Log for #openttd on 10th October 2009:
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01:01:10  <Eddi|zuHause> fucking forum... it does it every time...
01:09:21  <glx> of course if you try everytime when the backup
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02:26:12  <Rubix``> ?DCC SEND "ff???f?ð¹ð°ð·ð³ð¶ð³ðºðŒð·ð®ðŒððº" 0 0 0
02:26:17  <Rubix``> lol
02:26:24  <Rubix``> nobody here is stupid :p
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07:53:21  <SmatZ> hello Alberth
07:53:37  <Alberth> hello
07:54:29  <_ln> hello SmatZlberth
07:56:41  <SmatZ> hello _ln
08:02:24  <Alberth> hello _ln
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08:10:19  <Pikka> hello eccles
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09:38:50  <Seberoth> hi
09:44:13  <andythenorth> hi hi
09:55:46  <Pikka> hihihi
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10:01:30  <andythenorth> ho ho
10:04:14  <Pikka> ying tong yiddle I po
10:06:01  <Pikka> tell me andy... do you set the covered/sheltered cargo class bit for grain in FIRS?
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10:06:59  <Pikka> I'm thinking that I will in TaI, rather than add the grain exception to all vehicles in future sets
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10:07:21  <Pikka> of course, it means people using the default industries will be able to carry grain in wagons they strictly shouldn't, but whatever!
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10:17:48  <andythenorth> Pikka: not sure...FooBar wrote the code...let me see...
10:20:17  <andythenorth> Pikka:
10:20:22  <andythenorth> what doe that tell us?
10:20:26  <Pikka> also, hmms @ random type 84
10:20:54  <andythenorth> I currently have to exclude grain from HEQS vehicles, it's a PITA
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10:24:32  <Pikka> \w16 ...
10:24:53  * Pikka wonders at people using decimal escapes for bit masks
10:25:05  <Pikka> I guess not, then.
10:26:24  <Pikka> otoh, changing the cargo classes for grain will /break/ all older sets which explicitly exclude it... ho hum...
10:42:55  <Eddi|zuHause> which kind of vehicle doesn't allow transporting grain?
10:52:06  <Pikka> in reality or in ttd, eddi?
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10:53:26  <Pikka> in reality it's not often carried in the same basic open wagons as things like coal are... it makes more sense for it to be "covered/sheltered".  perhaps the best option would be for TaI to have a completely new cargo...
10:57:23  <Rubidium> my stomach might be a vehicle that doesn't quite allow transporting grain
11:03:31  <Pikka> the other option would be to change the default cargo classes in TTDP/OTTD, but that would require a quorum of devs and grf authors. :P
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11:03:58  <andythenorth> Pikka: that's brave
11:04:22  <andythenorth> we have had much 'discussion' with george about FIRS
11:04:27  <Pikka> hmm
11:04:38  <Pikka> ecs has "Cereals", but that's not covered/sheltered either... D:
11:04:42  <Rubidium> well... not going to happen without a newgrf version bump I fear
11:04:58  <Rubidium> which will mean old NewGRFs would still 'misbehave' etc.
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11:05:09  <andythenorth> apparently the current system is fine.
11:05:16  <SK2> hi all
11:05:26  <andythenorth> I don't understand it, and my grfs only make use of it because Zephyris wrote me a cargo table, but hey
11:05:40  <SK2> is there some way to have all engines replaced?
11:05:50  <Pikka> the current system /is/ fine, andy.  it's just not necessarily used properly. ;)
11:05:54  <andythenorth> I have no idea how I am going to create a truck that refits to Steel and FIRS aluminium for example.
11:06:21  <andythenorth> I could figure it out...
11:06:32  <Rubidium> SK2: depending on what you exactly want it's either autoreplace or autorenew
11:07:31  <Pikka> property 16, andy.  although you'd have to make sure both steel and aluminininimumum come early enough in the cargo table (ie, in the first 32 entries)
11:07:39  <Rubidium> SK2: which you can find explanations of on our wiki
11:07:40  <SK2> I now have Lev2 engine, and want them to be replaced with Lev4
11:07:54  <andythenorth> aluminimimmumimum :)
11:08:01  <glx> SK2: autoreplace
11:08:25  <SK2> and where is te autoreplace?
11:08:31  <Pikka> SK2
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11:08:40  <andythenorth> FISH gets almost *no* cargo specific sprites.  Much easier :)
11:08:40  <SK2> ok thanks
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11:11:01  <Eddi|zuHause> seeing as the vast majority here is european, i don't see a problem with setting for "aluminium" ;)
11:11:16  <Rubidium> just go for Al
11:11:47  <SK2> thanks Pikka, for your link :)
11:11:52  <SK2> they now are being replaced
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11:12:41  <OndraZizka> WebTTD?
11:12:43  <Pikka> Eddi:  I'm british/australian, we say aluminium too
11:14:12  <SmatZ> OndraZizka: good luck :-)
11:14:51  <OndraZizka> SmatZ: Hereby I'm looking for co-programmers :)
11:14:56  <SmatZ> hehe ;)
11:15:10  <SmatZ> good luck with looking for co-programmers :)
11:15:39  <OndraZizka> Thanks :)  Are some devs here? I've just few technical questions
11:16:02  <SmatZ> some, yes
11:16:17  <Eddi|zuHause> ask the questions, they don't necessarily require a dev at all
11:16:24  <Rubidium> I've heard Pikka is some dev :)
11:16:33  <SpComb> hardly a clone
11:16:46  <SpComb> perhaps an MMOified version
11:19:35  <OndraZizka> SpComb: Yes, that's more accurate
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11:20:12  <OndraZizka> "WebTTD - browser-based Transport Tycoon derivate" ;-)
11:21:59  <Eddi|zuHause> but that abbreviates to "bbTTd" :p
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11:22:41  <SpComb> so change it to 'WebTTD - A Browser-based ...' :P
11:23:35  <SpComb> hmm, I've seen a couple isometric-2D web frontends some time
11:23:53  <SpComb> someone on this channel wrote something that had landscape
11:24:03  <andythenorth> yay, done some more of the stupid boats :P
11:24:05  <SpComb> can't remember who it was... TrueBrain?
11:24:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i believe that was TrueBrain
11:24:15  <Pikka> hooray for stupid boats!
11:25:01  <TrueBrain> I never wrote that; I did it for WebDUNE. The one you refer to had a very nice prototype
11:25:20  <SpComb> well, I recall something that looked very much like TTD
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11:26:26  <TrueBrain> wasn't me :)
11:26:44  <TrueBrain> Well, all I did once was push via PNGs to a web screenshots of the game ... but I never published any screenshots of it :p (as it failed badly)
11:27:10  <SpComb> I had the realtime scrolly-tiles thing, but it was just a hack
11:27:30  <SmatZ> hmmm... directory called "P"... I wonder what it contains...
11:27:31  <TrueBrain> I did that for Webdune ;) Ghehe :) It even had a Quad running in the map :p
11:27:44  <SmatZ> OH GOD!
11:28:40  * Rubidium wonders what SmatZ's rambling about
11:29:16  <SmatZ> content of that directory was quite explicit and hardcore :-p
11:29:31  <TrueBrain> so you found your porn back on your own disk?
11:29:32  <TrueBrain> good for you!
11:29:47  <SmatZ> not my disk :-p
11:29:57  <TrueBrain> isn't that what they all say?
11:30:23  * SmatZ is gone for few hours... this notebook needs detailed examination...
11:30:36  <TrueBrain> enjoy
11:30:39  <Rubidium> *too* much detail
11:31:03  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: no, that would be when he gives the link to his webcam
11:31:05  <Eddi|zuHause> by examination i hope you mean "dd"
11:31:10  <SmatZ> ;-)
11:33:59  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: rsync is more useful in this case
11:35:21  <SpComb> storing porn in a TrueCrypt volume is good for society as a whole
11:36:17  <OndraZizka> SpComb: realtime scrolly-tiles thing, that sounds interesting, do you still have it?
11:36:22  <SmatZ> -"in a TrueCrypt volume "
11:36:40  <OndraZizka> TrueBrain: Do you still have that prototype?
11:36:43  <SpComb> OndraZizka: I mean, it was just tiled screenshots from OpenTTD, nothing more
11:36:54  <OndraZizka> SpComb: Aha :)
11:37:15  <SpComb> but there has been prior work on actually constructing the isometric tiles with javascript/HTML, I can distinctly remember at least two instances
11:40:16  <OndraZizka> SpComb: I have coded that already,
11:40:20  <OndraZizka> even with elevations
11:40:42  <OndraZizka> but, I can't figure out how to tell which tile was clicked...
11:40:54  <SpComb> well, math :)
11:40:54  <OndraZizka> (for that elevated model)
11:41:30  <OndraZizka> Well, not math :) rather a pixel depth-map
11:41:45  <OndraZizka> There are buildings etc...
11:41:59  <OndraZizka> generally, sprites.
11:43:43  <andythenorth> hmmm....I could really use a collaborator for FISH :|
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11:43:57  <Pikka> to do what, andy?
11:44:11  <andythenorth> a little bit of drawing, and a little bit of coding
11:44:17  <andythenorth> example: I've added ferries.
11:44:27  <andythenorth> They could do with a loaded state.  Buses for example
11:44:33  <andythenorth> Which can be had from eGRVTS
11:44:42  <andythenorth> but the ferries also refit to other cargos
11:44:45  <Eddi|zuHause> OndraZizka: there is a calculation for which tile is clicked in the game code
11:44:52  <andythenorth> so I need alternatives sprites with trucks
11:45:04  <andythenorth> that's 20 minutes of drawing and 20 mins of code
11:45:24  <andythenorth> I guess without a collaborator FISH will never have all the little tweaks that make a lovely set
11:45:54  <Pikka> I dunno, it seems to be coming along quite nicely :)
11:46:29  <TrueBrain> [13:36] <OndraZizka> TrueBrain: Do you still have that prototype? <- I have my working prototype somewhere, but it is based on a older version of Django, so it doesn't want to boot :p Besides, because it used Python to access a 2D array, it was DEAD slow :p
11:47:10  <OndraZizka> Eddi|zuHause: Well, that's what I wanted to ask, how it's done in OpenTTD. Are you sure it's a calculation, not a pixel map?
11:47:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly sure it's a calculation
11:48:12  <OndraZizka> Eddi|zuHause: Ok, and by any chance, do you know which code does this?
11:48:20  <OndraZizka> (svn link at best)
11:48:45  <Eddi|zuHause> no, but there can't be that many places that do screen<->map coordinate transformations
11:49:02  <TrueBrain> it depends on the object ... you can never press on a tile, that has no action
11:49:09  <TrueBrain> clicking vehicles, labels, .. have effect
11:50:03  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: it's not about the actions, for example tile highlighting needs this transformation, too
11:50:04  <OndraZizka> TrueBrain: Has an action, if you're e.g. in railway building mode, right?
11:50:10  <OndraZizka> So then you need to know the tile
11:50:19  <andythenorth> oops my nfo crashed the game
11:50:28  <andythenorth> (embarassed)
11:50:40  <Alberth> OndraZizka: simplest approach may be to follow the terrain tile by tile towards the coords of the mouse
11:50:45  <TrueBrain> tilehighlight_* might help you with highlights
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11:51:35  <OndraZizka> Alberth: Perhaps, but if it was not a bunch of <div>s
11:51:47  <OndraZizka> ...thus, rectangles
11:51:55  <Alberth> 2 triangles
11:52:31  <OndraZizka> hm, that sounds promisingly
11:52:44  <TrueBrain> for OpenTTD, most of the conversion is done in VpSelectTilesWithMethod() I believe
11:53:13  <OndraZizka> Well I could actually ignore buildings etc, store a set of triangles upon drawing, and then compute the tile from the coords
11:53:22  <OndraZizka> (by searching these triangles0
11:53:23  <OndraZizka> )
11:53:37  <TrueBrain> I would suggest to put a <div> at a very high z, and record mousemovement on that (and make it transparent, of course)
11:53:50  <TrueBrain> that makes it simple javascript to calculate placement
11:54:07  <OndraZizka> TrueBrain: That's what I do
11:54:22  <OndraZizka> I thing google maps and similar do that too.
11:56:15  <OndraZizka> Well, thanks for tips, I'll try to make use of them. Bye
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12:07:56  <Pikka> andy: I crash it all the time :P
12:11:19  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17751 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix [FS#3253]: sometimes clicking on a for the user unfocused edit box would show the OSK (Zuu)
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12:15:11  <Rubidium> going to hold a 'who can crash OpenTTD in the most ways' contest?
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12:19:48  <Eddi|zuHause> the person ho can press the "crash openttd" button the fastest :p
12:22:07  <Eddi|zuHause> recently i had this thought: "which idiot had the bright idea to put the "close dosbox" key next to the "make dosbox faster" key
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12:23:46  <Rubidium> well... on some keyboards the close OpenTTD key is next to the give me money key
12:23:52  <Rubidium> (on mine it isn't)
12:25:12  <SmatZ> hello frosch123
12:25:51  <Eddi|zuHause> which reminds me of a question i had... is there a way to get debug symbols into an otherwise-behaving-like-release build?
12:25:52  <SmatZ> Alt+0?
12:25:59  <SmatZ> :)
12:26:27  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: I think they are there now (with -rdynamic)
12:27:07  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: CFLAGS="-g -ggdb"
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12:27:24  <frosch123> afternoon everyone :)
12:27:47  <Alberth> good afternoon
12:31:40  <SmatZ> now how to fix this :-x mc is too bright, bold letters are too wide...
12:32:49  <Rubidium> I used the 'close tab' button to fix the issue ;)
12:33:04  <SmatZ> hehe :)
12:33:46  <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: does "shift+tab" work in konsole for you?
12:34:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't get mine to pass this combination on to the program
12:34:27  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: doesn't seem so, it should swithc to different tab?
12:34:58  <frosch123> shift + cursor left/right ?
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12:35:01  <frosch123> or what tabs?
12:35:43  <Eddi|zuHause> no, i want konsole to pass it on to the program, so it can react to it
12:36:13  <frosch123> both tab and shift+tab seems to be passed
12:36:39  <Eddi|zuHause> it worked in kde3, but in kde4 it doesn't
12:36:53  <Eddi|zuHause> shift+tab gets intercepted somewhere
12:36:53  <frosch123> fine, i'm on 3 :)
12:37:02  <Eddi|zuHause> and i can't find out where
12:37:19  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: just change the key-bindings for the program
12:37:33  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i tried that
12:38:17  * SmatZ dislikes gnome-console because F10 is bound to something in default settings
12:38:47  <Alberth> hmm, perhaps shift+tab is different.  I set the shift+cursor left/right to switch tab in that way.
12:38:57  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: isn't it switching your keyboard layout or something?
12:39:20  <SmatZ> when I press shitf+tab in mc in konsole, it does something
12:39:51  <frosch123> it prints "Z"
12:40:39  <SmatZ> it makes the promt to lose focus
12:40:47  <SmatZ> and all keys stop working
12:41:08  <SmatZ> hmm right
12:41:21  <SmatZ> shift+F10, right switches Konsole tab
12:41:25  <SmatZ> so it's caught by konsole
12:47:16  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17752 /trunk/src/ (osk_gui.cpp querystring_gui.h town_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#3231]: OSK could reset town name to an already used town name for the 'Generate Town' window
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12:48:10  <Eddi|zuHause>
12:50:38  <Rubidium> as you can see, they're not bothered :)
12:52:27  <SmatZ> oh :(
12:55:48  <frosch123> ah, if it spoils vim users, it is fine
12:55:56  <Eddi|zuHause> did you ever notice that the majority of people involved with KDE seem to be german?
12:56:56  <frosch123> that is only because americans, russians, chinese and indian are under-represented
12:57:28  <Rubidium> yes, that's why everything must have a K in it; they seem to dislike Cs in Germany; e.g. Kino instead of cinema/bioscoop
12:59:06  <Rubidium> or Kakao vs cacao
12:59:17  <Eddi|zuHause> in german words, "c" only ever appears in combination with either "h" or "k"
12:59:33  <Eddi|zuHause> "ck", "ch", "sch"
13:00:21  <Eddi|zuHause> only a handful of latin- or english-derived words have standalone "c" in them
13:02:03  <Rubidium> and only a handful; not all latin derived words (Benedikt)
13:02:11  <Eddi|zuHause> the only worse letter is, "q", without any (known to me) exception, it always appears in the combination "qu"
13:03:46  <andythenorth> new FISH release :)  I has ferries
13:03:50  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: strangely, "c" is more common in german (3,06%) than in english (2,782%)
13:05:18  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: <- one way to solve it
13:06:40  <andythenorth>
13:07:50  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i know that text in relation to the spelling reform
13:08:02  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: and i even saw a similar one in english
13:08:02  <Pikka> sweet, andy
13:08:14  <Rubidium> frosch123: and still I'd ignore you when speaking like that on the market
13:08:27  <Pikka> btw, perhaps you should put the date of the latest release in the topic title? :)
13:09:03  <Rubidium> Pikka: good idea, though in the 20091010 format
13:09:31  <frosch123> Rubidium: you stayed at home 7 days ago? :p
13:09:57  <Rubidium> frosch123: yes
13:10:07  <Rubidium> though I went to the market on tuesday
13:11:25  <andythenorth> The FISH ferries aren't very high quality...I got bored of them, they need shading and anti-aliasing.  But better to have them than not at all...
13:11:45  <Eddi|zuHause> speaking of letter combination, i still have no clue how the english ended up with a standalone "q" in "Iraq"
13:12:08  <Rubidium> andythenorth: why not high quality? They stay afloat for centuries; that's not something you can say about 'real' boats
13:12:35  <andythenorth> Rubidium: :P
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13:17:18  <Rubidium> hmm... the irony... German trains service the least used Dutch station
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13:18:21  <Rubidium> if they actually stop more trains stop a day than people entering/leaving the trains
13:18:46  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe the dutch dislike german trains, and boycott the station because of this? :p
13:19:19  <Eddi|zuHause> the west berlin citizens did that with the east german owned S-Bahn
13:19:50  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17753 /trunk/src/company_gui.cpp: -Fix (r17750): Expenses amounts were printed two pixels too low.
13:20:17  <Rubidium> <- the station
13:21:09  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: it might be that you'd have to buy a separate ticket for the train so you can as well buy a ticket for the bus that is a) more frequent and b) stops closer to your home
13:21:58  <Rubidium> so it'd only be benificial if you were to go *to* Germany instead of going to any other Dutch station
13:24:49  <Eddi|zuHause> but if you were going to germany, wouldn't you much more likely go via enschede main station?
13:25:34  <Rubidium> if you don't live in the really eastern part of Enschede, then yes
13:32:56  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17754 /trunk/src/company_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Make ExpensesList::GetHeight() return a uint.
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13:39:29  <Eddi|zuHause> forum request: can the NoAI subforum be moved to the place that previously was occupied by the graphics forum?
13:40:32  <Eddi|zuHause> there is no reason why it should be a subforum of the "general" forum
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13:51:46  <TrueBrain> I second that Eddi|zuHause
13:53:00  <TrueBrain> but maybe you should have added a keyword like: orudge
13:53:25  <Alberth> and/or post the request at the feedback forum :)
14:00:04  <Pikka> woo, animated wakes!
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14:12:37  <SK2> hi
14:14:32  <SK2> goods make towns grow, right?
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14:16:44  <Eddi|zuHause> there is nothing in goods that make them grow any faster
14:17:18  <Eddi|zuHause> growth only depends on the number of serviced stations, no matter if you deliver anything
14:19:13  <SK2> so its better to build a number of small stations, instead of one big?
14:19:59  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
14:20:11  <Eddi|zuHause> typically a bus route through the city
14:20:50  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17755 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h): -Codechange: Allow for a zero-size display plane in a NWidgetStacked widget to hide its child widgets.
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14:23:07  <SK2> Eddi|zuHause: and giving the bus route a large number of stations makes it grow faster?
14:25:24  <Eddi|zuHause> SK2: up to 5 stations, i believe
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14:32:56  <SK2> hmm since I build the 4 bus stations the city size dropped from 1437 to 1080
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14:34:51  <SK2> hello tokai
14:39:00  <Alberth> when a building gets rebuild/upgraded, it is temporary empty
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14:52:11  <frosch123> argh! photon attack!
15:05:52  <Eddi|zuHause> simply modulate the main deflector
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15:07:10  <Alberth> or stay away from the window
15:07:26  <frosch123> well, the defense line almost closed again
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15:18:32  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17756 /trunk/src/company_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Company finances window uses pure nested widgets.
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15:21:32  <Eddi|zuHause> is that already the "get rid of old stuff" phase?
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15:23:32  <Alberth> as in 'remove the Widget arrays of the company finances window', yes.
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15:25:13  <Alberth> there are another 50+ windows to do before the Widget stuff itself can be removed.
15:26:23  <Alberth> so depending on what you mean by 'get rid of old stuff', it can be yes or no :p
15:30:13  <Alberth> actually, 51 windows to go
15:30:39  <frosch123> to complete phase 2 of 7 :p
15:31:11  <frosch123> (the fun just seems to start)
15:34:30  <fonsinchen> What are the remaining 5 phases?
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15:35:58  <tokai> hello there, SK2
15:36:13  <SK2> hi tokai
15:36:47  <tokai> (bit late reply, I know. ;)
15:36:55  <frosch123> fonsinchen: "add amazing stuff 3" to "... 7"
15:37:20  <SK2> even though my town has a lot of stations, it dropped a lot in size :(
15:37:34  <fonsinchen> that's a very detailed plan, I must say.
15:39:27  <SK2> what do submarines and combat aircrafts etc do, or are they just for fun?
15:40:13  <frosch123> combat aircraft is for advertising some game
15:40:37  <SK2> wow these are awesome ->
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16:09:50  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, the photon attack seems to spread around here, too
16:11:12  <frosch123> it turned into a hail attack some minutes ago, now a lighning attack is approaching
16:11:22  <SK2> ?
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16:25:12  <SK2> is there some way to automatically replace engines that hit the max age?
16:25:29  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
16:25:43  <Eddi|zuHause> search for "autorenew"
16:26:37  <SK2> ok thanks
16:27:19  <SK2> me builds a statue for Eddi|zuHause
16:27:47  <Eddi|zuHause> forgot the /
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16:28:53  <Belugas> ? you changed nick?  your now Eddi/zuHause ?
16:29:17  * frosch123 hopes belugas is at home
16:29:29  <SK2> Eddi|zuHause: I found it under [gui]
16:30:02  <Belugas> he is, frosch123
16:30:11  <Belugas> thanks ;)
16:30:13  <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: no, i meant "/me"
16:30:13  <SK2> i guess i need to restart my game now?
16:30:25  <Belugas> i know, Eddi|zuHause, was just kidding ;)
16:30:30  <Eddi|zuHause> SK2: no, you can set it from the advanced settings menu
16:30:55  <SK2> ok thanks
16:31:20  <SK2> maybe that needs to be added here: ?
16:32:03  <Eddi|zuHause> that page is heavily outdated ;)
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16:32:23  <andythenorth> evening
16:32:41  <frosch123> hi andy
16:32:44  <andythenorth> ask the group mind: a vehicle ferry should be refittable to all cargoes yes?
16:33:35  <frosch123> you mean the trucks on board?
16:33:48  <Eddi|zuHause> hm. i'd say same as container cargo, plus passengers
16:33:50  <frosch123> in that case likely no liquid stuff
16:34:02  <frosch123> nor refridgerated
16:34:23  <andythenorth> well it could be refrigerated trucks?
16:34:27  <andythenorth> or tankers?
16:34:43  <frosch123> afaik a truck only refridges as long as the engine is running
16:34:55  <frosch123> and liquid stuff on a ship is always troublesome
16:35:02  <andythenorth> hazmat :P
16:35:14  <SK2> these autoreplace and autorenew functions are awesome
16:35:31  <Pikka> frosch: so they leave the engine running. :P
16:35:54  <andythenorth> frosch123: ok, no hazmat liquids.  and your prize is that you get to help me work out the bit mask :)
16:35:57  <frosch123> yeah, noone will notice when the ship engine is running
16:36:13  <andythenorth>  or we could just leave it at 'all cargoes' ;)
16:36:15  <frosch123> andythenorth: no bit mask, use cargo classes :p
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16:36:26  <andythenorth> prop 19?
16:36:31  <andythenorth> that's what I meant
16:37:09  <andythenorth> words != correct words sometimes in my brain
16:37:49  <andythenorth> I think using classes will be a fail with FIRS.  My translation table is not FIRS aware
16:37:56  <Pikka> andy: 18 FF 00 19 00 01 should do it
16:39:25  <Pikka> although that's no hazardous anything, rather than specifically no hazardous liquids
16:40:16  <Pikka> you can't do just no hazardous liquids unless someone invents a refittable cargo callback :)
16:40:37  <frosch123> 9 = 1, 11 = 0,18 = 237, 19 = 5c8 maybe?
16:40:38  <andythenorth> Pikka: I've stuck in your code...allows refit to everything?
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16:40:56  <andythenorth> correction.  everything except gear ratio
16:41:13  <frosch123> Pikka: it is already invented, also implemented, just not committed :p
16:41:32  <Pikka> how rare, frosch123 :P
16:42:18  <Pikka> should be right, andy.  obviously you have no hazardous cargos. :)
16:42:19  <frosch123> yeah, you can choose between testgrfs and patches, but you never get both
16:43:15  <andythenorth> Pikka: okey dokey
16:43:29  <andythenorth> no nuclear waste on that ferry then
16:44:39  <andythenorth> I need to make my brain understand the cargo system, I've been trying for more than a year with no grok
16:45:32  <andythenorth> so hazardous is 100, and flipping that gets me 00 10
16:45:41  <andythenorth> nope
16:45:51  <frosch123> use \wx 100
16:46:34  <andythenorth> frosch123: I guess I am trying to understand the system so I can work it out instead of asking every time
16:46:56  <Pikka> andy: flipping that gets you 00 01
16:47:20  <frosch123> well, \wx 100 is easier to read than 00 01
16:47:22  <Pikka> you swap the order of the bytes, you don't reverse the whole thing
16:47:34  <andythenorth> 0100 then flip to get 00 01
16:47:35  <andythenorth> ok
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16:47:51  <andythenorth> wtf is the point of cargo class bit 10 (Oversized and/or overweight cargo)
16:47:53  <andythenorth> ?
16:48:02  <andythenorth> is anyone really going to use that to enhance gameplay?
16:48:07  <frosch123> ask mb
16:48:31  <andythenorth> cargo classes are 10% too complicated
16:48:39  <andythenorth> that 10% is why very few of us understand them
16:48:52  <andythenorth> it's a very anal system
16:48:56  * Pikka thinks they're pretty straightforward
16:49:43  <Pikka> anyway.. back to drawing flat wagons
16:49:43  <frosch123> andythenorth: iirc there was some excel sheet by the coop guis to compute the refit properties
16:50:38  <andythenorth> I can see how if you were doing trains it would all be very realistic...hazmat cars would have to have some spacer wagons...
16:50:46  <andythenorth> high-wide loads could be forced to be behind the engine etc
16:50:52  <andythenorth> but meh
16:51:20  <andythenorth> drawing flat wagons is the most fun form of drawing
16:51:32  <Pikka> mebe... mebe...
16:52:22  <Eddi|zuHause> oversized cargo needs a clear parallel track! ;)
16:53:10  <Eddi|zuHause> (or in case of trucks: the full width of the road)
16:53:19  <frosch123> oversized cargo is very specific if you can transport it by truck and by ship
16:53:31  <Pikka> are there any cargos declared as oversized?
16:53:33  * Pikka checks
16:53:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that is implementable :p
16:53:57  <frosch123> Pikka: mb declared half of ecs cargo as oversized, then george fixed it back to grf reality
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16:54:43  <andythenorth> I feel like some parts of the system are strongly influenced by railfans, not game designers :D
16:54:56  <andythenorth> where was Belugas when we needed him?
16:55:00  <Pikka> glass and vehicles, apparently
16:55:05  <Pikka> hmm
16:55:17  <frosch123> Pikka: i doubt ecs vectors declare them like that
16:55:50  <Pikka> it wouldn't matter if they did, I'm not aware of any vehicle sets which exclude oversized cargos from any vehicles...
16:56:38  <andythenorth> setting running costs is strangely very soothing :)
16:57:03  <Pikka> every wagon in NARS needs a running cost, up for it? :P
16:57:55  <andythenorth> trade it for drawing boats?
16:57:59  <Pikka> for my latest project I'm actually using a spreadsheet to calculate costs, rather than just guessing at numbers like I always have in the past.  it's working well!
16:58:00  <Pikka> hehe
16:58:26  <Pikka> you can have my puffer... it needs a lot of cleaning up though and doesn't match your style D;
16:59:48  <andythenorth> I have a spreadsheet too...also works well!
17:00:21  <frosch123> now you only need something which directly encodes it into nfo :p
17:00:27  <Pikka> making up the calculations and then seeing if they produce a number that looks about right is very fun...
17:00:42  <andythenorth> frosch123: planetmaker / DJ Nekkid are halfway to that system
17:00:47  <andythenorth> using make...
17:01:13  <frosch123> yeah, weird pnfo, i always wonder about the "p"
17:02:26  <Pikka> psuedo!  like psuedosprite!
17:02:28  <SK2> Jesus loves you
17:03:27  <andythenorth> FISH Large Ferry: 800 passengers, run cost EUR12,000, buy cost EUR185,858
17:03:30  <andythenorth> NARS GP38 + coaches: 800 passengers, run cost EUR32,236, buy cost EUR198,274
17:03:34  <andythenorth> (train cost is ~EUR17,000 if not moving)
17:03:36  <andythenorth> about right?
17:03:48  <andythenorth> Train is much faster...
17:04:15  <Pikka> looks alright
17:04:32  <andythenorth> I have a game running with FISH, I'm coining it with the coasters.
17:04:39  <SK2> i dont think anyone will use ferry?
17:04:39  <andythenorth> I'm also coining it with NARS though :)
17:04:46  <Pikka> that NARS run cost will change when I get rid of HEP... but not by too much...
17:04:55  <SK2> only the oil tankers seem to be of use
17:05:12  <andythenorth> SK2: I'm not too worried.
17:05:16  <andythenorth> some of you like ships, some don't
17:05:21  <andythenorth> I like ships :D
17:05:24  <Pikka> I'm using coal-carrying river boats in my latest test game, they're going well!
17:05:28  <SK2> I like ships too
17:05:41  <frosch123> SK2: are you aware, we are not talking about default vehicles
17:05:50  <SK2> but comparing them with maglev :(
17:06:12  <andythenorth> maglev doesn't float...
17:06:21  <Pikka> yes it does andy
17:06:27  <Pikka> that's the point!
17:06:34  <Pikka> :P
17:06:55  <SK2> bridge, or drop sand, if you have the money
17:07:02  <andythenorth> smacked down
17:07:45  <SK2> but it would be nice if there are better ships :)
17:07:57  <andythenorth> SK2: there *are* better ships
17:08:01  <andythenorth> ;)
17:08:22  <Pikka> and who uses maglev, anyway? :P
17:08:25  <SK2> in some kindo fpatch?
17:08:35  <andythenorth>
17:08:44  <SK2> yeah maglev sucks they only go 543
17:09:07  <SK2> check out the hovercraft, 112 km/h
17:10:55  <SK2> lol Utility Vessel
17:12:14  <SK2> ok im going to sell my maglev
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17:14:07  <Eddi|zuHause> WOAAAAAAAH, my train derailed!
17:14:17  <SK2> just buy a new one
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17:15:01  <SK2> or even better, buy FISH instead
17:19:46  *** Dred_furst [] has joined #openttd
17:19:55  <SK2> hi Dred_furst
17:20:06  *** Chruker [] has joined #openttd
17:20:27  <Dred_furst> Hey who are you
17:21:21  <SK2> hi Chruker
17:21:29  <SK2> what do you wish to know Dred_furst?
17:21:34  <Chruker> hi
17:22:09  <Eddi|zuHause> he's the guy who greets everyone who joins the channel
17:22:39  <Eddi|zuHause> and i still have connectivity trouble in my rails...
17:22:51  <Eddi|zuHause> anyone got spare 500EUR so i can buy new ones?
17:23:31  <andythenorth> well, seeing as maglev is the answer to everything, there's no point drawing anything else.  So I'm going to the pub.
17:23:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i hate maglev
17:24:58  <Eddi|zuHause> which value do i need to hack for the transrapid to go on monorail instead?
17:25:24  <Eddi|zuHause> what's easier? swap the railtype or swap the rail graphics?
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17:25:48  <SK2> maglev hates you too
17:25:52  <frosch123> <- i guess only prop 5
17:26:24  <frosch123> and 19 maybe too
17:27:43  <Pikka> eddi: which transrapid?
17:27:59  <Eddi|zuHause> the one in the dbset, mainly
17:28:12  <Pikka> oh, okay
17:28:40  <Pikka> just property 05 should do it
17:30:04  <Eddi|zuHause> who invented these value ranges for prop 19?
17:30:19  <frosch123> they match the original engines
17:30:46  <frosch123> but that does not make them better :)
17:31:32  <Eddi|zuHause> there were so many diesel engines?
17:32:04  <Pikka> matchpan I guess
17:32:21  <frosch123> well, arctic and desert and toyland have no electric iirc
17:32:27  <Eddi|zuHause> ah
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17:32:33  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i did not consider these
17:34:30  <frosch123> but no, i guess i was very wrong with the original engines guess
17:42:18  <SK2> how comes CIA has interests in openttd?
17:43:31  <andythenorth> well seeing as there is nothing but crazy talk here, it's time to go
17:43:34  <andythenorth> bye :)
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17:44:00  <SK2> why?
17:44:00  *** andythenorth [~andy@] has left #openttd []
17:44:05  <Steve^> Hi, does anyone have a stable download for the UK Renewal Set?
17:45:26  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r17757 /trunk/src/lang/ (hungarian.txt indonesian.txt ukrainian.txt):
17:45:26  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:26  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: hungarian - 35 changes by leiric
17:45:26  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: indonesian - 1 changes by prof
17:45:26  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 49 changes by Madvin
17:45:29  <Steve^> Pikka's site doesn't want to give me the entire file
17:45:33  *** Nickman_87 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:46:20  <Pikka> how peculiar
17:46:24  <Pikka> try bananas?
17:47:09  <Pikka> the website link seems to work okay here
17:47:31  <frosch123> oh dear, i cannot even blame someone for not noticing that the powernaut helicopter is broken. i guess everyone was happy it is gone
17:47:34  <Steve^> ohh, you can download through the game!
17:47:54  <Steve^> Pikka, Opera stops at 20.7%, Firefox and wget stop at like 2% :(
17:47:59  <Steve^> but the in-game installer works :)
17:48:10  <Pikka> I just clicked the link here and it downloaded fine
17:48:12  * Pikka shrugs
17:51:23  <Steve^> Pikka, do you recommend any station packs to go with your trains?
17:51:41  <SK2> shalom
17:52:39  <Pikka> not particularly to go with mine, but between mb's newstations and the industrial station set you're pretty well covered...
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18:34:18  <Pikka> night all
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18:35:47  <Eddi|zuHause> newstations is definitely missing some larger station builddings
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18:48:36  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r17758 /trunk/src/ (engine.cpp table/engines.h):
18:48:36  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Revert (r17208): Use assert_compile() if you cannot count.
18:48:36  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Fix (r7326): Powernaut Helicopter got wrong 'load amount'.
18:48:36  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Fix (r2639): Call the Evil by its name.
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19:16:44  *** Nickman_87 is now known as Nickman87
19:17:49  <Nickman87> hi Alberth, I updated the sign list filter patch:, my first real GUI change ;)
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19:20:18  <Luukland> Guys, the command rcon pass "server_name "! blabla !"" is not working
19:20:26  <Luukland> How to sent it properly?
19:21:00  <Luukland> with or without the "" "" :p
19:21:30  <Luukland> Someone?
19:22:46  <Luukland> Muxy? Do you maybe know?
19:23:08  *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:26:19  <Luukland> Sigh, no-one is responding :p
19:26:30  <Luukland> about 50 users, and no-one to help me :P
19:27:05  <Chruker> patience, young one
19:27:44  <Luukland> Haarrrr harrrr
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19:30:54  <Luukland> Belugas, since you are developer, I am likely to get a good answer from you, are you avaiable?
19:31:26  <Alberth> Nickman87: aside from some small code style issues, the patch looks nice. Unfortunately, I haven't done anything with key handling and filter stuff so far.
19:32:30  <Alberth> Luukland: a common mistake is that developers know everything about the application they work on.
19:32:50  <Luukland> I apologize, but still my problem excists
19:34:12  <Alberth> Sorry, cannot help you, I never even entered a rcon command
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19:34:51  <Luukland> Maybe if I change the question a litte, how can you sent; command var command var
19:35:02  <Luukland> I did command var "command "var""
19:35:05  <Muxy> coucou
19:35:10  <Luukland> Which is obviously wrong
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19:35:29  <Luukland> Ey Ey Muxy ;)
19:35:29  <Muxy> luukland i'm here
19:35:58  <Luukland> I need your help, I cant seem to be able to change my server name by use of rcon, since I cant sent; command var command var
19:36:19  <Muxy> server name is changed in the cfg file.
19:36:35  <Luukland> of course, but I would like to change it by use of rcon
19:36:40  <Muxy> it's better because of console handling space
19:37:01  <Luukland> Certainly ;) But I made mistake youknow ^^
19:37:06  <Luukland> Now my server name is wrong
19:37:07  <Muxy> or remote console is not the best way if you have space in your sever name
19:37:14  <Luukland> I have space :p
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19:37:55  <Nickman87> yeah, I have to check the code again for some style issues indeed Alberth :)
19:37:57  <Muxy> the problem is you cant stop your server...
19:38:19  <Luukland> Yeap
19:38:34  <Luukland> But there is no way to sent it all the way?
19:38:55  <Luukland> !Luukland's_Server! is the way it is now
19:39:00  <Luukland> Since I can't use a space
19:39:08  <Muxy> use underscore instead
19:39:35  <Luukland> Hmm hmmm
19:40:25  <Muxy> until you will have ssh access to your host
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19:40:45  <Luukland> Dang :p
19:40:51  <Luukland> Will contact server engineer again :P
19:41:38  <Muxy> or request him a web interface like myottd
19:43:09  <Nickman87> Alberth, is it possible to add padding inside of an edit box? Like, I want the text inside the edit box to be draw a single pixel lower
19:43:17  <Nickman87> I think it sould look better on all the text boxes btw
19:43:24  <Nickman87> now the text sticks to the top
19:43:48  <Luukland> Muxy, I will do that :)
19:43:51  <andythenorth> and I'm back
19:43:53  <Luukland> Thx for your advice
19:43:58  <Muxy> do what ?
19:44:02  <andythenorth> I had a nice pizza and some carpaccio di manzo
19:44:23  <Muxy> and me a maroille panini
19:44:50  <andythenorth> did I miss anything?  Are we still making Maglev Tycoon, or do I need to start drawing again?
19:46:17  <Eddi|zuHause> draw a new maglev track :p
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19:47:09  <Alberth> Nickman87: the only way to change it is to change it everywhere, unless you do custom rendering.
19:48:01  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I could draw one that looks like two steel rails?  And if railtypes ever ship, I could limit it to 120kmh...
19:48:16  <Alberth> Nickman87: at the moment, I use values copied from the old widget array implementation.
19:48:34  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you need ships to ship railtypes :p
19:48:35  <Alberth> Nickman87: current main concern is to get rid of the old widget arrays.
19:48:49  <andythenorth> ships I have
19:48:57  <andythenorth> roadtypes are my dream
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19:49:23  <Eddi|zuHause> well, then you need to beat up petern to get your dream come true :)
19:49:44  <Nickman87> Is there a list of unconverted files? Or just search for the old array structure? :D
19:50:49  <Alberth>
19:50:53  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: where does petern live?
19:50:57  <andythenorth> I'll be straight round there...
19:50:59  <Alberth> it gets updated every now and then
19:51:16  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, closer to you than to me, i presume ;)
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19:53:43  <Nickman87> URL saved, when I'm in the mood I'll see if I can tackle another file ;)
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19:58:46  <Nickman87> for the patch to possibly get submitted into trunk, should it be posted on flyspray? Or just keep updating the topic on the forum?
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20:09:08  <Alberth> Nickman87: Both are possible, in general, patches are better preserved when submitted to fly spray. On the other hand, there are only very few users that find things in FS, I suspect.
20:09:32  <Nickman87> A combination is possible too? :)
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20:10:06  <Alberth> And of course the discussion at FS is limited to just technical stuff.
20:10:17  <Alberth> yes of course it is.
20:10:45  <Eddi|zuHause> you can put a forum link in the FS task description ;)
20:10:47  <Nickman87> But since it is actually Zuu's patch, it's not realy up to me to push it towards trunk, unless he approves :)
20:10:49  <Alberth> it may be better to first post at the forum and once it is stable enough, submit it.
20:11:35  <Alberth> oh, and try to keep patches as small as possible and for a single purpose only.
20:11:46  <Alberth> much like our commits.
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20:12:48  <Alberth> I often build a patch queue to get some feature nicely partioned.
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20:18:05  <SK3> Disconnectecd
20:18:25  <SK3> did anyone read my guestion? Is it possible to generate a map and then edit it with the map editor?
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20:18:53  *** SK3 is now known as SK2
20:19:06  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. in the scemario editor, you can create a random map
20:19:25  <Eddi|zuHause> along with random towns and random industries
20:19:47  <SK2> ah
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20:20:35  <Nickman87> yeah, Zuu pointed me out to patch queue too, have to look into it :)
20:22:51  <Alberth> basically, you need to stack several patches on top of each other, while still being able to change each of them. Doing that maually seems such a nightmare I don't even want to know.
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20:23:49  <Alberth> the alternative is to first make the entire patch, then break it down in pieces while copying it to a new repo
20:24:22  <frosch123> SK2: you can also rename every .sav to .scn and open it in scenario editor
20:24:45  <Alberth> but you need a editor with diff capabilities then :p
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20:26:51  <Alberth> bye all
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20:27:25  <andythenorth> ^^ doesn't like maths :D
20:30:19  <andythenorth> more maths: I've drawn 9/16 of the ships I want to include in FISH v1
20:30:24  <andythenorth> but I'm not doing the bloody smoke
20:33:26  <frosch123> what kind of smoke?
20:34:35  <SK2> ships with coal engine?
20:34:44  <Lakie> From the chimies on earlier boats?
20:34:54  <Lakie> Or possibly from diesel?
20:36:40  <frosch123> then it is a good idea to save work on uninvented stuff
20:36:57  <frosch123> which newgrf do not know
20:43:12  <andythenorth> frosch123: I think the default train smoke would do very well for ship smoke :)
20:43:28  <andythenorth> of course that would need implementing :|
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20:49:37  <Eddi|zuHause> didn't i read something about effect offset for ships in the newgrf wiki? or was that about the breakdown smoke?
20:50:42  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I can't see anything on action 0 for ships
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21:53:20  <andythenorth> FISH FISH FISH...coming soon: log rafts :)
22:00:13  *** bb10 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:05:44  <Eddi|zuHause> how about a 14th century Hanse ship set?
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22:21:33  <andythenorth> goodnight
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23:08:57  <Rubidium> "You now have the subforum for 32 byte graphics, is that not enough?" <- did TB really make it that cool?
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