Log for #openttd on 17th October 2009:
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07:04:56  <andythenorth> morning
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07:15:21  <Terkhen> good morning
07:20:04  <andythenorth> morning
07:21:54  <andythenorth> Are cargo subtype texts useful?
07:22:14  <andythenorth> Do they add to gameplay, or are they just a bit too much detail?
07:22:38  <andythenorth> For example, 'Engineering Supplies (Cement)', 'Goods (Cars)'
07:24:21  <Rhamphoryncus> Off hand, if goods are really cars then why not just say cars?
07:25:11  <andythenorth> Because they aren't cars, they're goods?
07:25:24  <Rhamphoryncus> Then the subtext is wrong and irrelevant
07:25:36  <andythenorth> (There are max 32 cargos available, so we have to make some allowances)
07:26:07  <andythenorth> I worry too that it confuses players
07:26:51  <andythenorth> "Can I ship Engineering Supplies (Cement) in any old vehicle that refits to ES, or do I need one that refits to Engineering Supplies (Cement)?"
07:27:00  <Rhamphoryncus> yeah
07:27:11  <andythenorth> ^^ Is the kind of thing that I think would go through players minds
07:27:12  <Rhamphoryncus> And actually, I'd expect that to be Construction Supplies
07:27:26  <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: again, stuck with the 32 cargo limit ;)
07:27:34  <andythenorth> Certain compromises have been made
07:27:49  <Rhamphoryncus> I'm not saying to add another category.  I'm saying that engineering supplies is misnamed ;)
07:28:47  <Rhamphoryncus> What engineering supplies brings to mind has more to do with architecture and design
07:30:39  <andythenorth> Well in FIRS it covers everything from cement to mining trucks, it's a broad composite cargo
07:30:45  <andythenorth> ;)
07:31:32  <Rhamphoryncus> again I'd associate that with construction equipment.. but then, I'm not an engineer
07:31:48  <Rhamphoryncus> And it could be a difference in language
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07:36:24  <andythenorth> @seen frosch123
07:36:24  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: frosch123 was last seen in #openttd 9 hours, 39 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <frosch123> night
07:36:37  <andythenorth> ^^ must be time for him to get up and come to play here
07:36:43  <andythenorth> I went to sleep when he did...
07:36:47  <andythenorth> and I'm coding again :)
07:37:01  <andythenorth> plus, I HAVE IMPORTANT NFO QUESTIONS DAMMIT :P
07:45:32  <Alberth> hmm, counting is not one of the strong points of my package manager :p
07:46:17  <Alberth> kpackagekit thinks I have 1608 updates, while yum only has 49 :)
07:48:12  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17780 /trunk/src/autoreplace_gui.cpp: -Codechange: A bit more code style in the autoreplace window.
07:58:22  <planetmaker> moin
07:58:31  <planetmaker> [09:21]	<andythenorth>	Are cargo subtype texts useful? <-- imo they add to the atmosphere. yes
07:58:47  <andythenorth> planetmaker: what about the points above about confusing players?
07:59:37  <planetmaker> if provided in the way as I know them "Engineering supplies (cement)" etc I personally don't consider it too confusing
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07:59:43  <planetmaker> but just my personal 2ct ;-)
08:10:58  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17781 /trunk/src/autoreplace_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Remove local variable 'selected_group' from autoreplace window.
08:12:51  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17782 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3270]: animation wasn't removed from station tiles when keeping the rail during removal
08:14:51  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17783 /trunk/src/autoreplace_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Remove local pointer variable 'widget' from autoreplace window.
08:16:52  * andythenorth still doesn't understand how to end a callback chain correctly
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08:19:07  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17784 /trunk/src/autoreplace_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Replace 'i' with 'side' when side is intended in the autoreplace window.
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08:54:38  <boekabart> moggel
08:54:45  * boekabart can't believe he just said that
09:00:06  <TrueBrain> and I am doing my best to ignore it:p
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10:10:52  <andythenorth> FIRS FIRS FIRS
10:11:07  <andythenorth> Mines store up to 200 crates of Engineering Supplies...
10:11:13  <andythenorth> Forests seem like they should do a bit less
10:11:18  <andythenorth> maybe 120 crates?
10:11:29  <andythenorth> Mines use pit props and fuel and machinery and stuff
10:11:48  <andythenorth> Forests are a bit less demanding...
10:14:13  <andythenorth> ach screw it, I'll code it then try a game
10:14:13  <andythenorth> then I can tweak them later
10:18:35  <Coco-Banana-Man> how long will it need until it's empty again?
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10:48:32  <Drake2> hello
10:48:52  <Drake2> anybody here?
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10:54:55  <Drake2> hello...
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11:01:14  * andythenorth broke something
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11:24:39  <George> Belugas: Are you here?
11:25:32  <George> What about FS1862? You wrote that you were working on it. How far are you from finishing it?
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11:29:06  <Alberth> George: usually, he is not here during the weekend (sometimes just for a short while)
11:29:41  <George> I know, but evering can happen ;)
11:30:33  <George> Looks like not only me became interested in FS1862, so I decided to ask
11:31:49  <frosch123> hmm, i had a patch for that about 1.5 years ago. was it never committed?
11:39:47  <frosch123> it is agains r12362 :p
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11:46:16  <frosch123> yeah, i remember there were issues with ttdp
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11:49:12  <Pikka> DaleStan: thanks for correcting the var2 wiki entry.  I wasn't sure what it meant originally, and obviously I leapt the wrong way trying to clarify it.
11:49:14  <frosch123> <- looks like the last proposal was to return the number of parameters needed in var100, and the textstack starting from 101. which was iirc a requirement by ttdp, as ottd does not need the var100
11:50:50  <Pikka> erm, random 2 wiki entry
11:55:49  <frosch123> George: who got also interested in it?
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11:58:11  <Pikka> andy, frosch123
11:58:46  <frosch123> ah, the firs guy
11:58:55  <Pikka> oui
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12:06:26  <insulfrog> hi all
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12:32:10  <insulfrog> I have posted some screenies of my network in it's current condition on the tt forums
12:32:42  <insulfrog> shown here: -
12:34:29  <Eddi|zuHause> openttd has a builtin screenshot function, you know...
12:34:44  <insulfrog> never thought to use it :p
12:36:22  <insulfrog> although I found it easier just to use the Alt+PrintScreen key(s)
12:36:59  <insulfrog> It's just what I'm customed to I suppose
12:37:04  <Alberth> some more detail would be nice imho, now you can only see the overview
12:37:05  <Eddi|zuHause> the point is, if you use the windows screenshot function, you "spoil" the 8bpp window content with the 32bpp window frame, which makes all the picture 32bpp and might make it an unnecessarily big file
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12:38:24  <insulfrog> the current shots ment to be a general overview anyway, I was going to post some more detailed shots later
12:38:58  <insulfrog> because the areas are zoomed out
12:40:26  <insulfrog> I havn't noticed the detail changes anyway between the actual OTTD and the screenies
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12:44:15  <Eddi|zuHause> screenshot 2 is kinda nice ;)
12:44:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i like the nonstandard-spaghetti-ness ;)
12:44:56  <Eddi|zuHause> and it's not the usual "flat everything first" approach
12:45:35  <Alberth> insulfrog: I wouldn't have bothered for screens 6 and 9 probably
12:45:45  <Alberth> yeah, 2 looks promising
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12:49:14  <insulfrog> ty
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12:55:47  <insulfrog> I was hoping to do more where screen 6 is but when the game went to the 'score screen' and went to 2051, I forgot all about that way so I just made a 'quick fix' just to say something is there :p .
12:57:23  <insulfrog> also I don't want people saying "what's beyond that junction on the main line" a million times if you know what I mean :p
12:58:27  <Alberth> :)
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13:30:01  <insulfrog> drat, I must sort out an anoying jam before I expand my network
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13:30:32  <Accatyyc> ah those
13:30:50  <Accatyyc> i broke my record today! 16 trains on the same network xD started playing last week
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13:31:07  <Accatyyc> learning those signals was pretty tedious in the start
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13:52:16  <Eddi|zuHause> you're lucky you have the internet to explain stuff... i had to learn signals from the demo version with no manual...
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13:55:50  <De_Ghosty> learn signal from ppl
13:55:52  <De_Ghosty> easier
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14:07:15  * insulfrog is thinking how he can fix the traffic problem
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14:16:10  <Eddi|zuHause> sell all vehicles, solves all traffic problems
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14:26:54  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17785 /trunk/src/autoreplace_gui.cpp: -Codechange: autoreplace window uses pure nested widgets.
14:29:22  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17786 /trunk/src/ (20 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [FS#3265]: graphical glitches (matrices/scrollbars with wrong 'size') upon reiniting windows
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14:39:48  <andythenorth> afternoon
14:39:55  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17787 /trunk/src/ (music/allegro_m.cpp sound/allegro_s.cpp video/allegro_v.cpp): -Codechange: be a bit more verbose about while allegro failed with some actions.
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14:47:24  <Pikkaa> hi andy
14:48:38  <andythenorth> hi pikka
14:48:46  <andythenorth> hey that wasn't autocomplete!
14:48:50  <andythenorth> silly macintosh
14:49:26  <andythenorth> You people have been good, so you get a log raft
14:49:27  <andythenorth>
14:49:37  <andythenorth> "Lowest cost per ton of any vehicle"
14:49:44  <andythenorth> ^^ that's pretty exciting I bet
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14:50:44  * Alberth is tempted to click on the picture for more information :)
14:51:04  <Alberth> it looks very pretty
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14:58:23  <andythenorth_> frosch123: <George>	Looks like not only me became interested in FS1862, so I decided to ask
14:58:23  <andythenorth_> 07:31	<frosch123>	hmm, i had a patch for that about 1.5 years ago. was it never committed?
14:58:37  <andythenorth_> So what's the thinking on that?
14:58:59  <andythenorth_> Because I'm about to abuse cb 37 to set text strings on about 60 industries
14:59:13  <andythenorth_> which will work fine, but is less funny if it's wasted work :)
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15:07:00  <frosch123> if it wouldn't segfault all the time, i would give you a diff for testing
15:07:19  <Accatyyc> question about translations... can I remove the {P "" s} tag if no plural exists in my language on the word in question? or just change it to {P "" ""}?
15:07:38  <Eddi|zuHause> Accatyyc: just remove the entire {}
15:07:39  <frosch123> just remove it
15:07:46  <Accatyyc> thanks
15:09:06  <andythenorth_> frosch123: who minds a segfault :)
15:09:13  <andythenorth_> tbh I am quite happy with the hack route
15:09:21  <andythenorth_> I think there are probably bigger fish to fry no?
15:10:03  <andythenorth_> got to go, back later...
15:10:11  <frosch123> no idea, what you actually did :)
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15:15:12  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17788 /trunk/src/ (music/null_m.h sound/allegro_s.h sound/null_s.h): -Fix [FS#3268] (r16702): don't fail hard when no soundcard could be detected; just fall back on the null-driver
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15:34:05  <Eddi|zuHause> something's wrong with my engine :(
15:34:19  <Eddi|zuHause> it only works when i turn the screw to catenary mode... :(
15:39:24  <Pikkaa> what have you done, eddi?
15:40:44  <Accatyyc> wonder if people are gonna freak out if i change a major translation... the person before me translated "Buy" to "Build". thinking of changing it as it should be
15:40:55  <frosch123> since when do model railway with catenary exist?
15:41:36  <Eddi|zuHause> they always did
15:41:41  <frosch123> Accatyyc: "build" was only recently changed to "buy" in english
15:41:59  <Accatyyc> okay, they were validated though
15:42:01  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm afraid some contact is broken somewhere...
15:42:02  <Accatyyc> guess i'll change them
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15:51:47  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i don't have any catenary...
15:55:28  <insulfrog> bbl
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16:19:42  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, so at least two soldering contacts seem to be broken... i've done a very provisorial repair now, leaving two wheels unconnected...
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16:28:05  <andythenorth_> frosch123: no idea, what you actually did
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16:28:57  <frosch123> is that a quote or an answer? :p
16:29:00  <andythenorth_> (quote)
16:29:11  <andythenorth_> I just used cb 37 in the way it was intended...except...
16:29:30  <andythenorth_> instead of a text for a cargo subtype I set a text for '(max 200)'
16:29:44  <andythenorth_> I think it works, it's just not the documented use for cb37
16:29:55  <Eddi|zuHause> that's why you should use "<nick>" when you quote and nick:
16:30:02  <Eddi|zuHause> when you answer
16:30:11  <Eddi|zuHause> to avoid confusion
16:30:20  <andythenorth_> hey I just learnt something
16:30:26  <frosch123> you should check for the text being displayed in the industry view, i.e. neither in fund industry gui or industry list. then it should be fine
16:30:48  <andythenorth_> frosch123: yep I do both of these things
16:31:11  <andythenorth_> tbh, I find setting a text this way much simpler than using a text stack
16:31:17  <frosch123> george was about the "200". i.e. is it always 200 or can it increase or decrease?
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16:31:41  <andythenorth_> The 200 could change.  It doesn't in my current plan, but I haven't tested enough yet, and users are requesting it
16:31:43  <andythenorth_> ...
16:32:36  <andythenorth_> If the 200 changes, I just use a different string...
16:32:39  <frosch123> well, if the 200 changes, you can either add text for all possible values, or you could use the stack to insert a value from a register
16:32:50  <frosch123> if you only have "200" there is no point in using the stack
16:33:17  <andythenorth_> If I make the limit dynamic, there's so much other code to change, I should probably use a register
16:33:28  <andythenorth_> but I'm probably not going to bother
16:34:00  <andythenorth_> what would be interesting is having stockpiles limits 'built in' :)
16:34:22  <andythenorth_> to create the current version means varaction 2 chains for both industry and *all* industry tiles
16:34:23  <frosch123> there is a buildin limit of 65535 :p
16:34:30  <andythenorth_> He he :P
16:35:10  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, "builtin" would have some advantages, e.g. the AI could query them...
16:35:39  <andythenorth_> I would also like a pony
16:36:01  <Eddi|zuHause> zomg, ponies!
16:36:03  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: then you would also need to add how fast the cargo is processed, and ....
16:36:51  <Eddi|zuHause> well, yes, and the newgrf only enables that behaviour and sets the parameters...
16:37:26  *** George3 [~George@] has joined #openttd
16:37:30  <Eddi|zuHause> reduces the "code" part of newgrfs, and focuses on the "data" part...
16:37:38  <frosch123> ... and whether cargo is only processed if certain amounts of multipe cargos are available and ...
16:38:17  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: but that is the essential part of newgrf. abstract stuff which is only limited by the imagination of the newgrf coder.
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16:38:55  <George3> frosch123: It is different for every industry for every production level
16:39:14  <frosch123> no richk-like stuff which supports everything he could think of in 5 minutes, but nothing more without trashing it all
16:39:38  <frosch123> George3: there is a new diff in the fs task
16:40:01  <George3> I see, but I need executable to test :(
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16:40:18  <frosch123> wait 10 minutes :p
16:40:24  <George> Ok
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16:56:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess he couldn
16:56:26  <Eddi|zuHause> 't wait 10 minutes :p
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17:15:46  <andythenorth_> ah, a problem
17:16:00  <andythenorth_> FIRS oil platform accepts passengers, because we all like that, right?
17:16:18  <andythenorth_> but I am using the production callback, so passengers get 'processed' :)
17:16:35  <andythenorth_> I might be able work around it with the production callback, but it's kind of weird
17:18:54  <sawtooth> Just name the oil platform "Ellis"
17:19:24  <frosch123> andythenorth_: just do not add passenger to the list of accepted cargos of the industry, but only to the acceptance of industry tiles
17:19:37  <andythenorth_> kerching
17:19:39  <andythenorth_> good idea
17:19:57  <frosch123> that is how the default oil rig does it :p
17:20:11  <andythenorth_> can industry tiles produce cargo without it being a 'produced' cargo at the industry
17:20:21  <andythenorth_> ?
17:20:29  <frosch123> no
17:20:35  <andythenorth_> ok
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17:21:57  <andythenorth_> oh well
17:22:03  <andythenorth_> I had an idea there, but never mind
17:22:34  <andythenorth_> players seem to like industries that accept / produce passengers, but I'm not wasting industry cargo slots on it :)
17:22:41  <andythenorth_> (except for the oil platform!)
17:27:13  <PeterT> @seen Celestar
17:27:13  <DorpsGek> PeterT: Celestar was last seen in #openttd 25 weeks, 3 days, 9 hours, 28 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <Celestar> morning
17:27:23  <PeterT> is he still developing CargodEst
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17:31:31  * andythenorth_ so what cargo acceptance do we get at an industry with six tiles each with 1/8 acceptance?
17:31:35  <andythenorth_> hmm hmm?
17:31:45  * andythenorth_ points fingers at FooBar :D
17:32:54  * andythenorth_ or maybe points finger at seld
17:32:57  <andythenorth_> self *
17:33:29  <andythenorth_> oops
17:33:33  <andythenorth_> embarassed
17:33:47  <Pikka> 6/8 if the station catchment covers the whole industry, andy? :P
17:34:30  <andythenorth_> my bad
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17:34:40  <andythenorth_> I just learnt how cb 2B works :)
17:34:46  <andythenorth_> I was wrong before
17:34:56  <andythenorth_> now to change all that code I copied and pasted earlier...
17:36:20  <Pikka> that's always fun :)
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17:42:44  *** mode/#openttd [+o Rubidium] by ChanServ
17:45:31  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r17789 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
17:45:31  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:31  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: basque - 79 changes by Thadah
17:45:31  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: greek - 11 changes by fumantsu
17:45:31  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 78 changes by Utvik
17:45:32  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: norwegian_nynorsk - 1 changes by Utvik
17:45:32  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: swedish - 233 changes by accatyyc
17:53:19  <Accatyyc> already? hm. will these come with the next nightly or do they update ingame?
17:54:26  <Rubidium> they'll come with the next nightly
17:54:39  <Rubidium> which will be done in roughly 1 hour
17:55:06  <PeterT> or you can manually download and compile via svn
17:56:52  <Accatyyc> okay sweet
17:58:00  <Accatyyc> yeah, i take it only the devs can commit to svn.. but what do you do if you play around with the code and fix something that could be of use in the public revisions?
17:58:47  <sawtooth> then you make a patch
18:00:37  <Chruker> and post it to ...
18:00:46  <SmatZ> and devs commit it :-p
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18:06:01  <Eddi|zuHause> Accatyyc: if you feel you have a change worth commiting, make a patch and put that on then a dev can review it, and if it is not rejected, it will sooner or later end up being commited
18:06:26  <Accatyyc> okay :)
18:07:14  <Eddi|zuHause> Accatyyc: before you do that, read the wiki about coding style, because that is the first criterium that will cause a rejection
18:07:53  <Accatyyc> no worries
18:08:03  <Accatyyc> nothing like merging unformatted code ..
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18:19:00  <andythenorth> FIRS Oil Platform seems to work using method suggested by frosch123
18:19:15  <andythenorth> guess testing will show if I've got it right :)
18:20:22  <frosch123> but you cannot implement stockpile limits for passengers that way :p
18:21:04  <andythenorth> That's ok, I'm only using limits for cargos that boost production
18:21:18  <andythenorth> Passengers won't boost production for Oil Platform
18:21:27  <andythenorth> I'm just including them because it's kind of traditional :)
18:21:46  <Eddi|zuHause> omg... comedy central is broadcasting jeff dunham...
18:21:53  <Eddi|zuHause> DUBBED IN GERMAN!
18:23:14  <b_jonas> andythenorth: oil platforms also have a built in heliport which would look strange without passengers
18:23:40  <b_jonas> though I can't really see why anyone would actually want to use that heliport
18:24:52  <b_jonas> I think the passengers in industries were more important in the original ttd because of the many train heads that carry passengers and can't be refitted
18:24:58  <frosch123> b_jonas: until 2050 the oil production reduces to 4 tons per month, and it needs to be transported as valuables to banks via helicopters
18:25:01  <Chruker> SOme people like helicopters
18:25:04  <b_jonas> especially if you full load
18:25:13  <b_jonas> Chruker: sure, but from an oil platform?
18:25:26  <b_jonas> frosch123: oh, I see
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18:26:06  <andythenorth> b_jonas: helicopters are....realistic :)
18:26:12  <break19> Every game I play with oil platforms/derricks, they always go "empty" in just a few years
18:26:24  <andythenorth> FIRS is different
18:26:31  <frosch123> yeah, cs added helicopters to ttd only for belugas
18:26:44  <andythenorth> they probably discussed it via PM
18:26:44  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: Stille... I t?te Sie?
18:27:20  <andythenorth> Anyway, passengers at oil platforms is done and dusted, unless there are bugs
18:27:20  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i don't know, i switched off after 3 seconds, because the dubbing is unbelievably bad...
18:27:32  <andythenorth> So on to production boosting for farms
18:28:06  <break19> I propose a "government" game.. unlimited money. :p
18:28:25  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: sounds like "Ich bring euch um!"
18:28:36  <b_jonas> governments don't actually have unlimited money
18:28:43  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: dubbing is not generally bad. i.e. in "hercules in new york" you can concentrate on the story without being distracted by austrian english
18:28:47  <break19> I know. they just think they do. :/
18:29:18  <b_jonas> break19: oh, so it would just display unlimited money but you'd still go bankrupt if you spend too much?
18:29:30  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: dubbing is not bad in general, but the comedy central dubs are exceptionally cheap and thus bad...
18:29:30  <frosch123> [20:29] <break19> I propose a "government" game.. unlimited money. :p <- you can play iceland then
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18:30:13  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: jeff dunham sounds like one of those translated home shopping shows
18:30:16  <break19> heh
18:30:56  <Rubidium> frosch123: I was thinking about Zimbabwe
18:31:34  <Eddi|zuHause> the german system is not bad either "we take out loans so we can repay the old ones faster!" :p
18:32:03  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: not a bad idea when the interest rate is significantly lower
18:32:51  <fjb> Isn't mail also important fot oil platforms? :-)
18:33:14  <b_jonas> fjb: nah, they have internets by the time oil platforms appear
18:33:15  <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: an industry can only produce two cargos
18:34:57  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: But it could accept mail. Love letters from the wives of the workers. They never write back because they disappear there.
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18:35:10  <b_jonas> so is there a terrain in openttd where towns produce an increasing number of garbage you have to transport to garbage industriess to make the towns grow?
18:36:01  <b_jonas> s/number/amount/
18:36:02  <Rubidium> in TTD's world garbage is mailed
18:36:26  <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: garbage is facing that same problem, a building can only produce two cargos, so you have to chose between mail or garbage
18:36:46  <b_jonas> Eddi|zuHause: well then there wouldn't be mail. people use the internet.
18:37:11  <Rubidium> you can't send *all* you garbage over the internet
18:37:19  <andythenorth> b_jonas: FIRS has waste (garbage), but it won't make towns grow
18:37:22  <Rubidium> although... lots of people are trying to send garbage over the internet
18:37:24  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, because worldwide mail service broke down since the introduction of internet
18:38:01  <Eddi|zuHause> the same way as the internet killed book printing
18:38:13  <Eddi|zuHause> or road traffic
18:38:33  <b_jonas> it's not the internet, mail service here broke down before the internet started to spread
18:40:53  <b_jonas> anyway, if you can have climates where towns don't require food then not having mail doesn't seem that strange to me either
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18:47:29  <Accatyyc> i thought transporting garbage was a really good idea
18:47:35  <andythenorth> you can in FIRS
18:47:37  <andythenorth> :D
18:47:56  <Accatyyc> sweet
18:47:57  <andythenorth> garbage came up several times on the forums as a suggestion
18:48:07  <andythenorth> and for that kind of suggestion, newgrf is the answer
18:48:18  <andythenorth> I'm working on it right now, but there is a version released already
18:48:18  <Accatyyc> but what would happen to a town if you refuse to transport their garbage?
18:48:27  <Pikka> anyone who cares: the personal letter wasn't killed by the internet, it was killed by the telephone.  if anything, the internet has created an increase in mail traffic, as it is now much easier to mail-order things from far away.
18:48:27  <andythenorth> in FIRS, nothing
18:48:28  <Accatyyc> become a big garbage pile :P
18:48:54  <andythenorth> Someone else could code a town set to do something interesting with garbage
18:48:58  <andythenorth> But not me :)
18:49:16  <andythenorth> I'm busy.  I've got an industry set, a ship set, and a truck set to look after
18:49:28  <Accatyyc> which industry set?
18:49:33  <andythenorth> FIRS
18:49:42  <andythenorth>
18:49:51  <Pikka> andy: I was thinking of having scrapyards and recycling plants
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18:50:14  <George> frosch123: test #1 passed (FS1862)
18:50:17  <Pikka> with no inputs; we assume garbage collection is done by the local authority, and we just take it once it's been pooled together :P
18:50:26  <andythenorth> Pikka: might be able to help you out there....
18:50:43  <frosch123> George: nice :)
18:50:54  <andythenorth> Pikka: oh, I see that was two comments
18:50:56  <andythenorth> as one
18:51:01  <George> starting test 2
18:51:26  <andythenorth> Pikka: yes that way we wouldn't need a Waste cargo
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18:51:38  <andythenorth> I think I included it because I wanted to be able to run bin trucks
18:51:46  <Pikka> fun :)
18:51:49  <andythenorth> and garbage trains
18:51:56  <andythenorth> and those boats you get in London
18:52:09  *** th1ngwath [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:52:10  <andythenorth> but above all, the bulldozer from the movie Tremors
18:53:27  <Accatyyc> FIRS looks fun. what happens if an industry forms with no drawn sprites though?
18:53:43  <andythenorth> Accatyyc: it doesn't
18:53:48  <Accatyyc> clever.
18:53:50  <frosch123> [20:38] <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: garbage is facing that same problem, a building can only produce two cargos, so you have to chose between mail or garbage <-
18:53:55  <andythenorth> only industries with graphics are coded
18:54:07  <andythenorth> players who've tried it seem to like it
18:54:17  <andythenorth> there's enough to play a full game
18:54:29  <andythenorth> but the tropic climate has a few mistakes
18:54:59  <Accatyyc> okay :)
18:55:05  <Accatyyc> might try it when the nightly is out
18:55:16  * Accatyyc ponders...
18:55:26  <andythenorth> It's here
18:55:27  <andythenorth>
18:55:36  <Accatyyc> is there anyone out there actually playing toyland btw?
18:56:02  <Accatyyc> meant ottd nightly :P
18:56:03  <fjb> FIRS is fun.
18:57:11  <andythenorth> fjb: thanks :)
18:57:17  <andythenorth> feedback keeps me coding...
18:57:28  <frosch123> [20:57] <Accatyyc> is there anyone out there actually playing toyland btw? <- the toyland helicopter was lost in the nightlies for about 2 months and noone complained
18:57:47  <Accatyyc> xD
18:58:00  <Accatyyc> pretty much answers my question
18:58:31  * fjb is actually playing an game with FIRS (and FISH, but that beside some other ship set).
18:58:56  <frosch123> and HEQS ?
18:58:59  <andythenorth> fjb: how are you getting on with FISH?
18:59:47  <fjb> andythenorth: I like it. Using it for coal with the biggest ships in the set.
19:00:35  <andythenorth> Are they big enough?  They are about right for scale, but in a game, I got a mine with high production and ended up with about 20 ships running to it
19:01:17  <fjb> andythenorth: And the HEQS trucks are transporting the coal from and to the harbour.
19:02:24  *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: 540 seconds]
19:02:27  <fjb> I'm using ships and trains. They are big enough in that scenario. But it is my first game with them.
19:02:44  <andythenorth> ok thanks
19:02:58  <andythenorth> HEQS is a bit unbalanced....too many useless bulldozers :)
19:03:20  <andythenorth> But I don't have the heart to delete them
19:03:24  <fjb> But they look nice.
19:03:48  <fjb> And they don't disturb you if you are not using them.
19:04:00  <andythenorth> I was aiming for a really balanced set with no pointless vehicles
19:04:15  <andythenorth> but some of my favourite train sets do included some fairly pointless vehicles :)
19:04:20  <fjb> Only bad thing is that articulated vehicles are not able to overtake them.
19:04:20  <andythenorth> shay?  snow plough?
19:04:28  <andythenorth> :P
19:04:44  <andythenorth> Shame aRVs can't overtake each other...
19:04:53  * fjb likes vehicles which look pointless.
19:06:53  <fjb> dbset has only powerful locomotives later in the game because MB thinks switchers are pointless then. Maybe that is true in his style of playing TTD. But I'm missing them.
19:07:06  <Pikka> oi, nothing wrong with the shay :P
19:07:44  <fjb> I have used it. But mainly as a switcher.
19:07:51  <andythenorth> I use it for hauling lumber
19:07:56  <Pikka> , wot larfs.
19:07:57  <andythenorth> as the creator intended :)
19:09:03  <andythenorth> With FIRS, for bulk primary cargos, we're going to set the payment rates so flat that speed really doesn't matter
19:09:40  <andythenorth> If you care about making money, it will become about cost-per-ton...which is...wait for it...
19:09:46  <andythenorth> HIGHLY REALISTIC
19:10:08  <Pikka> dun dun dun!
19:10:09  <andythenorth> If you prefer eye candy (I do), well that's fine too, we've got you covered
19:10:14  <Accatyyc> <@Rubidium> ETA on nightly? :) I have to run off for a while
19:10:39  <andythenorth> Pikka: I should stick to my knitting, but I've been thinking of some railway vehicles...
19:10:54  <andythenorth> specifically engineering vehicles
19:11:01  <andythenorth> breakdown crane etc
19:11:18  <andythenorth> they could be either eye candy, or haul engineering supplies
19:11:46  <Rubidium> Accatyyc: 21 minutes ago
19:12:14  <Accatyyc> doh
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19:12:28  <Accatyyc> thanks
19:12:56  <Pikkaa> sounds good andy, might have trouble making it look okay in corners though :P
19:13:09  <fjb> A German rail set in the style of NARS 2 (but with realistic instead of or in addition to player colors) would be great. But I always fail when I start to draw a vehicle.
19:13:33  <andythenorth> Pikka: ach it can just bend in the middle
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19:14:12  <andythenorth> how about a self-propelled crane as an engine?
19:14:15  <andythenorth> or a crane tank?
19:14:25  <Pikkaa> could do :P
19:14:36  <andythenorth> :P
19:14:43  <andythenorth> most things are *possible*
19:14:46  <andythenorth> with enough time
19:14:51  <sawtooth> harvey
19:14:54  <Pikkaa> and enough inclination
19:14:56  <Pikkaa> ;)
19:15:09  <andythenorth> apparently mb has some sprites kicking around for maintenance vehicles
19:15:37  <andythenorth> I like the idea because they could work with pretty much any set (allowing for scale issues)
19:16:13  <andythenorth> anyway, back to today's nfo
19:16:27  <andythenorth> should secondary industries use Engineering Supplies?
19:16:38  * andythenorth has a beer to aid thinking
19:16:49  <asilv> mb apparently has lots of stuff lying around, but is he ever going to release anything.. :P
19:16:49  <andythenorth> it's Diwali today, shouldn't be drinking beer
19:17:03  <andythenorth> mb should just gpl all of it
19:17:26  <Pikkaa> psht, gpl :P
19:17:34  <andythenorth> meh
19:17:57  <asilv> i don't care about licences as long as I get new toys to play with
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19:18:21  <andythenorth> hah, gpl makes it possible to only care about one license:
19:18:21  <b_jonas> actually it would become highly realistic only if industries woulnd't pay high distance fees for transporting stuff from farther than necessary
19:18:32  <andythenorth> b_jonas: don't open *that* can of worms
19:18:33  <b_jonas> except for passangers and mail
19:18:35  <b_jonas> andythenorth: sure
19:18:38  <b_jonas> you can't do that
19:18:42  <b_jonas> it would break the whole ttd
19:18:47  <andythenorth> there are forum posts about it
19:18:52  <Pikka> andy: not-gpl makes it possible to care about no licences :P
19:19:25  <b_jonas> why do rail depots and elecrified rail depots look exactly the same in ttdpatch?
19:19:32  <Rubidium> who cares about mb's vapourware anyway?
19:20:08  <andythenorth> Pikka: not-gpl means I can end up having silly playground fights with other grf authors who go into a sulk about how their graphics are being used :)
19:20:12  <andythenorth> b_jonas:
19:20:26  <andythenorth> gpl = no sulking
19:20:31  <andythenorth> I love the gpl
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19:21:13  <Pikka> psht :P
19:21:29  <Pikka> but whatever works for you :P
19:21:33  <andythenorth> Ok, secondary industries, how about:
19:21:57  <andythenorth> Engineering Supplies waiting to be processed boosts production by 1.5 times what it would have been
19:22:09  <andythenorth> Sound fun?
19:22:23  <Rubidium> bad sound => no fun
19:22:38  <andythenorth> meh
19:22:49  <Pikka> boosts the production rate?
19:22:58  <andythenorth> Pikka: yes
19:23:09  <Pikka> not boosts the conversion ratio? :P  sounds okay.
19:23:13  <andythenorth> ^^ that wasn't a suggestion for text by the way
19:23:34  <fjb> Transporting things around the world is quite realistic. And more and more people order at Amazon instead of going to the local book store.
19:23:43  <andythenorth> I would just branch action 2s for the production callback depending on how much ES is waiting
19:23:52  <Pikka> oui
19:23:59  <andythenorth> Seems like fun
19:24:04  <andythenorth> For text, I'm thinking:
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19:24:43  <andythenorth> "Engineering Supplies gets you a Pony, Subways and a Realistic Economy"
19:24:43  <b_jonas> anyway, first oil rig appeared so now I'm building oil train
19:25:02  <andythenorth> train on water?
19:25:08  <b_jonas> and I may have to found an oil refinery too
19:25:46  <b_jonas> wait, this is already the second oil rig
19:26:16  <b_jonas> I was so occupied by making the complicated train routes work that I didn't even notice
19:27:27  <Ammler> pikka, is your license valid for bananas?
19:27:48  * andythenorth runs away
19:27:52  <Ammler> :-)
19:28:04  *** Booth is now known as Chris_Booth
19:28:18  * andythenorth comes back
19:28:22  <andythenorth> forgot to do the dairy farm
19:28:31  <andythenorth> no curry for me until that's done
19:28:39  <andythenorth> oops
19:28:42  <andythenorth> and the fruit plantation
19:28:53  <frosch123> Ammler: how can a license be invalid for bananas?
19:29:30  <Ammler> "Distribution or modification without permission prohibited."
19:30:09  <frosch123> yes, that means the user is not allowed to do neither of them
19:30:37  <frosch123> bananas has its own terms
19:30:48  <andythenorth> curry is one industry closer...
19:31:16  <Pikka> Ammler: that's almost exactly what my copying.txt says :P
19:31:20  *** fjb [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:31:47  <frosch123> andythenorth:
19:32:11  <andythenorth> frosch123: :D
19:32:12  <b_jonas> I hope I won't have to buy up the computer companies just because of the 256 depot limit
19:32:27  <Rubidium> <- I would run :)
19:32:32  <b_jonas> there are only like 90 depot slots left
19:32:41  <b_jonas> and I don't feel like buying them up yet
19:33:09  *** Goulp [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:33:37  <Rubidium> stop_ai? :)
19:34:46  <andythenorth> curry is now imminent :)
19:35:03  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
19:35:19  <Pikka> how could this happen?
19:35:37  <Rubidium> something with a stove?
19:38:10  <Ammler> pikka / frosch, the same reason, the is no CC license which forbids distribution. :-)
19:39:20  <frosch123> Ammler: the author is never bound to his own license, and can offer any rights to anyone without caring about the license
19:40:33  <Ammler> well, in cases, he is the only author or the others have left their rights.
19:43:14  <Pikka> ammler: I have clearly given banananananas permission to distribute my grfs, as evidenced by the fact that I uploaded them ;)
19:43:20  <Ammler> the issue is, you can distribute openttd with all content, but except those with such special custom licenses.
19:43:56  <Ammler> I am not sure, if that is pointed out in the bananas rules.
19:43:59  <Pikka> how is that an issue?
19:44:22  <Ammler> Pikka: your license might not allow that.
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19:45:48  <Pikka> I don't see how that is a problem with it being on bananas though
19:46:11  <Ammler> if I downloaded it from bananas, I can distribute that tar?
19:46:30  <Ammler> that isn't clear...
19:46:56  <Pikka> the copying.txt says you can't do that without permission, no
19:47:01  <Pikka> but what's the problem? :P
19:47:30  <Ammler> well, making a cd with all content :-)
19:47:45  <Sacro> pikka can do what he likes with his own stuff
19:47:48  <Sacro> it's his to do it with
19:48:20  <Ammler> Sacro: I never said something else...
19:48:32  <Pikka> see, this is why I avoid complex licences
19:48:46  <Pikka> people abandon all common sense and start pretending to be lawyers
19:48:52  <Ammler> no license like yours is the most complec license
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19:49:05  * frosch123 puts ttd in a tar, burns it on a cd, and sells it. the license does not apply when it is inside a tar
19:49:25  <Sacro> what is Pikka's licence?
19:49:44  <Pikka> "Distribution or modification without permission prohibited."
19:50:12  <Sacro> sounds fine to me
19:50:14  <Ammler> it is like "you need to ask, if you want something which is like no license"
19:50:14  <Brianetta> Basically, no license
19:50:34  <Brianetta> I have a limited license to redistribute some of Pikka's work
19:50:39  <Sacro> the 'or' could be ambiguous
19:50:49  <Brianetta> but that was to me personally
19:50:53  <Sacro> Brianetta: latest version for use on the server iirc
19:50:58  <Brianetta> yes
19:51:19  <Ammler> yes, same with the coop pack or now with bananas.
19:51:24  <Brianetta> I'm not currently using that license, but its not transferable
19:51:44  <Brianetta> Pikka might well have issued other licenses
19:51:56  <Brianetta> that is, given permissions
19:52:07  <Sacro> that's within his rights
19:52:09  <Brianetta> That's all a license is
19:52:17  <Brianetta> Specific permissions
19:52:21  <Ammler> but it isn't clear, if that license is made invaled with bananas rules.
19:52:30  <Ammler> invalid*
19:52:40  <Brianetta> Ammler: How so?
19:52:42  *** Chris_Booth [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:52:59  <Ammler> because if you upload to bananas you allow openttd to distribute it.
19:53:06  <Pikka> yes
19:53:14  <Brianetta> Specifically, you allow bananas to redistribute it
19:53:24  <Ammler> yes, I meant re
19:53:40  <Brianetta> not openttd in general
19:53:46  <Brianetta> and certainly not the end users
19:54:15  <Ammler> You grant the OpenTTD team to distribute your latest content via our website.
19:54:31  <Ammler> who is the team?
19:54:31  <Brianetta> You can't assume a license just because somebody else has it.  When I run my server, I'm allowed to pass copies of the newgrfs to players, but they're not given any implicit license to then pass those copies o nto other players, even for my server.
19:54:54  <Brianetta> Ammler: If you're not sure, be sure it isn't you (:
19:55:11  <Ammler> how can you?
19:55:20  <frosch123> Ammler: you should take a job at microsoft, then you become owner of lots of patents
19:55:21  <Ammler> :-)
19:55:39  <frosch123> and you can sell software
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19:56:29  <Ammler> well, anyway, you can as end user redistribute everything except pikkas grfs.
19:59:06  <Pikka> actually Ammler, you can distribute my grfs, providing you do one of two things
19:59:24  *** TrainzStoffe [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:59:47  <Ammler> pikka, those 2 things should go to the license file.
20:00:00  *** oskari89 [] has quit [Quit: Utm Aœ - Aja 35]
20:00:46  <Pikka> well one of them already /is/ in the licence file (ask permission), and the second is to ignore the licence file. :P
20:01:24  <Ammler> ignore isn't an alternative
20:01:44  <Ammler> but if you don't care someone does ignore it, you should alter the license, definitly.
20:01:58  *** nicfer1 [~Usuario@] has joined #openttd
20:02:13  <Pikka> but I /might/ care if someone ignores it.  that's the point of it.
20:02:35  <Pikka> but if you just want to put it on a cd or email it to a friend, why would I care?  how would I even know?
20:02:47  <frosch123> you should add some term like "ammler is not allowed to use it"
20:02:51  <TrueBrain> I would tell you! :)
20:03:11  <Ammler> frosch123: that wouldn't help in the ignore case either.
20:04:10  <frosch123> he would just call muammar and catch you
20:06:59  *** KritiK [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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20:11:37  <Ammler> pikka, in which case e.g. would you say "no" to distribution?
20:12:07  <Pikka> define distribution, what do you want to do?
20:12:13  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
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20:14:10  <Ammler> that is what I wondering, what do I need to do, that you wouldn't allow me with your grfs.
20:14:27  <TrueBrain> ./name Ammler
20:15:01  <andythenorth> hey I missed a licensing discussion
20:15:02  <Ammler> just about distribution
20:15:04  <andythenorth> what fun :P
20:16:45  <andythenorth> hmm
20:16:57  <Pikka> Ammler: if you want to upload it to some random website or repository of grfs
20:17:03  <Pikka> I would say no
20:17:47  <andythenorth> One of the ideas of FIRS is that we cater for players who insist on delivering *insane* amounts of cargo to a processing industry
20:17:54  <andythenorth> (maglev fans for example)
20:17:59  *** Stoffe [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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20:18:24  <andythenorth> Those guys like to get insane output from their insane input
20:18:42  <andythenorth> not quite sure how to code that, given that I *need* to use the production callback
20:18:51  <andythenorth> which only processes at a certain rate
20:18:56  <George> frosch123: test 2 passed
20:18:57  <andythenorth> I'm sure varaction 2 will be my friend...
20:19:30  <frosch123> andythenorth: 65535 units per 3.4 days is not bad, is it?
20:20:04  <Ammler> hmm, ok, I had game magzines in mind.
20:21:15  <George> frosch123: I have to do one more test, but I want to sleep, so I'll do it tomorrow
20:21:16  <andythenorth> frosch123: I reckon that might cover it
20:21:18  <frosch123> Ammler: what is the point of distributing stuff via some magazine, which you can download ingame?
20:21:29  <frosch123> George: fine :)
20:21:41  <Ammler> some people like that, because they have a bad internet connection.
20:22:03  <frosch123> well, if they like it :)
20:22:18  <Ammler> well, I heard :-P
20:23:05  <andythenorth> 458745 units processed in a month....can any of you co-op guys deliver more than that?
20:23:05  *** Fast2 [] has joined #openttd
20:23:19  <Ammler> magazines are also a kind of advertising...
20:24:10  <George> P.S. [23:04:47] <andythenorth> Shame aRVs can't overtake each other... What about FS 2738? Mabe some one has already a patch in the pocket? ;)
20:24:50  *** Fast2 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:25:55  <frosch123> andythenorth: such amounts can only be delivered by ship
20:26:13  <andythenorth> 458 ships in a month?
20:26:22  <andythenorth> pretty intense :)
20:26:28  <andythenorth> what about by plane?
20:26:35  <frosch123> so, 5000 ships per company, 15 companies, 65535 units per ship
20:26:42  <andythenorth> Anotonov...A 380 or...Belugas
20:26:44  <Ammler> andythenorth: there are some coop games which do split the cargo to different factories
20:26:56  <frosch123> how long does a ship take to travel?
20:27:07  <andythenorth> how long is a piece of string?
20:27:19  <Ammler> means one station with around 3 station signs and 3 factories
20:27:22  <andythenorth> it takes twice as long as it did to get half-way
20:28:19  <Ammler> dunno, if we have a blog about...
20:28:39  <andythenorth> Ammler: think you can deliver more than 458k units of cargo to one factory in a month?
20:28:55  *** Pikka [PikkaBird@] has quit []
20:29:09  <andythenorth> bye Pikka
20:29:12  <Ammler> Mark would know it better :-)
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20:29:49  <Ammler> but I guess we that, because the factory can only produce 45k or so
20:30:03  <andythenorth> I think we'll have a rule....if you must deliver more than 458k units of cargo / month...don't use FIRS :P
20:30:06  <Ammler> (the default industry)
20:31:18  <Ammler> andythenorth: it is like 5k trains on one map, there might come the time this is possible, 10 years? ;-)
20:31:42  <b_jonas> I think I figured out the problem with my tracks
20:31:48  <frosch123> andythenorth: check for that and close the industry with a newspaper saying it was burried and not found anymore
20:32:14  <andythenorth> in 10 years, OpenTTD will be 3D...and fully realistic
20:32:14  <b_jonas> the trains turn back because they want to go to a depot
20:32:27  <Ammler> but then only 100 trains possible :-P
20:32:30  <b_jonas> but they can't reach the depot because of the one-way signs
20:32:34  <andythenorth> in 10 years time, someone will have finally written a python-nfo compiler
20:32:44  <andythenorth> in 10 years I'm bored now
20:32:59  <b_jonas> to fix this I need to build more depots but then I'll run out of depots even sooner
20:33:08  <Rubidium> ... we're still waiting for a new dbsetxl
20:33:30  <andythenorth> New Ships is 6 years old!
20:34:28  <frosch123> .. we're going to party r50000
20:34:32  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17790 /trunk/ (8 files in 3 dirs): -Feature: translatable base sound/graphics set descriptions
20:35:06  <frosch123> TrueBrain: ^^ new task for you :p
20:35:17  <TrueBrain> tasks are overrated
20:36:16  <TrueBrain> OpenDUNE is much more fun :p
20:36:49  <frosch123> oh, sorry, in 10 years time, we will all play opendune only
20:36:57  <TrueBrain> good ;)
20:37:01  <TrueBrain> I will hold you to that :)
20:38:39  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17791 /trunk/src/highscore_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Highscore and endgame windows use pure nested widgets.
20:39:09  <frosch123> otoh, there are only 5 descriptions, maybe translators should have to include them into the mail to translator@ to prove their abilities
20:39:42  <TrueBrain> haha, that should avoid silly translators, yes :)
20:42:46  <Rubidium> and how would someone unfamiliar with those languages tell whether the translation is any good?
20:42:55  *** Alberth [] has left #openttd []
20:43:02  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: we ask around! :)
20:43:26  <Rubidium> so... who here speaks Basque?
20:43:33  <Rubidium> or more importantly, can write it
20:43:43  <TrueBrain> well, he only needs to be able to read it
20:44:45  <Rubidium> well... I can 'read' German, but I wouldn't be sure something is right or isn't
20:46:16  <andythenorth> what do we think about secondary industry ratios?
20:46:25  <andythenorth> one unit delivered = one unit produced?
20:46:54  <andythenorth> or several units delivered = one unit produced?
20:47:28  *** lemon [] has joined #openttd
20:47:44  <lemon> hey
20:48:15  <frosch123> andythenorth: more units output, when input cargos have a certain ratio
20:48:31  *** gouki_ [] has joined #openttd
20:49:09  <andythenorth> iron ore = some steel
20:49:12  <andythenorth> coal = some steel
20:49:14  <frosch123> otoh, maybe a pony should be enough
20:49:20  <andythenorth> iron ore + coal = rather more steel
20:49:21  <andythenorth> ?
20:49:38  <lemon> hmm..
20:49:45  <andythenorth> frosch123: ponies go to the meat packer
20:49:50  <andythenorth> they are livestock
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20:50:13  <frosch123> 1 ironore + 2 coal = 5 steel, 1 ironore + 1 coal = 3 steel, 1 ironore = 1 steel, 1 coal = 1 steel
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20:50:51  <andythenorth> frosch123: seems a bit complicated?  And also violates the laws of physics?
20:51:02  <andythenorth> more units out than in?
20:51:07  <andythenorth> :P
20:51:13  <frosch123> ok, 10 ironore + 20 coal = 5 steel
20:51:19  <andythenorth> ah hah
20:51:29  <lemon> ahha
20:51:31  <andythenorth> that sort of thing can be done
20:51:48  <frosch123> otoh, you could also control production speed with the stockpile ratio
20:51:50  <lemon> ye s
20:51:54  <lemon> i do it
20:51:59  <lemon> : P
20:52:24  <andythenorth> I suspect lemon may be a familiar person with a silly nick
20:53:29  *** bb10 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:53:38  <lemon> what !!
20:54:15  <lemon> my nick is best
20:54:33  <frosch123> ... before 23:00
20:56:11  <andythenorth> I think tonight I set all processing industries to use cargo and produce it at the blistering rate of FF FF
20:56:17  <andythenorth> that makes FIRS unbroken again :)
20:56:26  <andythenorth> then I'll tweak it
20:56:52  *** TrainzStoffe [] has joined #openttd
20:56:52  <andythenorth> FooBar is a big fan of escapes....which makes the code more readable, but weirds me out a bit :)
20:56:55  <lemon> 22222
20:57:07  <andythenorth> lemon: 333333?
20:57:13  <lemon> runscape
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21:00:41  <lemon>  wher are you from
21:01:08  <Fast2> Hintertupfingen
21:01:55  <lemon> how contray
21:04:40  *** Pikka [PikkaBird@] has joined #openttd
21:05:21  <andythenorth> hello Pikka
21:05:29  <andythenorth> where *have* you been?
21:05:51  <Rubidium> asleep?
21:06:14  * andythenorth just remembered some clever soul invented find and replace
21:06:16  <lemon> wher have you not been ?
21:06:27  <andythenorth> shame I've just spent ages copying and pasting :|
21:06:27  <frosch123> hehe, i knew some fool added hintertupfingen to google maps
21:06:34  <frosch123> though there is only one :o
21:06:40  <Pikka> I have been playing tf2!
21:06:48  <Pikka> hello andy
21:09:16  <SpComb> Pikka the Pyro
21:10:12  <lemon> yes u are some geek ; D
21:10:32  <Rubidium> no, the greeks were here a while ago
21:11:25  <lemon> ok
21:12:13  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
21:14:40  *** b_jonas [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
21:15:42  <lemon> but wats upp
21:17:19  <Accatyyc> any OpenTF2 planned? :D
21:17:34  <Accatyyc> just for the sake of it. you got this little project running along fine so
21:18:32  <lemon> gekker
21:18:36  *** lemon [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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21:24:37  <Pikka> bombcart.grf
21:28:37  *** Pikkaa [PikkaBird@] has joined #openttd
21:29:07  <andythenorth> ??
21:29:08  <andythenorth>
21:29:45  <Accatyyc> lol
21:29:52  <Accatyyc> think he made a reference from tf2
21:29:59  <Accatyyc> well that would be awesome
21:30:06  <Accatyyc> pl_temperate
21:30:28  <Accatyyc> or maybe the other way around
21:30:36  <Accatyyc> dustbowl climate
21:31:02  <andythenorth> google search for bombcart reminds me why I stay out of #tycoon :)
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21:31:19  <andythenorth> hmm.  I am being laughed at by the production callback
21:31:23  <andythenorth> major fail in my code
21:31:43  <Accatyyc> ouch
21:32:39  *** Pikka [PikkaBird@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:34:49  <Accatyyc> i wrote code that failed once..
21:34:53  <Accatyyc> aaah the memories
21:35:53  <Accatyyc> we have a song for this at uni
21:36:29  <Accatyyc> "When I find my code in tons of trouble, friends and collegues come to me; speaking words of wisdom - Write in C."
21:36:40  <andythenorth> this is the problem
21:36:41  <andythenorth>
21:36:57  <andythenorth> industry produces output even with no input...
21:37:04  <andythenorth> I am doing something wrong...
21:37:14  <frosch123> yes
21:37:14  <Accatyyc> definately
21:38:22  <Accatyyc> lol @ recent posts in the pastebin
21:38:30  <Accatyyc> i'll probably get banned if i paste them here xD
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21:38:58  <frosch123> andythenorth: the production callback does not check availability of cargo at all
21:39:07  <frosch123> "The total amount of cargo waiting cannot go negative. If you specify more than the amount actually waiting, the incoming amount will be zeroed instead."
21:39:16  <frosch123> you have to check that yourself
21:41:17  <andythenorth> frosch123: ok thanks
21:42:09  <andythenorth> I like industry variables 40-42 anyway :)
21:42:44  <andythenorth> they are trustworthy and don't get enough fame
21:43:54  <Rubidium> I'd say 1A is the most trustworthy variable
21:44:11  <frosch123> but it is somewhat negative
21:44:24  <Rubidium> but they're all set to go
21:45:12  <Accatyyc> i've seen in some screenshots people have crowded trainstations.. is this some .grf or am i just missing something?
21:45:26  <Accatyyc> crowded with people that is
21:45:45  <frosch123> station grfs can show waiting cargo
21:45:46  <Rubidium> yes, to both actually :)
21:46:05  <Accatyyc> :o enlighten me
21:46:24  <Rubidium> you're missing some .grf
21:46:32  <Accatyyc> oh
21:46:51  <Accatyyc> i googled for it and didn't find anything spectacular.. any clues?
21:47:31  <andythenorth>
21:48:22  <Accatyyc> thx :) i have the industrial stations renewal but it didn't do the trick
21:48:38  <frosch123> isr can show piles of cargo
21:48:45  <Accatyyc> yeah i noticed
21:48:51  <Accatyyc> i want the crowds of people though
21:48:59  <asilv> people are not really an industrial cargo...
21:49:15  <Accatyyc> really xD
21:49:18  <asilv> try newstations or canadian stations set
21:49:25  <Accatyyc> yep just found it
21:49:32  <andythenorth> no people in canstations
21:49:35  <andythenorth> far as I remember
21:49:41  <asilv> there are some
21:50:05  <asilv> not at the platplorms, but next to station buildings
21:50:14  <asilv> and parking lots have cars
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21:52:24  <asilv> wierd typo that platplorms, f is not anywhere near p or l
21:53:05  <Rubidium> well... it definitely depends on you keyboard layout
21:55:04  <andythenorth> right time for bed
21:55:19  <andythenorth> tomorrow I have to battle 28 varaction 2s
21:55:26  <andythenorth> so I need my beauty sleep
21:55:30  <andythenorth> good night
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22:06:18  <Ammler> he, TrueBrain, my first steps in openDUNE fail on missing answers for this nice quesitons, but else, very nice :-)
22:06:48  <Rubidium> "you need the ..."
22:06:56  <Ammler> yes :-P
22:07:59  <Ammler> a game, I missed...
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22:36:47  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r17792 /trunk/src/os/macosx/crashlog_osx.cpp: -Fix [FS#3261]: [OSX] Fix (bogus) compiler warnings related to printf argument checking.
22:36:50  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r17793 /trunk/src/video/cocoa/ (5 files): -Fix: [OSX] The splash image wasn't displayed if the Quartz video driver was used.
22:36:54  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r17794 /trunk/ (config.lib src/fontcache.cpp src/fontcache.h src/strings.cpp): -Feature: [OSX] Implement automatic fallback font selection for OSX.
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23:33:49  <AC6000> Sacro, u there?
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23:34:48  <Sacro> AC6000: indeed
23:35:05  <AC6000> sup?
23:35:10  <Sacro> not much, you?
23:35:12  *** Tefad_ is now known as Tefad
23:35:31  <AC6000> same, just trashed a 2 mile long intermodal train :P
23:37:09  <Sacro> heh, nice
23:37:41  <AC6000> 67 mph collision with a wall
23:38:42  <AC6000> oh, heres another from earlier :P
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23:53:04  <AC6000> up for some ottd sacro?
23:53:48  <Sacro> AC6000: nah, not tonight, going to bed soon
23:53:54  <Sacro> just waiting for a file copy to finish
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23:58:30  <AC6000> kk

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