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00:05:55 *** tokai [~tokai@p5B2B3834.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:08:34 *** De_Ghosty [~s@206-248-163-169.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:09:33 *** tokai [~tokai@p5B2B2BDA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 00:09:36 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 00:11:57 <Eddi|zuHause> 90% of the time on the computer is spent watchin the computer do things on its own 00:21:23 <break19> meh.. converting a bi-directional, blocking-signal style rail network, into a path-signal network = pain in the arse.. I've trashed 5 or 6 trains going "why the hell is he stopped there? the path is free! meh, force it" "wtf? why'd he choose -that- line? *crunch* 00:23:09 *** thepalm [~chatzilla@121.210.80.70] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]] 00:23:29 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 00:24:18 <ducky> at least you notice shit is fucked 00:24:44 <break19> I prefer dual (or triple) multi-directional tracks.. my main line is usually a double or triple.. the station feeders are where I go with 1way track signals.. gives my trains much more freedom.. it's a pain in the ass to figure out bad design tho. lol 00:25:10 <ducky> i was playing a game with a friend and i almost tanked my company when I didn't notice my massive oil train got stuck when i converted bidirectional to single directional 00:26:33 <break19> heh 00:26:45 <ducky> yup, definatly sit there planning track designs and go, "wow, i'm thinking harder than i do about calculus" 00:26:54 <break19> uh oh.. kwin is.. gone. lol 00:27:33 <break19> so, erm. brb.. 00:27:42 *** break19 [~kvirc@c-69-243-225-134.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: , sources date: 20090924, built on: 2009-10-14 09:11:00 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/] 00:28:59 *** Stoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:29:30 *** break19 [~kvirc@c-69-243-225-134.hsd1.al.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 00:34:29 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:36:04 <Eddi|zuHause> break19: what's the problem about that? just start it again... 00:37:03 <break19> Couldnt access a cli in the active login, alt-f2 didnt bring up either, so. lol 00:37:24 *** tokai [~tokai@p5B2B2BDA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:37:35 <Eddi|zuHause> then start it from a tty 00:37:45 <Eddi|zuHause> just set the DISPLAY variable 00:38:57 <break19> didnt think about it, besides, my session loads fast enough, that it takes about the same amount of time to relog kde, than switch vts, login, etc. 00:40:35 <Eddi|zuHause> but you kill sll processes 00:40:46 <Eddi|zuHause> *all 00:41:28 *** tokai [~tokai@p5B2B369A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 00:41:31 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 00:48:57 *** Stoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 00:55:55 *** KenjiE20|LT [~Kenji@host86-170-238-73.range86-170.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 00:55:55 *** Dred_furst` [~Dred@cpc3-pool3-0-0-cust999.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:56:13 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.22.31.126] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0] 00:58:33 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 01:03:59 *** Stoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:05:08 *** Stoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 01:05:29 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8CC3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:07:09 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:07:39 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 01:13:59 *** Stoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:16:39 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:18:12 *** Stoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 01:23:11 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 01:23:27 *** Vutral [~ss@p54A8F78F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:25:04 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [] 01:27:34 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:33:38 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 01:39:59 *** Stoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:39:59 *** TrainzStoffe is now known as Stoffe 02:08:41 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g227088177.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: *schiel*] 02:19:22 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@69.49.68.95] has joined #openttd 02:19:22 *** mikegrb_ is now known as mikegrb 02:32:47 *** Protagonist [~ss@p54A8B6E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:39:55 *** Vutral [~ss@p54A8F78F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:41:00 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@69.49.68.95] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: 540 seconds] 03:08:47 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:60ad:e6aa:ad5b:5bbe] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:18:57 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 03:30:50 *** KenjiE20|LT [~Kenji@host86-170-238-73.range86-170.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:39:58 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@host133-16.student.udel.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:46:15 *** De_Ghosty [~s@206-248-163-169.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 03:47:54 *** PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-168-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:56:57 *** nicfer1 [~Usuario@190.50.44.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:31:13 *** AC6000 [~AC6000@55-210.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 04:39:26 *** Utvik [~autvik@bjo2-1x-dhcp133.studby.uio.no] has left #openttd [] 04:44:35 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:47:16 *** zachanim1 [~zach@50A2FFAA.flatrate.dk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:47:32 *** zachanima [~zach@50A2FFAA.flatrate.dk] has joined #openttd 04:52:10 *** Muddy [muddy@playing.OpenTTD.no] has quit [Quit: changing servers] 04:52:19 *** Muddy [muddy@playing.OpenTTD.no] has joined #openttd 05:16:42 *** mynetdude [~mynetdude@70-1-76-135.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #openttd 05:18:51 <mynetdude> I have a couple questions and would like some advice on how to deal with trains on multiple tracks/multiple station platforms and routing. I suppose that's what waypoints are for, butt they still seem to get mixed up no matter what I do and sometimes trains take the high road or low road, the short way the long way, etc is there any way to curtail this nonsense? 05:31:02 <Rubidium> might be a problem with signalling; giving advice without knowing what's wrong is quite hard (if not impossible) though 05:31:18 *** ecke_ [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: ecke_] 05:34:41 <mynetdude> ok hold on 05:39:43 <mynetdude> well all my signals are two way I have entry/exit signals at junctions where a station is present or single track that has a station at the end 05:40:11 <mynetdude> maybe I should post my file so it can be looked at when conveinent for someone 05:40:46 <mynetdude> actually... is it possible to control which way a train goes at all times? if it isn't then my question about the problem is moot 05:43:58 <Rubidium> then start by making the signals one way :) 05:45:28 <Rubidium> read more about them at http://wiki.openttd.org/Signals / http://uwe.s2000.ws/ttdx/signal/ 05:46:32 <mynetdude> I'm aware of one way signals... but that means I'd have to make "turnaround" tracks so they can flip to the other side and go the other direction otherwise I'll have trains following each other all day 05:51:35 <mynetdude> what about those one way sigs that can be passed on the back side then they aren't truly one way anymore? 05:53:31 *** zachanim1 [~zach@50A2FFAA.flatrate.dk] has joined #openttd 05:57:33 *** MalibuKaribu [~ss@p54A8DADD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:58:52 <Eddi|zuHause> every signal has its uses, but also its problems 05:59:00 *** George [~George@212.113.107.216] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:59:58 <mynetdude> well I realize that, it isn't perfect 06:00:19 *** zachanima [~zach@50A2FFAA.flatrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:00:46 <mynetdude> as long as trains continue to pick whatever track they like another train going the other way will get stuck on a reserved signal block 06:01:30 <Eddi|zuHause> but if you say you have problems with twoway signals, the most likely cause is the setting "treat red twoway as end of line" 06:02:22 <mynetdude> I don't think I have that option, never seen it 06:02:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i believe it's only available from the console 06:03:12 <Eddi|zuHause> "pf.yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol" or something 06:03:59 *** George [~George@212.113.107.216] has joined #openttd 06:04:06 <mynetdude> oh 06:04:09 *** Protagonist [~ss@p54A8B6E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:04:27 <mynetdude> so I don't want a two way red treated as end of line... that makes no sense 06:05:18 <Eddi|zuHause> "end of line" means "don't ever consider going there" 06:05:31 <mynetdude> I thought the idea was if I had a layout where a train wanted a specific reservation couldn't get it would pick a different reservation so it could continue to its destination without getting stuck otherwise when two trains reserve a section only one will make it in and the other will stop at the red because a train is already in that block 06:05:45 <Eddi|zuHause> means "search alternative route even if it is much longer" 06:06:04 <mynetdude> so I DO want to treat all reds as EOL that's bad if I want trains to wait for a platform at exit/entry signals 06:07:08 <mynetdude> I'll just live with it... its a thought so thanks :) 06:07:29 <Eddi|zuHause> usually you (meaning I) want them not to be treated as EOL, but with a large penalty instead 06:08:08 <Eddi|zuHause> just flip the setting, and see if your trains behave better then, you can always revert to the savegame in case it does not work 06:09:55 <mynetdude> I understand... but if the reds are treated as EOL then trains are going to just turn around as soon as they hit the red signal because its treated as EOL and I don't want this when they are waiting for a platform, at intersections this isn't a problem because a train can then be rerouted on another track (every intersection I designed goes somewhere else and leads to their destination at some point on the map). 06:11:28 <Eddi|zuHause> it's on by default, and nobody listens to me that the general newbie rather wants it off ;) 06:13:07 <mynetdude> alright well let me try it, can't hurt 06:13:27 <mynetdude> how can I find out what the command is? 06:13:48 <Eddi|zuHause> list_cmds and list_settings or so 06:13:57 <mynetdude> ok thanks :) 06:13:58 *** thepalm [~chatzilla@121.210.80.70] has joined #openttd 06:15:32 <mynetdude> Eddi|zuHause those worked, but I can't scroll up in console???? 06:15:38 <mynetdude> all i see is network commands 06:15:41 <mynetdude> err settings 06:16:00 <Eddi|zuHause> then try "list_settings pf.yapf.rail" 06:16:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the setting names also correspond to the ones found in openttd.cfg 06:17:28 <mynetdude> oh! ok didn't know that 06:18:38 <Eddi|zuHause> and usually console scrolling is with shift+arrow 06:19:06 <mynetdude> file doesn't exist... or I have no clue where to look i checked the openttd folder 06:20:00 <Eddi|zuHause> the places to look for are mentioned in the readme 06:20:03 <mynetdude> I see a bunch of settings for first red 06:20:40 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, two penalties and one for eol 06:21:26 <mynetdude> pf.yapf.rail.firstred_twoway_eol=on 06:21:31 <mynetdude> the others are penalty like you said 06:21:40 <mynetdude> what do penalties do exactly? 06:22:08 <Eddi|zuHause> they tell the pathfinder how much detour they should consider for going around it 06:22:22 <Eddi|zuHause> one tile detour == penalty of 100 06:23:11 <mynetdude> so the higher the detour the better? 06:23:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i gtg 06:23:40 <mynetdude> sorry, I hope this be my last question how do I tell it to switch that setting "off" 06:23:50 <mynetdude> ok tyvm for your help :) 06:23:55 <Eddi|zuHause> with "set <setting> off" 06:24:35 <Rubidium> set sleep on 06:25:25 <mynetdude> telling me its an unknown setting 06:25:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm actually going out today... 06:25:38 <Eddi|zuHause> mynetdude: then you mistyped it 06:25:39 <mynetdude> well its GOOD to get out :) 06:25:44 <Eddi|zuHause> check for _ and . mixup 06:34:16 <mynetdude> wow it hates me... cuz putting set pf.yapf.rail.firstred_twoway_eol isn't liked 06:34:33 *** andythenorth [~andy@host217-44-52-189.range217-44.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 06:35:14 <mynetdude> blah found the problem 06:42:29 <mynetdude> works a lot better 06:42:58 <mynetdude> noticed some trains don't even turn around anymore either some still do and take odd routes but as long as they are going where they are supposed to be it works 06:47:44 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:21:30 *** nicfer1 [~Usuario@190.50.62.41] has joined #openttd 07:22:38 *** boekabart [~boekabart@ip218-114-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 07:23:36 <boekabart> good morning vietnam! 07:23:45 <boekabart> (and the rest of the world too) 07:34:58 *** nicfer1 [~Usuario@190.50.62.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:45:43 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:47:02 *** Terkhen [~terkhen@63.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 07:49:14 <Terkhen> good morning 07:52:34 *** Protagonist [~ss@p54A8E9BF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:53:05 <andythenorth> morning 07:59:34 *** MalibuKaribu [~ss@p54A8DADD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:01:52 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C71A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:22:24 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:29:40 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@254.70.200-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd 08:33:01 *** Muxy [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has joined #openttd 08:36:51 *** boekabart [~boekabart@ip218-114-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 08:40:06 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has joined #openttd 08:48:15 *** Terkhen [~terkhen@63.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...] 08:48:27 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:51:06 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@63.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 08:51:46 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C71A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:52:02 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@host133-16.student.udel.edu] has joined #openttd 08:53:57 *** boekabart [~boekabart@ip218-114-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 08:59:07 *** hickop [~hickop@AGrenoble-257-1-44-135.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 08:59:26 <Rhamphoryncus> oi. Power station I'm using getting closed with FIRS 09:00:06 <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: FIRS is a work in progress :) 09:03:36 <Rhamphoryncus> apparently :) 09:03:56 <Rhamphoryncus> And I've seen it reported before, so I'm not too worried. Just griping :) 09:04:05 <Rhamphoryncus> more annoyed at the pathing signal issues I continue to have 09:04:06 <hickop> hi , how can i increase my font size in game ? when i set small_size = 16 it increase the area the text is but not the font 09:05:24 <Alberth> also change the used font 09:06:00 <hickop> i did change the fonts to terminus 09:06:47 <Alberth> at least at Linux, a font also has a height. this must match with the small_size that you set. 09:07:41 <Alberth> as a warning, adding support for changing font size is a work in progress, you will find that at least half the windows do not resize properly 09:08:04 <hickop> ok 09:08:24 <Alberth> (and if you use 0.7.x there is no support :) ) 09:09:08 <hickop> i use latest svn 09:09:31 <Alberth> ok 09:09:43 <hickop> but whatever size i set it just resize the input boxes or buttons, not the font :/ 09:10:41 <Alberth> I do something like http://paste.openttd.org/217442 09:11:04 <Alberth> notice the corresponding values of the *_size and the B* in the font path 09:12:16 <hickop> ok , seams to work with verdana 09:12:50 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 09:13:32 <Alberth> expect loads of window glitches 09:14:08 <hickop> at least i wont get headaches reading those tiny fonts anymore ^^ 09:17:59 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d199-126-251-5.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 09:19:34 *** Stoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:19:34 *** TrainzStoffe is now known as Stoffe 09:20:18 <Alberth> does a primary industry with more than one cargo being produced exist (ie an industry where you can cheat with the production level of more than one cargo)? 09:20:32 <andythenorth> farms? 09:20:41 <Alberth> doh 09:20:44 <andythenorth> produce livestock and grain :D 09:20:45 <Alberth> thanks 09:20:52 <andythenorth> here to help 09:20:56 <andythenorth> ;) 09:21:25 <andythenorth> Meanwhile, designing production for processing industries is a lot more complicated than I thought 09:21:33 <andythenorth> Who's idea was this anyway :| 09:22:57 <andythenorth> I remember, it was mine :P 09:23:44 <andythenorth> Nice to see that players have for themselves reinvented what FISH means :) 09:24:17 <andythenorth> Although they have invented for themselves a possible meaning which I put in the very first post about the set :D 09:24:35 <andythenorth> nothing like a good recursive acronym 09:27:28 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd 09:27:44 <Alberth> so you are making your own life difficult with the processing industry :) 09:28:08 *** worldemar [~woldemar@62.106.104.135] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:28:47 <Alberth> if users can re-invent the meaning, it looks like a good name ;) 09:37:20 <hickop> is there a way to always have the transparency window active when i create/load a game ? 09:38:02 <Yexo> good morning 09:39:25 <Yexo> hickop: not without changing the source code 09:39:44 *** worldemar [~woldemar@188.122.227.57] has joined #openttd 09:41:21 <Rubidium> Yexo: you can teach a monkey to open the window when loading/creating a game 09:41:38 <Yexo> nice idea :) 09:42:08 <hickop> what if you have a cat and no monkey ? 09:42:50 <Rubidium> with hypnosis make the cat think it's a monkey 09:43:23 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DC5B3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:43:32 *** fjb [~frank@p5485FA4B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:47:14 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db877b9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:48:05 <Alberth> good morning 09:52:02 <TrueBrain> Ammler: well, it is an open source version of dune2, this includes the security question of course. Else it would be a modifidated version of dune2 ;) 09:59:42 *** LordAzamath [~stabuinte@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 10:07:25 <andythenorth> uh oh, I've invented production code that is really really definitely going to need registers *and* the text stack 10:07:27 <andythenorth> grr 10:07:46 <andythenorth> both of those things scare me 10:09:09 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:09:53 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has joined #openttd 10:09:56 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 10:10:29 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g227088177.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 10:13:16 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 10:13:20 *** LordAzamath [~stabuinte@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]] 10:23:29 *** tokai [~tokai@p5B2B369A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:25:44 *** tokai [~tokai@p5B2B0E95.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:25:47 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 10:26:07 *** andythenorth [~andy@host217-44-52-189.range217-44.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 10:32:12 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@82-32-243-15.cable.ubr11.newt.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:56:17 *** _ln [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:56:51 *** _ln [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd 10:58:34 *** Steve^ [~steve@92.40.231.124.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:59:40 <Steve^> Why is cargodest not in the main download? 11:02:47 <Steve^> Last merge from trunk was at the end of 2008, so I'm a little worried about the features I'll lose by downloading cargodest 11:03:06 <Rubidium> what about: it's not finished and it's buggy? 11:04:25 <Steve^> what's the plan to fix that? 11:05:03 <Rubidium> there isn't any 11:05:09 <Steve^> the wiki lists a single known problem and it isn't a serious one 11:08:01 <Rubidium> Steve^: http://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?string=&project=1&type[]=5&sev[]=&pri[]=&due[]=&reported[]=&cat[]=&status[]=open&percent[]=&opened=&dev=&closed=&duedatefrom=&duedateto=&changedfrom=&changedto=&openedfrom=&openedto=&closedfrom=&closedto=&do=index 11:13:47 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAEaca8.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 11:15:18 <planetmaker> Steve^: certainly not every single problem gets put into a _wiki_ 11:15:28 <planetmaker> if - at all - you should go through the bug tracker. 11:15:43 <planetmaker> but even that will not be comprehensive as it is not an "official" version 11:15:58 <Steve^> sure, but the wiki doesn't exactly scream that it is unstable 11:16:08 <Steve^> it actually looked more positive than I expected 11:16:32 <planetmaker> Steve^: what purpose would have a sentence saying "this patch is unstable"? 11:17:17 <planetmaker> it's a development branch after all. Work in progress 11:17:27 <Steve^> maybe it would inspire me to test it 11:17:28 <planetmaker> and not a release version 11:17:47 <planetmaker> all patches are - kind of per definition - work in progress 11:17:47 <Steve^> This patch is unstable. Please download the latest version here and submit bugs here. 11:18:00 <planetmaker> that's the default, isn't it? 11:19:17 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has joined #openttd 11:19:29 *** tokai [~tokai@p5B2B0E95.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:19:40 * Rubidium wonders where he said unstable, but okay... nevertheless, what good is testing a patch/branch that has more or less been abandoned by its creator? 11:19:52 <planetmaker> indeed 11:20:24 <planetmaker> and no-one said "unstable" anywhere. I guess that's the point here, Rubidium :-) 11:20:37 <planetmaker> My point, though, is: patches need testing by default. 11:21:41 *** tokai [~tokai@p5B2B0C25.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:21:44 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 11:22:24 <Steve^> you said it was buggy 11:22:43 <Steve^> everything has bugs, but buggy implies that it affects the playability 11:23:14 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.22.31.126] has joined #openttd 11:24:32 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:26:12 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has joined #openttd 11:37:07 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@host133-16.student.udel.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:38:47 <Chris_Booth> Rubidium: i added comments to FS#3271 11:39:14 <Rubidium> so it's very likely that it's already fixed 11:39:27 <Chris_Booth> i can test it in lastest nightly 11:39:31 <Chris_Booth> i am sure it hasnt 11:41:09 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAEaca8.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:41:30 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAEaca8.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 11:45:39 <Chris_Booth> Rubidium: yeah i am going to close report it has been fixed 11:48:06 <Rubidium> I hope this teaches to try to reproduce in the latest nightly before reporting it :) 11:51:39 <Chris_Booth> I have learnt nothing 11:51:50 <Chruker> nevar! 11:52:45 *** thepalm [~chatzilla@121.210.80.70] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]] 12:08:11 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C71A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:08:34 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:b16a:7e6f:1718:9e49] has joined #openttd 12:08:37 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:09:25 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aejo15.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 12:12:29 *** tokai [~tokai@p5B2B0C25.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:15:07 *** tokai [~tokai@p5B2B0B90.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:15:11 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 12:15:19 <Ammler> Chris_Booth: also planetmaker mentioned the fix ;-) 12:18:17 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tsch?ss] 12:43:03 *** andythenorth [~andy@host217-44-52-189.range217-44.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 12:45:38 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-221-198.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 12:56:33 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 12:58:48 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [] 13:03:52 <_ln> what are the possible consequences in Germany for a motorist who doesn't stop in front of a zebra crossing with pedestrians about to cross the street? 13:04:13 <Alberth> nicely on-topic 13:04:55 <_ln> germany has always been on-topic here. 13:09:36 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@82-32-243-15.cable.ubr11.newt.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:18:16 *** Grelouk_ [~Grelouk@17.146.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd 13:18:25 <hickop> i made some TL8 trains , but they never go for servicing. here is my service line: http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/306/servicev.png, what is wrong ? 13:20:38 <andythenorth> anyone want to go on an nfo Text adventure? 13:20:45 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=45537 13:21:01 <andythenorth> *may be misleading ;) 13:21:33 *** boekabart [~boekabart@ip218-114-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 13:21:35 <Rubidium> hickop: basically the path signals (FS#2955) 13:22:10 <hickop> Rubidium: even with normal signals they wont go to the depot 13:23:56 <Rubidium> then the pathfinder penalty is more than 16 straight non-signaled tiles; corners/(red) signals have a higher penalty. Also a train running on the track causes a penalty 13:24:19 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@254.70.200-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:24:19 <Rubidium> besides that there's also the setting that disables automatic servicing when breakdowns are turned off 13:24:55 *** boekabart [~boekabart@ip218-114-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 13:26:52 <hickop> pathfinder penalty ? 13:30:10 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@g226155023.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 13:35:16 <Alberth> The pathfinder finds the route for the trains. It assigns penalty points to 'obstacles', such as signs, sharp corners, etc. Together with the distance needed to travel, it decides the best path. 13:36:16 <Alberth> ie it will avoid a sharp corner, unless it is very much shorter 13:36:32 *** andythenorth [~andy@host217-44-52-189.range217-44.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:36:36 <Alberth> (or unless there is no other route :) ) 13:37:01 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd368.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:37:40 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g227088177.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:37:40 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 13:39:12 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17795 /trunk/src/ (cargopacket.cpp cargopacket.h station_base.h vehicle_base.h): -Codechange: split cargolist into one for vehicles and one for stations. 13:40:23 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17796 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Move drawing of the industry info to its own function. 13:43:20 <hickop> so my trains will never go for service unless i put a depot right on the track ? 13:47:20 <hickop> hooo i think trains takes my depot as a 90? turn, and i forbid that, that explains it ! 13:49:54 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 13:53:14 <fjb> _ln: 50EUR penalty and 4 points (with 18 points accumulated you are losing your licence). 13:56:23 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17797 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use parameters of new function, introduce constants for hardcoded numbers. 13:57:19 *** Stoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:57:19 *** TrainzStoffe is now known as Stoffe 13:58:09 <_ln> fjb: thanks. and is there an actual risk of getting caught doing that? 13:58:33 <fjb> _ln: Yes. 13:58:54 <_ln> ok. cool. 13:59:36 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17798 /trunk/src/ (industry_gui.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: Introduce new constant WD_PAR_VSEP_WIDE for large amount of space between text. 13:59:56 <fjb> _ln: http://www.kfz.net/bussgeldkatalog/ 14:01:56 <_ln> over here, no penalty, and i doubt the police has even ever stopped anyone for that. 14:04:12 *** DeGhost [~s@CPE0040caacdf99-CM0011ae8a728e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 14:05:30 <fjb> _ln: There were cases where a driver hat to pay the penalty when driving over the zebra crossing behind the pedestrians which where still on the crossing without slowing down. 14:07:21 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 14:07:23 <_ln> nice 14:07:44 <Eddi|zuHause> <_ln> what are the possible consequences in Germany for a motorist who doesn't stop in front of a zebra crossing with pedestrians about to cross the street? <- i'd guess it's the same as cutting someone's right of way at a stop sign 14:08:27 <SpComb> possible consequences include driving over them 14:08:51 <Eddi|zuHause> but germany probably has one of the most regulated traffic systems in the world 14:09:13 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 14:10:17 *** AC6000 [~AC6000@55-210.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 14:10:30 *** Pikka [~user@58.173.248.50] has joined #openttd 14:11:11 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: alberth * r17799 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: industry view window uses pure nested widgets. 14:11:31 <Eddi|zuHause> <fjb> _ln: 50EUR penalty and 4 points (with 18 points accumulated you are losing your licence). <- the site you linked to says 80EUR 14:12:34 <_ln> on a finnish zebra crossing you cannot really assume anyone to stop unless you have stepped on the street and they would collide with you otherwise. even then, the driver may choose to just drive around you on the left lane. 14:14:12 <_ln> there are some rare exceptions, but that's the normal way of things. 14:15:46 <Eddi|zuHause> actually, cutting someone on a stop sign is cheaper, 50EUR and 3 points 14:17:16 <_ln> one group within the rare exceptions are cars with yellow stars and the letter "D" on their license plate. 14:18:52 *** PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-168-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 14:19:57 <_ln> do those earned points expire sooner or later? 14:21:34 *** b_jonas [~x@dsl51B61893.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 14:21:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, there are (expensive) seminars you can take to reduce the points, if you get close to the limit, and they expire when you got no points during 2 years 14:21:46 <SpComb> usually when I'm trying to cross a street I tend to assume that I'm in no hurry and just wait for the cars to drive past 14:21:54 <SpComb> it's kind of annoying when someone then stops 14:24:36 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aejo15.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [] 14:25:22 *** dikzak [3efb65d9@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 14:25:31 <_ln> SpComb: and typically it's the last car of a long queue who stops, and with all the braking and pedestring looking is-he-really-going-to-stop, it would have been quicker for everyone not to stop. 14:26:03 <dikzak> hi, i'm trying to play openttd over the e-net with a friend, but we can't get it to work, i did portforward and it should work, any idea what's wrong? 14:26:38 <SpComb> _ln: or another car is going in the opposite direction and doesn't seem to be stopping 14:27:37 <Eddi|zuHause> that's the benefit of clear rules. because germans will actually insist on their right to pass 14:28:01 <dikzak> ehrm, help? 14:28:23 <Eddi|zuHause> dikzak: "it doesn't work" is no error description 14:28:38 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17800 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: first steps into making CargoList a template 14:28:38 <Eddi|zuHause> in 95% of the cases it's port forwarding or firewall 14:30:49 <Alberth> dikzak: you need to open both TCP and UDP 14:30:49 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17801 /trunk/src/ (cargopacket.cpp cargopacket.h): -Codechange: for StationCargoLists the 'loaded_at_xy' does not matter when merging CargoPackets 14:31:03 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Write error: connection closed] 14:31:14 <_ln> it's also terribly common that on a street with two lanes to the same direction, when a car actually stops in front of the zebra, the bonehead driving the other lane will not stop. 14:31:23 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 14:31:23 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@g226155023.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 14:31:23 *** worldemar [~woldemar@188.122.227.57] has quit [Quit: worldemar] 14:32:13 <_ln> although stopping is always mandatory in that case (unless there are traffic lights). 14:32:26 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 14:32:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.201.45] has joined #openttd 14:33:10 <dikzak> Alberth: i have, it says my server is offline... 14:33:16 <Eddi|zuHause> zebra on multi-lane roads? you should fire the traffic planner 14:33:39 <SpComb> _ln: yes, and that's where people die 14:34:14 <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: unfortunately common, in Helsinki there's a couple places where there's a big 'ol zebra crossing across four lanes of traffic and a tram line or something equally ridiculous 14:34:34 <Alberth> you see network traffic at your computer? did you disable the firewall for that port? 14:34:56 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@cpc3-pool3-0-0-cust999.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 14:35:30 <SpComb> (without any lights) 14:35:51 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C71A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:42 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 14:37:58 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.201.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:38:23 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g226155023.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:38:23 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 14:38:37 <_ln> is it even true that in .de you could write down the license plate of a non-stopper and report that to the police and get a penalty for him/her? 14:38:48 <dikzak> Alberth: how should i 'see' traffic, and my firewall is disabled 14:39:38 <Alberth> LEDs at the back of your machine or at your router? 14:40:16 <dikzak> Alberth: only all the time, so that won't tell me much 14:40:43 <dikzak> Alberth: but nvm, i'll try it again some other time 14:40:44 <Alberth> so how does it not work? 14:40:56 <Alberth> did your friend use your IP address? 14:41:30 <KenjiE20> <Webster> Server at a62-251-101-217.adsl.xs4all.nl:3979 is not up (timed out) <-- clearly not forwarded quite right 14:41:40 <dikzak> Alberth: yes 14:43:16 <Alberth> just in case: you need to enable forwarding at your router. 14:43:28 <fjb> _ln: Yes, if you have enough witnesses. 14:43:32 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-221-198.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:43:34 <dikzak> Alberth: i have... 14:43:44 <dikzak> Alberth: nopt the first time i portforwarded... 14:43:44 *** Stoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:43:44 *** TrainzStoffe is now known as Stoffe 14:43:56 <Alberth> ok, just making sure 14:46:28 <dikzak> ah, crap, i'm trying to make an ai(just following the tut on the wiki), but it doesn't show up in-game :-/ 14:50:32 <dikzak> help? 14:52:21 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.115.29.213.plusnet.pcl-ag01.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 14:52:33 <Alberth> (04:29:24 PM) Eddi|zuHause: dikzak: "it doesn't work" is no error description <-- that still holds, you don't provide any information to examine 14:53:07 <Alberth> andythenorth: do you know about this warning? dbg: [grf] [heqs__heavy_equipment_set_.0.5c/heqs.grf:2774] NewSpriteGroup (Deterministic): Invalid pseudo sprite length 12 (expected 14)! 14:53:20 <dikzak> Alberth: what part of 'it doesn't show up in-game' don't you understand? i put it in the ai folder, and it just doesnt show up in the ai list 14:54:24 <andythenorth> Alberth: looks like I miscounted some bytes some where. 0.5e is the current release, 0.5c is unsupported 14:54:41 <andythenorth> however if the same error is reproducible with 0.5e I'll fix it 14:55:11 *** worldemar [~woldemar@188.122.232.212] has joined #openttd 14:56:41 <Alberth> dikzak: basically, you say 'something at my computer is wrong'. My remote sensing capabilities are not good enough to deduce that you must do X different. We need details of what you do exactly, what error it gives, what you expect to happen, etc. In other words, enough information so we can reproduce the problem if we like. Until then it is just random guessing what you may do or not do. 14:57:19 <Alberth> andythenorth: ok, 0.5c seemed to be the latest in bananas, hence I asked about this version. 14:57:34 <PeterT> What's the problem? 14:57:48 <dikzak> Alberth: i'm following the tut on the wiki(http://wiki.openttd.org/AI:Introduction) i created the main.nut and info.nut file in OpenTTD\content_download\ai\testai\ 14:58:12 <andythenorth> Alberth: I should update Bananas in that case 14:58:19 *** CIA-9 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #openttd 14:58:31 <andythenorth> I love bananas. But I hate keeping it up to date 14:59:08 <PeterT> But it's easier that keeping GRFCrawler up-to-date 14:59:42 <Alberth> andythenorth: no problem, I am not much of a NewGRF user anyway :) 15:00:03 *** CIA-4 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:00:09 <Lakie> As far as I can tell, PeterT, GrfCrawler has issues with tt-forums database (and thus user auth). 15:00:13 <dikzak> dikzak: oh, and it would help if you told me what you'd like to know(help me help you help me :P) 15:00:18 <Lakie> Thus keeping things upto date on it is hard 15:00:31 <PeterT> Did you get my message? 15:00:59 <Lakie> Yes, and as I just said, I can't alter anything on grfcrawler 15:01:04 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.115.29.213.plusnet.pcl-ag01.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 15:01:19 <PeterT> No? 15:01:26 <PeterT> Can orudge? 15:01:42 <Lakie> Possibly, but he has other things to do 15:02:21 <PeterT> I wasn't making a request, just wondering. 15:02:45 <Alberth> dikzak: all data you have made, such as complete program code would be a start (use a pastebin plz, eg pastebin.openttd.org), include version number, etc etc. 15:03:05 <PeterT> Ok well, I found a new download for the GRF anyway 15:03:07 <PeterT> thanks 15:03:16 <PeterT> (Oh and nice job!) 15:03:24 <dikzak> Alberth: oh, and it would help if you told me what you'd like to know(help me help you help me ) 15:04:11 <Alberth> dikzak: not that I can say much about AIs, but there are others that can. Like me, they need enough information to try what you are doing at your machine themselves 15:04:35 <Alberth> (05:03:45 PM) Alberth: dikzak: all data you have made, such as complete program code would be a start (use a pastebin plz, eg pastebin.openttd.org), include version number, etc etc. <-- this was the answer 15:05:06 <Alberth> or is that not clean? 15:05:11 <Alberth> s/clean/clear/ 15:05:28 *** Pikka [~user@58.173.248.50] has left #openttd [] 15:06:51 <dikzak> Alberth: http://pastebin.com/m17b2af1a all in the OpenTTD\content_download\ai\testai folder 15:07:19 <dikzak> Alberth: openttd version 0.7.3.17678 15:07:50 <Alberth> ok 15:08:46 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@63.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:09:36 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@63.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 15:12:41 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@63.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [] 15:13:55 *** welshdragon [~markjones@client-86-31-97-143.popl.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:14:17 <Alberth> dikzak: if you use a different class name, do it consistently: info.nut: "class testai" vs "RegisterAI(MyNewAI());" main.nut: "class testai" vs "MyNewAI::Start()" 15:14:39 <dikzak> Alberth: oops, let's if that fixes it :-) 15:15:27 *** Terkhen [~terkhen@63.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 15:17:00 <dikzak> Alberth: that fixes nothing, replaced that in two places :-? 15:21:32 <b_jonas> argh. I must buy yellow company now 15:22:10 *** worldemar [~woldemar@188.122.232.212] has quit [Quit: worldemar] 15:22:15 *** worldemar [~woldemar@188.122.232.212] has joined #openttd 15:24:23 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm7.epsilon180.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 15:28:04 *** DeGhost [~s@CPE0040caacdf99-CM0011ae8a728e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 15:28:49 <Alberth> dikzak: I get these warnings: dbg: [ai] The AI 'testai' returned a string from GetShortName() which is not four characaters. Unable to load the AI. 15:29:32 * SpComb returns ???? from GetShortName 15:30:02 *** PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-168-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: I'm off] 15:30:38 <AC6000> mornin everyone :) 15:32:12 <Alberth> dikzak: also, the name of the class and the name of the directory should be the same, it seems. 15:32:48 * Alberth goes making some dinner now 15:32:49 <dikzak> Alberth: it is... 15:33:16 * dikzak thinks that that was the greatestest english ever 15:33:25 *** dikzak [3efb65d9@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 15:35:42 *** George [~George@212.113.107.216] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:36:43 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r17802 /trunk/src/ (industry_gui.cpp lang/english.txt newgrf_text.cpp): -Feature(ette) [FS#1862]: [NewGRF] Textstack support for CB 37. 15:38:39 <fonsinchen> "for StationCargoLists the 'loaded_at_xy' does not matter when merging CargoPackets" ... indeed. This might further reduce the number of packets in stations. Nice. 15:41:28 *** George [~George@212.113.107.216] has joined #openttd 15:43:29 *** tokai [~tokai@p5B2B0B90.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:45:45 *** tokai [~tokai@p5B2B068F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:45:48 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 15:46:04 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:46:07 *** StarLionIsaac [~isaac@87.115.128.52] has joined #openttd 15:49:32 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@58.173.248.50] has joined #openttd 15:57:56 *** Steve^ [~steve@92.40.231.124.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:03:31 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.115.29.213.plusnet.pcl-ag01.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 16:04:46 <andythenorth> evening 16:05:04 <Forked> greetings 16:06:31 <andythenorth> would any of you good folks care to delve into the text stack with me (specifically the nfo side of that business)? 16:08:02 <andythenorth> or to put it another way, help :O 16:08:13 <andythenorth> :) 16:11:23 <_ln> quite a beginning in Formula 1. 16:11:30 <Chruker> yeah 16:15:21 <Sacro> #f1 if you wanna chat 16:16:27 <andythenorth> Pikka: is this little beauty sticking something on the text stack? 16:16:36 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttd.org/217448 16:16:40 <andythenorth> (scuse the pastebin, it has html-quoted some characters) 16:16:43 <frosch123> andythenorth: "To use entry X in an include text (codes 80/81), use ID D400+X. Note that if you want to include ID D000/D400, the 00 byte will be considered the end of string in action 4, this will therefore break if additional texts are supposed to follow in the action 4." <- that is the important part 16:16:44 <Sacro> _ln: jooooin us ;P 16:17:24 <andythenorth> frosch123: is that on the wiki? Maybe I need glasses :) 16:17:33 <frosch123> it is somewhat hidden :p 16:17:41 <frosch123> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=TextIDs#D000_Miscellaneous_GRF_texts 16:18:49 <frosch123> ˇˇˇˇ <- what is char 711 ? 16:19:13 <andythenorth> ? 16:20:00 <frosch123> err, you are not trying to specify the text to insert in the varaction2, are you? 16:20:30 <frosch123> all "blabla" have to go into action4s 16:21:31 <andythenorth> frosch123: I haven't tried to specify anything yet for this, I am confused first of all about the structure of the code :) 16:21:37 <andythenorth> and second of all about the actual code 16:21:43 <andythenorth> and third of all...no there is no third 16:22:04 <andythenorth> I have two goals 16:22:28 *** FR^2 [frr@frquadrat.de] has joined #openttd 16:22:46 <andythenorth> 1. prevent unnecessary text ID use by joining sub strings (depending on results of a varaction 2) 16:23:12 <andythenorth> 2. print into the industry window so I can actually see the values of variables or contents of registers 16:23:51 <andythenorth> I don't really trust my code because there's no way to know if it's working, only if it crashes the game :) 16:24:00 <frosch123> http://paste.openttd.org/217449 <- you need something like that 16:24:33 <andythenorth> yes indeed 16:26:19 <andythenorth> can the action 2 part be done in just one action 2? 16:27:03 <frosch123> depends on what decides what text to insert 16:27:43 <andythenorth> lets say it's cargo waiting (it may as well be), so we're checking var 40 of industry 16:27:55 <frosch123> the storing and returning can be done in one varact2 16:28:14 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d199-126-251-5.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 16:28:22 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttd.org/217450 16:28:24 <andythenorth> for example 16:28:30 <frosch123> so you want to print something like "too much" or "gimme more" 16:28:56 <andythenorth> yep 16:29:04 <andythenorth> lets say they are IDs (checks) 16:29:35 *** StarLionIsaac [~isaac@87.115.128.52] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:30:08 <frosch123> well, i guess it is easier to use one action2 for every text to insert 16:30:12 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:30:39 <George> Rubidium: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=34758&start=340 16:30:54 <andythenorth> IDs would be in the D0x range (or do they have to be in D4x?) 16:31:15 <andythenorth> D0xD0 and D0xD1 for example 16:31:39 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r17803 /trunk/src/autoreplace_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Remove update_(left|right) in favour of the rebuild flag of GUIList. 16:31:59 *** JH-Q [~J@a88-115-41-126.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 16:32:15 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 16:32:30 <frosch123> andythenorth: the D0xx and D4xx thingie is totally messed up. They mean the same strings, but in some places you have to use D0xx and in some D4xx. 16:32:31 <JH-Q> hello 16:32:50 <George> Rubidium: People can't build fishing grounds since r17605-17633 16:32:53 <andythenorth> So when I create them with an action 4, it's ok that they are D0xx ? 16:33:03 <frosch123> they have to be :p 16:33:10 <andythenorth> ok 16:33:12 <JH-Q> a player is blocking my construction on multiplayer server, what should i do? 16:33:51 <Ammler> JH-Q: build around 16:34:09 <JH-Q> my company is over 300x wealthier than his, but i wouldn't want to start a fight 16:34:13 <Ammler> or ask the other player to rebuild his part 16:34:21 <JH-Q> hes away 16:34:42 <JH-Q> and his rails aren't built for purpose, just thrown around land which i own 16:34:57 <JH-Q> maybe i'll just build a tunnel under them and hope he goes away 16:34:57 <Ammler> ask admin to reset his company 16:35:09 <JH-Q> how do i contact admin? 16:35:20 <Ammler> google server name 16:35:40 <andythenorth> frosch123: so to push an ID in the D4x range onto the stack.... 16:36:08 <andythenorth> ...do I check ranges in the usual way and then use 0E and some AND logic that still baffles me? 16:36:15 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAEaca8.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:21 <andythenorth> ...or do I need to compare values with the advanced action 2 operators? 16:40:04 <frosch123> http://paste.openttd.org/217452 <- for inserting a single text 16:40:05 * Pikka has no idea about the text stack :) 16:41:36 <andythenorth> Pikka: well learning is fun, no? :) 16:41:54 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8D68.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:41:56 <andythenorth> frosch123: that last paste makes sense 16:42:01 <Pikka> of course :) but I'm concentrating on other things at the moment :P 16:42:55 <andythenorth> frosch123: so I don't have to care about a register number? The text stack 'just knows' when a D4x ID is pointed its way? 16:43:27 * andythenorth off to write some code 16:43:38 <andythenorth> inevitable questions about ANDing will follow.... 16:43:41 <andythenorth> RUN AWAY!! 16:44:12 <Pikka> :o 16:45:13 <frosch123> andythenorth: 0x100 is the register 16:45:53 <andythenorth> oops 16:46:00 * andythenorth embarassed 16:46:14 <frosch123> if you have more than one text to insert you will need more registers, and likely you will also have to put different stuff into the same register (that is where the fun starts) 16:46:52 <Muxy> @seen luukland 16:46:52 <DorpsGek> Muxy: luukland was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 22 hours, 27 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <Luukland> Anyways, thx for the answer, pls next time hold the sarcasm Belugas, dont be such an ass to ppl who just ask normal questions 16:47:10 <Muxy> oops 16:47:35 <frosch123> was he banned afterwards? :p 16:47:47 <Muxy> let me check the logs 16:50:30 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 16:53:18 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-144-134-197-194.prem.tmns.net.au] has joined #openttd 16:54:27 <andythenorth> frosch123: to stay out of the "nvar=0 pit"...do I set nvar=0 or not? 16:54:35 <andythenorth> sorry if that should be obvious 16:55:07 <frosch123> no, you have to use nvar >= 1 16:55:17 <frosch123> but return the same in both cases 16:55:57 <Rhamphoryncus> How do I tweak the pathfinder variables? I can't find it on the wiki 16:56:06 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:57:01 *** duckedtapedemon [~quassel@76.92.236.189] has joined #openttd 16:57:56 *** Steve^ [~steve@92.40.114.24.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:58:03 <Alberth> Rhamphoryncus: there appears to be a [pf] section in openttd.cfg 16:58:36 <Rhamphoryncus> I just remembered that ~ brings up the console, so now I'm getting decent search results 16:59:34 <frosch123> or ingame: open console, type "list_settings" and change them via "setting" or so 17:00:03 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C71A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:00:36 <Steve^> Is there a way to convert an entire rail network into a monorail network? 17:00:43 <Steve^> I recall TTDPatch had a cheat for it 17:01:04 <frosch123> you can convert the tracks with three clicks, but not the trains 17:01:21 <Rhamphoryncus> thanks 17:02:37 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 17:02:45 <Steve^> hmm, shame 17:03:03 *** ducky [~quassel@76.92.236.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:03:25 <andythenorth> frosch123: http://paste.openttd.org/217453 17:03:26 *** ITSBTH [~itsbth@81.191.171.43] has joined #openttd 17:04:56 <frosch123> you should use escapes, D1 84 and 01 00 are both wrong :p 17:05:42 <andythenorth> so renum just told me :) 17:05:42 <frosch123> 0F // end calculation, start afresh <- what's that? 17:05:55 <andythenorth> copied and pasted that code from some mb gave me last year... 17:05:57 <andythenorth> ! 17:06:12 <andythenorth> not needed? 17:06:34 <frosch123> remove that 0F and replace the second 20 with 00 17:07:22 <andythenorth> how to do the escapes? 17:07:41 * andythenorth wiki 17:07:42 <frosch123> \wx100 for the register, \wxD4?? for the text 17:07:59 <Steve^> wow, I find it quite humorous that maglev trains can go 600 km/h on flat land and 60 on a hill 17:08:30 <Pikka> Steve^: try turning realistic train physics on 17:09:18 * frosch123 << food 17:09:26 <andythenorth> frosch123: yum 17:09:46 <Steve^> hmm 17:11:04 <Steve^> ok, with realistic the maglevs can do one corner at full speed but not two 17:13:11 <andythenorth> yay, renum stopped punishing me 17:13:17 <andythenorth> one day I'll update my renum... 17:13:32 <andythenorth> mine is blankly ignorant of several escape strings 17:13:37 <andythenorth> *sequences 17:13:52 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:14:12 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 17:15:25 <Pikka> so, let's say I introduce a mail/express van around 1890 and it looks a little like this: http://www.gwr.org.uk/pronsiphon.html 17:15:30 <Pikka> what should I call it? :P 17:16:03 <andythenorth> "Victory is Mine" 17:16:15 <andythenorth> Not actually a suggestion for Pikka 17:16:17 <andythenorth> :P 17:16:25 <Pikka> :P 17:16:29 <andythenorth> Pikka: Siphon G 17:16:37 <andythenorth> We had two for sausages when I was kid 17:16:58 <Pikka> well I was going to call it a siphon, but people who don't know won't understand why... 17:17:11 <andythenorth> Utility van? 17:17:17 <Pikka> hmm 17:17:50 <andythenorth> Mail / Express Van? 17:17:57 <Doorslammer> Siphon G Van 17:18:09 <Pikka> yeah, maybe Siphon Van will be okay... 17:18:11 <Doorslammer> Sounds perfectly reasonable to me 17:18:21 <andythenorth> Here's mine 17:18:22 <andythenorth> http://cgi.ebay.ph/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350232728630 17:18:24 <andythenorth> not literally 17:18:46 <Doorslammer> Whats the project Pikka? 17:19:19 <Pikka> http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=Project_1000 Doorslammer 17:19:35 <andythenorth> Doorslammer: Pikka is drawing The Last Train to Transcentral 17:19:40 <andythenorth> followed by an ice cream van 17:19:57 <andythenorth> And I'm drawing an industry which burns a million pounds 17:20:24 <Pikka> nice, andy 17:20:34 <Doorslammer> Wow 17:20:37 <Doorslammer> Looking good 17:24:14 <Rubidium> Project 1000? what about NewUKRS or YAUKRS (where the R stands for rail) :) 17:24:55 <planetmaker> trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: In function 'void GetAllCargoSuffixes(uint, CargoSuffixType, const Industry*, IndustryType, const IndustrySpec*, const TC&, TS&)': 17:24:57 <planetmaker> /Users/ingo/ottd/trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp:88: error: type mismatch with previous external decl of 'const int __ct_assert__ [(1 - (2 * (!((sizeof (cargos) / sizeof (cargos[0])) <= (sizeof (suffixes) / sizeof (suffixes[0]))))))]' 17:24:58 <planetmaker> trunk/src/table/sprites.h:1462: error: previous external decl of 'const int __ct_assert__ [1]' 17:25:00 <planetmaker> ^ in current trunk 17:25:28 <Doorslammer> Thats a mouthful 17:25:30 <Rubidium> get a better gcc :) 17:25:37 <planetmaker> ehm... 4.2? 17:26:03 <planetmaker> let me check that I didn't use llvm-gcc-4.2, but... 17:26:14 *** thingwath [~thingwath@r2ap232.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:26:22 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17804 /trunk/src/ (cargopacket.cpp cargopacket.h station.cpp): -Codechange: move the CargoPacket 'invalidation' when stations get removed to CargoPacket. 17:27:00 <planetmaker> doesn't change a thing 17:27:19 <frosch123> let's test msvc 17:28:28 <Rubidium> question is... is it triggering an assert_compile or is assert_compile the issue? 17:29:02 <planetmaker> I'm not sure. It doesn't look to me like a assert compile, but rather it being the issue 17:29:23 <frosch123> planetmaker: yeah, replace the assert with a printf that outputs length(cargos), lengthof(suffixes) and length(suffixes[0]) 17:29:38 <Rubidium> s/length/lengthof/ 17:29:40 *** thingwath [~thingwath@r2ap232.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 17:31:00 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I am testing the improved acceleration for road vehicles patch making the slope steeper for road vehicles; it solves the problem and now road vehicle speed takes a noticeable hit on slopes... HEQS articulated vehicles can't go faster than 1 km/h after a few sloped tiles when carrying a full load, though 17:32:04 <George> Bigos reports: 17:32:04 <George> For r17605 I get error: Unhandled exception at 0x00492875 in openttd.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation reading location 0x00000004. 17:32:04 <George> For r17600 there is no errors. 17:32:04 <George> Now Yea have easy way to check where the problem is. 17:32:17 <planetmaker> uh... if I do that I get a bunch of compile errors & warnings. 17:32:24 <George> Rubidium: Please have a look! 17:33:31 <frosch123> planetmaker: does it show which types it used for TC and TS ? 17:35:31 <Steve^> roundabouts are baaad 17:36:01 <planetmaker> ah, wait. It compiles. Typo in printf :-P 17:36:35 <planetmaker> so it should be a compile-time assert :-) 17:36:53 <planetmaker> but I don't have the types yet / sizes 17:37:53 <andythenorth> Terkhen: most of the articulated RVs in HEQS have low coefficient of T/E, I'll tweak and fix 17:38:01 <Alberth> Steve^: yes, unfortunately 17:38:04 <andythenorth> have you released a new acceleration patch on the thread? 17:38:56 <frosch123> hmm, msvc wants lots of typename instead of class in cargopacket.h 17:39:10 <Terkhen> no, but it will be uploaded soon 17:39:19 <Terkhen> I just have to finish some comments 17:39:25 <planetmaker> sorry, bbl 17:43:11 <andythenorth> frosch123: text stack code working :) 17:43:12 <andythenorth> thanks 17:43:23 <Steve^> my dream of having 17 cities all connected to each other is looking bleak 17:43:37 <frosch123> nice andy :) 17:43:46 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aejm101.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 17:45:26 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: translators * r17805 /trunk/src/lang/ (norwegian_bokmal.txt norwegian_nynorsk.txt): 17:45:26 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:26 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 1 changes by Utvik 17:45:26 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: norwegian_nynorsk - 1 changes by Utvik 17:45:41 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm7.epsilon180.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:47:50 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17806 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: split CargoPacket's 'afterload' to a separate function 17:52:57 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17807 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: move all 'updates' just after the 'load' constructor of CargoPackets to the constructor call itself 17:53:45 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17808 /trunk/src/ (cargopacket.h economy.cpp station_gui.cpp): -Codechange: remove write 'access' from all of CargoPacket's variables 17:56:11 <Terkhen> andythenorth: new version released 17:56:46 <Rubidium> George: what vector are those grounds in? 17:56:58 <George> Agricultural 17:57:12 <andythenorth> Terkhen: thanks. probably won't compile tonight, but I'll test soon! 17:57:39 <Terkhen> no problem :) 17:57:49 <andythenorth> Question to the audience: 17:57:49 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=41607&p=825630#p825630 17:57:56 <andythenorth> 1. which is better 17:58:12 <andythenorth> 2. could we make a change to the industry window text layout? 17:58:51 <Rubidium> George: dbg: [grf] [ecs_agricultural_vector.b5__28_jun_2009_/ecsagriw.grf:995] IndustriesChangeInfo: Invalid industry layout for industry id 29. Ignoring 17:59:24 <George> can it report what tile is wrong? 18:00:36 <_ln> Sacro: [19:16] <Sacro> _ln: jooooin us ;P <-- sorry, was afk 18:01:01 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@host133-16.student.udel.edu] has joined #openttd 18:01:39 <Sacro> _ln: well the channel has gone now the race is over :p 18:03:10 <Rubidium> George: (at least) 1, 3 18:03:29 <Alberth> andythenorth: changing the text layout would mean a change to all NewGRF, right? 18:03:53 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAEe75a.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 18:03:56 <andythenorth> Alberth: maybe. depends if anyone is relying on that text layout... 18:04:02 <andythenorth> OzTrans might be 18:04:12 <andythenorth> CanSet 3 features industries 18:04:16 <DaleStan> George: The NFORenum "nightlies" should be able to. 18:04:30 <Alberth> (at least I changed that window to day, and remember there were only 3 text pieces) 18:04:35 <andythenorth> of course, I can't test that, because CanSet is "officially not working" with OpenTTD 18:04:46 <andythenorth> PBI doesn't rely on anything fiddly there 18:04:49 <andythenorth> George is here to ask 18:04:56 <andythenorth> who else makes industries? 18:05:15 <Rubidium> George: http://paste.openttd.org/217455 <- all duplicates (there are even duplicate duplicates) 18:08:17 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:09:01 <andythenorth> Alberth: what are the 3 text pieces? 18:10:31 <Rubidium> DaleStan: nforenum r2237 doesn't add warnings about the duplicate tiles (or I'm missing something) 18:10:41 *** JH-Q [~J@a88-115-41-126.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:10:46 <Alberth> as in your first picture, the waiting cargo, the last month production, and 'what the industry wants to say further' 18:11:57 <andythenorth> No idea if my proposed change is possible...but anyway 18:12:16 <DaleStan> Oh. The same location is defined twice? Then no, I don't check that. 18:12:19 <andythenorth> I propose that the last month production block can move down if waiting cargo block is longer 18:12:38 <Alberth> it does now 18:13:06 <andythenorth> Alberth: so if I compile latest nightly? 18:13:29 <andythenorth> My 'screenshots' are a photoshop hack to keep some spacing between the two blocks 18:13:32 <Alberth> ie those 3 pieces of text are printed underneath each other, and the widget resizes to make it fit 18:14:07 <andythenorth> So if I dropped newlines at the end of the cargo subtext, the "production last month" would move down 18:14:08 <andythenorth> ? 18:14:17 <andythenorth> dropped = added! 18:17:35 <Alberth> hmm, probably not :( the lines are printed with DrawString() which does not expect to get newlines afaik 18:19:37 <Alberth> sorry for the confusion, must have misunderstood you somewhere 18:20:00 *** Terkhen [~terkhen@63.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...] 18:21:47 <andythenorth> Alberth: I'll screenshot what happens right now....the intended change should be obvious. If it can't be done, c'est la vie! 18:22:07 <Alberth> ok 18:25:15 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@63.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 18:26:21 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db01984.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:26:45 * andythenorth confused about why text code that works for cb 3A is failing for cb 37 18:28:58 <andythenorth> Ach, there are too many problems with this text placement idea of mine 18:28:59 *** welshdragon [~markjones@client-86-31-97-143.popl.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: welshdragon] 18:29:14 <andythenorth> The information can just go somewhere else 18:29:22 <andythenorth> Bottom of the window or something 18:29:28 <andythenorth> It's not logical, but it's clean 18:29:30 <frosch123> :p you are evading the interesting stuff 18:30:18 <George> Rubidium: Thank you, it helped. Could you make OTTD to report about duplicates with red indow? 18:30:53 <Rubidium> George: could, but it's too much work for too little benefit 18:30:58 <andythenorth> frosch123: hmmm...the interesting bit would be for whoever gets to recode the industry window text layout, no? 18:31:04 <George> agree 18:31:28 <George> DaleStan: may be NFOrenum could do it? 18:33:58 *** welshdragon [~markjones@client-86-31-97-143.popl.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:34:09 <andythenorth> small text in the industry window? 18:34:14 <andythenorth> no no no no looks ugly 18:37:45 <andythenorth> So I say 'Not accepting Engineering Supplies' explicitly 18:37:55 <andythenorth> But do I need to say 'Accepting Engineering Supplies' ? 18:37:59 <andythenorth> Or is that just implicit 18:38:03 <andythenorth> ? 18:38:50 <frosch123> i guess a red text "currently not accepting stuff" at the bottom is enough 18:39:25 <andythenorth> I thought red too, but it's surprising hard to read! White is good 18:39:42 <andythenorth> But the window now jumps size horribly when the text changes...most disruptive! 18:40:19 <andythenorth> Thought of a fix I think... 18:41:36 <andythenorth> That'll be a victory for the old 'spurious linebreaks' trick then 18:41:48 <andythenorth> Ah, the things we learn coding html :) 18:42:37 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-221-198.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 18:43:26 <andythenorth> Ladies and gentlemen we have a winner...I'm pleased with that industry text...not too much, just the right amount 18:43:50 <andythenorth> Now I need a cb which *gets* cargo acceptance rather than *setting* it 18:43:56 <andythenorth> oops, a var I mean 18:43:59 <andythenorth> doh 18:45:23 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 18:45:32 <Pikka> no you don't, andy 18:45:59 <andythenorth> no I don't indeed 18:46:01 <andythenorth> cb 2C? 18:46:16 <Rhamphoryncus> Okay, I think I've deciphered my madness.. I was under the impression that a station is always a stopping point, but it seems that only applies when a given end is a dead end 18:46:50 <Alberth> or perhaps if you add a signal at the end of the platform? 18:46:54 <andythenorth> hmmm cb 2C is for *industry tiles*...close but no cigar, I need the actual industry acceptance... 18:47:15 <Rhamphoryncus> So, when I attempted to make a station into a roro with the back as the preferred direction, it still wanted to come in from the front... and found no stopping point, so it'd loop around again.. and still find no stopping point.. and again until it hits itself, and ergo can find no path 18:47:32 <Pikka> andy: use the same action 2 chain you used to /decide/ industry acceptance? :P 18:47:43 <Rhamphoryncus> It doesn't even seem to consider approaching from the rear unless I make the front one-way 18:47:57 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r17809 /trunk/src/ (cargopacket.cpp cargopacket.h): -Fix: MSVC compilation. 18:48:00 <Rhamphoryncus> And if I add signals to the rear it prefers the front 18:48:10 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 18:48:18 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-144-134-197-194.prem.tmns.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:48:26 <Pikka> if you want to do anything super-clever, you may need to do it with flags/registers. ;) 18:48:26 <andythenorth> Pikka: I'm doing that, I was just trying to be efficient / bulletproof with my code 18:48:46 <andythenorth> ^^ as in I'm doing the action 2 chain checking waiting cargo 18:48:54 <andythenorth> *slightly* inspired by PBI code ;) 18:49:03 <Pikka> :) 18:49:11 <andythenorth> I may save registers for another day, but they are going to be the right thing to do some day 18:49:24 <Pikka> the pbi code is so old, I'm sure there's a lot of things I could do better... 18:49:39 <andythenorth> ach it works 18:49:47 <andythenorth> I've had a lot of fun with that evil ste 18:49:50 <andythenorth> set* 18:50:10 <Pikka> :) 18:50:12 <Pikka> hmm 18:50:23 <Pikka> one of these days I should get around to making my farms produce grain again 18:50:56 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@j104246.upc-j.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:53:07 *** Doorslammer [~monarodoo@203.171.199.33] has joined #openttd 18:53:28 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAEe75a.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:31 <andythenorth> my industry and nearby station are quite out sync when it comes to accepting cargo (or not) 18:53:35 <andythenorth> should I just expect that? 18:54:06 <Pikka> h, 18:54:06 <andythenorth> the station acceptance lags some way behind the industry acceptance in time 18:54:20 <frosch123> that is normal 18:54:25 <frosch123> 3.5 days or so 18:54:31 <andythenorth> right, I'll ignore it 18:54:37 <andythenorth> one less thing to worry about 18:57:04 <andythenorth> I am pleased with my efforts, and I think they deserve a commit :) 18:57:51 <andythenorth> Time for some tea 19:02:07 <Rhamphoryncus> funny thing... I drop pf.yapf.pbs_signal_back_penalty from 1500 to 500 and it becomes unable to find a path 19:03:30 *** AC6000_ [~AC6000@55-210.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:06:03 <Rhamphoryncus> 'course I really have two problems. One is the inability to find the rear path without making the front path unacceptable. The other is how to make the rear path preferred 19:06:38 *** AC6000_ [~AC6000@55-210.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 19:06:48 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Utm Aœ - Aja 35] 19:07:40 <George> DaleStan: NFOrenum r2237 transforms 19:07:40 <George> 11 * 9 07 88 04 08 "Me" 6F 91 01 19:07:40 <George> to 19:07:40 <George> 30 * 9 07 88 04D- "Me" 6F 91 01 19:07:41 <George> but GRFcodec r2212 reports "Encountered invalid character looking for literal byte" 19:07:41 <George> What am I doing wrong? 19:08:28 <Rhamphoryncus> heh, and the solution may be stupidly obvious: the pathfinder is outsmarting me, declaring the front *substantially* better. I need to make it worse. ie, make the input route come from the side, so the two are balanced 19:08:28 *** AC6000 [~AC6000@55-210.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:11:32 <Rhamphoryncus> nope, ignoring the front path entirely 19:11:44 * Rhamphoryncus should maybe stop expecting so much from path signals :P 19:12:11 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.76] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:12:41 <Alberth> I always wondered whether messing with those values is useful, given that you change path-finding globally 19:13:21 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.76] has joined #openttd 19:14:02 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.183.102] has joined #openttd 19:16:15 <Rhamphoryncus> Alberth: bigger issue with changing them is you don't actually *fix* anything 19:16:58 <Alberth> that makes it less useful :) 19:17:03 <Rhamphoryncus> in essence, I want trains to bypass broken trains, but otherwise stick to the preferred routes. It's not capable of that though 19:17:58 <Alberth> maybe the PF doesn't know the difference between a normal train and a broken train? 19:18:12 <Rhamphoryncus> yeah 19:18:24 <Rhamphoryncus> I don't think it looks at trains at all. It looks at reserved routes 19:20:24 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.201.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:20:24 <Alberth> I think it does, but only a few signals ahead. If you split a track to 2 parallel tracks, trains kind of evenly distribute between the two tracks. However I use block-length = 4 tiles. 19:21:26 *** Doorslammer [~monarodoo@203.171.199.33] has quit [] 19:26:21 <Rhamphoryncus> No, that's incidental. It can get further along by using the second track, so it'll move over. Once there it prefers a straight line, so it'll stick to it 19:30:05 <Alberth> ok, you play the game more often than I probably :) 19:30:54 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:31:17 <Rhamphoryncus> not nearly enough to understand it ;) 19:31:58 <Alberth> well, we do need a PF guru :p 19:34:26 <Rhamphoryncus> that's actually how it *should* behave.. but the problem I'm having right now seems to exhibit all-or-nothing behaviour. Not considering alternate routes 19:37:50 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 19:39:00 <Alberth> maybe the difference is too subtle to make a decision 19:41:14 <Rhamphoryncus> small differences is where it should excel. 19:42:52 <Rubidium> talking about pathfinder behaviour usually works better with a concrete example (read savegame) than when the others have to guess what's the exact problem 19:46:16 <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: plus I keep changing what I'm doing ;) 19:46:23 <Steve^> Pendolinos are the most modern trains in Britain? 19:48:34 <Rhamphoryncus> I think I got it working though. Tweaked things so that trains prefer the rear entrance, but use the front if the rear is unavailable 19:49:52 <Rhamphoryncus> there's probably some cutoff in cost difference that makes it wait for a path, rather than find another 19:52:04 <Rhamphoryncus> And the cost of a few tiles is pretty substantial, more than I would have guessed 19:53:56 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:00:33 <Rhamphoryncus> A side treck 6 tiles out (including turns) is preferable to going backwards through a signal, but not one of 7 tiles 20:03:17 <andythenorth> FIRS FIRS FIRS FIRS 20:03:36 <andythenorth> secondary (processing) industries turn out to be mighty complicated :) 20:03:47 <andythenorth> but must not be complicated to the player 20:03:58 <andythenorth> hum 20:04:52 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:05:26 <Steve^> andythenorth, you decided on your text? 20:05:38 <andythenorth> yes 20:05:45 <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: FIRS is very nice btw (although I've barely touched it). Adds a lot of depth 20:05:56 <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: and width :P 20:06:44 * Rhamphoryncus adds length and time for good measure 20:07:01 <andythenorth> what about fire? 20:07:16 <Steve^> are you going to colour it depending on accepting/full? 20:07:19 <Rhamphoryncus> Naw. 5th element has to be Heart 20:07:27 <andythenorth> Steve^: I'll post a screen shot in the FIRS thread 20:09:20 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aejm101.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [] 20:14:29 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tsch?ss] 20:18:24 <andythenorth> Steve^: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=41607&p=825690#p825690 20:19:55 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@82-32-243-15.cable.ubr11.newt.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:23:35 <break19> nah, the 5th element is always a real hot chic that dont talk much, but can kick your ass.. 20:24:18 <Prof_Frink> That or Boron. 20:24:29 <Steve^> looks good andy 20:25:55 <Steve^> where do the excess supplies go? 20:26:41 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r17810 /trunk/src/ (industry_gui.cpp stdafx.h): 20:26:41 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Codechange/Fix: Add assert_tcompile() and use it. 20:26:41 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: OTTD's traditional assert_compile() does not work inside templates for gcc compilers, static_assert() does though. 20:26:41 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: The new assert_tcompile() resolves into static_assert() if present, or into a runtime assert() else. 20:30:04 <andythenorth> Steve^: excess supplies stay on the train, mostly. 20:30:15 <andythenorth> I'm not sure if some of them just go MIA, it's hard to tell 20:30:54 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 20:31:01 <frosch123> that bevaviour differs in 0.7 and trunk, and trunk is also a bit WIP in that point 20:34:28 <andythenorth> one thing in nfo's favour: no braces, no semi-colons :) 20:34:29 <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: looks good to me too. I'd hate to repeatedly drop off 1 crate at a time 20:34:36 <andythenorth> my kind of language 20:34:48 <planetmaker> back 20:35:07 <frosch123> planetmaker: svn up :p 20:35:09 <planetmaker> oh, I see, that the assert compile is already fixed :-) ty frosch123 20:35:19 <planetmaker> hg pull :-P 20:35:39 <frosch123> yeah it failed for all non c++0x capable gcc compilers 20:36:22 <planetmaker> wow. gcc-4.2 is not c++0x capable...? 20:36:54 <frosch123> no idea 20:37:01 <frosch123> seems so 20:38:00 <frosch123> "gcc has had static_assert since 4.3" 20:38:14 *** Stoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:38:14 *** TrainzStoffe is now known as Stoffe 20:38:24 <planetmaker> well. That's newer than my compilers 20:38:44 <planetmaker> That lets me wonder why apple doesn't ship its new system with gcc-4.4 20:39:24 <frosch123> hehe, i'm also only on 4.3.4 :p 20:39:27 <Rubidium> because llvm is still at gcc-4.2 20:42:16 <planetmaker> Rubidium: but this machine has gcc-4.0.1, gcc-4.2.1 and llvm-gcc-4.2.1 20:42:30 <planetmaker> no reason for the latter two, one would think 20:42:40 <planetmaker> err.. first two :-) 20:42:56 <planetmaker> but llvm-gcc-4.2 is 33% faster compiling OpenTTD than gcc-4.2 20:43:05 <planetmaker> 4:30m vs 6:40m 20:43:49 <Rubidium> that can be caused by so many things 20:43:51 <Rhamphoryncus> But how fast is the resulting code? 20:43:54 <planetmaker> for another project I tested it with, there's no difference, though. 20:44:40 <Rhamphoryncus> You could turn off optimizations and get an even faster compile 20:47:54 <planetmaker> good point... how do I measure the exacution speed of OpenTTD? 20:48:11 <break19> little-known gcc compiler flag -jz : causes gcc to output "I'm a pimp" every time a module is compiled successfully.. 20:50:20 <Rubidium> just compile gcc-4.2 with -O0 and enable its asserting and compare that to a gcc compiled with -O3 and disabled assertions and the lot 20:51:17 <planetmaker> but how does that give me the speed of the generated binary? 20:51:40 <glx> time using same savegame and same tick limit 20:52:05 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@69.49.68.95] has joined #openttd 20:52:09 *** Steve^ [~steve@92.40.114.24.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:52:23 <planetmaker> can I specify the amount of ticks OpenTTD is supposed to run and then terminate? 20:53:38 <SmatZ> planetmaker: openttd -v null:ticks=1000 20:53:47 <SmatZ> (1000 is the default) 20:53:47 <glx> hmm only for null driver yes 20:54:14 <glx> but null video driver is enough to compare speed 20:54:46 <planetmaker> interesting. Thank you, SmatZ 20:54:50 <Rubidium> unless you're looking at the speed of the video stuff 20:55:48 <boekabart> just make sure you run for enough ticks to minimize the startup/loading 20:55:57 <boekabart> effect 20:56:07 *** FR^2 [frr@frquadrat.de] has quit [Quit: Der Worte sind genug gewechselt, lasst mich auch endlich Taten sehn!] 20:56:50 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17811 /trunk/src/querystring_gui.h: -Codechange: make HasEditBoxFocus a private function of QueryString because it's not meant to be used for determining whether the given widget actually has focus (it also checks the OSK edit box) 20:57:24 <mynetdude> hey guys I've been fiddling with the pf.yapf.rail_twoway_eol setting, can this be permenantly set regardless of a new game or saved game? 20:58:07 <SmatZ> no 20:58:10 <Rubidium> no, unless you mess with the code (but that might desync you in MP) 20:58:18 <mynetdude> oh 20:58:24 <mynetdude> bummer :( 20:58:28 <SmatZ> after loading a game, it will be set to value stored in savegame (unless it's 0.4-or-older-savegame) 20:58:40 <mynetdude> can this setting work in MP? 20:58:51 <glx> if you are the server 20:58:55 <SmatZ> you can change it in MP as server 20:59:01 <mynetdude> ah ok so once the game is loaded it will retain that setting... cool 20:59:10 <mynetdude> ok very cool 20:59:20 <mynetdude> works for me I guess 20:59:22 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd368.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:35 <andythenorth> there he goes! 21:00:10 <andythenorth> coding secondary industries is more challenging than I hoped 21:00:20 <mynetdude> one other question... probably gets asked all the time and probably doesn't have a defined answer because the maps change/random whatever but if you start laying tracks then you decide it could have been better to lay them differently... I suppose there is no point in trying to revamp? 21:00:38 <planetmaker> what do you mean, andythenorth ? 21:00:44 <andythenorth> the main issue is combining the production callback (needed) with allowing some players to stuff insane amounts of cargo through an industry 21:01:10 <planetmaker> hehe :-) 21:01:12 <andythenorth> production callback does gradual processing, at a certain rate 21:01:15 * planetmaker whistles innocently 21:01:25 <andythenorth> It *is* possible. But the code is non-trivial 21:01:36 <planetmaker> you can certainly define levels at which input is processed, isn't it? 21:01:45 <andythenorth> yes yes, all of that is fine 21:01:45 <Rhamphoryncus> mynetdude: it's expensive and time consuming. You were thinking otherwise? 21:02:14 <andythenorth> planetmaker: for industries with only one input it's not too hard 21:02:15 <mynetdude> Rhamphoryncus yeah, expensive and time consuming... yeah just lay the tracks and don't think about it later :P 21:02:36 <andythenorth> it's more complex when there are more inputs 21:02:46 <andythenorth> I also need to think about outputs 21:02:56 <planetmaker> andythenorth: for industries with more than one input, you take the speed of whatever is slowest (defining minimum requirements for the levels) 21:03:10 <mynetdude> there is an option to not allow industries to be present when you start the game, and it is possible for players to establish an industry... has anyone tried to play this way? 21:03:14 <planetmaker> but yeah. it sounds simple, but isn't, I guess 21:03:35 <andythenorth> well it depends on whether the inputs are independent, or if you need both 21:03:56 <Terkhen> good night 21:03:57 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@63.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...] 21:04:00 <andythenorth> then if there are two output cargos, do we have 50% of each, or do we look at what is being transported most, and use that? 21:04:04 <Rhamphoryncus> mynetdude: fine tuning is half the fun 21:04:09 <andythenorth> ^^ bye Terkhen 21:04:41 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d199-126-251-5.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 21:04:57 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I'm have a plan, but it's going to take a little while....I'm worried it will be too complicated to be fun 21:05:16 *** Grelouk_ [~Grelouk@17.146.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 21:06:04 <mynetdude> has anyone played with no industries on the map? 21:06:25 <andythenorth> not me 21:06:48 <Ammler> mynetdude: I guess ECS town vector is able to. 21:06:50 <mynetdude> setting up the industry is expensive so I was curious if anyone has 21:07:12 <mynetdude> Ammler sorry, don't understand what you mean 21:07:33 <Ammler> I thought, you are looking for a GRF which allows you to disable industries 21:07:36 <planetmaker> mynetdude: sure I did 21:07:47 <andythenorth> mynetdude: try it with 'prospecting' for primary industries. it will be cheaper... 21:07:48 <planetmaker> but then I only transported passengers :-) 21:07:49 *** welshdragon [~markjones@client-86-31-97-143.popl.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:07:54 <mynetdude> Ammler, no you can turn off industries in the difficulty settings 21:08:11 <Ammler> hmm, really, new to me :-) 21:08:24 <Ammler> when was that done? 21:08:36 <mynetdude> planetmaker its easier to start off with passengers to build your base funds 21:08:45 <planetmaker> mynetdude: no. 21:08:56 <mynetdude> Ammler been there for as long as i can remember since 0.5.0 I think 21:09:15 <mynetdude> planetmaker you mean the other way around, doing cargo is easier? 21:09:39 <Ammler> well, you can create a map without industries, but they will apear with the time. 21:09:40 <planetmaker> it doesn't matter. That's what I think :-) 21:10:05 <planetmaker> you can make a fortune with coal. With farm products, with oil, with pax. 21:10:16 <mynetdude> ah ok 21:10:35 *** welshdragon [~markjones@client-82-2-48-127.brnt.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:10:43 <mynetdude> Ammler oh ok good point, even with industries already there they will appear over time as well... forgot about that 21:10:56 <planetmaker> if I want cash, I usually just build two airports in moderately big towns as much distant as I get them and then I build my train network. 21:11:53 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [] 21:12:21 *** welshdragon [~markjones@client-82-2-48-127.brnt.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:12:42 <mynetdude> ah ok... I've always liked building train networks first for some reason... it takes longer to get the money but it does happen at some point 21:13:06 <mynetdude> planetmaker when you build airports between two large towns do you also build large airports? 21:13:28 <andythenorth> good night 21:13:35 <planetmaker> mynetdude: that obviously depends on the game year 21:13:37 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.115.29.213.plusnet.pcl-ag01.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:13:43 <planetmaker> good night Andythnorth... 21:13:47 *** b_jonas [~x@dsl51B61893.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:13:58 <mynetdude> aha ok 21:14:16 <mynetdude> Ammler btw, the game does add towns to the map over time too 21:14:26 <Ammler> nah 21:14:26 <planetmaker> mynetdude: it doesn't 21:14:31 <Ammler> :-) 21:16:11 <mynetdude> so there is no way to "plant" new towns as a player either? 21:16:24 <mynetdude> I was sure I saw a map grow towns... but the map was fluked 21:17:31 <planetmaker> there's a custom-built version for that somewhere possibly 21:17:36 <planetmaker> but not in official binaries 21:17:43 *** boekabart [~boekabart@ip218-114-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:20:50 <mynetdude> will it be available in official binaries someday? 21:23:25 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:49 *** fjb [~frank@p5485FA4B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:36 <planetmaker> maybe. maybe not 21:25:08 *** ITSBTH [~itsbth@81.191.171.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:26:22 <planetmaker> hm, nice. llvm-gcc code is also a bit faster than plain gcc code 21:28:10 <planetmaker> hm... I need to use more ticks, I guess 21:40:52 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-221-198.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:44:12 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has quit [] 21:45:02 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 21:45:20 <Nite_Owl> Hello all 21:45:30 <Pikka> hello 21:45:49 <Nite_Owl> Hello Pikka 21:47:12 <Nite_Owl> So who broke the compilation this time 21:47:52 * Chruker looks innocent 21:48:47 <Yexo> TrueBrain: the url http://noai.openttd.org/repositories/show/ai-admiralai gives an internal error 21:49:09 <Yexo> it's reachable via http://noai.openttd.org/projects/show/ai-admiralai ("Repository" link in menu bar) 21:49:38 <TrueBrain> Yexo: fucking redmine and his 'memory management 21:49:40 <TrueBrain> it sucks .. 21:50:22 <TrueBrain> better? 21:50:30 <Yexo> yes, thanks 21:51:02 <Nite_Owl> my bad - I thought that was an answer to my inquiry 21:56:39 <mynetdude> is the online GRF download an all inclusive of all of the available GRFs out there? 21:57:20 <Nite_Owl> No 21:58:14 <Nite_Owl> http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/ 21:58:26 <Nite_Owl> that is another place to look 21:58:43 <Nite_Owl> plus the graphics forums 21:59:06 <Nite_Owl> and the links page 22:01:24 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAEe75a.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 22:01:49 <Nite_Owl> http://www.openttdcoop.org 22:02:29 <Nite_Owl> that site also has a rather comprehensive grf package to download 22:03:38 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8D68.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:08:28 <mynetdude> how can I get the map/seed number after the game has already started? 22:08:38 <mynetdude> And if I use the same seed, will the towns be in the same place? 22:09:42 <Nite_Owl> type <getseed> (no brackets) in the console 22:11:13 <Nite_Owl> the towns will not necessarily be in the same place due to random placement of other things like industries 22:11:58 <Nite_Owl> they should be fairly close though 22:14:11 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@host133-16.student.udel.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:14:31 <planetmaker> a map generated with the same seed (and the same OpenTTD version!) should look exactly the same. Not only approx. 22:15:04 <planetmaker> the seed is technically the starting number for the random generator. Thus there's no chance anymore, if you fix that 22:16:28 <Nite_Owl> really ?? I have had industries and towns change position in the past. Mostly industries which, in turn, can affect towns 22:17:03 <Nite_Owl> of course it has been quite awhile since I played around with it 22:17:16 <mynetdude> I have no industries 22:17:27 <mynetdude> so we'll see what happens, thanks guys 22:17:46 <planetmaker> Nite_Owl: the (random) seed is the initialisation and should completely determine the map 22:18:01 <planetmaker> of course that's not true anymore, if you start playing: you change the map then, too. 22:18:13 <planetmaker> but the generation is 100% identical 22:18:26 <planetmaker> if everything else is also the same (same settings,...) 22:19:09 <planetmaker> different settings, of course, might give the random numbers different meanings, thus changing the outcome 22:19:36 <mynetdude> fairly close, not exact 22:19:43 <mynetdude> but the terrain is identical 22:19:50 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:18 <mynetdude> I only changed the year 22:20:23 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@69.49.68.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:20:28 <mynetdude> and population numbers changed too 22:20:31 <planetmaker> the year is a setting 22:21:22 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DC5B3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: May the schwartz be with you! (Möge der Saft mit euch sein!)] 22:23:14 <mynetdude> yeah I realize that, but not a problem 22:23:16 <planetmaker> and reproducability works for me 22:23:19 <mynetdude> I only gave it a 30 year difference 22:23:37 <mynetdude> planetmaker even changing the year or not changing the year? 22:23:55 *** PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-168-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 22:23:59 <planetmaker> changing nothing -> same map 22:24:00 <mynetdude> hmm... I picked up the world airline GRF and its missing quite a few planes 22:24:24 <mynetdude> ah ok.. well I wanted airports in 1950... couldn't get any so I gave it a change in 30 years 22:24:40 <planetmaker> you have airports in 1950... 22:24:53 <planetmaker> but WAS has no good planes there 22:25:11 <PeterT> I'm painting for was 22:25:18 <PeterT> I just started 737-800 Malev 22:25:23 <Nite_Owl> that grf is still an alpha version 22:25:41 <mynetdude> I tried, the airport was greyed out in 1950 22:26:25 <mynetdude> ah the WAS has no airline paint scheme in mine, its just white but its missing some of the smaller planes like the ERJ145 E170, CRJ700, etc 22:26:41 <mynetdude> heck there are no props/turbos guess I'll have to go looking for better GRFs 22:26:58 <planetmaker> mynetdude: ever tried to refit your plane? 22:27:23 <planetmaker> that is THE feature of WAS. But well... there's a do-not-readme coming along with it, I guess 22:27:25 <mynetdude> btw my seed number is still the same even though I changed it to 30 years later 22:27:50 <mynetdude> ah I haven't looked at the readme, I downloaded it directly from the game 22:27:58 <mynetdude> sure I can refit... 22:28:06 <planetmaker> mynetdude: the seed number doesn't repreent the map. The map represents the seed number PLUS all settings 22:28:17 <mynetdude> thats not the point... after building two airports I can't even buy a plane unless I borrow more 22:28:26 <planetmaker> so? 22:28:34 <mynetdude> so what? 22:28:55 <mynetdude> you're right it doesn't matter, but its unrealistic 22:29:16 <mynetdude> I'll just go back to not having WAS 22:35:39 <mynetdude> this is kinda cool... each year you change in correlation with the seed the cities change :) 22:40:23 <fonsinchen> Rubidium: Are you going to accept my proposal of having different containers for vehicle and station cargo lists? If so, how are you going to implement that with CargoList's template parameter being the "outer" cargolist implementation? 22:40:58 <fonsinchen> You know you can't easily template typedefs, do you? 22:50:35 *** Sitethief[TOP] [~sitethief@sitethief.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 22:51:17 <Sitethief[TOP]> Rubidium, kheb nu OTTD geupadte 22:51:19 <Sitethief[TOP]> we zullen zien 22:51:24 *** Sitethief[TOP] is now known as Sitethief 22:51:33 <Pikka> you tell 'im 22:53:18 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon] 22:59:49 <mynetdude> are there any tips & tricks to preventing plane crashes, as to train crashes you prevent them by using signals 22:59:59 <mynetdude> I had a plane crash upon touchdown 23:02:01 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C71A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:02 *** hickop [~hickop@AGrenoble-257-1-44-135.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:04:05 *** fonsinchen1 [~alve@BAEb390.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 23:07:58 <Rubidium> fonsinchen1: yeah, I'm having a bit of trouble with that now :( Was trying to push feeder_share out to VehicleCargoList; for the StationCargoList it isn't used. Saves 512 bytes per station *and* removes some 64 bits compares + updates (makes AddTo/RemoveFromCache for stations branchless, thus cheaper) 23:09:16 <fonsinchen1> Can't you still do that with keeping the containers as template param? 23:09:28 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAEe75a.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:09:39 *** fonsinchen1 is now known as fonsinchen 23:10:34 <Rubidium> not fully sure about it; I fear the thing needs two template parameters 23:12:25 <fonsinchen> AddToCache and RemoveFromCache need a specialization for VehicleCargoList, but that can be very slim. 23:13:16 <fonsinchen> Or where do you think the second tparam is needed? 23:13:53 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 23:14:25 <Rubidium> in CargoList; I wouldn't know a way to (not) add an instance variable to a templated class based on some template parameter 23:14:50 <Pikka> mynetdude: no, except don't use large aircraft at small airports. 23:15:15 <mynetdude> Pikka how do you determine what is large? 23:16:33 <fonsinchen> If you take my suggestion where VehicleCargoList is derived from CargoList<CargoPacketSet>, then you should be able to just add feeder_share as member of VehicleCargoList. Or is there anything which prevents that? 23:16:42 <mynetdude> I'm using a 90 pax jet that is successfully landing at a small airport 23:17:13 <Rubidium> fonsinchen: CargoList::MoveTo modifies its own feeder_share 23:18:00 <Pikka> mynetdude: the small and commuter airports are small, the other airports are large 23:18:19 <mynetdude> nah I mean how do you know which planes are too big for a small field? 23:18:25 <fonsinchen> In cargomap I had a similar problem. I solved it by creating two methods MoveToVehicle and MoveToStation which rely on common utility functions. 23:19:24 <fonsinchen> Granted, it looks a little dirty with all the deprecated WillUnload stuff. I'll fix that soon. 23:19:49 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: Flieht, ihr Narren!] 23:19:50 <Pikka> depends what aircraft grf you're using, they should all tell you somehow whether a plane is large or small 23:20:28 <Rubidium> splitting it that far kinda leaves you with so little 'common' ground between the two classes that it's probably better to just have duplicated classes 23:20:51 <fonsinchen> All the caching is still the same. 23:21:03 <fonsinchen> also the utility functions are the same 23:21:24 <fonsinchen> MoveToVehicle and MoveToStation themselves can be pretty small. 23:21:27 <Rubidium> not quite *if* you remove feeder_share for stationlists 23:22:20 <Rubidium> 'only' truncate and the descructor would be the same 23:22:37 <Rubidium> and those helper functions ofcourse 23:23:09 <mynetdude> thanks Pikka 23:23:38 <fonsinchen> That's be quite some code duplication if you made two separate classes. 23:28:53 <Rubidium> hmm, technically Add/RemoveCache can be used for the case where feeder_share is manually updated 23:30:21 <PeterT> is there a program to connect 2 servers? 23:30:29 <PeterT> such as ! Luukland 1 and ! Luukand 2 23:32:14 <Rubidium> basically: http://rbijker.net/openttd/trickery.diff 23:32:58 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B748A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 23:33:15 <Rubidium> moving the Add/RemoveCache functions to the VehicleCargoList/StationCargoList can technically be done with static_cast<Tinst *>(this), although that won't win any beauty contests 23:33:34 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77C54.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:35:21 <fonsinchen> I don't quite get why that is necessary. 23:36:11 <Rubidium> I couldn't move Add/RemoveCache to Vehicle/StationCargoList without getting compile failures 23:36:31 <Rubidium> which is needed if I want to remove feeder_share from CargoList 23:36:59 <Rubidium> (but that can also be my inability) 23:38:10 <fonsinchen> is that the problem with typename? 23:38:36 <fonsinchen> try "typedef typename CargoList<xyz> Parent;" 23:38:49 <fonsinchen> then you should be able to call Parent::RemoveCache 23:39:14 <fonsinchen> or rather this->Parent::RemoveCache ... 23:40:00 <Rubidium> but CargoList<...> != VehicleCargoList, or is this some feature in templates I'm unaware of 23:41:45 <fonsinchen> If you have the base version of RemoveFromCache implemented in CargoList and then a specialization in VehicleCargoList that does the feeder_share stuff you can call the base version from the specialized version like this. 23:42:13 <Rubidium> oh, that way 23:42:52 <Rubidium> but how does calling RemoveCache in e.g. CargoList::MoveTo call the RemoveCache from VehicleCargoList? 23:43:26 *** PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-168-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: I'm off] 23:43:31 <fonsinchen> You may want to make RemoveFromCache virtual 23:43:54 <fonsinchen> then it calls the correct one, otherwise it doesn't. 23:47:26 <fonsinchen> Or, if you don't like virtual methods (lookups in vtable and so on) you may want to make two versions of MoveTo in StationCargoList and VehicleCargoList with utility functions in CargoList. If you call RemoveFromCache directly from MoveTo then it will also call the correct one. 23:52:14 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db01984.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: gn8] 23:59:59 *** fonsinchen1 [~alve@BAEff00.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd