Log for #openttd on 12th December 2009:
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00:07:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i hate windows users...
00:07:44  <Eddi|zuHause> they make their svn repo [i'm glad they even have one] directories "Trunk" and "Tags"
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00:08:47  <edeca> Rather than?
00:09:01  <Eddi|zuHause> "trunk" and "tags"?
00:09:45  <edeca> Fair enough :)
00:10:09  <edeca> I had a "perl" and "Perl" directories in my ~ by mistake.  Mapping those to Windows over a samba share was.. interesting
00:12:39  <Eddi|zuHause> and obviously they can't use svn... copying directories without history...
00:12:55  <Belugas> [18:22] <Eddi|zuHause> why did nobody ever replace "CalcBridgePiece" by a newgrf callback?  <-- got some work on that, but i am too lazy to finish it
00:15:21  <peter1138> sir!
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00:17:32  <Belugas> coucou!
00:17:43  <Belugas> be there shortly, Admiral ;)
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00:33:26  <Belugas> ok, give me 2-3 minutes, the tiem i install my gear, peter1138
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01:53:37  <Belugas> mmh...  mmmh...  mmmh...
01:54:02  <Belugas> obsessive little melody
01:54:05  <Rubidium> yeah, it's lovely :)
01:54:22  <Belugas> indeed :) da silence !
01:54:51  <Belugas> ya shall hear dat little part :D
01:55:17  <Belugas> even when tired, mister nelson can bring some vewry good moody parts
01:59:53  <Belugas> which reminds me... wat are you STILL doing up, Rubidium?
02:00:13  <Rubidium> I was hoping you could answer that :)
02:00:47  <Belugas> too much coding makes you that effecdt, sometimes ;)
02:01:05  <Rubidium> nah, haven't coded a bit today
02:01:33  <Belugas> ok... since i know you don't drink, and it;s not fool moon...
02:01:41  <Belugas> and you're not a vampire...
02:01:43  <Belugas> and...
02:01:46  <Belugas> mmmh...
02:01:49  <Belugas> dunno
02:01:57  <Belugas> neightbours?
02:02:16  <Belugas> mmmh..
02:02:30  <Belugas> your brother is snoring?
02:02:31  <Rubidium> more like waking up when it's getting light, as an effect getting sleepy quite late
02:03:11  <Belugas> hehee... you're switching to glx's life style ;)\
02:03:13  <Rubidium> in the summer it's more the opposite... being awake till it gets dark, as an effect waking quite late
02:06:19  <Belugas> you should get a child...  thoselittle brats have a tendancy to imnpose their life style quite fast :(
02:06:37  <Belugas> and now, i'm a zombie (alomost)
02:06:51  <Belugas> see you, closing the shop for the night
02:07:04  <Rubidium> I'll just unleash the child in myself :)
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03:57:16  <PeterT> Good nigh
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09:43:20  <Luukland> Mr. Muxy?
09:43:31  <Muxy> i'm here
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09:44:02  <Luukland> have you yet completed a part of the campaign?
09:44:48  <Luukland> I am proud to say "The Luukland Server" is opened :)
09:44:52  <Alberth> for a small enough part, the answer is always yes :)
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11:51:45  <Terkhen> hello
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12:00:47  <andythenorth> hi Terkhen
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12:10:20  <planetmaker> moin moin
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12:11:06  <planetmaker> TrueBrain: concerning bananas: does there exist a kind of API which one could use to upload updates to existing projects via a script or alike?
12:11:30  <planetmaker> We're thinking of adding a commit hook to the devzone so that tagged commits could be uploaded to bananas then automatically
12:12:07  <planetmaker> (if the project is flaged to support this feature)
12:12:33  <TrueBrain> in theory it would be possible, but no real code exists for it
12:12:42  <TrueBrain> but as BaNaNaS is in SVN, I suggest yo make a nice patch for it :)
12:12:55  <planetmaker> he :-)
12:13:21  <planetmaker> but let's see
12:13:24  <planetmaker> thanks
12:14:51  <Eddi|zuHause> use XML!!
12:15:01  <TrueBrain> yeah, great advise!
12:15:07  <TrueBrain> I KNOW ANOTHER ONE! LETS USE TCP!
12:16:19  <planetmaker> we should definitely use whitespace
12:16:58  <Rubidium> use COBOL... it's for businesses and this is definitely a b2b kind of protocol
12:17:04  <Eddi|zuHause> BUT XML IS THE SAVIOUR OF MANKIND
12:17:46  <Alberth> planetmaker:
12:18:05  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i'm fairly sure he meant exactly that :p
12:18:23  <planetmaker> :-) ^
12:18:50  <Alberth> Hmm, I'd expect Whitespace then :)
12:19:08  <planetmaker> you mean s/w/W/?
12:19:22  <Alberth> yes
12:19:57  <planetmaker> well... :-) I shouldh have done it then :-)
12:20:04  <planetmaker> -h
12:20:29  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... so my windows compiler compiles, but somehow the program segfaults on start...
12:21:11  <Alberth> you didn't use enough xml
12:21:28  <planetmaker> haha :-)
12:21:45  <Eddi|zuHause> that must be it...
12:21:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i am such an idiot
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14:48:08  <planetmaker> any thoughts on that: Good idea to disable a grf, if the engine pool is off?
14:53:35  <Eddi|zuHause> well, other way round: skip disable the grf if multiple vehicle sets are on
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14:54:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i find it funny that my "troll" post actually leads to a discussion ;)
14:57:08  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: well, technically it's the same, if I skip disabling, if on, or disable, if not on :-) But I don't know which "troll" posting you refer to...
15:05:23  <fjb> Don't feed Eddi|zuHause!
15:10:36  <Ammler> planetmaker: it isn't the same, eddi's suggestion would also work, if openttd doesn't know about the properity, like old openttd versions.
15:11:04  <planetmaker> right. Fine enough, though. I'll do it that way
15:11:51  <Ammler> hmm, on the other side, dunno, what an old openttd would return...
15:17:11  <planetmaker> well. I certainly will have to check for that version before
15:19:03  <frosch123> flags are zero if not present
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15:21:57  <peter1138> what's being tested for what?
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15:29:02  <frosch123> pm wants to persuade all grf authors to disable their vehicle sets if dynamic engines is disabled
15:29:15  <frosch123> or so
15:30:43  <planetmaker> well. I want to persuade them to not mind anymore after the base settings are local
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15:31:09  <planetmaker> And _I_ will disable the grfs which I develop, if it's off. Less complaints
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15:31:27  <planetmaker> or at least I'll try to persuade my co-developers
15:32:07  <planetmaker> and much easier for me, if I don't have to care about conflicts and stuff
15:32:28  <planetmaker> as you said: GRM is... mostly not used anyway
15:32:34  <planetmaker> and much work to implement
15:32:39  <planetmaker> for little gain
15:33:29  <planetmaker> s/base settings/base costs/
15:33:59  <Ammler> but why do you need to enable it for 2cc?
15:34:19  <Ammler> the higher vehicle IDs should also work wihtout the engine pool, iirc.
15:35:15  <planetmaker> also OpenTTD players don't always enable the pool and then wonder.
15:36:09  <Ammler> maybe you can output a warning, but disabling isn't needed.
15:36:15  <peter1138>
15:36:26  <planetmaker> well, I could, yes. But why?
15:36:46  <peter1138> hehe
15:36:54  <Ammler> maybe someone wants to overrule a 2cc vehicle :-)
15:36:57  <peter1138> well i don't particularly care either way...
15:37:18  <peter1138> but i'm just a fan of pikka's work ;)
15:37:42  <planetmaker> :-) What of his many awesome things do you refer to in particular, peter1138 ?
15:37:52  <planetmaker> Ammler: got a point there, yes
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15:38:22  <Ammler> well, on the other side, you could make a grf for overruling :-)
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15:38:51  <Ammler> override or overwrite, whatever* :-)
15:39:07  <planetmaker> you mean the "only allow co-existance, if parameter set"?
15:39:24  <peter1138> planetmaker, currently... both aviators and aviation... ukrs, tai, pbi...
15:40:04  <peter1138> (also have FISH, HEQS, eGRVTS and newstations & ISR)
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15:49:20  <peter1138> (oh, and using opengfx of course)
15:51:36  <planetmaker> :-)
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15:55:41  <fjb> The only thing I dislaike about OpenGFX are the missing bales of straw on the fields.
15:56:38  <peter1138> damn you
15:56:41  <peter1138> i hadn't even noticed
15:56:44  <peter1138> now it will bug me
15:57:09  <fjb> :-)
15:57:30  <planetmaker> he...
15:57:45  <planetmaker> indeed damn you :-P
15:58:02  <planetmaker> same here
15:58:33  <fjb> So convince the artist to add some. Can not be that hard.
15:59:35  <Rubidium> bug report!
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15:59:45  <fjb> Yeah!
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16:00:20  <LordAzamath> noeh
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16:03:34  <fjb> Moin LordAzamath
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16:08:33  <planetmaker> added to our bug tracker
16:09:06  <fjb> :-)
16:09:30  <fjb> It bugged me the first time I used OpenGFX.
16:09:55  <peter1138> the dreary dim greyness bugged me the first time
16:10:09  <peter1138> i got used to it now, and bright garishness of the original graphics bugs me now ;)
16:11:41  <fjb> It takes some time to get used to it.
16:11:58  <planetmaker> it does.
16:12:28  <fjb> I like the houses.
16:12:43  <fjb> Way more than the original houses.
16:12:45  <planetmaker> Zephyris did most
16:13:17  <planetmaker> when I looked up *how* much he did I was so much more impressed. Having his fingers in 2/3 of all things or so
16:14:25  <fjb> He does it great. But some thing look very "british".
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16:14:53  <planetmaker> No principle fault in that
16:15:16  <planetmaker> The similarity between the UK house set and OpenGFX houses certainly is not accidential :-P
16:15:24  <andythenorth> most of the game looks very 'British" :)
16:15:33  <andythenorth> apart from the 'other' three climates :)
16:15:55  <andythenorth> most of temperate looks like where I live
16:16:14  <planetmaker> he... that'd be something for the 'extra' part: some more actionA for houses - thus have climates really distinct.
16:16:31  <fjb> Temperate looks also central european or part of the USA. You just have to change the houses and vehicles.
16:17:35  <andythenorth> temperate looking live where I live is no coincidence, as Chris Sawyer lived here (dunno about Simon Foster)
16:18:29  <fjb> It also looks like where I live.
16:19:44  <andythenorth> :)
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16:37:50  <planetmaker> hehe. mb wants to split hairs. I can do that, too
16:40:09  <frosch123> lol, did you read those books, or did you just searched for some about the topic?
16:40:19  <planetmaker> I own them, yes.
16:40:29  <planetmaker> I found them actually quite interesting
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16:42:00  <fjb> German forum?
16:42:09  <planetmaker> dunno. They might even be standard reading, if you study sociology / psychology or similar. @fbb: yes
16:42:21  <planetmaker> fjb: ^
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16:58:44  <fjb> I stopped reading the german forum.
16:59:10  <frosch123> i stopped reading intentionally offensive posts :p
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17:05:03  <planetmaker> good choice, I guess
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17:15:55  <peter1138> i can't read the german forum
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17:20:32  <planetmaker> nothing missed actually. He's bitching around as usual without good reason
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17:21:22  <planetmaker> kinda jumping onto things by deliberately misunderstanding it :-)
17:22:01  <peter1138> TELL ME
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17:23:48  <planetmaker> well... I argued that with the local base costs there's no need to start a "disable-orgy" within the German RV set, checking for the presence of each other known RV grf.
17:24:07  <planetmaker> He wants to understand it the way that I argued to disable all other newgrf
17:24:59  <planetmaker> now we argue which part of his words are quotes and which interpretation ;-)
17:27:43  <peter1138> there was a crowd that trested the conflicting-vehicle-sets as a new problem with the 'engine pool'
17:27:47  <peter1138> *treated
17:28:35  <planetmaker> I recall that :-) And that triggered my first posting - directed to the creator of the German RV set - which is not mb
17:29:24  <planetmaker> which could from a certain perspective indeed legitamately be seen as a problem till recently
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17:29:44  <planetmaker> And I pointed out that something changed now wrt base costs
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17:30:25  <planetmaker> and the answer was that base costs were not the main problem, but others he didn't care to elaborate
17:30:38  <planetmaker> ^ he = mb
17:31:24  <planetmaker> which kinda disqualified that discussion at that very point
17:31:37  <Rubidium> planetmaker: we *all* know mb always whines and seldomly gives proper reasons as to why something is wrong
17:32:05  <planetmaker> I know :-) If I bore you, I'll stop here re-iterating it.
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18:08:29  <Eddi|zuHause> since when does tt-forums rescale attached images?
18:08:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i hate that function...
18:08:46  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i hate rescaled images
18:08:55  * Luukland agrees
18:09:12  <Eddi|zuHause> thumbnails i could get used to
18:11:45  <Eddi|zuHause> and is this my imagination or does this also upscale smaller images?
18:16:45  <Eddi|zuHause> <Rubidium> planetmaker: we *all* know mb always whines and seldomly gives proper reasons as to why something is wrong <-- well, he always refers you to a previous discussion. which always also refers to another previous discussion, so you can recursively follow down that road and maybe it actually leads to a valid argument ;)
18:17:46  <planetmaker> ^ that's a bit tedious ;-) given the big chance one would take to step into an infinite cycle
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18:21:19  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: you mean "I've made a post about those bugs somewhen somewhere but I can't be bothered to give you a specific link nor tell you where to look"?
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18:27:39  <peter1138> mostly it's "i don't want other people to be able to play with other vehicles at the same time"
18:28:21  <Luukland> peter1138. are u the peter from the board who asked something in the thread I opened?
18:28:35  <Muxy> no he is not this one
18:28:46  <Muxy> peter1138 is known as PeterN
18:28:52  <Muxy> and our Peter is PeterT
18:28:56  <Luukland> Hmmmm
18:29:10  <Luukland> Why does the world has to be soooo hard....
18:29:16  <PeterT> Hello Luukland
18:29:26  <Muxy> But PeterT is here
18:29:33  <Luukland> I see :)
18:29:49  <PeterT> You could also upload a patch file, with all the changes in it
18:30:26  <Luukland> yet the question is, do we have one ^^
18:30:48  <Muxy> publishing source code is not the actual point we are focussed on
18:31:07  <Luukland> that would require massive documenting
18:31:32  <Muxy> And the source code will not be enough, there is some extra OpenTTD work
18:31:53  <Luukland> yeap some extra outside documenting
18:32:31  <Luukland> Only a true Rubik's Cube solver can understand
18:32:34  <Luukland> Righ muxy?
18:32:48  <Muxy> Yes
18:34:01  <PeterT> Ahh
18:34:18  <PeterT> You used SVN to download the original OpenTTD source, correct?
18:34:41  <Muxy> No
18:35:01  <PeterT> How did you download it?
18:35:13  <Muxy> we didnt download it
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18:35:36  <PeterT> Than how the hell are you running a heavily patched server without downloading the source?
18:36:05  <Luukland> SVN, is that eatable?
18:36:10  <Muxy> Reverse Engeniring or womething like that
18:36:13  <Luukland> Like coconuts?
18:36:29  <Luukland> *Engineering
18:36:56  <Muxy> Yes, that's it Engineering
18:37:48  <PeterT> I'm off
18:37:51  <PeterT> Bye
18:37:53  <Muxy> Anyway, PeterT, i dont want to bother people here with that story
18:38:00  <PeterT> Bye
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18:38:38  <peter1138> reverse engineering openttd? whatever for...
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18:39:23  <Luukland> Openttd Campaigns ^^
18:39:29  <Luukland> And other quests and missions :)
18:42:09  <peter1138> no, i meant why
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19:58:08  <DJNekkid> can a train use RV-based (or plane or ship for that matter) runningcosts?
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19:59:43  <DJNekkid> (A0 property 0E)
20:00:18  <welshdragon> hmm
20:00:31  <welshdragon> I was going to install openttd on my macbook
20:00:44  <welshdragon> but i don't have any virtual machines
20:02:22  <frosch123> DJNekkid: you can, but it will conflict with rv sets. esp. cost modifiers will not be considered local
20:02:49  <planetmaker> welshdragon: why would you need a VM for that?
20:03:07  <frosch123> a very old version of us train set uses ship costs, and it conflicts :)
20:03:09  <planetmaker> frosch123: even with your changes?
20:03:13  <frosch123> yes
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20:03:41  <planetmaker> but if I use one type only, then it wouldn't conflict with another of the same type, right?
20:03:49  <frosch123> well, except you add some roadvehicle :p
20:03:53  <welshdragon> planetmaker: does 0.7.3 work on OSX?
20:04:05  <planetmaker> frosch123: yes, a dummy one then, of course
20:04:09  <planetmaker> welshdragon: sure
20:04:25  <frosch123> but i would consider that "not intentional"
20:04:39  <planetmaker> frosch123: hehe ;-)
20:04:46  <planetmaker> how bad would such abuse be?
20:05:01  <frosch123> your fault, if it breaks due to other priorities
20:05:16  <frosch123> anyway, why would you want to use another multiplier?
20:05:34  <frosch123> the old us set did it only, because there were no base cost mulitpliers at that time
20:05:44  <frosch123> but why would you want to do it today?
20:05:56  <planetmaker> I guess different cost schemes for metro, EMU, DMU, ICEs, cargo haulers
20:06:06  <planetmaker> DJNekkid's idea :-P
20:06:26  *** welshdragon [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:06:29  * planetmaker points with a finger and 'wasn't me! wasn't me!' ;-)
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20:07:24  <frosch123> ok, you could use the rv cost multiplier for metro as long as you do not set a mutiplier yourself. other rv sets would use their local mutipliers, and difficulty-modifying newgrfs changed rv costs would then change metro cost
20:07:49  *** LadyHawk [] has quit [Quit: << nsfw]
20:07:55  <frosch123> if you consider metro just as some kind of rv, it should be ok. but don't mess with real rv sets :)
20:07:59  *** welshdragon [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:08:15  <planetmaker> :-) ok
20:08:17  *** welshdragon [] has joined #openttd
20:08:53  <frosch123> but, of course you could also solve the stuff using action6 and grf parameters
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20:12:11  <planetmaker> The 2ccTrainSet already has running costs as function of grfparameters. The idea was to have access to one or two more. But... yes, could be guarded by another incompatibility parameter or so
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20:14:29  <DJNekkid> frosch123: the point was (i were slightly afk) that the running cost is (according to planetmaker) now local for the newgrfs...
20:14:52  <DJNekkid> you can have more trainsets then one, and the changes done in trainset1 dont affect trainset2 ...
20:14:56  <frosch123> yes, but they are only local if there is some action0/3 for the feature
20:15:25  <frosch123> defining a train makes the train-related costs loca, defining a rv makes the rv-related costs local
20:15:52  <frosch123> <- third column
20:16:11  <DJNekkid> so ... if i make a RV in a trainset, that have for example property6 (iirc) (climate availability) to 00, that should be concidered both trainset and RV-set ?
20:16:27  <frosch123> yes, but it would be cheating
20:16:46  <DJNekkid> but it would still be concidered local, right?
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20:17:14  <frosch123> in the current implementation yes. i have no intention to change that, but cheats are more likely to break
20:17:48  <frosch123> and of course, when another grf increases rv cost globally, it will affect your grf
20:18:15  <DJNekkid> but another trainset wont?
20:19:17  <frosch123> a trainset can globally change rv costs if it wants to change them for difficulty reasons
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20:19:33  <frosch123> just like all those monolithical sets out there change track building costs
20:19:50  <planetmaker> like the 2ccTrainset does :-P
20:20:02  <DJNekkid> but then, how do i define that a "trainset" is just a trainset, and not a, lets say, shipset ?
20:20:19  <frosch123> by defining a train :p
20:20:20  <DJNekkid> and, what if i want to make a, lets say, french vehicle set, with both train, air and RV's ?
20:20:38  <frosch123> should also work
20:20:41  <DJNekkid> oki ...
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20:22:13  <DJNekkid> then, if i make a trainset, and want a 4th running cost, i can use, lets say RV runningcost, and make a action 0-1-2-3 chain, but it cant be baught, because the climate availability is set to 0 ?
20:22:40  <DJNekkid> then it _should_ be local in my grf, right?
20:23:37  <frosch123> if you set a rv multiplier in your grf, it will be local. other sets can still change the multipliers, but they will be added to the local multipliers (not overwritten)
20:24:14  <DJNekkid> i.e. a RV-set wont be affected by my trainset?
20:25:26  <frosch123> the "intention" is: a rv set defines rvs, and defines a multiplier of x8 for the running costs to balance the set. then there is a second set which does not define any rv, but generally wants to increase rv costs x4 to make the game more difficult. that will cause the rv of the rv set to get x32 costs.
20:25:52  <DJNekkid> i see
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20:26:04  <DJNekkid> but then again, what im saying will actually work?
20:26:22  <frosch123> as i said, currently yes.
20:26:26  <DJNekkid> oki :)
20:26:30  <DJNekkid> all i wanted to know :)
20:26:32  <DJNekkid> and, thanx!
20:26:35  <frosch123> :)
20:26:39  <planetmaker> On the cost that a difficulty grf, trying to affect the running cost of RV will affect you there then, too
20:27:05  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: Maybe we should even re-consider tuning the track building costs.
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20:27:19  <DJNekkid> this is an VERY VERY VERY appreciated thing by the community frosch123... GREAT work!
20:27:24  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: parameter to disable it :)
20:27:39  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: other way around?
20:27:46  <DJNekkid> parameter to enable?
20:27:48  <planetmaker> yes
20:27:51  <DJNekkid> hmm ...
20:27:53  <DJNekkid> no :)
20:28:04  <DJNekkid> the reason is valid imho ...
20:28:11  <planetmaker> But... but... I want to be as standard as possible
20:28:18  <DJNekkid> DMU's are more expensive to operate, cost less ...
20:28:31  <frosch123> planetmaker: there is only one global multiplier, so if you load a difficulty grf last it will win over the rest
20:28:34  <DJNekkid> but EMU's require alot more hard cash to operate
20:28:57  <DJNekkid> as the infrastruckture is more expensive
20:29:14  <planetmaker> yes. But e-rail is usually already more expensive, right?
20:29:23  <DJNekkid> 5% or something
20:29:32  <DJNekkid> not any noticable difference anyway
20:30:15  <DJNekkid> abit more then 5%, but still
20:30:19  <DJNekkid> 90 vs 127£
20:30:28  <planetmaker> well. At least an option to disable any messing with non-global base costs
20:30:29  <DJNekkid> on whatever difficulty i were at
20:30:37  <planetmaker> which is about 40%
20:30:40  <DJNekkid> yup, it always have been there...
20:30:59  <DJNekkid> still not particulary noticable
20:31:36  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... lovely snow...
20:31:37  <Luukland> e-real is a bad choice :P
20:31:47  <Luukland> just like cargodestination
20:31:51  <DJNekkid> with the current 10x price of elrails it actually matters, alot
20:32:05  <DJNekkid> there is a reason to use the DMU's
20:32:09  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: also 2cc is no big challenge, if played my way
20:32:53  <planetmaker> There's no way to make money _the_ challenge of OpenTTD. At least in a fail-save way
20:33:21  <Luukland> I got a silver coil challenge yet implented :P
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20:34:05  <DJNekkid> planetmaker: i also think that actually is a balance...
20:34:14  <planetmaker> Luukland: two mates and myself joined the last goal server which was around. We won easily ;-)
20:34:35  <DJNekkid> hard enough, and ultimate challange
20:34:38  <Luukland> I am not talking about the goal server :P
20:34:42  <planetmaker> (doesn't mean it's a bad thing to have it)
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20:34:58  <DJNekkid> in 1.0.x there were a parameter to increase the cost a twofold
20:35:51  <Luukland> I am talking about the introduction of a new dimension to OTTD
20:35:56  <planetmaker> In 2.0 there currently still is, DJNekkid
20:35:59  <Luukland> which is the OTTD Campaign :)
20:36:06  <planetmaker> They're still all there, that parameter #1 to modify costs
20:36:13  <DJNekkid> yea :)
20:36:17  <DJNekkid> i guess so
20:36:22  <DJNekkid> not done much with that yet
20:36:28  <planetmaker> I know :-P I just edited that file today ;-)
20:36:48  <DJNekkid> GJ :)
20:36:50  <planetmaker> (but not those lines)
20:37:43  <DJNekkid> hehe
20:37:55  <DJNekkid> <3 Heineken
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20:39:51  <planetmaker> uh... not today. Had too much of other (better!) stuff yesterday :-P
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20:41:03  <DJNekkid> hehe
20:41:10  <DJNekkid> i had a good few myself yesterday
20:41:12  <DJNekkid> had a gig :)
20:41:49  <planetmaker> :-)
20:42:01  <DJNekkid> even got one today... my 3rd this week
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20:42:44  <planetmaker> uh...
20:43:00  <planetmaker> btw, maybe let's add the param discussion to one of our 2cc tickets.
20:43:22  <DJNekkid> yea, good idea
20:43:31  <planetmaker> then it a) doesn't get forgotten and b) it's easier to keep track of what was thought and argued
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20:45:06  <DJNekkid> hence the "Wanna make a draft of the parameters?" earlier :P
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20:46:31  <planetmaker> hehe :-P
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21:01:32  <batti5> Hi everyone, batti5s back.
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21:04:20  <planetmaker> wth was that?
21:04:22  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18468 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Codechange: make sure one never makes self-loops using Vehicle::SetNext
21:09:47  <Eddi|zuHause> you don't know batti5?
21:10:21  <planetmaker> I hoped I'd have forgotten
21:10:37  <Eddi|zuHause> :)
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21:11:54  <Eddi|zuHause> needed to clear the history of his name? :p
21:12:11  <planetmaker> :-P
21:12:34  <planetmaker> rather would have needed to make sure to press cmd+W in the correct window. Alas
21:13:44  * Rubidium slaps Eddi|zuHause for mentioning that name...
21:14:00  <Eddi|zuHause> batti5, the only person i ever saw to gloriously fail a turing test :p
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21:34:07  <DJNekkid> abit much work to open a new command-window, just to press W ... and what does that do?
21:34:15  <DJNekkid> CTRL-W would be much better :P
21:34:17  <DJNekkid> :D:D
21:36:15  <planetmaker> DJNekkid: my CMD is your CTRL in this context ;-)
21:36:35  <DJNekkid> i know, im just a bitch :)
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21:42:02  <planetmaker> <-- what about?
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21:56:25  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18469 /trunk/src/console_cmds.cpp: -Fix (r17139): possible invalid reads when listing content on the console
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22:11:55  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18470 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Codechange/Fix [part of FS#3146]: moving vehicles around in the depot could create states that are not allowed by the NewGRF attach callback.
22:15:27  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r18471 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_order.cpp ai_vehicle.cpp): -Codechange/Fix: [NoAI] Deduplicate code betweeen AIVehicle::SkipToVehicleOrder and AIOrder::SkipToOrder. They are the same. Also ORDER_CURRENT was not allowed for the latter, but well...
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22:19:01  <Darkvater> hi guys
22:19:13  <Rubidium> evening
22:19:26  <Darkvater> how's everyone doing?
22:20:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm way too lazy for my own good
22:21:06  <Rubidium> working on some complex NewGRF 'caused' bugs
22:21:11  <Eddi|zuHause> and my tuba got stolen while it was in my friends car
22:21:58  <Darkvater> congrats all to open[sg]fx release :D
22:22:04  <Darkvater> it's been a looooooong time
22:22:09  <Darkvater> Rubidium: we just love those :)
22:22:39  <Darkvater> hmm, I should start playing ottd again
22:22:42  <Darkvater> I do miss it
22:23:16  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a rabbit hole that you won't ever get out of again
22:23:32  <Darkvater> I don't think I'm even out yet
22:24:14  <Darkvater> I see Rubidium is doing an awesome lot of work. Where do you get all the time from?
22:24:26  <Darkvater> I bet he has some time-machine that he's hogging all for himself
22:25:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i wondered that exact same thing myself
22:26:46  <Darkvater> lemme get a recent nightly
22:27:18  <Darkvater> I have till Monday to sober up :p
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22:27:42  <Darkvater> ls
22:27:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd like cargodist, but i think it's unlikely to get trunk-ready before the next release
22:27:53  * Darkvater doesn't deserve an op status atm
22:28:40  <Eddi|zuHause> but last time i made a preditcion of trunk-readiness of a feature it got slapped in my face like two hours later :p
22:28:53  <Darkvater> hehe
22:29:03  <Darkvater> mmh, I'd like
22:29:08  <Darkvater> what actually?
22:29:28  <Darkvater> more eyecandy, natural reserves, cliffs
22:29:34  <Darkvater> all kinda crap :P
22:30:14  <Darkvater> anybody thought about updating the title screen for the next release? This one was made by Dominik..back in 2005-ish
22:30:33  <Rubidium> yes, never really happened though
22:30:35  <Darkvater> lol, I can move around the title screen
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22:30:41  <Eddi|zuHause> there were a few title screen contests
22:30:41  <Rubidium> it's perfect for trunk though
22:31:08  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, test for loading old savegames :p
22:31:33  <Darkvater> I'll promise you guys, if I have time I'll make a new one that is so awesome it'll blow minds, tropical
22:32:36  <Darkvater> that music is just so in my blood
22:33:24  <Eddi|zuHause> one of the problems for a new title game is that it should look good on 640x480 as well as on 4000x3000-ish
22:34:58  <Eddi|zuHause> other problem is that it cannot show off any of the cool newgrf features like trams etc.
22:35:09  <Darkvater> are you telling me Eddi|zuHause ?
22:35:15  <Darkvater> that's sweet :-)
22:35:40  <Eddi|zuHause> no, i'm just brabbling along aimlessly ;)
22:35:56  <Darkvater> :)
22:36:09  <Darkvater> bbs, needa reboot
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22:36:48  <Eddi|zuHause> blasphemy!!
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22:41:05  <planetmaker> [23:30]	<Darkvater>	anybody thought about updating the title screen for the next release? This one was made by Dominik..back in 2005-ish <-- I can offer
22:41:45  <planetmaker> ah... not here :-P
22:42:12  <Zuu> Indeed, was just typing a message to inform you about that, but you was quicker than my typing. :-)
22:44:29  <planetmaker> :-)
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22:47:49  <Zuu> planetmaker: That title game is nice, execept maybe for the station-walk or whatever you call it nowdays.
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22:48:44  <planetmaker> hm... did I use station walk there?
22:48:59  <Zuu> Yep, in the lower right.
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22:49:37  <Zuu> For Kornheim Airport. It has a one-tile station part next to the factory.
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22:49:47  <planetmaker> ah
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22:50:28  <planetmaker> I guess one of the problems is to get a) every possible feature shown and b) every company profitable ;-) and c) make it look nice
22:51:12  <Zuu> Yea, and avoiding to have bad tricks shown to the users.
22:51:45  <planetmaker> but you're right. That piece of station looks out-of-place
22:52:24  <Zuu> Would it be possible to remove the depot and move the factory to the other side?
22:53:25  <planetmaker> it's possible to replace the station piece by a drive-through road stop
22:54:29  <planetmaker> moving the factory... might or might not work :-)
22:55:02  <Zuu> Why not?
22:55:44  <Zuu> (I'm trying it out right now by the way, but with the last nightly, so I would have to re-do it with something older if you want to have the change)
22:56:51  <Zuu> Though, a bit of fiddling will be needed to get it look nice.
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22:57:05  <planetmaker> I try myself with a somewhat recent nightly.
22:57:11  <Eddi|zuHause> "vegetarian trolls turn people into plants and then eat them"
22:57:15  <planetmaker> that game is anyway r16xxx +
22:57:25  <Eddi|zuHause> what did these people smoke when filming that? :p
22:57:50  <Zuu> You probably don't even need to remove the train depot.
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22:59:28  <planetmaker> well... w/o deleting the tracks I don't manage
23:00:00  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18472 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3146]: selling vehicles in the depot could create states that are not allowed by the NewGRF attach callback.
23:00:17  <frosch123> [23:41] <planetmaker> [23:30]<Darkvater>anybody thought about updating the title screen for the next release? This one was made by Dominik..back in 2005-ish <-- I can offer
23:00:25  * frosch123 just wanted to be faster
23:00:28  <planetmaker> ty, frosch123
23:00:32  <Darkvater> :)
23:01:40  <planetmaker> planets are slow in making while frogs jump fast :-P
23:02:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i did want to tell about that earlier, but i was too lazy to search for the link...
23:02:53  <planetmaker> Zuu: I guss adding a road stop is indeed the much easier solution. And IMO it's not like it looks bad
23:03:44  <Zuu> That is probably a good solution.
23:04:00  <Zuu> Here is my first attempt:
23:04:01  <frosch123> i always wondered about the isolated canal parts in that game
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23:04:50  <planetmaker> isolate canal? Where?
23:04:57  <frosch123> and we need some way to make rivers static :s
23:05:03  <planetmaker> (long time since I created this map)
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23:05:29  <frosch123> planetmaker: just around Kornheim
23:05:29  <Zuu> Maybe next to the locks?
23:05:33  <planetmaker> looks good, Zuu
23:05:55  <frosch123> (Kornheim the train station)
23:05:59  <planetmaker> ah... those in Kornheim
23:06:01  <Zuu> planetmaker: Ok, but I think it was nice as you made it with the both industries next to eachother.
23:06:22  <planetmaker> I tried to make a venice-like city. Of sorts
23:06:44  <planetmaker> or they're the local re-creational area with a lake where people do duck-feeding and alike
23:07:07  <frosch123> well, but the station in the middle of water looks weird
23:07:25  <frosch123> maybe only the two tile southwest of the station look weird
23:07:30  <frosch123> and the stuff northeast is ok
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23:09:56  <planetmaker> hm, yes. Thanks. Changed :-)
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23:12:22  <planetmaker> and it's a nicely cheated game :-P
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23:12:38  <Zuu> hehe, yea :-)
23:14:42  <Zuu> Under the aqueduct, at the top/left end, there is a four-way street junction which is only attached at one edge of the junction. Is that intended?
23:14:42  <frosch123> the gamelog blames you started it in scenedit :p (though the rivers also do)
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23:15:13  <planetmaker> Zuu: no, the town built it, I think
23:15:45  <planetmaker> frosch123: yes, sure. I needed it for the rivers and some landscaping in order to have the map fit my ideas
23:15:55  <Zuu> Ok, I think some of the roads that go off here and there are okay, they give a bit of life to the road network, but that one looks abit weird.
23:16:41  <Zuu> And you got a nice pling-plong-pling thing in there too :-D
23:16:49  <planetmaker> I'd call starting in the SE though, just individualized map generation
23:17:02  <planetmaker> what's a pling-plong-pling?!?
23:17:20  <Zuu> A road-rail intersection.
23:17:25  <planetmaker> oh
23:17:38  <Zuu> Not sure how to spell the sound in English.
23:18:05  <planetmaker> level crossing
23:18:21  <planetmaker> but yes: it's a feature and needs to be present :-)
23:18:32  <planetmaker> It just needs not ringing every second 10 times
23:18:37  <Zuu> well, that is the word for the thing, but not how you would spell out the sound right? :-)
23:18:52  <planetmaker> I wouldn't even know that in my mother tongue
23:19:28  <Zuu> Maybe you don't spell out weird sounds that much :-)
23:20:02  <planetmaker> I usually don't write them :-P
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23:24:23  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18473 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r18470): crash when moving a multiheaded part to be just after itself
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23:28:21  <Eddi|zuHause> something's weird with the ICE-TD... you can't move a second ICE-TD behind an existing one, but when you first move a long distance carriage to the second ICE-TD you then can attach that one to the first. anybody ever noticed that?
23:28:48  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if that happens with the ICE 1 also
23:29:28  <Eddi|zuHause> my version is a few months old, though, didn't test with a current nightly
23:30:30  <planetmaker> we only use ICE as intended by the newgrf author :-P
23:30:40  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: the wagon movement has just been rewritten...
23:31:56  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i'm fairly sure that "multiheading" ICE-TD is "realistic" ;)
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23:32:14  <frosch123> but only in a certain year with a certain unitnumber
23:32:43  <frosch123> and it is only activated when you use the correct company colours
23:33:11  <Eddi|zuHause> dbset doesn't actually use company colours ;)
23:35:31  <Eddi|zuHause> did anyone hear that they want to electrify the line [Dresden-Zwickau-]Reichenbach-Plauen-Hof-N?rnberg? [the route that was used by the ICE-TD]
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23:42:37  <thingwath> do they?
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23:49:42  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18474 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r18470): in some odd corner cases the group (vehicle) counts could be off
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23:56:29  <Eddi|zuHause> apparently they want to start the first section in Reichenbach in 2010, reach Plauen by 2012 and Hof by 2013
23:56:53  <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r18475 /branches/0.7/src/genworld.cpp: [0.7] -Fix (r18300)[FS#3344]: Initialisation of cargo payment works different in 0.7 than trunk r18207.
23:58:28  <Eddi|zuHause>
23:59:25  <Eddi|zuHause> but no word on when they want to finish Hof-Bayreuth-N?rnberg

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