Log for #openttd on 21st December 2009:
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08:01:51  <terinjokes> TrueBrain: building works, except I need to work out how I'm linking to libraries
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08:21:21  <pavel1269> hello
08:22:54  <Alberth> moin
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08:28:05  <peter1138> er, what, how should i remove the s in drwxrwsr-x?
08:28:22  <Noldo> cvhmod g-s ?
08:28:25  <Noldo> *chmod
08:29:06  <peter1138> oh, that works
08:29:13  <peter1138> i was trying chmod 0775 :d
08:41:11  <dihedral> interesting, that should actually work too, due to the leading 0
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09:12:55  <peter1138> that's what i thought
09:12:58  <peter1138> but it doesn't
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09:16:13  <Alberth> chmod(1) agrees with you: "... a  directory's set-user-ID and set-group-ID ... and you can set (but not clear) the bits with a numeric mode."
09:23:42  <peter1138> ah
09:23:52  <peter1138> bloody stuff
09:24:00  <peter1138> it's not like i'm a unix noob ;(
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09:32:16  <pavel1269> problem at windows :-) ... cygwin succesfully removed some privileges, and now i cant even run it, and only way i know to return those privileges is by cygwin ... what now? :P
09:32:59  <planetmaker> re-install cygwin :-P
09:33:08  <pavel1269> cant acces some filders still
09:33:09  <pavel1269> :-)
09:33:14  <pavel1269> *folders
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09:33:41  <pavel1269> and making when it break, new and new folder for cygwin is ...
09:35:29  <Alberth> peter1138: it does seem kind of strange to only change with chmod in symbolic mode, but no doubt there is a good rationale for it.
09:36:16  <planetmaker> "has always been that way" - does that suffice? ;-)
09:36:42  <pavel1269> lol, gonna try CHMOD-Win :-)
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09:38:10  <Alberth> planetmaker: 'for historical reasons' is also good, never change a working system without real need :)
09:38:43  <planetmaker> never touch a running system and never run a touchy system?
09:39:17  <Alberth> yes, we should stop OpenTTD dev immediately
09:39:24  <peter1138> probably because "chmod 755" would get rid of it, or something
09:39:24  <planetmaker> :-D
09:40:40  <Alberth> but there are such weird users, wanting more and more features every year :)
09:40:46  <planetmaker> Alberth: the only problem with hardware (or with a whole system for that matter) most often is: there's no such convenient thing as 'hg revert' or alike
09:41:35  <Alberth> with virtual machines, you have the 'whole system' quite easily :)
09:42:04  <Alberth> but for hardware, it is somewhat more difficult :)
09:42:08  <planetmaker> with virtual machines virtually anything is rvertable. But... ^
09:42:54  <pavel1269> yay, i got it to work ...
09:43:00  * Alberth considers setting up a hg repo at /
09:43:12  <pavel1269> btw, is here a way, i can run just chmod.exe with parameters?
09:43:21  <planetmaker> Alberth: it might make sense. Maybe not for / but for /etc
09:43:40  <planetmaker> That's what we did on our devzone server :-D
09:44:28  <Alberth> I was more realistically thinking of doing that for the ~/.* config files of all apps.
09:44:46  <planetmaker> well, but that's your personal dir, is it?
09:45:18  <Alberth> yep, and I work at something like 3 machines, so some sharing may be beneficial
09:45:43  <planetmaker> we did it with /etc so that changes are kinda documented... and it works moderately well. And testing is also easy: just edit and if it doesn't work, just revert.
09:46:05  <Alberth> yeah, sounds good.
09:46:18  <Alberth> I did something similar for a buildbot I run @ work
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09:54:03  <peter1138> ~/.config/ is good, btw
09:54:17  <peter1138> keeps ~ a bit clearer
09:54:22  <peter1138> or would do if everything used it ;)
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10:24:13  <bartavelle> hello
10:25:22  <Alberth> moin
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10:27:42  <Sacro> peter1138: shouldn't that be $XDG_CONFIG_DIR or something
10:27:50  <Sacro> rather than hardcoding .config
10:27:53  <peter1138> well yes
10:28:23  <Sacro> no, $XDG_CONFIG_HOME
10:29:43  <peter1138> and _DIRS
10:30:11  <peter1138> hmm, so which part of openttd's .openttd is data, and which is config? heh
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10:33:59  <Terkhen> good morning
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11:14:34  <SpComb^> <-- vehicle_gui.cpp:184: byte GetBestFittingSubType(Vehicle*, Vehicle*): Assertion `HasBit(e_for->info.refit_mask, v_from->cargo_type)' failed
11:19:24  <SpComb^> in latest trunk
11:21:28  <Alberth> a better place would be
11:21:49  <peter1138> a better place would be at home, with a bacon butty
11:23:03  <SpComb^> oh look, trunk already has a setting to slow down/speed up town growth
11:23:15  <SpComb^> yay
11:23:28  <Alberth> peter1138: definitely
11:23:45  <SpComb^> Alberth: cba :(
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11:32:24  <peter1138> :s
11:32:29  <peter1138> Mem:   2063496k total,  2045860k used
11:32:38  <peter1138> Swap:  1951888k total,  1950992k used
11:33:22  <Alberth> doing a HD test :p
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16:06:33  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r18583 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Add WWT_SHADEBOX widget and its functions (heavily based on code by erikjanp).
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16:12:22  <planetmaker> \o/
16:12:36  <planetmaker> nice :-)
16:12:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r18584 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Codechange: Generalize MakeWidgetTree to read only one widget (recursively).
16:13:12  * planetmaker wonders whether it is curstom to add (bigger) features only around Christmas...
16:13:18  <planetmaker> s/curstom/custom/
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16:13:29  <Zuu> Hmm, what is a shade box?
16:13:42  <planetmaker> like reduce window to its title bar only
16:13:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18585 /trunk/src/ (date_type.h genworld_gui.cpp table/settings.h tile_type.h): -Codechange: replace some magic numbers by constants
16:13:44  <planetmaker> and back
16:13:58  <Zuu> Oh
16:14:00  <planetmaker> (I only know as I recall that patch)
16:14:17  <planetmaker> and added the grfs to OpenGFX today ;-)
16:14:57  <Alberth> more a matter of devs having more time around xmas probably :)
16:14:58  <Zuu> I know the feature, after all I've implemented it in Junctioneer since many many years, though under a different name. :-)
16:15:25  <planetmaker> he :-) I don't find "shading" a intuitive name for that feature...
16:15:50  <planetmaker> but then... who cares? ;-)
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16:16:49  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18586 /trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3398]: pressing default for the starting year/snow line height edit boxes of the world generation windows didn't work.
16:16:53  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r18587 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h window.cpp): -Codechange: Insert a shade selection widget in the widget tree when the window starts with a title bar with a shade box.
16:18:04  <Alberth> I don't think I will use it much :)
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16:24:55  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r18588 /trunk/src/ (22 files in 2 dirs): -Feature [FS#2943]: Add shading and unshading of windows.
16:25:00  <Alberth> now you can test :)
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16:29:02  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r18589 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Add tooltip to some network windows, remove old comment.
16:34:45  <planetmaker> .-)
16:35:41  <Alberth> although the red info circle did work, the title bar just got a bit higher
16:36:56  <Alberth> btw, the sweets factory in the form of a big cake is brilliant.
16:37:20  <Alberth> the plastic fountains could use some more work though imo
16:38:34  <planetmaker> :-)
16:39:20  <planetmaker> well... The fountains are ok IMO - but if you have a more detailed advise... maybe it can be helped :-)
16:40:52  <planetmaker> hm... irritating is the resize of the title bar when activating shading and de-activating it.
16:43:52  <Alberth> perhaps a thicker and slower (pulsing) stream from each fountain? now it looks just a bit of random sputtering to me. Also, the floor underneath the fountains is too clean.
16:46:35  <Alberth> yes, the resizing takes some getting used to. Advantage is that you need less space. I haven't yet decided the best idea there.
16:47:14  <Alberth> The width should be preservable by a clever rx and ry value to ReInit() in SetShaded.
16:47:24  <Alberth> but first some food :)
16:48:19  <Alberth> you can use the scrollwheel at the caption for (un)shading.
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16:54:53  <planetmaker> enjoy your food :-)
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17:45:16  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18590 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3397]: too strict assert was triggered
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18:12:15  <SpComb^> yay
18:12:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18591 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Fix [FS#3399]: FindScrollbar could trigger an assert if the next widget (in the widget array) was a container-ish (e.g. selection) widget
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18:13:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18592 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Fix (r18591): argh... save after starting the commit :(
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18:18:41  <SpComb^> you're wasting revision numbers :o
18:19:00  <Rubidium> yeah... I want that party badly :)
18:20:06  <Zuu> While reaching 1.0 is seen as totaly irrelevant, even number revision numbers are seen as an excelent excuse for a party. :-)
18:20:30  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18593 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Fix: GetWidget call case similar to r18591
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18:24:13  <Alberth> reaching 1.0 takes way too long to wait for :)
18:26:10  <planetmaker> nearly any time is a good time for a party ;-)
18:26:30  <planetmaker> hurray for the odd revision number party ;-)
18:26:45  <Rubidium> planetmaker: yeah, like nailing someone to a piece of wood :)
18:26:52  <planetmaker> :-D
18:27:08  <planetmaker> for the 2009th time?
18:27:11  <planetmaker> OMG!
18:27:59  <Rubidium> hmm 425 commits a month (extrapolating from previous month)
18:28:32  <Rubidium> @calc (3+21/31) * 425 + 18593
18:28:32  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 20155.9032258
18:29:04  <Rubidium> oh, that's wrong
18:29:16  <Rubidium> @calc (3+10/31) * 425 + 18593
18:29:16  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 20005.0967742
18:29:54  <Rubidium> release 0.8 at r20000?
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18:32:23  <pavel1269> 31.3 2010 will be release 0.8 - pinned :-)
18:34:51  <Rubidium> people who know me know that that's not going to happen
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18:44:32  <planetmaker> Rubidium: I'd like to upload a nightly of fish to bananas...
18:44:52  <planetmaker> so that we can test it ingame in the next(?) PS game
18:45:18  <planetmaker> I asked andy a few day ago and it was fine with him... but obviously he never got around to uploading it
18:45:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r18594 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
18:45:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
18:45:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 7 changes by habell
18:45:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
18:45:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: korean - 47 changes by junho2813
18:45:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 7 changes by Zhygometh
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19:09:33  <kratt> i need some who can edit vehicle stats in openttd
19:09:52  <Gremnon> you can do that by newgrf, or editing the base code for them
19:09:56  <Gremnon> take your pick
19:11:38  <kratt> mhh
19:11:42  <kratt> what is easiest way
19:11:53  <frosch123> just download the "logic train" from bananas, it will suit all your needs
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19:12:11  <Gremnon> there is learning NFO for grfs.... but that works just as well I guess
19:12:33  <kratt> where can i see those logic trains
19:12:41  <kratt> and what NFO for grfs
19:12:51  <Gremnon> Start OpenTTD, click online content download, look in list
19:12:57  <Gremnon> and NFO is the code that makes a grf work
19:13:04  <Gremnon> ...hmm...
19:15:53  <kratt> nope there is no logic trains or banana
19:16:08  <kratt> how can i edit that NFO
19:16:22  <Gremnon> Have a look at the TTDPatch wiki, it even has a tutorial on it
19:16:43  <kratt> but it is for TTDPatch
19:16:45  <kratt> i dont got that
19:16:49  <Gremnon> it also applies to openttd
19:18:38  <Zuu> kratt: search for "logic"
19:18:50  <Ammler> I might have limited the logic train for nightlies only
19:19:01  <Zuu> Or click the in-game content download button and search for logic.
19:19:02  <Ammler> as it is a bit cheating ;-)
19:19:45  <Gremnon> So's running a road AI, not using roads yourselves, interconnecting all towns, and then starting 3 street traffic AIs to bog down the road AI
19:19:55  <Gremnon> they seem to have a bit of trouble turning a profit then
19:20:15  <pavel1269> are they even trying to have profit?
19:20:29  <Gremnon> well, they try to, and often beat me after a few years
19:20:36  <Gremnon> so I kill them off with the street traffic instead
19:20:44  <Zuu> pavel1269: Why wouldn't the AIs try to get profit?
19:21:03  <Ammler> kratt: source: and tar:
19:21:06  <Zuu> As far as I know it it is only TownCars and StreetTraffic that does not aim for profit.
19:21:27  <Zuu> And the regression AI if you count it.
19:21:39  <Gremnon> Well, they're meant for eyecandy really... and getting in the way of actual trying to make profit road AIs
19:22:51  <Zuu> Of course a road using company will have problem if the roads are clogged up.
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19:23:17  <Gremnon> exactly why I run three when any road AI does better than me
19:23:23  <Gremnon> petty and nasty, but that's the way I am
19:23:29  <pavel1269> Zuu: at those AIs was my question exactly aimed
19:23:55  <Zuu> pavel1269: Okay, then the answer is no. :-)
19:24:29  <Zuu> TownCars is probably a bit more economical as it does not replace its vehicles.
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19:28:31  <kratt> ammler
19:28:46  <kratt> i cant see that logic train
19:28:50  <kratt> i added it to newgrf
19:28:53  <kratt> but nothing
19:29:28  <Ammler> kratt: it looks like the toyland maglev and is called Something Gator
19:29:44  <kratt> ok i see it now
19:30:32  <kratt> did you make that yourself right now?
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19:30:42  <Gremnon> ... it's been there for a while, I'm sure
19:31:04  <Ammler> if "right now" is around some months, yes
19:33:39  *** Singaporekid [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:34:02  <andythenorth> schnow
19:34:10  <kratt> can i edit it? or create a new one?
19:36:48  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:39:31  <Ammler> kratt: yes, it is GPL :-)
19:40:20  <kratt> thanks ill try that
19:40:29  <Ammler> easiest might be to replace the properities with Action6
19:40:39  <Ammler> my source shows that with the speed.
19:41:37  *** elmz [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:47:22  <planetmaker> hehe
19:47:46  <kratt> what is action6?
19:47:50  *** Grelouk [] has joined #openttd
19:47:52  <planetmaker> kratt: newgrf is a format used by both, TTDP and OpenTTD
19:48:03  *** Terkhen [] has quit [Quit: ...]
19:48:24  <planetmaker> both support nearly all things equally, some are different but documented in the TTDP newgrf wiki
19:48:26  <pavel1269> kratt: search at ttdp wiki
19:48:39  <planetmaker> If you look at the authors you'll find the usual openttd devs are regular editors there, too
19:48:48  * Gremnon wonders if people even remember how to look at TTDP/OTTD wikis anymore
19:48:58  *** Polygon [] has quit [Quit: Flieht, ihr Narren!]
19:49:11  <Alberth> kratt:
19:49:17  <planetmaker> <-- it's my common referrer
19:49:25  <planetmaker> hm.. Alberth is faster
19:49:39  <planetmaker> and I nearly skipped the 's' in faster :-P
19:49:40  <Alberth> but has less comment :)
19:49:53  <kratt> thing is im looking this page already
19:50:09  <kratt> and i extracted ammlers logic train
19:50:21  <pavel1269> so dont ask that much questions, which are answered there?
19:50:37  <planetmaker> you might rather than de-compile it... check out the source. That's far better readable
19:50:54  <planetmaker> it's an open source newgrf.
19:51:15  <kratt> i mean de-compiled okay
19:51:24  <kratt> i got .tar
19:51:29  <kratt> now i got .grf
19:51:39  <Alberth> grfcodec can decompile a .grf
19:51:44  <kratt> decompiled, now .nfo and .pcx
19:51:53  <Ammler> why not using the source file, isn't that easier to read?
19:52:12  <Alberth> it's not in the tar
19:52:14  <planetmaker>
19:52:16  <kratt> you mean that Trac page u sent?
19:52:38  <planetmaker> kratt: yes, sure.
19:52:45  <planetmaker> or that link I gave.
19:53:04  <kratt> okay im looking the source and decompiled
19:53:05  <planetmaker> I mean... if you can afford to skip all comments, you can use the de-compiled version. Sure.
19:53:11  <Ammler> today, I would make a Makefile :-)
19:54:17  <planetmaker> :-)
19:54:22  <kratt> lets say i want to change name and make speed 500mph
19:54:32  <planetmaker> my example newgrf needs updating to my latest "standards"
19:54:52  <kratt> i need to know how 500 is in hex?
19:55:05  <Gremnon> I'm sure if you pass the right parameter to the grf in the newgrf window, it changes the speed to 500 for you
19:55:11  <Gremnon> isn't that how it's meant to work?
19:55:12  <Alberth> find how the name of a vehicle is encoded in the newgrf
19:55:47  <Alberth> 0x200 - 0xC = 0x1F4
19:56:42  <Alberth> assuming the speed is encoded as m/h
19:57:13  <Gremnon> ... just how exactly does it work? you put in some number, it does something to it, and from that calculates the train's top speed?
19:57:25  <Ammler> Gremnon: yes, the logic train grf has setable speed by parameter
19:57:39  <Gremnon> hmm.... must experiment with this then
19:58:16  <Ammler> and very high acceleration ;-)
19:58:39  <Gremnon> I think my networks are about to get unrealistically quick...
19:58:58  <Gremnon> have to play a japanset game with it. Japanese are always coming up with better stuff than the rest of the world
19:59:03  <Gremnon> stands to reason they'd make it, 'natch
19:59:07  <Ammler> it isn't meant to carry cargo, just for our "logic gates" networks
19:59:12  <Gremnon> so?
19:59:29  <Gremnon> you made it, so I intend to quietly exploit it
19:59:31  <Gremnon> 'cause I can
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20:00:34  <Ammler> but my nfo coding skills do just know Action0, so no idea how to restrict it to no waggons and such...
20:00:57  <Gremnon> that's alright, even if you did, I'd use this version instead
20:01:14  <kratt> i know that 500 in hex are 1F4
20:01:18  <Gremnon> at least until the next time I stupidly overwrite my /home partition, anyway
20:01:46  <Ammler> kratt: don't convert self, simply use escape sequences like \w500
20:02:21  <Ammler> (also shown in the source) ;-)
20:02:24  <kratt> o
20:02:50  <kratt> but i need to compile it then
20:03:16  *** phalax [~phalax@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:03:29  <Alberth> you need to handle the 1.6 factor, it seems, by reading the source
20:04:02  <Ammler> Alberth: if you use miles
20:04:33  <Ammler> hmm.
20:04:35  <kratt> ou
20:04:37  <kratt> i know
20:04:49  <kratt> 312.5
20:04:57  <Alberth> oh. I have no intention of using miles :)
20:04:57  <Ammler> kratt: if you just like other speed, my grf already support that, you know?
20:05:31  <kratt> your grf has 99km/h
20:05:50  <Gremnon> if you give it the right parameter, that'd change though
20:06:07  <Ammler> yep, as default, but you can change that by parameter, should also be explained in the source, in the description and here in the past chat lines.
20:06:49  <planetmaker> lool, just loool
20:07:11  *** pavel1269 [] has quit [Quit: ^^]
20:07:28  <planetmaker> I want to drive this car. Which wires do I have to short in order to start the engine and unlock the steering-wheel lock?
20:07:44  <planetmaker> No, I don't want to use the key laying on the co-driver's seat
20:11:20  <kratt> okay
20:11:34  <kratt> i think i sucessfully changed name of the vehicle
20:11:41  <Ammler> :-)
20:11:41  <kratt> lets try it out
20:14:00  <kratt> do i need to pack it
20:14:02  <kratt> .tar
20:14:13  <Gremnon> no, just put the .grf into your data folder
20:16:12  <kratt> ouuu yes
20:16:16  <kratt> i did it
20:16:20  <kratt> success
20:19:52  <kratt> mhh
20:20:04  <kratt> when using compile not encode
20:20:20  <kratt> does it compile to .grf directly or .nfo
20:21:23  <Gremnon> I just realised I had a question to ask ages ago, and forgot about it
20:21:35  <Gremnon> that question is.... what's OpenTTD's status on BSD-based systems?
20:21:57  <frosch123> someone in this channel plays with freebsd, if you mean that
20:22:04  *** phalax [~phalax@] has joined #openttd
20:22:14  <Gremnon> alright, let me rephrase that
20:22:35  <Gremnon> for someone new to BSD, but not to Linux... is there really much difference in compiling it yourself?
20:22:43  <Rubidium> yes
20:22:48  <Gremnon> ah
20:22:55  <Rubidium> use gmake instead of make
20:23:06  <Gremnon> ... how is that different, besides the g
20:23:12  <kratt> anyways
20:23:18  <Rubidium> because just using make will cause it to fail horribly
20:23:19  <kratt> can you see my server
20:23:23  <kratt> UDU Battlegrounds
20:23:28  <kratt> i want to know
20:23:40  <Gremnon> hmm... I think I'm going to see if I figure out BSD then and try it
20:23:42  <Rubidium> can you see it on
20:24:27  <kratt> oo yes its up
20:24:38  <kratt> i have problems with 1 main line
20:25:01  <kratt> im pretty lowbob compared to openttdcoop they makin there
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20:26:35  <Alberth> almost everybody is, I think
20:26:52  <Alberth> you need a group of people to set something like their game up
20:28:43  <planetmaker> indeed. Alone it'd take me ages to get the stuff built to that scale over the whole map
20:29:38  <planetmaker> what is built on the server in one week, it'd take me a year or so
20:29:51  <planetmaker> but then... I nearly don't play single player.
20:30:22  <planetmaker> only for testing purposes ;-)
20:32:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18595 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Fix (r18277): one couldn't enter test via the keyboard in the company password window. Also replace a magic number with a enumified constant.
20:35:54  *** Grelouk [] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
20:40:10  <kratt> 1 dude joined my game
20:40:20  *** Terkhen [] has joined #openttd
20:40:29  <kratt> anyways
20:40:36  <kratt> can i change value of the train?
20:40:43  <kratt> or some multiplyer
20:42:14  <PeterT> What do you guys think of my wiki page?
20:46:35  *** lewymati [] has quit []
20:48:23  <Alberth> nested windows reference is not relevant imho
20:48:42  <PeterT> I think it is
20:48:49  <Alberth> also you didn't mention how to shade/unshade.
20:48:56  <PeterT> it's why I put it under Development
20:49:12  *** batti5 [~batti5@] has joined #openttd
20:49:37  <Alberth> answer: click at the shade button or use the mousewheel at the caption or shade box.
20:49:45  <Alberth> why is it relevant
20:49:46  <Alberth> ?
20:50:05  <PeterT> Delete it if you wish
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20:51:16  <batti5> Hi, can anybody give me a link to a ottd updater/downloader, i cant find one
20:51:35  <Alberth> intro screen, 'online content' button
20:51:45  <PeterT> batti5:
20:51:48  <Gremnon> hmm, I'm sure last time I checked the forum's search function would at least have found a result on that
20:52:18  <Alberth> no need to search yourself, we have PeterT now
20:52:41  <batti5> i tryed it, it gives a 404 error
20:52:57  <PeterT> What does?
20:53:00  <Gremnon> y'know, it could just be me, but people seem to be getting more reliant on other people using this magic thing called 'search' rather than doing it themselves...
20:53:27  <batti5> so does,
20:53:37  <PeterT> Works fine for me
20:53:49  <planetmaker> it comes and goes in waves. We have to turn ugly again, I guess. People assume we're their human google equivalent
20:54:15  <kratt> omg
20:54:24  <kratt> how to compile
20:54:31  <kratt> what file should it be
20:54:32  <batti5> can you give me a direct link ,exe or .zip?
20:54:41  <Prof_Frink> No.
20:54:49  <Gremnon> this is interesting. A search for 'OpenTTD updater' on the forums, asking for topics instead of posts, returns an EXACT match for what you're after
20:54:54  <kratt> cygwin
20:55:07  <Gremnon> result number 3, to be even more exact
20:55:17  <PeterT> kratt: Don't use cygwin
20:55:25  <Prof_Frink> jonty-comp: Lies.
20:55:46  <batti5> Internal Server Error, i get for tt-forum
20:56:03  <Gremnon> I think you need to do something about your internet
20:56:06  <Gremnon> it sounds broken
20:56:19  <Gremnon> because both it and OpenTTD's site work perfect for me
20:56:36  <batti5> but the web works fine
20:56:50  <Gremnon> apparantly not, if it works for us, but not you
20:56:55  <PeterT> Gremnon: Think again. I get the same 404 for attau's user page.
20:57:01  <PeterT> *ottdau
20:57:13  <Gremnon> nope, no 404 here
20:57:17  <andythenorth> are oil pipelines such a bad idea?
20:57:23  <Gremnon> yes
20:57:23  <PeterT> But tt-forums is working
20:57:35  <Gremnon> both work for me
20:57:52  <Gremnon> andythenorth: It would seem to me to defeat the idea of transporting it by vehicles, which is what the game is about
20:58:40  <kratt> PeterT what should i use then
20:58:51  <PeterT> MSYS && MinGW
20:58:54  <PeterT> or MSVC
20:59:12  <PeterT>
20:59:18  <PeterT>
21:01:32  <kratt> i got this
21:01:39  <kratt> how can i compile stuff like that
21:01:55  <Gremnon> grfcodec
21:02:00  <jonty-comp> Prof_Frink: truths
21:02:13  <andythenorth> Gremnon: I agree
21:02:16  <andythenorth> however...
21:02:32  <andythenorth> why is transporting oil so fricking *dull*.
21:02:44  <andythenorth> or is it just me that finds it that way?
21:02:59  <andythenorth> maybe it needs flashing lights and some music
21:03:35  <Gremnon> there's always your handy media player for that
21:03:50  <Prof_Frink> jonty-comp: TSMS is a *long* song.
21:03:53  <Gremnon> besides, if transporting oil is dull, doesn't that make pretty much everything else the same?
21:05:18  <andythenorth> somehow not.  for whatever bizarre reason, transporting coal and iron ore is kind of fun.  And I *really* like transporting wood
21:05:31  <andythenorth> perhaps it's because of the Ren and Stimpy log song.  But I doubt it
21:05:42  *** batti5 [~batti5@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:05:47  <andythenorth>
21:05:58  <Gremnon> well, I guess you're welcome to code it, but TBH, I don't see the point in piplines. You just lay down a pipeline, and it does the rest. No further intervention required
21:06:34  <Alberth> and if you bury the pipeline, there is even nothing to see
21:08:20  <PeterT> And if it's not buried, it's just annoying
21:08:36  <kratt> how the hell i compile that with grfcodec
21:08:54  <PeterT> Open a command line
21:08:55  <Gremnon> you could read the readme that comes with it. At least I think one comes with it
21:09:10  <PeterT> grfcodec.exe -c <grf_name>.grf
21:10:26  <planetmaker> of course it comes with a readme
21:10:36  <planetmaker> and if called w/o parameter it tells you
21:10:56  <Gremnon> eh, I usually compile it myself, and ignore it, so I don't remember these things
21:11:10  <Gremnon> besides, on Win, if you do that, it opens a prompt then closes it again
21:12:10  *** __teeone is now known as teeone
21:12:53  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r18596 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Fix: Add padding to several town generation buttons and labels for nice and consistent layout.
21:12:55  <PeterT> Sounds like kratt has all the correct files, he just wants us to push the buttons for him
21:13:29  <Gremnon> ... please don't word things that way again. Especially not with the word buttons.
21:13:48  *** andythenorth [~andy@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:14:09  <Alberth> sorry :)
21:14:38  <Gremnon> I think I need to scrub my brain, or at least my eyes
21:14:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r18597 /trunk/src/ (news_func.h news_gui.cpp statusbar_gui.cpp): -Fix (r17147)[FS#3395, FS#3396]: ChangeVehicleNews() did not update the news ticker.
21:15:01  <Prof_Frink> BUTTONS!
21:15:06  <Gremnon> ANYWAY
21:15:09  <Gremnon> Another question
21:15:30  <Gremnon> In TTD, even ticker-ified news could be cancelled with the spacebar. Why does OTTD not do this also?
21:15:43  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
21:15:47  <kratt> i cant do it PeterT nothing happens
21:16:00  <PeterT> kratt: Consult the readme
21:16:09  <PeterT> It should have been provided
21:16:15  *** KritiK [] has joined #openttd
21:16:18  <Gremnon> and don't listen to how much it asks you to pay for the consultation
21:16:53  <kratt> there is no readme
21:18:31  <PeterT> Umm...
21:18:33  <PeterT> you're right
21:18:41  <PeterT> open a cmd
21:18:51  <PeterT> and change your directory to where grfcodec.exe is
21:18:56  <Gremnon> you're being too technical PeterT. It's like this
21:19:00  <Gremnon> Click Start, then run
21:19:03  <Gremnon> then type CMD
21:19:30  <Gremnon> then use 'cd' to change to the folder grfcodec is in - for example cd C:\grfcodec
21:19:42  <Gremnon> then finally type grfcodec, and it will explain itself for you
21:19:56  <PeterT> no, type 'grfcodec.exe'
21:20:14  <Gremnon> eh, minor detail
21:20:22  <PeterT> Would it have worked without?
21:20:26  <Gremnon> no idea
21:20:29  <Gremnon> I think so though
21:20:37  *** Alberth [] has left #openttd []
21:20:44  <Gremnon> Windows is a bit less restrictive about things like that, IIRC
21:21:51  *** PeterT [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:21:59  <frosch123> hmm, why is a bug present for 4 months reported twice within 8 hours
21:22:09  <andythenorth> ok, so help me with root cause analysis....I think transporting oil is dull.  Why?
21:22:10  *** PeterT [] has joined #openttd
21:22:12  <andythenorth> I ask seriously I have to sort out the FIRS economy a bit
21:22:33  <Gremnon> I don't know... is it because you have oil rigs?
21:22:48  <Rubidium> frosch123: random events cluster
21:23:00  <andythenorth> is it because default oil wells have low production and close irritatingly?
21:23:05  <andythenorth> is it the graphics?
21:23:12  <andythenorth> is it just a boring industry chain?
21:23:22  <Gremnon> all of those three points can be changed, you know
21:23:48  <andythenorth> I do know :P
21:24:10  <Gremnon> so try changing bits of them until you're no longer bored with it
21:24:16  <andythenorth> he
21:24:17  <andythenorth> he
21:24:22  * frosch123 hardly transports oil when using default industries
21:24:29  <_ln> does someone know english here?  is it grammatical to say "comparing with an iterator is invalid"?  (can one use an adjective like that, without a noun?)
21:24:32  <andythenorth> ah, evidence...why not? :)
21:25:02  <andythenorth> (that was at frosch123 no _ln !)
21:25:05  <andythenorth> not /s
21:25:08  <frosch123> wells stay for tens of years on the map unless i connect them, and oilrigs produce too few for ships
21:25:12  <PeterT> does someone know english here? <-- me speeke tha english good!
21:25:46  <andythenorth> frosch123: would a small number of high production sources of oil be more fun?
21:26:04  <andythenorth> in rl, oil is barely transported by train or truck, almost entirely by pipe and ship
21:26:05  <frosch123> it would allow ship usage :)
21:26:49  <andythenorth> how about scrapping oil wells, and just having refineries produce though supplied by pipe?
21:26:55  <andythenorth> but keeping oil rigs
21:27:08  <Gremnon> if by newgrf, then I wouldn't mind that
21:27:12  <Gremnon> I wouldn't use it though
21:27:33  <andythenorth> Gremnon: all of this is in the context of the FIRS set.
21:27:39  <frosch123> andythenorth: as you advance over time in firs, maybe you could split the usage. in the early days there is only some oil on land, which is used as production booster, later there are masses on water, which are needed in masses at refineries
21:28:05  <andythenorth> frosch123: seems like a plan
21:29:00  <andythenorth> some crude oil moves by rail it seems:
21:30:09  <andythenorth>
21:33:00  <kratt> can GRF wizard change values of train speed, power, date
21:33:48  <kratt> i know how to decode, encode
21:34:04  <Gremnon> GRF wizard is just a graphic frontend to grfcodec
21:34:05  <kratt> i want to edit that .nfo so that it will work
21:34:08  <kratt> ok
21:34:12  <kratt> so it wont work
21:34:26  <kratt> how i can make new .nfo
21:34:30  <Gremnon> it will decode or encode .grfs for you using a graphic program
21:34:36  <Gremnon> but you'll still have to edit the nfo yourself
21:34:39  <kratt> okay
21:34:46  <kratt> so how do i edit .nfo
21:34:49  <kratt> and what to write inside
21:34:59  <Gremnon> I do believe you've ben refferred the TTDPatch Wiki's pages on it several times now
21:35:35  <andythenorth>
21:37:13  <kratt> now i got what i wanted
21:37:40  <kratt> 1 guy saves the day after 3 hours of falling from 5th floor
21:38:45  <andythenorth> I learnt the basics from Pikka Wiki.
21:39:12  <andythenorth> now I have written at least a few lines of nfo
21:39:15  *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:39:17  <andythenorth> so it can't be too hard
21:39:27  <Gremnon> I learned from TTDPatch wiki
21:39:42  <Gremnon> I still get lost easily in code, but keeping it to hand helps a lot
21:39:54  <Gremnon> I just have to remember to run NFORenum before trying to encode again
21:40:25  <andythenorth> bye!
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22:18:28  <kratt> gremnon
22:18:35  <Gremnon> yup?
22:18:38  <kratt> how to use renum
22:18:43  <kratt> what command to use
22:18:49  <Gremnon> same way you do grfcodec, pretty much
22:19:05  <Gremnon> except it has to be done in the command line, there's no graphic way that I know of
22:20:35  <kratt> can you tell me the exact line i need to write
22:20:53  <Gremnon> 'nforenum namehere.nfo'
22:20:55  <Gremnon> that's it
22:21:00  <kratt> k
22:21:15  <Gremnon> if all else fails, ask in the nforenum thread
22:21:19  <Zuu> didn't nforenum --help tell you?
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22:21:46  <kratt> oh
22:21:47  <Gremnon> oh, btw Zuu - your Autoupdate site seems to be giving an error
22:21:50  <kratt> it need cygwin
22:21:54  <Gremnon>
22:21:56  <Gremnon> now
22:21:57  <Gremnon> now
22:21:58  <Gremnon> argh
22:22:00  <Gremnon> no
22:22:05  <Gremnon> it just needs a command prompt
22:22:08  <Gremnon> like the windows Cmd
22:22:16  <kratt> it tells me cygwin.dll is missing
22:22:26  <Gremnon> ... wierd
22:22:27  <Zuu> Gremnon: Works fine from here.
22:22:37  <Zuu> Even after forcing reload.
22:23:08  <Gremnon> hmm, give me a moment, I'll check again
22:23:21  <Zuu> You did use ?
22:23:34  <Gremnon> yep.... and oddly it's now working again
22:23:41  <Gremnon> that's strange, it wasn't earlier... a 500 and a 404
22:23:48  <Sacro> eww
22:23:52  <Sacro> why would it need cygwin?
22:23:59  <Zuu> Could be something with
22:24:02  <kratt> i dont know
22:24:09  <kratt> i can send pic if u want
22:24:21  <kratt> it wants cygwin1.dll
22:24:27  <Gremnon> kratt, have a look on the tt-forums thread for NFOrenum, and see if you can find the latest Windows one
22:24:46  <planetmaker> use
22:24:50  <planetmaker> and -grfcodec
22:25:14  <planetmaker> those are nightlies and very much recommended
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22:26:34  <glx> and don't require cygwin dll
22:26:42  <kratt> yes
22:26:44  <kratt> i got it
22:26:44  <kratt> but
22:26:45  <kratt> lol
22:26:57  <kratt> Error on sprite 1.
22:27:00  <kratt> Error on sprite 9.
22:27:07  <kratt> Created .renum directory in C:\Documents and Settings\Mina.
22:27:07  <Zuu> Hmm, since they are on, would it be usefull to have grfcodec, nforenum on OpenTTDAU?
22:27:14  <kratt> The sprite following sprite 11 could not be processed.
22:27:20  <kratt> Error on sprite 9.
22:27:26  <kratt> Processing complete.
22:27:32  <kratt> what does that mean
22:27:34  <glx> means you have errors in your nfo
22:27:35  <Zuu> You would have to add both install directories to PATH then.
22:27:47  <kratt> OMFG
22:27:54  <kratt> how can i have errors
22:28:03  <kratt> i took example from ttdwiki
22:28:09  <Gremnon> well, if you edit the NFO, and it doesn't like it, you'll get errors
22:28:18  <DaleStan> Copy/paste error, most likely.
22:28:19  <Gremnon> NFORenum is designed to catch them
22:28:26  <kratt> but i dont know what i need to edit there
22:28:43  <Gremnon> it does help to know what to edit where first
22:29:02  <DaleStan> It also helps to look at the error messages that are now in the NFO.
22:29:26  <kratt> Escapes: 2+ = 71 = D= = DR 2- = 70 = D+ = DF 2< = 7= = D- = DC 2> = 7! = Du* = DM 2u< = 7< = D* = DnF 2u> = 7> = Du<< = DnC 2/ = 7G = D<< = DO 2% = 7g = D& 2u/ = 7gG = D| 2u% = 7GG = Du/ 2* = 7gg = D/ 2& = 7c = Du% 2| = 7C = D% 2^ 2sto = 2s 2rst = 2r 2+ 2ror = 2rot
22:29:31  <kratt> pretty useful
22:29:50  <DaleStan> That aint an error message.
22:30:21  <kratt> mhh
22:30:27  <kratt> i cant paste here nomore
22:30:29  <kratt> i dont know why
22:30:50  <Gremnon> isn't there where you can put things like, oh, the contents of the nfo now that NFOrenum has run through it
22:30:55  <Gremnon> so we can see the whole lot?
22:31:06  <Gremnon> I believe that's the correct link, and all
22:31:30  <kratt>
22:32:30  <kratt> i got that .pcx ammler send me
22:32:43  <kratt> and just renamed that logic.pcx
22:33:09  <kratt>
22:33:15  <kratt> i looked what i edit from here
22:33:17  <kratt> almost
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22:37:41  <DaleStan> <kratt> <-- I suggest you start with the first line containing the word "Error". According to the documentation:
22:37:41  <DaleStan> 51: "<type> unexpected here." (Error)
22:37:41  <DaleStan> There was no reason to expect a <type> sprite here; the immediately
22:37:41  <DaleStan> preceeding sprite was not an Action 1/5/A/11/12.
22:37:41  <DaleStan> Remove the sprite, or add an action 1/5/A/11/12.
22:37:43  <DaleStan> Note that "* 1 00" is interpreted as a real sprite in action 1 blocks and
22:37:45  <DaleStan> most action 5 blocks.
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22:39:20  <kratt> okay what did you just say?
22:39:42  <kratt> how to fix it
22:39:43  <Sacro>
22:41:23  <Prof_Frink> It makes no indication of how far in fron observer A is. Could be several miles down the track and step out of the way.
22:43:47  <DaleStan> I just said you need an action 1, 5, A, 11, or 12 between sprite 0 and sprite 1. Most likely an action 1, but there are cases where that would be incorrect.
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22:47:40  <kratt> im looking the example in wiki
22:47:56  <kratt> there is action1 already there
22:48:05  <DaleStan> But there isn't one in your NFO.
22:48:21  <DaleStan> Which is where it matters.
22:48:23  <kratt> 1 SPRITES\logic.pcx 0 0 01 24 8 -3 -12
22:48:31  <kratt> this is action1
22:48:36  <kratt> defining the sprite
22:49:00  <DaleStan> No, that's sprite 1.
22:49:09  <kratt> wtf
22:49:13  <kratt> where is action1 then
22:49:20  <kratt>
22:49:24  <kratt> im lookin there
22:49:35  <DaleStan> Nohere. Which is the problem.
22:50:12  <DaleStan> In the example, it's the line containing an asterisk.
22:50:21  <Ammler> he, why do you have real sprites?
22:50:38  <kratt> what  u mean
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22:50:55  <kratt> i use your logic.pcx
22:51:01  <Ammler> my?
22:51:03  <kratt> yes
22:51:05  <DaleStan> I have no logic.pcx.
22:51:13  <DaleStan> Ergo it isn't mine.
22:51:19  <Ammler> mine doesn't have real spries
22:51:26  <kratt> so what do you have?
22:51:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> <planetmaker> for the 2009th time? <-- your calculation is off... the "nailing to a piece of wood" was the death, on christmas, the birth is celebrated, which was like 30 years earlier and the base of the year number. [besides the monk that did the calculation of jesus' birth was off by a few years as well]
22:52:30  <DaleStan> A broken crystal ball, among other things. But that's irrelevant. As is (at this point) the contents of *your* logic.pcx. It doesn't even need to *exist* yet.
22:52:58  <kratt> o
22:53:26  <kratt> so when .pcx is made
22:54:05  <DaleStan> Before you invoke grfcodec.
22:55:12  <kratt>
22:55:15  <DaleStan> NFORenum doesn't care about the PCX, so it's irrelevant to any error messages that NFORenum in generating.
22:55:21  <kratt> this is what works and is from decode
22:56:30  <DaleStan> If that's Ammler's, then you're editing it incorrectly. ADD A BLOODY ACTION1. LIKE I ALREADY TOLD YOU.
22:57:09  <Terkhen> good night
22:57:10  <DaleStan> And why did you remove the action 6, 8, and D?
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22:57:45  <kratt> i did not remove it
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22:58:39  <Ammler> or simply use my source, edit it and encode
22:59:15  <kratt> yeh i try that that now
22:59:25  <kratt> but can i use that \w100 thing also there
22:59:26  <DaleStan> Well, they somehow vanished from your version, and NFORenum isn't in the habit of removing sprites, so that leaves you and the gremlins.
22:59:29  <Ammler> please do also change the GRFID...
23:00:09  <kratt> and btw why is your makegrf thing so weird
23:00:09  <Ammler> kratt: we told you around 10 times, you can change the speed by parameter, no need to edit the nfo.
23:00:09  <Gremnon> if you're trying to change the speed... I can't help but think that it's a lot simpler to find out what parameter to supply to the grf in the ingame grf list
23:00:18  <Gremnon> eh, Ammler beat me to it
23:00:35  <kratt> what parameter
23:00:50  <kratt> or where i can edit that
23:00:56  <Gremnon> you know when you open the newgrf list, there's that button at the bottom labelled 'Set Parameters'
23:00:57  <Gremnon> there
23:01:00  <Gremnon> that's where you do it
23:01:02  <Ammler> @man parameter
23:01:06  <kratt> o
23:01:13  <kratt> you should say that 4 hours ago
23:01:18  <Gremnon> .... it's in plain sight
23:01:24  <kratt> indeed
23:01:27  <kratt> ill try that
23:01:30  <Gremnon> I assumed you'd noticed it already...
23:02:25  <Ammler>
23:03:49  <kratt> atleast i got smarter a bit
23:05:28  <kratt> and how many parameters there are
23:05:45  <Gremnon> for the logic train, 1, obviously
23:05:56  <Gremnon> other GRF's may have more, and their readme's should be consulted then
23:08:30  <kratt> so i write 1 200 if i want 200 speed?
23:08:37  <kratt> 1 parameter and value 200
23:09:00  <Gremnon> I think there's some internal math involved actually, Ammler might know exactly how it works
23:09:06  <Gremnon> experimentation is also a good way to find out
23:09:16  <kratt> 01:01
23:09:20  <kratt> @man parameter
23:09:25  <kratt> is that command?
23:09:41  <Gremnon> no, I wouldn't worry about that one
23:11:01  <kratt> i dont know the command
23:11:14  <kratt> to set parameter 1 to 0 and parameter 2 to 3, you will type "0 3"
23:11:42  <Gremnon> yep, that's right
23:11:51  <kratt> so what does that mean
23:12:06  <Gremnon> that means you put 0 3 in the box that appears when you clicked on Set Parameters
23:12:11  <Gremnon> and then hit enter, and it's done
23:12:30  <kratt> lol
23:12:33  <kratt> it worked
23:12:40  <kratt> but it is so damn fast
23:12:42  <kratt> even too fast
23:12:50  <Gremnon> well, experiment to find the right speed then
23:12:57  <Zuu> That you get when you asked for too much :-)
23:14:50  <kratt> like speed is like 10 000 km/h
23:14:53  <kratt> in 1 sec
23:14:57  <kratt> like a shuttle
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23:15:15  <Gremnon> like I said, there's some internal math involved, so you'll have to experiment to find a better speed
23:16:47  <Zuu> Well, IRL 500 km/h is 139 m/s which is dam fast.
23:17:45  <kratt> ahh enought
23:17:52  <kratt> time to visit pillow
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23:18:03  <Zuu> Indeed :-)
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