Log for #openttd on 23rd December 2009:
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00:29:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... something's not right
00:29:43  <_ln> true
00:30:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> ah... forgot setting the display variable in crontab...
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01:16:54  <welshdragon> 24 hours left to vote in the 2009 Unofficial TT-Forums Awards!
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02:45:43  <PeterT> Do you guys like the completely re-done MSVC Page?
02:47:54  <terinjokes> AHHH! WHY?
02:48:08  <PeterT> Better info
02:48:17  <PeterT> Tutorials on using SVN and such
02:48:20  <PeterT> and make bundle
02:48:38  <terinjokes> PeterT: why MSVC?
02:48:47  <PeterT> What do you mean 'why'?
02:48:54  <PeterT> Because MSVC is a great compiler?
02:49:44  <terinjokes> ah!
02:50:01  * terinjokes hides behind a wall of abstraction
02:51:00  <PeterT> It's soooo much better than GCC
02:51:06  <PeterT> and to know that you must actually test both
02:51:19  <terinjokes> PeterT: i'll agree with that statemnt
02:51:37  <PeterT> Do you use Linux or some other OS than windows?
02:51:51  <terinjokes> PeterT: *but* I still stand behind the GCC because of what it stands for
02:52:00  <PeterT> What does it stand for, exactly?
02:52:09  <terinjokes> PeterT: I'm using Win7 Ultimate as we speak
02:52:21  <PeterT> terinjokes: Ah
02:52:26  <terinjokes> "GNU C Compiler" probably
02:52:35  <terinjokes> ;)
02:52:43  <PeterT> Oh, I thought you meant it differently
02:52:48  * PeterT neverminds
02:52:49  <terinjokes> i did
02:54:10  <Eddi|zuHause> i should make my own c compiler somewhen
02:54:18  <PeterT> I'd use it...
02:54:39  <terinjokes> i code for triple-OS support in the native windowing environment with C on linux... one can tell mingw (aka gcc) isn't really optimized for Windows (or, I have setting wrong, creating large binaries, or likely, both)
03:05:24  <terinjokes> (that's actually why I'm here)
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04:52:47  <terinjokes> Eddi|zuHause: you should write it in brainfuck inturpeted in Java (i know my spelling sucks...)
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06:14:49  <rhaeder> Error: Failed to find a music set. Please acquire a music set for OpenTTD. See section 4.1 of readme.txt.
06:14:58  <rhaeder> It always worked without music :(
06:15:03  <rhaeder> I cannot disable this
06:15:08  <rhaeder> morning all ;)
06:28:45  <Rubidium> how did you compile/install that?
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06:50:34  <rhaeder> hi. sorry, was writing a shell script for ease download of nightlies :)
06:51:04  <rhaeder> ./configure --with-zlib --with-png --with-freetype --with-fontconfig --with-iconv --with-makedepend --enable-debug=3 --prefix-dir=/opt/
06:51:18  <rhaeder> or are these --with-foo not required to set?
06:53:03  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18609 /trunk/ -Fix (r18608): installing of obm files didn't quite happen
06:53:20  <Rubidium> I'd leave out with-makedepend because makedepend is known to bork on OpenTTD
06:53:35  <rhaeder> ok
06:53:49  <Rubidium> you must keep --with-iconv (if you really want to use it), because that's not automatically selected
06:54:02  <Rubidium> and the other --withs should be automatically detected
06:54:34  <rhaeder> ./configure --enable-debug=3 --prefix-dir=/opt/ should be enougth for max debug build to /opt/
06:54:40  <Rubidium> if you did use make install with r18608 then music would probably be broken
06:54:58  <rhaeder> in /opt/ I have write permission (gave myself) so I don't need $ su -c "make install" ;)
06:55:19  <Rubidium> rhaeder: yes, as long as you don't need iconv (which I've only seen needed by gentoo and OSX)
06:55:42  <rhaeder> what is that for? translation?
06:56:14  <Rubidium> file name conversion from different... uhm... ways of encoding special characters
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06:58:04  <rhaeder> ah, I recall :)
06:58:23  <rhaeder> like UTF-8<->ISO<->WINDOWS-1252 for example
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07:00:41  <rhaeder> works again :D
07:00:43  <rhaeder> thx
07:04:38  <rhaeder> downloader is finished:
07:04:40  <rhaeder> :)
07:15:39  <rhaeder> ok, see you later
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08:51:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18610 /trunk/src/music.cpp: -Codechange: don't consider a music set at all for 'best' set when it's missing files
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09:09:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18611 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Fix (r18608): uppercase-to-lowercase conversion when opening a file wasn't applied when finding the full path of a file
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10:12:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r18612 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3407]: Buy vehicle window did not properly disable panel drawing while shaded.
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11:22:58  <orava> hi. my server is saying "Client #86 is slow, try increasing *net_frame_freq to a higher value!" where I can increase this? can't find it in openttd.cfg
11:24:23  <Alberth> perhaps in the console?
11:24:45  <orava> isint there any file where I can do it?
11:25:01  <orava> oh, yeah, ofccourse : )
11:25:02  <Alberth> no idea
11:25:33  <orava> so how I can see which value is it now and how much I must increase it?
11:26:19  <Alberth> start with 'help'
11:27:12  <Alberth> I never use the console, I am not even sure the variable is there, but it is about the only other place where it can be
11:27:52  <Eddi|zuHause> it probably got renamed, but the console will know the old and the new name
11:28:16  <orava> there is net_frame_freg and default was 1, so I increased it to 10
11:28:40  <orava> have no idea what it mean but hopefully it helps : P
11:32:02  <SpComb^> 10 sounds a bit high
11:32:22  <orava> it's like "joining timeout"? : P
11:33:15  <Eddi|zuHause> no, it's like "process player commands only every X ticks" [so high values make the game less responsive]
11:33:37  <Eddi|zuHause> only increase it in steps of 1
11:34:46  <orava> and secondly, I want to increase max loan higher than ingame settings allow, so can I just increase it from openttd.cfg or do I have to use "diff custom's" ?
11:35:11  <Eddi|zuHause> that's not possible
11:35:58  <Eddi|zuHause> the same limits are enforced from the gui and the config
11:36:26  <Eddi|zuHause> so setting higher values will be ignored
11:38:21  <orava> oh, thought it was possible : /
11:41:06  <orava> does those console variables reset when restart a game or are they written to file?
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11:49:36  <SpComb^> orava: some are saved in the savegame, others are loaded from openttd.cfg
11:49:42  <SpComb^> you can write it out with saveconfig
11:50:35  <orava> SpComb^: ok
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12:50:44  <planetmaker> my understanding that there's only one joint pool for stations and waypoints is correct, or?
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12:51:13  <Eddi|zuHause> after the latest "make everything the same" spree, i presume yes
12:51:54  <Eddi|zuHause> but you don't need to correct every single of HIS rants :p
12:53:25  <planetmaker> :-P
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12:56:59  <peter1138> ?
12:57:41  <planetmaker> mr vapourware rants and talks w/o getting straight  the facts.
12:58:14  <planetmaker> and of course TTDP's concepts are far more advanced and thought through :-P
12:58:58  <peter1138> well he only posts on the german forum now doesn't he?
12:59:27  <planetmaker> yes. There (most) people don't contradict him and he's the king
12:59:48  <planetmaker> there he gets the awe he obviously thinks he deserves
13:01:33  <planetmaker> mostly as there are only uwe, eddi, frosch, addi and myself (did I forget anyone?) who know a bit more about the internals.
13:01:44  <planetmaker> well. 4mmler
13:04:48  <planetmaker> many others still think that the miniIN is better than current nightlies :-P That speaks for itself :-P
13:05:27  <SmatZ> for people who can't live without diagonal level crossings, miniIN is better than trunk ;)
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13:06:05  <peter1138> many people (in the UK) read the daily mail...
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13:37:45  <Belugas> hello
13:48:36  <Zuu> planetmaker: on some of the smaller non-official forums you can always find interesting opinions on how and why things work. :-)
13:48:43  <Zuu> Hello Belugas
13:48:57  <Zuu> At work just before Christmas?
13:49:23  <Belugas> you bet i am :(
13:49:59  <Zuu> I guess you at least have a lot of space at the office. :-)
13:50:55  <peter1138>
13:52:01  <Belugas> nope, Zuu
13:52:12  <Belugas> everyone is there, apart one guy
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13:52:53  <Eddi|zuHause> you poor people...
13:53:19  <Belugas> peter1138. that's almost a dream machine :)
13:53:53  <Zuu> Oh, I visited the company I'll make my thesis at yesterday and it was not a lot of people there. Especially the systems department only had a few people there. :-)
13:54:03  <pavel1269> I think "reason" is better :-)
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13:58:30  <Belugas> note that i have a boss at home too.  JUst that.. i dno't know which wok i like best...  home work or work work...
13:59:02  <peter1138> music work
13:59:27  <Belugas> oh yeah !
14:00:57  <Belugas>
14:00:59  <Belugas> miam
14:01:10  <Belugas> but ooochy pricey
14:09:15  <peter1138> ooh
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14:15:40  <Belugas> i guess the other way around is to turn to asio digital processing...
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14:39:04  <Ammler> if I build openttd locally, it doesn't scan /usr/share/.../data, is that intended ?
14:41:42  <Ammler> ok, solved, forgot about local (/usr/local/...)
14:42:53  <peter1138> Belugas, cheaper, but less satisfaction
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14:43:06  <peter1138> Belugas, and you have to fuck around with a mouse instead of fiddling with knobs
14:44:08  <Belugas> mmmh...
14:44:10  <Belugas> right
14:47:27  <Belugas> well.. knobs.. on the floor... not too easy either ;)
14:48:11  * Belugas has to practice a bit more knobs manipulation with feet
14:52:43  <Eddi|zuHause> is it an undo knob? :p
14:53:36  <Belugas> lol
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14:56:06  <Belugas> good joke, Eddi|zuHause, very good onoe :D
14:56:31  <kratt> how to make crossover to main lines
14:56:36  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it occasionally could come in handy with music :p
14:57:21  <Belugas> yeah.. i wish i had one from time to time...
14:57:25  <kratt> i have double 2 line mainway
14:57:47  <Eddi|zuHause> kratt: you might want to look at the ottdcoop wiki
15:01:10  <kratt> there is too massive crossovers
15:01:15  <kratt> i want littlebit smaller
15:01:36  <SirSquidness> Is there any practical/easy way to get a 'slow' signal state, where if the signal ahead is red, the first signal will slow the train to n% speed?
15:01:48  <Eddi|zuHause> they also have ones for branch lines
15:02:21  <Eddi|zuHause> SirSquidness: there are a few unfinished attempts and very old ones
15:02:32  <SirSquidness> Eddi|zuHause: anything worth bothing with?
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15:04:27  <Eddi|zuHause> SirSquidness: i'd try
15:04:42  <Eddi|zuHause> there "advance signals v2" and the "slowdown hack"
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15:10:30  <SirSquidness> I'm going to assume I have to compile advanecd_signals_v2.patch and advance_slowdown_hack.diff, which I have no idea how to do
15:11:02  <SirSquidness> and since it's 2:10AM, I'll put it in the too hard basket and come back another day
15:11:05  <SirSquidness> but thanks anyawy =)
15:13:19  <Eddi|zuHause> SirSquidness: it's loosely based on this suggestion
15:15:34  <SirSquidness> That's pretty much exactly the thing I'm thinking of
15:15:51  <SirSquidness> except instead of having a pre signal and the signal itself, just every signal does presignalling and signalling
15:16:53  <Eddi|zuHause> it has some flaws, like having two trains follow each other in close distance...
15:16:55  <kratt> can somebody join my game i made and help me with my issue?
15:17:25  <SirSquidness> true, Eddi|zuHause , but if you have a mainline with a slower train leading a faster train, that faster train is going to be stopping every few signals slowing everything behind it down again
15:17:25  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i have bad news:
15:17:38  <SirSquidness> kratt: I can, depending on what version you're running
15:17:49  <kratt> 0.74
15:17:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i know the problem, SirSquidness
15:17:57  <SirSquidness> Eddi|zuHause: dammit, I just spent 0 on christmas crap today.
15:18:56  <kratt> sirsquidness game name is UDU Battlegrounds
15:18:59  <kratt> and you should see it
15:19:00  <SirSquidness> is the snapshot from two or three nights ago backwards compatible with 0.74?
15:19:23  <Eddi|zuHause> SirSquidness: not multiplayer-compatible
15:19:40  <SirSquidness> didn't think so
15:19:42  <SirSquidness> I can't help then
15:19:51  <SirSquidness> well, not as suited to help than other
15:19:52  <SirSquidness> s
15:20:09  <SirSquidness> oh wait.. I have the zip of 0.74. I can help after all.
15:20:44  <kratt> i thought you had 0.7.4 and the nighty both
15:22:50  <SirSquidness> kratt: I'm in
15:24:40  <kratt> k
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15:49:14  <pavel1269> Q: why does trains reverse even with wait_oneway_signal = 255, i must also set to 255 wait_for_pbs_path?
15:50:40  <Ammler> yep, disable all
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15:55:53  <kratt> mh
15:56:29  <kratt> join UDU Battlegrounds
16:00:47  <AC6000> :P
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16:03:16  <pavel1269> nice :-)
16:03:49  <planetmaker> those folks who use OpenGFX might want to consider updating to 0.2.1 :-)
16:07:31  <Zuu> pm: sure
16:08:10  <peter1138> did you fix the text ;)
16:08:52  <planetmaker> this time I think I did :-)
16:09:09  <planetmaker> I updated my release procedures... and they should be less error-prone now
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16:12:09  <peter1138> yup
16:12:13  <peter1138> "OpenGFX 0.2.1"
16:13:38  <planetmaker> :-) Uff
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17:34:16  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18613 /trunk/src/crashlog.cpp: -Codechange: add the music set to the crashlog too
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17:59:46  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r18614 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix [FS#3412](r18602): too many signs were drawn, causing slowdowns
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18:43:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18615 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix: conditional orders were seen as 'valid' and as such aircraft with only conditional orders did not crash
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18:45:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18616 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3413]: crash when the current order is a conditional order when a plane is checking whether it needs servicing
18:45:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r18617 /trunk/src/lang/ (13 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:45:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 21 changes by arnau
18:45:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
18:45:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 6 changes by habell
18:45:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: finnish - 6 changes by jpx_
18:45:59  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 6 changes by glx
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19:19:40  <planetmaker> damn. there have been untranslated strings :-(
19:20:44  <planetmaker> and there have been many changes by an anonymous croation native speaker :-P
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19:45:24  <Belugas> space
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19:45:29  <Belugas> his nsame is space
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19:56:16  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18618 /branches/0.7/ (7 files in 5 dirs): [0.7] -Update: documentation for 0.7.5
20:01:25  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18619 /tags/0.7.5/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Release: 0.7.5
20:06:07  <kratt> what is a traction or something like hat
20:06:10  <kratt> for train
20:06:14  <kratt> KN
20:08:08  <SpComb^> boo
20:08:10  <Belugas> wooof wooof
20:08:41  <SpComb^> crash when removing a waypoint, although perhaps its just r18495
20:09:27  <kratt> and what are those new signals
20:09:42  <kratt> <-> and its red
20:09:56  <PeterT> Wiki done:
20:10:36  <Rubidium> 18495 or 18495M?
20:10:49  <SpComb^> 18495M
20:11:11  <SpComb^> more specifically, segfault when viewing what used to be the waypoint :P
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20:16:33  <PeterT> Warning when compiling 0.7.5:
20:22:03  <SmatZ> PeterT: known, not our fault
20:22:15  <PeterT> Whos fault?
20:22:19  <SmatZ> gcc's fault
20:22:21  <PeterT> Ah
20:22:24  <SmatZ> and not the only one :-p
20:22:33  <PeterT> Is there something other than GCC on Linux Ubuntu?
20:22:38  <SmatZ> icc
20:23:03  <SmatZ> and several other compilers :-p
20:23:30  <Rubidium> just read the code it warns on
20:24:12  <SmatZ> llvm-c, tcc, tendra, watcom...
20:25:57  <PeterT> SmatZ: What do you use?
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20:28:33  <SmatZ> PeterT: mostly gcc 4.3, but sometimes I test compilation with gcc 4.5 and icc 11
20:29:12  <PeterT> Ah
20:29:29  <PeterT> When do binaries get on the site after a stable release?
20:30:11  <glx> same delay as nightlies (once CF triggered)
20:30:28  <PeterT> Ah
20:30:41  <PeterT> That will be tommorow, no?
20:31:12  <Rubidium> ~5 minutes after the OSX compile has finished
20:31:37  <PeterT> Hm
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20:34:02  <PeterT> <-- Hm, so there will be an 0.10?
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20:44:42  <planetmaker> There'll be a 0.A
20:45:09  <planetmaker> A EUR |N
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20:56:21  <SpComb^> now I have a waypoint I can't remove until I patch in the crash-fix :(
21:00:46  <planetmaker> uh?
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21:31:11  <Zuu> planetmaker: 0.A will probably cause problem with the regex schemas in OpenTTDAU.
21:32:23  <Zuu> Though, it would not be impossible to support such versions when it is time for that.
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21:42:41  <Tulitomaatti> i tried searching around but failed to find it; how can i increase the tolerance for clients not responding (due a slow, wireless connection)? (I get the client getting dropped by the server because it did not respond for 4 game days)
21:43:26  <Tulitomaatti> -> is there some openttd.cfg variable i missed or can this be set from the server console?
21:45:11  <Rubidium> 4 game days = 10 seconds, which basically means the client is lagging at least 10 seconds
21:46:28  <Rubidium> and those 4 game days are hardcoded in the source
21:46:44  <Tulitomaatti> ouch :<
21:47:07  <Tulitomaatti> i guess i just have to wait for a christmas eve some year when i get 3G coverance to this area
21:47:33  <Rubidium> and if the game lags 4 game days it means that if you click to build something on a client it takes 10 seconds before it is actually build
21:47:46  <Rubidium> which I reckon means it's not playable anymore
21:48:03  <Zuu> 3G is still quite long latence times compared to wired internet.
21:48:37  <Tulitomaatti> but way faster than gprs or edge. ircing is still tolerable but i guess the latency jumps when ottd starts syncing in and out
21:49:22  <Zuu> well, speed is probably not the main problem as soon as the boot strap is over and you have joined a game.
21:52:52  <Tulitomaatti> might be. the best i've got is that i have time to build 1 station or so before it drops the client
21:55:27  <Zuu> As far as I know the speed improvement in 3G is basically that you have more symbols per time unit. Eg. you can transmitt more bits per symbol, but each symbol take the same time to transmitt. Of course in a long package that means that the end of the package will reach the reciever faster, but it doesn't affect the latence times really.
21:56:34  <Zuu> Another improvement in 3G is that it can handle handovers without disconnecting the transmission/call etc. in the handover process. So if you play on the train etc. then you would benefit from that.
21:56:54  <Zuu> (handover = connect to another base station)
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21:58:43  <Rubidium> oh, that reminds me: the 100 Mbps connection to the moon can't be used to play OpenTTD
21:59:25  <Rubidium> (oh, sorry... 100 MBps)
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21:59:34  <Tulitomaatti> poor astronauts
21:59:59  <SmatZ> there goes the hope of Earth-Mars multiplayer :(
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22:06:29  <Tulitomaatti> they'll invent something.
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22:07:00  <Tulitomaatti> light speed communication could be tolerable in an earth-mars civilization game :_D or other turn-based things.
22:07:20  <SmatZ> hehe
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22:10:19  <Belugas> night all
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22:10:28  <Belugas> time to dream about some new toys...
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22:21:34  <DaleStan> peter1138, Belugas, Rubidium: Did any of you authorize Geo.'s recent edits to the TTDPatch wiki, or have any of you seen anything about them on the forums? (Daylength-related NewGRF changes) I'm kinda curious which developer has promised him that. Or, possibly, if he put it there because he wants it and he thinks that will get "someone" to implement his wishes.
22:21:34  <DaleStan> I'm rather tempted to revert them with a comment to the effect of "No TTDPatch or OpenTTD developer is working or has ever worked on this." but I *really* don't want to do that and then be proven wrong.
22:23:13  <peter1138> not me
22:24:02  <peter1138> seems a bloody stupid place to put it anyway
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22:25:01  <peter1138> ah, and var 26
22:25:09  <Rubidium> george wants support for $random daylength implementation and seems to be happy with a variable that has absolutely no defined meaning
22:25:58  <Rubidium> he wanted to reserve some number so 'all' patches could give their $random value there
22:26:13  <Rubidium> ofcourse that's going to cause a mess, but apparantly he doesn't quite care
22:27:39  <Rubidium> and lots of people pitched in and gave their comments on it not being future proof
22:29:38  <Rubidium> anyhow, there is no OpenTTD developer with the intention to add the variable to OpenTTD's NewGRF code
22:34:14  <Terkhen> good night
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22:41:59  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18620 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix: possible deadlock with SDL and changing the resolution in-game
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23:00:35  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18621 /trunk/os/windows/installer/install.nsi: -Fix: [Windows] obm files didn't get deleted by the installer; update download size of OpenSFX.
23:09:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18622 /trunk/ (14 files in 10 dirs): -Merge: release changes
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23:15:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18623 /tags/1.0.0-beta1/ (6 files in 5 dirs): -Release: 1.0.0-beta1; Merry Christmas! Many thans to everyone who has made this possible.
23:16:36  <planetmaker> Congratz to all who made it possible! And have a merry Christmas :-) and good night
23:24:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18624 /extra/website/frontpage/templates/frontpage/download.html: [Website] -Change: mention OpenGFX/OpenSFX on the download page
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23:33:56  <Eddi|zuHause> finally this damn discussion is over ;)
23:35:01  <PeterT> 0.1.0-beta 1!!!
23:35:25  <PeterT> *1.0.0
23:40:42  <SpComb^> you're joking :o
23:40:48  <SpComb^> I hope it's got cargodist i nit!
23:40:48  <PeterT> Nope
23:41:05  <glx> it's a promoted nightly ;)
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23:41:32  <PeterT> :-D
23:42:06  <SpComb^> huh
23:43:02  <PeterT> It's just a nightly that's called a release
23:43:13  <SpComb^> well, I've wanted to ask George about the ECS-daylength things as well
23:43:17  <SpComb^> never quite understood what the issue was
23:43:36  <PeterT> I'm making Windows Binaries and Installers
23:43:50  <PeterT> glx: Can I post them on Thread of Randomness?
23:44:11  <glx> PeterT: don't do it :)
23:44:17  <PeterT> Got it :-)
23:44:44  <SpComb^> so is this 1.0.0 a oh-yay-OpenFGFX-is-ready release?
23:45:20  <Rubidium> PeterT: please make a windows binary and installer of *each* trunk revision and post that in the thread of randomness
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23:46:04  <PeterT> Rubidium: Hmm, you can make installers for a trunk revision?
23:46:31  <glx> we can, but we won't :)
23:47:14  <Eddi|zuHause> am i right that beta1 will appear in download-testing when done?
23:47:24  <glx> yup
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