Log for #openttd on 27th December 2009:
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00:02:45  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: a) you can't set both no-unload and no-load, b) that still means it has to land
00:03:20  <Eddi|zuHause> and i still think a) is a bad restriction
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00:22:27  <sparr> SpComb^: its a slow plane on a long trip, im already servicing it at both ends
00:25:38  <orudge> build an airport in the middle perhaps?
00:25:43  <orudge> which you can set to no load/no unload
00:25:46  <orudge> or indeed, just use a service option
00:25:49  <orudge> if there's one for airports
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01:06:00  <SpComb^> sparr: if it's breaking down in mid-flight, then you need to service it in mid-flight or such
01:06:12  <SpComb^> me, I just play with breakdowns disabled :)
01:06:23  <SpComb^> (and servicing)
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01:27:35  <kd5pbo> So, openttd on opensolaris seems to have a problem figuring out window sizes.
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01:29:43  <Eddi|zuHause> hey, it's funny when cp segfaults ;)
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01:35:50  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: you have a funny system :-P
01:36:51  <Eddi|zuHause> well. i was trying to get a less funny system, but i presume some things should not be done on a live system :p
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01:43:19  <sparr> some griefers joined my company before i set a password, in a network game
01:43:23  <sparr> is there any way to get rid of them?
01:43:50  <PeterT> Nope
01:44:10  <PeterT> the edit message for this edit made me laugh really hard:
01:44:16  <PeterT> look at the latest edit :-D
01:44:43  <sparr> well, that blows
01:44:47  <sparr> just wasted 2 hours then
01:44:53  <sparr> now someone is spending my millions griefing other players
01:45:25  <PeterT> What server is this?
01:46:03  <Eddi|zuHause> sparr: only the server admin can kick people
01:47:13  <sparr> i don't know what server
01:47:20  <sparr> i didn't even know he was there until someone told me
01:47:25  <Ammler> sparr: you can set a "default password" so it automatically protect the company on creation
01:47:30  <sparr> Ammler: how?
01:47:36  <sparr> that's good to know in the future, doesn't help now
01:47:43  <sparr> he just ruined this game for multiple people
01:49:31  <Eddi|zuHause> that's why you should only play on reliably moderated servers
01:50:11  <Eddi|zuHause> if a moderator/admin is active, he can quickly deal with such persons
01:50:20  <Eddi|zuHause> or load a backup
01:51:02  <sparr> well, i'm done with non-coop multiplayer
01:51:07  <sparr> that's really shitty game design
01:52:02  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, sure, blame your stupidity on the game
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01:57:38  <sparr> a) this sort of griefing shouldn't be possible in the first place
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01:57:53  <sparr> b) I did nothing stupid.  allowing people to take over my company by default is poor design
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02:02:18  <PeterT> Quite an annoying bug:
02:03:29  <sparr> c) not only was it a waste of my already-played time, but i had to FIGHT the griefer to undo what he was doing with my money
02:03:45  <sparr> so i just spent another 20 minutes un-griefing
02:05:09  <sparr> need a "dissolve company and destroy all property that i own" button
02:05:23  <sparr> for a while he was building faster than i could sell-and-dynamite
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02:08:43  <PeterT> sparr:
02:10:25  <sparr> you have to be in a network game to set it?  then i don't feel wrong at all, since i couldn't have set it before playing my first non-coop network game
02:11:52  <PeterT> You could set it in config, so no.
02:13:39  <PeterT> [network]
02:13:44  <PeterT> default_company_pass=
02:13:49  <PeterT> something like that
02:14:11  <sparr> lol
02:14:19  <sparr> @ needing to edit config by hand
02:14:56  <sparr> @ the thought process behind a design where that is an excuse for otherwise poor "security"
02:15:57  <sparr> openttd griefer howto: join game, join most successful company with no password, ruin the game for people.
02:16:10  <sparr> i can think of at least 3 ways the game could prevent that
02:16:53  <sparr> make "open" companies opt-in instead of opt-out.  notify a player when someone joins their company.  allow the original player of a company to kick new players out of it.
02:19:11  <sparr> since it is certain that there will always be new players who haven't figured out how to set a password yet, no player-interaction-required solution will work
02:19:37  <PeterT> Do you know C++?
02:20:07  <sparr> yes
02:20:20  * sparr knows where this is going
02:21:08  <PeterT> write a patch
02:22:04  <Sacro> sparr: if you don't set a password then fool on you
02:22:38  <Sacro> and you do get a message when someone joins a company
02:23:54  <sparr> Sacro: what does the message look like?
02:24:10  <sparr> i apparently had 2 people in my company and didn't know it until people started complaining about "me" griefing
02:24:28  <glx> you can set default password in your current dead game :)
02:24:34  <sparr> glx: just did
02:24:34  <glx> it will be used for next one
02:24:43  <sparr> but the problem isn't me in my future games
02:24:51  <sparr> it's me in this game, and other players in future games
02:25:09  <sparr> there will always be people who haven't figured out how to set a password yet
02:25:23  <sparr> as long as those people's companies can be taken over, it's a problem
02:25:26  <Sacro> sparr: you'll get something like "suchandsuch has joined the game"
02:25:40  <Sacro> a problem for them perhaps
02:26:44  <sparr> yes, that message is familiar
02:26:51  <sparr> and no, not a problem for them
02:26:52  <sparr> a problem for me
02:27:10  <sparr> in this case, the griefer inconvenienced me some, but i think it was even worse for the people he "attacked" with my company
02:27:21  <sparr> next time i will be on the other end of the problem...  and it will still be a problem
02:28:41  <Sacro> meh, just kick those that don't set a pw in the first 5 mins
02:28:45  <Sacro> and then autoclean their company
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02:29:35  <sparr> an excellent item for the "how to discourage new players from playing again" list
02:29:45  <Sacro> Yep
02:30:03  <Sacro> it'll learn em though
02:30:30  <sparr> also, on a similar subject...
02:30:42  <sparr> there seems to be no way to identify which player is performing particular actions
02:30:45  <sparr> is that right?
02:31:17  <sparr> the person who got attacked in that game asked me to stop blocking him
02:31:22  <sparr> not realizing that it wasn't me
02:32:31  <Sacro> sounds about right
02:32:34  <Sacro> server could log i guess
02:32:44  <Sacro> anyway, i'm off to bed, night
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03:08:16  <sparr> I play a lot of online games.  strategy, shooter, puzzle, rpg.  competitive, coop, single player, etc.  OpenTTD is the only game I have ever played where another player can take control of my position by default.  Also the only one where there is no way to tell which player is performing a particular action.  both major deficiencies, imho
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04:52:27  <sparr> and then there is one player using trains to destroy another player's buses
04:52:41  <sparr> seems like multiplayer is pretty worthless outside of coop
04:54:52  <PeterT> That's just blocking
04:55:14  <PeterT> worthless pieces of ... who do that
04:57:51  <sparr> what is up with road vehicles not honoring train-crossing lights?
04:58:03  <PeterT> There is a patch for that
04:58:08  <sparr> ignoring the offensive playing, that mechanic just seems broken
04:58:17  <sparr> i see it in single player, my trains often run into AI buses that park on the tracks
04:59:36  <PeterT> sparr:
05:01:49  <PeterT> does anyone know if there is a patch for multiple join airports?
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06:20:24  <Rhamphoryncus> sparr: it's a long standing "feature"
06:21:05  <Rhamphoryncus> Just like plane crashes
06:23:13  <neigh>  lol
06:23:44  <Rhamphoryncus> That's not a jpeg..
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06:24:37  <Rhamphoryncus> And since that person has never been here before I'd say there's a good chance it's a browser exploit
06:25:36  <Rhamphoryncus> possibly just a goatse.  Hard to tell, since I have no intention of letting it past adblock
06:27:59  <roboboy> my client tried showing it inline but couldnt
06:29:33  <roboboy> grr the server I was playing crashed
06:46:54  * sparr guards his bus convoys with perpendicular rail at every tile
07:22:33  <sparr> Rhamphoryncus: it just seems like the game is designed for "unfair" play
07:22:55  <Rhamphoryncus> No, the game is designed for friendly play
07:23:34  <Rhamphoryncus> It can't stop an openly malicious player
07:47:06  <sparr> it could try
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09:05:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18642 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#3432]: when a company goes bankrupt and has vehicles on a drive through road stop that is not theirs, the 'filled' cache of the road stops would get corrupted
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09:49:43  <Zuu> sparr: Many suggested ways of trying to stop malicious players can be exploited.
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10:59:02  <Benny> need some help with rcon again..
10:59:43  <Benny> i type "rcon password set server_name value", but it keeps trying to explain how i'm supposed to do it..
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11:03:19  <Benny> o wait, got it
11:03:29  <Benny> one is supposed to use ""'s
11:06:58  <peter1138> hmm
11:07:08  <peter1138> The problem could be, STEL is a TTO cargo type, that gets defined by the patch in temperate anyway and in turn checking it via C will always return true.
11:07:19  <peter1138> ^ most likely because... steel exists in temperate :s
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11:11:58  <peter1138> hehe, we're top of
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12:10:34  * jonty-comp isn't quite sure who to poke, but the devzone redmine appears to be broken
12:10:53  <jonty-comp> sometimes I can't connect, and sometimes I get a "rails application failed to start properly" or something similar
12:11:14  <jonty-comp> ooh wait
12:11:25  <jonty-comp> something is loading sloooowly
12:13:04  <andythenorth> peter1138: STEL problem is fixed ;)
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12:18:33  <peter1138> the action 7 works fine for me
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12:36:11  * Zuu feels like he want to develop something
12:36:58  <Zuu> or I could continue reading the "Effective C++" book.
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12:55:04  * andythenorth big trucks
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12:58:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18643 /trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3436]: rotation could not be changed for heightmaps
13:08:39  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... how do i grep for <tab> character?
13:10:25  <Rubidium> that is a good question :)
13:10:55  <__ln> do you actually want to know how do you enter a tab character on the command line?
13:11:45  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't care about entering, i want to tell grep to search for it
13:12:09  <Eddi|zuHause> there must be some kind of escape sequence or something
13:12:34  <__ln> well, the character itself seems to work
13:13:11  <Ammler> grep -E "\t"
13:13:15  <__ln> can be entered by pressing Strg+V and then tab. needs to be in quotes.
13:15:07  <Ammler> or -P
13:16:29  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: that doesn't seem to work properly
13:18:22  <Eddi|zuHause> as a workaround, i used \W now
13:19:17  <Eddi|zuHause> aah... awk seems to support \t
13:19:29  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18644 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3434]: company league window was too narrow
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13:32:18  <pete> hi
13:32:41  <pete> i have a problem with using tram-tracks from other companies
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13:33:03  <pete> my trams doesnt leave my opponents tracks, unless i control his company
13:33:23  <pete> is this a bug or a known limitation?
13:34:08  <Terkhen> hello
13:35:23  <pete> hi
13:37:56  <pete> anyone there?
13:38:20  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r18645 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3433](r942): out-of-bounds access in the 'Start new multiplayer game' GUI
13:38:22  <roboboy> there are people in here
13:41:00  <pete> Can anyone help me with the tram-question?
13:41:18  <Eddi|zuHause> pete: that seems to be a bug, provide a savegame at
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13:41:25  <pete> okay
13:41:34  <Terkhen> what do you think about this patch?
13:42:09  <pete> I've to register at :-S
13:42:25  <Eddi|zuHause> pete: yes, for potential further questions
13:43:03  <pete> I think the user should decide for himself, if he wants to be asked later or not
13:44:14  <Eddi|zuHause> in all experience, people's "first" bug report is often useless because important information is missing
13:44:14  <pete> Well, i have to validate my email, too. It should be hard to report bugs, eh?
13:44:57  <pete> i'll post my savegame in the tt-forums...
13:45:35  <Eddi|zuHause> that's a bad idea
13:47:26  <pete> force users to register and validate their email, too.
13:47:57  <Eddi|zuHause> of course it does...
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13:48:51  <pete> I can follow you why users have to sing up, but if someone wants to provide an "invaild" email he can, even with validating his adress.
13:49:14  <pete> he can use Instant-Mail-providers or he can use a spam-account
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13:53:06  <edeca> Is the "Two-way quadruple track layout" from the best 4 track main line solution for fast and slow trains?
13:54:18  <pete> the best solution for fast and slow trains is to sort them on seperate tracks (like in real life)
13:55:30  <pete> and the "two-way quartruple track layout" looks _very_ unrealisic
13:55:46  <pete> (and it takes long to build, it takes long to change it...)
13:55:49  <edeca> Er, sure.  But I'm playing a game, not trying to rebuild the good old east coast mainline.
13:56:11  <edeca> And there's no way I'm building a completely different set of rails for every speed of vehicle :)
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13:56:49  <pete> if you bulid 4 tracks, it is easier IMO to build one two-way-track for slow trains and one for fast
13:57:12  <edeca> And how do you force trains down them, many waypoints?
13:57:23  <pete> but the two-way quartuple will work, too, but i think it is more a demonstration of YAPP as a useful method ingame.
13:57:35  <pete> no, some waypoints
13:58:10  <pete> only on crossings, where the train is possible to change from slow to fast track is a waypoint needed.
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13:58:39  <edeca> I much prefer the idea of 2 lines in either direction with switching places, which has always been the way I have seen it done
13:58:42  <pete>
13:59:16  <pete> yes, but then the trains can use both tracks.
13:59:29  <edeca> Sure, and the fast ones switch tracks if they are stuck behind a slow one
13:59:30  <pete> so the slow trains will slow down the faster ones
13:59:42  <pete> because the train will use the track witch is free
13:59:44  <edeca> I was asking about the wiki page above as it is more compact
14:00:33  <pete> and i said, the example from the wiki page above may work, but not perfect and it is very time-expensive to build and handle it, if you design it with many crossings.
14:00:55  <pete> if you design it with fewer crossings, it looses it advantage.
14:01:11  <edeca> It is even more hassle (IMO) to build waypoints and change all orders
14:02:21  <pete> perhaps this one can help you more
14:02:23  <pete>
14:03:13  <edeca> Eh the 4 way one is basically a 4 track version of
14:03:20  <edeca> That isn't too much hassle to build, I might give it a go
14:03:40  <Luukland> Is there someone from France here who can help me solve a small problem (in private)?
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14:05:33  <edeca> French police after you? :)
14:05:58  <Luukland> No no, just some internet questions
14:06:48  <__ln> google translator helps you: "Il ?tait d?j? cass? quand je suis arriv?."
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14:07:31  <pete> edeca: IMO this is design is only useful for low-traffic lines with som express-trains.
14:08:09  <pete> for heavy-traffic-lines with much slow and much fast trains, i personaly prefer a different design
14:09:26  <Eddi|zuHause> so... why does brick chain not work in arctic?
14:14:30  <edeca> pete: Do you have any screenshots of the design you prefer?
14:15:00  <pete> well, simply two lines with waypoints after the junctions
14:15:14  <pete> to get the trains on the right track
14:16:28  <edeca> Still, if a fast train breaks down with a fast train behind it, they are stuck :)
14:16:42  <pete> Eddi|zuHause: Hmm, it seems that the "bug" is not realy affected by the opponets tracks, but i cannot locate it better...
14:17:38  <Eddi|zuHause> pete: you sure that the tracks are actually connected?
14:18:00  <pete> Eddi|zuHause: Yas. One tram, that i forced to enter the track, now use it normal.
14:18:13  <pete> the others does, after i changed the pathfinder to YAPP
14:18:27  <pete> The problem seems to be located in the original pathfinder
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14:19:20  <Eddi|zuHause> pete: i would update to trunk or 1.0.0-beta1, the original pathfinder is removed there
14:19:48  *** tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:19:52  <roboboy> for everything?
14:20:14  <roboboy> I thought I read that YAPF was crap for ships?
14:20:38  <Eddi|zuHause> no, for road vehicles and trains...
14:20:48  <roboboy> ok
14:21:32  <pete> Eddi|zuHause: oh, but the now ones consume more resources?
14:21:51  <Eddi|zuHause> pete: no, they shouldn't
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14:22:21  <Eddi|zuHause> they optimised the hell out of yapf, it even beat the original pathfinder in some tests
14:22:47  <pete> In perfomance or pathfinding?
14:23:29  <Eddi|zuHause> in performance. in pathfinding is trivial ;)
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14:37:57  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r18646 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3418]: [YAPP] Don't extend the reserved path through a newly built path signal directly in front of a stopped or loading train. Also restore the reserved path in more cases after removing a signal.
14:38:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r18647 /trunk/src/ (pbs.cpp pbs.h train_cmd.cpp): -Fix: [YAPP] A train inside a station was not always found when checking for trains on a reserved path.
14:38:06  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r18648 /trunk/src/pbs.cpp: -Fix/Feature [FS#3430-ish]: [YAPP] Treat the backside of an one-way path signals as a safe waiting point.
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14:38:54  <Eddi|zuHause> that last one sounds funny ;)
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14:44:34  <pete> Eddi|zuHause: Is 1.0.0 the direct sequel to 0.7.5 or is it a seperate branch?
14:45:08  <Eddi|zuHause> 1.0 is the successor to 0.7
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14:49:47  <pete> uh, what is that: NOT_REACHED triggered at line 4143 of ..\src\train_cmd.cpp
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14:55:36  <pete> aren't savegames upward-compatible from 0.7.5 to 1.0.0?
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15:07:09  <Zuu> pete: the good news is that if you sign up for, then the same account can be used on the wiki, bananas etc.
15:07:46  <pete> But i dont need to edit wiki pages or upload files to bananas
15:11:08  <Eddi|zuHause> pete: good news is, you can report more than one bug with the same account
15:11:43  <Zuu> And you will get a sumary page with all your reported bugs :-)
15:12:42  <pete> the most of my "bugs" would be either jet reported or are user-mistakes ;)
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15:13:14  <roboboy> if we ever get mp acounts, would they be tied to the website accounts
15:13:19  <nicfer> hi
15:13:20  * roboboy hides
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15:13:51  <nicfer> what does mean 'variety' in the create terrain window?
15:14:12  <pete> have anyone other expected crashes while loading 0.7.5-saves in 1.0.0b
15:14:15  <pete> ?
15:14:30  <PeterT> nicfer:
15:14:37  <roboboy> gnight
15:14:40  <PeterT> pete: No
15:14:59  <Eddi|zuHause> pete: just post the damn savegame already...
15:15:05  <Zuu> See, another possible use for your bugs account :-)
15:15:15  <SpComb^> so yay
15:15:20  <Eddi|zuHause> a dev will then look at it, and tell you whether it's a user mistake
15:15:32  <SpComb^> sitting in a car driving north across Finland, playing OpenTTD online, and drinking a coke
15:15:49  <SpComb^> very convenient
15:15:55  * Zuu hopes SpComb^ does not drive the car also.
15:16:11  <pete> if someone activates my account i can report i, but i resist in validating my mail
15:16:25  <Eddi|zuHause> why does a git update take so damn forever...
15:16:38  <Zuu> Eddi|zuHause: because you are using NTFS?
15:17:14  <Eddi|zuHause> pete: if you are not going to actually help, you can as well leave here... we certainly have no use for such ranting...
15:17:20  <pete> hmm, i can report the force-registering as bug with my account, too =)
15:18:50  <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: not in a way where they could get in contact with each other
15:19:15  <Zuu> Okay, so it is slow also in Linux?
15:19:48  <Kovensky> why are you using git?
15:19:49  <Kovensky> git-svn?
15:20:23  <Eddi|zuHause> because fonsinchen forces me to.
15:20:51  <Kovensky> oh, another project
15:21:08  <Zuu> Cargodist
15:21:11  <Kovensky> also, don't you mean "git pull"? :P
15:21:55  <Eddi|zuHause> whatever is the one that takes forever :p
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15:32:35  <Kovensky> I don't know of any command that could take forever
15:32:57  <Kovensky> other than `git fetch`, and that's only if your internet is slow
15:33:32  <Kovensky> maybe merge / rebase of multiple huge trees
15:33:54  <SmatZ> while (1);
15:33:55  <Kovensky> but I don't think it would be slow on merge / rebase since it was designed for doing those fast
15:33:59  <Kovensky> :P
15:35:46  <Zuu> PeterT: The UKRS server is yours?
15:35:55  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. of course my internet is slow ;)
15:35:56  <PeterT> Zuu: No ;-)
15:36:07  <PeterT> SmatZ: Thanks for fixing that bug
15:36:15  <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: no, it's the other peter
15:36:20  <Zuu> Oh ok
15:36:21  <PeterT> petern?
15:36:41  <peter1138> ?
15:36:45  <Zuu> Do you know when it restarts?
15:37:04  <Zuu> Ie is it soonish?
15:37:06  <SmatZ> PeterT: you are welcome :) FS#3427 has simple fix , but it's not the right way to handle that
15:37:21  <Kovensky> <Eddi|zuHause> yes. of course my internet is slow ;) <-- heh, how slow?
15:37:34  <PeterT> SmatZ: Ah, I read your comments
15:37:38  <peter1138> no fixed time
15:37:42  <PeterT> something for alberth?
15:37:54  <Eddi|zuHause> very slow.
15:37:56  <SmatZ> I don't know :)
15:39:07  <thingwath> Eddi|zuHause: Forever means that it took much more than you expected (like 10 minutes instead of 10 seconds), or that you are still waiting for the command to finish? :)
15:39:34  <Eddi|zuHause> thingwath: as in way longer than an equivalent svn up
15:40:03  <thingwath> And was it over HTTP or not?
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15:40:11  <Kovensky> <Eddi|zuHause> very slow. <-- :<
15:40:46  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i think it was http
15:42:48  <jonty-comp> aww, the devzone is down again :(
15:43:21  <jonty-comp> planetmaker: you're the most obvious person I know to ping: the devzone says "Rails application failed to start properly"
15:43:38  <jonty-comp> it did it this morning, but then it started working again
15:53:32  <jonty-comp> also, dihedral: ping
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16:48:05  <Eddi|zuHause> so who wanted to implement these diagonal bridges again?
16:48:25  <Sweet|Home> diagonal bridges? sounds cool
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16:48:41  <peter1138> YOU DID
16:48:56  <Sweet|Home> i want to be able to build diagonal railway up/down elevations
16:49:38  <Kovensky> diagonal tunnels!
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16:51:05  <jonty-comp> diagonal stations!
16:51:08  <jonty-comp> diagonal bus stops!
16:51:27  <Sweet|Home> 22.5 degree railways \o/
16:51:47  <jonty-comp> change the game to a trimetric projection, like SimCity 4!
16:51:59  <Muxy> diagonal tunnel, bridges, road, bridge crossing
16:52:01  <PeterT> Where did you find that patches?
16:52:04  <PeterT> *those
16:52:15  <jonty-comp> nowehere, they don't exist
16:52:19  <jonty-comp> yet! :p
16:52:22  <PeterT> ah, just a thought?
16:52:31  <jonty-comp> well, you missed the previous 5 lines
16:52:37  <Muxy> and super tunnel : click to build entry, and click to build exit
16:52:44  <peter1138> diagonal stations existed, hehe
16:52:51  <Sweet|Home> that would be awesome Muxy
16:53:02  <Eddi|zuHause> Muxy: that patch actually exists
16:53:10  * PeterT likes this patch:
16:53:12  <Muxy> and set the tunnel lenght to 1
16:53:15  <Eddi|zuHause> someone hacked a little bit ;)
16:53:24  <jonty-comp> now you're thinking with portals
16:53:26  <Muxy> build an entry at one map edge
16:53:28  <Sweet|Home> then you could build an entire subway system under a town
16:53:38  <Muxy> and the exit at the opposite edge
16:54:08  * peter1138 ponders playing portal
16:54:51  <Sweet|Home> i just grabbed loads of scenario's but all the towns are already huge....:S
16:54:55  <Muxy> Eddi: what patche : super tunnel ?
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16:57:53  <Kovensky> <Muxy> build an entry at one map edge
16:57:53  <Kovensky> <Muxy> and the exit at the opposite edge
16:57:53  <Kovensky> <jonty-comp> now you're thinking with portals
16:58:01  <Kovensky> I prefer this order of the sentences
16:58:02  <Kovensky> :P
16:59:17  <Muxy> ?
16:59:26  <jonty-comp> :D
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17:39:19  <peter1138> hurr
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17:45:36  <Bjelleklang> does anyone know if there are any functions in the AI API for uppercasing the first character in a string?
17:46:11  <andythenorth> I am coding a large swap-body fast should it load :)
17:46:12  <andythenorth> ?
17:49:54  <Eddi|zuHause> fast, as in simply switching the trailer?
17:50:11  <Eddi|zuHause> or do i have the wrong picture in mind?
17:53:10  <andythenorth> fast, as in drop one palette, pick up another:
17:53:12  *** PeterT [] has quit [Quit: bye for now...]
17:53:33  <andythenorth> also, I've drawn things a bit small :|
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17:53:34  <andythenorth> grtr
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17:56:42  <dihedral> jonty-comp, pong
17:58:24  <andythenorth> hmm
17:58:30  <andythenorth> steel is heavy, right?
17:58:57  <Eddi|zuHause> 1t of steel is heavier than 1t of feathers?
18:00:01  <andythenorth> how fast is it travelling?
18:00:20  <andythenorth> does 1t of steel distort spacetime more than 1t of feathers?
18:00:33  <Eddi|zuHause> :)
18:01:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i have seen either steel or feathers travel anywhere close to light speed ;)
18:02:12  <andythenorth> if I've drawn vehicles too small for their capacity to be believable, do I
18:02:15  <andythenorth> (a) redraw them
18:02:23  <andythenorth> (b) reduce the capacity
18:02:23  <andythenorth> ?
18:05:23  <Noldo> c) forget about suspending disbelif
18:05:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't possibly decide that without seeing it "live"
18:06:35  <andythenorth> I like what Noldo said :)  (but I'm not doing it!)
18:06:41  <andythenorth> I've dropped the capacity
18:06:45  <andythenorth> now here's a funny thing
18:06:54  <andythenorth> trains are more fun with unrealistic capacities
18:07:13  <andythenorth> it makes for longer trains.  Pikka and Dan MacK set them up to about 1/3 of real life
18:07:28  <andythenorth> road vehicles are more fun with slightly higher capacity than real life
18:08:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i want longer passenger wagons :(
18:08:40  <SpComb^> refit cattle cars to passengers
18:08:43  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: surely achievable?
18:09:09  <andythenorth> is there a way to adjust the number of units of passengers?
18:09:47  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but a) MB is likely not going to ever release his new set, and b) i'm afraid they won't be long enough then
18:10:14  <SpComb^> dbsetxl 0.9?
18:10:47  <Eddi|zuHause> that i mean, yes
18:11:28  <Eddi|zuHause> he said he's going to make them longer, but not 16/8, because that'd be too glitchy...
18:11:39  <andythenorth> hmm.  no easy way to adjust capacities with newgrf
18:12:01  <andythenorth> use NA City set?  Produces prodigious amounts of passengers...
18:13:12  * SpComb^ plays TTRS with 1/4th pax
18:15:07  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i want one wagon the length of two original wagons
18:15:18  <Eddi|zuHause> nothing about capacity
18:15:46  <andythenorth> ah
18:15:59  <andythenorth> well that's a bit crazy, so I can't discuss it any further :P
18:16:03  <andythenorth> :D
18:16:14  <andythenorth> will look strange in curves, no?
18:16:43  <Coco-Banana-Man> SpComb^: Does Town cargo generation factor -8 mean that towns produce only 1/8 of the original amount?
18:16:53  <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably one of the glitches that MB was talking about
18:18:01  <Coco-Banana-Man> then that's how I'm playing atm - with NARS, NACitySet and also TTRS
18:19:16  <Coco-Banana-Man> (and ECS - even if I'm missing limestone then.)
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18:21:16  <Zuu> Bjelleklang: Have you checked the squirrel docs?
18:21:57  <Bjelleklang> yeah, found the functions for getting the full string to upper/lower
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18:22:44  <Bjelleklang> does Squirrel treat a string as an array consisting of characters similar to other languages?
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18:22:53  <Zuu> I think so
18:23:12  <Bjelleklang> ok, then it shouldn't be a big problem writing the functions I need myself :)
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18:24:58  <Zuu> Are you doing some kind of name generator?
18:26:01  <Bjelleklang> yeah, generally just playing around with the AI API :)
18:26:59  <Bjelleklang> but atm I'm trying to make a function that generates semi-random companynames
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18:31:49  <Zuu> Some day I should pick up PAXLink again at least to the point of getting next version out. :-)
18:32:40  <Zuu> The version in development has quite some nice improvements, though the very last svn-version crashes if the tabu search has marked all neighbours as tabu.
18:34:21  <andythenorth> anyone want to play test my new HEQS vehicles?
18:34:25  <andythenorth> couple of new ones...
18:35:23  <planetmaker> Zuu: let it issue a swearing message instead like "this sux. I cannot build anywhere :-(" :-)
18:36:56  <Zuu> planetmaker: Well, it is actually an tabu search optimizer for the airport pairs. It is supposed to come up with connection changes.
18:37:54  <planetmaker> what does "tabu" stand for? I have the feeling not for what I think it might be...
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18:44:42  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'm still interested in this "cargo 'tram'" idea you talked about a few weeks ago
18:44:56  <andythenorth> narrow gauge industrial?
18:45:00  <tokai> planetmaker: something you're not supposed to talk about? :)
18:45:08  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, those
18:45:31  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r18649 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
18:45:31  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:31  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
18:45:31  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: finnish - 3 changes by Tve4
18:45:31  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: korean - 1 changes by dlunch
18:45:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: norwegian_nynorsk - 7 changes by 2rB
18:45:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: vietnamese - 39 changes by motorolavn, nglekhoi
18:45:39  <planetmaker> hehe, tokai :-) yes
18:45:53  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: it's a back-burner project ;)
18:46:02  <andythenorth> but things like this:
18:46:51  <Zuu> planetmaker: It is a way of doing local search to avoid getting stuck in local optimums. (Optimization)
18:47:18  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: <-- possible inspiration
18:47:47  <Eddi|zuHause> engine for 900mm coal transport network near Leipzig
18:47:54  <Zuu> It marks the n last visited solutions as tabu and will not visit them untill they are removed from the tabu-list.
18:49:40  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that sort of thing
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18:50:22  <planetmaker> hm... so it really means that... but shouldn't it be "taboo" in English?
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19:05:59  <Michalxo> hello all! Merry Christmas! :-)
19:06:20  <Michalxo> if anyone have a bit of a time to respond my question, I'd be very pleased
19:06:35  <Luukland> shoot
19:06:36  <Michalxo> Does openSFX works with 0.7.5 version
19:06:37  <Michalxo> ?
19:07:06  <Michalxo> it's the latest stable... in readme there is 8.0.0+ (what?)
19:07:12  <Luukland> Please note that this release does not add support for OpenSFX. For that you still need the nightlies/trunk.
19:07:18  <Luukland> 0.7.5
19:07:23  <Luukland> Direct quote from website
19:07:23  <Michalxo> aha
19:07:43  <Luukland> Here u go, if you want to read it again:
19:07:44  <Michalxo> I am going to read there more :-D just installed it today and test it.. GFX works great :-)
19:07:51  <Michalxo> thank you!
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19:09:10  <Zuu> planetmaker: That might be the correct English word.
19:09:13  <Michalxo> damn! I should DL 1.0.0. instead of 0.7.5 lol.. I am going to DL the christmas present.. thank you guys :-)
19:09:50  <Michalxo> just a question about MP.. is it possible to save MP games?
19:10:04  <planetmaker> did you try?
19:10:22  <Michalxo> not yet
19:10:29  <Michalxo> just asking...
19:10:31  *** FooBar [] has joined #openttd
19:10:37  <Michalxo> I am instaling the game
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19:11:25  <Zuu> as a you probably understand it is indeed possible.
19:12:26  <Michalxo> great great, thanks!
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19:21:49  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... in docs/landscape.html, the owner information seems a bit outdated
19:21:58  <Eddi|zuHause> it talks about 8 players
19:23:36  <Eddi|zuHause> Michalxo: mind that you're probably going to end up in the wrong company when loading in single player, so use the company cheat
19:26:40  <Michalxo> right now, I am starting 1.0.0b
19:28:34  <Michalxo> Eddi|zuHause, could you please test multiplayer with me?
19:29:00  <Eddi|zuHause> that's likely not going to help you ;)
19:29:08  <Michalxo> why?
19:31:16  <Michalxo> Eddi|zuHause, I don't understand
19:33:08  <jonty-comp> dihedral: counter-pong
19:35:05  <Michalxo> hm.. I am unable to join any multiplayer game :-(
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19:41:00  <sparr> Zuu: make new companies not open for joining by default.  alert a player when someone joins their company.  allow a company founder to kick people out of their company.  track who builds things (for the query tool maybe?) so admins know who to kick.
19:41:06  <sparr> these don't seem heavily exploitable to me
19:41:57  <Luukland> :s Just make a password required?
19:42:05  <Luukland> With a small patch?
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19:42:24  <Muxy> mean company master
19:42:50  <sparr> Luukland: password required is one easy way to implement that
19:42:53  <Muxy> make the company public, and create user groups
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19:43:03  <Luukland> Muxy! Remember: KISS
19:43:09  <Muxy> and choose what action can be made by group
19:43:20  <sparr> I am quite angry that not only was MY fun ruined by someone who joined my company, but so was the fun of multiple other players who he "attacked"
19:43:57  <Muxy> didnt you have a company password ?
19:43:58  <Luukland> Hmmm, some servers do have this "company password required before you can build" already implented
19:44:16  <Muxy> hehe goulp patch
19:44:21  <Eddi|zuHause> sparr: 1) how to handle someone leaving and coming back later, if the company is locked?, 2) that already happens, possibly can be more prominent. 3) again, how about somebody leaving, someone else joining in the mean time, first person coming back. 4) insane memory requirements. how to decide who was who later on [e.g. changing ip]
19:44:23  <sparr> Muxy: no.  I do now, but that doesn't solve the problem, since new players will keep not having them
19:45:23  <Eddi|zuHause> sparr: it's not like you are the first person to complain, but nobody had a conclusive suggestion yet
19:45:27  <Muxy> sparr: what exactly is your problem ?
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19:45:47  <Muxy> the goulp patch does not allow a client to play without password set.
19:45:58  <Luukland> its a very nice patch
19:45:59  <sparr> Eddi|zuHause: unlock it if no one is playing it, perhaps.  what does the alert look like (I asked yesterday and no one could tell me)?  founder could be as simple as name, as complex as a hash of identifying information.  tracking builders could just be by name
19:46:32  <sparr> Muxy: I joined my first network multiplayer no-coop game, made a lot of money, then someone joined my company and spent all my money attacking other players
19:46:40  <sparr> road blocking, trains-vs-buses, etc
19:47:02  <Eddi|zuHause> sparr: names can easily be faked, and ip-addresses are too dynamic
19:47:07  <Muxy> ok, then if you create a company on a OpenTTD Goulp Server, the company password is mandatory for playing
19:47:10  <sparr> Eddi|zuHause: names cant be faked in realtime
19:47:14  <Eddi|zuHause> sparr: and again, there is not enough space to store any such data
19:47:42  <sparr> Muxy: how does it enforce that?  i mean, what happens to players without a password?
19:47:51  <Muxy> they ccan build anything
19:47:53  <Muxy> cant
19:47:55  <sparr> Eddi|zuHause: I want to know who is doing things while they happen.  after is less important.
19:47:58  <Eddi|zuHause> sparr: they can be faked more easily than it takes to implement your suggestion, which makes the suggestion useless
19:48:02  <sparr> Muxy: do they get a message of some sort?
19:48:13  <Luukland> Yeah, a very annoyying message
19:48:15  <sparr> can two players have the same name?
19:48:16  <Muxy> tchat message
19:48:21  <Eddi|zuHause> sparr: there is no such thing as "while"
19:48:28  <Muxy> 2 client same name : impossible
19:48:33  <Eddi|zuHause> things either happen in the past or in the future
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19:48:42  <sparr> Eddi|zuHause: when Joe Griefer builds a road, I want to know who did it
19:48:56  <sparr> hell, just pop up the player name under the floating cost
19:49:03  <sparr> (optionally)
19:49:08  <Luukland> :S
19:49:17  <Eddi|zuHause> sparr: you're getting kinda aggressive
19:49:19  <Luukland> Such a harsch solution for a easy solvable problem
19:49:32  <sparr> Luukland: what is the easy solution?
19:49:35  <Luukland> F9 -> Set pass and dont let anybody you dont trust in
19:49:36  <Muxy> sparr: builded land belongs to the company
19:50:01  <sparr> Luukland: the problem isn't people joining MY company, I've fixed that.  the problem is people joining the companies of other new players who haven't done that yet, of which there continue to be some
19:50:03  <Luukland> Ah yeah and with set pass I mean a actual password, not 123 or abc
19:50:16  <Luukland> Then use the goulp patch, it is that simple
19:50:25  <sparr> sounds like a server patch
19:50:44  <Luukland> Yeap, and it wont even bumb your version :)
19:50:57  <sparr> Muxy: yes, and that was the problem then.  people were accusing ME of attacking them, because the company was "sparr Transport"
19:51:07  <sparr> Muxy: the question is which player did it, not which company
19:51:17  <sparr> even if there was an admin online, they wouldnt have known who to kick
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19:52:01  <Eddi|zuHause> sparr: i can only repeat this one more time: it is not possible to store such data, so it cannot be displayed either
19:52:29  <sparr> I disagree.
19:52:37  <sparr> it wouldn't need to be stored with the price idea
19:52:40  <sparr> just sent as it happens
19:52:46  <Muxy> then its time to integrate the mandatory_password setting to trunk
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19:53:27  <sparr> the server already sends a "company X just spent $Y at coordinate Z" packet (presumably) to trigger the price to float up.  add to that packet "player W"
19:53:56  <Eddi|zuHause> exactly, it says "company X", not "client X"
19:54:18  <Michalxo> guys, you really did a GREAT job ;-)
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19:54:28  <Muxy> client X sends a build packet to server
19:54:32  <sparr> Muxy: right
19:54:40  <sparr> so the server knows who it came from
19:54:41  <Muxy> server sends the build packet to client company owner
19:54:44  * yorick has tried to get that in at least twice
19:54:56  <Eddi|zuHause> changing the server packages is heavily deep in the infrastructure
19:54:56  <Muxy> client ask the owner : do you want to allow, blablabla
19:55:19  <Muxy> client allow server to run the packet
19:55:23  <sparr> Muxy: that would be quite unwieldy
19:55:33  <sparr> on a per-build basis
19:55:37  <Muxy> then company owner canot play anymore
19:55:50  <Muxy> just say yes/no to the packets
19:55:53  <Zuu> Uhm, AIOF_GOTO_NEAREST_DEPOT seams to get triggered sometimes when it shouldn't. Though it required a tile without a station to be sent as destination. :-s
19:55:55  <Eddi|zuHause> again, there is no such thing as a "company owner"
19:55:57  <Muxy> no more time to play
19:56:07  <Eddi|zuHause> it is IMPOSSIBLE to decide who is the owner.
19:56:14  <Zuu> AIOF_GOTO_NEAREST_DEPOT has the same integer value as the unload order flag.
19:56:14  <Muxy> yes it
19:56:28  <Muxy> it's the client who creates it
19:56:46  <sparr> Muxy: Eddi|zuHause has some serious confusion between "IMPOSSIBLE" and "code not written yet"
19:56:50  <Muxy> anyway, sparr, then use a OpenTTD goulp patched server
19:56:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Muxy: and if that client leaves and rejoins with a different IP?
19:57:10  <Eddi|zuHause> sparr: i mean actual IMPOSSIBLE
19:57:19  <Muxy> if company is left and no more client, then the first clien joining will become the owner
19:57:39  <Eddi|zuHause> sparr: for any algorithm you come up with, there will be an exploit to get ownership to an unwanted person
19:58:05  <sparr> Eddi|zuHause: that's fine, as long as it adds steps to the current easy-griefing strategy of "join the company with the most money with no password"
19:58:15  <sparr> ANYTHING is better than how it is now
19:58:18  <Muxy> but i'm thinking of something for public coop server
19:58:21  <yorick>
19:58:53  <yorick> hmm actually not :(
19:59:04  <Michalxo> thank you guys for game! Enjoy holidays and Happy new year!
19:59:16  <yorick> it is
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20:00:05  <Eddi|zuHause> Muxy, sparr: anyway, _please_ come up with a CONCLUSIVE, moderately SAFE and EASILY IMPLEMENTABLE solution
20:00:08  <sparr> forget about kicking people...
20:00:16  <sparr> is there any way in-game to see who is in your company?
20:00:24  <yorick> yes
20:00:26  <Eddi|zuHause> sparr: yes, in the client list
20:00:38  <sparr> where?
20:00:47  <sparr> that is, how do you access the client list
20:00:52  <Eddi|zuHause> where the company stats are, i think
20:01:03  <Eddi|zuHause> one of those icons in the main toolbar
20:01:30  <sparr> good to know
20:03:57  <Bjelleklang> does anyone know if it's possible to run AI API functions from the ingame console?
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20:06:07  <Muxy> Eddi: a KISS solution is running on goulp servers
20:08:42  <Zuu> Bjelleklang: No that is not possible.
20:09:27  <Zuu> You can build a function to check if a sign with a certain text exists. Then you can change your AI behaviour depending on if a specific sign exists.
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20:10:23  <Zuu> I also have a function that puts out a break sign and stops the AI until that sign has been removed.
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20:11:19  <Zuu> Just keep in mind that you need to use the cheat dialog and change company to your AI company in order to the AI to see the signs.
20:12:06  <Bjelleklang> ah, I was thinking more along the lines of running an API function in order to see the raw output
20:14:38  <Zuu> That would be useful. Your patch is welcome :-p
20:16:05  <Eddi|zuHause> it was once suggested that squirrel may become the console language, but that wasn't followed through
20:17:56  <Luukland> squirrel? are u sure?
20:18:28  <Zuu> I think he is sure, since I've also heard about that.
20:20:05  <Zuu> I think Nail was one of the reasons why the delayed it.
20:21:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i think there were also concerns about unfairness, when people run an entire AI as helper script
20:23:56  <Zuu> indeed, though it could be a restricted set of functions being available in the console.
20:24:40  <Zuu> There was also a map generation API, but it was too slow.
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20:36:46  <kratt> can somebody tell me how to play with 32bpp with zoom
20:37:25  <kratt> iwe downloaded pack
20:37:27  <kratt> 50 mb
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20:42:29  <Zuu> kratt: Didn't those 50 mb contain a readme?
20:47:56  <glx> you need to apply a patch too
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20:50:05  <kratt> you dont unpack the tar file
20:50:25  <kratt> and what patch
20:50:36  <kratt> For windows there are precompiled binaries by GeekToo.
20:50:37  <kratt> this?
20:50:45  <kratt> i tried it on nightly
20:50:47  <kratt> wont work
20:52:06  <Zuu> kratt: You can unpack a tar file.
20:52:34  <Zuu> Just as that you can unpack a zip file
20:53:55  <kratt> okay i unpacked
20:54:57  <kratt> now where i need to put it
20:55:00  <kratt> and there is no readme
20:55:32  <Zuu> okay, still from where you found out about it there should be some instructions.
20:57:57  <kratt> it wont work
20:58:09  <kratt> i copyed .tar to data
20:58:22  <kratt> cant be seen on newgrf a
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21:14:16  <Zuu> planetmaker: Actually it is Tabu Search also in English:
21:14:39  <planetmaker> interesting
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21:17:10  <SpComb^> Coco-Banana-Man: no
21:17:47  <SpComb^> Coco-Banana-Man: -8x means roughly 1/256th
21:18:16  <Coco-Banana-Man> ah, so 1/(2^X)?
21:18:31  <Eddi|zuHause> 2^(-8)
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21:18:58  <Coco-Banana-Man> ok..
21:19:01  <SpComb^> yes
21:23:15  <Coco-Banana-Man> but is it really 1/256 of the original amount?
21:23:31  <Coco-Banana-Man> It still seems quite much passengers
21:23:39  <Coco-Banana-Man> +to be
21:25:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know which patch/grf/whatever you use, but it's likely that everything will get rounded to 1 at these values
21:25:35  <Eddi|zuHause> which will turn out more than simple factor of 1/256
21:34:25  <Eddi|zuHause> @devs: i don't understand something: in docs/landscape.html it says for level crossings, bits m6:4..0 is the road owner, but also it says bit m6:1..0 is tropic zone definition... so what is it?
21:37:14  <Hirundo> Quick look at the code suggests that the road owner is stored in m7 bits 4..0, not in m6
21:37:33  <SmatZ> indeed :)
21:40:37  <SmatZ> hmm it seems docs are also wrong wrt. depot owner
21:44:56  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i think i can do double tracks in either an 8-bit or 15-bit variant [16 bits seem to be free for rails]
21:45:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r18650 /: -Fix: in the case of level crossing, location of the owner of road was documented wrongly (Eddi)
21:46:39  <Eddi|zuHause> ... if i can trust the docs
21:47:19  <Hirundo> ...double tracks...?
21:47:58  <Eddi|zuHause> two tracks on one tile in X or Y direction
21:48:15  <Eddi|zuHause> plus switches, crossings, signals, etc.
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21:49:24  <Hirundo> My mind just overflowed :) Isn't that insanely hard to code?
21:49:46  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly ;)
21:50:26  <Eddi|zuHause> most troublesome might be vehicle movement, but that could possibly be copied from road vehicles
21:50:41  <SpComb^> Coco-Banana-Man: yeah, at -8x, you're going to get pretty exactly 1 pax/house/some-unit-of-time
21:51:08  <SpComb^> Coco-Banana-Man: so if you have a lot of houses, it'll still add up
21:51:12  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb^: i think houses produce once per tile loop
21:51:14  <Coco-Banana-Man> I'm playing with 4x daylength btw
21:52:00  <SpComb^> daylength doesn't have anything to do with town cargo generation :)
21:52:20  <SpComb^> but yeah, I personally recommend 4x daylength and -2x town cargo
21:52:46  <Eddi|zuHause> you shouldn't say "2x" with exponents
21:52:57  <SpComb^> yeah, it's confusing, I give you that :(
21:55:56  <SpComb^> latest is-it-daylength-or-cargodist-or-trunk assertion posted: Assertion failed at line 1145 of ..\src\economy.cpp: v->time_counter != 0 :(
21:56:12  <SpComb^> I probably need to fiure outhow to use .dmp's and the .pdb's
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21:58:14  <PeterT> Yeah, I don't have a clue on what to do with the pdb, I just know that I have to upload them
21:58:32  <SpComb^> nor do I, but I guess it's a good thing that you do :P
21:58:52  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb^: i had one of those: Error: Assertion failed at line 1130 of /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTDx/cargodist/src/economy.cpp: v->load_unload_time_rem != 0
21:58:59  <SpComb^> I gather it lets you doa post-mortem debug
21:59:13  <Eddi|zuHause> with cargodist and timetables
21:59:22  <Eddi|zuHause> without daylength
21:59:26  <SpComb^> yeah, I was also tending towards a cargodist bug there
21:59:56  <SpComb^> but looking at some other code, it seems that some uint16 tick counters might overflow in calculations involving DAY_TICKS
22:00:01  <Zuu> PeterT: Try double clicking them? I've managed to use them once :-)
22:00:27  <PeterT> "Windows cannot find to open with..." or whatever
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22:03:22  <Bjelleklang> can someone have a look at a pastebin for me? This is driving me nuts :/
22:03:38  <Zuu> ?
22:03:50  <Bjelleklang> I'm basically trying to use a setter to set a classvariable, but no matter what I try I get an error
22:03:58  <Bjelleklang> oh? Wasn't aware of that one
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22:04:17  <Noldo> you didn't paste the error yout got
22:04:48  <Bjelleklang> The error is "the index HqCity doesn't exist"
22:05:20  <Bjelleklang> in the setter, I've tried this.HqCity, Company.HqCity, and just HqCity = "somevalue"
22:05:39  <Noldo> does come from the constructor or the setter?
22:05:47  <Bjelleklang> the error comes from the setter
22:06:21  *** lewymati [] has quit []
22:06:45  <Zuu> How do you call the setter?
22:06:54  <Zuu> As a static function or as a member function?
22:07:23  <Zuu> If you call it as a static function you will get the errors that you described.
22:08:13  <Bjelleklang> oh, that's probably where the error is :/
22:08:35  <Bjelleklang> use this.Setter() instead of Company.Setter(), or are there other ways to do it?
22:08:41  <Zuu> Note also that if a static function calls a non-static function you will get these kind of errors.
22:09:09  <Zuu> local c = new Company();
22:09:14  <Zuu> c.Setter(value);
22:09:43  <Bjelleklang> ah, great!
22:11:06  <Bjelleklang> thanks for the help :)
22:12:17  <Zuu> Your welcome :-)
22:12:39  <Zuu> Looking forward to seeing your AI when you get to that point. :-)
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22:21:35  <Bjelleklang> will probably be a while, not quite sure what directions it'll go in yet :)
22:22:06  <Bjelleklang> but hopefully it'll be a fun AI that does a little bit of all, mixed with some randomness just for fun
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22:45:32  <glx> <SpComb^> I probably need to fiure outhow to use .dmp's and the .pdb's <-- easy, put crash.dmp, openttd.exe and the corresponding openttd.pdb in a dir, then double click on crash.dmp, then "run" (F5)
22:46:00  <glx> and when it asks for source file give it the path :)
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