Log for #openttd on 3rd January 2010:
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01:28:29  <MegaDeath409> Hey what revision is the ottd1.0beta1?
01:29:50  <glx> it's tags/1.0.0-beta1
01:30:07  <glx> revision is not important
01:31:03  <MegaDeath409> i need the revision number previous to or after it so i know which version of infrastructure sharing to get
01:31:41  <MegaDeath409> ok a better question would be "Is r18637 before or after 1.0.0-beta1?"
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01:32:29  <glx> after
01:32:37  <MegaDeath409> ok thank you :)
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02:00:55  <dragonhorseboy> hey
02:03:01  <NeosaD> ^^
02:11:40  <dragonhorseboy> so what doing?
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02:15:27  <NeosaD> me?
02:15:52  <NeosaD> I'm going crazy with mingw and wget ...
02:16:45  <dragonhorseboy> heh ok
02:17:07  <NeosaD> i'm folowing this ->
02:17:36  <NeosaD> but in the part of compiling wget...
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09:08:52  <Terkhen> good morning
09:19:11  <andythenorth> morning
09:22:23  <peter1138> cold=
09:31:56  <Eddi|zuHause> my satellite antenna is snowed in...
09:32:22  <Eddi|zuHause> so my overnight recordings are garbage
09:32:40  <Lachie> fail
09:32:46  <Eddi|zuHause> and now i can't even tune...
09:33:50  <sawtooth> its -20F outside at the moment.  I wonder if owen is having 2nd thoughts about his move to Minnesota :)
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09:34:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea how much -20F is...
09:35:15  <SpComb> -22?C here
09:35:39  <SpComb> power even cut out during the night
09:35:52  <sawtooth> -20F is -29C
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09:36:40  <sawtooth> i should really get some sleep though
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09:46:21  <peter1138> mmm, global warming :D
09:46:33  <SpComb> ofc
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09:52:56  <andythenorth> Terkhen: I think it would be acceptable to change the steel mill color on a grey mini-map background...
09:55:03  <Terkhen> okay, I'll try changing the steel mill and bank colours, I'll post a screenshot when I'm done
09:57:33  <peter1138> don't
09:57:47  <peter1138> you have to check for similar colours when drawing
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10:11:11  <Alberth> better yet, make it customizable so everybody can use his own favorite colours
10:12:07  <Luukland> Just remember KISS guys, keep it short & simple
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10:15:22  <Terkhen> customizable standard industry colours or customizable heightmap colours?
10:15:58  <Terkhen> peter1138: you mean a generic check? to not use any colours used in the heightmap?
10:21:43  <planetmaker> good morning
10:21:50  <Terkhen> good morning planetmaker
10:22:05  <planetmaker> concerning the colour choices I like to propose to look at for possible inspiration
10:22:15  <planetmaker> Those colours even work with my boss ;-)
10:22:44  <planetmaker> E.g. they work well for people with limited colour perception
10:24:30  <peter1138> Terkhen, i mean that newgrf industries set their own colour, which can conflict too
10:24:39  <planetmaker> he, indeed...
10:27:09  <Terkhen> I could cycle through all industries, mark all of their colours as used, then check the industries that have conflictive colours and assign them an unused colour instead... anyone has a simpler idea?
10:28:33  <Terkhen> I would also need a way of deciding which colour should be assigned, to not make two industries look too much alike
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10:39:25  <planetmaker> Terkhen: "not too much alike": It might be a good idea to use for that end a kind of pre-defined (or a few of those) colour cycles. Using that one with the fewest unused colours.
10:40:06  <peter1138> hmm... is it possible to do something else, like outline the industries
10:40:18  <planetmaker> hm, nice idea :-)
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10:40:24  <Terkhen> peter1138: I like that :)
10:41:24  <Terkhen> then it only needs a single colour that don't conflicts with the heightmap colours
10:41:57  <planetmaker> like black
10:42:12  <planetmaker> e.g. like the off-map colour
10:42:24  <planetmaker> that can be safely re-used
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10:44:30  <andythenorth> @seen frosch123
10:44:30  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: frosch123 was last seen in #openttd 13 hours, 3 minutes, and 26 seconds ago: <frosch123> night
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10:54:37  <andythenorth>
10:54:40  <andythenorth> thoughts?
10:58:36  <andythenorth> Terkhen: greyscale map looks good
10:58:43  <andythenorth> I'd use a much closer range of greys
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10:59:10  <andythenorth> are those greys 16 through 23?
10:59:21  <Hyronymus> good morning
10:59:23  <andythenorth> (in dec)
10:59:41  <Hyronymus> question
10:59:58  <Hyronymus> I found a thread about a combined climate experiment
11:00:14  <Hyronymus> was something ever released
11:00:42  <Hyronymus>
11:00:43  <Terkhen> andythenorth:
11:00:48  <Rubidium> if it was in miniin or one of the first ottd gaming day binaries
11:01:47  <andythenorth> Terkhen: which numbers are which in that paste?  I could make assumptions, but they're probably wrong :o
11:02:20  <andythenorth> the tuple-like structures look like they contain rgb?
11:02:31  <Terkhen> penultimate row is dec, last one is hex
11:02:51  <Terkhen> yes, I used RGB to order them
11:03:32  <andythenorth> do you need a full 16 greys?
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11:04:15  <Terkhen> yes, otherwise the heightmap would lose detail
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11:04:35  <andythenorth> don't think the detail matters on that map at that size.  It's dithered anyway.  I'd use 8 colours.
11:04:51  <andythenorth> 16-23 from Alberth's chart
11:05:23  <planetmaker> I agree with andy. 8 distinctions should suffice.
11:05:34  <planetmaker> and makes it a hell lot of easier.
11:05:35  <andythenorth> of course, if more height levels made it to trunk....
11:05:44  <andythenorth> but no, let's not worry about that
11:05:51  <planetmaker> ^ :-)
11:06:04  <planetmaker> and I still don't understand FIRS disabling NARS2 :-(
11:06:11  <Terkhen> if height levels made it to trunk, it would need the complete palette anyways
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11:06:30  <andythenorth> planetmaker: we need to fix that FIRS issue, NARS 2 is my default testing trainset for FIRS :o
11:06:35  <Hyronymus> never made to miniin
11:09:51  <planetmaker> uhm... andythenorth: it works for me without change...
11:10:20  <planetmaker> NARS2 and FIRS are fine here.
11:10:30  <andythenorth> planetmaker: have you disabled NARS regearing?
11:10:38  <planetmaker> no
11:10:48  <planetmaker> no parameters anywhere
11:11:04  <andythenorth> interesting
11:11:21  <andythenorth> If I set a NARS 2 param, FIRS becomes compatible with it again
11:11:40  <planetmaker> but even with
11:12:28  <andythenorth> even more interesting, I've cleared all params, and everything is now fine
11:12:43  <planetmaker> works both ways for me. For both orders (NARS first, NARS last)
11:12:47  <planetmaker> no other newgrfs.
11:12:55  <planetmaker> Did you have any others? Like ECS town?
11:12:57  <andythenorth> parameters are going to be 'cached' by my newgrf.cfg, right?
11:13:11  <planetmaker> not cached. It sets a flag, if that param is used
11:13:27  <planetmaker> which it later queries and decides to do nothing about :-P
11:13:29  <andythenorth> hmm...well the issue is gone now
11:14:01  <planetmaker> (e.g. regearing is detected as it eats a cargo, but it doesn't modify our cargo translation table, so no action needs taking)
11:14:23  <planetmaker> so... it works for you, too? Then I close the issue
11:14:44  <planetmaker> or... did you have any other newgrf active around that time? By any chance?
11:15:04  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I can reproduce it by setting further NARS parameters
11:15:18  <planetmaker> further? Like which?
11:15:18  <andythenorth> 0 7 2 11 0 1 disables FIRS
11:15:25  <Terkhen> adding an outline to the industries is not easy... the smallmap works at tile level, and a tile with outline looks really ugly
11:15:25  <andythenorth>
11:15:33  <planetmaker> let's see, yes I have that page open :-)
11:15:44  <andythenorth> Terkhen: an outline will suck, especially for small industries located in towns
11:16:51  <andythenorth> planetmaker: just set the first param to 0 and FIRS will disable
11:17:04  <andythenorth> maybe that was present before we templated
11:17:15  <andythenorth> maybe we can assign it to FooBar :P
11:17:30  <planetmaker> uhm, no, andythenorth ?
11:18:19  <planetmaker> also your parameter choice as just quoted works here
11:20:08  <andythenorth> planetmaker:
11:20:37  <planetmaker> andy: please disable FISH and try without
11:20:48  <andythenorth> that is in r18694 btw
11:20:53  <planetmaker> it also has a warning.
11:21:03  <Alberth> Terkhen: and when zoomed-out (if we ever get that) it gets worse
11:21:20  <Terkhen> yes... I'm out of nice solutions
11:22:12  <Alberth> I hate it when that happens
11:22:53  <andythenorth> planetmaker: there are so many combinations :(
11:23:10  <andythenorth> the problem is reproducible, but I'm not sure which combinations cause it
11:23:14  <Terkhen> I could just implement an automatic replace of brown industry colours (53-59) to something else
11:23:14  <planetmaker> please just check w/o anything else :-) Just FIRS + NARS2
11:23:37  <Terkhen> but that's just a hack
11:23:38  <Alberth> Terkhen: it would work for you, but not in general
11:24:02  <Noldo> what do those magic browns do anyway?
11:24:15  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I did that.  Setting value 2 for NARS param 1 does work
11:24:21  <Alberth> Noldo: Terkhen doesn't like them
11:24:33  <Terkhen> Noldo: they have the magic power of confusing r-g colour blind people
11:24:58  <Noldo> show me, I have that
11:25:05  <planetmaker> andythenorth: that screeny is different, though ;-)
11:25:16  <planetmaker> but I wouldn't understand FISH influence either...
11:25:21  <Terkhen> just open any temperate game and try to find an iron ore mine
11:26:29  <Terkhen> at the smallmap
11:26:33  <planetmaker> can you send me your processed NFO (sprites/firs.nfo)? I'm using r18684)
11:26:58  <andythenorth> I'll pm it through the forum?
11:27:02  <planetmaker> ok
11:27:10  <Terkhen> what about a button at the smallmap to quickly switch from green to another heightmap? I'd still need to find a complete range of colours for the alternate heightmap...
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11:28:07  <Alberth> it sounds like an ad-hoc solution
11:28:08  <andythenorth> Terkhen: I think that would be perfect.
11:28:21  <andythenorth> 'sensible defaults' :)
11:28:35  <andythenorth> planetmaker: pm sent
11:28:40  <planetmaker> ty
11:29:31  <andythenorth> Terkhen: try 16-23 :)   The green heightmap only uses 7 colours according to Alberth's palette.
11:29:59  <andythenorth> just double them up (2 entries the same) :)
11:30:13  <Alberth> Terkhen: wouldn't you get the same effect by using the 'show height' button, and replacing the plain green colour with another one?
11:30:27  <Alberth> andythenorth: yes, they are dithered
11:30:35  <andythenorth> the dithering looks good
11:30:39  <andythenorth> it's needed
11:31:05  <Alberth> I don't like the vertical stripy effect
11:31:38  <Terkhen> Alberth: that would be enough
11:32:17  <Terkhen> I'm going to try both options
11:32:27  <andythenorth> Alberth: vertical stripes makes it look 'technical' and kind of cool
11:32:41  <andythenorth> we used to stripe web page backgrounds like that 'back in the day'
11:32:56  <Alberth> oh, the '95 look :)
11:35:01  <Noldo> hmm, I can find Iron ore mines, but it takes some concentration
11:35:31  <Noldo> my r-g blindness is somewhat mild though
11:35:52  <Terkhen> mine too, but it is still a pain to search for them
11:36:48  <planetmaker> andythenorth: can you send me a savegame where it doesn't work and the (compiled) newgrfs which it loads?
11:37:12  <planetmaker> the actual tars / grfs from your data dir of that game? Not from your dev / repo dirs?
11:37:17  <planetmaker> I really fail to reproduce it.
11:37:30  <andythenorth> planetmaker: (back in 10 mins)
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11:46:22  <Terkhen> I did not know about dithering, the gray heightmap looks now really good... I could add a configuration option that would let the user select between "green", "gray" and probably other colours
11:46:37  <Terkhen> it would affect both the heightmap and the normal ground colour
11:47:51  <planetmaker> hm, the diff tells me you use the same compatibility code indeed...
11:48:58  <Noldo> hmm, I wonder why openttd won't exit when I select quit from the menu and then yes
11:49:10  <andythenorth> planetmaker: sent you the grfs
11:49:25  <planetmaker> thx. Also savegame?
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11:49:42  <andythenorth> I'll make one
11:49:55  <andythenorth> FIRS just disables when I start a new game
11:51:27  <andythenorth> planetmaker: sent
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11:53:26  <planetmaker> ah, you also set a FIRS parameter!
11:53:55  <andythenorth> planetmaker: still disabled without that param set
11:54:44  <andythenorth> I've cleared all params and have the same issue.  want the save?
11:55:07  <planetmaker> yes
11:55:13  <Terkhen>
11:55:54  <andythenorth> planetmaker: sent
11:56:01  <andythenorth> afk for a bit
11:56:06  <andythenorth> Terkhen: looks nice :D
11:56:35  <Yexo> Terkhen: is the last screenshot a flat map or just all heights are the same grey?
11:56:56  <Terkhen> a screenshot with height turned off
11:57:11  <andythenorth> Terkhen: maybe brown would show better on 128-135
11:57:28  <andythenorth> just a thought :D
12:02:34  <Terkhen> I'll try it too... for now I'm going to code this as a configurable option... I'll need to be able to change between colours easily to test properly
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12:08:58  <luk3Z> hello
12:10:29  <luk3Z> I have question to someone who is developer
12:10:47  <planetmaker> andythenorth: please push your changes r416...r419(M)
12:11:03  <planetmaker> I get the error with your grf, but not with the one I can compile / install
12:11:12  <Yexo> luk3Z: as long as you don't ask your real question you won't get an answer to that
12:11:45  <Alberth> not to mention there are lots of different devlopers here
12:12:06  <planetmaker> which is... strange
12:12:31  <Alberth> files are the same?
12:12:40  <Alberth> cmp file1 file2
12:12:43  <luk3Z> it is possible to add variable taxes/cost for building/maintence constructons depend on your city rating ?
12:13:01  <peter1138> almost anything is possible
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12:13:29  <heffer> luk3Z, i think it would be best if you opened a ticket in the bugtracker, then all the developers can look into it
12:13:45  <luk3Z> and 2nd one: have someone created "traffic" mini map already ?
12:13:47  <Yexo> heffer: no, asking here is fine
12:13:56  <Alberth> I would suggest to post it to the suggestions forum :)
12:14:04  <Yexo> what do you mean with a traffic minimap?
12:14:05  <dragonhorseboy> traffic?
12:14:15  <Alberth> traffic density perhaps?
12:14:21  <heffer> oh i see. the way i use to do this in other Open Source project is to file a bug
12:14:33  <heffer> so the forum is preferred then?
12:14:51  <Yexo> heffer: posting a feature request at the bug tracker is fine, but only if you have a clearly defined feature
12:15:00  <luk3Z> "busy lines" I saw lately grf and grass on threes, so dose it mean that some parameters can indicate traffic on the cracks ?
12:15:01  <Alberth> bug tracker is for the more mature issues
12:15:05  <Yexo> posting it on the forum can help get your idea discussed
12:15:20  <Yexo> no luckz
12:15:30  <Yexo> the grass on tracks grf needs a custom patch to work
12:15:40  <Yexo> and I think it's pretty old
12:15:58  <luk3Z> *grass on the tracks sorry for mistajke
12:16:06  <Alberth> luk3Z: that data is not generated by the program
12:16:11  <dragonhorseboy> yexo I think a better idea might be from one of the patch that was used in the last mini-in build...
12:16:43  <dragonhorseboy> it could tell you how many trains had passed over one piece of rail as I think I recall .. you could simply take that and add to the code so very few trains = time to rust the rails
12:16:58  <Yexo> dragonhorseboy: mini-in = very old
12:17:07  <Yexo> so patches from that don't apply to trunk normally
12:17:07  <dragonhorseboy> yexo..but the features aren't
12:17:20  <dragonhorseboy> and I still have to even see half of the good ones even being actually used yet
12:18:08  <Yexo> true, adding a train counter to waypoints/stations has been discussed some time ago, but I can't remember the details
12:18:13  <luk3Z> I read changelog for 1.0.0b now and I thinking about rerplace OTTD 0.7.5 to 1.0.0b + some sets and start playing/testing
12:18:57  <Yexo> luk3Z: in that case you can update as well to a nightly, since a beta is nothing more then a snapshot from trunk (like a nightly)
12:19:10  <Yexo> and the latest nightly has several bugfixes not in 1.0.0-beta1
12:19:35  <luk3Z> ok thanks for advice I download it soon
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12:22:44  <dragonhorseboy> yexo admittly I do recall some of the features added in were only partially completed and/or just had buggy coding in first place anyway
12:23:25  <dragonhorseboy> one thing that didn't work out so well was diagonal road crossings .. sure it worked fine if the roads were done manually but come to a town and for some reason a lot of the town-built road tiles ended up 90 degree from the actual roads themself (alak not connected)
12:23:56  <Yexo> I never played mini-in, so I can't really comment on that
12:24:24  <dragonhorseboy> well .. it would had been nice for these moments of where there's a lot of slow diagonal rails :P
12:24:39  <peter1138> alak?
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12:26:32  <dragonhorseboy> yexo one thing I did wonder about tho .. are they ever going to add more airport types again eventually? (especially as I recall pikka drew up a shoreline airport for water-landing planes to use and at least one of the av8 plane had hulls on it)
12:27:31  <Yexo> dragonhorseboy: yes, it's work ni progess by me currently to allow newgrf airports
12:27:42  <dragonhorseboy> nice
12:28:16  <dragonhorseboy> yexo I've always sometimes found the current airports a bit limited for what I actually wanted to do
12:28:42  <dragonhorseboy> and a few times because City was too squarey-big I've had to use the commuter airport and not be able to safely send eg A780's or so there
12:28:56  <dragonhorseboy> so hmm I guess it figured :)
12:29:20  <Yexo> forum post
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12:29:59  <Yexo> no real progress the last 2 months, but it's certainly not dead
12:30:46  <dragonhorseboy> yexo btw peter there above ^^ was the one who did freight train multiplier as it would seem
12:30:54  <dragonhorseboy> its in the mini-in features list
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12:32:07  <Alberth> luk3Z: traffic density question: suppose I have a single track with 10 tile blocks. There are 7 trains / month using it. Next to it, there is another single track with 5 tile blocks, used by 8 trains / month. Which one is more busy?
12:32:21  <Alberth> I think the 10 tile track
12:32:26  <Eoin> 5?
12:32:29  <Eoin> i would say
12:32:48  <Eoin> but im not awake :D
12:33:14  <Alberth> trains at both tracks have equal length
12:33:39  <Alberth> then the 5 tile track can push about twice as many trains / month I think
12:34:17  <Alberth> ie the 10 tile tile track runs into its limits earlier
12:34:33  <dragonhorseboy> oh yeah yexo I still dunno if it was a nice feature or not but in mini-in there was a subsidiaries where you could eg have company #1 which 'runs' company #2 and company #3 (finances are as if they were independent instead) and could easily merge them back into company #1 any time freely
12:34:39  <Alberth> so how do you measure traffic density?
12:34:59  <dragonhorseboy> or think of it a bit like owning SNCF and also 'managing' FRET .. and if things gets really bad you can merge both back into just SNCF itself
12:35:50  <luk3Z> sorry I read changelog I think it should be sum all tracks div by all trains in month
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12:36:19  <Alberth> tracks are equally long
12:37:13  <Alberth> which would point you to the 5 tile track, thus the wrong one, as I see it
12:37:34  <luk3Z> traffic for 1 tile (monthly): number of trains; traffic for all track (monthly): sum for all tiles/number of tiles
12:38:16  <luk3Z> wait I'll write it more clear
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12:38:56  <Alberth> you agree the 10 tile track is more busy?
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12:40:10  <dennis> hey guys, i've seen 0.7.5C, where to download it?
12:40:12  <luk3Z> TRA_1TIL [traffic for 1 tile (monthly)]: number of trains on 1 tile; TRA_ALL_TIL [traffic for all track (monthly)]: TRA_1TIL+TRA_nTIL+TRA_n+1TIL/x*TRA_nTIL
12:40:57  <dragonhorseboy> yexo did I lost you or no?
12:41:05  <Rubidium> dennis: that is a really good question, sadly enough I've got no idea
12:41:15  <Yexo> dragonhorseboy: no, sorry, was busy with coding
12:41:21  <luk3Z> 10 are busiest becouse of lenght...
12:41:29  <dragonhorseboy> yexo ok no problem ;)
12:41:31  <Yexo> I read about that subsidiaries thing, don't see a reason for it myself
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12:43:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r18696 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_tile.cpp ai_tile.hpp): -Fix [FS#3404]: AITile::IsCoastTile returned false for coast tiles with trees on them.
12:43:20  <peter1138> C? heh
12:44:25  <Yexo> dennis: the real question is, where did you see that version?
12:44:26  <dragonhorseboy> yexo well I did keep wishing for a similiar feature tho..especially when coupled with IS2.1.1 ... managing seperate specialized companies that don't have any overlap except for forwarding excessive profits to where its having problems being in the red
12:45:15  <Alberth> luk3Z: number of trains at 1 tile already fails, doesn't it?
12:45:19  <dennis> luukland
12:45:20  <dragonhorseboy> to our own I guess (is it a wonder I named my last two companies after eg LNER+BR etc because of how these should had been splitted companies in first place but I was too lazy to try take up two passworded company slots
12:45:24  <dennis> server 4 i think
12:45:31  <luk3Z> yes but it is example
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12:46:49  <Alberth> luk3Z: the problem is that you need a good formula to compute density, otherwise you point user to the wrong tracks, and they spend their earnings upgrading the wrong track
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12:47:09  <luk3Z> TRA_1TIL is good how you calculate no of trains in 1 tile /
12:47:35  <dragonhorseboy> I just had to check for IS threads and hmm meh this turned up. I really like the maxsize and minspeed ideas :/
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12:47:54  <Eoin> wait
12:47:55  <dragonhorseboy> no cluttered mainlines because someone failed to check before sending several slow trains in
12:48:02  <Eoin> does that airport actually function Yexo
12:48:12  <Eoin> the diagonal one in newairport
12:48:21  <Yexo> yes Eoin
12:48:23  <luk3Z> TRA_ALL_TIL is wrong I try improve it on the paper ;)
12:48:34  <Eoin> oohoo
12:48:35  <Eoin> shiny
12:48:48  <Alberth> luk3Z: sure, but since the length of both tracks is the same, your computation gives the wrong result
12:49:33  <Luukland> Ah yeah this 0.7.5C is mine :P
12:49:42  <Yexo> dragonhorseboy: minspeed doesn't work, because if the engine isn't powerfull enough it'll never reach full speed so it's still slower then minspeed
12:49:42  <Alberth> luk3Z: of course, then you only have to decide how to count density over tracks that split halfway
12:49:47  *** Hyronymus is now known as Hyr|afk
12:50:02  <luk3Z> you mean your example with trains or may equation ?
12:50:39  <Alberth> in the equation. You want correct result at all situations, right?
12:50:39  <dragonhorseboy> yexo well how about eg a line that is supposed to be for express freights so its set to eg 140km/h minimum and so that way the engines maybe can vary (up to 200km/h even) but noone can send in a slow 76km/h train to stuck up the flow
12:51:02  <luk3Z> Alberth: yes it is wrong anyway
12:51:06  <Alberth> luk3Z: my example was just to show that number of trains means little
12:51:08  <Yexo> dragonhorseboy: how about I send a very fast passengr engine (so low power) with several full coal wagons attached
12:51:18  <Yexo> it'll never reach it's max speed because it isn't powerfull enough
12:51:35  <luk3Z> Alberth: and we have to assume that shorter tracks will be less busy
12:51:41  <dragonhorseboy> yexo you're nuts if you're playing so badly anyway
12:51:42  <dragonhorseboy> ;)
12:52:20  <Yexo> dragonhorseboy: that option is a global option, so it doesn't work if you want fast trains on part of your tracks and slow trains are allowed on other parts
12:52:28  <luk3Z> Alberth: and we should skip all breaking down for now
12:52:32  <Eoin> i really like the idea
12:52:37  <dragonhorseboy> yexo well it does if you add in subsidiaries
12:52:38  <Yexo> so what you really need is something like restrictie signalling what ttdpatch has
12:52:54  <Yexo> or waypoint restrictions, there have been a few patches for that in the development forum
12:53:15  <Alberth> luk3Z: shorter blocks may be more busy. If I send 1 train /month over the 10 tile track, the 5 tile track is more busy
12:53:21  <luk3Z> Alberth: this equation is like proov of concept ;)
12:53:41  <Alberth> it is just the first part of the puzzle
12:55:28  <luk3Z> Alberth: yeah we have to think about number of trains and some cases with other tracks from other stations and other trains
12:55:59  <Alberth> then you must try to come up with an idiotic situation that may happen, and the equation should still give the correct result. If you try that for a while, and cannot incent a situation where the equation breaks, you 've got the first step done for the non-break down case.
12:56:01  <dragonhorseboy> company A-1: 6 tiles platforms max, high charges, 150km/h minimum ... company A-2: no max platform, 50km/h minimum (eg to avoid the snail shunter in ukrs etc) .. company A-3: low charges, no platform/speed restrictions
12:56:15  <Alberth> s/incent/invent/
12:56:27  <luk3Z> Alberth: I propose for 1st equation make 2 points A - > B and x trains only
12:56:36  <dragonhorseboy> or setups along that line ;) (A-1 is express and A-2 is freights for the footnote .. A-3 is just basically mixed stuffs or old lines)
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12:57:43  <Yexo> dragonhorseboy: that'd work yes, but then subsidiaries is really a requirement
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12:58:54  <dragonhorseboy> well thats about all I had to say on that ;)
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13:03:26  <luk3Z> Alberth: how minimap can display density of traffic? can it show 1 tile as few pixels on this minimap or something else ?
13:04:25  <Alberth> no idea, but you are 10 steps ahead or so :)
13:04:38  <Alberth> current smallmap uses 4 pixels for each tile
13:04:40  <luk3Z> Alberth: or maybe changing color of the tracks via switch on the normal map mode ?
13:04:52  * PeterT is suprised at how fast MSVC compiles on Windows XP
13:05:16  <luk3Z> Alberth: or even color of the fence :P
13:05:21  <Alberth> oh, 2 tiles for the tracks at a tile. Different colours would be an option
13:05:29  <Rubidium> it's still way slower than gcc on Linux, minus cross-compiling
13:05:43  <Alberth> see eg the company owners mode
13:06:38  <Terkhen> PeterT: I noticed a slight speedup when I finally moved from Vista to 7, sadly it is still too slow
13:06:43  *** DarkED [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:06:45  <luk3Z> Alberth: I remember it and it looks pretty nice and lear
13:07:02  <PeterT> Terkhen: Vista, I think, is just slow on it's own
13:07:10  <PeterT> I just compiled the 32bpp patch in 3 minutes
13:07:11  <Alberth> luk3Z: first you need a proper formula. then you need to implement it in the game. then you need to have it put into trunk.
13:07:23  <PeterT> that includes patching, setting up directx dirs, compilin
13:07:40  <luk3Z> Alberth: I'm working on it on the paper
13:07:43  <PeterT> true that it is "Creating the browse information file" ATM
13:08:08  <Terkhen> I measure MSVC compiling times on how sleepy I get waiting for it to finish
13:08:24  <luk3Z> Alberth: can we treat 2 tiles as 1 tile on the minimap ? it can be more readable
13:08:45  <Alberth> luk3Z: ok :)    you are already further than anybody else I think. They are all just counting trains.
13:09:14  <luk3Z> Alberth: so we have take average form 2 tiles against from 1 tile and it can be mor clear
13:09:33  <Alberth> luk3Z: zoom-out would be nice too. You probably need something like 10-15 tiles put into 4 pixels for displaying 2048x2048 maps
13:10:11  <luk3Z> Alberth: I'm working on equation only - remember
13:10:12  <Alberth> number of colours is very limited
13:10:40  <Alberth> I know
13:11:22  <Terkhen> number of colours is very limited <-- I can attest this
13:12:09  <luk3Z> anyway does soembody know how company owner tracks are displayed on the minimap? If this is checking all tiles 1 by 1 ?
13:12:18  <Alberth> the price to pay for that '95 look :)
13:12:26  <Yexo> yes luk3Z
13:12:27  <Alberth> yes
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13:15:00  <luk3Z> Alberth: how we recognize traffic e.g. for constant numbers or via by variable number of density
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13:16:42  <luk3Z> Alberth: if we use max_ as var we can showing traffic more precisely I think
13:17:13  <Alberth> first do the formula, then worry about how to implement I'd say
13:19:06  <luk3Z> Alberth: I working on example with stations A->B and C->D and common 2 tile tracks now
13:19:10  <Alberth> there are limitations to what you can collect, but better worry about that later.
13:19:43  <Alberth> I don't need an update every 5 minutes :)
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13:23:27  <luk3Z> Alberth: ok equation for simple A->B is: TIL1+TILn+TILn+1/n (TIL - number of trains per month on 1 tile; n - number of tiles) for all simple track A->B
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13:24:08  <PeterT> does anyone know at which revision the "-f" parameter was introduced?
13:27:46  <Alberth> find the file with the -f handler code, do svn blame on that file, look at the revision shown before that code, check with svn log whether that is the right revision.
13:28:10  <Alberth> (ie, no, but you can find out)
13:28:38  <PeterT> the only thing I don't know how to do is to find the -f handler code
13:28:47  <Yexo> it's in openttd.cpp
13:28:50  <PeterT> ok
13:28:52  <luk3Z> does any counter exist in OTTD ofr trains on the tile ?
13:28:58  <Yexo> no
13:29:04  <PeterT> thanks Yexo
13:29:20  <Yexo> luk3Z: and it can't be added easily because the map array is full
13:30:08  <luk3Z> Yexo: but it is possible to add something what count traffic on the tracks ?
13:30:38  <Yexo> I didn't say it was impssible, just hard because the map array is full
13:30:48  <Yexo> so you'd need to either add external storage or enlarge the map array
13:31:01  <Yexo> and personally I don't find this important enough to enlarge the map array
13:31:48  <PeterT> well, I found the author
13:31:53  <PeterT> TrueLight
13:32:03  <PeterT> r1154 apparently
13:32:16  <luk3Z> anybody know how grf grass on the track working and who is the author  ?
13:32:31  <Yexo> search the development forum and you need a patch besides that grf
13:32:38  <Yexo> that grf doesn't work without the patch
13:33:26  <PeterT> luk3Z:
13:34:05  <luk3Z> PeterT: thanks !
13:34:08  <PeterT> Alberth: <-- Found it
13:34:13  <PeterT> Don't thank me, thank yexo
13:34:27  <PeterT> he's the one who gave you real advice
13:35:02  <luk3Z> PeterT: thx for link and of course for advices
13:35:12  <Yexo> luk3Z: for future reference: this search gives that topic as first result
13:36:00  <Alberth> r1154 is like back in the stone age :)
13:36:08  <PeterT> yeah, I know
13:36:20  <luk3Z> Yexo: I just thought that author will be online on IRC but I was wrong
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13:37:42  <Alberth> even if he was, he may not remember how it works
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13:39:14  <luk3Z> Alberth: right, anyway I abandon this project maybe someone else try to make something similar to this idea
13:43:51  <luk3Z> Alberth: I send priv msg to the author of "Grass growth on unused tracks" and maybe he share his code
13:44:50  <Alberth> you can try, but you can probably download it from the forums already
13:45:05  <Yexo> the code is available in the first post of the topic linked earlier
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13:45:24  <Alberth> ie there is most likely nothing more than what you can get already
13:45:59  <luk3Z> Yexo: you right I check it
13:52:02  <luk3Z> it looks quite interesting it even have future support for tunnels, neighbour checking it is more complex than  thought
13:54:55  <Terkhen> <-- what is the english name of colour #128
13:54:58  <Terkhen> ?
13:55:16  <Rubidium> yuck :)
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13:55:51  <Alberth> that seems a pretty unique name :D
13:56:07  <Terkhen> I like it
13:56:08  <Terkhen> :P
13:58:45  <Alberth> Unices commonly have a file like /usr/share/X11/rgb.txt  with a lot of colour names
14:00:14  <Rubidium> it doesn't seem to have a colour name
14:00:42  <Rubidium> it's somewhere between 'valhalla' and 'crescendo' I'd say
14:01:47  <frosch123> dark greyish violet :p
14:02:24  <Rubidium> hmm, actually.. the colour isn't what OpenTTD would give I think
14:02:24  *** Neon [] has joined #openttd
14:02:43  <planetmaker> [14:54]	<Terkhen> <-- what is the english name of colour #128 <-- I'd call it something like "midnight blue"
14:02:43  *** luk3Z [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:03:07  <Neon> Does anyone of you know how the duration of one ingame day is?
14:03:20  <planetmaker> 13.5 minutes per year
14:03:27  <Eoin> ^^
14:03:33  <Neon> Thanks.
14:03:44  *** sam_ch [] has joined #openttd
14:03:48  <planetmaker> 2.2s per day or so
14:03:55  <planetmaker> iirc
14:03:57  <Alberth> @calc 13.5 * 60 / 356
14:03:57  <DorpsGek> Alberth: 2.27528089888
14:04:06  <frosch123> why is that question asked so often?
14:04:08  <roboboy> is that dependant on your CPU speed?
14:04:17  <Terkhen> I'll put it as violet for now... once I see it working I'll ask for names again
14:04:18  <Rubidium> frosch123: because searching is difficult?
14:04:21  <planetmaker> oh, hello quack^Wfrosch123
14:04:52  <frosch123> well, i mean, why is that information of any interest?
14:05:00  <Alberth> roboboy: as long as you pull less than 100% single core cpu, no
14:05:05  <frosch123> moin pm :)
14:05:20  <Alberth> Neon: why do you want to know?
14:08:14  <dragonhorseboy> any of you ever played with the Denver & Rio Grande or WrightAI ais that can be downloaded from bananas?
14:08:43  <roboboy> I just remember people saying TTD used to be CPU speed dependant in terms of game time speed
14:09:05  <frosch123> dragonhorseboy: wrightai is not really meant to play against :)
14:09:18  <dragonhorseboy> frosch heh and why not? :P
14:09:35  <frosch123> it is a simple example ai for ai writers to start with
14:09:45  <Rubidium> because wrightai is merely a proof-of-concept AI; that shows the basics of an AI
14:10:19  <dragonhorseboy> well its been building so many used airports that I can't believe the goddamn AI is already earning a lot more than my two coal mine rail routes now :p
14:10:42  <andythenorth> hi frosch123
14:11:06  <dragonhorseboy> oh yeah one of the first mine I started with .. stupidly enough the D&RG ai also built there soon too .. talk about competition >_<
14:11:15  <dragonhorseboy> it was the one only biggest mine on map :P
14:12:26  <frosch123> hello andy :) how are the ponys?
14:12:57  <andythenorth> frosch123:
14:13:34  <andythenorth> I can't remember...that pony might exist already?
14:14:19  <dragonhorseboy> well I guess if AI development keeps up like this .. pretty soon we could have single AIs that would be almost as smart as basic human players :)
14:14:55  * andythenorth and I for one welcome our robot overlords
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14:15:18  <dragonhorseboy> hmmm yeah I could imagine.. an IS game with half human and half AI players
14:15:22  <dragonhorseboy> would be a bit chaotic lol
14:15:24  <frosch123> no, that pony is unavailable
14:15:35  <andythenorth> stupid pony
14:15:49  <andythenorth> I'll draw a landing pad I guess
14:17:01  <andythenorth> :D
14:17:01  <Mks> is it possible to make crossing bridges somehow?
14:17:13  <dragonhorseboy> mks..?
14:17:35  <Mks> well crossing bridges on diffrent levels
14:17:53  <dragonhorseboy> I thought you already could for several versions now
14:18:20  <Mks> ohh doesn't seem possible
14:18:26  <dragonhorseboy> hmm
14:18:44  <frosch123> you can only cross tunnels with the cheats
14:19:03  <Mks> well I mean more have one bridge higher up crossing over a lower bridge
14:19:20  <Mks> I mean its possible without cheat on tunnels to build like that
14:19:38  * andythenorth takes a pony outside and shoots it
14:20:08  <dragonhorseboy> mks personally I'm still waiting for the patch to finally be able to build a simple bridge (something that wouldn't engulf the house in many timber legs heh) across the roof of a house :S
14:20:16  <dragonhorseboy> or even ottd itself either way
14:20:23  <dragonhorseboy> heh
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14:20:50  <Mks> that would be nice as well if it was possibel
14:20:53  <Mks> possible
14:21:14  <Mks> I want diagonal tunnels and bridges as well :)
14:21:16  <dragonhorseboy> yeah mks... more than often there's only one or two houses in the way of being able to finish a deep bridge crossing in arctic maps
14:21:19  <dragonhorseboy> :/
14:21:54  <Mks> well one thing also signaling on bridges and tunnels that would really help
14:22:05  <dragonhorseboy> mks ... heh
14:22:14  <Mks> I belive there is a patch for that but works a bit odd
14:22:16  <dragonhorseboy> and mks diagonal tunnels would be a bit too difficult to enact onto the map
14:22:40  <dragonhorseboy> especially with regarding to tunnel portals as well
14:22:44  <peter1138> freeform bendy tunnels and bridges!
14:23:13  <Alberth> winding loops the easy way
14:23:25  <roboboy> We need locomoptions map array behind OpenTTD
14:23:32  <peter1138> hmm, might as well play locomotion
14:23:33  <peter1138> hehe
14:23:37  <roboboy> *locomotion
14:23:43  <Mks> I got locomotion
14:23:48  <Mks> and its no good
14:23:54  <Mks> its really bad building ui
14:24:08  <roboboy> its good and bads
14:24:21  <Mks> well openttd is better
14:24:35  <roboboy> I find it too hard at the begining
14:24:38  <Mks> I do like the better looking trains and stuff in locomotion
14:24:44  <roboboy> cost wise
14:24:45  <Mks> and maps are silly small
14:24:53  * dragonhorseboy still plays rct once in a while (corkscrew addon as well)
14:25:10  <Mks> and really building and advanced railnetwork is really hard in locomotion if its even possible
14:25:28  <roboboy> but ive heard it suffers the same poblem (O)TTD(P) suffers late in the game
14:25:48  <Mks> what do you mean?
14:26:29  <roboboy> Too much mooneyz
14:26:48  <Mks> ahh well
14:26:57  <Mks> not really a problem :P
14:27:23  <Mks> and really if you build a sucessfull company irl you would eventually end up with alot of money as well
14:27:28  <dragonhorseboy> personally I still think cargo handling is best done in RT2
14:27:49  <Luukland> tooo much money? You should try hard game with competition then :P
14:29:01  <dragonhorseboy> luuk...btw check dbsetxl .. it more or less use real life pricing (except for ICEs which would had been way too expensive for gameplay) .. eg if you started late in 90's .. even with the max loan you only can just about afford one moderate diesel locomotive alone on a short rail line
14:29:24  <peter1138> would have :s
14:29:34  <dragonhorseboy> even if you start early eg in 30's and play it nonstop .. it still doesn't really leave you with much cash even 70 years later
14:30:05  <peter1138> depends how you play
14:30:14  <peter1138> it is easy to end up with loads of money even with dbsetxl
14:30:17  <Terkhen> finished:
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14:30:44  <Terkhen> uploaded with an incorrect name, though
14:30:49  <dragonhorseboy> peter well I've played it many times starting in many different manners .. and still never can afford a fleet of ICEs right off in 2010 even if I tried :)
14:30:57  <dragonhorseboy> to our own I guess
14:31:07  <andythenorth> Terkhen: try it with FIRS :)
14:31:12  <Terkhen> okay
14:31:20  <dragonhorseboy> hey andythenorth .. was wondering when you'll be online again :P
14:31:32  <Luukland> Hmmm dbsetxl, brakes the balance between trains and road vehicles no?
14:31:42  <andythenorth> dragonhorseboy later today...I'm going out now
14:32:07  <dragonhorseboy> ah ok
14:32:15  <andythenorth> bye!
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14:32:17  <dragonhorseboy> anydthenorth btw I downloaded the yesterday nightly of FIRS and...
14:32:24  <dragonhorseboy> ..and...oh crap
14:32:27  <dragonhorseboy> :S
14:32:31  <Luukland> Whahaha :P
14:32:36  * dragonhorseboy whacks luukland
14:32:37  <planetmaker> frosch123: I have a newgrf puzzle which I don't understand concerning disabling of FIRS
14:32:38  <dragonhorseboy> >_<
14:33:30  <SpComb> dbsetxl's costs depend on your difficulty settings
14:33:30  <planetmaker> it works for me as intended but not for andythenorth. I sent you the relevant files via tt-forums message. If you have time somewhen, it'd be nice, if you could tell me whether I miss something really obvious
14:33:45  <SpComb> I'm playing with the wrong difficulty settings because I have 1.5 billion EUR in 1964
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14:34:28  <peter1138> yeha, you should be playing with DEM :)
14:34:34  <peter1138> DM?
14:34:59  <planetmaker> the only real difference between his and my nfo is the line endings. He uses windows style, I use unix style. A diff after having converted line endings is pretty boring.
14:35:23  <dragonhorseboy> yeah I always set it to DEM for dbsetxl .. $ for nars/2cc ... pounds for ukrs
14:35:27  <peter1138> diff should be able to ignore line endings
14:35:34  <peter1138> or any whitespace change
14:35:39  <dragonhorseboy> and whoever thought it was a good idea to use wrong side signals with nars .. well .. curse them :S
14:35:43  <Alberth> -w option afaik
14:41:20  <planetmaker> peter1138: hm, well... I didn't check for options. But I guess, I should. But anyway, a dos2unix on one file resulted in the same
14:42:42  * dragonhorseboy pokes eoin
14:44:43  * roboboy should sleep
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14:50:55  <Rubidium> hahah... clocks going from 2009 to 2016... and people not knowing what's the cause :)
14:51:11  <planetmaker> he?
14:51:13  <Luukland> black holes!
14:51:23  <dragonhorseboy> 7 years leap? something's odd
14:51:24  <Rubidium>
14:51:38  <KingJ> After Y2K went by without much fanfare, it seems Y2K10 is causing lots of problems
14:52:47  <planetmaker> lool
14:53:04  * dragonhorseboy wonders what kingj was really thinking
14:55:21  <Rubidium> must say using a nibble to store a decimal number is ingenious
14:55:36  <Rubidium> it makes hex human readable
14:58:11  <Alberth> all LCD clocks work in that way
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14:59:07  <Alberth> but it gives a nice y10k problem :)
14:59:38  <Alberth> oh, 'y10' even
14:59:47  <dragonhorseboy> year 2100 anyone?
15:00:50  <planetmaker> dragonhorseboy: rather y2038:
15:01:12  <Rubidium> planetmaker: y2038 is so old already... like dozens of y2038 bugs have been hit
15:01:44  <dragonhorseboy> planetmakers are coders really that lazy? -_-
15:04:15  <Mks> just use 64 bit programs and it doesn't matter anymore
15:04:49  <dragonhorseboy> mks..or use other time keeping codes instead
15:05:08  * dragonhorseboy could set to 1960, 2000, or 2140 without any problem here
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15:07:01  <dragonhorseboy> hmm .. eoin said brb at 8:56 and its 10:06 now .. blah
15:08:50  <dragonhorseboy> oh well what to do now
15:08:54  <planetmaker> he prefers to be back not wrongly
15:09:39  <dragonhorseboy> lol
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15:12:24  * dragonhorseboy puts chrill in freezer
15:12:25  <dragonhorseboy> :)
15:12:31  <Chrill> OH NO
15:12:38  <Chrill> What a greeting
15:12:56  <dragonhorseboy> heh sorry ;)
15:13:02  <Chrill> I feel assaulted
15:14:32  <dragonhorseboy> beside that how're you?
15:14:42  * PeterT puts dragonhorseboy in Chrill
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15:15:32  <Luukland> Now that is ugly
15:15:44  * Luukland gets dragonhorseboy out of Chrill
15:16:07  <Luukland> As good as new :)
15:16:09  * roboboy puts peanut in freezer
15:16:37  * peanut feels salted
15:17:10  <peanut> bye bye
15:17:14  *** peanut [] has quit []
15:17:17  <dragonhorseboy> :) luukland
15:18:53  <Luukland> Hmmm 0.7.5C is really working, w00t, didn't expect that
15:18:55  * roboboy chill chrill and waits for the loud earsplitting Chrill
15:19:16  <dragonhorseboy> :)
15:20:02  <roboboy> grr
15:21:03  *** helb [~helb@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:21:44  <Luukland> Is a "openttd stopped working error" without the emergency save screen, a bug inside OTTD or just a windows error
15:24:13  <roboboy> gnight if noone replys by the time my screensaver comes on
15:26:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18697 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3471]: crash when scrolling to an item removed by filtering in the 'add NewGRF window'
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15:28:12  <PeterT> 0.7.5c?
15:28:19  <PeterT> yorick! hello
15:28:23  <yorick> hi
15:28:57  <Luukland> 0.7.5C
15:29:01  <Luukland> with capital C please
15:29:20  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: how is your "improvement" of the default settings going?
15:29:41  <PeterT> Luukland: But what does the capital "C" for?
15:29:49  <PeterT> *what is the capital C for?
15:30:05  <PeterT> pfft, I was asking two questions at once
15:30:20  <dragonhorseboy> heh
15:30:35  <Luukland> C = Competition :)
15:31:47  <dragonhorseboy> what kind of competition? :P
15:32:07  <PeterT> can I have a binary? or a patch? Luukland
15:32:31  <Luukland> Sure
15:32:36  <Luukland> You may have both
15:33:37  <dragonhorseboy> does C already have IS? heh..sounds unlikely
15:33:53  <PeterT> Luukland: I can make you a Linux 32-bit binary
15:33:54  <planetmaker> Rubidium: <-- OOM error
15:34:21  <Luukland> C is only Competition
15:34:25  <Luukland> no other patches
15:34:33  <Luukland> PeterT, I would be glad if you could :)
15:34:38  <dragonhorseboy> so what kind of competition then?
15:34:39  <PeterT> Ok, will later
15:34:40  <Rubidium> planetmaker: bah... stupid track
15:34:43  <dragonhorseboy> ;)
15:34:52  <Luukland> Read the changelog for the changes
15:35:21  <PeterT> Luukland: You can't do that, you have to include a COPYING file with your build
15:35:22  <Ammler> he, we aren't the only ones with memory issues :-)
15:35:34  <dragonhorseboy> hey ammler :)
15:35:44  <Luukland> Copying is at the page itselve
15:35:52  <Luukland> Isn't that sufficient?
15:36:00  <Rubidium> Ammler: well, tracd seems to know when we don't like it to use more memory and then stops using more
15:36:06  <Ammler> Luukland: is that patch compatible to the official 0.7.5?
15:36:19  <Rubidium> so I started giving it as little memory as possible, but apparantly this was too little
15:36:31  <Luukland> Yes
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15:36:56  <Ammler> so like a hybrid, cool idea :-)
15:37:09  <Luukland> Hmmm, maybe you misunderstood then
15:37:14  <Luukland> Or maybe I misunderstood
15:37:24  <Luukland> 0.7.5 + patch - 0.7.5C
15:37:30  <Luukland> * =
15:37:33  <dragonhorseboy> ammler you know how we were talking about the lumber mill tree clearing thing before?
15:37:40  <PeterT> Luukland: If compiling with MSYS, try using ./configure --revision=0.7.5
15:37:49  <Ammler> well, if you patch 0.7.5, it might be able to join 0.7.5 servers, why else do yo patch it?
15:37:50  <Rubidium> so it's not the server that's out of memory, just the server not giving more memory to tracd
15:37:54  <Ammler> else you should patch trunk
15:38:34  <Luukland> The patch messes with station ratings and such, which means it is a whole new version
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15:38:45  <Luukland> if used on the old versions => big dc's
15:39:10  <planetmaker> well... then indeed: why patch a stable release and not trunk?
15:39:27  <Luukland> uuhh, it has some floats in it :P
15:39:30  <planetmaker> it's work ill spent to make game play changes to stables
15:39:45  <Luukland> and it is one big mess :P
15:39:52  <roboboy> maybe more people play stable on multiplayer?
15:40:02  <Ammler> roboboy: you can't with it.
15:40:18  <roboboy> hm
15:40:26  <planetmaker> the whole point why it's useless ;-)
15:40:38  <Luukland> PeterT? Why the hell should I use --revision=0.7.5?
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15:41:02  <Ammler> if you patch stable branch it's gone unstable like trunk, just in a going abandon branch.
15:41:40  <dragonhorseboy> ammler either way one of the thing I was thinking about was what if other industries could expand out or collapse inward in similar manner and it finally struck me...
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15:42:13  <Ammler> dragonhorseboy: those parts are hardcoded
15:42:19  <Ammler> like the farm fields
15:42:43  <dragonhorseboy> what if oilwells started with just the main shed and one or few pumps then as the average reserve-remaining size is determined eg each janurary or so it could add or remove dummy pumps on free tiles?
15:43:07  <dragonhorseboy> heh hm well it was a random thought
15:43:08  <dragonhorseboy> :)
15:43:34  <Ammler> hmm, well, you might be able to change the layout of industries with Action2, dunno?
15:43:56  <Rubidium> and then in the 1990s the reserve-remaining size drops significantly because the oil companies have been misrepresenting the reserves
15:44:04  <dragonhorseboy> eg a 30K reserve oilwell would only have its starter three pumps but one with eventual 1.4M reserve would have a handful of pumps around (being mindful of occupied tiles)
15:45:02  <dragonhorseboy> ammler I did always wondered why the default farms didn't even have any grassy pens with cows grazing around at random
15:45:02  <Ammler> but that is something for the grf pros, I can just Action0 :-)
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15:46:20  <Ammler> Action2 is something like it's own nfo level...
15:46:54  <Ammler> Var*
15:49:53  <dragonhorseboy> hm well I'm only actually bothered with trying to figure out train-related stuffs for now (re upcoming sprites of mine) ... I'll just rather use FIRS till further note
15:50:53  <Mks> ohh FIRS is nice
15:51:25  <dragonhorseboy> does have its own problems tho
15:51:37  <dragonhorseboy> but hm well its a bit more useable than default industries or any other grfs so go figure
15:51:44  <scrooch> hi.. im new and i'd like to know what you think of my post about economics at
15:53:25  <dragonhorseboy> mks mind pm?
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15:54:56  <scrooch> Yexo: hey :)
15:55:04  <Yexo> hello scrooch
15:55:48  <ZirconiumX> hi scrooch
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16:10:24  <PeterT> <Luukland> PeterT? Why the hell should I use --revision=0.7.5? <-- So people on 0.7.5 can join your servers....
16:10:31  *** Hirundo [] has joined #openttd
16:10:33  <PeterT> Hello scrooch
16:10:40  *** Ammler [] has joined #openttd
16:10:49  <planetmaker> please follow the discussion, PeterT. It'd be a bad advice in this case
16:11:03  <PeterT> I'm reading it now...
16:11:46  <Luukland> PeterT, like I said, if someone from 0.7.5 joins, then they get an error
16:12:02  <Luukland> We use a totally new calculation, which means we can't use 0.7.5
16:12:15  <PeterT> so then, why not use a nightly instead?
16:12:27  <Luukland> Whahahah, nightlies, you are funny
16:12:45  <Luukland> that code is future code, it would need massive work to get that working
16:12:58  <PeterT> ok, ok
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16:19:11  <planetmaker> Luukland: but you needed the same work for this. So what's the point?
16:19:31  <planetmaker> and it's not like the calculation concerning stations changed
16:25:04  <Luukland> HuH?
16:25:28  <Luukland> This patch is old, I found it in a garbage can
16:25:51  <Luukland> or got it from a dark fellow in a underground parking area
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16:50:11  * andythenorth has been in Chipping Sodbury
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16:51:04  <andythenorth> ^^ Chipping Sodbury isn't that bad ;)
16:51:11  <andythenorth> no need to leave :P
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16:58:25  <frosch123> planetmaker: loading andythenorth' save and using the newgrfs with the matching md5sums i get fatal error "E01: Incompatible set: Consult FIRS ReadMe."
16:59:08  <planetmaker> and if you create a game with exactly those yourself, frosch123 ?
16:59:15  <frosch123> so, what is intendet? is nars2 compatible? or not?
16:59:22  <planetmaker> it is compatible
17:00:54  <frosch123> oh, ok, then it does not disable
17:01:05  <planetmaker> yeah. Same here
17:02:00  <planetmaker> and I have absolutely no clue what is going on there :S
17:02:37  <frosch123> hmm, the filenames from the newgrf gui and from gamelog mismatch :s
17:03:06  <planetmaker> :-O
17:03:33  <Terkhen> I was going to try FIRS and I get the same error
17:03:55  <planetmaker> disabling in the presence of FIRS, Terkhen ?
17:04:00  <andythenorth> Terkhen: that's useful info
17:04:06  <planetmaker> yes, indeed.
17:04:08  *** dennis [] has quit [Quit: dennis]
17:04:16  <planetmaker> And getting more weired by the minute
17:04:21  <Terkhen> I don't know, let me check what happened
17:04:34  <PeterT> Luukland: Did you do something weird with your patch? I get failed hunks applying it to clean 0.7.5 source?
17:05:06  <andythenorth> Terkhen:  this?
17:05:41  <Terkhen> exactly that one, just after game started
17:05:51  <Terkhen> my FISH is not disabled, though
17:06:02  <andythenorth> ignore FISH, I should have left it out of my grf list :)
17:06:37  <Terkhen> I removed all other GRFs, started a new game and the error is gone
17:09:41  <Terkhen> my fault, of course FIRS is incompatible with station's name from nearby industries
17:10:11  <andythenorth> really?
17:10:13  <andythenorth> hmmm
17:11:36  <Terkhen> I only get the incompatible set error with that NewGRF active... I suppose it is
17:11:46  <andythenorth> yes you're right, I just checked the source
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17:13:15  <andythenorth> planetmaker: Terkhen's error message isn't a bug, it's correct
17:13:49  <dragonhorseboy> dumb question but any of you know if snowlines COULD be added to a tropical map?
17:13:51  <planetmaker> ah, good to know :-)
17:14:00  <planetmaker> not in OpenTTD, dragonhorseboy
17:14:06  <welshdragon> < any ideas?
17:14:14  <dragonhorseboy> ah drats .. thanks planetmaker
17:16:34  <frosch123> planetmaker, andythenorth: you check something with nars paramter 0, right?
17:17:56  <andythenorth> yes
17:17:59  <planetmaker> frosch123: yes. We check for bit 1 (2nd bit) being set
17:18:08  <planetmaker> if set, there's the re-gearing cargo
17:18:09  <frosch123> what does it mean?
17:18:13  *** PeterT|Ubuntu [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:18:38  <planetmaker> if so, we tell that we run a compatibility mode
17:18:57  <planetmaker> sorry, vice versa. If set, there's NO regearing cargo
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17:20:18  <orudge> a new title screen for OpenTTD, eh. I'll miss the ol' choo choo ding-ding-ding-ding-ding...
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17:21:10  <Rubidium> orudge: actually, the choo choo ding-ding-ding has changed over time :)
17:21:35  <planetmaker> brb
17:21:36  <Rubidium> and you're allowed to make a intro game that does give that same effect
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17:23:11  <orudge> heh, I did see
17:23:53  <PeterT> orudge: You can always use the old title game
17:24:03  <PeterT> just insert a different opnttle.dat
17:24:52  <andythenorth> Terkhen: how about colours 246-254 for the map :P
17:26:08  <orudge> PeterT: well, I realise that, yes
17:26:10  <Terkhen> are they some kind of special colours?
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17:26:30  <PeterT> It will be a hassle though, replacing the original files everytime
17:26:45  <PeterT> I wonder if you could do it by adding an opnttle.dat to the shared directory
17:26:46  <orudge> qwll, I'm not necessarily going to actually do that in practice :/
17:28:08  <andythenorth> Terkhe:  eight identical shades of hot pink
17:29:36  <Terkhen> then we would get a big pink stain with some industries floating over it
17:30:14  <Terkhen> :P
17:30:34  <andythenorth> Terkhen: more seriously, colours 96-103 might be a better version for players who want green, I'm trying to approximate it in photoshop...
17:31:41  <Terkhen> I'll replace red with these colours, let's see how they look
17:33:00  <welshdragon> what have i done wrong here:
17:33:32  <Rubidium> using a broken compiler
17:33:39  <welshdragon> :(
17:33:43  <welshdragon> how to fix?
17:33:55  <welshdragon> (and it's in ubuntu)
17:35:25  <Rubidium> no idea; the compiler crashing on a printf seems pretty bad
17:35:41  <welshdragon> according to Sacro it's the endian check
17:36:06  <Rubidium> it's the compiler that's crashing when compiling endian_check
17:36:44  * Eoin thinks someone should compile for welshdragon :D
17:36:57  <dragonhorseboy> heh
17:37:10  <dragonhorseboy> eoin where have you been??? your "brb" was more than a hour
17:37:10  <dragonhorseboy> :p
17:37:21  <welshdragon> it patched fine
17:37:28  <Eoin> ah
17:37:29  <Eoin> yes
17:37:30  <Rubidium> in other words, it's not a problem of OpenTTD, it's a problem of the compiler you're using
17:37:34  <Eoin> im basically back
17:37:51  <dragonhorseboy> :P
17:38:06  <andythenorth> dragonhorseboy: did you have a question for me earlier?
17:40:08  <dragonhorseboy> hmm don't recall so
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17:45:25  <Terkhen> andythenorth:
17:46:18  <andythenorth> Terkhen: how is brown for you on that map?
17:47:22  <Terkhen> slightly better than with normal green, but still difficult
17:48:43  <Terkhen> I can see the iron ore mine perfectly, but now I confuse the aluminium plant
17:49:24  <Terkhen> I suspect that it is not really brown, but I don't know for sure
17:49:34  <frosch123> usage of parameter 9 should be forbidden
17:50:00  <Terkhen> I like the dark green colour for the heightmap anyways, looks nice
17:52:25  <Hyronymus> it looks good, Terkhen
17:52:29  <Hyronymus> not too bright
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17:57:09  <Terkhen> with dark green, I can see all FIRS industries easily after disabling the heightmap
17:57:37  <Terkhen> I think it is perfect
17:58:23  <andythenorth> dare I try compiling :|
17:58:29  <andythenorth> yes I dar
17:58:31  <andythenorth> e
17:58:53  * andythenorth fails to understand sprite bounding boxes correctly
17:59:04  <Terkhen> wait, I'll upload the new diff file
18:00:24  <Terkhen> done
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18:09:58  <andythenorth> frosch123: what is the problem with param 9?
18:12:04  <andythenorth> Terkhen: compiled.  Map color patch == win :)
18:12:19  <Terkhen> :)
18:13:16  <Terkhen> do you think the colour changes should affect all other modes (besides vegetation)?
18:13:22  <andythenorth> should the gui control for that be in the map?
18:14:26  <Terkhen> it would be useful, but I think all advanced settings are changed only at the advanced settings window
18:15:32  <andythenorth> I don't know if it should affect the other map modes
18:15:39  <andythenorth> probably
18:15:55  <frosch123> planetmaker, andythenorth: you use parameter 0 uninitialised. in the save parameter 0 is somehow 2
18:16:16  <Terkhen> the grey mode probably conflicts with rails, I'll have to check that
18:16:27  <andythenorth> frosch123: the NARS param 0, or the FIRS param 0?
18:16:34  <frosch123> firs param 0
18:16:40  <Terkhen> I don't think that violet or dark green conflict with any colours
18:18:05  <andythenorth> frosch123: I have no idea how that is getting set to 2
18:18:18  <andythenorth> either bad nfo code, or something weird with my OTTD
18:18:20  <andythenorth> I guess
18:18:40  <frosch123> well, i fear it is ottd's fault to not always zero the parameters
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18:20:38  <frosch123> yup, reproduced
18:21:11  <andythenorth> yup me too
18:21:13  <frosch123> start ottd, set firs parameter 0 to 2, then delete all parameters, then start the game.
18:21:23  <andythenorth> = error
18:21:36  <andythenorth> then set firs param 0 explicitly to 0
18:21:40  <andythenorth> = no error
18:21:41  <frosch123> the param has still value 2 as it was not initialised, and ottd does not always check number of valid parameters
18:21:52  <andythenorth> should the grf try and handle that
18:21:53  <andythenorth> ?
18:22:35  <frosch123> no idea what you intend with param 0, but it is at least partly ottd's fault
18:23:21  <andythenorth> FIRS param 0 should default to 0 if not explicitly set
18:23:42  <andythenorth> planetmaker ^^ maybe we should code for that?
18:29:19  <planetmaker> back
18:29:54  <andythenorth> bug: reproduced ;)
18:31:21  <andythenorth> question to the audience:
18:31:22  <andythenorth>
18:31:36  <andythenorth> "Dredging Site",  "Dredging Operation", or "Dredger"
18:31:38  <andythenorth> ?
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18:32:30  <sam_ch> if you ask, i'd say the latter
18:32:36  <planetmaker> andy, yes, we should prepare for the parameter to be set to 0, if not explicitly set by the user...
18:32:53  <planetmaker> also: dredging site
18:33:17  <andythenorth> planetmaker: do you want to code the parameter, or do you want me to do it?
18:33:48  <planetmaker> I can take care of that, if you like. If you don't mind to not have it done tonight :-)
18:33:56  <andythenorth> fine by me
18:33:57  <planetmaker> I haven't yet finished correcting homeworks
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18:34:22  <andythenorth> thinking I might release something
18:34:32  <planetmaker> sure, why not
18:34:51  <andythenorth> how much does the helicopter 'bug' matter on the dredging site (see it in the image linked above)
18:34:52  <andythenorth> ?
18:35:15  <planetmaker> it's rather a glitch :-)
18:35:29  <andythenorth> I could draw a landing platform, but the shadow will still be wrong
18:35:33  <planetmaker> Not desirable in the final one. But yet another intermediate release shouldn't be stalled by that
18:36:31  <Yexo> do you want a heliport there at all or was the plan to remove it (I know the current specs don't support that)?
18:37:40  <andythenorth> I don't want a heliport there
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18:40:37  <frosch123> we are reaching eddi's favorite topic
18:41:11  <Rubidium> "the defaults are wrong"
18:41:26  <frosch123> no, state machines for all vehicles
18:45:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r18698 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:45:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
18:45:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: estonian - 71 changes by KSiimson
18:45:36  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: greek - 4 changes by fumantsu
18:45:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: indonesian - 4 changes by prof
18:45:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: portuguese - 1 changes by JayCity
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18:46:21  <andythenorth> I could draw sprites for a much larger dredging barge...with helipad
18:46:22  <andythenorth>
18:46:24  <andythenorth> meh
18:47:14  <planetmaker> I really would need to see a dredging barge where sand is transported away by transport helicopters ;-)
18:47:58  <andythenorth> This one's pretty awesome, no helipad, but a helipad is plausible...
18:47:59  <andythenorth>
18:48:30  <andythenorth> this one does have a helipad
18:48:31  <andythenorth>
18:48:37  <andythenorth> enough already
18:49:03  <welshdragon> in the nightly timetable window: what does the button scheduled/expected do?
18:51:03  <Rubidium> toggle between showing the scheduled arrival/departure times and the expected (based on current lateness) arrival/departure times
18:52:00  <welshdragon> i don't see any diffenece :/
18:52:09  <welshdragon> how do i do seperation?
18:52:30  <Rubidium> find a train that's late and you'll see a difference
18:52:41  <welshdragon> oh, i c
18:53:11  <Rubidium> or one that's early, although that only shows when using waypoints
18:53:36  <welshdragon> ah
18:53:44  <welshdragon> i can see the difference now
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18:56:26  * welshdragon tries to find a wiki page that can help
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19:00:47  <ccfreak2k> It's too bad the opengl patch died.
19:04:01  <Rubidium> well, it never really worked either
19:05:49  <frosch123> and the blitters are not the bottleneck anymore
19:05:54  * Rubidium wonders how many people's new year's resolutions have been to be stupider than the previous decade
19:07:03  <peter1138> heh
19:07:14  <peter1138> the opengl blitter *was* a huge bottleneck when zoomed out ;)
19:07:38  *** Madis [] has joined #openttd
19:12:47  <Rubidium> # isn't it ironic, don't you think :)
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19:30:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r18699 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf.h newgrf_spritegroup.cpp): -Fix [FS#PlanetAndy]: GRF parameters were not properly initialised to zero, and not always checked for valid range.
19:31:38  *** NeosaD [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:32:17  <andythenorth> hmmm....helicopter shadow is anyway broken on default oil rig
19:33:24  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r18700 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix: when deleting an industry on water (oil rigs) the tiles on water were not marked dirty
19:37:38  <andythenorth> Yexo: that last commit...I've been deleting water industries and their sprites are drawn for quite some time after destruction....are they related?
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19:38:16  <Yexo> yes, that should be fixedwith that commit
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19:47:40  *** Almost_Legal_Alien is now known as I_ome_in_peace_Alien
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19:48:14  *** I_come_in_peace_Alien is now known as Alien_From_Space
19:48:23  <Chrill> Where's space?
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19:48:49  *** I-want-to-kill-stupid-people-a is now known as Illegal_Alien
19:48:57  <Illegal_Alien> wrong
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20:08:55  <luk3Z> varity distribution - what is that ? I try generate new map in r18698 but this option is new since 0.7.5
20:09:52  *** Madis [] has joined #openttd
20:10:26  <planetmaker> size of landscape features roughly speaking
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20:12:58  <frosch123> luk3Z: it controls whether a hilly landscape is hilly in all places or also mountainious and flat in some
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20:15:03  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r18701 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r18700): always compile before making a commit
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20:15:40  <hellerrr> hi
20:16:51  <planetmaker> moin
20:17:44  <hellerrr> when a train  is reversing to check for empty route
20:17:55  <hellerrr> how can i make it turn back if a route forward is free?
20:18:12  <planetmaker> press the "turn train button"
20:18:24  <hellerrr> but i dont want to turn all trains manually
20:18:37  <planetmaker> bad luck then
20:18:52  <dragonhorseboy> umm why are you intentionally causing all of your trains to flip around in first place?
20:18:58  <hellerrr> i get a message "train is lost" or there is no profit cos trains are stopped to wrong direction
20:19:01  <planetmaker> wait till they turn themselves. Works for non-pbs signals
20:19:07  <hellerrr> pbs?
20:19:11  <hellerrr> what was it..
20:19:15  <planetmaker> path signals
20:19:24  <planetmaker> as opposed to block signals
20:19:32  <hellerrr> the one with 2 reds?
20:19:38  <planetmaker> hm, yes
20:19:47  *** Zuu [] has joined #openttd
20:19:49  <hellerrr> hmm
20:19:52  <planetmaker> I guess it's true for most graphical representations of them ;-)
20:20:05  <hellerrr> ill give you an url
20:20:06  <hellerrr>,%2017-12-2028.png
20:20:09  <hellerrr> thats one example
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20:20:33  <hellerrr> that log-train is reversed
20:20:37  <hellerrr> and only waiting
20:20:47  <hellerrr> even if there is room ahead
20:20:50  <dragonhorseboy> hellerrr try normal signals?
20:20:58  <dragonhorseboy> who knows heh
20:21:12  <planetmaker> yeah, you use path signals. You have to turn them all manually
20:21:51  <planetmaker> there's somewhere a config setting which forbids turning at all.
20:22:29  <planetmaker> wait_for_pbs_path
20:22:56  <dragonhorseboy> hmmm no tank locomotive in PJ1K .. what were they actually thinking
20:23:07  <hellerrr>,%202038-07-26.png and that too
20:23:18  <planetmaker> you can change that variable to 255 to have trains never turn
20:23:24  <hellerrr> from console?
20:23:26  <planetmaker> yes
20:23:45  <hellerrr> no such varialb
20:23:45  <hellerrr> e
20:24:33  <planetmaker> then something similar. Your openttd.cfg will know :-)
20:25:00  <hellerrr> oops
20:25:12  <planetmaker> well. Mine knows
20:25:18  <hellerrr> in that new pic i made the "upper" arrows point to wrong train :D
20:25:30  <planetmaker> and our server, too
20:25:35  <hellerrr> hm=
20:26:26  <planetmaker> rcon set "wait_for_pbs_path 255"
20:26:34  <planetmaker> I never recall though how to put the "
20:26:50  <hellerrr> its not a server
20:26:51  <hellerrr> local game
20:27:03  <planetmaker> yeah. should work despite
20:27:10  <planetmaker> maybe you can do w/o rcon
20:27:24  <hellerrr> cant
20:27:38  <hellerrr> ooh
20:27:39  <hellerrr> can
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20:29:43  <mgmuscari> hey... i can't find anything beyond the fix (which doesn't seem to work) in the known-bugs.txt file. does anybody else have choppy sound in 1.0.0-beta1 using pulseaudio under ubuntu karmic?
20:30:01  <Yexo> I've been thinking about allowing a newgrf industry to have only a dock or only a heliport
20:30:33  <planetmaker> that sounds desirable, Yexo :-)
20:30:42  <Yexo> would adding 2 bits to the special industry flags (var 1A) that each disable one of the features (dock/heliport) be a good idea?
20:30:44  <dragonhorseboy> yexo what kind of industry?
20:31:07  <Yexo> so if you want to have only a heliport you enable the BUILD_ON_WATER flag, then also enable the DISABLE_DOCK flag
20:31:28  <Yexo> dragonhorseboy: I'll leave that to the imagination of newgrf authors
20:31:44  <Yexo> but andythenorth has already an industry that would use this I think
20:31:52  <dragonhorseboy> yexo...some kind of alternative oilrigs you mean?
20:32:24  <Yexo> on the other hand that'd still link it to the BUILD_ON_WATER flag
20:32:32  <Yexo> maybe something that also works for land industries is better
20:32:48  <planetmaker> yes...
20:32:59  <dragonhorseboy> if its on land it better accept road and/or rail elsewise why is there really any point in having that industry there in first place unless its just for looks like the lighthouses?
20:33:57  <planetmaker> Yexo: though... I don't see that adding such flag limits it to water only
20:34:13  <Rubidium> mgmuscari: don't think there are many ubuntu karmic users in here
20:34:16  <Yexo> planetmaker: adding the flag doesn't, but with my definition above it is
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20:35:16  <gathers> mgmuscari, I don't know about karmic but I made a different personal fix myself (before knowing about the bug) Increasing spec.samples from 512 to 1024 seemed to cure my high cpu usage (on jaunty)
20:35:42  <mgmuscari> gathers: in openttd.cfg?
20:36:16  <mgmuscari> gathers: did you compile it or install with the .deb?
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20:36:30  <gathers> no, in src/sound/sdl_s.cpp
20:36:38  <mgmuscari> ah... you compiled it
20:37:12  <mgmuscari> maybe i'll just go back to 0.7.0 for now
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21:08:57  <mgmuscari> Rubidium: actually installing libsdl1.2debian-pulse made no difference for me, so i suspect SDL just can't deal with PA using timer-based scheduling
21:09:04  <mgmuscari> Rubidium: how would I go about doing that?
21:09:24  <mgmuscari> Rubidium: check it out from SVN?
21:09:26  <gathers> mgmuscari, nice :) though I would rather just launch with SDL_AUDIODRIVER=pulse for now. But I can try that and see how it behaves
21:10:02  <mgmuscari> wow, opensfx sounds a lot better
21:10:29  <Rubidium> mgmuscari: just write down a replacement for the current text in known-bugs.txt at e.g. and link that here
21:10:49  <Yexo> frosch123: currently you can transport any cargo from an oil rig if another industry is close enough
21:10:59  <Yexo> should that just be regarded as a bug then?
21:11:45  <weaselboy246> i'd say so
21:13:28  <gathers> mgmuscari, I don't have that line in there to start with.. will try adding and restarting pulse-audio
21:13:30  <frosch123> he, you can ask the same question about acceptance of cargo and other stations nearby (i.e. the typical railroad station next to the oilrig :p)
21:14:03  <Yexo> well that can be explained by the industry delivering goods both to the internal station and to external stations
21:14:11  <Yexo> just like how cargo can be split between stations
21:15:01  <weaselboy246> funny that the first time i played TTD i didn't know i could use oil rig as station. actually used to raise land and build dock lol
21:15:16  <mgmuscari> Rubidium:
21:15:33  <Timmaexx> Sorry i couldn't watch the conversation of rubidium, gathers and mgmuscari. My OpenTTD sound is broken, can i solve this  by installing libsdl1.2debian-pulse?
21:15:46  <mgmuscari> Timmaexx: what operating system are you using?
21:15:49  <Timmaexx> I have Ubuntu 9.10
21:15:59  <gathers> mgmuscari, changing had no effect for me with svn r18622, atleast not with a simple /etc/init.d/pulseaudio restart
21:16:18  <mgmuscari> gathers: keep in mind that in 9.10 PA runs in per-user mode, not as a daemon
21:16:24  <Yexo> Timmaexx: read known-bugs.txt and the pastebin mgmuscari just posted (
21:16:40  <mgmuscari> log out and log back in for good measure... restarting PA by hand gave me some problems so i just bounced my X server
21:16:50  <mgmuscari> Timmaexx: what Yexo said
21:17:04  <Timmaexx> Thank you very Much!
21:17:14  <mgmuscari> i'm using ubuntu 9.10 64 bit and it fixed the problem for me
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21:17:19  <mgmuscari> with both 0.7.1 and the beta
21:17:37  <Cow> hello?
21:17:37  <gathers> mgmuscari, I have a gazillion firefox windows/tabs (forgot how to bookmark), so I'll leave the testing to others :)
21:17:45  <Yexo> hello Cow
21:17:49  <Cow> hey
21:18:03  <Rubidium> thanks mgmuscari
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21:18:08  <mgmuscari> Rubidium: NP
21:19:02  <mgmuscari> lol, that's my first OSS contribution :p
21:19:06  <gathers> Should something about SDL_AUDIODRIVER=pulse be added to the notes as well? (if that works under karmic)
21:19:22  <mgmuscari> rather anticlimactic
21:19:58  <mgmuscari> gathers: maybe that would be better in a bug report... as a workaround for the default PA config
21:20:09  <mgmuscari> since that's actually a source code change
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21:20:24  <Timmaexx> isn't that kind of SPAM?
21:20:29  <gathers> it's not a source code change
21:20:51  <mgmuscari> gathers: where did you make that change?
21:21:13  <gathers> I just launch it that way from bash
21:21:25  <mgmuscari> oh you pass it as a switch
21:21:32  <PeterT> Yexo: I have a patch
21:22:12  <Yexo> +Open trunk/openttd_vs[8|9]0.sln <- that line is not needed
21:22:12  <gathers> mgmuscari, yes, set the environment variable for sdl
21:22:20  <Yexo> the original line is valid syntax
21:22:25  <mgmuscari> gathers: if that works it's worth mentioning as users without sudo or root privileges would be able to simply make that change to their shortcut
21:22:47  <PeterT> Yexo: ok
21:22:52  <gathers> mgmuscari, works for me, but I can't test under karmic
21:22:55  <PeterT> should I upload a new patch?
21:23:39  <mgmuscari> i'll give it a try
21:23:39  <Yexo> nah, I'll fix that
21:23:43  *** PeterT [] has quit [Quit: Bye]
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21:24:26  <mgmuscari> brb
21:24:29  *** Fast2 [] has joined #openttd
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21:24:42  * Cow slaps welshdragon around a bit with a large trout
21:24:48  <Cow> haha
21:24:53  * Cow slaps welshdragon around a bit with a large trout
21:24:56  * Cow slaps welshdragon around a bit with a large trout
21:25:00  <Cow> take that
21:25:04  <Cow> :P
21:25:27  <dragonhorseboy> -_-
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21:26:00  <mgmuscari> meh... i removed that line from my, bounced my x session again, and now the sound is working fine anyway...
21:26:00  *** JVassie [~TheExile^] has joined #openttd
21:26:01  <Cow> i don't like that everyone can see your ip address
21:26:06  <Yexo> Cow: is this in any way relevant here? Otherwise leave it in #tycoon
21:26:16  <Cow> nope
21:26:29  <welshdragon> Cow: do i know you?
21:26:33  <Cow> yes
21:26:48  <Cow> i was on Jonty's server yesterday
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21:26:58  <welshdragon> ah
21:27:00  <Cow> got banned
21:27:04  <welshdragon> well, please don't
21:27:06  <Cow> dunno why?
21:27:14  <weaselboy246> wonder why
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21:27:59  <dragonhorseboy> wb andythenorth
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21:29:31  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18703 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Feature-ish: allow virtually paying a percentage of the leg profit in feeder chains. This to give the user a better chance to get a feeder system without "losses".
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21:30:05  <Rubidium> mgmuscari: <- I've slightly rewritten it, does that look okay? (Don't have Ubuntu, so I'm far from sure about it)
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21:31:53  <mgmuscari> Rubidium: yes that seems fine. a few typos
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21:34:07  <frosch123> night
21:34:07  <Rubidium> only found one (bye instead of by)
21:34:09  <Rubidium> night frosch123
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21:34:41  <mgmuscari> change Selecting to Select
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21:35:14  <mgmuscari> and "Under recent version" -> "Under recent versions"
21:35:20  <mgmuscari> sorry, i'm pedantic about grammar
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21:35:29  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r18704 /trunk/docs/Readme_Windows_MSVC.txt: -Doc: update the 'Compiling OpenTTD using Microsoft Visual C++' documentation
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21:37:27  <Rubidium> mgmuscari: doesn't matter; the grammar should be right (I'm just not that good in grammar)
21:38:01  <Rubidium> anyhow, new version. Begin of last paragraph is changed
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21:45:08  <mgmuscari> ok
21:45:10  <mgmuscari> sounds good
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21:47:33  <Cow> wb
21:48:12  <mgmuscari> i've never been clear on what affects industry "levels" ... is there an article somewhere that explains how to increase the productivity of say, a forest?
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21:48:37  <Xaroth> by using it a lot
21:48:39  <KingJ> Provide a good service to it, and the output will gradually rise
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21:49:39  <mgmuscari> hmm, this depot always has a very low amount of wood waiting, and a train visits frequently to fill up on wood, yet the service is still poor...
21:49:47  <gathers> mgmuscari, take a look at
21:50:34  <mgmuscari> perhaps because i turned on smooth economy
21:51:41  <mgmuscari> just taking a while
21:53:14  <gathers> I always try to keep one train at each station loading fully, and if I have the money get a statue, to keep the ratings up
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21:57:33  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18705 /trunk/known-bugs.txt: -Update: the known bugs document about the PulseAudio issue based on mgmuscari's solution/workaround
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21:59:23  <andythenorth> if you want to increase industry production, try using road vehicles on a feeder service
22:01:27  *** Bjelleklang [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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22:04:33  <gathers> r18703 gave me an idea.. might it be possible to save the transfer profit somewhere (in vehicle order list perhaps?) and always use the previously saved value to decide how large a fraction of the profits to award for that leg?
22:05:28  <Eddi|zuHause> gathers: how is that supposed to adjust too high estimates over time?
22:05:30  <Rubidium> gathers: technically it is possible, but that requires a load more memory/savegame space
22:06:06  <gathers> if you have the profit for the whole chain, then you can find the fraction on each transfer (if the route is the same)
22:06:40  <Eddi|zuHause> gathers: and what about very complex transfer systems?
22:06:48  <Eddi|zuHause> gathers: especially cargodistr
22:06:51  <Eddi|zuHause> -r
22:07:00  <gathers> Eddi|zuHause, well, it wouldn't matter it it's wrong once, but if running averages are kept it'd work out eventually?
22:07:39  <mgmuscari> hmm
22:07:44  <mgmuscari> shorter, more frequent trains help
22:07:54  <mgmuscari> to maintain a good rating
22:08:33  <Eddi|zuHause> mgmuscari: typically you have either "always a train waiting" or you push the rating by short distance road vehicles (especially in towns)
22:08:40  <gathers> I was thinking something like a feeder_payment_share per station order, calculated using running averages
22:08:47  <planetmaker> g'night
22:09:36  <mgmuscari> yeah i started this game too early for road vehicles...
22:09:56  <andythenorth> bye planetmaker
22:10:05  <andythenorth> mgmuscari: when did you start?
22:10:26  <gathers> Eddi|zuHause, I was hoping cargodist might "know" how many transfers are planned, but poking around the source makes me think otherwise :(
22:10:29  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r18706 /trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs):
22:10:29  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Cleanup: remove docs/Manual.txt and docs/OSX_install_instructions.txt, the contents of those are already in readme.txt and they were outdated.
22:10:29  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Add docs/obm_format.txt and docs/obs_format.txt to Makefile.bundle
22:10:29  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Add several documentation files to the windows installer
22:11:28  <Yexo> gathers: if you play with cargodist you shouldn't use transfers at all, the cargo will be transferred automatically when needed
22:11:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure about cargodist, but cargodest only knows the next hop
22:12:06  <mgmuscari> 1914
22:14:05  <gathers> Yexo, yes, I know
22:14:38  <Yexo> gathers: sorry, I read back more now and see you're talking about something differnt, so pelase ignore my comment
22:15:02  <gathers> np :)
22:16:21  <mgmuscari> hmmm... is there any way to automatically extend a train when it goes in for maintenance? i know i can autoreplace the engine....
22:16:58  <mgmuscari> let's say i wanted to match all trains that have engine-flatcar-flatcar-flatcar and then add 3 more flatcars
22:17:06  <mgmuscari> sort of like regular expression matching
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22:18:23  <Eddi|zuHause> no, that is not implemented
22:19:26  <Yexo> see also
22:21:10  *** Hyppy [] has joined #openttd
22:22:20  <Rubidium> Yexo: the installer changes are fine; it seems to behave as it should
22:22:32  <Yexo> cool :)
22:23:27  *** PeterT [] has joined #openttd
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22:28:49  <Cow> brb
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22:29:04  <Zuu> hmm, a regular train expression sonuds interesting
22:29:09  <PeterT> you don't need to annouce it for us, Cow
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22:38:43  <PeterT> Yexo: what do you think of my patch?
22:38:59  * welshdragon tries compiling openttd again...
22:39:10  <Yexo> PeterT: see r18704
22:39:19  <Yexo> the file was outdated indeed, but I made some other changes
22:39:22  <PeterT> ahh
22:39:26  <PeterT> cool :-)
22:39:31  <andythenorth> good night
22:39:35  <PeterT> you didn't say "Based on idea by petert"
22:39:39  <PeterT> :-(
22:39:39  <Yexo> night andythenorth
22:39:42  *** andythenorth [] has left #openttd []
22:39:43  <PeterT> night, andythenorth
22:40:05  <welshdragon> same error as before....
22:40:20  <Yexo> PeterT: I'd have done that if I used any of your patch, but basically i rewrote all of it
22:40:33  <PeterT> it's the idea... anyway
22:42:54  <Terkhen> good night andythenorth
22:43:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r18707 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Fix (r17802): local variables should not be accessed after the function returns
22:43:54  <welshdragon> PeterT: did you get any errors when compiling 18678 + cargodist?
22:44:02  <PeterT> No, welsh
22:44:04  <welshdragon> it seems weird that I do on ubuntu
22:45:10  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18708 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Feature: [NewGRF] Add support for custom station foundation graphics.
22:45:42  <welshdragon> what does printf_endian do?
22:45:50  <welshdragon> somebody just asked me
22:46:31  <Yexo> if it's that guy that got a compiler error trying to compile openttd: it doesn't matter, it's a compiler bug
22:46:35  <Rubidium> welshdragon: open the file endian_check.cpp and try to find the function printf_endian. Then look at what it does
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22:48:05  <welshdragon> trying to find it
22:48:12  <welshdragon> it's a file apparently
22:48:40  <Yexo> endian_check.cpp is indeed a file, it can be found in any source checkout
22:49:25  <welshdragon> where?
22:49:36  <Yexo> in src/
22:49:38  <Rubidium> lmgtfy?
22:50:29  <PeterT> Rubidium: He's asking a valid question
22:50:38  <Rubidium>
22:50:42  <Yexo> and has been given an answer already
22:51:20  <welshdragon>
22:51:37  <Yexo> it's that file indeed
22:52:26  <welshdragon> xD
22:54:30  <Rubidium> PeterT: asking where to find the transfer payment calculation would be a valid question, asking where to find a file his compile complains about isn't really a valid question because actually typing "find . -iname endian_check.cpp" results in the correct answer in seconds, the whole "where can I find it" stuff takes more time
22:55:21  <Rubidium> I'm giving an unique keyword to search for, then you really should be able to find that
22:55:37  <welshdragon> the people who i'm getting to help me are confused
22:55:56  <PeterT> Rubidium: Would asking were to find the parameters code be a valid question?
22:55:57  <welshdragon> the coding that is done in C is confusing them
22:56:47  <Rubidium> if C confuses them, then how can they be of any help to your C(++) compiler problem?
22:56:55  <welshdragon> xD
22:58:05  <Yexo> PeterT: yes, the answer would be openttd.cpp
22:58:15  <Yexo> as I've told you before
22:58:27  <PeterT> I knew that, you told me before
22:58:40  <PeterT> was just asking if that type of thing is a good question
22:58:59  <PeterT> not like "wheeRz my compizer?"
22:59:00  <Yexo> yes, or I wouldn't have answered it that way
23:00:16  <Rubidium> PeterT: asking for things that can be trivially found are usually invalid questions
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23:02:27  <welshdragon> so, any ideas what's wrong with endian_check.cpp?
23:03:00  <Rubidium> welshdragon: nothing
23:03:11  <Rubidium> there's something wrong with your compiler setup
23:03:17  <welshdragon> -_-
23:03:41  <welshdragon> i followed to the letter
23:04:12  <Yexo> try instaling a newer or older version of gcc
23:04:13  <Eddi|zuHause> typically, if people say that, they didn't :p
23:04:23  <PeterT> he did, trust me
23:04:26  <Rubidium> doesn't mean that Ubuntu doesn't ship a broken compiler, or that something fishy is going on that broke your installation (HDD corruption?)
23:04:30  <Zuu> Then that guide was not for your version of your distribution. Or you have something in your setup that differs from the one imagned by the author of the page.
23:04:50  <welshdragon> Zuu: it is
23:04:57  <welshdragon> it's for Ubuntu
23:05:13  <Zuu> Yep, but is it for the same version of ubuntu?
23:05:48  *** helb [~helb@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:05:51  <Yexo> even if it is the version of gcc shipped with that version of ubuntu could've been changed
23:06:38  <welshdragon> it's the versionof ubuntu that's on their repositories
23:07:18  <PeterT> welshdragon: Have you tried deleting the folder and re-downloading the source? Your endian_check.cpp might have broken during transport
23:07:21  <peter1138> install and run debsums :)
23:07:26  <welshdragon> heh
23:07:59  <Zuu> or you got a broken Ram, that could cause many interesting things. :-)
23:08:05  <welshdragon> even hackier way of doing it: forcing endian_check to say it's little endian
23:08:56  <Rubidium> welshdragon: it's *very* likely that you're going to run into more problems if even that simple line causes gcc to crash
23:09:11  <welshdragon> it's worth a try...
23:09:20  <welshdragon> ;)
23:09:56  *** Rubix`` [] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: 540 seconds]
23:09:57  <Zuu> If you experience that other programs crash, a memtest86(+) is recommended I would say.
23:10:14  <welshdragon> Zuu: it;s got new ram
23:10:25  <Rubidium> PeterT: even on broken source code gcc should NOT crash. If gcc crashes that is 100% of the time a bug in gcc.
23:10:31  <Yexo> maybe the new ram was broken at the time you bought it
23:10:41  <welshdragon> trust me
23:10:46  <welshdragon> it's not my RAM
23:10:58  <Rubidium> where I 'assume' that broken ram is a gcc bug too (even though it isn't)
23:11:12  <Zuu> I had to send back new ram once because it failed on memtest86 before installing the OS.
23:11:12  <Rubidium> it's at least NOT a bug in the source file
23:11:26  *** slas [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:11:42  <peter1138> DOA is a fairly common error...
23:12:02  * peter1138 ponders syncing cargodest
23:12:18  <PeterT> does #openttd have psig stats somewhere?
23:12:33  <Rubidium> I hope you don't; you'll go crazy on the GUI code
23:12:49  <Yexo> peter1138: wasn't the new order code a huge obstacle?
23:13:30  <Zuu> Does cargodest has something worthfull that cargodist do not have?
23:13:30  <Rubidium> heh, that code has been massively rewritten too
23:13:32  <peter1138> technically no. i just didn't grok what celestar had done ;p
23:14:17  <Yexo> Zuu: I think it's less bug-prone because it handles everything in one thread
23:14:39  <Yexo> cargodist uses multiple threads and sometimes needs to wait on them for computations to finish, that can easily give desyncs if done wrong
23:14:52  <Eddi|zuHause> <Rubidium> I hope you don't; you'll go crazy on the GUI code <-- i know that feeling ;)
23:15:09  <Yexo> at least that's what I understood from several forum posts, I haven't read any code of cargodist myself
23:15:21  *** JVassie [~TheExile^] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:15:49  <Yexo> I doubt cargodest changes soo much gui code that that's going to be a problem
23:16:18  <Eddi|zuHause> afair only the station window
23:16:39  <peter1138> most of it was just different content in widgets
23:16:53  <welshdragon> ok, so I got the source again
23:16:59  <welshdragon> (from SVN)
23:17:20  <welshdragon> after getting it to the correct version and trying to patch it fails
23:17:36  <Yexo> patching fails or compiling fails?
23:17:47  <Yexo> if compiling fails, can you compile the code without any patch?
23:17:53  <welshdragon> * patching file src/station_cmd.cpp
23:18:08  <welshdragon> * hunk #1 succeeded
23:18:23  <welshdragon> * hunk #2 failed at 3344
23:18:24  <Yexo> most likely you didn't update to the correct version before patching
23:18:40  <welshdragon> Yexo: i did
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23:19:06  <Yexo> what is the output of "svnversion" and what patch are you trying to apply?
23:19:38  <welshdragon> Yexo: 18678m
23:20:00  <welshdragon> and cargodist r18678
23:20:16  <Yexo> is that the only patch? You didn't apply another patch first?
23:20:26  <welshdragon> that's the only patch
23:20:34  <Yexo> got a link to the patch?
23:20:58  <welshdragon>
23:21:18  *** darkmonkey [] has quit []
23:22:33  <Rubidium> that patch is definitely not for that version of trunk
23:23:03  <welshdragon> then how did PeterT compile it?
23:23:06  <welshdragon> :/
23:23:07  <Rubidium> hmm, never mind... I applied it incorrectly
23:23:14  <Rubidium> it works fine for that revision of trunk
23:23:18  <peter1138> heh
23:23:26  <peter1138> yikes, 289KB of patch
23:23:32  <Yexo> applies correctly
23:23:44  <peter1138> welshdragon, dodgy ram
23:23:47  <Yexo> welshdragon: try "svn revert -R ." and then try to apply again
23:23:51  <Rubidium> and endian_check.cpp compiles fine
23:23:55  <peter1138> (or dodgy hdd, but ram is more likely)
23:24:05  <Rubidium> Yexo: that doesn't remove the added unversioned files
23:24:11  <Yexo> oh, right
23:24:25  <welshdragon> Yexo: it doesn't work
23:24:26  *** mikegrb [] has quit [Quit: tasaro]
23:24:29  <welshdragon> not enough arguments
23:24:36  *** mikegrb [] has joined #openttd
23:24:43  <Yexo> welshdragon: notice the dot at the end
23:24:55  <Yexo> and do "rm -r src/linkgraph/" before trying to patch again
23:25:01  <Yexo> and rm src/core/multimap.hpp
23:25:20  <Yexo> and src/saveload/linkgraph_sl.cpp
23:25:55  <Eddi|zuHause> "svn status | grep '?' | xargs rm"
23:26:16  <Rubidium> rm -rf * && svn up ;)
23:26:34  <welshdragon> Rubidium: lolno
23:26:59  <Zuu> It works as long as you don't have any importent documents in the directory.
23:27:08  <Zuu> important*
23:27:08  <Yexo> both solution are fine, unless some useful files are stored inside the checkout
23:27:53  <welshdragon> ok, i've followed Yexo's instructions
23:28:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: put those "important files" into ignore first ;)
23:29:18  <welshdragon> might be a solution
23:29:45  <welshdragon> (thanks to dashavoo on AFNet for that)
23:29:53  <Yexo> it's a workaround, not a solution
23:29:57  <Yexo> your compiler is still broken
23:30:18  <Yexo> whether you trust a broken compiler is up to you
23:30:47  <welshdragon> well, no
23:30:49  <Rubidium> Yexo: why are you so stubborn in saying his compiler is broken? welshdragon is certain it isn't
23:31:13  <Yexo> oh, right
23:31:27  <Yexo> hardware is ok, compiler is ok, source code is ok, so there is no problem
23:31:37  <peter1138> it's working :D
23:31:56  <Rubidium> your support call will now be terminated...
23:32:17  <peter1138> after taking your paypal details
23:32:46  <welshdragon> i'll throw some ubuntu disks in the post
23:32:48  <welshdragon> ;)
23:33:07  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:33:46  <Zuu> Are ubuntu disks the new kind of post cards? ;-)
23:33:53  <welshdragon> yes
23:33:57  <Rubidium> Zuu: it's called spam
23:34:48  <PeterT> yes, they get frisbeed at you and you must catch them with your computer
23:35:02  <hellerrr> argh
23:35:04  <hellerrr> i hate this
23:35:06  <hellerrr>,%202044-12-04.png
23:35:27  <hellerrr> that train was waiting a route for less than 2 secs and then turned to another direction
23:35:41  <hellerrr> and made a clog
23:35:47  <hellerrr> how can i stop them making it?
23:35:52  *** hellerrr is now known as heller
23:36:02  <Zuu> You didn't save on the arrows :-)
23:36:30  <Yexo> heller: if you type "set wait_for_pbs_path" in the ingame console (when that savegame is laoded), what's the output?
23:36:45  <Rubidium> Yexo: it's not a path signal it turned around 'for'
23:37:02  <peter1138> ah, impromper signalling
23:37:08  <Eddi|zuHause> need to set the other wait times to 255 as well
23:37:16  <Yexo> oh, kinda hard to spot with those signals
23:38:12  *** asilv [] has quit []
23:38:17  <heller> set wait_for_pbs_path is now 255
23:38:40  <Eddi|zuHause> heller: and wait_oneway_signal and wait_twoway_signal or something like that
23:38:45  <Zuu> heller: That would be enough if you were only using path based signals.
23:39:01  <heller> hmm
23:39:04  <heller> i am?
23:39:13  <peter1138> you're not
23:39:15  <Zuu> You are also using block signals.
23:39:25  <welshdragon> ok, Yexo's way didn't work
23:39:25  <heller> what is path based?
23:39:31  <Zuu> They use some other settings as pointed out by Eddie.
23:39:33  <welshdragon> nor did modifyng the file
23:39:39  <welshdragon> *sigh*
23:39:45  <Yexo> welshdragon: what's the nwe output?
23:40:20  <Zuu> heller: For documentation on the different signal types:
23:40:23  <PeterT> what was wrong with my answer?
23:40:23  <heller> do i have to reload game etc or is the effect instant?
23:40:27  *** weaselboy246 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:40:28  <PeterT>
23:40:34  <Yexo> and what part of "my way" didn't work? I only explained how to clean your working directory and patch again
23:40:35  *** weaselboy246 [] has joined #openttd
23:41:05  <welshdragon>
23:41:27  <Yexo> heller: the effect is instand, but you'll still ahve to manually reverse any trains that have already turned
23:41:36  <peter1138> welshdragon, yes, definitely working fine
23:41:37  <PeterT> does #openttd have pisg stats anywhere?
23:41:41  <Yexo> and you have to execute that ocmmand in the main menu to change it for new games
23:41:54  <Rubidium> PeterT: that your answer doesn't work for trains turning around at block signals; actually if trains now turn around at block signals and end up in a path signaled block they are completely locked, they won't move at all without manual intervention
23:42:04  <peter1138> welshdragon, absolutely no memory problem there at all, honest
23:42:16  <welshdragon> peter1138: don't lie
23:42:21  <welshdragon> itis my ram isn't it?
23:42:31  <peter1138> 23:10 < welshdragon> trust me
23:42:31  <peter1138> 23:10 < welshdragon> it's not my RAM
23:42:35  <peter1138> so it can't be
23:42:47  <welshdragon> :(
23:42:48  <Yexo> welshdragon: if you don't believe us, do you at least believe gcc itself? "...: internal compiler error: Segmentation fault" "#Please submit a full bug report,"
23:42:54  <PeterT> why do trains turn around at block signals
23:42:59  <PeterT> is there a setting for that?
23:43:04  <welshdragon> hmm
23:43:07  <welshdragon> *sigh*
23:43:09  <Yexo> since the error is in a differnt file this time I highly doubt it's gcc
23:43:12  <Zuu> PeterT: Yes
23:43:19  <PeterT> ok
23:43:22  <welshdragon> i can't afford to buy new RAM
23:43:26  <PeterT> are there pisg stats for #openttd?
23:43:30  <PeterT> nothing on Google
23:43:31  <Yexo> PeterT: yes, wait_oneway_signal and wait_twoway_signal
23:43:32  <Zuu> "Eddi|zuHause heller: and wait_oneway_signal and wait_twoway_signal or something like that"
23:43:36  <peter1138> i thought you said you had new ram?
23:43:37  <glx> RAM or HDD, but some hardware has problem
23:43:44  <PeterT> Yexo: I see.
23:43:44  <Yexo> keeping to ask the same question isn't going to help you
23:43:50  <welshdragon> peter1138: the RAM is fairly new
23:43:52  <Yexo> if anybody has an answer you'll get it
23:43:52  <PeterT> was wondering what those were
23:44:03  <PeterT> Yexo: yeah, I know *embarresed*
23:44:10  <Rhamphoryncus> heller: the key to understanding path based signals is that instead of defining "blocks" which can only handle one train at a time, they instead define "stopping points" with reservation happening on a per-tile basis
23:44:20  <Zuu> welshdragon: Did you run a memory test program on your ram after you installed it?
23:44:41  <peter1138> it could just be a dodgy cpu
23:44:53  <peter1138> or motherboard
23:45:05  <glx> definetely hardware ;)
23:45:33  <Zuu> If memtest or prime shows an error you should be lucky to know for sure where the error is.
23:45:36  <welshdragon> what's to say that it isn't the source that is fbar'd
23:45:41  <welshdragon> *fubar'd
23:45:45  <Yexo> PeterT: those are very old (jan 2007):
23:45:56  <Zuu> Finding motherboard errors are quite hard. You only know after having replaced the mother bord for sure :-)
23:45:58  <PeterT> will they be updated?
23:45:58  <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: have you done a memtest?
23:46:06  <PeterT> doesn't DorpsGek have logs?
23:46:16  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: i think they died with _42_
23:46:16  * welshdragon can do one now
23:46:23  <Yexo> no public logs at least, dunno if it keeps logs
23:46:36  <Rhamphoryncus> heller: for the exit path off an intersection you want the next stopping point pushed far enough back that the train won't block the intersection
23:46:39  <PeterT> " * Darkvater slaps Bjarni "
23:46:40  <guru3> Yexo: new ones
23:46:50  <PeterT> thanks guru3
23:46:59  <Yexo> has #openttd logs
23:47:00  <peter1138> @seen bjarni
23:47:00  <DorpsGek> peter1138: bjarni was last seen in #openttd 16 weeks, 5 days, 3 hours, 46 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <Bjarni> Belugas: there is no reason to write to PeterT. We already know he is unable to read anyway :P
23:47:04  <glx> guru3's site IIRC ;)
23:47:05  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: that's a "very typical" quote ;)
23:47:06  <Rubidium> oh... good old igor2code
23:47:30  <PeterT> peter1138 has the most lines
23:47:35  <PeterT> congrats peter1138
23:47:40  <Yexo> thanks guru3
23:47:46  <guru3> i had some down time on the stats when my server crashed
23:47:49  <peter1138> gosh
23:47:52  <guru3> but it should all be up to date now
23:47:53  <PeterT> * dih slaps Belugas
23:47:55  <peter1138> how did that happen
23:47:55  <PeterT> lol
23:47:59  <peter1138> considering i was gone for years
23:48:01  <Eddi|zuHause> i find it funny how guru3 idles here for years, and pops up at the right moment to advertise his site :p
23:48:09  <PeterT> lol -> "Apokalipz wrote an average of 75.00 words per line. "
23:48:14  <Rubidium> oh noes... now PeterT has a reason to spam this channel even more :(
23:48:19  <glx> HL I guess Eddi|zuHause
23:48:27  <PeterT> maybe Apokalipz wrote 75 words once and left
23:48:36  <guru3> Eddi|zuHause: there's a thing in irssi for highlights
23:48:41  <guru3> i set it to my url...
23:48:43  <glx> Rubidium: too bad now we have a reason to ban him :)
23:48:50  <welshdragon> what am I looking for in this MemTest?
23:48:52  <guru3> and now it's been so long that i've forgotten the command for setting it
23:48:58  <fonsinchen> I'll comment on those statements made about cargodist before (by Yexo and peter1138):
23:49:06  <welshdragon> there's 0 errors
23:49:16  <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: anything that says "error" after running for a whole night
23:49:27  <fonsinchen> I know the issue with desyncs and I have designed the threading with that in mind.
23:49:46  <welshdragon> i have to leave it a whole night O_O
23:50:04  <peter1138> welshdragon, are you running memtest86?
23:50:07  <welshdragon> yes
23:50:08  <fonsinchen> All desync bugs in cargodist so far were not caused by design problems and I haven't seen a desync report for a long time now.
23:50:10  <peter1138> the one that runs instead of linux?
23:50:17  <welshdragon> yes
23:50:18  <guru3> really did wish i remember what that command was now
23:50:20  <peter1138> great
23:50:24  <peter1138> it should be still running
23:50:27  <welshdragon> it is
23:50:28  <peter1138> it'll take a while
23:50:38  <PeterT> perhaps a command @logs is in order?
23:50:39  <welshdragon> it's on test #4
23:50:55  <Rubidium> please wait till it's fully finished with all its loops before saying it isn't the hardware
23:51:01  <glx> first tests are fast :)
23:51:10  <welshdragon> yeah
23:51:20  <Eddi|zuHause> one of the later tests showed a sticky bit for me
23:51:22  <welshdragon> this one's taking longer
23:51:33  <PeterT> wow, yorick really has been on this channel for a while
23:51:38  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not entirely sure, might be test 7 or 8
23:51:43  <fonsinchen> And the patch is large, but I keep it divided into several smaller chunks.
23:51:46  <PeterT> and has been kicked 55 times?
23:51:53  <peter1138> it'll run multiple passes
23:51:53  <glx> only?
23:51:55  <guru3> ah, it's /hilight!
23:52:04  <peter1138> sometimes things don't get picked up on the first few
23:52:08  <guru3> and now i can fade back into oblivion to once again jump at at unsuspecting chatters
23:52:17  <peter1138> so you need to run it at least a day
23:52:18  <Eddi|zuHause> is that the guy we banned for a month without noticing?
23:52:59  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i say too many lines...
23:53:12  <Eddi|zuHause> especially between 0 and 6
23:53:15  <welshdragon> did any of you devs notice the error was in a different file?
23:53:17  *** mgmuscari [] has joined #openttd
23:53:29  <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause: Yorick?
23:53:32  *** dashavoo [] has joined #openttd
23:53:33  <PeterT> lol you banned him
23:53:44  <Yexo> yes welshdragon, and that only confirms that's it's likely a hardware problem
23:53:50  <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: it's irrelevant, it's not the fault of the file
23:53:52  <mgmuscari> is it possible to change the size of the fonts used for the map legends? changing the font faces and sizes in openttd.cfg doesn't seem to do anything for me
23:53:59  * welshdragon hifives dashavoo
23:54:17  <Yexo> mgmuscari: change both small_size and small_font
23:54:26  <Yexo> smalL_font should have the name of a font you want to use
23:54:30  <Eddi|zuHause> mgmuscari: must also enforce using a font other than the builtin one
23:54:36  <Yexo> small_size only works if you use a custom font
23:54:42  <mgmuscari> Yexo: is there a case under which it will go back to the default?
23:54:53  *** Cybertinus [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:54:58  <Yexo> just remove the line from openttd.cfg and it'll get the defautl value again
23:55:05  <mgmuscari> i mean
23:55:09  <glx> it defaults to TTD sprites
23:55:13  <Rubidium> if the font can't be found I reckon (or the name is empty)
23:55:27  <glx> unless TTD sprites miss chars
23:55:55  <mgmuscari> Rubidium: alright, that's what i figured.... how does it expect gnu/linux fonts to be specified?
23:55:59  <mgmuscari> by name or by filename?
23:56:08  <Rubidium> something that fontconfig can resolve
23:56:21  <Rubidium> and IIRC full paths to fonts work too
23:56:42  <Rubidium> full as in absolute
23:57:58  *** Chrill [~chrischri@] has joined #openttd
23:59:09  <mgmuscari> ah, thanks
23:59:14  <mgmuscari> anything that shows in fc-list
23:59:21  <glx> yup

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