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00:00:34 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@p5B2B1496.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 00:04:08 *** tokai [~tokai@p5B2B23AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:06:09 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:07:17 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has joined #openttd 00:32:52 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76F74.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:33:27 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74820.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:41:59 *** darkmonkey [~josh@94-194-62-217.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:45:09 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:47:38 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:48:18 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:50:52 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 00:52:30 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@188.126.203.230] has joined #openttd 00:54:42 *** welshdragon [~markmac@client-82-26-76-175.bmly.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: welshdragon] 00:57:54 *** DaZ [~ident-dwa@drs28.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 01:01:08 *** welshdragon [~markmac@client-82-26-76-175.bmly.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 01:02:04 *** DaZ_ [~ident-dwa@aaul201.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:05:26 *** welshdragon [~markmac@client-82-26-76-175.bmly.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 01:15:10 *** sparrL2 [~kvirc@c-24-98-228-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:27:50 *** MegaDeath409 [~MegaDeath@dpc674473189.direcpc.com] has joined #openttd 01:28:29 <MegaDeath409> Hey what revision is the ottd1.0beta1? 01:29:50 <glx> it's tags/1.0.0-beta1 01:30:07 <glx> revision is not important 01:31:03 <MegaDeath409> i need the revision number previous to or after it so i know which version of infrastructure sharing to get 01:31:41 <MegaDeath409> ok a better question would be "Is r18637 before or after 1.0.0-beta1?" 01:31:53 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B385.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:32:29 <glx> after 01:32:37 <MegaDeath409> ok thank you :) 01:35:19 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 01:36:53 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has joined #openttd 01:37:21 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has quit [] 01:37:34 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has joined #openttd 01:40:16 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 01:44:58 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: 540 seconds] 01:46:57 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:47:03 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 01:47:54 *** KenjiE20|LT [~KenjiE20@host86-170-57-13.range86-170.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 01:48:25 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.19.96.67] has quit [Quit: ????] 01:51:28 *** Sweet|Home [~Sweet@81-86-165-20.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:55:41 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db1a5f2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: gn8] 02:00:15 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:00:53 *** dragonhorseboy [~zerovnc@modemcable246.69-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 02:00:55 <dragonhorseboy> hey 02:03:01 <NeosaD> ^^ 02:11:40 <dragonhorseboy> so what doing? 02:14:58 *** Choco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DAA94.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:15:03 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 02:15:27 <NeosaD> me? 02:15:52 <NeosaD> I'm going crazy with mingw and wget ... 02:16:45 <dragonhorseboy> heh ok 02:17:07 <NeosaD> i'm folowing this ->http://wiki.openttd.org/Mingw 02:17:36 <NeosaD> but in the part of compiling wget... 02:21:54 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DB515.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:21:54 *** Choco-Banana-Man is now known as Coco-Banana-Man 02:26:04 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:32:50 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tsch?ss] 02:33:23 *** dragonhorseboy [~zerovnc@modemcable246.69-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [] 02:36:39 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 02:45:43 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:51:46 *** KenjiE20|LT [~KenjiE20@host86-170-57-13.range86-170.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:58:29 *** JVassie [~TheExile^@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:06:37 *** MegaDeath409 [~MegaDeath@dpc674473189.direcpc.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:13:38 *** slas [~chatzilla@25.201.216.81.static.s-o.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:36:34 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DAA94.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Regel Nr. 1: Jeder hört auf mein Kommando! - Regel Nr. 2: Jeder bleibt auf dem Weg! - Regel Nr. 3: ... ... Der, der bläht, als hinterster geht!] 04:01:56 *** llugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c1f6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 04:06:52 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has joined #openttd 04:09:09 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8ca72.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:19:38 *** llugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c1f6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:23:40 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: ecke] 04:37:01 *** slas [~AndChat@25.201.216.81.static.s-o.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 04:43:26 *** slas [~AndChat@25.201.216.81.static.s-o.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 04:44:18 *** slas [~AndChat@25.201.216.81.static.s-o.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 04:44:35 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-165-135-113.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 04:58:49 *** Chrill [~chrischri@80.216.60.117] has quit [] 05:11:29 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 05:32:37 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:78e9:4be3:1ff5:6ccb] has quit [Quit: bye] 05:47:36 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: 540 seconds] 05:54:09 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm82.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 06:55:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Administr@89.246.221.81] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:56:10 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Administr@89.246.221.81] has joined #openttd 07:08:30 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:03:54 *** thingwath [~thingwath@88.83.164.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:10:05 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.112.19.55.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 08:15:49 *** thingwath [~thingwath@88.83.164.57] has joined #openttd 08:33:26 *** Madis [~stabuinte@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 08:40:50 *** DarkED [~J@cpe-075-176-105-070.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 08:58:41 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d199-126-251-5.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 08:59:38 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 09:01:29 *** slas [~AndChat@25.201.216.81.static.s-o.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:08:13 *** slas [~AndChat@c-4f667385-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #openttd 09:08:14 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@93.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 09:08:52 <Terkhen> good morning 09:19:11 <andythenorth> morning 09:22:23 <peter1138> cold= 09:31:56 <Eddi|zuHause> my satellite antenna is snowed in... 09:32:22 <Eddi|zuHause> so my overnight recordings are garbage 09:32:40 <Lachie> fail 09:32:46 <Eddi|zuHause> and now i can't even tune... 09:33:50 <sawtooth> its -20F outside at the moment. I wonder if owen is having 2nd thoughts about his move to Minnesota :) 09:34:43 *** Madis [~stabuinte@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:34:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea how much -20F is... 09:35:15 <SpComb> -22?C here 09:35:39 <SpComb> power even cut out during the night 09:35:52 <sawtooth> -20F is -29C 09:36:01 *** TrueBrain_ [~truebrain@145.118.72.64] has joined #openttd 09:36:26 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@145.118.72.64] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:36:40 <sawtooth> i should really get some sleep though 09:40:30 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd 09:41:59 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has joined #openttd 09:46:21 <peter1138> mmm, global warming :D 09:46:33 <SpComb> ofc 09:47:54 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.112.19.55.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:48:07 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.112.19.55.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 09:50:23 *** Luukland [~Luukland@s559031d6.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 09:52:56 <andythenorth> Terkhen: I think it would be acceptable to change the steel mill color on a grey mini-map background... 09:55:03 <Terkhen> okay, I'll try changing the steel mill and bank colours, I'll post a screenshot when I'm done 09:57:33 <peter1138> don't 09:57:47 <peter1138> you have to check for similar colours when drawing 09:59:20 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:08:17 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DF8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:10:58 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 10:10:59 *** Sweet|Home [~Sweet@81-86-165-20.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #openttd 10:11:11 <Alberth> better yet, make it customizable so everybody can use his own favorite colours 10:12:07 <Luukland> Just remember KISS guys, keep it short & simple 10:12:26 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AFAEA7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:15:22 <Terkhen> customizable standard industry colours or customizable heightmap colours? 10:15:58 <Terkhen> peter1138: you mean a generic check? to not use any colours used in the heightmap? 10:21:43 <planetmaker> good morning 10:21:50 <Terkhen> good morning planetmaker 10:22:05 <planetmaker> concerning the colour choices I like to propose to look at http://colorbrewer2.org/ for possible inspiration 10:22:15 <planetmaker> Those colours even work with my boss ;-) 10:22:44 <planetmaker> E.g. they work well for people with limited colour perception 10:24:30 <peter1138> Terkhen, i mean that newgrf industries set their own colour, which can conflict too 10:24:39 <planetmaker> he, indeed... 10:27:09 <Terkhen> I could cycle through all industries, mark all of their colours as used, then check the industries that have conflictive colours and assign them an unused colour instead... anyone has a simpler idea? 10:28:33 <Terkhen> I would also need a way of deciding which colour should be assigned, to not make two industries look too much alike 10:32:32 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 10:39:25 <planetmaker> Terkhen: "not too much alike": It might be a good idea to use for that end a kind of pre-defined (or a few of those) colour cycles. Using that one with the fewest unused colours. 10:40:06 <peter1138> hmm... is it possible to do something else, like outline the industries 10:40:18 <planetmaker> hm, nice idea :-) 10:40:23 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@188.126.203.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:40:24 <Terkhen> peter1138: I like that :) 10:41:24 <Terkhen> then it only needs a single colour that don't conflicts with the heightmap colours 10:41:57 <planetmaker> like black 10:42:12 <planetmaker> e.g. like the off-map colour 10:42:24 <planetmaker> that can be safely re-used 10:44:03 *** worldemar [~woldemar@188.122.240.12] has joined #openttd 10:44:30 <andythenorth> @seen frosch123 10:44:30 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: frosch123 was last seen in #openttd 13 hours, 3 minutes, and 26 seconds ago: <frosch123> night 10:53:44 *** fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbabb4f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:54:37 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=40917&p=845119#p845119 10:54:40 <andythenorth> thoughts? 10:58:36 <andythenorth> Terkhen: greyscale map looks good 10:58:43 <andythenorth> I'd use a much closer range of greys 10:59:00 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s5591a1ba.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 10:59:10 <andythenorth> are those greys 16 through 23? 10:59:21 <Hyronymus> good morning 10:59:23 <andythenorth> (in dec) 10:59:41 <Hyronymus> question 10:59:58 <Hyronymus> I found a thread about a combined climate experiment 11:00:14 <Hyronymus> was something ever released 11:00:42 <Hyronymus> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=36764 11:00:43 <Terkhen> andythenorth: http://paste.openttd.org/220826 11:00:48 <Rubidium> if it was in miniin or one of the first ottd gaming day binaries 11:01:47 <andythenorth> Terkhen: which numbers are which in that paste? I could make assumptions, but they're probably wrong :o 11:02:20 <andythenorth> the tuple-like structures look like they contain rgb? 11:02:31 <Terkhen> penultimate row is dec, last one is hex 11:02:51 <Terkhen> yes, I used RGB to order them 11:03:32 <andythenorth> do you need a full 16 greys? 11:04:00 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74820.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:04:15 <Terkhen> yes, otherwise the heightmap would lose detail 11:04:27 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74820.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:04:35 <andythenorth> don't think the detail matters on that map at that size. It's dithered anyway. I'd use 8 colours. 11:04:51 <andythenorth> 16-23 from Alberth's chart 11:05:23 <planetmaker> I agree with andy. 8 distinctions should suffice. 11:05:34 <planetmaker> and makes it a hell lot of easier. 11:05:35 <andythenorth> of course, if more height levels made it to trunk.... 11:05:44 <andythenorth> but no, let's not worry about that 11:05:51 <planetmaker> ^ :-) 11:06:04 <planetmaker> and I still don't understand FIRS disabling NARS2 :-( 11:06:11 <Terkhen> if height levels made it to trunk, it would need the complete palette anyways 11:06:22 *** JVassie [~TheExile^@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:06:30 <andythenorth> planetmaker: we need to fix that FIRS issue, NARS 2 is my default testing trainset for FIRS :o 11:06:35 <Hyronymus> never made to miniin 11:09:51 <planetmaker> uhm... andythenorth: it works for me without change... 11:10:20 <planetmaker> NARS2 and FIRS are fine here. 11:10:30 <andythenorth> planetmaker: have you disabled NARS regearing? 11:10:38 <planetmaker> no 11:10:48 <planetmaker> no parameters anywhere 11:11:04 <andythenorth> interesting 11:11:21 <andythenorth> If I set a NARS 2 param, FIRS becomes compatible with it again 11:11:40 <planetmaker> but even with 11:12:28 <andythenorth> even more interesting, I've cleared all params, and everything is now fine 11:12:43 <planetmaker> works both ways for me. For both orders (NARS first, NARS last) 11:12:47 <planetmaker> no other newgrfs. 11:12:55 <planetmaker> Did you have any others? Like ECS town? 11:12:57 <andythenorth> parameters are going to be 'cached' by my newgrf.cfg, right? 11:13:11 <planetmaker> not cached. It sets a flag, if that param is used 11:13:27 <planetmaker> which it later queries and decides to do nothing about :-P 11:13:29 <andythenorth> hmm...well the issue is gone now 11:14:01 <planetmaker> (e.g. regearing is detected as it eats a cargo, but it doesn't modify our cargo translation table, so no action needs taking) 11:14:23 <planetmaker> so... it works for you, too? Then I close the issue 11:14:44 <planetmaker> or... did you have any other newgrf active around that time? By any chance? 11:15:04 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I can reproduce it by setting further NARS parameters 11:15:18 <planetmaker> further? Like which? 11:15:18 <andythenorth> 0 7 2 11 0 1 disables FIRS 11:15:25 <Terkhen> adding an outline to the industries is not easy... the smallmap works at tile level, and a tile with outline looks really ugly 11:15:25 <andythenorth> http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=NARS_GRF_Parameters 11:15:33 <planetmaker> let's see, yes I have that page open :-) 11:15:44 <andythenorth> Terkhen: an outline will suck, especially for small industries located in towns 11:16:51 <andythenorth> planetmaker: just set the first param to 0 and FIRS will disable 11:17:04 <andythenorth> maybe that was present before we templated 11:17:15 <andythenorth> maybe we can assign it to FooBar :P 11:17:30 <planetmaker> uhm, no, andythenorth ? 11:18:19 <planetmaker> also your parameter choice as just quoted works here 11:20:08 <andythenorth> planetmaker: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/537/Snapshot_2010-01-03_11-18-21.png 11:20:37 <planetmaker> andy: please disable FISH and try without 11:20:48 <andythenorth> that is in r18694 btw 11:20:53 <planetmaker> it also has a warning. 11:21:03 <Alberth> Terkhen: and when zoomed-out (if we ever get that) it gets worse 11:21:20 <Terkhen> yes... I'm out of nice solutions 11:22:12 <Alberth> I hate it when that happens 11:22:53 <andythenorth> planetmaker: there are so many combinations :( 11:23:10 <andythenorth> the problem is reproducible, but I'm not sure which combinations cause it 11:23:14 <Terkhen> I could just implement an automatic replace of brown industry colours (53-59) to something else 11:23:14 <planetmaker> please just check w/o anything else :-) Just FIRS + NARS2 11:23:37 <Terkhen> but that's just a hack 11:23:38 <Alberth> Terkhen: it would work for you, but not in general 11:24:02 <Noldo> what do those magic browns do anyway? 11:24:15 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I did that. Setting value 2 for NARS param 1 does work 11:24:21 <Alberth> Noldo: Terkhen doesn't like them 11:24:33 <Terkhen> Noldo: they have the magic power of confusing r-g colour blind people 11:24:58 <Noldo> show me, I have that 11:25:05 <planetmaker> andythenorth: that screeny is different, though ;-) 11:25:16 <planetmaker> but I wouldn't understand FISH influence either... 11:25:21 <Terkhen> just open any temperate game and try to find an iron ore mine 11:26:29 <Terkhen> at the smallmap 11:26:33 <planetmaker> can you send me your processed NFO (sprites/firs.nfo)? I'm using r18684) 11:26:58 <andythenorth> I'll pm it through the forum? 11:27:02 <planetmaker> ok 11:27:10 <Terkhen> what about a button at the smallmap to quickly switch from green to another heightmap? I'd still need to find a complete range of colours for the alternate heightmap... 11:27:41 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@160.103.200-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd 11:28:07 <Alberth> it sounds like an ad-hoc solution 11:28:08 <andythenorth> Terkhen: I think that would be perfect. 11:28:21 <andythenorth> 'sensible defaults' :) 11:28:35 <andythenorth> planetmaker: pm sent 11:28:40 <planetmaker> ty 11:29:31 <andythenorth> Terkhen: try 16-23 :) The green heightmap only uses 7 colours according to Alberth's palette. 11:29:59 <andythenorth> just double them up (2 entries the same) :) 11:30:13 <Alberth> Terkhen: wouldn't you get the same effect by using the 'show height' button, and replacing the plain green colour with another one? 11:30:27 <Alberth> andythenorth: yes, they are dithered 11:30:35 <andythenorth> the dithering looks good 11:30:39 <andythenorth> it's needed 11:31:05 <Alberth> I don't like the vertical stripy effect 11:31:38 <Terkhen> Alberth: that would be enough 11:32:17 <Terkhen> I'm going to try both options 11:32:27 <andythenorth> Alberth: vertical stripes makes it look 'technical' and kind of cool 11:32:41 <andythenorth> we used to stripe web page backgrounds like that 'back in the day' 11:32:56 <Alberth> oh, the '95 look :) 11:35:01 <Noldo> hmm, I can find Iron ore mines, but it takes some concentration 11:35:31 <Noldo> my r-g blindness is somewhat mild though 11:35:52 <Terkhen> mine too, but it is still a pain to search for them 11:36:48 <planetmaker> andythenorth: can you send me a savegame where it doesn't work and the (compiled) newgrfs which it loads? 11:37:12 <planetmaker> the actual tars / grfs from your data dir of that game? Not from your dev / repo dirs? 11:37:17 <planetmaker> I really fail to reproduce it. 11:37:30 <andythenorth> planetmaker: (back in 10 mins) 11:38:53 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@p5B2B1496.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:38:59 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DAA94.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:41:08 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@p5B2B0372.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:46:01 *** Grelouk_ [~Grelouk@150.107.119-80.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd 11:46:22 <Terkhen> I did not know about dithering, the gray heightmap looks now really good... I could add a configuration option that would let the user select between "green", "gray" and probably other colours 11:46:37 <Terkhen> it would affect both the heightmap and the normal ground colour 11:47:51 <planetmaker> hm, the diff tells me you use the same compatibility code indeed... 11:48:58 <Noldo> hmm, I wonder why openttd won't exit when I select quit from the menu and then yes 11:49:10 <andythenorth> planetmaker: sent you the grfs 11:49:25 <planetmaker> thx. Also savegame? 11:49:31 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8d675.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:49:42 <andythenorth> I'll make one 11:49:55 <andythenorth> FIRS just disables when I start a new game 11:51:27 <andythenorth> planetmaker: sent 11:51:49 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@160.103.200-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:52:39 *** _ln [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Quit: EURx1t] 11:53:26 <planetmaker> ah, you also set a FIRS parameter! 11:53:55 <andythenorth> planetmaker: still disabled without that param set 11:54:44 <andythenorth> I've cleared all params and have the same issue. want the save? 11:55:07 <planetmaker> yes 11:55:13 <Terkhen> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=46586&p=845150#p845150 11:55:54 <andythenorth> planetmaker: sent 11:56:01 <andythenorth> afk for a bit 11:56:06 <andythenorth> Terkhen: looks nice :D 11:56:35 <Yexo> Terkhen: is the last screenshot a flat map or just all heights are the same grey? 11:56:56 <Terkhen> a screenshot with height turned off 11:57:11 <andythenorth> Terkhen: maybe brown would show better on 128-135 11:57:28 <andythenorth> just a thought :D 12:02:34 <Terkhen> I'll try it too... for now I'm going to code this as a configurable option... I'll need to be able to change between colours easily to test properly 12:08:50 *** luk3Z [~chatzilla@adme175.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 12:08:58 <luk3Z> hello 12:10:29 <luk3Z> I have question to someone who is developer 12:10:47 <planetmaker> andythenorth: please push your changes r416...r419(M) 12:11:03 <planetmaker> I get the error with your grf, but not with the one I can compile / install 12:11:12 <Yexo> luk3Z: as long as you don't ask your real question you won't get an answer to that 12:11:45 <Alberth> not to mention there are lots of different devlopers here 12:12:06 <planetmaker> which is... strange 12:12:31 <Alberth> files are the same? 12:12:40 <Alberth> cmp file1 file2 12:12:43 <luk3Z> it is possible to add variable taxes/cost for building/maintence constructons depend on your city rating ? 12:13:01 <peter1138> almost anything is possible 12:13:29 *** dragonhorseboy [~zerovnc@modemcable246.69-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 12:13:29 <heffer> luk3Z, i think it would be best if you opened a ticket in the bugtracker, then all the developers can look into it 12:13:45 <luk3Z> and 2nd one: have someone created "traffic" mini map already ? 12:13:47 <Yexo> heffer: no, asking here is fine 12:13:56 <Alberth> I would suggest to post it to the suggestions forum :) 12:14:04 <Yexo> what do you mean with a traffic minimap? 12:14:05 <dragonhorseboy> traffic? 12:14:15 <Alberth> traffic density perhaps? 12:14:21 <heffer> oh i see. the way i use to do this in other Open Source project is to file a bug 12:14:33 <heffer> so the forum is preferred then? 12:14:51 <Yexo> heffer: posting a feature request at the bug tracker is fine, but only if you have a clearly defined feature 12:15:00 <luk3Z> "busy lines" I saw lately grf and grass on threes, so dose it mean that some parameters can indicate traffic on the cracks ? 12:15:01 <Alberth> bug tracker is for the more mature issues 12:15:05 <Yexo> posting it on the forum can help get your idea discussed 12:15:20 <Yexo> no luckz 12:15:30 <Yexo> the grass on tracks grf needs a custom patch to work 12:15:40 <Yexo> and I think it's pretty old 12:15:58 <luk3Z> *grass on the tracks sorry for mistajke 12:16:06 <Alberth> luk3Z: that data is not generated by the program 12:16:11 <dragonhorseboy> yexo I think a better idea might be from one of the patch that was used in the last mini-in build... 12:16:43 <dragonhorseboy> it could tell you how many trains had passed over one piece of rail as I think I recall .. you could simply take that and add to the code so very few trains = time to rust the rails 12:16:58 <Yexo> dragonhorseboy: mini-in = very old 12:17:07 <Yexo> so patches from that don't apply to trunk normally 12:17:07 <dragonhorseboy> yexo..but the features aren't 12:17:20 <dragonhorseboy> and I still have to even see half of the good ones even being actually used yet 12:18:08 <Yexo> true, adding a train counter to waypoints/stations has been discussed some time ago, but I can't remember the details 12:18:13 <luk3Z> I read changelog for 1.0.0b now and I thinking about rerplace OTTD 0.7.5 to 1.0.0b + some sets and start playing/testing 12:18:57 <Yexo> luk3Z: in that case you can update as well to a nightly, since a beta is nothing more then a snapshot from trunk (like a nightly) 12:19:10 <Yexo> and the latest nightly has several bugfixes not in 1.0.0-beta1 12:19:35 <luk3Z> ok thanks for advice I download it soon 12:19:58 *** fonsinchen1 [~alve@brln-4dba873b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:20:04 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 12:21:14 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:21:20 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 12:22:23 *** fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbabb4f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:22:44 <dragonhorseboy> yexo admittly I do recall some of the features added in were only partially completed and/or just had buggy coding in first place anyway 12:23:25 <dragonhorseboy> one thing that didn't work out so well was diagonal road crossings .. sure it worked fine if the roads were done manually but come to a town and for some reason a lot of the town-built road tiles ended up 90 degree from the actual roads themself (alak not connected) 12:23:56 <Yexo> I never played mini-in, so I can't really comment on that 12:24:24 <dragonhorseboy> well .. it would had been nice for these moments of where there's a lot of slow diagonal rails :P 12:24:39 <peter1138> alak? 12:26:28 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.19.96.67] has joined #openttd 12:26:32 <dragonhorseboy> yexo one thing I did wonder about tho .. are they ever going to add more airport types again eventually? (especially as I recall pikka drew up a shoreline airport for water-landing planes to use and at least one of the av8 plane had hulls on it) 12:27:31 <Yexo> dragonhorseboy: yes, it's work ni progess by me currently to allow newgrf airports 12:27:42 <dragonhorseboy> nice 12:28:16 <dragonhorseboy> yexo I've always sometimes found the current airports a bit limited for what I actually wanted to do 12:28:42 <dragonhorseboy> and a few times because City was too squarey-big I've had to use the commuter airport and not be able to safely send eg A780's or so there 12:28:56 <dragonhorseboy> so hmm I guess it figured :) 12:29:20 <Yexo> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=45654 forum post 12:29:23 *** JVassie [~TheExile^@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:29:59 <Yexo> no real progress the last 2 months, but it's certainly not dead 12:30:46 <dragonhorseboy> yexo btw peter there above ^^ was the one who did freight train multiplier as it would seem 12:30:54 <dragonhorseboy> its in the mini-in features list 12:32:04 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 12:32:07 <Alberth> luk3Z: traffic density question: suppose I have a single track with 10 tile blocks. There are 7 trains / month using it. Next to it, there is another single track with 5 tile blocks, used by 8 trains / month. Which one is more busy? 12:32:21 <Alberth> I think the 10 tile track 12:32:26 <Eoin> 5? 12:32:29 <Eoin> i would say 12:32:48 <Eoin> but im not awake :D 12:33:14 <Alberth> trains at both tracks have equal length 12:33:39 <Alberth> then the 5 tile track can push about twice as many trains / month I think 12:34:17 <Alberth> ie the 10 tile tile track runs into its limits earlier 12:34:33 <dragonhorseboy> oh yeah yexo I still dunno if it was a nice feature or not but in mini-in there was a subsidiaries where you could eg have company #1 which 'runs' company #2 and company #3 (finances are as if they were independent instead) and could easily merge them back into company #1 any time freely 12:34:39 <Alberth> so how do you measure traffic density? 12:34:59 <dragonhorseboy> or think of it a bit like owning SNCF and also 'managing' FRET .. and if things gets really bad you can merge both back into just SNCF itself 12:35:50 <luk3Z> sorry I read changelog I think it should be sum all tracks div by all trains in month 12:36:19 *** dennis [~dennis@a83-161-238-190.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 12:36:19 <Alberth> tracks are equally long 12:37:13 <Alberth> which would point you to the 5 tile track, thus the wrong one, as I see it 12:37:34 <luk3Z> traffic for 1 tile (monthly): number of trains; traffic for all track (monthly): sum for all tiles/number of tiles 12:38:16 <luk3Z> wait I'll write it more clear 12:38:47 *** fedor1992 [~fedor1992@95-27-146-17.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 12:38:55 *** fedor1992 [~fedor1992@95-27-146-17.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 12:38:56 <Alberth> you agree the 10 tile track is more busy? 12:40:07 *** elmz_ [~elmz@vpn-222099.vpn-s.ntnu.no] has joined #openttd 12:40:10 <dennis> hey guys, i've seen 0.7.5C, where to download it? 12:40:12 <luk3Z> TRA_1TIL [traffic for 1 tile (monthly)]: number of trains on 1 tile; TRA_ALL_TIL [traffic for all track (monthly)]: TRA_1TIL+TRA_nTIL+TRA_n+1TIL/x*TRA_nTIL 12:40:57 <dragonhorseboy> yexo did I lost you or no? 12:41:05 <Rubidium> dennis: that is a really good question, sadly enough I've got no idea 12:41:15 <Yexo> dragonhorseboy: no, sorry, was busy with coding 12:41:21 <luk3Z> 10 are busiest becouse of lenght... 12:41:29 <dragonhorseboy> yexo ok no problem ;) 12:41:31 <Yexo> I read about that subsidiaries thing, don't see a reason for it myself 12:43:07 *** NeosaD [~Alty@167.Red-79-144-147.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:43:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r18696 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_tile.cpp ai_tile.hpp): -Fix [FS#3404]: AITile::IsCoastTile returned false for coast tiles with trees on them. 12:43:20 <peter1138> C? heh 12:44:25 <Yexo> dennis: the real question is, where did you see that version? 12:44:26 <dragonhorseboy> yexo well I did keep wishing for a similiar feature tho..especially when coupled with IS2.1.1 ... managing seperate specialized companies that don't have any overlap except for forwarding excessive profits to where its having problems being in the red 12:45:15 <Alberth> luk3Z: number of trains at 1 tile already fails, doesn't it? 12:45:19 <dennis> luukland 12:45:20 <dragonhorseboy> to our own I guess (is it a wonder I named my last two companies after eg LNER+BR etc because of how these should had been splitted companies in first place but I was too lazy to try take up two passworded company slots 12:45:24 <dennis> server 4 i think 12:45:31 <luk3Z> yes but it is example 12:45:42 *** NeosaD [~Alty@32.Red-83-50-196.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 12:46:49 <Alberth> luk3Z: the problem is that you need a good formula to compute density, otherwise you point user to the wrong tracks, and they spend their earnings upgrading the wrong track 12:47:09 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:47:09 <luk3Z> TRA_1TIL is good how you calculate no of trains in 1 tile / 12:47:35 <dragonhorseboy> I just had to check for IS threads and hmm meh this turned up. I really like the maxsize and minspeed ideas :/ http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=90506 12:47:50 *** Madis [~stabuinte@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 12:47:54 <Eoin> wait 12:47:55 <dragonhorseboy> no cluttered mainlines because someone failed to check before sending several slow trains in 12:48:02 <Eoin> does that airport actually function Yexo 12:48:12 <Eoin> the diagonal one in newairport 12:48:21 <Yexo> yes Eoin 12:48:23 <luk3Z> TRA_ALL_TIL is wrong I try improve it on the paper ;) 12:48:34 <Eoin> oohoo 12:48:35 <Eoin> shiny 12:48:48 <Alberth> luk3Z: sure, but since the length of both tracks is the same, your computation gives the wrong result 12:49:33 <Luukland> Ah yeah this 0.7.5C is mine :P 12:49:42 <Yexo> dragonhorseboy: minspeed doesn't work, because if the engine isn't powerfull enough it'll never reach full speed so it's still slower then minspeed 12:49:42 <Alberth> luk3Z: of course, then you only have to decide how to count density over tracks that split halfway 12:49:47 *** Hyronymus is now known as Hyr|afk 12:50:02 <luk3Z> you mean your example with trains or may equation ? 12:50:39 <Alberth> in the equation. You want correct result at all situations, right? 12:50:39 <dragonhorseboy> yexo well how about eg a line that is supposed to be for express freights so its set to eg 140km/h minimum and so that way the engines maybe can vary (up to 200km/h even) but noone can send in a slow 76km/h train to stuck up the flow 12:51:02 <luk3Z> Alberth: yes it is wrong anyway 12:51:06 <Alberth> luk3Z: my example was just to show that number of trains means little 12:51:08 <Yexo> dragonhorseboy: how about I send a very fast passengr engine (so low power) with several full coal wagons attached 12:51:18 <Yexo> it'll never reach it's max speed because it isn't powerfull enough 12:51:35 <luk3Z> Alberth: and we have to assume that shorter tracks will be less busy 12:51:41 <dragonhorseboy> yexo you're nuts if you're playing so badly anyway 12:51:42 <dragonhorseboy> ;) 12:52:20 <Yexo> dragonhorseboy: that option is a global option, so it doesn't work if you want fast trains on part of your tracks and slow trains are allowed on other parts 12:52:28 <luk3Z> Alberth: and we should skip all breaking down for now 12:52:32 <Eoin> i really like the idea 12:52:37 <dragonhorseboy> yexo well it does if you add in subsidiaries 12:52:38 <Yexo> so what you really need is something like restrictie signalling what ttdpatch has 12:52:54 <Yexo> or waypoint restrictions, there have been a few patches for that in the development forum 12:53:15 <Alberth> luk3Z: shorter blocks may be more busy. If I send 1 train /month over the 10 tile track, the 5 tile track is more busy 12:53:21 <luk3Z> Alberth: this equation is like proov of concept ;) 12:53:41 <Alberth> it is just the first part of the puzzle 12:55:28 <luk3Z> Alberth: yeah we have to think about number of trains and some cases with other tracks from other stations and other trains 12:55:59 <Alberth> then you must try to come up with an idiotic situation that may happen, and the equation should still give the correct result. If you try that for a while, and cannot incent a situation where the equation breaks, you 've got the first step done for the non-break down case. 12:56:01 <dragonhorseboy> company A-1: 6 tiles platforms max, high charges, 150km/h minimum ... company A-2: no max platform, 50km/h minimum (eg to avoid the snail shunter in ukrs etc) .. company A-3: low charges, no platform/speed restrictions 12:56:15 <Alberth> s/incent/invent/ 12:56:27 <luk3Z> Alberth: I propose for 1st equation make 2 points A - > B and x trains only 12:56:36 <dragonhorseboy> or setups along that line ;) (A-1 is express and A-2 is freights for the footnote .. A-3 is just basically mixed stuffs or old lines) 12:57:04 *** NeosaD [~Alty@32.Red-83-50-196.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:57:43 <Yexo> dragonhorseboy: that'd work yes, but then subsidiaries is really a requirement 12:58:42 *** NeosaD [~Alty@105.Red-83-50-199.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 12:58:54 <dragonhorseboy> well thats about all I had to say on that ;) 12:59:34 *** DarkED2 [~J@cpe-075-176-105-070.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 13:03:26 <luk3Z> Alberth: how minimap can display density of traffic? can it show 1 tile as few pixels on this minimap or something else ? 13:04:25 <Alberth> no idea, but you are 10 steps ahead or so :) 13:04:38 <Alberth> current smallmap uses 4 pixels for each tile 13:04:40 <luk3Z> Alberth: or maybe changing color of the tracks via switch on the normal map mode ? 13:04:52 * PeterT is suprised at how fast MSVC compiles on Windows XP 13:05:16 <luk3Z> Alberth: or even color of the fence :P 13:05:21 <Alberth> oh, 2 tiles for the tracks at a tile. Different colours would be an option 13:05:29 <Rubidium> it's still way slower than gcc on Linux, minus cross-compiling 13:05:43 <Alberth> see eg the company owners mode 13:06:38 <Terkhen> PeterT: I noticed a slight speedup when I finally moved from Vista to 7, sadly it is still too slow 13:06:43 *** DarkED [~J@cpe-075-176-105-070.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:06:45 <luk3Z> Alberth: I remember it and it looks pretty nice and lear 13:07:02 <PeterT> Terkhen: Vista, I think, is just slow on it's own 13:07:10 <PeterT> I just compiled the 32bpp patch in 3 minutes 13:07:11 <Alberth> luk3Z: first you need a proper formula. then you need to implement it in the game. then you need to have it put into trunk. 13:07:23 <PeterT> that includes patching, setting up directx dirs, compilin 13:07:40 <luk3Z> Alberth: I'm working on it on the paper 13:07:43 <PeterT> true that it is "Creating the browse information file" ATM 13:08:08 <Terkhen> I measure MSVC compiling times on how sleepy I get waiting for it to finish 13:08:24 <luk3Z> Alberth: can we treat 2 tiles as 1 tile on the minimap ? it can be more readable 13:08:45 <Alberth> luk3Z: ok :) you are already further than anybody else I think. They are all just counting trains. 13:09:14 <luk3Z> Alberth: so we have take average form 2 tiles against from 1 tile and it can be mor clear 13:09:33 <Alberth> luk3Z: zoom-out would be nice too. You probably need something like 10-15 tiles put into 4 pixels for displaying 2048x2048 maps 13:10:11 <luk3Z> Alberth: I'm working on equation only - remember 13:10:12 <Alberth> number of colours is very limited 13:10:40 <Alberth> I know 13:11:22 <Terkhen> number of colours is very limited <-- I can attest this 13:12:09 <luk3Z> anyway does soembody know how company owner tracks are displayed on the minimap? If this is checking all tiles 1 by 1 ? 13:12:18 <Alberth> the price to pay for that '95 look :) 13:12:26 <Yexo> yes luk3Z 13:12:27 <Alberth> yes 13:13:05 *** darkmonkey [~josh@94-194-62-217.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:13:40 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-35-5.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 13:14:12 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:14:21 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 13:14:36 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:15:00 <luk3Z> Alberth: how we recognize traffic e.g. for constant numbers or via by variable number of density 13:15:13 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 13:16:23 *** PeterT_ [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 13:16:28 *** PeterT_ [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 13:16:42 <luk3Z> Alberth: if we use max_ as var we can showing traffic more precisely I think 13:17:13 <Alberth> first do the formula, then worry about how to implement I'd say 13:19:06 <luk3Z> Alberth: I working on example with stations A->B and C->D and common 2 tile tracks now 13:19:10 <Alberth> there are limitations to what you can collect, but better worry about that later. 13:19:43 <Alberth> I don't need an update every 5 minutes :) 13:21:04 *** Elessar [D4QJMBHAbb@verne.ortolo.eu] has joined #openttd 13:23:27 <luk3Z> Alberth: ok equation for simple A->B is: TIL1+TILn+TILn+1/n (TIL - number of trains per month on 1 tile; n - number of tiles) for all simple track A->B 13:24:00 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fda15.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:24:08 <PeterT> does anyone know at which revision the "-f" parameter was introduced? 13:27:46 <Alberth> find the file with the -f handler code, do svn blame on that file, look at the revision shown before that code, check with svn log whether that is the right revision. 13:28:10 <Alberth> (ie, no, but you can find out) 13:28:38 <PeterT> the only thing I don't know how to do is to find the -f handler code 13:28:47 <Yexo> it's in openttd.cpp 13:28:50 <PeterT> ok 13:28:52 <luk3Z> does any counter exist in OTTD ofr trains on the tile ? 13:28:58 <Yexo> no 13:29:04 <PeterT> thanks Yexo 13:29:20 <Yexo> luk3Z: and it can't be added easily because the map array is full 13:30:08 <luk3Z> Yexo: but it is possible to add something what count traffic on the tracks ? 13:30:38 <Yexo> I didn't say it was impssible, just hard because the map array is full 13:30:48 <Yexo> so you'd need to either add external storage or enlarge the map array 13:31:01 <Yexo> and personally I don't find this important enough to enlarge the map array 13:31:48 <PeterT> well, I found the author 13:31:53 <PeterT> TrueLight 13:32:03 <PeterT> r1154 apparently 13:32:16 <luk3Z> anybody know how grf grass on the track working and who is the author ? 13:32:31 <Yexo> search the development forum and you need a patch besides that grf 13:32:38 <Yexo> that grf doesn't work without the patch 13:33:26 <PeterT> luk3Z: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=32285 13:34:05 <luk3Z> PeterT: thanks ! 13:34:08 <PeterT> Alberth: http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/rev/e843dd369938 <-- Found it 13:34:13 <PeterT> Don't thank me, thank yexo 13:34:27 <PeterT> he's the one who gave you real advice 13:35:02 <luk3Z> PeterT: thx for link and of course for advices 13:35:12 <Yexo> luk3Z: for future reference: this search gives that topic as first result http://www.google.nl/search?q=grass+growth+site%3Att-forums.net 13:36:00 <Alberth> r1154 is like back in the stone age :) 13:36:08 <PeterT> yeah, I know 13:36:20 <luk3Z> Yexo: I just thought that author will be online on IRC but I was wrong 13:37:27 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: heffer] 13:37:42 <Alberth> even if he was, he may not remember how it works 13:38:34 *** Madis [~stabuinte@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.6/20091201220228]] 13:39:14 <luk3Z> Alberth: right, anyway I abandon this project maybe someone else try to make something similar to this idea 13:43:51 <luk3Z> Alberth: I send priv msg to the author of "Grass growth on unused tracks" and maybe he share his code 13:44:50 <Alberth> you can try, but you can probably download it from the forums already 13:45:05 <Yexo> the code is available in the first post of the topic linked earlier 13:45:23 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AFAEA7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:45:24 <Alberth> ie there is most likely nothing more than what you can get already 13:45:59 <luk3Z> Yexo: you right I check it 13:52:02 <luk3Z> it looks quite interesting it even have future support for tunnels, neighbour checking it is more complex than thought 13:54:55 <Terkhen> http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/docs/ottd-colour-palette.gif <-- what is the english name of colour #128 13:54:58 <Terkhen> ? 13:55:16 <Rubidium> yuck :) 13:55:16 *** ChiiFii [~ChiiFii@91-66-241-185-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 13:55:40 *** ChiiFii [~ChiiFii@91-66-241-185-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [] 13:55:51 <Alberth> that seems a pretty unique name :D 13:56:07 <Terkhen> I like it 13:56:08 <Terkhen> :P 13:58:45 <Alberth> Unices commonly have a file like /usr/share/X11/rgb.txt with a lot of colour names 14:00:14 <Rubidium> it doesn't seem to have a colour name 14:00:42 <Rubidium> it's somewhere between 'valhalla' and 'crescendo' I'd say 14:01:47 <frosch123> dark greyish violet :p 14:02:24 <Rubidium> hmm, actually.. the colour isn't what OpenTTD would give I think 14:02:24 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-248-176.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 14:02:43 <planetmaker> [14:54] <Terkhen> http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/docs/ottd-colour-palette.gif <-- what is the english name of colour #128 <-- I'd call it something like "midnight blue" 14:02:43 *** luk3Z [~chatzilla@adme175.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03:07 <Neon> Does anyone of you know how the duration of one ingame day is? 14:03:20 <planetmaker> 13.5 minutes per year 14:03:27 <Eoin> ^^ 14:03:33 <Neon> Thanks. 14:03:44 *** sam_ch [~Sam@84-73-178-158.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #openttd 14:03:48 <planetmaker> 2.2s per day or so 14:03:55 <planetmaker> iirc 14:03:57 <Alberth> @calc 13.5 * 60 / 356 14:03:57 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 2.27528089888 14:04:06 <frosch123> why is that question asked so often? 14:04:08 <roboboy> is that dependant on your CPU speed? 14:04:17 <Terkhen> I'll put it as violet for now... once I see it working I'll ask for names again 14:04:18 <Rubidium> frosch123: because searching is difficult? 14:04:21 <planetmaker> oh, hello quack^Wfrosch123 14:04:52 <frosch123> well, i mean, why is that information of any interest? 14:05:00 <Alberth> roboboy: as long as you pull less than 100% single core cpu, no 14:05:05 <frosch123> moin pm :) 14:05:20 <Alberth> Neon: why do you want to know? 14:08:14 <dragonhorseboy> any of you ever played with the Denver & Rio Grande or WrightAI ais that can be downloaded from bananas? 14:08:43 <roboboy> I just remember people saying TTD used to be CPU speed dependant in terms of game time speed 14:09:05 <frosch123> dragonhorseboy: wrightai is not really meant to play against :) 14:09:18 <dragonhorseboy> frosch heh and why not? :P 14:09:35 <frosch123> it is a simple example ai for ai writers to start with 14:09:45 <Rubidium> because wrightai is merely a proof-of-concept AI; that shows the basics of an AI 14:10:19 <dragonhorseboy> well its been building so many used airports that I can't believe the goddamn AI is already earning a lot more than my two coal mine rail routes now :p 14:10:42 <andythenorth> hi frosch123 14:11:06 <dragonhorseboy> oh yeah one of the first mine I started with .. stupidly enough the D&RG ai also built there soon too .. talk about competition >_< 14:11:15 <dragonhorseboy> it was the one only biggest mine on map :P 14:12:26 <frosch123> hello andy :) how are the ponys? 14:12:57 <andythenorth> frosch123: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=40917 14:13:34 <andythenorth> I can't remember...that pony might exist already? 14:14:19 <dragonhorseboy> well I guess if AI development keeps up like this .. pretty soon we could have single AIs that would be almost as smart as basic human players :) 14:14:55 * andythenorth and I for one welcome our robot overlords 14:15:12 *** Bjelleklang [~Bjellekla@19.80-202-156.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 14:15:18 <dragonhorseboy> hmmm yeah I could imagine.. an IS game with half human and half AI players 14:15:22 <dragonhorseboy> would be a bit chaotic lol 14:15:24 <frosch123> no, that pony is unavailable 14:15:35 <andythenorth> stupid pony 14:15:49 <andythenorth> I'll draw a landing pad I guess 14:17:01 <andythenorth> :D 14:17:01 <Mks> is it possible to make crossing bridges somehow? 14:17:13 <dragonhorseboy> mks..? 14:17:35 <Mks> well crossing bridges on diffrent levels 14:17:53 <dragonhorseboy> I thought you already could for several versions now 14:18:20 <Mks> ohh doesn't seem possible 14:18:26 <dragonhorseboy> hmm 14:18:44 <frosch123> you can only cross tunnels with the cheats 14:19:03 <Mks> well I mean more have one bridge higher up crossing over a lower bridge 14:19:20 <Mks> I mean its possible without cheat on tunnels to build like that 14:19:38 * andythenorth takes a pony outside and shoots it 14:20:08 <dragonhorseboy> mks personally I'm still waiting for the patch to finally be able to build a simple bridge (something that wouldn't engulf the house in many timber legs heh) across the roof of a house :S 14:20:16 <dragonhorseboy> or even ottd itself either way 14:20:23 <dragonhorseboy> heh 14:20:41 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aeiz61.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 14:20:50 <Mks> that would be nice as well if it was possibel 14:20:53 <Mks> possible 14:21:14 <Mks> I want diagonal tunnels and bridges as well :) 14:21:16 <dragonhorseboy> yeah mks... more than often there's only one or two houses in the way of being able to finish a deep bridge crossing in arctic maps 14:21:19 <dragonhorseboy> :/ 14:21:54 <Mks> well one thing also signaling on bridges and tunnels that would really help 14:22:05 <dragonhorseboy> mks ... heh 14:22:14 <Mks> I belive there is a patch for that but works a bit odd 14:22:16 <dragonhorseboy> and mks diagonal tunnels would be a bit too difficult to enact onto the map 14:22:40 <dragonhorseboy> especially with regarding to tunnel portals as well 14:22:44 <peter1138> freeform bendy tunnels and bridges! 14:23:13 <Alberth> winding loops the easy way 14:23:25 <roboboy> We need locomoptions map array behind OpenTTD 14:23:32 <peter1138> hmm, might as well play locomotion 14:23:33 <peter1138> hehe 14:23:37 <roboboy> *locomotion 14:23:43 <Mks> I got locomotion 14:23:48 <Mks> and its no good 14:23:54 <Mks> its really bad building ui 14:24:08 <roboboy> its good and bads 14:24:21 <Mks> well openttd is better 14:24:35 <roboboy> I find it too hard at the begining 14:24:38 <Mks> I do like the better looking trains and stuff in locomotion 14:24:44 <roboboy> cost wise 14:24:45 <Mks> and maps are silly small 14:24:53 * dragonhorseboy still plays rct once in a while (corkscrew addon as well) 14:25:10 <Mks> and really building and advanced railnetwork is really hard in locomotion if its even possible 14:25:28 <roboboy> but ive heard it suffers the same poblem (O)TTD(P) suffers late in the game 14:25:48 <Mks> what do you mean? 14:26:29 <roboboy> Too much mooneyz 14:26:48 <Mks> ahh well 14:26:57 <Mks> not really a problem :P 14:27:23 <Mks> and really if you build a sucessfull company irl you would eventually end up with alot of money as well 14:27:28 <dragonhorseboy> personally I still think cargo handling is best done in RT2 14:27:49 <Luukland> tooo much money? You should try hard game with competition then :P 14:29:01 <dragonhorseboy> luuk...btw check dbsetxl .. it more or less use real life pricing (except for ICEs which would had been way too expensive for gameplay) .. eg if you started late in 90's .. even with the max loan you only can just about afford one moderate diesel locomotive alone on a short rail line 14:29:24 <peter1138> would have :s 14:29:34 <dragonhorseboy> even if you start early eg in 30's and play it nonstop .. it still doesn't really leave you with much cash even 70 years later 14:30:05 <peter1138> depends how you play 14:30:14 <peter1138> it is easy to end up with loads of money even with dbsetxl 14:30:17 <Terkhen> finished: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=46601 14:30:39 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd 14:30:44 <Terkhen> uploaded with an incorrect name, though 14:30:49 <dragonhorseboy> peter well I've played it many times starting in many different manners .. and still never can afford a fleet of ICEs right off in 2010 even if I tried :) 14:30:57 <dragonhorseboy> to our own I guess 14:31:07 <andythenorth> Terkhen: try it with FIRS :) 14:31:12 <Terkhen> okay 14:31:20 <dragonhorseboy> hey andythenorth .. was wondering when you'll be online again :P 14:31:32 <Luukland> Hmmm dbsetxl, brakes the balance between trains and road vehicles no? 14:31:42 <andythenorth> dragonhorseboy later today...I'm going out now 14:32:07 <dragonhorseboy> ah ok 14:32:15 <andythenorth> bye! 14:32:17 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.112.19.55.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has left #openttd [] 14:32:17 <dragonhorseboy> anydthenorth btw I downloaded the yesterday nightly of FIRS and... 14:32:24 <dragonhorseboy> ..and...oh crap 14:32:27 <dragonhorseboy> :S 14:32:31 <Luukland> Whahaha :P 14:32:36 * dragonhorseboy whacks luukland 14:32:37 <planetmaker> frosch123: I have a newgrf puzzle which I don't understand concerning disabling of FIRS 14:32:38 <dragonhorseboy> >_< 14:33:30 <SpComb> dbsetxl's costs depend on your difficulty settings 14:33:30 <planetmaker> it works for me as intended but not for andythenorth. I sent you the relevant files via tt-forums message. If you have time somewhen, it'd be nice, if you could tell me whether I miss something really obvious 14:33:45 <SpComb> I'm playing with the wrong difficulty settings because I have 1.5 billion EUR in 1964 14:34:04 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:51a5:605f:6852:df2b] has joined #openttd 14:34:07 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 14:34:28 <peter1138> yeha, you should be playing with DEM :) 14:34:34 <peter1138> DM? 14:34:59 <planetmaker> the only real difference between his and my nfo is the line endings. He uses windows style, I use unix style. A diff after having converted line endings is pretty boring. 14:35:23 <dragonhorseboy> yeah I always set it to DEM for dbsetxl .. $ for nars/2cc ... pounds for ukrs 14:35:27 <peter1138> diff should be able to ignore line endings 14:35:34 <peter1138> or any whitespace change 14:35:39 <dragonhorseboy> and whoever thought it was a good idea to use wrong side signals with nars .. well .. curse them :S 14:35:43 <Alberth> -w option afaik 14:41:20 <planetmaker> peter1138: hm, well... I didn't check for options. But I guess, I should. But anyway, a dos2unix on one file resulted in the same 14:42:42 * dragonhorseboy pokes eoin 14:44:43 * roboboy should sleep 14:50:08 *** elmz_ [~elmz@vpn-222099.vpn-s.ntnu.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:50:55 <Rubidium> hahah... clocks going from 2009 to 2016... and people not knowing what's the cause :) 14:51:11 <planetmaker> he? 14:51:13 <Luukland> black holes! 14:51:23 <dragonhorseboy> 7 years leap? something's odd 14:51:24 <Rubidium> http://www.smh.com.au/business/businesses-stung-by-boq-computer-bug-20100103-lmys.html 14:51:38 <KingJ> After Y2K went by without much fanfare, it seems Y2K10 is causing lots of problems 14:52:47 <planetmaker> lool 14:53:04 * dragonhorseboy wonders what kingj was really thinking 14:55:21 <Rubidium> must say using a nibble to store a decimal number is ingenious 14:55:36 <Rubidium> it makes hex human readable 14:58:11 <Alberth> all LCD clocks work in that way 14:59:04 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 14:59:07 <Alberth> but it gives a nice y10k problem :) 14:59:38 <Alberth> oh, 'y10' even 14:59:47 <dragonhorseboy> year 2100 anyone? 15:00:50 <planetmaker> dragonhorseboy: rather y2038: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem 15:01:12 <Rubidium> planetmaker: y2038 is so old already... like dozens of y2038 bugs have been hit 15:01:44 <dragonhorseboy> planetmakers are coders really that lazy? -_- 15:04:15 <Mks> just use 64 bit programs and it doesn't matter anymore 15:04:49 <dragonhorseboy> mks..or use other time keeping codes instead 15:05:08 * dragonhorseboy could set to 1960, 2000, or 2140 without any problem here 15:05:53 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Administr@89.246.221.81] has joined #openttd 15:06:02 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Administr@89.246.221.81] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:07:01 <dragonhorseboy> hmm .. eoin said brb at 8:56 and its 10:06 now .. blah 15:08:50 <dragonhorseboy> oh well what to do now 15:08:54 <planetmaker> he prefers to be back not wrongly 15:09:39 <dragonhorseboy> lol 15:11:39 *** Chrill [~chrischri@80.216.60.117] has joined #openttd 15:12:16 *** Grelouk_ [~Grelouk@150.107.119-80.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 15:12:16 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 15:12:24 * dragonhorseboy puts chrill in freezer 15:12:25 <dragonhorseboy> :) 15:12:31 <Chrill> OH NO 15:12:38 <Chrill> What a greeting 15:12:56 <dragonhorseboy> heh sorry ;) 15:13:02 <Chrill> I feel assaulted 15:14:32 <dragonhorseboy> beside that how're you? 15:14:42 * PeterT puts dragonhorseboy in Chrill 15:15:29 *** peanut [~peanut@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 15:15:32 <Luukland> Now that is ugly 15:15:44 * Luukland gets dragonhorseboy out of Chrill 15:16:07 <Luukland> As good as new :) 15:16:09 * roboboy puts peanut in freezer 15:16:37 * peanut feels salted 15:17:10 <peanut> bye bye 15:17:14 *** peanut [~peanut@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 15:17:17 <dragonhorseboy> :) luukland 15:18:53 <Luukland> Hmmm 0.7.5C is really working, w00t, didn't expect that 15:18:55 * roboboy chill chrill and waits for the loud earsplitting Chrill 15:19:16 <dragonhorseboy> :) 15:20:02 <roboboy> grr 15:21:03 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:21:44 <Luukland> Is a "openttd stopped working error" without the emergency save screen, a bug inside OTTD or just a windows error 15:24:13 <roboboy> gnight if noone replys by the time my screensaver comes on 15:26:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18697 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3471]: crash when scrolling to an item removed by filtering in the 'add NewGRF window' 15:28:07 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 15:28:12 <PeterT> 0.7.5c? 15:28:19 <PeterT> yorick! hello 15:28:23 <yorick> hi 15:28:57 <Luukland> 0.7.5C 15:29:01 <Luukland> with capital C please 15:29:20 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: how is your "improvement" of the default settings going? 15:29:41 <PeterT> Luukland: But what does the capital "C" for? 15:29:49 <PeterT> *what is the capital C for? 15:30:05 <PeterT> pfft, I was asking two questions at once 15:30:20 <dragonhorseboy> heh 15:30:35 <Luukland> C = Competition :) 15:31:47 <dragonhorseboy> what kind of competition? :P 15:32:07 <PeterT> can I have a binary? or a patch? Luukland 15:32:31 <Luukland> Sure 15:32:36 <Luukland> You may have both 15:33:37 <dragonhorseboy> does C already have IS? heh..sounds unlikely 15:33:53 <PeterT> Luukland: I can make you a Linux 32-bit binary 15:33:54 <planetmaker> Rubidium: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/ <-- OOM error 15:34:21 <Luukland> C is only Competition 15:34:25 <Luukland> no other patches 15:34:33 <Luukland> PeterT, I would be glad if you could :) 15:34:38 <dragonhorseboy> so what kind of competition then? 15:34:39 <PeterT> Ok, will later 15:34:40 <Rubidium> planetmaker: bah... stupid track 15:34:43 <dragonhorseboy> ;) 15:34:52 <Luukland> Read the changelog for the changes 15:35:21 <PeterT> Luukland: You can't do that, you have to include a COPYING file with your build 15:35:22 <Ammler> he, we aren't the only ones with memory issues :-) 15:35:34 <dragonhorseboy> hey ammler :) 15:35:44 <Luukland> Copying is at the page itselve 15:35:52 <Luukland> Isn't that sufficient? 15:36:00 <Rubidium> Ammler: well, tracd seems to know when we don't like it to use more memory and then stops using more 15:36:06 <Ammler> Luukland: is that patch compatible to the official 0.7.5? 15:36:19 <Rubidium> so I started giving it as little memory as possible, but apparantly this was too little 15:36:31 <Luukland> Yes 15:36:40 *** [alt]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd 15:36:56 <Ammler> so like a hybrid, cool idea :-) 15:37:09 <Luukland> Hmmm, maybe you misunderstood then 15:37:14 <Luukland> Or maybe I misunderstood 15:37:24 <Luukland> 0.7.5 + patch - 0.7.5C 15:37:30 <Luukland> * = 15:37:33 <dragonhorseboy> ammler you know how we were talking about the lumber mill tree clearing thing before? 15:37:40 <PeterT> Luukland: If compiling with MSYS, try using ./configure --revision=0.7.5 15:37:49 <Ammler> well, if you patch 0.7.5, it might be able to join 0.7.5 servers, why else do yo patch it? 15:37:50 <Rubidium> so it's not the server that's out of memory, just the server not giving more memory to tracd 15:37:54 <Ammler> else you should patch trunk 15:38:34 <Luukland> The patch messes with station ratings and such, which means it is a whole new version 15:38:43 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:38:45 <Luukland> if used on the old versions => big dc's 15:39:10 <planetmaker> well... then indeed: why patch a stable release and not trunk? 15:39:27 <Luukland> uuhh, it has some floats in it :P 15:39:30 <planetmaker> it's work ill spent to make game play changes to stables 15:39:45 <Luukland> and it is one big mess :P 15:39:52 <roboboy> maybe more people play stable on multiplayer? 15:40:02 <Ammler> roboboy: you can't with it. 15:40:18 <roboboy> hm 15:40:26 <planetmaker> the whole point why it's useless ;-) 15:40:38 <Luukland> PeterT? Why the hell should I use --revision=0.7.5? 15:40:41 *** slas_ [~chatzilla@25.201.216.81.static.s-o.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 15:41:02 <Ammler> if you patch stable branch it's gone unstable like trunk, just in a going abandon branch. 15:41:40 <dragonhorseboy> ammler either way one of the thing I was thinking about was what if other industries could expand out or collapse inward in similar manner and it finally struck me... 15:42:03 *** slas [~AndChat@c-4f667385-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:42:06 *** slas_ is now known as slas 15:42:13 <Ammler> dragonhorseboy: those parts are hardcoded 15:42:19 <Ammler> like the farm fields 15:42:43 <dragonhorseboy> what if oilwells started with just the main shed and one or few pumps then as the average reserve-remaining size is determined eg each janurary or so it could add or remove dummy pumps on free tiles? 15:43:07 <dragonhorseboy> heh hm well it was a random thought 15:43:08 <dragonhorseboy> :) 15:43:34 <Ammler> hmm, well, you might be able to change the layout of industries with Action2, dunno? 15:43:56 <Rubidium> and then in the 1990s the reserve-remaining size drops significantly because the oil companies have been misrepresenting the reserves 15:44:04 <dragonhorseboy> eg a 30K reserve oilwell would only have its starter three pumps but one with eventual 1.4M reserve would have a handful of pumps around (being mindful of occupied tiles) 15:45:02 <dragonhorseboy> ammler I did always wondered why the default farms didn't even have any grassy pens with cows grazing around at random 15:45:02 <Ammler> but that is something for the grf pros, I can just Action0 :-) 15:46:01 *** scrooch [~scrooch@76.73.16.26] has joined #openttd 15:46:20 <Ammler> Action2 is something like it's own nfo level... 15:46:54 <Ammler> Var* 15:49:53 <dragonhorseboy> hm well I'm only actually bothered with trying to figure out train-related stuffs for now (re upcoming sprites of mine) ... I'll just rather use FIRS till further note 15:50:53 <Mks> ohh FIRS is nice 15:51:25 <dragonhorseboy> mks..it does have its own problems tho 15:51:37 <dragonhorseboy> but hm well its a bit more useable than default industries or any other grfs so go figure 15:51:44 <scrooch> hi.. im new and i'd like to know what you think of my post about economics at http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=29683&p=845234#p845234 15:53:25 <dragonhorseboy> mks mind pm? 15:54:10 *** ZirconiumX [~Zirconium@cpc1-derb12-2-0-cust965.8-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:54:56 <scrooch> Yexo: hey :) 15:55:04 <Yexo> hello scrooch 15:55:48 <ZirconiumX> hi scrooch 15:58:53 *** ZirconiumX [~Zirconium@cpc1-derb12-2-0-cust965.8-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 16:01:05 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Bye - http.//dev.openttdcoop.org] 16:01:05 *** Ammler [~ammler@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: gone...] 16:04:11 *** DarkED2 [~J@cpe-075-176-105-070.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:10:24 <PeterT> <Luukland> PeterT? Why the hell should I use --revision=0.7.5? <-- So people on 0.7.5 can join your servers.... 16:10:31 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 16:10:33 <PeterT> Hello scrooch 16:10:40 *** Ammler [~ammler@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 16:10:49 <planetmaker> please follow the discussion, PeterT. It'd be a bad advice in this case 16:11:03 <PeterT> I'm reading it now... 16:11:46 <Luukland> PeterT, like I said, if someone from 0.7.5 joins, then they get an error 16:12:02 <Luukland> We use a totally new calculation, which means we can't use 0.7.5 16:12:15 <PeterT> so then, why not use a nightly instead? 16:12:27 <Luukland> Whahahah, nightlies, you are funny 16:12:45 <Luukland> that code is future code, it would need massive work to get that working 16:12:58 <PeterT> ok, ok 16:15:04 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:15:27 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:17:05 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 16:17:24 *** welshdragon [~markmac@147.143.254.214] has joined #openttd 16:19:11 <planetmaker> Luukland: but you needed the same work for this. So what's the point? 16:19:31 <planetmaker> and it's not like the calculation concerning stations changed 16:25:04 <Luukland> HuH? 16:25:28 <Luukland> This patch is old, I found it in a garbage can 16:25:51 <Luukland> or got it from a dark fellow in a underground parking area 16:36:37 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 16:36:53 *** tennel [~andreas@pD9528A2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:38:06 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:38:14 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 16:47:41 *** Luukland [~Luukland@s559031d6.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: OpenTTD Campaign, OpenTTD servers; luukland.goulp.net] 16:49:50 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.112.19.55.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 16:50:11 * andythenorth has been in Chipping Sodbury 16:50:37 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: heffer] 16:51:04 <andythenorth> ^^ Chipping Sodbury isn't that bad ;) 16:51:11 <andythenorth> no need to leave :P 16:51:29 *** peter_ [~peter@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 16:51:34 *** peter_ is now known as PeterT|Ubuntu 16:58:07 *** Hyr|afk is now known as Hyronymus 16:58:25 <frosch123> planetmaker: loading andythenorth' save and using the newgrfs with the matching md5sums i get fatal error "E01: Incompatible set: Consult FIRS ReadMe." 16:59:08 <planetmaker> and if you create a game with exactly those yourself, frosch123 ? 16:59:15 <frosch123> so, what is intendet? is nars2 compatible? or not? 16:59:22 <planetmaker> it is compatible 17:00:54 <frosch123> oh, ok, then it does not disable 17:01:05 <planetmaker> yeah. Same here 17:02:00 <planetmaker> and I have absolutely no clue what is going on there :S 17:02:37 <frosch123> hmm, the filenames from the newgrf gui and from gamelog mismatch :s 17:03:06 <planetmaker> :-O 17:03:33 <Terkhen> I was going to try FIRS and I get the same error 17:03:55 <planetmaker> disabling in the presence of FIRS, Terkhen ? 17:04:00 <andythenorth> Terkhen: that's useful info 17:04:06 <planetmaker> yes, indeed. 17:04:08 *** dennis [~dennis@a83-161-238-190.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: dennis] 17:04:16 <planetmaker> And getting more weired by the minute 17:04:21 <Terkhen> I don't know, let me check what happened 17:04:34 <PeterT> Luukland: Did you do something weird with your patch? I get failed hunks applying it to clean 0.7.5 source? 17:05:06 <andythenorth> Terkhen: this? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/537/Snapshot_2010-01-03_11-18-21.png 17:05:41 <Terkhen> exactly that one, just after game started 17:05:51 <Terkhen> my FISH is not disabled, though 17:06:02 <andythenorth> ignore FISH, I should have left it out of my grf list :) 17:06:37 <Terkhen> I removed all other GRFs, started a new game and the error is gone 17:09:41 <Terkhen> my fault, of course FIRS is incompatible with station's name from nearby industries 17:10:11 <andythenorth> really? 17:10:13 <andythenorth> hmmm 17:11:36 <Terkhen> I only get the incompatible set error with that NewGRF active... I suppose it is 17:11:46 <andythenorth> yes you're right, I just checked the source 17:12:13 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 17:13:15 <andythenorth> planetmaker: Terkhen's error message isn't a bug, it's correct 17:13:49 <dragonhorseboy> dumb question but any of you know if snowlines COULD be added to a tropical map? 17:13:51 <planetmaker> ah, good to know :-) 17:14:00 <planetmaker> not in OpenTTD, dragonhorseboy 17:14:06 <welshdragon> http://paste.openttd.org/220829 < any ideas? 17:14:14 <dragonhorseboy> ah drats .. thanks planetmaker 17:16:34 <frosch123> planetmaker, andythenorth: you check something with nars paramter 0, right? 17:17:56 <andythenorth> yes 17:17:59 <planetmaker> frosch123: yes. We check for bit 1 (2nd bit) being set 17:18:08 <planetmaker> if set, there's the re-gearing cargo 17:18:09 <frosch123> what does it mean? 17:18:13 *** PeterT|Ubuntu [~peter@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:18:38 <planetmaker> if so, we tell that we run a compatibility mode 17:18:57 <planetmaker> sorry, vice versa. If set, there's NO regearing cargo 17:19:06 *** scrooch [~scrooch@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC] 17:19:09 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.53] has joined #openttd 17:20:18 <orudge> a new title screen for OpenTTD, eh. I'll miss the ol' choo choo ding-ding-ding-ding-ding... 17:20:36 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has left #openttd [] 17:21:10 <Rubidium> orudge: actually, the choo choo ding-ding-ding has changed over time :) 17:21:35 <planetmaker> brb 17:21:36 <Rubidium> and you're allowed to make a intro game that does give that same effect 17:22:05 *** KritiK_ [~Maxim@78-106-35-5.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 17:23:11 <orudge> heh, I did see 17:23:53 <PeterT> orudge: You can always use the old title game 17:24:03 <PeterT> just insert a different opnttle.dat 17:24:52 <andythenorth> Terkhen: how about colours 246-254 for the map :P 17:26:08 <orudge> PeterT: well, I realise that, yes 17:26:10 <Terkhen> are they some kind of special colours? 17:26:23 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-35-5.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:26:30 *** KritiK_ is now known as KritiK 17:26:30 <PeterT> It will be a hassle though, replacing the original files everytime 17:26:45 <PeterT> I wonder if you could do it by adding an opnttle.dat to the shared directory 17:26:46 <orudge> qwll, I'm not necessarily going to actually do that in practice :/ 17:28:08 <andythenorth> Terkhe: eight identical shades of hot pink 17:29:36 <Terkhen> then we would get a big pink stain with some industries floating over it 17:30:14 <Terkhen> :P 17:30:34 <andythenorth> Terkhen: more seriously, colours 96-103 might be a better version for players who want green, I'm trying to approximate it in photoshop... 17:31:41 <Terkhen> I'll replace red with these colours, let's see how they look 17:33:00 <welshdragon> what have i done wrong here: http://paste.openttd.org/220830 17:33:32 <Rubidium> using a broken compiler 17:33:39 <welshdragon> :( 17:33:43 <welshdragon> how to fix? 17:33:55 <welshdragon> (and it's in ubuntu) 17:35:25 <Rubidium> no idea; the compiler crashing on a printf seems pretty bad 17:35:41 <welshdragon> according to Sacro it's the endian check 17:36:06 <Rubidium> it's the compiler that's crashing when compiling endian_check 17:36:44 * Eoin thinks someone should compile for welshdragon :D 17:36:57 <dragonhorseboy> heh 17:37:10 <dragonhorseboy> eoin where have you been??? your "brb" was more than a hour 17:37:10 <dragonhorseboy> :p 17:37:21 <welshdragon> it patched fine 17:37:28 <Eoin> ah 17:37:29 <Eoin> yes 17:37:30 <Rubidium> in other words, it's not a problem of OpenTTD, it's a problem of the compiler you're using 17:37:34 <Eoin> im basically back 17:37:51 <dragonhorseboy> :P 17:38:06 <andythenorth> dragonhorseboy: did you have a question for me earlier? 17:40:08 <dragonhorseboy> hmm don't recall so 17:41:09 *** slas [~chatzilla@25.201.216.81.static.s-o.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:42:44 *** tennel [~andreas@pD9528A2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:45:25 <Terkhen> andythenorth: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=46601&p=845305#p845305 17:46:18 <andythenorth> Terkhen: how is brown for you on that map? 17:47:22 <Terkhen> slightly better than with normal green, but still difficult 17:48:43 <Terkhen> I can see the iron ore mine perfectly, but now I confuse the aluminium plant 17:49:24 <Terkhen> I suspect that it is not really brown, but I don't know for sure 17:49:34 <frosch123> usage of parameter 9 should be forbidden 17:50:00 <Terkhen> I like the dark green colour for the heightmap anyways, looks nice 17:52:25 <Hyronymus> it looks good, Terkhen 17:52:29 <Hyronymus> not too bright 17:53:23 *** dragonhorseboy [~zerovnc@modemcable246.69-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [] 17:57:00 *** tennel [~andreas@pD9528A2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:57:09 <Terkhen> with dark green, I can see all FIRS industries easily after disabling the heightmap 17:57:37 <Terkhen> I think it is perfect 17:58:23 <andythenorth> dare I try compiling :| 17:58:29 <andythenorth> yes I dar 17:58:31 <andythenorth> e 17:58:53 * andythenorth fails to understand sprite bounding boxes correctly 17:59:04 <Terkhen> wait, I'll upload the new diff file 18:00:24 <Terkhen> done 18:05:18 *** Sweet|Home [~Sweet@81-86-165-20.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 18:09:58 <andythenorth> frosch123: what is the problem with param 9? 18:12:04 <andythenorth> Terkhen: compiled. Map color patch == win :) 18:12:19 <Terkhen> :) 18:13:16 <Terkhen> do you think the colour changes should affect all other modes (besides vegetation)? 18:13:22 <andythenorth> should the gui control for that be in the map? 18:14:26 <Terkhen> it would be useful, but I think all advanced settings are changed only at the advanced settings window 18:15:32 <andythenorth> I don't know if it should affect the other map modes 18:15:39 <andythenorth> probably 18:15:55 <frosch123> planetmaker, andythenorth: you use parameter 0 uninitialised. in the save parameter 0 is somehow 2 18:16:16 <Terkhen> the grey mode probably conflicts with rails, I'll have to check that 18:16:27 <andythenorth> frosch123: the NARS param 0, or the FIRS param 0? 18:16:34 <frosch123> firs param 0 18:16:40 <Terkhen> I don't think that violet or dark green conflict with any colours 18:18:05 <andythenorth> frosch123: I have no idea how that is getting set to 2 18:18:18 <andythenorth> either bad nfo code, or something weird with my OTTD 18:18:20 <andythenorth> I guess 18:18:40 <frosch123> well, i fear it is ottd's fault to not always zero the parameters 18:18:57 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:19:52 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@150.107.119-80.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd 18:20:38 <frosch123> yup, reproduced 18:21:11 <andythenorth> yup me too 18:21:13 <frosch123> start ottd, set firs parameter 0 to 2, then delete all parameters, then start the game. 18:21:23 <andythenorth> = error 18:21:36 <andythenorth> then set firs param 0 explicitly to 0 18:21:40 <andythenorth> = no error 18:21:41 <frosch123> the param has still value 2 as it was not initialised, and ottd does not always check number of valid parameters 18:21:52 <andythenorth> should the grf try and handle that 18:21:53 <andythenorth> ? 18:22:35 <frosch123> no idea what you intend with param 0, but it is at least partly ottd's fault 18:23:21 <andythenorth> FIRS param 0 should default to 0 if not explicitly set 18:23:42 <andythenorth> planetmaker ^^ maybe we should code for that? 18:29:19 <planetmaker> back 18:29:54 <andythenorth> bug: reproduced ;) 18:31:21 <andythenorth> question to the audience: 18:31:22 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=122231 18:31:36 <andythenorth> "Dredging Site", "Dredging Operation", or "Dredger" 18:31:38 <andythenorth> ? 18:31:55 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:32:13 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 18:32:30 <sam_ch> if you ask, i'd say the latter 18:32:36 <planetmaker> andy, yes, we should prepare for the parameter to be set to 0, if not explicitly set by the user... 18:32:53 <planetmaker> also: dredging site 18:33:17 <andythenorth> planetmaker: do you want to code the parameter, or do you want me to do it? 18:33:48 <planetmaker> I can take care of that, if you like. If you don't mind to not have it done tonight :-) 18:33:56 <andythenorth> fine by me 18:33:57 <planetmaker> I haven't yet finished correcting homeworks 18:34:06 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-248-176.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Something strange must have happened...] 18:34:22 <andythenorth> thinking I might release something 18:34:32 <planetmaker> sure, why not 18:34:51 <andythenorth> how much does the helicopter 'bug' matter on the dredging site (see it in the image linked above) 18:34:52 <andythenorth> ? 18:35:15 <planetmaker> it's rather a glitch :-) 18:35:29 <andythenorth> I could draw a landing platform, but the shadow will still be wrong 18:35:33 <planetmaker> Not desirable in the final one. But yet another intermediate release shouldn't be stalled by that 18:36:31 <Yexo> do you want a heliport there at all or was the plan to remove it (I know the current specs don't support that)? 18:37:40 <andythenorth> I don't want a heliport there 18:40:36 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd 18:40:37 <frosch123> we are reaching eddi's favorite topic 18:41:11 <Rubidium> "the defaults are wrong" 18:41:26 <frosch123> no, state machines for all vehicles 18:45:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r18698 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) 18:45:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by 18:45:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: estonian - 71 changes by KSiimson 18:45:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: greek - 4 changes by fumantsu 18:45:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: indonesian - 4 changes by prof 18:45:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: portuguese - 1 changes by JayCity 18:45:57 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-248-176.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 18:46:21 <andythenorth> I could draw sprites for a much larger dredging barge...with helipad 18:46:22 <andythenorth> http://www.dredgebrokers.com/Barges_Work/91132-BW/Barge.html 18:46:24 <andythenorth> meh 18:47:14 <planetmaker> I really would need to see a dredging barge where sand is transported away by transport helicopters ;-) 18:47:58 <andythenorth> This one's pretty awesome, no helipad, but a helipad is plausible... 18:47:59 <andythenorth> http://www.archirodon.net/content/equipment/images/atlantis.jpg 18:48:30 <andythenorth> this one does have a helipad 18:48:31 <andythenorth> http://www.archirodon.net/content/equipment/index.php?mainkat=Accommodation%20Barges 18:48:37 <andythenorth> enough already 18:49:03 <welshdragon> in the nightly timetable window: what does the button scheduled/expected do? 18:51:03 <Rubidium> toggle between showing the scheduled arrival/departure times and the expected (based on current lateness) arrival/departure times 18:52:00 <welshdragon> i don't see any diffenece :/ 18:52:09 <welshdragon> how do i do seperation? 18:52:30 <Rubidium> find a train that's late and you'll see a difference 18:52:41 <welshdragon> oh, i c 18:53:11 <Rubidium> or one that's early, although that only shows when using waypoints 18:53:36 <welshdragon> ah 18:53:44 <welshdragon> i can see the difference now 18:54:54 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm82.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:56:26 * welshdragon tries to find a wiki page that can help 18:58:33 *** slas [~AndChat@c-4f665717-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #openttd 19:00:47 <ccfreak2k> It's too bad the opengl patch died. 19:04:01 <Rubidium> well, it never really worked either 19:05:49 <frosch123> and the blitters are not the bottleneck anymore 19:05:54 * Rubidium wonders how many people's new year's resolutions have been to be stupider than the previous decade 19:07:03 <peter1138> heh 19:07:14 <peter1138> the opengl blitter *was* a huge bottleneck when zoomed out ;) 19:07:38 *** Madis [~stabuinte@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 19:12:47 <Rubidium> # isn't it ironic, don't you think :) 19:15:59 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-248-176.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Something strange must have happened...] 19:29:32 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 19:30:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r18699 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf.h newgrf_spritegroup.cpp): -Fix [FS#PlanetAndy]: GRF parameters were not properly initialised to zero, and not always checked for valid range. 19:31:38 *** NeosaD [~Alty@105.Red-83-50-199.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:32:17 <andythenorth> hmmm....helicopter shadow is anyway broken on default oil rig 19:33:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r18700 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix: when deleting an industry on water (oil rigs) the tiles on water were not marked dirty 19:37:38 <andythenorth> Yexo: that last commit...I've been deleting water industries and their sprites are drawn for quite some time after destruction....are they related? 19:38:01 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 19:38:16 <Yexo> yes, that should be fixedwith that commit 19:45:31 *** Madis [~stabuinte@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.6/20091201220228]] 19:45:39 *** Illegal_Alien is now known as Legal_Alien 19:46:20 *** Legal_Alien is now known as Almost_Legal_Alien 19:47:31 *** tennel [~andreas@pD9528A2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:47:40 *** Almost_Legal_Alien is now known as I_ome_in_peace_Alien 19:47:44 *** I_ome_in_peace_Alien is now known as I_come_in_peace_Alien 19:48:14 *** I_come_in_peace_Alien is now known as Alien_From_Space 19:48:23 <Chrill> Where's space? 19:48:40 *** Alien_From_Space is now known as I-want-to-kill-stupid-people-a 19:48:49 *** I-want-to-kill-stupid-people-a is now known as Illegal_Alien 19:48:57 <Illegal_Alien> wrong 19:49:14 *** zar [seppa3@hopeatilhi.cs.tut.fi] has left #openttd [*sigh*] 19:52:15 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 20:00:19 *** tennel [~andreas@pD9528A2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 20:00:54 *** fonsinchen1 [~alve@brln-4dba873b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:06:13 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:33 *** luk3Z [~chatzilla@adln122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 20:08:55 <luk3Z> varity distribution - what is that ? I try generate new map in r18698 but this option is new since 0.7.5 20:09:52 *** Madis [~stabuinte@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 20:10:26 <planetmaker> size of landscape features roughly speaking 20:12:36 *** slas [~AndChat@c-4f665717-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Quit: Bye] 20:12:58 <frosch123> luk3Z: it controls whether a hilly landscape is hilly in all places or also mountainious and flat in some 20:12:58 *** slas [~chatzilla@25.201.216.81.static.s-o.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 20:15:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r18701 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r18700): always compile before making a commit 20:15:26 *** dragonhorseboy [~zerovnc@modemcable246.69-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 20:15:37 *** hellerrr [~heller@dyn113-119.spy.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 20:15:40 <hellerrr> hi 20:16:51 <planetmaker> moin 20:17:44 <hellerrr> when a train is reversing to check for empty route 20:17:55 <hellerrr> how can i make it turn back if a route forward is free? 20:18:12 <planetmaker> press the "turn train button" 20:18:24 <hellerrr> but i dont want to turn all trains manually 20:18:37 <planetmaker> bad luck then 20:18:52 <dragonhorseboy> umm why are you intentionally causing all of your trains to flip around in first place? 20:18:58 <hellerrr> i get a message "train is lost" or there is no profit cos trains are stopped to wrong direction 20:19:01 <planetmaker> wait till they turn themselves. Works for non-pbs signals 20:19:07 <hellerrr> pbs? 20:19:11 <hellerrr> what was it.. 20:19:15 <planetmaker> path signals 20:19:24 <planetmaker> as opposed to block signals 20:19:32 <hellerrr> the one with 2 reds? 20:19:38 <planetmaker> hm, yes 20:19:47 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-f5f9e253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 20:19:49 <hellerrr> hmm 20:19:52 <planetmaker> I guess it's true for most graphical representations of them ;-) 20:20:05 <hellerrr> ill give you an url 20:20:06 <hellerrr> http://heller.huono.org/openttd/Tuomela%20Transport,%2017-12-2028.png 20:20:09 <hellerrr> thats one example 20:20:23 *** [alt]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:33 <hellerrr> that log-train is reversed 20:20:37 <hellerrr> and only waiting 20:20:47 <hellerrr> even if there is room ahead 20:20:50 <dragonhorseboy> hellerrr try normal signals? 20:20:58 <dragonhorseboy> who knows heh 20:21:12 <planetmaker> yeah, you use path signals. You have to turn them all manually 20:21:51 <planetmaker> there's somewhere a config setting which forbids turning at all. 20:22:29 <planetmaker> wait_for_pbs_path 20:22:56 <dragonhorseboy> hmmm no tank locomotive in PJ1K .. what were they actually thinking 20:23:07 <hellerrr> http://heller.huono.org/openttd/Tuomela%20Transport,%202038-07-26.png and that too 20:23:18 <planetmaker> you can change that variable to 255 to have trains never turn 20:23:24 <hellerrr> from console? 20:23:26 <planetmaker> yes 20:23:45 <hellerrr> no such varialb 20:23:45 <hellerrr> e 20:24:33 <planetmaker> then something similar. Your openttd.cfg will know :-) 20:25:00 <hellerrr> oops 20:25:12 <planetmaker> well. Mine knows 20:25:18 <hellerrr> in that new pic i made the "upper" arrows point to wrong train :D 20:25:30 <planetmaker> and our server, too 20:25:35 <hellerrr> hm= 20:26:26 <planetmaker> rcon set "wait_for_pbs_path 255" 20:26:34 <planetmaker> I never recall though how to put the " 20:26:50 <hellerrr> its not a server 20:26:51 <hellerrr> local game 20:27:03 <planetmaker> yeah. should work despite 20:27:10 <planetmaker> maybe you can do w/o rcon 20:27:24 <hellerrr> cant 20:27:38 <hellerrr> ooh 20:27:39 <hellerrr> can 20:28:44 *** mgmuscari [~mgmuscari@pool-71-187-112-171.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 20:29:43 <mgmuscari> hey... i can't find anything beyond the fix (which doesn't seem to work) in the known-bugs.txt file. does anybody else have choppy sound in 1.0.0-beta1 using pulseaudio under ubuntu karmic? 20:30:01 <Yexo> I've been thinking about allowing a newgrf industry to have only a dock or only a heliport 20:30:33 <planetmaker> that sounds desirable, Yexo :-) 20:30:42 <Yexo> would adding 2 bits to the special industry flags (var 1A) that each disable one of the features (dock/heliport) be a good idea? 20:30:44 <dragonhorseboy> yexo what kind of industry? 20:31:07 <Yexo> so if you want to have only a heliport you enable the BUILD_ON_WATER flag, then also enable the DISABLE_DOCK flag 20:31:28 <Yexo> dragonhorseboy: I'll leave that to the imagination of newgrf authors 20:31:44 <Yexo> but andythenorth has already an industry that would use this I think 20:31:52 <dragonhorseboy> yexo...some kind of alternative oilrigs you mean? 20:32:24 <Yexo> on the other hand that'd still link it to the BUILD_ON_WATER flag 20:32:32 <Yexo> maybe something that also works for land industries is better 20:32:48 <planetmaker> yes... 20:32:59 <dragonhorseboy> if its on land it better accept road and/or rail elsewise why is there really any point in having that industry there in first place unless its just for looks like the lighthouses? 20:33:57 <planetmaker> Yexo: though... I don't see that adding such flag limits it to water only 20:34:13 <Rubidium> mgmuscari: don't think there are many ubuntu karmic users in here 20:34:16 <Yexo> planetmaker: adding the flag doesn't, but with my definition above it is 20:34:24 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-248-176.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 20:35:16 <gathers> mgmuscari, I don't know about karmic but I made a different personal fix myself (before knowing about the bug) Increasing spec.samples from 512 to 1024 seemed to cure my high cpu usage (on jaunty) 20:35:42 <mgmuscari> gathers: in openttd.cfg? 20:36:16 <mgmuscari> gathers: did you compile it or install with the .deb? 20:36:17 *** luk3Z [~chatzilla@adln122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:36:30 <gathers> no, in src/sound/sdl_s.cpp 20:36:38 <mgmuscari> ah... you compiled it 20:37:12 <mgmuscari> maybe i'll just go back to 0.7.0 for now 21:08:41 *** SpBot [spbot@skrblz.fixme.fi] has joined #openttd 21:08:57 <mgmuscari> Rubidium: actually installing libsdl1.2debian-pulse made no difference for me, so i suspect SDL just can't deal with PA using timer-based scheduling 21:09:04 <mgmuscari> Rubidium: how would I go about doing that? 21:09:24 <mgmuscari> Rubidium: check it out from SVN? 21:09:26 <gathers> mgmuscari, nice :) though I would rather just launch with SDL_AUDIODRIVER=pulse for now. But I can try that and see how it behaves 21:10:02 <mgmuscari> wow, opensfx sounds a lot better 21:10:29 <Rubidium> mgmuscari: just write down a replacement for the current text in known-bugs.txt at e.g. paste.openttd.org and link that here 21:10:49 <Yexo> frosch123: currently you can transport any cargo from an oil rig if another industry is close enough 21:10:59 <Yexo> should that just be regarded as a bug then? 21:11:45 <weaselboy246> i'd say so 21:13:28 <gathers> mgmuscari, I don't have that line in there to start with.. will try adding and restarting pulse-audio 21:13:30 <frosch123> he, you can ask the same question about acceptance of cargo and other stations nearby (i.e. the typical railroad station next to the oilrig :p) 21:14:03 <Yexo> well that can be explained by the industry delivering goods both to the internal station and to external stations 21:14:11 <Yexo> just like how cargo can be split between stations 21:15:01 <weaselboy246> funny that the first time i played TTD i didn't know i could use oil rig as station. actually used to raise land and build dock lol 21:15:16 <mgmuscari> Rubidium: http://paste.openttd.org/220842 21:15:33 <Timmaexx> Sorry i couldn't watch the conversation of rubidium, gathers and mgmuscari. My OpenTTD sound is broken, can i solve this by installing libsdl1.2debian-pulse? 21:15:46 <mgmuscari> Timmaexx: what operating system are you using? 21:15:49 <Timmaexx> I have Ubuntu 9.10 21:15:59 <gathers> mgmuscari, changing default.pa had no effect for me with svn r18622, atleast not with a simple /etc/init.d/pulseaudio restart 21:16:18 <mgmuscari> gathers: keep in mind that in 9.10 PA runs in per-user mode, not as a daemon 21:16:24 <Yexo> Timmaexx: read known-bugs.txt and the pastebin mgmuscari just posted (http://paste.openttd.org/220842) 21:16:40 <mgmuscari> log out and log back in for good measure... restarting PA by hand gave me some problems so i just bounced my X server 21:16:50 <mgmuscari> Timmaexx: what Yexo said 21:17:04 <Timmaexx> Thank you very Much! 21:17:14 <mgmuscari> i'm using ubuntu 9.10 64 bit and it fixed the problem for me 21:17:15 *** Cow [~cameronwi@S0106000f6629a51c.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 21:17:19 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:17:19 <mgmuscari> with both 0.7.1 and the beta 21:17:37 <Cow> hello? 21:17:37 <gathers> mgmuscari, I have a gazillion firefox windows/tabs (forgot how to bookmark), so I'll leave the testing to others :) 21:17:45 <Yexo> hello Cow 21:17:49 <Cow> hey 21:18:03 <Rubidium> thanks mgmuscari 21:18:06 *** worldemar [~woldemar@188.122.240.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:18:08 <mgmuscari> Rubidium: NP 21:19:02 <mgmuscari> lol, that's my first OSS contribution :p 21:19:06 <gathers> Should something about SDL_AUDIODRIVER=pulse be added to the notes as well? (if that works under karmic) 21:19:22 <mgmuscari> rather anticlimactic 21:19:58 <mgmuscari> gathers: maybe that would be better in a bug report... as a workaround for the default PA config 21:20:09 <mgmuscari> since that's actually a source code change 21:20:12 *** Cow [~cameronwi@S0106000f6629a51c.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [] 21:20:24 *** Cow [~cameronwi@S0106000f6629a51c.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 21:20:24 <Timmaexx> http://paste.openttd.org/220833 isn't that kind of SPAM? 21:20:29 <gathers> it's not a source code change 21:20:51 <mgmuscari> gathers: where did you make that change? 21:21:13 <gathers> I just launch it that way from bash 21:21:25 <mgmuscari> oh you pass it as a switch 21:21:32 <PeterT> Yexo: I have a patch http://users.tt-forums.net/petert/files/minor_fixes.diff 21:22:12 <Yexo> +Open trunk/openttd_vs[8|9]0.sln <- that line is not needed 21:22:12 <gathers> mgmuscari, yes, set the environment variable for sdl 21:22:20 <Yexo> the original line is valid syntax 21:22:25 <mgmuscari> gathers: if that works it's worth mentioning as users without sudo or root privileges would be able to simply make that change to their shortcut 21:22:47 <PeterT> Yexo: ok 21:22:52 <gathers> mgmuscari, works for me, but I can't test under karmic 21:22:55 <PeterT> should I upload a new patch? 21:23:39 <mgmuscari> i'll give it a try 21:23:39 <Yexo> nah, I'll fix that 21:23:43 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 21:24:23 *** Chrill [~chrischri@80.216.60.117] has quit [] 21:24:26 <mgmuscari> brb 21:24:29 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AFAEA7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:24:37 *** mgmuscari [~mgmuscari@pool-71-187-112-171.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:42 * Cow slaps welshdragon around a bit with a large trout 21:24:48 <Cow> haha 21:24:53 * Cow slaps welshdragon around a bit with a large trout 21:24:56 * Cow slaps welshdragon around a bit with a large trout 21:25:00 <Cow> take that 21:25:04 <Cow> :P 21:25:27 <dragonhorseboy> -_- 21:25:34 *** mgmuscari [~mgmuscari@pool-71-187-112-171.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 21:26:00 <mgmuscari> meh... i removed that line from my default.pa, bounced my x session again, and now the sound is working fine anyway... 21:26:00 *** JVassie [~TheExile^@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:26:01 <Cow> i don't like that everyone can see your ip address 21:26:06 <Yexo> Cow: is this in any way relevant here? Otherwise leave it in #tycoon 21:26:16 <Cow> nope 21:26:29 <welshdragon> Cow: do i know you? 21:26:33 <Cow> yes 21:26:48 <Cow> i was on Jonty's server yesterday 21:26:49 *** Timmaexx [~quassel@port-92-201-194-214.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:58 <welshdragon> ah 21:27:00 <Cow> got banned 21:27:04 <welshdragon> well, please don't 21:27:06 <Cow> dunno why? 21:27:14 <weaselboy246> wonder why 21:27:18 *** welshdragon [~markmac@147.143.254.214] has left #openttd [] 21:27:34 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.112.19.55.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 21:27:59 <dragonhorseboy> wb andythenorth 21:28:33 *** FloSoft [bouncer@tyra.ra-doersch.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:28 *** Timmaexx [~quassel@port-92-201-194-214.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 21:29:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18703 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Feature-ish: allow virtually paying a percentage of the leg profit in feeder chains. This to give the user a better chance to get a feeder system without "losses". 21:29:47 *** FloSoft [bouncer@tyra.ra-doersch.de] has joined #openttd 21:29:52 *** FloSoft [bouncer@tyra.ra-doersch.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:05 <Rubidium> mgmuscari: http://rbijker.net/openttd/sdl-issue.diff <- I've slightly rewritten it, does that look okay? (Don't have Ubuntu, so I'm far from sure about it) 21:31:12 *** FloSoft [bouncer@tyra.ra-doersch.de] has joined #openttd 21:31:35 *** tennel [~andreas@pD9528A2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:31:53 <mgmuscari> Rubidium: yes that seems fine. a few typos 21:32:38 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aeiz61.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [] 21:33:52 *** FloSoft [bouncer@tyra.ra-doersch.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:07 <frosch123> night 21:34:07 <Rubidium> only found one (bye instead of by) 21:34:09 <Rubidium> night frosch123 21:34:12 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fda15.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:41 <mgmuscari> change Selecting to Select 21:35:00 *** FloSoft [bouncer@tyra.ra-doersch.de] has joined #openttd 21:35:03 *** weaselboy246 [risugami@67-54-241-148.cust.wildblue.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:35:14 <mgmuscari> and "Under recent version" -> "Under recent versions" 21:35:20 <mgmuscari> sorry, i'm pedantic about grammar 21:35:26 *** worldemar [~woldemar@81.28.163.63] has joined #openttd 21:35:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r18704 /trunk/docs/Readme_Windows_MSVC.txt: -Doc: update the 'Compiling OpenTTD using Microsoft Visual C++' documentation 21:36:15 *** dragonhorseboy [~zerovnc@modemcable246.69-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [] 21:36:31 *** weaselboy246 [risugami@67-54-241-148.cust.wildblue.net] has joined #openttd 21:37:27 <Rubidium> mgmuscari: doesn't matter; the grammar should be right (I'm just not that good in grammar) 21:38:01 <Rubidium> anyhow, new version. Begin of last paragraph is changed 21:39:19 *** tennel [~andreas@pD9528A2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:45:08 <mgmuscari> ok 21:45:10 <mgmuscari> sounds good 21:45:52 *** welshdragon [~markmac@147.143.254.214] has joined #openttd 21:47:33 <Cow> wb 21:48:12 <mgmuscari> i've never been clear on what affects industry "levels" ... is there an article somewhere that explains how to increase the productivity of say, a forest? 21:48:34 *** Timmaexx [~quassel@port-92-201-194-214.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:37 <Xaroth> by using it a lot 21:48:39 <KingJ> Provide a good service to it, and the output will gradually rise 21:49:13 *** Splex [~splex@pcd345041.netvigator.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:49:39 <mgmuscari> hmm, this depot always has a very low amount of wood waiting, and a train visits frequently to fill up on wood, yet the service is still poor... 21:49:47 <gathers> mgmuscari, take a look at http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_mechanics 21:50:34 <mgmuscari> perhaps because i turned on smooth economy 21:51:41 <mgmuscari> just taking a while 21:53:14 <gathers> I always try to keep one train at each station loading fully, and if I have the money get a statue, to keep the ratings up 21:56:28 *** rellig [~quassel@minad.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18705 /trunk/known-bugs.txt: -Update: the known bugs document about the PulseAudio issue based on mgmuscari's solution/workaround 21:59:15 *** Timmaexx [~quassel@port-92-201-194-214.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 21:59:23 <andythenorth> if you want to increase industry production, try using road vehicles on a feeder service 22:01:27 *** Bjelleklang [~Bjellekla@19.80-202-156.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:02:07 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s5591a1ba.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.6/20091201220228]] 22:04:15 *** tennel [~andreas@pD9528A2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:04:33 <gathers> r18703 gave me an idea.. might it be possible to save the transfer profit somewhere (in vehicle order list perhaps?) and always use the previously saved value to decide how large a fraction of the profits to award for that leg? 22:05:28 <Eddi|zuHause> gathers: how is that supposed to adjust too high estimates over time? 22:05:30 <Rubidium> gathers: technically it is possible, but that requires a load more memory/savegame space 22:06:06 <gathers> if you have the profit for the whole chain, then you can find the fraction on each transfer (if the route is the same) 22:06:40 <Eddi|zuHause> gathers: and what about very complex transfer systems? 22:06:48 <Eddi|zuHause> gathers: especially cargodistr 22:06:51 <Eddi|zuHause> -r 22:07:00 <gathers> Eddi|zuHause, well, it wouldn't matter it it's wrong once, but if running averages are kept it'd work out eventually? 22:07:39 <mgmuscari> hmm 22:07:44 <mgmuscari> shorter, more frequent trains help 22:07:54 <mgmuscari> to maintain a good rating 22:08:33 <Eddi|zuHause> mgmuscari: typically you have either "always a train waiting" or you push the rating by short distance road vehicles (especially in towns) 22:08:40 <gathers> I was thinking something like a feeder_payment_share per station order, calculated using running averages 22:08:47 <planetmaker> g'night 22:09:36 <mgmuscari> yeah i started this game too early for road vehicles... 22:09:56 <andythenorth> bye planetmaker 22:10:05 <andythenorth> mgmuscari: when did you start? 22:10:26 <gathers> Eddi|zuHause, I was hoping cargodist might "know" how many transfers are planned, but poking around the source makes me think otherwise :( 22:10:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r18706 /trunk/ (5 files in 4 dirs): 22:10:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Cleanup: remove docs/Manual.txt and docs/OSX_install_instructions.txt, the contents of those are already in readme.txt and they were outdated. 22:10:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Add docs/obm_format.txt and docs/obs_format.txt to Makefile.bundle 22:10:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Add several documentation files to the windows installer 22:11:28 <Yexo> gathers: if you play with cargodist you shouldn't use transfers at all, the cargo will be transferred automatically when needed 22:11:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure about cargodist, but cargodest only knows the next hop 22:12:06 <mgmuscari> 1914 22:14:05 <gathers> Yexo, yes, I know 22:14:38 <Yexo> gathers: sorry, I read back more now and see you're talking about something differnt, so pelase ignore my comment 22:15:02 <gathers> np :) 22:16:21 <mgmuscari> hmmm... is there any way to automatically extend a train when it goes in for maintenance? i know i can autoreplace the engine.... 22:16:58 <mgmuscari> let's say i wanted to match all trains that have engine-flatcar-flatcar-flatcar and then add 3 more flatcars 22:17:06 <mgmuscari> sort of like regular expression matching 22:17:30 *** tennel [~andreas@pD9528A2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:18:23 <Eddi|zuHause> no, that is not implemented 22:19:26 <Yexo> see also http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=46582 22:21:10 *** Hyppy [~Hyppy@143.148.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 22:22:20 <Rubidium> Yexo: the installer changes are fine; it seems to behave as it should 22:22:32 <Yexo> cool :) 22:23:27 *** PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-211-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 22:25:40 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Administr@89.246.198.97] has joined #openttd 22:28:18 *** Timmaexx [~quassel@port-92-201-194-214.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:49 <Cow> brb 22:28:51 *** Cow [~cameronwi@S0106000f6629a51c.ed.shawcable.net] has left #openttd [] 22:29:04 <Zuu> hmm, a regular train expression sonuds interesting 22:29:09 <PeterT> you don't need to annouce it for us, Cow 22:31:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Administr@89.246.221.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:32:20 *** rellig [~quassel@minad.de] has joined #openttd 22:32:24 *** Madis [~stabuinte@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.6/20091201220228]] 22:34:15 *** mgmuscari [~mgmuscari@pool-71-187-112-171.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has left #openttd [] 22:38:43 <PeterT> Yexo: what do you think of my patch? 22:38:59 * welshdragon tries compiling openttd again... 22:39:10 <Yexo> PeterT: see r18704 22:39:19 <Yexo> the file was outdated indeed, but I made some other changes 22:39:22 <PeterT> ahh 22:39:26 <PeterT> cool :-) 22:39:31 <andythenorth> good night 22:39:35 <PeterT> you didn't say "Based on idea by petert" 22:39:39 <PeterT> :-( 22:39:39 <Yexo> night andythenorth 22:39:42 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.112.19.55.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has left #openttd [] 22:39:43 <PeterT> night, andythenorth 22:40:05 <welshdragon> same error as before.... http://paste.openttd.org/220830 22:40:20 <Yexo> PeterT: I'd have done that if I used any of your patch, but basically i rewrote all of it 22:40:33 <PeterT> it's the idea... anyway 22:42:54 <Terkhen> good night andythenorth 22:43:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r18707 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Fix (r17802): local variables should not be accessed after the function returns 22:43:54 <welshdragon> PeterT: did you get any errors when compiling 18678 + cargodist? 22:44:02 <PeterT> No, welsh 22:44:04 <welshdragon> it seems weird that I do on ubuntu 22:45:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r18708 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Feature: [NewGRF] Add support for custom station foundation graphics. 22:45:42 <welshdragon> what does printf_endian do? 22:45:50 <welshdragon> somebody just asked me 22:46:31 <Yexo> if it's that guy that got a compiler error trying to compile openttd: it doesn't matter, it's a compiler bug 22:46:35 <Rubidium> welshdragon: open the file endian_check.cpp and try to find the function printf_endian. Then look at what it does 22:46:58 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has joined #openttd 22:48:05 <welshdragon> trying to find it 22:48:12 <welshdragon> it's a file apparently 22:48:40 <Yexo> endian_check.cpp is indeed a file, it can be found in any source checkout 22:49:25 <welshdragon> where? 22:49:36 <Yexo> in src/ 22:49:38 <Rubidium> lmgtfy? 22:50:29 <PeterT> Rubidium: He's asking a valid question 22:50:38 <Rubidium> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=endian_check.cpp 22:50:42 <Yexo> and has been given an answer already 22:51:20 <welshdragon> http://paste.openttd.org/220843 22:51:37 <Yexo> it's that file indeed 22:52:26 <welshdragon> xD 22:54:30 <Rubidium> PeterT: asking where to find the transfer payment calculation would be a valid question, asking where to find a file his compile complains about isn't really a valid question because actually typing "find . -iname endian_check.cpp" results in the correct answer in seconds, the whole "where can I find it" stuff takes more time 22:55:21 <Rubidium> I'm giving an unique keyword to search for, then you really should be able to find that 22:55:37 <welshdragon> the people who i'm getting to help me are confused 22:55:56 <PeterT> Rubidium: Would asking were to find the parameters code be a valid question? 22:55:57 <welshdragon> the coding that is done in C is confusing them 22:56:47 <Rubidium> if C confuses them, then how can they be of any help to your C(++) compiler problem? 22:56:55 <welshdragon> xD 22:58:05 <Yexo> PeterT: yes, the answer would be openttd.cpp 22:58:15 <Yexo> as I've told you before 22:58:27 <PeterT> I knew that, you told me before 22:58:40 <PeterT> was just asking if that type of thing is a good question 22:58:59 <PeterT> not like "wheeRz my compizer?" 22:59:00 <Yexo> yes, or I wouldn't have answered it that way 23:00:16 <Rubidium> PeterT: asking for things that can be trivially found are usually invalid questions 23:00:36 *** fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dba873b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 23:02:27 <welshdragon> so, any ideas what's wrong with endian_check.cpp? 23:03:00 <Rubidium> welshdragon: nothing 23:03:11 <Rubidium> there's something wrong with your compiler setup 23:03:17 <welshdragon> -_- 23:03:41 <welshdragon> i followed http://wiki.openttd.org/GNU/Linux#Debian_and_Ubuntu to the letter 23:04:12 <Yexo> try instaling a newer or older version of gcc 23:04:13 <Eddi|zuHause> typically, if people say that, they didn't :p 23:04:23 <PeterT> he did, trust me 23:04:26 <Rubidium> doesn't mean that Ubuntu doesn't ship a broken compiler, or that something fishy is going on that broke your installation (HDD corruption?) 23:04:30 <Zuu> Then that guide was not for your version of your distribution. Or you have something in your setup that differs from the one imagned by the author of the page. 23:04:50 <welshdragon> Zuu: it is 23:04:57 <welshdragon> it's for Ubuntu 23:05:13 <Zuu> Yep, but is it for the same version of ubuntu? 23:05:48 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:05:51 <Yexo> even if it is the version of gcc shipped with that version of ubuntu could've been changed 23:06:38 <welshdragon> it's the versionof ubuntu that's on their repositories 23:07:18 <PeterT> welshdragon: Have you tried deleting the folder and re-downloading the source? Your endian_check.cpp might have broken during transport 23:07:21 <peter1138> install and run debsums :) 23:07:26 <welshdragon> heh 23:07:59 <Zuu> or you got a broken Ram, that could cause many interesting things. :-) 23:08:05 <welshdragon> even hackier way of doing it: forcing endian_check to say it's little endian 23:08:56 <Rubidium> welshdragon: it's *very* likely that you're going to run into more problems if even that simple line causes gcc to crash 23:09:11 <welshdragon> it's worth a try... 23:09:20 <welshdragon> ;) 23:09:56 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: 540 seconds] 23:09:57 <Zuu> If you experience that other programs crash, a memtest86(+) is recommended I would say. 23:10:14 <welshdragon> Zuu: it;s got new ram 23:10:25 <Rubidium> PeterT: even on broken source code gcc should NOT crash. If gcc crashes that is 100% of the time a bug in gcc. 23:10:31 <Yexo> maybe the new ram was broken at the time you bought it 23:10:41 <welshdragon> trust me 23:10:46 <welshdragon> it's not my RAM 23:10:58 <Rubidium> where I 'assume' that broken ram is a gcc bug too (even though it isn't) 23:11:12 <Zuu> I had to send back new ram once because it failed on memtest86 before installing the OS. 23:11:12 <Rubidium> it's at least NOT a bug in the source file 23:11:26 *** slas [~chatzilla@25.201.216.81.static.s-o.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:11:42 <peter1138> DOA is a fairly common error... 23:12:02 * peter1138 ponders syncing cargodest 23:12:18 <PeterT> does #openttd have psig stats somewhere? 23:12:33 <Rubidium> I hope you don't; you'll go crazy on the GUI code 23:12:49 <Yexo> peter1138: wasn't the new order code a huge obstacle? 23:13:30 <Zuu> Does cargodest has something worthfull that cargodist do not have? 23:13:30 <Rubidium> heh, that code has been massively rewritten too 23:13:32 <peter1138> technically no. i just didn't grok what celestar had done ;p 23:14:17 <Yexo> Zuu: I think it's less bug-prone because it handles everything in one thread 23:14:39 <Yexo> cargodist uses multiple threads and sometimes needs to wait on them for computations to finish, that can easily give desyncs if done wrong 23:14:52 <Eddi|zuHause> <Rubidium> I hope you don't; you'll go crazy on the GUI code <-- i know that feeling ;) 23:15:09 <Yexo> at least that's what I understood from several forum posts, I haven't read any code of cargodist myself 23:15:21 *** JVassie [~TheExile^@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:15:49 <Yexo> I doubt cargodest changes soo much gui code that that's going to be a problem 23:16:18 <Eddi|zuHause> afair only the station window 23:16:39 <peter1138> most of it was just different content in widgets 23:16:53 <welshdragon> ok, so I got the source again 23:16:59 <welshdragon> (from SVN) 23:17:20 <welshdragon> after getting it to the correct version and trying to patch it fails 23:17:36 <Yexo> patching fails or compiling fails? 23:17:47 <Yexo> if compiling fails, can you compile the code without any patch? 23:17:53 <welshdragon> * patching file src/station_cmd.cpp 23:18:08 <welshdragon> * hunk #1 succeeded 23:18:23 <welshdragon> * hunk #2 failed at 3344 23:18:24 <Yexo> most likely you didn't update to the correct version before patching 23:18:40 <welshdragon> Yexo: i did 23:18:55 *** tennel [~andreas@pD9528A2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:19:06 <Yexo> what is the output of "svnversion" and what patch are you trying to apply? 23:19:38 <welshdragon> Yexo: 18678m 23:20:00 <welshdragon> and cargodist r18678 23:20:16 <Yexo> is that the only patch? You didn't apply another patch first? 23:20:26 <welshdragon> that's the only patch 23:20:34 <Yexo> got a link to the patch? 23:20:58 <welshdragon> http://fickzoo.com/fonsinchen/patches/against_trunk/cargodist_r18678.diff 23:21:18 *** darkmonkey [~josh@94-194-62-217.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 23:22:33 <Rubidium> that patch is definitely not for that version of trunk 23:23:03 <welshdragon> then how did PeterT compile it? 23:23:06 <welshdragon> :/ 23:23:07 <Rubidium> hmm, never mind... I applied it incorrectly 23:23:14 <Rubidium> it works fine for that revision of trunk 23:23:18 <peter1138> heh 23:23:26 <peter1138> yikes, 289KB of patch 23:23:32 <Yexo> applies correctly 23:23:44 <peter1138> welshdragon, dodgy ram 23:23:47 <Yexo> welshdragon: try "svn revert -R ." and then try to apply again 23:23:51 <Rubidium> and endian_check.cpp compiles fine 23:23:55 <peter1138> (or dodgy hdd, but ram is more likely) 23:24:05 <Rubidium> Yexo: that doesn't remove the added unversioned files 23:24:11 <Yexo> oh, right 23:24:25 <welshdragon> Yexo: it doesn't work 23:24:26 *** mikegrb [~michael@mikegrb.netop.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: tasaro] 23:24:29 <welshdragon> not enough arguments 23:24:36 *** mikegrb [~michael@mail.thegrebs.com] has joined #openttd 23:24:43 <Yexo> welshdragon: notice the dot at the end 23:24:55 <Yexo> and do "rm -r src/linkgraph/" before trying to patch again 23:25:01 <Yexo> and rm src/core/multimap.hpp 23:25:20 <Yexo> and src/saveload/linkgraph_sl.cpp 23:25:55 <Eddi|zuHause> "svn status | grep '?' | xargs rm" 23:26:16 <Rubidium> rm -rf * && svn up ;) 23:26:34 <welshdragon> Rubidium: lolno 23:26:59 <Zuu> It works as long as you don't have any importent documents in the directory. 23:27:08 <Zuu> important* 23:27:08 <Yexo> both solution are fine, unless some useful files are stored inside the checkout 23:27:53 <welshdragon> ok, i've followed Yexo's instructions 23:28:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: put those "important files" into ignore first ;) 23:29:18 <welshdragon> http://dashavoo.pastebin.com/d10132b3 might be a solution 23:29:45 <welshdragon> (thanks to dashavoo on AFNet for that) 23:29:53 <Yexo> it's a workaround, not a solution 23:29:57 <Yexo> your compiler is still broken 23:30:18 <Yexo> whether you trust a broken compiler is up to you 23:30:47 <welshdragon> well, no 23:30:49 <Rubidium> Yexo: why are you so stubborn in saying his compiler is broken? welshdragon is certain it isn't 23:31:13 <Yexo> oh, right 23:31:27 <Yexo> hardware is ok, compiler is ok, source code is ok, so there is no problem 23:31:37 <peter1138> it's working :D 23:31:56 <Rubidium> your support call will now be terminated... 23:32:17 <peter1138> after taking your paypal details 23:32:46 <welshdragon> i'll throw some ubuntu disks in the post 23:32:48 <welshdragon> ;) 23:33:07 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DF8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:33:46 <Zuu> Are ubuntu disks the new kind of post cards? ;-) 23:33:53 <welshdragon> yes 23:33:57 <Rubidium> Zuu: it's called spam 23:34:48 <PeterT> yes, they get frisbeed at you and you must catch them with your computer 23:35:02 <hellerrr> argh 23:35:04 <hellerrr> i hate this 23:35:06 <hellerrr> http://heller.huono.org/openttd/Tuomela%20Transport,%202044-12-04.png 23:35:27 <hellerrr> that train was waiting a route for less than 2 secs and then turned to another direction 23:35:41 <hellerrr> and made a clog 23:35:47 <hellerrr> how can i stop them making it? 23:35:52 *** hellerrr is now known as heller 23:36:02 <Zuu> You didn't save on the arrows :-) 23:36:30 <Yexo> heller: if you type "set wait_for_pbs_path" in the ingame console (when that savegame is laoded), what's the output? 23:36:45 <Rubidium> Yexo: it's not a path signal it turned around 'for' 23:37:02 <peter1138> ah, impromper signalling 23:37:08 <Eddi|zuHause> need to set the other wait times to 255 as well 23:37:16 <Yexo> oh, kinda hard to spot with those signals 23:38:12 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has quit [] 23:38:17 <heller> set wait_for_pbs_path is now 255 23:38:40 <Eddi|zuHause> heller: and wait_oneway_signal and wait_twoway_signal or something like that 23:38:45 <Zuu> heller: That would be enough if you were only using path based signals. 23:39:01 <heller> hmm 23:39:04 <heller> i am? 23:39:13 <peter1138> you're not 23:39:15 <Zuu> You are also using block signals. 23:39:25 <welshdragon> ok, Yexo's way didn't work 23:39:25 <heller> what is path based? 23:39:31 <Zuu> They use some other settings as pointed out by Eddie. 23:39:33 <welshdragon> nor did modifyng the file 23:39:39 <welshdragon> *sigh* 23:39:45 <Yexo> welshdragon: what's the nwe output? 23:40:20 <Zuu> heller: For documentation on the different signal types: http://wiki.openttd.org/Signals 23:40:23 <PeterT> what was wrong with my answer? 68.149.161.63 23:40:23 <heller> do i have to reload game etc or is the effect instant? 23:40:27 *** weaselboy246 [risugami@67-54-241-148.cust.wildblue.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:40:28 <PeterT> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=845381#p845381 23:40:34 <Yexo> and what part of "my way" didn't work? I only explained how to clean your working directory and patch again 23:40:35 *** weaselboy246 [risugami@67-54-241-148.cust.wildblue.net] has joined #openttd 23:41:05 <welshdragon> http://dashavoo.pastebin.com/ddcfb971 23:41:27 <Yexo> heller: the effect is instand, but you'll still ahve to manually reverse any trains that have already turned 23:41:36 <peter1138> welshdragon, yes, definitely working fine 23:41:37 <PeterT> does #openttd have pisg stats anywhere? 23:41:41 <Yexo> and you have to execute that ocmmand in the main menu to change it for new games 23:41:54 <Rubidium> PeterT: that your answer doesn't work for trains turning around at block signals; actually if trains now turn around at block signals and end up in a path signaled block they are completely locked, they won't move at all without manual intervention 23:42:04 <peter1138> welshdragon, absolutely no memory problem there at all, honest 23:42:16 <welshdragon> peter1138: don't lie 23:42:21 <welshdragon> itis my ram isn't it? 23:42:31 <peter1138> 23:10 < welshdragon> trust me 23:42:31 <peter1138> 23:10 < welshdragon> it's not my RAM 23:42:35 <peter1138> so it can't be 23:42:47 <welshdragon> :( 23:42:48 <Yexo> welshdragon: if you don't believe us, do you at least believe gcc itself? "...: internal compiler error: Segmentation fault" "#Please submit a full bug report," 23:42:54 <PeterT> why do trains turn around at block signals 23:42:59 <PeterT> is there a setting for that? 23:43:04 <welshdragon> hmm 23:43:07 <welshdragon> *sigh* 23:43:09 <Yexo> since the error is in a differnt file this time I highly doubt it's gcc 23:43:12 <Zuu> PeterT: Yes 23:43:19 <PeterT> ok 23:43:22 <welshdragon> i can't afford to buy new RAM 23:43:26 <PeterT> are there pisg stats for #openttd? 23:43:30 <PeterT> nothing on Google 23:43:31 <Yexo> PeterT: yes, wait_oneway_signal and wait_twoway_signal 23:43:32 <Zuu> "Eddi|zuHause heller: and wait_oneway_signal and wait_twoway_signal or something like that" 23:43:36 <peter1138> i thought you said you had new ram? 23:43:37 <glx> RAM or HDD, but some hardware has problem 23:43:44 <PeterT> Yexo: I see. 23:43:44 <Yexo> keeping to ask the same question isn't going to help you 23:43:50 <welshdragon> peter1138: the RAM is fairly new 23:43:52 <Yexo> if anybody has an answer you'll get it 23:43:52 <PeterT> was wondering what those were 23:44:03 <PeterT> Yexo: yeah, I know *embarresed* 23:44:10 <Rhamphoryncus> heller: the key to understanding path based signals is that instead of defining "blocks" which can only handle one train at a time, they instead define "stopping points" with reservation happening on a per-tile basis 23:44:20 <Zuu> welshdragon: Did you run a memory test program on your ram after you installed it? 23:44:41 <peter1138> it could just be a dodgy cpu 23:44:53 <peter1138> or motherboard 23:45:05 <glx> definetely hardware ;) 23:45:33 <Zuu> If memtest or prime shows an error you should be lucky to know for sure where the error is. 23:45:36 <welshdragon> what's to say that it isn't the source that is fbar'd 23:45:41 <welshdragon> *fubar'd 23:45:45 <Yexo> PeterT: those are very old (jan 2007): http://electricpotential.net/ircstats/openttd.html 23:45:56 <Zuu> Finding motherboard errors are quite hard. You only know after having replaced the mother bord for sure :-) 23:45:58 <PeterT> will they be updated? 23:45:58 <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: have you done a memtest? 23:46:06 <PeterT> doesn't DorpsGek have logs? 23:46:16 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: i think they died with _42_ 23:46:16 * welshdragon can do one now 23:46:23 <Yexo> no public logs at least, dunno if it keeps logs 23:46:36 <Rhamphoryncus> heller: for the exit path off an intersection you want the next stopping point pushed far enough back that the train won't block the intersection 23:46:39 <PeterT> " * Darkvater slaps Bjarni " 23:46:40 <guru3> Yexo: http://electricpotential.net/ircstats/openttd2.html new ones 23:46:50 <PeterT> thanks guru3 23:46:59 <Yexo> thegrebs.com has #openttd logs 23:47:00 <peter1138> @seen bjarni 23:47:00 <DorpsGek> peter1138: bjarni was last seen in #openttd 16 weeks, 5 days, 3 hours, 46 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <Bjarni> Belugas: there is no reason to write to PeterT. We already know he is unable to read anyway :P 23:47:04 <glx> guru3's site IIRC ;) 23:47:05 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: that's a "very typical" quote ;) 23:47:06 <Rubidium> oh... good old igor2code 23:47:30 <PeterT> peter1138 has the most lines 23:47:35 <PeterT> congrats peter1138 23:47:40 <Yexo> thanks guru3 23:47:46 <guru3> i had some down time on the stats when my server crashed 23:47:49 <peter1138> gosh 23:47:52 <guru3> but it should all be up to date now 23:47:53 <PeterT> * dih slaps Belugas 23:47:55 <peter1138> how did that happen 23:47:55 <PeterT> lol 23:47:59 <peter1138> considering i was gone for years 23:48:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i find it funny how guru3 idles here for years, and pops up at the right moment to advertise his site :p 23:48:09 <PeterT> lol -> "Apokalipz wrote an average of 75.00 words per line. " 23:48:14 <Rubidium> oh noes... now PeterT has a reason to spam this channel even more :( 23:48:19 <glx> HL I guess Eddi|zuHause 23:48:27 <PeterT> maybe Apokalipz wrote 75 words once and left 23:48:36 <guru3> Eddi|zuHause: there's a thing in irssi for highlights 23:48:41 <guru3> i set it to my url... 23:48:43 <glx> Rubidium: too bad now we have a reason to ban him :) 23:48:50 <welshdragon> what am I looking for in this MemTest? 23:48:52 <guru3> and now it's been so long that i've forgotten the command for setting it 23:48:58 <fonsinchen> I'll comment on those statements made about cargodist before (by Yexo and peter1138): 23:49:06 <welshdragon> there's 0 errors 23:49:16 <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: anything that says "error" after running for a whole night 23:49:27 <fonsinchen> I know the issue with desyncs and I have designed the threading with that in mind. 23:49:46 <welshdragon> i have to leave it a whole night O_O 23:50:04 <peter1138> welshdragon, are you running memtest86? 23:50:07 <welshdragon> yes 23:50:08 <fonsinchen> All desync bugs in cargodist so far were not caused by design problems and I haven't seen a desync report for a long time now. 23:50:10 <peter1138> the one that runs instead of linux? 23:50:17 <welshdragon> yes 23:50:18 <guru3> really did wish i remember what that command was now 23:50:20 <peter1138> great 23:50:24 <peter1138> it should be still running 23:50:27 <welshdragon> it is 23:50:28 <peter1138> it'll take a while 23:50:38 <PeterT> perhaps a command @logs is in order? 23:50:39 <welshdragon> it's on test #4 23:50:55 <Rubidium> please wait till it's fully finished with all its loops before saying it isn't the hardware 23:51:01 <glx> first tests are fast :) 23:51:10 <welshdragon> yeah 23:51:20 <Eddi|zuHause> one of the later tests showed a sticky bit for me 23:51:22 <welshdragon> this one's taking longer 23:51:33 <PeterT> wow, yorick really has been on this channel for a while 23:51:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not entirely sure, might be test 7 or 8 23:51:43 <fonsinchen> And the patch is large, but I keep it divided into several smaller chunks. 23:51:46 <PeterT> and has been kicked 55 times? 23:51:53 <peter1138> it'll run multiple passes 23:51:53 <glx> only? 23:51:55 <guru3> ah, it's /hilight! 23:52:04 <peter1138> sometimes things don't get picked up on the first few 23:52:08 <guru3> and now i can fade back into oblivion to once again jump at at unsuspecting chatters 23:52:17 <peter1138> so you need to run it at least a day 23:52:18 <Eddi|zuHause> is that the guy we banned for a month without noticing? 23:52:59 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i say too many lines... 23:53:12 <Eddi|zuHause> especially between 0 and 6 23:53:15 <welshdragon> did any of you devs notice the error was in a different file? 23:53:17 *** mgmuscari [~mgmuscari@pool-71-187-112-171.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 23:53:29 <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause: Yorick? 23:53:32 *** dashavoo [~moabraham@dashavoo.com] has joined #openttd 23:53:33 <PeterT> lol you banned him 23:53:44 <Yexo> yes welshdragon, and that only confirms that's it's likely a hardware problem 23:53:50 <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: it's irrelevant, it's not the fault of the file 23:53:52 <mgmuscari> is it possible to change the size of the fonts used for the map legends? changing the font faces and sizes in openttd.cfg doesn't seem to do anything for me 23:53:59 * welshdragon hifives dashavoo 23:54:17 <Yexo> mgmuscari: change both small_size and small_font 23:54:26 <Yexo> smalL_font should have the name of a font you want to use 23:54:30 <Eddi|zuHause> mgmuscari: must also enforce using a font other than the builtin one 23:54:36 <Yexo> small_size only works if you use a custom font 23:54:42 <mgmuscari> Yexo: is there a case under which it will go back to the default? 23:54:53 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:54:58 <Yexo> just remove the line from openttd.cfg and it'll get the defautl value again 23:55:05 <mgmuscari> i mean 23:55:09 <glx> it defaults to TTD sprites 23:55:13 <Rubidium> if the font can't be found I reckon (or the name is empty) 23:55:27 <glx> unless TTD sprites miss chars 23:55:55 <mgmuscari> Rubidium: alright, that's what i figured.... how does it expect gnu/linux fonts to be specified? 23:55:59 <mgmuscari> by name or by filename? 23:56:08 <Rubidium> something that fontconfig can resolve 23:56:21 <Rubidium> and IIRC full paths to fonts work too 23:56:42 <Rubidium> full as in absolute 23:57:58 *** Chrill [~chrischri@80.216.60.117] has joined #openttd 23:59:09 <mgmuscari> ah, thanks 23:59:14 <mgmuscari> anything that shows in fc-list 23:59:21 <glx> yup