Log for #openttd on 8th January 2010:
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02:37:10  <sparr> about to try applying a patch from r13664
02:37:14  <sparr> this should be interesting
02:37:58  <PeterT> what patch, sparr?
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02:38:16  <sparr> "Better Graphs"
02:38:25  <sparr> the one to generate income by speed/distance graphs
02:38:33  <sparr> I could do it in a spreadsheet, but I'm lazy :)
02:39:50  <sparr> hmm
02:40:11  <sparr> 11 out of 18 hunks failed
02:40:16  <sparr> maybe the spreadsheet would be easier...
02:40:38  <Rubidium> oh, so... 7 hunks didn't fail. That seems pretty good for something related to the GUI
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02:48:13  <roboboy> how do I disable servicing using the console?
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03:04:47  <roboboy> how do I disable servicing using the console?
03:06:46  <fjb> You don't have to ask more than one time.
03:09:30  <PeterT> how does roboboy disable servicing using the console?
03:10:51  <glx> and think it's 4AM here :)
03:11:04  <PeterT> 10PM here
03:11:13  <PeterT> hello, tomorrowers!
03:12:58  <PeterT> isn't it illegal posting sprites like this on the wiki?
03:13:44  <sparr> I've travelled here from the year 1982 to relay this message...
03:13:49  <sparr> I'm AFK.
03:14:28  <PeterT> Night
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03:17:32  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: glx * r18756 /trunk/src/ (heightmap.cpp screenshot.cpp spriteloader/png.cpp): -Codechange: direct accesses to png_*_struct members are deprecated
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03:35:12  <sparr> do statues go in the town that the industry belongs to or the town that the station belongs to?
03:35:19  <sparr> if the latter, how can you tell if it has been renamed?
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03:40:56  <glx> statues goes in the town you bough them
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03:56:01  <sparr> glx: yes, what I mean is which town should I buy it in, to get the rating bonus
03:56:25  <glx> where the station is
03:56:36  <glx> ratings are per station
03:59:04  <sparr> ok, then the second part of the question
03:59:14  <sparr> how can you tell which town a station is attached to after it is renamed?
03:59:27  <sparr> assuming it does not fall within local authority, or falls within multiple
03:59:33  <glx> ? menu should be able to tell you
03:59:49  <sparr> I shall investigate, thanks
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04:26:09  <Pikka> pedro ein ein drei acht...
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04:57:45  <TheTrav> ahoy hoy
04:58:11  <TheTrav> a friend of mine is trying to set up a server for a bunch of us.  We want to set it up so the game only runs when players are connected (pause when no-one is around)
04:58:22  <TheTrav> <- does not appear to list it
04:58:32  <TheTrav> anyone heard of / know how to set up that feature?
04:58:42  <TheTrav> I think I heard the coopetition guys did it
05:01:27  <Forked> min_active_clients ?
05:12:18  <roboboy> how do I change a config value using the console?
05:13:57  <TheTrav> roboboy: I think I was looking at a page that had that like, 20 mintues ago
05:13:58  <roboboy> found it
05:14:07  <TheTrav> ahh good
05:14:20  <TheTrav> do you know what min_active_clients does?
05:14:42  <Forked> Set it to two and see if the game runs with only one player :)
05:15:36  <roboboy> I would think 2 requires two people excluding the server if it is dedicated
05:16:19  <roboboy> hm is 0 Off and 1 On?
05:16:48  <roboboy> blah is 0 False and 1 True?
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05:17:26  <roboboy> the console tells me that the current setting is False and that the min value is 0 and max is 1
05:17:59  <roboboy> and if I try and set it to True it tells me True is not an integer
05:20:40  <roboboy> all fixed
05:21:53  <TheTrav> fun times
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05:35:55  <Dade> Hello all
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05:55:15  * roboboy wonders if it would be worth adding the ability to run OpenTTD as a windows service
05:56:57  <roboboy> grr old MS Setups can be a pain on modern computers
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06:26:53  <roboboy> hm runing openTTD with -D still requires a sound set
06:27:55  <Forked> there is a nosound set though?
06:28:40  <roboboy> I didnt download it on install as I thought dedicated wouldnt need it
06:29:40  <roboboy> lets see if NT Wrapper can run openTTD as a service
06:30:05  <roboboy> or once all the bits of OpenTTD are installed
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06:35:48  <roboboy> it works
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06:59:12  <Terkhen> good morning
07:07:31  <Pikka> guten morgen mein herr
07:10:59  <Rubidium> 0h... he's having his German phase again?
07:12:34  <Pikka> is he?
07:17:26  <peter1138> it is the pikka monster
07:18:06  <Pikka> jawohl
07:18:12  <Pikka> peetar
07:18:20  <Pikka> I wanted to play on your server
07:18:28  <Pikka> but big map + late game = unhappy eee
07:18:30  <peter1138> Rubidium is using vb :(
07:18:47  <Pikka> victoria bitter!  horrible stuff.
07:19:38  <Pikka>
07:19:41  * Pikka shrugs
07:20:04  <peter1138> project 1k is... ftw
07:20:10  <peter1138> except for being unfinished ;(
07:20:51  <Pikka> sorry
07:21:05  <Pikka> I'm in el japons away from my computer until the end of next month
07:21:34  <peter1138> apparently so
07:24:15  <Pikka> but when I return!
07:24:36  <Pikka> I shall start to finish beginning completion of pj1k!
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07:27:03  <Rubidium> peter1138: which of the at least 3 VBs? VirtualBox, Visual Basic or Vista Basic?
07:28:31  <roboboy> Does anyone think it might be use enableing openTTD to be run as a windows service?
07:29:16  <Rubidium> no. There're already more than enough idle for the whole time servers
07:30:35  <Rubidium> e.g.
07:30:50  <Rubidium> has been running for years without anyone playing on it
07:31:08  <Rubidium> with a Windows service you're likely to only make that worse
07:31:19  <roboboy> hm yeah
07:31:53  <roboboy> ill keep using my program that allows normal programs to be run as services
07:32:19  <roboboy> its only a local game for myself and friends
07:35:30  <Singaporekid> pikka is op
07:37:09  <Pikka> oh look
07:37:14  <Pikka> it's tavish mcgroot
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07:39:23  <peter1138> Rubidium, one in which "0h" is valid
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07:42:37  <roboboy> is reffiting in terms of grfs and capacities handled entirely by the grf
07:43:29  <roboboy> hm my aircraft are full loading even though I didnt tell them to
07:43:54  <roboboy> or they were
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07:47:47  * roboboy feels there are still a few reference to road vehicles that could do with changing to Tram
07:48:21  <roboboy> eg the red error box that comes up when trying to turn a tram around
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08:01:31  * peter1138 ponders variable radius farms
08:02:34  <Pikka> oh?
08:02:55  <Pikka> give us fully customisable fields, whydoncha?
08:07:57  <peter1138> well
08:08:01  <peter1138> who knows eh
08:08:43  <Singaporekid> daemomum
08:10:56  <Pikka> skiddles
08:11:03  <Pikka> have you got the eyelander yet
08:11:42  <Singaporekid> Yes
08:11:55  <Singaporekid> No targe though, and demoman is even more op than before now
08:12:16  <Singaporekid> The equalizer is pretty useful though, but I wish soldiers would stop holding it out while calling for medics
08:12:42  * Terkhen is happy burning W+M1 demomans
08:12:59  <Pikka> I only have the equaliser
08:13:09  <Pikka> not had too many problems with demomons
08:13:13  <Singaporekid> direct hit is the new anti-sentry weapon, too
08:13:24  <Pikka> I'm sure
08:14:55  <Pikka> I played for the first time yesterday, missed out on all the new weapon spam
08:15:48  <Pikka> nice scout nerfs too
08:16:03  <Pikka> nerfs/adjustments
08:16:12  <Singaporekid> There are probably charging demomans everywhere now
08:16:16  <Singaporekid> lol sandman
08:16:34  <Pikka> I haven't seen that many charging demomans
08:16:44  <Pikka> and the reduction in stickies is welcome
08:16:47  <Singaporekid> Did you see the new bots? They're pretty smart
08:16:56  <Pikka> nop
08:17:12  <Terkhen> can you get achievements against bots?
08:17:18  <Singaporekid> The engineers build sentry nests on kothes
08:18:11  <Pikka> oh yeah and I got another non-hat hat.
08:18:16  <Pikka> camera beard D:
08:19:28  <Singaporekid> Apparently the camera beard drops very often now since it's in the misc slot
08:20:59  <Pikka> o
08:21:09  <Pikka> so you can wear it with a hat?
08:21:11  <Pikka> intriguing
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08:21:36  <Pikka> what happens if you craft four camera beards?
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08:33:54  <Singaporekid>
08:37:21  <Pikka> oic
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08:49:40  <peter1138> pikka pikka
08:49:51  <peter1138> my towns shrink with tai :(
08:50:38  <Pikka> only if they replace a high-population building with a smaller one?
08:50:51  <Pikka> and they don't /all/ shrink... :o
08:51:11  <Pikka> tai is supposed to keep them small and (relatively) unpredictable... :o
08:51:38  <peter1138> not all
08:52:04  <peter1138> some towns get big, then shink
08:52:06  <peter1138> *SRHINK
08:52:09  <peter1138> *SHRINK :s
08:52:19  <peter1138> shame they don't clean up their roads... hehe
08:53:09  <Pikka> :P
08:53:12  <Pikka> well
08:53:14  <Pikka> in that case
08:54:26  <Pikka> it's probably that they build high-population buildings in the centre
08:54:41  <Pikka> so they don't "shrink", they just get more concentrated :P
08:54:52  <peter1138> nope
08:54:55  <peter1138> small houses
08:55:23  <peter1138> actually, looks like original buildings, hmm
08:55:23  <Pikka> how rare
08:55:30  <peter1138> no scrabble board, anyway
08:55:51  <peter1138> oh no, they are tai buildings
08:55:55  <Pikka> the highrises and parks have no scrabble board afair
08:56:02  <peter1138> and they are high population
08:56:18  <peter1138> just not many of them, so the population has decreased massively
08:57:12  <Pikka> hmm
08:57:24  <Pikka> if the populaton is decreasing a lot, sounds buggy
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09:06:11  <George> Yexo_: no problem. BTW, did you discovered the problem with a howse not being drawn in FS#3495, test5w.grf (the smallest one)?
09:12:01  <George> Yexo: I creted a new task for thet FS#3497
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09:23:15  <Pikka> okay, time to go to dinner, latarz all
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10:11:41  <George> Could devs say about the FS#3477? peter1138 provided the diff, so, that stops it from being included in trunk?
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10:44:19  <Oli``> I've put in ~/.openttd but I'm getting "Error: cannot open file ''". What am I doing wrong?
10:45:42  <welshdragon> it needs to be in the /data directory
10:46:07  <welshdragon> (before anybody else says 'red the readme')
10:47:22  <Oli``> aaaaaah!
10:47:25  <Oli``> thank you welshdragon
10:48:03  <welshdragon> no problems Oli``
10:53:22  <murr4y> the text files are pretty awesome
10:53:29  <Oli``> What about music? I've shoved the awe, fm and gm folders in data too and I'm not hearing anything remotely jazzy
10:53:35  <murr4y> i had the cpu problem with sdl and pulseaudio
10:53:48  <murr4y> and just skimmed the known-bugs.txt without any expectations
10:53:56  <murr4y> and what-do-you-know, there was the answer
10:54:06  * Oli`` searches for the docs
10:54:18  * Oli`` needs a doc to find the docs on ubuntu >_<
10:54:29  <murr4y> Oli``: gm folder does *not* go in /data :)
10:54:36  <peter1138> to be awkward, the gm directory doesn't go in data
10:54:43  <Oli``> How handy!
10:54:49  <murr4y> very intuitive
10:54:51  * roboboy thinks someone should write a  patch that makes the submarines under disasters do something other than wander the map
10:54:56  <Oli``> what about fm and awe?
10:55:38  <Oli``> oh yeah now we're rocking!
10:56:04  <roboboy> is there a patch around to disable select disasters?
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11:00:15  <SpComb> are the submarines disasters?
11:00:56  <peter1138> only gm is used
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11:04:13  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... so apparently it crashes on windows as well :(
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11:08:09  <__ln> a portable crash
11:09:18  <Eddi|zuHause> shows how good wine has got, it even ports the crashes
11:15:36  <roboboy> the wiki classes them as disasters and they dont seem to happen when disasters are turned off
11:17:33  <Tennel> whats the problem with the submarines?
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11:18:20  <roboboy> they do nothing
11:19:03  <Tennel> it's some kind of easteregg
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11:49:14  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... that is weird...
11:49:43  <Eddi|zuHause> apparently the file "data\buildings\PB_C_Warehouse01ConstructionSite.GR2" is damaged
11:50:14  <Eddi|zuHause> which now explains why the missions 1 through 4 worked, there were no chinese people in there
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12:22:52  <__ln>
12:24:38  <Eddi|zuHause>
12:28:35  <Oli``> How do I convince a town to let me build an airport?
12:28:50  <ashb> bribe them or build lots of trees
12:29:15  <Eddi|zuHause> Oli``: if you have noise limits enabled, make the town grow or try to build further away from the centre
12:29:34  <Eddi|zuHause> or try a smaller airport
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12:35:59  <Oli``> Hmm they think I'm appalling... Might have been because of the "delicate" landscaping I did to make room for the airport >_<
12:40:43  <Eddi|zuHause> then what ashb said
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13:00:45  <Wizzleby> Trees is probably the easier option considering how expensive a bribe is
13:01:05  <Wizzleby> and has thus far always worked for me when my lanscaping ticked off a town
13:01:17  <Ammler> <-- should openttd support displaying parameters?
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13:05:17  <SpComb> nuke all the trees in the LA area and replant them
13:05:22  <Ammler> he, Action9 has broken skip rest, it does disable the whole grf
13:05:27  <SpComb> usually nets you a mediocre-good :)
13:07:01  <Rubidium> Ammler: action9 before action8?
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13:16:07  <Ammler> Rubidium: no
13:16:28  <roboboy> whats the setting in the console for Always allow small airports?
13:16:36  <Ammler> Rubidium: #3500
13:17:22  <roboboy> or how do I turn it on using the console?
13:18:39  <Ammler> hmm, I really should learn to check the ticket properities BEFORE hitting submit :-/
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13:22:07  <Coco-Banana-Man> @roboboy: "always_small_airport = true"
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13:24:03  <Coco-Banana-Man> hmm...
13:24:23  <Coco-Banana-Man> what's the difference between always_small_airport and never_expire_airports?
13:26:01  <Ammler> one might be former of the other
13:26:23  <KenjiE20> never expire will keep them all, small just small?
13:26:35  <roboboy> !rcon setting always_small_airport true using ap+ gives me 'always_small_airport' is an unknown setting.
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13:26:49  <Ammler> yes, because that is the old
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13:27:08  <roboboy> Using !rcon setting always_small_airport true using ap+ gives me 'always_small_airport' is an unknown setting.
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13:27:27  <Coco-Banana-Man> then try never_expire_airports...
13:28:38  <roboboy> I think I did
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13:29:52  <roboboy> same response but replacing the new patch string in place of the previous suggestion
13:31:46  <Rubidium> you're not allowed to change it in network games anyway
13:33:56  <roboboy> not even using rcon?
13:34:16  <Eoin> not at all
13:34:36  <roboboy> hm then ill have to wait for the comuter airport
13:34:42  <Rubidium> no, it's setting is exported to NewGRFs as such it may not be changed (desyncs and the like)
13:35:00  <roboboy> ok
13:35:11  <roboboy> thats fine
13:35:54  <Ammler> roboboy: it takes around 30 secs to save it locally, change -> upload to server and load again
13:36:57  <roboboy> its not my server but I have rcon acces
13:38:14  * roboboy is sleepy
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13:48:23  * roboboy wishes watch companies gui was fro trunk
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13:49:17  <glx> roboboy: blame Muxy for not deving against trunk ;)
13:49:39  <roboboy> ok
13:53:08  <peter1138> heh
13:53:27  <Rubidium> but... then you can't play on his servers anymore!
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13:55:31  <roboboy> Muxy can you convert Watch Companies Gui to trunk or provide a trunk version please
13:55:31  <roboboy> I was hoping to merge it with IS2.1.1
13:55:49  <Goulp> aha
13:56:26  <Goulp> roboboy: how much you like it ?
13:56:35  <roboboy> I wasnt going to join watch server GUI servers
13:56:39  * Goulp has Muxy inside
13:57:00  <roboboy> I connect 0.7.5 into letting me join servers with watch server gui patch applied
13:57:10  <roboboy> I conned 0.7.5 into letting me join servers with watch server gui patch applied
13:57:16  <roboboy> I like it alot
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14:00:41  <Goulp> roboboy: watch server gui - in non dedicated mode, why not, but watch company gui is to be used on client side regardless of the server
14:01:24  <Goulp> *watch company gui patch of course not server - pfff
14:03:52  <roboboy> I realised that
14:03:52  <roboboy> I want to merge it with trunk and IS2.1.1's patch for trunk
14:06:00  <Goulp> ok, then i will work on it
14:07:03  <roboboy> thanx
14:07:32  <Belugas> Hello
14:07:39  <roboboy> some of the other people playing on the IS2.1.1 server sayed they think it would work well with IS2.1.1 as well
14:07:43  <roboboy> hello
14:09:30  <Goulp> sure it will
14:09:52  <Goulp> until you have only one client per company.
14:10:19  <Goulp> if you have many, it works also... but it's another story
14:10:28  * roboboy remembers that screensaver patch that made openttd into a windows screensaver
14:12:47  <roboboy> hehe
14:12:47  <roboboy> IS2.1.1 would be nice with it as sometimes you are working in partnership with another company and you may wish to watch your partners company
14:13:06  <roboboy> how can I generate a distributable package using MSVC?
14:14:31  <Rubidium> see Makefile.msvc
14:15:25  <roboboy> ok
14:17:33  <roboboy> can I get a win32 copy of make?
14:17:41  <roboboy> does MSVC come with it?
14:17:57  <Goulp> should be included into visual studio
14:18:37  <roboboy> ok
14:21:25  <roboboy> hm ill sort that out later
14:24:36  <roboboy> lets see if this compile works
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14:33:28  * roboboy mmight go to bed in an hour or so
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14:38:09  * roboboy shall probably go to sleep in an hour or so instead of waiting to hear anything about a release for the patch
14:41:42  <glx> converting the patch to trunk will take some time (window system is very different)
14:44:48  <Goulp> glx: may be rewrite with new window system will be faster
14:45:25  <roboboy> ok
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14:45:44  <Chris_Booth> any one here know how to write a new AI?
14:45:49  <Chris_Booth> as i want to make my own
14:45:51  <Chris_Booth> and hi to all
14:46:18  <Goulp> roboboy: and i still work hour here
14:47:23  <roboboy> ok
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14:48:42  <Terkhen> Chris_Booth:
14:48:57  <Chris_Booth> thanks i found that page now
14:49:15  <Chris_Booth> i should have looked in the wiki first thanks Terkhen
14:49:16  * roboboy waits for OpenTTD to compile
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15:21:28  <Coco-Banana-Man> hmm.. NoCAB is strange...
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15:23:37  <Coco-Banana-Man> It has built 5 bus/truck stops in a town with ~800 inhabitants and 5 depots...
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15:34:36  <peter1138> hmm, i need to go out to my shed
15:34:42  <peter1138> but i'll ruin the pristine snow ;(
15:36:40  <Timmaexx> I ste NoCab only to use Ships, and it was fine then i opened 12 other nocab companies and OpenTTD lagged ultimate
15:36:46  <Timmaexx> set
15:37:08  <Timmaexx> I know thats silly ;)
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15:40:38  <Coco-Banana-Man> There really needs to be some way to remove outdated links in CargoDist :(
15:45:35  <Rubidium> peter1138: what about those techniques the army/navy uses to enter/restock ships, i.e. shooting a wire across
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16:09:21  <Bluelight> Does anyone got a good server config file?
16:11:02  <Ammler> Bluelight: what's about default?
16:11:36  <Bluelight> I don't understand.. :p
16:11:45  <Bluelight> Default?
16:12:13  <Goulp> Bluelight: what's a good config ?
16:12:37  <Bluelight> It's the file "openttd.cfg", right?
16:12:53  <Goulp> yes, but what's Good ?
16:13:11  <Ammler> it depense what kind of gameplay you expect
16:13:14  <Bluelight> Well with a welcome message and some commands to bankrupt idle companies and stuff..
16:13:35  <Goulp> welcome message is done by using scripts
16:14:05  <Bluelight> Luukland servers use good config I think.. Like restarting every 6 hours and stuff..
16:14:22  <Bluelight> Scripts? Ok
16:14:23  <Goulp> restarting every 6 hours is made by patch
16:14:33  <Ammler> visit your own server and talk with the players
16:14:36  <Bluelight> Can someone explain scripts to me then?
16:14:45  <Ammler> then you might see, what's good, what's bad
16:14:57  <Goulp> and all time program is externaly stored
16:15:17  <Goulp> script uses console comands
16:15:38  <Ammler> Bluelight: check subdir scripts
16:15:39  <Goulp> *server console commands
16:15:42  <Bluelight> So it's not good for a n00b to do?
16:15:57  <Goulp> its good for a n00b to learn
16:16:14  <Ammler> Bluelight: much more important than the config is mods/admins to be around.
16:16:30  <Goulp> and wiki reading is a good learning
16:17:02  <Goulp> and curiosity is alos requiered
16:17:06  <Bluelight> Hmm.. Ok
16:17:21  <Rubidium> wiki *writing* is even better for learning
16:17:24  <Bluelight> I'm always curious.. :)
16:17:36  <Goulp> rubidium: Source code reading also
16:17:44  <Bluelight> He he, yeah..
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16:18:01  <Bluelight> Advanced stuff.. I still don't understand what headers do..
16:18:23  <Bluelight> iostream.h
16:18:34  <Goulp> iostream.h useless
16:18:43  <Sacro> #include <iostream>
16:18:45  <Bluelight> He he..
16:18:48  <Goulp> for learing how works OpenTTD
16:18:49  <Sacro> cout < "nooob" < endl;
16:18:59  <Bluelight> He he..
16:19:00  <Tennel> <<
16:19:13  <Tennel> cout << "noob" << endl;
16:19:15  <Rubidium> Sacro: that'll definitely cause compile warnings
16:19:21  <Goulp> Print "Noob" : End
16:19:36  <Xaroth> System.Diagnostics.Debug.WriteLine("noob");
16:20:03  <Bluelight> So I have to dive into scripts.. :(
16:20:13  <Bluelight> What is the wiki url?
16:20:23  <Xaroth> wiki......
16:20:23  <Goulp> replace 3w by wiki
16:20:49  <Goulp> as shown in the channel title
16:20:59  <Xaroth> and on the public website
16:21:21  <Goulp> on the public website: just clic
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17:49:21  <Bluelight> How do I get companies to bankrupt after someone disconnects from the servewr?
17:50:46  <Bluelight> Aaahhhh!! There are players on my server..
17:50:50  <Bluelight> BRB
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17:53:18  <Rubidium> reset_company?
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17:54:19  <Ammler> :-)
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18:02:13  <De_Ghosty> can i com level your game?
18:02:17  <De_Ghosty> come*
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18:10:11  <Bluelight> Sure..
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18:46:02  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r18757 /trunk/src/lang/ (14 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:46:02  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:46:02  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: catalan - 1 changes by arnau
18:46:02  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 69 changes by EraserKing
18:46:02  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
18:46:04  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: czech - 11 changes by ReisRyos
18:46:04  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: danish - 11 changes by beruic
18:47:37  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18758 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Change: move Malay to the 'finished' languages
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19:07:41  <sparr> how "broken" would you consider old saves to be if signs displayed in a different location?
19:08:12  * FauxFaux would hope that signs were saved against an integer tile reference.
19:08:50  <Eddi|zuHause> sparr: how about you ask a real question?
19:14:46  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r18759 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix [NewGRF]: don't segfault when a newgrf contains an action2 and action3 but no action0
19:16:10  <Yexo> sparr: if signs from old savegames appear at wrong locations please open a bugreport at
19:16:23  <Yexo> if that's no the case, as Eddi|zuHause said ask your real question
19:18:45  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r18760 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (rlots)[FS#3500]: Action 9 did not properly detect whether an Action 8 was encountered already.
19:28:29  <sparr> FauxFaux: they are
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19:29:55  <sparr> FauxFaux: but the placement of the sign with respect to that tile is different at different zoom levels
19:30:17  <sparr> and which tile a sign is related to is not obviously visible
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19:36:13  <sparr> so I see a lot of signs that are placed such that a </>/v/^ "points" to the intended target
19:36:19  <sparr> which seems like a very clunky solution
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19:46:00  <Eddi|zuHause> sparr: you are speaking in riddles
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19:52:45  <andythenorth> hi
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19:53:52  <Yexo> hello andythenorth
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19:55:15  <Roelmb> can anyone help me with this error i get in Visual c++ 2008 express will compiling openttd       src\bridge_gui.cpp(23) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'table/strings.h': No such file or directory
19:56:02  <Yexo> yes, try compiling the whole solution instead of only the openttd project
19:56:19  <Yexo> table/string.h is build by the langs project
19:56:30  <Roelmb> so everything that i get from the svn
19:57:49  <Yexo> yes
19:58:08  <Yexo> if you open the solution you'll see 4 projects: "langs", "openttd", "strgen" and "version"
19:59:45  <Roelmb> yea
20:01:06  <Yexo> under "build" in the menu there is both "Build solution" and "build openttd" (or another proejct name if you selected another one
20:01:11  <Yexo> try "Build solution"
20:01:43  <Roelmb> nope still error
20:02:25  <Yexo> can you try and right-click the langs project, then select build
20:02:27  <Yexo> does that work?
20:03:23  <Roelmb> which of the to i have langs_vs80 and langs_vs90
20:03:40  <Yexo> just open the solution in visual studio first
20:03:49  <Yexo> then you should see the project in the solution explorer
20:05:48  *** roelmb2 [~roelyves@] has joined #openttd
20:06:07  <roelmb2> got disconnected
20:06:23  <Yexo> just open the solution in visual studio first
20:06:24  <Yexo> then you should see the project in the solution explorer
20:06:28  <Yexo> that where my latest messages
20:07:04  <roelmb2> ok thnx which solution the one i made my self or the ones that are in the openttd directory
20:07:41  <Yexo> you made a solution yourself?
20:07:49  <Yexo> maybe it's better to start over completely
20:07:53  <roelmb2> i think so
20:08:00  <Yexo> just open projects/openttd_vs90.sln
20:08:05  <roelmb2> ok now i have vs90 opened
20:08:27  <Yexo> no .vcproj, but the .sln
20:08:39  <roelmb2> ok
20:09:15  <Yexo> do you see the 4 projects in the solution explorer now?
20:09:50  <roelmb2> yea
20:10:09  <Yexo> then try "Build"->"Build solution" now
20:10:44  <roelmb2> now i get the music error (did i forget to install directx thingy? not that i know)
20:10:58  <Yexo> then your directx install is not correct
20:11:07  <Yexo> did you install openttd-useful btw?
20:11:14  <Yexo> if not that may also be the problem
20:11:23  <roelmb2> usefull ? the files or what
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20:11:39  <Yexo>
20:11:48  <Yexo> you need some header files / libraries to compile openttd
20:11:58  <Yexo> they're packed in a zip (see link above)
20:12:08  <roelmb2> that ones i have where to find the directx so i can reinstall it
20:12:31  <Yexo> there is a link on the openttd wiki
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20:13:13  <roelmb2> found it
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20:16:53  <Tennel> hi, which irc bouncers are you using?
20:19:06  <roelmb2> damn the file from the directx takes 15 min to download XD
20:20:35  <Yexo> only 15? I remember having to wait over an hour for the download to finish
20:20:58  <roelmb2> hehe i download it with wireless normally it goes at lightning speed
20:22:27  <roelmb2> is their a way to get an newer patch to an older version without rewriting half of the code
20:22:49  <peter1138> hmm
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20:24:06  <Yexo> <roelmb2> is their a way to get an newer patch to an older version without rewriting half of the code <- no (and I don't understand why you'd want that)
20:25:23  <roelmb2> because i need to get the patch to a version of cargodist but the version of cargodist is not really compatible with the patch
20:25:58  <roelmb2> and if i change the version of cargodist all my other patches won't work anymore
20:26:21  <Alberth> going back in time will only increase your problems in the future
20:27:13  <roelmb2> i see so the only thing i can do is search for newer patches or rewrite the older ones
20:29:23  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
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20:29:47  <roelmb2> what are you laughing with XD
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20:30:40  <planetmaker> two paths ahead of you: you make a patch pack or you quit compiling ;-)
20:30:42  <Alberth> technically, you can backport a patch to an older version, but the effort is kind of the same as going forward, and eventually you will need to go in that direction anyway (changes tend to have a good reason of being done)
20:31:12  <Alberth> or stop making using patches :)
20:31:16  <planetmaker> Alberth: are you sure you change openttd with a concept and for a reason? >:-)
20:31:54  <roelmb2> I need cargodist for my clan we like playing that but the newest version has some things that should be added
20:32:42  <Alberth> planetmaker: with a concept yes ; for a reason, perhaps :)      most changes in openttd are bugfixes though
20:33:53  <planetmaker> he, Alberth, I even read through your oo-window concept before you even started ;-) I added the wrong smiley. ;-) or... however to mark irony
20:34:21  <roelmb2> for example we like to use distant join stations but in cargodist it isn't implented now i tried to put it in and it became doing weird things
20:34:43  <planetmaker> roelmb2: cargodist is not THAT old
20:34:58  <Alberth> every version of openttd has things that should be added, including trunk
20:35:19  <planetmaker> you should hunt for the link to the git repo and clone that
20:35:38  <roelmb2> that i know but it has some weird things in it and also we would like to have the copy paste patch but that one is really old (the ones i found on the board)
20:36:03  <planetmaker> uh... so you take a fossil version of cargodist in order to add c&p?
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20:36:09  <Alberth> planetmaker: you cannot have read my document before I started, I wrote it after writing the first patch :p
20:36:18  <Bluelight> What is engine_renew = false
20:36:27  <Bluelight> Company
20:36:30  <planetmaker> cargodist repo should be up to trunk with maybe a lag of two weeks or so
20:36:51  <roelmb2> i took the newest version of cargodist XD but after a will i took an older one to get some neccesary patches in it
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20:36:55  <planetmaker> Alberth: ok, let's say when you still tried to convince Rubidium that your concept is a good one :-)
20:37:18  <planetmaker> roelmb2: I doubt you did. What is "newest"? (Link)
20:37:53  <planetmaker> roelmb2: you're also aware that you'll have to give the binaries to all your mates, right?
20:38:03  <Yexo> Bluelight: it's to enable/disable autorenew
20:38:05  <Bluelight> I can't close my server.. It will wreck everything for those guys playing there.. lol
20:38:06  <planetmaker> and that they cannot play w/o them
20:38:16  <Bluelight> What is autorenew?
20:38:30  <Yexo> see the wiki
20:38:44  <roelmb2> planetmaker: this is the link to the topic
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20:39:04  <Alberth> Bluelight: you have 300 vehicles, that are all beyond their lifetime, renewing them manually is boring
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20:39:37  <roelmb2> planetmaker: yes i'm aware of that and why shouldn't i put the binaries online
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20:40:01  <planetmaker> only make available the whole bundles.
20:40:07  <Bluelight> ohh
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20:40:10  <Alberth> planetmaker: any progress on the newgrf gui?
20:40:38  <planetmaker> Alberth: unfortunately not. :S
20:40:39  <roelmb2> planetmaker: and what then
20:40:49  <planetmaker> git clone <-- you got that version, roelmb2 ?
20:41:25  <roelmb2> no i got the one thats to the trunk
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20:42:25  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r18761 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_house.cpp newgrf_industrytiles.cpp): -Fix [FS#3497]: Spritelayouts do not need an Action 1 if only using default sprites.
20:42:56  <planetmaker> roelmb2: the link I gave that IS trunk
20:43:08  <Eddi|zuHause> <roelmb2> for example we like to use distant join stations but in cargodist it isn't implented now i tried to put it in and it became doing weird things <-- err... distant join has been included for months...
20:43:10  <planetmaker> with cargodist fit in.
20:43:25  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: I try to tell him for long now ;-)
20:43:28  <roelmb2> it was an example XD
20:43:44  <planetmaker> I guess he's using an antique version dating back to 1943 or so
20:43:51  <Eddi|zuHause> wrong examples do not exactly support your point :p
20:44:27  <Eddi|zuHause> roelmb2: and generally, if you want to port patches to cargodist, you better use the git version
20:44:30  <roelmb2> planetmaker: and with what do i need to get the git
20:44:32  <planetmaker> a point well made, Eddi|zuHause ;-)
20:44:45  <planetmaker> roelmb2: yes, you do
20:45:06  <Eddi|zuHause> roelmb2: of course you need git to get the git
20:45:37  <roelmb2> fine i just downloaded the patch next to the link of the git
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20:52:56  <andythenorth> for Manufacturing Supplies, cargo label MNSP or MASP?
20:53:14  <andythenorth> or MFSP or MGSP?
20:53:28  <FauxFaux> MFSP
20:53:37  <andythenorth> any other votes?
20:53:53  <roelmb2> MFSP
20:54:29  <Rubidium> use STUF and use it for everything. Makes it all a lot easier
20:54:47  <FauxFaux> Shut the up fuuuuuuuuu?
20:54:52  <andythenorth> Rubidium: nah, it'll conflict with the existing grf that does that
20:55:31  <andythenorth> How about MATT for Matter
20:55:36  <andythenorth> then AMAT for Anti-Matter?
20:55:50  <andythenorth> seems to have most things covered
20:56:01  <Rubidium> what about "   "
20:56:24  <andythenorth> empty space?
20:56:46  <Rubidium> yeah
20:57:04  <FauxFaux> Oh, haha, you meant "stuff".  That totally didn't occur tome.
20:57:05  <andythenorth> oh god the wiki formatting for the cargo labels table is terrifying :o
20:57:11  <andythenorth> I'm actually scared to edit it
20:57:30  <Rubidium> or... in Haskell 'speak' "____"
20:57:42  <Rubidium> (don't care)
20:58:20  <andythenorth> how is this in any way better than html:
20:58:22  * frosch123 would prefer it being mediawiki instead of tikiwiki
20:58:22  <andythenorth> wiki crap
20:58:39  * andythenorth would prefer a proper markup instead of this childish crap
20:59:13  <frosch123> andythenorth: what do you expect from a nfo description :p
20:59:32  <andythenorth> it's only cargo labels...
20:59:41  <andythenorth>
21:00:18  * andythenorth stops whining
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21:03:49  <andythenorth> MFSP was nice, but too easily confused with FMSP when coding.  I've defined it as MNSP
21:04:47  <frosch123> MSPL :p
21:07:17  <Alberth> SUPL
21:08:22  <Eddi|zuHause> what about MSUP?
21:08:51  <planetmaker> are you sure they're a supremum? ;-)
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21:09:42  <Eddi|zuHause> it's more about feeling than about being sure ;)
21:11:01  <Eddi|zuHause> technically, the cargo labels are integers, so it doesn't have to match a letter sequence at all...
21:11:34  <Yexo> true, but as AI author I wouldn't like a cargo label with invalid characters
21:11:59  <Eddi|zuHause> or add some more fun, make them lower case ;)
21:12:16  <frosch123> yeah, use "Eddi"
21:12:19  <Belugas> ATNL
21:12:29  <Belugas> Andy The North Lable
21:13:22  <Eddi|zuHause> andy always reminds me of the first doctor who episode: "why do you speak like someone from the north?" - "lots of planets have a north."
21:13:50  <Alberth> frosch123: we already have TOUR
21:15:15  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause: For a given value of first.
21:15:33  <andythenorth> more importantly, why do the 'corrupt sprite' question marks make the game run dog slow / crash ?
21:15:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Prof_Frink: the first one that i have seen
21:16:23  <Prof_Frink> First of the 'new' Who, certainly.
21:16:26  <andythenorth> or are the question marks just an indication that I've broken the grf, and therefore the slowness is some choking nfo...
21:16:28  <andythenorth> ?
21:16:46  <Eddi|zuHause> Prof_Frink: well, obviously.
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22:04:15  <peter1138> ... ... ...
22:04:21  <peter1138>
22:04:54  *** ajmiles [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:05:15  <Aali> peter1138: whats wrong?
22:05:24  <FauxFaux> Not enough signals.
22:05:50  <Rubidium> HAHA
22:05:57  <Rubidium> omflol
22:06:13  <Rubidium> epicness of epicness
22:06:24  <sawtooth> heh, adding more track to that must be annoying.  gotta remove the signals first.
22:06:34  <FauxFaux> I totally don't get it. /o\
22:06:49  * Rubidium wonders how many got the wtf
22:06:59  <Aali> the no signal gap thing atleast isn't hurting the trains
22:07:02  <FauxFaux> Both entry signals to the refinery are one way, but.. =p
22:07:07  <Aali> the broken presignals are
22:07:13  <peter1138>
22:07:43  <Rubidium> disabled 90 degree turns?
22:07:50  <peter1138> Rubidium, it seems that, actually, nobody knows how to signal :s
22:08:09  <rane> is there any reason to use path signals on a straight track like that?
22:08:13  <rane> instead of block signals
22:08:34  <Yexo> no
22:08:36  <Aali> rane: yes, it will use slightly more CPU
22:08:47  <frosch123> and you can reverse trains
22:08:56  <rane> alright, might be useful here then
22:08:59  <rane> -20?C
22:09:04  <frosch123> (though why would you want to :p)
22:09:07  <rane> also, path signals look cooler
22:09:20  <Belugas> hehehe
22:09:23  <Belugas> ho...
22:09:25  <peter1138> you guys need to learn up on signalling if you can't see anything wrong
22:09:26  <Belugas> time to go home!
22:09:27  <Belugas> bye!!
22:09:30  <sawtooth> also easier than switching the signal type
22:09:31  <peter1138> Belugas, enjoy
22:09:43  <Belugas> will, will peter!
22:09:48  * Belugas is gone
22:10:03  <andythenorth> be gone
22:10:06  <andythenorth> with you
22:10:10  <andythenorth> good night :)
22:10:29  <rane> I can see many weird things but I don't have enough experience to say for sure what's *wtf*
22:11:04  <Aali> everything is wtf, really
22:11:08  <Yexo> night Belugas
22:11:14  <andythenorth> well one wtf is how boring it must be to place that many signals on diagonal track
22:11:15  <Aali> not one single signal is optimally placed
22:11:28  <Yexo> andythenorth: drag-drop signals with signal distance 1
22:11:34  <Yexo> not boring at all
22:11:42  <sawtooth> peter1138: and the path signals clearly are not in safe waiting places
22:12:08  *** Antigon [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:12:27  <peter1138> aww, they gave up and left
22:12:38  <peter1138> wonder how long until there's bug reports that signals don't work ;p
22:12:43  <andythenorth> since when did signal drag and drop work on n-s track?  Seems I know nothing about signals either
22:12:57  <sawtooth> hmm...that is a nice looking font in that interface peter1138
22:13:02  <Aali> andythenorth: ctrl-click and drag one square
22:13:05  <sawtooth> at least better than whatever my openttd is using
22:13:08  <Aali> boom, whole track filled
22:13:25  <peter1138> Liberation Sans, Bold 16
22:16:52  <andythenorth> randomly found this while testing something else:
22:17:44  <Yexo> nice :)
22:17:54  <Yexo> andythenorth: is that a single industry with multiple tilelayouts?
22:17:57  <andythenorth> yes
22:18:03  <Yexo> hmm
22:18:05  <andythenorth> well, no
22:18:13  <andythenorth> it's four industries
22:18:31  <andythenorth> do you mean 'industry id' or 'instance on the map' :)
22:18:35  <Yexo> industry id
22:18:36  <rane> what kind of industry is that?
22:18:41  <andythenorth> it's one industry id
22:18:43  <Yexo> ok
22:18:48  <andythenorth> rane: fishing harbour
22:18:55  <andythenorth> Yexo: should it feature a dock?
22:18:57  <Yexo> <- prop 14/15 I added yesterday
22:18:59  <Xaroth> looks quite nice
22:19:11  <Xaroth> what it do?
22:19:16  <andythenorth> supplies fish
22:19:18  <rane> is that downloadable? I haven't seen much decent looking NewGRF so far
22:19:21  <rane> that looks nice indeed
22:19:25  <Yexo> I think I should find a way to have a different arrivel tile per tilelayout
22:19:32  <Yexo> or maybe it needs a callback for it
22:20:18  <andythenorth> rane, it's in FIRS which is in development.  There is a nightly, but I don't recommend it this week, it's going through birthing pains ;)
22:20:27  <Yexo> but that only brings me to the next problem that it'd be an airport callback and an airport callback can't access the industry information
22:20:28  <andythenorth> unless you like contributing to newgrf development by testing
22:20:48  <rane> does
22:20:58  <rane> does it contain other industries besides that?
22:21:04  <peter1138> Yexo, parent scope?
22:21:13  <andythenorth> rane
22:21:27  <peter1138> (although that's probably already taken)
22:21:33  <Yexo> peter1138: parent scope for airports is the closest town
22:21:44  <frosch123> yeah, we need a third scope for both
22:21:56  <frosch123> airport->industry, and industry/industrytile->airport
22:22:10  <peter1138> either third scope, or just add industry properties to airport varactions
22:22:24  <peter1138> (bit messy mind you)
22:22:30  <frosch123> peter1138: industry variables and station variables conflict
22:22:46  <frosch123> esp. 80+ stuiff :p
22:22:56  <peter1138> hmm, true, i was thinking it was new stuff for both. weird
22:23:02  <Yexo> oh, parent scope for airports is currently the vehicle (if any)
22:23:03  <andythenorth> Yexo: so the current method of providing a special tile in the industry layout would be deprecated?
22:23:12  <Yexo> andythenorth: most likely yes
22:23:17  <andythenorth> ok
22:23:27  <Yexo> that is, "if it's up to me yes"
22:23:51  <andythenorth> currently the 18h tile magic is a bit crap anyway
22:23:56  <frosch123> so you found a way around needing stationtiles, or is there one hidden somewhere?
22:24:07  <peter1138> add more scopes, if that's possible
22:24:10  <Yexo> I don't need station tiles
22:24:20  <Yexo> ships don't need station tiles, just a station and a destination tile
22:24:28  <Yexo> and the destination tile should be plain water,so that was easy to implement
22:24:51  <Yexo> planes did need station tiles, but that was only a single assert that needed changing
22:25:04  <frosch123> what happens if a ship is in the statemachine and you turn the entrytile into land? :p
22:25:21  <Yexo> well currently ships can't enter the statemachine :)
22:25:27  <Yexo> haven't implemented that part yet
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22:25:45  <Yexo> but that's a good point
22:25:56  <Yexo> on the other hand the entrytile is not necesarily the exit tile
22:26:00  <Yexo> so it might be valid
22:26:17  <frosch123> hmm, multiple entry/exit tiles are complicated, as not every entrytile might be connected to sea.
22:26:42  <Yexo> my current idea was to limit it to a single entry tile
22:26:44  <frosch123> and enforcing ships to only use the same tile for exit as for entering is weird
22:26:53  <Yexo> exit tiles are defined by the statemachine, so multiple exit tiles are no problem
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22:27:23  <Yexo> but if not all exit tiles are connected that could be a problem
22:27:30  <frosch123> Yexo: well, not for the statemachine, but for the player :p
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22:27:54  <sparrL> the decreasing payments for slow cargo delivery is a factor not sufficiently conveyed by the available graphs.  i wish the new graphs patch was current, instead of hundreds of revisions old
22:27:56  <Yexo> yes :)
22:28:20  <frosch123> so, maybe the singletile thingie is good enough for a start :)
22:28:43  <sparrL> I knew that time was a factor, but I never realised that total profit could actually go DOWN for making longer deliveries
22:28:52  <sparrL> yay for the wiki :)
22:28:53  <frosch123> you would also get a stationtile again if you protect it from terraforming by placing a oilrigstationtile there :p
22:29:01  <Yexo> hehe :)
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22:29:44  <frosch123> hmm, btw., doesn't ais need stationtiles?
22:30:55  <Yexo> perhaps, haven't thought much about that yet
22:30:58  <andythenorth> if you prevent ships from using the state machine....
22:31:05  <andythenorth> ....I won't have to code the bloody state machine for them :P
22:31:08  <andythenorth> :D
22:31:34  <Yexo> andythenorth: if you just have an arrival tile where the ships can stop and load/unload (like the existing dock) the statemachine is very easy
22:31:40  <andythenorth> exactly...
22:31:50  <frosch123> andythenorth: just confess yexo to use a default statemachine if none is supplied
22:31:55  <andythenorth> anyway, I don't know enough about this aspect so I'll shutup
22:32:33  <Yexo> andythenorth: it's be as simple as a single varaction2 (not a varaction2 chain, a single sprite)
22:33:42  <andythenorth> ok
22:42:12  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r18762 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: unduplicate sprite layout drawing between industries and houses
22:42:55  <frosch123> hmm, some boring day i will start a poll about "unduplicate" vs. "undupify" vs. "deduplicate" :p
22:45:59  *** Rubix`` [] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: 540 seconds]
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22:46:24  <asilv> only one google hit for undupify :)
22:46:46  <asilv> but 2 more soon I guess
22:51:41  *** Sweet|Home [] has joined #openttd
22:51:44  <frosch123> <- :)
22:55:46  <frosch123> unduplication < unduplicate < deduplicate < deduplicated <  unduplicated < deduplication
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23:00:35  * frosch123 should better go to sleep
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23:05:33  <SpComb> peter1138: stop playing online
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23:18:21  <andythenorth> when cargo is distributed from station to neighbouring industry, could it use round-robin, not nearest neighbour?
23:28:10  <Rubidium> could yes, but that's more expensive to calculate
23:28:22  <Rubidium> because then it also happens for houses
23:28:38  <Rubidium> hmm, no not for houses, that's only the other way around
23:29:06  <Rubidium> although it should share passengers with houses then :)
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23:42:59  <__ln> interesting situation:  (no nudity)
23:43:54  <Chrill> no nudity? aww
23:44:04  <Chrill> There we go, channel contribution of the day
23:56:44  <sawtooth> Chrill: at least my day is now complete
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