Log for #openttd on 10th January 2010:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:31  <PeterT> it was 'too complicated'?
00:02:32  <Eddi|zuHause> [09.01.2010 23:41] <peter1138> back in the day, games that ran at 640x480 *were* high resolution <-- yesterday i read the wikipedia article about "Siedler", and when it said the first PC version had a resolution of 320x200 i couldn't believe it at first...
00:08:28  <SpComb> hmm... seems IS and cargodist work together OK in terms of in-game?
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00:08:43  <SpComb> cargo is routed alright between two stations with different owners
00:08:55  <SpComb> but the linkgraph only shows the current company by default
00:09:18  <SpComb> fonsinchen1: do you have an opinion as to cargodist + infrastructure sharing?
00:09:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i always wondered this: how does IS handle transfers between different companies? how does it resolve who gets which payment?
00:09:45  <SpComb> fonsinchen1: seems station cargo is routed just fine when a vehicle has stations from different companies in its orders
00:12:37  <SpComb>
00:13:33  <SpComb> that's with a quick hack for the linkgraph:
00:14:02  <PeterT> can I get the quick hack for CargoDist and IS?
00:14:12  <SpComb> no, don't distribute it
00:14:25  <PeterT> Why?
00:14:35  <SpComb> cargodist + IS seems to "work" out-of-the-box, the minimap link graph just doesn't show the nodes/links for other companies
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00:14:51  <SpComb> well that assumes all vehicles and stations are trains
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00:20:01  <PeterT> SpComb: I've applied cargodist_r18750.diff
00:20:07  <PeterT> now applying IS2 patch
00:22:30  <fonsinchen1> Cargodist should work fine with IS. It doesn't care about who the stations belong to
00:22:39  *** fonsinchen1 is now known as fonsinchen
00:23:15  <sparrL> fjb: for airplanes the problem seems a bit simpler, since their distance to be traveled is knowable (and falls between the linear distance and the manhattan distance)
00:23:17  <PeterT> yes, only one Failed!!
00:23:26  <sparrL> fjb: terrain doesn't affect them
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00:24:59  <PeterT> SpComb: Can you explain again how to solve this?
00:25:20  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: empirical evidence suggests: two links (operated by different companies, with one common stations) with a usage ratio of 31:75 make a profit of 6k:37k
00:25:26  <ashb> PeterT: open up src/economy.cpp.rej and src/economy.cpp.orig
00:25:34  <ashb> and maunally copy the changes over
00:25:44  <ashb> it will likely be a small change that stops it working automatically
00:25:45  <PeterT> to what file?
00:25:48  <SpComb> PeterT: yes, that's the same reject that I got, and it's a trivial trivial fix
00:25:51  <ashb> to src/economy.cpp
00:26:33  <PeterT> when opened, will the changes be shown, or will the entire file be shown?
00:26:39  <SpComb> PeterT: i.e. copy the `#include "foo.h"` line as indicated in the .rej to the end of the list of #include's in the .cpp
00:26:48  <SpComb> without the patch's "+" prefix, of course
00:26:53  <PeterT> Ok
00:27:08  <SpComb> PeterT: .cpp is the partially patched file, .orig is the unpatched file, and .rej is a list of hunks that failed
00:27:18  <PeterT> I just opened .ref
00:27:21  <PeterT> *.rej
00:27:51  <PeterT> is there a specific order for the #include's?
00:28:18  <SpComb> usually no
00:28:25  <PeterT> what about now/
00:29:01  <SpComb> PeterT: the issue here is that both of the .patch's that you've applied add a new line to the same place
00:29:34  <SpComb> PeterT: so the only thing you need to determine is the relative order of those two lines - in this case it shouldn't matter, but new lines are generally added to the end
00:30:42  <SpComb> (well, in this case, the trunk version's slightly different, so a line was added there in trunk - doesn't matter)
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00:31:33  <PeterT> thanks, SpComb for all your info
00:31:37  <PeterT> I just made the diff
00:31:52  <PeterT> I noticed you didn't distribute yours, was there a reason?
00:31:56  <PeterT> should I keep mine?
00:32:24  <SpComb> nah, it's my hacky .patch to "fix" the minimap GUI that I don't want to distribute :)
00:32:36  <SpComb> merged patches are perfectly fine to distribute
00:32:42  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit []
00:32:45  <SpComb> of course, you take responsibility for any merge bugs, then
00:33:04  <PeterT> didn't you link your hack atch to fix it before?
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00:34:06  <SpComb> yes, for curiosity, but it doesn't make any sense to distribute a build with it included :P
00:35:31  <PeterT> oh
00:35:34  <PeterT> I just applied it
00:35:38  <PeterT> so now I have two patches
00:36:11  * SpComb is looking for a better solution atm
00:36:22  <PeterT> :-)
00:36:29  <PeterT> You should make a forum topic for this
00:36:30  <PeterT> skillz
00:36:44  <SpComb> disgress
00:37:14  * PeterT is compiling CargoDist and Infrastructure Sharing
00:37:18  <PeterT> I love you, SpComb
00:37:33  <PeterT> ... as a developer
00:39:02  <PeterT> SpComb: You have crash:
00:40:42  <SpComb> boo
00:42:36  <SpComb> same one as earlier
00:43:15  <PeterT> then it's just a reminder... fix it
00:43:24  <Eddi|zuHause> didn't rubidium commit some kind of fix earlier?
00:43:40  <SpComb> yeah, someone complained about the same assert in 1.0.0-beta1
00:44:03  <SpComb> but if it happens when placing a PBS-signal, I'm guessing at an increased-daylength related overflow in tick_counter
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00:44:14  <SpComb> well, it hints at...
00:44:42  <Eddi|zuHause> @openttd commit 18764
00:44:43  <fonsinchen> The fix for FS#3499 is not about that assertion. At least it doesn't say so.
00:44:44  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Commit by rubidium :: r18764 /trunk/src (12 files in 2 dirs) (2010-01-09 14:43:08 UTC)
00:44:45  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: -Fix [FS#3422]: split the (un)load ticks counter and signal wait counter; sometimes they might get into eachother's way
00:45:02  <fonsinchen> And it's very disturbing that the crash seems to be nondeterministic.
00:45:24  <fonsinchen> If it is, it's also a possible desync
00:45:33  <SpComb> tick_counter was used in so many different ways...
00:45:48  <fonsinchen> Still it should be deterministic
00:45:55  <SpComb> I had assumed it was something with cargodist's modifications to the order handling
00:46:09  <fonsinchen> but at least from Dj Nekkid's save I can't reproduce it.
00:46:32  <fonsinchen> SpComb: maybe, but then it should still be deterministic.
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00:47:30  <fonsinchen> and michielh's comment suggests that reloading the autosave avoids the crash. This is another hint at the crash being nondeterministic
00:47:50  <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: there are different kinds of nondeterminisms
00:48:07  <Eddi|zuHause> one is hitting the exact moment on when to place the signal
00:49:32  <fonsinchen> ah, you're right there. Maybe that's why I can't reproduce DJ Nekkid's problem. He seems to be placing a signal there, too.
00:51:13  <PeterT> SpComb: Want to play with me?
00:51:16  <PeterT> on CDIS?
00:51:56  <fonsinchen> thanks for the hint.
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00:54:38  <PeterT> Why isn't there a way to join an AI's company if you are the server?
00:54:45  <PeterT> not even with "move" or "Join"
00:59:09  <Eddi|zuHause> because that's a cheat
01:00:16  <SpComb> fonsinchen: if it's signal-placing, then I guess it must be the 16-bit tick counter overflowing with a high value for DAY_TICKS
01:00:49  <PeterT> <Eddi|zuHause> because that's a cheat <-- But it's not a cheat, you can move companies in multiplayer anyway
01:00:56  <PeterT> it's a cheat in single player?
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01:01:24  <Eddi|zuHause> you can only join human companies in multiplayer, server or not
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01:02:14  <Eddi|zuHause> joining AI companies is only available as a cheat
01:02:19  <PeterT> Ok
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01:08:31  <sparrL> *facepalm*
01:08:35  <sparrL> currency on the wiki is in pounds
01:09:36  <fjb> It's an English game.
01:10:04  <sparrL> yes
01:10:11  <roboboy> and its the default currency if I'm not mistaken
01:11:01  <PeterT> sparrL: the wiki is in British English
01:11:46  <roboboy> cyou
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01:16:59  <SpComb> PeterT: a test game of r18750 + cargodist + is2 +  ?
01:17:14  <PeterT> yes
01:17:27  <PeterT> it's "r18750M"
01:17:27  <SpComb> toss in the patch, shall I put up a server?
01:17:38  <PeterT> I'm using one without the patch
01:17:51  <SpComb> ah well, it's network-safe
01:19:03  <SpComb> PeterT:
01:19:33  <Sacro> SpComb: that sounds most fun
01:19:36  <PeterT> port?
01:19:41  <SpComb> std
01:20:28  <PeterT> SpComb: Your server isn't visible
01:20:32  <PeterT> not on
01:20:43  <SpComb> PeterT: nope
01:20:46  <SpComb> PeterT: add it directly
01:21:08  <SpComb> an oh, it's g63791e23M for me :(
01:21:19  <PeterT> yeah
01:21:20  <PeterT> I know
01:21:23  <PeterT> that's a problem
01:21:30  <PeterT> me and fonso are fixign my  git
01:21:32  <SpComb> nothing that can't be fixed
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01:22:45  <SpComb> PeterT: there
01:23:26  <PeterT> SpComb: Please tell me this isn't you:
01:24:23  <SpComb> no?
01:24:43  <PeterT> Ok
01:24:47  <SpComb> PeterT: click the "Add Server" button and then paste in
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01:29:19  <PeterT> @seen Pikka
01:29:19  <DorpsGek> PeterT: Pikka was last seen in #openttd 16 hours, 53 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <Pikka> but north america and europe seem to be having a worse time of it
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02:04:37  <sparr> SpComb: I am amazed at the level of source forking where multiple people would have such a widely varied combination of patches compiled at the same time
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02:27:06  <SpComb> sparr: it's easy!
02:27:25  <SpComb> plus, PeterT's company is going bankrupt
02:27:28  <SpComb> well, it just did
02:27:44  <sparr> I wouldn't even know where to get cargodist or is2 as patches (instead of whole trees)
02:28:06  <PeterT> for CargoDist:
02:28:07  <PeterT>
02:28:08  <sparr> more importantly, I am amazed that cargodist and is2 "play nice" together, I would expect them to have a LOT of overlap
02:28:25  <SpComb> sparr: the overlap is practically zero
02:28:31  <PeterT> and for IS2 patches:
02:28:32  <PeterT>
02:28:43  <SpComb> sparr: the only issue I've seen so far is that the minimap link graph only displays the stations for your own company
02:29:32  <SpComb> PeterT: well, did you get a screenshot?
02:29:37  <PeterT> Of?
02:29:40  <SpComb> the game :(
02:29:42  <PeterT> me being bankrupt?
02:29:44  <PeterT> yes, of course
02:29:47  <PeterT> that's long done
02:30:04  <PeterT>
02:30:32  <sparr> what's the svn command to check out a particular revision?
02:31:43  <SpComb> sparr: `svn up -rXXXX`
02:32:05  <sparr> heh
02:34:05  <PeterT> sparr: To checkout a specific revision... "svn co <url> -rXXXXX"
02:34:21  <sparr> cargodist_r18750.diff does not apply cleanly to r18750?
02:34:37  <SpComb> sparr: it does if you apply it correctly
02:34:58  <sparr> I take it "correctly" is not the normal patch < foo.diff ?
02:35:29  <SpComb> `patch -p1` for git-style patches
02:35:39  <SpComb> so, anyone else going to join?
02:35:45  <sparr> I will if I can compile
02:36:01  <SpComb> what platform?
02:36:14  <sparr> linux
02:36:19  <SpComb> then it should be easy
02:36:22  <sparr> i agree
02:37:57  <sparr> but it's not
02:39:36  * sparr checks out a fresh copy AGAIN
02:40:48  <sparr> note to self: make a backup of r18750 to avoid having to download it when the patch doesn't work again
02:41:33  <PeterT> now. imagine that, on Windows
02:41:39  <PeterT> yeah, scary
02:42:37  <PeterT> SpComb: Do you want me to set up a bot that connects in-game to IRC?
02:43:50  <sparr> 18696 is the latest IS2 diff?
02:44:13  <sparr> and IS2 r14597
02:44:30  <sparr> sooooo many diffs
02:45:17  <PeterT> IS2 r14597 isn't an SVN revision number, it's a Mercurial rev number
02:45:24  <sparr> right
02:45:26  <PeterT> IS2's mercurial repo
02:45:34  <sparr> the patch is against openttd r18696
02:45:39  <PeterT> yes
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02:45:45  <PeterT> but download r18750
02:45:48  <PeterT> apply cargodist
02:45:50  <PeterT> then IS2
02:45:55  <sparr> which IS2?
02:46:10  <PeterT> "openttd-is2-r18696-14597.p1.diff   "
02:47:13  <sparr> any advice on resolving the failed hunks?
02:49:25  <sparr> just copied the #include to one line later
02:50:13  <sparr> heh, configure doesn't like my path containing +s
02:50:51  <SpComb> PeterT: nah
02:50:54  <PeterT> sparr: that's about it
02:51:07  <SpComb> mercurial's rev numbers shouldn't be used like that
02:51:19  <SpComb> it should be "openttd-is2-r<trunk>-<hg hash>.diff"
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02:57:36  <sparr> SpComb: I have a version mismatch with your server
02:57:49  <sparr> likely because configure complained that I was not using an svn version
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02:58:50  <sparr> there, now I am using r18750M
03:00:47  <PeterT> good
03:04:40  <PeterT> SpComb, sparr: Join #cdis
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03:50:41  <Pikka> Singaporekid no
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04:16:43  <PeterT> I cannot beleive that IS and CargoDist is THIS fun...
04:27:11  * SpComb has 500k?!
04:32:02  * PeterT has k!
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04:45:02  <SpComb> of which half is from me as an interest-free loan that you'll never pay back!
04:45:28  <PeterT> :-)
04:45:33  <PeterT> how much did you give me?
04:45:38  <PeterT> I'll pay back now?
04:45:40  <SpComb> dunno, probably almost 100k
04:46:32  <PeterT> I left
05:02:43  <luckz> 05:16:43 < PeterT> I cannot beleive that IS and CargoDist is THIS fun... <- does it actually work these days?
05:02:52  <luckz> last I tried some months ago it sure didn't really
05:02:53  <PeterT> yes, actually, luckz
05:03:00  <PeterT> what didn't work about it?
05:03:22  <luckz> 99% chance of crashing whenever you clicked.. just about anything.
05:03:35  <PeterT> lol
05:03:37  <PeterT> ot
05:03:42  <PeterT> it's much more stable now
05:03:46  <luckz> I assume the cargo generated is  still a fixed amount X no matter how many destinations you're connected to?
05:04:53  <PeterT> i don't understnad
05:05:07  <PeterT> I'm off
05:05:08  <PeterT> night
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05:22:27  <shijir> hi guys
05:22:40  <shijir> which server is better
05:22:55  <shijir> hello?
05:33:45  <shijir> hello?
05:33:49  <shijir> anybody here?
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05:44:52  <kickflip> Hi, I was wondering what type of algorithm is used to determine which tiles are currently on the screen
05:54:19  <shijir> guys
05:54:29  <shijir> help
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06:07:26  <Bluelight> Whats the kick command in dedicated win server?
06:24:04  <DaZ_> kicking is baad m'kay?
06:25:28  <welshdragon> Bluelight: please refer to the wiki
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07:49:10  <Terkhen> good morning
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08:05:22  <Pikka> good morning terkhen et al
08:11:42  <peter1138> no u
08:11:44  <andythenorth> morning
08:12:10  <andythenorth> snow snow snow
08:12:30  <Terkhen> the bananas web says that there is a #openttdcoop NewGRF package, but I can't find it at the online content ingame
08:12:50  <andythenorth> ooh....Pikka might have an opinion...or not:
08:12:58  <andythenorth> my brain is bleeding trying to figure out what players need
08:13:07  * Terkhen suspects that the # is the culprit
08:13:17  <Terkhen> either that or my poor searching skills
08:14:44  <Pikka> Terkhen:
08:15:09  <welshdragon>
08:15:42  <Terkhen> I'm downloading it from that link, but I was wondering why it does not show up
08:16:35  <Pikka> andy: my ideas with PBI/TaI is all to do with stockpiling and doing "clever" things with the callbacks.  otherwise, industries are all a->b, and "more" industries don't really add anything to the gameplay
08:16:47  <Pikka> Terkhen: it's a pack of multiple grfs, not a grf
08:18:35  <Terkhen> I know, my question is why is there a "#openttdcoop NewGRF package" "NewGRF" listed at , but that "NewGRF" don't shows up ingame
08:20:08  <Pikka> because it's not a real newgrf?  I don't know.
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08:30:33  <roboboy> pikka did you ever code a seaplane that can land at seaports eg in Yexo's NewGRF Airports branch?
08:31:34  <Pikka> nope
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08:55:56  * andythenorth ponders a web based 'configurator' for players to customise FIRS
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08:59:35  <Terkhen> you will still get users that will ask why their FIRS does not match the configuration, either because they don't know how to set the parameters correctly or because they thought that the configuration would be magically applied to their game
09:00:38  <andythenorth> Terkhen: this would be a web app that builds a custom FIRS for players.  It's not going to happen, but it wouldn't actually be so hard to implement
09:02:12  <andythenorth> the FIRS site is driven by web gui to a python app.  The makefile runs from a text file config system using awk.  The nighly build server already exists...could be hooked together :)
09:02:14  <roboboy> can I use rcon to fastforward a game?
09:03:06  <Madis> no
09:03:23  <Madis> as fastforward relies totally on client pc speed
09:03:46  <andythenorth> if we're burning trees for fuel, do we burn 'wood' or 'lumber' ?
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09:04:54  <Terkhen> I see... it seems like a lot of work, I wouldn't do that just for people that don't check the README
09:06:14  <andythenorth> Terkhen: it would allow customising lots of things about a FIRS grf: what cargos, industries, cargo payment rates, probabilities, intro dates.  It would generate a whole new grf on the fly for download.
09:06:29  <andythenorth> It's not going to happen, except with planetmaker, one can never be sure :)
09:07:19  <peter1138> wood
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09:08:24  <Terkhen> as I said, a lot of work :P
09:08:30  <Terkhen> and a GRFID hell
09:08:39  <roboboy> can I change the year with rcon as the server im on with rcon started too early for trains
09:08:45  <andythenorth> Terkhen: yup, and a server-nightmare :)
09:09:01  <andythenorth> wood wood wood, it's good
09:09:21  <peter1138> roboboy, no
09:09:58  <roboboy> ok
09:10:08  <Terkhen> see you later
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09:13:59  <andythenorth> designing industry sets is educational
09:15:07  <Pikka> is good day to be industrial man
09:15:14  <andythenorth> logic says 'to produce a bulldozer I need more than steel.  Like plastic and stuff'
09:15:24  <Pikka> designing/researching any set is educational
09:16:18  <andythenorth> when it comes to playing, the logic changes
09:17:22  <andythenorth> in gameplay logic says "why deliver plastic parts to the machine shop at 2 units = 1units output, when 2 units of plastic can straight to town as goods"
09:17:27  <andythenorth> go /s
09:17:34  <Sacro> so, open pizza tycoon?
09:18:51  <andythenorth> the funny thing is, the longer chain would make more money overall.  Get paid for 3 units, instead of two.  Earnings per unit raw material are higher.
09:19:03  <andythenorth> But most players don't seem to care, and when I'm playing neither do I
09:19:18  <andythenorth> more steps in the chain != better
09:19:31  <andythenorth> but not enough steps == boring
09:19:47  <andythenorth> ho hum
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09:25:54  * peter1138 plays railroad tycoon
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09:48:07  <Roelmb> Can anybody tell me how to solvea c2228 error (left of '.remove_signals' must have class/struct/union
09:49:04  <Rubidium> what MSVC?
09:49:22  <Roelmb> with msvc 2008 express
09:50:04  <Rubidium> so MSVC doesn't support those new style initialisers yet... that's bad
09:50:15  <Rubidium> (assuming it is that)
09:50:24  <peter1138> make it support C99
09:50:27  <Roelmb> it is with the traffic light patch
09:50:49  <Roelmb> and how do i need to make it support c99
09:50:57  <peter1138> you can't
09:51:10  <Roelmb> solution?
09:51:16  <peter1138> fix or remove that patch
09:51:23  <Rubidium> peter1138: why not? Just go to One Microsoft Lane/whatever with a very big bag of money and tell them to do it :)
09:51:24  <Roelmb> damn
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09:57:58  <Roelmb> what compiler does support c99
09:58:52  <Rubidium> new GCCs should; don't know since when though
09:59:19  <Rubidium> (read: don't know whether GCC 3.4.5, mingw's default IIRC, supports C99)
09:59:54  <Pikka> I think microsoft has enough money, Rubidium.  you might need a different incentive...
10:00:58  <Rubidium> Pikka: but when you *are* the boss of Microsoft you can provide any incentive you want
10:01:12  <Roelmb> nevermind i'll look farther later on
10:01:18  <Pikka> are you the boss of microsoft?
10:01:34  <Rubidium> Pikka: no, but a big enough bag of money can change that
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10:03:02  <peter1138> pikka pikka pikka
10:03:30  *** Splex [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:03:45  <Pikka> peeter peeter pumpkin eeter
10:06:31  *** roboboy [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
10:08:12  * peter1138 looks for more iron ore
10:08:23  *** ajmiles [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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10:11:02  <andythenorth> peter1138: any under the bed?
10:11:06  <andythenorth> in the cupboard?
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10:14:15  <peter1138> no, just halfway across the map
10:14:57  <andythenorth> dunno, in that case try building a rail line?
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10:15:14  <peter1138> i could
10:15:16  <peter1138> in fact, i did
10:15:21  <peter1138> it's a bit crowded though
10:15:33  <peter1138> i'm sure 512x256 games used to feel massive
10:15:37  <peter1138> mind you there is a lot of water
10:16:15  <peter1138> and the expensive landscaping means players aren't shortcutting across it, heh
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10:19:18  <andythenorth> pictures?
10:21:28  *** amiles [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:21:33  <peter1138>
10:22:58  <andythenorth> funny looking railroad tycoon, I must have missed that version :P
10:23:14  <peter1138> i got bored of that
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10:45:16  <Pikka> hmm
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10:57:50  <andythenorth> hmm
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11:01:37  <peter1138> hmm
11:01:43  <Forked> mmhmmmm
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11:06:57  <andythenorth> someone always has to go too far
11:07:06  <andythenorth> spoils it for the rest :|
11:07:26  * Forked is ashamed and moves on to breakfast
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11:32:51  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
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11:40:45  <Nite_Owl> When I go full screen at a native resolution of 1920 x 1080 the icons at the top of the screen disappear completely and my taskbar is still visible - any suggestions?
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11:43:19  <Alberth> your screen displays the first 20 or so lines above the physical screen?
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11:44:28  <Alberth> s/your screen/your monitor/
11:45:02  <Nite_Owl> there is a noticeable black line at the top of the screen if I auto hide the taskbar if that is what you mean
11:45:44  <peter1138> is your taskbar at the top or bottom?
11:45:59  <Nite_Owl> top
11:46:18  <Nite_Owl> but there are no icons even if I have it at the bottom
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11:47:32  <Nite_Owl> just had thought - I did bump up the text size setting in Windows 7 to make things easier to read
11:48:45  <Nite_Owl> maybe that caused the icons to be off screen ??
11:49:09  <Nite_Owl> even though everything else is still on screen
11:49:35  <peter1138> well, more likely switching to full screen failed for some reason
11:50:29  <Nite_Owl> that is what I thought being that the taskbar is still there in full screen mode
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11:50:57  <Nite_Owl> maybe unlock the taskbar ??
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11:52:39  <Nite_Owl> nope - unlocking the taskbar did nothing
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11:54:04  <Nite_Owl> even if I exit the game with the full screen option on and then reload it and restart a game there are still no icons
11:54:29  <Nite_Owl> that is start a new game
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11:55:11  <Alberth> what happens if you set a window against the top in non-full-screen mode, then switch to full-screen?  (or is that not possible to do?)
11:55:11  <peter1138> switch resolution and back again
11:55:50  <Nite_Owl> in non full screen mode the icon are there
11:56:04  <Nite_Owl> icons
11:56:22  <Alberth> so the screen is moved up, it seems, for some reason
11:57:09  <Nite_Owl> let me try something - be back in a bit
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12:44:32  <Nite_Owl> Hello again
12:44:42  <Nite_Owl> Problem solved - sort of
12:45:55  <andythenorth_> hi hi
12:46:41  <Nite_Owl> Full screen mode is a no go unless I turn the display size down to a point that I can barely see anything either on the computer or in the game
12:46:55  <Nite_Owl> Hello andythenorth
12:49:42  <Nite_Owl> I am guessing that is a feature unique to newer versions of Windows
12:51:31  <Nite_Owl> it lets you keep your native resolution but increase the size of what appears on the screen in a rather universal fashion
12:53:31  <Nite_Owl> if you set it too high then some things might not show up on the screen. I am guessing that would be more likely to happen in a non window environment like a game.
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12:55:08  <Nite_Owl> although within OTTD is the first time I have encountered it so far
12:55:58  <Nite_Owl> of course I have only had this puter for less than a week so...
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12:57:03  <Nite_Owl> I will shut up now
12:57:44  <PeterT> My computer always fails to go into fullscreen
12:57:52  <PeterT> "Fullscreen mode failed"
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12:58:52  <Nite_Owl> it did not fail I just lost the icons off the top of the screen
12:59:20  <Alberth> Nite_Owl: want to swap with my Linux system?
12:59:49  <Alberth> with a *very* old CRT monitor :p
13:00:01  <Nite_Owl> no thank you
13:00:45  <Nite_Owl> I just put a 500Mhz Windows 98 machine out to pasture
13:01:20  <Nite_Owl> including a 70 pound, 20 inch CRT monitor
13:02:48  *** Jo [] has joined #openttd
13:03:10  <Jo> Hi everyone
13:03:26  <Nite_Owl> Hello Jo
13:03:42  <Jo> How are you, I am a new guy here.
13:04:39  <Nite_Owl> I am good - how are you?
13:05:17  <Jo> Yes, but I feel something trouble when playing the OPENTTD...
13:06:17  <Nite_Owl> The guilt of enjoyment perhaps?
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13:07:20  <Jo> Yeah... I spent too much time on it and being blamed by my wife...
13:07:57  <Nite_Owl> A wife and a computer do not mix well
13:12:48  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18769 /trunk/ (12 files in 6 dirs): -Codechange: replace MiniLZO with the real library. If you're using MSVC update openttd-useful, otherwise make sure you've got liblzo2 and it's development files installed.
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13:12:55  <Jo> Absolutely yes...
13:12:59  <PeterT> openttd-useful update?
13:13:52  <Jo> I got some patches in, but I don't know how to apply, can you tell how to do it???
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13:14:26  <PeterT> umm, that's against r23...
13:15:20  <peter1138> hehe
13:15:22  <peter1138> a bit old
13:16:48  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: i'd assume rather r3903 of openttd and r23 of the patch...
13:17:09  <PeterT> ahh
13:17:24  <PeterT> that makes ALOT more sense
13:17:42  <peter1138> still old :)
13:17:51  <Eddi|zuHause> Jo: anyway, might be more useful
13:19:27  <Jo> In fact, I want to have signal which support yellow signal infront of a red signal.
13:19:55  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, the "advance_signals_v2.patch" should do that for the new path signals
13:21:07  <Jo> Thanks Eddi... But how can I apply in OPENTTD?
13:21:20  <PeterT> you dont
13:21:47  <Eddi|zuHause> Jo: read the wiki articles on "Compiling on <your platform>"
13:22:04  <Eddi|zuHause> where platform might be "MSVC, MinGW, Linux, ..."
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13:22:15  <MasterSVK> aloha!
13:22:46  <Nite_Owl> Hello MasterSVK
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13:22:54  <MasterSVK> guys i have a problem and havent found any solution on forums so far
13:23:09  <MasterSVK> i cant move the "mini map" :-/
13:23:15  <SpComb> grr, annoying how the depot GUI doesn't let me drag arbitrary wagons on to their own row
13:23:18  <MasterSVK> when i right click it and move the mose it doesnt move :-/
13:23:33  <SpComb> is this some automagic user-friendlyness feature, or a bug in this old revision? :(
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13:24:14  <Jo> Eddi, If TortoiseSVN necessary for Windows Enviroment???
13:24:18  *** Muxy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:24:27  <Eddi|zuHause> not necessary, but useful
13:25:50  <Nite_Owl> right clicking on the main screen moves it around?
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13:26:26  <Eddi|zuHause> the technical term is "scrolling"
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13:27:08  <Eddi|zuHause> you can turn on scrolling at edge of the screen instead
13:27:27  <Rubidium> MasterSVK: what version are you using?
13:27:33  <MasterSVK> the latest beta
13:27:52  <MasterSVK> and i mean the mini map
13:28:01  <MasterSVK> not the main map
13:28:24  <MasterSVK> the one that pops up when you press m
13:28:40  <PeterT> MasterSVK: You really don't *have* to ask on IRC, then make a topic in tt-forums
13:28:49  <MasterSVK> i made
13:28:51  <MasterSVK> but you know
13:28:53  <fjb> Moin
13:28:58  <MasterSVK> i somehow wanna play it
13:29:05  <MasterSVK> and this is really annoying
13:29:17  <MasterSVK> so i thought that maybe someone on irc knows something about it
13:29:25  <Rubidium> what OS?
13:29:51  <PeterT> Rubidium: Why does MSVC need the libraries from openttd-useful, but MSYS doesn't?
13:29:53  <MasterSVK> w7 pro 64bit
13:30:41  <Rubidium> does right scrolling the main map work?
13:30:57  <MasterSVK> just sometimes
13:31:06  <MasterSVK> bit its more jumping than scrolling
13:31:14  <MasterSVK> same on the minimap :-/
13:31:29  <MasterSVK> *but
13:31:59  <MasterSVK> if i press and hold the rmb and move the mouse nothing happens
13:32:10  <MasterSVK> but if i click and move it jumps a bit
13:32:29  <Nite_Owl> could be a sick mouse
13:32:54  <MasterSVK> maybe doesnt like trains or something :-/
13:33:03  <MasterSVK> cause the mouse works perfect everywhere else
13:33:12  <PeterT> peter1138: Is that your UKRS server?
13:33:17  <Rubidium> MasterSVK: does it behave normally in 1.0.0-beta1 and 0.7.5?
13:33:28  <MasterSVK> let me go try out in the stable release
13:33:31  <MasterSVK> brb
13:33:41  <Nite_Owl> where else do you right click and move?
13:34:38  <MasterSVK> you have a newer bla bla
13:34:44  <MasterSVK> do i have to uninstall the beta?
13:34:47  <PeterT> no
13:34:54  <MasterSVK> dl the zip archive?
13:34:55  <PeterT> just get the 0.7.5 zip file
13:34:56  <PeterT> yes
13:35:05  <PeterT> then double-click openttd.exe
13:35:21  <PeterT> (assuming you have either original_windows/OGFX in your shared directory)
13:35:47  <Rubidium> yes, you can download the zip archive and extract that
13:37:22  <PeterT> Rubidium: Can you tell me why I need the newest openttd-useful to compile the newer releases?
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13:40:37  <MasterSVK> ok does the same in 0.7.5 :-/
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13:41:00  <peter1138> well, yes
13:41:17  <peter1138> PeterT, because... it's been updated. duh.
13:41:25  <Nite_Owl> sick mouse
13:41:43  <PeterT> that was there before, peter1138?
13:41:57  <peter1138> ...
13:43:50  <Alberth> PeterT: lzo2 is used for loading save games. Previously that code was included in openttd, now you have to provide it yourself. Useful to do if you want to load existing games
13:44:27  <PeterT> why isn't openttd-useful necesarry for MSYS?
13:45:04  <Rubidium> MasterSVK: do you by any chance have a different mouse that you can test it with? Given that the bug hasn't been introduced nor noticed in the last year it must be something very specific, so possibly something with the local hardware you're using.
13:46:41  <MasterSVK> just tested
13:46:45  <MasterSVK> the same
13:46:51  <Alberth> PeterT: apparently, MSYS provides useful libraries by itself, like any decent computer should
13:47:09  <PeterT> sounds like microsoft....
13:47:13  <MasterSVK> maybe os related?
13:47:45  <MasterSVK> let me try xpmode
13:48:07  <Alberth> PeterT: Since I am a Unix user, my view is somewhat biased :p
13:48:31  <PeterT> can I ask, why does GCC on linux provide crashlogs, but GCC on windows doesn't?
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13:49:59  <peter1138> GCC doesn't provide crashlogs
13:50:03  <roboboy> what do I need to pass to make in order to get a bundle from my MSVC compiled exe?
13:50:11  <Alberth> PeterT: Most likely, the kernel of the Win* OS doesn't tell the app it crashed.
13:50:23  <peter1138> perhaps you mean "openttd built with gcc on linux"
13:50:29  <PeterT> yes ^
13:50:50  <PeterT> Alberth: Umm, why not?
13:51:01  <PeterT> roboboy:
13:51:10  <Alberth> ask the manufacturers in Redmond
13:52:18  <Rubidium> roboboy: read Makefile.msvc
13:52:33  <MasterSVK> doh i need to reinstall xpmode :-/
13:53:03  <PeterT> wow, I create an entire guide on the MSVC page, and nobody notices it :-P
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13:54:25  <roboboy> hm so I can not use the win32 version of make
13:54:32  <glx_> <Alberth> PeterT: apparently, MSYS provides useful libraries by itself, like any decent computer should <-- it's more MSYS users should be able to compile libs themselves
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13:55:17  <Rubidium> and that MSYS installations have found themselves to be unstable w.r.t. what include paths work and what paths don't
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13:57:09  * roboboy wonders if MS provides a command line tool for creating zips
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14:02:29  * Alberth thinks the risks of that happening are not high
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14:06:47  <MasterSVK> same in xpmode
14:07:04  <MasterSVK> + i see the windows mouse in the game along with the game mouse :-/
14:13:47  <Rubidium> glx: any ideas what else might be buggy when right mouse scrolling doesn't work with a) Windows 7 professional 64 bits, b) at least two different mice, c) 0.7.5, 1.0.0-beta[12]?
14:14:53  <glx> win32 or win64 ottd build ?
14:16:10  <Rubidium> MasterSVK: glx's question is meant for you
14:16:12  <peter1138> do tooltips work?
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14:21:32  <Ammler> roboboy: 7zip should do that and most probably all other zip tools too ;-)
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14:23:03  <glx> Rubidium: everything works for me (win7 home premium 64)
14:24:27  <peter1138> nice to see the 32bpp graphics project totally missed the point
14:25:20  <glx> they use extra zoom ?
14:26:05  <Rubidium> peter1138: new slogan for them: "32bpp graphics, missing the point since the 2000s"
14:26:22  <peter1138> glx, not just that
14:26:43  <glx> ah they also create new sprites?
14:26:47  <roboboy> gnight
14:27:48  <peter1138> paraphrasing ben robbins, "32bpp graphics is work in progress so there's no need to organise a coordinated effort"
14:30:45  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18770 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Fix-ish: don't allow the memory saveload format to be chosen for savegames; it's utterly useless to make a snapshot in memory and then throw that away without doing anything with it.
14:32:56  <peter1138> hee
14:33:20  <peter1138> and the ground tiles that have been made are extra-zoom, and don't fit in the tile anyway
14:37:06  <MasterSVK> win32 in xpmode
14:37:15  <MasterSVK> and on 7 im running 64
14:37:45  <MasterSVK> sry guys but i run here and there so sry if i dont answer right away
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14:40:40  <Alberth> peter1138: they obviously do not need coordination :p
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14:48:10  <Nite_Owl> which mode are you in when the problem occurs?
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14:57:17  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18771 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Codechange: minor cleanups in saveload code
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15:27:56  <BolshajaSvinja> Hello
15:28:11  <BolshajaSvinja> I need little help
15:28:47  <BolshajaSvinja> How I can unban
15:28:50  <DaZ_> no you don't.
15:29:16  <Rubidium> with unban <ip address> I think
15:29:34  <BolshajaSvinja> Ok
15:30:41  <BolshajaSvinja> thanks
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15:31:12  <Singaporekid> Pikka
15:31:16  <PeterT> Rubidium: Easier way == "banlist" -> "Unban <number"
15:32:36  <MasterSVK> both
15:32:49  <MasterSVK> happens also in win7 and also when i run it in xp mode
15:33:03  <MasterSVK> ill try on other pc later on
15:33:24  <MasterSVK> but its strange that it happens for both mice
15:35:25  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18772 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Feature-ish: allow user customisable compression levels for the zlib compression
15:37:10  <PeterT> Rubidium: Does that mean that de-compression will take longer for more compressed save games?
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15:37:42  <Pikka> wuts
15:37:46  <Pikka> Singaporekid
15:37:59  <Singaporekid> you is a kf guest pass
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15:40:10  <Pikka> but kf
15:40:11  <Pikka> D:
15:40:15  <Pikka> anyways
15:40:18  <Pikka> I am in japons
15:40:21  <Pikka> I should be doing other things
15:40:25  <Pikka> mebe in march
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15:41:43  <Rubidium> like drinking sake while eating okonomiyaki :)
15:43:17  <Pikka> yakitori, actually
15:43:43  <Pikka> rode my bike home drunk at 2am on saturday morning, was a good genuine Kochi experience. :P
15:44:26  <Rubidium> oh yes, those are nice too; especially when you're eating with a few and order all the kinds they have :)
15:44:55  <Rubidium> already eating a 'typical' Japanese breakfast?
15:45:44  <Rubidium> i.e. a bowl of hot rice with a fresh (unboiled) egg cracked over it...
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15:47:23  <Singaporekid> Or convenience store onigiris
15:48:36  <Eddi|zuHause> convenience what?
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15:50:37  <Pikka> rubidium: yep, there were two of us encouraging each other to order one more :P
15:50:50  <Pikka> and I've done the rice and egg thing, for sure
15:51:20  <Pikka> but I've embraced my westernness and eat cereal mostly
15:52:32  <Pikka> eddi has no onigiri
15:53:21  <Rubidium> ooh... spam onigiri :)
15:53:32  <Rubidium> I think I'll prefer the spamburger though
15:55:54  <Pikka> looks like bedtimez
15:56:07  <Singaporekid> futontimes
15:56:13  <Pikka> yes
15:56:16  <Pikka> darn futons
15:56:27  <Rubidium> oyasuminasai :)
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15:56:37  <Singaporekid> Sleep under the kotatsu, it's warmtypes
15:56:41  <Pikka> don't even have real tatami in here, just a wooden floor...
15:56:55  <Pikka> not enough room to get the kotatsu out D:
15:56:59  <Pikka> anyway, g'night
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16:09:28  <khm> hello, can some one tell me how to build up relations with a town that won't let me build and has no room for trees?
16:10:29  <Eddi|zuHause> let the busses circle in the city
16:10:45  <khm> i can't build bus stations
16:10:56  <Eddi|zuHause> that's a problem...
16:11:10  <Eddi|zuHause> next time: build the bus stations first ;)
16:11:42  <frosch123> khm: bulldoze lots of trees and replant them :p
16:11:54  <khm> is there any other way? i have tried bribing them, but it didn't seem to help
16:12:24  <khm> wouldn't bulldozing trees piss them off?
16:12:48  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but when you can't piss them off more than they are already...
16:13:06  <khm> well, you have a point there
16:17:10  <Alberth> or do something else while you wait
16:18:40  <khm> removing the trees then putting them back seems to have done the trick, thank you
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16:22:50  <Terkhen> hello
16:22:55  <PeterT> hi Terkhen
16:31:41  <Terkhen> anyone using debian? I'd like to confirm that liblzo2-dev is also the name of the new required package before editing the wiki
16:31:48  <welshdragon> um
16:31:50  <welshdragon> right
16:31:57  <welshdragon> OSX has 2 install disks
16:32:10  <welshdragon> which one has Xcode?
16:32:35  <Rubidium> yup
16:34:20  <terjesc> welshdragon: Try one of them first, then the other. (=
16:34:36  <Eddi|zuHause> it's always the other one ;)
16:34:38  <Eoin> google it?
16:34:47  <Eddi|zuHause> dictated by murphy's law ;)
16:35:17  <PeterT> (-:
16:35:18  <__ln> welshdragon: the second one.
16:35:18  <Eoin> Second disk
16:35:20  <Eoin> ^^
16:35:30  <Terkhen> okay
16:35:30  <PeterT> welshdragon: The third disk.
16:35:49  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a conspiracy
16:36:09  <welshdragon> one is the OSX install disk
16:36:26  <welshdragon> the other is the Bundled Applications disk
16:36:28  <PeterT> so what is number two?
16:36:49  <welshdragon> look up
16:37:30  <terjesc> Bundled Applications sounds right.
16:37:40  <terjesc> afaik x code is bundled
16:37:43  <__ln> welshdragon: however, consider downloading a newer Xcode. (unless it's os x 10.6, in which case i'm not sure if there is a newer one).
16:37:43  <Eddi|zuHause> package seems to be called "lzo-devel" on opensuse
16:37:44  <terjesc> in a way
16:38:14  <Terkhen> done
16:38:14  <terjesc> I think I downloaded it from apple.
16:38:28  <welshdragon> ... i'll just do that
16:38:46  <terjesc> You have to register and stuff, though.
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16:40:44  <Eddi|zuHause> can i get git log to only show patches that i have committed?
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16:44:06  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: why does daylength_factor use a SDTG_CONDVAR instead of a SDT_CONDVAR?
16:44:47  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: so that date_type.h doesn't have to include settings_type.h
16:45:02  <PeterT> any reason for this error? >..\src\newgrf.cpp(50) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'table/strings.h': No such file or directory
16:45:04  <Eoin> oi
16:45:06  <Eoin> lol
16:45:17  <peter1138> you didn't build the language files
16:45:25  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: you forgot to compile the other projects (lang and strgen)
16:45:25  <Eoin> i didnt?
16:45:31  <Eoin> i pressed compile for all
16:45:32  <PeterT> Eoin: you didn't build the language files
16:45:37  <Eoin> it had 0 errors on language!
16:45:41  <SpComb> what does the "Min. profit" part of the performance rating mean?
16:45:48  <Eoin> 3>Build log was saved at "file://c:\ottdsrc\objs\langs\BuildLog.htm"
16:45:48  <Eoin> 3>langs - 0 error(s), 0 warning(s)
16:45:51  <SpComb> minimum yearly profit of all your vehicles?
16:45:57  <Rubidium> SpComb: tooltip?
16:45:57  <PeterT> are you sure it was "0 errors" and not "project skipped"?
16:46:02  <Eoin> ^^
16:46:06  <peter1138> minimum yearly profit of any vehicle
16:46:12  <PeterT> solve: 3(x+4/0)=10
16:46:17  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: the vehicle with the lowest yearly income
16:46:20  <SpComb> right
16:46:26  <terjesc> any wehicle older than a couple of years.
16:46:43  <SpComb> that's a tram with a yearly profit of -500kEUR :D
16:46:51  <terjesc> (=
16:46:55  <Eoin> peter1138: i did
16:47:20  <SpComb> well over half the trams make a yearly loss, perhaps a third make more loss than 100kEUR
16:47:27  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: typical cargodist prolbem ;)
16:47:32  <Eoin> strgen compiled, langs compiled
16:47:35  <Eoin> openttd failed badly
16:47:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Eoin: you're doing something wrong
16:48:05  <Eoin> im following wiki step by step
16:48:15  <Eddi|zuHause> Eoin: that's what they all say ;)
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16:48:17  <Rubidium> what version are you trying to compile?
16:48:22  <Eoin> head
16:48:30  <SpComb> but I officially finished off my game now \o/
16:48:32  <Eoin> which im assuming is the stable one
16:48:39  <SpComb> played it for 72h+ at 4x daylength, 1921 - 2002
16:49:06  <Eddi|zuHause> the latest i got with the dbset was 2009
16:49:37  <Eoin> oh wait
16:49:44  <Eoin> it looks like im using the latest build
16:50:14  <Eoin> how to i get the latest stable one?
16:50:43  <Eddi|zuHause> check out /tags/0.7.5
16:50:47  <Eddi|zuHause> instead of /trunk
16:51:22  <Eddi|zuHause> Eoin: but that doesn't explain your build problem ;)
16:51:36  <welshdragon> right. downloading xcode
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16:51:43  <welshdragon> going to take half an hour
16:51:47  <Eoin> Path 'tags/0.7.5' already exists
16:51:50  <Eoin> oh dear
16:53:27  <Eddi|zuHause> you didn't check out the entire repository, did you?
16:53:50  <Eoin> i made the folder
16:53:55  <Eoin> checkout, latest
16:53:56  <Eoin> done
16:55:02  <Rubidium> trunk @ HEAD complete clean checkout compiles fine in MSVC2008
16:55:54  <Eoin> im trying to compile your latest revision
16:56:01  <PeterT> <Eddi|zuHause> you didn't check out the entire repository, did you? <-- I did that when I forgot to write "trunk" after ""
16:56:03  <Eoin> 18772
16:56:11  <Eoin> i did put /trunk
16:56:29  <Eoin> svn://
16:56:50  <Eddi|zuHause>
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16:57:41  <Terkhen> I have also compiled r18772 in MSVC2008 without no problems
16:57:45  <Eoin> :(
16:57:47  <Terkhen> without problems*
16:58:00  <Eoin> i dont get why im getting problems
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16:58:19  <Eoin> hold on
16:58:26  <Eoin> langs config is debug
16:58:29  <Eoin> strgen debug
16:58:32  <Eoin> version debug
16:58:34  <PeterT> that's good
16:58:36  <Eoin> openttd release.
16:58:40  <Terkhen> that's correct
16:58:41  <PeterT> openttd release, right?
16:58:42  <PeterT> good
16:58:43  <Eoin> ye
16:58:49  <Eoin> so thats right? damn
16:59:41  <Eoin> build order is strgen, langs, version, openttd
17:01:56  <Eoin> anyone got any ideas?
17:02:11  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: i just scanned through an old daylength patch, and it had daily and weekly autosave, those would be handy on longer daylengths...
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17:02:18  <Eoin>  Cannot open include file: 'squirrel.h'
17:02:23  <Eoin> Cannot open include file: 'table/strings.h'
17:02:35  <Eoin> something wrong with my includes?
17:02:44  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: yes, I had a look at that yesterday, but there's no completely clean way to implement it
17:03:01  <Terkhen> Eoin: you must have missed something at the wiki
17:03:03  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: but I guess it would be better to even just hack it in
17:03:12  <Eoin> ive double checked terkhen
17:03:46  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: afair it just meant moving the autosave check within date_cmd.cpp(?) and adding some items to the list
17:03:55  <Eoin> i think ive solved it
17:04:01  <Rubidium> first of all, make sure you haven't made local modification
17:04:02  <Eoin> i had SDK above includes on the list
17:04:20  <Eoin> nah didnt fix it
17:04:23  <Rubidium> and changing MSVC configuration might do local changes
17:04:45  <Eoin> i havent modified anything
17:04:59  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: only problem i remember is that it changed the default from monthly to daily
17:05:12  <Rubidium> cause it looks like you trashed your 'AdditionalIncludeDirectories'
17:05:12  <Eddi|zuHause> which might be too much...
17:06:16  <Eoin> C:\Users\Eoin\Documents\OpenTTD essentials\shared\include
17:06:23  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: and broke any stored settings...
17:06:30  <Eoin> its straight from the .zip
17:06:43  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: but that may be solved now by using named settings ("quaterly") etc.
17:06:51  <Rubidium> not that one
17:07:05  <Rubidium> as I said... make SURE that there are no local modifications to the project files
17:07:13  <Eoin> ill reload the project
17:07:52  <Eoin> ooh
17:07:56  <Eddi|zuHause> Eoin: svn should be able to tell you about modifications
17:07:58  <Eoin> projects has a red !
17:08:06  <Eoin> thus i must of edited it without knowing
17:08:18  <Eddi|zuHause> what's a "must of"?
17:08:24  <Eoin> must have
17:08:34  <Eddi|zuHause> then why don't you say that?
17:08:39  <Eoin> same difference :P
17:08:43  <Eddi|zuHause> after all, we're all speaking a foreign language.
17:09:32  <PeterT> Eoin: when you add the include directories or change the configuration to release, that changes it
17:09:36  <PeterT> you shouldn't worry about that
17:09:39  <Eoin> i reverted the projects
17:09:40  <Eoin> anyway
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17:09:46  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: got a link to the .patch?
17:10:24  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: i presume in the old threads...
17:10:44  <Eoin> i should worry, PeterT
17:10:50  <Eoin> as it is now compiling with no errors
17:10:53  <SpComb> it was in the middle of some random thread where I found it yesterday
17:10:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i only have my modified stuff lying around... not sure if that's helpful
17:11:05  <Eoin> i think ive fixed it
17:11:53  <Eoin> now that ive fixed that
17:11:55  <Eddi|zuHause>
17:11:58  <Eoin> i need to figure out how to "patch"
17:12:07  <Eoin> using tortoiseSVN
17:12:07  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure about what i "mod"ed
17:12:23  <Eddi|zuHause> Eoin: right click on the "trunk" directory, and chose "apply patch"
17:12:39  <Eddi|zuHause> Eoin: won't work with hg or git patches
17:12:46  <Eoin> "trunk" directory
17:12:58  <Eddi|zuHause> Eoin: the base of your checkout
17:13:03  <Eoin> the folder with projects, src, os etc/
17:13:05  <Eoin> ?*
17:13:08  <Eddi|zuHause> Eoin: the one that contains the "src" directory
17:13:13  <Eoin> k
17:13:17  <Eoin> ive called that ottdsrc
17:13:18  <Eoin> lol
17:13:29  <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't matter
17:13:41  <Eoin> oh no
17:13:43  <Eoin> ONE error
17:13:49  <Eoin> ========== Build: 2 succeeded, 1 failed, 1 up-to-date, 0 skipped ==========
17:13:57  <Eoin> 3>..\src\crashlog.cpp(138) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'lzo/lzo1x.h': No such file or directory
17:14:02  <Eoin> thats the only error now
17:14:10  <Eddi|zuHause> Eoin: you didn't download the new
17:14:12  <PeterT> update openttd useful
17:14:15  <Eoin> i did
17:14:19  <Eddi|zuHause> changed today
17:14:19  <Eoin> i downloaded it last week
17:14:21  <Eoin> oh
17:14:22  <Eoin> ffs :(
17:14:31  <PeterT>
17:14:34  <Eddi|zuHause> read the damn commit messages ;)
17:14:38  <Eoin> just my luck lol
17:14:41  <glx> thanks to remind me to update it :)
17:15:28  <welshdragon> 10 minutes for xcode
17:19:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't learn to handle git :(
17:19:20  <welshdragon> hmm, macports seems to have frozn :(
17:19:39  <Eddi|zuHause> how do i get a diff between my local branch and origin/master?
17:19:51  <PeterT> git help git
17:20:08  <Eoin>
17:20:41  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: that doesn't help me at all...
17:20:57  <Eoin> ^^ Now it does that
17:20:58  <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause: What OS are you on?
17:21:00  <Eoin> with the new includes
17:21:06  <Eddi|zuHause> linux
17:21:12  <PeterT> Eoin: it was working, you stopped it
17:21:18  <PeterT> "#
17:21:18  <PeterT> #
17:21:18  <PeterT> The build has been canceled at the user's request"
17:21:27  <Eoin> No
17:21:33  <Eoin> it said Build failed
17:21:35  <Eoin> so i cancelled it
17:21:50  <PeterT> No, it didn't
17:21:53  <PeterT> read the end
17:21:56  <PeterT> it looks fine
17:21:56  <Eoin> yes it did
17:21:57  <Eoin> i saw it
17:22:00  <SpComb> Eoin:  ?
17:22:08  <Eoin> SpComb?
17:22:08  <SpComb> ooer
17:22:10  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: ^
17:22:13  <welshdragon> Eoin:  looks fine to me
17:22:15  <Eoin> ah
17:22:21  <Eoin> 3>   Creating library ..\objs\Win32\Release\openttd.lib and object ..\objs\Win32\Release\openttd.exp
17:22:21  <Eoin> 3>Generating code
17:22:23  <Eoin> its stuck on that
17:22:29  <Eoin> then it said Build Failed at the bottom
17:22:35  <Eoin> its stuck on that again
17:22:37  <Terkhen> it is not stuck, MSVC is just slow
17:22:39  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: pretty much the same as the earlier one, but it shouldn't affect the default or old values for the setting
17:22:45  <welshdragon> Eoin: leave it
17:22:46  <Rubidium> generating code takes a few minutes with release builds...
17:22:46  <Eoin> hmm, ill leave it this time then
17:22:48  <Terkhen> the Generating code step takes ages
17:22:53  <Eoin> i onyl cancelled it cause it said Build Failed
17:23:15  <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause: "git diff" I think
17:23:16  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: yeah, but now they're not ordered chronologically?
17:23:27  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: sure, but which options?
17:23:41  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: can't always have everything
17:24:21  <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause: "git diff [--options] [--] [<path>…] "
17:24:31  <PeterT> that's what "git help diff" says on my page
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17:25:03  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: i can read that myself, but it does still not answer my question
17:25:22  <Eoin> oo err
17:25:27  <Eoin> this does take a while in MSVC
17:25:37  <Eddi|zuHause> is there a git equivalent of "hg view"?
17:25:37  <Eoin> i say that, build succeeded
17:25:38  <Eoin> rofl
17:25:56  <SpComb> fonsinchen: perhaps you should update cargodist to a rev beyond r18764 to see if that resolves the tick_counter issues
17:26:08  <Eoin> so where do i find this completed build
17:26:45  <Eoin> "bin" ?
17:27:09  <PeterT> no
17:27:18  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: it would be possible to do that, but then you'd have to translate the values for the GUI from the values for the saveload data, or have a conditional saveload item
17:27:18  <PeterT>  /objs/win32/release
17:27:34  <Eoin> that has no folders
17:27:39  <fonsinchen> yes, I should ....
17:27:39  <Eoin> only loys of .cod, .obj
17:27:54  <Eoin> and openttd.exe :
17:28:11  <Eoin> which dosent openn
17:28:14  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: afair autosave interval is not saved
17:28:22  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: in the .cfg
17:28:28  <PeterT> Eoin: You need to make a bundl
17:28:35  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: in the cfg it has textual names now
17:28:37  <PeterT> see
17:28:44  <Eoin> so i need MSYS
17:28:59  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: so unless you update from a very old cfg, it should be fine
17:29:19  <SpComb> hmm, perhaps it would just be enough to assume the config stores the textual index
17:29:20  <PeterT> Eoin: You need both to make a good MSVC bundle
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17:31:36  <PeterT> read this, Eoin:
17:31:42  <PeterT> I made that section of the guide
17:31:50  <PeterT> and the one about Setting up subversion
17:32:04  <PeterT> and I fixed up the part about compiling "openttd_vs90.sln"
17:32:18  <PeterT> and differentiated win32 and win64
17:35:42  <welshdragon> bugger
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17:36:00  <welshdragon> the version of xcode i downloaded is for 10.6
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17:39:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm getting a headache from git...
17:40:47  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: <-- thusly then, it fixes the default value back to one month as well
17:40:53  <Eoin> PeterT
17:40:57  <Eoin> i dont get your SVN bit
17:40:58  <PeterT> ?
17:41:01  <Eoin> step 2
17:41:09  <PeterT> link?
17:41:20  <Eoin> oh wait
17:41:21  <Eoin> yes i do
17:41:23  <Eoin> nv,
17:41:26  <Terkhen> soon I'll have to learn git to divide the improved acceleration for road vehicles patch in branches...
17:41:29  <PeterT> what about it?
17:41:33  <Eoin> i get it now
17:41:38  <PeterT> it's pretty forthrigh
17:41:43  <PeterT> ok, good Eoin!
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17:43:11  <welshdragon> does anybody know where i can get xcode for 10.5 (Leopard)
17:43:27  <PeterT> google =
17:43:28  <SpComb> note: setting autosave to daily and fastforwarding with normal daylength makes openttd unhappy
17:43:33  <welshdragon> the developer site has it for 10.6 only
17:44:48  <PeterT> welshdragon:
17:44:53  <welshdragon> PeterT: that links to the version i just downloaded
17:44:54  <PeterT> do you have a torrent client?
17:45:02  <welshdragon> indeedy
17:45:21  <PeterT> this is the wrong version?
17:45:30  <welshdragon> yes
17:45:40  <welshdragon> it's for 10.6 only
17:46:12  <welshdragon> *sigh*
17:46:21  <welshdragon> even that version doesn't work on it PeterT
17:46:24  <Eoin> kefile.msvc bundle PLATFORM=WIN32
17:46:24  <Eoin> [BUNDLE] Constructing bundle
17:46:24  <Eoin> make: *** [bundle] Error 127
17:46:28  <Eoin> oeterrrr
17:46:30  <Eoin> peterrr
17:46:37  <PeterT> Eon: THAT'S OK!
17:46:51  <Eoin> it is?
17:46:59  <PeterT> Eoin: refer to:
17:47:43  <__ln> welshdragon: all the old versions are available at apple's site.
17:48:05  <welshdragon> __ln: i can't find them
17:48:11  <Eoin> where does it output peter
17:48:45  <Eoin> C:\ottdsrc\bin   ?
17:49:03  <__ln> welshdragon: they are cleverly hidden, but are there.  go to first and log in.
17:49:12  <PeterT> Eoin: C:\ottdsrc\bundle
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17:49:19  <Eoin> ah
17:49:20  <Eoin> nice
17:49:28  * Eoin haz won!
17:49:59  <Eoin> now, to do it all again with a patch
17:50:10  <__ln> welshdragon: after that, it's pretty trivial.
17:50:23  <welshdragon> again
17:50:28  <welshdragon> i only see 3.1.1
17:50:42  <welshdragon> OH
17:50:46  <welshdragon> i see it now
17:50:56  <welshdragon> xcode 3.0
17:51:29  <welshdragon> 3 hours dowmload
17:51:36  <welshdragon> o.o
17:51:39  <__ln> welshdragon: no, you want 3.1.4.
17:52:04  <Eoin> he has Leopard
17:52:09  <Eoin> or summin
17:52:12  <__ln> i know, i can read.
17:52:20  <Eoin> oh, nvm then :P
17:52:36  <welshdragon> got iti
17:52:37  <__ln> and by a strange coincidence, 3.1.4 is the latest Xcode that runs on Leopard.
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17:53:44  <Roelmb> Hi guys can anyone help me out with windows 7 and mingw
17:54:11  <welshdragon> __ln: ty
17:54:20  <welshdragon> it's going to take 3 hours
17:54:26  * Alberth offers a Linux DVD to Roelmb
17:54:27  <welshdragon> -_-
17:54:33  <Roelmb> XD
17:54:37  <Eoin> Roelmb: i might be able to
17:54:46  <Eoin> as i just used mingw on windows 7 for the first time :D
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17:55:17  <Roelmb> The thing is it locks the files so mingw can't write the data in it so all the hunk's fail
17:55:33  <Eoin> hmm, odd
17:55:38  <Eoin> it didnt do anything like that for me
17:55:44  <Eoin> you on admin account?
17:55:44  <Roelmb> So in very short therms the patch totally fails
17:55:48  <Roelmb> yes i am
17:55:54  <Alberth> you actually get write protect errors, or just 'hunk failed'?
17:56:02  <Roelmb> hunk failed
17:56:24  <Alberth> another cause can be that the patch file format is not recognized
17:56:29  <Roelmb> but when i go look in the map where the files that should be patched stand the files have a lock on them
17:56:40  <PeterT> <Eoin> it didnt do anything like that for me <-- Obviously you aren't applying the same patch
17:56:56  <Eoin> he didnt say he was patching to start with :D
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17:57:21  <Eoin> now, petert, how do i go about compiling is+cd
17:57:27  <Alberth> Roelmb: so eg opening with an editor and changing also fails?
17:57:46  <PeterT> <Eoin> he didnt say he was patching to start with :D <-- FAILED hunks == what happens during patching
17:57:56  <Alberth> if yes, you better convince the OS to allow modification of the files :)
17:57:57  <Roelmb> no that not when i open it whit notepad++ and change it goes fine but not with migw
17:58:09  <Eoin> you know ive never patched before, PeterT :D
17:58:16  <PeterT> Eoin: It requires a bit of work, ok?
17:58:19  <Eoin> oh
17:58:21  <Eoin> work sounds bad
17:58:28  <Eoin> just send me yours :(
17:58:35  <Roelmb> like with me i could do everything by hand
17:59:07  <PeterT> Eoin: Join #cdis
17:59:17  <Alberth> what program do you use for patching Roelmb
17:59:28  <PeterT> Eoin: Sorry, I mean #cdis2
17:59:36  <Roelmb> mingw32
17:59:58  <Terkhen> either gprof is kidding with me or I am doing something wrong... my unoptimized code filled with virtual functions can't be faster than trunk
18:00:05  <Eoin> err
18:00:06  * Terkhen goes to recheck everything
18:01:19  <Alberth> Roelmb: that is not single program file, is it?  people usually use 'tortoisesvn' or 'patch'.
18:01:38  <Terkhen> I suppose he refers to the version of patch included in mingw32
18:01:52  <Roelmb> i use tortoisesvn and tortoise git but petert said i should use mingw
18:02:31  <Alberth> Terkhen: relative execution speed is more reliable probably
18:02:59  <Terkhen> hmmm... what do you mean?
18:03:28  <Alberth> function f takes x, function g takes 2*x -> g takes twice as much time
18:04:59  <Terkhen> yes, that's how I'm doing it... my unoptimized version takes 80% of trunk time, in past tests it took 120% so I probably messed up somewhere
18:05:12  <Alberth> Roelmb: never used mingw, what command do you enter to patch the source?
18:05:25  <PeterT> patch -p0 -i <filename.diff>
18:06:43  <Terkhen> I always have EOL problems while patching on windows, I don't remember if the same problem is present at mingw
18:08:06  <SpComb> hmm... stolen trees won't work with alpine climate either?
18:08:15  <Rubidium> Terkhen: gprof isn't very reliable; ever N amount of time it looks at what function it is, so for relatively short functions large variations are to be expected
18:08:40  <Alberth> Roelmb:  what are the path names in the patch file? do they start with "a/" and b/", as for example "--- a/src/lang/english.txt" ?
18:09:12  <Roelmb> nope without a just /scr/lang/english.txt
18:09:28  <Alberth> /src ?   (with a leading /  ?)
18:10:00  <Alberth> Terkhen: how to check for EOL problems?
18:10:13  <Terkhen> I'm using the average time of 100 executions (100 ticks each) for TrainLocoHandler, which is a large function
18:10:20  <glx> just use gnuwin32 patch
18:10:38  <glx> msys patch understands only LF
18:10:58  <glx> while gnuwin32 patch understands LF and CRLF
18:11:21  <Alberth> Roelmb: what glx says :)
18:11:27  <Terkhen> Alberth: convert the patch using unix2dos
18:12:01  <Alberth> Roelmb: or convert the patch as suggested by Terkhen, and try again.
18:12:39  <Terkhen> glx: some subversion create diffs with mixed format (LF at the headers, CRLF at the code), and gnuwin32 patch crashes with them
18:12:54  * Alberth cannot understand that people try development at a machine not intended to development
18:13:17  <Terkhen> at least in windows 7 and vista
18:14:12  <Alberth> oh, so nice. Just fighting the OS is not enough, let's add fighting the tools as well :p
18:14:58  <glx> hmm indeed I use patch-2.5.9-1-msys-1.0.11-bin.tar.lzma
18:15:07  <glx> from mingw
18:15:12  <Rubidium> Alberth: but it is a *win*, so it must be good... otherwise it would be called faildos and gnufail32 patch
18:15:29  <Roelmb> now i'm getting crazy
18:16:06  <Alberth> the offer still stands :)
18:16:16  <Roelmb> offer?
18:16:25  <Roelmb> a the DVD
18:16:34  <Roelmb> i'll just download it from the internet
18:19:06  <SpComb> hmm... I have German Town Names loaded, but the town names are still as per defaults
18:20:28  <SpComb> ah, you have to change it in the game settings
18:21:19  <Terkhen> I will never go back to developing OpenTTD in windows... providing binaries for my patches is already bad enough, but having to wait for 30s or more to recompile changes in a single file is a nightmare
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18:25:49  <Eddi|zuHause> <Terkhen> soon I'll have to learn git to divide the improved acceleration for road vehicles patch in branches... <- please, learn hg instead...
18:26:38  <glx> yes hg is better :)
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18:27:33  <Terkhen> I'll follow your advice: I just need a version control system that does branching, merging and not gives me many headaches
18:28:23  <Eddi|zuHause> git has given me way more headaches that hg yet ;)
18:30:12  <Terkhen> I had enough in the subject were I learnt about subversion: we were only allowed to use tortoisesvn :S (the teacher was either crazy, really hated us or probably both)
18:31:06  <Eddi|zuHause> you had a course about svn?
18:31:33  <Eddi|zuHause> we only had a course where they said "here's the CVS login, go ahead"
18:32:26  <Terkhen> software engineering, he only mentioned that we had to use tortoisesvn in our project and gave us an outdated tutorial
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18:35:01  <SpComb> hmm, PBI has a "1 = Food processing plants and breweries produce food in temperate, instead of goods" parameter
18:35:04  <SpComb> what's that used for?
18:35:24  <frosch123> if you have houses that accept food
18:35:35  <SpComb> what townsets do?
18:35:54  <PeterT> SpComb: Can you give me the number for your server?
18:36:10  <frosch123> no idea, maybe ttrs
18:37:59  <SpComb> PeterT: it's offline
18:38:06  <PeterT> too bad :-(
18:38:22  <SpComb> frosch123: doens't seem so - mainly I was wondering if it might have been related to alpine
18:38:36  <SpComb> I'd really love the play alpine, but it's a bit iffy with no food
18:38:58  <Eddi|zuHause> so.. who's excited about scrubs?
18:39:07  <peter1138> TaI supports food, iirc
18:39:08  <frosch123> SpComb: then use canset or similiar sets
18:39:13  <frosch123> alpine is pointless
18:39:14  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: scrubs?
18:39:40  <frosch123> it conflicts more with up-to-date grfs than it adds features
18:39:46  <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: just a question, whether that new series remake is worth it
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18:40:58  <peter1138> bah, what engines to choose once PJ1K has run out? :()
18:41:20  <frosch123> cheat the yeap :p
18:41:47  <SpComb> frosch123: snowy stuff and varying seasons is nice
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18:42:19  <frosch123> but there are various other sets out there which provide that
18:42:19  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: i can tell you what i changed in alpine to make it useful
18:42:27  <andythenorth> peter1138: NARS 2
18:42:35  <peter1138> not loaded
18:42:39  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: it would be interesting to hear, I forgot what it was that you modified when you mentioned it earlier
18:42:39  <andythenorth> the Americans took over UK freight anyway
18:45:40  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r18773 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
18:45:40  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:40  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: afrikaans - 6 changes by burgerd
18:45:40  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
18:45:40  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: danish - 3 changes by mgarde
18:45:42  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 86 changes by Hirundo
18:45:42  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by glx
18:46:20  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: i replaced this line to disable the industries: " 1060 * 6        07 9A 01  00 00"
18:48:06  <Eddi|zuHause> and with "awk /'\t 00 07'/ alpine.nfo" you get all houses, add properties like "0F FE" [=food -2] to the houses that you deem appropriate
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18:48:31  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a list of the houses in the newgrf specs
18:49:22  <SpComb> disable the temperate industries that alpinew.grf introduces?
18:49:27  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
18:49:35  <SpComb> I'll be using the TTRS houses
18:49:45  <Eddi|zuHause> allows you to load another industry set
18:50:13  <SpComb> although... TTRS3 readme sez: "Changes in v3.02:
18:50:17  <SpComb> -Added food acceptance to houses A..E
18:50:31  <Eddi|zuHause> you should be able to add TTRS houses anyway
18:50:43  <Eddi|zuHause> houses don't conflict as much as industries
18:50:52  <SpComb> but as far as I can tell, TTRS houses don't accept food?
18:50:54  <Eddi|zuHause> but i dislike TTRS
18:51:34  <Eddi|zuHause> houses probably won't accept food if food is disabled by the industry set
18:51:45  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if that's how it works
18:51:56  <SpComb> hmm yes, they do once I tell PBI to produce food
18:53:21  <SpComb> but only on temperate, it seems
18:53:49  <PeterT> SpComb: we have and CDIS server up
18:54:27  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: so you mainly use the alpine grf just for the temperate terrain in arctic?
18:54:45  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: yes, and the snow-aware houses
18:55:08  <Eddi|zuHause> but now the houses accept food and i can use PBI
18:55:22  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: so I presume TTRS already defines food acceptance for its buildings, it just doesn't do that in arctic...
18:55:30  <Eddi|zuHause> unfortunately, the brick chain is not compatible with arctic :(
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18:56:53  <Terkhen> hmmm... I think of my small optimizations finally paid off :)
18:57:01  * Terkhen starts rechecking everything
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19:01:19  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: am i seeing this right that you didn't bump SAVEGAME_VERSION?
19:01:48  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: no, because this is mainly for use with cargodist...
19:01:57  <SpComb> cargodist "bumps" the saveload version to 250
19:03:05  <Eddi|zuHause> so cargodist only expects 4 more version bumps??
19:03:24  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: it just doesn't do version bumps
19:03:44  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... that's not good for long term "testing"...
19:03:48  *** Splex [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:04:06  <Rubidium> but good for getting the brokeness out of savegames
19:04:34  <Eddi|zuHause> how am i going to play a game for half a year without updating?
19:05:04  <Rubidium> without cargodist
19:05:14  <Eddi|zuHause> how am i going to play a game for half a year without cargodist?
19:05:24  <Rubidium> without updating
19:05:42  <Eddi|zuHause> what if the bucket has a hole?
19:06:04  <Rubidium> then reroute the flow from the hole to the top of the bucket so it refills itself
19:06:46  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: that is a missing feature of all big patches, also IS
19:07:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't imagine it being such a huge problem
19:07:12  <Eddi|zuHause> the miniin managed it fine...
19:08:45  <Rubidium> only after I showed him how to do it, and even then it was most of the time me or glx that did it...
19:09:23  <SpComb> bah, can't make sense out of this NFO :P
19:09:36  <SpComb> I presume it would be perfectly possible to hack TTRS to accept food in alpine, but...
19:10:28  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: like i said, the acceptance of TTRS is dependent on an industry set providing food
19:10:40  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: but alpine disables food
19:10:49  <SpComb> hmm... but if you have alpine, and also PBI?
19:11:13  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: because i added that line that skips all industry related stuff from alpine
19:13:11  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: i didn't test TTRS, because i hate it
19:13:26  <Eddi|zuHause> houses just aren't supposed to be green...
19:13:50  <SpComb> heh
19:14:02  <Alberth> finally an environmentally friendly house :p
19:14:09  <SpComb> what's the original '07 88 04 GG 6D 62 08 00 01' check for? Some other GRF?
19:14:13  <Muxy> Hello tycooners, about new widget system, is there some doc around in the wiki or somewhere else ?
19:14:24  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: that's the "newcargo[w].grf"
19:14:38  <Alberth> somewhere else, let me find it again
19:15:00  <PeterT> Windows 9x failed :-(
19:15:14  * fjb knows a lot of green houses.
19:15:14  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: that check only skips the next line (factory?)
19:15:25  <Eddi|zuHause> my line skips to the end of the file
19:15:27  <Alberth> Muxy:
19:15:46  <Muxy> thxs Alberth, running on it...
19:15:46  <Alberth> there is a pdf there
19:16:00  <Muxy> is there any wizzard ? hehehe
19:16:14  <Alberth> also, there is doxygen documentation, which is more up to date
19:16:25  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: well, once I 'fix' that sprite and load PBI, the TTRS towns accept food
19:16:40  <Alberth> Muxy: sure, your wizard is sitting between the chair and the keyboard
19:16:50  <Muxy> yeap but its how to declare the stuff, not sure that doxy will tell me
19:16:52  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: that's exactly what i said it would do ;)
19:17:03  <SpComb> indeed, I just didn't believe you
19:17:13  * Muxy has some kind of magic then
19:17:19  <SpComb> thought it might have been climate-dependant, but that doesn't make any sense - disabling food on arctic :P
19:17:32  <SpComb> nice to see that they still accept both food and goods
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19:19:04  <Muxy> hum, beautifull PDF, nice work Alberth.
19:19:21  <Alberth> LaTeX did most of the work :)
19:20:17  <SpComb> next issue: the terragen fails to place any towns above the snowline...
19:21:13  <SpComb> but that's just a question of Terrain Type and Variety distribution
19:21:42  <SpComb> introudction any variety makes the mountains way too small
19:22:31  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: it fails to place towns on non-flat tiles
19:22:40  <Eddi|zuHause> nothing to do with snow line...
19:22:49  <SpComb> Mountanious + Low seems to work ok
19:23:11  <Eddi|zuHause> you can also reduce the roughness
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19:24:27  <SpComb> a delicate balance - then the terrain becomes too boring to build on :(
19:24:28  <Eddi|zuHause> just the guy i wanted to "lynch" [is that a word?]...
19:25:28  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: on high roughness i rarely could place a station at all...
19:25:37  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe that got better with the variety distribution
19:25:40  <peter1138> if you mean gang up on and beat in retaliation, yes
19:25:57  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: that sounds like what i had in mind ;)
19:26:14  <PeterT> has anyone managed to create MSVC binaires with the correct GIT version numbers?
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19:26:43  <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: so, what has made you decide to shit on savegame compatibility?
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19:38:16  <PeterT> during the time that MSVC says "Generating code", what does it d?
19:38:18  <PeterT> *do?
19:38:23  <PeterT> what kind of code?
19:38:34  <fonsinchen> Eddi|zuHause: It's very complicated to maintain savegame compatibility in patches.
19:38:38  <peter1138> it generates code
19:38:48  <peter1138> machine code
19:38:58  <peter1138> you don't half ask the stupidest questions
19:39:01  <PeterT> the .exe?
19:39:36  <welshdragon> peter1138: that's why he got 'biggest spammer'
19:39:49  <fonsinchen> There's also different dimensions of savegame compatibility.
19:39:55  <SpComb> hmm... stolen trees don't really work on alpine
19:40:13  <PeterT> I was hoping for a more in-depth answer
19:40:39  <PeterT> not "doh, it generates code, ur a spamma!"
19:40:46  <fonsinchen> A given version of cargodist is compatible to the trunk version it belongs to and all previous trunk version. It's not compatible to cargodist versions which belong to a trunk version with lower savegame version.
19:40:52  <SpComb>
19:41:08  <welshdragon> SpComb: ololol
19:41:13  <SpComb> fail :(
19:41:39  <peter1138> the trees have shaken their branches
19:41:41  <sawtooth> snow-proof trees
19:42:09  <SpComb>
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19:42:46  <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: yes, but what made you decide against the "miniin" system, that both maintained trunk compatibility and (limited, but useful) patch compatibility
19:43:03  <__ln> does someone know what happens if one misses a connecting flight due to lengthy passport control / other stuff in the USA?
19:43:59  <andythenorth> you get to see more of an airport?
19:44:25  <andythenorth> if it's continental, your connecting flight was probably (a) overbooked and (b) late anyway
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19:44:34  <Rubidium> depending on how you got the ticket, you're screwed or the company where you bought the ticket has to pay because they gave you tickets with a too short connection time
19:44:44  <fonsinchen> Eddi|zuHause: the additional work required
19:44:46  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln: i'm sure you get to meet many people saying "why should _I_ care?"
19:45:28  <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: that's the thing, i don't believe there's much work beyond the initial setup
19:45:31  <Rubidium> having said that... why would anyone want to go to the USA now?
19:45:40  <__ln> let's assume the whole trip is on one ticket, sold by one company.
19:46:23  <Rubidium> read the tiny letters of the agreement; it should be covered there, if not... assume the worst
19:47:02  <fonsinchen> Eddi|zuHause: I'd have to write conversion methods for my own old versions in addition to those for the latest trunk version. It'd get messy.
19:48:21  <__ln> welll... the connection is only 1d 16h by greyhound.
19:49:06  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln: go by train. it'll be 7 times the time for only twice the price as plane...
19:49:31  <Eddi|zuHause> and you might get to meet summer glau ;)
19:49:53  <__ln> right, except i don't believe there are trains in the US and A
19:49:59  <Rubidium> just hope she doesn't terminate you
19:50:01  <Eddi|zuHause> (or maybe i just watched too much The Big Bang Theory ;))
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19:51:27  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: so is distributing a modified alpinew.grf a big no-no?
19:51:52  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: it's complicated...
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19:51:56  <Rubidium> grfdiff/grfmerge ?
19:52:12  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: technically, the license doesn't allow modifying
19:52:16  <SpComb> indeed
19:52:26  <Rubidium> but German law does for compatability reasons, right?
19:52:32  <SpComb> (or rather, distributing a modified version)
19:52:35  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: but german copyright allowes distributing modifications "for providing compatibility"
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19:53:42  <Hirundo> Do towns ever build tunnels?
19:53:47  <Eddi|zuHause> Hirundo: no
19:54:06  <Eddi|zuHause> Hirundo: but they expand through tunnels if you build them
19:54:35  <Hirundo> Ok, thanks for the info
19:54:57  <Ammler> MB would allow you, if you ask...
19:55:32  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: but i wouldn't distribute my "hack" like this, the proper way would be adding a parameter
19:55:34  <__ln> seriously, wtf, company A sells flights with plane change at Dallas with as little as 1h 15m of time between flights. and the "baggage acceptance cutoff time" is 40 minutes.
19:55:42  <SpComb> I guess it's best to change the GRF ID, name and descr?
19:55:45  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: true
19:55:54  <SpComb> that should be simple
19:56:29  <__ln> so one has 35 minutes to get out of the plane, get through the passport/immigration control, fetch the baggage, and re-checkin them.
19:57:48  <Rubidium> there's one thing you can be fairly sure of, 1h 15 isn't enough time to get your checked bags through customs
19:59:05  <PeterT> Rubidium: Thanks for telling me about adding it to global PATH
19:59:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess it's different when you switch between international flights or from international to national flights
19:59:11  <PeterT> the git for MSVC
19:59:16  <PeterT> works perfectly
19:59:25  <Eddi|zuHause> because we didn't even get to see our baggage when we switched planes in iceland
19:59:34  <Eddi|zuHause> back in 2000, when flying was "easy"
19:59:35  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: iceland != USA
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20:00:11  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: exactly, there it was two international flights, so you never left the international part of the airport
20:00:54  *** PeterT [] has quit [Quit: Bye, be back soon]
20:01:00  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: in Dulles it took longer for the bags to finally show up than to get through immigration, and the queues for immigration were *long*
20:01:07  <__ln> Eddi|zuHause: but as far as i understand, you'd need to go through customs (with your baggage) at the first place you arrive at.
20:01:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i think we flew frankfurt->iceland->JFK and baltimore->iceland->frankfurt
20:01:55  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: and for USA international airport -> whatever-in-the-US == national flight
20:01:59  <Eddi|zuHause> and we went new york->philadelphia by train and philadelphia->washington by bus
20:02:28  *** Chrill [] has joined #openttd
20:02:31  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: that's why i said, it's going to be different
20:03:35  <SpComb>
20:03:56  <Eddi|zuHause> back in 2000, immigration was filling out a form that said you aren't going to murder the president, and the guy asking whether you're here for business or as tourist...
20:04:17  <__ln> company A would just have damn cheap flights, ~540EUR helsinki - california
20:04:46  <SpComb> although... now the dbsetxl gets disabled
20:05:44  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, it checks the grfid
20:06:00  <SpComb> meh, so not a good idea changing the grfid after all
20:08:15  <Ammler> what about creating a dummy industry with the id of the cargoset?
20:08:26  <Ammler> dummy newgrf*
20:08:59  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: doesn't do the same thing
20:09:21  <Ammler> ah, you skip rest
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20:17:42  <SpComb> on to the next topic, how safe is it to raise the values of MAX_LENGTH_VEHICLE_NAME_BYTES/PIXELS
20:17:58  <SpComb> it's currently 13b/150px, which isn't very much
20:18:23  <SpComb> er, 31b
20:18:40  <SpComb> (but it's mainly the 150px that limits name lengths)
20:18:59  <peter1138> try it ;)
20:21:36  <SpComb> 250px just and just fits into the default vehicle window width
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20:33:23  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r18774 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Change: Consider callback 19 only broken after subcargos 0 to 255 have been used, instead of stopping at 15.
20:35:14  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123 is reading the forum, i see ;)
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20:38:46  <frosch123> yeah, it is a lucky forum. it has petert to apply&compile patches, and eddi to report subversion messages :p
20:39:12  <Eddi|zuHause> :)
20:39:16  <PeterT> hehe
20:39:41  <welshdragon> right
20:39:58  <welshdragon> i have xcode
20:40:05  <PeterT> wow, long download, eh?
20:40:12  <welshdragon> PeterT: what was i compiling?
20:40:19  <PeterT> cargodist + IS?
20:40:22  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: it's not my fault that you are too slow to submit forum posts ;)
20:40:32  <welshdragon> i think it was
20:40:49  <welshdragon> or it was the patch that SpComb made
20:41:20  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i was wondering how to provoke mb to answer "ottd should disable broken grfs"
20:41:36  <frosch123> (which would hit dbset :p)
20:41:37  <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: that's the daylength patch, that doesn't need merging ;)
20:42:02  <welshdragon> ah
20:42:05  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: ah. so by "some grfs" you mean "the dbset"? ;=)
20:42:08  <welshdragon> so only a binary making?
20:42:16  <welshdragon> shuweet
20:42:38  <frosch123> it is one of them, yes :)
20:43:08  <Eddi|zuHause> so, how does The Patch handle it?
20:43:40  <frosch123> did not look, likely similiar
20:44:33  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i learned a new word: "disappearify"
20:44:37  <frosch123> i guess it is quite likely that dbset was some testcase for the it, so it was written accordingly :p
20:45:17  <PeterT> whatever happened to the binaries made here?
20:45:52  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: those were manually started builds by the compile farm
20:46:00  <PeterT> I see
20:46:10  <PeterT> why aren't they made anymore?
20:46:44  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: rather "why were they made in the first place?"
20:47:41  <SpComb> bleep bleep merge conflict
20:47:44  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: technically, the compile farm is open for major projects to reserve a regular "nigtly" spot
20:48:25  <PeterT> and since cargodist isn't updated every day
20:48:27  <Eddi|zuHause> if the patch author requests it, and a dev approves
20:48:42  <Eddi|zuHause> "nightly" doesn't automatically mean "every day"
20:49:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i think the miniin had twice a week
20:50:45  <PeterT> @commit 18772
20:50:48  <DorpsGek> PeterT: Commit by rubidium :: r18772 trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp (2010-01-10 15:35:13 UTC)
20:50:49  <DorpsGek> PeterT: -Feature-ish: allow user customisable compression levels for the zlib compression
20:50:56  <PeterT> How is that customized?
20:51:13  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: in the .cfg, i presume
20:51:36  <PeterT> So, 1 would be most compressed and 7 least?
20:51:41  <PeterT> or other numbers
20:52:03  <Eddi|zuHause> no... 0 [lowest] through 9 [highest] i believe
20:52:07  <Eddi|zuHause> with default being 6
20:52:26  <Rubidium> still lzma is better :)
20:52:39  <Rubidium> ~10% smaller with same CPU usage
20:52:50  <peter1138>
20:52:50  <PeterT> with higher compression comes higher de-compression time?
20:52:52  <SpComb> cargodist doesn't merge cleanly with latest trunk anymore, presumeably after the v->tick_counter change :(
20:53:26  <PeterT> @seen fonsinchen
20:53:26  <DorpsGek> PeterT: fonsinchen was last seen in #openttd 1 hour, 6 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <fonsinchen> Eddi|zuHause: I'd have to write conversion methods for my own old versions in addition to those for the latest trunk version. It'd get messy.
20:53:44  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: that's likely why he has not updated it yet
20:54:16  <welshdragon> hmm
20:54:24  <welshdragon> libiconv is taking ages to get
20:55:28  <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: get a real operating system
20:55:40  <welshdragon> Eddi|zuHause: f.u.
20:55:50  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, funny me ;)
20:56:23  <welshdragon> Eddi|zuHause: at least it isn't hardware that is the issue
20:56:34  <welshdragon> it's a library
20:56:44  <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: speaking of which, what happened to your ram?
20:56:51  <welshdragon> it works
20:57:02  <welshdragon> couple of BSOD's on 7 after i reboot
20:57:06  <welshdragon> but it works
20:57:53  <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: anyway, why is it more difficult than "<packet-manager> install libiconv-devel"?
20:58:23  <welshdragon> Eddi|zuHause: i am following the wiki
20:59:22  * SpComb tries a 365.0K .patch
20:59:31  <PeterT> welshdragon: Once you compile clean trunk, can you tell me how long it takes on a Mac?
20:59:46  <welshdragon> PeterT: sure
20:59:50  <PeterT> thanks
20:59:53  <ashb> welshdragon: if you'r on OSX i recomend homebrew over macports/fink
20:59:55  <PeterT> Linux is the fastest
21:00:01  <PeterT> then MSVC on a good windows computer
21:00:10  <welshdragon> ashb: a bit late for that
21:00:15  <ashb> :)
21:00:23  <ashb>
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21:01:42  <PeterT> welshdragon: What step are you on?
21:02:02  <welshdragon> To compile a static binary (for redistribution) you will need these as well:
21:02:19  <welshdragon> sudo install fontconfig
21:03:08  <PeterT> welshdragon: read the warning, it mentions GIT, and that's what you will need to get cargodist
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21:03:46  <welshdragon> hmph
21:04:28  <welshdragon> at the moment i can't do anything
21:06:04  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: assuming the package manager does not crash when started, like mine atm :p
21:09:17  <SpComb> Rubidium: r18774 fails to compile with ./configure --without-liblzo2 - two "error: 'LZO_SIZE' was not declared in this scope" in saveload/saveload.cpp
21:10:31  <Rubidium> bah... what's using LZO_SIZE outside of the LZO code... bad code
21:17:19  <peter1138> ReadNoComp
21:17:24  <peter1138> InitNoComp
21:19:11  <welshdragon> FFS
21:19:24  <welshdragon> ./configure doesn't work
21:19:50  <Noldo> my money is on user error
21:20:04  <welshdragon> hmm
21:20:24  <Terkhen> I don't get enough precision using gconf... at the same build, "cumulative seconds" can vary from 0.76 to 3.22
21:20:40  <Terkhen> it is too noisy to get any conclusions
21:21:02  <welshdragon> i CD'd into /mark/openttd/src
21:21:03  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18775 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Fix (r18769): non-LZO code used LZO defines, also replace #define with static const uint and add some documentation.
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21:21:27  <PeterT> welshdragon: Update your source
21:21:28  <welshdragon> that was the fault
21:21:30  *** Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
21:21:35  <welshdragon> i was in /src
21:21:37  * Terkhen will give TIC TOC another try
21:21:45  <welshdragon> i should have jut been in /openttd
21:22:59  <PeterT> welshdragon: Do you have LZO library?
21:23:04  <welshdragon> nope
21:23:11  <welshdragon> i'll install it afterwards
21:23:41  <welshdragon> at the moment i want to figure out why make isn't working
21:24:06  <welshdragon> (as that is what the wiki says, and yet it causes errors)
21:24:15  <Terkhen> you should install compilation requirements before trying to compile
21:25:50  <welshdragon> well, that's funny
21:26:00  <welshdragon> as there is no mention of that on the wiki page
21:26:12  <Terkhen> that requirement was introduced today
21:26:22  <Terkhen> I suppose nobody has still updated the wiki for your platform
21:26:27  <welshdragon> nope
21:26:37  <welshdragon> and i've got no idea how to get that lobrary
21:26:41  <welshdragon> *library
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21:27:22  <Terkhen> which OS are you using?
21:27:31  <PeterT>
21:27:36  <welshdragon> OSX
21:27:45  <PeterT>
21:27:46  <PeterT> there
21:27:48  <Terkhen> hmmm... sorry, I don't know about it
21:28:33  <PeterT> welshdragon: Ask in #openttdcoop.devzone, planemaker is there
21:28:36  <PeterT> he is a mac user
21:29:08  <KenjiE20> I'm pretty sure he's here too tbh
21:33:48  <Terkhen> I wonder why I have 130 tunnel connection adapters at Windows 7
21:34:10  <Terkhen> I have to grep ipconfig output to know my IP, because the output is too long
21:37:37  <Alberth> just to make you lost  in the maze of tunnels
21:41:27  <SmatZ> vmware adds ~8 virtual adapters
21:41:49  <__ln> "In the interest of safety, if the flight is full and you have not reserved an additional seat, you may not be allowed to board if your build does not permit you to sit comfortably in a single seat."
21:43:23  <Terkhen> I suppose at least some of them are caused by virtualbox, but 130 is just ridiculous... after googling it seems to be related to IPv6
21:43:37  <Terkhen> I'll have to live with them
21:43:37  <SpComb> hmm, still some of the original buildings show up in alpine towns with TTRS loaded and the first param set to 0
21:43:58  <SpComb> guess it's one of those alpine things
21:44:33  <PeterT> how does git take so long just so Initialize a repo in a folder???
21:45:44  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r18776 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use SmallVector to collect refit options.
21:46:02  <frosch123> git is known to be slow on win
21:47:09  <PeterT> hm
21:48:17  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln: it's like hurley from lost ;)#
21:48:24  <SpComb> __ln: ./configure --enable-lean
21:50:18  * SpComb trialed a r18774 + cargodist + is2 + daylength + misc other fixes with alpine + pbi + dbsetxl + ttrs
21:50:21  <SpComb> worked!
21:51:01  <SmatZ> "worked" as in "intro screen showed without crashing"? :)
21:51:25  <Terkhen> TIC TOC seems to be more precise... let's see if I stop getting strange results
21:51:33  <SpComb> no, worked as in "short multiplayer game with two players/companies, some IS-style busses and farm + food transport"
21:51:47  <PeterT> who did you play with?
21:51:55  <PeterT> I wasn't invited :-(
21:51:57  <SpComb> just a short 15min game with a friend
21:52:08  * SpComb feeds PeterT
21:52:28  <SpComb> although I wouldn't publish a build, since it's got some cargodist merges by meself in it
21:52:47  <PeterT> I'm not going to
21:56:37  <PeterT> SpComb: I'm more interested in the "misc other fixes"
21:56:47  <SpComb> the stuff in that dir
21:56:59  <SpComb> vehicle-name-length, cargodist-is2-linkgraph, daily-autosave
21:56:59  <PeterT> daylenght, minimap fix, and daily autosave?
22:08:48  *** khm [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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22:22:07  <welshdragon> hmm
22:22:11  <welshdragon> Waiting for lock on /opt/local/var/macports/build/_opt_local_var_macports_sources_rsync.macports.org_release_ports_textproc_libiconv/work/.macports.libiconv.state
22:22:25  <welshdragon> that's been like that for 30 minutes
22:23:21  <Eddi|zuHause> means you have something open that blocks it
22:23:33  <welshdragon> yes
22:23:41  <welshdragon> i may have to restart
22:24:06  <peter1138> install a real os?
22:24:09  *** welshdragon [~markmac@] has quit [Quit: welshdragon]
22:24:26  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:26:16  <__ln> macports is not a part of OS X.
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22:31:57  <PeterT> why don't you consider OS X  a real OS?
22:36:05  <Eddi|zuHause> because it isn't
22:36:17  <PeterT> why though?
22:36:25  <Eddi|zuHause> because!
22:36:26  <ashb> its more of a real OPS than windows is
22:36:27  <PeterT> because of it's developing?
22:37:05  <Eddi|zuHause> it isn't even supported by openttd, it can't be a real os
22:37:35  <welshdragon> that's because OpenTTD Developers don't have the resiurces
22:37:49  <Eddi|zuHause> they would have, if it was a real os
22:38:11  <SmatZ> hehe
22:38:45  <welshdragon> it is a real Operating system
22:39:04  <luckz> ashb: what makes it "more real"?
22:39:04  <Eddi|zuHause> it is not.
22:39:26  <Rubidium> how can something be an "operating system" when the system doesn't operate in virtual box?
22:39:27  *** Phoenix_the_II [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:39:51  <luckz> Rubidium: I'm sure you could make it work in some VM, with enough molestation
22:40:08  <welshdragon> < 3rd colmn, second row
22:40:23  <Eddi|zuHause> luckz: believe me, they did A LOT of molestation...
22:40:34  <welshdragon> That's what you developers see a Mac as. don't you?
22:41:00  <Rubidium> luckz: you can make a woman from a man with enough molestation, does that make it a real woman?
22:41:20  <luckz> Rubidium: according to laws etc by all means yes.
22:41:56  <Rubidium> guess we should tell that loophole to the Americans then...
22:41:58  <luckz> Rubidium: christians become christians by labelling themselves as such, obama became afro-american by labelling himself as such.
22:42:37  <PeterT> anybody with windows have God Mode?
22:42:39  <luckz> and you violate the Basic Human Rights of somebody if you tell them they can't be a cute girl.
22:42:59  <luckz> PeterT: spoilers, it's not called that. and no, I'm on vista64 and that is broken permanently if you try to have that kinda party.
22:43:19  <PeterT> yes it is
22:43:21  <PeterT> I have it
22:43:25  <PeterT> I just opened it
22:43:26  <luckz> no it is not.
22:43:28  <andythenorth> in all my time of #openttd, I've never seen an OS holy war.  I'm not sticking around for this one :P
22:43:31  <PeterT> and you are royally screwed
22:43:36  <andythenorth> good night :)
22:43:41  <PeterT> night, OSless man
22:43:44  <luckz> unless you mean "yes it is" => screwed
22:43:48  <luckz> and not = called godmode
22:43:50  <Rubidium> night andythenorth
22:44:06  <luckz> you could call the folder (OpenTTDMode)
22:44:17  <Rubidium> luckz: but... what country cares about the basic human rights lately?
22:44:29  <Rubidium> with all those insane government control things
22:44:42  <Rubidium> that are just pointless...
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22:44:59  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: human rights are only cool when pressuring other countries to obey them...
22:45:53  <luckz> Eddi|zuHause: the petty thief can tell the mass-murderer that murder is wrong.
22:46:04  <luckz> nothing wrong with that.
22:46:37  <Rubidium> luckz: yeah, but who is wrong when invading a country for some stupid reasons that are just already known to be incorrect?
22:46:54  <Eddi|zuHause> luckz: but it has gotten to the point where everybody says to china "internet filtering is wrong" and china says "we only filter pornography" and every country then saying "we need a pornography filter"
22:47:25  *** PeterT [] has quit [Quit: Goodbye]
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22:48:15  <luckz> <- and somebody at least has some OSX running in Vbox.
22:49:21  <Rubidium> oh that reminds me... use children to carry explosives onto a plane because that full-body scanner is apparantly illegal for children as it depicts computer generated images of naked children
22:49:52  <SpComb> <-- quick, someone make a giant-screenshot timelapse video of a 512x512 map!
22:49:53  <Rubidium> and just keep using what they've been using lately for explosives in planes, the scanners they're going to use can't detect that either
22:49:56  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, it's the coolest exploit ever :p
22:50:31  <Terkhen> finally, I finished the optimizations of the unified acceleration code :)
22:50:41  <luckz> Eddi|zuHause: to continue my analogy party, you see the neighbour carry a corpse into his car and drive away. when confronted, he says he was bringing the trash to a nearby dump (assume some weird place without garbage trucks!). then you tell your wife that disposing of your trash is wrong.
22:50:52  <Terkhen> I'm still not sure about the results, but I have triple checked everything
22:50:55  <luckz> (china sure does not 'only filter pornography' and you know it)
22:50:59  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that's funny too... everybody is suddenly screaming "hey, we need those scanners", and the people who sell them say "wait a minute... we couldn't have detected that either..."
22:51:38  <Eddi|zuHause> luckz: how and why would i "know" it?
22:51:45  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't used internet in china
22:51:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what they block...
22:52:20  <Eddi|zuHause> and i don't know whether they block because there was nudity in a picture either
22:52:37  <luckz> Eddi|zuHause: back in the day, one fairly easy way to demonstrate some parts was to search on a google-like chinese page for the chinese character for "freedom" and find yourself IP-blocked immediately.
22:52:47  <SpComb> all the OpenTTD videos on youtube are boring :(
22:52:51  <luckz> sure not debating that 'pornography filters' are massively moronic.
22:53:23  <Rubidium> just look at the Australian filter... it's not working
22:53:34  <luckz> but then, you need to be a mighty dunce/ignoramus to contest that, anyway.
22:53:40  <welshdragon> /shameluss plug: if you want to help users with compiling/patching OpenTTD, or you need help yourself: /j #compile
22:53:49  <welshdragon> /end shameless plug
22:53:55  <SpComb> they said internet filters were 100% accurate and didn't hurt performance
22:54:12  <Eddi|zuHause> luckz: also, out of several hundred items on the finnish child pornography blacklist, only one did contain actual child pornography, the others were either long abandoned pages or pages that protested against the filtering
22:54:56  <SpComb> well, the majority were normal porn sites
22:55:05  <fjb> Best part is that nobody is allowed to know what is filtered.
22:55:05  <SpComb> iirc
22:55:14  <SpComb> yes, of course the lists are secret :)
22:55:20  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: right, i forgot those
22:55:54  <luckz> Eddi|zuHause: as I said -> < luckz> sure not debating that 'pornography filters' are massively moronic.
22:55:57  <Eddi|zuHause> s/secret/leaked/ :p
22:56:36  <welshdragon> hmm
22:56:41  <welshdragon> i'm about to be very hacky
22:56:57  <Eddi|zuHause> the former german family minister had a huge blooper last year, saying that in "countries like iran" child pornography was legal...
22:57:11  <welshdragon> i've downloaded the libiconv tar file, as it was failing
22:57:42  <welshdragon> and now i need to extract it to the right location
22:57:49  <Eddi|zuHause> while she was reading a statistics wrongly... iran does not have a law against child pornography, but it did not consider that even normal pornography is illegal
23:01:19  *** ecke [~ecke@] has joined #openttd
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23:03:38  <__ln> welshdragon: what do you need libiconv tar file for?
23:03:49  <PeterT> compile?
23:03:55  <SpComb> on an related note, wikileaks has a donation page up - replacing everything else >_<
23:04:07  <PeterT> on his non-real OS
23:04:12  <__ln> PeterT: we already have a statement that you cannot read. so.
23:04:55  <welshdragon> __ln: as that is what it started downloading when I needed lzo
23:05:19  <__ln> i see.
23:05:40  <__ln> just remember that OS X comes with some version of libiconv.
23:06:55  <welshdragon> __ln: yes
23:06:59  <welshdragon> i am aware
23:07:23  <welshdragon> but at the moment it is trying o download the file, unsuccessfully
23:07:57  <__ln> Eddi|zuHause: the finnish childporn blacklist mostly blocked (and still blocks) regular porn sites, and also quite a number of sites that are not even porn-related.  and at least one site that critisizes the existence of the blocklist.
23:08:10  *** JVassie^ [~TheExile^] has joined #openttd
23:08:24  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln: yes, that is what i meant
23:08:25  <SpComb>
23:08:27  <SpComb> i.e.
23:09:38  <__ln> and indeed SpComb's link shows what i was about to say, almost all of the sites are/were located in the US or in western Europe.
23:10:16  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, it's basically invalidating all reasons that are given to introduce a blacklist in the first place
23:13:21  <SpComb^_> routing loop'd
23:14:13  <__ln> there's also a court ruling now that says one cannot appeal about one's own site getting on to that list, because the list is not the kind of thing anyone can appeal about (to anywhere).
23:14:43  *** JVassie [~TheExile^] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:16:02  *** SpComb^_ is now known as SpComb^
23:18:21  *** SpComb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:20:23  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18777 /trunk/src/ai/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: remove some unused parameters from a function
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23:20:25  *** Coco-Banana-Man [] has quit [Quit: Regel Nr. 1: Jeder hört auf mein Kommando! - Regel Nr. 2: Jeder bleibt auf dem Weg! - Regel Nr. 3: ... ... Der, der bläht, als hinterster geht!]
23:20:46  <PeterT> the best commits are under-the-hood
23:21:46  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln: of course, why would you build the right for appeal into a law, when the affected person is never allowed to even know that he is on the list
23:22:37  <SpComb^> well, it's possible to determine if your site is on the list or not
23:22:55  <SpComb^> one interesting aspect was the libel one
23:23:10  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb^: yes, but that makes you automatically a criminal ;)
23:23:19  <SpComb^> i.e. if the police are telling a million ISP users that you're putting child porn on your site, what's the significance of that?
23:23:58  <SpComb^> you wouldn't be surprised if I were to tell you that the maintiner of the protest site got angry emails after his site was blacklisted
23:25:55  <__ln> also there is reason to believe that the police did nothing to get those illegal sites closed down.
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23:32:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i believe the german law for the filter is dead
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23:33:04  <Eddi|zuHause> they quickly pushed it through before the election, but after the election the coalition partners changed so they agreed on not enforcing the law
23:33:04  <Terkhen> good night
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23:33:28  <Eddi|zuHause> after that, the president who was about to sign the law said: "what the fuck am i going to do with this now?"
23:33:33  <Eddi|zuHause> and threw it away...
23:34:51  <Eddi|zuHause> there are still some direct treaties with some ISPs who were signed before passing the law, but they might be ruled unconstitutional
23:41:36  <__ln> nobody thinks about the children!
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23:44:34  <Eddi|zuHause> it's so sad it's funny again... the former family minister had seven children, which makes her somewhat qualified for the job, but in the new cabinet they made her work minister (as if she ever worked in her life), and the new family minister is unmarried and has no children at all...
23:44:49  <SmatZ> hehe
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