Log for #openttd on 18th January 2010:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:01:16  <Phazorx> Rubidium: i sort of echoed it
00:01:25  <Phazorx> but it fails even on single item
00:01:40  <Phazorx> build/effect_position.lo: ./effect_position.c	/bin/sh ./libtool --mode=compile gcc -g -O2 -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -Dmain=SDL_main -Ic:/mingw/include/SDL   -DWAV_MUSIC -DMID_MUSIC -DUSE_TIMIDITY_MIDI -I./timidity -DUSE_NATIVE_MIDI -I./native_midi -DOGG_MUSIC -MMD -MT $@ -c $< -o $@ \
00:01:54  <Phazorx> that already has "multiple targets in it" apparently
00:02:06  <Phazorx> could be -Ic:/mingw/include/SDL part
00:02:13  <Phazorx> it does look weird to me
00:02:27  <Phazorx> but mingw apparently doesnt mind paths like that
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00:12:00  <Phazorx> err
00:12:10  <Phazorx> in same damn makefile
00:12:45  <Phazorx> $(OBJECTS:.lo=.d) << is that a proper var name?
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01:01:42  <PeterT> win32 binary link for r18849 is broken :-(
01:02:44  <Phazorx>
01:02:53  <Phazorx> does this looks kosher?
01:02:57  <Yexo> PeterT: what link is broken?
01:03:13  <Yexo> there shouldn't be a link to the win32 binary for r18849
01:03:13  <PeterT> r18849 win32 binary
01:03:23  <PeterT> why?
01:03:31  <Yexo> because the nightly failed to compile
01:03:32  <PeterT> why couldn't it compile today?
01:03:34  <Yexo> due to some cf problems
01:03:43  <PeterT> cf?
01:03:49  <PeterT> what is that short for?
01:03:51  <Yexo> compile farm
01:04:09  <PeterT> oh
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01:05:46  <PeterT> where is the compile farm located?
01:07:42  <Eoin> compile land#
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01:18:57  <PeterT> nooo
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01:33:10  <gathers> to add another industry-related news item, do I have to add a StringID to IndustrySpec in industrytype.h, and then change a LOT of stuff in build_industry.h, or is there a better way?
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01:34:59  <gathers> I want industries to warn ahead if they are about to close, I have a quick patch that kinda works already, except for adding the string with the news text :P
01:43:08  <gathers> ah, nevermind, I just found out I can use the string name from lang/english.txt when calling AddNewsItem() :)
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02:21:28  <AC6000> ._.
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03:12:14  <AC6000> ._.
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03:12:59  <PeterT> it's
03:13:04  <PeterT> a train O_O
03:13:27  <AC6000> thats R/C controlled :P
03:16:24  <AC6000> thats what the car in front of the locos is for
03:18:42  <PeterT> Night
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08:43:56  <Terkhen> good morning
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10:02:08  <planetmaker> Phazorx:
10:02:28  <planetmaker> is that enough help in order to find the window? ;-) ^
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10:05:51  <Phazorx> yup thanks pm
10:11:41  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r18855 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: record compiler name and version in the crash log
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10:38:54  <Phazorx> anyone with mingw clue can help me with this:
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12:09:41  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r18856 /trunk/src/clear_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: do not call GetSlopeZInCorner() when there's no fence to draw
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12:33:02  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r18857 /trunk/src/ (station_base.h station_cmd.cpp station_map.h): -Codechange: don't rely on the fact that all airports are rectangular
12:36:21  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r18858 /trunk/src/ (disaster_cmd.cpp water_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: use IsAirportTile where possible
12:53:13  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r18859 /trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp: -Codechange: rename glwp_modes to GenenerateLandscapeWindowMode
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13:50:37  <insulfrog> hi
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14:13:58  <Belugas> hello
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14:18:44  <Ammler> Sal?
14:22:25  <SpComb> Mui.
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14:32:59  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r18860 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: introduce a wrapper to get an hangar tile from a station
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14:54:06  <Phazorx> any cmake users?
14:56:47  <Rubidium> I reckon most Gentoo users are (indirectly) cmake users, but I don't think that's what you're looking for
14:57:30  <Phazorx> Rubidium: how to tame the beast basically
14:57:49  <Rubidium> well... I have absolutely no idea
14:57:59  <Phazorx> 2 particular questis are how can i emaulate ./configure --prefix behavior
14:58:10  <Phazorx> and how can i pass -pg to compiler with it
14:58:24  <Rubidium> you're better off asking in a channel dedicated to cmake
14:58:44  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r18861 /trunk/src/ (genworld.cpp genworld.h genworld_gui.cpp): -Doc: more doxygen documentation in genworld files
14:59:20  <Phazorx> Rubidium: if there would be one with active people in it..
15:00:07  <Rubidium> try a kde development channel; it's using cmake
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15:01:58  <Maedhros> Phazorx: i think you're looking for CMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX
15:02:27  <Maedhros> Phazorx: which you can specify as something like `cmake -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX=/usr/local`
15:03:39  <KenjiE20> I've seen it as -DPREFIX=/path/to/install
15:04:07  <Phazorx> Maedhros: i tried set(prefix blah), prefix=blah cmake and cmake prefix=blah
15:04:09  <Phazorx> neither worked
15:04:15  <Phazorx> let's try -d one now
15:04:44  <KenjiE20> -dprefix is the one I used for building weechat-dev
15:06:29  <Phazorx> also... is there a dirrective to update the config?
15:06:46  <Phazorx> because rm CMakeCache each time is kinda silly
15:07:46  <Phazorx> wee
15:07:59  <Phazorx> -DCMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX worked
15:08:04  <Phazorx> how about compiler flags?
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15:10:01  <Maedhros> Phazorx: CMAKE_C_FLAGS and CMAKE_CXX_FLAGS
15:10:25  <Maedhros> this page might help:
15:10:55  <Phazorx> Maedhros: i read that one
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15:11:12  <Phazorx> it ha lots of info but it evades me how can i use most of it to my advantage
15:11:58  <Phazorx> as in do i use SET or -D woth these
15:12:09  <Phazorx> i guess -D is safer way since it just shown it works
15:12:16  <Maedhros> you can use both, i think
15:12:54  <Phazorx> Maedhros: set (blah) and blah cmake ... both failed before i asked here :|
15:13:16  <Phazorx> i did do it slighty different tho
15:13:44  <Phazorx> since it supports different build modes i tried to force debug build while specifying debug complile flags
15:13:55  <Phazorx> so it could have failed on either of these 2 spots :/
15:15:50  <Phazorx> grr
15:16:05  <Phazorx> there is no *FLAG* in makefile at all
15:17:06  <PeterT> jesus you're still compiling that?
15:17:37  <Phazorx> PeterT: what do you mean that?
15:17:48  <PeterT> Weren't you doing this yesterday?
15:19:13  <Phazorx> compiling ys
15:19:14  <Phazorx> same thing no
15:19:26  <Phazorx> and i tell you more
15:19:32  <Phazorx> most of people you see in this chan
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15:19:42  <Phazorx> been compiling for about 1/3 of their lives!
15:20:53  <Terkhen> hello
15:22:23  <PeterT> Hi Terkhen
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15:30:59  * Maedhros cries
15:31:14  <Maedhros> 10 Kelvin does not equal 7.27 degrees C
15:31:34  <Maedhros> how on earth did they miss this one?
15:31:52  <blathijs> Hm? Another space shuttle crash? :-)
15:32:00  <peter1138> ?
15:32:28  <Maedhros> trying to tell our diffractometer control software the temperature of a sample
15:32:38  <Maedhros> at least specifying it in centigrade appears to work
15:33:41  <planetmaker> ? @ Maedhros
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15:34:34  <Eddi|zuHause> they're only like 260 degrees off :p
15:34:41  <Eddi|zuHause> that's nothing in astronomical scale :p
15:35:02  <jonty-comp> it's nothing in a positive temperature astronomical scale
15:35:12  <jonty-comp> but it's quite a lot in a negative temperature astronomical scale
15:35:20  <jonty-comp> Maedhros could be working with superconductors!
15:35:23  <Rubidium> yeah, 260 degrees... that's like
15:35:42  <Rubidium> @calc (360-260)/360*2*3.14
15:35:42  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 1.74444444444
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15:35:51  <Rubidium> not much
15:36:29  <Eddi|zuHause> exactly what i'm saying. it's not even _one_ full circle :p
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15:37:41  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... our "weather persistent" cables might not be as persistent as one would like...
15:38:26  <Eddi|zuHause> at least our outdoor cables yanked out the main fuse...
15:39:35  <Rubidium> "weather persistent" != "excavator persistent"
15:40:33  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: it's melting outside, and apparently water got into one of the connector boxes...
15:41:29  <planetmaker> <-- just to tell everyone here: all those downloads here violate the GPL
15:41:51  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18862 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [FS#3544]: don't pass AI strings through iconv
15:42:04  <SpComb> planetmaker: lack of COPYING or incomplete source?
15:42:05  <planetmaker> (and they come w/o the openttdd/w.grf, too
15:42:16  <planetmaker> only openttd binary and lang dir
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15:42:27  <Rubidium> lack of COPYING; I told them, but I never got a reaction from them
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15:42:57  <Rubidium> hmm, maybe that's logical because they're on my ignore list
15:43:08  <planetmaker> I just checked. He claims that GPL doesn't require at as his download page has *somewhere* a copyright notice
15:43:12  <planetmaker> I didn't see it, though
15:43:19  <SpComb> because the lack of the COPYING isn't really worth killing someone over
15:43:34  <Eddi|zuHause> "All the files in the download section are protected by the: GNU General Public License Version 2, June 1991. Which can be read here." <--
15:43:42  <SpComb> there's a link to it, yes
15:43:55  <SpComb> (the changelog as well?)
15:43:58  <Eddi|zuHause> but lack of source is a problem
15:44:01  <planetmaker> it's in fine print.
15:44:11  <planetmaker> yea, just saw it.
15:44:16  <Rubidium> okay.. now...
15:44:24  <planetmaker> well. Lack of source... can be requested, I guess
15:44:26  <Rubidium> <- where is the GPL notice on that page?
15:44:33  <planetmaker> exactly ^
15:44:33  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: well, there's the .patch, which is better than a plain source zip, imo
15:44:46  <Eddi|zuHause> where is the patch?
15:44:50  <Yexo> <planetmaker> well. Lack of source... can be requested, I guess <- click on "0.7.5C patch" to download it
15:44:52  <PeterT> under "Patch"
15:44:54  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: below the changelog
15:45:11  <PeterT> you have to click on it, and it will show
15:45:19  <Eddi|zuHause> ah...
15:45:20  <Rubidium> SpComb: it's ofcourse hoping that they based it on 0.7.5 and not something different
15:45:28  <SpComb> of course, there's the question of does the binary correspond to the patch
15:46:17  <SpComb> but come on, there isn't anything wrong as such with providing modified binaries of GPL code for download
15:46:21  <PeterT> I can tell you that the linux binary *is* based off of 0.7.5, and it *does* correspond to the patch
15:46:28  <Terkhen> how can you check that?
15:46:30  <SpComb> sure, it'd be nice if it was a proper bundle, but that's a style issue
15:46:46  <PeterT> Terkhen: I made it ;-)
15:47:01  <PeterT> But Luukland took out the necesarry files :-(
15:47:10  <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> well. Lack of source... can be requested, I guess <-- it's not the point that it can be requested, there must be a _written offer_ to request the source [or a source download]
15:47:23  <Terkhen> that's not an answer to my question
15:47:34  <SpComb> there's a lot of OpenTTD binaries out there with only a .patch provided
15:47:35  <planetmaker> right. There's no text whatsoever, though
15:47:50  <PeterT> Terkhen: I don't understand?
15:48:05  <PeterT> I guess I can't check it, but I did make it, then I sent it to luukland
15:48:13  <Yexo> <SpComb> there's a lot of OpenTTD binaries out there with only a .patch provided <- that's a corner case, but generally accepted as always uploading the complete source would be a waste of resources
15:48:20  <planetmaker> Providing the patch file is IMO sufficient.
15:49:10  <jonty-comp> so long as you make it obvious where you can get the rest of the source from, I reckon
15:49:13  <Rubidium> technically providing the patch is not sufficient
15:49:17  <Eddi|zuHause> providing the patch is not sufficient in itself
15:49:23  <SpComb> practically, it is
15:49:36  <jonty-comp> technically not many things are sufficient :P
15:49:45  <planetmaker> hehe
15:50:00  <SpComb> providing a copy of the GPL is also a requirement, but nobody really cares
15:50:13  <PeterT> Well, usually
15:50:45  <SpComb> I'd tell them to get their act together and publish a proper bundle, but that's their problem
15:50:48  <Rubidium> SpComb: actually, on the forum I usually remove stuff that doesn't have the COPYING file
15:51:13  <SpComb> how does that benefit anyone? /:
15:51:29  <Yexo> the packager learns to package the required files
15:51:31  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: it teaches them to do it properly next time
15:51:53  <jonty-comp> or it teaches them to not bother at all
15:51:57  <jonty-comp> which might be better anyway
15:52:35  <SpComb> removing anything that isn't a bundle would make more sense
15:52:54  <PeterT> No, it wouldn't
15:52:57  <SpComb> but you could also think of the .zip there as a patch - apply it on top of your 0.7.5 install, and presto, you get an openttd.exe, a COPYING, etc :)
15:53:15  <PeterT> I used to only upload my /bin dir with a COPYING
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15:53:41  * SpComb uploads himself to somewhere else
15:54:02  <Rubidium> SpComb: but the page claims that downloading OpenTTD from anywhere else is dangerous
15:54:37  <PeterT> Rubidium: Which page is that?
15:54:40  <Bluelight> Yeah.. :p
15:54:56  <Bluelight> Download
15:55:17  <PeterT> it says that?
15:55:40  <Bluelight> All binaries officially released by us should only be downloaded from this website! If you downloaded from another location, it could be possible that the file didn't came from us, it might possibly contain dangerous modifications and the file should therefor not be trusted!
15:55:46  <Rubidium> also the manual breaks quite hard when using e.g. 0.6.2 as 'base' (i.e. Debian Lenny)
15:56:29  <Terkhen> it does, I suppose they mean their lots-of-floats version and not stable OpenTTD
15:57:36  <Rubidium> Terkhen: that can't be it; the archive does only have the binary, not openttd[wd].grf *.obg etc.
15:59:01  <blathijs> Bluelight: s/came/come/
15:59:27  <Terkhen> that does not seem very trusty
15:59:57  <Bluelight> blathijs: ?
16:00:50  <blathijs> Bluelight: There's a typo in that text
16:01:14  <Rubidium> as 0.7.5C needs the .obg files and 0.6.2 ("current") doesn't have those, 0.7.5C doesn't work if you base your work on 0.6.2
16:01:21  <Bluelight> Yeah it's not mine..:p
16:01:34  <Bluelight> Copy/Paste
16:01:43  <planetmaker> well. he removed the files. Or it seems so
16:01:49  * Rubidium wonders whether double past becomes present
16:02:14  <Bluelight> Can someone tell me about the OpenTTD versions?
16:02:21  <planetmaker> Rubidium, was gone = is going then ?
16:02:27  <Rubidium>
16:02:33  <Bluelight> Is 0.7.5 better then beta 1.0?
16:02:46  <PeterT> Is 0.3.0 better than 0.4.0?
16:02:50  <planetmaker> 1.0.0 is beta :-P
16:02:59  <Rubidium> depends on your point of view
16:03:02  <Noldo> stability or features?
16:03:09  <Bluelight> And beta means unfinished or testing?
16:03:13  <PeterT> Testing
16:03:15  <Yexo> 1.0.0-beta is newer, but 0.7.5 is more stable I think
16:03:32  <PeterT> I haven't experienced a crash with 0.7.5
16:03:41  <Eddi|zuHause> each added feature increases the chance of instability, so 0.3 is better than 0.4 is better than 0.7 is better than 1.0
16:03:57  <Noldo> :)
16:03:57  <Yexo> hehe :)
16:04:13  <Yexo> that'd be true if we'd keep backporting fixes to all releases
16:04:33  <Bluelight> Well arn't the coders supposed to fix instabillity?
16:04:45  <insulfrog> gotta go
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16:04:55  <Eddi|zuHause> YES! WHIP THEM UNTIL IT'S STABLE!
16:05:11  <Eddi|zuHause> darn coders! doing nothing all day!
16:05:13  <Yexo> Bluelight: of course, but when introducing new features sometimes a new bug is introduced
16:05:28  <Bluelight> Hmm.. Ok
16:05:37  <Noldo> sometimes?
16:05:43  <Bluelight> Have anybody tried FreeCiv?
16:05:55  <Eddi|zuHause> each time a bug is fixed, two new ones are introduced :p
16:06:00  <PeterT> Lol
16:06:08  <Phazorx> Bluelight: i did
16:06:17  <Noldo> Bluelight: we played a game at work about a year ago
16:06:18  <Eddi|zuHause> [corollary of murphy's law]
16:06:42  <Bluelight> Ok, I'm in need of professional help here..
16:06:45  <planetmaker> Bluelight, try freecol ;-)
16:06:54  <Eddi|zuHause> since i played civ 4, i don't like the game mechanics of civ 2 anymore...
16:06:59  <Terkhen> I tried it two years ago, I played a few games but then I discovered OpenTTD
16:07:11  <planetmaker> hehe @ Terkhen
16:07:27  <Eddi|zuHause> freecol is nice, yes
16:07:38  <planetmaker> they have an especially awesome intro screen
16:07:48  <Phazorx> i like c-evo more than rest of cov clones actually
16:07:48  <Eddi|zuHause> freeciv has a rubbish interface imho...
16:07:56  <planetmaker> some artist really let his or her creativity run freely there :-)
16:07:58  <Bluelight> Ok, first of all.. Is it normal that when I try to move a unit it is sometimes stuck? So I have to unselect it and select it again and then it works?
16:08:01  <Terkhen> I haven't tried any civs beyond II and freeciv, do they "lose the magic"?
16:08:11  <planetmaker> Bluelight, ask in the freeciv channel?
16:08:34  <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: civ 4 is awesome...
16:08:46  <Bluelight> And why is it that I did the tutorial and when I got my firs sea vessel, the enemy had modern battleships? lol I haveno chance against those..
16:09:01  <Bluelight> Is there such channel?
16:09:13  <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: it has extreme modding abilities
16:09:35  <Eddi|zuHause> things might get very complex if you just dive into it, though ;)
16:09:43  <Terkhen> and it has a good mod community?
16:09:44  <Bluelight> Where do I find freeciv channel?
16:09:49  <PeterT>
16:09:56  <Rubidium> gheheh :)
16:10:05  <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: or so...
16:10:21  <planetmaker> Bluelight, I once stomped the AI with tanks and artillery and the AI had like phalanx. So... it's possible
16:10:38  <Eddi|zuHause> .com
16:10:58  <PeterT> Does mor have a life? :
16:11:06  <Rubidium>
16:11:46  <Sacro> tje celts, nice
16:11:48  <Sacro> *the
16:11:58  <PeterT> How did you manage that, Rubidium? :-)
16:12:18  <planetmaker> loool @ screenshot :-P
16:12:50  <Terkhen> I will try civ4 then... I miss civilization games, but I'm too used to modern interfaces to enjoy them anymore
16:12:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: typical dailywtf material ;)
16:13:22  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: exactly why I'm not sending it to them
16:13:23  <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: can probably get civ4 complete (inclusive addons) for 10EUR
16:13:45  <peter1138> PeterT?
16:13:57  <PeterT> Hi peter1138
16:17:59  <murr4y> hi peters
16:18:13  <PeterT> peter1138: What did you want?
16:18:15  <Terkhen> I'll probably include it in my next order
16:18:41  <peter1138> oh, it was a link
16:18:49  <peter1138> it highlighted me, hurr
16:18:54  <PeterT> sorry
16:19:35  <peter1138> you will be
16:19:40  <peter1138> when i think of some punishment
16:19:41  <PeterT> How did Luuland upload there?
16:19:43  <PeterT> *luukland
16:20:21  <planetmaker> he didn't, I'm sure ;-)
16:21:22  <PeterT> petern likes to upload luukland's patches O_O
16:21:37  <peter1138> is there a problem with that?
16:22:05  <peter1138> just as well, as it doesn't seem to be available from the original site any more
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17:28:06  <PeterT> somebody, clever remark:
17:29:56  <Goulp> what's up PeterT ?
17:30:10  <PeterT> what?
17:30:20  <PeterT> ah
17:30:26  * Goulp has some Muxy inside
17:30:29  <PeterT> somebody, make a clever remark to that
17:31:09  <planetmaker> he's on my ignore :-P
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17:35:56  <Terkhen> soon he will have the honour of being the first person in mine
17:36:09  <heffer> ew
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17:45:30  <planetmaker> Terkhen: he is the first in mine. Or rather: the only one
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17:48:25  <Terkhen> I have been considered to ignore other annoying people in the past... but this guy is different; I can't stand a single post from him, and there is like 50 every day
17:49:29  <Rubidium> that's why everyone that starts a conversation with him on IRC earns a in my list
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17:51:06  <Rubidium> but I agree that the forum 'foo' thing is totally inadequate
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18:01:12  <PeterT> Terkhen: You don't happen to have a binary for improved road acceleration, do you?
18:01:27  <Terkhen> no
18:01:34  <Terkhen> I don't have a diff either
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18:12:16  <rait> got a freeze while exiting. should i file a bug?
18:13:35  <Rubidium> rait: are you using Ubuntu 9.10?
18:13:48  <rait> windows server 2008 r2
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18:14:12  <rait> should be same as windows 7
18:14:30  <Rubidium> never heard about OpenTTD freezing on close on Windows
18:14:40  <Terkhen> I use windows 7, I never had any freezes after exiting
18:15:10  <Rubidium> rait: freeze as in "takes a while before finally closing" or as in "doesn't close ever at all"?
18:15:15  <rait> well. i havent killed it, what should i do to help resolve it?
18:15:27  <rait> has been the same for ~5 min
18:16:17  <Rubidium> do you by any chance have MSVC installed?
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18:16:37  <rait> visual c?
18:16:55  <sawtooth> ....................
18:17:00  <sawtooth> cat :)
18:17:23  <Rubidium> rait: yes
18:18:15  <rait> got c++ redistributables
18:19:00  <Rubidium> glx: how can you kill OpenTTD in a way that it makes the crash.dmp?
18:19:18  <rait> i can dump it from task manager ...
18:19:18  <Rubidium> rait: is this the first time you use OpenTTD on windows 2008?
18:19:22  <rait> nope
18:19:33  <rait> work's like a charm most of the time
18:19:59  <rait> meaning no crashes or other problems before
18:20:16  <Rubidium> rait: killing it in the task manager doesn't trigger the crash dump generation, which we need to figure out where it hangs
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18:20:41  <rait> in task manager, there is an option to dump the process
18:20:49  <Rubidium> without that, and without reproducability, I see absolutely no way to get clue what the problem is
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18:21:16  <Rubidium> rait: hmm, don't know that option (and thus don't know whether it's useful)
18:21:30  <glx> Rubidium: release build with alt-0 crash enabled, I see no other way
18:21:55  <Rubidium> glx: that won't help... alt-0 only works because that codepath is ran
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18:23:06  <Rubidium> rait: please try the dump thing and see what that results in
18:23:21  <Rubidium> oh, what version of OpenTTD are you using?
18:23:23  <rait> it creates a 112MB dump file
18:23:36  <rait> 1.0.0-beta2, 64bit
18:24:29  <Rubidium> can you DCC that to me?
18:24:39  <peter1138> 112MB? yikes
18:25:04  <Rubidium> peter1138: yeah, probably a full dump of all the memory :(
18:25:39  <rait> can't i use rapidshare or smth? not sure my client can do DCC
18:25:57  <Rubidium> please try DCC first
18:26:22  <Rubidium> rapidshare, for some reason, isn't that rapid for me
18:28:50  <Rubidium> hmm, okay that doesn't seem to work :(... then... rapidshare it is
18:29:23  <rait> i also got a web domain, would that be ok?
18:29:44  <Rubidium> yup, as long as I can download it from there
18:32:16  <rait> 1,5h ...
18:32:36  <peter1138> is it not zippable?
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18:33:46  <rait> good point, trying 7zip
18:35:00  <Rubidium> oh, 1,5h... then I can do some other stuff first :)
18:35:04  <rait> miracle of compression. 19M, 20min
18:35:18  <planetmaker> :-)
18:35:37  <planetmaker> I can compress better. Is lossless compression required? ;-)
18:35:52  <rait> i also got a savegame, made seconds before freeze. might that help?
18:36:08  <fjb> You can compress every file to the size of 1 Byte. :-)
18:36:40  <planetmaker> ^^
18:36:49  <planetmaker> rait: in case of doubt: yes
18:38:36  <rait> any other stuff i should poke the still running process before killing it?
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18:39:19  <planetmaker> screenshot?
18:39:39  <rait> screenshot of a frozen process??
18:40:23  <glx> the best would be start msvc and attach it but I guess you cannot
18:40:36  <planetmaker> if it doesn't make sense: then no. The usual crash produces one. Whether it's useful... maybe sometimes
18:40:48  <Rubidium> planetmaker: but there IS no crash
18:41:07  <planetmaker> Rubidium: yes, I know :-) That's why I proposed to MAKE a screenshot :-)
18:41:29  <planetmaker> if there's no usuable UI anymore... oh well.
18:41:39  <rait> i got something called windbg installed ...
18:42:10  <PeterT> what does that do?
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18:42:42  <rait> debugger for kernel dumps
18:45:13  <glx> I think you'll need the pdb
18:45:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r18863 /trunk/src/lang/ (hebrew.txt polish.txt spanish.txt ukrainian.txt):
18:45:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by
18:45:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: hebrew - 38 changes by dnd_man
18:45:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: polish - 1 changes by xaxa
18:45:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen
18:45:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 2 changes by Madvin
18:46:07  <rait> i got the "Debugging Tools for Windows" package
18:47:02  <rait> no reference to pdb in help
18:48:28  <peter1138> it's short for wind bag
18:48:56  <glx> pdb contains symbols
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18:49:26  <rait> as in debugging symbols? the ones that get stripped on compiling?
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18:51:10  <rait>
18:51:19  <rait> savegame, screenshot, compressed dump
18:52:07  <PeterT> download is quite fast, thanks
18:52:44  <rait> anything else i can do?
18:53:08  * glx getting the 7z (to see if it's usable)
18:57:18  <rait> let me know, gotta run in 10min
18:57:39  <PeterT> glx: You said you had the Express Editions?
18:57:39  <glx> it's usable it seems
18:57:47  <glx> PeterT: yes
18:57:56  <glx> and ?
18:58:07  <PeterT> How can you debug/tell if its usable with Express editions?
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18:58:16  <PeterT> my MSVC just complained about it being x64
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18:58:23  <PeterT> and that it can't do anything with x64
18:58:26  <jonty-comp> Express doesn't like x64 so much
18:58:38  <glx> mine does since yesterday :)
18:58:45  <PeterT> ?
18:58:50  <PeterT> How so?
18:58:56  <glx>
18:59:16  <jonty-comp> I couldn't even get it to build
18:59:17  <jonty-comp> oh, hmm
18:59:43  <jonty-comp> well, there's not much point to me building in x64 anyway, it's hardly faster on this PC and I doubt openttd is going to use more than 3GB RAM :P
18:59:50  <glx> seems to be in sound driver shutdown
19:00:37  <glx> <-- the trace from rait dmp
19:03:03  <rait> anything else i can give you?
19:04:51  <glx> I don't think we can get much info
19:05:19  <glx> *more
19:06:12  <PeterT> lol "flyswatter"
19:06:13  <PeterT>
19:06:49  <rait> ok. i'll be back in 3h, if there's anything else, write it here
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19:11:12  <gathers> Quick sanity check; is there any setting to make openttd warn "about a year" ahead before an industry closes? or is that a feature from some grf files?
19:12:01  <PeterT> I take it you've seen BlueEagle_nl's reply
19:12:26  <gathers> yes
19:13:11  <Rubidium> hmm, so it hangs in Windows' code. Looks like we can't do much about that :(
19:23:25  <andythenorth> umm neob is in 'my' thread  :x
19:24:00  <PeterT> yes he is
19:24:10  <andythenorth> I want him to piss off
19:24:17  <PeterT> Forum report button?
19:25:20  <andythenorth> he's not actually doing *anything* wrong.  he's just annoying
19:25:28  <andythenorth> it's kind of unfair to dislike the guy
19:26:20  <PeterT> which thread is this?
19:26:25  <PeterT> FISH release thread or FIRS?
19:26:25  <andythenorth> FISH release
19:26:38  * andythenorth refrains from flaming.  I want a nice clean thread :P
19:27:23  <PeterT> so? andythenorth when is 32bpp fish coming out? Huh? when? come on... when?
19:28:04  <andythenorth> from me?  never
19:28:07  <andythenorth> however it is GPL
19:29:20  <PeterT> I was joking
19:29:23  <PeterT> but ok
19:29:48  <andythenorth> PeterT: I get that you were joking ;)
19:30:08  <PeterT> but you felt it was needed to provide a real answer?
19:32:03  <PeterT> why doesn't openttd have custom bridge heads?
19:32:27  <planetmaker> *someone* as usual was a lazy guy
19:33:27  <peter1138> heh
19:33:44  <peter1138> and then some plonker thinks it needs to be made with models and renders *sigh*
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19:34:49  <Terkhen> someone should force *someone* to finish some of his projects
19:37:23  <Terkhen> I don't see the relation between custom bridge heads and models and renders
19:41:29  <andythenorth> the funny thing is, FISH is almost entirely based on over-painting 3D models.  So some kind of 32BPP would actually be trivial.  I'm just not going to do it
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19:45:17  <Terkhen> coding stuff again is boring
19:45:45  <arachnist> FISH?
19:45:56  <planetmaker> fish'n ships
19:46:01  <Terkhen> let's see if I can have the new improved acceleration for road vehicles today
19:46:02  <arachnist> oh
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19:47:29  <PeterT> arachnist:
19:48:13  <PeterT> andythenorth: I still don't know what BANDIT is, other than Rubidium's description
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19:55:22  * andythenorth stupid internet connection
19:57:38  <andythenorth> PeterT: BANDIT is a platform for producing truck sets....or it's vapourware with a silly acronym
19:58:04  <andythenorth> depends if I can recruit Dan MacK (among others) to draw for it, and whether I get fed up of creating newgrfs
19:58:06  <PeterT> I see
19:58:13  <PeterT> well, not really, but I can wait for a GRF
19:58:31  <andythenorth> the point is you could wait for several grfs
19:58:36  <andythenorth> trucks the world over are mostly the same
19:58:43  <andythenorth> with trains we can combine sets
19:58:51  <andythenorth> but articulated RVs can't be combined in game
19:59:05  <andythenorth> they can however be combined at the grf encoding / makefile stage
19:59:27  <andythenorth> allowing for a Euro truck set, a US truck set etc.  from the same codebase and reusing sprites
20:00:29  <planetmaker> :-D
20:00:37  <planetmaker> you got too many plans, andy ;-)
20:00:42  <Terkhen> :)
20:01:15  <andythenorth> I got too little time :)
20:01:26  <andythenorth> you should see my unfinished Lego projects :o
20:04:14  <andythenorth>
20:04:19  <andythenorth> (that one is finished)
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20:17:19  <Eoin> FISH is certainly coming on Andel
20:17:22  <Eoin> uhm fail
20:17:24  <Eoin> andythenorth
20:17:57  <andythenorth> :P
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21:38:50  <Bjarni> hello Hackykid
21:38:59  <Bjarni> !seen Hackykid
21:39:17  <Hackykid> heya Bjarni
21:40:39  * Hackykid got bitten by the transport tycoon bug again
21:40:41  <Hackykid> :O
21:40:44  <PeterT> Bjarni: @seen Hackykid
21:40:46  <Hackykid> stupid addictive game :-p
21:40:55  <PeterT> And Hello Bjarni
21:40:56  <Bjarni> @ it is
21:40:59  <Bjarni> but now it's too late
21:41:04  <Bjarni> he already said something
21:42:04  <Hackykid> awwww
21:42:14  <PeterT> it's not to late
21:42:18  <PeterT> @seen Hackykid
21:42:18  <DorpsGek> PeterT: Hackykid was last seen in #openttd 13 seconds ago: <Hackykid> awwww
21:42:46  <Rubidium> Bjarni: @seen fails anyway because it's logs were trashed fairly recently
21:42:54  <Hackykid> don't think it matters anyway, last time i was in #openttd it was still on freenode i think
21:43:18  <__ln> @seen Tron
21:43:18  <DorpsGek> __ln: I have not seen Tron.
21:43:39  <andythenorth> @seen Transformers, Revenge of the Fallen
21:43:39  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: seen [<channel>] <nick>
21:44:44  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18864 /trunk/src/ (settings.cpp table/settings.h): -Fix [FS#3532]: town noise population settings could not be changed in-game
21:44:51  <Terkhen> good night
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21:51:36  <SpComb> boo, why can't a company buy up 100% of another company? :(
21:52:15  <Rubidium> huh, AFAIK you can
21:52:20  <Rubidium> although maybe not in MP
21:52:28  <SpComb> that's what I was guessing
21:52:37  *** dragonhorseboy [] has joined #openttd
21:52:40  <SpComb> in an MP game it only lets you buy up 75%
21:52:49  <dragonhorseboy> lol spcomb didn't think you'll be here too :P
21:53:00  * SpComb does a hostile takeover of dragonhorseboy
21:53:22  <dragonhorseboy> spcomb I wouldn't mind .. but it doesn't work ;)
21:55:11  <Rubidium> I guess it doesn't work there because of (ancient) "can't move players to another company" stuff
22:05:58  <Noldo> the shares just don't make any sense
22:06:46  <Belugas> ho... taht late.... /me runs
22:06:50  <Belugas> bye bye
22:06:55  <PeterT> Bye
22:06:58  <Rubidium> night Belugas
22:08:17  <frosch123> Noldo: too realistic?
22:08:48  <Lyzio> Noldo: how should they be instead?
22:08:55  <Noldo> frosch123: ;)
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22:12:15  <Noldo> frosch123: now that I think about it, yes too realistic
22:13:06  <Noldo> it would have to balanced with quite a lot of realism in other areas for it to work
22:13:32  <planetmaker> If I have a line "#define VAR2 VAR1" - what does subsequently a "#ifdef VAR2" evaluate to, if VAR1 was never defined?
22:14:02  <Noldo> to string "VAR1" ?
22:14:03  <Rubidium> I'd say true
22:14:24  <planetmaker> hm, plausible. Thanks
22:14:32  <Rubidium> just check header inclusions to get an idea
22:14:40  <Rubidium> +protection
22:15:12  <Noldo> reading the questions is basically a cheat
22:19:26  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18865 /trunk/docs/openttd.6: -Doc: update the manpage
22:20:13  <peter1138> oh, a Hackykid!
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22:29:39  <Eddi|zuHause> [18.01.2010 19:17] <sawtooth> cat :) <--- so it's a sawtoothcat? :p
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22:40:14  <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> If I have a line "#define VAR2 VAR1" - what does subsequently a "#ifdef VAR2" evaluate to, if VAR1 was never defined? <-- just don't think of "var" as a "var", #ifdef checks if the name was defined, not that it expands to anything useful [it can expand to an empty string as well]
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22:52:10  <peter1138> @seen tdev
22:52:10  <DorpsGek> peter1138: I have not seen tdev.
22:52:16  <peter1138> @seen thomasdev
22:52:16  <DorpsGek> peter1138: I have not seen thomasdev.
22:52:28  <PeterT> peter1138: DorpsGek's logs crashed
22:52:43  <Rubidium> if he wasn't here the last week he won't show up
22:56:34  <peter1138> yup, i know hat
22:56:36  <peter1138> +t
22:57:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18866 /trunk/src/ (24 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: remove the CmdFailed(ret)/CmdSucceeded(ret) wrapper functions
22:58:20  <SpComb> hmm, cargodist needs another update already, been a week
22:59:11  <PeterT> what do you mean?
22:59:18  *** ra-p11 [~ra-p11@] has joined #openttd
22:59:21  <PeterT> cargodist with sprinkles?
22:59:25  <PeterT> or just plain cargodist
23:00:14  <SpComb> cargodist
23:04:26  *** ra-p11 [~ra-p11@] has quit [Quit: ra-p11]
23:04:51  <peter1138> ah well, ror didn't work. never mind.
23:05:21  <PeterT> SpComb: Are you on windows?
23:05:33  <SpComb> no, but I have a windows VM
23:05:53  <PeterT> Ok
23:05:58  <PeterT> What OS do you have?
23:05:59  <PeterT> linux?
23:06:02  <SpComb> yes
23:06:10  <PeterT> so, you can work with GIT quite easily?
23:06:14  <SpComb> yes
23:06:39  <PeterT> why not update it yourself?
23:08:05  <SpComb> I'd preferr to let fonso do it, since he knows the code and has to figure out any crashes that it causes
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23:08:24  <PeterT> I see
23:14:45  <Yexo> git works perfectly fine on windows
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23:18:32  <PeterT> Yexo: it's much slower, though ;-P
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23:18:55  <Yexo> possible, but far from unusable
23:19:08  <PeterT> SpComb
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23:19:18  <PeterT> do you want me to update my binaries to your newest post?
23:19:55  <SpComb> well, if you want to
23:20:01  <SpComb> r18790 is 6 days old :/
23:20:12  <SpComb> but it does include the tick_counter -related commit that might fix some of the earlier issues
23:21:08  *** KritiK [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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23:21:14  <PeterT> ok
23:21:33  <SpComb> I'd wait for fonso to update cargodist to something more recent and then post an updated build
23:21:44  <PeterT> i agree
23:21:58  <PeterT> so, will you be posting updated versions of this new patch?
23:22:12  <SpComb> updated against what?
23:22:18  <PeterT> cargodist?
23:22:31  <SpComb> once it's updated? Sure, once you poke me :)
23:22:40  <PeterT> !poke SpComb
23:22:43  <SpComb> not yet :(
23:22:47  <PeterT> !poke
23:22:48  <PeterT> !poke
23:23:08  <PeterT> That reminds me of the poke button on FaceBook (TM)
23:25:30  * Rubidium wonders what's the point in building a binary for each update of cargodist; it's not savegame compatible, so people won't be updating that much
23:26:06  <PeterT> That's like saying there isn't a point to nightlies
23:26:09  <SpComb> Rubidium: well, there's stuff fixed in trunk that might apply
23:26:10  <orudge> well
23:26:15  <orudge> Rubidium has somewhat of a point
23:26:16  <SpComb> and people start new games occasionally
23:26:17  <PeterT> what SpComb said
23:26:19  <orudge> it's not exactly the same as nightlies
23:26:25  <orudge> if the saved games aren't compatible
23:26:29  <orudge> obviously, having new binaries is not a bad thing
23:26:30  <SpComb> indeed not
23:26:35  <PeterT> yes, since nighty games are compatible
23:26:37  <orudge> but it's not quite as essential
23:26:49  <PeterT> also, thinking about new users
23:26:49  <sawtooth> i should give the autosep patch a try the next time i update cargodist and start a game
23:28:33  <SpComb> or I could start hacking the cargodist sl stuff to provide saveload compatibility of some kind... eh
23:28:35  <Rubidium> SpComb: but what's the point if it's savegame incompatible? You're better probably off picking 'stable nightlies' every once and while and base on that
23:29:45  <SpComb> stable nightly, is that what you call the rev that fonso occasionally chooses to merge his cargodist against? :)
23:30:11  <Rubidium> no, that's just whatever's on top when he does it
23:30:25  <SpComb> indeed
23:30:38  <SpComb> and trunk nightly is whatever happens to be HEAD at 18:00 GMT or whatever
23:30:58  <Rubidium> 20:00 'Amsterdam'-time
23:31:14  <Rubidium> i.e. 20:00 CET / 20:00 CEST depending on whether DST is in effect
23:31:28  <Rubidium> (in effect in Amsterdam that is)
23:31:45  <Rubidium> we don't follow the USA's DST stuff
23:31:47  <SpComb> pfft, you should fix it to UTC :)
23:32:13  <orudge> hmm, my openttd SSH session is set to UTC, at least
23:32:17  <orudge> and I don't think I manually tweaked it
23:32:18  <orudge> so that's something
23:32:37  <Rubidium> the server is fully in UTC :)
23:32:38  * orudge runs all his servers on UTC, even the ones that are presently in UTC-6
23:33:03  <SpComb> Zulu time
23:33:06  <Rubidium> only the time the CF is started is 'under influence' of DST
23:33:25  <SpComb> how bizarre
23:35:11  <SpComb> but windows builds of random patches is a sad little world
23:35:31  <Rubidium> well... it did it that way before the new compile farm so we kept the behaviour
23:35:34  <SpComb> always a little problematic and crappy
23:35:58  <Rubidium> SpComb: be happy you haven't encountered MSVC2010 yet
23:36:22  <SpComb> apart from Error: Success dialogs?
23:38:28  <Rubidium> you need to 'physically' yank win64.asm from the project to compile win32, otherwise it wants to link win64.obj into the 32 bits openttd. Excluding it from 'build' works fine, except during linking... Furthermore yanking it our means that you can't compile 64 bits builds with the same solution.
23:39:22  <SpComb> sounds like a bug of some kind
23:39:40  <SpComb> don't you have separate configurations for 32/64 -bit?
23:39:42  <Rubidium> oh... and directx and the platform sdk needs to be installed in a particular order, otherwise it fails during compilation. That makes upgrading your working 2008 to 2010 upgrade yield a broken install
23:40:03  <Rubidium> SpComb: yes, the configuations exclude files from builds under certain circumstances
23:40:24  <SpComb> i.e. the win64.asm goes into objs/Release/Win64/... and the win32.asm goes into objs/Release/Win32/...
23:40:38  <SpComb> assuming it's a generated file
23:40:38  <Rubidium> SpComb: there is no win32.asm
23:41:06  <Rubidium> just when linking the 32 bits binary it wants win64.obj which it didn't generate because win64.asm is excluded from the build
23:41:26  <Rubidium> hmm... what else did I have
23:41:34  <orudge> it's ugly, but could you possibly just do an #ifdef WIN64 in the win64.asm and include it in both projects? Hopefully, of course, MS will fix the bug instead ;)
23:41:57  <Rubidium> oh yes, installing 2010 seems to have broken MSVC's capability to do something sane with crash.dmps
23:42:04  <SpComb> not familiar enough with MSVC - I've mostly just had the crash-course point-and-click until it builds the damn thing introduction to it :P
23:42:13  <Rubidium> I am SO happy I first made a copy of the .vdi before installing MSVC 2010
23:42:15  <SpComb> (outside of OpenTTD)
23:42:48  <SpComb> (mostly with Windows Mobile, in fact)
23:43:20  <orudge> I'd suggest you report these bugs to MS at least, if you haven't already - if nobody reports them, nobody is likely to fix them either :(
23:43:45  <Rubidium> orudge: I already reported the first "error" I got
23:43:53  <orudge> ah, fair enough
23:43:55  <Rubidium> orudge:
23:44:05  <orudge> heh
23:44:08  <orudge> how curious\
23:44:37  <Rubidium> given that installing MSVC2010 successfully is considered an error, I reckon working fine is an error too
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23:46:12  <Rubidium> then I'm also not very happy with Microsoft's choice to remove the global include path configuration stuff
23:46:46  <__ln> wtf, they've done that?
23:46:47  <PeterT> they removed that?!
23:46:49  <Rubidium> that means you have to set the include path stuff for each solution... and ofcourse we can't do that globally because that would break for lots of people that don't install stuff in default locations
23:46:52  <PeterT> wtf, why?
23:47:06  <PeterT> f that, I'm not updating
23:48:18  <Rubidium> though removing the global include path stuff works fine for corporate environments where they can just force everything to be installed the same, it doesn't quite help open source projects
23:49:01  <Rubidium> so Microsoft seems to be expanding on their path to "make stuff worse" (in my opinion)
23:49:02  <glx> btw there's no "express" version yet
23:49:39  <Rubidium> there's no 'stable' either
23:49:47  <__ln> i think we've been successfully using MSVC2010 beta at work on a project that relies on global include paths... gotta check tomorrow what's going on.
23:50:01  <glx> x64 in 2008 express is already a little pain to get (but it's doable)
23:50:04  <orudge> "Oh yeah, to change the global include path, you have to go to the property manager (I never even knew it existed), open a build configuration and open Microsoft.Cpp.Win32.user. Inside of that are the include and lib directories which all projects inherit. Well, some of them, there's more added to that but I can't find them."
23:50:08  <orudge> that does sound rather irritating
23:50:50  <PeterT> honestly, I see no point in making a new guide on the wiki for the 2010 version
23:51:01  <Rubidium> yup... *somewhere* the directx and platform SDK includes are added, but I can't find it *anywhere* in the GUI
23:51:03  <PeterT> just tell people to get 2008 express
23:51:26  <Rubidium> as such for the 'noob' there is no way to change the include order of them to fix the compile failure due to the wrong install order
23:51:52  <glx> PeterT: no need to say anything about MSVC 2010 on the wiki when it's still a beta
23:52:07  <PeterT> Even when it isn't a beta
23:52:40  <glx> things "may" change with the stable version
23:53:37  <Rubidium> so I reckon it's somewhere in the registry, which ofcourse is fun
23:54:09  <Rubidium> especially when there's a MSVC express too, which doesn't share the registry 'path' with the non-express versions (like it does(not) now)
23:54:38  <Rubidium> not to mention WoW64 and such
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