Log for #openttd on 2nd February 2010:
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00:00:12  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
00:00:19  *** Tennel [~Tennel@] has quit [Quit: leaving]
00:01:39  <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: yes, that was an ad hoc extension
00:01:56  *** Penda [] has quit [Quit: Penda]
00:03:28  <Zuu> Good night
00:03:32  *** Zuu [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
00:04:10  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:05:26  *** Tennel [~Tennel@] has joined #openttd
00:05:34  <NekoMaster> hmm
00:05:36  <NekoMaster> what now?
00:08:21  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: why does your log replace "ss" with "ss"?
00:08:42  <NekoMaster> Um, doesnt that symbol mean ss?
00:08:50  <JVassie> yep
00:09:01  <JVassie> but why not use "ss"?
00:09:12  <NekoMaster> so... Grosser would be Grosser
00:09:29  <Eddi|zuHause> NekoMaster: yes, but that is not the point
00:09:29  <JVassie> Strasse = Strasse
00:09:32  <JVassie> etc
00:10:30  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: curious, it does?
00:11:11  <SpComb> hmm
00:11:27  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: yeah, just check the few lines i posted above
00:11:28  <NekoMaster> The reson why everyone doesn't use ss for ss is because not every one has that on their keyboard
00:11:44  *** Rubix`` [] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: 540 seconds]
00:11:52  <NekoMaster> I have a Standard USA Media KeyBoard with a Euro sign on the 5 along with %
00:11:52  <PeterT> I doubt that's the reason
00:11:59  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: looks like an irssi feature
00:12:34  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... so what does it do with ????
00:12:36  <NekoMaster> well Im not going to type in the ALT+NumKey code every time I need to do a ss
00:13:11  <Eddi|zuHause> ... apparently it replaces them with "???"
00:13:51  <NekoMaster> those just show you have to pronounce those letters differntly
00:14:11  <NekoMaster> French and Spanish have thouse, amongst other languages
00:14:47  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:15:07  <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause joins and leaves too often...
00:15:12  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
00:15:15  <SpComb> 02:14 term_charset = ANSI_X3.4-1968
00:15:20  <SpComb> I wonder how the hell I managed to do that
00:15:23  <__ln__> does this mean the whole logs of all time have been translitterated by accident?
00:15:25  <NekoMaster> um, more like his connection died to offten
00:15:25  <Eddi|zuHause> haha :p
00:15:35  <SpComb> __ln__: not of all time, no
00:15:40  <NekoMaster> *dies
00:15:48  <SpComb> Àöe
00:16:23  <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause: Why do you join so often?
00:16:59  <__ln__> PeterT: please learn to read.
00:17:11  <PeterT> __ln__: Did I ask you?
00:17:19  *** Rubix`` [] has joined #openttd
00:17:31  <NekoMaster> If you look at the message when he leaves, it says (Remote host closed the connection)
00:17:45  <NekoMaster> rather then (Quit: Leaving)
00:17:51  <PeterT> So it's based on his crappy connection?
00:17:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't join more often than i leave...
00:17:56  <NekoMaster> yeah
00:18:03  <SpComb> terminal's a little weird still... invoking screen's utf8 magic "fixes" it
00:18:24  <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause: Eddi|zuHause couldn't decide whether to stay or go. 2639 joins during this reporting period!
00:18:29  <PeterT> from the stats page
00:18:32  <SpComb> I once tired to read screen's source code, for the utf8 bits... I couldn't make heads or tails of the code
00:18:33  <NekoMaster> Wow
00:19:23  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: how many days is that?
00:20:23  <Eddi|zuHause> unless i have really bad connection, it the per-day ratio should be 1+epsilon
00:21:33  <SpComb> bah, seems the encodings have been broken for a while
00:22:04  <SpComb> probably since the first reboot of SpBot
00:23:19  <NekoMaster> hmm
00:23:33  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 2639/1274
00:23:33  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 2.07142857143
00:23:34  <SpComb> there's a cron @reboot that boots up screen + irssi, I assume that runs with some weird "terminal"
00:23:51  <PeterT> @calc 123456789/987654321
00:24:33  <NekoMaster> @calc 1*100/2
00:24:33  <DorpsGek> NekoMaster: 50
00:24:34  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: like i said, on average, it's not that bad...
00:24:36  <NekoMaster> lol
00:24:46  <NekoMaster> @calc 1F to C
00:24:46  <DorpsGek> NekoMaster: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
00:24:48  <NekoMaster> lol
00:24:56  <PeterT> I got it then
00:25:00  <PeterT> hmm DorpsGek ignores me
00:25:05  * PeterT fires up ChatZilla
00:25:13  <NekoMaster> Im on Chatzilla
00:25:24  <PeterT> Metal or Award :-P
00:25:30  <NekoMaster> How about pie
00:25:32  <NekoMaster> :3
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00:26:49  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: thanks for pointing it out, though
00:26:57  <Eddi|zuHause> PS: these stats clearly support my point that the day does not end on midnight
00:27:24  <PeterT_> @calc 123456789/987654321
00:27:24  <DorpsGek> PeterT_: 0.124999998861
00:27:30  *** PeterT_ [] has quit []
00:27:39  <NekoMaster> no, the official day in your time zone ends at midnight, but your day doesnt end till you goto sleep
00:27:56  <Eddi|zuHause> is it just me, or does ignore-circumvention warrant a ban?
00:27:56  <SpComb> tomorrow -> to-morrow -> next morning
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00:28:20  <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause: It was completely unfair to ignore me
00:28:58  <SpComb> PeterT: do you *really* need DorpsGek? I can make do quite fine without...
00:29:11  <PeterT> SpComb: For @seen, yes
00:29:15  <Eddi|zuHause> NekoMaster: the stats clearly say that 6AM is the time of least activity
00:29:27  <SpComb> PeterT: and @calc?
00:29:34  <PeterT> not necesarry, no
00:29:51  <SpComb> PeterT: then perhaps you see why you might have been blacklisted..
00:30:07  <PeterT> SpComb: I'm not the only one who uses @calc
00:30:09  <PeterT> SpComb: Ok
00:30:25  <PeterT> SpComb: Don't you love being highlighted three times when you know I'm already talking to you? :-)
00:31:37  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: and you REALLY wonder why people ignore you? :p
00:32:16  * SpComb creates a new ticket in his issue tracker on this conversation and assigns PeterT to the nosy list
00:32:30  <NekoMaster> : o
00:32:36  <SpComb> wouldn't it be fun if your issue tracker was integrated with IRC, so every time someone said something on IRC, you'd get an email?
00:33:02  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i want to get 10000 emails per day :p
00:33:11  <NekoMaster> SpComb: no, cuase then your inbox would get so full
00:33:15  <PeterT> that would be the greatest fun in the world
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00:33:25  <NekoMaster> especially for someone like me who hardly checks my mail
00:33:48  <PeterT> then it would hardly be a problem for you
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00:34:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> ok... that was a real disconnect, and i forgot to set the display variable again...
00:35:57  <NekoMaster> Awesome! Locomotion works in wine!
00:36:01  <NekoMaster> on Ubuntu!
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00:37:05  <Ammler> some old windows games might work better with wine that on Windows7
00:37:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> doesn't surprise me
00:37:13  <NekoMaster> Well
00:37:15  <NekoMaster> before
00:37:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> wine has become really good the last couple of years
00:37:25  <NekoMaster> LoMo wouldn't work in Wine
00:37:33  <NekoMaster> in a virtual machine
00:37:52  <NekoMaster> it did back then, but recenlty not anymore
00:37:57  <NekoMaster> *recently
00:38:51  <NekoMaster> Anyways
00:38:58  <NekoMaster> #locomotion
00:39:48  <PeterT> empty
00:40:17  *** NekoMaster [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20100106054534]]
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00:40:40  <NekoMaster> Back
00:41:06  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:41:23  <PeterT> I missed you so much
00:41:32  <NekoMaster> so what now?
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00:52:08  <NekoMaster> hmm
00:52:09  <Diablo-D3> okay so
00:52:17  <Diablo-D3> I take pikka's basic industries
00:52:37  <Diablo-D3> bigger depots, av8, metro track, egrvts, and industrial stations renewal
00:52:45  <NekoMaster> What?
00:52:57  <Diablo-D3> and I think I should have an openttd thats fun to play
00:53:07  <NekoMaster> What are you talking about?
00:53:11  <KenjiE20|LT> metro and no 2cc?
00:53:18  <Diablo-D3> KenjiE20|LT: should I throw 2cc in?
00:53:26  <Diablo-D3> Im trying to get the most out of ottd without adding shit
00:53:31  <KenjiE20|LT> well metro is mildly pointless without
00:53:35  <NekoMaster> yeah
00:53:36  <NekoMaster> true
00:53:54  <NekoMaster> since 2cc set replaces the Monorails with Metro COmmuters
00:54:05  <NekoMaster> Subway\El Trains
00:54:34  <Diablo-D3> so what else should I add?
00:54:50  <KenjiE20|LT> I'm not you
00:55:12  <Diablo-D3> we need some sort of standardized awesome super-grf.
00:55:17  <NekoMaster> : \
00:55:34  <KenjiE20|LT> see my previous statement as to why that's a bad idea
00:55:38  <roboboy> bye
00:55:43  <NekoMaster> bye
00:56:48  <PeterT> bye
00:57:55  <Diablo-D3> I'm mildly interested in heqs
00:58:01  <NekoMaster> why?
00:58:08  <NekoMaster> HEQs has REAL dump trucks
00:58:11  <Diablo-D3> seems to make road vehicles interesting for once
00:58:32  <NekoMaster> not a Pick up truck or a Euro Style Truck with a hopper trailer
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00:58:36  <NekoMaster> theres also logging trucks
00:58:49  <Diablo-D3> WOAH WTF
00:58:51  <Diablo-D3> NekoMaster: dude
00:58:54  <NekoMaster> what?
00:58:57  <Diablo-D3>
00:59:03  <Diablo-D3> I was reading that post when you said that
00:59:07  <NekoMaster> lol
00:59:30  <__ln__>
00:59:37  <NekoMaster> I can't wail for BANDIT to get to the release stage
00:59:41  <NekoMaster> or, at least nightlies
00:59:48  <Diablo-D3> __ln__: at least it doesnt have neko ears
01:00:07  <NekoMaster> Hmm?
01:00:27  <NekoMaster> whats wrong with cat ears?
01:00:50  <Diablo-D3> nothing, its kind of cute
01:00:51  <SpComb> hmm... I need to publish a git repo
01:00:59  <NekoMaster> Sure...
01:01:00  <Diablo-D3> it'd be nifty if ottd could do the sprite animations
01:01:05  <NekoMaster> it does
01:01:11  <NekoMaster> Steam
01:01:23  <NekoMaster> Smoke from Power Plant
01:01:33  <NekoMaster> NARS has animated steam locos
01:01:34  <Diablo-D3> yeah, but could it make the cat ears pop out?
01:01:39  <NekoMaster> lol
01:01:43  <NekoMaster> maybe, with proper code
01:02:01  <Diablo-D3>
01:02:03  <Diablo-D3> zooooomj
01:02:16  <Diablo-D3> btw, you know whats wrong with the way some of these grfs work?
01:02:23  <NekoMaster> what?
01:02:24  <Diablo-D3> 2cc replaces monorail instead of adding another type
01:03:12  <NekoMaster> Yeah
01:03:19  <NekoMaster> so
01:03:38  <NekoMaster> It'd be weird to have Metros and Monos
01:03:48  <Diablo-D3> well, mono and maglev should be combined
01:04:05  <NekoMaster> still weird
01:07:46  <Diablo-D3> actually
01:07:56  <Diablo-D3> it could be done how rails become electric
01:07:58  <Diablo-D3> just upgrade
01:08:38  <Diablo-D3> although it'd be interesting in hell to have "useless" eyecandy
01:08:46  <Eddi|zuHause> <Diablo-D3> 2cc replaces monorail instead of adding another type <-- that feature is currently in development
01:08:47  <Diablo-D3> s/in/as/
01:08:52  <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: ahh nice
01:09:24  <Diablo-D3> okay so, pikkindw, metro, isr, av8, bigger depots, egrvts, and 2cc
01:09:28  <Diablo-D3> anything else I should add?
01:09:46  <Eddi|zuHause> something about ships
01:09:54  <Eddi|zuHause> and newstations
01:10:10  <NekoMaster> FISH
01:10:11  <Diablo-D3> isr == industrial stations renewal
01:10:27  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, isr for industries, newstats for passengers
01:10:32  <Diablo-D3> ahh
01:10:32  <NekoMaster> Canadian Stations since they look like passenger stations
01:10:39  <NekoMaster> and work in all climates
01:11:11  <Eddi|zuHause> and if you play temperate, you can add the brick chain next to PBI
01:11:17  <NekoMaster> yeah
01:12:24  <Diablo-D3> blargh, bananas doesnt know enough
01:12:41  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, newstats is not on bananas
01:12:54  <Eddi|zuHause> like all other MB grfs
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01:12:57  <Diablo-D3> neither is pikkindw
01:13:03  <NekoMaster> FIRS is
01:13:05  <NekoMaster> and ECS
01:13:15  <Eddi|zuHause> generally, older grfs tend to be missing
01:13:30  <Diablo-D3> well, whats the recommended industry upgrade?
01:13:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i prefer PBI over ECS
01:14:09  <NekoMaster> I would like pbi more if there wasn't a strict limit
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01:14:14  <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: grfs missing from bananas are usually found via grfcrawler
01:14:19  <NekoMaster> I like ECS stock limits
01:14:26  <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: or the coop grf pack
01:14:47  <NekoMaster> the more a factory gets served the more it can handle
01:17:24  <SmatZ> until you hit the limit
01:17:45  <PeterT> SmatZ: Can I get a copy of your magic_bulldozer rcon patch please?
01:17:47  *** Chris_Booth [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:18:04  <SmatZ> PeterT: here it is
01:18:20  <PeterT> thanks SmatZ
01:18:43  <SmatZ> "force" changes singleplayer-only settings
01:18:52  <SmatZ> the saves & reloads the game, so it won't desync
01:18:56  <NekoMaster> whats the magic bulldozer patch for?
01:19:18  <SmatZ> *magic*
01:19:41  <NekoMaster> well, cant you jsut turn the cheat on if you want to use the magic bulldozer?
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01:19:58  <SmatZ> I guess, you can
01:20:01  <PeterT> not during the game, not during the game, you can't
01:20:27  <SmatZ> with that patch, server can enable/disable the cheat
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01:20:35  <PeterT> fail
01:20:48  <SmatZ> NekoMaster is full of fail
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01:20:56  <PeterT> really? you just met him
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01:22:02  <SmatZ> I know I have him in my "foes" list at tt-forums
01:22:10  <Eddi|zuHause> "just"?
01:22:19  <Eddi|zuHause> he has been around for at least a year
01:23:18  <Eddi|zuHause> mister "i overclocked my pc and now it crashes when playing youtube videos"
01:23:19  <PeterT> SmatZ: I see no point in a foes list, I'm going to read his posts anyway
01:23:28  <PeterT> I'm not goign to stop reading posts just because someone is a noob
01:24:06  <PeterT> SmatZ: What is this diff?
01:24:21  <SmatZ> PeterT: forbids building of airports
01:24:28  <SmatZ> server-side
01:24:35  <PeterT> ok
01:24:48  <PeterT> is there a patch that only allows a configurable number of airports?
01:25:49  <SmatZ> with "town noise limits", different formula is used for limiting number of airports per town
01:26:37  <PeterT> no, I need a specific setting
01:26:41  <Diablo-D3> hmmm
01:26:44  <PeterT> I'll try to see if I can update the goulp patch
01:26:48  <Diablo-D3> okay so
01:26:59  <PeterT> yes
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01:27:07  <Diablo-D3> new stations, av8, bigger depots, egrvts, isr, metro track sets, 2cc aaaand
01:27:59  <PeterT> yes
01:28:03  <PeterT> WAS
01:28:13  <Diablo-D3> and fish
01:28:22  <PeterT> FISH yes
01:28:34  <Eddi|zuHause> why WAS if you have av8?
01:28:44  <PeterT> WAS has liveries?
01:29:51  <Diablo-D3> so now I think I have super-ottd
01:30:12  <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: you miss the most important one
01:30:14  <PeterT> get CD + IS
01:30:16  <Eddi|zuHause> stolentrees
01:30:36  <PeterT> but they are stolen!
01:30:41  <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: actually if Im going to do that, I might as well do 32bit
01:30:55  <Eddi|zuHause> and i usually use dutch catenary
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01:31:12  <Diablo-D3> Im not looking to replace everything in the game
01:31:22  <Diablo-D3> I just want to usefully increase the features
01:32:51  <Diablo-D3> ecs looks too complex, btw
01:33:19  <Diablo-D3> PeterT: what is cd and is?
01:33:31  <PeterT> CargoDist and Infrastructure Sharing
01:33:41  <PeterT> I guess you can't really use Infra Sharing
01:33:44  <PeterT> unless you play multiplayer
01:34:02  <Diablo-D3> what is cargodist?
01:34:42  <Eddi|zuHause> my current grf list goes like this: Alpine Climate [mod], DBSet, DBSet_ECS [mod for PBI], NewStations, ISR, generic buffer stops, GermanRV, NewShips, NH Depot, av8, PBI, Brick Chain, Total Bridge Renewal, Light-rail/Tramtracks, HEQS, German Town Names, Temperate Foundations
01:35:04  <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: they're patches, not grfs
01:35:12  <Diablo-D3> ahh.
01:35:17  * Diablo-D3 isnt adding patches.
01:35:37  <Eddi|zuHause> to that list go the catenary and the trees as static grfs
01:35:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: TBRS you should check out
01:36:09  <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: and possibly Swedish Houses
01:36:27  <Diablo-D3> is there an alternative to new stations?
01:36:31  <SmatZ> DBSet_ECS [mod for PBI] <== :-)
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01:37:03  <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: it's basically a changed bit so you can transport clay
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01:37:36  <Diablo-D3> I'd like to grab things that are still being developed
01:37:40  <Eddi|zuHause> and Alpine is modded to skip the industry part, and allow houses to accept food
01:40:50  <Diablo-D3> so wait, is dbset_ecs related to ecs?
01:43:20  <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: it's a small hack, to make DBSet vehicles able to carry the ECS cargos
01:43:39  <Diablo-D3> ahh.
01:43:47  <Diablo-D3> dbset looks kind of redundant though
01:43:53  <Diablo-D3> if I already have all this other stuff
01:43:56  <SmatZ> DBSet_ECS [PBI mod] is hacked hack :-)
01:44:08  <Eddi|zuHause> alas, clay is in the brick chain but not an ECS cargo
01:44:55  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, you shouldn't mix 2cc and dbset
01:45:14  <Diablo-D3> so should I add the pbi brick chain?
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01:46:06  <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't really matter... adds a few more cargos
01:46:42  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you want to try "simple" PBI first, if you get along with the stockpiles and limited ressources
01:47:10  <Diablo-D3> I think Ill leave new stations out
01:47:23  <Diablo-D3> btw, why is ISR so screwy
01:47:34  <Diablo-D3> I cant easily delete new stations without nuking the whole station complex
01:47:47  <Eddi|zuHause> try the "r" key ;)
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01:49:34  <Eddi|zuHause> but newstats and isr really complement each other
01:49:59  <Diablo-D3> yeah, but do I have any other choices?
01:50:11  <Eddi|zuHause> there are plenty of station grfs
01:50:33  <Eddi|zuHause> but imho those are the most useful/nice
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01:50:57  <Eddi|zuHause> you can add as many station grfs as you like
01:50:59  <Diablo-D3> someone needs to add these new ones to banannas
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01:51:35  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a canadian station set, czech station set, japanese station set
01:51:40  <Eddi|zuHause> some generic station sets
01:54:01  <Eddi|zuHause> station sets are the least dangerous to experiment with
01:54:44  <Eddi|zuHause> adding sets is allowed, removing might be dangerous
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01:59:57  <Diablo-D3> hrm something conflicts with egrvts I think
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02:01:25  <Eddi|zuHause> to use egrvts and heqs you have to use the "allow multiple vehicle sets" switch
02:02:22  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if that is enabled by default
02:02:44  <Diablo-D3> where is that exactly?
02:03:19  <Eddi|zuHause> somewhere in advanced settings
02:03:27  <Eddi|zuHause> probably under vehicles
02:04:40  <Diablo-D3> ....
02:05:01  <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: it has enable multiple newgrf engine sets
02:05:33  <Eddi|zuHause> good, then heqs and egrvts should not conflict
02:05:54  <Diablo-D3> aargh now I know why its not working
02:05:59  <Diablo-D3> I dont have heqs enabled
02:15:09  <Diablo-D3> okay so
02:15:36  <PeterT> have you started your godly game yet, Diablo-D3
02:15:41  <PeterT> ?
02:15:42  * Diablo-D3 tries something simple by building a train line between forest and and mill
02:16:14  <PeterT> start with pax
02:16:16  <PeterT> they never fail
02:16:25  <PeterT> plus, you can build nice station art with pax stations
02:16:27  <PeterT> dutch stations is great
02:16:32  <Diablo-D3> pax?
02:16:40  <PeterT> passengers/mail
02:16:44  <Diablo-D3> ahh
02:16:48  <Diablo-D3> I sometimes too
02:16:48  <PeterT> ;-)
02:16:51  <Diablo-D3> depends how much I hate myself
02:17:11  <PeterT> Lol
02:17:41  <Diablo-D3> hrm, theres lots of tiles in this isr pack
02:17:57  <Diablo-D3> why isnt this more easily automated
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02:23:15  <Diablo-D3> hmm
02:23:16  <Diablo-D3> crap!
02:23:35  <PeterT> what?
02:24:11  <Diablo-D3> what ISR station do I want to offload trees?
02:27:04  <Diablo-D3> wood loading station doesnt look like the right one
02:28:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i usually use empty stations and add a few piles for raw materials
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02:37:52  <Diablo-D3> urgh
02:38:00  <Diablo-D3> I cant remember how to efficiently do station entrances
02:38:19  <PeterT> with efificiency
02:39:18  <Diablo-D3> no, I mean which lights do I want
02:39:47  <Diablo-D3> white at entrance, yellow at exit, sideways yellow at entrance to station lines?
02:40:45  <PeterT> you want PBS
02:40:53  <Diablo-D3> pbs?
02:40:54  <PeterT>
02:41:00  <PeterT> @diable-d3
02:41:13  <Diablo-D3> argh not more patches
02:41:29  <PeterT> it's part of OpenTTD, Diablo-D3
02:41:34  <Diablo-D3> ahh
02:43:48  <Diablo-D3> PeterT: so it just uses the tiles it needs instead of the whole junction block?
02:44:14  <PeterT> I don't really know what you mean
02:44:16  <PeterT> no
02:44:23  <PeterT> but multiple trains can enter the block
02:45:00  <Diablo-D3> the pathfinder marks tiles it needs to traverse ahead of time to prevent train crashes
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02:46:35  <Diablo-D3> yeah it seems to do that
02:46:37  <Diablo-D3> nifty
02:47:38  <PeterT> yeah it's a cool feature
02:48:21  <Diablo-D3> so I only need these at the start of junctions?
02:49:24  <PeterT> depends on the junction
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04:10:22  <NekoMaster> hey guys
04:18:59  <DaleStan> planetmaker: I added Action0RailTypes to the wiki structure. Are there other pages I need to add?
04:26:02  <NekoMaster> om nom nom nom
04:26:05  <NekoMaster> beer
04:26:40  <DaleStan> peter1138: Can we get TextIDs in action 0 instead of strings, please?
04:29:17  <NekoMaster> beer
04:29:19  <NekoMaster> i dirnk it
04:29:23  <NekoMaster> So
04:29:29  <NekoMaster> i hear you can have new rail types
04:29:33  <NekoMaster> is that true
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06:37:27  <Terkhen> good morning
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08:09:43  <planetmaker> DaleStan, thanks. For now there's not directly an additional page which is needed afaik. Though at least OpenTTD's source code suggests that there are already reserved features 0D and 0E. Not sure whether it might make sense to add dummy pages for them already. Maybe airports as it's being worked upon actively
08:10:25  <planetmaker> and good morning #openttd :-)
08:11:38  <planetmaker> peter1138, I guess DaleStan is right about the texts strings for rail types: StringIDs are translatable via action 04, strings in action0 are not.
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08:30:12  <peter1138> planetmaker, you guess? what?
08:30:57  <peter1138> 04:26 < DaleStan> peter1138: Can we get TextIDs in action 0 instead of strings,  please?
08:31:00  <peter1138> ?
08:31:03  <planetmaker> replacing propertiess 09, 0000AAA, 0B, 0CCC with W aas stringID
08:31:19  <peter1138> oh
08:31:40  <planetmaker> sorry keyboard failure here.
08:32:40  <peter1138> but they are W
08:32:51  <peter1138> not my fault you wrote the spec wrong
08:32:51  <planetmaker> oh. Then I got it wrong ;-)
08:32:59  <planetmaker> tralalala. Sorry
08:33:30  <planetmaker> DaleStan, don't worry, they ARE stringIDs. I just cannot    read source code properlyyyy
08:33:34  <planetmaker> :S
08:33:48  <planetmaker> wth is    happening with my keyboard? :-(
08:34:03  <peter1138> you have a realtime app misbehaving?
08:34:10  <peter1138> (pulseaudio?)
08:34:32  <planetmaker> I should not... but...
08:34:55  <peter1138> i had that with lmms' "jack fixes"
08:35:07  <peter1138> totally broken code ran a spinlock in RT code...
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08:39:16  <planetmaker> peter1138, would you actually rather write "rail type" or "railtype"?
08:39:37  <peter1138> *shrug*
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08:44:50  <Diablo-D3> peter1138: people simply shouldnt be allowed to write RT code
08:45:15  <peter1138> not bad RT code, anyway
08:45:32  <Diablo-D3> theres nothing like lint for RT code
08:45:47  <Diablo-D3> actually, maybe RTgrind would be a better idea
08:45:48  <peter1138> there are some tools that check for common problems at runtime
08:45:49  <peter1138> but...
08:46:00  <peter1138> a spinlock in RT? bwahaha
08:46:16  <Diablo-D3> well, RT in general is a bad idea
08:46:39  <planetmaker> Diablo-D3, I know quite a few occasions where RT code is quite needed.
08:46:40  <peter1138> it's audio code, you need RT or high latency
08:46:48  <planetmaker> But not on a desktop PC
08:46:49  <Diablo-D3> sanely written scheds combined with priority boosting fix this
08:46:51  <planetmaker> in an office
08:47:08  <Diablo-D3> peter1138: thats not true
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08:47:30  <peter1138> sure, you're the expert on everything, i know.
08:47:40  <Diablo-D3> using audio hardware that isnt absolute shit has a much larger impact on audio problems
08:47:54  <peter1138> no, that's a driver issue
08:48:04  <Diablo-D3> no, most hardware cant use more than 2 periods.
08:48:45  <peter1138> ah, so your vote is for higher latency
08:49:01  <Diablo-D3> no, shorter periods with more periods.
08:49:17  <peter1138> my crappy intel hdas can cope
08:49:50  <Diablo-D3> half the period length but double periods amazingly fixes a lot of underun problems
08:50:09  <Diablo-D3> peter1138: btw
08:50:15  <Diablo-D3> try the -rt2 patches for the kernel
08:50:30  <Diablo-D3> they largely unfucked the most retarded shit in the kernel
08:51:00  <planetmaker> sure, I go and mess with the kernel in production systems...
08:51:19  <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: -rt2 is going to be moved into mainline at some point
08:51:25  <Noldo> planetmaker: in production systems you just cope with it :)
08:51:26  <Diablo-D3> probably .35 or .36
08:51:26  <planetmaker> so?
08:51:43  <Diablo-D3> so if you're not upgrading software to fix bugs, thats your own problem ;)
08:52:25  <peter1138> you still need RT, and therefore RT-safe code
08:52:27  <planetmaker> ah, sure. But you obviously don't know the difference between a test system and a production system
08:52:38  <peter1138> planetmaker, sure he does, Diablo-D3 knows everything
08:52:40  <Diablo-D3> production != never ever changes
08:53:05  <Diablo-D3> peter1138: -rt2 got rid of the big lock, and interrupts dont murder performance anymore
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08:54:11  <Diablo-D3> for example, on envy24 soundcards, use the shortest period length with a lot of periods
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08:54:56  <Diablo-D3> your sound wont skip (for non-complex values of sound), your sound app will use 100% of the cpu time (where it may have used less than 1% before), and your entire system will slow to a crawl
08:55:04  <Diablo-D3> but your sound wont skip no matter how hard you try.
08:55:15  <Diablo-D3> this is due to an unfortunate kernel issue.
08:56:26  <Diablo-D3> -rt2 it will still consume a large amount of cpu time, but the rest of your system continues to function fine
08:56:55  <peter1138> right, the reason not to use tiny periods is the system chokes on the interrupts
08:57:04  <peter1138> so you can get less done
08:57:13  <peter1138> compromises, heh
09:00:14  <Diablo-D3> peter1138: yes, but that was at 128 periods and less than 1ms period length
09:00:42  <Diablo-D3> Im not actually saying go do that
09:00:48  <peter1138> no, that's pretty useless
09:01:06  <Diablo-D3> Im just saying the linux kernel sucks and trying to slap RT onto a bad sched design will make it worse
09:01:08  <peter1138> and still high latency
09:01:17  <Diablo-D3> -rt2 has removed most of the reason to use RT
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09:01:27  <Diablo-D3> and it does provide an actual working RT prio.
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09:02:12  <planetmaker> <-- I guess Pikkas question would be nice, if they were answered in the newgrf wiki straight away :-)
09:03:00  <planetmaker> I especially wondered also about the meaning of property 0D
09:03:53  <peter1138> planetmaker,
09:04:30  <Diablo-D3> btw, there is still a slightly annoying problem in openttd
09:04:47  <Diablo-D3> tracks at an angle cant go up/down hillsides at an angle
09:05:29  <planetmaker> peter1138, so I can assume that that wiki page is correct?
09:06:44  <peter1138> yes, although the action 3/2/1 stuff isn't in yes, and the action 3 layout documentation is not complete
09:06:54  <peter1138> oh
09:06:57  <peter1138> except property 51
09:06:58  <peter1138> er, 15
09:06:59  <peter1138> Hmm
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09:08:03  <planetmaker> ok, then I might adopt the newgrf wiki later today.
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09:14:28  <peter1138> s/yes,/yet,/
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09:21:38  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: make up your mind .. in or out :p
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09:49:04  <Eddi|zuHause> hm...
09:49:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand it
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10:15:00  <planetmaker> ah, mb acid as usual. Criticism without being constructive.
10:15:15  <Noldo> where?
10:15:27  <planetmaker> forums
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10:17:53  <planetmaker>
10:19:27  <TrueBrain> OWH NO! You didn't follow the rules! NOW YOU AHVE TO PAY! MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
10:19:32  * TrueBrain hugs planetmaker
10:19:34  <Noldo> thanks
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10:19:42  <planetmaker> :-)
10:19:46  <peter1138> most of the missing information has been on the ottd wiki page for ages, mind you ;p
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10:20:41  <planetmaker> yes. I know (now). Despite it's IMO quite obvious that that wiki page is kinda WIP...
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10:27:46  <peter1138> gah, ttdpatch's wiki software is crap
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11:21:12  <peter1138> hm
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11:34:17  <Diablo-D3> OKAY
11:34:40  <Diablo-D3> and now Im going to bed
11:35:20  <Eddi|zuHause> good midday ;)
11:37:02  <peter1138> hah
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11:48:49  <Eddi|zuHause> random idea: the steepness of slopes should be dependent on the height...
11:49:13  <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. from level 1 to level 2, it should be 3%, but from level 10 to level 11 it should be 8%
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11:49:37  <planetmaker> why would you want that?
11:50:09  <planetmaker> That's anything but intuitive - nor does it add to the game. Or can you clearify the reasons why it seems to you a good idea?
11:50:38  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: slopes in flat land are often part of junctions, etc. but slopes in the hills are to simulate hilly landscape
11:51:23  <Ammler> you could "simulate" that by using 2 slopes in a row
11:51:25  <Eddi|zuHause> so to climb a bridge ramp in a station is often less problematic than climbing an uphill slope
11:51:44  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: yes, but you quickly run out of slopes that way
11:51:58  <peter1138> win 22
11:53:34  <Eddi|zuHause> and i'm not confident that the "more height levels" patch gets anywhere near trunk...
11:53:37  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, ok, but then a junction in the highlands would have different slopes from one near the coast
11:53:42  <planetmaker> Doesn't sound intuitive
11:54:00  <planetmaker> Then rather a two slopes in a row are considered steeper.
11:54:14  <devilsadvocate> what does it mean when it says 'autorenew failed : fixed consist" ?
11:54:16  <planetmaker> But... I wouldn't like it either. It's a hidden feature.
11:54:45  <Eddi|zuHause> devilsadvocate: means that the newgrf is too complicated for autoreplace to figure out
11:55:20  <devilsadvocate> Eddi|zuHause, but i havent set a auto replace on this :\
11:55:28  * devilsadvocate checks if he did it my accident
11:55:35  <Rubidium> then maybe it's autorenew
11:55:54  <Eddi|zuHause> same difference ;)
11:56:07  <devilsadvocate> oops. my bad
11:56:25  <devilsadvocate> but autorenew shouldnt have the problem, right? its just making a copy
11:56:44  <devilsadvocate> as  long as the stuff is still available, of course
11:57:05  <Rubidium> devilsadvocate: then you haven't seen the world of subcargoes yet
11:57:26  <devilsadvocate> anyway, now that my maglevs will stop blocking every track they can find trying to get to a cargo...
11:57:31  <Rubidium> and wagons of one subcargo type can attach to an engine and not another subcargo type
11:57:56  <devilsadvocate> Rubidium, but autorenew is just _copying_ what i already did
11:58:10  <devilsadvocate> which by definition should work
11:58:45  <devilsadvocate> i've been massaging autoreplace to work by grouping trains by cargo and issuing replace orders per group
11:59:12  <Rubidium> devilsadvocate: no, it's not copying
11:59:44  <Rubidium> as I said: subcargos are a bitch
11:59:55  <devilsadvocate> :(
11:59:57  <Rubidium> e.g. you can define a subcargo to be only valid from 1920-1940
12:00:03  <devilsadvocate> ah
12:00:16  <Rubidium> and define for an engine to only allow wagons with that subcargo
12:00:20  <devilsadvocate> i havent messed with temporal cargoes yet
12:00:47  <Rubidium> now on autorenew the wagons get renewed, but they get another subcargo type and as such can't be attached to the engine
12:01:27  <Rubidium> or vice versa where the engine's subcargo type isn't available anymore and another subcargo (usually the default) is taken and it can't attach the wagons anymore
12:02:05  <devilsadvocate> hm
12:02:26  <Rubidium> anyhow, if you don't use NewGRFs that mess with subcargos or deprecation of wagons it works as if the vehicle is copied, so that might give you the idea
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12:03:23  <devilsadvocate> yeah, i can see how that can mess with things... i assumed cargoes are invariant and wagons always accept the same set of cargoes
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12:05:08  <Eddi|zuHause> boy are you naive and innocent :p
12:05:34  <Rubidium> it's all mb's fault :)
12:05:59  <Rubidium> or whoever thought it would be useful to deprecate subcargoes
12:06:16  <Rubidium> or make attachment of wagons depend on subcargoes
12:07:26  <Eddi|zuHause> the irony, he always complains that allowing multiple vehicle sets is a misfeature, but really the majority of misfeatures that are incompatible with this are his own creations ;)
12:07:59  <Rubidium> yeah, it's totally real to mix dbset vehicles with dutch trains
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12:12:41  <planetmaker> well. The most annoying thing is not complaining, but the complete lack of what actually is being complained about in detail, but giving murky hints that somewhere somehow one somewhat burried pages one might find already a half-sentence what he thinks might be better
12:14:35  <Rubidium> e.g. the for the NS ICL and ICK wagons should work perfectly fine for the DB
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12:15:09  <peter1138> planetmaker, i think he expects us to know what is wrong, because obviously he follows the spec and therefore it should be obvious
12:16:45  <Rubidium> especially the: "my vapourware NewGRF doesn't work" kind of reports are very useful
12:17:31  <planetmaker> the latter - as long as they're valid reports - are, well, interesting, but not the worst. But then, I don't have to deal with that ;-)
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12:17:39  <planetmaker> So I better don't judge ;-)
12:18:08  <Rubidium> just an example of the 'liveries' the ICL wagon run in the NL:,%20Wit%20met%20rood,%20blauw%20met%20wit%20en%20geel%20met%20blauw.html
12:19:58  <Eddi|zuHause> what's the second engine used for?
12:20:41  <Rubidium> I guess as cabs (they have to change direction quite often)
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12:21:14  <Rubidium> and the NS has stopped shunting trains 'in-service' a few years ago
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12:22:12  <Eddi|zuHause> and i'd presume a german cab wouldn't be compatible with the dutch engine ;)
12:22:47  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't seen a train without cab in a decade...
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12:24:07  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: actually, the German IC Amsterdam - Berlin doesn't have an engine/cab at the end; you can watch through the window in the door at the passed tracks
12:24:29  <Rubidium> and in Bad Bentheim they only change the engine
12:24:29  <peter1138> i only ever see DMUs
12:24:57  <planetmaker> Do they really change the engine still?
12:25:02  <Rubidium> planetmaker: yes
12:25:12  <planetmaker> crazy
12:26:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i thought all new engines are dual-system by now
12:27:46  <Rubidium> but the engines (in the NL) aren't that new
12:28:01  <Rubidium> early 1980s
12:28:19  <Rubidium> and a slightly newer model from the early 1990s
12:28:32  <thingwath> Dual-system engine is not that new concept :)
12:29:32  <Eddi|zuHause> thingwath: not new, but expensive and rare...
12:30:16  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... something screwed up badly...
12:30:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i moved a directory from A to B, suddenly it reports errors about "cannot rename XYZ", and after i hit "skip", it just deleted the old files without creating the new ones...
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12:36:37  * peter1138 ponders documenting railtype act3/2/1 a bit more ;P
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12:56:52  <devilsadvocate> they change the engines on all indian trains
13:01:36  <planetmaker> peter1138, good motion ;-)
13:01:40  <planetmaker> or notion?
13:01:42  <planetmaker> whatever.
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13:45:50  <planetmaker> peter1138, re railtypes: where is rail toolbar used (there where the track icons are). But where is main menu then? (prop. 09 vs. 0A)
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14:16:59  <Belugas> hello
14:18:35  <Ammler> bon jour
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14:23:38  <peter1138> planetmaker?
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14:25:27  <Belugas> planet maker
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14:37:20  <planetmaker> peter1138, my question was basically where exactly the main menu string is used ingame
14:37:41  <glx> in dropdown ?
14:37:56  <planetmaker> or what the difference to the rail type name is :-)
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14:39:20  <peter1138> i suggest a grep ;p
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14:46:12  <SpComb> is making .deb builds really worth it?
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14:48:38  <blathijs> SpComb: In what context?
14:49:13  <SpComb> OpenTTD
14:49:31  <SpComb> do you have a do a million different .deb's on different debian/ubuntu versions for it to be worth the effort?
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14:49:58  <SpComb> (that is,  patched/custom versions of OpenTTD)
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14:52:15  <peter1138> heh, mb has a new definition of documented
14:52:46  <planetmaker> what way? or where?
14:52:55  <Rubidium> when he knows it (or thinks he knows it) it's documented?
14:53:04  <TrueBrain> Rubidium goes home with the price
14:53:08  <planetmaker> well. That's the old one :-P
14:53:29  <TrueBrain> when it is implemented in TTDp! :p
14:54:08  <Rubidium> when it's used in mb's vapourware
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14:56:24  <Rubidium> SpComb: if you want 'support' for Ubuntu non-LTS releases, then yes you need a lot
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14:57:34  <peter1138> well, the interaction between train properties 05 and 19 wasn't mentioned at all.
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15:01:19  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... if i'm not sending back this computer soon, i'll be deaf...
15:03:23  <planetmaker> don't shout and cry that loud then, Eddi|zuHause ;-)
15:03:43  <Eddi|zuHause> you're not sitting next to this computer :p
15:03:58  <planetmaker> luckily, I guess.
15:04:09  <planetmaker> We once had in our office an SGI Onyx
15:04:18  <planetmaker> It's the same noise level as a vacuum cleaner
15:04:37  <Eddi|zuHause> but i just noticed that the DVD drive can read some DVDs that my old drive can't, so i started a rescue session...
15:05:21  <Eddi|zuHause> and now i'm shuffling around data from one external drive to another, to sort things properly
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15:22:12  <luckz> debian should just have a ttd-manager app (script) that grabs a random nightly build (or release one) and puts all the files in all the right places :R
15:23:18  <SpComb> unlikely to see that ever happen
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15:23:33  <SpComb> keep in mind that it's debian that disabled the automatic updates in, say, firefox
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15:24:34  <Ammler> SpComb: quite resonable or will you like to run FF as root?
15:24:45  <SpComb> well, also for their stable release
15:24:49  <Ammler> I guess, every distro disabled that
15:32:11  <planetmaker> uhm... Ammler ? SuSE updates that also all automatically. But, of course, I have to confirm via root password
15:32:15  <planetmaker> so... that'd be fine
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15:33:17  <Ammler> ah, I thought, he means the automatic update of FF itself, which it does on Windows for example.
15:33:59  <SpComb> I do, but I'm only cursorily familiar
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16:45:51  <peter1138> hmm, no doubt they'll want me to remove root's account too :p
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16:57:57  <SpComb> peter1138: what about the toor account?
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17:29:40  <peter1138> quite
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18:29:00  <Wolf01> hello
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18:45:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r18985 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:45:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: basque - 1 changes by Thadah
18:45:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: hebrew - 33 changes by dnd_man
18:45:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 1 changes by BlinK_
18:45:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: swedish - 8 changes by Chrill
18:45:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: vietnamese - 4 changes by nglekhoi
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19:23:06  <Zuu> @seen Yexo
19:23:06  <DorpsGek> Zuu: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 19 hours, 33 minutes, and 30 seconds ago: <Yexo> but it's still getting late :p
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19:30:43  <Zuu> r18803 - "make building (long) roads wark like building rail;... " is most likely the revision that has broken CluelessPlus. Now AIRoad.BuildRoad does not always fail when two tiles can not be connected.
19:31:36  <Zuu> That is the only reason I can find for the bug reports on CluelessPlus that I have been able to confirm on the later nightlies.
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19:34:02  <Zuu> For cases when the end and start tile are adjacent this will be fairly easy to change in the AI, but for long distance building this could be more problematic as building from both ends could still fail if there is an obstacle in the middle. Meaning that you will have to loop over all road stretches that you have built and check that the road is connected.
19:34:24  <frosch123> i guess you do not mean the ai bug introduced by that revision which was fixed quite a long, but you expect the command to fail if not the whole road could be build, right?
19:35:02  <frosch123> oh, i guess it does not leave holes in the middle, but just stops
19:35:14  <Zuu> I expect that the command should still fail if the whole road could be built.
19:35:38  <Zuu> It just stops, but the work around to try from both ends that work on tiles next to each other will not work on longer distances as you could get a gap.
19:35:43  <frosch123> yeah, might be easier for ais
19:36:21  <frosch123> but then the same should apply to rails
19:36:28  <Terkhen> the change was building up to the first obstacle instead of not building at all
19:36:29  <Zuu> Perhaps in 0.7. edition of the API maintain backward compability and in newer you can introduce an enum.
19:37:28  <Zuu> Terkhen: Unless I've missed something the change was also that the construction succeds even if the whole stretch is not finished.
19:37:40  <Terkhen> exactly
19:37:54  <frosch123> hehe, yes, what is useful for humans is not necessarily useful for ais :)
19:37:55  <Zuu> Thats what breaking the backward compability for AIs.
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19:38:24  <Terkhen> I'll check how this is done for rails
19:39:32  <Zuu> As long as you keep the backward compability in the 0.7 backward compability layer of the API. In the 1.0 edition you can change the behavior but then please document it as well. :-)
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19:42:30  <Zuu> There is a backwards compability layer which I think is made in squirrel code that makes the trunk API behaviour as the 0.7 API. Also there is a document that is included in the Doxygen that documents the changes between the API versions.
19:42:55  <Zuu> In info.nut an AI specifies which version of the API it wants.
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19:44:05  <PeterT> Hi All
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19:45:05  <Zuu> Hi PeterT, time for coffee brake? ;-)
19:45:25  <PeterT> :-)
19:45:36  <Zuu> break* (i think)
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19:46:35  <Zuu> Though coffee^-1 is maybe a brake :-p
19:46:43  <PeterT> lol
19:51:07  <Alberth> Zuu: yes, 'brake' is that thing in a car that makes it stop, 'break' is stop doing what you do, and relax for a while.
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19:57:33  <Zuu> hmm the TC_<colour>s, are they the company colours?
19:57:57  <Zuu> Could be the reason why TC_BLUE is darker than TC_BLACK. :-)
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20:00:00  <__ln__>
20:00:26  <Eddi|zuHause> "brake" is to make it stop, and "break" to make it broken ;)
20:00:53  <Alberth> so coffee break breaks the coffee?
20:03:04  <PeterT> Alberth: More like breaking the time of working to drink cofee
20:03:46  <Alberth> I usually discuss things of work while drinking coffee :)
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20:09:52  <frosch123> Zuu: TC_ are textcolours, company colous are COLOUR_ or so
20:10:20  <frosch123> but of course you could use this great tool :p
20:10:38  <frosch123> (i somehow need to get it to the top of most quoted links)
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20:14:54  <PeterT> what?
20:16:02  <SmatZ> nice screenshot,
20:16:49  <frosch123> :p
20:17:03  <frosch123> cheater!
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20:18:36  <PeterT> SmatZ: Were you talking about this one?
20:18:40  <PeterT> or this one?
20:18:52  <SmatZ> PeterT: this one
20:19:07  <PeterT> oh, ok, this one
20:19:11  <SmatZ> frosch123: what's so special about that link?
20:19:17  <frosch123> don't make it get added to dorpsgek
20:19:47  <SmatZ> maybe because of the word "advertise"?
20:19:48  <frosch123>
20:19:56  <TinoDidriksen> Huh?
20:19:58  <TinoDidriksen> Oh
20:20:07  <frosch123> "Most referenced URLs"
20:20:17  <PeterT> frosch123:
20:20:20  <TinoDidriksen> Right...maybe I should disable my highlight for URLs with my name in...
20:20:23  <frosch123> someone highlights on tin* :)
20:20:31  <SmatZ> :D
20:21:15  <PeterT> I'm number 4 on that list? wow.
20:21:28  <PeterT> SmatZ: Are you aware there is a SmatZ_?
20:22:04  <SmatZ> PeterT: yes, it's me
20:22:12  <PeterT> You use two different clients?
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20:22:19  <PeterT> just to join #oftc and #gcc?
20:22:20  * SmatZ_ slaps PeterT
20:22:22  <PeterT> and #openttd now
20:22:24  *** SmatZ_ [] has left #openttd [Konversation terminated!]
20:22:27  <SmatZ> yes
20:22:40  <SmatZ> I don't want to connect via BNC there
20:22:45  <SmatZ> to reduce BNC traffic
20:22:55  <PeterT> ok
20:23:53  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: at least on those stats the "list of referenced nicks" is not spoiled by kiddies who name themselves "I" or "You" yet...
20:24:38  <Faux> It's trivial to add things like that to the ignore list.
20:25:06  <Eddi|zuHause> Faux: if it's so trivial, why do i see that so often?
20:25:21  <Faux> 'cos it requires more than installing the debian package and pointing it at a folder?
20:25:30  * Faux has 178 directives of pisg config.
20:25:32  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: in both cases you are the top spammer
20:25:46  <Eddi|zuHause> i know ;)
20:26:04  <Eddi|zuHause> my lines tend to be longer than the others'
20:26:34  <SmatZ> @seen ChorizoGrueso
20:26:34  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: ChorizoGrueso was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 19 hours, 27 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <ChorizoGrueso> ns done?  If you are sick of this, join Chimpout forum!
20:26:49  <SmatZ> oh, a spammer
20:27:09  <glx> [21:26:42] <DorpsGek> Error: I cowardly refuse to kickban myself.
20:27:11  <glx> lol
20:27:14  <SmatZ> hehe
20:28:00  <SmatZ> frosch123: will be on the not next time that page is updated
20:28:39  <frosch123> err, can you please rephrase :)
20:28:42  <Eddi|zuHause> it's funny, you can play "spot the american" in the top 25 ;)
20:29:01  <SmatZ> frosch123: s/not/top
20:29:03  <SmatZ> ;)
20:29:13  <frosch123> hehe :)
20:29:14  <SmatZ> that page = stats page
20:30:20  <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause: Eddi|zuHause spoke a total of 41721 words!
20:30:34  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: the brazilian-coloured one?
20:30:40  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: i can read, thank you :p
20:31:17  <PeterT> 	PeterT	1991 pwnt
20:32:23  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i thought roboboy was australian?
20:32:41  <frosch123> no idea, never talked with him
20:32:45  <PeterT> He is
20:33:14  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's hard to get in touch with australians when both have a regular sleep pattern :p
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20:36:04  <andythenorth> hi hi
20:36:27  <PeterT> andythenorth: I would love to have RoadTypes
20:36:28  <Eddi|zuHause> hello, man from the north
20:36:35  <PeterT> Dirt road, especially
20:36:39  <PeterT> also, hello and
20:36:42  <PeterT> also, hello andythenorth
20:36:58  <andythenorth> PeterT: why don't you patch for it?
20:37:06  <Zuu> frosch123: Ok, then it was that the Gfx functions maybe want the colours in a different format then.
20:37:07  <PeterT> I don't know C++
20:37:15  <PeterT> that's peter1138's place
20:37:20  <andythenorth> neither did anyone else before they learnt it
20:37:27  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: fwiw, i believe in a few months i can be dual top "spammer" in the long term stats as well ;)
20:37:38  <andythenorth> hands up if you got born knowing C++
20:38:02  <andythenorth> PeterT: "I don't know" is such a crap excuse :D
20:38:12  <andythenorth> I don't know nfo, but I'm bloody learning it
20:38:31  <PeterT> Also, did you self-censor "bl**dy" on the forums?
20:38:32  <PeterT> what for?
20:39:00  <andythenorth> children read the forums.  I can uncensor if censoring offends
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20:39:23  <PeterT> Censoring does offend
20:39:38  <Eoin> TT-F is 13+ though
20:40:40  <Zuu> Most offending is when they blur the mouth of people in TV series and not just beep out the sound.
20:41:26  <frosch123> Zuu: which Gfx function do you want to use?
20:41:28  <Zuu> Because then you can't bypass the beep by lip reading it instead. :-)
20:42:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i, as a foreign-language-speaker, hate when they beep out stuff in american tv shows
20:42:37  <PeterT> Why?
20:42:46  <Eddi|zuHause> you loose a lot of context that way...
20:43:30  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: native speakers can easily guess the beeped out content, but foreign language speakers often do not have that ability
20:44:16  <Zuu> frosch123: GfxFillRect
20:44:24  <SmatZ> does it really matter which bad word was beeped out?
20:44:34  <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: yes.
20:45:05  <frosch123> Zuu: that one takes a palette index directly, there is no enum for those
20:45:07  <peter1138> BEEP you i won't do what you tell me
20:45:29  <SmatZ> hehe
20:45:56  <frosch123> take a look at table/palettes.h
20:46:05  <Zuu> frosch123: Ok
20:47:11  * andythenorth uncensored the bloody censoring
20:47:30  <Zuu> I guess the problem is that the different colour types are typecompatible with eachother in OpenTTD, so the compiler won't complain.
20:47:49  <PeterT> You didn't uncensor it, you just changed the word
20:47:57  <Zuu> Or put it in other words that I didn't read the function documentation clear enough. ;-)
20:47:59  <PeterT> I was thinking more Bl**dy -> Bloody
20:48:02  * frosch123 reports the post for censoring
20:48:05  <frosch123> :p
20:48:07  <PeterT> not Bl**dy -> Silly
20:48:12  <PeterT> :-P
20:48:13  <andythenorth> PeterT: if you spent less time on this you'd have more time to learn C++
20:48:32  * andythenorth wonders if curry is cooked yet
20:48:38  * andythenorth finds the answer is yes
20:49:04  <Zuu> And when you become a coder by heart you'll know that the details are important. (as you just saw ;-) )
20:49:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i only know haskell curry
20:50:09  <andythenorth> is there any way to add a C++ test as a prerequisite to joining #openttd?
20:50:33  <Eddi|zuHause> chanmode +k? :)
20:50:46  <PeterT> /mode +k C++
20:50:57  <andythenorth> I'd have to learn C++ mind
20:51:04  <andythenorth> or go do something else instead of this
20:51:10  * andythenorth wanders away to eat curry
20:51:20  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:51:23  <Eddi|zuHause> go, irc only wastes your time anyway :p
20:52:20  <PeterT> irc is educational
20:52:46  <PeterT> besides, I can read C++ well
20:52:51  <Bluelight> Is there a IRC channel for the game Arcanum?
20:52:55  <PeterT> if (SaveOrLoad(filename, SL_SAVE, SAVE_DIR) != SL_OK) {
20:52:55  <PeterT>  			IConsolePrint(CC_ERROR, "Saving map failed");
20:53:15  <Eddi|zuHause> Bluelight: why would we know that?
20:53:24  <Bluelight> Dunno, lol
20:53:27  <PeterT> means "if the filename, SL_SAVE is not equal to SL_OK, then output in the console "Saving map Failed""
20:53:40  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: no, it does not
20:53:46  <PeterT> what does it mean?
20:54:15  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: it means "run the function SaveOrLoad, and if that returns something other than SL_OK, print an error message"
20:54:44  <Zuu> Filename, SL_SAVE, SAVE_DIR are all three arguments to the function SaveOrLoad.
20:54:55  <Zuu> filename*
20:54:57  <frosch123> night
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20:55:57  <Rubidium> PeterT: then what does do? (without trying to compile it)
20:57:25  <PeterT> DoSomething && print "%d"
20:57:28  <PeterT> then /t
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20:59:22  <Zuu> PeterT, not really. There are several conditions in there as well as recrusive calls.
21:00:08  <Eddi|zuHause> it's something recursive...
21:00:13  <Zuu> Rubidium: Shouldn't the _ function have a defined return type?
21:00:28  <Rubidium> Zuu: for C++ yeah, for C it compiles :)
21:00:41  <Zuu> So in C int is implicit?
21:00:50  <Rubidium> yeah, apparantly
21:01:17  <Zuu> I've never done C.
21:03:00  <Rubidium> but yes, it's recursive
21:05:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i have a feeling it could be a sieve of erathostenes
21:05:30  <Eddi|zuHause> or something with primes
21:06:30  <Rubidium> it doesn't do what it's supposed to do anyway :)
21:06:48  <Rubidium> as always: wikipedia isn't a reliable source :)
21:07:00  <Eddi|zuHause> _____ is some kind of stepwidth
21:10:40  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- slightly rewritten (only whitespace and variable renaming)
21:13:07  <Eddi|zuHause> first step is setting b = b+n*d until b > a*d
21:13:36  <Eddi|zuHause> so for the given input it's x(100,100,0,1)
21:13:55  <Eddi|zuHause> err, x(100,101,0,1)
21:14:12  <Eddi|zuHause> even worse
21:14:21  <Eddi|zuHause> x(100,201,0,1)
21:14:56  <Eddi|zuHause> still not right
21:14:59  <Eddi|zuHause> x(100,200,0,1)
21:15:04  <Eddi|zuHause> man, this is hard ;)
21:16:06  <Eddi|zuHause> the second step is skipped, because 200%100=0
21:16:50  <Eddi|zuHause> third and fourth step is skipped, too
21:17:03  <Eddi|zuHause> and b<a^2, so it increases b again
21:17:43  <Eddi|zuHause> x(100,201,0,1)
21:18:20  <Eddi|zuHause> now 201%100 = 1, so it sets c to that value
21:18:34  <Eddi|zuHause> x(100,202,1,1)
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21:18:59  <Eddi|zuHause> and repeats that, until b%a==0 again
21:19:18  <Eddi|zuHause> so it's now x(100,300,99,1)
21:20:50  <Eddi|zuHause> could it be that it never ever prints anything, because when it gets to the third case, b%a is always 0?
21:21:28  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: just compile it with gcc :)
21:21:49  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: the Python challenge seems something for you:
21:22:18  <andythenorth> uh oh.  I get busted at about #3 in the python challenge :(
21:22:23  <Zuu> Or where you can choose whatever language you want. :-)
21:22:24  <andythenorth> lame
21:22:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: well, that kinda supports my initial thought ;)
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21:23:04  <Eddi|zuHause> only it's printing wrong numbers
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21:25:16  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: terkhen * r18986 /trunk/src/ (ai/api/ai_road.cpp ai/api/ai_road.hpp road_cmd.cpp): -Fix (r18803): Make building long roads fail for AIs if there is an obstacle in the way.
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21:26:57  <Zuu> Terkhen: So the road will still be built up to the obstacle but the return value will be false?
21:28:04  <Zuu> Could possible still break road building code for some AI.
21:28:10  <Terkhen> the road will not be built at all
21:28:23  <Zuu> Okay, good news :-)
21:28:26  <Terkhen> should be identical to old behaviour :)
21:29:02  <Zuu> I just read through the changeset on, didn't actually read the whole context of those changes.
21:30:26  <Zuu> Thank you for the fix.
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21:31:35  <Terkhen> thank you for the report, let me know if there are further problems :)
21:32:45  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i'm confused... the parameter c can never be set to anything other than 0
21:33:26  <Zuu> Terkhen, in the AI API docs you could add that if it fails, it will not build anything at all. Since it differs from the player behaviour.
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21:34:00  <Zuu> New AI authors might get confused otherwise.
21:34:40  <Zuu> Though, the road building is still a bit different for AIs already.
21:34:44  <SmatZ> Zuu: it's documented, see the diff
21:34:50  <SmatZ> if that's what you had in mind
21:36:02  <Zuu> Only building up to the obscale and returning fales could be seen as failing?
21:36:08  <Zuu> false*
21:36:38  <SmatZ> ok :)
21:38:28  <Eddi|zuHause> so it always increases b by step d, and prints something whenever b = n*(a+1)
21:39:01  <Eddi|zuHause> and occasionally it increases d
21:39:31  <Eddi|zuHause> under a really obscure condition
21:41:50  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: obscurity is bliss? :)
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21:59:07  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:08:44  <andythenorth> Rubidium: dunno if I was clear on the problem with FS 3585
22:09:02  <andythenorth> problem is not industry unreachable, problem is it's impossible to build road / rail routs
22:09:04  <andythenorth> routes /s
22:09:48  <andythenorth> fix might be the same though.  Or I should deal with it in nfo :o
22:10:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't figure out the condition when it increases d, but it prints n whenever b=n*(a+1) and bails when reaching b=a^2
22:11:16  <Eddi|zuHause> parameter c is useless, and a is constant
22:11:38  <Eddi|zuHause> and b is always increased by d in each iteration
22:12:32  * andythenorth ponders checking distance to nearest of all 32 other industry types when building an industry
22:12:51  * andythenorth is glad there is templating
22:13:12  * andythenorth wonders about tying the game up in some horrible loop when trying to build an industry
22:13:44  <andythenorth> actually, probably 58 other industry types.  I did beer counting above.
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22:27:06  <Shapeshifter> Hi there. I just started playing and I don't understand why sometimes, the lorry stations I build close to some place don't want to give me the goods. For example this:
22:27:16  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: terkhen * r18987 /trunk/src/ (ai/api/ai_rail.cpp ai/api/ai_rail.hpp rail_cmd.cpp): -Fix: [NoAI] Make building long rails fail for AIs if there is an obstacle in the way.
22:27:23  <Shapeshifter> when building the lorry station, it said that it will give wood, but after placing it, it gives nothing.
22:27:30  <PeterT> umm....
22:27:41  <Eoin> it dosent give you wood until you send vehicles to collect wood
22:27:46  <PeterT> Terkhen?
22:27:58  <Shapeshifter> Eoin: mh ^^
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22:28:15  <Terkhen> PeterT: yes?
22:28:38  <PeterT> those commits sound the same
22:28:40  <Shapeshifter> I see... And, about the ratings. I read the wiki and things, but it seems very complicated with all the points. What's really important to get good ratings? little "waiting" at the stations, and?
22:29:48  <Terkhen> check again :)
22:30:16  *** Guest538 is now known as Sacro
22:30:23  <PeterT> Make building long roads fail for AIs if there is an obstacle in the way.
22:30:39  <PeterT> Make building long rails fail for AIs if there is an obstacle in the way.
22:30:40  <TrueBrain> Terkhen: and here I was proud I removed all 'special' AI code :p And here you reintroduce them :p :) Still, a very nice addition :)
22:30:57  <Eddi|zuHause> "road" and "rail" look different to me ;)
22:31:24  <TrueBrain> very nice, in fact :)
22:31:42  <PeterT> ahh
22:31:48  <Terkhen> thanks :)
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22:33:00  <Eddi|zuHause> what if that was a per-player setting and each player/AI can do it as he prefers?
22:33:50  <Zuu> Terkhen: I don't want to be a show stopper, but did the AIRail always behave like that before or was there also a 'bug' with the AI rail construction?
22:34:10  <Zuu> I have never used AIRail myself so I don't know.
22:34:27  <Yexo> Zuu: if you build a long rail with AIRail it also build up to the first obstable (and return success)
22:34:39  <Terkhen> yes, it always behaved like that
22:34:41  <Yexo> now it behaves like road
22:35:08  <Zuu> Doesn't that break Admiral AI, ChooChoo etc?
22:35:23  <Yexo> I don't think any currnent AI builds multiple rail tracks at once
22:35:31  <Zuu> Or is this only for 1.0 version of the API?
22:35:41  <Yexo> no, it's for all versions of the API
22:36:00  <Zuu> Okay.
22:36:02  <Yexo> but it won't break AIs
22:36:25  <Yexo> if they relied on the old behavior they would have to check if the complete rail was build in case of success, that'll still work
22:36:35  <Yexo> if it returned failure no part was build, just like now
22:36:44  <Zuu> Makes sense.
22:36:55  <Yexo> it could only break AIs if they rely on the current behavior but got the old behavior
22:37:34  <TrueBrain> I am suprised it was never noticed in the pre-versions :)
22:37:51  <Yexo> <Yexo> I don't think any currnent AI builds multiple rail tracks at once <- that's most likely why
22:38:03  <Yexo> and in fact I did notice, but the behavior was inconsistent in the gui too, so I didn't bother
22:38:19  <TrueBrain> true
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22:46:45  <Terkhen> good night
22:46:52  <Zuu> good night Terkhen
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22:49:38  * andythenorth ponders Sugar Beet as a temperate / arctic version of Sugar Cane
22:50:01  <andythenorth> FIRS = Finally I'll Release Something :(
22:50:07  <Eoin> lol
22:50:53  <Shapeshifter> mh. I have huge traffic jams on the road near an oil/powerplant lorry station. how can I get rid of it? I've built two more stations and told trucks to go there but they don't seem to listen.
22:51:05  <Eoin> use drive-thru
22:51:19  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: sounds sensible
22:51:34  <Shapeshifter> Eoin: won't the first truck stop at the first drive through and block the others anyway?
22:51:49  <Zuu> Build them in parallell.
22:52:08  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: random idea, more climate-specific industries, and in the other climates you have ports that simulate importing outer-climate cargos
22:52:08  <Eoin> what Zuu beat me to
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22:52:22  <Yexo> Shapeshifter: how long have you waited after building the 2 new stops?
22:52:25  <Zuu> If you use 1.0 beta or a recent nightly and standard vehicles, then they can stop two at each side.
22:52:26  <Yexo> maybe you should give it some more time
22:52:31  <Shapeshifter> Yexo: 10 minutes or so
22:52:34  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: sounds like RT3
22:52:45  <Eddi|zuHause> i have never played RT3
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22:52:54  <Yexo> Shapeshifter: oh, can you upload the savegame somewhere?
22:53:16  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and didn't you say FIRS is heavily inspired by RT3 anyway? ;)
22:53:23  <andythenorth> yup
22:53:57  <andythenorth> I'm thinking of ports.  Someone wrote somewhere on the forums 'no off-the-map transport' and I've been trying to stick to that.  but screw it
22:54:46  <Eddi|zuHause> ports might be a good addition to the game, if done right
22:54:48  <Zuu> andythenorth: so they will "trade" some cargo into something else?
22:54:53  <andythenorth> maybe
22:54:59  <andythenorth> import-export?
22:55:12  <andythenorth> sure that isn't against the spirit of the game??
22:55:13  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think import and export should be linked
22:55:23  <Zuu> And if you find two ports that are the opposite type then you could have a closed loop between those. :-)
22:55:34  <andythenorth> umm
22:55:36  <andythenorth> yse
22:55:38  <andythenorth> yes
22:55:46  <andythenorth> anyway time for bed :|
22:55:50  <Shapeshifter> Yexo: nah I quit it, sorry. I'll try again on a bigger map, this was a small test anyway ;)
22:55:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: no, more like: in temperate, all ports import primary cargos like oil, copper, bauxit
22:56:14  <Eddi|zuHause> and export goods and supplies
22:56:47  <andythenorth> good night
22:56:47  <Eddi|zuHause> in arctic, they import food and export wood products
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22:56:58  <Zuu> Okay, so no fancy NewGRF delay logic :-)
22:57:21  <Eddi|zuHause> in tropic, they export primary goods
22:57:29  <Zuu> Put something in and a month later you get something else back.
22:57:31  <Eddi|zuHause> something along those lines...
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22:58:14  <Zuu> The opposite type port loop was mostly a joke from my side though.
22:58:18  <Eddi|zuHause> so tropic could be low on processing industries in the beginning, only mines and ports
22:58:37  <Eddi|zuHause> if you build up your network, you can found processing industries manually
22:58:43  <Eddi|zuHause> and transport higher goods
22:58:50  <Zuu> Oh, that's intresting.
22:59:33  <Zuu> Then you'd have some use for your money and possibly extended gameplay of building industries.
23:00:23  <Eddi|zuHause> that's putting the current behaviour a step further, where you have to build the wood industry manually
23:01:51  <Eddi|zuHause> in arctic, food might only be produced by the farms during summer, and you have to deliver the ports with goods to get food out of them during the winter, or something
23:02:47  <Eddi|zuHause> in temperate, mines might start to close down after 1950 (or so), and the only way to get more raw materials is through ports
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23:11:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r18988 /trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp: -Fix: [NewGRF] industry var A5 (=high 8 bits of var A4) returned the high 8 bits of var A2. Same problem for 9B/9A/98
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23:29:28  <Eddi|zuHause> why is there an increasing number of non-development posts (like questions/problems/suggestions) in the development forum?
23:30:06  <PeterT> The are about developing?
23:30:08  <Zuu> That has always irritated me as well.
23:30:15  <PeterT> I've contributed to that
23:30:34  <Zuu> Suggestions without any code contribution should go to the suggestions forum.
23:30:42  <PeterT> I really don't think that "Compiling problems with MSVC" belongs in OpenTTD Problems
23:30:55  <PeterT> since I'm not having a problem specifically with OpenTTD
23:31:10  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: no, but "why is my pathfinder behaving this way" definitely does not belong into development
23:31:20  <PeterT> What topic is that?
23:31:47  <Zuu> #2 at the dev forum at the moment.
23:31:58  <Zuu> (after the stickies)
23:32:15  <PeterT> Hmm
23:32:17  <Yexo> not anymore :p
23:32:31  <Zuu> Good work Yexo :-)
23:32:35  <Eddi|zuHause> "Why does the pathfinder behave like this?", "Original v Improved Loading algorithm", "Attachment(s) [REQUEST] plane crash off//on (or reduction)" examples of recent threads that don't belong there
23:32:35  <PeterT> Also, why is "Rail Types" there?
23:33:00  <Yexo> because there is no better place for the Rail Types topic
23:33:00  <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause: the [REQUEST] one actually lead to the making of a patch
23:33:23  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: but it's still a suggestion, there's an explicit forum for that
23:33:24  <Yexo> PeterT: so? it didn't belong in the development forum
23:33:56  <Zuu> If all suggestions would be posted in the dev forum because they might become a patch, then it will be even more caotic than it is now.
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23:35:07  <Eddi|zuHause> and the "Rail Types" thread is discussing a patch that is currently in development
23:35:20  <Eddi|zuHause> only that it does not have the patch attached to it...
23:35:22  <Zuu> Users who do not code shouldn't have a reason to visit that forum other than for reading about new cool features that might or might not end up in trunk at some point in future.
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23:38:48  <welshdragon> hmm
23:39:11  * welshdragon is trying to update OpenTTD on a dedicated server
23:40:09  <Zuu> Well, people who contribute a lot towards the OpenTTD project are of course welcome in the development forum. I don't want to be harsh against those. But seeing all non-development topics there makes it a mess.
23:44:18  <Zuu> The rail types will need some GUI changes later to help users know the speed limits etc., but let them figure out the spec first. :-)
23:46:47  <Yexo> Zuu: it's true those topics can make a mess of it, but in my opinion it's not that bad currently
23:47:16  <Yexo> the pathfinder topic and the loading algorithm topic where at the wrong place, as was the plane crash topic, but that's only 3 topics on the first page
23:47:18  <Zuu> No, it is not very bad - yet :-)
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23:48:30  <Zuu> (and no, I don't plan on makeing lot of bad topics in there ... ;-) )
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23:49:37  <PeterT> I've noticed OpenTTD takes longer to load when a new config is placed into the directory
23:49:58  <PeterT> is it just because OpenTTD needs to gather all the data and write to the cfg?
23:50:05  <SpComb> hmm... changeing DAY_LENGTH does affect LA ratings
23:50:32  <Zuu> PeterT: could also depend on the file system you are using how long time it takes to create the file.
23:50:47  <PeterT> I am the file, it just hasn't written anything to it yet
23:50:49  <Diablo-D3> ugh
23:50:52  <Diablo-D3> theres a problem with 2cc
23:50:52  <PeterT> I understand what you mean
23:51:00  <Zuu> By definition that will take some time, but if that is relevant or not I don't know.
23:51:03  <Diablo-D3> how do I tell what trains can carry any kind of car
23:51:12  <SpComb> every time a vehicle is loaded at a station, time_since_load/unload is set to zero... every 185 ticks, it's incremented... every month, the town checks if its stations have time_since_load/unload <= 20
23:51:23  <Yexo> <PeterT> is it just because OpenTTD needs to gather all the data and write to the cfg? <- writing to the config file is only done when you close openttd, not when you start it
23:51:36  <PeterT> oh
23:51:57  <Zuu> It could be that it will need to go through the full list of possible locations to search for the cfg file.
23:51:59  <Yexo> SpComb: that's what I suspected, but I didn't care enough to find out
23:52:07  <Zuu> If it finds it early on it will skip the other locations.
23:53:27  <Rubidium> with daylength being "tested" that "good" for so long it amazes me that even more misbehavings are found
23:53:38  <Zuu> Diablo-D3: On some train sets you can see if an engine is a passenger or freight (or both) engine.
23:53:55  <Zuu> freight only engines will not take passenger cars for example.
23:55:15  <Diablo-D3> Zuu: yeah, but I cant look at anything in the buy window and instantly know
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23:55:54  <Zuu> IIRC there is a label that says if the engine is a freight engine or not as I said before. At least that is how UKRS works.
23:55:56  <PeterT> why are topics like "Project: Economy and Balancing" still stickied? they are obviously dead
23:56:13  <Diablo-D3> Zuu: well, it doesnt seem to be in 2cc
23:56:35  <Zuu> Okay. I didn't really like 2cc so I haven't used it a lot but sticked with UKRS.
23:57:36  <Yexo> PeterT: because having that topic as sticky prevents a new topic for the same thing being opened every week
23:57:42  <Zuu> PeterT: That topic had a post one minute ago or so. Is that dead?
23:57:56  <PeterT> Dead as a project
23:58:14  <Yexo> Zuu: it's "dead" as in "no serious work on it is being done", except a lot of people that keep posting suggestions without reading the rest of the topic
23:58:40  <Zuu> I think people are often too quick at declaring projects as dead.
23:58:59  <Rubidium> Yexo: yeah, under those explanations the Mac OS X port thread is dead to
23:59:01  <Zuu> This one is more like discussed to death.
23:59:02  <Rubidium> +o
23:59:20  <Eddi|zuHause> <Yexo> the pathfinder topic and the loading algorithm topic where at the wrong place, as was the plane crash topic, but that's only 3 topics on the first page <-- there were a few more, which have already been moved
23:59:39  <Yexo> Rubidium: well, the mac os x port is "dead" currently, so I'd say my definition holds in that case
23:59:42  <Diablo-D3> Zuu: so ukrs clearly states what the train can pull?

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