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00:09:14 <Rubidium> hmm, I must be using 7z incorrectly; it compresses worse than zip out-of-the-box 00:10:15 <ccfreak2k> Using the GUI or the command-line? 00:11:27 <Rubidium> command line 00:11:41 <Rubidium> just 7z a foo.7z <some files> 00:14:00 *** Frankr is now known as Guest2023 00:14:04 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@nas46-24.york.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 00:14:40 <ccfreak2k> Try adding -mx9. 00:14:55 <ccfreak2k> And -ms=on 00:19:39 *** JVassie [~TheExile^@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:20:09 *** Guest2023 [~chatzilla@nas46-24.york.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:22:42 <ccfreak2k> There's all kinds of options you can change to increase compression. 00:22:53 <ccfreak2k> They're just not on by default it seems. 00:24:29 <aber> increase the dictonary size 00:26:28 <Rubidium> -mx9 and -ms=on doesn't make it smaller than zip -9 either :( 00:27:36 <ccfreak2k> You could also see if adding -mN=LZMA2 helps. 00:27:36 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@j104051.upc-j.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:29:16 <Rubidium> invalid arg :( 00:30:11 <ccfreak2k> I guess I read it wrong then. 00:30:34 <ccfreak2k> How much smaller is the ZIP archive from the uncompressed files? 00:30:43 <Rubidium> oh... "ultimate" settings 00:31:12 <Rubidium> ccfreak2k: ~1% or so IIRC 00:31:40 <ccfreak2k> In that case, I find it doubtful that LZMA will compress much better. 00:31:51 <Rubidium> 191M -> 190M 00:32:06 <ccfreak2k> That's a teeny bit over 0.5%. 00:32:08 <Rubidium> 198988411 7z with some 'ultra' setting 00:32:22 <Rubidium> 198450283 zip with -9 00:32:43 <aber> What's inside the archive? 00:32:59 <Rubidium> png and gzip compressed data 00:33:04 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7488C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:33:27 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77D0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:33:30 * Lakie doubts you'd get much better with trying to store already compressed data. 00:33:56 <Rubidium> 198613830 <- 7z with lzma2 00:35:12 <Rubidium> Lakie: there are some tricks to compress it better; IIRC png uses gzip internally, so extracting that and running it through lzma might yield a 10-20% size reduction 00:35:41 <Rubidium> but... that's quite tricky and such 00:35:47 <Lakie> yeah 00:35:58 <gathers> are the png's optimized already? 00:37:01 <Rubidium> yeah, kinda. They can be optimised a bit, but... that's in the neighbourhood of 1% 00:40:07 <ccfreak2k> optipng :) 00:40:53 <Rubidium> oh, I tried *all* I could find in my package manager 00:41:02 <Rubidium> one even tried like 200 different settings 00:43:34 <gathers> this might be a stupid question, but when bumping the savegame version number for new settings I add in a patch, do I have to bump SAVEGAME_VERSION as well? loading and saving seem to work even if I use higher numbers than SAVEGAME_VERSION in settings.h 00:44:17 <gathers> (I'd like for my branch to merge with cargodist without conflicts if possible) 00:44:25 <ccfreak2k> optipng will get you close to optimal. There's another one that can shave a few kilobytes off a 2000x2000+ image. 00:44:51 <Rubidium> yes; if the version in settings.h is higher than the savegame version it's just not stored in the savegame 00:45:21 <Rubidium> ccfreak2k: yeah, on a 2 MB PNG, so like 1%. Not really worth the effort :) 00:46:31 <ccfreak2k> I, personally, always use optipng. -zc9 -zm1-9 -zs0-3 -f0-5 doesn't take that long and always reduces final size, unless the image is small to begin with. 00:46:48 <gathers> ok, thanks. hmm, so another branch then I guess 00:47:37 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 00:48:47 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:81bc:53d7:4e18:2b46] has quit [Quit: bye] 00:53:07 <Rubidium> http://devs.openttd.org/~rubidium/intro/round1/ :) 00:54:50 *** KenjiE20|LT [~KenjiE20@host81-129-81-36.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 00:55:29 <Xaroth> i see #2 is going for the 'keepin it clean' award? 00:56:30 <ccfreak2k> The top three should be randomly chosen or cycled in-order on each game start. 00:57:02 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.10.92.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:58:58 <ccfreak2k> Or have a variety from different categories cycled RCT-tyle. 01:00:52 <Rubidium> but that would (unneededly) bloat the downloads 01:05:31 <gathers> Savegames have to be graded with integrals? Oh, I can see mathematicians having fun while voting on this :P 01:09:10 <Rubidium> hmm... yeah, always nice to have multiple meanings for a word 01:09:23 *** Hackykid_ [~quassel@86.85.232.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:11:57 <aber> on the second savegame the crossing of canal and monrail, is it possible for the train to go through the water? 01:13:43 <Eddi|zuHause> <__ln__> can someone refresh my memory about what happened to Claire? <-- last appearance was in the shed with her and jacks father (christopher?) about one full season ago, then she just disappeared 01:13:58 *** Frankr is now known as Guest2029 01:14:01 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@nas46-24.york.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 01:14:48 <Xaroth> Rubidium: having the feature would still kick ass tho :o 01:15:37 <Xaroth> then again I would rather have it able to show multiple locations of 1 savegame 01:18:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Xaroth: there once was a patch that cycles through sign locations, or so 01:18:28 *** aber [~Adium@p5B32510A.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 01:20:02 *** Guest2029 [~chatzilla@nas46-24.york.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:22:42 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@174.72.200-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 01:27:11 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 01:41:58 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: that's the scene where john looks for jacob, but finds these two instead, and then asks "how do i save the island?" 01:43:01 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 01:44:19 *** `Fuco` [dota.keys@comp55-3.vpn.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 01:48:46 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:52:08 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AFB653.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:56:07 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 02:11:00 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax 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closed the connection] 02:57:31 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 03:05:05 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:06:38 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 03:14:08 *** Frankr is now known as Guest2043 03:14:12 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@nas46-24.york.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 03:17:39 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-16-169.A149.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 03:19:38 *** Ragzid [~Ragzid@173-231-207-85.jizmorava.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has quit [Quit: Ragzid] 03:21:04 *** Guest2043 [~chatzilla@nas46-24.york.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:25:48 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-138-225.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 03:31:04 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-156-010.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:38:44 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:40:49 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 03:42:55 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:04:28 *** gr00vy [cRave@dslb-188-097-154-154.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:04:38 *** gr00vy [cRave@dslb-188-097-149-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 04:09:59 <ccfreak2k> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9yxkLGkI3c 04:14:20 *** Frankr is now known as Guest2053 04:14:23 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@nas46-24.york.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 04:19:46 *** llugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8de8c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 04:21:05 *** Guest2053 [~chatzilla@nas46-24.york.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:25:48 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-166-146.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:26:54 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c8d1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:28:03 *** tokai 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timeout: 480 seconds] 07:11:00 *** fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbab023.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 07:13:37 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@65.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 07:32:36 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:33:16 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 07:50:30 *** Phazorx [~pavelkoll@77.239.236.193] has joined #openttd 07:52:20 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 07:59:14 *** heffer [~felix@HSI-KBW-095-208-017-052.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #openttd 08:21:39 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Administr@88.130.186.52] has joined #openttd 08:27:24 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Administr@88.130.166.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:33:45 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has joined #openttd 08:52:41 *** fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbab023.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:10:55 *** |Terkhen| [~Terkhen@138.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 09:12:51 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-254-126.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 09:16:19 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@65.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:18:59 *** |Terkhen| [~Terkhen@138.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:20:25 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E9E1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:22:15 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has joined #openttd 09:26:00 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@110.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 09:53:23 <planetmaker> Rubidium: I assume that the votes are such that 0=least preferred and 10=most preferred title game, right? 09:54:22 <Phazorx> pm, any clue on coopers desync issues? 09:54:40 <planetmaker> I didn't do any desync debugging on it 09:56:43 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF935B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:01:03 <planetmaker> I could try, though ;-) 10:01:32 <planetmaker> let's see whether I can reproduce it locally 10:01:47 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd4e1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:01:56 <planetmaker> moin frosch123 10:02:27 <planetmaker> did you actually get a desync diff yesterday already? 10:02:38 <frosch123> yes 10:02:45 <frosch123> i wrote it all in fs 10:02:54 <planetmaker> oh, I missed that then 10:03:45 <planetmaker> uh. That sounds ugly 10:04:33 <frosch123> the desync starts with a train choosing a a n vs. ne track right before the dropoff station which then causes the train to pick a platform 2 tiles to the nw, which then makes the train stop later, which then causes the electric spark to happen later, which causes the random seeds to differ :p 10:04:52 <planetmaker> he. random is defined re-defined often when compiling --enable-desync-debug 10:04:57 <Gargami> Wow 10:04:57 <Gargami> My bandwith is proportional to the height of my monitor. 10:05:06 <frosch123> but actually the yapf debug stuff is that broken, that the next run should be with valgrind 10:06:09 <planetmaker> In file included from ottd/trunk/src/ai/ai_config.cpp:15: 10:06:11 <planetmaker> ottd/trunk/src/ai/../core/random_func.hpp:88:1: warning: "Random" redefined 10:06:13 <planetmaker> ottd/trunk/src/ai/../core/random_func.hpp:17:1: warning: this is the location of the previous definition 10:06:22 <planetmaker> and many other files of course, too, where it is used 10:06:30 <frosch123> sounds like osx 10:06:54 <planetmaker> well, yes, that's where I do compile... 10:06:58 <frosch123> i cannot remember getting those 10:08:08 <planetmaker> true. The :17 is __APPLE__ defined only 10:09:07 <Alberth> Gargami: turn your monitor 90 degrees :p 10:11:25 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: thanks 10:12:02 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: the episodes 4x10 and 4x11 are probably "interesting" 10:12:17 <Eddi|zuHause> towards the end 10:20:33 <Gargami> Noo! 10:20:37 <Gargami> Wait. 10:20:41 <Gargami> Noo. D; 10:20:46 *** welshdragon [~markmac@client-82-27-249-61.glfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:21:31 <planetmaker> hm... is there a clean way to re-define a function? 10:22:11 <Eddi|zuHause> make an #ifndef __APPLE__ around the other one 10:29:38 <planetmaker> hm... the first definition is #define Random OTTD_Random - and OTTD_Random never appears anywhere. 10:30:22 <planetmaker> or do I grep wrongly or what does that line possibly do? 10:30:40 <planetmaker> I mean... when does that define play a role? 10:31:28 <peter1138> it replaces all future mentions of Random with OTTD_Random 10:31:36 <peter1138> thus, it doesn't then clash with apple's Random 10:32:41 <peter1138> you probably need #define OTTD_Random() on line 88 for apple 10:33:59 <planetmaker> ah. I see. 10:34:05 <planetmaker> I'll give it a shot, thanks 10:34:25 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 10:41:33 <peter1138> or perhaps comment out the first one 10:42:44 *** JVassie [~TheExile^@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:45:10 <planetmaker> your first proposal compiles without warnings 10:45:23 *** Hackykid [~quassel@86.85.232.104] has joined #openttd 10:45:27 <planetmaker> but the latter, too... Hm. 10:50:35 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:52:17 *** welshdragon [~markmac@client-82-27-249-61.glfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: welshdragon] 10:55:05 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 10:56:13 <planetmaker> any good idea how to quickly test what is preferred? E.g. what could go wrong, what errors I should look for? 11:00:09 *** fjb [~frank@p5485ACF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:00:49 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 11:01:07 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: if it clashes with a builtin random, then it may desync quickly 11:01:18 <fjb> Moin 11:06:01 <frosch123> quak fjb 11:06:25 <fjb> Quak frosch123 11:07:17 <Eddi|zuHause> "quakfrosch"... i haven't heard that phrase since i was 5 years old... 11:07:43 <frosch123> i hear it more often :p 11:10:17 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 11:10:26 <peter1138> planetmaker, which one works though ;) 11:10:47 <planetmaker> peter1138: in both cases the game starts just fine... 11:11:12 <planetmaker> but... just starting the game and loading a savegame doesn't look like a thorough test to me 11:11:32 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77D0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:11:59 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77D0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:13:02 *** fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbab023.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:14:59 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 11:15:03 <peter1138> presumably, if you enabled random debug, you should be testing the functionality of that 11:16:26 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:23:00 <planetmaker> If I remove the #ifdef __APPLE__ it needs to work in all cases. Funnily I am now connected to our anyway desyncing server. Without desync :-P 11:23:30 <planetmaker> and if a #ifdev __APPLE__ can be removed... that'd be nice 11:23:35 <planetmaker> s/v/f/ 11:23:57 <Eddi|zuHause> remofed? :p 11:24:49 <planetmaker> :-P 11:24:54 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@j104051.upc-j.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 11:27:00 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@j104051.upc-j.chello.nl] has quit [] 11:27:06 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@j104051.upc-j.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 11:28:13 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: 'g' option is missing :) 11:29:20 <Eddi|zuHause> (i knew that was coming...) 11:30:19 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 11:31:59 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: correcto, it was 4x10 and 4x11 11:36:42 *** welshdragon [~markmac@client-82-27-249-61.glfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:38:03 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 11:38:43 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 11:43:16 *** ptw [~ptw@78-20-245-126.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 11:45:36 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2D9D38.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:45:57 <planetmaker> frosch123: would it help to get more data on the desync issue? 11:46:17 <planetmaker> I could then try to have our server run in a version with --enable-desync-debug 11:46:18 <frosch123> planetmaker: you could try to reproduce it with yapf cache disabled :) 11:46:30 <planetmaker> is it a console setting? 11:46:38 <planetmaker> or does that need re-compile? 11:46:41 <frosch123> or you could fix the Dump stuff of yapf debugging which causes lots of invalid read, writes and segfaults 11:46:50 <planetmaker> he... 11:49:35 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/disableyapfcache.diff <- currently i expect you cannot reproduce it with patched client and server 11:49:53 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 11:51:06 <frosch123> hmm, so valgrind is fine with everything up to "DumpState(pf1, pf2);" 11:51:36 <planetmaker> both patched should not be reproducable you say, but same thing, if only one is patched? We could give it a try 11:53:16 <frosch123> disabling the caching only on the client should desync just as well 11:53:50 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8de8c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:56:28 *** SirSquidness [~sirsquidn@vps.sirsquidness.com] has quit [Quit: brb rebooting ] 12:00:25 *** KenjiE20 [~kenji@92.10.92.171] has joined #openttd 12:01:16 <planetmaker> Let's see. I can patch the server, too :-) 12:01:34 <planetmaker> Either I desync or not 12:01:45 *** SirSquidness [~sirsquidn@vps.sirsquidness.com] has joined #openttd 12:02:24 *** SirSquid1ess [~sirsquidn@vps.sirsquidness.com] has joined #openttd 12:02:32 *** SirSquid1ess [~sirsquidn@vps.sirsquidness.com] has quit [] 12:02:45 *** SirSquid1ess [~sirsquidn@vps.sirsquidness.com] has joined #openttd 12:02:46 *** SirSquid1ess [~sirsquidn@vps.sirsquidness.com] has quit [] 12:03:54 *** SirSquidness [~sirsquidn@vps.sirsquidness.com] has quit [] 12:04:21 *** SirSquidness [~sirsquidn@vps.sirsquidness.com] has joined #openttd 12:06:44 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 12:07:04 <Rubidium> planetmaker: I reckon that 'old' SDKs used Random; that define has been there since r1 and I reckon it wouldn't be added if it wasn't needed 12:08:16 <planetmaker> Rubidium: I reckon that, too... 12:08:35 <planetmaker> frosch123: I don't seem to get a desync from the server while all others do ;-) 12:08:44 <planetmaker> patches on server and on my binary 12:08:52 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@174.72.200-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd 12:09:03 <frosch123> nice, now fix it properly :) 12:09:21 <planetmaker> well... as usual some others finally manage to join, too 12:09:36 <planetmaker> he :-P 12:11:24 <frosch123> int CDECL AddFormat(const char *format, ...) WARN_FORMAT(1, 2); <- wtf is wrong about that? 12:11:34 <frosch123> src/misc/str.hpp:103: error: format string argument not a string type 12:14:00 <Eddi|zuHause> desync in yapf cache? maybe railtype related? 12:15:47 *** fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbab023.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:15:59 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: there are no rail types active in this game 12:16:25 <planetmaker> and the whole map uses only one (at least where trains drive) 12:17:16 <frosch123> since when do you use waypoints like in that savegame? i.e. without the actualy station order 12:19:01 <Eddi|zuHause> @openttd commit 10491 12:19:02 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Commit by KUDr :: r10491 trunk/src/yapf/yapf_costrail.hpp (2007-07-09 18:57:12 UTC) 12:19:03 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: -Fix [FS#988, YAPF]: When rail segment was cached using electric engine and it ended with non-electric rail it was incorrectly cached with the end reason ESRB_DEAD_END instead of ESRB_RAIL_TYPE. (Eddi) 12:19:04 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: - It caused YAPF to end prematurely there when it was searching for another path (for non-electric engine). 12:19:05 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: - It can lead to sub-optimal path taken or 'train is lost' message. 12:19:06 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: - In MP game it can also cause desync. 12:19:07 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: (...) 12:19:19 <Eddi|zuHause> @more 12:19:19 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Error: You haven't asked me a command; perhaps you want to see someone else's more. To do so, call this command with that person's nick. 12:19:24 *** welshdragon [~markmac@client-82-27-249-61.glfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: welshdragon] 12:19:34 <Eddi|zuHause> what?! 12:19:44 <Xaroth> dorpsgek doesn't seem to like you, Eddi|zuHause :P 12:19:55 *** KenjiE20 [~kenji@92.10.92.171] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:19:55 <frosch123> "Since non-static C++ methods have an implicit this argument, the arguments of such methods should be counted from two, not one, when giving values for string-index and first-to-check. " <- \o/ 12:20:08 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: also in principle ALL trains are the same here :-) We only transport wood ;-) 12:20:37 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF935B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 2.0.0.20/2008121709]] 12:20:46 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but maybe there's a hint on how it might be solved... 12:20:56 <planetmaker> agreed :-) 12:20:59 *** KenjiE20 [~kenji@92.10.92.171] has joined #openttd 12:29:02 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@174.72.200-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:29:12 <roboboy> gnight 12:29:42 <peter1138> brrr, cold fniggers 12:31:21 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@174.72.200-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd 12:35:02 <Eddi|zuHause> you should visit that forum... 12:35:28 <planetmaker> tsk 12:38:31 <peter1138> http://thereifixedit.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/129101309641736988.jpg 12:38:33 <peter1138> ... 12:38:44 <Xaroth> that'd be so awesome with snow 12:42:39 *** Ragzid [~Ragzid@173-231-207-85.jizmorava.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #openttd 12:45:48 <planetmaker> lol 12:46:42 *** Ragzid [~Ragzid@173-231-207-85.jizmorava.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has quit [] 12:47:03 *** Ragzid [~Ragzid@173-231-207-85.jizmorava.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #openttd 12:48:18 <Eddi|zuHause> my neighbours have something similar, just below ground... 12:48:56 <Eddi|zuHause> and each time there is big rain, they have a huge problem... 12:54:30 *** _33joe_ [c31c4b73@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 12:54:44 <_33joe_> hi 12:54:53 <_33joe_> someone alive ? 12:55:48 <TrueBrain> nope 12:55:56 <Rubidium> yes, but people don't react to those meta questions 12:56:28 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 12:57:24 <_33joe_> ok 12:57:24 <_33joe_> mám konkrétnu otázku : ako nastavÃm aby sa neaktÃvna spoloÄnosÅ¥ ponúkla na predaj aktÃvnemu hráÄovi 12:57:34 <_33joe_> bad widnow :D 12:57:36 <_33joe_> I have a specific question: how to set up an inactive company offered to sell an active player 12:57:36 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 12:57:41 <_33joe_> ? 12:58:14 <planetmaker> if not bancrupt: none 12:58:24 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-133-181.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 12:58:31 <planetmaker> as admin you could delete it 12:58:33 <TrueBrain> you understood his questions? Kudos to you :) 13:00:07 <_33joe_> thts shame, i do not want to delete comapnies thats are good, bud has no players 13:00:33 <planetmaker> maybe they come back again? 13:00:49 <planetmaker> they'd be even more annoyed if someone swallowed their company, I guess 13:03:42 <Eddi|zuHause> _33joe_: you can remove their password and let someone else play 13:03:50 <Eddi|zuHause> but that is dangerous 13:04:20 <_33joe_> so I get an offer to buy only if the company's bankruptcy? 13:04:29 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 13:05:43 <_33joe_> :( there shuld by an option instead of autoclean to sell comapny to an active player 13:06:05 <Eddi|zuHause> make it ;) 13:08:29 <_33joe_> ok, have a nice day 13:08:34 *** _33joe_ [c31c4b73@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 13:09:34 *** jthill [~jthill@pool-173-60-81-28.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 13:10:39 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.159] has joined #openttd 13:20:30 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:195b:cb61:4160:7f53] has joined #openttd 13:20:34 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:27:34 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 13:54:16 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:00:01 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dreamxtre@host86-169-136-90.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Nice Scotty, now beam my clothes up too!] 14:00:36 <Rubidium> planetmaker: http://devs.openttd.org/~rubidium/macosx-universal-error.log (Q.E.D.) 14:01:22 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 14:02:10 <planetmaker> oha :-) Thanks 14:02:46 <planetmaker> that's with the random re-defined, e.g. the #ifdef removed, right? 14:03:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Quite Extraordinarily Dumb :) 14:03:08 <Rubidium> that's with random2.diff 14:03:46 <planetmaker> ok. So... better random1.diff? 14:04:35 <Rubidium> probably yes :( 14:05:28 <planetmaker> well. I could investigate to find out when random() deprecates... but that'd basically mean to combine both with a #ifdef <version> 14:05:57 <planetmaker> and why didn't I get the deprecation messages? :S 14:06:14 <Rubidium> 10.6 dropped everything "quick"? 14:06:49 <Rubidium> especially x64 14:07:09 <planetmaker> there are iirc still some quickdraw things there 14:07:22 <planetmaker> though quite a few got deprecated 14:08:34 <Rubidium> still, it's just 'not available' for x64 14:09:17 <planetmaker> that'd explain. Now you mention it: yes, I recall that I read somewhere in the docs they also not plan to make it available 14:10:34 <Rubidium> "Important: QuickDraw is deprecated in Mac OS X v10.5 and later. QuickDraw is not available for 64-bit applications." 14:11:44 <planetmaker> yeah. Thus not on my machine 14:12:12 <planetmaker> thus no conflict and deprecation message. Hm, interesting. 14:12:15 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i should get the fast computer back... a video conversion job that took 20 minutes on the new one, takes 5 hours on the old one... 14:12:33 <planetmaker> So... random1.diff is it, I guess 14:12:44 <peter1138> stupid apple and their api game 14:12:58 <planetmaker> or would you say that it should check the target architecture? 14:16:36 *** jthill [~jthill@pool-173-60-81-28.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:17:51 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust443.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:18:06 *** fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbab023.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:21:53 * Rubidium wonders why quickdraw hasn't been dropped already; seems like most of quartz already existed in 10.2 14:26:52 <Rubidium> oh, some sites claim quartz is extremely slow with the stuff 'we' do 14:28:20 <peter1138> we're all supposed to use opengl these days 14:31:26 *** ptw [~ptw@78-20-245-126.access.telenet.be] has left #openttd [] 14:36:20 <Lakie> Even for 2D, peter1138? 14:36:28 <peter1138> yup 14:36:31 * Lakie thought openGL was more designed for 3D 14:36:50 <peter1138> you've never looked at the api 14:36:52 <Phazorx> Rubi/peter 14:37:04 <Phazorx> coopers desync seems to be relevant to train unloading 14:37:11 <Phazorx> are tere any randomization in it ? 14:37:19 <Lakie> I've looked at some of it, such as the raster systems and such 14:37:38 <Phazorx> and when exactly does profit calculation happen (as in start of unload or when it actually is done?) 14:38:21 <planetmaker> Phazorx: look at the station. If the PF uses a random number, the train unloads at a DIFFERENT station 14:38:30 <planetmaker> so that's quite plausible to look for the reason in the PF 14:38:58 <planetmaker> but a check might only occur then later... when the train arrived 14:38:59 <Lakie> houldn't all random numbers be the same, or does openTTD not check random numbers in action executions? 14:39:15 <Phazorx> planetmaker: unlikely it is the case 14:39:29 <Rubidium> Lakie: should yes, a desync is when that 'should' doesn't hold 14:39:42 <Phazorx> when trains where stopped, that one was already half way into platform 14:39:49 <planetmaker> Phazorx: then I propose you do a desync debug as frosch did. 14:39:52 <Lakie> Thats true, uses that randomm number as the check doesn't it. 14:39:52 *** KenjiE20 [~kenji@92.10.92.171] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:39:58 <Phazorx> planetmaker: i lack facility 14:40:09 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.10.92.171] has joined #openttd 14:40:12 <Rubidium> Lakie: yup 14:40:20 <Phazorx> mingw compiled oppenttd here crashes when i attach gdb 14:40:47 <peter1138> opengl is perfectly suited to 2D rendering... as long as all your images are powers of 2 :s 14:40:56 <planetmaker> you don't need gdb for desync debug. There's a wiki page describing what to do, Phazorx 14:41:10 <frosch123> Phazorx: the desync i debuged is a yapf/yapp cache problem which has nothing to do with unloading 14:41:12 <Lakie> Ah, that isn't true thogh, peter1138, tiles are 64x31 iirc... 14:41:13 <Phazorx> well my strtegy is also outdated then 14:41:15 <planetmaker> desync debug openttd tells you 14:41:34 <planetmaker> *googling for 14:41:48 <Phazorx> frosch123: which is why i am asking if randomization is used anywhere in that process 14:41:50 <planetmaker> as you need to compare client and server 14:41:59 <Phazorx> or there is something else happening which is not visible to me 14:42:12 <planetmaker> read that wiki page ;-) or compile with --enable-desync-debug 14:42:23 <planetmaker> and you'll know it all 14:42:43 <planetmaker> as it will tell you every single f***g random call 14:42:48 <peter1138> Lakie, exactly 14:43:08 <peter1138> Lakie, and, well, that's just tiles. other sprites are all manner of different sizes 14:43:16 <Lakie> True 14:43:26 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/dumptrainposition.diff <- Phazorx: the random thingie is only a later incident when a train throws an electric spark which is already stopped on the client or server. to see the actual desync you have to print the track the trains choose 14:43:53 <frosch123> i.e. when the random difference is detected it is already too late 14:46:43 <frosch123> at your dropoff station you let trains first decide for platforms 1-3 or 4-6. yesterday there was a train which decided differently at that point on client/server 14:48:04 <frosch123> well, depending on join date it were different trains at different dates, but always one of the dropoffs 14:48:30 <Phazorx> frosch123: i was told that the ONLY possibility to detect a desync for ottd is random calls hence my desire to confirm that there is a randomization involved in unloading process (to me that would be strange) 14:49:12 <Phazorx> based on that i'd be able to beter approach the isse, since if the active train is not the reason for it - reason must be somewhere else and there is no point to mess with the unloading train 14:49:36 <frosch123> there is randomisation involved in unloading, e.g. trains can rerandomize their graphics when unloaded 14:49:41 <frosch123> but that is not the case here 14:49:47 <Phazorx> "here" ? 14:49:58 <Phazorx> are you looking at current PSG too? 14:50:21 <frosch123> no, so did you encounter a desync again even with disable yapf cache? 14:50:58 <Phazorx> i'm not sure of pm "fixed" the server but i'd presume he did and it still desyncs 14:51:08 <Phazorx> however the case i am talking about is from yesterday 14:51:27 <Phazorx> when all activity was stopped and client joined fine as well as stayed w/o desyncing for a while 14:51:29 <frosch123> you also need to patch your client 14:51:47 <Phazorx> in attempt to figure out why, i sarted triggering trains one at time 14:51:53 <Phazorx> to see when people start dropping 14:52:33 <Phazorx> a particular case when a train, that was stopped half way into the platform, started unloading kicked everyone 14:52:40 <frosch123> anyway, i encountered only one type of desync with fs#3619 14:52:54 <planetmaker> Phazorx: I tested whether disabling the cache had a positive effect. All people desynced but myself (who I had the cache also disabled) 14:52:58 <planetmaker> I reverted the patch, though 14:52:58 <Phazorx> that looks like different one 14:53:10 <KenjiE20> pm; sucessfully tried it, but reverted, as it needs a patched client, which isn't much good for us..... ^ that 14:53:12 <Rubidium> Phazorx: the desync errors/kicks you get way after the actual desync happens 14:53:16 <Phazorx> planetmaker: did you rejoined after server was started? 14:53:30 <Phazorx> Rubidium: but only when there is something random 14:53:33 <planetmaker> well. Of course I have to join? 14:53:51 <Rubidium> Phazorx: unless a cache is incorrect 14:53:59 <Rubidium> or inconsistent 14:54:04 <Phazorx> planetmaker: if there are no server ticks between when you joined and when game started you wont desync 14:54:14 <Phazorx> so you have to rejoin after server starts going 14:54:23 <planetmaker> I wasn't first to join 14:54:28 <planetmaker> so there have been 14:54:41 <planetmaker> One other person desynced before I joined ;-) 14:54:57 <Phazorx> Rubidium Phazorx: the desync errors/kicks you get way after the actual desync happens<< which is why i AGAIN ask wether there is ANY randomization happening when train starts to unload 14:55:12 <fonsinchen> Is it known that the station view window does not cleanly shade? 14:55:24 <Rubidium> Phazorx: it isn't the randomisation that causes the desyncs! 14:55:35 <Rubidium> it's the randomisations that DETECT the desyncs 14:55:36 <Phazorx> Rubidium: but it is randomization that detects and kicks 14:56:02 <Phazorx> so it appeared to me that unloading train caused clients to get kicked 14:56:11 <Phazorx> which why i assume that it is the reason 14:56:22 <planetmaker> that's contradictory 14:56:24 <Phazorx> that assumption may only hold water if randomzation is used in ubloadin 14:56:40 <planetmaker> or inconclusive 14:56:50 <planetmaker> a tracer is not the cause 14:56:52 <Rubidium> it's probably more delivery to an industry 14:57:00 <Phazorx> it is inconclusive if you guys refuse to tell me if there is rnadomization on start of unload process :) 14:57:18 <planetmaker> Phazorx: because everyone would have to look it up, just as well you could do it. 14:57:20 <Phazorx> if you tell me there isnt - it's quite clear that the train is irrelevant 14:57:39 <Phazorx> Rubidium: does delivery to industry happens gradually? 14:57:47 <Rubidium> yup 14:57:51 <Phazorx> kk 14:58:30 <Phazorx> and i guess you imply that randomization is like between multiple possible destinations? 14:59:03 *** jpx_ [~jpx_@e83-245-141-68.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:59:05 <Phazorx> pm: we have funky station design there btw 14:59:28 *** jpx_ [~jpx_@e83-245-141-68.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:59:30 <Phazorx> each 4 platforms in group are from different stations, hooked to different sawmills 14:59:35 <planetmaker> Phazorx: did you read the flyspray ticket? 14:59:39 *** jpx_ [~jpx_@e83-245-141-68.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 14:59:46 <Phazorx> planetmaker: the cache one? 14:59:50 <planetmaker> You might then have noted that I made that statement there already... 15:00:08 <planetmaker> No the one with the pink oranges... 15:00:19 <frosch123> the more intesting layout is actually, that the dropoff station is not part of the orders 15:01:05 <planetmaker> hehe :-) 15:01:10 <planetmaker> that's by design 15:01:31 <planetmaker> but indeed it would be worth mentioning that, too 15:02:51 <Phazorx> would be interesting to know what Chris Sawyer would think about SRNW design :) 15:03:27 <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> opengl is perfectly suited to 2D rendering... as long as all your images are powers of 2 :s <-- and what if you just add transparent pixels to all sprites? 15:03:41 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, you have to, yes 15:04:12 <ccfreak2k> And what if you use ARB_texture_non_power_of_two? 15:04:46 <Rubidium> I reckon that Apple doesn't want to support that 15:04:50 <Lakie> It doesn't garintue to work with stock opengl. 15:07:27 *** Grelouk_ [~Grelouk@243.157.206-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd 15:07:33 <peter1138> anyway, we know plain opengl doesn't work with openttd 15:07:34 *** onemanbucket [~Administr@c-b7ade155.128-3-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 15:07:43 <onemanbucket> hello! is it alright to ask a noob question? :) 15:07:45 *** VictorOfSweden [~victor@c-5d7072d5.05-60-73746f23.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 15:08:07 <Alberth> try it 15:08:19 <onemanbucket> I'm trying to demolish a bus station, but I only get the message "Must demolish bus station first" 15:09:12 *** Intexon [58675045@widget.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 15:09:15 <planetmaker> sounds strange 15:09:26 <planetmaker> do you use the road removal tool or the dynamite? 15:09:34 <onemanbucket> i've tried both 15:09:40 <planetmaker> e.g. bulldozer vs. dynamite? hm... 15:09:49 <planetmaker> which version? 15:09:54 <planetmaker> of OpenTTD? 15:10:00 <onemanbucket> i think it's the latest one 15:10:03 <onemanbucket> i just downloaded it 15:10:03 <Rubidium> the bulldozer should work, the dynamite might not if the road's owned by someone else (IIRC) 15:10:09 <onemanbucket> and the bulldozer is greyed out 15:10:24 <Eddi|zuHause> you have to click "build station" before the bulldozer 15:10:40 <onemanbucket> Ah! that solved it 15:10:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the bulldozer turns "build XXX" into "remove XXX" 15:11:31 <onemanbucket> Didn't realize i had to select the build bus station command first 15:11:40 <onemanbucket> anwyay, now it works. thanks! 15:13:40 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@174.72.200-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:14:37 <ctibor> I have set pikkabird's basic industries parameter as pikkindw.grf = 1 in openttd.cfg according to wiki, to have food plant and brewery producing food in temperate, but it doesn't work. Industries still produce goods. Hasy anyone clue what the parameter should be? 15:16:26 <frosch123> if you do it in openttd.cfg it will only apply to new games 15:17:50 <ctibor> Just started new game and it still tells me, the same. Clicked on random Food processing plant and all I can see is goods 15:20:16 <planetmaker> ctibor: if you exited openttd, changes will probably have been overwritten 15:20:25 <frosch123> if you open the newgrf settings and select pbi: does it show the parameters in the infobox? 15:21:35 <ctibor> yes 15:21:38 <ctibor> it does 15:22:27 <ctibor> I see, i have old pbi version 15:22:35 <ctibor> 1.2 15:22:41 <ctibor> must upgrade so nvm 15:32:46 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd 15:36:56 <ccfreak2k> For those that missed it, this is what openttd looks like on a gamecube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9yxkLGkI3c 15:37:04 *** Intexon [58675045@widget.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 15:37:29 <ctibor> But now secondary industries are generated away from towns and cities... 15:38:10 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 15:40:20 <planetmaker> that's then how pikka wants it. It's a newgrf property to define where industries may be placed and where not 15:44:15 <ctibor> planetmaker: But it is definetely not placed according to the description on his wiki 15:46:41 <ctibor> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=32137&start=360 - solution is here 15:53:00 *** welshdragon [~markmac@147.143.254.98] has joined #openttd 16:03:40 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-f5f9e253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 16:05:00 *** DJNekkid [~thomas@static128-249.adsl.no] has joined #openttd 16:05:25 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Untenmaa, Utm AÂœ - Aja 35 Odota seis] 16:11:42 *** Boyinblue0 [~Boyinblue@94-192-250-36.zone6.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:17:35 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 16:24:08 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:24:49 *** heffer [~felix@HSI-KBW-095-208-017-052.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: heffer] 16:25:13 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 16:25:25 *** SirSquid1ess [~sirsquidn@li93-130.members.linode.com] has joined #openttd 16:25:32 *** SirSquid1ess [~sirsquidn@li93-130.members.linode.com] has quit [] 16:28:35 *** Goulp [~Goulp@main.goulp.net] has joined #openttd 16:32:36 *** Goulp [~Goulp@main.goulp.net] has left #openttd [] 16:42:28 *** Rygir [~masked@d5153986F.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:48:01 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@128.157.206-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd 16:54:20 *** Grelouk_ [~Grelouk@243.157.206-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:01:38 *** ajmiles2 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:03:24 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 17:08:02 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:14:24 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@188.126.201.8] has joined #openttd 17:18:47 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 17:22:58 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@188.126.201.8] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:24:45 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:30:53 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 17:32:01 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:40:10 <Eddi|zuHause> hm. so my 5 hour job is now 3 hours in, 44% done and has 8 hours ETA... 17:40:44 <Hirundo> When compiling from hg source, I can't join network games (without modifications) since the revision string is different 17:40:53 <SpComb^> Eddi|zuHause: final_estimate = initial_estimate * pi 17:41:32 <Hirundo> Could this be changed, so the svn revision is read from the log (only if possible, of course) and used as revision string? 17:42:28 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb^: in german we say "Pi mal Daumen" [pi times thumb] when something is an estimate ;) 17:42:51 * SpComb^ wonders how silly it would be to automatically tag each hg-svn commit with the svn rev number 17:43:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Hirundo: maybe you need to hack findversion.sh? 17:43:31 <Phazorx> http://qdb.us/301794 17:43:42 <SpComb^> well, findversion.sh already greps the hg log for the svn rev 17:43:55 <Eddi|zuHause> so why doesn't this work then? 17:43:57 <SpComb^> not sure if the revno is used anywhere in the build 17:44:04 <SpComb^> it's a separate output field 17:44:09 *** Phazorx [~pavelkoll@77.239.236.193] has left #openttd [] 17:44:25 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:45:45 <Eddi|zuHause> hm.. that quote is not funny... 17:46:14 <Eddi|zuHause> especially when read out of context, it's just senseless brabble 17:46:20 *** Phazorx [~pavelkoll@77.239.236.193] has joined #openttd 17:48:13 <frosch123> SpComb^: hg uses the svn revision for the "newgrf version" 17:48:23 <SpComb^> right 17:49:43 <planetmaker> Hirundo, if you output REV instead of REV_NR in findversion.h, it should work. Might need a test whether it is actually a (modified) svn version. 17:50:01 <SpComb^> it's missing the r prefix, iirc :) 17:50:24 <planetmaker> The latter is a bit tricky. As there might be several (hg / git) commits in a local repo, so that e.g only the 8th oldest commit corresponds to a (valid) svn version 17:50:27 <SpComb^> and no M suffix 17:50:44 <SpComb^> indeed, then it isn't a clean trunk anymore 17:51:02 <planetmaker> SpComb^, yes. h for hg and g for git 17:51:02 <SpComb^> but, if you were to tag each incoming svn commit in the hg-svn repo with the rXXXX name, then it would... work 17:51:11 <TrueBrain> problem with hg: your 'hg tip' can be a SVN version, while it is modified 17:51:18 <TrueBrain> so using svn version is not safe 17:51:41 <TrueBrain> SpComb^: not really, only if you would merge 'properly' in such cases, which nobody will :p 17:51:44 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, the modified state can be determined the usual way. 17:51:54 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: modified, yes, if the commit is not committed 17:52:00 <TrueBrain> where that is the idea of a hg checkout 17:52:03 <planetmaker> But yes, there's the chance to 'fake' a commit message with the svn rXXX 17:52:17 <TrueBrain> it is not detectable if there is a difference between current tip, and svn version 17:52:19 <SpComb^> TrueBrain: merge? 17:52:23 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: not even fake 17:52:28 <SpComb^> talking about clean trunk checkouts in hg 17:52:35 <planetmaker> I once had a patch for that as it bugged me, too, that I couldn't join servers without explicitly giving the rev ;-) 17:52:55 <TrueBrain> SpComb^: the problem is in detecting this 'clean' checkout of hg 17:53:07 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, yes, I know, there's no way to tell. You only have you hg repo, sure 17:53:09 <Ammler> findversion.sh could detect if tip has a svn changset, then it isn't modified and could use svn rev 17:53:30 <planetmaker> Ammler, I could make commits myself which then would be detected as such 17:53:35 <Ammler> else they should be modifed anyway. 17:53:47 <TrueBrain> Ammler: as I said a moment ago, no, you cannot 17:54:03 <TrueBrain> the 'tip' being a svn commit does NOT guarantee the hg is unchanged (with respect to the SVN) 17:54:22 *** woldemar [~osaka@213.178.34.57] has joined #openttd 17:54:24 <planetmaker> I don't understand that argument of yours quite, TrueBrain 17:54:34 <TrueBrain> I make a hg clone 17:54:35 <planetmaker> hg and svn of OpenTTD are synced 17:54:36 <TrueBrain> I make a few commits 17:54:38 <TrueBrain> I sync my hg 17:54:40 <Ammler> TrueBrain: but then somoene could need to make a commit with that in the message 17:54:43 <TrueBrain> the latest changeset can be a 'svn' commit 17:54:45 <TrueBrain> still, I have changes 17:54:48 <planetmaker> ah. got it. Yes 17:54:54 <SpComb^> `hg id` will suffix a + if there are local modifications 17:55:18 <TrueBrain> there simply isn't a stable and always-correct method to make hg and svn in 'sync', network wise 17:55:37 <SpComb^> TrueBrain: if your tip is a commit from the openttd hg repo, it can't have any modifications in it... 17:55:46 <TrueBrain> SpComb^: _if_ :) 17:55:49 <TrueBrain> there are very simple ways around that 17:55:51 <SpComb^> otherwise, it's a merge between the openttd branch and your custom stuff 17:55:57 <TrueBrain> which I used the first N months I used Mercurial, because I didn't know better :) 17:56:05 <TrueBrain> most people using Mercurial do not branch 17:56:08 <TrueBrain> they use the default to work in 17:56:18 <TrueBrain> after which a pull is applied on top of it 17:56:33 <SpComb^> won't it still end up being a merge commit as tip? 17:56:38 <TrueBrain> not perse 17:58:13 <planetmaker> uhm... but then those changes are not active, if you have more than one head, or? 17:58:28 <Hirundo> Isn't the parent revision of the working directory of more interest than the tip? 17:58:50 <TrueBrain> Hirundo: possible that gives more sane information 17:59:02 <TrueBrain> either way, tricky slope .. I would strongly advise to avoid such complexity 17:59:34 <planetmaker> hg parent is a good thing and better than tip, yes 17:59:55 <planetmaker> hg findversion uses it ;-) 18:00:13 <planetmaker> err... -hg 18:00:20 <TrueBrain> (git btw is even worse in all this) 18:00:30 *** Phazorx [~pavelkoll@77.239.236.193] has left #openttd [] 18:00:56 <SpComb^> `hg id` is the right thing to use 18:01:07 <SpComb^> "identify the working copy" 18:01:15 <Rubidium> hg/git repositories are made to ease development of external patches, not to use to build 'clean' trunk 18:01:52 <planetmaker> @commit 16462 18:01:52 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Commit by rubidium :: r16462 trunk/findversion.sh (2009-05-29 21:24:51 UTC) 18:01:53 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: -Change [FS#2930]: use a safer way to detect the hash of a mercurial repository (planetmaker) 18:01:57 <planetmaker> :-P ^ Hirundo 18:02:57 <SpComb^> isn't `hg id` available in old versions of mercurial, or why isn't that used? 18:03:05 <TrueBrain> hg id doesn't give enough information 18:04:01 <SpComb^> it should give you MODIFIED, REV, BRANCH 18:04:17 <TrueBrain> $ hg id 18:04:19 <TrueBrain> 657514b50c09 tip 18:04:29 <planetmaker> SpComb^, it doesn't. Just the hash, if not tip 18:04:45 <SpComb^> hg id -ibt 18:05:04 <Hirundo> ^^ it can show branches/tags/modifications 18:05:43 <planetmaker> question is: modifications with respect to what? To svn trunk will be difficult 18:05:52 <TrueBrain> to clean tip 18:06:01 <planetmaker> clean parent 18:06:01 <SpComb^> no, to clean id 18:06:18 <SpComb^> there can be two ids, but I guess that's only if there's an uncommited merge going on? 18:06:52 <TrueBrain> I hate the word 'parent' how mercurial uses it, it gives another suggestion to the function :p 18:07:22 *** aber [~Adium@p5B3268E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:07:23 <SpComb^> tip isn't relevant when dealing with "what's this checkout" 18:08:14 <planetmaker> hm, and we know how many revisions the trunk mercurial revision differs from the svn. 18:08:34 <planetmaker> thus we could see whether this repo has additional local commits 18:08:43 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: that only is true if you would have one branch 18:08:54 <planetmaker> in the hg repo? 18:08:56 <TrueBrain> yes 18:09:00 <planetmaker> yes. I know 18:09:14 <TrueBrain> so then it only works with a full clean checkout, which makes it all completely useless anyway 18:09:26 <planetmaker> uhm... not really 18:09:56 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has joined #openttd 18:10:30 <planetmaker> I could clone openttd trunk and get a version I can join servers with 18:10:46 <TrueBrain> still using subversion is more stable and sane in that case 18:10:51 <planetmaker> My modifications are anyway in other development repos ;-) 18:10:52 <TrueBrain> as Rubidium says, hg and git are only for development 18:11:01 *** Phazorx [~pavelkoll@77.239.236.193] has joined #openttd 18:11:15 <TrueBrain> either way, even in that case I think you can do stuff .. 18:11:18 <TrueBrain> in git for sure 18:11:22 <TrueBrain> now I wonder about Mercurial 18:12:00 <Alberth> there are wonderfull rebase extensions for hg afaik 18:12:01 <TrueBrain> SpComb^: 'hg id -ibt' is useless :p 18:12:07 <TrueBrain> hg clone ... && hg update -r 14551 18:12:32 <Ammler> or simply change $REV to $REV_NR in findversion.sh... 18:12:36 <TrueBrain> oh, nevermind, 'hg diff' doesn't show new files :p 18:12:48 <TrueBrain> Alberth: hgqueues are much more sane :) 18:13:01 <Hirundo> Hmmm... my openttd crashes in the code that is supposed to help me debug another bug :S 18:13:29 <Alberth> TrueBrain: still looking for a versioned variant of that :) 18:13:40 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, hg diff does show them - if added. But then an existing file is also modified 18:14:02 <TrueBrain> patric@smallbrain:/prog/openttd/test2.hg$ hg diff 18:14:04 <TrueBrain> patric@smallbrain:/prog/openttd/test2.hg$ hg status 18:14:05 <TrueBrain> A temp.txt 18:14:29 <planetmaker> Alberth, you can do that, versioned hg queues 18:14:32 <Hirundo> Alberth: it's perfectly possible to run your patches dir as a hg repo, effectively versioning it 18:14:42 <TrueBrain> a patch of a patch! WHOHO :p 18:15:08 <Hirundo> Indeed, interpreting the second derivative of the actual code can be a pain :) 18:15:12 <Eddi|zuHause> diffing diffs is funny ;) 18:15:16 <TrueBrain> something I refuse to do :) 18:15:27 <Alberth> sometimes it is useful 18:15:32 <Eddi|zuHause> you get a lot of rubbish when just the line numbers change 18:15:48 <SpComb^> there should be a diff tool for diffs 18:15:49 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, that's only valid for empty files 18:15:52 <Alberth> not so much to understand the changes but just to check there are none :) 18:15:56 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: still, wrong 18:15:59 <planetmaker> maybe also binary 18:16:14 <planetmaker> something which cannot be diff'ed properly 18:16:27 <planetmaker> But with a non-empty text file it shows diffs here of added files 18:17:19 <TrueBrain> why not for empty files? 18:17:21 <TrueBrain> at least tell about it? 18:17:24 <TrueBrain> it is a diff after all .. 18:17:34 <TrueBrain> (and yes, I do not agree with a lot of choices Mercurial has made :p) 18:17:53 <planetmaker> :-) WHY they chose to do that: dunno. 18:17:57 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 18:18:20 <planetmaker> Actually that's one of the things I didn't understand when I read about mercurial either 18:18:34 <planetmaker> as sometimes the filename itself can have a meaning 18:18:38 <Ammler> svn doesn't either, does it? 18:18:59 <TrueBrain> Ammler: it does 18:19:06 <TrueBrain> $ svn diff 18:19:07 <TrueBrain> Index: temp.txt 18:19:09 <TrueBrain> =================================================================== 18:19:28 <Forked> how did they compile the first compiler!? 18:19:41 <Forked> (I know, they wrote it in "machine code", you guys are no fun) 18:19:43 <TrueBrain> you really want an answer, or are you just trolling? 18:20:09 <Forked> hehe, I was at some point in life wondering :) I don't see it evolving like the chicken and the egg thing 18:20:11 <Eddi|zuHause> as opposed to the hen and egg problem, this really is an easy question :) 18:20:15 <TrueBrain> why would they have written it in machine code?! 18:20:36 <TrueBrain> punchcards for the win! 18:20:52 <Eddi|zuHause> of course before the compiler there was the interpreter 18:20:54 <Forked> don't bite! it was a non-relevant question. Sorry about the sort of trolling 18:21:12 <Eddi|zuHause> so you can implement a compiler in the interpreter 18:21:29 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: one could debate a punchcard reading is an interpreter :p 18:21:31 <planetmaker> hm.. what's the svn equivalent of hg forget? 18:21:43 <__ln__> of course they compiled the first compiler by saying "apt-get install build-essential" first! 18:21:47 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: good luck finding that :p Let me know when you do :) (except setting the ignore file) 18:22:03 <planetmaker> forget un-adds a file to be commited 18:22:22 <planetmaker> (but leaves the file itself untouched) 18:22:24 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: it is a bit stronger: it forgets about the file 18:22:46 <TrueBrain> (as in: it stops tracking it) 18:22:46 <SpComb^> planetmaker: hg del -R or such 18:22:57 <TrueBrain> but svn has nothing of the like 18:23:01 <SpComb^> rm -A 18:23:10 <TrueBrain> cp <file> temp.txt && svn revert <file> && mv temp.txt <file> :p 18:23:13 <ccfreak2k> If I invent some radically new traffic control structure in openttd, can I name it whatever I want? 18:23:28 <TrueBrain> ccfreak2k: no, it has to contain: Yet Another 18:23:53 <ccfreak2k> Then my next trick will be "Yet Another Widowmaker". 18:23:54 <Alberth> or 'improved' 18:24:03 <TrueBrain> or Not Another 18:24:11 <planetmaker> well. revert did the trick (though it removed it, too) for the nasty test file I added :-P 18:24:25 <TrueBrain> svn is dumb, when it comes to such things 18:24:44 <SpComb^> or something, I can't remember :P 18:25:08 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: you can do: svn rm --keep-local :p 18:25:40 <planetmaker> he :-) good to know 18:27:39 <TrueBrain> Forked: but to educate you a bit: most old compilers were first written in an interpreter, not in machine code 18:28:16 <ccfreak2k> Alright, I think I finally have joystick input tuned. 18:28:47 <ccfreak2k> Next item: pause. 18:29:24 <TrueBrain> lol, love reading the internet: the first compiler was a C-compiler <- BULLSHIT :p 18:29:30 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... shall i try to screw up my system by installing KDE 4.4? 18:29:36 <TrueBrain> yes 18:29:40 <TrueBrain> (I feel a Q-Ball now) 18:29:52 * ccfreak2k is running KDE 4.4. 18:29:56 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: better switch to xfce 18:30:03 <TrueBrain> xfce4 is nice :) 18:30:05 <TrueBrain> fast ... 18:30:16 <ccfreak2k> I lied, it's 4.3. 18:30:23 <SpComb^> pick up ion3 development 18:30:28 <TrueBrain> ccfreak2k: go sit in the corner now 18:30:35 <SpComb^> awesome is pretty annoying 18:30:36 <ccfreak2k> :( 18:30:45 <SpComb^> every time I download something with firefox, it completely messes up everything 18:30:46 * frosch123 uses xfce4 and kde4libs, but actually the kde4 tools in use (konsole and kate) are still screwed enough 18:31:09 <TrueBrain> frosch123: konsole? Why? Terminal (part of XFCE4) is much better/faster 18:31:14 <ccfreak2k> I don't use xfce, but I do think it's a nice tradeoff between *box and KDE/GNOME. 18:31:23 <TrueBrain> same for kate and the XFCE wordpad 18:31:48 <Hirundo> frosch123: It seems I'm having the same problems as you with the stuff in dbg_helper being broken. Shall I report my crash as a separate FS entry? (http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3619) 18:31:53 <TrueBrain> I use kdelibs for okular (pdf viewer) 18:32:08 <frosch123> Hirundo: just wait some seconds :) 18:32:16 * Hirundo waits 18:32:24 <frosch123> i need to cook up a message 18:32:35 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:32:37 <ccfreak2k> If I wanted to pause the game in code in sdl_v.cpp, what would be the best way to do it? 18:32:41 <Eddi|zuHause> but i like the bloat of ktorrent, konversation, kmail, amarok and others... 18:32:58 <TrueBrain> I still have no alternative of konversion 18:33:14 * planetmaker gives additional salt and pepper to frosch123 18:33:24 <planetmaker> (for a tasty dinner) ;-) 18:33:33 <TrueBrain> with eggs! 18:33:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i deeply loathe dolphin... 18:33:43 <planetmaker> yes. Quiche is with eggs :-) 18:33:49 <planetmaker> I still have half of one. 18:34:07 <frosch123> Hirundo: try again :) 18:34:26 <TrueBrain> still no CIA? 18:34:55 <Markk> I liked the bloat too. Before I saw this: http://cdn.solidfiles.net/i/snff.png 18:34:55 <Markk> <3 18:35:17 <Hirundo> thanks 18:35:25 <Markk> It's Ubuntu with Gnome and Elementary Desktop on that (with Docky2). 18:36:58 <TrueBrain> @whoami 18:36:59 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: TrueBrain 18:37:02 <TrueBrain> @reload XMLRPC 18:37:03 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: The operation succeeded. 18:37:16 <TrueBrain> @reload XMLRPC 18:37:17 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: The operation succeeded. 18:38:02 <Markk> @whoami 18:38:02 <DorpsGek> Markk: I don't recognize you. 18:38:04 <Markk> :< 18:38:08 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r19134 /trunk/src/misc (3 files) (2010-02-14 18:33:57 UTC) 18:38:09 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r16983, r17219): YAPF debug output was quite broken. 18:38:12 <TrueBrain> there 18:38:17 <TrueBrain> till CIA is back :p 18:38:52 <frosch123> you broke .notice, i committed it only once :p 18:39:05 <TrueBrain> see you in court :p 18:40:05 *** ajmiles2 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:43:22 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... and kaffeine still did not manage to get 1.0 18:44:24 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd 18:45:35 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r19135 /trunk/src/lang (6 files) (2010-02-14 18:45:24 UTC) 18:45:36 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:37 <DorpsGek> italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv 18:45:38 <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 2 changes by 18:45:39 <DorpsGek> norwegian_bokmal - 1 changes by mantaray 18:45:40 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:45:41 <DorpsGek> norwegian_nynorsk - 127 changes by mantaray 18:45:42 <DorpsGek> russian - 1 changes by Lone_Wolf 18:45:43 <DorpsGek> slovak - 199 changes by keso53 18:45:44 <DorpsGek> spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen 18:45:55 <planetmaker> Markk, that doesn't look like a linux desktop. Or is it? 18:46:01 <Markk> planetmaker: It is. :) 18:46:11 <Markk> Ubuntu 9.10 18:46:12 <planetmaker> can you tell me which one? 18:46:15 <lennard> sure it is 18:46:23 <lennard> its a gnome with some skin and stuffs 18:46:23 <planetmaker> nice one. A clone of apple ;-) 18:46:27 <Markk> 07:34:09 PM < Markk> It's Ubuntu with Gnome and Elementary Desktop on that (with Docky2). 18:46:35 <planetmaker> ah, missed that, sorry 18:46:38 <Markk> np :) 18:46:52 <lennard> the top panel is *very* recognizable :) 18:47:03 <Markk> :D 18:47:19 <Markk> Yeah, don't really like that panel, but can't really remove it. 18:47:20 <lennard> I don't know why you'd want to watch deal or no deal though... ;) 18:47:21 <planetmaker> lennard, not only the the top panel. Also the window decorations. And the app bar below 18:47:36 <lennard> planetmaker: the app bar is so not gnome 18:47:45 <lennard> not default anyway :P 18:48:00 <planetmaker> Well: I'm telling that it looks like my OSX :-) 1:1 18:48:00 <Markk> lennard: It's a MAD parody. :) 18:48:48 <Markk> The appbar is Docky2. 18:49:05 <Markk> http://www.elementary-project.com/ 18:49:13 <Markk> (It comes with elementary desktop) 18:51:40 <Markk> Now: Buy some tacos/burritos or something. :) 18:51:42 <Markk> bai 18:51:54 <TrueBrain> enjoy 18:52:00 <Eddi|zuHause> get a Döner... 18:52:02 <Markk> Thanks. :) 18:52:08 <Markk> Eddi|zuHause: I'm veggie. :) 18:52:20 <Eddi|zuHause> they have vegetarian döner as well... 18:52:35 <Markk> Isn't döner dönerkebab? 18:52:47 <Eddi|zuHause> only when you add kebab ;) 18:53:09 <Markk> :D 18:53:12 <Markk> Yeye, bye. :) 18:54:26 <TrueBrain> "You died" 18:54:28 <TrueBrain> yes .. that was clear to me too 18:54:47 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 18:56:50 *** fjb [~frank@p5485ACF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:01 <ccfreak2k> Going to use DoCommandP then./ 19:01:18 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: ptr_] 19:01:35 *** zachanima [~zach@90.185.77.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:04:44 <frosch123> TrueBrain: ok, Terminal does not have the first-row bugs of konsole. but you were not actually suggesting mousepad to me? 19:05:49 <TrueBrain> no, I was suggesting Editor 19:07:59 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@128.157.206-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:09:52 <frosch123> i cannot find something that matches "Editor". there are only mousepad and leafpad, and both do not qualify as editor to me 19:11:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yay kwin crashed on me and can't be restarted because of "segmentation fault" 19:11:45 <TrueBrain> not to program C, no, that is true :) 19:12:43 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@128.157.206-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd 19:12:46 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=855904#p855904 <-- frosch123 : like that ;-) 19:12:58 *** Boyinblue0 [~Boyinblue@94-192-250-36.zone6.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:13:06 <planetmaker> ? 19:13:15 <TrueBrain> ! 19:13:25 <frosch123> :p 19:13:30 <TrueBrain> :D 19:13:33 <Eddi|zuHause> ¡ 19:13:56 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i should move to australia 19:14:18 <planetmaker> don't. You might fall off the Earth 19:14:41 <planetmaker> everything's upside down there. 19:15:28 <planetmaker> http://flourish.org/upsidedownmap/mcarthur-large.jpg <-- see 19:15:33 <frosch123> planetmaker: exactly, upside down, including gravity 19:16:41 <TrueBrain> spooky 19:30:28 *** VictorOfSweden [~victor@c-5d7072d5.05-60-73746f23.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #openttd [] 19:36:36 *** Bluelight [~Ivan@9.80-202-82.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 19:44:45 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 19:47:40 <TrueBrain> "Your IP is selected as possible winner" 19:47:43 <TrueBrain> lol 19:47:57 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dreamxtre@host86-169-136-90.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:49:47 <planetmaker> scammy 19:50:03 <TrueBrain> it is like saying: this lottery ticket is selected as possible winner 19:50:19 <Eddi|zuHause> quick! install their program! 19:50:32 <planetmaker> and enter your bank account details. 19:50:59 <TrueBrain> how else are they going to pay me? 19:51:15 <Sacro> sex? 19:51:20 <TrueBrain> hmm 19:51:22 <TrueBrain> boobies 19:51:40 <Sacro> 'enter your phone number and we'll fax her to you' 19:51:41 <ccfreak2k> Pause works. 19:51:51 <ccfreak2k> I ended up calling HandleKeypress(). 19:51:57 <TrueBrain> oeh, and I can pause her! 19:51:57 <planetmaker> I'm somewhat sure I wouldn't want to touch theirs even with sanetary gloves and a long pike 19:52:07 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: LOL! 19:54:04 <Zuu> Lol, took me until title game 7 to realize that the two images of each title game was not just different moments in time but also one with OpenGFX and one with original graphics. :-D 19:54:18 <planetmaker> :-D 19:54:44 <planetmaker> There are even more than just two images ;-) 19:55:05 <Zuu> yea, for each resolution as well. 19:55:14 <planetmaker> makes kinda a difference 19:55:28 <planetmaker> Actually it's also interesting to listen to those games :-) 19:55:39 *** fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbab023.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55:41 <Zuu> Im first giving 0-5 for the small one and then another 0-5 for how well they look in a big view. 19:55:59 <planetmaker> No points for feature-complete etc? 19:56:13 <Zuu> That is included. 19:56:15 <frosch123> and negative points for bridges over the whole screen? 19:56:32 <planetmaker> long bridges? ;-) 19:56:56 <planetmaker> it's not necessarily bad. Depends IMO 19:58:07 <Zuu> The first 0-4 in 640x480 is mostly that they got all transport modes in screen and one extra if it looks good as well. 19:59:47 <planetmaker> :-) Well... I give also points for completeness in different rail types, signal types, drive-through vs. "normal" road stops, one-way streets and level-crossings closing on path signals ;-) 19:59:48 <frosch123> planetmaker: imo no part should be too big/dominant. so imo very long bridges, stations with 4+ platforms, long stretches of oneway-road, ... are bad :) 20:00:24 <planetmaker> frosch123, agreed :-) Still that doesn't exclude an ueber-long bridge. Just makes it less likely to fit 20:00:28 <ccfreak2k> Ok, zoom works too. 20:00:46 <ccfreak2k> I just need to add network support and figure out why writes are not being completed. 20:14:31 <frosch123> planetmaker: oh, and coop-style priority-signal cheating is also "bad" :) 20:15:49 <planetmaker> he, is it? ;-) 20:15:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i should have finished my attempt... 20:15:58 <planetmaker> Lucky me, that I didn't use it. 20:17:38 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 20:18:44 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, the game for v2 :-P 20:19:11 <Eddi|zuHause> ? 20:19:18 * frosch123 sets up his scores 20:19:39 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: when v2.0.0 is about to be released 20:20:04 <Eddi|zuHause> err... yes... certainly... 20:21:03 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i don't know what i just did, but the estimate just went from "1:33" to "7:34" (hours)... 20:21:47 <planetmaker> you slowed down. Quite obviously 20:22:25 <DJNekkid> hi OpenTTD'ers ... 20:22:33 <DJNekkid> i got a technical question ... 20:22:59 <DJNekkid> Im makeing a "new tracks" set, with some "limited speed" rails ... cheaper slower, faster and more expensive ... 20:23:12 <DJNekkid> i got vehicles that are defined to use the "fastest" type... 20:23:20 <DJNekkid> but the "inbetweens" are not available to build... 20:23:37 <frosch123> see the railtopic, that problem has been discussed 20:23:47 <frosch123> afaik there is no solution yet :) 20:24:33 <DJNekkid> not a proposed one either? 20:24:57 <Eddi|zuHause> has it been discussed how to handle pathfinder penalties for "suboptimal" railtypes? 20:27:43 <rhaeder1> hi. what was the link for finding my own tickets I have reported? I have now reproduced one (if you remember, the lost trains while mass maintenance) 20:28:25 <planetmaker> my searches -> tasks I opened 20:28:56 <planetmaker> ^ rhaeder1 20:29:13 <rhaeder1> hmmm nothing 20:29:25 <rhaeder1> but I found it. okay, it isn't that same bug :( 20:29:36 <rhaeder1> but nearly 20:29:55 <planetmaker> hm, it shows only open tasks 20:29:58 <rhaeder1> http://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?opened=1420&status[]= 20:30:04 <rhaeder1> I mean this link :) 20:30:42 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 20:33:07 <rhaeder1> uploading savegame now :) 20:34:41 *** octo [octo@if-loop.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:34:59 <rhaeder1> done: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3624 20:41:11 <rhaeder1> happened temporarily :( 20:41:19 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@nas46-24.york.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 20:42:48 <Eddi|zuHause> # what shall we do with the sleeping kittens 20:43:15 <Rubidium> something with a shredder? 20:47:04 <Sacro> shredder you say? 20:47:19 <Sacro> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aja7gcgRMJU&feature=related 20:48:02 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@nas46-24.york.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]] 20:48:17 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@nas46-24.york.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 20:50:03 *** jpx_ [~jpx_@e83-245-141-68.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 20:57:00 <Alberth> rhaeder1: I think you need more depots. I send all trains to a depot, and 3 trains didn't find one in time. 20:57:17 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@nas46-24.york.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]] 20:57:33 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@nas46-24.york.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 20:59:53 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@nas46-24.york.ac.uk] has quit [] 21:00:07 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@nas46-24.york.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 21:01:07 <frosch123> somehow nr.9 should be scrolled a bit more towards SE 21:06:37 <Sacro> frosch123: York aeh 21:06:40 <Sacro> er 21:06:45 <Sacro> Frankr: York eh 21:07:00 <Frankr> hello 21:07:02 <frosch123> what? 21:07:30 <Frankr> Sacro? 21:09:02 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [] 21:09:36 <Sacro> Frankr: just watching from a distance (hull ;)) 21:10:33 <Frankr> Ok cool 21:10:41 <rhaeder1> Alberth: okay 21:10:49 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@128.157.206-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:11:06 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@128.157.206-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd 21:12:10 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@nas46-24.york.ac.uk] has left #openttd [] 21:12:28 <Alberth> rhaeder1: also, I cannot simply reproduce a lost vehicle message with current trunk, it seems. 21:12:53 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@nas46-24.york.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 21:15:43 <Rubidium> it's probably just a network where sending vehicles to a depot brings them in a place where they can't find their way back or so 21:18:30 <rhaeder1> Alberth: I had it only once popping up but didn't return :( 21:20:04 <Alberth> we need a save game that reliably reproduces the problem, otherwise we spend forever looking for the needle in a hay stack, if the needle even exists. 21:26:44 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd4e1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:42 *** Frankr_ [~chatzilla@nas46-24.york.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 21:30:42 *** Frankr is now known as Guest2151 21:30:42 *** Frankr_ is now known as Frankr 21:37:45 *** Guest2151 [~chatzilla@nas46-24.york.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:45:22 <TrueBrain> feeding a pig bacon is wrong 21:45:53 <planetmaker> lol ;-) 21:46:20 *** welterde [~welterde@2001:470:1f0b:592:ff:0:1:3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:37 *** welterde [~welterde@2001:470:1f0b:592:ff:0:1:3] has joined #openttd 21:53:28 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Untenmaa, Utm AÂœ - Aja 35 Odota seis] 21:54:07 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@nas46-24.york.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]] 21:54:25 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@nas46-24.york.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 21:55:45 *** PeterT [~PeterT@c-65-96-203-35.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:00:24 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF935B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:05:44 <TrueBrain> SAPPERDEDOSIO! 22:08:51 *** PeterT [~Peter@c-71-233-211-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 22:09:01 *** PeterT_ [~Peter@c-71-233-211-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 22:10:00 *** PeterT [~Peter@c-71-233-211-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 22:11:28 *** PeterT_ is now known as PeterT 22:11:35 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:11:51 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@110.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...] 22:17:40 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has quit [] 22:18:47 *** onemanbucket [~Administr@c-b7ade155.128-3-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:21:33 *** Antigon [~Poly@n15-60.dsl.vianetworks.de] has joined #openttd 22:26:03 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 22:29:25 <TrueBrain> damn, you guys are boring 22:29:51 * Prof_Frink puts down the power drill 22:30:09 <TrueBrain> abuot time 22:30:14 <TrueBrain> that noise was ANNOYING 22:31:15 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust443.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]] 22:31:53 <Eddi|zuHause> you haven't heard that computer that i had... 22:32:05 <TrueBrain> I work in DataCenters 22:32:15 <TrueBrain> there is no noise your computer made that I haven't heard before 22:32:46 <valhallasw> TrueBrain, related: http://www.ted.com/talks/julian_treasure_the_4_ways_sound_affects_us.html 22:33:25 <TrueBrain> haha, doesn't work here :p 22:33:37 <valhallasw> oh my 22:34:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77D0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:10 <TrueBrain> sorry :) 22:34:43 <valhallasw> although not having flash could be considered a good thing 22:34:50 <TrueBrain> for me it does 22:34:55 <TrueBrain> lot of websites load MUCH faster :p 22:35:08 <valhallasw> hehe 22:35:45 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:49 <valhallasw> the disavantage, of course, is not being able to appreciate the awesomeness of some TED talks 22:36:10 <TrueBrain> "Alle voordelen hebben nadelen" 22:36:37 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77D0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:48:14 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF935B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:48:53 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF935B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:50:51 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 22:51:05 *** Ragzid [~Ragzid@173-231-207-85.jizmorava.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has quit [Quit: Ragzid] 22:51:41 *** welshdragon [~markmac@147.143.254.98] has quit [Quit: welshdragon] 22:52:21 <Zuu> A bit annoying that you need to "patch" flash to make it work good in a dual screen setup. Still not an option to leave out as it is required to watch web-TV on swedish television. 22:55:36 <TrueBrain> sounds terrible :p 22:56:38 <TrueBrain> hmm .. a 4:3 movie 22:56:41 <Eddi|zuHause> wait, they don't require silverlight? :p 22:56:41 <TrueBrain> that is a long time ago 22:56:59 <Zuu> The other option is to skip web-tv and get a real TV and pay the TV-fee and stick to the time table. 22:57:26 <TrueBrain> they really are that advanced over there? Impressive 22:58:00 <Eddi|zuHause> or the other other option is to fuck them and get the torrents... 22:58:03 *** IPG [~chatzilla@daisu.martos.bme.hu] has joined #openttd 22:58:06 <IPG> hi 22:58:16 <TrueBrain> hello 22:58:23 <Zuu> hello IPG 22:58:36 <IPG> I'm here first time. 22:58:54 <PeterT> welcome 22:59:38 <Eddi|zuHause> don't worry, almost everyone here once was here the first time... 22:59:59 <IPG> :) 23:00:15 <TrueBrain> almost eveeryone 23:00:17 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-16-169.A149.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 23:00:19 <TrueBrain> I am still not sure about Eddi|zuHause 23:00:22 <PeterT> IPG: You were on the IS2 server before? 23:00:24 <TrueBrain> I think he was created with the channel 23:00:25 <Zuu> Eddi|zuHause: Who in here has not once been here before? 23:00:26 <IPG> yes 23:00:35 <PeterT> IPG: The IRC channel is #jonty 23:01:42 <IPG> thanks 23:01:44 <IPG> :) 23:02:00 <TrueBrain> PeterT: stop stealing our users 23:02:20 <PeterT> hehe 23:02:45 <IPG> :) 23:03:02 <Zuu> Can't you two share the users? 23:03:08 <TrueBrain> NO 23:03:22 <PeterT> Share?! With #openttd?! 23:03:25 <Eddi|zuHause> "he will join us or die!" 23:05:12 <IPG> yesterday I changed 51 strings in wt... 23:05:24 <TrueBrain> whoho! 23:05:28 <PeterT> Oh, that's where I know you from! 23:05:36 <Zuu> Bravo! 23:05:40 <PeterT> I looked on the forums but couldn't find an "IPG" 23:05:51 <IPG> I'm Inga Papagaj on forum 23:06:05 <IPG> Cause I registrated years ago 23:06:11 <IPG> then, I was shortened to IPG 23:06:14 <PeterT> Inga Parrot? 23:06:31 <IPG> yes 23:06:53 <IPG> Parrot is a type of lok in Hungary 23:06:57 <IPG> V43-2xxx 23:07:29 <IPG> and the Inga means there is a controller car on the other end of the train, so you shoudn't deattach the lok when you are at the head station :) 23:07:38 <PeterT> IPG: There you are > http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/rev/c5eb2f2baf19 23:07:58 <IPG> yeha 23:08:30 <IPG> I changed some words to get more specifical.... 23:09:20 <IPG> i think the words should be uniformal... so if we use a word to a thing, to the same thing use the same word, but an other thing use another 23:11:00 *** Phazorx [~pavelkoll@77.239.236.193] has left #openttd [] 23:13:18 *** fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbab023.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 23:14:14 <PeterT> fonsinchen: What does the findstations patch do on your openttd.git repo? 23:14:42 *** Bluelight [~Ivan@9.80-202-82.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558]] 23:15:10 *** Antigon [~Poly@n15-60.dsl.vianetworks.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:16:48 *** PeterT_ [~chatzilla@c-71-233-211-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 23:18:57 *** IPG [~chatzilla@daisu.martos.bme.hu] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]] 23:19:14 *** IPG [~chatzilla@daisu.martos.bme.hu] has joined #openttd 23:19:25 <DJNekkid> dalestan: (or anyone else): Renum dont support Feature10 for action1 ... not hat it does for the others, but on this one it crashes 23:20:36 *** welshdragon [~markmac@147.143.254.98] has joined #openttd 23:20:58 <fonsinchen> I think it's outdated 23:21:12 <DJNekkid> outdated? 23:21:27 <fonsinchen> The findstations patch petert is talking about 23:21:38 <PeterT> What does it do? 23:21:47 <PeterT> add a search to station window? 23:22:07 <fonsinchen> it's an optimization for the tile loop that has already been accepted in trunk 23:22:08 <DJNekkid> i use r2300 of it 23:22:12 *** PeterT_ [~chatzilla@c-71-233-211-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 23:22:28 <DJNekkid> oh ... different discussion :P 23:22:44 <PeterT> Oh 23:28:11 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@nas46-24.york.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:35:08 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-122-132.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #openttd 23:37:13 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-254-113-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 23:37:27 <Nite_Owl> Hello all 23:38:19 <IPG> hi 23:38:30 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@j104051.upc-j.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:38:32 <Nite_Owl> Hello IPG 23:38:50 *** fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbab023.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:41:12 *** fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbc377d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 23:46:04 <PeterT> so fonsinchen, is it hard to update past the introduciton of zoom? 23:46:09 <PeterT> zoom for the minimap 23:48:27 *** Grelouk_ [~Grelouk@154.109.203.213.9lyon1-0-ro-bas-1.9tel.net] has joined #openttd 23:49:16 <fonsinchen> I have an update ready. Just merging everything together right now. 23:53:54 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-133-181.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:54:20 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@128.157.206-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]