Log for #openttd on 11th March 2010:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:14  <PeterT> Zuu: #jolteon
00:00:18  <Jolteon> advertising
00:00:19  <Jolteon> banban
00:00:28  <PeterT> Zuu: That's where the server is
00:00:31  <Jolteon> and join the server channel won't help him in any way.
00:00:41  <PeterT> Jolteon: You advertise all teh time :-P
00:00:50  <Jolteon> Now you just advertised it here
00:00:55  <Jolteon> Are you trying to get banned?
00:01:05  <Zuu> You could just have hit the upper limit of what is possible to handle.
00:01:19  <Zuu> Compare your game stats with eg. OpenTTDCoop end games.
00:01:31  <Jolteon> Is there a more efficient pathfinder than YAPP?
00:01:40  <Zuu> For ships yes
00:01:49  <Zuu> YAPP for ships is very CPU hungry.
00:01:59  <Jolteon> hm, let me open the cfg file and look
00:02:03  <PeterT> What pathfinder should we use for ships?
00:02:07  <PeterT> Jolteon: We can use !rcon
00:02:07  <OwenS> Jolteon: See . yes, PeterT is masochistic :p
00:02:32  <Zuu> PeterT: I'd say stick to what is recommended by OpenTTD. Eg. NPF or the original path finder.
00:02:39  <Zuu> Put boyus every 10 tiles or so.
00:03:06  <OwenS> People say ships don't need tracks. They lie. You instead place a buoy every tile, THEN add orders...
00:03:20  <Eddi|zuHause> Jolteon: small calculation, TT-original (1994) filled a 60MHz CPU with a mapsize of 256x256 with 360 vehicles. OpenTTD supports mapsize 2048x2048 with 65000 vehicles, that makes a factor of ~8*8*200=12800, *60MHz = 676000MHz
00:03:21  <Jolteon> hmm
00:03:34  <Jolteon> people on my server tend to just place a bouy to make sure a ship doesn't take a long way around an island.
00:03:42  <Jolteon> (which they like doing, for some reason)
00:04:02  <enr1x> oh, what exactly is the "cost of property"?
00:04:12  <enr1x> cost of everything I own (roads, depots, buses, etc?)
00:04:17  <OwenS> Because path finding for ships, in spite of it's stupidity, in spite of the fact there are no colissions.. is very expensive
00:04:21  <Zuu> If they like going wierd ways, then you probably don't use YAPP - which is a good thing in this case.
00:04:39  <OwenS> Think of it like the ships are traveling on a grid of fully filled rail tiles :p
00:04:55  <OwenS> That is, one with all the junction slots filled every square
00:05:02  <Jolteon> OwenS: I ain't no genius, but I'd have though pathfinding for ships was pretty simple, compared to like, an RV.
00:05:12  <Jolteon> That has to find a specific path to a specific place using pre-built road stuff
00:05:16  <Jolteon> a boat just needs to cruise an ocean.
00:05:22  <Jolteon> With minimal things in the way.
00:05:25  <Zuu> In fact it is the opposite in many cases.
00:05:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Jolteon: the problem is the ship has too many choices
00:05:48  <PeterT> enr1x: I've wondered about that...
00:05:49  <Zuu> for RVs and rail there is only a few nodes and long links between the nodes if you look at it at a more abstract level.
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00:06:07  <OwenS> Jolteon: As I said, the path finding for ships is like pathing across where there is a junction to look at, every tile, with 8 edges leaving it
00:06:14  <Jolteon> Eddi|zuHause: So block boats inside a canal, with zero choice would greatly reduce CPU for them?
00:06:22  <Jolteon> As they have zero choice, apart from to follow the canal in the first place.
00:06:52  <Eddi|zuHause> Jolteon: yes
00:07:18  <Jolteon> wait, does that mean that craply made rail junctions, where train tracks merge, as opposed to bridged / tunnels would use more CPU than otherwise?
00:07:24  <Eddi|zuHause> for YAPF at least. the original pathfinder limits the choices to 4, or so, then it just stops
00:07:25  <Jolteon> As it has to process if shit could hit the fan more?
00:07:41  <OwenS> Jolteon: Yes. Bigger blocks = More processing
00:07:47  <Zuu> Yep, you can create more CPU hungry rail/road networks if you want.
00:07:48  <OwenS> PBS is slower also
00:07:50  <Jolteon> ..oops
00:07:59  <Jolteon> my networks must cause a CPU to set on fire xD
00:08:07  *** Devedse [] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg]
00:08:14  <OwenS> Jolteon: Nah, thats our's (#openttdcoop's)
00:08:15  <PeterT> Jolteon: The CPU has been high?
00:08:29  <enr1x> PeterT: well, would make sense if the property maintenance is, well, the "whole property" maintenance, but the cost is so high!
00:08:32  <OwenS> (Though recently the cause has been the bloody Japanese houses set!)
00:08:50  <Jolteon> PeterT: After about 2050, when it's all ending and at max stuff, everything everywhere, CPU usage gets between 60 to 90%^
00:08:54  <Eddi|zuHause> like i said, you need a ~600GHz CPU to process a full map...
00:09:00  <PeterT> Jolteon: Wow
00:09:00  <Jolteon> Sometimes spiking up to 98, at seemingly random times
00:09:03  <Zuu> enr1x: about 500 pounds per transport mode per station.
00:09:06  <Jolteon> I'm guessing it's when OpenTTD is autosaving, or something.
00:09:19  <PeterT> Autosave + users + ships + lots of track and rail
00:09:21  <Jolteon> at the moment, it's a fairly empty map, uses no more than 15%
00:09:22  <PeterT> == Fail
00:10:04  <Jolteon> The good news is, BNCs only take like 1% CPU
00:10:04  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit []
00:10:11  <Jolteon> So we're not choking anything
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00:10:36  <PeterT> Zuu: Building
00:10:38  <PeterT> the
00:10:39  <PeterT> build
00:10:40  <PeterT> for
00:10:43  <PeterT> teh CargoDist
00:10:45  <Zuu> Jolteon: On a multi core CPU the spikes on autosave is just makeing a copy of the entire map structure so that another thread later can compress it and write it to disk.
00:10:58  <Zuu> PeterT: Nice
00:11:12  <Jolteon> Can certain GRFs increase CPU usage?
00:11:20  <Zuu> Yep
00:11:26  <Jolteon> Although, we only use different station graphics (Industrial, rural stations, etc) and Japanese Train Set.
00:11:29  <Jolteon> rest is default OpenGFX.
00:11:38  <Jolteon> wait no, japanese station
00:11:49  <Zuu> Those shouldn't be too bad I think.
00:11:50  <Jolteon> and a few other RV & Train replacement stuff.
00:11:57  <Jolteon> HEQs i think is the RVs
00:12:04  <Jolteon> PeterT: What are the GRFs used.
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00:12:09  <Jolteon> for the RVs & Trains
00:12:18  <PeterT> /msg Server !newgrf
00:12:20  <Eddi|zuHause> Jolteon: worst hit on CPU usage is ECS
00:12:28  <Jolteon> o rite
00:12:33  <Zuu> IIRC town replacement and industry GRFs can with restrictuive rules for building placement give a good bost.
00:12:37  <Jolteon> yeah, you can use what peterT said to get GRFs xD
00:12:41  <Zuu> boost*
00:13:30  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: No, Japanese Houses. They have lots of animated buildings. I'm not sure how they do it, but the CPU usage (About ~1Ghz of my machine!)  is ridiculous
00:13:46  <Jolteon> One thing I am surprised at, is how little bandwidth a server uses.
00:13:50  <Jolteon> alot less than I thought it would
00:13:57  <PeterT> Jolteon: What did you do to make the server's hostmask:  "" instead of ""?
00:13:59  <OwenS> (It seems to go up with the number of them in existance. I'm assuming the animation is done by lots of NewGRF callbacks...)
00:14:08  <Jolteon> peter1138: just reverse dns
00:14:15  <Zuu> Jolteon: That is because only the commands are transfered apart from the initial download of savegames.
00:14:15  <PeterT> Jolteon: How, what command?
00:14:20  <Jolteon> There is no command.
00:14:23  <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: don't say "No"... i have had ECS max out my CPU on an empty map!
00:14:25  <Jolteon> It;s some DNS screwing about.
00:14:33  <OwenS> PeterT: IN PTR
00:14:44  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Ouch. Still, JP Houses is awful
00:14:51  <PeterT> OwenS: What?
00:14:53  <OwenS> (And doesn't drop with animation off...)
00:14:58  <OwenS> PeterT: Correct DNS record :p
00:15:08  <PeterT> OwenS: where?
00:15:09  <Jolteon> OwenS: Why doesn't it go down with anims off? D:
00:15:13  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, because "no animation" doesn't actually stop animation
00:15:18  <Eddi|zuHause> only the palette rotation
00:15:23  <PeterT> That's just a user-side thing
00:15:26  <OwenS> It stops palette animation, but not newgrf callback animation
00:15:26  <Jolteon> PeterT: Unless you've hacked my domain registrar account, you don't have access to it.
00:15:42  <PeterT> Jolteon: I'm not trying to do it for you
00:15:59  <Jolteon> Be warned, any attempt to change the will result in ZNC auto-terminating your account.
00:16:12  <PeterT> [19:15:32] <PeterT> Jolteon: I'm not trying to do it for you
00:16:24  <Jolteon> (Unless you're on a network that allows hostname changes through nickserv, like FFSNetwork0
00:16:55  <Jolteon> nothing is more funny than being on a network that can give you spoof hostnames
00:16:57  <PeterT> Jolteon: How do you enable reverse DNS?
00:17:04  <Jolteon>
00:17:06  <Jolteon> so funny
00:17:16  <Jolteon> PeterT: by rtfm.
00:17:22  <PeterT> Wher?
00:17:41  <Jolteon> ...i give up.
00:17:43  <Jolteon> You're beyond help.
00:20:50  <OwenS> Jolteon: Congrats, you've learnt!
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00:21:11  <Jolteon> ..yay?
00:21:21  <nido> hello
00:21:52  <nido> can someone tell me if the 32 bit files and the extra zoom levels should be working in 1.0RC2??
00:22:16  <OwenS> nido: 32bpp works, but not the files from the extra zoom levels patch
00:22:19  <PeterT> No, Extra Zoom Levels isn't in 1.0.0-RC2
00:22:23  <PeterT> *aren't
00:22:38  <nido> darn
00:22:52  <nido> my network connection takes all night for the svn to get in
00:23:00  <Jolteon> Giant screenshot always crashes my PC :(
00:23:09  <Eddi|zuHause> the extra zoom likely will never get into official openttd...
00:23:21  <PeterT> Oh dear god, I hope it doesn't
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00:23:38  <Eddi|zuHause> Jolteon: giant screenshot can take over 4GB memory
00:23:55  <Jolteon> oh thats why
00:24:00  <Jolteon> My RAM is busy commiting suicide.
00:24:08  * Jolteon only has 3GB
00:24:36  <OwenS> Jolteon: Also, 32-bit PC?
00:24:53  <Jolteon> yes.
00:24:56  <Jolteon> 32bit XP Home
00:25:03  <OwenS> Then physically impossible to allocate enough RAM
00:25:18  <nido> anyway; I seem to have trouble getting the 32-bit working as well. I downloaded BaseSet.7z (I think), unzipped it with p7zip, tarred it up with tar, named it ogfx1_base.tar and put it in ~/.openttd/data . Now I can see it finding one tar file and 4k tiles at the very beginning, but  I don't think these are used in the game. (the tiles aren't found either after the fist search)
00:25:20  <OwenS> nopw   %cs:0x0(%rax,%rax,1) <-- Me thinks that GDB has disassembled not-code
00:25:23  <Jolteon> So basically, it crashes cause it's suiciding over the impossible request? :p
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00:25:46  <OwenS> nido: The packages for the extra zoom levels patch don't work with normal 32bpp
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00:26:47  <nido> OwenS: I know, but 32 bit graphics don't work either, with or without zoom. Or can't I see them on the regular levels either?
00:27:25  <OwenS> nido: The package you downloaded is for the extra zoom levels patch. You need a separate pack (Which, afaik, doesn't exist as an all-in-one pack) for normal 32bpp
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00:27:50  <nido> damnet
00:28:24  <nido> it's gonna be hard getting all that stuff together. deciding to learn packaging in the progress as well seems to be a bad choice
00:28:57  <nido> do you happen to know one page with all the links?
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00:29:32  <Jolteon> OwenS: so basically, to take a giant screenshot, I need 64bit + 4GB RAM (or higher)?
00:29:45  <Eddi|zuHause> IMHO, the 32bpp project is heading in a very wrong direction for a long time
00:30:07  <Eddi|zuHause> Jolteon: no, you need to play smaller maps
00:30:18  <Jolteon> I play 512 x 512
00:30:25  <Jolteon> or on the server, 1026 x 1026
00:30:35  <Jolteon> (if wrong, correct to the nearest correct size)
00:30:47  <nido> why not 1024...nm
00:30:48  <OwenS> 1024x1024 :P
00:31:35  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, with 512x512 it should be possible, but i'm not sure
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00:32:21  <PeterT> Grr, stupid quit messages
00:33:12  <Jolteon> OwenS: yes, that :p
00:33:17  <Starn> PeterT did i fix mine where it did not advertise anything?
00:33:32  <PeterT> i don't know, Starn
00:33:41  <enr1x> also, i have built a coal mines -> power station, but the coal is loaded very slowly
00:33:46  <enr1x> is there any way to speed up?
00:34:18  <Starn> than i shall test. heh
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00:35:42  <PeterT> Starn: fixed, good
00:35:54  <Starn> alright
00:36:01  <PeterT> enr1x: turn off gradual loading in advanced settings
00:36:18  <Starn> don't want it adverstising a script that i've heavely modified to began with lol
00:37:03  <enr1x> PeterT: thanks!
00:37:27  <PeterT> enr1x: np
00:37:28  <enr1x> ok, gotta go to sleep, see you guys soon, and thanks for all the (great) help =)
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00:59:33  <Starn> um... do any of you have ipod and has it crashed to point it says itunes is needed to restore it? and it makes sounds like hard drive is spinning than stops than spins again than stops?
01:04:40  <PeterT> Not like that
01:04:44  <PeterT> is it jailbroken?
01:04:51  <PeterT> Also, ##iphone on FreeNode
01:04:51  <Starn> nope
01:05:02  <Starn> not unless walmart sells jailbroken ones
01:05:07  <aber> the hard drive crashed?
01:05:09  <PeterT> Ok
01:05:20  <Starn> seems itunes software fixed it.. o.O
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01:13:53  <Starn> is free node address
01:14:53  <PeterT>
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01:24:11  <Starn> PeterT| are they even alive over there? o.O
01:24:55  <Starn> some how i had an irc nick over there dunno how o.o
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01:33:21  <Jolteon> Gosh darnit
01:33:28  <Jolteon> My towns have stopped growing D:
01:33:38  <Jolteon> is that a setting that stops them growing after they reach a certain size?
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01:37:44  <PeterT> Starn: Hmm
01:37:46  <PeterT> Just wait
01:37:48  <PeterT> Jolteon: No
01:39:14  <Jolteon> opoo
01:39:20  <Jolteon> ah well
01:39:26  <Jolteon> Year is 7610 in this single player game
01:39:32  <Jolteon> Time to start a new one, don't you think?
01:39:52  <Jolteon> naw joking, it's only 2318 :P
01:40:40  <PeterT> Lol
01:40:56  <PeterT> 11 May 2300 is the date for #openttdcoop's publicsever
01:40:58  <PeterT> *server
01:42:46  <Starn> ugh they don't seem to be replying though itunes seemed to fixed everything i hope.... just had to restore it to factory . no i am waiting for 10k songs to sync :'( shoot me or run me over with a train
01:43:57  <Starn> can we make little people in openTTD to run over with trains?
01:45:38  <Jolteon> rofl
01:45:45  <Jolteon> I'd love to see pedestrians walking in OpenTTD
01:45:50  <Jolteon> but I guess that'd totally flatten the CPU
01:45:58  <Starn> dunno...
01:46:35  <Starn> 8bit gfx.. i could make the gfx for the people... and i doubt it would hurt cpu
01:47:06  <Jolteon> but so much animations
01:47:09  <Starn> they have games that use 3d models for 1000's of tiny people on the screen at one time.. even open source games..
01:47:30  <Starn> nah no need to animate them :P
01:47:43  <Starn> the would probably look more like simants
01:48:09  <Jolteon> also
01:48:15  <Jolteon> WHAT THE F**K was I thinking when I made this
01:48:16  <Jolteon> Seriously
01:48:19  <Jolteon> was I on drugs or something
01:48:49  <Starn> your tracks have confused me..
01:49:12  <Jolteon> Yeah, i was just looking over my (admittedly crap) network, and i got to that
01:49:16  <Jolteon> and I was like "what the blazes"
01:49:19  <PeterT> you were being super silly </lisp>
01:49:38  <Starn> i am never being an engineer for your trains o.o
01:49:45  <Starn> i would get lost
01:50:17  <Jolteon>
01:50:21  <Jolteon> Same thing, but more zoomed out
01:50:42  <Jolteon> Which shows even more crap
01:50:58  <Jolteon> I must have been off my tits on something when I made that.
01:51:57  <Starn> i would not mind being a bus driver to your roads o.o
01:52:03  <Starn> simple to follow ^^
01:52:22  <Starn> <--- be the one speeding with 30 passangers screaming for their lives
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01:53:16  <Starn> and if you had airlines dont let me fly the 747 for i have issues flying them and when i do get them i nthe air i get bored and climb to highest possible altidude than do a nose dive trying to break the sound barrier o.o
01:53:24  <Starn> with full load
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01:53:47  <Jolteon> Buses here always try to go at the max speed they're allowed to go on flat areas.
01:54:39  <PeterT> See that?
01:54:43  <PeterT> I just lost internet connection
01:54:51  <Starn> o.O
01:54:51  <PeterT> but my awesomez bnc keeps me here
01:55:01  <Starn> bnc?
01:55:08  <Jolteon> bouncer
01:55:09  <PeterT> bnc.
01:55:27  <Jolteon> oh screw this terrain generated
01:55:31  <Jolteon> 'very flat' my rear.
01:55:36  <Jolteon> My manboobs are flatter than this.
01:55:37  <Starn> lol
01:57:14  <Starn> now i wanna get into source and add a new terrian generation level.. [ Jolteon manboobs]
01:57:38  <Jolteon> :p
01:58:01  <Jolteon> Would be nice if there was a generator that made no hills at all, apart the occasional dips for some water.
01:58:02  <Starn> i would probably use it :P
01:58:27  <Starn> i am ok with some hills...
01:58:35  <Starn> makes me feel more like i am in my state :P
01:58:49  <Starn> mostly flat but there be some big hills here and there.
01:59:02  <Starn> i mean big o.o
01:59:07  <Jolteon> Bleh
01:59:10  <Jolteon> the new start screen annoys me
01:59:12  <Jolteon> so unrealistic.
01:59:19  <Jolteon> Maglev right next to steam trains using semaphores.
01:59:20  <Jolteon> wtf.
01:59:38  <Jolteon> Not to mention hovercraft using a little river.
01:59:40  <Jolteon> Deathwish much.
02:00:55  <Jolteon> Anyway, i'll stop tormenting you and go to bed now.
02:00:56  <Jolteon> Cheerioguys
02:01:37  <Starn> lol
02:01:43  <Starn> night mate.
02:01:49  <Starn> i am prob going to bed to..
02:02:57  <Starn> besides its gonna take another hour to finish syncing my music to my ipod.
02:03:08  <PeterT> Jolteon: this is the webcam feature on PublicServer
02:03:09  <PeterT>
02:03:25  <PeterT> It takes periodic screenshots and symlinks them to /var/www...
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04:54:36  <DaleStan> planetmaker: I added Action0Railtypes to the structure, finally, but I can't find the other page you wanted me to add.
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07:55:00  <planetmaker> DaleStan: (you meant that, right?)
07:55:51  <planetmaker> DaleStan: The VarAction2Airporttiles does not exist - I merged it into - maybe that page can be renamed accordingly to VarAction2IndustryAirportTiles?
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09:10:13  <dih> morning
09:10:20  <peter1138> yes it is
09:11:35  <dih> orudge: ping ;-)
09:21:47  <orudge> dih: pong
09:25:18  <dih> orudge: tt-forums question
09:25:41  <dih> is it possible to enable replying to a private message, even if the person who sent the message does not accept pm's?
09:25:51  <dih> or rather: is it possible to enable that?
09:26:08  <peter1138> planetmaker, easy to define
09:26:09  <dih> i received a private message from Timmaexx and cannot reply
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09:30:03  <planetmaker> peter1138, yes, most probable. I just wanted to make sure that it is prepared for that in the 1st place
09:30:17  <peter1138> planetmaker, 0 = normal
09:30:23  <peter1138> 1 = zoomed out 1 level
09:30:29  <planetmaker> or our zoom-level people will run away crying ;-)
09:30:33  <peter1138> extra zoom can piss off ;)
09:30:38  <planetmaker> :-P
09:30:55  <planetmaker> Well. We shouldn't make the specs such that it will become a pain
09:31:10  <peter1138> -1 would be zoomed in 1 level
09:31:37  <peter1138> or: specify the size in pixels
09:31:51  <peter1138> normal = 64
09:31:55  <planetmaker> something like that. Size in pixels sounds awesome
09:31:55  <peter1138> zoomed out 1 = 32
09:31:59  <peter1138> zoomed in 1 = 128
09:32:13  <peter1138> freaky shit that would need lots of coding to work = 96
09:32:27  <planetmaker> hehe, yes :-)
09:32:52  <planetmaker> But that's - just from this quick recap - the option which opens most future possibilities
09:33:17  <planetmaker> Similar to simutrans' pak "size" which can also define different tile sizes
09:34:17  <planetmaker> Also it wouldn't need coding now, but *someone* of the zoom-level freaks would need to come up with a decent implementation ;-)
09:39:45  <OwenS> brr cold
09:40:16  <OwenS> Theres a big hole in the front wall where there used to be a window
09:43:43  <orudge> dih: I guess not, if they've got it disabled
09:44:29  <planetmaker> tsk. It's not the time of year to remove windows just for the sake of the complexion ;-)
09:49:07  <OwenS> planetmaker: Replacement...
09:49:11  <dih> orudge: and there's no plugin? :-P
09:49:32  <orudge> I may be able to send a PM if you can't
09:49:36  * OwenS wonders why phpBB doesn't prohibit sending if you're not allowing reception :p
09:49:42  <orudge> if you PM me with what you want send to whom, I can probably do it
09:50:07  <dih> na - did not want to start that :-P else you'd never get a rest....
09:50:19  <dih> if there is no other way that's just gonna be touch luck
09:50:33  <dih> *tough
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10:05:25  <peter1138> planetmaker, would need to be a word, to support > 255 pixels
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10:09:19  <planetmaker> yes, I know. I just wonder whether that's needed. But I guess it doesn't hurt.
10:09:27  <planetmaker> Those few bytes won't kill anyone or anything
10:09:43  <peter1138> well, current extra zoom is 256, isn't it?
10:10:11  <planetmaker> I've no real clue. I never really looked at that patch. I think it's twice the usual size, but I can't tell for sure
10:12:26  <peter1138> The Extra Zoom Project adds the following features to the game:
10:12:27  <peter1138> * Two extra zoom-in levels
10:12:33  <peter1138> so it's 4x
10:12:57  <peter1138> i don't like it myself, mind you
10:13:09  <Rubidium> aren't the current sprites in 'reality' 63 high?
10:13:30  <Rubidium> or wide or whatever
10:13:39  <peter1138> no
10:13:44  <peter1138> 64x31
10:25:04  <dih> find is a bitch!
10:26:51  <peter1138> bah, it's not lunch time yet
10:27:01  <planetmaker> oh yes, it is.
10:27:03  <dih> nope :-(
10:27:12  <dih> when do you have lunch pm?
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10:27:15  <planetmaker> we go for lunch at 11:30h...
10:27:33  <planetmaker> so in 5 minutes ;-)
10:28:42  <dih> yikes
10:28:46  <dih> that's early :-P
10:30:20  <peter1138> gives you a longer afternoon for you siesta
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10:32:06  <dih> peter1138: only if you are able to siesta...
10:32:11  <dih> but if you work.....
10:32:24  <dih> and it also gives you a longer afternoon without another food break
10:32:33  <dih> unless you have early tee & coffee brakes
10:32:39  <dih> *breaks
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11:13:20  <planetmaker> hehe, yes. There'll be a cake and coffee break later :-)
11:15:01  <peter1138>
11:20:08  <Noldo> :]
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11:28:20  <Rubidium> peter1138: what's best of firefox's gc is that it gives you lost time back
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11:33:30  <Terkhen> hello
11:35:51  <PeterT> Hello Terkhen
11:36:26  <planetmaker> hello Terkhen
11:48:44  <planetmaker> Rubidium, wouldn't it make sense to link to nforenum / grfcodec / catcodec at least on ?
11:48:57  <planetmaker> Those links are quite hard to find, if one doesn't know them.
11:49:26  <PeterT> Probably should make a diff to
11:50:15  <PeterT> planetmaker: It doesn't really fit with compiling, getting the source code, or translating
11:50:24  <PeterT> Or finding bugs
11:50:42  <planetmaker> It fits the title 'development' quite well
11:50:56  <planetmaker> And could well be a separate sub-section on that page
11:51:24  <planetmaker> Like 'Modding' or 'Writing Extensions'
11:51:40  <PeterT> Writing Extensions sounds good
11:57:10  <Rubidium> well, write a patch :)
11:58:08  * planetmaker hopes that PeterT will do just that :-)
12:01:38  <Ammler> the wiki might help....
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12:08:14  <peter1138> ah, shortsighted updates :s
12:09:09  <dih> Yexo: ^
12:09:17  <dih> :-P
12:09:25  <dih> that would fit just perfectly :-P
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12:36:00  <Eddi|zuHause> Train::GetCurveSpeedLimit() is a weird function...
12:36:33  <Eddi|zuHause> it iterates "sum += pos - lastpos;"
12:36:43  <Eddi|zuHause> which looks like a telescope sum
12:37:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. it could be simplified to "sum = endpos-beginpos"
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12:38:06  <Eddi|zuHause> and it's full of magic numbers
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12:43:17  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I think that whole function needs a rethinking
12:43:48  <peter1138> it does
12:44:10  <Rubidium> when using 1/8 long wagons you probably won't hit the curve speed limited as fast as when you use 8/8 long wagons
12:44:11  <peter1138> curve "sharpness" depends on wagon length
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12:54:40  <Eddi|zuHause> curve speed shouldn't depend on the vehicle at all [except tilting]
13:02:10  <planetmaker> he, then the property 11 description needs a note that it's only correct for 8/8 wagons
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13:07:16  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, but it does
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13:18:12  <peter1138> oops, i just wrote a function that accepts char *... in c# :s
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13:36:21  <fjb> But longer wagons usually need longer curves.
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13:52:01  <Emzzzz> do my tits look big?
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13:57:47  <glx> !ban Emzzzz!*@*
13:58:08  <glx> @ban Emzzzz!*@*
13:58:22  <glx> @whomai
13:58:26  <glx> @whoami
13:58:26  <DorpsGek> glx: glx
13:58:40  *** mode/#openttd [+o glx] by DorpsGek
13:59:06  *** mode/#openttd [+b Emzzzz!*@*] by glx
13:59:16  *** mode/#openttd [-o glx] by DorpsGek
14:04:12  <KenjiE20> heh
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14:08:35  <Ammler> glx: don't expect it joining a 2nd time ;-)
14:08:41  *** Wizzleby [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:08:51  <glx> Annabanz did it many time
14:09:01  <KenjiE20> seems to change at midnight
14:09:39  <Belugas> hello
14:09:49  <Ammler> Hoidu
14:09:57  <KenjiE20> o/
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14:19:02  <SmatZ> @kban Emzzzz!*@*
14:19:02  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Error: Emzzzz!*@* is not in #openttd.
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14:21:03  <Starn> sorry client keeps trying to change my name.
14:21:44  <glx> SmatZ: it's @ban add indeed
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14:24:22  <SmatZ> glx: oh :)
14:27:58  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... if i change _current_company in the tileloop, do i have to take care about setting it to what it was before?
14:28:33  <Eddi|zuHause> or can i assume that anything that uses _current_company sets it to a defined state first?
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14:48:33  <enr1x> hello everyone
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15:57:36  <enr1x> i have a problem: i have a line of trains, which goes to a coal mine called a, then to a coal mine called b, and then unloads in power station, However, it stays in each station for at least three days, even if it's loaded/unloaded
15:57:45  <enr1x> is there any way to immediately leave each station?
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15:58:41  <Rubidium> sounds like the train is using a timetable
15:58:48  <enr1x> Rubidium: it is not
15:58:58  <Rubidium> or it's way too long for the station
15:59:02  <enr1x> well, not explicit (does the machine autogenerate them)?
15:59:06  <enr1x> the train is too long? could be
15:59:11  <enr1x> it has like ten trucks attached
15:59:14  <Rubidium> besides that I wouldn't know without a savegame
15:59:26  <Rubidium> enr1x: and the station is 6 tiles or more long?
16:00:10  <enr1x> it is just one tile
16:00:24  <enr1x> does that affect the loading process? i will enlarge it, then
16:01:04  <Rubidium> yes that does affect the loading/unloading speed (quite dramatically)
16:01:48  <enr1x> ok, let me try with longer stations (thanks for the tip)
16:02:30  <enr1x> maybe i am too exaggerated: that train loads 150tones of coal in one station, goes to the next one, to load 150 more, and then unload everything in the power station, might be crazy :)
16:03:57  <enr1x> Rubidium: i have saved the game, are you interested in having a look?
16:04:18  <enr1x> i'm still a n00b (began playing openttd yesterday night)
16:06:40  <Rubidium> I think I can fairly well imagine the kind of network you've got (based on what I've seen on youtube)
16:06:53  <Rubidium> but feel free to allow me to confirm that :)
16:08:34  <enr1x> Rubidium: you have a dcc file send request
16:09:18  <enr1x> Rubidium: thanks in advance :)
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16:12:00  <Rubidium> dcc doesn't seem to work
16:12:17  <enr1x> Rubidium: no worries, let me upload it to my ftp
16:12:31  <Rubidium> 17:10 [OFTC] DCC SEND from enr1x [ port 0]: enr1xsavegame.tbz2 [107kB]
16:13:00  <Jolteon> DCC never works :o
16:13:07  <Rubidium> ^ that doesn't look like a valid IP/port combination
16:14:00  <SpComb^> is routeable
16:14:16  <SpComb^> curiously, the last hop for me is ...
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16:27:29  <Jolteon> Can towns in sub-tropical grow to the same size as temperate?
16:32:59  <Jolteon> Er
16:33:08  <Jolteon> Why do I get a message about no suitable AIs when I change amount of towns?
16:33:08  <Jolteon>
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16:33:58  <Rubidium> Jolteon: check bugs
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16:35:05  <Jolteon>
16:35:05  <Jolteon> I lol'd
16:36:47  <dih> :-P
16:37:18  <dih> some people have way too much time
16:37:47  <Rubidium> it's actually that the change of the amount of towns triggers the [easy/medium/high]->custom difficulty and the difficulty change triggers the "is the given amount of AIs going to work?"-check
16:41:49  <Jolteon> hm, i thought of something that'd be nice. (Well, nice IMO)
16:42:09  <Jolteon> Advanced Profit Listing, says exactly where the profit is coming from, Freight, Pax, etc.
16:43:34  <Rubidium> that's quite tricky if not impossible
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17:03:34  <Jolteon> Rubidium: ah.
17:03:48  <Jolteon> I was presuming it was just making an internal list of what frieght is (anything not passengers)
17:04:03  <Rubidium> that's the easy part
17:04:30  <Jolteon> by the way, is it possible to load a saved game onto a scenario editor? (I basically want to cheat and hit the expand town button a few times)
17:04:31  <Rubidium> the hard part is determining how much of the interest etc. has to be deducted from the numbers to get their profit
17:04:36  <Jolteon> It seems to have died and buildings disappeared D:
17:05:07  <Jolteon> ah, more complex math then.
17:05:45  <Jolteon> I thought it was holding ctrl or something to load a saved game into the scenario editor, maybe that was TTDP though
17:07:13  <Rubidium> Jolteon: rename the file to .scn
17:07:30  <Jolteon> That won't cause any major issues when I rename it back to play it normally?
17:07:42  <Jolteon> Using 1.0.0 RC2 :p
17:07:53  <Rubidium> nope
17:07:58  <Jolteon> ah, pretty neat.
17:08:27  <Rubidium> well, maybe it does 'boom' when you save a scenario without towns
17:08:36  <Rubidium> and load that as a savegame
17:20:39  <Jolteon> bleh.
17:20:59  <Jolteon> Wish I knew how to make a generater than understood flat meant flat.
17:21:03  <Jolteon> that understood*
17:21:14  <Jolteon> Very Flat still has numerous hills.
17:21:36  <Rubidium> and what's the variety distribution value?
17:21:49  <Jolteon> er, let me check
17:21:58  <Jolteon> I don't know what half of those things do :p
17:22:24  <Jolteon> Variety Distribution: Non
17:22:46  <Rubidium> odd
17:24:06  <Jolteon> Rubidium: this is with it on 'non'
17:24:07  <Jolteon>,1stJan2000.png
17:24:13  <Jolteon> This is 'Very High'
17:24:13  <Jolteon>,11thJan2000.png
17:24:24  <Jolteon> So it's about the same, it just made completely unrealistic looking square things :p
17:25:00  * Jolteon is trying to find a combination that makes it all one simple flat land, apart from the odd dips for some lakes.
17:25:02  <Rubidium> blame whoever wrote that, but that person will probably say that it isn't designed to be used with flat land
17:25:16  <Rubidium> Jolteon: heightmap!
17:25:29  <Jolteon> No idea how they work, let me go play about with it.
17:27:33  <Belugas> i guess wording is a bit misleading
17:27:36  <Belugas> flat is flat
17:27:41  <Belugas> absolutely flat
17:27:59  <Belugas> very flat would mean in fact "almost not hilly"
17:28:09  <Belugas> and not.. very flat
17:28:20  <Belugas> how flat can flat be?
17:29:03  <Jolteon> Well
17:29:04  <Jolteon> ...flat.
17:29:09  <Jolteon> As in no hills at all.
17:29:17  <Jolteon> Nothing frustrates me more than hills in a map.
17:29:32  <Jolteon> I'm trying to find a combination that gives me complete flatness, aside from the occasional dip for a lake.
17:29:54  <Jolteon> also yay, there is heightmap for my area
17:29:59  <Jolteon> The Pennine Hills
17:30:07  <Jolteon> Shame I live in a hill region though.
17:31:34  <Eoin> go onto map editor
17:31:37  <Eoin> just make an all flat map?
17:31:55  <Jolteon> Making an entire map thats usable will take some time.
17:32:14  <Jolteon> What does random seed actually do.
17:32:31  <Jolteon> It just appears to be a random number that slightly changed the overall appearance.
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17:33:11  <Jolteon> also last question before I hop off, does anyone know the max length of a lake a town will build a bridge accross?
17:33:14  <Rubidium> it is. With that number, the same settings and the same algorithm you'll generate the exact same map over and over
17:33:22  <Jolteon> IE: How many tiles of water before it goes screw it and won't bother bridging it
17:33:35  <Rubidium> it's less than 100 :)
17:33:43  <Jolteon> Well, I figured that
17:34:14  <Rubidium> oh, code says 11 tiles
17:34:21  <Jolteon> ahh
17:34:25  <Rubidium> don't know whether that's including or excluding bridge heads
17:34:37  <Jolteon> ps: any chance of getting that option (and a few others) getting added to the Towns options list?
17:34:53  <Jolteon> I.E disable them building bridges in the first place, chose max length for bridge, blah blah.
17:35:15  <Rubidium> if someone writes it, perhaps. Not for 1.0.0 though
17:35:29  <Jolteon> gosh darnit
17:35:35  <Jolteon> I wish I knew how to help D:
17:36:02  <Rubidium> start by buying (and reading) "how to help for dummies"
17:36:16  <Jolteon> Sadly all I know is some language called PAWN, which you couldn't really make an MP3 player with.
17:36:29  <Jolteon> (I use it for making gamemodes for this game, long story)
17:36:53  <Jolteon> Although, it does seem to share some basic syntax with things like C
17:37:07  <Jolteon> Rubidium: Is anyone free to tap into the SVN system and poke about?
17:37:18  <Jolteon> Where poke = view
17:38:46  <Rubidium> from our point of view yes, but I won't make guarantees that everyone who wants to has actual access (e.g. it might be on Australia's "bad" site list)
17:39:20  <Eoin> hes in the UK
17:39:23  <Eoin> :P
17:39:29  <Jolteon> ah well, I have TortoiseSVN installed for the PAWN projects I work on. I might have a go at accessing the openttd svn at some point later.
17:39:31  <Jolteon> after food, mainly.
17:40:38  <Rubidium> Jolteon: please don't checkout the whole repository (i.e. don't checkout svn://; it wastes a lot of bandwidth and a lot of HDD. Depending on what source you want exactly use /trunk or /branches/1.0 or /tags/1.0.0-RC2
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17:41:17  <Jolteon> Righto.
17:41:54  <Jolteon> Thanks for the chat / help, i'll get off and eat, and vaguely try to make a playable flat scenario that isn't insanely boring for myself :p
17:41:55  * Jolteon toodles off.
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17:53:31  <fjb> Hm, just starting the scenery editor gives a totally flat (and boring) map. So where is the problem?
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17:56:12  <frosch123> fjb: you have to place at least one town
17:56:54  <fjb> And that bugs him?
17:57:00  <frosch123> so you cannot play a totally flat map :p
17:57:27  <Jolteon> fjb: it requires creativity to make it something good :p
17:57:34  <fjb> But the town will stay on flat ground and will not really grow much.
17:57:38  <frosch123> though maye you can bulldoze the town and plant your hq there
17:57:38  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19385 /trunk/src/network/core/address.cpp: -Fix [FS#3684]: [IPv6] Netmask calculations were wrong if cidr >= 32.
17:58:35  <fjb> A totally flat map will stay boring, regardless what you do.
17:59:41  <fjb> Always reminds me about model-railways on the floor.
18:04:21  <peter1138> they're also expensive
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18:06:53  <blathijs> Anyone has any clue why nforenum keeps a ~/.renum directory with datafiles?
18:07:34  <blathijs> From the sources it seems it only writes stuff to these files it already has in memory, only to read it back again later on...
18:08:37  <Rubidium> blathijs: so you can add support for new callbacks/variables in some cases without having to modify nforenum itself
18:09:12  <Rubidium> it was especially useful in the time there where no nightlies; they would just make a new .dat file available without having to build different binaries
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18:09:34  <Rubidium> but now it might not make that much sense anymore, although I reckon it's best to ask DaleStan
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18:45:25  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r19386 /trunk/src/lang/ (japanese.txt slovak.txt):
18:45:25  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:25  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: japanese - 1 changes by imkira
18:45:25  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: slovak - 10 changes by keso53
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18:48:01  <blathijs> Rubidium: Right, that makes at least some sense :-)
18:48:48  <blathijs> Perhaps making it optional and otherwise just referencing the data in-memory directly
18:49:07  <blathijs> but well, I guess I'll have to code that myself if I really want that :-)
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18:49:44  <Coldice> PeterT
18:50:15  <Coldice> can someone help me with mingw?
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18:57:36  <Rubidium> didn't the step through manual work?
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18:59:39  <Coldice> yesterday petert told me to apply airport.patch with command patch -p0 -i airport.patch
18:59:43  <Coldice> and a get a message
18:59:57  <Coldice> can't find file to patch at input line 5
18:59:57  <Coldice> Perhaps you used the wrong -p or --strip option?
18:59:57  <Coldice> The text leading up to this was:
19:00:12  <Coldice> |diff --git a/src/station_cmd.cpp b/src/station_cmd.cpp
19:00:12  <Coldice> |index 16fcbce..8f35ab8 100644
19:00:12  <Coldice> |--- a/src/station_cmd.cpp
19:00:12  <Coldice> |+++ b/src/station_cmd.cpp
19:00:22  <Rubidium> that definitely needs -p1
19:01:10  <Coldice> i think that worked
19:01:27  <Coldice> it says "patching file bla bla
19:01:43  <Coldice> and i didnt get any message
19:02:06  <Coldice> thank you very much
19:02:19  <Coldice> one question
19:02:34  <Coldice> can I compile it with visual?
19:03:12  <OwenS> Coldice: If by that you mean visual stufio, yes
19:03:41  <Coldice> yeap.. MSVC++
19:03:49  <Coldice> it`s more easy for me
19:03:58  <Coldice> thank you
19:04:09  <OwenS> Assuming the patch isn't incompatible anyway
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19:22:34  <Coldice> works just fine :D
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19:46:01  <PeterT> Sorry Coldice, the airport patches I've seen were made with -p0
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19:55:14  <DJNekkid> does anyone have a good game-tip for me? (beside openttd ofc) ... and now, dont say ttdpatch :P
19:55:34  <DJNekkid> not FPS-games tho...
19:55:41  <DJNekkid> RTS and tycoon-games :)
19:56:20  <Chruker> rollercoaster tycoon
19:56:32  <DJNekkid> pretty outplayed that also
19:56:45  <SmatZ> I enjoyed Theme Hospital
19:56:53  <SmatZ> UFO: Enemy Unknown
19:57:04  <SmatZ> Transport Tycoon
19:57:12  <SmatZ> Heroes of Might and Magic series
19:57:13  <SmatZ> ...
19:57:18  <DJNekkid> hmm
19:57:19  <SmatZ> SimCity
19:57:23  <SmatZ> SimCity 2000
19:57:25  <Chruker> SimTower (I think its called)
19:57:36  <DJNekkid> i actually played simtower the other day
19:57:56  <SmatZ> I remember I saw it in a game shop when I was like 10 :)
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19:58:17  <Chruker> and how old are you now?
19:58:22  <SmatZ> 25
19:58:39  <SmatZ> yes, SimTower is ~1994 :)
19:58:41  <Chruker> I remember playing it a lot around 2000
19:59:17  <DJNekkid> i never managed to actually get the hang of UFO/TFTD
19:59:27  <DJNekkid> came to a certain point and it stalled
19:59:44  <DJNekkid> mostly played TFTD tho...
19:59:50  <DJNekkid> and thoose crab-men were hard...
19:59:53  <SmatZ> in UFO I became shooting UFOs into sea in later game stages
19:59:59  <SmatZ> but that wasnt' possible in TFTD
20:00:02  <Rubidium> DJNekkid: Transport Tycoon Deluxe!
20:00:07  <SmatZ> hehe :)
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20:00:39  <DJNekkid> as ttdpatch is needed for everything above win98...
20:00:55  <Rubidium> nope
20:00:58  <Rubidium> dosbox works fine
20:01:05  <DJNekkid> but perhaps i'll try that new'ish UFO-game
20:01:51  <DJNekkid> UFO: Afterlight
20:01:55  <SmatZ> I got UFO Trilogy (Aftermatch, Aftershock, Afterlight?) for quite littlee money
20:02:01  <SmatZ> and.. Commandos!
20:02:50  <DJNekkid> i did get afterlight a couple of years ago, but my computer could not run it properly...
20:02:52  <SmatZ> but I haven't finished playing those games yet...
20:02:54  <DJNekkid> but now i got a brand new one :)
20:03:00  <SmatZ> needs more time than I can provide :-p
20:03:09  <SmatZ> :)
20:03:28  <DJNekkid> yea, most likely
20:03:41  <DJNekkid> but my wife is going with her parents to some canary island in a week, for a week
20:03:47  <SmatZ> hehe :)
20:03:56  <SmatZ> week is hardly enough ;)
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20:04:53  <DJNekkid> i tried that X3: Terrain Conflict a while ago, but got boring quite quick
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20:15:08  <DJNekkid> heey, there is a X-Com1 opensource remake!
20:18:33  <KingJ> DJNekkid: I played X3TC a while back, great game if you keept at it
20:20:55  <DJNekkid> i got into a M7 with 5 M3+'es inside...
20:21:01  <DJNekkid> got quite easy at that point...
20:21:09  * KenjiE20 only has X3:R
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20:21:45  <KenjiE20> I keep meaning to reinstall it, but every time I go to, I loose the urge again >_>
20:21:46  <DJNekkid> and i miss some kind of milletary mission hub or something...
20:24:39  <KingJ> I do enjoy just roving around in a carrier, dispatching all but 1 ship, jumping into the last one myself to fight
20:24:46  <KenjiE20> I just need to find a point where I can actually just sit and leave my world traders for a little while, to build up resources
20:25:03  <SmatZ> [21:15:10] <DJNekkid> heey, there is a X-Com1 opensource remake! <== ufo2000 ?
20:25:19  <DJNekkid> SmatZ: ufo: alien invasion
20:25:27  <SmatZ> DJNekkid: oh, yes :)
20:25:34  <SmatZ> it doesn't use original graphics though
20:25:48  <DJNekkid> hopefully better gfx :)
20:26:33  <SmatZ> I would like to play original game, without bugs
20:26:44  <SmatZ> the most irritating was overflowing of soldier's stats
20:26:47  <SmatZ> :(
20:26:55  <DJNekkid> one could up their stats?
20:27:09  <SmatZ> there's something like "ufo patch", but it doesn't fix that
20:27:20  <SmatZ> as they get more experience, their stats improve
20:27:45  <DJNekkid> oki :)
20:27:58  <Terkhen> or kneeling not taking into account reserved TUs
20:28:08  <SmatZ> when they got too many experience, they got back to "few time units"
20:28:26  <SmatZ> :)
20:28:49  <DJNekkid> few time units?
20:29:22  <SmatZ> UFO:EU was turn-based
20:30:19  <SmatZ> in X-Com:Apacalypse, I enjoyed raiding "Cult of Sirius" for psy-scanners
20:30:27  <SmatZ> that I sold for 5000$ each :)
20:30:36  <DJNekkid> EU ?
20:30:41  <SmatZ> Enemy Unknown
20:30:57  <Terkhen> I only played the first two
20:31:18  * planetmaker also played only the first two. And the first even much more than the 2nd :-)
20:32:46  <DJNekkid> afk
20:33:03  <Terkhen> I remember that after playing for the first time the UFO Enemy Unknown demo I was so scared that I barely could sleep that night :P
20:33:09  <SmatZ> :-D
20:33:16  <planetmaker> hehe
20:33:57  <SmatZ> I could barely understand English, so I didn't really know what's going on
20:34:01  <SmatZ> but still I enjoyed it :)
20:34:26  <Terkhen> I just saw black scary things coming out of the dark and turning my soldiers into zombies
20:35:08  <SmatZ> hehe :)
20:39:07  <Belugas> ho fuck... ho darn... ho bummer... ho shit
20:39:10  <Belugas> i found it!
20:39:15  <Belugas> it's so stupid...
20:39:22  <Belugas> bug at work.
20:39:25  <Belugas> simple
20:39:32  <Belugas> the device has an internal com port
20:39:39  <Belugas> that comport needs a setting too
20:39:45  <Belugas> not even related to the general one
20:39:58  <Belugas> so that was the missing piece
20:40:19  <Zuu> Oh, Belugas theer you are when I have a question about delphi. Do you know if there is any way to change the keyboard shortucts in the IDE?
20:40:24  <SmatZ> great :)
20:40:32  <Belugas> even if one can talk to the device through srtial port, the device needd to open back its own internal port to the computer
20:40:46  <Rubidium> oh, not a real bug bugging up the electronics :(
20:40:53  <Belugas> Zuu, depends
20:41:06  <Zuu> I want to change ctrl+space to ctrl+n.
20:41:16  <Belugas> Rubidium, naa.. human niot bben smart enough to precise all settings
20:41:37  <Zuu> Or at least something that does not need you to twist your thumb on the kinesis countoured keyboard.
20:41:50  <Belugas> Zuu, in delphi 4/6 you cannot
20:41:59  <Belugas> i've not yet worked with the other ones
20:42:29  <Zuu> Okay, I couldn't find anything in the options. Google tells me there is a tool for a lot of money that can do it for me.
20:43:03  <Zuu> I'll take a look at the delphi files if they have the keys defined somewhere in a file.
20:43:06  <Belugas> yeah.. third party tool would do the job, i thnk
20:44:00  <Zuu> Then I might just make a macro in the keyboard instead and remove it later when I need to use vim.
20:45:36  <Rubidium> Belugas: that reminds me of :)
20:46:04  <OwenS> <- Is it just me... or is there ssomething wrong with the rightmost controller? :p
20:47:35  <Rubidium> OwenS: not as much as that wii controller of that 3-year-old
20:48:01  <Belugas> Rubidium, i'll read it tonight, promised :)
20:48:26  <Belugas> Zuu, i guess you can
20:48:55  <Belugas> or write a code template, works great, depending what yu want to achieve.
20:49:03  <Belugas> i've got quite a few ones
20:50:18  <Zuu> I want to complete types etc. that you would usually do with ctrl+space, however that combination is quite akward with my keyboard so I use to change that to ctrl+n which is the same as completing words in vim.
20:51:53  <glx> OwenS: sony make wiimote now?
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20:53:20  <Rubidium> Zuu: just limit yourself to 26 types
20:53:33  <Zuu> Why 26?
20:53:45  <Rubidium> a-z :)
20:53:48  <Zuu> :-p
20:54:42  <Zuu> It's not that I'm to lazy to type them completely it's more that I like to get a reminder of the exact naming of them.
20:54:58  <Zuu> Like if there is a plural s or not.
20:54:59  <OwenS> glx: Yes. It's been officially announced
20:55:33  <Terkhen> what is that blue thing?
20:56:23  <glx> Zuu: ctrl+space is the MSVC way too
20:56:42  <Zuu> Sure, but in MSVC you can remap it.
20:57:17  <OwenS> Terkhen: It's for camera tracking. It means that the console can track the controller unlike the Wii, which only guesses
20:57:33  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19387 /trunk/src/order_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3671]: Close all orders windows when switching companies.
20:57:48  <OwenS> Ooh, Virgin are introducing an 100MB package this year
20:58:54  <glx> let's hope it's more precise than EyePet :)
20:59:09  <planetmaker> hm, seems that Virgin does more than cheap flights around the globe and into near Earth orbits...
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20:59:33  <OwenS> planetmaker: Virgin Records and Virgin Media immediately spring to mind
20:59:40  <OwenS> Oh, Virgin Mobile
20:59:42  <OwenS> Virgin Cola...
21:00:01  <Zuu> <-- I have one of those, but a bit older so ctrl is above the enter-key.
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21:00:33  <planetmaker> OwenS, probably only to Brits ;-)
21:00:53  <planetmaker> but yeah, seems I have heard it once...
21:01:13  <OwenS> Virgin Trains... :P
21:01:21  <glx> virgin radio, virgin 17, virgin megastore
21:01:22  <planetmaker> virgins...
21:01:26  <Terkhen> OwenS: the Wii sensor bar does that too
21:01:37  <OwenS> Terkhen: The sensor bar is significantly less accurate
21:01:56  <glx> Terkhen: the wiimote tracks the sensor bar
21:02:18  <OwenS> Yeah, the sensor bar is really just an IR light, and a candle works just as well :p
21:02:37  <glx> or the sun through the window behind the TV
21:02:48  <Terkhen> I know, I just wanted to point the wii does that too (badly) :P
21:02:50  <OwenS> Or an incandecent light bulb
21:02:54  <glx> then you wonder why it doesn't react well
21:03:32  <OwenS> We had a relative's wii in the house for about 2 weeks (They lent us it as they were in the process of moving). I must say I was not at all impressed
21:04:15  <Terkhen> with or without motionplus?
21:04:26  <Eddi|zuHause> Wii is fun for a couple hours with a few friends
21:04:44  <OwenS> Terkhen: Without
21:05:04  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: For that I may as well put on WipEout HD or such... :p
21:08:49  <OwenS> Incidentally, it's impressive that the PS3's DRM is still secure
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21:09:23  <glx> it's just because it's harder to copy a bluray
21:10:12  <Eddi|zuHause> it's because the PS3 is "uninteresting" for hackers, and the crackers alone have not enough manpower
21:10:36  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Or, in other words, Sony's adding of "OtherOS" support was a brilliant idea :p
21:10:56  <glx> removed for the slim IIRC
21:11:01  <OwenS> glx: Correct
21:11:20  <OwenS> But if you want to run Linux, you can pickup a fat on eBay (or such)
21:11:33  <glx> and PS1 support while at it ;)
21:11:36  <SmatZ>
21:11:43  <OwenS> SmatZ: DRM not broken
21:11:52  <SmatZ> wasn't PS3's linux support removed some time ago?
21:11:57  <OwenS> SmatZ: Only on the slims
21:11:58  <SmatZ> OwenS: true
21:12:36  <OwenS> He's got full RAM access, but the DRM is still secure. You still cannot duplicate games, and, from his examination, it's still very well secured
21:14:21  <OwenS> And, really, what does full RAM access get us? It turns out that the GPU isn't locked out anyway!
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21:19:15  <Belugas> Zuu, i don't have that problem.  my classes are very easy to remember, as well as a good uniformity of members.  plus, i'm working with them since... 1999
21:19:23  <Belugas> therefor... i know them quite well ;)
21:19:53  *** ajmiles2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:20:15  <Zuu> Hehe, yea. Currently I'm only coding on OpenTTDAutoUpdate every few month or so.
21:23:11  <Belugas> heheh
21:23:16  <Belugas> speaking of work...
21:23:19  <Belugas> time's off!
21:23:22  <Belugas> bye bye!
21:23:32  <Zuu> Cya later
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21:47:26  <enr1x> is there ah3~~/ md5sum downloads/enr1x.sav.tbz2
21:47:26  <enr1x> 98d4004776c613a2c6edc175fa732875  downloads/enr1x.sav.tbz2
21:47:26  <enr1x> ~/ md5sum enr1x.sav.tbz2
21:47:31  <enr1x> sorry
21:47:38  <enr1x> is there any way to debug trains?
21:48:07  <enr1x> for some way, one of them doesn't leave the depot (sorry about the paste, mistakenly pressed the paste key :P)
21:48:30  <Rubidium> 1) you haven't placed signals or did so incorrectly
21:49:14  <Rubidium> 2) you've placed an electrified depot, bought an electric train but did not build rail with catenary
21:50:22  <Zuu> Or you use maglev and haven't placed all necessary pieces in a junction.
21:51:17  <enr1x> well, i don't find the problem so i moved to another solution
21:51:21  <Zuu> That said, if 2) is fullfilled I would guess that they will leave the depot.
21:51:21  <enr1x> let's see if it works fine
21:51:35  <enr1x> i'm in year 1950, steam trains
21:52:51  *** Grelouk [] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
21:55:13  <enr1x> is there any (good) tutorial on railroad signs?
21:55:52  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19388 /trunk/src/ (ai/ai_gui.cpp misc.cpp):
21:55:52  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#3666]: [NoAI] When reloading a savegame, an AI failing to compile could
21:55:52  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: trigger (trying) to read the not yet loaded information of another AI via the AI
21:55:52  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: Debug window and its "open with the most recently used AI" feature
21:56:32  <Rubidium> enr1x: ?
21:57:24  <enr1x> Rubidium: thanks :)
21:57:44  *** Fast2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:58:16  <mikegrb> a/win last
21:58:21  <Yexo> enr1x: might not be a good tutorial, but the wiki does include the basic information about signals:
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21:59:54  <enr1x> well, i get confused once i want to choose a signal, and the placement
22:00:28  <Eddi|zuHause> might it be a good idea to have the curve speed code iterate the reserved track instead of the vehicles?
22:00:58  <Eddi|zuHause> assuming that in 95% of the cases at least the space beneath the vehicles is reserved
22:07:10  <enr1x> fuck i messed with the signals and the trains crashed
22:08:27  <Eddi|zuHause> we all did that once :)
22:08:51  <Terkhen> more than once :P
22:08:52  <Terkhen> good night
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22:19:49  <nido> Anyone using the 32 bit graphics around?
22:20:37  <OwenS> enr1x: I killed ~20k people on OpenTTDCoop one night doing that. Thats 20 trains >_</
22:20:55  <planetmaker> haha @ OwenS ;-)
22:21:02  <planetmaker> mass - murderer, you!
22:21:42  <SmatZ> hehe
22:22:42  <planetmaker> I'm not sure about my record, I might not quite hit that number. But a few hundret is relatively easy ;-)
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22:25:19  <OwenS> planetmaker: Lets be fair - I was building and rebuilding a massive station :p
22:25:32  <nido> regardless of 32 bit graphics, do any of you happen to experience openttd crashing a way it needs kill -9 to properly die? I have this with 1.0RC2 (binary) and the lastest svn (self compiled, obviously)
22:25:56  <SmatZ> nope
22:26:24  <Rubidium> nido: by any chance using Ubuntu?
22:26:31  <nido> it doesn't crash when ran in gdb, and Rubidium yes
22:26:32  <planetmaker> OwenS, yes, and? ;-)
22:26:41  <Rubidium> nido: read known-bugs.txt
22:26:54  <SmatZ> oh, "regardless"
22:27:47  <Rubidium> nido: search for "hang when exiting" for the 'optimal' result
22:28:31  <nido> Rubidium: should've read, sorry
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22:28:56  <nido> then again, I should give ubuntu a shoeing for the way they handle sound
22:29:32  <Rubidium> well, they integration of the different sound stuff is definitely bad
22:29:39  <Rubidium> s/they/their/
22:29:40  <nido> it closes well now :)
22:29:55  <Rubidium> it probably uses way fewer CPU too
22:30:42  <nido> I get the part where they set the oss->alsa->pulseaudio emulation chain, that's perfectly okay; but why not install the pulseaudio sinks instead of the alsa ones if you happen to package them anyway?!?
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22:32:06  <Rubidium> nido: because they leech 75% of their packages directly from Debian without thinking
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22:32:12  <Rubidium> SDL is in those 75%
22:32:39  <OwenS> Rubidium: I'm again glad my system is pure OSS
22:32:50  <OwenS> (Well, I have libalsa configured to talk to OSS for Flash...)
22:33:03  <Rubidium> a fairly simple change would probably make pulse the default over ALSA and the whole problem is basically gone
22:33:20  <nido> you are right. And SDL is right up with mplayer and the kernel in the list of stuff they're gonna look at laster; the number of pixels used in the border width; now lets start on that first
22:33:40  <OwenS> I'd much prefer dumping the entire ALSA stack, personally ;-)
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22:34:14  <nido> OwenS: don't you kinda need it? Like as in the interface with your actual sound card?
22:34:28  <nido> oh wait; oss; sorry
22:34:29  <OwenS> nido: Thats what OSS is doing. A damn side better
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22:35:11  <nido> can you pipe pulse into oss as well?
22:35:22  <OwenS> nido: Probably, but why?
22:35:39  <nido> OwenS: easily configured network audio
22:35:57  <OwenS> nido: I don't need network audio. Also, Pulse is quite tightly bound to ALSA
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22:37:15  <nido> pulse pretends to be an audio driver; which is why it has it's back end so tightly to the alsa output. However, if it can just dump sound it's enough for me
22:37:44  <nido> sound card latency is not really an issue with networked audio ^^
22:38:09  <OwenS> You can make ALSA dump audio through OSS (and therefore make Pulse able to use it), but that will probably stop apps from sending audio to Pulse
22:38:19  <OwenS> The ALSA and Pulse web is a mess
22:38:51  <OwenS> (Plus, Pulse does mixing and such which is pointless when OSS has the very fast vmix)
22:39:34  <nido> i like the ability to set the sound level above 100% though; with a laptop that can sometimes be handy
22:40:02  <OwenS> OSS can go up to 120% or so. Going higher tends to cause clipping with most audio and therefore sounds awful
22:40:44  <nido> the part about oss which is expecially cool is that it works on openbsd as well (free and net too i think)
22:41:07  <OwenS> And it's the builtin sound system for OpenSolaris
22:41:20  <OwenS> Linux is the odd one out
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22:42:12  <OwenS> And I don't buy their excuse that "Mixing is policy and should not be implemented in the kernel". You're not building a microkernel, guys!
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22:43:14  <nido> err, shoesn't the microkernel exclude drivers by default?
22:43:51  <nido> anyway; openbsd, linux,  <insert pretty much any other OS you know>; all monolythic kernels
22:44:25  <OwenS> nido: And a VFS. And <x>... So a software mixer is no different! Especially one as efficient as OSS' VMix
22:44:46  <SmatZ> gnu hurd?
22:45:00  *** jordi [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:45:10  <OwenS> SmatZ: If you want a microkernel, that would be GNU Mach, which Hurd is built on. Or you could look at the much superior L4.
22:45:13  <nido> SmatZ: that and minix are the reason i said 'pretty much'
22:45:20  <OwenS> QNX also ;-)
22:45:28  <nido> MiniX!
22:46:20  <OwenS> Microkernels are awesome. If I ever restart my OS project it's so gonna be a minimal microkernel
22:47:52  <OwenS> (By minimal I mean I'm only going to implement very basic message passing and implement the sockets/streams/whatever in a userspace lib on top of ringbuffers :P)
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22:49:50  <nido> OwenS: at the risk of sounding like a fanboy; what you say sounds very much like minix to me, have you checked it out?
22:50:18  <OwenS> nido: I have. Minix doesn't do it using raw ringbuffers
22:50:33  <nido> true
22:50:53  <OwenS> Also, Minix is a bit too unixy for me. I'll definitely have a unix personality, but I'll have a more important native one too
22:51:54  <nido> sounds interesting
22:52:19  <DaleStan> <blathijs> Anyone has any clue why nforenum keeps a ~/.renum directory with datafiles? <-- Rubidium is correct. Historically, it's so NFORenum can support new features without being recompiled. Even now, NFORenum can be extended to support unofficial things for testing, and those data files are portable to most if not all host OS/hardware, unlike the binaries.
22:52:19  <DaleStan> ... Also, I haven't hammered out a different way to read data from both disk and memory (char[]).
22:52:52  <OwenS> nido: Finally, I've decided I'm gonna make Qt my native UI toolkit :p
22:53:09  <nido> OwenS: does that include kde4?
22:53:35  <OwenS> nido: No, but kdelibs would definitely be portable, and therefore you could bring Amarok & co with you
22:53:48  <nido> amarok :)
22:54:22  <nido> I have yet to find a media managing program which could take my collection, amarok came closest, but not close enough
22:54:32  <OwenS> Heh
22:54:37  <OwenS> Mine is ~20GB
22:55:41  <KenjiE20> mpd + custom client?
22:56:02  <Rubidium> no xmms? :)
22:56:07  <nido> I'm scanning the main dir now. There's probably some duplicates and surely immense chaos but the total is...
22:56:18  <nido> xmms2 and mpd both died taking it in
22:56:32  <Rubidium> xmms2 sucks
22:56:45  <nido> this is taking too long; it was about 120gb
22:56:55  <nido> 156g according to find :)
22:56:57  <OwenS> Actually, Amarok has lost track of my collection. Primarily because it disagrees with my SMB mount :-(
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22:57:40  <nido> i'm creating a decentralised managing system, so far it read up the collection; didn't program much more yet
22:58:18  <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: have you tried accessing the database? when i moved my collection from one drive to another, i had to change the device id in the database for it to recognize the files
22:59:09  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: I rescan the collection, but then it drops all the records when my machine beats the server at booting up :p
22:59:55  <Eddi|zuHause> sounds weird
23:00:22  <OwenS> Well, the collection fails to mount, so it looks at the directory and scratches it's head "No files here. Did he delete everything?"
23:01:16  <nido> that's a problem for me as well
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23:01:59  <Eddi|zuHause> have you considered reporting that?
23:02:12  <nido> Do you happento know who I need to contact with regard to rendering errors with the 32-bit graphics?
23:02:45  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: I'm not sure how they would fix it if I reported it. Not remove from collection if missing? What if they actually deleted the file?
23:02:49  *** jordi [] has joined #openttd
23:03:01  <OwenS> nido: That looks like a extra zoom levels image?
23:03:11  <nido> true
23:03:37  <OwenS> In that patch's thread. The developers don't support it and it has a very low chance of hitting trunk
23:03:41  <Rubidium> check the 32 bpp subforum on the forum
23:03:52  <OwenS> (According to discussion last night)
23:04:15  <enr1x> well, time for a nap
23:04:16  <nido> discussing on this #?
23:04:18  *** DaleStan [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:04:19  <enr1x> good night guys
23:04:24  *** enr1x [~kiike@] has quit [Quit: gnite!]
23:04:40  <OwenS> nido: It was discussed here. I only read it in passing
23:05:15  <nido> OwenS: just checking; i have logs so i can check it out later. happen to know the time (and what is local time for you now)?
23:05:23  <Eddi|zuHause> looks like somebody did not consider the corner-shores properly when naming the .png files
23:05:48  <OwenS> nido: Late
23:05:52  <nido> Eddi|zuHause: i had the same idea; however, there seem to be some missing tiles; and some are double
23:06:10  <nido> i'll grep for patch or soemthing
23:06:40  <Eddi|zuHause> nido: the corner shores are not part of the original graphics, they are addon graphics (openttd[dw].grf or opengfx-extra.grf)
23:07:19  <Ammler> or 32bpp-extra.grf :-)
23:07:39  <nido> Eddi|zuHause: then it should take the original graphics
23:08:38  <Ammler> the graphics are there just wrong numbered...
23:09:02  <Ammler> it might not support the special case for base sets...
23:09:12  <nido> this stuff really needs to be sorted out
23:09:18  <nido> darn what a mess
23:09:31  <Ammler> I guess, it is, you just use an old version...
23:09:45  <planetmaker> if one allows add-ons, it's always possible to mod-to-death the original programme
23:10:52  <nido> planetmaker: that's the nice part of open source, i can much around with my own little tree as much as i want and i can present it when it is in a state in which it is actually useful
23:11:13  <planetmaker> sure
23:11:30  <nido> besides, this is the only program i have that actually has an add-on installer in the mail program
23:11:47  <planetmaker> _mail_ programme?
23:11:54  <nido> *main
23:12:12  <SmatZ> that was confusing
23:12:18  <planetmaker> ah, yes. :-)
23:12:51  <planetmaker> actually a nifty feature, though :-)
23:13:22  * nido should create an addon which allows editing addon by clicking on the post cargo :p
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23:15:03  <Ammler> <-- Arctic and Tropic have same offset?
23:15:21  <DaleStan> Yep.
23:15:22  <Ammler> is that sprite id mapping documented somewhere else?
23:15:47  *** jordi [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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23:16:36  <Ammler> DaleStan: so it depends which clima I play?
23:16:53  *** tokai [] has joined #openttd
23:16:56  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
23:16:58  <DaleStan> I assume you mean "besides the TTD binary and OpenTTD sources"? Not that I know of.
23:16:58  <DaleStan> And yes.
23:17:01  <planetmaker> nido: what is a "post cargo"?
23:17:26  <SpComb^> nido:
23:17:34  <SpComb^> (mind you, not that I can find this alleged discussion...)
23:18:02  <SpComb^> but if OwenS does, the per-line links are timezone-agnostic :P
23:18:20  <nido> planetmaker: mail bags; SpComb^ tnx
23:19:00  <planetmaker> ah. I guess you have no concept of the involved complexity of these add-ons, though ;-)
23:19:29  <planetmaker> I counted a few days ago for an industry newgrf: 17% of the code lines are statement which define graphics. The rest is logic
23:19:32  <Ammler> thanks DaleStan
23:20:12  <planetmaker> lik 1500 graphics and 10000 lines code
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23:21:42  <Ammler> ah, that is eis_os homepage
23:21:45  <OwenS> SpComb^: It seems to be about this point: . Worded less strongly than I remember though
23:22:37  <Rubidium> SpComb^: your I
23:22:43  <Rubidium> SpComb^: your IPv6 connectivity is broken
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23:27:49  <SpComb^> OwenS: use the hidden little >>> thing to the left of each line as the link
23:28:09  <SpComb^> (yes, I was just looking at how to fix the damn thing to be more visible, but it's not that easy...)
23:29:33  <SpComb^> Rubidium:'s amsterdam POP is down
23:29:49  <SpComb^> Rubidium: so 1/3 of my AAAA's is non-responsive, doesn't it load at all?
23:30:10  <Rubidium> it loads once it has fallen back to IPv4
23:30:33  <Rubidium> but that takes a while
23:30:35  <SpComb^> unless, of course, you're on 6to4, then my path is also non-responsive
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23:31:20  <OwenS> SpComb^: Can't you just use direct anycast 6to4?
23:31:33  <SpComb^> OwenS: I don't use 6to4. Other people do
23:31:35  *** fonsinchen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:31:51  <SpComb^> OwenS: there's something wonky about sesto01's 6to4 return path
23:31:57  <OwenS> SpComb^: Why not? Or are you on an IPv6 native network?
23:32:09  <SpComb^> I have manually configured tunnels
23:32:26  <OwenS> Meh... Anycast 6to4 tends to work better I find
23:32:37  <SpComb^> more unreliable, since the routing is assymetric
23:33:10  <SpComb^> and teredo/6to4 traffic's been spiking a little recently, so many 6to4 relays are a little overloaded
23:33:31  <OwenS> Heh. I presume you're using the v6-in-v4 protocol though, rather than say AYIYA? :-)
23:33:38  <SpComb^> yes
23:34:33  *** jordi [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:34:53  * OwenS thinks that some country should make an IPv6 push by mandating that all networking equipment sold after a certain date should be IPv6 capable, and consumer equipment should do automatic IPv6 and 6to4 fallback
23:36:52  <SpComb^> OwenS: did you find the per-line link thing in the logs yet?
23:37:09  <SpComb^> the date/....?page=... links aren't good, since their contents are timezone-dependent
23:37:41  <SpComb^> I seriously need to fix it to make the entire timestamp prefix work as a link or something, but that requires structural changes
23:38:11  <OwenS> SpComb^:
23:38:29  <SpComb^> better
23:38:52  <SpComb^> hidden UI elements that are two chars wide just turned out to not be so user-friendly in terms of discoverability :)
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23:44:11  <Eddi|zuHause> hence they are hidden :p
23:55:26  <SpComb^> OwenS: but look, I workarounded by adding a local 2002::/16 return route
23:55:59  <SpComb^> Rubidium: are you on 6to4?
23:56:35  <Rubidium> SpComb^: don't know; I use freenet6 (or what used to be freenet6)
23:57:29  <SpComb^> presumeably not, then
23:58:04  <SpComb^> but at least 2/3 of the AAAA's for should be responsive, so ideally, browsers should be able to fallback to one of those :/
23:58:20  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... starting a 40 minutes download 10 minutes before disconnection is probably not the brightest idea...
23:58:57  <Rubidium> SpComb^: 2/3 of the AAAAs doesn't work
23:59:04  <SpComb^> Rubidium: which one does?
23:59:14  <Rubidium> 2001:16d8:ff00:39d::2
23:59:21  <SpComb^> huh
23:59:46  <SpComb^> does `ping6` respond for you?

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