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00:00:22 <andythenorth> I could probably suppress it, but the other FIRS authors prefer that I don't for various good reasons 00:00:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i hate the forum... it doesn't display 90% of the images... and i can't find the reason why 00:00:57 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:01:13 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2D994D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Regel Nr. 1: Jeder hört auf mein Kommando! - Regel Nr. 2: Jeder bleibt auf dem Weg! - Regel Nr. 3: ... ... Der, der blÀht, als hinterster geht!] 00:05:02 <DaleStan> Ah. yes. I remember that issue. (Actually, part of the plan for NFORenum is to have it catch that too. (Un)fortunately, renum doesn't quite know that 1A is constant.) 00:07:09 <andythenorth> DaleStan: I don't mind the workaround, it's fine 00:07:23 <andythenorth> bed time :) 00:07:56 *** rellig [~quassel@vs1191017.vserver.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:59 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77912.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:10:16 *** Muddy [muddy@playing.OpenTTD.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:10:19 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7486A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:10:49 *** Muddy [muddy@playing.OpenTTD.no] has joined #openttd 00:12:07 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 00:12:46 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:13:22 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:13:50 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5adb10d4.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:13:55 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e08d27e.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 00:16:04 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:44 *** _Muddy [muddy@playing.OpenTTD.no] has joined #openttd 00:19:51 *** Muddy [muddy@playing.OpenTTD.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:21:08 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:22:04 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.17.249.21] has quit [Quit: ãããã] 00:25:15 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-19-44.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:25:35 *** Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust443.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]] 00:25:44 *** _Muddy is now known as Muddy 00:26:47 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has left #openttd [] 00:32:30 *** Noldo [vheino@jumi.lut.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32:33 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 00:32:37 *** Noldo [vheino@jumi.lut.fi] has joined #openttd 00:34:26 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn14-2-0-cust562.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:37:36 *** Muddy [muddy@playing.OpenTTD.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:39:58 *** Noldo [vheino@jumi.lut.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:10 *** Noldo [~vheino@jumi.lut.fi] has joined #openttd 00:43:40 *** Muddy [muddy@playing.OpenTTD.no] has joined #openttd 00:48:55 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:52:46 *** Muddy [muddy@playing.OpenTTD.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:53:52 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:55:41 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 00:58:49 *** Muddy [~muddy@playing.OpenTTD.no] has joined #openttd 01:01:15 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 01:19:13 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-215-46.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:28:28 *** kyle1 [~Kyle@c-98-202-53-240.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 01:30:16 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba9e44.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:41:23 *** kyle1 [~Kyle@c-98-202-53-240.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has left #openttd [] 02:04:00 <PeterT> Is it true that cargo gets payed for the drop relative to the station sign's location 02:04:02 <PeterT> +? 02:09:29 <Belugas> i guess it is 02:09:38 <Belugas> i guess it's late 02:09:46 <Belugas> i guess i'll be hitting bed now 02:10:12 <PeterT> Good night, Belugas 02:18:37 *** Bergee [~bergee@c-98-250-52-144.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 02:20:04 <Eddi|zuHause> a Belugas at this hour? how rare... 02:20:33 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: at least it used to be the station sign a while ago 02:20:51 <PeterT> In 0.7.5, right? 02:21:14 <Eddi|zuHause> my information is more 0.5-ish :) 02:22:03 <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause: When was that last time you played OpenTTD? 02:22:12 <PeterT> Regularly, I mean 02:22:32 <Eddi|zuHause> what does that have to do with knowing game internals? 02:23:21 <PeterT> Nothing 02:23:23 <PeterT> ..at all 02:23:44 <PeterT> I was asking randomnly 02:24:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i started a game a few weeks ago, but didn't get far 02:24:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i played a longer game about half a year ago or so 02:24:42 <PeterT> what version? 02:24:53 <Eddi|zuHause> cargodist-custom? 02:24:58 <PeterT> oh 02:24:59 <PeterT> right 02:25:40 *** PeterT [~PeterT@rdlbnc.com] has quit [Killed (tjfontaine (fix your client))] 02:25:55 *** PeterT [~PeterT@rdlbnc.com] has joined #openttd 02:28:28 <Eddi|zuHause> inhowfar did that information help you now? 02:29:24 <PeterT> Life-changing 02:39:32 *** JVassie_ [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:00:47 *** JVassie_ [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 03:21:09 *** Bergee [~bergee@c-98-250-52-144.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:23:26 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:24:22 *** JVassie_ [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:25:05 *** Bergee [~bergee@c-98-250-52-144.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 03:25:05 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:25:16 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-139-111.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 03:30:17 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@188.109.244.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:35:11 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c7ac.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:43:58 *** lolman [~Holygoat@cust247-dsl93-89-128.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:26:39 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:1d93:1b31:7573:b672] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:36:09 *** DanMacK [~here@65.94.201.53] has joined #openttd 04:52:22 *** DanMacK [~here@65.94.201.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:31:18 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 06:02:02 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 06:20:32 *** Bergee [~bergee@c-98-250-52-144.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:22:54 *** Bergee [~bergee@c-98-250-52-144.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 07:10:51 <ccfreak2k> <PeterT> Is it true that cargo gets payed for the drop relative to the station sign's location 07:10:55 <ccfreak2k> It makes the most sense to me. 07:11:28 <ccfreak2k> At least if the algorithm doesn't go into too much detail. 07:20:08 *** einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 07:30:38 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: a1270] 07:33:21 *** TheMask96 [martijn@lust.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:35:46 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:39:39 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 07:44:42 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-19-44.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 07:51:41 <dih> good morning 07:56:24 <Rubidium> oh, it's that time of day again? Ah well, good morning then :) 07:57:04 <dih> hehe - someone did not go to bed last night :-P 07:57:11 <dih> at least that's what it sounds like 07:57:14 <Rubidium> oh I did :) 07:57:29 <Rubidium> just hoped it was still night so I could sleep some mor 07:57:31 <Rubidium> +e 07:58:26 <peter1138> hmm, somebody broke greek 07:59:47 <Rubidium> yes, the Greek translator did 08:00:39 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:02:01 <dih> good morning cybertinitus ^^ 08:02:25 <peter1138> clever 08:05:11 <peter1138> good ol' ben_k 08:05:25 <peter1138> doesn't grasp that adding gameplay features as singleplayer only is a big no no 08:06:32 <dih> where? forums? 08:07:47 *** roboboy [996b2199@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 08:21:14 <roboboy> hello 08:22:15 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@48.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 08:22:29 <Terkhen> good morning 08:22:45 <__ln__> quite good 08:23:53 <roboboy> good evening (: 08:25:31 <roboboy> is the unified login for the website handled by an LDAP server? 08:25:54 <roboboy> if not how is it implemented? 08:26:47 <peter1138> yes 08:27:01 <roboboy> to LDAP? 08:27:28 * Rubidium wonders how hard it is to search for that information 08:29:17 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 08:29:37 * Rubidium thinks roboboy needs a 101 in news searching 08:29:44 <peter1138> what, first hit on google for 'openttd ldap'? :) 08:33:37 <peter1138> though that wouldn't help if it had been changed later... 08:43:04 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:47:51 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:54:49 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 08:56:09 <dih> now all you need is openttd->ldap auth 08:56:16 <dih> and ldap stores your uniqu id :-P 08:56:39 <dih> perhaps that should be done via a webservice or some other (openttd style) network service 08:56:43 <dih> master....ldap 08:57:24 <dih> client->master master->client master->server 08:58:05 <dih> kick/ban results in server->master ^^ 08:58:05 <Noldo> facebook login :] 09:01:35 *** heffer [~felix@mue-88-130-84-031.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #openttd 09:02:32 <andythenorth> don't suppose there's a string code for pluralising depending on a value? 09:09:17 <peter1138> yes 09:09:29 <andythenorth> yes there is or yes there isn't? 09:09:57 <peter1138> yes there is, heh 09:10:31 <peter1138> perhaps 09:10:32 <peter1138> hmm 09:11:36 <peter1138> at least, in the language files 09:11:42 <peter1138> don't think it'll work for newgrf text 09:12:28 <__ln__> what, there's something one can't do with newgrf??!? 09:13:16 <peter1138> well, the plural form may not match the currently selected language's form 09:16:09 <peter1138> also the codepoint to identify a plural isn't fixed 09:16:25 <peter1138> it's part of an enum list that could change 09:18:37 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@CPE-58-173-248-50.szxn1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:18:48 <andythenorth> I figured it would be tricky to pluralise and have multilingual support :) 09:19:08 <andythenorth> hmm 09:19:17 <andythenorth> the industry window seems slow to update it's text 09:19:21 <andythenorth> its /s 09:20:39 <andythenorth> the monthly production change cb doesn't appear to trigger cb 3A (or a window redraw - I'm guessing one of the two is required) 09:20:58 <andythenorth> Moving the window does trigger the cb / redraw etc 09:21:18 <andythenorth> that is sub-optimal :| 09:21:33 <Pikka> andy: hum 09:22:04 <peter1138> just the redraw 09:22:41 <andythenorth> that puts the kybosh on my power station :P 09:23:56 *** Tennel [~Tennel@88.150.10.254] has joined #openttd 09:24:28 <andythenorth> I could run the production cb...that will trigger the redraw quite soon after the production change cb runs 09:24:57 <andythenorth> nah 09:26:22 <peter1138> or supply a patch to trigger the redraw 09:26:29 <andythenorth> worthy of a fs entry? 09:29:17 *** einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:07 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 09:33:09 <andythenorth> is there a string code for the little 'warning' triangle used in the newgrf list window? 09:36:31 <peter1138> no 09:36:51 <andythenorth> probably for the best 09:44:21 *** Aali [~aali@h-90-31.A189.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 09:48:07 <Hirundo> Would it be possible to enable the newgrf text parameter stack for all strings, instead of in a few selected locations? 09:51:34 <Hirundo> It would allow newgrfs to properly display numbers, velocities, etc. without resorting to parameters to e.g. switch between kph/mph (NARS 2) 09:54:08 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@CPE-58-173-248-50.szxn1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:56:48 <andythenorth> Power Station: improved http://tt-foundry.com/misc/power_station_comp.png 09:57:23 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@CPE-58-173-248-50.szxn1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:57:43 <andythenorth> Pikka missed all the excitement :o 10:08:21 <andythenorth> close the industry dammit 9.9 10:10:08 <andythenorth> hmm 10:10:30 <andythenorth> if industry is type 00 (no closure), newgrf seems to not be able to over-ride that :o 10:11:55 <andythenorth> Yay! *All* my power stations disappeared from the map. Result :D 10:12:03 * andythenorth just thought of a refinement 10:12:11 <andythenorth> fricking refinements :( 10:12:14 <andythenorth> refinements = work 10:17:26 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-205-064.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 10:21:08 *** Uresu [~Wes@5ace7b73.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 10:21:46 <Pikka> oops :) 10:22:14 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 10:28:31 <Pikka> andy: have you experimented with the prospecting/building cost property? and is it just me or does it not work in OpenTTD? :P 10:29:14 <peter1138> andythenorth, "pixel creations for open transport tycoon" ??? 10:29:43 <Pikka> what's an open transport tycoon? ;) 10:29:55 <peter1138> "transport tycoon" or "openttd", please? 10:29:59 <peter1138> quite 10:32:23 *** roboboy [996b2199@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 10:32:23 <__ln__> "transport tycoon" is known to be a registered trademark, so talking about "open transport tycoon" is like asking for unnecessary trouble and attention. 10:33:45 <Ammler> why don't you want attention? 10:33:54 <tokai> Also it would be Open Transport Tycoon *Deluxe* anyway, no? :) 10:34:18 <Ammler> Sounds like you have to hide something... 10:34:50 <Rubidium> Ammler: because the kind of attention you get means all your work on openttdcoop and it subprojects is pointless as there is no OpenTTD to play anymore 10:35:12 <Pikka> and is it just me or does it not work in OpenTTD? :P <- aww shoot, it helps if I get the industry ID correct in the action 0... don't mind me 10:35:17 <andythenorth> peter1138: better? http://tt-foundry.com/ 10:35:46 <peter1138> don't see a change :p 10:36:50 <Pikka> it says openttd in the title :P but still "open transport tycoon" in big letters at the top of the page... 10:37:56 <__ln__> Ammler: i meant trademark/copyright holder's attention 10:38:14 <andythenorth> doh 10:38:22 <andythenorth> Who put that there :P 10:38:55 * andythenorth is somewhat sleep deprived 10:39:01 * andythenorth blames the baby 10:39:06 <Rubidium> I think "Not suitable for use in ways that violate good taste." makes them DFSG non-free 10:39:18 <Pikka> andythenorth: blame it on the boogie 10:39:45 <Pikka> Rubidium: it says not suitable, not not permitted... 10:39:53 <andythenorth> Rubidium: it's a disclaimer not a licensing term :) 10:40:18 * Pikka wonders if people will hate me if I incorporate pb_build into my toyland replacement ;) 10:40:35 <andythenorth> does that make you *more* likely to do it :P 10:40:56 <andythenorth> Which is better? Simple to explain, or fairer to player? 10:41:06 <andythenorth> The case would be industry closure rules 10:41:11 <Rubidium> Pikka: just wonder whether people already hate you now. If that's the case then they'll most likely hate you if you incorporate it and as such nothing changes 10:41:24 <Pikka> true enough, rubidium 10:42:00 <andythenorth> when the game starts, five years protection from closure is probably not enough for an industry. 10:42:13 <andythenorth> once cargo has been delivered for the first time, five years is way too generous 10:42:48 <Ammler> __ln__: if "someone" really fears attention in that matter, it might be time to change the name ;-) 10:42:51 <Pikka> andy: do you need to explain the exact mechanics to the player? 10:42:56 <andythenorth> I'd rather not 10:43:19 <dih> that'll just confuse them even more 10:43:28 <dih> they don't know the exacts of the game anyway :-D 10:43:38 <Pikka> then go for fairer and don't explain it ;) 10:43:45 * dih just found apt-dater 10:43:47 <dih> uhhh 10:44:20 <Pikka> Ammler: I propose changing the name of OpenTTD to "Open Largely Unrelated Transport Game" 10:44:37 <andythenorth> hmmm I'll just diddle the probability of closure, not the length of time. Easier 10:44:43 <__ln__> Ammler: dunno whose name you are talking about, but OpenTTD's name in the title was changed something like 5 years ago for this precise reason. 10:44:48 <andythenorth> And means I don't have to rewrite my texts (again) 10:44:59 <Ammler> Rubidium: maybe you should start a "name competition" in tt-forums ;-) 10:46:10 <Ammler> __ln__: I am sure, andythenorth isn't the first and the last who does refer TTD of OpenTTD to Tranport Tycoon Deluxe 10:47:09 * andythenorth deletes his website, as it seems to be controversial 10:47:31 * andythenorth undeletes his website. Phew! 10:47:34 <JVassie> lol 10:47:54 <JVassie> I need inspiration to finish these sprites :x 10:48:08 <andythenorth> what are they? 10:48:18 <PeterT> JVassie: Do it, or else 10:48:28 <JVassie> British Modular Stations Set 10:48:46 * andythenorth blew up *OpenTTD* 10:48:51 <Pikka> JVassie: finish those sprites or I'll beat you around the head with a piece of wood 10:48:56 <JVassie> xD 10:49:08 * andythenorth definitely didn't blow up anything to do with a trademarked name 10:49:18 <JVassie> I need a coder thouh 10:49:21 <JVassie> *though 10:49:33 <Pikka> andythenorth(tm) 10:49:38 <andythenorth> JVassie: don't we all need a coder? 10:49:39 <Rubidium> where's "NewGRF coding for dummies"? 10:49:49 <andythenorth> Rubidium: here 10:49:52 <JVassie> andythenorth, probably 10:50:03 <JVassie> hopefully though, a complete spritesheet will persuade one 10:50:17 <Pikka> my wiki page is headed "Writing NFO for smarties. Because you're not as dumb as you think you are," Rubidium 10:50:51 <Pikka> trying to help dummies is generally unproductive. ;) 10:51:33 <Pikka> JVassie: stations are the one thing I've never properly attempted to code. I'll be doing some of my own soon though... 10:51:41 <andythenorth> ha ha this is evil 10:51:54 <andythenorth> so if you *never* service the power plant, it will eventually have a low chance of closure 10:51:55 <Terkhen> unless they buy your "for dummies" books 10:52:03 <JVassie> Ive attempted trying to code stations myself 10:52:12 <JVassie> however I get lost in some of the vasics 10:52:14 <JVassie> *basics 10:52:16 <andythenorth> if you start delivering cargo, then don't service it, the chance of closure is somewhat higher 10:52:18 <JVassie> unfortunately 10:52:33 <Pikka> oh man, someone's gone and converted a big block of <pre> on my wiki to a proper wiki table... 10:53:14 <Pikka> now if I want to change it I'll have to edit it properly instead of just overwriting it from the text dump D: 10:53:27 <andythenorth> wiki formatting is major suck :( 10:53:35 <peter1138> or you can just overwrite it all from the text dump :D 10:53:46 <Pikka> I'd feel guilty, peter1138 :D 10:53:54 <Rubidium> that's why I leave dumping the changelog on the wiki to others :) 10:54:14 <Pikka> http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=NARS_Vehicle_List 10:54:19 <Pikka> must have taken him ages... D: 10:58:31 * andythenorth now feels power plants are sufficiently evil 10:58:43 <andythenorth> mostly "FIRS is not evil" 10:58:51 <andythenorth> but there has to be something... 11:01:06 <Rubidium> FIRS is really sinister industry replacement set is really sinister industry replacement set ... :) 11:01:31 <andythenorth> FINE - FIRS Is Not Evil 11:02:31 *** DanMacK [~here@65.94.201.53] has joined #openttd 11:03:31 <andythenorth> hi DanMacK 11:06:20 <andythenorth> hmm 11:06:22 <andythenorth> 81 18 00 \b50 //randomise 11:06:26 <andythenorth> 1 in 50 chance right? 11:06:31 <Pikka> wut 11:06:34 <andythenorth> or do I need to be more bit savvy 11:06:56 <andythenorth> cos all my fricking power stations just announced closure :| 11:07:13 <Pikka> um 11:07:42 <andythenorth> this is inside cb 3A 11:07:49 <andythenorth> if you see what I mean 11:08:04 <andythenorth> oops cb 29 11:08:31 <andythenorth> ah there are only 32 random bits available :) 11:09:00 <Pikka> why 00 \b50? 11:09:08 <Pikka> 32 random bits isn't a problem :P 11:09:20 <Pikka> 32 random bits is a dword... 11:09:46 <andythenorth> am I nibbling var 18 wrong? 11:09:49 <peter1138> what happened to your varadjust? 11:10:07 <andythenorth> that is a good question 11:10:09 <andythenorth> what did? 11:10:22 <andythenorth> this appeared to be working code elsewhere :) 11:10:26 <andythenorth> probably wasn't then? 11:10:38 <andythenorth> grrr 11:10:43 <Pikka> andy: does it need to be 1 in 50? 11:10:44 <peter1138> well, you ANDed var18 with 50? 11:10:57 <andythenorth> I just need it to be 1 in 'some relatively large number' :) 11:11:09 <Pikka> you could do 1 in 50 with a modulo, but it's probably easier to do, say, 1 in 64 with the and mask 11:11:19 <andythenorth> 1 in 32 would be sufficient I think 11:11:40 <Pikka> for 1 in 32 you'll want to and with... 1F? 11:11:41 <andythenorth> what's a 'low chance of closure' mean to you in probabilty terms? 11:12:05 <Pikka> 1 in 64 = 3F, 1 in 128 = 7F, 1 in 256 = FF 11:12:17 <andythenorth> I can use escapes? 11:12:24 <Pikka> you can, but you wouldn't want to 11:12:46 <Pikka> it's easier to think in bits if you write in hex :) 11:13:54 * andythenorth tries again.....make make make 11:15:54 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc069e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:16:07 <andythenorth> hmmm they didn't all immolate themselves at once this time 11:16:19 * andythenorth leaves the game running for a bit... 11:16:20 <andythenorth> afk 11:17:57 <JVassie> Pikka, when is the first emu in UKRS? 11:18:27 <Pikka> umm 11:18:37 <Pikka> 1960ish? 11:19:23 <JVassie> hmm 11:19:29 <JVassie> AM2 is 1958 apparently 11:19:33 <Pikka> yes 11:19:34 <Pikka> then 11:21:14 <JVassie> thnx 11:31:21 *** DanMacK [~here@65.94.201.53] has quit [] 11:31:40 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:44:00 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.17.249.21] has joined #openttd 11:46:15 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:47:43 <TrueBrain> LOL @ Latest xkcd :) 11:47:53 <Uresu> link pls 11:48:54 <Forked> xkcd.com 11:49:01 <Forked> don't forget the mouse-over text 11:49:33 *** _newage_ [~victor@81.32.62.61] has joined #openttd 11:49:51 <TrueBrain> I really like this one :) 11:49:58 <TrueBrain> the IQ graph is funny :) 11:53:35 *** _newage_ [~victor@81.32.62.61] has left #openttd [] 11:53:58 <andythenorth> random bits have me baffled 11:55:49 <Pikka> how so, andy? 11:56:07 <andythenorth> conceptual fail 11:56:11 <andythenorth> I don't get them 11:56:24 <peter1138> they're bits, and they're random 11:56:39 <andythenorth> but the result in a varaction 2 is 1 or 0? 11:56:47 <peter1138> no 11:56:49 <andythenorth> ah 11:56:49 <Pikka> no 11:57:43 <andythenorth> so anding random bits with 32 gets me anything between 0 and 32? 11:57:50 <Pikka> no 11:58:03 <Pikka> anding random bits with 0x1F gets you anything between 0 and 32 11:58:07 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust443.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:58:29 <Pikka> erm 11:58:32 <Pikka> 0 and 31 :) 11:58:36 <andythenorth> hmm. Well I have conceptual fail, but my code is correct 11:58:40 <Pikka> :) 11:58:49 <Pikka> 0x1F is 31 11:59:17 <andythenorth> I'm only checking for 0 in the varact 2 anyway 11:59:27 <andythenorth> :) 11:59:35 <Pikka> but it's significant because it's 11111 in binary... so it's checking the bottom 5 bits. 12:00:07 <andythenorth> ah I know have a mental picture of it 12:00:09 <andythenorth> now /s 12:00:41 <andythenorth> when I think of little black and white squares instead of numbers, bit stuff makes more sense! 12:00:45 <Pikka> if you ANDED 0x20 (ie, 32 dec, binary 100000), there's only 1 bit it's checking, so if you checked for 0 you'd get 50% hits 12:01:31 <andythenorth> thanks 12:08:00 <andythenorth> Pikka: any chance you could review my code? The only way to test this is to run a long game with a lot of power stations! 12:08:01 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttd.org/225276 12:08:06 <andythenorth> :) 12:11:59 *** enr1x [~kiike@77.229.85.144] has joined #openttd 12:12:33 <Pikka> hmm 12:13:46 <Pikka> when NUM_MONTHS_INDUSTRY_CLOSURE_PROTECTED is reached, that ticker stops increasing? 12:14:07 <Pikka> I see 12:15:52 <Pikka> hmm 12:16:03 <Pikka> you want it to have a high chance of shutting down if cargo /has/ been delivered? 12:17:01 <Pikka> that seems conceptually to be the wrong way round, but otherwise the code looks good :) 12:17:10 <andythenorth> it is conceptually the wrong way round :) 12:17:34 <andythenorth> but it might just work 12:17:49 <andythenorth> I am trying to prevent that wave of closures five years after the game starts 12:18:16 <Pikka> hmm 12:18:29 <Pikka> so it waits for a period, then shuts down all the industries you're serving ;) 12:18:32 <Pikka> ? 12:18:46 <Pikka> well, a quarter of the industries you're serving every month. 12:20:31 <Pikka> you're also not setting "HAS_CARGO_EVER_BEEN_DELIVERED_FLAG" in there anywhere, does that happen somewhere else? 12:20:35 <andythenorth> yes 12:20:55 <andythenorth> in the production cb for cargo delivered 12:21:03 <Pikka> I see 12:21:11 <andythenorth> which also resets LOCAL_DELIVERY_TICKER_STORE 12:21:31 <Pikka> oh 12:22:54 <Pikka> righto :) 12:23:07 <andythenorth> so I haven't screwed up the random closure code? 12:23:27 <ashb> what madness is this? 12:24:51 <andythenorth> madness? 12:24:58 <Pikka> I don't know, I didn't check what the callback results mean, but if you say so :) 12:26:12 * andythenorth checks the results 12:26:14 <andythenorth> yup fine 12:26:28 <andythenorth> that's probably that done then :o 12:26:44 <andythenorth> dunno if it's a good idea 12:37:38 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 12:46:44 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B74FBC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:46:57 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2D9DA8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:50:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7486A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:54:00 *** ptr [~peter@wpa-n21-p38.kthopen.kth.se] has joined #openttd 12:56:35 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c988.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:57:00 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1FC7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:58:06 <Rubidium> any Ubuntu users in here that want to risk their system by testing some .debs made especially for Ubuntu? Download them from http://devs.openttd.org/~rubidium/cf/ and tell me whether they work or not 13:02:00 <TrueBrain> and this is the moment you find out we hav eno ubuntu users ;) 13:03:21 *** Uresu [~Wes@5ace7b73.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:04:15 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:84ec:6185:69d3:4a9d] has joined #openttd 13:04:18 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:04:33 <Rubidium> glx: it's not DST here yet! :) 13:04:42 <glx> lol 13:06:19 <blathijs> Rubidium: You've added a ubuntu builder to the compile farm? 13:06:32 <Rubidium> yup :( 13:06:59 <Rubidium> cause I had hopes Squeeze would install on Lucid, but that's not going to be the case in a few weeks anymore 13:08:16 <blathijs> I can hijack $gf's Ubuntu system tonight, if I remember to :-) 13:12:19 <Rubidium> that would be lovely 13:17:22 *** robotboy is now known as roboboy 13:25:08 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 13:26:59 <Belugas> hello 13:30:21 *** Uresu [~Wes@host81-153-202-48.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 13:35:29 <Pikka> get out you mad fool 13:35:32 <Pikka> @ Belugas 13:35:38 * Pikka toddles off to make dinner 13:35:39 <Belugas> mmmh? 13:35:49 *** Uresu [~Wes@host81-153-202-48.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:36:04 *** fjb is now known as Guest1301 13:36:05 *** fjb [~frank@p5485BCDC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:41:55 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 13:43:21 *** Guest1301 [~frank@p5485DBB3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:55:14 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 13:56:50 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 13:58:19 <Eddi|zuHause> if all mad fools would get out of here, there would be noone left to develop the game... 14:00:41 *** heffer [~felix@mue-88-130-84-031.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:01:40 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@60.150.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd 14:08:15 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:11:32 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 14:23:37 <Belugas> nope, since we'd all be outside having fun with those fools 14:23:51 <Belugas> you know what they say: the more fools, the more fun! 14:30:00 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-229-3.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:30:46 <Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> the IQ graph is funny :) <-- the question is, are the people using the internet really smarter than average, are they fooled by "fake" intelligence tests, or are they plain lieing? 14:31:55 <Eddi|zuHause> besides, IQ numbers are useless, as there are multiple incomparable scales, that only have in common that 100 is the average... 14:32:04 *** MeCooL [mecool@94.129.151.93] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:32:26 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: if you take a test (with scaling) of 10 years ago your IQ will be higher 14:32:51 <Rubidium> so I assume that they were using a test from before the whole copyright stuff, i.e. early 1900s 14:32:59 <Eddi|zuHause> :) 14:33:49 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-44-153.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 14:33:52 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 14:33:52 <Rubidium> nevertheless, the tests aren't quite accurate about 160 or so (so they just cap it there) 14:34:38 <Eddi|zuHause> there are scales that don't spread much beyond 130 14:35:00 <Rubidium> and the tests on TV from the last few years make it even impossible to get more than like 150 14:35:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i wouldn't believe any number higher than 120 anyway... 14:36:02 <peter1138> intelligence is limited to knowing when to google 14:36:56 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@48.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:37:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i do believe that people have a 23cm penis, though :p 14:39:42 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db0ef44.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:41:08 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: let me say that people who are smart enough to know how IQ work probably don't need to brag about their IQ, the rest just thinks they're smarter than the rest 14:42:27 <aber> My IQ is 4.294.967.295 14:44:38 <lennard> since in nl we use . to seperate the decimals, I'll just truncate that to 4 :P 14:45:16 <aber> infact it is 18.446.744.073.709.600.000, i don't know. Is my computer broken? 14:45:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 14:47:21 <peter1138> that's a lot of zeros at the end 14:49:03 <Eddi|zuHause> that's the broken part :) 14:49:27 <peter1138> yeah 14:49:53 <Eddi|zuHause> 18.446.744.073.709.551.616 <- actual 2^64 14:50:31 <peter1138> don't be silly, you can't have that many decimal points in a number 14:51:01 <Eddi|zuHause> better than the swiss people, they have apostrophes in their numbers... 15:00:27 *** Chris_Booth is now known as Guest1311 15:00:29 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust443.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:02:55 *** Guest1311 [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust443.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:03:36 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:03:40 *** Chris_Booth is now known as Guest1314 15:03:42 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust443.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:06:11 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 15:07:39 *** Chris_Booth is now known as Guest1316 15:07:40 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust443.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:08:57 *** Guest1314 [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust443.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:09:54 *** APTX_ [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 15:10:22 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:11:15 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... this error message "inflate failed", could that be made more descriptive so that it mentiond "possibly incomplete download" or something? 15:12:55 *** Guest1316 [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust443.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:14:02 <__ln__> the DarkVater approach would be not to show the error message at all. 15:14:22 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has joined #openttd 15:14:25 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 15:16:45 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 15:18:26 *** Chris_Booth is now known as Guest1319 15:18:28 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust443.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:20:58 *** Guest1319 [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust443.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:22:08 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 15:24:08 *** PeterT is now known as Guest1320 15:24:27 *** Guest1320 is now known as PeterT 15:26:58 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust443.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:27:49 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust443.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:28:34 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:30:44 *** enr1x [~kiike@77.229.85.144] has quit [Quit: thanks for your help, see you later] 15:36:08 *** Adambean [adamr@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 15:43:41 <Pikka> goodnight kiddies 15:43:44 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@CPE-58-173-248-50.szxn1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 15:47:53 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust443.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:50:52 <andythenorth> oh. pikka left 15:51:12 <andythenorth> I haven't a clue how to do date maths in nfo 15:53:12 <Eddi|zuHause> anything in particular? 15:53:59 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@f234099.upc-f.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 15:54:13 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:01:24 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 16:07:21 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-44-153.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:09:22 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-28-199.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 16:09:25 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 16:10:01 * andythenorth design dichotomy 16:10:05 <andythenorth> makes my brain ache 16:10:15 <andythenorth> normally comes out in the wash though :) 16:10:53 <andythenorth> question: why should industries close at all? Gameplay reasons? 16:11:02 <PeterT> Bankruptness 16:11:18 <andythenorth> caused by? 16:11:39 <Belugas> cough ** rea ** cough * lism*** cough... ARGH!!!! 16:11:45 <Rubidium> depletion of resources? 16:12:15 <andythenorth> I'll narrow the question: processing industries 16:12:21 <andythenorth> is it just irritating? 16:12:22 <Rubidium> dangerous situations, e.g. a fireworks depot in the middle of a town isn't such a good idea 16:12:31 <PeterT> Revolt 16:12:41 <Rubidium> or something petrochemical in a town... same idea 16:12:52 <andythenorth> in my experience only two things happen when an industry closes: 16:12:56 <Rubidium> you'll see that such companies get relocated out-of-town over time 16:13:06 <andythenorth> (a) you've just built a route to it, and you're screwed. so game over 16:13:11 <Rubidium> (in the real world ofcourse) 16:13:16 <andythenorth> (b) or you have enough money that you don't care 16:14:20 <andythenorth> so basically it's either "stupid game ruined my game" or "meh" 16:15:37 <Rubidium> if you go bankrupt the move happens generally in the first year 16:15:39 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: only reasons imho should be (a) annoy the player [this should be disable-able], (b) unserviced, (c) dry out a cargo chain after a certain date [like oil wells in temperate] 16:15:54 <andythenorth> (a) I don't like any more 16:15:58 <andythenorth> (c) is valid 16:16:05 <andythenorth> (b) is the one I am having trouble with 16:21:36 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn14-2-0-cust562.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:22:24 * andythenorth has yet another idea 16:23:01 <Rubidium> ditching FIRS? 16:23:18 <andythenorth> :D 16:24:09 <andythenorth> Rubidium: I have to get it released before the nightlies stop compiling on OS X 16:24:11 <andythenorth> :o 16:26:56 <andythenorth> There is currently a 5 year 'grace period' for industries to close due to lack of supply. 16:27:00 <Rubidium> :) 16:27:18 <andythenorth> it's not enough, and it leads to a mass extinction of secondary industry 5 years into the game 16:27:23 <Rubidium> FYI: the compile farm is still capable of building OS X binaries; it's just still horribly slow 16:27:36 <andythenorth> And I could still send you an intel mac 16:28:03 <andythenorth> anyway, back to problems that *can* be solved....a grace period of twenty years seems more appropriate 16:28:13 <andythenorth> large industrial plants are mothballed, not just destroyed 16:28:20 <Rubidium> you could, but I won't burn my fingers on Apple's APIs 16:28:37 <andythenorth> and then I need some way to spread out the closing of industries so there is no mass exctinction 16:28:43 <andythenorth> extinction /s 16:29:51 <andythenorth> I could store a random seed in persistent storage at each industry - this would be used to spread closures out 16:31:30 <andythenorth> or I could just prevent closure of secondary industry (which is very easy) 16:33:41 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'd try to limit the number of industries of the same type that can close within a certain time (year?) 16:33:57 <andythenorth> that would need a patch 16:34:05 <Eddi|zuHause> so industries will not close all at the same time, but instead one by one 16:34:10 <andythenorth> hmm 16:34:35 <andythenorth> I could keep running the industry count var, and do something with comparing that I suppose 16:35:22 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I think it's a good suggestion. I don't think the implementation is trivial 16:35:27 <Eddi|zuHause> you have global variables, right? so you just set a bit for each industry type, if you close one such industries, when the bit is already set, you skip closing the industry. at the end of the year, you reset the variable? 16:35:36 <andythenorth> yep 16:35:49 <andythenorth> or nope 16:35:57 <andythenorth> depends what you mean by 'global' variables 16:36:24 <Eddi|zuHause> one that is accessible from any place in the grf 16:36:31 <andythenorth> not as far as I know 16:36:44 <Eddi|zuHause> iirc you can use parameters for that 16:36:52 <andythenorth> hmm 16:37:02 * andythenorth wikis 16:38:29 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I can't see how a varaction 2 is going to write to one of the grf parameters :o 16:38:35 <andythenorth> if it could, it would be....handy 16:38:51 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i'd have to read up on that... 16:40:22 <andythenorth> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ActionD 16:42:11 <Eddi|zuHause> but Action D only seems to be run on grf activation, not during callbacks and stuff... 16:44:05 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I can see how to do it with persistent storage at the industry.... 16:44:35 <andythenorth> I would use the industry count var 16:45:09 <andythenorth> I can forsee a strange whack-a-mole side effect though! 16:45:39 <Eddi|zuHause> what do these "store" operators of varaction2 do? 16:45:54 <andythenorth> stick values in registers or persistent storage 16:46:08 *** DJNekkid [~thomas@static128-249.adsl.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:46:12 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:49:35 <Eddi|zuHause> how do you propose to do this with an industry-local storage only? 16:51:54 *** DJNekkid [~thomas@static128-249.adsl.no] has joined #openttd 16:54:24 *** snorre_ [~snorre@c692BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 16:55:08 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: for each industry: once per year, count and store the number of industries of type x; when the closure cb runs, test if the count has changed. If it is the same, allow closure. If it is different, prevent closure 16:56:07 <Eddi|zuHause> so you can end up with repeated open/close industries in some corner cases 16:56:11 <andythenorth> yes 16:56:12 *** snorre [~snorre@c692BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:56:16 <andythenorth> whack-a-mole :) 16:56:38 <andythenorth> Currently my preference is to prevent closure entirely 16:56:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that's going to be very dramatic 16:57:13 <Eddi|zuHause> no closure at all? that sounds silly... 16:58:50 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590febe0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:59:30 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: something smells wrong about doing this in nfo 16:59:36 <andythenorth> it seems like it should be in game 16:59:51 <andythenorth> *so* many players have reported this as an irritant 17:00:27 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i have only ever heard of complaints about ECS, never about the default industries 17:00:46 <andythenorth> perhaps 17:01:19 <andythenorth> on large maps there will often be a mass extinction of industries after five years 17:01:54 <andythenorth> the solution you described would solve that, but it would be better patched for...the nfo route is baroque 17:04:58 * andythenorth has spent most of today watching industries close on fast-forward 17:05:07 <andythenorth> not the most exciting day in recent times 17:08:43 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.A212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 17:09:30 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@188.126.205.150] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:11:41 * andythenorth oblique strategies time 17:11:59 <andythenorth> "Faced with a choice, do both" 17:12:01 <andythenorth> hmm 17:13:43 *** ptr [~peter@wpa-n21-p38.kthopen.kth.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 17:14:07 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@188.126.205.150] has joined #openttd 17:15:22 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.134] has joined #openttd 17:16:30 *** ptr [~peter@wpa-n21-p38.kthopen.kth.se] has joined #openttd 17:19:27 * andythenorth has an idea 17:19:39 <dih> congrats 17:20:10 <andythenorth> it's a bit evil 17:24:29 <andythenorth> so lets say I want to randomly choose one value from 4 ,8, 12, 16 17:24:36 <andythenorth> how do I do that cleanly in nfo? 17:32:19 <Eddi|zuHause> mask with 0x3, add 1, shift by 2 17:33:49 <Eddi|zuHause> or mask with 0xB (=0xF-0x3) and add 4 17:34:40 <andythenorth> ow 17:34:44 <Eddi|zuHause> 0xB is 1100 (i believe), so you get values 0,4,8,12 17:35:07 <andythenorth> does this come in a pre-written nfo flavour :) 17:35:22 <Eddi|zuHause> isn't that a simple varadjust? 17:35:24 <andythenorth> sorry, normally I try, but babies steal my sleep 17:35:29 <andythenorth> at the moment 17:35:44 <Eddi|zuHause> more than one? 17:35:51 <andythenorth> actually just the one 17:36:10 <glx> Eddi|zuHause: actually 0x1100 is 0xC 17:36:26 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: possibly, i can't count := 17:36:32 <glx> well 1100 ;) 17:36:36 <Eddi|zuHause> especially not the alphabet backwards :) 17:38:23 <andythenorth> hmm 17:38:42 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so you set bit 6 in shift-num (=0x40?), then 0xC as and-mask, 0x4 as add-val and 0x1 as divide-val 17:40:19 <Eddi|zuHause> results in 40 0C (00 00 00) 04 (00 00 00) 01 (00 00 00) 17:40:42 <Eddi|zuHause> where the numbers in () are dependent on the bit-width 17:41:20 <andythenorth> thanks 17:41:26 * andythenorth thinks of a way to test that 17:41:38 * andythenorth needs a cb that runs when an industry is built 17:41:56 <andythenorth> cb 14B might do that 17:44:02 * andythenorth is too tired for nfo! 17:46:28 *** fjb [~frank@p5485BCDC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47:01 <andythenorth> ha ha completely different idea, flash game style coding 17:47:16 <andythenorth> I however realise this channel is becoming a monologue, by me 17:47:32 <andythenorth> I unusually have time on my hands :o 17:49:35 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:50:39 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74FBC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:50:54 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74FBC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:52:15 *** Tennel [~Tennel@88.150.10.254] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.1.1] 17:58:56 *** Tennel [~Tennel@88.150.10.254] has joined #openttd 17:59:25 <Belugas> mind you opening your hands, i might grab a few of that precious time! 17:59:38 <peter1138> blueergh 18:00:09 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust443.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:01:11 <andythenorth> sometimes doing things 'wrong' is just nicer 18:02:59 *** Tennel [~Tennel@88.150.10.254] has quit [] 18:08:53 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust443.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:10:06 <Belugas> yeah.. like keep playing that false note for a while and it will become right :D 18:17:31 <DJNekkid> is the grfID in little endian? 18:19:39 <DJNekkid> DJNekkid: yes 18:19:44 <DJNekkid> :D 18:20:34 <Eddi|zuHause> DJNekkid: why does that matter? 18:20:55 <Eddi|zuHause> it's never converted to a decimal number anywere 18:21:09 <Eddi|zuHause> or used as a number at all... 18:21:38 <glx> except to compare it with another GRFID 18:21:39 <DJNekkid> how i would write an action 7/9 that skips if this or that ID is active :) 18:22:13 <DJNekkid> and i know the grfID 18:22:15 <Eddi|zuHause> just write it the same way as it appears in action 8 18:22:21 <DJNekkid> i found that out :) 18:22:23 <Hirundo> ID of what? 18:22:38 <Hirundo> grfID or vehicle/station ID? 18:22:45 <DJNekkid> grfID 18:23:32 <Eddi|zuHause> DJNekkid: it is generally safe to assume that anything in NFO is little endian 18:23:48 <DJNekkid> yup :) 18:23:58 <Ammler> I thought, everything except the GRFID :-) 18:24:24 <Hirundo> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action7 <- condition 06 to 0A, 09 seems best in this case 18:24:54 <DJNekkid> Hirundo: i figuered out what to do... 18:25:28 <DJNekkid> it were the grfID in were AABBCCDD or \dxAABBCCDD :) 18:25:38 <DJNekkid> (AA BB CC DD) 18:25:43 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-196-173-218.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:26:41 <Ammler> [19:25] <DJNekkid> it were the grfID in were AABBCCDD or \dxAABBCCDD ï¿Œ <-- isn't that big endian? 18:27:37 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:28:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: the first one is little endian, the second one is big endian, and he asked which one is right 18:28:57 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 18:29:28 <andythenorth> renum is stumbling on this * 1A 20 \d04 //multiply a bit for luck 18:29:30 <Eddi|zuHause> (and the answer is: the first) 18:29:43 <andythenorth> that's supposed to multiply previous value by 4 18:30:06 <andythenorth> 1A is the var to create constant, the 20 is there because I'm going to store it in the next operation 18:30:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i have never used renum 18:30:36 <andythenorth> do I need to mask it? 18:31:10 <Hirundo> What is the error message? 18:31:37 <andythenorth> Hirundo: http://paste.openttd.org/225281 18:31:56 <andythenorth> umm 18:31:57 <andythenorth> no 18:32:22 <andythenorth> hang on a mo 18:32:52 <andythenorth> Hirundo: http://paste.openttd.org/225282 18:32:52 *** De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-180-59.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 18:34:31 <Hirundo> * 20 \d04 //multiply a bit for luck <- missing variable (1A) here? 18:35:53 <andythenorth> yup 18:36:40 <andythenorth> doesn't fix it though :) 18:37:24 <blathijs> DaleStan: Is Makefile.common in grfcodec still relevant? A comment in there says it is used for both the normal Makefile and Makefile.win, but the normal Makefile includes stuff from Makefil.common already and Makefile.win doesn't seem to exist? 18:38:27 <Hirundo> 18 20 07 //randomise <- no dword-sized and-mask here, I think 18:38:57 <andythenorth> yup 18:39:03 <andythenorth> thanks 18:39:09 <blathijs> DaleStan: Seems Makefile.win got removed in r2167, so I guess Makefile.common should go as well? 18:39:20 <andythenorth> Hirundo: fixed 18:39:22 <andythenorth> :) 18:40:56 *** De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-180-59.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:41:58 <andythenorth> hmm 18:42:27 <andythenorth> are there any permanently available random bits lurking in an industry anywhere? 18:43:33 <Eddi|zuHause> put them in the persistent storage? 18:45:31 <Eddi|zuHause> on a quick glance i find random bits for industrytiles... 18:47:24 <Eddi|zuHause> the Industry struct has a "uint16 random; ///< Random value used for randomisation of all kinds of things" 18:48:08 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: yep could put them into persistent storage. I'd need to use cb 14B and I can't be bothered to figure that out today :o 18:48:24 <andythenorth> unless there is another cb that runs when industry is built 18:48:44 <andythenorth> If I get cb 14B wrong...I screw the cargos for the industry :) 18:49:26 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:49:32 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc069e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:53:15 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@60.150.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:53:24 <Eddi|zuHause> there certainly are random bits for industries, but i don't find how you access them... 18:54:15 <frosch123> via randomaction2 or var 5f 18:54:28 *** enr1x [~kiike@77.229.85.144] has joined #openttd 18:56:01 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r19440 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) 18:56:01 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:56:01 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: catalan - 2 changes by arnau 18:56:01 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: czech - 7 changes by TheLamer 18:56:01 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frisian - 97 changes by Fopper 18:56:02 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: greek - 4 changes by 18:56:02 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: icelandic - 34 changes by baldur 18:56:24 <Eddi|zuHause> case 0x5F: return (object->GetRandomBits(object) << 8) | object->GetTriggers(object); <-- that's probably the place 18:56:47 <andythenorth> frosch123: is var 5F consistent, i.e. will it always return the same random bits for a given industry? 18:56:59 <andythenorth> (that would seem undesirable generally, but it's what I am after) 18:57:24 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19441 /trunk/src/lang/greek.txt: -Fix (r19437): broken Greek translation. 18:57:36 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19442 /trunk/ (known-bugs.txt readme.txt): -Update: readme about openmsx and make it easier to find the pulseaudio-ubuntu-slowness bug in the readme/known-bugs 18:57:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what a trigger is, but otherwise it seems to remain constant 18:57:47 <PeterT> CIA-6: You're slow today 18:57:58 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r19443 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3701]: Mark industry windows dirty more often. 18:57:59 <frosch123> andythenorth: it is only randomised on creation or by using an randomaction2 with triggers 18:58:49 <andythenorth> so it could change during the game? 18:59:41 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: only when you want it to (i believe) 18:59:42 <frosch123> only if you tell them to change 18:59:52 <andythenorth> ok thanks 19:00:38 <ptr> katt 19:01:31 <frosch123> andythenorth, Eddi|zuHause: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VariationalAction2#Variable http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=RandomAction2#Industry_tile_triggers <- for your reference 19:03:38 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-213-127.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 19:04:36 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:84ec:6185:69d3:4a9d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:04:47 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:84ec:6185:69d3:4a9d] has joined #openttd 19:04:50 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 19:05:40 *** rhaeder2 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-128-075.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 19:07:03 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-139-111.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:08:21 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-165-146-207.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 19:11:43 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-213-127.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:12:05 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.A212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 19:15:44 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19444 /trunk/bin/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Update: base set translations for Polish, Slovak and Turkish. 19:16:05 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust443.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:19:21 <peter1138> andythenorth, persistent random bits are very desirable, heh 19:19:42 <peter1138> think randomised liveries, for example 19:20:04 <Eddi|zuHause> industry producing random cargos :) 19:23:43 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has joined #openttd 19:32:28 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:33:07 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 19:33:10 <andythenorth> renum: //!!Warning (86): Offset 4: Testing nonexistant variable 5F. 19:33:26 <andythenorth> from 89 5F 20 \dx07 19:33:54 *** enr1x [~kiike@77.229.85.144] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:35:10 *** Zuu [~Zuu@212.28.207.194] has joined #openttd 19:36:30 <Zuu> Yexo: Is it a design desicion or a bug that AI libraries can't be cyclic dependent on eachother? 19:37:47 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: did you try ingame? maybe it's a renum bug 19:38:13 <andythenorth> seems to work. I'm getting signed values though 19:38:27 *** ptr [~peter@wpa-n21-p38.kthopen.kth.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 19:38:33 <andythenorth> I need a mask 19:38:45 <Eddi|zuHause> whether a value is signed or unsigned is purely interpretation dependent 19:38:45 <andythenorth> so if I want random 0-7, how do I mask for that 19:39:11 <andythenorth> It's a dword "Feature-specific random data: triggers in low byte, bits in other three bytes. Bits of the variable not associated with random or trigger bits are reserved" 19:39:44 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-254-113-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 19:39:54 <Eddi|zuHause> a shift of 8 and mask of 0F 00 00 00, probably 19:39:59 <Nite_Owl> Hello all 19:46:30 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause / frosch123 http://paste.openttd.org/225285 19:46:41 <andythenorth> line 4 is my attempt to get random 0-7 from var 5F 19:46:44 <andythenorth> fail :) 19:48:17 <Eddi|zuHause> no, not \dxBLAH... just BLAH 19:48:32 <frosch123> 5F 28 \dx07 19:48:35 <Eddi|zuHause> shift 8, to mask out the trigger bits 19:49:03 <frosch123> or \dxFF ? do you want values 0-7 or bits 0-7 ? 19:49:14 <Eddi|zuHause> \dx0F, i presume 19:49:27 <Eddi|zuHause> no, that's 15 19:49:37 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, \dx07 is for 0-7 19:49:38 <frosch123> 7 is 7 :p 19:51:33 *** ajmiles2 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:57:55 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:58:11 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc069e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:02:22 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-28-199.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:02:32 <Yexo> <Zuu> Yexo: Is it a design desicion or a bug that AI libraries can't be cyclic dependent on eachother? <- where is that not possible? In the game or on bananas? 20:02:49 <Zuu> In game 20:02:54 <Yexo> but imo if two libraries are cyclic dependent you should merge them in one library 20:03:25 <Zuu> That is what I'm trying to do or rather trying to keep them organized in classes but in the same big library. 20:03:31 <andythenorth> there's a fast-forward bug on OS X right? 20:04:21 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-247-150.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 20:04:24 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 20:04:25 <andythenorth> that is a very useful bug today 20:04:29 <Zuu> Trying to break out common stuff from CluelessPlus and PAXLink will most likely result in a big library on bananas that has cyclic dependencies inside it. 20:05:10 <Zuu> Btw, using require inside a library is that allowed? OpenTTD do not complain, but the classes seam to appear at global scope in the AI that uses the library. 20:05:25 <Zuu> In my case that is not a problem, but for someone else it could become. 20:05:33 <Yexo> each library can only have one class 20:05:51 <Yexo> if it has more then one class the others will end up in the global scope currently, but that is bad 20:06:03 <Zuu> Yep, but you can create static members in that class with instances of other classes. 20:06:48 *** Uresu [~Wes@5ace7b73.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 20:06:56 <Zuu> I agree that having them in global scope is bad, still I'm not really happy with merging all my utilities into just a single class. 20:07:21 <Yexo> you could use subclasses 20:07:23 <Yexo> that should work fine 20:07:37 <Yexo> ehm, nut subclasses, but child classes 20:08:12 <Zuu> If I can figure out how that will work I'll might make a script that compile the main.nut file from files with the subclass files. 20:08:42 <Zuu> s/compile/compose/ 20:09:15 <Zuu> Child classes is basically a nested class definition? 20:09:48 <peter1138> 20:03 < andythenorth> there's a fast-forward bug on OS X right? 20:09:51 <peter1138> is there? 20:09:58 <Yexo> Zuu: yes 20:10:27 <andythenorth> peter1138 in the first couple of months...super speedy. I'm sure Rubidium mentioned it in a discussion somewhere :o 20:10:38 <andythenorth> kind of useful for testing industry closure though 20:10:53 <peter1138> superspeedy? 20:11:05 <peter1138> fast-forward goes as fast as your system can 20:11:08 <peter1138> that is not a bug 20:11:36 <Yexo> it the first few months go very fast and then it slows down an AI probably started at that time 20:12:04 <andythenorth> Yexo: :o 20:12:24 <andythenorth> thanks, that could save me a lot of time staring at industry windows 20:17:27 <Zuu> The Road Pathfinder, v3 has a class "Road.Cost" defined after the main class (after the ending } ), this class is not a subclass right? 20:17:38 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-165-146-207.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:17:59 <andythenorth> woah that's strange industry generation on big map 20:18:09 <Zuu> I tried this http://paste.openttd.org/225286 , but OpenTTD complains on line 3: "expected IDENTIFIER" 20:18:26 <Zuu> (sorry, for my bad food examples) 20:19:05 <andythenorth> 2578 coal mines, 1517 power stations, 963 sawmills. 1 of everything else :o 20:19:14 <andythenorth> I don't *think* that's my fault 20:19:17 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:19:27 <Yexo> Zuu: does this work? http://paste.openttd.org/225287 20:19:27 *** De_Ghosty [~s@75-119-230-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 20:20:13 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r19445 /trunk/src/ (rail_gui.cpp road_gui.cpp): -Change: No need to drag an area when overbuilding bridges. 20:20:18 <Zuu> no, now it says "expected '=' on the same row. 20:23:34 <andythenorth> does ^ raise to a power? 20:23:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd assume bitwise xor 20:25:02 <Eddi|zuHause> power is usually only available for floating point arithmetics 20:25:17 <Eddi|zuHause> as integer power is quite calculation intensive 20:26:02 <frosch123> you can only multiply with powers of two by shifting 20:26:20 <andythenorth> ok 20:26:39 <Eddi|zuHause> pow(a,b) can be calculated by the "square and multiply" algorithm 20:27:03 <Eddi|zuHause> but for float values, pow(a,b) is exp(b*log(a)) 20:27:28 *** De_Ghosty [~s@75-119-230-146.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:27:37 <Eddi|zuHause> where exp and log translate to FPU commands 20:28:00 <andythenorth> some var * some var again does the trick :) 20:30:24 <Eddi|zuHause> if you want integer power for arbitrary values, the algorithm is: pow(a,b) { if (b==0) return 1; result := pow(a,b/2); result*=result; if (b is odd) result*=a; return result; } 20:31:42 <andythenorth> :) 20:31:46 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.159] has joined #openttd 20:31:47 <andythenorth> doesn't look much like nfo to me 20:32:09 <Eddi|zuHause> turning that into NFO is easy, just have to read it backwards :) 20:32:47 <Zuu> Yexo: After experimenting a bit I came up with this: http://paste.openttd.org/225288 - but I have not yet figured out how to not need to define the functions in the same place as they are declared. 20:33:29 <Zuu> It's basically an un-named class so I guess it's hard to not define the functions straight away in the declarations. 20:33:33 <Eddi|zuHause> you can probably also turn that into an iterative version 20:33:52 <Yexo> Zuu: yes, s/hard/impossible/ even 20:34:21 <andythenorth> oh. Mass industry extinctions still happening :| 20:35:34 <Eddi|zuHause> for(res=1;b!=0;r=b&1,b>>=1) { res*=res; if (r) res*=a } 20:35:39 <Eddi|zuHause> or something similar... 20:35:59 <Zuu> A problem with not being able to split the classes into files is that you can't solve cyclic dependancies then. Unless squirrel support adding functions after a class has been declared. 20:36:20 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, that's probably not correct 20:37:19 <Yexo> Zuu: you can call a function before it is defined, as long as the function definition is encountered before the call is actually executed 20:37:36 <Eddi|zuHause> b must be unrolled from the other end 20:38:30 <Eddi|zuHause> so b<<=1,r=get_overflow_flag_somehow 20:38:41 <Zuu> Hmm, got the problem that it didn't find classes when I just inlined all my code in main.nut at global scope. 20:39:18 <Yexo> the main class is renamed by openttd 20:39:58 <Zuu> Yep, but the main class was in this case rather empty. They used the global-scope names of the sub-libraries. 20:42:12 <Zuu> Ah, sorry, it was the main class that didn't find the global scope classes, since I didn't move the main class to the bottom. 20:42:43 <Zuu> Doing that, the subclasses can be interdependent with cyclic dependencies (at global scope) in a single file. 20:43:52 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 20:44:24 <Zuu> So mayby using the child classes will work technically, but would produce a main.nut that hardly could be used as doccumentation. 20:45:08 <Yexo> you could work in multiple files and cat them together before releasing 20:45:13 <Yexo> a bit of a hack, but that could work 20:47:47 <Zuu> That was my plan. Though I was planing to use some more logic in the script to not have move around the code, but that might just make a mess of it. 20:48:19 <andythenorth> code random is never quite as random as it ought to be :o 20:48:27 <Zuu> I usually put the documentating comments about how to use a function at the declaration rather than at the definitions. 20:48:43 <Zuu> A such file can't be cated togeather. 20:52:05 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1FC7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53:59 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 20:59:16 * andythenorth is going to fix industry closure if it kills him (possible!) 21:00:01 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@60.150.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd 21:02:01 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@48.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 21:02:19 <Terkhen> hello 21:03:39 <Alberth> andythenorth: just remove it from the newgrf specs, so the program code can be fixed :p 21:04:05 <andythenorth> Alberth: tempting 21:04:16 <andythenorth> not my call though :) 21:05:26 * frosch123 wonders why petert still did not become coder of cets 21:06:26 * andythenorth suspects some law of large numbers 21:07:20 <andythenorth> if 10 industries each sum a lot of random numbers, they'll probably get the same result? 21:08:21 <frosch123> then you need different frequencies 21:08:47 <andythenorth> ? 21:09:17 <frosch123> small noise which changes often, larger noise which only changes over years 21:10:06 <andythenorth> frosch123: here is my current code 21:10:07 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttd.org/225291 21:10:29 <Belugas> YOUHOU!!!!! 21:10:37 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it can only work if the industries have another protection period after an industry closed, or if the closing probability depends on the number of closed industries 21:10:38 <frosch123> instead of checking every month for 1% closure, compute a random number of months when to check the next time or so 21:10:38 <Alberth> bye Belugas 21:10:42 <Belugas> freedom freedom, we will not obey 21:10:57 <Belugas> freedom freedom take them all away! 21:11:07 <Belugas> bye Alberth :D 21:11:10 <andythenorth> bye 21:11:10 <Belugas> and the others too!! 21:11:12 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: there seems to be no global storage 21:11:15 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:11:22 <Eddi|zuHause> only industry-local 21:11:32 <frosch123> yup, what's the problem with that? 21:11:56 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: so what happens with one industry cannot easily influence what happens with other industries 21:12:21 <frosch123> you talk about 5 year protection after building. but you should consider a yearly chance of 10% to start a 5 year protection period 21:13:16 <frosch123> don't make industries change production monthly by +- 5%, but make them decide to increase production by 20% over the next 5 years 21:13:37 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, that might sound interesting 21:13:42 <frosch123> make stuff random, but random in big scale. no continuous small stuff 21:14:32 <andythenorth> frosch123: sounds like I should learn to work with dates in nfo :| 21:14:55 <frosch123> dates are stupid :) count months in the monthly callback 21:15:46 <frosch123> that is more fool proof wrt. changing date by cheat, starting before 1920 or even using daylength 21:16:22 <andythenorth> so wait n months (random) before trying to do the closure....fewer checks, less chance that all industries will converge on similar values 21:17:25 <frosch123> i would think so 21:18:36 <andythenorth> still smells like a game thing, I think it's a problem for all industry sets :) 21:18:37 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@60.150.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 21:19:16 <andythenorth> hmm 21:19:41 <andythenorth> Instead of monthly production change cb, I could just wait for the random one to get called. Don't really know how that works though. 21:20:51 <frosch123> true, the random change might also be useful for that 21:21:17 <frosch123> then you could do smaller changes +-1% in the monthly thingie, and bigger scale decisions in the random one 21:22:09 <frosch123> e.g. decide in the random one to increase by +-1% every month until the next random change appears 21:22:36 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 21:22:41 <andythenorth> does the random one apply to secondary industries? The documentation around it is unclear 21:22:50 <frosch123> (that is a linear increase/decrease between the random change callback) 21:23:48 <frosch123> the callbacks are called the same for all industries 21:24:12 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i presume that it applies to all industries, but for secondary industries only for the cargo that gets produced without any input 21:24:20 <andythenorth> I'll try it 21:24:36 * andythenorth contemplates watching yet another game for 10 years on fast forward :o 21:26:13 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-254-113-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon] 21:28:43 <andythenorth> does the random production change scale with map size, or number of industries in game? 21:34:26 <frosch123> with map size 21:35:09 <frosch123> if you start a 2048x2048 map with a single industry, it will change production every few days :p 21:36:04 <andythenorth> so if there are very few industries on that map, they'll get culled fast 21:36:05 <andythenorth> ? 21:36:17 <andythenorth> and as industries close, it's ever more likely that the remaining ones close? 21:36:18 <frosch123> yup 21:36:57 <frosch123> well, about the closure ... no idea 21:37:33 <andythenorth> as industry count decreases, frequency they are chosen by random cb increases? 21:37:42 <frosch123> that is true 21:39:22 <frosch123> [22:38] <frosch123> if you start a 2048x2048 map with a single industry, it will change production every few days :p <- twice a day actually 21:43:38 <frosch123> night 21:43:43 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590febe0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:00 *** dfox [~dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:31 *** dfox [~dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 22:00:32 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-196-180-43.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 22:05:14 * andythenorth thinks upside down and comes out right side up 22:05:41 <Zuu> Yexo: will BaNaNaS complain if you include other files than main.nut and library.nut in a tar? Eg. can I include my source files there or do I need to refer people to somewhere else to get the source files? 22:06:17 <Yexo> I think you can include as many *.nut files as you want 22:06:26 <Yexo> but I'm not sure 22:06:31 <Yexo> TrueBrain should know 22:06:38 <Zuu> Ok, then I'll try when it's time for BaNaNaS. 22:07:45 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1FC7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:07:58 <TrueBrain> just try it :p 22:07:59 <Zuu> I've done my ruby script now. 22:08:00 <TrueBrain> wouldn't know :) 22:08:01 <TrueBrain> long time ago :p 22:08:05 <Zuu> hehe 22:08:10 <Zuu> yep, better try and see. 22:08:36 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-196-180-43.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:10:26 <Zuu> Now that I got you both here, the one of you Yexo and TrueBrain who can add projects to noai.openttd.org can I asks for "CluelessPlus" and "SuperLib"? 22:10:39 <TrueBrain> Yexo can do that :) 22:10:42 <Yexo> sure 22:11:08 <Zuu> Thanks 22:11:16 <Yexo> "cluelessplus" and "superlib" as identifiers? 22:11:22 <Yexo> the identifier is part of the url and can't be changed later 22:11:29 <Zuu> Ok, that's fine 22:11:36 <Yexo> hmm, is "lib-super" also fine? 22:11:40 <Yexo> all libraries have that 22:11:49 <Zuu> yea, that's probably better then. 22:12:02 <Yexo> and then and "ai-cluelessplus" then too 22:12:12 <Zuu> sure 22:14:15 <Yexo> ok, done :) 22:14:30 <Yexo> you might have to wait up to an hour for the svn repo to be created 22:14:42 <Yexo> it was *:14 or *:18 I think, but that might have changed 22:18:24 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-205-064.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Something strange must have happened...] 22:20:36 *** roboboy [996b2198@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 22:20:43 <Zuu> Ok, I'm off for bed anyways. Sleeping over at the office I need to make sure I'm up and ready before anyone else arrives in the morining. :-) 22:21:14 <Zuu> I've posted a zip with the library and the ruby script at tt-forums if you are interested. 22:21:17 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19446 /branches/1.0/ (41 files in 9 dirs): 22:21:17 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk: 22:21:17 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: Mark industry windows dirty more often [FS#3701] (r19443) 22:21:17 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Update: Readme about openmsx and make it easier to find the pulseaudio-ubuntu-slowness bug in the readme/known-bugs (r19442) 22:21:17 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Language updates 22:21:42 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: heffer] 22:29:28 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has quit [Quit: Quit] 22:31:21 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-196-141-7.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 22:33:34 *** Zuu [~Zuu@212.28.207.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:38:05 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 23:05:09 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-19-44.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:07 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc069e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:12:19 *** elmz [~elmz@ti0031a380-0504.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 23:17:02 *** ajmiles2 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:19:58 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:20:30 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19447 /tags/1.0.0-RC3/ (5 files in 4 dirs): -Release: 1.0.0-RC3 23:25:43 *** Uresu [~Wes@5ace7b73.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:28:14 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:29:12 *** Uresu [~Wes@5ace7b73.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 23:30:15 *** Uresu [~Wes@5ace7b73.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:56 *** deghosty [~s@69-165-155-51.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 23:33:06 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-196-141-7.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:38:15 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@CPE-58-173-248-50.szxn1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:39:18 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you're right about needing to check for other similar industry closing. Think it's the only way to prevent 'waves' of closure 23:39:31 <andythenorth> so now I'll have to code that :) 23:39:56 *** deghosty [~s@69-165-155-51.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:40:09 <Pikka> andy: or just add a random amount to the protected time ;) 23:40:16 <Pikka> quasi-random 23:41:03 <andythenorth> Pikka: you've missed all that fun :) 23:41:09 <andythenorth> That's kind of happening 23:41:14 <Pikka> :P k 23:41:25 <andythenorth> but put enough random numbers together, the effect stops being random :) 23:42:24 *** De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-146-247.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 23:42:37 <andythenorth> I'm going to have to count the buggers :o 23:42:47 <Pikka> bugger. 23:44:03 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: other option is: on creation you make an even distribution of protection periods between 5 and 30 years 23:45:25 <Eddi|zuHause> that will spread out the closing wave very far 23:45:57 <Rubidium> just create one industry of everything at map creation! 23:46:14 <Rubidium> then there won't be a big wave of closures :) 23:46:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: there won't be an industry network either :) 23:47:34 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:48:39 <Eddi|zuHause> or make the closure chance dependent on game time, like 0.1% per year since game start 23:49:06 <Eddi|zuHause> so you have a progressing rate, instead of a protection period and a jump 23:49:13 <andythenorth> add enough inustries, they'll still end up in sync 23:49:51 <Eddi|zuHause> in late game you have like a 10% closure chance for new industries, so you'll have to incorporate them into your network quickly 23:50:54 <Pikka> andy: obviously if the number of industries that need closing is greater than the number of possible closing date, you're going to have some collisions? 23:51:27 <andythenorth> yes 23:51:45 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... either the cat has grown too big, or the empty area of my desk has grown too small 23:52:04 <Eddi|zuHause> no matter how the cat lies, it always ends up with some part on the keyboard 23:52:11 *** _teeone [oryan@sometimes.hoes.need.to.be.slapped.us] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:53:29 *** teeone [oryan@sometimes.hoes.need.to.be.slapped.us] has joined #openttd 23:54:38 <Terkhen> hmmm... too many vehicles in game 23:54:42 <Terkhen> time for bed :P 23:54:44 <Terkhen> good night 23:55:08 <Rubidium> night Terkhen 23:55:19 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@48.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...] 23:57:53 <andythenorth> tomorrow...I make friends with industry var 67 23:58:22 <Pikka> good times 23:58:34 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd 23:59:02 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19448 /extra/website/general/utils/agent_detection.py: [Website] -Add: detection of Ubuntu user agents