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00:01:18 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:02:57 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [] 00:06:24 *** fjb [~frank@p5485DB3A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:07:01 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 00:08:17 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-f5f9e253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:09:38 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74AB0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:09:58 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76028.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:10:36 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 00:18:58 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2D9C78.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Regel Nr. 1: Jeder hört auf mein Kommando! - Regel Nr. 2: Jeder bleibt auf dem Weg! - Regel Nr. 3: ... ... Der, der blÀht, als hinterster geht!] 00:21:30 *** IPG [~chatzilla@daisu.martos.bme.hu] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]] 00:23:48 <Eddi|zuHause> how do people get totally distorted 2MB PNGs up in the forum? 00:23:55 <Eddi|zuHause> it's worse than JPG... 00:24:06 *** APTX_ [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 00:24:38 <Yexo> by resizing the image slightly i think 00:24:55 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: are you talking about the stupid thumbnails? 00:25:14 <Rubidium> those where the forum makes 2 MB PNGs from 100 KiB PNGs? 00:25:14 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i disabled images in the forum, including the thumbnails 00:25:19 <Eddi|zuHause> but the real image is 2MB 00:25:25 <Yexo> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=865412#p865412 that one 00:25:25 *** ChoHag [~mking@109-170-148-202.xdsl.murphx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:25:47 <Eddi|zuHause> specifically, i disabled images _because_ of the thumbnails 00:25:51 <Eddi|zuHause> they are horrible 00:26:01 <Eddi|zuHause> they aren't even real thumbnails 00:26:05 <Yexo> thumbnail in that case is 'only' 780kb 00:26:13 <Eddi|zuHause> thumbnails are something like 100x60 pixels 00:26:27 <Rubidium> hmm... making screenshot to JPG, then seeing you should post PNG and converting it? 00:26:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what huge thumbs orudge has, though 00:26:57 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe he used the sledge hammer a few too many times :p 00:28:16 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:32:56 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-131-089.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 00:34:51 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r19462 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_airport.cpp station_base.h table/airport_defaults.h): -Codechange: use the AS_GENERIC macro also for the dummy airport 00:34:52 *** woldemar [~osaka@213.178.34.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:35:24 *** KenjiE20|LT [~KenjiE20@host86-170-57-117.range86-170.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 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[~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 01:27:52 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-196-180-154.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 01:30:32 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1FF9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:42:02 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e067f1c.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 01:45:42 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-141-233.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:49:53 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 02:09:56 *** Elessar [~tanguy@vanvogt.ortolo.eu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:09:59 *** Elessar [~tanguy@vanvogt.ortolo.eu] has joined #openttd 02:26:45 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-19-44.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 02:28:42 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:30:01 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 02:41:06 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 02:42:19 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:45:15 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:45:21 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:45:52 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 02:47:37 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 02:47:53 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 02:51:40 *** KenjiE20|LT [~KenjiE20@host86-170-57-117.range86-170.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:52:00 *** Nite [5472b1fc@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 02:52:21 <Nite> Hi 02:53:32 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 02:54:14 <Nite> im just so stunned by the richness of ottd, especially compared to commercial "build up" strategy games, cant think of anything with that much detail or finetunign adaptability 02:55:00 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-131-089.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:55:34 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [] 02:56:03 <Nite> ottd is simply ahead when it comes to strategy games 02:56:12 <Eddi|zuHause> that's because commercial games don't get 10 years of development time 02:57:11 <Nite> well there are game series that get that much development time - but only their graphics developes while gameplay often shrinks. 02:57:32 <Nite> in ottd its all about the gameplay, constantly growing 02:57:32 <Eddi|zuHause> they get one or two years, maybe an addon half a year later, and then they start from scratch with a new game 02:58:26 <Eddi|zuHause> tbh, the graphics don't evolve because we don't have the manpower for that, not because we don't want to 02:59:10 <Nite> i think of c&c series it was great at the beginning but did not evolve 02:59:51 <Nite> last anno title is stunning though 03:00:46 <Jolteon> C&C RA2 = best. 03:01:03 <Nite> throwing out features killed lot of commercial games i think. 03:01:57 <Nite> c&c & ra WaS the best i think its now a not more than a nice gimmick 03:02:11 <Eddi|zuHause> they don't "throw out" features they "not include" features because they couldn't be finished in time 03:02:41 <Eddi|zuHause> just go to the development forum, and you have at least half a dozen large features that are "not included" in openttd 03:02:55 <Nite> many games where what some call streamlined ... 03:03:31 <Nite> i was not talking about ottd - clearly ottd keeps all the good features! 03:04:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think you understand how software development works 03:04:32 <Nite> again i get missunderstood in these forums 03:05:59 <Nite> i was compring ottd to commercial and think that ottd is better. 03:06:16 <Nite> what makes you think i don't understand? 03:06:46 <Eddi|zuHause> you talk about "thrown out" features, where that hardly ever happens 03:07:26 <Nite> it happened in sooo many game series. 03:08:00 <Eddi|zuHause> please, give some examples 03:09:00 <Nite> worst of all are teh 3d shooters i think - simply generic. tooo many to name. 03:09:44 <Nite> with "throw out" i also mean throw out of the plan. 03:10:03 <Eddi|zuHause> that may be true, but this is irrelevant, as you didn't actually give an example of a feature 03:10:58 <Nite> may it be as irrelevant as you like it to be - just wanted to praise ottd a little. ;) 03:12:35 <Eddi|zuHause> ottd does not need praising, we know it is good. what you did was downtalk other games, without giving proper reasons 03:14:09 <Eddi|zuHause> you just said "3d shooters are bad", which, if games were humans, would be borderline racist 03:16:06 <Eddi|zuHause> that may just be influenced by your personal preference. also, 3d shooters may look "generic" because there's generally an overflowed market 03:16:45 <Eddi|zuHause> because the "density" of games is higher, it is natural that the difference in features is lower 03:17:54 <Nite> true its a personal preference - simply have enough from the 3dshooter genere 03:18:12 <Eddi|zuHause> openttd looks so "good", because it is serving a niche market that was overlooked in the last decade 03:19:26 <De_Ghosty> hey look 03:19:27 <De_Ghosty> http://img32.imageshack.us/g/dsc01562y.jpg/ 03:19:46 <Nite> true taht it stands on its own ... (almost not mentining the flawed loco) 03:20:56 <Nite> nice figures 03:21:44 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:21:58 <Nite> ej and get a littel mor positive eddi - enjoy some praise sometimes ... 03:22:22 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@CPE-58-173-248-50.szxn1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 03:22:25 <Eddi|zuHause> "not being yelled at is praise enough" 03:23:30 <Nite> so you are clearly involved with the developement of ottd? 03:23:47 <Eddi|zuHause> in angloamerican context, "praise" is just a euphemism for "random noise to ease, when you actually want to say something bad" 03:24:08 <Eddi|zuHause> only marginally 03:24:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i have provided a patch here and there 03:24:23 <Nite> as a pessimist point of view, that might be true ... 03:24:33 *** woldemar [~osaka@213.178.34.57] has joined #openttd 03:25:06 <Nite> ok so i unprise all the patches you have done to show how much i like them ;) 03:26:41 <Eddi|zuHause> and i'm not actually a pessimist... more a pragmatist that tries to reduce things to the relevant bit 03:27:45 <Eddi|zuHause> which is why i get so annoyed quickly at people who use so many words to say few things, or repeat themselves often 03:27:49 <Nite> so it was relevant to clear out your disaffection to praise 03:27:56 <Nite> i geuss 03:28:25 <Eddi|zuHause> "praise" is just one level below "spam" 03:28:46 <Nite> well .. ahem .. you use quit alot words in your reactions 03:28:47 <Eddi|zuHause> in information/noise ratio 03:29:52 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but each word is carefully crafted to carry a lot of content 03:30:46 <Eddi|zuHause> plus, if i exaggerate that, people tend to not understand me anymore 03:31:32 <Eddi|zuHause> so i have learned to cater to their need of noise 03:32:07 <Nite> and this channel seems to be a good place sometimes to get your dose of beeing misunderstood. ;) 03:33:25 <Pikka> Eddi|zuHause: it's possible that the "noise" contains meaning which you fail to decypher? :) 03:33:59 <Nite> the question of "meaning" is a hard one ... 03:34:14 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the "noise" contains information that is trivial to me and gets filtered out, but other people need that noise to follow the argumentation 03:35:20 <Nite> what you call noise might sometimes be information you simly cant decode and further recieve. 03:35:38 <Eddi|zuHause> my problem is that i always think two steps ahead of everyone else, so if i directly channeled my thoughts into words, everyone misses two steps of the argument 03:36:28 <Nite> you mean you think faster tahn you can talk/type (?) 03:37:00 <Nite> what a genius u are - ups sry a praise that was ... 03:37:02 <Eddi|zuHause> no. well, yes, but that's not what i mean 03:37:43 <Nite> in the end we all mean 42 03:42:15 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:46:00 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-19-44.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:55:54 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8df9f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:02:38 *** Nite [5472b1fc@webchat.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 04:10:49 *** DanMacK [~here@65.94.201.53] has joined #openttd 04:12:26 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-196-180-154.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:13:07 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.159] has joined #openttd 04:14:29 *** De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-172-201.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 04:16:04 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:5df7:40bf:4367:5b53] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:26:55 *** DanMacK [~here@65.94.201.53] has quit [] 04:28:53 *** OTTDNoob [626f01c4@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 04:30:58 <OTTDNoob> Hey guys I have my printing works making goods but where do I send them for cash? I checked wiki and it said send it to town so I set up some truckstops in a near by town and have goods vehicles taking them there but Im not getting anything 04:32:15 <OTTDNoob> Anyone here? 04:32:41 <OTTDNoob> Help a noob? 04:32:50 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 04:35:53 <OTTDNoob> Anyone here? 04:39:41 <OTTDNoob> Someone want to help me quick 04:39:41 <Pikka> OTTDNoob: the station at the town needs to accept goods 04:39:59 <OTTDNoob> they are getting to the station but just sitting there 04:40:05 <Pikka> generally only larger buildings accept goods, you can use the ? button to check what a building accepts 04:40:36 <OTTDNoob> hmm alright...could I have picked a town to small for the goods then? 04:40:44 <De_Ghosty> click on the station 04:40:50 <De_Ghosty> it should say what it accepts 04:40:57 <De_Ghosty> at the bottom of the info 04:41:24 <Pikka> yes, you'll need to find a bigger town, or wait until the town grows before you can deliver goods. 04:41:33 <OTTDNoob> ok...and if it doesnt accept goods can I "refit" it like I can the boats? 04:42:15 <OTTDNoob> Alright thanks 04:42:44 <De_Ghosty> yes 04:42:46 <De_Ghosty> you can 04:42:49 <Pikka> can you refit a town? 04:42:49 <De_Ghosty> sent it to station 04:42:55 <De_Ghosty> i mean depot 04:43:06 <De_Ghosty> if he can refit boat he can refit bus? 04:43:13 <Pikka> no 04:43:23 <OTTDNoob> I think Pikka got it...the town is to small 04:43:42 <OTTDNoob> Thanks guys Im going back to my new addiciton =P 04:43:44 <Pikka> with the default vehicles only planes and ships can be refitted, afaia... 04:43:46 <Pikka> have fun :) 04:43:54 <De_Ghosty> load a ottdcoop game 04:43:57 <De_Ghosty> and be amazed 04:44:03 <De_Ghosty> and more addicted 04:44:10 <OTTDNoob> what is coop? 04:45:31 <De_Ghosty> it's where alot of us come together and build these gigantic things which would take eons 04:45:32 <De_Ghosty> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/PublicServer:Archive 04:45:42 <De_Ghosty> and you learn alot of good building styles 04:46:15 <Pikka> or about openttd coop building styles, which is not necessarily the same thing ;) 04:46:44 <De_Ghosty> playing 2 game of it is better then playing 100 of normal things 04:47:04 <OTTDNoob> Its multiplayer? 04:47:22 <De_Ghosty> ottd is mutiplayer don't u need the internet button when u start? 04:47:41 <OTTDNoob> My bad i mean is the coop thing a multiplayer thing 04:47:53 <De_Ghosty> yea 04:48:27 <OTTDNoob> Im using the newest version 1.00 or w/e it is and most multiplayer games are using .75 so I havent got on there yet 04:48:42 *** Nite [5472b1fc@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 04:49:55 <OTTDNoob> Thanks for the help again I'll check out the coop after I play a bit more 04:49:59 *** OTTDNoob [626f01c4@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 04:58:05 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 04:59:07 *** lolman [~Holygoat@cust247-dsl93-89-128.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:11:49 <Nite> any quick way of resetting ottd to default options? 05:11:50 *** OTTDNoob [626f01c4@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 05:12:08 <FauxFaux> Delete the cfg. ¬_¬ 05:12:21 <Nite> thx 05:14:25 <OTTDNoob> Is it possible to get semi intelligent ai? I've downloaded the online content but they all go bankrupt and ask me to buy them out for 05:23:38 *** OTTDNoob [626f01c4@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 05:30:16 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 06:42:18 *** De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-172-201.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:46:37 *** ChoHag [~mking@109-170-148-202.xdsl.murphx.net] has joined #openttd 06:50:21 *** Nite [5472b1fc@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 06:55:07 *** OTTDnoob [626f01c4@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 06:55:48 *** OTTDnoob [626f01c4@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [] 07:16:22 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@215.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 07:18:52 <Terkhen> good morning 07:31:39 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:55:25 <Pikka> good morning 07:55:54 <Yexo> morning 07:56:02 <andythenorth> morning 07:57:07 <Pikka> snap 07:58:08 <Pikka> articulated ships! 07:58:11 <Pikka> articulated aircraft! 07:58:19 <Pikka> articulated town buildings! 07:58:29 <Pikka> articulated new cargos! 07:58:34 <Noldo> stations? 07:58:36 <andythenorth> Pikka: you score 1 out of 4 07:58:44 <andythenorth> try again 07:58:51 <Pikka> what's wrong with articulated aircraft? 07:59:03 <Pikka> could make combis :) 07:59:07 <andythenorth> http://www.photographersdirect.com/buyers/stockphoto.asp?imageid=1938393 07:59:19 <Pikka> or that :) 07:59:28 <andythenorth> revised score: 2 out of 4 08:00:00 <andythenorth> meanwhile....Yexo, would you mind if I posted your industry window patch to the development forum? 08:00:38 <Yexo> andythenorth: go ahead 08:00:48 <Yexo> as long as it's clear that it won't go in trunk in this form 08:01:30 <andythenorth> Yup. It's more for discussion 08:01:39 <andythenorth> "Boom" another power 08:01:43 <andythenorth> station just closed 08:02:42 <andythenorth> Pikka: seen this? http://tt-foundry.com/misc/power_station_madness.png 08:03:01 <andythenorth> You'd be looking at the debug output in the industry window 08:03:08 <andythenorth> Handy patch 08:03:18 <Pikka> how rare 08:04:20 * andythenorth time for tea 08:11:58 <andythenorth> Yexo: how much work is involved in adding a new window to the game? 08:12:12 <Yexo> depends on the window 08:12:18 <Yexo> a simple one: not much work 08:12:43 *** heffer [~felix@mue-88-130-87-005.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined #openttd 08:12:55 <andythenorth> It would be a debug / inspect menu, appearance is not the most important factor. 08:13:02 <Yexo> all the work around (making sure it's closed when it needs to be closed, refreshed when it needs to be etc) is more work 08:15:12 *** TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:15:30 <andythenorth> I am going to do a small design proposal for how 'inspect' could work.... 08:15:53 <andythenorth> I think it would be better as a separate window. 08:16:03 <Yexo> I agree it should be a seperate window 08:17:03 <andythenorth> is it a major hassle to have a GUI button that only appears if a certain config option is enabled? 08:17:12 <Yexo> not really 08:18:38 * andythenorth goes draws something 08:31:30 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 08:37:21 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 08:37:28 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:39:43 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 08:59:34 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@119.11.17.47] has joined #openttd 09:01:24 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:03:31 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 09:05:12 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:08:41 *** DJNekkid [~thomas@static128-249.adsl.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:10:34 <andythenorth> Yexo: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/inspect_in_place_1.png 09:10:45 <andythenorth> see the little 'bug' icon? 09:11:00 <andythenorth> I am thinking something like that brings up a simple menu with minimal styling 09:11:35 <Yexo> why for towns? 09:12:41 <andythenorth> hmm 09:12:43 <andythenorth> good question 09:12:56 <andythenorth> Think I intended that to be stations. 09:13:06 * andythenorth more sleep would lead to less fail :o 09:15:02 <andythenorth> what is 'variety distribution' in the world gen screen? 09:15:07 <andythenorth> 'tis new to me 09:19:39 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B399.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:21:34 <Terkhen> http://wiki.openttd.org/Variety_distribution 09:23:05 <andythenorth> cool 09:24:12 * andythenorth wonders if the world gen gui could use a small amount of love... 09:24:36 *** ecke_ [~ecke@pc126-119.upce.cz] has joined #openttd 09:30:28 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc19fb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:31:59 *** JVassie_ [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:32:34 <peter1138> lol 09:32:39 <peter1138> more "realistic" 09:34:38 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:35:27 *** DJNekkid [~thomas@static128-249.adsl.no] has joined #openttd 09:36:54 <Pikka> hmm 09:36:59 <Pikka> interesting coastline effect D: 09:37:37 *** ecke_ [~ecke@pc126-119.upce.cz] has quit [Quit: ecke_] 09:37:41 <Pikka> but I do like the flat areas and mountains :o 09:38:51 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:38:53 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 09:40:10 <andythenorth> hmm 09:40:22 <andythenorth> several bays closed off by a single land tile 09:40:34 <andythenorth> seems like that should be optimis-able? 09:40:53 <andythenorth> and that one looks just like san francisco :o 09:41:15 <Pikka> I get spiky coastlines on mountainous/low/rough/medium :D 09:41:39 <peter1138> heh 09:42:10 <peter1138> there are ways to tweak it to produce large water masses 09:42:18 <peter1138> (source code editing, mind you) 09:43:06 <Pikka> http://www.pruplethingz.com/junk/Image1.png 09:44:53 * Pikka toddles off to make dinner 09:46:53 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:49:07 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r19463 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: add helper function to determine if an airport has at least one hangar 09:50:10 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 09:51:43 <peter1138> moonscape, eh? 09:51:54 <andythenorth> tee hee 09:55:17 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:56:45 <andythenorth> Yexo: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/inspect_in_place_2.png 09:56:58 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.159] has joined #openttd 09:57:20 <Yexo> andythenorth: you already got code for that or is it just a mockup? 09:57:25 <andythenorth> mockup 09:57:30 <andythenorth> way beyond my skills right now 09:58:28 <andythenorth> hmm 09:58:36 <andythenorth> it should be pinnable. Is pinning a big hassle? 09:58:57 <Yexo> pinning is easy 10:04:47 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@119.11.17.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:12:51 <fonsinchen> shouldn't STR_TOOLBAR_RAILTYPE_VELOCITY be near the other toolbar strings in english.txt? 10:14:17 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:21:18 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-19-44.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 10:32:56 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r19464 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: move GetHangarTile to Airport 10:44:01 <Pikka> peter1138: indeed :) 10:50:26 *** thingwath [~thingwath@r2ap92.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 11:01:32 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.17.249.21] has joined #openttd 11:14:38 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 11:18:18 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r19465 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: support for multi-tile hangars 11:20:33 <dih> yumm? 11:20:36 * dih nibbles 11:20:52 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc19fb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:24:06 *** woldemar [~osaka@213.178.34.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:37:42 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@119.11.13.107] has joined #openttd 11:40:42 *** heffer [~felix@mue-88-130-87-005.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:42:22 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc19fb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:52:21 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc19fb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:53:35 <peter1138> E: main.c: Failed to create '/tmp/pulse-petern': Permission denied 11:53:36 <peter1138> E: main.c: Failed to create '/tmp/pulse-petern': Permission denied 11:53:37 <peter1138> hrrrm 12:00:20 *** Tennel [~Tennel@pD95294A4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:02:24 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@host133-16.student.udel.edu] has joined #openttd 12:17:53 <peter1138> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=574111 ... i see 12:20:36 <Rubidium> yeah, that definitely solved the insecure temporary file creation 12:20:52 <peter1138> *nod* 12:22:04 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:22:18 <peter1138> also why is it even suid root :s 12:22:29 *** enr1x [~kiike@77.229.85.144] has joined #openttd 12:23:22 <blathijs> Pulse isn't suid root for me? 12:23:41 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:25:01 <peter1138> is for me, in lenny 12:25:14 <thingwath> wasn't it because it wants higher priority? 12:25:38 <peter1138> no, that priority can be gained without root privileges 12:26:50 <thingwath> file capabilities? that's quite new feature, might not be available everywhere 12:26:58 <peter1138> huh? 12:28:59 <thingwath> how else can you get < 0 priority? 12:29:20 <peter1138> nice is irrelevant 12:29:30 <peter1138> rtprio is what is required 12:29:45 <peter1138> either way, both can be granted via securtiy/limits.conf 12:30:22 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@CPE-58-173-248-50.szxn1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 12:31:35 *** woldemar [~osaka@213.178.34.57] has joined #openttd 12:32:33 <thingwath> that's granted per user 12:32:54 <Noldo> then pulse can be run as pulseuser 12:35:36 *** enr1x [~kiike@77.229.85.144] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:37:02 <thingwath> that'd be solution, of course, I don't know why many distributions rather run it as the current logged in user 12:37:25 <blathijs> thingwath: Because that's how pulseaudio is designed 12:37:44 <blathijs> Each user has his own pulse daemon 12:39:06 <thingwath> of course :) but why? 12:39:33 <peter1138> thingwath, or per group 12:40:19 <Rubidium> thingwath: why does sdl + pulseaudio prefer the sdl alsa backend + virtual alsa device? 12:40:19 <blathijs> thingwath: Because that allows complete separation of users' audio, for privacy reasons 12:41:02 <blathijs> thingwath: And because that allows things like shared memory to pass audio around, passing audio data across user boundaries is either slow, or insecure I think 12:41:03 <Rubidium> if you want to know, ask the developers. Don't ask the users 12:41:06 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc19fb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:41:42 <blathijs> thingwath: There's a decent page about why "System mode" isn't recommended on the pulseaudio wiki, you should readi t 12:43:42 *** George3 [~George@212.113.107.216] has joined #openttd 12:44:58 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.159] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:46:39 <thingwath> ok :) I have pulseaudio suid too, but I don't know why, because there is this "rtkit" thing... 12:47:06 <thingwath> and file capabilities aren't even used, that's sad 12:49:02 *** woldemar [~osaka@213.178.34.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:49:51 *** George [~George@212.113.107.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:51:21 <blathijs> thingwath: Might be that the lenny version hadn't implemented that yet 12:51:35 <blathijs> upstream is at 0.9.21 already by now 12:51:49 <thingwath> no, this is fedora (and it has 0.9.21) 12:52:42 <peter1138> rtkit got flamed massively on LAD 12:53:07 <thingwath> it seems pretty ugly 12:53:17 <peter1138> yet another *kit to do something that's already possible 12:54:14 <thingwath> that group approach allows any member of the group to run anything in rt prio, that's not very nice... 12:54:52 <peter1138> don't add users you don't trust... 12:57:39 <thingwath> I can trust users, but not every bit of code that they might run :) 12:59:03 <Ammler> http://mz.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/newgrf.php?i=31:40 <-- when do you get this color news? 13:03:06 *** IPG [~chatzilla@daisu.martos.bme.hu] has joined #openttd 13:05:05 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:893e:d727:4be:f804] has joined #openttd 13:05:08 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:12:47 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 13:14:08 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [] 13:15:47 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 13:20:49 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@CPE-58-173-248-50.szxn1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:23:43 *** woldemar [~osaka@213.178.34.57] has joined #openttd 13:36:15 *** fjb is now known as Guest1545 13:36:17 *** fjb [~frank@p5485C741.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:37:05 <dih> YAY - php and apache segfaults on our test and qa servers :-) 13:40:31 <SpComb^> rewrite in Python 13:40:45 <dih> yeah - er - no 13:41:09 <dih> i mean - i'd love to, but i guess my collegues would not be to happy 13:41:57 <Rubidium> ieuw... python 13:43:03 <andythenorth> Terkhen: those industry closing logs are really useful 13:43:11 *** Guest1545 [~frank@p5485DB3A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:44:48 *** goblin_ [~goblin@krlh-5f734889.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:44:49 <dih> (nearly) anything > php 13:45:03 <dih> and i think python would fit the definition of (nearly) anything 13:45:29 <andythenorth> anyone here like stats maths? 13:45:41 <andythenorth> Terkhen has given me logs of industry closure 13:46:23 <andythenorth> I need to know if statistically my nfo code produces different results to game's closure code, or if they are statistically the same 13:49:20 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8d1da.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:51:36 <andythenorth> hmm 13:52:50 <Eddi|zuHause> statistics are evil 13:53:28 <Noldo> andythenorth: sounds quite basic 13:54:15 <andythenorth> Noldo: it's just some kind of frequency plot or something. I'm not sure exactly. 13:54:18 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=41607&p=865499#p865499 13:54:49 <andythenorth> It's probably chi squared or mu or some statistical thing. I always preferred trig to stats tbh 13:56:28 <Belugas> hello all 13:57:00 <dih> hey ho Belugas 13:57:11 <Belugas> dih! 13:57:19 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.134] has joined #openttd 13:57:27 <dih> :-) 13:57:40 <dih> ! 13:57:42 *** Adambean [~AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 13:57:42 <dih> and you? 13:57:59 <Noldo> andythenorth: do you have any idea what kind of distribution the closure times follow? 13:58:36 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has joined #openttd 13:58:53 <andythenorth> Noldo: unfortunately no 13:59:15 <andythenorth> Although I would expect that for five years they are very flat, then there is a large spike 13:59:50 <andythenorth> hmmm....maybe a chart of closures per month by industry type would be enough 13:59:59 <andythenorth> then we can just look at the shape of it 14:00:14 <Pikka> peter1138 14:00:26 <Pikka> where was that sound effect list again? :P 14:01:04 * Belugas is fine, and as usually, very busy. Thanks dih 14:01:11 <Noldo> I haven't studied anything that doesn't asume normal distribution :) 14:01:13 <Belugas> Pikka! 14:01:16 <Belugas> andythenorth! 14:01:18 <Pikka> Belugas! 14:01:21 <Belugas> Noldo! 14:01:22 <TrueBrain> Belugas: stop being busy 14:01:23 <Terkhen> andythenorth: you are welcome :) 14:01:24 <TrueBrain> we need you 14:01:30 <Noldo> Belugas o/ 14:01:41 <Belugas> as do my boss and as do my wife, TrueBrain 14:01:47 <TrueBrain> fair point 14:01:51 <Noldo> what about the kids? 14:01:52 <Belugas> sadly... 14:01:58 <andythenorth> there are more wives! There is only one game 14:02:20 <Belugas> just one kid, enough to grab the last remaining free time ;) 14:02:35 <andythenorth> ah. I now know about those small people 14:03:42 *** Jupix [~jupix@dsl-lprbrasgw1-fee4df00-82.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:04:31 <andythenorth> closure protection for secondary industries (currently five years). 10 sound better, or 15? 25 is as high as I am prepared to go. 14:04:50 <Pikka> 10 sounds good 14:05:12 <andythenorth> hmmm....does nfo get to know the map size? 14:05:57 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: a1270] 14:07:18 <Hirundo> yes 14:07:58 <Pikka> good question, and good answer! 14:08:16 <Pikka> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ReadingPatchVariables variable 13 :) 14:11:33 *** Pikka is now known as Pikka|afk 14:13:31 <andythenorth> hmm 14:13:34 <andythenorth> how useful 14:14:34 <andythenorth> grf authors could do some naughty things with that list 14:14:54 <andythenorth> plane speed factor = 0.25? Multiply all plane speeds by 4! 14:14:58 <andythenorth> mwah hahah etc 14:15:10 <andythenorth> of course, only badly behaved grf authors would think of doing that 14:16:32 *** davis [~b@p5B28B79D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:20:43 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:22:03 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 14:30:03 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db19107.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:32:48 *** Maarten- [~dutchusa@cpe-67-49-76-8.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:33:35 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 14:37:17 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc19fb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:41:48 <Pikka|afk> andy: I use it to change running costs, but not speeds. :) 14:41:54 *** Pikka|afk is now known as Pikka 14:45:24 <andythenorth> slowing industry closure rates on a huge map might be worthwhile 14:45:33 <andythenorth> but I don't fancy tackling that maths today :) 14:45:39 <andythenorth> or this month even 14:46:26 <andythenorth> so 10 years closure protection, then, if my code's working correctly, industries start going "BOOM" 14:46:57 <andythenorth> and depending on the randomisation, an industry might take up to about 25 years to go "BOOM" 14:47:31 * andythenorth serving suggestion only. contents may vary from the illustration on the packet 14:49:11 <Jolteon> I hope the 'boom' isn't literal. 14:49:35 <Jolteon> Although, it may be fun to watch an Industry get deconstructed when it dies. 14:49:41 <Jolteon> as some eye candy. 14:49:48 <Jolteon> (Basically the reverse of it being built) 14:49:54 <Jolteon> If one can play that animation backwards? 14:50:10 <Jolteon> Sequence, not animation. 14:50:17 <andythenorth> Jolteon: think that was discussed some where 14:50:26 <Jolteon> Oh :o 14:50:39 <andythenorth> possibly as a reason why we can't have animated tiles around industries (other than fields) meh 14:50:46 * andythenorth grumps 14:51:11 <Jolteon> I'd never heard about the no anim tiles around them :o 14:52:04 <andythenorth> Jolteon: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=42440 14:52:38 <andythenorth> hmm 14:52:54 * andythenorth considers showing players 'high' or 'low' chance of closuer 14:52:57 <andythenorth> closure /s 14:53:16 <andythenorth> nah screw it. let them live in fear :P 14:53:56 <Jolteon> Add it as a toggleable thing? 14:54:00 <andythenorth> no 14:54:02 <Jolteon> So people can chose to live in fear, or knowledge? 14:54:05 <andythenorth> no 14:54:13 * andythenorth *hates* too many options 14:54:28 <andythenorth> however there *will* be a 'never close' option 14:54:40 <andythenorth> that will be bundled with some other options under 'easy' or 'sandbox' FIRS 14:54:46 <dih> TrueBrain: the api available behind the translator.... was there an api for bananas too? 14:55:09 <Jolteon> Only thing that currently annoys me is building a nice network 14:55:12 <Jolteon> then at the end of it all 14:55:13 <dih> on second thought, forget it 14:55:16 <Jolteon> the freaking industry closes. 14:55:36 <Jolteon> It'd be nice if it was possible for an industry to detect activity near it, so if it looks like it will be connected in the near future, it stays open an extra month or tow. 14:55:44 <Jolteon> two* 14:57:04 <TrueBrain> dih: nope 14:57:11 <TrueBrain> well, the protocols OpenTTD uses :p 14:57:41 <dih> i was thinking along the line of querying bananas for new grf names ^^ 14:57:52 <dih> but then not every new grf is on bananas 14:58:01 <dih> thus i might just store results in a memcache server ^^ 14:58:10 <andythenorth> Jolteon: that annoys everyone it seems. I can't fix it the way you describe though. Not easily anyway. And if I started detecting stations or whatever....hmmm it's just a headache. 14:58:45 <Jolteon> Is there actually any way for an industry to even detect a station being built near it? (or just detect a newly built piece of track near it) 14:58:56 <andythenorth> query nearby tiles often. 14:58:58 <Rubidium> dih: the 'updater' knows way more NewGRFs 14:59:12 <Jolteon> andythenorth: Wouldn't that be CPU intensive if all the industries had to do that? 14:59:23 <andythenorth> Jolteon: do it once a month, should be ok 14:59:28 <Jolteon> ah, okay. 14:59:29 <andythenorth> but it's baroque. 14:59:30 <dih> Rubidium: do tell me about the 'updater' :-) 14:59:37 <dih> can i query it? 14:59:41 <Rubidium> no 14:59:44 <dih> :-) 15:00:04 <Rubidium> it's the part of the masterserver that queries game servers for their data/whether they are still online 15:00:04 <Jolteon> Also about the switch that disables tree growth 15:00:06 <dih> would you allow me to query it if i turned OpenTTDLib into a webservice? 15:00:13 <Jolteon> Does that also disable trees growing around the sawmill in tropical? 15:00:30 <andythenorth> do trees grow around the sawmill? 15:00:35 <Rubidium> Jolteon: depending on the actual setting of that switch: yes 15:00:40 <Jolteon> drat. 15:00:40 <andythenorth> I thought players had to plant the damn things 15:00:44 <Rubidium> andythenorth: s/sawmill/lumber mill/ 15:00:53 <peter1138> depends where the lumber mill is placed 15:00:59 <Jolteon> Is there any way to add an exception to it, so it is safe to play tropical with it off, but not affect industry? 15:01:01 <andythenorth> I hate the fricking sawmill 15:01:03 <andythenorth> lumber mill 15:01:04 <Rubidium> peter1138: yeah, that too 15:01:06 <andythenorth> whatever 15:01:21 <Jolteon> I can't stand tree growth, but i'd forget to manually place trees around the lumber yard. 15:01:32 <Jolteon> I don't spose that'd ever be 'fixed' as such? 15:01:43 <Jolteon> As technically, it is doing exactly what the setting is meant to 15:01:45 <Rubidium> Jolteon: yes, but adding that exception makes the tile loop computational much more complex 15:01:45 <dih> Rubidium: or would you prefer me keeping track myself? 15:01:56 <Jolteon> Rubidium: oh. 15:02:05 <Jolteon> I guess that'd be bad for overall efficiency 15:02:10 <Jolteon> thus, not really plausible to put in. 15:02:25 <Rubidium> yes, but as I said: you can enable tree growth only in rainforest areas 15:02:38 <Jolteon> really? :Lo 15:02:39 <Rubidium> i.e. the whole map except rainforest has no trees 15:02:47 * Jolteon launches openttd and carefully looks through the settings. 15:04:22 <Jolteon> If when creating the map, the tree algorithm is Non, would trees naturally spawn as the game progresses? (Presuming rainforest only was on) 15:04:43 <Rubidium> yes 15:04:48 <Rubidium> quite quickly actually 15:05:06 <Jolteon> ah, thats okay. 15:06:31 <andythenorth> Jolteon: would something like this help you make decisions about network building? 15:06:32 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/power_station_comp.png/ 15:06:57 <andythenorth> it's intended to help, but not supposed to give 100% of the answer. 15:07:31 <Jolteon> It'd be better if it was less vague, and more helpful. 15:08:21 <andythenorth> Jolteon: the future is uncertain grasshopper 15:08:31 <andythenorth> How I can be certain what the random bits are going to be? 15:08:50 <Jolteon> make the random less random? :p 15:09:12 <andythenorth> Jolteon: yes, well I could 15:09:18 <Hirundo> http://xkcd.com/221/ <- like this, I presume 15:09:20 <Rubidium> andythenorth: 'and' it with 0 or 'or' it with -1 15:09:41 <andythenorth> so then all unserviced power stations would close five years after game start 15:09:43 <Jolteon> That reminds me, Hirundo. 15:09:45 <andythenorth> fun isn't it :| 15:09:50 <Jolteon> Theres no such thing as a 'fair' random in coding, is there? 15:09:57 <Jolteon> Apparantly it's always slightly biased, or something. 15:10:09 * Jolteon read that somewhere, forgot where though. 15:10:13 <andythenorth> it's ok, the human sense of random is utterly biased anyway 15:10:26 <Jolteon> true. 15:10:31 <Jolteon> I always go "hmm.. let me think" 15:10:35 <andythenorth> and to complicate matters, math random expects some kind of even distribution....but... 15:10:35 <Jolteon> and I nearly always say 3 and 7. 15:10:57 <andythenorth> lots of complex systems aren't even, they seem to fit better to power laws 15:11:24 <andythenorth> jolten: do some maths 15:11:26 <andythenorth> any maths 15:11:55 <andythenorth> Jolteon: 3+11? 15:12:02 <Rubidium> andythenorth: 20 15:12:10 <andythenorth> 20 - 2? 15:12:10 <Jolteon> er 15:12:11 <Jolteon> 14 15:12:14 <Jolteon> 18 15:12:19 <davis> :D 15:12:20 <andythenorth> name a vegetable... 15:12:23 <Rubidium> andythenorth: 10 15:12:24 <Jolteon> Carrot 15:12:26 <andythenorth> done 15:12:36 <andythenorth> most english speaking people do the same thing 15:12:40 <Jolteon> I was going to say a tomato 15:12:43 <Jolteon> but no one is quite sure what they are. 15:12:49 <andythenorth> it's a true urban myth 15:12:53 * andythenorth back to the nfo 15:12:54 <Rubidium> oh, egg plant! :) 15:14:46 <andythenorth> hmm. the maths->carrot thing might be bollocks 15:14:46 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prototype_theory 15:15:12 <Jolteon> ...what 15:15:16 <Jolteon> I was /meant/ to say carrot? 15:15:27 <andythenorth> most people do 15:15:31 <andythenorth> allegedly 15:15:46 <Rubidium> andythenorth: where's the proof for that? 15:15:57 <andythenorth> urban myth 15:16:06 <Jolteon> andythenorth: Surely people say what they are exposed to the most. 15:16:26 <Jolteon> In my case it's (unfortunatly) carrots. 15:16:26 <andythenorth> Jolteon: that appears to be what cognitive science thinks too 15:16:36 <Jolteon> I mean, I wouldn't say what a Nigerian woman would sauy. 15:16:43 <Jolteon> She'd probably just reply with "..a what" 15:16:45 <andythenorth> Would we like to see construction date in the industry window? 15:17:20 <Rubidium> andythenorth: but if it's urban myth, someone must have written about it 15:17:32 <andythenorth> Rubidium: http://www.philosophychatforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=124&t=14446&start=0 15:17:53 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@CPE-58-173-248-50.szxn1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 15:17:56 <andythenorth> oh balls 15:18:02 <andythenorth> I was writing him a question 15:18:08 <dih> src/smallmap_gui.cpp: In member function âvoid SmallMapWindow::SetZoomLevel(SmallMapWindow::ZoomLevelChange, const Point*)â: 15:18:11 <dih> src/smallmap_gui.cpp:641: warning: âtile$yâ may be used uninitialized in this function 15:18:14 <dih> src/smallmap_gui.cpp:641: warning: âtile$xâ may be used uninitialized in this function 15:18:38 <Rubidium> dih: don't use Apple's compiler... it gives false warnings! 15:18:47 <dih> i am not 15:19:01 <dih> Target: i486-linux-gnu 15:19:01 <dih> Configured with: ../src/configure -v --enable-languages=c,c++,fortran,objc,obj-c++,treelang --prefix=/usr --enable-shared --with-system-zlib --libexecdir=/usr/lib --without-included-gettext --enable-threads=posix --enable-nls --program-suffix=-4.1 --enable-__cxa_atexit --enable-clocale=gnu --enable-libstdcxx-debug --enable-mpfr --with-tune=i686 --enable-checking=release i486-linux-gnu 15:19:07 <dih> Thread model: posix 15:19:09 <dih> gcc version 4.1.2 20061115 (prerelease) (Debian 4.1.1-21) 15:19:31 <peter1138> --enable-as-many-options-as-possible? 15:19:41 <Jolteon> lol 15:19:44 <dih> ^^ 15:19:57 <TrueBrain> a i486 compiler, tuned for i686 15:19:58 <andythenorth> @seen FooBar 15:19:58 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: I have not seen FooBar. 15:19:59 <TrueBrain> sensible ... 15:20:25 <Rubidium> dih: read the readme; it says 4.1 gives bogus compiler warnings! :) 15:22:37 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 15:23:02 * dih hides 15:25:51 *** Jupix [~jupix@dsl-lprbrasgw1-fee4df00-82.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 15:27:35 *** llugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c947.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:30:07 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8d1da.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:30:25 *** Xaroth_ [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has joined #openttd 15:34:04 *** zachanima [~zach@90.185.77.237] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:34:07 *** zachanima [~zach@90.185.77.237] has joined #openttd 15:34:11 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc19fb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:35:47 *** zachanima [~zach@90.185.77.237] has quit [] 15:35:50 *** zachanima [~zach@90.185.77.237] has joined #openttd 15:36:10 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:37:41 *** zachanima [~zach@90.185.77.237] has quit [] 15:37:55 *** zachanima [~zach@90.185.77.237] has joined #openttd 15:40:31 *** zachanima [~zach@90.185.77.237] has quit [] 15:40:34 *** zachanima [~zach@90.185.77.237] has joined #openttd 15:48:25 *** Xaroth_ [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:02:32 *** davis_ [~b@p5B28B79D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:02:37 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@f234099.upc-f.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:04:11 *** jpx_ [jpx_@e83-245-150-15.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:04:54 <andythenorth> meh 16:05:27 *** davis [~b@p5B28B79D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:05:34 *** davis_ is now known as davis 16:06:43 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:07:21 <andythenorth> oh fuckadoodle, excuse my swearing 16:08:13 <davis> you are excused 16:08:51 *** Splex [~splex@n219079142042.netvigator.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:09:07 * andythenorth reverts to stop the game blowing up really unhelpfully 16:09:27 *** jpx_ [jpx_@e83-245-150-15.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 16:13:15 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc19fb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:16:57 *** Splex [~splex@n219079142042.netvigator.com] has joined #openttd 16:17:10 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8839.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:18:26 <Fast2> Hello 16:20:41 <Wizzleby> does OpenMSX have an earliest version of openttd supported? 16:22:51 <blathijs> Wizzleby: I think it needs 1.0 16:23:17 <Wizzleby> blathijs: ok, thanks 16:23:21 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:23:31 <blathijs> Wizzleby: But you can probably get away with earlier versions if you rename the midi files like the original ones 16:24:13 * Wizzleby nods, "Mostly I'm just interested in making sure that when I've packaged it, it has sane dependencies listed" 16:24:40 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-mlimmlgw1-ff1ec000-127.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 16:25:40 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn14-2-0-cust562.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:25:43 * andythenorth ponders 16:26:24 <andythenorth> consistency versus variety: which do we prefer? 16:29:42 <Rubidium> both! 16:30:12 <andythenorth> yup 16:30:14 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2D9939.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:30:34 <andythenorth> Oblique Strategies: "A line has two sides" 16:35:34 <blathijs> Wizzleby: Packaged for what? 16:35:47 <Rubidium> blathijs: gentoo? 16:36:45 <Wizzleby> Aye, gentoo 16:37:18 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:38:40 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.159] has joined #openttd 16:43:10 *** woldemar [~osaka@213.178.34.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:50:57 *** goblin_ [~goblin@krlh-5f734889.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:51:55 *** woldemar [~osaka@213.178.34.57] has joined #openttd 16:53:40 *** DJNekkid [~thomas@static128-249.adsl.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:53:55 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has joined #openttd 16:58:17 *** JVassie_ [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:58:43 *** JVassie_ [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:59:37 *** DJNekkid [~thomas@static128-249.adsl.no] has joined #openttd 17:12:44 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@235.81.200-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd 17:19:46 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:20:04 *** TT1a1a1 [~mIRC@5ad5d39f.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 17:20:48 <TT1a1a1> guys, ive got a tiny bus station in the middle of a city that i really want to extend by the local authority are refusing to let me remove part of the road 17:20:52 <TT1a1a1> is there a workaround? 17:21:04 <TT1a1a1> rating is outstanding 17:23:09 <Rubidium> 1) build a drive through bus stop? 17:23:44 <Rubidium> 2) open the cheat window and enable the magic bulldozer (but remember to disable it again because if enabled everything gets the magic bulldozer, i.e. towns removing industries and such) 17:26:14 *** MeCooL [mecool@94.128.91.45] has joined #openttd 17:29:47 *** davis [~b@p5B28B79D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:30:03 *** davis [~b@p5B28BBE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:34:13 *** James [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:34:15 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc19fb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:34:51 *** James is now known as Guest1566 17:35:34 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f5e3a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:38:29 <TT1a1a1> thanks 17:40:20 *** JVassie_ [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:40:50 *** woldemar [~osaka@213.178.34.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:43:31 *** heffer [~felix@ip-88-152-182-156.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 17:43:47 <Belugas> 3) plant an awfull lot of tres in the city 17:44:11 <Alberth> and around it :) 17:44:26 *** woldemar [~osaka@213.178.34.57] has joined #openttd 17:45:46 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:46:33 <andythenorth> hi hi industry fans 17:46:37 <Rubidium> Belugas: if your rating is outstanding planting trees doesn't help 17:47:20 <Belugas> ho... shoo... right... 17:47:33 <Belugas> TrueBrain, yuo were soooooo right..... look at me now.... 17:47:48 <andythenorth> Brewery: 1 grain = 1 output; 1 fruit = 1 output; 1 grain & 1 fruit = 2 output? 17:48:00 <andythenorth> alternatively 1 grain & 1 fruit = 3 output or 4 output 17:48:28 <andythenorth> the maths is a bit off - my point is, these cargos shouldn't combine in any way to make 'more'? 17:49:11 <TrueBrain> Belugas: and this is only the start ;) 17:49:13 <TrueBrain> it will get worse :) 17:49:29 <Belugas> hehehe 17:52:50 *** Guest1566 [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:55:01 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-252-196.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 17:56:59 *** goblin_ [~goblin@krlh-5f734889.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:57:57 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:00:42 *** aber [~Adium@p5B325EEF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:01:46 *** DJ_Nekkid [~thomas@static128-249.adsl.no] has joined #openttd 18:04:25 *** DJNekkid [~thomas@static128-249.adsl.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:05:39 *** goblin_ [~goblin@krlh-5f734889.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:20 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:10:40 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8839.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:12:00 *** woldemar [~osaka@213.178.34.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:15:47 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:21:22 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@nas46-122.york.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 18:22:06 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host33-238-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:22:39 <Wolf01> hello :D 18:23:01 *** TT1a1a1 [~mIRC@5ad5d39f.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: He who asks a question may be a fool for five minutes, but he who never asks a question remains a fool forever] 18:25:54 <blathijs> And he who asks a question and then quits from IRC within five minutes is just an idiot 18:27:05 <Terkhen> until the next question :) 18:27:38 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-220-139-245.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 18:27:40 <Rubidium> s/within five minutes/before someone typed the answer/ 18:29:35 *** ptr [~peter@90-227-166-229-no72.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 18:33:41 * andythenorth five is the answer 18:33:48 <andythenorth> but to an entirely different question 18:33:58 <andythenorth> spooky 18:34:58 *** Maarten [~dutchusa@cpe-67-49-76-8.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 18:36:45 *** aber [~Adium@p5B325EEF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:37:53 <Rubidium> dih: http://rbijker.net/openttd/newgrfs.csv 18:38:29 <dih> sweet :-) 18:38:42 <dih> thank you :-) 18:40:11 <dih> that is awesome :-) 18:41:38 *** heffer [~felix@ip-88-152-182-156.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: heffer] 18:45:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r19466 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed) 18:45:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: czech - 1 changes by TheLamer 18:45:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: greek - 4 changes by 18:45:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 3 changes by kiphemyst 18:45:50 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 3 changes by mantaray 18:45:50 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: norwegian_nynorsk - 3 changes by mantaray 18:46:01 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 18:46:41 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-19-44.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:49:17 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:50:39 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 18:51:02 <OwenS> Rubidium: Everything gets magic bulldozer? Wow, that explains a lot 18:54:42 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc19fb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:55:16 <OwenS> This will explain why I've had a city tear down a neighbour's skyscrapers to build small houses... 19:00:15 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:32 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@nas46-122.york.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:00:36 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 19:00:56 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@nas46-122.york.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 19:01:38 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@host133-16.student.udel.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:01:40 <OwenS> Why does clearing some train track make money, but clearing some road cost money? 19:03:03 <Rubidium> cause steel has resell value? 19:04:03 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@host133-16.student.udel.edu] has joined #openttd 19:06:21 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@host133-16.student.udel.edu] has quit [] 19:06:32 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@host133-16.student.udel.edu] has joined #openttd 19:07:17 <OwenS> Rubidium: That's greater than the cost of restoring the land? 19:07:43 <Rubidium> yes 19:07:46 <FauxFaux> You don't replace the land, it's left blank and returns to grass naturally. 19:08:19 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:08:38 <OwenS> FauxFaux: I'd say digging out Monorail supports is quite expensive ;-) 19:09:19 <OwenS> /Maglev/Transrapid 19:09:25 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.159] has joined #openttd 19:11:47 *** kkb1101 [~kkb110@host133-16.student.udel.edu] has joined #openttd 19:11:55 <andythenorth> OwenS: http://www.trainweb.org/mccloudrails/Miscellaneous/ScrapTrainatBartle.html 19:12:06 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@119.11.13.107] has quit [] 19:12:08 <andythenorth> http://www.trainweb.org/mccloudrails/Miscellaneous/ScrappingBritton.html 19:14:36 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@host133-16.student.udel.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:15:16 <OwenS> andythenorth: Traditional rails are just steel beams on a wooden mat, with a chipping base. Maglev supports are sunk quite deep into the ground, and are quite comple 19:15:17 <OwenS> x 19:16:15 *** davis [~b@p5B28BBE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:17:07 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> closure protection for secondary industries (currently five years). 10 sound better, or 15? 25 is as high as I am prepared to go. <-- what about depending on map size? linear: 1 year * (map_x+map_y-11)? so 1 on 64x64, 3 on 128x128, 5 on 256x256, 11 on 2048x2048? or quadratic: 1 year * (map_x-5)*(map_y-5), makes 1 on 64x64, 4 on 128x128, 8 on 256x256, 36 on 2048x2048? 19:17:39 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I think the map size would be a good refinement. 19:17:50 <andythenorth> I don't want to code it for FIRS 0.1 (plenty of other stuff to do) 19:18:05 <andythenorth> It's prop 13 here: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ReadingPatchVariables 19:18:18 <andythenorth> Looks complicated for my brain to understand :P 19:18:28 <andythenorth> but I've added it to a ticket on the FIRS tracker 19:20:36 <Eddi|zuHause> well, for the linear version you want the SS part, for the quadratic version the XY part of the variable 19:20:44 <Eddi|zuHause> then do a little bit magic on them 19:22:39 <Eddi|zuHause> they have a builtin offset, that results in the formulas: SS+1 for linear, and (X+1)*(Y+1) for quadratic 19:22:55 <Eddi|zuHause> or X*Y+SS+1 19:23:46 <andythenorth> ok so now I have charts from Roujin 19:23:46 <andythenorth> http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tIh_0PrXnPMJEOW7r2oBHWQ&gid=4 19:23:56 <andythenorth> we are looking at the Power Station 19:24:05 <andythenorth> hmmm...so what is the chart telling me? 19:25:55 <Eddi|zuHause> "Request timed out"? 19:26:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't get anything... 19:26:56 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 19:27:45 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:28:54 <Eddi|zuHause> you can modify the quadratic variant to X*Y+1, results in: 1 on 64x64, 2 on 128x128, 5 on 256x256, 26 on 2048x2048 19:29:38 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I've stuck that on the FIRS tracker as well 19:29:49 <andythenorth> I'm not going to start on it at the moment :) 19:30:27 <Noldo> :/ the spreadsheet is timeouting 19:30:35 <Eddi|zuHause> if you give me the code segment that calculates the protection period, i could try to write something up 19:31:09 <andythenorth> It would be a single varaction 2 that writes to a register 19:31:30 <andythenorth> nicely self contained :) 19:31:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but it's easier for me if i already have the writing to register part :) 19:31:45 *** chungy [~mike@2002:1816:df2f:beef:290:47ff:fe03:924a] has left #openttd [] 19:31:45 <Noldo> only the graphs are 19:32:12 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-106-84.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:34:20 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-103-148.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 19:34:23 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 19:36:24 <andythenorth> 1in 4? 19:36:24 <andythenorth> 81 18 00 03 //randomise 19:36:59 <andythenorth> nvm 19:38:37 *** fjb [~frank@p5485C741.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:38:37 *** JVassie_ [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:38:54 *** fjb [~frank@p5485C741.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:39:16 *** Lukia [~kvirc@80.214.253.89] has joined #openttd 19:39:48 *** Lukia [~kvirc@80.214.253.89] has quit [] 19:41:35 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:43:45 <__ln__> http://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/artikkeli/1135254828406 19:45:50 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:46:45 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B399.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:47:26 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B399.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:49:09 *** James [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:49:41 *** James is now known as Guest1577 19:56:16 *** JVassie_ [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:57:27 *** woldemar [~osaka@213.178.34.57] has joined #openttd 19:57:36 <andythenorth> do we like 'conflicting industry types'? 19:57:50 <andythenorth> i.e. can't build some industry types near certain other industry types? 19:57:53 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-mlimmlgw1-ff1ec000-127.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 19:58:46 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe, but how useful is that? 19:59:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean there's no reason why a steel mill can't be next to an oil refinery 20:00:05 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I don't mind running further tests, 20 years is fine? 20:00:17 <andythenorth> Terkhen: might as well :) 20:00:59 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: coal mine next to steel mill? (I am playing devil's advocate, I don't personally like 'conflicting types') 20:01:28 <Terkhen> okay 20:02:25 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: honestly, i can't see a reason for that either 20:03:03 <andythenorth> so I have one vote against 'conflicting types'. Anyone else got an opinion? :) 20:03:14 <Terkhen> I don't like conflicting types either, I can't think of a case in FIRS where it would be useful 20:03:38 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r19467 /trunk/src/misc/ (blob.hpp str.hpp): 20:03:38 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Use uint and byte direct instead of declaring internal types (skidd13) 20:03:38 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Codechange: remove now unneeded asserts 20:03:38 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Set CBlobBaseSimple as absolute base class of CBlobT 20:04:37 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r19468 /trunk/src/misc/blob.hpp: -Codechange: make ptr_u union in Blob anonymous (skidd13) 20:06:00 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r19469 /trunk/src/misc/ (blob.hpp str.hpp): -Codechange: remove unused functions from Blob (skidd13) 20:06:44 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r19470 /trunk/src/misc/ (blob.hpp dbg_helpers.cpp): -Codechange: rename blob internals (skidd13) 20:08:13 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:08:54 <PeterT> where is this skidd13? 20:08:54 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r19471 /trunk/src/misc/ (blob.hpp str.hpp): -Codechange: rename ByteBlob methods to fit common style (skidd13) 20:10:13 <Yexo> FS#3461 / irc 20:10:31 <Eddi|zuHause> afair he was a developer a while ago 20:10:45 <Yexo> correct 20:13:29 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r19472 /trunk/src/misc/blob.hpp: -Codechange: reorder the static members of ByteBlob and add Zero() (skidd13) 20:14:09 <dih> did he not once have commit rights? 20:14:18 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db19107.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: bis dann] 20:14:20 <Rubidium> no 20:15:03 <PeterT> Yexo: does he have a different alias on IRC_ 20:15:04 <Rubidium> although that answer depends on how the question is interpreted 20:15:16 <Yexo> PeterT: no 20:15:29 <dih> he used to be on irc 20:15:45 <PeterT> just FS, then 20:15:46 <dih> Rubidium, i thought i (some time back) so commits by him 20:15:52 <Yexo> PeterT: no 20:16:12 <PeterT> am I missing something? 20:16:31 <Yexo> yes, #openttd is not the only irc channel, being on irc does not mean being in #openttd 20:16:32 <dih> PeterT, always 20:17:08 <dih> and dont try to enter the "lions den" ^^ 20:18:03 <Yexo> @commit 14557 20:18:03 <DorpsGek> Yexo: Commit by skidd13 :: r14557 trunk/src/string.cpp (2008-11-02 11:41:13 UTC) 20:18:04 <DorpsGek> Yexo: -Codechange: Remove a redundant line of code 20:18:08 <Yexo> dih: ^^ 20:18:25 <dih> yes - that 20:18:29 <dih> i knew it existed 20:18:46 <Yexo> hg log -u skidd13 to get a full list 20:18:47 <Rubidium> dih: ¬E(skidd13 did commit) = false 20:19:35 <dih> ok, but he had a user, someone revised his stuff and commited for him? 20:19:54 <Yexo> dih: notice the "¬" 20:20:33 <Yexo> double negations ftw :) 20:20:41 <Rubidium> dih definitely isn't of Vulcan descent 20:22:24 <dih> vulkanette vulgaris :-D 20:24:39 <Rubidium> but temporal logic is fun... especially when it sees common linguistic constructs in the exact opposite 20:27:38 * andythenorth goes on a mission to eliminate conflicting types. This will be....ummm....we'll se 20:27:40 <andythenorth> e 20:28:41 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r19473 /trunk/src/misc/blob.hpp: -Codechange: remove unused variables in the Blob::SmartAlloc code (skidd13) 20:29:18 *** Guest1577 [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 20:30:11 *** JVassie_ [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:38:01 <Eddi|zuHause> dih: partly galapagos turtle? :) 20:38:46 <dih> ^^ 20:39:27 <dih> an can reach 400 years of age :-P 20:44:36 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r19474 /trunk/src/misc/blob.hpp: -Cleanup: remove ByteBlob::Append(T*, num_items) 20:44:36 <andythenorth> ho hum 20:45:15 <andythenorth> I'm getting the '...too close to another industry' message when trying to construct industries 20:45:29 <andythenorth> *every* FIRS industry has action 0 prop 16 set as follows 20:45:29 <andythenorth> 16 FF FF FF //conflicting industry types (3*byte; ID+80h; FF to disable) 20:48:22 <andythenorth> baffling 20:48:59 <andythenorth> hmmm 20:55:54 *** IPG [~chatzilla@daisu.martos.bme.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:56:22 *** davis [~b@p5B28BBE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:57:37 <andythenorth> "Industries of the same type can be built close to each other" appears to be broken for secondary industry. 20:57:41 <andythenorth> or I've misunderstood it 20:58:22 <Rubidium> close to eachother as in "in the same town" 20:58:52 <andythenorth> Wouldn't that be "Allow multiple similar industries per town" 20:58:53 <andythenorth> ? 20:59:47 <Rubidium> hmm, there are two settings? 21:00:00 <Rubidium> then I don't know without looking at the source 21:00:06 <Rubidium> and can't be bothered to do that right now 21:00:15 <Rubidium> dinner time (little late though) 21:00:18 <andythenorth> :) 21:00:28 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19475 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Cleanup: Remove an unneeded for when drawing detail panels. 21:04:47 <andythenorth> I haven't read the source, but I think the game prevents secondary industries being built within about 20 tiles of each other *if* they have at least one accepted cargo the same 21:17:56 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8839.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:18:00 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-254-113-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 21:18:14 <Nite_Owl> Hello all 21:18:21 *** OTTDnoob [626f01c4@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:18:43 <Yexo> andythenorth: a secondary industry cannot be build close (< 14 tiles) to another industry if both industries if the first cargotype both industry accept is the same and one of "same industry close to eachother" and "multiple industries per town" is off 21:23:59 <Eddi|zuHause> what constitutes a "secondary" industry in this case? 21:24:08 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r19476 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: simplify the 'is conflicting industry nearby' check a bit 21:24:42 *** aber [~alvin@p5B325EEF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:25:12 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: any industry that has the INDUSTRYLIFE_EXTRACTIVE or INDUSTRYLIFE_ORGANIC bits set but not the INDUSTRYBEH_CUT_TREES bit 21:26:07 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't seem to make a lot of sense... 21:26:44 <Yexo> Lumber mills are extractive/organic, but can always be built like a non-raw industry <- there is that comment in the openttd code 21:28:23 <andythenorth> oh poop 21:28:32 <andythenorth> That explains my problem then 21:28:49 <andythenorth> I have quite a lot of secondary industries with overlapping cargo acceptance 21:30:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: is the check you said there inverse? because in my world, "extractive" and "organic" industries are primary... 21:30:25 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:30:53 <andythenorth> I suppose all FIRS industries could be primary 21:31:17 <andythenorth> seems a bit weird 21:31:27 <andythenorth> but might work 21:31:57 <andythenorth> what might go wrong? 21:32:13 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: AIs misinterpreting stuff? 21:32:46 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but why bother, if simply disabling the settings helps? 21:32:56 <andythenorth> it doesn't 21:33:25 <Yexo> <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: is the check you said there inverse? because in my world, "extractive" and "organic" industries are primary... <- sorry, yes 21:33:35 <Yexo> what I said was a descriptino of primary industries 21:34:13 <Yexo> andythenorth: the settin gto build secondary industries but only fund primary industries would fail 21:34:20 <andythenorth> yup 21:34:27 <andythenorth> everything would be prospecting 21:34:49 <Yexo> and I'd expect every primary industry to produce cargo even if it doesn't get any incoming cargo 21:35:00 <Yexo> that's more important for AIs then for humans though 21:35:39 * andythenorth is a teensy bit depressed by how complicated it all is :P 21:36:15 *** JVassie_ [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:36:39 <andythenorth> is it something we could change? 21:39:01 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@235.81.200-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 21:45:54 <andythenorth> so....the problem is that (a) it's irritating to prevent secondary industries building near each other and (b) the message is unhelpful and will produce a lot of bogus bug reports 21:46:29 <andythenorth> I suppose I could us cb28 for every secondary industry and return a more helpful error text. 21:46:48 <andythenorth> I don't know if cb28 will be over-ridden by the game's built-in check though 21:47:11 <andythenorth> I could delete the secondary industries with same input cargos 21:48:01 *** Brianett1 [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:49:02 <andythenorth> I wonder what the game's distance check will do if I use cb 14B to set cargos? 21:49:18 <Belugas> pffff....enough for the week... 21:49:21 <Belugas> time to say .... 21:49:23 <Belugas> BYE! 21:49:28 <PeterT> bye Belugas! 21:49:30 <andythenorth> bye! 21:50:07 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50:19 *** Brianett1 is now known as Brianetta 21:51:16 <frosch123> 14b is only called on construction, for unconstructed industries (including ais querying industrytype information) there are only the properties 21:52:01 <andythenorth> frosch123: so would 14B run before or after CheckIfFarEnoughFromIndustry 21:52:14 <frosch123> after 21:52:34 <frosch123> 14b is run when the industry is already half placed 21:53:11 *** boekabart_away [~bart@95.211.130.13] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:53:15 <andythenorth> hmm 21:53:30 <andythenorth> CheckIfFarEnoughFromIndustry looks broken to me 21:53:52 <andythenorth> or at least, massively confusing to players 21:54:46 <frosch123> you need to use cb 28 yourself to simulate cb 14b. if you also need the random bits for it, you have to wait for http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=47328 :p 21:55:17 <andythenorth> frosch123: is it clear what I'm trying to do? 21:55:24 <andythenorth> as that answer confused me :) 21:55:58 *** OTTDnoob [626f01c4@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 21:56:04 <frosch123> i thought you want to prevent industries accepting/producing similiar cargo to appear next to each other 21:56:28 <andythenorth> no, the inverse :) 21:56:37 <andythenorth> the game already prevents that 21:56:48 <andythenorth> incidentally something smells wrong about CheckIfFarEnoughFromIndustry to 21:56:49 <andythenorth> me 21:57:25 *** TrueBrain [~patric@145.118.72.132] has quit [Quit: bbl] 21:57:42 <andythenorth> what cause _game_mode != GM_EDITOR to be true? 21:57:45 *** lolman [~Holygoat@cust247-dsl93-89-128.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 21:58:25 <Eddi|zuHause> normal game, not scenario editor 21:58:27 <Rubidium> not being in the (scenario) editor? 21:59:05 <andythenorth> so there is no point in checking the other two advanced options in CheckIfFarEnoughFromIndustry 21:59:42 <andythenorth> so in game, this will always be true? 21:59:42 <andythenorth> _game_mode != GM_EDITOR || !_settings_game.economy.same_industry_close || !_settings_game.economy.multiple_industry_per_town 22:00:04 <Eddi|zuHause> in the scenario editor, these settings are ignored 22:00:33 <andythenorth> ? 22:01:37 <andythenorth> nope, in the scenario editor, these settings are not ignored 22:02:23 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the line you just pasted says: "in scenario editor, treat these settings as always on" 22:02:32 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:51 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:03:49 <frosch123> yeah, that check looks totally broken :p 22:03:55 <andythenorth> scenario editor is the only place those settings work correctly for secondary industry 22:04:14 <andythenorth> even I can read that code and see the flaw :P 22:04:22 <andythenorth> and I'm a dumbass 22:04:27 <andythenorth> :D 22:05:13 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: apply deMorgan's rule on the line, and it says ¬(in scenario editor && allow industries close && allow industries in town) 22:05:31 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: and the "¬" is the bug :) 22:06:03 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i can't judge that, depends on the following blocks... 22:07:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. adding ¬ is equivalent to switching then/else blocks 22:07:35 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: umm....just read the real code :| 22:07:39 <andythenorth> :) 22:08:15 <andythenorth> here http://paste.openttd.org/225304 22:08:29 <andythenorth> for your convenience :) 22:08:35 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-199-166.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 22:09:51 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 22:11:27 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/fixnearindustries.diff <- first guess, but i do not really know what those settings are supposed to do 22:11:37 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has quit [Quit: Quit] 22:13:51 <andythenorth> frosch123: I just inverted this _game_mode != GM_EDITOR 22:13:59 <andythenorth> to _game_mode == GM_EDITOR 22:14:04 <Eddi|zuHause> you sure that is correct? 22:14:05 <andythenorth> seems to work for me 22:15:37 <andythenorth> no my version is dumb 22:15:50 <andythenorth> breaks the scenario editor :( 22:16:58 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, shouldn't the game mode be the first thing to check? 22:17:08 <andythenorth> The basis of the whole check seems stupid 22:17:09 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:17:22 <andythenorth> It may have made sense once to check accepted cargo 22:17:38 <andythenorth> But same accepted cargo != same industry type now we have newgrf industry 22:18:01 <andythenorth> The description of the advanced option for the player is at odds with what the code is trying to do 22:18:35 <Eddi|zuHause> it would be right if it said "similar" industries 22:18:48 <andythenorth> Hmm 22:19:03 <andythenorth> Are coal mine and power station similar? 22:19:18 * andythenorth wonders why he never noticed this problem with PBI 22:20:12 <andythenorth> PBI doesn't have this problem 22:20:19 * andythenorth wtfs briefly 22:20:39 <andythenorth> where does cb 28 get called? 22:23:28 <andythenorth> oh 22:24:06 <andythenorth> the game check also only looks at first cargo?! 22:24:07 <andythenorth> indspec->accepts_cargo[0] == i->accepts_cargo[0] 22:24:18 <Yexo> yes :) 22:24:45 <andythenorth> well, dumber has turned up to see his friend dumb in that bit of code then :D 22:24:45 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd 22:24:47 <frosch123> @commit 1443 22:24:47 <DorpsGek> frosch123: Commit by miham :: r1443 trunk/industry_cmd.c (2005-01-09 14:07:59 UTC) 22:24:48 <DorpsGek> frosch123: Added feature that users are able to place multiple accepting industies nearby in the editor mode if the appropriate patches are set 22:25:06 <frosch123> i don't understand those settings :) 22:25:22 <Rubidium> hmm, Miham wrote patches? 22:25:48 <Eddi|zuHause> that was long before my time... 22:25:53 <andythenorth> looks generally like a turkey to me 22:26:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i joined here around r3300 or r3900 i think 22:26:13 <andythenorth> I thought I knew what those settings did, but turns out I've been wrong for 4 years :) 22:26:16 <frosch123> well, that revision does not add those settings in the first place though 22:27:00 <Eddi|zuHause> it adds the GM_EDITOR check i presume 22:27:24 <andythenorth> hmm 22:27:34 <andythenorth> hmmm 22:27:44 <andythenorth> cb28 seems a little cut off at the kneww 22:27:49 <andythenorth> knee /s :) 22:28:15 <andythenorth> 'grf authors can fully control placement' - except in multiple strange cases where they can't :) 22:30:13 <andythenorth> could CreateNewIndustryHelper be changed so that CheckIfFarEnoughFromIndustry is not used if cb 28 is enabled? 22:30:27 <frosch123> so, those lines were supposed to do something completely different than the comments say (which were added later), and we guessed :p 22:30:52 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:32:25 <Rubidium> the question here is how much of the industry checking is left to the callback in TTDP 22:34:27 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/fixnearindustries.diff <- right? 22:35:46 <Yexo> frosch123: that is in line with the original commit, but it still feels wrong 22:35:52 <Yexo> shouldn't those settings also work in-game? 22:36:13 <frosch123> they do, but they do something different 22:36:36 <Yexo> ok 22:37:05 <andythenorth> frosch123: what are those settings supposed to do in game? 22:37:15 <frosch123> hmm, but yes. actually multiple_industry_per_town is not needed there 22:37:44 <frosch123> multiple_industry_per_town checks there is only one industry of a type per town. in both editor and in gmae 22:38:01 <frosch123> same_industry_close applies to only raw industries 22:38:34 <frosch123> except with this weird exception that it also applies to secondary industries in editor 22:39:07 <frosch123> but in that case also only for the "accept same cargo"-check, and not for the "conflicting industry types"-check 22:39:12 *** Uresu [~Wes@5ad2ec66.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 22:39:24 <frosch123> and the "accept same cargo"-check only checks the first cargo anyway 22:39:29 * andythenorth wonders what happens if I set first cargo to FF for two industry types 22:39:39 <frosch123> err, maybe we should just trash that check? 22:39:42 <andythenorth> yup 22:39:44 <andythenorth> please 22:39:48 <andythenorth> it makes me sad 22:40:13 <andythenorth> why allow primary industries near each other, but not secondary? 22:40:20 <andythenorth> all seems very weird to me 22:40:29 *** Uresu [~Wes@5ad2ec66.bb.sky.com] has left #openttd [] 22:41:38 <frosch123> primary industries near each other provide lots of cargo. secondary industries near each other generate bug reports about only one industry getting the cargo 22:43:03 <andythenorth> but they are only 14 tiles apart? 22:43:06 <frosch123> same_industry_close also disables checking for conflicting industries, like putting a coalmine next to a coalplant which spoils transporting 22:43:42 <andythenorth> not with bulldozers :) 22:45:05 <frosch123> i remember someone posting a screenshot with a station next to directly neighboured industries, with a train that just loads, moves into the depot and returns the same station for unloading :p 22:45:35 <Eddi|zuHause> is that possible at all? 22:45:37 <frosch123> though iirc that is forbidden elsewhere 22:45:50 <andythenorth> hmm 22:45:56 <andythenorth> how is pikka getting around this problem 22:45:56 <Eddi|zuHause> cargo is not unloaded at the station that it originates from 22:46:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i have seen several people complain that their cargo is not accepted at their oil refinery after a while, and they overlooked an oil well near the unloading station 22:46:45 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r19477 /trunk/src/misc/ (blob.hpp str.hpp): -Fix (r1946x): removed a few too functions including the copy constructor 22:47:20 <Eddi|zuHause> that sentence does not parse... 22:48:51 <Yexo> *too many 22:49:14 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: still more useful than virtualbox's messages 22:49:46 <Rubidium> "FE/Qt4: correction" <- kinda typical virtualbox commit message 22:50:06 <Rubidium> "FE/Qt4: fix OSE" 22:50:36 <Rubidium> i.e. it's totally useless to find something particular 22:51:55 <Rubidium> so... lets hope the compile farm runs tomorrow 22:52:32 <Rubidium> r22084 | vboxsync | 2009-08-07 21:30:38 +0200 (Fri, 07 Aug 2009) | 1 line 22:52:32 <Rubidium> Additions/x11/vboxvideo_13: Backported r31434 from vboxvideo_15: Additions/x11 and linux: make the Additions work with Fedora 9/X.org server 1.5 22:52:48 <Rubidium> that's nice too... backporting a future revision 22:53:14 <Fast2> Good evening. 22:53:22 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:47 <andythenorth> pbi steel mills can be built adjacent to each other 22:54:04 <andythenorth> scrub that 22:54:41 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-254-113-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon] 22:54:45 <Fast2> I have a problem with Version r18053 with CargoDist: http://www.LupiUpload.de/file.php/file/kMk_NLjq0o TrainA should transport wheat and cattle from the farm to the factory. In exchange, it should take away the goods and deliver them to the farm, so TrainB can bring them to the city. 22:56:24 <Rubidium> have you enabled cargodist for those kinds of cargoes? (is that actually a setting?) 22:56:44 <Rubidium> too bad the cargodist specialist isn't here 22:56:45 * andythenorth ponders 22:56:54 <Fast2> The problem: TrainA takes away the goods he just unloaded because the destination for the goods is not set to the city's station but to "any" station. 22:57:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: the setting is called "demand function" 22:57:49 <Rubidium> Fast2: maybe setting "no loading" in the "loading" dropdown does the trick 22:57:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Fast2: it sometimes takes time until the algorithm finds targets for a cargo 22:58:15 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 22:58:18 <andythenorth> frosch123 so bug reports about adjacent industries not getting cargo are ok, as long as the industries are placed in the scenario editor? smell funny to you? 22:58:19 <Yexo> Fast2: maybe it owrks after you force unload one time 22:58:22 <Eddi|zuHause> just dump the "any station" cargo somewhere 22:58:57 <Fast2> Ah, I see. 22:59:20 <Fast2> I'll try it. 22:59:34 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth/frosch123: in the long run, it would be better if cargo was distributed over all nearby industries... 23:00:35 <Eddi|zuHause> especially when industries can only process limited amount of cargo without setting a stockpile limit, this behaviour really hurt 23:03:17 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:03:36 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: 'limited' is still quite a lot in reality 23:04:00 <andythenorth> up to 65k per production tick 23:04:04 <Rubidium> especially? All industries are limited 23:05:30 <andythenorth> or do you mean PBI style? 23:07:06 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i mean if the industry defines "convert at most 300 items per production tick" 23:08:05 <andythenorth> yep 23:09:37 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10:30 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-19-44.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 23:15:46 <Fast2> Hm, the destination is set for a short time but then discarded (no loading + unload only accepted) (old result, I forgot to send...). New result: The goods get often the destination, but sometimes it gets discarded. 23:17:37 <Fast2> *the|their/a 23:18:59 <Fast2> What do you suggest? Increasing the "Linkgraph recalculation interval"? 23:21:25 <andythenorth> grr 23:22:08 <andythenorth> I can't use cb14B to get around this industry check problem 23:22:42 <Yexo> Fast2: you'll probably get more help if you post your savegame in the cargodist topic 23:23:34 <andythenorth> indspec->accepts_cargo[0] == i->accepts_cargo[0] evaluates true when cargo slot is empty :x 23:23:44 <andythenorth> fair, but annoying 23:24:17 <Yexo> that seems wrong 23:25:24 <andythenorth> I just tested it :) 23:25:52 <Yexo> I know it does, but it shouldn't do that 23:26:36 <andythenorth> it's conceptually a stupid check anyway 23:27:49 <Terkhen> good night 23:27:55 <Rubidium> night Terkhen 23:27:55 <Yexo> night Terkhen 23:28:24 <Rubidium> andythenorth: many things implemented long ago are now, with NewGRFs, considered stupid 23:28:30 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@215.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...] 23:29:05 <Wolf01> 'night 23:29:16 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host33-238-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:29:18 <Rubidium> yeah, we'll bury you 23:30:07 <Fast2> Yexo: There? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=41992&start=1560 23:30:15 <Yexo> Fast2: yes 23:30:50 <Fast2> Do you know my password? :D 23:31:33 <andythenorth> Rubidium: I guess we find them one by one :D 23:33:11 <Yexo> <andythenorth> indspec->accepts_cargo[0] == i->accepts_cargo[0] evaluates true when cargo slot is empty :x <- in r1 there was a special check for an empty cargo slot 23:34:30 <PeterT> why is http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=865601#p865601 trying to load original_dos by default? 23:34:57 <Yexo> why not? 23:35:10 <PeterT> It's on a Windows system 23:35:13 <Yexo> he probably doesn't have any graphics set at all, so the first one encountered is shown in the error message 23:35:17 <PeterT> Does it always load dos by default? 23:35:33 <Yexo> the graphics from the ttd dos version load perfectly fine in openttd on any system 23:35:55 <Yexo> or did you also think the ttd windows graphics didn't work on linux? 23:36:38 <andythenorth> Yexo: r1 as in, r1, the first commit? 23:37:06 <Yexo> yes, but only first in the repository 23:37:19 <Yexo> r1 is an import from r975 from an older svn 23:37:27 <PeterT> I thought DOS graphics had adverse affects on windows 23:37:29 <andythenorth> so that went MIA somewhere? 23:37:37 <Yexo> yep 23:37:38 <andythenorth> or is my test flawed? 23:37:55 <Yexo> no, that check was removed at some point 23:38:03 <PeterT> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=46508 23:38:19 <PeterT> Oh, the image isn't there anymore 23:38:41 <Yexo> PeterT: see Rubidium reply in that topic, the rest is talking nonsense 23:39:02 <PeterT> As usual... 23:40:06 *** fjb [~frank@p5485C741.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40:07 <Rubidium> huh, what are you talking about? 23:40:51 <PeterT> Rubidium: That they are mostly just posts until you come along with the real answer 23:40:52 <PeterT> :-) 23:42:12 <Rubidium> why are those new keyboard so much more fragile than the good old keyboard? Makes cleaning them so much trickier :( 23:43:00 <Rubidium> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/ModelM.jpg <- that's what I mean with "good old" :) 23:43:18 <Rubidium> with a proper steel construction, weighing half a tonne etc. 23:43:30 <Yexo> http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/same_cargo_acceptance.diff this fixes the "does an existing industry accept the same cargo" check 23:43:50 *** fjb [~frank@p5485C741.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:44:02 <Wizzleby> Rubidium: somewhere I recall seeing a modern keyboard built like those 23:44:16 <Yexo> but I'm not sure how much sense that whole check makes 23:44:32 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd 23:44:34 <Rubidium> Wizzleby: yeah, those were like 150 dollar or so 23:45:08 <PeterT> Rubidium: What does a "new" one look like? 23:45:28 <Wizzleby> Rubidium: yeah, which is sadly not a shocking price for 'high end' keyboards these days. But still, I'd rather be getting metal construction for 0 than... a plastic piece of crap for the same price 23:46:26 <Wizzleby> PeterT: IIRC, it looked a lot like the picture Rubidium posted, only it was black, had a USB interface 23:46:57 <PeterT> Oh right, I wouldn't consider those hard to clean 23:47:52 <Wizzleby> I think he meant the plastic kind are hard to clean 23:48:49 <Rubidium> yeah... removing the keys is tricky 23:48:59 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 23:49:24 <Rubidium> trying to use a vacuum cleaner ends up with missing keys and/or keys broken from their connecting stuff (same as when you try to remove them manually) 23:50:02 <Rubidium> the old ones you could just, even with brute force although usually not needed, remove the keys and throw them in some (near) boiling water 23:51:24 <Rubidium> bah... the paint on my mouse is almost gone on parts (like on my previous laptop) 23:51:47 <PeterT> that usually happens to me with my keys 23:51:53 <Rubidium> but then, using the mouse for 6 years... that's pretty good I'd say 23:52:31 <OwenS> Rubidium: My mouse is ab out ~11 years old :p 23:52:35 <Rubidium> now... logitech, why don't you have an option to "opt out" wireless mice in the search? 23:53:13 <OwenS> I'd guess about 10... in any case, the Microsoft logo has almost gone, and it's turned rather yellow :p 23:53:58 <OwenS> On the plus side, it still works perfectly* 23:54:14 <OwenS> *Except for when the sensor gets covered in cat fur. Which affects any optical mouse 23:55:40 <Fast2> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=865614#p865614 23:55:40 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-103-148.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:56:24 <Rubidium> OwenS: did they have optical mice back then? 23:56:43 <OwenS> Rubidium: It's an original Wheel Mouse Optical. I.E, very early 23:59:13 <fjb> Microsoft's optical mice are great. They should stick to producing mice. 23:59:41 <Rubidium> fjb: I want to do the marketing for they keyboards :)