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00:00:06 <andythenorth> Yexo: I'm compiling that diff now, although it might really be bed time :o 00:00:07 <Rubidium> "The new 10.000 character keyboard from Microsoft, now only .95" 00:00:39 <Rubidium> (ever seen the massive list of warnings/manual at the back of their keyboards?) 00:00:53 <fjb> Ok, but they should surely stey away from software and concentrate on things they can. 00:01:02 <andythenorth> Yexo: compile failed with errors http://paste.openttd.org/225305 00:01:20 <Yexo> that are 2 harmless warnings, not errors 00:01:49 <andythenorth> doh 00:01:53 <Rubidium> only two warnings? It's easy to generate way more 00:01:57 <andythenorth> definitely bed time 00:02:26 <Yexo> Rubidium: not without making msvc generate some warnings too 00:02:51 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-254-113-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 00:02:52 <Rubidium> Yexo: http://rbijker.net/openttd/log <- recently current trunk, assertions disabled, lto (gcc-4.5) enabled 00:03:05 <Nite_Owl> Hello all 00:03:38 <frosch123> night all 00:03:42 <Yexo> Rubidium: that is just a single warning repeated many times 00:03:44 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f5e3a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04:15 <Rubidium> yeah, but the massiveness of the "from" lists 00:04:41 <Rubidium> and that all caused by a (confirmed) compiler bug 00:05:13 <andythenorth> Yexo: that diff appears to solve the empty cargo slot issue 00:05:33 <andythenorth> and it's a more sane check :) 00:05:41 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-104-88.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 00:05:44 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 00:06:39 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-252-196.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Something strange must have happened...] 00:07:54 <andythenorth> pfaff 00:08:23 <DJ_Nekkid> thats a sewingmachine producer you know... 00:08:40 * andythenorth makes plans to recode 20 industries 00:09:23 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76028.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:09:43 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74A6A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:09:59 * andythenorth considers filing a bug....I have two sawmills near a station, only one gets the cargo :D 00:10:53 <andythenorth> lulz 00:11:05 <Yexo> andythenorth: FS#3381, you're too late ;) 00:11:52 <andythenorth> more lulz 00:12:10 <andythenorth> funny that a check exists in game to prevent that 9.9 00:12:51 <andythenorth> enough griping 00:12:59 <andythenorth> thanks for help today, those who helped :) 00:13:02 <andythenorth> good night 00:13:09 <PeterT> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=865618#p865618 Typical. 00:13:14 <PeterT> Good night andythenorth 00:13:19 <Nite_Owl> later andythenorth 00:13:31 <Yexo> he probably never tried to extract the zip in the first place 00:13:45 <Yexo> but we'll never now, as he probably won't come back to the forum again now his problem is solved 00:13:52 <PeterT> "I bet it doesn't work anyway" 00:14:23 <PeterT> Doesn't even explain what he did right 00:14:26 *** andythenorth [~andytheno@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 00:14:36 <PeterT> for other, future people with similar problems 00:20:40 *** davis [~b@p5B28BBE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:25:56 *** andythenorth [~andytheno@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 00:29:47 *** davis [~b@p5B28BBE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:30:49 *** andythenorth [~andytheno@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 00:31:15 * PeterT wonders what the point of a bouncer is if you don't stay in the channel 00:32:00 <Yexo> hiding your ip address? 00:32:39 <davis> i'd say saving nickname , but theres some nickserv on oftc 00:32:51 <PeterT> Yexo: /whois would show it anyway 00:33:13 <OwenS> PeterT: No, it would show the BNC's 00:33:32 <PeterT> why would you want to hide it, anyway? 00:34:00 <Yexo> use your imagination :) 00:37:22 <roboboy> to avoid being (D)DOSed? 00:37:52 <roboboy> or the risk of it happening 00:38:05 <fjb> And many other things. 00:38:39 <PeterT> good morning, roboboy 00:38:45 <davis> anonymity is something nice on the internet :D 00:39:07 *** Elessar [~tanguy@vanvogt.ortolo.eu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:39:10 *** Elessar [~tanguy@vanvogt.ortolo.eu] has joined #openttd 00:40:03 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B399.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:23 <PeterT> Interesting modules for iPhones - http://en.znc.in/wiki/Prowl 00:40:39 <PeterT> Sends you highlight alerts, as if you could respond to them 00:40:46 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 00:40:53 <OwenS> That message triggered my spam detector... 00:41:31 <davis> Interesting viagra for Men - http://www.google.com/cn 00:42:59 <OwenS> ...That message should have triggered OFTC's spam filters :p 00:43:21 <davis> should have :p 00:43:29 <davis> maybe they love google. 00:43:36 *** Tennel [~Tennel@pD95294A4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.1.1] 00:44:07 <Yexo> it probably would have triggered it if you posted that in multiple channels or multiple times here 00:44:25 <davis> most certainly 00:44:34 <Yexo> but if a single line would trigger the filtes the you wouldn't even be able to say: "Look what spam we got in there yesterday: ..." 00:44:46 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:45:03 <davis> well there could be some keyword trigger 00:45:34 <davis> so e.g viagra and men and some website in one line 00:45:50 *** bartavel` [~bartavell@sd-18002.dedibox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:45:52 *** bartavelle [~bartavell@bigbox.banquise.net] has joined #openttd 00:45:58 <Rubidium> what spammer writes viagra correctly? 00:46:21 <davis> Andy Dick mayhabs 00:46:43 <Yexo> davis: I get a lot of mail about viagra for men lately, I tried www.some-spam-filter.com but that didn't work, what do you use? <- it'll also trigger on such lines 00:46:47 <Yexo> it's not that easy :) 00:47:07 <davis> yeah I get your point 00:47:41 <davis> if it'd be that easy to make a perfect spam-filter or protection 00:47:51 <OwenS> I'd kind of expect it to send a message to an op :p 00:47:55 <davis> the botnets would go bankrupt and the internet traffic would fall about 75% 00:48:09 <OwenS> davis: Somewhat less. 50% is BitTorrent 00:48:24 <davis> yeah I had that in mind too 00:48:40 <davis> i can't actually believe that this many people still use torrent , mostly for illegal purposes 00:48:57 <davis> at least in germany they are realy after torrent loaders haha 00:49:35 <Rubidium> yeah, because we use torrents we don't spend 1500 euros a year on CDs and such 00:49:36 <OwenS> davis: In the UK... they've at most sent threatening letters. And had no court admissible evidence 00:50:11 <Rubidium> and again... if they close torrents the good people suffer for the bad people 00:50:14 <davis> well I do prefer wuala or rapidshare :P 00:50:19 <davis> for legal purposes ofcourse 00:50:22 <Rubidium> see airport security madness 00:50:28 <davis> nude scanning 00:50:30 <davis> wee. 00:50:45 <OwenS> Rubidium: The police really hate things like IPRED. Makes their job so much harder 00:50:53 <Rubidium> davis: yeah, that method that wouldn't have caught the Christmas bomber 00:51:17 <OwenS> Rubidium: Security Theatre ;-) 00:51:20 <Rubidium> and that method that can't be legally used for children in most countries 00:51:27 <davis> actually I only been to London heathrow once. And i was lucky enough to witness some arabian looking dude being arested by 5 very angry mp5 armed men. 00:52:03 <davis> now that's all you can wish for , visiting London ;) 00:52:28 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.17.249.21] has quit [Quit: ãããã¿] 00:52:53 <davis> oh well Rubidium don't be too certain about "legally" doing anything. Just now they banned "killer-games" such as egoshooters in switzerland for the possibly most stupid reason 00:53:27 <davis> it might turn people with mental problems into killing machines , and therefore a general ban is reasonable 00:54:12 <davis> 21st cenutry is awesome. 00:54:20 <Rubidium> davis: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/jan/04/new-scanners-child-porn-laws 00:54:56 <davis> Me being a bit general now , about every law can be bypassed by another law 00:55:35 <Rubidium> yup 00:55:54 <OwenS> If I ruled a country, I would so introduce the death penalty. But only for politicians comitting certain offences. 00:56:18 <davis> you ruling a country you'd be a politican yourself , unless you want to be the Queen :P 00:56:39 <Rubidium> davis: general? 00:56:53 <OwenS> davis: And therefore bound by my own law. I'd also make modifying said law a real legal quagmire, generally involving the proposer being executed 00:56:56 <davis> going the Korean way? 00:57:30 <davis> yeah that'd work OwenS 00:57:53 <davis> one way or another , about every political system has it's flaws 00:58:42 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2D9939.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Regel Nr. 1: Jeder hört auf mein Kommando! - Regel Nr. 2: Jeder bleibt auf dem Weg! - Regel Nr. 3: ... ... Der, der blÀht, als hinterster geht!] 00:58:46 <OwenS> (OK, if I were writing a constitution, I'd make modifying it requre two supermajorities in two successive parlimentary terms, then a supermajority from the populace, then in the next term it would require another supermajority in both parliment and with the populace to be kept 00:58:49 *** _newage_ [~victor@81.32.62.61] has joined #openttd 00:59:00 <davis> haha 00:59:01 <davis> here we go. 00:59:49 <Rubidium> the biggest flaw is stupidity and everything related to that (extremism in all forms included) 01:00:10 <Rubidium> yes, I'd classify the pope as an extremist 01:00:20 <davis> nazi-pope 01:00:22 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:00:34 <Rubidium> oh... there goes the discussion :( 01:00:56 <davis> well , einstein said something about human stupidity I think 01:00:57 <davis> :P 01:01:18 <OwenS> Rubidium: Who wouldn't classify the pope as an extremist? Related side note: I watched an interesting debate recently about the catholic church. 01:01:54 <davis> as shocking that might be , there are still a LOT of hardcore believers around 01:02:05 <Rubidium> OwenS: that the (child) abuse in the church is because of the celibacy? 01:02:46 <OwenS> Rubidium: "Is the catholic church a force for good in the world". Most notable speaker: Stephen Fry. Polling before and after, most audience members voted no before, and even more did so after 01:03:44 <Rubidium> OwenS: yeah, saw that... that was good :) 01:03:49 <davis> I'am always good for a round of church bashing. 01:03:58 <_newage_> common do you have to discuss religious stuff now? perverts are near kids in churchs, holiday trips, schools... 01:04:12 <davis> or on irc 01:04:16 <OwenS> I want the "Is europe failing it's muslims" debate footage to be posted already >_< 01:04:17 <_newage_> :D yeah 01:04:54 <Rubidium> _newage_: with perverts you mean the priests, right? 01:04:59 <davis> haha 01:05:06 <_newage_> obviously 01:05:12 <davis> catholic schools are no good for your kid 01:05:42 <_newage_> no priests, not exactly 01:06:05 <OwenS> Any religious education is bad, whether catholic, protestant, muslim, jewish or atheist... 01:06:09 <_newage_> paedophiles 01:06:20 *** lolman [~Holygoat@cust247-dsl93-89-128.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:06:36 <_newage_> or a politic party ideology 01:07:02 <davis> well OwenS , that might be a bit harsh. I think religion is just fine as long you don't overdo it 01:07:41 <davis> Though iam a non believer myself :c 01:07:46 <OwenS> davis: And a religious school does so. Education should always be agnostic; otherwise closes minds 01:07:49 <fjb> Men inveted god. So what ist that invention good for? 01:07:54 <Rubidium> davis: but is "forcing" your child to pray before lunch overdoing it or not? 01:08:07 <_newage_> a person who can't take knowing he is going right to the worms is a shame 01:08:13 <Rubidium> fjb: subdueing others 01:08:15 <davis> In my humble Opinion it is overdoing it by far haha 01:08:32 <fjb> Rubidium: good answer. 01:08:36 <Fast2> Now, it seems to work altough I did not change anything important... 01:08:47 *** tneo [~tneo@vs241204.vserver.de] has quit [Quit: ZNC by prozac - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 01:09:04 <Rubidium> fjb: i.e. a theocracy, e.g. Iran and possibly the USA 01:09:26 *** tneo [~tneo@vs241204.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 01:09:53 <fjb> Not only possibly the USA. And the leading German party is also christian. 01:09:56 <davis> I was baptized protestant , but noone ever forced me to go anywhere , pray to anyone or believe anything 01:10:37 <davis> that however led me to not going to church for almost 15 years now :D 01:10:49 <_newage_> theocracies are scaring, I don't know how people can have some sympathy for the americans 01:11:04 <davis> "9/11 changed everything" 01:11:08 <_newage_> ops 01:11:24 <Rubidium> fjb: true, but... "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the USA and the republic for which it stands: one nation under GOD..." 01:11:47 <Rubidium> does Germany have something like that that is drilled DAILY on school? 01:12:01 <fjb> No, it did not really change everything. It only made it easier for the security industry and for the militare. 01:12:02 <_newage_> when they say GOd they mean: US, the government! 01:13:03 <fjb> Rubidium: Not yet. But politicians started to talk about teaching creationism at school. 01:13:08 <Rubidium> fjb: and to make it even more fun... do they pledge allegiance to the flag when entering an amusement park? 01:14:06 <Rubidium> Germany is so much farther from being a theocracy than the USA 01:14:06 <fjb> Rubidium: Things are not done that obvious here. And we are far from the way the USA is doing things. But it starts here. 01:14:22 <davis> Germany got a east-German chancelor :p 01:14:37 <fjb> Yes, but a christian one. 01:14:48 <davis> haha 01:15:21 <davis> America was choosen by the lord to bring peace and democracy to the world 01:15:27 <davis> preferable the nations with oil. 01:15:36 <_newage_> :P 01:16:41 <Rubidium> davis: that's probably a broken translation... "... to bring pieces and demo crazy to the world" 01:16:58 <davis> my bad , excuse me :P 01:17:48 <Rubidium> so... there went my chance to go to the US... 01:18:08 *** davis is now known as CIA 01:18:12 <CIA> logged and saved. 01:18:15 *** CIA is now known as davis 01:18:22 <fjb> You can deduce everything from a false assumption. That god exists is a false assumption. 01:18:36 <davis> god is dead. 01:18:47 <Rubidium> hopefully the commonwealths still allow me though :) 01:19:18 <davis> yeah GB is pretty open :D 01:20:30 <davis> though it can get pretty scary if they ask you to bootup your laptop at the airport and you got the wrong custom-bootscreen :p 01:20:59 <davis> e.g a countdown 01:21:13 <Rubidium> "sorry", can you give me the bag you just put through the scanner? :) 01:21:38 <davis> ;] 01:22:26 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: ecke] 01:22:27 <Rubidium> never experienced that though 01:22:47 <Rubidium> and I've seen my fair share of crazy TSAers 01:22:54 <davis> TSAers? 01:23:12 <Rubidium> Transportation Security Administration 01:23:22 <davis> dangerous species. 01:24:30 <davis> oh well enough security/religion/nation/priest/pedophiles bashing for now :) 01:24:47 <Rubidium> all extremists! :) 01:25:07 <davis> that's of course a matter of fact :D 01:25:07 <Rubidium> oh, did I already say the Dutch are stupid? 01:26:50 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:27:18 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-199-166.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:28:19 <_newage_> bloody dutchs! 01:28:25 <_newage_> :D only joking 01:28:34 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-254-113-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon] 01:29:30 <davis> haha 01:43:50 *** ptr [~peter@90-227-166-229-no72.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 01:45:24 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:46:15 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:46:59 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:49:55 <PeterT> Ahh - The wiki is finally back to a normal amount of edits per day 01:51:04 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd 01:57:37 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8839.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:05:46 *** aber [~alvin@p5B325EEF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: aber] 02:17:25 *** Adambean [~AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 02:24:27 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-104-88.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:26:46 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-184-21.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 02:26:49 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 02:37:44 *** WizzleBLincoln [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-19-44.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 02:39:45 *** Wizzleby is now known as Guest1612 02:39:45 *** WizzleBLincoln is now known as Wizzleby 02:44:08 *** Guest1612 [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-19-44.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:56:30 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@cpc4-pool12-2-0-cust17.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 03:00:51 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@CPE-58-173-248-50.szxn1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 03:11:51 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@roaming-172-203.nss.udel.edu] has joined #openttd 03:16:22 *** kkb1101 [~kkb110@host133-16.student.udel.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:17:36 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn14-2-0-cust562.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:25:51 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-144-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 03:29:18 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:893e:d727:4be:f804] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:31:39 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-220-139-245.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:41:00 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@cpc4-pool12-2-0-cust17.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:44:37 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@nas46-122.york.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]] 04:00:12 *** llugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c947.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:05:09 *** DanMacK [~here@65.94.201.53] has joined #openttd 04:23:01 *** _newage_ [~victor@81.32.62.61] has left #openttd [] 04:24:17 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:59:24 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-19-44.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:13:01 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@CPE-58-173-248-50.szxn1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 05:16:38 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@CPE-58-173-248-50.szxn1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 05:26:51 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@CPE-58-173-248-50.szxn1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:27:17 *** davis [~b@p5B28BBE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:32:55 *** DanMacK [~here@65.94.201.53] has quit [] 05:56:50 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:37:46 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 06:51:10 *** OTTDnoob [626f01c4@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 06:51:36 <OTTDnoob> How do I place a "normal signal" 06:52:03 <OTTDnoob> Im looking at a tutorial and it says the following 06:52:09 <OTTDnoob> Notice the signals around the loop are all one-way. To place a one-way signal place a signal as normal, then click the signal again, once or twice depending on the orientation you want for your signal. 06:52:51 <OTTDnoob> But I don't know how to "place a oneway signal as a normal signal 06:53:58 <OTTDnoob> Is a one way entry signal a "normal signal"? 06:55:58 <Yexo> " To place a one-way signal place a signal as normal, then click the signal again" <- what is meant is: "just build a normal signal by clicking on the tile, this will build a twoway signal (at least it did with old openttd builds). After you bulid a twoway signal keep the build-signal tool open and click the tile with the signal again" 06:56:21 <Yexo> that part probably needs to be rewritten if path signals are the default signal type 06:57:22 *** woldemar [~osaka@213.178.34.57] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:59:53 <OTTDnoob> I think I got it...I was using oneway entry signals but I think I should have been using block signals..I misread what the block signal does 07:08:27 *** OTTDnoob [626f01c4@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 07:09:30 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:10:57 *** woldemar [~osaka@213.178.34.57] has joined #openttd 07:27:40 *** DJ_Nekkid [~thomas@static128-249.adsl.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:34:07 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 07:42:54 *** DJ_Nekkid [~thomas@static128-249.adsl.no] has joined #openttd 07:49:09 *** andythenorth [~andytheno@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 08:05:14 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:21:06 <andythenorth> morning 08:22:23 <Alberth> good morning 08:23:40 <Alberth> I'd expect a newgrf debug button somewhere in the newgrf window 08:41:28 *** Bobbysepp [~Bobbysepp@c-98-225-53-32.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 08:48:50 <andythenorth> Alberth: in addition to my other suggestions, or instead of? 08:49:27 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-184-21.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:50:33 <Alberth> Don't know. For industry, there is a simple 1-to-1 relation between newgrf objects and gui windows. For other newgrfs it may be less simple (eg a house, bridge, cost factors, etc) 08:50:49 <Alberth> (but you know that better than I do :) ) 08:51:39 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-225-107.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 08:51:42 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 08:51:48 <andythenorth> Alberth: I have never coded a bridge or house :) 08:51:51 <andythenorth> or a station 08:52:59 <Alberth> Also, I cannot estimate how much more tricky it gets if you'd only have one button related with a single newgrf instead of one for each use of it (like what you seem to suggest). 08:54:08 <Alberth> perhaps you'd need to have a list of 'uses' or so in that debug window 08:54:23 <Muxy> Hi there, What does mean the error "disconnecting vehicle ?" 08:54:36 <Muxy> "Disconnecting Road Vehicle" 08:54:46 <Alberth> we have that error in the game? 08:55:25 <Muxy> Yes, on win32 client side it appears with MessageBox 08:55:29 <andythenorth> probably an articulated road vehicle that has come apart for some reason 08:55:40 <Alberth> Nope, we only have a disconnecting network: "STR_NETWORK_CONNECTION_DISCONNECT :{BLACK}Disconnect" 08:55:51 <Alberth> it must be a NewGRF message 08:56:11 <Muxy> and on server it appears on the console 08:56:24 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-220-101.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 08:56:36 <Alberth> error messages tend to pop up everywhere :) 08:56:37 <Muxy> and server process stops 08:56:59 <Alberth> but it is a NewGRF message, so ask its author. 08:57:21 <Muxy> on client after "ok" on the messagebox i have the fatal application failure 08:58:12 <planetmaker> moin 08:58:16 *** Bobbysepp [~Bobbysepp@c-98-225-53-32.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:58:57 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@44.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 08:59:07 <Alberth> Muxy: NewGRF are not simple graphics additions, they run as part of the game and share data structures etc, so yes, a broken NewGRF can bring down the game. 08:59:08 <Terkhen> good morning 08:59:22 <Alberth> good morning Terkhen and planetmaker 08:59:35 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm173.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 08:59:40 <planetmaker> Muxy: you want some savegames which will crash OpenTTD due to now unavailable but compatibly marked newgrfs? :-D 09:00:06 <andythenorth> hi Terkhen 09:00:11 <Alberth> planetmaker: he already has one :) 09:00:26 <planetmaker> hehe :-) 09:00:55 <planetmaker> I have at least one. With a very very early FIRS version with now very incompatible industries... 100% chance of instant crash ;) 09:01:05 <planetmaker> Though old ISR savegames are good, too 09:01:52 <planetmaker> Alberth: did I read that correcly somehow when briefly scanning history, that newgrf debug features are thought of? 09:02:22 <Alberth> andythenorth has such thoughts at the dev(?) forum 09:02:49 <andythenorth> planetmaker: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=47679 09:02:50 <planetmaker> Not a bad thought :-) 09:03:22 <Alberth> just pushing him a bit to make it useful for all newgrfs :) 09:03:48 <andythenorth> I only drew the icon. Yexo provided the initial patch :) 09:03:51 <Muxy> Ok Alberth i found the error 09:04:04 <Muxy> if (dir == INVALID_TRACKDIR) { 09:04:05 <Muxy> if (!IsRoadVehFront(v)) error("Disconnecting road vehicle."); 09:04:05 <Muxy> v->cur_speed = 0; 09:04:05 <Muxy> return false; 09:04:05 <Muxy> } 09:04:13 <planetmaker> ah, that looks VERY useful indeed 09:04:17 <Muxy> roadveh.cpp 09:04:24 <Muxy> nothing to do with newgrf 09:04:43 <Alberth> wow 09:04:49 <andythenorth> planetmaker: that patch was life saving the last few days 09:04:55 <planetmaker> Muxy: that's newgrf 09:05:01 <planetmaker> or can be 09:05:08 <planetmaker> articulated vs. non-articulated for instance 09:05:29 <planetmaker> or tram vs. road 09:05:31 <planetmaker> and stuff 09:05:40 <planetmaker> if you mix up IDs of vehicles in different versions 09:06:12 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I do believe so :-) 09:06:20 <andythenorth> Muxy: what newgrf are you using? 09:06:23 <planetmaker> I just downloaded it for future usage :-) 09:06:29 <Muxy> letme check on my server config 09:07:20 <Eddi|zuHause> [20.03.2010 02:12] <Rubidium> fjb: true, but... "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the USA and the republic for which it stands: one nation under GOD..." 09:07:21 <Eddi|zuHause> [20.03.2010 02:12] <Rubidium> does Germany have something like that that is drilled DAILY on school? 09:07:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know about west germany, but in east germany there was some sort of oath spoken every day in school. being communistic it tended to avoid religion, though, but does that really matter? 09:07:39 <Muxy> generictrams_v0.4 on server 09:08:02 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: we never had any such thing ever in school 09:08:14 <andythenorth> Muxy: can't help then, sorry :) Glad it's not my grf then. 09:08:29 <Eddi|zuHause> my memorys back then are kind of vague... 09:08:49 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: my memorys of yesterday are kind of vague :) 09:08:53 <Alberth> Muxy: roadveh.cpp does not exist in trunk 09:08:54 <planetmaker> Only two times I pledged to serve the state faithfully (not swear though) was in the army and when I took my current job 09:09:12 <Muxy> roadveh_cmd.cpp, sorry 09:09:53 <Muxy> hum forget to mention i was in 0.7.5 09:09:55 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway... there's an official oath in germany, which includes a phrase like "so god helps me", where the rules allow replacing "god" with any deity you wish, or leave out the phrase entirely 09:10:19 <planetmaker> yes, indeed. So that's up to whoever takes the oath 09:11:17 <planetmaker> Without the last half-sentence it would be against §4 GG 09:11:57 *** George3 [~George@212.113.107.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:15:30 *** George [~George@212.113.107.216] has joined #openttd 09:19:40 <Muxy> cant understand how newgrf can be involved in the "Disconnecting Road Vehicle" error 09:23:21 <planetmaker> Muxy: I told you how :-) 09:23:48 <planetmaker> [10:05] <planetmaker> articulated vs. non-articulated for instance 09:23:50 <planetmaker> [10:05] <planetmaker> or tram vs. road 09:23:51 <planetmaker> [10:05] <planetmaker> and stuff 09:23:53 <planetmaker> [10:05] <planetmaker> if you mix up IDs of vehicles in different versions 09:24:11 <Muxy> what does mean : if you mix up IDs blablabla 09:24:47 <Muxy> did you take in account that ONLY generictrams was used ? 09:25:59 <Terkhen> if you use different versions of a single GRF in the same savegame, you can mess it up too 09:26:24 <andythenorth> Muxy: what version of OTTD? 09:26:27 <Muxy> i use ONLY generictrams.grf 09:26:32 <Muxy> [10:09] <Muxy> hum forget to mention i was in 0.7.5 09:27:46 <Terkhen> that's what I said, single GRF, different versions 09:27:58 <Terkhen> or even only a GRF that has some kind of bug or problem 09:28:19 <Muxy> diffrent version of what 09:28:39 <Terkhen> [10:26:00] <Terkhen> if you use different versions of a single GRF in the same savegame, you can mess it up too 09:28:50 <Muxy> how can you do this ? 09:29:30 <Alberth> make a save game with one version, play further with another (updated) one 09:29:47 <Muxy> the game was running on dedicated forked server 09:30:17 <Alberth> you start from an empty world? 09:30:21 <Muxy> yes 09:30:23 <Forked> oy 09:31:50 <Alberth> euhm, to be clear, 'empty' in the sense that you create a new world, rather than load a save game 09:32:19 <Muxy> no savegame has been loaded 09:32:41 <Muxy> just started the server 09:34:54 <Alberth> I don't have enough experience with newgrfs to know how to proceed, I am afraid. 09:35:34 <Alberth> One thing you could do is to check whether a recent 1.0 version (or a nightly) still has this problem. 09:47:56 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D2B8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:49:23 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@roaming-172-203.nss.udel.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:59:17 <erani> I wonder if this has been asked before, but are the open music tracks going to be included in 1.0.0 release? 10:00:51 <planetmaker> no, but you can opt to download them in the installer. Same as with sounds and graphcs base sets 10:01:22 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has joined #openttd 10:01:52 <erani> ah, I meant that. but they are available already? nifty 10:03:31 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:26:20 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d823bc1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:27:30 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:28:19 *** jano [~Miranda@195.91.55.76] has joined #openttd 10:29:13 *** jano [~Miranda@195.91.55.76] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 10:29:47 *** jano [~Miranda@195.91.55.76] has joined #openttd 10:31:10 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Administr@89.246.201.114] has joined #openttd 10:34:19 *** aber [~Adium@p5B325D6F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:56:54 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 11:11:17 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: alberth * r19478 /trunk/src/ (town_cmd.cpp town_gui.cpp town_type.h): -Codechange: Resolve TS_ prefix clash between TileSource and TownSize enums. 11:11:29 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: alberth * r19479 /trunk/src/ (town_cmd.cpp town_type.h): -Codechange: Test range of town size and layout instead of against the current last value. 11:13:19 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF89DE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:24:02 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:24:53 *** aber [~Adium@p5B325D6F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:25:48 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:36:00 *** jano [~Miranda@195.91.55.76] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 11:38:16 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:39:44 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 11:39:45 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@lust.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 11:44:12 *** ptr [~peter@90-227-166-229-no72.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 11:44:56 *** ptr [~peter@90-227-166-229-no72.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [] 11:45:27 *** ptr [~peter@90-227-166-229-no72.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 11:51:39 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@81.107.119-80.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd 11:58:51 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:03:10 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@81.107.119-80.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:04:17 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.17.249.21] has joined #openttd 12:06:10 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd665.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:06:52 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 12:09:19 *** aber [~Adium@p5B325D6F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:14:50 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF89DE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:20:25 *** DJ_Nekkid [~thomas@static128-249.adsl.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:21:25 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19480 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix: Stop reducing the size of the vehicle list after selecting a vehicle with a long description. 12:28:58 <andythenorth> I have a problem and would like some advice on the right thing to do: 12:28:59 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/wrong_footed_by_industry_location_code 12:29:07 *** DJ_Nekkid [~thomas@static128-249.adsl.no] has joined #openttd 12:43:29 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c2c6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:51:04 <PeterT> why does a bind usually fail? 12:51:04 <PeterT> dbg: [net] Listening on 95.211.11.24:3979 12:51:05 <PeterT> dbg: [net] [server] could not start network: bind() failed 12:51:55 <PeterT> I keep setting the port to 3978, but it goes back to 3979 12:54:14 <Ammler> why do you like to use 3978? 12:54:26 <PeterT> I already have a server on 3979 12:55:06 <Ammler> maybe it doesn't allow 3978 because that is used for the advertising.. 12:55:12 <PeterT> oh 12:55:27 <Ammler> @ports 12:55:27 <DorpsGek> Ammler: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound) 12:55:38 <Alberth> and 3979 fails since there is another server using that port 12:55:48 <PeterT> oh oh 12:55:57 <PeterT> makes sense 12:56:09 <PeterT> thanks, i'll try again in a sec 12:57:22 *** Goulp [~Goulp@main.goulp.net] has left #openttd [PACKET_CLIENT_QUIT] 12:59:24 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc3f1a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:07:23 <andythenorth> :D 13:08:42 <andythenorth> fetching the town index for an industry - I'm thinking that's not too expensive to do? 13:11:12 <Alberth> Industry has a Town *town field, so most likely, no :) 13:13:03 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 13:15:14 <PeterT> Ok. I just set it to 3980, and it still tried to bind to 2979 13:15:18 <PeterT> *3979 13:16:17 <PeterT> http://paste.openttd.org/225312 13:17:26 <planetmaker> you possibly modified the wrong cfg? 13:18:21 <PeterT> I don't think so - I just tried ./openttd -D -c "openttd.cfg" 13:18:25 <PeterT> and it still didn't work 13:18:28 <Alberth> you also use a -D [ip][:port] = Start dedicated server parameter? 13:19:38 <PeterT> http://paste.openttd.org/225313 13:21:38 <Ammler> what if you grep for 3979 in the cfg? 13:22:04 <PeterT> Ammler: I know I've changed it, but whenever I start openttd -D, it changes server_port back to 3979 13:22:45 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:1982:a4ba:bda8:47da] has joined #openttd 13:22:48 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:23:05 <Ammler> and you changed the cfg while openttd was down? 13:23:14 <PeterT> yes 13:24:31 <PeterT> I just changed server_port to 3980 again, and when I did ./openttd -D, it changed it back to 3979 in the config 13:24:40 <PeterT> maybe 3980 is also being used O_o 13:25:00 <Alberth> did you change the 3978 port too? 13:25:22 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn14-2-0-cust562.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:25:26 <PeterT> No, I haven't touched 3978, I think? 13:25:28 <Alberth> perhaps that one doesn't work, and then the program uses the default values again 13:25:38 <PeterT> I just tried 3985 13:25:40 <glx> you can't change 3978 in the config 13:26:36 <Ammler> and you are sure, there is no openttd running somewhere else? 13:26:42 <Ammler> ps ax | grep openttd 13:26:59 <PeterT> 3778 pts/1 S+ 2:39 ./openttd -D -g save/Earth Multi 2.sav 13:26:59 <PeterT> 11829 pts/0 S+ 0:00 grep --color=auto openttd 13:27:31 <Ammler> and that openttd runs on 3979? 13:28:04 <PeterT> http://www.openttd.org/en/server/27870 <-- yes 13:28:23 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B337.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 13:29:06 <Ammler> maybe it is because you use ! in front of server name... 13:29:33 <PeterT> Oh, you're one of them 13:29:49 <OwenS> OpenTTD really ought to use a sort function which ignores punctuation for it's server list... 13:30:26 <Alberth> no use, people will use letters instead 13:30:47 <Ammler> then you will have aaaaaaaBestServer 13:31:07 <Alberth> or 00000000000000PickMe 13:31:11 <OwenS> OK. How about this sort func: (int) rand()? :P 13:31:18 <PeterT> OwenS: Way to go, now my problem will never be solve 13:31:20 *** ptr [~peter@90-227-166-229-no72.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:31:21 <PeterT> +d 13:31:23 <andythenorth> Terkhen: fancy running another FIRS test? 13:31:38 <Ammler> PeterT: do they share same cfg? 13:31:43 <PeterT> No 13:31:49 <PeterT> they aren't even on the same user 13:31:52 <OwenS> (Hmm, no need for cast; rand returns a signed int :-) ) 13:31:54 <Alberth> OwenS: that function is not transitive 13:32:24 <Alberth> OwenS: a<b and b<c should imply a<c 13:32:29 <OwenS> Alberth: I'm aware of that. I'm also aware MS screwed up by using it to randomly sort their browser ballot screen ;-) 13:32:59 <OwenS> OK, sort function of (server->randNum); :P. Or even by IP address :p 13:33:52 <Ammler> hmm, I can confirm -D ip:port doesn't work here either 13:34:04 <PeterT> That's a start 13:34:37 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc3f1a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:34:40 <PeterT> seems like OpenTTD (no matter what it says in the config) uses the default port 13:35:45 <andythenorth> @seen pikka 13:35:45 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 23 hours, 27 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <Pikka> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ReadingPatchVariables variable 13 :) 13:36:10 *** fjb is now known as Guest1641 13:36:12 *** fjb [~frank@p5485B19F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:36:36 <Ammler> but ./openttd -D -c test.cfg works 13:36:54 <Ammler> cp openttd.cfg test.cfg and change the port 13:37:19 * andythenorth tries to figure out using tile slope detection to draw quarry sprites 13:37:50 <PeterT> No, it doesn't work for me 13:38:11 <Ammler> it might be possible -D ip:port works only with ip addresses mentioned in the server_bind_addresses seciont 13:38:47 <PeterT> dbg: [net] Detected broadcast addresses: 13:38:47 <PeterT> dbg: [net] 0) 127.0.0.1 13:38:47 <PeterT> dbg: [net] 1) 95.211.11.24 13:38:51 <PeterT> Which is ok 13:39:27 <Ammler> could you paste your cfg... 13:39:56 <PeterT> Through SSH? 13:40:12 <Ammler> ssh? 13:40:22 <Ammler> well, the network section 13:40:27 <Ammler> and the addresses section 13:40:45 <PeterT> http://paste.openttd.org/225314 13:41:02 <PeterT> what addresses section? 13:41:43 *** jano [~Miranda@195.91.56.56] has joined #openttd 13:42:26 <jano> hi 13:43:03 <jano> i am trying to compile openttd by myself 13:43:18 <jano> what exactly is in package named "openttd useful"? 13:43:21 <jano> do i need it? 13:43:22 *** Guest1641 [~frank@p5485C741.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:43:50 <jano> i dont want do download unecessary things because i have only mobile internet connection 13:43:54 <Terkhen> andythenorth: okay, but using the patch is really easy to do them :P 13:44:04 <PeterT> jano: It has the things needed to compile OpenTTD 13:44:10 <andythenorth> Terkhen: ok, maybe I should compile that :) 13:44:17 <PeterT> Ammler: anything wrong with it? 13:44:41 <jano> PeterT: zlib, libpng, freetype ...? 13:45:15 <PeterT> jano: if you don't want want * compression, don't get zlib. If you don't want to make png screenshots, don't get libpng 13:45:38 <PeterT> but then you have to remove the preprocessor definitions for those files 13:46:03 <PeterT> jano: if you are tight on space, MSVC is definately _not_ the way to go 13:46:14 <Ammler> [14:40] <PeterT> what addresses section? <-- [server_bind_addresses] 13:46:21 <OwenS> WTF. Who sents a website invitation to a fricking mailing list?! 13:46:42 <PeterT> Ammler: no such section? 13:46:57 <Ammler> then add it and try again 13:47:03 <andythenorth> town index goes to 255? 13:47:17 <jano> PeterT: i already have VS2008Express and DirectX SDK 13:47:32 <Ammler> entry could be 0.0.0.0 13:47:35 <PeterT> Ok 13:47:35 <PeterT> thanks 13:47:46 <Ammler> or you can specify you prefered ip 13:48:12 <PeterT> I thought server_bind_ip = 95.211.11.24 would be that 13:48:23 <Ammler> if that works, you might report a fs 13:48:43 <Ammler> that is depreciated since ipv6 support 13:48:57 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B337.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:49:09 <PeterT> It doesn't work 13:49:21 <PeterT> for some reason, it keeps trying for 3979 13:49:36 <Ammler> and that is a unpatched clean 0.7.5 server? 13:49:42 <PeterT> No, patched 13:49:52 <PeterT> Why would that make a difference? 13:50:10 <Ammler> try with clean please 13:50:21 <PeterT> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=857750#p857750 13:50:53 <Ammler> just try with unpatched trunk, if it fails report again... 13:51:33 <Ammler> that is the way you have to go with every issue, btw. 13:53:54 * andythenorth ponders different some pseudo-random values 13:55:17 <andythenorth> hmm 13:55:32 <andythenorth> town index might be pseudo-random enough to distribute industry closures 13:55:55 <andythenorth> the other three things I'm currently doing might be redundant 13:56:11 <Hirundo> What's so non-random about the normal random bits? 13:57:16 <andythenorth> there's no 'spread'... 13:57:29 <andythenorth> hmm 13:57:44 <andythenorth> it's slightly complicated by trying to have two different kinds of industry closing behaviour 13:58:15 <andythenorth> industry random bits should work for large slices. 13:59:03 <andythenorth> Hirundo: here is a better explanation: I don't want true random, I want random as people often think it should be: evenly distributed 13:59:05 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-199-96.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 13:59:08 <andythenorth> i.e. pseudo-random 13:59:09 <PeterT> Ammler: works with clean trunk 13:59:17 <PeterT> Ammler: not trunk, clean 0.7.5 13:59:23 <PeterT> Ammler: Something in the patch :-( 13:59:55 <Hirundo> Is the number of towns on the map available to the grf? 14:00:12 <andythenorth> the town index is 14:00:12 <PeterT> Ammler: + _settings_client.network.server_port=3979+goalID; 14:00:19 <PeterT> Damn game! 14:01:08 <Hirundo> You may get into trouble with small maps (<256^2) or very few towns 14:01:28 <andythenorth> hmm 14:01:32 <andythenorth> your right 14:01:42 <andythenorth> town index + industry random bits should do it 14:01:49 *** ptr [~peter@90-227-166-229-no72.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 14:01:54 <andythenorth> if that doesn't work, I give up 14:03:44 <andythenorth> if some grf-local global storage was available, I could stop dicking around with a near-impossible task 14:05:17 <Ammler> now I wonder why -D didn't work on my server 14:05:22 <Hirundo> How many random bits are available? 32? 14:05:47 <frosch123> 16 iirc 14:05:56 <andythenorth> In the industry? It's a dword, with random in three of the bytes, trigger in the other 14:06:02 <frosch123> and some pseudorandom 14:06:29 <andythenorth> I am going by spec, not code - I could be wrong 14:06:34 <andythenorth> var 5F 14:06:38 <frosch123> the last byte of 5f is zero for industries :) 14:06:54 <Hirundo> 8 per tile and 16 per industry, according to http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=RandomAction2 14:07:23 <andythenorth> how about a dword for an industry that was guaranteed to be unique? 14:07:36 <andythenorth> hmmm....industries must have some kind of instance ID in game? 14:07:42 <Hirundo> Why does it *have* to be unique? 14:07:55 <andythenorth> to prevent two industries closing in the same month 14:08:19 <frosch123> isn't that silly on a map with hundreds of industries? 14:08:36 <andythenorth> two industries of same type might make sense 14:08:58 <andythenorth> two industries of different types - definitely silly :) 14:09:56 <frosch123> andythenorth: imo the task is best solved by making the random production change callback depend on number of industries instead of map size 14:10:21 *** jano [~Miranda@195.91.56.56] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 14:10:44 <andythenorth> frosch123: so instead of the industry trying to decided closure on a ticker, we wait for the game to come by at some random point? 14:10:54 <frosch123> depending on an absolute number of industries is just as wrong as doing the same amount of random changes independent whether there are 10 or 1000 industries 14:11:12 <andythenorth> hmm 14:11:16 <andythenorth> random might work. 14:11:42 <andythenorth> that's what the random production change cb is *supposed* to be for :) 14:11:58 <frosch123> random production change callback should work well for industry closure unless you have very few industries on a big map 14:12:26 <frosch123> e.g. starting 2048x2048 with no industries just causes havoc currently :p 14:12:32 <andythenorth> ok....so I have two cases. 14:12:50 <andythenorth> The first is industries that should wait a certain time for no cargo, then go 'BOOM' very quickly 14:13:02 <andythenorth> I think that is nearly handled by the pseudo-random nonsense I have coded 14:13:23 <andythenorth> Preventing two closing in one month is just a gameplay optimisation in that case. 14:13:28 <andythenorth> it looks nicer 14:13:59 <andythenorth> The second case is preventing the mass wave of closures of other secondary industry five years into game 14:14:16 <andythenorth> I think that the random production change cb + a protection period should cover that 14:14:28 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 14:14:28 <andythenorth> again, the two-in-one-month is an optimisation 14:15:29 <andythenorth> So likely there is no problem here - except for the scaling of the random production change cb with number of industries 14:15:40 *** APTX_ [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:16:30 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@lust.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:18:22 *** gathers [~gathers@c80-216-140-48.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 14:22:07 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@CPE-58-173-248-50.szxn1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 14:23:37 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 14:25:25 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-19-44.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 14:25:34 <andythenorth> hi Pikka 14:27:06 <andythenorth> frosch123: I imagine we can't move actual industry closure (deletion) from the monthly loop to the daily loop? 14:28:04 <frosch123> the random production change is in the daily loop 14:28:06 <PeterT> Ammler: I fixed it 14:28:30 <andythenorth> frosch123: my suggested change wouldn't work anywya 14:28:32 <frosch123> the monthly cb is on 1st, which is very much expected by certain grfs 14:28:38 <andythenorth> yup 14:28:54 <andythenorth> I was proposing moving the code that does the deletion from map 14:29:04 <PeterT> had to change _settings.network.server_port 14:29:29 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s5591a1ba.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 14:29:47 * andythenorth hmmms 14:30:28 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r19481 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Turn _industry_counts into a static member of Industry. 14:31:27 <andythenorth> if (i->prod_level == PRODLEVEL_CLOSURE) { delete i }; could be moved to end of ChangeIndustryProduction? 14:31:27 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:31:45 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 14:32:02 *** ptr [~peter@90-227-166-229-no72.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 14:33:37 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:34:25 <Pikka> hi andythenorth 14:35:59 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:37:26 <Ammler> PeterT: I hope you learned from it, I had too :-) 14:38:33 <PeterT> Oh yes 14:38:37 <PeterT> I learned how to "code" 14:38:52 <PeterT> and to try things with a non-patched version 14:39:01 <PeterT> and to explain the _entire_ situation 14:41:32 *** JVassie_ [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:42:33 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:47:08 *** James [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:47:43 *** James is now known as Guest1648 14:49:17 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@CPE-58-173-248-50.szxn1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 14:54:00 *** JVassie_ [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:56:28 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:00:30 *** Guest1648 [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:04:18 *** KritiK_ [~Maxim@95-24-83-56.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 15:04:50 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-199-96.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:04:59 *** KritiK_ is now known as KritiK 15:14:24 * andythenorth wonders why setting industry special flag 1 (cut trees) causes the game to blow up? 15:14:38 * andythenorth experiments 15:15:00 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:16:55 <Alberth> OpenTTD is made of trees 15:18:12 <andythenorth> Assertion failed at line 79 of /Users/andy/Documents/workspace/OTTD/trunk/src/industry_map.h: IsTileType(t, MP_INDUSTRY) 15:18:28 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:19:14 <andythenorth> hmmm 15:21:18 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/industrychangesdependoncountinsteadmapsize.diff <- would that improve behaviour? 15:21:44 <dih> \o/ 15:21:47 <dih> new saxophone mic 15:21:52 <dih> new saxophone mouth piece 15:21:55 <dih> :-) 15:23:38 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: alberth * r19482 /trunk/src/ (town_cmd.cpp tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp vehicle_cmd.cpp): -Doc: Doxygen additions/updates. 15:24:55 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-mlimmlgw1-ff1ec000-127.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 15:25:56 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 15:27:26 <andythenorth> hmm 15:28:09 <frosch123> andythenorth: let me guess, it happens for industries where the north tile is not an industry tile 15:28:25 <andythenorth> possibly 15:28:34 <andythenorth> no 15:28:43 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF89DE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:28:47 <frosch123> ChopLumberMillTrees checks whether the north tile is completeted before chopping 15:29:03 <frosch123> which asserts if that tile does not actually belong to the industry 15:29:36 <andythenorth> FIRS has nothing to handle industry construction stages...could the two be related? 15:30:22 <andythenorth> scrub that 15:30:41 <andythenorth> I've found a layout that has no tile for xy location 00 00 15:30:44 <frosch123> hmm, no. i mean you specified an industry to chop trees which has no tile at offset (0,0) of the layout 15:30:59 <andythenorth> yup what you just said 15:31:13 <andythenorth> well that was fun 15:31:19 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: alberth * r19483 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: Code layout fixes, and parentheses reduction. 15:31:39 <andythenorth> frosch123 I was considering setting every secondary industry to chop trees as a way of avoiding the location check 15:32:08 <andythenorth> :P 15:32:31 <frosch123> you should do that for industries before 1930 or so 15:32:34 <planetmaker> loool 15:32:50 <planetmaker> the baker baking bread stright from the ground-down pine tree 15:32:58 <planetmaker> tasty 15:33:10 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: alberth * r19484 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Rename parameter 'x' of CalcBridgeLenCostFactor() to 'length'. 15:33:11 <andythenorth> frosch123: I'm stuck :| What would you do: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/wrong_footed_by_industry_location_code 15:33:35 <andythenorth> If I make the wrong decision, I end up having to rework my code (due to the game being improved) 15:34:28 <frosch123> i cannot remember the old discussions about distributing cargo to multiple industries 15:35:11 <andythenorth> Rubidium doesn't like the idea. 15:37:23 <andythenorth> I was hoping to get a 0.1 release of FIRS soon, but I'm blocked by this. All code dies, but ideally not too soon :) 15:37:37 * andythenorth feels like having an OzTrans moment 15:38:28 <andythenorth> specifically, if Yexo's patch for AcceptSameCargo is going in trunk, then I know I can use cb14B safely 15:39:09 <planetmaker> andythenorth: a quick check shows that your hedges fix seems to improve the situation. 15:39:23 <andythenorth> screenie? 15:39:30 <frosch123> but isn't that code exactly what you need to prevent industry clusters :p 15:39:38 <planetmaker> not yet :-) I'm just cross-checking 15:39:59 <andythenorth> frosch123: the 14 tile check? no 15:40:26 <andythenorth> it's in the right direction, but it's the wrong approach. Yexo showed a better patch for that based on tile checks. 15:41:12 <andythenorth> I guess I should separate my problems. 15:41:25 <andythenorth> I have one problem for FIRS dev where I just need to know which gamble to take 15:41:45 <andythenorth> And I have conceptual / gameplay / usability dislikes of the way the secondary industry check is done, full stop :) 15:41:58 <andythenorth> Whether FIRS exists or not, that check is just wrong 15:43:55 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:44:22 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 15:45:56 <andythenorth> frosch123: I'll compile your patch and test 15:46:08 <andythenorth> I'll have to modify my nfo so it might be a little while ;) 15:47:14 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has joined #openttd 15:47:57 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:52:33 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/621/zoom_hedges.png <-- andythenorth 15:52:57 <andythenorth> it's better 15:52:59 <andythenorth> ship it :) 15:53:25 <planetmaker> do you want your full name shipped? 15:53:42 <planetmaker> in the credits (dunno, are you there already?) 15:54:53 <planetmaker> nvm, you are 15:59:35 <andythenorth> I am :) 16:02:05 *** JVassie_ [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:06:55 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:07:34 *** Zuu [~Zuu@82.99.0.36] has joined #openttd 16:12:01 <planetmaker> submitted 16:12:43 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:16:55 *** JVassie_ [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:16:59 <andythenorth> frosch123 et al http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=47685&p=865718#p865718 16:29:57 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd 16:31:20 *** JVassie_ [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:35:06 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 16:37:24 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:38:27 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc3f1a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:43:56 *** davis [~b@p5B28BBE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:45:36 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: alberth * r19485 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Re-implement CalcBridgeLenCostFactor() in a more readable way without changing computed costs. 16:47:19 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: alberth * r19486 /trunk/src/ (autoreplace.cpp tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Code style, move var declarations closer to their first use. 16:53:29 <OwenS> I'm tempted to design an absolutely insidious device which takes IP packets and fragments them maximally (I.e. turns an N byte packet into N 1 byte fragments), then transmits them in random order 16:53:59 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: alberth * r19487 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Removed non-reachable return statement. 16:55:01 <Alberth> OwenS: too predictable, send some bigger packets too :) 16:55:45 <OwenS> Alberth: The idea is to make the connection work, but work really badly. Fragmenting a ~1000 byte packet into 1000 chunks is gonna A) mean 95% overhead and B) Mean insane packet loss 17:00:43 <Noldo> why don't you just drop and delay randomly 17:00:53 * andythenorth decides the sky is not falling, and fixes some trivial bugs, (and compiles the production change patch) 17:03:57 <OwenS> Noldo: Because fragmenting things to silly levels is more fun and insidious 17:06:36 *** Zuu [~Zuu@82.99.0.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:07:31 *** ptr [~peter@90-227-166-229-no72.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 17:08:28 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: alberth * r19488 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Use last_error data for removal in CmdRailTrackHelper() as well. 17:10:28 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: alberth * r19489 /trunk/src/vehicle_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Introduce a had_success variable in SendAllVehiclesToDepot(). 17:13:12 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: alberth * r19490 /trunk/src/terraform_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Return to old behaviour of CmdLevelLand() by keeping track of last error. 17:14:38 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: alberth * r19491 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Keep track of last error in CmdRemoveLongRoad(). 17:19:28 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: alberth * r19492 /trunk/src/landscape.cpp: -Codechange: Keep track of last error in CmdClearArea(). 17:22:27 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: alberth * r19493 /trunk/src/vehicle_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Keep track of last error in CmdDepotSellAllVehicles(). 17:24:05 *** davis_ [~b@p5B28A302.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:24:47 *** ptr_ [~peter@90-227-166-229-no72.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 17:27:04 *** Zuu [~Zuu@82.99.0.36] has joined #openttd 17:29:20 *** ptr [~peter@90-227-166-229-no72.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:29:20 *** ptr_ is now known as ptr 17:30:40 *** davis [~b@p5B28BBE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:32:16 *** Bobbysepp [~Bobbysepp@c-98-225-53-32.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 17:40:12 *** ptr_ [~peter@90-227-166-229-no72.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 17:40:12 *** ptr [~peter@90-227-166-229-no72.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:40:12 *** ptr_ is now known as ptr 17:43:48 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-83-56.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 17:45:27 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 17:46:16 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-83-56.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 17:58:38 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: alberth * r19494 /trunk/src/ (21 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Remove _error_message. 18:03:01 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-144-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:05:13 <PeterT> can parameters be combined, for example "./openttd -DMg 'savegame'" 18:07:52 <planetmaker> ./openttd -D -g blubber.sav 18:08:14 <PeterT> I know 18:08:16 <PeterT> but you can 18:08:19 <PeterT> *can't 18:08:25 <PeterT> combine them, like I've shown above? 18:08:31 <planetmaker> try it. 18:08:50 <planetmaker> faster than asking ;-) 18:09:45 <PeterT> Nope - you cannot 18:12:32 <andythenorth> these are nice sprites 18:12:33 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=47655 18:13:50 <frosch123> and why did petert still not volunteer for coding it? 18:14:39 *** aber [~Adium@p5B325D6F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:15:11 <andythenorth> he 18:15:48 <PeterT> oh, so THAT's what you were talking about! 18:16:19 <andythenorth> should I just try and patch this industry check thing. you guys can see it's driving me nuts. 18:16:28 <andythenorth> I hate patching without knowing what I'm doing :| 18:16:54 <PeterT> frosch123: I can't code GRFs 18:17:02 <PeterT> frosch123: correction, I don't know how to 18:17:09 <andythenorth> PeterT: I wasn't exactly born coding grfs 18:17:12 <PeterT> I probably could, if I had the time and patience 18:17:13 <andythenorth> oh you corrected yourself :) 18:17:42 <PeterT> andythenorth: how did you get started? 18:17:51 <andythenorth> I forgt 18:17:56 <andythenorth> forget /s 18:18:34 <andythenorth> I think zephyris gave me an nfo for HEQS...so that I could tweak sprite offsets in his code. 18:18:47 <andythenorth> Then I ended up coding the rest of the whole thing :P 18:19:10 <andythenorth> PeterT Pikka wiki is your friend to get started 18:19:16 <PeterT> Pikkawiki? 18:19:19 <PeterT> not the ttdpatch wiki? 18:19:20 <andythenorth> google it 18:19:33 <PeterT> I know what it is, silly andythenorth 18:19:41 <andythenorth> I learnt the basics by formatting and commenting an uncommented and unformatted nfo 18:20:55 <andythenorth> that was two years ago. now there is a lot more commented nfo around to learn from 18:21:03 *** George [~George@212.113.107.216] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:21:08 <andythenorth> and a lot of it is GPL so you can borrow from it 18:21:34 <PeterT> I don't even know the difference between an action and a callback 18:21:58 <andythenorth> learn by doing... 18:22:02 <Ammler> simply don't use things you don't know for start... 18:22:10 <andythenorth> just make a train appear. 18:22:12 <andythenorth> PeterT: 18:22:15 <andythenorth> oops 18:22:17 <Ammler> you can make quite a lot without cbs 18:22:30 <andythenorth> use the BROS teaser I coded...it's on the devzone 18:22:33 <PeterT> I wouldn't know, because I don't know what they are 18:22:35 <planetmaker> callbacks are only necessary, if you really want to do the advanced things 18:22:49 <andythenorth> BROS teaser is simple, one engine. 18:23:04 <PeterT> I'll look at that 18:23:04 <planetmaker> good starter then :-) ^ 18:23:20 <andythenorth> hmmm 18:23:22 <andythenorth> I'm wrong 18:23:23 <planetmaker> Or look at the logic engine by Ammler 18:23:32 <andythenorth> maybe I only have the BROS teaser locally :o 18:23:34 <planetmaker> that's one engine only, too 18:23:44 <planetmaker> maybe not even sprites, dunno 18:23:44 <PeterT> andythenorth: the GRF is available on the devzone 18:23:55 <PeterT> andythenorth: I can decode it, I'm re-installing GRFCodec 18:24:10 <planetmaker> Also install nforenum. Quite important 18:24:24 <PeterT> I'll make a C:\Coding folder 18:24:52 <planetmaker> I'd recommend a mingw/msys environment for the sake of makefiles ;-) 18:25:00 <andythenorth> bros teaser has a fricking error in it <embarassed> 18:25:03 <PeterT> Yes, I have MSYS 18:25:20 <PeterT> don't know if I have the libraries needed though 18:26:22 <andythenorth> PeterT: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/BROS-teaser.zip 18:27:21 <PeterT> downloaded, andy 18:28:22 <andythenorth> that's a grf setup in the coop style 18:28:29 <andythenorth> uses a make file and a certain folder structure 18:28:41 <andythenorth> it's faster to develop, but there are more dependencies 18:28:45 <planetmaker> hehe :-) 18:29:01 <PeterT> How does the code "know" where the sprites are located in relative to the size of the picture? 18:29:15 <PeterT> For example: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&p=865739#p865739 18:29:17 <andythenorth> got an nfo file open? 18:29:22 <PeterT> Not yet 18:29:53 <andythenorth> get the BROS teaser, then sprites/nfo/class20.pnfo 18:30:25 <PeterT> why does Notepad++ highlight everything in black for .nfo files? :/ 18:31:54 <PeterT> 2 * 32 00 00 \b12 01 20 // Action 0 18:32:05 <PeterT> So you've told me that this shows Action 0, andythenorth 18:34:05 <andythenorth> yup 18:35:14 <andythenorth> action 0 defines properties 18:36:12 <andythenorth> further down there is an action 4 for the name text 18:36:38 <andythenorth> then an action 1 which defines 1 set of 8 'real' sprites 18:36:50 <andythenorth> then the action 2 and action 3 18:37:17 <andythenorth> that's it for a normal vehicle 18:37:46 <andythenorth> if you can get it building, you can try making changes 18:39:43 <PeterT> Ok. 18:40:01 <PeterT> what does "-1" mean? 18:40:08 <PeterT> in "-1 sprites/diesels/class20.pcx 04 01 01 20 8 -3 -10 18:40:08 <PeterT> " 18:41:10 <andythenorth> it's a placeholder for the sprite number, nforenum turns it into the correct number 18:41:23 <andythenorth> compare bros-teaser.nfo 18:41:36 <PeterT> no pfno? 18:41:48 <andythenorth> no 18:42:11 <PeterT> Oh, I see 18:42:33 <andythenorth> pnfo is what we use for coop style build environments. it uses the c preprocessor to template nfo files 18:42:47 <PeterT> is the "compression" always 01? 18:42:52 <andythenorth> dunno 18:43:06 <andythenorth> well, I do know 18:43:15 <PeterT> can I delete __MACOSX? 18:43:18 <planetmaker> it's not. But it's nothing to worry about initially too much 18:43:20 <andythenorth> yes 18:43:31 <andythenorth> sorry I should have cleaned the zip 18:43:32 <planetmaker> (referring to compression) 18:43:54 <PeterT> Alright, give me a minute while I set this up: http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=GRF_coding#What_you_will_need 18:45:28 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/wiki/Getting_started_on_Win <-- I can also recommend that ;) 18:45:31 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r19495 /trunk/src/lang/ (esperanto.txt luxembourgish.txt polish.txt): 18:45:31 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:31 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: esperanto - 14 changes by kristjan 18:45:31 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: greek - 4 changes by 18:45:31 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 2 changes by 18:45:32 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 3 changes by Phreeze 18:45:32 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: polish - 1 changes by silver_777 18:45:46 <PeterT> Sure - if I ever need to make a FIRS-like GRF 18:46:00 <PeterT> Is it really necesarry to make a makefile for such test GRFs? 18:46:03 <andythenorth> no 18:46:17 <andythenorth> I think it's better to learn without the make file 18:46:26 <andythenorth> then you appreciate the make file more :) 18:46:27 <planetmaker> ^ probably good, yes 18:46:32 <planetmaker> hehe 18:46:34 <andythenorth> and you know what the tools are doing 18:46:42 <planetmaker> ^ that's the important part 18:47:07 <planetmaker> anyway... party time! :-) See you tomorrow 18:47:12 <andythenorth> enjoy 18:47:51 <PeterT> Have fun, planetmaker 18:48:16 <planetmaker> ty, I will :-) 18:50:15 <PeterT> andythenorth: Is commenting available in the same format as C++ code? 18:50:22 <PeterT> for example: 18:50:39 <PeterT> if (IHaveAHorse) /* It will eat grass */ 18:53:45 <frosch123> when using pnfo you it is the same, plain nfo only knows // 18:54:22 <PeterT> Will NFORenum take care of that? 18:54:28 <PeterT> covert the /* to // 18:54:51 <frosch123> no, the c preprocesser removes them 18:54:56 <andythenorth> stick to // 18:54:59 <PeterT> Oh 18:55:05 <andythenorth> easier 18:55:19 <andythenorth> nfo rarely benefits from massive comments :) 18:55:38 <andythenorth> it's so limited that it's surprisingly readable once you are used to it 18:55:58 <andythenorth> most things follow the same structure / pattern 18:56:19 <andythenorth> also, there's almost *no* room for code (design) style choices 18:56:31 <andythenorth> you can format different ways, but mostly there is one way to do something and that's it 18:56:55 <PeterT> got it 18:57:13 <andythenorth> so fewer style decisions = easier coding, and reading 18:57:33 <PeterT> andythenorth: Yes, you were born being able to code 18:57:51 *** George [~George@212.113.107.216] has joined #openttd 18:58:07 <andythenorth> no I was born being able to build Lego, everything else just followed from that 18:58:17 <Terkhen> :D 18:58:47 <andythenorth> nfo is a bit like this: http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=3087400 18:59:22 <Hirundo> That's nice stuff :) 18:59:27 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:59:39 <glx> that's crazy 18:59:47 <andythenorth> coding FIRS is a bit like building this monster, only I keep running out of the pieces I need :| 18:59:47 <andythenorth> http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=3054193 19:00:37 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc3f1a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:01:16 <Terkhen> andythenorth: the missing pieces are always at the end of the box or inside whatever your brother is building 19:01:36 <andythenorth> nowadays the missing pieces are here: http://www.bricklink.com/ 19:01:53 <PeterT> That isn't hard to build - it just requires good instructions :-P 19:02:10 <PeterT> andythenorth: so I have GRFCodec and NFORenum 19:02:13 <PeterT> anything missing? 19:02:13 <andythenorth> PeterT: no instructions... 19:02:22 <andythenorth> PeterT: no 19:02:35 <andythenorth> I have no idea how you use them on windows though :0 19:02:54 <Terkhen> nice :P 19:02:57 <PeterT> make a shortcut to cmd.exe and run grfcodec there 19:03:56 <OwenS> andythenorth: Speaking of Lego, http://www.mocpages.com/moc.php/105459 is very impressive 19:04:32 <andythenorth> OwenS: indeed 19:04:45 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF89DE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:04:50 <OwenS> One of the most atmospheric things I've ever seen made out of ABS 19:11:41 <andythenorth> hmm 19:12:03 <andythenorth> how to test the random cb patch by frosch123 .... 19:12:17 <PeterT> andythenorth: do I move grfcodec.exe to the folder in which the GRF I am (de)-coding the GRF? 19:12:23 <PeterT> or can I just ../path/to/exe 19:12:45 <andythenorth> :o 19:12:56 <andythenorth> can't remember. That's what using a make file does to your skills 19:13:10 <andythenorth> Think you can just path to it 19:13:15 <frosch123> path to exe is fine, but you need to be in the correct working directory 19:13:28 <andythenorth> think you can path to the grf as well 19:13:39 <frosch123> the paths to the .pcx in nfo are relative to the working directory, not relative to the location of the .nfo 19:14:24 <PeterT> I'll do ../path.exe -e ./grf 19:15:03 <OwenS> Hmm... How would I go about defining a new spirite? 19:15:16 <OwenS> (is there some documentation out there?) 19:15:24 <frosch123> what? 19:15:30 <andythenorth> frosch123: if I've understood your code correctly, the map size is no longer a factor for random prod. change cb? 19:15:51 <andythenorth> so it doesn't matter what size map I test? 19:16:05 <frosch123> andythenorth: for sane number of industries the mapsize has no influence, only if there are very few industries 19:16:20 <andythenorth> that's an edge case :) 19:16:51 <OwenS> (Or, in other words: Whats the correct way for a patch to introduce a new sprite?) 19:16:54 <frosch123> well, pick a reasonable size such as 256x256, 64x64 will likely cause trouble with firs. but i guess you know that :) 19:17:01 <Zuu> PeterT: Why don't you put the exe in your PATH? 19:17:08 <frosch123> OwenS: what sprite, you mean some new gui icon? 19:17:13 <andythenorth> frosch123: wonder what counts as 'working' for this though? 19:17:18 <PeterT> Zuu: too many things in PATH 19:17:29 <OwenS> frosch123: Well, I need to add a couple of icons, plus a couple which are displayed on the map (new signal type) 19:17:44 <OwenS> (I guess I'm gonna have to learn rudimentary NFO too :P ) 19:17:52 <Zuu> Well you could always add another string to path or have something like c:\bin for random stuff. 19:18:33 <frosch123> for icons checkout svn://svn.openttd.org/extra/ottd_grf 19:18:43 <frosch123> and append them at the end of the ottd gui section 19:18:59 <OwenS> Or rather http://git.openttd.org/openttd/extra/ottd_grf.git/ ;-P 19:19:28 <andythenorth> I guess if industry closure seems 'ok', it's working, and it seems 'stupid' it's not working.... 19:19:53 <PeterT> <DorpsGek> CompileFarm: nightly:windows::win32 (r19495) failed. D: 19:22:16 <PeterT> Zuu: if I add it to PATH, will it look recursivly? 19:22:39 <PeterT> for example if I add /Coding/ 19:22:49 <PeterT> will it look in /Coding/grfcodec also? 19:22:51 <Zuu> I don't think so, but I haven't tried. 19:23:00 <frosch123> andythenorth: of course you need to use the random change callback for closures :) 19:23:37 <Zuu> You have to try that in order to know if it works or not or find some documentation. 19:23:53 <Alberth> PeterT: make 1 bin directory, and put everything there. Alternatively, use a softlink (if that works with windows) 19:24:05 <PeterT> Good idea 19:24:28 <andythenorth> frosch123: seems like the game would run the random change cb anyway? I just have to choose if I want to explicitly handle it? 19:25:12 <frosch123> oh, and the diff directly affects the number of industry creations 19:29:39 <OwenS> Gaah! I'm looking for signal icons... they're just teh diagonal graphics... 19:30:07 <Zuu> PeterT: Another posibility that you have is to create bash aliases that include the full search path to programs if you use bash in Windows. 19:30:40 <PeterT> I have no idea what that means 19:30:52 <Zuu> you got linux/ubuntu right? 19:31:02 <PeterT> Windows 19:31:08 <PeterT> Well - I have it 19:31:22 <Zuu> The command line prompt you use there is most likely bash. 19:31:22 <PeterT> I'm under Windows though 19:31:40 <Zuu> If you use msys/cygwin then you use bash in there usually. 19:32:11 <Zuu> But if you have set up PATH so it include the msys/cygwin bin folder you can just type bash inside your cmd-window and get bash in there. 19:32:24 <Zuu> Edit your ~/.bashrc and add aliases etc. 19:32:34 <Zuu> change to vi edit mode if you prefer that etc. 19:32:54 <andythenorth> PeterT: you'll figure it out. I used a crazy mac->wine setup for about a year :) 19:33:03 <Zuu> make aliases to turn on color output for cd grep etc. by default. 19:34:21 <OwenS> If only all work was as easy as recolouring some signals :p 19:34:44 <PeterT> Sure 19:39:08 <Alberth> Zuu: just install Linux :p 19:39:15 <Zuu> hehe 19:39:27 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd 19:40:06 <Zuu> Then you got to fiddle with other stuff instead. 19:41:59 <Alberth> wouldn't know, I never tried using windows for anything serious. 19:43:48 <Zuu> I think it is good that I've been using linux seriously for about 2-3 years so I know the gnu tools not like an expert but still not too bad. Taking what's good from Linux and use it in Windows is in my option a good thing to do if you use Windows. 19:45:51 <Alberth> yeah, but you end up with problems from both windows and unix, not the best combination. 19:46:25 <OwenS> Hmm... I guess theres no way to tell from one of the openttd[wd].grf nfo files which sprite belongs to which number in the PCX? 19:46:40 <Alberth> ie windows used to freak out if you gave it a 10 line input command 19:47:09 <Alberth> and you had to convince the scripts to use c:\ stuff 19:47:43 <Alberth> OwenS: by x/y position :) 19:47:53 <Alberth> there is also a table somewhere 19:48:52 <frosch123> you could also decode the build eopnttd[wd].grf with grf2html 19:49:12 <OwenS> frosch123: Yes, but would the numbers correspond? 19:49:16 <Alberth> src/table/sprites.h eg 19:49:20 <frosch123> why does my irc client always switch positions of letters 19:49:42 <frosch123> OwenS: the sprite numbers in the .pcx have no meaning at all 19:49:46 *** TrueBrain [~patric@145.118.72.132] has joined #openttd 19:49:52 <Alberth> TrueBrain ! 19:49:56 <frosch123> the only thing that matters are the pixel positions in the .nfo 19:49:57 <OwenS> frosch123: Yeah, I know, I was just hoping they'd be somewhere (even in a comment) t oassist :P 19:49:59 <Alberth> welcome 19:50:07 <PeterT> Hi TrueBrain 19:50:29 <PeterT> TrueBrain: Where does DorpsGek get the live-logs from the Compile farm? 19:50:53 <frosch123> dorpsgek and the farm are best friends 19:53:50 <TrueBrain> thank you Alberth :) Good to be back :) 19:54:23 <PeterT> Umm...hello? 19:54:24 <OwenS> OK, now all I need to figure out is what the " -1 * 0 05 15 99" line at the top of openttdgui.nfo does (I presume that I should be looking at action 0?) 19:55:05 <frosch123> no, 5 19:55:15 <OwenS> Aah, It's the 05 which is operative 19:55:30 <DaleStan> Remember to skip the "length". (Which NFORenum will also fix for you.) 19:57:54 <OwenS> I presume for a new signal type, "-1 * 0 05 0E (New signals) 32 X". where X is an offset I somehow determine (Presumably from the sprite table?) 19:58:06 <Alberth> andythenorth: http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/refer_to_close_industry_precisely.patch http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/too_close.png 19:58:28 <Alberth> I am not sure this is the direction to go 19:58:57 <frosch123> OwenS: new signals is not what you want 19:59:08 <frosch123> start with the gui sprites, that part is easier 19:59:54 <OwenS> frosch123: Heh. I'm currently trying to add sprites for code I've just written... 20:00:10 <frosch123> then use the existing pbs graphics 20:00:37 <frosch123> SPR_SIGNALS_BASE + offset 20:01:29 <Alberth> TrueBrain: thank you for the OpenDune blogs, it is so nice to read about how they do things. I really enjoy them. 20:02:06 <TrueBrain> :) I should only spend more time on OpenDUNE .. glx has more commits lately then I am :) 20:02:25 <glx> hehe 20:02:29 <TrueBrain> but yes, it is very nice, how Dune2 did shit .. or more: how they did it wrong :) 20:02:47 <glx> but I just do "easy" things 20:03:06 <Alberth> perhaps your commits are bigger 20:03:10 <TrueBrain> glx: voices? 20:03:13 <TrueBrain> music? 20:03:50 <glx> latest commits are just c-ification (without even naming the functions) 20:04:31 <glx> because even when the code becomes readable, I still don't get what it does :) 20:04:42 <OwenS> I like how Kate makes the word "HACK" red :P 20:04:56 <glx> OwenS: like TODO 20:05:06 <Alberth> how far are you with the c-ification? 20:05:13 <Alberth> OwenS: or XXX (vim does) 20:05:16 <glx> not far enough 20:05:23 <TrueBrain> 20% done 20:05:27 <TrueBrain> 1/5th ... not bad, I say 20:05:30 <OwenS> (Since using PBS graphics for a non PBS signal is hacky :P ) 20:05:31 <TrueBrain> 38% is named 20:05:40 <glx> and work on music/voices introduces many new things 20:07:10 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm173.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:07:19 <glx> my method is now "pick a function with no unresolved jumps/calls, c-ify, name if possible, loop" 20:07:37 <TrueBrain> and somehow I am in the same loop :p Just restricted to script functions 20:07:55 <glx> yeah I'm in unit functions ;) 20:08:37 <Zuu> Intresting, there is now about 40 people who has downloaded my AI library "SuperLib" without downloading CluelessPlus through bananas. As far as I know CluelessPlus is the only AI to use that library at the moment. :-p 20:08:50 <Zuu> (total download of them is about 400 each) 20:09:21 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 20:09:49 <TrueBrain> Zuu: people are strange, does that make me a stranger (8) 20:10:04 <glx> btw for an unknown reason my brain tends to convert sarw to * instead / ;) 20:10:20 <TrueBrain> glx: sar is just weird 20:11:22 <Alberth> Zuu: people download everything, my example stiarcase heightmap is downloaded 24046 times already 20:11:35 <Alberth> s/iar/air/ 20:11:42 <TrueBrain> we should allow rating of things, should thin that out a bit :) 20:12:18 <Alberth> we could have a heightmap compeition :) 20:12:31 <TrueBrain> mine will win 20:12:38 <Alberth> or 'heightmap of the week' 20:12:44 <TrueBrain> http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/mapgen/image006.png 20:12:47 <TrueBrain> this just looks AWESOME 20:13:00 <TrueBrain> http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/mapgen/image016.png 20:13:05 <TrueBrain> this just makes everyone horney 20:13:15 <Zuu> Alberth: Yep, though if they would download *everything* they would get both CluelessPlus and SuperLib :-) 20:13:16 <TrueBrain> http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/mapgen/image005.png 20:13:19 <TrueBrain> crashes every browser 20:13:20 <TrueBrain> MWHAHAHAHA 20:13:24 <Zuu> They were released at the same time. 20:13:44 <TrueBrain> http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/mapgen/image003.png 20:13:49 <TrueBrain> in case the 005 didn't crash your browser 20:14:13 <glx> 005 is loading ;) 20:14:19 <glx> but I have low BW 20:14:30 <TrueBrain> it is a 17 MiB PNG ... 20:14:33 <TrueBrain> the other is 24 MiB 20:15:04 <OwenS> sprite = SPR_SIGNALS_BASE + (type - 1) * 16 + variant * 64 + image + condition + (type > SIGTYPE_LAST_NOPBS ? 64 : 0); <-- Oh you've gotta be kidding me 20:15:10 <Zuu> TrueBrain: Does your server tell HTTP HEAD the correct size of it? Then one could use their custom HTTP cilent and check the size and survive. :-p 20:15:45 <glx> ha 005 is full world 20:15:47 <TrueBrain> Zuu: http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/mapgen/ 20:15:51 <TrueBrain> easier to see the size ;) 20:16:04 <Zuu> Not as fun as writing your own http client :-) 20:16:06 <TrueBrain> glx: yup :) On a pretty high resolution (not the highest, I can render bigger pictures :p) 20:16:22 <TrueBrain> Zuu: it just amazes me no browser has protection against such big images, but just start to load it 20:16:28 <TrueBrain> on linux, OOM comes and visit you 20:16:32 <TrueBrain> on Windows, it swaps to dead 20:16:38 <TrueBrain> I had the same with a 5 MiB XML file 20:17:17 <Zuu> yep, it could be used in a quite evil way I guess. 20:17:26 <Alberth> my ff survived :) 20:17:31 <glx> I have 4GB ram ;) 20:17:37 <Alberth> me too :) 20:18:05 <aber> me too, and i use OS X... 20:18:08 <Zuu> But then if you want to be evil you can give wrong size information in your http header. And still many dynamic pages do provide wrong size information there so browsers can't really rely on it beeing correct. 20:18:39 * OwenS replaces that line with a table lookup... 20:19:03 <aber> but wait, openttd is the game with superSizeScreenshots... try one of the 400MB files :) 20:20:01 <aber> dammit, now everyone knows i am a java developer... super_size_screenshot 20:20:28 <TrueBrain> our condolances 20:22:25 <PeterT> are those by chance created from the topic recently created in General Openttd? 20:23:20 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd665.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:23:55 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd665.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:25:14 <frosch123> damn, i clicked it :( 20:25:18 <OwenS> Is SIGTYPE_LAST_NOPBS used for anything other than looking up the right sprite? 20:25:34 <frosch123> though i actually read what it was :( 20:25:56 <TrueBrain> frosch123: warned you ... 20:27:05 <frosch123> yeah, what annoys be more is that i was not fast enough with killing it 20:27:32 <TrueBrain> and what annoys me, is that the OOM does not kill it 20:27:40 <TrueBrain> it kills everything, but not the process consuming 99% memory 20:28:50 <frosch123> luckily i was fast enough when ff wanted to restore the session :p 20:29:06 <TrueBrain> hehehehe 20:29:13 <TrueBrain> either way, I am sorry. It was kind of mean :) 20:29:20 <PeterT> <Zuu> Intresting, there is now about 40 people who has downloaded my AI library "SuperLib" without downloading CluelessPlus through bananas. As far as I know CluelessPlus is the only AI to use that library at the moment. :-p <-- The forum counters are broken, if that's what you were looking at 20:29:24 <TrueBrain> I remember I generated the image for the first time .... 20:29:31 <PeterT> Horribly, horribly broken 20:29:37 <frosch123> np, i has nothing unsafed open :) 20:29:57 <Zuu> PeterT: Nope, but at BaNaNaS. 20:30:02 <PeterT> Oh 20:30:51 <TrueBrain> Zuu: did it possibily happened that one of the two was still on the frontpage? 20:30:52 <fjb> Just reading back, what is so problematic about http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/mapgen/image003.png ? 20:31:02 <Alberth> OwenS: there seem to be 3 uses: http://paste.openttd.org/225326 20:31:12 <Zuu> You can see the download count there for the current version of any content. In the manager you can see it also for old versions of your own content. 20:31:22 <TrueBrain> fjb: either read the whole story, or stop showing off, it is no fun anymore :p 20:31:36 <andythenorth> Alberth: that patch puts one option on the list of fixes :) 20:31:49 <Zuu> TrueBrain: I think both were still at the front page today when I uploaded new versions, but I really didn't check. 20:31:54 <andythenorth> I think it's an improvement on current situation but not the right fix. 20:32:20 <andythenorth> what's a good way to design :| irc is a bit lame. normally I work with other developers on an A2 drawing board with a pencil :o 20:32:25 <TrueBrain> Zuu: either way, people are strange ;) 20:32:30 <Zuu> Yep 20:32:43 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: enough shared whiteboard on the internet 20:32:58 <Zuu> Unless we got many hidden AI devs. 20:33:02 <OwenS> Alberth: Hmm, this complicates things... I need it to behave not as PBS for cycling but as PBS for sprites 20:33:22 <fjb> TrueBrain: I wanted to avoid reading it all. Zhe png is awsome. 20:33:37 <TrueBrain> fjb: that, it is 20:33:48 <Alberth> andythenorth: yeah, unfortunately, I don't understand the problem enough to know what to do 20:34:02 <fjb> TrueBrain: But I get lost in it trying to find where I live. 20:34:23 <andythenorth> TrueBrain crashed my browser dammit :P 20:34:25 <Alberth> OwenS: perhaps make a new constant? 20:34:42 <andythenorth> oh no my browser was just slow :D 20:34:48 <andythenorth> rendered a large world map 20:35:11 <Alberth> andythenorth: not enough network bandwidth :) 20:35:11 <Zuu> night 20:35:16 *** Zuu [~Zuu@82.99.0.36] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:35:48 <OwenS> Alberth: New constant isn't enough (Can't compare against), so I'm removing SIGTYPE_LAST_PBS and adding a couple of inlines 20:36:01 * Alberth considers to writ an auto-responder for such people 20:37:35 <andythenorth> Alberth: what's the best way to help you understand the problem? 20:38:29 <Alberth> TrueBrain: how complicated is it to customize paste.openttd.org, so the 'diff' syntax highlighting is near the top of the drop-down? 20:38:48 <fjb> TrueBrain: http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/mapgen/image005.png is better. It is very dark but I can clearly see where I'm living. Very interesting. 20:40:25 <TrueBrain> Alberth: given that pastebin is the most unreadable code ever, I would say near to impossible 20:40:32 <TrueBrain> on a positive note, someone should write a simple replacement in Django 20:40:37 <TrueBrain> but I have 0.000 time 20:40:55 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:41:04 <TrueBrain> I even had Rubidium fix the CF :p 20:41:09 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 20:41:19 <PeterT> Alberth: Is it that hard to open the menu and hit 'd'? 20:41:30 <Alberth> andythenorth: answer my questions when I have them. That will have to wait a couple of weeks, I have too much things going on at the moment. 20:42:36 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: fix? 20:42:44 <Alberth> PeterT: hmm, I'd never have guessed that you could use the keyboard. 20:42:46 <Rubidium> it ain't fixed... it didn't help 20:42:49 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [] 20:43:03 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 20:43:09 <TrueBrain> the VBox update didn't help? 20:43:10 <TrueBrain> sucks 20:43:13 <Alberth> TrueBrain: or install another paste :p 20:43:22 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: nope, it didn't 20:43:23 <PeterT> Alberth: Is that sarcastic? 20:43:29 <TrueBrain> Alberth: there seems to be only one 20:44:27 <Alberth> PeterT: to you? no, that was serious, I never use a keyboard when doing 'mousy' things. 20:44:45 <PeterT> Alberth: Oh, because I thought I was a bit rude 20:45:44 <Alberth> PeterT: I use a console and/or a text editor about 90% of the time, so I rarely use the mouse 20:48:06 <PeterT> Alberth: Then you would be a good person to ask. Is there a better way of scrolling in nano? 20:48:07 <andythenorth> http://trac-hacks.org/wiki/TracPastePlugin 20:49:38 <Alberth> PeterT: I use gvim, not nano. Sorry. 20:50:05 <PeterT> Alberth: I would use vim, but I don't know how to search for keywords 20:50:25 <Alberth> type / 20:50:35 <frosch123> just use sed, everything about it is described a 5 man pages or so 20:50:55 <Alberth> that long? 20:51:08 <glx> I use / in less 20:51:22 <glx> and 'g' is nice too 20:51:27 <Alberth> less copied it from more 20:51:27 <andythenorth> Alberth: industry code - sure whenever you're free. I have some thoughts, but they're unfinished :) 20:51:30 <frosch123> s/a 5 man/on 5 info/ 20:51:46 <Alberth> oh sed(5) you mean 20:52:03 <frosch123> actualy "info sed" 20:52:38 <Alberth> argh, stupid gnu people 20:54:32 <frosch123> are they like gnus? 20:54:48 <frosch123> a gnu is no pony 20:54:51 <Alberth> more like 'everybody has X, let's do Y instead 20:56:04 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: trac .. ieuw 20:56:19 <frosch123> no idea, i only deal with linux and solaris, so i don't know much about "everybody" 20:56:46 <Alberth> use a *BSD system for a while :) 20:57:25 <fjb> Why only for a while? 20:57:37 <TrueBrain> because long term exposure is harmful 20:57:45 <frosch123> and wrt. user tools on solaris, i am used to prefix everything with a g, as patch, grep, diff and co are just crap on native solaris 20:57:56 * andythenorth lost the game 20:58:05 <frosch123> at least on the versions i have contact to, which might not be the very much newest 20:58:18 <fjb> frosch123: Native Solaris is System V, not BSD. 20:58:36 <Alberth> you can have that with Linux too, eg Centos :) 20:58:46 <frosch123> i was not talking about bsd, but "everybody" :) 20:59:20 <OwenS> frosch123: The ones on OpenSolaris all default to GNU now :-) 21:06:50 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:06:59 <OwenS> Hmm... Adding a new signal type has touched rather a bit more source than I anticipated 21:07:23 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s5591a1ba.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:07:52 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s5591a1ba.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:12:30 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 21:26:12 <PeterT> sbr makes alot of nice patches 21:29:56 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has joined #openttd 21:31:35 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 21:48:16 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-mlimmlgw1-ff1ec000-127.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 21:53:32 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has quit [] 21:53:43 <frosch123> who emptied my coffee mug? 21:53:44 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has joined #openttd 21:56:44 *** heffer [~felix@ip-88-152-182-156.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 21:56:54 <Rubidium> Casper! 21:56:56 <glx> the guy on your seat? 21:59:11 <frosch123> i would prefer if they would only rearrange the matrix when the mug is empty, not after it was just refilled 22:00:01 <Alberth> be smarter than them, take two mugs 22:00:05 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:03:49 <fjb> Oh no, they got Alberth! 22:04:26 <frosch123> yeah, better not read what he wrote :p 22:04:31 *** lewymati [~lewymati@89.230.159.206] has joined #openttd 22:13:13 <OwenS> Hmm... When adding a setting, do I need to use SDT_VAR or SDV_CONDVAR? 22:13:55 <frosch123> if you store it in the savegame you need CONDVAR, and specify the savegame version in it 22:14:23 <OwenS> OK, and I presume I need to bump the version at the same time (Well I do anyway... things will get confused if they load to find a new signal type...) 22:17:27 <Hirundo> If you're adding an advanced setting, yes 22:21:52 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-254-113-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 22:22:05 <Nite_Owl> Hello all 22:23:17 <PeterT> ideas? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=865756#p865756 22:28:40 *** heffer [~felix@ip-88-152-182-156.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:29:18 <frosch123> open the image in a image procesing program, and use brightness/contrast/gamma to fix it 22:30:49 <PeterT> I don't know how to do that :/ 22:35:40 <PeterT> frosch123: What type of image proccessing program? 22:40:08 <fjb> Any type of painting program that uses bitmaps. 22:42:20 <Terkhen> gimp 22:48:42 <PeterT> Thanks. 22:52:57 <OwenS> Hmm, it seems that the OpenGFX PBS signals collection is incomplete (i.e. NAND signals look like normal PBS with OpenGFX) 23:03:11 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-254-113-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon] 23:07:01 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has quit [] 23:11:00 <OwenS> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=47690 <-- Diff uploaded. 40kb? Wow, thats 5 times the size of my original version 23:13:22 <Ammler> do you have overflow protection? 23:13:29 <OwenS> Ammler: Yes 23:13:39 <OwenS> Defaults to 256 changes permitted 23:14:05 <Ammler> why should opengfx be incomplete? 23:14:16 <OwenS> Ammler: The signal graphic I use is not normally used 23:14:30 <OwenS> I use the "PBS-exit" graphic for now 23:14:52 <Ammler> hmm 23:15:04 <PeterT> Terkhen: where is that option in GIMP? 23:15:54 <Terkhen> I don't know 23:16:38 <Terkhen> I used it some months ago, I can't remember 23:16:47 <fjb> Look for brightness. You should be able to find that on your own. (At least I hope so.) 23:19:01 <PeterT> I found it, but I don't know how that will help me with converting White -> Black 23:19:38 <fjb> It will make the picture darker. 23:20:17 <fjb> I guess you don't want everything to be really black. 23:21:15 <PeterT> yes, just the empty area 23:21:27 <PeterT> fjb: look in the zip I posted on tt-forums 23:21:39 <frosch123> PeterT: just do colors->curves 23:22:10 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Considered going to StartSSL for the SSL cert? At the least both IE and Firefox ship their root, and it's free 23:22:25 <PeterT> frosch123: looks like what I want 23:22:36 <PeterT> frosch123: Do I need to select anything else? 23:24:38 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:43 <OwenS> And on the register page, "Note: before validating your account will not work. Accounts not validated within 48 hours will be dismissed." should probably be changed to "Your account will not work before it is validated. Accounts not validated within 48 hours will be removed." 23:28:20 <frosch123> night 23:28:26 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd665.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:30 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-83-56.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:33:05 <Ammler> OwenS: we use startssl, it isn't very much better.. 23:33:31 <Ammler> https://dev.openttdcoop.org 23:33:39 <OwenS> Ammler: They're getting there. As mentioned, Firefox and Windows now have them. Opera doesn't. Chrome I dunno 23:34:24 *** lewymati [~lewymati@89.230.159.206] has quit [] 23:34:52 <Ammler> suse doesn't either.. 23:36:20 <Rubidium> OwenS: using startssl for what? 23:36:29 <OwenS> Rubidium: accounts. 23:36:48 <Rubidium> do they provide... uhm... what are they called... 23:37:18 <Rubidium> ah yes, wildcard ssl certificates? 23:37:33 <OwenS> Rubidium: Yes, but only for a (relatively) low price 23:38:58 <Rubidium> right... 10.000 $ insurance without paying? 23:39:13 <OwenS> Rubidium: Is that possible? ;-) 23:40:59 <Rubidium> OwenS: well, https://www.startssl.com/?app=39 says it is 23:41:20 <OwenS> Perhaps that is the case then 23:43:29 <Rubidium> sorry, but that makes like a million alarm bells in my brain go off at the same time 23:44:37 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s5591a1ba.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]] 23:44:38 <OwenS> Rubidium: The guy who runs StartCom is pretty active on the mozilla-security-policy list, and StartCom have been WebTrust validated (i.e. they've been checked to be legit by the same people who check everyone else) 23:45:04 <Ammler> those are simply "sponsored" by the paid certs... 23:45:25 <OwenS> Also, how often is said insurance claimed upon? ;-) 23:45:51 <Ammler> what needs happen to claim it? 23:46:34 <OwenS> I believe that your SSL cert needs to leak to someone because of the CA, and then that someone has to cause you damages, and then you can claim back said damages for up to k 23:46:41 <OwenS> I.E, it's useless, but everyone offers it... 23:46:42 <Rubidium> Ammler: security breaches 23:46:53 <Rubidium> but then the company is probably bankrupt 23:47:24 <OwenS> It's there to make PHBs feel happy 23:47:48 <Ammler> Rubidium: usually they have a "backup" insurance 23:53:33 *** davis_ [~b@p5B28A302.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 23:59:02 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-220-101.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Something strange must have happened...]