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00:02:35 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 00:04:23 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d823bc1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: gn8] 00:06:52 *** iReMixX [~nnscript@cpc1-shep7-0-0-cust407.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 00:06:59 <iReMixX> anyone around? 00:07:43 <aber> maybe, just anyone? 00:08:26 <iReMixX> someone how knows how to compile the testing release would be nice 00:08:55 <aber> what's your problem? 00:09:06 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74A6A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:09:19 <PeterT> iReMixX: I can do that 00:09:25 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7716F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:09:32 <PeterT> iReMixX: binaries.openttd.org 00:09:50 <iReMixX> is that yer svn url? 00:10:23 <Terkhen> iReMixX: http://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling 00:10:24 <OwenS> PeterT: Speaking of building Windows binaries, I've had a request for one ( http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=47690 ) but, as a non-windows user, I can't fulfil it :P 00:10:53 <PeterT> OwenS: MinGW ok? 00:11:09 <OwenS> PeterT: Sure. I hopefully haven't broke MSVC :P 00:11:25 <PeterT> MSVC is slow on my machine, that's why 00:11:54 <iReMixX> Ive had a peer through the compiling article 00:12:15 <iReMixX> i would like to use svn, but it only says how to get the trunk release 00:12:23 <iReMixX> and that dosent work anyway 00:13:15 <PeterT> OwenS: what's with the huge whitespace at +STR_CONFIG_SETTING_MAX_NAND_CHANGES? 00:13:26 <PeterT> iReMixX: svn co svn://svn.opettd.org/tags/1.0.0-RC3 00:14:10 <OwenS> PeterT: Aah woops. I put in tabs instead of spaces 00:14:21 <PeterT> tabs aren't okay? 00:14:23 <Yexo> <iReMixX> and that dosent work anyway <- why not? trunk should work just fine 00:14:27 <OwenS> PeterT: No in translation file 00:14:32 <PeterT> Ok 00:14:34 <iReMixX> Wont find the URL 00:14:41 <Yexo> then you're doing something work 00:14:43 <OwenS> It'll build, it just is mismatched with everything else 00:14:48 <PeterT> svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk trunk 00:14:52 <iReMixX> i very well may be 00:14:54 <PeterT> <Yexo> then you're doing something work <-- lol 00:15:06 <iReMixX> lemme copy you the eroor 00:15:16 <PeterT> paste.openttd.org please 00:15:22 <Yexo> <PeterT> svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk trunk <- that works just fine here 00:15:42 <Yexo> oh, that was PeterT , not iReMixX 00:16:06 *** iReMixX is now known as iAndy 00:16:14 <iAndy> stupid nick from another netowkr 00:16:20 <iAndy> network* 00:16:41 <iAndy> Can't connect to host 'svn.openttd.org': A connection attempt failed because 00:16:53 <iAndy> the connected party did not properly respond after a period of time, or 00:16:55 <iAndy> established connection failed because connected host has failed to respond. 00:17:07 <OwenS> iAndy: That sonds like a network issue on your end 00:17:10 <Rubidium> you can reach it with your internet browser? 00:17:13 <PeterT> established connection failed because connected host has failed to respond. 00:17:25 <Rubidium> i.e. you can reach http://svn.openttd.org/ ? 00:17:50 <iAndy> i can indeed reach it 00:17:58 <iAndy> but only via the interwebs 00:18:17 <OwenS> iAndy: Try svn clone http://svn.openttd.org/trunk trunk then 00:18:23 <Rubidium> so something on your side blocks svn 00:18:27 <Yexo> hmm, what port does svn:// use? are you behind a proxy that blocks all non-web traffic? 00:18:28 <PeterT> iAndy: if you are really out of solutions, try "wget openttd-1.0.0-RC3-source.zip" target="_blank">http://us.binaries.openttd.org/binaries/releases/1.0.0-RC3/openttd-1.0.0-RC3-source.zip && unzip openttd-1.0.0-RC3-source.zip" 00:18:50 <Rubidium> OwenS: clone isn't a svn command 00:19:06 <iAndy> Erm, right now my firewall and proxy are disabled 00:19:10 <iAndy> so it wont be them 00:19:17 <OwenS> Rubidium: Ugh, git on the brain :P 00:19:19 <Rubidium> iAndy: try svn co http://svn.openttd.org/trunk 00:19:34 <Rubidium> iAndy: "on your side" does include your ISP which might be blocking stuff 00:19:48 <iAndy> nah 00:19:56 <iAndy> my isp is pretty liberal 00:20:02 <iAndy> ukfag here 00:20:32 <iAndy> OPTIONS of 'http://svn.openttd.org/trunk" target="_blank">http://svn.openttd.org/trunk': could not connect to server (http://svn.openttd.org) 00:20:36 <PeterT> iAndy: did you raed what I wrote? 00:20:42 <iAndy> yeah 00:20:48 <iAndy> just looking into it now 00:20:51 *** Westie [~westie@starfish.typefish.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:21:12 <Rubidium> iAndy: that sounds like a proxy server 00:22:02 <iAndy> Rubidium: Tis defo not 00:22:11 <Rubidium> iAndy: does https://svn.openttd.org/trunk work? 00:22:16 <Rubidium> with svn co that is 00:22:54 <iAndy> Rubidium: Nope :/ 00:23:03 <Rubidium> odd, all work for me 00:23:15 <Rubidium> maybe you (accidentally) disallowed subversion to connect to the internet? 00:23:59 <PeterT> OwenS: compiling 00:24:09 <OwenS> PeterT: FHS will thank you :-) 00:24:35 <iAndy> i think im just hated 00:24:39 <iAndy> by svn 00:24:48 <PeterT> OwenS: I'm so bored I'm actually thinking of what I'm going to write in the forum post 00:24:56 <iAndy> its 12:30 am, ill try in the morning 00:25:07 <OwenS> PeterT: rofl 00:25:09 <Rubidium> there's always mercurial or git 00:25:28 <PeterT> OwenS: "Sorry I took so long, I'm usually on the forums 24/7" 00:25:40 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:26:27 <OwenS> PeterT: Wait, you feel it your job to build win32 binaries? :-P 00:26:37 <PeterT> OwenS: No, that was a joke 00:26:58 <PeterT> joke 00:30:07 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D2B8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32:47 *** iReMixX [~nnscript@cpc1-shep7-0-0-cust407.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 00:32:57 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.17.249.21] has quit [Quit: ãããã¿] 00:33:12 *** iReMixX is now known as iAndy|Ghost 00:35:20 <PeterT> OwenS: Done! 00:36:55 *** iAndy [~nnscript@cpc1-shep7-0-0-cust407.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:37:19 <PeterT> it actually finished a bit ago, but I didn't notice 00:37:36 <OwenS> I was thinking "bloody long compile" :p 00:37:51 *** iAndy|Ghost [~nnscript@cpc1-shep7-0-0-cust407.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 00:40:05 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.A212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 00:43:55 <PeterT> OwenS: what do I write in the post? 00:44:03 <OwenS> PeterT: I dunno :p 00:44:08 <Terkhen> good night 00:44:09 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.A212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 00:44:10 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@44.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...] 00:44:10 <OwenS> Whatever you want 00:44:44 <OwenS> Even something as simple as "Win32 binary" :p 00:45:06 <PeterT> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=865792#p865792 00:45:21 <PeterT> No, posts must be at least 3 words long 00:45:49 <OwenS> People are gonna see that and get confused :p 00:47:00 <PeterT> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=865792#p865792 00:47:54 <OwenS> Hmm, 7 people have downloaded the diff. Interesting 00:48:30 <aber> or maybe one very confused person 00:48:48 <PeterT> I lol'd at that 00:53:56 <PeterT> "<Server> Obama Administration has constructed a private Oil Refinery and claimed it as their own!" 01:01:39 <OwenS> OK.. I've just built a D-flip-flop in OpenTTD :P 01:06:15 <Rubidium> how much tiles would an Atom processor takes to make in OpenTTD? 01:07:05 <OwenS> Rubidium: Aren't they about 2mil gates? If you manged 1 gate per tile (That is, with no tracks/wires in between them!) it probably wouldn't fit on a 4096² map :p 01:07:37 <OwenS> Hmm... 2mil gates would fit 8 times on such a map. But you'd still need track 01:09:42 <OwenS> Also, with the maximum signal propogation being limited to 4096 gates... 01:10:45 <OwenS> If you were insane you could perhaps create a Z80 :p 01:19:02 *** MeCooL [mecool@94.128.91.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:34:35 *** SpBot [spbot@skrblz.fixme.fi] has joined #openttd 01:41:09 *** ptr [~peter@90-227-166-229-no72.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 01:43:16 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:48:31 <Yexo> http://paste.openttd.org/225327 a working meta-nfo language 01:48:45 <Yexo> ok, this project is crazy :p 01:49:35 <Yexo> it's still far from complete, but at least it has varaction2 support 02:07:14 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:10:48 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19496 /extra/website/general/utils/binaries.py: [Website] -Change: PDBs are now compressed, so ignore the compressed file 02:13:54 <OwenS> Speaking of NFO... paste.openttd.org has highlighting for PIC assembler but not NFO :P 02:42:02 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:09:42 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn14-2-0-cust562.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:13:55 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:22:13 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Administr@89.246.195.99] has joined #openttd 03:27:57 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Administr@89.246.201.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:33:47 * PeterT just coded his first GRf 03:33:50 <PeterT> win. 03:54:13 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: ecke] 03:55:12 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [] 03:59:44 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:1982:a4ba:bda8:47da] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:05:15 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 04:24:56 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 04:33:33 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c2c6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:03:59 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@CPE-58-173-248-50.szxn1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 05:36:53 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm109.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 05:43:38 <Pikka> oh no 05:43:51 *** Bobbysepp [~Bobbysepp@c-98-225-53-32.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 05:53:03 *** JVassie_ [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:53:33 *** George [~George@212.113.107.216] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:57:55 *** George [~George@212.113.107.216] has joined #openttd 06:21:51 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:28:03 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:00:53 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@CPE-58-173-248-50.szxn1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 07:24:35 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 07:27:07 *** MeCooL [mecool@94.129.171.169] has joined #openttd 07:34:06 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:53:52 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 08:04:06 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@44.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 08:04:17 <Terkhen> good morning 08:17:26 <Yexo> good morning 08:22:53 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:26:24 *** fjb [~frank@p5485B19F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:30:42 *** fjb [~frank@p5485B19F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:39:04 *** fjb [~frank@p5485B19F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:39:32 *** fjb [~frank@p5485B19F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:42:44 <planetmaker> moin 08:42:59 <fjb> Moin planetmaker 08:47:08 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-225-107.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:51:19 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-18-18.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 08:51:22 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 09:00:57 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-220-101.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 09:21:53 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:32:24 <andythenorth> peter1138: yes Pikka is often correct :) 09:32:29 <andythenorth> what is he specifically correct about? 09:36:11 <peter1138> everything? 09:37:37 <andythenorth> He's not wrong about CheckIfFarEnoughFromIndustry but nor is he correct 09:40:17 <peter1138> he is correct 09:40:23 <Singaporekid> he is a bird 09:40:31 <peter1138> just your second post elaborates on what you want to actually do 09:40:43 <andythenorth> yup, I saw I'd failed on that 09:40:48 <andythenorth> ho hum 09:44:10 <andythenorth> I find it weird to have a game option which doesn't do what it says. But maybe I'm being too OCD :o 09:50:58 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:53:50 *** fjb [~frank@p5485B19F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:55:53 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:56:17 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:57:09 <TrueBrain> [00:22] <OwenS> TrueBrain: Considered going to StartSSL for the SSL cert? At the least both IE and Firefox ship their root, and it's free <- CACert is shipped with most OSes and FF too ... and it is free 09:57:09 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 09:57:57 <peter1138> TrueBrain, he's not here :) 09:58:06 <TrueBrain> his problem :) 09:58:35 * andythenorth ponders passengers at oil rigs 09:59:54 * andythenorth wonders if people are engineering supplies :P 10:00:42 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f74ed.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:02:21 <andythenorth> bonjour frosch123 10:02:34 <frosch123> moin andy 10:05:09 <andythenorth> frosch123: I have a game running with modified random production cb....closures look about right so far 10:05:53 *** Yexo [~Yexo@205-89-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Quit: bye] 10:06:06 <frosch123> and creation? 10:06:12 *** Yexo [~Yexo@205-89-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 10:06:55 <frosch123> if there are only a few industries on the map, it will now also only try to create some new ones 10:07:02 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 10:07:12 <frosch123> resp. if there are lots it will try to create lots of new ones 10:07:17 <andythenorth> frosch123: not sure. I need to build Terkhen's patch and run multiple games 10:08:09 <andythenorth> I'll do that later today - fooling with oil rigs and passengers at the moment 10:11:29 <andythenorth> 'Everyone' knows oil rigs accept passengers right? I've been playing this damn game so long I can't remember what's obvious any more :o 10:13:35 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D8F5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:14:14 <Hirundo> Yexo: http://paste.openttd.org/225327 <- this sure looks interesting. Is more info available somewhere? 10:14:21 <Yexo> not yet 10:14:43 <Yexo> I'm currently thinking about the syntax for normal action2s 10:17:29 <Hirundo> Just last night I was writing up a sort of spec for such a language 10:18:21 <Hirundo> The syntax is quite different, but I'll finish it and post it into the pastebin for inspiration 10:18:34 <Yexo> that'd be great :) 10:23:00 *** fjb [~frank@p5485E97E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:24:12 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DB422.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:25:32 *** elmz [~elmz@ti0031a380-0504.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 10:26:59 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn14-2-0-cust562.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:29:56 <Alberth> Very nice Yexo, I was also secretly thinking about a more readable format. Not sure if this fits that bill, but hey, it has more words than current nfo 10:30:32 * andythenorth likes the safe familiar world of nfo :P 10:31:08 <andythenorth> nfo eliminates typos in variable names :) 10:32:55 <Alberth> instead you get 0xbaeb typo's :p 10:33:03 <andythenorth> he :P 10:33:21 <andythenorth> nfo eliminates style arguments about camel case vs hungarian etc 10:33:41 <andythenorth> nfo eliminates forgetting the brackets so a function isn't called 10:33:55 <andythenorth> nfo eliminates worrying about types 10:34:06 <andythenorth> and = instead of == in if statements 10:34:14 <andythenorth> all my favourite coding fuckups :) 10:34:25 <Alberth> no it doesn't, you still have bytes and words and long words 10:34:53 <andythenorth> and escapes with \d or \dx 10:34:54 <Alberth> and you can mess up endian shuffling :) 10:34:56 <ccfreak2k> nfo killed my dog. 10:35:19 <ccfreak2k> I hate languages with implicit type conversion. 10:35:23 <frosch123> can it also kill cats? 10:35:25 <andythenorth> I keep killing the game by mixing up 00 and 20 in advanced varaction 2 10:35:33 <Yexo> Alberth: the syntax can still use a lot of work, but getting away further from nfo is hard if the end result has to be compiled to nfo 10:36:20 <andythenorth> I think nfo being baroque keeps the standard of newgrfs high :) 10:37:01 <frosch123> then you did not encounter experts' hard industries 10:37:02 <Yexo> frosch123: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VarAction2Advanced says "Registers (temporary and persistent alike) always have the size of 4 bytes. If you're writing them using smaller sizes (anything but type 89/8A), the given value will be sign-extended to 4 bytes." 10:37:11 <Alberth> I am mostly concerned about the size of the language. nfo is BIG, with a lot of special cases 10:37:15 <Yexo> I haven't tested it yet, but judging from the code openttd doesn't sign-extend the values 10:37:54 <OwenS> Yexo: Hmm, interesting. That would be quite subtle in C++ though 10:37:59 <andythenorth> I always write them with type 89....81 and 85 don't seem to work 10:38:07 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 10:38:30 <Alberth> and you never filed a bug report? 10:38:38 <andythenorth> oops 10:38:46 <andythenorth> It wasn't exactly a scientific test :) 10:38:58 <andythenorth> I normally assume I've done something wrong 10:40:13 <andythenorth> actually I'm talking crap. I do write registers with type 85 and it works 10:40:30 <Yexo> unrelated question about nfo: if I want to read bits 24..27 from industry var 45, is it valid to do that with type 81 and a shift of 24 or do I need type 89 for that? 10:41:18 <frosch123> 81 and shift 24 is fine 10:41:31 <frosch123> but yes, the signed extending is missing 10:41:47 * andythenorth grumble grumble....how about some more nice patches for debugging newgrfs? :) 10:42:03 <andythenorth> the hard part is testing, not coding :| 10:42:20 <OwenS> Is the sign extension useful? Perhaps a zero-extension option should be added also? 10:45:44 *** ^4VAlien^ [~kastje@ant06-1-82-242-108-211.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 10:46:20 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/signedstorage.diff <- so i guess something like that 10:47:16 <andythenorth> Terkhen: rv acceleration - hp should only be defined in the newgrf for the lead vehicle? 10:47:42 <Terkhen> yes 10:47:46 <andythenorth> thanks 10:48:16 <^4VAlien^> are savegames that crash within a few minutes useful for the development team? (using the RC3) 10:48:29 <Yexo> yes 10:48:46 <Yexo> at least, if you didn't use a patch or heavily modified your newgrf list 10:49:19 <frosch123> [11:50] <andythenorth> Terkhen: rv acceleration - hp should only be defined in the newgrf for the lead vehicle? <- you should even zero it for the other parts (see newgrf wiki) 10:49:34 <andythenorth> frosch123: thanks. I've done that :) 10:50:24 <^4VAlien^> no i use the stock download 10:50:31 <^4VAlien^> im now installing the dev environment though 10:50:41 <^4VAlien^> but im more interested in making an AI 10:51:55 <OwenS> From the git repo, is there any way for me to find out what SVN revision a commit corresponds to? 10:52:54 <peter1138> yes 10:53:15 <peter1138> check the commit log 10:56:01 <TrueBrain> [00:22] <OwenS> TrueBrain: Considered going to StartSSL for the SSL cert? At the least both IE and Firefox ship their root, and it's free <- CACert is shipped with most OSes and FF too ... and it is free 10:56:05 <TrueBrain> peter1138: this time he was here, right? :) 10:56:42 * andythenorth reads some src 10:57:09 <andythenorth> cb 14B (set industry acceptance cargo dynamically) - shouldn't be a problem for AIs, right? 10:57:28 <andythenorth> won't break AI ability to check what cargos accepted? 10:58:20 <frosch123> ais have two functions to check the cargos. the one for existing industries works with 14a/b, the one for industrytypes works as less as the industry construction gui 10:58:35 *** LadyHawk- [~here@office01.ldhosting.com] has joined #openttd 10:58:43 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Mozilla and Windows don't ship it. Also, StartSSL is free 10:59:09 <Rubidium> not for wildcard SSLs 10:59:09 <TrueBrain> Mozilla should be shipping it, as they said they did 10:59:12 <andythenorth> hmmm 10:59:16 <TrueBrain> StartSSL is ..... not the best option :p 10:59:31 <TrueBrain> well, in theory we don't use wildcards, but we do use lots of subdomains 11:01:02 <frosch123> hmm, so ecs vectors use op 0E and 10 multiple times for bytes and words 11:01:15 <__ln__> TrueBrain: my FF doesn't recognize cacert.org's certificate 11:01:25 <Yexo> frosch123: that diff looks good 11:01:27 <OwenS> git log origin/HEAD | grep "(svn" | head -n 1 | cut -d" " -f 6 | head -c -2 <-- Thats quite ridiculous :p 11:02:03 <TrueBrain> I think we should just use money from the donations for a verizon certificate :p 11:02:04 <TrueBrain> haha 11:02:13 <OwenS> verizon? You mean VeriSign? :P 11:02:18 <OwenS> Thwate would be somewhat cheaper 11:02:27 <TrueBrain> both start with 'veri' 11:03:26 <Alberth> andythenorth: The trick with debugging facilities is that we need a generic one, rather than one for industries, one for vehicles, one for houses, one for stations, etc. That needs a design by someone fluent in both nfo and c++ I am afraid. 11:04:05 *** LadyHawk [~here@office01.ldhosting.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:04:08 *** LadyHawk- is now known as LadyHawk 11:04:23 <Alberth> OwenS: We thought about hiring volunteers to type the revision number every time the computer needed one, but supplying enough food was too expensive 11:04:38 <TrueBrain> LOL @ Alberth :) 11:06:02 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r19497 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Fix: [NewGRF] Bytes and words get sign-extended for temporary/persistent storage. (Spotted by yexo) 11:07:50 <andythenorth> Alberth: yep I see the point. My proposal is for a generic framework. Rather than a 'patch for industries here', a 'hack for trains there' etc. 11:07:57 <andythenorth> But I am not fluent in nfo or C++ :( 11:08:05 <andythenorth> I have drawn a nice icon though :) 11:10:40 <andythenorth> peter1138: the players have noticed and are having ideas :) http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=865827#p865827 11:11:18 <frosch123> what is needed for debugging? displaying all persistent storage registers? displaying all variables 00-5f? displaying the last result of every callbackid? setting conditional breakpoints for callbacks and then print the whole trace for them once? 11:12:26 <andythenorth> persistent registers - definitely 11:12:39 <andythenorth> callbacks enabled - definitely 11:12:51 <peter1138> only industries have persistent registers 11:12:54 <andythenorth> yup 11:13:12 <andythenorth> displaying last result for each cb - useful if possible. Do some cbs run insanely often? 11:13:37 <frosch123> "callbacks enabled" sounds weird to me. then you rather need some tool which checks whether all callbacks appearing the the action2 chain are enabled 11:13:39 * OwenS chucks new patch into #FS3713 11:13:54 <frosch123> what is the use of displaying enabled callbacks in game? 11:14:15 <andythenorth> frosch123: I've spent a lot of time trying to 'fix' varaction 2 for cbs, to find that I hadn't enabled the cb :o 11:14:23 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:14:29 <andythenorth> the cb bit map is really easy to get wrong 11:14:45 <frosch123> so you need a tool which can check that, but no display for manual checking, right? 11:15:16 <andythenorth> manual checking? 11:15:35 *** ptr [~peter@90-227-166-229-no72.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 11:15:48 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 11:15:58 * andythenorth should learn to explain himself better 11:16:17 <frosch123> yes, displaying them ingame and a human reading it and comparing it with the action2 chani 11:16:41 <andythenorth> what Yexo's patch does is sufficient http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=47679 11:16:56 <andythenorth> resp. cbs 11:17:33 <andythenorth> also special /misc flags in case of industries 11:18:15 <frosch123> so basically all action0 properties including semantical meaning? :p 11:18:25 <andythenorth> no Yexo pointed out that's unnecessary 11:18:52 <andythenorth> for things that are simple, it's pointless printing them, the nfo is sufficient, or they are displayed anyway (speed, weight etc) 11:19:17 <andythenorth> for props that are bit maps, it is useful to see the result 11:19:36 <andythenorth> vehicle cargo refit masks might be a good (specific not general) case 11:20:05 <andythenorth> break points would be useful - something like an advanced varaction 2 operator that pushes the result to the debug? 11:20:36 <andythenorth> I use the text stack that way, but it's a fools game. My code to render the text stack often has as many bugs as the code I'm trying to debug :| 11:21:20 <frosch123> a breakpoint in the nfo? i rather thought some ingame "print trace of next call to production callback" 11:21:38 <andythenorth> that could work equally 11:21:58 <andythenorth> I would defer to your knowledge on most of this :) 11:22:03 <Yexo> frosch123: I was thinking along those lines too 11:22:16 <Yexo> but then also "next call to productino callback of this specific industry" 11:22:29 *** lewymati [~lewymati@89.230.159.206] has joined #openttd 11:23:15 <frosch123> yup, and "next call of production callback of this industry when stockpile of first cargo is bigger than 1000" 11:23:19 <frosch123> :p 11:23:39 <frosch123> putting a breakpoint in the nfo might be easier in that case 11:23:51 <frosch123> but the usage seems quite different 11:24:26 <Yexo> when debugging a callback you need to know on which industry/vehicle/.. the callback is run, and preferable only print a trace if the callback is run for a specific industry/vehicle 11:24:50 <andythenorth> Yexo: it would seem easier to just localise that to the GUI for the object in question? 11:25:00 <andythenorth> That's an outcome not an implementation :) 11:25:38 <andythenorth> hmmm 11:26:22 <andythenorth> xy offsets for industry tiles (presumably also houses). Yes I can count them, but the computer is better at counting than me 11:26:52 <andythenorth> and tile ID 11:27:04 <andythenorth> in fact probably a whole bunch of tile stuff 11:27:47 <Alberth> info button gives the coordinates 11:28:08 <andythenorth> absolute on the map though, not relative to industry north tile 11:28:17 * andythenorth wasn't clear 11:28:53 <Alberth> getting ideas across is one of the most difficult things, even with a A2 white board :) 11:29:39 <andythenorth> hmm....I knew some of the default industries accepted passengers, I didn't know it was so many :o 11:31:22 <frosch123> well, there are also more complicated cases. e.g. how to select wagons or articulated parts. or industry location check at a specific position... i doubt it is possible to specify all via the gui 11:31:35 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8df6d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:31:52 <frosch123> does anyone know what ttdp's newgrf debugging features? or does it just dump everything to a file? 11:32:01 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:32:45 <Yexo> according to http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=DebuggingGRFCode is dumps it to a file 11:33:07 <Yexo> and there is some utility on the forum to create a more readable text file from that output 11:34:10 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s5591a1ba.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 11:35:29 <andythenorth> wonder how much debugging vehicles need? 11:35:37 <andythenorth> some of the train stuff is pretty complex I guess 11:35:53 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r19498 /trunk/src/vehicle_cmd.cpp: -Feature [FS#3710]: Keep number padding intact when cloning vehicle names. 11:37:20 * andythenorth wonders about being able to see the results of getting some random bits 11:38:09 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.17.249.21] has joined #openttd 11:38:11 <frosch123> you mean displaying the random bits like persistant storage, or calling a callback with a certain random value? 11:39:33 * andythenorth thinks 11:40:09 <andythenorth> displaying the random bits would be interesting. Displaying the result of testing a var like 5F would be more useful. 11:40:17 * OwenS considers morphing NAND signals patch into proper programmable signals 11:40:25 <andythenorth> For industry I can do it with persistent storage though 11:41:00 <andythenorth> I don't want to give the impression that I think an uber-framework is a good idea :o 11:41:23 <andythenorth> A simple tool that works is better than no tool (or my crazy text stack solution for industries) 11:41:49 <Hirundo> Yexo: http://paste.openttd.org/225328 11:42:17 <Yexo> thanks Hirundo 11:45:58 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has joined #openttd 11:53:19 <Yexo> Hirundo: apart from some syntactic sugar it's not that different from what Iv'e done so far 11:54:46 <PeterT> andythenorth: I coded my first GRF last night 11:54:54 <PeterT> I've already started CETS 11:55:33 <PeterT> planetmaker: how was the party? :-) 11:57:15 <frosch123> Hirundo: you do everything dword-sized. what about signed/unsigned? 11:58:08 <Hirundo> **, // and %% for signed multiplication/div/mod 11:59:16 <frosch123> hmm, is that written in there? :o 11:59:22 <Hirundo> nope :) 12:00:17 <PeterT> what error have I made in my code, andythenorth? http://paste.openttd.org/225329 12:01:02 *** Westie [~westie@starfish.typefish.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:01:30 <frosch123> an example which uses store or storeP might be useful, i cannot see how that works 12:03:38 <Yexo> frosch123: what is the problem? he didn't specify that store() also returns the value 12:03:53 <Yexo> and value should probably be <expr> 12:04:14 <frosch123> wel,l but where do i put it? into the switch() ? 12:04:40 <Yexo> I'd expect something like this: 12:05:48 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 12:05:48 <Yexo> switch (feature_num, set_id, store((var[0x40]+10) & 0x0F, 8) ) { 12:06:03 <Yexo> Hirundo: is that ^^ according to your spec ok? 12:06:13 <andythenorth> PeterT: you're missing a byte 12:06:22 <frosch123> so "switch ( store(read(1), 2), read(3) )"? or "switch ( load( store(read(1), 2), read(3) )" ? 12:06:36 <PeterT> andythenorth: where? 12:06:39 <PeterT> what is a byte? 12:06:47 <andythenorth> :P 12:07:02 <PeterT> is it on the ttdp wiki? 12:07:04 <andythenorth> PeterT: try formatting your action 2 like this:http://paste.openttd.org/225331 12:07:12 <andythenorth> it's a proven formula :) 12:07:12 <Yexo> frosch123: where does the "load(" come from? 12:07:31 <PeterT> you can even do that? 12:07:37 <frosch123> operator 0F 12:07:41 <PeterT> that's much better than my code! 12:08:06 <frosch123> just invented it, maybe "reset" fits better 12:08:12 <frosch123> or "," :) 12:08:12 <andythenorth> PeterT: that one's for a ship. beware of copying and pasting it :) 12:08:24 <PeterT> gotcha 12:08:33 <Hirundo> http://paste.openttd.org/225332 12:08:44 <Yexo> frosch123: that doesn't make sense, you don't need operator 0F if you can use a normal expression 12:08:49 <PeterT> andythenorth: I'm going to say these trains only have one loading phase, since that's all the sprites have in them 12:09:00 <PeterT> andythenorth: they didn't give pcx files, is that a problem? 12:09:05 <andythenorth> yes 12:09:08 <PeterT> andythenorth: I only have the png 12:09:11 <PeterT> damn it 12:09:21 <andythenorth> no you can convert png to pcx 12:09:22 <frosch123> Yexo: so "," accoring to newest paste 12:09:39 <Yexo> ah, like in C 12:09:44 <andythenorth> PeterT: I'm afk 12:09:48 <andythenorth> chores! 12:09:52 <PeterT> Ok, bye! 12:09:56 <andythenorth> but someone else might help you or I'll be back later 12:10:05 <PeterT> what problem do you use? 12:10:08 <PeterT> for conversion 12:10:14 <andythenorth> photoshop 12:10:19 <andythenorth> in my case 12:10:19 <PeterT> adobe? 12:10:22 <andythenorth> yup 12:10:48 <PeterT> meh 12:10:49 <^4VAlien^> paint.net is a good free image tool on windows 12:10:49 <PeterT> that's money 12:10:57 <PeterT> thanks ^ 12:11:02 <PeterT> thanks ^4VAlien^ 12:13:00 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 12:13:31 <^4VAlien^> i just checked and you need a plugin for pcx support though 12:14:00 <Yexo> http://paste.openttd.org/225333 converted Hirundos example to the syntax I've used so far 12:14:09 <Yexo> oh, and I stole the , operator :p 12:14:14 <PeterT> http://www.imageconverterplus.com/how-to-convert/png_pcx.html ? 12:15:05 <frosch123> ^4VAlien^: does it support images with indexed colours? 12:17:11 <Hirundo> Yexo: in your first example, does 'company_color = ((VAR(0x45) >> 24) & 0x0F)' act like a #define or like an actual (run-time) assignment? 12:17:57 <Yexo> like a #define 12:18:13 <^4VAlien^> frosch123 it can work with palettes yes 12:18:28 <^4VAlien^> i'll see if i can get it to save a pcx 12:18:29 <^4VAlien^> :P 12:19:15 <Hirundo> How do you plan to work with actions 6, 7/9 and D? 12:19:54 <Yexo> I don't have a plan for that yet 12:20:12 <Yexo> I started without a good plan, just to see how difficult it would be to support varaction2 12:22:02 <Hirundo> How would you handle a / (b * c) ? 12:22:27 <^4VAlien^> Color Palette 12:22:27 <^4VAlien^> New for the Colors window is a customizable palette that can hold up 96 colors. Also available is the ability to save, load, and manage the color palettes. These are stored as simple TXT files in your Documents folder hierarchy. 12:22:32 <^4VAlien^> so it works for me with pcx 12:22:41 <^4VAlien^> but im not sure how the palette requirements are in ttd 12:23:12 <Hirundo> With actionD it'd be d = b * c, result = a / d; with d being a temporary variable 12:23:42 <Yexo> if that expression occurs in a varaction2 chain I do the same using the temporary storage 12:23:45 <frosch123> 96 colors? you need 256 12:24:15 <frosch123> in fixed order with fixed values, and you need to save the images as indexed image not as truecolor image 12:24:43 <Yexo> so it'd become (B * C), store the result in temp[0], discard it, load A, divide by temp[0] 12:26:00 <Hirundo> For both parameters and temp storage, it'd be necessary to reserve a certain section for these temporary variables 12:26:52 <frosch123> just reserve 0x80 to 0xFF 12:27:09 <^4VAlien^> ah well you can save them 8 bit dithered but there is no support for color tables as in old school gif editors etc 12:27:56 <frosch123> though for parameters it is harder due to the weird defined/undefined handling 12:27:59 <Yexo> true, currently I reserver the high half of the temp storage, so temp[128] to temp[255] 12:28:26 <Hirundo> The temporary storage index to read (7D parameter) cannot be set during the callback, right? 12:28:40 <Yexo> no 12:28:43 <Yexo> but that is no problem 12:28:48 <frosch123> correct, no indirect addressing :) 12:29:02 * Hirundo had weird thoughts about stack pointers and such 12:29:03 <^4VAlien^> http://paintdotnet.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=22521 theres this plugin which lets you define a selective palette 12:29:11 <Yexo> I resolve the indexes in the temp storage to use at compile time 12:29:16 <^4VAlien^> but i usually use paint.net as quick editor at work 12:29:20 <^4VAlien^> no need for palettes there 12:29:36 <Hirundo> Yexo: what language do you use? 12:30:02 <Yexo> python (with ply as lexer/parser) 12:30:43 <PeterT> what keeps happening to my grf code? http://paste.openttd.org/225334 12:31:07 <Yexo> PeterT: read the message you get: Error (115): No preceeding action 1. 12:31:13 <Yexo> you need an action1 before that action2 12:32:08 <PeterT> oh, is that always needed? 12:32:19 <andythenorth> yes 12:32:22 <PeterT> like, I didn't need Action7 before Action7 12:32:39 <Yexo> action7 before action7? what are you talking about? 12:32:44 <andythenorth> http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=A_vehicle_%28NFO%29 12:33:32 <Yexo> andythenorth: action 3 before action 0? does that work? 12:33:38 <PeterT> s/Action7/Action8/ 12:34:25 <Yexo> PeterT: in the action2 you wrote there is "01 00 // loaded sprites", that refers to the last action1 12:34:34 <PeterT> Oh, didn't know that 12:34:50 <Yexo> but you refer to an action1 without ever having defined an action 1, that is why the error is shown 12:35:03 <PeterT> honestly, I dont' know the difference between num-loadtypes, loadtypes, loadingtypes 12:35:48 <Yexo> <num-loadtypes> B Number of different states while moving 12:35:52 <Yexo> <num-loadingtypes> B Number of different states while loading/unloading 12:35:57 <Yexo> <loadtypes> W Sets from the most recent action 1 to use for various states of loading 12:35:59 *** iri [~pwaller@109-232.76-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #openttd 12:36:03 <Yexo> there it already mentions action 1 12:36:10 <Yexo> it's all properly documented 12:39:17 <andythenorth> PeterT: btw if you get pcx files, make sure their *width* is a multiple of 4 12:39:34 <PeterT> the entire file itself, or the trains? 12:39:44 <andythenorth> the entire pcx file 12:39:49 <PeterT> ok 12:39:51 <andythenorth> otherwise corruption happens 12:39:54 <PeterT> I gotta go 12:39:57 <PeterT> be back in an hour 12:44:49 <iri> Why does my openttd version number look like a sha1? 12:44:56 *** iri is now known as irid 12:45:02 <irid> oops, must have put my nick in the wrong box somewhere 12:45:21 <OwenS> irid: You building from Git? 12:45:29 <OwenS> Wheres assert() defined? 12:45:30 <irid> Yes. but I can't see the sha1 in the log? 12:45:39 <OwenS> irid: You can see it in the "git log" 12:45:54 <OwenS> When you build it from git, you get the git revision rather than the SVN revision 12:46:06 <irid> doh, I was being dumb, sorry. 12:46:12 <irid> I was including the "g" when looking 12:46:15 <irid> silly me. 12:47:21 <Alberth> OwenS: #include <cassert> (or in c-speak, #include <assert.h>) 12:47:23 <irid> I want to improve the industry directory list. Maybe by showing something like a small percentile graphic for an industry for its production. 12:47:34 <OwenS> Alberth: I thought OpenTTD had a custom assert? :-S 12:47:39 <irid> Also, to be able to sort by industry and production simultaneously.. 12:47:52 <irid> Does anyone think this is a worthwhile endeavour? 12:47:58 <irid> (Or not?) 12:48:01 <Alberth> NOT_REACHED(); :) 12:48:10 <Alberth> most likely in stdafx.h 12:49:10 <OwenS> Well, the basic opcodes of my signal VM are done 12:51:13 <^4VAlien^> what is the build target to get a debug build ? 12:53:42 <irid> Hmm. Does any GUI provide a way of having a list with columns? 12:54:45 <Alberth> server list 12:55:02 <Alberth> but it does some magic with hiding columns 12:57:07 <Alberth> but basically, it is a bunch of matrix widgets next to each other 12:57:41 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@CPE-58-173-248-50.szxn1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 12:58:50 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:ade2:236d:c97d:ebbe] has joined #openttd 12:58:53 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:00:47 <andythenorth> hmmm 13:00:53 <Pikka> hmmm 13:00:59 <andythenorth> hi hi Pikka 13:01:06 <Pikka> hello andy 13:02:11 <andythenorth> Yexo: your patch for AcceptSameCargo would 'break' PBI and maybe ECS 13:02:28 <andythenorth> which is sad, because the patch is the right thing to do 13:03:09 <Pikka> D: what does it do? 13:04:34 <^4VAlien^> i almost got my environment set up, but: ..\ttd\src\town_gui.cpp:41:27: table/strings.h: No such file or directory i guess i need to generate it ? 13:04:39 <^4VAlien^> its not on the wiki how to get that file 13:04:51 <^4VAlien^> (i checked out the RC3 tag from repository) 13:04:54 <andythenorth> http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/same_cargo_acceptance.diff 13:05:02 <andythenorth> Pikka: ^ 13:05:05 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 13:05:13 <Yexo> ^4VAlien^: it's generated automatically if you run make 13:05:29 <Yexo> or by msvc, depending on what environment you use 13:05:52 <^4VAlien^> i installed eclipse 13:06:04 <^4VAlien^> but i did not hit any make buttons, went straight to build :P 13:06:27 <Yexo> there is no project for eclipse, you'll have to create the rules for strgen etc. yourself 13:06:27 <Pikka> hmmm 13:06:32 <andythenorth> current industry location check only looks at cargo slot 0 13:06:46 <andythenorth> the 'break' would be power station can't locate near steel mill 13:06:57 <andythenorth> not exactly earth shattering 13:06:59 <andythenorth> ? 13:07:01 <Pikka> that industry location check is an openttd feature, right? 13:07:03 <^4VAlien^> ah well i use eclipse with mingw toolset 13:07:28 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-200-135.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 13:07:35 <andythenorth> Pikka: dunno 13:07:38 <Yexo> Pikka: I don't know 13:07:41 <andythenorth> oh 13:07:45 <andythenorth> I have to go afk :| 13:07:50 <andythenorth> meh 13:08:05 <Pikka> I think so, there's no problem with putting, say, two steel mills next to each other in TTDP... 13:08:23 <Pikka> personally I'd like to see the check removed, or at least overridable by newgrf :] 13:08:37 <glx> ^4VAlien^: the order is strgen, langs, openttd 13:09:03 <andythenorth> Pikka: I also think it should be over-ridable by newgrf 13:09:20 <andythenorth> either make the result of cb28 canonical, or make cb14B work in this context (it's broken right now) 13:09:23 <^4VAlien^> i'll try first with a clean build 13:15:02 <^4VAlien^> it might be that i did not have a cc binary on my mingw (just gcc), its seems to be building now that i have it 13:15:45 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn12-192.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:17:10 *** Tennel [~Tennel@pD9529776.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 13:18:26 <^4VAlien^> compiling goes a lot faster on the quad core bulldozer at work :( 13:18:33 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:19:28 *** Adambean [~AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 13:20:16 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8df6d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:24:29 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 13:24:30 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [] 13:24:36 * andythenorth just solved a problem :) 13:24:40 <andythenorth> probably 13:26:47 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 13:37:44 <irid> When doing DrawString, is there any way to control the colour without modifying the string itself? 13:38:23 *** Tennel [~Tennel@pD9529776.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.1.1] 13:38:36 *** Tennel [~Tennel@pD9529776.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 13:38:37 <Yexo> text color is the next argument after the stringid / char* 13:38:49 <frosch123> andythenorth, pikka, yexo: the cargo checking seems to be indeed an ottd addition (not present in 0.1). so i also vote for removing 13:39:12 <Yexo> we've been doing double work, I was just testing it in ttdpatch :) 13:39:27 <irid> Oh, so it is. sorry. 13:39:29 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8df6d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:40:09 <Yexo> I agree on removing the check btw 13:40:10 <frosch123> it is already part of r1 13:40:20 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@81.107.119-80.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd 13:40:28 <irid> Is adding a new string as simple as modifying "english.txt" ? 13:40:34 <Yexo> yes 13:40:44 <irid> What happens if a string doesn't exist in the current language? 13:40:54 <frosch123> it takes the english one 13:40:55 <Yexo> the english translatino is used 13:40:58 <PeterT> Hi all, back 13:40:59 <irid> Great :-) 13:41:04 <PeterT> andythenorth: I'm working 13:42:53 *** tdev [~tdev@p508EDFB6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:44:11 <PeterT> andythenorth: Do I ask for a pcx version, or do I convert it? 13:55:33 <OwenS> Hmm... How would it be best to key something off a signal? 13:55:50 <OwenS> (The simple option would be to key off the TileID, but there are multiple signals on some tiles...) 13:59:28 <OwenS> I suppose, unless we get 65536x65536 maps, it's safe to store it as TileIndex | (special_direction << 31)? 13:59:38 <Hirundo> What do you intend to do with this 'key'? 13:59:46 <OwenS> Hirundo: Store programmable signal programs 13:59:57 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db0f45c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:01:04 <Hirundo> So, to find the program associated with a signal, you use some sort of hash map? 14:05:15 *** ptr [~peter@90-227-166-229-no72.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 14:08:35 <OwenS> Hirundo: Yes 14:09:00 <OwenS> (Well, at present, an ordered map, but no reason it needs to maintain order) 14:10:26 <Hirundo> hmmm... do you allocate those programs in a pool? 14:10:30 <PeterT> "The amount of stations, vehicles, ships, etc that the following sprites represent" <-- Is this the number of trains in the pcx file? 14:10:38 <OwenS> Hirundo: Theyr'e just new'd 14:10:56 <PeterT> would it be seven for this one? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=865739#p865739 14:11:04 <Hirundo> How are you planning to store those pointers in a savegame? 14:11:35 <OwenS> Hirundo: I intend to write out the program map to the save file, collapsing the pointer based structure in the process 14:11:35 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba84fa.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:13:37 <andythenorth> PeterT: you're asking about action 1? 14:13:46 <PeterT> yes 14:13:52 <Hirundo> How will the user write his programs? Are they really that complex? 14:14:17 <andythenorth> PeterT: it would be 7 sets of 8 for the sprite you showed 14:14:27 <PeterT> Oh 14:14:33 <PeterT> of 8 what? 14:14:42 <andythenorth> each angle needs a 'real' sprite 14:15:17 <andythenorth> there are 8 angles 14:15:21 <OwenS> Hirundo: GUI :-) 14:15:23 *** tdev [~tdev@p508EDFB6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:15:38 <^4VAlien^> it seems that my ai code in \ai\myAI is ignored ? 14:15:45 <^4VAlien^> i cannot select it in the AI settings screen 14:15:46 <PeterT> oh, oh 14:15:50 <PeterT> thanks andythenorth 14:16:38 <Hirundo> OwenS: Sounds difficult, I'll see what you come up with :) 14:16:47 <OwenS> Hirundo: GUI will be hardest part :p 14:18:28 <andythenorth> frosch123, Yexo removing that check = win. Thanks :) 14:18:30 <PeterT> andythenorth: 2 * 4 01 00 07 08 // Action 1 14:18:31 <PeterT> ? 14:18:47 <andythenorth> looks ok to me. feature 00 is trains? 14:19:10 <PeterT> yes 14:19:16 <PeterT> This sets the type of feature that you wish to change. Set it to 14:19:16 <PeterT> 00 for trains 14:19:21 <andythenorth> that looks correct to me then 14:19:47 <Pikka> I keep meaning to put up versions of the sprite templates with extra height for pantographs... 14:19:55 <andythenorth> PeterT: do you know what would happen if you had 10 trains? 14:19:56 <PeterT> can I use return spaces as in the next action? 14:20:06 <PeterT> andythenorth: yes, change 07 to 10 14:20:08 <PeterT> right? 14:20:08 <andythenorth> nope 14:20:11 <andythenorth> it's hex 14:20:12 <OwenS> Hirundo: Now to track down everywhere in OpenTTD a tile could have signals removed from it or the signal type changed :p 14:20:13 <PeterT> then what 14:20:15 <PeterT> what is hex 14:20:22 <andythenorth> two choices. 14:20:25 <Pikka> 0A 14:20:28 <andythenorth> it's worth learning to count in hex 14:20:47 <andythenorth> 0A = 10, 0F = 15, 10 = 16. You can fill in the rest 14:20:52 <andythenorth> or use escapes 14:21:09 <PeterT> 0B = 11? 14:21:13 <PeterT> 0C = 12? 14:21:14 <andythenorth> yep 14:21:19 <PeterT> 0D = 13? 14:21:23 <PeterT> all the way to FF? 14:21:27 <Pikka> yep 14:21:29 <andythenorth> yup. FF = 255 14:21:39 <Pikka> or \b10 etc 14:21:42 <andythenorth> escapes are useful. 10 would be \b10 14:21:46 <Pikka> :D 14:21:46 <PeterT> why does 0F = 13, but 10 = 16? 14:21:50 * Pikka will shush now 14:21:56 <PeterT> No, keep going coding master 14:22:02 <Pikka> 0F = 15 14:22:06 <PeterT> Pikka: Also, your vehicle code confues me' 14:22:17 <Pikka> which bit, peter? 14:22:30 <PeterT> http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=A_vehicle_%28NFO%29#An_example 14:22:53 <Pikka> which part is confusing? :P 14:23:21 <PeterT> all of it :D 14:23:33 <PeterT> "1611 SPRITES\myloco.pcx" 14:23:37 <PeterT> why do you skip to 1611? 14:23:52 <Pikka> because I just cut and pasted that together... 14:24:08 <PeterT> ok 14:24:09 <Pikka> renum will fix the sprite numbers (and grfcodec actually doesn't care about sprite numbers these days afaia) 14:24:12 <andythenorth> PeterT: just use -1 for sprite numbers 14:24:17 <PeterT> why? 14:24:22 <andythenorth> easier 14:24:28 <PeterT> for every sprite number? 14:24:30 <Pikka> well 14:24:34 <andythenorth> it's a convention 14:24:50 <PeterT> http://paste.openttd.org/225339 14:24:51 <Pikka> andy says easier, but when you want to know where the error is having a sprite number is helpful ;) 14:25:13 <PeterT> but he said that renum fixes the sprite numbers 14:26:18 <andythenorth> PeterT: I am too used to the coop makefile system 14:26:27 <andythenorth> that works a bit differently 14:26:37 <andythenorth> carry on as you are :) 14:27:02 <PeterT> Stop confusing me :-P 14:27:13 <PeterT> is this ok? http://paste.openttd.org/225339 14:27:18 *** fjb [~frank@p5485E97E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:27:23 *** fjb_ [~frank@p5485E79E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:28:02 <andythenorth> you seem to have an empty action 2 at the start of the file? If I've read it right... 14:28:08 <andythenorth> line 4 14:28:22 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 14:28:26 <Pikka> that'd be sprite 0, andy :) 14:28:39 <andythenorth> yup 14:28:41 <PeterT> I should ask someone not addicated to makefiles 14:28:44 <andythenorth> heh 14:29:25 <Pikka> renum will put the right numbers in there, too 14:29:28 <andythenorth> so now you just need your real sprites and an action 0 and an action 3 ;) 14:29:43 <andythenorth> do you need a pcx still? 14:30:27 <PeterT> yes 14:30:35 <PeterT> I'm googling how to convert it 14:32:04 * Pikka vaguely remembers that grfcodec can read pngs these days too... 14:32:47 <andythenorth> PeterT: check your pm 14:33:03 <PeterT> thanks! 14:33:10 <andythenorth> it's a nasty hack. you''ll need to learn about the blue background mask 14:33:24 <andythenorth> I've just flood filled most of the file, but normally they are drawn neatly 14:33:43 <andythenorth> PeterT: like so http://tt-foundry.com/sets/isr_vehicles 14:34:15 <andythenorth> actually these are better - uses Zephyris' template http://tt-foundry.com/sets/heavy_equipment 14:34:38 <PeterT> I have no idea what you're talking about 14:34:47 <PeterT> Slow down 14:34:52 <andythenorth> keep up :P 14:35:14 <andythenorth> frosch123 Yexo if that check is removed, does the related advanced option need removing? 14:35:50 <frosch123> i just renamed it to "STR_CONFIG_SETTING_ALLOW_CLOSE_CONFLICTING_INDUSTRY :{LTBLUE}Industries of the same chain can be built close to each other: {ORANGE}{STRING1}" 14:36:23 <andythenorth> Is the option actually required though? 14:36:46 * andythenorth thinks 14:36:47 <frosch123> it allows building forrests near sawmills etc 14:37:00 <frosch123> i.e. ignoring of the "conflicting industry types" properies 14:37:26 <Pikka> yuk 14:37:32 <frosch123> if you have a better description of the setting it would be fine 14:37:39 <frosch123> but the old one was quite wrong :p 14:37:59 * Pikka doesn't like player options which override newgrf properties... :P 14:38:28 <frosch123> well, it does not override cb28... so removing it completely might be useful as well 14:38:46 * Pikka added extra-height templates for 7 and 8/8 length vehicles to the wiki... I hope I got the numbers right 'cause I didn't test 'em. :) 14:38:59 <andythenorth> the setting doesn't seem to permit a sawmill to be built near a forest anyway 14:39:01 *** fjb_ [~frank@p5485E79E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:39:18 *** fjb_ [~frank@p5485E79E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:39:23 <frosch123> i changed that, before it worked only in one direction :p 14:39:47 <frosch123> don't make fun of it :p 14:40:50 * andythenorth is confused about what that setting does do :o 14:40:54 <andythenorth> do any of us know? 14:41:20 <frosch123> yeah, maybe removing it is not that bad 14:41:44 <frosch123> then i also do not have to think about a good description 14:41:52 <andythenorth> less work : 14:41:54 <andythenorth> :) 14:43:00 <andythenorth> do we get the unintended consequence that the default game can built two factories (for example) next to each other now? 14:43:13 <andythenorth> or is that covered by forbid multiple same type industry per town? 14:43:48 <frosch123> unless you build them between to towns, yes 14:45:46 <andythenorth> doesn't an industry always belong to a town? 14:46:00 <PeterT> andythenorth: where do I find this info for the trains: xpos ypos compression ysize xsize xrel yrel 14:46:14 <frosch123> yes, but one might belong to town a and the other to town b, while they are directly next to each other 14:46:19 <andythenorth> hmm 14:46:22 <Pikka> http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=Sprite_templates PeterT 14:46:31 <PeterT> ok 14:46:33 <Pikka> but you might have to do a bit of image editing :) 14:46:52 <andythenorth> frosch123: I'll happily test a diff if you have one - to see if there are strange consequences :) 14:47:06 <andythenorth> I'll test for default - not FIRS. 14:47:25 <PeterT> fuck - why can't they just give me a ready pcx 14:47:54 <PeterT> that would be too simple, right? 14:48:06 <Pikka> PeterT: point them to that page, say "template your sprites plz". 14:49:10 <PeterT> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=865872#p865872 14:49:56 <andythenorth> PeterT: so xpos and ypos you have to measure. which is why sticking to a standard template is a good idea 14:50:07 <andythenorth> same for ysize and xsize 14:50:08 <PeterT> argh 14:50:13 <andythenorth> compression I ignore 14:50:36 <andythenorth> xrel and yrel are a bit of a pain, you just to have to make the best guess, test and tweak 14:51:15 <andythenorth> xpos is 4 and ypos is 14 in the file I sent you 14:51:51 <Pikka> andy: well... you don't /have/ to guess... if you're using the templates it's all good, if you've modified the size from the templates a little then you can calculate 14:52:00 <andythenorth> PeterT: try coding one that already has a template...like the class 20 14:52:05 <andythenorth> you can replace the sprites later 14:52:20 <andythenorth> it helps to work through one without this extra pcx hassle 14:52:32 <PeterT> class 20 where? 14:52:40 <Pikka> for non-train vehicles I tend to stick the sprite in the middle of a big blue square and use the same dimensions/offsets for every sprite :P let grfcodec do the work for me. 14:52:47 <andythenorth> PeterT: in the bros zip I sent 14:55:37 <andythenorth> PeterT: you can use that pcx and the action 1 real sprites. then you can see if the rest of your grf works 14:56:00 <PeterT> how does this look? http://paste.openttd.org/225340 14:56:21 <andythenorth> move your real sprites down to the action 1 14:56:28 <Pikka> shame NLTiger's vehicle lengths are all over the place... :) 14:57:04 <PeterT> http://paste.openttd.org/225341 14:57:30 <andythenorth> PeterT: yup (I think) 14:57:41 <PeterT> let's renum then 14:58:00 <PeterT> http://paste.openttd.org/225342 14:58:00 <Pikka> good, except you've got one sprite set when you said there'd be seven ;) 14:58:31 <andythenorth> renum should tell you about that :) 14:59:07 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn12-192.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 14:59:27 <PeterT> "//!!Error (56): Offset 5: Sprite set 01 does not appear in the preceeding Action 1 (sprite 1). 14:59:27 <PeterT> " 14:59:48 <Pikka> if you only have one sprite set, it's set 0 15:00:22 <Pikka> 7 sets will be 0-6, not 1-7 15:00:23 <andythenorth> it counts from 0 15:00:30 <andythenorth> so the first set is 00 15:00:48 <andythenorth> but you need to declare 01 or \b1 15:00:56 <PeterT> oh 15:01:57 <andythenorth> renum thinks something is wrong with your action 8 as well 15:02:12 <PeterT> fuck you renum 15:02:22 <andythenorth> oh....your action 8 is commented. and .....naughty 15:02:30 <andythenorth> not too much swearing here 15:02:38 <PeterT> No, it's probably not renum's fault 15:02:57 <PeterT> action 8 can't be commented? 15:03:04 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@81.107.119-80.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 15:03:20 <andythenorth> not really 15:03:30 <andythenorth> not commented out 15:03:43 <PeterT> /!!Error (56): Offset 5: Sprite set 01 does not appear in the preceeding Action 1 (sprite 2). 15:03:58 <andythenorth> paste your current code 15:04:01 <PeterT> never mind, changed to 00 15:04:07 <PeterT> like you said before 15:04:19 <andythenorth> paste.... 15:04:29 <PeterT> http://paste.openttd.org/225343 15:04:54 <andythenorth> so you need to declare 1 set 15:05:28 <andythenorth> you're falling victim to the 'off by one' problem :) It hits most people 15:05:30 <PeterT> where? 15:05:33 <andythenorth> first set is 00 15:05:38 <andythenorth> but the count is then 1 15:05:45 <andythenorth> so declare 1 15:05:52 <PeterT> [11:05:22] <PeterT> where? 15:05:55 <andythenorth> in the action 1 15:06:09 <andythenorth> 01 // number of sprites 15:06:16 <andythenorth> or \b1 // number of sprites 15:06:57 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.A212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 15:07:17 <PeterT> /!!Error (56): Offset 5: Sprite set 01 does not appear in the preceeding Action 1 (sprite 2). 15:07:20 <andythenorth> yep 15:07:32 <andythenorth> so now we change your action 2 to refer to sprite set 00 15:07:39 <andythenorth> ....which is the first set 15:07:52 <andythenorth> use this: 00 00 // loaded sprites 15:08:10 <andythenorth> then renum and paste again 15:08:20 <PeterT> /!!For feature 0 the following cargoIDs have not been used since their most recent definition: 15:08:20 <PeterT> /!!A1 (last defined at sprite 11) 15:08:29 <PeterT> that's the one I get stuck at 15:08:32 *** Tennel [~Tennel@pD9529776.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.1.1] 15:08:32 <PeterT> do you need my code? 15:08:55 *** Tennel [~Tennel@pD9529776.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:09:12 <Pikka> well, it hasn't. 15:09:26 <Pikka> you have a "real" action 2, and... then nothing. 15:09:51 <PeterT> So it's giving me an error because I built half of a house? 15:09:58 <PeterT> metaphorically 15:10:01 <andythenorth> so now you need an action 3 which will use the action (cargo ID) 15:10:07 <andythenorth> meh 15:10:11 <PeterT> ok 15:10:12 <andythenorth> action 2 (cargoID) 15:10:15 <PeterT> then I'm making progress 15:11:23 <andythenorth> I'll give you the action 3 15:11:45 <PeterT> No - don't 15:11:48 <PeterT> let me try it first 15:11:49 <andythenorth> ok 15:11:59 <andythenorth> well it's here if you can resist temptation 15:12:00 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttd.org/225344 15:12:01 <PeterT> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action3? 15:12:04 <andythenorth> can you resist? 15:12:35 <PeterT> No, I couldn't 15:12:43 <PeterT> I clicked it within 2 seconds of you posting 15:13:10 <andythenorth> kids today - no willpower :o 15:13:15 * andythenorth is shocked 15:13:45 <PeterT> Kids? 15:13:47 <PeterT> :-P 15:15:37 <andythenorth> solved it yet? 15:16:29 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r19499 /trunk/src/ (51 files in 4 dirs): -Remove: same_industry_close setting did not do what it said and caused NewGRF trouble. 15:17:41 <PeterT> I'm trying to understand what yours means 15:17:59 <irid> Is there a way to make openttd not ask for confirmation on exit? 15:17:59 <PeterT> 12 * 7 03 00 01 20 // Action 3 15:18:08 <PeterT> irid: console -> "quit" 15:18:16 <PeterT> what is the "20" stand for? 15:18:21 <PeterT> s/is/does/ 15:18:28 <irid> I mean, if I hit ctrl-c at the linux command line, it asks me if I want to quit 15:18:35 <irid> I don't want to SIGTERM it. 15:18:40 <irid> (if possible) 15:19:30 <Pikka> PeterT: weren't you just looking at the wiki page? 15:19:38 <PeterT> I am still 15:19:50 <PeterT> but... 15:19:56 <PeterT> ah, nevermind 15:20:08 <Ammler> andythenorth: you do include tractors in FIRS? 15:20:34 *** lobstah is now known as lobster 15:26:35 <PeterT> I just don't get it 15:26:41 <PeterT> why do you pick an id of "20"? 15:28:24 <andythenorth> probably because it was for the class 20 - tickles my sense of humour :) 15:28:39 <PeterT> So it's random? 15:28:40 <andythenorth> just change the ID to the one you are using 15:28:52 <PeterT> what?! 15:28:55 <PeterT> what am I using? 15:28:59 <andythenorth> the ID is what connects all the actions for a vehicle 15:29:19 <andythenorth> ah 15:29:23 *** fjb_ [~frank@p5485E79E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:29:25 <andythenorth> you haven't declare an action 0 yet 15:29:30 <andythenorth> so you don't really have any IDs 15:29:39 <andythenorth> may as well use 00 15:29:50 <andythenorth> so change the ID to 00 15:30:01 <andythenorth> Ammler: tractors in FIRS? 15:30:05 <andythenorth> tractors in HEQS yes 15:30:13 <PeterT> Ok, thanks 15:30:27 <PeterT> when shall I declare action0? 15:30:33 <andythenorth> now? :) 15:30:54 <andythenorth> I normally do it first, before action 1/2/3 Pikka seems to do it the other way 15:31:19 <andythenorth> PeterT: you have this file, but anyway: http://paste.openttd.org/225345 15:31:34 <andythenorth> action 0,4, 1, 2, 3 15:31:40 <andythenorth> as taught to me by Zephyris 15:31:40 <PeterT> Oh, right 15:32:50 <^4VAlien^> i have some very simple AI code on a small map, but it prints the same town name twice instead of both names with the builtin foreach loop? : http://paste.openttd.org/225346 15:34:06 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@119.11.34.221] has joined #openttd 15:38:00 <frosch123> drop the GetValue 15:38:25 <^4VAlien^> doh :( 15:38:30 <frosch123> AILog.Info(aTown.GetName(aIndex)+" "+aTown.GetPopulation(aIndex)); <- i would expect that 15:39:41 <PeterT> andythenorth: why do we use \b12? 15:39:45 <PeterT> is that hex for 12? 15:39:54 <andythenorth> no that's an escape 15:39:57 <PeterT> meaning I could also use \b1234? 15:40:02 <PeterT> what is an escape? 15:40:02 <andythenorth> no 15:40:14 <andythenorth> because it's a byte, and can only hold a value up to 255 15:40:17 <Pikka> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=GRFActionsDetailed 15:40:17 <PeterT> you use it in action 0 # 15:40:17 <PeterT> -1 * 1 00 00 \b12 01 20 // Action 0 15:40:34 <Pikka> In Info version 7 and later (supported by grfcodec version 0.9.9 and later), grfcodec can do some of this work for you. Instead of doing the above, you may use any of the following escape sequences: 15:40:35 <frosch123> escapes are stuff starting with "\" 15:40:36 <Pikka> etc 15:40:36 <andythenorth> so grfcodec converts escapes into bytes or words or dwords 15:40:44 <PeterT> Thanks Pikka 15:40:59 <PeterT> why do I have info version 5? :\ 15:41:47 *** fjb_ [~frank@p5485E6C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:42:06 <Pikka> who knows, PeterT.... 15:42:30 <PeterT> DaleStan: why would one have info version 5 instead of info version 7? 15:43:04 <Pikka> peter: because there's a "5" in the header instead of a "7"? 15:43:40 <PeterT> Oh 15:43:53 <PeterT> I thought it was some strange NFORenum version mixup :S 15:44:04 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@80.119.107.81] has joined #openttd 15:45:19 <PeterT> I'm going to take a break 15:45:26 <PeterT> I have to write up an essay 15:48:34 <OwenS> Hmm, fun 15:48:39 <OwenS> I apppear to have broken combo signals 15:48:47 <OwenS> And entry signals 15:49:06 <Pikka> oh well, never mind :D 15:49:23 <OwenS> Only in the case where there are no exit signals behind them; I know my error :p 15:53:14 <andythenorth> frosch123: the removal of that check doesn't appear to have nasty consequences for default industries 15:53:19 <andythenorth> my tests are limited mind you :) 15:53:24 <OwenS> YAAY! The progsigs VM just successfully executed a program :-) 15:54:05 <Hirundo> Is the VM language turing-complete? :) 15:54:06 <andythenorth> with 'allow multiple same industry per town' on, it's as you might expect - same industries can be adjacent 15:54:30 <OwenS> http://paste.openttd.org/225348 15:54:32 <OwenS> Hirundo: Not yet 15:54:45 <OwenS> Hirundo: For a start, no variables 15:55:13 <frosch123> andythenorth: i guess that ttd restriction was to give them unique names 15:55:39 <OwenS> OK, to change all references to NAND to programmable :p 15:55:56 <Hirundo> I would scratch out the 'yet' and adhere to the KISS principle :P 15:56:21 <OwenS> Hirundo: A few vars may turn out useful. You never know :p 15:56:39 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd 15:58:22 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Administr@89.246.195.99] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:58:37 <Hirundo> It'd be nice if both 'xor eax, eax' and 'mov eax, 0' would be supported ;) 15:58:51 <OwenS> Hirundo: Huh? 15:59:12 * Hirundo forgot that not everyone can read assembly 15:59:20 <OwenS> I can, but don't see the relavence 15:59:43 <Hirundo> nvm, there is none 16:01:03 <andythenorth> frosch123: we could name them planned-economy-style: "Hindinghead Factory Number 4" 16:03:53 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.A212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 16:07:04 <Pikka> goodnight children 16:07:11 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@CPE-58-173-248-50.szxn1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 16:11:28 *** Tennel [~Tennel@pD9529776.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.1.1] 16:17:02 *** lewymati [~lewymati@89.230.159.206] has quit [] 16:19:23 <andythenorth> afk 16:25:01 *** fjb_ [~frank@p5485E6C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:30:05 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.159] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:39:37 <^4VAlien^> which editors have good squirrel support ? 16:39:45 <DaleStan> <PeterT> Why would one have info version 5 instead of info version 7? <-- because you didn't use any Info version 6 or 7 features, and there was no header telling NFORenum to use any particular version. 16:40:37 *** elmz [~elmz@ti0031a380-0504.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:43:23 *** fjb [~frank@p5485BFC8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:49:51 <OwenS> Where would be an appropriate place in the saveload for saving signal programs? 16:49:54 <OwenS> map_sl? 16:52:33 *** Tennel [~Tennel@pD9529776.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:53:18 <Eddi|zuHause> make a new chunk? 16:53:26 <Eddi|zuHause> and a signal_sl.cpp? 16:53:32 <OwenS> OK, so new file :p 16:53:55 <OwenS> Now to work out how to load complex things :p 17:01:20 <OwenS> For a RIFF chunk, do I need to know the size of it before I write it out? It seems I do... 17:10:38 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.128] has joined #openttd 17:11:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd assume the size can be fixed later 17:11:16 <PeterT> DaleStan: Thanks 17:11:44 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Unfortunately, SlSetLength seems to just write out the length straight away. i.e, if I call it later, it seems that it will put it at the end of the chunk... 17:12:49 <Eddi|zuHause> can't you do it as a pool or something? 17:13:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd presume they have a predefined saveload function 17:14:50 <OwenS> The chunk types are "CH_RIFF, CH_ARRAY, CH_SPARSE_ARRAY, CH_TYPE_MASK". 17:15:12 <OwenS> I think OpenTTD makes the assumption that most data is in an array or such, which with my instructions, it isn't 17:16:52 *** MattD [~Matt@cpe-74-65-230-34.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:18:42 <Rubidium> CH_TYPE_MASK isn't a chunk type? 17:18:58 <OwenS> Rubidium: Woops, lol 17:19:35 <OwenS> It's in sequence with the others, no space, misread... 17:21:26 <Muxy> Hello men 17:22:01 <Muxy> Rubidium: what was weong with the vehicle in the "Disconnecting Road Vehicle" trouble ? 17:22:04 <Muxy> *wrong 17:23:00 *** Timmaexx [~Germany@port-92-192-196-150.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 17:25:19 *** Timmaexx [~Germany@port-92-192-196-150.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28:18 *** Adambean [~AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 17:43:53 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 17:46:33 *** MattD [~Matt@cpe-74-65-230-34.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:50:08 <OwenS> Ok, Save_SPRG written... 17:50:13 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has joined #openttd 17:59:25 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 18:00:05 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 18:08:05 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: a1270] 18:13:51 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 18:15:15 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.128] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:17:52 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:20:48 *** DaleStan [~Dale@c-24-12-4-37.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:21:40 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 18:21:59 * andythenorth experiments with the production cb 18:22:46 *** Sevalecan [Sevalecan@24-247-215-148.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has joined #openttd 18:22:48 <Eddi|zuHause> does it blow up? 18:23:09 <Sevalecan> is there any way through openttd.cfg to reenable changing newgrfs ingame? :P 18:23:23 <OwenS> Sevalecan: You can still change them ingame 18:23:37 <Sevalecan> hmm, all of the controls were grayed out on me 18:23:51 <OwenS> That should only happen if connected to a server 18:24:10 <Sevalecan> oh, I must've still had it in multiplayer mode ::) 18:24:14 <Sevalecan> its working now \o/ 18:28:18 *** IvanStepaniuk [~istepaniu@71.Red-88-14-101.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 18:29:43 <andythenorth> hmmm 18:30:27 <andythenorth> ttdp wiki: industry special flags bit 15 means "The production callback needs random bits in var. 10 (No industry has this bit set by default.)" 18:30:52 <andythenorth> but cb 29 documentation says "Variable 18 contains 32 random bits to help randomizing the decision:" 18:31:24 <andythenorth> are both correct? 18:31:26 <frosch123> you are confusing production callback with change-production callback 18:31:44 <andythenorth> yes 18:31:49 <andythenorth> that happens often :| 18:31:55 <andythenorth> thanks 18:32:01 <andythenorth> all is fine 18:33:25 <frosch123> don't ask me though why it needs a bit to activate that 18:33:33 <frosch123> :) 18:34:31 <OwenS> frosch123: TTDP devs consider random bits expensive? 18:35:14 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc3-pres13-2-0-cust333.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:35:47 <frosch123> i would consider calling a production callback far more expensive then doing some random 18:36:15 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 18:36:18 <OwenS> "SignalInstruction ***i" <-- It's official. I've become a three star programmer... 18:37:08 <frosch123> last time i had that, i changed it into **& 18:37:35 <OwenS> I can't because it's what SmallVector gives me 18:38:22 <OwenS> (It's in my post-load pointer fixup code) 18:45:21 <OwenS> Whats the correct way to bail out during a load? 18:45:31 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r19500 /trunk/src/lang/ (brazilian_portuguese.txt esperanto.txt): 18:45:31 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:31 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: esperanto - 2 changes by kristjan 18:45:31 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: greek - 4 changes by 18:45:31 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 2 changes by 18:45:32 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 2 changes by leandromoh 18:51:20 *** fjb [~frank@p5485BFC8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:36 <andythenorth> interesting 18:53:39 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 18:53:54 <andythenorth> default industries randomise their production amounts on map generation 18:54:00 <andythenorth> newgrf industries do not 18:54:36 * andythenorth wonders about nfo code for that 18:55:58 <OwenS> SignalIf* i = static_cast<SignalIf*>(i); <--- I wonder whats wrong with that code... 18:57:56 <SpComb^> same name for both? 18:58:09 <OwenS> SpComb^: static cast an uninitialized variable to itself... 18:58:24 <SpComb^> doesn't make much sense to me 18:58:33 <OwenS> SpComb^: Exactly :P 19:02:24 <frosch123> andythenorth: i guess only for smooth economy 19:02:32 <^4VAlien^> damn .. after 1 day my AI can: 1. build bus stations 2. ???? 3. PROFIT $$$ 19:02:41 * andythenorth tests economy settings 19:03:56 <OwenS> Hehe. I somehow thing OpenTTD's crashdumper wasn't expecting the save process to crash :p 19:04:15 <andythenorth> frosch123: yup you guess right 19:04:31 <andythenorth> guess I've been playing smooth economy for years :o 19:06:23 * andythenorth ponders some trickery with random bits in registers 19:07:04 <IvanStepaniuk> hi there! i didn't expect so much ppl on this channel 19:07:40 <dih> yarp 19:07:49 <andythenorth> hmm no cb to modify industry props 12 and 13 19:07:51 <IvanStepaniuk> I've played ttd back in the old times, now a linux user for a decade just rediscovered this great game 19:08:08 <Alberth> welcome 19:08:11 <andythenorth> hi hi 19:08:28 <andythenorth> meh. randomising can wait 19:08:42 <Alberth> the game is a bit extended in the mean time :) 19:08:43 <IvanStepaniuk> i'd like to play multiplayer but i'm not ready to be smashed yet :P 19:09:24 <Alberth> there are also co-operative playing style servers, I think 19:09:28 <dih> define smashed? 19:09:51 <dih> on some servers you will be left to your self 19:09:58 <dih> you get to play and do your thing 19:10:26 <IvanStepaniuk> nice 19:10:34 <Alberth> we have those servers too :) 19:10:46 <dih> dont be discouraged in finding them :-P 19:13:05 <IvanStepaniuk> i have a newbie question. i've noticed that when transporting passengers, they don't have a desired destination, but all the passengers in a train just get off at the same time in the first station the trains stops 19:13:23 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:13:32 <PeterT> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=41992 19:13:35 <Alberth> yep, that has not changed in official openttd 19:14:19 <Alberth> PeterT no doubt points to a experimental cargo destination branch 19:14:49 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 19:15:08 <IvanStepaniuk> interesting 19:19:57 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc3-pres13-2-0-cust333.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:21:27 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm109.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:23:23 *** IvanStepaniuk [~istepaniu@71.Red-88-14-101.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #openttd [] 19:23:37 *** IvanStepaniuk [~istepaniu@71.Red-88-14-101.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 19:23:59 <andythenorth> hmm 19:24:20 <andythenorth> so industry prop 12 and 13 control production of output cargos 1 and 2 19:24:50 <andythenorth> (or set the initial values) 19:25:06 <andythenorth> but cb 29 and 35 change both cargos 19:25:20 <andythenorth> so output can't be controlled per cargo? 19:25:32 <andythenorth> hmm 19:25:55 <andythenorth> normally not an issue. Just fooling with how the oil rig produces passengers 19:26:27 * andythenorth could use the production cb to control the passenger production 19:27:39 <Terkhen> I never understood why the oil rig produces passengers 19:27:48 <andythenorth> for fun 19:28:01 <Rubidium> Terkhen: because it accepts them? 19:28:06 <Rubidium> to make helicopters useful? 19:28:08 <andythenorth> plus I think Chris Sawyer grew up in scotland....maybe it's a sentimental thing about North Sea oil 19:28:14 <andythenorth> and what Rubidium said 19:28:28 <andythenorth> they go in....so they have to come out :) 19:28:39 <andythenorth> never mind how inconsistent that is with other parts of the game resp. passengers 19:29:31 <andythenorth> anyway my oil rig also accepts engineering supplies. I have a whole world of ship based excitement planned around that :D 19:29:42 <andythenorth> shame that ships can't have two cargos though 19:29:50 <IvanStepaniuk> thanks, i just hope the whole cargodist thing will be merged into trunk some day 19:30:05 <Terkhen> yes, it is inconsistent... but giving helicopters something to do makes sense 19:30:23 <andythenorth> Terkhen....you were looking for a project....how about implementing two cargos for ships in same way as planes? 19:30:28 <IvanStepaniuk> the HQ produces passengers :) 19:30:42 <andythenorth> some of the industries accept passengers (but don't produce them) 19:31:31 <planetmaker> hello 19:31:32 <IvanStepaniuk> makes sense, ppl have to work there... also receive and send small amounts of mail 19:31:50 <andythenorth> planetmaker: hi hi 19:32:22 * planetmaker likes Oil rigs as hub terminals to exchange passengers and other cargo between companies ;-) 19:32:33 <andythenorth> meh 19:32:54 <Alberth> outside territorial waters :) 19:34:50 <planetmaker> hehe, pirate haven or heaven ;-) 19:35:28 <andythenorth> http://www.sealandgov.org/ 19:35:36 <Terkhen> andythenorth: sounds really complicated :P 19:35:47 <andythenorth> Terkhen nah 19:36:07 <andythenorth> how do planes do it? they just use the shadow? 19:36:29 <Terkhen> IIRC it is the shadow what carries the second cargo, yes 19:36:38 <planetmaker> lol? 19:36:52 *** goblin_ [~goblin@krlh-5f72256a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:37:23 <fonsinchen> I still wonder if, provided I go and fix the remaining coding style issues with cargodist, any dev would be willing to review it and help me get it ready for trunk ... 19:37:27 <andythenorth> just do an invisible shadow for ships 19:37:34 <andythenorth> or we could use it for smoke... 19:38:01 <andythenorth> it's simpler than articulated rvs 19:38:06 <planetmaker> andythenorth: it rather calls for a decent implementation of arbitrary cargo arangement than another hack extended 19:38:27 <andythenorth> sometimes the perfect is the enemy of the good 19:38:37 <andythenorth> how many cargos do we want a ship to carry? 19:38:56 <planetmaker> 12? 19:39:39 <planetmaker> food and goods and aluminum and steel and engineering supplies and farm supplies and fruit and ... 19:39:54 <Alberth> 4000+ (one for each container :p ) 19:40:08 <planetmaker> hehe 19:40:16 <andythenorth> yeah, irl 19:40:34 <andythenorth> and articulated ships for my log raft might be more realistic 19:40:37 <andythenorth> but I don't really care 19:41:03 <andythenorth> two would be plenty :) 19:41:11 <OwenS> Alberth: IRL, of those 4000, 3999 iare "Goods" :p 19:41:27 * andythenorth thinks about how the refit menu would work 19:41:31 <Alberth> ok, so 2 would be adequate then :) 19:41:45 <andythenorth> nah. two cargos sucks. Think of the refit menu.... 19:41:52 <andythenorth> 32 x 32 combinations! 19:41:53 <OwenS> It shouldn't be too much work to store two cargos? 19:42:12 <Alberth> if you make an nfo spec change, perhaps make it 3 or 4 to be on the safe side. 19:42:22 * andythenorth realises why planes carry either 'passengers and mail' or just one freight cargo 19:42:27 <andythenorth> even in AV8 etc 19:42:37 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@188.126.205.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:42:39 <andythenorth> it would be major GUI suck 19:43:17 <OwenS> Error: NOT_REACHED triggered at line 162 of /home/oshepherd/Projects/OpenTTD/logic/src/saveload/signal_sl.cpp <- Baah 19:44:17 <andythenorth> poop 19:45:06 <andythenorth> hmm...how might a better refit GUI work? 19:46:35 *** IvanStepaniuk [~istepaniu@71.Red-88-14-101.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #openttd [] 19:46:38 <OwenS> andythenorth: Vehicle has slots, and you select whats in each from a combo? 19:47:31 <Terkhen> how does refit work with trains that can carry multiple kinds of cargo? 19:47:49 <OwenS> Terkhen: You refit to X, and those which can carry X refit 19:47:54 <andythenorth> Terkhen: depends on what the vehicles are refittable to 19:48:10 *** PetahT [~PetahT@c-65-96-65-79.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 19:48:18 <andythenorth> quite often there's a bit of depot shuffling...if you want box cars with 50% cargo 1 and 50% cargo 2 for example 19:48:26 <OwenS> Yay! Other than a small bug in my sanity checking code (i.e, i'm loading whats gotta be a pointer to an If, lets make sure it's a pointer to an If), my save load code worked first time :-D 19:48:33 <Alberth> OwenS: something like that indeed. Would you have cargo capacities associated as well? 19:48:41 <andythenorth> ships and planes would be best with simply 2 refit buttons 19:48:51 <OwenS> Alberth: Hmm, thats an interesting connumdrum 19:49:02 <andythenorth> it is tricky 19:49:20 <Alberth> with trains we have it in the sense that each wagon has a capacity 19:49:35 *** PetahT [~PetahT@c-65-96-65-79.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 19:49:46 <andythenorth> if the player can allocate capacity to each slot, then it makes set design kind of weird 19:50:09 <andythenorth> player can buy any size ship they like. Sounds like freedom, but player freedom isn't always good for gameplay! 19:50:12 * Alberth imagines a kind of drag/drop of capacity to configure a ship 19:50:59 <andythenorth> while designing FISH I've had in mind 'hold capacity' and 'deck or cabin capacity' 19:51:08 <andythenorth> this is kind of close to some real ships 19:51:10 <Alberth> but you may be right, a user gets already to pick which ship he/she wants, that should be enough 19:52:14 <OwenS> Hmm... Should I upload a preliminary (i.e. backends there, but gui isn't) version of the programmable signals patch to the forums or not? 19:52:24 <andythenorth> I think it would be better to have two slots, the capacity of each is set by the newgrf designer 19:54:32 *** lewymati [~lewymati@89.230.159.206] has joined #openttd 19:55:07 <Hirundo> OwenS: I'd certainly like to take a look :) 19:55:28 <OwenS> OK, i'll append a preliminary version to the NandNG topic 19:58:23 * andythenorth tries to understand aircraft code 20:00:35 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.159] has joined #openttd 20:00:52 <andythenorth> aircraft code looks like it was written with some love :) 20:02:48 <OwenS> Hmm, how often is the Git repo updated? 20:03:06 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba84fa.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:03:10 <frosch123> do they still use Finite sTate mAchines? 20:03:45 <frosch123> yup, still FTA :p 20:04:21 <planetmaker> dunno... is that supposed to change? 20:05:25 <frosch123> oh, it is an Automata 20:05:38 <OwenS> Hirundo: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=47690&p=865941#p865941 20:06:04 <Alberth> OwenS: with each commit, afaik 20:06:19 <OwenS> Alberth: Yeah, seems my config was wrong 20:06:28 <OwenS> "git pull origin master" wasn't merging in changes :s 20:07:16 <OwenS> New patch 73k, old 39k. I'm surprised the change from NAND -> Prog is so little 20:10:26 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@188.126.205.150] has joined #openttd 20:10:39 <Hirundo> first thing that struck me: what is the point of SetOtherNext? Is other->SetNext so bad? 20:11:19 <OwenS> Hirundo: It's protected; can't access it. Perhaps I should have just made it all public 20:11:58 <OwenS> Though generally code shouldn't be randomly setting the Next/Previous values 20:12:56 <Hirundo> SetOtherNext does just that, as far as I can tell 20:13:16 <OwenS> Hirundo: Because it's implemented in SignalInstruction, rather than a subclass, it can access it. C++ access rules are weird 20:16:15 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.159] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16:16 <Hirundo> http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Coding_style may be a good read, at least the sections regarding comments, pointers and order of members in class definitions 20:17:16 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.159] has joined #openttd 20:17:20 <OwenS> Hirundo: Aah, goot catch on the pointers 20:20:08 <Hirundo> SignalSimpleCondition is the only descendant of SignalCondition? 20:20:14 <OwenS> Hirundo: For now 20:20:49 <OwenS> I'll probably add logical operators and such in future 20:23:11 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc3-pres13-2-0-cust333.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:23:31 <Hirundo> Also, (as per coding style) please use this->Method() instead of just Method(), it increases readability 20:25:21 <Hirundo> The code should not leak signals, instead of cleaning them up when saving 20:25:39 <OwenS> Hirundo: Thats there to check, I do intend to go through and make sure it doesn't leak 20:25:58 <OwenS> I've made sure that rail_cmd's commands don't leak 20:25:59 * andythenorth wonders where oil rig passenger production will cap out 20:26:27 <OwenS> (It's an error debug for a reason!) 20:28:22 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:28:51 <andythenorth> frosch123: industry prod. multipliers would be useful to see in debug 20:29:34 <frosch123> aren't they displayed if you enable the change production cheat? 20:29:46 <frosch123> (though maybe that is disabled for newgrf stuff) 20:30:09 <Yexo> it's enabled, it just often doesn't work as you would expect 20:30:23 <Yexo> due to newgrfs ignoring the old value ahd computing the new one from other values 20:30:44 <frosch123> it does definitely not work if the industry does production by production callback only 20:31:00 <andythenorth> yup 20:32:45 * andythenorth could do with some help on oil rig PAX, but thinks it will be dull for the rest of you :o 20:34:37 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8df6d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:35:00 <Hirundo> What are the tile/track variables on the SignalVM used for? 20:35:36 <OwenS> Hirundo: Nothing at present 20:36:05 <Hirundo> Also please use the SignalState (IIRC) enum instead of booleans to store the signal state 20:37:23 <OwenS> Hirundo: Will do. I misremembered that enum being more complex 20:38:16 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8df6d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:39:49 *** lewymati [~lewymati@89.230.159.206] has quit [] 20:41:18 <Hirundo> By the name of it, I would have expected SignalVM to be more than a container 20:41:57 <OwenS> Perhaps I should move RunSignalProgram's body into it 20:43:10 <Yexo> Hirundo: /* While loops are supported as well: */ <- any ideas on how to support while loops in nfo? 20:43:24 <Hirundo> Action9 can jump backwards 20:43:31 <Yexo> does that work properly? 20:43:40 *** lewymati [~lewymati@89.230.159.206] has joined #openttd 20:43:46 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttd.org/225349 20:44:09 <Hirundo> At least, Ammler's base cost grf uses it IIRC 20:44:24 <planetmaker> yup 20:44:47 <Hirundo> OwenS: That's what I thought 20:44:55 <frosch123> it works likely better in ottd than ttdp 20:46:49 <Yexo> Note that it is generally not safe to skip backwards, i.e. to an earlier position. While the patch will happily do that, you will get strange results if certain actions are repeated. Only action 0, 6, 7, 9, C and D are reasonably safe to execute more than once. <- from the spec 20:48:30 <frosch123> i guess B and E are also safe, but pointless :) 20:49:23 <Hirundo> Perhaps a patch dev (dalestan?) could provide more info 20:49:38 <Yexo> action0 is pointless to if you don't use an action6 to rewrite it 20:50:03 <Yexo> so that leaves no reason to support a while loop 20:50:22 <frosch123> Hirundo: ottd only reads the sprites and then build a structure in memory for everything. but for ttdp the actions are already the structure 20:50:26 *** woldemar [~osaka@213.178.34.57] has quit [Quit: ã§ãã¯æ»çšœãããªãã§ããç§ã¯æ¬æ°ã§ãã] 20:51:00 <frosch123> that is everything needed outside of grf loading (in game) cannot be looped, as it exists only once 20:51:08 * andythenorth might be missing the point here, but a while loop in varact 2 is possible 20:51:32 <Yexo> this wasn't about varact 2 :) 20:51:41 <Yexo> although I'm interested in how that would work 20:52:04 <frosch123> andythenorth: it is not possible 20:52:07 <Hirundo> is it in varact2? I thought one could only jump backwards 20:52:14 <frosch123> unless you mean the "again" flag of production callback 20:52:54 <Hirundo> Yexo: combining Action0 with Action6 is the main point, apart from some difficult ActionD arithmetic 20:53:26 <Yexo> oh, I didn't think about repeating ActionD 20:53:30 <Yexo> that might be useful indeed 20:54:20 <Yexo> Hirundo: I'm going to try and avoid Action6 as long as possible 20:54:28 <Hirundo> one could work with arrays that way, although I don't know how useful that would be 20:54:31 <Yexo> haven't found a case yet where you NEED action6 20:54:47 <Hirundo> Simple one: If parameter[a 20:54:57 <Hirundo> if parameter a > parameter b 20:55:03 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 20:55:28 <Yexo> oh, for action0s indeed :( 20:55:37 <Yexo> was just thinking about varact2 20:56:55 <planetmaker> Yexo: look also at my snow line height mod. I use one HUGE action6 in order to create the snow line as a function of parameters 20:57:51 <planetmaker> but that's an action0, too, IIRC 20:58:04 <Hirundo> wrt coding airports, getting varact2 working is the main thing 20:58:18 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:00:39 *** woldemar [~osaka@213.178.34.57] has joined #openttd 21:02:24 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd 21:02:38 <OwenS> Hmm... How should I handle strings like "If <condition> Then"? 21:02:45 <OwenS> Where condition itself should also be a string 21:03:33 <Hirundo> If {STRINGX} Then, with X being the number of parameters that the substring takes 21:03:50 <OwenS> ...I don't know how many it takes 21:04:18 <frosch123> then render the substring into a buffer, and include that one as RAWSTRING 21:04:28 <OwenS> OK :-) 21:04:52 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8df6d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:05:16 <Yexo> planetmaker: snow line height is a tricky one 21:05:25 <frosch123> iirc cargo suffixes in industry gui are an example, if you need one :) 21:05:38 <planetmaker> Yexo: well... depends :-) 21:05:44 <planetmaker> I mastered it once ;-) 21:05:45 <Yexo> it not only uses action6, it also uses the feature that if you write more then 4 bytes the next parameter is taken 21:06:06 <planetmaker> ah, yes 21:06:41 <frosch123> Yexo: you could also only replace one value per iteration and execute both the action6 and snowline-action0 12*32 times 21:06:48 <planetmaker> so it's a mean test case ;-) 21:07:27 <frosch123> hmm, but then you need an action6 to write the offset into the action6... 21:08:04 <frosch123> i guess that is no useful case either :p 21:08:05 <Yexo> <frosch123> Yexo: you could also only replace one value per iteration and execute both the action6 and snowline-action0 12*32 times <- that is a good idea 21:08:14 <Yexo> at least it sounds easier to support :p 21:09:40 <frosch123> i guess it is not, you can only set the whole snow line table with one big action0, and i cannot imagine how you would specify to replace different parts of that per iteration 21:09:47 <planetmaker> well... http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/snowlinemod/repository/entry/sprites/nfo/snowheight.pnfo line 207ff: I write in 4 byte chunks only 21:09:56 <frosch123> except you add arrays or so :p 21:11:16 <planetmaker> I thought about using that sort-of overflow with more than 4 bytes but it seemed too fishy to me ;-) 21:12:55 <andythenorth> hmmm did recent nightlies get more....crashy? Sorry no crash log, they're just bombing :| 21:14:11 <Rubidium> andythenorth: when messing with NewGRFs? 21:14:30 <andythenorth> yes and no 21:14:45 <andythenorth> do they ever reload a newgrf without player intervention (or game load?) 21:15:15 <Rubidium> no, but there might be cases where "broken" NewGRFs can kill OpenTTD 21:15:51 <Yexo> not "might be", there "are" cases where that happens 21:15:58 *** lobstah is now known as lobster 21:16:42 <Yexo> using 80 as byte in an industry name action0 for exmaple causes a crash in the language code with an error about invalid language files 21:16:47 <Yexo> *action4 21:18:53 <Yexo> Hirundo: you document has no syntax for action0 21:18:59 <Yexo> or at least I couldn't find it 21:19:37 <Yexo> oh, nvm 21:19:46 <Hirundo> ^^what you said :) 21:20:07 <Yexo> my browser search was case sensitive, forgot to uncheck that box 21:21:29 <Yexo> does the order of action0 and action1/2 matter? I mean is action1 > action2 > action0 > action3 a valid order to write them in? 21:22:31 <andythenorth> I do it differently, think Pikka does it differently again 21:23:03 <frosch123> i guess action0 before action3 is generally a good idea 21:23:29 <Yexo> action1 before action2, action 0 before action3, obviously also action2 before action3 21:23:44 <Yexo> ^^ is that all? 21:23:57 <Yexo> action4 before an action0 that references it 21:23:58 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: heffer] 21:24:09 <Yexo> or should it be after? 21:24:40 <andythenorth> I do it after, but that's just habit 21:24:51 <andythenorth> Pikka puts all his strings together 21:25:02 <andythenorth> as does FIRS actually 21:25:27 <frosch123> i am not sure, but iirc there are some cases where ids are defined via action 0 and are only valid afterwards 21:25:55 <frosch123> so i guess 1, 2, 7, 0, 3, 4, 10 21:26:16 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 21:27:40 <frosch123> and maybe also: cargotranstable, railtranstable, cargostuff, industrytilestuff, rest 21:28:03 <Yexo> frosch123: I think I'll just put all stirng together at the end of the nfo, easier to code 21:28:06 <Yexo> and shouldn't matter 21:28:16 <Yexo> not skipping those is no problem 21:28:17 <frosch123> maybe also better for translators :) 21:28:36 <Yexo> the actual strings will go in a seperate file anyway :) 21:28:40 <frosch123> not skipping them is a problem for vehicles 21:29:02 <Yexo> and another special case to handle ... :( 21:29:07 <frosch123> :p 21:29:48 <Yexo> directly after the action0 it is then 21:31:07 <andythenorth> Yexo: this is my preferred format: http://paste.openttd.org/225350 21:31:15 <andythenorth> it's only due to habit I guess though 21:31:49 <Yexo> andythenorth: I don't really care if the resulting nfo is easy to read or nice, just that it works (preferable in both ttdpatch and openttd) 21:32:21 <andythenorth> :P 21:33:08 <andythenorth> FIRS uses a lot of CPP stuff, and the action structure is far less important in that case 21:34:02 <andythenorth> Yexo: what exactly are you working on? I'm guessing it 's an abstraction of some sort, but what would you call it? 21:34:21 <Yexo> an nfo-meta language 21:34:30 <Yexo> Hirundo has written a proposal here http://paste.openttd.org/225328 21:34:58 <Hirundo> My overnight written document is suddenly a proposal? sweet! :P 21:35:15 <Yexo> how would you call it then? 21:35:41 <andythenorth> is it likely that someone using that would have to look at the resulting nfo to deal with errors found by renum? Or would you plan to eliminate that step? 21:35:55 <planetmaker> "spill of thoughts"? ;-) 21:35:59 <Yexo> I hope to eliminate that step 21:36:11 <frosch123> Hirundo: my over-afternoon written proposal was suddenly a ttdp/ottd/newgrf-spec controversy 21:36:17 <Yexo> you don't write any nfo yourself, so you shouldn't get renum warnings :p 21:36:31 <planetmaker> :-) 21:37:17 <andythenorth> Yexo: good luck :) 21:37:25 <frosch123> hmm, i have a half-finished grf encoder lieing somewhere... 21:37:39 *** |Terkhen| [~Terkhen@122.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 21:37:47 <andythenorth> Yexo: meanwhile your debug 'hack' just saved me about an hour (I estimate) 21:38:12 <Hirundo> frosch123: What does that 'grf encoder' take as its input? 21:38:20 *** Terkhen is now known as Guest1802 21:38:21 *** |Terkhen| is now known as Terkhen 21:38:33 <frosch123> i guess std::vector<uint8> or so 21:38:34 <Yexo> andythenorth: what I already have: http://paste.openttd.org/225327 21:39:05 <frosch123> maybe also just (uint8 *, uint len) 21:39:10 <Yexo> but I'm going to use Hirundo's syntax, that's much better 21:39:54 <frosch123> Hirundo: i started from the idea to automatically decide for 01 or 09 for realsprites 21:40:10 <planetmaker> Hm... maybe that should be written down on a wiki page? Like rail types was proposed there? 21:41:06 <Yexo> frosch123: 01 or 09? do you mean action0 or actionA ? 21:41:16 <andythenorth> compression? 21:41:16 <frosch123> no, realsprite compression :) 21:41:25 <Yexo> oh, that :) 21:41:25 <andythenorth> what is the purpose of compression? 21:41:36 <andythenorth> does it save bandwidth, or memory or what? 21:41:43 <andythenorth> in this case I mean, I know the general purpose :) 21:41:44 <frosch123> decrease spritesize, and in case of ttdp increase drawing speed 21:41:55 <frosch123> s/spritesize/filesize/ 21:41:56 *** Guest1802 [~Terkhen@44.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:42:09 <andythenorth> if I compress more, does Bananas consume fewer resources? 21:42:11 <OwenS> (Heh, so TTD's sprite drawing is. like graphics cards, faster with compression) 21:42:23 <Hirundo> Regarding real sprites, is there a tool available that allows selecting rectangles from a pcx and create the realsprites automagically? 21:42:46 <planetmaker> Hirundo: not that I know. 21:42:46 <frosch123> OwenS: it is raw data vs. run length encoding 21:43:03 <planetmaker> Also... it wouldn't make much sense: compression and esp. the offsets cannot be auto-set 21:43:06 *** ^4VAlien^ [~kastje@ant06-1-82-242-108-211.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 21:43:12 <Hirundo> Preferably using templates for tiles / vehicles to set xrel/yrel with drag and drop 21:43:36 <OwenS> Hmm... I'm gonna have to cache the instructions inside the window so I can have useful indexes 21:43:37 <frosch123> Hirundo: there are various tools of that kind, but imo they are all useless 21:43:40 <planetmaker> The better way is actually to use a reasonable template - and stick to that for every vehicle 21:43:47 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@119.11.34.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:43:50 * andythenorth agrees with planetmaker 21:43:55 <frosch123> i guess best is to make a '#include <pikkatemplates>" 21:43:55 <Hirundo> Regarding compression, it could try compressing sprites either way and see what's smaller 21:44:05 <andythenorth> although.... 21:44:24 <andythenorth> being able to tweak offsets in game, as Firebug can tweak html/css would be useful 21:44:33 <andythenorth> obviously no need to save them 21:44:56 <frosch123> yeah, actually deciding between 00, 01 and 09 is the easier part of encoding :) 21:45:09 <frosch123> but iirc i messed up the other compression step 21:45:30 <Hirundo> which other step? 21:47:06 <frosch123> for realsprites there is a second compression for storage in file 21:47:15 *** irid [~pwaller@109-232.76-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has left #openttd [] 21:48:06 <frosch123> a usual compression algorithm with copying previous content, with a weird exception that it can also copy the just copied content or so 21:48:34 <Hirundo> http://www.ttdpatch.net/grfcodec/grf.html <- as described here? 21:49:15 <asilv> <andythenorth> being able to tweak offsets in game, as Firebug can tweak html/css would be useful <-ttdp has that, it's very useful, pretty much only reason i have ttdp installed 21:49:16 <frosch123> yes, but i consider that description quite unreadable :) 21:49:18 <Alberth> Yexo: FYI, with GRL, I found out how to generate NFO from a higher level language, including action 6 http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=652279#p652279 21:49:26 <frosch123> it took me various tries to get grf2html right 21:49:58 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:49:58 <andythenorth> asilv: no TTDP for OS X :| 21:50:15 <andythenorth> I could use wine I guess 21:51:12 <frosch123> i thought none of your grfs work in ttdp :p 21:51:12 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7716F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:51:14 <Yexo> Alberth: thanks, reading it now 21:51:17 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7716F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:51:40 <andythenorth> frosch123: I knew there was a reason I don't use TTDP :) 21:52:16 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 21:52:40 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:54:04 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 21:55:05 <andythenorth> so TTDP has a pixel offset tweaker? 21:55:18 * andythenorth (couldn't find it on the TTDP wiki) 21:55:43 <planetmaker> it's surely written *somewhere* 21:56:06 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@cpc4-pool12-2-0-cust17.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:57:15 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s5591a1ba.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]] 21:58:55 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 21:59:45 <Hirundo> I guess all newgrf compiler writers suffer from the NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome, given the amount of times the wheel has been reinvented 22:00:20 <Alberth> nope, they underestimate the size of the NFO language 22:00:25 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8df6d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 22:00:40 <OwenS> And the unusualness of it :p 22:01:40 * andythenorth writes some nfo before it goes extinct :P 22:01:55 <andythenorth> you will pry these bytes from my cold dead hands! 22:02:00 <andythenorth> but not the dwords. You can have those. 22:03:30 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@80.119.107.81] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:06:53 *** Tennel_ [~Tennel@pD9529776.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:07:34 <asilv> andythenorth 22:07:39 <asilv> andythenorth:http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=GRFAuthorHelperWindow&highlight=grf%20author 22:08:02 *** Tennel_ [~Tennel@pD9529776.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 22:08:44 <andythenorth> interesting 22:08:49 *** Tennel_ [~Tennel@pD9529776.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:09:04 <andythenorth> does it apply only in that window? Or does it apply to sprites being rendered on the landscape? 22:09:08 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:09:17 <frosch123> the former would be quite useless :p 22:09:18 <asilv> rendered sprites 22:09:33 <andythenorth> that would be mighty useful 22:09:49 <frosch123> then code it for ottd :) 22:09:52 <andythenorth> ah 22:10:06 *** Tennel_ [~Tennel@pD9529776.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 22:10:24 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 22:10:26 <andythenorth> I've managed nearly a whole weekend of suggestions before anyone said that :) A record! 22:10:43 <asilv> i have been thinking about it, but so far i have never bothered to try it 22:11:04 <asilv> coding it for ottd that is 22:11:05 * andythenorth goes and figures out why some nfo errors have appeared 'as if from nowhere' :| 22:11:33 <frosch123> schrödinbugs? 22:11:42 <planetmaker> heisenbugs 22:12:08 <andythenorth> I have a rather ruder word for them 22:12:16 *** Tennel [~Tennel@pD9529776.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:12:21 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:12:22 <andythenorth> planetmaker: my FIRS error count is now 5. I was keeping it to 0 22:12:30 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has joined #openttd 22:12:43 <planetmaker> he... 22:12:58 <andythenorth> my version of renum doesn't recognise var 5F. That accounts for two of the errors 22:13:10 <andythenorth> /!!Warning (86): Offset 32: Testing nonexistant variable 5F. 22:13:32 * andythenorth ponders looking for an updated renum 22:13:38 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has quit [] 22:13:49 <planetmaker> just download it... 22:15:33 <Yexo> nforenum supports var 5F only for some features 22:16:41 <Yexo> it's supported for features 0-7 and 9 22:19:25 <frosch123> night 22:19:30 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f74ed.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:14 <andythenorth> @seen DaleStan 22:20:14 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: DaleStan was last seen in #openttd 5 hours, 40 minutes, and 28 seconds ago: <DaleStan> <PeterT> Why would one have info version 5 instead of info version 7? <-- because you didn't use any Info version 6 or 7 features, and there was no header telling NFORenum to use any particular version. 22:22:50 <andythenorth> planetmaker: now 2 FIRS errors - both var 5F not recognised :) Ammler will be pleased 22:24:17 <planetmaker> :-) 22:29:29 <planetmaker> yes, I get two, too 22:38:30 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba84fa.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 22:39:05 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-220-101.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Something strange must have happened...] 22:42:45 <andythenorth> planetmaker: all stockpile limits now eliminated from FIRS 22:44:05 <planetmaker> \o/ :-) 22:44:28 <planetmaker> and another milestone bullet point closed, eh? :-) 22:44:35 <andythenorth> yup 22:46:47 *** Lachie [~whitey@creep.bur.st] has joined #openttd 22:48:39 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-202-168.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 22:49:39 *** Tennel [~Tennel@pD9529776.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:55:49 <OwenS> I wish changing english.txt didn't make you recompile so much 22:56:18 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has quit [] 22:56:31 *** lewymati [~lewymati@89.230.159.206] has quit [] 22:58:40 <OwenS> WHOO! programmable_signals_gui is now listing instructions correctly 22:58:54 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:40 *** __ln__ [~lauri@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:01:05 <Rubidium> OwenS: be happy it doesn't recompile everything anymore 23:01:13 <OwenS> Hehe 23:01:36 *** PeterT_ [~PeterT@c-65-96-65-79.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 23:02:06 *** PeterT_ is now known as Guest1805 23:02:53 *** Guest1805 [~PeterT@c-65-96-65-79.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:02:56 *** Pe1erT [~Peter@c-65-96-65-79.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 23:03:54 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:03 *** Pe1erT [~Peter@c-65-96-65-79.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:04:11 *** __ln__ [~lauri@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd 23:05:08 <OwenS> Latest revision of progsigs patch is attached at http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=47690&p=865989#p865989 23:09:35 <andythenorth> PeterT: have you finished your grf yet? 23:13:12 <PeterT> andythenorth: haven't done anything with it since this morning 23:13:16 <PeterT> I've been really busy 23:19:19 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:24:02 *** goblin_ [~goblin@krlh-5f72256a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28:40 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db0f45c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: gn8] 23:29:36 *** Starn [~Starn@adsl-67-67-8-79.dsl.okcyok.swbell.net] has joined #openttd 23:30:41 *** Tennel [~Tennel@pD9529776.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:31:40 <Terkhen> good night 23:31:45 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@122.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...] 23:32:14 *** Tennel [~Tennel@pD9529776.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 23:32:32 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba84fa.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:36:08 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D8F5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:21 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving]