Log for #openttd on 5th April 2010:
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00:14:52  <Mazur> Funny. I built a double track and placed the signals on one of them wrong way around.
00:14:59  <Mazur> :-)
00:15:22  <Mazur> Couple of coal trains captured at the end.
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00:36:12  <Jolteon> God damn it
00:36:19  <Jolteon> one breakdown on a train can really screw up networks
00:36:42  <PeterT> you're playing OpenTTD at 12:36 AM?
00:37:02  <Jolteon> 01:36
00:37:09  <PeterT> oh, daylight savings
00:37:20  <Jolteon> Yes
00:37:23  <Jolteon> We're in BST now
00:37:24  <Jolteon> not GMT
00:37:29  <Jolteon> BST is same as GMT+1
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00:47:52  <zodttd> Rubidium: I'm not sure why OpenTTD was pulled with a second pull notice to Apple. I thought I covered each point from the first notice. I played OpenTTD on my iPad and it's nearly perfect with the higher res. Is there *anything* I can do to see OpenTTD on the iPad?
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00:53:14  <SirSquidness> zodttd: take a screenshot of it on your desktop, and open the image on your pad
00:53:19  <SirSquidness> :p
00:53:36  <zodttd> Why? I have it running on my iPad
00:54:29  <zodttd> I'm currently using the port I made of OpenTTD to the iPhone in 2x scale mode. Wanting to see if I can get some cooperation to make it native to the iPad where it fits really well.
00:54:51  <zodttd> But I don't want to put in effort if it will be pulled from AppStore (again). :-(
01:00:44  <SirSquidness> I dunno, I was just makinga joke
01:01:02  <SirSquidness> I have no idea about the iPad
01:01:30  <zodttd> oh heh :D
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02:15:36  <Mazur> Is this the shortest track ever?  I have a Power Station and a Coal mine so near, that the stations are only 5 squares apart.  just enough for the unnecessary signals.  :-)
02:16:22  <Mazur> Could have made it Two stations one apart.
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02:48:08  <SirSquidness> andythenorth: around?
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05:53:51  <Mazur> How do I bribe the local council?
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05:54:49  <De_Ghosty> with the bribe button
05:54:58  <De_Ghosty> or if u get caught you have to wait
05:55:11  <De_Ghosty> or the cheaper way is to plants lots of trees in their town
05:56:52  <Mazur> Did htat,m wasn't enough.
05:57:09  <Mazur> A button, I'll have a look.
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06:00:13  <Mazur> De_Ghosty: Whwere do I find that button?
06:06:06  <Mazur> Anyone? Please.  The power station and coal mine might go any minute.
06:06:48  <Mazur> And I'm not succesful finding it on the web.
06:09:25  <Mazur> Ok, found it.
06:09:47  <Mazur> Thanks for the help.
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07:33:42  <awox> time to test openttd on my new rig
07:33:45  <awox> :D
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10:13:22  <djgummikuh> Hey
10:13:40  <djgummikuh> is there any resource on how to setup an openttd dedicated server with a given set of NewGRFs?
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10:15:13  <Alberth> possibly at the wiki
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10:19:10  <djgummikuh> yeah... the openttd.cfg article has no info about that topic >.
10:19:11  <djgummikuh> <
10:21:03  <djgummikuh> aah I found something in the FAQ
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10:59:12  <djgummikuh> hey. what exactly do I have to put into the openttd.cfg of a dedicated server to use a newGRF set downloaded by content download?
10:59:31  <djgummikuh> I see no .grf file, only a .tar file under ~/.openttd/content_download/data
10:59:46  <djgummikuh> I added the name of the tar and the name of the .grf inside the tar to the config file
11:00:05  <djgummikuh> but when I kill the server, it overwrites the openttd.cfg so that the lines I added are deleted again
11:06:30  <Alberth> why not setup the newgrf from the ingame menu one time?
11:06:30  <Progman> then kill the server first and then add the grfs ;)
11:09:39  <peter1138> or keep the file open and only save it after quitting the server
11:10:02  <peter1138> anyway, it should be the path within the tar ball
11:11:31  <Mazur> Is there a way to see the feed of a station (its area), after it's been built?
11:12:08  <djgummikuh> Alberth: it's a dedicated server without graphical frontend running on a vhost
11:12:21  <djgummikuh> and I killed the server first, then added the value then rstarted the server
11:12:48  <djgummikuh> peter1138: so I should use e.g Very Large Ships.1.0/vl_shipw.grf instead of just vl_shipw.grf?
11:13:09  <Alberth> make a cfg with a normal computer, then copy it?
11:13:22  <djgummikuh> hmm
11:13:28  <Mazur> I'm about to build a factory, and I want to see if it's close enough or whether I would have to service it.
11:13:51  <djgummikuh> Mazur: just select the station build tool and pretend to rebuild the station where it already is
11:13:56  <djgummikuh> that way you see the feeding area again
11:14:07  <Mazur> Oh yes, of course.
11:15:14  <Mazur> By the way, speaking of that, what does building the same station on top of itself achieve?  It costs money, but I don't always see results.
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11:15:51  <Ammler> djgummikuh: make a grf preset locally, then you can copy the cfg to your server
11:16:03  <PaddoSwam> Hello all, I have a problem setting up OpenTTD 1.0.0 on Ubuntu 8.04 LTS
11:16:03  <Ammler> (only the part about newgrfs)
11:16:16  <PaddoSwam> It simply doesn't run and I don't know where to look for errors
11:16:31  <Alberth> Mazur: nothing, unless your new station also covers some tiles that were not a station before.
11:16:32  <Ammler> PaddoSwam: run it from console
11:16:40  <PaddoSwam> Ok let me try that
11:17:23  <djgummikuh> Ammler: I just tried that and copied the newgrf section from the config file over to the server
11:17:40  <djgummikuh> still no difference, the server does not use the grf file and after I shutdown the server, the modification of the config file is reverted
11:17:57  <Mazur> Thanks, Alberth.  Though that leaves me with the question of how to achieve the bare platform look for stations that are not such as default.
11:17:59  <Rubidium> djgummikuh: so it can't find the NewGRF
11:18:01  <Ammler> djgummikuh: did you also update the server with bananas grfs?
11:18:02  <djgummikuh> note though, that the file was saved BEFORE i started the server and the modification was still present in the file when the server was running
11:18:20  <djgummikuh> Ammler: yes the file has been downloaded using content select 225
11:18:28  <Ammler> oh, you load a save?
11:18:31  <djgummikuh> no
11:18:38  <djgummikuh> just did openTTD -D
11:19:01  <Rubidium> content select only selects; it doesn't download it
11:19:05  <djgummikuh> Rubidium: am I supposed to put the file anywhere after I downloaded it with conten download?
11:19:12  <djgummikuh> Rubidium: yeah I of course did content download afterwards
11:19:24  <djgummikuh> and I have the relevant file in ~/.openttd/content_download/data/
11:19:30  <djgummikuh> it's a .tar file
11:19:39  <Mazur> ( As a dead Newbie, I love the uncovered platforms as the trains are all clear in sight while I'm learning.
11:19:43  <Mazur> )
11:19:44  <Alberth> djgummikuh: run with a debug flag, so you get some output, eg    ./openttd -d grf=1
11:20:01  <Alberth> higher numbers is more output
11:20:40  <Alberth> Mazur: you can use the transparency setting ('x' to toggle, 'ctl+x' for a menu)
11:20:57  <Mazur> But my deja vu suggests it depends on what kind of feed the station has.
11:21:01  <Alberth> Mazur: otherwise, you need to use a newgrf with other station graphics
11:21:42  <Alberth> yes, most station newgrfs have platforms dedicated to a certain type of cargo, for more pretty pictures
11:21:58  <Ammler> djgummikuh: easiest is to setup the game locally
11:22:09  <djgummikuh> Ammler: locally the game works fine
11:22:09  <Ammler> and then load it with -g on the server
11:22:10  <Mazur> Alberth: I know about transparancy, but even then, the superstructure is a grey mist above the platforms.
11:22:36  <djgummikuh> ok I did with grf=1 and got output but I'm not sure what to expect so I don't know if the output helps me to any degree
11:22:44  <Mazur> That's what I was afraid of.
11:22:47  <Alberth> Mazur: play with the buttons in the menu
11:23:34  <djgummikuh> here is my debug output
11:23:37  <djgummikuh>
11:23:43  <Mazur> Ah, thanks, hadn't looked at them with this in mind.
11:24:50  <djgummikuh> ah now I have something
11:24:52  <Ammler> djgummikuh: grf related seems fine
11:24:57  <djgummikuh> ini: ignoring invalid NewGRF 'very_large_ships.0.1\vl_shipw.grf': not found
11:25:07  <djgummikuh> I forgot that the line was deleted again
11:25:31  <djgummikuh> however, this is the line I copied from my local client (on which it works fine!)
11:25:46  <PaddoSwam> @Ammler it's running thanks a bunch!
11:26:30  <Ammler> PaddoSwam: most linux apps do have some basic debug output, if you start them in console ;-)
11:27:04  <Alberth> Mazur: if you start a new game, load the 'industrial station renewal' NewGRF first, for more bare platforms
11:27:40  <Mazur> Okidoki.  :-)
11:28:08  * Mazur has to placate a local council to get a ne factory working and save some farms.
11:28:19  * djgummikuh thinks the newGRF stuff still is too complicated to use efficiently
11:28:45  <Ammler> setup it locally and transfer to the server...
11:28:49  <Ammler> that is quite easy
11:28:55  <djgummikuh> Ammler: I did :(
11:29:00  <djgummikuh> on the client it works fine
11:29:05  <djgummikuh> on the server it says ini: ignoring invalid NewGRF 'very_large_ships.0.1\vl_shipw.grf': not found
11:29:11  <djgummikuh> though the file is there
11:29:25  <djgummikuh> I *assume* it's a windows vs linux (case insensitive vs case sensitive) issue
11:29:34  <djgummikuh> however, I'm running out of time for the moment and have to take care of that later...
11:29:41  <Ammler> or \ against /
11:29:48  <djgummikuh> oh shit
11:29:57  <djgummikuh> you're right I'm gonna try THAT out right now
11:30:03  <Ammler> / works on windows too, afaik
11:30:41  <djgummikuh> you, sir, are a genious
11:30:42  <ragzid> PaddoSwam: check whether menu link starts openttd or openttd-wrapper like debian
11:30:53  <djgummikuh> Ammler: yeah but the windows system used \ in the config file
11:31:23  <djgummikuh> yay it works
11:31:27  * djgummikuh does the happy dance
11:31:44  <Ammler> again, setup it locally and then load the save is still easier
11:31:49  <Ammler> also settings
11:32:06  <djgummikuh> Ammler: i DID
11:32:11  <Ammler> you didn't
11:32:13  <djgummikuh> that was copied 1:1
11:32:14  <djgummikuh> yes I did
11:32:20  <djgummikuh> it did use \ locally on my windows machine
11:32:21  <Ammler> you copied the cfg content
11:32:39  <Ammler> you should setup the game and then load the _save_
11:32:43  <Rubidium> djgummikuh: savegames don't have \ or / for NewGRF identification
11:32:47  <djgummikuh> ah ok
11:32:49  <djgummikuh> no I don't want that
11:32:50  <djgummikuh> :P
11:33:07  <djgummikuh> NOW I even understand what you want from me - I thought you were talking about the .cfg all the time :)
11:33:19  <Ammler> the cfg is for new games only
11:33:23  <Ammler> keep that in mind
11:33:32  <djgummikuh> yeah I'm doing new games all the time :)
11:34:42  <djgummikuh> but cool now that I understood that, I'll stuff my server full with updates :P
11:35:15  <djgummikuh> bye for now :) and thanks for the help
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11:47:39  <Mazur> Hm, ihteresting bug.  I just bbuilt a road depot outside the local jurisdition, but quit close, and when I click it, I get the train depot instead.  No, it's not a joint spot.
11:53:10  <Mazur> Oh well, justm built another depot in a nearby city, and built a road between.
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11:56:29  <Jupix> can someone be arsed to test if this works correctly in openttd-EZ?
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12:26:21  <Ammler> Jupix: do not use ogfxe_extra :-)
12:26:59  <Ammler> I wonder, nobody told you yet.
12:27:42  <Jupix> when it comes to technical stuff like that, i don't know anything about anything
12:27:56  <Jupix> i'm just using GeekToo's latest template.tar
12:27:58  <Ammler> <-- use that instead
12:29:44  <Jupix> i think in the case of this script that translates to "ignore everything under ogfxe_extra"
12:30:06  <Ammler> which script?
12:30:19  <Jupix> the one that builds the pack you downloaded
12:30:57  <Jupix> takes finished stuff from the repo, extracts the tars and reorganizes them to fit the template
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12:32:25  <Ammler> you are sure, that template is up2date?
12:32:33  <Ammler> I guess, that was from before 32bpp-extra
12:34:28  <Jupix> not sure
12:35:02  <Jupix> anyway, does the pack work, apart from the extras mixup?
12:36:10  <Ammler> what is the license you use?
12:36:55  <Ammler> (I am still building... :-)
12:38:34  <Jupix> for now, the contents are just random graphics with license or no license
12:38:45  <Jupix> until i get the thing to work
12:39:36  <Ammler> seems fine
12:39:58  <Jupix> then, once the repo gets a bit more organised (which leads to the automatic organising process working properly), you can click the links in the contents list and see the license for that particular tar, as set by the author
12:40:10  <Jupix> ok, nice
12:40:30  <Ammler> it for base set only?
12:40:40  <Ammler> or do you also support newgrfs?
12:40:46  <Jupix> base set only
12:42:10  <Jupix> (or "i don't know", meaning, the pack contains numbered png's, i don't know if those can replace newgrf graphics too)
12:42:52  <Ammler> would need a folder <newgrf>/ in the tar, afaik
12:43:52  <Jupix> then it can be accomodated but the (original) tar at the repository would have to be organised in that manner, too, so no problem there
12:43:54  <Ammler> wouldn't it make sense to split the tar like the mega pack did?
12:44:10  <Ammler> so someone doesn't need to download the whole pack for a single sprite update?
12:44:47  <Jupix> no, i think you misunderstand what this is, this is just a nightly build of "everything" at the repo
12:44:56  <Jupix> so if you want to update something, you just update the singular item at the repo
12:45:14  <Jupix> then "my megapack" gets updated the next time it's built
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12:45:52  <Ammler> yes, and someone likes to use that update, he needs to download the whole pack
12:49:16  <Jupix> well, if someone doesn't want to do that, he can log in as guest at the repo and get the singular item and put it in place :)
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12:50:39  <Jupix> personally i prefer the one-tar-megapack approach because it doesn't make a mess in /data/
12:51:20  <Jupix> i tried making a "tar of tars" but it didn't look like the game supports that
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14:24:26  <oskari89> How river placement in scenery editor can be so irritating. There's just too much work.
14:24:38  <oskari89> Doing 1000 lakes scenery.
14:25:18  <oskari89> Has water on different levels, and all above "normal level" needs to be placed manually.
14:25:40  <Eddi|zuHause> make a river import addon to heightmaps :)
14:26:04  <oskari89> That would be very very handy.
14:26:47  <oskari89> <- is this on developement anymore?
14:27:50  <oskari89> Would make canals handy.
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14:28:49  <kimiko> hello :D
14:29:19  <Alberth> hello
14:29:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i had a TGP-Patch for rivers, but it was incomplete
14:29:37  <kimiko> Question for you guys. Does the availability of helicopters stop after a certain time period? Because, my openttd 1.0 with no extras downloaded has no helicopters available in 2056
14:29:46  <Eddi|zuHause> depended on rivers-on-halftiles
14:34:29  <oskari89> Hmm.
14:36:35  <kimiko> I've created helipads, heliports, helidepots... even tried the airports. no helis to be bought
14:36:45  <kimiko> (and I hate the futuristic design of the jets -- but oh well)
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14:37:20  <Ammler> kimiko: as you already guessed, download some extras
14:37:23  <Eddi|zuHause> kimiko: yes, the helicopters disappear after a certain date
14:37:28  <OwenS> kimiko: If vehicles expire is enabled, then the helicopters will disappear
14:37:39  <Belugas> hello
14:38:17  <kimiko> where is said setting hidden under?
14:38:21  <Ammler> oh, canada also working today?
14:38:58  <Ammler> kimiko: it isn't hidden, available from the gui
14:39:28  <kimiko> nvm
14:39:39  <kimiko> found it.. Advanced Settings > Vehicles
14:40:50  <Belugas> canada worked friday and saturday
14:40:53  <Belugas> and today too
14:41:05  <Belugas> canada is pissed off, mad and furious
14:41:15  <Belugas> canada wants to kick some ass big time
14:41:27  <Alberth> It should be forbidden by law
14:42:13  <Alberth> ('it' being that people work at such days)
14:45:15  <Eddi|zuHause> it is here :)
14:45:48  <kimiko> awww rats... can't get the helis back in a active/current game...
14:45:52  <kimiko> bummer
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14:55:56  <Belugas> let say that there is someone who is going to pay me for the blunder.  and i have my price set, believe me
14:57:11  <Alberth> one whole week free!
14:57:12  *** DJ_Nekkid_dot_nl is now known as DJNekkid
14:57:54  <Belugas> hehe  ... that is a bit too much to ask ;) I
14:57:55  <Belugas> m not
14:57:57  <Eddi|zuHause> kimiko: go to the console and type "resetengines"
14:58:04  <Belugas> that hungry
14:59:02  <Belugas> there is that canon lens i've chekcing: 70-300 IS USM.  worth about 500$ US.  I tried it not too long ago and it's quite a beauty
14:59:12  <Belugas> so... that will be my price
14:59:21  <Alberth> nice!
14:59:28  <Belugas> no cash, since you'll be taxed ;)
15:03:47  <oskari89> Wow..
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15:04:58  <oskari89> 1 and half million residents in one city, how big can it grow anyway in scenario editor?
15:06:02  <Doorslammer> Citizens breeding like rabbits no doubt...
15:06:34  <Doorslammer> I really really want to say "Oops, wrong window" right now
15:06:43  <oskari89> :D
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15:09:37  <Ciprian97> hi
15:10:17  <kimiko> is there any way to increase the percentage of steel an steel mill transports to me (currently 0)
15:10:20  <planetmaker> hi Ciprian97 (& all others :-) )
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15:17:05  <oskari89> Now two and half million..
15:18:17  <Alberth> kimiko: bring iron ore, so it produces steel, and transport steel away from it.
15:23:02  <kimiko> I am bringing plenty of iron ore, and it produces 92-170 tonnes of steel monthly.. but it refuses to let me transport the steel
15:24:57  <lugo> kimiko, switch the waggons to steel
15:25:16  <lugo> in a depot you can set which type of cargo a waggon can transport
15:25:28  <kimiko> rated Steel Truck
15:25:32  <kimiko> so, it's the right one
15:26:05  <kimiko> iron ore to the mill, steel is supposed to go to the factory and the factory makes the goods
15:26:27  <Alberth> perhaps your station is too far away?
15:26:50  <kimiko> nope
15:26:52  <kimiko> it accepts it
15:27:00  <kimiko> accepts iron ore
15:27:09  <Alberth> any competition?
15:27:12  <kimiko> nope
15:27:23  <Alberth> accepting ore does not imply it can get steel
15:27:44  <kimiko> it does produce steel though
15:28:09  <Alberth> the mill does, I guess :)
15:29:04  <kimiko> I can try moving the station I suppose
15:29:05  <Alberth> however, if the truck-stop accepts iron ore, that does not automatically mean you are in range for getting steel, afaik those two use seperate ranges
15:29:54  <Alberth> if you open the build-station window, pick the same station that you have, and hoover above your existing one, does the picker window show steel?
15:29:55  <kimiko> that's stupid
15:30:16  <kimiko> Accepts Iron Ore, Supplies Steel
15:30:47  <Alberth> I think we covered the basics. We need a save game from you to understand what is wrong, I think
15:31:48  <kimiko> mail it to you?
15:32:38  <Alberth> some binary file upload service, or post at tt-forums
15:34:21  <kimiko>
15:34:54  <kimiko> Teddyweed Woods is the station
15:37:25  <Alberth> why does it have a 'unload and stay empty' order?
15:38:33  <kimiko> ......
15:38:41  <kimiko> I have no idea
15:38:50  <kimiko> wrong line I suppose
15:39:11  <Alberth> if you change it to full load, it works here
15:39:20  <kimiko> just changed it
15:39:23  <kimiko> sorry ><
15:40:10  <Alberth> np
15:40:51  <kimiko> there we go.. Steel! <3
15:46:29  <ragzid> do I need special train vehicles for FIRS?
15:48:54  <Eddi|zuHause> ragzid: how special do you currently have?
15:49:24  <ragzid> no special, just generic, this is my first attempt to learn how FIRS works :)
15:49:29  <Eddi|zuHause> ragzid: the default vehicle set cannot carry the cargos. use the "Old Wagons New Cargos" grf in that case
15:50:22  <Eddi|zuHause> ragzid: most other sets like UKRS or NARS already can carry the cargos, they don't need anything special
15:51:45  <ragzid> thanks :) i already found topic about FIRS at tt-forums, and paragraph about "Vehicle Set Support"
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17:45:56  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r19564 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
17:45:56  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:56  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: greek - 4 changes by fumantsu
17:45:56  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 14 changes by Saulius
17:45:56  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: russian - 1 changes by Lone_Wolf
17:45:58  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: serbian - 1 changes by etran
17:45:58  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: slovenian - 1 changes by ntadej
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18:26:53  <OwenS> Why can you no longer get 4:3/5:4 monitors? :(
18:31:11  <__ln__> 'cause those are so 00's
18:31:30  <OwenS> They're so better  :P
18:31:53  <ragzid> and what about black tape at the sides and lower resolution?:)
18:32:18  <OwenS> ragzid: I'm a multi-monitor person. That just doesn't work :p
18:33:36  <ragzid> so buy enough monitors/panels and set them to 4:3 :)
18:34:08  <OwenS> ragzid: The problem is I would like 2 or 3 relatively narrow monitors side-by-side, not 3 unnecessarily wide ones which make my neck ache
18:36:04  <OwenS> In fact, my ideal monitor would be portrait
18:36:29  <__ln__> then buy one that can be used as portrait
18:36:57  <OwenS> Those tend to be rather expensive. Also, sub-pixel AA doesn't work as well with veritcal-RGB
18:44:41  <ragzid> i can't image playing ottd in portrait mode
18:46:03  <OwenS> ragzid: Not OpenTTD. Programming and reading
18:47:18  <ragzid> it must be bad for neck, imho it's better to turn head in horizontal direction...
18:48:01  <ragzid> i have panel with potrait mode, but I've never used it
18:50:03  <ragzid> anyway... why are some of stations from newGRFs grayed out?
18:50:25  <ragzid> do they depend on climate? or any other GRF?
18:54:57  <Alberth> cargo not available?
18:55:21  <Alberth> not late enough in the game?
18:55:23  <OwenS> ragzid: Portrait is much better for you because your eyes have to do much less horizontal travel, which is much better for them (There is a maximum column width beyond which reading becomes much harder)
18:55:30  <Alberth> almost anything is possible
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19:09:11  <oskari89> Can depot speed limit be deactivated someway in OTTD 1.0?
19:11:04  <Alberth> by hacking the source :p
19:12:27  <oskari89> I recall there was switch for that, on some revision i played.
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19:15:57  <ragzid> Alberth: thx, it's probably the year (starting, 1951:D)
19:18:05  <ragzid> FIRS is really complex, it brings other dimension to the game :)
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19:36:45  <ShadowCip> byeeeeee
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19:51:37  <Terkhen> hello
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19:52:48  <PeterT> Hello Terkhen
20:00:13  <Rubidium> OwenS: isn't 10:16 like the "ideal" for reading documents?
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20:03:30  <jordi> I'm not sure when the release happened, as I was on vacation
20:03:37  <jordi> however, congratulations everyone!
20:04:05  <Rubidium> jordi: April 1st ofcourse :)
20:04:09  <OwenS> Rubidium: Something like that. The original PARC Altos had 10:16, so it was Apple who first got things wrong
20:04:44  <OwenS> Obviously a little wider is probably useful on PCs for sidebars and such
20:04:56  <OwenS> (Though I guess I tend to read an abnormally large number of PDFs)
20:04:58  <jordi> ah, that's a great release date :)
20:05:06  <jordi> did Duke Nukem Forever get released too? :)
20:06:16  <Rubidium> jordi: don't know; don't follow that
20:06:39  <aber> :D
20:06:58  <__ln__> jordi: available as NewGRF
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20:09:31  <OwenS> WTF Gnome? Why does Evolution popup when I click "Edit" in the clock? What the heck does Evolution have to do with that?
20:10:11  <jordi> OwenS: theclock uses evo-data-server
20:10:18  <jordi> ie, the calendar in evolution
20:10:26  <__ln__> OwenS: What does "Edit" do in your wrist watch?
20:10:28  <OwenS> OK, thats just crazy
20:10:35  <OwenS> __ln__: Change the time. Not fire up the E-Mail client.
20:11:01  <jordi> OwenS: you do that in right click -> preferences
20:11:10  <jordi> (or use a ntp server :)
20:11:18  <OwenS> I think I have NTP configured
20:11:31  <OwenS> So what does Edit do? Scheduling? And why does it assume Evolution?
20:11:48  <__ln__> OwenS: On the other hand, we know that on a *nix-style system the time is not user-editable usually, and in a modern networked workstation there should hardly ever be a reason to manually adjust the clock.
20:11:58  <Rubidium> because it evolved that way?
20:12:17  <Rubidium> just kill it and let the genetic process start from another branch and maybe it'll get better
20:12:19  <Eddi|zuHause> <Rubidium> OwenS: isn't 10:16 like the "ideal" for reading documents? <-- isn't an A4 sheet 1:sqrt(2) [about 10:14]?
20:12:52  <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: A4 is imperfect. The ideal is slightly "fatter"
20:13:06  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, but A4 doesn't have to title bar, ribbon, menu bar etc.
20:13:06  <OwenS> __ln__: But there may be a reason to change the timezone, for example
20:14:00  <__ln__> true
20:14:02  <OwenS> I want my KDE back :(
20:14:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i vaguely remember a 22" 16:10 monitor fits two A4 sheets next to each other
20:17:37  <Rubidium> something completely different. Does anyone know how to get the 'resolution' in lines and columns (e.g. 80x25 for DOS) of a console from a (ba)sh script?
20:17:49  <Rubidium> in Linux
20:19:24  <peter1138> $COLUMNS
20:19:31  <peter1138> $LINES
20:20:01  <OwenS> Better than what was going to be my suggestion, namely compile a Curses program to do the same :p
20:21:05  <OwenS> Jeeze... The Multiboot 2 specification STILL contains Mach and VSTa, when both have been dead for ~5 years?
20:21:20  <peter1138> mind you, being linux, it'll probably turn out to be specific to my terminal and shell combination
20:21:36  <OwenS> peter1138: Well, gnome-terminal on Solaris creates them
20:22:02  <Rubidium> peter1138: thanks :)
20:22:16  <peter1138> OwenS, and alas, i'm using gnome-terminal
20:22:20  <OwenS> I believe SIGWINCH is the notice that they have changed
20:22:33  <peter1138> works in xterm too
20:22:35  <Rubidium> so kms made my non-X console a mere 240x75
20:22:38  <OwenS> I just tried that :p
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20:25:10  <SpComb> how many 80x25 terminals can you fit
20:25:12  <OwenS> OK, seriously Solaris, do you need all of the following: /usr/bin/make; /usr/dtbld/bin/make; /usr/gnu/bin/make; /opt/sunstudio12.1/bin/dmake?
20:25:34  <Rubidium> SpComb: 9
20:26:42  <OwenS> Of which, dtbld & gnu are GMake, usr/bin/make is SVR4 and dmake is Sun's own version
20:29:18  <SpComb> <-- not quite 1440x900
20:29:32  <OwenS> "Unfortunately, there is a horrendous variety of executable file formats even among
20:29:32  <OwenS> free Unix-like pc-based operating systems — generally a different format for each operating
20:29:32  <OwenS> system. Most of the relevant free operating systems use some variant of a.out format, but
20:29:32  <OwenS> some are moving to elf." <- You are writing a new version of this specification. In 2010. Which operating systems still use a.out?!
20:29:46  <OwenS> Thanks for no splitting warning, client...
20:31:06  <Rubidium> SpComb: for me the 80x25 spans 640x400 pixels (320x200 anyone?)
20:31:53  <OwenS> Rubidium: On VGA, text mode is actually 640x400 IIRC
20:32:06  <OwenS> Or is it 640x200 linedoubled? I don't remember
20:33:22  <aber> I hate widescreen 3200x1200, how can one work with that? I guess it fits a lot of shell windows...
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20:33:51  <Aylomen> is there a server, whic is like Biranetta's auto-pilot?
20:34:26  <OwenS> Aylomen: Sorry, what?
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20:34:46  <Aylomen> A server with a familiary playing athmosphere
20:34:59  <OwenS> Auto-pilot isn't a server. Its a tool
20:35:09  <PeterT> It's a TCL script, to be exact
20:35:12  <Aylomen> y, I know
20:35:34  <PeterT> Define what you mean by "Like Brianetta's autopilot"?
20:35:44  <PeterT> There are servers run with AutoPilot
20:35:47  <Eddi|zuHause> <Rubidium> so kms made my non-X console a mere 240x75 <-- apparently my console is 275x32
20:36:09  <Aylomen> but I mean the nice playing athmosphere at Brianetta's sevrer (which is off now)
20:37:49  <Rubidium> Aylomen: that server has been down for literally years now
20:37:52  <Eddi|zuHause> (that's about full screen width and half screen height)
20:38:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i thought that went down around 0.6-ish
20:38:42  <Aylomen> and I search a server now, where I can play, which is similary to the old Biranetta's server
20:39:03  <Aylomen> must be half a year ago or so
20:39:31  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: 0.6-ish is 2 years ago
20:39:31  <Eddi|zuHause> more like 2-3 years
20:39:39  <Aylomen> no
20:39:43  <Aylomen> last year I played on it
20:39:44  <Aylomen> surely
20:39:48  <Rubidium> Aylomen: don't know any servers like Brianetta's
20:39:56  <OwenS> Rubidium: Do you know many servers? :p
20:40:24  <Rubidium> OwenS: no
20:40:33  <Rubidium> does that matter though?
20:40:58  <OwenS> I suppose it matters that the channel may not be the most knowledgeble about this :p
20:41:00  <OwenS> The only ones I know all begin with #
20:41:10  <OwenS> #openttdcoop* :P
20:41:45  <Rubidium> oh my... there's a server running r8285-MiniIN (what a desync fest that must be)
20:42:15  <OwenS> Jeez... How long ago was MiniIN discontinued? :P
20:42:35  <Rubidium> @commit 8285
20:42:35  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: Commit by rubidium :: r8285 /branches/MiniIN (3 files) (2007-01-19 23:45:08 UTC)
20:42:36  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: [MiniIN] -Fix (r5657): [Physics] desync due to not saving 'flags' variable of VehicleRoad which is used for modelling the (acceleration) state of a road vehicle.
20:42:48  <Rubidium> shortly after that
20:43:23  <Eddi|zuHause> i can find evidence of brianettas server running 0.6.2 and 0.6.3rc1
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20:45:09  <Rubidium> MiniIN stopped at 0.5.0
20:46:27  <PeterT> Oh, wow
20:46:37  <PeterT> I didn't know MiniIN was actually maintained by developers
20:47:06  <Eddi|zuHause> for stretched definitions of "maintain" :p
20:47:22  <PeterT> I thought it was a patchpack
20:47:29  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it was
20:47:41  <Terkhen> and I didn't know it included realistic acceleration for road vehicles
20:47:54  <Eddi|zuHause> the one with the highest life span
20:48:34  <OwenS> I remember playing with the original IN. Though I suppose playing 0.3 "dates me" more :p
20:48:45  <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: i believe it was a different acceleration patch than the one that ended up in trunk
20:48:50  <Aylomen> in forum under "random sreenshots" are sreenies from Biranetta's standard from april 09. think it was october or so, when it went down
20:50:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't find the closing announcement, but 1. October it appears to have been down for a while already
20:50:50  <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: that's very likely, the code is very different and uses different constants / design decisions
20:51:39  <Aylomen> thats was just a guess date
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20:54:24  <Rubidium> Aylomen: Brianetta's server is dead for a long time; might be that sometimes he plays a single game and such, but it's more not-there than there for the last years
20:55:29  <Eddi|zuHause> i find evidence of there being a server on 10. June
21:00:10  <Rubidium> should we say "English only" now?
21:01:16  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19565 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp newgrf_callbacks.h newgrf_industrytiles.cpp): -Fix: some NewGRF callbacks were named incorrectly
21:01:38  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: you can try that, but i'm not entirely sure it'll change anything :p
21:02:01  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: thought so... too much rust and such
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21:03:28  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
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21:18:46  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19566 /trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp: -Fix (r11216, r11202): don't return a random colour for unowned industries in var 45; TTDPatch doesn't seem to set the colour data in that case either.
21:23:01  <__ln__> 00:00 <@Rubidium> should we say "English only" now?  <--- preferably yes
21:26:14  <Terkhen> good night
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21:27:00  <OwenS> Hmm... Stovis ( ) needs a visualization for Bogosort
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21:29:11  <OwenS> Stovis? What was I thinking? Sortvis :p
21:29:34  <ddfreyne> stokvis
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21:35:11  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19567 /branches/1.0/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
21:35:11  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
21:35:11  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Feature: Give more detailed error message when trying to build a too long bridge (r19561)
21:35:11  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Do not return a random colour for unowned industries in var 45; TTDPatch does not seem to set the colour data in that case either and it could lead to desyncs (r19566)
21:35:11  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: Window::OnResize() was not always called while resizing a window causing incorrect windows [FS#3730] (r19563, r19558)
21:35:12  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: Bridge build error message should not show the same message twice (r19560, r19559)
21:35:12  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: - Fix: Missed conversion to checking temporary data broke rail type setting upon changing traction type (r19557)
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22:02:06  * OwenS wonders how quickly a Bogosort becomes unbearably slow :p
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22:16:14  <OwenS> XD
22:16:14  <OwenS> Bogosort takes more time than all the useful algorithms combined
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23:00:23  <Eddi|zuHause> why didn't i think of that?
23:00:56  <KenjiE20> lol
23:02:09  <glx> and the ground ?
23:15:08  <OwenS> glx: I assume the idea is that its carried by the other cable
23:15:12  <OwenS> Or, you may have a ground loop :p
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