Log for #openttd on 10th April 2010:
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00:20:35  <aber> you guys have not so much luck with mac developers...
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00:23:21  <Eddi|zuHause> piro: try readin up on transfer orders. but generally you can only transfer in one direction, so its use is diminished for bi-directional cargos like passenger, mail or valuables. they are better suited for single direction cargos.
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00:24:41  <Eddi|zuHause> so you can either transport passengers from the town to the dock/airport, or from the dock/airport to the town, but not both
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01:36:47  <piro> What is the point of making longer train stations?
01:37:14  <fjb> Handling longer trains.
01:38:50  <De_Ghosty> if ur train is longer than platform the train that doesn't fit is delayed in loading/unloading
01:39:03  <DJNekkid> yes
01:39:29  <DJNekkid> if that were a q'
01:45:40  <piro> This game is so awesome
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02:07:06  <Scriptdaemon> Does OpenTTD save anything to the registry in Windows (specifically, the .zip download)?
02:08:30  <Scriptdaemon> And if not, is there a way (e.g. command line argument) to change the settings directory?
02:08:56  <glx> it's explained in the readme
02:13:02  <Scriptdaemon> Alright, thank you. I'm developing a package for OpenTTD. :)
02:17:31  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: glx * r19596 /trunk/src/network/network_internal.h: -Fix (r19593): dedicated server always fast forwarding if compiled without DEBUG_DUMP_COMMANDS
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03:05:51  <Eddi|zuHause> gnah... my new (<1 year) mouse's mouse wheel is giving up...
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03:11:22  <Eddi|zuHause> and it wasn't the cheapest mouse either...
03:13:41  <piro> So there is pretty much no way to easily replace lots of old vehicles if there's no better vehicles being offered, correct?
03:14:14  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, there is
03:14:26  <De_Ghosty> auto replace in options
03:14:28  <Eddi|zuHause> in advanced settings->vehicles->replace vehicles when they are old
03:15:27  <Eddi|zuHause> the english language is missing the equivalent of the german word "doch"...
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03:37:49  <SirSquidness> crap.
03:37:50  <SirSquidness> oh no.
03:38:22  <piro> Eddi|zuHause: Bad ass. Thank you
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03:40:31  <piro> Also, if I have a bunch of vehicles going to a particular station, can I change the route of a bunch of them at once?
03:40:36  <piro> Without doing order sharing
03:40:55  <piro> (Because I don't like the permanence of order sharing)
03:42:48  <Eddi|zuHause> no
03:42:55  <Eddi|zuHause> either all or nothing
03:44:45  <NevEragon> hrm, i got openttd a few days ago and ive been playing with it, but for the life of me, i cant get teh convert rail button to work... i just get "no suitable railroad track" every time. Is anyone familiar with this problem?
03:49:28  <Eddi|zuHause> NevEragon: you need to select a different railtype than you already have built
03:50:23  <NevEragon> oh hey, i didnt notice i should hold down the rail button, thanks
03:50:29  <NevEragon> thnx Eddi|zuHause
03:50:32  <Eddi|zuHause> click and hold the rail button in the main toolbar
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04:04:33  <piro> Is there a way to show nearest depot? I can't find a depot I placed O_o
04:05:39  <Eddi|zuHause> use ctrl+x
04:07:11  <piro> What are depots considered? Stations?
04:07:24  <piro> Er, buildables. Sorry
04:08:11  <Eddi|zuHause> "stations" means all player property, including depots
04:19:10  <piro> Ok, next question :) If a station at a city is producing crap tons of passengers, does it help to create a second station? As in, does it split the load?
04:20:47  <__ln__> good morning
04:39:25  <yuriks_> do entry-exit pairs cross regular block signals?
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04:40:13  <NCommander> Hey all
04:47:46  * NCommander is starting to learn to play OpenTTD, and is feeling a bit overwhelmed
04:57:55  <piro> NCommander: Haha. Yes
04:58:15  <NCommander> piro: I'm also having issues with signals, although I think I'm finally getting it (although I'm too scared to turn on an AI player :-/)
05:00:10  * NCommander hasn't even turned on any NewGFXs or figure dout how add them :-/
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05:05:48  <NCommander> Stupid quesiton, but if I want to build a second track to a station, why is it look different if I put two side by side versus build it initially with two (or more), am I doing something wrong?
05:09:28  <yuriks_> nah, it just doesn't update
05:09:40  <yuriks_> it's for all intents and purposes the same thing though, except graphically
05:09:55  <NCommander> ah, thanks
05:10:04  * NCommander is now trying to figure out how to use time tables effectively
05:10:15  <yuriks_> I havn't even looked at them yet =P
05:10:17  <yuriks_>
05:10:22  <yuriks_> my lovely station design ^_^
05:14:22  * NCommander is making progress at learning how to build decent stations and hubs I think
05:14:36  <NCommander> yuriks_: OOOH, thats nice!
05:16:40  * NCommander is going to see if he can get his spur line trains being profitable in both directions by towing some empty steel cars
05:16:58  <De_Ghosty> that thing is
05:17:00  <De_Ghosty> errrrrrrrrrrrrr
05:18:06  <NCommander> De_Ghosty: well, I want to bring raw supplies up, and then have it bring back any steel from the foundary thats available
05:18:06  <yuriks_> De_Ghosty: problem? XD
05:18:21  <NCommander> Transport it to my hub station, and then have another train from there take it and bring it over to the factory
05:18:35  <yuriks_> hub stations.... that sounds like a nice idea
05:18:46  <yuriks_> currently I'm just hauling everything directly
05:18:51  <NCommander> yuriks_: I'll shot you what mine looks like if I can get this to work
05:18:55  * NCommander has bad luck with signals
05:19:05  <yuriks_> it took me a while to get the hang of then
05:19:06  <De_Ghosty> transfer is slowwwwwwwwwww
05:19:18  <De_Ghosty> yuriks_ there is a type of signal
05:19:21  <De_Ghosty> with 2 lights
05:19:32  <NCommander> De_Ghosty: not if the train is already running between those stations. This way instead of having one run be completely unprofitable, it can work in both
05:19:39  <yuriks_> and my trains still deadlock sometimes, they stopped since I gave up on combined Terminus-RoRo though =P
05:19:52  <yuriks_> De_Ghosty: the path ones?
05:19:56  <De_Ghosty> yea
05:20:02  <NCommander> The hills suck though, I need two engines on each train to get them moving quickly
05:20:05  <yuriks_> what about them? for my station?
05:20:10  <De_Ghosty> yes
05:20:14  <yuriks_> NCommander: realistic acceleration path ftw <_< >_>
05:20:15  <De_Ghosty> they are lazy man signals
05:20:23  <yuriks_> De_Ghosty: indeed they are =)
05:20:30  <NCommander> yuriks_: ?
05:20:34  <NCommander> Where do I turn that on?
05:20:35  <yuriks_> patch*
05:20:40  <yuriks_> advanced options
05:20:48  <yuriks_>
05:21:38  <yuriks_> De_Ghosty: you're suggesting replacing all signals on my stations with path ones?
05:21:48  <NCommander> yuriks_: do I need a NewGFX for that?
05:21:53  <yuriks_> no...
05:22:12  <yuriks_> you don't need newgfx for anything afaik =-P
05:22:14  * yuriks_ doesn't use it
05:23:34  <yuriks_> hmmm, why is this water train always bringing up a net loss
05:23:45  <NCommander> yuriks_: I don't see to have it in my openttd
05:23:52  <yuriks_> NCommander: you do
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05:24:55  <De_Ghosty> no your fine
05:24:59  <De_Ghosty> err
05:25:04  <De_Ghosty> they wait too long too slow?
05:25:54  <yuriks_> De_Ghosty: hmm, yeah, they wait quite a bit I think, water supply is just 40k a month
05:26:05  <yuriks_> but I'm trying to bring that up by having a train always idle there loading
05:26:06  * NCommander has some junctions he has to optimize
05:26:52  <yuriks_> De_Ghosty: it also travels very far =P
05:28:13  <yuriks_>
05:28:20  <yuriks_> this is my horrible home-made junction =P
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05:29:06  <yuriks_> also, is that return on the back thing I did on the top-most stations a horribly bad idea or is it fine?
05:32:19  <nighthawk_c_m> design can be simplified with faster access to the Brunwell North, but that junction will cause trouble with faster trains
05:32:32  <NCommander> ok that's working
05:32:33  <NCommander> hrm
05:32:38  * NCommander needs to get his signals working
05:32:52  <yuriks_> nighthawk_c_m: yeah, it was kind of bolted on
05:33:16  <nighthawk_c_m> For thr Station try a Terminus with PBS
05:33:24  <nighthawk_c_m> its much smaller
05:33:31  <De_Ghosty> junctions are good if u have lots of train
05:33:45  <De_Ghosty> also fast and doesn't jam
05:34:03  <yuriks_> nighthawk_c_m: like I have on Brunnwell? (that's a slanted terminus)
05:34:08  <NCommander> I'm guessing I'm not using combo signals correctly
05:34:09  <De_Ghosty> tips : don't use such short turns it slows the trains down
05:34:22  <De_Ghosty> you two should play together :D
05:34:23  <yuriks_> De_Ghosty: yeah, comes from the bolted on part ;P
05:34:39  <nighthawk_c_m>
05:34:52  <yuriks_> yup
05:35:12  <yuriks_> I was gonna use that, but though maybe that would be faster
05:35:32  <nighthawk_c_m> Oh that is pretty fast usually
05:35:41  <piro> Jesus. I can't keep up with the demand!
05:35:47  <piro> And towns are getting really angry at me :(
05:35:52  <nighthawk_c_m> I think it wont be slower
05:36:18  <nighthawk_c_m> For curves I had something .. gimme a sec
05:36:24  <yuriks_> any pointers on doing a junction to feed both stations?
05:36:40  <yuriks_> I need to redesign that whole mess, anyway
05:36:58  <NCommander> what type of signals are those?
05:37:29  <yuriks_> looks like vanilla block signals
05:37:50  <nighthawk_c_m> well ... hmmmmm
05:37:57  * NCommander is trying to get his station to work right, but I'm guessing combo is not the right type of signal
05:38:04  <nighthawk_c_m>
05:38:06  <yuriks_> nighthawk_c_m: do two of those in a row?
05:38:43  <yuriks_> maybe I could do some kind of modified cloverleaf with exits/entrances at the loops
05:39:28  <nighthawk_c_m> Maybe, I never used a cloverleaf, I try to get my LL_RR Mainline with three sidelines to work
05:39:37  <piro> This is ridiculous. What the heck are you supposed to do when a town needs a bunch of crap but won't let you build anything?
05:39:48  <yuriks_> piro: plant trees, of course :)
05:39:55  <nighthawk_c_m> weait, plant trees, sleep with the mayors wife and so on
05:40:14  <yuriks_> how do I bribe towns, anyway? is it the 'rebuild roads' option?
05:41:00  <yuriks_> "LL_RR Mainline with three sidelines" what would that be?
05:41:04  <nighthawk_c_m> yeah, but prtetty expensive, dont do it unless you have enough cashflow
05:41:06  <yuriks_> two roads for each direction?
05:41:24  <nighthawk_c_m> no, gimme a sec, anyone have a good picture uploading place?
05:41:26  <NCommander> yuriks_: I don't get how to do it properly if the station is two tracks and an end point
05:41:35  <yuriks_> nighthawk_c_m: hmm, tinypic?
05:42:08  <yuriks_> NCommander: two tracks along the entire railway?
05:42:37  <NCommander> yuriks_: its two tracks feeding into a single station that can cross over each other but currently don't overlap
05:43:12  <yuriks_> NCommander:
05:43:14  <yuriks_> NCommander: this?
05:43:30  <NCommander> That
05:43:33  <NCommander> No idea how to do that prpoerly
05:43:42  <yuriks_> well, the solution is in the screenshot ;P
05:43:47  <yuriks_> (the lower one)
05:43:54  <NCommander> heh
05:43:59  * NCommander fels retard
05:44:02  <NCommander> *retarded >.<;
05:44:09  <yuriks_> those are path signals
05:44:46  <NCommander> yuriks_: ugh, but they are still all read ...
05:44:53  <nighthawk_c_m>
05:44:54  <yuriks_> how come I'm not transporting 100% of the production on this water supply if I always have a train loading there at all times? -_-
05:45:10  <yuriks_> NCommander: path signals are always red until a train approaches it
05:45:15  <NCommander> yuriks_: oh
05:45:24  * NCommander thinks he finally has a grip on signals!
05:45:28  <nighthawk_c_m> 100% is basically impossible unless you have a high end high speed engine etc
05:46:04  <NCommander> yup
05:46:06  <NCommander> that seems to work now
05:46:07  <NCommander> yay
05:46:07  <nighthawk_c_m> btw that screenshot shows mainline with a sideline junction, pretty basic, I just learned how to do them
05:46:31  <yuriks_> nighthawk_c_m: that seems to take a lot of space =P, tidy, though
05:46:40  <yuriks_> well, 'tidy', bridges and tunnels everywhere
05:47:16  <nighthawk_c_m> well, it is designed for a trainlength of 5 tiles (10 wagons including locos) so they dont slow down or jam
05:48:23  <yuriks_> oh, transport rate falls if you take too long to transport?
05:48:37  <nighthawk_c_m> Hmmhmm.. yepp, that too
05:48:52  <yuriks_> ah, that could be the reason then
05:49:02  <yuriks_> those water tanks take very long trips =P
05:50:07  <yuriks_> nighthawk_c_m: can trains do returns with that setup?
05:50:24  <nighthawk_c_m> what do you mean with returns
05:50:41  <yuriks_> reverse direction (changing to the correct track)
05:51:43  <NCommander> ahaha
05:51:44  <NCommander> awesome
05:51:47  * NCommander has transfers working
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05:52:45  <NCommander> argh
05:52:52  <NCommander> my path signals aren't working properly :-/
05:53:39  <nighthawkcm> maybe plain old entry - exit - combo signals work better?
05:54:00  <nighthawkcm> i find them easier in terms of the logic of larger networks, dont like pbs there too much
05:56:00  <NCommander> Ah, got it
05:56:01  <piro> So if you create more bus stations, you give yourself more passengers to take care of?
05:56:03  <NCommander> bahaha
05:56:04  <NCommander> Sweet
05:56:06  <NCommander> that worked
05:56:17  * NCommander isn't sure how cost effective this route is, but that was awesome to watch
05:56:44  <nighthawkcm> hehe, eyecandy sometrimes totally wins over usefulness / effectiveness of a network
05:58:23  <nighthawkcm> if the spreads of the stations dont overlap too much yes - it increases the amount of passengers per station
05:58:37  <nighthawkcm> i mean the amount in general increases
05:58:57  <nighthawkcm> on the single stations it depends how much there is in their coverage
05:59:11  <piro> Fuck. These stations are getting overloaded. How do you cope with it besides throwing more buses at them?
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06:04:32  <nighthawkcm> you cant except to change toa  method of transportation with much higher loading capacities
06:04:44  <nighthawkcm> meaning trains / airplanes
06:05:10  <piro> I'm not sure I follow you
06:05:50  <nighthawkcm> well, you have a passenger bus stop that accumulates more passengers then your busses can haul, right?
06:06:46  <yuriks_> speaking of eye candy, I just burned a bunch of money doing this:
06:06:48  <yuriks_>
06:07:11  <piro> yuriks_: Yes.
06:07:54  <nighthawkcm> cute, maybe move further west (left to increase the size of the loops for train speed?
06:08:38  <piro> nighthawkcm: So what should I do?
06:09:30  <yuriks_> yay, I have one million pounds =P
06:09:34  <nighthawkcm> Well, you cant do much usually except more busses, if the bus station is at the edge of a town/ city you can try to use trains to transport a larger amount of passengers, but besides that not really anything
06:11:59  * piro has  mil :D
06:12:23  <nighthawkcm> 194 fastly shrinking due to many trains being purchased
06:12:30  <yuriks_> =o
06:12:48  <yuriks_> what year? I'm on 1970 still =P
06:13:29  <piro> 1988
06:13:36  <NCommander> wow
06:13:40  <NCommander> transfers work amazingly well
06:13:49  * NCommander has everything feeding into a hub station
06:14:00  <piro> This is my first game. I am quite overwhelmed
06:14:26  <yuriks_> I always start a new one, I need to stop doing that =P
06:15:03  <nighthawkcm> 1986 - 14 Planes 41 trains
06:15:16  * yuriks_ has 13 trains
06:15:22  <nighthawkcm> I hope to reach 250 Trains in this network .. hopefully it works out
06:18:47  <yuriks_> what do the circle colors in the train overview window mean?
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06:20:40  <nighthawkcm> judges the income I think, green is very good, yellow is ok, grey is hard limit and red means you loose money
06:20:56  <yuriks_> hmm, makes sense
06:21:03  <yuriks_> they're all on green ^_^
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06:25:52  <NCommander> wow
06:26:01  * NCommander is incredibly happy with his performance
06:26:10  <NCommander> Is there a good way to take a screen shot so people can see how much crack I am on?
06:26:49  <nighthawkcm> cmd + s
06:27:07  <nighthawkcm> strg + s on my keyboard
06:28:32  <NCommander> - yuriks_
06:28:39  <NCommander> so how much crack am I on for this design?
06:28:53  * NCommander notes that everything is actually profitable, although its not 100% clear
06:30:00  <yuriks_> two-way rails! yuck!
06:30:02  <yuriks_> =)
06:30:22  <nighthawkcm> nice feeder service ^^
06:31:04  <NCommander> yuriks_: it works extremely well
06:31:08  <NCommander> nighthawkcm: thanks, this is my first night playing
06:32:00  <nighthawkcm> welcome to the most addictive transport game  .. I played Transport Tycoon back in the days when they first released it anno domini before the pope was born ^^
06:32:52  <NCommander> nighthawkcm: I'm thinking of setting up truck service to funnel livestock into the factory, as those farms aren't making enough to warrent running additional train cars
06:33:45  <NCommander> yuriks_: what's wrong with two way track? If I made this one way, I'd have to run four tracks for six trains
06:33:48  <nighthawkcm> careful, if you service them well they might increase production, usually its suggested to use trucks on short routes, but thats if you aim for efficiency, otherwise its cool, and chaotic ^
06:34:41  <yuriks_> NCommander: was talking about your mainline
06:34:45  <NCommander> nighthawkcm: indeed. I thought about using trucks to feed from the Mines to the factory, but it didn't seem too much
06:34:48  <yuriks_> which seems to be two way
06:34:49  <NCommander> yuriks_: I know
06:34:54  <NCommander> yuriks_: and it is,
06:35:05  <yuriks_> you don't need more tracks, you just put more trains on the same track
06:35:17  <NCommander> yuriks_: its a matter of where trains are going
06:35:39  <NCommander> yuriks_: right now, I cna get better performance using both tracks as iron moves a LOT faster than coal
06:35:47  <NCommander> since its feeding
06:36:07  <NCommander> so I can run two trains the same direction, and then have the coal trains run in parallel with each other
06:37:20  <yuriks_> huh?
06:37:31  <yuriks_> you can run two trains in the same direction with one way tracks =P
06:40:18  <NCommander> yuriks_: I suppose, maybe time to change things up
06:42:19  * NCommander should start replacing his trains
06:44:58  <NCommander> yeah
06:45:02  <NCommander> time to make the mainline one way
06:47:15  <piro> Thank god for autoreplacing of old vehicles. I think I'd die if I had to manually replace them all
06:51:08  <NCommander> oops
06:51:12  * NCommander just crashed two trains
06:51:14  <NCommander> Oh well
06:51:17  <NCommander> I think I finally have the hang of this
06:51:18  <yuriks_> it happens
06:51:22  <NCommander> although I'm sitll no where near perfect
06:51:58  <NCommander> anyone up for some multiplayer? (if they don't mind playing with a noob)
06:53:29  <yuriks_>
06:53:32  <yuriks_> I probably over-engineered this
06:53:48  <NCommander> yuriks_: probably
06:55:20  <yuriks_> NCommander: I would play, but I'm gonna stop playing now for the night XD
06:55:32  <NCommander> yuriks_: no need to stop ;-)
06:55:49  <yuriks_> yes there is, 4am
06:56:27  <yuriks_> ugh, why does this city randomly starts and stops accepting food
07:07:40  <piro> You can crash trains?
07:07:51  <nighthawkcm> yes you can
07:10:21  <De_Ghosty> yuriks_ cuz ur station is on the edge of town
07:10:34  <De_Ghosty> use the question mark and click  on a building
07:10:40  <De_Ghosty> it tell you what it accepts
07:10:50  <yuriks_> ooooo
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07:11:14  <De_Ghosty> when build changes sometimes it change to accept goods
07:11:22  <yuriks_> yeah, I'm on the edge of the map
07:11:22  <De_Ghosty> or other stuff
07:11:27  <yuriks_> of the town*
07:11:34  <yuriks_> any way around that? =|
07:11:46  <De_Ghosty> yea make a bigger station
07:11:47  <De_Ghosty> lol
07:11:54  <De_Ghosty> so you touch more of the city
07:12:06  <yuriks_> De_Ghosty: there are tracks between the station and the city =P
07:12:44  <De_Ghosty> is ur game on network?
07:12:59  <De_Ghosty> well
07:13:00  <yuriks_>
07:13:02  <yuriks_> yeah
07:13:16  <yuriks_> I'm on network mode, but playing solo xD
07:13:39  <De_Ghosty> why don't u just turn your station sideways?
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07:13:46  <dih2> ^^
07:13:58  <yuriks_> De_Ghosty: tracking get's tricky, I think
07:14:30  <yuriks_> hmm, I think I'll do that
07:17:47  <Jupix> long term solution might be to start growing that town and concentrate on other parts of the network while it does that :P
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07:18:09  <yuriks_> kind of hard to grow the town if I can't reliably deliver food to it
07:18:42  <Jupix> does it need food to grow? it's outside the desert
07:18:53  <De_Ghosty> fyi only edge of town accept food i think city accept goods and something
07:19:08  <De_Ghosty> it need water on desert
07:19:14  <De_Ghosty> scenario
07:19:24  <Jupix> right
07:21:03  <Jupix> Any town where the centre square is in the desert requires food and water to grow. Non-desert towns require neither food nor water.
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07:21:29  <Jupix> i'd run a few buses there and see if starts to grow
07:21:51  <andythenorth> the town window tells you if food + water are required
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07:22:44  <De_Ghosty> o rly?
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07:22:51  <yuriks_> hah
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07:24:38  <yuriks_> well, heh, turns out it didn't need food nor water to grow
07:24:50  <yuriks_> so, passenger trains?
07:25:00  <yuriks_> or do you mean local buses?
07:26:50  <Jupix> local buses
07:27:10  <yuriks_> is it a good idea to set buses to fully load?
07:27:13  <Jupix> passenger trains might also work but might also disrupt the cargo station
07:28:43  <Jupix> i'm not sure which is better but personally i often build 2 bus stops and 2 or 4 buses with one full load stop per bus, with each bus full loading a different stop
07:28:56  <NCommander> when playing with competeriors, they don't start at the beginning?
07:29:03  <yuriks_>
07:29:42  <Jupix> that should work :P
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07:31:03  <Jupix> might be a good idea to terraform the fruit plantation / farm side of the train station so that you can tunnel underneath it and expand the city there
07:32:03  <yuriks_> hmmm?
07:32:25  <Jupix> that's just splitting hairs, though :P
07:32:43  <yuriks_> what do you mean with terraform, though?
07:33:32  <nighthawkcm> change the landscape round it to your needs
07:33:35  <Jupix> lower the land next to the station so that you can demolish one of the buildings on the other side of the hill and build a tunnel
07:34:07  <Jupix> then you can build roads in the free space and the city will possibly grow there
07:34:24  <Jupix> and the train station will become encapsulated in the city and receive a lot of passengers
07:34:41  <yuriks_> oh, you mean making a road tunnel?
07:34:45  <Jupix> yeah
07:34:51  <yuriks_> ah, will do
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07:37:44  <yuriks_>
07:37:47  <yuriks_> like this?
07:38:48  <Jupix> exactly
07:41:56  <yuriks_> wow
07:42:03  <yuriks_> I didn't know buses helped this much =(
07:42:12  <yuriks_> town already has 1k people
07:43:26  <Jupix> :)
07:44:31  <Jupix> is it starting to grow to the SE?
07:44:47  <yuriks_> wait, I read it wrong
07:44:53  <yuriks_> it has 700 =P
07:45:10  <Jupix> i was thinking that was pretty fast :D
07:45:46  <yuriks_> so I have 2.5mil and have no idea what to do with the money
07:45:55  <yuriks_> apart from more silly mega projects
07:49:03  <yuriks_>
07:49:10  <yuriks_> hmm, can you see what's wrong with my signaling?
07:49:25  <yuriks_> the trains exit fine via the bottom tunnel if the left section of the station isn't full
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07:51:03  * NCommander is a very successful trucking and rail company going
07:51:26  <Jupix> yuriks_: you probably need an entry signal at the west side tunnel entrance
07:52:04  <yuriks_> hmm
07:52:11  <Jupix> i mean east side
07:52:12  <Jupix> :D
07:53:35  <Jupix> the east section exit signals are showing red because the fruit train is stopped within that block
07:53:47  <Jupix> unless this is some PBS thing that i can't decipher
07:53:59  <yuriks_> the fruit train got stuck there
07:54:06  <yuriks_> because none of the trains would exit the station
07:54:17  <yuriks_> I tried to make one ignore the signals a few times and it got itself there somehow
07:55:08  <Jupix> yeah, try removing the piece of track that connects the right side tunnel to the loop at the bottom and see if the trains start leaving the station
07:55:27  <Jupix> if they do then you need to add signals
07:55:34  <yuriks_> ok, I did some manual plumbing and cleaned up the trains
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08:02:14  <Jupix> anyway, gonna go put summer tires on my car
08:02:16  <Jupix> later
08:04:32  * NCommander finds the AI isn't doing anything useful
08:04:33  <NCommander> :-/
08:07:43  <NCommander> wow
08:07:48  <NCommander> both AIs just got closed by creditors
08:07:49  <NCommander> :-/
08:10:09  <yuriks_> crap
08:10:15  <yuriks_> my new station positioning isn't supplying maize
08:10:18  <yuriks_> and I hadn't noticed
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08:18:13  <yuriks_> lol, I cheated
08:18:26  <yuriks_> stuck out a bunch of 1x1 stations to reach the farm
08:20:20  <yuriks_> ugh, trains are stuck again
08:21:15  <yuriks_> oh, problem solved
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09:04:01  <andythenorth> morning
09:04:38  <Alberth> good morning andy
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10:20:00  <Ammler> good day :-)
10:20:15  <Ammler> how does someone debug seg faults?
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10:25:26  <peter1138> either: run it in a debugger, or run it in a debugger with the core dump
10:31:17  <Ammler> hmm, for start I could enable asserts?
10:32:02  <Ammler> it needs days until it segfaults
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10:34:29  <frosch123> just type "ulimit -c unlimited" in the console before starting the server to enable core file generation
10:35:01  <frosch123> or put it directly in .bashrc or similiar :)
10:36:02  <frosch123> except you likely do not want corefiles on a webserver which regulary needs to restart services :p
10:42:56  <OwenS> frosch123, you mean, if you run lightHTTPd? :p
10:43:33  <frosch123> no idea, iirc it was best to not remeber anything about it, or so
10:55:05  <Rubidium> Ammler: by any chance, do you still have the autosave from the previous month and the desync logs?
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10:56:25  <Ammler> Rubidium: before this seg fault?
10:56:35  <Rubidium> yes, from before the segfault
10:56:44  <Rubidium> one from after it is kinda useless, ain't it?
10:57:48  <Rubidium> maybe SmatZ can, with his assembler knowledge, determing where in that function it crashed if he has the binary
10:57:58  <Ammler> :-( forgot to enable debug desync again
10:58:17  <Ammler> and disabled autosave because of the desync saves, so no
10:58:22  <Ammler> except the crash.sav
10:59:31  <Ammler>;O=D
10:59:43  <OwenS> Rubidium: On systems which support it, you should keep -g in and separate the debugging information out using the GNU debug link feature
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11:03:39  <planetmaker> a very good day to you :-)
11:04:29  <planetmaker> Ammler: do I get it right, we have a crashing PS?!
11:04:49  <Ammler> no
11:04:55  <Ammler> stable was it
11:05:09  <Ammler> ps is quite stable
11:05:18  <planetmaker> oh. crash on stable?!
11:05:30  <Ammler> yeah, we should enable asserts
11:05:42  <Rubidium>  PNG:        1.2.15beta5
11:05:43  <planetmaker> hm.
11:06:17  <Rubidium> that's 2007...
11:06:30  <Rubidium> what about all the CVEs that have been fixed since then?
11:06:34  <Ammler> ups
11:06:45  <Ammler> currentyl nightly is running with fast forward :-D
11:07:03  <Ammler> how do I slower that?
11:07:03  <planetmaker> 1.4.1 is current...
11:07:39  <Rubidium> or 1.2.43
11:07:49  <Rubidium> if you don't trust just-released libraries
11:08:09  <Rubidium> Ammler: I've made that for :)
11:08:35  <Rubidium> Ammler: to fix it, see the last commit
11:09:18  <OwenS> Rubidium, if it is, say, RHEL, then the fixes will have been backported (Though you would expect to see a .rh5 or such on the end...)
11:09:53  <Rubidium> OwenS: exactly
11:10:13  <Rubidium> still, releasing a beta in a long-time-stable release sounds kinda odd
11:10:21  <OwenS> True
11:10:21  <Ammler> this is debian lenny, afaik
11:10:52  <Rubidium> Ammler: no, it isn't... that has 1.2.27-2+lenny2
11:11:09  <Rubidium> it might be etch with 1.2.15~beta5-1+etch2
11:11:21  <Rubidium> but that doesn't have security support anymore
11:12:12  <Ammler> ah, etch, those debian names are confusing for outsiders :-)
11:12:48  <Ammler> you think, our crash could be because of the png?
11:12:57  <Ammler> or was that a side note?
11:13:08  <Rubidium> Ammler: then call it 4.0
11:13:20  <OwenS> Considering you're not running 32bpp on the server
11:13:20  <Rubidium> quite unlikely it's png
11:13:26  <peter1138> debian lenny, but your kernel is :s
11:13:48  <Rubidium> but something quite funky must have happened
11:14:16  <planetmaker> nice... TTRS is now on bananas.
11:14:23  <Rubidium> anyhow, please keep the binary and the crash log stuff around so "we" can look at it later; don't have the time to do that now
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11:16:00  <SmatZ> Rubidium: I tried it few times, but OTTD code is too complicated to find the correct place... one chance would be to compile binary with the same parameters, but do not strip it
11:16:05  <SmatZ> so there is at least some info
11:16:29  <SmatZ> code & addresses stay the same
11:17:37  <OwenS> This kind of thing is why I love the GDB debug links. You keep the small executables, but debugging information remains available
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11:19:07  <Terkhen> hello
11:20:36  <Ammler> Rubidium: for reference:
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11:35:30  <SmatZ> Ammler: I will get the binary and see what I can do :)
11:36:12  <SmatZ> hmm I need to get my ssh keys from backup...
11:37:16  <Ammler> <-- last nightly not mirrored?
11:39:24  <Ammler> TrueBrain: ^
11:39:54  <Rubidium> guess rsync failed and didn't notify us
11:41:02  <Rubidium> what does "protocol version mismatch -- is your shell clean?
11:41:08  <Rubidium> mean? with rsync?
11:41:59  <Ammler> Rubidium: looks like the other side made some bashrc hacks?
11:43:24  <Ammler> I added once "tail /var/log/messages" to bashrc and that failed my rsync script...
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12:02:13  <Jolteon> [12:59] <+Server> <Tepo99> LOL Fartfield :D :D :D
12:02:17  <Jolteon> OpenTTD has some delightful names.
12:06:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i have never seen any of those... :p
12:06:33  <Jolteon> Well, it's on a server.
12:06:42  <Jolteon> and players can't change names, i don't think?
12:06:46  <Jolteon> So it must have been auto-generated.
12:06:48  <Eoin> nope they cant
12:07:08  <Jolteon> auto-gen thne :p
12:07:09  <Jolteon> amusing
12:07:12  <Eddi|zuHause> => only british people are childish enough to care about that
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12:10:31  <SmatZ> Ammler: Rubidium: crashed at company_cmd.cpp:654
12:10:33  <SmatZ> 		c = Company::Get(_local_company);
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12:10:51  <SmatZ> which is strange, _local_company != COMPANY_SPECTATOR is checked
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12:11:08  <SmatZ> Ammler: setting show_finances 0 should prevent the crash
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12:22:30  <SmatZ> Ammler: can you open a bugreport with please?
12:23:17  <Ammler> SmatZ: I can, but I have no more infos...
12:23:31  <SmatZ> Ammler: I will add what I have found :)
12:23:41  <Ammler> I wasn't around and we don't have any presaves or logs
12:24:09  <SmatZ> no problem
12:24:18  <SmatZ> the issue is _local_company == 0 for dedicated server
12:24:22  <SmatZ> which is strange
12:27:09  <peter1138> and there's no company 0 in this case?
12:28:40  <Ammler>
12:29:42  <SmatZ> peter1138: yes, there isn't
12:40:35  <jordi> Rubidium: see, it built on sparc now
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13:00:57  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r19597 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Fix: Removing NewGRFs from the GUI list leaked.
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13:53:04  <PeterT> I've opened my 3979 port, and yet the server isn't working:
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13:59:23  <Eddi|zuHause> then you didn't open it correctly
13:59:54  <PeterT> I'll take another look
14:00:23  <PeterT> after a port is opened, do you need to restart the router or anything?
14:01:42  <Eddi|zuHause> this looks like local networking/firewall problems, not router problems
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14:03:00  <PeterT> Oh, I probably forgot to allow an exception in the firewall
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14:26:19  <saLOUt> hi all, I just installed openttd 1.0.0 from opensuse repos. I have two problems.
14:27:02  <saLOUt> 1) admiralAI produces errors:
14:28:17  <saLOUt> 2) how do I get the old windows music to work? with old versions it works after I copied the files into the right place, but now the files seems to not be found as there is no windows options in the music settings.
14:28:47  <PeterT> Game options -> Music set
14:28:59  <PeterT> report that error in the appropriate AI thread
14:29:30  <saLOUt> PeterT: there is only one music set: openmsk
14:29:43  <PeterT> No original_windows?
14:29:47  <PeterT> Strange.
14:30:21  <Eddi|zuHause> saLOUt: you're sure that it's the right place, AND the files are unmodified?
14:30:27  <saLOUt> PeterT: I tested openttd with admiralAI on windows XP and got no error. So the error may probably not related to the AI itself...
14:31:00  <Eddi|zuHause> saLOUt: can you check the md5sums of the files, and compare them with original_windows.obm (in the game directory)
14:31:01  <saLOUt> Eddi|zuHause: I only know that it worked before with an old release. I think it was something like 0.7
14:31:25  <Eddi|zuHause> saLOUt: yes, the old releases did not check the md5sum
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14:33:06  <saLOUt> Eddi|zuHause: in /usr/share/openttd/gm there is a openmsx.obm but no original_windows.obm.
14:33:31  <Eddi|zuHause> saLOUt: it should have been installed with the game
14:33:59  <saLOUt> so it should be placed next to openmsx.obm?
14:34:00  <Eddi|zuHause> ./bin/gm/orig_win.obm
14:34:01  <Eddi|zuHause> ./bin/gm/no_music.obm
14:35:31  <Ammler> /use/share/openttd/gm
14:35:38  <Ammler> usr*
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14:37:17  <saLOUt> Ammler, Eddi|zuHause: the opensuse repo package called openttd-data doesnt contain any other obm-files.
14:37:37  <Eddi|zuHause> saLOUt: no, the openttd package itself must contain it
14:37:42  <Ammler> you used the games repo, I assume?
14:37:59  <saLOUt> I don't know if this is really a bug, because you have to copy some files manually anyway
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14:38:13  <saLOUt> yes, the game repo
14:38:19  <Ammler> saLOUt: you have to copy the original ttd files, yes.
14:38:47  <saLOUt> Ammler: so the next time i copy these files i will pay attention to copy the obm file, too.
14:38:48  <Ammler> you need to copy those to ~/.openttd/
14:39:00  <Eddi|zuHause> saLOUt: this is a bug in the packaging, if the openttd package (not openttd-data) does not contain those two files
14:39:08  <Ammler> saLOUt: no need, they should be in the package
14:39:27  <saLOUt> Ammler: do you use the same repo?
14:39:35  <Ammler> but I guess, the guy there does because of some reason do a manual install
14:40:04  <Ammler> no, I use
14:40:07  <saLOUt> is the mail adress mentioned in the .rpm meta infos
14:40:30  <Ammler> yeah, I know, I already prepared a patch for him...
14:41:03  <saLOUt> so i don't report the bug as you will already do?
14:41:16  <Ammler> if you like, do
14:41:25  <Ammler> so he might see others having issues
14:41:32  <saLOUt> whats the difference between those two openttd repos?
14:41:46  <Ammler> games is kinda official suse
14:41:57  <Ammler> the other one is "my factory"
14:43:09  <Ammler> it does also have dev tools for newgrfs
14:43:26  <Ammler> or the package to join #openttdcoop server
14:45:03  <Ammler> or dedicated server version :-)
14:45:11  <saLOUt> Ammler: you should try to get a copy of your packages directly into the games repo. I think there is something like a copy-function in opensuse build service to reach this
14:45:31  <Ammler> yes, called submit-request, I know :-)
14:46:20  <Ammler> because of support for dedicated and patches and branches, my spec is a bit too complicated for mainstream, I fear.
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14:50:15  <marmotz> hi, excuse my english but i'm french... i'm using Ubuntu (10.04 but 9.10 has the same problem). I've downloaded openttd 1.0, opensfx and openmsx. No soucy with openttd and opensfx. No music played. when i launch openttd music player, all the tracks was displaying very quickly but no music played.
14:50:42  <marmotz> i must install a midi player on my ubuntu to play music in openttd ?
14:50:48  <glx> yes
14:50:51  <Ammler> timidity
14:51:12  <marmotz> i trying
14:51:15  <glx> and also check known-bugs.txt
14:51:21  <marmotz> i already check
14:51:33  <Ammler> I would guess, if you install with apt-get, such things does happen automatically
14:51:33  <marmotz> i follow all instructions, but nothing to do...
14:52:09  <marmotz> Ammler: no, openttd was installed by .deb on openttd website
14:52:20  <marmotz> \o/
14:52:31  <marmotz> thanks Ammler i've got the music :)
14:52:40  <Ammler> yaw :-)
14:52:42  <marmotz> oh yes it's good
14:53:08  <marmotz> thanks !!
14:53:23  <Ammler> doesn't the openttd deb packages recommend to install timidity?
14:53:23  <marmotz> and thank you to understand my very bad english :)
14:53:35  <PeterT> how interesting: <bja> Sorry to bug but todays connection is a bit flakey
14:53:36  <marmotz> i don't see
14:53:40  <PeterT> Oops.
14:53:41  <PeterT>
14:53:43  <PeterT> rather
14:53:45  <Ammler> or maybe you disalbed installing recommends?
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14:54:39  <marmotz> Ammler: it was installed with GDebi
14:55:05  <marmotz> one click on install... i don't check recommanded package
14:55:08  <Ammler> I do not know software managers of debian, was just a guess. :-)
14:56:57  <marmotz> ok :)
14:57:01  <marmotz> thank you :)
14:57:07  <marmotz> and good bye :)
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15:09:20  <saLOUt> Ammler: did your repo openttd version works with admiralAI?
15:09:37  <Ammler> no idea, why shouldn't?
15:10:19  <saLOUt> maybe there is a second packaging bug as there is always this error:
15:11:41  <saLOUt> i change the AI settings to start from the first day on and increse the playing speed...
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15:14:37  <saLOUt> Ammler: your openttd version cannot be found via webpin...
15:15:14  <Ammler> yep, webpin is broken quite some time already...
15:15:42  <Ammler>
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15:16:32  <Ammler> the only missing repo here is packman, which you have installed anyway.
15:17:49  <saLOUt> Ammler: download.opensuse is down...
15:19:58  <Ammler> oh, bad, "they" are aware of
15:22:38  <__ln__> dihedral: what do you say:
15:24:59  <__ln__> Rubidium: unless dihedral says something unexpected, all the comments indicate that #2585 has either got fixed on its own, or it is not-a-bug in openttd.
15:26:52  <avdg> what should be tested?
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15:46:27  <saLOUt> Ammler: what is the difference between openttd-data and openttd-data-opengfx?
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15:49:25  <planetmaker> probably included sound an music
15:51:50  <saLOUt> planetmaker: thought that would be already included in openttd-data
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15:52:16  <planetmaker> saLOUt: yes. But not in ...opengfx
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15:53:00  <planetmaker> and one might be quite content with just installing opengfx. A base graphics set is needed. Sound and music are purely optional
15:53:17  <planetmaker> (or the NoSound set is part of OpenTTD rather ;-) )
15:55:58  <saLOUt> admiralAI seems to be platform dependant. works with winXP and doesn't with linux.
15:56:20  <planetmaker> use the same version on both?
15:56:55  <saLOUt> sure
15:57:30  <saLOUt> dbg: [ai] [1] [S] Your script made an error: the index 'GetHeight' does not exist
15:59:31  <frosch123> GetHeight is ancient, you are using a very outdated version of admiral ai
15:59:52  <saLOUt> frosch123: good to know. I used the the ingame downloader.
16:00:02  <saLOUt> admiralAI seems to be v22
16:00:08  <frosch123> maybe it does not find the compatibility wrappers
16:00:11  <planetmaker> that sounds about current
16:01:07  <frosch123> ok, it got removed in 1.0, so agreed not that ancient :)
16:01:42  <frosch123> saLOUt: likely you are missing "compat_0.7.nut", resp ottd does not find it
16:02:38  <saLOUt> frosch123: where do this file have to be placed?
16:04:29  <saLOUt> frosch123: indeed, there is no compat_.. file in my /usr/share/openttd
16:04:44  <frosch123> for me it is in the ai folder next to the data folder, no idea where it goes in a regular installation
16:05:03  <Eddi|zuHause> saLOUt: another bug in the packaging?
16:05:22  <saLOUt> Eddi|zuHause: seems so. Also in the package of Ammler.
16:05:36  <saLOUt> what is in your ai folder?
16:05:40  <saLOUt> only this one file_
16:05:41  <saLOUt> ?
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16:06:25  <frosch123> if you installed 1.0 there should also be compat_1.0.nut, if you installed nightly then also compat_1.1.nut
16:06:56  <Eddi|zuHause> ./bin/ai/compat_1.0.nut ./bin/ai/compat_1.1.nut ./bin/ai/compat_0.7.nut
16:07:22  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: that is in your working copy :)
16:07:39  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, he asked what was in my folder :)
16:07:55  <frosch123> you are lacking the regression
16:08:09  <Eddi|zuHause> no, i just did not mention it :)
16:09:33  *** ecke [~ecke@] has quit [Quit: ecke]
16:09:48  <Eddi|zuHause> ... weather just turned drastically worse...
16:10:25  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: and I thought it was quiet because everyone was out in the sun :o
16:11:46  <frosch123> what are you doing in the sun without a notebook?
16:11:59  <andythenorth> holding the baby...
16:12:48  <Ammler> [18:05] <saLOUt> Eddi|zuHause: seems so. Also in the package of Ammler. <-- :-o
16:13:02  <Ammler> I do use make install, nothing fancy
16:15:42  <frosch123> Ammler: does your rpm install the ai compatibilitiy stuff?
16:15:43  <Ammler> AdmiralAI works here
16:16:29  <Ammler> frosch123: how would I need to install that locally?
16:16:38  <Ammler> something else than make install?
16:17:02  <George> Does CB 36 happen for a train when a wagon is attached? Or if it is coming out of depot?
16:17:24  <frosch123> that is different for every property
16:17:25  <frosch123> iirc
16:17:36  <Ammler> marcel@inspiron:/usr/share/openttd/ai> l *.nut
16:17:38  <Ammler> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7538 2010-04-01 11:07 compat_0.7.nut
16:17:39  <Ammler> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root  646 2010-04-01 11:07 compat_1.0.nut
16:18:13  <saLOUt> Ammler: for me there was no ai folder at all
16:18:28  <Ammler> then you didn't install from the coop repo
16:18:47  <saLOUt> i did a forced upgrade to your repo version
16:19:00  <Ammler> how does that work?
16:19:21  <Ammler> hmm, i might see the issue
16:19:39  <Ammler> you need also to install openttd-data from my repo
16:22:41  <saLOUt> Ammler: from yast:
16:23:33  <Ammler> yes, that isn't "my" data package
16:24:30  <Ammler> I splitted openttd in gui dedicated and data,
16:25:35  <Ammler> looks like I need to hurry with my bug report :-)
16:25:48  <George> frosch123: speed, TE, speed, power
16:26:27  <OwenS> "
16:26:27  <OwenS> WebGL is well defined, based on existing standards, and already has working implementations. So naturally Microsoft wont support it." Hehe
16:26:30  <saLOUt> Ammler: so which packages do i need for a fullfeatured opensource non-dev opentttd installation?
16:26:46  <saLOUt> OwenS: ^^
16:26:59  <Ammler> openttd and openttd-data
16:27:05  <Ammler> from "my" repo
16:27:39  <Ammler>
16:27:42  <saLOUt> Ammler: ok, maybe i did some mistakes...
16:28:00  <frosch123> George: those are most likely updated when attaching/removing/reordering wagons, when refitting, and when leaving the depot
16:28:07  <Ammler> yeah, I assume, you only updated openttd and forgot about openttd-data
16:28:22  <Ammler> I need to make that dependency more specific, it seems
16:28:42  <Ammler> wasn't aware that official maintainer used that too, as it is useless there
16:29:23  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123, George: what about changing railtype?
16:29:46  <frosch123> te and power most likely also when chaing railtype, speed maybe not
16:30:22  <saLOUt> maybe my mistake: wrong rpm .. versions i am going to see if everything works for now. after all the games rpms are really broken.
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16:35:00  <b_jonas> is the 1.0.0 release for real or an april fools?
16:35:54  <avdg> what do you think?
16:36:13  <Eddi|zuHause> yes.
16:36:36  <avdg> what yes, its an option question :)
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17:07:13  <SpComb> hmm... is there a known division-by-zero crash caused by road vehicles with a zero weight?
17:08:26  <SpComb> <-- this crash.png shows a vehicle weight of 0t, and the crash.dmp shows an "Integer division by zero" exception in GroundVehicle<T, Type>::GetAcceleration() where `mass` is 0
17:12:10  <SpComb> reproducible in vanilla r19596
17:12:18  <Terkhen> yes, but I thought I solved it long before committing RV acceleration
17:12:27  <Terkhen> thanks for the report, I'll take a look at it later
17:12:37  <SpComb> should I file something on
17:13:39  <Terkhen> that will ensure that I don't forget this again :)
17:14:44  *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@] has joined #openttd
17:14:56  <SpComb> urgh, I can't register my username because I need to merge it :(
17:15:04  * SpComb doesn't have a flyspray account yet
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17:15:43  <planetmaker> SpComb but you have some OpenTTD account, do you?
17:15:59  <SpComb> apparently I once made a bananas account
17:16:08  <SpComb> the merge page was kind enough to tell me
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17:16:39  * andythenorth new FISH.  not a big update, just some tanker sprites
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17:25:17  <b_jonas> oh argh
17:31:03  <SpComb> Terkhen:
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17:34:22  <Terkhen> SpComb: thanks
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17:42:52  <andythenorth> stupid farms
17:44:43  * andythenorth thinks a bit
17:45:38  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r19598 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files):
17:45:38  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:38  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 5 changes by josesun
17:45:38  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: portuguese - 2 changes by JayCity
17:45:38  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: turkish - 2 changes by canbu
17:45:40  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 8 changes by Madvin
17:47:49  * andythenorth ponders how to make grain farms locate near each other
17:49:47  <frosch123> check for fields?
17:50:09  <frosch123> but you might get trouble for the first farm :p
17:50:12  <Eddi|zuHause> make a randomised location callback that makes it increasingly unlikely to plant farms the higher the area is. then farms will cluster in the lower regions of the map
17:50:53  <frosch123> and the reverse for forrests?
17:51:05  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: yep, I think something like that
17:51:52  <andythenorth> I can check how many farms are already on the map
17:52:00  <andythenorth> that will sort the first one out :)
17:52:48  <andythenorth> currently I find farm transport really dull....which is a bit dull because I put lots of farms into FIRS :P
17:53:05  <Eddi|zuHause> well, if you strictly look for the first one on the map, then they make some continuous space, which might be suboptimal on large maps
17:53:32  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I can occasionally randomly branch and just build one 'anywhere'
17:53:42  <andythenorth> farms need low output, and they need to cluster.  Then RVs can move small amounts to a railhead or port.
17:53:45  <frosch123> what makes transporting other cargo less dull?
17:53:58  <andythenorth> it just looks stupid building a train line to every farm
17:54:07  <andythenorth> and equally stupid servicing one farm with twenty or more rvs
17:58:23  <b_jonas> 20? seriously?
17:58:51  <andythenorth> easy
18:01:08  <Terkhen> I have 43 rv for an arable farm + fruit plantation, and the destination is roughly 20 tiles away
18:01:29  <andythenorth> does it look silly? :)
18:02:28  <andythenorth> is it a good idea to force farms to locate *away* from town?  I think not
18:02:53  <Terkhen> only quite busy... the arable farm is producing 423+423 and the fruit plantation produces 387
18:02:56  <b_jonas> Terkhen: but how many farms and plantations are there?
18:03:13  <b_jonas> I mean 20 per farm would be a lot
18:03:17  <b_jonas> but 20 in a complex is okay
18:03:22  <Terkhen> a single arable farm and a single fruit plantation
18:03:52  <andythenorth> farm production is going to be lower in future FIRS :)
18:04:36  <andythenorth> frosch123: what are the possible range of values for the production multiplier?  I can't seem to find it documented :o
18:04:40  <b_jonas> nice
18:05:07  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think the default industries don't go below 4
18:05:13  <frosch123> hmm, i can think of several things that could be called production multiplier :s
18:05:29  <andythenorth> nvm, I found it straight after asking the question m(
18:06:02  <andythenorth> production rate is a value between 04h and 80h
18:07:11  <andythenorth> I assume the rate is multiplied by the values of prop 12 or 13 in industry action 0?
18:07:16  <andythenorth> that seems to be the case anyway
18:07:52  <andythenorth> or perhaps not
18:07:54  <frosch123> yes, but there is also a flag to multiply the production callback result by the rate
18:09:05  <andythenorth> interesting...where is that?
18:09:38  <andythenorth> my purpose here is just setting an upper limit on primary production
18:09:40  <frosch123> bit 14 of prop 1a
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18:12:54  * andythenorth does some maths to try and understand primary productin
18:12:57  <andythenorth> production /s
18:15:02  <andythenorth> @calc 21*6*80
18:15:02  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 10080
18:15:15  <andythenorth> so the coal mine has prop 12 as 21, which would imply max production of 10,080t when rate is 80
18:15:27  <andythenorth> But that leve is never reach
18:15:32  <andythenorth> ahem, bad typing
18:15:40  <andythenorth> that level is never reached
18:16:40  * andythenorth meh, read the source
18:17:38  <nighthawkcm> I wish industries you se3rvice dont suddenly close, and actually rise more as you service them well ...
18:18:04  <nighthawkcm> I think the time / year you are in also modifies the output, my coal mines produce way more since 2010
18:19:13  *** pazifi [] has joined #openttd
18:19:16  <pazifi> hi
18:20:39  <pazifi> i have a quastion to openttd. how can i sell or rid busses or trains?
18:20:59  <OwenS> pazifi, send them to depot then drag them  to the trash
18:21:12  <b_jonas> does it happen in openttd too that if you don't service oil refineries from oil wells then all of them close up before the first sea oil rig appears
18:21:30  <andythenorth> yep pretty much
18:22:09  <nighthawkcm> can happen, same with factories
18:22:13  <pazifi> OwenS: okay. where is the trash-symbol? but i don't see the trashsymbol :/
18:22:42  <OwenS> pazifi, on the right hand side of the depot window
18:23:00  <pazifi> orudge: with one car and a cross?
18:23:05  <andythenorth> after reading the source, I am not much the wiser about industry production
18:23:16  <pazifi> Àhm OwenS,.. sorry not orudge
18:23:30  <frosch123> andythenorth: a primary industry produces every 256 ticks (8 or 9 times a month). everytime it produces prop12 resp. prop13 * productionrate / 16 (with 16 being the default ratE)
18:23:34  <pazifi> OwenS: ahhh
18:23:40  <OwenS> pazifi, that sounds right. I may be thinking original graphics
18:23:44  <pazifi> OwenS: i must drag an drop
18:23:51  <andythenorth> frosch123: thanks.  make sense
18:23:57  <pazifi> OwenS: very thanks :D
18:24:20  * pazifi happy
18:25:03  <andythenorth> that would make perfect sense with maxing out coal mines at 1080t, which is what FIRS does IIRC
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18:41:34  <Eddi|zuHause> <b_jonas> does it happen in openttd too that if you don't service oil refineries from oil wells then all of them close up before the first sea oil rig appears <-- theoretically the last industry is supposed to be protected from closing
18:44:17  <b_jonas> Eddi|zuHause: good
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19:03:42  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
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19:30:51  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19599 /trunk/src/ground_vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#3751]: Vehicles with a weight of zero crashed the game when using realistic acceleration.
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19:40:09  <planetmaker> hm... my download content seems to be broken, the tars I get seem to be trunkated. Any pointers how to start digging into the issue?
19:40:20  <planetmaker> Deleting and re-downloading is not what's going to help
19:40:34  <planetmaker> it's reproducable for me, with a number of grfs / AI
19:41:04  <planetmaker> if I leave content download and re-enter it, the just downloaded stuff is also marked as not present (again)
19:41:54  <planetmaker> so OpenTTD regognizes that the previous download has not the correct md5sum, though immediately after download I have a green bullet next to the stuff
19:42:40  <planetmaker> And it seems I'm not the only one as I've talked to another person who has the same issue... might be yet another OSX...
19:42:54  <Eddi|zuHause> somewhere in the forum it said something about known bug...
19:42:59  <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't know any details
19:43:11  <planetmaker> it's not known in the sense of "is on FS yet"
19:43:22  <planetmaker> but I'd like to know more :-)
19:43:38  <planetmaker> And I posted in at least one of those threads.
19:43:45  <peter1138> i think i had it on windows, actually
19:44:05  <peter1138> maybe it's a mirror being odd?
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19:44:10  <planetmaker> peter1138: my testcase is the current NoCAB 2.0.4.
19:44:26  <planetmaker> I have no idea whether it's the mirror or not. How could I test?
19:44:37  <planetmaker> If I manually download the tar from the forum - all is fine.
19:44:58  <planetmaker> My mirror is the NL mirror afaik
19:45:21  <planetmaker> at least that's where I end up with
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19:47:45  <planetmaker> when I get the tar.gz from that mirror, gunzip it, all is fine, too
19:48:02  *** heffer [] has joined #openttd
19:48:05  <planetmaker> (doing that manually that is)
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19:53:51  <planetmaker> hm... can I teach OpenTTD to keep the tar.gz which it downloaded?
19:55:40  <frosch123> he, also happens for me
19:55:44  <frosch123> so, no osx
19:56:35  <planetmaker> *uff* ;-)
19:56:52  <frosch123> but, the tar arrives and looks all fine
19:57:00  <planetmaker> it's truncated
19:57:09  <planetmaker> and too small and wrong md5sum
19:57:13  <frosch123> how does the gui detemine whether a version is present?
19:57:28  <planetmaker> filename and for AIs the version
19:57:34  <planetmaker> I *think*
19:57:53  <planetmaker> hm...
19:58:37  <planetmaker> don't mind me
19:59:09  * SmatZ minds planetmaker
19:59:17  <planetmaker> :-)
20:00:04  <frosch123> it is not truncated for me
20:00:31  <frosch123> if i download the tar.gz from bananas webinterface and extract it, i get the same file
20:00:45  <planetmaker> oh?
20:00:50  <planetmaker> I don't
20:00:51  <frosch123> but the gui shows it as not installed
20:01:04  <planetmaker> it's missing 26kByte for NoCAB 2.0.4
20:01:09  *** Fast2 [] has joined #openttd
20:01:19  <frosch123> 430080 <- that is my filesize
20:01:43  <frosch123> 88912 <- resp. the compressed one
20:02:24  <planetmaker> that's the one which works for me, too. But the content_download one is only 409600 bytes
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20:03:33  <planetmaker> But I get the same thing with virtually every ai I tried to update
20:03:38  <frosch123> restarting ottd makes the gui show the correct thing
20:04:18  *** avdg [] has joined #openttd
20:04:23  <OwenS> Thats an odd number. Which for some reason reminds me of the case of a mail server failing to send mail to sites beyond a certain distance
20:04:55  <frosch123> ok, verified with trans ai. downloading work, but closing and reopening the content gui makes the "dot" vanish, while restarting ottd makes it permanent
20:05:01  <frosch123> so, different issue :)
20:05:10  <planetmaker> wait.
20:05:22  <planetmaker> is your trainsAI working?
20:05:41  <planetmaker> what you report wrt GUI is the same here. Additionally the file is really broken
20:06:02  <frosch123> hmm, trans or trains :s
20:06:16  <planetmaker> but different is: a re-start won't make the dots green for me.
20:06:25  <frosch123> trAIns-2.tar <- ok, ls -ltr says it downloaded that one :p
20:06:53  <planetmaker> trAIns
20:07:18  <frosch123> yeah, there seem to be two issues :) the files are not properly rescanned/marked. and for you they are not downloaded properly
20:08:03  <planetmaker> ok. Any ideas how I should tackle the wrong download and /or gunzip?
20:08:26  <planetmaker> I guess I should start with not gunzipping and looking whether the gzip is the same...
20:08:43  <frosch123> and trans has incomplete dependencies on bananas
20:08:48  <planetmaker> :-)
20:09:05  <planetmaker> I'll test with simpleAI. Least traffic
20:09:27  <frosch123> 			unlink(GetFullFilename(this->curInfo, false)); <- comment that line
20:10:03  <frosch123> hmm, wrong line, that one is for music :)
20:10:56  <frosch123> 		unlink(GetFullFilename(this->curInfo, true)); <- that one :)
20:11:23  <frosch123> network_content.cpp:480
20:12:19  <planetmaker> let's see...
20:13:05  <frosch123> oh, the library trans requires is not even on bananas?
20:13:26  <frosch123> how useful :p
20:13:43  <planetmaker> :-P
20:15:38  <frosch123> 9938 downloads, i wonder how many found the forum post for downloading the required libraries
20:15:48  <planetmaker> frosch123: thanks. The downloaded gzip is fine.
20:15:54  <planetmaker> So gunzip fails
20:16:21  <frosch123> that would be zlib
20:17:32  <planetmaker> yes
20:17:50  <frosch123> makes it sound like an osx issue again :p
20:18:12  <planetmaker> hm...
20:18:39  <planetmaker> maybe... maybe it's all the ****** new zlib version
20:19:22  <planetmaker> zlib                           @1.2.4          archivers/zlib
20:19:43  <planetmaker> it was working with my previous one. But I don't quite know wheter it also worked for some time with this one...
20:19:50  <planetmaker> hmpf... downgrade...
20:22:02  <frosch123> "If everything gonna right, there are a few days to go to Bananas." Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:26 pm  <- so there is some hope :)
20:22:26  <planetmaker> hu?
20:22:53  <frosch123> that is the last post in the topic about the library trans needs
20:23:03  <planetmaker> ah :-P
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20:33:47  <planetmaker> btw, it would be nice, if FS3750 could be considered. People compiling complain about that "bug" which is no bug...
20:34:01  <planetmaker> it's not OpenTTD's bug either, but...
20:35:57  *** Phazorx is now known as FS1063
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20:38:20  <planetmaker> hm... we can conclude that zlib 1.2.4 is broken on mac(ports)
20:38:32  <planetmaker> with zlib 1.3.3_3 I don't have issues
20:39:02  <planetmaker> which was the long-term version till they started to work again in late 2009 on the lib.
20:40:30  <planetmaker> and then I have the same issue as you, frosch123, with the availability-bullets
20:41:10  <frosch123> already debugging :p
20:41:38  <planetmaker> what zlib version do you use?
20:41:45  *** heffer [] has quit [Quit: heffer]
20:42:08  <planetmaker> I wonder whether it's really OSX-specific, or if most others just didn't update yet.
20:42:18  <frosch123> dbg: [misc] Found tar '/home/frosch/.openttd/content_download/ai//trAIns-2.tar' with 42 new files
20:42:20  <frosch123> dbg: [misc] Found tar '/home/frosch/.openttd/content_download/ai/trAIns-2.tar' with 0 new files
20:42:28  <frosch123> something looks wrong :p
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20:42:41  <planetmaker> hm... :-)
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20:44:16  * SpComb silently curses memcached for not accepting objects >1MB
20:44:47  <frosch123> planetmaker: 1.2.3-r1
20:44:59  <planetmaker> seems even older ;-)
20:45:09  <frosch123> gentoo stable
20:45:17  <frosch123> "stable"
20:45:18  <planetmaker> older than 2006 :-P
20:45:49  <planetmaker> Changes in (16 August 2006) <-- zlib
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20:56:15  <planetmaker> where would it need being noted that zlib 1.2.4 is incompatible with openttd?
20:58:07  <Ammler> known-bugs.txt?
20:58:26  *** aber [] has quit []
20:58:57  <planetmaker> ah... yes, possibly :-)
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21:21:31  <SmatZ> planetmaker: how "incompatible"?
21:22:00  <planetmaker> incompatible as in won't gunzip successfully --> broken unusable online content
21:22:28  <planetmaker> fs 3752
21:22:42  <planetmaker> oh, you probably read that ;-)
21:23:10  <planetmaker> nothing which I downloaded was usable, everything truncated
21:23:27  <SmatZ>  FS#3752 - Crash after using hovercrafts
21:23:28  <planetmaker> the downloaded .gz file was correct, though
21:23:28  <SmatZ> ?
21:23:36  *** aber [] has joined #openttd
21:23:39  <SmatZ> FS#3753 ;)
21:23:39  <planetmaker> oh. 3753 :-)
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21:24:07  <SmatZ> planetmaker: does the breakage apply to all files?
21:24:26  <planetmaker> yes. All I tested
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21:25:05  * SmatZ tests
21:25:08  <planetmaker> I tested 3 AI and 3 newgrf
21:25:32  <SmatZ> how do I know it's broken?
21:25:39  <planetmaker> truncated tar
21:25:47  <planetmaker> tar tf filename will tell you
21:25:53  <SmatZ> ok
21:28:00  <SmatZ> OpenGFX-0.2.3/changelog.txt
21:28:01  <SmatZ> tar: Unexpected EOF in archive
21:28:05  <planetmaker> yep
21:28:08  <planetmaker> the error
21:28:42  <planetmaker> you tested on the 2nd largest file available, though ;-)
21:28:57  <SmatZ> :)
21:29:03  <SmatZ> I knew that is a tar ;)
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21:29:14  <planetmaker> :-)
21:30:14  <planetmaker> you built with zlib 1.2.4, too, yes?
21:30:40  <SmatZ> yes
21:30:43  <SmatZ> fine with 1.2.3
21:31:08  *** Maarten- [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:33:06  <planetmaker> there are many different 1.2.3 ;-)
21:33:22  <planetmaker> 1.2.3 ...
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21:34:37  <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r19600 /trunk/src/network/network_content.cpp: -Fix (r18994): Presence of online content was not properly updated after download due to duplicate slashes in the path.
21:35:45  <planetmaker> SmatZ: I wonder whether to file a bug report with zlib...
21:36:08  <SmatZ> planetmaker: it can be bug in OTTD
21:36:11  *** Maarten [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:36:52  <planetmaker> then I'll refrain from doing so :-)
21:37:07  *** aber [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
21:37:08  <SmatZ> I think we will report it upstream if it is zlib bug ;)
21:39:15  <SmatZ> - Fix memory leaks in gzclose_r() and gzclose_w(), file leak in gz_open()
21:39:19  <SmatZ> at last!
21:39:21  <planetmaker> but looking at network_content.cpp:368-400 doesn't show much
21:39:45  <SmatZ> Rubidium (and a bit me) spent quit some time with that
21:40:20  <planetmaker> :-)
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21:46:51  <SmatZ> @calc 5373952 / 64
21:46:51  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: 83968
21:46:54  <SmatZ> @calc 5373952 / 65536
21:46:54  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: 82
21:46:56  <SmatZ> hmm
21:49:45  <planetmaker> hm... I'll continue tomorrow. Have a good night, dear Smatz :-) and all others, too
21:51:47  <SmatZ> good night, planetmaker :)
21:52:40  *** nighthawkcm [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
21:55:09  <SmatZ> @calc 5386240 - 5373952
21:55:09  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: 12288
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22:14:40  <SmatZ> that f**** zlib doesn't have any bugzilla nor a f***** mail list archive
22:14:45  <SmatZ> no wonder their software sucks
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22:17:10  <SmatZ> open mail list archive, that is
22:17:23  <SmatZ> WHYYY
22:18:10  <SpComb> You have been Euphemized
22:18:16  <SpComb> it's zlib from the 1970's or something?
22:18:19  <SmatZ> very
22:18:46  <SmatZ> the webpage looks like from the 1970's
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22:25:55  <frosch123> so, gzeof() is broken
22:26:28  <frosch123> 		if (read == 0 && gzeof(fin)) break; <- replacing the "while (!gzeof(fin))" with that fixes it for me
22:26:54  <frosch123> <- maybe related to that one
22:29:38  <SmatZ> frosch123: yeah, I read that
22:29:57  <SmatZ> but I wonder when that was implemented
22:37:04  <Rubidium> the debian maintainer of zlib kind-of doesn't trust zlib (and hasn't even bothered with 1.2.4 yet)
22:37:40  <SmatZ> good :)
22:39:05  <Rubidium> so any zlib >= is broken beyond use
22:40:12  <SmatZ> looks so, I don't have 1.2.3.x in my repo though
22:40:29  *** valhallasw [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:40:38  <SmatZ> but the zlib 1.2.3 I am using is from October 2010
22:40:40  <Rubidium> 1.2.3 for you might very well be or so
22:40:42  <SmatZ> so <
22:41:26  <Rubidium> - Note in zlib.h that gzerror() should be used to distinguish from EOF
22:41:37  <Rubidium> from zlib's changelog
22:41:44  <frosch123> i did not found that note though :p
22:41:51  <Rubidium>
22:42:01  <frosch123> in 1.2.4
22:43:00  <SmatZ> since when does that apply?
22:43:20  <frosch123> the description of gzeof says that it may return false, while eof has actually been reached (i.e. gzread will return 0), but that it gzread will not read anymore after gzeof returned true
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22:44:22  <SmatZ> frosch123: that's for the case when "we are exactly at the end of the file, but haven't read past the end yet"
22:45:30  <frosch123> yup
22:46:10  <SmatZ> gzeof() doesn't work according to documentation :)
22:46:41  <Terkhen> good night
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22:49:36  <Rubidium> SmatZ: there's a mailing list:
22:50:05  <SmatZ> Rubidium: yeah, I need to authorize first
22:50:14  <SmatZ> but my account hasn't been approved (yet)
22:50:24  <frosch123> <- sounds similar
22:51:08  <SmatZ> also, what a stupidity is it to have "subscribers-only" read-only mail archive
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22:51:26  <SmatZ> frosch123: nice :)
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23:20:39  <SekiSelu> Anyone got a second to help me with a GRF cargo question?
23:21:44  <Eddi|zuHause> ... you wasted so many seconds by now...
23:23:07  *** FS1063 [~pavelkoll@] has left #openttd []
23:24:25  * Yexo wonders if adding to the channel topic would be a good idea
23:25:21  <Yexo> and yes SekiSelu, part of it applies to you (as Eddi|zuHause already said)
23:25:26  <frosch123>     return state->mode == GZ_READ ? (state->eof && state->have == 0 && state->strm.avail_in == 0) : 0; <- changing gzlib.c:435 seems to fix it. let's see whether one can find some vcs
23:28:40  <SekiSelu> Calculator broke? :)
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23:35:10  * NCommander finds the AI is quite difficult to beat even 0on easy; its extremely agressive
23:35:24  *** SekiSelu [] has joined #openttd
23:39:47  <fjb> Which AI?
23:42:38  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:48:51  <Eddi|zuHause> people can never make up their minds... the AI is either too easy or too hard...
23:52:39  *** KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:54:27  * fjb still wonders which AI is that hard.
23:58:32  <SekiSelu> If it's too hard, turn on "Build while paused" and go to town :P
23:58:43  <SekiSelu> Then at least the playing field is level
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