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00:01:26 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@ip-33-137-106-77.eidsiva.net] has joined #openttd 00:18:06 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8062.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:26:02 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 00:34:16 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:34:19 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8d77b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:45:18 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:45:31 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 00:45:59 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 00:46:11 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn13-2-0-cust478.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48:10 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-62-86.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:49:12 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd 01:06:28 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:44 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-254-113-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon] 01:22:58 *** Xaroth_ [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has joined #openttd 01:23:52 *** fjb [~frank@p5485C00F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:24:48 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:30:01 *** Eoin [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 01:52:15 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 02:12:05 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:14:58 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:21:55 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:34:20 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 02:36:51 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:3c08:e01f:85ca:4ea0] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:04:57 *** piroko [~jeremy@pohl.ececs.uc.edu] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 03:05:08 *** piroko [~jeremy@pohl.ececs.uc.edu] has joined #openttd 04:36:40 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:38:20 *** lohmi [~wlohmann@p57BCE5AE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:38:38 * lohmi greets everyone. 04:41:42 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@nas46-98.york.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:42:51 <Terkhen> good morning 04:56:04 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75CC3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:56:23 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76F89.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:08:27 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 05:09:13 <andythenorth> morning 05:15:04 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe32dc00-253.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:38:37 * andythenorth ponders 05:39:15 * lohmi is busy looking for cool mines. 05:45:09 <andythenorth> cool mines? 05:46:25 <lohmi> oops, coal mines 05:47:00 <andythenorth> :) 05:49:59 <lohmi> they are not generated, neither are powerplants, and I am looking for some option how to enable them. (Using Version 1.0.1 on Ubuntu Lucid, when loading a saved game from V. 0.9xxx, the coal mines are available) 05:51:11 <Terkhen> available industries are changed by your GRF selection 05:51:57 <Terkhen> your current selection may not have coal mines, saved games store their own selection 05:56:02 <andythenorth> are they available in the 'fund industry' menu? 05:56:05 <andythenorth> and which climate? 05:59:37 <lohmi> I use the default climate. I have added some ECS* grfs, and have some industry, including the power plant. Hence, I only have to look for a grf containing coal 06:01:36 <Terkhen> lohmi: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ECSVectors 06:07:21 <andythenorth> newgrf debug tools == win again :D 06:07:38 <lohmi> I had the vectors. However: The order of them is essential 06:08:04 <lohmi> after moving up town vector and basic vector I have plenty of industry. 06:08:08 <lohmi> Thank you ! :-) 06:12:18 <Terkhen> you are welcome :) 06:12:31 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:18:03 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:18:09 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 06:25:17 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@ip-33-137-106-77.eidsiva.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:28:48 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 06:32:03 *** Wasila [~Wasila@81-178-69-164.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #openttd 06:37:36 *** Wasila [~Wasila@81-178-69-164.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:46:02 *** LA [~LA@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 06:47:46 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.157.155] has joined #openttd 07:06:05 *** heffer [~felix@ip-88-152-182-156.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 07:09:13 *** nfc_ [~nfc@cable-hvk-fe7ede00-156.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:10:55 *** nfc [~nfc@cable-hvk-fe7ede00-156.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:32:05 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 07:32:05 *** Guest1027 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:32:45 *** George is now known as Guest1086 07:44:50 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:46:38 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:02:26 *** Weeknie [~Maarten_S@84.27.14.168] has joined #openttd 08:16:14 *** lugo [~lugo@f055109175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 08:16:23 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:27:01 *** lugo [~lugo@f055109175.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:27:42 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 08:37:35 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76F89.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:38:12 *** LA [~LA@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 08:38:30 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c4cd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 08:48:35 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F04B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:50:51 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r19878 /trunk/src/group_gui.cpp: -Fix [FX#3851]: Default vehicle group texts were drawn one pixel too low (sbr). 08:58:15 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74D6A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:03:36 *** Weeknie [~Maarten_S@84.27.14.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:07:59 *** johnny5| [~johnny5@ip3e832835.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 09:08:02 <johnny5|> hi all 09:08:15 <planetmaker> moin 09:08:43 <johnny5|> i've been trying to find out how to erase an AI from my game... but can't seem to find it 09:08:45 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF97B0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 09:08:49 <johnny5|> is it even possible at all? 09:10:29 <Rubidium> in-game console, stop_ai 09:11:04 <johnny5|> that looks like what i need indeed 09:11:26 <johnny5|> and how do i get the company id? "companies" is only available on lan games 09:11:52 <Rubidium> counting in the ai debug window? 09:11:53 <johnny5|> list_ai gives the available ai's, not the active ai in my game 09:12:40 <johnny5|> ah :) 09:12:43 <johnny5|> thanx :) 09:29:45 *** fjb [~frank@p5485B68A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:33:57 <fjb> Moin 09:41:23 <andythenorth> Terkhen: dunno if you're planning any FIRS games, but there is now a Lumber Yard in the repo 09:41:39 <andythenorth> I don't have time to start a test game yet :o 09:43:01 *** llugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8d592.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:43:07 <Terkhen> I plan to, once I have time again :P 09:43:28 <Terkhen> I think it will change how I play FIRS 09:43:42 *** Weeknie [~Maarten_S@84.27.14.168] has joined #openttd 09:44:42 <andythenorth> I think the same :) 09:48:06 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c4cd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:48:47 *** Weeknie [~Maarten_S@84.27.14.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:51:03 *** LA [~LA@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 09:52:06 <planetmaker> andythenorth: what does the LumberYard introduce / do? 09:52:06 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DB5C5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:52:13 *** heffer [~felix@ip-88-152-182-156.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: heffer] 09:52:24 <andythenorth> Produces ENSP from Lumber and/or Chemicals 09:52:49 <andythenorth> Another source of ENSP was needed :) 09:53:05 <planetmaker> oki :-) 10:00:22 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn13-2-0-cust478.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:00:44 *** johnny5| [~johnny5@ip3e832835.speed.planet.nl] has left #openttd [*zwaai*] 10:01:39 *** einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 10:08:42 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:15:51 *** lohmi [~wlohmann@p57BCE5AE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: shopping] 10:19:18 *** Weeknie [~Maarten_S@cp1042784-a.dbsch1.nb.home.nl] has joined #openttd 10:22:24 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.10.83.181] has joined #openttd 10:26:03 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff00b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:27:06 *** Weeknie1 [~Maarten_S@cp1042784-a.dbsch1.nb.home.nl] has joined #openttd 10:33:20 *** Weeknie [~Maarten_S@cp1042784-a.dbsch1.nb.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:35:13 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:36:19 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:40:17 *** Xaroth_ is now known as Xaroth 10:43:33 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-112-65.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:45:52 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-142-132.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 10:45:55 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 10:51:27 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:51:29 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 10:54:03 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC6991.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:59:59 *** heffer [~felix@ip-88-152-182-156.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 11:07:48 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:11:29 *** elmz_ [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 11:18:33 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:19:41 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba8447.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:27:23 *** TB is now known as TrueBrain 11:28:05 * andythenorth wonders if he's missing the obvious easy way to animate industry graphics 11:29:05 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on the kind of animation 11:30:02 <andythenorth> in this case...moving an overhead crane 11:30:14 <andythenorth> only needs to change the x-y offsets of the crane sprite 11:30:25 <andythenorth> but that is a *lot* of work 11:30:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose you should look at the ISR stations, they have plenty of animation 11:31:23 <Eddi|zuHause> can't you use a macro that replicates the real sprite with different offsets, and a matching action 2? 11:32:34 <Eddi|zuHause> little pnfo code => lots of nfo code 11:34:14 <andythenorth> probably. I'd need to learn cpp macros :) 11:34:39 <Eddi|zuHause> those are the easiest part of programming ;) 11:34:46 <Eddi|zuHause> simple text replacement 11:36:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess the tricky part here is constant folding, or does grfcodec somehow support expressions in real sprites? 11:36:44 * Sacro rights NFO in lisp 11:37:15 *** Spoons_ is now known as FauxFaux 11:37:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean resolve "3+5" to "8" 11:40:12 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:43:40 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-72-20.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 11:48:12 *** Weeknie [~Maarten_S@cp1042784-a.dbsch1.nb.home.nl] has joined #openttd 11:49:05 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:50:45 *** lewymati [~lewymati@89.230.159.206] has joined #openttd 11:50:57 *** LA [~LA@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 11:51:43 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 11:52:43 *** Weeknie1 [~Maarten_S@cp1042784-a.dbsch1.nb.home.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:54:08 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r19879 /trunk/src/engine.cpp: -Codechange: Also hide invalid engines from purchase lists. 11:56:17 <Ammler> (ECS industries are animated too) 11:58:41 *** elmz_ [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:03:25 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 12:11:06 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 12:15:06 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: unfortunately NFO does not 12:15:08 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:15:15 <planetmaker> Might be a clear case to rather use NML :-P 12:15:47 <peter1138> NML? 12:16:43 <planetmaker> the new grf language :-) 12:17:03 <planetmaker> it once was meant to mean NFO meta language 12:17:16 <planetmaker> But actually it meanwhile writes the grfs directly. Even with png as graphics input 12:17:51 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml 12:19:43 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfxplus/repository/entry/sprites/ogfxplus.nml <-- some source code for a simple newgrf 12:19:50 <planetmaker> but all actions are supported 12:20:00 <planetmaker> including varaction2 12:20:03 <planetmaker> and action6 12:23:13 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttd.org/225826 <-- varaction2 mania 12:26:00 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r19880 /trunk/ (bin/ai/regression/regression.txt src/ai/api/ai_engine.cpp): -Fix: [NoAI] AIEngine::IsValidEngine() and AIEngine::IsBuildable() returned false positives. Especially wagons of unavailable railtypes were reported available. 12:27:28 <peter1138> hmm, you still have to supply the 'cargo id' of varaction2s? 12:27:51 <peter1138> or are you using C2/A2 just because? 12:27:54 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 12:28:20 <peter1138> ah, just because, it looks like 12:28:27 <peter1138> using nicer names further down 12:28:36 <planetmaker> yep. It just has to be unique 12:29:34 <peter1138> can you do a spriteset with discrete png files? 12:29:52 <planetmaker> _that_ I think might not work 12:30:01 <planetmaker> I'm not sure though 12:30:18 <planetmaker> nor do I actually think that it's a big limitation :-) 12:30:29 <planetmaker> And mind that it's still somewhere alpha stage :-) 12:31:04 <planetmaker> I wouldn't really split the 8 views of a single vehicle into different files 12:31:44 *** elmz_ [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 12:31:48 <planetmaker> but I might want to do that with the openttd gui graphics. 12:32:20 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:33:23 *** fjb [~frank@p5485B68A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38:24 <Alberth> planetmaker: you happen to have an example of a town names nml source? 12:39:22 <planetmaker> Alberth: I don't. I'm not sure it exists anywhere 12:39:58 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC6991.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!] 12:43:30 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/p.pdf <-- yesterday I started making some railroad diagrams, this is not complete, not checked, etc 12:44:07 <Alberth> unfortunately, the parser rules prvoide not much clues what is being parsed with the rules 12:44:14 <Alberth> *many 12:45:05 <SmatZ> nice, do you use some special tool for drawing it? 12:45:13 <Alberth> LaTeX :) 12:45:27 <SmatZ> :-) 12:46:03 <Alberth> http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/support/rail/ 12:46:06 <SmatZ> I didn't know this is possible in LaTeX :) 12:46:16 <Alberth> they cheat a bit 12:46:33 <Mazur> Lots of things re possible in LaTeX. 12:47:16 <Alberth> although I did have a discussion with the local LaTeX guru in our group about making these things possible in a LaTeX package without further tools 12:48:49 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-142-132.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:48:53 <Alberth> unfortunately, that falls in the 'friday afternoon' projects department, where little progress is made 12:50:19 <planetmaker> very nice :-) 12:51:00 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-98-149.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 12:51:03 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 12:51:10 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF97B0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:56:21 *** Bidjo [~jvl88@cp1206577-a.ndwrt1.lb.home.nl] has joined #openttd 13:07:03 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-78-99.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 13:09:41 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:48ee:52fa:179a:5171] has joined #openttd 13:09:44 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:12:52 <andythenorth> yorick: write something in python to output sprite recolor tables compatible with 2CC 13:12:54 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 13:13:40 <andythenorth> with input as some kind of array of pairs mapping old:new values 13:15:28 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:15:39 <yorick> andythenorth: sorted? 13:17:05 <yorick> that would be print "00 * 257 00 " + ' '.join([hex(i)[2:] for i in arr.values()]) I think 13:18:10 <andythenorth> looks effective 13:18:20 <andythenorth> now it just has to be made to work for all combinations of 1CC and 2CC :P 13:18:31 <yorick> but I'm not sure if arr.values would be any sorted 13:18:55 *** elmz_ [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:32:13 <Alberth> just throw a sorted() around it :) 13:32:46 <Alberth> also the [ and ] are not needed with more recent pythons 13:33:00 *** elmz_ [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 13:34:39 *** lewymati [~lewymati@89.230.159.206] has quit [] 13:36:17 <yorick> Alberth: it's a bit clearer 13:37:45 <Alberth> '%x' % i does not print the '0x' 13:38:13 <Alberth> but there are still too many parentheses 13:39:03 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:46:13 <andythenorth> well it would be a nice micro-project to have on the devzone 13:46:13 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:46:17 <andythenorth> or as a web service.... 13:51:27 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:52:04 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 13:53:11 <Alberth> a custom solution is about 10 lines of python that you use one time, not sure it is even worth to save such code. 13:53:24 <Alberth> extending nml would be more logical :p 13:57:54 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe32dc00-253.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:59:08 *** elmz_ [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:02:16 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:06:57 <frosch123> what do you want to print recolour tables for? 14:13:14 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19881 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#3827]: pay for the rail/road when constructing tunnels and bridges 14:22:12 <andythenorth> frosch123: I'm bored of drawing load sprites for dump trucks etc 14:22:54 <frosch123> so you want to recolour cargos and 2cc at the same time 14:23:12 <andythenorth> well I want to keep the existing 2CC support 14:23:16 <frosch123> by supplying 256 recolour sprites per cargo 14:23:26 <andythenorth> yup 14:23:33 <andythenorth> which I do *not* want to write by hand :P 14:23:51 <frosch123> didn't uwe post some tool for that? 14:24:44 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-213-34-232-56.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #openttd 14:25:00 <frosch123> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=46695 <- never took a look at ti 14:25:26 <andythenorth> I started trying to understand it a few months ago, but didn't win 14:25:51 <andythenorth> I only mentioned it today because yorick was looking for a project :) 14:26:04 <planetmaker> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW405x_18_0 <-- hehe. Fail in lobbyism (German) 14:26:16 * andythenorth goes out for a bit 14:29:02 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... something's wrong with the audio 14:30:45 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:31:11 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 14:34:45 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-213-34-232-56.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:35:34 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-213-34-232-56.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #openttd 15:00:24 *** _Ben_ [~Ben@81-5-142-101.dsl.eclipse.net.uk] has joined #openttd 15:02:14 <_Ben_> Would someone be able to give me a pointer to the place where it's possible to see a set of sprites with image-number-replacement in a table layout...think it was on openttdcoop...can't find it 15:03:34 <yorick> _Ben_: 0x8b94d68 15:04:20 <_Ben_> yes 15:04:32 <yorick> that's a pointer :) 15:04:36 <yorick> but really, no idea 15:06:02 <_Ben_> er... 15:06:05 * SirSquidness mutters something about pointers under his breath 15:07:25 <_Ben_> anyway, anything where where I could see the exsisting openGFX sprites without having to extract them would be handy if theres such a place. Or just a written list even...just need to know some numbers 15:08:09 <Rubidium> _Ben_: have you tried looking at the "obvious" places already? 15:08:21 <Rubidium> like e.g. the OpenGFX project page? 15:08:37 <yorick> openttd wiki? 15:09:24 <_Ben_> rubidium: obviously I've looked for the obvious, rather than scenic pictures of north west cumbria for example, but what is obvious to me is not what is obvious to someone more in the know 15:10:12 <Rubidium> anyhow, I've given you a pointer to the place that has a pointer to the place you're looking for :) 15:10:43 <_Ben_> yeah, thanks, I am looking! 15:10:53 <planetmaker> let me spoil it: the project page http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx 15:10:55 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd 15:12:35 <_Ben_> ah ok: been there, again not exactly sure what it is I need 15:13:11 <Ammler> maybe http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx/repository/show/sprites 15:13:24 <planetmaker> reading the list of links might give pointers 15:13:31 <planetmaker> but what you need - how can we know? 15:14:02 <_Ben_> yeah I have, I thought it was the script which takes me to sprite objectives, but that seems to list the none complete sprite, rather than just a group of sprites 15:14:16 <_Ben_> I'm just looking at thw water/canal sprites in general at the sec 15:14:20 <planetmaker> there are no non-complete sprites 15:14:47 <Rubidium> _Ben_: "Script for browsing sprites"? 15:15:00 <planetmaker> only sprites in need of updating ;-) 15:15:03 <frosch123> maybe the ingame spritealigner? 15:15:43 * Ammler hopes, _Ben_ does not again try to get sprite number from extra grf ;-) 15:15:51 <planetmaker> hehe 15:16:06 <_Ben_> the possibilities are endless 15:16:38 <Ammler> with the upcoming frosch123 patch, that will again change :-P 15:16:53 <planetmaker> :-) 15:17:08 <planetmaker> good point. I wanted to save that one 15:17:47 <_Ben_> Rubidium: speaks for itself really 15:18:20 <_Ben_> so, let's not talk about what doesn't exsist, ...let's make this simple: canal sprites - where are they? 15:18:33 <frosch123> action5 15:18:46 <frosch123> that is in the extra grf 15:18:53 <planetmaker> ^ 15:19:59 <Jupix> i love the way one of if not the most important 32bit artist comes here asking for help and gets the most confusing, useless and rude answers i've seen since.. well, the last time he asked anything 15:20:14 <planetmaker> _Ben_: in general finding things is as difficult as to search for that on the sprite browser page for what you're looking for... 15:20:32 <planetmaker> at least in the case of canal sprites 15:21:03 <Ammler> Jupix: the only rude person are you right now, imo. 15:21:36 *** Yexo [~Yexo@ip51cca4b5.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 15:21:36 <Jupix> just sayin'. 15:21:53 <Yexo> hello 15:22:06 <frosch123> something is wrong with my calendar 15:22:13 <frosch123> hello yexo :) 15:22:35 <Eddi|zuHause> on my calendar it's saturday, 22 may 15:22:35 <Ammler> Jupix: help us improving the answers instead of commenting the people itself... 15:23:27 <Weeknie> Perhaps anyone who wasn't here yesteday could help me with http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=48543 ? 15:23:29 <planetmaker> Jupix: then tell me what was rude? 15:23:49 <glx> anyway there's no fixed sprite number for action 5 15:23:52 <Jupix> here's my suggestion: answer his question without using technical terms, or if using such, explaining them there and then, and not link to webdocuments where he has to use his valuable "artisty time" reading up on the grf/newgrf/extras-project/any other spec 15:24:07 <glx> it all depends on the grf implementing the action 5 15:24:10 <planetmaker> the link is right on the projects main page. The feature he looks for is right found by looking for it. And he was even given the links and file to look for 15:24:11 <Ammler> _Ben_: use the 32bpp-extra grf please (1000 times told) 15:24:48 <planetmaker> ah, Jupix, so you value his time more than frosch's Rubidium's or mine? Interesting 15:24:53 <planetmaker> Go figure 15:25:33 <planetmaker> I might see time preciousnes differently, especially if my own is involved 15:25:40 <_Ben_> Ammler: 3 times by my count, but one day your statement will become true I'm sure. 15:25:51 <Ammler> I hope so :-) 15:25:53 *** dlr365 [~dlr365@S0106e0cb4e33c7ad.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 15:25:56 <Yexo> Weeknie: I've had the same problems as you (grfcodec not recognizing commandline options), but IIRC it was not only grfcodec but all programs that didn't read commandline args anymore. Also I don't remember what the solution was unfortunatly 15:26:00 <_Ben_> Ammler: and I'm already looking...I have that file in front of me already......andddd.... 15:26:12 <Weeknie> Hmm, well, that's not the case here 15:26:17 <Ammler> that file could indeed be a bit better readable 15:26:21 <Weeknie> Even grfmerge and diff seem to work right (atleast one of the 2) 15:26:23 <tycoondemon> how do I let openttd save the onfo in somewhere els then %USER%/OpenTDD ? 15:26:29 <tycoondemon> onfo=info 15:27:24 <Jupix> planetmaker: it's not my business to assign to value to anyone's time, just saying that he needs to spend his making great graphics instead of figuring out how the technical side works in order to get graphics done 15:27:25 <frosch123> see readme, section 4 or 5 15:27:51 <planetmaker> Jupix: we all have to look up the things, too. So if we tell him where to find it, it's quite obvious. 15:28:05 <Ammler> _Ben_: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/32bpp-extra/repository/entry/grf-def/32bpp_extra.pnfo#L1617 15:28:20 <_Ben_> planetmaker: it really doesn't matter who is contributing what, making things as easy as possible for anyone is gernally considered good manners. It's just about working out what a suitable amount of time is...yes some people should maybe be sent straight off to google, but clearly I didn't just roll out of bed and start typing, if I come here...I am at a point at which the search engine and or other people I've spoken to havn't helped. 15:28:21 <Ammler> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action5 <-- tells you which Type 15:28:49 <planetmaker> _Ben_: nor were you pointed to google. 15:28:58 <Jupix> you obviously know how the thing works, so you're more efficient at finding the answer than he is ... therefore it makes sense for you to do it, instead of him ... if you don't want to do that, that's fine 15:29:16 <_Ben_> meh, not worth debating, I'm appreiating yout help Ammler...checking it out 15:29:17 <Ammler> but the source of 32bpp-extra is bad, the numbers don't match 15:29:29 <planetmaker> quite not worth it 15:29:31 <planetmaker> :x 15:29:53 <Weeknie> yexo, does your grfcodec now work on the windows commandline or on the msys one? 15:30:11 <Yexo> I mostly use the cygwin bash shell 15:30:19 <Yexo> I haven't tested it on the windows commandline 15:30:28 <Weeknie> So bash shell under windows, ok;) 15:30:30 <Yexo> but it also works on the msys shell 15:31:02 <Weeknie> You really don't remember your fix?:( 15:31:05 <Yexo> I've never tried to compile it myself though 15:31:07 <Yexo> no, sorry :( 15:31:14 <Weeknie> Damnit 15:31:32 <Weeknie> Well I'm thinking it's just grfcodec not understanding the msys command line arguments 15:31:50 <yorick> grfcodec used to work on msys for me 15:32:01 <yorick> compiled my own 15:32:28 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:32:29 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 15:32:35 <Weeknie> And I presume you didn't get the mkdir errors yorick? 15:33:44 <yorick> I fixed the mkdir errors 15:34:21 <Weeknie> Ok what the hell 15:34:28 <Weeknie> I just pasted the exe again 15:34:29 <yorick> (just enable the macro on top of the file :P) 15:34:31 <Weeknie> And now it's suddenly 15:34:33 <Weeknie> working:S 15:34:56 <Weeknie> Ok, let's test it out first 15:35:25 <Weeknie> omg 15:35:26 <Weeknie> It worked 15:36:04 <Yexo> ^^ that might be the reason why I don't remember how I fixed it :p 15:36:30 <Weeknie> Wow, that was an easy fix 15:36:37 <Weeknie> I put it in the minGW bin folder, instead of the msys one 15:36:54 <Weeknie> One other thing to test, the path var 15:37:02 <yorick> I put it in the local folder 15:37:35 <Weeknie> Nah, it's not the path var 15:37:43 <Weeknie> Both bin's are in there (quite obviously but well) 15:37:53 <planetmaker> Weeknie: http://paste.openttd.org/225828 <-- that once helped me with that or similar error 15:39:43 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-203-160.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:41:03 <Weeknie> ooh I see 15:41:08 <Weeknie> - is a comment then? 15:41:35 <Weeknie> Didn't really notice that, I thought then thing was already executing that, and thus was wondering why the rule wasn't applied 15:41:45 <Weeknie> thanks planetmaker, seems you can help people after all:P 15:41:54 <Weeknie> (sorry, couldn't help myself) 15:42:05 <Eddi|zuHause> all people get the help they deserve :p 15:42:29 <Eddi|zuHause> only occasionally some people get way more help than they deserve 15:43:05 <Weeknie> WHOHOOO dutchtrainset decoded 15:43:09 <Weeknie> I'm so happeh 15:43:22 <Ammler> _Ben_: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/32bpp-extra/nightlies/r34/32bpp_extra.nfo 15:43:40 <Ammler> search for "05 08" (Action5 Type 8) 15:44:43 <Weeknie> Wow, now I can finally get on with learning NFO lol 15:46:00 *** dlr365 [~dlr365@S0106e0cb4e33c7ad.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:42 <planetmaker> Weeknie: I can hardly point you to "search my frigging harddisc" 15:47:44 <_Ben_> Ammler: thanks; am I correct in assumeing the sprite 'name' I need to use is that number at the start of each line? in this case 1174? 15:48:01 <Ammler> yes, exactly 15:48:11 <Weeknie> planetmaker, I said I was joking, no need to go into it, though sorry 15:48:29 <Ammler> this is a correct numbered nfo and 32bpp-extra is supposed not to change the numbers anymore 15:48:40 <Weeknie> grfcodec automagically renumbers the lines of the nfo file if you have renum installed right? 15:48:44 <Ammler> openttdw.grf and opengfx does that 15:48:54 <glx> Weeknie: renum is for the other way :) 15:48:55 <planetmaker> Weeknie: no. (nfo)renum does that 15:49:08 <planetmaker> it's a different programme. It also needs to be called separately 15:49:14 <Weeknie> Hmm ok 15:49:26 <glx> write nfo, run renum, run grfcodec 15:49:34 <Weeknie> Ooh wait, right, that was the makefile that came with the ogfx+ package 15:49:37 <planetmaker> you might want to get one of those projects from the devzone. 15:49:47 <planetmaker> though, granted, it's a bit hidden in the Makefiles :-P 15:50:04 <planetmaker> Weeknie: yeah. But ogfx+ doesn't need either anymore :-) 15:50:12 <planetmaker> but the Makefile can handle both, nfo and nml 15:50:15 <Weeknie> It uses nml2nfo now 15:50:17 <Weeknie> Yeah well 15:50:26 <Weeknie> Not really planning on using the makefile 15:50:28 <planetmaker> if the proper setting in Makefile.config is set 15:50:46 <planetmaker> like PROJECT_TYPE = NML or so 15:50:54 <Weeknie> Yup k, thanks 15:51:19 <planetmaker> for starting to understand things, not using the Makefile might be a good idea. 15:51:25 <planetmaker> You'll later value it the more :-P 15:51:38 <Ammler> _Ben_: and this isn't a OpenGFX issue, it is a extra grf issue, you need to do that for both sets only once 15:51:47 <Weeknie> just running make to make the grf does help yeah 15:51:53 <Weeknie> Instead of typing the complete line every time 15:51:58 <Ammler> no need to crawl openttdw.grf 15:52:01 <Weeknie> Or even multiple lines, with renum and such 15:52:10 <planetmaker> Weeknie: especially also packing documentation and stuff 15:52:26 <planetmaker> or copying it to the grf folder so that I can test it :-9 15:52:28 <Weeknie> What, documentation, who cares about that?:P 15:52:30 *** elmz_ [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 15:52:43 <planetmaker> Weeknie: then at least license ;-) 15:52:48 <Weeknie> Hmm 15:52:50 <planetmaker> credit whom credit is due 15:52:53 <Weeknie> I guess I should care about that 15:53:02 <Alberth> What Python version is assumed with NML ? 15:53:15 <planetmaker> Alberth: 2.5- <3.0 15:53:17 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-150-227.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 15:53:37 <planetmaker> IIRC 2.4 might work, but has troubles with *something* 15:53:42 <planetmaker> I think ternary expressions 15:53:49 *** dlr365 [~dlr365@S0106e0cb4e33c7ad.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 15:53:50 <planetmaker> or alike 15:54:04 <Yexo> 2.4 doesn't work as it has no ternary operator 15:54:14 <Yexo> a = 3 if x else 4 <- that doesn't work in python 2.4 15:54:30 <Alberth> hmm, ply does not work although it is installed in a 2.5 dir 15:54:50 <planetmaker> what OS? 15:55:46 <Yexo> Alberth: what error message do you get? 15:56:11 <Yexo> do you have pil (=python-imaging) and ply (python-ply) installed? 15:56:14 <Alberth> import of ply.lex fails, but it is an error in my setup 15:56:49 <Yexo> http://www.dabeaz.com/ply/ <- download location in case your distro doesn't have it 15:58:06 <Alberth> I know 15:58:36 <Yexo> of course you do, sorry ;) 15:58:49 <Yexo> (I did read multiple mails from you on the ply mailing list) 15:59:30 *** Wasila [~Wasila@81-178-69-164.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #openttd 15:59:31 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:00:18 <planetmaker> hehe 16:00:34 <Weeknie> Those numbers in the pcx file get inserted by grfdocec I presume? 16:00:43 <Weeknie> (numbering each sprite that's in there) 16:01:04 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 16:01:24 <Eddi|zuHause> the numbers are also ignored on recoding 16:01:31 *** Wasila [~Wasila@81-178-69-164.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [] 16:01:42 <planetmaker> Alberth: the GUI guide is a good thing. So do you think I should change new game things also to purple? 16:01:55 <planetmaker> instead of the brown as is now? 16:02:06 <planetmaker> I think it looks quite nice with brown :-) 16:02:18 <planetmaker> let's see for comparison... 16:02:26 <Weeknie> Eddi|zuHause, I guess that's why you have to specify each sprite's coordinates:P 16:03:00 <Alberth> I was thinking to make a colour for game control, options & settings are not exactly the same imho, but where exactly the border is, is not clear 16:03:11 <Alberth> (like brown for game control) 16:03:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Weeknie: yes, only the stuff in the .nfo counts... you can get sprites from multiple files, or multiply a sprite from the same coordinates 16:03:37 <planetmaker> Alberth: the difference between game control (what's that?) and adv. options is rather marginal, if at all 16:03:57 <planetmaker> what are newgrfs? Options? Game control? 16:04:00 <planetmaker> settings? 16:04:31 <planetmaker> The only thing really which IMHO can be distinguished is options and settings 16:04:50 <planetmaker> as in options = user things not influencing the game (not saved in the map) and settings (= saved within map) 16:05:10 <planetmaker> as such newgrf+AI+adv. settings+newgame = settings 16:05:12 <Yexo> planetmaker: and where do gui settings/options belong? 16:05:23 <Alberth> hmm, game control is too subtle perhaps 16:05:23 <Ammler> maybe "network" settings 16:05:28 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d199096.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 16:05:32 <planetmaker> and most of current options (base sets,...) are options 16:05:52 <planetmaker> Yexo: there where you currently select base sets, language and alike 16:06:04 <planetmaker> IMHO they should be moved away from the adv. settings 16:06:25 <planetmaker> It could as well be a multi-tab window 16:07:23 <planetmaker> Alberth: "networking"... what would that comprise in your eyes? 16:07:41 <Alberth> Yexo: how to run tests for nml ? 16:07:51 <Alberth> planetmaker: MP stuff 16:07:52 <Yexo> there are no tests currently :) 16:08:12 <Alberth> ok, so I can break things without any one noticing :) 16:08:22 <planetmaker> hm, yes, I'd put that in options, too, though. But yeah... might make sense 16:08:40 <Alberth> planetmaker: not everything is an option :p 16:08:41 <planetmaker> so there's three things: map, networking, and (local) preferences 16:08:55 <planetmaker> that's why I'd call it preferences ;-) 16:09:12 <Alberth> planetmaker: you have a working nml source? 16:09:36 <planetmaker> Alberth: ogfxplus 16:09:49 <planetmaker> Or you mean a NML checkout? 16:09:53 <planetmaker> Well, I should have both 16:10:21 <Alberth> a checkout is managable :) 16:11:38 <planetmaker> Mind that ogfxplus is so far quite simple newgrf only 16:11:48 <planetmaker> Only few vehicles and a bit of livery override 16:11:53 <planetmaker> nothing fancy 16:12:00 *** dlr365 [~dlr365@S0106e0cb4e33c7ad.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:25 <planetmaker> hg clone http://dev.openttdcoop.org/hg-repos/ogfxplus 16:12:29 <Weeknie> OH wow 16:12:30 <Weeknie> Planetmaker 16:12:31 <Weeknie> Really 16:12:34 <Weeknie> RIGHT on time:P 16:12:50 <planetmaker> :-) 16:12:51 <Weeknie> Was just going to ask for the link because my http seems to be failing 16:13:03 <Ammler> planetmaker: forces me to add a new rewrite? 16:13:14 <planetmaker> hm, did I get it wrong? :-) 16:13:23 <Ammler> how many different urls do you like to use to get the source? 16:13:26 <planetmaker> yes 16:13:31 <Ammler> :-D 16:13:32 <planetmaker> hm. 42? 16:13:35 <_Ben_> Ammler: yeah, thanks for that, sorry I vanished. I've just converted the grf so I have a .png..that took a mission cause I havn't done that for about 6 years. I've just renamed a sprite according to that list and it has worked...is that fluke and will this change, or...so long as I have the newgrf enabled will it always work with those numbers? 16:13:41 <planetmaker> http://mz.openttdcoop.org/hg/ogfxplus 16:13:47 <planetmaker> ^ hg checkout link 16:14:00 <planetmaker> Ammler: actually I'd like to have dev there instead of mz 16:14:05 <planetmaker> sounds way more logical. Or hg 16:14:11 <Ammler> that is possible 16:14:17 <Ammler> already :-P 16:14:18 <planetmaker> and then without the hg in front of the project name 16:14:21 <planetmaker> :-P 16:14:22 <Weeknie> Hmm, planetmaker, planetmaker, do you have the svn url please? 16:14:28 <planetmaker> Weeknie: no 16:14:32 <planetmaker> it's not a svn repository 16:14:49 <Weeknie> Oh ok, then I"ll use hg 16:15:16 <Ammler> http://hg.openttdcoop.org-repos/ogfxplus <-- nice rewrite result :-) 16:15:30 <planetmaker> err... 16:15:36 <planetmaker> not really, or? 16:15:44 <planetmaker> it won't even resolve 16:16:18 <Ammler> yeah, there is no org-repos toplevel domain 16:17:40 <Ammler> _Ben_: it worked because you mainly replaced original base set graphcis (trg*.grf) 16:17:57 <Ammler> those will never change 16:18:20 <_Ben_> Ammler: I just replaced 1 sprite, it was a ''''''lock''''' sprite 16:18:35 <Ammler> but the openttdw.grf and ogfxe-extra.grf does change from time to time with new features 16:18:45 <Alberth> planetmaker: http://paste.openttd.org/225830 you broke nml :p 16:18:52 <planetmaker> I did? 16:19:22 <planetmaker> I just compile ogfxplus and it works. 16:19:25 <planetmaker> Try a make remake 16:19:50 <Ammler> _Ben_: yes, openttdw.grf doesn't change that often, and if you were lucky, the sprite you replaced is somewhere in front of the grf 16:20:20 <Ammler> so chances are high, they don't change also if something in the end of the grf changes... 16:20:52 <Ammler> opengfx-extra changes a lot also without new features, simply because it is still in development 16:21:45 <Ammler> with 32bpp-extra you don't need to care about opengfx and new openttd features 16:21:53 <planetmaker> Alberth: somehow that backtrace seems familiar to me, though 16:21:59 <planetmaker> But I can't reproduce it 16:22:30 <Weeknie> erm, little note, my msys is complaining about grep not having an option --o, does it exist under linux or is this a fault in the makeFile of OGFX+? 16:23:17 <_Ben_> Ammler: think it will surfice for simple sprite alignment and testing, and as a simple way of seeing how sprites build up a building/bridge etc, which is what I intiailly needed, so I'll head off and work with that. Thanks for the help 16:23:18 <planetmaker> Weeknie: it's you not having the grep which I expect to have :-) 16:23:26 <Weeknie> Ok good;) 16:23:54 <planetmaker> -o, --only-matching 16:23:55 <planetmaker> Show only the part of a matching line that matches PATTERN. 16:24:09 <planetmaker> grep (GNU grep) 2.5.1 16:24:18 <Weeknie> Well I suppose the makefile isn't going to work under minGW/msys then 16:25:27 <Alberth> lang/default.txt doesn't seem to be included. You probably have a smarter command than what I enter at the command line :) 16:25:32 <Weeknie> Anyone here happen to have the pcx file of a simple read vehicle? (just one) 16:25:47 <Weeknie> road* 16:26:18 *** _Ben_ [~Ben@81-5-142-101.dsl.eclipse.net.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:28:51 <Yexo> Alberth: it should be lang/default.lng 16:29:31 <Yexo> Weeknie: there should be some small pcx files in ogfx+ 16:29:51 <Weeknie> Well, 1. their trains, 2. there's 8 of em 16:29:57 <planetmaker> there's 3 trams 16:30:12 <planetmaker> which are per definition road vehicles 16:30:14 <Weeknie> Erm, well, actually looking or busses, should've said that 16:30:17 <Weeknie> Yeah soryr 16:30:21 <Weeknie> but 've got it 16:30:36 <planetmaker> tram and bus are nothing different in NFO 16:30:43 <planetmaker> except the tram flag 16:31:12 <Weeknie> It's fine, I found something, I got what I needed:P 16:31:46 <Alberth> Thanks Yexo, I was running nml2info in the wrong directory 16:31:55 <Ammler> Jupix: do you still use openttdw.grf sprite numbers somewhere? 16:32:30 <planetmaker> Alberth: that's what the makefile is for :-P 16:33:00 <Alberth> yeah, but it assumes nml2info is in the PATH, and 'nml' is in PYTHONPATH, which is not true here 16:34:01 <Alberth> also, I cannot tell nml2nfo to use ../../ogfxplus/hg_trunk/lang/default.lng 16:34:17 <planetmaker> Alberth: easy workaround: create a Makefile.local 16:34:17 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:19 <Alberth> hmm, name is also wrong, should be nml2grf 16:34:28 <planetmaker> NML=relative/path/to/nml2nfo 16:34:43 <planetmaker> ^ only line in Makefile.local 16:34:48 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 16:34:56 <Ammler> Alberth: you can set those before PATH="$PATH:... ; PYTH.... 16:36:20 <Ammler> isn't that common with every python app? 16:36:21 <Alberth> I don't like having dev directories in my $PATH very much 16:36:49 <Alberth> at work I use combinator to solve those problems, but it does not work with hg 16:37:10 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC6991.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:37:14 <Ammler> in this case I would symply symlink the wrapper to ~/bin 16:37:39 <Ammler> or /usr/local/bin 16:37:45 <Yexo> Alberth: nml2nfo is from when it couldn't yet write grf files, it can still write nfo files 16:38:00 <Yexo> and in the future also nml (from nfo/grf), so even nml2grf would be obsolete then 16:38:23 <yorick> I'd call it nmltool 16:38:27 <yorick> or nmlcodec 16:38:34 * Alberth shoots Ammler for messing in /usr/local 16:38:34 <Weeknie> Yorick, agreed 16:38:42 <Ammler> Alberth: ? 16:38:51 <Ammler> what is /usr/local for else? 16:39:10 <Alberth> system-wide installs by root imho 16:39:22 <Ammler> yep, and? 16:39:29 <Alberth> hardly useful if you want to mess with the nml source code 16:40:00 <Ammler> ~/bin doesn't work then? 16:42:14 <Alberth> then the 'nml' python dir must also move to ~/bin. 16:42:29 <Ammler> don't think so, that should be handled by the wrapper 16:42:45 <planetmaker> Alberth: really... just use Makefile.local :-) 16:43:01 <Alberth> trust me, I program Python for 7 years or so :) 16:43:19 <Alberth> planetmaker: that also fails, and I don't feel like finding out why 16:43:19 <Ammler> Alberth: I am no dev, but here, python tools work without that 16:43:37 <planetmaker> Alberth: yes. If they're in the path 16:43:56 <planetmaker> if you don't want to add it to the path (as you said), you need to tell where it is found, right? 16:44:00 <Ammler> nml isn't the only one I use that way... 16:44:40 <Alberth> I made two soft-links to nml and nml2info, and it works now. Good enough for now. 16:45:04 <planetmaker> :-) 16:45:08 <Alberth> Perhaps I should hack combinator to work with hg :p 16:45:42 <Ammler> hmm, strange... 16:46:01 <Ammler> you tried without symlinking nml? 16:47:07 <Alberth> Ammler: python imports relative to the main script file, ie nml2info. So if I move that script, I must also move 'nml', or add it to the PYTHONPATH of course 16:47:17 <Yexo> didn't planetmaker have the same problem that it only worked after symlinking nml2nfo with a full (non-relative) path? 16:47:38 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:47:39 <Ammler> Alberth: that is how you think it should be, my question was, did you try without symlinking "nml"? 16:48:03 <Ammler> because I wonder, why that works here without 16:48:14 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 16:48:22 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:48:37 <Ammler> I would guess, python does assume the nml path relative to the script 16:48:49 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 16:48:54 <Ammler> (following the symlink) 16:49:22 <Eddi|zuHause> sys.path 16:50:53 *** elmz_ [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:50:54 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 16:51:00 <andythenorth> so....I was thinking the other day about whether the GUI should use rounded corners. I thought "that's not TTD style" 16:51:06 <andythenorth> then I found these TTO screenshots :) 16:51:06 <Alberth> Ammler: you are correct, it probably follows the symlink. Nice 16:51:12 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=81115 16:51:57 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=7487 (annoyingly requires quicktime) 16:52:12 <planetmaker> andythenorth: quite ugly from the screenshot tbh :-) 16:52:18 <Alberth> it also has grey texture background 16:52:21 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba8447.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:52:26 <andythenorth> yes, it's not pretty 16:52:44 <andythenorth> but round is easier on the eye than square. I wondered if it was time to jump that way.... 16:53:27 <Ammler> [18:51] <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=7487 (annoyingly requires quicktime) <-- strange browser settings then... 16:53:40 <Alberth> \o/ I did not break ogfxplus with my parser nml changes! 16:53:59 <andythenorth> is the actual GUI drawn from something like fill shapes, or is it placing sprites? 16:54:16 <andythenorth> (e.g. window boxes, title bars etc) 16:54:40 <andythenorth> or I should read the code :P 16:55:46 <planetmaker> andythenorth: both 16:56:04 <andythenorth> where is the drawing code? (I'm searching, but...) 16:56:39 <planetmaker> widget.cpp 16:56:43 <planetmaker> window.cpp 16:56:56 <planetmaker> all icons are sprites which are placed 16:57:15 <planetmaker> and honestly: round windows in OpenTTD: no! 16:57:35 <andythenorth> GfxFillRect ? 16:57:45 <Alberth> mostly yes 16:57:45 <planetmaker> for example, yes 16:57:54 <andythenorth> planetmaker: what's the objection....other than 16 years of history? 16:58:10 <planetmaker> loosing character 16:59:08 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: Quit] 17:03:34 <andythenorth> I've probably posted this before: http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Round_Rects_Are_Everywhere.txt 17:11:10 * andythenorth hmmms 17:11:19 <andythenorth> I seem not to have broken something that should have broken :P 17:12:05 * andythenorth isn't smart enough to adapt DrawColourMappingRect to draw rounded rects 17:12:33 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.A212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 17:13:14 * andythenorth thinks out loud 17:13:58 <andythenorth> so for 4px radius, on the first column of a rounded rect, miss out the first 3px...? 17:15:26 * andythenorth goes back to things he can do 17:20:03 * andythenorth concludes that chipping 1px off the outer corners of each window would be nice 17:20:04 <Alberth> Yexo: in case you feel like patching nml :) http://paste.openttd.org/225832 17:20:08 <andythenorth> 2px would be gross 17:20:13 * Alberth << food now 17:22:09 * planetmaker just put a perfectly round Quiche into the oven 17:23:09 <planetmaker> :-O @ nml patch list 17:23:20 <andythenorth> planetmaker: how many pix radius? 17:23:23 <andythenorth> :P 17:23:29 <planetmaker> 0? ;-) 17:23:45 <andythenorth> GUI style page on wiki is nice 17:24:06 <planetmaker> OSx seems to shave off three pixels 17:24:28 <planetmaker> but only in the top 17:24:33 <andythenorth> I meant how many px radius is the quiche :P 17:24:40 <planetmaker> the bottom edges are perfectly square 17:24:58 <planetmaker> ah :-) I'd say a radius of 1000 pixels, if I took a photo 17:25:27 <planetmaker> But I rather eat it than take photos of it :-P 17:25:43 <andythenorth> I concluded that there will be much resistance to rounded corners in the OTTD gui, even if I could figure out how to implement it... 17:26:03 <planetmaker> :-P 17:26:09 * andythenorth looks at some town buildings for FIRS 17:26:19 <planetmaker> make they cylinders :-P 17:26:47 <andythenorth> time to learn how to code houses 17:26:49 <Alberth> planetmaker: something with the patches? 17:27:11 <Alberth> s/something/something wrong/ 17:27:21 <planetmaker> Alberth: not that I know 17:27:44 <Alberth> you looked a bit amazed to me 17:27:51 <planetmaker> I'm just surprised and delighted to have yet another person working on it who in my metric knows what he's doing 17:28:08 <Alberth> as long as it is not nfo :p 17:28:16 <planetmaker> lol 17:28:33 <Alberth> or nml, for that matter 17:29:02 <planetmaker> he? 17:32:16 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.A212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 17:34:44 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i don't think houses are much different from industries 17:34:56 <andythenorth> they are simpler if anything 17:35:09 <andythenorth> hmmm....meanwhile some of the company colours clash horribly the FIRS graphics 17:35:12 <andythenorth> with /s 17:35:13 <planetmaker> they are simpler, yes 17:35:29 * andythenorth ponders a way to restrict the range of company colours 17:35:46 <andythenorth> looks like colours can be remapped...http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action2HousesIndustryTiles 17:35:50 <andythenorth> but I don't understand it 17:36:15 <Eddi|zuHause> in which way restrict range? 17:37:07 <andythenorth> prevent some company colours being used - presumably by remapping them to another colour 17:37:08 *** Yexo [~Yexo@ip51cca4b5.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:37:27 <Eddi|zuHause> why? 17:37:40 <andythenorth> the appearance sucks in certain cases 17:37:54 <Eddi|zuHause> but that's the user's fault? 17:38:07 <andythenorth> no, company colour is chosen randomly on a per-industry basis 17:38:19 <Eddi|zuHause> ah... yes 17:38:29 *** Yexo [~Yexo@ip51cca4b5.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 17:38:45 <andythenorth> purple notably sucks in some industries :| 17:38:59 <Eddi|zuHause> so you want to replace one company colour for another, for industries 17:39:22 <andythenorth> yes 17:39:24 * andythenorth feels the lack of a (current) FIRS collaborator :P 17:39:25 <Eddi|zuHause> what if player builds an industry and wants it in his colour? 17:39:32 <andythenorth> that's out of scope 17:39:41 <andythenorth> as it's not currently possible 17:39:49 <andythenorth> I could code for it in nfo however 17:39:51 <Alberth> (07:31:19 PM) planetmaker: he? <- nml the program is different from nml the language 17:40:06 <Eddi|zuHause> afair founded industries automatically get company colour 17:40:28 <planetmaker> Alberth: sure. But nml the language is not that bad :-) 17:40:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't usually found industries, but i read that somewere... 17:40:42 <andythenorth> nah, it's random 17:40:59 <andythenorth> it could be otherwise using nfo, but it would again need recolor sprites 17:41:30 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... where the hell did i read this... 17:41:47 <andythenorth> if it's on the wiki, correct it :) 17:42:01 <andythenorth> I tested it in game, it's not the case 17:42:54 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 17:43:48 <Yexo> Alberth: do you have an account at the openttdcoop devzone? 17:44:15 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... somehow the soundtrack of avatar has similarities with the one from pirates of the caribbean 17:44:26 <andythenorth> rousing? 17:45:29 <andythenorth> houses look ok. 17:45:37 <andythenorth> designing what I need to code looks a bit harder 17:45:52 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r19882 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files): (log message trimmed) 17:45:52 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:52 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 5 changes by josesun 17:45:52 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 7 changes by VoyagerOne 17:45:52 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: finnish - 5 changes by jpx_ 17:45:53 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: french - 5 changes by glx 17:45:53 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: greek - 32 changes by fumantsu 17:46:07 <Eddi|zuHause> what does "rousing" mean? 17:46:19 <andythenorth> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rousing 17:47:02 <Yexo> andythenorth: there is a callback to chose the industry colour 17:47:42 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... not entirely sure how to put that word into context... 17:47:45 <andythenorth> Yexo: how very handy :) 17:48:03 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: are there lots of marching major chords? 17:48:08 <Yexo> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=callbacks#Decide_industry_colour_14A_ 17:48:19 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe 17:48:30 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has joined #openttd 17:48:55 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: planetmaker...need some opinions on FIRS design 17:49:00 <Mazur> Rousing: energizing, getting your blood flowing. 17:49:06 <planetmaker> yes, I'm listening :-) 17:49:26 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: then you've come to the right place ;) 17:49:33 <andythenorth> using houses rather than industries for things that locate in town and accept cargo (general store etc) 17:49:34 <andythenorth> ? 17:49:39 <andythenorth> good or bad 17:49:50 <planetmaker> depends 17:49:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: depends 17:50:00 <planetmaker> Houses can come and go 17:50:09 <planetmaker> though that can be configured, too 17:50:12 <andythenorth> yup 17:50:16 <andythenorth> they can be protected 17:50:17 <planetmaker> but they cannot be built by the player 17:50:35 <planetmaker> thus it's an industry which neither a scenario designer nor a player can build 17:50:35 <andythenorth> I think I can ensure that at least one is provided in every town of population > x 17:50:44 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem with protecting them is that the "problem" of ever rising numbers of shops does not disappear 17:50:46 <planetmaker> you can ensure that at most 17:51:09 <planetmaker> but IIRC not at least one 17:51:23 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem with normal houses is that the disappear and pop up somewhere else pretty frequently 17:51:46 <Eddi|zuHause> and _please_ don't go the way of the TTRS fuel station 17:51:49 <planetmaker> I think one of the biggest problems is that it makes scenario design / industry placement basically impossible 17:51:53 <Eddi|zuHause> that only accepts 6/8 17:52:30 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that needs a house picker for the scenario editor 17:52:38 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: yes :-) 17:52:49 <planetmaker> are you writing one? :-P 17:53:12 <Eddi|zuHause> you know my stand on GUI code :p 17:53:15 <andythenorth> what is the problem with TTRS fuel station? 17:53:30 *** elmz_ [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 17:53:37 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you need two of them in vincinity, which is _extremely_ difficult when they constantly move about 17:53:53 <andythenorth> what, one doesn't provide 8/8 acceptance? 17:54:11 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it's 6/8, which is completely stupid 17:54:19 <andythenorth> dumb 17:54:32 <andythenorth> should a fuel station even exist? 17:54:50 <Eddi|zuHause> well, something that accepts fuel needs to exist 17:54:58 <Eddi|zuHause> when the GRF provides fuel 17:54:59 <andythenorth> currently all fuel oil on the map will get delivered to the Machine Shop to get more ENSP 17:55:14 <andythenorth> judging by most players feedback so far anyway 17:55:25 <Eddi|zuHause> PBI has fuel tank industry as a fuel sink 17:55:26 <planetmaker> might be nice to have petrol stations for that, yes 17:55:36 <planetmaker> and fuel depots, yes 17:55:36 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [] 17:55:51 <planetmaker> But fuel depots can be built by the player as station. 17:55:59 <planetmaker> From where it is then trucked to the petrol stations 17:56:04 <andythenorth> yup 17:56:11 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 17:56:16 <andythenorth> I'm planning to draw some more fuel depot sprites for ISR one day 17:56:43 <andythenorth> meanwhile....the problem with town cargos in FIRS is that there is no point transporting them 17:56:58 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i don't know many "fuel depots" around here... 17:57:00 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [] 17:57:16 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: me neither 17:57:31 <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't really have any insight into the distribution system of the oil refinery 17:57:34 <planetmaker> but there certainly are some. At least near ... refineries 17:57:37 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 17:58:01 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you can consider those to be _IN_ the refinery ;) 17:58:03 <andythenorth> fuel is often shipped in bulk (train, barge) or by pipeline to local depots where it is stored / transloaded into trucks 17:58:10 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: I'd guess in Leuna or so there are certainly some kind of depots. Whether fuel or not - dunno 17:58:25 <andythenorth> anyway 17:58:36 <andythenorth> so town houses is *not* a clear choice for FIRS? 17:58:59 <andythenorth> I don't need to free up the industry slots, there are plenty at the moment 17:59:08 <Eddi|zuHause> all i ever witnessed is that a shitload of trucks get loaded in the refinery, i guess they directly circle the fuel stations in the area then 17:59:16 <Eddi|zuHause> without any intermediate depot 17:59:31 <planetmaker> might be, yeah 17:59:50 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: really, it depends on whether you want to have them destroyable by the player or the town 18:00:31 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:00:43 <planetmaker> I guess one could live with it quite well, if they're not the only fuel sink 18:00:44 <Eddi|zuHause> both variants have their own problems 18:10:24 <Alberth> Yexo: created one today 18:12:01 <Alberth> although I seem to be thrown out of the web interface when I disable google-analytics.com access 18:12:10 <Yexo> I added you as developer now, feel free to push all those patches (although the whitespace ones conflict with my last commit) 18:12:23 <Yexo> I just pushed the first patch before you reacted 18:14:41 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: personally I don't really care about destruction. But I don't play MP and I don't design scenarios, 18:15:34 <andythenorth> even the original game doesn't give me much of a design cue 18:15:43 <andythenorth> goods and food need houses, water needs a water tower 18:20:58 <planetmaker> the idea might be: industry=needs special building, house=can be accepted by any house (like goods + food are needed where people live, petrol only at petrol stations) 18:21:08 <planetmaker> alas... a bit wavy argument ;-) 18:22:24 <andythenorth> so the general store only exists because I don't want to patch every house to accept food :) 18:22:59 <planetmaker> yeah. 18:23:31 <planetmaker> hm... that's a climate thing with houses, unfortunately. At least with default ones. 18:23:35 * Alberth needs a openttdcoop dev admin 18:23:42 <planetmaker> what do you need? 18:23:57 <planetmaker> ^ Alberth 18:23:58 <Alberth> hg push gave 'authorization failed' 18:24:08 <planetmaker> what did you push to? 18:24:13 <Alberth> nml 18:24:32 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd 18:24:33 <Alberth> http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml 18:24:34 <planetmaker> :-) I meant the URL 18:24:41 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:25:28 <andythenorth> modifying default houses might not be too bad, especially if scripted somehow.... 18:25:36 <andythenorth> ....but then there are also house sets to consider 18:25:49 <andythenorth> I would rather just have shops / houses accept food directly 18:25:59 <Alberth> so default houses is not a set? 18:25:59 <planetmaker> Alberth: try http://hg.openttdcoop.org/hg-repos/nml 18:26:16 <frosch123> andythenorth: modfying default houses is a very bad idea 18:26:36 <andythenorth> what are the problems? 18:26:42 <frosch123> well, unless you add parameters to disable that 18:26:54 <Alberth> $ hg push http://hg.openttdcoop.org/hg-repos/nml <-- gives abort: HTTP Error 404: Not Found 18:27:05 <frosch123> just that you create a monolithic grf, which cannot be uses with other housesets 18:27:35 <planetmaker> I hm... 18:27:38 <andythenorth> we could provide for that with checks, but then (a) FIRS cargo chains might break (b) it's a lot of code spaghetti 18:27:53 <frosch123> Alberth: doesn't it have to https for push? 18:28:14 <planetmaker> oh, yes, that should be needed 18:28:21 <Alberth> I don't know, I was hoping a openttdcoop dev admin would know :) 18:28:26 <planetmaker> :-P 18:28:37 <planetmaker> try the URL you gave but https 18:28:40 <frosch123> iirc that was written in the wiki page, which was posted yesterday 18:29:23 <andythenorth> hmm 18:29:34 <Alberth> hg push https://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml <-- now gives abort: HTTP Error 404: Not Found 18:29:44 <Ammler> Alberth: where do you have the url from? ( http://hg.openttdcoop.org/hg-repos/nml) 18:29:49 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: what exactly is the problem with having 'lots' of stores in a town? Does it obliterate passenger production / acceptance? 18:29:51 <Ammler> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/wiki/Mercurial 18:29:53 <Alberth> hg push https://hg.openttdcoop.org/hg-repos/nml <-- gives abort: error: Name or service not known 18:30:13 <Alberth> Ammler: planetmaker gave it 18:30:28 <planetmaker> Alberth: try the one _you_ gave with https 18:30:44 <Ammler> pm wouldn't work either 18:30:45 <frosch123> Alberth: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/wiki/Mercurial 18:30:47 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i don't think "lots" is the problem, it's that they get more and more... 18:31:32 <Alberth> frosch123: ah, it is not a repo :) 18:31:42 <Ammler> Alberth: https://<user>:<password>@push.openttdcoop.org/nml 18:32:05 * planetmaker should also remember that wiki page :-P 18:33:36 <andythenorth> do house sets play nice with each other? 18:33:38 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 18:33:49 <andythenorth> i.e. respect each other's use of IDs etc. similar to engine pool 18:33:54 <frosch123> andythenorth: only cargos do not play nice with each other 18:34:02 <planetmaker> andythenorth: yes 18:34:15 <planetmaker> frosch123: how so / in what way? 18:34:27 <andythenorth> so for FIRS....I might (a) provide a range of 'shop' houses that accept food and goods 18:34:29 <frosch123> but i doubt anyone would like original houses between canadian, swedish or japanse 18:34:40 <andythenorth> (b) provide petrol stations as industry, similar to water tower 18:35:02 <Alberth> Ammler: it interprets my pwd as a number and fails 18:35:15 <planetmaker> meh 18:35:15 <frosch123> planetmaker: houses, industries, industry tiles, airports, vehicle ... everything has local ids with overridemanagers. just cargos have fixed cargoslots. 18:35:49 <Alberth> hmm, I have a weird punctation char in it :p 18:36:00 <planetmaker> frosch123: and that means two house sets with different cargo translation tables mess up? 18:36:09 <andythenorth> 512 total IDs for houses 18:36:20 <frosch123> planetmaker: i meant grfs with cargo definitions 18:36:29 * andythenorth wonders if US Town Set or TTRS use all the slots? 18:36:40 <Ammler> Alberth: also if you give the credentials seperately? 18:36:41 <planetmaker> andythenorth: they don't. For quite sure 18:36:50 <planetmaker> Especially as they're TTDP compatible ;-) 18:36:55 <Ammler> my url is just easier to save as default-push 18:37:14 <frosch123> there is no problem with using multiple houesets, just i doubt everyone would like a industry set like firs to enforce presence of default houses 18:37:23 <andythenorth> I'd have to draw some :) 18:37:25 <Ammler> Alberth: possible to tell me the "bad" char? 18:37:43 <Alberth> Ammler: html %xy encoding did the trick 18:37:58 <Ammler> oh, good to know :-) 18:38:07 <andythenorth> town stuff is tricky because FIRS basically needs to control the whole economy, which conflicts with the aims of some house sets 18:38:13 <Alberth> for the 'hg clone', next is the push :) 18:38:50 <Ammler> you could use different urls for pull and push 18:39:01 <Ammler> dunno, if that is much faster :-) 18:40:08 <planetmaker> [20:37] <Alberth> Ammler: html %xy encoding did the trick 18:40:10 <planetmaker> [20:37] <Ammler> oh, good to know :-) <-- indeed! 18:40:43 *** elmz_ [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:41:05 <Alberth> it works 18:41:13 <Alberth> thanks for the help 18:42:13 <planetmaker> even though I was no help: you're welcome :-) 18:44:27 <Alberth> oh, I don't need to push every commit seperately of course 18:44:34 <Alberth> how nice 18:44:36 <Ammler> well, you should 18:44:56 <Ammler> else you might have a merge mess 18:45:17 *** KouDy [~KouDy@rb5ck203.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 18:45:50 <Ammler> well, you might know it better :-P 18:46:24 <Alberth> hmm, good point 18:50:15 * andythenorth ponders 18:50:40 <andythenorth> so houses can check town popn, count of same building / building class, distance to nearest instance of type x 18:51:04 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba8447.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:51:08 <andythenorth> so it should be possible to limit FIRS-provided stores etc to sensible amounts 18:54:43 <andythenorth> a general store would have population? Maybe three :) 18:54:54 <andythenorth> also would accept and generate mail 18:55:25 <planetmaker> Ammler: there's a difference between push and commit :-) 18:55:44 <planetmaker> pushing everything separately is IMHO indeed not always necessary 18:56:11 <planetmaker> It might lead to the fact though, that merges might be required ;-) 18:56:12 <Ammler> well, it depends how you "share" the development 18:56:24 <andythenorth> I only push separately because I conflate 'vcs' with 'backup' :P 18:56:27 <Ammler> nml did it quite well, yet. 18:57:10 *** sparr [sparr@c-24-98-228-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:15 <andythenorth> hmm 18:59:32 <Ammler> I see no reason, if you have internet connection, why you shouldn't push right after commit 19:02:09 <Alberth> in a series of patches, it is an extra step that you must wait for, without being able to do anything else 19:02:56 <Alberth> but it is somewhat safer indeed 19:05:20 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19883 /trunk/src/widgets/dropdown.cpp: -Fix [FS#3812]: dropdowns did affect positioning of new windows because they were not yet removed when the new windows were positioned 19:08:59 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@93.21.13.171] has joined #openttd 19:09:14 * andythenorth isn't sure how best to deal with allowing towns to destroy stores or not 19:09:43 <andythenorth> I can make them accept 8/8 food/goods which deals with the problem of 'are there enough' 19:09:50 <planetmaker> andythenorth: you can only do it wrong :-P 19:10:06 <andythenorth> a bit like GUI design then :P 19:10:08 <planetmaker> whatever you do, *someone* will complain ;-) 19:10:21 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 19:11:21 <andythenorth> well extension of food acceptance to temperate needs to work identical to goods in default game (and food in arctic/tropic) 19:11:40 <andythenorth> sometimes towns rebuild and goods acceptance stops...that's just how the game works 19:12:19 <planetmaker> andythenorth: but basically that's then a task for a town set. 19:12:43 <planetmaker> Talk to the Swedish Set guys. They'll surely be able to help. FIRS and swedish houses fit anyway quite nicely together 19:12:55 <andythenorth> I'm already using Irwe's sprites :) 19:13:09 <planetmaker> yes. I just mean: don't bother with town acceptance too much 19:13:24 <planetmaker> Just make sure it is accepted *somewhere* 19:16:58 *** einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:59 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:17:14 <andythenorth> FIRS *could* change the default temperate houses to accept food and then find a way to play nice with town sets (parameter?) 19:18:30 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:20:40 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttd.org/225833 <-- where do I best start looking what's going wrong? 19:21:55 <Alberth> you have merged but not committed, I think 19:22:10 <Alberth> so you get the ID of both revisions. 19:22:24 <Alberth> OpenTTD findversion.sh does not understand that 19:22:27 <planetmaker> your assumption is correct 19:22:48 *** pugi_ [~pugi@p4FCC4493.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:24:12 <planetmaker> hm, there's an easy fix for that, I think 19:24:27 <Alberth> yes, hg commit 19:25:46 <planetmaker> :-P 19:25:56 <planetmaker> not before the merge is correct 19:27:02 <andythenorth> hmm 19:28:06 <andythenorth> so perhaps it's the case that town sets need to be "FIRS compatible" in the same way as vehicle sets need to be 19:28:33 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC6991.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:28:33 *** pugi_ is now known as pugi 19:28:41 <andythenorth> and so they need to implement suitable cargo acceptance 19:28:56 <andythenorth> as planetmaker said 19:29:19 <planetmaker> andythenorth: requiring that is not a good idea 19:29:41 <planetmaker> But as long as there's one sink for each cargo, you're set 19:29:53 <andythenorth> ok 19:30:52 <andythenorth> so I provide sinks as industry not houses for general ease 19:31:25 <andythenorth> only one thing I can't figure out in that case: limiting the number of industries per town 19:31:34 <andythenorth> players don't want multiple general stores per town 19:31:42 <andythenorth> but players want multiple general stores per town 19:33:22 <andythenorth> I could do a limit by '1 store per 200 inhabitants' or similar 19:33:31 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:33:31 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 19:33:33 <andythenorth> but some town sets provide insane population counts 19:33:44 <andythenorth> I could do it by distance to nearest other store 19:33:58 <andythenorth> but distance restrictions are strongly disliked 19:34:02 <asilv> i use minimum distance checks in swehouses for general stores 19:34:23 <andythenorth> implemented as houses, not industries? 19:34:31 <asilv> houses, yes 19:34:36 <andythenorth> hmmm 19:34:46 <andythenorth> do players need to be able to choose to build a store? 19:35:16 <andythenorth> distance restrictions are only disliked when they are encountered in 'fund industry' 19:36:03 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 19:37:12 <andythenorth> asilv: do swedish houses accept food in all climates? 19:37:43 <asilv> yes, if FOOD cargolabel is available 19:37:55 <andythenorth> good :) 19:37:58 <planetmaker> andythenorth: it's quite helpful to be able to choose to build a <whatever cargo> sink 19:38:06 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:38:17 <andythenorth> planetmaker: what do you think about distance restrictions? 19:38:25 <asilv> i think all newgrf houses accept food 19:38:26 <planetmaker> I don't like them 19:38:26 *** reven123 [reven123@239.81-167-85.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 19:39:09 <andythenorth> in what respects? 19:39:51 <planetmaker> in actually most respects: not at all, if wrt town centre. Not at all, if not circumvented in the SE. Not really, if only enforcing a distance between industries 19:40:00 <reven123> question: i just downloade openttd v1.0 and was planning to edit some of the grf files, but found that the downloadable graphics files are now archived as tar. files. how do i decode them to nfo files? 19:40:17 <planetmaker> reven123: unpack the tar files 19:40:23 <planetmaker> then you have grf files 19:40:35 <planetmaker> then you need to decode those by means of grfcodec to nfo 19:40:55 <planetmaker> tar files can be unpacked by most packers, e.g. winzip on windoze 19:41:51 <planetmaker> besides: you might look out whether there exist the actual source code for the newgrf you want to change. 19:42:01 <planetmaker> Chances are getting better that you'll be successful 19:43:00 <reven123> i managed to unzip one with alphazip. but my, probably outdated codecwizard is asking for ttdpatchw files in order to work. so im not sure how to go about decoding grf files anymore 19:43:46 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd 19:44:14 <reven123> not too familiar with source code. where would i find that in any case?` 19:44:31 *** JostVice [~jostvice@85.136.129.22.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #openttd 19:44:46 <Rubidium> somewhere at ttdpatch's side I fear 19:45:18 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... what was the bash builtin for string replacement again? somthing like ${i#a#b}? 19:45:28 <Eddi|zuHause> or %? 19:45:43 <Rubidium> have you tried it? 19:45:56 <reven123> ttdpatchs site? 19:46:13 <reven123> yeah i looked around, but didnt find anything 19:46:17 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: maybe / ? 19:46:27 <reven123> where would i find it you think? 19:46:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: seems like each of these have a function, just need to find out which one i need 19:46:52 <reven123> i thought ttdpatch was for patching the original ttdlx 19:46:59 <Rubidium> I would think it would be findable on ttdpatch's site 19:47:18 <Rubidium> reven123: it is for patching the original 19:47:25 <Rubidium> but you're asking about ttdpatchw.grf 19:48:02 <Eddi|zuHause> reven123: you can download new grfcodec from openttd.org/development 19:50:59 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 19:51:35 <Eddi|zuHause> so... apparently # cuts a string from the beginning of the variable, % cuts from the end 19:54:47 *** elmz_ [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 19:55:01 <reven123> not able to download that. something wrong with the webpages. tx anyway though for your answers 19:55:03 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 19:56:18 <planetmaker> reven123: http://www.openttd.org/en/download-opengfx <-- like that 19:57:06 <reven123> actually. maybe i can just ask if its already been done what im trying to achieve. i would like my cities more realistic in the sense that towns with only like 4000 pop sprawl out mostly in single housing units, and not just packed in one little circle with highrises and apartment buildings. anyone know if that has been tweaked with before. or if it is even tweakable.? 19:58:37 <planetmaker> sounds like do-able 19:58:50 <planetmaker> but if none of the common town sets works for you: then it's not yet done 19:59:51 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19884 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Feature: translatable desktop shortcut comments 20:00:10 <PeterT> ^ didn't know that was even possible 20:00:36 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:00:51 * SmatZ translates PeterT to Hungarian 20:01:04 <PeterT> too late: http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/diff/e706da6b8ddc/src/lang/hungarian.txt 20:01:40 <SmatZ> http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%A9ter hmm it stays (almost) the same 20:01:59 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:02:14 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:02:30 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-213-34-232-56.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 20:04:24 * SmatZ translates PeterT to Chinese: 䌯å€ç¥¿ (buoduolu) 20:04:31 <SmatZ> BuoduoluT 20:04:54 <Eddi|zuHause> reven123: maybe you want to try the "TaI" [UK Houses] set, i believe that implements some stuff with smaller towns 20:04:55 * PeterT translates SmatZ to SmatZish 20:05:02 <SmatZ> :) 20:05:39 <andythenorth> bah 20:05:55 <Eddi|zuHause> in german, "schmatzen" is an annoying noise you do when eating :p 20:05:57 <yorick> agreed 20:06:05 <andythenorth> 'conflicting industry types' prop won't work with 'same type as this' 20:06:22 <andythenorth> i.e. I can't use it to prevent general stores spamming a town 20:06:48 <reven123> eddi. yes i tried that because i noted the same thing. but in the game though i didnt seem to manifest at all. mostly tall apartment blocks and a handfull of houses 20:07:45 <reven123> eddi have the same word in norwegian "smatte", probably stole it from german 20:08:11 <reven123> my father does that. very annoying 20:08:15 <planetmaker> actually that verb is a bit more general than just the eating sound ;-) 20:08:22 <planetmaker> but that's just the most common use 20:08:22 <andythenorth> I might need to know something more about bit 7 20:08:23 <andythenorth> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Industries#Conflicting_industry_types_16_ 20:08:25 <Rubidium> andythenorth: disable "multiple industries of same type close to eachother" 20:08:50 <andythenorth> ok 20:09:04 <andythenorth> so that over-rides conflicting industry types as well as same-id 20:09:36 <andythenorth> I hoped it might be different 20:09:41 <PeterT> the buttons on the newgrf gui are too fat 20:10:29 <peter1138> so's your mum 20:10:38 <andythenorth> Rubidium: it's actually nowadays 'Multiple industries per town' and I'm not sure how that interacts with industry prop 16 20:10:48 <andythenorth> guess I'll be reopening industry.cpp again 20:11:51 <andythenorth> hmm 20:12:17 <andythenorth> code suggests that "multiple industries per town" is independent of what prop 16 is doing 20:12:35 <andythenorth> I think I need to understand setting bit 7 20:12:59 <andythenorth> so how do I set bit 7? :P 20:13:16 <Rubidium> SetBit(var, 7) 20:13:38 <andythenorth> :) 20:13:59 <andythenorth> industry ID is 3Bh.... 20:14:23 <reven123> bist du aus deutschland eddie? ich wolle gern nach berlin in urlaub fahren. haben sie einige sehwurtigheiten zu vorstellen? 20:14:34 <reven123> hehe, just testing my german there 20:14:49 <Rubidium> Berlin Hbf! :) 20:15:00 <reven123> ? 20:15:10 <reven123> hbf? 20:15:35 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that's about the only place of berlin i have seen in the last 15 years :p 20:15:37 <Rubidium> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Hbf <- come one... that's trivial to find! 20:15:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Hbf is the abbreviation of Hauptbahnhof [main station] 20:16:12 <reven123> ah right 20:16:22 <reven123> what about tiergarten? 20:16:32 <Eddi|zuHause> it's right next to the Reichstag 20:16:48 <Eddi|zuHause> just across the river 20:16:49 <reven123> nide 20:16:55 <reven123> nice* 20:17:01 <Rubidium> IIRC Berlin-Tiergarten isn't that nice architecturally 20:17:16 <fonsinchen> it isn't 20:17:20 <fonsinchen> it's a mess 20:17:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember anything about Tiergarten 20:17:37 <fonsinchen> cobbled together in several decades 20:17:47 <Eddi|zuHause> you might want to visit the Alexanderplatz [with the "TV tower"] 20:17:56 <fonsinchen> extended, rebuilt, with new S-Bahn and so on 20:18:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and the "museum island" is supposed to be nice 20:18:07 <reven123> is it true that east germans are still different from west germans? 20:18:15 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 20:18:22 <reven123> yeah? 20:18:30 <reven123> in waht way? 20:18:34 <reven123> how come? 20:18:48 <Eddi|zuHause> east germans are typically getting up earlier, working harder, and getting less money 20:18:56 <fonsinchen> :) 20:18:59 <reven123> :) 20:19:17 <fonsinchen> the sad thing is: it's true 20:19:19 <reven123> more vodka? 20:19:32 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 20:19:36 <Eddi|zuHause> no, you mix that up with russia :p 20:19:42 <andythenorth> So 3Bh with bit 7 set is BBh? 20:19:50 <reven123> yeah, i was just kidding 20:19:51 <planetmaker> [22:18] <Eddi|zuHause> east germans are typically getting up earlier, working harder, and getting less money <---llooool :-) 20:20:11 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: 3+7=10=A in my calculation... 20:20:19 <reven123> dosent sound like a nice place for me to live then 20:20:31 <Eddi|zuHause> ah... scratch that 20:20:32 <andythenorth> so 3Bh = ABh 20:20:33 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but bit 7 implies 80h 20:20:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't read properly 20:20:46 <Rubidium> andythenorth: no, you're right 20:20:50 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, BB is correct 20:21:02 <reven123> ok, tx for answers im off. take care 20:21:07 <andythenorth> I just guessed, based on the bit chart on wiki hex page :o 20:21:15 *** reven123 [reven123@239.81-167-85.customer.lyse.net] has quit [] 20:21:19 <andythenorth> planetmaker: interesting(?) cpp problem 20:21:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Leno is rubbish... i want Conan back... 20:21:42 <planetmaker> andythenorth: ? 20:21:51 <andythenorth> a defined id needs bit 7 setting. i.e. ID 3B needs to be BB in action 0 prop 16 20:21:56 <andythenorth> I could hard code it.... 20:22:06 <andythenorth> but that is fragile 20:22:11 <planetmaker> I've no cpp solution for that 20:22:18 <Rubidium> cpp can't do math 20:22:19 <planetmaker> unfortunately 20:22:44 <planetmaker> <3 NML :-) 20:23:01 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, apparently that's the biggest limitation for pnfo 20:23:42 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe grfcodec needs an escape sequence for arithmetical and bitwise logical operations? 20:23:57 <Rubidium> does nml have some system to define a set of bits 20:23:58 <planetmaker> andythenorth: one *could* do probably some awk or whatever magic. But that's really over-doing it 20:24:07 <planetmaker> Rubidium: A | B | C 20:24:13 <Rubidium> e.g. bits[1, 2, 5] 20:24:13 <andythenorth> I'll just stick another define nearby with a note 20:24:34 <planetmaker> It's rather that those magic bits get a name there, Rubidium 20:24:49 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/icons.png <- hmm, seems they are to big for the tiny original font 20:24:52 <Rubidium> hmm, that's true 20:25:31 <planetmaker> :-) quite lovely, though 20:26:06 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i thought the point was that the icons get more distinguishible by something other than colour 20:26:55 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: none of them is the same 20:27:11 <planetmaker> ^ 20:27:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: red and white? 20:27:35 <frosch123> they have different brightness 20:27:56 <planetmaker> frosch123: one could add - instead of MANY coins - a single money note 20:27:59 <Rubidium> guess my eyes deceive me 20:28:18 <planetmaker> colour vision easily over-prints brightness perception 20:28:21 <frosch123> planetmaker: draw a money note :) 20:28:25 <planetmaker> :-) 20:29:12 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe "new" vehicles get a "birthday present" as icon? 20:29:20 <andythenorth> coins, but arranged horizontally for comparison 20:29:31 <andythenorth> maybe not enough space 20:29:32 <planetmaker> that's too boring :-) 20:29:38 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has quit [] 20:29:40 <planetmaker> the space will be made by auto-resize 20:29:41 <frosch123> i fail to make a screenshot of the newsreminder, http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/blobreplacments.png 20:29:51 <Eddi|zuHause> red vehicles get a "broken" coin? 20:30:06 <Alberth> frosch123: really nice! 20:30:30 * Alberth ponders whether it is still original looks and feel 20:30:36 *** snc [~snc@ip10.rdlbnc.com] has joined #openttd 20:30:40 <frosch123> the newsicon is also slightly too big for default font :s 20:30:43 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust443.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:30:53 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the right icon? 20:31:06 <planetmaker> Alberth: point is that currently it's neither self-explanatory nor distinguishable for colour-impaired people 20:31:07 <frosch123> exclusive transport 20:31:11 <Rubidium> "king-of-the-town" 20:31:24 <Alberth> planetmaker: good point 20:31:56 <Eddi|zuHause> so how about the "present" and "broken coin" idea? 20:32:22 <frosch123> hmm, oh, i still failed with company colours :s 20:32:22 <Eddi|zuHause> "present" [i.e. something wrapped] indicates quite well that a vehicle is new, or not? 20:32:24 * SmatZ likes "broken coint" 20:32:26 <Rubidium> what about "nothing"? 20:32:33 <SmatZ> -t 20:32:35 <planetmaker> I'm somehow aware of that - when I show graphs to my boss I need to pay attention to those details 20:33:12 <frosch123> "present" sounds weird. "broken coin" would be nice, if you can draw a broken coin :p 20:33:55 <andythenorth> how many states does this icon represent? 20:34:08 <Rubidium> 4 20:34:32 <andythenorth> profit, loss, stopped...? 20:34:42 <Alberth> unknown 20:34:49 <Alberth> (too early to tell) 20:35:11 <Alberth> stopped? 20:35:28 <andythenorth> dunno...I'm guessing 20:35:40 <andythenorth> I can't tell from the icons 20:35:42 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: new, negative profit, positive but few profit, positive and lots of profit 20:35:50 <Rubidium> loss, some profit (but less than maximal minimal profit from the detailed ratings), lots of profit and not enough information to tell (young vehicle) 20:36:18 <Alberth> a hole would be good :) 20:37:46 <Eddi|zuHause> different idea: (-), (?), (+) and (++) icons? 20:38:37 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/icons2.png <- looks better in my usual font size 20:38:45 <frosch123> (plus fixed company colour) 20:40:04 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: la already posted such icons on the forum 20:40:13 <frosch123> but imo they do not fit the original style at all 20:40:28 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: where? 20:40:30 <frosch123> and i need icons for openttdd/w primary :p 20:40:37 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: ogfx dev thread 20:41:24 <frosch123> la uses the same coins as the ogfx icon for the economy window 20:42:30 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... yeah, they look bad 20:42:55 <planetmaker> frosch123: http://img.openttdcoop.org/images/coinnote.png <-- coin and bank note 20:43:39 <Eddi|zuHause> urgh... i don't think that looks well... 20:43:48 <frosch123> bank notes are green by definition 20:43:57 <planetmaker> :-D are they? 20:45:06 <Eddi|zuHause> only american bank notes... 20:45:32 <planetmaker> my idea was to not break the colour 20:45:42 <Eddi|zuHause> ... whoever had the bright idea to make all bank notes the same colour and same size... 20:46:17 <Eddi|zuHause> no other country in the world i have ever been to, had that system of bank notes... 20:47:36 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:47:39 <Eddi|zuHause> probably they were just too cheap on buying ink and cutting machines... 20:47:42 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/icons.png 20:47:56 <andythenorth> I've had to solve this problem before in web apps 20:48:02 <andythenorth> the smiley faces are one route 20:48:06 <planetmaker> :-) 20:48:09 <planetmaker> that's also an idea 20:48:09 <Eddi|zuHause> err... 20:48:14 <andythenorth> they are a lot harder to use than red green though :| 20:48:20 <Eddi|zuHause> not entirely sure about that :p 20:48:24 <andythenorth> *unless* your r/g colour blind 20:48:32 <planetmaker> but they need to get colour as well 20:48:43 <SmatZ> do not use this shade of red/green to distinguish something, please 20:48:51 <planetmaker> andythenorth: 10% of the male population is said to be... 20:49:13 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/icons3.png <- tweaked offsets 20:49:30 <andythenorth> I normally use 'no colour' for 'ok' (so grey, black, white) and blue for 'look at this' 20:49:46 <frosch123> are the numbers still readable enough? 20:50:13 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe those are just too many coins? 20:50:32 <planetmaker> the numbers are a bit over-printed 20:50:38 <planetmaker> that looks like a glitch. 20:50:45 <andythenorth> don't crash into the numbers :P 20:50:48 <planetmaker> But I like the concept actually a lot 20:51:00 <andythenorth> what does red / white indicate? 20:51:23 <planetmaker> red: loss. white: no data 20:51:41 <frosch123> white should be more greyish maybe 20:51:47 <planetmaker> yes 20:51:53 <andythenorth> yes 20:52:03 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.157.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:52:44 <andythenorth> hey....we could plot a sparkline from actual profit numbers :P 20:52:45 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparkline 20:52:49 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF97B0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 20:57:00 <Eddi|zuHause> damn... i need unzip to convert iso-8859-1 to utf-8 in filenames it extracts... 20:57:10 <Eddi|zuHause> but it doesn't have an option to do so... 20:58:52 <andythenorth> ok 20:59:07 <andythenorth> so what actual information is conveyed by 'this train is making a lot of profit'? 20:59:18 <andythenorth> and what decision does it support / inform? 20:59:44 <peter1138> heh, micromen on bbc4 later... again 20:59:58 <planetmaker> andythenorth: 20k / year 21:00:06 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: in the company rating details, there are several categories: one of them says "all vehicles profit >k" or something 21:00:19 <Eddi|zuHause> or £10k 21:00:24 <andythenorth> oh frick....those stupid game goals still exist :P 21:00:55 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, that's the difference between "little" and "lots of" profit 21:01:15 <planetmaker> andythenorth: not stupid at all 21:01:34 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i think some of them are stupid 21:02:30 <planetmaker> they might be. It always depends on how you look at them 21:03:38 <frosch123> esp. the £10k is stupid, as it is not affected by inflation 21:03:49 <Eddi|zuHause> some of them just don't provide good achievements, some are way too easy, some of them are biased 21:03:54 <frosch123> same holds for the vehicle profit icons 21:04:12 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. per-vehicle-profit heavily discourages road vehicles 21:04:27 <Eddi|zuHause> and repaying loan is trivial 21:06:21 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@93.21.13.171] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 21:06:56 <SmatZ> I think there is at least one FS task for that 21:07:18 <Eddi|zuHause> damn... i can'f fix these filenames :( 21:10:44 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!] 21:12:38 <Eddi|zuHause> 3) Apply the optional unzip-5.50-alt-iconv-v1.1.patch patch to UnZip. It will apply with some offsets. 21:12:39 <Eddi|zuHause> It allows to specify the assumed filename encoding in the ZIP archive using the -O charset_name option and the on-disk filename encoding using the -I charset_name option. Defaults: the on-disk filename encoding is the locale encoding, the encoding inside the ZIP archive is guessed according to the builtin table based on the locale encoding. For US English users, this still means that unzip converts from CP850 to ISO-8859-1 by default. 21:12:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Caveat: this method works only with 8-bit locale encodings, not with UTF-8. Attempting to use a patched unzip in UTF-8 locales may result in a segmentation fault and is probably a security risk. 21:16:27 *** Weeknie1 [~Maarten_S@cp1042784-a.dbsch1.nb.home.nl] has joined #openttd 21:22:06 * andythenorth was looking how to use icons to only draw the eye to relevant information - e.g. loss making vehicle 21:22:18 <andythenorth> but because of the 'yellow' state, that's a bit harder :P 21:22:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i think red catches the eye quite well 21:23:04 <andythenorth> basically if you're not r/g colour blind, colour is going to be way superior to shape 21:23:14 *** Weeknie [~Maarten_S@cp1042784-a.dbsch1.nb.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:23:17 <andythenorth> but we can't use colour, we have to use a less-good solution 21:24:37 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's why i said "broken coin" 21:25:04 <Rubidium> possibly make it red 21:25:15 <Rubidium> then a yellow coin and green bank note 21:25:50 <Rubidium> there you've got your colour difference (in a manner that makes sense / is like it current is) and different graphics 21:26:28 <Eddi|zuHause> or a red exclamation mark 21:26:42 <Rubidium> yeah, that'd probably work as well 21:26:59 <Eddi|zuHause> a white question mark, a yellow = and a green +? 21:27:32 <planetmaker> hm, along with money icon? 21:27:42 <planetmaker> that'd make sense 21:29:14 *** heffer [~felix@ip-88-152-182-156.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: heffer] 21:29:40 * andythenorth was drawing exclamation marks 21:30:13 <andythenorth> I think current 'green' could just be 'invisible' because it has zero useful information 21:30:41 <andythenorth> zero useful information deserves zero pixels 21:30:59 <frosch123> rather draw the grey state invisible 21:31:09 <planetmaker> yeah 21:31:24 <andythenorth> both are equivalent in terms of information 21:31:25 <planetmaker> but no icon will draw the question "what's up there?" 21:31:42 <planetmaker> nope 21:32:00 <planetmaker> "not enough info" != "we're doing well" 21:32:18 <andythenorth> but what action can you take in either case? 21:32:30 <andythenorth> the only action is to choose no action 21:33:19 * andythenorth tries to remember what it was like to care about the game goals 21:41:53 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:42:34 *** Bidjo [~jvl88@cp1206577-a.ndwrt1.lb.home.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:48:25 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 21:50:35 *** Weeknie1 [~Maarten_S@cp1042784-a.dbsch1.nb.home.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:51:11 <frosch123> night 21:51:22 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff00b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:45 *** Fast2_ [~Fast2@p57AF8B3C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:59:59 <Yexo> <@Rubidium> e.g. bits[1, 2, 5] <- nml has Bitmask(1, 2, 5) (that results in the constant 0x26) 22:02:11 *** TheMask96 [martijn@lust.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:02:18 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF97B0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:02:26 *** Fast2_ is now known as Fast2 22:02:52 <andythenorth> good night 22:08:10 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:08:24 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 22:10:43 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba8447.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:13:18 *** Yexo [~Yexo@ip51cca4b5.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:14:56 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 22:17:27 <SmatZ> today's SWE-CZE hockey was crazy :) 22:19:20 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 22:20:58 *** elmz_ [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:28:09 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd 22:33:56 *** elmz_ [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 22:36:51 <Rubidium> SmatZ: hockey as on the green stuff or as on the white stuff? 22:37:18 *** KouDy [~KouDy@rb5ck203.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:41:03 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:43:03 <Terkhen> good night 22:43:41 <Rubidium> night Terkhen 22:45:10 <SmatZ> good night, Terkhen 22:46:24 <SmatZ> Rubidium: the white stuff :) czech team managed to equate the score 7 second before end of the game, and they won in shootouts 22:47:01 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 22:51:12 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust443.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:24 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:53:53 <Ammler> SmatZ: we are out against Germany ;-) 22:54:05 <Ammler> that was worst 22:55:40 <SmatZ> Ammler: yeah, and you beaten us 3-2 :) 22:55:53 <Ammler> and Canada 4.1 22:56:10 <Ammler> I saw us win the tournament :-P 22:56:17 <SmatZ> :) 22:56:33 <SmatZ> I really didn't expect we can get that far 22:56:48 <Ammler> hmm, cz is good, was always 22:57:50 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:58 <Ammler> we have maybe the best european national league but weren't never really that well on a wm 22:58:04 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4493.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!] 22:58:45 <SmatZ> we are still living from Nagano (1998) 22:58:55 <Ammler> :-) 22:58:59 <SmatZ> it's mentioned everytime there is a championship... 22:59:06 <SmatZ> but it's 12 years ago :-p 22:59:18 <Ammler> we weren't even born 22:59:28 <Ammler> I can remember a 4th place 22:59:47 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [] 23:00:04 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d199096.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:02:05 <SmatZ> hmm everytime there is a championship I am searching for a nice page with results of all matches so far 23:02:10 <SmatZ> but I never manage to find ont 23:02:12 <SmatZ> one 23:02:19 <SmatZ> it's always "most recent news" 23:02:28 <SmatZ> :-/ 23:07:58 *** Fast2_ [~Fast2@p57AF8A1F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 23:12:21 <Eddi|zuHause> since when are so many people talking about ice hockey? 23:12:43 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: since it's like 20+ C outside 23:13:07 <Eddi|zuHause> that's not true, it was 19,4°C here ;) 23:14:17 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74D6A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:14:18 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8B3C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:14:34 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74D6A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:14:58 <Rubidium> well, that's "like" 20+ C... 23:15:19 <SmatZ> :) 23:15:21 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: maybe this page has overview ;) http://www.wettpoint.com/ergebnisse/eishockey/events.html 23:15:22 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-72-20.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:15:33 <Rubidium> and... those temperatures are measured in the shade, so there're undoubtedly places (in the sun) where it was a little bit warmer 23:17:23 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... there are like >1000 plugins for sim city 4 available 23:17:25 <SmatZ> danke schön, Eddi|zuHause (Tjeckien, what?) 23:17:45 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: dunno, the country names seem screwed up 23:17:46 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: I gave up downloading plugins for SC3000... 23:18:29 <SmatZ> Rubidium: yeah, I used to go out in just a T-shirt when it was 2°C and a sunny day 23:19:12 <Eddi|zuHause> people always look at you strangely when you do that... 23:19:44 <SmatZ> :-) few times some older woman asked me if I am ok 23:19:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i once went out in t-shirt and bath shoes to push the snow from the road 23:19:56 <SmatZ> :-D 23:21:03 <Eddi|zuHause> the neighbours still talk about it, even if it was almost 10 years ago... 23:21:28 <SmatZ> hehe 23:28:44 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@ip-165-139-106-77.eidsiva.net] has joined #openttd 23:28:57 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DB5C5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Regel Nr. 1: Jeder hört auf mein Kommando! - Regel Nr. 2: Jeder bleibt auf dem Weg! - Regel Nr. 3: ... ... Der, der blÀht, als hinterster geht!] 23:31:12 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:43:56 *** Yexo [~Yexo@ip51cca4b5.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 23:51:44 <Eddi|zuHause> how do i tell wine to use konqueror as browser instead of firefox? 23:52:52 <SmatZ> is that possible at all? 23:53:00 <SmatZ> maybe it uses low-level API 23:53:29 <SmatZ> as it doesn't use browser, but it shows only rendered pages 23:53:45 <SmatZ> (uses only gecko render engine, or so) 23:55:02 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.10.83.181] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2]