Log for #openttd on 20th June 2010:
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00:18:40  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
00:21:29  <Nite_Owl> So why does the Windows Installer for 1.0.2 still report it as 1.0.2-RC1 in all of the file descriptors and during the installation ??
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00:34:53  <glx> because a file has not been updated
00:36:34  <Nite_Owl> I gathered that but I was not sure if the awareness of the problem was generalized as yet
00:36:51  <glx> I wasn't aware
00:37:09  <glx> I just checked the commits
00:38:29  <Nite_Owl> There you go then
00:38:57  * Nite_Owl is happy to spread the word
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01:05:17  <Rubidium> argh... did I look over that for 5 times?!?
01:06:00  <Rubidium> something for tomorrow to look at
01:08:10  <Nite_Owl> as long as you know about it I am sure it will be solved in due time
01:14:04  <glx> too many things to update for each release
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01:34:33  <Nite_Owl> later all
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06:44:20  <peter1138> hurr
06:44:25  <peter1138> last service: 29th Jun 2404
06:44:29  <peter1138> current date... 24th Jun
06:44:32  <peter1138> 2942
06:44:54  <peter1138> i shouldn't've left it running over night
06:44:57  <peter1138> on fastforward
06:44:59  <peter1138> oops :)
06:45:08  <andythenorth> morning
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06:59:42  <andythenorth> but what does it mean? :P "Do the standard random production change as if this industry was a primary one."
07:03:09  <andythenorth> the source has the answer :)
07:12:07  <Terkhen> good morning
07:33:45  <andythenorth> primary industry closing is just annoying
07:33:53  <andythenorth> that's getting removed from :|
07:45:34  <OwenS> lol, you'd already filed the ticket
08:05:26  <peter1138> meh, normal breakdown level is too much :s
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09:13:43  <Wolf01> hi
09:14:51  <andythenorth> hi hi
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09:28:42  <peter1138> stupid servicing bollocks
09:28:50  <peter1138> last serviced 1.5 years ago
09:28:54  <peter1138> reliability 17%
09:28:58  <peter1138> servicing interval 80%
09:29:07  <peter1138> why... have you just gone straight past a depot?
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09:34:01  <Wolf01> I think the problem is in the "go non-stop to xxxxxx"
09:34:08  <Wolf01> I have the same problem
09:34:47  <peter1138> these aren't using non-stop orders
09:34:53  <Wolf01> so I always put "go to nearest depot"
09:35:10  <Wolf01> strange
09:36:20  <Wolf01> but does the non-stop order affect the maintenance of vehicles?
09:37:19  <Wolf01> if it's so I'll won't use it, if not, it's a bad behavior of vehicles
09:37:20  <peter1138> no idea
09:38:05  <andythenorth> peter1138: you're using PBS yes?
09:38:50  <Wolf01> andythenorth, pbs or not, it is the same for trains and road vehicles
09:38:53  <andythenorth> place a signal immediately in front of the depot
09:39:00  <andythenorth> otherwise trains won't find a route
09:39:39  <andythenorth> there is also a problem with RVs not going to depot, it's been in trunk for ages, but I can't reliably reproduce it
09:39:59  <Wolf01> I have it on all my saves :D
09:42:45  <andythenorth> have you reported it to flyspray?
09:43:26  <Wolf01> No, I always thought it was a difect of my play style
09:44:00  <andythenorth>
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09:44:28  <Wolf01> I tried to change the service period from days to percentual to see if the long route was the problem, but vehicles seem to ignore depots (placed near stations and 2 or 3 of them along the route) and their reliability drops to 10% really fast, with a mean of breakdowns like 10-20 per travel, so I now put "go to nearest depot" after each load and unload and they run nicely with 1 breakdown per travel
09:45:53  <Wolf01> I thought it was so to force players to take care of their vehicles
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10:17:53  * TrueBrain hugs planetmaker
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10:18:12  <TrueBrain> once again, tnx for the awesome party :) You really made something nice out of it :)
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11:40:41  <planetmaker> hey ho :-)
11:41:20  <planetmaker> nice that you enjoyed it. I did for sure. It was awesome in my eyes- if it was for you, too, I'm quite happy :-)
11:41:36  <PeterT> planetmaker: how was the party?
11:41:44  <SpComb> did SmatZ make it?
11:41:48  <PeterT> did everyone already leave?
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11:42:12  <planetmaker> Ammler's still here
11:42:22  <planetmaker> and yes, SmatZ, V453000 and Eddi did make it
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12:00:49  <Yexo> <TrueBrain> once again, tnx for the awesome party :) You really made something nice out of it :) <- I second that :)
12:00:51  <Yexo> thanks planetmaker :)
12:02:07  <planetmaker> :-) thanks all of you
12:02:33  <Ammler> Was nice to links some "Heads" to the Nicks :-)
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12:02:41  <Ammler> -s
12:08:29  * __ln__ * IRC on ICE
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12:09:25  <planetmaker> so train connection works, __ln__ ? :-)
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12:11:03  <__ln__> yeah, not even late at all
12:11:16  <__ln__> this seems to be a train coming from Interlaken Ost
12:11:54  <planetmaker> I wonder :-)
12:12:52  <__ln__> Interlaken is a nice town, btw
12:13:15  <welshdragon> Interlaken is in Switzerland, no?
12:13:22  <welshdragon> that name is familiar
12:13:26  <__ln__> it is
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12:13:29  <welshdragon> yeah
12:13:37  <welshdragon> i might have been there
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12:18:05  <welshdragon> ah, no. I went to Bern
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12:20:36  <iAN_> hello
12:21:20  <iAN_> ist jemand wach?
12:21:31  <Yexo> hello iAN_
12:21:37  <Yexo> yes, but this is an english-only channel
12:21:37  <iAN_> hi Yexo.
12:21:54  <iAN_> Yexo: can you compile the openttd sources?
12:22:04  <Yexo> yes, I can
12:22:16  <__ln__> an english-only channel with occasional speak-french-days
12:22:18  <Yexo> you'd be a lot better of asking your real question
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12:22:47  <__ln__> iAN_: i'm quite certain most of the developers indeed can compile the sources.
12:22:59  <iAN_> I'd like to have the current (1.0.2) including the infrastructure sharing pathc
12:23:14  <iAN_> but can't get it to work :(
12:23:26  <Yexo> why do you care? then it's not 1.0.2 anymore, so any recent binary including inrastructure sharing should be ok
12:24:05  <iAN_> ?!
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12:25:05  <iAN_> the only available ISsharing I know off, is from december 09
12:25:08  <Yexo> openttd 1.0.2 + infrastructure sharing is no longer version 1.0.2, so you might as well apply infrastructure sharing to trunk and compile that
12:26:05  <Yexo> <- there you can find source code from 21 february this year
12:26:07  <iAN_> yes. That's what I'd like to have - trunk of 1.0.2 including the ISS (if that works)
12:26:14  <Yexo> I don't think there is anything newer
12:26:22  <iAN_> hrmm
12:26:49  <Yexo> so you'll either have to update it yourself (I'm not going to help with that) or just take that version
12:27:25  <iAN_> which software (compiler) do you use? and which should I on win32?
12:28:12  <__ln__> it's way easier to compile on some other platform, btw.
12:28:18  <Yexo> presonally I use msvc to compile and cygwin for all commandline tools
12:28:47  <iAN_> pew! I just have my win-gaming platform
12:29:29  <welshdragon> iAN_:
12:29:51  <welshdragon> there are other docs on the wiki that are helpful
12:30:17  <welshdragon> for example
12:31:03  <iAN_> ok - tryiing...
12:36:23  <iAN_> required HD space for Visual C++ 2010 Express = 2.1 GB on C: and 300MB on E: ?!
12:36:55  <Yexo> yes, it's a very big install
12:37:00  <iAN_> erm .. isn't that a bit too much vor a c++ compiler?
12:37:21  <Yexo> yes (but it isn't only a c++ compiler)
12:37:33  <iAN_> but I just need a compiler
12:38:01  <Yexo> you could try just cygiwn/mingw, not sure if those can still compile openttd or what version you'd need
12:38:04  <Yexo> I think it works
12:41:14  <iAN_> I'm going for open-watcom-c-win32 (80MB)
12:43:15  <iAN_> ok - installation finished
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12:46:01  <iAN_> tortoise is ok?
12:46:17  <Yexo> yes
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12:49:24  <iAN_> have to restart - hope I'm back in few minutes
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12:52:45  <Rubidium> does Watcom actually compile OpenTTD? It's listed as known failing to compile OpenTTD in that never read document
12:54:32  <Yexo> iAN_ has had enough advise, if he wants to try let him try (we'll hear if it works soon)
12:58:29  <Alberth> planetmaker: thanks for your efforts yesterdaym it was FUN!
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12:58:53  <iAN_> re :-)
12:59:16  <Alberth> andythenorth: congrats on reaching the 1K limit in so little time
12:59:29  <Alberth> andythenorth: and of course on the 0.2 release!
13:00:05  <iAN_> erm - i should have limited svn to checkout only the trunk :-(
13:00:20  <Alberth> yep
13:00:49  <iAN_> hrmm. I spares a gigabyte on installing a small compiler ..,,
13:01:02  <iAN_> spares?spared
13:01:12  <Alberth> spend?
13:01:19  <iAN_> spared
13:01:25  <iAN_> saved
13:01:26  <Alberth> ok :)
13:01:52  <iAN_> Error: Compression of svndiff data failed
13:02:23  * Alberth is not surprised
13:03:16  <Alberth> downloading a copy of every branch and every release is BIG!
13:03:36  <iAN_> yeah. I killed the branch folder
13:03:45  <iAN_> have tags trunk and extras
13:03:51  <iAN_> and I'll kill the tags folder now
13:04:00  <Rubidium> tags is even huger than branches
13:04:10  <iAN_> so - finde
13:04:12  <iAN_> fine
13:04:12  <Rubidium> and extras is very very likely totally unuseful for you
13:04:34  <iAN_> I fear I need some external librarys now
13:05:09  <iAN_> couls someone please copy the link (above) to the compile-wiki page
13:05:15  <iAN_> I lost it on my last reboot :-(
13:05:29  <Yexo> <welshdragon> for example <- that one?
13:05:32  <Yexo> @logs
13:05:34  <Yexo> !logs
13:05:40  <Alberth>
13:05:46  <Yexo> ^^ or there :)
13:07:08  <iAN_> what is minGW?
13:07:49  <Yexo> "MinGW, a contraction of "Minimalist GNU for Windows", is a port of the GNU Compiler Collection (GCC), and GNU Binutils, for use in the development of native Microsoft Windows applications." <- from
13:07:55  <Rubidium> the readme lists what libraries you need
13:08:21  <Rubidium> it also lists what compilers are known to fail to compile openttd
13:09:48  <TinoDidriksen> iAN_, if you want the best free compiler for Windows, stick with VC++ Express. MinGW and Cygwin should only be used for compatability testing...
13:11:02  <TinoDidriksen> Especially if you're planning on debugging. VC++'s debugger is superb.
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13:14:46  <iAN_> I just wanna compile
13:14:54  <iAN_> and openwatcom just failed
13:15:53  <TinoDidriksen> VC++ still produces the best free output, then...
13:17:04  <iAN_> installing mingw...
13:18:20  <iAN_> (54kb/s) :(
13:19:46  <iAN_> done
13:20:30  <PeterT> woo, server updates done \o/
13:26:34  <iAN_> Unzip the folders bin, iconv, licenses, share from the SVN zip file and place into the new folder created in step 1
13:26:50  <iAN_> that means I copy these folders from my tortoise source stuff?
13:31:22  <iAN_> erm..
13:31:35  <iAN_> I have kind of a linux shell in a window now
13:31:43  <iAN_> which has gcc and make
13:31:46  <iAN_> but lacks svn
13:32:03  <iAN_> which is menat in the wiki-page? I don't find onw
13:33:03  <TinoDidriksen> Not, but a zip file from the SVN repo.
13:33:25  <TinoDidriksen> You can use Tortoise to handle all the SVN stuff, then compile in the Bash shell.
13:33:48  <iAN_> okay - moving the TRUNK folder from tortoise to where?
13:34:31  <TinoDidriksen> Could also just "cd" from the shell to wherever the folder is.
13:37:12  <SmatZ> SmatZ|zuHause
13:37:14  <SmatZ> :)
13:37:28  <SmatZ> planetmaker, thanks for the party, it was great :)
13:37:39  <planetmaker> oh, you're home again :-)
13:37:43  <SmatZ> :-)
13:37:46  <planetmaker> I'm happy that you enjoyed it :-)
13:37:51  <planetmaker> I did a lot.
13:37:53  <SmatZ> I hope all did :-)
13:37:54  <SmatZ> great!
13:38:00  <planetmaker> Thanks, Alberth, too :-)
13:38:03  <SmatZ> :-)
13:38:30  <planetmaker> I just brought Ammler to the station :-)
13:38:33  <SmatZ> :-)
13:38:47  <planetmaker> did Eddi still make it?
13:38:53  <iAN_> hrm.. :(
13:39:09  <iAN_> ./configure was dine - make does not work
13:39:27  <SmatZ> "does not work" is very vague
13:39:29  <planetmaker> make does not work <-- that's a quite useless error description
13:39:37  <Yexo> copy all output from make to and give a link to that here
13:39:47  <iAN_> make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found.  Stop.
13:39:58  <Yexo> you executed make in the wrong directory
13:39:58  <planetmaker> then configure wasn't run
13:40:07  <Yexo> hmm, actually what planetmaker says :p
13:40:08  <planetmaker> or that ^ :-)
13:40:32  <iAN_> configure: error: no zlib detected
13:40:32  <iAN_> If you want to compile without zlib use --without-zlib as parameter
13:40:42  <Yexo> so ./configure didn't run "fine"
13:40:43  <planetmaker> well. follow the advice you just pasted
13:40:54  <planetmaker> but you want zlib.
13:41:01  <iAN_> ./configure --without-zlib
13:41:01  <iAN_> ?
13:41:06  <Yexo> no zlib means no libpng right?
13:41:12  <planetmaker> and not download
13:41:13  <iAN_> where to get zlib?
13:41:21  <planetmaker> at the end of a google search
13:41:33  <Yexo> there should be some installer for it for mingw
13:41:56  <planetmaker> it's all linked in the openttd devlopment site.
13:42:04  <planetmaker> you have been linked there before afaik
13:42:28  <planetmaker> <-- here again
13:42:32  <planetmaker> might be worth reading
13:42:41  <planetmaker> hmpf...
13:42:47  * planetmaker goes disassembling tents better :-)
13:43:30  <iAN_> ja ja ja =)
13:48:01  <iAN_> compiling wget (needed to get zlib sources to be compiled later)
13:54:04  <iAN_> whoops
13:54:20  <iAN_> anti virus kills a needed file (reason virus inside)
13:54:29  <iAN_> o.O
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14:06:46  <fonsinchen> someone should implement a better line clipping algorithm ... the one in GfxDrawLine is pretty stupid (and it's duplicated in GfxDrawLineUnscaled)
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14:16:30  * iAN_ sighs
14:18:16  <iAN_> the wiki page is out of date. the files are 404 on the server :(
14:19:33  <Rubidium> iAN_: might be... the problem is that those specific versions are known to work and the newer versions are known to be broken
14:20:06  <Rubidium> which kinda implies that new mingw installations might not be able to compile OpenTTD anymore because of the brokeness
14:20:51  <iAN_> but the old version does not longer work - some server-side files are missing and return 404 :(
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14:24:41  <Rubidium> in any case I can't help with solutions as I don't run Windows
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14:25:18  <Rubidium> so someone with mingw installation experience should retry mingw from scratch again and fix the wiki
14:28:52  <iAN_> hrmm
14:29:06  <iAN_> I try to find a newer version of that zöib
14:29:09  <iAN_> zlib
14:30:31  <glx> just get it from the official page
14:33:36  <glx> and newer than 1.2.3 don't compile with mingw IIRC (at least 1.2.5 failed for me)
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14:34:39  <iAN_> I got 1.2.5
14:34:45  <iAN_> trying make
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14:37:16  <iAN_> $ ./configure
14:37:16  <iAN_> Checking for gcc...
14:37:16  <iAN_> Please use win32/Makefile.gcc instead.
14:37:21  <iAN_> what does that mean?
14:37:35  <glx> make -f win32/Makefile.gcc
14:37:56  <iAN_> aah! :-)
14:37:58  <iAN_> thx
14:38:10  <glx> it compiles but install is broken
14:38:43  <iAN_> configure finished -
14:38:48  <iAN_> how do I compile it now?
14:39:07  <glx> you just compiled it ;)
14:39:16  <iAN_> i just configured
14:39:26  <glx> you typed make -f ... ?
14:39:29  <iAN_> is that the same?
14:40:01  <iAN_> erm - i typed make - fine
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14:40:18  <Phazorx> hola
14:40:21  <iAN_> hi
14:41:19  <Phazorx> looking for concise answer here: is there visible performance difference between different blitters and if there is what would be their ranking and limitations?
14:41:56  <glx> visible depends on CPU :)
14:42:01  <iAN_> glx: something is still wrong - ./configure from openttd shows "zlib not found"
14:42:16  <glx> you installed it after compilation?
14:42:26  <iAN_> erm..
14:42:35  <iAN_> how should I have done that?
14:43:53  <Phazorx> glx so there are differences and in that case is there an answer somewhere to second part?
14:44:03  <Phazorx> perhaps a chart with mentioned "cpu dependencies" ?
14:44:19  <glx> 8bpp-anim is faster than any 32bpp
14:44:21  <Rubidium> Phazorx: probably 32bpp-simple < 32bpp-animated < 32bpp-optimised; 8bpp-simple < 8bpp-optimised; 32bpp-optimised < 8bpp-optimised *although* this *might* not be true with some drivers/libraries
14:44:35  <glx> ah yes optimised, not anim :)
14:44:39  <Phazorx> rubi i see thank
14:44:54  <glx> and on mac 8bpp are usually slower
14:45:00  <Phazorx> and what are the sacrifices to gaing said perfromance?
14:45:04  <glx> (when they don't crash)
14:45:28  <Rubidium> glx: but 8bpp is not always slower on mac
14:45:42  <glx> depends on hardware yes :)
14:47:17  <Mazur> iAN_, what distribution?
14:47:33  <Mazur> Fedora: yum -y install zlib
14:47:48  <Rubidium> Mazur: no distribution
14:48:01  <iAN_> I have winXPpro - running MingW32
14:48:07  <Rubidium> Mazur: and if you would've read a bit more of the context you would've known it
14:48:16  <Mazur> I saw: ./configure
14:48:29  <Mazur> and assumed a unix box.
14:48:38  <iAN_> ./confgure said use win32/Makefile.gcc instead
14:48:42  <Rubidium> Mazur: and like 1 line later "please use win32/Makefile.gcc instead"
14:48:52  <iAN_> and make -f win32/Makefile.gcc did "something"
14:48:56  <Rubidium> that would kinda imply it isn't quite unix
14:49:00  <glx> iAN_: <-- probably easier to get this and extract it in mingw root dir
14:49:36  <Mazur> yes, only that was not the line I saw.  I.e. you're right.
14:49:38  <glx> iAN_: make -f ... compiled it, but install is broken (make install fails)
14:51:51  <elho> an articulated part in openttd (wrt trains) is a locomotive vehicle without power, like a tender, right?
14:52:21  <Phazorx> iAN_: also, when you get to it - don't  forget to run it as ./configure --prefix-dir=/mingw
14:53:16  <elho> and a powered wagon is a non-locomotive vehicle that has power despite it is no locomotive?
14:53:17  <Phazorx> glx/rubi and i noticed almost twice the difference between 32bpp anim and 8bpp opt
14:53:26  <iAN_> I unzipped the file from the url
14:53:38  <iAN_> now I have a lib and include dir
14:53:41  <iAN_> where to put them?
14:54:13  <Phazorx> iAN_: you run proper msys+mingw right?
14:54:25  <iAN_> I think so
14:54:40  <glx> iAN_: as said, extract in mingw root dir
14:54:56  <glx> so move lib and include in mingw root
14:54:56  <Phazorx> as glx said
14:55:23  <iAN_> done
14:55:39  <Phazorx> you use svn as well?
14:56:47  <iAN_> ok - thx for help. zlib works
14:57:01  <iAN_> now - liblzo2 was not detected or disabled
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15:08:13  <planetmaker> you can ignore liblzo2
15:09:22  <iAN_> I compile it right now
15:10:28  <glx> then you'll need libpng, libfreetype, ...
15:11:03  <iAN_> first waiting to get liblzo2 compiled :-)
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15:12:47  <planetmaker> well. libpng is kinda needed. You can nearly do without the rest
15:12:56  <planetmaker> probably :-)
15:13:16  <glx> freetype is nice to have too
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15:14:18  <Eddi|zuHause> [20.06.2010 15:38] <planetmaker> did Eddi still make it? <-- yes, i did make it, everything went perfect
15:14:49  <planetmaker> :-)
15:15:01  <Eddi|zuHause> arrived at 11:15, which fit perfectly into the 30 minute buffer that i planned when i gave the 11:00 figure ;)
15:15:26  <Eddi|zuHause> so took about 1:45 plus refueling
15:16:11  <Eddi|zuHause> the google estimate for the route we took was 2:20
15:16:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i told you it's lying :p
15:16:34  <Eddi|zuHause> lieing?
15:16:38  <Eddi|zuHause> i can never tell...
15:17:11  <Eddi|zuHause> although we did go rather 160 than 130
15:17:45  <planetmaker> hehe :-P
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15:18:41  <Mazur> lieing
15:20:45  <Yexo> planetmaker: do you have a test grf for FS#3886 ?
15:21:45  <planetmaker> well, I don't have a variable I can query.
15:22:00  <planetmaker> But the current swedish rails query param1 for the date for depot changes
15:22:09  <planetmaker> that can be changed to that new variable
15:22:21  <Yexo> <- introduces var 43 (as days since 0)
15:22:32  <planetmaker> I'll happily test :-)
15:22:50  <Yexo> var[0x43] <- that is valid nml in a switch-block
15:24:13  <planetmaker> Let's see. Give me 10 minutes for compiling everything, OpenTTD + grf
15:24:22  <planetmaker> I need to update openttd anyway :-)
15:24:31  <Yexo> I can test, just found the relevant lines in swedishrails
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15:28:00  <fjb> Moin
15:29:16  <planetmaker> moin fjb
15:30:01  <fjb> planetmaker: Thanks for the nice party yesterday.
15:30:19  <planetmaker> my pleasure :-)
15:33:13  <fjb> What kind of strange person was that in the cellar?
15:34:55  <planetmaker> I have no clue. Never seen before
15:35:13  <Mazur> Hm, sounds like drinkies time to me.
15:35:32  <planetmaker> Kinda mumbling some other person's name she's been search for...
15:35:35  <fjb> Did you find out what she wanted there?
15:35:47  <fjb> Very strange.
15:35:50  <planetmaker> suspecting that the person lived there.
15:36:02  <planetmaker> But then I'd not go through the back door but use the door bell...
15:36:13  <planetmaker> And I haven't heart that name. Not living here
15:36:29  <fjb> Strange person.
15:37:03  <planetmaker> Yexo: I wasn't successful
15:37:11  <planetmaker> hm... wait: days?
15:37:14  <Yexo> I was :p
15:37:16  <Yexo> yes, days
15:37:19  <planetmaker> :-P
15:37:25  <planetmaker> then 1965 is always too low ;-)
15:37:38  <Yexo> <- try that
15:37:38  <fjb> I see most people got home well.
15:38:01  <fjb> Even the crazy dutch. :-)
15:38:09  <iAN_> okay - new question: checking revision... no detection
15:38:18  <iAN_> WARNING: there is a great chance you desync
15:38:21  <planetmaker> that's nice, Yexo :-)
15:38:22  <iAN_> how do i fix that?
15:38:37  <Yexo> don't play multiplayer, or fix the revision detection
15:38:49  <Yexo> you can do the latter by installing svn/hg in mingw
15:38:50  <iAN_> how do i fix a "revision detecting"?
15:39:15  <PeterT> ./configure --revision=rXXXXX
15:39:28  <iAN_> 1.0.2 ?
15:39:30  <Yexo> PeterT: that'd not a fix, it's a workaround
15:39:54  <PeterT> Yexo: so? :-D
15:39:57  <Yexo> iAN_: only if you really compiled 1.0.2 (which I doubt)
15:40:18  <fjb> Oh, that PeterT...
15:40:19  <iAN_> i used tortoise svn to obtain /trunk
15:40:26  <iAN_> should be 1.0.2 ?!
15:40:39  <PeterT> indeed, that PeterT
15:40:44  <Yexo> iAN_: trunk is not 1.0.2
15:40:52  <iAN_> yack!
15:40:59  <Yexo> trunk is the latest development, currently last trunk is r20001
15:41:04  <PeterT> iAN_: 1.0.2 !...Yexo beat me to it
15:41:21  <PeterT> @openttd commit 20000
15:41:23  <DorpsGek> PeterT: Commit by rubidium :: r20000 /tags/1.0.2 (9 files in 4 dirs) (2010-06-19 16:44:18 UTC)
15:41:24  <DorpsGek> PeterT: -Release: 1.0.2
15:43:41  <Yexo> iAN_: see for an explanation of the different versions
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15:45:13  <iAN_> so I'm going to download branch 1.0.2?
15:46:07  <Yexo> there is normally no reason to compile a release version unless you don't want to use the precompiled binaries for some reason
15:46:33  <iAN_> I want to have 1.0.2 including the infra-structure-sharing patch
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15:47:00  <Yexo> 1.0.2 + infrastructure sharing is no longer 1.0.2, so you might as well use trunk+infrastructure sharing
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15:47:33  <Yexo> did you ever program anything before?
15:47:34  <iAN_> well .. 1.0.2 seemed to me a public final release
15:47:48  <iAN_> I have no idea what "new bugs" or "half" features are in the trunk
15:48:07  <theholyduck> iAN_, trunks are GENERALLY quite stable
15:48:18  <iAN_> hrmm
15:48:30  <Yexo> iAN_: at this moment it's the other way around, a few minor bugs are solved in trunk but were not backported to 1.0.2
15:48:51  <iAN_> okay - configure on the trunk went fine
15:49:05  <iAN_> do i have to configure again after applying the patch?
15:49:12  <planetmaker> no
15:49:20  <planetmaker> but could you successfully build unpatched trunk?
15:49:25  <planetmaker> if not: try that first
15:49:30  <iAN_> kay. thx
15:49:39  <theholyduck> Yexo, at MOST moments in most projects
15:49:52  <theholyduck> bugs are found and fixed much earlier in svn/git/trunk
15:49:58  <theholyduck> than in releases
15:50:44  <Yexo> theholyduck: yes, but I've also seen several projects where half-finished features were committed to trunk, leaving it in a broken state
15:50:47  <iAN_> I get some E:/msys/home/iAN/openttd/ svn: command not found messages
15:50:51  <iAN_> but I just typed make
15:51:01  <theholyduck> Yexo, i've never seen that happen in years :P
15:51:13  <theholyduck> most people only commit new features to trunk when they atleast work
15:51:22  <planetmaker> Yexo: it should work with both you patches, to openttd + swedishrails that I get the old depots before 1960 and the new ones after...
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15:51:40  <planetmaker> what's the obvious thing I do wrong, if I don't see that but always modern ones?
15:52:00  <theholyduck> Yexo, what can happen is when they commit a complete feature based on the submissions of idiots :P
15:52:28  <theholyduck> i remember mplayer trunk being broken for weeks due to a security patch that fixed sevral important security holes, while also breaking mplayer completely
15:52:32  <Yexo> planetmaker: dunno, does "info" on the tiles show the biuld date correctly?
15:53:04  <Yexo> planetmaker: and there are 2 blocks in swedishrails that have to be changed
15:53:24  <planetmaker> yes, both electric and normal
15:53:35  <iAN_> ok - make did fail
15:53:44  <planetmaker> yes, I do have a build date for depots... Hm... let's see.
15:53:51  <iAN_> somehow missing zlib ans lzo
15:53:52  <iAN_> E:/msys/home/iAN/openttd/src/crashlog.cpp:167:23: lzo/lzo1x.h: No such file or directory
15:53:52  <iAN_> E:/msys/home/iAN/openttd/src/crashlog.cpp:174:19: zlib.h: No such file or directory
15:54:09  <planetmaker> why do I have modern ones in 1964 when I set the -date(1965,1,1)? hm...
15:54:11  <theholyduck> building on windows is always such effort
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15:54:31  <theholyduck> iAN_, is there no premade builds with infrastructure sharing on?
15:54:58  <theholyduck> compiling in linux is easy enough, any depdendencies you want is at your fingertips.
15:55:03  <iAN_> I didn'T find a version newer than december 09
15:55:29  <Alberth> theholyduck: yeah, ain't it nice, new users always pick the platform most difficult for development :p
15:55:46  <iAN_> I want to PLAY - not to compile it
15:56:01  <theholyduck> heck, on debian and i figure ubuntu, you can always just run apt-get build-dep openttd
15:56:11  <theholyduck> and all the dependencies are installed automatically
15:56:15  <theholyduck> and you can compile at will
15:56:41  <Alberth> and anything missing is installed in less than a minute :)
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15:59:57  <iAN_> giving up
16:00:10  <iAN_> where can I get a windows binary with iss patch?
16:00:33  <Eddi|zuHause> didn't you say you already had one?
16:00:42  <iAN_> from december 09
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16:00:46  <Eddi|zuHause> so?
16:00:48  <iAN_> lacking a lot of nice functions
16:00:52  <Eddi|zuHause> so?
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16:01:01  <iAN_> I want those "new" functions
16:01:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i want 3000 euro from you
16:01:13  <Alberth> iAN_: in the iss thread, if it exists
16:01:13  <planetmaker> iAN_: newer binaries for IS2 are only available at the end of a compile session
16:01:49  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: most likely too cheap :)
16:01:49  <iAN_> I tried hard to compile - but faild
16:02:06  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: probably ;)
16:02:21  <elho> Alberth: indeed, that's not enough to touch windows with a ten feet pole :P
16:02:44  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: but isn't that how the current economy works? you make an estimate way too low, and then correct it upwards to factor x5?
16:03:19  <Alberth> elho: just the work to update the patch is already a lot of work
16:03:40  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, the "touching windows" part is trivial ;)
16:03:47  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: oh sorry, then the estimate sounds completely reasonable :)
16:04:12  <planetmaker> Yexo: yes, it works :-)
16:04:22  <planetmaker> Don't ask me why I was too stupid ;-)
16:04:30  <planetmaker> there's 4 switch statements :-)
16:04:44  <Yexo> good to hear it works :)
16:05:34  <Alberth> iAN_: getting it to work is difficult. Give up today, and try again in a few days
16:05:43  <Alberth> eventually, you will succeed
16:06:29  <Alberth> and afterwards, it will also be completely clear why it fails now.
16:07:05  <planetmaker> Yexo: NML: "src/railtypes.pnml", line 199: Parameters of date() should be compile-time constants <-- hehe
16:07:17  <planetmaker> it gives immediately other desired ;-)
16:07:21  <Alberth> a line number!
16:07:28  <planetmaker> switch(FEAT_RAILTYPES, SELF, depot_electric_year_switch_snow, max(var[0x43] - date(param[1], 1, 1), 0)) {
16:08:11  <planetmaker> of course there's an easy way around this
16:08:58  <Yexo> planetmaker: non-const parameters in date() is very tricky
16:09:08  <planetmaker> hm...
16:10:37  <elho> is tractive effort in the engines data arbitrarily choosen or calculated from power and mass?
16:10:42  <Eddi|zuHause> isn't there such a thing as a "calculated" varaction 2?
16:10:58  <planetmaker> elho: it's neither. It's defined by the newgrf
16:11:45  <elho> planetmaker: that is what i meant by arbitrary, as in arbitrarily chosen by the grf author :)
16:11:53  <Eddi|zuHause> elho: most newgrf sets try to take the values of real vehicles
16:11:54  <planetmaker> then: yes :-)
16:12:28  <Eddi|zuHause> elho: maybe this is worth a read
16:12:45  <elho> so then the accelaration formula for non-maglev trains on the wiki makes no sense. the game calculates based on tractive effort, however the formula on the wiki does not mention that at all
16:13:05  <Alberth> nah, the program picks an aribtrary value that matches the value give by the grf author :p
16:13:20  <Eddi|zuHause> elho: which exact formula do you mean? there are two acceleration models in the game
16:13:33  <Eddi|zuHause> the simple (original) one does not use tractive effort at all
16:13:50  <Eddi|zuHause> the complex ("realistic") one does.
16:13:54  <elho>
16:14:38  <Eddi|zuHause> and wikis tend to have problems because information may be based on urban legends (like "goods make cities grow")
16:14:45  <elho> those. and i'm talking about realistic accel. as does that page claim to do and also seems to do (for the maglev and slope resistance parts at least)
16:14:46  <Eddi|zuHause> or are just outdated
16:17:26  <Eddi|zuHause> elho: the real formula is likely in src/ground_vehicle.cpp if you want to fix the wiki
16:17:31  <elho> right. therefore i'm destililng up my own formula from the source. but i currently (as it is both what i'm interested in and the simpler case) only looking at maglevs, where te does not matter.
16:18:49  <Eddi|zuHause> elho: if (mode == AS_ACCEL && force > max_te) force = max_te; <-- that's probably the part that's missing from the wiki
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16:19:17  <elho> i already partly fixed the formula in the wiki by adding effect of downhill vehicles (it only had uphill)
16:19:20  <VVG> Congratulations with 20k and new release!
16:19:23  <VVG> hi
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16:20:55  <Eddi|zuHause> elho: likely it's also missing the setting for slope steepness
16:21:05  <Eddi|zuHause> which is fairly new
16:21:15  <elho> Eddi|zuHause: plus the stuff before to calculate max_te :)   but as said, i first try to get my head around the maglev case. i just wondered, that if maybe te was a parameter that could be deduced from others, the wiki could still be correct. but it apparently is not.
16:21:49  <elho> Eddi|zuHause: yes it assumes the default, the 60 in there is 20*3% slope steepness
16:21:57  *** Progman [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:22:18  <elho> (and 20 * train_slope_steepness is what the source uses)
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16:22:56  <Eddi|zuHause> elho: TE is the resulting force derived from power and speed, max_te is the newgrf-derived value for wheel on track resistance
16:23:30  <Eddi|zuHause> elho: yes, the wiki uses *60, which equals 3% slope (the default value)
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16:24:57  <elho> i still wonder what articulated vehicles and poweredwagons exactly are, power and max_te calculations depend on these details...
16:24:59  <Eddi|zuHause> elho: the physics problem here is that TE may never exceed max_te
16:25:59  <elho> my guess is articulated vehicle == unpowered engine part, eg. a tender, poweredwagon == powered non-engine
16:26:05  <Eddi|zuHause> elho: that basically reduces to having multiple engines in the train
16:26:52  <Yexo> elho: an articulated vehicle is a vehicle with multiple parts
16:27:28  <Yexo> a powered wagon is a wagon that has some newgrf properties set so it gives extra hp to the front engine (or something like that)
16:27:32  <elho> yes, i grasp the real world idea of te. but i do not draw any conclusions from real life physics to game mechanics ;)
16:29:23  <Eddi|zuHause> there used to be a bug in here, don't know if that was addressed meanwihle: the fprce <= max_te check must be done for each engine individually, not for the whole train
16:30:25  <elho> from my perspective that won't be a bug, just a fact how the game works ;)
16:30:28  <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise you can add a high power low max_te engine and low power high max_te engine into one train, and they add up
16:30:38  <Eddi|zuHause> which is physicalic nonsense
16:33:54  <elho> Yexo: ok for poweredwagons, but articulated vehicles... i thought articulated vehicle and multihead engine were two different things?
16:34:21  <Yexo> they are, the parts of an articulated vehicle can't be split
16:34:53  <elho> ah. so that is also some newgfx special thing then?
16:35:15  <Yexo> there are no articulated vehicles in the default set
16:35:45  <elho> (except for generictramset, i never  used any newgfx stuff, just playing with the stock vehicles)
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16:38:24  <andythenorth> evening
16:38:37  <planetmaker> hi andythenorth
16:38:49  <andythenorth> how was the r20k party?
16:39:02  <elho> so a 3 vehicle engine would be three articulated vehicles with 1/3 power each, whereas a stock game 2 vehicle engine is 2 multihead vehicles with full power (as the game has a special case to divide multihead power by 2)
16:40:44  <Yexo> so a 3 vehicle engine would be three articulated vehicles with 1/3 power each <- I'd say it's one articulated vehicle with 2 extra parts, but that depends on the context
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16:44:33  <elho> the context i'm interested in would be in game representation in the linked list of Train objects (vehicles)
16:45:14  <Alberth> several trains, I think
16:45:22  <Yexo> in that caes indeed 3 vehicles (=Train objects)
16:45:46  <Alberth> hmm, I am wrong. Thanks for correcting me Yexo
16:46:11  <Yexo> didn't we say the same?
16:46:15  <elho> ok, seems i got it then :)
16:52:51  <Alberth> Doxygen says "'Train' is either a loco or a wagon. "   which is different than what I intended to say
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16:55:09  <elho> yeah, it actually is a single vehicle, despite the name. the same kind of misnomer that did not allow me to understand articulated vehicle in all consequence ;)
16:55:17  <fjb> andythenorth: It was a great party. We had a lot of fun and as much to eat.
16:55:23  <andythenorth> nice :)
16:57:44  <elho> Eddi|zuHause: regarding the physical nonsense: well it is a game no train design simulator and there is lots of unrealistic nonsense in the game i care more about ;)
16:59:24  <planetmaker> andythenorth: when there's a next one you should also join the party :-) was very much fun :-)
17:00:40  <elho> did you have a model railway at your party? ;P
17:01:43  <planetmaker> no and yes
17:01:51  <elho> in fact, you ought to hold such parties in that restaurant where the drinks and food is delivered by a model railway to the tables :D
17:02:09  <planetmaker> no: not sure anyone looked at. yes: there's the toy railway made from wood I played 20 years ago with
17:02:34  <elho> hehe
17:03:30  <elho> probably good noone looked at it, they'd still be telling you how to optimize your tracklayout from back then etc. *g*
17:10:43  <VVG> andythenorth: i have a few mines i montlhy deliver eng supplies to, but don't actually transport any production from. And they still increase their production.  Is that a normal behavior?
17:11:03  <andythenorth> VVG: currently yes.
17:11:11  <andythenorth> I don't think I'll bother to change that
17:18:55  * andythenorth concludes two things
17:19:19  <andythenorth> (1) I don't like the primary industry production decreases I've added to FIRS
17:19:36  <andythenorth> (2) industry closure behaviour really does suck.  My map is just about empty
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17:22:32  <peter1138> hurr, i should make a note of when industries close down...
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17:22:35  <peter1138> date: 2990
17:22:41  <peter1138> last serviced: 2464
17:22:50  <peter1138> so... 500 years
17:22:50  <peter1138> heh
17:23:38  <elho> its a fake operated by the mafia :P
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17:25:45  <peter1138> heh
17:25:52  <peter1138> hmm, autorenew failed
17:26:03  <peter1138> because the train couldn't get to all stations
17:26:11  <VVG> is there a limit of how many industry of the same type there can be on a map?
17:28:30  <elho> hmm, GetAcceleration() using speed in mph whereas most other places seem to use kph does not make things straight forward either :P
17:31:46  <planetmaker> [19:26]	<VVG>	is there a limit of how many industry of the same type there can be on a map? <-- the answer is a clear "maybe"
17:31:51  <planetmaker> or "depends"
17:32:16  <planetmaker> default industries are not limited - except by the total amount of industries
17:32:28  <planetmaker> newgrf industries may be limited, I guess
17:32:29  <glx> you can have a limit of 1 per town
17:32:43  * andythenorth needs to bite the bullet and figure out closure / production change parameters
17:32:47  <planetmaker> oh indeed :-)
17:32:54  <andythenorth> planetmaker ^ want to help
17:32:55  <andythenorth> ?
17:32:59  <planetmaker> I never have that setting on. Is it actually default, glx?
17:33:06  <glx> dunno
17:33:11  <planetmaker> hey andythenorth. Nice changelog to FIRS 0.2 :-)
17:33:13  <planetmaker> thanks
17:33:26  <andythenorth> I can do the closure varact 2 easy enough, it's the actual settings that need thought
17:33:36  <andythenorth> and how to provide them as simple parameters
17:33:53  <planetmaker> please elaborate :-)
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17:34:16  <planetmaker> you don't want them to close (at all?) or only more slowly?
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17:34:33  <planetmaker> Or close until there are XX / 512^2 at minimum
17:34:35  <planetmaker> or...?
17:34:54  <andythenorth> I'll make a list of desirable options
17:35:22  <planetmaker> maybe give them 100 years w/o service, then close
17:35:28  <planetmaker> or... hm
17:36:00  <planetmaker> @calc ln(2)
17:36:00  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Error: 'ln' is not a defined function.
17:36:15  <planetmaker> @calc log(0.5,2.7)
17:36:15  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: -0.697856474456
17:40:10  <planetmaker> @calc exp(-0.6978567/50)
17:40:10  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 0.986139815226
17:40:38  <planetmaker> andythenorth: 50% of the industries closing in 50 years means an annual closure probablility of 1.4%
17:41:07  <planetmaker> x = exp( ln(0.5) / years)
17:41:27  <andythenorth> controlling for that is *really* difficult
17:41:30  <planetmaker> actually... 1-x = ...
17:41:43  <planetmaker> andythenorth: monthly?
17:41:47  <planetmaker> random closure?
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17:42:07  <andythenorth> it should work as you described by law of large numbers
17:42:10  <planetmaker> dunno, is that possible?
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17:42:25  <andythenorth> but of course random is random :)
17:42:35  <andythenorth> meanwhile....
17:42:38  <planetmaker> andythenorth: and then you can activate a minimum left-over
17:42:49  <planetmaker> don't close, if last or 2nd last
17:42:50  <andythenorth> I'm trying to make a list of what options should be available to player
17:43:14  <planetmaker> only one concerning industry closures:
17:43:17  <planetmaker> speed :-)
17:43:28  <planetmaker> 0 = don't close
17:43:45  <planetmaker> value is in permille closure per year
17:43:59  <planetmaker> thus 14 would be close half in 50 years
17:44:19  <planetmaker> and define to keep the last industry
17:44:32  <planetmaker> if a player doesn't chose to service it, it may close
17:44:39  <planetmaker> (except last)
17:45:33  <planetmaker> the above formula is also easily modified to monthly closure callbacks
17:45:35  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r20002 /trunk/src/lang/ (traditional_chinese.txt turkish.txt unfinished/irish.txt):
17:45:35  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:35  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 13 changes by josesun
17:45:35  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: irish - 160 changes by tem
17:45:35  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: turkish - 12 changes by niw3
17:46:21  <planetmaker> maybe it's better given in 1/10000 then instead of 1/1000
17:46:46  <planetmaker> no need for exponential functions, just randomness ensures that :-)
17:47:53  <andythenorth> planetmaker:
17:48:06  <andythenorth> I need to figure out what parameter options players get and how they are set
17:48:42  <andythenorth> there is also some older thinking here:
17:49:09  <planetmaker> andythenorth: just half the probability, if only ENSP are supplied
17:49:35  <planetmaker> you'd have closure handled by the same thing then
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17:50:02  <andythenorth> hmm
17:50:17  <planetmaker> oh, mis-read production/closure
17:50:32  <planetmaker> but still it'd make sense :-)
17:51:00  <planetmaker> and production change chances with/out ENSP can be hard coded
17:51:35  <planetmaker> scenario mode might be a separate parameter as it then controls opening industries.
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17:52:34  <planetmaker> or... allow value -1 to the closure probability parameter: -1 then means: no closures, no openings --> effective scenario mode
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17:55:08  <andythenorth> planetmaker: maybe a separate param for scenario mode
17:55:18  <andythenorth> as there will also be secondary behaviour to consider
17:55:55  <andythenorth> is there any benefit to offering control over primary / secondary closure separately?
18:00:09  <planetmaker> possibly. But I wouldn't bother now
18:00:24  <planetmaker> *someone* *somewhen* will always find it good ;-)
18:00:40  <andythenorth> personally I dislike primary closure, but I'm fine with secondary closure
18:00:43  <andythenorth> ish
18:02:17  <VVG> i actually liked that a bunch of unserviced industries closed down, i couldn't to connect them all at start and now i can't keep up with newly opened :)
18:02:45  *** asilv [] has joined #openttd
18:03:14  <andythenorth> VVG: secondary or primary
18:03:15  <andythenorth> ?
18:03:46  *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:04:49  <andythenorth> what's better: one parameter with a complicated bit mask, or more parameters?
18:05:00  <VVG> primary, i try to have large stations at secondaries, so it is one of a kind of secondary i keep
18:05:01  <planetmaker> more
18:05:07  <VVG> more
18:05:14  <planetmaker> but depends upon "complicated"
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18:06:10  <VVG> calcutaling is harded than deciding on/off, so it is not dependant on defenition of complicated :)
18:06:15  <VVG> harder*
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18:10:50  <VVG> what is the maximum production of a mine?
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18:11:51  <argon> a proposal, make shared order a default behaviour when cloning vehicles, that would save so much time :)
18:13:03  <elho> argon: just press ctrl when cloning :)
18:13:23  <argon> hey that works? thanks!
18:13:24  <argon> :)
18:14:12  <elho> ctrl does good things to almost any action in the game ;)
18:14:52  <VVG> oh
18:14:57  <elho> see
18:14:58  <VVG> i actually have a proposal too
18:15:30  <VVG> make a new option at "manage list" dropdown menu -> "create vehicle group from current list"
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18:17:58  <argon> thanks elho :) that was going to be my next question, if it's in the wiki and if someone should add it, you're a mindreader
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18:18:34  <andythenorth> VVG: max production is something like 1080t or 2048t, I forget :)
18:19:21  <VVG> what should i look for in nfo if i decode FIRS grf to check it?
18:19:27  * elho just wished ctrl while building bridges would not build the last built but the latest available type
18:19:32  <andythenorth> magic
18:20:00  <andythenorth> VVG the chances of you working it out from FIRS code alone are low, unless you also understand the game's production logis
18:20:02  <andythenorth> logic /s
18:20:42  <andythenorth> however, you'll find the code much easier to read here, should you wish to try :)
18:20:42  <andythenorth>
18:20:44  <planetmaker> VVG: besides: if you can have the commented source code: why de-compile it?
18:20:54  <planetmaker> what andy says
18:21:15  <planetmaker> but then: I grant you: it's not easy...
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18:21:22  <planetmaker> <3 NML :-)
18:21:24  <andythenorth> VVG: for a coal mine, it's the same as the default game apparently
18:21:33  <andythenorth> I haven't set any production multiplier
18:23:10  <andythenorth> planetmaker:
18:26:36  <planetmaker> andythenorth: why a new issue for that? :-)
18:26:52  <andythenorth> the old parameter ticket got really baffling
18:27:30  <planetmaker> I'd make default=0, if somewhat sensible
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18:28:12  <planetmaker> that way if one wants to change only a particular parameter one can savely enter
18:28:16  <planetmaker> 0 0 0 myvalue
18:28:39  <andythenorth> yes
18:28:56  <andythenorth> all the things for value = 0 are what I'd choose as defaults
18:29:15  <andythenorth> maybe not all my personal preference
18:29:30  <planetmaker> and currently #3 and #4 seem like duplication to 90% extend
18:29:48  <andythenorth> you're correct
18:29:51  <andythenorth> hmm
18:30:11  <andythenorth> for param #3
18:30:16  <andythenorth> value 4 = no openings?
18:30:22  <planetmaker> then I'd actually code #3 as bit switch. And just ^
18:30:22  <andythenorth> and it's a map so add them up
18:30:34  <planetmaker> just don't tell it's a bit switch. Just give the value
18:30:36  <planetmaker> s
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18:31:02  <andythenorth> hmm
18:31:13  <planetmaker> but it might make internal handling easier :-)
18:31:15  * andythenorth doesn't understand the difference between bit switches and bit maps / masks
18:31:24  <planetmaker> andythenorth: there's none
18:31:30  <andythenorth> okey doket
18:31:33  <andythenorth> dokey /s
18:31:42  <planetmaker> a bit setting is a set of on/off-switches
18:31:47  <andythenorth> so we call those a bit switch or bit map
18:31:50  <planetmaker> and then you can mask-out the one you're interested in
18:31:59  <planetmaker> IIRC that's the same, yes
18:32:27  <andythenorth> So can we agree a term for something that isn't a bit switch, i.e. there is no addition - like radio buttons.
18:32:28  <planetmaker> actually... you mask-out everything else except what you're interested in ;-)
18:32:37  <andythenorth> e.g. economy
18:32:49  <planetmaker> that's a setting
18:32:54  <andythenorth> ok
18:32:58  <andythenorth> I'll amend the ticket
18:33:38  <planetmaker> well. a single bit-switch is also a setting... but only a boolean one. A setting which has 0...7 is... well... a normal setting :-)
18:34:52  <andythenorth> planetmaker: updated the ticket
18:35:01  <andythenorth> afk for a bit, but your thoughts would be useful :)
18:35:08  <andythenorth>
18:35:34  <VVG> hee. i though that maybe there is just simple to read and understand value of maximum production :)
18:36:39  <VVG> it's just i noticed one of mine coal mines have been at 1k production for sometime now without growing more, hence i wondered if i hit the maximum
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18:41:09  <planetmaker> quak! :-)
18:41:12  <frosch123> evening :)
18:41:14  <andythenorth> hi frosch123
18:41:16  <frosch123> everyone at home?
18:41:23  <frosch123> hello planetmaker, hello andythenorth
18:41:28  <planetmaker> Ammler and __ln__ won't be.
18:41:39  <planetmaker> dunno about Zuu
18:44:51  <Yexo> plural of aircraft is aircraft, right? (without s at the end)
18:45:19  <frosch123> yes
18:45:55  <Yexo> hello frosch123
18:45:56  <Yexo> and thanks
18:46:09  <frosch123> hmm, i should have answered "ye"
18:46:18  <frosch123> evening yexo :)
18:51:50  <fjb> Quak frosch123
18:52:05  <frosch123> moin fjb
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18:52:30  <frosch123> oh, i remember, i was instructed to extend the highlight rules
18:52:36  <planetmaker> :-D
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19:13:14  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r20003 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Feature [FS#3886]: [NewGRF] var 43 depot build date for railtypes
19:14:56  <planetmaker> yippieh! :-)
19:15:03  <planetmaker> pony for me
19:15:34  <planetmaker> is there a possibility by the user to toggle visibility of rail fences?
19:16:25  <planetmaker> hm, yes. full details
19:16:27  <Yexo> full detail I think
19:16:30  <Yexo> :)
19:16:32  <planetmaker> :-) thanks
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19:17:05  <planetmaker> I'm just toying the idea to change rail fences into hedges or something like that
19:17:18  <planetmaker> which would then possibly be of a higher height than fences
19:17:29  <planetmaker> thus it might be important to be able to switch them off
19:17:50  <Yexo> just make that another parameter for that to switch between fences/hedges
19:17:58  <Yexo> s/that//
19:17:59  <planetmaker> well. yes.
19:18:11  <planetmaker> but ingame on a MP server one might need it while building or so
19:18:34  <planetmaker> if there's a hedge covering the tracks, I'd like to see them dispite
19:18:38  <planetmaker> *despite
19:27:35  <peter1138> so are you making some rail types?
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19:31:48  <Yexo> peter1138: see
19:31:54  <planetmaker> yes, I do
19:32:08  <planetmaker> swedish rails on bananas
19:35:19  <elho> planetmaker: will fast trains in fall make the leaves come off the hedges when passing? ;P
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19:35:48  <planetmaker> elho: I cannot detect trains ;-)
19:36:09  <elho> yeah, just kidding :)
19:36:34  <planetmaker> but I try to just use the available options as good as possible
19:36:47  <planetmaker> Without changing the track properties that is.
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20:00:53  <planetmaker> peter1138: it's really a nice feature
20:01:05  <planetmaker> and it's quite fun considering the possibilities it gives
20:01:29  <planetmaker> especially these nice things like making them landscape aware...
20:01:45  <planetmaker> snowy depots, snowy fences... nice level crossings
20:02:05  <planetmaker> it just looks so much better
20:02:11  <elho> snow \o/
20:02:36  <peter1138> planetmaker, let me know what features need adding ;)
20:03:51  <elho> hmm, so a diagonal tile is 4/3 the distance to travel of a straight one, but space wise it is only half?  i must be missing something... :o
20:04:09  <peter1138> you're assuming physics etc applies :)
20:04:47  <elho> peter1138: not really. but maybe i'm wrong in assuming a connection between gfx and logics ;)
20:06:30  <planetmaker> peter1138: a link to the station gfx: has roof yes/no
20:06:44  <planetmaker> so that I can draw snowy tracks or not for stations
20:06:54  <planetmaker> snow under the roofs looks strange
20:07:02  <peter1138> no such flag :s
20:07:07  <planetmaker> I know
20:07:24  <planetmaker> :-) that's why it's a feature request ;-)
20:08:05  <planetmaker> with depots I can provide my own graphics where I over-paint the tracks with the depot graphics
20:08:10  <planetmaker> but with stations I cannot
20:08:56  <elho> but i'm failling to see the two vehicle on a straight tile thing
20:10:53  <elho> TrainLocoHandler calls TrainController once for every 192 speed on a straight tile resp. every 256 speed on a diagonal tile.
20:11:23  <elho> TrainController AIUI advances a vehicle one tile.
20:16:30  <elho> aha, GetNewVehiclePos only moves by one pixel. should have known logics in (former) commercial games are contrieved enough to suddenly factor in the gfx :P
20:17:15  <Rubidium> they're not moved by pixels
20:17:58  <Rubidium> tiles are just subdivided into a 16x16 grid on which a vehicle can be
20:18:28  <Rubidium> or actually the whole map has that "grid" for positioning vehicles
20:22:21  <__ln__> East Side Gallery [x], Fernsehturm [x], Alexanderplatz [x], U-bahn [x]
20:23:29  <planetmaker> nice :-)
20:23:42  <planetmaker> checkpoint charlie
20:23:48  <planetmaker> reichstag
20:23:55  <planetmaker> museumsinsel
20:24:09  <planetmaker> kreuzberg
20:24:49  <planetmaker> the latter is a matter of "sight seeing" vs. "getting a feeling how it looks off the beaten track"
20:25:33  <__ln__> i think my hostel is quite much in the kreuzberg area
20:26:17  <planetmaker> good :-)
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20:29:47  <planetmaker> walkd from "Unter den Linden through the Brandenburg gate to 'Straße des 17 Juli', through Tiergarten, past SiegersÀule to the KurfÃŒrstendamm
20:29:48  <planetmaker> "
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20:30:27  <elho> don't skip c-base ;)
20:30:57  <elho> Rubidium: i see. that subdiivision is TILE_SIZE which is != TILE_PIXELS :)
20:31:49  <elho> but then the comment "Get position information of a vehicle when moving one pixel in the direction it is facing" for GetNewVehiclePos() is misleading
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20:36:16  <Zuu> Good evening
20:36:23  <Alberth> hello
20:36:26  <Yexo> good evening Zuu
20:37:24  <Zuu> doh, irritated sweds on vacation are annoying. Had some of those on the train from Hamburg to copenhagen.
20:37:54  <Zuu> Thanks for a nice party :-)
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20:43:36  * Zuu wonders if there is any reason apart from comersial reasons why you on a 45 min ferry are not allowed to stay in the train, while it is perfectly fine on a over-night ferry.
20:44:18  <Rubidium> I'd say "safety"
20:44:45  <Rubidium> "safety" as in the train + ferry combination are not "certified" for having people on board of the train
20:44:51  <Zuu> Sure, it might be safer to be at the upper deck, but how is it more un-safe to be at the lower deck at one fery than the other.
20:45:30  <Zuu> Could be different certificated ferries/trains though.
20:46:55  <elho> with only a 45min ride, too few people would leave the train and buy stuff in the restaurant of the ferry if they were not forced to :P
20:52:29  <planetmaker> hey Zuu :-)
20:52:36  <fjb> Moin Zuu
20:54:47  <Zuu> hey pm, on the platform of the train I was going to take there arrived a direct train to Havover which I went on and took me to Hanover. No idea if it was the usual way or a detour as I haven't traveled there before. ^^
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20:56:30  <planetmaker> interesting. But it might have travelled via Hildesheim - the route taken alternatively
20:57:44  <Zuu> It said on the displays that the trains to hanover would be about 10-20 minutes delayed.
20:58:22  <planetmaker> yeah... that's the length of the detour :-)
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21:58:06  * Zuu suggests serving audigex a 3-4 year old cake
21:59:58  <Zuu> (in response to his r20k topic suggestion)
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22:05:50  <Wolf01> 'night
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