Log for #openttd on 21st June 2010:
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00:32:32  <nicfer> good night
00:33:05  <PeterT> night sir
00:34:55  <nicfer> has the game some shortcut for take/pay loans?
00:35:06  <PeterT> yes
00:35:18  <PeterT> hold ctrl when clicking on borrow/return loans
00:36:22  <nicfer> I mean, a keyboard shortcut
00:36:39  <nicfer> and I know about the borrow/return all trick
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00:42:33  <PeterT> not that I know of, nicfer
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02:16:03  <nicfer> is just me, or the random city creator should not put cities not too close each other?
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03:21:40  <De_Ghosty> stop adding so many city
03:21:42  <De_Ghosty> on a small map
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07:03:19  <dihedral> good morning ladies
07:08:35  <Goulp> Kiss man
07:12:17  <dihedral> Goulp: i think you nick looks pretty on ignore lists ^^
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08:09:38  <planetmaker> moin
08:10:07  <planetmaker> peter1138: concerning rail types: is it possible to allow also smooth snow transition under the (normal) rail track tiles?
08:10:40  <planetmaker> I know that it's somewhat limited by the free space in the map array. But maybe there's a way around that? :-)
08:11:29  <Eddi|zuHause> whole m7 is free for rail tiles ;)
08:14:35  <peter1138> well you can do it with maths
08:15:34  <planetmaker> well. But I thought the point of overlays would be to be exactly that: don't care about the ground
08:15:58  <peter1138> hmm, right, it's the ground that needs it
08:16:02  <planetmaker> thus I can't really without resorting to things which will look ugly one way or another
08:16:42  <planetmaker> I'm sure SmatZ has a patch to that end somewhere
08:16:54  <peter1138> probably
08:17:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i vaguely remember a screenshot showing snow transition on rail tiles
08:17:09  <peter1138> i know he did one that created new sprites automatically
08:17:16  <Eddi|zuHause> it was a while back, though
08:17:22  <peter1138> which was really quite ingenious
08:17:53  <planetmaker>
08:18:09  <planetmaker> he might have updated it recently, though
08:18:44  <peter1138> anyway
08:18:45  <planetmaker> I talked to him recently about this... but I don't recall the link he gave, whether this or another
08:19:10  <Eddi|zuHause> that's what you have logfiles for ;)
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09:13:15  <Ammler> good day all :-)
09:13:43  <peter1138> zomg, no newgrfs
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09:34:20  <fjb> Moin
09:34:55  <planetmaker> moin fjb
09:36:13  <dihedral> pm - how was the weekend? :-)
09:36:31  <Ammler> we missed you!
09:36:42  <Rubidium> without you :)
09:37:17  <planetmaker> ^ && ^^
09:37:42  <planetmaker> we had cake. We had fun. We had little sleep :-P
09:37:52  <dihedral> ^^
09:37:57  <dihedral> sounds good :-D
09:38:07  <Ammler> german weather is quite funny
09:38:19  <Ammler> like someone pushed fastforward
09:39:04  <planetmaker> :-)
09:39:20  <dihedral> lol
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09:59:29  <Eddi|zuHause> that's proof: everything is slower in switzerland :p
10:00:15  <Ammler> well, I prefer the sunny part to be slower :-P
10:06:05  <planetmaker> yeah, it was good that I got the tents :-)
10:14:11  * peter1138 ponders committing his service interval patch
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10:18:08  <Eddi|zuHause> grr... i have no clue how to do this... i tried everything: how do i set up a windows share for anonymous and password-free access?
10:18:16  <Eddi|zuHause> on windows
10:25:27  <FauxFaux> Turn on advanced and grant the "Everyone" group access to it.
10:25:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i tried that, doesn't work
10:25:55  <FauxFaux> Step 2: Panic.
10:26:03  <Eddi|zuHause> when i try to access it (from linux) it still asks for username and password
10:26:20  <FauxFaux> Did you try guest / no password?
10:26:30  <FauxFaux> smbclient is pretty shit.  It also has a -anon flag.
10:26:36  <FauxFaux> Or an anonymoose user.
10:27:18  <Eddi|zuHause> it used to work, but i moved the windows directory to another drive, and had to recreate the share
10:27:29  <Eddi|zuHause> since then it doesn't work anymore
10:27:34  <Eddi|zuHause> nothing changed on the linux side
10:28:05  <FauxFaux> Make it work from a Windows machine first so you know it's not smbclient being terrible?
10:30:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't have a suitible windows machine available without restarting...
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10:32:35  <Eddi|zuHause> it works for (some) other shares on the same computer, and on the windows side i can't see any differences
10:40:50  <Rubidium> I bet there is some setting somewhere in the registry
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11:15:13  <Rubidium> peter1138: what service interval patch are you talking about?
11:15:37  <peter1138> the patch i wrote the other day
11:16:28  * fjb wondered the same.
11:16:34  <Eddi|zuHause> feature request: notify if a vehicle missed its service interval more than twice
11:16:53  <Eddi|zuHause> [e.g. by not finding a depot]
11:16:58  <peter1138> adds a drop down item to the vehicle list windows to mass-set it
11:18:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. if (current date) - (last service date) > 2*(service interval)
11:18:35  <fjb> Service intervall by group?
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11:20:15  <Eddi|zuHause> or similar calculation if service interval is in reliability, not in month...
11:23:28  <peter1138> suggestion: code it
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11:24:27  <fjb> Why is the keep train length setting a company setting?
11:27:07  <Yexo> what other kind of setting should it be?
11:27:43  <Eddi|zuHause> a per-group-setting?
11:27:59  <Eddi|zuHause> with a company default?
11:32:22  <Eoin> FORZA DPR
11:33:37  <fjb> Like Eddi|zuHausesaid. You can even set it in the group menu.
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13:01:47  <Belugas> hello
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13:19:42  <fjb> Moin Belugas
13:24:51  * peter1138 wonders if perhaps we need a progress bar on start up
13:25:03  <peter1138> or some way to quickly cache the information that's scanned
13:25:38  <planetmaker> hm?
13:26:20  <peter1138> it's slow
13:26:35  <planetmaker> hm, moderately
13:26:35  <peter1138> at least, until it's all in disk cache
13:27:01  <Eddi|zuHause> it's starting to get _very_ slow
13:27:31  <fjb> It started faster two years ago.
13:27:39  <peter1138> it's fast when it's read them all once already
13:27:44  <peter1138> but first time... urgh
13:28:14  <Ammler> specially if you have the whole bananas content downloaded
13:28:46  <peter1138> 114MB :s
13:28:52  <peter1138> just for content_download/data
13:29:12  <peter1138> clearly i just need faster disks :p
13:29:15  <peter1138> hmm, now
13:29:22  <peter1138> which idiot introduced all this scanning?
13:29:52  <planetmaker> the question is: when do you want to do that?
13:29:58  <planetmaker> you need to do it at one stage
13:30:03  <peter1138> (oh yeah, that was me...)
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13:30:34  <peter1138> planetmaker, for instance, my music player doesn't rescan all music files every time it starts up
13:30:35  <planetmaker> but... if you know the base set(s) to use from the cfg, you might do the building of the file list in background even in a separate thread as it's then not time critical
13:30:40  <peter1138> but it doesn't know when things have changed
13:30:41  <planetmaker> but I might then have no idea :-)
13:30:55  <peter1138> planetmaker, yeah, i tried that
13:30:59  <peter1138> planetmaker, it doesn't work
13:31:02  <planetmaker> damn
13:31:05  <peter1138> first, you need to make the fileio system thread-safe
13:31:18  <peter1138> i've done that, but...
13:31:44  <peter1138> some things rely on the way it works currently
13:32:36  <peter1138> (more patches i have laying around ;))
13:33:39  <planetmaker> :-)
13:34:13  <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> but it doesn't know when things have changed <-- store filename, size and modification date in a special cache file, and rescan the file on accessing it?
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13:35:07  <Eddi|zuHause> that way, you only have to scan the directories on startup, not the files themselves
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13:35:25  <Eddi|zuHause> or only the new files
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13:36:09  <Eddi|zuHause> the cache file must be version safe
13:36:43  <Eddi|zuHause> for people who often switch between stable, nightly and branches/patches with a shared home-dir
13:37:15  <peter1138> heh
13:37:27  <peter1138> yes, filename & modification time is probably enough
13:58:59  <Rubidium> XML!
13:59:15  <planetmaker> html
13:59:17  <planetmaker> dgl
13:59:34  <Rubidium> html for data storage?
14:00:02  <Rubidium> no idea what dgl is though
14:00:12  <planetmaker> :-)
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14:03:25  <peter1138> could use sqlite ;p
14:03:57  <Rubidium> nah, better use MSSQL
14:04:04  <peter1138> yeah
14:05:00  <planetmaker> doesn't oracle have another, possibly more expensive one? ;-)
14:06:43  <Rubidium> it has at least two
14:07:42  <planetmaker> mysql and some other
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14:08:14  <Ammler> mÀh, annoying vuvuzelas
14:11:02  * peter1138 ponders trying to make another company on openttdcoop public server
14:11:05  * peter1138 mumbles about autoclean
14:12:09  <Ammler> yeah, we set autoclean_unprotected to 1
14:12:41  <Ammler> as they are quite likely missuesed from supid guys
14:12:57  <peter1138> i'm a stupid guY :(
14:13:35  <Ammler> hehe, you said that already 2 times today :-P
14:14:32  <peter1138> did i?
14:14:41  <Ammler> idiot and stupid
14:15:21  <Ammler> but the stupid quys are more those who use the rich unpassworded company to flat the whole map or such things
14:15:25  <Eddi|zuHause> <Ammler> mÀh, annoying vuvuzelas <-- some TV channels tried to filter out the vuvuzela sound
14:15:54  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: SwissTV seems to fail on that :-(
14:16:09  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not really effective
14:16:18  <Rubidium> it's too bad not enough people did tear open their trachea by using it
14:16:22  <peter1138> simple solution is to not watch silly men kicking a ball around
14:16:38  <Rubidium> although... as peter1138 suggested, not watching it is a better solution
14:16:49  <FauxFaux> Women's football, on the other hand.
14:17:00  <Ammler> I don't watch every game, else I would be used to it
14:17:04  <glx> <@peter1138> simple solution is to not watch silly men kicking a ball around <-- especially when they wear a blue shirt
14:17:14  <Eddi|zuHause> women who play football tend to look like men...
14:17:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see the fun there...
14:18:04  <glx> for rugby and handball, women are more violent than men
14:20:20  <peter1138> s/for rugby and handball, //
14:21:03  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: the vuvuzelas stay annoying even after 20 games...
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14:22:15  <Eddi|zuHause> so... openttd "needs" a name for almost a month now, why has nobody changed it yet?
14:22:53  <peter1138> it does need a name
14:22:56  <peter1138> it's got one
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14:24:11  <Eddi|zuHause> but there are these pressing concerns in there!
14:24:32  <peter1138> apparently we should be trying to increase market awareness
14:24:35  <peter1138> i'm not sure why
14:25:02  <orudge> we should call it OpenPeter1138.
14:28:11  <Rubidium> we should call it "move"
14:28:14  <Noldo_> yes!
14:30:34  <Belugas> I wonder what would happen if new name is found. Would everyone will stop playing since it's not a cool name?  Will there be no more new patches coming in?
14:34:13  <Belugas> willthe devs be sued over refusal to let users enjoy the game with a name that will appease their brain?
14:34:24  <Belugas> ...
14:34:32  <Belugas> gimme a fucking break...
14:34:48  <planetmaker> please ask your wife for that
14:35:40  <planetmaker> :-P
14:36:12  <Eddi|zuHause> how are people from chile called in english? chilese? chilenes?
14:36:32  <peter1138> chilean
14:39:45  <devilsadvocate> why does openttd need a new name?
14:40:04  <Eddi|zuHause> because it says so in the forum!!
14:40:23  <Belugas> because a dumb head thinks it would be more cool with a more flashing and brilliant name
14:41:37  <Belugas> by theway, scrolling in sourceforge makes me think there are so many un-attractive names there that the whole sourceforge project should die right away
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14:54:22  <Belugas> but Rubidium already said that in the thread
14:54:52  <aditsu> hi, I have 2 train tracks joining into 1, is there a way to make the trains go through faster? stopping and starting takes a long time, and they form long queues
14:55:34  <planetmaker> aditsu: improved track layout design
14:55:59  <planetmaker> check out the PublicServer archive and its game to possibly get ideas for solutions
14:57:29  <peter1138> use two lines :)
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14:58:09  <aditsu> planetmaker: anything more specific? :p
14:58:57  <planetmaker> aditsu: not really :-)
14:59:02  <planetmaker> It depends on what you want
14:59:20  <planetmaker> if one line shall have priority (e.g. main line), you could just build a priority
14:59:58  <Eddi|zuHause> you can build a line like ~~ to make the trains slow down, if they can't join the line right away
15:00:46  <aditsu> planetmaker: priority? how?
15:01:02  <aditsu> Eddi|zuHause: what do you mean?
15:01:04  <planetmaker> check out the openttdcoop wiki. Possibly also the openttd wiki explains them
15:02:03  <PeterT> aditsu:
15:04:58  <aditsu> hmm
15:05:28  <aditsu> anyway, I just had a crash..
15:06:19  <planetmaker> loaded a savegame from that page?
15:06:34  <planetmaker> which had industrial stations renewal?
15:07:31  <aditsu> planetmaker: no, I have no idea what to look at
15:07:42  <planetmaker> concerning what?
15:08:28  <planetmaker>
15:08:51  <aditsu> concerning what game to load
15:08:57  <aditsu> and why
15:09:23  <planetmaker> aditsu: whatever game. They all have different focus. But all will have somewhere solutions to your problem
15:11:36  <planetmaker> aditsu: we have built there many kinds of junctions. And you describe one of the problems usually to be solved in junctions. But each is different
15:11:46  <planetmaker> Try to get some inspiration and then experiment
15:11:48  <VVG> i remember there were one or two tutorial save games with signs explaining what's going on
15:11:57  <VVG> on ottdcoop wiki
15:13:00  <planetmaker> VVG: yeah. I don't know their quality anymore, though ;-)
15:14:41  <Ammler> The quality might be good, just a bit outdated ;-)
15:15:32  <Ammler> but for signals, Uwe's guide is quite nice
15:15:33  <VVG> well, at the time, they did help me to better understand what's going on in actual coop games, enormously
15:15:43  <VVG> Uwe's guide?
15:16:07  <Ammler> don't know the url search for "ttd signals uwe"
15:16:47  <VVG> google? or coop wiki?
15:17:00  <planetmaker> google
15:17:39  <Ammler>
15:18:21  <Ammler> 10 Swiss against 11 Chilens is like Swiss against Spain :-(
15:26:14  <Eddi|zuHause> Nkufo is a very swiss sounding name ;)
15:27:23  <Ammler> hehe, he doesn't also look that Swissish
15:28:31  <Eddi|zuHause> it's funny how the swiss team seems to only consist of defenders :p
15:28:52  <Eddi|zuHause> it's like the swiss army :p
15:29:21  <Ammler> well, they had to change the tactic because of the stupid refeerer
15:30:38  <Eddi|zuHause> more funny is that the chileans don't get anywhere through this defense :p
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15:31:52  <Ammler> the weakest player is the yellow one
15:31:59  <Eddi|zuHause> :)
15:32:10  <Eddi|zuHause> the swiss didn't pay enough :p
15:33:15  <Ammler> :'-(
15:33:28  <Eddi|zuHause> it was bound to happen somewhen...
15:34:38  <Ammler> yeah, well done, now we need play again, can't use the time anymore
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15:38:21  <Ammler> after some video anlysies, the goal was offsite
15:39:03  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but "video proof" is irrelevant
15:39:31  <Ammler> yeah, sadly, this refeerer teams just fails :-(
15:40:11  <Eddi|zuHause> one really should check this referee's cash flow :p
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15:53:50  <fjb> Quak frosch123
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15:55:59  <planetmaker> quak frosch123 && hello fjb
15:56:14  <fjb> Moin planetmaker
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15:58:59  <frosch123> hello planetmaker, hello fjb :)
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16:06:54  <Belugas> hello to those who attempted the 20000th party, by the way.  You lucky <CENSORED>
16:07:22  <frosch123> we did not do so many parties
16:07:46  <frosch123> hello belugas :)
16:08:24  <Belugas> but you met, and that's enough to trigger my jealousy big freaking time ;)
16:08:46  <planetmaker> with good reason :-P
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16:20:49  <peter1138> um
16:20:55  <peter1138> i just saw a C5 being driven around town
16:22:36  <Belugas> better than C4 blowing up the town ^_^
16:23:00  <peter1138> uhhh
16:23:04  <peter1138> yeah
16:23:10  <peter1138> but just as rare
16:23:49  <Belugas> i like This C5 :
16:24:00  <Belugas> but i think it's a bit photoshoped
16:24:03  <Belugas> big time
16:25:35  <peter1138> sinclair c5
16:27:13  <Belugas> ho... NICE!
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16:33:30  <SpComb> it has a shadow
16:37:55  <Goulp> planetmaker: do you plan to show us a picture of the beautifull r2000 cake ?
16:38:27  <Goulp> oups r20000 !
16:38:46  <planetmaker> no
16:38:46  <VVG> what coop guys do when they need to rebuild a station which is under heavy use?
16:38:58  <planetmaker> Goulp: I did already :-P
16:39:03  <Yexo> rebuild it bit by bit while it's in use
16:39:10  <Yexo> ^^ one of the most fun parts of playing the gam
16:39:16  <planetmaker> ^^
16:39:26  <VVG> also probably one of the tedious
16:39:48  <Goulp> i will search elsewhere than where there is the r1000 one
16:40:12  <planetmaker> Goulp: did you look at the r20k topic?
16:40:25  <planetmaker> might be the place to start :-P
16:42:40  <planetmaker> though it's called "r20000 party" or similar
16:43:56  <Goulp> yeap that's it.
16:44:49  <planetmaker> the first more colourful writing kinda baked away into nothingness ;-)
16:47:40  <Goulp> gloups, no Openttd screenshot on it...
16:50:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r20004 /trunk/src/newgrf_text.cpp: -Fix: [NewGRF] stringcodes 82, 83 and 84 weren't properly converted to openttd codes so they didn't work
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17:02:02  <PeterT> you should post the picture of the cake on like with the r10000
17:02:04  <PeterT> cake
17:06:14  <planetmaker> well... the r10k cake was more colourful :-)
17:06:23  <SpComb> maybe they nommed it before anyone managed to take a photo
17:06:52  <Belugas> SpComb, it's on forum :)
17:07:08  <Belugas> PeterT want it on openTTD's site as well
17:07:15  <PeterT> :-)
17:07:37  <SpComb> hmm
17:07:51  <Rubidium> but this pie wasn't a screenshot!
17:08:00  <SpComb> it's a little less colorful
17:08:07  <SpComb> is that raisins and some kind of nuts? :o
17:08:19  <Belugas> almonds, i'd say
17:08:20  <Belugas> miam
17:08:24  <frosch123> almond and honey
17:08:26  <PeterT> pecans?
17:08:39  <frosch123> very delicious
17:08:47  <Belugas> i believe you
17:08:52  <SpComb> just looks a little too brown
17:09:03  <PeterT> racist?
17:09:18  <Belugas> jealous, i'd say :)
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17:12:32  <Rubidium> yeah, and TrueBrain was in a hurry to get it eaten. Even though he already had cake that day...
17:13:04  <TrueBrain> hmmm
17:13:06  <TrueBrain> cake
17:13:47  <Rubidium> hmmm... dinner!
17:15:21  <PeterT> aww, come on planetmaker! the shot of the cake is JPG! :(
17:17:59  <glx> it's not a screenshot
17:18:29  <glx> jpg is not good for screenshots, but it's ok for photos
17:18:47  <PeterT> so can I submit it to
17:19:04  <Belugas> and it is shot by a Canon.  So it's good for JPG
17:19:07  <Belugas> buwhahahahah
17:19:45  <planetmaker> :-)
17:19:58  <planetmaker> PeterT: why?
17:20:12  <planetmaker> all people who receive were there anyway :-P
17:20:22  <PeterT> to add to screenshot list at
17:20:54  <Yexo> "screenshot list" <- it isn't a screenshot
17:21:08  <planetmaker> :-)
17:21:12  <planetmaker> it's a cake shot :-P
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17:22:55  <andythenorth> evening
17:23:07  <planetmaker> and I'm not particularily proud of that photo either, PeterT
17:23:21  <planetmaker> it's actually very boring and ill-composed
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17:23:38  <Belugas> hehehe
17:23:59  <PeterT> fine, fine :p
17:25:50  <Belugas> taking shots in a hurry is never a good thing ;)
17:26:37  <Rubidium> he had more than enough time to make photos of it
17:27:33  <Belugas> lol
17:27:41  <Belugas> OK then :)
17:27:45  <Belugas> booo you planetmaker!
17:28:35  <peter1138> urgh, too hot
17:28:44  <peter1138> building fruit cage :s
17:28:50  <planetmaker> he
17:28:57  <peter1138> and i've not got around to building a gate yet
17:29:09  <planetmaker> I was busy with the meat on the BBQ ;-)
17:32:09  <Rubidium> so, the BBQ wasn't started around 1200 UTC :)
17:32:26  <Ammler> [19:23] <planetmaker> it's actually very boring and ill-composed <-- there is a better shot with the cake :-)
17:32:38  <planetmaker> hehe
17:32:52  <Belugas> mmh... it' getting interesting :)
17:32:57  <planetmaker> yes, there is somewhat :-P
17:35:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r20005 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Enumify force_proceed.
17:36:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r20006 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Trains should also have running cost while slowing down for stop.
17:37:05  <frosch123> stockpile emptied :)
17:39:50  *** josef_1950 [] has joined #openttd
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17:40:20  <josef_1950> hallo
17:40:28  <josef_1950> ich bin neu
17:40:42  <PeterT> welkomen
17:40:44  <Yexo> hello josef_1950
17:40:53  <josef_1950> versuche seit paar tagen diese spiel spielen
17:40:58  <Yexo> this channel is (at least most of the time) english only
17:41:17  <PeterT> you've reached the limits of my knowledge of german - can you please switch to english?
17:41:22  <josef_1950> ich schpreche deutsch und polnisch
17:42:14  <josef_1950> gehts das oder nicht?
17:42:35  <josef_1950> am sorry
17:42:57  <Ammler> je parle français un peux
17:43:43  <glx> @topic add English only
17:43:43  *** DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.0.2 | Website: * (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | English only (glx)
17:43:48  <glx> stupid bot
17:43:55  <PeterT> you can disable that
17:43:57  <Ammler> :-)
17:44:11  <josef_1950> gudbay
17:44:12  <glx> @topic set 4 English only
17:44:12  *** DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.0.2 | Website: * (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | English only
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17:44:20  <PeterT> glx: do @config supybot.plugins.Topic.format $topic
17:44:43  * glx won't touch the config
17:45:05  <PeterT> trust me.
17:45:06  <PeterT> @config supybot.plugins.Topic.format
17:45:06  <DorpsGek> PeterT: $topic ($nick)
17:45:09  <PeterT> see ^
17:45:25  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r20007 /trunk/src/lang/ (korean.txt portuguese.txt unfinished/irish.txt):
17:45:25  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:25  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: irish - 19 changes by tem
17:45:25  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: korean - 1 changes by junho2813
17:45:25  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: portuguese - 12 changes by JayCity
17:45:48  <Fast2> josef_1950: Es gibt einen Deutschen Raum im EuIRC-Netzwerk (irc://, aber viel ist da nicht los.
17:46:09  <PeterT> Fast2: too late ;-)
17:46:15  <Fast2> Oh
17:47:03  <Belugas> too slow, Fast2
17:47:14  <PeterT> too slow, Belugas
17:47:42  <Belugas> PeterT, i was joking on the slow, fast ;)
17:47:49  <Belugas> gues i need more coffee, i'm not funny
17:48:10  <PeterT> Belugas: I only got the joke, after I had written my stupid comment
17:48:21  <Belugas> :)
17:49:47  <Rubidium> Belugas: but not more than 4 a day
17:50:57  * Belugas has already exceeded the limit
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18:15:57  <Wolf01> hello
18:16:25  <PeterT> evening, Wolf01
18:18:34  <planetmaker> hm... do I have more randomness available for a railtype tile than the 2 bits of pseudo-randomness?
18:19:43  <Rubidium> maybe the track bits or something? surrounding tile types?
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18:20:06  <Rubidium> but those are probably expensive to get and might change over time
18:20:53  <Wolf01> new features?
18:21:18  <planetmaker> The idea I toy around with are some variation on the visible track / the fences
18:21:31  <planetmaker> most should look alike, but some might show a bit different.
18:21:41  <planetmaker> like not a fence, but a low, small hedge instead
18:21:52  <planetmaker> thus 2 bits might be a bit too little.
18:22:04  <planetmaker> and it shouldn't be overly expensive. Rails can be abundant.
18:22:33  <planetmaker> Wolf01: not exactly new
18:22:40  <planetmaker> but not exactly much used so far either
18:23:00  <planetmaker> new only, if you mean something 6 months old is new ;-)
18:23:03  <frosch123> how many pseudorandom bits had the trees?
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18:24:50  <frosch123> looks like 4
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18:29:44  <planetmaker> the question is, can I access some global random numbers?
18:30:14  <planetmaker> like... randomaction2?
18:30:37  <frosch123> "global"?
18:30:37  <planetmaker> s/global//
18:30:43  <frosch123> :p
18:30:44  <planetmaker> :-)
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18:31:21  <planetmaker> in the sense that any action2 can access it. I've no idea about their use and when / where they are applicable and allowed
18:31:28  <planetmaker> That's why I'm asking so naively
18:31:46  <frosch123> i do not get it :)
18:31:49  <planetmaker> And I don't know a good example anywhere either
18:32:11  <planetmaker> ok. Aim: 5% of the rail tiles shall show not a fence, but a hedge.
18:32:20  <planetmaker> Are there means to do so?
18:32:32  <Rubidium> tileindex % 20
18:32:38  <planetmaker> :-)
18:33:14  <frosch123> tileindex is not accessible though :)
18:33:35  *** Guest570 is now known as z-MaTRiX
18:33:49  <z-MaTRiX> hi
18:34:07  <andythenorth> planetmaker: if I understand you correctly, the only random you'll get is the map seed - and that only if a kind dev makes it available to you
18:34:13  <frosch123> 	return GB(tmp, 0, 2); <- planetmaker: increase the two, and figure out how random it stays
18:34:24  <andythenorth> you'll also quickly want grf-local storage :P
18:34:41  <frosch123> it will be likely a bit non-random on small maps
18:35:00  <planetmaker> andythenorth: not sure whether that's sensible for rail tiles... but maybe :-P
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18:37:45  <planetmaker> hm... actually I got an idea:
18:38:03  <planetmaker> re-randomize and do that three times ;-)
18:38:20  <Zuu> New town window focus fix: fs#3891
18:38:24  <planetmaker> and only if it stays the same all times, something different than default is done ;-)
18:38:38  <planetmaker> @calc 4*4*4
18:38:38  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 64
18:38:43  <planetmaker> good enough ;-)
18:38:51  <frosch123> what? there is no rerandomisation
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18:39:15  <Yexo> the railtype 'random' bits depend only on the tileindex
18:39:40  <planetmaker> frosch123: --> random-triggers?
18:39:48  <planetmaker> I guess I don't understand that then
18:40:01  <frosch123> rerandomisation requires storing the bits in the map or some pool
18:40:10  <frosch123> for railtypes there would only be the map
18:40:13  <planetmaker> yep
18:40:19  <frosch123> but map for railtiles is quite troublesome :)
18:40:23  <planetmaker> :-)
18:40:27  <Yexo> planetmaker: see bottom of that page: "Rail tiles have 2 pseudo random bits, based on tile location. There are no triggers."
18:40:35  <planetmaker> doh
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18:41:08  <planetmaker> scrolling helps, I guess
18:45:07  <elho> you don't want it random per tile (as in wildly intermixed result for a track) anyway but some continuous function or sth.
18:49:08  <planetmaker> how do you know what I want? ;-)
18:49:28  <planetmaker> but yes, that'd make sense.
18:49:34  <planetmaker> but would be even more expensive
18:49:49  <Rubidium> crystal ball
18:49:52  <frosch123> greycode is quite non-random :)
18:50:10  <planetmaker> 'greycode'?
18:50:50  <frosch123> a sequence of numbers, where adjacent numbers only differ in one bit
18:51:00  <frosch123>
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18:54:52  <elho> planetmaker: i only claimed to know what you do not want. and that one was fairly obvious indeed ;)
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18:55:15  <planetmaker> :-)
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18:56:55  <planetmaker> interesting reading, frosch123
18:57:18  <frosch123> actually i did not know that it had nothing to do with the colour :p
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19:01:14  <planetmaker> :-)
19:04:28  <elho> you could peek into the terrain generator code of the map, the heightmap of a map is a twodimensional continous function, too. so if it is generated directly (instead of iterative random terraforming or sth.), that could serve as inspiration
19:05:34  <andythenorth> xy co-ord is also two-dimensional continuous :P
19:05:37  <andythenorth> try that :)
19:06:49  <andythenorth> planetmaker: TMWFTLB?
19:07:01  <andythenorth> although try telling me that when I have an idea in my head :P
19:07:07  *** GVV [~sdfkhksd@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:07:15  * frosch123 mumbles: if the topology of the image space is the initial topology, every function is continuous
19:08:11  <planetmaker> ^ that needs certainly more than one-time reading before it even starts to make little sense
19:08:37  <planetmaker> but then it somewhat sounds plausible
19:08:59  <planetmaker> but mathematicians like to fool physicists anyway ;-)
19:09:06  <elho> heh
19:09:17  <frosch123> hmm, actually, i messed it up :(
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19:09:43  <planetmaker> see! and I didn't even notice :-P
19:09:53  <planetmaker> guilty!
19:10:20  <planetmaker> andythenorth: yes, TMWFTLG
19:10:31  <planetmaker> other features in SER then first ;-)
19:11:55  * elho goes back to his experimental-physics approach to game mechanics and draws a second tile in its full 16x16 size on graph paper :P
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19:18:24  <Zuu> Hmm, I'm almost certain that I have dealt with getting the sign list window to remember the filter string if you close down the window but that is not in the version 35 that is the last one that I've uploaded.
19:18:36  <Zuu> Maybe it sits around on my other computer.
19:19:04  <Zuu> Or I decided that it is not necessary for this window.
19:19:22  <planetmaker> elho: you might just as well draw it digitally ;-)
19:20:34  <elho> i had to draw the lines that the graph papr already has. ;P
19:20:36  * andythenorth ponders writing some code or something
19:20:56  * andythenorth was playing a nice FIRS test game featuring Swedish houses :)
19:21:00  <andythenorth> but it's boring :|
19:21:09  <andythenorth> too many of my industries closed :(
19:21:09  <elho> i actually started out with an ascii art, but paper torks better for scribbling around :)
19:22:22  <elho>  andythenorth: that's a feature that could be taken from freeciv - switch to communism and all such nonsense stops ;P
19:23:12  <peter1138> your citizens are revolting!
19:24:16  <elho> thanks to communism putting some armoured vehicles in town shuts them up :P
19:25:07  <Hirundo> The 'armoured vehicles'-approach generally does not need communism to work well
19:26:50  <elho> in the freeciv case it does, iirc the maximum effect they have is 2 higher - or the maximum number that counts is 2 more, or something... been ages i last played that
19:27:56  * planetmaker would like smooth snow transition under rail tiles
19:28:01  <planetmaker> and a pony
19:28:05  <peter1138> and the moon
19:28:06  <peter1138> on a stick
19:28:10  <planetmaker> yup
19:31:12  <elho> how about snow on roads and vehicles leaving tracks behind? :P
19:33:09  * andythenorth once considered registering
19:33:17  <frosch123> someone should really remove all snow bits from the map array. that would make it far easier to add smooth transition for houses and rails
19:33:31  <planetmaker> indeed
19:33:31  <andythenorth> (for potential clients with unrealistic expectations)
19:33:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20008 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/tamil.txt: -Add: Tamil language stub
19:33:59  <planetmaker> frosch123: in principle they're really not needed IMHO
19:34:11  <planetmaker> it could always be globally calculated from the snow line height
19:34:21  <andythenorth> snow aware roads?
19:34:24  <frosch123> ok, who looks up wiki about tamil first?
19:34:35  <planetmaker> and then a transition region below it
19:34:46  <andythenorth> frosch123 sri lanka / south india
19:34:48  <planetmaker> ^
19:35:08  <planetmaker> no wiki needed :-)
19:35:19  <frosch123> planetmaker: the tileloop is periodically. you just need an array with 256 items holding the snowline height for tileindex % 256. you can adapt those heights during the tileloop.
19:35:43  <frosch123> the tiles only need to do min(ground density, destination snow density) for drawing
19:36:04  <planetmaker> or like that
19:36:17  <planetmaker> ideally it can be extended to newgrf climates ;-)
19:36:31  <planetmaker> like having a density stored there (2 bits?)
19:36:33  <planetmaker> on the tile
19:36:50  <planetmaker> and allow newgrfs to define the tile types (default = normal, rain forest, desert, snow)
19:37:11  <planetmaker> it'd then even allow for all-climate maps
19:39:33  <frosch123> at least one of us missed the point :)
19:39:41  <planetmaker> :-P
19:40:52  <frosch123> snow does not need map storage, it is a static think from the current snowlineheight with slight noise introduced by bulldozer actions
19:41:44  <planetmaker> yes
19:42:36  <planetmaker> thus that noise is sufficient.
19:45:45  <planetmaker> but shouldn't that allow freeing *some* bits?
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19:47:08  <frosch123> not really, but it allows stuff which is currently suppressed while snow is present
19:47:39  <frosch123> like rough/rocks below snow
19:48:15  <Yexo> there are no graphics for that, otherwise that's already possible
19:48:19  <frosch123> or smooth snow transition for bridges, rail/road (well, new rail at least), industries, houses, ...
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19:48:52  <frosch123> ah, yes, you changed that for clear tiles :)
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19:50:35  <planetmaker> the normal ground tile lists bare land and /snow as separate tile types
19:50:51  <planetmaker> a distinction which could be dropped, if snow just depends upon snow line height
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19:59:30  * andythenorth shudders at the thought of smooth snow for industries
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20:08:27  <PeterT> hai __ln__Berlin
20:12:06  <andythenorth> so how do I do parameters anyway?
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20:37:01  <frosch123> "MiniIN is now available on a three-times weekly multi-platform build."
20:41:22  <glx> someone resurrected it?
20:41:57  <frosch123> someone digged it, and i took a look at the first post :)
20:43:59  <frosch123> night
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20:57:04  <Belugas> byer
20:57:37  <PeterT> bye bye Belugas
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21:10:55  <Zuu> Hmm, sorting of sign list is not stable (in trunk)
21:11:43  <Zuu> Why has no cooper found this? :-p
21:13:56  <Zuu> okay, it is probably much easier to find out when you have the ability to highlight a specific sign, but even in case of multiple companies it is fairly noticable.
21:14:20  <Ammler> Zuu: define "stable" ;-)
21:14:21  <Zuu> "fairly" as in reproduceable if you want to do it. :-p
21:14:40  <Zuu> "stable" as in that they maintains their relative order.
21:14:41  <Ammler> it works quite well for what I used
21:15:15  <Zuu> Two signs having the same name should imho keep their relative order if a new sign is added.
21:16:49  <Zuu> Also closing + opening the sign list window will probably randomize the order of equally named signs in trunk.
21:17:31  <Zuu> Though that is possible more of a academic problem.
21:21:43  <Zuu> The unstableness of the sign orders could become an issue if/when the sign list patch gets merged.
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22:49:05  <fjb> Hm, how Du I replace an ai by another one? Wait till one gets banrupt and then use start_ai with the other ai?
22:49:40  <Yexo> you can use stop_ai <company_number> to remove an ai company from the game
22:49:59  <glx> then start_ai <ai_name>
22:52:05  <fjb> It will be bankrupt soon. I think I let it die in peace. :-)
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23:01:40  <fjb> Now the question is which AI to chose. Admiral_AI anoys me with the unconnectable stations. :-)
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23:05:35  <Wolf01> 'night
23:05:46  <PeterT> night!
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23:11:17  <fjb> Do the company numbers start at 0 or 1?
23:11:35  <PeterT> 1
23:12:33  <fjb> Good to know.
23:26:34  <Eddi|zuHause> [21.06.2010 21:34] <frosch123> ok, who looks up wiki about tamil first? <-- tamiles are a minority people in sri lanka. why would you need wikipedia for that?
23:27:36  <Eddi|zuHause> the "tamil tigers" were in the news fairly recently, because they ended a decade-long civil war there
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23:33:54  <Eddi|zuHause> "i'm on a seaweed diet."
23:34:03  <Eddi|zuHause> "i seaweed and i smoke it"
23:34:22  <fjb> Who reads the news? They are always bad.
23:34:48  <glx> no they are fun when french team is implied ;)
23:35:02  <Eddi|zuHause> haha :p
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