Log for #openttd on 22nd June 2010:
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00:03:41  <fjb> The French like frog's legs...
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05:04:03  <argotron> hello
05:06:11  <argotron> I would like to compile OpenTTD for Leopard and Snow Leopard Mac OS X, but I'm not sure what files to get by svn. I tried svn:// but it will compile the latest nightly build. I would like to compile the latest stable version.
05:26:41  <argotron> svn:// found it! :)
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06:05:52  <argotron> configure: error: no liblzo2 detected
06:06:00  <argotron> I just install it via macports
06:06:11  <argotron> I get the same behaviour on both 10.5 and 10.6
06:09:05  <DDR> The lib is installed, right?
06:09:31  <Rubidium> it's probably just installed somewhere unexpectedly
06:10:17  <Rubidium> I would ask the Mac OS X port maintainer to help you, but... there isn't one (which is probably the issue you've got as well)
06:12:19  <argotron> the lib is installed, yes
06:13:10  <argotron> well, where does OpenTTD configure looks for it?
06:13:47  <Rubidium> in /usr and /usr/local I guess
06:14:36  <peter1138> why don't we use pkg-config for these things?
06:14:38  <Rubidium> in any case, it looks in the same places as it looks for zlib (which is apparantly does find for you)
06:14:53  <Rubidium> peter1138: because pkg-config for liblzo2 is Debian specific
06:15:18  <argotron> yes, zlib is ok
06:15:30  <peter1138> oh right, lzo doesn't have a pc file (even on debian)
06:16:03  * peter1138 goes back to bed
06:17:13  <Rubidium> hmm, why do I see to remember liblzo2 having something pkg-config-y when it doesn't have it?
06:17:47  <argotron> is it ok to distribute MacOS X OpenTTD bundles on my website?
06:18:09  <peter1138> argotron, technically you need to distribute the source too
06:18:19  <argotron> no problem
06:18:24  <Rubidium> as long as you comply to the license
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06:18:39  <argotron> There will be links to the official website too
06:19:45  <argotron> well, it worked just fine with --without-liblzo2
06:19:59  * Rubidium wonders how long it takes before people complain about it being broken in some way
06:24:05  <argotron> RUbidium, thanks for OpenTTD. I haven't got the chance to chat with you before. Thanks a lot for you work, it's an amazing game
06:26:34  <Ammler> argotron: please make specially the changes from original sources to your sources verbose, for example link to original source and provide a patch.
06:27:03  <argotron> I haven't touch the sources
06:27:24  <argotron> I got them via svn, ./configure, make, make build
06:27:24  <Ammler> then a link to or whatever should be fine
06:27:35  <argotron> sure, will do
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06:37:35  <Mazur> And the search continues.
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06:58:55  <argotron> allright, here it is:
07:09:10  <Ammler> argotron: Does it need the link to the download of TTD beside openttd?
07:09:40  <argotron> I thought it is a good ideea for people who like TTD graphics better
07:09:46  <argotron> like me
07:09:52  <Ammler> as ttd isn't abandoned and therefore it is illegal
07:10:52  <argotron> oh
07:10:59  <Ammler> <-- 2nd point
07:11:08  <__ln__> one cannot implicitly "abandon" copyright anyway
07:12:19  <Ammler> (you could link to amazon for example)
07:13:31  <argotron> fixed it
07:14:28  <Ammler> I got a 404
07:15:19  <argotron> where? on main URL?
07:16:28  <Ammler> no, the osx bundle
07:18:00  <planetmaker> hm... are there no snowy fences possible also with railtypes?
07:18:27  <argotron> Ammler, sorry for that, my bad, it should work now
07:18:33  <argotron> thanks for pointing it out
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07:34:02  * Rubidium wonders why you're not making an universal build with PPC
07:35:14  <Rubidium> after all, all the OS X trouble started when they started using x86 instead of PPC
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07:41:05  <argotron> I tried making universal
07:41:20  <argotron> when linking, it gave me an error related to PPC
07:41:31  <argotron> it could not link, or something like that
07:42:13  <argotron> oh wait
07:42:18  <argotron> this was on Snow
07:42:25  <argotron> let me try it on Leopard
07:43:07  <Rubidium> probably macports doesn't give you support for that out of the box or something
07:43:18  <Rubidium> like not providing universal libraries
07:43:38  <Rubidium> interesting that you link against an unstable ICU though
07:44:03  <argotron> unstable ICU?
07:44:33  <argotron> I've just sudo port install icu
07:44:39  <Rubidium> yes, ICU 4.3 is the development version number for ICU 4.4
07:45:12  <planetmaker> macports by default only compiles libraries which match the current environment
07:45:21  <planetmaker> macports accepts as parameter UNIVERSAL:=1
07:45:30  <planetmaker> at least for some libraries.
07:45:41  <planetmaker> it has to be supported by the respective package
07:46:10  <planetmaker> but even then UNIVERSAL has a different meaning depending upon the SDK you build against.
07:46:20  <argotron> how about sudo port install lzo2 +universal ?
07:46:22  <planetmaker> e.g. on 10.6 it only means to build i386 and x64 libraries
07:46:33  <planetmaker> argotron: yes, that way
07:46:53  <planetmaker> as such a ppc build will need building at least against 10.5
07:47:08  <argotron> will try doing it now
07:47:33  <argotron> I'm no programmer, I'm just doing this for myself
07:47:34  <Rubidium> although for universal you should link against the 10.4u SDK/libraries
07:48:19  <argotron> and I thought sharing with anyone interested, though any help or input is greatly appreciated, since making a quality think is a top priority
07:49:14  <planetmaker> argotron: building a truely universal binary is unfortunately not quite straight forward
07:49:34  <Rubidium> then you're probably better of fixing the bugs than figuring out how to make a universal build :)
07:50:09  <argotron> I could report bugs, I have little knowledge on how to fix them :)
07:51:29  <Rubidium> oh, there are even more bugs than the ones already reported
07:51:32  <Rubidium> +?
07:52:38  <argotron> don't ask me, my previous OpenTTD worked flawlessly (Windows7, WindowsX, Leopard)
07:52:49  <argotron> I'm new to this dev part :)
07:53:10  <argotron> erm, WindowsXP that is
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07:56:32  * planetmaker wants snowy fences
07:56:34  <argotron> interesting, after sudo port install lzo2 +universal, ./configure --enable-universal works and don't spit out errors about lzo2
07:57:28  <planetmaker> you will fail to install libtimidi via this easy macports way
07:57:41  <planetmaker> or I just didn't find it
07:58:03  <argotron> currently make-ing
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08:01:09  <argotron> src/table/settings.h:660: warning: integer overflow in expression
08:01:22  <argotron> but keeps on going
08:02:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20009 /trunk/src/signs_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3893]: sign sorting was unstable
08:02:48  <argotron> well, I don't think it will work:
08:03:28  <Rubidium> what do you think those errors tell you?
08:04:22  <Rubidium> start as usual at the top because later errors/warnings can easily be caused by the cause of earlier errors/warnings
08:05:48  <argotron> I'll let it finish and then post the whole log
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08:13:10  <argotron> fail compiling an universal:
08:14:05  <Rubidium> could've told you it would completely fail
08:14:26  <Rubidium> your libicu library is not a universal library so it fails linking to it for PPC
08:15:20  <Rubidium> the settings.h:660 warning makes no sense to me
08:18:14  <Eddi|zuHause> there's 5 kinds of issues in there: 1) icu not universal, 2) zlib is duplicate, 3) warning in settings.cpp, 4) warnings in newgrf_debug, 5) warnings in smallmap_gui
08:18:33  <Eddi|zuHause> settings.h
08:19:02  <Rubidium> the last is broken compiler
08:19:32  <Rubidium> then one before that is pointless (or is the destructor called on exit()?)
08:22:09  <Rubidium> the one before that I've got no clue about; there doesn't seem to be that much math in that line (or the macro expression expanded line for that matter)
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08:39:42  <argotron> allright, website moved to
08:39:55  <argotron> hopefully, it will stay here
08:43:41  <peter1138> chrome[18833]: segfault at bbadbeef
08:43:43  <peter1138> hee
08:43:55  <SpComb> canary!
08:43:59  <FauxFaux> Derrr.
08:55:10  <Rubidium> were you reading about unicorn meat?
08:56:10  <peter1138> um
08:56:17  <peter1138> no
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09:36:38  <argotron> on Snow Leopard, are there any switches for x86_64 or i386 options, when compiling OpenTTD?
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10:33:35  <Rubidium> argotron: probably something with CFLAGS="-arch ..."
10:34:45  <argotron> allright
10:38:20  <planetmaker> argotron, most easy - if you only want one architecture is to use gcc_select
10:38:40  <planetmaker> ah, nvm. wrong answer of mine ;-)
10:38:51  <argotron> I would like to build it for both archs
10:38:57  <argotron> both 32 and 64 bits
10:39:40  <planetmaker> then just --enable-universal is sufficient
10:39:45  <planetmaker> if you're on 10.6
10:40:15  <planetmaker> you just have to make sure to have all required libraries also as i386 and x64 version present
10:40:28  <planetmaker> e.g. having installed them via macports with +universal on 10.6
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10:40:48  <argotron> I tried that, but it fails while trying to compile for PowerPC
10:41:08  <argotron> on 10.6, that is
10:41:48  <Rubidium> planetmaker: it will always try to make PPC binaries with --enable-universal and never 64 bits (for that you need --enable-universal=64)
10:41:58  <Rubidium> but then you're still going to need PPC stuff
10:45:33  <planetmaker> Rubidium, true. Thanks
10:45:34  <argotron> damn
10:45:41  <argotron> I'm trying to avoid PPC stuff
10:45:43  <planetmaker> forgot about that...
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11:17:35  <peter1138> yay, another chrome segfault
11:18:32  <fjb> Moin
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13:25:08  <Belugas> hello
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13:43:58  <fjb> Moin Belugas
13:44:21  <Belugas> yo yo jfb
13:44:25  <Belugas> ahrg
13:44:30  <Belugas> fjb
13:44:31  <Belugas> sorry
13:44:45  <Belugas> it's morning you have to be forgiving
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14:17:13  <fjb> :-)
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14:32:52  <Ammler> he, glx, looks like you got free time for coding ;-)
14:34:17  <Eddi|zuHause> south africa must win with at least 3 goals ahead, and in mex-uru one must lose, then south africa has chances to go on
14:34:49  <Ammler> yes, but if France loses, mex and uru will qualify
14:35:15  <Ammler> or shall I check the table again?
14:35:39  <Eddi|zuHause> they both have 2 points, and the others have both 5 points, i believe
14:36:11  <Eddi|zuHause> so it can be 8,5,5,2 then between the 5's the goal difference counts
14:36:14  <glx> mex and uru just need a draw
14:36:36  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, if they have a draw, it's 6,6,5,2
14:36:47  <Eddi|zuHause> or 6,6,3,3
14:36:54  <PeterT> glx: I think france will lose :p
14:37:10  <glx> of course they will :)
14:37:14  <Ammler> :-)
14:37:34  <PeterT> :-D
14:37:41  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: theoretically, they play against one of the weakest teams in the world cup
14:38:13  <PeterT> South Africa got another goal literally 5 seconds after you said that
14:38:14  <Ammler> but they are resistant against vuvuzelas ;-)
14:38:24  <PeterT> I HATE VUVUZELAS
14:38:34  <Rubidium> I doubt France will loose in the 90 minutes alotted
14:38:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: oh, so THAT's the plan :p
14:39:04  <Rubidium> or is the game already started?
14:39:14  <Ammler> yes, around 30 mins
14:39:15  <PeterT> Rubidium: yep, started 38 minutes ago ;-)
14:39:20  <Rubidium> and they didn't strike?
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14:39:41  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: france has 1 player less, because of red card
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14:39:58  <Eddi|zuHause> (which was, apparently, too hard)
14:40:37  <PeterT> too harsh, you mean?
14:40:45  <PeterT> I agree, it was only an elbow to the face
14:41:11  <Belugas> better that then a hockey stick, if you want my opinion ;)
14:41:29  <Belugas> then->than
14:41:31  <Belugas> i think
14:41:41  <PeterT> haha :-)
14:41:44  <Eddi|zuHause> correct, Belugas ;)
14:41:49  <glx> seems way more valid than Kaka explusion :)
14:41:58  <Eddi|zuHause> but don't they have helmets in hockey?
14:42:36  <PeterT> glx: Kaka got a red? how are they going to win against portugal then?
14:42:42  <Ammler> [16:39] <Eddi|zuHause> (which was, apparently, too hard) <-- many red "wrong" red cards already
14:42:42  <Belugas> yeah, but it's not enough. they should wear knight armor, those guys
14:44:10  <Belugas> in the mean time, i've got something to announce!
14:44:28  <PeterT> Uruguay scores!
14:44:39  <Belugas> today is the last day of school for my son before summer vacations!!
14:44:52  <Rubidium> Belugas: the horror! :)
14:44:54  <PeterT> Belugas: congratulations! what grade?
14:45:04  <Belugas> for my wife, yes ;)
14:45:23  <Belugas> in septembre, he'll be on 1st grade :)
14:45:33  <PeterT> so he just finished Kindergarten
14:45:38  <planetmaker> oh :-)
14:45:52  <planetmaker> he looks as old that I thought he'd already attend school
14:46:03  <planetmaker> will be sooo exciting for him ;-)
14:46:09  <Belugas> yup.  he's happy.  he'll be with the olds now ;)
14:46:16  <planetmaker> :-)
14:46:22  <PeterT> hehe :-)
14:46:24  <Belugas> planetmaker, he's the tallest of his level.
14:46:28  <planetmaker> As long as he's looking forward all is fine :-)
14:46:29  <Eddi|zuHause> there's always gonna be someone older :p
14:46:41  <Eddi|zuHause> and they tend to always be the same guys :p
14:46:42  <PeterT> well, I enter my first year of high school next year :-D
14:46:42  <Belugas> whihc, as i've seen, is a good argument for him to the an openttd dev soon:D
14:47:07  <Belugas> been tall.. that is..
14:48:07  <Belugas> PeterT, first year of high school? in US you mean? that makes you like a teenager?
14:48:50  <Ammler> hmm, what is that? 16?
14:48:50  <peter1138> he's a young whippersnapper
14:48:50  <Belugas> that must be an exciting moment.  I can't remember my own time, to be honest
14:48:50  <Eddi|zuHause> watching a game on mute with subtitles is funny :)
14:49:06  <Belugas> lol@peter
14:49:24  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: because the subtitles lag a lot?
14:49:26  <PeterT> Belugas: yes, in US. I'm going to be 15 and going into 9th grade :)
14:49:35  <Rubidium> telling what has been said half a minute ago or something?
14:50:05  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yeah, about like that...
14:50:37  <Belugas> yurk... here is my delivery ... 254 logs to analyse
14:50:41  <PeterT> I think in the US, teenager is from 13-20 or so
14:50:44  * Belugas is on another planet now
14:50:52  <Rubidium> Belugas: add 2 and you're done!
14:51:19  <Belugas> :S
14:51:28  <Belugas> good luck and good fun, PeterT
14:51:36  <Eddi|zuHause> what would be funny now if france now doesn't appear anymore, and south africa gets scored 5:0 ;)
14:51:42  <glx> only if log count is uint8
14:51:55  <PeterT> Belugas, thanks very much :)
14:52:28  <Rubidium> ofcourse it is
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15:20:20  <__ln__> Tegel is quite non-big to be an airport of a capital city of a big country
15:24:04  <Eddi|zuHause> west berlin kinda hat space-problems :p
15:24:16  <Eddi|zuHause> schönefeld in east berlin is bigger
15:25:18  <__ln__> and somewhere i read that they are building something new to replace tegel
15:25:19  <Eddi|zuHause> the second problem of tegel is, that it is not reachable by train
15:25:42  <__ln__> i was just about to say tegel doesn't have rail connection
15:25:58  <Eddi|zuHause> afair, they are expanding schönefeld into "berlin brandenburg international"
15:26:13  <__ln__> (not that any airport in finland would have, not even helsinki)
15:27:16  <Eddi|zuHause> many german airports have rail connection
15:28:29  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but... even Amsterdam's airport is directly reachable from Berlin by train
15:28:32  <Eddi|zuHause> there's an agreement that inner-german flight tickets are also valid on ICE trains on the same route
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15:30:22  <__ln__> of german airports i've flown to/from Hamburg, Bremen, MÃŒnchen, Hannover and Tegel, and only Tegel and Hamburg (at least back then) weren't connected by rail
15:33:03  <planetmaker> [17:26]	<__ln__>	[17:20:21] Tegel is quite non-big to be an airport of a capital city of a big country <-- Berlin has three airports. All together they add up :-)
15:33:40  <Eddi|zuHause> three? i thought they closed tempelhof?
15:34:48  <Eddi|zuHause> haha... "france shot a goal, that makes them better than 2002 in south korea and japan"
15:35:22  <planetmaker> Schönefeld, Tegel and Tempelhof
15:35:28  <planetmaker> yes, the latter is closed meanwhile
15:35:29  <__ln__> tempelhof runway was filled with people rollerskating, but they didn't have wings. nor proper lights.
15:35:39  <Eoin> lolololol south africa
15:37:09  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: tegel might be fairly small, but you can get totally lost when driving a car :p
15:38:45  <Eddi|zuHause> and you can only park 20 minutes for free, which is kinda bad when the arriving plane is 50 minutes late
15:39:28  <__ln__> that can be a problem
15:41:19  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: the free parking time is quite common for airports
15:41:41  <planetmaker> the parking fees seem to follow a 1/r law wrt to the entrance of the airports
15:41:58  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: maybe they should do it like Marseille station; it's 10 minutes, but they stay there for more than an hour without getting fined
15:42:32  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: you can stay longer, but each 10 minutes more is like 3€
15:42:46  <__ln__> i went to the Reichstag building before 10 o'clock this morning, but the line was already like 200 meters
15:42:46  <Eddi|zuHause> you have to pay on exit
15:43:05  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i never managed to get inside
15:43:10  <Rubidium> ah
15:43:13  <planetmaker> outch @ __ln__
15:44:22  <Eddi|zuHause> so... south africa has 6 more minutes to shoot 3 goals :p
15:46:24  <__ln__> that must be the so-called 'foot ball' you are talking about
15:46:51  <Eddi|zuHause> the finnish candy is great, but it's empty so fast
15:47:45  <__ln__> good to hear you liked it
15:48:30  <Eddi|zuHause> did you know that german is the only language where "Finnland" is written with two n?
15:49:04  <__ln__> i didn't know but i would have guessed so
15:49:25  <Eddi|zuHause> well, "important" language...
15:50:35  <__ln__> i assume Dumle is not available in germany despite the fact that the bag has text in german, czech and all other imaginable languages?
15:50:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i have never seen it
15:51:04  <Eddi|zuHause> but maybe i never looked
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15:51:51  <__ln__> i've also never seen it outside the nordic countries
15:52:49  <fjb> The finish candy is really great.
15:53:50  <__ln__> so, there's yet another reason for you both to visit finland
15:54:05  <Rubidium> it reminds me of "Chokotoff", although that's (much) harder
15:54:55  <__ln__> fjb: thanks again for the ride, btw
15:55:49  <fjb> No problem, the hotel was in my direction any way.
15:56:53  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Administr@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:57:26  <__ln__> uh oh, too much gprs data already, gotta go offline.
15:57:47  <__ln__> copenhagen airport out
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16:17:28  <Belugas> hoo... the frosch123 man!
16:17:33  <Belugas> welcome aboard
16:18:13  <frosch123> afternoon belugas :) evening everyone else
16:18:37  <Belugas> :)
16:19:40  <planetmaker> hello frosch123
16:21:57  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20010 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/chuvash.txt: -Add: Chuvash language stub
16:25:01  * frosch123 was never good at geography
16:26:56  <planetmaker> central Asia
16:27:46  <Belugas> ALL OVER THE WORLD!!!
16:30:09  <planetmaker> yes. true. By 34000 people outside of Chuvashia
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16:32:40  <Eddi|zuHause> what the heck is chuvashia?
16:32:52  <Eddi|zuHause> never heard of that place
16:33:00  <peter1138> sounds like a local village for local people
16:33:09  <frosch123> something between russia and turkey
16:34:56  <Eddi|zuHause> that is _in_ russia
16:35:22  <Hirundo>
16:35:34  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I wonder what Chuvashia is as well... it is said to be a republic but part of Russian
16:35:47  <Rubidium> s/n$//
16:35:54  <Eddi|zuHause> well, russia is a federal state
16:36:19  <Eddi|zuHause> so it's perfectly plausible that it consists of different republics with certain autonomous rights
16:36:23  <Rubidium> so Russia is like the EU?
16:37:25  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a little difficult to get it historically right...
16:38:03  <Eddi|zuHause> but even under communistic rule it was called a "federal republic"
16:38:33  <Eddi|zuHause> "russian socialistic federal soviet republic" -> "RSFSR"
16:39:52  <Eddi|zuHause> (and today it's called "Russian federation")
16:40:40  <Rubidium> so it's a bit of a special case
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16:44:30  <Eddi|zuHause> wikipedia says "republics" were created for non-russian people within russian territory
16:44:37  <Eddi|zuHause> other areas have less autonomy
16:45:19  <Eddi|zuHause>
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17:12:03  <Wolf01> hi
17:12:19  * Rubidium pre-emptively burries Wolf01
17:15:27  <fjb> Moin Wolf01
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17:45:22  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20011 /trunk/src/lang/ (indonesian.txt swedish.txt):
17:45:22  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:22  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: indonesian - 4 changes by adjayanto
17:45:22  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: swedish - 11 changes by tool
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18:08:22  *** Alberth is now known as Guest812
18:08:22  *** Alberth1 is now known as Alberth
18:10:28  <Belugas> welcome home sir Alberth
18:10:48  <Alberth> hello Belugas
18:13:52  <fjb> Hello Alberth
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18:14:16  <Alberth> it is a bit quiet here, it seems
18:14:22  <Alberth> hello fjb
18:14:40  <Belugas> quite :)
18:14:47  <Wolf01> hello Alberth
18:14:59  <Belugas> people are saying hello and just go silent :)
18:15:29  <Alberth> hmm, I should stop typing words here, then :)
18:15:36  <PeterT> hello fjb, Belugas, Wolf01, Alberth
18:15:37  * PeterT silent
18:17:19  <Alberth> anybody know how to convince hg that changes in line-endings are not real changes, and can be ignored safely?
18:18:36  <Eddi|zuHause>  -w --ignore-all-space     ignore white space when comparing lines?
18:20:09  <Belugas> hg... one day, i shold get on it...
18:20:35  <Alberth> today seems like a good day to me :)
18:21:12  <Belugas> hem... nope, i'm only halfway through my 254 logs uner investigation ;)
18:21:21  <Belugas> but thanks for the invitation hehehe
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18:46:28  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: I have the Win32text extension enabled  , and it makes a mess with a file that has different line endings
18:47:00  <Alberth> But they now also have EolExtension, I noticed, which seems very interesting
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19:06:30  <Ammler> Alberth:
19:07:14  <Ammler> dunno, if that is still up2date :-/
19:09:13  * Alberth does hard-core cli terminal usually
19:09:54  <Ammler> well, that is also for the console mercurial
19:11:06  <Ammler> tortoisehg is just a frontend, afaik
19:11:40  <Yexo> you can set all those options also in ~/.hgrc
19:13:31  <Ammler> tortoisehg is btw. also very nice on linux :-)
19:16:08  <Alberth> yes, but you cannot script clicking on a button, hence I prefer cli
19:17:25  <Alberth> Ammler: "... it's decided that only Unix style line endings should be used in  commits..." still holds?
19:17:26  <Alberth> if so, the docs/license.ptxt is broken.
19:17:51  <Ammler> Alberth: well, that was made for opengfx
19:17:51  <Alberth> (and it should be "it has been decided", I think, but that is another matter)
19:18:11  <Ammler> I think, it is generally up to the project managers :-)
19:18:19  <Alberth> oh, for swedishrails is that
19:18:34  <Ammler> but I guess, a good recommendation
19:18:46  <Alberth> I will ask pm when he returns :p
19:18:58  <Alberth> thanks for the info
19:19:17  <Ammler> we also found out, that the readme linebreaks at least for the releases should be windows
19:19:41  <Ammler> as linux can easy ignore \r but windows needs it
19:20:16  <Alberth> makes sense
19:20:24  <Ammler> but that should be done by unix2dos
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19:36:18  <Rubidium> s/windows/notepad/
19:36:42  <Alberth> exactly :)
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19:38:01  <Alberth> perhaps 'type' is also broken, but it is unlikely that any windows user would ever find that command :)
19:40:00  <Ammler> well, players usually don't have something else then notepad to read readme
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19:40:58  <Ammler> and you can't blame those to read the readme if it is only useable with proper reader
19:41:01  <Alberth> they also have wordpad then, but adding \r seems like a good idea to me for the win* users
19:41:14  *** z-MaTRiX [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:41:56  <Ammler> and for openttd, it is easy, they can customize the readme for plattform, we can't :-)
19:42:24  <Rubidium> Ammler: we can't either... it has \r if you're using wine when it wouldn't be needed
19:42:33  <Ammler> hehe :-P
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20:25:05  <andythenorth> evening
20:25:14  <andythenorth> anything happening?
20:27:45  <Rubidium> andythenorth: some andythenorth entity is asking whether anything is happening
20:29:03  <andythenorth> strange
20:29:14  <andythenorth> these are cute:
20:32:27  <Alberth> quite
20:32:53  <Eddi|zuHause> that's the RhÀtische Bahn, right?
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20:42:23  <__ln__> 10 HOME SWEET : 20 GOTO 10
20:44:54  <Ammler> RhB
20:45:05  <frosch123> hmm, yes, basic used colons for separating instructions. would not have remembered that
20:46:51  <glx> but the "20" is syntax error in this case IIRC
20:47:14  <__ln__> yes, probably, now that i think of it
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21:10:39  <Belugas> night, i
21:10:47  <Belugas> m runnning a way, tired and opissed
21:11:18  <Alberth> good night
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21:28:49  <SmatZ> @seen Zachanima
21:28:49  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Zachanima was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 22 hours, 10 minutes, and 26 seconds ago: <zachanima> that would be nothing less than swell
21:29:09  <SmatZ> he's gone :(
21:36:11  *** ajmiles [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:36:53  <PeterT> SmatZ: so?
21:40:34  <Wolf01> 'night
21:40:36  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
21:41:21  <PeterT> he could come back :-)
21:41:47  <__ln__> fjb: that's PeterT above
21:42:10  <PeterT> __ln__: ?
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21:43:07  <Yexo> __ln__: fjb only needed one line from PeterT yesterday to say "oh, that PeterT"
21:43:40  <PeterT> what are you guys talking about?
21:43:48  <__ln__> ah, i haven't read the backlog thoroughly enough
21:44:07  <fjb> __ln__: I know by now. :-)
21:44:28  <fjb> __ln__: But thank you.
21:46:43  <__ln__> btw, how many nationalities did we have... seven?
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21:48:28  <Yexo> german, dutch, swiss, czech, danish, swedish <- I only count 6
21:48:39  <__ln__> *cough*
21:48:55  <Yexo> ah, seven :)
21:48:58  <Yexo> finnish, right?
21:49:00  <__ln__> yeah
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22:15:04  <Nekomaster> Hey guys
22:17:18  *** Dreamxtreme [~Dreamxtre@] has joined #openttd
22:17:46  <Nekomaster> Anyone around?
22:18:17  <Yexo> please read the topic
22:19:41  *** Fuco [~dota.keys@] has joined #openttd
22:19:55  <Nekomaster> What topic?
22:20:05  <Yexo> of this channel
22:20:09  <Yexo> @topic get -2
22:20:09  <DorpsGek> Yexo: Don't ask to ask, just ask
22:20:15  <glx> @topic get 3
22:20:15  <DorpsGek> glx: Don't ask to ask, just ask
22:20:20  <Nekomaster> Whats that suppose to meen?
22:20:29  *** asilv [] has quit []
22:20:38  <Yexo> don't ask "anyone around?" first, just ask whatever you want to ask
22:20:45  <Yexo> it's utterly pointless
22:21:00  <Nekomaster> Well sorry for asking if theres people to talk to
22:21:10  *** TruePikachu [] has joined #openttd
22:21:39  <TruePikachu> I am having quite a lot of trouble with multiplayer
22:22:01  <Nekomaster> How so?
22:22:07  <TruePikachu> The only way I can connect to ANY multiplayer is directly on my loopback
22:22:12  <TruePikachu> (I am on Linux)
22:22:16  <Nekomaster> Ahh... hmm
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22:22:33  * Nekomaster wonders what a loopback is
22:22:38  <TruePikachu>
22:22:52  <TruePikachu> ^ that IP
22:22:57  <glx> you are the server?
22:22:57  <Nekomaster> Normally it should just work
22:23:12  <TruePikachu> I can't find any servers though.
22:23:15  <Nekomaster> unless you have some weird network configureation
22:23:19  <TruePikachu> glx, yes, I hosted
22:23:40  * Nekomaster is trying to make a Narrow Gauge Covered Hopper
22:23:47  <__ln__>
22:23:48  <glx> so it can be normal to not be able to connect to your server via the router
22:24:02  <TruePikachu> wlan0: [PC]->[Wireless Adapter]~>[Wireless Modem]->[WWW]
22:24:14  <glx> some routers are stupid and don't redirect inside to inside
22:24:31  <TruePikachu> The thing is that the server is only able to be seen on loopback, not even on LAN
22:24:51  <TruePikachu> This router works with inside->inside redirecting all the time
22:25:02  <TruePikachu> (it works correctly all the time)
22:25:04  <Yexo> is there something in the [server_bind_address] section in your config file?
22:25:11  *** fonsinchen [] has joined #openttd
22:25:16  <Yexo> and how are you starting your server?
22:25:16  <glx> I mean PC wants to access to PC via public IP
22:25:25  <glx> but router deny it
22:26:01  <TruePikachu> I start my server by in-game menu
22:26:18  <TruePikachu> [server_bind_addresses] is empty
22:26:35  <glx> you should be able to join local ip too if loopback works
22:27:13  <TruePikachu> My LAN IP is custom hostname wlan =
22:27:34  <TruePikachu> (so wlan is how the LAN sees me)
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22:27:59  <TruePikachu> remind me of the server port #
22:28:01  <glx> doesn't look like a private ip
22:28:06  <glx> @ports
22:28:06  <DorpsGek> glx: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
22:28:23  <TruePikachu> glx, ?
22:28:23  <Nekomaster> hmm
22:28:39  <TruePikachu> hostname is set in /etc/hosts
22:29:02  <TruePikachu> 192.168.0.*** is my LAN
22:29:31  <TruePikachu> This local IP is, subnet, broadcast
22:30:27  <TruePikachu> When I execute 'nmap -p3979 localhost', the port is open. A second instance of OpenTTD also finds it on localhost
22:31:10  <TruePikachu> When I execute 'nmap -p3979 wlan', the port is filtered. A second instance of OpenTTD decides it's offline
22:31:49  <glx> oh no router
22:32:14  <TruePikachu> I have a feeling that OpenTTD might only be looking at inet lo (which is loopback-only) rather than inet wlan0 (my wireless connection)
22:32:46  *** VVG [~sdfkhksd@] has joined #openttd
22:33:02  <VVG> hi
22:33:05  <TruePikachu> oh no router???
22:33:31  <glx> for me the weird thing is the ip of the PC
22:33:53  <TruePikachu> What makes you sure it's weird?
22:34:12  <TruePikachu> 192.168.***.*** is the standardized LAN for home networks
22:34:42  <TruePikachu> Businesses use 10.***.***.*** (I think)
22:35:34  <glx> <TruePikachu> This local IP is <-- so this is the public IP (modem one)
22:36:12  <TruePikachu> That is the public IP address.
22:36:34  <TruePikachu> The is the private IP address, only applying to the LAN
22:37:17  <TruePikachu> I can only see the server from loopback; not from the LAN, not from outside the LAN
22:37:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i suspect the network config is kinda wrong...
22:38:08  <Eddi|zuHause> your information sounds kinda contradicting
22:38:12  <TruePikachu> So do I, but it seems all correct to me.
22:38:29  <TruePikachu> ? what do you mean, for this contradicting?
22:39:16  <TruePikachu> *being contradicting
22:39:40  <Eddi|zuHause>  <TruePikachu> That is the public IP address.
22:39:41  <Eddi|zuHause>  <TruePikachu> The is the private IP address
22:39:54  <glx> unless it's a bridge connection
22:39:55  <Eddi|zuHause> this is a contradiction in my book
22:40:04  <glx> in that case there's no router
22:40:19  <glx> but via wifi that's strange
22:40:23  <TruePikachu> I never said that was the private IP address
22:40:49  <Eddi|zuHause> you did. it's right there...
22:40:52  <glx> can you reach your server via it's 192.168 ip ?
22:40:58  <TruePikachu> Yes.
22:41:20  <glx> ok then it's the usual stupid router not allowing you to reach public ip via inside
22:41:41  <TruePikachu> ?
22:41:46  <glx> and the "from outside" part is missing port redirections
22:42:13  <TruePikachu> No, I've forwarded 3979 to
22:42:24  <glx> that's wrong
22:42:35  <TruePikachu> And that doesn't explain why it can't be found from inside the network
22:42:36  <glx> you should forward to your 192.168
22:43:10  *** Nekomaster [] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
22:43:12  <TruePikachu> ... is my private IP address; it is my 192.168
22:43:48  <Eddi|zuHause> you're not making sense
22:44:20  <TruePikachu> For the record: Public IP:
22:44:29  <TruePikachu> Private IP:
22:44:36  <glx> impossible
22:44:51  <glx> else you don't have a router
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22:45:08  <TruePikachu> ???what do you mean 'I don't have a router'
22:45:20  <Yexo> a switch is not a router
22:45:32  <glx> it's wifi
22:45:35  <Yexo> ehm, hub
22:46:12  <glx> if it's wifi there's a router, and private ip can't be public ip
22:46:16  <TruePikachu> The modem is located in my home, connected to my cable line.
22:46:34  <TruePikachu> The modem has a wireless antenna and 4 LAN ports on it
22:46:44  <glx> so it's a modem router
22:46:45  <TruePikachu> I am connected to it through the wireless
22:46:52  <TruePikachu> YES!!!
22:47:11  <glx> then private ip can't be
22:47:23  <TruePikachu> It isn't
22:47:32  <TruePikachu> 15:42 < TruePikachu> For the record: Public IP:
22:47:32  <TruePikachu> 15:43 < TruePikachu> Private IP:
22:48:01  <glx> you just repeated it was
22:48:03  <bryjen> the should be the address on the "public" side of the modem/router.  the PCs on the "private" side should all have addresses starting 192.168.
22:48:11  <fjb> Public and private look the same for me, which is noct possible.
22:48:51  <TruePikachu> Is glx a troll?
22:48:57  <bryjen> are you?
22:49:00  <TruePikachu> no
22:49:02  <Yexo> no, glx is actually trying to help you
22:49:13  <Yexo> your public and private ip can't be the same if you have a router
22:49:15  <Eddi|zuHause> [23.06.2010 00:47] <TruePikachu> 15:42 < TruePikachu> For the record: Public IP:
22:49:16  <Eddi|zuHause> [23.06.2010 00:47] <TruePikachu> 15:43 < TruePikachu> Private IP:
22:49:32  <bryjen> we're seeing you type the same address for public and private
22:49:33  <Eddi|zuHause> that's what you said
22:49:36  <Yexo> and you keep telling us it is
22:49:38  <Eddi|zuHause> and that is not possible
22:49:41  <TruePikachu> Gosh, wait a moment...
22:49:42  <Yexo> so you are making an error somewhere
22:49:53  <bryjen> that's some intrusive NAT fixing up addresses in IRC traffic ;)
22:50:01  <Yexo> lol
22:50:21  <TruePikachu> I need an image pastebin which does not require registration
22:50:41  <fjb> What does ifconfig tell you?
22:50:55  <TruePikachu> I need a pastebin
22:51:08  <Yexo>
22:51:13  <Eddi|zuHause> the NAT screwing up the packets might very well also prevent any kind of connection to openttd servers
22:51:18  <fjb> and
22:51:34  <fjb> Or what Yexo told you. :-)
22:51:52  <Eddi|zuHause> so you should urgently turn off that packet mangling mode in your modem
22:52:50  <TruePikachu> Something is causing problems:
22:53:11  <glx> clearly
22:53:12  <fjb> But turning off ANT could kill his irc connection. On the other hand...
22:53:20  <bryjen> holy carp.  I was only joking...
22:53:40  <TruePikachu> So I am not trying to troll
22:53:49  <TruePikachu> I posted the screenshot from IRC in
22:53:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i have heard fairy tales about such a router mode, but i have never seen it in action
22:54:15  <glx> first time I see something like that
22:54:21  <fjb> Oh, it mangles every string which contains the private network. That is crappy.
22:54:24  <bryjen> possibly to make DCC work?
22:54:51  <TruePikachu> IRSSI has support for DCC, but I'll need explicite commands to type
22:54:53  <fjb> Even then it is crappy.
22:54:54  <Yexo> with a router messing up things like that all bets are off
22:55:16  <Eddi|zuHause> TruePikachu: you need to read your router manual, how to turn off this modification
22:55:29  <Eddi|zuHause> else we won't be able to help you in any way
22:55:48  <TruePikachu> Explain the modification
22:55:50  <bryjen> no, I meant your router is re-writing the IP addresses in your IRC traffic possibly to help with DCC
22:56:20  <Eddi|zuHause> TruePikachu: your router is checking all outgoing packets, and replaces anything that looks like an internal IP with an external one
22:56:47  <Eddi|zuHause> TruePikachu: this will also mangle packets sent by the openttd server, so they become invalid (and dropped), so connections will fail
22:56:48  <fjb> But something doing that is just another piece of hazadous waste.
22:56:50  <TruePikachu> Either that, or IRSSI is, or the IRC network is
22:57:22  *** bryjen [~bryjen@] has quit [Quit: Quit]
22:57:33  <glx> anyway you probably won't be able to reach your pc using the public ip from the inside (some routers are stupid), but with the right redirection configuration people from outside should be able to reach it
22:58:19  <fjb> Make an upöoad to a text bin which contains your locval address. Then we se if it is the the router or irssi.
22:58:26  <TruePikachu> Well, the router thinks the port is closed
22:59:09  <TruePikachu> Can someone here type the standard 'default gateway'?
22:59:30  <FauxFaux> default gateway
22:59:30  <planetmaker> like 'default gateway' ? ;-)
22:59:53  <TruePikachu> one nine two dot one six eight dot one dot one
22:59:55  <glx> it's usually the router private ip
23:00:02  <TruePikachu> ^ in the real way
23:00:15  <glx> for mine
23:00:29  *** Illegal_Alien [] has quit [Quit:  Try HydraIRC -> <-]
23:00:42  <TruePikachu> seen
23:00:48  <TruePikachu> does that work here?
23:00:53  <TruePikachu> (bot command)
23:00:59  <Eddi|zuHause> no
23:01:15  <TruePikachu> I need a bot command that echos
23:01:18  *** fonsinchen [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:01:26  <glx> @say test
23:01:26  <DorpsGek> test
23:01:33  <TruePikachu> @say
23:01:33  <DorpsGek> TruePikachu: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
23:01:49  <glx> [01:01:37] <TruePikachu> @say
23:01:53  <glx> looks better
23:02:01  <TruePikachu> well, I didn't change anything
23:02:07  <glx> that's weird
23:02:26  <TruePikachu> @say
23:02:26  <DorpsGek> TruePikachu: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
23:02:33  <glx> [01:02:30] <TruePikachu> @say
23:02:45  *** ^Spike^ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:02:55  <TruePikachu> So something (most likely IRSSI) is replacing with my external
23:02:56  <planetmaker> you're doing a great job as manual echo, glx ;-)
23:03:25  * fjb needs a glx for the scrips.
23:03:46  <glx> try an ip in the local range which is not yours, nor the gateway
23:04:07  <TruePikachu> ?
23:04:10  <TruePikachu> for what?
23:04:16  *** Polygon [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:04:46  <glx> to try to find the "rewriter"
23:05:05  * TruePikachu just googled his private IP, searched properly
23:05:12  *** Lakie [~Lakie@] has quit [Quit: Sleep.]
23:06:28  <glx> like .248
23:06:30  <fjb> Just say
23:07:03  <TruePikachu> Uh, .20 is my DS
23:07:19  <glx> just type the ip
23:07:27  <TruePikachu>
23:07:39  <glx> ok then the rewriter is on your pc
23:07:40  <fjb> That was not mangled.
23:07:48  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it skips http (port 80) connections
23:08:02  <Eddi|zuHause> so google will work
23:08:13  <TruePikachu> one moment...
23:08:23  <TruePikachu> brb
23:08:25  *** TruePikachu [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
23:08:27  <Eddi|zuHause> try making an SSL connection to this network ;)
23:09:37  <fjb> Something really weird is going on there.
23:13:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly sure it's a router setting
23:18:46  <fjb> Hm, connection lost?
23:21:52  *** TruePikachu [] has joined #openttd
23:22:32  <TruePikachu> It is definitly with my modem or Linux, as KSirc does it too...
23:23:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly sure it's the modem
23:23:16  <Eddi|zuHause> might be called "gaming mode" or something
23:24:16  <TruePikachu> Oh well, the problem is with the connection and servers, NOT with IRC
23:24:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm also fairly sure that both are effects of the same problem
23:25:24  <fjb> Apropos gaming, the Killer nic is back. Wonder how many people will by the new version.
23:26:40  <TruePikachu> Well, this is a Netgear CG184WG
23:27:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't care what it's called... YOU have the manual to the thing...
23:27:09  <Eddi|zuHause> only you can fix it...
23:27:52  <TruePikachu> Actually, Time Warner has the manual
23:28:20  <fjb> First line of first hit on google for that router: "I'm using a Netgear CG184WG (yes, the notorious one)..."
23:29:04  <TruePikachu> Most problems are for ComCast users
23:29:59  <TruePikachu> Anyway, my Wii works with the modem correctly, so that is the wrong place to look :P
23:30:45  <Eddi|zuHause> if you won't take our advise, why bother asking at all?!?
23:30:49  <fjb> Hm, it didn't look like it works correctly a few line above.
23:31:19  *** Chrill [] has quit []
23:31:21  <PeterT> <TruePikachu> seen<TruePikachu> does that work here?<TruePikachu> (bot command)<Eddi|zuHause> no <-- yes it does, try @seen
23:32:21  <TruePikachu> ?
23:32:35  <PeterT> You asked about the seen command?
23:32:41  <PeterT> @help seen
23:32:41  <DorpsGek> PeterT: (seen [<channel>] <nick>) -- Returns the last time <nick> was seen and what <nick> was last seen saying. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself.
23:32:44  <TruePikachu> no
23:32:45  <glx> PeterT: not important
23:32:55  <PeterT> glx: ok, sorry
23:32:58  <TruePikachu> fjb: ?
23:34:27  <fjb> It mangles your private IP number. I wold not call that correctly working.
23:35:44  <TruePikachu> ...I'm not on my Wii, I'm on my Linux PC
23:35:45  <glx> and all google results are about something not working
23:36:24  <TruePikachu> Should I drive 12 volts backwords into it so we can get a replacement?
23:36:30  <TruePikachu> *backwards
23:36:57  <TruePikachu> It is rated for 9 volts
23:37:18  <fjb> Simply buy a better one.
23:37:20  <TruePikachu> Time Warner never listens to the tech problems we have
23:37:22  <Eddi|zuHause> you should START TO LISTEN! and READ THE MANUAL
23:37:33  <TruePikachu> I have no manual
23:37:55  <TruePikachu> fjb, the modem MUST be supplied by them
23:38:10  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a router. it has a configuration. you need to change the settings there...
23:38:24  <TruePikachu> I've tried, to no avail.
23:38:32  <TruePikachu> I'm even using SUPERUSER
23:38:54  <fjb> Why must it be supplied by Time Warner?
23:39:09  <fjb> If you destroy it you wil get the same model again.
23:39:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm out...
23:39:50  <Eddi|zuHause> this is not leading anywhere...
23:40:00  * TruePikachu hates this modem, as it has mainly just caused problems
23:40:12  <TruePikachu> It always turns itself off, for one...
23:40:54  <TruePikachu> And the modem has to have a valid ID programmed into it for Time Warner to work with it
23:41:55  <TruePikachu> Also, don't get me started with the WG111V2 wireless adapter I am having trouble using that they supplied as well
23:42:58  <glx> your ISP is probably one of the "internet is http only" one
23:43:31  <TruePikachu> As in that's what their techs think?
23:44:23  <fjb> Time Warner... what do you expect?
23:44:49  <TruePikachu> Well, we can't change our ISP
23:45:02  <glx> we have that kind of "internet" for mobile phone here
23:45:15  <glx> if you want mail it's an option
23:45:34  <glx> and orange even removed google apps from android phones
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23:45:43  <TruePikachu> Still, why would the modem mangle the IP?
23:45:46  <glx> (because it's mail via http)
23:46:13  <glx> and they want to sell pop/imap options
23:46:33  <fjb> It is a broken kind of NAT.
23:47:28  <glx> or it expects the "server" to ask it to open ports
23:47:48  <TruePikachu> Should I try dropping a line to TW?
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23:50:25  <fjb> Time Warner usually tell you what to think and do and does not ask what you want to do.
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23:52:17  <Eddi|zuHause> it can only be in the router, because that's the only thing having both the internal and external IP
23:53:05  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: He told you it is not the router. He knows better then we all here.
23:54:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i never imagined saying this again... "AOL user"...
23:56:50  <TruePikachu> ...I never said that
23:57:02  <TruePikachu> And I don't use AOL
23:57:10  *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2]
23:57:30  * fjb prefers TrueBrains over TruePikachus...
23:59:28  *** Anderus [] has joined #openttd
23:59:30  <Eddi|zuHause> it's totally funny how the people at the forum always know that things are "easy to implement"
23:59:51  <Anderus> i'm locked out of my company, i think i made the pw too long
23:59:54  <Eddi|zuHause> like the totally trivial task of "multi track depots"

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