Log for #openttd on 2nd July 2010:
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00:10:44  <kamnet> Does anybody know what the status of NewObjects for OTTD is?
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00:13:11  <planetmaker> yes
00:14:29  <andythenorth> no
00:14:34  <andythenorth> is it a riddle?
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00:14:55  <andythenorth_should_sleep> kamnet: it's not done
00:15:03  <andythenorth_should_sleep> I asked Belugas about it the other day
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00:21:04  <kamnet> Trying to decide if I should go ahed and build a station tile set or just wait for new objects, which seems to be the more appropriate path for what I"m envisioning
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00:25:32  <Mazur> Hop.
00:27:20  <planetmaker> kamnet: as I don't know anyone who's currently seriously coding it, I wouldn't hold my breath for a quick implementation of it
00:27:42  * Mazur has several ideas to be coded.
00:27:53  <planetmaker> of course I don't know all activity, and especially core devs activity may suddenly show with surprising things :-)
00:28:23  <Mazur> 1. Speed/running costs.
00:29:15  <Mazur> 2. Spaced out timetable.
00:29:15  <kamnet> I wish I had more of a mind for coding. NewObjects looks like a great expansion idea
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00:30:00  <Mazur> I hate it I wentr blank when OO coding came along,
00:31:04  <Mazur> 3. Fully debugged PF.
00:32:15  <Mazur> 4. Rail maintenance/upgrade engine+wagons.
00:32:41  <Mazur> Including from planned track to actual track.
00:33:08  <kamnet> Hey planetmaker, here's a thought - if I'm only going to be using sprites from OpenGFX, is there a way I can reference the OpenGFX sprites from a seperate NewGRF?
00:33:54  <planetmaker> not that I know. You would need to include them (again).
00:34:05  <planetmaker> But then... I *think* the alpine newgrf does just that
00:34:13  <planetmaker> so there might be a way, but I don't know how
00:34:43  <planetmaker> mind, though: it will fail then with the TTD base set. As such: better include the sprites again yourself
00:34:46  <kamnet> Figured there's no need in duplicating things if it's not necessary.
00:35:24  <kamnet> This is true - but I also don't want to mix OTTD style graphics w/ TTD graphics
00:35:25  <planetmaker> base sets also vary between versions... hm... ECS also does the same. So: there's a way
00:35:55  <kamnet> er, OpenGFX graphics w/ TTD grphics, even
00:35:59  <planetmaker> You need to consult the newgrf wiki how. Or look at the ECS forest which re-uses the trees
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00:53:13  <kamnet> OK I looked thru ECS forest, didn't see anything. Maybe I'll go make a post on the forums and see if anybody knows
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03:48:12  <ccfreak2k> Why is the jet airplane sound so loud in OpenSFX?
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04:49:55  <SmatZ> morning
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07:26:54  <planetmaker> moin
07:31:50  <SmatZ> hello planetmaker
07:36:08  <planetmaker> :-) moin SmatZ
07:36:53  <planetmaker> hm... do by any chance know why the name string is limited (possibly by network package constraints) in size?
07:37:00  <planetmaker> or where I should look?
07:37:31  <SmatZ> most of those limits are artificial
07:38:00  <SmatZ> but lenght of company or client name can have something to do with packet size
07:38:08  <planetmaker> I don't like the useless debug-messages, if I create a branch ;-)
07:38:17  <planetmaker> I meant mostly the version string :-)
07:39:03  <SmatZ> I suppose it's encoded at more places
07:39:24  <SmatZ> like, master server
07:39:36  <SmatZ> I wonder what it does with a server with too long revision string
07:39:45  <planetmaker> like OpenTTD ha64be9e2M-mainmenu triggers a dbg: [misc] String too long for destination buffer
07:40:02  <SmatZ> you can place a breakpoint there and see the backtrace :)
07:40:06  <planetmaker> which I consider unfortunate :-)
07:40:37  <planetmaker> SmatZ: I seem to recall that there might even be differences between OS-versions, if things are too long
07:40:53  <planetmaker> We once had a cargodist(?) where there were issues due to the too long version
07:41:30  <planetmaker> but it might have been also or additionally something else there; don#t know quite anymore. Like git version detection being broken, too
07:41:38  <planetmaker> (which should be fixed now)
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09:10:04  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: smatz * r20041 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3892](r19955): crash when spectator tried to open a vehicle list without selecting any company
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09:15:33  <fjb> Moin
09:15:42  <Alberth> good morning
09:16:10  <fjb> Is it already morning?
09:16:22  <Alberth> it is here
09:17:26  <Alberth> so perhaps you are at the wrong spot?  :)
09:17:31  <fjb> You are a bit west of me. So I have about 24 hours time till it is morning here.
09:20:11  * Alberth wishes fjb a good today
09:21:28  * fjb thanks Alberth.
09:22:18  <Ammler> almost time to wish "en Guete" :-)
09:23:06  <fjb> Almost...
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09:25:18  <Alberth> you're too late for lunch already :)
09:26:28  <fjb> Who needs lunch? Where is planetmaker with the cake?
09:27:23  * Alberth checks the revision
09:27:45  <fjb> How many revisions to the next cake?
09:28:36  <Alberth> 439 seems like a good number
09:28:55  <fjb> Indeed.
09:31:10  <Ammler> yeah, why wait another 10k revs :-P
09:36:35  <planetmaker> good day to all of you, too :-)
09:36:47  <planetmaker> Oh well. I guess it's easy to have another cake before r30k :-)
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09:38:17  <Rolvaag> I've got another question for the transport pros you are :)
09:38:28  <Rolvaag>
09:38:53  <Rolvaag> ^ I've got a steel mill supplied by a steel mine, and it doesn't produce any goods
09:38:57  <Rolvaag> what am I doing wrong ?
09:39:08  <Alberth> wait until the next month
09:39:33  <Rolvaag> The train runs for something like two years, now
09:39:39  <fjb> Moin planetmaker
09:39:40  <planetmaker> Rolvaag: you didn't follow yesterday's advise to not use 'unload', but just a simple 'goto'
09:39:59  <Rolvaag> planetmaker : I used it on my new trains, this one is an old one :p
09:40:18  <planetmaker> ...
09:40:46  <Rolvaag> Forgot to de-unload them all, I guess - is this the problem ?
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09:41:33  <Alberth> if your train takes longer than a month to get another load, the industry will not produce anything in that month
09:42:07  <Rolvaag> hah ! It might be the problem, it's true that the train is quite long to get its load
09:42:33  <Alberth> yeah 64ton is very little for such a mine
09:43:03  <Rolvaag> but as you can see the mine produces more than my train can carry, so why is the train long ? It doesn't wait for more iron ore, I suppose
09:43:47  <Alberth> make the train shorter would be my suggestion
09:43:57  <Alberth> note that you get only 75% of the 64 ton
09:44:17  <Rolvaag> alright, but the train is on "full load any cargo", not "all cargo", so I thought it wasn't a problem
09:45:09  <Alberth> iirc high frequency of visiting stations is good
09:45:30  <Alberth> also constantly having a train loding is good, so another platform and another train would be useful too
09:45:44  <Rolvaag> with only two vans it's now quite fast, thanks !
09:45:52  <Rolvaag> (but only 1k income i_i)
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09:46:15  <Alberth> and if you want more steel production, add another line to another mine
09:46:35  <Alberth> distance between mine and mill is very short => not much money paid
09:48:34  <Rolvaag> Okay. So not only the amount of goods/ore delivered is important
09:49:11  <Alberth>
09:49:54  <Rolvaag> thx
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10:25:11  <Rolvaag> planetmaker : With planes, is it the same ? Just go to xy/go to xy, without loading/unloading ?
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10:27:33  <Alberth> if you set up a good service, you'll get more passengers than you can transport
10:27:38  <planetmaker> ^
10:28:49  <Rolvaag> but I have to tell them to take passengers ?
10:29:04  <Alberth> no, they will do that on their own
10:29:14  <Alberth> but why not simply try it?
10:29:23  <Alberth> much easier than asking :)
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10:29:31  <Rolvaag> but slower :p
10:29:58  <Alberth> are you sure? you asked the above yesterday as well. You could have known the answer already
10:30:12  <Alberth> besides much of the fun is finding out how to do things imho
10:30:39  <Rolvaag> yeah, like the buses, 3rd fail for me, I'm unable to find out how it works, even with wiki
10:30:48  <Rolvaag> and you know... Bringing life to channel, that stuff :p
10:31:56  <planetmaker> Rolvaag: just tell vehicles to go to A and to B.
10:31:59  <planetmaker> And it will work
10:32:14  <Rolvaag> for all types of vehicles ?
10:32:16  <planetmaker> there's - if you don't do anything else, not much going wrong
10:32:29  <planetmaker> Rolvaag: no, for all except trains, bus, trucks, planes and ships
10:32:34  <planetmaker> so only for pipelines
10:32:35  <Rolvaag> I was doing this in my first games, and after few hours I figured out my trains were always empty i_i
10:33:18  <Rolvaag> So for a bus, for example, I have to tell him to load "any" cargo ?
10:33:20  <planetmaker> The only thing you need to make sure is that the vehicle can actually load what you want to load. E.g. a bus at a coal mine will definitely always run empty
10:33:40  <planetmaker> [12:31]	<planetmaker>	Rolvaag: just tell vehicles to go to A and to B.
10:33:54  <Rolvaag> [12:32] <planetmaker> for all except trains, bus, trucks, planes and ships
10:34:19  <planetmaker>
10:34:53  <Rolvaag> beginners are really not good at finding them :p
10:34:59  <Rolvaag> Okay, I'll try what you said. Many thanks !
10:39:04  <Alberth> Rolvaag: if you find out how buses work, could you update the wiki?
10:39:18  <Alberth> Rolvaag: ie what piece of information is missing there?
10:39:56  <Alberth> that also holds for the other pages of the wiki
10:40:34  <Alberth> newbies often find omissions
10:40:56  <Rolvaag> sure
10:41:04  <Alberth> we can all dream how it works, so we never find things that are not clear to new users
10:41:27  <Alberth> thanks :)
10:41:38  <Rolvaag> well btw some pictures are outdated, or at least not the pictures I see with my version (1.0.2)
10:41:47  <Rolvaag> icons showed on Tutorial pages, I mean.
10:42:15  <Alberth> that depends on which graphics base set you use.
10:42:32  <Alberth> but perhaps the opengfx ones should be added.
10:43:13  * Alberth doesn't know a nice way to explain that to a new user
10:43:46  <__ln__> planetmaker: btw, awaiting payment details for r20k
10:43:51  <Rolvaag> Just reporting, if you say they're not outdated, then it's alright :)
10:43:59  <planetmaker> __ln__: right :-)
10:44:14  <Ammler> !screen
10:44:24  <Ammler> :-$
10:44:44  <Ammler> I am really sorry :'-(
10:44:44  <planetmaker> __ln__: what's your forum nick?
10:44:59  <__ln__> not registered to the forum
10:45:02  <planetmaker> oh
10:45:11  <__ln__> (i'm strange, yes)
10:45:29  <Ammler> the forum isn't English enouhg?
10:45:56  <Ammler> __ln__: how was Berlin, btw?
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10:47:20  <lusted_gay> is it possible to turn the camera in ttd? so many places i cant build railroad cause i cant see behind the buildings
10:47:25  <__ln__> big. i liked it. i'll go there again some time for a longer time.
10:48:20  <planetmaker> :-)
10:49:01  <Alberth> Rolvaag: I don't know whether they are outdated. Some of them might be (OpenTTD is constantly changing). It is hard to tell if you don't know both graphics sets
10:50:10  <Alberth> lusted_gay: nope, there is 'x' though
10:50:18  <lusted_gay> lets try x
10:50:27  <Alberth> lusted_gay: and to configure CTRL+x  :)
10:50:36  <lusted_gay> oh hell yes, thats perfect
10:51:00  <lusted_gay> thanks!
10:51:52  <planetmaker> Rolvaag: concerning graphics / screenshots: OpenTTD supports many different kind of graphics. There's no absolute default or basic installation
10:52:00  <planetmaker> So screenshots may differ
10:52:40  <andythenorth> bonjour
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11:02:27  <lusted_gay> is it always best to deliver the longest route possible?
11:03:35  <Ammler> mostly yes
11:04:01  <lusted_gay> Anywhere i can read about this? Exceptions, how to max the income etc
11:04:28  <Alberth> hmm, the transparency stuff is not nicely documented at the wiki
11:04:35  <Eddi|zuHause> lusted_gay: it depends on speed
11:05:16  <Eddi|zuHause> at 40km/h, you need years to get across a 2048 tile map, so you shouldn't do that. but at 300km/h it should be alright
11:05:23  <Alberth>
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11:29:11  <planetmaker> hm... how can operating profit be > 0, income > 0 and the company value dropping?
11:30:14  <Eddi|zuHause> company value should exclude the money on the bank
11:30:35  <Eddi|zuHause> only the value of the vehicles and tracks
11:30:46  <planetmaker> it doesn't though AFAIK
11:30:56  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if that actually is what it does ;)
11:31:07  <planetmaker> nor would it be sensible IMHO
11:31:20  <planetmaker> after all the cash is part of the value a company is worth
11:32:01  <Eddi|zuHause> the problem with that approach is: it'll always be 2$ while the company has loan...
11:33:31  <Alberth> people would be filling the whole map to get a higher company value, wouldn't they?
11:34:21  <Yexo> planetmaker: all vehicles have a value and the value of vehicles drops over time
11:34:27  <Yexo> vehicle value is part of company value
11:34:28  <Alberth> and keep max loan :)
11:34:40  <planetmaker> Yexo: sure. But AdmiralAI spends like 1.5million annually on "other" currently :-)
11:34:52  <Yexo> could be it's buying statues
11:34:54  <planetmaker> which is about 80% of the vehicle income
11:35:01  <planetmaker> yes. At least partially
11:35:21  <planetmaker> dunno where building extra station is accounted for
11:35:21  <Yexo> vehicles dropping in value will not show up on the the income sheet
11:35:36  <Yexo> building trees is also in "other"
11:36:06  <planetmaker> vehicles loosing value should not send the value plummeting. So it's re-structuring. Both RV and plane limits reached
11:36:18  <planetmaker> AIAI was quicker with that ;-)
11:36:19  <Eddi|zuHause> the problem with AdmiralAI is, that it doesn't clean up failed connection attempts
11:36:36  <Yexo> I know
11:36:52  <Eddi|zuHause> nor does it retry after a while, to check if conditions have changed
11:37:20  <planetmaker> still. It's 2nd or 3rd best in my competition
11:37:28  <planetmaker> Depending upon how you judge
11:38:52  <Yexo> it's getting old, it needs an update
11:40:10  <Alberth> patches are welcome :p
11:44:33  <planetmaker> :-)
11:45:05  <planetmaker> Yexo: the fact that it is STILL doing so well without an update for a long time is quite a quality criterion :-)
11:45:31  <Ammler> almost MB-Level :-P
11:46:28  <Yexo> I'm not claiming I have a very big hidden update for it
11:47:29  <Ammler> :-D
11:48:04  <planetmaker> the only thing I'm a bit surprised about is that it doesn't yet build trains as I've seen it trying that in other runs
11:48:51  <planetmaker> :-) Map is covered with AdmiralAI statues after two years. Company value rises again
11:49:25  <Rolvaag> [12:51] <planetmaker> Rolvaag: concerning graphics / screenshots: OpenTTD supports many different kind of graphics. There's no absolute default or basic installation
11:49:25  <Rolvaag> [12:52] <planetmaker> So screenshots may differ
11:49:44  <Rolvaag> Understood. I was thinking the game downloaded from official website would be the very actual one
11:50:05  <Alberth> game download does not include graphics
11:50:16  <planetmaker> Well. it is. But there are currently two different graphic base sets you can choose from
11:50:43  <planetmaker> Many screenshots in the wiki are (still) made with the TTD base graphics
11:51:25  <planetmaker> Even though usage is now approx 50:50 or even 66:33 depending upon how and when you count among the new, free one and the TTD one
11:52:19  <Rolvaag> Don't bother to explain it to me :p I was just reporting
11:52:46  <planetmaker> Hm, AdmiralAIs statue effort pays off. It's now catching up again with Rondje and SimpleAI
11:52:55  <planetmaker> I'm quite surprised how well SimpleAI does
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11:53:57  <planetmaker> 6 trains and 370 vehicles for it and 4 million company value after 11 years
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12:18:25  <Belugas> hello
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12:18:52  <Alberth> hello Belugas
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12:20:16  <Belugas> mister Alberth :)  may the day be pleasant for you
12:20:43  <Alberth> it is, patch appears to be working :)
12:21:01  <Alberth> the outside temperature is just not optimal :)
12:26:00  <Belugas> patch is working? nice.  so you do not need to smoke?
12:27:44  <fjb> Moin Belugas
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12:36:12  * andythenorth wonders about making something for the game
12:44:22  <Prof_Frink> andythenorth: You bastard.
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12:56:19  <Belugas> hello fjb :)
12:56:35  <fjb> :-)
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13:17:37  * Belugas mumbles at incredibly complex scheme of customer profile management
13:18:14  <Alberth> M$ is very good at coming up with complex APIs
13:19:06  <Noldo_> are there any APIs that you would give praise to?
13:21:07  <Belugas> PCCharge's File/tcpip method is very good indeed, Noldo_
13:21:35  <Belugas> Alberth, luckily, i'm shielded from M$'s api, thanks to Delohi :)
13:22:23  <Terkhen> M$ API is a nightmare, and I'm forced to use it for my project :(
13:22:23  *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
13:22:38  <Terkhen> luckily I already finished the part that required it
13:26:44  <Belugas> and it's bullet proof?
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13:29:20  <Terkhen> it seems to work fine... but it'll probably crash while I'm presenting it
13:29:47  <Belugas> most of the times, that's when it happens indeed :D
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13:44:59  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r20042 /trunk/src/gfx.cpp: -Codechange: Add set methods to DrawStringParams.
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13:53:17  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r20043 /trunk/src/ (20 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Introduce vertical alignment for DrawStringMultiLine().
13:54:16  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r20044 /trunk/src/gfx.cpp: -Codechange: Using number of lines rather than number of added lines simplifies code.
13:55:09  <planetmaker> Yexo: would you mind to add as link to ClimateDependentAirports on Bananas?
13:55:31  <planetmaker> as the URL one can give there as reference?
13:55:58  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r20045 /trunk/src/gfx.cpp: -Add: Allow SA_BOTTOM alignment in DrawStringMultiLine().
13:56:02  <Yexo> it's under the openttdcoop account, right?
13:57:31  <planetmaker> Yexo: I don't know... I thought it might be yours. If it's the openttdcoop account I can do myself
13:57:59  <Yexo> it's not under my account
13:58:01  * planetmaker would like  multi-account access for newgrfs on bananas :-)
13:58:16  <planetmaker> ok, then I'll do it. Thanks nevertheless
13:58:28  <planetmaker> I should have checked, didn't think of that account
13:59:39  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r20046 /trunk/src/console_gui.cpp: -Feature [FS#3816]: Wrap console lines when they are too long.
14:00:23  <Alberth> Time for an ice cream :p
14:00:34  <planetmaker> :-) You deserve it
14:00:43  <planetmaker> Can you bring me one, too, though?
14:01:48  *** De_Ghosty [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:04:35  * Alberth gives pm an ice cream too
14:04:44  <planetmaker> :-) yummi
14:06:24  <Eoin> FOOTBALL
14:07:03  *** Muxy [] has joined #openttd
14:09:01  <planetmaker> lucky Dutchies :-)
14:10:47  <Eoin> err
14:10:49  <Eoin> unlucky now :P
14:11:01  <planetmaker> or not so lucky. Indeed :-)
14:11:04  <Eddi|zuHause> you mean "lucky that it's getting quiet now" ;)
14:14:50  *** Fast2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:26:54  <Alberth> good time to do some shopping :)
14:27:25  <planetmaker> :-)
14:31:22  <Rolvaag> too hot :/
14:33:59  <Terkhen> we are currently at 34ºC... and the weather forecast says we'll reach 40ºC next week
14:34:15  <Belugas> there is no air clim in stores?
14:34:35  * Belugas is happy that the pool is ready and working, at home :)
14:35:23  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Administr@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:36:03  <Rolvaag> arh, lucky guy
14:37:17  <planetmaker> 36°C tomorrow is the forcast for here...
14:39:21  * Terkhen hopes that the air conditioning does not break again this year
14:49:16  * andythenorth wishes FIRS was more fun :(
14:49:24  *** JVassie [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:49:25  <Rolvaag> Is there, somehow, a list of latest announcements in game ? (subsidies offers, new transports available, etc)
14:49:46  *** JVassie [] has joined #openttd
14:49:46  <andythenorth> I've played for 70 years, connected all the chains and there's nothing really left to do
14:49:57  <Eddi|zuHause> <Belugas> there is no air clim in stores? <-- too much imho, if you go shopping, you need a thick jacket
14:50:03  <andythenorth> shall we spend the next 12 months working on some kind of goals framework?
14:50:12  <Eddi|zuHause> or you totally catch a cold
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15:00:04  <Belugas> andythenorth, naa... fifa handles the goals.  well.. with video-replay, it's be better, agreed...
15:00:27  <andythenorth> :P
15:01:19  <Alberth> Rolvaag: yes, the news history window
15:01:39  *** TheMask96 [] has joined #openttd
15:01:54  <Rolvaag> Was looking for the name, so thanks, I'll look for that
15:02:17  <GVV> andythenorth: did you try to max out production?
15:02:24  *** GVV is now known as VVG
15:02:25  <Alberth> Rolvaag: perhaps 'message hostory'
15:02:31  <Alberth> *history
15:02:34  <Rolvaag> yep, I found that now
15:02:35  <Rolvaag> thanks
15:02:38  <andythenorth> GVV can't be bothered :)
15:02:41  *** Eddi|zuHause2 [] has joined #openttd
15:02:48  *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@] has joined #openttd
15:03:28  <Rolvaag> Another question, I spotted some oil rig being built ; when it is being built you can click on it and see that 0 tons of Oil were produced, etc ; but when the oil rig is completed it only shows a heliport window, not a production window
15:03:56  <Yexo> that depends on the tile you click on
15:04:54  <VVG> andythenorth: one of the goals i had with original industries was to succeffuly max mines' production, which you need good service for. with FIRS' current implementation it's too easy :(
15:05:13  <andythenorth> even without FIRS it's trivial
15:05:16  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:05:24  <andythenorth> just run a truck feeder service
15:06:00  <andythenorth> that's one reason why I invented supplies as an alternative to ratings :)
15:06:14  <andythenorth> supplies are also easy, but it's...different
15:06:33  <VVG> i was trying it with trains, no truck cheats! :)
15:07:09  *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
15:07:56  <Eddi|zuHause> who stole my knoppix cd?
15:09:11  <VVG> linux gnomes?
15:09:40  <glx> PROFIT !!!
15:11:38  <planetmaker> nice... the game keeps being interesting :-)
15:13:16  *** Coco-Banana-Man [] has joined #openttd
15:15:59  * andythenorth wonders why sometimes HEQS trams lose their refit when loading a savegame (actually changes to Mail, not the default)
15:16:09  <andythenorth> r19994
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15:22:06  <frosch123> show savegame, else it did not happen :p
15:23:01  <Eddi|zuHause> ah, i found it
15:24:22  *** Rolvaag is now known as Rolvaag|Away
15:24:28  <andythenorth> frosch123: interesting.  I can't prove it happened :o
15:24:37  <andythenorth> loading older save games has same effect
15:24:55  <Eddi|zuHause> oh oh...
15:25:30  <andythenorth> maybe I refitted the vehicles myself by accident
15:27:41  <frosch123> maybe you changed industry grf, or similiar :)
15:28:23  <Belugas> ho ho... 2-1... excitment!
15:29:49  <andythenorth> frosch123: I did change from FIRS release to FIRS nightly
15:30:07  <andythenorth> "at my own risk"
15:30:26  <Eddi|zuHause> red!
15:32:05  <frosch123> and did you change cargoslots?
15:32:38  <andythenorth> no
15:32:40  <andythenorth> not at all
15:33:05  <frosch123> firs nightly has still the same cargo definitions as the release?
15:33:12  <andythenorth> yup
15:33:35  <andythenorth> I'm going to write this one off as 'must be my mistake'
15:33:35  <frosch123> no idea then
15:33:56  <andythenorth> I probably refitted the vehicles (wrongly) for some strange reason when I built them
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15:44:52  <andythenorth> is it possible two RVs could unload in a station *on the same drive side* ?
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15:45:39  <andythenorth> single tile drive-through roadstop
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15:46:54  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, they do that
15:47:03  <Eddi|zuHause> if they are short enough
15:48:32  <andythenorth> yes, one of them is
15:50:13  <Terkhen> yes, it's possible
15:50:26  * Mazur hears the sound of 200.000.000 groans of immense pain from the direction of South-America.
15:50:38  <Eoin> lol
15:50:40  <Ammler> evil Dutchies
15:50:49  <planetmaker> hehe
15:51:05  <Mazur> I thought the game lost asfter the first half.
15:51:20  <Mazur> Stopped watching., and that helped.
15:51:29  <Eoin> xD
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15:52:08  <Mazur> Gonna be a touch noisy around here.
15:52:48  <Wolf01> hello
15:52:52  <Eddi|zuHause> two (?) south american teams left?
15:53:03  <Eddi|zuHause> uruguay and argentina, i believe
15:53:42  <glx> there's another
15:53:49  <Mazur> And Paraguay
15:53:58  <glx> 1 per quarter
15:54:21  <Mazur> 3 Euries and one Afro.
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15:55:32  <Wolf01> OMG a holy duck!
15:57:46  <Mazur> Oops, some televisions in Brasil busted.
15:58:45  <Rubidium> planetmaker: the revision name limit is due to hysterical raisins and UDP packet size limitations
15:59:06  <planetmaker> what's the limit wrt UDP?
15:59:12  <Rubidium> planetmaker: hysterical because 5 years ago "they" thought 14 characters is more than enough
15:59:33  <Rubidium> the UDP packet size limitation is due to NewGRF IDs filling the packet quite thoroughly
16:00:01  <planetmaker> well... 10 characters would be enough for reasonable branch names
16:00:06  <Rubidium> and finally changing the name limit means a new version of the game query protocol
16:00:47  <planetmaker> but even something like NoAI would be too long if used with mercurial
16:02:23  <Rubidium> which means most of the current clients will see that server as not online. Not that nice... and in my opinion it isn't such a big problem; you could even just shorten the mercurial hash a bit more which gives you a few extra characters without breaking anything new
16:02:40  <planetmaker> it's definitely not something urgent, but a small thing which is useful at times when not using svn but git or mercurial as the hashes take already quite a bit of space
16:03:07  <planetmaker> well, sure one can.
16:04:01  <planetmaker> it's just that the default config produces revision names which might not even recognize eachother, if compiled by different platforms / compilers IIRC
16:05:12  <Rubidium> why would there be differences between compilers/platforms?
16:06:10  <planetmaker> I recall that we had once issues with some (too) long cargodist string which was a longer revision name with IIRC windows but shorter than compiled by the CF of yours. But I might recall that wrongly there
16:07:35  <planetmaker> well reason I asked here right now was that I got debug messages when running the game that the revision string was truncated
16:08:20  <Rubidium> IIRC that was because another branch was compiled or something... or maybe inconsitency in behaviour between the unix and windows scripts to acquire the version
16:08:31  <planetmaker> so the mainmenu showed something like "OpenTTD-habcdef123456M-mainmenu" but the reported revision was ""OpenTTD-habcdef123456M-mai"
16:09:19  <Rubidium> yeah, that should be just fine
16:09:40  <Mazur> Shortest Dutchman in the field scores with his head.
16:11:11  <Rubidium> as it only compares the first NETWORK_REVISION_LENGTH - 1 bytes
16:11:39  <planetmaker> :-) ok, no problem there, just erronous debug messages then
16:13:16  <planetmaker> well... erronous maybe not, but pointless
16:13:18  <Rubidium> no, the debug message is correct
16:13:39  <Rubidium> it might be that you're aware of it and don't care, but that's something else
16:13:46  <planetmaker> :-)
16:14:47  <planetmaker> in any case, I think it might be a good idea to make the string a bit longer next time the UDP packet is touched anyway.
16:17:49  <Rubidium> problem is that next time the protocol it touched to add something there space will be totally exhausted and thus no space for the longer strng
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16:18:48  <planetmaker> hm, that's bad :S
16:19:21  <planetmaker> so it'd basically need splitting the packet?
16:19:49  <Rubidium> yeah... but... UDP is unreliable making it even harder to get the server list
16:23:03  <planetmaker> hmpf ... so even worse
16:25:26  <planetmaker> thanks for sharing that though :-)
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16:27:37  <seba> hello
16:28:11  <planetmaker> Hi seba
16:28:50  *** seba [] has quit []
16:30:33  <planetmaker> ah so
16:34:16  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r20047 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix (rUnknown): Towns were not able to build level crossings when using original or better town layout.
16:34:19  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r20048 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Feature: Add a setting to forbid towns building level crossings.
16:34:23  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r20049 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Feature: [NewGRF] Add a railtype flag to disallow level crossings per railtype.
16:34:30  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r20050 /trunk/ ( projects/determineversion.vbs): -Add: git revision detection for custom git-svn clones.
16:35:04  <planetmaker> wow :-)
16:35:17  <Wolf01> :O finally
16:35:37  <Wolf01> thank you michi_cc
16:36:57  <Rolvaag|Away> can a boat full of oil unload directly at the train station, where a train will load it and take it to the factory ?
16:37:02  *** Rolvaag|Away is now known as Rolvaag
16:37:31  <Wolf01> Rolvaag, yes, just build a dock connected to the station
16:37:41  <michi_cc> Wolf01: for which one? :)
16:37:42  <Wolf01> and use transfer orders
16:37:54  <Rolvaag> Ok, I'll try that
16:37:58  <Wolf01> r20048/9
16:38:43  * planetmaker ponders using that flag immediately in SE rails
16:38:57  *** ajmiles3 [~aj@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:39:13  <Wolf01> Rolvaag, you can build the dock distant from the station keeping the ctrl pressed, so you can chose to which station connect it to
16:39:14  <michi_cc> Well, initially it was only 47, the rest is a by-product. But I though some people might like them :)
16:39:50  <Alberth> andso they did :)
16:39:59  <Wolf01> user-customisable behavior is always welcome ;)
16:40:21  <michi_cc> Yeah, YAPO, yet-another-patch-option :)
16:40:51  <planetmaker> :-)
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16:42:10  * Alberth ponders adding dummy toggle options with seemingly useful names like "realistic tree growth"
16:43:04  <Alberth> that is not Belugas-proof wording :)
16:44:02  <planetmaker> :-)
16:44:11  <planetmaker> don't wake him up :-P
16:44:24  <Terkhen> it would be fun to watch wiki entries about those dummy options
16:44:49  <Eddi|zuHause> <michi_cc> Wolf01: for which one? :) <-- all of them ;)
16:45:11  <Wolf01> yes, bugfixes are welcome too :D
16:46:21  <michi_cc> I'm still not sure when that bug actually got introduced, unless there's something quite strange going on, it looks like a r0 bug. But did really nobody ever miss it?
16:46:41  <Wolf01> too bad I seem to not-be able to bugfix, or at least doing it the right way... but only think about new features and how to implement them in the not-so-right way
16:46:41  <michi_cc> Quite puzzling :)
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16:47:38  <Eddi|zuHause> it can't be r0, because i definitely have seen towns building level crossings before the road layouts got introduced
16:47:58  <Eddi|zuHause> so it must be definitely after r4000
16:48:39  <Wolf01> and I've seen town built crossings after that too, it might be related to the more railtypes?
16:48:49  <michi_cc> the line in question had no actual changes (besides replacing numbers by constants) since r0, so...
16:49:12  <michi_cc> The bug only affects orignal and better road layout, not the grid layouts
16:49:29  <Eddi|zuHause> and around r7000-MiniIN i was annoyed because on the diagonal levelcrossings they sometimes only built one half, and the next road orthogonal, where it couldn't be connected
16:50:11  * planetmaker deletes difficulty settings
16:50:14  <Wolf01> ahahh I remember them
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16:50:21  <Eddi|zuHause> much later i did once suspect that towns didn't build level crossings anymore
16:50:37  <Eddi|zuHause> that may have been around r14000
16:50:55  <michi_cc> well, diagonal level crossing don't care if you check X or Y, so that would be an accidental bugfix
16:51:20  <michi_cc> I compiled r8000 just for fun and that already has the bug, but I didn't actually compile anything earlier
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16:51:45  <michi_cc> just dissected the code with git blame
16:51:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i really miss the diagonal level crossings :(
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16:52:36  <planetmaker> he... I got accidentially two new economy types: TrainReversing and Disaster :-D
16:52:46  <planetmaker> doesn't sound totally unrealistic
16:53:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i vaguely remember there used to be other direction mixups in the town road code
16:53:48  <Eddi|zuHause> so maybe they cancelled each other out before
17:03:59  <Belugas> [12:43] <Alberth> that is not Belugas-proof wording :)  <---  go ahead, you have my blessing.  Hey... we even have "realistic" acceleration, and as we all know, it's far from being realistic ;)
17:04:54  <Eddi|zuHause> after we have eliminated the word "patch", we certainly can eliminate the words "realistic" and "new" next...
17:05:01  <Belugas> and even more if it's just a dummy option hehehe
17:05:03  <Wolf01> we could implement also realistic map rotation, just rotate the screen by 90 degrees...
17:05:22  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
17:05:30  <planetmaker> though it IMHO makes sense with acceleration
17:05:43  <Alberth> a popup "please turn your screen 90 degrees" :p
17:05:47  <planetmaker> one of the few places where it's actually correct
17:06:00  <planetmaker> :-P
17:06:13  <planetmaker> "you dialed an imaginary number?"
17:06:25  <Eddi|zuHause> more like: "physics model: {simple|complex}"
17:06:45  <planetmaker> that's not more descriptive
17:06:54  <Eddi|zuHause> "physics model: {simple (power, weight)|complex (power, weight, tractive effort)}"
17:07:04  <Alberth> except that nothing is 'complex', that just means 'I don't understand it'
17:07:14  <planetmaker> Alberth: that's not true :-)
17:07:27  <Belugas> {simple|complex|unrealistic|funny}
17:07:40  <planetmaker> 'complexity' can be a well-defined thing
17:07:44  <Alberth> so what is complex even though you understand it completely?
17:07:57  <Belugas> intricated?
17:08:02  <Belugas> huge?
17:08:06  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: it's about "more complex" and "less complex"
17:08:09  <Belugas> convoluted?
17:08:11  <planetmaker> a set of rules can be quite complex. But it can be understood
17:08:18  <Eddi|zuHause> so relative complexity, not absolute complexity
17:08:20  <planetmaker> but not grasped on 'first sight' or so
17:08:22  <andythenorth> complexity is a scale?
17:08:36  <Belugas> naaa. it's a word :P
17:08:45  <planetmaker> E.g. an n-body problem in physics is definitely a complex problem. But it is well understood
17:08:51  <planetmaker> for hundrets of years even
17:08:53  <Eddi|zuHause> P > NP > Exptime > Expspace > ... :p
17:08:58  <Mazur> "convoluted" is when it _should_ be done more simply.
17:09:17  <Belugas> which means it's comlpex for no reason :)
17:09:18  <planetmaker> it just has no analytical solution, if n>3
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17:09:37  <planetmaker> and only few, if n=3
17:10:12  <planetmaker> but still it's just a matter of computational power in order to achieve any given accuracy
17:10:23  <Eddi|zuHause>
17:10:51  <planetmaker> that xkcd is not quite, true ;-)
17:11:04  <Eddi|zuHause> (the alt text especially :))
17:12:28  <planetmaker> :-) Indeed
17:15:34  <Noldo_> runge-kutta <3
17:15:47  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Administr@] has joined #openttd
17:18:49  <planetmaker> for example :-)
17:19:44  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: yexo * r20051 /trunk/src/table/settings.h: -Fix [FS#3916]: coloured_news_year was stored in savegames while it should be a client setting
17:20:54  * Wolf01 hope that change doesn't break old savegames
17:21:23  <Eddi|zuHause> why would it?
17:22:30  <planetmaker> jo :-)
17:22:43  <planetmaker> hm... I should pull and merge...
17:22:53  <Wolf01> if it doesn't move the values it should only leave some empty space...
17:23:13  <planetmaker> Wolf01: have you ever seen a patch which really broke old savegames?
17:23:33  <Wolf01> yes, but on miniIN only :P
17:23:34  <Eddi|zuHause> i have seen two
17:23:39  <Yexo> Wolf01: the value is still read from old savegames but ignored
17:23:43  <planetmaker> what makes you think that ignoring the saved date will be one of those
17:23:54  <Yexo> in the current savegame version 4 zero bytes are written to the savegame
17:23:56  <Eddi|zuHause> the removal of the bridge patch
17:24:03  <Yexo> after the next savegame bump nothing will be written
17:24:14  <Eddi|zuHause> and some other patch which broke about two non-nightly revisions
17:25:14  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: +       SDT_CONDNULL(                                                            4,  0, 143), <--- that means "4 bytes of empty space"
17:25:54  <Yexo> in all savegames with a version from 0 to 143 (=current)
17:32:34  <andythenorth> right
17:32:39  <andythenorth> enough work work on my day off
17:32:47  <andythenorth> lets make something for the game :)
17:33:03  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i just wanted to try transport giant, but it is _extremely_ slow in wine
17:36:01  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: don't bother
17:36:08  <planetmaker> I've never seen a game more buggy
17:36:16  <Wolf01> uh oh, he tried to play "another" game
17:36:24  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, people keep telling me that, but i wanted to see with my own eyes ;)
17:36:35  <andythenorth> @seen FooBar
17:36:35  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: I have not seen FooBar.
17:36:39  <andythenorth> @seen foobar
17:36:39  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: I have not seen foobar.
17:36:45  <andythenorth> :P
17:36:53  <Belugas> @whois Foobar
17:37:50  <planetmaker> @seen foo*
17:37:50  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: I haven't seen anyone matching foo*.
17:38:18  <andythenorth> he ain't here then :P
17:38:24  <planetmaker> nope
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17:45:53  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: translators * r20052 /trunk/src/lang/ (irish.txt serbian.txt spanish.txt):
17:45:53  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:53  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: irish - 116 changes by tem
17:45:53  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: serbian - 2 changes by etran
17:45:53  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: spanish - 2 changes by Terkhen
17:46:07  *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
18:10:30  <Mazur> @seen you*
18:10:30  <DorpsGek> Mazur: I haven't seen anyone matching you*.
18:10:47  <Mazur> That's what i figured.  :-(
18:12:58  <Alberth> you are unique
18:14:10  <Belugas> #you were just a face in the crowd
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18:23:44  <Alberth> It's too early for Korn, let's try RadioHead instead :)
18:24:10  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Administr@] has joined #openttd
18:25:32  <peter1138> early or later?
18:26:09  <andythenorth> got to be early at this time of day
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18:43:11  * Belugas is *still* on Queensrych
18:44:05  <Belugas> nothing like a good does of distorsion/high pich voice to get on the nerves of the colleagues ;)
18:44:12  <Belugas> does->dose
18:46:36  * Alberth is glad the Internet is sound proof :p
18:49:56  <Belugas> gnegnegnegne !
18:50:28  <Belugas> hem.. not quite... but that's another story :)
18:52:29  <Alberth> It can, if you want it to be :)
18:55:47  <Belugas> for a start, one has to have speakers on !
18:58:05  <Alberth> check
19:04:16  <Belugas> oooch... 200 pages of specs... good time reading...
19:08:13  <andythenorth> Spec war!
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19:10:38  <glx> Belugas: fixed or moving specs ?
19:11:24  <Belugas> ho pretty much fixed :)
19:11:38  <Belugas> last revision was april 2010
19:12:26  <Belugas> which is to say lots of people took a bite on it and i'm just on a pitfall-free road :)
19:12:30  <Belugas> for once!
19:12:58  <Belugas> Alberth, then, open search page with keyword sex or such :)
19:13:36  *** Adambean [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:13:46  <Belugas> that, or search for "Bloody Time Zone" hehehe
19:13:48  <Alberth> right, and you think I let random scripts execute in my browser? ;)
19:14:49  <Belugas> well... as i only know our face and your name, it's quite not possible for me to know of your habits as much as browser is concerned ;)
19:14:54  *** Fuco [~dota.keys@] has quit [Quit: Quit]
19:20:15  *** phalax [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:28:54  * fjb knows Alberth in real. :-)
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19:32:23  <Belugas> ho... you had to bring that up, don't you :P
19:32:52  <Belugas> you lucky <censored>
19:34:25  * Rubidium wonders why German is a censored word
19:34:49  <Alberth> perhaps in Canada :)
19:37:13  <fjb> :-)
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19:52:05  <fjb> Sorry, Belugas, I could not resist. :-)
19:52:20  *** RayneSplit [] has joined #openttd
19:52:28  <Belugas> no problem :)
19:52:47  <RayneSplit> how do i create oneway streets?
19:53:03  <RayneSplit> v:1.0.1-1
19:53:55  <fjb> Use the build one way road button in the roald toolbox.
19:54:41  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20053 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3919] (r20034): crashing road vehicles crashed OpenTTD with slower/longer trains
19:54:49  <Belugas> hooo... 1-1... i guess the match will be over when i'll be home...
19:54:51  <Belugas> bye all
19:56:13  <RayneSplit> fjb, there is a button? meh, i saw only the "enable oneway button" (but not clickable)
19:56:19  <RayneSplit> i have to check this 

19:56:39  <fjb> You have to select the build road button first.
19:57:26  <RayneSplit> d'oh
19:57:33  <RayneSplit> so stupid, thank a lot fjb
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20:25:29  <Eddi|zuHause> looks like the match will not be over for another 30 minutes :p
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20:29:46  <andythenorth> question marks of doom :P
20:30:05  <andythenorth> often kill my openttd
20:30:30  *** Rolvaag [~izual@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:35:04  <fjb> Be nice to your game.
20:41:15  <welshdragon> hmm
20:48:18  <fjb> Really.
20:50:04  * andythenorth builds a lot of Hercules for carrying tractors
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20:59:03  <Wolf01> 'night
20:59:09  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
21:03:32  <welshdragon> Anyone know why when loading a game it loads the title game? 1.0.2
21:05:03  <Rubidium> because for some reason it can't open the savegame and falls back to the title game? Because you're actually opening the title game?
21:08:24  <welshdragon> Well that's annoying
21:08:34  <welshdragon> as the save is made with 1.0.2
21:08:46  <welshdragon> and was uploaded by FTP
21:09:01  <Rubidium> binary vs ascii?
21:09:03  * andythenorth wonders who uses 10m litre capacity tankers in very large ships grf
21:09:27  <Ammler> welshdragon: we have that usually when we load a game with missing newgrfs
21:09:34  <welshdragon> Rubidium: huh?
21:09:52  <Ammler> assuming, you speak about dedicated server
21:10:05  <welshdragon> yeah
21:10:05  <welshdragon> that's probably it
21:10:28  <Ammler> run content update - content select all - content upgrade - content download
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21:14:18  <Terkhen> good night
21:15:26  <Rubidium> welshdragon: most tools default (or did?) to uploading files as if they are ASCII, i.e. only sending the first 7 bits of each byte. That obviously messes up you data if the 8th bith is important
21:16:23  <Rubidium> (you can replace uploading by downloading if needed)
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21:23:28  * andythenorth discovers he is running a route with 10 ships with 1m litres each :o
21:23:46  <andythenorth> 10m litre tanker doesn't look so silly now
21:25:28  <Rubidium> sorry... that's not enough to save the gulf :)
21:25:57  * andythenorth offers new industry for FIRS
21:26:03  <andythenorth> exploding oil well
21:26:16  <andythenorth> consumes engineering supplies....
21:26:17  <Rubidium> although... 60k barrels is about 10m liters... so maybe it is
21:26:23  <andythenorth> outputs dead birds
21:27:09  * andythenorth should go to bed
21:28:48  <Ammler> abort: requirement '<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ANSI_X3.4-1968"?>' not supported!
21:29:08  <Ammler> if I clone 1.0.hg
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21:43:04  <welshdragon> Ammler: do i have to untar the files once they are downloaded?
21:43:13  <Ammler> :-)
21:43:29  <Ammler> seriously?
21:43:44  <welshdragon> yah
21:43:52  <Ammler> well, you can
21:44:25  <welshdragon> ... but I'm guessing it's not necessary?
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21:56:45  <SmatZ> bye all, I am gone for a week
21:57:44  <welshdragon> have a nice holiday SmatZ
21:57:44  <welshdragon> o/
21:58:28  <Yexo> bye SmatZ, have fun
21:58:58  *** DDR [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:00:31  *** Progman [] has quit [Quit: Progman]
22:01:35  <fjb> Bye SmatZ
22:02:39  * fjb waves a handkerchief.
22:08:15  *** Adambean` [] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing]
22:12:02  <fjb> Hey, nobody needs to leave because I'm waving.
22:16:19  *** RayneSplit [] has quit [Quit: I compressed my important files with md5sum. how do I decompress them?]
22:17:11  *** ajmiles [] has joined #openttd
22:28:26  <planetmaker> have fun, SmatZ
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22:47:24  <welshdragon> Ammler: still around?
22:49:34  <Ammler> yes, good night :-)
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22:52:09  <welshdragon> ah
22:52:18  <welshdragon> Good Night
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23:22:44  <welshdragon> hm
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