Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:47 <SmatZ> quite long 00:01:35 <Rubidium> true 00:01:52 <Rubidium> but significantly cheaper than an airplane 00:02:36 *** bryjen [~bryjen@cpe-75-81-201-131.we.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 00:05:44 <Rubidium> because for the airplane 4 hours to get to the airport, 2 hours for checking, 2 hours flight, deboarding...getting into town and you're quickly near 10 hours 00:06:32 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-67-91.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:06:50 <Rubidium> and with the bus you'll be under way 4-5 hours more, but less changing and it's an overnight trip so you could sleep somewhat instead of getting up at 03:00 to get to the airport on time 00:08:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i never can sleep in busses 00:08:07 <SmatZ> :) 00:08:08 <SmatZ> I can 00:08:58 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.9.42.146] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 00:09:12 <ccfreak2k> I don't think I would be able to. 00:09:18 <ccfreak2k> Someone might steal my things. 00:09:30 <SmatZ> :D 00:09:58 <Rubidium> don't take anything of value with you... :) 00:11:55 <Rubidium> though the chance of stealing wouldn't be that high if the bus wouldn't make intermediate stops 00:14:55 <SmatZ> :) 00:15:03 <SmatZ> bye on Thursday (I hope) 00:15:05 <SmatZ> time for a nap 00:15:09 <SmatZ> waking up at 4:30 00:15:11 <SmatZ> :-x 00:18:10 <Rubidium> time for a nap is a good idea, waking up at 04:30 isn't 00:20:37 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@209.80-203-100.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.6/20100625231939]] 00:32:38 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-11-194.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:33:20 <Eddi|zuHause> nap != sleep 00:35:51 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:35:56 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 00:53:56 <ccfreak2k> I posit that napping is a subset of sleeping,. 00:54:58 <Eddi|zuHause> not if you define that sleep involves a REM phase 00:55:28 <ccfreak2k> Which I don't. 00:55:37 <Eddi|zuHause> which first starts about after 3 hours 00:56:20 <Eddi|zuHause> anything below 6 hours is practically useless for regenerating... 00:56:50 <Eddi|zuHause> so either you take a nap of 1 hour, or sleep for not less than 6 hours 00:56:56 <Eddi|zuHause> anything inbetween is just waste of time 00:57:39 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-77-86-119-39.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:04:45 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc3-pres13-2-0-cust333.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.6/20100625231939]] 01:24:25 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8da68.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:26:52 *** Smoovious [imp586@75-12-89-18.lightspeed.wyngmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 01:35:51 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:46:37 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.216.247] has joined #openttd 01:51:58 *** ctibor|spi [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 01:53:02 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.178.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:54:27 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:10:18 *** perk11 [~perk11@178.34.100.87] has joined #openttd 02:14:17 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 02:14:19 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 02:14:22 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ 02:22:43 *** fjb is now known as Guest486 02:22:45 *** fjb [~frank@p5485FE46.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:22:46 *** perk11 [~perk11@178.34.100.87] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 02:24:40 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@188.109.254.6] has joined #openttd 02:29:42 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@188.109.248.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:30:22 *** Guest486 [~frank@p5485ACB3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:36:18 <Pikka> is it an orudge? 02:36:52 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c065:3278:d662:bad9] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:12:49 <PeterT> it's a sleepingrude 03:12:52 <PeterT> rudge 03:16:42 *** duckblaster [~duckblast@202-65-54-246.xdsl.net.oyster.net.ck] has joined #openttd 03:21:54 *** KouDy [~KouDy@rb5ck203.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 03:23:43 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: more listen, more understand, more know] 03:36:30 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 03:37:29 *** Smoovious [imp586@75-12-89-18.lightspeed.wyngmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Those who are different, change the world. Those who are the same, keep it that way.] 03:41:02 *** bryjen [~bryjen@cpe-75-81-201-131.we.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:59:57 *** KouDy [~KouDy@rb5ck203.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:56:03 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74B60.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:56:27 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77555.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:33:00 <andythenorth> morning 05:33:13 <andythenorth> Pikka: broad gauge? 05:33:32 <Pikka> not so's you'd notice! 05:38:12 <ccfreak2k> gauge 05:38:37 <ccfreak2k> X-chat's spelling thing (aspell?) doesn't recognize gauge. 05:46:22 <andythenorth> Pikka: would you consider adding broad gauge to UKRS track set? 05:50:15 <Pikka> I'd consider it! 05:50:28 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe34dc00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 05:53:18 <andythenorth> let me know the result of your considerations :) 05:54:25 <andythenorth> expensive fast engines early in the game :) 05:54:48 * andythenorth ponders some date based code that makes them useless after 1892 05:55:44 <ccfreak2k> An OpenTTD game can start earlier than 1900? 05:56:55 <andythenorth> ccfreak2k: try it and see... 05:57:00 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:57:07 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 05:57:10 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ 05:57:33 <ccfreak2k> Too lazy. 05:57:38 <ccfreak2k> Plus I'm compiling StepMania. 05:58:17 *** sparr [sparr@c-24-98-228-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 05:59:18 *** sparr [sparr@c-24-98-228-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 06:00:05 <Pikka> hmm 06:00:17 <Pikka> who knew they had oil refineries in the year 5?! :P 06:01:15 * andythenorth knew 06:01:44 * andythenorth reconsiders a mad max newgrf 06:14:05 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-4-166.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:16:30 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-202-105.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 06:16:33 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 06:20:26 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-74-109-43-90.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 06:22:29 *** FauxFaux [faux@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:32:00 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:37:11 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 06:45:43 <dih> does anybody know how to parse an rsync batch file? 06:46:06 <dih> i.e. --only-write-batch 06:46:22 <dih> and now parse the output with something like php to display that on a webpage :-P 06:46:52 *** JVassie_ [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 07:03:05 *** nanoha-sama [nanohataka@cg4l3001.smb.curriegrad2004.ca] has joined #openttd 07:06:46 * Pikka considers andythenorth mad 07:07:36 <andythenorth> :P 07:07:45 <Noldo_> what did he do now? 07:12:17 <Terkhen> good morning 07:16:22 <Vadtec> Pikka: hi, i have another question about your NARS GRF 07:16:49 <Pikka> just the usual, Noldo_ 07:16:57 <Vadtec> i have told the auto-replace system to replace all Gondolas with the 40' Gondola 07:17:18 <Vadtec> however, i have 19 Gondolas that I refitted to carry coal 07:17:32 <Vadtec> and for some reason, the auto-replace system doesnt want to replace them with the 40' Gondola 07:17:37 <Vadtec> is this by design? 07:17:54 <Pikka> nope 07:18:23 <Vadtec> so it should be replacing them correct? 07:18:48 <Vadtec> it has replaced the other cars ive refitted, so i assume it should work for these as well 07:19:39 <Vadtec> its *only* gondolas set to carry coal as well, all the others auto-replaced just fine 07:21:10 <Vadtec> i just tried making it change them to the Two Bay Hopper Car 07:21:13 <Vadtec> still didnt work 07:22:25 <Vadtec> O.o 07:22:43 <Vadtec> i sent the two trains for maintenance manually...and it worked with the two bay hopper car 07:23:01 <Vadtec> ill have to see if i can reproduce this 07:26:51 *** FauxFaux [faux@molotov.compsoc.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 07:27:29 *** tdev [~udev@p508EA263.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:30:47 <Vadtec> Pikka: in your NARS GRF, when a faster version of a train comes out (like the 4-6-0), do all existing trains get upgraded automatically during maintenance? 07:31:05 <Pikka> nope 07:31:18 <Vadtec> so how do you get the upgraded version? 07:31:33 <Pikka> sell it and buy a new one 07:31:52 <Vadtec> bleh 07:53:45 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8d82c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 07:55:00 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:27:45 *** duckblaster [~duckblast@202-65-54-246.xdsl.net.oyster.net.ck] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:46:37 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:59:09 *** lewymati [~lewymati@89.230.159.206] has joined #openttd 09:05:00 <peter1138> harr, solved it by, indeed, reworking it completely. 09:07:44 * andythenorth discovers an interesting bananas issue / question 09:08:14 <andythenorth> distributing a GPL newgrf should require also distribution of source 09:08:31 <andythenorth> by those doing the distribution 09:09:15 <andythenorth> who does the distribution in case of bananas? The uploader, or the maintainers of bananas? 09:10:10 <dih> you do not require the distribution of the source! 09:10:27 <dih> you require providing the source in case of a request for the source 09:11:02 <andythenorth> dih: "Yes. The general rule is, if you distribute binaries, you must distribute the complete corresponding source code too. The exception for the case where you received a written offer for source code is quite limited." 09:11:07 <andythenorth> from http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html 09:11:39 <andythenorth> an argument could be that the person doing the upload is causing the distribution, so it's their responsibility 09:14:19 *** dfox [~dfox@r6l51.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 09:15:42 <Pikka> andythenorth: nothing is uploaded to bananas under the GPL 09:16:10 <andythenorth> ? 09:16:18 <Pikka> http://bananas.openttd.org/en/manager/tos/ 09:16:28 <Pikka> this is the terms under which bananananas distributes newgrfs 09:17:45 <dih> erm Pikka and where do you get that nothing is under gpl? 09:17:52 * andythenorth ducks a GPL discussion. We've been there before :o 09:18:03 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:18:39 <Pikka> dih: the terms of service require you to be an author (ie, copyright owner) and to grant a license to the OpenTTD team with those conditions 09:18:55 <dih> the point andythenorth is making, is that if a grf is released under gpl, and distributed via bananas, is the bananas portal suppose to also provide a download for the gpl source of that grf package 09:19:42 <Pikka> but the grf on bananas isn't released under the gpl, it's released under the bananas tos 09:20:06 <dih> that then however does not explain the 'copying' file required ;-) 09:20:14 <dih> which in some cases clearly states gpl 09:20:34 <Pikka> now, if the grf author has used gpl-licenced content in their grf, that's another issue :P 09:20:36 <Rubidium> I agree that (in the future) the sources of GPLed stuff should be uploaded as well 09:20:38 <dih> i am sure, TB had not forgotten or missed the point 09:20:52 <Rubidium> however... time constraints made it that it hasn't happened yet 09:20:59 <dih> Pikka: which is exactly what andythenorth is pointing out 09:21:06 * Pikka is glad I don't have to worry about such licencing nonsense ;) 09:21:14 <dih> :-P 09:21:16 <andythenorth> :P 09:21:30 * andythenorth is in a world of GPL work-related fun at the moment 09:21:33 <Rubidium> on the other hand... sources for AI stuff aren't needed as they are in source for 09:21:43 <dih> i personally would say that it is not OpenTTD's responsibility, as it's the author, who is using a portal / service provided 09:21:58 * dih hands Rubidium an 'm' 09:22:19 * Pikka hands Rubidium a 't' 09:22:32 * Pikka hands Rubidium a 'k' 09:22:42 * Pikka hands Rubidium a 'd' 09:23:30 * Pikka hands Rubidium cheese and onion crisps 09:23:36 <Pikka> they're not very nice but they were on special D; 09:24:02 * andythenorth hands himself a copyright argument :P 09:24:29 * Pikka copyrights andythenorth 09:24:42 <Pikka> © 09:24:48 * andythenorth contends that pikka is not the author of andythenorth 09:24:51 <dih> Rubidium: would i make sense to merely check for a 'src' or 'source' folder within the tar of a grf released under any gpl lisence? 09:24:57 <andythenorth> unless there's something I don't know :o 09:25:03 <Pikka> :o 09:25:05 <Rubidium> maybe I should patent copyrights 09:25:14 <Pikka> well, you did say you were from near there... 09:25:14 <andythenorth> dih: not unless you fancy distributing about 20mb of psd files :P 09:25:24 <Rubidium> as I understand it the USPTO won't find any prior art 09:25:26 <dih> ops 09:26:33 <Rubidium> dih: rather upload a separate archive which we'll just provide on the download page 09:26:36 <dih> or would it be sufficient to not another url for the source? i.e. author must provide another url in the readme, etc? 09:26:38 * Pikka code hst D: 09:26:54 <dih> *note 09:27:26 <Rubidium> that might suffice as well, but I'm not sure those locations are "stable" 09:28:04 <dih> or, add another line statement that the author of a gpl'd grf grants OpenTTD the 'exception' of not requireing to distribute the source :-P 09:28:35 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-67-91.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 09:28:46 <dih> Rubidium: you are not in charge of keeping trac, or making sure url's authors provide _are_ stable 09:28:53 <dih> they are using a service OpenTTD is providing 09:28:59 <dih> it is their responsibility 09:29:22 <dih> i.e. sourceforge.net is not in charge of making sure other urls mentioned in readmes (e.g.) are 'stable' either 09:29:50 * andythenorth agrees with dih 09:30:04 <andythenorth> although IANAL so my opinion is not worth 2p 09:30:40 <FauxFaux> (huhuhu) 09:33:38 <Rubidium> one could consider bananas as DMCA "safe harbour" 09:33:42 *** tdev [~udev@p508EA263.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: free open source vehicle simulator: http://rigsofrods.com] 09:36:52 <Rubidium> dih: I am, together with TrueBrain, in charge of keeping trac (working) 09:38:39 <dih> but you are not in charge of the grf itself 09:39:08 <dih> you may be in charge of the 'correctness' of lisence -> content or violations 09:39:09 <Rubidium> tss... dih didn't get it 09:39:17 * Rubidium wonders who did get the joke 09:39:33 <dih> trac <- :-P 09:44:22 * Pikka got something 09:44:28 <Pikka> but I think "joke" might be a little strong ;) 09:44:37 *** perk11 [~perk11@178.34.100.87] has joined #openttd 09:44:52 * andythenorth got hungry 09:45:43 <dih> andythenorth: you are odd! 09:45:58 <andythenorth> I'm English, what do you expect? 09:50:21 <Rubidium> andythenorth: that you'd be preparing elevensies! 10:00:55 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 10:03:24 *** Zahl [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:79e7:2630:fbab:fbb5] has joined #openttd 10:09:19 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 10:13:17 *** VVG [~sdfkhksd@85.249.0.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:26:21 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.7.77] has joined #openttd 10:34:44 *** murr4y [~murray@150.84-49-69.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 10:39:57 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-25-5-181.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:59:34 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-77-86-119-39.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 10:59:53 *** Adambean` [adamr@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 11:00:56 *** Dreamxtreme [Dreamxtrem@92.10.85.141] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:04:59 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host41-235-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 11:05:58 <Wolf01> hello 11:07:22 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:11:28 *** Adambean` [adamr@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 11:12:57 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d823c2b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:13:49 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.157.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:19:22 *** BCMM [~ben@78.32.73.127] has joined #openttd 11:19:37 <BCMM> which AIs are "good", as in hard to beat? 11:22:51 <Eddi|zuHause> all AIs are easy to beat 11:28:12 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.7.77] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:29:02 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.2.175.81] has joined #openttd 11:30:16 <BCMM> ah 11:30:37 <BCMM> i'm fairly new to the games; which is hardest? 11:32:53 <Ammler> play MP 11:34:55 *** perk11 [~perk11@178.34.100.87] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 11:35:05 <BCMM> fair enough 11:43:15 *** tdev [~udev@p508EA263.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:43:57 <dih> trial and error? 11:44:15 <dih> totally dependent on how good YOU are ^^ 11:47:39 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:80e3:c369:90d7:69d6] has joined #openttd 11:47:42 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 11:49:48 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 12:01:25 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 12:05:31 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@c122-108-245-233.kelvn3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.6/20100625231939]] 12:07:32 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-74-109-43-90.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:12:21 *** Dreamxtreme [Dreamxtrem@92.10.85.141] has joined #openttd 12:13:45 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DAFA5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:18:24 <TrueBrain> # INFORMER! 12:18:44 <__ln__> microsoft comic chat? 12:20:20 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i never understood the text of that song :p 12:20:53 <TrueBrain> nobody does 12:21:03 <TrueBrain> # Who are you going to call tonight 12:21:09 <TrueBrain> # Who are you going to call in the twilight zone 12:21:13 <TrueBrain> like thatone makes sense ... 12:21:21 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a parody of that song... "Ich bin ein Farmer" 12:24:14 <TrueBrain> do you know Zorba's Dance? 12:25:46 <TrueBrain> jt 12:25:51 <Eddi|zuHause> names don't ring a bell with me... 12:26:42 <TrueBrain> it has no text :p 12:27:19 <Belugas> hello 12:30:40 * TrueBrain hugs Belugas 12:31:13 <Eddi|zuHause> but now for something completely different 12:31:18 <Eddi|zuHause> http://improveverywhere.com/2010/07/14/star-wars-subway-car/ 12:34:32 <TrueBrain> lol @ book: galactic rebellion for dummies :) 12:34:41 <Eddi|zuHause> ;) 12:40:26 <Alberth> hello Belugas 12:43:12 * Belugas hugs TrueBrain and Alberth a whole lotta lot 12:49:22 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i think timidity has got some instruments wrong on this midi track... 12:49:44 <Eddi|zuHause> replaced them with pianos where they don't belong 12:53:11 *** Adambean [~AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 13:03:05 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:03:20 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.2.175.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:05:45 *** perk11 [~perk11@178.34.100.87] has joined #openttd 13:06:23 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: briliant website :) 13:07:14 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.152.38] has joined #openttd 13:10:12 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has joined #openttd 13:19:24 *** VVG [~sdfkhksd@85.249.0.43] has joined #openttd 13:19:39 <VVG> hi 13:30:52 <Eddi|zuHause> hai VauVauGeh 13:32:02 <VVG> Eddi|zuHause: that's how you pronounce it in your language? 13:32:12 <Eddi|zuHause> pretty much ;) 13:34:02 <VVG> What's your native language? Or the language you base your pronounciation on? 13:36:53 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-74-109-43-90.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 13:40:01 <Eddi|zuHause> german 13:40:52 <Sacro> deutsch! 13:41:48 <__ln__> zurÃŒckbleiben, bitte 13:45:27 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:49:22 <VVG> It never crossed my mind it will differ in other languages. :) 13:50:25 <dih> __ln__ ist zurÃŒckgeblieben 13:58:56 <Ammler> using grfcodec -c seems quite tricky :-) 14:00:57 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B7530B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:03:30 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77555.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:09:52 *** KouDy [~KouDy@rb5ck203.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 14:20:08 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 14:20:25 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC51D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:29:22 *** dail [ae654110@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 14:29:53 *** KouDy [~KouDy@rb5ck203.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:29:55 *** Sacro is now known as Guest598 14:29:56 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-77-86-119-39.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 14:32:49 <dail> I recently compiled the latest svn. However the binary cannot find OpenSFX or the default graphics(i have openttd-data). Its under linux. How do i have it find the graphics and OpenSFX? Thanks 14:34:21 *** Sacro is now known as Guest599 14:34:21 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-77-86-107-188.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 14:34:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the readme tells you the paths where it searches for the data files 14:35:32 <dail> Ive got 1.0.2 installed and it works fine, but the compiled binary does not find it. Wouldn't they both look in the same place? 14:35:45 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.202] has joined #openttd 14:35:47 <Eddi|zuHause> the openttd-data package probably installed in a directory relative to the "openttd" package, but your svn compilate is in a different directory 14:36:09 <dail> Oh! That would make sense 14:36:37 *** Guest598 [~ben@adsl-77-86-119-39.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:36:48 <Eddi|zuHause> if you read the information correctly, you probably find solutions for that, without moving the data 14:38:23 <Rubidium> what distribution are you talking about? 14:38:29 <dail> OS? 14:38:45 <Rubidium> because I know distributions where openttd-data doesn't contain opensfx, opengfx and such 14:38:51 <glx> I'd say openttd-data is not installed at the right place and I'd blame the package maintainer 14:39:00 *** Guest599 [~ben@adsl-77-86-119-39.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:39:01 <dail> Ubuntu 10.04 14:39:18 <dail> I had to install openttd-data and opensfx seperately 14:39:24 <Rubidium> then openttd-data doesn't contain opensfx or opengfx, but the lagnuage files 14:39:36 <dail> scratch the last message 14:39:42 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 14:40:07 <dail> would you specify the path to the opensfx and opengfx in the config file then? 14:40:56 <glx> no, the search paths are detailled in the readme 14:41:06 <glx> it's not configurable 14:42:15 <Ammler> you shouldn't use openttd 1.0.2 data with trunk anyway 14:42:27 *** sparr [sparr@c-24-98-228-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:42:48 <dail> So its not a good idea to have 1.0.2 installed and compile the latest svn? 14:42:51 <Ammler> I guess, you can't even build trunk without compiling data too 14:43:01 <glx> having both is not a problem 14:43:05 <Rubidium> dail: ./configure --prefix-dir=/usr and then recompiling probably does the trick 14:43:31 <Rubidium> but then you must not install it, as it'll overwrite your "current (Ubuntu)" installation 14:43:52 <Ammler> or symlink /usr/share/openttd/data to /usr/local/share/openttd/data 14:44:09 <dail> so if i do the command above and then "make" i should be able to run it form the bin dir 14:44:37 <Ammler> Rubidium: you really recommend to install something to /usr? :-) 14:45:08 <Rubidium> Ammler: to distros? Yes, for normal people... no 14:45:40 <Rubidium> Ammler: but then... I seem to remember some time ago saying that you must not install if you use /usr as prefix-dir 14:46:14 <glx> like 2 min ago ? 14:46:41 <Rubidium> glx: yes 14:46:57 <Rubidium> but I'm not that sure about my short term memory anymore 14:47:05 *** lewymati [~lewymati@89.230.159.206] has quit [] 14:48:05 <Ammler> ah, I see 14:48:13 <Ammler> but then you lose the data there? 14:48:55 <glx> why? 14:49:04 <Rubidium> Ammler: are you telling me that /usr/local stuff gets overwritten by doing a simple make? 14:49:14 *** Yexo [~Yexo@77-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 14:49:18 <Rubidium> damn... I really must've lost touch with OpenTTD's behaviour lately 14:49:23 <dail> Rubidium: rerunning the configure with the prefix dir fixed it!!!! Thanks! 14:49:29 <Ammler> no, I meant the local build 14:49:30 <Rubidium> oh... there's Yexo again... fris & fruitig 14:49:45 <Yexo> good afternoon 14:49:55 * Yexo is just back from finland 14:50:31 <__ln__> whoot 14:50:56 <__ln__> can't be, i didn't see you 14:53:27 * Rubidium still has no clue what Ammler's babbling about 14:53:38 <Ammler> nvm, I was a bit confused 14:57:16 <Ammler> why does ubuntu split openttd, do they supply a dedicated version? 14:57:57 <Ammler> or is that because of noarch? 14:58:05 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:59:27 <Ammler> hmm, or debug maybe 14:59:40 <Yexo> __ln__: no idea where you live, but I was in the area around kauhajoki 15:02:46 <Belugas> #Without you Everything falls apart 15:06:37 *** perk111 [~perk11@178.34.156.89] has joined #openttd 15:09:57 <Rubidium> Ammler: noarch and because they leech from Debian 15:10:31 *** tdev [~udev@p508EA263.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: free open source vehicle simulator: http://rigsofrods.com] 15:10:44 <Rubidium> and there it saves 13*2124 KiB 15:11:03 <Rubidium> so, 27 MiB 15:11:26 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:80e3:c369:90d7:69d6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:11:33 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the cost of 1MB of storage nowadays? 15:11:38 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:80e3:c369:90d7:69d6] has joined #openttd 15:11:41 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 15:12:11 <Ammler> well, it is also useful for dedicated and debug build 15:12:33 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: not much, but some of Debian's compilers have very slow uploads, so saving 50+% is significant 15:12:37 <Ammler> suse does that too 15:12:49 *** perk11 [~perk11@178.34.100.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:13:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i was under the impression that -debug packages are just addons to the normal packages 15:13:39 <Eddi|zuHause> so that point is silly 15:13:56 <dih> that actually does not make a whole load of sense 15:14:46 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: not building 15:14:49 <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: You're right, that's usually the case nowadays 15:15:28 <blathijs> There's a separate "symbols" file that can be loaded by gdb apart from the binary 15:15:43 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's what i mean 15:16:16 <blathijs> And even for storage, splitting is worthwhile 15:16:17 <glx> like the pdb for windows then 15:16:33 <blathijs> The entire Debian archive is quite big, there's only a few full mirrors because of that 15:16:36 <Ammler> to the debug build does have the non-debug as required? 15:17:20 <blathijs> Ammler: I think so. But it's not so much a debug build or non-debug build 15:17:38 <dih> sugarcrm is a pain 15:17:50 <Rubidium> dih: no... it's perfect 15:17:53 <blathijs> Ammler: The build happens with debug symbols on. Then some program extracts the symbols into one package, and strips them from the binaries into the main package 15:17:55 <dih> trying to create conference management with sugarcrm :-P 15:17:59 <Rubidium> (for losing information) 15:18:02 <dih> and _that_ rather is a pain 15:18:21 <dih> i don't want to have to write stuff manually :-P 15:18:49 <Rubidium> then don't use a tool that isn't designed for it 15:19:00 <Rubidium> like using word for sending someone screenshots 15:19:09 <dih> not quite! 15:19:10 <Ammler> that is why you don't need strip on building 15:19:29 <dih> sugarcrm does already have things i could utilize :-P 15:19:34 <dih> hehe 15:19:43 * Rubidium spots a pretty big desync 15:22:50 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@5e0adfd1.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 15:23:03 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 15:24:34 * Eddi|zuHause gathers the villagers and some pitchforks, to hunt down the nasty desync 15:25:00 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: head south please :) 15:25:16 <devilsadvocate> is FIRS complete(ish) for Arctic/Temperate? (I find only a meat packing plant and dairy which can produce food, and no industry which accepts grain and fruit and vegetable) 15:25:29 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.6.83.168] has joined #openttd 15:26:03 *** dail [ae654110@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 15:26:21 <Eddi|zuHause> "find" as in "is on the map" or as in "is in the list of foundable industries"? 15:28:29 *** kyo [~kyo@92.9.53.51] has joined #openttd 15:29:04 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0aa27e.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:29:04 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 15:31:30 *** Sacro is now known as Guest606 15:31:31 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-77-86-107-188.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 15:31:41 *** dfox [~dfox@r6l51.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:32:28 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-67-91.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 15:32:45 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-25-5-181.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:35:57 <devilsadvocate> "find" as in in the list of industries below the map. havent checked the list of fundable industries, though, but i do see '0's next to some industries, so i assume everything is on the list 15:36:41 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4cd5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:37:25 *** Guest606 [~ben@adsl-77-86-107-188.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:39:08 <__ln__> Yexo: 17:59 < Yexo> __ln__: no idea where you live, but I was in the area around kauhajoki <--- innnteresting, kauhajoki is exactly where i'm from originally! although i live elsewhere now. 15:40:30 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 15:41:46 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.216.247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:43:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.216.247] has joined #openttd 15:49:24 *** lolman_ is now known as lolman 15:53:00 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-174-53.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 15:55:07 <Eddi|zuHause> devilsadvocate: as far as i see it, the brewery accepts fruits and vegetables 15:55:19 <Eddi|zuHause> see http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/industries for more information 15:55:28 <devilsadvocate> oh, thanks 15:55:34 * devilsadvocate searches for a brewery 15:55:58 <Eddi|zuHause> those are typically found in cities ;) 15:56:24 *** nanoha-sama [nanohataka@cg4l3001.smb.curriegrad2004.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:57:50 *** nanoha-sama [~ntakamach@cg4l3001.smb.curriegrad2004.ca] has joined #openttd 16:01:55 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-202-105.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:03:00 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-174-53.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03:03 *** DX_Ipad [Dreamxtrem@92.18.186.129] has joined #openttd 16:03:26 *** Dreamxtreme [Dreamxtrem@92.10.85.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:04:12 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-214-148.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 16:04:15 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 16:05:36 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:11:26 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 16:15:42 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-77-86-107-188.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Sacro] 16:16:01 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-77-86-107-188.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 16:17:12 <andythenorth> devilsadvocate: FIRS is complete 'enough' for Arctic / Temperate 16:17:19 <andythenorth> all cargo chains work 16:17:27 <andythenorth> game is reasonably well balanced 16:22:39 *** TheWrongGame [~chatzilla@178.34.183.136] has joined #openttd 16:23:06 <TheWrongGame> Hi. 16:24:44 *** TheWrongGame is now known as JustWrong 16:26:40 <JustWrong> I hate all the "real-time strategies that have no actual strategy, just clicking sessions - like Warcraft 3. 16:27:45 <dih> i hate people who just randomly enter a chat channel, constantly change their nick, and only moan about something nobody else in the channel cares about 16:30:02 <Markk> dih: +1 16:30:05 <JustWrong> Just compare a proper RTS like tycoon series, and a Warcraft/CnC "clicking session". 16:30:20 <Markk> Should we discuss this? 16:30:26 <dih> ha! did not get the hint! 16:30:30 <Markk> dih: :D 16:30:39 <dih> poor sodd 16:31:06 <Markk> Everyone can feel whatever they fancy about games. 16:31:46 <dih> just they do not have to express it in channles only because nobody else in the world wants to listen to their jibber jabber 16:32:26 <Markk> Mm 16:32:28 <perk111> JustWrong: Actually Warcraft has a strategy, it's not just a clicking session 16:32:37 <dih> well done perk111 !! 16:32:46 <dih> thank you for successfully engaging 16:32:58 <perk111> Thanks 16:33:03 <perk111> :) 16:33:43 <Alberth> good luck with it perk111 16:33:45 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 16:33:57 <JustWrong> next step, compare a skullbob game like "Sea Dogs" and S.M. Pirates! 16:34:08 <dih> perk111: yeah... that was no compliment :-P 16:34:24 <perk111> dih: I understood that 16:34:28 <dih> does he not get it? 16:34:38 <dih> nobody is interested in his little chit chat 16:35:18 <Markk> JustWrong: We're talking about you mate. 16:35:48 <JustWrong> After those comparisons, you will see that Microprose/Firaxis are the only ones to actually succeed in game-making, not failsome crap like modern games 16:36:12 <__ln__> JustWrong: End of discussion. 16:36:19 <perk111> JustWrong: that's just yout opinion, and everyone already got it 16:36:50 *** perk111 is now known as perk11 16:36:51 <VVG> andythenorth: i have a small complain about FIRS balance :p 16:37:04 <JustWrong> TTD is a Microprose product, and the one whose open ramake is the most complete one. 16:37:24 <dih> wow - this kidd just goes on and on 16:37:30 *** JustWrong [~chatzilla@178.34.183.136] has left #openttd [/part] 16:37:31 <VVG> andythenorth: atm it looks like it heavly biased towards mines, with them having production 10 times bigger than farms. 16:37:31 <dih> aint there no +q for such kids? 16:37:36 <Eddi|zuHause> <__ln__> JustWrong: End of discussion. <-- that phrase is typically followed by a *plonk* 16:37:49 <dih> :-P 16:38:48 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: it should have 10 times as many farms... 16:39:05 <VVG> but it does not right now 16:40:18 <VVG> after some time industries start to close down, and it seems hard getting good farm clusters later on 16:42:11 <Eddi|zuHause> that is true 16:46:42 * Rubidium hasn't looked at those "competitive" OpenTTD players... that's a clickfest as well 16:48:45 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0adfd1.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:49:14 *** KouDy [~KouDy@rb5ck203.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 16:50:56 *** Uresu [~Wes@5ace7b52.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:55:32 *** Uresu [~Wes@5ace7b52.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:24 <BCMM> is it ever possible to link to airports? 16:57:38 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0afe1e.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:59:57 <PeterT> BCMM: no 17:10:25 <Eddi|zuHause> with cargodist you can do a shuttle service 17:10:37 *** Yexo [~Yexo@77-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:11:51 <Eddi|zuHause> feature request: can we have sane limits on string lengths? like 256 instead of 30 characters... 17:12:39 <Eddi|zuHause> wtf is a "Crazybrowser"? 17:12:56 <Eddi|zuHause> but that only confirms my initial suspicion 17:13:20 <andythenorth> evening all 17:14:38 *** Yexo [~Yexo@77-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 17:14:47 *** Adambean` [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 17:15:26 *** kyo_ [~kyo@92.9.53.51] has joined #openttd 17:15:34 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: and then you're going to complain that the $random_this_with_name doesn't fit in $some_window? Or that $flag_name isn't drawn correctly on the viewport? 17:16:32 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe we need line-wrap in signs 17:16:32 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: it's a crazy thing that makes OpenTTD seem to do strange things when OpenTTD is actually doing exactly what it should do based on its inputs 17:17:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i often run into character limits when trying to make my group names descriptive 17:18:02 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:18:05 <Rubidium> it'll still fails with 256 characters 17:18:16 <Eddi|zuHause> it's like making 8.3 filenames descriptive 17:18:32 <Rubidium> at least if you want something like "$town - $town - ..." where $town is also 256 characters 17:18:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never run out of space in a 256 characters filename 17:19:35 *** duckblaster [~duckblast@202-65-53-187.xdsl.net.oyster.net.ck] has joined #openttd 17:19:37 <Eddi|zuHause> there are already line wrap functions for chat, right? how difficult would it be to adapt them to signs? 17:19:47 *** Adambean [~AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:20:24 <Rubidium> it's not how difficult, but how much work and how hard it'll backfire 17:20:34 <Alberth> non-trivial 17:20:42 <Alberth> console has a known width eg 17:21:26 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.182.21] has joined #openttd 17:21:29 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you e.g. define signs as a maximum of 256 pixels and word-wrap on that width 17:21:32 <Alberth> + the console line wrapping is custom for the console due to having to drop the first part of a line 17:22:18 <Eddi|zuHause> and doesn't the settings window also word-wrap? 17:22:20 <Alberth> I think we have a function for that already 17:22:20 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but then 17:22:27 <Rubidium> "hello foo bar foo bar foo" 17:22:30 <Rubidium> "bar" 17:22:46 <Rubidium> and people will complain it takes too much space and such 17:22:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yes. so? 17:22:50 *** kyo [~kyo@92.9.53.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:22:50 <Rubidium> and that is should be done 17:22:58 <Rubidium> "hello foo bar" 17:23:01 <Rubidium> "foo bar foo bar" 17:23:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: you reply that you're not building a layout engine 17:24:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: you're just trying to come up with silly arguments now. that doesn't count ;) 17:25:07 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: no, I'm trying to stay ahead of all the bug reports that will happen because of such a change 17:25:24 <Rubidium> saying that it breaks the network protocol would be a silly argument 17:25:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: that's the typical "reach them a finger and they want the whole hand" situation 17:26:17 <Rubidium> yep 17:26:50 <Rubidium> in any case... not all strings can be made longer due to protocol constraints (by you probably don't care about those) 17:26:54 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@119.11.18.252] has joined #openttd 17:27:05 *** Jupix [~jupix@dsl-lprbrasgw1-fee4df00-82.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Server closed connection] 17:27:06 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.216.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:27:07 *** Jupix [~jupix@dsl-lprbrasgw1-fee4df00-82.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 17:27:29 <Eddi|zuHause> indeed, i don't care about network 17:28:35 <Rubidium> e.g. company name can't be made significantly longer 17:28:40 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a welsh town name set, right? how did they fit that name in the sign? 17:29:25 <Rubidium> dunno... the welsh seem kinda silent lately 17:32:14 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC51D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:33:24 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 17:33:52 <Doorslammer> That's the best type of Welsh though, the silent ones :P 17:33:59 *** George is now known as Guest635 17:34:17 *** FloSoft [bouncer@www.siedler25.org] has quit [Server closed connection] 17:34:18 *** FloSoft [bouncer@www.siedler25.org] has joined #openttd 17:35:50 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4E34.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:37:51 *** sparr [~sparr@c-24-98-228-62.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 17:39:34 *** Guest399 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:40:52 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 17:41:26 *** PierreW [sbnc@get-free-money-to-poker-with-at.no-deposit.info] has quit [Server closed connection] 17:41:26 *** PierreW [sbnc@get-free-money-to-poker-with-at.no-deposit.info] has joined #openttd 17:45:32 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: translators * r20198 /trunk/src/lang/ (portuguese.txt unfinished/chuvash.txt): 17:45:32 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:32 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: chuvash - 39 changes by mefisteron 17:45:32 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: portuguese - 31 changes by ABCRic, SupSuper 17:53:40 *** BCMM [~ben@78.32.73.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:56:05 *** duckblaster [~duckblast@202-65-53-187.xdsl.net.oyster.net.ck] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:09:55 *** kyo_ [~kyo@92.9.53.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:11:03 *** snorre [~snorre@c692BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Server closed connection] 18:11:15 *** snorre [~snorre@c692BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 18:19:04 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:21:02 *** SirSquidness [~sirsquidn@au.dongues.com] has quit [Server closed connection] 18:21:07 *** SirSquidness [~sirsquidn@au.dongues.com] has joined #openttd 18:27:17 *** JustWrong [~chatzilla@178.34.183.136] has joined #openttd 18:27:22 *** JustWrong [~chatzilla@178.34.183.136] has left #openttd [] 18:28:22 *** game-report [~chatzilla@178.34.183.136] has joined #openttd 18:31:34 <game-report> [report] Mediazona OTTD ( http://www.openttd.org/de/server/32360 ) belongs to a commercial organization - South TeleCom. Mediazona is their community portal. That's against the GPL. [/report] 18:32:20 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:33:43 <Rubidium> game-report: in what way do you think they violate GPL? 18:34:00 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:35:26 <game-report> a commercial organization must not use GPLed software "for outside" 18:35:34 <Yexo> why not? 18:35:34 <Eddi|zuHause> what happened to the *plonk* i suggested earlier? 18:36:17 <Yexo> game-report: GPL has no special restrictions with regards to using it "commercially" 18:36:58 <Yexo> it's just not done that often because you have to deliver the source code with any binaries you offer (and you can't charge seperately for the source code), and anyone can than distribute the source code / binaries you sold 18:37:03 <Yexo> so it's pointless but not forbidden in any way 18:38:16 <Eddi|zuHause> GPL'ed software is commonly found in routers and similar embedded hardware, which is sold commercially 18:38:34 <Eddi|zuHause> although those companies did often violate the GPL, by not providing the source 18:38:42 <andythenorth> we 'sell' commercial GPL software all day every day 18:38:55 <andythenorth> although people don't buy it all day every day :P 18:39:11 <Noldo_> too bad for you 18:39:12 <andythenorth> if they did (a) I'd be rich, and (b) we'd have a lot more newgrfs (and feature requests) 18:39:16 <Wolf01> we pirate commercial closed source software every day, so we are pair 18:41:26 <Rubidium> even so... from what I've seen here we're talking about a company that runs a GPL-ed binary. It isn't distributing it, it isn't selling it, so what is it doing wrong? 18:42:10 <andythenorth> nothing 18:42:22 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 18:42:59 *** George is now known as Guest648 18:43:59 <frosch123> maybe it's not called apple 18:44:16 <game-report> In mediazona's "games" section, there's a link to openttd.org, wikipedia entry and a binary on their ftp, plus they run a server of openTTD. 18:45:05 <Eddi|zuHause> you can easily judge that by having a link to openttd.org, they are providing the source 18:46:19 <game-report> but it is not clear if they use "original", "terragenesis" or their own "map randomizer". 18:46:26 *** kyo [~kyo@92.9.53.51] has joined #openttd 18:46:39 <Eddi|zuHause> that's clearly no part of the GPL 18:46:41 <Rubidium> doesn't matter... 18:47:08 <game-report> if the map randomizer used with the game is their own, it's already a violation 18:47:28 <Eddi|zuHause> no 18:47:32 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not 18:47:37 <__ln__> Yexo: so what was there to see at kauhajoki? 18:47:38 <Eddi|zuHause> they're allowed to modify their server 18:47:46 <Eddi|zuHause> like the "goal servers" 18:47:57 <Eddi|zuHause> they don't need to supply the server code 18:48:01 *** svip [~svip@prussia.theinfosphere.org] has quit [Server closed connection] 18:48:01 *** svip [~svip@prussia.theinfosphere.org] has joined #openttd 18:48:05 <Rubidium> we're not using AGPL 18:48:35 *** Guest635 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:48:39 <Rubidium> so... local server modifications are perfectly fine as long as you give the people you give the binaries to also access to the (changed) sources 18:49:18 <Yexo> __ln__: I was 2 weeks in a voluntary working camp, first week in IkkelÀjÀrvi 18:49:36 <Yexo> part of the work was around the youth house there 18:50:18 <Yexo> only visited kauhajoki 2 times, viewed a finnish basebal game (very weird game btw) and walked around a bit 18:50:22 <Yexo> not very interesting 18:50:28 * game-report summons a Ford Trimotor and a cop car. 18:51:06 <__ln__> yeah, admittedly there's nothing so interesting to see. 18:51:35 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF86A1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:51:49 <Eddi|zuHause> do i dare asking what finnish baseball looks like? 18:52:18 <Yexo> yes, I'll direct you here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pes%C3%A4pallo 18:52:21 <Eddi|zuHause> *miau* it says next to me... 18:52:39 <frosch123> it takes place in a sauna 18:53:10 <Noldo_> aah, PesÀpallo <3 18:53:24 <game-report> finnish basketball is ok, but their special kind of football... is c.r.a.p. 18:53:39 <Rubidium> oh, I thought it was played by hitting that candy ln took with him instead of a ball 18:54:10 * andythenorth finds an unusual road-rail vehicle: http://www.ontrackplant.com/photo/qts_sf58ozj 18:55:02 <Eddi|zuHause> how is that unusual? our tram company has a similar vehicle 18:55:10 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@119.11.18.252] has quit [] 18:55:13 <__ln__> game-report: there's no special kind of finnish football. 18:55:23 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: your tram company has a log forwarder? 18:55:33 <game-report> bog football 18:55:58 <frosch123> hmm, i registered to dorpsgek, but did not yet bother to upgrade... 18:56:20 <frosch123> *to ask tb 18:56:58 <game-report> that vehicle - could be good as a newgrf to help deal with colliding trains 18:57:19 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba9d2e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:58:40 <Rubidium> @whoami 18:58:40 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: I don't recognize you. 18:58:51 <Rubidium> grr.... you stupid woman! 18:58:53 <PeterT> frosch123: and if you don't want to identify every time, just add your hostmask to your account 18:59:03 <frosch123> @whoami 18:59:03 <DorpsGek> frosch123: frosch 18:59:04 <__ln__> Yexo: anyway, congratulations for visiting my original home town. :) 18:59:13 *** mode/#openttd [+o frosch123] by ChanServ 18:59:15 <frosch123> she knows me anyway :) 18:59:33 <PeterT> :) 18:59:44 <PeterT> @op PeterT ;) 18:59:51 <DorpsGek> boo 18:59:54 <game-report> is there a mode on IRC to forbid OPing someone? 19:00:08 <PeterT> game-report: no, but only ops can op each other 19:00:11 <PeterT> :D 19:00:11 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no, but a truck/crane that can run on both roads and rails 19:00:31 <PeterT> @say #openttd boo back 19:00:31 <DorpsGek> boo back 19:00:52 <game-report> @bot-offload 19:01:12 * game-report explodes 19:01:23 <PeterT> game-report: why would you want to forbid opping? 19:01:52 <game-report> if one op forgets that someone (or some IP) must never be an operator 19:02:26 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: such a thing will soon be provided to you 19:02:29 <Yexo> that's just stupid, normally only a few "known" people should be operator 19:02:30 <Rubidium> game-report: there is a mode m for that 19:02:39 *** mode/#openttd [+o Rubidium] by ChanServ 19:02:56 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: dunno if a tram version is worth it though? 19:03:11 <game-report> for example, never op people from STC DSL Novorossiysk. 19:03:21 *** game-report [~chatzilla@178.34.183.136] has left #openttd [] 19:03:54 <Eddi|zuHause> always op people who say "i'm a rl friend of chanserv" 19:04:18 <Yexo> i'm a rl friend of chanserv 19:04:27 *** mode/#openttd [+o Yexo] by DorpsGek 19:04:28 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you mean for transporting wood on "industrial" tram lines? 19:04:48 <andythenorth> no - that's too esoteric even for me 19:04:54 <andythenorth> but the truck version 19:05:06 *** mode/#openttd [+m] by Rubidium 19:05:47 <Yexo> it's quiet this way 19:06:29 *** mode/#openttd [-m] by Rubidium 19:06:32 <PeterT> \o/ 19:09:55 *** mode/#openttd [+q *!*@178.34.183.136] by Rubidium 19:10:01 <Eddi|zuHause> hm.. one *miau* leaves, other *miau* comes... 19:12:01 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: http://www.ontrackplant.com/photo/trac_sv090 19:18:10 *** KenjiE20 is now known as Guest656 19:18:13 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.18.177.40] has joined #openttd 19:21:42 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba9d2e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:30 *** Guest656 [~KenjiE20@92.6.83.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:25:53 <andythenorth> bah 19:25:56 * andythenorth blew up the gam 19:25:58 <andythenorth> e 19:27:02 <Eddi|zuHause> come on, you really enjoy that :p 19:27:46 <Rubidium> he likes pulling mbs 19:28:53 * Eddi|zuHause invents a new sports: extreme mb-ing 19:30:21 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc3-pres13-2-0-cust333.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:30:35 * andythenorth is a little baffled 19:30:49 <andythenorth> what is this sport of which you speak? 19:32:22 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: hmm, yeah maybe what andy does is extreme mb-ing 19:32:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: repeatedly telling "there's a bug" without saying which bug, and if asked which bug, telling that you mentioned it before, referring to a cryptic unreferencable discussion on a remote forum in a foreign language, or a thread of emails/pms which were never published 19:33:02 <andythenorth> no bugs 19:33:06 <andythenorth> well except with my code 19:33:21 <andythenorth> and there's not a great deal of benefit in reporting those 19:33:23 <andythenorth> :P 19:35:13 <Eddi|zuHause> imho, no NewGRF action should be able to crash the game, even if the big red warning box says so 19:36:54 * Yexo agrees with Eddi|zuHause 19:37:11 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: it's a nice aspiration. Would you like me to start posting a broken newgrf, savegame and a crash log every time I cause this 19:37:19 <andythenorth> :P 19:37:46 <Yexo> andythenorth: just a very small grf that crashes the game every time you (start a new game / build an industry / on next month / etc.) 19:37:46 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes, it's up to the devs to decide "wontfix" status 19:38:52 <andythenorth> and what about when I change sprites and reload_newgrfs? 19:45:06 *** perk11 [~perk11@178.34.156.89] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 19:48:40 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 19:48:55 <VVG> I can produce such a broken grf, that with certaion action crashes openttd :) 19:49:09 <VVG> 20146 for sure 19:54:42 <Yexo> VVG: than by all means do so and create a bugreport with that grf attached 20:01:46 *** Adambean` [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 20:06:00 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-228-50.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:08:00 *** KenjiE20 is now known as Guest664 20:08:04 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.22.70.121] has joined #openttd 20:09:52 <VVG> May be it will suffice to just report here? It's only a few simple steps, that break the already working grf, which in turn then may cause a crash 20:13:15 *** Guest664 [~KenjiE20@92.18.177.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:13:22 <VVG> oh nvm, i forgot i recently registered at bugs.openttd.org 20:15:28 <devilsadvocate> gah. 80% of my forests disappeared :( 20:15:33 <VVG> I am not allowed to upload a modified version of someone else newgrf to bugs.openttd.org, right? 20:16:21 <Yexo> that depends on the licence of the newgrf 20:16:42 <VVG> tar 20:16:54 <VVG> tar's license.txt says GNU GPL version 3 20:18:33 <Yexo> so you can distribute the modified grf if you also distribute the modified source of it 20:19:08 <VVG> Does the grf itself count as source? 20:19:38 <Yexo> if you decompiled the grf, modified it, then compiled it again I guess it could 20:19:57 <VVG> ok 20:22:11 * andythenorth starts converting HEQS to pikka templates :P 20:22:15 <andythenorth> big job 20:22:17 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-25-5-181.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:22:20 <andythenorth> might cheat 20:23:57 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:24:33 <VVG> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3964 there, is it ok? 20:26:18 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4cd5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:08 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... from 1549 to 1874, the height of the highest building in the world decreased. from 1311 until 1549 the cathedral of Lincoln (England) at 159,7m, until 1625 the church of Reval (now Tallin, Estonia) at 159m, until 1647 the church of Stralsund (Germany) at 151m and until 1874 the MÃŒnster of StraÃburg (then Germany, now France) at 142m 20:30:05 <Eddi|zuHause> *Tallinn 20:37:07 <VVG> But before that it was stable for something like 4k years, with the height of about 140 meters :) 20:40:43 <__ln__> "A form Tallin deriving from the Romanization of Russian spelling of the name ТаÌллОМ was also used internationally during the era Estonia was annexed by the Soviet Union." 20:45:24 <Wolf01> 'night 20:45:32 <__ln__> 'nighttt 20:45:35 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host41-235-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:46:22 <Belugas> NIGHT INDEED! 20:46:26 <Belugas> ?me goes POOOOF 20:46:36 <Belugas> gggrrrrrrr 20:46:40 * Belugas goes POOOOF 20:46:46 <Eddi|zuHause> official language in Reval was German until 1889 20:47:10 <Eddi|zuHause> it was renamed to Tallinn in 1918, after Estonia declared its independence 20:48:23 <VVG> A legacy from Teutonic and/or Livonic orders? 20:48:51 *** KenjiE20 is now known as Guest670 20:48:55 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.23.29.206] has joined #openttd 20:48:57 <Eddi|zuHause> that, and importance of the Hanse in international trading 20:49:26 <Eddi|zuHause> so the upper class (traders and nobility) were mostly german 20:50:50 <Eddi|zuHause> even when it was temporarily ruled by danes, swedes and russians 20:51:33 <__ln__> the last time danes or swedes ruled anything 20:52:45 <Chruker> danes still rule everything, it is just the rest of you thats in denial 20:53:05 *** Guest670 [~KenjiE20@92.22.70.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:54:02 <Eddi|zuHause> in german we say "da ist was faul im Staate DÀnemark" 20:54:22 <Eddi|zuHause> not entirely sure where that comes from 20:54:51 <Chruker> shakespeare / hamlet (maybe) 20:55:04 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly 21:01:15 *** KouDy [~KouDy@rb5ck203.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:04:18 <__ln__> the relevant monty python link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLmWrDTvhoE&#t=8m44s 21:05:07 *** tdev [~tdev@p508EA263.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:05:27 *** perk11 [~perk11@178.34.178.42] has joined #openttd 21:06:51 <VVG> what does that german saying means? 21:08:29 <VVG> monty python link is in german :( 21:12:18 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: heffer] 21:12:35 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: a1270] 21:22:41 <bryjen> there is something rotten in the state of Denmark 21:25:57 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d823c2b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: gn8] 21:26:32 <Ammler> are the bounding boxes for the base sets somewhere documented? 21:28:41 * Yexo thinks only in the source code 21:29:20 *** KenjiE20 is now known as Guest678 21:29:24 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.1.54.111] has joined #openttd 21:33:55 *** Guest678 [~KenjiE20@92.23.29.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:38:24 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@c122-108-245-233.kelvn3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 21:38:40 <Pikka> yeah I know 21:41:09 <Eddi|zuHause> price of one tram ride: 1.8.1919: 20 Pfennig, 14.7.1923: 1500 Mark, 24.11.1923: 150 Mrd. Mark, 25.11.1923: 15 Pfennig (today: around 1,50â¬) 21:44:15 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF86A1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:46:28 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: yes, monty python produced an episode in german 21:47:11 <__ln__> that looks very dubbed (or the lipsync is very bad on youtube), but apparently dubbed by themselves 21:49:33 <Eddi|zuHause> official german dubs are usually good at lipsynching 21:50:23 *** Aali [~aali@h-90-31.A189.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Server closed connection] 21:50:35 *** Aali [~aali@h-90-31.A189.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 21:51:04 <VVG> You have dubs for all alien stuff in Germany? 21:51:25 *** perk11 [~perk11@178.34.178.42] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 21:51:47 <Eddi|zuHause> we have dubs for pretty much all stuff in germany 21:52:04 <Eddi|zuHause> even Borat... 21:52:19 <__ln__> and japanese in Heroes 21:52:23 <VVG> just wondering. I know it's mostly subs in Finland and dubs for everthing in Russia, no idea about other countries. 21:52:29 <Eddi|zuHause> which is silly, because it removes all the funny stuff... 21:53:52 <Eddi|zuHause> subs i have only ever seen on MTV productions 21:54:59 <__ln__> borat joking about jews, dubbed in german, hmm... 21:55:17 <Eddi|zuHause> some rare minor cinemas occationally show films in original language with subtitles ("OmU", "Originalton mit Untertiteln") 21:56:37 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: in lord of the rings, was elvish dubbed? 21:56:57 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it was subbed 21:57:25 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.1.54.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:57:37 <Eddi|zuHause> the japanese stuff from heroes was a silly thing to do... the korean in lost was subbed, and nobody complained... 21:59:26 <Eddi|zuHause> it made heroes totally ununderstandable... Hiro switched from good german (when speaking japanese) to bad german (when speaking english) for no apparent reason 22:01:59 <__ln__> something like 10 years ago a tv channel here made an experiment, and they dubbed some programmes into finnish for a week. the feedback was very negative as far as i know, and people felt uncomfortable watching those. 22:03:04 <Eddi|zuHause> were the dubs "german" or "polish" [quality, not language] 22:03:28 <VVG> what's the difference? 22:03:51 <__ln__> in polish, one male voice reads all roles, and the original sounds can be heard in the background 22:03:59 <VVG> oh 22:04:32 <Eddi|zuHause> german=professional actors, lip synchronisation. polish=one guy even for female characters, speaking over the original sound, which still can be heard in the background 22:04:37 <VVG> i thouhht that should be called voiceover 22:04:47 <VVG> never heard it called "polish dub" 22:05:17 <Rubidium> I *always* get annoyed by dubs 22:05:31 <ccfreak2k> Rubidium, how about vdubs? 22:05:39 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a matter of how you grow up 22:06:10 <Eddi|zuHause> dubs have some serious disadvantages 22:06:10 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:06:15 <Rubidium> and what is worst is Dutch dubbed to English on the Polish way and that subbed... and the subtitles use completely different words than what was actually said 22:06:19 <VVG> as a grown up, you still can change your opinion. Atleast you can come to think that dubs sucks :) 22:06:26 <Eddi|zuHause> but subs have others 22:06:45 <Eddi|zuHause> if you are used to subs growing up, dubs may seem a step backwards 22:07:05 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: something in between; read by more or less professional actors (many of them), but probably the original sound was in the background. 22:07:16 <Eddi|zuHause> if you grow up with dubs, subs may distract you from the visual flow of the movie 22:07:27 <Rubidium> just look at the shows you grew up with and never noticed it was dubbed and now get annoyed really quickly 22:08:13 <__ln__> and one shouldn't underestimate the entertainment value of watching a TNG episode with dutch subtitles 22:08:13 <VVG> You can grow up with dubs and then get used to subs to the point they don't distract you much 22:08:17 <Rubidium> and subs can be very annoying as well, especially if the translator didn't get the joke and the translation totally sucks 22:08:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i much rather have turtles dubbed than subbed, when i know neither english, nor can read... 22:09:21 <VVG> Rubidium: isn't that a fault of translation, and not a way of showing it? 22:09:31 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: i had subs for a year or two when i started watching original series, but they are _really_ distracting you from what's happening 22:09:47 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Server closed connection] 22:09:52 <Rubidium> VVG: yes, but the subs are really distracting you in that case 22:09:55 <__ln__> children's programmes and movies are mostly dubbed here. movies with human actors very rarely even if meant for children. 22:09:55 <Eddi|zuHause> so i stopped the subs after i grew confident in understanding most of the english dialog 22:10:00 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 22:10:01 <Rubidium> or when they aren't "in sync" 22:11:24 *** SmatZ [~SmatZ@vs241204.vserver.de] has quit [Server closed connection] 22:11:27 <Eddi|zuHause> is it "dialogue"? 22:12:11 <Rubidium> Merriam thinks it is 22:12:31 <Eddi|zuHause> one of the silly french remnants... 22:12:37 <VVG> hee. I tend to use english subs for english movies exactly because i'm not confident in understandiong all of the english dialog :9 22:12:48 *** SmatZ [~SmatZ@vs241204.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 22:12:49 <__ln__> dialogue is the british, probably 22:13:01 *** planetmaker [~pm@vs241204.vserver.de] has quit [Server closed connection] 22:13:09 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, these french derivates are often cause for AE/BE differences 22:13:37 <Eddi|zuHause> "ou" vs. "u", "re" vs "er" etc. 22:13:40 <__ln__> it was a mistake to start loaning words from french 22:13:48 *** planetmaker [~pm@vs241204.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 22:14:05 <Eddi|zuHause> german has also a lot of french loan words 22:14:31 <Rubidium> Oxford says (US also dialog) 22:15:04 <Eddi|zuHause> "ou" vs. "o" i meant... 22:15:49 <Eddi|zuHause> but often, these french loan words are older than the german spelling 22:15:59 <Eddi|zuHause> which explains words like "BÃŒro" 22:17:31 <Rubidium> oh.. my.. that Spanish guy is really putting a lot of effort into the "compile on mac" article 22:18:06 <Eddi|zuHause> the last spelling reform of 1996 tried to "germanify" some french words, like "portemonnaie" -> "portmonee" 22:18:59 *** Zahl [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:79e7:2630:fbab:fbb5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:03 *** Zahl [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:79e7:2630:fbab:fbb5] has joined #openttd 22:19:15 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:48 <VVG> How was it received by public? 22:20:04 <Eddi|zuHause> the spelling reform overall? very mixed to rejective... 22:20:28 <Eddi|zuHause> some rules were changed back and forth, until it was finalized in 2006 or so... 22:21:34 <__ln__> and someone sued germany because of the reform..? 22:21:36 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has quit [Quit: Quit] 22:21:42 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: we had "kado" and "cadeau", and now only "cadeau" is valid 22:22:42 <Eddi|zuHause> one of the most silly rules of the reform: english-derived words ending on -y do not change to -ies but to -ys when forming plural 22:23:31 <Rubidium> oh... so that explains all those people writing stuff like librarys 22:23:33 <VVG> indy-indys looks funny :) 22:23:50 <Eddi|zuHause> one of the best rules of the reform: greek-derived words don't require knowledge of greek anymore when hyphenating (e.g. Chi-rurg instead of Chir-urg) 22:24:41 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: do they also have some rule so said becomes saied and paid becomes paied? And sometimes says becomed saies? 22:25:07 <Eddi|zuHause> some words got "both are valid" rules. e.g. "Ketchup" and "Ketschup" 22:25:32 <Eddi|zuHause> although i think that was one of the disputed back-and-forth rules 22:25:38 <Eoin> its just tomato sauce 22:25:39 <Eoin> :L 22:26:20 <Eddi|zuHause> "Herkunft: englisch: ketchup, ÃŒber malaiisch: kecap von Amoy-chinesisch (Hokkien, Min): kÃŽechiap oder kê-tsiap, geschrieben èæ± (TomatensoÃe) oder é®æ± (FischsoÃe)" 22:28:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: afaik, none of the english loan words in german contain "saied", "paied" or anything similar... loan verbs from english get usually fit into german conjugation 22:28:57 <Rubidium> hmm... so Ketjap and Ketchup are the same word 22:29:11 *** dih [~dih@znc.noaddedsugar.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 22:29:21 *** dihedral [~dih@znc.noaddedsugar.net] has joined #openttd 22:29:26 <Eddi|zuHause> what's Ketjap? 22:29:50 <Rubidium> some soy-ish sauce from Indonesia 22:31:35 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@c122-108-245-233.kelvn3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:31:35 <__ln__> indeed muchos effort put in Compilar_en_Mac, screenshotses and all 22:31:39 <Rubidium> although the Kanji looks different 22:32:22 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@c122-108-245-233.kelvn3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 22:32:48 <Rubidium> but then another translation of the wiki does link it "directly" to é® (kÃŽe) æ± (chiap) 22:35:43 * Rubidium wonders why he did start at the Dutch Ketjap page... the Dutch Ketchup page says it's the same word 22:38:20 <Eddi|zuHause> weird... the first google result for Ketjap is the nl.wikipedia page... 22:39:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i have never heard of Ketjap before... 22:40:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Ketjap 22:40:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Diese Seite wurde gelöscht. Es folgt ein Auszug aus dem Lösch- und Verschiebungs-Logbuch fÃŒr diese Seite. 22:40:42 <Eddi|zuHause> 16:47, 28. Feb. 2007 LKD (Diskussion | BeitrÀge) hat âKetjapâ gelöscht â (Es wird hergestellt aus Sojabohnenmehl, grob gemahlenen Zeugs, KrÀutern und anderem Krams.) 22:42:28 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe34dc00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 22:45:03 <Eddi|zuHause> (although it is not surprising that things get deleted in the german wikipedia. it has a reputation for enforcing strict deletion rules) 22:45:43 *** bryjen [~bryjen@cpe-75-81-201-131.we.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 22:47:18 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:48:34 <__ln__> so does finnish language wikipedia 22:49:34 <__ln__> ("finnish language" because those people keep saying "it's not Finland's wikipedia, just finnish (language)") 22:50:34 <Eddi|zuHause> well, german wikipedia texts occasionally have a flag "this article dominantly describes the situation in germany, improve it with situations from other countries" 22:51:19 <Eddi|zuHause> "other countries" can mean "austria and switzerland" or "non-german-speaking countries" 22:52:16 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8d82c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:17 <__ln__> it's a ridiculous idea that language and culture could be separated like that, especially for finnish which is only spoken in about one country. 22:54:50 <__ln__> with the deletion policy it doesn't matter if something is significant on finland's scale, it has to be universally significant. 22:56:33 <Eddi|zuHause> that's not a rule in the german wikipedia... 22:56:51 <Eddi|zuHause> a "biased for germany" flag is not a deletion criterium 22:57:08 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a sign of inferior quality, maybe 22:57:47 <Eddi|zuHause> "notability criteria" mainly depend on media coverage 22:58:10 *** Eoin [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust17.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:58:18 <__ln__> the deletion policy is a big joke, but many people believe in it and follow it 22:59:10 <__ln__> in finnish wikipedia, *anything* related to Donald Duck is significant and worth its own article. anything. 23:00:46 *** Eoin [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust17.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 23:01:55 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:05:58 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4E34.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!] 23:07:58 *** Eoin__ [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust17.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 23:08:01 *** Eoin [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust17.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:10:14 <Pikka> orudge is related to donald duck D; 23:10:38 <Pikka> they're practically the same person! 23:12:07 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, they're both neither gandalf nor melissa joan hart 23:17:19 <Terkhen> good night 23:19:04 *** DX_Ipad [Dreamxtrem@92.18.186.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:24:59 *** Dreamxtreme [Dreamxtrem@92.9.151.47] has joined #openttd 23:25:27 *** Dreamxtreme [Dreamxtrem@92.9.151.47] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:25:31 *** Dreamxtreme [Dreamxtrem@92.9.151.47] has joined #openttd 23:28:13 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-25-5-181.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:41 *** SirSquidness [~sirsquidn@au.dongues.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:34:44 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 23:34:53 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DAFA5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Regel Nr. 1: Jeder hört auf mein Kommando! - Regel Nr. 2: Jeder bleibt auf dem Weg! - Regel Nr. 3: ... ... Der, der blÀht, als hinterster geht!] 23:35:28 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn13-22.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Server closed connection] 23:35:44 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn13-22.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 23:36:38 *** SirSquidness [~sirsquidn@au.dongues.com] has joined #openttd 23:42:31 *** JVassie_ [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:48:39 <devilsadvocate> gah 23:49:16 <devilsadvocate> My FIRS primary industries are closing on me left, right and center. Do they do that if you dont get them engg supplies / farm supplies? 23:50:02 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:53:37 <VVG> exactly 23:53:56 <VVG> 1t of supplies per month is enough for them to stay alive, though 23:54:28 *** Zahl [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:79e7:2630:fbab:fbb5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:54:44 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-77-86-107-188.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59:13 *** Zahl [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:79e7:2630:fbab:fbb5] has joined #openttd 23:59:43 *** TrueBrain [~patric@145.118.72.132] has quit [Server closed connection] 23:59:58 *** TrueBrain [~patric@145.118.72.132] has joined #openttd