Log for #openttd on 20th July 2010:
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00:00:47  <SmatZ> quite long
00:01:35  <Rubidium> true
00:01:52  <Rubidium> but significantly cheaper than an airplane
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00:05:44  <Rubidium> because for the airplane 4 hours to get to the airport, 2 hours for checking, 2 hours flight, deboarding...getting into town and you're quickly near 10 hours
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00:06:50  <Rubidium> and with the bus you'll be under way 4-5 hours more, but less changing and it's an overnight trip so you could sleep somewhat instead of getting up at 03:00 to get to the airport on time
00:08:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i never can sleep in busses
00:08:07  <SmatZ> :)
00:08:08  <SmatZ> I can
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00:09:12  <ccfreak2k> I don't think I would be able to.
00:09:18  <ccfreak2k> Someone might steal my things.
00:09:30  <SmatZ> :D
00:09:58  <Rubidium> don't take anything of value with you... :)
00:11:55  <Rubidium> though the chance of stealing wouldn't be that high if the bus wouldn't make intermediate stops
00:14:55  <SmatZ> :)
00:15:03  <SmatZ> bye on Thursday (I hope)
00:15:05  <SmatZ> time for a nap
00:15:09  <SmatZ> waking up at 4:30
00:15:11  <SmatZ> :-x
00:18:10  <Rubidium> time for a nap is a good idea, waking up at 04:30 isn't
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00:33:20  <Eddi|zuHause> nap != sleep
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00:53:56  <ccfreak2k> I posit that napping is a subset of sleeping,.
00:54:58  <Eddi|zuHause> not if you define that sleep involves a REM phase
00:55:28  <ccfreak2k> Which I don't.
00:55:37  <Eddi|zuHause> which first starts about after 3 hours
00:56:20  <Eddi|zuHause> anything below 6 hours is practically useless for regenerating...
00:56:50  <Eddi|zuHause> so either you take a nap of 1 hour, or sleep for not less than 6 hours
00:56:56  <Eddi|zuHause> anything inbetween is just waste of time
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02:36:18  <Pikka> is it an orudge?
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03:12:49  <PeterT> it's a sleepingrude
03:12:52  <PeterT> rudge
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05:33:00  <andythenorth> morning
05:33:13  <andythenorth> Pikka: broad gauge?
05:33:32  <Pikka> not so's you'd notice!
05:38:12  <ccfreak2k> gauge
05:38:37  <ccfreak2k> X-chat's spelling thing (aspell?) doesn't recognize gauge.
05:46:22  <andythenorth> Pikka: would you consider adding broad gauge to UKRS track set?
05:50:15  <Pikka> I'd consider it!
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05:53:18  <andythenorth> let me know the result of your considerations :)
05:54:25  <andythenorth> expensive fast engines early in the game :)
05:54:48  * andythenorth ponders some date based code that makes them useless after 1892
05:55:44  <ccfreak2k> An OpenTTD game can start earlier than 1900?
05:56:55  <andythenorth> ccfreak2k: try it and see...
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05:57:33  <ccfreak2k> Too lazy.
05:57:38  <ccfreak2k> Plus I'm compiling StepMania.
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06:00:05  <Pikka> hmm
06:00:17  <Pikka> who knew they had oil refineries in the year 5?! :P
06:01:15  * andythenorth knew
06:01:44  * andythenorth reconsiders a mad max newgrf
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06:45:43  <dih> does anybody know how to parse an rsync batch file?
06:46:06  <dih> i.e. --only-write-batch
06:46:22  <dih> and now parse the output with something like php to display that on a webpage :-P
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07:06:46  * Pikka considers andythenorth mad
07:07:36  <andythenorth> :P
07:07:45  <Noldo_> what did he do now?
07:12:17  <Terkhen> good morning
07:16:22  <Vadtec> Pikka: hi, i have another question about your NARS GRF
07:16:49  <Pikka> just the usual, Noldo_
07:16:57  <Vadtec> i have told the auto-replace system to replace all Gondolas with the 40' Gondola
07:17:18  <Vadtec> however, i have 19 Gondolas that I refitted to carry coal
07:17:32  <Vadtec> and for some reason, the auto-replace system doesnt want to replace them with the 40' Gondola
07:17:37  <Vadtec> is this by design?
07:17:54  <Pikka> nope
07:18:23  <Vadtec> so it should be replacing them correct?
07:18:48  <Vadtec> it has replaced the other cars ive refitted, so i assume it should work for these as well
07:19:39  <Vadtec> its *only* gondolas set to carry coal as well, all the others auto-replaced just fine
07:21:10  <Vadtec> i just tried making it change them to the Two Bay Hopper Car
07:21:13  <Vadtec> still didnt work
07:22:25  <Vadtec> O.o
07:22:43  <Vadtec> i sent the two trains for maintenance manually...and it worked with the two bay hopper car
07:23:01  <Vadtec> ill have to see if i can reproduce this
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07:30:47  <Vadtec> Pikka: in your NARS GRF, when a faster version of a train comes out (like the 4-6-0), do all existing trains get upgraded automatically during maintenance?
07:31:05  <Pikka> nope
07:31:18  <Vadtec> so how do you get the upgraded version?
07:31:33  <Pikka> sell it and buy a new one
07:31:52  <Vadtec> bleh
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09:05:00  <peter1138> harr, solved it by, indeed, reworking it completely.
09:07:44  * andythenorth discovers an interesting bananas issue / question
09:08:14  <andythenorth> distributing a GPL newgrf should require also distribution of source
09:08:31  <andythenorth> by those doing the distribution
09:09:15  <andythenorth> who does the distribution in case of bananas?  The uploader, or the maintainers of bananas?
09:10:10  <dih> you do not require the distribution of the source!
09:10:27  <dih> you require providing the source in case of a request for the source
09:11:02  <andythenorth> dih: "Yes. The general rule is, if you distribute binaries, you must distribute the complete corresponding source code too. The exception for the case where you received a written offer for source code is quite limited."
09:11:07  <andythenorth> from
09:11:39  <andythenorth> an argument could be that the person doing the upload is causing the distribution, so it's their responsibility
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09:15:42  <Pikka> andythenorth: nothing is uploaded to bananas under the GPL
09:16:10  <andythenorth> ?
09:16:18  <Pikka>
09:16:28  <Pikka> this is the terms under which bananananas distributes newgrfs
09:17:45  <dih> erm Pikka and where do you get that nothing is under gpl?
09:17:52  * andythenorth ducks a GPL discussion.  We've been there before :o
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09:18:39  <Pikka> dih: the terms of service require you to be an author (ie, copyright owner) and to grant a license to the OpenTTD team with those conditions
09:18:55  <dih> the point andythenorth is making, is that if a grf is released under gpl, and distributed via bananas, is the bananas portal suppose to also provide a download for the gpl source of that grf package
09:19:42  <Pikka> but the grf on bananas isn't released under the gpl, it's released under the bananas tos
09:20:06  <dih> that then however does not explain the 'copying' file required ;-)
09:20:14  <dih> which in some cases clearly states gpl
09:20:34  <Pikka> now, if the grf author has used gpl-licenced content in their grf, that's another issue :P
09:20:36  <Rubidium> I agree that (in the future) the sources of GPLed stuff should be uploaded as well
09:20:38  <dih> i am sure, TB had not forgotten or missed the point
09:20:52  <Rubidium> however... time constraints made it that it hasn't happened yet
09:20:59  <dih> Pikka: which is exactly what andythenorth is pointing out
09:21:06  * Pikka is glad I don't have to worry about such licencing nonsense ;)
09:21:14  <dih> :-P
09:21:16  <andythenorth> :P
09:21:30  * andythenorth is in a world of GPL work-related fun at the moment
09:21:33  <Rubidium> on the other hand... sources for AI stuff aren't needed as they are in source for
09:21:43  <dih> i personally would say that it is not OpenTTD's responsibility, as it's the author, who is using a portal / service provided
09:21:58  * dih hands Rubidium an 'm'
09:22:19  * Pikka hands Rubidium a 't'
09:22:32  * Pikka hands Rubidium a 'k'
09:22:42  * Pikka hands Rubidium a 'd'
09:23:30  * Pikka hands Rubidium cheese and onion crisps
09:23:36  <Pikka> they're not very nice but they were on special D;
09:24:02  * andythenorth hands himself a copyright argument :P
09:24:29  * Pikka copyrights andythenorth
09:24:42  <Pikka> ©
09:24:48  * andythenorth contends that pikka is not the author of andythenorth
09:24:51  <dih> Rubidium: would i make sense to merely check for a 'src' or 'source' folder within the tar of a grf released under any gpl lisence?
09:24:57  <andythenorth> unless there's something I don't know :o
09:25:03  <Pikka> :o
09:25:05  <Rubidium> maybe I should patent copyrights
09:25:14  <Pikka> well, you did say you were from near there...
09:25:14  <andythenorth> dih: not unless you fancy distributing about 20mb of psd files :P
09:25:24  <Rubidium> as I understand it the USPTO won't find any prior art
09:25:26  <dih> ops
09:26:33  <Rubidium> dih: rather upload a separate archive which we'll just provide on the download page
09:26:36  <dih> or would it be sufficient to not another url for the source? i.e. author must provide another url in the readme, etc?
09:26:38  * Pikka code hst D:
09:26:54  <dih> *note
09:27:26  <Rubidium> that might suffice as well, but I'm not sure those locations are "stable"
09:28:04  <dih> or, add another line statement that the author of a gpl'd grf grants OpenTTD the 'exception' of not requireing to distribute the source :-P
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09:28:46  <dih> Rubidium: you are not in charge of keeping trac, or making sure url's authors provide _are_ stable
09:28:53  <dih> they are using a service OpenTTD is providing
09:28:59  <dih> it is their responsibility
09:29:22  <dih> i.e. is not in charge of making sure other urls mentioned in readmes (e.g.) are 'stable' either
09:29:50  * andythenorth agrees with dih
09:30:04  <andythenorth> although IANAL so my opinion is not worth 2p
09:30:40  <FauxFaux> (huhuhu)
09:33:38  <Rubidium> one could consider bananas as DMCA "safe harbour"
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09:36:52  <Rubidium> dih: I am, together with TrueBrain, in charge of keeping trac (working)
09:38:39  <dih> but you are not in charge of the grf itself
09:39:08  <dih> you may be in charge of the 'correctness' of lisence -> content or violations
09:39:09  <Rubidium> tss... dih didn't get it
09:39:17  * Rubidium wonders who did get the joke
09:39:33  <dih> trac <- :-P
09:44:22  * Pikka got something
09:44:28  <Pikka> but I think "joke" might be a little strong ;)
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09:44:52  * andythenorth got hungry
09:45:43  <dih> andythenorth: you are odd!
09:45:58  <andythenorth> I'm English, what do you expect?
09:50:21  <Rubidium> andythenorth: that you'd be preparing elevensies!
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11:05:58  <Wolf01> hello
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11:19:37  <BCMM> which AIs are "good", as in hard to beat?
11:22:51  <Eddi|zuHause> all AIs are easy to beat
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11:30:16  <BCMM> ah
11:30:37  <BCMM> i'm fairly new to the games; which is hardest?
11:32:53  <Ammler> play MP
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11:35:05  <BCMM> fair enough
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11:43:57  <dih> trial and error?
11:44:15  <dih> totally dependent on how good YOU are ^^
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12:18:24  <TrueBrain> # INFORMER!
12:18:44  <__ln__> microsoft comic chat?
12:20:20  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i never understood the text of that song :p
12:20:53  <TrueBrain> nobody does
12:21:03  <TrueBrain> # Who are you going to call tonight
12:21:09  <TrueBrain> # Who are you going to call in the twilight zone
12:21:13  <TrueBrain> like thatone makes sense ...
12:21:21  <Eddi|zuHause> there was a parody of that song... "Ich bin ein Farmer"
12:24:14  <TrueBrain> do you know Zorba's Dance?
12:25:46  <TrueBrain> jt
12:25:51  <Eddi|zuHause> names don't ring a bell with me...
12:26:42  <TrueBrain> it has no text :p
12:27:19  <Belugas> hello
12:30:40  * TrueBrain hugs Belugas
12:31:13  <Eddi|zuHause> but now for something completely different
12:31:18  <Eddi|zuHause>
12:34:32  <TrueBrain> lol @ book: galactic rebellion for dummies :)
12:34:41  <Eddi|zuHause> ;)
12:40:26  <Alberth> hello Belugas
12:43:12  * Belugas hugs TrueBrain and Alberth a whole lotta lot
12:49:22  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i think timidity has got some instruments wrong on this midi track...
12:49:44  <Eddi|zuHause> replaced them with pianos where they don't belong
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13:06:23  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: briliant website :)
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13:19:39  <VVG> hi
13:30:52  <Eddi|zuHause> hai VauVauGeh
13:32:02  <VVG> Eddi|zuHause: that's how you pronounce it in your language?
13:32:12  <Eddi|zuHause> pretty much ;)
13:34:02  <VVG> What's your native language? Or the language you base your pronounciation on?
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13:40:01  <Eddi|zuHause> german
13:40:52  <Sacro> deutsch!
13:41:48  <__ln__> zurÃŒckbleiben, bitte
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13:49:22  <VVG> It never crossed my mind it will differ in other languages. :)
13:50:25  <dih> __ln__ ist zurÃŒckgeblieben
13:58:56  <Ammler> using grfcodec -c seems quite tricky :-)
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14:32:49  <dail> I recently compiled the latest svn. However the binary cannot find OpenSFX or the default graphics(i have openttd-data). Its under linux. How do i have it find the graphics and OpenSFX? Thanks
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14:34:36  <Eddi|zuHause> the readme tells you the paths where it searches for the data files
14:35:32  <dail> Ive got 1.0.2 installed and it works fine, but the compiled binary does not find it. Wouldn't they both look in the same place?
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14:35:47  <Eddi|zuHause> the openttd-data package probably installed in a directory relative to the "openttd" package, but your svn compilate is in a different directory
14:36:09  <dail> Oh! That would make sense
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14:36:48  <Eddi|zuHause> if you read the information correctly, you probably find solutions for that, without moving the data
14:38:23  <Rubidium> what distribution are you talking about?
14:38:29  <dail> OS?
14:38:45  <Rubidium> because I know distributions where openttd-data doesn't contain opensfx, opengfx and such
14:38:51  <glx> I'd say openttd-data is not installed at the right place and I'd blame the package maintainer
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14:39:01  <dail> Ubuntu 10.04
14:39:18  <dail> I had to install openttd-data and opensfx seperately
14:39:24  <Rubidium> then openttd-data doesn't contain opensfx or opengfx, but the lagnuage files
14:39:36  <dail> scratch the last message
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14:40:07  <dail> would you specify the path to the opensfx and opengfx in the config file then?
14:40:56  <glx> no, the search paths are detailled in the readme
14:41:06  <glx> it's not configurable
14:42:15  <Ammler> you shouldn't use openttd 1.0.2 data with trunk anyway
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14:42:48  <dail> So its not a good idea to have 1.0.2 installed and compile the latest svn?
14:42:51  <Ammler> I guess, you can't even build trunk without compiling data too
14:43:01  <glx> having both is not a problem
14:43:05  <Rubidium> dail: ./configure --prefix-dir=/usr and then recompiling probably does the trick
14:43:31  <Rubidium> but then you must not install it, as it'll overwrite your "current (Ubuntu)" installation
14:43:52  <Ammler> or symlink /usr/share/openttd/data to /usr/local/share/openttd/data
14:44:09  <dail> so if i do the command above and then "make" i should be able to run it form the bin dir
14:44:37  <Ammler> Rubidium: you really recommend to install something to /usr? :-)
14:45:08  <Rubidium> Ammler: to distros? Yes, for normal people... no
14:45:40  <Rubidium> Ammler: but then... I seem to remember some time ago saying that you must not install if you use /usr as prefix-dir
14:46:14  <glx> like 2 min ago ?
14:46:41  <Rubidium> glx: yes
14:46:57  <Rubidium> but I'm not that sure about my short term memory anymore
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14:48:05  <Ammler> ah, I see
14:48:13  <Ammler> but then you lose the data there?
14:48:55  <glx> why?
14:49:04  <Rubidium> Ammler: are you telling me that /usr/local stuff gets overwritten by doing a simple make?
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14:49:18  <Rubidium> damn... I really must've lost touch with OpenTTD's behaviour lately
14:49:23  <dail> Rubidium: rerunning the configure with the prefix dir fixed it!!!! Thanks!
14:49:29  <Ammler> no, I meant the local build
14:49:30  <Rubidium> oh... there's Yexo again... fris & fruitig
14:49:45  <Yexo> good afternoon
14:49:55  * Yexo is just back from finland
14:50:31  <__ln__> whoot
14:50:56  <__ln__> can't be, i didn't see you
14:53:27  * Rubidium still has no clue what Ammler's babbling about
14:53:38  <Ammler> nvm, I was a bit confused
14:57:16  <Ammler> why does ubuntu split openttd, do they supply a dedicated version?
14:57:57  <Ammler> or is that because of noarch?
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14:59:27  <Ammler> hmm, or debug maybe
14:59:40  <Yexo> __ln__: no idea where you live, but I was in the area around kauhajoki
15:02:46  <Belugas> #Without you Everything falls apart
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15:09:57  <Rubidium> Ammler: noarch and because they leech from Debian
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15:10:44  <Rubidium> and there it saves 13*2124 KiB
15:11:03  <Rubidium> so, 27 MiB
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15:11:33  <Eddi|zuHause> what's the cost of 1MB of storage nowadays?
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15:12:11  <Ammler> well, it is also useful for dedicated and debug build
15:12:33  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: not much, but some of Debian's compilers have very slow uploads, so saving 50+% is significant
15:12:37  <Ammler> suse does that too
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15:13:29  <Eddi|zuHause> i was under the impression that -debug packages are just addons to the normal packages
15:13:39  <Eddi|zuHause> so that point is silly
15:13:56  <dih> that actually does not make a whole load of sense
15:14:46  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: not building
15:14:49  <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: You're right, that's usually the case nowadays
15:15:28  <blathijs> There's a separate "symbols" file that can be loaded by gdb apart from the binary
15:15:43  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's what i mean
15:16:16  <blathijs> And even for storage, splitting is worthwhile
15:16:17  <glx> like the pdb for windows then
15:16:33  <blathijs> The entire Debian archive is quite big, there's only a few full mirrors because of that
15:16:36  <Ammler> to the debug build does have the non-debug as required?
15:17:20  <blathijs> Ammler: I think so. But it's not so much a debug build or non-debug build
15:17:38  <dih> sugarcrm is a pain
15:17:50  <Rubidium> dih: no... it's perfect
15:17:53  <blathijs> Ammler: The build happens with debug symbols on. Then some program extracts the symbols into one package, and strips them from the binaries into the main package
15:17:55  <dih> trying to create conference management with sugarcrm :-P
15:17:59  <Rubidium> (for losing information)
15:18:02  <dih> and _that_ rather is a pain
15:18:21  <dih> i don't want to have to write stuff manually :-P
15:18:49  <Rubidium> then don't use a tool that isn't designed for it
15:19:00  <Rubidium> like using word for sending someone screenshots
15:19:09  <dih> not quite!
15:19:10  <Ammler> that is why you don't need strip on building
15:19:29  <dih> sugarcrm does already have things i could utilize :-P
15:19:34  <dih> hehe
15:19:43  * Rubidium spots a pretty big desync
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15:24:34  * Eddi|zuHause gathers the villagers and some pitchforks, to hunt down the nasty desync
15:25:00  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: head south please :)
15:25:16  <devilsadvocate> is FIRS complete(ish) for Arctic/Temperate? (I find only a meat packing plant and dairy which can produce food, and no industry which accepts grain and fruit and vegetable)
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15:26:21  <Eddi|zuHause> "find" as in "is on the map" or as in "is in the list of foundable industries"?
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15:35:57  <devilsadvocate> "find" as in in the list of industries below the map. havent checked the list of fundable industries, though, but i do see '0's next to some industries, so i assume everything is on the list
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15:39:08  <__ln__> Yexo: 17:59 < Yexo> __ln__: no idea where you live, but I was in the area around kauhajoki  <--- innnteresting, kauhajoki is exactly where i'm from originally!  although i live elsewhere now.
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15:55:07  <Eddi|zuHause> devilsadvocate: as far as i see it, the brewery accepts fruits and vegetables
15:55:19  <Eddi|zuHause> see for more information
15:55:28  <devilsadvocate> oh, thanks
15:55:34  * devilsadvocate searches for a brewery
15:55:58  <Eddi|zuHause> those are typically found in cities ;)
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16:17:12  <andythenorth> devilsadvocate: FIRS is complete 'enough' for Arctic / Temperate
16:17:19  <andythenorth> all cargo chains work
16:17:27  <andythenorth> game is reasonably well balanced
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16:23:06  <TheWrongGame> Hi.
16:24:44  *** TheWrongGame is now known as JustWrong
16:26:40  <JustWrong> I hate all the "real-time strategies that have no actual strategy, just clicking sessions - like Warcraft 3.
16:27:45  <dih> i hate people who just randomly enter a chat channel, constantly change their nick, and only moan about something nobody else in the channel cares about
16:30:02  <Markk> dih: +1
16:30:05  <JustWrong> Just compare a proper RTS like tycoon series, and a Warcraft/CnC "clicking session".
16:30:20  <Markk> Should we discuss this?
16:30:26  <dih> ha! did not get the hint!
16:30:30  <Markk> dih: :D
16:30:39  <dih> poor sodd
16:31:06  <Markk> Everyone can feel whatever they fancy about games.
16:31:46  <dih> just they do not have to express it in channles only because nobody else in the world wants to listen to their jibber jabber
16:32:26  <Markk> Mm
16:32:28  <perk111> JustWrong: Actually Warcraft has a strategy, it's not just a clicking session
16:32:37  <dih> well done perk111 !!
16:32:46  <dih> thank you for successfully engaging
16:32:58  <perk111> Thanks
16:33:03  <perk111> :)
16:33:43  <Alberth> good luck with it perk111
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16:33:57  <JustWrong> next step, compare a skullbob game like "Sea Dogs" and S.M. Pirates!
16:34:08  <dih> perk111: yeah... that was no compliment :-P
16:34:24  <perk111> dih: I understood that
16:34:28  <dih> does he not get it?
16:34:38  <dih> nobody is interested in his little chit chat
16:35:18  <Markk> JustWrong: We're talking about you mate.
16:35:48  <JustWrong> After those comparisons, you will see that Microprose/Firaxis are the only ones to actually succeed in game-making, not failsome crap like modern games
16:36:12  <__ln__> JustWrong: End of discussion.
16:36:19  <perk111> JustWrong: that's just yout opinion, and everyone already got it
16:36:50  *** perk111 is now known as perk11
16:36:51  <VVG> andythenorth: i have a small complain about FIRS balance :p
16:37:04  <JustWrong> TTD is a Microprose product, and the one whose open ramake is the most complete one.
16:37:24  <dih> wow - this kidd just goes on and on
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16:37:31  <VVG> andythenorth: atm it looks like it heavly biased towards mines, with them having production 10 times bigger than farms.
16:37:31  <dih> aint there no +q for such kids?
16:37:36  <Eddi|zuHause> <__ln__> JustWrong: End of discussion. <-- that phrase is typically followed by a *plonk*
16:37:49  <dih> :-P
16:38:48  <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: it should have 10 times as many farms...
16:39:05  <VVG> but it does not right now
16:40:18  <VVG> after some time industries start to close down, and it seems hard getting good farm clusters later on
16:42:11  <Eddi|zuHause> that is true
16:46:42  * Rubidium hasn't looked at those "competitive" OpenTTD players... that's a clickfest as well
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16:57:24  <BCMM> is it ever possible to link to airports?
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16:59:57  <PeterT> BCMM: no
17:10:25  <Eddi|zuHause> with cargodist you can do a shuttle service
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17:11:51  <Eddi|zuHause> feature request: can we have sane limits on string lengths? like 256 instead of 30 characters...
17:12:39  <Eddi|zuHause> wtf is a "Crazybrowser"?
17:12:56  <Eddi|zuHause> but that only confirms my initial suspicion
17:13:20  <andythenorth> evening all
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17:15:34  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: and then you're going to complain that the $random_this_with_name doesn't fit in $some_window? Or that $flag_name isn't drawn correctly on the viewport?
17:16:32  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe we need line-wrap in signs
17:16:32  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: it's a crazy thing that makes OpenTTD seem to do strange things when OpenTTD is actually doing exactly what it should do based on its inputs
17:17:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i often run into character limits when trying to make my group names descriptive
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17:18:05  <Rubidium> it'll still fails with 256 characters
17:18:16  <Eddi|zuHause> it's like making 8.3 filenames descriptive
17:18:32  <Rubidium> at least if you want something like "$town - $town - ..." where $town is also 256 characters
17:18:34  <Eddi|zuHause> i've never run out of space in a 256 characters filename
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17:19:37  <Eddi|zuHause> there are already line wrap functions for chat, right? how difficult would it be to adapt them to signs?
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17:20:24  <Rubidium> it's not how difficult, but how much work and how hard it'll backfire
17:20:34  <Alberth> non-trivial
17:20:42  <Alberth> console has a known width eg
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17:21:29  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you e.g. define signs as a maximum of 256 pixels and word-wrap on that width
17:21:32  <Alberth> + the console line wrapping is custom for the console due to having to drop the first part of a line
17:22:18  <Eddi|zuHause> and doesn't the settings window also word-wrap?
17:22:20  <Alberth> I think we have a function for that already
17:22:20  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but then
17:22:27  <Rubidium> "hello foo bar foo bar foo"
17:22:30  <Rubidium> "bar"
17:22:46  <Rubidium> and people will complain it takes too much space and such
17:22:49  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yes. so?
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17:22:50  <Rubidium> and that is should be done
17:22:58  <Rubidium> "hello foo bar"
17:23:01  <Rubidium> "foo bar foo bar"
17:23:39  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: you reply that you're not building a layout engine
17:24:25  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: you're just trying to come up with silly arguments now. that doesn't count ;)
17:25:07  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: no, I'm trying to stay ahead of all the bug reports that will happen because of such a change
17:25:24  <Rubidium> saying that it breaks the network protocol would be a silly argument
17:25:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: that's the typical "reach them a finger and they want the whole hand" situation
17:26:17  <Rubidium> yep
17:26:50  <Rubidium> in any case... not all strings can be made longer due to protocol constraints (by you probably don't care about those)
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17:27:29  <Eddi|zuHause> indeed, i don't care about network
17:28:35  <Rubidium> e.g. company name can't be made significantly longer
17:28:40  <Eddi|zuHause> there was a welsh town name set, right? how did they fit that name in the sign?
17:29:25  <Rubidium> dunno... the welsh seem kinda silent lately
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17:33:52  <Doorslammer> That's the best type of Welsh though, the silent ones :P
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17:45:32  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: translators * r20198 /trunk/src/lang/ (portuguese.txt unfinished/chuvash.txt):
17:45:32  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:32  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: chuvash - 39 changes by mefisteron
17:45:32  <CIA-9> OpenTTD: portuguese - 31 changes by ABCRic, SupSuper
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18:31:34  <game-report> [report] Mediazona OTTD ( ) belongs to a commercial organization - South TeleCom. Mediazona is their community portal. That's against the GPL. [/report]
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18:33:43  <Rubidium> game-report: in what way do you think they violate GPL?
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18:35:26  <game-report> a commercial organization must not use GPLed software "for outside"
18:35:34  <Yexo> why not?
18:35:34  <Eddi|zuHause> what happened to the *plonk* i suggested earlier?
18:36:17  <Yexo> game-report: GPL has no special restrictions with regards to using it "commercially"
18:36:58  <Yexo> it's just not done that often because you have to deliver the source code with any binaries you offer (and you can't charge seperately for the source code), and anyone can than distribute the source code / binaries you sold
18:37:03  <Yexo> so it's pointless but not forbidden in any way
18:38:16  <Eddi|zuHause> GPL'ed software is commonly found in routers and similar embedded hardware, which is sold commercially
18:38:34  <Eddi|zuHause> although those companies did often violate the GPL, by not providing the source
18:38:42  <andythenorth> we 'sell' commercial GPL software all day every day
18:38:55  <andythenorth> although people don't buy it all day every day :P
18:39:11  <Noldo_> too bad for you
18:39:12  <andythenorth> if they did (a) I'd be rich, and (b) we'd have a lot more newgrfs (and feature requests)
18:39:16  <Wolf01> we pirate commercial closed source software every day, so we are pair
18:41:26  <Rubidium> even so... from what I've seen here we're talking about a company that runs a GPL-ed binary. It isn't distributing it, it isn't selling it, so what is it doing wrong?
18:42:10  <andythenorth> nothing
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18:43:59  <frosch123> maybe it's not called apple
18:44:16  <game-report> In mediazona's "games" section, there's a link to, wikipedia entry and a binary on their ftp, plus they run a server of openTTD.
18:45:05  <Eddi|zuHause> you can easily judge that by having a link to, they are providing the source
18:46:19  <game-report> but it is not clear if they use "original", "terragenesis" or their own "map randomizer".
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18:46:39  <Eddi|zuHause> that's clearly no part of the GPL
18:46:41  <Rubidium> doesn't matter...
18:47:08  <game-report> if the map randomizer used with the game is their own, it's already a violation
18:47:28  <Eddi|zuHause> no
18:47:32  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not
18:47:37  <__ln__> Yexo: so what was there to see at kauhajoki?
18:47:38  <Eddi|zuHause> they're allowed to modify their server
18:47:46  <Eddi|zuHause> like the "goal servers"
18:47:57  <Eddi|zuHause> they don't need to supply the server code
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18:48:05  <Rubidium> we're not using AGPL
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18:48:39  <Rubidium> so... local server modifications are perfectly fine as long as you give the people you give the binaries to also access to the (changed) sources
18:49:18  <Yexo> __ln__: I was 2 weeks in a voluntary working camp, first week in IkkelÀjÀrvi
18:49:36  <Yexo> part of the work was around the youth house there
18:50:18  <Yexo> only visited kauhajoki 2 times, viewed a finnish basebal game (very weird game btw) and walked around a bit
18:50:22  <Yexo> not very interesting
18:50:28  * game-report summons a Ford Trimotor and a cop car.
18:51:06  <__ln__> yeah, admittedly there's nothing so interesting to see.
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18:51:49  <Eddi|zuHause> do i dare asking what finnish baseball looks like?
18:52:18  <Yexo> yes, I'll direct you here:
18:52:21  <Eddi|zuHause> *miau* it says next to me...
18:52:39  <frosch123> it takes place in a sauna
18:53:10  <Noldo_> aah, PesÀpallo <3
18:53:24  <game-report> finnish basketball is ok, but their special kind of football... is c.r.a.p.
18:53:39  <Rubidium> oh, I thought it was played by hitting that candy ln took with him instead of a ball
18:54:10  * andythenorth finds an unusual road-rail vehicle:
18:55:02  <Eddi|zuHause> how is that unusual? our tram company has a similar vehicle
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18:55:13  <__ln__> game-report: there's no special kind of finnish football.
18:55:23  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: your tram company has a log forwarder?
18:55:33  <game-report> bog football
18:55:58  <frosch123> hmm, i registered to dorpsgek, but did not yet bother to upgrade...
18:56:20  <frosch123> *to ask tb
18:56:58  <game-report> that vehicle - could be good as a newgrf to help deal with colliding trains
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18:58:40  <Rubidium> @whoami
18:58:40  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: I don't recognize you.
18:58:51  <Rubidium> grr.... you stupid woman!
18:58:53  <PeterT> frosch123: and if you don't want to identify every time, just add your hostmask to your account
18:59:03  <frosch123> @whoami
18:59:03  <DorpsGek> frosch123: frosch
18:59:04  <__ln__> Yexo: anyway, congratulations for visiting my original home town. :)
18:59:13  *** mode/#openttd [+o frosch123] by ChanServ
18:59:15  <frosch123> she knows me anyway :)
18:59:33  <PeterT> :)
18:59:44  <PeterT> @op PeterT ;)
18:59:51  <DorpsGek> boo
18:59:54  <game-report> is there a mode on IRC to forbid OPing someone?
19:00:08  <PeterT> game-report: no, but only ops can op each other
19:00:11  <PeterT> :D
19:00:11  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no, but a truck/crane that can run on both roads and rails
19:00:31  <PeterT> @say #openttd boo back
19:00:31  <DorpsGek> boo back
19:00:52  <game-report> @bot-offload
19:01:12  * game-report explodes
19:01:23  <PeterT> game-report: why would you want to forbid opping?
19:01:52  <game-report> if one op forgets that someone (or some IP) must never be an operator
19:02:26  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: such a thing will soon be provided to you
19:02:29  <Yexo> that's just stupid, normally only a few "known" people should be operator
19:02:30  <Rubidium> game-report: there is a mode m for that
19:02:39  *** mode/#openttd [+o Rubidium] by ChanServ
19:02:56  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: dunno if a tram version is worth it though?
19:03:11  <game-report> for example, never op people from STC DSL Novorossiysk.
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19:03:54  <Eddi|zuHause> always op people who say "i'm a rl friend of chanserv"
19:04:18  <Yexo> i'm a rl friend of chanserv
19:04:27  *** mode/#openttd [+o Yexo] by DorpsGek
19:04:28  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you mean for transporting wood on "industrial" tram lines?
19:04:48  <andythenorth> no - that's too esoteric even for me
19:04:54  <andythenorth> but the truck version
19:05:06  *** mode/#openttd [+m] by Rubidium
19:05:47  <Yexo> it's quiet this way
19:06:29  *** mode/#openttd [-m] by Rubidium
19:06:32  <PeterT> \o/
19:09:55  *** mode/#openttd [+q *!*@] by Rubidium
19:10:01  <Eddi|zuHause> hm.. one *miau* leaves, other *miau* comes...
19:12:01  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause:
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19:25:53  <andythenorth> bah
19:25:56  * andythenorth blew up the gam
19:25:58  <andythenorth> e
19:27:02  <Eddi|zuHause> come on, you really enjoy that :p
19:27:46  <Rubidium> he likes pulling mbs
19:28:53  * Eddi|zuHause invents a new sports: extreme mb-ing
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19:30:35  * andythenorth is a little baffled
19:30:49  <andythenorth> what is this sport of which you speak?
19:32:22  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: hmm, yeah maybe what andy does is extreme mb-ing
19:32:36  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: repeatedly telling "there's a bug" without saying which bug, and if asked which bug, telling that you mentioned it before, referring to a cryptic unreferencable discussion on a remote forum in a foreign language, or a thread of emails/pms which were never published
19:33:02  <andythenorth> no bugs
19:33:06  <andythenorth> well except with my code
19:33:21  <andythenorth> and there's not a great deal of benefit in reporting those
19:33:23  <andythenorth> :P
19:35:13  <Eddi|zuHause> imho, no NewGRF action should be able to crash the game, even if the big red warning box says so
19:36:54  * Yexo agrees with Eddi|zuHause
19:37:11  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: it's a nice aspiration.  Would you like me to start posting a broken newgrf, savegame and a crash log every time I cause this
19:37:19  <andythenorth> :P
19:37:46  <Yexo> andythenorth: just a very small grf that crashes the game every time you (start a new game / build an industry / on next month / etc.)
19:37:46  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes, it's up to the devs to decide "wontfix" status
19:38:52  <andythenorth> and what about when I change sprites and reload_newgrfs?
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19:48:55  <VVG> I can produce such a broken grf, that with certaion action crashes openttd :)
19:49:09  <VVG> 20146 for sure
19:54:42  <Yexo> VVG: than by all means do so and create a bugreport with that grf attached
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20:09:52  <VVG> May be it will suffice to just report here? It's only a few simple steps, that break the already working grf, which in turn then may cause a crash
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20:13:22  <VVG> oh nvm, i forgot i recently registered at
20:15:28  <devilsadvocate> gah. 80% of my forests disappeared :(
20:15:33  <VVG> I am not allowed to upload a modified version of someone else newgrf to, right?
20:16:21  <Yexo> that depends on the licence of the newgrf
20:16:42  <VVG> tar
20:16:54  <VVG> tar's license.txt says GNU GPL version 3
20:18:33  <Yexo> so you can distribute the modified grf if you also distribute the modified source of it
20:19:08  <VVG> Does the grf itself count as source?
20:19:38  <Yexo> if you decompiled the grf, modified it, then compiled it again I guess it could
20:19:57  <VVG> ok
20:22:11  * andythenorth starts converting HEQS to pikka templates :P
20:22:15  <andythenorth> big job
20:22:17  *** Chris_Booth [] has joined #openttd
20:22:20  <andythenorth> might cheat
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20:24:33  <VVG> there, is it ok?
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20:29:08  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... from 1549 to 1874, the height of the highest building in the world decreased. from 1311 until 1549 the cathedral of Lincoln (England) at 159,7m, until 1625 the church of Reval (now Tallin, Estonia) at 159m, until 1647 the church of Stralsund (Germany) at 151m and until 1874 the MÃŒnster of Straßburg (then Germany, now France) at 142m
20:30:05  <Eddi|zuHause> *Tallinn
20:37:07  <VVG> But before that it was stable for something like 4k years, with the height of about 140 meters :)
20:40:43  <__ln__> "A form Tallin deriving from the Romanization of Russian spelling of the name Та́ллОМ was also used internationally during the era Estonia was annexed by the Soviet Union."
20:45:24  <Wolf01> 'night
20:45:32  <__ln__> 'nighttt
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20:46:22  <Belugas> NIGHT INDEED!
20:46:26  <Belugas> ?me goes POOOOF
20:46:36  <Belugas> gggrrrrrrr
20:46:40  * Belugas goes POOOOF
20:46:46  <Eddi|zuHause> official language in Reval was German until 1889
20:47:10  <Eddi|zuHause> it was renamed to Tallinn in 1918, after Estonia declared its independence
20:48:23  <VVG> A legacy from Teutonic and/or Livonic orders?
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20:48:57  <Eddi|zuHause> that, and importance of the Hanse in international trading
20:49:26  <Eddi|zuHause> so the upper class (traders and nobility) were mostly german
20:50:50  <Eddi|zuHause> even when it was temporarily ruled by danes, swedes and russians
20:51:33  <__ln__> the last time danes or swedes ruled anything
20:52:45  <Chruker> danes still rule everything, it is just the rest of you thats in denial
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20:54:02  <Eddi|zuHause> in german we say "da ist was faul im Staate DÀnemark"
20:54:22  <Eddi|zuHause> not entirely sure where that comes from
20:54:51  <Chruker> shakespeare / hamlet (maybe)
20:55:04  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly
21:01:15  *** KouDy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:04:18  <__ln__> the relevant monty python link:
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21:06:51  <VVG> what does that german saying means?
21:08:29  <VVG> monty python link is in german :(
21:12:18  *** heffer [] has quit [Quit: heffer]
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21:22:41  <bryjen> there is something rotten in the state of Denmark
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21:26:32  <Ammler> are the bounding boxes for the base sets somewhere documented?
21:28:41  * Yexo thinks only in the source code
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21:38:40  <Pikka> yeah I know
21:41:09  <Eddi|zuHause> price of one tram ride: 1.8.1919: 20 Pfennig, 14.7.1923: 1500 Mark, 24.11.1923: 150 Mrd. Mark, 25.11.1923: 15 Pfennig (today: around 1,50€)
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21:46:28  <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: yes, monty python produced an episode in german
21:47:11  <__ln__> that looks very dubbed (or the lipsync is very bad on youtube), but apparently dubbed by themselves
21:49:33  <Eddi|zuHause> official german dubs are usually good at lipsynching
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21:51:04  <VVG> You have dubs for all alien stuff in Germany?
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21:51:47  <Eddi|zuHause> we have dubs for pretty much all stuff in germany
21:52:04  <Eddi|zuHause> even Borat...
21:52:19  <__ln__> and japanese in Heroes
21:52:23  <VVG> just wondering. I know it's mostly subs in Finland and dubs for everthing in Russia, no idea about other countries.
21:52:29  <Eddi|zuHause> which is silly, because it removes all the funny stuff...
21:53:52  <Eddi|zuHause> subs i have only ever seen on MTV productions
21:54:59  <__ln__> borat joking about jews, dubbed in german, hmm...
21:55:17  <Eddi|zuHause> some rare minor cinemas occationally show films in original language with subtitles ("OmU", "Originalton mit Untertiteln")
21:56:37  <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: in lord of the rings, was elvish dubbed?
21:56:57  <Eddi|zuHause> no, it was subbed
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21:57:37  <Eddi|zuHause> the japanese stuff from heroes was a silly thing to do... the korean in lost was subbed, and nobody complained...
21:59:26  <Eddi|zuHause> it made heroes totally ununderstandable... Hiro switched from good german (when speaking japanese) to bad german (when speaking english) for no apparent reason
22:01:59  <__ln__> something like 10 years ago a tv channel here made an experiment, and they dubbed some programmes into finnish for a week.  the feedback was very negative as far as i know, and people felt uncomfortable watching those.
22:03:04  <Eddi|zuHause> were the dubs "german" or "polish" [quality, not language]
22:03:28  <VVG> what's the difference?
22:03:51  <__ln__> in polish, one male voice reads all roles, and the original sounds can be heard in the background
22:03:59  <VVG> oh
22:04:32  <Eddi|zuHause> german=professional actors, lip synchronisation. polish=one guy even for female characters, speaking over the original sound, which still can be heard in the background
22:04:37  <VVG> i thouhht that should be called voiceover
22:04:47  <VVG> never heard it called "polish dub"
22:05:17  <Rubidium> I *always* get annoyed by dubs
22:05:31  <ccfreak2k> Rubidium, how about vdubs?
22:05:39  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a matter of how you grow up
22:06:10  <Eddi|zuHause> dubs have some serious disadvantages
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22:06:15  <Rubidium> and what is worst is Dutch dubbed to English on the Polish way and that subbed... and the subtitles use completely different words than what was actually said
22:06:19  <VVG> as a grown up, you still can change your opinion. Atleast you can come to think that dubs sucks :)
22:06:26  <Eddi|zuHause> but subs have others
22:06:45  <Eddi|zuHause> if you are used to subs growing up, dubs may seem a step backwards
22:07:05  <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: something in between; read by more or less professional actors (many of them), but probably the original sound was in the background.
22:07:16  <Eddi|zuHause> if you grow up with dubs, subs may distract you from the visual flow of the movie
22:07:27  <Rubidium> just look at the shows you grew up with and never noticed it was dubbed and now get annoyed really quickly
22:08:13  <__ln__> and one shouldn't underestimate the entertainment value of watching a TNG episode with dutch subtitles
22:08:13  <VVG> You can grow up with dubs and then get used to subs to the point they don't distract you much
22:08:17  <Rubidium> and subs can be very annoying as well, especially if the translator didn't get the joke and the translation totally sucks
22:08:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i much rather have turtles dubbed than subbed, when i know neither english, nor can read...
22:09:21  <VVG> Rubidium: isn't that a fault of translation, and not a way of showing it?
22:09:31  <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: i had subs for a year or two when i started watching original series, but they are _really_ distracting you from what's happening
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22:09:52  <Rubidium> VVG: yes, but the subs are really distracting you in that case
22:09:55  <__ln__> children's programmes and movies are mostly dubbed here.  movies with human actors very rarely even if meant for children.
22:09:55  <Eddi|zuHause> so i stopped the subs after i grew confident in understanding most of the english dialog
22:10:00  *** Terkhen [] has joined #openttd
22:10:01  <Rubidium> or when they aren't "in sync"
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22:11:27  <Eddi|zuHause> is it "dialogue"?
22:12:11  <Rubidium> Merriam thinks it is
22:12:31  <Eddi|zuHause> one of the silly french remnants...
22:12:37  <VVG> hee. I tend to use english subs for english movies exactly because i'm not confident in understandiong all of the english dialog :9
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22:12:49  <__ln__> dialogue is the british, probably
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22:13:09  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, these french derivates are often cause for AE/BE differences
22:13:37  <Eddi|zuHause> "ou" vs. "u", "re" vs "er" etc.
22:13:40  <__ln__> it was a mistake to start loaning words from french
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22:14:05  <Eddi|zuHause> german has also a lot of french loan words
22:14:31  <Rubidium> Oxford says (US also dialog)
22:15:04  <Eddi|zuHause> "ou" vs. "o" i meant...
22:15:49  <Eddi|zuHause> but often, these french loan words are older than the german spelling
22:15:59  <Eddi|zuHause> which explains words like "BÃŒro"
22:17:31  <Rubidium> oh.. my.. that Spanish guy is really putting a lot of effort into the "compile on mac" article
22:18:06  <Eddi|zuHause> the last spelling reform of 1996 tried to "germanify" some french words, like "portemonnaie" -> "portmonee"
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22:19:48  <VVG> How was it received by public?
22:20:04  <Eddi|zuHause> the spelling reform overall? very mixed to rejective...
22:20:28  <Eddi|zuHause> some rules were changed back and forth, until it was finalized in 2006 or so...
22:21:34  <__ln__> and someone sued germany because of the reform..?
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22:21:42  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: we had "kado" and "cadeau", and now only "cadeau" is valid
22:22:42  <Eddi|zuHause> one of the most silly rules of the reform: english-derived words ending on -y do not change to -ies but to -ys when forming plural
22:23:31  <Rubidium> oh... so that explains all those people writing stuff like librarys
22:23:33  <VVG> indy-indys looks funny :)
22:23:50  <Eddi|zuHause> one of the best rules of the reform: greek-derived words don't require knowledge of greek anymore when hyphenating (e.g. Chi-rurg instead of Chir-urg)
22:24:41  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: do they also have some rule so said becomes saied and paid becomes paied? And sometimes says becomed saies?
22:25:07  <Eddi|zuHause> some words got "both are valid" rules. e.g. "Ketchup" and "Ketschup"
22:25:32  <Eddi|zuHause> although i think that was one of the disputed back-and-forth rules
22:25:38  <Eoin> its just tomato sauce
22:25:39  <Eoin> :L
22:26:20  <Eddi|zuHause> "Herkunft: englisch: ketchup, ÃŒber malaiisch: kecap von Amoy-chinesisch (Hokkien, Min): kÃŽechiap oder kê-tsiap, geschrieben 茄汁 (Tomatensoße) oder 鮭汁 (Fischsoße)"
22:28:07  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: afaik, none of the english loan words in german contain "saied", "paied" or anything similar... loan verbs from english get usually fit into german conjugation
22:28:57  <Rubidium> hmm... so Ketjap and Ketchup are the same word
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22:29:26  <Eddi|zuHause> what's Ketjap?
22:29:50  <Rubidium> some soy-ish sauce from Indonesia
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22:31:35  <__ln__> indeed muchos effort put in Compilar_en_Mac, screenshotses and all
22:31:39  <Rubidium> although the Kanji looks different
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22:32:48  <Rubidium> but then another translation of the wiki does link it "directly" to 鮭 (kÎe) 汁 (chiap)
22:35:43  * Rubidium wonders why he did start at the Dutch Ketjap page... the Dutch Ketchup page says it's the same word
22:38:20  <Eddi|zuHause> weird... the first google result for Ketjap is the nl.wikipedia page...
22:39:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i have never heard of Ketjap before...
22:40:40  <Eddi|zuHause> Ketjap
22:40:41  <Eddi|zuHause> Diese Seite wurde gelöscht. Es folgt ein Auszug aus dem Lösch- und Verschiebungs-Logbuch fÌr diese Seite.
22:40:42  <Eddi|zuHause> 16:47, 28. Feb. 2007 LKD (Diskussion | BeitrÀge) hat „Ketjap“ gelöscht ‎ (Es wird hergestellt aus Sojabohnenmehl, grob gemahlenen Zeugs, KrÀutern und anderem Krams.)
22:42:28  *** Kurimus [] has quit []
22:45:03  <Eddi|zuHause> (although it is not surprising that things get deleted in the german wikipedia. it has a reputation for enforcing strict deletion rules)
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22:48:34  <__ln__> so does finnish language wikipedia
22:49:34  <__ln__> ("finnish language" because those people keep saying "it's not Finland's wikipedia, just finnish (language)")
22:50:34  <Eddi|zuHause> well, german wikipedia texts occasionally have a flag "this article dominantly describes the situation in germany, improve it with situations from other countries"
22:51:19  <Eddi|zuHause> "other countries" can mean "austria and switzerland" or "non-german-speaking countries"
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22:52:17  <__ln__> it's a ridiculous idea that language and culture could be separated like that, especially for finnish which is only spoken in about one country.
22:54:50  <__ln__> with the deletion policy it doesn't matter if something is significant on finland's scale, it has to be universally significant.
22:56:33  <Eddi|zuHause> that's not a rule in the german wikipedia...
22:56:51  <Eddi|zuHause> a "biased for germany" flag is not a deletion criterium
22:57:08  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a sign of inferior quality, maybe
22:57:47  <Eddi|zuHause> "notability criteria" mainly depend on media coverage
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22:58:18  <__ln__> the deletion policy is a big joke, but many people believe in it and follow it
22:59:10  <__ln__> in finnish wikipedia, *anything* related to Donald Duck is significant and worth its own article. anything.
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23:10:14  <Pikka> orudge is related to donald duck D;
23:10:38  <Pikka> they're practically the same person!
23:12:07  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, they're both neither gandalf nor melissa joan hart
23:17:19  <Terkhen> good night
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23:48:39  <devilsadvocate> gah
23:49:16  <devilsadvocate> My FIRS primary industries are closing on me left, right and center. Do they do that if you dont get them engg supplies / farm supplies?
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23:53:37  <VVG> exactly
23:53:56  <VVG> 1t of supplies per month is enough for them to stay alive, though
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