Log for #openttd on 31st July 2010:
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00:37:06  <TruePikachu> ...anyone here?
00:37:43  <FauxFaux> Did you completely ignore the two replies you got?
00:37:47  <TruePikachu> No
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00:38:10  <TruePikachu> I had to page up to get to them, but there was a screenful of join/leaves
00:38:22  <TruePikachu> ^^ just like that one right there
00:38:39  <FauxFaux> Maybe you should turn them off in your client.
00:38:43  <Mazur> Interesting, in Coop we have 1152 trains, limit is at 1100, and we still can create new trains.  Is that a new bug?
00:39:08  <TruePikachu> Check the limit.
00:39:24  <TruePikachu> IDK if anyone would set it to 1100
00:39:39  <TruePikachu> It isn't a round number like 1000 or 1500
00:40:03  <Mazur> It's a Coop thing.
00:40:19  <Mazur> Setting it at 1100, I mean.
00:40:27  <TruePikachu> Mine is at 2500
00:40:52  <TruePikachu> Not that I even use that many trains...
00:41:12  <TruePikachu> Ships are at 4000, and I barely use them at all
00:41:22  <TruePikachu> I like putting in quite a bit of give
00:41:53  <TruePikachu> It might just be you who can build more trains, in which case, you'll probably desync
00:42:21  <TruePikachu> How are the trains being built? Wagons or cloning?
00:44:34  <TruePikachu> Chances are there is a problem with the counter.
00:45:35  <TruePikachu> I haven't looked at the code (I don't understand C/C++ easily), but if the programming disallows building if there are exactly 1100 trains...
00:46:25  <TruePikachu> ...then 2 players may have built trains at the same time so the counter went up to 1101, which is !=1100, which may have permitted building
00:47:22  <Yexo> you're just making it very obvious you know nothing about the openttd code
00:47:28  <Yexo> as no, that situation can't happen
00:48:49  * TruePikachu doesn't really even know C/C++
00:49:00  <TruePikachu> And I've had no real reason to download the code
00:49:02  <Mazur> And, TruePikachu, the setting of 1100 came after reaching 1152 trains.
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00:49:14  <TruePikachu> Oh, that makes sense
00:49:27  <TruePikachu> But if you can still build, IDK
00:49:44  <Mazur> Indeed, it used not to be so, and should not be so.
00:50:08  * TruePikachu thinks there should be a debugger set up
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00:50:58  <TruePikachu> Did the setting go through?
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00:54:05  * TruePikachu just read FS#5
00:55:23  <TruePikachu> Boy has OTTD come a long way
01:01:02  <Yexo> Mazur: it's indeed a bug, FS#3993
01:01:50  <Yexo> fn everyone
01:01:54  <Yexo> *gn
01:02:13  <Mazur> Sleep well.
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01:08:18  * TruePikachu doesn't understand the purpose for frosch123->Guest356
01:08:59  <frosch123> do /msg nickserv help regain
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01:10:18  * TruePikachu doesn't understand by what is meant by 'held by services'
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01:31:13  <Mazur> It means, that NickServ prevents others from using your nick, if you've registered.
01:32:06  <Mazur> So, I have no problems with Poles here, having accidentally chosen a nick that is a region in Poland, and a surname, there.
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01:45:44  <TruePikachu> Which is better for freight? 512*512,1024*256, or 2048*128?
01:45:45  <Denglade> Can I force in a new grf in a current game via the console?
01:45:56  <TruePikachu> Denglade: I don't think so
01:47:30  <TruePikachu> I've been using 1024*256 for my games, but my network style makes it so it's useful only if I start at a short end
01:48:12  <TruePikachu> 2048*128 doesn't get a lot of horizontal expansion, while amplifying the 1024*256 problem
01:48:45  <TruePikachu> 512*512 gives a lot of starting positions, but there is so much freedom I can't choose where to start
01:50:23  <TruePikachu> Also, 512*512 'murders' my network style, requiring much more complex junctions
01:51:57  <TruePikachu> My style is a L_L?R_R mainline with L?R sidelines that serve a couple places each
01:53:35  <TruePikachu> Xru has showed me that freight can be more profitable than PAX, but it slows expansion
01:53:59  <TruePikachu> (expansion being defined by me as how many cities are connected)
01:54:59  <TruePikachu> I also find the difference in speed between FGT and PAX trains in NARS to make me focus on even more complicated junctions, as I share the rails between each of them
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03:44:23  <TruePikachu> What's up?
03:45:26  *** Xrufuian [] has joined #openttd
03:45:33  <TruePikachu> Lol, I just got here
03:45:46  <TruePikachu> Xrufuian: Server goes up at 10:00 tommorrow
03:45:56  <Xrufuian> Ok.
03:46:06  <Xrufuian> What are you here for?
03:46:09  <TruePikachu> Oh, and I partially NMAPped the schools network
03:46:18  <TruePikachu> I'm bored right now
03:46:51  <TruePikachu> I got 10.0.1-254.1-254 down in a logfile
03:47:08  <TruePikachu> They use MS Windows Server :(
03:47:35  <Xrufuian> Well, at least it isn't a mac?
03:47:46  <TruePikachu> And some resources resolve via DNS to the 'thg' domain
03:47:54  <TruePikachu> (expand thg, not here)
03:48:13  <TruePikachu> I'll e-mail you the log
03:48:42  <Xrufuian> Anyways, I came here for some NewGRF help. (If anyone could provide it.)
03:48:43  <TruePikachu> And everyone here (plus the Wiki) agrees - goods do not influence town growth any more than other cargos
03:49:19  <TruePikachu> If it's with the coding language, of course I can't help :P
03:49:50  <TruePikachu> We seem to be the only 2 people active here ATM
03:50:29  <Xrufuian> I guess. It is 3:50 GMT...
03:51:19  <TruePikachu> Good point, although I'm pretty sure there was more activity last night here, I think I popped my head in
03:51:45  <Xrufuian> But as I was saying, I came for NewGRF help. Specificly, NML.
03:52:54  <Xrufuian> I guess I'm going to have to wait till tomarrow. Or go back to NFO. :(
03:54:53  <Xrufuian> Did I ever show (or send) you the LRT graphics?
03:55:14  <TruePikachu> has a NML refrence
03:55:29  <TruePikachu> IDK, you might have
03:56:09  * TruePikachu might get into NewGRF development
03:56:59  <Xrufuian> Well, you could always start with just drawing graphics.
03:57:27  <Xrufuian> I did.
03:58:38  <TruePikachu> is the refrence that I found
03:59:10  <TruePikachu> Lol, in summer school today, Bristow gave me the idea for drawing a sprite.
03:59:18  <Xrufuian> What?
03:59:28  <TruePikachu> What @ what?
03:59:53  <Xrufuian> What did Mr. Bristo give you for an idea?
04:00:58  <TruePikachu> He told us to combine graphics for a shark, eagle, and tiger to create the 'ultimate animal', and I tried combining sprites from SimLife, but I ended up doing it all by scratch. Only used 7 colors
04:01:19  <Xrufuian> Oh. What did it look like?
04:01:45  <TruePikachu> I can't explain. My computer lost power because someone pulled the plug
04:01:57  <TruePikachu> After that, I did the NMAP
04:02:34  <Xrufuian> I've hadd the threat of loosing power since sometime yesterday afternoon.
04:02:38  <TruePikachu> It was an excercise, and curvs are hard to do nicely. NewGRF GFX should be easier
04:02:48  <TruePikachu> With that fire?
04:03:06  <TruePikachu> Oh, did you hear about Blue Line Vs. Bus from this morning?
04:03:27  <TruePikachu> The train may have slightly derailed, and the bus was tipped over
04:03:33  <Xrufuian> Yep. (@ both) The fire it buring under the trans-stae powerlines...
04:03:48  <TruePikachu> Yeah, I heard on the radio this morning about both
04:04:00  <Xrufuian> You know what?
04:04:06  <TruePikachu> No, who is he?
04:05:16  <Xrufuian> We could re-create the acedent in OpenTTD. I would just have to code my Nippion Sharyo P865.
04:05:28  <TruePikachu> Uhh, but one thing...
04:05:35  <Xrufuian> Yes?
04:05:38  <TruePikachu> ...the train wouldn't stop...
04:05:43  <TruePikachu> would plow through
04:06:24  <Xrufuian> Unless if someone changes the behavor of the game.
04:06:41  <Xrufuian> That would be quite some effort though...
04:07:23  * TruePikachu thinks that a 1MPH train with 1HP weighing 1 ton would plow right through a 100,000 ton truck, completly destroying it in the process
04:07:44  <Xrufuian> Yes, yes it would.
04:07:49  <TruePikachu> Lol
04:08:06  * TruePikachu goes to submit it to FlySpray. j/k
04:08:16  <Xrufuian> Unless if you're playing Locomotion...
04:08:50  <TruePikachu> See FlySpray 3991
04:09:08  <TruePikachu> Remember what you did last game?
04:09:34  <Xrufuian> Which thing that I did?
04:09:41  <TruePikachu> Flood
04:09:48  <Xrufuian> Ya?
04:09:56  <TruePikachu> Remember how many people died? (4?)
04:10:09  <TruePikachu> Off of just the loco?
04:10:15  <TruePikachu> FS#3991
04:10:20  <Xrufuian> I see.
04:11:04  <TruePikachu> Lol @ freight train crash killing 8 people, when it would kill at most 4
04:11:33  <Xrufuian> If you think about it, acording to No. American practice, you have the Hogger, the conductor, and the brakeman.
04:11:44  <TruePikachu> Okay, 6 people at most
04:12:21  <TruePikachu> But wouldn't it kill less if the carriages are steel?
04:12:28  <Xrufuian> Nope.
04:12:39  <TruePikachu> Wait, why is there a conductor on a freight train???
04:12:57  <Xrufuian> Because he's in charge of the train.
04:13:06  <TruePikachu> ...that's the Engineer
04:13:10  <TruePikachu> AFAIKO
04:13:19  <ccfreak2k> TrueBrain, the metal frames of trains are -highly- explosive.
04:13:28  <TruePikachu> Wrong nick
04:13:28  <ccfreak2k> The entire train is instantly vaporized at the point of impact.
04:13:49  <TruePikachu> ccfreak2k: Real life or OpenTTD logic?
04:13:50  <ccfreak2k> Everyone knows that.
04:13:55  <ccfreak2k> Well...everyone but you.
04:14:11  * TruePikachu != TrueBrain
04:14:28  <Xrufuian> No, Chris. The hogger just drives. The conductor does the paperwork.
04:14:37  <ccfreak2k> It means you can pump up the station rating of a passenger station and load up trains full of people, then collide them.
04:14:37  <TruePikachu> Oh, lol
04:14:47  <ccfreak2k> Privatized euthanasia!
04:15:38  * TruePikachu wants to destroy a bus with a light particle
04:16:05  <TruePikachu> I.E. train 0ton minimal HP going at speed of light
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04:16:34  <Xrufuian> So speed: 65535 ?
04:16:41  <TruePikachu> Close enough
04:16:51  <ccfreak2k> If you want to use special relativity, it would have to occupy the entire track at all times.
04:17:08  <TruePikachu> Oh, so it will just block the road crossing
04:17:16  <ccfreak2k> Pretty much.
04:17:29  <TruePikachu> Well, when it comes out of the depot...since an entire train fits into a depot...
04:17:35  <ccfreak2k> The solution is to just keep it in the depot or behind a signal until you're ready to "fire" it.
04:17:42  <TruePikachu> Lol, I just said that
04:18:10  <TruePikachu> Then, it would only go up until the next signal
04:18:20  <Xrufuian> Hmm, I could modify my A650 to go max speed.
04:18:51  <ccfreak2k> Actually, it's an interesting paradox.
04:19:04  <ccfreak2k> Does it cross all the signals at the same time?
04:19:13  <TruePikachu> If so, it blocks itself
04:19:19  <ccfreak2k> What happens if a signal it's at is dependant on a signal behind it?
04:19:20  <TruePikachu> But then, it doesn't
04:19:27  <ccfreak2k> Does it go to the signal and stop?
04:19:45  * TruePikachu starts saving up for a supercomputer to run a modded version of OpenTTD
04:20:28  <TruePikachu> Actually, I already know the answer
04:20:45  <Xrufuian> And I can test it...
04:21:03  <TruePikachu> Xrufuian: remember what that AI did? Kernel panic?
04:21:41  <TruePikachu> The game would probably crash from doing so many signal state changes at once about one train
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04:22:16  <Xrufuian> What about Windows?
04:22:45  <TruePikachu> Xrufuian: BSoD | All: 101010_2 is the real answer
04:23:51  <Xrufuian> Lets see...
04:24:06  <Xrufuian> (I am testing at this very moment)
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04:24:52  <Xrufuian> Haha. Very funny...
04:25:51  <Xrufuian> Now I feel stupid. I started in 1980, ten years before the A650...
04:26:02  <TruePikachu> Ctrl+Alt+C
04:26:09  <ccfreak2k> Now YOU can be the one to invent the A650!
04:26:40  <Xrufuian> Those things did cost a fortune...
04:26:52  <Xrufuian> I could invest in Mircosoft too!
04:27:09  * Xrufuian has evil grin...
04:27:12  <TruePikachu> I'd invest in Microsoft, much better known
04:27:26  <TruePikachu> I've never heard of Mircosoft before
04:27:49  <Xrufuian> Chris A650 = LACMTA Red Line...
04:28:10  <TruePikachu> might have shown me the GFX in that case
04:28:37  <Xrufuian> Now I'm confused...
04:28:42  <nicfer> anyone liked the 'all climates world' patch?
04:28:57  <TruePikachu> I don't think anyone here tried it.
04:29:04  <Xrufuian> I never tried it...
04:29:11  <TruePikachu> ^^ See?
04:29:18  <Xrufuian> I ment too, but something happend...
04:29:30  * TruePikachu hates compiling things from source
04:29:46  <TruePikachu> MAKE takes too long to run on a PIII processor
04:30:00  <Xrufuian> I don't use make.
04:30:56  <TruePikachu> Well, MAKE is built into Linux, and everything gets compiled with:
04:31:08  <TruePikachu> ./configure;make;sudo make install
04:31:23  <TruePikachu> (at least it does nowadays on Linux)
04:31:43  <Xrufuian> I just right click the source, and click on compile.
04:32:09  * TruePikachu uses Text-mode Linux most of the time
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05:04:44  <andythenorth> morning
05:05:05  <andythenorth> @seen pikka
05:05:05  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 4 days, 16 hours, 26 minutes, and 3 seconds ago: <Pikka> goodnight wallyweb
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06:36:55  * andythenorth remembers the long-lost Pixie mac developer utility
06:37:00  <andythenorth> pixel sharp screen zoom :)
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07:02:59  <imachine> hello
07:03:13  <imachine> how can I use a bold font variant of a family with OpenTTD ?
07:03:27  <imachine> if I just put "arial" or so, it's great, but for medium font, I'd like bold.
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07:46:51  <Terkhen> good morning
07:50:59  <Rubidium> imachine: try Arial Bold and/or Arial, Bold
07:51:12  <Rubidium> and if that fails give the full path to the Arial Bold file
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08:45:51  <imachine> Rubidium, ok I'd like Verdana or Tahoma
08:47:03  <imachine> Rubidium, arial, bold works!
08:47:05  <imachine> cheers
08:52:13  <andythenorth> setting sprite offsets is boring
08:52:21  <andythenorth> maybe I could employ a minion :P
08:52:27  <Prof_Frink> Drilling for oil is boring
08:52:35  <andythenorth> Civil Engineering is boring
08:52:40  <andythenorth> that's why I stopped doing it
08:53:07  <Prof_Frink> Switch to uncivil engineering?
08:54:25  <andythenorth>
08:57:09  <andythenorth> since when can I paste into console? :o
08:59:03  <andythenorth> frick
08:59:08  <andythenorth> RVs have left and right drive side
08:59:10  <andythenorth> this is crap
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09:13:47  <erani_>
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09:16:47  <Rubidium> that's not starcraft's fault; it's the GPU/computer designer's fault for not cooling stuff adequately
09:17:27  <Rubidium> actually the stuff overheating might be a good way of getting higher quality hardware
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09:33:07  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20248 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_config.cpp newgrf_config.h newgrf_gui.cpp): -Codechange: use a copy-constructor instead of a separate function co clone GRFConfig/GRFError
09:33:52  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20249 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: change the newgrf name/description from a char* to a GRFText* to make translations possible
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09:35:54  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20250 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Feature: [NewGRF] add support for action14 (static grf info)
09:36:01  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20251 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_config.cpp newgrf_config.h): -Add: [NewGRF] allow grfs to specify the number of valid parameters
09:36:21  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20252 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_config.cpp newgrf_config.h saveload/newgrf_sl.cpp): -Codechange: deduplicate logic for setting a suitable (initial) palette for NewGRFs
09:40:55  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20253 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: change GRFConfig::windows_paletted into a bitmask/bitset
09:44:50  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20254 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_config.cpp newgrf_config.h): -Add: allow NewGRFs to specify their palette
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09:46:44  <Wolf01> hello
09:51:28  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20255 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_config.cpp newgrf_config.h): -Add: allow NewGRFs to specify static info about their user-changeable parameters
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09:58:48  <andythenorth> r20255 :o :D
09:59:51  <Alberth> you get spoiled :)
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10:12:33  * frosch123 missed a lot of ponies
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10:43:51  <Ammler> will version also be part of Action14?
10:44:26  <Yexo> no plans yet, but possibly
10:45:13  <Rubidium> it's actually a good idea
10:45:28  <Ammler> a simple integer like the baseset uses might be fine enough?
10:45:47  <Yexo> version as dword, then just show a single newgrf in the newgrf list (the one with highest version) instead of duplicates
10:46:07  <Ammler> that should be optional at least in dev_mode :-)
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11:39:06  <chakravanti> wiki is significantly lacking in explinations of signals  anywhere I could find a better explanation?  I'm sort of getting the idea but i still feel like i have no idea how to build signals reflecting direction (expecially with one ways)
11:42:44  <Ammler> uwe's guide
11:43:25  <Ammler>
11:44:27  <chakravanti> 'll check that out ; much appreciated
11:47:21  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20256 /trunk/src/ (gfx.cpp gfx_func.h): -Codechange: add a DrawStringMultiline variant that accepts const char* instead of StringID
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12:05:53  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20257 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: unify some node handling code and don't require a single root node
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12:15:25  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20258 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: more user-friendly gui to change NewGRF parameters
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12:22:40  <Zuu> Adding _DEBUG_DUMP gave a full re-compile :-(
12:24:44  <Rubidium> hmm, where's that needed for?
12:24:57  <Zuu> Dumping squirrel state.
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12:25:29  <Rubidium> ah; they just do it in some "global-ish" squirrel API header :)
12:25:32  <Zuu> Though, I now realized why it calls qsort, without having to dump which squirrel line it executes.
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12:26:29  <Zuu> The last debug-print is just some way above the sort-call because the last printed debug print is the one before last suspension.
12:27:11  <Zuu> Then it is able to execute quite a few lines of code including print statements before it gets to the sort-call where OpenTTD freezes for a good 10 seconds.
12:27:37  <Zuu> But the screen never gets re-painted with those print calls.
12:28:03  <Zuu> As they happen within the same tick that then later get frozen.
12:29:41  <Zuu> To solve it, I should probably look for a binary tree of some sort so the sort-work is distributed over serveral inserts instead of a giant sort-call.
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12:40:27  <Alberth> if you sequentially want to pull the smallest or biggest:  would be one option
12:42:06  <chakravanti> Do factories require all three supplied to produce goods to do they process whatever is brought in independantly?
12:43:30  <Rubidium> if your using (industry) NewGRFs it depends on the author of the industry set, if you're not using NewGRFs then it doesn't matter
12:46:29  <chakravanti> im going to assume i'm not since i don't know what that is and I just pulled openttd out of the repo (lucid64) and have been playing that without modification.
12:47:04  <Rubidium> yeah, then you're not using NewGRFs
12:48:31  <chakravanti> thank you
12:57:20  <Zuu> Alberth: Using a sorted list, I first loop over the X best items. Later I loop over all items in the list (the order does not matter here). I think I will use a Fibonacci Heap and insert all nodes there. Then I'll pop the X best nodes, look at them and insert them to a new list. Then I pop all other nodes and add to the list as well. This new list can then be used to loop over all nodes.
13:00:37  <Zuu> CluelessPlus only use the X best nodes as potential source nodes. Then for each source node it use all other nodes as possible destinations. (it discards them based on the fastest to check criteria first)
13:00:53  <Alberth> the min/max heap does something similar, it seems
13:02:55  <Zuu> For NoAI there exist a PriorityQueue library, a Fibonacci Heap library and a Binary Heap library. So I'll start with one of those.
13:05:05  <chakravanti> Cargo Payout is based on distance traveled by the carrier or 'as the crow flies'?
13:05:10  <Alberth> oh, readily available thus :)
13:05:26  <Alberth> chakravanti: yes, and speed of delivery, and amount of cargo delivered
13:05:52  <chakravanti> err, which?
13:06:06  <Rubidium> using the Manhattan distance between pickup and dropoff
13:06:47  <Rubidium> so somewhat like the crow flies, but the craw flies on a grid and can only go straight to east, west, north and south but not travel north east and such
13:06:49  <chakravanti> ah thank you
13:07:05  <chakravanti> yes i can google, lol
13:08:38  <chakravanti> i've come to openttd after some frustrations with Dwarf Fortress UI looking for a fun sim.
13:10:14  <Alberth> welcome
13:12:12  <chakravanti> ty im pretty happy so far only trouble is figuring out signals but im making some headway
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13:34:08  <TomyLobo> DF has a UI?
13:45:22  <andythenorth> omg, there's a newgrf gui? :o
13:45:30  <andythenorth> it's a pony stampede!
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13:50:45  <andythenorth> hmm
13:50:49  <andythenorth> compiling fails for me
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13:53:00  <Yexo> could you pastebin the compile log?
13:53:36  <andythenorth> it's an md5 fail....paste follows
13:53:56  <andythenorth> Yexo:
13:54:44  <frosch123> <- andythenorth: i guess you can still be the first to release a grf using the gui
13:55:00  <andythenorth> FIRS would certainly benefit from it :)
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14:04:20  <frosch123> hmm, i guess bread is not supposed to be green
14:04:40  <Alberth> for most forms of bread, no :)
14:05:08  <andythenorth> green bread is mighty tasty
14:05:32  <Alberth> and possible sickening :)
14:05:57  <andythenorth> anyone got a clue about my compile fail?
14:06:10  <andythenorth> I reverted all patches before compile
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14:06:33  <Rubidium> because you updated your compiler and now it doesn't recognise those options anymore?
14:06:50  * andythenorth ponders gcc
14:07:55  <andythenorth> ah
14:07:58  * Rubidium seems to remember someone updating his Mac software and praying it went okay
14:08:32  <andythenorth> switching from mp-gcc44 to gcc40 produces a different compile error
14:08:34  <andythenorth> what fun
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14:08:55  <Rubidium> andythenorth: rerun configure
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14:10:50  * frosch123 gets new bread
14:10:53  <andythenorth> Belugas:
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14:21:13  <andythenorth> yay
14:21:16  <andythenorth> parameter gui!
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14:25:48  <andythenorth> now what to do with this new pony...
14:25:50  <andythenorth> ?
14:26:29  <andythenorth> first, limit the number of parameters...
14:26:32  * andythenorth ponders
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14:28:38  <andythenorth> think I've grokked it
14:29:56  <andythenorth> Yexo / frosch123: so for FIRS, for example, there is a bit mask that holds 2 different settings for primary and secondary industry closure.  So that would be one parameter, but two settings?
14:30:17  <Yexo> yes
14:30:26  <Yexo> two bool settings if I understand you correctly
14:31:02  <andythenorth> yup
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14:41:13  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20259 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Add: allow NewGRFs to specify their version and use that to hide old NewGRFs / to choose the newest when loading compatible NewGRFs
14:44:32  <andythenorth> so action 14 needs to come before the action 8....
14:44:34  <andythenorth> hmmm
14:44:38  * andythenorth busy busy
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15:00:22  <Ammler> andythenorth: no version dump needed that way :-)
15:00:52  <Ammler> (or how that is called...)
15:01:34  <Ammler> bump* maybe
15:02:42  <andythenorth> yay
15:02:47  <andythenorth> progress
15:02:54  * andythenorth afk for a while
15:05:54  * roboboy thinks he will forget about building OpenTTD under DOS
15:07:15  <roboboy> i'm going to move DOS to an old laptop and replace DOS with NT4 and stick MinGW on it and try to do it that way
15:07:39  <Rubidium> dualboot
15:08:43  <roboboy> I could but I am not willing to run a full install of Linux
15:09:16  <Rubidium> who suggested installing Linux?
15:09:43  <roboboy> I thought you were hinting at it
15:10:03  <Rubidium> I was hinting at DOS + NT4
15:10:22  <roboboy> ah
15:10:56  <roboboy> but I have an old laptop with a 386 that I am going to stick DOS on
15:11:29  <roboboy> it needs a new HDD but I should be able to get a small one in the afternoon cheaply
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15:11:55  <roboboy> and then put the P3 to slightly better use
15:21:45  <Zuu> grf parameter value defaults based on current difficulty as for AIs => Action 14?
15:24:49  <Yexo> I don't think that's a good idea (I don't like that particular feature of the AI settings)
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15:52:09  <Rubidium> roboboy: can you build golden/grey tubular bridges in TTDPatch?
15:53:14  <Rubidium> (r1986 and newer)
15:54:56  <roboboy> yes
15:57:11  <Rubidium> okay, thanks
15:57:22  * roboboy wonders why
15:58:14  <Rubidium> because nforenum seems to fail (read: warn) on the new ids
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15:59:13  * roboboy thinks the wiki says they are only available in OpenTTD
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16:00:20  <Rubidium> that as well
16:03:36  <roboboy> they don't work if I turn newbridges off though (but then that is up to the user)
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16:20:16  <Zuu> Yexo: I like the idea with defaults based on difficulties so that users can select a difficulty and just go and not filddle with all settings. However the current custom level has some issues that are non-trival to solve.
16:20:59  <Rubidium> Zuu: just assume "custom" = "easy" :)
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16:33:37  * roboboy should go to bed soon
16:35:20  <chakravanti> hah wow, isn't there a tutorial for signals for someone who has never played ttd before?
16:35:31  <chakravanti> I've read wii and uwe's guide and i still feel clueless
16:35:34  <chakravanti> wiki*
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16:36:51  <Rubidium> don't know anything comprehensive than Uwe's guide
16:37:03  <Rubidium> besides playing with them in-game (and crashing some trains)
16:37:35  <chakravanti> i've been doing that but none of the signals make any sense and I'm extrodinary with logic systems
16:37:49  <roboboy> one suggestion about Uwe's guide, ignore the PBS stuff, it is written for TTDPatch
16:38:12  <chakravanti> not to toot my own horn im just saying that these guides go from signal explinations to complex network examples
16:38:19  <Alberth> perhaps you think too much :)
16:38:22  <Rubidium> roboboy: if you select that you're playing OpenTTD it should explain only OpenTTD's stuff
16:38:42  <roboboy> oh haven't been there in ages
16:38:46  <chakravanti> would be nice to see something that breaks it down to basic intersections and how do a basic frikin merge
16:39:22  <Alberth> chakravanti: we all know signals here, so have no clue what a newbie needs to have. which is basically why it does not exist
16:39:36  <chakravanti> i mean, i can even get two train on one track with two stations at each side to wait correctly
16:39:55  <Rubidium> chakravanti: ?
16:40:06  <Alberth> chakravanti: if you have an example problem, just ask here
16:40:23  <Rubidium> that should show you how can do it with fairly simply setups
16:40:30  <chakravanti> thank you Rubidium that's what i was looking for, apparently i didn't dig around his stuff enough
16:40:53  <chakravanti> i'm gonna work with this for a bit and see what I can get going thanks a lot guys
16:40:58  <Alberth>
16:41:15  <Alberth>
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16:42:01  <Alberth> usually getting a concrete example problem and having someone talking you through it, works good
16:47:25  <chakravanti> okay no this is not helpful
16:47:38  <chakravanti> i think my problem might be in identifying signal types
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16:47:48  <chakravanti> all these pictures talk about the network and not about the signals used
16:47:52  <chakravanti> how, and why
16:48:20  <keoz> chakravanti : just start with a simple statement: only one train can stay on one railblock
16:48:22  <Alberth>
16:48:27  <keoz> railblocks are devided by signals
16:48:38  <keoz> so more trains can stay on the same track
16:49:46  <Alberth> use the standard block signal first, I say
16:49:48  <chakravanti> that makes no sense to me.  I'm starting to feel really dense
16:50:10  <keoz> it is not about making sense or not, it's a rule :)
16:50:31  <Alberth> ok, you understand 1 train at tracks?
16:50:37  <chakravanti> right
16:50:50  <roboboy> have you tried following the examples in-game?
16:50:58  <chakravanti> no i can't
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16:51:06  <chakravanti> i don't have a clue what the examples are showing
16:51:08  <keoz> you should
16:51:16  <keoz> try the tutorials given by Alberth
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16:51:32  <Alberth> now, if you'd add a second train (if OpenTTD would let you do that)   at the same tracks, they would collide
16:51:51  <Alberth> lots of people killed, you loose money. Not good for business
16:52:20  <chakravanti> see this is the thing
16:52:28  <chakravanti> you guys talk about the trains and the networks
16:52:31  <Alberth> by adding a signal, you create blocks, pieces of track 'surrounded' by signals
16:52:35  <chakravanti> I look at those patterns and they make sense
16:52:37  <keoz> hey, that's a good way to explain signals: a screen shot with two trains were you delete the signal :-)
16:52:45  <chakravanti> what i don't understand is signals
16:52:58  <keoz> they are delimiter
16:53:01  <Alberth> they seperate the blocks
16:53:10  <Alberth> each block can contian at most one train
16:53:12  <keoz> they define separated blocks of track
16:53:31  <keoz> (basically)
16:53:36  <chakravanti> ...
16:53:51  <Alberth> that's about all there is to say
16:53:59  <chakravanti> you would think
16:54:01  <Alberth> what do you want to know further
16:54:16  <chakravanti> how to tell signals aparts for starters
16:54:20  <chakravanti> they all look the same
16:54:30  <keoz> make a simple test: a track, with station A, B, and a depot inbetween; launch a train and when he is in one station, buy another train, and give him an order to the other station
16:54:34  <Alberth> oh, a train can go from one block to the next, if the block is free
16:54:51  <Alberth> running 1.0.2 ?
16:54:59  <chakravanti> hoi have read the explination on signals
16:55:02  <keoz> after that, you put a signal, anyone, (not a PBS though), and you see what happen
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16:55:14  <chakravanti> i understand what they're supposed to do but have no idea how to put them together
16:55:33  <Alberth> just start with the standard block signal
16:55:41  <keoz> chakravanti : you know that the better way to learn, is to practice and watch ?
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16:55:53  <keoz> so, try following the examples
16:56:14  <chakravanti> keoz you got nothin for me?  Yeah I've been fucking with the game for a week now
16:56:39  <Alberth> so you have a concrete example problem?
16:57:01  <Alberth> or some experiment that you did?
16:57:14  <chakravanti> I have, quitnessentially, and X setup
16:57:30  <chakravanti> two stations at each end, two trains, and one trackin the middle
16:57:46  <Alberth> good, could you post is somewhere?
16:57:47  <chakravanti> and no clue how to place signals, or even which ones to use
16:58:07  <chakravanti> let me get a screenshot and such
16:58:14  <Alberth> use standard block signal, nothing else, for the time being
16:58:39  <Alberth> the other signals are also interesting, but you should not want everything at the same time
16:58:58  <Alberth> oh, and an explanation of how you want the trains to run, would also help
17:01:51  <chakravanti> i think this SS should be comprehensive as to where I'm at
17:02:42  <chakravanti>
17:03:14  <andythenorth> Yexo: fastest way to test changes in newgrf for settings gui....remove grf from active list and re-add it?
17:03:35  <Yexo> you definitely have to rescan the newgrf list
17:03:41  <Yexo> perhaps you even need to restart openttd
17:04:14  <andythenorth> possibly
17:04:19  <Alberth> chakravanti: ok, use double sided standard block signals, the lower left one in the signal gui
17:04:36  <Alberth> at every track just befor the platform
17:04:40  <Alberth> ie 4 signals
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17:07:04  <andythenorth> Yexo: is it possible that the game somehow caches the settings even between restarts?
17:07:14  <Yexo> no
17:07:43  <chakravanti> Okay so that works and lets one train on the tracks at a time but i'm going to need to patch in more how do i set up the rest of it
17:07:45  <Yexo> well, if the newgrf is in your active list then the value of the parameters will be stored in the config file
17:08:06  <andythenorth> hmm
17:08:10  <andythenorth> rescan files...doesn't
17:08:56  <andythenorth> I might have some legacy issues
17:09:13  <andythenorth> the OS X port moved default location of data folder some while ago yes/no?
17:09:23  <frosch123> andythenorth: rename the files :)
17:10:10  <Alberth> chakravanti: you understand that you cannot have more than 2 trains here?
17:10:52  <chakravanti> because the single line is a choke?
17:11:02  <Alberth>
17:11:37  <chakravanti> it should be able to hold three
17:11:43  <Alberth> yes, if 2 trains are at 2 platforms at one side, and a 3rd train arrives there as well, you have deadlock
17:12:18  <Alberth> the 3rd train cannot get to either platform, and both trains at the platform cannot leave until the 3rd train arrived at the platform
17:12:27  <andythenorth> rescan files *is* broken for me
17:12:45  <andythenorth> could be because I have two 'data' directories?
17:13:13  <Alberth> chakravanti: for this reason, it is much more efficient to dedicate one track to one direction
17:13:40  <Alberth> lay one track for trains from station A to B, and one track for trains in the other direction
17:14:27  <chakravanti> that's kind of the idea
17:14:44  <chakravanti> i want to get this set up, and make some profit then turn it into a loop
17:14:54  <Alberth>  explains it
17:15:29  <chakravanti> which is the reason I'm starting with two platforms at each end
17:15:33  <Alberth> except it has one platform at one end, but just  make it 2
17:16:02  <Alberth> you can perfectly run a loop with two 1 platform stations, if you like
17:16:14  <Alberth> but that's later :)
17:16:25  <chakravanti> ugh
17:16:46  <chakravanti> see...i understand the networks and layout and efficiency shit
17:16:59  <chakravanti> it's how to arrange signals that has me lost
17:17:42  <Alberth> I don't think in signals, I think in blocks
17:18:15  <andythenorth> Yexo: anything wrong with this?
17:18:42  <ccfreak2k> chakravanti, remember that a train won't pass through the backside of a signal unless A) it's bidirectional or B) it's a pbs signal.
17:19:01  <Yexo> andythenorth: looks ok (that limits parameter 0 to values of 0 and 1
17:19:14  <andythenorth> doesn't seem to work.  That's why I was asking about caching
17:19:16  <andythenorth> :(
17:19:17  <Yexo> oh, yes, you're missing the length of the data
17:19:23  <Yexo> \w8 after "LIMI"
17:19:40  <andythenorth> ah, my creaky old renum has no idea how to  fix that :)
17:19:52  <Yexo> "B" "TYPE" \w1 1 <- that would be better, it changes the setting to a bool (which is always either 0 or 1
17:19:53  <chakravanti> Alberth, that's fine because you understand signals
17:20:19  <Alberth> chakravanti: I see track, and think 'from here to here' should be one train. At the edges, you then put signals
17:20:28  <Rubidium> andythenorth: bloody new NFOrenum neither, although it could have warned on that snippet
17:20:47  <andythenorth> I'm still on some crazy wine-based renum
17:20:51  <andythenorth> can't remember why
17:21:21  <chakravanti> Alberth, how do you know what kind of signal to place?
17:21:24  <Rubidium> oh, you'll have to compile yourself for the latest and greatest
17:21:57  <andythenorth> Yexo: (1) is that a documentation error?
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17:22:09  <Alberth> chakravanti: you can do a lot with the standard block signal
17:22:18  <andythenorth> (2) remove from active list, rescan, re-add does seem to work for changes to settings gui
17:22:36  <Alberth> the exception is when you need to keep blocks free
17:22:41  <andythenorth> yexo (the missing length) - was copied from TTDP wiki
17:22:44  <Rubidium> andythenorth: yes, it's broken wiki
17:22:45  <Alberth> eg in front of a station
17:22:48  <Yexo> "B" <identifier> <length> <binary-data> <- it's there
17:22:59  <Alberth> at those place you better use a PBS signal
17:23:06  <Rubidium> Yexo: but it isn't
17:23:11  <Alberth> and the other ones you basically don't need
17:23:11  <Yexo> the "LIMI" example is indeed wrong
17:23:13  <andythenorth> it's missing in example, shall I change it?
17:23:17  *** Zuu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:24:07  <chakravanti>
17:24:07  <Yexo> Rubidium is already editing the page
17:24:20  <chakravanti> how do imake it run one way counter clockwise?
17:24:28  <andythenorth> hmm
17:24:36  <Yexo> chakravanti: click (with signal tool) on the signal
17:24:58  <chakravanti> what?
17:25:13  <Rubidium> Yexo: \w8, right?
17:25:19  <Yexo> enable the signal tool (as if you're going to build a new signal), then click on a signal to make it one-way
17:25:22  <Yexo> Rubidium: yes
17:25:23  <Alberth> place a signal, then click again without moving the signal tool
17:25:26  <andythenorth> hmm....remove, rescan, re-add, apply changes actually seems to be the correct rout
17:25:27  <andythenorth> e
17:25:35  <Rubidium> wiki fixed
17:25:45  <chakravanti> ....
17:26:27  <Yexo> chakravanti: see
17:26:31  <Yexo> #  Create One way signals by clicking on an existing signal. The signal will cycle through 2-way, one-way and one-way (opposite direction).
17:26:46  <Alberth> when you click again, one of the signal poles disappears
17:26:47  <Yexo> has an example you could follow
17:26:58  <Alberth> click again, the other one disappears, etc
17:27:33  <andythenorth> Yexo: do enumeration values also need the length?
17:27:55  <andythenorth> seems to work without
17:27:59  <Yexo> andythenorth: no, only binary nodes (type "B") need them
17:28:04  <Yexo> text nodes (type "T") do not
17:28:07  <andythenorth> awesome
17:28:09  <chakravanti> okay hold on...i need to go smoke and put my head through a brick wall because that makes no sense to me
17:28:18  <andythenorth> I didn't fancy counting bytes in a text
17:31:25  <chakravanti> i've read the wiki and everyone keeps saying the same things the wiki says
17:31:49  <chakravanti> so obviously it's me?  but i usually learn shit like this pretty quick, i'm not being dense on purpose
17:31:57  <Yexo> chakravanti: have you created the examples from the wiki (for example the one-way example here: ) yourself to see it running in-game ?
17:32:28  <chakravanti> i can do that
17:32:36  <chakravanti> i think on this track
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17:36:27  <chakravanti> now i seem to be having a seperate problem...the factory isn't producing goods...?
17:37:04  <Alberth>
17:37:31  <Alberth> only if you bring cargoes it needs
17:38:17  <Alberth> ie bring it livestock, grain, or steel
17:38:33  <andythenorth> Yexo:
17:38:43  <chakravanti> I've got the farm, the trains, with livestock and grain carts hauling between the two
17:39:07  <Yexo> andythenorth: :)
17:39:22  <andythenorth> doesn't do anything yet, I haven't mapped settings onto parameters
17:39:22  <Rubidium> you didn't set a version yet :(
17:39:43  <andythenorth> no
17:39:48  <andythenorth> I'll do that next
17:39:51  <Yexo> andythenorth: by default each settings maps to the same param, ie setting 0 maps to param 0
17:39:53  <Alberth> chakravanti: then bring a train carrying goods to the station near it, it will start delivering goods
17:40:00  <andythenorth> Yexo: that's mighty handy
17:40:09  <Alberth> s/carrying/that can carry/
17:40:34  <ccfreak2k> "Parameter 1 controls the first parameter."
17:40:43  * andythenorth double-reads "As such it is important to prevent releasing multiple GRFs with the same version number."
17:40:56  <chakravanti> no it's not, the sawmill is producing goods (%0 transported) but the factory is producing 0 goods
17:41:10  * andythenorth needs to update the FIRS release checklist :0
17:41:23  <Alberth> can you upload the save game?
17:42:11  <chakravanti> yup
17:42:34  <Alberth> note that those numbers are from last month
17:43:00  <Alberth> ie wait until the next month before you see the 'current' numbers
17:43:31  <chakravanti>
17:43:33  <ccfreak2k> Oh no, this channel is full of FIRSies!
17:43:44  <Alberth> only one version :)
17:43:50  <chakravanti>
17:44:13  <andythenorth> ccfreak2k: are FIRSies a variant of furries? :o
17:45:35  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20260 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:45:35  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:35  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: basque - 13 changes by Thadah
17:45:35  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belarusian - 313 changes by KorneySan
17:45:35  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 4 changes by Yexo
17:45:36  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: finnish - 3 changes by jpx_
17:45:36  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: korean - 5 changes by telk5093
17:45:38  <Yexo> chakravanti: just wait one month
17:46:12  <Alberth> chakravanti: you have to fix your depot
17:46:31  <Alberth> if a train visits it, it cannot reach the station near the factory anymore
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17:47:39  <Alberth> also, if you add signals just before the station of the farm, the long track from the factory to the farm becomes a seperate block
17:47:44  <chakravanti> it has a 90 degree turn but why not?
17:47:54  <chakravanti> not ideal for speed but it shouldbe able to get there
17:47:58  <Alberth> oh, you allow that?
17:48:00  <Alberth> fine then
17:48:25  <chakravanti> i've waited a year on this setup
17:48:27  <Alberth> it was reverting here, but I have 90 degree turns disabled by default
17:48:27  <chakravanti> it's not the time
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17:49:02  <Alberth> factory produces 67 crates of goods here (feb 11, 1952
17:49:13  <roman> I've a problem getting opengfx/opensfx to work
17:49:42  <Yexo> chakravanti: train arrives at quarnly market heights, dumps livestock, then in the next month the factory will produce goods
17:49:45  <Alberth> well, with opengfx I may be able to help you
17:49:50  <roman> My /usr/share/games/openttd/data contains currently this
17:49:55  <Yexo> the month after that it'll show it produced 0 goods again
17:50:15  <Alberth> roman: ok
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17:50:23  <roman> <- but the game does not start
17:50:39  <Alberth> where do you have the opengfx file?
17:51:03  <roman> the tar archive?
17:51:07  <Alberth> yes
17:51:15  <roman> in /usr/share/games/openttd/data
17:51:33  <Alberth> oh, I am blind. sorry
17:52:04  <Yexo> roman: opensfx should be in /usr/share/games/openttd/gm
17:52:17  <chakravanti> Yexo, so why hasn't it done so in over the year ive run the sim?
17:52:49  <chakravanti> okay nvm i see
17:52:50  <Alberth> chakravanti: if you bring cargoes less than once a month, in that month the factory will not produce goods
17:52:54  <Yexo> chakravanti: no idea, you could start by upgrading to a non-modified 1.0.2
17:53:47  <roman> the opensfx readme says "/data"
17:53:50  <Ammler> [19:52] <Yexo> roman: opensfx should be in /usr/share/games/openttd/gm <-- wrong
17:54:32  <Ammler> roman: did you install openttd self?
17:54:41  <Ammler> or also through package?
17:55:03  <Yexo> oh, sorry, that is openmsx
17:55:07  <roman> through apt-get
17:55:13  <roman> ubuntu 9.04
17:56:08  <Ammler> roman: do you get an error if you start openttd with console
17:56:16  <roman> Ammler: yes.
17:56:25  <roman>
17:56:47  <Rubidium> what version of OpenTTD are you using?
17:56:53  <Rubidium> it sounds like a quite old version
17:57:16  <Rubidium> i.e. one where e.g. OpenSFX was not supported
17:57:27  <roman> 0.6.3
17:57:45  <Alberth> oh, neither opengfx nor opensfx works there
17:57:48  <Yexo> get a new openttd version from as soon as possible
17:57:50  <Rubidium> oh, even older; that doesn't support OpenGFX or OpenSFX
17:57:55  <roman> which is really old
17:57:59  <roman> as i recognize now
17:58:16  <roman> hm.
17:58:20  <roman> i'll build it from source
17:58:31  <chakravanti> roman, why aren't you using lucid?
17:58:44  <chakravanti> it's up to date in lucid
17:58:55  <Rubidium> chakravanti: it isn't
17:59:17  <Rubidium> it's way more up-to-date, but lucid is running 1.0.0 and 1.0.2 is current
17:59:19  <roman> Lucid afaik also has the opengfx stuff in the repos
17:59:28  <chakravanti> lucid is 1.0
17:59:33  <Rubidium> yes, Lucid has OpenGFX and OpenSFX in the repository
18:01:28  <roman> *compiling*
18:02:33  <chakravanti> again what's the hold up on upgrading ubuntu?  10.04 has just about everything except HD working out of the box
18:03:13  <roman> I'm afraid it might break my system ;)
18:04:47  <roman> I once did a dist-upgrade on my debian machine
18:04:56  <roman> and the result was definitely not satisfying
18:05:39  <Rubidium> roman: you might get trouble with the PulseAudio in your version of Ubuntu; please check the known-bugs.txt before complaining that OpenTTD is very slow/hangs when closing
18:08:59  <roman> it indeed is slow
18:09:04  <roman> but not on closing.
18:09:10  <andythenorth> Yexo / frosch123 I'm guessing grf version doesn't have any way to support point versions?
18:09:10  <roman> always :)
18:09:37  <Yexo> andythenorth: fixed-point decimals
18:09:52  <Yexo> take the openttd newgrf version as example
18:10:28  <andythenorth> where do I look?
18:10:41  <Yexo> var A1
18:10:50  <Yexo> explanation below the variables table
18:10:52  <chakravanti> roman, well yeah, upgrades always suck...fresh installs are always worth it
18:11:31  <chakravanti> especially when moving into an LTs with a bunch of new software like xrandr and grub 2
18:11:51  <perk111> openttd is always slow when you have more than 3000 trains
18:11:56  *** perk111 is now known as perk11
18:12:13  <andythenorth> Yexo: thanks
18:12:15  * andythenorth ponders
18:14:36  <andythenorth> Yexo: does this read as FIRS 0.4 to you? dx00004000
18:15:01  <Yexo> maybe also include the revision number in there?d
18:15:02  <frosch123> better do \w4 \w0
18:15:22  <Yexo> so nightly compiles can also get a correct version number
18:15:24  <frosch123> good point \b0 \b4 \w<revision>
18:16:01  <Yexo> shouldn't that be \w<revision> \b4 \b0 ?
18:16:54  <Yexo> and depending on what version you're using for the nightlies (are nightlies before 0.5 called 0.5-rev or 0.4-rev) you also need a bit for "release version" like openttd
18:17:38  <chakravanti> trains can't make 45 degree turns immediately after exiting a staiton or what?
18:17:59  <perk11> they can
18:19:06  <chakravanti> i guess my trains arte just stupid =/
18:19:36  <chakravanti> and i can't use fucking signals even if i knew how because it says I can't place them wtf
18:19:50  <Lakie> Just a quick question, with new rail types, when it says stringid which range does it actually take?
18:19:58  <Lakie> Or will it use any given
18:20:20  <chakravanti> i guess a major frustratyion i'm having is being unable to see these tiny little graphics
18:20:26  <Lakie> (The wiki doesn't clarify).
18:20:50  <chakravanti> and i just bought a new "22 1080p monitor
18:20:52  <Yexo> any given (as openttd does everywhere)
18:21:15  <Lakie> Heh, ok
18:21:21  <chakravanti> it's still a pain to look at even at 1280x800
18:21:23  <Yexo> normally you'd use some 0xD0xx range I think
18:21:45  <Lakie> Not the 0xd4 range?
18:22:06  *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro
18:22:25  <Lakie> Having a little problem working out if the object action0 should accept 0xd0 or 0xd4 only (currently does both)
18:22:34  <Yexo> yes (but in the action4 code that would be the 0xD0 range)
18:22:48  <Lakie> Aye
18:25:59  <Yexo> for openttd you can interchange every 0xD0xx with 0xD4xx (and vice versa) and it'll work the same, at least if my interpretation of the code is correct
18:26:50  <Lakie> Same for objects currently
18:27:10  <Lakie> Ok, thanks anyway.
18:28:09  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20261 /branches/1.0/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
18:28:09  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
18:28:09  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Make it possible to properly assess the length of the rail toolbar caption, don't require '{WHITE}' control codes (r20242)
18:28:09  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Check for disallowed level crossings also when converting rail (r20237)
18:28:09  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Haiku uses a 'special' location for headers (r20219)
18:28:10  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Desync due to (temporary) wrong railtype; when loading a savegame the railtype of some (high ID) trains could be wrong [FS#3945] (r20137)
18:30:43  <TomyLobo> what's the VCS you're using?
18:31:15  <Rubidium> the one and only subversion
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18:33:04  <Ammler> Action14 too much for backport?
18:33:20  *** Dreamxtreme [Dreamxtrem@] has joined #openttd
18:35:56  <Yexo> yes
18:37:54  <Rubidium> definitely at this stage of the release cycle
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18:47:33  *** Dreamxtreme [Dreamxtrem@] has joined #openttd
19:02:40  <TomyLobo> [20:28:14] <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Haiku uses a 'special' location for headers (r20219)
19:02:48  <TomyLobo> what's haiku? localisation? :)
19:03:26  *** roboboy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:04:18  <TomyLobo> oh, a beos derivative
19:10:22  *** Dreamxtreme [Dreamxtrem@] has quit [Quit: There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence.]
19:14:27  <andythenorth> wonder if grf revision can be provided by cpp - planetmaker already templated quite a lot of version stuff
19:14:41  <andythenorth> otherwise it's one more thing to maintain :o
19:15:21  <Rubidium> andythenorth: try \d{{REPO_REVISION}}
19:16:13  <andythenorth> is grf version displayed anywhere?
19:16:16  <andythenorth> in game
19:16:32  <Rubidium> newgrf window below the grfid
19:17:23  *** duckblaster [] has joined #openttd
19:17:34  <andythenorth> :) need to compile.
19:17:40  <andythenorth> features are arriving fast today :)
19:26:08  <Rubidium> it's been there for ages
19:29:56  <andythenorth> was it not added in 20259?
19:31:33  <Rubidium> yes
19:44:45  <Narcissus> Hey, how would I go about associating an IRC channel with my openttd server?
19:46:13  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20262 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp economy_type.h): -Codechange: Remove unused ScoreInfo::id field, and doxyment the data structures.
19:46:28  <Yexo> Narcissus: by using a tool like ap+ to redirect all chat to/from irc
19:46:44  <Narcissus> Yexo: I didn't understand that
19:47:15  <Yexo> you need another program (for example ap+) to redirect all openttd chat to an irc channel and ther other way around
19:47:27  <Narcissus> okay
19:47:30  <Narcissus> how do I get ap_
19:47:32  <Narcissus> ap+ *
19:47:38  <Yexo> you could start by googling for it
19:47:41  <Alberth> search the internet
19:47:46  <Narcissus> I did
19:47:59  <Alberth> search the forums?
19:48:00  <Yexo> I'm not convinced you've already read
19:48:13  <Narcissus> Yexo: I haven't, because ap+ != autopilot
19:48:19  <Narcissus> I will read that, however.
19:48:31  <Yexo> ap+ is an improved version of autopilot
19:48:56  <Alberth> "ap%2B" looks like "ap+" to me
19:49:08  <Yexo> Alberth: it is
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19:49:13  <Rubidium> Narcissus: then why do you think Yexo links with the ap+ page? Okay, that + in URLs are translated to %2B is something you might not know
19:49:22  <Yexo> Autopilot/ap+  - #openttdcoop Wiki
19:49:22  <Yexo>  / 1 Apr 2010 ... ap+ is a branch of Autopilot - Trying to not lose too many fea.... <- that was the summary in google
19:49:33  <Rubidium> but with one click on the URL you would've seen the page is about ap+
19:50:22  <Narcissus> Rubidium: I know that, but I searched the wiki, not - dont have a go at me for not knowing the right place to search for information on this
19:50:52  <Narcissus> I hate it when people who are quite regularly involved in a project/community peer down their noses at relative newbies
19:51:10  <Rubidium> but you said you had googled
19:51:22  <Narcissus> I did, none of the links looked relevant at first scan
19:51:43  <Narcissus> anyway
19:51:45  <Narcissus> I have what I wanted
19:51:55  <Narcissus> you can go back to picking your bums now or whatever
19:52:04  <Rubidium> searching for ap+ and openttd gives quite a few relevant things on the first page
19:52:22  <Narcissus> Rubidium: read my last 3 lines
19:52:49  <Alberth> "openttd irc connect" gives auopilot as 4th hit
19:52:59  <Alberth> *autopilot
19:53:00  * andythenorth is puzzled by how to encode the grf revision
19:53:26  <Alberth> how many numbers do you want to squeesh into one?
19:53:33  <andythenorth> "B" "VRSN" \w4 \w0 \bx40 \b0 produces 4194304
19:53:49  <Rubidium> yes, it's printed as decimal
19:53:50  <andythenorth> I'm not sure what I should be encoding tbg
19:54:11  <andythenorth> what outputs are we expecting to see?
19:54:34  <andythenorth> i.e. what do players expect to see?
19:55:02  <Rubidium> well, I'm wondering how useful the text is for non-NewGRF developers
19:55:11  <Alberth> some weird number, most likely
19:55:28  <Alberth> bigger == newer would be enough, I think
19:55:38  <Rubidium> i.e. if it would only be shown when newgrf_developer_tools is enabled you can just dump the revision there and be done with it
19:56:09  <Rubidium> just don't care about doing something difficult with "hacking" the version into it
19:56:30  <Rubidium> after all, OpenTTD doesn't display the NewGRF version to the user; it only passes it to NewGRFs
19:56:56  <andythenorth> in which case the suggestion to use repo number is easiest (and it works)
19:57:19  <Rubidium> so only show it if developers stuff is enabled?
19:57:35  <andythenorth> makes sense
19:58:05  <Rubidium> any objections?
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20:03:53  <roelmb> Is their a possibilty that you can lock openttd maps?
20:04:26  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20263 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Change: only show the NewGRF version when newgrf_developer_tools are enabled
20:04:28  <Rubidium> lock in what sense?
20:04:50  *** perk111 [~perk11@] has joined #openttd
20:04:55  <roelmb> that others can't make changes to the map
20:05:28  <roelmb> that they can't edit the maps
20:06:21  <Rubidium> that doesn't exist
20:06:38  <roelmb> ok and can it be implented when many people like it?
20:06:40  <Yexo> it does: don't upload the map to the internet and don't run a server with that map
20:06:46  <roelmb> :D
20:07:04  <roelmb> that wasn't really the possibility
20:07:06  <Yexo> "can it be implemented" has no relation at all with "many people like it"
20:07:47  *** perk11 [~perk11@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:07:55  <Yexo> if you mean a multiplayer server, then yes, you could patch it to not allow any terraforming at all
20:08:00  <Ammler> if you get a group of 11 people, which like a feature, it will be implemented immediately
20:08:09  <roelmb> lolz
20:08:13  <Alberth> by Ammler :)
20:08:16  *** Nite_Owl [] has joined #openttd
20:08:24  <Rubidium> I'd say: by that group
20:08:30  <Ammler> :-)
20:08:45  <roelmb> lolz
20:08:46  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
20:08:57  <Alberth> hello Nite_Owl
20:09:09  <Nite_Owl> Hello Alberth
20:09:21  <Alberth> Nite_Owl: nice long sleeps nowadays, eh?
20:09:38  <Alberth> you just have to work very hard during the night, I guess
20:09:42  <Ammler> roelmb: you could place on every tile a transmitter
20:09:48  <roelmb> LOLZ
20:10:02  <roelmb> then it can be edited with the scenario editor
20:10:06  <Nite_Owl> Just a tad busier than usual
20:10:09  <Alberth> every other yile would be sufficient :)
20:10:12  <roelmb> and that is what I don't want too
20:10:45  <Nite_Owl> Minor glitch in r20260 - you cannot save a NewGrf preset
20:11:05  *** roelmb [] has quit []
20:11:21  <Yexo> roelmb: what you want is technically impossible
20:11:26  <Yexo> oh, too late :(
20:13:41  <Rubidium> Nite_Owl: did it work in the previous nightly?
20:14:23  <Nite_Owl> It worked in r20240 as far as I know but I would have to revert back to be sure
20:15:13  <Nite_Owl> Give a moment to double check
20:17:27  <Nite_Owl> Yes - r20240 does work
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20:17:46  <Eddi|zuHause> <Ammler> if you get a group of 11 people, which like a feature, it will be implemented immediately <-- from that rule i deduce: there are less than 11 mac users.
20:18:20  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: no, that is incorrect... there are less than 11 people that like macs
20:18:55  <Rubidium> Yexo: apparantly "we" broke NewGRF presets today
20:19:05  <Nite_Owl> I only found that glitch by a fluke as I wanted to check out a newly released Grf
20:19:14  <Yexo> hmm, let's see
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20:23:47  <Rubidium> 20257 works
20:25:01  <Yexo> r20258 is wrong
20:25:09  <Yexo> second-last chunk misses some lines
20:25:45  <Yexo> SaveGRFPresetToConfig(str, this->actives);
20:25:45  <Yexo>  / GetGRFPresetList(&_grf_preset_list);
20:25:45  <Yexo>  to be precise
20:28:32  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20264 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Fix (r20258): saving a new preset was broken
20:29:56  <Nite_Owl> My that was quick - thank you
20:34:48  * andythenorth believes there are approximately at least 11 mac users.  In the world.
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20:43:37  <yorick> hmm does the openttd logo have any license
20:43:59  <TruePikachu> IDK
20:44:26  * TruePikachu goes to check
20:46:23  <TruePikachu> Wikimedia claims GNU General Public v2 or later applies to the logo
20:46:49  <TruePikachu> And that the logo itself is 'free software'
20:47:39  <TruePikachu> Xru has just last game encounter a major train crash with PBS, he didn't know it was a bug!
20:47:59  <TruePikachu> Strange, as I never have that kind of crash unless I'm manually controlling
20:48:31  <yorick> but what does the LGPL mean for a logo
20:48:44  <yorick> that I have to include the license every time I 'distribute' it
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20:50:21  <TruePikachu> Yes, you would have to embed the GPL license into the image somehow
20:51:26  <Alberth> __ln__:   ok?
20:54:20  <__ln__> Alberth: looks very good.
20:54:29  <Alberth> ok, thank you
20:55:46  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20265 /branches/1.0/ (5 files in 3 dirs): [1.0] -Prepare: for 1.0.3
20:55:55  <andythenorth> Yexo: feature request :)  Settings GUI bool - append 'on' or 'off' same as game advanced settings window
20:57:35  *** Nite_Owl [] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon]
21:03:09  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20266 /trunk/src/ (35 files in 10 dirs): -Doc: Mostly typo fixes, a few doxygen-related improvements.
21:04:59  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20267 /tags/1.0.3/ (9 files in 4 dirs): -Release: 1.0.3
21:05:54  <Yexo> andythenorth: it's easy if you don't care about the color of the word "on" or "off"
21:06:15  <Yexo> ie always white/orange, you won't be able to set it from the newgrf string
21:06:28  <andythenorth> that's fine, it should not be under control of newgrf author
21:06:33  <Yexo> ok
21:09:16  * andythenorth has a GUI working, but might need to rebuild some FIRS parameter code :|
21:09:31  <andythenorth> planetmaker wrote that for me :o
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21:17:21  <andythenorth> previously FIRS was packing several options into some parameters
21:17:30  <andythenorth> now each can be a setting :)
21:17:53  <andythenorth> but my brain can't figure out how to migrate the existing code
21:18:36  <Yexo> why not keep the existing code?
21:18:49  <Yexo> the new gui can handle packing multiple options in one parameter
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21:20:33  <TruePikachu> Wait - we have 1.0.3 now?
21:20:57  <Eddi|zuHause> no. it's still compiling
21:21:06  <TruePikachu> What's the ETA?
21:21:33  <Eddi|zuHause> typically about half an hour, not sure
21:21:41  <TruePikachu> For all OSes?
21:21:51  <Yexo> yes
21:22:12  <TruePikachu> So, about 10 minutes?
21:22:18  <TruePikachu> * from now
21:22:52  <Yexo> nightly today took 44 minutes, so it should be done in 26 minutes from now
21:23:05  <TruePikachu> What's the URL for the 1.0.3 changelog?
21:23:25  <Yexo> it will be on the download page
21:23:38  <TruePikachu> I want to read it beforhand :)
21:23:42  <Yexo> <- there, but it doesn't work yet
21:23:45  <Yexo> check the commit logs
21:24:02  <TruePikachu> When will it be up?
21:24:13  <Rubidium> releases take slightly longer to compile
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21:24:23  <Rubidium> primarily because more binaries are generated
21:24:39  <TruePikachu> When will changelog be up?
21:25:12  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20268 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Add: append 'On'/'Off' after the name for boolean NewGRF settings
21:25:15  <Yexo> at the same time as the binaries
21:25:41  <TruePikachu> ^^^ uhh...will that commit break anything w/ compile?
21:25:42  <andythenorth> Yexo: so if I use mask chunks....I can pack
21:25:59  <Yexo> TruePikachu:
21:26:11  <Yexo> andythenorth: yes
21:26:17  <Eddi|zuHause> TruePikachu: no.
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21:26:40  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: lies...
21:26:46  <Rubidium> commits make the compile farm slower!
21:26:53  *** Prisk1 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:27:00  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. by 0.0003 seconds ;)
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21:27:47  <Rubidium> 6/15+mirroring
21:28:08  *** Adambean [] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing]
21:28:27  <Rubidium> that's where we are at now with the compile farm
21:28:30  *** Lakie [~Lakie@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:28:30  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: you always aim for midnight at 1st <Month>?
21:28:52  <Rubidium> not always, but generally yes
21:29:18  <Eddi|zuHause> midnight has the lowest initial blow? :)
21:29:38  * TruePikachu sets up his automated updater
21:30:04  <TruePikachu> When the patch goes up, it will be downloaded and extracted
21:30:05  <Eddi|zuHause> TruePikachu: you could have been done fetching the source and compiling yourself by now...
21:30:16  * TruePikachu hates compiling from source
21:30:19  *** Grelouk_ [~Grelouk@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:30:22  <TruePikachu> I've said that many times
21:30:43  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: nah, although it's quieter than around nightly time
21:31:18  *** TomyLobo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:31:19  <Rubidium> TTDP's nightlies, those are built when it is really quiet
21:31:19  <TruePikachu> Remember, this is only a 800MHz processor with 192MB RAM used as a terminal and as a small server for this home network
21:31:22  <Alberth> TruePikachu: 'patch' ?
21:31:34  <TruePikachu> Sorry, typo
21:32:05  <Rubidium> cpu MHz         : 800.000
21:32:05  <Rubidium> cache size      : 6144 KB
21:32:16  <TruePikachu> ^^ for what?
21:32:17  <Rubidium> my cpu also has 800 MHz, but only 6 MB of memory
21:32:27  <TruePikachu> O_o I have 192MB
21:32:49  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: how many people actually do download TTDP nightlies?
21:34:24  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: 30/Jul 06:25-31/Jul 06:25 a whole 18 downloads
21:34:31  <TruePikachu> lol
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21:35:04  <TruePikachu> It would be better to check the IP distrubution of nightlies between 1.0.2 and 1.0.3
21:35:21  <TruePikachu> Use the number of unique IP addresses
21:35:31  <frosch123> we have no statistics about the download of ttdp 1.0.2 and 1.0.3
21:35:38  <Eddi|zuHause> TruePikachu: that doesn't make any sense, 99% of IP addresses are dynamic, so change every day
21:35:41  <Rubidium> 17 of those win32 and 1 source
21:35:48  <andythenorth> Yexo: sorry, I am I need to apply settings gui to param 3 documented here:
21:35:56  <andythenorth> can't figure out what I need to do
21:36:11  <Yexo> 5 different bits?
21:37:10  <TruePikachu> When do airplanes in av8tors get introduced? as in earliest year
21:37:14  <andythenorth> 3 = 1+2 far as I know
21:37:32  <TruePikachu> andythenorth: 1+2=10 in base 3
21:37:46  <andythenorth> I can't really read the FIRS source for parameters to check...planetmaker wrote it
21:38:05  <andythenorth> it does quite a lot of bit shifts
21:38:11  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: over the last two weeks: 342 win32, 21 source, 12 dos (375 in total)
21:39:38  <Yexo> andythenorth: untested:
21:40:21  *** duckblaster [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:40:27  <Yexo> this can also generate value 5 (=prevent industries opening, allow primary closure) for example
21:40:30  <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: as far as i can see it, it's 3 different bits. the list shows the values
21:41:17  <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: that's how I coded it
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21:42:05  <andythenorth> Yexo: thanks
21:42:14  <andythenorth> testing it is....hard :o
21:42:40  <Yexo> why? try the parameter gui and see the new values in the grf window (the parametrs are still listed as integers there)
21:42:52  <andythenorth> testing it just got easier :)
21:43:20  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20269 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Use IsLocalCompany() everywhere, document the function and two company globals.
21:46:05  *** Alberth [] has left #openttd []
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21:48:54  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20270 /trunk/ (changelog.txt known-bugs.txt os/debian/changelog readme.txt): -Merge: release updates from 1.0
21:52:16  <andythenorth> Yexo: that works for the first two bits.
21:52:24  *** Lakie [~Lakie@] has joined #openttd
21:52:39  <andythenorth> and it will work for the other one when I fix my own mistake
21:53:24  <andythenorth> :)
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22:01:35  <andythenorth> bed time
22:02:04  *** Dreamxtreme [Dreamxtrem@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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22:16:46  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20271 /trunk/src/ai/ (11 files): -Doc: add doxygen comments to several items under src/ai/
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22:19:23  <Wolf01> 'njght
22:19:27  <Wolf01> *i
22:19:35  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
22:21:16  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:22:17  <Yexo> checking for iconv... no, consider installing GNU libiconv <- from the GNU libiconv configure script, why is it even checking?
22:22:56  <Rubidium> why would you want to install libiconv?
22:23:01  <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: because "we just took a generic make script"?
22:23:17  <Yexo> to be able to build doxygen 1.7.1
22:23:34  <Rubidium> does that seriously need libiconv
22:23:41  <Rubidium> stupid piece of shit
22:23:46  <Yexo> at least I haven't found a way around it yet
22:24:50  *** DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 0 1.0.3
22:25:04  <Yexo> lol
22:25:10  <Rubidium> fail bot
22:25:32  <TomyLobo> wee release
22:25:41  <FauxFaux> It's not out for another 35 minutes in the UK. /o\
22:25:50  <TomyLobo> eh?
22:25:52  *** Rubidium changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.0.3 | Website: * (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | English only
22:25:56  <TomyLobo> how is it timezone-dependent?
22:26:04  <Eddi|zuHause> because of the time shift :p
22:26:12  <TomyLobo> -_-
22:26:25  <FauxFaux> 2010-08-01 00:00:00 according to the blogsite.
22:26:43  <TomyLobo> if it is out nooow, it is out now no matter where you are, since now is always nooow
22:26:50  * Rubidium wonders whether TomyLobo could piss somewhere else
22:27:30  <TomyLobo> Rubidium "wee", like "wooo" or "yay"
22:27:30  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: the topic is not set by the release script? :)
22:27:37  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:28:05  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: nope
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22:34:54  <TomyLobo> Fix: Crash when spectator tried to open a vehicle list without selecting any company - hah i had that today after accidentally clicking a random button. wondered what had happened
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22:38:03  <perk111> release? cool
22:38:07  *** perk111 is now known as perk11
22:40:49  <Eddi|zuHause> TomyLobo: and you didn't report it.
22:41:03  <TomyLobo> like i said, random button
22:41:06  <TomyLobo> didnt know which one
22:41:44  <Yexo> sometimes the crash files can tell us that
22:41:54  <Yexo> so even in that case uploading crash.dmp/crash.log/crash/png helps
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22:46:41  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20272 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_group.hpp: -Doc: [NoAI] document return value of AIGroup::SetAutoReplace
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23:33:23  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20273 /trunk/src/hotkeys.cpp: -Fix [FS#3930]: '-' and '=' were not correctly read from hotkeys.cfg
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