Log for #openttd on 2nd August 2010:
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00:01:04  <win7frog> barebone is just about 6.8 mb. And the only thing by me in the barebone zip is an empty cfg at it's root to ensure the game sees the content_download folder
00:02:33  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... not enough Weeds...
00:04:53  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: there's (almost) always not enough of the good stuff and too much of the bad stuff
00:07:13  <win7frog> extracted, empty openttd.cfg created, the game is run, opengfx downloaded. After closing the game, the result is packaged as openttd_win32_barebone.exe (7z sfx)
00:08:44  <win7frog> then, cfg is emptied inside the archive
00:09:16  <Yexo> win7frog: again, if you're only going to use it yourself it's fine
00:09:29  <Yexo> if you're going to distribute that to other people you'll have to follow the licence
00:09:49  <Yexo> that means for example that you'll have to provide the source code for whatever binaries you distribute
00:09:50  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: you must say that. you're dutch! :p
00:10:55  <win7frog> well, link to website is in readme, which is kept in place
00:13:03  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: *that* stuff is always bad stuff
00:13:30  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i'll have to take your word on that.
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00:17:46  <Wolf01> uhm... 3 hours of coding stupid things, I missed the "bed train"...
00:20:00  <frosch123> night
00:20:06  <Eddi|zuHause> night frosch123
00:20:11  <Eddi|zuHause> ha!
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00:20:18  <Wolf01> lol
00:33:18  <Wolf01> 'night all
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02:50:18  <kieran491> hi
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03:32:19  <kieran491> How do servers implement scripts for their server?
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07:04:12  <Rubidium> kieran491: by directly patching OpenTTD's source code
07:04:38  <dihedral> morning
07:05:18  <dihedral> ping Yexo
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08:23:43  <Wolf01> hello
08:24:19  <Alberth> hello
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08:28:52  <Terkhen> good morning
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08:49:28  <kieran491> Rubidium: there wouldn't happen to be a a tutorial or somthing explaining what exact files are of intrested
08:50:20  <Alberth> for what?
08:51:15  <kieran491> to implement scripts for dedicated servers
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08:52:22  <Alberth> oh, that is very non-trivial
08:52:57  <kieran491> i know
08:53:25  <Alberth> industries, economy, ai files  would be a start, I think
08:53:37  <Alberth> assuming you want to use Squirrel as script language
08:53:54  <kieran491> squirrel?
08:54:06  <Alberth> ie, you don't think we have tutorials ready for every non-trivial task, do you?
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08:54:09  <kieran491> Oh i thought you had to actauly edit the C++ code
08:54:19  <Alberth> yes, the language used in the NoAI framework
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08:54:37  <Alberth> there are 2 stages in that
08:55:03  <Alberth> 1. make infra structure to connect a script to the game engine
08:55:18  <Alberth> 2. write an actual script for an  actual scenario
08:55:54  <Alberth> 1. needs C++ and some understanding of the script languyage (eg squirrel)   2 needs squirrel only
08:56:27  <Alberth> so yes, to do 1, you need to change c++ code
08:56:40  <dihedral> i am interested in coding a squirrel interface to the game
08:56:46  <peter1138> i get the impression that the authors of scripted servers don't want to share their work
08:56:57  <dihedral> just do not want to sit at it on my own...
08:57:01  <dihedral> do not / cannot ^^
08:57:09  <peter1138> cannot want?
08:59:19  <kieran491> Alberth: what infra structure btw?
08:59:20  <Alberth> dihedral: coding the actual interface is the easy part, you first need to design it, and change the game engine to allow such an interface
09:00:00  <Alberth> kieran491: you think if you just write a script, it will hook into the game by itself?
09:00:14  <Alberth> the game code is not prepared for that, it needs to be changed/extended
09:00:25  <Alberth> I call that 'infra structure'
09:00:37  <kieran491> mk
09:01:33  <Alberth> ie a new car is only useful if someone also puts down the roads, signs, traffic rules, etc, ie the road way infra structure
09:01:40  <kieran491> is there any code diagram  like a uml dia or somthing?
09:02:11  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20295 /extra/website/bananas/ [website] -Fix [BaNaNaS]: if a tar contained "special" characters it would cause so parts to mess up and it would subsequently fail to handle it properly
09:02:12  <Alberth> there is partial doxygen documentation
09:02:19  <kieran491> Alberth: i was hoping for somthing like a user types "!hi" and it echos back "hello"
09:02:35  <SpComb> peter1138: make the interface AGPL!
09:02:53  * peter1138 makes SpComb BSD
09:02:55  <Alberth> kieran491: you mean a chat (irc-like) interface?
09:03:09  <kieran491> well to start learning that would be nice
09:03:24  <kieran491> then start to dapple in more indepth areas later on
09:03:29  <Alberth> you can look into auto-pilot. No idea how that works
09:04:06  <Alberth> but that is a seperate program running independently of openttd
09:04:28  <kieran491> well i am better of to start learning the code base if i intend to do something more indepth later on
09:04:59  <Alberth> always a good idea
09:05:05  <Alberth> do you know c++ ?
09:05:12  <Alberth> otherwise start with that :)
09:05:25  <dihedral> 10:57 < peter1138> cannot want? <- feel comfortable doing it on my own ^^
09:05:40  <dihedral> Alberth: yes, i am quite aware of that, would not be the first time i look into it
09:06:00  <kieran491> I am learning it at current i am also learning java they seem simular with some major exceptions
09:06:08  <dihedral> autopilot simply wrapps stdin and stdout of openttd
09:06:12  <Alberth> kieran491: and you can also play with the NoAI frame, by writing an AI program, to get a feel for the type of script that you may want/get
09:06:35  <dihedral> and it only works if the server langauge is english :-P
09:06:59  <Alberth> dihedral: nicely robust program :p
09:07:12  <dihedral> :-P
09:07:28  <dihedral> i only took over from Brianetta :-P
09:08:23  <kieran491> if i start to mess around with openTTD code will other clients still be able to join?
09:08:31  <SpComb> depends on what you mess around with
09:08:33  <kieran491> somthing like changine game speed
09:08:38  <dihedral> kieran491: depends on what you mess with ^^
09:08:58  <SpComb> there are some things you can change on the server without affecting the clients
09:09:03  <dihedral> if you mess with core stuff, the clients will need the same changes as you have on the server
09:09:06  <SpComb> but anything that changes the gameplay itself is a no-no
09:09:16  <kieran491> mk
09:09:18  <SpComb> i.e. anything that affects the world state directly
09:09:38  <kieran491> mk so the games speed?
09:09:49  <dihedral> guess!
09:09:56  <kieran491> well i would think that be ok
09:09:58  <dihedral> ...nnnnnoooooo!
09:10:14  <kieran491> really i have been on servers that are running at a greater speed
09:10:32  <dihedral> i do kind of doubt that!
09:10:37  <Alberth> kieran491: every machine runs the same program doing the exact same actions. If one of them does something different, you have a desync.
09:10:55  <kieran491> Alberth: see that what i thought would happen
09:11:45  <dihedral> Alberth: i did once think (and hope) of working on such an interface with Yexo
09:11:46  <kieran491> Alberth: but wouldn't it come down to the machines just need to talk each other in the same mannor?
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09:11:50  <Alberth> if you also change the clients, you have fewer problems
09:11:57  <dihedral> he did show enough interest, however not enough time on his hands
09:12:10  <kieran491> Alberth: i would like anyone to be able to still join
09:12:44  <Alberth> kieran491: each machine computes the decisions in the game locally, and they must match, otherwise: desync
09:13:00  <Alberth> ie there is no central machine that decides what is done
09:13:29  <dihedral> well :-P
09:13:42  <dihedral> there is a central machine that distributes actions :-D
09:13:52  <dihedral> but that's about it
09:14:11  <Alberth> yeah, correct.  but the whole game state is not copied to the clients
09:14:29  <dihedral> hehe - bandwidth
09:14:31  <Alberth> that would mean you need to download the whole map on each tick
09:14:45  <dihedral> use a 'diff' format :-D
09:14:58  * dihedral chuckles
09:14:59  <kieran491> that would be proccessor intensive
09:15:02  <Alberth> and many people do not have a big enough network connection for that :)
09:16:03  <Alberth> kieran491: even if you don't care about CPUs, you will have a very hard time getting the diff small enough to copy it over the network
09:16:20  <Rubidium> I see no reason to let the game run at higher speed causes a desync; ofcourse, higher speed means less "sleeping" between ticks and not "more ticks a day"
09:18:22  <kieran491> well how does the fast forward button work?
09:18:41  <Alberth> sleep = 0
09:19:45  <kieran491> what file can i see that?
09:20:00  <dihedral> grep for 'sleep'
09:20:05  <Rubidium> fun fact: the server can run fast forward much faster than the client. *If* the map is relatively empty it can do 4 days relatively quickly.
09:20:27  <kieran491> well is there any way of telling the other clients machines to set sleep to 0?
09:20:33  <Rubidium> now those 4 days are the maximum "lag" of a client, which means that with fast forward most clients might not even make it
09:20:51  <Rubidium> kieran491: the clients will automatically go into sleep=0 mode if they're running behind the server
09:21:44  <kieran491> but in a single player game there is a noticeable difference in speed when you activate the fast forward button
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09:22:47  <kieran491> and if a server is clients are already running sleep to 0 then why isn't their a noticeable speed difference?
09:23:02  <Rubidium> they aren't!
09:23:20  <Rubidium> but *if* the client is running behind the server it will go to sleep=0 mode to catch up
09:23:36  <Rubidium> actually this happens when you're joining as well
09:23:48  <Rubidium> (in case the game isn't paused on join)
09:24:51  <kieran491> so if you set sleep to 0 then clients will as well?
09:25:06  <Rubidium> yes
09:25:28  <Rubidium> but DO not blame us for the server kicking clients because they couldn't keep up with the server
09:26:19  <Rubidium> because that is what is going to happen and the reason why we never actually implemented that "feature"
09:26:22  <kieran491> So whats sleep normaly set to then?
09:26:45  <Rubidium> 30ms - time wasted on processing the tick
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09:30:36  <dihedral> hehe
09:36:09  <Rubidium> zodttd: what is your take on Apple's app store violating GPL ( )?
09:37:07  <Rubidium> it would mean that OpenTTD has to be taken out of their app store once again, but now purely due to Apple's terms and not because you're not complying with it
09:38:35  <peter1138> as if he cares
09:40:47  <Rubidium> doesn't really matter; this is "just" attempt 3 or so to get something out of him. So before I email Apple I'll write a nice long post about it mentioning that I did try to contact (and providing sources of that action). Then at least he can't claim we didn't try to contact him, like last time he claimed that he was on IRC and we didn't contact him there
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09:42:22  <peter1138> what's the conflict now? or is that it? heh
09:42:45  <Rubidium> GPLv2: You may not impose any further restrictions on the recipients' exercise of the rights granted herein.
09:42:58  <Rubidium> Apple: You acknowledge that Products contain security technology that limits your usage of Products to the following applicable Usage Rules, and, whether or not Products are limited by security technology, you agree to use Products in compliance with the applicable Usage Rules.
09:43:26  <Rubidium> Apple: The Usage Rules shall govern your rights with respect to the Products, in addition to any other terms or rules that may have been established between you and another party.
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09:43:45  <Rubidium> so basically it's Apple that's limiting freedom which is explicitly not allowed by GPLv2
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09:47:43  <peter1138> zodttd, zodttd, zodttd
09:47:49  <peter1138> zodttd doesn't care
09:47:56  <peter1138> zodttd doesn't even react
09:48:06  <peter1138> zodttd: not even with lots of highlighting
09:50:10  <kieran491> Will openttd every have a filter system for the server list?
09:50:38  <Alberth> for  lim time -> infinity, yes
09:51:14  <kieran491> That'll be nice
09:51:15  <Alberth> kieran491: nobody has a set of plans of what will be made and what not.
09:51:29  <kieran491> Ohh
09:51:56  <Alberth> kieran491: nobody is working on it afaik, but as there is no general overview of who is doing what, I may be wrong
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09:52:16  <Alberth> kieran491: there is however an easy wat to reduce the waiting, namely write a patch
09:52:22  <Alberth> *way
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09:53:01  <Alberth> kieran491: did'nt you want to understand the code base?  (although UI code may not be the most useful part of scripting)
09:54:01  <kieran491> Properly out of my depth
09:54:37  <Alberth> It is quite easy in fact
09:54:56  * win7frog only wants to know what's the narrowest font supported by OTTD
09:55:12  <Alberth> way easier than making a whole scripting interface
09:55:19  <Alberth> win7frog: 0 pixels
09:55:43  <win7frog> not the font size, I mean font typeface.
09:56:12  <Rubidium> whatever typefaces are 0 pixels wide
09:56:17  <win7frog> is there one narrower than Arial Narrow?
09:56:38  <win7frog> not all typefaces are supported by OTTD
09:57:29  <Rubidium> as if there are much typefaces that are not supported by freetype
09:57:42  <Rubidium> but yes, there might be ancient typefaces that aren't supported by freetype
09:58:10  <Rubidium> regardless given the amount of typefaces there are, there's a pretty big chance there's one that is narrower than the one you just mentioned
09:58:51  <Alberth> win7frog: OpenTTD simply uses the information provided by the font, so if you can find a smaller one, there is a smaller one.
09:58:55  <Rubidium> even so... questions about which font is smaller can probably be better answered by the freetype developers; we just support anything freetype supports
09:58:57  <win7frog> How do I see if a tf is freetype or not? (if I'm checking via notepad)
09:59:14  <Rubidium> as I said, ask the freetype people
10:02:02  <peter1138> meh, why is my non-blocking socket blocking?
10:02:41  <Rubidium> UDP?
10:03:10  <peter1138> tcp
10:04:01  <Rubidium> then I wouldn't know
10:05:51  <peter1138> :(
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10:06:29  <Rubidium> oh, the UDP issue only happens with PSP/PS3
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10:16:46  <peter1138> hmm, the recv() finally finished with errno connection timed out
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10:21:27  <win7frog> okay, can't seem to find what freetype font is the best, fonts folder is not any good for comparing fonts
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10:31:02  <win7frog> damn it
10:31:12  <win7frog> CityBlueprint is not a unicode font
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10:35:47  <win7frog> ok, so what freetype unicode font typeface is the narrowest?
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10:44:17  <Rubidium> win7frog: hopefully you understand it when I type loudly and slowly: W E   D O   N O T   K N O W   T H A T .   A S K   T H E   P E O P L E   A T   F R E E T Y P E ! ! !
10:45:18  <peter1138> they won't know either :D
10:45:36  <peter1138> ask a font geek who maintains a font collection, heh
10:46:13  <ccfreak2k> A font snob.
10:47:15  <Alberth> alternatively, write a program that computes that information from your fonts
10:47:33  <Rubidium> Alberth: but that doesn't answer his question
10:47:47  <Alberth> hmm, true
10:47:53  <Rubidium> he needs to account for all fonts, not just local fonts
10:48:11  <Alberth> ok, first collect all fonts that exist in the whole world
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11:12:48  <dragonworm> Found one font - called "droid"
11:13:00  * dihedral just signed an (timly) unlimited contract
11:13:06  <dihedral> yumm?
11:15:52  <Zuu> contract for what?
11:15:55  <peter1138> timly?
11:16:30  <SpComb> timely?
11:16:40  <SpComb> in the manner of time?
11:18:05  <Rubidium> something with the Italian mobile phone company?
11:19:46  <dragonworm> oh, no! droid is TOO narrow. I need something like 2 pixels narrower than Arial Narrow
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11:20:55  <Rubidium> please do not use this channel as a "twitter" on your font search, it's starting to get really annoying
11:23:19  <dragonworm> well, font search for ottd.
11:24:32  <dragonworm> why are most game rooms red for me?
11:25:32  <Rubidium> because $reason that is shown to you
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11:30:26  <dragonworm> is it lack of ngrf or game version?
11:30:47  <Yexo> dragonworm: please start reading (and acting to) the responses given to you
11:30:47  <peter1138> why should we guess when the program tells you?
11:31:37  *** mode/#openttd [+q *!~yuraconst@*] by Rubidium
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11:32:19  <Rubidium> so will he change his username again?
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11:39:08  <dihedral> 13:15 < Zuu> contract for what? <- employment :-)
11:40:21  <Zuu> That sounds like a good contract then :-)
11:41:10  <dihedral> aye, and well payed, and a lot of holidays (40 in total)
11:41:18  <__ln__> employment sounds like it may involve work
11:41:20  <dihedral> + bank holidays
11:41:37  <dihedral> __ln__: something totally unfamiliar to you, ey?
11:41:52  <__ln__> not at all
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11:55:43  <peter1138> well paid too?
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12:08:01  * fjb has work for the rest of his live but does not get payed at all.
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12:11:02  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20296 /trunk/src/ (fontcache.h strings.cpp): -Fix: Fallback font selection due to missing glyphs did not work as intended.
12:11:44  <Alberth> fjb: the trouble is that you continue to collect new work during your life time
12:13:26  * fjb also collects promises to get payed.
12:14:49  <Alberth> I collect money instead :p
12:15:05  <Alberth> however the collection does not seem to be growing
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12:15:30  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
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12:22:50  <DarkNemesis> glx, how do you get that hash?
12:23:11  <glx> what?
12:24:27  <ccfreak2k> Duuuude
12:24:31  <ccfreak2k> pass the hash, maaaan.
12:25:19  <Alberth> DarkNemesis: it's IP6
12:25:27  <Ammler> v
12:25:43  <DarkNemesis> sounds painful - if i didn't know better
12:26:14  <DarkNemesis> Alberth, on a serious note how to use that? mind if i /msg?
12:26:24  <glx> it's just my IP
12:26:30  <glx> no more no less
12:26:53  <DarkNemesis> but.... i'm confused
12:27:06  <Ammler> yes, questions about ipv6 go to #glx :-)
12:27:55  <Alberth> DarkNemesis: your ISP needs to supply such addresses, just as it does now with IP4, then your machine needs to talk IP6, and then in theory it should work. That is all I know
12:29:17  <Alberth> DarkNemesis: so talk to your ISP, they should know about it
12:29:28  * glx slaps Ammler for [14:28:45] DarkNemesis [] vous invite sur le salon #glx (jonctionauto)
12:29:29  <Alberth> if not, find another ISP :)
12:29:42  <Ammler> :-D
12:30:27  <glx> there are also 6to4 tunnels
12:30:51  <glx> DarkNemesis: just ask your questions here :)
12:31:01  <DarkNemesis> oh ok
12:31:46  <DarkNemesis> what is/are the advantages of the hash [***snigger***]  compaired to
12:31:57  <DarkNemesis> "nomal hostmarks"
12:32:03  <glx> it's not a hash, it's an IP
12:32:06  <DarkNemesis> or "normal" ip addresses
12:32:17  <DarkNemesis> it looks like a hash
12:32:27  <Ammler> DarkNemesis: maybe you should start with wikipedia article about ipv6
12:32:29  <glx> it's how an IPv6 is written
12:33:16  <Rubidium> hashes generally don't have colons
12:34:06  <DarkNemesis> that ip6 doesn look the right one but looks funny and siiilly @D
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12:34:33  <Ammler> v
12:34:49  <glx> IPv6 != IP6
12:36:27  <Alberth> which demonstrates how much I know of the subject :p
12:37:21  <Forked> it's great.. now we can get vanity IPs.. like 2001::dead:beef:cafe:babe :\
12:37:37  <glx> hehe
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13:03:59  <ccfreak2k> 0xFACE8D
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13:20:14  <SpComb> has IPv6 address 2620:0:1cfe:face:b00c::3
13:24:03  <Rubidium> oh, facebook is part of the Limerick College of Further Education?
13:25:21  <SpComb> return -ENOSENSE;
13:26:21  <glx> 1cfe
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14:44:23  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20297 /trunk/src/table/engines.h: -Doc: Explain the default tractive effort value used by standard road vehicles.
14:48:25  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20298 /trunk/src/roadveh.h: -Fix: GetInitialMaxSpeed did not return the correct value for road vehicles.
14:49:04  <zodttd> peter1138: Just got your highlights. I was sleeping. :D
14:49:38  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20299 /trunk/src/ (ground_vehicle.cpp ground_vehicle.hpp roadveh.h train.h): -Add: Make trains and road vehicles use a different area value to calculate air drag.
14:50:38  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20300 /trunk/src/ (engine_type.h table/engines.h): -Add: Air drag field to the rail engine information.
14:51:48  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20301 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Add: [NewGRF] Read air drag property from Action 0 for trains.
14:52:29  <peter1138> and Rubidium's? :D
14:52:48  <dihedral> hehe
14:52:56  <dihedral> Terkhen: that looks interesting... :-)
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14:53:03  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20302 /trunk/src/ (ground_vehicle.hpp roadveh.h train.h): -Add: Method for getting the air drag of a ground vehicle.
14:54:42  <dihedral> "commit spree"
14:54:59  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20303 /trunk/src/ (ground_vehicle.cpp table/engines.h): -Feature: [NewGRF] Air drag property support for trains and road vehicles. Air drag for vehicles with air drag not set or set to zero will use a default value depending on their max speed.
14:55:25  <dihedral> u-u-u-ultra-"mit"
14:56:53  <Terkhen> :)
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15:13:13  <Wolf01> ok, I know, but you don't want too much realism if not to improve the game, but don't you think this is too much?
15:14:58  <Terkhen> Wolf01: some vehicles need a way to change their air drag value to be able to reach their top speed; for example the hover bus
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15:15:45  <Terkhen> I don't care that much about realism, it's just for giving more options
15:16:23  <Wolf01> does a "hover bus" have priority to "basetunnels" or such? both are realistic... ok, hover bus not so much, but basetunnels might give a boost of new possibilites
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15:17:36  <Terkhen> fixes (even if in this case they add a feature too) have always more priority than new features
15:17:59  <Wolf01> is this a fix?
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15:18:57  <Terkhen> allowing to define a really fast vehicle but not allowing it to reach such speed is a problem, so yes
15:19:13  <Wolf01> if it's so, the next newgrf fix might be "fine control of aircraft flaps to allow ekranoplanes" running under bridges
15:19:23  <Terkhen> besides, the problem was present even in standard road vehicles
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15:20:56  <Terkhen> Wolf01: grab yesterday's nightly, build a long road and put a MkII superbus on it
15:21:02  <Terkhen> it won't be able to reach its top speed
15:21:34  <Terkhen> I don't know why this is related to aircraft flaps
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15:24:24  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20304 /extra/ottd_grf/ (6 files in 2 dirs): [OTTD_GRF] -Change: add action 14 with the palette and always build a DOS paletted NewGRF
15:24:40  <Alberth> it is an example of another less interesting fix than basetunnels, I think
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15:29:44  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20305 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs):
15:29:44  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Change: reduce OpenTTD's install size by roughly 460 KiB by only providing the
15:29:44  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: "extra" base graphics in one palette and doing the conversion upon loading; the
15:29:44  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: conversion has existed for a while, but now the NewGRF can tell its palette
15:29:44  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: using Action 14 thus it can enable the conversion for only that NewGRF.
15:30:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20306 /trunk/bin/data/ (openttdd.grf openttdw.grf): -Cleanup (r20305): actually delete the old base NewGRF
15:34:22  <Eddi|zuHause> so all grfs are now internally converted to the DOS palette?
15:34:53  <frosch123> no
15:35:16  <Rubidium> either the DOS or the Windows palette, depending on your "selected" palette
15:35:42  <Rubidium> which you select by either selecting a base graphics set (and use that palette) or by the command line palette parameter
15:37:46  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... that sounds more complicated than it should be, but i guess it's still necessary to set a default for old newgrfs...
15:38:06  <Rubidium> yep
15:38:25  <frosch123> it's also to do no conversion for the majority of sprites
15:38:33  <Eddi|zuHause> but that default needs only be for loading newgrfs, it could still always use the DOS palette internally
15:38:49  <Eddi|zuHause> is conversion that expensive?
15:39:11  <frosch123> hmm, maybe not
15:39:23  <Rubidium> probably not; it's only done upon sprite loading
15:39:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i was assuming it's just a table lookup on loading the sprite (or reloading in case of sprite cache overflow)
15:39:45  <Rubidium> reloading is loading, so :)
15:40:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean: in rare cases it's done more than once
15:40:52  <Rubidium> but yes... in theory we could just "convert" everything to the DOS palette upon loading
15:43:40  * Rubidium wonders how long it'll take before the DOS palette becomes the primary palette
15:44:50  <Eddi|zuHause> does opengfx use dos?
15:45:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i presume not...
15:46:25  <Rubidium> nope
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16:05:02  <BCMM> how big is a tile supposed to be (i'm trying to work out how long it ought to take to cross the map by plane)?
16:05:11  <BCMM> i've seen it on the wiki but i can't find it now
16:05:18  <Rubidium> game mechanics
16:05:53  <BCMM> thanks
16:07:42  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20307 /trunk/src/newgrf_config.cpp: -Fix (r20305): the palette for baseset extra grfs was never set so it defaulted to dos
16:10:29  <BCMM> and are diagonals realistic, i.e. take sqrt(2) times as long to traverse?
16:15:06  <TomyLobo> measure it. my bet would be manhattan length
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16:17:06  <TomyLobo> BCMM ok, 1.4 fits
16:18:36  <TomyLobo> BCMM a 7 (or maybe 6.5) square diagonal takes as long as a 10 square straight
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16:18:53  <TomyLobo> for trains
16:19:21  <TomyLobo> the 10 square straight takes slightly longer
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16:38:39  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20308 /trunk/ ( projects/determineversion.vbs): -Change: don't only look at only the src directory for the revision, but at the parent of the src directory.
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16:48:46  <snorre> 1.0.3 + ecs town..  new game with sub-arctic climate = instant crash to desktop
16:49:06  <glx> OS ?
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16:50:09  <snorre> glx: debian testing amd64
16:50:17  <Yexo> confirmed :(
16:50:31  <Yexo> NOT_REACHED() in newgrf_commons.cpp:329
16:51:11  <glx> seems familiar
16:51:35  <tneo> when creating a scenario can the snowline be changed ?
16:51:43  <tneo> without restarting the map?
16:53:13  <Rubidium> hmm, MP_VOID fix not backported?
16:53:19  <Yexo> looks like it
16:53:42  <Yexo> indeed, that's the problem
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16:56:15  <Rubidium> looks like 2 weeks of people doing regression tests just doesn't cut it
16:56:21  <Rubidium> or people just don't report issues anymore
16:56:52  <Rubidium> it's probably the latter: oh, it crashed that soon... they must know it so I won't have to report it
16:59:16  <Rubidium> snorre: as work around you might disable freeform edges
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17:02:56  <frosch123> hmm, NOT_REACHED is not disabled in stable
17:11:11  <snorre> Rubidium: no, still crashing
17:12:06  <Rubidium> then it's looking further than I expect it to look
17:13:46  <frosch123> maybe play without the fishing grounds
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17:17:08  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20309 /trunk/ ( projects/determineversion.vbs): -Fix [FS#3953]: Mercurial (trunk) revision detection fails when different heads are used
17:18:06  <Rubidium> snorre: in any case, the fix is on the list for 1.0.4
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17:20:37  <snorre> Rubidium: ok :) just posted my log:
17:23:11  <frosch123> snorre: of course you can also play the nightly :)
17:26:09  <snorre> I'm running a server.. I'll just switsh to toyland for a while :P
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17:40:24  <Ammler> r20305 is also a interesting commit
17:42:08  <Ammler> would it help, if we provide a dos opengfx?
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17:42:50  <Pifta> hello
17:42:55  <Ammler> I guess, ti would glitch all non Action14 newgrfs
17:43:33  <Rubidium> Ammler: at the moment yes
17:45:05  <Rubidium> although I hope that within a year or so most NewGRFs use Action14
17:45:40  <Ammler> or simply assume non Action14 newgrfs as windows paletted?
17:45:53  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20310 /trunk/src/lang/ (14 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:45:53  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:53  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: basque - 8 changes by Thadah
17:45:53  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belarusian - 354 changes by KorneySan, Wowanxm
17:45:53  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 5 changes by pda1573
17:45:54  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 1 changes by pda1573
17:45:54  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: chuvash - 17 changes by mefisteron
17:46:04  <Ammler> (still with the possiblitly to change the palette like now)
17:47:52  <Ammler> that would also work better with those, which use dos original set but like to use bananas newgrfs
17:49:52  <Rubidium> then they should just set the "Windows" palette
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17:50:09  <Ammler> but they need to do that for every newgrf
17:50:28  <Rubidium> although the "default" of Windows will get wrong once NewGRFs with action14 become (mostly) DOS NewGRFs
17:50:46  <Rubidium> Ammler: no just start OpenTTD with -i 1
17:50:52  <Ammler> ah ok
17:51:07  <Ammler> it doesn't force that for the baseset?
17:51:22  <Rubidium> nope, that defines a palette for itself
17:53:59  <Ammler> updating the palette templates with dos :-)
18:11:40  <Zuu> snorre: Toyland highfive :-)
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18:15:13  <roboboy> Where can I get the GRF containing the OpenTTD waypoints for TTDPatch?
18:16:15  <Rubidium> svn/extra/ottd_grf, but you'll have to get the sprites from them and code them as waypoints yourself
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18:24:22  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20311 /trunk/src/saveload/ (5 files): -Codechange: don't reserve extra space in the savegame that is never used
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18:35:00  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r20312 /trunk/src/road_map.h: -Doc: Add missing doxygen comments to road map accessors.
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18:37:42  <flabbergaster> Hmm how come when i start a game and mess a bit with land etc near a town the town get's pissed off and wont let me then make a station
18:37:42  <flabbergaster> :/
18:37:50  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20313 /trunk/ -Fix (r20309): Mercurial version detection picked up a bit more than it should've picked up.
18:38:10  <flabbergaster> haven't made anything and already they hate me
18:38:11  <flabbergaster> lol
18:38:19  <Rubidium> because you're chopping down their trees
18:38:24  <Rubidium> or houses
18:38:38  <flabbergaster> even if i just flatten land not near it
18:38:40  <flabbergaster> i dunno
18:38:49  <flabbergaster> lol
18:38:50  <Yexo> by flattening land you remove the trees on it
18:39:07  <Yexo> see
18:39:12  <flabbergaster> yeah
18:39:24  <flabbergaster> but the land is not how id like it to be
18:39:31  <flabbergaster> for my rail station
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18:40:39  <flabbergaster> also 1950 is the best year to start right?
18:40:40  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r20314 /trunk/src/road_map.h: -Fix (r20312): Too many parameters, missed one.
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18:41:54  <Alberth> depends on the vehicle set you use, I think.
18:41:58  <flabbergaster> ah
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18:42:12  <flabbergaster> ive been just doing 64x64 couple towns and no businesses at the start
18:42:19  <Alberth> for default openttd without newgrfs, 1950 is the default starting year
18:42:24  <flabbergaster> oh and no competitors because they always screw up how i want it to look
18:42:53  <Alberth> I always play without competitors
18:43:02  <flabbergaster> i used to play simcity so im used to being insane about how the city looks
18:43:21  <flabbergaster> but as theres no real simcity 5 ive found stuff like this game
18:43:42  <Alberth> OpenTTD is more about the transport between cities :)
18:43:46  <flabbergaster> yeah
18:44:48  <Zuu> Or writing patches/AIs/GRFs etc. :-p
18:47:15  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r20315 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Replace magic numbers by named constants.
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18:56:29  <flabbergaster> oh didnt know just planting a bunch of trees back down would fix the raiting back
18:56:30  <flabbergaster> lol
18:56:33  <flabbergaster> ty
18:56:35  <flabbergaster> gtg
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18:58:52  <Terkhen> huh?
18:59:15  *** Cybertinus [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:59:37  <Terkhen> the power of abbreviations
19:00:32  <Alberth> so brief, and still needing 3 lines :)
19:00:49  *** shmore [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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19:02:01  <Terkhen> for a second I thought he was smashing his keyboard
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19:33:19  <glx> towns are trees' fans
19:33:37  <glx> and I forgot to scroll again
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19:51:17  <andythenorth> evening
19:52:43  <Terkhen> hi andythenorth
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20:12:24  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20316 /trunk/src/ (unmovable.h unmovable_cmd.cpp): -Document: some members/structs and functions and rename some slightly to better catch their meaning
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20:19:23  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20317 /trunk/src/ (company_cmd.cpp economy.cpp engine.cpp): -Codechange: Move variable declaration to their first use.
20:32:53  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20318 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Doc: Doxygen additions.
20:37:53  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20319 /trunk/src/ (company_base.h economy.cpp): -Codechange: Align comments, add indent to a function call.
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20:47:40  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20320 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Doc: Small Doxygen and normal comment fixes, and an missed addition.
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20:57:47  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20321 /trunk/src/ (unmovable.h unmovable_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: rename GetUnmovableSpec to UnmovableSpec::Get and add+use a ::GetByTile
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21:15:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20322 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Move Expand town code to a command.
21:15:45  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20323 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp command_type.h town_cmd.cpp town_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Move Delete town code to a command.
21:16:24  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20324 /trunk/src/station_base.h: -Doc: add doxygen comments to the Airport struct belonging to a station
21:20:35  <Eddi|zuHause> "your personal directory is too large, you use 5,9GB. please try to get below 1GB"
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21:25:29  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20325 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Fix (r20322): surround variable declarations in a switch-block with {}
21:30:01  <TomyLobo> good plan
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21:31:41  <Wolf01> 'night
21:32:00  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
21:32:25  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i have the bad feeling this disk is really failing
21:33:34  <TomyLobo> how long do you leave it on daily?
21:33:42  <Eddi|zuHause> 24h
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21:33:57  <TomyLobo> unless it's a server disk, that is to be expected :)
21:34:11  <Eddi|zuHause> disk is like 6 years old, not entirely sure
21:34:23  <TomyLobo> seen newer disks fail
21:34:28  *** Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-87-102-115-138.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:34:44  <Eddi|zuHause> but smart says everything is ok
21:35:15  <TomyLobo> hdds are cheap, get some kind of disk imaging software and you have the whole matter resolved within hours
21:35:44  <TomyLobo> although if it's a logical problem, that wont help at all ^^
21:36:11  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20326 /trunk/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: move UnmovableType to its own file
21:36:36  <Hirundo> preparing for newobjects?
21:37:19  <TomyLobo> how did you move it?
21:37:30  <TomyLobo> with IrresistableForceType?
21:38:17  <__ln__> @seen Gonozal_VIII
21:38:17  <DorpsGek> __ln__: I have not seen Gonozal_VIII.
21:38:22  <Rubidium> nah, just cleaning up a mess
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21:57:27  <Eddi|zuHause> there's nothing serious on there
21:57:49  <Eddi|zuHause> my current TV recordings, my current "TV recordings" and my youtube collection...
21:58:14  <Eddi|zuHause> and the backup of my system on the lower partition
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22:03:40  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20327 /trunk/src/unmovable_cmd.cpp: -Change: don't let building e.g. road remove light houses and transmitters in the scenario editor
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22:10:17  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20328 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: unify the unmovable related commands and make building lighthouses/transmitters actually happen via a command
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22:18:03  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... there's a big black furry thing in my bed...
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22:27:22  <Terkhen> good night
22:27:45  <Rubidium> night Terkhen
22:27:58  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20329 /trunk/src/table/airport_defaults.h: -Codechange: align the data of the original airports so it's better readable
22:28:16  <Yexo> night Terkhen
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23:06:07  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20330 /trunk/src/unmovable_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: unify the removal of unmovables a bit
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23:09:51  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20331 /trunk/src/ (airport.h newgrf_airport.cpp newgrf_airport.h): -Doc: some more airport-related code
23:12:55  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20332 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_spritegroup.cpp newgrf_spritegroup.h): -Add: [NewGRF] AdvVarAct2 operators for SHL, SHR and SAR.
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23:36:01  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20333 /trunk/src/newgrf_spritegroup.cpp: -Fix (r20332): Mask second operand to 5 bits to avoid differences between platforms.
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