Log for #openttd on 5th August 2010:
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00:49:27  <ntx> which one would make more sense, selecting industries in the industry directory list by industry type or by the type of cargo(es) it produces?
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01:07:53  <Eddi|zuHause> both
01:08:55  <Eddi|zuHause> especially i occationally want to filter that either produce or accept a cargo, to plan appropriate routes
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01:34:35  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... this newobjects thing seems to be kicking off quite well...
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06:36:17  <Terkhen> good morning
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06:39:36  <Rubidium> gooooooood morning Terkhen :)
06:41:19  <Rubidium> ooh... and an early frosch123. Good morning to you as well
06:41:45  <andythenorth> morning
06:41:49  <andythenorth> quak etc
06:41:55  <andythenorth> this is not early
06:41:56  <frosch123> the early frog catches the fly
06:42:08  <frosch123> morning rubidium, terkhen and andy :)
06:46:03  <Rubidium> andythenorth: it's his second earliest join in over 400 joins. That qualifies as "early" to me!
06:46:24  * Terkhen would rather be sleeping a few more hours than studying
06:46:47  <andythenorth> there are two classes of people in the world when it comes to waking time: those with babies and those without
06:47:10  * andythenorth thinks of a third class: students with essay deadlines
06:48:21  <Rubidium> andythenorth: do they have waking (up) times?
06:48:47  <andythenorth> dunno, it seems a long time ago for me :P
06:49:12  <Terkhen> only if they naively think that waking up early will help on getting more done
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07:09:01  <De_Ghosty> damn frogs
07:09:05  <De_Ghosty> catch more bugs
07:09:12  <De_Ghosty> there is still so much flies
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07:19:07  <trebuchet> Mmmmm, what are the system requirements for OpenTTD? I'm wondering if it would run on a Lemote Yeelong - a 900mhz MIPS processor with basic 2D X11 acceleration.
07:19:57  <Rubidium> it is known to run on a Nintendo DS
07:20:50  <trebuchet> What about those '32bbp' graphics? I just saw a screenshot an hour ago, are those really just sprites using SDL?
07:20:54  <trebuchet> bpp*
07:21:33  <Rubidium> most likely, assuming they're OpenTTD screenshots
07:23:46  <trebuchet> Thank you for the answer Rubidium :-)
07:23:47  <trebuchet> nn
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08:09:50  <dihedral> good morning
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08:45:31  <fjb> Moin.
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09:38:15  <ntx> is strings.h automatically generated from somewhere else?
09:38:39  <ntx> mainly I'm interested in how adding new StringID's works
09:39:24  <yorick> it's generated from the language files
09:39:43  <yorick> (just add a new string in the language files (english.txt)) and it'll appear in strings.h I think
09:40:00  <ntx> ah great, thanks
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09:48:19  <dihedral> 20:09 < frosch123> andythenorth: dihedral tries different strategies to show differences between him and petert <- i refuse to even slightly find this comparison amusing ^^
09:54:01  * frosch123 imagines dihedral hopping mad for 15.5 hours
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09:57:47  * yorick could be PeterT
09:58:39  <frosch123> that is out of question
09:59:23  <frosch123> however, yorick, stop highlighting petert :p
09:59:31  <yorick> if anyone here is PeterT it would be me
10:00:25  <yorick> I need him to compile something for me and he's not doing it "because he's on vacation"
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10:13:16  <ntx> damnit, where are the IndustryType enumerations, I want to know which is which
10:14:37  <frosch123> iirc in table/build_industry.h or so
10:14:52  <frosch123> but once you have newgrfs they are quite pointless
10:15:00  <Terkhen> using grep is very useful to find definitions
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11:57:17  <ntx> behold!
11:58:19  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20364 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_airport.cpp newgrf_spritegroup.h): -Codechange: add infrastructure for airport callbacks
11:58:59  <ntx> only downside is that those text colours aren't visible for some background colours
11:59:21  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20365 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: allow multiple layouts for one airport statemachine, store the layout number
11:59:41  <dihedral> \o/
11:59:45  <dihedral> looks interesting ^^
12:00:06  <dihedral> ntx: what do you do with newgrf industries?
12:00:20  <dihedral> e.g. ecs can load a huge amount of different indus
12:00:22  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20366 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: store the rotation of the airport layout in the station struct and use it to rotate hangar tiles
12:00:55  <Eddi|zuHause> ntx: so what about the use case i told earlier, showing e.g. all industries that produce or accept coal -> coal mines and power stations.
12:01:51  <ntx> dihedral: how does the station lists cargo buttons behave with them?
12:02:37  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20367 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: -Codechange; don't use a pointer to access the AirportMovingData of the current position
12:02:48  <Eddi|zuHause> ntx: basically newgrfs override the values in the IndustryTypes structs
12:03:07  <ntx> Eddi|zuHause: idk, I've never used the industry list to search for accepting industries
12:03:18  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20368 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp airport.cpp airport.h): -Codechange: automatically rotate all nodes for airport movement if the airport is rotated
12:03:29  <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. name, abbreviation, map colour, ...
12:03:47  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20369 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: preview sprites for airports
12:03:49  <Eddi|zuHause> same thing for cargos
12:04:04  <ntx> well, I did add the abbreviation field to the IndustryType struct
12:04:12  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20370 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp table/airport_defaults.h table/sprites.h): -Add: [NewGRF] new action 5 block to add airport preview sprites
12:04:23  <ntx> don't know how that would affect them
12:04:45  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20371 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_airport.cpp newgrf_airport.h): -Codechange: add general function to call text callbacks for airports
12:04:56  <Eddi|zuHause> ntx: well, you have to expose that property to the newgrf
12:05:13  <Eddi|zuHause> ntx: and then have to have a sane fallback if the newgrf doesn't define it
12:05:27  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20372 /trunk/src/ (airport_gui.cpp newgrf_callbacks.h): -Feature; [NewGRF] callback 0x155 to display extra information about an airport in the build gui
12:06:08  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20373 /trunk/src/ (airport_gui.cpp newgrf_callbacks.h): -Feature: [NewGRF] callback 0x156 to use another name for airport layouts than the default "Layout x"
12:06:27  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20374 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_airport.cpp saveload/station_sl.cpp station_base.h): -Codechange: add persistant storage for airports
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12:07:19  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20375 /trunk/src/ (saveload/afterload.cpp station_cmd.cpp station_map.h): -Codechange: make sure the watertype for existing airport tiles is set to invalid
12:09:13  <ntx> Eddi|zuHause: would IndustriesChangeInfo() be the function of interest?
12:09:20  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20376 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Feature [FS#3093]: add setting for none/original/more smoke (SirkoZ)
12:09:22  <ntx> when dealing with newgrfs
12:09:40  <Eddi|zuHause> ntx: i haven't digged into it
12:10:36  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20377 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Feature: [NewGRF] prop 0x0A tile layout for airports
12:10:38  <Eddi|zuHause> ntx: probably newgrf_properties.h is the place i would start
12:11:21  <dihedral> SirkoZ more smoke patch.... yikes....
12:11:22  <Yexo> <ntx> Eddi|zuHause: would IndustriesChangeInfo() be the function of interest? <- to add a new grf property for industries, yes, that's the place to look
12:12:29  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the _real_ place i would start would be digging up the last newgrf-property patch i have done, which is cb36 support for aircraft
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12:35:15  <Wolf01> hello
12:36:15  <dihedral> hello Wolf01
12:39:16  <Wolf01> I have a strange question: I have a sequence of events called "chain", where all events are called in serial mode, what would be the best name for a class which calls the events in parallel mode?
12:42:09  <peter1138> call it "run into the shadow"
12:44:08  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: you mean like a pipeline, where you start event B while event A is still being processed, if they're independent of each other, or true parallelisation?
12:45:12  <Wolf01> it should be true paralelisation, but thread is already used to mean... thread, where every event is processed
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12:45:37  <Eddi|zuHause> so you have a collection of threads?
12:46:03  <Wolf01> yes, I need an esplicative name for the collection :P
12:46:06  <Wolf01> LOL
12:46:33  <peter1138> well wolf01, you just wasted my time
12:46:48  <peter1138> as you mentioned "chain" i had to listen to the fleetwood mac song :p
12:46:52  <Wolf01> lol
12:47:06  <peter1138> (which is what "run into the shadows" is from)
12:48:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd just call it "WollknÀuel" ;)
12:49:49  <Wolf01> gah, I received a Jap named Diglett... I wonder what its name does mean
12:50:13  <Eddi|zuHause>
12:51:11  <andythenorth> ntx that's nice work, but how does it hold up with 32 cargos?
12:51:12  <andythenorth> :P
12:52:28  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: "Eddi|zuHause: ntx: so what about the use case i told earlier, showing e.g. all industries that produce or accept coal -> coal mines and power stations."
12:52:45  <andythenorth> isn't that case better met by Alberth's recent patch?
12:53:48  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i mean get a list of all coal mines and all power stations on the map
12:54:54  <andythenorth> ah
12:54:59  <andythenorth> use the minimap?
12:55:36  <andythenorth> new view for minimap.....cargo acceptance / production?
12:55:54  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: this is about the industry list, not the minimap. and still, i can't click "coal" there, and it automatically filters all industries...
12:57:00  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i told alberth that i wanted a feature where i could apply the view that his industry window gives to the map filter...
12:57:38  * andythenorth afk
12:58:57  * Alberth declined that request, as its timing was bad (ie before the industry chain window was finished)
12:59:35  <Alberth> but it may be useful to connect some industry windows together
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13:40:41  <Yexo> Could someone make some small airport preview sprites (for both original and opengfx) ?
13:41:12  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe ask in the grf forum?
13:41:47  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess rotating default airports also needs some graphics...
13:50:19  <Yexo> yes, but to rotate the default airports you have to write a newgrf anyway
13:50:36  <Yexo> the preview sprites for the default airports will be included in openttd.grf / opengfx_extra.grf
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14:05:14  <Hirundo> Yexo: Airport preview images are not drawn sprite-by-sprite (like is done for train stations)
14:05:37  <Yexo> Hirundo: no, it's a single sprite for the complete airport
14:07:01  <Hirundo> Because that is easier to draw correctly in the window, or are there any special reasons for it?
14:07:52  <Rubidium> Hirundo: international airport
14:08:10  <Hirundo> size does matter? :)
14:08:11  <Rubidium> it's kinda a bit big to show completely, and showing a part doesn't show you the whole thing
14:08:33  <Rubidium> scaling down the actual drawing would show you the complete thing
14:08:56  <Rubidium> Hirundo: I'd say so, although I don't know what Yexo has in mind for default preview sprite size
14:09:01  <Yexo> it's a lot easier to draw, and scaling down automatically would probably give ugly results
14:09:25  <Yexo> currently the window is about 150 pixels wide, but it'll scale automatically with large preview sprites
14:10:20  * Hirundo adds new action5 block type to NML
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14:32:54  <Zuu> Should strings like STR_NEWGRF_INVALID_ENGINE be replicated the same in the translations or be translated? The English string is "<invalid vehicle model>". In the Swedish translation this was not translsated; however, the Dutch and Danish translations do translate the string.
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14:33:57  <Zuu> IIRC {..} should never be translated, but I'm unsure of <...> strings as I've not seen them before.
14:34:55  <glx> no problems with <..> except the display in WT3 is somehow broken
14:35:07  <glx> but the strings are correctly stored
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14:48:35  <Zuu> So <..> should be translated?
14:49:02  <glx> they are translatable yes
14:49:16  <Zuu> Ok
14:49:34  <Zuu> I found that Waypoints had three different translations in the Swedish translation. :-)
14:49:58  <Zuu> (if you include "waypoints" as one of them)
14:53:19  <Zuu> "RiktmÀrke" is the most common translation but also "kontrollpunkt" existed. Many of the inconsistent translations are 2 year old. :-p
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15:16:22  <Mek2> hello, can somebody explain me how to set up company pruning on my dedicated server?
15:16:44  <Mek2> couldn't find anything via google, openttd forums, or the wiki
15:19:33  <Rubidium> Mek2:
15:20:38  <Mek2> ah, so it's called autoclean... thanks
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16:09:55  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20378 /trunk/bin/data/ (orig_dos.obg orig_dos_de.obg orig_win.obg): -Fix (r20305): the 'file is missing' string in the *.obg files was still for openttd(d/w).grf instead of openttd.grf
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17:05:31  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... is it feasible to load openttd.grf also when opengfx is used (possibly so that opengfx can still override items in there), so in the future things like the shade button don't require an opengfx update?
17:10:20  <Ammler> Zuu: feature request for ottdau
17:10:29  <Ammler> autodownload the base sets :-)
17:11:10  <Zuu> as in updating them or just fetch the last one if they are not present?
17:11:25  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: don't think it's that feasible because openttd is "stupid" enough that it isn't aware of openttd.grf
17:11:53  <Rubidium> also occasionally missing sprites is something that's "part" of trunk
17:12:06  <Zuu> anyway, I'm rather bussy at the moment and that's nothing I would spend my time on at the moment.
17:12:31  <Ammler> well, I don't care at all
17:12:53  <Ammler> just tested it and start failed because of it.
17:14:02  <Zuu> Then you did not follow the instructions :-)
17:14:21  <Ammler> hehe
17:14:43  <Ammler> I assume, someone would download openttd installer first anyway
17:14:50  <Zuu> The second page in the User Guide explains that you need them.
17:15:21  <Zuu> Most new users will probably start with the stable so yes. :-)
17:16:43  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20379 /trunk/src/airport_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Draw airport preview using company colours.
17:18:06  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20380 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (11 files): [OTTD_GRF] -Add: preview sprites for the default airports
17:18:26  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20381 /trunk/bin/data/ (openttd.grf orig_dos.obg orig_dos_de.obg orig_win.obg): -Add: preview sprites for the default airports
17:19:43  <andythenorth> frosch123: resp. industries not available before a certain date (controlled via cb22) would be useful to be able to force one instance to be built at a certain date
17:19:51  <andythenorth> there is nothing even close to that currently :)
17:20:29  <andythenorth> I dunno if such a thing is possible
17:22:09  <Zuu> Ammler: There is currently a problem somewhere in ottdau that makes it not upgrade 8.0-beta1 to 8.0. It is probably because the grf version stuff was never designed with beta/rc:s in mind.
17:22:34  <Ammler> no problem afaik
17:22:45  <Ammler> 8.0-beta1 wasn't long around
17:22:58  <Ammler> good to know for next time :-)
17:23:09  <Zuu> I will try to fix it, but if someone at #opnttdcoop has a problem until then, they can just remove the ottdc_grfpack dir.
17:24:04  <Zuu> Well, I will later tonight take a look and see if it is easily fixable to at least make it prefere '8.0' to '8.0-<something>'.
17:24:57  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20382 /trunk/src/airport_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Hide default airport layoutname if there is only one layout.
17:24:58  <Zuu> It probably strips away the "-<something>" part before comparing if the local and new version is equal.
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17:30:02  <frosch123> andythenorth: no idea how something like that could look like
17:30:15  <andythenorth> me neither
17:30:25  <andythenorth> sounds more like a 'goals framework' script thing
17:30:31  <andythenorth> and that's non-existenet
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17:32:34  <frosch123> bbl
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17:32:55  <andythenorth> :o
17:33:02  <andythenorth> more diesel smoke in trunk
17:33:09  * andythenorth compiles
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17:33:32  <Ammler> Zuu: I could release 8.1 :-)
17:33:42  <Ammler> it doesn't really matter
17:35:00  <Ammler> 8.0 is indeed < 8.0-beta1, I should have known
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17:35:38  <Zuu> Well, but I think if your version URL provides a lower version my system should still "upgrade" to that.
17:36:31  <Zuu> One of the mistakes I think that I have made is that I have tried to understand the versions in too much details instead of just assuming different => "upgrade".
17:36:58  <Ammler> yes, that is what I do usually :-)
17:37:42  <Zuu> It is nice to have code that understands the versions, but it adds so many pit falls and requires more maitanence when some people thinks that eg HG versions should be used as well as SVN versions etc etc.
17:38:35  <Ammler> indeed, how do you do it with cargodist?
17:39:11  <Zuu> Version 1.0 of ottdau used the version understanding to show "upgrade" or "downgrade" in the dialog, but in the end it's just far to much work for little benefit.
17:40:33  <Zuu> cargodist is a hack. I changed the client so that in addition to the pharsed version info that it sends to the server, it also sends the raw version string. So for cargodist or if someone invents a new version system, support can be added purely at server side.
17:41:40  <Zuu> The client will display the raw version string as installed version instead of the nicer format that is used for stables/nightlies however.
17:45:51  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20383 /trunk/src/lang/ (12 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:45:51  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:51  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belarusian - 672 changes by KorneySan, Wowanxm
17:45:51  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 2 changes by VoyagerOne
17:45:51  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: finnish - 5 changes by jpx_
17:45:52  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: french - 5 changes by glx
17:45:52  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: german - 4 changes by dihedral
17:51:32  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: WT3 is choked on itself again :(
17:51:44  <TrueBrain> your fault
17:52:04  <TrueBrain> make sure WT doesn't run out of RAM
17:52:06  <TrueBrain> for once
17:52:07  <Rubidium> I know... I add those pesky translators... they *always* find ways to break WT3
17:52:07  <TrueBrain> tsss
17:52:16  <TrueBrain> owh, not OOM?
17:52:37  <Rubidium> unless an IndexError is an OutOfMemoryError in disguise
17:52:50  <TrueBrain> wish that was true
17:52:54  <TrueBrain> the commit was okay?
17:54:04  <Zuu> Ammler: You could release 8.1, but it would be easier for me to try to fix the problems at my end if you keep 8.0 as the latest version.
17:54:41  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: seems so; 643 lines added/changed, although WT3 says 672
17:55:18  <glx> TrueBrain: btw strings with "<..>" are invisibles in lists
17:55:22  <Rubidium> although yesterday there were some 40 or so untranslated string pretty quickly after the commit but due to the speed of the translator I couldn't see whether they were his changes or not
17:56:51  <TrueBrain> reloading Belarusian ..
17:57:24  <Rubidium> there goes all the (week of) history
17:57:58  <TrueBrain> there we go
17:58:01  <TrueBrain> don't care
17:58:48  <Rubidium> oh... 1 pending string already! :)
17:58:56  <Rubidium> is he watching in this channel?
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18:52:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i know these attempts... they never work
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19:18:36  <andythenorth> 'more diesel smoke' took nearly exactly five years to reach trunk
19:18:46  <andythenorth> how long might 'RV smoke' take?
19:18:49  <andythenorth> :D
19:18:53  <Zuu> Ammler: Going from 8.0-beta to 8.0 should work now. The only problem I had was that my client for some reason didn't install the legacy package at the first update, so I had to update again to get thet legacy installed. Not a big issue really as the legacy package isn't really needed.
19:19:23  <Ammler> worked here perfect with my test
19:19:33  <Ammler> the only missing part was the basesets
19:19:37  <Zuu> Ammler: But please don't introduce a x.y-<something> that is considered higher than x.y. :-D
19:20:11  <Ammler> yes, that would be against versioning rules anyway, afaik
19:20:58  <Zuu> I realized that the legacy packages require me to decode the versions and understand which are higher and lower.
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19:23:18  <Alberth> Ammler: depends on your versioning strategy
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19:23:32  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20384 /trunk/src/ (gfx.cpp gfx_func.h gfxinit.cpp): -Fix: Update cursor dimensions when reloading grfs resp. changing base graphics, so the cursor does not glitch if it becomes bigger.
19:24:09  <Alberth> you could also do the betas  as x.(y-1).90-<something>, for example
19:25:02  <Ammler> Alberth: he meant something like 8.0-bugfix
19:25:13  <Ammler> which is released after 8.0
19:26:18  <Alberth> Ammler: I'd make that 8.0.1
19:26:24  <Ammler> yep
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20:12:56  <BlackXanthus> g'evenign all
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20:27:30  <BlackXanthus> any AI coders in?
20:28:19  <Rubidium> some in here know something about AI coding
20:28:33  <Rubidium> whether they are actually at their computer remains to be seen though
20:28:39  * BlackXanthus grins
20:28:41  <BlackXanthus> fair enough
20:28:48  <BlackXanthus> is the drill that I ask and wait?
20:31:24  <Rubidium> obviously (how else can you get something answered here?)
20:31:53  <Rubidium> ofcourse you could start by meta questions like: "is there anyone who wants to help me?", but those generally don't result in what you want
20:32:02  * BlackXanthus nods
20:32:22  <BlackXanthus> I suppose what I really need is a chat with someone about AI coding. I seem to be having problems with syntax
20:32:29  <BlackXanthus> as well as with finding ways of doign what I want.
20:32:46  <BlackXanthus> it seems that the API's documentation is not as clear as the wiki makes out.
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20:34:17  <ccfreak2k> AI coders should code bots to talk FOR them.
20:34:33  <ccfreak2k> The answer to "any AI coders in" would be "not anymore!"
20:34:37  <BlackXanthus> that'd be handy
20:34:43  * BlackXanthus grins
20:35:07  <BlackXanthus> I've found that a lot of the AI's are very good at what they do, and I have found at times that the AI's are also irritating.
20:35:24  <BlackXanthus> you know, when they create 20 buses, and then set them to "full load" and they block up the streets so your busses can't get anywhere
20:36:18  <Yexo> <BlackXanthus> it seems that the API's documentation is not as clear as the wiki makes out. <- where is the documantation not clear enough?
20:37:35  <Wolf01> or not being compatible with busses with trailers and trying to send them to a roadstation...
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20:38:20  <Lakie> In fairness, coding AI against a constantly changing whats possible world is a little challenging
20:38:29  <BlackXanthus> Yexo : I've found that in some places it's not exactly clear which form of a method you need. I've found that you often seem to need to nest calls to get the result you need
20:39:15  <Yexo> that's a bit generic complaint, which is hard to improve
20:39:23  <Yexo> or maybe just too generic for me because I know the api too well
20:39:35  <Yexo> but yes, you often need several api functions
20:39:58  <BlackXanthus> Yexo : you knwo the API well? awesome!
20:40:26  <Yexo> author of admilralai and sitll main maintainer of the ai code, so yes :)
20:40:27  <BlackXanthus> okay.. I have a problem selecting hte industries.
20:40:34  <BlackXanthus> grovy =)
20:40:42  * BlackXanthus hates Admiral AI.. keeps beating me ;)
20:41:10  <BlackXanthus> I've produced a simple AI that currently finds 3 towns and builds depots/stations in them, then puts 2 buses in each town
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20:41:33  <BlackXanthus> this doesn't make the AI money, so I decided to pick some industries
20:41:56  <BlackXanthus> I have found that there is *meant* to be a way to pick industries, but I can't work out how to do that
20:42:06  <BlackXanthus> I had the same problem when trying to select the correct bus..
20:42:13  <BlackXanthus> perhaps a code example might help?
20:42:17  <Yexo> a bus that drives between two stops in a single town generally doesn't make much money (unless the town is very big), a bus between two different towns should be able to make at least some small profit
20:42:27  * Eddi|zuHause hates AdmiralAI because it doesn't cleanup its mess when an attempt failed
20:43:00  <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: true, main problem I had was that if I would implement proper cleanup it'd keep trying to build at the same spot over and over again
20:43:18  <Yexo> BlackXanthus: you start with an AIIndustryList() and select the industries you want from their
20:43:26  <BlackXanthus> if(AIEngine.GetCargoType(engine_id)==AICargo.TE_PASSENGERS) //
20:43:46  <BlackXanthus> this was my first attempt at getting an engine. It's in a loop of all engines. For some reason, it didn't work.
20:43:48  <Yexo> for example you could filter for one cargo type first
20:43:55  <Yexo> then select the industry that produces most of that cargo
20:44:01  <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: yes, lack of randomisation when trying to find "good" spots is a problem of many AIs
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20:44:32  <BlackXanthus> Yexo : I've had problem writing that
20:44:43  <Yexo> BlackXanthus: AIEngine.GetCargoType() returns a CargoID
20:44:58  <Eddi|zuHause> one of the main reasons why having two opponents of the same "personality" is so bad
20:45:00  <Yexo> AICargo.TE_PASSENGERS is of type TownEffect
20:45:07  <Yexo> you can't compare "CargoID" to "TownEffect"
20:45:12  <BlackXanthus> isn't AICargo.TE_PASSENGERS an id?
20:45:23  <BlackXanthus> so should it be CC_PASSENGERS?
20:45:33  <BlackXanthus> because that didn't work for me either =/
20:45:46  <Yexo> CC_PASSENGERS is of type "CargoClass", which is not "CargoID" either
20:45:46  <BlackXanthus> it kept selecting a coal truck
20:45:52  <BlackXanthus> oh.
20:46:00  <BlackXanthus> where do I get the CargoID's from then?
20:46:01  <Yexo> their is no static list of valid cargoes because newgrfs can change them
20:46:09  <BlackXanthus> oh....
20:46:11  <Yexo> you can get a list of all valid cargos with AICargoList()
20:46:26  <BlackXanthus> then how do I select the cargo type I want?
20:46:42  <BlackXanthus> ie. I wanted to build a passenger bus service, how do I do that?
20:47:02  <Yexo> you could filter an AICargoList so you only keep cargos that are in the CC_PASSENGERS cargoclass
20:47:31  <BlackXanthus> right.. so how do I check what engines are capable of carrying passengers?
20:47:55  <Eddi|zuHause> that filter could e.g. result in "Passengers" and "Tourists", if ECS is loaded
20:47:56  <Yexo> first you find the CargoID for passengers
20:48:21  <BlackXanthus> .... how? if there's no static list?
20:48:35  <Yexo> this is the code I use in admiralai for that
20:49:52  <BlackXanthus> I see...
20:50:00  <BlackXanthus> that's a lot of coding what seemed to me to be a simple operation!
20:50:31  <Yexo> you could replace everything from line 9 on by just "return cargo_list.Begin();"
20:50:45  * BlackXanthus nods
20:50:56  <Yexo> that'll get you one passenger cargo type, but with for example ecs that might get you tourists instead of normal passengers
20:51:16  <BlackXanthus> right.
20:51:45  <Eddi|zuHause> in 98% of all cases, passengers should have the lowest ID
20:51:55  <Yexo> This would work in 99% of all cases
20:51:56  <Eddi|zuHause> Cargo ID 0
20:52:17  <Eddi|zuHause> but that is by no means guaranteed
20:52:49  * BlackXanthus nods
20:53:06  <BlackXanthus> is there, then, an easy way of getting a source and destination industry list?
20:53:21  <BlackXanthus> currently I have two loops, which seems is a huge hack (and very slow)
20:53:33  <Yexo> AICargoList_IndustryProducing
20:53:47  <Yexo> oh, nvm
20:54:05  <Yexo> AIIndustryList_CargoProducing gets you a list of all industries producing a certain cargo
20:54:55  <BlackXanthus> lemme just read teh api for that
20:55:30  <Yexo>
20:56:13  * BlackXanthus nods
20:56:26  <BlackXanthus> that does seem to make life a little easier
20:57:22  <BlackXanthus> okay, so my next problem is not API related, but Squirrel-related (I think)
20:57:59  <BlackXanthus> if I'm going to build a set of pairs "Creating Industry" -> "accepting industry". Presumbalby the easiest way is a simple glass that holds these values.
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20:58:16  <BlackXanthus> however, I can't find information on Arrays for Squirrel to hold this list in.
20:58:45  <Yexo> a list of all pairs of "source industry" -> "destination industry" would quickly become very large
20:58:55  <Yexo> probably too large to do anything useful within on large maps
20:59:03  <Yexo> it's better to filter it to what you want
20:59:18  <BlackXanthus> Yexo : the plan is only add lnustries that are wthin a manhattan distance of X.
20:59:25  <Yexo> for example create a list of all pairs "source industry" -> "destination industry" that are between 50 and 150 tiles apart
20:59:29  <Yexo> ah, ok :)
20:59:50  <Yexo> you could just create your own pair class and make an array of pairs?
20:59:53  <BlackXanthus> X is currently set 100 (because that gives me more chance of a hit).
21:00:08  <BlackXanthus> yes, I can't find a way of building the array.. (ie. I can't find info on how to build an array in squirrel)
21:00:25  <BlackXanthus> because at the very least, I could just build a 2 D array and do it ye-olde-fashioned way.
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21:00:56  <Yexo> have yo useen this?
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21:01:32  <BlackXanthus> yes, but it doesn't seem to say how I define one.
21:01:46  <Yexo> local a=["I'm","an","array"] <- just like that?
21:02:09  <BlackXanthus> and if I want to add a[3]="bigger";?
21:02:19  <Yexo> then write down exactly that
21:02:28  <Yexo> a[3] = "bigger"; is valid syntax
21:02:36  <BlackXanthus> oh right! so I don't need to grow/shrink the array or anything like that?
21:03:05  <Yexo> it does that automatically
21:03:14  <BlackXanthus> sweet! horray for loose-typed languages
21:03:16  <Yexo> alternative you can use: a.push("bigger"); to add a new value to the array
21:03:43  <BlackXanthus> and if I set a[4]=null; does that remove it? or leave a "null" item at the end of the array?
21:03:43  <Yexo> <- scroll down to "array"
21:03:58  <Yexo> a[4]=null; sets the 4th item to null
21:04:19  <Yexo> a.rawdelete(4); should work
21:04:22  <BlackXanthus> array is a type!
21:04:27  <BlackXanthus> that's why I couldn't find it!
21:04:38  <Yexo> where did you look for it?
21:04:43  <Eddi|zuHause> a = new Array()?
21:04:53  <BlackXanthus> well, arrays are normally functions =)
21:05:02  <Yexo> a table might be better in this case though
21:05:04  <Eddi|zuHause> in what language?
21:05:24  <BlackXanthus> Eddi|zuHause : Java =/, Pascal,
21:05:28  <Yexo> I've heard of functions that return an array, but functions that "are" an array never
21:05:33  <BlackXanthus> it's not normally a basic time =)
21:05:33  <Yexo> and they are not in java or pascal
21:05:40  <BlackXanthus> type.
21:05:41  <BlackXanthus> even.
21:05:59  <BlackXanthus> Arrays are not basic types in Java.
21:06:19  <Yexo> not sure how I would define them, but they are definitely not functions
21:06:22  <Eddi|zuHause> BlackXanthus: pascal had "array of <type>" types
21:06:44  <BlackXanthus> Eddi|zuHause : did it? must have been above my C&G LII cert =)
21:06:48  <Eddi|zuHause> nothing to do with functions
21:07:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know _any_ language where arrays are functions... except if you think functional languages, where types are special cases of functions ;)
21:07:47  * BlackXanthus grins
21:08:01  <BlackXanthus> true, but I'd not found a language before where an array is a basic type.
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21:09:38  <BlackXanthus> is there a simple way of finding a good location near an industry to build a station?
21:09:48  <Yexo> no
21:09:52  <BlackXanthus> bugger.
21:10:04  <Yexo> you can use AITileList_IndustryProducing
21:10:11  <Yexo> but even then I wouldn't say it's "simple"
21:10:35  <Yexo> if you're staying with 1-tile truck stations it's quite doable though
21:10:46  <BlackXanthus> that's the plan.
21:10:57  <Yexo> multi-tile stations like rail stations are harder, airports somewhere in between
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21:11:12  <BlackXanthus> once I get trucks working, I'm move onto trains
21:11:33  <BlackXanthus> trains are what I want the AI to do. Though at this point they are far out of my league
21:11:49  <BlackXanthus> AITileList does that produce the "center" tile for the industry?
21:12:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i have an idea for creating an algorithm designing a passenger network, but i have no real faith to get it actually implemented
21:12:27  <BlackXanthus> Eddi|zuHause : I was just glad when I got my bus to visit a station.
21:12:47  <BlackXanthus> Eddi|zuHause : I spent most of the time trying to get it to build the damn station before realising I was trying to build the wrong type of station.
21:12:49  <Yexo> no, AITileList is a list of tiles
21:13:11  <BlackXanthus> a list of all the tles covered by all the industries?
21:13:19  <Yexo> AITileList_IndustryProducing is a list of all tiles around an industry that will get cargo from that industry
21:13:29  <Yexo> no, you have to give one IndustryID as argument
21:13:56  <BlackXanthus> ahh!
21:14:01  <BlackXanthus> so that is fairly simple!
21:14:51  <BlackXanthus> (you know, minus working out which way you want your station to face, making sure it's not a slope, and that you can ultimately build to your destination from where you are), but other than that...
21:16:01  <Yexo> hehe, welcome to the world of AI writing ;)
21:16:26  <Yexo> don't be afraid to look at other AI code for to see how they solved certain problems
21:16:40  <BlackXanthus> Yexo : yeah.. I didn't understand it =/
21:17:12  <Yexo> feel free to ask any questions you have about admiralai's code, for other AIs I wouldn't know myself
21:17:27  <BlackXanthus> Yexo : I have ripped a lot out of TownCars, simply because that seemed to make the most sense.
21:17:54  <Terkhen> good night
21:17:59  <BlackXanthus> Yexo : I will.. my next stage is going to be to try and get my little AI to make some money
21:18:01  <Yexo> isn't TownCars an AI that builds some eyecandy vehicles that just drive around?
21:18:03  <BlackXanthus> Terkhen : g'night
21:18:07  <Yexo> gn Terkhen
21:18:16  <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: what i noticed when going through the AI tutorial was, that it resulted in an AI triggering the "0.7 compatibility" interface
21:18:23  <BlackXanthus> Yexo : yep. It does have a method for building a Depot in a good place, which was quite nice.
21:18:24  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe that should be updated
21:18:36  <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: the AI tutorial has probably never been updated
21:18:44  <BlackXanthus> the AI tutorial is a little.. short on tutorial.
21:18:45  <Yexo> the one at the wiki?
21:19:12  <BlackXanthus> I felt, as a new coder, that it should at least help you build a depot and a few stations to send your bus too.
21:19:17  <Yexo> BlackXanthus: yes, that's because expanding the tutorial takes quite a lot of time (actually write clear code, document it properly, explain how and why you did things)
21:19:26  <Yexo> time that could also be spend on working on your own AI
21:19:30  *** Seberoth [] has joined #openttd
21:19:55  <BlackXanthus> Yexo : once I get the industry selection/building working, I was gonig to build a tutorial of my own, to save other people the heart-ache I went through.
21:20:07  <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: this one:
21:20:09  <Yexo> that would be great :)
21:20:21  <BlackXanthus> =)
21:20:55  <BlackXanthus> once it's done, I'll post it on my blog, and show you (the collective you here) the link, and providing it's up to standard,  you can stick it on the wiki =)
21:21:09  * BlackXanthus has problems with the coding standard, being a Java programmer
21:21:27  <Yexo> you can define your own coding standard for your own AI
21:21:29  <BlackXanthus> I like block code, so I'll have to re-lay it out when it comes to the tutorial.
21:21:38  <BlackXanthus> Yexo : that's not what the wiki suggests =)
21:21:48  <BlackXanthus> Yexo : or, indeed, the forums.
21:22:20  <Yexo> hmm? It's your AI, you can do whatever you want with the code
21:22:20  <Eddi|zuHause> BlackXanthus: well, it is helpful if other people should review your code, that everything is in a common code style
21:22:36  <Eddi|zuHause> BlackXanthus: but you can choose your own style
21:22:40  <Yexo> if you want your code to be included in another AI then you'll have to follow the standard of that AI
21:22:46  <Eddi|zuHause> and live with the consequences ;)
21:22:54  <Yexo> same for AI libraries
21:23:28  *** KouDy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:23:33  * BlackXanthus grins
21:23:38  <BlackXanthus> huzzah for block code!
21:23:49  <BlackXanthus> it means I can find when the damn for-loop starts and finishes
21:24:03  <BlackXanthus> also, what's with that? Why does "for each" work sometimes, and other times, it doesn't?
21:24:28  <Yexo> I can't give a useful answer to that without getting an example where it does not work
21:24:54  <BlackXanthus> so, should for-each work for most loops?
21:24:58  <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: the wiki didn't have GetAPIVersion() in the info.nut tutorial part
21:25:01  <Yexo> yes
21:25:12  *** KritiK [] has joined #openttd
21:25:28  <BlackXanthus> local myNewIndustryList = AIIndustryList();                                  for(local myIndustry = myNewIndustryList.Begin(); myNewIndustryList.HasNext(); myIndustry  = myNewIndustryList.Next())
21:25:49  <BlackXanthus> could be, then, rewritten as: foreach(industry in myIndustry) {
21:26:27  <Yexo> yes
21:26:52  * BlackXanthus frowns
21:26:57  <BlackXanthus> then I wonder why it didn't work for me.
21:27:02  <BlackXanthus> must be a simple coding error
21:27:17  <BlackXanthus> at least I now know that there are people in here who do write AI's,w hich means I can come  here for help.
21:27:25  <BlackXanthus> I would guess it's a syntax problem.
21:27:35  <BlackXanthus> also, global variables.. hwo do you define them?
21:27:48  <Yexo> a <- 3;
21:27:58  <BlackXanthus> is that a constant?
21:28:06  <Yexo> no, it's a global variable
21:28:27  <BlackXanthus> so the important difference is the <-?
21:28:34  <Yexo> yes
21:28:41  * BlackXanthus nods
21:28:48  <BlackXanthus> right.. I shall bare that in mind
21:30:17  <BlackXanthus> thanks for all your help. I'm goign to head off to bed now, and add that code to my little AI sometime tomrrow night (assuming my wife doesn't castise me too much for spending too much time on the computer ;))
21:30:23  <BlackXanthus> g'night all
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21:43:47  <TruePikachu> It has just occurred to me that we should develop a unit for locomotive efficiency
21:44:21  <TruePikachu> The unit would be similar to the unit that PikkaBird uses on the av8tors page, which is:
21:44:53  <TruePikachu> _cargo_ * _speed_ / _running cost_
21:45:28  *** llugo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:46:13  <TruePikachu> I think that the unit would have to be more complex that that for locomotives, as most have no cargo capacity, and they have not only speed, but also T.E. and H.P.
21:46:50  <TruePikachu> They seem like they in fact would need 2 units (as you wouldn't use a PAX loco on a FGT train)
21:47:37  <TruePikachu> Over the next week, I'm away, so I'll work on the unit. I'll also periotically share my results in my mornings (DSLinux + IRSSI FTW)
21:48:54  * TruePikachu actually thinks that trains would need to utilise a formula to compute efficiency ratings
21:49:36  <trebuchet> I like this.
21:50:42  <TruePikachu> The idea for the unit/formula?
21:51:08  <trebuchet> yes
21:51:12  <TruePikachu> It would make locomotive choosing easier for the people without a lot of experience with a particular set
21:51:48  <Yexo> TruePikachu: if you manage to find a good unit, be sure to share it in the NoAI forum
21:51:54  <TruePikachu> For PAX, the unit should probably encapulate both speed and accelleration, while FGT needs speed and power
21:51:56  <Yexo> I'm sure a lot of AI developers will be quite interested
21:52:20  <Yexo> don't forget the initial costs / lifetime
21:52:58  <TruePikachu> Well, init. cost is a one-time cost, so it doesn't really count for this unit, and lifetime doesn't especially matter in the unit either
21:53:15  <TruePikachu> I could develop a formula to apply to encapulate those two factors, however
21:53:15  <ccfreak2k> TrueBrain, maybe locomotives with cargo capacity should just be considered locomotives with a permanent wagon of weight 0.
21:53:22  <Yexo> it does if you play with breakdowns, then you'll have to replace the engine every "lifetime" years
21:53:25  <TruePikachu> Again, wrong nick
21:53:36  <Yexo> so effectively you could add "init.cost/lifetime" to the yearly running cost
21:53:55  <TrueBrain> TruePikachu: can you please rename yourself? This is annoying :p
21:53:57  <TruePikachu> Okay, I'll have a lot to think about
21:54:22  <TruePikachu> TrueBrain: No, I use this nick on the Wiki, and I will on the Forums, and I do in quite a few other places
21:54:35  <TrueBrain> but I have been using this name much longer
21:55:02  *** KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:55:08  <TrueBrain> well, was worth a try :D
21:55:55  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: pipe your IRC traffic through a grep -v "TrueP"
21:56:15  <TrueBrain> how does that help against highlights from ccfreak2k?
21:56:30  <Rubidium> hmm, good point
21:56:49  <Yexo> pipe it through grep -v "ccfreak2k" :p
21:56:52  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: pipe your IRC traffic through a grep -v "TrueP" | grep -v ccfreak
21:56:52  <TrueBrain> I have nothing against TruePikachu, so that would be silly :)
21:57:03  *** VVG [~sdfkhksd@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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21:57:30  <TruePikachu> The core of the unit will be how long it takes to travel some distance
21:57:41  <TrueBrain> I just wonder why IRC clients don't understand that the <Tab> should give the name of the person who last talked
21:58:31  *** Chris_Booth [] has joined #openttd
21:58:50  <ccfreak2k> TrueBrain, because I don't necessarily want to hilight the last person that talked.
21:59:24  <TruePikachu> Then locomotives will be checked for 'freight efficiency', which will check the best mass to transport. This part will be complex, and may need tuning constants
21:59:37  <TrueBrain> ccfreak2k: 90% of the time, you want to
22:00:00  <ccfreak2k> Not me personally.
22:00:06  * TruePikachu doesn't understand why it is so hard to type <tab><tab>
22:00:15  <TrueBrain> TruePikachu: requires wathcing what it resolves to
22:00:28  <TruePikachu> Not for me, unless another True* joins
22:00:34  <Yexo> not only that, my irc client doens't support that
22:00:43  <ccfreak2k> Also because this is so far the only case where I have to press tab more than once.
22:01:06  <Yexo> tr<tab> gives also trebuched, then "u<tab>" gives both of you but fills it to "true', then I have to type either b or p and <tab> again
22:01:07  <TrueBrain> for a while there was also a rub* person
22:01:29  <ccfreak2k> Except I don't care about Rubidium. :)
22:01:49  <ccfreak2k> Obstinately I don't care about TruePikachu either.
22:02:34  <TrueBrain> and here we were caring about you
22:02:43  <TrueBrain> now, no, I understand how this is now
22:02:44  <TrueBrain> pffff
22:03:17  * TrueBrain hugs ccfreak2k and leaves
22:03:20  *** TrueBrain is now known as Weirdo
22:03:25  <Weirdo> should resolve the problem for now
22:03:38  <ccfreak2k> And that's the story of how I won.
22:04:12  <Weirdo> @kick ccfreak2k you think?
22:04:15  <Weirdo> @whoami
22:04:15  <DorpsGek> Weirdo: I don't recognize you.
22:04:17  <Weirdo> LOL!
22:04:20  <Weirdo> FAIL!!!!
22:05:13  <TruePikachu> It should compare hostname
22:05:27  <TruePikachu> @whoami
22:05:28  <DorpsGek> TruePikachu: I don't recognize you.
22:05:32  <TruePikachu> O_o
22:05:42  * TruePikachu thinks he needs a bot account
22:05:43  <ccfreak2k> I won so hard that I broke your stupid bot.
22:05:50  <Yexo> TruePikachu: that wouldn't help you
22:05:55  <TruePikachu> y?
22:06:13  <Yexo> you can register yourself, but that won't give you the rights for @kick
22:06:29  *** bryjen [~bryjen@] has quit [Quit: Quit]
22:06:30  <TruePikachu> I know, you need invi-mod privliges
22:06:42  <TruePikachu> Who is the master bot?
22:06:58  <DorpsGek> I am
22:07:11  <TruePikachu> Standard egghead?
22:07:18  <DorpsGek> No
22:07:20  <TruePikachu> *or w/e
22:07:26  <TruePikachu> *eggshell
22:07:31  <DorpsGek> Just a very smart bot :)
22:07:43  <TruePikachu> ...I'm meaning running software...
22:08:08  <Yexo> I've got no idea how it works or what software is used for it
22:08:21  <Yexo> you'll have to ask Weirdo for that
22:08:42  <TruePikachu> I'll try to check, I know ways (i.e. attempt to DCC)
22:09:25  <Yexo> @version
22:09:26  <DorpsGek> Yexo: The current (running) version of this Supybot is 0.83.3.  The newest version available online is
22:09:38  <TruePikachu> Okay, time to upgrade :D
22:09:51  <ccfreak2k> TruePikachu, eggdrop.
22:10:15  <TruePikachu> That's it...okay, what's the command to register w/ the bot?
22:10:29  <Yexo> just /msg DorpsGek help
22:10:52  <TruePikachu> Tried, just told me >> help [<plugin>] [<command>] <<
22:11:03  <Yexo> have you tried "help register" ?
22:11:53  <TruePikachu> @whoami
22:11:53  <DorpsGek> TruePikachu: TruePikachu
22:11:56  <TruePikachu> Lol
22:12:30  * TruePikachu points at Weirdo
22:12:33  <TruePikachu> @whoishe
22:12:34  *** Seberoth [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:12:40  *** Seberoth [] has joined #openttd
22:12:50  <Rubidium> the stupid bot always seems to forget who I am, but then... why would I want to control the bot?
22:12:54  <Weirdo> lets make a rule
22:12:59  <Weirdo> unneeded highlighting me results in a kick
22:13:01  <Weirdo> fair?
22:13:02  <Weirdo> good
22:13:16  <Sacro> Weirdo: bawww
22:13:17  <Yexo> that was so predictable :)
22:13:31  <TruePikachu> Yexo, you are a weirdo
22:13:32  <Weirdo> @kban Sacro 300 strike 1
22:13:33  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!~Sacro@adsl-83-100-174-168.karoo.KCOM.COM] by DorpsGek
22:13:33  *** Sacro was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [strike 1]
22:13:34  <TruePikachu> lol
22:13:38  <Weirdo> @kban TruePikachu 300 strike 1
22:13:39  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!] by DorpsGek
22:13:39  *** TruePikachu was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [strike 1]
22:13:47  <Weirdo> more applicants?
22:13:56  <Rubidium> should we set a mode +q on them?
22:14:11  *** Kurimus [] has quit []
22:14:32  <Weirdo> Rubidium: lol, that is nasty :D
22:15:24  <Yexo> what does +q do exactly? just not send their text to all other clients?
22:15:35  <Weirdo> channel mute, yes
22:15:58  <Rubidium> Yexo: yeah, something like that. Don't know whether they get a message that they can't send text though
22:16:11  <Weirdo> they do
22:16:12  <SmatZ> hello Weirdo, why that new nick?
22:16:14  <Yexo> @mode +q Yexo
22:16:18  *** mode/#openttd [+q Yexo!*@*] by DorpsGek
22:16:45  *** mode/#openttd [-q Yexo!*@*] by DorpsGek
22:16:45  <Eddi|zuHause> it used to tell you with +m, so i guess it works with +q the same way
22:16:47  <Weirdo> SmatZ: because some other lame ass' name starts with True too :( So fucking annoying ...
22:16:50  <Yexo> you do get a message :)
22:16:52  <SmatZ> Weirdo: :(
22:17:27  <Prof_Frink> Weirdo: But Now we'll think you're weirdy.
22:17:49  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:17:54  <Weirdo> Prof_Frink: I am
22:17:57  <Weirdo> nothing new there :p
22:18:10  <Eddi|zuHause> who would ever not think that?! :p
22:18:13  <SmatZ> :)
22:18:35  *** mode/#openttd [-b *!~Sacro@adsl-83-100-174-168.karoo.KCOM.COM] by DorpsGek
22:18:41  *** mode/#openttd [-b *!] by DorpsGek
22:18:52  *** TruePikachu [] has joined #openttd
22:19:08  <TruePikachu> Weird: you said you'd kick, not kick/ban
22:19:56  <Yexo> for a whole 5 minutes... big deal
22:19:58  <SmatZ> TruePikachu: what's the point of kick when most people have autorejoin?
22:20:00  <Eddi|zuHause> kick/ban is a special case of kick, so why not?
22:20:04  <SmatZ> hehe
22:21:17  <TruePikachu> How can I get DorpsGek to give me a command list?
22:21:21  <Weirdo> if I always would do what I say, the world would be boring
22:24:30  *** Seberoth2 [] has joined #openttd
22:25:08  *** bryjen [~bryjen@] has joined #openttd
22:26:28  *** Cybertinus [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:28:11  *** Vitus [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:30:21  <Yexo> TruePikachu: msg the bot "list" to get a list of plugins, or "list <plugin>" to get a list of commands with a plugin
22:31:50  <Weirdo> most commands and plugins are hidden
22:32:01  <Weirdo> the bot is not a toy
22:32:05  <Weirdo> night all :)
22:32:16  *** Seberoth [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:32:20  <Wolf01> night
22:33:38  <Rubidium> yeah, we'll bury you!
22:34:07  <Rubidium> or isn't Wolf01 going to bed yet?
22:34:24  <Wolf01> no, mine is 'night :P
22:34:31  *** keoz [] has quit [Quit: keoz]
22:35:11  *** Biolunar [] has quit []
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22:46:59  <Wolf01> 'night all
22:47:09  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
22:47:09  <Rubidium> then we'll bury you now!
22:48:06  <SmatZ> hehe
22:52:53  <Dewin> I'm looking for a crash course of getting OpenTTD source code downloaded and merging in a few patches.  The patches seem to be git based, so I'm using git (which I'm not familiar with) instead of svn (which I am).  Alternatively, if there are existing win32 binaries of 1.0.3 or trunk + cargodist, I'd love to know.  (My forum crawling seems to have only found 1.0.0)
22:53:34  <Eddi|zuHause> Dewin: you don't need git to apply git patches
22:53:48  <Eddi|zuHause> only make sure you use -p1 with the patch command
22:53:52  <Rubidium> cargodist + stable is "stupid"; cargodist is developed against trunk
22:54:08  <Rubidium> furthermore the cargodist thread has some win32 binaries
22:54:58  <Rubidium> (or at least links to them)
22:55:09  *** Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
22:55:22  <Rubidium> and I seem to remember that fonsinchen also created svn diffs somewhere
22:56:16  *** ZR13 [] has joined #openttd
22:56:22  <ZR13> Hi
22:56:38  <Dewin> Yeah, I had trouble tracking down a 'recent' binary -- at least, it sort of claimed to be 0.4.0(ish) and wouldn't load
22:57:11  <Dewin> Namely, I found  but can't make sense of them.
22:57:14  <SmatZ> I don't really think there was cargodist in 0.4 times
22:57:25  <ZR13> Why doesn't fullscreen work in 1.0.3 and 1.0.2?
22:57:26  <Rubidium> 0.4.0-ish? That's like millenia ago
22:57:35  <Dewin> That's what I thought.
22:57:41  <TomyLobo> maybe cargodist 0.4.0? :)
22:57:48  <SmatZ> ZR13: OSX?
22:58:04  <Rubidium> TomyLobo: cargodist never had such version numbers
22:58:12  <TomyLobo> just a guess
22:58:15  <Rubidium> and cargodist started somewhere in the 0.7 era
22:58:39  <Dewin> ah, correction, it was 0.8.0
22:58:45  <Eddi|zuHause> Dewin: what sense is there to make? the page is sorted by date
22:58:49  <Dewin> Judging by the "File Version" attribute.
22:59:16  <Rubidium> ah, then it was trunk after 0.7 was branched (but before Christmas 2009)
22:59:19  <Dewin> Eddi|zuHause: Thes ense there to make is the fact that I, for some reason, thought it was date ascending not date descending, and only just now realized the june dates were 2009 not 2010
22:59:50  <ZR13> Win 7
23:00:05  <Dewin> >.>  Now I feel stupid.  Ah well.
23:00:06  <Rubidium> Dewin: page 89 of the cargodist thread has some windows binaries as well
23:00:33  <Dewin> ah, that's much more up to date, I think I will go with that.
23:00:35  <Rubidium> ZR13: did you select a resolution that your monitor/videocard supports at full screen?
23:00:36  <Dewin> How did I miss that.
23:00:41  <Eddi|zuHause> ZR13: does it work if you set a resolution in the game settings window?
23:00:49  <Dewin> other than not reading all 92 pages of the forum threads... just the first and last couple
23:00:58  <SmatZ> ZR13: worksforme
23:01:17  *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:01:18  <Eddi|zuHause> Dewin: usually the inofficial binaries are towards the back of the thread
23:01:35  *** ezra_ [] has joined #openttd
23:01:47  <SmatZ> ZR13: try to maximise the window (using the maximise button) and then try to weitch to fullscreen
23:01:48  <Eddi|zuHause> the ones on the page you linked to are "official" binaries, but they're done only on special request
23:02:00  <SmatZ> s/weitch/switch
23:02:04  <Dewin> Gotcha.
23:02:36  <ZR13> Yes it was the resolution. It wasn't set right. :)
23:02:43  <ZR13> Thank you.
23:03:05  *** ^Spike^ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:03:43  <Dewin> Thanks for the help.  I knew the answer was staring me right in the face I just needed a good boot to the head. :-p
23:03:49  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... there must be some solution to filter out "wrong" resolutions... this is not the first time i heard of this problem
23:04:23  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: if the system doesn't provide list of valid resolutions, some default list is used
23:04:29  <SmatZ> (at least, for SDL)
23:04:44  <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: this is win7, so probably not SDL
23:05:21  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, but I would wonder if there wasn't similiar mechanics in the gdi (?) code
23:05:24  <ZR13> Another question if I might.
23:05:38  <Dewin> Now if I could just figure out why FIRS seems to like to put certain primary industries only one part of the map but the secondary industries on the other half, I'll be golden.
23:05:43  <Eddi|zuHause> ZR13: maybe some specs like graphics card/driver version could help build a statistic
23:05:48  <ZR13> When do trams and Meglevs become buildable?
23:06:07  <TomyLobo> trams? you need a tram set
23:06:07  <Eddi|zuHause> ZR13: trams are not in the default vehicle set. maglevs about 2020
23:06:10  <TomyLobo> maglev? 2021 iirc
23:06:13  <SmatZ> ZR13: for trams, you need a newgrf ; maglevs ...
23:06:16  <SmatZ> slow SmatZ
23:06:31  * TomyLobo smatz SmatZ
23:06:34  <SmatZ> :)
23:07:15  <Eddi|zuHause> have i ever told you how "schmatz" is when you make weird noises while eating?
23:07:28  <ZR13> Thank you. About my configuration. It works fine now. The problem was incorrect resolution. Do you need my sysspecs?
23:07:38  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: I thought it's some "kissing" sound, this makes it less nice :(
23:08:01  <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: a "schmatz" can also be a kiss, yes ;)
23:08:12  <SmatZ> :-)
23:08:58  <Eddi|zuHause> but less the "sweet" kind of kiss between lovers, more the kind when your mother kisses you goodbye ;)
23:09:41  <Eddi|zuHause> or grandmother
23:09:41  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: still better than those weird noises while eating ;)
23:09:45  <TomyLobo> i was more thinking of something like "smacks"
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23:12:48  <ZR13> BTW does anybody know what is with the port to N900?
23:13:10  <ZR13> The game doesn't work with 1.2 OS.
23:13:32  <Rubidium> probably it was never updated to work on it?
23:18:23  <ZR13> It worked before. But with update to OS there are problems with starting it.
23:18:43  <ZR13> It is too bad because it worked really great.
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23:50:12  <Belugas> ho boy... Sirkoz's head willbe even bigger now...
23:50:37  * Belugas goes back to vacations
23:50:51  <Eddi|zuHause> hehe ;)
23:51:07  <Eddi|zuHause> one of those darn realism things slipped in! :)
23:51:29  <Eddi|zuHause> that must be a drain on Belugas' mood ;)
23:51:54  <Rubidium> but you can now play without smoke, which is totally unrealistic!
23:53:50  <Eddi|zuHause> but... wasn't that smoke patch around since MiniIN times? or was that a different one?
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23:59:43  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... anyone considered a "minimum bridge height" property for ships?
23:59:56  <Eddi|zuHause> might make sense for separating river from sea ships

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