Log for #openttd on 16th August 2010:
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00:00:01  <TruePikachu> What's the file extension?
00:00:10  <TomyLobo> you'll find out
00:00:11  <planetmaker> <Eddi|zuHause> then call on us if you didn't figure it out in half an hour <--
00:00:27  <planetmaker> you talk too much and think too little
00:00:30  <TruePikachu> ...that's one long file extension *_*
00:00:45  <TomyLobo> .youllfindout
00:01:29  <TruePikachu> TomyLobo: That didn't work
00:02:02  <TomyLobo> ^^
00:02:04  <TruePikachu> .scn ?
00:02:07  <TomyLobo> good night
00:02:14  <TomyLobo> .scnr
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00:05:17  <TruePikachu> It is .scn
00:08:13  <Eddi|zuHause> see, and it took you way less than half an hour.
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01:18:47  <TruePikachu> Eddi|zuHause: Well, I didn't think it would be as easy as changing the file extension
01:19:07  <TruePikachu> Anyway, moving the town is harder than I thought it would be
01:19:17  <TruePikachu> (with all those industries)
01:26:22  <PeterT> I got a player from Oman on my server :o
01:32:00  <TruePikachu> Will taking a scenerio and renaming it to .sav work?
01:32:16  <TruePikachu> Or will I have to use "Play Scenerio"?
01:32:49  <TruePikachu> And, if the latter, what will happen other than loading a map into a specific condition?
01:33:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i think there are a few subtle differences
01:34:03  <Eddi|zuHause> especially if certain settings are taken from the saved state or the new game [main menu] state
01:37:18  <TruePikachu> Okay...
01:37:55  <TruePikachu> I assume the latter is for scenerios
01:41:40  <TruePikachu> Feature Request: Ability to type in a year in the Scenerio Editor
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02:37:50  * TruePikachu needs to design a 4-way L_L8R_R junction before playing more games of OpenTTD
02:38:14  <TruePikachu> :( I hate junction design
02:38:33  <TruePikachu> Especially junctions which have to be easy to build
02:39:03  * TruePikachu should also database his junctions (and depot node)
02:40:41  <TruePikachu> Hmmm...what should the maximum dimensions of a Co-op quality L_L8R_R junction be?
02:41:47  <TruePikachu> I know I'll make the junction have rotational symmetry
02:41:54  <Aali> designing a junction *before* starting a game seems rather pointless
02:42:11  <TruePikachu> Aali: It's the way I work
02:42:27  <Aali> how do you know what you need beforehand?
02:42:39  <Aali> and what if it doesn't fit the landscape?
02:42:45  <TruePikachu> Because I make most all my networks similar
02:43:08  <TruePikachu> And, for the landscape, I just type "`newgame<ENTER>"
02:43:23  <TruePikachu> Or I pull out the dozer
02:43:46  <Aali> oh, I could never do that :)
02:44:00  <TruePikachu> Anyway, this junction will (actually be a 3 way)
02:44:09  <Aali> half the fun is making things up on the spot for special situations
02:44:31  <TruePikachu> One leg of the junction will have practically all of the train traffic go through it
02:44:38  <Aali> I make no two junctions alike
02:44:59  <TruePikachu> I make most of my junctions similar
02:45:31  <TruePikachu> However, I've been making them up on the spot, and they jam
02:45:52  <TruePikachu> I'll need this one junction at least to be perfect strainght from the get-go
02:46:29  <TruePikachu> After all, I'll have to stop all the trains if I work on it for safety
02:46:30  <Aali> you dont need perfect junctions to avoid jams :) just make sure you dont have any joins before splits
02:46:47  <TruePikachu> ^^ Lol, there is a lot more than that
02:47:31  <Aali> thats pretty much the only rule I have when I build junctions, always works out pretty well
02:47:37  <TruePikachu> You have to be able to maintain signal density
02:47:47  <TruePikachu> In some cases, you need priority lines
02:48:18  <Aali> I dont consider that part of junction design, you always have to think about that
02:48:32  <TruePikachu> Lol, you actually sound like me from before I read the Co-op pages
02:48:51  <Aali> I've played on the coop server a number of times
02:48:55  <TruePikachu> After those pages, I've been working on efficient junctions
02:49:00  <Aali> and built many stations and junctions for them
02:49:04  <TruePikachu> Oh...
02:49:18  <TruePikachu> Well, I'm much looser than they are
02:49:32  <TruePikachu> My SD is 2 instead of 4, and I mix PAX and FGT
02:49:38  <TruePikachu> *4 instead of 2
02:49:58  <TruePikachu> And pretty much all of my trains reach the mainline
02:52:19  <Aali> I have more fun playing short(er) games with close friends though, without any specific rules on how to build stuff
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02:53:55  <Aali> its always structured and fairly well done but things are not super-optimized until its absolutely necessary
03:27:40  * TruePikachu must exit as per a regulation with a few encrypted files
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07:14:13  <Terkhen> good morning
07:14:34  <planetmaker> good morning Terkhen
07:14:44  <planetmaker> and good morning all others :-)
07:19:53  <Terkhen> :)
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08:33:51  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20511 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Fix: Initial height of townlist was not a multiple of the line height.
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09:08:49  <planetmaker> hm... ctrl+w in wrong window. Somtimes the active window = window under cursor is not as helpful as most of the time ;-)
09:10:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i have the most problems when occasionally the window below the curser is not the active one...
09:10:35  <Eddi|zuHause> which can happen in some circumstances, especially with popup windows
09:10:48  <planetmaker> yes.
09:11:09  <planetmaker> that's annoying ;-)
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09:15:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't found the right setting to tweak there... currently i have to completely leave the current window, and go back. or i have to click it, which is not always the right thing to do, as it also pushes the window on top
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09:24:00  <planetmaker> Dunno... I'm not sure there are more settings in my case than 'focus on window under mouse'
09:24:14  <planetmaker> Anyway it's the most convenient concept I found for focus so far
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09:28:22  <Eddi|zuHause> there are various settings for "focus stealing" or so...
09:29:29  <planetmaker> maybe in new(er) KDE :-)
09:33:56  <Eddi|zuHause> newer than 3.ancient, yes
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09:44:17  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20512 /trunk/src/console_cmds.cpp: -Fix [FS#4036]: Generation seed is unsigned.
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12:18:51  <Wolf01> hello
12:21:29  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20513 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Change: unify style of some "broken NewGRF" strings
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12:24:42  <Belugas> beurk
12:25:00  <Belugas> how come 2 weeks are passing so fast :(
12:25:14  <planetmaker> moin Belugas
12:25:34  <Rubidium> Belugas: good question, I'm still wondering why I "missed" sunday
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12:30:17  <planetmaker> probably as it was a quite rainy day ;-)
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12:33:02  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20514 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix: Draw error messages in white by default, they may not have a colour code.
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12:40:48  <Belugas> poor Rubidium... stay awake 24h today,. you'll get back the missed day :)
12:41:00  <Belugas> hi hi planetmaker
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13:14:34  <_Johannes> hi there, can some on please help me out? allmost all my trains deprecated in 2050....
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13:15:32  <Rubidium> what climate are you using?
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13:15:55  <Rubidium> and what types of trains are you using? Are they all diesel/steam engines?
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13:17:00  <_Johannes> I used the first climate (default, looks european)
13:17:07  <_Johannes> they are all electrical
13:17:28  <_Johannes> I used to buy these Shinkansen like trains
13:17:35  <_Johannes> but now, I can only buy SH-40
13:18:10  <Rubidium> ah, deprecated in that way
13:18:14  <V453000> turn of expiring vehicles for your next game :p
13:18:24  <_Johannes> yeah, but for thiS=
13:18:25  <_Johannes> ?
13:18:37  <_Johannes> I have not made any saves before 2015 :(
13:18:55  <V453000> dont know of any way how to solve that :)
13:19:09  <Rubidium> that's somewhat default behaviour; vehicles get a random lifetime and if that doesn't reach 2050 they won't be available after that. You "were" meant to migrate to monorail/maglev, but I agree those look ugly
13:19:39  <Rubidium> in any case... you can, as V453000 said, enable the "vehicles never expire" option.
13:19:40  <planetmaker> hm... That gives me an idea what OpenGFX+ should also 'fix'
13:19:58  <Rubidium> to do that for your current game go to the advanced settings window
13:20:13  <V453000> pm: going to make some interesting maglevs? :D
13:20:26  <planetmaker> :-) I don't draw
13:20:27  <_Johannes> @  Rubidium : I did that
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13:20:32  <Rubidium> then under vehicles there is an option "vehicles never expire"
13:20:34  <Rubidium> okay
13:20:37  <_Johannes> but it did not change anything :(
13:20:49  <V453000> it just makes the rest of your trains never expire
13:20:57  <V453000> but the dead ones will not return :)
13:20:58  <Rubidium> true, because it only applies to vehicles that have not expired yet, but...
13:21:00  <planetmaker> reset_engines
13:21:20  <Rubidium> open the in-game console (in the dropdown at the right of the main toolbar)
13:21:30  <Rubidium> and type, like planetmaker said, reset_engines in there
13:21:37  <Rubidium> that should make all engines avaiable again
13:21:40  <V453000> wee, never did that :)
13:22:16  <_Johannes> command not found :(
13:22:47  <_Johannes> (I opened the console with ^)
13:23:04  <VVG> isn't it resetengines?
13:23:17  <Rubidium> VVG: could be
13:23:24  <V453000> it is :)
13:23:33  <_Johannes> yeah it worked!!!
13:23:37  <_Johannes> thank you so much :)
13:24:44  <V453000> fix your vehicles never expire option also in the main menu - advanced settings so it doesnt happen again :p
13:25:00  <peter1138> if you help me
13:25:11  <peter1138> find the door that doesn't lead right back again
13:25:14  <peter1138> take me away
13:25:40  <Muxy> i have a savegame who makes desync when using it on a server. Is such thing possible ?
13:26:00  * Muxy should start with Hello everybody... so Hello !
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13:27:54  <planetmaker> Muxy, yes. If you use the wrong version and 'wrong' savegame
13:28:11  <planetmaker> e.g. if the server couldn't load the game due to missing newgrfs
13:28:13  <Muxy> pm: what do you mean wrong savegame ?
13:28:41  <Muxy> there is no newgrf on this savegame, but i will check
13:29:34  <Muxy> server did not display error message about newgrf missing
13:29:37  <planetmaker> for desyncs two things are absolutely necessary to know to even get started: game version in use and the savegame :-)
13:30:05  <planetmaker> dedicated or non-dedicated server?
13:30:19  <Muxy> server dedicated
13:30:23  <Muxy> no patch
13:30:33  <Muxy> (nor Goulp Patch)
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13:31:33  <Muxy> server 1.0.3
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14:04:39  <dihedral> if you say your server aint patched, then there is not need to even mention any patch you might know ^^
14:05:03  <glx> it's his usual patch ;)
14:05:18  <dihedral> pfft - teens these days!
14:06:39  <Muxy> teens ?
14:07:09  <Muxy> i say so cause everybody know that Muxy likes heavilly patched servers
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14:47:10  <dihedral> then Muxy does not deserve any support
14:47:36  <planetmaker> ?
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14:49:10  <Belugas> Muxy, don't bother dihedral. He's a bit touchy and quick to respond ;)  no offence dihedral
14:49:35  <Belugas> yuo might explain a little more about the Problem
14:49:36  <Belugas> like...
14:50:00  <Belugas> version, when it occurs, did you tried this or that...
14:50:02  <Belugas> etc etc
14:50:21  <planetmaker> the savegame itself might be helpful :-)
14:50:37  <planetmaker> that'd make it (possibly) re-producable for others
14:50:55  <Ammler> hehe, and I would bet Muxy is older than dih :-)
14:51:10  <planetmaker> :-) I won't bet against you
14:51:15  <Ammler> maybe than me
14:51:23  <planetmaker> :-D
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14:55:38  <darkomen> hey
14:55:52  <Terkhen> hi darkomen
14:56:12  <Belugas> Ammler, i'll bet the same :)
14:56:18  <Belugas> planetmaker, yuou might loose
14:56:49  <planetmaker> Belugas, what?
14:57:02  <planetmaker> I said I agree with Ammler :-)
14:57:02  <darkomen> can anyone help me about NewGRF FIRS? I searched for capable vehicle sets but i dont find any set
14:57:23  <Ammler> just try ECS sets
14:57:37  <planetmaker> darkomen, try any you like
14:57:45  <Terkhen> IIRC compatible vehicle sets are listed at the readme
14:57:57  <darkomen> ok, thank you
14:57:58  <Terkhen> but most sets should work
14:58:12  <Ammler> ECS compatible*
14:58:41  <darkomen> and, are all the NewGRFs capable with multiplayer?
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14:59:03  <Ammler> there I would limit to bananas only sets
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15:00:18  <darkomen> then, can i upload a NewGRF in Bananas to play online?
15:00:24  <planetmaker> no
15:00:27  <planetmaker> unless you wrote it
15:00:45  <V453000> I guess DB set writers are long gone :(
15:00:52  <planetmaker> he isn't.
15:00:56  <Ammler> the important sets are there
15:00:58  <darkomen> so newgrfs aren't open source :(
15:01:17  <planetmaker> V453000, he actively is against :-)
15:01:21  <V453000> ?
15:01:27  <V453000> oh
15:01:30  <V453000> why :(
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15:01:36  <planetmaker> TTDP...
15:01:58  <V453000> like ... he devotes the DB set to TTDP only?
15:02:25  <Ammler> darkomen: yes many are sadly closed, but still on bananas
15:02:39  <planetmaker> not really. But can't care about bananas.
15:03:20  <darkomen> BaNaNaS rocks
15:03:42  <V453000> cant care? :( isnt that just uploading?
15:03:46  <darkomen> thanks to reply guys, see ya
15:03:53  <Ammler> darkomen: tell that the german community guys :-P
15:04:00  <planetmaker> ^
15:04:05  <planetmaker> ^ also V453000
15:04:09  <V453000> :O
15:04:25  <V453000> german community hates bananas?
15:04:27  <Ammler> hehe, you two still some Àhm
15:05:11  <Ammler> V453000: the active but not uploading to bananas are all german speaking, I would guess
15:05:25  <planetmaker> I fear, you're right, Ammler
15:06:06  <V453000> I just fail to understand the point of their doing :)
15:06:47  <planetmaker> V453000, not only you
15:06:54  <V453000> I see :(
15:09:52  <V453000> hmm DB set is in our pack though, isnt it?
15:09:59  <planetmaker> yes
15:10:18  <V453000> I guess we need some agreement from the author for that too
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15:18:46  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20515 /trunk/src/ (console.cpp console_cmds.cpp): -Feature: ignore _ in console command names so there is no "inconsistent" behaviour w.r.t. underscores anymore without breaking backwards compatability greatly
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15:24:23  <Ammler> [17:10] <V453000> I guess we need some agreement from the author for that too <-- no, but we have
15:25:14  <V453000> :)
15:25:58  <V453000> I suppose finding a reason why bananas is for him so different from our pack is quite beyond any reasonability :D
15:26:53  <Rubidium> I'd say the 2+ years of extra aging of his NewGRFs might be the reason
15:27:47  <V453000> well, they work and DB set is still one of the best :)
15:28:22  <Eddi|zuHause> what's the average download count of each grf on bananas?
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15:31:54  <avdg> eddi: I can find some downloadstats on but I can't give you the result
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15:33:06  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: 21030.0084, without OpenGFX per actually uploaded file
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15:33:55  <avdg> average?
15:34:12  <Rubidium> yes
15:34:24  <avdg> thats a pretty high number
15:34:24  <Rubidium> an average of 44673 per GRFID
15:34:38  <avdg> I'm stunned
15:35:13  <Rubidium> it's doing ~20 GiB a day
15:35:35  <Rubidium> at "this" moment that is
15:36:34  <Rubidium> 15.3 million downloads since early 2009; 6.3 TiB in total
15:37:12  <V453000> nice numbers :)
15:37:17  <avdg> hmm
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15:37:37  <Rubidium> peak day had 115k downloads / 49 GiB
15:37:38  <avdg> oh wrong link :p
15:38:15  <avdg>
15:39:51  <Rubidium> <- blue is downloads, yellow is 30 day average downloads, orange is bandwidth in MiB
15:40:33  <andythenorth> How much of that is FIRS :P
15:41:17  <planetmaker> andythenorth: that's easy. You know your filesize :-)
15:41:27  <planetmaker> and good evening, andythenorth
15:41:46  <andythenorth> hi
15:41:52  <andythenorth> just a flying visit :)
15:41:56  <andythenorth> back to work
15:42:32  <andythenorth> I have charts too :P
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15:58:21  <V453000> are people able to download also older versions from bananas? such as Japanese TrainSet v2 beta8?
15:58:48  <glx> only if needed by a savegame
15:59:15  <V453000> and by a server?
15:59:46  <glx> the savegame part is still valid ;)
15:59:59  <Wolf01> run the server as a client and load the savegame
16:00:09  <V453000> oh :)
16:00:11  <V453000> true :)
16:00:13  <V453000> thanks
16:00:17  <V453000> perfect \o/
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16:07:13  <Eddi|zuHause> feature request: town forbids removing the central road tile despite of good rating
16:07:18  *** Zuu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:10:41  <planetmaker> :-)
16:11:05  <planetmaker> or it could just continue to grow on any road tile in its influence area
16:12:42  <V453000> how would you define influence area :)
16:16:06  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20516 /trunk/src/ (hotkeys.cpp lang/english.txt signs_func.h signs_gui.cpp): -Feature [FS#3472]: Filter signs at the sign list window. (Zuu)
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16:20:10  <planetmaker> o/
16:20:29  <planetmaker> V453000: the area is already defined *somehow*
16:20:40  <planetmaker> Use the query tool on tiles and you'll see
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16:22:05  <avdg> hmm.. I am thinking about adding that scroll-feature from the shade on the menu list
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16:23:10  <avdg> its like feeling natural on a touchpath
16:23:16  * avdg gets a normal mouse :p
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16:40:55  <Zuu> :-) @ r20516
16:41:28  <avdg> aaaa :)
16:41:30  <avdg> sign filter
16:41:50  <Rubidium> oh... has Terkhen committed something that breaks Zuu's patch *again*?
16:42:16  <Zuu> Though, it is so far "only" part 1 of the patch. The second had some issues that I need to look at.
16:42:23  <planetmaker> again ;-)
16:42:51  <Terkhen> yeah, I'm afraid part two will not apply cleanly because I changed a comment :P
16:43:21  <planetmaker> :-P Ugly, ugly...
16:43:22  <Zuu> you bastard :-)  -- I guess it was a spelling mistake so I forgive you.
16:43:52  <Terkhen> :)
16:45:04  <Terkhen> now I can't translate "match case" properly... must be karma
16:45:32  <Zuu> Look how you/they did it for the AI Debug window.
16:46:19  <Zuu> hmm, maybe those should use the same string for the button caption, and only different strings for the tooltips or even make the tooltip generic too.
16:46:20  <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: "Groß- und Kleinschreibung beachten" :=)
16:46:23  <Terkhen> incorrectly :)
16:46:59  <Terkhen> "Comprobar mayúsculas y minúsculas" <-- probably too big for a button
16:47:13  <planetmaker> what a mess to translate
16:47:15  <Eddi|zuHause> (prime example for translations being longer ;))
16:47:23  <planetmaker> match case --> Groß- und Kleinschreibung beachten
16:47:28  <planetmaker> only 'slightly' longer
16:47:44  <Zuu> planetmaker: One reason why I in the last minute added a tooltip text to the button, so you could shorten it and use the tooltip to clarify.
16:47:48  <Terkhen> "case" does not exist in spanish, only "upper case" and "lower case"
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16:47:57  <planetmaker> Terkhen: same in German
16:48:51  <Zuu> In swedish there is "character case" which is a bit long, but should work.
16:48:53  <glx> just do like the check box in firefox ctrl-F
16:50:02  <planetmaker> Hm... would something like "Groß- und Kleinschreibung{}beachten" come out as two-line button?
16:50:29  <glx> theorically yes
16:52:52  <Zuu> Is there a proper way to remove a patch in hg patch queue? (other than emptying the corresponding patchfile)
16:52:59  <planetmaker> I'll try
16:53:13  <planetmaker> We'll know in two hours latest or so ;-)
16:53:13  <Rubidium> Zuu: qdelete?
16:53:22  <planetmaker> qfold
16:53:31  <planetmaker> though... that adds it
16:54:08  <Ammler> hg help mq
16:55:56  <Zuu> Thanks, qdelete did it
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16:56:57  <PeterT> woo Terkhen!!
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16:59:52  <Terkhen> hmm...
17:06:02  <Terkhen> planetmaker: adding {} does not seem to work very well:
17:06:37  <Terkhen> at least with my string
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17:07:38  <Zuu> Terkhen: So you have commited also part2?
17:07:40  <Belugas> horse is back to duty
17:08:31  <Rubidium> Terkhen: that's due to the string not being drawn with DrawStringMultiline
17:08:48  <Terkhen> Zuu: unless I did so by mistake, no
17:09:01  <Rubidium> Terkhen: you probably get some comment on the console as well
17:10:29  <Zuu> I findIt looks like you did commit part 2. The member variable "selected" is there and handling of page up/down etc.
17:10:38  <planetmaker> Terkhen: that looks ugly indeed :-(
17:10:53  <Terkhen> duh
17:11:09  <planetmaker> Terkhen: then make it DrawStringMultiline, if possible ;-)
17:11:19  <planetmaker> it'll help both you and me ;-)
17:11:26  <frosch123> just do "Groß/Klein"
17:11:33  <planetmaker> boooring ;-)
17:11:40  <planetmaker> and it's not correct
17:11:45  <frosch123> a two row button will be ugly
17:11:49  <Terkhen> Zuu: I probably did qrefresh at the wrong patch
17:11:50  <frosch123> the editbox is only one line
17:11:55  <planetmaker> because I don't switch between small and capitalized
17:12:56  <Zuu> Terkhen: Fixing the assert should be fairly simple though. Add "(int)this->signs.Length()" to the if-statement before the switch case for page up/down etc.
17:13:09  <Zuu> "(int)this->signs.Length() != 0" it should be.
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17:16:16  <Zuu>
17:16:23  <planetmaker> but I guess... might be the only solution then... No really correct translation :-(
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17:24:21  <Zuu> planetmaker: you could check how it is done for the ai debug window. It also has a "match case" button in trunk.
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17:25:59  <planetmaker> good idea. Will do, thanks
17:27:06  <planetmaker> no good idea
17:27:20  <planetmaker> The translation I supplied is worse than bad
17:27:35  <Terkhen> Zuu: the other problems would still be present... each thing at its time :)
17:27:40  <Terkhen> sorry about that
17:27:59  <TomyLobo> i want to extend my station past the 12x12 limit (without cheating and just setting the limit higher). my idea was using a waypoint instead of the station in the trains' timetables
17:28:22  <TomyLobo> with non-nonstop orders
17:28:41  <TomyLobo> would that work?
17:28:52  <TomyLobo> the trains only need to unload btw
17:29:04  <Terkhen> planetmaker: I'll look into it, but I'm guessing it won't be trivial
17:29:22  <planetmaker> Terkhen: the buttons and their translations?
17:29:32  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20517 /trunk/src/signs_gui.cpp: -Fix (r20516): Committed way too much.
17:29:35  <planetmaker> I guess we have to become inventive
17:29:36  <Terkhen> using DrawStringMultiLine at buttons
17:29:40  <Zuu> I'm looking at the shift-problem problem, also fairly simple to fix I think. The focus thing you mentioned is most non-trivial. However I'm not sure I agree on that the arrow keys should scroll the list while any part of the window is focused.
17:30:37  <Terkhen> but allowing it only at the edit box is almost a "hidden" feature
17:31:04  <Zuu> Ah, good you rolled it back. Then I can calm down and fix the problems. :-)
17:31:50  <Zuu> Well, it
17:32:10  <Zuu>  is mainly aimed at those who want to use keyboard only at that window.
17:33:58  <Zuu> My main use case is that someone says "hey look at the trains at sign Blah blah.. ". A keyboard user would then use a hotkey to open the window and focus the edit box and use it from there.
17:34:34  <Zuu> You could allow it for the entire window, but then it clatches with paning the main view.
17:35:11  <Terkhen> if someone sees that the keys worked after using filtering, he will expect them to work in other situations too
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17:36:54  <Zuu> hmm, good point.
17:37:07  <Wolf01> and triggering an event like on strategy games? I mean, the player "A" selects from the "tile info tool" to broadcast the position to other players with a predefined text like "Hey please, look at this position" which should be clickable as a link
17:37:33  <Zuu> That means, selecting within the result "should" be added to more windows or none.
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17:40:18  <Zuu> And at some point, filtering could be added to many more windows, but you have to start somewhere.
17:40:48  <Zuu> afk -> dinner
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17:46:02  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20518 /trunk/src/lang/ (15 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:46:02  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:02  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: chuvash - 30 changes by mefisteron
17:46:02  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 4 changes by VoyagerOne
17:46:02  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: czech - 2 changes by marek995
17:46:04  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 5 changes by habell
17:46:04  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: finnish - 5 changes by jpx_
17:46:59  <avdg> hmm.. I'm still looking at how the dropdown menu works
17:51:08  <avdg> if you are searching for the widget on a 2d coordinate, you retrieve the most inner widget right?
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18:43:06  <Zuu> Hmm, didn't we have a sticky thread about the nightlies before?
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18:44:46  <Rubidium> Zuu: what are your intentions for it?
18:45:12  <Zuu> I was just wondering why there is no nightly yet, and wanted to see if someone already had complained about it.
18:45:40  <Rubidium> usually it's because one of the mirors is slow
18:46:44  <Zuu> Oh, ok and finger + website waits until all mirrors are done?
18:46:50  <Rubidium> exactly
18:50:01  <Rubidium> having said that... restarting the compile farm's VM doesn't trigger the "queueing" of compile jobs
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19:00:44  <TruePika> Xrufuian: How's your internet going?
19:00:55  <Xrufuian> Fine.
19:00:57  *** TruePika is now known as TruePikachu
19:01:01  <TruePikachu> Got fixed?
19:01:08  <Xrufuian> Yep.
19:01:18  <TruePikachu> I've been working on trying to generate a good map for tomorrow
19:01:46  <TruePikachu> One step was converting a savegame (which I have up on the flyspray) to a scenerio
19:01:53  <TruePikachu> I asked here how to do it
19:02:04  <TruePikachu> Someone told me to use Windows Explorer for it
19:02:30  <Xrufuian> Haha! I don't think that's part of KDE...
19:02:37  <TruePikachu> Or Linux in general
19:03:01  <TruePikachu> Last night, I learned about the ^Z sequence and the Alt-SysRq sequence
19:03:40  <TruePikachu> The latter kills the foreground process, and is reccomented to use before logging in
19:03:59  <TruePikachu> The former lets you run multiple programs on one tty terminal
19:04:17  <TruePikachu> Now to learn how to move a process from one terminal to another...
19:04:32  <Xrufuian> By the way, I've been working on the NewGRF idea I mentioned in the e-mail.
19:04:44  <TruePikachu> Well, anyway, the new game will have NewStations, and regearing enabled for NARS
19:04:56  * TruePikachu hasn't checked his e-mail
19:05:12  <TruePikachu> brb
19:05:43  <TruePikachu> :( I can't push irssi to the background
19:06:56  <TruePikachu> But, I got vlock working (lets me lock the tty terminals)
19:07:15  <Xrufuian> How would you like a new computer?
19:07:44  <Sacro> use screen or something
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19:09:40  <planetmaker> TruePikachu: IE on non-windoze is not _that_ far-fetched:
19:09:57  <TruePikachu> planetmaker: ...I use FireFox
19:10:17  <TruePikachu> Windows Explorer != Internet Explorer
19:10:33  <TruePikachu> The former is for local files, the latter is for web addresses
19:11:22  <TruePikachu> However, from Win98 to IE7, Microsoft has tried to hide the difference
19:11:43  <planetmaker> there's not much of one
19:11:47  <TruePikachu> They are two completly different tasks
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19:11:55  <TruePikachu> iexplore.exe vs. explorer.exe
19:12:45  <TruePikachu> Now, it looks like /me will have to get SCREEN installed here if he will move processes from one terminal to another
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19:16:12  <TruePikachu> Now, I have to read about screen
19:16:35  <TruePikachu> me gets his (free) Ubuntu book, despite the fact he isn't using Ubuntu
19:17:13  <Xrufuian> Maybe you will be soon...
19:17:29  <TruePikachu> No, I need to use Slackware on this computer
19:17:45  <Xrufuian> What if I give you a computer.
19:17:53  <TruePikachu> I don't think that will happen
19:18:11  * TruePikachu recalls a specific Google ad: Download free Hardware
19:18:28  *** Mucht [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:18:43  *** welshdragon [] has joined #openttd
19:20:24  <TruePikachu> Lol
19:20:31  <Xrufuian> Why not? I've got lots of spare parts. My father would like very much to give you a computer that is comparable to mine.
19:20:41  <TruePikachu> I just found the book again, and the back inside cover:
19:20:59  *** Mucht [] has joined #openttd
19:21:04  <TruePikachu> "Buy this book in 2008 and recieve a <b>Free Upgrade to Ubuntu 8.10</b>
19:21:06  <TruePikachu> "
19:21:34  <Xrufuian> Haha! Ubuntu is already free. What a scam.
19:21:53  <TruePikachu> If you want, I can take a picture
19:22:13  <TruePikachu> Wait, IDK where my camera is ATM
19:23:07  <Xrufuian> Na. I'd prefer some pics of the Hundai-ROTEM CEM coaches, so I could finish drawing that.
19:24:41  *** perk111 [~perk11@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:25:07  * TruePikachu is already confused by the sheer awesomness which is screen
19:26:22  <TruePikachu> Yesterday, I discovered a new keyboard shortcut in Firefox
19:26:51  <TruePikachu> Quick Find can be activated with "/"
19:27:02  <TruePikachu> lol that I just discovered it yesterday
19:27:32  <Xrufuian> What does it matter to me? I use Chrome or Chromium.
19:27:40  <TruePikachu> See if "/" does Find
19:27:56  <Rubidium> Zuu: *you* could have said that there was no nightly build yesterday either
19:28:13  <frosch123> what surprises me more is that ctrl+f does something different to /
19:28:25  <TruePikachu> Which program? Firefox?
19:28:34  <TruePikachu> ^F does the full-featured Find
19:28:39  <Zuu> yep, sorry did you do a lot of work because I didn't say that?
19:28:43  <TruePikachu>  / does the Quick Find
19:29:39  *** theholyduck [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:29:46  <Rubidium> Zuu: I did more work yes; trying to explain that the mirrors are occasionally slow. If you hadn't said anything I wouldn't have noticed it either I guess
19:29:50  <TruePikachu> If you're talking about Vim, well, you can type ^F =
19:30:04  <TruePikachu> (lol, ^F didn't display)
19:30:25  * TruePikachu wonders what that is even used for in plaintext
19:30:53  * Rubidium wonders whether rsync has some "incremental" feature so it stores the previous state and only sends the changes since that state
19:31:10  <frosch123> TruePikachu: what is the vim hotkey to start a proper editor?
19:31:11  <Zuu> Sorry about that. I'll be more verbose next time. I didn't want to complain to much.
19:31:38  <TruePikachu> frosch123: There is none. Vim _is_ a proper editor
19:32:15  <TruePikachu> However, if you are running a GUI, you may want to try running gVim instead
19:32:17  <Zuu> Vim is _the_ proper editor*
19:32:26  <TruePikachu> Zuu: Yes
19:32:55  <TruePikachu> However, in school, OOO is better
19:33:13  <TruePikachu> My teacher actually showed how little she knows
19:33:32  <TruePikachu> She told me that the only program she wants me to type my assignments in is MS Word
19:33:51  <TruePikachu> Xrufuian: Remember that?
19:34:28  <Xrufuian> Yes, I rember that very stupid statment.
19:34:50  <TruePikachu> She wouldn't listen to me telling her that Word wouldn't work
19:35:13  <TruePikachu> Then Xrufuian told her the same thing, she told him to shut up because she was talking to me
19:35:24  <Xrufuian> By the way, the amdinistration just screwed up royal a few days ago...
19:35:33  <TruePikachu> Then I tried telling her again, and she told me to shut up because she was talking to me
19:35:46  <Xrufuian> That was funny.
19:35:52  <TruePikachu> Xrufuian: What did the admin do?
19:36:06  <TruePikachu> Set the DNS server to again
19:36:07  <TruePikachu> ?
19:36:54  <TruePikachu> (Just in case, that IP was 127 0 0 1, or localhost)
19:37:55  <Xrufuian> They set my class scedule, without a meeting (so IEP violation), and put me in Pournell's phisics class, dispite the fact that I have zero of the req. Life sicence credits...
19:38:17  <TruePikachu> I got my classes w/o an IEP either, and I have her for homeroom
19:38:34  <Xrufuian> I still have Toscano.
19:38:42  <TruePikachu> At least it isn't Lee...(for my homeroom)
19:39:08  <TruePikachu> He yells at me for locking the computer
19:39:15  <TruePikachu> I go to it, and it says:
19:39:27  <TruePikachu> Press Ctrl-Alt-Delete to begin...
19:42:21  <Xrufuian> THG is in hot water. My father is going to send in a complaint to the state.
19:43:36  <Xrufuian> Anyways, I seem to recall you had an idea for a NewGRF?
19:44:20  <TruePikachu> I don't remember what it was...
19:44:40  <Xrufuian> Something about signals?
19:44:54  <TruePikachu> I don't think so...
19:44:54  *** avdg [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:45:12  <TruePikachu> could have been a NOT gate, but that is impossible with Grf
19:45:28  <Xrufuian> There was something like two or three ideas.
19:45:42  <TruePikachu> ...and my signal idea with priority would need to be a patch...
19:45:58  <TruePikachu> IDK, go dig in the logs
19:46:02  *** avdg [] has joined #openttd
19:46:30  <Xrufuian> Since when where face-to-face conversations logged?
19:47:13  <TruePikachu> Oh, I thought you meant on IRC
19:48:06  <Xrufuian> No, I think we never spoke of our ideas on IRC. We did once or twice in email.
19:48:12  <TruePikachu> Oh, something like a hovering light above the signal that you can easily see
19:48:21  <TruePikachu> From any orientation
19:48:31  <TruePikachu> To help with junction debugging
19:49:05  <Xrufuian> That sounds like it, but there was something more...
19:49:18  <TruePikachu> Hmmm...
19:49:30  <TruePikachu> IDK
19:50:13  <Xrufuian> Oh! I remember now!
19:51:05  <Xrufuian> The idea was to create signals that are even easier to distinguish apart.
19:51:13  <TruePikachu> Oh yeak
19:51:18  <TruePikachu> *yeah
19:51:36  <planetmaker> Xrufuian: give them to me
19:51:39  * TruePikachu is currently thinking a hover above the default signal graphics
19:51:55  <planetmaker> Though we right now got better signals, but I haven't tested them ingame
19:52:11  <planetmaker> But currently the default ones are... hard on the eyes
19:52:24  <TruePikachu> I'll draw up some diagrams of my current idea
19:52:41  <Xrufuian> planetmaker: In OpenGFX, you mean?
19:52:46  <planetmaker> yes
19:53:25  <TruePikachu> Yesterday, I was trying to reverse engineer a junction
19:53:32  <TruePikachu> I couldn't ident the signals easily
19:55:13  <Xrufuian> I wonder if the concept graphics are still in my OpenTTD folder. I'll be right back.
19:56:25  *** Wizzleby [] has joined #openttd
19:56:31  <Xrufuian> Yes! Found them!
20:00:53  <TruePikachu> Sorry for my bad art:
20:01:04  <TruePikachu> You may be able to make out the parts
20:01:11  <TruePikachu> Left is red block
20:01:18  <TruePikachu> Biddle green pre-signal
20:01:21  <TruePikachu> *Middle
20:01:30  <TruePikachu> Right top clear one-way PBS
20:01:31  * TomyLobo hands TruePikachu http://
20:01:43  <TruePikachu>
20:01:56  <TruePikachu> Right bottom is two-way red PBS
20:02:21  <TruePikachu> This can be a GRF, not intended for OpenGFX
20:02:25  <TomyLobo> just use semaphores for the simple block signals :)
20:02:52  <TruePikachu> No, these signal 'mode diagrams' 'hover' above the signal
20:03:00  <TomyLobo> oh
20:03:06  *** Biolunar [] has joined #openttd
20:03:09  <TruePikachu> So you can tell at a glance
20:03:14  <TruePikachu> It would best be a GRF
20:03:31  <TomyLobo> about pbs signals... arent they red anyway, most of the time?
20:03:37  <TruePikachu> Yes.
20:03:48  <TruePikachu> The green is just to maintain consistancy
20:03:58  <Xrufuian> Do you still have the file "NDS Samples.pcx"?
20:04:05  <V453000> hmm ... what is the maximum of train order count please?
20:04:13  <TruePikachu> I don't know if I ever even got that file
20:04:13  <TomyLobo> try it out
20:04:23  <TruePikachu> Wait, what do you mean?
20:04:41  <V453000> maximum amount of orders you can set for one vehicle
20:04:50  <TruePikachu> V453000: Most likely around 2^n, where n is an integer
20:05:02  <TruePikachu> It may be 2^n - 1
20:05:29  <V453000> ...
20:05:37  <TruePikachu> Lets put it this way: If you run out of orders, you have too many orders :P
20:05:40  <V453000> now tell me n
20:05:41  <V453000> :)
20:05:49  <TruePikachu> 0 < n < Over 9000!!!
20:05:50  <planetmaker> V453000: >100
20:05:55  <planetmaker> I *think* 255
20:06:12  <TruePikachu> ^^ that would likely be 8 for n
20:06:22  <TruePikachu> 255 = 2^8 - 1
20:06:40  <V453000> 255 orders?
20:06:54  <Xrufuian> 255 would be logical. Common computing numbers.
20:06:54  <V453000> @calc 11*3*4
20:06:54  <DorpsGek> V453000: 132
20:07:03  <V453000> hmm I forgot something :)
20:07:28  <Rubidium> @calc 11*3*42
20:07:28  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 1386
20:07:35  <Rubidium> yes... that definitely isn't going to fit!
20:07:41  <TruePikachu> I doubt you could use 2^255 = 57896044618658097711785492504343953926634992332820282019728792003956564819968 orders, could you?
20:08:15  <TruePikachu> ^^ that took a while to type in
20:08:20  <Rubidium> although I gladly give you a binary with a smaller limit
20:08:36  <V453000> I rather need a high limit :p
20:08:48  <TruePikachu> OVER 9000!!! <-- like that?
20:08:57  <Xrufuian> 65535?
20:09:20  <V453000> dunno how many yet :p
20:09:28  <V453000> oh
20:09:31  <V453000> 20*3*4
20:09:38  <V453000> @calc 20*4*3
20:09:38  <DorpsGek> V453000: 240
20:09:41  <V453000> maybe
20:09:47  <V453000> but seems like it is possible :)
20:10:00  * TruePikachu wonders how big the savegame would be if V453000 decided to use 1000 trains, each with 65535 orders each, all orders unique
20:10:24  <Xrufuian> Depends on the map size.
20:10:27  <TruePikachu> ^^ as in no shared orders
20:10:33  <TruePikachu> Let's use 2048^2
20:10:35  <V453000> I use just one shared orders group
20:10:38  <V453000> :p
20:11:49  <TruePikachu> I use short order lists
20:11:57  <V453000> well, normally :p
20:12:10  <V453000> but sometimes one needs to go nuts :p
20:12:28  * TruePikachu is imagining if V453000 is like a Co-op with 453000 members
20:12:38  <V453000> ? :o
20:12:49  <TruePikachu> Then again, max number of clients is 255
20:13:21  <V453000> :D
20:13:35  <TruePikachu> V453000: About the comment about going nuts, you should have seen one of Xrufuian's orders
20:13:43  *** JVassie_ [~James@] has joined #openttd
20:14:02  <V453000> hehe
20:14:06  <TruePikachu> Xrufuian: Remember that bus you put in that city in the game where I kernel panic'd?
20:14:19  <Xrufuian> Yep.
20:14:29  <TruePikachu> 1. Goto XYZ 00
20:14:32  <TruePikachu> 2. Goto XYZ 01
20:14:35  <TruePikachu> 3. Goto XYZ 02
20:14:36  <TruePikachu> ...
20:14:48  <TruePikachu> 9. Goto XYZ 08
20:15:05  <TruePikachu> 10. If vehical needs replacing in 10 months, goto order 2
20:15:08  <Zuu> The order limit is probably 128 or 255. There was an early AI that built airports and solved the inverse traveling salesmen problem (as long path as possible). It ran into the order length maximum.
20:15:28  <TruePikachu> ^^ it's as short of a path as possible :P
20:15:40  <TruePikachu> Oh, inverse
20:15:49  <Zuu> Tha's why I said the _inverse_ TSP problem.
20:15:53  <Zuu> That's*
20:15:59  <V453000> order 254: too many orders
20:16:55  <Xrufuian> 255: Quit Job & shout at mircomanaging CEO...
20:17:13  <V453000> lets use all 254 orders :)
20:18:12  <TruePikachu> Lol @ backspace in SCREEN
20:18:58  *** JVassie [~James@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:19:20  <avdg> what blocks it :p
20:20:42  <TruePikachu> brb
20:20:49  *** TruePikachu [] has quit [Quit: Moving this to SCREEN]
20:21:18  *** TruePika [] has joined #openttd
20:21:22  *** TruePika is now known as TruePikachu
20:25:25  <TruePikachu> Did anyone say anything since my join?
20:26:10  <Xrufuian> Nope.
20:27:12  <Belugas> or... between your departure and your join
20:27:21  <Belugas> neither, anyway
20:27:23  <TruePikachu> After my most recent join
20:27:34  <frosch123> we just deicded for a party place
20:28:00  <TruePikachu> ???
20:28:43  *** KritiK [] has joined #openttd
20:28:56  <V453000> :D
20:29:05  *** Zuu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:29:40  <TruePikachu> Lol, I just moved irssi to KDE from tty1
20:29:51  <V453000> wtf 123? :D
20:30:09  *** Sacro [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:30:40  <TruePikachu> Hello, I'm back in tty1
20:30:59  *** sn6 [] has joined #openttd
20:32:28  <planetmaker> 123?
20:32:39  *** Illegal_Alien [] has joined #openttd
20:33:28  <V453000> pm: just pointing out at the amount of shortcuts I dont actually understand :p
20:34:00  <sn6> Someone once told me that increasing profit by increasing distance has an actual limit. Was there something like that?
20:34:18  <V453000> yes, 2048 tiles? :D
20:34:47  <planetmaker> actually 4096 tiles ;-)
20:34:54  <Rubidium> sn6: yes, after a certain distance the profit per <time> decreases
20:34:57  <V453000> well whatever :p
20:34:57  <planetmaker> (=diagonal)
20:35:05  <V453000> yea
20:35:38  <TruePikachu> 4092, you can't actually use the outermost row or column
20:35:45  <Rubidium> just take a look at the page
20:36:22  <Rubidium> the distance vs income graph to be specific
20:37:26  <Rubidium> what it basically shows is that one train doing 2 600 tile trips makes more money than 1 train doing 1 1200 tile trip
20:37:59  *** darkomen [] has joined #openttd
20:39:02  <Rubidium> the income still rises over longer distances, but the income per time unit decreases after those 600 tiles
20:39:29  <Rubidium> (and that is for one specific case; those graphs can be made for all cargos, the numbers will be different though)
20:41:17  <Rubidium> but then... it all depends on how you "calculate" profit; at the end of the trip the one 1200 tile trip will make a higher profit than the 600 tile trip, but because the 600 tile trip can be done twice the profit for the 2 600 tile trips is higher
20:43:28  <sn6> Rubidium: thanks, the wiki explains everything - no need to repaste ;)
20:44:04  <Rubidium> sn6: I'm trying to educate V453000 and planetmaker a bit as well :)
20:44:13  <planetmaker> :-)
20:44:20  <V453000> \o/
20:45:37  <sn6> hm cargo payment graph patch is still not included
20:46:11  <TruePikachu> Lol
20:46:22  *** Zuu [] has joined #openttd
20:46:24  <TruePikachu> This is running in both tty1 AND Kde
20:46:30  <sn6> or is it? it doesn't look like it.
20:46:54  * TruePikachu likes SCREEN
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20:48:10  <V453000> I am usually running on ground
20:48:16  <V453000> I really dont like to fall :)
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20:53:37  <TruePikachu> I'm going to try to switch this computer to runlevel 3, but IRSSI may be killed
20:53:43  <TruePikachu> brb (possibly)
20:54:29  <TruePikachu> Lol, I'm still here
20:55:52  *** Wizzleby [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:56:18  *** Sacro [] has joined #openttd
20:56:56  <TruePikachu> Lol, still here
20:57:04  <TruePikachu> On the computer in my living room
20:57:06  *** Wizzleby [] has joined #openttd
20:57:07  *** Wizzleby [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:57:16  <TruePikachu> WinXP
20:57:42  <TruePikachu> Gotta love PuTTY
20:58:28  <sn6> you sound like you've just seen toasted bread for the first time
20:58:43  <darkomen> Aren't you in the Prof Chen lab?
20:58:59  <darkomen> =)
20:59:41  <TruePikachu> sn6: This is the first time I've brought an IRSSI session from tty1, to KDE, back to tty1, merged it into KDE, and accessed it from the fastest computer in the house
20:59:47  <TruePikachu> darkomen: ?
21:00:18  <darkomen> prof oak in english version.
21:00:27  <TruePikachu> No, I'm in Johto
21:00:36  <TruePikachu> In the Radio Tower
21:01:27  <darkomen> ohhh
21:01:35  <TruePikachu> Playing Buena's Password
21:01:42  *** Wizzleby [] has joined #openttd
21:01:44  <TruePikachu> It just came on
21:01:54  * darkomen just find a true Pokemon Fan O_o
21:02:00  <TruePikachu> ^^ found
21:02:05  *** Kurimus [] has quit []
21:02:17  * TruePikachu wves to MAY
21:02:20  <TruePikachu> *waves
21:03:24  <TruePikachu> Xrufuian's game glitched up, and he became May
21:06:17  <TruePikachu> Lol, I'm on my DS now
21:07:59  * TruePikachu wonders if it is possible to remotly use X
21:08:22  <sn6> TruePikachu: tightvnc
21:08:41  <Eddi|zuHause> <Wolf01> and triggering an event like on strategy games? I mean, the player "A" selects from the "tile info tool" to broadcast the position to other players with a predefined text like "Hey please, look at this position" which should be clickable as a link <--- making the chat text clickable is very non-trivial, but if you provide a patch...
21:08:59  <TruePikachu> Does it work without tty7 leaking the X session?
21:09:00  <sn6> sn6: or plain X forwarding (Xming on Windows)
21:09:11  <sn6> truepikachu: or plain X forwarding (Xming on Windows)
21:09:46  <TruePikachu> I'll look into that
21:09:55  <sn6> subsequently, there is also Xnest (though more of a gimmick to show that nothing "leaks")
21:10:26  <Wolf01> you can always use the newspaper way, and deny to disable that kind of "news", you could also limit to 1 request every 10 seconds to limit the news-spam
21:12:20  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: ideally, it would just parse the incoming chat for town names, station names, sign text, etc.
21:12:39  *** Nite_Owl [] has joined #openttd
21:12:50  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: the same things that you would tab-complete in the chat input
21:12:52  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
21:12:58  * TruePikachu still finds SCREEN amazing
21:13:42  <Nite_Owl> I am guessing that the compile farm is having a few off days ??
21:13:49  <Eddi|zuHause> TruePikachu: did you try "ssh -X" yet? [or -Y, depending on your paranoia]
21:14:18  <TruePikachu> no, I'll read the man page
21:14:34  <Eddi|zuHause> Nite_Owl: a random hiccup caused it to not trigger automatically today
21:14:44  <TruePikachu> But I mean, can you have 2 different X sessions going?
21:15:08  <avdg> :p so long the nightlies aren't distributed, I'm won't get complains ^^
21:15:11  <Eddi|zuHause> TruePikachu: you mean like a remote desktop or something?
21:15:19  <TruePikachu> Yeah
21:15:27  <Nite_Owl> and yesterday as well - not a problem though - just my curiosity looking for confirmation
21:15:29  <TruePikachu> Something like ssh ing
21:16:05  <Eddi|zuHause> TruePikachu: try krdc
21:16:12  <Rubidium> hmm, the binaries are made... only finger wasn't updated... /me blames myself once more
21:16:13  <sn6> TruePikachu: x2go
21:16:32  <TruePikachu> krdc and x2go?
21:16:45  <sn6> depends on what you now actually want. minutes ago it was screen.
21:17:27  <TruePikachu> I'm just asking if those are the correct spellings
21:17:54  <TruePikachu> These letters are 4x5 pixels large on a DS
21:18:22  <Nite_Owl> I am sure that in the due course of things it will all be put right - no hurry - no worry
21:18:27  <Eddi|zuHause> TruePikachu: it's the KDE Remote Desktop Client (where remote desktop protocol is the one used by windows, so you can login to windows pcs this way)
21:18:41  <TruePikachu> Ok
21:18:42  <Xrufuian> Cool.
21:18:50  <Rubidium> Nite_Owl: it should show up in a few minutes
21:18:54  *** Chris_Booth [] has joined #openttd
21:20:30  <Eddi|zuHause> TruePikachu: the disadvantage over ssh -X is that you need server-side programs running
21:23:18  <Nite_Owl> Thank you Rubidium - tomorrow would have worked just as well but since you are being so efficient I will get my trunk fix today
21:25:28  <TruePikachu> I just looked at the ssh man page
21:26:30  <Rubidium> Nite_Owl: had to test my fix, which in effect fixed the website
21:28:46  <TruePikachu> clear
21:28:48  <Nite_Owl> Thank you once again - I will do the download
21:28:50  <TruePikachu> O_o
21:29:01  * TruePikachu forgot /
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21:30:02  <TruePikachu> ^^ LOL
21:30:35  <TruePikachu> just fell
21:31:05  <TruePikachu> Or something
21:39:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure it's Ammler's fault ;)
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21:51:01  <Zuu> Hmm, the re-ordered AI gui adds a colon to the setting description even if it is zero length.
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21:55:45  <frosch123> is that troublesome?
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22:00:02  <dihedral> hehe - i have nothing to do with that :-P
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22:05:33  <Zuu> Hmm, why did frosch123 leave when I made a screenshot + FS task (4040)
22:06:32  *** SmatZ- [] has joined #openttd
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22:10:49  <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes frosch123 is so quick at leaving, he leaves even before he can say good night
22:13:46  *** bryjen [~bryjen@] has quit [Quit: Quit]
22:13:50  <Ammler> dih, me neither :-P
22:14:40  <Ammler> bouncer restarts are evil
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22:19:40  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker's utf-8 is broken
22:19:53  <Eddi|zuHause> as in... it is not utf-8 ;)
22:20:46  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20519 /branches/1.0/src/gamelog.cpp: [1.0] -Fix [FS#4038]: Crash when the content download tried to get a MD5 checksum of an "originally" loaded NewGRF
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22:37:58  <Nite_Owl> Feeding time - later all
22:38:02  *** Nite_Owl [] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon]
22:40:22  <Ammler> is nite_owl a farmer or an animal?
22:42:40  <Eddi|zuHause> an owl is usually an animal
22:45:33  <TruePikachu> If you look at his last statement, it implies that he gets fed, rather than that he feeds himself
22:45:53  <TruePikachu> He most likely would be a pet owl, if he is an owl
22:46:31  <TomyLobo> (°v°)
22:46:35  <TruePikachu> lol
22:46:46  <TruePikachu> Say that when he comes back
22:46:57  <TruePikachu> RIGHT when he comes back
22:47:07  <TomyLobo> you do that, i need to go to bed ^^
22:47:21  <TruePikachu> What is the hex code for your square?
22:47:34  <TruePikachu> *eyes
22:47:54  <TomyLobo> shift+^ :D
22:48:03  <TomyLobo> just a degree sign
22:48:08  <TomyLobo> or use copypaste
22:48:15  <TruePikachu> ...Shift+Shift+6, eh?
22:48:23  <TruePikachu> I just get ^
22:48:37  <TomyLobo> german keyboard
22:49:11  <Xrufuian> Chris, you don't have an Alt. Gr key...
22:49:29  <TomyLobo> i dont need one for the degree sign either
22:49:38  <TruePikachu> Well, if I have one, it would likely be RIGHT ALT
22:50:26  <Xrufuian> You'll have to change the keyboard layout settings.
22:50:35  * TruePikachu doesn't know how to :P
22:50:45  <TruePikachu> What command would it likely be?
22:51:18  <Xrufuian> AFAIK, you need to do it via GUI.
22:51:46  <TruePikachu> Well, then, it won't carry over to the console, IIRC
22:52:37  <TruePikachu> Wait, I found it
22:52:56  <TruePikachu> The current setting for it is US
22:53:11  <Xrufuian> US-Standard, right?
22:53:31  <Ammler> this AI debug crashes our Autopilot :-(
22:53:32  <TruePikachu> Yeah
22:53:47  <TruePikachu> Lol, e-macs editor layout is availible
22:54:39  <Xrufuian> Is there a setting like "US-International (Alt Gr key)" ?
22:54:45  <TruePikachu> I didn't see one
22:55:11  <Xrufuian> Is there one called "US-Indernational"?
22:55:25  <Ammler> hmm, should I have set Severity of FS#4042 to critical?
22:55:25  <TruePikachu> No, there is no US-inDernational
22:55:32  <Ammler> or is that only, if it would crash openttd?
22:55:34  <TruePikachu> Nor is there a US-International
22:55:55  <TruePikachu> There is a Unicode, though
22:56:11  <Xrufuian> Um, ok?...
22:56:50  <TruePikachu> It gives SOME AltGr support
22:56:59  <Xrufuian> Let me boot the VM so I can see what you're dealing with.
22:57:00  <TruePikachu> (I.E.AltGr+4=$
22:57:07  <TruePikachu> Hmmm...
22:57:18  <TruePikachu> I'll make a simple account for you
22:57:38  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: setting things to critical is likely putting you on all kinds of ignore lists ;)
22:57:49  <Ammler> :-)
22:57:52  *** avdg [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:57:59  <Ammler> I might be there already :-P
22:58:52  <TruePikachu> What port is SSH?
22:58:55  *** avdg [] has joined #openttd
22:59:16  <Xrufuian> Well, I told him we should have a private IM system...
22:59:40  <TruePikachu> What port is SSH??? I need to forward it
22:59:59  <Rubidium> Ammler: 4042 looks more like a local configuration error; having two content downloads with the same data
23:00:34  *** ^Spike^ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:01:01  <TruePikachu> Xrufuian: WHAT PORT IS SSH?!
23:01:03  <Xrufuian> Chris: Port 22
23:01:10  <Ammler> Rubidium: like a symlink from working dir to ~/.openttd/content_download?
23:01:42  <Ammler> hmm
23:01:49  <Rubidium> yep... those are seen as two different directories
23:01:49  <TruePikachu> K.
23:01:54  <Rubidium> and it'll scan both
23:02:09  <Rubidium> and thus find a load of duplicates
23:02:33  <Rubidium> and having two different versions of the same AI with the same version is a quite serious bug w.r.t. bananas
23:02:55  <Ammler> I did that because bananas does download to workdir instead of ~/.openttd
23:03:05  <Ammler> (we have a cfg there)
23:04:08  <Ammler> but to keep one bananas for every server
23:04:42  *** Biolunar [] has quit []
23:04:57  <Rubidium> -dai=-1?
23:05:09  <Ammler> should that work?
23:05:27  <Ammler> I thought I tried once, but then it didn't
23:05:28  <Rubidium> you could at least try
23:05:37  <TruePikachu> Xrufuian: Tell me when you're in
23:06:21  <Zuu> TruePikachu: If you are on Linux then there is setxkbmap for X and another command which I have forgotten for the layout to be usen in the alt + <number> consoles.
23:06:46  <Zuu> If you add custom layouts, you need to make two of them, one for the console and one for X. :-p
23:06:47  <TruePikachu> Zuu: Those consoles are just called the console
23:06:59  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20520 /branches/1.0/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs):
23:06:59  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
23:06:59  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Draw error messages in white by default, they may not have a colour set when coming from a NewGRF (r20514)
23:06:59  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Entering half the 'generation seeds' in the console's 'newgame' command failed to set the correct seed [FS#4036] (r20512)
23:06:59  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Desync when converting rail all as trains with a part on the converted rails need updating and not only the engines (r20500)
23:07:00  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Ignore the non-stop state when comparing one order type to another order type, otherwise non-stop nearest depot orders fail [FS#4030] (r20498)
23:07:02  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Non-dedicated servers failing to load a game caused the introgame to be the server's game causing desyncs when people tried to join [FS#3960] (r20497)
23:07:14  * TruePikachu wants to kick CIA-2 for flood
23:07:36  <Ammler> I wonder that you survived that long here
23:07:57  <TruePikachu> ? Those7 messages appeared at once here
23:08:02  <TruePikachu> *Those 7
23:08:03  <Zuu> Shall we count the number of lines you have typed this evening and compare with CIA-2?
23:08:33  <TruePikachu> Xrufuian: what's your status for connecting?
23:08:42  <TruePikachu> nvm, I see you
23:08:59  <Wolf01> 'night
23:09:05  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
23:09:15  * Zuu gets happy when CIA-2 posts
23:09:19  <Ammler> Rubidium: I am still not able to reproduce it, I only see those debug output in the screen when AP+ freezes
23:09:34  <Ammler> if I reload, it is fine
23:10:14  <Rubidium> still... AP+ is buggy if it can't handle unexpected (debug) output
23:10:21  <Ammler> yep, it is
23:10:53  <Ammler> but I also wonder about debug output with level 0
23:10:59  <dihedral> it used to be able to handle those
23:11:07  <dihedral> i.e. 'ignore' them ^^
23:11:13  <TruePikachu> Xrufuian: Type "echo <msg> | wall"
23:11:28  <Ammler> dihedral: yeah, we might have broken it in the meantime :-)
23:11:29  <dihedral> it merely passes them through - at least that was what happened the last time i edited ap+
23:11:50  <dihedral> yep - that what happesn if you muck about with stuff too much
23:12:01  <Ammler> without any idea :-P
23:12:05  <dihedral> + i saw that you ignroe the client id in the join message
23:12:32  <dihedral> handling the client id in the join message would speed up things quite significantly
23:13:02  <dihedral> i.e. executing callback scripts right away rather than after 3 - 5 s
23:13:19  <Ammler> we coded that out?
23:13:26  <dihedral> :-)
23:13:33  <dihedral> you tried to 'fix' something
23:13:34  <TruePikachu> Xrufuian: If you load up nano or vim, you can test the KB
23:13:35  <dihedral> someone did
23:13:38  <dihedral> you = openttdcoop
23:13:38  <TruePikachu> Maybe
23:13:57  <Ammler> well, finally it might be me :-)
23:14:37  <dihedral> anyway - past my bed time
23:14:39  <dihedral> good night ^^
23:14:44  <TruePikachu> lol, 'man nano'
23:14:59  <Ammler> we never really took much care about it
23:14:59  * TruePikachu can see what you do
23:15:12  <Ammler> since we were just waiting for Avignon :-P
23:15:28  <TruePikachu> And back to BASH
23:15:55  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20521 /branches/1.0/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs):
23:15:55  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
23:15:55  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Desync when vehicles change NewGRF properties such as visual effect when changing railtype [FS#3978] (r20505, r20504, r20503, r20502)
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23:17:29  <Ammler> banning!
23:18:23  <TruePikachu> Xrufuian: Type "screen"
23:19:02  <TruePikachu> Wait, I forget how to see it...
23:19:08  <Zuu> TruePikachu: Have you heard of /msg ?
23:19:11  <Eddi|zuHause> <Ammler> but I also wonder about debug output with level 0 <- i agree. it should rather be shown at debug level 1, and debug level for ai set to 1 by default. like it is done for debug level net for dedicated servers
23:19:11  *** Illegal_Alien [] has quit []
23:19:43  <Ammler> well, if -1 works
23:19:46  <Eddi|zuHause> then setting debug level to 0 should override this output
23:20:00  <Eddi|zuHause> debug level -1 is unintuitive at best
23:21:09  <Ammler> is there some debug output with level 0, I can trigger to test?
23:21:16  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but that is more like proposing *all* debug levels to be bumped by one level
23:21:31  <Rubidium> so you can disable any (or all) debug output
23:21:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: why? ai is the first thing i notice that is this spammy on debug level 0
23:22:06  *** darkomen [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
23:24:09  *** keoz [] has quit [Quit: keoz]
23:24:13  <Rubidium> it is only spammy when things are wrong (AFAIK)
23:24:20  <Eddi|zuHause> "you know, the film Eat, Pray, Love is rated 'R' - You know what the 'R' stands for?"
23:24:33  <Eddi|zuHause> "RUN!! GUYS, RUN!!"
23:25:24  <Ammler> well, I see no reason, why not sharing bananas, since those data would be identical anyway
23:25:50  <Ammler> hmm, I could symlink it somehwere else maybe
23:26:46  <Ammler> but it isn't really doing something wrong, imo
23:27:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't really know the problem, but it's probably openttd's fault that it doesn't weed out duplicates properly... which should be no problem if the md5sums are known
23:27:54  <Rubidium> neither is OpenTTD; it finds two AIs with the exact same version (which is supposed to be an unique identifier)
23:28:19  <Rubidium> and thus it warns about that and tells you which one it has chosen
23:29:56  *** neckel [~neckel@] has joined #openttd
23:30:37  <neckel> hi there...
23:30:41  <neckel> I need a help
23:30:45  <TruePikachu> ?
23:31:15  <TruePikachu> Xrufuian: lol
23:31:20  <neckel> I'm trying to make a Goal on my server...
23:31:35  <neckel> can anyone help me
23:31:39  <TruePikachu> I don't think that Openttd has support for Goals
23:31:47  <TruePikachu> And that wasn't a question mark
23:32:02  <neckel> sorry... =D ... there it is ?
23:32:05  <Rubidium> not really. Those who have implemented goals on their server are very secretive about it, i.e. they don't share it
23:32:13  <TruePikachu>  is what you typed
23:32:18  <TruePikachu> Ctrl+^
23:32:24  <TruePikachu> Or ^^
23:32:35  <neckel> hummmm
23:32:44  <TruePikachu> The last notation looks weird
23:32:46  <neckel> it's very hard to find anything about Goals
23:32:54  <Xrufuian> IIRC, the goal servers are modified versions of OpenTTD.
23:33:05  <glx> with secret modifications
23:33:24  <Rubidium> neckel: that is because they are so secretive about what they've been doing with OpenTTD to implement goals
23:33:33  <neckel> hum...
23:33:39  <neckel> so... changing the question
23:34:08  <neckel> I want to do a command to client usage... like /help or /info
23:34:20  <neckel> <<sry about my english>>
23:34:52  <TruePikachu> ?
23:34:58  <neckel> does anyone know how can I do that?
23:35:09  <Rubidium> you either have to use a "bot" such as autopilot (or whatever the newer versions are called), or you have to modify OpenTTD's source code yourself
23:35:18  <TruePikachu> Again with Ctrl+^
23:35:28  <Rubidium> although I'm fairly certain there's some code writing involved with the bots as well
23:35:44  <TruePikachu> But what do you mean for commands for client usage?
23:35:45  <neckel> sry TruePikachu... I'm brazilian... my keyboard is ABNT...
23:36:32  <neckel> for example... I type /help on console or in the chat, and the server writes some mensage automaticaly
23:36:52  <TruePikachu> Oh, those things (i.e. /help) are IRC commands
23:37:21  <TruePikachu> OpenTTD does not parse IRC commands
23:37:28  <glx> console commands need source modification, chat commands can be done with bots
23:37:30  <neckel> I will search something about autopilot
23:37:37  <Rubidium> neckel: please ignore TruePikachu... he is extremely dumb and trolling
23:37:37  <neckel> thanks everybody anyway
23:37:41  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: TschÌß]
23:37:43  <TruePikachu> ...
23:37:50  <neckel> ok, thanks... I could see that =D
23:38:03  * TruePikachu was not trolling
23:38:22  <Xrufuian> Well, you did step beyind your knowledge.
23:38:35  <TruePikachu> I didn't really understand the question
23:38:48  <Xrufuian> Then say so!
23:38:57  <glx> and don't replt in this case
23:39:04  <glx> *reply
23:39:07  <TruePikachu> I did say so
23:39:18  <TruePikachu> 16:34 < TruePikachu> But what do you mean for commands for client usage?
23:39:19  <TruePikachu> 16:34 < TruePikachu> But what do you mean for commands for client usage?
23:39:19  <TruePikachu> 16:34 < TruePikachu> But what do you mean for commands for client usage?
23:39:20  <Rubidium> neckel: <- the bot I was talking about
23:39:33  <neckel> thanks =D
23:39:53  <TruePikachu> ^ sorry about pasting 3 times, I was trying to get a context menu, and Putty pasted each click
23:40:00  *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@] has joined #openttd
23:44:53  <Xrufuian> Might someone here know why OpenTTD is giving me a dialoge stating  ini: " out of group?
23:45:13  <TruePikachu> Xrufuian: I have no idea
23:45:38  <Zuu> Xrufuian: What happens if you rename your openttd.cfg, so that a fresh config is created?
23:45:57  <Xrufuian> Let me see...
23:46:00  <Zuu> Have you touched  hotkeys.cfg?
23:46:10  <Xrufuian> nope.
23:46:16  <TruePikachu> Zuu: Is that in 1.0.3?
23:46:24  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:46:28  <Zuu> TruePikachu: Nope, only in recent nightlies.
23:46:43  <Yexo> Xrufuian: you have a line "name = [value]" before the first "[group-name]" line in your config file
23:46:43  <TruePikachu> Oh :( Next month I guess...
23:47:06  <Yexo> TruePikachu: it won't be part of 1.0.4 either
23:47:12  <TruePikachu> O_o why?
23:47:13  <Yexo> you'll have to wait for 1.1
23:47:18  <Yexo> because it isn't a bugfix
23:47:21  <Zuu> Or you can just grab a nightly.
23:47:25  <Yexo> and not a very small feature either
23:47:30  <TruePikachu> Oh
23:47:48  * TruePikachu wonders how long it will be until 1.1 is released
23:48:05  <Yexo> look up the release dates of 0.7 and 1.0 and you can get a good estimate
23:48:06  <Zuu> Not anytime soon.
23:48:25  <Yexo> actually look at 0.6.0 too when you're at it
23:48:26  <Zuu> or what Yexo said.
23:49:16  <TruePikachu>
23:49:26  <TruePikachu> ...
23:51:06  <Xrufuian> Yexo: So the nightly isn't liking my config file leftover from 1.0.3?
23:51:43  <Yexo> Xrufuian: it'll just ignore the line "name = [value]" line that doesn't sit inside a group
23:51:52  <Yexo> it's just a notice that something is wrong with your config file
23:52:07  <Yexo> can't tell what exactly withour a copy of your config file
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23:53:04  *** neckel [~neckel@] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
23:53:05  <Ammler> usually no problem to share the cfg between nightlies and stable
23:53:30  *** Vitus [] has quit [Quit: Good bye]
23:53:53  <Yexo> it's strange if trunk gives the message bug 1.0.3 does not, I don't remember any recent changes to the config file handling (except the addition of hotkeys.cfg)
23:54:27  *** Chris_Booth [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:54:31  <Xrufuian> I'll double check with 1.0.3.
23:56:38  <TruePikachu> Xrufuian: For tommorrow, the map is going to be twice as wide
23:57:07  <TruePikachu> 1024*512 instead of 1024*256
23:59:04  <Xrufuian> I'm going to email you an alpha of the NewGRF project tonight, depending on if I get time to fix a little bug in it.

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