Log for #openttd on 17th August 2010:
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00:03:15  <TruePikachu> The map actually will be the same size as before
00:05:43  <Ammler> gute Nacht
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00:07:13  <TruePikachu> Xrufuian: I am making the map by hand, it will be hilly, and there will be big flat spots at the far ends
00:07:21  <TruePikachu> (for our main cities)
00:07:36  <TruePikachu> Each main city will use the 3x3 grid
00:07:54  <TruePikachu> And I will not manually expand either of them
00:07:58  <Xrufuian> Will it be a co-op or competition?
00:08:08  <TruePikachu> Approximatly the latter
00:08:49  <TruePikachu> We will still try to help each other out as best as we can from our own companies
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00:09:55  <Xrufuian> You ought to try an Inrfastructure Sharing game sometime..
00:10:14  * TruePikachu cannot easily apply the patch right now
00:10:46  <TruePikachu> Oh, and our map will have NO IMMOVABLES!!!
00:11:02  <TruePikachu> AND it will have the GRF that lets banks and water towers and such close down
00:11:58  <TruePikachu> (i.e. it will be possible to have a completly flat map again, with nothing on it, although it would take ages and lots of luck)
00:12:48  <Xrufuian> Yexo: The message seems to be specific to the nightly I was using. 1.0.3 and r20518 are fine with the same exact config file.
00:13:04  <TruePikachu> Xrufuian: What will you want your town be named?
00:13:15  <Yexo> Xrufuian: can you upload your openttd.cfg and hotkeys.cfg somewhere?
00:13:36  <Yexo> on, nvm
00:13:40  <Yexo> I read it wrong
00:14:01  <Yexo> most likely the nightly you got that message in used a different config file
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00:14:56  <TruePikachu> Xrufuian: What will you want your town to be named?
00:15:45  <Xrufuian> I just thought of something. I'll be right back.
00:15:54  <TruePikachu> I think that name is too long
00:19:08  <Xrufuian> Npoe, made no difference.
00:20:07  <Xrufuian> I guess whatever it was, was changed between the two revisions.
00:20:56  <Xrufuian> Chris: Name it Mojave
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00:23:31  <TruePikachu> :( you have more population
00:24:36  <Xrufuian> Heh, that's funny.
00:25:01  <Xrufuian> Mojave is sadly dieing
00:25:30  <Xrufuian> (Stupid interstate 40.)
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00:26:37  <TruePikachu> I'll put a large city (>10000 pop) at midway
00:26:45  <TruePikachu> Named Midway
00:27:16  <TruePikachu> I'll also build up space for you to plop down a good small airport in it
00:27:32  <TruePikachu> As a moneymaker
00:28:07  <Xrufuian> Sugestion: Use both NARS and UKRS.
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00:33:31  <TruePikachu> It is done
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01:00:07  <TruePikachu> Nah, too complicated
01:00:30  <TruePikachu> (for now)
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05:50:08  <TruePikachu> @seen frosch
05:50:08  <DorpsGek> TruePikachu: frosch was last seen in #openttd 12 weeks, 0 days, 9 hours, 33 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <frosch> s/D/Д/
05:50:21  <TruePikachu> O_o I wanted to thank them for the fix...
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06:45:46  <Wolf01> hello
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07:04:46  <Terkhen> good morning
07:14:04  <dihedral> morning
07:18:43  <planetmaker> moin
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07:34:52  <peter1138> hmm, is there a simple C lib for sha1?
07:35:35  <peter1138> (or is sha1 really simple anyway...)
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07:41:20  <Goulp> peter1138: seems simple :
07:41:57  <peter1138> *nod*
07:42:00  <peter1138> i found polarssl
07:42:17  <peter1138> i'll use that, as it saves having yet another copy of sha1 in my random source code
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07:43:15  <Goulp> also this lib :
07:44:45  <peter1138> hmm, maybe i won't use polarssl, it's in squeeze but not lenny. bum.
07:45:06  <peter1138> also, i'm using C, not C++ ;p
07:49:46  <Rubidium> libgcrypt?
07:51:01  <Rubidium> it's not that small though
07:53:23  <Rubidium> it's quite likely to be installed on a system though; xserver depends on it
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08:15:59  <peter1138> good enough :)
08:18:11  <peter1138> if i can find an API :s
08:18:33  <dihedral> man :-P
08:19:01  <peter1138> dihedral, don't often exist for libraries
08:19:22  <dihedral> it was more like a joke (hence :-P)
08:19:31  <peter1138> oh
08:19:32  <peter1138> "ha ha"
08:19:40  <dihedral> :-P
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08:20:26  <peter1138> the readme packaged with debian explains how to compile it
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08:24:33  <peter1138> ah ha!
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08:45:33  <peter1138> Thanks Rubidium, it's pretty simple for this task :)
08:46:13  <peter1138> also
08:46:21  <peter1138> Function: void gcry_md_close (gcry_md_hd_t h)
08:46:31  <peter1138> A NULL passed as h is ignored.
08:46:32  <peter1138> so
08:46:39  <peter1138> gcry_md_hd_t is a hidden pointer type. EVIL!
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08:53:02  <CruelCoke> 0hai. what's the linux you develop on?
08:53:29  <peter1138> 2.6.32
08:53:54  <CruelCoke> i mean, not kernel. the linux-based os
08:54:06  <dihedral> peter1138: i think he wants to know a distribution name
08:54:14  <dihedral> CruelCoke: the one you like best
08:54:26  <peter1138> and i say it's a silly question
08:54:37  * dihedral nods
08:54:37  <CruelCoke> i think you develop on either ubuntu or deb
08:54:51  <dihedral> CruelCoke: what difference does it make?
08:55:39  <CruelCoke> well, your 103 worked on Puppy Linux Jeans.
08:56:03  <CruelCoke> that's k26 or even older
08:56:47  <CruelCoke> what are the minimal sdl versions needed?
08:57:38  <CruelCoke> it's all a question of what distro OTTD is suitable for.
08:57:49  <dihedral> most likely any
08:57:52  <frosch123> version does not matter as much as the patch level of breaking, fixing, breakign again, fixing again...
08:58:42  <dihedral> CruelCoke, you mean, it's a question as to which required libraries are available in the package management
08:58:58  <dihedral> that is not a requirement to the distribution though
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08:59:43  <CruelCoke> well, Puppy main branch comes without sdl, but the "jeans" branch comes with it
09:00:26  <CruelCoke> puppy is a pendrive linux
09:01:09  * frosch123 decided against a mainboard with on-board linux
09:01:27  <dihedral> ^^
09:01:46  <dihedral> CruelCoke, any distribution you feel comfortable with, is suitable.
09:02:19  <dihedral> worst case, you need to manually add some libraries as they don't exist in the package management system the distro might use
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09:17:10  <Zuu> As long as you don't have a cripled distro without a compiler, you can always compile the libraries that you do not have + openttd from source.
09:17:22  <Zuu> Oh.. he quit
09:18:15  <dihedral> Zuu, no, he did not, he just left ^^
09:19:23  <Zuu> tsss.. Technical detail.
09:19:38  <dihedral> ^^
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09:43:04  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20522 /trunk/src/object_base.h: -Fix [FS#4041] (r20482): the wrong "delete" was called for Objects
09:47:45  <Eddi|zuHause> <-- one needs to start a contest for "who can come up with the best conspiracy theory" ;)
09:49:15  <Rubidium> multiple nuclear tests just south of Prague?
09:49:44  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20523 /trunk/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp:
09:49:44  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#4040]: Do not print a colon for AI settings with empty name.
09:49:44  <CIA-2> OpenTTD:  Please note that this is only meant for compatiblity to make settings of 'old' AIs still look nice.
09:49:44  <CIA-2> OpenTTD:  Usage of this 'compatibility feature' is not recommended, as selected lines cannot be highlighted this way as it is done for the NewGRF settings.
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09:50:06  <Rubidium> probably medium, huge, lunch break, smal, small, tiny, tiny
09:53:13  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: that would be an explanation, if it were moving circles, but in the picture 15 minutes later, they are in the same position
09:54:27  <Rubidium> oh, then they're sending out a number of wavelengths of brown noise that amplify/cancel eachother
09:54:55  <Rubidium> and that excites the water vapour in such a way they begin forming droplets
09:55:48  <frosch123> aliens communicate using low frequencies
09:56:10  <dihedral> i recall something about an eu law, wrt mangling with weather
09:56:46  <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: like the chinese did? they were trying to make rain, but instead they got two weeks of snow?
09:57:42  <dihedral> like the british once did too
09:58:00  <dihedral> but they did not get snow, they got rain
09:58:02  <dihedral> lots of rain
09:58:12  <Rubidium> and the Russian one caused rain in Pakistan and India instead?
09:58:31  <Eddi|zuHause> hahaha :)
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10:22:12  <avdg> oi :/
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11:59:22  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20524 /trunk/src/airport.cpp: -Codechange: remove old airport debug code
12:00:05  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20525 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: make Aircraft::UpdateDeltaXY more readable by removing the MKIT macro
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12:21:25  <[hta]specx> Is there a way to fastenup screenshots from complete game? I want to make a moving timelapse vid, but ctrl+g takes about 20 sec and then desyncs the game
12:22:05  <avdg> a save?
12:22:09  <Rubidium> [hta]specx: desyncs as in what error?
12:22:47  <Rubidium> "network game synchronisation lost" or "network game connection lost"?
12:22:58  * avdg gets the crazy idea to create a save and make a screenshot external
12:23:12  <[hta]specx> desync as in after the ss has been taken, it briefly shows a red error box but then returns quickly to main menu (error msg is unreadable since its displayed to short)
12:23:36  <Rubidium> [hta]specx: so it's the connection lost error
12:24:14  <Rubidium> which is due to your client not reacting for more than ~10 seconds
12:24:17  <[hta]specx> autosave to unique files, then create ss from each file
12:24:27  <[hta]specx> seems sensible solution
12:24:40  <Rubidium> and nope... there's not way to make the screenshot significantly faster
12:25:26  <Rubidium> except dumping a raw screenshot to memory first, but I given the time it takes for you the map is quite big and it probably won't fit in memory that well
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12:29:33  <dihedral> Rubidium, ./openttd -g <save> --screenshot ^^
12:30:17  <[hta]specx> and that in a script
12:31:11  <[hta]specx> so the plan is to make autosave save game each 5 seconds, then generate screenshot of each savegame then process screenshot
12:31:49  <[hta]specx> dihedral: that command is a cmdline command to create ss from savegame?
12:33:08  <dihedral> [hta]specx, nope, that was a hint for a funny idea for a commandline option
12:33:26  <dihedral> it was more to bee understood as a joke, but you could patch your client for it to do that, yes
12:33:39  <dihedral> and once you have done that, let us see the patch ^^
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12:35:25  <planetmaker> dihedral, then I rather prefer our method where the server itself creates the screenshots.
12:35:35  <planetmaker> Traffic is significantly lower, and players have to wait less
12:35:55  <dihedral> planetmaker, we are talking about giant screenshots ;-)
12:35:58  <dihedral> for a bunch of saves
12:36:04  <planetmaker> :-D
12:36:04  <dihedral> i.e. save every 5 mins
12:36:15  <dihedral> then you could script a for loop to make the screenshots
12:36:24  <[hta]specx> serialize current state (clone), bump to other thread which saves it
12:36:31  <dihedral> however, you'd probably run out of disk space, unless you save do /dev/null
12:36:33  <planetmaker> yeah... stay connected and autosave. Have a separate client process that autosave
12:36:44  <planetmaker> otherwise you'll download the map again and again
12:37:02  <planetmaker> as a client won't remain connected during giant screenshot
12:37:19  <dihedral> he experienced that one already :-D
12:37:28  <[hta]specx> with a seperate thread processing a clone of the gamestate, this can be solved theoretically?
12:38:03  <[hta]specx> question will then be how much time it takes to clone the gamestate
12:38:40  <[hta]specx> being the time to make a savegame without the disk IO
12:38:46  <planetmaker> [hta]specx, easier to just run another instance which loads the save and creates the screenshot
12:38:53  <planetmaker> nothing new there. Proven to work
12:39:27  <Rubidium> [hta]specx: enable autosave and observe the "lag" at the begin of each month. That's the time it takes to make the game state clone. The rest goes into compressing and writing the game's state
12:39:47  <[hta]specx> yea thats usually about a second
12:39:58  <planetmaker> depends upon map size ;-)
12:40:08  <[hta]specx> so true
12:40:10  <planetmaker> and vehicle count
12:40:51  <[hta]specx> but autosave replaces prev instance, doesnt it?
12:41:14  <Rubidium> not necessarily; it depends on the settings
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12:43:04  <[hta]specx> omg
12:43:21  <[hta]specx> reinstalled openttd now with opengfx
12:43:26  <[hta]specx> that mousebutton is just awesome
12:43:31  <planetmaker> hm?
12:43:34  <[hta]specx> mouseicon
12:43:43  <planetmaker> joke or honest?
12:44:10  <[hta]specx> honest!
12:44:13  <planetmaker> :-)
12:44:24  <[hta]specx> 1: its darkyellow, finally contrasts good
12:44:32  <[hta]specx> 2: it has a normal size
12:44:50  <[hta]specx> 3: it has normal orientation (so you dont have to click just 3 pixels offset
12:45:18  <dihedral> the buttons are rather big enough to be able to safely ignore 3px offset ;-)
12:45:30  <planetmaker> you should become OpenGFX' marketing manager ;-)
12:45:55  <peter1138> 3 pixel offset?
12:47:01  <[hta]specx> not the button i mean the mousecursor
12:47:21  <[hta]specx> yea, somehow I can click more accurate with new cursor
12:48:06  <[hta]specx> when not having played ottd for a while, first 50 clicks on small buttons mostly misses
12:48:11  <planetmaker> glad to hear. If I can make a guess it was Zephyris who drew it, but I'm not sure
12:48:28  <dihedral> ... what a beautiful mind ^^
12:48:42  <planetmaker> But if you have issues with opengfx, please feel free to report them :-)
12:49:12  <[hta]specx> mostly positive 'issues'
12:50:09  <planetmaker> We like to hear about those, too, of course
12:52:35  <[hta]specx> only monthly autosave... need to patch it to add more timeframes
12:52:48  <[hta]specx> (monthly/3m/6m/12m)
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12:56:53  <Rubidium> [hta]specx: huh? only monthly?
12:57:31  * Rubidium must be missing something
12:58:22  <planetmaker> [hta]specx, You can of course also express your joy by donating to the projects :-)
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13:02:36  <Eddi|zuHause> [hta]specx: there is a patch for daily/weekly autosave around
13:03:06  <Eddi|zuHause> but it's fairly trivial to do, just read through src/date.cpp
13:03:31  <Eddi|zuHause> oh... nice rain ;)
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13:09:00  <dihedral> hehe - dump every tick :-P
13:10:26  <[hta]specx> 80MB per 5 sec -> 4hour game 2880 shots * 80 -> 23GB
13:10:46  <[hta]specx> ex savegames, so add 1,2%
13:12:16  <[hta]specx> something tells me for once i wont keep the source files of a project
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13:17:47  <frosch123> hmm, if debian offers me to install kernel 2.6 or 2.6.26-2, what might they mean with 2.6?
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13:18:25  <blathijs> frosch123: I think that's a metapackage that depends on the latest 2.6 kernel
13:18:58  <frosch123> he, you have a highlight, don't you :)
13:20:41  <blathijs> actually, no, but it would be a good idea :-)
13:21:00  <blathijs> #openttd is just one of those lucky channels with a window < 20 ;-)
13:21:33  <Rubidium> blathijs, in that case: grfcodec and nforenum are released
13:21:54  <blathijs> Rubidium: You did highlight me on that, but I just haven't gotten around to it yet :-)
13:22:20  <Rubidium> ah, good :)
13:30:17  <dihedral> frosch123, metapackage for 'safe' upgrades ;-)
13:31:15  <frosch123> thanks, already picked it :)
13:35:37  <TomyLobo> frosch123 in those cases, aptitude is very informative
13:35:53  <avdg> is it theoretical with the current openttd to record every action?
13:35:58  <TomyLobo> just press enter on a package and it will show you the dependencies somewhere down
13:36:10  <frosch123> well, it is a netinst cd which asked me
13:36:21  <TomyLobo> ah
13:36:26  <TomyLobo> well that sucks ^^
13:36:43  <Rubidium> avdg: depending on what you mean by action... yes or no
13:36:53  <avdg> actions ingame
13:36:56  <Rubidium> if it includes mouse movement and the likes, then no
13:37:07  <avdg> nope thats too far :p
13:37:16  <Rubidium> if it is only the commands, then yes
13:37:43  <avdg> so stuff like recorders should be possible
13:38:09  <frosch123> if you want to replay you are tied to a specific version
13:39:43  <avdg> I'm actually wondered how the tutorials worked in the classic ttd
13:40:14  <frosch123> afaik recorded mousemovement, which breaks if the buttons get rearranged
13:40:31  <avdg> lol
13:40:43  <Rubidium> changing some settings broke the tutorials IIRC
13:40:54  <glx> frosch123: and if resolution is different...
13:41:39  <avdg> well, if you know the location to put your mouse on, then it will still work :p
13:41:48  <glx> RTL can have nice effects too I think
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13:49:45  <dihedral> if you can get the position of the button and move the mouse to coordinates you get back.....
13:49:52  <dihedral> however - who wants tutorials?
13:50:07  <dihedral> besides - the wiki is full of tutorials
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13:52:35  <avdg> well, I experience that many new players are too lazy for the wiki
13:52:59  <frosch123> but the wiki tuturial is hard to understand... it uses original graphics while most newbies use ogfx :p
13:55:34  <avdg> well, create a tutorial then without mouse :p
13:55:49  <avdg> if you want to record actions
13:56:06  <avdg> flashy icons
13:57:28  <dihedral> avdg, do you remember people playing c&c or starcraft scrolling the map with the mouse all the time?
13:57:48  <avdg> no idea
13:57:55  <dihedral> once you see someone doing that, you do not want to play those games against them, as they are way too slow
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13:58:03  <dihedral> same goes with being 'lazy' reading docs
13:58:25  <dihedral> if someone wants to play a game and cannot spend some time understanding the game and how to play, they are not worth investing the time into them
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13:58:47  <avdg> yeah, I know that problem
13:59:44  <avdg> the current Idea that I have is a window with short tutorials
13:59:54  <avdg> showing the players how to build a simple network
14:01:30  <avdg> but I'm just explowering openttd internal atm
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14:04:32  <Ammler> frosch123: the german tut is with ogfx :-)
14:04:54  <Ammler> but is there really such a bit diff?
14:05:00  <Ammler> big*
14:09:34  <dihedral> Ammler, he was making fun ;-)
14:09:38  <dihedral> and not of ogfx ;-)
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14:10:45  <Ammler> well, we changed the info toolbar button because of that already
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14:15:23  <Ammler> frosch123: how again should my Action7 look for the leftside signals?
14:16:06  <frosch123> dihedral: at least two complained about "the tuturial looks totally different, i do not know what to do"
14:16:28  <frosch123> Ammler: the way it is most useless
14:17:22  <frosch123> iirc signals are only on the right, if both "signals on driving side" and "driving on the right" is set
14:17:35  <frosch123> in the three other cases they are on the left
14:17:52  <dihedral> frosch123, even more a reason to not include any screenshots in the tutorial :-P
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14:18:26  <Ammler> semaphores look indeed strange on leftside traffic
14:18:48  <Ammler> train drives through
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14:19:50  <Ammler> hmm, no
14:20:00  <avdg> hmm I found another flickering button
14:20:02  <Ammler> that is on rightside traffic, is that right?
14:20:36  <Ammler> the flags need to go _in_ tracks?
14:20:45  * avdg makes a bugreport
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14:23:40  <avdg> hmm created already a patch to open a dropdown with a scroll (half year ago)
14:23:48  <avdg>[0]=&sev[0]=&pri[0]=&due[0]=&reported[0]=&cat[0]=&status[0]=open&percent[0]=&opened=&dev=&closed=&duedatefrom=&duedateto=&changedfrom=&changedto=&openedfrom=&openedto=&closedfrom=&closedto=
14:24:28  <frosch123> Ammler: the flags point away from the track
14:26:25  <avdg> k, bugreport:
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14:29:07  <Belugas> hello
14:37:21  <dihedral> hello Belugas
14:37:54  <Belugas> dihedral!
14:39:32  <avdg> hmm I can even conclude that almost every button is buggy
14:47:12  <dihedral> how come?
14:47:26  <avdg> keep the button pressed
14:47:39  <avdg> I don't know if thats intented
14:48:00  <dihedral> i am not going to enter the game to see what happens when i try to keep a button pressed, perhaps you'd like to express what happens
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14:48:31  <avdg> the button goes up, even if you keep the button pressed
14:48:48  <avdg> I made already a bugreport for the scroll buttons
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14:59:22  <thvdburgt> docs/landscape_grid.html says
14:59:41  <thvdburgt> : Six attributes hold the information about a tile , shouldn't this be 8?
15:00:17  <thvdburgt> as landscape.html says: "Eight attributes (counting "type_height") hold the informations about a tile."
15:00:27  <SmatZ> avdg: about your bugreport (glitchy scrollbar buttons), I noticed it few days ago and tried to find the revision when it changed, but it changed quite long time ago
15:00:41  <avdg> yeah
15:00:57  <avdg> I'm making a comment about the buttons too
15:01:09  <avdg> because I think the whole event call 'smells'
15:01:20  <SmatZ> it's just interesting we both noticed in few days apart from each other after a long time when it appeared
15:01:51  <avdg> I detected it only a houre ago :p
15:01:55  <SmatZ> :)
15:01:59  <avdg> and I found nothing on the bugreport
15:02:22  <avdg> only that feature that I wanted to implement :p
15:02:39  <SmatZ> :)
15:03:25  <avdg> k, posted
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15:36:18  <Ammler> <-- does type 4 also support bit7 (offset) or is that only 14,15,16?
15:36:52  <Rubidium> it doesn't
15:37:58  <Ammler> then I can't just replace semaphores
15:38:31  <Ammler> hmm
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16:49:46  <TomyLobo> small bug:
16:50:41  <TomyLobo> trains that are very old go service even if breakdowns are disabled and "Disable servicing when breakdowns set to none" is set to on
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16:54:35  <SmatZ> TomyLobo: do you have autoreplace set for them?
16:54:44  <SmatZ> or autorenew enabled
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17:15:22  <TomyLobo> SmatZ nope
17:15:31  <TomyLobo> that's the funny thing about it ^^
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17:15:49  <VVG> So, without actually understating, what's what in code, i'm trying to update the virtual time system from improved timetables patch to current revision and i got stuck. Timetable, when using date as A/D values, behaves ok, but when i convert it to virtual time, A/D times kinda changes randomly and i can't figure why. :(
17:16:50  *** Muxy [] has quit [Quit: PACKET_CLIENT_QUIT]
17:17:02  <Rubidium> wrong conversion factor?
17:19:18  <Yexo> TomyLobo: please create a report at and include the savegame
17:21:43  <VVG> it converts, but when showing HHMM values, the times updates too often, even if vehicle is just staying. Is that due to conversion being wrong?
17:22:45  <Rubidium> VVG: that sounds like the most credible conclusion I can make given the information
17:24:05  <VVG> I recall you mentioned you have mercurial queues from original author. Can you share them? It's hard to figure what parts i want from one big diff.
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17:26:57  <Rubidium>
17:27:41  <VVG> thx
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17:30:41  <Terkhen> stupid msys
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17:40:00  <TomyLobo> odd, now they even go servicing after i replaced all of them
17:40:22  <Eddi|zuHause> you are doing something wrong
17:40:36  <TomyLobo> but what?
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17:43:51  <TruePikachu> @seen xrufuian
17:43:51  <DorpsGek> TruePikachu: xrufuian was last seen in #openttd 17 hours, 15 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <Xrufuian> Sugestion: Use both NARS and UKRS.
17:44:09  <TruePikachu> O_o I didn't do that. Oh well...
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17:46:08  <TomyLobo> are going into the depot for no apparent reason. might they just be looking for an alternate route to avoid the train in front of them?
17:46:16  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20526 /trunk/src/lang/ (16 files): (log message trimmed)
17:46:16  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:46:16  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belarusian - 7 changes by KorneySan
17:46:16  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 1 changes by pda1573
17:46:16  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 5 changes by VoyagerOne
17:46:18  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: czech - 8 changes by marek995
17:46:18  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 4 changes by habell
17:46:20  <TomyLobo>
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18:03:01  <TruePikachu> Quick question - is there a way to telnet or SSH into the OpenTTD console?
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18:03:14  <TruePikachu> (repeat for VVG) Quick question - is there a way to telnet or SSH into the OpenTTD console?
18:03:53  <Yexo> not directly, but if you start openttd from eg screen you can open screen and use that after logging in again
18:04:06  <VVG> (answer for TruePickachu) no idea
18:04:17  <TruePikachu> No, I mean the in-game console
18:04:48  <frosch123> usually you would use "rcon"
18:05:25  <TomyLobo> TruePikachu there is a dedicated server
18:05:27  <VVG> I checked the mq extension on global settings in TortoiseHG but the patch queue button in repository explorer still greyed out :(
18:05:33  <TomyLobo> why do you need the client console?
18:10:33  <TruePikachu> Never mind, I was going to use it so I don't have to walk across the house to the server to move xrufuian to his own company
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18:10:52  <TruePikachu> I wanted to do it from this SSHing terminal
18:12:39  <TomyLobo> haha laziness
18:13:09  <avdg> lets look at the facts
18:13:25  <avdg> open openttd, open console -> access
18:13:39  <avdg> but you have a big window
18:13:44  <avdg> intro window
18:13:48  <TruePikachu> Well, I don't need it any more
18:13:50  <avdg> and you are not using it at all
18:14:05  <TruePikachu> I'm over at the OpenTTD computer now
18:14:19  <TruePikachu> Xrufuian had joined the game
18:14:28  <avdg> ?
18:14:35  <TruePikachu> I was waiting for him
18:14:53  <avdg> lol, I thought it was a game message
18:15:00  <TruePikachu> Oh, lol
18:15:24  * TruePikachu has joined the game hosted at #openttd on an IRC server :P
18:22:59  <SpComb> is the "Units of cargo delivered" in units / month?
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18:28:23  <andythenorth> evening
18:28:34  <Wolf01> hi
18:28:45  <avdg> hi
18:28:52  <Wolf01> hello Zuu
18:29:16  <Zuu> Hello Wolf01
18:29:19  <Belugas> evening? not yet, but hello anyway
18:29:27  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: context?
18:29:49  <Wolf01> graphs maybe
18:30:22  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: i can guess dozens of these things... that's why i ask.
18:31:05  <Wolf01> ah, I referred only to the string as appear in game :P
18:31:54  <Eddi|zuHause> the graphs are usually in quartals, not months
18:32:39  <Wolf01> so only SpComb could answer :P
18:35:31  <Wolf01> would be cool to have time-(de)compression in graphs associated to window stretching, when you enlarge the window you can see all the months, when you make the window tight you see quarters/semesters/full years
18:38:22  <Alberth> hello Belugas
18:39:02  <Belugas> hello to you too Alberth :)
18:41:14  <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: the graph
18:41:31  <SpComb> so it's units / quarter?
18:41:36  <SpComb> the legend was a bit unclear
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19:36:07  <Belugas> note: don't try to run a debit transaction if pinpad has no DUKPT key injected...
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19:38:10  <Alberth> for some time, I read 'DUPKEY' :)
19:39:30  <Belugas> quite not exactly the same thing :D
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19:52:57  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20527 /trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: move the flood code and remove some redundant checks
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20:28:31  <Wolf01> 'night
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20:37:28  <SmatZ> hmm running simple python programs under valgrind gives tons of errors
20:37:43  <SmatZ> and of course, the behaviour of the script changes...
20:41:04  <frosch123> hmm, i guess your name must be smatz if you run python in valgrind :)
20:42:21  <Alberth> I'd expect the malloc system to be intertwined with the reference system, and some objects are indeed never freed
20:42:30  <Alberth> such as None, and the small integers
20:42:50  <Alberth> and the imported modules :)
20:43:44  <SmatZ> frosch123: hehe :)
20:46:35  <SmatZ> Alberth: I don't know what object is free'd there (yet), but it irritates me :)
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21:13:45  <darkomen> Hi all.
21:13:51  <SmatZ> hello
21:14:00  <darkomen> SmatZ, can i PM you?
21:16:01  <SmatZ> darkomen: yes, but I don't know if I will be helpful in any way :)
21:16:15  <SmatZ> if you have a question, just ask here, someone might answer
21:16:23  <darkomen> then me, i know that you will ;)
21:20:50  *** GT [] has joined #openttd
21:22:50  <GT>  The grebs ( seemed to have stopped logging #openttd, anyone know an alternative logger?
21:23:20  <andythenorth>
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21:24:18  <GT> andy, thnx
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21:46:53  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20528 /trunk/src/saveload/afterload.cpp: -Fix: in old savegames aircraft can have an invalid state
21:48:27  <planetmaker> hm, can I, as player, decide to disband my company?
21:48:39  <VVG> This is what i have after trying to update the virtual time system from ITiM patch. The conversion of arrival/departure values is broken and i don't understand why. advice will be appreciated
21:49:30  <planetmaker> I think not... right?
21:49:49  <Yexo> planetmaker: no
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21:50:00  <Yexo> that is why some goalservers have a !resetme command
21:50:07  <planetmaker> ok
21:50:10  <VVG> HHMM version from there is what feels right to me, but it isnt :(
21:51:10  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20529 /trunk/src/ (aircraft_cmd.cpp station_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: simplify UpdateAirplanesOnNewStation by removing code for situations that don't happen
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22:01:30  <Ammler> planetmaker: you can sell every vehicle and it will go, if the autoclean setting is made
22:02:01  <Ammler> or reset the pw does also on many servers reset the company
22:04:22  <Rubidium> VVG: rapid share is by any means not a rapid way of downloading such files
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22:11:32  <VVG> advice on something better than rapidshare is welcome too :)
22:13:48  <TomyLobo> Yexo that sounds like cutting down on airport security for cost efficiency :)
22:14:06  <Yexo> TomyLobo: it isn't
22:14:45  <TomyLobo> not one of those "what could possibly go wrong" situations? :)
22:15:19  <Yexo> no, it's a "this is impossible to happen" situation
22:15:37  <TomyLobo> plane below the map etc?
22:15:48  <Yexo> it's like if I ask you a number between 1 and 5, check that the number is really between 1 and 5 and then later on do special things when you said 10
22:15:58  <Yexo> but I _known_ you didn't say 10 because I already checked for that
22:16:20  <TomyLobo> ah, that kind
22:16:48  <Rubidium> VVG: don't see something horribly wrong, but then it's quite huge and uses some horrid code
22:17:00  <Yexo> or in this case: special code to update an aircraft state when you remove an airport and then rebuild it while an aircraft was taking off, but it's impossible to remove an airport while an aircraft is taking off
22:17:28  <TomyLobo> but that'd be fun!
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22:17:52  <TomyLobo> almost as fun as removing it while it's landing
22:17:58  <TomyLobo> fireworks \o/
22:18:02  <Yexo> another situation that is no longer possible :)
22:18:05  <Yexo> it was in old versions though
22:18:11  <Yexo> at least in 0.4
22:18:23  <Yexo> that's what r20528 was for
22:18:33  <TomyLobo> sounds like something to assert though, just in case :)
22:18:40  <Yexo> there is an assert :)
22:18:40  <TomyLobo> asserts are free in release mode, anyway
22:23:02  <TomyLobo> assert(false);
22:26:14  <VVG> Rubidium: When A/D times are set to show as dates, they are pretty much set and stay the same as long as needed. When they are shown in virtual time, they change back and forth, and too often
22:27:15  <Rubidium> maybe the smaller granularity makes it do that?
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22:33:40  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20530 /trunk/src/vehicle_cmd.cpp: -Cleanup (r13507): p2 bit 0 for CmdBUildRailVehicle is no longer valid so don't use it
22:34:04  <VVG> Rubidium: It behaves ok in rev17268, which is the rev diff i copied those bits of code from is made against.
22:34:43  <Yexo> that should've been r13508
22:37:36  <VVG> Rubidium: i don't quite get what you mean by granularity here
22:39:37  <Rubidium> if you show the speed (in real numbers) of something in km/h it would change much less often than when you show it in mm/h, because the granularity (preciseness) of the latter is much higher
22:40:25  <TomyLobo> how many bytes is a tile?
22:43:15  <Rubidium> too
22:43:56  <Rubidium> though make an educated guess on the source code :)
22:46:34  <TomyLobo> sizeof(Tile)? :)
22:48:09  <VVG> Rubidium: Well, i don't know how to check if that's is what causing misbehavior :(
22:50:08  <Rubidium> VVG: neither do I
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23:11:28  <Jacob1029Old> Hmm,slightly large channel :|
23:13:27  <Jacob1029Old> Anyway,I've been playing openttd for a while now. Just play online with mates and got the hang of it,I do great intill people start using airports,then I loose because when i try to use planes they dont stay profitable.
23:13:36  <Jacob1029Old> Whats the best way to make and keep a plane profitable?
23:14:45  <avdg> long distance and having the best between speed and load I guess
23:15:07  <avdg> speed -> more profitable because you're cargo reach faster
23:15:21  <avdg> bigger load -> more load, more money
23:15:53  <Jacob1029Old> Well,i put 737's and 747's on the greatest length routes possible.And they do well for a year,but then just fail.
23:16:07  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20531 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Codechange: unify quite a bit of the vehicle building commands
23:16:23  <avdg> also the runningcost are important
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23:17:18  <Rubidium> station ratings are important as well (and so is full loading at the busiest side)
23:17:19  <Jacob1029Old> Yup,others are doing the same at pretty much the same distance with the same planes but they get 100K a flight:S
23:19:40  <Yexo> do you use full load orders?
23:21:15  <Jacob1029Old> Yes
23:22:40  <Yexo> do you have a savegame (or currently active network game) showing the problem?
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23:23:16  <Jacob1029Old> Im on mp atm
23:23:35  <Jacob1029Old> I called in all planes, and got 2 737s doing cross country hops.
23:23:42  <Jacob1029Old> Their staying in profit since i built a new airport
23:23:55  <Yexo> which server are you playing on?
23:24:33  <Jacob1029Old> RoROpenTTD
23:24:44  <Jacob1029Old> I think buddy set the pass as yourmom
23:24:53  <Jacob1029Old> My company pass is transport
23:25:18  <Yexo> version r19891M, right?
23:25:29  <planetmaker> :-D
23:25:30  <Yexo> not going to join a modified server, too much work
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23:25:55  <Jacob1029Old> Yes that version
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23:40:51  <Jacob1029Old> Hmm
23:40:54  <Jacob1029Old> seemed to of fixed it
23:41:04  <Jacob1029Old> 1.4 mill on a 747 half way through the year
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23:55:35  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20532 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: unify selling of vehicles a bit

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