Log for #openttd on 31st August 2010:
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01:18:14  <glevans2> is there a how-to page/link for setting up a dedicated server on Debian 5?
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03:30:39  <planetmaker> good morning
03:36:52  <planetmaker> glevans2: there's hardly any page which describes setting up a server
03:37:28  <planetmaker> in principle you only need to call openttd with the correct parameters
03:37:33  <planetmaker> openttd -D
03:37:45  <planetmaker> and you're set, if you have enabled the proper ports
03:37:46  <planetmaker> @ports
03:37:47  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
03:37:49  <planetmaker> ^
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04:42:17  <__ln__> wtf, Mezzo-Mix® now available in finland.
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04:50:19  <planetmaker> yippieh :-P No need to mix coke and orange lemonade by hand anymore ;-)
04:50:36  <planetmaker> hello __ln__ :-)
04:52:56  <__ln__> hello :)
04:54:33  <__ln__> "Mezzo Mix is a product of the Coca-Cola Company sold only in Germany, Switzerland, Austria and Finland." according to a wikipedia
04:55:21  <__ln__> and that's strange because finns have no history of mixing coke and orange lemonade
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04:59:26  <planetmaker> he. I'm not sure we have a history of mixing it either
04:59:41  <planetmaker> But it's available here since ever I remember
05:03:52  <Noldo> __ln__: finns have a history of drinkin everything?
05:06:57  <planetmaker> :-D
05:07:13  <planetmaker> Noldo: I don't think so. C2H5OH needs to be involved, I think
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05:08:05  <Noldo> for professionals -OH is enough
05:08:35  <planetmaker> hm... CH3OH is something I usually try to avoid...
05:08:49  <planetmaker> at least in my body
05:10:31  <Noldo> me too
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05:11:29  <Noldo> though the treatment for methanol poisoning is quite... interesting
05:11:38  <planetmaker> :-D indeed
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06:56:50  <Terkhen> good morning
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07:27:57  <Wolf01> 'morning
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08:08:04  <dihedral> morning ^^
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09:15:14  <SmatZ> morning
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09:17:02  <Ammler> nooning
09:19:43  <planetmaker> :-) nooning, too
09:23:05  <SmatZ> :)
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11:24:28  <Eddi|zuHause> afternooning!
11:24:52  <Ammler> :-)
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11:32:45  <TrueBrain> the most 5 hour long interesting conversation EVAH
11:35:27  <Eddi|zuHause> and you spoilt it!
11:36:52  <TrueBrain> no, that you did
11:36:57  <TrueBrain> fair is fair
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12:18:53  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20705 /trunk/src/ (network/network_chat_gui.cpp window.cpp): -Fix: graphic glitch when switching to a different-sized font while the chat message box was visible
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13:09:07  <Belugas> hello
13:09:20  <avdg> hi
13:10:18  <__ln__> hello sir
13:11:02  <Goulp> Hello Mr Caviar in a plane
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13:33:04  <elias> who wants to play?
13:35:10  <Belugas> floosh floosh
13:35:52  <Belugas> ho... i want to play.  but the questionwould have been better asked if added : Who wants to play and who can play?
13:36:07  <planetmaker> hey ho :-)
13:37:03  <elias> lol
13:37:11  <planetmaker> elias, there are many people who do play. There are many servers around, just join one
13:37:38  <elias> indeed, but i just want a new game
13:37:56  <planetmaker> My bet is there are servers with (nearly) new games
13:38:04  <elias> an d others can't see my hosted games
13:38:27  <elias> (nearly) <- ^^
13:38:36  <planetmaker> what does it matter?
13:38:48  <planetmaker> whether one or two or five years passed?
13:38:49  <Combuster> elias: are you configured for LAN games?
13:38:50  <elias> a clean field :)
13:39:05  <Combuster> 5 years won't fill a field that bad
13:39:05  <elias> i can see internet games
13:39:06  <planetmaker> And why should others then find your game so more interesting?
13:39:56  <elias> hm.. thats not the point. i just want a clean field. yes its unnormal i know ^^
13:40:17  <planetmaker> but... then... that will change, if you want others to play there, too
13:40:26  <planetmaker> That's two things which contradict eachother IMHO
13:40:50  <elias> its not that bad ei :)
13:41:11  <planetmaker> then joining a nearly new server is the same
13:41:23  <planetmaker> many servers don't even have players
13:41:34  <planetmaker> So they ARE new in respect to being untouched
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13:41:47  <elias> ok.. but last question. why do they dont see my hosted game?
13:41:59  <planetmaker> Do you know they don't?
13:42:26  <planetmaker> Did you wait 5 minutes and check for your server at
13:42:29  <elias> i think so yes... cause i tried out yesterday with a friedn
13:42:40  <elias> oh nice ... thx allot
13:42:55  <planetmaker> besides...
13:42:59  <planetmaker> @ports
13:42:59  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
13:43:56  <planetmaker> cable modems very often have a router function, too. They need configuration to open those ports bi-directionally; Usual is only out-bound
13:44:03  <planetmaker> And nothing is forwarded
13:45:12  <elias> thanks for help pm
13:46:18  <planetmaker> you're welcome
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14:10:34  <VVG> hello
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14:11:40  <VVG> what's the use of "assert(fract < DAY_TICKS);" ? I don't get why it's < and not >.
14:12:15  <SmatZ> fract has to be < DAY_TICKS
14:12:18  <SmatZ> not == nor >
14:12:28  <planetmaker> VVG, assert = make sure that
14:12:48  <planetmaker> (and fail otherwise)
14:13:00  <SmatZ> have a look what "assert" means in English :)
14:13:15  <VVG> ahha, that means i pass fract that's bigger than day_ticks?
14:13:38  <planetmaker> then it will catch it and abort
14:14:22  <SmatZ> silly glibc and its inline asm :-/ it breaks compilation with intel asm...
14:15:50  <planetmaker> he
14:16:22  <SmatZ> __asm__ ("rorw , %w0" : "=r" (__v) : "0" (__x) : "cc");
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14:37:04  <VVG>
14:37:46  <ccfreak2k> VVG, fract must be smaller than DAY_TICKS or it dies with assertion failed.
14:37:48  <VVG> i don't get it. It works as intened when it's days or ticks, the default behavior. And  no reaction at all in case of hhmm. I don't even see a button being clicked
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14:38:32  <VVG> ccfreak2k: atleast one case of fract being bigger than day_ticks i fixed already
14:38:50  <SmatZ> how can gcc even generate that code? at -O2...
14:39:50  <VVG> ccfreak2k: though, if that was said without looking at the link i posted, then thanks, though i figured that out already :)
14:40:27  <ccfreak2k> VVG, I'm just telling you exactly what that line means completely out of the context in which it's used.
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14:44:15  <michi_cc> SmatZ: What was the input? And what comes after? The use of CL might be because it somehow wants to avoid a partial register stall (especially bad on P4).
14:44:39  <ccfreak2k> I thought pipe stalls were a feature on the Pentium 4.
14:45:50  <SmatZ> michi_cc: the problem is it fails to propagate constants... and even then, testl %ecx, %ecx; setne %cl; testb %cl, %cl is weird
14:46:20  <SmatZ> input is glibc memset()
14:46:26  <michi_cc> Oh, so it tests on constants? That is bad :)
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14:49:03  <SmatZ> I am receiving many false warnings when compiling OTTD, so I wanted to have a look...
14:49:18  <SmatZ> this scared me :-p
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14:49:36  <SmatZ> when compiling with LTO, that is
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14:53:38  <fjb> Moin
14:57:40  <planetmaker> <-- Froix is right, in OpenTTD 1.0.3 the snowyness of depots is not updated, if the snow goes away, but only if it comes
14:57:47  <planetmaker> In trunk that issue does not exist.
14:57:57  <planetmaker> Bug or missing and not back-ported feature?
14:58:48  <Rubidium> planetmaker: since when is that issue fixed in trunk?
14:59:31  <planetmaker> I have no idea. I know that frosch some weeks ago fiddled with things; Depots also got a build date
14:59:34  <Rubidium> VVG: if (p2 = 1) is... uhm... always true
14:59:54  <Rubidium> VVG: same with if (p2 = -1)
15:00:03  <planetmaker> I just tested current one - and found it a non-issue in trunk. Then before replying "works for me" I just tested in stable
15:00:11  <ccfreak2k> Rubidium, because it's an assignment, right?
15:00:25  <Rubidium> yup
15:00:27  <planetmaker> But I shall try to find out
15:00:59  <Rubidium> 6793#SF...
15:01:17  <Rubidium> not even remembering his own bug reports :)
15:01:52  <planetmaker> you talk to me?
15:02:27  <VVG> gah, thanks!
15:02:48  <planetmaker> yes :-)
15:03:05  <planetmaker> I'm backward today ;-) - makes reading backward difficult
15:03:12  <VVG> and the proper equivalence test was just a few lines away to notice :(
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15:04:48  <planetmaker> Rubidium, will you backport that?
15:05:03  <planetmaker> or shall I tell the person to play nightlies?
15:06:32  <ccfreak2k> planetmaker, better than opposite day.
15:09:22  <Rubidium> @commit 20702
15:09:23  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: Commit by rubidium :: r20702 /tags/1.0.4-RC1 (5 files in 4 dirs) (2010-08-30 19:03:31 UTC)
15:09:24  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: -Release: 1.0.4-RC1
15:10:12  <planetmaker> you mean... I should read the changelog? :-)
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15:11:54  <Rubidium> or test it
15:12:02  <planetmaker> I guess I should update my 'stable' to 'testing' :-)
15:12:14  <Rubidium> but reading the changelog would probably suffice
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15:15:36  <planetmaker> :-) Indeed, I definitely don't remember all my bug reports. Too many for that :-P
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15:19:00  <[hta]specx> I had this traincrash
15:19:11  <[hta]specx> I built a single line with two stations
15:19:45  <[hta]specx> when train 1 arrived at drop station, I built second train on the line, ignoring the signals
15:20:35  <[hta]specx> when train 1 arrived back at load station, i built a line around dropstation such that train 1 would go around station into depot
15:20:46  <[hta]specx> train 2 was still on loadstation
15:21:25  <planetmaker> and still ignoring signals
15:21:42  <planetmaker> ignore signals and sign for crashes ;-)
15:21:42  <[hta]specx> then, about 15 tiles before loadstation, I put PBS signals: 1 in front of train 2 facing train 2, 1 signal right before th depot facing train 1, and a signal bfore the split
15:22:18  <[hta]specx> the returning train then simply drove into station, as opposed to drive around it via the depot
15:22:41  <[hta]specx> with one-way signals this always works flawlessly
15:22:58  <[hta]specx> and afaik has always worked flawlessly, iirc since 052
15:23:07  <[hta]specx> (maybe even 045, not sure)
15:23:54  <[hta]specx>
15:24:18  <[hta]specx> is this behaviour which *should* happen, or is it enough to put on FS?
15:25:35  <planetmaker> path signals never worked before 0.7
15:25:41  <planetmaker> simply due to non-existance
15:25:42  <[hta]specx> oneway did
15:25:42  <VVG> signal somewhere on the left - is it a block signal?
15:26:11  <[hta]specx> I'm saying one-way signals worked always, not PBS
15:26:16  <[hta]specx> left signal is pbs
15:27:20  <planetmaker> yes. But path signals facing away from a train don't interrupt its reservation. How should they, it's no place to stop anyway
15:28:13  <[hta]specx> shouldnt reservation be reevaluated after line config has changed?
15:29:03  <[hta]specx> just like one-way block signals
15:29:05  <planetmaker> not if the path remains accessible
15:29:20  <planetmaker> one-way block signals make the path un-passable
15:29:23  <[hta]specx> it wasnt accessible
15:29:35  <[hta]specx> since there was a 2nd train waiting
15:30:11  <planetmaker> but it was reserved before there were signals... and even if... it was told to ignore them
15:30:15  <planetmaker> (or the other one)
15:30:18  <[hta]specx> (here we might have some trouble with the definition of accessible)
15:30:54  <planetmaker> well, the answer is simple: don't ignore signals
15:31:07  <planetmaker> or don't complain about train crashes :-)
15:31:22  <[hta]specx> well its just that I can use oneway signals
15:31:32  <[hta]specx> which isnt a problem
15:31:46  <[hta]specx> but using all PBS saves a few clicks everytime i make a new line
15:31:58  <[hta]specx> in 4 hoiur game, this adds up
15:32:16  <planetmaker> hm. How do path signals save time?
15:32:29  <[hta]specx> simply use all path signals
15:32:38  <[hta]specx> instead of combined block/path
15:32:51  <[hta]specx> no need to switch between block/path
15:33:06  <roboboy> gnightish
15:33:12  <planetmaker> g'night roboboy
15:33:39  <[hta]specx> also, its less errorprone
15:33:53  <[hta]specx> except trains crashing ;)
15:34:41  <[hta]specx> for instance, no need to make specialized signalling in front of stations (just ctrl+drag signal and complet line is signalled)
15:35:27  <[hta]specx> or when making LLRR lines, no need to apply pbs signals at junctions/joins correct (this can take quite some work)
15:38:38  <VVG> now that i have read the log, did i understand it right that drive around track and signals were placed after 2nd train made a reservation to station?
15:39:10  <[hta]specx> no
15:39:24  <[hta]specx> stepwise xplanation:
15:40:46  <[hta]specx> 1. built load station, 2. built depot~connecting depot to station, 3. buy train, put it onto load station, 4. built line, 5. built drop station, 6. set orders correct, 7. train 1 entrs drop station generating income)
15:41:47  <[hta]specx> 8. buy second train, 9. second train ignores signals and gos onto load station, 10. train 1 is about 15 tiles before entering load station (wher train 2 waits)
15:42:13  <[hta]specx> 11. track around station is built, 12. 3x PBS signal is added, 13. crash
15:42:57  <[hta]specx> the signals are added _before_ train1 arrives at the split
15:43:09  <VVG> at step 9, did train 1 reserved its path into station?
15:43:28  <[hta]specx> no idea
15:43:32  <[hta]specx> I can test
15:45:19  <VVG> back of 2way pbs is not a safe waiting spot, so train coming from the left will reserve its path right into station. But if station is reserved train at depot should stay in, failing to reserve a path onto station
15:45:56  <VVG> hm
15:46:02  <[hta]specx> when testing
15:46:05  <VVG> am i right with this assumption?
15:46:44  <[hta]specx> train2 reserves track _in the station_ as if the station has a signal every block
15:47:09  <[hta]specx> wait
15:47:14  <VVG> signals somewhere on the left, out of the image is a standart block signal?
15:47:18  <[hta]specx> thre is a oneway pbs and twoway pbs?
15:47:36  <VVG> oneway pbs, last in signal gui, does not allow passing from behind
15:47:39  <VVG> two way does
15:48:03  <[hta]specx> you learn somehting new everyday at ottd
15:48:16  <[hta]specx> that should solve it i guess.... will test now
15:51:23  <[hta]specx>  that works
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15:52:02  <[hta]specx> problem solved
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15:52:39  <[hta]specx> VVG	signals somewhere on the left, out of the image is a standart block signal? --> oneway PBS
15:52:48  <[hta]specx> in th image, there are three oneway pbs signals
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15:53:50  <[hta]specx> I will use onewaypbs signals now, this should enable me to use them exclusively over the complete network
15:55:50  <VVG> may be ctrl+ placement of pbs signals should be the same as with presignals :)
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16:14:06  <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: what do you mean?
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16:18:28  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20706 /trunk/src/object_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r20664): land slope check wasn't called when it should be called
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16:24:37  <VVG> Eddi|zuHause: nothing really, that was more like a joke comment
16:25:02  <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: then i clearly don't understand the joke...
16:26:46  <VVG> if ctrl+ drag presignals, you get standart signals placed
16:27:25  <Eddi|zuHause> that would be silly...
16:30:04  <VVG> i myself would welcome it, since i use presignals and pbs only in places where i need them, not every where on track
16:31:11  <VVG> though, now that i think a bit more, it won't make a difference for me anyway...
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16:35:56  <lordaro> question: what's with the regression AI-thing?
16:36:40  <lordaro> and what was done here:
16:37:11  <frosch123> read up on "regression tests"
16:38:12  <lordaro> which i will find where?
16:38:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i
16:38:25  <Eddi|zuHause> 'd start with google
16:38:52  <frosch123> then pick the wiki article which is likely on the first page
16:40:31  <lordaro> i knew that...
16:40:31  <lordaro> ok, i didn't think it would be something i'd find on google :-D
16:40:43  <lordaro> reading now
16:42:27  <Terkhen> what's not in google?
16:42:39  <Terkhen> besides articles I need to read
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16:50:34  <Belugas> lol!!
16:50:44  <Belugas> Voulez-vous Continuer [O/N]
16:50:48  <[hta]specx> cars
16:50:52  <Belugas> answer O
16:50:54  <Belugas> fail
16:50:55  <[hta]specx> havent been able to download them yet
16:51:02  <Belugas> you actually have to answer Y
16:51:03  <planetmaker> hehe @ Belugas
16:51:11  <planetmaker> what? lool
16:51:15  <Belugas> yeah
16:51:23  <Belugas> the text was coorectly tranwaclated,
16:51:26  <planetmaker> yoi?
16:51:26  <Belugas> not the mechanism
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16:55:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i have had similar experiences with "J"
16:55:21  <Eddi|zuHause> don't remember which program, though
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16:55:48  <Terkhen> me too, but answering "S" caused the program to end
16:56:03  <Terkhen> it was some package manager; I don't remember which one
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17:03:57  <Lakie> Rubidium: for the object colour callback, should I call this just for on map drawing or in the preview too?
17:09:52  <planetmaker> I guess your choice :-)
17:10:01  *** Yexo_ is now known as Yexo
17:10:03  <planetmaker> I think it's not done for vehicles and alike
17:10:16  * Lakie was goin for consistancy.
17:10:26  <Lakie> Well, the only thing that uses the same is houses iirc
17:10:33  <planetmaker> sure?
17:10:33  <Lakie> Which off course has no previews...
17:10:37  <planetmaker> :-)
17:10:39  <planetmaker> true
17:10:40  <Lakie> cb1e?
17:11:21  <Lakie> Which leaves the question of if the ui should also call it. :)
17:11:55  <Lakie> Ah, ok, not quite 1e as it made out in specs
17:12:31  *** TheMask96 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:14:57  <Lakie> Hmm... ok, I guess I should implement it at construction time, same as description and set the colour, using it over owner colours if the callback flag is set, is the way it reads.
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17:17:37  <Rubidium> Lakie: I'm not calling it for drawing the preview
17:18:05  <Lakie> Ok, does the above sound correct for how it should behave?
17:18:21  <Rubidium> that's a good question :)
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17:19:56  <Lakie> I understand cb 1E is called (always) just before drawing, we would effectively be caching them according to the wiki description
17:21:41  <Ammler> why do translators translate the language string?
17:21:50  <Rubidium> Lakie: yes, caching... and that's good :)
17:21:58  <Ammler> how do I now find back to English from Belarusian?
17:22:54  <Ammler> ah, I were in the town names menu :-)
17:22:59  <planetmaker> Ammler: By choosing English again :-)
17:23:33  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: only the own language name is translated
17:23:46  <Ammler> yeah, I were in the wrong menu :-P
17:25:03  * Lakie shall assume that if the grf isn't loaded showing company colours is the best idea
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17:27:02  <Belugas> [12:55] <Terkhen> me too, but answering "S" caused the program to end   <-- yeah, exactly :) in my case, it was sudo get-apt
17:27:33  <Ammler> it does switch the font ingame, if you chose non-latin language, but it isn't possible to switch that manually, for example if I use english but a russian town set?
17:27:51  <lordaro> @Lakie (and whoever else knows)
17:27:51  <lordaro> question: how do you get it to display like that? with the (for me) 3 *** at the beginning and no ':' after the name
17:27:51  <lordaro> </stupid-question>
17:28:07  <Rubidium> Ammler: yes... in the config file, or whenever you make a good GUI for that
17:28:11  <Belugas> i've loaded EasyPeasy on my son's Acer Aspire One.  Nice machine, but stupidely slow on WinXP
17:28:13  <Lakie> /me ?
17:28:30  <Ammler> Rubidium: a action14 var?
17:29:01  <Rubidium> Ammler: that brings trouble pretty quickly
17:29:14  <Rubidium> as there are damn few fonts that support all languages
17:29:37  <Ammler> how do you do it with the languages?
17:29:37  <Lakie> Heh, or supports enough of those landguages
17:29:38  <planetmaker> hm. Multi-font support probably is a bad idea, right?
17:29:52  <Rubidium> and... none of the OSes seem to have functionality to say that a font must support X Y Z
17:29:53  <planetmaker> Lakie: they're all supported. But not at once
17:29:54  <Ammler> maybe we can do it similar with the action14
17:29:55  <lordaro> Lakie: yes, like that
17:30:15  <Lakie> Well, you don't get many 'full' unicode fonts
17:30:28  <planetmaker> nope
17:30:35  <planetmaker> hm... is there a gpl-ed one?
17:30:40  * Lakie has only seen maybe one or two which supposedly support the full rang
17:31:29  <Ammler> but, but, openttd does already switch font, if I switch to belarusian
17:31:29  <Lakie> Also, to answer the question, Ammler
17:31:33  *** Fast2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:31:39  <Lakie> Sometimes people do not understand english
17:31:44  *** Fast2_ is now known as Fast2
17:31:55  <Lakie> Or may not know their language name in english
17:32:31  <Ammler> Lakie: yeah, all fine, I had troubles, because I were in the town names menu and thought, that are the languages :-)
17:32:35  <Lakie> As such, language strings are usually translated in all programs (sometimes with a bracketed english name)
17:32:48  <Rubidium> Ammler: please tell me how to figure out what font to use which supports the Chinese Town Name set when playing with Arabic as language
17:33:05  <planetmaker> yeah. It's also stupid to change to a language, if you don't even know how it is spellt in its own language ;-)
17:33:09  <Rubidium> your 30 seconds thinking time start now!
17:33:26  <planetmaker> only 30? :-(
17:33:34  <Lakie> Um, I think ms word swaps fonts and stuff but thats such a messy solution.
17:33:36  <planetmaker> I need longer for this search I started
17:33:57  <planetmaker> @calc 24 * 86400
17:33:57  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 2073600
17:34:02  <planetmaker> ^ give me that many
17:34:10  <Ammler> Rubidium: well, here the problem starts already with english :-)
17:34:20  <Lakie> not 24*3600?
17:34:38  <Ammler> but also if the set would support glyph sprites, if someone would use arabic font, woudl that work?
17:34:38  <Rubidium> Lakie: nah, he needs more than 3 weeks for it
17:34:53  <Lakie> Heh, fair enough.
17:35:21  <Lakie> I don't think I've seen an implicit solution
17:35:25  <Rubidium> Arabic does very fancy things with it's fonts, so... I've got no clue and don't intend to find out
17:35:52  <Lakie> Maybe gdi where it does it behind the scenes, but no non-windows core code I've seen
17:36:35  <Lakie> Becides isn't the scaling different for latin/asian/arabic fonts in openttd?
17:36:36  <Rubidium> and yes, solving the problem for Cyrillic languages might be relatively easy, but... that's only a few languages. Non-latin non-cyrillic is a way bigger group which needs way way way more glyps
17:36:40  <Rubidium> +h
17:37:09  <Lakie> Like 21k kanjis...
17:38:29  <Ammler> where btw. do people talk belarusian?
17:38:39  <Rubidium> Belarus
17:40:43  <planetmaker> Lakie: I meant 7*86400. But... two weeks more are not bad either
17:40:55  <Lakie> Heh
17:41:43  <planetmaker> Ammler: Weißrussland
17:42:23  <Lakie> This file would be so much shorter in C++...
17:45:47  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20707 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
17:45:47  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:47  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belarusian - 22 changes by KorneySan
17:45:47  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: german - 6 changes by planetmaker
17:45:47  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: korean - 2 changes by junho2813
17:45:48  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: portuguese - 21 changes by SupSuper
17:45:48  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: serbian - 10 changes by etran
17:49:16  <lordaro> *runs update script and says 'woo!' :)
17:49:22  <planetmaker> :-D We should add the free debian font archive
17:49:26  <planetmaker> it's only 94 MB
17:49:29  <planetmaker> :-P
17:49:29  <peter1138> update script, eh?
17:50:27  <lordaro> this one ->
17:52:15  <lordaro> edit: no ignore the update script, it's just me presuming just because the translations are in, it gets updated instantly (if on forums i would currently write:  :oops: )
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18:00:25  <Eddi|zuHause> <Ammler> where btw. do people talk belarusian? <-- in "Weißrussland", of course
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18:01:06  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: ja :-P
18:01:25  <Eddi|zuHause> probably the country with the most democracy-deficite in europe...
18:02:08  <Ammler> there are only 206 towns there...
18:02:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i only know one...
18:02:54  <Eddi|zuHause> Minsk...
18:03:26  <Ammler> yeah, top on the list: МіМск
18:04:01  *** KouDy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:04:04  <Eddi|zuHause> well, that's kind of the obvious choice ;)
18:06:24  <planetmaker> hm... Hallo in FreeSerif ㅇ읎냐디;ㅁ니ㅣㅣينسممميه dkskd 库執林䞚务员влОЎвшу <-- if that shows all characters... we have Chinese, Korean, Arabic, Cyrillic and Latin in one...
18:06:54  <Eddi|zuHause> all those do display here...
18:07:12  <planetmaker> here, too
18:07:24  <Eddi|zuHause> but that doesn't mean they are all in one font, the program might do automatic fallbacks...
18:07:40  <planetmaker> so there *should* be one(?) font... hm
18:08:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i use DejaVu Sans Mono
18:08:48  <Eddi|zuHause> but at least the mono part does fail for the non-latin characters
18:09:36  <Ammler> planetmaker: now you are going to make grf with it?
18:09:56  <planetmaker> with what? A font?
18:10:05  <Ammler> with FreeSerif
18:10:17  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: you need a way to get this font to all people...
18:10:26  <planetmaker> Yes, I know
18:10:47  <Eddi|zuHause> and also, you have to check how it behaves with small font...
18:10:48  <VVG> aren't there some free unicode fonts suitable for distributing with ottd?
18:10:57  <planetmaker> The font file "FreeSerif" was 1.5MB
18:11:08  <planetmaker> it's a ttf, so it should scale
18:11:17  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds very small for a font...
18:11:55  <Lakie> Yeah, the japanese all kanji one MS ships is around 9mb ttf...
18:12:38  <Lakie> But probably has some surpluss in in that)
18:14:01  <Ammler> and grf would be bigger?
18:14:20  <planetmaker> I've no idea how to go for a font newgrf
18:14:29  <Ammler> check opengfx extra :-)
18:14:37  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
18:14:51  <Ammler> and tyconnez has one
18:15:03  <Ammler> but that doesn't work with belarusian
18:15:46  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think it's feasible to do arabic with sprite fonts...
18:16:09  <Eddi|zuHause> they do very fancy stuff with interconnecting the letters
18:16:10  <planetmaker> it probably is. But a pain
18:16:44  <Eddi|zuHause> in my fonts directory, the biggest font is "arialuni.ttf" with 24MB
18:16:53  <dihedral> :-(
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18:17:44  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, not possible with ttf fonts, in openttd, then
18:17:56  <peter1138> we draw each letter individually
18:18:13  <VVG> looks like i managed to make date cheat to work properly with virtual time and also fallback 24h on max_year+1
18:18:16  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: exactly.
18:18:17  <peter1138> basically making up a sprite font as it goes
18:18:35  <Lakie> Does that cause issues for possible combines?
18:19:08  <VVG> Is there a console cmd to set date?
18:19:09  <peter1138> no language file uses anything like that, so...
18:19:26  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:19:31  <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: why would there be?
18:20:19  * peter1138 runs time make on his laptop
18:20:26  <peter1138> 1.6 GHz P4 power
18:21:00  <peter1138> fan's at full speed... noisy bugger
18:21:14  <Ammler> VVG: set date sounds "cheatish"
18:21:24  <VVG> Eddi|zuHause for example, to omit a bunch of clicks using date cheat
18:22:18  <VVG> okay
18:22:34  <VVG> what might go wrong, if v->date_of_last_service is something like -3 years?
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18:28:29  <peter1138> up to rail_cmd... :s
18:29:04  <planetmaker> hm. OpenTTD does not like truetype?
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18:29:23  <peter1138> planetmaker?
18:29:35  <VVG> peter1138: is that "a lot of things"?
18:29:50  <peter1138> VVG, i was talking to myself :)
18:30:08  <planetmaker> "Unable to use 'unifont' for medium font, FreeType reported error 0x1, using sprite font instead"
18:30:15  <VVG> nvm then ;)
18:31:17  <planetmaker> hm... for an installed font I don't have to give a path, right?
18:31:27  <peter1138> error 0x1
18:31:28  <peter1138> nice :D
18:31:48  <planetmaker> hm?
18:31:52  <peter1138> freetype errors
18:35:42  <dihedral> VVG, test it!!
18:37:09  <VVG>
18:37:25  <peter1138> oh, it finished
18:37:44  <dihedral> VVG, aint gonna look at the patch ;-)
18:37:45  <peter1138> 12 minutes 43 :s
18:37:48  <VVG> Can someone take a look and say if it all looks ok? It compiles and runs and even looks like it does its job :)
18:38:23  <dihedral> VVG: it's up to the person who writes the patch, to test it, and make sure that things it has an influence on function correctly
18:40:54  <VVG> well, date cheat skips time properly, at max year it loops too
18:41:19  <dihedral> i have no idea what you are trying to do
18:42:50  <Eddi|zuHause> is that my line or the page that is extremely slow?
18:43:02  <Eddi|zuHause> might want to use a more lightweight paste service
18:43:22  <VVG> looks fast enough for me
18:43:44  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, for people with a 100mbit line, everything looks fast...
18:44:01  <dihedral> 2Mbit/s here :-P
18:44:13  <VVG> 4 here
18:44:33  <Terkhen> 1 :/
18:44:45  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, dial up?
18:44:46  <dihedral> :-P
18:45:07  <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: feels like it, at least...
18:45:34  <dihedral> :-P
18:47:28  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, it's less than yours...
18:49:38  <Ammler> more than mine :-P
18:49:52  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, not at uni currently?
18:50:05  <Ammler> no, he is zuHause
18:50:50  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: even with 100mbit stuff is slow
18:50:52  <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: why would i be at uni during semester break?
18:50:56  <Rubidium> like windowsupdate
18:51:15  <Rubidium> never got that above 1MiB/s
18:51:30  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: WT3 has fucked up itself again
18:51:42  <TrueBrain> stom van hem
18:51:48  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: in this case Slovak
18:52:01  <TrueBrain> will look at it tomorrow
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18:56:21  <TrueBrain> is it morning already?
18:56:22  <TrueBrain> good
18:56:24  <TrueBrain> fixed
18:57:00  <planetmaker> :-)
18:57:30  <frosch123> microsleep is dangerious
18:57:53  <Alberth> frightening how fast a day goes here
18:58:18  <planetmaker> Alberth: you're just moving too fast... what is a second for you, is a day for him ;-)
18:58:37  <planetmaker> hm... or vice versa
18:58:42  <planetmaker> relative anyway
19:02:14  <Alberth> 'relatively'... hmm, didn't a scientist had a theory about that? :p
19:03:45  <lordaro> i am reminded of 'Hammy' (is that right?) in Over The Hedge.... :)
19:07:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't watch that...
19:07:36  <Eddi|zuHause> always sounded like a madagascar-ripoff to me ;)
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19:14:27  <lordaro> here: sorry about low quality, its the best i could find
19:19:14  *** tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:20:52  <VVG> hm, english.txt uses plane spaces instead of tabs?
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19:21:20  <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: use tabs only ever at the beginning of the line
19:21:37  <Eddi|zuHause> it's in the code style
19:21:39  <Alberth> otherwise you never get a nicely straight line of ":"
19:23:25  <Eddi|zuHause> very off topic: http://www.jahrhundertlÃŒ [german]
19:25:18  <VVG> got it
19:35:13  *** enr1x [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:38:57  <Rubidium> does anyone know a strace equivalent for Windows that isn't StraceNT? Basically one that works with Windows 7?
19:50:05  <avdg> :) now I see how many people <3 openttd (looks at (dutch only))
19:52:34  *** Adambean [] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing]
19:53:43  <VVG> and how many is that? For us non dutch people?
19:54:22  <avdg> a lot :p
19:56:53  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: reads quite socialistic
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19:57:28  <andythenorth> evening
19:57:56  <frosch123> hihi andy
20:00:28  *** lordaro [] has left #openttd []
20:03:42  *** Beklugas [~belugas@] has joined #openttd
20:03:56  <dihedral> Rubidium, is there nothing in cygwin? i guess not, eh?
20:04:01  * andythenorth reads some mb posts in NARS thread
20:04:25  * andythenorth considers childish replu
20:04:28  <andythenorth> reply /s
20:04:58  * planetmaker gives a cookie to andythenorth
20:05:21  * andythenorth succumbs
20:05:24  * planetmaker also adds a cold beer
20:05:34  <SmatZ> beer ! :)
20:05:46  <dihedral> that's what i was thinking
20:05:49  <andythenorth> but is that a realistic number of beers?
20:05:54  *** Belugas [~belugas@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:06:07  <andythenorth> ^ belugas went for beer too
20:06:13  <SmatZ> :)
20:06:44  <planetmaker> :-)
20:06:48  <planetmaker> amazing
20:07:17  <andythenorth> my new sandpit isn't universally liked :(
20:07:33  <Beklugas> if only...
20:07:39  <Beklugas> ho fuck...
20:07:53  *** Beklugas is now known as Belugas
20:09:19  <Belugas> andythenorth, don't bother about those who don't like your wrk.  there are always some who can't appreciate anything
20:09:28  <Belugas> yu like it?  cool.  leave it as such
20:09:35  *** yorick [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:09:39  <andythenorth> I just saw this guy talk...
20:09:40  <Belugas> unless it's really crap
20:10:11  <andythenorth> I'd explain more of what he said, but I need to go and skim read some more stuff :P
20:12:46  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i am more opposed to the gravel pit...
20:12:57  <andythenorth> por quoi?
20:13:01  <Eddi|zuHause> pikka's approach to that looks much better
20:13:31  <Eddi|zuHause> the whole concept that gravel is taken from a lake...
20:13:45  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I should google some stuff for you :P
20:13:58  <Eddi|zuHause> in my understanding, gravel is broken stone, while sand is washed stone
20:14:13  <andythenorth> I could do a quarry, but to make it slope aware, I need to draw and code 16 * 8 tiles to get a basic layout
20:14:27  <andythenorth> I might get to that, but this recolor is somewhat....quicker :)
20:15:02  <Eddi|zuHause> it just feels wrong whenever i see it...
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20:15:16  <andythenorth> wait till the clay pit is also in the nightly, then it will be worse :P
20:15:30  <andythenorth> same sprites, different colour :)
20:17:23  <Eddi|zuHause> MB has his very own opinion about clay...
20:17:46  <planetmaker> is there something he does *not* have his own?
20:18:13  <Eddi|zuHause> it basically goes like: "clay was never transported anywhere. the brick works was built at the source of the clay"
20:18:54  <andythenorth> he's kind of right
20:18:59  <andythenorth> what transported it?
20:19:07  <andythenorth> (to the brickworks)
20:19:09  <frosch123> heqs
20:19:19  <andythenorth> case closed :P
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20:19:50  <andythenorth> my clay pit also produces china clay :)
20:19:52  <Terkhen> :)
20:19:55  <andythenorth> goes to paper mills
20:20:09  <planetmaker> :-)
20:20:14  <planetmaker> is there a pottery?
20:20:22  <andythenorth> might be
20:20:26  <planetmaker> :-)
20:20:26  <andythenorth> more likely a brick works
20:20:41  <planetmaker> hm... municipal construction yard comes again...
20:20:45  <andythenorth> indeed
20:20:50  <planetmaker> should be in ttrs4
20:20:52  <planetmaker> :-D
20:20:54  <andythenorth> it probably will end up in FIRS somehow
20:22:07  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: some day I have to face up to drawing an iron ore mine.  If I do that as open pit mine (not deep mine), then I can recolor for a better gravel quarry
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20:30:58  <stagger> hey guys
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20:31:56  <stagger> is it just me or is the download links for latest stable broken?
20:32:31  <Rubidium> could you be a bit more specific?
20:32:47  <Rubidium> as it works for me
20:32:59  <stagger> using the download libnks on i get a 'Not Found' error
20:33:13  <Belugas> download 1.0.3 works
20:33:31  <Rubidium> stagger: what URL do you have when you get the not found error?
20:33:35  <Belugas> download trunk works
20:33:36  <stagger> strange ..
20:33:40  <stagger>
20:33:45  <Eddi|zuHause> might be a mirror acting up
20:33:55  <Rubidium> that works fine for me
20:34:00  <Belugas> download 1.0.4 rc1 works
20:34:19  <Belugas> works for me too
20:34:20  <stagger> i tried nightly and others too, didnt work either ... but i guess it IS just me
20:34:34  <Rubidium> maybe some firewall blocking stuff?
20:34:34  <Eddi|zuHause> that link works for me as well
20:34:35  <Belugas> i'd be tempted to say the same thing
20:34:49  <Rubidium> like executables (stuff ending with .exe)
20:35:13  <stagger> doubt it, not a problem usually
20:35:22  <stagger> but i'll try and figure it out ...
20:35:43  <Eddi|zuHause> stagger: after reading the responses here, it points towards a local issue
20:35:48  <stagger> just wanted to let you know, in case that it wasnt just me ;)
20:35:56  <planetmaker> did I ever mention that I find the invention and implementation of action14 a great idea? Well, it is! :-)
20:37:38  <frosch123> it also creates quite somy myths :p
20:37:45  <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: "3. When reaching max year time will fall back 24h instead of 1 year if timetable unit is HHMM or HHMMSS." <-- that sounds horribly wrong w.r.t. multiplayer
20:37:55  <frosch123> now it is even said, old ttdp would crash on it
20:38:17  <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: virtual time should be a purely client side setting, as such it may not ever affect gameplay
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20:45:48  <andythenorth> brr
20:46:42  <andythenorth> what exactly is 'half-baked' about engine pool
20:46:51  * andythenorth doesn't understand, and should do better things
20:47:08  <frosch123> everything else is better :)
20:47:37  <andythenorth> "for some definitions of 'everything'"
20:47:54  <planetmaker> :-D
20:48:20  <VVG> Eddi|zuHause: multiplayer side of the game totally escaped my mind when i was doing the max year thingie :(
20:48:22  <planetmaker> I think it became irational at some point
20:49:25  <planetmaker> frosch123: but it is my understanding wrong, that ttdp crashes on action14? Or do I mix up something there?
20:50:26  <VVG> hm, w.r.t. is an abbreviation of with respect to?
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20:50:37  <Eddi|zuHause> with regards to
20:50:52  <andythenorth> or with respect to
20:50:58  <andythenorth> about the same in meaning
20:51:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not a native speaker... that's what i learned...
20:51:32  <VVG> a few years after i saw it first time i finally managed to decode it. Accidentaly.
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20:53:57  <stagger1> could one of you try and give me a link to a different mirror?
20:54:15  <frosch123> planetmaker: it just disabled the grf
20:54:30  <planetmaker> oh
20:55:52  <frosch123> ttdp checks two things during the first loading phase: 1st that the grf only contains actions it knows, and 2nd that only certain actions appear before the action8
20:56:11  <frosch123> both checks fail for action14 before they learnt it
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21:01:19  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:03:19  <frosch123> night
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21:03:32  * andythenorth ponders bed
21:03:34  <andythenorth> good night
21:03:57  <planetmaker> g'night andythenorth
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22:08:31  <Terkhen> good night
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22:24:19  <SmatZ> good night, Terkhen
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