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Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 04:28:46 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-216-203.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:56:04 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74A77.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:29 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74613.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:03:28 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.224] has joined #openttd 05:16:17 <Terkhen> good morning 05:16:24 *** keoz [~keikoz@418pc.wohnheimg.uni-frankfurt.de] has quit [Quit: keoz] 05:18:06 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.50.108] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:20:51 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 05:22:32 *** Yexo [~Yexo@153-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Quit: bye] 05:25:57 <Eddi|zuHause> great news everybody 05:26:00 <Eddi|zuHause> "include some curves in tunnels, it cant be that hard to implement it." 05:29:15 *** Yexo [~Yexo@153-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 05:30:32 <Terkhen> the screenshot is what really convinced me 05:32:40 <Terkhen> if he can place some rails to show what he wants, it can't be that hard to implement... we only have to follow the picture 05:35:47 <Eddi|zuHause> well, technically, what he requested was diagonal tunnels, with a bit of "custom tunnel heads" 05:36:47 <Eddi|zuHause> which might be feasible to implement, but it's certainly not "easy" 05:45:42 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 05:53:00 *** TomyLobo [~foo@port-212-202-171-176.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 05:55:43 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:13:16 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20820 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Codechange: remove two more contants related to the height of the main toolbar 06:14:05 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: ptr_] 06:27:13 *** Joni- [~Joni-@80.220.0.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:32:23 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:33:23 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5ad9c34c.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:38:05 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 06:38:12 <__ln__> it's sad that implementing something that seemingly simple is that hard. 06:43:51 *** madgerm [~madgerm@i59F5FB1E.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 06:55:37 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 07:00:51 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:00:51 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 07:03:25 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 07:21:21 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC440A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:37:08 *** zodttd2 [~me@user-0c90n12.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:37:09 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:37:39 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 07:38:46 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D427.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:48:30 *** madgerm [~madgerm@i59F5FB1E.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:01:59 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 08:12:51 *** TomyLobo [~foo@port-212-202-171-176.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 08:15:41 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.224] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:22:38 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-67-91.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:28:05 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe83de00-38.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:29:37 <beyre83> Ribbit 08:29:38 <beyre83> :p 08:46:57 *** avdg [~Adium@94-227-100-192.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:59:42 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:00:12 *** keoz [~keikoz@418pc.wohnheimg.uni-frankfurt.de] has joined #openttd 09:01:09 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 09:06:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i only know rabbits 09:08:16 <Rubidium> you don't know that subsidiary of BT? 09:10:00 * robotboy pokes his head in 09:15:06 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 09:19:01 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:19:28 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 09:20:43 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:21:50 <Eddi|zuHause> "for the first time microsoft's search engine 'bing' has more users than yahoo" 09:21:58 <Eddi|zuHause> "you know how i learned this?" 09:22:01 <Eddi|zuHause> "from google" 09:22:08 <SmatZ> :) 09:22:54 *** keoz [~keikoz@418pc.wohnheimg.uni-frankfurt.de] has quit [Quit: keoz] 09:23:06 <robotboy> lol 09:23:24 <robotboy> and yahoo uses bing 09:27:12 <Terkhen> :D 09:30:20 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc3465.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:38:41 <peter1138> So, uh, does any one Yahoo! these days? 09:38:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.169.159] has joined #openttd 09:39:13 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:40:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i have neither heard of anybody "yahoo"-ing nor "bing"-ing... 09:40:38 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 09:44:43 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.201.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:45:54 <fonsinchen> "bing-ing" might be related to "binge drinking" 09:47:55 <beyre83> pmsl 09:48:21 * beyre83 used to be a altavista person, then when google launched i switched to google 09:48:22 <beyre83> :p 09:48:41 <Eddi|zuHause> does that even still exist? 09:49:12 * SmatZ was using altavista as well 09:49:38 <SmatZ> http://www.altavista.com/ seems to exist 09:49:53 <beyre83> mmm 09:49:59 <beyre83> fucking yahoo bought em 09:50:00 <beyre83> :S 09:50:10 <beyre83> http://uk.altavista.com/about/ 09:50:12 <beyre83> :s 09:50:21 <beyre83> read about them 09:50:42 <SmatZ> I thought MS did.. 09:50:53 <beyre83> read the bottom 09:50:57 <beyre83> it says yahoo 09:50:59 <beyre83> :p 09:52:08 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host105-234-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:52:13 <beyre83> so yea the still exist, but doubt many ppl use em anymore 09:52:27 <Wolf01> hello 09:52:30 <beyre83> tho my faher likes useing "ask" 09:52:34 <beyre83> for some strange reason 09:52:40 <beyre83> father* 09:55:22 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-77-86-68-28.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 09:55:29 *** rTypo [rTypo@pc54.clicknet.iasi.rdsnet.ro] has joined #openttd 09:56:30 <robotboy> meh to ask 09:57:28 *** rTypo [rTypo@pc54.clicknet.iasi.rdsnet.ro] has quit [] 09:57:37 *** rTypo [rTypo@pc54.clicknet.iasi.rdsnet.ro] has joined #openttd 10:01:32 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:06:30 *** GecK [Geck@pro75-3-82-229-184-63.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 10:06:33 <GecK> hi 10:07:47 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:09:19 <Eddi|zuHause> what the hell is an "ask"? 10:09:42 <roboboy> A search engine 10:10:02 <roboboy> formerly known as Ask Jeeves 10:10:25 <Eddi|zuHause> who?!? 10:11:50 <roboboy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ask.com 10:14:43 <Eddi|zuHause> "where "Jeeves" is the name of the "gentleman's personal gentleman", or valet, fetching answers to any question asked. The character was based on Jeeves, Bertie Wooster's fictional valet from the works of P. G. Wodehouse." <-- seriously... who?!? 10:17:10 <__ln__> Bertie Wooster aka Gregory House, M.D. 10:17:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i never watched house :p 10:17:51 <__ln__> you should 10:17:58 <VVG> hello 10:20:32 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc3465.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:30:19 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 10:38:21 *** wollollo [~martin@host86-175-29-208.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #openttd 10:47:48 <VVG> i triggered an assert by loading a savegame made with firs 0.3 without the actual firs grf :(. Is the triggered assert enough reason to file a crash report even though it's completely my fault that i messed up grfs that much and ignored a few red warnings? 10:48:33 <planetmaker> it's your fault, if you load a firs 0.3 game with firs 0.4 10:48:37 <SmatZ> it's completely your fault 10:48:59 <SmatZ> especially that "ignored a few red warnings" 10:51:17 <VVG> i'm not asking whose fault it is, i already know it 10:52:13 <Eddi|zuHause> gnah... i have this (presumable) graphics driver bug that causes segfault in memcpy when using compressed textures, which displays when making diplomatic contact in civ4 :( 10:52:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i had patched my wine to circumvent it, but now it reappeared after updating :( 10:52:40 <SmatZ> VVG: if you know it's your fault, don't open a bugreport :) 10:53:23 <blathijs> SmatZ: OTOH, it's also a common guideline tha a program should never be able to assert or segfault, no matter how big an idiot the user is ;-) 10:53:29 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 10:54:58 <Rubidium> blathijs: we can do that, but that will get a hell of a lot complaints that OpenTTD is to strict when it comes to loading savegames with missing NewGRFs 10:55:34 <blathijs> Rubidium: Huh, what? 10:55:36 *** snorre [~snorre@c692BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:56:37 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 10:56:51 <SmatZ> user is warned the game might crash, but he ignores the warning 10:56:55 <Rubidium> blathijs: prevent lots of asserts and segfaults if the use is at fault 10:56:59 <VVG> that's what thorn me on this issue, whether the stupidity amount of actions leading to a crash should be considered before reporting an actual crash :) 10:57:04 <SmatZ> if the game refused to load that save at all, the crash would be prevented 10:57:08 <Rubidium> by not allowing to load savegames that are missing some NewGRFs 10:57:27 <Rubidium> will kill pretty much most crashes-after-ignoring-the-red-warning 10:57:40 <blathijs> Ah, I see 10:59:36 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.10.87.89] has joined #openttd 11:00:50 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:01:18 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 11:01:18 <VVG> by any chance, anyone have a trunnk savegame with lots of timetabled vehicles with different order setups and willing to share it? 11:01:43 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:02:14 <peter1138> store a copy of every grf in the save game ;) 11:02:39 <VVG> that's evil! 11:03:59 <VVG> i just cleaned up my openttd folder which grew up to 300mb big. 100mb of saves and 50mb of grfs were deleted. And i only had about 20 saves i think. 11:04:22 <SmatZ> hehe :) 11:04:24 <VVG> and 15 autosaves i've not mentioned :( 11:04:48 <SmatZ> you probably need only pseudo-sprites 11:04:58 <SmatZ> +size of other sprites 11:05:08 <SmatZ> it's not a bad idea :) 11:05:13 * Rubidium has "only" 1.1 GiB with NewGRFs, scenarios, AIs and saves 11:05:27 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D427.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:05:29 <Rubidium> and a mere 5.0 GiB of checkouts 11:05:34 <SmatZ> :-) 11:06:07 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc3465.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:06:13 <planetmaker> VVG, no real need to clean 50MB of grfs, is there? 11:06:18 <planetmaker> Never throw them away ;-) 11:06:42 <planetmaker> you saved now disk space worth... 5 cent and spent... how long to trouble-shoot? 11:06:57 <VVG> some of the were absolutely useless, some, like firs 0.3 not so :( 11:07:20 <planetmaker> sorting through them is not worth the trouble 11:07:22 <VVG> problem is in my case, i have limited space on c drive. very limited 11:07:42 <planetmaker> the problem is the wrong OS which doesn't allow symlinks ;-) 11:08:04 * roboboy likes WIndows 7 for it's symlinks 11:08:16 <roboboy> all my grfs are on a server 11:08:22 <VVG> that's stretching it too far :) 11:08:38 <Rubidium> did I mention the 5 installed GCCs, including a self-compiled trunk (yay 3.3 GiB checkout), 3 versions of MSVC, ICC and.. oh and two other GCCs (DOS cross-compile and MinGW) 11:09:08 <roboboy> well except the ones that my DOS installs of (O)TT(D(P)) 11:09:24 <SmatZ> Rubidium: I got 15GiB for checkouts, and I have to delete binaries very often :-/ 11:09:41 <Rubidium> oh, not to forget openwatcom and mingw cross-compiler 11:10:29 <roboboy> when my internet speed goes back up, I might try and setup djgpp on windows to try and compile OpenTTD for DOS 11:16:08 <VVG> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-gb/sysinternals/bb896768.aspx :) 11:17:56 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 11:20:18 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc3465.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:21:23 *** Joni- [~Joni-@80.220.0.41] has joined #openttd 11:22:18 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:22:18 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 11:23:53 <Eddi|zuHause> 0009:trace:d3d_surface:surface_download_data (0x1e9676e0) : Calling glGetCompressedTexImageARB level 8, format 0x1908, type 0x1401, data 0x1e9670c0. 11:23:57 <Eddi|zuHause> 0009:trace:seh:raise_exception code=c0000005 flags=0 addr=0xb7d53776 ip=b7d53776 tid=0009 11:36:21 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF820E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:41:45 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.184.160] has joined #openttd 11:47:12 <Eddi|zuHause> why did nobody ever get the idea to feed "tail" the number of lines to skip from the beginning of the file? 11:47:57 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: because that's something sed can do? 11:48:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, when i can tell it "tail -n 1000", why can't i tell it e.g. "tail -n -34029895"? 11:49:02 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.169.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:49:25 <Eddi|zuHause> where "34029895" is the "interesting" line that "grep -n" told me... 11:49:44 <Eddi|zuHause> now i have to make the expensive calculation of how many lines the file really has 11:50:50 *** Uresu [~Wes@5ad16f54.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 11:51:40 <Eddi|zuHause> how would you do that with sed? 11:51:48 <Eddi|zuHause> "show me line 34029895 to the end of the file"? 11:55:08 <Ammler> tail -n `total lines - yourline` 11:57:25 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc3465.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:59:27 *** VVG [~sdfkhksd@85.249.0.40] has quit [] 12:00:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: i said, getting "total lines" is an expensive operation... 12:01:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: and i believe you forgot $[] 12:01:40 <Ammler> tail would need to do that anyway, 12:01:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: no, why? 12:02:22 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: sed '1,10d' ? 12:02:39 <SmatZ> to delete first 10 lines 12:02:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: loop { if (linenum < parameter) continue; print line } 12:02:57 <SmatZ> (or is it 1-10?) 12:03:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: no total number needed 12:04:37 *** VVG [~sdfkhksd@85.249.0.40] has joined #openttd 12:05:05 <SmatZ> using sed for that might be overkill 12:05:10 <SmatZ> but at least it's not awk :p 12:05:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: even normal "tail" doesn't need that number, it can instead use a round-robin buffer, and give out the content of that buffer on encountering eof 12:05:16 <planetmaker> :-D 12:05:32 <SmatZ> you can write that script yourself, anyway 12:05:52 <Ammler> isn't reading the whole file the "expensive part"? 12:05:56 <SmatZ> while read LINE; if [ n -gt 10 ]; then echo $LINE ... 12:06:00 *** Uresu [~Wes@5ad16f54.bb.sky.com] has left #openttd [Konversation terminated!] 12:06:42 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: yes, but reading file once is easier than reading file twice 12:07:14 <SmatZ> especially when the file is huge and you can stream output to another program 12:07:22 * SmatZ is doing that quite often lately 12:07:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: especially if the file doesn't fit in the cache 12:07:50 <SmatZ> the other process can start working when it sooner, not when whole 1,7GB file is read 12:08:01 <SmatZ> "working when it sooner" wut 12:08:19 <Ammler> :-) 12:10:56 <Ammler> and sed 1-10d wouldn't read the whole file? 12:11:01 <VVG> vc++ 2010 installer is evil, it wants to install a bunch of stuff and doesn't let me specify where i want all of it to go :( 12:13:14 <Ammler> wc -l is quite fast also on big files 12:13:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: reading a 3GB file over and over again doesn't qualify as "fast"... 12:14:05 <Ammler> why over and over again? 12:14:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: grep reads the file, wc reads the file, tail reads the file, ...? 12:14:36 <Ammler> does tail do that? 12:14:52 <planetmaker> it has to 12:14:56 <Eddi|zuHause> all these tools need to jump from \n to \n 12:15:01 <Ammler> shouldn't that only read the end 12:15:02 <Eddi|zuHause> that can't be done without reading 12:15:24 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, how can you jump from \n to \n w/o reading?! 12:15:42 <planetmaker> uhm... can != can't :-P 12:15:45 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: parse error? 12:15:49 <planetmaker> yes 12:16:14 <Ammler> yes, but tail does read back, I would assume 12:16:24 <Ammler> and not the whole file 12:16:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think it does 12:16:57 <Eddi|zuHause> that would fail on streams etc. 12:18:10 <Ammler> tail messages > /dev/null is 3 times faste as cat messages > /dev/null 12:18:13 <planetmaker> I guess it could differ there 12:18:30 <SmatZ> [14:10:56] <Ammler> and sed 1-10d wouldn't read the whole file? <== 'sed' is 'stream editor' 12:18:55 <SmatZ> [14:14:56] <Eddi|zuHause> all these tools need to jump from \n to \n <== afaik, tail just stores read data in memory 12:19:01 *** VVG [~sdfkhksd@85.249.0.40] has quit [] 12:19:04 <Rubidium> then use awk :) 12:19:07 <SmatZ> the problem is the buffer is limited 12:19:25 <Rubidium> let it not output anything until the to-be-matched (grep) expression is found, then output everything 12:19:43 <Rubidium> then you only need a single pass over the file 12:19:57 <SmatZ> as I have already told, "sed '1,10d'" works great 12:20:15 <SmatZ> so stop this discussion and use it :p 12:20:45 <SmatZ> but no, people prefer to discuss instead of working :) 12:21:04 <Ammler> xou are so damn right :-P 12:21:26 <Rubidium> SmatZ: but then you still need grep, so you have two passes over the file 12:22:09 <planetmaker> finding something obviously needs a search which in the worst case means reading everything, finding nothing 12:22:23 <SmatZ> Rubidium: grep works with streams too 12:22:49 <SmatZ> but yes :) I wonder what is faster, awk or sed+grep? 12:23:11 <planetmaker> time it ;-) 12:23:23 <Rubidium> another option is "grep -A 999999999999999999 <to grep thing> $file" 12:23:31 <SmatZ> :) 12:24:10 <Rubidium> SmatZ: I'd argue that given the relative slowness of scanning 3 GiB, awk is faster than sed+grep 12:24:33 <Noldo> use time to test it 12:25:57 <planetmaker> slow, Noldo ;-) 12:26:48 <Ammler> hmm, but why is there a head -n-10 but no tail -n-10? 12:28:29 <roboboy> would a SDL version of OpenTTD work on windows? 12:28:35 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: tried tail -n +34029895 $file? 12:29:11 *** VVG [~sdfkhksd@85.249.0.40] has joined #openttd 12:29:33 <Ammler> oh, + :-) 12:30:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: hm... that's not in the man page 12:30:30 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: then you've got an old man page 12:30:33 * roboboy wonders if a Windows95 build of OpenTTD built using SDL instead of DirectX would work under Windows 3.X with Win32s 12:30:36 <Rubidium> or an old tail 12:30:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: it seems to work 12:31:13 <Rubidium> hell... it's even in the man page of tail in Debian Lenny 12:31:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: indeed, seems the german man page is outdated 12:31:28 <Rubidium> what extremely ancient distro are you using? 12:31:37 <SmatZ> :) 12:31:45 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: never use de-man pages 12:31:52 <Ammler> that is a known issue 12:32:40 <planetmaker> if tail is given a file it does indeed scan backward 12:32:59 *** X-2 [~Xaer0@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 12:34:04 <Ammler> I wonder, suse does still install those outdated docs 12:35:01 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-77-86-68-28.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:35:29 <SmatZ> silly, even with 64bit system, I need to specify -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 to work with huge files nicely 12:35:35 *** rTypo [rTypo@pc54.clicknet.iasi.rdsnet.ro] has quit [] 12:37:03 <X-2> moin 12:37:15 <Rubidium> moi 12:38:33 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:39:04 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 12:39:19 <roboboy> does OpenTTD use any Windows API calls which would likely be missing from Win32s? 12:39:43 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: in any case, you should file a bug report about the manpage being out-of-date 12:42:46 <planetmaker> roboboy, OpenTTD *should* work independent of 32 or 64 bit. But the usable drivers differ 12:43:10 <planetmaker> and their 'ranking' 12:43:43 <roboboy> planetmaker, did you notice the s on the end of Win32s? 12:43:55 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: win32s is the 32-bit extension of win 3.11 12:44:30 <Eddi|zuHause> roboboy: main problem with pre-win2k is usually lack of unicode support 12:44:49 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:155b:6150:5f32:d158] has joined #openttd 12:44:52 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:44:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure the win9x problems are documented somewhere 12:45:14 <__ln__> bonsoir glx 12:45:27 <glx> too early for that __ln__ ;) 12:45:47 <__ln__> one hour later here, but yeah :) 12:46:15 <glx> bonsoir is for evening 12:46:46 <Eddi|zuHause> "evening" is >18:00? 12:47:00 <glx> yes 12:47:01 <roboboy> The only problems I can think of under Win32s is no DirectX so one would have to either run the DOS port or a Win95 version using Allegro or SDL 12:47:18 <Eddi|zuHause> roboboy: openttd doesn't use directx 12:47:20 <glx> directx is optionnal 12:47:22 <Eddi|zuHause> it uses GDI 12:47:34 <glx> and used for music only 12:47:41 <roboboy> ok 12:47:46 <planetmaker> <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: win32s is the 32-bit extension of win 3.11 <-- aye. That's a piece of information I was missing :-) 12:47:53 <roboboy> hm 12:48:09 <roboboy> but it isn't all of Win32 12:48:14 <glx> but drawing is done with GDI or optionnaly SDL 12:48:28 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it's basically some stuff from win95 backported to win3.11 12:48:51 <roboboy> hm maybe I will try the windows 95 version under Win32s 12:49:11 <planetmaker> sounds only usable for freaks like roboboy ;-) (and I mean no offence ;-) ) 12:49:12 <Eddi|zuHause> roboboy: yes, that would also the first thing i would try 12:49:28 <roboboy> just nutting out any issues 12:49:32 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it came with freecell ;) 12:49:40 <planetmaker> :-D 12:49:45 <roboboy> hehe I don't mind being called a freak in here 12:50:30 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: knowing the history of roboboy, you could have guessed that he's trying to install some ancient platform... 12:50:49 <roboboy> it's already installed 12:51:01 <roboboy> minus Windows OpenTTD 12:51:05 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, yes, I did guess that. 12:51:31 <planetmaker> Besides... Spleen [DE] != spleen [EN] 12:51:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i wouldn't know either of their meanings 12:52:17 <Rubidium> the latter is some internal organ 12:52:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i only know splines... 12:52:40 <Eddi|zuHause> or spliss 12:52:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know spliff ;) 12:53:01 <Rubidium> IIRC one of the internal organs you can live without 12:53:28 <planetmaker> Rubidium, rather the other meanings ;-). Which translate to 'tic' or 'eccentricity' or 'obsession' or 'quirk'. 12:53:34 <planetmaker> Not sure, but 'tic' might fit best 12:53:56 <planetmaker> but I don't know the connotations. "Spleen" is friendly 12:54:39 * roboboy waits while Win9x OpenTTD downloads slowly on his slow connection 12:55:04 <VVG> trying to compile ottd in vc++ 2010 express, i get those erros http://www.pastie.org/1164819 3 times, compilation stops then :( 12:55:26 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i don't know how to properly bisect a hacked wine... 12:56:01 <Rubidium> VVG: IIRC that's some incorrectly ordered includes 12:56:24 <dihedral> VVG, i like the smily at the end of the second line 12:56:30 <glx> VVG: trunk or stable? 12:56:45 <VVG> trunk 12:56:56 <Rubidium> glx: it's directx sdk7 interfering in some way 12:57:12 <glx> no, windows sdk :) 12:57:32 <glx> anyway I use 7.1 12:57:53 <VVG> how do i update them? 12:58:04 <VVG> i didn't even know i have such things before i saw this error 12:58:34 <VVG> and about includes, i have ottd essentials listed first, then dxsdk, then default ones 12:58:46 <Rubidium> move dxsdk to the bottom and try again 13:00:21 <VVG> i can only change the order of dxsdk and essentials, as others are "inherited" 13:00:40 <glx> D:\developpement\ottd\OpenTTD essentials\shared\include 13:00:40 <glx> $(WindowsSdkDir)\include 13:00:40 <glx> $(VCInstallDir)include 13:00:40 <glx> $(DXSDK_DIR)\Include 13:00:47 <glx> that's what I have 13:01:01 <Rubidium> glx: move DXSDK_DIR to the top and you'll get those errors 13:01:12 <Rubidium> proving my point it's dxsdk interfering 13:01:53 <glx> anyway we use a very old dxsdk so it's somehow not surprising 13:02:20 <VVG> how did you get dxsdk this low? 13:04:21 <VVG> found 13:04:46 <Rubidium> it's directx7's sdk providing rpcsal.h without that __RPC__out_xcount_part defined 13:05:02 <Rubidium> and when it's include is before the platform SDK that "wrong" one gets loaded 13:05:59 <Eddi|zuHause> that should probably be documented somewhere 13:08:09 <planetmaker> the usual difference between *should* *somewhere* *by someone* and actual reality hits hard sometimes 13:08:47 <Rubidium> http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/link/1284728686#1284728686 <- it is documented! 13:09:03 <VVG> haha 13:09:14 <roboboy> hehe 13:09:39 <dihedral> nice one Rubidium 13:10:12 <Rubidium> http://forum.codejock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=16582 <- documents it as well 13:10:25 <Rubidium> heh, even http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=50096 documents it 13:13:32 <Belugas> good day all 13:13:40 <Belugas> IT'S FRIDAY!!!!!! 13:14:58 <__ln__> are things like books, software, movies and such translated separately for Canadian French and French French? 13:15:21 <glx> they are just not available in canada :) 13:15:46 <__ln__> i see :) 13:16:05 <glx> but dubbed movies are nice in canada, normal accent except for names 13:16:40 <VVG> succesfully built, thanks 13:20:49 <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: and friday is almost over!!! ;) 13:22:36 <Belugas> or... just started :( but i'm happy for you, sir Eddi :) 13:23:16 <Belugas> glx, normal accent, you mean it's french like? 13:23:25 <glx> yes 13:23:35 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i have a problem, i'm trying to read mms://stream4.rbb-online.de/rbb/klartext/klartext_20100916_k_polizei_m_16_9_512x288.wmv but it always stops at around 32MB into the file... 13:23:49 <Belugas> ho... i was not aware they are making such good translations 13:24:01 <Belugas> in fatm i always though they stink 13:24:22 <Belugas> my wife and i prefer by far the translations from France 13:24:32 <Belugas> but i guess we are both specal cases :S 13:24:48 *** keoz [~keikoz@418pc.wohnheimg.uni-frankfurt.de] has joined #openttd 13:25:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i know a movie that was dubbed from switzerdÌÌtsch to hochdeutsch ;) 13:25:34 <planetmaker> nice. That link segfaulted my vlc 13:25:59 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.rbb-online.de/kontraste/archiv/kontraste_vom_16_09/missbrauch_des_gewaltmonopols.html <-- original page 13:26:01 <__ln__> vlc, which is french french 13:26:36 <planetmaker> hm, my suse has a pretty old vlc, < 1.0 13:30:43 <Belugas> __ln__ : technically, there is no difference between french from France or from Quebec, at least at the "official" level. The differences are more at the people side 13:31:12 <Belugas> we do have expressions, wordings and such that are a bit different 13:31:47 <glx> and funny accent ;) 13:31:54 <Belugas> but that does not reflect on the general litterature/culture, unless you expressely use an art made by and for a quebecor or a french 13:31:58 <Belugas> yeah :) 13:32:05 <glx> but for some reason it's absent in movies 13:32:28 <Belugas> because it is aimed at an internatioal market 13:32:29 <Eddi|zuHause> in 98% of all movies, german accents/dialects are also absent 13:32:46 <Belugas> so it can be sold as such to a large audience 13:33:02 <Belugas> same for german, as it seems :) 13:33:05 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why i enjoy british shows in original language, they actually do have accents there... 13:33:21 <Eddi|zuHause> unless they're getting too extreme 13:33:22 <glx> also singers have accent when the speak but not when they sing 13:33:56 <Eddi|zuHause> sportfreunde stiller are a great example of that ;) 13:35:53 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a german moderator of the "ARD Mittagsmagazin" [i believe, haven't watched that in a while], where the moderator has an extreme bavarian accent... it's really disturbing listening to that... 13:37:22 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 13:38:47 <VVG> glx: Are you using vc2010? 13:40:10 <glx> yes 13:41:15 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=903915#p903915 <-- nice question, Eddi|zuHause :-) 13:41:33 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D427.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:41:48 <VVG> Do you have a .props sheet suitable for applying to ottd you can share? 13:42:26 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it should probably be alright, thoug. the variable has 4 bits per edge, and is offset by 6, so you have a range of 2^6 to 2^(6+15), "which should be enough for anyone" :p 13:43:19 <Belugas> [09:33] <+glx> also singers have accent when the speak but not when they sing <--- yeah! that's so true! never figured that part 13:43:20 <Eddi|zuHause> currently, only values 0 (=64) to 5 (=2048) are used 13:46:37 <Eddi|zuHause> !calc 2**(6+15) 13:46:43 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 2**(6+15) 13:46:43 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 2097152 13:46:46 <beyre83> i am wondering how OTTD, gets around dmca notices? 13:46:53 <beyre83> since it reversed enginnerd the game 13:47:13 <Eddi|zuHause> beyre83: to my knowledge, nobody ever filed such a demand 13:47:40 <beyre83> Eddi|zuHause: well ok, but chris sawyer could if he felt so inclined, for breach of copyright 13:48:03 <SmatZ> beyre83: what has Europe to do with DMCA? 13:48:06 <Eddi|zuHause> beyre83: current legal status of TTD is: "chris sawyer said he doesn't own TTD", and "Atari says it's not bothered to find out whether they are owning TTD" 13:48:15 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-216-203.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 13:48:27 <dihedral> beyre83, Chris Sawyer could not 13:48:45 <beyre83> well SmatZ even euro is coverd by dmca 13:48:51 <beyre83> according to america at least 13:48:52 <beyre83> lol 13:48:54 <Eddi|zuHause> beyre83: and ludde said: "reverse engineering was legal under swedish rights at that time" 13:49:24 <SmatZ> [15:48:51] <beyre83> according to america at least <== /me couldn't care less 13:49:31 <dihedral> lol 13:49:31 <beyre83> nor could i 13:49:32 <planetmaker> beyre83, so... what happens if someone in America sues me on the basis of American laws? 13:49:47 <beyre83> i dunno 13:49:49 <beyre83> dont care 13:49:49 <dihedral> perhaps you get invited to visit the states? :-P 13:49:50 <beyre83> :p 13:49:52 <planetmaker> I'm not subject to them 13:50:02 <dihedral> beyre83, you seem to care enough to rise that question ;-) 13:50:03 *** Vitus [~chatzilla@138.194.wms.cz] has joined #openttd 13:50:04 <planetmaker> *unless* I visit the US 13:50:05 <beyre83> maybe not but i am sure your country has similer 13:50:14 <beyre83> i was just curious 13:50:15 <beyre83> :p 13:50:18 <beyre83> that was all 13:50:43 <beyre83> but if you download say illegal software, the owner of that company can complain to your isp who can cut you off 13:50:43 <dihedral> which does not suit "i do not care" very well 13:50:47 <beyre83> even if your not in america 13:51:05 <glx> beyre83: but the owner is unknown 13:51:13 <beyre83> i am not on about ttd 13:51:14 <beyre83> now 13:51:20 <Eddi|zuHause> beyre83: you misunderstand copyright... only the UPLOAD is illegal 13:51:21 <beyre83> i am on about intlectual property rights 13:51:22 <beyre83> :p 13:51:25 <dihedral> glx, you mean the owner of TT? 13:51:33 <Eddi|zuHause> beyre83: and only if the owner complains 13:51:37 *** Sacro [~ben@83.100.250.197] has joined #openttd 13:51:37 <glx> theorically it's atari 13:51:41 <dihedral> nope 13:51:50 <dihedral> it's marjacq 13:51:54 <Eddi|zuHause> beyre83: and like we said, the presumed owner isn't bothered to find out 13:51:56 <SmatZ> [15:50:42] <beyre83> but if you download say illegal software, the owner of that company can complain to your isp who can cut you off <== certainly not 13:52:03 <dihedral> glx: http://www.marjacq.com 13:52:18 <SmatZ> maybe if you are in France :p 13:52:20 <SmatZ> (sorry glx ;) 13:52:44 <SmatZ> what's the status of HADOPI? 13:53:18 <glx> SmatZ: HADOPI is not about download, it's about insufficient protection of your connection 13:53:44 <beyre83> â¢Infogrames changed its corporate name to Atari Inc. Infogrames, after taking over Hasbro Interactive in 2001, is the copyright holder to most MicroProse intellectual property 13:53:47 <beyre83> :p 13:54:11 <SmatZ> glx: ok :) 13:54:47 <Eddi|zuHause> beyre83: you're free to try to get a legally binding statement out of Atari whether they own TTD or not.. 13:54:57 <Eddi|zuHause> beyre83: several of us tried, nobody succeeded 13:54:59 <dihedral> beyre83, wrong ^^ 13:55:00 <beyre83> well that claims they own 13:55:22 <dihedral> they were allowed to produce copies, but had to pay % to marjacq 13:55:28 <dihedral> produce and distribute 13:55:47 <dihedral> iirc that law suit was settled not all that long ago 13:55:50 <dihedral> perhaps a year ago 13:55:58 <dihedral> for a law suit lasting longer than 2years IIRC 13:56:20 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: you have a reference? 13:56:34 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 13:56:35 <glx> it was solve with money, not by judges 13:56:35 <Eddi|zuHause> and "settled" may mean any number of things 13:56:40 <dihedral> for what part :-P 13:56:44 <dihedral> settled out side of court 13:57:01 <dihedral> feel free to call marjacq, and ask for 'guy' :-P 13:57:16 <dihedral> he's their main legal person i spoke to some years back 13:57:17 <Eddi|zuHause> it does not necessarily mean that either side definitely gave up their claim to the copyright 13:57:19 <dihedral> and emaild 13:58:05 <dihedral> http://news.cnet.com/U.K.-developer-sues-Atari/2100-1043_3-5944094.html <- start here? 13:58:06 <dihedral> :-P 13:58:59 <glx> but as there's no court decision, the owner is still unclear 13:59:11 <dihedral> this was not about owning 13:59:21 <dihedral> this was about 'owing' 13:59:31 <dihedral> marjacq owns the game 13:59:39 <dihedral> they never gave that away 13:59:43 <peter1138> emailed :s 14:00:17 <dihedral> merely had contracts with companies to produce copies and distribute, but were still ablodged to pay a certain % for each copy 14:00:30 <dihedral> *abliged 14:00:50 <dihedral> i had 2 phone calles with atarii lawyers too 14:02:03 <Belugas> yeah... dihedral made all those calls and inquires to push them to shut us down! 14:02:43 <dihedral> ... riiiiight ^^ 14:03:01 <Belugas> ;) 14:03:07 <dihedral> meany! :-P 14:03:21 <dihedral> if i recall correctly i forwarded that email to you, too, did i not? 14:03:24 <beyre83> seems it was settled in 2008 14:03:27 <beyre83> with out any details 14:03:39 <dihedral> nearly 3 years ago :-P 14:03:58 <dihedral> the email, i mean, was nearly 3 years ago 14:04:05 <Belugas> yes, you did :) and I really appreciated that work and involvement of yours 14:04:11 <dihedral> got a reply from marjacq on 09/25/2007 01:08 PM 14:04:25 <Eddi|zuHause> BÃÃÃHH!!! 14:04:35 <Eddi|zuHause> just took a sip of "cranberry juice" 14:04:43 <dihedral> YUMM? 14:04:45 <Eddi|zuHause> damn that's ugly! 14:04:54 <Belugas> the fact that you wanted so bad to have that situation cleared (but unfortunately never succeeded) was appreciated 14:05:12 <dihedral> well - it's cleared enough. 14:05:27 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:05:45 <Belugas> unfortunately, not enough as to clear out those discussions once and for all :( 14:05:46 <dihedral> when was TTD RE'd? was that 2000? 14:05:56 <Belugas> and it cannot be made public either 14:06:00 <dihedral> 10 years without a notice issued by the owner \o/ 14:06:07 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: i think it was later... 14:06:15 <Eddi|zuHause> more like 2004 14:06:16 <dihedral> shoot 14:06:16 <Belugas> 2002-3, i'd say 14:06:25 <dihedral> well, a few more years to go 14:06:56 <beyre83> donst copyright last 75yrs or something 14:06:58 <dihedral> besides, if they started a lawsuit now, it'd be too late for a quick outcome anyway - as they are fully aware of the project, and have been for years now 14:07:00 <beyre83> if its not reapplyed 14:07:08 *** keoz [~keikoz@418pc.wohnheimg.uni-frankfurt.de] has quit [Quit: keoz] 14:07:23 <dihedral> beyre83, after the death of the author ;-) 14:07:26 <Belugas> beyre83, the amount of time differs from a country to the other 14:07:54 <Eddi|zuHause> beyre83: in europe, it's usually 70 years after the death of the author. no "application" needed 14:09:04 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: i hope you still have those emails, in case we ever need to prove that we did try to contact the relevant people about the copyright 14:09:25 <Belugas> he sure does, he even can tell the time he received those ;) 14:09:43 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has joined #openttd 14:10:12 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, you think i'd delete them? ^^ 14:10:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: i meant, "he WILL still have them at that hypothetical future time" 14:10:37 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: there may be all sorts of reasons for data loss 14:10:38 <dihedral> iirc i might still have phone bills with their number on them :-P 14:13:21 <Eddi|zuHause> who dares open a file called "pdf_malware.pdf"? :) 14:13:32 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.symantec.com/content/en/us/enterprise/media/security_response/whitepapers/the_rise_of_pdf_malware.pdf 14:14:16 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: I hope there's no example malware in that PDF :p 14:14:57 <planetmaker> Drive-by download, SmatZ ;-) 14:15:07 <planetmaker> with one for each OS ;-) 14:15:41 <dihedral> android? :-P 14:15:59 <planetmaker> that even makes sense 14:20:36 <beyre83> doubt this is actually really him 14:20:36 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:20:38 <beyre83> http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000591308105 14:20:39 <beyre83> :p 14:20:51 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 14:21:23 <planetmaker> the photo should be him 14:21:28 <beyre83> maybe 14:21:34 <beyre83> but anyone can steal a photo 14:21:39 <beyre83> dosnt mean its actually his account 14:24:31 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:27:52 <beyre83> wonders if its possibull to play ottd on a ipad, now that would be fun all touch screen 14:27:53 <beyre83> :p 14:28:30 <Eddi|zuHause> there was an iphone port around... 14:28:32 <planetmaker> there was a version violating copyright 14:29:29 <beyre83> violateing whos (C) 14:30:10 <VVG> kinda figured those property sheets of vc2010. However, if make a new separate sheet with include and lib paths setup for ottd, msvc modifies vxproj file which is svned. If i don't want it to be changed, am i stuck to default sheet? 14:30:11 <planetmaker> license is the better word than copyright 14:30:33 <Rubidium> GPLv2 doesn't like Apple's ToS 14:30:38 <beyre83> you mean the GPL? 14:30:42 <beyre83> heh 14:31:19 <beyre83> well parts of osx are gpl 14:31:19 <beyre83> well the bsd core is parts of it 14:31:19 <Rubidium> but before that it was violating copyright/the license of OpenGFX, OpenSFX and OpenTTD 14:31:22 *** Joni- [~Joni-@80.220.0.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:31:40 <beyre83> tho they have closed most of it 14:31:40 <beyre83> even tho it was gpl 14:31:40 *** Joni- [~Joni-@80.220.0.41] has joined #openttd 14:31:48 <Rubidium> http://freeishsoftware.org/index.php/the-news/110-an-analysis-of-the-impact-of-the-fsf-apple-enforcement-action 14:32:11 <Rubidium> as a result of that it seems Apple has removed OpenTTD 14:32:37 <beyre83> correct me if i am wrong, but if something is GPL it can be changed / modifed to run on any device or os, provideing that the orginal makers of said item still retain mention in the new program? 14:32:42 <Rubidium> after we got it pulled, followed by allowing it again because the "porter" fixed all license issues with it 14:33:07 <Rubidium> and then Apple changed their ToS, FSF complained about it and Apple removed OpenTTD again 14:34:58 <Terkhen> VVG: http://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/details/454471/vc-directories-options-are-missing 14:36:26 <Rubidium> also... it's not the act of porting that is wrong, it's the act of (for the first pull) not providing the full sources, not providing the license and misrepresenting the license of certain parts 14:36:50 <glx> and apple refusing gpl ? 14:37:08 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:37:33 <Rubidium> that's not wrong :) 14:37:36 <beyre83> i know if you port you have to included full source code, and update the licence but still retain the names of the orginal program in the new licence 14:38:39 <Rubidium> you can't change a license if you're not the copyright holder 14:39:32 <planetmaker> gpl just requires to amend the attributions correspondingly. So that no-one attributes your crappy changes to my shiny glory :-P 14:40:21 <beyre83> i never said remove the orginal owners name, but you can add your name as the person who ported it 14:40:23 <beyre83> and thats it 14:40:29 <beyre83> you cant claim the work as your own 14:40:37 <beyre83> except the code you wrote to port it 14:40:41 <Eddi|zuHause> the main problem is that you are forced to go over the app store, which is kind of a monopoly... 14:40:42 <VVG> Terkhen: not sure if this is applicable here. I wanted the default sheet to stay default and made a new one. Imported it in a project and vs modified the vxcproj file to include one more line <Import Project="..\..\openttd.props" />. and this vxcproj is subversioned. 14:40:57 <beyre83> well yea 14:41:08 <beyre83> but its how apple enforces there policy 14:41:20 <beyre83> by not allowing anyone else there they dont like 14:41:25 <Terkhen> VVG: the Microsoft.Cpp.Win32.User.Props sheet is used by all projects 14:41:58 <Terkhen> once you set the folders there, you can forget about them 14:42:32 <VVG> yep. that's why i wanted it to stay default for now and make a new sheet for ottds. But, if i don't want unnecessary modifications to subversioned files i guess i have to use this global sheet 14:45:46 <glx> yes 14:47:27 <glx> in previous VS versions, you could have a local config in .user files, but they changed that :) 14:48:40 <planetmaker> how useful 14:48:47 <glx> hmm there is a local .user 14:50:59 <glx> but that doesn't work it seems 14:51:02 * beyre83 wonders wether or not to buy a simfree iphone :p 14:52:29 <Eddi|zuHause> don't. 14:52:37 <beyre83> why? 14:52:44 <Eddi|zuHause> it starts with an "i" 14:52:49 <Eddi|zuHause> it can't be good 14:52:49 <beyre83> they really that bad? 14:53:18 *** Klanticus [~quassel@200-161-120-132.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #openttd 14:54:01 *** snorre [~snorre@c692BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 14:55:17 <Rubidium> if *you* want to decided what *you* want to do with the thing, then yes it is bad. If *you* want Apple to decide what *you* can do on your phone, then no it's not bad. 14:56:38 <Eddi|zuHause> "ich laà mich nicht ver-Apple-n" 14:56:59 <Ammler> translate it :-P 14:57:13 <Eddi|zuHause> "fÃŒr'n Apple und'n i" 14:58:03 <Rubidium> although maybe my opinion of Apple is somewhat tainted by earlier experiences 14:59:04 <Rubidium> e.g. the first Apple experience I had was completely locking up someone's iBook by looking through the screensavers it had (only way to get it rebooted: remove battery and power cord) 15:00:54 <Eddi|zuHause> hey: my first win95 experience: pushing the "minimize" button on any window restarted the computer :p 15:01:51 <Rubidium> after that family members having a mac have been complaining about loads of hardware issues, like the backlight inverter (or something) causing the screen to flicker 15:02:05 <Rubidium> that'd make the device completely useless to me 15:04:51 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:06:14 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 15:09:31 <dihedral> <Eddi|zuHause> "ich laà mich nicht ver-Apple-n" <- NICE 15:11:18 *** Yexo_ [~Yexo@153-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 15:11:30 <__ln__> in short, Rubidium is just envious that even TrueBrain had a mac in the meeting but he had a Dell or something. :) 15:12:06 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:12:16 <dihedral> TrueBrain has a mac?? 15:12:42 <glx> he didn't bought it IIRC 15:12:58 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7c3e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:13:05 <TrueBrain> weird, I brought something I didn't bought 15:13:07 <TrueBrain> awesome stuff 15:13:07 <VVG> "The migration user file. After a project is migrated from Visual Studio 2008, this file contains information that was converted from any .vsprops file." <- This is a descriptions of vxcproj.user file from msdn. It's not used in native 2010 project anymore, is it? 15:13:08 <TrueBrain> :D 15:14:58 *** Yexo is now known as Guest1094 15:14:58 *** Yexo_ is now known as Yexo 15:16:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20821 /trunk/src/landscape.cpp: -Fix [FS#4129]: terraforming the land under objects could leave sloped or elevated sea tiles 15:17:24 *** Vitus [~chatzilla@138.194.wms.cz] has quit [Quit: Good bye] 15:17:58 *** Guest1094 [~Yexo@153-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:20:07 *** Vitus [~chatzilla@138.194.wms.cz] has joined #openttd 15:21:04 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 15:25:25 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc3465.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:34:57 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-118-73.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:36:31 * robotboy waits for OpenTTD to unzip 15:37:10 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-77-198.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:37:13 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 15:38:02 *** zodttd [~me@user-0c90n12.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #openttd 15:41:57 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:16 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:36 <robotboy> meh my DOS machine's disk is full and wont fit a second copy of OpenTTD on it 16:07:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i have a spare 40MB disk ;) 16:07:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20822 /trunk/src/genworld.cpp: -Fix [FS#3707]: deadlock when aborting map generation on windows 16:10:10 <robotboy> Ive got spare drives, the problem is getting my bios to like multiple drives and getting the jumpers setup correctly 16:10:36 <robotboy> this is a celeron machine from 98SE 16:11:05 <Eddi|zuHause> jumpers are easy... two drives per cable, one master, one slave 16:11:27 <glx> or cable select :) 16:11:45 <robotboy> yeah normally but these drives seem to have odd jumper settings 16:11:59 *** thvdburgt [~thvdburgt@banning.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 16:12:18 <robotboy> I'll try it in about 12 hours after a sleep and a haircut 16:18:03 <planetmaker> sleep well then :-) 16:20:14 <robotboy> I'm not entirely ready for bed yet (: 16:20:36 <robotboy> there's some decent cricket on tv at the moment 16:21:20 <Eddi|zuHause> weird... 16:21:24 <Eddi|zuHause> > git show 6f18777 | patch 16:21:24 <Eddi|zuHause> patch: **** Only garbage was found in the patch input. 16:21:50 <planetmaker> oh cricket... :-) 16:22:10 <planetmaker> Those were nice social occasions in the weekends when I still lived in the Southern hemisphere :-) 16:22:18 <planetmaker> weired sport, though ;-) 16:22:43 <Alberth> patch -p1 ? 16:22:52 <Eddi|zuHause> cricket is where they play for 3 days, and then declare it a draw? 16:23:04 <planetmaker> possibly, yes 16:23:37 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand what's wrong with this patch 16:23:46 <Eddi|zuHause> it looks totally alright to me... 16:24:41 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20823 /trunk/src/thread/thread_pthread.cpp: -Codechange: enable/add some error/sanity checking in the pthread code 16:36:04 <Eddi|zuHause> how can i tell git to list all my commits, even if they are not in the "head" branch? 16:37:26 <beyre83> mmm remineder to self do not leave a passivly cooled dell mini 9 on for 3days pluged in on carpet 16:37:32 <beyre83> or this is what happens http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj134/beneyre/DSCF3100.jpg 16:38:35 *** TomyLobo [~foo@port-212-202-171-176.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 16:40:28 <SmatZ> beyre83: because of the heat? 16:40:33 <beyre83> yup 16:40:36 <beyre83> lol 16:41:23 <planetmaker> looks like a product bug, not a mis-use 16:42:04 <beyre83> mmm though they wouldnt agree with you :p 16:42:13 <planetmaker> not? 16:42:30 <beyre83> they would say its a heat issue, since all the service tags on the bottom have vanished due to heat 16:42:35 <beyre83> cant read the serial no 16:42:36 <beyre83> or anything 16:42:37 <beyre83> lol 16:43:12 <beyre83> not even the microsoft coa is visibull cant read the text anymor 16:43:13 <beyre83> e 16:43:40 <SmatZ> does the manual say that it shouldn't be left for 3 days on the carpet? 16:43:44 <robotboy> gnight 16:43:48 <SmatZ> night robotboy 16:43:49 <beyre83> dont think so 16:44:00 <beyre83> but idd have to check 16:44:02 <Eddi|zuHause> beyre83: i'd try for a warranty replacement 16:44:21 <robotboy> and also gmorning 16:44:26 <beyre83> how long are these things warrantted for these days? 16:44:30 <Eddi|zuHause> be sure to back up all data, though ;) 16:44:32 <SmatZ> there's nothing to lose for trying 16:44:35 <beyre83> its more than 2yrs old 16:44:43 <SmatZ> it's DELL 16:44:55 <Eddi|zuHause> beyre83: depends... standard is 2 years, but lots of companies offer more 16:45:04 <beyre83> well ill check heh 16:45:31 <SmatZ> I had a hard drive that died after 4 years and 11 months 16:45:36 <SmatZ> with 5 years warranty 16:45:58 <planetmaker> :-O 16:45:59 <SmatZ> the only problem was I would have to deliver it to Seagate Center somewhere in Germany 16:46:13 <planetmaker> that's a problem? 16:46:17 <SmatZ> even the price for posting would be more expensive than new HDD... 16:46:22 <planetmaker> he 16:46:25 <Eddi|zuHause> international shipping? 16:46:29 <SmatZ> nope 16:46:39 <SmatZ> but the extended (>2yrs) warranty had to be solved that way 16:46:46 <Eddi|zuHause> my shipping to seagate cost like 5⬠16:47:05 <SmatZ> 5yrs warranty is just marketing bull* 16:47:21 <planetmaker> SmatZ, lifetime warranty :-) 16:47:26 <SmatZ> :) 16:47:34 <beyre83> wonders if service tag is in bios 16:47:37 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody gives out lifetime warranties to end users... 16:47:38 <beyre83> as i cant read the sticker 16:47:40 <beyre83> lol 16:47:45 <planetmaker> I could use it on my backpack. But the company is bancrupt :-P 16:47:50 <SmatZ> there's a risk they will say the warranty is void for some reason 16:47:57 <SmatZ> like, it was damaged by post 16:48:01 <beyre83> its in the bios 16:48:02 <beyre83> :D 16:48:07 <beyre83> found my service tag 16:48:07 <beyre83> lol 16:48:09 <SmatZ> :) 16:48:59 <beyre83> yay 16:49:05 <beyre83> has 135days left 16:49:07 <beyre83> :D 16:49:10 <beyre83> not run out yet 16:49:11 <beyre83> lol 16:49:12 <planetmaker> see :-) 16:49:20 <planetmaker> Dell is not that bad with service 16:49:29 <glx> call them, dell is good yes 16:49:55 <beyre83> might just do that 16:50:14 <Eddi|zuHause> but still, make a data backup ;) 16:51:38 <beyre83> yes 16:51:43 <beyre83> and wipe it as well 16:51:44 <beyre83> :p 17:03:52 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:04:18 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: did you already hear that MB has some kind of problem with your blacksmith accepting iron ore? 17:05:55 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: no, I am indeed fascinated to hear about it though 17:06:05 <andythenorth> it shall probably be the highlight of this evening 17:06:14 <andythenorth> do I have to visit a German forum to learn of this? 17:06:21 <Eddi|zuHause> yes ;) 17:06:36 <andythenorth> well, I shall never know of it then :P 17:07:28 <Hirundo> Of course, using the german forum should ensure that 'problems' are not 'fixed', thus having enough to complain about for years to come 17:07:33 <planetmaker> :-D 17:07:50 <beyre83> mmm there phon hold stuff is boring 17:07:51 <beyre83> :p 17:07:55 <beyre83> phone* 17:08:03 <planetmaker> there's a reason not to subscribe to flyspray, too 17:08:25 <Eddi|zuHause> *their 17:08:36 <Eddi|zuHause> [@beyre83] 17:08:38 <beyre83> that aswell 17:08:39 <beyre83> :p 17:08:53 <beyre83> the music sucks 17:08:58 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't happen to be native english speaker, do you? ;) 17:10:34 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:23:00 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: when does your steel works appear? ~1850? 17:23:30 *** azaghal_ is now known as azaghal 17:24:02 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/schema/industries_coders 17:24:06 <andythenorth> sort by intro date :P 17:24:22 <andythenorth> 1843 is the answer :) 17:24:23 <planetmaker> how up to date is that page? 17:24:27 <planetmaker> and how authorative? 17:24:33 <andythenorth> I consider that page the spec 17:24:42 <andythenorth> how accurate the code is wrt to it, I'm not sure 17:24:52 <Belugas> grrrr... a quarter of an hour walk to get there, just to find the ships i wanted to photograph were not there, and what's more, I forgot to put my sd card on the camera 17:24:55 <andythenorth> I do try and keep the website as accurate as possible 17:24:55 <Belugas> nice :S 17:25:09 <andythenorth> Belugas: at least you didn't miss the photos of them 17:25:13 * planetmaker hugs Belugas 17:25:22 <Belugas> true that, very true 17:25:25 <andythenorth> I sometimes photographed things then found no film in my camera 17:25:35 <andythenorth> not so good when you're being paid for the pictures :( 17:29:51 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 17:30:08 <glx> that reminds me when my father was taking the 40th photo on a 36 exposures film 17:30:55 <Eddi|zuHause> there's usually some extra stuff on such a film... 17:31:04 <Eddi|zuHause> and the last photo will be only half ;) 17:31:19 <glx> but the film was not loaded correctly 17:31:35 <glx> was an old reflex 17:32:07 <Belugas> hehehe 17:32:13 <Eddi|zuHause> oh... so he did 40 photos on the same spot... that's nasty :p 17:32:14 <Belugas> nice stories :) 17:32:31 <Belugas> could lead to cute pictures, though 17:32:37 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a movie once 17:32:49 <Belugas> double, triple exposures sometimes are wondeful 17:32:57 <Eddi|zuHause> where a guy made a pilgrimage from hungary to santiago 17:33:20 <Eddi|zuHause> and when he arrived there, his camera with all the photos got stolen 17:33:31 <Terkhen> ouch 17:34:03 <Belugas> santiago? 17:34:13 <Eddi|zuHause> santiago de compostela 17:34:17 <Eddi|zuHause> western spain 17:34:25 <Belugas> ho.. not chili one... 17:34:33 <Belugas> Chile 17:34:34 <Belugas> sorry 17:34:36 <glx> saint jacques de compostelle 17:34:40 <Eddi|zuHause> very holy place 17:34:47 <Terkhen> when someone wants to walk a lot he goes there 17:34:53 <Belugas> yup, got it now , thanks 17:35:22 <Eddi|zuHause> from hungary that's like 2000km 17:35:43 <Belugas> ell..hungary to santiago, chile is quite a walk too... but you gotta be Jesus for that ;) 17:36:16 <Belugas> on these words, i resume work 17:38:48 <Eddi|zuHause> basically... it was a sad story, and he didn't get his camera back, due to incompetence of the police (the guys watching the video surveillance were "distracted") 17:42:20 <Eddi|zuHause> google says close to 3000 km 17:42:40 <Alberth> only 33% off 17:42:54 <Eddi|zuHause> not even an order of magnitude ;) 17:48:58 <beyre83> its booked in for a service 17:49:21 <beyre83> tho they said "if the lcd" has a crack behind the panel they will not fix it 17:49:31 <beyre83> just hope the heat didnt crack the screen 17:55:33 *** wollollo [~martin@host86-175-29-208.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:57:56 *** rTypo [rTypo@pc54.clicknet.iasi.rdsnet.ro] has joined #openttd 18:00:07 <beyre83> so we shall see 18:00:25 *** Nite [5472b1fc@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:00:54 <Nite> Hi 18:01:11 <beyre83> Hello Nite 18:01:48 <Nite> can anyone tell whats the purpose for the "go to depot Serviece When Needed" order ? 18:02:23 <planetmaker> it's conditional as opposed to 'go always' 18:02:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: to select exactly which depot the train should go to, to not get lost 18:02:40 <Nite> ... i mean; trians will service without the order too!? 18:02:54 <planetmaker> if a depot is available, yes 18:02:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: and to not go to depot unnecessary 18:03:04 <Nite> ic - but 18:03:18 <beyre83> well if you turn off breakdowns trains dont need servicing 18:03:21 <beyre83> but heh 18:03:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: if a train goes to a random depot, it might not get back from there 18:03:28 <Nite> the goto nearest depot AND when needed is obsolete then 18:03:30 <Nite> ? 18:04:06 <Nite> (i understand the goto specific depot when needed) 18:04:11 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:04:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: so what exactly is your question now? 18:05:21 <Nite> can anyone tell whats the purpose for the "go to NEAREST depot Serviece When Needed" order ? because trains would do that without the order too. 18:05:47 <Nite> (an yeah its pedantic ;) ) 18:05:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: but you know where that train is when it starts that order, so you can make sure it goes to depot _after_ unloading and not before 18:06:23 <Rubidium> or... somewhere along the route after that "nearest" depot from the previous order 18:06:43 <Nite> ok - so the train wil look ahead in the order list? 18:06:59 <Eddi|zuHause> or for load balancing several depots dirgectly behind a waypoint 18:07:11 <Eddi|zuHause> -g 18:07:52 <Rubidium> Nite: no, it will stop its automatic-at-any-time going to a depot if there is at least one depot order in the order list 18:08:28 <Eddi|zuHause> conclusion: there are plenty of uses for the order. they might not be immediately obvious, but they exist. 18:08:31 <Nite> that explains rubidium thx vm! 18:09:06 <Nite> i did not know that a depot order changes the autoservice behaviour ... 18:11:09 <Nite> until now i made forced depot/service at end of every run ... (or so) 18:11:37 <Nite> 1 more 18:14:31 <Nite> how do i get trains to visit different depots when they have anearset depot order and share the same orders ... is it possibel 18:14:32 <beyre83> how do i turn on "autoclean" serverside? 18:14:43 <Nite> not i guess 18:14:43 *** Vitus [~chatzilla@138.194.wms.cz] has quit [Quit: Good bye] 18:15:09 <Nite> last question may need ingame example ... 18:15:52 <Rubidium> Nite: pathfinder penalties 18:16:09 <Nite> ok, which says nothing to me ... 18:16:22 <Rubidium> beyre83: using the "setting" command (console) 18:17:04 <Nite> some config file pathfinder penalties? 18:17:21 <planetmaker> all 18:23:03 <Nite> oddly it works with pathsignals (pathsig and two depots behind AND depot order) 18:23:19 <Nite> trains will enter a free depot when the other is in use) 18:23:52 <Nite> without pathfinder penalties 18:25:03 * Rubidium argues that is not true 18:26:02 <Nite> and u are right 18:26:11 <Nite> BUT only sometimes 18:26:31 <Nite> it worked in one example but not in another 18:26:54 <Rubidium> there are definitely pathfinder penalties that influence the decision to go to a particular depot 18:27:10 <Nite> however i cannot see ingame which depot a train "has in mind" and when 18:27:57 <Nite> rather complicated - something to fiddle with :) 18:33:37 <Nite> solution is awkward 18:42:28 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a patch where you can ctrl+click on the line where it says "heading to depot" 18:42:35 <Eddi|zuHause> and it should jump to that location 18:45:59 *** Joni- [~Joni-@80.220.0.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:46:02 <Nite> in my case i want that trains are searching for next "free" depot, like the do for station platforms ... 18:46:13 <Nite> "like they" 18:48:01 <Nite> ...someone mentioned having the depots exactly like stations but only for servicing purposes ... 18:50:41 <Nite> the awkward solution is having a station in front of depot sending trains nonstop through it before going to nearest depot 18:52:00 *** Sacro_ [~ben@83.100.250.197] has joined #openttd 18:52:47 *** Sacro [~ben@83.100.250.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:54:17 *** rJoe [rTypo@pc54.clicknet.iasi.rdsnet.ro] has joined #openttd 18:54:17 *** rTypo [rTypo@pc54.clicknet.iasi.rdsnet.ro] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:55:17 *** Zuu [Leif@c-91f0e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 18:57:10 <Eddi|zuHause> that's called a waypoint 18:57:33 <Eddi|zuHause> and it's called "go-via", not "non-stop" 19:07:38 <Nite> yeah but a station used as waypoint "as in oleskool" so the train does the same type of selecting its route 19:09:33 <Nite> and right "go via" 19:10:47 <beyre83> mmm Rubidium you type the cmd to list commands 19:10:55 <beyre83> but it lists to many to display all at once 19:10:57 <beyre83> so yea 19:12:54 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-245-170.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:13:00 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-245-170.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 19:13:44 *** wollollo [~martin@host86-175-29-208.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #openttd 19:18:03 <planetmaker> scroll up using cursor 19:18:59 <glx> there's a filter too (but maybe for settings only) 19:19:28 <beyre83> well the wiki helped 19:19:29 <beyre83> :) 19:19:35 <beyre83> autoclean_companies 19:19:44 <beyre83> with a 1 after that 19:22:38 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 19:25:13 <beyre83> me thinks http://bananas.openttd.org/en/scenario/ needs updateing 19:25:20 <beyre83> europe + citys dosnt work :p 19:25:27 <beyre83> just get some holding page 19:25:41 <beyre83> in a strange languag 19:25:41 <beyre83> e 19:26:24 <beyre83> finnish i belive 19:26:30 <beyre83> with the ending domain .fi 19:26:35 <beyre83> but the link is dead 19:26:43 *** Vitus [~chatzilla@138.194.wms.cz] has joined #openttd 19:28:54 <frosch123> beyre83: that is the job of the author who uploaded it there 19:29:13 <beyre83> surely dosent anyone else maintain the list? 19:29:18 <beyre83> to purge broken links 19:29:20 <beyre83> ? 19:29:32 <Terkhen> it's a wiki 19:30:00 <planetmaker> Terkhen: bananas is no wiki ;-) 19:30:03 <frosch123> the list is not created/maintained by anyone in particular. every author manages his own stuff 19:30:09 <Terkhen> oh 19:30:26 <Terkhen> I assumed it was the same old question :) 19:31:51 <planetmaker> :-) 19:37:42 <Nite> wow just expierioenced that there Are multilane waypoints ... X) 19:37:49 <Nite> -o 19:40:47 <Nite> since when? 19:41:05 <planetmaker> a few months 19:41:16 <Eddi|zuHause> about half a year 19:41:45 <Nite> ic 19:42:25 <Nite> ... what else could i have overlooked ... 19:42:48 <Eddi|zuHause> plenty of stuff, based on your previous questions :p 19:43:36 <VVG> that reminds me, you can't place a waypoint right between a station and another waypoint without ctrl clicking 19:44:40 <Nite> otherwise it would be you cant multitrack waypoint withour ctrl ... 19:44:51 <Nite> ' 19:47:44 <Nite> give me soem examples about "planty" Eddi 19:47:55 <Nite> a=e 19:50:02 <VVG> changelog is a great place for such info :p 19:50:36 <Nite> true 19:58:11 <planetmaker> hm, on what basis is the icon colour for companies chosen in the multiplayer join lobby? The icon colour of the "blob"? 19:58:38 <planetmaker> or s/colour/sprite/ 19:58:59 <Rubidium> profit iirc 19:59:13 <andythenorth> hi hi 19:59:13 <planetmaker> I get the "high profit" icon for newly founded companies which do nothing, thus run debt 19:59:31 <planetmaker> (but still have their intial money / loan) 20:00:00 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so what do I need to know about Iron Ore -> Blacksmith? 20:00:22 <planetmaker> andythenorth: the opinion is to add the steel mill in between 20:00:33 <planetmaker> iron ore -> steel mill -> black smith 20:00:39 <andythenorth> meh 20:00:40 <andythenorth> no 20:00:59 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: basically since the 13th century, "raw iron" was created in foundrys, separate from the smiths 20:01:16 <Eddi|zuHause> that was HIS opinion 20:01:24 <planetmaker> :-) 20:01:39 <Eddi|zuHause> and i told him it was a shortened and less efficient cargo chain, and "realism" sometimes needs to step back 20:02:10 <planetmaker> that is NO argument! ;-) 20:03:01 <andythenorth> it's a combined "Foundry + Smithy" :) 20:03:13 <andythenorth> it would be called "Foundry", but there already is one, so....meh 20:03:35 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: call the other one "steel works" or something? 20:03:48 <andythenorth> "Metal Bashing Industry" 20:03:49 <Nite> not a question of relaism - mor of complexity 20:03:51 <andythenorth> "Pressing Plant" 20:05:00 <beyre83> wssnt there a steal mill anyway? 20:05:05 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: "steel furnace"? 20:05:21 *** Joni- [~Joni-@80.220.0.41] has joined #openttd 20:05:43 <andythenorth> "Finery Forge"? 20:05:43 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finery_forge 20:05:55 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the "realistic" point is that there was a huge technology jump in ore processing around 1850 20:06:45 <Nite> is this about firs? 20:07:09 <Terkhen> just write a note at the blacksmith description; "we have a magic wand that turns iron into steel" 20:07:29 <andythenorth> Iron Founder 20:07:36 <andythenorth> Nite: yes 20:08:24 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: the finery forge uses wood (charcoal) as a fuel 20:08:32 <andythenorth> that is an interesting variation from coal 20:08:41 <Nite> ... soem ppl complained about "everything" needing supplies to worfk and switched back to ecs ... 20:08:57 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes, that could be interesting 20:09:29 <Eddi|zuHause> coal wasn't really that interesting pre-industrialisation 20:09:31 <Nite> supplies should be a booster but not necessarry ... "we" thought ... 20:09:46 <planetmaker> that's what happens in FIRS... 20:10:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: what does that have to do with the discussion? 20:11:00 <Nite> nothing i just htought i mention it ... just a BTW 20:11:00 <andythenorth> Nite: did anyone actually test if supplies are necessary? 20:11:27 <Nite> well yeah they playtested it 20:11:32 <Nite> i did 20:12:03 <andythenorth> are they necessary? I forget... 20:12:40 <Terkhen> IIRC it was explained in the parameters 20:12:40 <Nite> yes many industries (not all) produce veryvery low without supplies 20:12:55 <andythenorth> hmm 20:12:59 <Terkhen> that's expected behaviour with clustering industries 20:13:17 <Nite> like farms 20:13:41 <Terkhen> use trucks to group their cargo :) 20:13:44 <andythenorth> it's been considered to restore the default production increase behaviour 20:13:49 <andythenorth> however I don't like it :P 20:13:57 <andythenorth> and no-one else has coded a solution 20:14:10 <VVG> in r965 supplies were a requirement for industry to stay alive i recall. but i think it was changed to just a booster around 0.2 mb 20:15:04 <andythenorth> there have been various methods :) 20:15:22 <Nite> it is just a booster but its necessarry in a way that without booster they produce only a scrap. 20:15:48 <VVG> i've played through two FIRS games where supplies were a requirement, both had more than 1k trains happily running around 20:15:51 <beyre83> mmm 115mb's of stuff to download in ottd 20:15:52 <beyre83> mmm 20:16:00 <Nite> maybee a param 4 it could help ... 20:16:09 <andythenorth> Nite: so the game is about transporting cargo yes / no? 20:16:22 <VVG> so, i assure it's ok to have them as requirement, if anyone asks me :) 20:16:25 <Wolf01> 'nighty night 20:16:33 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host105-234-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:17:27 <Nite> no it isnt at all andythenorth it is about guessing "who the hell produces steel" ... 20:18:23 <andythenorth> steel mill, innit :) 20:18:30 <Nite> well best if you can have it your taste = parameter ... 20:18:40 <VVG> since some time ago there is a nice cargo map feature, so no more guessing what goes where 20:18:55 <__ln__> interesting nasa test pilot stuff on arte right now 20:19:40 <andythenorth> out of interest....how do supplies work in ECS? 20:19:43 <Nite> i meant that guessing comical :/ 20:20:00 <andythenorth> I have never successfully played an ECS game, only read the wiki instructions 20:20:06 <Nite> the ecs has no supplies but vehicles 20:20:29 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i have never come as far as distributing vehicles, but i heard it was very fragile, if you missed a delivery, the whole chain could die 20:20:39 <Nite> vehicles act as boost but industries also produce good without them 20:21:13 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: like production dropping to 1/10th 20:21:24 <Terkhen> you can easily know who produces steel looking at the industry chain window 20:21:32 <andythenorth> there is no steel any more anyway 20:21:38 <andythenorth> we consolidated it to metal :) 20:21:41 <VVG> huh? 20:21:48 <Nite> raw materials can dry out in ECS so ore or coal out -> steel out -> vehicles almost out 20:21:59 <Eddi|zuHause> metal = steel or aluminium 20:22:28 * Rubidium isn't a metal? 20:22:30 <andythenorth> VVG: they were pretty much identical in the chains, so we put them together. saves a cargo slot 20:22:41 * Terkhen likes that 20:23:05 <Nite> likes that 2 20:23:07 <Terkhen> I should play a FIRS game, I'll probably won't recognize it... I haven't played since july IIRC 20:23:16 <planetmaker> hehe 20:23:19 <andythenorth> it would be nice to know if it's fun :) 20:23:24 <andythenorth> I haven't played for a while 20:23:31 <planetmaker> I just recently found fruit plantations. I was nicely and positively surprised :-) 20:23:44 <planetmaker> I wondered about trees on fields ;-) 20:23:50 <planetmaker> and found out it's an industry :-) 20:23:51 <Nite> i didnt go into it deeply, was also put of to supply everything with supplies 20:24:02 <VVG> do farms still start at production 8-20? 20:24:25 <Nite> and they staa that low without - again - farmsupplies 20:24:30 <andythenorth> VVG: yes, but you'll get lots together :) 20:24:34 <planetmaker> FIRS somehow is one of the newgrf nearly always active when I test around also other stuff ;-) 20:25:09 <Nite> first tier no supplies or anything would it be for me 20:25:21 *** Sacro_ [~ben@83.100.250.197] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:25:25 <andythenorth> "Someone" should fix the industry production cheat so it's compatible with production callback 20:25:34 <andythenorth> it only needs to modify the production multiplier 20:25:45 <andythenorth> it's probably just 'yet another weird bit of industry code' 20:25:51 <andythenorth> frosch123 had a look a while ago 20:28:45 <frosch123> you need to add some helper functions, and a bit of magic in the gui. not much but boring :) 20:29:25 <Nite> hmm there was no magic yet in ottd ... really something missing 20:29:35 <frosch123> btw. it is not only about compatiblity with "production callback". it is completely broken for non-smooth economy :p 20:29:50 <planetmaker> make a newgrf. Produce magic balls, wands, wizard hats... 20:29:57 <planetmaker> vehicles like flying carpets... 20:30:14 <Terkhen> toyland has some magic too 20:30:21 <planetmaker> houses like floating bubbles 20:30:27 <planetmaker> Terkhen: of course :-) 20:30:35 <planetmaker> and only few play it :-( 20:30:57 <Eddi|zuHause> the openttd code has plenty of magic 20:31:03 <Nite> wel it makes aour eyes explode 20:31:03 <planetmaker> and newgrf disable themselves all by default in toyland. why ever. 20:31:06 *** Sacro [~ben@83.100.250.197] has joined #openttd 20:31:10 <Terkhen> I'll keep playing it until andy makes HEQS incompatible with sugar, toffee and stuff like that 20:31:11 * frosch123 is more impressed about 'bags' of sweets, 'tons' of toffee, ... 20:31:29 <planetmaker> hehe :-) 20:31:29 <Eddi|zuHause> the magic.grf needs a parameter that sets to "magic" or "more magic" :p 20:31:50 <frosch123> but imo ogfx+ should replace the cola wells with coffee field or so 20:32:29 <Nite> or just with supplies or magic 20:33:03 * andythenorth considers making all FIRS industries require magic 20:34:05 <Terkhen> you could merge all supplies into a single cargo: stuff 20:34:11 <Terkhen> but magic also sounds good 20:35:10 <Nite> yeah stuff, supplies, things and magic ... and crap ... 20:36:08 <Nite> cya 20:36:16 *** Nite [5472b1fc@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 20:36:41 * Terkhen wonders how they could ban such a pleasant person from openttdcoop 20:38:30 <SmatZ> well, he behaves nicely now 20:39:40 <Terkhen> really not that much :P 20:40:23 <SmatZ> so you were ironical? :p 20:40:47 <Terkhen> :) 20:40:51 <SmatZ> ok :) 20:41:00 <SmatZ> I didn't really read what he wrote :p 20:41:08 <SmatZ> still better than he used to :) 20:41:53 <SmatZ> maybe I should stop typing, it's becoming impossible to decipher what I wrote :p 20:42:11 *** madgerm [~madgerm@i59F5FB1E.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 20:42:52 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:44:10 <planetmaker> any good proposal how to re-write a shell variable from "png pcx wav" to "png|pcx|wav"? 20:44:32 <planetmaker> FILE_SRC_RE := $(shell echo $(FILE_SRC_EXTENSIONS) | tr -s "[:space:]" "|") <-- adds a trailing | which is not quite what I need 20:44:36 *** madgerm [~madgerm@i59F5FB1E.versanet.de] has left #openttd [] 20:45:00 <SmatZ> s/ /|/g 20:45:32 <SmatZ> maybe bash has some special syntax for that 20:45:38 <SmatZ> it can do a lot itself :) 20:45:45 <SmatZ> but to be portable, I would stick with sed... 20:45:52 *** Razmir [~razmir@23.57.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 20:46:03 *** azaghal [~azaghal@109.207.46.46] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:46:12 <planetmaker> SmatZ: that resulted in Source extensions (RE): |nfo tnfo 20:46:23 <planetmaker> using FILE_SRC_RE := $(shell echo $(FILE_SRC_EXTENSIONS) | sed -E "s/[:space:]/|/") 20:46:51 <SmatZ> [22:46:11] <planetmaker> SmatZ: that resulted in Source extensions (RE): |nfo tnfo <== huh? 20:46:59 <planetmaker> yes. Hu?! 20:47:04 <planetmaker> No idea 20:47:07 <SmatZ> I don't know what are you talking about :) 20:47:09 <frosch123> [[:space:]] 20:48:02 <planetmaker> very good point! thank you :-) 20:48:05 <SmatZ> :) 20:48:21 <SmatZ> is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=:space: POSIX? 20:48:30 <SmatZ> AND WHAT IS THAT! 20:48:44 *** Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-77-86-6-43.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 20:49:03 <frosch123> i spend 1 hour today to figure out how pipe stdin to stdout while inserting something at the beginning and something at the end... in the end it was too easy :p 20:49:11 <SmatZ> is Konversation trying to be outsmart me? 20:49:20 <SmatZ> -be 20:49:29 <SmatZ> [22:47:08] <frosch123> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=:space: <== pasting this 20:49:36 <SmatZ> results in a search link 20:49:38 <SmatZ> mmmm 20:49:44 <SmatZ> silly Konversation 20:49:56 <planetmaker> :-D 20:50:14 <frosch123> [[ might do some wiki link :p 20:50:24 <frosch123> check your input/output replacements :) 20:50:32 <SmatZ> [22:47:08] <frosch123> [[:space:]] <== pasting this 20:50:39 <SmatZ> fine now :) 20:50:47 <SmatZ> yeah, it has some strange default setting 20:51:03 <frosch123> iirc there are some defaults like [lmtf:bla] resulting in some link 20:51:26 * SmatZ learns new things every day :) 20:52:40 <frosch123> i once configured a rule for fs#123 resulting in some link 20:52:53 <SmatZ> @fs 123 20:52:53 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/123 20:52:54 <frosch123> but the result was just too bloatet 20:52:55 <SmatZ> :) 20:53:12 *** Sacro [~ben@83.100.250.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:53:57 <SmatZ> wallyweb is like, 65 years old? wow :) 20:55:15 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:55:58 <Razmir> Hi, can someone give me advice please? I did everything step by step from compiling manual here: http://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_MinGW Everything seemed OK (no errors), but when I want to compile OpenTTD, "configure" can't find zlib: "checking zlib... not found"... 20:56:17 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I might adjust the Blacksmith a little 20:56:24 <andythenorth> or is that fooling with cargo chains? 20:56:28 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 20:57:09 <frosch123> Razmir: get openttd_useful.zip 20:57:30 <planetmaker> :-) andythenorth you mean adding an industry there and having the blacksmith accept metal? 20:57:41 <Rubidium> frosch123: that's not quite for mingw 20:57:45 <Razmir> I compiled zlib in MinGW 20:57:47 <andythenorth> no, I mean changing the name of blacksmith, and maybe swapping coal for wood 20:57:54 <andythenorth> I have to think about the latter part 20:57:55 * frosch123 shuts up :) 20:58:06 * Rubidium hopes Terkhen can help Razmir :) 20:58:31 * Razmir hopes too 20:58:34 * andythenorth ponders how cargo chain display in-game could be connected to minimap 20:58:51 <frosch123> andythenorth: btw. some certain fs task could need a testgrf for nforenum+grfcodec+ottd testing 20:58:52 * SmatZ recommends andythenorth to ask Alberth 20:58:59 <Terkhen> I'll try :) 20:59:00 <planetmaker> oh, what do you rename the blacksmith to, andythenorth ? 20:59:03 <andythenorth> forge 20:59:14 <SmatZ> andythenorth: maybe that was place with too little buttons... 20:59:27 <frosch123> the cargo chain display is already connected to the minimap 20:59:33 <planetmaker> well. why not? :-) 20:59:41 *** X-2 [~Xaer0@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:44 <Terkhen> Razmir: is zlib.h in the C:\MinGW\include folder? 20:59:47 <andythenorth> hmm 20:59:55 <andythenorth> frosch123: which fs task? 21:00:04 <SmatZ> andythenorth: well, some people open the map to find industries between which they can transport cargo - and the ind. chain is useful there 21:00:06 <planetmaker> andythenorth: without. In trunk 21:00:16 <frosch123> the one with "i have a test grf" but no attachment :) 21:00:24 <andythenorth> ships 21:00:26 <planetmaker> oh. andythenorth your FISH ticket 21:00:37 <planetmaker> with the water classes 21:00:42 <andythenorth> yeah, I reverted the changes and didn't save the grf 21:00:46 <andythenorth> I'll remake it tomorrow 21:00:51 <frosch123> :o 21:00:58 <planetmaker> :-| 21:01:13 <planetmaker> always attach test grfs immediately to the fs task 21:01:29 <planetmaker> or save at least the changes as diff 21:01:38 <planetmaker> to the source 21:02:19 <andythenorth> I learnt that :P 21:02:27 <andythenorth> it's a trivial change, I'll do it now 21:10:58 <andythenorth> done 21:11:10 <planetmaker> http://pastebin.org/949632 <-- another regex question. Why... does it return the truncated filenames? 21:11:22 <planetmaker> it should match only on the two extensions I give... 21:11:31 <planetmaker> but I seem to miss something 21:13:38 <frosch123> [png|pcx] -> \(png\|pcx\) 21:14:52 <planetmaker> :) thank you very much again! :-) 21:15:10 <frosch123> you escapes look weird in the first [ ] too 21:15:13 <frosch123> +r 21:15:51 <planetmaker> but they work cross-platform 21:16:28 <planetmaker> somehow some linux don't like unescaped _-/ 21:16:36 *** Klanticus [~quassel@200-161-120-132.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:16:54 <planetmaker> my bash / make here is fine with both 21:17:17 <frosch123> oh, you use -E, maybe then (png|pcx) suffices 21:17:23 <planetmaker> yes it does 21:19:02 <frosch123> hmm, can someone imagine a c macro "RAW(b)" which expands to "b" for b != 0, but "'\', 0" for b == 0 :o 21:19:07 * andythenorth ponders 21:19:28 <frosch123> i.e. just copies "b", but escapes "0" :) 21:20:25 <planetmaker> puh... 21:20:37 <frosch123> i guess not possible :) 21:20:40 <andythenorth> if wood was used as fuel....'wood' or 'lumber'? 21:21:02 <andythenorth> i.e. forest -> wood -> forge 21:21:10 <andythenorth> or forest -> sawmill -> lumber -> forge 21:21:21 *** Chrill [~Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 21:25:14 * Razmir thanks Terkhen for his help 21:25:27 <Terkhen> thank me once it works :P 21:25:50 <Razmir> well, thanks for trying :) 21:25:52 <dihedral> ^^ 21:26:32 *** TruePikachu [~chris@cpe-67-49-42-88.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 21:26:38 <glx> Razmir: you ran make install after zlib compilation ? 21:27:40 <Terkhen> glx: ./configure finds zlib with trunk checked out with mercurial, fails with 1.0.4 source manually downloaded 21:28:02 <glx> weird 21:28:15 <Terkhen> indeed, I'll do further tests 21:32:31 <Rubidium> nah, some "search paths" got added to trunk's config.lib 21:33:25 <Terkhen> I see, I only checked for changes in configure :) 21:34:01 <andythenorth> brrr 21:34:15 <Terkhen> then it should only be a matter of changing the prefixes at the tutorial 21:34:17 <andythenorth> designing cargo chains for early games is....tricky 21:34:39 <Belugas> hoho... i'm late... 21:34:40 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 21:34:42 <Belugas> bye ! 21:37:35 <Razmir> glx: I went with the manual, output of make is here: http://pastebin.com/PVM3FrKB 21:38:21 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:39:10 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 21:41:09 <glx> Razmir: so it's installed in mingw install 21:44:04 *** thvdburgt [~thvdburgt@banning.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:46:03 <andythenorth> hmm 21:46:17 <andythenorth> wood for fuel doesn't particularly need a sawmill 21:48:53 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:49:34 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... you don't usually burn whole logs :p 21:50:15 <andythenorth> but wood cutters might chop kindling in the wood? 21:50:43 <andythenorth> in the fairy tales, the wood cutter is always coming back from the forest with firewood when the wolf turns up (or whatever) 21:50:54 <andythenorth> he's never on his way to the sawmill with a forty foot log 21:51:38 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:08 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: what do you think? http://tt-foundry.com/misc/forge.png 21:54:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a feeling the woodcutter in the americanized version has a different cultural connotation than the "Förster" in the germann fairy tale 21:54:34 <dihedral> :-D 21:54:38 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:56:08 <andythenorth> I could (annoyingly) randomise the acceptance between coal and wood 21:57:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure if it should be wood or processed wood 21:58:08 <Eddi|zuHause> but leaving out coal should be fine 21:59:45 <andythenorth> I could randomise it according to build date 21:59:49 <andythenorth> but again...annoying? 21:59:57 <Terkhen> IMO yes 22:00:42 <andythenorth> it could be consistent according to build date? 22:01:19 <andythenorth> I think it's annoying when you build a whole chain without checking acceptance, then find the chain isn't what you planned 22:01:30 <andythenorth> so varying acceptance is bad 22:06:54 <beyre83> intresting Eddi|zuHause 22:07:05 <beyre83> my screen problem has gotten worse since i photographed it 22:07:12 <beyre83> even tho its been turned off and unpluged 22:07:16 <beyre83> its spreading 22:07:28 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc0109.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 22:12:42 <dihedral> you remind me of my mother - she claimed her tv had a better picture ever since she bought that new remote 22:12:59 <beyre83> dihedral: i have photographic evidence 22:13:04 <beyre83> that shows its spreading 22:15:11 <beyre83> i can provide the photo's if you wanna see 22:15:25 <dihedral> why would _i_ care? 22:15:39 <beyre83> well then dont say i am imgaining it then 22:15:48 <beyre83> because i have the evidence to back up its getting worse 22:16:06 <Terkhen> hmm... 22:16:10 <dihedral> i never said you had no evidence! 22:16:28 * Terkhen now understands a lot of confusing things about the old method 22:16:30 <dihedral> can you please take stuff with a smile?? 22:16:40 <beyre83> but compairing me to your mother? 22:16:52 * dihedral tends to his ignore list 22:17:43 *** beyre83 [4e9390ea@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: waste of time being here] 22:19:02 <andythenorth> good night 22:19:04 *** andythenorth [~andytheno@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 22:20:56 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.50.108] has joined #openttd 22:23:23 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has quit [Quit: Quit] 22:27:32 *** Devroush|2 [~dennis@94-225-67-91.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 22:27:55 *** Noldo [vheino@jumi.lut.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:28:29 * fonsinchen tends to ignore her list. 22:29:10 <Eddi|zuHause> damn nick colours! 22:29:11 *** Noldo [vheino@jumi.lut.fi] has joined #openttd 22:29:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i just thought frosch123 said that 22:30:56 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-67-91.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:32:37 <frosch123> only because of the f ? 22:33:03 <Rubidium> nah, also the o, s, c and h 22:33:07 <SmatZ> and the green 22:33:38 <frosch123> actually, i never knew my colour, just left the default :) 22:34:08 <frosch123> but green fits 22:34:14 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D427.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:37 <SmatZ> http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/frochs.png :) 22:34:51 <SmatZ> you can change your colour? 22:34:59 <SmatZ> what colour do I have? 22:35:06 *** avdg [~Adium@94-227-100-192.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:35:06 <frosch123> like eddi 22:35:29 <SmatZ> ow :( 22:35:30 *** Vitus [~chatzilla@138.194.wms.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:35:38 <frosch123> :p 22:35:38 <SmatZ> I woudl prefer dark blue 22:35:50 <Rubidium> everyone's light gray! :) 22:36:23 <SmatZ> hehe :) 22:37:43 <SmatZ> hmm not long time ago I was using 1600x1200 on my 21" CRT 22:37:48 <SmatZ> now I am using 1024x768... 22:38:02 <SmatZ> either my eyes got worse, or the monitor is going to die :p 22:38:21 <SmatZ> the picture is hard to read in higher resolutions now 22:38:43 <Rubidium> maybe X thinks it's a LCD monitor? 22:39:02 <Rubidium> and does that cleartype or whatever it's called trick 22:39:11 <SmatZ> I don't know 22:39:29 <SmatZ> though I have 150Hz this way - only 85Hz @1600x1200 22:40:08 <SmatZ> it's badly readable only in the centre 22:40:17 <SmatZ> or "lower centre" 22:40:34 <SmatZ> bah @ CRT monitors... 22:40:46 <SmatZ> it cost ~500E few years ago 22:40:56 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-088-076-104-092.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:41:07 <SmatZ> now it's worth <100E 22:41:31 <frosch123> rather < 30⬠? 22:41:42 <SmatZ> quite possibly :) 22:42:18 <frosch123> oh, two years ago i saw an offer on some pinboard at university: 14'' crt for 50 ⬠:p 22:42:44 <SmatZ> hehe :) 22:45:35 <SmatZ> I should sell all the computer "junk" I have before it gets really worthless... 22:45:58 <SmatZ> 2400+ AthlonXP, nVidia 7600GT AGP, ... 22:46:07 <SmatZ> MB died in that computer 22:46:22 <frosch123> keep the stuff which you can hardly get in new, like connectors for serial ports or so :) 22:46:32 <SmatZ> (not talking about those various ISA cards...) 22:46:38 <SmatZ> :) 22:46:49 <dihedral> what did you just mention of 'really worthless'? 22:46:52 <dihedral> :-P 22:46:58 <frosch123> or scsi controllers 22:47:16 <SmatZ> I got several internal ZIP100 drives 22:47:21 <SmatZ> I got them for free... 22:47:28 <frosch123> several? 22:47:34 <SmatZ> about 4 22:47:35 <frosch123> why did you take several of them :o 22:47:35 <dihedral> :-D 22:47:40 <SmatZ> they were free 22:47:41 <SmatZ> :) 22:47:44 <dihedral> RAID :-P 22:47:48 <SmatZ> :D 22:48:08 <SmatZ> whooping 400MB of capacity ;0 22:48:10 <SmatZ> :) 22:48:13 <frosch123> SmatZ: do you need some media for them? original iomega, still packaged? 22:48:19 <frosch123> i have around 10 :p 22:48:20 <Rubidium> how quaint :) 22:48:28 <glevans2> where? 22:48:32 <SmatZ> frosch123: I have some, too :) 22:48:41 <SmatZ> if you want to get rid of them... I would take it :) 22:48:42 * Rubidium only has some CDs (the ones that came with my laptop) 22:49:09 <SmatZ> I would need one "slim" CD for his old (Pentium 133) notebook :p 22:49:22 <SmatZ> the drive died after I tried to boot some live distro... 22:49:27 <SmatZ> a lot of seeking probably 22:49:49 <Rubidium> network boot rules :) 22:49:58 <SmatZ> it has no network card :( 22:50:32 <SmatZ> I used to run TTDPatch there 22:50:35 <Rubidium> oh... then you need such PCMCIA network card and whether it can boot from that remains to be seen 22:50:47 <SmatZ> yeah... 22:54:26 <Rubidium> http://www.old-computers.com/museum/photos/sharp_pc-7000_1.jpg <- oh... memories 22:54:31 *** Chrill [~Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:56:27 <SmatZ> 8-) 22:56:41 <SmatZ> XT? 22:56:48 <SmatZ> I haven't had such computer :) 22:57:14 <frosch123> does not look like a xt keyboard, rather older 22:57:41 <Rubidium> by my memories it must've been the 1985 model PC-7000 of Sharp 22:58:10 <SmatZ> I would say it looks like XT keyboard, it has only F1-F10, no cursor keys... 22:58:22 <SmatZ> but my experience is zero, I have only theory :p 22:58:30 <ccfreak2k> Interesting menu key on the bottom right. 22:58:57 <frosch123> SmatZ: but iirc it lacks some stuff from the xt keyboard 22:59:12 <SmatZ> http://www.computerhope.com/jargon/p/pcxtkeyb.gif 23:00:23 <SmatZ> seems to be the same, with a bit different layout 23:00:39 <SmatZ> esp. Esc 23:01:35 <frosch123> oops, i confused xt and at :s 23:01:58 <SmatZ> :) 23:02:18 *** Devroush|2 [~dennis@94-225-67-91.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:02:21 <frosch123> esc at numblock is at 23:02:49 * Rubidium wonders what he actually did on the machine though 23:02:51 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:03:12 <frosch123> also the huge return and rightshift is at 23:03:33 <SmatZ> AT keyboard is what we use now :) 23:03:52 <frosch123> except the position of the f-keys it fits completely the image in by book 23:03:58 <SmatZ> :) 23:03:58 <frosch123> SmatZ: nope, MF II 23:04:19 <SmatZ> frosch123: some extended AT? 23:04:44 <SmatZ> what is the advantage of MF II over AT? 23:04:49 <frosch123> yes, at and mf ii are compatible 23:04:54 <frosch123> xt and at are not 23:05:22 <SmatZ> different scancodes? 23:05:32 <frosch123> at has no f11, f12, and no additional cursor block etc 23:05:55 <frosch123> basically only those keys without the e2 extended codes 23:05:58 <SmatZ> no F11, F12? hmm 23:06:45 <GecK> good night 23:06:47 <SmatZ> ok 23:06:47 *** GecK [Geck@pro75-3-82-229-184-63.fbx.proxad.net] has left #openttd [] 23:06:51 <SmatZ> wiki agrees :) 23:06:59 <SmatZ> but my other docs don't 23:07:01 <SmatZ> :( 23:07:24 * frosch123 just wanted to link wiki 23:07:31 <SmatZ> but those are quite old, from early 90's 23:07:38 <SmatZ> maybe the terminology changed since then 23:07:58 *** Zuu [Leif@c-91f0e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:08:11 <Terkhen> good night 23:08:21 <frosch123> well, i had a mf ii keyboard, which had a switch for at/xt on the back :) 23:08:40 <SmatZ> good night, Terkhen 23:08:49 <SmatZ> yeah, I got that keyboard too :) 23:08:57 <SmatZ> from ~1991 23:09:04 <SmatZ> it still works 23:09:07 <frosch123> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_keyboard#Keyboard_layouts <- lists a lot layouts 23:09:28 <SmatZ> frosch123: I had that very same link open :) 23:12:31 <SmatZ> well, I was wrong 23:12:33 <SmatZ> sorry 23:12:54 <SmatZ> somehow I thought there is only XT/AT 23:13:00 <SmatZ> but there is more than that :) 23:13:04 <SmatZ> good to know 23:13:10 <SmatZ> and my dosc are right 23:13:20 <SmatZ> I just skipped the headline "enhanced keyboard" 23:13:27 <SmatZ> so I thought it belongs to AT :) 23:13:46 *** wollollo [~martin@host86-175-29-208.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:13:53 <frosch123> well, they basically add more useless keys while keeping the useless keys from before 23:14:09 <SmatZ> :) 23:14:31 <SmatZ> I was surprised when a "MAIL" key started Thunderbird in Linux 23:14:53 <SmatZ> and some "multimedia" keyboards have like 20 keys for "play, stop, next, previous, ..." 23:15:07 <frosch123> yeah, i know noone who uses those keys 23:15:34 <SmatZ> few years ago there were keyboards with "sleep" and "poweroff" buttons 23:15:39 <SmatZ> I was at basic school 23:15:46 <SmatZ> and people were pressing those keys to each other 23:15:47 <frosch123> yup, just using such a keyboard :p 23:15:57 <SmatZ> :p 23:16:31 <SmatZ> it happened to me someone turned off my computer 23:16:35 <SmatZ> I wasn't happy :) 23:16:48 <frosch123> after the second time something fall on the "poweroff" button, i glued a paper carton over them :p 23:16:49 * Rubidium uses the "eject cd" of those "media" buttons 23:16:59 <SmatZ> :D 23:17:01 <SmatZ> :) 23:17:03 * Rubidium also ejects himself from this conversation 23:17:08 <SmatZ> good night, Rubidium 23:17:18 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:17:23 <glx> these 2 keys don't work on win7, but on winXP I told windows to ask me what to do 23:17:38 <SmatZ> :) 23:18:15 <frosch123> they don't work in win7? does that mean ms removed support for them because too many were annoyed? 23:18:39 <SmatZ> hehe 23:18:43 <SmatZ> I thought the same :) 23:18:57 <glx> or I didn't find where to configure that 23:19:30 <frosch123> well, not working by default is impessive enough :) 23:19:36 <SmatZ> :) 23:19:50 <glx> ha no, I disabled them because there's no "ask me" option 23:19:57 <frosch123> :p 23:20:12 *** Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-77-86-6-43.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:20:28 <glx> so for my usage they don't work 23:20:52 <glx> especially where they are located (above print screen and pause) 23:21:22 <frosch123> yeah, the useless keys keep to stick together :p 23:21:46 <SmatZ> :) 23:21:52 <glx> I use pause (windows-pause is a useful shortcut) 23:22:03 <SmatZ> glx: what does it do? 23:22:10 <frosch123> system settings or so? right? 23:22:17 <glx> yes 23:22:58 <glx> and ctrl-pause to break compilation in MSVC 23:23:10 <glx> or is it alt 23:23:19 <frosch123> he, that is a dos hotkey for ctrl+c :p 23:23:30 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe83de00-38.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 23:23:53 <SmatZ> :) 23:24:33 <SmatZ> Scroll Lock? Sys Rq? Break? 23:25:02 * SmatZ tests if ScrollLock works 23:25:02 <frosch123> interestingly all lock-keys are useless :p 23:25:06 <SmatZ> :) 23:25:17 <SmatZ> true, I am only angry when NumLock is off 23:25:25 <SmatZ> which is for some reason by default at linux 23:25:25 <frosch123> scrollock stops console output in linux 23:25:41 <SmatZ> indeed, scrolllock works 23:25:45 <SmatZ> I am surprised :) 23:25:51 <frosch123> same as ctrl+s or so 23:25:58 <SmatZ> sysrq should be useful for kernel debugging 23:26:13 <frosch123> SmatZ: numlock state is set somewhere in /etc 23:26:15 <SmatZ> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key 23:26:24 <frosch123> int5 or so :) 23:27:26 <SmatZ> reminds me of something, yes :) 23:29:52 <frosch123> so does ctrl+alt+sysrq f save you from tb posting one of his favorite images? 23:30:36 <SmatZ> tb's favorite images? 23:30:47 <frosch123> giant screenshots of 2kx2k maps :) 23:31:03 <SmatZ> ;D 23:31:13 <SpComb> add more swap 23:31:23 <glx> frosch123: not that big :) 23:31:46 <glx> mapgen heightmap are nice too 23:32:03 <SmatZ> I have few times considered turning off swap - system gets too sluggish when it starts swapping 23:32:14 <SmatZ> so it might be better to let OOM killer do its job :p 23:32:15 <frosch123> @calc 2048 * 64 * 2048*32 * 4 / 1024 / 1024 / 1024 23:32:15 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 32 23:32:26 <SmatZ> :) 23:32:27 <frosch123> 32 gb as decompressed realcolor 23:33:00 <SpComb> pf, 32bpp 23:33:10 <SmatZ> tile is 64x32? 23:33:14 <frosch123> yes 23:33:57 <SmatZ> it looks much smaller 23:34:03 <SmatZ> but it's true 23:34:33 <SmatZ> given subcoord is only 0-15 23:40:11 *** Chrill [Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 23:47:04 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.10.87.89] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 23:47:58 *** TomyLobo [~foo@port-212-202-171-176.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 23:48:08 <Eddi|zuHause> the subcoord grid is not 1 pixel 23:48:22 <Eddi|zuHause> it's more like two left and one up 23:48:41 <Eddi|zuHause> (or similar in other directions) 23:51:49 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF820E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:52:32 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc0109.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:11 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-77-86-6-43.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 23:55:58 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ]