Log for #openttd on 18th September 2010:
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06:06:56  <andythenorth> morning
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06:44:59  <Muxy> morning kiss
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06:56:03  <andythenorth> @seen frosch123
06:56:03  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: frosch123 was last seen in #openttd 7 hours, 22 minutes, and 49 seconds ago: <frosch123> yes
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07:25:20  <GecK> hi
07:31:19  <Terkhen> good morning
07:32:23  <robotboy> hello
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07:46:18  <SERGEY_ZP> Please, look at this pageØòàá/Ru , there are no RU flag, but on EN page both flags are present. What I do wrong on RU page?
07:50:29  <Eddi|zuHause> SERGEY_ZP: you don't have unicode set up, so we can't read the first link
07:51:04  <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: you can go there from the second link, just click the russian flag
07:51:15  <Yexo>
07:51:20  <Yexo> ^^ does that work for you?
07:51:21  <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: yes
07:51:40  <Yexo> the strange thing is that it works if you go to edit page, preview
07:52:41  <SERGEY_ZP> yes, work
07:53:34  <Eddi|zuHause> SERGEY_ZP: i don't see anything obviously wrong. maybe it's a bug in the wiki
07:54:07  <SERGEY_ZP> ok, thanks
07:55:16  * andythenorth proposes a new cb
07:55:29  <andythenorth>
07:58:26  <dihedral> morning....
07:58:54  <VVG> actual link lists /Ru with R uppercase, while in edit it's lowercase, does that matter? if you go to /ru link, page does not exists
07:59:17  <dihedral> andythenorth, are you sure you want the first word in your forum thread title to be "Request"?
07:59:50  <dihedral> VVG, i assume that's the wiki right?
07:59:58  <dihedral> iirc all pages start with an uppercase letter
08:00:03  <andythenorth> dihedral: I've changed it to proposal
08:00:14  <dihedral> much better
08:00:23  <dihedral> the other word kinda is asking for 'flames' :-P
08:01:49  <SERGEY_ZP> Thanks for help VVG
08:02:31  <SERGEY_ZP> tag language_page=ru must be uppercase language_page=Ru
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08:02:53  <Wolf01> morning
08:03:41  <VVG> Did you save your page? I don't see any difference and in edit preview it worked before anyway
08:04:18  <SERGEY_ZP> i save page several seconds ago
08:04:19  <Eddi|zuHause> the page shows correctly now
08:04:25  <VVG> yeah, just saw it
08:05:41  <planetmaker> good morning
08:06:51  * dihedral hopes that is not all google translate :-D
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08:07:35  <dihedral> good morning planetmaker
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08:10:11  <planetmaker> hey dihedral
08:19:03  <planetmaker> hm... spammers in the forums
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08:20:01  <Eddi|zuHause> <SERGEY_ZP> tag language_page=ru must be uppercase language_page=Ru <-- now i'm convinced that it's a bug/missing feature in the wiki...
08:20:46  <Eddi|zuHause> all wikis i know should be case-agnostic in the first letter...
08:21:45  <SERGEY_ZP> i agree whith you
08:22:23  <robotboy> we seem to be getting a bit more spam on the forums lately during your night
08:22:24  <SERGEY_ZP> in other pages this tag used like language_page=ru and there no problems
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08:34:11  <VVG> that's certainly curious. i browsed through a few russian pages and all work properly with lower case language_page
08:34:40  <VVG> if i knew before they should work with lower case, i wouldn't ever guesses uppercase might matter :9
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08:38:56  <SERGEY_ZP>  :)
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09:13:32  <Eddi|zuHause> how much power should a PSU in a decent PC give?
09:13:55  <Eddi|zuHause> ... i mean they offer from 350W to 1000W...
09:14:08  <dihedral> 350 may cause issues, depending whats inside
09:14:16  <dihedral> 1000W is overkill (mostely)
09:14:23  <Eddi|zuHause> exactly
09:14:28  <Eddi|zuHause> but what's the "right" amount?
09:14:30  <dihedral> however, the PSU will only drain what it needs
09:14:42  <dihedral> for the 'right' amount you could start calculating
09:14:54  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: the answer to mb is 'bloomsmith' :P
09:14:55  <dihedral> usually you will be provided with those details when buying components :-P
09:14:57  <Eddi|zuHause> well, PSUs tend to have a bad conversion ratio when not at full load
09:15:22  <dihedral> there is a psu out there with 85% efficiency
09:16:46  <planetmaker> andythenorth: my dictionary doesn't have that :-(
09:17:11  <Terkhen> wikipedia redirects me to "blacksmith"
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09:21:18  <Eddi|zuHause> ... so does 430W suffice or should i rather go for 500W?
09:21:22  <andythenorth>
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09:45:59  <ccfreak2k> Eddi|zuHause, depends on how much wattage all your components draw.
09:46:25  <ccfreak2k> Also the "conversion ratio" is power factor.
09:46:47  <ccfreak2k> Sometimes just shortened to "x% efficiency at y watts".
10:29:32  * dihedral enjoys generics in java ^^
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10:38:10  <ccfreak2k> If you're feeling adventurous, you could poke at the wires in your PSU with an ammeter.
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10:40:20  * Zuu "enjoys" making a powerpoint presentation :-p
10:41:23  <dihedral> ouch
10:45:25  <planetmaker> keynotes :-P
10:46:01  <planetmaker> which reminds me... I need to prepare my justification to visit SmatZ :-P
10:46:07  <planetmaker> damn
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10:53:22  <LunarWolf> hi
10:53:30  <LunarWolf> a neded help
10:53:49  <LunarWolf> I serrching graf ECS vector
10:54:12  <Alberth> isn't that on bananas?
10:54:40  <Alberth> (main menu -> online content -> type "ECS" in the search box
10:54:43  <Alberth> )
10:55:29  <planetmaker> it is
10:55:45  <LunarWolf> some graphics will not work because the lack of any ECS Vector
10:56:40  <Alberth> I don't understand that, what does "some graphics will not work" mean ?
10:57:19  <Alberth> perhaps post a picture at some imagebin ?
10:58:45  <Terkhen> LunarWolf: the vectors have to be added to the newgrf list in order
10:59:13  <LunarWolf> sry
10:59:55  <Terkhen> I don't remember which order, though :)
11:00:08  <VVG> afaik, town vector should first one out of all vectors, all others come after it
11:00:16  <VVG> should be*
11:00:26  <Terkhen> town -> basic -> all others IIRC
11:00:27  <Eddi|zuHause> they should be sorted by grf-id
11:00:46  <Eddi|zuHause> and you probably shouldn't add all of them
11:01:20  <LunarWolf> Error when booting graph: ECS Town vector must be loaded before ECS Agricultural vector.
11:01:35  <VVG> read up a few lines back
11:02:25  <Alberth> from the main menu, open the newgrf window, click on 'ECS town' and click at 'move up' until it is the first of the ECS grfs
11:03:26  <LunarWolf> omg
11:03:56  <LunarWolf> landing sequence
11:04:00  <LunarWolf> thanx
11:04:22  <VVG> wasn't it obvious from that error message?
11:05:09  <LunarWolf> yes, rearranged, and it's working
11:05:56  <planetmaker> VVG: that involves reading!
11:06:02  <Terkhen> :)
11:06:37  <planetmaker> reading comprehension. A skill ... vastly overestimated in default users
11:06:42  <planetmaker> (sorry, I'm mean, I know)
11:07:20  <LunarWolf> PS. For me, joined the college and doing something to expedite the 32bpp graphics
11:07:31  <planetmaker> I guess for the same reason all other red warning boxes in OpenTTD are also ignored. Click. Oh was there something?
11:07:37  <planetmaker> Never seen a thing...
11:07:46  <dihedral> interesting - selling a share on a network game, executes the CmdSellShare command twice...?
11:08:10  <Alberth> one for test, and one for doing?
11:08:31  <dihedral> ah - crap :-D
11:08:38  <planetmaker> but... does it need testing?
11:08:55  <planetmaker> buying: yes. But selling?
11:08:59  <Rubidium> selling shares you don't have?
11:09:03  <Alberth> you may not have enough money :p
11:09:06  <planetmaker> of course :-P
11:09:09  <Rubidium> selling shares in non-existant companies?
11:09:18  <dihedral> then i was sitting at the wrong line with my function call :-D
11:09:25  <planetmaker> Rubidium: it would even be realistic! :-P
11:09:42  <dihedral> planetmaker, shh, don't mention that word - you'll unleash the tiger
11:09:47  <planetmaker> trallala :-)
11:10:07  <planetmaker> dihedral: no worries. I'm plonked by that realism person ;-)
11:10:14  <Terkhen> it's safe unless you say it three times :P
11:10:38  <LunarWolf> I have done: OTTD LightSetup for maya 2011, anyone wants?
11:10:42  <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: all 'Cmd's have an "if (DC_EXEC)" block
11:11:09  <dihedral> just noticed :)
11:11:11  <dihedral> thanks though
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11:13:39  <LunarWolf> How to test everything, then I'll throw tutorial and forum.
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11:14:13  <dihedral> talking of which - where would you like documentation Rubidium ? :-P
11:14:18  <fjb> Moin
11:17:49  <LunarWolf> Fish + Port 32bpp incoming :P
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11:32:55  <andythenorth> ^ ??
11:35:48  <LunarWolf> working on a graphic, This will in turn - Fish, Pord+addons, all ECS
11:36:15  <LunarWolf> Port*
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11:36:41  <andythenorth> I didn't 100% understand that, but nvm
11:36:44  <Alberth> 32bpp support for newgrf?
11:41:23  * andythenorth wonders how many colours of church there are in default graphics
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11:42:02  * andythenorth thinks a thatched roof on a forge might not be the wisest idea
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11:43:07  * Hirundo guesses there is only one church sprite + a bunch of recolour sprites
11:48:09  <fjb> What are "lickable pixels"?
11:48:56  <andythenorth> it's a phrase borrowed from Steve Jobs and highly not original :|
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11:50:45  * andythenorth wonders if Lunarwolf is recreating Fish ships in Maya
11:51:02  <andythenorth> that would be....interesting.  As most of the ships are based on 3D renders :P
11:51:08  <fjb> But what is the meaning of that phrase?
11:51:39  <andythenorth> they look so tasty you want to lick the screen
11:53:25  <fjb> Oh no...
11:56:04  <planetmaker> andythenorth: three colours
11:56:09  <planetmaker> using re-colour property
11:56:20  <andythenorth> thanks
11:57:15  <fjb> Hm, now there are at leat three railway track sets. Which one to use?
11:57:27  <planetmaker> fjb: of course swedish rails :-P
11:57:48  <fjb> Ah, yes, I would have guessed that answer. :)
11:57:54  <planetmaker> </shameless plug> ;-)
11:58:06  <planetmaker> it really depends what you want
11:58:17  <planetmaker> nutracks has A LOT of track types
11:58:24  <planetmaker> se rails just re-defines rail an e-rail
11:58:33  <fjb> So what is the diffenrence in this sets?
11:58:37  <planetmaker> the uk tracks modify the rails to narrow gauge
11:58:51  <fjb> Hm, that answers ma question.
11:58:52  <planetmaker> metro tracks add a 3rd rail. Usable with some train sets
11:59:00  <planetmaker> trans rapid is clear, too
11:59:09  <planetmaker> shanghai maglev is another maglev. Nicer looking
11:59:16  <planetmaker> but those were at least 5 :-P
11:59:42  <planetmaker> Swedish rails offer the best snow support and nice fences ;-)
11:59:45  <fjb> Which of the track sets use the new track set feature? SE tracks, Nutracks and British tracks I guess.
11:59:49  <planetmaker> and: nicest depots :-P
11:59:57  <planetmaker> all of those
12:00:11  <planetmaker> others I didn't consider
12:00:12  <fjb> That is nice.
12:00:29  <Ammler> the special feature of nutracks are different speeds, don't know, if the other support such things
12:00:30  <planetmaker> others are not "worth it anymore" ;-)
12:00:43  <planetmaker> I think the others don't
12:00:57  <planetmaker> besides, you can use nutracks + se rails in parallel
12:01:04  <Ammler> but the graphics might not be complete or perfect ;-)
12:01:07  <planetmaker> but then you'll have the se rails replace the slowest track type
12:01:12  * fjb hopes for a road set feature.
12:01:34  <planetmaker> peter1138 seems to be in hiatus :-(
12:02:27  <fjb> May be he comes back when it gets cold outside.
12:04:53  <fjb> The new NewGRF window is great.
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12:08:23  <fjb> Is UKRS2 playable yet?
12:08:46  <Chris_Booth> UKRS2 is on bananas so i would assume so
12:08:55  <Chris_Booth> was it ever unplayable?
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12:10:55  <fjb> With only some early vehicles I considered it not really playable, only for testers.
12:11:25  <Chris_Booth> fjb that is true it is not complete. it is only a tester
12:11:48  <Chris_Booth> it is not a full UKRS replacement yet
12:12:01  <Chris_Booth> and has no UKRS release date at the moment
12:12:09  <Chris_Booth> this can all be found on pikkas webiste
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12:14:17  <fjb> FIRS and FISH are also not complete but really playable. That is why I asked.
12:16:09  <Chris_Booth> I understand what you are saying fjb. Its a shame you can't use UKRS + UKRS2
12:16:19  <Chris_Booth> then have the nice new sprite for the engines upto 1970
12:16:28  <Chris_Booth> then just the old prites after that
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12:33:41  <Eddi|zuHause> use it with daylength x4 or x8, then you can have long lasting games until 1970
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13:06:02  <fjb> Quak frosch123
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13:07:39  <frosch123> moin fjb :)
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13:21:24  <frosch123> "Froshc, really u are the game developer?? I love you work!!" <- lol
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13:22:10  <SmatZ> :D
13:22:11  <psorek> hi
13:22:22  <psorek> when can i get
13:22:32  <SmatZ> nice to hear that, frosch123 :)
13:22:35  <psorek> rpm pack of openttd 1.0.4?
13:22:41  <Terkhen> :)
13:22:58  <frosch123> SmatZ: in case you haven't seen it
13:22:59  <Terkhen> hi psorek
13:23:09  <SmatZ> :)
13:23:36  <psorek> hi
13:23:41  <psorek> not -rc1
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13:24:34  <frosch123> afaik we do not have rpms, only deb and tgz-ile archives
13:25:10  <frosch123> *tgz-like
13:25:12  <Amis> Hello!
13:25:49  <Terkhen> hello Amis
13:26:20  <Amis> When starting a new game if I set no. of industries to none will no industries be constructed during gameplay?
13:26:44  <SmatZ> Amis: Alberth is working on a patch that will do that, I think
13:27:10  <andythenorth> quak
13:27:10  <Amis> But now it just means I start without industries and later theyll show up
13:27:13  <Amis> right?
13:27:33  <Terkhen> yes
13:27:39  <Amis> Thank you
13:28:02  <heffer> Ammler: will there be a 0.3.1 of opengfx soonish? or should i just patch in my spec file the makefile until 0.3.1 is out?
13:28:36  <Ammler> planetmaker: ^
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13:29:17  <Ammler> afaik, the "issues" are fixed in nightly
13:29:54  <Ammler> except the md5 test
13:30:05  <Ammler> which never was working :-)
13:30:12  <andythenorth> frosch123: how do I forbid a layout but allow the construction routine to try another one?
13:30:48  <frosch123> ottd always tries all layouts
13:30:52  <andythenorth> if I return anything but 0400 to cb 28 the construction will fail
13:31:02  <frosch123> it starts at a random one and then tries all layouts
13:31:09  <andythenorth> hmm
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13:31:15  <andythenorth> and when player funds?
13:31:16  <Ammler> heffer: what would you need to patch?
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13:31:36  <Ammler> the install executable or soemthing else?
13:31:52  <frosch123> the same. if there are n layouts it will start a random first one. then it tests layouts random to n, and then 1 to random - 1
13:31:58  <frosch123> the first one succeeding is build
13:32:07  <heffer> yes they are. that's why i'm asking. i'm just not too keen to package a prerelease version for the official repos
13:32:16  <heffer> the make files
13:32:26  <heffer> they give me some errors about sh getting wrong parameters
13:32:33  <andythenorth> frosch123: thanks.  I might test it later.
13:32:47  <andythenorth> it's not how I understood cb28 to work :o
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13:38:43  <Ammler> heffer: I will ask pm to release a bugfix version this weekend...
13:38:55  <heffer> Ammler: that'd be great, thanks
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13:42:42  <Eddi|zuHause>  <frosch123> the same. if there are n layouts it will start a random first one. then it tests layouts random to n, and then 1 to random - 1 <--- that means "easy" to place layouts should be spread out over the layout-spectrum, not clustered. because the first one in the cluster would get preference
13:43:07  <Eddi|zuHause> similar to how ufos annoyingly always land on the same spot
13:43:24  <Eddi|zuHause> if only a small part of the map is covered with rails
13:43:49  <frosch123> yes
13:44:15  <frosch123> though i am not sure whether you can divide the layouts into easy and hard placeable
13:47:27  <Eddi|zuHause> well, if you think ECS tourist centers, then the castle neuschwanstein is hard placeable :)
13:48:06  <frosch123> rather "not even worth trying"-placeable
13:50:45  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: it's easy if you prepare the land :)
13:51:36  <glx> but yes george was crazy when he wrote this newgrf
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13:53:16  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: actually, just code a method to let newgrfs provide a required landshape, so ottd can terraform for them
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14:02:02  <fjb> Aree there track aware bridges yet?
14:05:58  <azaghal> Track-aware?
14:06:48  <fjb> Track type aware.
14:07:24  <Ammler> the railtype sets do overlay their tracks
14:09:42  <fjb> So they are not usable with a bridge set?
14:09:52  <Ammler> they should
14:10:01  <fjb> Ok, I will try.
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14:10:21  <Ammler> it would be better if there are bridge sets without tracks maybe :-)
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14:21:55  <Eddi|zuHause> make one ;)
14:22:05  <Eddi|zuHause> TBRS could use an update
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14:36:11  <fjb> Oh opengfs has hay bales now. :-)
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14:39:17  <fjb> And FIRS has big red somethings...
14:40:03  <frosch123> also blue ones iirc :)
14:40:58  <fjb> Only found the red ones yet. Now looking for the blue.
14:42:08  <fjb> Oh, fishing grounds. Didn't I see some sailing ships on the forum some days ago?
14:42:56  <fjb> Found a kind of purple something.
14:51:44  <Eddi|zuHause> that's the smithery...
14:52:04  <Eddi|zuHause> which accepts iron ore
14:52:09  <Eddi|zuHause> which is a huge scandal!
14:52:46  <Eddi|zuHause> (according to HIM)
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15:07:03  <fjb> Hm? Scandal?
15:08:26  <Eddi|zuHause> well... you know HIM ;)
15:08:32  <fjb> Windmills!
15:09:04  <fjb> Which of the HIMs I'm now thinking of?
15:09:22  <fjb> The ECS inventor?
15:09:34  <__ln__> The HIM that is listed under "German Rock" or something on PS3's VidZone service?
15:09:53  <Eddi|zuHause> HE whose name shall not be mentioned.
15:10:06  <fjb> So German is not all that wrong.
15:10:24  <__ln__> ah, you mean HIM.
15:10:51  <fjb> But why is it a scandal?
15:11:27  <Eddi|zuHause> because a smith consumes raw iron. raw iron is produced from iron ore in foundaries
15:11:34  <Eddi|zuHause> foundries?
15:11:37  <Eddi|zuHause> whatever
15:11:50  <Eddi|zuHause> it's HUGELY unrealistic
15:14:05  <fjb> The whole game is unrealistic...
15:16:22  *** lobstah is now known as lobster
15:18:31  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: did I miss something?  I was away until just now :P
15:18:47  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: nothing to see here. move along :p
15:19:44  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I did a little historical research
15:20:06  <andythenorth> it's quite plausible for a bloomsmith to both smelt the ore, produce the basic iron blooms, and then work it
15:20:31  <andythenorth> in 1600s north america one smith might have run the whole process
15:24:25  <Eddi|zuHause> well... HIS research on pre-industrial iron processing, iron foundry was usually done close to an iron and wood source (e.g. in 1475 almost 40.000 people in the Oberpfalz [Bavaria] were employed directly or indirectly in iron foundry), while smith-able iron was produced in "hammer-works" usually found along rivers.
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15:26:25  <fjb> Will there be a version of the sand pit with shovel equiped people? :-)
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15:27:18  <andythenorth> fjb: maybe :P
15:27:27  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: ask him if the track gauge is accurate
15:28:16  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly interesting/boring/micromanagement nightmare twist to industry production: large industries from ~1840 to ~1980 need large amounts of people to work properly
15:28:28  <fjb> He cheated with the speed of one EMU in his famous train set...
15:28:54  <Eddi|zuHause> he cheated with more things than that ;)
15:29:16  <fjb> That is the most obvious.
15:29:59  <fjb> Number of pasengers is the other.
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16:00:08  * andythenorth is puzzled
16:00:38  <andythenorth> frosch123: do the return values for this look correct?
16:00:38  <andythenorth>
16:04:30  <frosch123> yes
16:05:41  <andythenorth> ok good
16:05:54  <andythenorth> I always have trouble with things where 00 has to be written as 80 :P
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16:06:21  <andythenorth> thanks
16:07:31  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-83-100-133-50.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
16:07:46  <Eddi|zuHause> need a macro "CALLBACK_RESULT(\w4)" that automatically sets bit 15... but that can't be done with the preprocessor...
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16:14:28  <andythenorth> frosch123: I tested cb28 with some layouts not allowed
16:14:39  <andythenorth> fails :(
16:14:47  <andythenorth> player has to keep trying to build
16:15:49  <andythenorth> one possibility is that I've done it wrong :P
16:17:42  <dihedral> for the german speaking folk out there:
16:20:23  * andythenorth reads source
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16:24:05  <Eddi|zuHause> ok. that does it. /me puts dihedral on The List
16:24:17  <Chris_Booth> the list Eddi|zuHause ?
16:24:21  <dihedral> the ignore list
16:24:29  <dihedral> looks like Eddi totally did not like the link
16:24:30  <Eddi|zuHause> not the list
16:24:32  <Eddi|zuHause> The List
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16:24:41  <Chris_Booth> ooh poor dihedral
16:24:45  <Chris_Booth> I will talk to you dih
16:25:04  <dihedral> as if Eddi|zuHause talked that much with me :-P
16:25:17  <Chris_Booth> lol then its no big loss
16:25:31  <Chris_Booth> I like The List. I am lots of Lists
16:25:42  <andythenorth> brr
16:25:51  * andythenorth looks for code that handles cb28
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16:26:07  <dihedral> shame though - Eddi|zuHause usually has good thoughts regarding patches ^^
16:26:38  <Chris_Booth> dihedral: you are on my List (The coolest person on openTTD list)
16:26:48  * fjb wonders if Eddi|zuHause once had a horn at his nose...
16:27:02  <dihedral> Chris_Booth, that kinda sounds scary
16:27:09  <frosch123> andythenorth: CmdBuildIndustry
16:27:38  <Chris_Booth> Yeah I didn't word that very well did I
16:27:47  <dihedral> nope :-P
16:27:55  <Chris_Booth> maybe I will think befor I type creepy messages next time
16:28:07  <Chris_Booth> otherwise I will end up on Your List
16:28:12  * dihedral wonders if Eddi|zuHause ignored * :-P
16:28:24  <Eddi|zuHause> yes.
16:28:25  <Eddi|zuHause> :P
16:28:29  <dihedral> :-D
16:28:42  <robotboy> gmorning
16:28:49  * robotboy is off to bed now
16:29:00  <Chris_Booth> Fuck just superglued my hand to my shoe
16:29:29  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think your problem is the creepy wording :p
16:29:38  <dihedral> lol
16:29:41  <Chris_Booth> lol nor do i now
16:29:55  <Chris_Booth> don't ever trust a stupent with glue
16:30:36  <Chris_Booth> s/stupent/student
16:31:02  <Chris_Booth> but stupent suits me better after what I just did
16:31:49  <dihedral> i usually get superglue quite well off of my fingers
16:31:58  * fjb imagines how Chris_Booth may be looking right now.
16:31:59  <dihedral> just peels off
16:32:03  <Chris_Booth> I have got it off now
16:32:16  <dihedral> and if all else fails "hornhaut raspel"
16:32:17  <Chris_Booth> put some thinners on it
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16:33:11  * Chris_Booth wonders what the person that invented superglue glued first?
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16:33:58  <andythenorth> frosch123: far as I can see, if cb28 prevents building, CmdBuildIndustry will never get to the layout iterator loop
16:34:06  <andythenorth> but I am just guessing :o
16:36:19  <Guest1209> oi oi =)
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16:36:55  <Xaer0> ugh my irc is doing odd.
16:37:01  <frosch123> hmm, true, cb28 is not inside the loop
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16:37:36  * andythenorth considers trying to patch that locally
16:38:23  <andythenorth> if cb28 happened inside CheckIfIndustryTilesAreFree that might work
16:38:31  <andythenorth> but it would be probably be hideous performance wise
16:38:57  <frosch123> better duplicate cb28 into the loop
16:39:04  <andythenorth> ...if an industry with many layouts checked (e.g.) vary 67 several times during cb28....wouldn't that be bad?
16:39:08  <frosch123> so it is only done when manually placing industries
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16:39:37  <andythenorth> frosch123: I can provide a test grf :D
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16:40:00  <frosch123> performance is only important for randomly placing lots of industries, and that does not need to check all layouts
16:40:31  <frosch123> feel free to create a fs task :)
16:40:51  <andythenorth> what should the task description be?
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16:41:40  <Eddi|zuHause> "With Chuck Norris as actor, '300' would have been called '1'" :p
16:42:19  <dihedral> :-D
16:42:20  <dihedral> nice one
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16:44:31  <Eddi|zuHause> "compilers are like french people. they always yell at you if you don't speak their language perfectly."
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16:45:25  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: but they still do not prevent you talking bs
16:59:34  <fjb> Hm, SMIT and TBRS dislike each other.
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17:04:22  <Eddi|zuHause> what the hell is a SMIT?
17:07:09  <fjb> Shanghai Maglev Inspired Track Set
17:07:38  <Eddi|zuHause> ... never heard of that
17:10:11  <fjb> Nice looking maglev tracks.
17:10:27  <Chris_Booth> sounds cool
17:10:38  <Chris_Booth> will have tgo try smit
17:11:40  <fjb> Be careful when you are using a bridge set.
17:13:19  <X-2> I always take electric trains, but I just disable the electric rails in the settings =) I don't like the maglev if you link 2 different lines together :/
17:14:15  <Chris_Booth> I like Nutracks that is fun
17:14:22  <Chris_Booth> adds a new level to the game
17:14:41  <Eddi|zuHause> the more railtypes we have, the more important it'll get to fit two railtypes in parallel...
17:15:26  <Chris_Booth> or even 3 Eddi|zuHause. For example the new metro lines may be wanted to be mixed with normal rail and Erail
17:15:46  <Chris_Booth> but only for short distances near stations or junctions
17:17:18  <andythenorth> oops :m
17:17:30  <andythenorth> forgot to set the type, version etc. on fs
17:17:42  * andythenorth apologises
17:17:52  <fjb> Bad andythenorth
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17:35:42  <planetmaker> heffer: what problems did you get?
17:36:18  <planetmaker> Ammler: it'd be nice to know _what_ is expected to be fixed...
17:36:42  <planetmaker> *some* problems are always fixed
17:38:02  <Ammler> yes, nightly is fine
17:38:07  <Ammler> except the md5
17:39:00  <planetmaker> Ammler: I didn't see _what_ heffner had problems with
17:39:29  <Ammler> I assume the same as I had?
17:39:43  <Ammler> as it is rpm spec too
17:40:12  <planetmaker> it'd be nice to know, you know...
17:40:24  <planetmaker> assumptions about other people's bug are... prone to fail at times
17:40:31  <Ammler> yep, I thing, I have reported it
17:40:34  <Ammler> think*
17:40:37  <planetmaker> he didn't say
17:41:16  <planetmaker> And I don't appreciate to tell 'it's fixed when not even the problem is clear'. Though the install executable might be his issue, I'm not sure
17:41:30  <planetmaker> Can you please ask next time for the exact error?
17:41:36  <Ammler> that too and the unix2dos
17:41:53  <planetmaker> Having a double bug report doesn't hurt
17:42:16  <planetmaker> or you could ask him to check with trunk.
17:42:45  <planetmaker> if that works. all is fine. And I know that he 'just' wants a tag
17:43:08  <planetmaker> which might make sense in this case :-)
17:43:30  <Ammler> well, I didn't build 0.3.0 either, so I thought, it is the same
17:44:02  <Ammler> you didn't get any feedback from the debian guys?
17:44:23  <planetmaker> debian packager is mathijs / blathijs afaik
17:44:53  <planetmaker> not beyond what the initial ticket is where i copied the irc chat
17:45:02  <Ammler> heffers issue was mainly, if he shall build with the bugs or if it is worth to wait for bugfix release
17:45:17  <planetmaker> my issue is: I like to know what _he_ considers bugs
17:45:26  <Ammler> I told him to ask you for a release this weekend :-)
17:45:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20824 /trunk/src/lang/ (galician.txt unfinished/marathi.txt):
17:45:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: galician - 13 changes by Condex
17:45:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: marathi - 1 changes by jcravi
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17:46:04  <planetmaker> and I ask to please ask for a bug description next time instead of saying blindly 'it's fixed, pm will make a release'
17:46:43  <planetmaker> that may be the answer when the bug is clear. But before I know the issue... it's daring
17:46:52  <Ammler> I didn't say, you will, I said, I will ask you to
17:47:07  <Ammler> so if you don't, it is fine :-P
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17:52:07  <Chrill> so
17:52:20  <Chrill> hm
17:52:23  <Chrill> wrong window, sorry
17:52:38  <Alberth> it's ok to stay here :)
17:52:56  <Chrill> no, I better run off before Rubidium gets hold of me :|
17:53:16  * planetmaker grabs Chrill
17:53:31  <Chrill> :(
17:53:42  <planetmaker> I can be bribed :-P
17:54:11  <Chrill> and you expect me to have in my possession something worth bribing with?
17:54:33  <planetmaker> who knows? ;-)
17:54:38  <Chrill> no
17:54:39  <Alberth> throwing a new planet always works :)
17:54:39  <Chrill> no no no
17:54:40  <Chrill> no :(
17:54:53  * Chrill makes planetmaker a planet?
17:55:09  <Alberth> he collects them :)
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17:55:17  <Chrill>
17:55:43  <planetmaker> hm... empty page for me.
17:55:53  <Chrill> yup
17:55:56  <Chrill> same here
17:56:16  <planetmaker> got the wrong one :-P
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18:19:30  <Adambean> NoSAD spam bot gtfo
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18:30:24  <[hta]specx> hi all
18:30:53  <[hta]specx> planetmaker: willsoon find time to finish patch submission
18:31:00  <planetmaker> ?
18:31:25  <[hta]specx> for the unfinished nmldoc "patch"
18:31:26  <planetmaker> I have a very small short-term memory
18:31:29  <planetmaker> ah :-)
18:31:37  <planetmaker> nice
18:32:01  <planetmaker> you may have noticed that at least one of your images is already part of the docs
18:32:11  <[hta]specx> need some time to ovrview the workflow, then i'll put some more creative stuff in it
18:33:04  <[hta]specx> @seen Rubidium
18:33:04  <DorpsGek> [hta]specx: Rubidium was last seen in #openttd 7 hours, 23 minutes, and 54 seconds ago: <Rubidium> selling shares in non-existant companies?
18:33:36  <planetmaker> oh, he'll love such highlights ;-)
18:34:04  <[hta]specx> ?
18:34:38  <Alberth> highlighting him without need
18:35:16  <Eddi|zuHause> more specifically: without asking a question/other context
18:35:34  <Alberth> if you want him to read something, just enter it in the channel. He'll read it when he is back
18:36:23  *** fonsinchen [] has joined #openttd
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18:36:29  <[hta]specx> => me is "highlighting" (?) when using @seen cmd?
18:37:04  *** avdg [] has joined #openttd
18:37:21  <Alberth> you typed his name, and Dorpsgek answered, again with his name
18:38:03  <Alberth> if you don't want that, don't use the channel, talk to Dorpsgek in private
18:38:09  <[hta]specx> sry, will use prvate
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18:38:54  * Alberth still doesn't understand how @seen is useful at all
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18:40:06  <[hta]specx> Rubidium: nice diff on newcompetition. The problem with competition testing - to test it thorough - is to be able to use it on live servers which are heavily being utilized
18:41:26  <[hta]specx> since in competition algorithm changes, totally unknown effects are possible affecting the competition mechanics of games...
18:44:11  <Rubidium> why do you think I want it to be tested before committing it to trunk and why I've built binaries for it?
18:44:58  <[hta]specx> Im wondering if  current and testing algorhithms can be somehow added to trunk, marked as "testing algo", then over time upgraded to definitive choices, or removed at all
18:46:49  <Alberth> as in the binaries created by RB?
18:47:11  <blathijs> planetmaker: Ammler: Still need feedback on something in particular?
18:47:46  <Rubidium> not without adding stuff to OpenTTD's code that we can't remove later on
18:47:47  <[hta]specx> as in an algo selector in settings, allowing all kinds of algo's to be added to trunk (and therefore tested over longer coninutuos heavy gameplay) and
18:47:47  *** NoSAD [He_boy@] has quit [autokilled: Spamming. Contact for further information and assistance. (2010-09-18 18:47:46)]
18:48:30  <planetmaker> blathijs: mostly it'd be nice if packaging works with current trunk.
18:48:41  <Rubidium> e.g. the setting in the savegame, not to mention the wasted translation effort on the string in the settings
18:48:46  <planetmaker> But... try tomorrow. Not exactly now
18:48:56  <planetmaker> though even now might be helpful :-)
18:49:11  <planetmaker> I haven't yet completely adopted nforenum's system
18:49:14  <[hta]specx> upgraded to "definitive" algo when sufficient docs/testing is put in place
18:49:25  <planetmaker> but you can specify a separate DOCDIR
18:49:49  <Alberth> [hta]specx: rather than polluting trunk, a branch like done already is much better for experimenting imho
18:50:15  <Alberth> that's why branches exist
18:50:30  <[hta]specx> I second that for initial testing
18:50:50  <[hta]specx> no sucking patches in trunk
18:51:06  <planetmaker> that's why it is in the branch ;-)
18:53:19  <[hta]specx> there is a limit on how thorough you can test competition algo on branches, since not everyone plays using branches
18:54:02  <Alberth> so call it trunk with an additional patch
18:54:33  <[hta]specx> limit stays, no matter how you call it
18:54:46  <Rubidium> [hta]specx: and how is trunk different? It's not used for competition as well as far as I can see
18:54:57  <Rubidium> and testing this in 1.0.5 doesn't feel "right" to me
18:54:59  <andythenorth> Alberth: I like @seen
18:55:13  <andythenorth> I use it to figure out if someone might be asleep ;p
18:55:14  <Rubidium> I like @names :)
18:55:25  <planetmaker> [hta]specx: if you like to organize such event, #openttdcoop surely can provide a server
18:55:27  <Rubidium> andythenorth: it doesn't account for siestas
18:55:45  <planetmaker> @names Rubidium
18:55:50  <[hta]specx> better have all servers running with those algo's.
18:55:52  <planetmaker> seems pointless ;-)
18:55:53  <andythenorth> @names planetmaker
18:56:06  <Alberth> @andythenorth  :)
18:56:08  <planetmaker> @names planetmaker
18:56:11  <planetmaker> hm
18:56:17  <[hta]specx> then see how it works out in all the different competition scenario's
18:56:36  <planetmaker> [hta]specx: that obviously is no option
18:56:41  <Chris_Booth> planetmaker: anything ever happen wwottdgd?
18:56:47  <planetmaker> Chris_Booth: no
18:56:51  <blathijs> planetmaker: I'll have a go with the current trunks, but that'll probably be in one or two weeks
18:56:52  <Rubidium> planetmaker: that's because it doesn't work for you; if it does, then it'll list all nicks in the channel
18:57:11  <planetmaker> oh. it's @nicks ?
18:57:40  <Rubidium> apparantly...
18:57:46  <Rubidium>
18:57:49  <Chris_Booth> maybe one day day 3 will be complete planetmaker
18:58:04  <planetmaker> maybe. Hopefully
18:58:30  <Chris_Booth> maybe I will re-incarntant my work on it
18:59:07  <Chris_Booth> but that is less than likely at the moment with my work load
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19:35:39  <eQualizer> OpenTDD sooo heavy on linux. :((( Or then it's just my ooooold laptop. :((((
19:35:53  <eQualizer> Xorg takes all the CPU
19:37:10  <Eddi|zuHause> you're probably missing 2D graphics acceleration
19:37:37  <eQualizer> Could be. But I have no idea how to enable that on Xubuntu.
19:37:53  <Eddi|zuHause> what does glxinfo tell you?
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19:41:00  <eQualizer> What should I look for?
19:42:58  <Eddi|zuHause> something that says "everything is shit!"
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19:52:04  * dihedral "oh my word"'s at forum reply
19:54:30  <Eddi|zuHause> Muxy probably has goal servers in mind...
19:54:44  <Muxy> Muxy has lot of things in mind
19:55:04  <Muxy> and has already a bot
19:55:12  <Eddi|zuHause> Muxy also talks about himself in the third person
19:55:23  <Eddi|zuHause> i think Muxy is himself a bot
19:55:59  <Muxy> aha
19:56:05  <dihedral> "not necessary to have particular protocol [...] use a bot slot (can hide from clients) [...] some extra "bot" paquet can be used"
19:56:07  <Eddi|zuHause> and alone skipping the savegame download needs a separate protocol
19:56:39  <dihedral> that's kinda what made me "oh my word" on it - as the entire post is a bunch of rubbish :-P
19:56:58  <dihedral> unless you try to read 'protocol' as 'network port'
19:57:13  <dihedral> then he could probably mean, run 2 protocols on the same port
19:57:30  <Muxy> Hey Mr Rubish Man is very healthy this evening
19:59:30  <dihedral> oh - he answered....
19:59:44  * Muxy slaps dihedral with a Rubiks Segmentation Fault
19:59:56  <dihedral> i had a nice global ignore :-D
20:00:28  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you need a Rube Goldberg Machine
20:01:02  <dihedral> anyway Muxy, these extra bot packets are what design the protocol, not the port ;-)
20:01:27  <dihedral> and it's exactly these extra bot packets that are in need of careful design
20:01:56  <dihedral> the network port is not in the scope of that thread ^^
20:02:44  *** ^Spike^ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:03:54  <dihedral> meaning: if you have useful ideas as to what may still be changed in those packets, or packets to add, that is welcome
20:04:03  *** rTypo [] has quit []
20:04:38  <dihedral> and you can either post decent stuff, or wait for moderation ;-)
20:07:22  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, i think being a nuisance is his favorite quality, next to being a bot :-P
20:07:37  <dihedral> Muxy, there is also a 'delete' button in case you were looking for that
20:07:37  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess it's bad when in Siedler the Siedler aren't displayed.
20:08:08  <dihedral> :-P
20:08:15  <dihedral> defeats the purpose a little
20:09:10  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, kinda
20:09:30  <Eddi|zuHause> they look so cute ;)
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20:09:49  <dihedral> it's like playing command and conqueror without an army and no base ^^
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20:12:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand what's wrong thoug
20:12:48  <Eddi|zuHause> it's totally lagging, like if 3D acceleration is disabled
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20:14:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know if it's the updating to wine 1.3.1 or my crazy attempts at hacking to circumvent the graphics driver bugs
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20:26:37  <dihedral> i really did have my hopes high that some community members were a bit more mature than that
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20:33:19  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20825 /trunk/src/tree_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Replace a few magic numbers by constants.
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20:34:12  <eQualizer> Oh nice, I found solution why the game was laggy.
20:34:18  <eQualizer> Had something to do with 8bits graphics.
20:34:43  <eQualizer> Worked with this command: openttd -b 32bpp-simple
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20:35:50  <Rubidium> then you're even better of with 32bpp-optimized (it's more efficient than simple)
20:36:28  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20826 /trunk/src/tree_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Simplify code for generating more trees above the snowline.
20:36:43  <Rubidium> in any case, still is some sort of driver issue; the driver not supporting 8 bits graphics and emulating it *really* slowly
20:37:05  <Nite> Hi
20:37:08  <eQualizer> Yeah well, this laptop is 6 years old...
20:37:37  <dihedral> what kind of gpu does it have, and what driver do you have installed?
20:37:40  <eQualizer> Can't really expect much from this. I even had to use ethernet-cable to get this into internet.
20:38:33  <Rubidium> actually, the older the hardware the more likely it natively supports 8 bits graphics
20:39:33  <eQualizer> I'm not actually sure which GPU this laptop has. All I know it's integrated.
20:40:45  <dihedral> integrated in the cpu or directly on the main board (the latter being common for laptops)
20:41:00  <TruePikachu> dihedral: I would assume the motherboard
20:41:09  <TruePikachu> It's like that on desktops too
20:41:21  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20827 /trunk/src/tree_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Simplify code for placement of tree groups.
20:41:35  <dihedral> i would assume so too, however things like AMD Geode do exist
20:41:58  <TruePikachu> I only think that gaming devices (i.e. the Wii Hollywood chip) integrate the GPU with the CPU; that breaks PC archetecture
20:42:14  <dihedral> erm, no
20:42:28  <dihedral> that would not brake the architecture
20:43:04  <TruePikachu> Oh :P well, I've never seen a PC with the GPU in the CPU...
20:43:25  <dihedral> you have a mobile phone?
20:43:34  <dihedral> you have a gpu in the cpu there ;-)
20:43:40  <TruePikachu> Yeah, but that isn't necessairily a PC
20:43:54  <dihedral> some are :-P
20:44:15  <dihedral> my phone has 1GHz, i recall my first computer to be way slower than that :-D
20:44:19  <TruePikachu> Hmm...would an LCD driver count as a GPU?
20:44:24  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20828 /trunk/src/tree_cmd.cpp: -Add: Take into account tree group placement at the world generation progress bar.
20:44:30  <TruePikachu> dihedral: My Linux box is 800MHz
20:46:08  <TruePikachu> eQualizer: My Linux box hardware as circa 2000 (I think...). It's a Dell Optiplex GX150(?)...I have a wireless connection on it.
20:47:13  <Nite> a phone with one ghz - awe didnt know that ...
20:47:19  <TruePikachu> However, IDK if it does 8bpp emulation invisibily, or if it directly supports it
20:47:40  <TruePikachu> Nite: Better than a calculator with ~15MHz
20:48:53  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20829 /trunk/src/tree_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#4094]: Place less trees at once when planting random trees at the scenario editor.
20:49:06  <dihedral> Terkhen, commit spree ;-)
20:49:12  <TruePikachu> lol
20:49:34  <Terkhen> and just for such a relatively small fix
20:49:43  <TruePikachu> All on the same file also :P
20:50:08  <TruePikachu> But I see why you're doint it this way
20:50:18  <TruePikachu> s/doint/doing
20:52:03  <TruePikachu> Hmmm...any approximate backdoor into OpenTTD that would allow for game variables to be read?
20:54:02  <TruePikachu> If so, I could try to write a program for an ajacent computer which will report lots of generic game statistics, similar to what I will eventually do for Flight Sim
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22:32:44  <TruePikachu>
22:33:15  <TruePikachu> **
22:33:25  <TruePikachu> ^^ fix'd
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22:35:13  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:38:14  *** `Fuco` [~dota.keys@] has quit [Quit: Quit]
22:40:20  <Terkhen> good night
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22:49:06  <TruePikachu> do you change a task's niceness/priority from the BASH prompt?
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22:49:32  <frosch123> renice
22:49:39  <TruePikachu> Does that do priority too?
22:50:07  <frosch123> ask "man renice"
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22:50:49  <TruePikachu> renice just changes the priority of tasks
22:51:23  <TruePikachu> Hmmm...I always thought priority and niceness were different
22:52:02  <ccfreak2k> Nope.
22:52:19  <TruePikachu> top shows a column PR and a column NI
22:52:41  <TruePikachu> Wait, PR == 20 + NI :P
22:53:05  <planetmaker> sleep (4800)
22:53:43  <TruePikachu> 'mean' should I make OTTD?
22:53:54  <Rubidium> planetmaker: that's a short night :)
22:53:54  <planetmaker> hm. short :-P
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22:54:42  <planetmaker> sleep 28800
22:54:51  <planetmaker> sounds better ;-)
22:55:43  <Rubidium> nightynight then!
22:55:52  <TruePikachu> does not reply with priority :(
22:55:56  <LaSeandre> 28.8k. that number brings me back.
22:56:05  <TruePikachu> shows init has niceness 0
22:56:30  <TruePikachu> (strange that init has 0, I would expect -15 or so)
22:56:57  <TruePikachu> ...X also has 0...
22:57:12  <TruePikachu> I wonder if -10 would be OK for OpenTTD 1.0.4
22:58:06  <TruePikachu> I mean, I barely understand the concept of parallel operation under different priorities, and I need to keep the TTYs open for usage...
22:58:56  <frosch123> night
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22:59:12  <TruePikachu> If OTTD is being too mean, I won't be able to get to the TTYs; if it is too nice, it will lag a lot like it had been
22:59:47  <TruePikachu> Think there will be any ill effects to renicing it a huge number of times while it's running?
23:01:13  <TruePikachu> I mean, some Windows apps will crash if you change the priority, but that's Windows for you...
23:01:55  * TruePikachu guesses he'll have to risk it
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23:03:06  <TruePikachu> -_- I forgot to change the OpenTTD permissions to 755; still 750...
23:04:02  <TruePikachu> ...and Jukebox is still not working...I'll have to check the config...
23:04:30  <TruePikachu> Hmmm...
23:04:56  <TruePikachu> musicdriver = extmidi:cmd=/usr/bin/aplaymidi -p 17:1
23:09:16  * TruePikachu wishes programs could be smart enough to find a running X server
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23:12:28  <TruePikachu> doesn't look like 1.0.4 forks output
23:12:47  <TruePikachu> Or, if it does, not any music driver errors...
23:14:35  <TruePikachu> musicdriver = extmidi:cmd=/usr/bin/aplaymidi -p 17:1    << any idea what's wrong with this line?
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23:14:51  <TruePikachu> musicdriver = extmidi:cmd=/usr/bin/aplaymidi -p 17:1    << any idea what's wrong with this line?
23:17:49  <TruePikachu> Hmmm...the Wiki isn't exactly being helpful for this...I need a command line parameter for aplaymidi to tell what port number
23:18:21  <TruePikachu> Any chance that aplaymidi is just exiting?
23:18:31  *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:18:37  <TruePikachu> How is the call to the application structured?
23:20:25  *** Devroush [] has quit []
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23:23:21  <TruePikachu> Hmm...still have no idea as to the problem
23:32:03  *** LaSeandre is now known as laseandre-comp
23:33:13  <TruePikachu> I'll restart SCREEN and my login session
23:33:19  *** TruePikachu [] has quit [Quit: Restarting...]
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23:34:23  <TruePikachu> Well, according to the Wiki, it should work now...
23:36:12  *** laseandre-comp is now known as LaSeandre
23:37:38  <TruePikachu> Still having no music...
23:38:17  <TruePikachu> I installed pmidi, set up the sound card, confirmed that pmidi is working, and set up the config file. No luck.
23:38:40  <TruePikachu> musicdriver = extmidi:cmd=pmidi
23:39:04  <Ammler> it works with timitdy?
23:39:25  <Ammler> timidity*
23:39:51  <TruePikachu> I didn't try; timidity freezes my computer too much
23:40:15  <TruePikachu> However, if I type 'pmidi <midifile>', that works from bash
23:41:09  <TruePikachu> However, in game, it doesn't look like it has a working sound config; I press play in the jukebox, and it scrolls past each song
23:42:21  <TruePikachu> I followed the instructions on the Wiki, and it didn't work
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