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joined #openttd 07:01:49 <Terkhen> good morning 07:20:13 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:22:36 <dihedral> morning 07:26:51 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:31:07 <dihedral> lol ... "i think we (read: the devs)" 07:51:17 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:06:04 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@99.129.144.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:14:06 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@adsl-99-129-144-31.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 08:15:28 *** Joni_ [~Joni-@80.220.0.41] has joined #openttd 08:22:12 *** Joni- [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-fe00dc00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:28:12 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19BBF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:36:17 *** TomyLobo [~foo@port-212-202-171-176.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 08:43:22 *** pavel1269 [~pavel1269@ip-94-113-53-196.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 09:06:31 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 09:20:56 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa489.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:28:34 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:40:57 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 09:41:14 *** Joni_ [~Joni-@80.220.0.41] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:42:23 *** Joni- [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-fe00dc00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:42:49 *** TomyLobo2 [~foo@port-212-202-171-176.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 09:49:18 *** TomyLobo [~foo@port-212-202-171-176.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:49:18 *** TomyLobo2 is now known as TomyLobo 10:00:48 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:01:41 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 10:13:46 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa489.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:20:00 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 10:25:20 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm63.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 10:28:55 <Rubidium> oh boy... my lunch break skim of the wiki changes makes me (somewhat) cry 10:30:12 <Rubidium> the configuring patches window of 0.2.x is being documented at the moment 10:31:10 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.15.143] has joined #openttd 10:31:50 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5D54.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:34:12 <Eddi|zuHause> imho, only stuff from the next (nightly), current (1.0) and previous (0.7) stable should be documented at any time... 10:34:44 <Eddi|zuHause> anything else will only become more confusing than helpful 10:35:37 <Rubidium> but... recent and current developments are very important... 10:36:04 <Rubidium> ... and (in 4 days) 3 years out of date 10:41:31 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:55:59 *** thvdburgt [~thvdburgt@z037133.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #openttd 11:02:09 <Ammler> well, he added the warning that the page is outdated, which isn't that bad... 11:02:22 *** waldtroll [~goblin@krlh-5f7204a1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:10:13 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:15:17 *** Chris_Booth_ [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:19:44 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host142-59-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 11:20:08 <Wolf01> hello 11:20:29 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:20:30 *** Chris_Booth_ is now known as Chris_Booth 11:21:22 <__ln__> hello ambadassor of the berlusconiland 11:22:17 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db1927d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:22:45 <Ammler> he added also warnings on current pages to look on old pages and reverted my try to remove it :-) 11:23:29 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa489.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:35:37 <dihedral> Rubidium, can you not require people to be logged it to make changes? 11:36:11 <dihedral> hehe - lets hope he does not document each revision :-D 11:36:16 <dihedral> or v0.0.1 11:37:25 <dihedral> or inject a http reply to his next request, telling him to stop :-D 11:37:41 *** thvdburgt [~thvdburgt@z037133.its-s.tudelft.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:49:46 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:1461:e4a8:de8c:d973] has joined #openttd 11:49:50 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 11:54:12 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice1n2.emea.ibm.com] has joined #openttd 11:54:17 <norbert79> Good day 11:55:45 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 11:56:32 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa489.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:58:21 <planetmaker> g'day 11:58:57 <norbert79> hello planetmaker 12:07:06 <Rubidium> well, then send him a wiki "pm" or something 12:12:30 <SmatZ> hello planetmaker 12:13:46 <Chris_Booth> hello all 12:14:52 <planetmaker> hey norbert79 & SmatZ :-) 12:14:53 <planetmaker> & Chris_Booth 12:15:09 <norbert79> Hi SmatZ, Rubidium 12:15:11 <Chris_Booth> hi planetmaker 12:15:16 <SmatZ> hello norbert79 12:15:28 <planetmaker> highlight party ;-) 12:15:43 <Chris_Booth> Smatz, Rubidium and norbert79 hi 12:15:45 <Rubidium> anyone... @nicks? 12:15:57 <Chris_Booth> @nicks 12:15:57 <DorpsGek> Chris_Booth: ^Spike^, __ln__, Aali, ack, Adambean, Ammler, Andel, APTX, ar3kaw, ashb, asnoehu, azaghal, bartavelle, Belugas, Biolunar, blathijs, Born_Acorn, ccfreak2k, Chris_Booth, CIA-2, ctibor, Cybertinus, dfox, dihedral, DorpsGek, dotwaffle, Eddi|zuHause, elho, elmz, eQualizer, erani_, FloSoft, Fuco, George, glevans2, glx, guru3, heffer, HerzogDeXtEr, Hirundo, Joni-, jonty-comp, jpm, jpx_, JVassie_, KenjiE20, KingJ, (2 more messages) 12:16:00 <planetmaker> :-D 12:16:01 <SmatZ> hello Chris_Booth 12:16:02 <Adambean> wat 12:16:03 <SmatZ> :) 12:16:06 <planetmaker> wooot? 12:16:13 <glx> someone wants a ban ??? 12:16:16 <blathijs> Why do we even have that command... 12:16:23 <eQualizer> ? 12:16:24 <Chris_Booth> I am in the nick list? how random 12:16:26 <planetmaker> and why can non-admins access it? 12:16:29 <Adambean> @nicks 12:16:29 <DorpsGek> Adambean: ^Spike^, __ln__, Aali, ack, Adambean, Ammler, Andel, APTX, ar3kaw, ashb, asnoehu, azaghal, bartavelle, Belugas, Biolunar, blathijs, Born_Acorn, ccfreak2k, Chris_Booth, CIA-2, ctibor, Cybertinus, dfox, dihedral, DorpsGek, dotwaffle, Eddi|zuHause, elho, elmz, eQualizer, erani_, FloSoft, Fuco, George, glevans2, glx, guru3, heffer, HerzogDeXtEr, Hirundo, Joni-, jonty-comp, jpm, jpx_, JVassie_, KenjiE20, KingJ, (2 more messages) 12:16:31 <Adambean> haha 12:16:32 <Rubidium> ask TrueBrain :) 12:16:36 <APTX> wtf 12:16:40 <norbert79> What is this command for? 12:16:49 <planetmaker> norbert79: annoying everyone in the channel 12:16:53 <dihedral> erm , can that thing not be disallowed? 12:16:57 <norbert79> planetmaker: Other, than that :) 12:17:00 <glx> @help nicks 12:17:00 <DorpsGek> glx: (nicks [<channel>]) -- Returns the nicks in <channel>. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent in the channel itself. 12:17:16 <norbert79> Ah, now that is indeed annoying 12:17:20 <APTX> DorpsGek: ignored 12:17:44 <Chris_Booth> does do every one only ^Spike^ - KingJ 12:17:47 <Fuco> extremly useful command I might add 12:17:58 <Chris_Booth> and annoying 12:18:02 <dihedral> Chris_Booth, you are not familiar with the more command are you? :-P 12:18:03 <norbert79> Fuco: For spamming? Sure... But thats the only good side of it 12:18:36 <Ammler> I really should rename to zzzz 12:18:40 <Chris_Booth> yes @more dihedral should be call annoy more 12:18:45 <dihedral> Ammler, i thought the same thing 12:18:47 <planetmaker> Ammler: un-zzzz rather ;-) 12:18:58 <TrueBrain> at least it wakes up a few dead skeletons in this channel .. I don't see the issue 12:19:06 <dihedral> Chris_Booth, you are the one who started it! 12:19:06 <TrueBrain> I see people talk here now I haven't seen talk in ages 12:19:08 <planetmaker> look at all those nicks which just woke up ;-) 12:19:26 <planetmaker> hehe @ TrueBrain 12:19:45 <dihedral> set a negative capability :-P 12:19:49 <SmatZ> breaking their records in "last seen", while still being in the channel 12:19:59 <SmatZ> @seen bartavelle 12:19:59 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: bartavelle was last seen in #openttd 34 weeks, 0 days, 0 hours, 17 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <bartavelle> yes 12:20:05 <SmatZ> wrong guess 12:20:13 <planetmaker> @seen Bjarni 12:20:13 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 31 weeks, 1 day, 12 hours, 55 minutes, and 16 seconds ago: <Bjarni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wVADKznOhY <-- wtf. Some rich guy built a trebuchet and uses burning pianos as ammo 12:20:19 <SmatZ> :) 12:20:20 <planetmaker> bad guess, too ;-) 12:20:29 <Rubidium> @seen ludde 12:20:29 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: I have not seen ludde. 12:20:34 <SmatZ> :( 12:20:37 <Rubidium> you stupid woman! 12:20:55 <SmatZ> DorpsGek is a woman? 12:21:15 <Chris_Booth> 34 weeks is a good idle stat 12:21:25 <planetmaker> @seen snorre 12:21:25 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: snorre was last seen in #openttd 8 weeks, 3 days, 18 hours, 55 minutes, and 40 seconds ago: <snorre> I'm running a server.. I'll just switsh to toyland for a while :P 12:21:40 <planetmaker> @seen Progman 12:21:40 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Progman was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 3 days, 20 hours, 20 minutes, and 54 seconds ago: <Progman> LunarWolf: you can try this: http://www.openttd.org/en/download-trunk 12:21:44 <planetmaker> hm :-) 12:21:48 <planetmaker> I should stop NOW 12:21:52 <Rubidium> SmatZ: ofcourse she is 12:21:52 <SmatZ> yup :) 12:21:53 <Chris_Booth> maybe a funny idea would be to kick people have 52 weeks 12:22:08 <SmatZ> hello DorpsGek, how are you? :) 12:22:19 <DorpsGek> I'm fine 12:22:21 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:22:24 <SmatZ> ohhh <3 12:22:35 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: you scare me ... having a conversation with your own can't be a good thing ... 12:22:45 <planetmaker> :-P 12:22:52 <Chris_Booth> Webster talks back aswell 12:22:55 <glx> TrueBrain: was me ;) 12:23:12 <TrueBrain> fair enough :p 12:23:26 <Wolf01> transitive property -> glx is a woman? :O 12:23:53 *** Wolf01 was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [no] 12:23:53 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host142-59-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 12:24:03 <Wolf01> then smatz is gay :P 12:24:26 <Noldo> transitivity describes relations, not properies 12:24:33 <SmatZ> :) 12:25:31 <Chris_Booth> I may start a new IRC client to build up silence stats 12:25:36 *** avdg [~avdg@94-227-100-192.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:26:16 <Rubidium> Wolf01: yeah, I guess SmatZ is happily excited about that statement 12:26:42 <SmatZ> nah, DorpsGek just ignored my kick command 12:26:59 <SmatZ> and op command too 12:27:05 <SmatZ> @op 12:27:10 *** mode/#openttd [+o SmatZ] by Rubidium 12:27:10 <TrueBrain> @whois SmatZ 12:27:15 <TrueBrain> @whoami 12:27:15 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: TrueBrain 12:27:16 <SmatZ> thanks Rubidium :) 12:27:23 <TrueBrain> DorpsGek: you are weird 12:27:28 <SmatZ> :( 12:27:41 <Wolf01> I put a smile at the end, so it was only for fun 12:27:56 <glx> there's no whois command 12:28:15 * Rubidium guesses Wolf01 didn't take a look at the dictionary yet 12:28:29 <SmatZ> @whoami 12:28:29 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: I don't recognize you. 12:28:32 <Wolf01> ok, the other meaning 12:28:36 <dihedral> @whoami 12:28:36 <DorpsGek> dihedral: dih 12:28:37 <dihedral> :-P 12:28:42 <norbert79> @whoareyou 12:28:53 <norbert79> dang, dind't work :) 12:29:13 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: looks like your daughter hit puberty 12:29:18 <SmatZ> :) 12:29:19 <glx> SmatZ: /msg DorpsGek identify maybe 12:29:37 <Chris_Booth> glx whoi is maybe? 12:29:55 <Chris_Booth> :P 12:30:22 <Rubidium> @calc 2.11/8*3600*24*365/1024 12:30:22 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 8122.67578125 12:30:29 <SmatZ> glx: thanks, I don't remember I even needed to do that 12:30:33 <norbert79> @help 12:30:33 <DorpsGek> norbert79: help [<plugin>] [<command>] 12:30:40 <norbert79> @listcmds 12:30:50 <norbert79> never mind, just testing 12:30:51 <glx> SmatZ: maybe it failed to recognise your host 12:30:59 <Rubidium> hmm, we only used 8 TiB of the 24 TiB we've got available :) 12:31:57 *** SmatZ [~SmatZ@vs185047.vserver.de] has left #openttd [Konversation terminated!] 12:31:59 *** SmatZ [~SmatZ@vs185047.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 12:35:33 <Rubidium> although we shouldn't forget the 1.25 TiB a month offloaded to the mirrors 12:35:40 <Rubidium> @calc 1.25*12 12:35:40 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 15 12:37:38 <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably "cheating", but: 12:37:39 <Rubidium> (although that figure is of the last two months which were much quieter than April) 12:37:42 <Eddi|zuHause> @seen spbot 12:37:42 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: I have not seen spbot. 12:38:09 <norbert79> Terrabytes.. God I remember back of the BBS times where 200 Megabytes of Data or even 1 GiB of data was huge 12:38:30 <norbert79> best connection: Modem 56 kbit :) 12:39:11 <Rubidium> still, 2 TiB a month is quite an achievement for such a relatively small game 12:39:16 <norbert79> Indeed 12:39:24 <Eddi|zuHause> at that time, i had an 80MB hard drive!! 12:40:03 <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: So you could install Strike COmmander with ease... I think users with 20 or 40 MB of big drive had some issues :) 12:40:17 <Rubidium> and "only" 500-600 MiB of that is causes by the content downloads 12:40:22 <Eddi|zuHause> norbert79: i don't remember that game 12:40:54 <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: It was released in 1993, it run very well on a 386 it had textured graphics... It was a flight simulator like Arcade game with a story behind 12:41:07 <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: I still have it in original on CD-ROM 12:41:26 <norbert79> Still fun to play 12:42:09 <Eddi|zuHause> @seen Born_Acorn 12:42:09 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: I have not seen Born_Acorn. 12:42:15 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... 12:42:18 <Eddi|zuHause> weird... 12:42:22 <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qsjTOF62Zs | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strike_Commander 12:42:50 <Eddi|zuHause> [Mittwoch, 16. September 2009] [02:34:07] <DorpsGek> Born_Acorn was last seen in #openttd 10 weeks, 0 days, 9 hours, 48 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <Born_Acorn> Bbl 12:43:04 <Eddi|zuHause> that was about one year ago :p 12:43:21 <Rubidium> irc log rotation? 12:43:33 <norbert79> @seen norbert79 12:43:33 <DorpsGek> norbert79: norbert79 was last seen in #openttd 1 minute and 11 seconds ago: <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qsjTOF62Zs | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strike_Commander 12:45:29 <Eddi|zuHause> norbert79: i never really was into flight simulators... 12:45:43 <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: Oh, I see 12:47:47 <dihedral> norbert79, i think i remember that game :-) 12:48:01 <dihedral> i do remember it :-) 12:48:29 <norbert79> dihedral: It supposed to happen within a year if we look at the games timeline :D 12:50:15 <dihedral> i would argue about it still being fun though :-P 12:50:30 <norbert79> Just try it again, you will find it even today challenging 12:50:32 <dihedral> have a look at flightgear 12:51:02 <norbert79> Comparing FLightgear with Strike Commander is like comparing an apple to raisins 12:51:11 <dihedral> i find it quite sad today, as its physics engine aint quite what i would expect or want 12:51:26 <norbert79> Yet you can replace it 12:51:37 <norbert79> And FG is not an arcade story based game :) 12:51:56 <dihedral> comparing duke nukem 3d with HL is silly too, yet it demonstrates that one has a more up to date engine 12:52:05 <Belugas> hello 12:52:09 <dihedral> hello Belugas 12:52:27 <Belugas> haaa.. for once, a VALID highlight :) 12:52:31 <norbert79> dihedral: Aw, come on, two different games, two different style, besides there is EDuke32 and HDR packs too :P :) 12:52:36 <Belugas> hi dihedral :) 12:52:46 <dihedral> :-) 12:53:02 <norbert79> dihedral: I loved Half Life for the story and Duke Nukem for it's mood 12:53:21 <dihedral> norbert79, it's not the style i am getting at - i just would not consider the one to be fun to play today, but i prefer keeping it in memory, as it was fun to play back then 12:53:42 <dihedral> the source engine is amazing with regards to it's physics 12:53:49 <dihedral> fg has some awesome physics too 12:53:51 <norbert79> dihedral: Well, it might be only me, but I still happily turn on my old 486 and play those old games 12:54:07 <dihedral> and i can read your answers without you needing to highlight me all the time 12:54:53 <norbert79> Or take Tyrian2000... Now available for free and still rocks... I have played it through almost 10 times by now 12:55:11 <dihedral> never heard of that 12:55:16 <Wolf01> I've the original CD of Tyrian 12:55:18 *** fanioz [~fanioz@180.214.233.4] has joined #openttd 12:55:20 <norbert79> and you know what? OpenTTD has no 3D neither we still love playing it :) 12:55:42 <norbert79> Wolf01: Hah, nice! 12:56:31 <dihedral> norbert79, i do not play openttd :-P 12:56:51 <Belugas> hu??? no 3D YET??? Fuck... that must be such an unrealistic and boring game 12:57:01 <dihedral> :-P 12:57:16 <norbert79> Belugas: Yeah, just imagine... No Z coordinates, no nothing, just plain sprites... How dull 12:57:26 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c441.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:57:28 <Eddi|zuHause> norbert79: openttd is from the "isometric age" of 3D-gaming 12:57:51 <norbert79> But on the other hand Little Big Adventure was partially sprited and 3D in one and was also isometric 12:58:01 <norbert79> yet LBA2 turned into almost full 3D 12:58:17 <norbert79> and both are also available by now for free 12:58:37 <dihedral> i consider the fun of openttd to be programming for and around it 12:58:39 <Eddi|zuHause> that was like a wave going through the game industry... sim city 2000, civilization 2, openttd ... even Age of Empires 12:58:48 <peter1138> -r-------- 1 root root 140737486262272 Oct 1 13:57 kcore 12:58:50 <peter1138> hrrrmmmm 12:58:57 <Eddi|zuHause> er... 12:59:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean original tt 12:59:18 <norbert79> peter1138: Brwosing through /proc? :) 12:59:30 <peter1138> just added more ram 12:59:33 <Eddi|zuHause> 140TB? 12:59:33 <peter1138> but not that much more ram :P 13:00:12 <norbert79> Some kinda of older flotaing type kinda bug, it shows the negative number... How much ram do you have btw? (I guess it was a Gnome-Session-manager) bug 13:00:27 <Eddi|zuHause> 0x7FFFFFE01000 13:00:30 <ccfreak2k> Isometric allowed you to have "3D" without all the computing required for it. 13:00:30 <Eddi|zuHause> weird number... 13:00:32 <norbert79> A similar game caused me also some headaches sometimes in DOS times 13:00:41 <ccfreak2k> Eddi|zuHause, looks masked. 13:00:45 <norbert79> if you had more, than 32 mb of ram 13:00:48 <Belugas> by the way, i still love openttd... 13:00:54 <peter1138> i guess it's a big memory hole 13:00:57 <Belugas> not as much as i love 13:00:58 <norbert79> Belugas: Who doesn't? 13:00:59 <peter1138> it's approximately 2^47 + 2GB 13:01:15 <Belugas> the music i listen to, right now :) 13:01:24 <peter1138> TSN? 13:01:30 <Belugas> :D 13:01:41 <Belugas> but... still the 5 usual 13:01:51 <Belugas> did not had time for the 19 :( 13:02:08 <Belugas> the 1st and the 5th... my overall best 13:04:44 <dihedral> peter1138, -r-------- 1 root root 128T 2010-10-01 15:00 kcore 13:05:51 <Belugas> right... we're already in october 13:06:05 <Belugas> damned... that's all i can read from these lines 13:07:00 <Eddi|zuHause> -r-------- 1 root root 939528192 1. Okt 15:07 /proc/kcore 13:07:35 <Eddi|zuHause> what does this number even mean? 13:08:12 <SmatZ> size of your RAM? 13:08:27 <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: http://www.unixguide.net/linux/faq/04.16.shtml 13:08:42 <SmatZ> hmm rather size of user-space VM 13:09:28 <SmatZ> -r-------- 1 root root 140737486262272 1. ÅÃj 15.08 /proc/kcore 13:09:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Mem: 1034880 <-- that's what 'free' tells me 13:09:34 <Eddi|zuHause> which is slightly more 13:09:37 <SmatZ> I am sure I don't have 128TiB of RAM 13:09:53 <peter1138> SmatZ, it used to, however 13:10:01 <peter1138> my server says 896MB, it has 4GB ram 13:10:07 <dihedral> <SmatZ> size of your RAM? <- that would be nice 13:10:08 <peter1138> processes can be larger than 896MB 13:10:31 <Belugas> guess we are not talking abuot a home PC then :) 13:10:58 <dihedral> i am 13:11:01 <peter1138> yup 13:11:04 <Rubidium> mine says 128T as well... 13:11:07 <peter1138> my server has 4GB, my home pc has 6GB 13:11:14 <dihedral> lol 13:11:42 <Eddi|zuHause> 32bit vs 64bit os? 13:11:51 <Rubidium> too bad /dev/zero is only 5 bytes big. Would be fun to see something like â in ls 13:12:06 <Belugas> :( that's even more than the total ram i have at home 13:12:06 * Rubidium has a 64 bits OS 13:12:26 <SmatZ> :) 13:12:28 <ccfreak2k> Everyone forgets about PAE. 13:12:36 <Rubidium> in any case 4 GiB isn't enough 13:12:46 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8138.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 13:12:47 <norbert79> Rubidium: No file in /dev nor in /proc are real files 13:13:00 <Rubidium> kdevelop seriously needed more memory than the 4 GiB of memory I had 13:13:02 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, possible, the server is 32 bit 13:13:10 <Eddi|zuHause> norbert79: that wasn't the question 13:32:12 *** `Fuco` [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 13:35:09 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:37:07 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-67-91.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 13:39:08 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:42:59 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa489.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:44:49 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e06d02d.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 13:45:35 *** davis [~b@p5B28A561.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:45:39 *** Devroush|2 [~dennis@vpnr002.ugent.be] has joined #openttd 13:48:31 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has joined #openttd 13:49:16 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-67-91.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:59:33 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice1n2.emea.ibm.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:01:24 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-67-91.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:01:25 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:47 *** underdoggg [~underdogg@gprs-prointernet-ff78d700-109.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 14:02:04 <underdoggg> hi, decided to come straight here and ask about os x build 14:02:26 <underdoggg> is there any way I can play 1.0.4 with this newest mac? 14:02:46 <underdoggg> I have 1.0.3 running smootly, already 14:03:08 <davis> where did you get that 1.0.3 build that runs on mac? 14:03:31 <underdoggg> I found this thread in the forums 14:03:42 <underdoggg> there was this link which I clicked 14:04:07 <underdoggg> mac os x build 1.0.3, sometin like that 14:04:19 <davis> I suppose you have to wait for some 1.0.4 build then 14:04:22 <Wolf01> then is better you ask there 14:04:23 <Belugas> if you can compile, you can have version 1.0.4 14:04:31 <davis> or that way 14:04:31 <davis> haha 14:04:33 <underdoggg> what does compile mean? :) 14:04:41 *** underdoggg [~underdogg@gprs-prointernet-ff78d700-109.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 14:04:44 <Belugas> otherwise, you shold wait until someone build it fo ryou 14:04:49 <Belugas> compile,,, 14:04:51 <Belugas> ok, 14:05:03 <Belugas> you answered the question 14:05:05 *** underdoggg [~underdogg@gprs-prointernet-ff78d700-109.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 14:05:14 <avdg> donno if the binaries are portable through 14:05:26 <underdoggg> maybe I have to wait 14:05:37 <Belugas> underdoggg, that's your only solution, then 14:05:43 <underdoggg> but I have 2 flat mates and they have pc's 14:05:51 <avdg> I've done some distribution and seems my binaries doesn't work on other macs 14:05:52 <underdoggg> I made them dl 1.0.3 though :D 14:05:56 *** Devroush|2 [~dennis@vpnr002.ugent.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:06:16 <avdg> and the patch to fix the static links is still not applied for some reasons 14:06:21 <underdoggg> but I was just wondering if there is easy solution 14:06:32 <davis> install windows. 14:06:44 <davis> that's probably as easy as it gets 14:06:45 <Wolf01> lol, I was writing the same 14:06:50 <underdoggg> but, I dont have windows 14:06:58 <avdg> linux then 14:07:11 <underdoggg> can I run linux with mac? 14:07:16 <underdoggg> can I also ask how? :D 14:07:27 <avdg> just install :p 14:07:31 <planetmaker> by installing it 14:07:39 <underdoggg> do I need some other programs? 14:07:50 <Belugas> ans searching on google or whatever your favorite search engine 14:07:53 <planetmaker> you don't even need a computer. ;-) 14:08:04 <davis> haha 14:08:15 <davis> my tv firmware runs on some kind of linux. 14:08:15 <underdoggg> heh, bare me 14:08:30 <underdoggg> asking stupid things, but just trying to safe some surfing 14:08:31 <KenjiE20> I have a spare dead badger around, you can use that for linux is you like :p 14:08:42 <davis> :D 14:09:05 <davis> underdoggg , no harm. but smartest choice is probably to wait 14:09:06 <underdoggg> I just dl linux... well I'm pretty sure there will be problems ahead if I do that 14:09:23 <davis> Ubuntu is pretty simple 14:09:39 <fonsinchen> What exactly are you downloading? 14:09:39 * KenjiE20 shudders 14:10:04 <davis> you can make look ubuntu 100% like windows xp by now 14:10:05 <davis> scary. 14:10:20 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 14:10:32 <davis> why would anyone anything looking like windows xp. 14:10:49 <Belugas> well... making the transition easier? 14:11:03 <Belugas> change can be frighting 14:11:19 <davis> Ubuntu is already pretty .. windows like 14:11:24 <davis> at least considering the desktop 14:11:39 <Rubidium> davis: that's definitely a lie 14:11:46 <fonsinchen> I remember working with XP for the first time sometime around 2003, after having worked with 98 and various X window managers ... 14:12:08 <dihedral> davis, excuse me... WHAT? 14:12:09 <fonsinchen> The first thing I thought was: How could they make something THAT awful??! 14:12:20 <davis> http://latmaster.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/ubuntu.jpg 14:12:51 <KenjiE20> that looks more Mac than XP? 14:12:54 <Rubidium> that looks in no way like Windows XP 14:12:55 <dihedral> and that is very windows style? 14:13:07 <davis> imho it is close enough to windows 14:13:08 <davis> to not get lost 14:13:09 <dihedral> c'mon davis you can do better than that 14:13:10 <davis> if changing. 14:13:30 <davis> what i'm trying to say , it's not all different haha 14:13:33 <davis> now quit bashing me <3 14:13:45 <dihedral> then quit saying stupid stuff :-P 14:13:51 <davis> shht 14:13:52 <underdoggg> I'l look ubuntu 14:13:57 <underdoggg> ive heard that word before 14:14:07 <underdoggg> thanks 14:14:17 <davis> :D 14:14:26 *** underdoggg [~underdogg@gprs-prointernet-ff78d700-109.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 14:14:33 <dihedral> davis, and please realize that you are merely referring to gnome 14:14:51 <dihedral> and that for sure aint anywhere near windows XP - though of course if you mangle with it, you can make it look similar 14:14:58 <dihedral> but then you can do the same with KDE too 14:15:04 <davis> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4StlvX-kOg&feature=player_embedded 14:15:10 <dihedral> if you mangle a bit more, you can make it look OS X'ish 14:15:18 <davis> indeed gnome it is. 14:15:44 <dihedral> and now show me how you can customize windows xp to look any way you like 14:16:08 <KenjiE20> the second recommended link on that vid is good 14:16:17 <KenjiE20> the ubunutu like win7 thing 14:16:21 <KenjiE20> that's really close 14:16:42 <KenjiE20> (I just skipped to about 7mins in) 14:16:44 <dihedral> but that is because windows is changing behaviour and not gnome :-D 14:17:43 <Rubidium> the video looks infinitely times more like windows that the screenshot you linked 14:17:58 <KenjiE20> ubunutu is good for one thing; boob mashing logo excuses :p 14:17:59 <Rubidium> although there's still pretty much that tells "this is not Windows" 14:19:05 *** waldtroll [~goblin@krlh-5f7204a1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:19:07 <dihedral> davis, you use windows at home? 14:20:04 <davis> got both , windows and well /gnome/ 14:20:11 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c441.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:20:12 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c441.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:20:17 <davis> dual boot setup 14:20:41 <davis> mostly windows 7 ultimate though , it simply supports more games. 14:22:11 <davis> my mp3 player runs on rockbox :D 14:22:47 <ccfreak2k> Surely you mean the other way around. 14:22:51 * KenjiE20 thinks we're getting badly off topic here 14:23:10 * davis thinks KenjiE20 is sexy. 14:23:27 <KenjiE20> I'm now worried and ignoring IRC 14:23:32 <davis> hahaha 14:24:16 <davis> irc is amazing , like multiplayer notepad. a bunch of fun 14:25:03 <planetmaker> [16:21] <davis> mostly windows 7 ultimate though , it simply supports more games. <-- you play other games? Heretic! 14:25:17 <davis> :o 14:25:28 <davis> just because my PC isn't heavily outdated ;) 14:26:10 <planetmaker> :-) 14:26:11 <dihedral> ^^ 14:26:37 <dihedral> thankfully he's none of those guys requesting multi core/cpu support 14:26:38 <planetmaker> try to play a decent openttd game with an out-dated PC... 14:26:48 <dihedral> define 'decent' :-D 14:26:59 <planetmaker> 1k+ vehicles ;-) 14:27:01 <dihedral> 64*64? :-P 14:27:04 <davis> ;) 14:27:20 <ccfreak2k> Maybe he means, for example, not buying up the land next to every industry. 14:28:32 <davis> then again the definition of outdated is somewhat vague aswell. 14:28:42 <planetmaker> much so 14:28:54 <Rubidium> Eddi's new PC isn't outdated yet 14:29:06 <davis> haha , probably newer than mine then 14:29:08 <Rubidium> (has it actually been delivered yet?) 14:29:11 <davis> :D 14:29:21 <Rubidium> mine are already ancient 14:29:22 <planetmaker> hehe 14:29:33 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 14:29:37 * planetmaker probably will only buy laptops in the near future 14:29:38 <davis> currently running on 2.83ghz quadcore , 2 graphic cards and 8gb ram 14:29:41 <planetmaker> at least privately 14:30:26 <davis> I loved my laptop , till the usb controll broke. then it was near useless 14:32:36 <planetmaker> hm... I don't need that very often either :-) 14:32:38 <planetmaker> only wifi is important ;-) 14:34:29 <dihedral> davis: define quad core :-P 14:34:46 <dihedral> i.e. some precision? :-D 14:38:03 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 14:40:28 *** lolman_ is now known as lolman 14:44:19 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:47:30 <davis> sec dihedral 14:48:18 <davis> Intel Cre 2 Quad CPU Q @ 2.83GHz (4 CPus), ~ 2,8Ghz 14:48:22 <davis> Core* 14:48:50 <davis> possible to overclock it to ~ 3.2 , but that's not in need yet. 14:49:14 <peter1138> i bumped my 2.4 to 3, heh 14:49:38 <davis> nice 14:50:01 <davis> not sure about the limits of my cpu 14:50:09 <davis> but it runs fine as it is , no need to play around yet 14:53:53 <__ln__> peter1138: were you able to do that without losing the speedstep-or-something functionality? 15:03:12 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:09:26 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa489.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:09:58 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-78-102-180-216.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 15:10:09 *** waldtroll [~goblin@krlh-5f7204a1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:15:21 <peter1138> __ln__, yes 15:15:30 <peter1138> __ln__, it only ever allowed 1.6 or 2.4 GHz before 15:15:38 <peter1138> __ln__, now it only allows 2.0 or 3.0 GHz 15:15:48 <peter1138> __ln__, no where near as flexible as AMDs version 15:17:34 *** thvdburgt [~thvdburgt@banning.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 15:18:17 <dihedral> i'd still not go for an amd just for that :-P 15:18:27 <dihedral> unless i wanted some embeded thing like a geode 15:18:50 <dihedral> s/a geode/the geode/ 15:20:48 <peter1138> atom... 15:20:56 <peter1138> damn it 15:21:13 <peter1138> the type of namespace name 'membership' does not exist in the namespace 'system.web.security' 15:21:16 <peter1138> LIES 15:22:19 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@ip-78-102-180-216.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 15:24:33 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:27:57 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8138.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:44:32 <Eddi|zuHause> so... new computer... 15:44:53 <__ln__> peter1138: when i tried overclocking, i lost speedstep possibility.. but could have been a limitation of the bios or specific bios version 15:45:08 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: congrats. specs? 15:46:59 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-hkibrasgw1-ffe4c000-43.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 15:47:51 <Eddi|zuHause> 6x2.8GHz 15:47:55 <Eddi|zuHause> 4GB 15:47:57 <Eddi|zuHause> 2TB 15:48:20 <Eddi|zuHause> some assembly requred 15:48:46 <waldtroll> Eddi|zuHause: OS? 15:49:00 <Eddi|zuHause> none yet 15:49:37 <waldtroll> what one would you prefer? 32bit or 64bit? 15:59:12 <peter1138> Is there any point to staying with 32bit? 16:02:38 <peter1138> Hmm, I wonder if my new drive and controller are... hotplug... 16:03:29 <waldtroll> peter1138: i believe not, but many ppl i know don't want to switch for .... stupid reasons 16:05:28 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 16:06:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i only have a 32bit windows, if i can find the disk... 16:07:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and i downloaded 64bit opensuse 16:07:00 <peter1138> XP/ 16:07:02 <peter1138> ? 16:07:08 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, XP 16:07:13 <peter1138> Urgh 16:07:13 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:07:25 <peter1138> Well, it's only 8 or 9 years old :D 16:07:40 <Eddi|zuHause> well... i don't really care 16:08:07 <Eddi|zuHause> and definitely not enough to actually pay for a newer one 16:14:35 <waldtroll> but you know that 32bit windows only can address 3,3 Gig of RAM? it reserves the last 700MB for virtual I/O mapped memory 16:16:50 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:21:12 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:52 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 16:26:57 <peter1138> waldtroll, so? :) 16:27:31 *** pavel1269 [~pavel1269@ip-94-113-53-196.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: ^^] 16:28:49 <waldtroll> yarp, at least Tanenbaum - Modern Operating Systems says so 16:32:11 <Rubidium> actually the memory limitation is more an arbitrary limitation put into the OS by Microsoft 16:39:25 <waldtroll> Rubidium: nope, a 32bit processor cannot address more than 4GB 16:39:52 <Rubidium> waldtroll: then explain to me why Windows 2000 server data center x86 can address 32 GiB 16:40:04 <waldtroll> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/32bit 16:40:20 <Rubidium> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778%28VS.85%29.aspx 16:41:07 <Rubidium> waldtroll: did you read the page you linked? 16:41:11 <waldtroll> could be virtual memory 16:41:13 <waldtroll> shure 16:41:33 <peter1138> Never heard of PAE? 16:41:38 *** trebuchet [~Trebuchet@69.51.104.87] has joined #openttd 16:41:50 <Rubidium> The external address and data buses are often wider than 32 bits but both of these are stored and manipulated internally in the processor as 32-bit quantities. For example, the Pentium Pro processor is a 32-bit machine, but the external address bus is 36 bits wide, and the external data bus is 64 bits wide. 16:42:26 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r20860 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 4 dirs): -Cleanup: remove some unused functions and variables 16:42:32 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 16:42:35 <Rubidium> a processor with 32-bit memory addresses can directly access 4 GB of byte-addressable memory <- that's probably what you're thinking about, but... the direct in there is the important bit 16:43:06 <peter1138> I wonder if Firefox will be usable now that I have 6GB... 16:43:18 * Lakie thinks Oskar would be quite upset at this code. 16:43:42 <Lakie> It imetates the resizability of OpenTTD's object gui 16:43:48 <waldtroll> but thats not standard hardware 16:44:11 <waldtroll> oh, okay, u're right 16:44:12 <waldtroll> sry 16:44:14 <peter1138> PAE is pretty standard on x86... 16:44:15 <Rubidium> waldtroll: true-ish, any CPU supporting PAE 16:44:38 <Rubidium> that does not include all CPUs, like those damn old 486s 16:44:41 *** Silasle [~silas_len@h88-206-139-246.vokby.se] has joined #openttd 16:44:56 <Aali> the 3GB limit still holds for any single one application though, unless its programmed to handle more 16:45:15 <SmatZ> even old IA16 CPUs could address more than 64KiB of memory 16:45:56 <waldtroll> i see, im a bit out of date :-D 16:46:05 <Rubidium> true, though I seem to remember that those memory hogging web browsers are starting a process per tab. I'd reckon 3GiB of memory would be enough to handle a tab for the forseeable future 16:46:29 <waldtroll> but that doesn't change the fact that a normal Win XP 32Bit can' address more than 3,3Gig 16:47:08 <Rubidium> true, but as I said that's an arbitrary limitation put in by Microsoft 16:47:21 <waldtroll> i see, you were right 16:47:42 <SmatZ> [18:46:52] <waldtroll> but that doesn't change the fact that a normal Win XP 32Bit can' address more than 3,3Gig <== talking about userspace programs 16:47:48 <waldtroll> i found a table in wikipedia :-D i can't believe win 7 starter can only adress 2 Gig, thats crazy 16:48:18 <Rubidium> XP starter only 512 MiB, but then... with 2 or 3 applications running at a time there's not much to worry about 16:48:26 <waldtroll> nop, my pld win XP professional can only handle 3,3 Gig overall 16:48:34 <glx> win7 starter is very limited 16:48:39 <waldtroll> s/pld/old 16:48:45 <SmatZ> ^^^ ignore me :) 16:49:32 <Rubidium> for fun... my Windows XP has a 128 GiB limit 16:49:44 <glx> 64bit ? 16:49:48 <Rubidium> although... I'm running Windows (NT) 5.2 16:50:06 <Rubidium> you're arguably running Windows (NT) 5.1 16:50:13 <waldtroll> i do not run windows XP anymore, so i cant look for it 16:50:13 <glx> 5.2 is 64 ;) 16:50:21 *** davis [~b@p5B28A561.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:50:37 <waldtroll> and the wikipedia-table says win XP 64bit can haandle 128 Gig 16:51:06 <glx> anyway limits are always software limits 16:51:10 *** davis [~b@p5B28A561.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:51:12 <waldtroll> SmatZ: my windows only showed 3,3Gig RAM in the systems interface ... 16:51:34 <SmatZ> yeah, ignore me :) 16:51:44 <waldtroll> but as i said, i can't test it because i don't run it anymore 16:52:03 <davis> waldtroll 32bit version of windows? 16:52:06 * Rubidium coughs virtualbox 16:52:07 <waldtroll> i didn't ignore you, my windows ignored the rest of the RAM :-p 16:52:14 <waldtroll> davis: jep 16:52:22 <davis> yeah 32 bit only supports up to 3,3 gig afaik 16:52:42 <waldtroll> davis: yeah, thats what i said, before i got wrong with the PAE 16:52:56 <davis> ah 16:54:49 <waldtroll> and i don't know, why SmatZ feels ignored, because my 32bit Windows XP Professional would only handle 3,3 Gig, not only in single userspace programms but overall 16:56:01 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:57:19 <SmatZ> waldtroll: what I said was probably wrong :) 16:57:49 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:57:52 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@ip-78-102-180-216.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:57:53 <michi_cc> It's actually 4GB minus whatever the mainboard reserves for PCI and onboard IO. 16:58:40 <michi_cc> So the maximum memory supported by XP depends on the mainboard/chipset. 16:59:15 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 16:59:17 <Rubidium> though aren't you able to work around that by enabling PAE? 16:59:18 <waldtroll> SmatZ: ah, i got you totally wrong, i thought you feel ignored, not that you want to be ignored ... sry 16:59:45 <SmatZ> sorry for mistaking you, waldtroll :) 17:00:40 <dihedral> s/mistaking/confusing/ 17:00:53 * SmatZ mistakes dihedral in his confusion 17:01:39 <michi_cc> PAE is only used by the server versions of windows. Reason I read somewhere in a MS presentation was that too many 32-bit drivers were crashing when presented with memory addresses larger than 32-bit. 17:02:07 <michi_cc> So they decided to not use PAE for consumer 32-bit windows. 17:02:36 <Rubidium> though MS claims you can use /PAE in the boot settings somehow 17:05:17 <waldtroll> a short question before i have to leave: is there a ressource (site or document) where to learn the NFO? 17:05:53 <theholyduck> Rubidium, sure, but it still limits it to 4gb 17:05:56 <theholyduck> on most versions of windows 17:05:59 <theholyduck> even WITH pae enabled 17:05:59 <davis> is there any patch that allows to build stations underneath bridges / bridges over stations? 17:07:47 <SmatZ> davis: it's not allowed because it caused glitches 17:08:03 <Rubidium> maybe in peter's magic storage of ancient patches 17:08:50 <SmatZ> waldtroll: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=NewGraphicsSpecs :) 17:09:36 <Alberth> waldtroll: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=4381 http://www.tt-forums.net/viewforum.php?f=26 seem to be resources 17:09:59 <waldtroll> SmatZ: thanks ... i think i have to practice on my google-fu skills, i didn't find that site 17:10:21 <SmatZ> you are welcome :) 17:10:51 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-245-135.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:10:59 <peter1138> heh, there is one for that, actually 17:12:03 <waldtroll> okay, thanks 17:12:36 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fc8f9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:12:42 <SmatZ> hello frosch123 17:12:43 <waldtroll> now i've got to go, i'll be back in a few days when my trials areN#t working ;-) 17:12:50 <SmatZ> bye waldtroll 17:12:53 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-201-36.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 17:12:56 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 17:12:59 *** waldtroll [~goblin@krlh-5f7204a1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 17:13:09 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.20.13] has joined #openttd 17:15:05 <frosch123> evening albert and smatz :) 17:15:12 <frosch123> hello to the rest :) 17:18:02 <Rubidium> 'lo 17:21:04 *** snorre_ [~snorre@c692BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 17:22:55 *** snorre [~snorre@c692BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:23:11 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa489.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:27:21 *** Pikel [xaero@juggernaut.ircwire.net] has joined #openttd 17:28:12 <Pikel> I don't understand how wood is collected ... is a station built into a forest? 17:30:29 <SmatZ> Pikel: next to a forest "industry" 17:30:58 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 17:31:12 <SmatZ> you have to build your station there :p 17:31:35 <SmatZ> sorry for the yoda-talk :p 17:31:42 <Pikel> what does a 'forest industry' look like then ... I don't see anything like that on the map.... 17:31:45 <Pikel> SmatZ: tis ok lol 17:32:25 <SmatZ> http://wiki.openttd.org/Forest 17:33:09 <SmatZ> you should see it in the minimap, too 17:33:15 <Pikel> ok 17:33:15 <SmatZ> (F4 open minimap) 17:33:53 <SmatZ> *opens 17:34:26 <SmatZ> hmm, I'm very sober and my English is incredibly bad 17:35:50 <Pikel> it's all good, I got the gist of it ... looking for a forest now 17:37:16 <SmatZ> :) 17:43:13 *** lolman_ [~lolman@188-220-38-226.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:44:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20861 /trunk/src/lang/arabic_egypt.txt: 17:44:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:44:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 44 changes by kasakg 17:45:40 *** lolman [~lolman@188-220-38-226.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:52:27 *** lewymati [~lewymati@static-78-8-146-157.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #openttd 17:58:04 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa489.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:39 *** lolman [~lolman@188-220-38-226.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:58:41 *** thvdburgt [~thvdburgt@banning.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:06:00 *** lolman_ [~lolman@188-220-38-226.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:14:40 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:17:14 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.224] has joined #openttd 18:22:11 *** Chrill [~Chrill@146.244.180.151] has joined #openttd 18:24:16 <__ln__> what, is there support for RTL nowadays? 18:24:35 <Yexo> yes, for quite a long time already 18:25:08 <__ln__> i see. 18:25:22 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@ip-78-102-180-216.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 18:27:24 *** Zephyris [~Zephyris@109.181.224.213] has joined #openttd 18:28:32 *** andythenorth_ [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:31:31 *** andythenorth_ [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 18:36:15 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-201-36.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: c('~' )o] 18:36:18 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 18:37:27 <Belugas> hey... it's normal, __ln__ only uses ottd in english... 18:37:29 * Belugas runs 18:38:53 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-201-36.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 18:38:56 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 18:39:22 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 18:40:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.190.166] has joined #openttd 18:41:10 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:45:08 <__ln__> ylno hsilgne 18:46:56 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.152.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:47:06 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@ip-78-102-180-216.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:49:09 <dihedral> english please 18:49:25 *** Chrill [~Chrill@146.244.180.151] has quit [] 18:54:35 *** GecK [Geck@pro75-3-82-229-184-63.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 18:54:39 <GecK> hi 18:55:27 <__ln__> dihedral: it was 18:55:47 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:56:00 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 18:57:53 <dihedral> english is not rtl 18:58:05 *** Zephyris [~Zephyris@109.181.224.213] has quit [Quit: Bye] 18:58:33 <Prof_Frink> Unless you're in Nodnol. 18:58:53 <Alberth> or in #openttd, apparently 18:59:41 *** Chillosophy [~fu@82-170-139-109.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 19:00:22 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-201-36.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:02:38 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-56-135.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 19:02:41 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 19:04:30 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@ip-78-102-180-216.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 19:05:10 *** Joni- [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-fe00dc00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 19:06:10 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa489.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:06:49 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:07:53 *** Joni- [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-fe00dc00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:17:06 *** andythenorth_ [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:17:49 *** neli [micha@244-233.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18:56 *** Joni- [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-fe00dc00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 19:25:24 *** Joni- [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-fe00dc00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:26:53 *** Silasle [~silas_len@h88-206-139-246.vokby.se] has left #openttd [] 19:30:27 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa489.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:37:44 *** andythenorth_ [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth_] 19:40:30 *** GT [~GT@rt-scb-9f41.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:41:43 *** Silasle [~silas_len@h88-206-139-246.vokby.se] has joined #openttd 19:46:21 <Eddi|zuHause> <glx> anyway limits are always software limits <-- 640kB ought to be enough for anybody... 19:47:06 <Alberth> not to mention a segment size of 64KB 19:48:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i thought that was a program limitation with near and far pointers 19:48:43 <Eddi|zuHause> that being, a program without far pointers can only address one block of 64kB 19:49:30 <Alberth> no idea, I never messed around with segments 19:49:49 <Eddi|zuHause> 64kB is what you can address with a 16 bit pointer 19:50:06 <Alberth> but I think dumping the problem onto the programmer with the near and far pointer stuff is still one of the better tricks 19:50:20 <Eddi|zuHause> far pointers were one attempt to increase that to 32 bit without a 32bit architecture 19:51:14 <Alberth> whatever, but if you declare char x[70000] I expect to get 70000 characters 19:51:22 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... copying small files is extremely slow... 19:52:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: that's the job of the compiler, i presume 19:52:29 <Alberth> I would hope so, but it didn't back in those days. 19:52:52 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-97-74.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:52:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: that's still a problem if you declare x[5000000000] on a 32-bit system nowadays 19:52:55 <Alberth> luckily, I had a RISC-OS machine with a nice linear flat 32bit address space :p 19:53:57 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: if the compiler says "too large", ok. But it accepted the declaration without problems! 19:54:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i really had no experience back then 19:59:29 *** Klanticus [~quassel@200-161-120-132.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #openttd 20:18:52 <frosch123> yay for mining uranium with a bucket-wheel excavator :p 20:20:05 *** waldtroll [~goblin@krlh-5f7204a1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:25:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember uranium being part of minecraft :p 20:30:16 <__ln__> i just figured out there's some other black stuff that looks like coal but is not, and isn't suitable for a torch 20:30:55 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:36:03 <peter1138> i don't remember any other black stuff 20:38:30 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:38:42 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-56-135.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:38:45 <__ln__> flint, says the internet 20:39:03 <peter1138> oh 20:39:11 <peter1138> yeah 20:39:16 <peter1138> flint & steel! :D 20:40:35 *** KouDy2 [~KouDy@ip-78-102-180-216.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 20:40:47 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-20-175.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 20:40:50 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 20:42:54 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm63.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [] 20:45:32 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@ip-78-102-180-216.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:52:01 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:08:15 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 21:16:02 *** Klanticus [~quassel@200-161-120-132.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:18:14 <Belugas> good weekend all 21:18:25 <Rubidium> happy weekend oh great white one 21:23:18 * Lakie thinks he's mimiced openttd's object window close enough. (well, the preview scaling / text expanding), though its a little odd. 21:23:19 *** avdg [~avdg@94-227-100-192.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:24:00 <Rubidium> Lakie: now make it adjust for different fontsizes as well :) 21:24:19 <Lakie> Heh, I think TTD haas hard coded font sizes. :) 21:24:24 *** avdg [~avdg@94-227-100-192.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 21:24:33 <Lakie> Just be changing the imul anyway 21:27:30 <Lakie> 'cept I keep to a minimum of 3 too keep the old size for smaller objects... 21:36:52 <Lakie> Have you managed to find any time for those bugs in OpenTTD, Rubidium? 21:38:08 <Rubidium> does the first of the next month sound okay? 21:39:08 <Lakie> That was today? 21:39:22 <Lakie> Or do you meant Nov? 21:39:30 <Rubidium> yeah 21:40:14 <Eddi|zuHause> ok... copying small files is _extremely_ slow 21:40:20 <Lakie> Yup 21:40:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i should have just made an image... 21:40:28 <Lakie> Because its usually no sequental 21:40:34 <Lakie> not* 21:41:04 <Lakie> Zipping (store) then transfering is usually faster... :/ 21:41:57 <Eddi|zuHause> how is zipping faster than copying [different disks, no network]? 21:42:42 <Lakie> Well, I was thinking more network, but I'm unsure of a faster solution for drives 21:43:15 <Eddi|zuHause> the point was to get the disk empty, so i can reuse it in the other computer as system disk 21:43:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so i can partition the 400MB disk, and leave the 2TB disk as one partition... 21:43:48 <Rubidium> yes, this copying of a 5 byte "file" is taking already 2:30... so it's definitely slow. There isn't even disk access... 21:44:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: ha ha. 21:44:07 <Lakie> Windows getting into nots? 21:44:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Lakie: he means /dev/zero 21:44:25 *** waldtroll [~goblin@krlh-5f7204a1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: good night] 21:44:40 <Lakie> Ah, *nix 21:44:47 <Rubidium> `cp /dev/zero /dev/null` to be precise 21:46:13 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:05 <Eddi|zuHause> what i don't understand is, why dolphin takes 90% CPU 21:47:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought kio_file is doing the actual copying 21:47:49 <Rubidium> it's trying to tell you about some highway? 21:48:35 <Rubidium> oh, sorry... a bypass 21:48:56 <Eddi|zuHause> err... what? 21:49:29 <Rubidium> don't panic! 21:49:39 <Eddi|zuHause> so... the bad thing is... as long as this thing is copying, i can't even turn off the computer to unplug the DVD drive to put it in the other computer... 21:54:39 <frosch123> hmm, what do the sizes of the stuff in /dev/ mean? 21:55:39 <frosch123> most of them seem to be arbitrary, like tty1 .. ttyxx using 1 to xx 21:55:48 <peter1138> major/minor device node numbers 21:56:08 <peter1138> it's not size :) 21:56:23 <frosch123> true, there are two numbers 21:56:33 <frosch123> never noticed them 21:58:27 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe83de00-38.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 21:59:44 <GT> SmatZ, are you around? 22:01:08 *** GhostlyDeath [~GhostlyDe@ool-ad03d241.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #openttd 22:01:28 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8138.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:01:37 <GhostlyDeath> Is there a way to reset the "Advanced Settings" to default? 22:01:45 <SmatZ> GT: hello 22:01:47 <frosch123> delete openttd.cfg 22:01:59 <frosch123> resp. the lines of the settings you want to reset 22:03:48 <GT> SmatZ: I was talking to Rubidium last week about this idea: the 32bpp blitters are converting the 8bpp mask to 32bpp palette colours every pixels, so I wanted to move the LookupColourInPalette from blitter to gfx, what do you think about that idea for optimizing the 32bpp blitter? 22:04:29 <GT> s/pixels/pixel/ 22:06:19 <Eddi|zuHause> how far away should a subwoofer be from a hard drive? :p 22:06:37 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:07:00 <GhostlyDeath> Eddi|zuHause: If you use an SSD, 1 inch, if you don't 1 mile 22:07:52 <SmatZ> uint r = remap[m]; 22:07:53 <SmatZ> if (r != 0) *dst = this->LookupColourInPalette(r); 22:08:29 <GT> Yeah, that line, nonsense to do that every pixel I think 22:08:31 <SmatZ> GT: do you mean something like create "remapped remap", which would be array of uint32s ? 22:09:24 <SmatZ> I am not sure if it would bring any performance improvements 22:09:44 <GhostlyDeath> I hope LookupColourInPalette is inlined if you draw in one giant loop 22:09:57 <SmatZ> all is inlined 22:10:04 <SmatZ> at least, should be :) 22:10:09 <SmatZ> and it was when I checked it 22:11:15 <GT> I made a diff where I create a 32bpp remap table in the spritecache when loading the recolor sprites, add a pointer to it at the end of the table, and in gfx just set the remap pointer, so the blitter does not need to do the indirection every remapped pixel anymore 22:12:15 <Eddi|zuHause> the manual says distance of any object to the subwoofer should be 15,24cm 22:12:31 <Eddi|zuHause> to ensure proper air flow 22:12:55 <Rubidium> do I smell a 6*4 in there? 22:13:20 <SmatZ> GT: how often is actually remapping made? 22:13:23 <GhostlyDeath> There any way to play the title screen map? 22:13:28 <SmatZ> if (r != 0) *dst = this->LookupColourInPalette(r); 22:13:33 <SmatZ> how do you solve this? 22:13:45 <Eddi|zuHause> the english part says 6 inches 22:13:46 <SmatZ> you still have to check for some flags, when the pixel isn't overwritten 22:14:00 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has quit [Quit: Quit] 22:14:05 <GT> Pretty often, like every vehicle and station 22:14:13 <GT> - uint r = remap[m]; 53 - if (r != 0) *dst = ComposeColourPA(this->LookupColourInPalette(r), src_px->a, *dst); 54 + Colour r = remap[m]; 55 + if (r.a != 0) { 56 + *dst = ComposeColourPA(r.data, src_px->a, *dst); 57 + } 22:14:25 <SmatZ> ok :) 22:14:37 <GhostlyDeath> I've never examined the code 22:15:18 <GT> Complete diff for the 32bpp-ez patch (but not to different from trunk): http://hg.openttdcoop.org/32bpp-ez-patches/file/d0475d02885f/lookupcolour_from_blit_to_gfx.diff 22:16:23 <GT> But because it is all inlined, I got some trouble profiling it, so I dont know the real performance gain 22:16:36 <SmatZ> + Blitter_32bppOptimized *blitter = (Blitter_32bppOptimized *)BlitterFactoryBase::GetCurrentBlitter(); 22:16:45 <SmatZ> umm, what does that do when you use other blitter? 22:16:57 <Rubidium> kabooom! :) 22:17:12 <SmatZ> :) 22:17:31 <GT> check for the screendepth =32 and skip 22:17:51 <GT> and certainly don't dynamic bind 22:18:05 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-78-102-180-216.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:18:36 <GhostlyDeath> Why do buses drive past the bus station down a long road only to turn around? 22:18:38 <GT> it's just a proof of concept, not a failsafe trunk patch 22:18:43 <SmatZ> actually, i might be static 22:18:46 <GhostlyDeath> and head to another station? 22:18:52 <SmatZ> as well as LookupColourInPalette() 22:19:25 <SmatZ> but yes, your idea makes sense 22:20:15 * SmatZ wonders about possible problems with animation 22:20:26 <SmatZ> but it seems recoloured pixels are never animated anyway 22:20:33 <SmatZ> (at least with 32bpp-anim) 22:20:37 <Rubidium> animation and 32bpp graphics are a huge problem in any case 22:20:58 <GT> Absolutely right 22:21:00 <Rubidium> or at least palette animation 22:21:05 <SmatZ> yeah :) 22:21:24 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-hkibrasgw1-ffe4c000-43.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 22:21:57 <GT> I even think that with the current state of affairs, you can drop the 32bpp-animated blitter, only makes sense when you use only 8bpp sprites 22:23:39 <Rubidium> true, dropping the 32bpp blitters has become easier as we don't support Mac OS X 22:23:48 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:58 <SmatZ> :) 22:24:55 *** Silasle [~silas_len@h88-206-139-246.vokby.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:25:07 <SmatZ> + byte *dest = (byte *)AllocSprite(max(RECOLOUR_SPRITE_SIZE, num) + sizeof(byte *)); 22:25:20 <SmatZ> GT: why not simply max(RECOLOUR_SPRITE_SIZE, num)*5 ? 22:26:27 <SmatZ> otoh, maybe blitter could do that work 22:26:34 <SmatZ> if it knew it's a recolour sprite 22:26:39 <SmatZ> in Blitter::Encode 22:27:40 <SmatZ> maybe it could use Blitter::EncodeRecolour instead 22:28:08 <GT> 64bit architectures? 22:28:29 <GT> pointers might be longer than 4 bytes 22:28:38 *** GecK [Geck@pro75-3-82-229-184-63.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 22:28:41 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-20-175.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:29:12 <SmatZ> GT: why store a pointer instead of storing the 32bit colours in the encoded sprite? 22:29:32 <SmatZ> so you could get rid of +} _rgb_palettes[MAX_PALETTE_TABLES] = {{0,{{0}}}}; 22:29:47 <SmatZ> +static const int MAX_PALETTE_TABLES = 50; 22:29:52 <SmatZ> with an artificial limit 22:30:48 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-32-190.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 22:30:51 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 22:31:00 <GT> storing the table iso a pointer would be better, but my goal was to get rid of the lookupcolour, I'm just taking one step at a time 22:31:51 <GT> Imo, the palettes should not even be in the blitter, but in gfx, but that is another matter 22:32:36 <Rubidium> why? "Applying" the palette is something that happens at the blitting stage 22:33:23 <GT> no, 32bpp blitters dont know the concept palette, or at least shouldnt 22:33:53 <GT> the blitter should apply a recolour with a 32bpp colour 22:34:22 <Rubidium> but the "gfx" isn't aware of 32 vs 8 bits colours 22:34:42 <GT> imo it should 22:35:01 <Rubidium> that'll get messy pretty quickly 22:35:06 <GT> why 22:35:36 <GhostlyDeath> Uh oh 22:35:45 <GhostlyDeath> I wasn't paying attention and a computer player built roads everywhere 22:35:51 <GhostlyDeath> Can I destroy his stuff? 22:36:01 <GT> getting the 8bpp recolour/palette info to the blitter is even bringing that info to a more lower layer 22:36:09 <GhostlyDeath> Maybe I'll get two vehicles on his road 22:36:12 <Rubidium> GT: GfxFillRect, GfxDrawLine, DrawBox and the likes? They all use palette colours 22:36:14 <GhostlyDeath> and have them both stop both ways 22:36:15 <Ammler> GhostlyDeath: stop_ai 22:36:45 <GT> Yes, and in my patch they convert that to 32bpp before hitting the blitter 22:36:50 <Rubidium> if that needs to support 32bpp colours as well, you'd need to the 8 vs 32bpp split even further down into the code 22:37:10 *** fanioz [~fanioz@180.214.233.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:37:28 *** Chrill [~Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 22:37:29 <GT> I mean, why would a 32bpp blitter need to know about a palette remap? 22:37:55 <GT> or an 8bpp blitter about 32bpp recolour 22:38:04 <Rubidium> for the (palette) animation 22:38:12 <Rubidium> i.e. backward compatability 22:38:58 <GT> even in that case, map the 8bpp colours to 32bpp ones before hitting the 32bpp animated blitter 22:39:03 <Rubidium> actually a bit of palette conversion crap is already handled at load time 22:39:54 <Rubidium> so put a small wrapper around the 32bpp blitters that convert the palette stuff to 32bpp native colours 22:40:28 <GT> yes, and let's call it gfx.cpp 22:40:30 <Rubidium> the 8bpp codepath shouldn't be bothered with the fact that 32bpp doesn't quite like palette conversions 22:40:39 <GT> agreed 22:40:46 <GT> and vv 22:42:02 <GT> so somewhere in the layered stack of graphical functions the conversion needs to be made, imo that should not be at pixel level but at sprite level i.e. gfx 22:43:22 <Rubidium> so more at load time? 22:43:42 <GT> yes, 22:44:29 <Rubidium> you might be able to fill the r, g and b stuff in spriteloaded/grf.cpp and use that if a 32bpp blitter is loaded 22:45:35 <Rubidium> you'd still have "palettes" though they'd be rgb(a?) 22:45:47 <Rubidium> well, rgb(a) as well 22:46:02 <GT> What I did is load it in spritecache when a recolor sprite is read, when the screendepth is 32bpp, but I may ahv missed a case 22:46:08 <Rubidium> and you could interpret "palette" as "colour lookup" 22:48:21 * SmatZ back from phone 22:48:37 <GT> so indeed, rgba palettes, but only filled once, when the recolor sprites are loaded, which also may be the case when loading newgrf, which is a lot better than a palette lookup every remap pixel in the blitter, now it's a question of setting the pointer to the correct 32bpp palette before drawing the sprite 22:49:10 <GT> Or, as SmatZ suggested, even exted the spritecache with the 32bpp values 22:49:29 <SmatZ> that wouldn't break the separation of gfx and blitters 22:49:52 <GT> which may even be extended with hsl values for better 32bpp cc drawing 22:49:56 <Rubidium> oh, the blitter "encodes" the 8bpp sprites to 32bpp sprites 22:50:12 <SmatZ> yeah, for speed :) 22:50:18 <Rubidium> but not for recolour sprites 22:50:26 <SmatZ> yeah, for compatibility :) 22:51:04 <Rubidium> but for the 32bpp "encoding" the recolour sprite with 32bpp colours would be better 22:51:14 <SmatZ> yeah 22:51:21 <SmatZ> the cleanest solution imo 22:56:39 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 22:57:58 <GT> What happens now is that the sprites get loaded and converted to 32bpp colours, but the masks are still in 8bpp, and the blitter has to do a table lookup to convert from 8bpp to 32bpp using the palette as defined in the /tables, but it does a lookup for every pixel, where a onetime conversion would suffice 22:58:27 <SmatZ> from what I tested, ~15% of pixels drawn are looked up 22:58:56 <GT> every screen / sprite redraw 22:59:10 <Rubidium> if animation is disabled, right? 22:59:20 <SmatZ> Rubidium: yup, with 32bpp-optimized 22:59:25 <Rubidium> if palette animation is enabled those lookups are kinda needed 23:00:16 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:00:23 <GT> yes, but that wouldnt work very well when you would actually use 32bpp sprites iso of just drawing 8bpp sprites with an 32bpp blitter 23:01:09 <GT> like using a palette of 8**3 23:01:50 <Rubidium> how much can the optimised blitter be simplified if you trash all support for palette animation in there? 23:01:50 <GT> chance of finding the right pixel is not to big 23:02:18 <Rubidium> and how much code would you need to add to the 32bpp-anim blitter? 23:02:18 <GT> nothing, optimised doesnt do animation 23:02:25 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8138.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:02:45 <Rubidium> GT: aren't those palette lookups due to the palette animation? 23:02:53 <Rubidium> hmm... oh... recolour stuff 23:03:08 <Rubidium> that complicates it 23:03:46 <Eddi|zuHause> recolour like company colour? 23:04:09 <Rubidium> so basically either throw a lot of memory at it and cache recoloured sprites or waste some CPU to replace the pixels at run time 23:04:13 *** avdg [~avdg@94-227-100-192.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:04:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm thinking cached sprites should be better 23:04:39 <Eddi|zuHause> spontaneously 23:04:48 <Eddi|zuHause> people tend to have more RAM spare than CPU 23:04:59 <GhostlyDeath> There are 4 industries on the curernt game I am playing 23:05:05 <GhostlyDeath> None give what another wants 23:05:21 <GhostlyDeath> Swamill missing forest, oil refinery missing oil pumping 23:05:32 <GhostlyDeath> Factory missing grains and livestock 23:05:36 <Eddi|zuHause> GhostlyDeath: probably should play a slightly bigger map 23:05:45 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: depends on what kind of hardware you've got. If you've got a relatively small cache and really slow memory the CPU stuff might be faster 23:06:33 <Rubidium> the primary slowdown reason for CPUs is cache misses 23:06:34 *** welshdragon [~dragon@millsie.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:06:37 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i really could use another half meter of chinch cables... 23:07:35 <GhostlyDeath> Eddi|zuHause: luckily all the incompatible industries are right next to each other! 23:08:05 <GhostlyDeath> at most 4 tiles away in one direction 23:08:11 <Rubidium> and as there are, in theory, a "near" infinite number of recolour maps you need some clever way to cache them 23:08:30 <Rubidium> i.e. the spritecache might not be sufficient anymore 23:09:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: how many recolour sprites can be applied to one sprite? 23:09:31 <Rubidium> 256 with ease 23:09:41 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... evil... 23:09:42 <Rubidium> and that's "just" 2cc 23:09:55 <Lakie> Hehe 23:09:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i mean after another 23:10:09 <Rubidium> don't know 23:10:09 *** LaSeandre [~sean@millsie.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:10:11 <Lakie> Isn't it one? 23:10:18 <Rubidium> I reckon it's pretty darn low 23:10:21 <GT> any way, I've got to go, cu soon 23:10:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: as in, can an already recoloured sprite be recoloured again 23:10:27 <Lakie> (I guess maybe two depending on how you convert from palettes) 23:10:47 <Rubidium> Lakie: that happens at sprite load, so nothing is really aware of that 23:11:06 <Lakie> Ah, then I imagine its one like TTDPatch. 23:11:08 <Rubidium> though 1 sounds like a good initial guess 23:11:17 <Lakie> (And TTD) 23:11:20 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 23:11:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: the question is, is that really 1. or are there cases where it can be 2? 23:11:33 <Rubidium> but I agree with GT that it's sufficiently late to do something else 23:11:34 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-67-91.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11:41 <GhostlyDeath> Would I be able to get the game to add oil sometime in the future? 23:11:46 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: as I said, I don't know 23:11:50 <GhostlyDeath> It's just gonna me mail and people for years 23:11:54 <GhostlyDeath> be* 23:11:57 <Rubidium> and can't be bothered to figure it out 23:12:38 <Lakie> If memory serves, bites 31-16 store the recolour map? 23:12:40 <Eddi|zuHause> if it's really 1, it could be enough to use some tricky hashing to use (sprite number, recolour sprite number) as cache index... 23:12:42 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.15.143] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 23:13:06 <Eddi|zuHause> where for "normal" sprites, the recolour sprite number could be 0 23:13:14 <Eddi|zuHause> then you can unify it 23:14:32 <Rubidium> but the spritecache has a stub with (size/type) data for each sprite and a pointer into the actual spritecache 23:14:36 <Rubidium> so hashing won't quite work 23:15:59 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-97-74.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:16:18 *** KouDy2 [~KouDy@ip-78-102-180-216.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:18:41 <Rubidium> you'd pretty much need to rewrite the spritecache from scratch to take this into account 23:19:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know anything about the internals of the sprite cache, was just an idea... 23:19:10 <Rubidium> although you might consider getting rid of the whole idea of spritecache and just never free loaded sprites until reloading the game 23:19:19 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5D54.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:19:46 <Rubidium> low memory devices won't like it though 23:19:46 *** GT [~GT@rt-scb-9f41.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:20:35 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: there are two drawing modes: 23:20:50 <frosch123> either draw a sprite while recolouring it with a single recolouring 23:20:56 <frosch123> or recolour the current screencontents 23:21:16 <frosch123> the latter is used for shadows, newspaper, glass, etc 23:21:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see how the latter can be cached at all... 23:22:02 <frosch123> though the latter is not really supported by the 32bpp blitters 23:22:30 <frosch123> i.e. they catch the default coloursprites for those 3 cases and then do something on their own 23:22:47 <frosch123> i.e. newstations-like green glass won't work with 32bpp 23:28:16 <GhostlyDeath> Is it possible to create a game that I can just watch the AI play on? 23:28:44 <GhostlyDeath> that is, starting from scratch a bunch of AIs duke it out to the death 23:28:49 <Chrill> GhostlyDeath: Not sure. However, just start a normal game with AIs, and dont build anything 23:29:03 <Chrill> to avoid financial concerns, you can cheat yourself some money 23:29:15 <frosch123> there are about a dozen threads with ai-only battles in the noai subforum 23:29:29 <Chrill> see, when Chrill replies, he's always way off 23:29:40 <Chrill> :) 23:29:54 <GhostlyDeath> Shouldn't I just repay my loan back? 23:30:12 <Chrill> GhostlyDeath: there are still some expenses afaik 23:30:25 <Eddi|zuHause> my attempts at ai only games resulted in me starting to build something anyway, and the game getting really slow after a while... 23:31:15 <GhostlyDeath> How would I get more money then? 23:31:49 <Eddi|zuHause> man... i should have done this copying yesterday, when i thought of it... 23:32:59 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, if i push the output of dd through gzip, can i sensibly mount that image afterwards? 23:34:06 <GhostlyDeath> Is 3 billion dollars enough? 23:34:31 <GhostlyDeath> heh, cheat menu makes everything easier 23:34:33 <Eddi|zuHause> GhostlyDeath: if you don'T have any loan, you lose like 100$ per year 23:34:53 <Chrill> GhostlyDeath: everything is easier at default 23:34:58 <Chrill> cheats are.. well 23:35:02 <Chrill> I use build in pause mode 23:35:02 <frosch123> just start a multiplayergame and join only as spectator 23:35:08 <GhostlyDeath> I'm losing money in Other 23:35:12 <GhostlyDeath> 50 bucks here and there 23:35:46 <GhostlyDeath> AI bought a truck thing 23:36:03 <Eddi|zuHause> they do that, yes. 23:36:12 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what the game is about, usually 23:36:34 <Eddi|zuHause> many AIs focus on road, since that's the easiest 23:36:35 <GhostlyDeath> Using the AdmiralAI 23:37:06 <Eddi|zuHause> should just avoid having two AIs of the same personality 23:37:17 <frosch123> night 23:37:22 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fc8f9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:24 <Eddi|zuHause> they tend to get in each others way 23:38:02 <GhostlyDeath> all the more fun 23:38:04 *** KingJ [~KingJ-OFT@95.154.197.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:38:14 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... did we ask whether the "night" is actually scripted? 23:38:47 <Eddi|zuHause> GhostlyDeath: no, the not-fun-way of getting in the way 23:39:27 <GhostlyDeath> Heh, two AIs are using the same thing 23:39:31 <GhostlyDeath> Wood to a sawmill 23:41:26 *** Yexo_ [~Yexo@153-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 23:41:44 *** Yexo is now known as Guest1492 23:41:44 *** Yexo_ is now known as Yexo 23:42:36 *** Guest1492 [~Yexo@153-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:43:40 <GhostlyDeath> I downloaded some extra AIs and they are all random 23:48:05 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 23:49:05 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19BBF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:58:26 *** `Fuco` [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:59:07 <Wolf01> 'night 23:59:14 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host142-59-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]