Log for #openttd on 2nd October 2010:
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00:58:31  <Lakie> Um, am I the only one having issues with object cb15C?
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01:05:55  <TruePikachu> Hmm...any major developments sinve 1.0.4?
01:06:05  <TruePikachu> s/sinve/since
01:06:10  <Lakie> objects support in trunk?
01:06:37  <TruePikachu> Oh. Well, I've been out of the community for a while
01:07:10  <Lakie> Theres probably quite a bit but I don't follow OpenTTD too closely to tell you. :)
01:07:15  <TruePikachu> Wait, what kind of objects? Objects in-game, or object-oriented objects a la C++
01:07:25  <Lakie> Um, newgrf objects, classA
01:07:46  <Lakie> ?
01:08:02  * TruePikachu is glad he's SSHing from PuTTY under Windows
01:08:44  * Lakie inserts some more asserts to attempt to workout whats happening
01:09:01  <Lakie> Since it appears I cannot set breakpoints in vs
01:09:35  <TruePikachu> Wait, so now we should be able to build objects under bridges?
01:09:43  <Lakie> In thoery?
01:09:57  <TruePikachu> I mean, like bridge OVER a station
01:10:04  <glx> no
01:10:07  <Lakie> um, negitive
01:10:17  <glx> stations are stations, not objects
01:11:41  <TruePikachu> Oh...well, bridges over industries?
01:12:20  <Lakie> I'm guessing not
01:13:17  <TruePikachu>, are these objects going to work kind of like objects in Sims, where each object gets it's own behaviour, instead of using the map array?
01:13:56  <Lakie> Objects are refered to as "eye candy"
01:14:13  <Lakie> In essence tile(s) which are used purely for decoration
01:14:38  <TruePikachu> And that's it? We're just adding ee candy?
01:14:41  <TruePikachu> *eye
01:15:13  <Lakie> Well, thats newgrf "objects", yes
01:16:06  <TruePikachu> So, basically, looking at the past few developments I've seen, trunk is currently working on improving NewGRF compatability?
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01:20:05  <Lakie> Unsure,
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01:28:56  <glx> objects are a new newgrf feature
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05:49:00  <Carci> I'm feeling kinda proud of how this little map's turning out. :D
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07:13:58  <GecK> hi
07:14:13  <Carci> Hiya
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08:00:39  <peter1138> So... ext4 vs xfs...?
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08:47:13  <dihedral> morning
08:54:05  <dihedral> why on earth this that new patch packs size over 7MB for a linux build?
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09:01:26  <Alberth> debug symbols?
09:01:59  <Alberth> just download the patch, and build yourself :)
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09:18:07  <Rubidium> because it contains the original graphics and such?
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09:27:04  <peter1138> hurr
09:28:37  <Rubidium> peter1138: what do you want to use the file system on? A server with jails?
09:29:03  <Rubidium> in that case I'd suggest one of the reiserfs-es ;)
09:30:47  <peter1138> hurr hurr hurr
09:30:53  <peter1138> no, just /home on my home pc
09:34:25  * Rubidium never conciously looked into the real differences between ext[234] and xfs; I'm personally using ext4 by now, though openttd's server uses xfs
09:35:00  <Rubidium> seems like zernebok uses reiserfs
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09:35:34  <peter1138> ouch
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09:38:48  <Rubidium> do you want to has file creation timestamps, use ext4. Do you want to be able to resize while the FS is mounted, use xfs
09:39:57  <__ln__> do + has = bjarni grammar
09:40:07  <Rubidium> oh... didn't know that for ext[234] a binary doesn't need to be loaded into RAM to be executed
09:40:39  <Rubidium> but then xfs has snapshots and ext[234] doesn't
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09:46:40  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20862 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h): -Codechange: Make AyStar_Free() a method.
09:47:48  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20863 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h): -Codechange: Make AyStarMain_Loop a method.
09:47:54  <__ln__> A method?  Is that Java?
09:48:05  <Alberth> c++ also has methods :)
09:49:19  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20864 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h npf.cpp): -Codechange: Make AyStar_Clear() a method.
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09:49:25  <__ln__> C++ has member functions
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09:52:09  <Alberth> Stroustrup says they are also called "method"
09:53:31  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20865 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h): -Codechange: Make AyStarMain_CheckTile() a method.
09:54:05  <Rubidium> oh booh... my guess what the next commit would be was wrong :(
09:54:56  <Rubidium> although the diff looks somewhat funky
09:55:12  <Rubidium> hmm, or not
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09:55:28  * Rubidium is just looking at the wrong lines of the diff
09:55:44  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20866 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h): -Codechange: CheckTile() always returns the same (ignored) value.
09:58:18  <Alberth> no worries, the next two are again predictable :)
09:58:22  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20867 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h npf.cpp): -Codechange: Make AyStarMain_AddStartNode() a method.
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09:59:56  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20868 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h npf.cpp): -Codechange: Make AyStarMain_Main() a method.
10:00:46  <TrueBrain> woei, someone is C++-ifying my and blathijs' work :D
10:01:12  <Alberth> hello TrueBrain :)
10:01:18  <__ln__>
10:02:44  <Alberth> __ln__: nice :D
10:03:32  * Alberth looks for more code changes (but first some food)
10:05:13  <Alberth> TrueBrain: a few weeks ago I c++-ified the binary heap, and came across this code too.
10:05:35  <Alberth> at the time I still had hope that people would have more interest in my industry creation patch :)
10:05:36  <TrueBrain> also from the same author's ;)
10:05:55  <Alberth> style is the same, so that was to be expected :)
10:06:46  <TrueBrain> the good old days
10:06:54  <TrueBrain> very very old code :)
10:06:57  <Alberth> although why you setup pointers to the 'methods' is still a mystery, as there are no other cases
10:07:10  <TrueBrain> portability
10:07:14  <TrueBrain> in that time it was 'hot'
10:07:16  <TrueBrain> :D
10:07:40  <Alberth> :D
10:08:12  <Rubidium> portability or reuseability?
10:08:56  <TrueBrain> modularity
10:14:17  <Alberth> how are the open dunes doing?
10:14:54  <TrueBrain> slowly
10:15:00  <TrueBrain> got side-tracked so often, I lost count :)
10:16:06  <Rubidium> 14 commits in 4 months
10:16:41  <Alberth> that qualifies as 'slow' indeed :)
10:17:10  <Rubidium> 26 in the last 4 months for TTDPatch
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11:57:11  <G> quick question, does PBS take into account distance to the end signal?
11:59:23  <Alberth> I don't even see how that could be relevant
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12:00:00  <Alberth> you are going to need x tiles to the destination, how could it be relevant in which block they are?
12:00:41  <G> good point, specifically in my example this is to a station, so it'd also be a shorter path to the station
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12:02:55  <Alberth> distance to the target *is* taken into account :)
12:04:09  <Ammler> afaik, it does use end signal for penalty calculation
12:04:30  <Ammler> you see that well, if you use 2way eol
12:05:20  <Alberth> You can open the openttd.cfg file in a text editor, to see all settings
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12:05:34  <G> hmmmm
12:05:49  <G> setting rail_look_ahead_signal_p1 to -90 seems to have helped
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12:23:55  <Luukland> Mr. dihedral :) Have you yet forwarded our comments on the new competition algorithm?
12:25:22  <peter1138> Oh hai
12:25:35  <peter1138> Whose EULA did you copy for your guidelines text? Hah
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12:54:09  <Rubidium> oh, that EULA. Still have to make a choice whether to prevent my not-a-proper-OpenTTD-client applications from connecting to those servers
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13:22:16  <Ammler> Luukland: where have you placed your comments?
13:22:28  <Ammler> maybe you better post those on forums or fs
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13:54:16  <Lnd> hello :3
13:54:50  <Lnd> quick question : is there a way to do multiple copies/clones of a vehicle at once ? (when you want to do 20 trucks copies for instance)
13:57:18  <Lnd> (oh nice, i have a forest with 6 sawmills just nearby :s ...)
13:58:51  <Alberth> not as far as I know
14:02:29  <peter1138> just click clone 20 times...
14:02:33  <peter1138> not hard :D
14:02:53  <frosch123> or build a train
14:04:44  <G> peter1138: the only thing w/ that is you suddenly get 20 little windows that you likely didn't want :)
14:06:16  * Eddi|zuHause remembers the time when building the 7th vehicle closes the depot window
14:09:07  <Eddi|zuHause> so... what does one do while the system installs?
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14:09:34  <Rubidium> ssh to your server and talk a bit or IRC
14:09:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i need a way to magically switch my mouse to control two PCs
14:10:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't need ssh (yet) to get to the "server"
14:10:38  <Rubidium> ssh to your server and write a chapter of your master thesis; after all that's written with LaTeX
14:10:45  <G> Eddi|zuHause: if you've got multiple monitors, use Synergy
14:11:00  <Eddi|zuHause> G: i have one monitor with two inputs
14:11:19  <Eddi|zuHause> DVI (new computer) and D-SUB (old computer)
14:11:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i have two keyboards, but only one mouse
14:11:41  <G> guess you could still use synergy
14:12:09  <Eddi|zuHause> well... i have a mini-joystick-kind-of-thingie-that-is-treated-like-a-mouse as well, but that's kinda weird to use
14:12:30  <SpComb> trackpoint (clone)
14:12:40  <SpComb> and you're wrong, they're awesome
14:13:43  <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: i don't know what you think this is, but the directions of movement are wrong... you need to hold it the wrong way around
14:14:41  <SpComb> hmm
14:14:46  <SpComb> possibly fixable in software
14:15:13  <Eddi|zuHause> and the cable is too short
14:22:57  <Eddi|zuHause> synergy looks fine... just i have no way to automatically switch the monitor input
14:29:30  <ccfreak2k> I use Synergy between my desktop and netbook.
14:31:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i have a feeling they have server and client mixed up...
14:31:04  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20869 /branches/1.0/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
14:31:04  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
14:31:04  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Assert when an industry previously build on water was flooded because its NewGRF changed/is missing [FS#4112] (r20754)
14:31:04  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Do not use new game settings when creating many random towns/industries in the scenario editor [FS#4094] (r20712, r20711)
14:31:04  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Graphic glitch when switching to a different-sized font while the chat message box was visible (r20705)
14:31:04  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Vehicle lists of non-trains could not resize horizontally causing truncation of texts [FS#4123, FS#3955] (r20174)
14:33:49  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20870 /branches/1.0/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs):
14:33:49  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
14:33:49  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Building 2x2 houses did not work for 2x2 road layouts on all map sizes (r20791)
14:33:49  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Remove a check which is wrong for NewGRF houses and serves no use for original houses [FS#4118] (r20790)
14:33:49  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Spelling mistake in slovak real town names (r20787)
14:33:50  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Do autosave-on-exit as well when using kill/CTRL-C to terminate a dedicated OpenTTD (r20783)
14:33:52  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] AIEventCompanyAskMerger was disguised as AIEventCompanyMerger (r20765)
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14:41:09  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20871 /branches/1.0/src/ (ai/api/ai_tile.hpp house.h newgrf.cpp newgrf_engine.cpp):
14:41:09  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
14:41:09  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Clamp/convert some vehicle variables so NewGRFs get their specified range (r20800, r20799, r20795)
14:41:09  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] Document that AITile::HasTransportType does not work for TRANSPORT_AIR [FS#4117] (r20798)
14:41:09  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Disable houses without a size that are available according to their building flags (r20797)
14:41:10  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Make sure all houses in the house spec array are valid. It was possible that part of a multitile house was not copied because the array was full (r20796)
14:41:29  <Eddi|zuHause> ideally i'd like to have a virtual windows on tty8 and a remote connection to my "server" on tty9
14:48:21  <Alberth> you can run several X servers at the same time
14:51:20  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20872 /branches/1.0/src/ (11 files in 2 dirs):
14:51:20  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk:
14:51:20  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Road/water toolbars did not get updated when the first vehicle of their type becomes available [FS#4141] (r20856)
14:51:20  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Smallmap legend buttons must all be equal in size, even if their contents is not (r20851)
14:51:20  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Deadlock when aborting map generation on Windows [FS#3707] (r20822)
14:51:20  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Be a bit more lenient w.r.t. invalid savegames; do not crash on saveload related NOT_REACHEDs, just show the user an error that the savegame is corrupted [FS#3714] (r20819)
14:51:22  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Fix: Make the crash-on-saveload message clearer and more correct [FS#3791] (r20818)
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15:04:07  <andythenorth_> afternoon
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15:15:14  <andythenorth_> Alberth: anyone else testing the industry patch?
15:15:30  <Alberth> no :( :( :(
15:15:41  <andythenorth_> ship it anyway :P
15:15:47  <andythenorth_> works for me
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15:16:19  <Alberth> everybody seems too busy hacking and playing random patch packs
15:16:35  <andythenorth_> maybe no-one plays any more :)
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15:17:53  <Alberth> I am wondering whether to join the enemy, and ask Chillcore to include the patch :p
15:19:20  <Ammler> Alberth: you have access to a "bigger" patch pack ;-)
15:19:29  <Ammler> some call it trunk :-)
15:21:44  <SpComb> sounds pretty arbitrary
15:21:46  <Rubidium> Ammler: any patchpack based on trunk is a bigger patch pack than trunk
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15:22:00  <SpComb> how is this "trunk" thing organized?
15:22:08  <Alberth> it is not :)
15:22:45  <Ammler> Rubidium: also true :-P
15:23:33  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... something's wrong with my network...
15:24:00  <Eddi|zuHause> as far as i can see, cable connectivity is fine, but pinging doesn't work
15:24:22  <Alberth> firewall?
15:24:26  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: what OS?
15:24:41  <Rubidium> SpComb: it's just adding patches on patches
15:24:44  <Eddi|zuHause> both linux
15:24:46  <Rubidium> not really organised
15:24:58  <Eddi|zuHause> local network should not be firewalled
15:25:18  <andythenorth_> Alberth: industry code is bonkers anyway....just add some more to the madness :)
15:25:18  <GhostlyDeath> Eddi|zuHause: Are you on the correct network?
15:25:43  <GhostlyDeath> Add a Jail Industry
15:25:53  <GhostlyDeath> Cities and Towns provide Criminals
15:25:59  <GhostlyDeath> Jail accepts prisoners
15:26:00  <Alberth> too negative
15:26:07  <GhostlyDeath> and supplies passengers
15:26:40  <Eddi|zuHause> both devices are set up as 192.168.10.x
15:26:41  <GhostlyDeath> Have it appear when everyone hates your company because you got bad ratings
15:26:50  <Eddi|zuHause> where x is 1 or 2
15:26:54  <GhostlyDeath> Eddi|zuHause: Connected to a router?
15:27:10  <Eddi|zuHause> connected to a switch, no router. 1 is the router
15:27:15  <SpComb> GhostlyDeath: the correct place for those is the suggestions forum, where they are appropriately ignored :)
15:27:28  <Eddi|zuHause> 1 would be the router, if it was reachable
15:27:32  <GhostlyDeath> I had trouble sleeping last night
15:27:41  <GhostlyDeath> Everytime I closed my eyes I saw OpenTTD
15:28:14  <__ln__> GhostlyDeath: with original graphics or opengfx?
15:28:20  <GhostlyDeath> Open
15:29:04  <GhostlyDeath> heh
15:29:09  <GhostlyDeath> Buses would be more useful
15:29:19  <GhostlyDeath> Instead of just transporting passengers, they can transport prisoners too
15:30:29  <GhostlyDeath> SpComb: Are the two computers far away?
15:31:14  <GhostlyDeath> router connected to switch with 50 footer, switch connected to pc with 50 footer?
15:31:25  <Alberth> alternatively, you can code a newgrf with that functionality
15:31:46  <GhostlyDeath> if it accepts C
15:32:12  <__ln__> GhostlyDeath: are there prisons?
15:32:25  <GhostlyDeath> In real life there are
15:34:29  <Alberth> NML is as close as you are going to get to C currently
15:34:37  <GhostlyDeath> NML?
15:34:48  <Alberth> luckily RL is not a design goal for OpenTTD :)
15:35:14  <Alberth>
15:35:21  <__ln__> GhostlyDeath: are there crimes in OpenTTD?
15:35:43  <GhostlyDeath> No, but you can add crime by making towns provide criminals
15:36:40  <__ln__> wouldn't that require a courthouse that provides criminals
15:37:19  <GhostlyDeath> would just be another building
15:41:59  * andythenorth_ ponders FIRS cargo chains :|
15:43:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i managed it...
15:43:55  <Eddi|zuHause> this setup thingie totally messed up the bridge configuration
15:44:14  <Eddi|zuHause> as in, it set up a bridge, but didn't add any devices into it
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15:47:57  <Alberth> andythenorth_: stop pondering, bring it to a 'finished' state instead :)
15:48:32  <Eddi|zuHause> anybody having a decent suggestion for replacing kaffeine? (as in, a program that can both do TV and video)
15:48:45  <GhostlyDeath> totem?
15:48:59  <Eddi|zuHause> what's that?
15:49:47  <GhostlyDeath> Media player
15:50:27  <Eddi|zuHause> it says gnome...
15:50:39  <GhostlyDeath> Doesn't matter
15:50:59  <GhostlyDeath> You don't need KDE to run KDE apps, you don't need GNOME to run GNOME apps
15:51:33  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but i don't put a pink roof on a yellow car either...
15:51:57  <GhostlyDeath> So you are limiting yourself to what fits in
15:52:22  <Eddi|zuHause> not limit, but prefer...
15:52:35  <GhostlyDeath> You can alwayse use QT-looks or something
15:52:42  <GhostlyDeath> makes GTK apps look like Qt
15:53:32  <GhostlyDeath> All it does is intercept GTK drawing calls and uses QT's drawing functions instead
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16:00:51  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe
16:00:56  <Eddi|zuHause> any other suggestions?
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16:08:24  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: why you need one app for both?
16:08:40  *** LaSeandre_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:08:49  <Ammler> just use smplayer, kaffeine, vlc at once :-)
16:09:32  <Ammler> vlc is imo still best for streaming things
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16:13:20  <GhostlyDeath> The new vlc sucks
16:13:53  <GhostlyDeath> They changed the interface to make it look all flashy
16:14:18  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: at least on my old computer, having two programs which need xv doesn't work
16:14:33  <Eddi|zuHause> and unaccelerated video really sucks
16:14:51  <Eddi|zuHause> and closing one app to start the other really sucks even more
16:14:54  <Ammler> I have also quite a old desktop for tv
16:15:05  <Ammler> if something doesn't work, with vlc it will
16:15:36  <Eddi|zuHause> and i don't need streaming
16:16:08  <Ammler> (PIII 800Mhz)
16:16:15  <GhostlyDeath> Get a media player that doesn't support MPEG, MP3, or OGG
16:16:53  <Ammler> but the box doesn't tune self, that is done by Dreambox
16:17:18  <GhostlyDeath> this computer has a TV tuner but I don't watch TV on it
16:17:23  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and i have a box that does tune...
16:17:41  <Eddi|zuHause> and i need an application that can use that tuner
16:17:41  <Ammler> isn't vlc able to?
16:17:44  <Eddi|zuHause> kaffeine can
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16:18:01  <Eddi|zuHause> but 0.8 is kde3, and 1.0 really sucks
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16:18:34  <Ammler> or use a VDR distro
16:19:01  <Ammler> xmms or so?
16:19:35  <Eddi|zuHause> what the hell would i need a "distro" for, if i'm searching for a simple application?
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16:22:29  <Ammler> :-)
16:22:47  <Ammler> xmms isn't btw. :-P
16:23:14  <GhostlyDeath> totem is simple
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16:24:32  <Ammler> too many gnome dependencies imo
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16:26:38  <GhostlyDeath> It just depends on gstreamer and GTK mostly
16:27:04  <GhostlyDeath> The only thing I see that is GNOME is gconf
16:27:31  <GhostlyDeath> and an extension for nautilus
16:28:12  <GhostlyDeath> None of the stuff depends on the core of GNOME at al
16:28:14  <GhostlyDeath> all*
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16:28:51  <GhostlyDeath> I use Window Maker
16:32:21  <Ammler> nautilus?
16:33:04  <Eddi|zuHause> the gnome file browser, afaik
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16:33:34  <Ammler> yes, quite bad, if you have it installed on a KDE system
16:33:47  <Eddi|zuHause> brb
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16:35:03  <GhostlyDeath> The dependecies in totem do not fall back to depending on nautilus at all
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16:36:41  <GhostlyDeath> I can remove nautilus without any incident, but even though I don't use it I have it installed anyway
16:37:21  <Ammler> well, I had some troubles to "teach" Firefox not using nautilus
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16:38:48  <GhostlyDeath> might be a mime type association problem
16:39:21  <GhostlyDeath> Currently in nautilus if I were to open a C file it would open in AbiWord
16:40:06  <GhostlyDeath> so i went into /usr/share/applications and similars and started changing things around
16:40:50  <GhostlyDeath> Would make associations in GNOME, KDE, XFCE, and other WMs that use FreeDesktop stuff stick
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16:47:15  <Katje> I am running openttd version 1.0.1 (from debian), and I have no working AI
16:47:18  <nicfer> luukland's server gms are fascists
16:47:19  <Katje> any ideas why ?
16:47:51  <nicfer> they banned me because I didn't answer a question
16:48:55  <nicfer> and then they didn't answer me and had to spam to call their attention
16:49:33  <Eddi|zuHause> Katje: need to download them
16:49:41  <Katje> any recommendations ?
16:49:51  <Eddi|zuHause> not really
16:50:33  <Eddi|zuHause> the ais are done by community people, not the openttd devs
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17:21:10  <Terkhen> hello
17:21:44  <Alberth> hello
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17:25:39  <Alberth> hmm, we don't have an overview of AIs at the wiki yet
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17:36:29  <Ammler>
17:38:35  <Alberth> I was looking for something with a few lines of description, so users can select an AI
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17:39:11  <Ammler> the bananas description doesn't fit?
17:41:12  <Alberth> I didn't realize it existed, but you are right, much better
17:44:59  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20873 /trunk/src/lang/ (arabic_egypt.txt dutch.txt spanish.txt unfinished/tamil.txt):
17:44:59  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:44:59  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 37 changes by kasakg
17:44:59  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changes by megabyte
17:44:59  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: spanish - 2 changes by Terkhen
17:44:59  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: tamil - 1 changes by vv
17:47:26  <GhostlyDeath> I shall write an AI that does nothing
17:47:37  <GhostlyDeath> or it just builds roads spending all of it's money and makes no profit
17:53:04  <Alberth> the former already exists
17:59:33  * Ammler should upload nothing.grf to bananas
18:02:32  <Alberth> oh, it will be downloaded very often,  just like my 'example staircase' heightmap :)    45639 times already
18:05:30  <andythenorth_> how much is the game downloaded at the moment?
18:05:37  <Rubidium> 0
18:06:16  <Rubidium> under the assumption that downloading is an atomic action of near 0 time
18:06:42  <andythenorth_> is that more or less than normal :P
18:06:48  <andythenorth_> ?
18:06:51  <Rubidium> the mean is 0
18:07:07  <andythenorth_> so about average then?
18:07:09  <andythenorth_> statistically
18:07:39  <Rubidium> hmm... this is going the wrong way...
18:07:57  <Rubidium> but then you should specify some timeframe for measurement instead of a single point in time
18:08:00  <andythenorth_> :)
18:08:15  <andythenorth_> how about monthyl
18:08:17  <andythenorth_> monthly /s
18:08:18  <andythenorth_> ?
18:08:30  <andythenorth_> how did september compare to previous n months?
18:08:50  <Rubidium> I'll update my pdf for you
18:09:01  <andythenorth_> seems forums are very quiet to me....some sub-forums don't change for days/weeks
18:09:10  <Rubidium> though that'll have daily counts
18:09:28  <andythenorth_> thanks
18:10:15  <Rubidium> <- there.. some graphs
18:10:37  <Rubidium> specially for you, without labels, legendas and the likes
18:12:51  <andythenorth_> is the y axis on the first chart downloads or bandwidth?
18:13:13  <Rubidium> downloads
18:13:44  <andythenorth_> one or two very big days :o
18:13:54  <andythenorth_> and generally increasing
18:14:18  <andythenorth_> so guessing interest in the game hasn't levelled out  / fallen
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18:14:29  <andythenorth_> maybe quiet forums == it's nearly done
18:14:41  <andythenorth_> or maybe bananas removes need to visit forums so much
18:16:53  <Rubidium> I think it's the general "begin of the school/university year" syndrom
18:17:36  <Rubidium> you can see a fair "lack" of commits during the weekdays in OpenTTD's repository as well
18:17:59  <andythenorth_> that'll be the 'work' syndrome
18:18:01  <andythenorth_> :)
18:18:25  <andythenorth_> in my case the 'work + baby' syndrome (different repo, same pattern)
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18:18:49  <Alberth> my repo's at work suffer from the 'weekend' syndrome :p
18:19:25  <Rubidium> well, I'd actually say that the begin of school year syndrome bleeds into the corporate world. Lots of new projects that get started up just after the holidays/vacation and such
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18:21:56  <andythenorth_> yup
18:22:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> hmz... different fonts look ugly
18:23:21  <Eddi|zuHause> yes they do.
18:24:42  <Rubidium> ghehe... and that given the research that humans have difficulty seeing differences
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18:25:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> but... it shouldn't be different at all..
18:25:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> i copied over the configuration
18:28:05  <Alberth> then perhaps different fonts are installed?
18:33:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have a feeling it's the screen resolution or dpi setting
18:34:54  <Rubidium> quite likely dpi
18:34:55  <ryx> I managed to get a tram completely stuck on a level crossing
18:36:18  <ryx> and as usual, asking in irc helps me resolve the problem...
18:36:24  <ryx> nevermind
18:39:56  <Eddi|zuHause> default connected 1680x1050+0+0 0mm x 0mm
18:40:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> DVI-0 connected 1680x1050+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 473mm x 296mm
18:40:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> output of xrandr
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19:21:08  <GhostlyDeath> Are there any interactive training tutorials?
19:24:17  <Alberth> the wiki has a small tutorial, and there are youtube videos
19:26:32  <Ammler> we have a tut save, but might be a bit old...
19:28:55  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20874 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h npf.cpp): -Codechange: Make init_AyStar a method.
19:30:06  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20875 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h): -Codechange: Make AyStarMain_OpenList_Add a method.
19:31:12  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20876 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h): -Codechange: Make AyStarMain_OpenList_Pop a method.
19:31:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> updates to npf?
19:32:16  <Alberth> just refactoring the code towards c++-ish
19:32:22  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20877 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h): -Codechange: Make AyStarMain_OpenList_IsInList a method.
19:33:09  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20878 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h): -Codechange: Make AyStarMain_ClosedList_Add a method.
19:33:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... either my mainboard or my dvd drive is a few millimeter too long for this case...
19:34:15  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20879 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h): -Codechange: Make AyStarMain_ClosedList_IsInList a method.
19:35:11  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: nothing a saw can solve
19:38:04  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20880 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp queue.cpp queue.h): -Codechange: Make Hash_Size a method.
19:38:44  <andythenorth_> how about a 'fund random industry' button
19:38:47  <andythenorth_> ?
19:39:17  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20881 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp queue.cpp queue.h): -Codechange: Make Hash_Get a method.
19:39:54  <Alberth> close your eyes and click at the window :p
19:41:10  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20882 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp queue.cpp queue.h): -Codechange: Make Hash_Set a method.
19:42:01  * Rubidium points to $baby for that feature
19:42:27  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20883 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp queue.cpp queue.h): -Codechange: Make Hash_Delete a method.
19:43:14  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20884 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp queue.cpp queue.h): -Codechange: Make clear_Hash a method.
19:43:20  <Rubidium> wow... over 20 commits in 10 hours... what a difference with the previous days
19:43:28  * andythenorth_ likes Alberth's suggestion :P
19:43:41  <Alberth> cats also work, ask Eddi :)
19:44:41  <Alberth> Rubidium: they are quite boring
19:44:44  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20885 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp queue.cpp queue.h): -Codechange: Make delete_Hash a method.
19:46:08  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20886 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp queue.cpp queue.h): -Codechange: Make init_Hash a method.
19:47:05  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20887 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (queue.cpp queue.h): -Codechange: Make stat_Hash a method.
19:48:29  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20888 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (queue.cpp queue.h): -Codechange: Make Hash_FindNode a method.
19:51:05  <Ammler> does someone still use npf?
19:51:20  <Ammler> or is that for save compatibilty?
19:51:51  <Alberth> No idea, it is code that can be improved :)
19:53:02  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20889 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h): -Codechange: Make ClosedListHash, OpenListQueue, and OpenListHash data protected, and rename for coding style.
19:55:12  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20890 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/ (aystar.cpp aystar.h): -Doc: Make documentation accessible to doxygen.
19:59:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... i can't get this tv card to tune...
20:00:05  <Rubidium> Ammler: it's pretty useful to figure out whether something is PF related or not
20:01:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> Alberth: actually, my cats tend to avoid stepping on the keyboard
20:02:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> using it as pillow, on the other hand...
20:02:34  <Alberth> :)
20:02:58  <planetmaker> g'evening
20:04:26  <Terkhen> hello planetmaker
20:04:37  <Rubidium> it's evening? Oh crap...
20:05:46  <planetmaker> :-D sky is dark at least here ;-)
20:05:57  <andythenorth_> hi planetmaker
20:07:06  <Rubidium> oh, that's the reason why I'm not pushed as hard away from the window as I was a few hours ago :)
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20:22:06  <planetmaker> hehe. Exactly
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20:38:54  <insulfrog> evening all
20:39:00  <Terkhen> hi insulfrog
20:39:13  <davis> hi
20:39:41  <Sacro> hey insulfrog
20:40:39  <insulfrog> got a quick question, has anyone tried to build a 2-X-2 5-way elec rail junction in openttd?
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20:41:22  <X-2> lol highlight :p
20:41:49  <V453000> insulfrog: roundabout ftw? :)
20:42:20  <Terkhen> :D
20:42:48  <insulfrog> I'm trying to construct one myself and it's a bit of a pain to do
20:42:56  <V453000> but 3ways should be always sufficient I think :)
20:46:09  <Alberth> I think you need priority signalling for a round about
20:47:21  <insulfrog> I already got a temporary roundabout in place while the 'tangle' is being built
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20:47:52  * TruePikachu hates X
20:48:06  <V453000> Alberth: what is bad about that :)
20:48:09  <TruePikachu> (as in X22)
20:48:14  <insulfrog> roundabouts are nice but they are always 'join before split' and not always a good option in a very high traffic area
20:48:18  <TruePikachu> *X11 :P
20:48:18  <V453000> but well ... not a good thing :)
20:48:29  <V453000> insulfrog: indeed :)
20:48:30  <Alberth> they tend to deadlock
20:48:33  <V453000> 3ways ftw
20:48:59  <TruePikachu> However, roundabouts don't need to be as complex as standard junctions
20:49:23  * TruePikachu has touched in their use before - they are SLOW
20:50:17  <TruePikachu> So, now, I use roundabouts on freight-only lines; they are slow, but as efficient as needed space-wise. PAX still uses traditional junctions
20:51:16  <TruePikachu> Well, anyway, Windows cannot connect to my Linux box through X11 :(
20:51:42  <TruePikachu> I wanted to see if I'd get some kind of speed increase, but I can't tell now
20:51:46  <insulfrog> I don't use any roundabouts at all as they tend to clog up often, which even on sidelines can have a knock-on effect on the running on the mainline
20:52:25  <TruePikachu> ^^ yes, my FGT roundabouts clogged up often, but they never deadlocked, but that's because I prevented a full roundabout
20:53:20  * TruePikachu wonders how to get X11 set up so that Windows can connect to Linux to play OpenTTD
20:54:11  <Alberth> X11 has no problem with remote connections, mostly Windows does not understand natively that the machine with the monitor and the machine where you work can be different
20:54:34  <TruePikachu> Well, I've gotten XDM going off root on the box...
20:54:50  <TruePikachu> ...and I've gotten Xming here on Windows...
20:55:25  <TruePikachu> I don't understand what's wrong
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20:56:01  <Alberth> I have used vnc in the past, but that was about 10 years ago. Haven't touched a Windows machine since.
20:56:42  <TruePikachu> understand I'm connect from Win to Linux to run OTTD on Linux, and not the other way around, right?
20:57:00  <TruePikachu> (OTTD runs on Linux, displays on Win)
20:58:21  <TruePikachu> Well, anyway, I get xming going, have it connect to <Linux IP>, and, after asking me for my pass, it just quits
21:00:07  <Alberth> does the X server allow remote connections?  Nowadays, they don't listen at sockets any more by default
21:00:19  <TruePikachu> I don't know, how would I check?
21:00:37  <Noldo> ssh -X ?
21:01:11  <Noldo> or the same with putty and some kind of X for windows
21:01:41  <TruePikachu> I'm using xming as an X server on Windows
21:02:35  <TruePikachu> Under putty, I need to specify an X display location. Would that be pointing to the Linux, or to the Windows?
21:03:22  <TruePikachu> (X11 forwarding)
21:03:39  <TruePikachu> I would assume the Windows box, but I haven't had much luck at all...
21:04:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> X always runs on your local computer
21:04:03  <frosch123> you also need to enable x11 forwarding in the sshd configuration
21:04:23  <Alberth> but you don't need a X server at windows if you display stuff at the unix machine
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21:04:43  <TruePikachu> Eddi|zuHause2 and Alberth: I know
21:04:48  <TruePikachu> frosch123: How would I set that?
21:05:15  <frosch123>  /etc/ssh/ssh_config
21:05:22  <TruePikachu> Wait, Eddi|zuHause2 and Alberth: nvm mind
21:06:03  <Alberth> run 'ssh -v -v -v' you get a more verbose output then
21:06:03  <TruePikachu> frosch123: What do I add?
21:06:17  <TruePikachu> Alberth: wouldn't 'ssh -vvv' work?
21:06:24  <frosch123> usually you just need to uncomment a line or change some no to yes
21:06:31  <Alberth> probably that would work too
21:06:46  <TruePikachu> frosch123: OR? I have a commented line with 'yes'
21:07:00  <frosch123> the default is no
21:07:31  <TruePikachu> Okay; entire file minus comments: (pending)
21:07:42  <TruePikachu> ForwardX11 yes
21:07:55  <TruePikachu> # EOF
21:08:12  <TruePikachu> That's it?
21:08:33  <frosch123> maybe
21:08:41  * TruePikachu goes to reboot computer
21:08:46  *** TruePikachu [] has quit [Quit: Rebooting...]
21:09:00  <frosch123> restarting sshd might be enough :p
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21:11:58  <frosch123> did you modify ssh_config (as i said incorrectly) or sshd_config? :p
21:12:15  <TruePikachu> ssh_config
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21:12:59  <TruePikachu> Ummm...but I forgot to save changes :P
21:13:04  <TruePikachu> lol
21:13:08  <frosch123> was the wrong file anyway
21:13:32  <frosch123> also you do not need to reboot, it is not windows
21:14:06  <frosch123> just restart the service
21:14:41  <TruePikachu>'s readonly
21:14:54  <TruePikachu> frosch123: I'll have to be back later
21:15:04  <TruePikachu> But changing that should be all?
21:15:29  <frosch123> it was enough for my x11 forwarding from gentoo to debian
21:16:05  <frosch123> no idea about windows clients
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21:22:28  <GhostlyDeath> The speed of the oil tanker is pathetic
21:22:30  <GhostlyDeath> 15mph
21:22:52  <GhostlyDeath> however, it's all much cheaper than creating a bridge that is 50 tiles long
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21:34:43  <GhostlyDeath> This is a bad bug, if you choose Imperial measurements, oil is in liters instead of gallons
21:35:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> that can't be changed
21:35:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> and it's actually in 1000 litres
21:35:35  <GhostlyDeath> It can internally be kept in liters, but displayed as gallons
21:35:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, it can't
21:35:49  <GhostlyDeath> why not?
21:36:19  <Rubidium> yes, why not?
21:36:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> because it's (internal units) + (postfix)
21:36:34  <GhostlyDeath> You can't convert a number then pass it to the dialog to be drawn?
21:36:46  <GhostlyDeath> It's most likely already done with mph and km/h
21:36:56  <GhostlyDeath> and with money
21:37:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> mph vs. km/h is different, because they're both totally arbitrary anyway. and money can only be converted in whole factors
21:38:07  <__ln__> or do you mean the postfix contains the three zeros?
21:38:33  <GhostlyDeath> Do you store the contents of a station/vehicle in a string?
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21:38:42  <Rubidium> 265 gallons = 1000 liter, right?
21:38:59  <GhostlyDeath> 264
21:39:10  <GhostlyDeath> 264.172052
21:39:24  <frosch123> @calc 264*30
21:39:24  <DorpsGek> frosch123: 7920
21:39:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> if x gallons = 1000 litre, then 1000/x must be a whole number for this to be feasible
21:39:46  <frosch123> isn't playing a game iwth 7920 gallon tankwagons weird?
21:40:16  <Rubidium> @calc 264.172052*4
21:40:16  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 1056.688208
21:40:19  <Rubidium> @calc 264.172052*8
21:40:19  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 2113.376416
21:40:22  <Rubidium> @calc 264.172052*16
21:40:22  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 4226.752832
21:40:25  <Rubidium> @calc 264.172052*32
21:40:25  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 8453.505664
21:40:28  <Rubidium> @calc 264.172052*64
21:40:29  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 16907.011328
21:40:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't think that gets better :p
21:40:46  <GhostlyDeath> I like my gallons
21:41:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> @calc 1000/264
21:41:05  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause2: 3.78787878788
21:41:10  <GhostlyDeath> I prefer my oil tanker to tell me I have 58k gallons of oil
21:41:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> @calc 1000/3
21:41:15  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause2: 333.333333333
21:41:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> @calc 1000/4
21:41:24  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause2: 250
21:41:36  <frosch123> surprise
21:41:40  <GhostlyDeath> If you limit yourself to integer math, you can always (* 100) / 10000
21:41:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> GhostlyDeath: basically you can choose between these two numbers
21:42:19  <Rubidium>,%201950-01-07.png <- seems to work
21:42:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> GhostlyDeath: but people WILL complain that they are not accurate enough
21:42:39  <GhostlyDeath> Eddi|zuHause2: add more of a multiplier
21:42:55  <Rubidium> how many m3 is that?
21:43:19  <GhostlyDeath> Rubidium: I like that
21:43:23  <Rubidium> (just to check my calculations are correct)
21:43:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> @calc 23232/264.172052
21:43:29  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause2: 87.9426866851
21:43:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> @calc 23232/264
21:43:41  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause2: 88
21:43:57  <Rubidium> good, then it's correct enough
21:44:34  <GhostlyDeath> 1 liters is 0.264172052 gallons
21:45:08  <Rubidium> hmm... problem
21:45:19  <Rubidium> a imperial gallon is 4.54609 litres
21:45:26  <Rubidium> @calc 1000/4.54609
21:45:26  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 219.969248299
21:45:41  <frosch123> :p
21:46:12  <GhostlyDeath> Rubidium: Which gallong are you using?
21:46:23  <GhostlyDeath> 1 US Gallon is 3.78541178 liters
21:46:27  <GhostlyDeath> -g
21:46:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> but it's called "imperial", and not "us"
21:46:45  <Rubidium> I'm using the thing google gave me, which is US
21:46:53  <GhostlyDeath> Google said that to me
21:46:55  <Rubidium> and there's also an imperial gallon
21:47:14  <GhostlyDeath> The US is the only country using Imperial really
21:47:16  <Rubidium> which is basically the UK gallon, which is abandonned as they use litres now
21:47:29  <Prof_Frink> 'cept for milk and beer.
21:48:18  <Prof_Frink> And measuring fuel economy in MPG, despite buying it in litres.
21:48:23  <Rubidium> so we'd need an "imperial (UK)" and "imperial (US)"
21:48:27  <Rubidium> yay...
21:48:56  <Rubidium> which is too much work for me to do now
21:49:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> Rubidium: maybe then HE can also get the distinction between imperial horsepowers and metric horsepowers? :p
21:49:18  <Rubidium> yeah, he'd need that
21:49:25  <Prof_Frink> A metric horse has 5 legs.
21:49:26  <GhostlyDeath> US tons and UK tons
21:49:41  <GhostlyDeath> no, forget tht
21:49:43  <GhostlyDeath> that*
21:49:45  <Rubidium> yes, imperial (uk) would use metric tonnes there
21:49:48  <Prof_Frink> Tons is tons. Tonnes are metric and short tons are silly.
21:54:17  <GhostlyDeath> heh, the smallest town just outgrew it's slightly larger neighbor
21:54:37  <GhostlyDeath> it was 100 vs 60, now it's 99 vs 163
21:54:55  <GhostlyDeath> Can town be vaporized with populations reduced to zero?
21:55:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes
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21:59:22  <GhostlyDeath> Can more towns and industries pop up out of nowhere?
22:00:04  <Prof_Frink> No and yes.
22:05:41  <planetmaker> even yes & yes, if MP and 'proper' settings
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22:27:00  <KouDy> a bit digging on the forum and found this thread
22:27:10  <KouDy> any idea what graphic is used there?
22:29:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> can you be more specific?
22:31:14  <davis> ttrs
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22:36:06  <GhostlyDeath> The only reason the small towns still exist
22:36:16  <GhostlyDeath> One has a football field, the other has soccer
22:38:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's the same thing
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22:48:43  <Katje> the ai's seem to produce some rather quaint works of comedy
22:51:52  *** KouDy [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
22:51:54  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, half the posts in the comedy thread are misbehaving AIs :p
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22:58:33  <insulfrog> finally, got my junction done :)
22:59:12  <insulfrog> i got room now to add more trains to my network :p
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23:08:58  <insulfrog> Right, that's my game done for today, when I post some screens, I will do if I have time, time for bed now, night all :)
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23:24:23  <TruePikachu> Okay, I made the modification to sshd_config
23:24:41  <TruePikachu> Doesn't look like I'm having much luck...
23:25:13  <TruePikachu> Okay, so I'm SSHing there, with PuTTY configured for X tunneling
23:25:21  <TruePikachu> What do I set DISPLAY to?
23:27:09  <TruePikachu> If I set it to this computer (Windows), "<WinIP>:0", I get, from xterm:
23:27:43  <TruePikachu> No protocol specified \ Can't open display
23:28:06  <TruePikachu> localhost fails as well
23:29:53  <TruePikachu> However, localhost has a protocol
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23:35:22  <TruePikachu> Uhh...doing a "ps faux" returns partial branch off of "xdm" of "/usr/bin/X :0 -nolisten ..." << -nolisten???
23:35:44  <TruePikachu> That may be my problem; know how to fix?
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23:51:32  <TruePikachu> Okay, PuTTY is indeed getting forwarding correctly
23:52:01  <TruePikachu> DISPLAY = localhost:11.0 (from perspective of Linux box)
23:52:21  <TruePikachu> Lol, typed in xterm and it worked
23:53:53  <TruePikachu> Okay, I got X over why won't OpenTTD transfer?
23:55:55  <TruePikachu> Yes, OTTD is failing miserably
23:57:44  <davis> nice conversation you're having there
23:57:50  <TruePikachu> :P
23:58:17  <TruePikachu> Well, just tried 'starting' kde here on Windows, and all I get is a cursor
23:58:42  <TruePikachu> Wait, I have partial taskbar; what the heck is the problem?!
23:59:00  <davis> yeah that's the huge problems in life :P
23:59:14  <TruePikachu> Lol, thought this would be faster, as the box wouldn't have to deal with all these display commands itself. I was wrong
23:59:37  * TruePikachu is logging into KDE at the moment; taking forever

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