Config
Log for #openttd on 4th October 2010:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:31  <GhostlyDeath> Are there such things as dedicated servers?
00:00:47  <GhostlyDeath> Or would they be OpenTTD clients launching a game and doing completely nothing?
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00:02:29  <Ammler> both
00:02:50  <Ammler> you can use your client also as server
00:02:56  <GhostlyDeath> I was thinking of telling my (unused) VPS
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00:03:02  <GhostlyDeath> Would have to be console only however
00:03:07  <Ammler> but the constant online servers are mostly dedicated servers
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00:03:30  <Ammler> yes, openttd is able to run without X
00:03:53  <GhostlyDeath> What if it crashes? Can it resume from a asve?
00:04:02  <GhostlyDeath> or if the server dies for some reason
00:04:29  <Ammler> autosaves like you have locally
00:04:56  <Ammler> the server is complete client just without drawing
00:05:32  <GhostlyDeath> How much memory does it use?
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00:07:20  <Ammler> around 20MB
00:07:28  <Ammler> but it needs much cpu power
00:07:49  <GhostlyDeath> How much?
00:07:51  <Ammler> so it does well suit vps
00:08:05  <Ammler> as usually those services use a lot memory but no cpu
00:08:27  <GhostlyDeath> 400MHz?
00:08:28  <Ammler> GhostlyDeath: as said, it is like a client
00:08:41  <Ammler> it needs the same what you need locally to play
00:08:45  <GhostlyDeath> I hope you guys use sleep()/usleep()
00:09:11  <GhostlyDeath> however it doesn't cache graphics and such to waste memory
00:09:14  <GhostlyDeath> right?
00:09:24  <Ammler> he, you win a big prize if you are able to optimize openttd :-P
00:09:25  <GhostlyDeath> and doesn't need a screen buffer or anything
00:09:44  <GhostlyDeath> Don't joke, I might actually try it
00:10:36  <GhostlyDeath> My VPS is memory starved with only 128MB
00:10:40  <Ammler> prize=big amount of honor
00:11:11  <GhostlyDeath> And is honor +o or +v?
00:11:27  <Ammler> that something else :-P
00:11:28  <GhostlyDeath> Or commit access
00:12:00  <Ammler> yeah, if you can make it faster, Rubidium will give you the lead ;-)
00:13:32  <SmatZ> @seen DJ_Nekkid
00:13:32  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: DJ_Nekkid was last seen in #openttd 18 weeks, 2 days, 8 hours, 28 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <DJ_Nekkid> ty mate
00:13:37  <SmatZ> @seen DJNekkid
00:13:37  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: DJNekkid was last seen in #openttd 4 weeks, 0 days, 5 hours, 34 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: <DJNekkid> i.e. the 2cc set does :D
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00:22:20  <SmatZ> @seen Ammler
00:22:20  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Ammler was last seen in #openttd 10 minutes and 19 seconds ago: <Ammler> yeah, if you can make it faster, Rubidium will give you the lead ;-)
00:22:22  <SmatZ> hello Ammler
00:26:07  <GhostlyDeath> How much badnwidth does openttd use?
00:26:36  <Ammler> Saletti SmatZetty
00:26:57  <Ammler> 1.3kb/s per client afaik
00:27:27  <Ammler> and the map download once
00:28:25  <GhostlyDeath> Is compression used?
00:28:57  <Ammler> I guess so
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01:06:26  <Chris_Booth> @seen anyone
01:06:26  <DorpsGek> Chris_Booth: I have not seen anyone.
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04:01:44  <TruePikachu> Hmmm...I've been thinking...
04:02:12  <TruePikachu> You know how my system is pretty slow?
04:02:25  <TruePikachu> (and therefore OpenTTD)
04:02:48  <TruePikachu> You would think that it would preform better without KDE running in the BG
04:03:29  <TruePikachu> To me, it seems that OPenTTD 1.0.4 might be preforming better when started from KDE rather than started by the command:
04:04:08  <TruePikachu> X & DISPLAY=localhost:0 ; export DISPLAY ; /usr/share/games/openttd/openttd
04:04:58  <TruePikachu> (That starts up X11 without a window manager, sets up the enviorment vars to tell apps where the X11 server is, and starts up OpenTTD, for you guys who don't know what this does)
04:05:57  <TruePikachu> To the devs: Is there code in place which would make OTTD preform better when running from a window manager rather than straight from X11?
04:06:18  <TruePikachu> Something like caching or utilizing some functions from the manager?
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04:14:54  <TruePika> :( Resume= parameter still empty
04:15:04  * TruePika HATES setting up hibernation
04:17:45  <TruePika> And OTTD is uncontrollably slow when not started from KDE
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06:46:30  <dihedral> <GhostlyDeath> [04 Oct 2010 - 02:11:11] My VPS is memory starved with only 128MB <- that's not a vps that's a joke
07:19:54  <Terkhen> good morning
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09:22:26  <Knall> hi there
09:23:28  <Knall> anyone online who is willing to help me understand some part of the openttd makefile? :)
09:23:49  <Rubidium> depends on the part
09:24:16  <dihedral> Knall, just ask?
09:24:41  <Knall> i only wanted to know what the 2 exclamation marks in the Makefile.src.in means - where are these variables defined?
09:25:23  <Rubidium> they mean nothing; it's just a convenient way to make them easily replaceable by a regular expression
09:25:31  <Knall> :)
09:25:38  <Knall> thanks
09:26:04  <Rubidium> they shouldn't be in the makefiles without the .in extension
09:26:33  <dihedral> lol - my irc client thinks Makefile.src.in is a url :-P
09:26:47  <Rubidium> dihedral: ofcourse it is
09:27:04  <dihedral> one it can open with firefox
09:27:20  <dihedral> as in, src.in behing a host name
09:27:27  <dihedral> domain name :-P
09:27:34  * dihedral hopes it's not
09:27:35  <Rubidium> http://makefile.src.in/ <- that pretty much gives me a 200
09:29:15  <dihedral> oh snap - that's so sad :-P
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09:34:16  <fonsinchen> hmm, 403 here ...
09:37:46  <Knall> hmm vi thinks config.lib is written in cobol :P
09:39:39  * Rubidium thinks vi is written in cobol
09:39:49  <Rubidium> (or at least the first versions)
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09:52:17  <Knall> is there any easy way to add the -g g++ option for debugging in the makefile? (there is no DEBUG make target, isn't there?)
09:52:50  <Rubidium> -gg++?
09:53:14  <Knall> the -g option for the g++ compiler for including the debug symbols
09:53:22  <Noldo> ./configure --debug ?
09:53:23  <Rubidium> I know -g and -ggdb, but -gg++ I nor my manpage of g++ knows it
09:53:39  <Knall> ahh.. thanks :)
09:53:40  <Rubidium> ./configure --enable-debug=1
09:54:00  <Noldo> Rubidium is generaly more reliable
09:54:11  <Noldo> anyway all the flag things are in the configure script
09:54:17  <Knall> thats what i was searching for, thanks
09:55:38  <Rubidium> try ./configure --help as well. Might be interesting what that says
09:57:51  <Knall> thank you very much, sorry for bothering with silly questions :)
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10:36:30  <Knall> bye
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11:50:12  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Finally turning our OO-in-C code into reall OO code? :-)
11:50:30  <TrueBrain> yup :)
11:50:32  <TrueBrain> about bloody time :p
11:51:03  <blathijs> hehe
11:51:08  <TrueBrain> the good old times
11:51:13  <TrueBrain> where everything had to be in C
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13:11:56  <Belugas> hello
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13:34:00  <avdg> is it normal that I get a desync when an ai failed to compile, while no ai is used?
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13:34:53  * avdg is confused
13:34:56  <Ammler> maybe you have enabled ais and it tries to start one
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13:35:55  <avdg> the server allowed ai players, but I didn't start one
13:36:43  <avdg> I always get a 32 send error and/or 54 recv error
13:37:12  <avdg> I bet its nothing usefull
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13:38:42  <dihedral> define 32 send error and/or 54 recv error
13:38:55  <dihedral> i.e. show the error message ;-)
13:39:00  <dihedral> hello Belugas
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13:39:07  <dihedral> well - that helps!
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13:40:03  <dihedral> <dihedral> define 32 send error and/or 54 recv error
13:40:03  <dihedral> <dihedral> i.e. show the error message ;-)
13:40:05  <dihedral> avdg, ^
13:40:16  <avdg> I try to reproduce it
13:40:27  <avdg> with some debug levels on
13:40:53  <dihedral> the use of the word 'always' actually made me think you knew how to reproduce it ;-)
13:41:07  <avdg> not really
13:41:19  <avdg> but it works when I try to create a company
13:41:55  <dihedral> i am more interested in the errors :-P
13:42:04  <avdg> well, you get it
13:42:43  <dihedral> :-D
13:43:01  <glx> 32 and 54 are not desync, but OS errors
13:43:09  <glx> usuallay
13:43:29  <avdg> -_- seems I can't find my screenshots
13:44:36  <avdg> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8529206/Schermafbeelding%202010-10-04%20om%2015.44.17.png
13:44:40  <avdg> maybe not very usefull
13:44:48  <avdg> but I don't know how to get more information
13:45:10  <glx> AI are started because you lost connection
13:47:30  <avdg> bleh, net gives me too much information
13:47:48  <Rubidium> 32 = broken pipe, 54 = exchange full (at least under Linux)
13:48:27  <dihedral> that looks like OS X
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13:48:41  <glx> on windows errors are 100XX IIRC
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13:51:04  <glx> with a connection as stable as yours it's not surprising you have problems in multiplayer :)
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13:52:20  <dihedral> glx: LOL :-)
13:52:39  <dihedral> avdg, you are on OS X right?
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13:52:42  <dihedral> hmmpf
13:52:46  <glx> too late :)
13:53:15  <dihedral> cases where network 'modulation' is misunderstood
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13:53:32  <dihedral> SIT
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13:53:37  <avdg> I think I should blame that server or my isp
13:53:43  <glx> isp
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13:56:04  <dihedral> it's always the others, ey?
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13:56:06  <dihedral> lol
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13:56:41  <dihedral> you playing hide 'n seek with us?
13:56:52  <dihedral> tag, your it!
13:57:11  <avdg> nope, I don't want to play that game
13:57:48  <dihedral> my phones connection is better than that :-P
13:58:09  <avdg> my 56k connection is more stable :p
13:59:31  <avdg> ok, seems I don't get my 56k connection this month
14:00:14  <avdg> enough bandwidth
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14:12:24  <dihedral> congratulations avdg, you were in this channel for more than 15 mins
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14:12:27  <dihedral> oh
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14:13:47  <avdg> maybe is my disconnect related to the network problems @openttd
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14:15:29  * avdg gives up
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14:25:13  <dihedral> avdg> maybe is my disconnect related to the network problems @openttd <- could be yes
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14:36:37  <dihedral> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=906480#p906480 <- oh dear lord ^^
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14:43:12  <Rubidium> I don't see a lordmwa or lord aro there
14:48:55  <ccfreak2k> lordaac
14:53:09  <dihedral> i was kinda shocked to find unique_id to have disappear from the ClientInfo
14:56:10  <dihedral> Rubidium, reagarding the network spec - could it be an idea to add a keyboard shortcut to 'private chat to server'?
14:56:38  <dihedral> something along the lines of ctrl+shift+return
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16:29:41  <Rubidium> dihedral: that has nothing to do with the network spec
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16:29:51  <Rubidium> but feel free to file a feature request
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17:55:13  <GT> Do we really need a Catalanian version of the wiki?
17:55:33  <Chris_Booth> if we have a catalan user yes
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18:00:10  <andythenorth_> evening
18:00:26  <Ammler> GT: there is also a language OpenTTD :-)
18:00:28  <Carci> Cat--what?
18:00:43  <Carci> I've never even HEARD of that language before >.>
18:00:59  <Ammler> Carci: second language in spain
18:01:16  <Ammler> or first, not sure about the order :-)
18:01:21  <Ammler> Terkhen: might know
18:02:10  <Carci> I thought Spanish was the primary language in Spain?
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18:03:00  <Ammler> Carci: that statement might be similar to "German is primary language in Swiss"
18:03:43  <Ammler> which is at least here a lie, if you ask the French part of Swiss :-)
18:04:41  <Carci> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_language - informative. :O
18:05:21  <Carci> Sounds like it might be somewhat like French/English in Canada -- only Catalan is slightly more limited in where it's spoken widely within Spain, compared to where French is spoken in Canada.
18:07:25  <Ammler> hmm, thought there is only one state in canada using French
18:08:41  <Carci> That's still wider than Catalan is in Spain. :P
18:08:49  <Carci> I think...
18:09:09  <Carci> Numbers say about 9 million Catalan speakers in Spain, compared to about 48 million Spanish speakers.
18:09:25  <Carci> If wikipedia is accurate at all :p
18:09:33  <Ammler> 20%
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18:11:01  <GT> well, I don't really mind, but it might get messy, when every langauge and variant is added
18:11:10  <andythenorth_> I work with a catalan speaker
18:11:16  <andythenorth_> 1 of about 30 people
18:11:23  <andythenorth_> is that a statistical sample? :P
18:11:25  <Carci> Is there an Esperanto version of the wiki? :o
18:11:26  <Belugas> does it get messy when you want to choose the language of OpenTTD?
18:12:49  <GT> no, but there I dont have to check info in different languages, which will happen, articles will start to deviate in different languages
18:13:55  <GT> OTOH, it might help some users, not everybody speaks English
18:14:05  <Rubidium> GT: there's no point in going against the wish to create an incorrectly out-of-date translation of wiki pages
18:14:18  <Carci> Heh. As long as the English pages are up to date and fine...
18:14:25  <Carci> Then there's no harm there...
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18:14:36  <Carci> And only benefit in at least having SOME form of pages in another language.
18:14:37  <Carci> Right?
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18:21:37  <Rubidium> for every one you "deny" there'll be like two others wanting to translate
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18:26:31  <Fixed> hello, what to do if i have over 100 autos that are too old but no updates are available, can i rebuy new some automatical way?
18:26:40  <Belugas> i would have loved to find OpenTTD wiki's in french, way back then
18:26:42  <planetmaker> hello
18:26:59  <Chris_Booth> hi planetmaker
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18:28:39  <avdg> funny is that there is no dutch version of the wiki
18:28:51  <avdg> or at least nothing I've seen so far
18:29:13  <Rubidium> oi planetmaker
18:29:59  <planetmaker> surprisingly nice and smooth train travel :-)
18:32:24  <planetmaker> how nice... suggesting a re-write of the PF...
18:33:37  <Xaroth> avdg: luckily most dutch people know sufficient english.
18:33:55  <avdg> true
18:34:37  <avdg> except maybe the youngest players
18:34:53  <Xaroth> they should spend more time learning english anyhow
18:34:59  <Xaroth> good place to start, reading an english wiki.
18:35:11  <avdg> hehe
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18:36:32  <Xaroth> and while they are at it, some healthy respect for other languages goes a long way in online games :)
18:36:59  * Xaroth gets reaaaally pissed off at ignorant dutch kids who refuse to take the effort to talk english in an english community/game
18:37:13  <davis> knokken! ;D
18:37:17  <Belugas> hi hi planetmaker :)
18:37:40  * avdg reminds the "pls pls pls" voice of some childs
18:39:24  <Belugas> or the wide opened chick peek
18:39:27  <Belugas> peek?
18:39:30  <Belugas> mmh...
18:39:40  <Xaroth> beak :P
18:40:42  <Belugas> right..
18:42:05  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
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19:04:46  <Knall> hi
19:05:39  <Belugas> hi Knall
19:05:58  <planetmaker> ho
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19:14:30  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20895 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use an enum to identify the rows of buttons in the industryview.
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19:23:24  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20896 /trunk/src/ (industry.h industry_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Split recompution of productionrates for non-smooth economy to separate function.
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19:35:13  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20897 /trunk/src/ (cheat_gui.cpp industry_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Store the result of IsProductionAlterable() in a member variable of IndustryViewWindow.
19:45:06  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20898 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Change: When entering a production rate, round to nearest possible rate instead towards zero.
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20:01:30  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20899 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Switch order of if-tests in IndustryViewWindow::OnClick().
20:03:08  <Belugas> let's go frosch123 let's go!  Dunno where you're heading, but i'm sure it will be cool
20:03:17  <Rubidium> I know where he's heading
20:03:47  <frosch123> and it's not cool? :p
20:03:51  <Belugas> heading to bed in a few moments :)
20:03:52  <Rubidium> to bed and beyond! :) Possibly after the next commit(s) though
20:04:04  <Belugas> hehehe
20:04:19  <frosch123> your fault, did not notice the clock
20:04:39  <frosch123> anyway, tomorrow starts with a meeting, so ...
20:05:31  <Belugas> meeting bleeding
20:05:42  <frosch123> Belugas: you missed albert on saturday :)
20:06:00  <Belugas> quite i did
20:06:10  <frosch123> like 30 commits in row or so :)
20:06:24  <Belugas> oh..no., that i saw
20:06:30  <Belugas> but... after the fact :)
20:06:34  <Belugas> yeah, i was impressed
20:06:43  <Belugas> although the description was so boring..
20:07:03  <Rubidium> boring's good (for easter eggs)
20:08:14  <Belugas> saturday, i was doing some home improving
20:08:15  <Belugas> again
20:08:27  <Belugas> andso for the next month
20:08:39  <frosch123> yeah, like "-Codechange: Convert foo into method." ... "-Codechange: Convert bar into method." ... "-Codechange: Port to java."
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20:10:05  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20900 /trunk/src/ (industry.h industry_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Move ProductionLevels enum to industry.h
20:10:11  <Belugas> yeah, that part :)
20:10:33  <Belugas> these parts, in fact...
20:12:23  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20901 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Fix/Change: When using non-smooth or newgrf-economy changing production rates does not work (anymore), so allow changing the production multiplier instead.
20:12:44  * frosch123 awaits Eddi|zuHause's diff
20:13:15  * Rubidium awaits whoever was going to make a patch in a sec yesterday
20:13:26  <Rubidium> +'s diff
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20:20:23  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r20902 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp:
20:20:23  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#4032]: Make IsProductionAlterable() work for most NewGRF industries.
20:20:23  <CIA-2> OpenTTD:  The NewGRF either has to use properties 12/13, or it needs to set property 0B to 'primary industry'.
20:20:23  <CIA-2> OpenTTD:  So it will not work for bank-like industries which use pure production-callback production.
20:21:53  <Belugas> haaaaa
20:22:05  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
20:23:09  *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:23:12  <andythenorth_> :D
20:23:22  <andythenorth_> fixes a few FIRS complaints :)
20:24:21  <Terkhen> hello
20:24:52  <frosch123> let's hope they do not turn into OTTD complaints, that individual production rates are no longer alterable :p
20:27:11  * andythenorth_ can't test due to conflicts with alberth's patch :(
20:27:22  <andythenorth_> I guess that's what hg revert is for :)
20:27:48  <planetmaker> andythenorth_: you only have one openttd copy? ;-)
20:28:14  <frosch123> it conflicts with alberth's patch?
20:28:27  <frosch123> surprises me actually :)
20:28:31  <andythenorth_> apparently
20:30:17  <frosch123> ah, i inserted some code above some code he removed
20:30:49  <frosch123> so, no real conflict, just automatic merging fails
20:31:18  <frosch123> try applying the diff after the update
20:31:22  <frosch123> might work better
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20:45:54  <andythenorth_> this beer is not cold :o
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21:02:53  <Belugas> going home and going to sleep
21:02:56  <Belugas> night all
21:03:02  <Rubidium> nighty night Belugas
21:03:29  <Belugas> you too wide awaken Rubidium :)
21:03:48  <Rubidium> ENOPARSE
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21:37:40  <TruePikachu> I designed an ultimate station; I will be back to share it when I'm back from school :)
21:40:14  <frosch123> eh, what?
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21:40:48  <frosch123> playing ottd under the bedspread whole night? :p
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21:46:12  <Terkhen> good night
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21:47:05  <Rubidium> Terkhen: that's a good idea; good night y'all
21:47:20  * frosch123 joins the trend
21:47:26  <frosch123> night
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21:57:51  <TrueBrain> I refuse to be a follower
21:57:53  <TrueBrain> but I have to get sleep
21:57:57  <TrueBrain> what to do
21:57:59  <TrueBrain> what to do ...
21:59:32  <Ammler> hmm, tv?
21:59:50  <Ammler> usually it needs areound 10mins tv and it sleeps
22:00:19  <Ammler> specially if it is a channel with ads
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22:21:34  <GhostlyDeath> Who dictates money, the client or server?
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22:21:50  <GhostlyDeath> Would the client know if the server gave it unlimited amounts of cash?
22:25:10  <SmatZ> server can't simply give a client money
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22:25:38  <SmatZ> the amount of money is stored in the savegame that is downloaded when client connects
22:25:56  <SmatZ> different amount of money on different clients => desync
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23:17:13  <TruePikachu> Hmmm...how quickly do you think a 24 tile long train will fill with goods from a factory being supplied with 6 tile long steel trains, 12 tile long grain trains, and 18 tile long livestock trains?
23:17:36  <TruePikachu> The factory station I designed uses those specifications
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23:22:23  <TruePikachu> It is quite a monster station...
23:24:22  <TruePikachu> Will feed off of an L_R mainline, both ways, feeds into a 2->4 load balancer, to waypoints, then to Progman's presignal structures (the logic improvers), to the platforms; each platform type has a unified exit, which feeds into a 4->2 balancer, which can go either way on the mainline.
23:25:27  <TruePikachu> With minimum turn length of 3, dimensions are 30x33
23:26:11  <TruePikachu> That is with 2 6-tile platforms, 2 12-tile, 2 18-tile, and 4 24-tile
23:26:22  * TruePikachu is diagramming it up into GIMP
23:28:38  <TruePikachu> Flipping the orientation of one of the balancers might be able to allow all platforms to be the same size; this junction almost takes a minimum of space right now (minimum will reduce each platform length by 2 tiles)
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23:43:55  <TruePikachu> Hmmm...any way to get KDE's current display ID?
23:44:10  <TruePikachu> * Screen ID, as in localhost:a.b
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