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*** davis [~b@p5B2894A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:15:21 *** davis [~b@p5B2894A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:16:39 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-196-141-185.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:20:38 *** avdg [~avdg@94-227-100-192.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:25:33 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: more listen, more understand, more know] 02:27:36 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 02:27:39 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 02:38:45 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-165-160-247.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 03:00:22 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:02:06 <TruePikachu> Hmmm...why must train 31 be so stupid? 03:02:55 <TruePikachu> It's a 24 tile long goods train trying to get into a 4 tile long PAX station 03:03:17 <TruePikachu> I have waypoints set up in addition... 03:03:30 <TruePikachu> But it keeps turning the wrong way 03:10:28 <TruePikachu> I've checked everything! 03:10:45 <TruePikachu> There should be absolutly NO PROBLEM!!! 03:26:30 <TruePikachu> :P selected the wrong waypoint 03:44:01 *** llugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8dee2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 03:44:08 <TruePikachu> :( I hate how much this (not the uber) station jams 03:45:07 <TruePikachu> This station so close and jams so hard that even the Uberstation feels pain (at least the Uber will fix it's jams automatically) 03:49:44 <TruePikachu> Stupid station jammed AGAIN!!! 03:50:14 <TruePikachu> It is actually funny how much it jams compared to how simple it is; it is so simple that it shouldn't jam 03:50:31 <TruePikachu> Yet it jams due to dedicated platforms 03:51:12 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c74b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:07:02 *** llugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8dee2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:13:03 *** trebuchet [~Trebuchet@69.51.104.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:13:39 *** davis [~b@p5B2894A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:45:02 *** davis [~b@p5B2894A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:56:00 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B746C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:02:45 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B752B2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:29:51 *** davis [~b@p5B2894A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:37:50 *** fanioz [~fanioz@180.214.233.11] has joined #openttd 05:41:37 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:02:59 <__ln__> buenas mañanas 06:03:32 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.224] has quit [Quit: In democracy it's your vote that counts; In feudalism it's your count that votes. - Mogens Jallberg] 06:04:29 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:06:15 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 06:07:12 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm120.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 06:09:18 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe83de00-38.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 06:23:10 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 06:25:28 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e06e325.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:34:53 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has joined #openttd 06:36:25 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 06:52:51 <dihedral> morning 06:53:55 <dihedral> TruePikachu, there is a penalty for too short trains 06:54:11 <dihedral> and 24 vs 4 is quite a substantial difference 06:54:57 <dihedral> and while i am at it: "might eventually have a patch." does not make a feature request a patch ticket in bugs 06:55:22 <dihedral> next to that, openttd is not performance calculator 06:56:41 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:57:40 <dihedral> <dihedral> TruePikachu, there is a penalty for too short trains <- s/trains/stations/ 07:01:21 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:01:49 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:13:51 <Terkhen> good morning 07:22:44 *** TomyLobo [~foo@port-212-202-171-176.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 07:23:45 <dihedral> morning Terkhen 07:28:13 <planetmaker> good morning 07:31:21 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has joined #openttd 07:34:20 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1CECD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:42:42 *** X-2 [~X-2@a83-163-133-37.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:49:35 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:49:41 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:51:43 *** andythenorth_ [~andy@host81-157-87-106.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 07:51:46 <andythenorth_> morning 07:52:01 <andythenorth_> what does "Flat area around industries" do in advanced settings? 07:52:06 <andythenorth_> (not in ottd wiki) 07:53:37 <planetmaker> andythenorth_: it's your pony ;-) 07:53:54 <planetmaker> and moin 07:54:51 <planetmaker> don't tell us you forgot about it already ;-) 07:54:54 <andythenorth_> I've tested what I thought it did. 07:55:13 <planetmaker> it doesn't do that?! 07:55:20 <andythenorth_> no 07:55:36 <planetmaker> hm... ;-) 07:55:41 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 07:55:43 * andythenorth_ reads code 07:59:32 <planetmaker> indeed it does not what I thought it does 07:59:38 <andythenorth_> I can't find where that setting is having an effect 07:59:54 <andythenorth_> I assumed it was a variable in CheckIfCanLevelIndustryPlatform 08:01:21 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:05:44 *** X-2 [~X-2@a83-163-133-37.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:10:38 <planetmaker> src/industry_cmd.cpp: uint size_x = max_x + 2 + 2 * _settings_game.construction.industry_platform; 08:10:40 <planetmaker> src/industry_cmd.cpp: uint size_y = max_y + 2 + 2 * _settings_game.construction.industry_platform; 08:12:08 <andythenorth_> so this setting checks for flat land n tiles around an industry 08:14:22 *** X-2 [~X-2@a83-163-133-37.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:14:40 <planetmaker> well... sometimes 08:16:16 <andythenorth_> doesn't apply if industry can build on slopes 08:16:17 <andythenorth_> ? 08:16:23 <planetmaker> seems like 08:16:26 <andythenorth_> what if industry can be terraformed under? 08:17:58 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:18:11 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db18ef0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 08:18:41 *** Biolunar is now known as Guest2006 08:22:29 *** Guest2006 [mahdi@blfd-4db18ef0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 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12:52:43 *** Lurimax [~quassel@ti0028a380-dhcp1175.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 12:54:54 *** SpComb^ [terom@zerg.fixme.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:54:56 *** SpComb^ [terom@zerg.fixme.fi] has joined #openttd 12:55:16 *** Mks [~mks@c83-176-234-98.cust.tele2.se] has quit [] 12:57:17 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 13:02:18 *** SpBot [spbot@skrblz.fixme.fi] has joined #openttd 13:03:55 <norbert79> love netsplits 13:05:56 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 13:05:56 *** X-2 [~X-2@a83-163-133-37.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 13:05:56 *** Joni- [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-fe00dc00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:05:56 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.194.137] has joined #openttd 13:05:56 *** SmatZ [~SmatZ@vs185047.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 13:05:56 *** Osai [~Osai@vs185047.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 13:05:56 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089077244008.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 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joined #openttd 13:05:56 *** bartavelle [~bartavell@bigbox.banquise.net] has joined #openttd 13:05:56 *** ServerMode/#openttd [+o peter1138] by solenoid.oftc.net 13:06:04 *** mode/#openttd [+v peter1138] by ChanServ 13:06:39 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 13:06:39 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [] 13:07:14 *** andythenorth_ [~andy@host81-157-87-106.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 13:09:04 <Belugas> hello 13:09:23 <Rubidium> goood moaning! 13:09:26 *** rellig [~rellig@vs1191017.vserver.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:09:45 *** rellig [~rellig@vs1191017.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 13:09:51 <planetmaker> moin :-) 13:11:16 <Belugas> meuuuuuuuh!!! 13:16:50 *** rellig [~rellig@vs1191017.vserver.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:17:56 *** rellig [~rellig@vs1191017.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 13:18:56 *** rellig [~rellig@vs1191017.vserver.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:03 *** 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the connection] 14:02:26 *** andythenorth__ [~andy@host217-44-164-188.range217-44.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth__] 14:05:31 <planetmaker> http://pastebin.com/vkKb6CxS <-- am I missing a place, or is this sufficient, if I like to store the version of used newgrfs in savegames? 14:07:57 <Rubidium> IIRC the zero-ing isn't even needed 14:08:38 <planetmaker> hm, probably true :-) 14:12:00 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-213-49-110-6.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 14:14:34 *** skfin [~skfin@109.204.144.216] has joined #openttd 14:15:11 <skfin> Hi, I'm packaging openttd, what should I add as author 14:15:36 <planetmaker> The people mentioned in the credits? 14:16:40 <skfin> Ok, but what for copyright? Is it same as mentioned at openttd.org, "OpenTTD Team" 14:16:53 <glx> what kind of packaging ? 14:17:35 <skfin> glx: Debian/ubuntu 14:17:49 <skfin> Lastest stable for my ppa 14:18:24 <peter1138> Just use the existing Debian package info? 14:18:31 <Rubidium> what's wrong with the .debs on our download page? 14:18:39 <norbert79> Yeah, wanted to ask it as well 14:18:43 <norbert79> different arch? 14:18:58 <skfin> You dont have package archive for them 14:19:08 <skfin> They dont update automatically to lastest ones 14:19:11 <Rubidium> norbert79: yeah, we don't compile s390 binaries 14:19:27 <norbert79> Rubidium: Or to ARM :) 14:19:32 <glx> but all the "scripts" are in the tar IIRC 14:19:47 <peter1138> Debian has OpenTTD 1.0.4... 14:19:49 <Rubidium> true, just ln -s os/debian debian 14:20:02 <norbert79> skfin: You're right on the update side 14:20:06 <Rubidium> Ubuntu has 1.0.4 as well 14:20:20 <peter1138> So both these OSes already have the current stable. 14:20:21 <norbert79> yet apt-get update won't bring it up unless it's in a repo 14:20:29 <norbert79> Rubidium: Does it? 14:20:47 <Rubidium> norbert79: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openttd/1.0.4-1 14:21:12 <skfin> Rubidium: It's coming for Maverick 14:21:22 <norbert79> indeed 14:21:24 <skfin> But its half year until next version 14:21:25 <Rubidium> even then, there're 2 PPAs for 1.0.4 14:21:42 <norbert79> Rubidium: ...which are? :) 14:21:45 <peter1138> Either way, the packaging information is there already. You can just build it and plonk it onto your PPA. 14:22:10 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9CB2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 14:22:40 <norbert79> Rubidium: If the addon bot on this channel would contain the repo information for some distriobutions, that would be a great help 14:22:53 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-183-251.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:23:57 <Rubidium> norbert79: repo information such as: just do apt-get install openttd (no need to add a special repository) 14:24:36 <norbert79> Rubidium: No, repo information like which PPA source... plain apt-get install openttd will give you openttd 1.0.0 in lucid from multiverse 14:24:41 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-188-129.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 14:24:44 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 14:25:27 <Rubidium> we don't support those PPAs 14:25:28 <norbert79> Rubidium: At least in Ubuntu... Debian has even older versions of OpenTTD available in stable 14:25:49 <peter1138> An old release of an OS has an old version available. Shocking! 14:26:16 <norbert79> peter1138: Lucid is LTS, and just 6 months old... Windows XP is 2001... Which ojne is older? 14:26:24 <norbert79> Rubidium: You could still list them as Unoffical, partner supported links, for example 14:26:39 <peter1138> Windows Updates never provided any version of OpenTTD. 14:26:40 <Rubidium> Windows 95 is older 14:26:47 <norbert79> peter1138: Or take Windows 95.. And it still older 14:26:49 <norbert79> dang :) 14:26:59 <Rubidium> oh... and DOS is even older :) 14:27:18 <norbert79> Rubidium: You don't support DOS though :) peter1138: Windows has no packaging system neither 14:27:51 <norbert79> it's kinda narrow-minded though, in my opinion, some links to outside sources marking "Unspoorted" would not hurt anyone... But whatever 14:28:01 <norbert79> "Unsupported" 14:28:29 <norbert79> and launchpad does not compute atm 14:28:50 <peter1138> I'm not really sure what you're talking about. 14:29:14 <peter1138> All the packaging information is there for this guy to build current OpenTTD and provide a PPA. 14:29:30 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:29:32 <Rubidium> there are even two flavours of packaging 14:30:00 *** Yexo [~Yexo@153-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:30:31 <norbert79> peter1138: No, I mean like this page: http://www.openttd.org/en/download-stable - Adding one more line into selection with: outside sources, or unsupported or whatever... That would be a great help for those, who cannot use any binary of pre-packaged options, like for MacOS 14:30:36 *** Yexo [~Yexo@153-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 14:31:14 <norbert79> peter1138: Just an idea, no offense, I just think that would help lot of users 14:31:22 <peter1138> Then you have to keep an eye on it forever more... the maintainer might stop, or may make malicious modifications, or whatever... 14:32:09 <Rubidium> yeah, show me one reliable Mac OS X packager 14:32:09 <norbert79> peter1138: Why not letting the maintainers let those links being updated, and remove those where you cannot see any updates for 6 months, for e.g. 14:32:20 <peter1138> We could just make a proper repo... 14:32:39 <norbert79> peter1138: Also an option, right 14:33:46 <norbert79> peter1138: And if it works well, then you could move to more repository solutions, and make an official for every each 14:34:01 <norbert79> but that's something for long term 14:34:46 <norbert79> Yet I prefer having OpenTTD in one directory, like back in old DOS times :) 14:34:56 <norbert79> one directory, everything in one place 14:35:21 <Rubidium> with or without subdirectories? 14:35:29 <norbert79> nah, data/scenarios/etc exists 14:35:45 <norbert79> just without having it seperate from $HOME 14:35:58 <Rubidium> that's can be easily done 14:36:04 <norbert79> Yeah, this is how I use it 14:36:05 <Rubidium> s/'s// 14:36:31 <norbert79> and I have the game on a pendrive too, with all available binaries so I can play from everywhere :D 14:39:12 <norbert79> http://pastebin.com/tUpihwEk - directory structure, just FYI 14:39:32 <Rubidium> where's the s390 one? 14:40:03 <norbert79> Don't have it, is there somewhere I could download it from? 14:40:18 <Rubidium> debian's repository 14:40:38 <norbert79> Right 14:41:35 <norbert79> Pity, that I don't have any access to a real zSystem, I only use them through 3270 emulation :( 14:43:36 <norbert79> Added 14:45:13 <glx> <norbert79> Rubidium: You don't support DOS though :) peter1138: Windows has no packaging system neither <-- maybe there will be one, one day (www.coapp.org) 14:45:55 <norbert79> glx: Let me check that, if yes, that would be just perfect :) 14:46:51 <glx> but it's far from finish :) 14:46:59 <norbert79> glx: So it's aptitude/yum like kinda approach as I assume... Nice, nice... I guess it will come with GUI too 14:47:05 <norbert79> yeah, kinda guessed :)) 14:48:38 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice1n2.emea.ibm.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:49:24 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice1n2.emea.ibm.com] has joined #openttd 14:51:27 <norbert79> glx: Yet I guess that would also require of some software's repcakaging, yet Installshield supports updating functions, it would be still necessary being able updating installed programs right 14:51:34 <norbert79> like Pidgin can be updated with ease 14:51:59 *** Dagda [~Dagda@AToulouse-256-1-92-247.w86-210.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 14:52:10 <Dagda> Hi ! 14:52:52 <Dagda> I have a problem of knowedge surely ... but i cant upgrade rails -> electric rails 14:53:37 <Dagda> erreur "rails are not suitable" or something like that 14:54:33 <planetmaker> then you need to convert not a railtype to itself. Or something like that 14:54:42 <Dagda> My electric central is working (i think) 14:54:47 <planetmaker> i.e. first select electric rails 14:54:50 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 14:55:36 <Dagda> where ? i saw "conversion" button only 14:56:29 <glx> conversion button is "convert to current type" current being the toolbar type 14:56:31 <planetmaker> try to click and hold the rail toolbar button 14:56:45 <planetmaker> then select the railtype you want 14:57:37 <Dagda> no submenu when i hold the "upgrade rails" button 14:57:43 <norbert79> No, before doing that 14:57:45 <planetmaker> not upgrade rails 14:57:49 <planetmaker> rail selection 14:57:57 <planetmaker> which opens that toolbar 14:58:04 <Dagda> ho ! 14:58:05 <norbert79> (Hold down LMB for more railtypes) 14:58:07 <Dagda> ok, i try 14:58:23 <norbert79> same goes for many menus, almost every each of them 14:58:43 <norbert79> one menu button will bring up more submenus when having LMB pressed and hold down 14:59:24 <Dagda> this is working :) 14:59:30 <Dagda> you rae fabulous :) 14:59:37 <Dagda> are* 14:59:41 <Dagda> thx a lot ! 14:59:59 <norbert79> you're welcome 15:10:53 <planetmaker> welcome 15:17:31 *** andythenorth_ [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:17:46 *** waldtroll [~goblin@krlh-5f72c989.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:21:58 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:37:43 *** enr1x [~kiike@230.227.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:40:29 <norbert79> bye everyone 15:40:30 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice1n2.emea.ibm.com] has left #openttd [] 15:45:07 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 15:46:40 *** Brianetta is now known as Brianetta-moving 15:47:27 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:47:57 *** Brianetta-moving [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 15:51:17 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 15:52:19 <andythenorth_> Belugas: this isn't you is it? http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=46926 15:53:06 <Belugas> i wish :) 15:53:27 <Belugas> plus, i only have one boy ;) 15:53:46 *** Dagda [~Dagda@AToulouse-256-1-92-247.w86-210.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 15:53:50 <andythenorth_> one is enough for me right now :P 15:54:54 <planetmaker> assuming we allow newgrfs to define a minimum version which they're compatible to and newgrf_show_old_versions=off - should it only show the latest version, even if there are incompatible, older ones? 15:56:35 <planetmaker> (I'd prefer the answer 'yes' ;-) ) 15:56:52 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:57:05 <Belugas> let me try to even digest the question :S 15:57:31 <Belugas> ho... speaking of digesting... 15:59:53 <planetmaker> Belugas: background is such: currently, if a newgrf is not backward compatible, one has to define a new grfID. But as we have versions now, it makes sense to actually mark incompatibility with earlier versions by a new piece of information: the minimum version of itself the newgrf is compatible to. 16:00:48 <planetmaker> Now, current trunk only shows the newest version of a newgrf, if versions are set. But current trunk also assumes that a grf with the same grfID is always compatible... 16:00:56 <Rubidium> planetmaker: I still wouldn't show it 16:01:07 <planetmaker> good. Done :-) 16:02:24 <planetmaker> also makes the patch smaller :-) 16:03:48 <Belugas> hhaaaa.... 16:04:58 <Belugas> problem not showing why it's not compatible is that the user won't be able to correct. but on the other hand, the said user would never be able to figure it out why 16:05:01 <Belugas> i'd say... 16:07:19 *** fanioz [~fanioz@180.214.232.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:07:26 <planetmaker> Belugas: there's still the option "newgrf_show_old_versions" 16:07:29 <Belugas> andythenorth_, note that i would not buy those copy sets 16:07:30 <planetmaker> Set that and you have all 16:07:36 <Belugas> ok :) 16:07:45 <andythenorth_> Belugas: me neither :) 16:07:48 <planetmaker> but it's cfg / console only :-) 16:07:59 <andythenorth_> dunno if it's loyalty, or concerns about quality :o 16:08:08 * andythenorth_ is writing a scary migration script 16:08:19 <planetmaker> migration script? 16:08:23 <andythenorth_> 4 years worth of timesheet data, all stored in python objections 16:08:35 <Belugas> planetmaker : thus, the user needs tobe a bit brainy (read not a chemist, but a rocker scientist ;) 16:08:39 <andythenorth_> if I get this wrong I (a) screw all our data (b) lockup a production webserver in a boring way 16:08:45 <Belugas> andythenorth_ : quality 16:08:52 * Belugas rest his case and open hi guitar case 16:08:54 <andythenorth_> there are of course no unit tests in this app of mine :P 16:09:19 <planetmaker> Belugas: he must not be a noob ;-) 16:09:33 <planetmaker> noobs only play with new NewGRFs when they create new games ;-) 16:10:18 * andythenorth_ wonders if BROS could convert bitch-slapping effort into pixels 16:10:22 <andythenorth_> would be quite productive 16:10:32 <planetmaker> andythenorth_: write a conversion script :-P 16:10:55 <andythenorth_> make it a feature in nml 16:11:01 <andythenorth_> they might get something done that way 16:11:26 <planetmaker> I proposed them to use NML (all needed is there) and I offered to get them going 16:11:31 <planetmaker> welshdragon declined 16:12:17 <andythenorth_> I know :) 16:12:29 <planetmaker> Instead he posts 'news' in the DevZone about the forums of that set. I wonder how useful that 'news' is... 16:13:08 <andythenorth_> planetmaker: do you see any connection here with why German manufacturing industry is insanely effective, whilst British equivalent is in ongoing decline? 16:13:25 <planetmaker> :-D 16:13:47 <planetmaker> I tend to not connect personal contacts to macro-economic facts 16:13:58 <planetmaker> or sometims even 'facts' 16:14:23 <planetmaker> they usually don't make for good prejudice ;-) 16:15:02 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 16:15:02 *** davis [~b@p5B28AAE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:15:52 <andythenorth_> ach 16:16:10 <andythenorth_> I guess I see a lot of British traits in how the BROS set is being done 16:16:28 <andythenorth_> it's remarkably ineffective result for something that has had so much work on it 16:16:32 <andythenorth_> anyways 16:16:39 <andythenorth_> this data won't migrate on its own :o 16:16:47 <andythenorth_> at, least, not until I press go :) 16:21:48 <planetmaker> :-) 16:26:17 <planetmaker> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3012 <-- patches from patch queue for a14 support for min_version 16:26:56 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f681e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:27:07 <planetmaker> quak :-) 16:27:36 <planetmaker> frosch123: I'd like to ask for a pony :-) 16:27:43 <planetmaker> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3012 <-- patches from patch queue for a14 support for min_version 16:27:55 <frosch123> talk about pressure :p 16:28:01 <planetmaker> :-D 16:28:02 <frosch123> moint though :) 16:28:15 <planetmaker> I provide food and stables :-) 16:29:03 <planetmaker> actually... I brought a pony... I just need the 'branding' ;-) 16:29:24 <planetmaker> (sounds strange, but my dictionary tells me...) 16:38:07 <planetmaker> but... sorry :-) I don't mean to put pressure on you. Just you're one of newgrf specialists ;-) Bad timing on my part though :-P 16:39:35 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 16:39:59 <andythenorth_> planetmaker: put your ponies in a queue behind my ponies 16:40:01 <andythenorth_> and no biting! 16:40:05 <frosch123> it could be worse, other guys seem to need a "patch announcement" category on fs 16:40:20 <planetmaker> andythenorth_: I grew this pony ;-) 16:40:40 <planetmaker> and it's about to become mature ;-) 16:40:58 <frosch123> there is no developer "claudia", so what do you need a grown horse for? 16:41:01 <planetmaker> actually... also a pony for you ;-) 16:41:10 <planetmaker> (you=andy) 16:41:14 <planetmaker> hehe @ frosch123 16:41:59 <planetmaker> that's the true-hatschie-guy, right? 16:43:27 <frosch123> yip 16:50:09 <frosch123> when loading a game with a compatible grf and then saving it again. does it keep the old version, or does it update the version? 16:50:17 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.165.157] has joined #openttd 16:50:45 <Rubidium> I'd say, the new one 16:51:15 <frosch123> also think so, as it updates the md5sum as well 16:51:16 <Rubidium> primarily because forward compatability isn't quite guaranteed 16:52:02 <planetmaker> it should use the new one 16:52:18 <frosch123> hmm, right, was happens if there are only older versions of the grf 16:52:25 <planetmaker> grf not found 16:52:33 <andythenorth_> planetmaker: if you're starting a pony farm....http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4131 16:52:35 <andythenorth_> :D 16:52:38 <Rubidium> and the game wouldn't be loadable 16:52:39 <frosch123> [18:52] <planetmaker> it should use the new one <- are you sure that the patch does that? 16:52:43 <planetmaker> yes 16:52:55 <planetmaker> frosch123: I'm not really sure about that 16:53:22 <frosch123> i would expect some change in IsGoodGRFConfigList 16:55:00 <planetmaker> there is 16:55:03 *** GecK [Geck@pro75-3-82-229-184-63.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 16:55:07 <GecK> evening 16:55:16 <planetmaker> line 452 16:55:26 <planetmaker> basically the change is in FindGRFConfig 16:55:41 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.194.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:55:46 <planetmaker> which checks also already for the compatibility 16:55:59 <frosch123> yeah, but what about the stuff at line 487 16:56:07 <frosch123> c->version = f->version; <- around that line 16:56:22 <planetmaker> yes? 16:56:44 <planetmaker> that basically copies the data from the found grf to the currently used one 16:56:48 <planetmaker> for compatible ones 16:56:53 <planetmaker> but incompatible ones never go there 16:57:38 <planetmaker> and as I have the version of the (now) used grf, it will be saved. Do I err there? 16:58:22 <frosch123> hmm, i am not sure 16:58:32 <frosch123> you do not copy min_loadable_version there 16:58:37 <frosch123> so what is displayed in the gui? 16:58:41 *** Lurimax [~quassel@ti0028a380-dhcp0952.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 16:58:46 <frosch123> the old one? and is that intentional? 16:58:59 <planetmaker> Hm... I don't copy the min_loadable_version. Possibly I should copy that there... 16:59:08 *** rellig [~rellig@vs1191017.vserver.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59:16 <planetmaker> Probably the old one. let's check 16:59:29 <frosch123> well, what is more useful in the gui? 16:59:37 <planetmaker> the current one 16:59:57 <planetmaker> well. the current min_loadable_version. But usually that's not needed at all... 17:00:07 <frosch123> you also see that stuff before loading the game in the preview 17:00:22 <planetmaker> yes :-) 17:01:48 <planetmaker> it definitely makes sense to copy everything :-) 17:02:35 <planetmaker> though... the savegame actually will then not load with the min_loadable_version but only with version henceforth 17:03:21 <planetmaker> But then: it's a newgrf property. Not a savegame one 17:04:11 *** rellig [~rellig@vs1191017.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 17:05:43 *** fjb is now known as Guest2039 17:05:44 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFF316.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:10:44 *** Lurimax [~quassel@ti0028a380-dhcp0952.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:12:14 *** Guest2039 [~frank@p5DDFE629.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:14:54 *** Biolunar_ [mahdi@blfd-4db18ef0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 17:15:38 <planetmaker> ok, line added (locally). The current newgrf version is definitely saved in the savegame, so an older one than currently used will not be accepted 17:16:58 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db18ef0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:17:05 <planetmaker> uploaded 17:17:33 *** Biolunar is now known as Guest2042 17:17:37 <planetmaker> do you need test grfs? 17:20:19 <planetmaker> ok... what question. Added, too 17:21:49 <frosch123> hmm, what to eat next.. 17:22:55 <planetmaker> Pumpkin soup? 17:23:02 <Rubidium> something tasty? 17:23:14 <Terkhen> food! 17:25:34 <planetmaker> hm... my previous scenario developer patch is now completely independent of this a14 thing :-) 17:35:43 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.18.112] has joined #openttd 17:37:21 *** Guest2042 is now known as Biolunar 17:37:46 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 17:42:28 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 17:44:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20905 /trunk/src/lang/ (hungarian.txt slovenian.txt): 17:44:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:44:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: hungarian - 2 changes by IPG 17:44:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: slovenian - 2 changes by ntadej 17:44:54 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:46:45 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:49:19 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:53:53 *** Chris[A] is now known as Pikel 17:55:35 *** skfin [~skfin@109.204.144.216] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:35 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba84e3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:05:36 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:16:14 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 18:29:09 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-213-49-110-6.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:33:48 <frosch123> does it need a stupidity test for min_version <= version? 18:34:24 * andythenorth_ runs a migration script and hopes for best :P 18:35:01 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@ip-86-49-60-58.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 18:39:27 <planetmaker> uhm... where, frosch123 ? 18:39:42 <frosch123> somewhere where the author notices it :p 18:39:52 <frosch123> e.g. make the grf unavailable or so 18:40:08 <planetmaker> oh 18:40:11 <planetmaker> no. 18:40:18 <planetmaker> it will always match if md5sum matches 18:40:38 <frosch123> yes, but won't it cause some havoc later on? 18:40:44 <planetmaker> Though I didn't test that, that's *I think* what will happen 18:41:01 <frosch123> yes, you test firsr for md5sum, then for version :) 18:41:14 <planetmaker> by design ;-) 18:41:24 <frosch123> though maybe nforenum should learn to check such stuff 18:41:39 <planetmaker> well, still OpenTTD needs to check it, too 18:42:08 <planetmaker> let's see, should not be difficult to add. Just forcing min_loadable_version to be <= version 18:43:56 <planetmaker> hm... 'easy' 18:45:45 <planetmaker> is there somewhere a routine for grf sanity check after it has been read? 18:46:11 <planetmaker> static void InitNewGRFFile(const GRFConfig *config, int sprite_offset) ? 18:46:17 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 18:47:00 <frosch123> there is a check for duplicate grfs, and i would also expect .html files to fail to get added to the list :p 18:48:34 <planetmaker> :-D 18:48:42 *** APTX_ [~APTX@chello089077244008.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 18:50:13 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089077244008.chello.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:51:04 <planetmaker> I think the best place to rectify that is when the files are read 18:52:15 <planetmaker> maybe in bool GRFFileScanner::AddFile(const char *filename, size_t basepath_length) ? 18:53:04 *** trebuchet [~Trebuchet@69.51.104.87] has joined #openttd 18:54:01 *** Fixed [~Fixed@91.202.128.79] has joined #openttd 18:55:28 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:55:49 <planetmaker> it might be easy to add at the MINV itself. But then I don't know whether a version will be defined later. 18:58:06 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 18:58:41 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba84e3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:59:00 <planetmaker> hm... or better in GetGRFConfig? 19:01:12 <frosch123> + if (c->version < minversion) continue; <- as someone pointed out, shouldn't that be "if (c->version < minversion || c->min_loadable_version > minversion)" 19:01:36 <frosch123> i.e. you do not pass "min.required version" to "FindGRFConfig", but "requested version" 19:02:03 <planetmaker> http://pastebin.com/vXL2NjQM 19:02:20 <frosch123> "c->version < minversion" only denies downgrades 19:03:01 <V453000> original acceleration still is as default in a clear new config file? 19:03:21 * Rubidium blames Eddi 19:04:15 <planetmaker> frosch123: but if I require a certain version, I only want to make sure that the current newgrf can provide the required version 19:04:27 <planetmaker> and min_loadable_version <= version 19:04:47 <frosch123> well, yes, but currently you are not using min_loadable_version at all :p 19:04:50 <planetmaker> otherwise min_loadable_version would double as a kind of 2nd version 19:05:13 <frosch123> you only display it in the gui 19:05:36 <planetmaker> I use it when loading savegames 19:05:48 <planetmaker> when determining compatibility. 19:06:06 <planetmaker> if I have min_loadable_version=20. And the game was played with 19, I don't load 19:06:46 <frosch123> where? grepping shows no usage 19:07:16 <frosch123> you compare only the version of the available grfs with the version stored in the save 19:07:33 <frosch123> you want to compare the version from the save with both the version and min_version from the available ones 19:08:19 <Rubidium> a14.min_loadable_version <= valid versions for the NewGRF <= a14.version 19:08:27 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 19:09:46 <planetmaker> hm, yes 19:11:08 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFF316.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:11:33 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:12:23 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.18.112] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:14:01 <Rubidium> oh, was it said that the default min_loadable_version should equal version? 19:14:15 <planetmaker> not directly 19:14:34 <planetmaker> Personally I'd argue for, if not set, set to 0 19:14:38 <planetmaker> Though... 19:14:52 <Rubidium> no, that makes NewGRF developers ignore the setting 19:15:06 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFF316.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:15:21 <Rubidium> if you set the version, then you care and should set the min_loadable_version as well 19:15:29 <planetmaker> frosch123: you're right, it must be if (c->min_loadable_version < minversion) continue; 19:15:44 <planetmaker> no 19:15:49 <frosch123> > :) 19:15:59 <frosch123> and you should not call it "minversion" 19:16:14 <Rubidium> IMO it's better to fail during development/testing than when it's actually being used 19:16:24 <planetmaker> requireversion, frosch123 ? 19:16:30 <planetmaker> Rubidium: convinced :-) 19:16:32 <Rubidium> current_version? 19:16:40 <frosch123> something like that, but with some "_" between parts 19:16:47 <frosch123> desired_version or so 19:16:57 <planetmaker> desired is nice 19:17:24 <frosch123> and while you change that diff, also change // -> /* */ :) 19:17:37 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:17:56 <planetmaker> yes, I just noticed that I left the comments. Shall I leave them (in the changed form)? 19:18:07 <frosch123> comments are fine 19:18:11 <planetmaker> ok 19:18:27 <Rubidium> and desired_version == c->version is the "holy grail", i.e. it's better than the highest version version that can load it (at least for compatible NewGRFs) 19:18:49 <Rubidium> (except when desired_version == 0) 19:18:53 <planetmaker> well. Holy grail is md5sum ;-) 19:19:07 <Rubidium> yeah, but that's already passed when you're starting to check versions 19:19:21 <trebuchet> sha512 19:19:36 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba84e3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:21:01 <frosch123> sultan64 19:21:17 <Rubidium> double rot13 19:21:25 <planetmaker> :-D 19:21:35 <Rubidium> oh... no, some licenses don't allow doing that 19:22:57 <planetmaker> hm... that requires me to check for whether the thing was set or not. Thus the simple, if not set=0 (as for a14, version) does not work 19:23:24 <planetmaker> or I cannot allow explicitly setting min_loadable_version=0 19:23:30 <planetmaker> which is bollocks 19:23:49 <Rubidium> just "require" VRSN is set before MINV in the documentation 19:24:06 <planetmaker> lol :-) 19:24:06 <frosch123> or default min_version to UINT32_MAX 19:24:10 <Rubidium> then VRSN sets min_version to $VRSN and MINV overrides it 19:24:44 <frosch123> sounds better than my suggestion 19:24:52 <planetmaker> ok, that's it. Easy :-) 19:25:07 <planetmaker> Any way in OpenTTD to enforce, or ensure it? 19:25:13 <planetmaker> Or just assuming that? 19:25:23 <frosch123> hmm, did somewhen read the pillar topic completely? why does he distinguish the bridge types? 19:25:32 <Rubidium> fail for MINV if $VRSN == 0? 19:25:45 <planetmaker> hu, Rubidium ? 19:26:03 <frosch123> planetmaker: "fail if MINV is set befor VRSN" 19:26:26 <planetmaker> oh, you mean... no version=0, then I should issue an error if MINV is set? 19:26:31 <planetmaker> well... yes. why nto 19:26:33 <planetmaker> *not 19:27:04 <frosch123> same if MINV > VRSN 19:27:09 <planetmaker> frosch123: bridge pillars: I think he didn't quite understand how they were drawn, where the sprites came from. Maybe he did now, but I'm not quite sure 19:27:25 <planetmaker> yes. So all that check in the MINV check in a14. Quite fine and easy :-) 19:30:34 *** sparr [~sparr@c-24-98-253-213.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 19:33:24 *** blathijs [matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:53 *** Skiddles [~notme@cm120.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: brb my house is on fire] 19:34:22 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe83de00-38.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 19:38:26 *** blathijs [matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has joined #openttd 19:39:09 <frosch123> @base 10 16 2506 19:39:09 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 9CA 19:40:20 * andythenorth_ ponders 19:40:26 <andythenorth_> what work to do 19:41:08 <Rubidium> changing diapers? 19:44:41 <andythenorth_> ach 19:44:43 <andythenorth_> too true 19:45:25 <Belugas> :) 19:46:43 *** sparr [~sparr@c-24-98-253-213.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: 4340, sources date: 20100125, built on: 2010-05-20 14:18:13 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:47:04 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-31-50.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:51:28 <frosch123> hmm, let's see whether 0.5 compiles 19:52:03 <frosch123> it does, and how fast ... 19:53:20 <planetmaker> :-D 19:53:30 <planetmaker> why the heck do you need 0.5? 19:53:50 <andythenorth_> maybe it's FIRS 0.5 :P 19:53:53 <frosch123> i want to know how bridgepillars looked pre r4430 19:54:01 <andythenorth_> maybe frosch123 finished FIRS while I wasn't looking? 19:54:02 <planetmaker> oh :-) 19:55:03 <frosch123> can 19:55:29 <frosch123> "can't build bridge here... level land or water required under bridge" :o 19:56:01 <frosch123> nvm, just my fault 19:56:05 <planetmaker> dang. compiled wrong stuff. Used qpop instead of qpush :-P 19:57:16 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1CECD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:14 <frosch123> hmm, did i pick the wrong revision... 20:02:29 <planetmaker> what's the suggested grf debug level for complaining about wrong MINV or MINV before VRSN? 0? 20:05:39 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 20:07:15 <frosch123> last occurence of SPR_PILLARS_BASE was removed in r8129, though the commit message does not suggest that 20:07:28 <frosch123> maybe it was already not used at that point 20:08:19 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1CECD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:10:41 <frosch123> ok, 0.4 draw pillars slightly different 20:12:18 *** jpx [jpx_@a91-156-239-44.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 20:12:48 <frosch123> so, seems like there is a lot of unsed sprites in openttd.grf since r4430 resp 0.5 :o 20:14:13 <planetmaker> :-O 20:14:21 <planetmaker> in extra there are no pillars used 20:14:28 <frosch123> looks like the pillar length is actually more correct in 0.4 20:14:33 <planetmaker> only default ones 20:15:01 <frosch123> so i guess ottd did some "better" solution back then, which was later trashed for newgrf compatibility 20:15:12 <frosch123> @commit 4430 20:15:13 <DorpsGek> frosch123: Commit by Darkvater :: r4430 /trunk (table/bridge_land.h tunnelbridge_cmd.c) (2006-04-15 16:07:00 UTC) 20:15:14 <DorpsGek> frosch123: - NewGRF: Use the bridge's sprite layout for drawing high pillars. This fixes newgrf's high-bridge pillars drawing. Also remove the now obsolete _bridge_poles_table which was already integrated into the bridge sprite tables 20:15:32 <planetmaker> hm 20:16:25 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.18.112] has joined #openttd 20:16:43 <Fixed> !help 20:16:43 *** Fixed was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.] 20:17:36 <planetmaker> he 20:18:06 <frosch123> that actually explains why ottd distinguished in such a weird way between drawing pillars for high bridges and low bridges 20:18:18 <frosch123> they used completely different sprites in 0.4 :o 20:18:31 <planetmaker> ah 20:18:34 <frosch123> yay for vcs :) 20:18:42 <planetmaker> :-) indeed 20:22:20 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 20:22:40 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db18ef0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 20:23:26 <dihedral> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4155 <- wtf? 20:23:43 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 20:24:05 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/pillars04.png http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/pillars05.png 20:25:15 <dihedral> interesting 20:27:06 <frosch123> but yes, now i remember that i somewhen wondered about bridges having less pillars when higher 20:27:53 <planetmaker> quite so 20:28:10 *** scott1429 [~scott1429@02783832.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 20:28:28 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:28:55 <frosch123> oh, and the bridges have a pillar at the south and none at the north 20:29:54 <planetmaker> hehe 20:30:19 <scott1429> hi can i get new buses for locomotion 20:30:48 <planetmaker> also... a14 MINV queue updated 20:31:03 <planetmaker> scott1429: ask in a locomotion channel. This is OpenTTD 20:36:14 <planetmaker> dihedral: I'm quite sure that it's a valid bug report 20:36:50 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:36:55 <andythenorth_> good night 20:37:00 <planetmaker> g'night andythenorth_ 20:39:38 *** andythenorth_ [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth_] 20:43:08 <dihedral> planetmaker, it does look rather odd - i just could not imagine a silly report coming from that person either :-P 20:43:35 <dihedral> however - why, if it's a valid bug report, make it from a not so valid situation 20:44:04 <dihedral> or, is the bug only noticeable with his additions, and why would it then be a bug 20:44:28 <dihedral> and i totally do not get what he is on about :-D 20:44:56 <planetmaker> he just made desasters like a common thing happening constantly. For testing purposes 20:45:18 <planetmaker> heightlevels was what he tested 20:45:37 <planetmaker> see that thread and you understand where he comes from :-) 20:46:12 <dihedral> it's just not mentioned in his bug report 20:48:30 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:33 <frosch123> if (best == NULL || c->version > best->version) best = c; <- lacks the "matching version is best" case 20:48:53 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC3CD6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 20:50:59 <planetmaker> It doesn't need to. Because the best one is the one with the highest version 20:51:29 <frosch123> i thought we said, the bestone is the one with the same version? 20:51:31 <planetmaker> Only point would be to stop the recursion 20:51:49 <planetmaker> frosch123: yes. 20:52:18 <frosch123> ? 20:52:50 <planetmaker> If we look for desired_version. and skip all where version > desired_version... 20:53:12 <planetmaker> ...we're left with taking the current version, if ithe existing best is lower 20:53:25 <planetmaker> thus current can at most (and best) be desired_version 20:53:55 <frosch123> so you need to revert the test in that line 20:54:11 <frosch123> pick the lowest version which passes the c->version < desired_version test 20:54:28 <frosch123> unless desired_version is 0 20:55:22 <frosch123> oh "(set 0 0 if not relevant" fails at the min_loadable_version > desired_version 20:55:51 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has joined #openttd 20:56:55 <planetmaker> I somehow still don't follow you. Seems I'm slow 20:57:40 <planetmaker> we have current best->version with best->min_loadable_version and look for desired_version 20:58:21 <frosch123> if desired_version is 0, we do not want to test min_loadable_version at all, and just pick the highest version 20:58:40 <frosch123> if desired_version is not 0, we wand to pick the lowest version which passes the c->version < desired_version || c->min_loadable_version > desired_version test 21:00:18 <frosch123> hmm, though if a save has a grf with no version information, it would pick the newest one 21:00:32 <frosch123> does not sound right either 21:00:49 <planetmaker> desired=0 should not need special treatment 21:00:58 <Rubidium> but only if the md5sum doesn't match, right? 21:01:04 <planetmaker> sure 21:01:18 <planetmaker> md5sum + grfid the same overrules everything 21:01:40 <frosch123> + if (c->version < desired_version || c->min_loadable_version > desired_version) continue; <- in any case: that line contradicts "(set to 0 if not relevant)" 21:03:24 <planetmaker> The default value is 0... 21:03:49 <planetmaker> Actually it's only used when the md5sum is NOT set. 21:03:55 <planetmaker> So only the comment is wrong 21:04:04 <frosch123> const GRFConfig *best = FindGRFConfig(c->ident.grfid, NULL); <- that call from BuildAvailables() in newgrf_gui.cpp needs the return the newest version. loading savegames without version information resp. with grfs without version information should not necessarily pick the highest version 21:04:05 <planetmaker> But it needs a default value in order to compile 21:04:50 <frosch123> planetmaker: but, it seems the default value is wrong, as different behaviours are needed at different places currently using the default 21:06:27 <frosch123> hmm, i guess PrintGrfFilename in gamelog.cpp seems to print the wrong filename in some cases 21:06:36 <frosch123> (sorry off-topic :p ) 21:09:30 <planetmaker> :-) 21:10:46 <planetmaker> hm... desired_version=UINT32_MAX when looking for compatible newgrfs with version=0? 21:11:34 <planetmaker> hm 21:11:37 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9CB2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:15:32 <planetmaker> going through possibilities: 21:15:58 <planetmaker> assuming we have a savegame with desired_version=0. Then we do find the highest version one as best is highest version 21:16:54 <planetmaker> assuming we have a savegame with desired_version=5. Then we skip all version0 ones 21:17:21 <planetmaker> actually 0...4 21:18:12 <frosch123> yeah, the "pick same version" condition is kind of tricky with "no version" 21:18:32 <planetmaker> hm... but then indeed we want the lowest version 21:18:41 <planetmaker> though... do we? 21:18:50 <planetmaker> why not the highest one which loads our game just fine? 21:19:02 <planetmaker> Would make more sense 21:19:14 <frosch123> maybe, not sure :) 21:19:52 <frosch123> i do not know exaclty what ais do, but they changed it several times 21:19:52 <planetmaker> I mean... It's like when I have an old savegame to say that I should better play it with OpenTTD 0.5.3 than current trunk - as 0.5.3 is more similar to what was used back then 21:20:19 <planetmaker> well... highest compatible, if not an exact match, I say 21:20:31 <planetmaker> highest=newest 21:21:05 <planetmaker> otherwise it makes no sense to provide update newgrfs 21:21:11 <planetmaker> which is what this setting shall allow 21:23:08 <frosch123> yeah, looks like ais do the same 21:23:15 <planetmaker> and... if I don't have a mental knot in my mind, it'll always pick the newest one (within the limits of min_loadable_version <= desired_version <= version) 21:23:30 <frosch123> though ais test the version instead of md5sum 21:23:50 <planetmaker> well. yes. But we shouldn't skip md5sum. We must not 21:24:12 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:24:16 <frosch123> so, remains the question whether ottd should pick a grf with the exact same version but different md5sum over a newer version 21:24:45 <planetmaker> I don't think really. 21:25:03 <planetmaker> If it's the same, then md5sums should match 21:25:18 <planetmaker> If they don't match it's fishy and anyway only compatible. Then we can also pick the newer one 21:26:27 <Rubidium> hmm, true :) 21:26:28 <planetmaker> otherwise one could add a if c->version = desired_version return c 21:26:59 <planetmaker> = 21:27:10 <planetmaker> but as said :-) 21:27:43 <frosch123> ok, remains the issue with "just pick the newest, do not test any min version" 21:28:01 <planetmaker> when do you need that, frosch123 ? 21:28:02 <frosch123> that needs some special value for desired_version 21:28:09 <frosch123> planetmaker: for the gui 21:28:10 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.18.112] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:28:21 <frosch123> else it will not show grfs with min_version > 0 21:28:29 <frosch123> that is newgame-gui 21:28:39 <planetmaker> eh. It does? 21:29:00 <frosch123> take a look at BuildAvailables 21:29:22 <frosch123> const GRFConfig *best = FindGRFConfig(c->ident.grfid, NULL); <- that line should get the newest one 21:29:29 <frosch123> not the newest one being able to load version 0 21:30:47 <frosch123> otoh, a savegame using an old grf without version (i.e. version 0) should indeed pick the newest one being able to load version 0 :) 21:30:55 <frosch123> so "0" is no good default value 21:31:17 <frosch123> it needs some special value, either some extra bool parameter, or maybe UINT32_MAX will do 21:31:19 <planetmaker> but... it does show the newest here 21:31:27 <planetmaker> with a min_loadable_version=50 21:32:55 <frosch123> did you maybe enable newgrf_show_old_versions? 21:33:04 <planetmaker> it's disabled 21:34:17 <planetmaker> I've both: the 0-compatible one and the 50-compatible one 21:34:23 <frosch123> or is the newest version being able to load version 0 in face one with version 0? 21:35:01 <planetmaker> face=phase? 21:35:06 <frosch123> fact 21:35:41 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:36:21 <planetmaker> can you rephrase? 21:37:12 <frosch123> http://pastebin.com/ur01GG7y 21:37:30 <frosch123> there is a test at the bottom, when grfs are added to the list 21:37:42 <frosch123> if "best" is not the newest grf, that will fail 21:37:55 <frosch123> and "best" is currently only the newest grf being able to load version 0 21:38:38 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 21:41:12 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 21:41:14 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 21:41:19 <planetmaker> but it reads const GRFConfig *best = FindGRFConfig(c->ident.grfid, NULL, c->version); 21:41:44 <planetmaker> So we find... currently several 21:42:04 <planetmaker> I guess we would find FIRS 0.3 and 0.4 - if it had this feature 21:42:50 <planetmaker> So we use the best one compatible with the current version. 21:42:59 <frosch123> oh, missed that 21:43:10 <frosch123> actually makes sense :) 21:43:23 <planetmaker> :-) 21:43:34 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1CECD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Progman] 21:43:47 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1CECD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:43:55 <planetmaker> I guess it returns anyway more than I initially intended 21:44:27 <planetmaker> if newgrf_show_old_versions = 0 it should only return the newest. 21:45:42 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@ip-86-49-60-58.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:46:04 <frosch123> i guess i would trash the default parameters for FindGRFConfig, and check every occurence for the correct ones 21:46:11 <frosch123> but, now i need some sleep :) 21:46:14 <frosch123> night 21:46:20 <planetmaker> g'night :-) 21:46:22 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f681e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:50 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:47:25 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [] 21:53:30 *** glx_ [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:cd91:31d4:af48:856f] has joined #openttd 21:54:26 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e06e325.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 21:55:12 *** glx is now known as Guest2075 21:55:12 *** glx_ is now known as glx 21:57:35 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:07 *** Guest2075 [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:cd91:31d4:af48:856f] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:01:57 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has quit [Quit: Quit] 22:04:02 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 22:04:28 *** scott1429 [~scott1429@02783832.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:08:36 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 22:12:48 *** Zulm [~Ugnis@78.60.166.204] has joined #openttd 22:13:36 <Zulm> hello is openttd compatible with transport tyccon (not delux ) ? 22:14:16 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@5e0a3fc0.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 22:15:59 <Rubidium> it can load its savegames if that's wat you mean 22:16:03 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e06e325.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:16:03 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 22:17:08 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:21:02 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:24:33 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 22:25:57 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [] 22:27:23 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 22:35:03 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-188-129.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:36:34 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba84e3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:20 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-108-70.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 22:37:23 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 22:37:36 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 22:39:58 *** TomyLobo [~foo@port-212-202-171-176.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 22:42:44 *** Zulm [~Ugnis@78.60.166.204] has quit [] 22:42:53 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 22:55:21 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 23:02:36 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 23:04:54 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 23:05:02 <Chris_Booth> evening alll 23:05:09 <X-2> Evening Chris_Booth 23:05:37 <Chris_Booth> hi X-2 23:05:43 <X-2> Heya 23:16:09 *** GecK [Geck@pro75-3-82-229-184-63.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 23:16:23 *** davis [~b@p5B28AAE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:28:31 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:32:03 *** Dagda [~Dagda@AToulouse-256-1-92-247.w86-210.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 23:32:14 <Dagda> Hi (again) ! 23:32:54 <Dagda> SOmething strange, I cant buy any copters (empty list), they are all old, and no new model ... 23:33:28 <Dagda> I msu wait more (time game), or no more, and i can delete copter buildings ? 23:33:31 <TruePikachu> Defaults? 23:33:31 <Dagda> must* 23:34:02 <TruePikachu> Under the advanced options, enable "vehicles never expire", 23:34:27 <Dagda> Defaults ? I dont know, I downloaded some langage citu name, the soud pack, and some cards/scripts, but i play with "nex gme" 23:34:34 <TruePikachu> and then, in console (`; key to the left of 1/!), type "resetengines" 23:34:57 <TruePikachu> I'm meaning the default vehicles; no vehical NewGRF loaded 23:35:17 <TruePikachu> Either way, the procedure will give you all vehicles which have been availible 23:35:18 <Dagda> Ok for the "tips", but is it normal ? 23:35:28 <TruePikachu> Ye; see the Wiki page for the airports 23:35:43 <TruePikachu> Helicopters become unavailible somewhere between 2030 and 2050 23:35:59 <Dagda> ok, it's normal, in 2045 no copter in the sky ;) 23:36:36 <TruePikachu> Well, after disabling expiration and resetting the pool, you should have them back 23:36:42 <Dagda> thx for the explain ! 23:37:12 <Dagda> no, if it's normal, i will play with this 23:37:18 <Dagda> ;) 23:37:21 <Dagda> thx :) 23:37:42 <Dagda> i note the tips, if my idea change :p 23:38:18 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 23:38:22 <TruePikachu> Also, you _might_ want to look into PikkaBird's Av8tors NewGRF 23:38:57 <TruePikachu> There are some helis that never expire there, and lots of aircraft that can carry all types of cargo (not just the express cargo) 23:39:44 <Dagda> ok, this pack is in my text file, thx again ! 23:39:53 *** waldtroll [~goblin@krlh-5f72c989.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:40:01 <Dagda> many thing to try with this game 23:40:25 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 23:40:37 <Dagda> Ho, do you know another game, like this ... the name is not far "trans simu" 23:41:28 <Dagda> Simutrans 23:41:49 <Dagda> http://www.simutrans.com/ 23:42:01 <Dagda> someone tryed it ? 23:42:50 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.21.227.88] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 23:43:45 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:50:03 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Good Bye] 23:51:44 <Dagda> Nobody ? O_O 23:52:32 <Dagda> some graphics are good, but the full 3D univers is very strange (youtube videos) 23:53:07 <Dagda> there is some packs for upgrading the openttd original V1 game ? 23:53:14 <Dagda> (graphics)