Log for #openttd on 15th October 2010:
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02:24:46  <jmc124> can you not buy out a company when they are the only competitor left?
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06:20:10  <Terkhen> good morning
06:20:38  <Zuu> good morging Terkhen
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06:56:57  <dihedral> good morning
06:59:14  <dihedral> :-D
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07:44:12  <norbert79> Morning
07:45:13  <planetmaker> good morning
07:45:19  <norbert79> Morning planetmaker
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07:45:30  <planetmaker> lol ?
07:46:30  <Alberth> moin
07:46:55  * Alberth leaves in about an hour or so :)
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07:51:57  <norbert79> Eh, accidentally closed this chat off... And I am wodnering why I cannot find it :)
07:52:50  <planetmaker> haha :-)
07:54:41  <planetmaker> but that happend to me already, too :-)
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07:57:12  <dihedral> hail the bouncer :-P
07:58:15  <norbert79> It's so cold out there this morning I wish I was still in bed :(
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08:12:37  <planetmaker> norbert79: was that why you closed the IRC window? Too cold air coming from the outside? :-P
08:13:04  <norbert79> Nah, it's an air-conditioned room, but I still feel a bit cold... Maybe I am just tired
08:18:45  *** Mortomes|Work is now known as Mortomes|TGIF
08:18:56  <norbert79> Mortomes|TGIF: Can't agree more...
08:19:33  <Mortomes|TGIF> norbert79: 6.5 more hours
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08:19:53  <norbert79> Mortomes|TGIF: Indeed, and we are free, freeeee
08:20:17  <ccfreak2k> Today is World Poetry Day.
08:21:13  <norbert79> So what I don't care! (and this ryhmes!)
08:21:32  <dihedral> I say thee aint good enough for Poetry :-P
08:22:16  <ccfreak2k> Then I shall start with some rhymes.
08:22:19  <norbert79> dihedral: I indeed no :)
08:22:19  <ccfreak2k> Surely you'll give it a try.
08:22:34  <ccfreak2k> So using my brain, choosing not to abstain
08:22:41  <dihedral> i though, sitting under a poets tree, eating lots of Cookie dough... hihi
08:22:41  <ccfreak2k> though I can't guarantee on the time!
08:23:25  <dihedral> the time is min, not yours for ... sures :-P
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08:23:53  <dihedral> *mine
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08:27:01  <norbert79> Well Gearbox is serious, they really want to release Duke Nukem Forever... Well, I am curious
08:27:56  <norbert79> Hope they boundle it with a map builder too, like with Duke 3D
08:28:07  <norbert79> :)
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08:35:49  <Mortomes|TGIF>
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08:36:09  <Mortomes|TGIF> All this technical jargon is beyond me
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08:39:00  <norbert79> But it's so well describes it :)
08:41:11  <dihedral> wtf was that link for?
08:41:34  <Rubidium> it's jpg, so why would you even consider opening it?
08:41:44  <planetmaker> haha :-)
08:41:52  <Alberth> in particular, why a jpg while he obviously likes GIFs ?
08:41:54  <Rubidium> either it's totally unrelated or it gives you eye cancer
08:42:18  <norbert79> I will go blind, but then at least I don't need to replace my GFX card every 6 months :D
08:43:33  <norbert79> Here, have a GIF: MagLev kiddo:
08:51:49  <xiong> ( says "The bridges can even be placed so that the starting and ending points differ by height (no more than 1 level)." Is this only true in some circumstances? I fail to build a roadway bridge over some very broken ground, with a difference of one level. The error is, "Bridge heads not at the same level."
08:52:47  <norbert79> ok, one example: river... One side has it's level 1 level lower
08:53:08  <planetmaker> xiong: the slope on the end tile needs to be correct
08:53:12  <norbert79> you start your bridge on the one end, having it the same level, like the ground, buit the bridge ends in a lower side
08:53:12  <planetmaker> no steep slopes
08:53:21  <planetmaker> and not facing the wrong way either
08:54:41  <Alberth> aka, a picture of the situation speaks a thousand words
08:55:22  <norbert79> Alberth: Exactly... Pity, that I cannot start the game atm
08:55:59  <Alberth> except you are not having a problem :)
08:56:26  <norbert79> Like sitting in an open-space office? :)
08:56:53  <norbert79> while your managers sits in a box few meters behind you? :)
08:57:36  <xiong> Okay, I saw the image on that page and the accompanying text: "If the land above the bridge is sloped in some other direction, you will not be able to place a bridge." I assume this is my actual problem. I was misled by the error message.
08:57:38  <Alberth> ok, you have a different problem than not being able to build a bridge :)
08:57:52  <Alberth> norbert79:  ^
08:58:29  <norbert79> Alberth: It would look silly builidng a bridge in the office anyway ;-) Just kidding around, don't worry. I speak english :)
08:58:36  <norbert79> God I sure need my sleep :D
08:58:50  <Alberth> xiong: it is very hard to give an answer without a picture in these cases
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08:59:12  <xiong> I'm not sure what's meant by 'steep' slopes. All slopes have the same pitch.
08:59:30  <Alberth> norbert79: a bridge over the corridor, for "cables" :p
09:00:01  <xiong> That's okay, Alberth; I don't want to make a big deal out of it. I just didn't want to burn up millions of dollars on a prohibited task.
09:00:01  <norbert79> Alberth: Or a bridge for bridges :D
09:00:35  <peter1138> xiong, 'steep' means a tile with opposite corners at +-2 level difference.
09:00:42  <Alberth> a meta-bridge :)
09:01:04  <Alberth> xiong:   tiles 27 and 29 at the right are steep slopes
09:01:27  <peter1138> ... and 23 and 30
09:01:47  <Alberth> :)
09:02:42  <xiong> Fine.
09:04:31  <xiong> Do I have to slope all terrain between the bridgeheads? Or only at the bridgeheads themselves? Since the point of the bridge is to obviate the need for a lot of leveling.
09:07:37  <Alberth> first try only the bridgeheads :)
09:09:26  <xiong> Did that; failed. Succeeded by sloping all intermediate land. It's not flat but none of it is 'steep'.
09:09:58  <xiong> Also, even with that sloping, failed to build the bridge downhill. Succeeded building from the low end to the high end.
09:10:26  <dihedral> can you provide a screenshot of the terrain?
09:10:36  <xiong> An insane waste of cash. By now, I could have built a flat, four-lane freeway across the gap.
09:11:11  <dihedral> no you could not have, because you still do not know where south is, we only defined north
09:11:42  <dihedral> however, congratulations on getting  Zephyris to post back to your thread that they agree to your terms :-P
09:12:22  <xiong> BTW: I have been pioneering my entry into towns with buses and trucks. My theory is that it's possible to provide some sort of adequate service without a lot of expense or disruption; so later, when I want to demolish entire neighborhoods for a rail station or yard, it's not politically impossible.
09:13:16  <xiong> This brings up a number of fine points. (1) Do road vehicles ever crash? I have not seen it yet and I have a great deal of traffic on some roads.
09:14:04  <norbert79> xiong: With disasters turned on buses are normally hit by UFO's
09:14:19  <dihedral> RV's are pretty much safe of crashing into eachother, however, they can crash with trains and ufos for example
09:14:19  <norbert79> God this sounded creepy already, wirth the word of 'normally'
09:15:35  <dihedral> i am not quite sure about that
09:15:46  <dihedral> i have seen ufos hit more rail tracks than busses to be honest
09:16:08  <Alberth> ufos like tracks for breakfast
09:16:20  <xiong> (2) It's hard to get good coverage with a bus station so, typically, I throw a ro-ro downtown and the 'real' station on the outskirts, making them both parts of the same logical station. I'm starting to extend this approach to freight, with a disconnected bus stop near the remote industry and the 'real' truck stop, logically connected, nearer or on the main road. Is this cheating?
09:16:43  <Alberth> depends on your point of view
09:16:51  <dihedral> arg
09:16:55  <dihedral> i hate that question :-P
09:17:03  <dihedral> it's not :-P
09:17:19  <norbert79> I guess this question would like possibly go to a Game-Play FAQ
09:17:21  <xiong> Well, I'm hoping either that someone will be hostile toward it or that everyone will shrug.
09:18:17  <Alberth> as usually, you get a bit of both :)
09:18:17  <dihedral> xiong, as oppinions vary, you will not get everybody to agree to one statement - appart from 'humands need oxygen in order to live'
09:18:31  <dihedral> and ignoring everybody else who does not share your general oppinion is not really the way forward
09:18:53  <xiong> I assume that it is not possible to extend the station spread to 60 tiles, put down a dozen bus stops in a small area, and connect them to disconnected stops near each town. It might work but I wouldn't get paid for the distance between the towns, only between the actual stops visited.
09:19:12  <Alberth> xiong: in single player, it is fine, obviously. In multi-player, they usually have rules about cases like this
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09:19:37  <xiong> I don't want to get into any bad habits.
09:19:44  <dihedral> oh man
09:19:56  <planetmaker> rules are different on every server
09:20:03  <planetmaker> if the station spread allows it, it's fine
09:20:24  <dihedral> in most cases
09:20:26  <xiong> So, correct that I'm paid for distance between stops?
09:20:27  <planetmaker> always make sure you play the game such that YOU have fun. That's why it's a game
09:20:36  <dihedral> Luukland for example does not like using disconnected stations
09:20:55  <dihedral> but then, if you do not like the server, move on to another one
09:20:56  <planetmaker> you're paid for distance between station signs
09:21:04  <Alberth> xiong:   <-- all you might want to know how things work
09:21:10  <planetmaker> which can be quite a difference ;-)
09:21:21  <planetmaker> like one tile travel, 64 tiles payment :-P
09:21:25  <dihedral> 64 tiles + 64 tiles :-P
09:21:29  <planetmaker> nope
09:21:33  <xiong> Hm. Then one might actually run a bizarre road along the lines I described.
09:21:39  <dihedral> so you could get paid for 128 tiles you did not travle :-P
09:21:45  <planetmaker> IIRC the sign is in the middle, isn't it?
09:21:51  <dihedral> nope
09:22:00  <dihedral> the sign is where you place the first square
09:22:02  <planetmaker> then you're right :-) Even worse :-P
09:22:19  <dihedral> and the sign will only move when you delete the relevant square (iirc)
09:22:23  <Alberth> planetmaker: at best of the original station, the sign does not move when extending the station
09:22:38  <xiong> Well, I tell you, I'll be consistent about this from now on. The first stop to go in should be central, I suppose -- or for industry, perhaps on the other side from the cargo destination.
09:23:34  <planetmaker> Alberth: then I mixed it up with cases where tiles were removed, the station walked
09:24:04  <planetmaker> I now wonder when and how it updates when I remove tiles ;-)
09:24:17  <Alberth> xiong: you don't have to choose. You can try both ways, and like one or the other. Just be flexible enough to adjust when other people want it (or don't play with those people :p ).
09:24:31  <Alberth> planetmaker: me too, but not enough to try now :)
09:24:40  <planetmaker> same here :-P
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09:25:50  <bob12345> is there any other sit that i can get the uk bus set for locomotion
09:26:55  <norbert79> bob12345: Good morning to you too!
09:27:12  <bob12345> yes good morninig
09:27:49  <xiong> Is it always sufficient for a single tile to overlap between an entity and the station coverage area? I'm pretty sure it matters that all buildings in a town are covered and most seem single-tile. But what about multi-tile industry? I'm particularly minded of oil wells, which don't really seem single units so much as groups.
09:29:10  <Alberth> station coverage is tricky at best. The simplest solution seems to be to watch the station placement GUI that displays the cargoes before placement.
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09:29:59  <Alberth> the cargoes to a station use different rules that cargoes from a station.
09:30:14  <bob12345> is there a site that i can get uk bus set for loc
09:30:41  <planetmaker> bob12345: this is NOT a locomotion channel
09:31:34  <bob12345> i know that this is the only place i get some respnce
09:31:42  <planetmaker> ...
09:31:52  <planetmaker> there's a locomotion section in the forums, you know
09:32:14  <norbert79> bob12345: Yes, just wanted to mention, you can search also in the forums, thats actually my only resource as well :/
09:32:31  <bob12345> ok
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09:33:42  <dihedral> odd
09:33:55  <planetmaker> odd even?
09:33:57  <dihedral> is this the only active channel at all that people must ask everything in here?
09:35:18  <norbert79> In Soviet Russia you find the dumb ones!
09:36:59  <Alberth> they also had an old actor as president?
09:37:49  <norbert79> If you consider playing it dumb sometimes, probably :))
09:40:29  <planetmaker> hehe, Alberth :-)
09:40:57  <planetmaker> btw, I dug out the old thread concerning groups
09:41:12  <planetmaker> if you don't know it, that posting I linked is worth reading
09:41:16  <xiong> I have bribery ON in AS but I never see that action available in the Local Authority window.
09:41:29  <planetmaker> it's expensive
09:41:46  <planetmaker> you need a few 100.000 money units
09:41:54  <planetmaker> even without inflation
09:41:57  <xiong> "If you can't afford it, you don't have to ask" --?
09:42:04  <planetmaker> yes
09:42:21  <Alberth> planetmaker: thanks, will read it sunday, have to go now
09:42:30  <planetmaker> enjoy :-)
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09:44:18  <xiong> Statues are expensive but legal. I don't see anything in Game Mechanics to explain their effect in detail. How effective are they? Trees are cheap.
09:45:01  <dihedral> look at station rating
09:48:07  * planetmaker wonders wether nowadays a behaviour vice versa could be considered realistic ;-)
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10:06:16  <xiong> Okay. Service stimulates demand for service.
10:07:09  <xiong> This is not only true for town which grow when serviced. It is also true for industry, which demands more service although it does not grow in size.
10:08:09  <xiong> I'm starting to think that the solid base of road services is very good indeed. It's not highly profitable but I can expand and contract it easily.
10:09:01  <xiong> Last night, I spent quite a while building rail out to a steel mill. The moment I got the station built, the steel mill itself disappeared.
10:09:26  <SmatZ> bad luck
10:10:20  <xiong> It took me years to get the M needed to fund another steel mill in that loc. I don't know if that investment could ever be profitable without a map-wide network of ore mines feeding it.
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10:12:15  <xiong> Well, I'm going to guess that the mill disappeared because it wasn't getting any service. Perhaps having an unserviced station accelerated the... decision to fold. A cheap bus service out there might have kept that mill in business until I could get the rail together. Is any of this plausible?
10:12:36  <xiong> s/bus/truck/
10:13:21  <SmatZ> unserviced station is the same as no station
10:13:29  <SmatZ> a supply truck station would help
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10:16:41  <planetmaker> :-) But that's a relatively new OpenTTD behaviour ^
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10:20:58  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20921 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#4160]: Refit costs were not shown for long cargo names.
10:24:34  <SmatZ> planetmaker: really? then I said something wrong :)
10:25:03  <SmatZ> when player is building a connection
10:25:14  <SmatZ> it doesn't matter if he builds the station first or not
10:25:21  <SmatZ> as long as it's not serviced :)
10:26:16  <planetmaker> SmatZ, I think so. Earlier one could gain points for the score table by just spamming the map with lots of 1-tile stations. It was fixed somewhen in the last 18 months or so
10:26:54  <planetmaker> It's an original TTD bug - so there OpenTTD deviates from TTD behaviour
10:27:11  <xiong> Well, so, my current theory is to build the roadway network first, to lock in the towns and industries.
10:27:22  <SmatZ> planetmaker: right, maybe I missed the discussion is about company performance rating :)
10:27:41  <SmatZ> eg. I don't see anyone talking about company performance rating
10:28:06  <SmatZ> oh...
10:28:08  <SmatZ> OK
10:28:09  <SmatZ> :-D
10:28:11  <planetmaker> hm... well... :-)
10:28:19  <SmatZ> it is not the same in all meanings
10:28:21  <SmatZ> like
10:28:23  <SmatZ> when there is a station
10:28:29  <SmatZ> you can't build anything else at those tiles
10:28:32  <SmatZ> :)
10:28:41  <planetmaker> now I'm lost :-)
10:28:50  <SmatZ> [12:14:49] <SmatZ> unserviced station is the same as no station
10:28:53  <xiong> Nearby that: I theorize that it is much harder to get a good rating from a small town. A small town may generate only a dozen pax a year but if I don't get most of them, they find me 'mediocre' or 'poor'. I have big cities with hundreds of unserviced pax waiting but since I'm able to get a greater percentage of them away quickly, I get a 'good' or 'very good' rating.
10:29:10  <xiong> Agree, disagree?
10:29:25  <SmatZ> ^^^ that was realted to the question if an unserviced station could keep the industry from disappearing
10:29:27  <planetmaker> yes. Ok. It matters on the map
10:29:48  <planetmaker> But it doesn't matter for the score. And it might not matter for the local authority (not sure though)
10:29:51  <xiong> SmatZ, Actually, I thought the unserviced station provoked the disappearance.
10:29:56  <planetmaker> ah, ok
10:36:06  <SmatZ> xiong: you should be able to get good rating in a small town easier
10:36:17  <SmatZ> by having two bus stops and two busses going between them
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10:38:00  <xiong> SmatZ, Now, that I do feel is kinda cheating. Unless perhaps you consider that 'local' or 'municipal' service.
10:38:14  <SmatZ> xiong: good services stations (short time since last load/unload) increase town rating, others decrease
10:38:26  <SmatZ> only stations near to city centre count
10:38:33  <SmatZ> (but what is "near" is a question)
10:39:27  <xiong> Well, I always build my station in the center -- as close to that as I can get. If I want my buses and truck to load elsewhere, I connect an outlying stop.
10:39:27  <SmatZ> the responsible code
10:40:05  <xiong> I don't have any towns with more than one station. Perhaps I should consider local service.
10:40:55  <xiong> I do have outlying industries with their own stations. But not two logical stations *in* one town.
10:41:09  <xiong> ... let's see what happens...
10:42:04  <norbert79> I guess OpenTTD has been moved to a scientific level during this discussion :)
10:42:21  <SmatZ> the distance to centre doesn't metter - either it is near enough so it counts, or it isn't so it doesn't count
10:42:26  <SmatZ> it's 1 or 0 :)
10:42:42  <SmatZ> similiar for the time since last vehicle visit
10:43:03  <SmatZ> either it's >20, or <=20 ... units :)
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10:44:21  <planetmaker> :-)
10:44:29  <planetmaker> NewStationRatings :-)
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10:45:22  <SmatZ> :-)
10:45:24  *** andythenorth_ [] has joined #openttd
10:45:29  <andythenorth_> morning
10:45:34  <SmatZ> hello andythenorth_
10:45:36  <planetmaker> moin andythenorth_
10:46:21  <Rubidium> 20*185 ticks, i.e. 20*2.5 days = 50 days
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11:12:54  <xiong> Oh dear. I think I just caught on to shared orders and it isn't what I've been doing. I now have over 80 vehicles. Time to get it straight.
11:14:09  <Eddi|zuHause4> <planetmaker> NewStationRatings :-) <-- i believe that has been part of the newgrf specs for ages, just was not implemented in openttd
11:14:46  *** Eddi|zuHause4 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
11:14:58  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20922 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h window.cpp): -Fix [FS#4071]: accidentally moving the mouse of the scrollbar arrows while pressing it clicks the button next to the arrow
11:16:18  <planetmaker> interesting, Eddi|zuHause ... I guess I didn't stumble over that in the specs so far... or most likely didn't notice it while reading :-P
11:17:47  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: you mean ?
11:18:27  <Rubidium> as that's implemented according to newgrf_callbacks.h
11:19:09  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: maybe that was implemented without me noticing ;)
11:19:15  <planetmaker> :-)
11:19:34  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, what thing in the specs is what mb is pointing at wrt town growth?
11:19:39  <planetmaker> Do you know?
11:19:56  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: a house construction callback, i presume
11:19:57  <Rubidium> @commit 17547
11:19:58  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: Commit by rubidium :: r17547 /trunk/src (newgrf_callbacks.h station_cmd.cpp) (2009-09-15 17:24:18 UTC)
11:19:59  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: -Feature: [NewGRF] Implement callback 145 (custom station rating)
11:20:16  <Rubidium> <- that? :)
11:20:21  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yeah, that was definitely _after_ the last time i checked ;)
11:20:35  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but it's over a year old
11:20:48  <Rubidium> <- but that isn't NewGRF at all
11:20:54  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yeah, i don't check these things weekly :p
11:21:30  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: HE said something about constructing houses when a serviced station is nearby
11:21:30  <peter1138> Nor yearly :D
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11:22:09  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: maybe it's some TTDF thing
11:23:57  <Rubidium> in any case, the thing I linked from the openttd wiki proposed by frosch should allow checking for a serviced station
11:24:17  <planetmaker> music of the future :-)
11:24:36  <Rubidium> of stations associated with the town regardless of distance
11:25:51  <planetmaker> though definitely something nice and want-to-have :-)
11:27:08  <xiong> It might be nice if all vehicles in a group could share orders, either by drag-and-drop or just by default.
11:30:58  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: maybe he meant variable 64 (Cargo acceptance history of nearby stations)
11:30:58  <Eddi|zuHause>
11:31:27  <planetmaker> ah. That'd make sense
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11:37:02  <xiong> Okay, that's a rude awakening. Although I was trucking oil away from the well, and it was rating me 'good', the well disappeared. These wells are hard to get to, and now I have an expensive, worthless investment in roads, vehicles, and stations.
11:37:17  <Eddi|zuHause> 		/* Cargo acceptance history of nearby stations */
11:37:18  <Eddi|zuHause> 		/*case 0x64: not implemented yet */
11:37:31  <xiong> At the very least, I'm going to have to go looking for more oil.
11:37:53  <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: wells disappear around 1980
11:38:29  <Eddi|zuHause> need to switch to oil rigs
11:38:41  <Noldo> really?
11:39:34  <V453000> yes
11:39:36  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, in temperate without industry NewGRFs
11:39:47  <Eddi|zuHause> in arctic they don't close
11:39:56  <V453000> well there arent oil rigs :p
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11:46:34  * norbert79 returned, like a bad habbit
11:46:56  <Eddi|zuHause> is that like a wabbit?
11:47:08  <norbert79> :) Maybe
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11:49:06  <xiong> V453000, Are there never oil rigs?
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11:50:53  <xiong> I have seen none, so far. And I'm down to one set of oil wells.
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11:52:39  <xiong> And oil prospecting, no surprise, is absurdly expensive. Makes replacing a steel mill look like a small crack in the side of the petty cash drawer.
11:57:09  <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: oil rigs (in temperate) need a larger body of water to appear
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11:57:31  <Eddi|zuHause> like 8 tiles in diameter, or so
11:57:46  <Eddi|zuHause> in arctic, there aren't any oil rigs
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12:08:16  <dihedral> can we add a BP Desaster? and turn all water tiles black? :-P
12:09:19  <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: make a plan for NewDisasters :)
12:09:39  <dihedral> ^^
12:09:40  <dihedral> naw
12:09:47  <dihedral> i'll stick to network stuff ^^
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12:15:22  <xiong> (
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12:15:59  <norbert79> xiong: Rush hour :)
12:16:45  <Chris_Booth> @seen ammler
12:16:45  <DorpsGek> Chris_Booth: ammler was last seen in #openttd 6 days, 16 hours, 22 minutes, and 23 seconds ago: <Ammler> Alberth: ask me next month again ;-)
12:17:25  <planetmaker> now... a nice highlight for two people. Without anyone of them finding out why ;-)
12:17:37  <Chris_Booth> lol
12:17:51  <Chris_Booth> and I can hide
12:18:19  <Chris_Booth> planetmaker: only 1 person Ammler isn't in channel
12:18:35  <planetmaker> nor Alberth
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12:18:54  <Chris_Booth> ooh lol
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12:20:11  <xiong> norbert79, I feel as if I may have made a mistake.
12:20:30  <norbert79> xiong: Check the vehicles speed, might be, that some vehicles are faster, than others
12:20:45  <norbert79> you could also try a highway kinda layout
12:20:54  <norbert79> 2 ways in one direction, 2 ways back
12:21:21  <norbert79> xiong:
12:21:42  <norbert79> xiong: Check the last entry
12:23:44  <xiong> norbert79, Well, the buses are faster than the trucks. On open road, they pass, albeit not at a great rate. Oncoming traffic is an issue. Elsewhere, I have a long, double, one-way road -- essentially a freeway -- that works well.
12:24:01  <xiong> Perhaps I might better say 'expressway'.
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12:31:42  <xiong> Yah. I like number 5. Is that pop 31K?
12:37:00  <norbert79> indeed
12:37:48  <norbert79> - This has 66K
12:38:10  <norbert79> this city grew so rapidly, that the coal mine was surrounded by buildings
12:38:25  <xiong> The 4-track cloverleaf, though. I dunno, man. That's either genius or fool, quite likely both.
12:38:56  <norbert79> I did that :D
12:39:22  <xiong> Yah. And tunnels instead of bridges why?
12:39:33  <norbert79> signals
12:39:46  <norbert79> and you can get through the starting point faster
12:39:57  <norbert79> where on a bridge you have to climb one level
12:40:05  <norbert79> besides, it's a bit more realistic that way too
12:40:17  <xiong> Hm.
12:41:01  <xiong> In number 3: How do you get your station platforms not to have roofs? They are quite useless and annoying, IMO.
12:41:32  <norbert79> Station add-on, and this way you can have a fast visual overview of the ammount of goods available
12:41:41  <norbert79> and also makes it muich more european like
12:42:02  <norbert79> besides, it's an industrtial station only
12:42:15  <norbert79> no need for roof, and such
12:42:43  <xiong> So, what NewGRF is that called?
12:42:56  <norbert79> Moment, have to look, I ma using a lot
12:43:00  <xiong> Also, what is the large, long building in the center?
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12:43:45  <norbert79> xiong: Granary
12:44:00  <xiong> Another NewGRF, I suppose.
12:44:02  <norbert79> Nyírfa 3. and 4. are for Goods related transport
12:44:06  <norbert79> no, same GRF
12:44:20  <norbert79> the whole station is being built by using one GRF addon
12:45:04  <xiong> Ah. The granary is an integral part of the station. Good show.
12:45:27  <norbert79> xiong: industrial_stations_renewal kit
12:45:37  * xiong looks
12:46:42  <xiong> Okay, I will have to experiment with these things. Now, I want to make a sharp turn.
12:46:54  <norbert79> xiong: Can send you the whole savegame if you would like to have
12:47:02  <norbert79> but you might missing some add-ons
12:47:20  <xiong> Better not; I'm still leaving trucks stopped mid-road. I have much to learn.
12:47:36  <xiong> That was the cause of the jam: The lead truck was manually stopped.
12:48:07  <norbert79> xiong: Sharp turns are not always adviseable for trains at least, thats why the layout of my station... I always only prefer sharp turns at the end of the stations. When they move away, they have to have as straight tracks as possible
12:48:28  <xiong> I meant, a sharp turn in the convo. A new topic.
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12:50:10  <xiong> I want to make a list of town names. Should this just be a straight list or do I have the duty/freedom to specify anything about the town names? That is, can I say 'this is a big city name', 'this city should be near the sea' --?
12:50:33  <norbert79> xiong: Why wqould you like to make a list of townnames?
12:50:43  <norbert79> Why don't you just list them using the right button?
12:51:26  <xiong> I seriously do not care for British town names. They all sound to my ears like 'North St. Twiddleesburgh-by-the-sea'.
12:51:49  <norbert79> xiong: Then select a different collection in the settings menu
12:51:53  <xiong> I have loaded Alaskan Town Names, which is slightly better.
12:52:07  <xiong> But I'd prefer to create my own set of town names.
12:53:09  <norbert79> I think you have a town-list name selection in your langugae too
12:53:22  <norbert79> at least it is available in the settings
12:56:38  <xiong> Um, actually, no, I don't see 'American Town Names' or 'USA Town Names'. Anyway, I want to write Pennsylvania Town Names.
12:57:00  <xiong> I don't want Denver and Houston in there. Just Pennsy.
12:57:35  <norbert79> I doubt, that you will find something similar, like that
12:57:45  <norbert79> but you can still create an own-addon and add those names
12:57:52  <xiong> I agree. That's why I expect to make it myself.
12:57:52  <norbert79> like with the Canadian Twon Names set
12:58:27  <xiong> No trouble editing the list of names. But I don't know what additional flags may be set, if any, for a given name.
12:58:27  <norbert79> Then you have to get familar yourself with GRF creation
12:59:03  <xiong> Actually, I'm hoping to fob the work off onto somebody who knows what he's doing.
12:59:32  <xiong> I just need to know what information to supply.
13:00:46  <norbert79> xiong: :) Things do not work like that within this community :) You cannot expect anyone to get things done for you, even if you ask for that kindly. You have to take the necessary step, and do it on your own
13:00:55  <norbert79> as this is a special request
13:01:09  <norbert79> and not aligning with already current GRF developments
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13:01:15  <planetmaker> xiong, there's to my knowledge at least one or two Chinese town name sets
13:01:30  <norbert79> planetmaker: He/she is looiking for Pennsylvania state names only
13:01:35  <norbert79> town names
13:01:38  <planetmaker> oh :-)
13:02:06  <planetmaker> well, then. There's a number of townname newgrfs on the DevZone.
13:02:27  <planetmaker> It would just need to take one, replace the town names by those of your own choice. And then nearly be done with it
13:02:30  <planetmaker> Just mind the licenses
13:02:38  <norbert79> normally all are GPL
13:02:48  <planetmaker> On the DevZone: yes, all
13:02:56  <norbert79> yet keep in mind if you want to release it, you have to follow GPL rules
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13:03:09  <xiong> planetmaker, I've seen the Chinese sets. I'm not Chinese.
13:03:14  <planetmaker> wouldn't be hard, if you make it GPL, too and host it on the DevZone
13:03:21  <norbert79> xiong: Your name and ID sounds like one
13:03:25  <planetmaker> xiong, my bad. Your nick seems to suggest
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13:04:02  <Belugas> hello
13:04:04  <planetmaker> no offense meant
13:04:05  <xiong> I'm sorry but I'm not making myself clear. The *source* file for creation of a town name addon: Should it contain anything except a list of names?
13:04:06  <norbert79> Hello Belugas
13:04:07  <planetmaker> hi Belugas
13:04:21  <planetmaker> xiong, look at the existing sets
13:04:25  <Belugas> hi guys
13:04:26  <peter1138> It specifically shouldn't contain a list of names.
13:04:26  <norbert79> xiong: GRF creation is not that simple by just having one file, and thats it...
13:04:45  *** Chris_Booth [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:04:46  <xiong> Well, I don't find anything offensive about being presumed Chinese.
13:05:23  *** tdev [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:05:41  <norbert79> xiong: Just for the curiosity of myself: Where were you born, and where do you live atm? Naming the country is enough
13:05:42  <xiong> I realize it's not that simple. Nothing is ever that simple. But I can write down, on a single sheet of paper, a list of names -- one name per line. That's a starting point.
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13:06:09  <xiong> I'm a Pennsylvanian.
13:06:38  <norbert79> xiong: And how did you gather your name? relatives are from Asia I assume
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13:07:31  <xiong> What I'm asking is: Does the game require or recognize any other information about a town name, other than the bare name itself? For comparison: Freeciv has names for various civilizations. It knows which names belong to coastal cities and will try to assign coastal names to coastal cities, in the game.
13:07:51  <xiong> Obviously, the coastalness of a city name must be stored alongside the name itself. Clear?
13:08:17  <norbert79> xiong: I think OpenTTD it's more simple: it uses a pre-defined list of names of a set, and thats it
13:08:40  <norbert79> you have to define what set that would be, so the names will be created accordingly
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13:09:24  <norbert79> xiong: And btw Freeciv does not store this information for all nations, especially for those, who never had any coasts
13:09:28  <xiong> That's my question. So, there's nothing to distinguish one name from another; it's just a grab-bag. Therefore, I want to avoid names like 'McKeesport', since there's no guarantee it will actually be used anywhere near water.
13:09:56  <norbert79> planetmaker: Ok, can you help me out on this one? I never really cared about this part of the game
13:10:24  <dihedral> head - desk
13:10:41  <xiong> Nor is there any guarantee that, say, 'Philadelphia' will be assigned to a large city -- a city in openttd terms, which IIUC means it will grow faster than usual.
13:10:46  <norbert79> dihedral: Well, he might find it important, I just don't care on the selection really
13:10:51  <dihedral> why is it they all have to nag and bother one single person on topics
13:10:56  <dihedral> oh - i forgot - he's the authority :-P
13:11:08  <dihedral> norbert79, he = xiong ?
13:11:21  <norbert79> dihedral: Yes
13:11:33  <dihedral> he finds it crucially important to define something like GA and NGA before he can proceed with expressing what he is on about
13:11:39  <dihedral> and still, we have not seen anything
13:11:43  <xiong> I care about city names because I must type them frequently and because they are the main way of thinking about a place. My brain is full. I already have Pennsylvania place names stored in there.
13:11:50  <dihedral> just a bunch of jibber jabber
13:11:55  <norbert79> xiong: Ehm, no city in the game will be as large as the assigned name. Some big cities might start with 315 inhabitants at the start. If you want to have a good layout, following real circumstances you ahve to create the map then for yourself
13:12:21  <planetmaker> No location-dependence that I know of for towns
13:12:36  <dihedral> there is a minor location dependence for station names
13:12:41  <planetmaker> <-- check out section on town names
13:14:12  <xiong> No thanks, norbert79; I just want a set of default names.
13:14:24  <xiong> This is not a big deal.
13:14:45  <norbert79> xiong: There are no "defaults" for Pennsylvania... You have only an american set built in, thats it
13:15:10  <xiong> Actually, no, really, I do not see such a thing.
13:15:21  <GhostlyDeath> The American list should include every single town in the US
13:15:35  <norbert79> xiong: Settings menu, right side
13:15:40  <GhostlyDeath> If it doesn't already
13:15:53  <xiong> I'm sorry if I'm using words in a confusing manner. I'm trying to be very clear about what I intend to make: A list of towns in Pennsylvania.
13:16:12  <norbert79> Not seperatly, but included probably in the american twon set names
13:16:23  <norbert79> for a seperate list you have to create a GRF on your own
13:16:32  <norbert79> or create a map manually, and renaming each town one by one
13:17:16  <GhostlyDeath> Using the default OpenTTD you are screwed unless you make your own list
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13:18:44  <norbert79> xiong: I really envy the time you own and having no worries on other things :)
13:18:53  <xiong> norbert79, Yes, that's clear. I'm not sure why we're still talking about it. We can if you like but my questions are all at right angles to the discussion.
13:19:15  <planetmaker> which can be a problem at times :-D
13:19:22  <dihedral> more 180 degrees if you ask me
13:19:30  <xiong> My questions were answered long ago.
13:19:38  <norbert79> xiong: Dude, let me be honest: noone is really caring about the problem you are facing with... If you want to have Pennsylvanian names only, do it for yourself...
13:19:55  <xiong> norbert79, That's my plan. What's the problem?
13:19:55  <dihedral> make a grf, upload it to bananas
13:19:56  <norbert79> So lets switch topics finally
13:20:03  <dihedral> and watch the 'downloded' number
13:20:11  <norbert79> xiong: The problem is, that you still keep on going on talking about it
13:20:23  <dihedral> can we voice norbert79 :-D
13:20:26  * planetmaker hugs norbert79
13:20:33  <xiong> No; *you* keep talking about it. I don't know why.
13:20:46  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20923 /trunk/src/network/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: prepare creating sub-classes of NetworkClientSocket for server and client side
13:20:58  <dihedral> well, guys, then we can shut it now and move perhaps on to a more favourable topic?
13:21:14  <norbert79> xiong: Wow, do you ever feel you are not right on something? dihedral: My word exactly
13:21:14  <xiong> I've *been* done.
13:21:27  <xiong> norbert79, What do you want from me?
13:21:35  <dihedral> QUIT IT GUYS
13:21:38  <norbert79> ...planetmaker... May I daddy?
13:21:39  <dihedral> both of you!
13:22:05  <norbert79> dihedral: I am trying, I am trying...
13:22:10  <dihedral> if you want to fight join #/dev/null
13:22:27  <norbert79> No, thank you, I am picky one :))
13:22:28  <dihedral> or take it to #moocows
13:22:37  <GhostlyDeath> I know a place where you can fight
13:22:41  <dihedral> :-P
13:22:44  <GhostlyDeath> But you'll be trapped there for all of eternity
13:22:49  <norbert79> GhostlyDeath: Well, I know a good pub nearby
13:22:52  <xiong> I don't want to fight. I have no intention of fighting. I thought this was a civil discussion.
13:22:56  <GhostlyDeath> and if I utter it's words.... I may be banned from this channel
13:23:17  <GhostlyDeath> Unless the moderators laugh at the follishness of the users who don't know IRC
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13:25:16  <dihedral> xiong, how about we drop discussions for a while ;-)
13:25:24  <norbert79> Is it me, or did the Scene lose his sense of taste for good music? I have downloaded music from 4 parties, and I could only find a few items which sounded a bit different, than those from 5 years ago
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13:26:03  <dihedral> norbert79,
13:26:21  <norbert79> dihedral: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, a man with a good taste :))
13:27:02  <dihedral> it's merely a remix
13:27:06  <dihedral> freshed up a little actually
13:27:36  <dihedral> wanted to extend the notes the sax holds a little, but never got around to that back then :-P
13:28:01  <norbert79> :) Well, might be also worth trying to have these notes played live
13:28:17  <dihedral> i could :-P
13:28:28  <dihedral> at least regarding the sax :-P
13:28:34  <norbert79> Good for you... I tried to learn piano, but I failed badly :)
13:28:43  <norbert79> never tried again since then
13:28:59  <dihedral> it's only after having sax lessons that i really picked things up
13:29:14  <xiong> dihedral, I haven't been rude to you, have I? Do you feel that's so? I feel I've angered you and it makes no sense to me at all.
13:29:48  <dihedral> i could explain with one word xiong
13:29:54  <dihedral> starts with N ends with ORTH
13:29:57  <dihedral> :-D
13:30:00  <norbert79> :)
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13:30:49  <norbert79> xiong: Do you have friends in real life, or do you go out occasionally? I am just curious, since you are formal and such... We on the IRC behave like in real life, at least thats valid for me
13:30:51  <xiong> Now I'm utterly confused. I try hard to understand, to meet other fellows in the middle. I don't always succeed but I'm entirely sincere.
13:32:18  <xiong> I've been down this road before. Someone is offended, I try hard to find out why; the effort just annoys further. I'm going to go back to what I was doing. I think it's probably best if we don't pursue it further.
13:32:19  <norbert79> hmm... 1 more hour, and I am free... Guess I will have a beer later on
13:34:39  <planetmaker> <norbert79> ...planetmaker... May I daddy? <-- (nearly) whatever pleases you ;-)
13:34:41  <dihedral> xiong, i am not mad at you ;-)
13:34:50  <norbert79> planetmaker: Lol...
13:35:16  <dihedral> "daddy" in this channel still refers to Belugas (at least for me) :-D
13:35:27  <norbert79> Why? How old is he? :)
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13:35:36  <planetmaker> :-) Fits way better indeed
13:35:57  <dihedral> norbert79, age is not relevant in that case :-P
13:36:10  <norbert79> dihedral: Ah, right got it, because of the admin status :D
13:36:23  <dihedral> erm - no
13:36:29  <norbert79> Then?
13:36:32  <planetmaker> not at all :-)
13:36:33  <dihedral> ...
13:36:41  <planetmaker> Just for being him is sufficient in his case
13:36:47  <dihedral> :-D
13:37:11  <xiong> dihedral, I'm trying to let this pass quietly. Whenever you address me and I'm not in the chat window, it alerts me. If you want seriously to discuss this, I'm willing, privately. Otherwise, you are simply going to drive me from the channel in order to end the disruption. Is that what you want?
13:37:13  <norbert79> Well, I don't get it still, yet I am also a father, if we look at it from that perspective
13:37:45  <planetmaker> :-)
13:37:54  <Mortomes|TGIF> That doesn't sound like a bad idea, actually.
13:38:22  <planetmaker> norbert79, but he's around here for longer than you. So it makes him the channel daddy ;-)
13:38:32  <dihedral> xiong, the only one you could hurt is yourself ;-)
13:38:32  <norbert79> planetmaker: Aaaah, right, thanks :)
13:38:45  <dihedral> and i am not going to start a discussion
13:39:04  <Belugas> it does not matter how old i am :)  my son does not care how old i am, just how often i'm with him heheh
13:39:13  <dihedral> :-)
13:39:15  <xiong> dihedral, Do you want to perpetuate this or just let it drop?
13:39:17  <planetmaker> please no "you don't like me" discussions. They're pointless and infinitely boring
13:39:18  <dihedral> hello Sir Belugas
13:39:23  <norbert79> Belugas: And he is right, isn't he? :)
13:39:37  <norbert79> Belugas: Hello there :)
13:39:58  <Belugas> hi hi :)
13:40:20  <planetmaker> Belugas, you now have the official title "daddy of the channel" ;-)
13:40:21  <dihedral> loves it when people cannot laugh about themselves
13:40:35  <dihedral> and no - i will also not start a private chat ;-)
13:40:38  <dihedral> i have no need to
13:40:54  <norbert79> dihedral: Give me a mirror, hurry! I wanna have a good laugh ;-)
13:40:58  <dihedral> daaaad? :-)
13:41:01  <Belugas> "who's your daddy" now souds a bit different to me :)
13:41:07  <norbert79> Belugas: Lol
13:41:19  * andythenorth_ is the daddy
13:41:30  <dihedral> andythenorth_, 'a' not 'the' :-P
13:41:31  <dihedral> hehe
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13:41:44  <andythenorth_> it's a question of information
13:41:57  <andythenorth_> in my baby's model of the world, I am *the* daddy :P
13:42:04  <dihedral> yes
13:42:07  <dihedral> no doubt
13:44:24  <norbert79> To everyone whom concerns, and didn't know it before: Today's funny:
13:44:30  <Belugas> yeah now for Father's Day :D
13:45:05  <Priski> whas? It's father's day? when?
13:45:17  <norbert79> Lucky ones, who have father days
13:45:55  <Belugas> naaa...  not now... just... yeah for its existence :)
13:46:04  <Priski> My father just got disapointted again when another over 1k eur bill came today :(
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13:46:08  <davis> weeekend <3
13:46:18  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20924 /trunk/src/network/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: make the game connection packet handling look more like UDP/content packet handling
13:46:33  <norbert79> Priski: Of what??
13:46:48  <Belugas> Priski, it might be a good thing. It means that the money MIGHT be there to cover a nice expense :)
13:46:48  <Priski> "Is that a bill, give it to me and I will pay it." "eh, maybe not..."
13:47:21  <norbert79> Priski: What was those 1000 € for?
13:47:42  <Priski> well those are remnants of my past life when I got myself big trouble
13:47:52  <norbert79> Priski: Aaah... I see
13:48:07  <Priski> 2 times I had to move out of my apartment because I had no money to pay the bills
13:48:57  <norbert79> 1000 euros... My bils are normally the half of it
13:48:57  <davis> that sounds pretty damn awfull
13:49:01  <Priski> sucks to have mark on records that basically removes all changes get any loan or anything like that for years
13:49:14  <norbert79> Priski: :(
13:49:23  <davis> sumoi :I
13:49:35  <davis> suomi*
13:49:37  <Priski> I have about 3,5k eur still waiting to be payed
13:49:49  <Priski> but no worries
13:50:08  <Priski> everything gonna be all right eventually :)
13:50:19  <Belugas> my biggest bill was of 79K$
13:50:30  <Belugas> will finish to pay august 2012
13:50:32  <norbert79> Belugas: Christ...
13:50:32  <Priski> I have now 0 income
13:50:32  <Belugas> buwhahahahaq
13:50:36  <davis> mine was like .. 700Euro? :D
13:50:39  <norbert79> Belugas: Pff :)
13:50:45  <Belugas> a house is not cheap :)
13:50:47  <Belugas> lol
13:50:52  <Belugas> ask peter1138 ;)
13:51:00  <Belugas> mh... that was mean... sorry peter1138
13:51:08  <davis> 79 isn't that much for a house is it
13:51:13  <norbert79> Belugas: I live in a flat, and yet I have to pay 400-500 € each month covering loan, electrcitiy, etc...
13:51:15  <Priski> 100k loan for apartment is not unusual here
13:51:18  <Belugas> back then, it was normal
13:51:26  <peter1138> Herp
13:51:28  <norbert79> davis: Not at all...
13:51:44  <norbert79> davis: Well, depends where you live
13:51:50  <peter1138> Still have another 12 years to pay that off...
13:51:51  <davis> I quite frankly remember my parents paying about 500k Euro
13:51:59  <davis> for the house I live in
13:52:08  <Belugas> it goes fast, peter1138, really fast...
13:52:30  <Priski> thank god I live country that still gives me a fair change in life, I'm gonna be moving again next month
13:52:32  <peter1138> I pay off extra, as it saves more than savings would give me.
13:52:53  <norbert79> Now everything depends how much income you have each month :)
13:52:56  <Priski> and I'v been told that ALL my expenses will be payed by city and sosial services
13:52:56  * andythenorth_ has seen many things in this channel, but not a house price discussion :)
13:52:59  <davis> Priski where are you from? Finland?
13:52:59  <andythenorth_> how very british !
13:53:04  <Priski> rent, everything...
13:53:09  <Priski> davis: jeah
13:53:13  <davis> i like Finland :I
13:53:25  <norbert79> Priski: And we just had a business visit from Finland :)
13:53:35  <Priski> first snow day here today
13:53:45  <norbert79> Priski: Awww, don't mention it, I don't wanna
13:53:50  <Priski> :D
13:53:58  <davis> summer please.
13:54:04  <norbert79> Priski: We had the worst snowing last year, it wasn't snowing like for the past 30 years
13:54:07  <Prof_Frink> Snow please.
13:54:14  <davis> shush
13:54:24  <norbert79> No, thank you, had to remove every day 10-15 cm of snow off my car
13:54:34  <Belugas> true that peter1138.  I remember you started with 25 years, i think
13:55:11  <norbert79> And now, Backin up song! :
13:55:13  <Priski> this is where I live now, it's pretty nice on clear winter days
13:55:15  <Prof_Frink> norbert79: A small price to pay to be able to go and do some proper climbing.
13:55:35  <norbert79> Prof_Frink: Well, my country is rather flat, so not much use of a snow here :)
13:55:40  <davis> sure is usefull to cool down your beer , Priski
13:55:47  <norbert79> Priski: Ok, this looks cool
13:56:12  <Priski> well put your beer outside on snow and forget them for couple of hours
13:56:12  * Prof_Frink grabs axes and heads off up to Priski's
13:56:27  <Priski> your beer is frosen pretty fast
13:56:29  <Priski> :)
13:56:38  <Belugas> winter?  snow?  I'm depressed
13:56:39  <Priski> frozen
13:56:53  <davis> haha
13:56:54  <norbert79> Priski: And I live here... :)
13:57:00  <davis> Belugas , i'm on your side there
13:57:06  <davis> winter mostly makes me go ":/"
13:57:07  <davis> moodwise
13:57:12  <Priski> ah hungary :)
13:57:15  * Belugas nods
13:57:23  <Belugas> freaking climate
13:57:28  <norbert79> :D
13:57:36  <davis>ékesfehérvár.ogg
13:57:36  <davis> :D
13:57:42  <Priski> looks pretty nice
13:57:43  <Priski> :)
13:57:47  <Belugas> I WANT SUN AND HEAT ALL YEAR LONG!!!!!
13:57:59  <andythenorth_> Belugas: india
13:58:03  <andythenorth_> except during monsoon
13:58:04  * dihedral is going to brazil in about a month :-P
13:58:11  <Priski> Belugas: sahara?
13:58:13  <dihedral> SUN :-)
13:58:15  <Belugas> hehehe
13:58:18  <Belugas> n sahara
13:58:22  <Belugas> not enough place to dive
13:58:23  <Priski> there it is pretty sunny
13:58:24  <norbert79> thank you... Well, about the climate: true. Summer hot and above 40°C on days (in shadow), and in winter, sometimes going down to -25°C
13:58:34  <Belugas> india sounds pleasant
13:58:44  <norbert79> Yeah, it's nice as people tell me
13:58:53  <Belugas> but let's stop dreaming and go back to work
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13:58:56  <Priski> far east is nice
13:59:01  <Priski> hehe
13:59:03  * andythenorth_ invented FIRS in india
13:59:10  <Priski> =)
13:59:14  <davis> good that i don't gain any weight , because otherwise i'd turn major heavy within the  winter months
13:59:21  <Prof_Frink> Winter makes me dream of this:
14:00:00  <davis>
14:00:00  <norbert79> Prof_Frink: Well, those yellow shoes are nice, no wonder you dream about them ;-)
14:00:04  <andythenorth_> winter makes me dream of bombay and 37' heat
14:00:05  <davis> I wish i'd still fit on one of those
14:00:13  <norbert79> davis :) Nice one
14:00:30  *** Lakie` is now known as Lakie
14:01:05  <davis> yeah I used to own a "sled" like that
14:01:34  <norbert79> davis: Well, mine is rather more simple :)
14:01:41  <norbert79> davis: I won a similar to this
14:01:44  <norbert79> own
14:01:45  <davis> fun nevertheless :D
14:01:49  <norbert79> Indeed :)
14:02:04  <norbert79> When I was a kid, I had a 'bob' made out of plastic
14:02:14  <norbert79> a flat sled, not totally flat
14:02:23  <norbert79> my dad brought me to a place where we could have lot of fun
14:02:32  <norbert79> and I didn't know that the area next to it was a ski-slope
14:02:36  <norbert79> no signals, nothing
14:02:39  <norbert79> and I went there
14:02:42  <davis> hahaha
14:02:54  <norbert79> I was sliding down, was funny, because it started being very fast
14:03:06  <norbert79> could stop at the end though but boy I was scared for a bit :D
14:03:09  <davis> yeah i crashed the ski-slope with a "snow tube" once , got a 30 days ban
14:03:26  <norbert79> ouch
14:03:33  <davis> worth it
14:03:33  <Prof_Frink> I did some on-piste bumsliding last year
14:03:37  <norbert79> luckily rules were not that tight there back then
14:03:43  <davis> :D Prof_Frink
14:04:05  <davis> i remember going downhills sitting on nothing but a plastic shopping back
14:04:14  <davis> bag*
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14:04:15  <davis> not back
14:04:33  <norbert79> davis: Lol, tried it once, but I always failed to have the bag under me, so I always ended up losing it :)
14:04:37  <norbert79> I mean the bag :D
14:04:56  <davis> :D
14:04:58  <davis> and your mind
14:05:08  <norbert79> luckily, thats still at it's place :D
14:05:32  <davis> anyhow winter can be fun , still i prefer summer
14:05:38  <norbert79> same here
14:05:53  <davis> e.g for the reason that you can fall asleep drunk anywhere without freezing to death
14:06:27  <davis> i'm just 19 before people start calling me an old alcoholic :D
14:06:34  <norbert79> we already had one death in Hungary because the guy froze during night
14:06:47  <davis> sucks D:
14:07:04  <norbert79> davis: jesus, start worry if they call you J.R (series Dallas), or Jeltin :D
14:07:06  <norbert79> Jeltzin
14:07:14  <davis> lol.
14:07:53  * planetmaker wonders whether every SU or Russian president has a vodka named after him
14:08:38  <norbert79> Vodka GOrbachov exists... Never heard of Jeltizin Vodka
14:08:46  <davis>
14:08:53  <norbert79> It ecists...
14:08:54  <davis> Vodka Putinka
14:08:55  <norbert79> exists
14:09:01  <Eddi|zuHause> i have never heard of a russian leader called "absolut" :p
14:09:06  <norbert79> Guess thats a yes :D
14:09:24  <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: Neither is there any beer called Kohl :D
14:09:27  <Belugas> mmh.. excuse me if I ask but... while sending UPD packages, do i need to wait for the server to answer? like an acknowledgement or such?
14:09:41  <planetmaker> norbert79, but I've seen Jeltzin vodka in stores here :-)
14:09:51  <norbert79> Belugas: UDO transfer is kinda like echo of a submarine, no handshake is needed like with TCP
14:09:55  <norbert79> UDP
14:10:13  <norbert79> Belugas: If the receiver sees it, it answers
14:10:14  <Eddi|zuHause> "Just one Ping"
14:11:00  <norbert79> planetmaker: And it indeed exists... Weird, thats a yes then :)
14:11:11  <Belugas> ok. thanks
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14:17:47  <Eddi|zuHause> <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: Neither is there any beer called Kohl :D <-- are you sure? i mean, there are literally thousands of beers. you can't possibly know them all
14:19:06  <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: It's just not common naming beers after famous german chancellors
14:19:16  <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: But I don't know to be honest :)
14:24:21  <Belugas> mmh... music time... need to think
14:25:12  <dihedral> ding - times up
14:25:30  <Eddi|zuHause> norbert79: honestly, people rather associate Kohl with Saumagen, not beer...
14:26:16  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: your nick is green now, how comes? It used to be blue
14:26:39  <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: looks like i was "4" earlier today
14:26:50  <Eddi|zuHause> no idea, how that happened
14:27:38  <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is, in a two-computer-setup i have trouble synchronizing the reconnect scripts
14:28:08  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20925 /trunk/src/network/ (7 files): -Codechange: make the client send commands have a slightly more sensible name
14:28:19  <Eddi|zuHause> so my 24h disconnect disrupts the irc connection
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14:43:13  <norbert79> later
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14:46:25  <Mortomes|TGIF> Home! Weekend!
14:49:13  <davis> indeed!
14:49:27  * andythenorth_ ponders how to test
14:50:43  <Rubidium> thoroughly
14:50:50  <andythenorth_> Rubidium: is it the 2nd byte of var 18 I need to check?
14:50:51  <planetmaker> andythenorth_, for testing purposes: double production for one case. And start a map with HIGH industry count and cheat yourself money
14:50:57  <planetmaker> and build some. And check.
14:51:03  <planetmaker> Primary industries are easiest then
14:51:21  <davis>
14:51:25  <andythenorth_> planetmaker: it's a tile check, so fooling with industry properties would be more complicated :P
14:51:30  <planetmaker> if it works - then you can attach the real purpose to this CB
14:51:48  <planetmaker> andythenorth_, then change the acceptance
14:51:59  <andythenorth_> I'm just going to allow/disallow building for each value in turn
14:52:05  <andythenorth_> and manually change and rebuild
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14:55:21  <andythenorth_> brr
14:55:32  <andythenorth_> checking for game building industry randomly is a PITA
14:55:50  <planetmaker> andythenorth_, fast forward.
14:56:02  <planetmaker> modify likelyhood of industries before you test
14:57:35  <andythenorth_> hmm
14:57:43  <andythenorth_> either the patch is flawed or my code is flawed
14:57:48  <andythenorth_> probably my code
14:59:15  <andythenorth_> I am playing 'guess which byte' for var 18
15:09:12  <andythenorth_> uint16 callback_res = GetIndustryTileCallback(CBID_INDTILE_SHAPE_CHECK, 0, creation_type << 8 | itspec_index, gfx, &ind, ind_tile);
15:09:26  <andythenorth_> puts the creation type in second byte?
15:10:06  * Belugas nods
15:10:40  <Belugas> or at least, moves it 8 bits to the left
15:10:56  <andythenorth_> and so in nfo I use a shift of 08h to read that byte?
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15:12:26  <Belugas> heeeeuuu.... yes?
15:12:47  <Belugas> do i sound sure of myself?
15:13:33  <planetmaker> andythenorth_, you do the same thing as the OpenTTD code :-)
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15:36:20  * andythenorth_ wonders how many industries should get built in 10 years of gameplay
15:36:59  <Belugas> 42
15:37:15  <andythenorth_> well in that case rubidium's patch certainly works #4096
15:37:37  <KouDy> hello
15:38:23  <andythenorth_> hi
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15:40:42  <andythenorth_> frick
15:42:29  <andythenorth_> Rubidium: this should prevent building if player is prospecting
15:42:29  <andythenorth_>
15:42:31  <andythenorth_> it doesn't
15:42:37  <andythenorth_> so either I'm wrong, or the patch is
15:43:04  <andythenorth_> probably m
15:43:05  <andythenorth_> e
15:43:23  <Eddi|zuHause> comments are a little scarce
15:44:55  <planetmaker> andythenorth_, IF there are other information encoded as well with that variable, you'll need to apply some kind of mask. But I don't know the answer to that IF ;-)
15:45:31  <andythenorth_> I shouldn't need to mask if I'm bit shifting to get the second byte....
15:45:55  <andythenorth_> hmm
15:45:57  <planetmaker> unless there's also information in the other bits which you're not interested in
15:46:09  <andythenorth_> I'm not sure
15:46:10  <planetmaker> always mask-out everything you don't need
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15:46:23  <planetmaker> that's playing it safe :-)
15:46:26  <andythenorth_> this has no spec yet, and I can't read the source very well
15:47:06  <andythenorth_> I'll sort it out later
15:47:16  <andythenorth_> looks like rubi is bust with other stuff :)
15:47:20  <andythenorth_> busy /s
15:47:27  <Eddi|zuHause> what's the location of the code?
15:47:33  <andythenorth_>
15:47:45  <andythenorth_> last diff on that ticket
15:50:27  <Eddi|zuHause> can you use gdb/other debugger to set a breakpoint on this line: +					CommandCost ret = CreateNewIndustryHelper(tile, it, flags, indspec, RandomRange(indspec->num_table), random_var8f, random_initial_bits, cur_company.GetOriginalValue(), IACT_PROSPECTCREATION, &ind);
15:50:52  <andythenorth_> I can if I learn how to set breakpoints
15:51:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i have never done that myself, but i'm sure several people here can explain this
15:51:39  <Eddi|zuHause> and step forward to this line: +	uint16 callback_res = GetIndustryTileCallback(CBID_INDTILE_SHAPE_CHECK, 0, creation_type << 8 | itspec_index, gfx, &ind, ind_tile);
15:51:42  <planetmaker> andythenorth_, it seems to be a bit thingy describing the creation_type. Which is in the 2nd byte
15:51:45  <Eddi|zuHause> if the breakpoint hits
15:51:51  <planetmaker> so you check for 1,2,4 or 8.
15:51:55  <planetmaker> I might totally be wrong
15:52:58  <planetmaker> with 1=mapgen, 2=random, 4=user built, 8=user prospected
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15:53:07  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: no, it's not a bitmask
15:53:10  * andythenorth_ learns about breakpoints
15:53:27  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it's a normal enum
15:53:29  <planetmaker> it's an enum which is bit-shifted... hm, yes
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15:53:39  <planetmaker> vice versa than I read it
15:53:51  <planetmaker> so still one of 0,1,2,3
15:57:57  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes, and in his varaction2 he checks for "is it 3?" or "else"
15:58:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm just not sure what the results mean
15:58:52  <planetmaker> yes
15:58:54  <Eddi|zuHause> 0x401 or 0x400
15:59:06  <planetmaker> andythenorth_, you probably want to check for 2 or 3 :-)
15:59:32  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: why would he?
15:59:41  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: he said he wanted to test prospecting
15:59:55  <planetmaker> oh. missed that :-)
16:00:48  <Eddi|zuHause> my untrained eyes see nothing obviously wrong, though
16:01:43  <planetmaker> same here. But where do you take the 0x40[0|1] from?
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16:11:04  <andythenorth_> planetmaker:
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16:11:16  <andythenorth_> return values for cb28
16:11:41  <andythenorth_> maybe that's where I'm mistaken
16:13:09  <planetmaker> where do you return that value there?
16:13:33  <andythenorth_> returned to cb2f
16:13:46  <andythenorth_> depending on the value of var 18 byte 2
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16:15:16  <planetmaker> well, yes... but it doesn't show in your code anywhere
16:15:21  <planetmaker> why do you add 0x80?
16:15:35  <planetmaker> and not just \w401 ?
16:15:41  <planetmaker> Probably it's my NFO failing there
16:15:42  <andythenorth_> let me check
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16:16:25  <andythenorth_> the return value needs 0x80 added
16:16:28  <andythenorth_> not sure why
16:16:32  <andythenorth_> because it's 15 bit?
16:17:00  <Eddi|zuHause> 0x8000 must be added for it to be a callback result
16:17:24  <andythenorth_> that's why then :)
16:17:29  <Eddi|zuHause> that's a general NFO thing
16:17:33  <planetmaker> so... I'd return \w8401?
16:17:42  <planetmaker> \wx8401
16:18:00  <andythenorth_> yes I guess
16:18:50  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that works in this case, but you get additional headaches when you want to return a decimal number and need to add 0x8000
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16:29:11  <andythenorth_> is there a way to know which rev this will compile against?
16:31:18  <Belugas> which part?
16:31:25  <Belugas> frosh's?
16:32:01  <andythenorth_> yup
16:32:10  <andythenorth_> this diff
16:32:45  <SmatZ> --- src/newgrf_engine.h	(revision 19225)
16:33:07  <SmatZ> the diff itself shows the revision :)
16:33:31  <andythenorth_> oops
16:33:43  * andythenorth_ mistook svn and hg revs :o
16:34:26  <Belugas> fast SmatZ
16:34:53  <SmatZ> :)
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16:37:55  <KouDy> you folks might know (before i start spamming forums) i had idea of feature that would be cool if OTTD remembered all open windows when you are closing the game (or quitting to main menu) any idea if this was suggested?
16:38:02  <KouDy> or is this even possible
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16:40:07  <andythenorth_> compiling r19225 fails for me :|
16:40:13  <andythenorth_> can't test frosch rv window patch
16:40:38  <Belugas> KouDy, not a new idea, not an easy one either
16:41:25  * andythenorth_ is not having a good day of testing patches :P
16:42:08  <Zuu> my patch testing isn't either very productive today. Haven't been involved with OpenTTD much at all the last weeks ^^
16:42:42  * andythenorth_ tests game instead - by playing it :P
16:43:11  * Belugas cannot test, cannot compile, cannot play. just tries to clean up
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16:43:25  <andythenorth_> quak
16:43:35  <andythenorth_> he must have heard my compiles failing :D
16:43:42  <KouDy> Belugas : i thought so, thanks
16:43:56  <frosch123> moin andy :)
16:43:59  * Zuu get paid to do traffic analysis 8 hours a day so not so much need for OpenTTD as before. :-)
16:44:05  <Zuu> And now I'm off for friday dinner :-p
16:45:20  <andythenorth_> frosch123: I tried to test this, but my compile fails:
16:45:25  <Belugas> no Problem, KouDy.  I have to say, though, that it's a tempting idea.  just that... it is not an easy one
16:46:49  <frosch123> andythenorth_: did you apply the ttdp diff?
16:47:05  <andythenorth_> I applied
16:47:42  <frosch123> static const uint ROADVEHINFO_DEFAULT_VEHICLE_WIDTH = 28; <- well, change that to 32 manually :)
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16:55:02  *** mode/#openttd [+o frosch123] by DorpsGek
16:55:14  *** mode/#openttd [-o frosch123] by DorpsGek
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16:58:44  <planetmaker> @whoami
16:58:44  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: I don't recognize you.
16:59:00  <__ln__> @whoareyou
16:59:12  <dihedral> @whoami
16:59:12  <DorpsGek> dihedral: dih
16:59:13  <dihedral> :-P
16:59:42  <DorpsGek> dihedral: sorry. dihedral
16:59:52  <andythenorth_> frosch123: what should changing the RV default
16:59:53  <dihedral> well done TrueBrain :-)
17:00:12  <frosch123> andythenorth_: it is the size in the depot
17:00:30  <TrueBrain> ?
17:00:43  <dihedral> ^^
17:01:01  <dihedral> i know nobody else who would make use of the @say command ;-)
17:01:09  <andythenorth_> frosch123: changing it to size 32 makes it somewhat worse for HEQS articulated RVs
17:01:12  <TrueBrain> I rarely use it
17:01:19  <dihedral> you are the only one who can :-D
17:01:23  <frosch123> andythenorth_: but it should look the same as on the map
17:02:05  <frosch123> dihedral: why should anyone control the bot, if he can talk himself?
17:02:16  <andythenorth_> frosch123 it's possible that HEQS offsets are all wrong :)
17:04:47  <andythenorth_> HEQS offsets *are* all wrong :(
17:05:00  * TrueBrain gives planetmaker a big hug and congratulates him
17:05:17  * planetmaker returns the hug happily :-)
17:05:19  <TrueBrain> dihedral: all OpenTTD devs can, and a few more people
17:06:06  <dihedral> i thought say was limited to 'owner' ;-)
17:06:13  <DorpsGek> really ?
17:06:35  <DorpsGek> sorry then, will not allow it again
17:07:14  <glx> now the question is who said each sentence :)
17:07:16  <TrueBrain> LOL! DorpsGek really has a multi-personality disorder
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17:08:41  <andythenorth_> frosch123: do I have to correct all of HEQS to test your patch? :P
17:09:45  *** theholyduck [~holyduck@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:09:47  <frosch123> depends what you want to test :p
17:10:14  <frosch123> i already forgot, why the topic was raised again some days ago :)
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17:26:56  <andythenorth_> frosch123: default offsets look ok with non-articulated RVs, not sure what the change was needed for?
17:27:36  <frosch123> let's open the logs
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17:39:29  <planetmaker> hmpf.
17:40:00  <frosch123> that were only 13 minutes
17:40:12  <planetmaker> :-) I forgot that I was at university by car
17:40:19  <frosch123> lol
17:41:05  * andythenorth_ ponders
17:41:13  <andythenorth_> FIRS needs another destination for metal
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17:43:54  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20926 /trunk/src/lang/czech.txt:
17:43:54  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:43:54  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: czech - 2 changes by marek995
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17:50:06  <andythenorth_> where does metal go?
17:52:27  <Belugas> rust
17:52:33  <Belugas> than dust
17:52:35  <andythenorth_> -> junk yard
17:52:46  <Belugas> ha... that too :)
17:52:57  <Belugas> than back to furnace
17:53:02  <Belugas> and into new car
17:53:07  <Belugas>  or...else
17:53:16  <andythenorth_> hmm
17:53:18  <andythenorth_> cars
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17:53:34  <andythenorth_> no cars in firs
17:53:36  <Dagda> Hello
17:53:57  <Terkhen> hi Dagda
17:53:57  <planetmaker> hello Dagda
17:54:35  <Belugas> add a d and it's my favorite tuning :) (dadgad)
17:54:36  <Belugas> joke
17:54:40  <Belugas> hellp Dagda
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17:56:22  <Belugas> andythenorth_, could be anything made in metal
17:56:27  <Belugas> toys, for instance :)
17:59:00  <Dagda> I have a little problem/question : I have a lot of trains without "coop orders" (sry, my game is in french) but they have the same work to do (same base, same target), and now i would like change the target of all thoses trains ... I know it's possible to destroy the "coop orders" (it's possible to create them with a NEW train) but is there a way to give them a new "coop order" when they are not in "coop order" ?   (if my sente
17:59:00  <Dagda> nse is not understandable, say me ;)
17:59:27  <Dagda> Belugas, ;)
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18:01:47  <Dagda> (PS : I foud the way to give them the same order, but not in "coop order", just a copy of the "way", with a mouse clic on a specific train, but i dont ask that)
18:02:06  <Dagda> s/foud/found
18:03:34  <andythenorth_> Belugas: toys cargo :)
18:03:39  <michi_cc> Dagda: Ctrl-Click makes it a shared order.
18:04:17  <Dagda> michi_cc, ctrl-clic where ? O_o , i tryed a lot of things
18:04:28  <michi_cc> On another train
18:04:46  <michi_cc> Select Goto and then Ctrl-Click on a different train
18:06:21  <Dagda> In my game i clic on "target ( trains' way' window -> set), this action copy the way, right, but i cant see "end of coop order", i see "end of order" --> I must do that  on all trains to copy the order
18:06:47  <Dagda> s/set/goto
18:07:06  <Dagda> s/target/goto
18:07:21  <Dagda> I said that in the PS ....
18:07:28  <michi_cc> Yes, Goto plus normal click copies the order, Ctrl-Click makes it shared
18:07:29  <Dagda> Or i miss something maybe ...
18:07:36  <Dagda> ok !
18:08:03  <michi_cc> (At least in the nightly, but I can't remember anything that would change that for 1.0)
18:08:05  <Dagda> i'm going test that, thx ! :D
18:08:27  <Dagda> I'm with the 1.0.4
18:08:37  <Dagda> yes, 1.0 :)
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18:10:29  <Dagda> michi_cc, You'r my angel !!!
18:10:36  <Dagda> xxx !!!
18:10:56  <Dagda> this is working like a charm :D
18:10:59  <michi_cc> has a lot more of that stuff
18:12:10  <Dagda> I save your link, change all orders in my gme and i will read this usefull page !
18:13:02  <Dagda> Some people of the official OpentTTD project here ?
18:13:19  * Rubidium points to planetmaker :)
18:13:32  <frosch123> he has the authority here
18:13:34  <Dagda> If some workers, thank a lot for your work !!!!
18:13:45  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r20927 /trunk/src/order_gui.cpp: -Add [FS#3905]: Transfer orders imply 'leave empty' by default
18:13:55  <planetmaker> :-)
18:13:58  <Dagda> I'm very enjoy with thig game
18:14:00  <frosch123> good timing :)
18:14:31  <planetmaker> We're happy that you do, Dagda :-)
18:14:51  * andythenorth_ has way too much money :P
18:14:55  <andythenorth_> (in game, not life)
18:15:22  <planetmaker> andythenorth_: ^ pony for you :-)
18:15:24  <Belugas> hooo... look all... planetmaker did a commit!!
18:15:30  <Belugas> how come that be????
18:15:46  <andythenorth_> planetmaker: awesome
18:15:49  <Dagda> Good luck in this Openttd project, take care, and fun !
18:16:01  <andythenorth_> I could send you tips in game money :P
18:16:05  * Dagda kiss everybody in the place
18:16:14  <Dagda> xxx !!!
18:16:16  <Belugas> fuuuuuur  furrrrrrr
18:16:50  *** Dagda [] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
18:18:26  *** mode/#openttd [+o SmatZ] by DorpsGek
18:20:35  <planetmaker> @voice
18:20:38  *** mode/#openttd [+v planetmaker] by DorpsGek
18:20:39  <planetmaker> works :-)
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18:24:56  <norbert79> Evening
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18:29:18  * andythenorth_ hasn't won at testing patches :(
18:31:06  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r20928 /trunk/ (readme.txt src/misc_gui.cpp): -Update: we have a new developer
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18:35:30  <Eddi|zuHause> congrats@r20927 ;)
18:36:03  <planetmaker> thanks :-)
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18:40:28  <dihedral> Yexo, you were too late :-P
18:40:34  <dihedral> it's not in todays nightly :-P
18:40:49  <planetmaker> It's not him. I was too late
18:40:58  <dihedral> pffft
18:41:01  <Yexo> I could hardly commit that before 20927, that'd spoil the surprise
18:41:02  <dihedral> that was YOUR chance
18:41:16  <dihedral> :-)
18:41:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20929 /trunk/src/network/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: make NetworkCloseClient a class method
18:44:51  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20930 /trunk/src/network/network.cpp: -Codechange: simplify the socket handler allocation
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18:48:13  <Belugas> ts ts ts ts... dihedral... you could at least congratulate...
18:48:20  <Belugas> SNAP SNAP SNAP
18:48:21  <planetmaker> he did :-)
18:48:24  <Belugas> ho?
18:48:33  <Belugas> unSNAP unSNAP unSNAP
18:48:42  <peter1138> Belugas!
18:48:50  <planetmaker> :-)
18:49:01  <Belugas> si senor :)
18:49:11  <Belugas> yo soy THE Belugas!
18:49:43  <planetmaker> I had an open chat with him... so there :-)
18:49:43  <Eddi|zuHause> shouldn't it be "nos somos", since Belugas is plural? ;)
18:50:07  <dihedral> lol
18:50:09  <Belugas> hehehe
18:50:22  <Belugas> We agree
18:50:59  <Eddi|zuHause> ohoh... HE actually publishes a GRF...
18:51:42  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... are there NML tutorials yet?
18:52:47  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: there's a reference.html
18:52:57  <planetmaker> which explains things
18:53:08  <planetmaker> and there are a few reference projects, all open-source
18:53:11  <Yexo> and examples in the form of swedishrails and opengfx+trains thanks to planetmaker
18:53:16  <Terkhen> it's easy to learn by checking the projects at the devzone that are using it
18:53:20  <Eddi|zuHause> "russian officials warn of Yetis which fled from the fires"
18:55:29  * Terkhen remembers that he should continue learning it
18:56:48  <andythenorth_> my game is good but misses 3 things
18:56:55  <andythenorth_> :)
18:56:58  <andythenorth_> town growth control
18:57:02  <andythenorth_> a new rv set
18:57:06  <andythenorth_> and (maybe) road types
18:57:20  <andythenorth_> only one of those I can fix right now :)
18:57:41  <Terkhen> you could help us with ogfx-rv :P
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18:58:43  <andythenorth_> I want to start BANDIT
18:58:48  <andythenorth_> but how many sets can I start?
18:58:54  <andythenorth_> something has to get to 0.1
18:58:58  <andythenorth_> 1.0 sorry :)
18:59:39  <planetmaker> :-)
19:00:44  <andythenorth_> would road types actually be fun?
19:02:07  <planetmaker> yes
19:02:32  <planetmaker> even if you don't make use of more road types it'd be a step forward in terms of newgrf compatibility
19:03:23  <Eddi|zuHause> "This line sets the grfid of the resulting grf. The value is the letters AB followed by a byte with value 2 and then another one with value 3. The semicolon marks the end of the statement." <-- this line fails to mention the convention about "AB" being your initials, "" being your personal grf id, and "" being the grf version
19:03:29  <planetmaker> and they'd allow for nice things as visual change over time
19:03:59  <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: a lot of grfs don't follow that "convention" anyway
19:03:59  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: that convention fails easily for group projects
19:04:01  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20931 /trunk/src/dock_gui.cpp: -Document: Waterways toolbar click functions.
19:04:07  <Yexo> so it was deliberatly not included inthe documentation
19:04:18  <planetmaker> And the version thing in the ID is nearly obsolete
19:05:10  *** fonsinchen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:05:27  <frosch123> hopefully till sunday :)
19:06:38  <andythenorth_> road types is just more complexity in gameplay though?
19:06:49  <dihedral> so now planetmaker is a dev, everybody appart from planetmaker goes crazy on commits :-P
19:07:03  <andythenorth_> would road types be a griefing opportunity in MP?
19:07:14  <andythenorth_> i.e. rebuild roads to incompatible types?
19:07:55  <frosch123> andythenorth_: you can upgrade public bridges only to better ones
19:08:08  <Terkhen> IMO that heavily depends on how they would interact with town /not owned roads
19:08:14  <frosch123> though that does only work as long as "betterness" is transitive
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19:09:07  <andythenorth_> if I build a road, and a competitor starts using it with trucks needing (e.g.) type B roads, could I downgrade to type A roads (incompatible with those trucks)?
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19:09:59  <planetmaker> andythenorth_: that probably depends on the implementation and should probably not be possible
19:10:42  <andythenorth_> or in case of (e.g.) bulldozers, which might be restricted to (e.g.) trails... competitor can upgrade trail to highway, blocking my vehicles?
19:11:36  <planetmaker> a competitor can't change your roads. Same as he can't change your rails
19:11:45  <planetmaker> public roads... depends, I guess
19:11:50  <planetmaker> or maybe not at all
19:12:29  <Terkhen> but you can use roads of other companies, and use this to screw those that are using yours
19:12:40  <planetmaker> :-)
19:12:57  <planetmaker> sending zillions of traffic-jam generators?
19:13:06  <planetmaker> actually... two would suffice, if stopped
19:13:19  * Lakie ponders having a look at this nml thing
19:13:23  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r20932 /trunk/src/dock_gui.cpp: -Add [FS#4153]: Highlight all destination tiles when building a lock. (uni657)
19:14:17  <planetmaker> nice :-)
19:15:00  * avdg wonders how that feature will look like
19:16:12  <dihedral> \o/
19:16:36  <avdg> cool, looks nice
19:19:49  <Terkhen> it was a complicated commit message, I probably did a poor job describing it :P
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19:29:31  * Wolf01 sits
19:30:44  <dihedral> lol :-D
19:31:51  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20933 /trunk/src/network/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: move some more client related methods and such to network_client.cpp
19:32:17  <andythenorth_> so would players be able to upgrade town owned roads?
19:32:32  <planetmaker> who knows?
19:32:54  <Wolf01> why not?
19:33:06  <andythenorth_> griefing op
19:33:48  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20934 /trunk/src/network/ (4 files): -Codechange: move NetworkGetClientName to the server's socket
19:34:46  <dihedral> leave me some time to catch up will ya ? :-P
19:40:07  <Belugas> lol : "You are using too many constants in your code, it's disturbing to read"
19:40:21  <Belugas> yeh... just put magic numbers there...
19:40:28  <Belugas> it's MY code!
19:40:32  <Belugas> and it works!
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19:42:12  <dihedral> lol?
19:42:14  <frosch123> "const ONE = 1;" ?
19:42:25  <dihedral> :-D
19:42:42  <dihedral> seen that already, though with final static int TEN = 10;
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19:47:37  <Belugas> we have a lot of hardcoded values that i change, little by little, to const
19:47:41  <Belugas> the guys are just freaking out
19:47:57  <Belugas> but the program is more readable and more manageable too
19:48:12  <Belugas> but... that's not important... of course not :S
19:48:49  <dihedral> yes, i recall a time when we canged from ELEVEN clients to TWOHUNDERDANDFIFTYFIVE
19:49:53  <SpComb> HUNDERD
19:50:13  <dihedral> ops
19:50:19  <frosch123> SpComb: something like a dog
19:50:24  <SpComb> Belugas: hardcoded vs magic numbers!
19:50:59  *** lobstah [~michielbi@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:51:37  <Belugas> hardcoded or magic number, still the same
19:52:08  <Belugas> 'C01' vs kPAYTYPE_CASH
19:52:20  <Belugas> 0 vs kPRINT_POSINVOICE
19:52:33  <SpComb> static const int ... = ...; is still hardcoded :)
19:52:55  <SpComb> but this->foo * BAR isn't a magic number anymore!
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19:57:39  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20935 /trunk/src/network/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: only let the server side use a pool of connected sockets
19:58:46  <planetmaker> ^ now that sounds like a certain dihedral might like that :-)
19:59:05  <dihedral> that sounds like work :-P
19:59:15  <dihedral> i am still at 20930
19:59:38  <dihedral> Rubidium is doing that on purpose :-D
19:59:52  <dihedral> he did that with the move patch too :-P
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20:11:08  <Lakie> planetmaker: how'd you write an action2tilelayout using nml?
20:11:26  *** fonsinchen [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:12:11  <planetmaker> uh. Good question. But the Airports will probably have some, let me dig
20:13:07  <planetmaker> <-- that might contain what you look for
20:13:33  <Lakie> Cool, I'll have a look over it, thanks
20:13:58  <planetmaker> no problem. I haven't written industries / airports myself yet; what you see there is Yexo's doing
20:14:15  <Lakie> Ah
20:14:32  <planetmaker> I'm not 100% sure how far industry tile layouts are so far supported
20:14:32  <Lakie> Does it know the difference between the two forms?
20:14:42  <planetmaker> between which forms?
20:14:53  <Lakie> (Although its not really a huge important difference)
20:15:06  <Lakie> Oh, there are two forms of action2tilelayouts
20:15:09  <frosch123> you can save a byte or so :p
20:15:22  * andythenorth_ considers flying some metal across the map
20:15:30  <Lakie> Pretty much, there are some other differences
20:15:31  <Yexo> industry tile layouts are the same as airport tile layouts in nml, except for the rotation property
20:15:32  <planetmaker> I don't know, Lakie :-)
20:15:42  <Lakie> like one allows no ground sprite, the other allows no building sprite
20:15:48  <planetmaker> ^ there's the export on them
20:15:49  <Yexo> which is not supported for industry tile layouts and required for airport tile layouts
20:15:59  <Lakie> Thanks, Yexo
20:16:04  <Yexo> oh, not sure about that actually
20:16:19  <planetmaker> s/export/expert/ :-)
20:16:39  <planetmaker> typo which even make sense are the worst
20:16:54  <Lakie> hehe
20:17:28  <Yexo> Lakie: I only see one type here:
20:18:06  <Yexo> the special case (copy layout from another industry) is not supported, and I don't the the free land check is currently supported, but the latter is easy to add
20:18:10  <Lakie> I was thinking more of these,
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20:18:42  <Lakie> Mainly for writing a simple object
20:18:51  <Yexo> oh, that
20:18:57  <Yexo> IIRC Hirundo wrote that part
20:19:03  <Lakie> Heh, ok
20:19:10  <Yexo> personally I'm not sure on the syntax there
20:19:36  <Lakie> Ok, thanks anyway. :)
20:20:01  <planetmaker> ah :-) NewObjects?
20:20:13  <Eddi|zuHause> which is usually the anchor point for a rail wagon in |/–\ directions?
20:20:29  <Lakie> Yes,
20:20:44  <frosch123> [22:17] <Lakie> like one allows no ground sprite, the other allows no building sprite <- the second format is a superset of the first one. there is no point in using the first one
20:20:44  <Lakie> Already wrote quite a number in nfo
20:21:00  <planetmaker> :-)
20:21:01  <Lakie> True,
20:21:09  <planetmaker> Having an example in NML will be awesome
20:21:21  <planetmaker> We'd like to have it, too, as a regression check for NML
20:21:29  <Lakie> To  be honest, it makes little difference to me.
20:21:38  <planetmaker> :-)
20:21:47  <Lakie> spam bin has an nfo one which I'm cloning
20:21:55  <planetmaker> It's no difference, if one knows NFO :-)
20:22:15  <Lakie> True
20:22:23  <planetmaker> But as I wrote, it's - at least for me - easier to understand my own code when I come back to it much later, like weeks or months
20:22:47  <planetmaker> and I like to use png graphics :-)
20:22:53  <Yexo> I think where nml will shine most is when newgrf airports are supported, mostly because of the very complex varaction2 chains
20:23:01  <Lakie> Thats a nicity
20:23:12  <Lakie> converting to and from pcx isn't so convient
20:23:22  <Yexo> computations in nfo in advanced varaction2 chains are not easy to read
20:23:45  <Yexo> the png support is nice, but that is something that grfcodec could in theory support too
20:23:49  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20936 /trunk/src/network/ (4 files): -Codechange: make server side packet sending methods class methods
20:24:11  <Lakie> It could but Oskar was always against it, Yexo, iirc
20:24:22  <Lakie> Didn't see the gain woth increased filesize or something
20:27:42  <Yexo> planetmaker: do you have some graphics I could use to write an example nml file for houses?
20:28:38  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20937 /trunk/src/network/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: move some variables from client/server to server only
20:29:01  <planetmaker> Yexo: not directly. You could prey on the comic_houses or on OpenGFX
20:29:15  *** andythenorth_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:29:24  <planetmaker> comic_houses have nicer templatable graphics
20:29:42  <dihedral> now that you are a dev i could think of a project for you :-P
20:29:50  <dihedral> one you just mentioned :-D
20:35:13  <Belugas> now that he is a dev, he's above that kind of behaviour :P
20:35:22  <Belugas> buwhahahahahaha
20:36:00  *** Chris_Booth [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:36:26  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
20:36:46  <Eddi|zuHause> so... can i create an nml string without having a separate .lng file? [for quick testing purposes]
20:37:00  <Yexo> no
20:37:09  <planetmaker> you need one language file
20:37:12  <planetmaker> at least
20:37:23  <Lakie> yeah
20:37:24  *** De_Ghosty [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:37:28  <planetmaker> well. Or you can use "blbuber" directly?
20:37:34  <Yexo> no
20:37:37  <Eddi|zuHause> apparently i can'T
20:37:45  <planetmaker> ok :-)
20:38:19  <Eddi|zuHause> nmlc: "input", line 1: A GRF-block requires the 'name', 'desc', 'grfid', and 'version' properties to be set. <-- the "version" part is not in the reference.html
20:38:45  * peter1138 plays with his orga
20:38:47  <peter1138> n
20:39:09  <Eddi|zuHause> eww... keep that private.
20:39:12  <dihedral> i don't even wanna know!!
20:40:02  * Belugas will listen to the sound of the manipulation of that organ
20:40:23  <dihedral> that is sick!
20:40:29  <Belugas> no...
20:40:32  <Belugas> mu
20:40:42  <Belugas> lol
20:40:44  <Belugas> musick
20:40:48  <Belugas> rofl
20:41:53  <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: it is now
20:42:34  <planetmaker> gah. you're faster
20:42:49  <planetmaker> :-)
20:43:00  <Yexo> :p
20:44:21  <Zuu> Nice planetmaker :-)
20:45:21  <planetmaker> moin Zuu :-)
20:45:44  <Zuu> So now I've slept at a devs house :-p
20:47:13  <planetmaker> :-P
20:47:14  <frosch123> maybe all partipicants of that party need to become devs till r30000 :p
20:47:22  <planetmaker> :-D
20:47:28  <Zuu> :-)
20:47:55  <Zuu> Including our special guest from Denmark?
20:49:03  <planetmaker> look down ;-)
20:49:45  <Zuu> down?
20:50:10  <Zuu> I see a plate of eaten ice cream
20:51:37  <planetmaker> :-)
20:52:04  <planetmaker> just saying that he's in the channel :-)
20:52:25  <Zuu> Oh, :-)
20:52:57  <planetmaker> given your nick, I should have said rather 'look up' - but... that'd be true for any nick then ;-)
20:53:24  <planetmaker> (I have alphabetical sorting)
20:53:29  * Zuu too
20:53:29  <Lakie> Yexo: how'd one get round this (I don't mind add code), "Sprite blocks are not supported for this feature: 0x0F"?
20:53:46  <Lakie> adding code to the python source files*
20:54:49  <Yexo> nml/actions/
20:55:06  <Yexo> 0x0F is objects?
20:55:10  <Lakie> yup
20:55:13  <Zuu> Anyhow if he'd come up with contributions that will make him a candidate I wouldn't mind that. After all OpenTTD is based on contributions from people. :-)
20:56:32  <planetmaker> much so :-)
20:56:46  <Belugas> by the people for the people
20:56:49  <Belugas> hem...
20:56:51  <Belugas> whatever
20:57:17  <planetmaker> :-)
20:57:25  <Yexo> Lakie: fixed, just pull the last nml version
20:57:27  <planetmaker> sounds communistic ;-)
20:57:37  <Lakie> Cool, thanks
20:58:02  <Lakie> Oh, that reminds me
20:58:13  <Belugas> sounds like a crazy old fool who just needs to go home
20:58:19  <Belugas> which i'll do now
20:58:23  <Belugas> by all!
20:58:56  <planetmaker> good night & weekend, Belugas
20:58:58  <Lakie> Bye Belugas
20:59:12  <Lakie> Yexo, you may want to add these, ?
20:59:28  <Lakie> minus the typos in 0x60's
21:01:34  <Lakie> Although, I'll go clean them up a little
21:01:43  <Lakie> Should I provide a name for each 'chunk'?
21:01:45  <Zuu> Bye Belugas
21:02:03  <planetmaker> chunk as 0x40+ and 0x60+?
21:02:07  <Yexo> the 60x vars should be split and in a separate array
21:02:10  <Lakie> var40 for example is xyXXYY, thus 4 possible chunks
21:02:11  <planetmaker> Other features seem to have separate ones
21:02:12  <Lakie> Ah, ok
21:02:14  <Yexo> like for vehicles
21:02:39  <Yexo> if x is the lower byte of XX I'd say use two chunks, XX and YY (x and y are not needed)
21:03:05  <Yexo> hmm, industries seems to use one chunk for that
21:03:06  <planetmaker> Lakie: I'd not call them get_xxx
21:03:35  <Lakie> Well, I tend to use the highest bit, xy as one chunk
21:03:54  <Lakie> rather than xxyy
21:04:34  <Lakie> But I presume its to make accessing information easier
21:04:58  <Yexo> industries also uses one variables for xyXXYY
21:05:05  <Yexo> so it's ok
21:05:13  <Lakie> Okies
21:05:22  <Yexo> not sure what is best, I guess most of the time xy is sufficient (and as such easiest to use)
21:05:44  <Yexo> planetmaker: agreed, but what would be better names. xxx_nearby_tile like for industries?
21:06:55  <planetmaker> would that be more consistent?
21:07:07  <planetmaker> seems like...
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21:09:14  <Lakie> Well, with respect to the action0, I'd drop the _factor from build/remove_cost, but thats only 'cause I prefer less typing. :D
21:09:40  <Rubidium> then write GRF directly :)
21:09:46  <Lakie> Heh
21:09:56  <Lakie> More work writing a full grf than nfo. ;)
21:10:01  <Lakie> more bytes
21:10:09  <__ln__> Why is the fullscreen mode such a pain on Windows?
21:10:10  <Lakie> raw*
21:10:12  <Rubidium> although, if you're really brave... lzma2 compressed GRF
21:10:34  <Lakie> Heh
21:10:53  <planetmaker> Lakie: I meanwhile tend to prefer the longer, better descriptive name
21:10:54  <Lakie> Well, planetmaker and Yexo, I don't mind the names for them being changed
21:11:08  <planetmaker> And it actually is not cost, it's "just" a factor to some base cost...
21:11:18  <Lakie> True,
21:11:33  <planetmaker> such easier for new authors :-)
21:11:46  <planetmaker> and a reminder for the dinosaurs ;-)
21:13:11  <Lakie> Well, yes. As I said I'm generally not found of long names, like "thisfunctionaddxandythendoesfoo(const int & x, const int &y)", I prefer "addfoo(const int & x, const int &y)", mainly laziness I guess though
21:13:44  <Lakie> But it is simplier if you know what it does
21:14:23  <planetmaker> no doubt :-)
21:14:54  <Wolf01> 'nighty night
21:14:58  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
21:16:22  <Zuu> A function, and having arguments, local variables etc. - what a luxury! :-)
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21:17:20  <Eddi|zuHause> Lakie: the advantage of short functionnames diminishes if you have a sensible autocompletition in your editor
21:17:33  <Lakie> That is true
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21:18:11  <Lakie> Also, Yexo, I suspect you may need to enable objects in action2layouts?
21:19:00  <Yexo> quite likely, I haven't seriously looked at objects support before
21:19:15  <Lakie> Sorry,
21:19:28  <Lakie> I thought I should look at nml whilst writing my tutorial
21:20:17  <Lakie> And attempt to offer examples and hows tos in both languages
21:20:28  <planetmaker> maybe you can create a patch or patches for support? :-)
21:20:40  <Yexo> no, it's fine :)
21:20:55  <Yexo> gives an extra incentive to support objects properly
21:21:00  <planetmaker> :-)
21:22:01  <Yexo> but that's not for today (nor tomorrow) unless planetmaker wants to code it
21:22:11  <dihedral> hehe
21:22:34  <Yexo> Lakie: if you only provide some nfo examples I'd be more than happy to convert them to nml (and code support where needed)
21:22:48  <Yexo> for now, good night everyone
21:23:00  <Zuu> night Yexo
21:23:04  <Lakie> Okies, night Yexo
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21:24:36  <__ln__> glx: Could the fullscreen mode be implemented in a way that doesn't make the user regret he pressed Alt-Enter?
21:24:37  <planetmaker> sleep sounds like a very good thing, so I guess before tomorrow unfortunately not
21:25:20  <Zuu> Hmm, the hover tooltips are on by default now right? Line 322 in the readme in trunk say that they show up if you right click.
21:25:31  <planetmaker> but I'm all with yexo there: this gives incentive to look at it. And it's most easy found what's need when there's a grf...
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21:26:40  <Zuu> If the signal GUI is enabled by default, I'd sugest to change the example on line 318, 319 to something else.
21:27:08  <Zuu> Eg, full pay off loans.
21:27:19  <Terkhen> Zuu: you are right, line 322 is now wrong
21:27:20  <Lakie> Can I decompile the grf into nml, planetmaker?
21:27:34  <planetmaker> unfortunately not, Lakie
21:27:38  <planetmaker> only vice versa
21:27:39  <Lakie> :(
21:27:49  <Lakie> Shame, could have been useful
21:27:51  <planetmaker> you can compile NML into nfo or grf
21:27:54  <Lakie> It'd write the nml for me
21:27:57  <Lakie> ;)
21:28:05  <planetmaker> yes, it'd be tremendously useful
21:28:24  <planetmaker> you know... *someone* ;-)
21:28:33  <Lakie> How would I use a string, as a string id?
21:28:45  <Lakie> (For action0)
21:29:56  <planetmaker> name: string(STR_MY_OBJECT_NAME)
21:30:06  <Terkhen> Zuu: can you please file a bug report listing the parts that are wrong? I'd rather not correct the readme when I'm already a bit sleepy :)
21:30:08  <planetmaker> and have STR_MY_OBJECT_NAME in the lang file
21:30:18  <dihedral> has no member named ‘index’ <- grrr :-P
21:30:20  <Zuu> Terkhen: Sure
21:30:25  <Terkhen> thank you
21:30:31  <Lakie> Hmm. told me the property we too large.
21:30:39  <planetmaker> eh?
21:30:50  <planetmaker> that doesn't refer to the string, does it?
21:30:59  <planetmaker> but to some other...
21:31:49  <Lakie> Probably doing it wrong
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21:32:24  <planetmaker> Lakie: it usually checks whether the value you give fits the property in action0
21:32:44  <Lakie> Well, that makes sense
21:33:13  <planetmaker> got a paste of your NML code?
21:33:31  <Lakie> Could be the size area?
21:33:55  <Lakie>
21:34:10  <Lakie> All these mistakes from learning...
21:34:27  <Lakie> (I renamed a few things to be more convient for me...)
21:34:45  <Lakie> name is comething quite different, like build_window_caption or something
21:36:15  <Lakie> Personally I'd prefer name or objectname
21:37:38  <Lakie> Ah, its the size field
21:37:47  <Zuu> Terkhen: There you are @ FS#4163
21:41:02  <planetmaker> yes, the size field
21:41:31  <__ln__> Eh, the Build Depot tool doesn't deactivate after building a depot anymore. Why?
21:42:20  <planetmaker> I should off to bed, too. So good night folks :-)
21:42:32  <Lakie> Night planetmaker.
21:42:35  <planetmaker> Lakie: if you run into problems and questions: please store them :-)
21:42:47  <Lakie> Sure,
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21:54:46  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20938 /trunk/ (9 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: make the code for listening on a socket (more) reusable
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21:59:11  *** Zuu [~Zuu@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:59:52  <__ln__> Terkhen: I found three errors/typos in spanish.txt...
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22:07:37  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20939 /trunk/src/ (cheat_gui.cpp network/core/tcp.cpp): -Fix: some MSVC warnings
22:08:43  <Terkhen> Zuu: thank you
22:09:03  <Terkhen> __ln__: please post them at the spanish translation thread
22:09:05  <Terkhen> good night
22:10:05  *** IPG [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.10/20100914125854]]
22:13:44  <__ln__> Terkhen: I don't have an account on the forum; but just in case: all the errors can be found by searching case-insensitively for ":si" in the .txt.
22:13:54  <__ln__> and good night
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22:34:17  <TrueBrain> tralalal
22:35:05  <Rubidium> Lakie: how hard would it be for TTDP to add information about the reason why an industry callback (28, 2F) is called (somewhat like var18 in cb22)
22:35:38  <Lakie> I'm unsure?
22:35:38  <Rubidium> for 28 and 2F it would be the values from cb22 with another value for "prospected"
22:36:07  <Lakie> I presume you could move a value in, it depends on how Csboka coded it
22:37:09  <TrueBrain> Yexo: is there something wrong with your alphabet? 'p' before 'b'?
22:38:26  * Rubidium agrees with TrueBrain that the order is broken
22:38:47  <TrueBrain> I am really amused Yexo managed to make 2 mistakes in 1 patch consisted of adding 2 lines :D
22:39:00  <Lakie> Heh
22:40:39  <Lakie> The only time I see cb2F in the code is setindustrylayout
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22:41:22  <Rubidium> that sounds about right
22:42:38  <SmatZ> hahaha :) nice way of walking around EU restrictions :)
22:42:40  <Lakie> I don't see any information in that functions header which could indicate how it got therre...
22:43:22  <SmatZ> selling (now forbidden) bulbs as "heatballs" :)
22:45:22  <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: well, when 95% of the engergy is released as heat, they're way better suited for heating anyway :p
22:45:51  *** avdg [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:45:54  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, that's the idea :)
22:45:59  *** avdg [] has joined #openttd
22:47:35  <Rubidium> Lakie: hmm, so it's very unlikely it can be implemented with a "few" minutes work. Too bad :(
22:47:44  <Lakie> Sorry. :(
22:47:58  <Lakie> From what I gather it hooks into ttd's code
22:48:11  <GhostlyDeath> heh
22:48:18  <GhostlyDeath> Ein HEATBALL ist keine Lampe
22:48:28  <GhostlyDeath> What is a Kine Lamp?
22:49:47  <Rubidium> I did somewhat expect it, as I had to pass some information through quite a number of methods
22:49:53  *** [twisti] [] has joined #openttd
22:49:56  <[twisti]> hi
22:50:08  <Eddi|zuHause> GhostlyDeath: it means "not a lamp"
22:50:35  <[twisti]> im curious, what is the goal of TTD ? it seems like it only takes a few minutes to get positive cash flow, so is there any larger goal ?
22:50:38  <Lakie> Heh
22:50:50  <GhostlyDeath> [twisti]: To monopolize
22:51:00  <GhostlyDeath> Within country boundries
22:51:25  <GhostlyDeath> To survive until 2050 and become a multi trilionair
22:51:26  <Rubidium> [twisti]: depends on what you want; "1000 performance rating in 2050" is the default, but you can come up with countless others
22:52:07  <[twisti]> what is performance rating ?
22:52:08  <Rubidium> like connect everything, all station ratings above X, all industry ratings above X, make a realistic network
22:52:57  <Eddi|zuHause> [twisti]: things like "connect all industries", or "get all industries to maximum production" [2000-ish for primary industries, 20000-ish for secondary], "build a passenger network" or similar
22:53:00  <[twisti]> ah, that sounds a bit more challenging than "make money"
22:54:02  <[twisti]> ive got another question, i saw super complicated signs patterns in the wiki, what are those really used for ? isnt it generally the case that you have a train that just goes between, say, a coal mine and a power plant back and forth ?
22:55:23  * Rubidium is off to dreamland
22:55:50  <avdg> gn rubidium
22:56:56  <XeryusTC> hmm
22:57:02  <XeryusTC> bananas is very useful indeed
22:57:08  <XeryusTC> File:	A pack should contain only one type.
22:58:16  <XeryusTC> which is what i get when i try to upload the zip from
22:58:26  <XeryusTC> (but with .htm renamed to .html)
23:00:55  <TrueBrain> don't mix grfs with ais :p
23:02:16  <Eddi|zuHause> [twisti]: you usually have two trains, so while one is moving, the other one loads at the station. and when the distances get longer or the production higher, you need even more
23:02:54  <Eddi|zuHause> [twisti]: and when you then have a factory that gets cargo from 10 steel mills and 20 farms, you need serious track layouts to get enough trains going
23:02:58  <[twisti]> but the general pattern a-b-a-b... holds, you generally dont use trains to go from a to b to c to d etc ?
23:03:27  <Eddi|zuHause> [twisti]: for cargo, probably not, for passengers it might differ
23:03:39  *** KouDy [~KouDy@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
23:03:59  <[twisti]> and i didnt know factories could handle that much input, most games employ some sort of '1 bakery handles 2 mills, each mill handles 2 farms" sort of pattern
23:04:25  <[twisti]> oh yeah, i suppose so, passengers dont seem to care where you 'ship' them ;)
23:04:25  *** avdg [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:04:35  <[twisti]> oddly enough neither does mail
23:04:40  <Eddi|zuHause> [twisti]: well, that might be changed in the future
23:04:50  <Eddi|zuHause> but ... it's complicated
23:05:25  <[twisti]> being a programmer myself i can imagine
23:05:35  *** avdg [] has joined #openttd
23:06:39  <Eddi|zuHause> [twisti]: search for "cargodist", if you want passengers and mail to have half a brain
23:06:49  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a development version
23:06:55  <[twisti]> i think id rather not for my first serious game
23:07:14  <[twisti]> and i dont have much time to play ttd, i just enjoy a game where i can build something up over weeks
23:07:24  <Eddi|zuHause> it might make it into the next version within half a year, or maybe not.
23:07:28  <[twisti]> so ill probably start with the biggest map and most opponents
23:07:47  <Eddi|zuHause> i tend to play without opponents
23:07:53  <[twisti]> thatd be boring
23:08:02  <Eddi|zuHause> by far not :p
23:08:15  <[twisti]> one of the main reasons i stopped playing minecraft for the time being :(
23:14:36  *** Fast2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:17:50  <[twisti]> hm, how do i set it to have other players when i start a new game ?
23:18:20  <Eddi|zuHause> in the difficulty settings
23:18:36  <Eddi|zuHause> the players don't start immediately
23:18:56  <Eddi|zuHause> they need time to figure out where to start
23:19:07  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and you need to download AI personalities first
23:19:18  <Eddi|zuHause> they are not delivered with the game
23:19:22  <[twisti]> i dont seem to have difficulties
23:19:37  <[twisti]> oh nm
23:19:40  <[twisti]> i see it, my bad
23:20:34  <[twisti]> any recommendations as far as AI choices go ? pretty much total ttd noob here, but been playing computer games for 20 years
23:24:41  <[twisti]> i very much like how refined openTTD is
23:24:56  <[twisti]> i dont think ive ever seen a plugin/mod system so well polished
23:26:04  <[twisti]> hoooly crap, huge map is HUGE
23:30:21  *** Devroush [] has quit []
23:30:52  <theholyduck> well, playing with ai is booring
23:30:57  <theholyduck> find some online games
23:31:07  <theholyduck> easier to get good(and bad) advice there
23:31:24  <[twisti]> i like to be able to schedule my play time without having to consider other people
23:33:30  <theholyduck> well, just join a random multiplayer game
23:33:37  <theholyduck> there is like, sevral hundred of them
23:34:01  <[twisti]> no, i mean
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23:34:06  <[twisti]> i like to do stuff like
23:34:15  <[twisti]> build a train connection
23:34:20  <[twisti]> then pause while i read the wiki
23:34:24  <[twisti]> or watch tv
23:34:34  <[twisti]> that would probably be annoying to other people
23:34:41  <[twisti]> and i like to get back to my game tomorrow
23:34:57  <theholyduck> heh :p
23:35:22  *** Oolan [] has joined #openttd
23:35:25  <Oolan> Hi
23:35:44  <Oolan> I'm getting a network unsynchronised error
23:36:00  <Oolan> for many different servers (I have yet to connect succesfully to one)
23:36:19  <Oolan> I'm running 1.04 on Ubuntu 'Lucid'
23:36:55  <avdg> oolan: stable?
23:37:42  <Oolan> yep
23:38:04  *** Adambean [] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing]
23:38:08  <Chris_Booth> Oolan: how stable is your network?
23:38:17  <Oolan> the debug message in console is:
23:38:18  <Oolan> dbg: [net] getaddrinfo for hostname "", port 0, address family either IPv4 or IPv6 and socket type udp failed: Address family for hostname not supported dbg: [net] Sync error detected!
23:38:21  <Oolan> Pretty stable
23:38:28  <avdg> Chris_Booth: I have also a lot of disconnects on stable
23:38:29  <Oolan> ADSL, relatively low latency, never had any other problems
23:38:38  <avdg> never figured what causes it
23:39:14  <Chris_Booth> hhhm strange the win64 version seems to work fine for me
23:39:24  <Chris_Booth> but they are different platforms
23:39:31  <Oolan> yep, completely different
23:39:39  *** Fuco [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:39:42  <[twisti]> well thanks for all the help, im off to bed
23:39:52  <Chris_Booth> night
23:40:12  *** [twisti] [] has quit []
23:41:07  <avdg> oolan: the only good way to catch bugs is by reproducing them, and all attemps I tried failed so far
23:41:27  <avdg> but if you got something, feel free to submit a bugreport
23:41:32  <Oolan> I don't really know how to use a debugger
23:41:47  <Oolan> but thanks anyway
23:41:48  <avdg> I don't use them :p
23:41:50  <Chris_Booth> Oolan: you don't use a debuger
23:42:05  <Chris_Booth> you report it on fly spray
23:42:09  <Oolan> ok
23:42:23  <Chris_Booth> and someone may tell you the answer or try and fix it for you
23:42:31  <Oolan> will do that then
23:42:34  <Oolan> thanks for your help
23:42:40  <Chris_Booth>
23:42:42  <avdg> I am only hoping that the trunk has a lot of fixes, so these would be available in 1.1.0
23:42:57  <avdg> not all fixes are backported to the stables
23:43:59  <avdg> you know, bugfix releases 1.0.1, 1.0.2, etc...
23:44:13  <Oolan> I'll try the nightly build also
23:44:34  <avdg> yeah, but thats hard when no1 is using them :p
23:45:44  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:45:45  <Chris_Booth> there is 1 nightly server @ openttdcoop
23:46:02  *** Biolunar [] has quit [Quit: gn8]
23:46:04  <Chris_Booth> doesn dihedral run his autonightly?
23:46:11  <avdg> not anymore I bet
23:46:16  <Oolan> openttdcoop: http server?
23:46:19  <avdg> I can't find any nightly now
23:46:44  <avdg> oolan: join #openttdcoop :p
23:47:04  *** dfox [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:47:48  <Oolan> not quite sure how to in this applet client
23:47:59  <avdg> just click on it
23:48:05  <avdg> works on many clients
23:48:13  <Oolan> there
23:48:13  <Oolan> thanks
23:48:16  *** Oolan [] has left #openttd []
23:48:31  <avdg> uh? :p
23:51:00  *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3]
23:51:07  <Chris_Booth> uh? what avdg?
23:51:21  <avdg> he left
23:51:56  <Chris_Booth> he join openttdcoop
23:52:22  <Chris_Booth> I wonder if I would be welcome back there ever
23:54:04  <avdg> donno
23:55:34  <Chris_Booth> I bet I won't be for at least 200 years
23:57:09  *** Joni- [~Joni-@] has joined #openttd

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