Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:30 <xiong> Hi, guys. 00:10:10 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:13:59 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 00:14:36 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.22.66.123] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 00:16:13 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 00:21:32 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:25:56 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 00:32:07 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:37:37 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:45:00 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 00:54:10 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-180-148.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:55:33 <enr1x> good night guys 00:57:09 *** enr1x [~kiike@230.227.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:58:02 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd 01:03:09 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 01:10:31 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:11:03 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:23:40 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:30:39 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 01:38:01 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:08:45 *** fjb is now known as Guest84 02:08:46 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFF712.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:11:08 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 02:12:39 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-16-114-12.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 02:15:29 *** Guest84 [~frank@p5DDFE76F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:21:38 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:9116:6c2e:6ae3:c53b] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:37:08 *** avdg [~avdg@94-227-100-192.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:38:57 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:58:45 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 03:16:24 *** Mortomes [~mortomes@i15108.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:16:35 *** Yexo [~Yexo@153-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:16:54 *** Yexo [~Yexo@153-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 03:17:14 *** Mortomes [~mortomes@i15108.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 03:20:26 *** lasershock [lasershock@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:20:55 <xiong> Foo. 03:42:54 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFF712.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:43:39 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: more listen, more understand, more know] 03:44:46 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 04:00:58 *** lasershock [lasershock@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 04:12:05 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 04:19:16 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:48:28 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8cf37.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:54:03 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73D4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:54:19 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74940.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:00:47 *** zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:04:48 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 05:09:51 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:15:06 *** davis [~b@p5B28BFBB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:23:51 *** zodttd2 [~me@user-0c90n12.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:41:29 *** _Terkhen_ [~Terkhen@130.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 05:41:38 <_Terkhen_> good morning 05:52:19 *** Mortomes [~mortomes@i15108.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:56:43 *** azaghal [~azaghal@109.207.46.250] has joined #openttd 06:12:12 *** kenneth [kenneth@cpc1-nrte13-0-0-cust531.8-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:13:16 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0b8955.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:19:08 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f721707.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 06:20:41 *** kenneth [kenneth@cpc1-nrte13-0-0-cust531.8-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:23:07 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe83de00-38.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 06:26:39 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 06:32:32 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 06:33:50 <__ln__> good news everyone, Steve has introduced the new Mac OS X Lion. 06:34:52 <peter1138> how much does that bug fix cost? 06:35:17 <__ln__> no idea 06:36:25 <_Terkhen_> IIRC the last one costed about 30⬠or 40⬠06:36:37 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:40:05 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:46:27 <planetmaker> moin 06:47:10 <planetmaker> apple ships SnowLeopard for $US 29 06:47:42 <__ln__> the upgrade from Leopard 06:47:50 <planetmaker> full version 06:47:53 <__ln__> oh 06:48:05 <planetmaker> there's no upgrade-only media 06:49:06 <planetmaker> actually when I bought it here they said it'd be that. But it isn't 06:49:54 <__ln__> buying upgrade and using it as full can still be against license terms. 06:51:04 <planetmaker> I know. I didn't say I don't use it as an upgrade 06:51:14 <planetmaker> But it installed just fine on a clean HD 06:51:27 <planetmaker> and it's meant to 06:52:49 <planetmaker> (I generally upgrade any OS by a clean install on a new HD only) 06:54:40 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC234A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:56:11 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:04:27 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:05:44 *** Mortomes|Work [~MortomesW@mail.qps.nl] has joined #openttd 07:06:03 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:06:52 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f721707.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:08:40 *** Lurimax [~quassel@68.59.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd 07:08:57 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 07:09:07 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-68-183-253-30.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:10:17 <Keiya_> planetmaker, there's no full version of OS X 07:10:20 <Keiya_> At all. 07:10:49 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice4n2.emea.ibm.com] has joined #openttd 07:13:45 *** IPG [~chatzilla@dhcp-82.st.wlan.bme.hu] has joined #openttd 07:16:35 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:23:19 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has joined #openttd 07:23:33 <planetmaker> if you think so, Keiya_ 07:23:41 <planetmaker> I won't waste effort to argue 07:23:56 <Keiya_> Well actually there is. It's just you can only get it by buying a full system. 07:24:07 <Keiya_> The disks can do clean installs, but they're still upgrade versions 07:24:11 <planetmaker> as I stated above: untrue 07:24:16 <Keiya_> It's one of the things I hate about apple >_> 07:24:36 *** Lurimax [~quassel@68.59.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:24:40 <planetmaker> You can buy a HDD off the shelf in the shop next door and install it on there 07:25:05 <planetmaker> obviously you're also one of those people who know all about why apple sucks but never use it 07:25:05 <Keiya_> Right. It can do clean installs, I just said that 07:25:18 <Keiya_> I've /done/ clean installs of OS X. 07:25:39 <Keiya_> It's just that legally, it's still an upgrade version. It just doesn't care how badly you trashed your previous install :P 07:26:07 <Keiya_> (IE, dropped the hard drive in a lake. I'm not joking, that actually happened to a friend of mine. 07:26:20 <planetmaker> shit happens 07:28:49 <Keiya_> Well, a thousand thousand thousand years from now when humanity is dead and gone alien archeolgists can go wtf over it :P 07:29:05 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:31:15 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 07:34:45 <peter1138> I prefer my upgrades free. 07:35:18 <planetmaker> :-) 07:37:11 <Keiya_> The only mac I have doesn't run any version of OS X with decent speed (it's old...) so I have debian on it instead :P 07:37:38 <Keiya_> It doesn't help I lost most of the disks for 10.3 07:38:34 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 07:45:24 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:52:01 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has joined #openttd 07:53:23 *** X-2 [~X-2@a83-163-133-37.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:57:15 *** ar3kaw [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has joined #openttd 07:57:16 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:57:16 *** ar3kaw is now known as ar3k 08:01:35 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:03:08 <dihedral> morning :-) 08:04:32 <dihedral> <__ln__> buying upgrade and using it as full can still be against license terms. <- not if you have the full license your upgrade license is bound to :-) 08:04:35 *** IPG [~chatzilla@dhcp-82.st.wlan.bme.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:18:10 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AACF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:38:28 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:53:38 *** Hirundo [~chatzilla@s5591716a.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 08:59:51 <__ln__> Rubidium: good news to you too, one new Mac OS X version to support next summer 09:03:29 <planetmaker> there is no support, __ln__ 09:03:58 <planetmaker> dihedral: I read it that way, that Kobi gave the name of one server he tried to join 09:04:00 <norbert79> If it's about MacOSX, I have just read a short summary about the changes in MacOs Lion: new launchpad, and Apple store 09:04:09 <planetmaker> yeah 09:04:24 <norbert79> Amazing, fascinating, wonderful 09:04:42 <norbert79> </sarcasm> 09:05:19 <_Terkhen_> did they finally fix the issues with 3D acceleration? 09:05:22 * planetmaker doesn't like that that concept either, if it's enforced 09:06:19 * planetmaker hardly uses 3D graphics ;-) 09:06:30 <dihedral> planetmaker, thanks - i somehow did not see that part of the post 09:06:33 <norbert79> Well, I once tried to find out why Mac's are so expensive... Well, it comes normally with 3Gb of ram, but 4GB costs you severeal hundred bucks more... Didn't know, that the memory factory segment in IT is in that deep recession 09:07:11 <planetmaker> that's where the money comes in. Much cheaper if you add the memory and bigger HDD yourself. Indeed 09:07:14 <norbert79> and I am still being told, that Macs are cheap... 09:07:31 <norbert79> planetmaker: But you cannot, since you are tied to license agreements 09:07:42 <planetmaker> There's no license for hardware 09:07:52 <dihedral> norbert79, planetmaker lives in germany :-) 09:07:54 <norbert79> planetmaker: But you lose at least the guarantee 09:07:55 <planetmaker> I own it. I may do withit what I like 09:07:58 <norbert79> dihedral: I know 09:07:59 <planetmaker> That I do 09:08:08 <dihedral> and germany says you may install mac software is not bound to mac hardware 09:08:14 <planetmaker> But you do that everywhere 09:08:15 <dihedral> eh - muddeld thoughs 09:08:20 <planetmaker> when you temper with it 09:08:26 <dihedral> you are not bound to mac hardware with the mac software 09:08:35 <norbert79> dihedral: Not everywhere, at least in Hungary, you are very bound to several agreements 09:08:52 <dihedral> norbert79, hence i refereed to germany ;-) 09:08:57 <planetmaker> :-) 09:09:03 <norbert79> dihedral: Even though unlocking iPhones was made legal, you automatically lose your guarantee here 09:09:25 <norbert79> Worse of it, if you buy the phone at T-Mobile you even ban youú 09:09:29 <norbert79> if they found out 09:09:32 <dihedral> in some cases i think germany has fun upsides - esp. with regards to software lisences :-D 09:09:58 <norbert79> yeah, I know, and not only with that 09:10:09 <norbert79> I just love german politicans when it comes to FPS games 09:10:20 <dihedral> pffft 09:10:32 <dihedral> nutters ^^ 09:10:35 <norbert79> Agreed 09:11:27 <norbert79> I can understand the part with WW2 related decisions, but I am lost in concept when it comes to a recent FPS, where the german version has some limits, got censored, etc 09:11:55 <norbert79> or they removed the realism effect by not allowing arms and legs to be ripped off 09:12:14 <norbert79> hey, you can still kill the character in the game, so whats the diofference? 09:12:20 <planetmaker> it's dangerous for the psychology of youths, you know. 09:12:23 <norbert79> lol 09:12:29 <planetmaker> They'd all run amok, if they see violence 09:12:40 <planetmaker> (that is honestly argued exactly that way! :-( ) 09:12:42 <norbert79> Yeah, right, thats why the Stasi 2.0, it's good for ya 09:13:04 <norbert79> too bad CCC got Herr SchÀuble's fingerprint :D 09:13:10 <planetmaker> :-) 09:13:15 <norbert79> Btw willkommen Herr SchÀuble 09:13:19 <planetmaker> well, he's not minister for internal affairs anymore 09:13:27 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 09:13:28 <norbert79> ooh, sorry, missed a few months 09:13:36 <planetmaker> one year :-D 09:13:42 <norbert79> thats a few months for me :D 09:13:46 <planetmaker> :-) 09:13:56 <planetmaker> I guess he's off the scene very soon anyway 09:14:01 <planetmaker> Been ill for weeks now 09:14:05 <norbert79> aaah 09:14:21 <planetmaker> though he's still treasurer 09:14:28 <norbert79> but as far as I see things, those regulations won't get cleared off very soon I guess, who wants let loose of total control? 09:14:48 <planetmaker> for sure they won't 09:14:57 <planetmaker> once installed, never to go 09:15:18 <__ln__> planetmaker: 12:05 <+planetmaker> there is no support, __ln__ <-- i know 09:15:21 <planetmaker> same with limiations to civil rights, like internet censorship blocks etc 09:15:33 <planetmaker> coming in disguise to prevent child abuse 09:15:35 <norbert79> planetmaker: Yeah, sucks, it definitally feels like DDR times 09:16:02 <norbert79> planetmaker: But back then it weas all in the name of sozialismus, now it's all about 'terror prevention' 09:16:05 <planetmaker> it was ruled illegal by the supreme court, still it is argued for over and over by the same people 09:16:06 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:16:18 <planetmaker> And I fear they'll finally succeed to install a censorship infrastructure 09:16:30 <planetmaker> And once in place it's easy to expand it to other topics of interest 09:16:37 <norbert79> Indeed 09:16:59 <planetmaker> yes 'terrorism' and 'security' are so nice catch-phrases. It's amazing how well they work :-( 09:17:07 <norbert79> I am damn sure that even I have old Stasi files on me and my father, becasue he went to the Fireman school in Magdeburg from 1979-1982 09:17:10 <planetmaker> planting fear in the heart of the enemy. It works 09:17:19 <planetmaker> he 09:17:29 <planetmaker> you have the right to look for it. 09:17:41 <norbert79> Yeah, wanted to do so, but that would cost me a trip to Berlin 09:17:47 <planetmaker> Just file a request and you'll be given the chance to look into the files 09:17:48 <norbert79> and I don't have the money for it 09:17:49 <dihedral> were they not considering sensorship via the dns servers? :-D 09:17:51 <planetmaker> yes indeed 09:18:04 <dihedral> that really cracked me up :-P 09:18:12 <dihedral> .... opendns? :-D 09:18:17 <norbert79> planetmaker: Yeah, I looked after the way how I can get to the files, I even have a prove of my--- (Impfungen) 09:18:39 <norbert79> planetmaker: So I can prove we lived there, also there is the certification of my father 09:19:32 <norbert79> We lived in the Braunschweiger Street in Magdeburg... On the first floor there was an old lady, who alwayxs looked for movement within the house.. Was creepy according to my mom :D 09:20:17 <norbert79> I still have an old 5 Mark DDR banknote from those times 09:20:55 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:21:12 <planetmaker> he :-) 09:22:00 <planetmaker> dihedral: just use a DNS from another country. No need for any change but your DNS. 09:22:12 <planetmaker> Just don't use your provider's ;-) 09:22:14 <norbert79> or you use Google's DNS, 8.8.8.8 09:22:17 <planetmaker> ^ 09:22:19 <planetmaker> for example 09:22:30 <norbert79> that works of course pretty well 09:22:46 <planetmaker> though google is meanwhile known to follow government restrictions... 09:22:58 <norbert79> crap... OpenDNS for ya then :) 09:24:46 <planetmaker> norbert79: did even then exist the "Hundertwasserhaus" in Magdeburg or is that newer? 09:25:27 <planetmaker> hm... newer 09:25:31 <norbert79> planetmaker: No idea, I was just born in 1979, so I only have a very few memories 09:25:39 <norbert79> we came back to Hungary in 1982 09:25:45 <dihedral> i refuse to use google dns ;-) 09:26:02 <planetmaker> oye. That's a bit ago :-) 09:26:07 <norbert79> planetmaker: Indeed :) 09:26:28 <planetmaker> http://www.gruene-zitadelle.de/deutsch/index.php?id=4 09:27:25 <norbert79> planetmaker: I once 'hugged' a coal heating system, and burned my wrists. My mom hurried with me to the hospital, and they didn't even touch me until they checked on my father's status through the former Volkspolizei... I was crying hours long till started my treatment. Luckily nothing is left from it on my wrists... 09:27:45 <planetmaker> outch 09:28:04 <norbert79> They were some strict times :) 09:28:10 <planetmaker> could be argued to be even against the oath of hippocrates 09:29:03 <norbert79> So thats why I am sure, that we must have at least 1 file on us, since we had no East German citizenship 09:29:12 <planetmaker> :-) 09:29:41 <norbert79> would be fun visiting Berlin once though :) 09:30:38 <planetmaker> changed A LOT 09:30:51 <planetmaker> I mean... it's nearly 30 years ;-) 09:31:18 <planetmaker> if you'd remember you'd not recognize it 09:37:10 *** norbert791 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice2n2.emea.ibm.com] has joined #openttd 09:39:14 <__ln__> the Lehrter railway station has been slightly enhanced and so on 09:40:05 <planetmaker> slightly 09:40:50 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice4n2.emea.ibm.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:56:56 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 09:59:25 *** Br33z4hSlut5 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norbert79 10:50:12 <norbert79> Back for a bit 10:51:57 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:53:35 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 10:53:37 *** George is now known as Guest119 10:53:41 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 10:58:46 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:00:05 *** Guest119 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:00:42 *** George is now known as Guest120 11:00:45 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 11:02:30 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:03:59 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 11:06:55 *** Guest120 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:14:32 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 11:21:30 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:31:59 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:33:12 *** asnoehu [~thok@524B7349.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 11:36:30 *** fanioz [~fanioz@180.214.233.8] has joined #openttd 11:37:09 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFC7D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:39:36 <fjb> Moin 11:40:54 <Rubidium> moi 11:49:27 *** asnoehu [~thok@524B7349.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:50:56 <fanioz> evening :) 11:54:19 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-16-114-12.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:04:06 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 12:05:59 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:d8b7:a3ca:42b:53a8] has joined #openttd 12:06:02 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:09:55 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-251-33.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 12:14:19 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Quit: AS A VAGINA ONCE SAID: <yorick> SOMEONE BAN HIM] 12:14:27 <fjb> You shall not mix ECC and nonECC RAM. 12:15:32 <SpComb> unless thy then continue counting to three 12:17:55 <Rubidium> I'd reckon that those would blend just fine when they're together 12:17:56 <fjb> It worked till I tried to boot. 12:18:49 <fjb> The timings also looked odd. 12:20:46 <SpComb> that's not very far 12:22:34 <fjb> But 2GB ECC RAM is still better than 1GB nonECC RAM. 12:35:36 *** asnoehu [~thok@524B7349.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 12:36:03 <dihedral> and is way more expensive :-P 12:37:35 <fjb> Not when you get it used. 12:38:09 <fjb> Old ECC RAM is less expensive because most mainboards can not use it. 12:40:24 <dihedral> most desktop mainboards ^^ 12:41:53 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host205-208-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 12:42:04 <Wolf01> hello 12:43:04 *** Uresu [~Wes@cpc1-shef1-0-0-cust392.barn.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:44:21 <dihedral> hello Wolf01 12:45:08 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 12:45:17 *** Uresu [~Wes@cpc1-shef1-0-0-cust392.barn.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:53:29 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 12:59:09 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:04:23 <Belugas> morning 13:10:03 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 13:13:28 <_Terkhen_> hello Belugas 13:13:59 <Belugas> hello _Terkhen_ :) 13:16:17 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm114.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 13:17:58 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-68-183-253-72.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 13:20:36 *** X-2 [~X-2@a83-163-133-37.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:26:39 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:29:14 <xiong> Duck... and co-ver! 13:29:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd like to propose a patch: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/vehicle_gui_refit_exception_limit.diff 13:33:35 <Belugas> mmh... 13:33:41 <Belugas> i don't understand it 13:33:46 <Belugas> so it must be a good patch 13:39:42 <norbert79> Afternoon everyone... Boy, this is one hectic day 13:41:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: it prevents the "Refittable to: <17 cargos>" line in the buy vehicle window switching to "Refittable to: All but <15 exceptions>" 13:41:50 <Eddi|zuHause> it limits the number of exceptions to 7. 13:42:30 <Eddi|zuHause> shouldn't make any difference for the default cargos, but when using industry sets, the list of exceptions is practically useless... 13:43:35 <planetmaker> indeed 13:43:40 <Belugas> yeah, planetmaker told me about it as well. Good job finding it 13:43:44 <Belugas> so... 13:44:15 <Eddi|zuHause> this litterally took 5 minutes of grepping ;) 13:44:19 * Belugas svn ups 13:44:23 <planetmaker> :-D 13:46:00 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 13:53:06 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has joined #openttd 13:53:17 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 14:01:07 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 14:01:54 <xiong> Eddi|zuHause, I approve. Good idea. 14:02:41 <xiong> Now, I have spent quite a bit of time working up disjoint stations catchment areas and I have no idea what to do with the work. 14:03:44 <xiong> It can't go in forum; there are 8 screenshots plus the savegame, which is 6 attachments more than the limit of 3. 14:04:06 <xiong> I don't know if any of it comes up to the standard of the wiki. 14:04:37 <xiong> (Not 8 full-size shots!) 14:04:40 <guru3> setup a webpage maybe? 14:04:46 <guru3> then post on the forums with a link to the webpage 14:05:17 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AFA4B2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 14:05:23 <xiong> I see little purpose in Xiong's Private Little OpenTTD World. 14:05:49 <guru3> indeed 14:05:57 <guru3> you just need a place to stick some info and a bunch of screenshots 14:06:00 <Eddi|zuHause> you know, if you make 3 posts, you can have 9 attachments... 14:06:04 <planetmaker> <xiong> It can't go in forum; there are 8 screenshots plus the savegame, which is 6 attachments more than the limit of 3. <-- make two consecutive postings 14:06:16 <planetmaker> or three 14:06:25 <planetmaker> If needed it's accepted 14:06:35 <xiong> Meh. I'm more comfortable with MediaWiki anyway. 14:06:53 <planetmaker> but the wiki is not suitable for discussion 14:07:01 <xiong> I'll make a subpage of my userpage. 14:07:11 <xiong> Eh? What are the talk pages for? 14:07:26 <guru3> talk was a typo, it was supposed to be stalk 14:07:39 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:07:50 <xiong> Um, I can testify, wikistalking is easy. Been there. 14:08:17 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFC7D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:08:25 <guru3> i maintain that the internet these days is meant for stalking 14:08:57 <Eddi|zuHause> guru3: have you been stalking us here, or do you just have a highlight on "3"? :p 14:09:00 <xiong> This is a gumption trap I fall into frequently, stalled at some point near the beginning or end of a project, trying to figure out either the best way to set it up or deploy it. 14:09:11 <guru3> well i really really like transport tycoon :) 14:09:24 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but you say something about once per year :p 14:09:24 * planetmaker prefers OpenTTD 14:09:28 <xiong> Really, it's the same trap: interface with the Old Heads. 14:09:41 <guru3> (and i have a hilight on guru... every time someone asks for a c guru, or a pathfinding guru i get the message) 14:09:49 <planetmaker> the UI improvements are somewhat really helping the enjoyment factor a log :-) 14:09:54 <dihedral> guru3, o/ 14:09:59 <guru3> o/ 14:10:09 <planetmaker> s/log/lot/ 14:10:12 <planetmaker> typo day it seems 14:10:26 <guru3> i know i don't speak frequently but i owe much to transport tycoon 14:10:32 <guru3> it's why i'm in civil engineering at al 14:10:34 <guru3> *after all 14:11:12 <planetmaker> hm... :-) I think I recall your name, too :-) 14:11:23 <planetmaker> From early, early PublicServer games, can that be? 14:11:26 <guru3> yeah 14:11:31 <guru3> i came along when multiplayer did 14:11:36 <planetmaker> :-) 14:11:39 <guru3> that was all i did that christmas 14:11:45 <guru3> play transport tycoon 14:11:48 <guru3> 0.3.5 and 0.3.6 14:11:58 <planetmaker> hehe 14:12:05 <guru3> i wrote the wiki page on connecting and stuff 14:12:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i presume that was one christmas earlier than i came here 14:12:43 <guru3> http://wiki.openttd.org/Image:Ottdmulti9.png 14:12:54 <guru3> good to see some of my original images are still up there 14:13:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the internet doesn't forget :p 14:13:59 <guru3> yup 14:14:38 <guru3> Feature: [Network] banning system (mostly tnx to guru3) A server can ban people via ClientList using 'ban', 'unban', 'banlist'. 14:14:44 <guru3> http://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTD_0.3.6 14:14:51 * guru3 remembers writing that patch 14:15:03 <planetmaker> :-) 14:15:42 <guru3> rcon as well, although it was a bit of a stretch for me 14:15:59 <Eddi|zuHause> you forgot writing the custom kickmessages patch :p 14:16:02 <planetmaker> he. And now there's even an (additional) admin bot interface ;-) 14:16:03 <guru3> probably my biggest junk of pure C work has been openttd patch stuff 14:16:13 <guru3> junk = xhunk 14:16:15 <guru3> *chunk 14:17:17 <guru3> actually the 0.3.6 patches i wrote are probably my only significant patches to a project >< 14:17:48 <planetmaker> you could change that :-P 14:18:09 <planetmaker> or you could finish the current PublicServer game :-P 14:18:12 *** fanioz [~fanioz@180.214.233.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:18:23 <norbert79> hmm, my first version of OpenTTD was afaik 0.4.7 or 0.4.5? 14:18:28 <norbert79> Can't recall anymore :) 14:18:40 <planetmaker> ^ something like that here, too 14:18:52 <planetmaker> Though I only really started playing OpenTTD around 0.5.3 14:19:09 <norbert79> I started at 0.4.7, I was so happy seeing my good old oldie alive again 14:19:15 <guru3> i'm not quite as motivated for coding these days as i once was 14:19:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure if i actually had 0.3.x, but i definitely remember downloading 0.4.0, and the next week it was already obsolete 14:19:35 *** _Terkhen_ [~Terkhen@130.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:19:37 <guru3> although if i was going to do something else for openttd i'd probably look at landscape generation 14:19:37 <planetmaker> :-P 14:19:50 <planetmaker> guru3, rivers! 14:19:54 <guru3> since ive been toying with that anyway off and on for the last 2 years 14:19:58 *** _Terkhen_ [~Terkhen@130.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 14:20:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't really play at that time, but later around r33xx or so i played nightlies 14:20:21 <norbert79> Well, I keep my balance between online cooperative playing in Hidden and Dangerous 2 Sabre Squadron and OpenTTD :) 14:20:32 <guru3> coop ftw o/ 14:20:36 <Eddi|zuHause> and i came here discussing lack of elrails and pbs bugs 14:20:52 <planetmaker> it's still around, guru3 ;-) 14:21:03 <guru3> yeah, way bigger than i ever expected it to turn out too 14:21:06 <planetmaker> and you're not even in that channel! :-P 14:21:30 *** davis [~b@p5B28BFBB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:21:38 <guru3> in some aspects ive sort of grown tired of transport tycoon 14:21:57 <guru3> it feels like i know what to do for almost every situation 14:22:08 <guru3> so that then i can't be bothered to actually do it 14:22:09 <planetmaker> but do you still? 14:22:15 <Eddi|zuHause> you haven't played cargodist yet ;) 14:22:18 <planetmaker> Many things changed in the last two or three years 14:22:44 *** holyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 14:22:44 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f721707.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:22:48 <guru3> i know somethings have changed 14:22:54 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f721707.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [] 14:23:00 <planetmaker> for example signaling ;-) 14:23:01 <guru3> but im just not good at sticking with something for a really long time 14:23:08 <guru3> i have to depart and come back to it later 14:23:28 <planetmaker> :-) 14:23:35 <guru3> but at heart i still love building single track trains :) 14:23:48 <norbert79> me too 14:23:49 <norbert79> :)) 14:23:51 <guru3> it's huge networks that start to drive me nuts 14:24:06 <guru3> gets too repetitive or something like that 14:24:32 <guru3> i shall return though, never fear 14:24:56 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f721707.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:25:00 <guru3> i certainly haven't given up the game for all tiem 14:25:06 <davis> I got pretty tired of playing ottd in singleplayer , but recently i tried out cargo dist. and it made it fun again *advertising voice* 14:25:14 <davis> but for all seriousness , it makes the game more fun 14:25:25 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7d0e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:26:14 <planetmaker> the problem really is to get it seamless into the existing game and to not break it 14:26:21 <planetmaker> quak! 14:26:22 <planetmaker> :-) 14:26:46 <frosch123> moin :) 14:27:22 *** fanioz [~fanioz@223.255.225.4] has joined #openttd 14:29:39 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:33:29 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFF78D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:34:41 *** avdg [~avdg@94-227-100-192.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:37:39 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 14:42:53 <planetmaker> what's a "shadow topic" when moving postings? 14:44:10 *** holyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:44:26 * Belugas has no clue 14:44:31 <Belugas> but Jordan stinks 14:44:44 <planetmaker> moved out of OpenTTD forums 14:45:44 <planetmaker> interestingly that were the only two reported ones ;-) 14:45:58 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 14:46:42 <Belugas> i counted 5 occurences, but when forum told me first already reported, i suspected the others were too 14:47:43 <planetmaker> hm, seems they are. They're just not indicated the same way as I'm not mod there 14:48:08 <xiong> Arggh. I just ran into the jargon trap. What word describes unit buildings, from openttd's viewpoint? I mean to say that a paper mill is a single unit; it must be built or destroyed as a unit. A station, commonly, is not a unit because individual tiles can be added or dozed. But an airport is a unit, because you cannot doze some of it without dozing the rest. 14:48:27 <planetmaker> multi-tile building 14:48:46 <xiong> Um, a single station tile fits my description of a unit. 14:49:22 <xiong> "building"? "unit building"? I'm not trying to create more jargon; I'd like to know what you all call this thing. 14:50:30 <xiong> A single house is a unit; so is a bank. One is one tile, the other is two tiles. "Tile" certainly is not the word I seek. 14:51:34 <Belugas> as far as i know, there's no specific word describing either a multi-tile building that can be destroyed as a unit (like industries/houses) or can be "dozed" piece by piece like a station 14:51:35 <xiong> I like "building" for this; it is precise. But the common notion of "building", as a noun, tends to have become separated from its meaning as a verb. 14:51:39 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:51:52 <Belugas> so... we have buildings and... stations 14:52:02 <Belugas> and industries 14:52:03 <planetmaker> and industries 14:52:04 <planetmaker> :-) 14:52:07 <Belugas> heheh 14:52:09 <planetmaker> and objects :-) 14:52:09 <xiong> Ah, but stations are also buildings. They are built. So are industries. 14:52:28 <Belugas> yes, but we neever refer to stations as buildings 14:52:30 <planetmaker> and airports which behave different to RV and rail stations 14:52:37 <planetmaker> indeed, we don't 14:52:42 <xiong> Would you like me to say object? Because I would think that would include such objects as trees, trains, and cargos. 14:53:01 <Belugas> staitons are stations, airports can be refered as station as well, but most of the time, they are airports as well 14:53:31 <xiong> How do airports 'behave' differently from road or rail stations? I mean, I'm talking about static entities, not about their gameplay dynamics. 14:53:37 <Belugas> objects are different, and usage is already defined 14:54:21 <planetmaker> xiong, you can't bulldoze an airport tile 14:54:23 <xiong> Okay, well then: What class of things meets my definition of objects that can be built or unbuilt as units? 14:54:23 <Belugas> airports canne be "dozed" in pieces, nor road stations, nor docs. only rail stations can 14:54:27 <planetmaker> Same as an industry tile 14:54:34 <planetmaker> you always destroy all or nothing of them 14:54:40 * Belugas nods 14:54:45 <xiong> planetmaker, That is what I said. An airport is a single building. 14:54:59 <planetmaker> yes 14:55:03 <Belugas> therfor uniqueness of behaviour while destruction is only for rail stations 14:55:04 <xiong> It is built all in one action; a single build-ing. 14:55:13 <planetmaker> Belugas, for road stations, too 14:55:29 <Belugas> mmmh? 14:55:41 <Belugas> that's more like merging stations, no? 14:55:49 <planetmaker> multi-tile road stations are easily done. And you can extend and modify them similar to rail stations 14:55:53 <planetmaker> Just no newgrf capability 14:56:37 <xiong> This fuzziness in jargon is what I'm trying to elimininate. One or more physical stations can comprise a single logical station. 14:57:13 <xiong> Said another way, a logical station can be a single physical station or a single combined station. 14:57:17 *** holyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 14:58:17 <xiong> And a physical station is a station that consists of a single building -- where "building" is the word of which I'm uncertain, since (even just here in chan) some want to exclude stations from that class of objects. 14:58:21 <planetmaker> You might clarify something which is easily explained by a few words, but where a single word will never be clear 14:58:53 *** Kitty_Away [go-there@188.247.74.45] has joined #openttd 14:58:58 <planetmaker> talking of 'logical' and 'physical' stations certainly wouldn't help _me_ to understand things 14:58:59 <Belugas> xiong, i think that there is no real fuziness. I think it's more related to you wanting to generalize concepts that are not meant to be generalized. Note that the exercise is not bad, it might lead to something constructive 14:59:00 <xiong> Um, matter of philosophy. A single term is always precise if it is precisely defined. 14:59:52 <xiong> Belugas, The fuzziness is between single, logical, combined, and physical stations. 15:00:03 <xiong> s/between/among/ 15:00:11 <planetmaker> I'd say those words are fuzzy 15:00:21 <xiong> That's why I'm sharpening them. 15:00:31 <planetmaker> but an airport is and airport is an airport 15:00:37 <planetmaker> which can be part of a station 15:00:44 <planetmaker> and a station can have many parts. 15:00:51 <planetmaker> For a rail station every tile is a separate part 15:00:54 <planetmaker> that's all :-) 15:01:24 <planetmaker> But I might see it too simplified. Who knows 15:03:19 <xiong> "station part" eq "physical station" 15:04:04 <xiong> I have no difficulty with aliases for common terms but I would like to establish relationships. I do object to terms whose meanings so overlap that distinctions are lost. 15:04:06 <Belugas> i understand the idea behind xiong's attempt, but i have to go along with planetmaker. the fuziness is not really there, at least in our mind. A word cannot always be accurate. plus, it might not be necesseray either 15:04:11 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:05:17 <planetmaker> ha, 3333 postings in tt-forum ;-) 15:05:35 <xiong> Okay, well look guys, I'm a dialectical materialist, so I'm not really on board with statements like "a word cannot always be accurate". I agree that some words are defined imprecisely but that does not mean that a word cannot be defined precisely. 15:06:16 <Belugas> that is true. as long as there is a nned to define such a word. 15:06:17 <Belugas> like... 15:06:18 <planetmaker> xiong, but it means that it's pointless to try to re-define an every-day word in a community where people use everyday language 15:06:27 <Belugas> the inuits have countless words to define snow 15:06:33 <planetmaker> ^ :-) 15:06:34 <Belugas> we do not need that much specificaiotns 15:06:43 <Belugas> if you undertand my thinking 15:06:50 <xiong> If you want to be able to make precise statements, you need precise terms. 15:07:10 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:07:23 <Belugas> we do: combined stations, airports, station tile 15:07:28 <Belugas> there we go :) 15:07:33 <xiong> I realize that there is a whole frame of reference in which precise distinctions are not only unnecessary but plain obnoxious. Sorry. 15:08:00 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 15:08:05 <planetmaker> xiong, that's why we talk of station tile 15:08:11 <xiong> I'm looking to define "physical station". It is not the same as "station tile". 15:08:17 <planetmaker> not? 15:08:30 <xiong> An airport is a physical station. 15:08:51 <planetmaker> an airport has airport tiles 15:08:53 <Belugas> a rail station is a physical station 15:09:31 <xiong> Correct, Belugas. Although you can build more than one physical rail station with a click, you need not -- you can build or doze a single tile. 15:09:31 <planetmaker> but for airports you can only delete all or none 15:09:38 <xiong> Right. 15:10:10 <planetmaker> so I wonder why 'airport' needs a different name :-) 15:10:15 <Belugas> so we know, by definition, that airport means a staiton that is a whole , unbreakable unit 15:10:31 <xiong> Right. "physical station" is an unbreakable unit. 15:10:40 <Belugas> nope 15:10:42 <xiong> I used the word "unit" awhile back. 15:11:00 <xiong> nope? 15:11:01 <Belugas> you are doing sophism saying that 15:11:06 <planetmaker> but 'physical station' is not an established term. Nor does the word imply anything in particular 15:11:09 <Belugas> a cat has fur 15:11:15 <_Terkhen_> road or rail station tiles, docks and airports are unbreakable units 15:11:15 <Belugas> a dog has fur 15:11:18 <Belugas> a cat is a dog 15:11:22 <Belugas> sophis, 15:11:24 <Belugas> sophism 15:11:26 <xiong> Well, I'm trying to establish it. I need the word to explain what a combined station is. 15:11:44 <planetmaker> a combined station is a station which has at least two modes of transport 15:11:49 <planetmaker> e.g. rail and road 15:12:03 <planetmaker> just to show you that that wording is already taken ;-) 15:12:10 <planetmaker> overloaded notation usually is not helpful 15:12:23 <xiong> Ah. So, you don't consider a station to be a combined station if it consist of only one mode of transport? Does that include disjoint stations? 15:12:59 <planetmaker> distant-joined stations are just that: distant-joined stations 15:13:04 <planetmaker> No need for another word either 15:13:13 <xiong> If I build a disjoint station out of two rail station tiles, is it not a combined station? 15:13:19 <planetmaker> no 15:13:32 <planetmaker> it's a rail station and a distant-joined station 15:13:34 <xiong> What "another word" do you mean, that is inessential? 15:13:44 <planetmaker> But that's _my_ words for it. Another person might see that differently 15:14:23 <Belugas> ho no... we do need a dictionnary... 15:14:29 <planetmaker> :-) 15:14:43 <xiong> Well, you see, Belugas, we have a wiki. I'm busy writing definitions. 15:14:51 <planetmaker> sometimes distant-joined station is also referred to as "walked station" 15:15:07 <planetmaker> It's an anachronism from the time where distant-join was not present 15:15:14 *** holyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:15:25 <xiong> That's fine, planetmaker. Aliases are okay. 15:16:00 <Belugas> yeh... i remember the times... 15:16:01 <xiong> But my question was, Is a disjoint station a combined station? And I think you said, No, not always. 15:17:10 <xiong> If it's important to you to keep central terms loosely defined then what I'm trying to do will not be appreciated. 15:17:23 <planetmaker> combined implies for me different vehicle types 15:17:29 * _Terkhen_ agrees with planetmaker 15:17:40 <planetmaker> :-) 15:18:03 <xiong> Okay then. Please distinguish between a single rail tile and two adjacent rail tiles that are a single logical station. 15:18:14 <planetmaker> they're just one station 15:18:17 <_Terkhen_> both are stations to me 15:18:20 <planetmaker> each is a station tile 15:18:26 <xiong> They are two different things. 15:18:30 *** holyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 15:18:54 <xiong> Also, distinguish between one airport and two airports build adjacent to one another. 15:19:04 <planetmaker> station = sum of all station tiles which add to the big something 15:19:05 <xiong> s/build/built/ 15:19:16 <planetmaker> two airports never can be part of one station 15:19:20 <xiong> ? 15:19:28 <_Terkhen_> one of those rail stations has two tracks, and the other only one, but both are stations 15:19:40 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 15:19:44 <davis> i think there's some patch that allows more than one habour-port on one station 15:19:49 <davis> could possibly extended to airports 15:19:54 <xiong> _Terkhen_, To say that these things are the same doesn't help. Need two words. 15:20:03 <_Terkhen_> why? 15:20:10 *** Mortomes|Work [~MortomesW@mail.qps.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:20:39 <xiong> Let's say, in the case of the patch, that two docks are built adjacent. Please tell the difference between the station formed from one dock and that formed from two docks. 15:20:40 <Belugas> 'cause he's building a dictionnary 15:21:03 <Belugas> is he? 15:21:05 <_Terkhen_> you don't need a term for everything, you can complete a term with adjectives and descriptions 15:21:06 <planetmaker> xiong, in one case it's two stations, in the other it's one station 15:21:28 <planetmaker> one station with two docks 15:21:30 <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: two docks can't be part of the same station either... 15:21:34 <xiong> planetmaker, I stipulated the patch that makes the two adjacent docks a single logical station. 15:21:46 <planetmaker> yes. Then it's still one station. With two docks 15:22:08 <xiong> Okay then. For the big money: Please distinguish between the two. 15:22:08 <planetmaker> same with a rail station. a 4x4 and an 8x4 tile station are both stations. 15:22:11 <planetmaker> Just of different size 15:22:30 <planetmaker> I don't need a separate word for a 1-tile station, for a 2-tile station and so forth 15:22:37 <planetmaker> that's what I have the numbers for 15:22:37 <xiong> You cannot speak of either dock as a dock tile; they are each 2 tiles. 15:22:41 <_Terkhen_> single dock station and multiple dock station 15:22:49 * planetmaker agrees with _Terkhen_ 15:22:56 <_Terkhen_> each dock is an entity anyways, even if they are made of two tiles 15:23:14 <_Terkhen_> the concept of station tile as something separate only makes sense for road and rail stations anyways 15:23:16 <xiong> Okay, _Terkhen_ I like "entity". I used "unit" before. 15:23:51 <xiong> I agree; airports and docks are units that cannot be broken down into tiles, not for building/dozing purposes. 15:23:53 <_Terkhen_> I understand entity as something that can be a station by itself 15:23:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought we had evolved past the useless nomenclature debates... 15:24:44 <Eddi|zuHause> if you can't describe something with one word, use two. 15:24:47 <xiong> Well, you're welcome to do better. I'm trying to define "disjoint station". 15:25:00 <davis> i'd like tile by tile constructable airports / docks tho 15:25:06 <_Terkhen_> what's wrong with using disjoint station, separated station, walked station and the like? 15:25:18 <xiong> http://wiki.openttd.org/Disjoint_station 15:25:32 <xiong> Not a problem; I think that definition is good. 15:25:40 <xiong> I might add aliases to it. 15:25:46 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:26:27 <Belugas> davis, keep on dreaming for that lego airport ;) 15:26:48 <planetmaker> ^ :-P 15:27:04 <xiong> I just did. 15:27:34 <xiong> So, walking the links, I need to define "logical station". 15:28:34 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 15:30:14 <xiong> http://wiki.openttd.org/Logical_station 15:30:33 <xiong> Defining "logistics" is easy enough. 15:31:19 <xiong> Defining "combined station" is not too bad if "physical station" is well-defined. 15:31:43 <xiong> But I'm trying to define "physical station" as the unbreakable, buildable, dozable unit of stationness. 15:32:20 <Eddi|zuHause> you are approaching this the wrong way 15:32:36 <xiong> And -- to get back to my original question -- I'm looking for the word that describes all units of building. 15:32:55 <Eddi|zuHause> words don't need to be "well-defined" outside a technical context. they need to be "intuitively clear" 15:32:56 <xiong> Eddi|zuHause, Lead me. 15:33:10 *** Hirundo [~chatzilla@s5591716a.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:33:13 <xiong> This is a technical context. 15:33:25 <_Terkhen_> to my knowlegde there is no existing generical term that means what you want 15:33:28 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it's not 15:33:44 <Eddi|zuHause> the source code is a technical context 15:33:49 <Eddi|zuHause> but playing the game is not 15:34:22 <norbert79> laterz 15:34:23 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice2n2.emea.ibm.com] has left #openttd [] 15:34:31 <xiong> Well, Eddi|zuHause, there we part ways. Sorry. I'm going to suggest that my entire discussion -- maybe everything I say -- is going to be annoying to you. I'm a dialectical materialist and I view pretty much everything in that context. 15:35:13 <Eddi|zuHause> we call that "Betriebsblindheit" 15:35:14 <xiong> We can handle this in a couple of ways. You can respect my orientation as fixed, and permit me my folly. Or you can try to change it and get annoyed when it proves fixed. 15:35:37 <Eddi|zuHause> if the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail 15:35:49 *** holyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:35:53 <xiong> I don't seek to impose this context on other people at all times. But I won't be moved from it. 15:35:59 *** Yexo [~Yexo@153-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:36:11 <dihedral> xiong, i have something for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpcUxwpOQ_A 15:36:21 <dihedral> a little "me me me" :P 15:36:44 <xiong> Wrong analogy. I don't have a single hammer; I have thousands of tools, all different. The other context waves at all of them and says, "tools". 15:37:12 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you have 300 different kinds of hammers. 15:37:36 <Eddi|zuHause> but none of them allow you to handle a screw. 15:37:58 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, 'correctly' handle a screw :-D 15:38:07 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i noticed my mistake ;) 15:38:41 <xiong> Eddi|zuHause, Look, this is the wrong discussion for you. I'm an expert at cutting things up and sorting them into bins. You don't like that; you want things to be a bit fuzzy. I'm not trying to change your viewpoint but there's not much point trying to change mine. 15:38:49 <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: i'm just trying to prevent you from going down a road that nobody will follow you on... 15:38:56 *** holyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 15:39:02 <xiong> I didn't ask for followership. 15:39:11 <xiong> I asked for leadership. 15:39:17 <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: this is a community. 15:39:36 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no "leader" 15:39:39 <xiong> What do you want? 15:39:50 <dihedral> i want +q 15:40:04 <xiong> Specifically, what do you want of me? I think you missed the part where I said I thought my quest was going to be annoying to you. 15:40:05 <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: i want to guide you into a direction where other people can benefit from your work. 15:40:12 <planetmaker> <xiong> I asked for leadership. <-- and if all others say "you might want to re-consider" you go that way nevertheless? Then it's not asking for leadership ;-) 15:40:19 *** robotx [~robotx@141-70-75-133.user.wh-stuttgart.de] has joined #openttd 15:40:26 <xiong> If that involves abandoning dialectical materialism, your effort is futile. 15:40:44 <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: i'm asking for compromise 15:40:52 <dihedral> \o/ 15:40:55 * xiong laughs 15:40:57 <dihedral> you cannot win with him 15:41:15 <xiong> There is no compromise possible. If there were, you can be sure I'd extend that courtesy. 15:41:22 <dihedral> it's like locking 5 kids in one room with 1 toy and expecting them to play fairly 15:41:25 <dihedral> it just will not work 15:41:39 <xiong> To me, everything is a technical discussion, involving precise definitions, precise statements. 15:41:55 * dihedral votes for +q on mr. xiong 15:42:00 <dihedral> for 5 minutes 15:42:06 <dihedral> make that 10 15:42:08 <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: to me, "dialectical materialism" is an extremistic viewpoint, and i'm trying to mediate. 15:42:13 <xiong> All imprecision is bad. Some imprecision must be tolerated, for the actual elimination of it is tedious. 15:42:26 * Rubidium votes for +q on those that talk to him as I've not seen anything from him for days 15:42:35 <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: i'm not saying it's a bad thing, but it's probably not optimal most of the time. 15:42:36 <dihedral> :-D 15:42:39 <xiong> Correct. You're trying to have a metaphysical discussion with someone whose metaphysical outlook has settled. 15:42:40 <dihedral> Rubidium, good point 15:44:03 <xiong> I've just finished reading, for perhaps the sixth time, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. I disagree with Pirsig. He's had a lot of time to try to change my mind but still, I disagree with him. 15:44:26 <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: the key point here is the much quoted "TMWFTLB"... there's no sense in going through all the hoops to find a dialectically precise definition of every little instance in the game, but nobody will benefit from these definitions 15:44:29 <xiong> Do we all see how it's probably not going to do any good to try to change my mind now, here? 15:45:01 <dihedral> @kick xiong 15:45:05 * dihedral sighs 15:45:06 <dihedral> :-D 15:45:18 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that would be the perfect timing ;) 15:45:33 <planetmaker> @op dih 15:45:33 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Error: dih is not in #openttd. 15:45:37 <dihedral> @kick xiong 15:45:38 <planetmaker> @op dihedral 15:45:41 *** mode/#openttd [+o dihedral] by DorpsGek 15:45:45 *** xiong was kicked from #openttd by dihedral [bye byes] 15:45:54 <dihedral> @deop 15:45:54 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:45:56 <dihedral> oh 15:46:09 *** mode/#openttd [-o dihedral] by dihedral 15:46:09 <dihedral> :-) 15:46:16 <dihedral> that is not my normal role ^^ 15:46:18 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-68-183-253-72.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 15:46:23 <dihedral> damint 15:46:23 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.220.202] has joined #openttd 15:46:29 <dihedral> should have waited that little moment 15:46:31 <xiong> What was that? I wasn't the least bit rude. 15:46:58 <planetmaker> but to quite some extend annoying larger parts of the active channel 15:47:02 <Eddi|zuHause> if you don't see how "i'm not moving. *stomp*" is not rude, i can't help you anymore. sorry 15:47:25 <Eddi|zuHause> probably a "not" too much... 15:47:28 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, the word 'anymore' is wrong :-D 15:48:03 <xiong> You can always say, "Please don't talk about this." 15:48:49 <Eddi|zuHause> that's precisely what i did the whole discussion long ;) 15:48:50 <dihedral> we just did 15:49:07 <Belugas> xiong, that reminds me of something that really bugs me: your nick has a distinctive chinese sound, as well as your nick on forums and even your avatar. Yet you claim you are not chinese. That really confuses me. Can you shed some lights? that will appease my mind :) 15:49:23 <xiong> Belugas, Gladly. 15:50:21 <xiong> I lived for several years in China. You might say, in some ways, some Chinese-ness has seeped in -- the great big lead sledgehammer has done what Pirsig could not. It's a very tiny shift but important to me. 15:51:37 <Belugas> haaaa...right :) 15:52:10 <Lakie> Rubidium: I'm made two diffs though I doubt you can apply one after the other. 15:53:19 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... there haven't been any commits today... 15:53:21 <Rubidium> ofcourse I can, I might get a load of rejects though :) 15:53:40 <Lakie> Hehe 15:53:52 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.220.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:53:55 <Lakie> Well, I made one which is basically the stuff from gw add to gr. 15:54:13 <Eddi|zuHause> a dialectical masochist would say "successfully apply" :p 15:54:19 * Lakie now fetches them out of virtual machine 15:54:21 <Belugas> mmh... looks like someone has silenced someone... 15:54:24 *** holyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:55:12 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, define Successfully :-P 15:55:22 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: returns with exit code 0? 15:55:23 <dihedral> hehe 15:55:37 <dihedral> ah :-P 15:56:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i can play this very well, thank you :p 15:56:16 <Rubidium> (patch -i foes || true) <- that'll apply succesfully :) 15:56:24 <xiong> My handle, /xiong/ is /pinyin/ for the character you see as my Gravatar. The character means 'Bear', which is what people call me in US. 15:57:52 <xiong> The character, together with 2 others, is my legal name in China. It is an exact translation of my usual name in US. 15:59:08 <xiong> Online, I find the handle 'Bear' or 'bear' to be difficult to acquire; it's usually taken. So, I generally use 'xiong'. 16:00:23 *** Kitty_Away [go-there@188.247.74.45] has quit [autokilled: This host violated network policy. Mail support@oftc.net if you think this in error. (2010-10-21 16:02:24)] 16:00:33 *** Mortomes [~mortomes@ip565bdd29.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 16:09:48 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-220-140.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 16:09:56 <dihedral> \o/ found a nice way of extending java applications :-) 16:16:20 *** Vitus [~chatzilla@138.194.wms.cz] has joined #openttd 16:23:50 *** Hirundo [~chatzilla@s5591716a.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:30:14 <fjb> Use classes? 16:41:28 <azaghal> Yo 16:42:56 <__ln__> Tú 16:43:05 <_Terkhen_> hi azaghal 16:45:55 <planetmaker> moin 16:47:10 <__ln__> does someone know about english poetry and iambic pentameter? 16:48:51 <frosch123> better do a complete hexameter 16:55:55 *** robotx [~robotx@141-70-75-133.user.wh-stuttgart.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:00:28 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has quit [Quit: Quit] 17:01:42 <xiong> __ln__, Yes. I do. How can I help? This being extremely OT for chan, would you like to /query me? 17:02:04 <xiong> I can probably tell you all you want to know about iambic pentameter. 17:02:25 <xiong> I can just bet you are trying to write an Elizabethan sonnet. 17:06:03 *** avdg [~avdg@94-227-100-192.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:06:08 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has joined #openttd 17:06:22 *** avdg [~avdg@94-227-100-192.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:07:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.220.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:12:29 <__ln__> xiong: ok, does e.g. the line "My noon, my midnight, my talk, my song" follow the pentameter? 17:12:41 <__ln__> off-topic? no, it's english. 17:12:50 <Belugas> heheh 17:13:17 <__ln__> because in that line the "midnight" kind of messes things up if pentameter is about syllables. 17:14:15 <xiong> __ln__, Seriously, I'm terrified of getting into this topic on this chan. Please, /query me. 17:14:28 <xiong> Or I'll /query you. 17:14:32 <__ln__> hold on 17:14:43 <__ln__> -> #openttd-poetry 17:16:48 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:19:27 <Belugas> that community will never cease to amaze me hehehe 17:27:13 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 17:27:46 * azaghal waits for a "Why, oh why did I build that loop so short?" poem 17:28:01 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm114.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [] 17:29:30 <Belugas> "The Rime Of The Ancien Train Driver" 17:35:24 *** Hirundo [~chatzilla@s5591716a.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:37:09 *** Hirundo [~chatzilla@s5591716a.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:43:40 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21003 /trunk/src/lang/ (czech.txt spanish.txt ukrainian.txt unfinished/thai.txt): 17:43:40 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:43:40 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: czech - 3 changes by marek995 17:43:40 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen 17:43:40 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: thai - 5 changes by reindeeruz 17:43:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 1 changes by Fixer 17:43:54 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbab3a8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:45:53 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7d0e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47:31 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFF78D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:47:53 *** Tennel [~Tennel@88.150.10.194] has joined #openttd 17:58:06 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:58:49 *** Mortomes [~mortomes@ip565bdd29.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:02:08 *** Lakie` [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 18:03:41 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFEAA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:08:09 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:08:41 *** Mortomes [~mortomes@i15108.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 18:17:56 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbab3a8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:24:42 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 18:26:08 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbab3a8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:30:51 *** Lakie` [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:35:47 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: more listen, more understand, more know] 18:36:19 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74940.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:36:53 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74940.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:36:57 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 18:36:58 <perk11> ÑÑÑ 18:37:15 <perk11> sry 18:42:52 *** andythenorth [~andy@host86-171-86-103.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:43:01 <andythenorth> evening :D 18:43:49 <__ln__> whom are you laughing at?! 18:44:38 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 18:44:38 <andythenorth> I am gleeful 18:45:33 <planetmaker> hm, how do I offer a refit option for a wagon for a single cargo but different properties, so that both are shown as an option? 18:45:53 <planetmaker> cargo subtypes? 18:46:08 <planetmaker> hm... probably ;-) 18:49:25 <andythenorth> cargo subtypes 18:49:33 <andythenorth> HEQS trams do it 18:49:38 <andythenorth> meanwhile: http://www.roadtransport.com/blogs/big-lorry-blog/2010/10/-biglorryblog-is-delighted-to.html 18:51:05 <planetmaker> thanks andythenorth :-) 18:51:26 <planetmaker> also hello :-) 18:51:43 <andythenorth> found the code in HEQS? 18:51:57 <andythenorth> line 111 in industrial_tram_wagons_3.pnfo 18:52:00 <planetmaker> I didn't look for it. I rather was interested in the concept. 18:52:18 <planetmaker> but thanks :-) 18:52:20 <andythenorth> :) 18:53:35 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbab3a8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:57:45 <Eddi|zuHause> anybody have an idea how to do a unionfs between an sshfs and a local disk, so that files added by the remote computer are automatically shown, while local files are saved on the local disk, and by usage of a script both are synched? 18:58:05 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 19:08:08 *** Yexo [~Yexo@153-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 19:08:28 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC234A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:08:38 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-68-183-253-72.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:08:50 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4E2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:10:41 <Yexo> good evening 19:11:22 <Rubidium> evenin' Yexo 19:11:48 <planetmaker> moin Yexo 19:12:11 <Yexo> hello Rubidium and planetmaker :) 19:13:44 <andythenorth> hello yexo :) 19:17:33 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74940.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18:08 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74940.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:20:30 <dihedral> Was there still something you wanted me to do regarding admin network docs, Rubidium ? 19:21:58 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 19:22:51 *** avdg [~avdg@94-227-100-192.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:23:02 <Rubidium> don't know anymore. Have you looked at my diff? You talked about some other change after my diff, have you looked into that? 19:23:02 *** avdg [~avdg@94-227-100-192.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 19:23:15 *** Tennel [~Tennel@88.150.10.194] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:24:23 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 19:27:43 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:27:50 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-71-4.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:32:10 <dihedral> http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/admin_network.txt <- i did update it yesterday 19:39:35 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 19:42:16 *** heffer [~felix@hyperion.fetzig.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:44:54 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:51:03 <Xaroth> dihedral: nice 19:51:31 <Xaroth> might want to make sure that there is sufficient room for backward/forward compatibility 19:52:25 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:52:35 <dihedral> thanks 19:53:33 *** _Terkhen_ [~Terkhen@130.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:54:38 *** robotx [~robotx@141-70-75-133.user.wh-stuttgart.de] has joined #openttd 20:01:02 <Rubidium> dihedral: content looks fine, though I've got my doubts on some of the sentences themselves 20:01:37 <Rubidium> maybe you can let someone native English check the sentences 20:03:02 * andythenorth reads it 20:03:20 <dihedral> i am native english! 20:04:46 <andythenorth> it reads pretty good :) 20:11:00 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21004 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [FS#3746]: chat/console messages got sometimes messed up due to LTR names in RTL translations and vice-versa 20:11:28 *** _Terkhen_ [~Terkhen@114.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 20:12:15 *** andythenorth [~andy@host86-171-86-103.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:21:43 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21005 /trunk/docs/admin_network.txt: -Document: the admin network protocol on a high(er) level (dihedral) 20:21:56 *** andythenorth [~andy@host86-171-86-103.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:22:09 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7d0e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:27:34 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has quit [Quit: Quit] 20:33:22 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 20:33:59 *** kenneth [kenneth@cpc1-nrte13-0-0-cust531.8-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:35:44 *** kenneth [kenneth@cpc1-nrte13-0-0-cust531.8-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:39:38 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 20:40:44 *** GT [~GT@rt-scb-9f41.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 20:40:47 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 20:42:31 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:43:01 <GT> section 4 of the admin_network.txt: they ave asked --> have asked ? (but I am not natively English) 20:46:29 <GT> Section 3: Not supported AdminUpdateType --> An unsupported AdminUpdateType 20:47:06 *** holyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 20:47:43 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:47:51 * Rubidium blames andy 20:48:27 <GT> section 8: is send --> is sent 20:48:58 <andythenorth> the problem is that english is very flexible :P 20:49:06 <GT> I'mnot 20:49:21 <andythenorth> native english speakers often make bad english 'just work' 20:49:34 <avdg> good guys, are we fighting blamewar? :p 20:49:46 <andythenorth> battle!! 20:49:48 <GT> if possible 20:51:03 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 20:52:38 <Hirundo> section 2: "However, [upon] asking for an invalid AdminUpdateType or a not supported AdminUpdateFrequency you will be disconnected from the server with NETWORK_ERROR_ILLEGAL_PACKET" <- missing 'upon' here? 20:53:18 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:53:51 <planetmaker> either that or some other wording near disconnected 20:54:37 <andythenorth> 'will cause you to be disconnected' 20:54:38 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AFA4B2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:54:50 <andythenorth> reads fine to me as written though 20:55:09 <andythenorth> I correct much worse mistakes by native speakers every day 20:56:13 <_Terkhen_> good night 20:56:15 *** _Terkhen_ [~Terkhen@114.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...] 20:56:24 <andythenorth> ha he was quick 20:56:29 *** andythenorth [~andy@host86-171-86-103.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:56:30 *** robotx [~robotx@141-70-75-133.user.wh-stuttgart.de] has left #openttd [Verlassend] 20:57:14 <dihedral> i never said i was not legastanic :-P 20:57:20 *** andythenorth [~andy@host86-171-86-103.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:57:38 *** holyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:58:26 *** Chillosophy [~fu@82-170-139-109.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 20:59:05 <Rubidium> too bad such comments usually only come after something has been committed 20:59:33 <dihedral> GT: write a patch? :-P 20:59:37 * dihedral chuckles :-P 21:01:00 <frosch123> dihedral: maybe you want to compensate for it by translating mi2 to english? :p 21:02:06 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 21:02:43 <GT> legastanic: a near google whack 21:04:11 <dihedral> i was actually quite serious about that ^^ 21:05:08 <GT> the patch or the legatanic bit 21:05:13 <GT> ? 21:05:45 <dihedral> the legastenic bit 21:09:19 * GT still wonders what legastanic is, something like dyslectic? 21:11:14 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 21:11:49 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 21:14:06 <andythenorth> good night 21:14:08 *** andythenorth [~andy@host86-171-86-103.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:14:28 <dihedral> GT, ah - i was using the german word :-D 21:16:28 <GT> kein Problem, gave me the chance to learn a new word 21:17:15 <dihedral> hehe 21:17:30 <frosch123> now you only need to spell it correctly :p 21:18:15 *** Hirundo_ [~chatzilla@s5591716a.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:19:33 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 21:21:36 <GT> of all words, why would legasthenik need to be spelled correctly? 21:22:00 <planetmaker> dyslexic maybe, though ;-) 21:22:10 <dihedral> hehe 21:22:33 <dihedral> i do my very best and fail :-P 21:23:53 *** Vitus [~chatzilla@138.194.wms.cz] has quit [Quit: Good bye] 21:24:03 <GT> join the club 21:25:22 *** Hirundo [~chatzilla@s5591716a.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:26:16 <frosch123> night 21:26:21 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7d0e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:24 <GT> ÎŽÏ ÏλεκÏικά (strange people, the English) 21:29:36 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-220-140.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:31:22 *** Chillosophy [~fu@82-170-139-109.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [] 21:39:12 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [] 21:39:58 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe83de00-38.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 21:53:16 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 21:55:57 *** Hirundo_ [~chatzilla@s5591716a.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:58:12 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:00:04 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0b8955.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 22:03:42 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:03:49 *** GT [~GT@rt-scb-9f41.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: exit (0)] 22:04:28 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:05:43 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:08:13 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-68-183-253-72.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 22:09:05 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db19f19.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us.] 22:10:53 *** enr1x [~kiike@230.227.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 22:11:04 <enr1x> hi guys 22:11:19 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 22:11:21 <enr1x> Rubidium: thanks for the translation privileges (i'm kiike on the translator site) 22:11:32 <enr1x> i have a question though: when exactly can a town accept goods? 22:11:51 <__ln__> when it has some specific type of building(s) 22:11:54 <enr1x> i am playin in subtropical for the first time, and the town i was sending goods to shrank for lack of food 22:11:57 <planetmaker> when there are enough houses in range 22:12:01 <planetmaker> which accept them 22:12:09 <planetmaker> goods != food 22:12:15 <enr1x> yeah i know 22:12:18 <planetmaker> And it doesn't shrink for lack of whatever 22:12:21 <enr1x> but i started with a goods network 22:12:33 <planetmaker> it just doesn't grow 22:12:49 <planetmaker> there are some randome fluctuations possible, though 22:12:53 <enr1x> oh really? but it initially accepted goods and now it won't, 22:13:13 <planetmaker> yes. when one goods-accepting house is replaced by some other 22:13:30 <planetmaker> and then the acceptance in the station's vicinity drops below the threashold for acceptance 22:13:58 <enr1x> oh too bad, now i have three idle trains 22:14:05 <planetmaker> that can happen for towns which just accept something 22:14:16 <enr1x> about 200 good crates per month wasted 22:14:19 <planetmaker> or rather stations which just accept some town cargo 22:14:33 <planetmaker> tryo to cover maybe more of the town, if possible and not yet done 22:14:39 <planetmaker> *try 22:15:02 <enr1x> planetmaker: i cover most of the town, just that there is no building that accepts goodsa 22:15:06 <enr1x> *goods 22:15:17 <enr1x> just passenges, mail, water and food 22:16:06 <enr1x> can i influence in some way so that i get a goods-accepting building? 22:16:22 <planetmaker> well, houses accept varying degrees of mail, pax, goods or food 22:16:35 <enr1x> so i just have to wait a bit, right? 22:16:38 <planetmaker> you have no influence on that. You need to grow the town. Thus provide food 22:16:55 <planetmaker> A town which grows is likely to expand is likely to grow goods-accepting buildings 22:16:57 <enr1x> ok, that's what i am doing so far 22:17:13 <enr1x> i understand that the amount of food won't do anything on the rate of growth, right? 22:17:14 <planetmaker> and provide passenger service 22:17:21 <planetmaker> yes, correct 22:17:29 <planetmaker> just one parcel of food per month 22:17:37 <planetmaker> everything else is luxury 22:19:27 <planetmaker> a town in desert needs necessarily food. And growth speed reaches its maximum if you have five (or more) well-serviced stations within the towns influence area 22:19:43 <planetmaker> whatever cargo type they transport is of no importance 22:20:55 <enr1x> ok, thanks for the help, planetmaker 22:21:03 <planetmaker> you're welcome 22:21:20 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 22:21:35 *** Muddy [muddy@playing.OpenTTD.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:48 *** Muddy [muddy@playing.OpenTTD.no] has joined #openttd 22:24:08 *** enr1x [~kiike@230.227.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:30:34 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 22:34:35 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:36:24 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:37:12 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:43:40 <xiong> I have bought a tile by demolishing existing road and building new road in the same place; but then I marked it 'blocked' by marking it one-way against both ways. I think the town erased the markings and built a grade crossing, with results not good. Must I always build a structure to block grade-crossing building? 22:45:18 <Wolf01> 'night 22:45:23 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host205-208-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:47:07 <Eddi|zuHause> one-way does not prevent town growth 22:47:19 <glx> rail does :) 22:47:30 <glx> the right rail of course 22:47:42 <dihedral> but it should prevent other road tiles to join that tile 22:48:09 <xiong> I don't want to prevent town growth. Nor have I. I built road right across the tracks and blocked it on either side. 22:48:16 <dihedral> and the town does not remove one way markings on a road tiles, does it? 22:48:42 <dihedral> xiong, poste a screenshot 22:48:44 <Eddi|zuHause> crossings can't have one-way markings, so they are removed 22:49:13 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, i thought, if you have the one way markings, and then try to make a crossing, it would generally fail 22:49:17 <xiong> These are not crossings. I speak of tiles adjacent to where the grade crossing used to be. 22:49:20 <dihedral> or does then town override that 22:49:22 <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: you can prevent the town from building a crossing by building a crossing on the adjacent road 22:49:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean pure road crossings, not road-rail crossings 22:50:33 <xiong> There are buildings to either side of the contested tile. 22:50:39 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f721707.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:50:48 <Eddi|zuHause> then i don't understand what you mean 22:51:22 <xiong> Here is a tile. It is now a dead end at the rail, since I long ago removed the grade crossing. Also, I marked it one-way against both ways. 22:51:40 *** fanioz [~fanioz@223.255.225.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:51:41 <xiong> I don't see how that can morph or alter over time. 22:51:46 <glx> screenshot will be easier 22:51:52 <xiong> But amazingly, it did -- twice. 22:52:04 <xiong> Is it that complex? 22:55:24 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:56:22 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 23:00:25 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:02:58 <xiong> http://imagepaste.nullnetwork.net/viewimage.php?id=1389 -- before and after, but not before the inevitable fireball. 23:03:10 <xiong> I mean, not after the fireball. 23:03:52 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:03:57 <xiong> You notice that on the SE side, I built a structure to block growth absolutely -- and besides, I mean to build another track. 23:04:02 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like a bug 23:05:27 <SmatZ> it's a feture 23:05:34 <SmatZ> feature, even 23:05:40 <xiong> So, just so I can go in peace: The situation I show in the first shot -- the top shot -- is at least supposed to be stable? If I don't monkey with it, no vehicle should cross the do-not-enter tile? 23:06:15 <SmatZ> where is a "do-not-enter" tile? 23:06:28 <xiong> A one-way against both ways. 23:06:54 <xiong> It shows in the NW corner of the top shot. 23:06:55 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AACF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:56 <SmatZ> towns don't care about onewayness 23:07:06 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:07:18 *** Brianett1 [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:07:25 <xiong> I don't even know what that means, SmatZ. Towns don't have vehicles, either. 23:07:41 <SmatZ> if town removed a onewayness-status, then it is a bug 23:07:43 <xiong> It is company vehicles that are smashing into one another. 23:07:53 <xiong> So, just so I can go in peace: The situation I show in the first shot -- the top shot -- is at least supposed to be stable? If I don't monkey with it, no vehicle should cross the do-not-enter tile? 23:08:15 * SmatZ does monkeys with xiong 23:08:17 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: the upper half of the picture shows red dots on the road behind the rail [= forbid entering]. apparently after the town grows over the rail, the red dots are gone 23:09:04 *** Brianett1 [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 23:09:38 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: sorry, I see no red dots, but that can be because I am kind of colourblind 23:09:51 <xiong> Eddi|zuHause, I didn't make myself clear. The town grew over the rails long ago. Just now, within a few game days, I dealt with a grade incident by removing the grade crossing, marking the do-not-enter tile, and thinking I was done. Then, another crash at the same exact spot. The adjacent roads have bridges on them; I'm not mistaken about the spot. 23:11:04 <xiong> When the rubble cleared after both the first and second crash, I found the bottom shot situation. 23:11:15 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4E2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 23:11:36 <xiong> I can't swear that I left it as the top shot before the first crash but I'm certain that's how I left it between the first and second crashes. 23:12:13 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 23:12:52 <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: i can't reproduce it, though... 23:12:53 <xiong> If that is unexpected and a bug then I'm surprised nobody has noticed it previously. 23:13:48 <xiong> I think it was a freak that it happened to me twice in the matter of a few minutes. But you see that I built the station structure and a streetcar depot there on the SE side; I was reacting to similar stuff I saw earlier. 23:14:53 <xiong> I just didn't notice it *blatantly* as a weirdness. I couldn't be absolutely certain which state I had left a grade crossing in, before the crash brought it to my attention. 23:15:57 <xiong> I did draw roads over many rails and block them on both sides, hoping to encourage growth without inviting fireballs. This worked well for growth, although I feared it wouldn't. It did not work well for fireballs. 23:16:09 <xiong> So, bug or feature? 23:16:46 <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: if it's a bug, i can't reproduce it in trunk... 23:17:09 <Eddi|zuHause> so either you have an autosave, which can repeat the problem 23:17:20 <Eddi|zuHause> or you're the only one who ever has seen that... 23:18:41 <xiong> Well, I have to go earn money now. I will put this down as a thing to do. 23:18:44 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:18:52 <xiong> See you. 23:22:37 *** davis [~b@p5B28BFBB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:26:14 *** davis [~b@p5B28BFC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:27:52 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-68-183-253-72.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:30:49 <avdg> <3 networking http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAh1RRJUdAw 23:40:00 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:47:14 <Eddi|zuHause> err... i have a conceptual problem with imagining a "Heigtmap of the prairies"... 23:47:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it should be _ALL FLAT_ 23:49:41 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 23:49:42 <__ln__> it would sink into sea 23:50:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i wonder why nobody ever implemented exporting a heightmap from a scenario/savegame 23:51:16 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.22.66.123] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 23:51:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean it shouldn't be fundamentally different from making a screenshot 23:52:46 *** holyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 23:55:29 *** holyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [] 23:55:47 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:57:00 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:59:13 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:59:17 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]