Log for #openttd on 26th October 2010:
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05:46:44  <Terkhen> good morning
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07:20:48  <norbert79> Morning
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07:31:06  <norbert79> Boy, I need to catch up with these new rules on German... I just got used to pre-1998 rules, now I am just confused by the new ones... Luckily there is no Å¿ anymore... :)
07:33:06  <norbert79> (langes s)
07:33:13  <Mortomes|Work> ringel-s?
07:33:23  <planetmaker> moin
07:33:28  <norbert79> moin moin
07:33:34  <planetmaker> norbert79: your account is NB?
07:33:49  <norbert79> NB? No it's norbert79
07:33:54  <Mortomes|Work> Oh, the integration symbol s :P
07:34:29  <norbert79> planetmaker: Normally I use norbert79 whereever I can... Where the nick is taken, I use n0rbert79
07:35:50  <planetmaker> because the changes Größe -> Grösse were made by some translator called NB
07:35:54  <planetmaker> or alike
07:36:16  <norbert79> Wasn't me... I reviewed 4 and done changes where necessary
07:36:28  <norbert79> just started to dare doing changes :)
07:36:29  <planetmaker> and that's what the comments in the forums refer to, probably. They were made approx 500 revisions ago
07:36:55  <norbert79> about vergößern, yeah, that was my mistake, but that was changed back by you
07:37:09  <planetmaker> I checked them and reversed them were needed. This NB does sub-quality translations also in other places...
07:37:22  <planetmaker> he :-P
07:37:26  <norbert79> Is there a possibility to find out who this NB is?
07:37:49  <planetmaker> It is, albeit not straight forward
07:37:57  <norbert79> I see
07:38:04  <planetmaker> sorry. NG
07:38:33  <norbert79> I just wanted to touch the German with more care, since I am just catching up again with new rules, so I want to understand the new logic first
07:38:52  <norbert79> too bad, that as many websites, as many different usage :)
07:38:59  <planetmaker> :-)
07:39:06  <norbert79> so Google does not help at all :D
07:39:28  <planetmaker> {WHITE}Kann keine Verbindung mit dem Inhalts-Server verbinden... <-- that was IMHO the highlight of "NG"
07:39:42  <norbert79> ouch
07:39:46  <norbert79> Sounds a bit ... silly
07:39:53  <planetmaker> yeah
07:40:11  * planetmaker likes the 'show last changed strings' function ;-)
07:40:14  <norbert79> Kann mit... or I would have used a different verb
07:40:16  <planetmaker> anyway, gotta run
07:40:24  <planetmaker> see you later
07:40:24  <norbert79> Ok, talk to you then planetmaker
07:40:27  <norbert79> see you
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07:58:46  <dihedral> morning :-)
07:59:13  * dihedral is mildly amused by finding a company in germany named "ECS GmbH" :-D
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08:08:54  <norbert79> Morning dihedral
08:09:12  <norbert79> Ook, I might be tired, but where I would had the chance reading the word ECS?
08:09:19  <norbert79> it sounds damn familiar... :)
08:09:26  <Rubidium> in Russia
08:09:49  <norbert79> Ok, now I am just lost :D
08:12:11  <ccfreak2k> Isn't it some kind of newgrf to make more industries?
08:12:45  <norbert79> Aaaaaah, yees
08:12:49  <norbert79> thanks ccfreak2k
08:13:02  <norbert79> I was just thinking on RAMs
08:13:09  <norbert79> About the error correction
08:13:12  <norbert79> now I get it :)
08:13:20  <ccfreak2k> That's ECC.
08:13:35  <norbert79> ...right ... -_-'
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08:14:09  <norbert79> Damn abbreviations, and the worst of it, my company has tons of it
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08:52:48  <xiong> Hi, guys.
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09:07:21  <X-2> :-)
09:07:56  <norbert79> hi xiong
09:09:31  <xiong> Hey norbert79. Has anyone come up with a standard map zone system?
09:09:58  <norbert79> xiong: No idea, sorry
09:10:41  <xiong> That is, a coarser grid than tile-by-tile. I figure the standard station spread is 16; so for at least some purposes, it's enough to divide the map into 16x16 tile zones.
09:12:30  * planetmaker senses the game "every day a new, even weirder idea"
09:15:07  <norbert79> :)
09:18:03  <norbert79> Well, I am fine with current grid system, don't see any purpose changing
09:18:40  <norbert79> They did this mistake in Heroes of Might and Magic 5, changing from hexa grid to plain tiles grid
09:18:45  <norbert79> very bad choice
09:20:51  <xiong> No, I don't intend to make any sort of change. I'm just trying to plan better.
09:21:03  <Mortomes|Work> The inconsistent behavior between regular track pieces and "diagonal" ones kind of annoys me though
09:21:32  <planetmaker> what inconsistency, Mortomes|Work ?
09:21:59  <Mortomes|Work> Like, you can't build diagonal bridges or tunnels, auto-placed signals are further apart on diagonal track.
09:22:00  <xiong> Instead of throwing stations around at random, I think I will use a system in which every zone is covered by one station. It's not meant to be rigid and exclusive but it will give my layout more structure.
09:22:56  <xiong> Weakness of a square gride, Mortomes|Work; fundamental. That's why so many games use hexagonal grids.
09:23:00  <planetmaker> Mortomes|Work, the distance on diagonal is the same for signals - if you accept the scale shown by the measurement tool. Which in turn uses the scale also used for vehicle movement
09:23:27  <xiong> I'm more tired than I thought; I'd better get ready for the sack.
09:23:31  <xiong> See you.
09:23:52  <planetmaker> but the inconsistency is easy to solve, Mortomes|Work : disallow diagonal tracks. Should be a moderately easy change ;-)
09:24:13  <planetmaker> it's a cheat anyway, given the distance calculations the income is based upon
09:24:36  <Mortomes|Work> planetmaker: That leads to ugly railroads though :P
09:24:43  <planetmaker> ;-)
09:25:04  <planetmaker> Besides that: proper patches are always welcome :-P
09:25:07  <Mortomes|Work> A hex system would be more sensible probably, although I don't see it happening :P
09:25:21  <planetmaker> Be ready for a sack of warms though, if you start to touch diagonal bridges and tunnels
09:25:29  <Mortomes|Work> heh
09:25:30  <planetmaker> hex won't happen
09:25:33  <Spoons> A sack of warms?  Sounds warm.
09:25:40  <Mortomes|Work> I've hardly touched any openttd code at all :P
09:25:55  <planetmaker> *worms
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09:41:19  <dihedral> damn it! did not update my irc client at work :-S
09:41:31  <norbert79> xiong's approach is just dumb, first he should make himself more familiar with the whole concept, and get know every side of the game instead of immideatilly changing it
09:42:32  <dihedral> @s/'s approach//
09:45:02  <planetmaker> I couldn't agree more, norbert79 :-)
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09:50:50  <andythenorth_> morning
09:51:39  <andythenorth_> Belugas: my amazon order just arrived.  2 of these:
09:51:40  <andythenorth_> :)
09:52:21  <dihedral> andythenorth_, mÀrklin :-)
09:52:31  <andythenorth_> bleargh
09:52:38  <dihedral> i like it ^^
09:52:43  <andythenorth_> lego allows for spectacular crashes
09:52:49  <dihedral> LOL
09:53:02  <dihedral> mÀrklin does too
09:53:05  <andythenorth_> I had 'proper' trains when I was a child.  Crashes not good
09:53:10  <andythenorth_> stuff breaks
09:56:49  <planetmaker> moin andythenorth_
10:12:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i fucking hate kaffeine 1.x
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10:47:47  <roboboy> hello
10:48:32  <norbert79> about LEGO:
10:51:15  <Eddi|zuHause> can't view...
10:51:26  <Eddi|zuHause> "requires cookies"... you can fuck yourself...
10:53:07  <andythenorth_> norbert79: peeron is slow :P
10:53:23  <andythenorth_> Eddi|zuHause: an unusually fuck laden day?
10:53:39  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: possibly
10:53:48  <norbert79> andythenorth_: Slow, but helped me find my first set :)
10:53:58  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i have listened to deb (from dexter) too much, though ;)
10:53:59  <andythenorth_> which was?
10:54:20  <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: Tzisk, Tzisk... Learning bad habits :)
10:54:37  <norbert79> Wahahah, found:
10:54:46  <norbert79> that was my first set
10:54:50  <norbert79> loved it
10:55:18  <norbert79>
10:55:48  <norbert79> got that in 1985 (?)
10:56:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i got my first (real) lego in 1989
10:57:13  <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: Ost or West?
10:57:43  <Eddi|zuHause> well, there's a certain significance to the date ;)
10:57:52  <norbert79> Besides I don't know how my parents got my first lego, must been cost a fortune
10:57:58  <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: Sure, thats why I am asking :)
10:58:24  <__ln__> Ost-Legoland
10:58:31  <norbert79> :)
10:59:45  <norbert79> Weird, it seems despite we were even more to the east, we got more possibilites
10:59:50  <norbert79> as it seems
10:59:57  <norbert79> I could even get a Commodore +4 in 1987
11:00:26  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, the hungarian-austrian border was always the most "dissipative"
11:00:41  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a reason why that was the first to actually break
11:00:42  <norbert79> it was quite strict though
11:00:48  <norbert79> yepp
11:01:28  <norbert79> it was damn well secured, though luckily that got loose a bit around 1988-1989
11:02:03  <norbert79> and yes, no surprise, that the first break-through happened there, yet we couldn't also not accomplish this without the non-disapproval of Gorbatchov
11:03:05  <__ln__> did any universities have connection to the internet?
11:03:47  <norbert79> In Hungary?
11:03:59  <norbert79> and when? :)
11:04:03  <__ln__> no, Ost
11:05:46  * norbert79 wonders about the question, since the internet itself appeard first around 1994, and there was no DDR back then...
11:06:55  <__ln__> the internet most certainly "appeared" before 1994
11:08:26  <norbert79> Well, if you refer to any kind of data communication, till 1989 mainline systems were 8 bit systems, and phone lines were strictly under gov. control. In DDR you were not even allowed to watch west german stuff on TV, regular checks were the ways, and you could have no television in your college rooms
11:09:32  <norbert79> Btw CERN only offered the WWW for free in 1993
11:10:01  <norbert79>
11:10:37  <norbert79> it was just different times
11:11:03  <norbert79> In east germany even typwriters must been registered
11:11:23  <norbert79> if you had a typewriter at home, and you were not registered for it's usage, you could been even arrested
11:12:44  <__ln__> WWW is just some new feature of internet that will soon be forgotten.
11:13:14  <norbert79> Calling it New, and saying soon to be forgotten are two things, which are just too overrated :)
11:13:26  <norbert79> WWW will not die very soon, nor is very new
11:13:59  <norbert79> And just show some generally available replacment of both :)
11:14:08  <__ln__> but anyway, even Soviet Union had some internet activity as they got .su in 1990.
11:14:09  <norbert79> Ehm, I mean for the WWW
11:14:26  <norbert79> having the domain registered, and having webpages are two different things
11:14:45  <__ln__> you are confusing "webpages" with internet.
11:14:53  <norbert79> and being a former east block member, I even doubt, that there was anyone in the goverments, who could even understand what that is
11:14:57  <norbert79> not really
11:15:03  <norbert79> I am more like referring to the general use
11:15:22  <Eddi|zuHause> the typical users of "internet" at that time were universities
11:15:29  <norbert79> indeed
11:15:49  <norbert79> but that really wasn't that large, nor accessible to anyone
11:16:03  <__ln__> there are technologies that predate WWW and are also superior.  for example, IRC and Gopher.
11:16:04  <Eddi|zuHause> "did you know that the DDR was leader in computer technology?"
11:16:17  <Eddi|zuHause> "they built the largest microprocessors in the world!"
11:16:40  <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: Why couldn't the DDR concure the west blocks microchip technologies? They couldn't move them ouzt of the factory :D
11:17:31  <norbert79> __ln__: IRC is still beloved, but gopher died out already :)
11:17:44  <norbert79> __ln__: I think you have might missed some few years ;-)
11:17:52  <planetmaker> as do newsgroups die
11:17:57  <norbert79> indeed
11:17:58  <Eddi|zuHause> IRC is also in a notable downward trend
11:18:13  <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: Luckily still strong, because of the protcoll simplicity
11:18:18  <__ln__> yes, newsgroups is also a technology superior to WWW.
11:18:35  <norbert79> __ln__: Don't mix RSS feeds with newsgroups
11:18:46  <Eddi|zuHause> i used to be in a maths channel on quakenet, but in the last ~3 years, hardly any new users came...
11:19:00  <Eddi|zuHause> new students don't seem to come into contact with IRC anymore
11:19:08  <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: Quakenet is going downhill, true, but Freenode got stronger
11:19:20  <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: unfortunately not; i've noticed that too
11:19:31  <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: It was predictable though, since Quakenet got introduced with Quake 3 back then
11:19:58  <__ln__> norbert79: Gopher (almost) died, but that doesn't mean it isn't better than WWW.
11:20:04  <SmatZ> maybe people do not play FPS as much as in the past?
11:20:12  <Eddi|zuHause> norbert79: the parts of quakenet i came in contact with never had anything to do with quake...
11:20:17  <SmatZ> I know I came to quakenet because I playet UT :p
11:20:20  <norbert79> __ln__: Ok, what can Gopher give some, that WWW cannot?
11:20:39  <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: I know, creating a new IRCnetwork doesn't mean it's just all about the game only :)
11:20:58  <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: I jsut said it came with the game, it got more
11:21:20  <norbert79> it grew, attracted other users too, etc
11:21:33  <norbert79> I also went to Quakenet because of UT99 Monsterhunts :)
11:21:34  <__ln__> norbert79: Gopher gives a way to present a hierarchy of data without everyone needing to design the layouts and structure of web pages by themselves.
11:21:52  <norbert79> __ln__: Can be accomplished with WWW too, see Wikis
11:22:25  <norbert79> besides it's not required using complicated webpages
11:22:32  <norbert79> but it helps if you have some nice layouts
11:22:41  <norbert79> Like :)
11:22:57  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what gopher actually is
11:22:59  <__ln__> norbert79: You are mixing up concepts now.
11:23:14  <norbert79> __ln__: Not really... Besides, the problem with gopher was it never envolved
11:23:38  <norbert79> it's just like saying Teletext is much better than webpages, you have that coming with your cable connection :)
11:24:32  <norbert79> __ln__: Besides, WWW was the successor of gopher
11:26:36  <Eddi|zuHause>
11:26:44  <__ln__> norbert79: well Teletext *is* better than web pages, because it doesn't enforce any specific layout or font for the reader.
11:26:55  <__ln__> nor javascript
11:27:21  <norbert79> __ln__: It's just a point of requirements, why don't you use "links" then?
11:27:37  <norbert79> it's a text-based webbrowser, also available for win32 too
11:27:57  <norbert79> if you feel you don't like all this shiny things
11:28:00  <__ln__> norbert79: because I like lynx more.
11:28:09  <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause:
11:28:17  <norbert79> __ln__: There, problem solved :)
11:29:40  <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause:
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12:03:56  <norbert79> "Son, I am disappoint..." -
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12:05:50  <Rubidium> ars? is that Amglish?
12:09:52  <norbert79> No idea, might be also an abbreviation
12:10:20  <ccfreak2k> It's Latin/.
12:10:45  <Rubidium> so it's not arse + ass mixed together :(
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12:16:09  <norbert79> ccfreak2k: Thx, didn't know
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12:30:23  * andythenorth_ tries to go to BROS forums to get some graphics to add to a repo
12:30:27  <andythenorth_> no fricking chance of that
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12:30:42  <andythenorth_> "Moving Hosts... Bear with us"
12:30:45  <andythenorth_> surprise me
12:30:46  <andythenorth_> grrr
12:31:08  <norbert79> whats BROS forum?
12:31:15  <andythenorth_> don't ask
12:31:21  <andythenorth_> it's a world of pain
12:31:42  <norbert79> :)
12:32:08  <norbert79> Bros reminds me on the singing twins, and on "When, will I, be famous...?"
12:35:44  <andythenorth_> In the case of this BROS, it's more like "When, will I, ever release something...?"
12:35:49  <andythenorth_> "...anything"
12:35:54  <andythenorth_> "anything at all"
12:36:07  <andythenorth_> or maybe "When, will I, will I stop arguing...?"
12:36:21  <norbert79> lol
12:36:29  <norbert79> But seriously, whats this BROS? :)
12:36:37  <andythenorth_> it's a cluster fuck of a set
12:36:48  <andythenorth_> a 'complete' British set
12:36:52  <norbert79> we are getting somewhere... Is it a game?
12:36:54  <norbert79> Aaaaaah
12:37:00  <andythenorth_>
12:37:13  <andythenorth_> it's 'open' and is 'community led'
12:37:27  <andythenorth_> it's so open that I can't get into it's special forums
12:37:34  <norbert79> :)))
12:37:36  <andythenorth_> and it's so community-led that all they do is bitch
12:38:05  * andythenorth_ thinks "all I want is a tracking table" :(
12:38:07  <norbert79> at some circumstances this word is something very enjoyable :D :D
12:38:57  <norbert79> "BROS has no leaders and is completely Community driven" - Oh boy, having no goals no roadmaps
12:39:10  <andythenorth_> no there is a goal
12:39:22  <norbert79> yeah, but no roadmap to that
12:39:26  <andythenorth_> "provide a complete set of train graphics of trains that have been used in the United Kingdom"
12:40:16  <Rubidium> norbert79: I think their goal is to have no goal, and roadmaps are just for those who need them (management!)
12:40:30  <Rubidium> given there is no leader, there can't be management either
12:40:50  <norbert79> Thats why the project might end up in chaos
12:41:08  <andythenorth_> it did
12:41:13  <planetmaker> it's never been anywhere else
12:41:30  <andythenorth_> me and DJ are going to have a crack at fixing it one more time...
12:41:42  <planetmaker> do you? ;-)
12:41:49  <andythenorth_> yeah...
12:41:54  <andythenorth_> stupid forums are down again though
12:42:02  <norbert79> Well my own roadmap is to finish german and hungarian translation reviewed, then going on with my hungarian building set, creating the first, OpenTTD palette based graphicsa as first step... Will also create a quick roadmap to my goals, hope someone might join my plan later on :)
12:42:19  * andythenorth_ has a roadmap
12:42:40  <andythenorth_> it's quite squiggly
12:42:46  * Rubidium predicts norbert79 strands at "OpenTTD palette"
12:43:20  <norbert79> Rubidium: Well, I would be happy if I manage to create my first set with the Windows based platette only :)
12:44:48  <norbert79> I also realised, that I might redo even my first graphic too, since I overmeasured it's size ... doh...
12:45:32  <Rubidium> go for the DOS palette. It's better (more consistent, more colours)
12:45:54  <norbert79> doesn't cause problems when having 32 bit colours set on?
12:46:03  <norbert79> I mean will that not produce graphic issues?
12:46:31  <planetmaker> listen to Rubi's palette advice. No difference during production really
12:46:32  * andythenorth_ has less a roadmap...more a vision :P
12:46:33  <andythenorth_>
12:46:52  <norbert79> let me check if I have the DOS palette for GIMP
12:47:03  <norbert79> can happen, that I have to create that too
12:47:27  <Rubidium> like Guy Steele would say: the DOS one is more good
12:48:05  <Eddi|zuHause> double plus good?
12:48:31  <norbert79> crap, no palette file available for DOS colours, but the ttd-newgrf-win
12:48:35  <andythenorth_> what extra colours do I get if I switch to dos
12:48:39  * andythenorth_ looks
12:49:11  <planetmaker> andythenorth_, about 6 or so
12:49:28  <planetmaker> norbert79, we happily add one to our page :-)
12:49:52  <norbert79> planetmaker: You mean I should create it, right? :)
12:51:02  <norbert79> oh well, I have to understand first the GPL fileformat (GIMP Palette)
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12:55:09  <planetmaker> norbert79, it basically means 'I don't have it, but I'd like to'
12:57:30  <norbert79> planetmaker: I just can't remember from which site I got the GIMP Plaette files, the ttdpatch site or the openttd-coop site
12:59:30  <planetmaker> that shouldn't matter. We have the windows one at least. If the ttdpatch site had the DOS one, I must have missed it
13:00:14  <planetmaker> In any case I'd like the devzone to have the palette information for all palettes as well as for as many graphics programme as there are commonly used for TTD sprite drawing
13:00:29  <planetmaker> It'd make for a great ressource
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13:00:48  <planetmaker> but... what's there is all I found so far.
13:00:49  <norbert79> well, I can send you the ones I have gathered for GIMP
13:01:02  <norbert79> and try to create the DOS palette too
13:01:12  <planetmaker> I got the windows gimp ones...
13:01:52  <planetmaker>
13:02:20  <planetmaker> or rather Ammler did ;-)
13:02:38  <norbert79> Ooh, just found the perfect picture to create the DOS one
13:02:44  <norbert79> hah, I am done with it very soon
13:02:49  <planetmaker> :-)
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13:11:02  <norbert79> Ook, first 48 colours are set... planetmaker: you can soon release the DOS palette file too ;-)
13:11:16  <norbert79> I just hope the reference file I use is ok
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13:11:24  * Yexo hopes norbert79 is not creating the gpl file manually
13:11:41  <norbert79> Yexo: No, I use GIMP's palette editor :)
13:11:47  <Yexo> still too much work :)
13:11:57  <norbert79> even though I could do so... Yeah, I know, but I have no better idea
13:12:04  * planetmaker remembers that they might be created automatically from NML or OpenTTD sources
13:12:14  <Yexo> ;)
13:12:17  <Yexo> give me a few minutes
13:12:20  <norbert79> sure
13:14:17  <Yexo> norbert79: are the first colors the same as in your file?
13:14:28  <Yexo> if so, that's the complete file
13:14:39  <norbert79> moment
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13:15:12  <Yexo> same file with txt extention for easier online viewing
13:15:35  <norbert79> no, different
13:15:58  <norbert79> instead of 16 16 16 mine begins with 238 0 238
13:16:05  <planetmaker> Yexo, you could add it straight to the documents section ;-)
13:16:10  <Belugas> hello
13:16:13  <norbert79> planetmaker: Wait a bit
13:16:16  <Yexo> planetmaker: yes, but only if it's correct
13:16:28  <planetmaker> Well :-) sure
13:16:32  <norbert79> line 32 differs too
13:16:36  <norbert79> 37
13:16:51  <norbert79> Wait, let me check, might I haven't saved yet
13:17:08  <Yexo> norbert79: openttd code has 16,16,16 too, so it seems that one is correct
13:17:22  <norbert79> Yexo: Yes, didn't save... You're right
13:17:26  <norbert79> ok, it's ok for release
13:18:09  <norbert79> wait
13:18:17  <norbert79> Line 15, the last colour in the first row
13:18:24  <norbert79> are you sure it's 252 252 252?
13:18:29  <norbert79> Not FFFFFF?
13:18:48  <norbert79> (255 255 255)
13:19:11  <Yexo> yes, 252,252,252 is what openttd uses
13:19:24  <Yexo> and also grfcodec
13:19:29  <norbert79> weird, my reference picture states it's 255 255 255
13:19:39  <Yexo> which is close enough :)
13:19:40  <norbert79> well it's not that big of difference...
13:20:08  <norbert79> oh well, it's fine, I will just use this one... Ok, release! :)
13:20:25  <Yexo> I didn't see your "wait" in time, so it was already released :p
13:20:38  <norbert79> :P
13:20:59  <Yexo> Ammler: what did you do to create the noaction-nocomp and noaction palette files?
13:22:18  <planetmaker> looking at it, it has less entries. And remaining just re-numbered
13:22:44  <planetmaker> e.g. noaction only has 207 entries
13:23:37  <Yexo> how useful are those paletes (because they are renumbered?)
13:23:52  <dihedral> norbert79, "ein 'ß' nach einem langen vokal belbit ein 'ß'" ;-)
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13:24:37  <norbert79> dihedral: Where, what, where did I make another mistake? I was just reviewing 4 items
13:24:46  <planetmaker> Yexo, they're useful when you have an rgb file and want no action or CC colours.
13:24:48  <norbert79> dihedral: Not touched the translator since yesterday
13:25:12  <Yexo> planetmaker: so you convert first to the noaction-nocomp palette and then to the normal one?
13:25:17  <planetmaker> then first convert to that, back to rgb and then to full
13:25:20  <planetmaker> yes
13:25:26  <dihedral> norbert79, i am not refering to anything in particular ;-)
13:25:27  <Yexo> why back to rgb?
13:25:29  <dihedral> just in general ;-)
13:25:46  <norbert79> dihedral: Ah, ok. :)
13:25:48  <planetmaker> because I can't convert from index->index. Though re-interpret might work
13:25:58  <Yexo> ah, ok :)
13:26:07  <norbert79> dihedral: Ist mir bewusst, btw ;-)
13:26:18  <dihedral> ok :-)
13:26:26  <norbert79> dihedral: It wasn't a good idea to touch the translator after being awakre for 24 hours :D
13:27:09  <dihedral> LOL
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13:29:10  <planetmaker> being overly tired is the same as drunk ;-)
13:30:11  <__ln__> only cheaper
13:30:57  <TrueBrain> well, it takes more time
13:31:01  <norbert79> Question: Two buses fit to one tile, right?
13:31:20  <TrueBrain> define 'fit'
13:31:29  <TrueBrain> on both sides of the road: sure
13:31:35  <norbert79> No, behind each other
13:31:44  <TrueBrain> depends on your GRF set :D
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13:32:50  <dihedral> hehe
13:32:56  <dihedral> hello TrueBrain :-)
13:33:30  <planetmaker> norbert79, 4 busses fit ;-)
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13:33:41  <planetmaker> at least of the "MKS Regal Bus"
13:34:06  <TrueBrain> and you need 2 tiles for that fucking ugly 'realistic' set :p
13:34:41  <Belugas> youhou
13:34:47  <Eddi|zuHause> it has nothing to do with Maul- und Klauenseuche... it's an "MPS Regal Bus" named after MicroProse ;)
13:40:11  <fjb> Moin
13:40:35  <planetmaker> hey fjb
13:40:38  <norbert79> Nah, I wasn't just sure if I have used the right measurments for my first building, but as it seems, I did
13:40:49  <fjb> Moin planetmaker
13:41:00  <planetmaker> norbert79, there's no general scale in TTD... so many things go
13:41:36  <norbert79> I know, I just wanted to fit to the generic scale, like the MPS Bus, or the Ikarus set
13:41:45  <norbert79> and mine fits :)
13:41:55  <fjb> And houses and vehicles have totally unrelated scales anyway.
13:42:14  <norbert79> well, my tries to follow the ones used for the vehicles
13:42:21  <planetmaker> <-- @ Eddi|zuHause ;-)
13:45:09  <Eddi|zuHause> while at it... what must i install to playback .mkv files?
13:45:22  <Eddi|zuHause> apparently, vlc can play them, but kaffeine not...
13:45:28  <__ln__> mplayer, vlc
13:46:01  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it's only a weird codec being used... it can play the audio, but the video stays blank
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13:46:09  <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: VLC
13:46:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i have vlc installed, but i want to play it back in kaffeine...
13:46:29  <norbert79> Don't forget, MKV is just a container, like an AVI or OGG
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13:46:54  <norbert79> it can contain any kind of files coded with any codec
13:46:54  <Belugas> thanks andythenorth_ for the link
13:47:10  <Eddi|zuHause> and have i mentioned that i hate kaffeine 1.x?
13:47:17  <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: Yes :)
13:57:39  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: missed most what you wrote, but you have a mkv of which the audio works but the video doesn't?
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13:58:26  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. in vlc both works, in kaffeine only audio
13:58:45  <TrueBrain> means kaffeine isn't updated yet :D
13:59:13  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no problem playing other mpeg4 stuff
13:59:24  <TrueBrain>
13:59:31  <TrueBrain> it is a really annoying problem
13:59:39  <TrueBrain> remux your mkv, and it will work fine
14:00:45  <TrueBrain> I have an Asus O!Play, which does not support it yet ... _very_ annoying :)
14:02:16  <norbert79> Just use VLC and your problems disappear :)
14:02:16  <norbert79> it's also QT based :)
14:02:37  <TrueBrain> VLC sucks balls
14:03:03  <norbert79> naaaah
14:03:13  <norbert79> I disagree
14:03:21  <norbert79> tell me one issue with it
14:03:25  <TrueBrain> IT SUCKS
14:03:39  * TrueBrain <= real mplayer fan
14:03:50  <Eddi|zuHause> it does not have the features i want...
14:03:59  <Eddi|zuHause> namely switching/recording DVB channels
14:04:07  <norbert79> Sorry, I can't read you about the nice DVD Menu handling, which VLC offers ;-)
14:04:29  <TrueBrain> who on earth wants to use DVDs in these moderns times?
14:04:35  <norbert79> me?
14:04:36  <TrueBrain> VLC can't play VHS, so it sucks
14:04:40  <norbert79> lol
14:04:46  <norbert79> maybe it could
14:04:51  <norbert79> never tried it :D
14:05:04  * fjb seconds TrueBrain.
14:05:24  * norbert79 owns around 150-200 original DVD-s
14:05:30  *** Keiya [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:05:32  <TrueBrain> sucks to be you :)
14:05:34  <TrueBrain> 480p sucks :)
14:05:55  <TrueBrain> and why would you want to play DVDs on your computer?
14:05:56  <TrueBrain> sounds wrong :)
14:05:59  <norbert79> True, but Blueray is still expensive
14:06:07  <TrueBrain> Internet is free
14:06:11  <norbert79> and I only own a few items which are double DVD's
14:06:36  <TrueBrain> plural of DVD is DVDs, not DVD's :p
14:06:50  <norbert79> like  Der Untergang or Goodby Lenin. Even der Todesbus is only a one DVD, but it's still something I am prud of being an owner
14:07:36  <norbert79> No chance getting that in Blueray, nor even outside of Germany, only through Amazon
14:07:51  <TrueBrain> the fun thing is, that geoip might not work on you, but the fact you write DVD's restricts the countries you can from :p
14:08:09  <TrueBrain> and it is BluRay :p While we are on the subject of correcting :D
14:08:14  <norbert79> Germany is also Region 2, and you can get region free based DVD players ;-)
14:08:22  <norbert79> Oh, knock it off
14:08:24  <norbert79> :D
14:08:29  <TrueBrain> stop writing it wrong :)
14:08:36  <norbert79> Stop arguing!
14:08:37  <norbert79> :D
14:08:40  <TrueBrain> I am not arguing :)
14:08:42  <TrueBrain> I am stating facts!
14:09:01  <TrueBrain> I never owned a DVD player which was region-locked
14:09:09  <TrueBrain> dunno if that is good or bad
14:09:31  <norbert79> Bad
14:09:34  <norbert79> Annoying more like
14:09:51  <norbert79> you cannot get US DVD movies getting played
14:10:00  <fjb> Hm, the DVD's scratches make everybody annoyed.
14:10:13  <TrueBrain> norbert79: I can
14:10:20  <norbert79> fjb: Well mine has only a few...
14:10:33  <norbert79> fjb: I could count the ammount of scratches on my bare hand
14:10:39  <TrueBrain> 'bare hand'
14:10:41  <TrueBrain> LOL!
14:10:42  <norbert79> for all my movies
14:10:42  <TrueBrain> owh, sorry :D
14:11:00  <norbert79> TrueBrain: ...knock it off already
14:11:01  <norbert79> :D
14:11:02  <TrueBrain> I should stop visualising stuff :D
14:11:34  <Eddi|zuHause> * norbert79 owns around 150-200 original DVD-s <-- i own not one single DVD...
14:11:38  <norbert79> Don't mix up bear with bare TrueBrain:)
14:11:54  <norbert79> or beer with bear :D
14:12:01  <fjb> Respectable people always wear gloves.
14:12:04  <TrueBrain> well, I am now truly wondering if you can count on your bare hands ... you can lift stuff with your bare hands, sure .. but counting?
14:12:20  <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: you mean mass murderers always wear gloves...
14:12:35  <norbert79> ok, replace bare with one
14:12:39  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: Better respect them.
14:12:43  <TrueBrain> yeah, that is more english-like norbert79 ;)
14:13:02  <norbert79> I would not be so sure, I know, that I have heard this expression
14:13:23  <TrueBrain> yeah, in the sense of strength
14:13:26  <TrueBrain> lfiting with your bare hands
14:13:43  <norbert79> not only that... Never mind, I am not feeling like Googling around for this
14:13:50  <norbert79> lets use one, period
14:13:50  <TrueBrain> "The court heard how Roberts strangled the woman with his bare hands."
14:13:54  <TrueBrain> is the book-example :D :D :D
14:14:00  <TrueBrain> of all examples
14:14:02  <TrueBrain> why that!
14:14:06  <norbert79> Damn grammar Yathsee :D
14:14:18  <norbert79> yes, I know it's written wrong
14:14:19  <TrueBrain> nah; this one was because I was truly wondering
14:14:51  <norbert79> hey, sometimes it's really hard to differentiate between languages... Sometimes I just end up mixing them
14:15:00  <norbert79> especially after one long day
14:15:01  <TrueBrain> I have the same :)
14:15:10  <TrueBrain> so if I read something I haven't read before, I want to know if it is valid, or just some other mix :)
14:15:29  <norbert79> You have good, you have to only speak two at the same time, I guess :)
14:15:53  <fjb> But bare hands can be better when counting with the help of your fingers. Mittens really make that hard.
14:16:29  <TrueBrain> <- I almost read kittens :p
14:16:53  <norbert79> ...god, lol...
14:17:09  <TrueBrain> not sure if it is worksafe or not
14:17:10  <TrueBrain> guess so ..
14:17:12  <TrueBrain> not sure :p
14:17:13  <TrueBrain> depends :)
14:17:31  <norbert79> Not-That-Safe for work
14:17:43  <norbert79> Instead of NSFW lets use NTSFW
14:18:02  <norbert79> (not too safe for work)
14:24:44  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: ok, this faq entry explains what's wrong, but now i still need to figure out which part needs updating...
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14:25:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose it's not kaffeine itself, but some part of xine or something...
14:25:08  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: stupid enough, for some software, you can't
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14:57:05  <dihedral> does the openttd compile farm look similar?
14:57:07  <dihedral> ^^
14:57:42  <Rubidium> no idea
14:58:12  * dihedral wants ^^
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15:04:29  <Eddi|zuHause> "in america they invented a car that runs just on water"
15:04:40  <Eddi|zuHause> "only requirement is that the water is from the gulf of mexico"
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15:19:44  <TrueBrain> dihedral: if you talk about the pretty lights on the left: yes, 'the compile farm' is located at a place that looks identical
15:19:49  <TrueBrain> if you talk about the stupid sign
15:19:51  <TrueBrain> sorry
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15:22:11  <Rubidium> I thought ours was pink and had ponies galloping around it
15:23:11  <TrueBrain> so you have been there!
15:24:14  <Eddi|zuHause> obviously, you would have ponies on a farm...
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15:50:21  <norbert79> Hah, Germany used drugs during Hungary-Germany in 1954...
15:53:25  <__ln__> Was that even forbidden at the time?
15:53:31  <norbert79> Yes
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15:54:58  <norbert79> We didn't need that, we beat the germans in the preparation match to 8-3, and it was not cleared for more, than 50 years why we could lose the final to 3-2
15:55:27  <norbert79> now it wasn't just because we were not given one legal goal by the referee, but the drugs too, as it seems
15:56:29  <norbert79> that loss crushed the hungarian football, and now this...
15:59:01  <norbert79> On the other hand it also puts a shadow on the Wonder of Bern even after 50 years... Not a good thing, to be honest...
15:59:16  * frosch123 wonders whether football would be less annoying nowadays if they had lost back then
15:59:35  <norbert79> Germany?
15:59:49  <frosch123> sure, who else?
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15:59:59  <norbert79> Yeah, sorry, got confused for a moment
16:00:04  <norbert79> No idea
16:00:41  <norbert79> we cannot tell neither, but one thing is for sure, that we could make it more often to the World Cup
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16:03:29  <dihedral> norbert79, looks like it is likely yet not 100% certain
16:03:47  <norbert79> dihedral: But very likely, unfortunetaly
16:03:58  <dihedral> it does not say that
16:04:22  <norbert79> I might grab that document later, of freely available
16:04:36  <norbert79> I mean the document showed in Leipzig
16:05:21  <norbert79> Btw Pervitin was also refered as Hitler-speed, so it's not something 'new'
16:06:42  <norbert79> used during ww2 by german pilots, tank-crewmen, and FJG
16:06:53  <__ln__> *shown
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16:12:32  * norbert79 sometimes thinks he has the worst grammar in English over here
16:14:28  <avdg> you are not alone :p
16:15:31  <Rubidium> if "here" is the set of people connecting to this channel from IBM, then I guess you have
16:15:55  <norbert79> thank you, now I feel much better :D
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16:36:00  <xiong> I see no hotkey for Land Area Information Tool in regular gameplay.
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16:37:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what i'm doing wrong... i tried to increase the impact of acceleration in the game, so trains don't reach their top speed immediately...
16:38:08  <Eddi|zuHause> so i added a factor "/4" to train_cmd.cpp:2829:	uint spd = this->subspeed + accel;
16:38:40  <Eddi|zuHause> that made the trains accelerate slower, but i can't manually stop them anymore then. they always go full speed as soon as i hit the stop button
16:39:16  <Belugas> whooooo... signs of the times... i can resist at the desire to blast users on forums
16:39:24  <Belugas> i'm getting wise and peasceful
16:39:29  <Belugas> peaceful
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16:42:18  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: do you use the original acceleration model?
16:42:51  <SmatZ> probably in CmdStartStopVehicle(), there is a simple check for original/improved acceleration model
16:44:00  *** theholyduck [~holyduck@] has joined #openttd
16:44:31  <fjb> Belugas: You are getting old.
16:46:04  <norbert79> ok time for going home.,.. See you everyone
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16:46:55  <Rubidium> fjb: everyone is getting older, even I am :(
16:47:33  <Belugas> yeah.. i guess...
16:47:55  <Belugas> not you, Rubidium :) you still ahave a cutty baby face :D
16:47:59  * Belugas runs away!
16:48:10  <SmatZ> :D
16:48:34  <fjb> Better baby face than baby belly. :-)
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16:50:09  <Belugas> or big daddy belly...
16:50:13  <Belugas> hum
16:50:19  <Belugas> ho..,. I STILL HAVE TOES!!!
16:51:17  * fjb thought Belugas had fins.
16:51:38  <Belugas> lol
16:51:47  <Belugas> a cookie fish for you :)
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16:56:56  <fjb> Ships for the fish.
16:57:39  <Belugas> can I close FS4184 ?
16:57:40  <Belugas> can I close FS4184 ?
16:57:41  <Belugas> can I close FS4184 ?
16:57:41  <Belugas> can I close FS4184 ?
16:57:42  <Belugas> can I close FS4184 ?
16:57:42  <Belugas> can I close FS4184 ?
16:57:45  <Belugas> PLEEEEASE!!!!
16:59:13  <planetmaker> go ahead, if you ask me ;-)
17:00:27  <Belugas> gnignignigni!:D
17:00:33  <Belugas> i love closing
17:00:38  <avdg> happy now? :)
17:00:38  <planetmaker> :-)
17:00:44  <Belugas> and Moriarty? not a friend of mine
17:01:01  <planetmaker> loool. You were VERY kind in your wording
17:02:48  <Prof_Frink> No shit, Sherlock.
17:03:29  <fjb> Oh no... stupid bug report...
17:06:21  <Belugas> planetmaker, be kind, or he might request to reopen it...
17:06:29  <dihedral> @fs 4184
17:06:29  <DorpsGek> dihedral:
17:06:55  *** nicfer [~nicfer@] has joined #openttd
17:06:59  <planetmaker> lazy... ;-)
17:07:04  <dihedral> yarp ^^
17:07:44  *** azaghal [~azaghal@] has joined #openttd
17:07:49  <Rubidium> quack
17:09:24  *** andythenorth_ [] has joined #openttd
17:12:49  <Prof_Frink> Rubidiuck
17:17:31  *** Biolunar [] has joined #openttd
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17:25:00  *** Joni_ is now known as Joni-
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17:38:46  <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: i'm using realistic model, but the change i did is outside of such a check...
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17:40:18  <xiong> Okay, well, I've learned a little; enough to want to start over in 1850 again. So, this is the perfect time to install grfs. Anyone have a suggestion for essential grfs, besides FIRS?
17:41:36  <Eddi|zuHause> hardly any train grfs go back to 1850
17:41:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i think NARS starts around 1870ish
17:42:06  <Eddi|zuHause> most vehicle sets start 1920
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17:43:12  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21040 /trunk/src/lang/ (german.txt norwegian_bokmal.txt norwegian_nynorsk.txt):
17:43:12  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:43:12  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: german - 4 changes by planetmaker
17:43:12  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 3 changes by somaen
17:43:12  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: norwegian_nynorsk - 5 changes by somaen
17:43:36  <xiong> Well, I get some early trains. Not really my question, though. Just want to know *generally* who feels what grfs are essential, extra nifty, or you-gotta-have-it, or whatever.
17:44:02  *** fonsinchen [] has joined #openttd
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17:44:17  <xiong> I figure some guys must have strong opinions.
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17:55:29  <andythenorth_> xiong: NARS 2, HEQS, FISH
17:56:01  <xiong> Mm.
17:56:19  <Eddi|zuHause>
17:56:54  <xiong> TTRS?
17:58:11  <xiong> Relatively innocuous dating terms always sound so much more underground-exciting in German.
17:59:23  <xiong> "Der avatar chat. Klick hier."
18:01:19  <xiong> Translated: "At our university've got a few jokers pigs released on campus. You have previously written in ink "1", "2", and "4" on the pigs. There was a week long search operation for the third pig."
18:01:36  <xiong> Those crazy kids, eh?
18:03:06  <dihedral> nice one Eddi|zuHause :)
18:03:40  <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: you might be the dialectic masochist here, but i have no clue what you actually said
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18:06:33  <xiong> Eddi|zuHause, You linked, I looked.
18:07:31  <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: but none of what you said was even remotely related to the page i linked...
18:08:32  <xiong> I quoted.
18:08:53  <Belugas> thus the ""
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18:09:15  <xiong> Belugas++ # for the win
18:09:28  <Belugas> ?
18:09:45  <Belugas> ++, or #, not both!
18:09:49  <Belugas> even more, DELPHI!
18:09:50  <Belugas> hehehe
18:10:03  <Belugas> that , of course, is a joke...
18:10:07  <xiong> NM, Belugas. Sell me a grf. What should I install? What *must* I install to run with the kool kidz?
18:10:25  <Belugas> hem...
18:10:28  <Belugas> none?
18:10:32  * Belugas is a bit purist
18:11:18  <Belugas> plus... ain't the kind to make efforst to please the kool kids... apart mine.. bt... another matter
18:11:23  <Eddi|zuHause> the only thing i really use for _every_ game is stolentrees and dutch catenary... everything else can vary
18:12:13  <Belugas> mmh... i have to admit i have a sentimental preference over TTRS, whatever the version
18:12:41  <Eddi|zuHause> strange... i kinda hate TTRS...
18:12:44  <Rubidium> toyland!
18:13:05  <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause, 'cause it is what got me into deving :)
18:13:24  <xiong> TTRS vs FIRS; some issue. Seems FIRS requires TTRS 3.0b or later?
18:13:32  <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: quite possibly... but i see no sense in green houses...
18:13:46  <Belugas> green?
18:13:50  *** FloSoft [] has joined #openttd
18:14:06  <xiong> 3.02b or later. The 'check online content' button gives me the wrong version?
18:14:14  *** pugi [] has joined #openttd
18:14:32  <Rubidium> # Kelle filla saba nani norou :)
18:18:17  <Belugas> BOUM BOUM!
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18:19:43  * Rubidium wonders whether Belugas had to search that
18:20:57  <Belugas> yup :)
18:21:24  <Rubidium> :(
18:21:47  <Belugas> to be honest, i don't listen to radio
18:21:48  <Belugas> at all
18:22:26  <Belugas> i say that with in mind the fact that this must be a song playing over the radio...
18:22:28  <Belugas> of course
18:22:30  <Rubidium> but... but... this song is the intro of a TV series and it's used in a movie!
18:22:38  <Belugas> it is?
18:22:58  <Rubidium> hmm, maybe not quite intro... but at least used quite often in that TV series
18:23:07  <Belugas> which is...?
18:24:08  <Belugas> mmh... never heard of that song
18:24:10  <Belugas> honest
18:24:20  <Belugas> thus, never saw that tv series either
18:25:13  <Rubidium> it's from "Dead like me"
18:25:54  <xiong> Hm. FIRS + TTRS requires OTTD 1.1.0 or later. What am I getting into here? Does 1.1.0 work or is it just dev stuff?
18:27:40  <xiong> "Latest release in trunk is r21038, released on 2010-10-25 18:00 UTC." -- That's yesterday. What is policy on trunk commits in this project?
18:29:32  <andythenorth_> we just try it
18:29:38  <Eddi|zuHause> if you ever had trouble understanding the lyrics of a song:
18:30:57  * Belugas is going to pick up the dvd at the rental store. it does not seems that it' playing in canada, or at least not on local network
18:31:10  <Belugas> subject sounds marvelous, from readings
18:31:37  <Belugas> xiong, it's called 'nightlies"
18:31:40  <Belugas> for every night
18:32:05  <Belugas> note that YOUR night may not ne EVERY ONE's night :)
18:32:51  <xiong> andythenorth_, Yeh. I'd really like to know. Does trunk commit policy say, "At least other one guy tested it"; "I tested it."; or "I think it might work" --?
18:33:25  <dihedral> is he at it again?
18:34:15  <planetmaker> [20:15]	<Eddi|zuHause>	Belugas: quite possibly... but i see no sense in green houses... <-- you just haven't seen the world then
18:34:18  <planetmaker> or not much of it
18:34:19  <andythenorth_> xiong I don't know
18:34:29  <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: the quality control is not public
18:35:03  <xiong> Eddi|zuHause, That can be taken in two completely different ways.
18:36:52  <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: language is totally not fun if it's not ambiguous ;)
18:37:14  <xiong> I'd prefer a clear statement -- not necessarily a precise one but a clear one.
18:38:18  <xiong> "You should try running the nightly build; it will probably work." "You should only try running the nightly if you have stored backups offsite, preferably out of town; the resulting crash may trigger a devastating earthquake along the San Andreas Fault."
18:39:16  <Eddi|zuHause> yes.
18:39:23  <Eddi|zuHause> one of those ;)
18:39:59  <Eddi|zuHause> but it's not our fault when it's andreas' fault
18:41:36  <Belugas> don't use nightlies, compile your own one!
18:43:02  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
18:43:46  <xiong> Belugas, I write code. I have done it all from the ground up. I know how hairy it can be. I know there's a lot of indeterminacy, too. Despite all this, I'm neither brave nor bold. OTTD is a recreation; my regular work is plenty enough stressful; I spend enough energy trying to get it to work.
18:44:01  <xiong> A little honesty would go a long way here.
18:44:30  *** theholyduck [~holyduck@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:45:03  <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: well... then it's: "it's probably the first one, but don't blame us if it's the second one"
18:45:26  <Eddi|zuHause> the license clearly states that there's no warranty whatsoever
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18:47:17  <xiong> Yeh. That's obvious. We know that. What do I have to say or do to elevate myself to the status of thinking person around here?
18:48:33  <xiong> I asked a pretty specific, narrow question: "What's the trunk commit policy?" You could say. You could say, even, "Well, there's a bunch of us and we just agreed to give each other commit access and no, we never really discussed what policy on trunk commits should be." I'm a grownup; I can take it.
18:48:35  <Eddi|zuHause> less talking more doing?
18:48:44  <xiong> What doing do you want?
18:48:59  <xiong> I'm playing a game. Do you want me to upload screenshots?
18:49:34  <andythenorth_> Eddi|zuHause: give him a straight answer :)
18:49:36  <xiong> Do you want some kind of idiot play-by-play?
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18:49:42  <andythenorth_> he did ask a straight question
18:49:58  <dihedral> <Eddi|zuHause> less talking more doing? <- from that i can only assume it's about xoing
18:50:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm never giving straight answers... it's not in my nature ;)
18:50:35  <xiong> "Well. Today, I decided to survey my map before building. I started placing signs with a single ' char in each, every 16 tiles each way."
18:51:04  <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: that's talking again ;)
18:51:12  <xiong> "Then, I said, I have already screwed up this game beyond salvage. I will start a new game. Before I do this, I'll ask around and see if I shouldn't add more grfs."
18:51:23  <andythenorth_> xiong: I would just try the nightly and see what happens
18:51:32  <xiong> Eddi|zuHause, That's what I'm *doing*. You complained that I wasn't doing. I'm doing.
18:51:55  <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: well, the emphasis was really on the talking bit.
18:52:03  <xiong> Do you not see that you will only ever know when I talk? You will not know when I do, because that is not visible to you.
18:52:17  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that is the entire point ;)
18:52:17  <xiong> That is so... basic.
18:53:00  <xiong> So, you have no idea what proportion of my time is spent asking a question or trying to get info; and what proportion is spent playing the game or studying-up the docs.
18:53:05  *** Keiya_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:53:09  <Eddi|zuHause> (am i the only one that has the feeling that i am getting rude?...)
18:53:40  <xiong> You're just having a hard time seeing it from my side. Just because you close your eyes, the world doesn't disappear.
18:54:03  <xiong> Just because you don't see me doing productive things, doesn't mean I don't.
18:54:17  <xiong> Playing OTTD may not be productive but it's not my whole life, either.
18:54:22  *** JVassie_ [~James@] has joined #openttd
18:55:28  <xiong> If you want to reserve a chan for OTTD developers only, may I suggest you call it #openttd-dev and make it invite-only? Or put a descriptive topic on that chan and heave weenies out the door instanter?
18:55:56  <Eddi|zuHause> they have that channel, but it's conveniently not even called that ;)
18:55:59  <xiong> I'm not a dev; I don't know enough about it to develop for it; I'm not a Python guy anyway; and I've got my own stuff.
18:56:00  <Belugas> commit trunk policy: do not commit before compile farm kickins in (althoguh it might not be true anymore)
18:56:28  <Belugas> complie your stuff before commiting (althought i've been known to not follow, and am not the only one :) )
18:57:03  <Belugas> show your stuff to other devs,in case they'll spot a stupidity you've written withoutn even knowing
18:57:07  <xiong> I'd rather not be hated because I ask about something that's new to me. I'm not a fool; I don't blunder about asking other people to tie my shoes for me. Come over to *my* patch someday; see how you do.
18:57:25  <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: what i'm really and in all honestly saying is: you have the problem, that when you start talking, and the conversation is not going your way, you don't ever stop. this has already landed you on half the channel's ignore lists. your only luck is that the banlist is generally very rarely used.
18:57:34  <Belugas> respect the syntax for commit message, although there is a script that will kick you in the face if you don't
18:58:02  <Belugas> oh... no trailing white lines...
18:58:03  <xiong> It's not a business of "going my way", Eddi|zuHause. It's a business of "will you kindly answer a civil question directly".
18:58:11  <Belugas> there is a script that will kick you if you do
18:58:28  <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: yes, that is the same thing.
18:58:33  <Belugas> shut up you both, i can't hear me writing
18:59:14  <Belugas> now... see? i've lost my inspiration
18:59:20  <xiong> Eddi|zuHause, How would you like it if you came over to my patch and asked a civil question and were treated rudely? Would you say, "That's fine"?
18:59:21  <Belugas> go on, keep on fighting
18:59:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sorry Belugas :(
18:59:37  *** JVassie [~James@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:59:40  <xiong> I'm not fighting; I'm trying to show the gentleman some reason.
18:59:57  <xiong> I didn't come here today to say, "You guys suck."
19:00:01  <andythenorth_> xiong: reason isn't highly valued around here ;)
19:00:11  <dihedral> lol
19:00:24  <andythenorth_> here's a short, non-comprehensive list of things that are valued
19:00:26  <xiong> andythenorth_, That's... I lack the adjective.
19:00:59  <xiong> It is not possible to develop tools for a digital computer without the ability to reason abstractly, in detail, and with a high degree of clarity.
19:01:16  <andythenorth_> 1. sensible questions about updating wiki for greater accuracy
19:01:32  <andythenorth_> 2. well-informed questions about the direction to take with a patch
19:01:43  <xiong> If you ask me the hex value of the top byte of my memory, I will tell you exactly and I will tell you without a great deal of hoofrawarw.
19:01:59  <xiong> I won't say, "penguin".
19:02:00  <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: fact is, since you are here, the amount of lines per day has tripled.
19:02:25  * andythenorth_ tries to think of an actual 3rd thing that is valued
19:02:25  <xiong> And...?
19:02:41  <andythenorth_> 3. feature requests from andythenorth - highly valued
19:02:54  <Eddi|zuHause> because discussions with you tend to go out of hand, maybe because you're not compatible to our culture or something...
19:03:01  <Belugas> YeahYeahYeahYeahYeahYeahYeahYeahYeahYeahYeah
19:03:04  <xiong> andythenorth_, There isn't a *huge* need for asking about the wiki; the wiki has talk pages built into the back sides of every page.
19:03:07  <fonsinchen> xiong: that means I'm having a hard time seeing the interesting information between all that blurb.
19:03:15  <andythenorth_> what else is valued here?
19:03:23  <andythenorth_> we should make an 'official' list
19:03:30  <andythenorth_> references to moules-frites
19:03:35  <Eddi|zuHause> green lines are valued ;)
19:03:37  <xiong> fonsinchen, All I asked was, What's the trunk commit policy?
19:03:46  <andythenorth_> it was a fair question
19:03:59  <fonsinchen> you got an answer. Discussion can be closed now.
19:04:08  <Belugas> xiong, i answered already
19:04:27  <Belugas> but. don't make a wiki page of this, it;s not usefull ;)
19:04:31  <xiong> "Eddi|zuHause> xiong: the quality control is not public" -- not a fair answer; a bizarre answer. And now he complains that I'm trying to clarify that?
19:04:56  <dihedral> gr...
19:05:10  <dihedral> even having someone on your ignore list is not enough for some nicks
19:05:19  <xiong> fonsinchen, We're no longer discussing the trunk commit policy; now, for some reason, Eddi|zuHause wants to discuss my excessive talk and lack of "doing". I don't know why but I swear, I didn't bring that up.
19:05:28  <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: that's why i tend to not have ignore lists.
19:05:45  <andythenorth_> xiong: let it go :)
19:05:56  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth_> xiong: let it go :) <-- that
19:06:04  <Eddi|zuHause> is exactly what i mean
19:06:15  <xiong> Okay, well, you push and you wonder why I react.
19:06:39  <xiong> You ask a question, you make a statement about me, personally; then you wonder why the discussion goes that way.
19:07:00  <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes i'm thinking you are 14, and have not yet understood that "being right" is not the only thing there is in the world.
19:07:44  <xiong> Here's what I'm going to do -- and I don't mean to say it rudely but simply out of respect for the rest of the chan. I'm going to put you on /ignore, so I won't be tempted to respond. It's not because I don't think you know anything but because you can't refrain from provoking me.
19:08:20  <Belugas> pom te pom
19:08:30  <andythenorth_> xiong:  it's easier to just put him on ignore and not announce it :)
19:09:13  <dihedral> can you not tell him to ignore *
19:09:22  <xiong> Yeh, well, it's done. I don't want anybody to wonder why I'm not satisfied with an answer I get to a question. Now you all know, it's because I didn't see it in the first place.
19:09:28  <Eddi|zuHause> well... some people just don't deserve my wisdom...
19:09:28  <dihedral> or do /join #openttd.xiongs-world
19:10:08  <Belugas> are you satisfied with my answer, xiong?
19:10:20  <Belugas> answers, actually, i gave 2
19:11:00  <xiong> Belugas, You were busy answering me in detail, rationally, and reasonably; I appreciated that. I was busy defending my non-existent lack of action. I didn't read it clearly or fully, or give it proper attention. I'm sorry.
19:11:24  <andythenorth_> xiong: one thing never valued around here is defending anything :)
19:11:58  <xiong> andythenorth_, I don't live like that. And I agree that most people cannot handle metatalk about any topic; so I will move on.
19:12:28  <xiong> Belugas, I will summarize that all as "Nightly should work without setting fire to the rug." And that's fine.
19:12:53  <Belugas> that is a good description indeed :)
19:13:42  <Belugas> but again, if a nightly is broken, it's not the end of the world either...\
19:19:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know if his reading comprehension is so bad... but i said exactly the same...
19:19:41  <Zuu> Did a nightly yet set fire to the rug?
19:20:17  <Zuu> (I haven't really followed your discussion)
19:23:07  <Eddi|zuHause> it's like at the first answer that he doesn't like, it flips a switch inside him, and he reads nothing afterwards, only discusses why he didn't like that answer...
19:26:40  <xiong> Hm. Well, the nightly will run okay from inside /usr/share/games/openttd/ but not from /usr/games/; it doesn't matter whether I cp on ln -s it.
19:26:54  <xiong> s/on/or/
19:27:38  <Zuu> Oh ok
19:28:30  <xiong> No, that's not right either. The Debian package, which is 1.0.4, installs an 'openttd-wrapper' shell script to trap STDERR; this is not part of the nightly build. Apparently, it has issues.
19:29:19  * Zuu turns his head to tt-forums
19:32:08  <xiong> Throwing away the wrapper and running from /usr/share/games/openttd works.
19:34:08  <Belugas> no Zuu!!! DOn't!!! You'll either run mad or we'll loose you!
19:34:34  <xiong> Somebody worked hard on NewGRF Settings window. Who?
19:34:42  <xiong> ++ for him.
19:34:45  <Zuu> Well, looking at my post count, I would already been mad if I had easy to get mad at tt-forums ^^
19:37:02  <Belugas> maybe you don't react the same as me :)
19:37:24  <Belugas> some users have that tendancy to get on my nerves... big freaking time!
19:38:00  <Zuu> I find it relaxing to visit tt-forums.
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19:38:34  * xiong for coffee
19:39:17  <xiong> Nightly didn't crash right away. Seems okay. A 256 tile map is still numbered from 1 to 254.
19:39:48  <Zuu> That's because you don't see all tiles
19:39:59  <Zuu> There are some hidden tiles for data storage.
19:40:10  <Terkhen> why should it crash?
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19:41:21  <xiong> It shouldn't, Terkhen. It runs; that's a good thing.
19:42:10  <Zuu> Belugas: Plus, currently I'm very close to the upper limit of my "flat rate" on my cell phone which is my only connection at the moment. So I can't watch TV and tt-forums uses suprisingly low bandwith.
19:42:20  <xiong> And I have got both HEQS and TTRS working in it, too. Thanks andythenorth_ and Belugas.
19:42:52  <xiong> You're tethering, Zuu? Cool, in theory.
19:43:09  <Zuu> tethering?
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19:47:12  * Belugas does nt even have internet on his cell phone
19:47:17  <Belugas> jealous i am
19:47:24  <Belugas> i have music though!
19:47:27  <Belugas> 4GIG
19:47:29  <Eddi|zuHause> some fancy word they invented for connecting your laptop to your phone, so they can bill you extra for allowing it
19:47:33  <Belugas> that's what matters
19:48:05  <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause, it's the exact definition :)
19:48:07  <Zuu> I don't pay extra to connect my laptop to my cellphone. It even uses the same "flat rate" as browsing on the phone.
19:49:19  <Zuu> The problem is just that they only include 5 GB of data in their "flat rate"
19:50:12  <Eddi|zuHause> didn't someone once sue for not calling these "flatrates"?
19:50:32  <Eddi|zuHause> since it's illegal mis-advertising?
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19:52:38  <xiong> Zuu, So-called, I guess, because the cable that connects the laptop to the phone is a 'tether'. Dunno.
19:52:41  <dihedral> it's labled 'fair use flatrate'
19:53:05  <xiong> Imagine the phone floating up above the laptop like a little balloon.
19:53:18  <dihedral> ...
19:53:50  <Zuu> xiong: So if I use bluetooth, it's a maglev instead of a ballon?
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19:56:49  <xiong> Ah. Well, with bluetooth, I don't know if the term is 'tethering'. Perhaps still, yes. Dunno.
19:57:54  <xiong> I'm a pretty old guy, zuu; I got my start when you programmed with patch cables. Punchcards weren't new but they hadn't yet completely overtaken patch cables. Digital hadn't get cemented its superiority over analog.
19:58:30  <xiong> s/get/yet/
19:59:37  <xiong> By the time I entered professional life, punchcards were out and so was a lot of stuff: mag core, disk drives the size of refrigerators. But you know, I still worked once in a plant making those legacy drives.
19:59:44  <Zuu> Possible an old word then. I translated 'tether' to my native language, and still didn't got it. ^^
20:00:26  <xiong> So, a lot of that modern stuff, I'm not up on. I consider 'smart' phones silly. I want a phone so I can speak to people. If I want a computer, I want a laptop at minimum.
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20:01:17  * Zuu finds it a bit silly that you can't go to a phone store and ask questions regarding the sound quality of the phones they sell.
20:01:27  <xiong> Um, you tie a rope around a cow's neck and the other end to a stake you drive into the earth. The rope is a tether (noun); the cow is tethered (verb).
20:01:47  <xiong> I find it outrageous that you can't stand there in the store and try before you buy.
20:02:04  *** Keiya [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:02:45  <xiong> The first space walks were tethered. This was before MMU.
20:03:32  <Zuu> I usually make use of my hearing impairment as an excuse to test phones before buying it. It sometimes works. :-)
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20:06:56  <SpComb> I tethered with bluetooth back in 2005 or something!
20:07:21  <SpComb> thankfully finnish telcos aren't as full of shit as e.g. the US ones
20:07:29  <Belugas> are you using special devices, Zuu? or are they all adaptable to yo?
20:07:31  <SpComb> never heard of charging extra for tethering
20:07:31  <Belugas> you
20:08:08  <xiong> Damn, I should have asked. Is there a limit to the number of free signs?
20:08:33  <xiong> I want to put in about 300.
20:08:35  <Zuu> Belugas: For hearing? Not necessarily. At work I got a special headset for the land line which I can and sometimes use with my cellphone.
20:09:18  <SmatZ> xiong: nope, there is a total limit of 65000 signs in the game
20:09:25  <SmatZ> sum for all players
20:09:31  <Zuu> I've tried some different headsets with cables to my hearing aids but they usually sucks in one way or another.
20:10:13  <xiong> Cool. I'm not going to break anything. Thanks SmatZ++
20:10:16  <Belugas> thanks Zuu :)
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20:10:49  <SmatZ> you are welcome, xiong :)
20:11:06  <glx> here internet == www
20:11:15  <xiong> I'm surveying a new map every 16 tiles. Then, I mean to sketch out the whole map and figure out what is where, instead of trying to groove on it and improvise ad hoc.
20:11:32  <xiong> glx, internet >> www
20:11:48  <Zuu> Belugas: are you also hearing impaired or why "thanks?"
20:11:57  <glx> no for our mobile phone providers
20:12:08  <glx> mail is charged extra
20:12:36  <glx> and some even disable gmail access through www
20:12:56  <Belugas> Zuu: thanks for the information.  no, my sound input system is perfect :).  yes, i'm curious by nature and your experience intrigued me.  So i now know more
20:13:03  <glx> but well it's Orange ;)
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20:13:37  <Zuu> Belugas: Oh ok. :-)
20:13:49  <Belugas> man... i would be so sad not having my hears :(  i mean... not able to correctly hear my guitar, my son, my wife... MUSIC!
20:14:22  <SmatZ> [22:14:54] <glx> and some even disable gmail access through www <== and they still call that "internet" in ads I suppose
20:14:36  <glx> yes
20:14:46  <glx> full internet :)
20:15:09  <glx> because everybody knows internet is www
20:15:13  <SmatZ> :p
20:15:27  <Zuu> Music do not require perfect hearing. Not hearing exactly what they are singing about doesn't stop you from enyoing the rythms and melody.
20:15:43  <glx> and of course you're not allowed to use your phone as modem
20:15:47  <SpComb> and it's all about the bass anyways
20:15:54  <SpComb> FEEL the music!
20:16:50  <Belugas> well... i always pictured that sounds would be like heared under towels or something kllike that, you know, blurry, no details
20:16:50  <Eddi|zuHause> there was a time in germany where it was forbidden by law to hook a "not certified" modem to your phone line
20:16:59  <Zuu> hehe, say that again at the night club. People usually go to the bar when there comes a song with a bad melody but really sweet bass. I on the other hand go to the bar when tha bass sucks. :-p
20:17:14  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: that is understandable
20:17:42  <Eddi|zuHause> the problem was that it took years to get a modem certified, and there were practically none available
20:17:49  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: I think we still have such a law
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20:18:02  <SmatZ> you can't put anything non-certified into the phone outlet
20:18:18  <SmatZ> it makes sense imo :)
20:18:22  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's different now that the phone system is not in state hand anymore
20:18:23  <Zuu> Indeed
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20:33:32  <frosch123> night
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20:35:14  <Belugas> night all
20:35:48  <Zuu> Night Belugas
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20:41:54  * andythenorth_ wonders why white LEDs don't go 'pop' when 9v is put through them :o
20:43:07  <SpComb> what do they do instead?
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20:44:51  <andythenorth_> light up
20:45:06  <andythenorth_> they light up bright for one polarity, and less bright for another
20:45:10  <glx> voltage is not a problem if amperage is low enough
20:45:11  <andythenorth_> that is also unusual :P
20:45:22  <andythenorth_> glx they are in parallel with two motors
20:45:41  <andythenorth_> 6x1.5 AA cells
20:45:55  <andythenorth_> dunno more than that
20:46:11  <glx> the motors eat all the amp
20:46:55  * andythenorth_ wonders if Lego traction motors should be connected in series or parallel
20:47:02  <andythenorth_> it's parallel by default
20:47:06  <andythenorth_> but I am rewiring them anyway :P
20:47:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd put them in parallel unless you run really high voltage...
20:47:40  <glx> I only have the 4.5V version
20:47:52  <andythenorth_> soldering iron is non-standard for lego building
20:48:11  <Eddi|zuHause> soldering and plastic don't really mix well ;)
20:48:44  <glx> but they melt well :)
20:49:52  <Eddi|zuHause> should avoid that in enclosed rooms :p
20:50:37  <glx> normal soldering in enclosed rooms is not good either
20:51:09  <andythenorth_> I had no small drill earlier, so I've been 'drilling' lego by heating a pin in the gas flame....
20:51:28  <glx> hmm why ?
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20:51:48  <andythenorth_> needed to make a path for some wires
20:51:48  <glx> if you need a hole use technic parts
20:51:57  <Eddi|zuHause> aren't there lego pieces with holes in them?
20:52:52  <andythenorth_> I needed to route some wires in this:
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20:53:47  <SpComb> weird stuff
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21:07:28  <Zuu> wired stuff* ^^
21:07:52  <Zuu> night all
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21:28:30  <Terkhen> good night
21:28:57  <SmatZ> good night, Terkhen
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21:49:21  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r21041 /trunk/src/newgrf_object.cpp: -Change: [NewGRF] make object var 60 return the object id even when the relative tile is not part of the same object
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22:01:22  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21042 /trunk/ -Change: make it possible to make .tar.xz bundles
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22:13:09  <Eddi|zuHause> is ".xz" a placeholder or does it actually stand for something?
22:14:09  <SmatZ> eXtra Zuppper
22:14:09  <planetmaker> the same thing as bzip or gzip. Just xz
22:14:30  <SmatZ> (no, I don't know what the 'x' stands for)
22:14:31  <planetmaker> and it's eXtra Zupper ;-)
22:14:35  <SmatZ> ;-)
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22:25:32  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21043 /trunk/os/debian/rules: -Fix: [Debian] Don't try to remove files that aren't installed anymore
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23:03:14  <SmatZ> Keiya: you really enjoy connecting and disconnecting, don't you? :p
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