Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:59 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:18:09 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-119.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 00:20:04 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.19.207.184] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 00:25:18 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:40:55 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 00:43:25 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Quit: Forlater kanalen] 00:50:36 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-44-115.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:52:33 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-35-250.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:54:45 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-111-154.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 00:54:48 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 00:58:46 *** Mortomes|Work [~MortomesW@mail.qps.nl] has joined #openttd 00:59:36 *** fanioz [~fanioz@223.255.225.4] has joined #openttd 01:05:23 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5FA5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 01:18:33 *** Mortomes|Work [~MortomesW@mail.qps.nl] has quit [] 01:20:12 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@99.135.230.123] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:26:19 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:616c:b1ec:424a:bb4] has quit [Quit: bye] 01:33:26 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@adsl-99-129-146-48.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 01:35:56 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 01:48:34 <xiong> Couldn't I used to hurry up the tooltip by right-clicking? 01:50:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i would give you the correct answer, but you ignore me. 02:01:37 <Eddi|zuHause> @commit 20435 02:01:37 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Commit by rubidium :: r20435 /trunk/src (8 files) (2010-08-10 15:49:35 UTC) 02:01:38 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: -Codechange: move spritegroup to GRFFilePropsBase and prepare it for more spritegroups 02:02:10 <Eddi|zuHause> someone suggested this was breaking the houses 02:05:27 <Eddi|zuHause> and apparentl there'll be an Avatar 2 and 3 movie 02:35:01 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 02:42:30 <lugo> 5~5~ 02:42:32 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:46:32 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:53:08 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 02:58:44 *** azaghal_ [~azaghal@109.207.46.250] has joined #openttd 03:04:40 *** azaghal [~azaghal@109.207.46.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:07:17 *** fani0z [~fanioz@180.214.233.28] has joined #openttd 03:08:51 <xiong> Is it remotely possible that planting trees in town inhibits growth? I mean, they have to cut down the trees before they can begin construction.... 03:13:22 *** fanioz [~fanioz@223.255.225.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:16:46 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 03:19:22 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c1f9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:24:03 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:28:43 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 03:29:05 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:45:57 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-119.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:16:12 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-088-076-108-080.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 04:30:00 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 04:36:31 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.160.178] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:37:30 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.160.178] has joined #openttd 04:39:47 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:40:09 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 04:44:57 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 04:49:15 *** davis [~b@p5B28BE12.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:52:32 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:53:29 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B777CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:53:32 *** GIORDANO [724f377e@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 04:53:45 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74715.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:04:19 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 05:05:27 *** davis [~b@p5B28BE12.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:10:48 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:15:49 *** fani0z is now known as fanioz 05:29:12 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 05:31:27 <GIORDANO> Sepi banget. Pada tidur semua. :P 05:31:38 <GIORDANO> Very quiet. In all sleep. : P 05:32:28 *** GIORDANO [724f377e@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 05:32:55 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.61.251] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:44:16 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 05:49:50 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:52:33 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has joined #openttd 05:59:36 *** TinoDidriksen [~TinoDidri@alpha.visl.sdu.dk] has quit [Quit: http://tinodidriksen.com/] 06:00:29 *** TinoDidriksen [~TinoDidri@alpha.visl.sdu.dk] has joined #openttd 06:22:19 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe83de00-38.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 06:22:28 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0b8955.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:26:23 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 06:41:42 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I see no reason why that revision would be causing "some" problem 06:42:10 <Terkhen> good morning 06:46:45 <Rubidium> morning Terkhen 06:54:23 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 06:58:21 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:59:11 *** Mortomes|Work [~MortomesW@mail.qps.nl] has joined #openttd 07:01:57 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:05:56 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 07:08:54 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice2n2.emea.ibm.com] has joined #openttd 07:09:28 *** norbert79 is now known as Guest943 07:09:52 *** Guest943 is now known as norbert79 07:18:27 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 07:22:33 <norbert79> Good morning people... Guys in Germany: Did the morning breeze of frost also hit you? 07:30:54 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 07:32:07 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B085.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:35:19 <planetmaker> moin 07:39:15 <Rubidium> moi 07:43:57 <dihedral> morning 07:45:45 <dihedral> <norbert79> [28 Oct 2010 - 09:25:06] Good morning people... Guys in Germany: Did the morning breeze of frost also hit you? <- last week ^^ 07:46:32 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 07:53:05 <norbert79> I guess it arrived in time here... I always follow german weather reports. Normally what you have there, we will get the same within ~5 days :) 07:53:52 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:54:19 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B085.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:56:35 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B085.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:57:41 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5FA5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:01:48 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B085.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:03:51 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B085.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:10:12 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: Quit] 08:13:00 *** GIORDANO [724f377e@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 08:16:25 *** GIORDANO [724f377e@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [] 08:17:21 <norbert79> We just escaped the fury of the CapsLock man :) 08:23:34 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 08:31:42 *** X-2 [~X-2@a83-163-133-37.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:33:13 <dihedral> # hey Mr. CapsLock .... 08:38:18 <planetmaker> MrCapslock :-D 08:44:00 <norbert79> Our net-hero... The CapsLock man! :) What's up in the sky? Is it a character? Noo... Is it some numerical text? It's all written in CAPS! It's CapsLock Man! 08:54:02 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 08:55:16 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:01:17 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:08:04 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-16-114-12.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:14:55 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:20:56 <dihedral> planetmaker, that nick would be confusing if he used it because it would be a MRCAPSLOCK ^^ 09:26:37 * Rubidium wonders when APTX, CIA-2, G and X-2 get flamed for using a caps locked nick 09:27:22 <X-2> Or for being highlighted. 09:28:15 <Eddi|zuHause> depends how ill-designed your metrics of caps-ness is... 09:28:48 <planetmaker> I'm not sure whether I'll flame someone, if they just highlight X-2 :-P 09:29:53 <X-2> Oh flamers leave me cold anyways :P 09:30:17 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: you should tell his highness that he should use action14 as designed and all his issues would be gone. He seems to not even read my postings, but rather prefer to lament and cry 09:30:25 <planetmaker> sorry "highness" 09:34:09 <planetmaker> I'm quite sure he didn't use both, VRSN and MINV which both are required for backward compatibility 09:35:15 <Eddi|zuHause> except you mean "His Holyness" ;) 09:35:44 <planetmaker> my bad :-P 09:40:46 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 09:48:11 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:59:49 <Eddi|zuHause> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action14#_Setting_name_quot_INFO_quot_gt_quot_PARA_quot_gt_lt_setting_number_gt_gt_quot_NAME_quot_and_description_quot_INFO_quot_gt_quot_PARA_quot_gt_lt_setting_number_gt_gt_quot_DESC_quot_ <-- i think in this example a "00" is too much 10:03:49 *** Joni- [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-fe00dc00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:08:47 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.18.4.37] has joined #openttd 10:09:28 <planetmaker> sure, Eddi|zuHause ? 10:09:34 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure... 10:09:47 *** Joni_ [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-fe00dc00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:10:41 *** stYg [~styg@adsl-dyn-235.95-102-83.t-com.sk] has joined #openttd 10:14:23 <planetmaker> action14 have a surprising amount of 00 :-) 10:14:57 *** fanioz [~fanioz@180.214.233.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:28:33 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.160.178] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:32:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.160.178] has joined #openttd 10:36:19 <Hirundo> The amount of 00s seems correct, but the indentation is a bit misleading 10:37:16 <planetmaker> I'd not even say that :-) 10:37:17 <planetmaker> Depends probably how one expects them to be indented 10:38:07 <Yexo> the amount of 00's is correct in that example 10:38:10 <Hirundo> Given the example, I'd think one of the 00s closes the"B" node which is incorrect 10:38:31 <Yexo> no, you have to see the 00 as just another type (like "B", "C" and "T") 10:38:32 <Hirundo> rather, the 00s match the "C" nodes plus one for the entire action14 10:38:38 <Yexo> where a 00-type is the last type of a list 10:38:49 <planetmaker> Hirundo: ^ like that 10:38:56 <planetmaker> and in that way it fits 10:38:56 <Yexo> so the 00 directly under the "B" closes the \d<setting-number> list 10:39:08 <Yexo> the last 00 closes the root list 10:39:46 <Hirundo> This shows that expected indentation can differ :) 10:39:53 <Yexo> yes :) 10:39:56 <planetmaker> :-) 10:40:32 <Hirundo> Depending on whether you view the structure as a 00-terminated list or as an 'xml-style' thingy with opening "C" and closing 00 10:44:07 <planetmaker> isn't that the same. The last 00 is aligned with the initial "C" 10:45:30 <Eddi|zuHause> so there's generally one more closing 00 than there are opening "C"s 10:45:58 <Eddi|zuHause> ... i see how that got me confused 10:46:32 <Hirundo> http://pastebin.com/vc1Pgi5N <- how I see it 10:48:15 <planetmaker> but it needs both 10:48:26 <planetmaker> the last of a new indentation level needs to be 00 10:48:51 <planetmaker> so... in that sense of definition you show, it's neither 10:49:08 <planetmaker> (I'd not consider 00 a valid 'child') 10:49:40 <Hirundo> I'm only considering a single node here, not an entire action14 10:50:01 <planetmaker> Yes 10:50:10 <planetmaker> Still :-) 10:51:38 <Hirundo> There should be only one 00 in this case, right? 10:52:13 <zachanima> =O 10:53:26 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 10:53:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.165.145] has joined #openttd 10:56:52 <planetmaker> Hirundo: Not sure what you mean... I guess our perception of "child" might differ 10:58:01 *** X-2 [~X-2@a83-163-133-37.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:58:29 <planetmaker> but the simplest action14 without any child is like "C" .... 00 00 if I'm not at fault. One to close the (void) entry list, one to close the "C". 11:00:19 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.160.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:01:06 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:08:04 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r21052 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Fix (r20435): house/airporttile/industrytile newgrfs that defined tiles that relied on the substitute being drawn were broken 11:09:19 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74715.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:09:54 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74715.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:17:57 <Eddi|zuHause> thanks for finding the issue, Yexo... stadium in alpine works fine now 11:18:11 <Yexo> great :) 11:19:08 *** rellig [~rellig@vs1191017.vserver.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:19:18 *** SmatZ is now known as Guest967 11:19:21 *** tneo [~tneo@vs185047.vserver.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:19:21 *** Osai [~Osai@vs185047.vserver.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:19:24 *** planetmaker [~pm@vs185047.vserver.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:19:31 *** SmatZ [~SmatZ@vs185047.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 11:19:39 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@vs185047.vserver.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:19:41 *** FloSoft [bouncer@www.siedler25.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:19:44 *** Guest967 [~SmatZ@vs185047.vserver.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:20:05 *** rellig [~rellig@vs1191017.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 11:21:02 *** tneo [~tneo@vs185047.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 11:27:18 *** tneo [~tneo@vs185047.vserver.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:28:16 *** Osai [~Osai@vs185047.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 11:29:03 *** SmatZ [~SmatZ@vs185047.vserver.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:29:07 *** rellig_107 [~rellig@vs1191017.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 11:29:08 *** rellig [~rellig@vs1191017.vserver.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:29:14 *** planetmaker [~pm@vs185047.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 11:29:27 *** planetmaker is now known as Guest969 11:29:58 *** SmatZ_ [~smatz@a40-prg1-22-216.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 11:35:21 *** Guest684 [~V453000@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: You must construct additional PYLONS to get me back!] 11:35:21 *** Ammler [~ammler@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:35:53 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Bye - 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Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 12:08:30 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:09:00 *** zachanim1 [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:09:04 *** zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 12:14:43 *** rellig [~rellig@vs1191017.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 12:15:58 *** tneo [~tneo@vs185047.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 12:16:09 *** planetma- [~pm@vs185047.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 12:16:51 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c1f9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:16:57 *** Osai [~Osai@vs185047.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 12:17:14 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 12:17:23 *** Ammller [~ammler@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 12:17:27 *** SmatZ [~SmatZ@vs185047.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 12:17:34 *** planetma- is now known as planetmaker 12:17:43 *** Ammller is now known as Ammler 12:18:44 *** |Terkhen| [~Terkhen@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 12:18:57 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@vs185047.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 12:19:14 *** V4530000 [~V453000@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 12:24:21 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 12:29:38 *** _Terkhen_ [~Terkhen@222.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...] 12:32:03 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 12:39:14 *** |Terkhen| is now known as Terkhen 12:45:14 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice2n2.emea.ibm.com] has left #openttd [] 12:46:12 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-168-248.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 13:01:36 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has quit [Quit: On snow, everyone can follow your traces] 13:06:07 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has joined #openttd 13:06:09 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 13:08:25 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 13:12:31 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:15:55 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:19:25 <Belugas> hello 13:19:44 <fjb> Moin Belugas 13:20:16 <Belugas> hey there sir :) 13:28:33 * fjb needs a better small airport. 13:30:22 <Rubidium> moi y'all 13:31:43 <planetmaker> moin all, too :-) 13:32:06 <fjb> Moin Rubidium 13:32:09 <fjb> Moin planetmaker 13:37:54 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f725447.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:41:28 *** avdg [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 13:44:25 *** SmatZ_ [~smatz@a40-prg1-22-216.static.adsl.vol.cz] has left #openttd [Konversation terminated!] 13:44:25 *** V4530000 is now known as V453000 13:44:45 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 13:49:02 *** lolman [~lolman@188-220-249-105.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:49:05 *** lolman_ [~lolman@188-220-249-105.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:50:08 <Eddi|zuHause> small question: might it be possible for action 14 boolean parameters to invert them for the gui? i.e. have them 0 when "on" and 1 when "off"? 13:50:33 <Eddi|zuHause> parameters like "turn off X: <on>" sound weird 13:52:20 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:53:38 *** KouDy [~KouDy@82.100.0.78] has joined #openttd 13:53:48 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: or use an "enum" 13:54:20 <Rubidium> though I'd suggest just changing the meaning of the value "1" for the parameter 13:54:36 <Rubidium> even then, "not set" is another value that 0, or 1 13:55:02 <Rubidium> though with the GUI it'll assign the A14 default values 13:56:48 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-178.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 13:59:25 *** davis [~b@p5B28BE12.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:59:53 <planetmaker> Indeed, setting a default value is the much better solution 14:03:07 <Eddi|zuHause> please don't make me explain that to HIM, too :p 14:04:13 * Rubidium wonders who did explain everything a long long time ago to him 14:04:29 <Rubidium> s/him/Him/ 14:04:49 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: I won't anymore. He ignores my advice 14:05:32 <planetmaker> I tried in this issue again, I can't help, if people won't listen 14:05:37 <planetmaker> and take free advice 14:05:56 <planetmaker> but rather carry on personal vendettas 14:06:07 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8413.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 14:07:54 <planetmaker> Besides everything on that issue is in the wiki 14:08:06 <planetmaker> he should read it ;-) 14:10:38 <Rubidium> but he hasn't written it, so he doesn't understand it 14:10:50 <Rubidium> and TTDPatch doesn't understand it and thus he doesn't understand it 14:12:24 * planetmaker shrugs 14:22:33 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:28:55 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:90e6:bf46:c328:72e8] has joined #openttd 14:28:59 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 14:31:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i just noticed this: "Schiffsdock" <-- who the hell made that translation?!? 14:32:26 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 14:35:52 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause is that not noted in the history? 14:36:13 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: too many indirections... 14:36:47 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: you have to svn annotate, and then look up the commit message which translator is mentioned 14:36:55 * Rubidium praises planetmaker for that 14:37:49 <dihedral> i thought it would also be shown in WT3 14:38:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i never go to wt3... 14:38:11 <Eddi|zuHause> why would i do that? 14:39:11 <dihedral> to fix translations 14:40:40 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: and what's wrong with that? 14:40:54 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: everything is wrong with that... 14:41:09 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it should probably be "Schiffswerft" 14:41:13 <planetmaker> His holyness disagrees. But on principle. So? 14:41:49 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 14:41:57 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: it's both, a "Werft" as well as a "Dock". Ships are built also in "Docks" which are part of a "Werft" 14:42:08 <planetmaker> I stand by that it's a 100% appropriate translation 14:42:23 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 14:42:38 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it feels wrong... 14:42:45 <planetmaker> not to me 14:42:56 <planetmaker> It's also a 'hangar'. And not an airplane factory 14:43:12 <planetmaker> Or 'depot' and not train / truck / vehicle factory 14:43:28 <dihedral> i did not know that dock was a german word 14:44:43 <planetmaker> you've never been living near the coast, all of you ;-) 14:45:25 <planetmaker> the German word, though is "Dock", not "dock" - note the captialization ;-) 14:45:51 <dihedral> :P 14:46:03 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i associate "Dock" with the place where you load/unload, "Trockendock" with the place where you do repairs, and "Werft" with the place where you build 14:46:05 <planetmaker> But you're all translators... change it, if you feel to 'get it right' 14:46:19 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: but that's not true ;-) 14:46:45 <planetmaker> schwimmdock, trockendock - both are suitable for repairs 14:46:51 <planetmaker> both are part of a "Werft" 14:46:57 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but the button in the toolbar says "Werft bauen" 14:47:30 <planetmaker> Then make it consistent whatever way you like. Honestly I don't care 14:47:36 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but "Schiffsdock" just feels very wrong combination... 14:47:38 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:47:51 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i'm not a translator 14:47:55 <planetmaker> become one 14:48:04 <dihedral> hehe 14:49:16 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:49:44 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: should I click commit? :) 14:50:04 <planetmaker> :-) 14:51:43 <planetmaker> NOUN das Dock | die Docks 14:51:45 <planetmaker> SYNO Dock | Reparaturwerft ... 14:51:46 <planetmaker> ^^ from dict.cc 14:52:04 <planetmaker> Schiffsausbesserungswerk | Schiffswerft | Werft 14:52:06 *** Chillosophy [~fu@82-170-139-109.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 14:52:17 <planetmaker> so your turn :-) 14:52:32 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: now find examples for "Schiffsdock"... 14:54:17 <planetmaker> granted the "Schiffs" part could go. But it's to distinguish it from "RAumdock" 14:55:43 <Eddi|zuHause> lmao :p 14:56:35 <planetmaker> but given that "werft" is used about 18 times and dock about two, it might indeed be best to change it to werft 14:57:59 <planetmaker> (which would have been the correct argument in my eyes. "but I think it's wrong" or "I don't like it" kinda make quite weak ones 14:58:04 <planetmaker> changed 14:58:17 <planetmaker> but that's all I always get from the German forums :-( 15:01:35 <Fast2> If you speak of the place where the ships are built, I say âSchiffswerftâ, too :) 15:02:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Fast2: technically, you don't build vehicles in the game. you buy them... 15:03:11 <Fast2> Then use âSchiffsverkaufsstandâ ;) 15:05:28 <planetmaker> they don't do repairs ;-) 15:06:09 <Eddi|zuHause> for all other vehicle types, the "Depot" is the place where storage and maintenance take place when the vehicle is not in use 15:06:46 <planetmaker> for ships it's the "trockendock" ;-) 15:07:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and here comes the problem that the game doesn't model a drydock properly, so it can't be named that way... 15:07:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.165.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:11:42 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has joined #openttd 15:11:58 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.61.251] has joined #openttd 15:15:33 <Eddi|zuHause> "Currently, the scheme is to use international phone codes as language IDs, unless they're out of range, in which case pick a number vaguely related in some way. Or something else." <-- how come i get an immediate "DaleStan" association with that sentence? :) 15:15:47 *** Tennel [~Tennel@141.44.229.85] has joined #openttd 15:18:21 *** Mortomes|Work [~MortomesW@mail.qps.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:18:46 * Belugas remembers that line 15:19:06 * Belugas wonders if it might not have been edited by patchman or himself 15:20:29 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 15:20:46 <Belugas> mmh... history is not complete 15:24:45 <Belugas> i remember i had some exhange with patchman regarding the fact there was a need for more ids 15:26:56 <Eddi|zuHause> but what i really wanted to search for was documentation about why MB can't use action 4 feature 48 to replace the "ship depot" string... the action 4 page doesn't seem to mention it. 15:27:18 <planetmaker> You can't replace default strings 15:27:34 <planetmaker> IIRC 15:28:08 <planetmaker> the stringIDs are not necessarily the same as in TTDP 15:29:04 <Hirundo> perhaps you can in TTDP, but certainly not in OTTD as stringIDs change over time 15:29:19 <planetmaker> that's a BIG issue :-P 15:29:23 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29:39 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: also for the simple reason that it makes translations inconsistent 15:30:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i know THAT you can't change them. i am searching for the DOCUMENTATION of that. 15:31:49 <Eddi|zuHause> also, src/newgrf_text.cpp has some partial mapping, but it seems this is only for referencing default strings, not changing them. 15:43:53 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 15:44:06 *** Tennel [~Tennel@141.44.229.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:51:20 <Eddi|zuHause> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action8 <-- page seems to not have been updated to mention that action 14 is also valid before action 8 15:51:26 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:05:42 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fc352.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:07:02 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f725447.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:13:46 <Yexo> now it is 16:15:42 <planetmaker> it's only valid before action8 16:15:47 <planetmaker> not also 16:15:49 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 16:17:09 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:18:03 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:18:16 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 16:27:12 <Yexo> go ahead and fix it :) 16:28:15 <Yexo> the current information is not "wrong", just incomplete (a14 after a8 doesn't work). That part is mentioned on the a14 page 16:28:20 <Yexo> "This scanning stops when encountering an action 8, thus action 14 needs to appear earlier in the GRF." 16:31:24 <planetmaker> that's what I recalled, reading there. 16:37:34 <Eddi|zuHause> so it's valid but ignored... 16:37:44 <Belugas> mmmh 16:38:28 <Belugas> Dalestan has visited forums for the last time 31 august 16:38:38 <Eddi|zuHause> @seen DaleStan 16:38:38 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: DaleStan was last seen in #openttd 31 weeks, 4 days, 0 hours, 1 minute, and 28 seconds ago: <DaleStan> <PeterT> Why would one have info version 5 instead of info version 7? <-- because you didn't use any Info version 6 or 7 features, and there was no header telling NFORenum to use any particular version. 16:38:39 <Belugas> looks like a long time ago to me 16:40:05 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 16:40:05 <planetmaker> yes, he left 16:40:55 <Belugas> he did, didn't he? 16:40:59 <Belugas> he told you? 16:42:46 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 16:44:49 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:44:56 <planetmaker> you should ask our project leader. He talked to him. It's just tell-tale what I'm doing here 16:45:47 <planetmaker> the continuation of grfcodec / nforenum have to my knowledge his consent 16:52:14 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 16:54:07 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 16:54:52 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:55:49 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 16:59:34 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:03:46 <Eddi|zuHause> so... still leaves the problem that action 4 feature 48 doesn't document that openttd does not allow changing any builtin strings 17:06:07 <Yexo> what stops you? 17:07:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm scared of wikis 17:08:04 <Ammler> then make a patch for openttd :-P 17:08:18 <Eddi|zuHause> also, i'm not really confident i understood what the code actually does 17:09:11 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-16-114-12.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 17:13:39 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 17:17:15 <planetmaker> [19:10] <Ammler> then make a patch for openttd :-P <-- that wouldn't be accepted 17:18:31 <Ammler> :-o why so? 17:18:34 <Rubidium> good luck mapping 3000 strings to 3000 other strings 17:18:51 <Rubidium> oh, and there isn't a 1:1 mapping for quite a few of the strings 17:19:01 <planetmaker> and it might change for every version 17:19:05 <Rubidium> and many strings in TTD aren't in OpenTTD and vice versa 17:19:28 <Rubidium> also some OpenTTD strings have removed e.g. colour codes to reduce the number of duplicate strings 17:19:52 <Rubidium> but... that means mapping should remove those colour codes as well 17:20:11 <Rubidium> and... the plural system differs, but that's probably totally insignificant 17:20:42 <planetmaker> :-) 17:20:49 <Ammler> with roadtypes, there wouldn't be much strings left, which would need changing :-) 17:21:02 <planetmaker> obviously 'docks' ;-) 17:21:12 <planetmaker> it'd need 'ship types' 17:21:25 <Rubidium> not to mention the fun you're going to have with e.g. multiplayer where perfectly translated strings get replaced by untranslated strings 17:21:47 <planetmaker> ^ that's my main issue with it. And why it's not something preferrable 17:22:03 <Rubidium> oh, did I mention genders already? 17:22:09 <Ammler> well, you wouldn't change stings, which are already right 17:22:25 <planetmaker> If one introduces new things - then they can be renamed or given their name. But drawing something existing differently and then calling it different just doesn't work 17:22:38 <planetmaker> Ammler: but such patch would do exactly that ;-) 17:23:10 <planetmaker> there's really no reason to re-define existing strings 17:23:27 <Ammler> but I am aware of addis trolly buses which need it now 17:23:27 <planetmaker> everything which newgrf can define and which needs a name can be given a name 17:23:45 <planetmaker> what's the issue with that bus? 17:23:53 <Ammler> it is still called trams 17:24:21 <planetmaker> :-) That's missing road types :-P 17:26:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: genders are already a nightmare with newindustries 17:27:16 <Rubidium> well, still two months to push gender and cases into the NewGRF specs :) 17:27:30 <Rubidium> shouldn't be too hard to map it though 17:28:10 * planetmaker has the feeling more and more that it needs at some stage grf v8 17:28:41 <Rubidium> planetmaker: actually, it doesn't (at least genders) 17:29:02 <planetmaker> well, not every new grf feature needs it, yes 17:29:24 <Rubidium> gender is just an extended format string code 17:29:31 <frosch123> you would still have to validate the DParam order, and disable non-matching stings 17:29:31 <Rubidium> possibly with a mapping in A14 17:29:42 <Eddi|zuHause> there has been lots of talk about a possible grf version 8, but nobody actually started development on it yet (as in let grfcodec accept grf version 8 input, and gradually change the specs until they are finialized) 17:29:47 <planetmaker> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3151 <-- but that might need it 17:30:28 <Rubidium> even cases could be done with an extended format string code, but cases are a bit more complex to spec 17:30:36 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: none of the features so far was urgent enough to do such step 17:30:47 <frosch123> planetmaker: i guess that will result in a nightmare 17:31:03 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but by the time someone starts development, the feature requests will be forgotten... 17:31:07 <planetmaker> frosch123: arbitrary access to other wagons? 17:31:18 <frosch123> you create chicken&egg problems that way 17:31:20 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: not if gathered :-) 17:31:37 <planetmaker> frosch123: chicken-egg problem there? How? 17:31:56 <frosch123> the capacity of this wagon is the capacity of the wagon in front plus 10 17:32:04 <frosch123> the capacity of this wagon is the capacity of the wagon behind plus 10 17:32:08 <Eddi|zuHause> recursion ;) 17:32:30 <planetmaker> could be done. But there's a recursion detection *somewhere* for newgrf functions already 17:32:38 <frosch123> nope 17:32:53 <frosch123> oh, and you will fix autoreplace desyncing everything 17:32:58 <frosch123> :p 17:33:01 <Eddi|zuHause> newgrf actions simply can't recurse, because they can only reference actions defined _before_, not after 17:33:26 <Yexo> not true: action7/9 vs action10 17:33:30 <planetmaker> you have newgrf ^ 17:34:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but probably $nasty_things may happen if you abuse that. but only on loading the grf 17:35:04 <planetmaker> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VarAction2Advanced <-- last paragraph 17:35:34 <planetmaker> rather section 17:35:57 <Yexo> planetmaker: for that Eddi|zuHause's statement was true: you can only go _back_ in the newgrf by using that 17:36:57 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: there is no "forward declaration" for action 2 17:38:07 <Eddi|zuHause> so recursion is not possible. you can only do iteration if you use persistent storage, and rely on the callback being repeated, but then the game defines the speed of that iteration (e.g. animation frames) 17:39:43 <Yexo> industry production callback 17:41:14 *** TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:41:42 <planetmaker> ^ that might be... I don't find the commit. But I do recall some fix somewhen (I think by frosch) fixing some infinite newgrf loop 17:42:38 *** fjb is now known as Guest1015 17:42:38 <frosch123> yes, the production callback 17:42:39 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFC794.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:42:49 <frosch123> but cb36 will not result in a recurson that way, it will only desync 17:43:01 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21053 /trunk/src/lang/ (german.txt unfinished/frisian.txt): 17:43:01 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:43:01 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frisian - 5 changes by gjannema 17:43:01 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: german - 2 changes by planetmaker 17:43:18 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 17:43:32 <frosch123> you could try making a list of the variables which would be actually safe to access from other vehicles :) 17:43:43 <frosch123> but i somewhat doubt there would be a lot 17:44:33 <frosch123> maybe engineid, cargotype and subtype 17:45:36 <Eddi|zuHause> you could allow certain variables only for vehicles before in the chain 17:46:15 <Eddi|zuHause> and things like direction and visibility could be interesting to know... 17:47:04 <Eddi|zuHause> "is there a height difference between here and 2 vehicles before me?" 17:47:34 <frosch123> there is also a george task about that 17:47:51 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but that was only the directly adjacent vehicles 17:48:02 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sirius.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:48:11 <Eddi|zuHause> and someone said that wasn't enough to bother implementing... 17:49:10 <frosch123> bbl 17:49:13 <planetmaker> frosch123: for the sake of shunting the cargotype and ID would be enough 17:49:19 <planetmaker> and the loading state 17:49:27 * frosch123 runs to sports :) 17:49:31 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fc352.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:49:47 *** Guest1015 [~frank@p5DDFF546.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:50:45 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:53:32 *** KouDy [~KouDy@82.100.0.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:00:27 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-168-248.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:02:31 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-213-49-110-200.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 18:03:16 *** azaghal_ is now known as azaghal 18:04:17 *** KouDy [~KouDy@82.100.0.78] has joined #openttd 18:04:41 *** andythenorth_ [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:04:54 <andythenorth_> hi hi 18:06:45 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:06:51 *** welshdragon [~dragon@millsie.net] has left #openttd [Leaving] 18:12:57 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.61.251] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:13:20 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r21054 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#4188] (r19397): scenario starting year was not set correctly when changed by clicking on the date panel and entering a new value 18:13:20 <Alberth> hi hi, causer of confusion ( http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4184 ) 18:14:22 <planetmaker> :-D 18:16:49 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0e43b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:18:12 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5FA5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:18:37 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC3B49.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:27:58 <andythenorth_> are any ponies being made? 18:28:53 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 18:31:37 <planetmaker> don't you grow them? 18:31:39 <Alberth> just some nml hacks 18:32:24 <Terkhen> I'm only growing a big headache 18:33:32 *** Lakie` [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 18:33:40 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4db800a1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:38:32 <Alberth> I don't see yet how order groups should work 18:39:40 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:42:05 <andythenorth_> Alberth: (sorry to ask) could you define your meaning for 'order group'? 18:42:12 <andythenorth_> (as there are multiple understandings) 18:43:27 *** Lakie` is now known as Lakie 18:44:45 <Alberth> a number of groups, where each group has an order property, and contains all vehicles with those orders (shared or non-shared). 18:44:52 <andythenorth_> impossible :) 18:45:01 <andythenorth_> (ish) 18:46:25 <andythenorth_> irc is not great for explaining possible specs :P 18:49:01 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/orders.png <-- you remember this one? 18:49:13 <andythenorth_> yep 18:49:39 <andythenorth_> so building on that provides order sets? 18:49:40 <Alberth> see each line in the grey window as a group, containing the vehicles with that order 18:49:54 <andythenorth_> so forget what we mean by current 'groups' 18:51:41 * andythenorth_ has a slow brain for explaining today, sorry 18:51:44 * Alberth tries to erase the current groups, but fails, "group concept not available" 19:00:03 <Terkhen> good night 19:00:19 <Alberth> good night 19:04:11 *** Lakie` [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 19:06:00 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 19:06:09 <SmatZ> good night Terkhen 19:07:46 <planetmaker> good night Terkhen 19:09:24 <andythenorth_> Alberth: so the order sets concept makes sense yes / no? :) http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=908792#p908792 19:10:17 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:17:59 <Alberth> I didn't consider user interface much, in particular other windows than the group gui 19:19:05 <Alberth> but stuff like splitting such a group in 2, or creating a group without having a vehicle yet 19:20:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i think my most important goal for group rewrite is getting means for macromanagement. 19:20:33 * Alberth nods 19:21:34 <Eddi|zuHause> "get me all Tram lines in A-Town and increase the vehicle count in each by one" 19:21:50 <Eddi|zuHause> ["then rearrange the schedule"] 19:22:02 <Eddi|zuHause> [aka autoseparation] 19:22:36 <Alberth> 'rearrange the schedule'? 19:22:36 <Alberth> 'autoseparation'? 19:22:55 <Eddi|zuHause> don't worry about that part, was just me imagining stuff ;) 19:23:24 <Rubidium> don't forget "syncing" trains at particular stations 19:23:26 <Alberth> I don't see how you'd do such things in a nice way yet 19:23:29 <Rubidium> or trams 19:23:55 <Eddi|zuHause> ITiM had a feature where it would calculate the round trip time and spread out the vehicles evenly, if you wanted it to. it even had a nice GUI for that... 19:23:58 <Alberth> that's a time table issue, isn't it? 19:23:59 <Rubidium> itim seemed to do it quite nicely 19:24:35 <Rubidium> although I always missed the: "sync at station X with shared order group Y" 19:24:39 <Eddi|zuHause> it worked on shared orders, so it ultimately would sift into groups... 19:24:57 <Alberth> I never get it to work for some reason. 19:25:17 <Alberth> buses stay together 19:25:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: that might be achieved by setting the "timetable start time" at an arbitrary station, instead of at the first station. 19:27:47 <Rubidium> true, but then you need to reset that each time you add a vehicle to the vehicle groups you want to have synced 19:28:18 <Rubidium> e.g. if I doubled the number of vehicles in one go, the original vehicles wouldn't run at their normal time anymore, but some other 19:28:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: for anything more advanced you'd probably need a scripting engine 19:30:01 <Rubidium> now for the totally non white whale proof: you could use those "sync" moments to delay vehicles if another vehicle with transfer passengers is slightly late 19:30:22 <Rubidium> ofcourse only if the slack in the timetable near the following stations allows that 19:36:40 <andythenorth_> Alberth: splitting a group in 2 19:37:26 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 19:38:16 <andythenorth_> bah 19:38:34 <andythenorth_> wish I could write the answer in pseudo code or something 19:38:39 <andythenorth_> it's so clear in my brain :P 19:39:05 * planetmaker hugs andythenorth_ 19:39:11 <Alberth> hmm, perhaps make a new group without vehicles, then drag some vehicles to the new group? 19:39:26 * andythenorth_ pleads :( 19:39:34 <andythenorth_> can we call them order sets for the thing you're working on? 19:39:52 <andythenorth_> I don't want to come across like our new friend, but 'groups' is confusing 19:40:29 <Alberth> sorry, will try to avoid the 'g' word 19:40:33 <andythenorth_> thanks :D 19:40:41 <andythenorth_> so you have order set #1 19:40:46 <andythenorth_> with 12 vehicles in it 19:40:55 <andythenorth_> you want to give 6 vehicles new orders? 19:41:09 <Alberth> just 5 :) 19:41:12 <andythenorth_> ok 19:41:30 <andythenorth_> so option 1: go to each vehicle, and assign a new order set individually 19:41:47 <Alberth> nah, too complicated :) 19:42:14 <andythenorth_> option 2: go to the 'vehicle sets' window (looks 99% same as current groups) 19:42:25 <andythenorth_> move 5 vehicles into a new 'vehicle set' and reassign their orders 19:43:02 <andythenorth_> either way, the player has to do *something* to the 5 vehicles, there's no way for the game to know 19:43:07 <Alberth> hmm, 'move' would create 2 sets with the same orders 19:43:17 <andythenorth_> vehicle set != order set 19:43:27 <andythenorth_> vehicle set is a totally arbitrary group 19:43:30 <andythenorth_> it's just a list of vehicles 19:43:39 <Alberth> oh 19:43:43 <andythenorth_> to which actions can be applied in a noun->verb way :) 19:44:06 <Belugas> "Please dear, can you find a free download of Burger Time?" 19:44:08 <andythenorth_> e.g. 'send to depot', 'stop', 'start', 'reassign orders', 'use consist' 19:44:09 <Belugas> mmh... 19:44:21 <Belugas> but that OLD! 19:45:13 <Alberth> so how are order sets and vehicle sets related? 19:45:22 <andythenorth_> they are decoupled 19:45:30 <andythenorth_> vehicles have one and only one order set 19:45:36 <andythenorth_> vehicles can be in n order sets 19:45:40 <andythenorth_> oops 19:45:45 <andythenorth_> vehicles can be in n vehicle sets 19:46:04 * andythenorth_ facepalm 19:46:20 <andythenorth_> vehicle sets don't try and do anything too clever 19:46:27 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 19:47:29 <andythenorth_> vehicle sets / searches / filters / lists / whatever 19:47:33 <andythenorth_> 'groups' even :P 19:47:39 <andythenorth_> look like this http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=136147 19:48:36 <Alberth> you're going too fast 19:49:08 <Alberth> let's do vehicle sets for a while 19:49:30 <andythenorth_> ok 19:49:31 <andythenorth_> :) 19:49:37 <Alberth> each set contains 0 or more vehicles 19:49:40 <andythenorth_> yes 19:49:56 <Alberth> can a vehicle be in 0 or more vehicle sets? 19:50:17 <andythenorth_> a vehicle can be in n vehicle sets 19:50:40 <andythenorth_> (implicitly, it already is...but that's a bit more of a mathematical way of thinking about it) 19:51:13 <Alberth> math is fine by me :) 19:51:55 <Alberth> how does a vehicle set come into existence? 19:52:04 <andythenorth_> interesting question 19:52:12 <andythenorth_> again, implicitly, there are already sets 19:52:17 <andythenorth_> "all vehicles using this station" 19:52:22 *** Lakie` [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:52:23 * Alberth nods 19:52:32 <andythenorth_> "all vehicles older than n years" 19:52:42 <andythenorth_> etc. 19:53:00 <andythenorth_> "all vehicles with reliability < x%" 19:53:07 <andythenorth_> etc. 19:53:09 <Alberth> I get the picture :) 19:53:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i was reading the last few lines, and thought "this sounds like a discussion xiong would have"... and then in the backlog i read that you apologized for that in advance :p 19:53:27 <andythenorth_> yeah, defining terms does matter sometimes 19:53:48 <andythenorth_> Alberth: player can also explicitly make vehicle sets 19:54:05 <andythenorth_> Alberth: do you use iTunes or non-fruit flavoured equivalent? 19:54:42 <Alberth> I use old fashioned analogue radio and/or CDs :) 19:54:59 <andythenorth_> ah well 19:55:19 <andythenorth_> the metaphor is basically same as playlists / smart playlists 19:55:21 <Alberth> allowing a user to make new vehicle sets seems useful. 19:55:31 <andythenorth_> playlists are created by user (usually drag and drop or similar) 19:55:40 <andythenorth_> smart playlists are based on search / filter criteria 19:55:59 <Alberth> but I assume you don't want to have all the pre-defined sets available? 19:56:25 <andythenorth_> no 19:56:29 <andythenorth_> there would be a lot :) 19:56:35 <andythenorth_> mathematically speaking 19:57:12 <andythenorth_> what can a player do with a group? 19:57:19 <andythenorth_> ach, vehicle set /s 19:57:27 * andythenorth_ facepalm 20:00:25 <Alberth> ok, we have vehicle sets, created in some smart (or less smart) way 20:01:14 <andythenorth_> yup 20:02:10 *** V453000 is now known as Guest1029 20:03:05 <Alberth> right, then you assign a new order to that set. 20:03:19 <Alberth> I see what you are doing 20:03:21 <andythenorth_> yes 20:03:40 <andythenorth_> no magic :) 20:05:20 <Alberth> an 'order set' is just a single order list, like we have now for a vehicle, right? 20:05:27 <andythenorth_> exactly 20:05:39 <andythenorth_> makes the changes more...manageable I hope 20:05:55 <andythenorth_> and no crazy system where the 'group' is trying to set order, consist, livery etc all in one place 20:06:23 <andythenorth_> Rubidium said order sets might even save memory :P 20:07:13 <Alberth> you get orde sharing by definition 20:07:20 <Alberth> *order 20:08:11 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-101-197.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:08:27 <andythenorth_> yes 20:08:40 <andythenorth_> 'orders' and 'shared orders' are cleaned up by order sets 20:08:47 <andythenorth_> there's no longer any distinction 20:08:58 <andythenorth_> a vehicle just has a set of orders 20:09:13 <andythenorth_> which may or may not be used by other vehicles 20:10:21 <andythenorth_> order sets exist independently of vehicles, and presumably a vehicle just has a pointer to the order set 20:11:55 <Alberth> indeed 20:12:51 <Alberth> I was wondering about order sets without vehicle sets, but that does not work 20:13:03 <andythenorth_> I like this route because (a) I think it makes sense (b) it doesn't demand a GIGANTIC patch 20:13:32 <andythenorth_> this way stuff like setting livery, consist, etc. can be ignored for now 20:14:30 <Alberth> livery == colours of the vehicle? 20:14:41 <andythenorth_> yes 20:14:47 <andythenorth_> a whole other question I think 20:14:53 <andythenorth_> best ignored for now 20:15:40 <Alberth> the question is mainly, do you want to have them like order sets 20:15:48 <andythenorth_> liveries? 20:15:50 <andythenorth_> I don't know 20:15:50 <Alberth> (and same for consist) 20:16:00 <andythenorth_> consist is a more interesting and difficult question I think 20:16:44 <Alberth> ie can I do consist things without having a pool of consists 20:17:14 <Alberth> perhaps we should try to answer that for the theoretical idea of removing order sets 20:17:31 <Alberth> since we think we understand orders :) 20:17:46 <andythenorth_> ok 20:18:23 <andythenorth_> so the question is... what happens if you remove an order set? 20:18:25 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fc352.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:18:55 <Belugas> hey swety 20:19:06 <Alberth> no, the question, I have vehicle sets, and want to change orders without having order sets 20:19:29 <andythenorth_> you can't :) 20:19:30 <Alberth> s/question,/question is:/ 20:19:46 <Alberth> because... ? 20:19:54 <andythenorth_> no order sets == no orders defined in the game 20:20:24 <Alberth> oh, that is a irrelevant problem for now 20:20:43 <andythenorth_> :) 20:20:53 <Alberth> eg, each vehicle has its own order list 20:21:07 <Eddi|zuHause> each vehicle would get an implicit order set 20:21:12 <andythenorth_> yes 20:21:26 <andythenorth_> if there are 27 vehicles each with own set, that's 27 order sets 20:22:29 <Alberth> it does not matter how many order sets there are, I am trying to change orders for 5 vehicles without using a list of available order sets 20:22:39 <Rubidium> order set is badly named; they're not sets as duplicates are allowed 20:22:54 * andythenorth_ is not mathematically very wise 20:23:12 <andythenorth_> would duplicates be wise? 20:23:13 <Rubidium> but then, you're basically discussing how to visualise OrderList 20:23:23 <Eddi|zuHause> set as a set of vehicles that happens to define orders 20:23:25 <fonsinchen> if you remove an order set there are two possibilities: a, the vehicle is in other vehicle sets with orders; then it gets the orders from one of those or b, it is not; then it is left without orders. 20:23:28 <Rubidium> andythenorth_: A->B->A->C 20:23:35 <Alberth> actually, an order set is a single order list I think 20:23:37 <Eddi|zuHause> not a set of orders 20:23:41 <fonsinchen> There is one problem though. Conflicting order sets for the same vehicle. 20:23:45 <Rubidium> and how to keep OrderLists around when no vehicle points to them anymore 20:24:03 <Eddi|zuHause> vehicles don't point to orderlists 20:24:07 <Eddi|zuHause> order sets point to order lists 20:24:15 <andythenorth_> vehicles point to order set 20:24:16 <Eddi|zuHause> and order sets contain vehicles 20:24:24 * andythenorth_ will shut up about implementation 20:24:33 <Eddi|zuHause> order set can be empty 20:24:40 <Eddi|zuHause> and still have an orderlist 20:24:43 <Rubidium> but... OrderList "contains" vehicles 20:25:07 <Eddi|zuHause> OrderList contains orders, order sets contain vehicles 20:25:17 <Rubidium> http://docs.openttd.org/structOrderList.html 20:25:25 <Alberth> no Eddi|zuHause 20:25:45 <Rubidium> and OrderList links to a linked list of Orders 20:26:10 <Alberth> I am a bit aware of the current structure, but I am trying to think outside the current implementation 20:26:17 <Eddi|zuHause> order set 1:n vehicle. order set is a vehicle set. order set 1:1 orderlist. orderlist 1:n orders 20:26:53 <Rubidium> why add some pointless class in between? 20:27:18 <Eddi|zuHause> because you can reuse the current orderlist implementation 20:27:28 <Alberth> because we (andy and me) were not discussing classes but concepts? 20:27:34 <Rubidium> but the current OrderList implementation already has 1:n vehicles 20:27:39 <Rubidium> and 1:n orders 20:28:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yes, but you mentioned the current problem when having 0 vehicles 20:28:15 <Eddi|zuHause> which could be solved this way 20:28:29 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: the "problem" being that OrderLists get currently removed when there are 0 vehicles in it 20:28:40 <Rubidium> or rather, when the last vehicle removes itself from the orderlist 20:28:52 <Rubidium> changing that behaviour is quite trivial 20:29:02 <Alberth> andythenorth_: shall we discuss further tomorrow? 20:29:11 <Rubidium> although figuring out whether the orderlist should really be removed or not is the hard part 20:29:19 <Alberth> perhaps at a less noisy channel? :p 20:29:27 <andythenorth_> Alberth: maybe :D 20:30:05 <planetmaker> :-D 20:30:05 <andythenorth_> at least it's well-informed noise 20:30:06 <Eddi|zuHause> 't was just my thought... i wasn't really going to discuss it in such detail 20:30:06 <Rubidium> because one part of the users wants the current behaviour and another part wants to keep the order lists 20:30:54 <andythenorth_> that is what scares me about 'my' idea 20:31:04 <andythenorth_> I think GUI-wise it's worse in some ways 20:31:06 <Alberth> andythenorth_: I think it is essential that you can assign things to vehicle sets without having a list of things available at some other list 20:31:12 <Rubidium> at least, keeping an order list around for more than a game year most likely means you forgot about it 20:31:30 <andythenorth_> Rubidium: I was thinking they would need cleaning up after a while 20:31:32 <Rubidium> otherwise you would have assigned other vehicles to it 20:31:53 <andythenorth_> default sort == number of vehicles using set 20:32:02 <andythenorth_> if 0 => falls to bottom of list 20:32:02 <Alberth> andythenorth_: otherwise you get consist sets, livery sets, replacement sets, etc etc 20:32:37 <andythenorth_> liveries I think can be ignored 20:32:44 <andythenorth_> replacement is replaced by consists 20:32:50 <andythenorth_> consists are tricky 20:33:21 <Alberth> most likely, people are going to hook more stuff to it 20:33:46 <andythenorth_> I think orders are a special case 20:33:50 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-178.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:33:56 <andythenorth_> everything else is a property on vehicles 20:33:57 <Alberth> I'd hope so 20:34:28 <Alberth> orders can also be considered that way if you ignore shared orders 20:34:45 <andythenorth_> the issue seems to be that some (don't know how many) players feel (strongly) that orders are a 'thing' in their own right 20:34:49 <Rubidium> replacement is hooked to groups though 20:35:07 <andythenorth_> personally I found the whole orders thing a bit scary and unnecessary 20:35:15 <andythenorth_> I understand shared orders though 20:35:23 <Alberth> because shared orders are nowadays the only form of useful groups 20:35:56 <andythenorth_> I only tried to figure out orders because (a) it seems to be necessary for rv-wagons (b) all the suggestions I saw fricking sucked and would break the game for me horribly 20:36:19 <andythenorth_> personally I reckon they could be left alone 20:36:25 <andythenorth_> consists are way more interesting and useful 20:36:55 <Alberth> I'd like first to have a picture of the 'new' situation, then I'll worry about preserving the 'old' styles of playing 20:37:09 <andythenorth_> shall we continue then? 20:37:10 <Alberth> yes, consists may be more interesting to start with 20:37:26 *** Zuu [~Zuu@2.68.4.155] has joined #openttd 20:37:33 <andythenorth_> I know how to create a consist 20:37:33 <Alberth> not now, /me needs sleep 20:37:37 <andythenorth_> ok 20:37:48 * andythenorth_ needs to tidy away a big pile of lego 20:38:11 <Alberth> I used to fill the whole floor of my bedroom with it :) 20:38:29 * Zuu too 20:38:32 <andythenorth_> I still do 20:38:36 <Alberth> with a path of 20cm width to the door from my bed :) 20:38:42 <planetmaker> :-) 20:39:20 <planetmaker> we had a "playroom" at home in the cellar. It wasn't small. But the lego town took most of the space :-) 20:39:42 <Eddi|zuHause> you actually managed to leave a path?!? :p 20:40:15 <Zuu> Not just some places to hop between? :-) 20:40:35 <andythenorth_> sometimes I fill my floor with pixels :P 20:40:45 <andythenorth_> they are sharp if you tread on them in the dark 20:40:48 <Alberth> in a pitch black room that does not work well :) 20:42:16 <Alberth> good night 20:42:42 <Zuu> night Alberth 20:42:52 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:44:30 * Zuu find it interesting that about 7-9 page views on tt-forums use the same amount of data as just loading and quickly checknig the gmail inbox. :-) 20:45:42 <SpComb> with cached resources? 20:45:49 <Zuu> probably 20:46:14 <Zuu> and Add Block on the adds + tt-forums logotype and some of the other stuff at the header. 20:51:29 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4db800a1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:55:29 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-111-154.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:55:38 *** Zuu [~Zuu@2.68.4.155] has quit [Quit: bed] 20:56:40 *** perk111 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 20:57:27 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-95-185.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 20:57:30 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 21:00:52 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:03:31 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8413.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:05:27 *** perk111 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 21:06:19 *** rellig [~rellig@vs1191017.vserver.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:04 *** planetmaker [~pm@vs185047.vserver.de] has quit [Quit: ...und tschￜￜ!] 21:10:04 *** tneo [~tneo@vs185047.vserver.de] has quit [Quit: ZNC by prozac - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 21:10:04 *** Osai [~Osai@vs185047.vserver.de] has quit [Quit: bye - http://www.openttdcoop.org] 21:10:04 *** SmatZ [~SmatZ@vs185047.vserver.de] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 21:10:04 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@vs185047.vserver.de] has quit [Quit: Solong, and thanks for all the fish] 21:21:32 *** Tennel [~Tennel@88.150.10.194] has joined #openttd 21:34:00 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fc352.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:12 *** GT [~GT@rt-scb-9f41.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:39:29 *** andythenorth_ [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth_] 21:41:41 * GT wonders what it would take to get the 32bpp project organised again 21:42:13 <GT> s/again// 21:42:20 <Yexo> was about to ask that :p 21:42:26 <Yexo> the again part 21:42:40 <Yexo> what is the status of jupix repository? 21:43:01 <__ln__> infinite amounts of money and a dictator 21:43:15 <GT> things get added, but z2 (default zoom) is lagging a lot 21:43:51 <avdg> just work on it, so the project works again? 21:45:20 <GT> I'm doing my best, update the code, update some things on Jupix repo, update the wiki, but it's too much to do it all (or maybe I should quit my job..) 21:45:50 <GT> reply to user questions, explain why is does not work 21:46:47 <GT> is->it 21:48:31 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:49:05 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0b8955.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 21:49:23 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.61.251] has joined #openttd 21:51:44 <Yexo> if it's about getting sprites done: you need to set a goal 21:52:03 <Yexo> jupix repository is "dump everything as long as it's a 32bpp sprite" 21:52:41 <Yexo> if you want to replace all baseset sprites with 32bpp alternatives you should set that as goal, create a repository for that (or use one you already have) and only accept sprites for that 21:52:47 *** FloSoft [bouncer@www.siedler25.org] has joined #openttd 21:53:12 <Yexo> ignore replacesments for sprites you already have and only add new ones if they A) have a good licence and B) are not completely bad 21:53:36 <Yexo> in other words (as __ln__ already said): it needs a dictator 21:53:42 <GT> like http://jupix.info/openttd/gfxdev-nightlies/ 21:54:33 <GT> but to get things included, it needs some work, and that is where things stall, the work to be done might need some explaining eg on the wiki 21:55:25 <Yexo> ideally you don't want to bother the artists with that, just let them dump all sprites they can create (of course in a useful format) 21:55:39 <Yexo> than have a few people (as less as possible) that do the coding work 21:55:54 <Yexo> where coding = create a tar, renaming the sprite files and pngcoding them 21:56:36 <Yexo> also I think that the "dev version megapack" is more hindering any progress than helping it 21:57:02 <Yexo> users want the most complete packages, so I wonder if anyone uses the "standard" megapack 21:57:04 <GT> that's an interesting thought, please elaborate on that 21:57:27 <Yexo> which in turn means that artists have no real motivation to get their graphics in the standard package because their graphics are used anyway 21:58:55 <Yexo> the effect that pack is creating is that those sprites are "somewhat useable", where in fact you should create the image they're "not useful at all" 21:59:16 <Yexo> of course all manual megapacks are doing the same, as is the wiki with multiple downloadable tars (in an old format?) 21:59:49 <Yexo> don't give users a choice which pack they download, or at least make the dev pack hard to find (so only developers/artists will find it) 21:59:59 *** avdg [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:00:07 *** avdg [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 22:00:54 <Yexo> ^^ of course it's still not sure that will work: I still think the main thing that is missing is a clear goal 22:04:16 <GT> Well, thanks for the useful input, you've given me certainly something to think about, which I am going to do now in my bed. CU soon 22:04:27 <GT> bye 22:04:32 *** CIA-2 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04:38 <Yexo> one more thing: useful documentation in the forum 22:05:20 <GT> Right, should very clearly link to good wiki docs, in findable forum stickies 22:05:30 <Yexo> first 2 stickies are _very_ long, then there is one about pngcodec, then there a few useful topics: blender thread, extra zoom levels, nightly builds 22:05:49 <Yexo> both the blender and the extra-zoom one are so big nobody is going to read them 22:06:51 *** KouDy [~KouDy@82.100.0.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:06:54 <GT> the megapack is also not doing very much good: old info, old binaries -->lots of questions, more harm than benefit 22:07:07 <GT> megapack thread 22:07:24 <Yexo> 32Bpp Graphics Pack (13/03/2010) <- that one? 22:07:28 <GT> yes 22:07:39 <Yexo> just make sure it's de-stickied and locked with a link to a newer thread 22:08:48 <GT> will contact Jupix about that. Didnt I say I was searching my bed? I'm really going to do that now. 22:08:58 <Yexo> ok, night GT 22:09:04 *** GT [~GT@rt-scb-9f41.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: exit (0)] 22:09:16 *** davis [~b@p5B28BE12.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:11:53 *** azaghal [~azaghal@109.207.46.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:15:53 *** azaghal [~azaghal@109.207.46.250] has joined #openttd 22:18:52 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe83de00-38.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 22:23:26 *** Chillosophy [~fu@82-170-139-109.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [] 22:27:25 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0e43b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:00 *** CIA-1 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #openttd 22:36:09 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-178.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 22:44:59 *** KouDy [~KouDy@82.100.0.78] has joined #openttd 22:54:30 *** Tennel [~Tennel@88.150.10.194] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:59:21 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:59:36 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 23:00:51 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:01:46 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:05:39 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-178.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:07:35 *** KouDy [~KouDy@82.100.0.78] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:22:20 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC3B49.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 23:25:38 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B085.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:49 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:32:17 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 23:50:55 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:90e6:bf46:c328:72e8] has quit [Quit: bye] 23:57:04 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:57:34 *** avdg [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has left #openttd []