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00:04:22 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-213-49-110-200.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [] 00:09:52 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.18.4.37] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 00:17:12 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@52490A5B.cm-4-2a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 00:19:53 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:24:44 *** enr1x [~kiike@230.227.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 00:25:02 <enr1x> hi guys! 00:25:19 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:25:27 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-101-197.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:25:58 <enr1x> i have a quick question: why an industry would say "65% transported) even though there would be a vehicle ready for pickup? 00:27:04 <Eddi|zuHause> it depends on the average station rating 00:27:28 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:27:28 <Eddi|zuHause> see the wiki for details 00:28:27 <enr1x> yeah, i was looking at the wiki actually 00:29:30 <enr1x> what part exactly, Eddi? i might have overlooked something 00:31:25 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 00:34:44 <Eddi|zuHause> http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_mechanics#Station_rating 00:36:06 <Eddi|zuHause> the industry will take the average of this value over some time (like a month or so) and base its production level on it 00:36:53 <Eddi|zuHause> if it's lower than 33%, industry may have increased chance of closing, higher than 66% has an increased chance of growing 00:41:46 <enr1x> ok, thanks a lot for this acclaration, Eddi|zuHause 00:54:36 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 01:00:46 <lugo> for this what? 01:00:49 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-178.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 01:01:24 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 01:02:04 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:02:41 <Eddi|zuHause> acceleration... how bad is your error compensation?! 01:20:55 <lugo> well it's more sceptical than yours i guess 01:21:14 <lugo> he could have also gotten declaration very wrong ;( 01:21:15 <lugo> ;) 01:23:14 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-178.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:27:18 *** enr1x [~kiike@230.227.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:29:13 *** azaghal [~azaghal@109.207.46.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:38:06 *** azaghal [~azaghal@109.207.46.250] has joined #openttd 01:38:42 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 01:38:44 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:39:31 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 01:54:22 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by 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[~Terkhen@222.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 05:41:13 <_Terkhen_> good morning 05:49:22 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:54:32 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 05:56:00 *** KouDy [~KouDy@82.100.0.78] has joined #openttd 06:14:30 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0b8955.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:20:46 *** _Terkhen_ [~Terkhen@222.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...] 06:21:37 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe83de00-38.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 06:22:36 *** ogre [~ogre@par69-2-82-224-40-212.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 06:24:11 *** ogre is now known as troyen 06:25:29 *** troyen [~ogre@par69-2-82-224-40-212.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 06:25:58 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 06:42:55 *** goblin [~flo@dslb-088-066-117-155.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 06:48:15 *** Mortomes|Work [~MortomesW@mail.qps.nl] has joined #openttd 06:49:53 *** Mortomes|Work is now known as Mortomes|TGIF 06:54:38 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice2n2.emea.ibm.com] has joined #openttd 06:55:13 *** norbert79 is now known as Guest1070 06:55:25 *** Guest1070 is now known as norbert79 06:59:55 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:06:48 *** rawbeef64 [~rawbeef64@86.122.14.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:10:15 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 07:14:34 *** mattfury [~matt@CPE-124-186-174-152.lns11.woo.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:14:58 <mattfury> hello 07:15:15 <mattfury> theres a new maglev concept not in openttd... 07:16:12 <Noldo> why aren't you coding it? 07:16:20 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 07:17:07 <mattfury> i heard china was considering evacuated train tunnels so they can acheive even higher speeds 07:17:26 <mattfury> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beach_Pneumatic_Transit 07:17:53 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.61.251] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:18:03 <mattfury> Noldo, also i know nothing about development :/ 07:18:22 <mattfury> i can program in VB, HTML, CSS but not C++/perl 07:18:51 <norbert79> mattfury: There are lot of things not available in OpenTTD, but unless you start creating it, you won't get it beloved nor any support for the coding part 07:19:10 <norbert79> mattfury: I have just started to create a hungarian building set, but it will take a while :) 07:19:47 <mattfury> oh really that sounds cool... 07:20:42 <norbert79> mattfury: Way off from finishing, just started it... http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=903392#p903392 07:21:06 <norbert79> the lowest picture is the first test-sprite based on the OpenTTD Palette 07:21:38 <Rubidium> mattfury: if "evacuated train tunnels" mean "near-vacuum tunnels", then it has been proposed in the 1960s already 07:22:26 <norbert79> Rubidium: Whats the difference between these "evacuated train tunnels" and those Underground/Metro like tunnel concepts? 07:22:42 <Noldo> price 07:22:48 <Rubidium> air drag 07:22:53 <norbert79> Ahha 07:23:08 <norbert79> so basically just higher speeds 07:23:38 <mattfury> http://inhabitat.com/2010/08/05/china-developing-a-train-that-can-go-620-miles-per-hour/ 07:24:17 <Rubidium> 620 is peanuts. The 1960s idea is about 5000 miles per hour between Europe and the US 07:24:20 <norbert79> that would make a sound when derailed ;-) 07:24:24 <norbert79> lol 07:24:29 <norbert79> 5000 miles / hour... 07:24:44 <norbert79> Not possible 07:25:07 <mattfury> it'd have to be shaped like the latest jets :| 07:25:12 <Rubidium> norbert79: why not? Vacuum 07:25:18 <Rubidium> that helps a lot 07:25:31 <norbert79> Rubidium: it might be possible but would have fatal effects on the passengers 07:25:47 <Noldo> how? 07:25:48 <mattfury> Rubidium, do you haz sauce on this 5000/mile idea? 07:25:48 <norbert79> it's the human side, where it makes impossible 07:26:00 <Rubidium> norbert79: why is it fatal for passengers? 07:26:15 <Noldo> you just have to not accelerate and deaccelerate too fast 07:26:26 <norbert79> Rubidium: Do you know how big the turns have to be at such speeds? 07:26:54 <norbert79> Rubidium: Just think on a generic airline jet, or a fighter 07:26:54 <Rubidium> norbert79: straight lines don't have turns 07:27:05 <norbert79> Rubidium: Good luck building it through a straight line 07:27:23 <Noldo> I wonder would it be curved along the surface of the earth 07:27:25 <norbert79> even under the ocean you will not be able to build it in a straight line 07:27:30 <ccfreak2k> Noldo, probably. 07:27:32 <norbert79> It has to be 07:27:41 <ccfreak2k> It would also cross tectonic boundaries. 07:27:54 <ccfreak2k> Plates shift, tunnel misaligns...game over. 07:27:54 <norbert79> Which is also a big issue 07:27:58 <norbert79> indeed 07:29:21 <mattfury> i always hated the earthquakes in simcity because they destroy everything! :D 07:29:37 <norbert79> and if you want to go even deeper, closer to the core of earth, then you have to face with the issue of the floating elements, and the heat 07:29:52 <norbert79> mattfury: Thats what earthquakes do normally you see :D 07:30:45 <mattfury> any reason it hasnt been added to openttd?? 07:30:58 <norbert79> mattfury: Noone was interested in doing it 07:31:14 <norbert79> mattfury: Second issue, that you are not able to build undergrounds/metros 07:31:18 <norbert79> yet 07:31:29 <norbert79> so there are several issues to be solved before you can implement 07:31:59 <norbert79> so if you want to do it, you have to start analyzing at least GRF-s 07:32:08 <norbert79> which I am also doing :) 07:34:27 <norbert79> mattfury: As a start look for the development pages for GRFs, check out the Wiki, and analyze the OpenGFX package's source file 07:34:39 <norbert79> so you can understand the concept how GRF-s work 07:36:57 <ccfreak2k> Perhaps supersonic passenger jets can be re-examined. 07:37:45 <norbert79> Creating a flying, supersonic train o_O? 07:39:15 <ccfreak2k> Yeah, except there's only one car. 07:39:22 <ccfreak2k> And they're kind of bolted together. 07:39:34 <norbert79> that would remark me on Star Treks shuttles 07:39:40 <ccfreak2k> There are even small trains that drive on road surfaces! 07:40:03 <norbert79> You know what would be nice? 07:40:15 <norbert79> Those boat-buses, what you can see in Venice 07:40:20 <norbert79> that would make sense 07:40:41 <mattfury> boats = so outdated technology... 07:40:43 <mattfury> too slow 07:40:55 <norbert79> mattfury: Tell the Venicers :D 07:41:19 <norbert79> "Sorry dudes, that you have all these channels and rivers and stuff, but boats are soo outdated..." 07:41:26 <norbert79> :D 07:41:46 <ccfreak2k> You know, if they got rid of the water they wouldn't have to use boats. 07:42:04 <norbert79> ccfreak2k: Pity, that their whole city is a big floating isle 07:42:19 <ccfreak2k> It's a bit charitable to call it floating. 07:42:51 <mattfury> i can see trains running across the ocean on locked buoys... 07:43:07 <norbert79> till the first storm comes by 07:43:31 <norbert79> boats will never be outdated 07:43:35 <norbert79> I mean ships 07:44:19 <mattfury> ok you can take the jet-ship; ill take the jet ;) 07:44:49 <mattfury> see who gets around the world first :D 07:45:16 <norbert79> mattfury: It's not about being first, that was outdated in 1912, when Titanic sunk :) 07:45:42 <norbert79> Besides, deliver several tousand of goods with a jet 07:45:46 <norbert79> good luck :) 07:45:53 <norbert79> tousand tons 07:46:10 <mattfury> ok so ill make billions... you make millions not *that* much of a difference :P 07:46:44 <norbert79> mattfury: The problem is, that you think in small, but I don't care. :) 07:47:47 <mattfury> You've never seen the simpsons episode where Mr Burns loses a couple of billion dollars and gets sent to the millionaires club and then mocked have you? ^^ 07:48:24 <norbert79> mattfury: I did, but I don't see the point in this whole discussion. Simpsons is Simpsons, reality is reality :) 07:48:41 <mattfury> its good satire =D 07:48:51 <norbert79> if it would be otherwise, I would be an Einstein in a body of superman with capabilities of all heroes and having all the best girls 07:49:37 <mattfury> Einstein *is* stupid. 07:50:08 <norbert79> mattfury: May I ask for your age, if you don't mind? :) 07:50:41 <mattfury> 21... 07:51:03 <norbert79> Blackjack! :D 07:51:03 <mattfury> look up Schrodinger's cat theory :) 07:51:37 *** _Terkhen_ [~Terkhen@222.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 07:51:45 <norbert79> mattfury: I know Schrödinger's theory, but it was just a simple explanation of a problem of a still expanding topic... 07:52:18 <norbert79> mattfury: Where Einstein made analysis on rules, which hasn1t been overruled yet... But for Christ Sake, it's OpenTTD, not #math 07:52:55 <mattfury> So still would you be Einstein or Schrodinger? 07:53:22 <norbert79> I wiil be the one, who will stop this conversation :) 07:55:17 <mattfury> sure it's a little off-topic, but if Schrodinger & Einstein decided to invent a ship/jet/train who's do you think would be better? :) 07:55:36 * norbert79 facepalms... 07:56:20 <mattfury> lol 07:57:26 <mattfury> bash.org anyone? :D 07:58:20 <norbert79> Ok, off to something 07:58:23 <norbert79> brbsoon 07:58:31 <_Terkhen_> I can't decide between a train with a relativistic point of view different to everyone's else or a train that might exist or not 07:58:40 <_Terkhen_> both sound kind of useless 07:59:01 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC3B49.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:00:42 *** norbert791 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice2n2.emea.ibm.com] has joined #openttd 08:06:23 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice2n2.emea.ibm.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:07:43 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:09:06 <andythenorth> could we extend action 14 with some more properties similar to description? 08:09:19 <andythenorth> a 'long description' property 08:09:29 <andythenorth> and a 'compatibility' property 08:22:05 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-22-216.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 08:28:27 *** goblin [~flo@dslb-088-066-117-155.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:39:21 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 08:46:02 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@devera.geophys.nat.tu-bs.de] has joined #openttd 08:46:33 *** planetmaker is now known as Guest1080 08:47:19 *** Guest1080 is now known as planetmaker 08:47:38 <planetmaker> good morning 08:48:14 <SmatZ> hello planetmaker 08:49:03 <planetmaker> moin SmatZ :-) 08:50:54 <andythenorth> morning 08:51:28 <_Terkhen_> hello everybody 08:51:37 <SmatZ> hello :) 08:52:17 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:52:29 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice1n2.emea.ibm.com] has joined #openttd 08:53:03 *** norbert79 is now known as Guest1083 08:54:06 <andythenorth> no devzone? 08:54:30 <planetmaker> hell andythenorth _Terkhen_ 08:54:40 *** Guest1083 is now known as norbert79 08:54:41 <planetmaker> andythenorth, no, the data centre seems to have trouble 08:54:47 <norbert79> back... 08:54:52 <planetmaker> our host server of the vserver is down 08:55:16 <dihedral> \o/ 08:55:28 <norbert79> Hooray for virtualization :D 08:55:32 <norbert79> guess no backup server 08:55:37 <dihedral> ... 08:55:45 <planetmaker> the backup server is said to be running. But ... 08:55:54 <norbert79> :)) 08:57:12 * andythenorth looks for something to do 08:57:20 <andythenorth> it has to be instantly interruptable by babies 08:57:51 <planetmaker> drawing? ;-) 08:58:43 *** norbert791 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice2n2.emea.ibm.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:59:51 <dihedral> andythenorth, know anything about java? 09:01:27 <planetmaker> in any case, I can't do more right now that telling them "fix it fast" - which I already did 09:01:52 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:02:36 <andythenorth> dihedral: nothing 09:03:16 * andythenorth wonders what to set for values of TE etc for a vehicle that has both road and rail versions 09:04:54 *** rawbeef64 [~rawbeef64@86.122.14.1] has joined #openttd 09:05:05 <andythenorth> the rail version carries an extra few tonnes of weight for adhesion 09:05:26 <planetmaker> andythenorth, depending on traction type, I'd say :-) 09:05:48 *** rawbeef64 [~rawbeef64@86.122.14.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:06:53 <andythenorth> rubber tyres 09:07:03 <andythenorth> co-efficient of friction is 0.94 09:07:06 <andythenorth> apparently 09:08:04 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbab717.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:15:42 <norbert79> Damn fire-alarm-tests... 09:19:12 *** GIORDANO [724f377e@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 09:20:01 <GIORDANO> Anyone know the settings to remove the trees in the landscape ?. Since it is very disturbing vision .. 09:20:41 <GIORDANO> in transport tycoon deluxe can remove it with savegame configurator. 09:20:47 <GIORDANO> how about in openttd 09:21:11 <GIORDANO> anyone know how to remove it the tree ? 09:21:33 *** Joni_ [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-fe00dc00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:22:15 <GIORDANO> ????? 09:22:29 <norbert79> Why don't you just use the transparent option for trees? 09:22:34 <Mortomes|TGIF> GIORDANO: How about we cut a deal 09:22:46 <Mortomes|TGIF> GIORDANO: You use the option to remove caps, and we'll tell you all about the option to remove trees. 09:23:23 * planetmaker hugs Mortomes|TGIF 09:23:42 <norbert79> Hey, look up in the sky... is it a bird?... :) 09:25:04 <GIORDANO> ow 09:26:01 <norbert79> use /nick Giordano 09:26:35 *** andythenorth is now known as ANDYTHENORTH 09:26:42 *** GIORDANO is now known as Giordano 09:26:57 <planetmaker> pew 09:26:57 <norbert79> Andyyyy..... 09:27:01 <Giordano> ... 09:27:24 <norbert79> Andy, it's not funny... 09:27:25 * ANDYTHENORTH wonders what effect hi-rail trucks will have on gameplay 09:27:37 *** Joni- [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-fe00dc00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:27:43 *** ANDYTHENORTH is now known as AnDyThEnOrTh 09:27:47 <norbert79> Better 09:27:47 * AnDyThEnOrTh how leet 09:27:55 <planetmaker> :-P 09:27:56 <AnDyThEnOrTh> like a perverted camel case 09:28:00 *** AnDyThEnOrTh is now known as Andythenorth 09:28:01 <norbert79> Too bad the capsed vocals do not make sense 09:28:06 <planetmaker> ask your son about that, Andythenorth ;-) 09:28:06 *** Andythenorth is now known as andythenorth 09:28:08 <Yexo> Giordano: advanced settings->construction->"in game placement of trees", set to "none' 09:28:28 <Yexo> or press "ctrl+X" and click the trees button and the button under it to make them invisible 09:28:45 <norbert79> Giordano: Other option, if you want to still use trees but it blocks your view: use the transparency settings in "Settings" 09:28:46 <planetmaker> ^ 09:28:50 <Yexo> you can also set "Tree algorithm" to "none" in the world generation window to start a game without any trees 09:28:52 <norbert79> or that 09:29:26 <norbert79> No more MrCapsLock phrases for me :( 09:29:29 <Giordano> oh... 09:29:45 <Giordano> ok :) 09:29:49 <Giordano> thank you :) 09:30:21 <norbert79> yet I love trees, especially the "Stolen Trees" 09:30:26 *** KouDy [~KouDy@82.100.0.78] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:31:00 *** Tennel [~Tennel@88.150.10.194] has joined #openttd 09:34:11 <Mortomes|TGIF> Wow, did I actually accomplish the destruction of the CAPSMONSTER? 09:34:25 * andythenorth enters fun world of cb36 09:34:28 <norbert79> Don't mention the name of the monster 09:34:40 <norbert79> it destroys the world 09:35:00 <andythenorth> _Terkhen_: wiki implies RVs don't support cb36 for hp, TE etc 09:35:09 <_Terkhen_> they don't 09:35:11 <andythenorth> iirc, you got stuck on cb36 support? 09:35:13 <norbert79> whats cb36? 09:35:19 <andythenorth> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Callbacks#Change_vehicle_properties_36_ 09:35:20 *** KouDy [~KouDy@82.100.0.78] has joined #openttd 09:35:25 <_Terkhen_> the patch is coded, but never tested 09:35:37 <andythenorth> I am about to write some code that would test it ;) 09:35:46 <andythenorth> assuming that's not a pointless activity 09:35:58 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbab717.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:36:12 <_Terkhen_> http://devs.openttd.org/~terkhen/patches/150-callback_36_support.diff <--- it's probably very outdated by now, but it should not be very complicated to update 09:36:51 <_Terkhen_> in theory it supports power, weight and tractive effort, a GRF to test all three would be very appreciated :) 09:37:13 <andythenorth> I have a valid case for power and weight 09:37:24 <andythenorth> TE not so much, but am happy to make a test 09:37:38 <andythenorth> I'll do it today, subject to baby interruptions 09:38:07 <_Terkhen_> take your time... I won't be able to code anything today 09:39:15 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:41:00 <andythenorth> cpp can't do maths can it? 09:42:24 <planetmaker> it can't really 09:42:32 <andythenorth> bah 09:42:52 <andythenorth> that means I can't use defines for hp, speed, etc to share across road/rail vehicles 09:43:19 <planetmaker> how so? 09:43:36 <Yexo> andythenorth: start using nml :p 09:44:10 <planetmaker> :-D 09:44:21 <planetmaker> I had to stop myself writing that exact sentence ;-) 09:44:26 <andythenorth> planetmaker: RVs use hp/1; trains use hp/10 09:44:37 <planetmaker> ah, yes 09:44:49 <Yexo> or you can try another preprocessor, like m4 09:45:37 <andythenorth> probably best to just hard code it and leave comments behind 09:46:13 <planetmaker> given the current state of HEQS: yes 09:47:02 <andythenorth> could I specify some vehicles with nml, have that compiled to nfo by make, then pass the resulting compiled nfo to grfcodec? 09:47:13 <andythenorth> hmm 09:47:18 <planetmaker> yes 09:47:27 <andythenorth> is there an nml-nfo output 09:47:38 <andythenorth> or compile nml, decompile with grfcodec 09:47:50 <andythenorth> probably tmwftlb 09:48:01 <planetmaker> the nml NFO output is nicer than grfcodecs as you keep the comments 09:48:15 <planetmaker> s/cs/c's/ 09:48:33 <planetmaker> doing that probably would not be much work 09:49:56 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:50:09 <Yexo> only you can't give varaction2's an id 09:50:14 <Yexo> those ids are autogenerated 09:51:01 <Yexo> for action0 that is no problem 09:53:44 <dihedral> arg - vpn down :-S 09:56:39 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@63.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 09:57:13 *** Terkhen is now known as Guest1091 10:02:54 *** _Terkhen_ [~Terkhen@222.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:03:24 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 10:04:27 *** KouDy [~KouDy@82.100.0.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:07:35 *** Guest1091 is now known as _Terkhen_ 10:12:25 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 10:14:28 *** KouDy [~KouDy@82.100.0.78] has joined #openttd 10:17:02 <Giordano> hard to find a plane that can be downloaded :( 10:17:27 <Giordano> I like weird aircraft. :) 10:17:57 <Giordano> like av8 aviator aircraft or yate :) 10:19:27 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 10:19:58 *** |Terkhen| [~Terkhen@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 10:20:28 *** V453000 [~V453000@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 10:21:36 *** Ammler [~ammler@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 10:27:19 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@devera.geophys.nat.tu-bs.de] has quit [Quit: back another time] 10:30:21 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@devera.geophys.nat.tu-bs.de] has joined #openttd 10:30:42 *** APTX_ [~APTX@chello089077244008.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 10:31:11 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089077244008.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:33:04 <andythenorth> so NARS 2 has vehicles which use same ID, but change HP over time 10:33:10 <andythenorth> good or annoying? 10:33:19 <andythenorth> I like it, except when trying to upgrade same model of vehicle 10:34:20 <planetmaker> doesn't hurt, does it? 10:34:41 <andythenorth> saves cluttering the buy menu 10:34:59 <planetmaker> it does indeed 10:35:17 <planetmaker> It's basically like any car company giving a model a face lift 10:35:23 <Hirundo> It makes upgrading vehicles a bit cumbersome, sometimes (esp. the generational caboose) 10:35:24 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@52490A5B.cm-4-2a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:35:40 <planetmaker> they still call it e.g. VW Golf. But now it's meanwhile version 6 which looks quite different from version 1 10:36:33 <andythenorth> exactly 10:37:10 *** _Terkhen_ [~Terkhen@63.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...] 10:38:34 <andythenorth> same effect could be achieved by using different IDs 10:38:41 <andythenorth> but then renew would break 10:38:59 <andythenorth> so in one route, renew breaks, in the other, auto-replace breaks 10:39:43 <Giordano> http://au.images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=guppy+airplane 10:39:51 <Giordano> beautiful airplane :) 10:41:02 <planetmaker> there's always some quirks. But... how does either or break? 10:41:42 <andythenorth> if different IDs (and vehicle not available), renew will fail 10:41:54 <andythenorth> if same IDs, can't auto-replace to the more powerful model 10:42:20 <andythenorth> i.e. version 1 is ID A1, 1957-1970 10:42:31 <andythenorth> version 2 is ID A2, 1970-1984 10:42:41 <andythenorth> renew will fail 10:46:17 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.18.4.37] has joined #openttd 10:46:20 *** Giordano [724f377e@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 10:55:29 *** __ln__ [~lauri@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:57:55 *** |Terkhen| is now known as Terkhen 11:01:15 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A5E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:09:44 *** Progman_ [~progman@p57A1D956.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:14:07 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A5E4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:14:08 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman 11:34:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i just had a crazy 2007 flashback... 11:36:26 *** __ln__ [~lauri@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd 11:37:23 <planetmaker> andythenorth, thanks. makes sense... seems like... it is a place which could need some care 11:41:25 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 11:44:43 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-231.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 11:48:56 *** mib_l7kp84 [405c978d@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 11:49:35 *** mib_l7kp84 [405c978d@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [] 12:05:22 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF866E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:05:27 *** XeryusTC [~AndChat@95.99.80.166] has joined #openttd 12:06:04 <XeryusTC> Hello bitches! 12:06:31 <XeryusTC> Irc from the train :D 12:06:35 <SmatZ> :P 12:06:51 <__ln__> that's so 2008's 12:07:02 <XeryusTC> Also, wrong channel 12:07:18 <__ln__> is it even a fast train? 12:07:22 <SmatZ> I don't want to know what is the correct channel :p 12:08:15 <planetmaker> o_o 12:08:48 * SmatZ had a "nice" morning 12:08:57 <SmatZ> the 160-litre water boiler broke 12:09:00 <SmatZ> literally 12:09:10 <SmatZ> so water started spraying everywhere 12:09:26 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds... "fun"... 12:09:27 <SmatZ> luckily I heard that and it woke me up :) 12:09:49 <SmatZ> I wonder, if I was away, and came back home 12:09:57 <SmatZ> with 20cm water in the room :p 12:10:20 <Eddi|zuHause> not pretty... 12:10:46 <SmatZ> at least I don't have to wash myself until Monday ;) 12:10:48 <SmatZ> :p 12:10:58 <Eddi|zuHause> we once had a heating inspector over. and apparently he didn't close a valve properly, and the next day, there were 5cm water on the floor... 12:11:06 <SmatZ> oh :x 12:11:28 <Eddi|zuHause> it was "only" in the cellar, luckily... 12:11:48 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-231.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:11:48 <Eddi|zuHause> so nothing important there on the floor 12:11:58 <SmatZ> my room is in the basement, so the situation would be different :) 12:13:02 <Eddi|zuHause> well, also luckily, we have a door in the basement, so water could flow out... 12:15:10 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:ed92:744f:85b0:f5c4] has joined #openttd 12:15:13 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:16:24 *** XeryusTC2 [~AndChat@188.88.72.65] has joined #openttd 12:17:42 *** XeryusTC is now known as Guest1122 12:17:43 *** XeryusTC2 is now known as XeryusTC 12:21:41 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 12:21:48 *** Guest1122 [~AndChat@95.99.80.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:28:55 <Belugas> hello ttders 12:30:15 <fjb> Moin Belugas 12:34:12 *** andythenorth_ [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:34:46 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8d6db.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:57:07 *** Tennel [~Tennel@88.150.10.194] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 13:01:39 *** Chillosophy [~fu@82-170-139-109.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 13:05:30 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@82.100.0.78] has joined #openttd 13:08:18 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.28.32] has joined #openttd 13:09:31 *** KouDy [~KouDy@82.100.0.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:11:51 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:27:18 *** XeryusTC [~AndChat@188.88.72.65] has quit [Quit: Bye] 13:27:22 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has joined #openttd 13:29:05 *** XeryusTC [~AndChat@188.88.72.65] has joined #openttd 13:40:18 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 13:41:01 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has quit [Quit: Quit] 13:45:48 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has joined #openttd 13:57:58 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 13:58:26 *** davis [~b@p5B28BE5B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:59:07 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice1n2.emea.ibm.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:00:05 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice1n2.emea.ibm.com] has joined #openttd 14:01:58 *** XeryusTC [~AndChat@188.88.72.65] has quit [Quit: Bye] 14:04:36 <norbert79> Todays funny: http://www.threadless.com/submission/305462/Final_Boss 14:12:41 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 14:15:41 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-67-91.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:18:08 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0b8955.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 14:19:35 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:34:33 *** avdg [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:35:45 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8d6db.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:37:26 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 14:47:37 * Mortomes|TGIF declares weekend! 14:47:56 *** Yexo [~Yexo@153-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Quit: bye] 14:48:06 * norbert79 accepts Mortomes|TGIF offer... 14:51:20 * Belugas has to wait a bit more 14:55:41 *** Mortomes|TGIF [~MortomesW@mail.qps.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:57:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r21055 /trunk/src/map.cpp: -Codechange [FS#4190]: Code style fix (chillcore) 15:01:04 <norbert79> For you all: http://wimp.com/miniaturewonderland/ 15:01:23 <norbert79> Guess our German friends know this already :) 15:04:39 <norbert79> A living OpenTTD :) 15:12:57 <Belugas> the camera work is incredible! 15:13:33 <norbert79> Belugas: Full 3D, no patches required! :D 15:13:35 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8d6db.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:20:46 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF866E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:23:13 <norbert79> laterz! 15:23:18 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice1n2.emea.ibm.com] has left #openttd [] 15:34:37 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:46:06 <andythenorth_> what's the velocity of a long train on a horseshoe curve? 15:50:49 <andythenorth_> (relative to the earth) 15:53:19 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:01:18 *** planetmaker is now known as Guest1157 16:01:29 *** planetmaker [~chatzilla@dslb-088-070-037-239.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:01:56 <Prof_Frink> andythenorth_: African or European long train? 16:02:07 <andythenorth_> lego 16:02:24 <andythenorth_> about 50 miles north of you by my guess 16:03:18 *** mattfury [~matt@CPE-124-186-174-152.lns11.woo.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:06:08 *** Chillosophy [~fu@82-170-139-109.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:06:42 *** Chillosophy [~fu@82-170-139-109.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 16:11:15 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbab717.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:20:54 *** nicfer1 [~nicfer@190.50.11.247] has joined #openttd 16:22:10 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.28.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:23:33 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:25:05 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:43:36 *** saronpasu [~saronpasu@catv075-208.lan-do.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:49:24 *** dnicholls [~chatzilla@host86-142-228-13.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 16:50:50 *** Vitus [~chatzilla@138.194.wms.cz] has joined #openttd 17:04:32 *** Mazur [~mazur@53551A99.cm-6-6a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:12:07 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sirius.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:17:46 <Belugas> burp 17:17:55 <Belugas> pizza time, on the boss 17:18:00 <Belugas> too bad, no beer :S 17:18:11 <Belugas> like... that's indecent! 17:19:04 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sirius.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:21:49 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0ead8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:24:45 <dnicholls> hello hello 17:25:18 <Alberth> hello 17:31:14 <dnicholls> how are we all on this gloriously dark evening? 17:31:23 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-3.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 17:33:17 <SpComb> inside with bright lighting 17:33:44 <Alberth> this channel is all the light I need :p 17:35:44 <dnicholls> nice :) 17:42:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r21056 /trunk/src/lang/turkish.txt: 17:42:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:42:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: turkish - 7 changes by niw3 17:42:40 *** fjb is now known as Guest1165 17:42:42 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFE9BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:48:33 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4baa.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:50:07 *** Guest1165 [~frank@p5DDFC794.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:52:29 *** Vitus [~chatzilla@138.194.wms.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:09:27 *** dnicholls [~chatzilla@host86-142-228-13.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630]] 18:09:55 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.18.4.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:10:59 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbab717.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:12:23 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 18:15:48 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 18:16:10 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 18:19:52 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC3B49.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:20:58 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC55D6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:23:35 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 18:23:41 *** KouDy [~KouDy@82.100.0.78] has joined #openttd 18:25:19 *** enr1x [~kiike@254.Red-88-9-52.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 18:25:35 <enr1x> hi guys! 18:25:39 <enr1x> what is monorail good for? 18:25:56 <enr1x> that is, why should I use it instead of trains for an intracity network? 18:26:35 <enr1x> in the wiki it doesn't tell the advantages or cons... 18:26:42 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@82.100.0.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:27:03 <avdg> monorail is faster then normal rails, but mostly it has a limited trainset 18:27:25 <avdg> if thats an advantage, is your opinion 18:28:05 <enr1x> a monorail would be better than buses in a busy network, for that matter right? 18:28:16 <avdg> depends 18:28:24 <avdg> you need to experiment with it 18:28:54 <Alberth> oh noes, I must play more OpenTTD :p 18:29:10 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4baa.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:14 <enr1x> ok, i'll try, thanks avdg! 18:44:43 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 18:48:05 *** Chillosophy [~fu@82-170-139-109.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [] 18:51:28 <Terkhen> good night 18:51:35 <avdg> gn 18:51:46 <Alberth> good night 19:04:32 <planetmaker> [20:28] <enr1x> what is monorail good for? <-- it really heavily depends upon the add-ons (newgrfs) which you use. 19:04:43 <planetmaker> As money is no issue: use what you think looks best. 19:04:53 <planetmaker> which is a very individual judgement 19:06:01 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.29.246] has joined #openttd 19:08:27 *** nicfer1 [~nicfer@190.50.11.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:13:54 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF866E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:33:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21057 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix [FS#4182] (r20922): network client "fast forward" incrementing counter multiple times in same "GUI" tick causing an invalid state 19:41:40 *** enr1x [~kiike@254.Red-88-9-52.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:42:17 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0ead8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:08 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 20:01:32 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=910673#p910673 <-- i'd like to reply "congrats for successfully not answering the question at all." 20:02:13 <andythenorth_> railtypes or RailTypes? 20:03:05 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: i presume original question wants the former, and both replies the latter. 20:10:33 *** saronpasu [~saronpasu@catv075-208.lan-do.ne.jp] has joined #openttd 20:17:04 <Alberth> andythenorth_: do vehicle sets have meaning? (ie if a vehicle becomes member of a set, can something special happen (getting a livery/consist/order/whatever)?) 20:17:25 <andythenorth_> *no* :D 20:17:36 <andythenorth_> I think it's really important to avoid that kind of magic 20:18:06 <andythenorth_> the only way they can be changed is if the user explicitly performs an action on the vehicle set 20:18:22 <andythenorth_> I could be wrong about this though :) 20:18:29 <Alberth> so no way to keep sets consistent w.r.t. some property 20:19:21 <Alberth> making a set becomes a one-time thing then; make a set, do some action, that's it 20:19:22 <andythenorth_> so all vehicles in set try and maintain a value n for property x 20:19:23 <andythenorth_> ? 20:19:38 <andythenorth_> I think the contents of the vehicle set could be dynamic 20:19:42 <andythenorth_> based on filters 20:19:49 <andythenorth_> but that's an enhancement 20:20:16 <andythenorth_> i.e. filters like reliability, profit 20:20:31 <andythenorth_> but no other changes 20:21:06 <Alberth> if I throw an extra vehicle in some set, you are not going to find it again, I think 20:21:39 <andythenorth_> possibly 20:21:47 <Alberth> nor what you want to have changed on that vehicle, perhaps 20:22:17 <andythenorth_> so imagine I have a set called 'red vehicles' (for whatever strange reason) 20:22:32 <andythenorth_> the set doesn't keep them red 20:22:39 * Alberth nods 20:22:47 <Eddi|zuHause> having all vehicles added to a "set" change their schedule/consist/company colour/etc. could be a user setting in a second step 20:22:48 <andythenorth_> I have to go to some 'action' menu (like existing groups) and choose 'set colour' 20:23:13 <Eddi|zuHause> like autoseparation/autoreplace/autowhatever 20:23:29 <andythenorth_> this way it doesn't matter if a vehicle is in multiple sets - there are no rule conflicts to deal with 20:23:48 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: I know that can be done, but I like it if we don't need that, tbh 20:24:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: it would be nice to have, but not a requirement 20:24:17 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: why? 20:24:25 *** Giordano [724f377e@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:24:26 <Alberth> (would it be nice) 20:25:27 <Alberth> andythenorth_: please continue 20:26:23 <andythenorth_> I'm not sure what else to say about vehicle lists, they seem quite clear to me :o 20:26:31 <andythenorth_> what actions could be performed? 20:26:54 <andythenorth_> set orders / set consist / stop / start / goto depot / send for servicing 20:27:03 <andythenorth_> set colour (in future - doesn't exist yet) 20:27:29 * andythenorth_ wonders if livery should be a vehicle property, not a crazy hack on refits 20:27:34 <andythenorth_> but that's a sidetrack 20:27:40 <Alberth> I understand them, but I find it a bit worrying that I can see already now that no way you are going to manage anything with them, as vehicles just get lost in the sets 20:28:03 <andythenorth_> I have some worries about this whole conceptual system of mine 20:28:07 <andythenorth_> I think it might be too complicated 20:28:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: assume i have two tram lines defined by shared orders. if i now move a tram from the first line to the second line, i might want it so it automatically takes on the new shared orders 20:28:14 <andythenorth_> but players seem to desire the control 20:28:37 <andythenorth_> Eddi|zuHause: that would be order sets 20:28:46 <andythenorth_> ? 20:29:29 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: possibly. but i'd like to have that option from the generic "macromanagement" gui 20:29:44 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: yes, that would be useful. What worries me is that you don't want to do vehicle membership of a set by hand, do you? 20:29:55 <andythenorth_> Eddi|zuHause but then you need a precedence rules gui as well 20:30:03 <Eddi|zuHause> like an "enforce shared orders" button that can be activated for each group, or not. 20:30:21 <andythenorth_> you'll end up micro-managing cascading precedence rules instead of vehicles 20:30:49 <andythenorth_> ;) 20:30:51 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: that could be solved by only enforcing on actual adding to the group, not permanent checks 20:30:52 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: automatic actions open a flood-way of problems, imagine two livery groups, a yellow->green and a green->yellow 20:31:17 <andythenorth_> I think I see what Eddi|zuHause means 20:31:24 <andythenorth_> he's just shortcutting user intention 20:31:41 <andythenorth_> adding to group means 'match to the properties the group is using' 20:31:44 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't work with consists/autoreplace, though. 20:32:25 <andythenorth_> we haven't talked much about consists 20:32:28 <andythenorth_> we should :) 20:33:20 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 20:33:51 <Alberth> are they so difficult? just a set of mappings of consists X to consists Y, where wagons of Y can come from X or be 'new' 20:34:13 <Alberth> with some cycle protection :) 20:34:48 * Alberth ponders refits 20:35:07 <andythenorth_> how do I make a new consist? 20:35:18 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:35:20 <andythenorth_> (I know they can be arranged using same method as depot) 20:35:28 <Eddi|zuHause> rearranging virtual or real vehicles in a depot-like gui 20:35:39 <andythenorth_> but where do I manage all consists, and choose 'new consist' 20:35:55 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:56 <Alberth> probably Y becomes entirely 'new' ? 20:36:19 <andythenorth_> does adding vehicles to a consist cost money (minor question) 20:36:20 <Rubidium> how do you store consists outside of a savegame? Because people with definitely ask for them to be loaded in another savegame 20:36:34 <andythenorth_> does autoreplace still exist? 20:36:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: similar to newgrf-presets? 20:36:41 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 20:37:25 <andythenorth_> if I have 20 consists all using 8x passenger carriage 'gumdrop', and I want to use new carriage 'applejack', autoreplace might still be valid 20:37:39 <Alberth> andythenorth_: mappings from X to Y is 'virtual', it defines just how to compose a new consist, as such it should not cost money imho 20:37:46 <andythenorth_> yup 20:37:50 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-088-076-108-080.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:38:29 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: you change the consist in the "list all consists"-depot-gui, and vehicles using this consist will automatically replace on next depot visit 20:38:45 <andythenorth_> which is fine 20:38:46 <Alberth> besides the mappings, you also need to enable the X -> Y transition (with options like 'now' 'when old') 20:38:55 <andythenorth_> but what about the consists themselves? 20:38:56 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-088-076-108-080.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 20:39:18 <andythenorth_> Eddi|zuHause: so I have 200 trains, using 20 consists... 20:39:33 <andythenorth_> and I want to change a vehicle in all 20 consists... 20:39:40 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: you have some helper functions to affect all consists 20:39:44 <andythenorth_> yes 20:39:46 <Rubidium> sub-consists! :) 20:39:53 <Eddi|zuHause> or all consists matching certain criteria 20:39:54 <andythenorth_> autoreplace! 20:40:02 <andythenorth_> bring back autoreplace, all is forgiven! 20:40:05 <andythenorth_> with groups! 20:40:10 <Alberth> meta-consist replacements :) 20:40:13 <andythenorth_> can I group my consists? 20:40:14 <andythenorth_> :P 20:40:29 <Alberth> that would be simplest perhaps 20:40:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say "yes", but it might get difficult 20:41:52 <Alberth> autoreplace is just generation of X->Y mappings where the engine gets changed 20:44:05 <Eddi|zuHause> useful options could be "when old", "when servicing", "immediately", "only when replacement vehicle in depot" 20:47:25 <andythenorth_> nice idea 20:47:45 <andythenorth_> I'm not sure how we keep some form of autoreplace though, without also demanding groups of some kind 20:47:54 <andythenorth_> we just make the problem worse not better 20:53:38 <Alberth> given that engine replacement happens most often, we could have 'copy-wagons' buttons to copy them from X to Y as a starting point for the user. 20:55:19 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-95-185.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:55:48 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 20:57:05 <andythenorth_> Alberth: does that work on individual consists, or all consists? 20:57:27 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-66-43.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 20:57:30 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 20:57:42 <Alberth> I'd say individual ones 20:58:19 <andythenorth_> me too 20:58:55 <andythenorth_> but it leaves me missing current style of auto-replace 21:00:54 <Eddi|zuHause> should probably make a way for both... 21:01:52 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly a "copy existing consist, and change engine" and "replace vehicle in all existing consists" are common use cases 21:02:34 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-3.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:07:09 <azaghal> How about allowing to create groups based on stations, names, type of wagon etc? 21:07:23 <azaghal> (filter for multiple categories) 21:09:11 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's probably one of the primary features. 21:13:57 *** saronpasu [~saronpasu@catv075-208.lan-do.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:17:41 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 21:23:46 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:23:51 *** KouDy [~KouDy@82.100.0.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:36:59 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 21:44:44 <andythenorth_> omg 21:44:49 <andythenorth_> not realistc 21:44:53 <andythenorth_> not at all 21:52:02 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has quit [Quit: Quit] 21:53:11 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:57:28 <lugo> yaay, good work with the biorefinery andythenorth_ :D 21:58:29 <andythenorth_> thanks :) 22:00:05 <dihedral> the nice thing about java: at least i know where all my memory is being consumed! 22:03:00 *** andythenorth_ [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth_] 22:05:30 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe83de00-38.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 22:24:51 *** avdg [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:25:56 <Eddi|zuHause> is that like "the nice thing about investing in lehman brothers: you know where all your money is being consumed"? 22:27:38 <dihedral> yes! 22:35:49 *** Giordano [724f377e@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 22:40:15 <nicfer> helllooo 22:48:03 *** davis [~b@p5B28BE5B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:52:05 *** GT [~GT@rt-scb-9f41.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 23:20:28 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 23:22:43 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:29:43 *** Yexo [~Yexo@62.140.137.113] has joined #openttd 23:31:53 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-67-91.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:48:06 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D956.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:59 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-3.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 23:51:03 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.29.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:57:43 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]