Log for #openttd on 4th November 2010:
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00:58:32  <xiong> I do not see how many tons there are to a crate of Farm Supplies in FIRS. Is this documented?
01:00:09  <Eddi|zuHause> typically, 1 ton = 1 item, but in some cases the GRF can change that
01:04:42  <Eddi|zuHause> (but you can't read this, so it is useless information)
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01:43:07  <noom> hullo
01:43:19  <noom> i have more questions :p
01:43:43  <noom> i'm having a lot of trouble keeping a lumber industry running
01:44:01  <noom> they yield such little wood, i'm finding most of it decays before my train can get back for another pickup
01:44:15  <noom> adding more trains doesnt help the situation as they just end up bogged down at the station
01:44:19  <Eddi|zuHause> use two trains.
01:44:24  <noom> :P
01:44:28  <noom> hasnt been helping me at all
01:44:46  <Eddi|zuHause> make sure you have _always_ a train waiting
01:44:53  <noom> hmmm
01:45:00  <Eddi|zuHause> then your rating (and with it the industry production) goes up
01:45:13  <noom> so just throw heaps of engines on the line ?
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01:45:23  <Eddi|zuHause> use "full load" orders
01:45:26  <noom> yeah
01:45:31  <noom> my problem there was the station filled up
01:45:33  <noom> closed my main line
01:45:44  <noom> so i added feeders, that helped a bt
01:45:51  <noom> but now the feeder trains have negative income :p
01:46:00  <Eddi|zuHause> use "transfer"
01:46:18  <noom> and *pop* the forest disapeared haha
01:46:23  <noom> i couldnt see that option on trains
01:46:32  <noom> assumed it was only for boats -> stations
01:46:39  <noom> i'll have another looky
01:46:47  <Eddi|zuHause> it is available for all vehicles
01:46:54  <noom> so really i just need to increase the volume of trains, make sure there's always at least one waiting
01:47:03  <noom> and i guess i need overflow control for the rare times it backs up
01:47:03  <Eddi|zuHause> exactly
01:47:08  <noom> or maybe just more stations ?
01:47:36  <Eddi|zuHause> you can get creative with depots ;)
01:47:46  <noom> yeah i'm getting very good at it :D
01:48:07  <noom> i have an un-interupted main line now, you can run express from one end of my track to the other without stopping, its great :D
01:48:12  <noom> i used uhm...hangon
01:48:47  <noom>
01:48:49  <noom> that design
01:48:54  <noom> for my busy stations
01:49:35  <noom> i dont really like tunnels though...they ruin your signal block
01:50:32  <noom> ok well thanks for your help mate
01:50:39  <noom> gonna go have another go at the lumber industry :p
01:52:00  <SmatZ> you can double tunnels
01:52:16  <noom> i'm a bit limited for space with that design i'm using though
01:52:25  <noom> i suppose i could split much earlier maybe
01:52:38  <noom> you mean to say, if the tunnels full, they just use the second one ?
01:53:05  <SmatZ> trains won't enter the red signal if they can use green one
01:53:11  <noom> yeah
01:53:24  <SmatZ> if the other path isn't much longer :)
01:53:44  <noom> i find my engines doing some really odd pathfinding lol
01:53:50  <SmatZ> :)
01:53:59  <noom> i think its more my lack of practice with signal lights than anything
01:54:08  <noom> but they do some amazing stuff to get around traffic haha
01:54:40  <noom> i was wondering, if i uploaded this scenario i'm working on somewhere, would someone look at it and tell me if i'm doing it right ? :p
01:56:34  <SmatZ> hard to say, most people are sleeping now :(
01:56:39  <noom> hee hee
01:56:44  <noom> almost midday here :p
01:56:45  <SmatZ> you can try to post it at :)
01:56:47  <SmatZ> hehe :)
01:59:14  <noom> i need to learn to make those terminus-ro-ro combos
01:59:22  <noom> where you can enter or leave any direction from any platform
01:59:45  <noom> i get stuck with the mini-bridges / tunnels you have to make to link everything
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02:01:19  <Eddi|zuHause> you don't have to make bridges
02:03:21  <Eddi|zuHause> damn, missed him
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02:40:21  <Pikka> isn't it just?
02:51:47  <Eddi|zuHause> it's just before 4AM.
03:03:50  <avdg> hmm
03:04:06  * avdg still thinks he didn't edit the wiki enough yet
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03:10:02  <Eddi|zuHause> could always provoke an edit war :p
03:10:27  <avdg> with 1 char each edit, right :D
03:10:41  <avdg> donno if I am that smart
03:10:55  <avdg> (to keep al these changes in my mind)
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04:59:11  <xiong> How can I find the correct length of a vehicle, specifically a rail wagon/car?
04:59:38  <xiong> Documentation seems a bit spotty on this. NARS vehicles are not all 1/2 tile long.
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07:33:27  <Terkhen> good morning
07:35:01  <xiong> Good morning! I didn't realize it was.
07:35:40  <xiong> I just had an engine break down, with 99% reliability and a full, badly needed load, immediately out of depot. :(
07:36:02  <Xaroth> sucks to be that train then :P
07:37:02  <xiong> Xaroth++
07:38:19  <xiong> I'm starting to regret about half of every decision I've made in this game. This is... complex. I've been playing extremely complex games for years (and bragging about it, too); but this may be the one that's bigger than I am. )
07:40:30  <xiong> I've been looking up other people's junctions. A full interchange, with 2 tracks entering from each of 4 directions, seems to take up about a 30-tile-square area. I get the feeling that most people don't play on small maps.
07:43:39  <xiong> Barrel platforms don't seem to represent chemicals.
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08:40:15  <norbert79> Morning guys
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08:45:35  <Terkhen> hi norbert79
08:45:46  <norbert79> Hi Terkhen
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09:25:10  <planetmaker> hello
09:34:58  <lugo> mornings
09:41:57  <norbert79> I wonder what might have caused the small explosion in the engine of the Quantas plane
09:42:16  <norbert79>
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09:47:33  <planetmaker> he. Just read that in the paper, too.
09:47:53  <planetmaker> But I guess there're people who're more keen on finding out than you and me - and then we'll know :-)
09:52:58  <planetmaker> hm, doesn't know about it yet
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10:07:17  <norbert79> yepp, checked that too
10:07:40  <norbert79> the event with the Heathrow 777 was also very interesting back in 2008
10:07:54  <norbert79> it turned out, that the fuel level got lower, because of the cold
10:08:02  <norbert79> and the fuel "shrunk"
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11:04:46  <fjb> Moin
11:05:24  <norbert79> fjb: moin
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12:54:02  <Belugas> hello
12:57:08  <peter1138> hi
12:58:04  <dih> is there by any chance a java developer around?
12:58:22  * peter1138 hides from the mention of java
12:58:27  <peter1138> evil language
12:58:39  <Belugas> java?
12:58:43  <dih> java!
12:58:44  <Belugas> nice coffee!!
12:58:50  <dih> grrr
12:58:51  <dih> ^^
12:58:53  <Belugas> nice island too...
12:59:07  <dih> sometimes, depending though, a nice programming language too
12:59:16  <Belugas> peter1138, i've added a chorus pedal to my list as well :)
12:59:25  <Belugas> BOSS CE-5
13:00:00  <Belugas> now... i'll have to be a very good husband and father if i want them both ^_^
13:00:09  <peter1138> hehe
13:00:20  <dih> lol :-)
13:00:33  <dih> you can do it, i am sure of that Belugas ^^
13:00:45  * Belugas is not so convinced of that...
13:04:08  <dih> :-(
13:04:57  * Belugas is sometimes a bad boy
13:05:05  <Belugas> but you already know that :)
13:05:24  <planetmaker> hey ho, Belugas you bad bad boy :-)
13:06:46  <Belugas> bad to the bone!
13:07:08  <planetmaker> back to the microphone!
13:07:10  * Belugas puts on his leather and studs belt
13:07:28  <Belugas> fits very well with my guitar strap!
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13:17:02  <planetmaker> hm, I really love it, if people in their first posting state that implementing <whatever> "is easy to implement".
13:17:20  <norbert79> planetmaker: Oooh, wait, just got the perfect gift-website for ya :D
13:17:35  <norbert79> planetmaker:
13:17:42  <planetmaker>
13:18:54  <planetmaker> Now, norbert79 , given that link I'm not sure what to expect... "We'll be back shortly"?
13:18:57  <Belugas> :)
13:19:14  <norbert79> planetmaker: Damn... I thought it's up :D
13:19:19  <Belugas> if he has been a lurker for so many times, he would propably already know how to do it ;)
13:19:30  <Belugas> or the answer to his question...
13:19:38  <planetmaker> :-P
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13:31:08  <Terkhen> it is even better when they state an illogical reason as for why they think it is easy to implement
13:31:49  <glx> it's always easy for non-dev
13:32:31  <norbert79> Well, I can give you one: We have the automated train importing tols busted, which allowed us on-the-fly of scanning and creating sprite images from already existing trains. Now there is a modul in htis tool, and thats one got corrupted... Sorry
13:32:37  <Terkhen> "since I'm not going to do this, it must be easy"
13:33:01  <glx> nice reason :)
13:33:27  <glx> and a very good reason for us to just discard it
13:33:37  <norbert79> Replace the word 'train' with 'truck' or anything else, works all the time :)
13:33:44  <planetmaker> that's true from a certain perspective: it's always easy (for me), if other people do the work _I_ want to see done ;-)
13:34:13  <peter1138> heh
13:34:33  <planetmaker> the one variable often overlooked is: that attitude often causes a reverse motion :-P
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13:38:24  <Belugas> note that the guy mentionned to add maglevs ON THAT set, not in Open itself
13:38:34  <Belugas> i just rewrote his port
13:38:40  <Belugas> pst
13:38:41  <Belugas> post
13:38:47  <Belugas> JAVA!!!!
13:39:13  <planetmaker> yes. And we all know that writing a newgrf with several trains is a task for one idle hour at most >:-D
13:40:24  <glx> if there are only action A it can be done in one hour
13:40:39  <planetmaker> including drawing? :-P
13:42:00  <planetmaker> hm... which actually gives me an idea for OpenGFX+Trains: activate railtype availability rail / mono / mglv via parameter...
13:42:33  <norbert79> planetmaker: Give it two for full-listing of all trains, including graphics
13:44:27  <norbert79> Everyone FYI:
13:44:40  <norbert79> I know it's a bit older, but still would be interesting for some
13:49:28  <planetmaker> hm, 16bit RAW support is interesting
13:50:22  <SmatZ> :)
13:52:46  <planetmaker> it has been so far the show-stopper for gimp becoming usable for photo editing
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13:58:52  <norbert79> planetmaker: UFRaw
13:58:56  <norbert79> planetmaker: Works like charm
13:59:06  <norbert79> I know, it's a plugin only, but works!
14:02:16  <Belugas> raw?
14:02:18  <Belugas> photo?
14:02:19  <Belugas> mmh??
14:02:50  <norbert79> Belugas: I was just mentioning planetmaker the UFRaw plugin for GIMP for handling RAW formats all sort
14:03:07  <norbert79> And there is Raw Therapee also open sourced by now
14:03:10  <norbert79> and freely available
14:03:52  <Belugas> ho..
14:03:59  * Belugas will give it a try then :)
14:04:00  <norbert79> Ooh, UFRaw is available for all sort of OS-es too
14:04:02  <norbert79> wohoo
14:04:06  <norbert79>
14:04:24  <norbert79> works like charm
14:04:32  <norbert79> tested using test-raw-s
14:05:23  <norbert79>
14:06:04  <norbert79> There are always two plugins which I always install in my GIMP installs: Seperate plugin for CYMK support and UFRaw
14:06:42  <norbert79> (and under CYMK support I mean CYMK TIFF handling)
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14:33:22  <Wolf01> hello
14:34:16  <norbert79> Hello Wolf01
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15:05:16  <Terkhen> hmmm... is there anyone who still uses the original map generator?
15:06:22  <Eddi|zuHause> a handful of extreme purists
15:07:25  <Terkhen> I guess they don't use the custom water level option either
15:08:34  <SmatZ> why? is the map full of water?
15:08:57  <Terkhen> worse, the map generation never ends
15:09:23  <Terkhen> I forgot that original map generation existed while coding that
15:09:27  <SmatZ> :)
15:12:28  <planetmaker> :-P
15:12:36  <planetmaker> but yes, people still use that
15:19:00  <Terkhen> the percentages don't make much sense with the original map generator... I'm thinking about just scaling between the values assigned to very low and high settings
15:20:05  <Yexo> Terkhen: non-water map borders also broke the original map generator, the problem wasn't noticed until 0.7.0-beta1 came out
15:20:10  <Yexo> so yes, some people use it, but not many
15:21:18  <Belugas> Sirkoz
15:21:30  * Belugas is bitchy
15:21:54  <Terkhen> and I only noticed this because I wanted to do a very rough map for testing ships
15:23:00  <Terkhen> hmmm... or I can just disable that value from the dropdown and set it to another thing if the map generator is set to original
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15:26:06  <planetmaker> Wait for January... you'll get heaps of reports then ;-)
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16:02:29  <norbert79> planetmaker: is up and running by now ;-)
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17:42:25  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belugas * r21079 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: replace magic numbers with already defined constant ("inspired" by Hirundo's work)
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17:46:39  <dih> uh - what i see there Belugas
17:46:58  <dih> i love the use of the workd 'inspired' :-D
17:47:01  <Belugas> hem.... your screen?
17:48:45  <Ammler> Belugas: was that your yearly commit? ;-)
17:49:51  <Belugas> yeah, once a year, just to keep a reason to be around ;)
17:50:22  <Ammler> :-)
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17:51:05  * Hirundo now has a good reason to write "inspiring" on his resume ;)
17:51:18  <planetmaker> :-P
17:51:21  <planetmaker> hello Alberth
17:51:37  <Alberth> moin
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17:53:06  <Belugas> :)
17:58:32  <Alberth> nice work Hirundo, we don't want to loose Belugas
17:59:16  <Belugas> lol
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18:34:42  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21080 /trunk/src/ (genworld_gui.cpp landscape.cpp settings.cpp): -Fix: Do not allow to use a custom water level with the original map generator.
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18:45:11  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21081 /trunk/src/lang/ukrainian.txt:
18:45:12  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:12  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 4 changes by Madvin
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18:54:13  <AveiMil> Hello, just downloaded OpenTTD and I have some questions I couldnt find answered. For one I just started a new game, selected Medium difficulty first and it said 4 competitors will be added. Started a new game, but only my company is listed under the company button.
18:54:27  <AveiMil> How do I add the AI's to the game?
18:56:56  <SmatZ> AveiMil: competitors start after a timeout
18:57:03  <SmatZ> if you want to start an AI just now,
18:57:03  <planetmaker> you need to download some AIs. Use the content download for that
18:57:12  <SmatZ> open a console by ~ and type start_ai
18:57:35  <planetmaker> or by "^" or ` or ... ;-)
18:57:39  <AveiMil> so they come along after a few years?
18:57:48  <planetmaker> usually yes. If you have AIs installed
18:57:57  <planetmaker> New installs of OpenTTD come without AIs.
18:57:59  <AveiMil> there's no default AI?
18:58:02  <planetmaker> No
18:58:15  <planetmaker> Or rather a dummy one which won't do much
18:59:25  <AveiMil> Which AI is recommended?
18:59:29  <AveiMil> There's so many.
19:00:08  <Alberth> they are all different. try a few, and keep what you like
19:00:34  <AveiMil> What do you like?
19:01:17  <Belugas> ice cream and coffee, thanks :)
19:01:49  <Alberth> SimpleAI PathZilla, and icecream and coffee
19:01:57  <Alberth> although I currently have tea
19:02:39  <Alberth> but I rarely play with AIs, so don't trust that choice too much :)
19:03:24  <Alberth> if you click them at the content download you get a short description
19:03:27  <AveiMil> hehe ok :)
19:03:53  <AveiMil> Another thing that bothered me a little. I started a new game, and customized my company info.
19:03:55  <Alberth> also, there is a NoAI forum discussing the AIs
19:04:00  <AveiMil> But when i start a new game, that's all gone agian.
19:04:17  <AveiMil> Any way to save that info?
19:04:55  <Alberth> except for a few things, anything you set from within a game is for that game only
19:05:32  <Alberth> so to survive it, you'd have to set it from the main menu. However, I don't seem to know a way to set it :(
19:05:47  <AveiMil> Bummer.
19:06:38  <AveiMil> Does the HQ serve any practical purpose?
19:06:42  <Terkhen> the only thing you can save from the company info is the manager face
19:06:58  <Terkhen> the HQ produces some passengers IIRC
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19:33:42  <AveiMil> Do you always start with a Coal transport?
19:34:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21082 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix (r21080): Compilation error.
19:36:04  <frosch123> no, farms are also fine, because thay have "lots" of stuff
19:39:19  <AveiMil> Do you pay maintenance for the railway tracks?
19:40:03  <Eddi|zuHause> maintenance for rail was discussed, but not implemented
19:42:24  <AveiMil> Does it matter how many blue squares are "touching" a coal mine? I have two coal mines fairly close, and if I build a long train station 2 squares will touch each coal mine. Is that equally effective as having all the squares touch the coal mine? (Blue squares as in coverage zone)
19:43:02  <Eddi|zuHause> one square is enough
19:43:18  <AveiMil> Thank you
19:44:06  <Eddi|zuHause> be aware of oil refineries, there it does matter ;)
19:45:38  <AveiMil> Oh? the more squares the better?
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19:46:19  <Eddi|zuHause> not entirely. but you'll figure that out on your own.
19:47:20  <AveiMil> Ok.
19:47:35  <AveiMil> Man all the signal types are a bit overwhelming now as a newbie.
19:48:14  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belugas * r21083 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Limit the number of exceptions in the refittable cargo list to 7 (Eddi)
19:48:28  <Belugas>, i'm good for at least 2 years
19:49:16  <Eddi|zuHause> ;)
19:49:20  <frosch123> you can add a timespan to dorpsgek kban command
19:49:24  <frosch123> :p
19:49:47  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 60*60*365*2+1
19:49:47  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 2628001
19:49:52  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 60*60*(365*2+1)
19:49:53  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 2631600
19:50:05  <frosch123> 60 hours a day?
19:50:14  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 60*60*(365*2+1)*24
19:50:14  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 63158400
19:50:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i knew i missed something
19:50:46  <Eddi|zuHause> @help kban
19:50:46  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: (kban [<channel>] [--{exact,nick,user,host}] <nick> [<seconds>] [<reason>]) -- If you have the #channel,op capability, this will kickban <nick> for as many seconds as you specify, or else (if you specify 0 seconds or don't specify a number of seconds) it will ban the person indefinitely. --exact bans only the exact hostmask; --nick bans just the nick; --user bans just the user, and --host bans just the (1 more message)
19:50:56  <Eddi|zuHause> it's in seconds
19:52:22  <planetmaker> wooohooo. Belugas is in a commit-spree
19:54:01  <Belugas> stuff that i drag for like 2 weeks :)
19:54:12  <Belugas> it just happens that today is a bit quieter
19:54:19  <Belugas> quieter?
19:54:24  <Belugas> more quite?
19:54:32  <Belugas> less buzy?
19:54:34  <planetmaker> more quiet ;-)
19:54:43  <Eddi|zuHause> more quiet probably ;)
19:54:59  * Belugas removes quieter from his dico
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19:57:04  <andythenorth_> what's wrong with quieitieerr?
19:59:05  <frosch123> quieteer sounds militaristic
19:59:33  <Belugas> quiter
19:59:48  <planetmaker> queerer?
20:01:11  * Alberth proposes qu*er  :p
20:01:22  <andythenorth_> quieter will do
20:02:16  <Belugas> mmh... i've got one...
20:02:19  <Belugas> beeeeer
20:02:45  <Eddi|zuHause> you're an hour early :p
20:03:05  <Alberth> not to mention a whole day?
20:10:01  <AveiMil> How long did it take for you guys to understand the signal system?
20:10:24  <Eddi|zuHause> that's a bad question
20:10:32  <Eddi|zuHause> we watched the signal system grow up
20:10:50  <AveiMil> ah
20:10:56  <AveiMil> this is confusing as hell :D
20:11:04  <Eddi|zuHause> it is not.
20:11:11  <Eddi|zuHause> the only signals you need are path signals
20:11:19  <Eddi|zuHause> the rightmost two signal types
20:11:52  <AveiMil> ah, so the other types are remnants of the past?
20:12:33  <Eddi|zuHause> well, they have a few niche uses
20:12:47  <Eddi|zuHause> but basically, yes. they are remnants from the past
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20:14:21  <AveiMil> How do I delete signs?
20:14:37  <frosch123> click on them, and press delete?
20:14:58  <frosch123> (just a guess, never use signs)
20:15:22  <planetmaker> ctrl+click does the trick, too
20:15:27  <Eddi|zuHause> if you mean signals, use the 'r' key
20:15:28  <AveiMil> Ctrl click dosent seem to work.
20:15:46  <planetmaker> signals != signs
20:15:48  <Eddi|zuHause> signs are little pieces of text. do not confuse the two
20:16:01  <AveiMil> Whops, sorry.
20:16:06  <AveiMil> r, great, thanks.
20:18:37  <AveiMil> hmm, now I seem to be getting a message when trying to place Signals agian, "can't convert signals here", appears no matter where on the track I click.
20:19:00  <AveiMil> nvm
20:19:01  <Eddi|zuHause> unclick the "convert" button in the signal gui
20:19:55  <AveiMil> yeah silly me
20:20:40  <Alberth> frosch123: change the text to the empty string, actually
20:21:29  <frosch123> there is also a delete button (checked in the mean time)
20:27:20  <AveiMil> This is so amazing. Devs on this have done a wonderful job.
20:29:48  <AveiMil> Made my first signal railway system, yay. It wasent' so hard with the path signals.
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20:54:35  <AveiMil> This game requires a lot of APM, dosen't it?
20:54:59  <frosch123> not exactly
20:55:46  <frosch123> otoh, some patch it for ultra-slow mode to keep up with their APH
20:55:56  <frosch123> or so :p
20:57:00  <Eddi|zuHause> err... what?
20:57:03  <AveiMil> otoh?
20:57:35  <AveiMil> APM = Actions Per Minute :)
20:57:54  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: a unit from rts games
20:58:17  <Eddi|zuHause> 2 in 3 actions are pressing the F1 key ;)
20:58:42  <AveiMil> that's pause eh, can you do that in MP?
20:58:50  <Eddi|zuHause> likely not ;)
20:58:53  <frosch123> the server can
20:59:00  <frosch123> but i doubt anyone will compete :p
20:59:02  <AveiMil> So it's kind of like cheating when you do it in SP :)
20:59:20  <Eddi|zuHause> no, you also have the "build while paused" cheat ;)
20:59:49  <AveiMil> a cheat code?
21:00:34  <Eddi|zuHause> finding the cheats is left as an easy exercise for the reader
21:00:39  <AveiMil> I've built one railway system with 2 trains, and basically not done anything else the last 4 years, but still I*m #2 on the company league table, lol.
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21:00:47  <AveiMil> Somehow I think these AI's aren't too strong
21:01:04  <AveiMil> I don't want cheat codes anyway :)
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21:02:09  <Chris_Booth_> evenign all
21:02:35  <AveiMil> hello
21:03:13  <AveiMil> On the company screen it says (Company 1) behind my company name, can that be removed? Also, my company worth is ony £1, does that update?
21:04:47  <Belugas> change the company name. yes it does update
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21:05:55  <AveiMil> The company name does not have (Company 1) in the text box.
21:07:03  <Eddi|zuHause> no, that can't be removed
21:07:40  <Eddi|zuHause> afair it used to say "(Player n)" for human companies, and nothing for AI companies
21:08:10  <Belugas> oh... that...
21:08:16  <AveiMil> Ok, what affects the company value? Mine is static at 1£
21:08:21  <AveiMil> The other companies update.
21:08:32  <Belugas> 'cause they make money?
21:08:41  <Eddi|zuHause> AveiMil: assets plus bank balance minus bank loan
21:08:53  <AveiMil> lol ok
21:09:04  <AveiMil> are railway tracks assetts?
21:09:10  <Eddi|zuHause> probably not
21:09:33  <Eddi|zuHause> but vehicles are
21:09:44  <AveiMil> ok, thanks :)
21:09:53  <AveiMil> (I'm probably gonna ask a lot more stupid questions=
21:09:55  <AveiMil> )
21:10:10  <Belugas> can i ask a stupid one too?
21:10:27  <Belugas> are you aware there's a wiki on the game?
21:10:43  <AveiMil> yeah, I'm reading that as I go
21:10:50  <Belugas> granted it's not the best ever documentation around, but you might find some incredible infos :)
21:10:55  <Belugas> oh :) ok!
21:10:56  <AveiMil> but find it hard to find answers to some of these small detail questions though.
21:11:00  <Belugas> happry reading then
21:12:13  <AveiMil> The signal documentation was fairly good. But it should perhaps highlight that really you should only worry about the Path signals as a beginner.
21:13:19  <AveiMil> Time to read about subsidy
21:15:58  <AveiMil> I'm so glad I thought of this game and decided to google Transport Tycoon, I'm delighted OpenTTD exists.
21:16:53  <Alberth> You are aware of the fact that it is a wiki?
21:18:43  <AveiMil> ?
21:19:06  <Alberth> (10:12:57 PM) AveiMil: The signal documentation was fairly good. But it should perhaps highlight that really you should only worry about the Path signals as a beginner.  <-- you can make that change
21:20:25  <AveiMil> good point
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21:25:53  <AveiMil> I'm a bit confused on prototype viechles, when they are offered, are they offered for free? Or do I still have to purchase them for the regular amount?
21:26:49  <AveiMil> and when the final release is out, will mine be automatically udpated or will I still be huffing and puffing in the old prototypes until I update manually?
21:26:49  <Alberth> you have to buy them
21:26:58  <Ammler> Rubidium: how do I see, if the openttd is compiled without icu?
21:27:08  <Ammler> I tried that but it seems not working
21:27:15  <Rubidium> ldd?
21:27:39  <Wolf01> any dev interested on a OTTDcon in Venice on Sep 2011?
21:27:43  <Alberth> AveiMil: the only change is that you can use the offered vehicles earlier than your competitors (if you have them :) )
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21:28:05  <AveiMil> Hmm, ok, but the Wiki says "Vehicles are occasionally offered to your company as an exclusive prototype; these prototype versions will have lower reliability than the final release a year later. "
21:28:09  <Ammler> yes, icu is out but the issue stays
21:28:22  <AveiMil> so is the reliabilty of the train is improved automatically after that year?
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21:29:04  <Alberth> yes, it changes just like normally, even during that first year
21:29:33  <Rubidium> Ammler: oh, then I solved the issue with printing those text direction characters without ICU differently
21:29:35  <AveiMil> ok thanks
21:30:48  <Ammler> --with-icu="0" in the config.cache
21:30:55  <Ammler> and no icu in ldd
21:31:42  <Rubidium> as I said, then I've fixed the "without ICU" problem differently
21:32:40  <Qantourisc> is it "safe" to convert normal rail to electric rail ?
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21:33:18  <Ammler> just don't touch the tracks, if you install the wire
21:33:21  <Rubidium> even then, why does this break the chat bridge? Seems that the bridge is quite fragile in this case
21:33:32  <Qantourisc> Ammler: using the convert tool
21:33:42  <Ammler> we aren't able to remove the control char
21:33:51  <Ammler> (we=dih)
21:34:58  <Rubidium> sounds like a lame programming language if that isn't supported
21:35:05  <Ammler> yep, it is
21:35:33  <Ammler> but it is still the only wrapper avaialable :-)
21:35:49  <AveiMil> How does the goods transport distance factor in how much money (income) you get from x tons of goods?
21:36:14  <AveiMil>
21:36:14  <AveiMil> ah
21:36:15  <AveiMil> :D
21:36:25  <frosch123> Wolf01: r25000 ?
21:36:29  <Ammler> reverting your fix works but some don't like me patching the servers ;-)
21:36:39  <Wolf01> it might be
21:36:59  <frosch123> anything special about venice in september?
21:38:28  <Wolf01> uhm... the weather
21:38:57  <Rubidium> Ammler: <- kinda implies that you should be able filter it out in tcl
21:41:24  <__ln__> Wolf01: cake?
21:41:34  <Wolf01> always
21:42:02  <dih> hehe
21:42:19  <Rubidium> frosch123: maybe the milkshake machines of McDonalds work in september?
21:42:21  <dih> the char is noted i.e. when getting the byte or string lenght
21:42:35  <dih> and the first 'readable' char is then at position 1
21:43:00  <Ammler> is that now always the case?
21:43:03  <dih> however it seems impossible to address that very one char
21:43:21  <dih> like i said, you could replace the == 0 with == 1 ^^
21:43:36  <Ammler> yeah, that worked partially only
21:43:54  <Rubidium> just string replace it out
21:44:01  <dih> yes, because of the split
21:44:10  <dih> Rubidium, tried ^^
21:44:16  <dih> i cannot address it
21:44:44  <dih> e.g. say we read "[All] foobar: hi"
21:45:02  <Qantourisc> DANG
21:45:03  <dih> [ is found at position 1, however reading position 0 from the string return [
21:45:10  <Qantourisc> replaceing with electric trains is costly !
21:45:24  <dih> tcl really sucks in that case
21:45:30  <Rubidium> dih: put sed in between or something?
21:45:43  <dih> a system call? ... hmmm
21:45:55  <dih> or just let ap+ die and use a better language ^^
21:45:59  <dih> and a better interface
21:46:02  <Rubidium> no, a pipe
21:46:08  <Ammler> next year :-P
21:46:09  <dih> (yes, i consider java > tcl)
21:46:19  <planetmaker> dih: yes. But it's no immediate solution
21:46:48  <Ammler> Rubidium: maybe there is a better patch then reverting the whole fix?
21:46:57  <planetmaker> and you have to conceede, that the joan and grapes cannot yet completely replace ap+
21:47:05  <Rubidium> i.e. instead of starting "openttd" start "openttd | sed s/...//"
21:47:19  <dih> planetmaker, of course it cannot replace ap+ just yet
21:47:30  <planetmaker> but we run the servers just yet ;-)
21:47:44  <xiong> Is there any documentation for NARS rail vehicle length? They are not all 1/2 tile.
21:48:04  <Ammler> xiong: what does the readme say?
21:48:37  <dih> planetmaker, i am sure there is something you can do for ap+ to keep running
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21:48:54  <dih> it still works fine on the current stable
21:49:00  <dih> and you run a patched nightly anyway
21:49:08  <Ammler> nah, it won't on 1.0.5
21:49:28  <Ammler> the fix is backported
21:49:30  <dih> and you can try the pipe idea
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21:50:08  <Rubidium> Ammler: revert the bits that add the actual characters, but then I *won't* guarantee the bug is fixed for your clients
21:50:14  <xiong> Ammler, Looked through it but maybe I missed something.
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21:51:05  <dih> or instead of running the pipe from the side of ap+, wrap the call to openttd in a shell script which removes the nasty char
21:51:17  <dih> that way you will avoid tcl ever seeing that nasty char
21:51:24  <dih> and thus avoid tcl mucking up (yet again)
21:51:30  <Ammler> how do I do that?
21:51:37  <Rubidium> didn't I suggest that like 5 minutes ago?
21:51:47  <Ammler> what is ...?
21:51:59  <dih> Rubidium, if the pipe is done inside tcl, it mike break that char again
21:52:02  <Ammler> or how do I find that?
21:52:06  <dih> hence the shell script outside of tcl
21:52:17  <xiong> Yah, Ammler; no readme in the tarball.
21:52:23  <Rubidium> if it's done inside tcl it is not *between* openttd and tcl
21:52:34  <planetmaker> xiong: and google is broken and offline, too, I assume
21:52:34  <Ammler> xiong: there is a pikkawiki or something
21:53:02  <dih> Rubidium, i mean, tcl starts ./openttd, even if tcl starts ./openttd | sed ...
21:53:29  <dih> chances are that it could muck up the char, if tcl starts ./, it does not see that char
21:53:33  <AveiMil> What is the varierty distribution game option?
21:53:35  <xiong> planetmaker, I have googled hard. Ammler, there is indeed a pikkawiki; it has few pages, apparently, and although engines are discussed in detail, even those do not have lengths listed.
21:53:50  <Eddi|zuHause> AveiMil: it makes some parts of the map flat and other parts hilly
21:53:54  <Ammler> xiong: then ask in the forums thread
21:54:02  <dih> why would anybody google 'hard' :-P
21:54:06  <AveiMil> ty
21:54:21  <xiong> dih, Because googling easy didn't turn up the info.
21:54:24  <Eddi|zuHause> dih: image search with filter off?
21:54:42  <dih> Eddi|zuHause, that was the thought that kinda discusted me
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21:54:46  <xiong> I followed all sorts of links into bitchy threads that were only tangentially related. No dope found.
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21:56:19  <xiong> Ammler, I'll try that, if I can figure out which is the "real" NARS thread, more or less.
21:57:43  <Ammler> it should be quite on top
21:57:47  <Rubidium> Wolf01: what are your plans with such a conference?
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21:59:25  <Wolf01> I don't have any plan but partecipate, other people asked me if I could ask if somebody of you may be interested on it
21:59:40  <xiong> Y'know, guys, just for the record: I have roughly a hundred browser tabs open to one TTD page or another. There's no call for suggesting I don't look. I may not know where to look and even if I do, I may not find.
22:00:15  <dih> Wolf01, someone is organizing a ottd conf?
22:00:22  <Wolf01> yes
22:00:26  <dih> someone != you?
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22:00:35  <frosch123> Wolf01: you mean, it is already settled, and they want some star guests?
22:00:44  <dih> this is amuzing
22:00:54  <dih> amusing even
22:00:56  <xiong> I have so many pages open that Chrome is eating almost as much CPU as openttd itself.
22:01:52  <Wolf01> they want to replace the debian conference with an open source game conference
22:02:06  <Wolf01> and they seem to have chose ottd
22:02:19  <dih> HAHA
22:02:26  <planetmaker> woot?
22:02:35  <planetmaker> it's not April 1st ;-)
22:02:47  <dih> Wolf01, get the devs 'invited'
22:02:58  <dih> have one or 2 of them hold talks :-D
22:03:33  <Eddi|zuHause> pay them their trip ;)
22:03:39  <Rubidium> there wasn't even a Venice bid for DebConf11
22:03:54  <Wolf01> just to talk about management of an open source game, the relation with the community...
22:04:25  <Wolf01> ehm, local conferences, not international ones :P
22:05:15  <Eddi|zuHause> good luck finding ottd devs local to venice :p
22:05:37  <dih> Rubidium, you need a PR dev :-P
22:05:45  * planetmaker hides
22:06:06  <frosch123> celestar might be nearest#+
22:06:17  <frosch123> bah, hitting three keys :s
22:06:42  <dih> how do you interact with the community - may i pick the nicks to be considered ? :-P
22:07:02  <Wolf01> ...and the con will end in a mega openttd lan party, cakes will be present
22:07:03  <Rubidium> promote Wolf01 as dev for a day :)
22:07:08  <Wolf01> ahahahahaha
22:07:46  <Rubidium> maybe sponsor Belugas to come over? Probably needs two extra tickets though
22:07:59  <frosch123> :p
22:08:03  <Wolf01> I'm already pressing him :P
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22:09:41  <Rubidium> well, I've "almost" been in Venice this summer
22:10:05  <frosch123> was the french railway _that_ bad? :p
22:10:42  <Rubidium> no, the alternative was some night train to Venice IIRC
22:11:13  <Rubidium> and then I had to change *very* early (04:00-ish) in the morning, after entering the train quite late (12:00-ish)
22:11:49  <Rubidium> so, closest I can this summer was Genova
22:11:49  <avdg> not my first time to stand up that early to catch a train :)
22:11:59  <avdg> *to me
22:12:15  <avdg> uh whatever
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22:13:38  <Rubidium> avdg: but with a 24+ hour train ride I rather have a period where I can properly sleep
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22:14:00  <avdg> I don't want to sleep on a train
22:14:11  <avdg> I didn't it too on an aircraft
22:14:23  <avdg> with a flight around 13 houres
22:15:02  <Rubidium> why wouldn't you want to sleep on a train if it takes more than 24 hours?
22:15:29  <Rubidium> black country side becomes boring pretty quickly
22:15:34  <avdg> because I can :p
22:17:29  <Eddi|zuHause> you can book sleeping cabins
22:18:08  <Eddi|zuHause> we did that when i was a child. overnight train to the sea
22:18:26  <Eddi|zuHause> starts at midnight, arrives around 6-ish
22:18:57  <Eddi|zuHause> from Leipzig to Binz (RÃŒgen)
22:19:03  <Rubidium> Luxembough-Nice starts around 20:00, arrives around 09:00 (if on schedule)
22:19:25  <Rubidium> it would actually go to Ventimiglia if Monaco wasn't such a mess
22:19:30  <Eddi|zuHause> don't know if these train connections still exist
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22:25:36  <Eddi|zuHause> apparently train connection to venice is quite good. ~12:30
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22:27:49  <Eddi|zuHause> Halle->Naumburg (local train) (0:40), Naumburg->MÃŒnchen (ICE) (4:20), MÃŒnchen->Venezia (EC) (6:40), with about 45min time in MÃŒnchen
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22:28:56  <Terkhen> good night
22:29:10  <avdg> gn
22:29:47  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: can't find a Munchen-Venice taking less than 7:09
22:30:19  <Rubidium> and there's a change of trains in Verona
22:30:33  <Eddi|zuHause> or overnight, 14:40: Halle->MÃŒnchen (ICE) (4:45), MÃŒnchen->Venezia (CNL) (7:40)
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22:32:03  <Eddi|zuHause> MÃŒnchen Hbf    Fr, 02.09.11    ab    11:31        EC 87   Eurocity Bordrestaurant
22:32:05  <Eddi|zuHause>    Venezia Santa Lucia    Fr, 02.09.11    an    18:10
22:32:40  <Eddi|zuHause> or: MÌnchen Hbf    Fr, 02.09.11    ab    21:02        CNL 363   City Night Line Reservierungspflicht, Fahrradmitnahme reservierungspflichtig, Fahrradmitnahme begrenzt möglich, in Sitzw. nur 2.Kl., Schlafwagen, Liegewagen, Imbiss und GetrÀnke beim Schlaf-/Liegewagenbetreuer erhÀltlich, City Night Line
22:32:41  <Eddi|zuHause>    Venezia Santa Lucia    Sa, 03.09.11    an    06:38
22:32:46  <Rubidium> oh, you're looking almost a year in the future
22:32:57  * Rubidium was looking at tomorrow
22:32:57  <Eddi|zuHause> he said sep 2011 ;)
22:33:33  <Rubidium> problem is that many trains aren't certain/known until 2-3 months before it's going to run
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22:35:46  <Eddi|zuHause> tomorrow, there's a connection: Halle->Naumburg->MÃŒnchen->Villach->Venezia (14:30)
22:36:14  <Rubidium> it'd be like 17:30 for me with basically two choices: arrive at 06:30 or arrive at 14:30
22:36:16  <Eddi|zuHause> and the one i gave earlier is still valid
22:37:20  <Rubidium> and that "route" isn't available for tomorrow, just one that's 2 hours shorter (and on a single day)
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22:38:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't imagine anything useful to do in Villach between 3:51 and 4:45
22:39:04  <Eddi|zuHause> but start would be 18:00 and arrival 8:34
22:39:46  <Eddi|zuHause> and it can't give me a price
22:41:28  <Wolf01> what about the aircraft? the conference will be next the airport
22:42:16  <planetmaker> eindhoven - pisa is available for about 50€
22:42:27  *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:42:32  <planetmaker> but pisa is not venice ;-)
22:42:34  <Wolf01> pisa is on the other side of Italy
22:43:19  <Eddi|zuHause> LEJ-VCE seems to be 130 to 160€
22:44:03  <Eddi|zuHause> but you neve know if that is really the full price, or if they add taxes etc. later on
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22:44:55  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and they make you switch in FRA
22:47:59  <Eddi|zuHause> oh... and when you actually search for the flights, they get like 50% more expensive
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22:55:18  <__ln__> how do i do something to each element of a list in python?  there must be a simple way.
22:55:26  <Eddi|zuHause> map
22:55:44  <Eddi|zuHause> map(lambda:, list)
22:55:46  <Eddi|zuHause> or so
22:56:38  <__ln__> thanks
22:58:11  <glx> <@Rubidium> problem is that many trains aren't certain/known until 2-3 months before it's going to run <-- like lunea corail ;)
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23:01:35  <Eddi|zuHause> it probably differs from country to country. e.g. in germany, it is known one year in advance on which platform the train will go, while in france, the platform is decided 20 minutes before the train will go [at least on big stations]
23:02:27  <Xaroth> in holland they can decide all they want, but the trains won't be there on time anyhow.
23:03:04  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: my reference was about the Luxembough-Nice train :)
23:03:24  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know that one
23:03:48  <glx> and IIRC it was less than 2-3 months before the start date
23:04:37  <glx> I searched the schedules for Rubidium ;)
23:07:37  <glx> not easy to find as they are not TGV
23:07:50  <glx> like everything that's not TGV indeed :)
23:08:54  <Eddi|zuHause> SNCF doesn't list non-SNCF trains?
23:09:17  <glx> search engine is not their best stuff :)
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23:33:20  <Wolf01> 'nighty night
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