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00:09:53 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:11:13 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-170-131.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:16:08 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 00:16:11 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ 00:31:28 *** avdg [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:37:57 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:40:45 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF867B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:40:57 *** Chrill [Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 00:48:07 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 00:49:19 <Wolf01> 'night 00:49:23 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host71-15-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:56:40 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.104.150] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 00:59:39 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f549c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:14 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:12:04 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd 01:22:17 *** Chrill [Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [] 01:30:37 <xiong> Well, this is strange. I wanted to replace the engine on a train -- just one train -- without disturbing its orders. But trains seem to be numbered according to the engine; move the engine and the number moves with it. 01:31:32 <xiong> So, I added the new engine to the old train (MU); then, I took away the old engine. For this to work, I had to shuffle the engines around; otherwise, the old engine took the train number with it anyway. 01:32:22 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 01:33:40 <xiong> This train was originally part of a group of trains, with shared orders. The jiggery-pokery somehow got the orders cleared and unshared. But that's not the curious thing. 01:35:56 <xiong> The group originally had 4 trains and then, after this exchange, only 3 -- although I could still see all 4 clearly in the list. So, I took the trains out, one by one. Now the group is empty and contains 65,535 trains. Please don't tell me why 65,535; I know why 65,535. I don't know why not 0. 01:43:49 *** Tennel [~Tennel@88.150.10.194] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 01:57:40 *** enr1x [~kiike@171.224.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 01:58:13 <Eddi|zuHause> someone tell him that it's a real bug and he should probably report it. 01:58:50 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:59:45 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has joined #openttd 02:16:49 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:19:17 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:a154:beb:75dd:ab9f] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:24:43 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:27:37 *** enr1x [~kiike@171.224.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:12:41 *** saronpasu [~saronpasu@catv075-208.lan-do.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:18:45 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: more listen, more understand, more know] 03:31:01 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@225.80-202-65.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 03:31:31 <xiong> Ahhh! I finally found autoreplace for wagons. You hear that Qantourisc? 03:33:09 <xiong> If I could *see* stuff better, I wouldn't have missed it. Look in the lower-left where it says "Replacing Engines". Click. 03:51:10 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:15:36 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.47.140] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:22:57 <xiong> Now there's an interesting little oops. If you autoreplace a full rail car, the new car goes out of depot full, also. Curiously, the load is shifted to completely fill the train from the head end, leaving the newer, larger capacity cars toward the rear, empty. 04:23:16 <xiong> Maybe not oops; I should say merely, curiosity. 04:25:50 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@225.80-202-65.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630]] 04:26:27 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:29:01 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2F8F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:29:45 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-51-92.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:31:58 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-24-143.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 04:32:01 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 04:34:22 *** Sionide- [sionide@cornflakes.imen.org.uk] has joined #openttd 04:34:22 *** Sionide [sionide@cornflakes.imen.org.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:35:21 *** Sionide- is now known as Sionide 04:38:23 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 05:03:21 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8cd50.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:08:18 *** Ammler [~ammler@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:08:41 *** Ammler [~ammler@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 05:49:57 *** Zen0x [~Zen0x@cm-84.211.233.232.getinternet.no] has joined #openttd 05:55:32 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77F38.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:55:48 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73C2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:58:03 *** Zen0x [~Zen0x@cm-84.211.233.232.getinternet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:10:31 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:10:57 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:11:56 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-67-91.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:38:57 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73C2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:39:32 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73C2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:44:24 *** andythenorth_ [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:45:01 *** andythenorth_ [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 06:55:38 <Qantourisc> xiong: in windows magnifier in linux kmag 06:57:54 <xiong> Running Ubuntu; using GNOME. Don't care for a lot of the way KDE does stuff, even though sometimes I run kstuff anyway, because it's what I've got. I'm using Virtual Magnifying Glass, which works well enough. My feeling is, if you need to pull out such a tool, you should be trying to fix something else. 06:58:07 <Qantourisc> the gnome-mag 06:58:14 <Qantourisc> but when running it from cli it's clumsy 06:58:24 <xiong> I saw somewhere that it might be possible to change fonts, maybe even font size. 06:58:36 <xiong> Meh. 06:59:31 <xiong> My real issue with visibility isn't about most of the features; they work well enough, between squinting, glass, and just knowing what they look like generally. 07:00:49 <xiong> There are some real bad choices, though. I see two engines; they are different models but look alike. Under the glass, I have detected what seems to be a difference between them of about 7 pixels -- 4 on one, 3 on the other, in different places. All black. 07:02:32 <xiong> Right now, I'm not worried about the UI. I've overcome various limitations and learned a lot. Now, I find I'm hamstrung by my own poor choices. 07:03:40 <xiong> I've been playing a 256-tile square map. It's intensely crowded. I don't see any way to service all these industries and the towns just keep growing. Doesn't seem right just to throttle the towns. 07:04:22 <xiong> Also, I'm awash in cash -- have been since about 1860. 07:04:45 <Qantourisc> yea, that botters me most :) 07:04:51 <xiong> I'm thinking that I should start over on a bigger, sparser map; maybe add a challenge of some sort. 07:05:32 <xiong> Well, town growth is good. You certainly can halt it at some point or along some line. 07:07:12 <xiong> After 55 years of play, with growth driven by nothing except some horse omnibus service and a cheap rail line, my biggest town has grown over 42K pop. What might happen if I gave it decent service? 07:07:55 <xiong> 50 years of sincere pax service, without artificial bounds, it would likely fill the map all by itself. 07:08:52 <Qantourisc> pax ? 07:09:04 <Qantourisc> next round i'll be in increasing the costs 07:09:16 <Qantourisc> so that a unsuccessfull line costs me :) 07:09:24 <Qantourisc> to prevent huges profits :) 07:09:28 <Qantourisc> als towns grown 07:09:42 <Qantourisc> so you need to dig in like like a tick 07:09:50 <Qantourisc> before it expands :S 07:10:30 <xiong> passengers 07:12:23 <xiong> From what I see, you want to reserve some space about 8 tiles away from every town center, as soon as you can. Lay down dummy rail and let the town grow through it. But reserve a fair good plot, maybe as much as 16x16; and at least a 4 tile wide straight aisle in and out. 07:12:47 <xiong> That's every town, including the little ghost towns, because they all grow and they all grow big. 07:14:17 <xiong> The other thing is, I got feeder line religion. From now on, mainline handles only traffic from one big, transfer station to another. And the feeder loops are completely cut off, so feeder trains can't escape onto the main, even when ordered to depot. 07:14:36 <Qantourisc> but you really only need 1 town if you don't care about passangers :) 07:15:15 <xiong> Pax important. Not only a destination for food and goods. Pax fuels your early money. 07:15:35 <Qantourisc> i run on coal :D 07:17:40 *** George is now known as Guest98 07:17:40 *** Guest98 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:17:43 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 07:19:47 <xiong> I've been playing with *reduced* breakdowns?? "Oh gods, if this is the best of all possible worlds, what must the others be like?" 07:20:01 <Qantourisc> they brake down more :D 07:21:14 <__ln__> Qantourisc: no, they break down more. 07:22:39 <xiong> __ln__, If they break, they brake. 07:24:24 <Qantourisc> ps do you know a way to make sure i don't haul empty load ? 07:24:31 <Qantourisc> like switch wagons ? 07:24:40 <Qantourisc> ofcours they will stay at the wrong position :) 07:24:47 <Qantourisc> so that can't be done either :/ 07:28:16 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe83de00-38.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:28:38 *** andythenorth_ [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:28:56 <Qantourisc> hmm only refittable trains can use other wagons 07:30:05 <Qantourisc> "is lost" :) 07:30:08 <Qantourisc> no your LATE 07:31:05 <Qantourisc> oil rigs are also fun 07:31:10 <Qantourisc> it's just, they are on the see :) 07:31:39 <Qantourisc> *sea 07:32:27 <Qantourisc> â¬115 mil :/ 07:32:37 <Qantourisc> SO â¬115 * 10^6 07:32:50 <Qantourisc> riduclas 07:36:54 <Qantourisc> xiong: next time i'll use either a feeding system 07:36:58 <Qantourisc> or a better mainine 07:36:59 <Qantourisc> i'm not sure 07:37:08 <xiong> Try both. 07:37:22 <Qantourisc> got a point there 07:37:30 <Qantourisc> better mainline means: LOADS of space :) 07:37:44 <xiong> Well, yes and no. 07:37:50 <Qantourisc> hmmm 07:37:51 <Qantourisc> idea 07:37:55 <Qantourisc> fat mainline 07:38:04 <Qantourisc> and only feeders over short distances 07:38:16 <Qantourisc> then all the goods get put on the mainline 07:38:19 <xiong> I spent quite a bit of time building a couple of symmetric 4 way interchanges. 07:38:20 <Qantourisc> and the mainline does the distance 07:38:36 <Qantourisc> i don't have the space for those in this map :) 07:38:43 <Qantourisc> the towns are closely packet :D 07:38:44 <xiong> Now, I think that was a mistake. The mainline should not have any branches or loops. 07:39:01 <Qantourisc> yes mainlines are sensitive to stuff :D 07:39:15 <Qantourisc> if you want i can send you a screenshot of some shit :D 07:39:26 <xiong> So, all the interchanges are asymmetric: They are just to get trains to the big transfer stations. 07:39:46 <Qantourisc> ? 07:40:04 <Qantourisc> what is a giant screenshot :D 07:40:23 <Qantourisc> Holy shit :) 07:40:27 <Qantourisc> it's ALLL of it :D 07:40:28 <xiong> If the mainline has no loops or branches -- if it is simply a great big circle -- then there is no need for symmetric interchanges. 07:40:45 <Qantourisc> i see 07:41:05 <Qantourisc> let me reduce that screenshot size so you can open it :D 07:41:12 <xiong> Don't worry about it, Qantourisc. Fry's has 2 Tb drives on sale. 07:41:22 <Qantourisc> yea 07:41:30 <Qantourisc> but do you also have 3.7GB free ram to spare ? 07:42:17 <Qantourisc> if so i'll send it as is 07:42:21 <Qantourisc> otherwise :) 07:42:32 <Qantourisc> i recommend you let me scale it down a notch :) 07:42:49 <xiong> Ho ho. I'll take a hit, thanks. 07:42:59 <Qantourisc> "hint" ? 07:43:10 <Qantourisc> a take a hit 07:43:12 <Qantourisc> ok 07:43:14 <Qantourisc> DCC or HTTP ? :) 07:43:16 <xiong> As in, you can step on it, man, thanks. 07:43:32 <xiong> HTTP, if you can figure out where to put it. 07:43:38 <Qantourisc> i'm also not familiar with the expressiong "step on it" 07:44:28 <Qantourisc> xiong: http://qantourisc.afraid.org:8080/Avoncombe%20Transport,%202000-08-15.png 07:44:31 <Qantourisc> should work iirc 07:44:50 <Qantourisc> look out it's 40MB PNG file :) 07:44:59 <xiong> Both terms are drug slang. A 'hit' is to inhale marijuana. To 'step on' drugs, usually cocaine or heroin, is to dilute them, often with mannitose. 07:45:27 <Qantourisc> so you want the small version ? 07:45:45 <Qantourisc> cause this is the hugamongo version 07:45:47 <xiong> That's 'manitose'. 07:46:11 <Qantourisc> i don't know slang 07:46:12 <xiong> 40 Mb should be fine. 4 Gb, not so much. 07:46:20 <Qantourisc> 4GB in ram 07:46:23 <Qantourisc> 40MB on disk :) 07:46:27 <Qantourisc> i'll schrink it :D 07:46:39 <xiong> Yah. Step on it. 07:47:32 <Qantourisc> are you intrested in long lines but simple ones ? 07:48:29 <Qantourisc> xiong: ? 07:49:29 <xiong> Er? 07:49:41 <Qantourisc> xiong: i got a line running from 1 size to the other side 07:49:48 <Qantourisc> i think i can trim that off right ? 07:49:52 <xiong> Ah. Well, let me see this. 07:49:54 <Qantourisc> because it's not verry intresting :) 07:50:23 <xiong> Don't cut anything. Just take a 50% reduction. Be sure to save in indexed mode. 07:50:33 <Qantourisc> indexed mode ? 07:50:46 <xiong> You're in GIMP, I hope. 07:50:50 <Qantourisc> yes 07:51:26 <Qantourisc> 50% reduction = 1GB of ram 07:51:29 <xiong> So, change the mode of the image to indexed. You should, theoretically, use the "correct" OTTD palette but I don't care. 07:51:43 <Qantourisc> GIF ? 07:52:20 <xiong> GIF is an indexed format and probably will give you better compression than PNG. However, PNG also has an indexed mode. 07:52:28 <Qantourisc> i see 07:52:33 <Qantourisc> i'll also get filesize down :) 07:52:35 <Qantourisc> after resize 07:52:51 <Qantourisc> resizing 4GB is quite the work :) 07:53:18 <Qantourisc> ok 07:53:21 <Qantourisc> it's ugly 07:53:24 <Qantourisc> do you care ? 07:53:32 <Qantourisc> or do i resize using another interpolation ? 07:53:41 <xiong> Indexing means that each pixel is represented by a single byte (or less, if the palette is 128 colors or fewer). A regular web RGB color spec uses a full byte for each of R, G, and B; so it's at least 3 times as big. 07:54:06 <Qantourisc> i sorta knows :) 07:54:10 <Qantourisc> don't worry 07:54:17 <xiong> Interpolation doesn't make much difference when downsizing. You're not interpolating; you're deleting. 07:54:18 <Qantourisc> i just didn't know you mean color indexing :) 07:54:26 <Qantourisc> i was thinking databse indexing :) 07:55:20 <xiong> Also, using an indexed mode, you can't really interpolate; there are no intermediate colors. 07:56:00 <xiong> This is a good thing if you're going for high compression. One of the benefits of indexing is that it tends to eliminate small differences, so compression works better. 07:56:06 <Qantourisc> it was already in indexed mode :) 07:56:13 <Qantourisc> that's why the scaling was so ugly :D 07:56:21 <xiong> You might also try JPEG and really jam down on the compression. 07:56:41 <Qantourisc> proccessing :D 07:56:53 <xiong> Don't worry about ugly. 07:57:02 <Qantourisc> right now i'm happy i decided to go nuts on ram in my system :D 07:57:21 <Qantourisc> (when rending and stuff i often hitted my memory limit :D) 07:57:45 <Qantourisc> so i put in a sane amount of affordable memory :) 07:58:05 <Qantourisc> now i can render stuff at high resolutions without killing anyone :) 07:58:18 <Qantourisc> pitty gimp uses only 1 core :/ 08:04:37 *** heffer_ [~felix@hyperion.fetzig.org] has joined #openttd 08:04:37 *** heffer [~felix@hyperion.fetzig.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:14:11 <xiong> I think my mistake was thinking of this as a game. Maybe it's better thought of as a model layout. 08:15:21 <xiong> So, this new map, I started with few towns, few industries. I'll let those suggest track layout. But they won't get in the way. After the track is laid in, then I can fill in any empty spots with well-chosen buildings. 08:15:38 <xiong> It's not as though I can't put in another town somewhere. 08:22:46 <Qantourisc> :) 08:28:17 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4db81c75.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 08:29:12 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-86-49-8-184.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 08:35:25 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C858.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:37:24 <Qantourisc> xiong: http://qantourisc.afraid.org:8080/Avoncombe%20Transport,%202000-08-15%20Small.png 08:38:20 <Qantourisc> xiong: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ECSVectors 08:39:31 <xiong> Mm. Don't use the ECS stuff. Think it might conflict with something. Got enough going. 08:42:44 <xiong> Oops! Google Chrome could not connect to qantourisc.afraid.org:8080 08:43:03 <Qantourisc> DANG 08:43:06 <xiong> Retry... 08:43:06 <Qantourisc> hold on 08:44:06 <Qantourisc> ip is wrong 08:44:07 <Qantourisc> sec 08:44:58 <Qantourisc> DNS update fails :/ 08:45:11 <Qantourisc> 84.196.144.220 it is then 08:45:34 <Qantourisc> 84.196.146.56 08:45:37 <Qantourisc> i mean that ip adress 08:48:29 <Terkhen> good morning 08:49:30 <George> I see nothing related to ECS on that screenshot. What made you to make such an advice? [11:40:13] <xiong> Mm. Don't use the ECS stuff. Think it might conflict with something. Got enough going. 08:49:54 <Qantourisc> George: just found out about it :) 08:50:27 <George> and what problem do you have with ECS? 08:50:32 <xiong> George, It's not advice; I wouldn't presume. I left out the pronoun. 08:51:07 <xiong> Qantourisc, Still no loading. 08:51:18 <Qantourisc> xiong: weird 08:51:23 * Qantourisc double checks 08:51:46 <xiong> I'm trying the one ending .56? 08:52:27 <George> you mean no loading of the picture? I've opened it with this URL http://84.196.146.56:8080/Avoncombe%20Transport,%202000-08-15%20Small.png 08:52:39 * xiong tries that 08:53:09 <xiong> Success. 08:53:54 <Qantourisc> xiong: so what did you try ? :D 08:54:18 <xiong> A lot of stuff, none important. I see it now. 08:54:32 <xiong> Do you want comments, worship, or curses? 08:56:50 <xiong> Up to you. 08:58:00 <Qantourisc> the one you feel is valid for this mess :) 08:59:05 <xiong> Um. Well, interesting. Definitely not how I started out. I realize that some of this stuff, you're experimenting. Feel free to ignore obvious comments, foolishly made, and apologies in advance. 08:59:26 <xiong> I like the mainline *under* the town. It's perhaps impractical but it's... nifty. 09:00:31 <xiong> I don't like the mainline hard by the NE shore. That's pointless. You can only hook up to it from the SW side, of course. 09:00:39 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:00:42 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:00:45 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 09:01:29 <xiong> Bear in mind that cargo should be delivered by the fastest, shortest route. You don't want to go away from the center to put stuff on the main. 09:02:00 <xiong> Ideally, the main -- so I theorize -- should be a big, dumb loop; but not too big. 09:03:01 <xiong> There's some tradeoff between quick trips from one side to the other; and from two adjacent areas -- areas still far away enough from each other to go through the main. 09:04:06 <xiong> Mm, I don't like dead-end stations. Departures overlap arrivals. If you're involved in an industry chain, you could even have a lockup. 09:04:24 <xiong> However, I admit yours are done very neatly. 09:06:23 <xiong> There's a section near the center I don't quite understand. From the double main through a couple towns to an interchange near the big lake S. 09:06:42 * Qantourisc takes a look 09:06:47 <xiong> Seems all traffic on that line is forced through those stations. 09:07:19 *** Chris_Booth_ [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:07:35 <xiong> Perhaps you're just thinking, Oh, this is only pax service and I don't care if the trains always stop when they pass through station. 09:08:09 <xiong> But freight will go that way unless you make it impossible. 09:08:53 <xiong> That same interchange near the S lake -- why 4 stations hard by the interchange? 09:09:29 <Qantourisc> you mean the station directly above the lake ? 09:10:37 <Qantourisc> could make some notes on the image to tell you where stuff is going :) 09:10:44 <xiong> S lake, the one near the cut-off S corner. To its N, a town, 2-3 mines, a power plant. 09:11:18 <xiong> There are 4 collections of station platforms there. 09:11:28 <xiong> Why not 1 or 2 big ones? 09:12:15 <xiong> Um, in fact, I see sliding around the W of the town to a 5th station just N of it. 09:12:25 *** ogre [~ogre@par69-2-82-224-40-212.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 09:12:32 <Qantourisc> you mean: the coal mine, power plant, 2x iron mine 09:12:37 <xiong> Yah. 09:12:42 <Qantourisc> a 09:12:46 <Qantourisc> max size stations 4x4 09:12:55 <xiong> Why? 09:14:01 <xiong> That's kinda... Well, I tell you; after this last game, I swore off 4-tile-long stations. Engine, caboose, two freight cars, and you're done. 09:14:53 <xiong> Dunno why you chose those conditions. I built 6 long, but then I weakened in a few places and built 4. Terribly regret it now. 09:15:44 <Qantourisc> xiong: because i set it as a challange :) 09:15:50 <xiong> I have all the options on: Disjoint stations, irregular stations, and max spread at 18. 09:15:52 <Qantourisc> i didn't "choice" it 09:16:04 <Qantourisc> i limmited the station size in the advanced settings 09:16:13 <Qantourisc> "station spread" 09:16:17 <xiong> I would find that unbearable. 09:16:21 <Qantourisc> that's why there are 4 stations :) 09:16:25 <Qantourisc> hehe :) 09:16:35 <xiong> But, to each his own. 09:17:15 <xiong> You're not playing with FIRS, ISRS, or TTRS, are you? 09:17:37 <Qantourisc> what are those ? :) 09:18:02 <xiong> Those are NewGRFs, all popular; and play nice with each other. 09:18:26 <Qantourisc> what do they stand for so i can look at them :) 09:18:29 <xiong> In order, basically, new industries, new stations, new towns. 09:18:38 <Qantourisc> BTW is there an easy way to add GPRS in bulk ? 09:18:46 <xiong> Oh yeh. 09:19:23 <Qantourisc> so what are they short for so i can DL the GRFS's 09:19:52 <xiong> Well, do online content. 09:20:28 <Qantourisc> FIRS i found ISRS not 09:20:44 <andythenorth_> search "industrial stations" 09:20:53 <Qantourisc> TTRS dount 09:20:54 <planetmaker> the usual abbreviation is also ISR 09:21:02 <xiong> FIRS, I dunno, F-? Industry Replacement Set. IRSR, Industrial Renewal Station Set. TTRS, Total Town Replacement Set. 09:21:08 <Qantourisc> ISR just stalllsed 09:21:24 <andythenorth_> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - recurses... 09:21:30 <Qantourisc> so how do i add GRPFS in bulk 09:21:44 <Qantourisc> thank you all GRFS's recommended by xiong found 09:21:50 <xiong> Easier to browse the list of them than to type the names... which all sound alike anyway. 09:22:22 <xiong> To go with above, a new vehicle set or five. 09:23:11 <planetmaker> Qantourisc: my two favourite settings: 09:23:23 <xiong> I've got NARS, which does road and rail; FISH; and a number of the AV8 sets. 09:23:36 <xiong> HEQS and eGRVTS. 09:23:42 <Qantourisc> do i have to add them all 1 by one? :) 09:23:46 <planetmaker> swedish houses, heqs, firs, fish, ukrs or nars and an appropriate townname newgrf and a couple of station newgrfs 09:23:58 <planetmaker> or: all Japanese Newgrfs and a couple of station newgrfs 09:24:03 <xiong> Wait, I think I lied about NARS. That may only be rail. eGRVTS does road. 09:24:36 <planetmaker> oh. add variable snowline and swedish rails to the first selection of newgrfs ;-) 09:24:47 <xiong> Qantourisc, You do this all from the splash screen under Check Online Content and NewGRF Settings. 09:25:07 <xiong> Be sure you have openttd nightly. 09:25:08 <Qantourisc> xiong: i know, but then i need to activate them no ? 09:25:23 <planetmaker> don't do it on a running game 09:25:30 <xiong> Yes. It's easy, sort of. Check the readme's for parameter settings. 09:25:31 <planetmaker> select first. Then create a new game 09:25:49 <xiong> Yah, don't even think about shoving all that stuff into an existing savegame. 09:25:56 <Qantourisc> haha :) 09:25:57 <Qantourisc> i don't :D 09:27:21 <xiong> I find the pax stations are quite boring. I have Rural Stations and Canadian Stations. They don't fight with ISRS, unlike other sets that... might. 09:27:24 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-86-49-8-184.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:27:39 <xiong> s/pax/default pax/ 09:28:44 <xiong> Past that point, well, I'm the wrong guy to ask. There's about 6 NewGRFs in very heavy use and I think I've mentioned them. 09:34:14 *** AveiMil [~AveiMil@232.81-166-168.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 09:36:36 <AveiMil> Morning! 09:38:44 <AveiMil> So I'm reading this to try to understand nml: http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml/raw-file/tip/docs/nml-language.html | I wonder about the grf {} block, is that mandatory and is it perhaps the parent block of for instance the basecost {} block? Or are they seperate blocks? 09:39:12 <Alberth> separate afaik 09:39:27 <planetmaker> separate and mandatory 09:39:31 <Alberth> the 'grf' block is used for identifying the NewGRF you are making 09:39:50 <planetmaker> AveiMil: you might just as well look at one of the existing NML newgrfs 09:39:56 <Alberth> ie it should be worldwide unique for every NewGRF you make :) 09:40:07 <planetmaker> IMHO they can give quite well an idea how things work :-) 09:42:00 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73C2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:42:04 <AveiMil> where do I find one of the existing NML newgrfs? 09:42:37 <Qantourisc> BTW how do multiplayer work ? it's a "world" you host ? 09:42:44 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73C2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:42:49 <planetmaker> on the devzone. SwedishRails, OpenGFX+Trains, OpenGFX+RV, OpenGFX+Airports 09:43:01 <Terkhen> AveiMil: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ 09:43:39 <planetmaker> Maybe also the (discontinued) OpenGFX+ repository is helpful as it's not as complicated as the other four projects 09:44:20 <AveiMil> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/airportsplus/repository/entry/scripts/Makefile_nml 09:44:27 <AveiMil> like that? that dosent look familiar from the documentation 09:44:40 <planetmaker> that's part of the build environment 09:44:47 <planetmaker> and not nml 09:44:57 <planetmaker> it just helps to build the newgrf automatically 09:45:11 <Terkhen> the nml code is in the src and lang folders 09:45:27 <planetmaker> what Terkhen says 09:46:00 <planetmaker> the newgrfs are usually defined in the header.pnml 09:46:16 <planetmaker> and then subsequently other files are used to describe the single features 09:47:10 <Qantourisc> I'm confused about online ? 09:47:12 *** Ammler [~ammler@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:47:23 <Qantourisc> every time i join a server there seems to be nonone ? 09:47:32 <AveiMil> Why is it .pnml and not .nml? 09:47:41 *** Ammler [~ammler@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 09:48:00 <planetmaker> because those files as they are in the repository still need preprocessing, thus cannot be understood by nmlc directly 09:48:14 <planetmaker> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-trains/nightlies/LATEST/log/ogfx-trains.nml <-- after pre-processing everything is combined in one file like there 09:48:28 <Alberth> Qantourisc: there are normally more servers than players, so a lot of them are empty 09:48:39 <planetmaker> the pre-processing bascially only combines the many source files into one which the compiler can eat 09:49:05 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4db81c75.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:49:07 <planetmaker> but when programming it's convenient to keep different things in different files than one with 5000 lines of codee 09:49:09 <planetmaker> -e 09:49:13 <Qantourisc> Alberth: the ones with peaple/max - companies/max are the ones with peaple on right ? 09:49:21 <AveiMil> Hmm, okay. So developers split "one .nml" file into several to make it easy to read or something? 09:49:26 <planetmaker> yes 09:49:36 <Alberth> Qantourisc: for values other than 0, yes :) 09:49:38 <AveiMil> and then you have to process taht into one .nml file before you use nmlc 09:49:46 <Qantourisc> weird 09:50:01 <planetmaker> AveiMil: basically yes 09:50:08 <Terkhen> AveiMil: yes, but the build environment should take care of that for you 09:50:22 <planetmaker> that's what the makefile* files are for 09:50:24 <AveiMil> ok, but then for my little basecost mod with nml, all I need is the grf block and the basecost block, and I'll write that up using a simple text editor and saving it as a .nml file and then using nmlc to great the NewGRF? 09:50:37 <Alberth> AveiMil: it uses the C pre-processor for that task 09:50:39 <planetmaker> that will work, yes 09:51:08 <AveiMil> thanks, you'be been helpful! 09:51:14 <AveiMil> a cookie and a star for everyone 09:51:26 <Alberth> AveiMil: the build env is useful for larger grfs 09:51:34 <planetmaker> quite so ^ 09:51:44 <AveiMil> ah 09:51:48 <planetmaker> but I'm biased ;-) 09:51:59 <Alberth> like when you make a toyland FIRS :) 09:52:12 <planetmaker> :-) 09:52:21 <Alberth> or rotated airports 09:52:32 <AveiMil> Some more stupid questions, why is it called a NewGRF? Intuitively when I first saw "NewGRF" in the Check online content menu I thought these were only graphics packs, like new train graphics (images), but it's apperantly more. 09:52:41 <planetmaker> that's like opengfx+airports... rotatable small airport. 09:52:55 <planetmaker> But no-one yet drew the graphics in a rotated fashion for the other airports :-( 09:52:57 *** TrueBrain [~patric@145.118.72.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:53:03 <Qantourisc> ps a filter would be nice :D 09:53:04 <planetmaker> Yexo and I would even code them as soon as we get them 09:53:08 <Alberth> they were the graphics at first, but as any open source stuff, it grows and grows and grows and ... 09:53:14 <AveiMil> and you use the word "patch" instead of "mod" which sounds weird. A patch in my mind "fixes" something. 09:53:31 <AveiMil> ...that's already there 09:53:33 <planetmaker> where do we use patch? 09:53:51 <planetmaker> we have settings, we have newgrf, we have ai... 09:54:17 <planetmaker> patches are something which modify the source code and require you to compile successively. In the OpenTTD worlds 09:54:17 <AveiMil> hmm, good question, felt I've been told "why don't you make a patch with that functionality" here in IRC 09:54:22 <AveiMil> but maybe I'm wrong 09:54:39 <Alberth> mod is more a set of user-visible changes imho. A patch is a modification, often much smaller than a mod 09:54:40 <planetmaker> yes. That means: write source code patches. Modify the game as it works 09:55:23 <planetmaker> hm... in my understanding a mod is something which uses existing framework and just applies new content while a patch modifies the programme itself 09:55:25 <AveiMil> ok, that's your definition, that's why I was a bit confused as in my head a patch is like a bug fix not new content. 09:55:43 <AveiMil> but I guess it can be both 09:55:44 <AveiMil> hehe 09:55:44 <planetmaker> but we can conclude: those words are fuzzy ;-) 09:55:51 <Alberth> about 1 in 5 of the changes we do is a fix :) 09:56:05 <planetmaker> hmmm... not 4 of 5? 09:56:30 <Alberth> no, most things are shuft shuffling code around or re-organizing it 09:56:37 <Alberth> s/shuft/just/ 09:57:00 <Alberth> ie 'preparing the code for the next fix or feature' :) 09:57:17 <AveiMil> grfid : "AB"; <- here I just make shit up? 09:57:33 <planetmaker> @calc (89-22)/22 09:57:33 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 3.04545454545 09:57:35 <AveiMil> and 02 can maximum be 08 since it's a byte? 09:57:38 <planetmaker> ^ 1/3 ;-) 09:58:03 * andythenorth_ has to draw yet more storage tanks for FIRS :P 09:58:10 <andythenorth_> how many times will I have to do this? 09:58:17 <planetmaker> n+1 09:58:37 <planetmaker> AveiMil: basically yes, make up an arbitrary sequence of 4 bytes 09:59:02 <AveiMil> The letters can be anything? 09:59:03 <planetmaker> Except... don't ever start with FF unless you know what that means and you mean it 09:59:12 <Alberth> AveiMil: first two letter are supposed to be author initials, is a 'project number', and a 'version' of that project. But many author don't follow those rules 09:59:26 <AveiMil> ok, ty 10:00:06 <AveiMil> so two NewGRF's can conflict or anything if they ahve the same ID? 10:00:36 <Alberth> yes, having the same ID may give problems 10:01:35 <planetmaker> you cannot activate two newgrfs with the same ID. Nor can you upload a newgrf to bananas when the ID exists there already 10:01:59 <Alberth> in particular, such data is saved in a game, so you can reload the grf if you load the game again. It is then important that you actually get the exact same grf, and not another one 10:02:09 <planetmaker> and we still don't have a comprehensive list of used IDs anywhere... hm 10:02:20 <Qantourisc> they don't talk allot on openttd :) 10:04:29 <AveiMil> So for name : string(STR_GRF_NAME); I can create a seperate line outside the grf block that says STR_GRF_NAME :AveiMil Mod 10:04:45 <AveiMil> STR_GRF_NAME is like a variable? 10:04:59 <planetmaker> it's a string to be put in the language file 10:05:25 <AveiMil> I saw here http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trains/repository/entry/lang/norwegian.lng, but for my Mod, I don't want language files 10:05:32 <AveiMil> so I can just do what I mentioned? 10:05:46 <planetmaker> you need a language file for the default language 10:05:57 <planetmaker> and why don't you want translations? 10:06:18 <planetmaker> and as you see ogfx-trains has a default.lng ;-) 10:06:55 <AveiMil> so, I make a default.lng file, place it in the same folder as my AveiMil_Mod.nml file 10:07:04 <AveiMil> and when nmlc runs it figures that out automatically? 10:07:06 <planetmaker> place it in a lang subfolder 10:07:27 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73C2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:07:31 <AveiMil> I don't need any declaraiton in my AveiMIl_mod.nml taht points to language files? 10:07:41 <planetmaker> you don't need that, right. 10:07:56 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73C2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:07:59 <planetmaker> but you need the lang subfolder for them. Or you need to tell nmlc where to find the language files 10:09:01 <AveiMil> Ok 10:09:07 <AveiMil> Each language appears to have a code, lang: 7F 10:09:10 <AveiMil> Where is that referenced? 10:09:44 <Alberth> not, nml handles all languages you supply by itself 10:10:26 <Alberth> (or I misunderstood the question) 10:10:41 <planetmaker> AveiMil: the language code tells openttd when to use that language 10:10:53 <AveiMil> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trains/repository/entry/lang/default.lng 10:10:57 <AveiMil> ok 10:10:59 <AveiMil> :) 10:11:06 <Alberth> you set that language in the game options menu 10:11:07 <planetmaker> e.g. if I select German, the newgrf will then know to use the strings from the German langauge file (if present) - or use the default (7F) 10:11:10 <AveiMil> so for English it must be 7F 10:11:26 <planetmaker> basically yes 10:11:32 <Alberth> English UK :) 10:11:44 <planetmaker> unless you want the default to be maori. But many might not like it 10:11:57 <AveiMil> :D 10:12:03 <planetmaker> indeed. English UK. English US is language 01 10:12:18 <planetmaker> or 00? 10:12:23 <Qantourisc> Ps in multiplayer, is there a way to share resources between companies ? 10:12:25 <AveiMil> I use English UK and since the world revolves around me, 7F it is. 10:12:33 <planetmaker> 00 10:12:46 <AveiMil> Though, I am Norwegian 10:12:56 <planetmaker> Qantourisc: yes. On an oil rig 10:13:04 <Alberth> planetmaker: figures :) 10:13:17 <Qantourisc> hmm, ok, not an option in this case, thanks :) 10:13:26 <planetmaker> :-) 10:16:42 <AveiMil> http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml/raw-file/tip/docs/nml-language.html#block-basecost 10:16:49 <AveiMil> If 0 is the same and 1 is double the cost. 10:16:54 <AveiMil> How can I make it 50% the cost? 10:17:01 <AveiMil> 50% extra 10:17:21 <AveiMil> Can I use decimal numbers? 10:17:57 <planetmaker> no 10:18:10 <planetmaker> you can only change stuff in powers of two 10:18:29 <AveiMil> :sadface: 10:21:26 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db186b0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:22:56 <AveiMil> So, how do I run nmlc? It's not an executable.. 10:22:57 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-67-91.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:24:19 <Alberth> it is a Python script 10:24:46 <AveiMil> What version should I download? 2.7 or 3.1.1? 10:24:52 <AveiMil> *3.1.2 10:25:15 <Alberth> 2.x 10:25:27 <AveiMil> And where's the image library? Don't see that on their website 10:26:21 <Alberth> hmm, 2.x requirement is not in the docs 10:26:27 <Alberth> you also need PLY 10:26:34 <Alberth> let me find PIL, a moment 10:26:37 <planetmaker> http://www.google.de/search?q=PIL+python 10:26:41 <planetmaker> ^ first hit 10:26:56 <AveiMil> http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/#pil117 10:26:59 <AveiMil> I don't know what to download 10:27:19 <AveiMil> "for phyton 2.6" is the highest, but I downloaded 2.7 10:27:23 <AveiMil> does it matter? 10:27:41 <Alberth> why not use 2.6 instead to be safe? 10:27:41 <AveiMil> nvm, http://effbot.org/downloads/#pil 10:28:58 <AveiMil> Where should I place ply-3.3? (since it's not an installer) 10:29:49 <Alberth> simplest would be in site-packages of python 10:29:56 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:30:30 <Alberth> (actually simplest is next to nmlc, but then python cannot find it if you ever need it at a different directory) 10:31:06 <AveiMil> "next to nml" same folder too as nml-r1013? 10:31:12 * andythenorth_ wonders if a buildout could fetch all the nml dependencies 10:31:19 <AveiMil> C:\Games\OpenTTD_NewGRF\nml-r1013 10:31:20 <AveiMil> C:\Games\OpenTTD_NewGRF\ply-3.3 10:31:24 <AveiMil> that's my current structure 10:31:27 <andythenorth_> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/zc.buildout 10:32:45 <AveiMil> I got it all installed... 10:32:47 <AveiMil> Now what 10:32:49 <AveiMil> :P 10:32:59 <Alberth> run mlc :p 10:33:00 <AveiMil> phyton command line 10:33:02 <AveiMil> hmm 10:33:14 <Alberth> python nmlc yourfile.nml 10:33:38 <Alberth> andythenorth_: no idea, I have a package manager taking care of that 10:34:15 <Qantourisc> most worhless company ever: â¬2 10:34:40 <Alberth> they all start like that :) 10:34:56 <planetmaker> :-) 10:35:00 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 10:35:10 <Qantourisc> tried shipyard on multiplayer 10:35:11 <planetmaker> would be mean to tell the hard truth: -100.000 10:35:23 <Qantourisc> but didn't start with the most optimal choices 10:35:53 <Qantourisc> and i spend money on something that returns it in the next 20 years :/ 10:36:13 <AveiMil> Do you put the Python folder in your PATH so you can launch it from anywhere? 10:36:16 <Qantourisc> the game doesn't even last that long :D 10:36:27 <Qantourisc> AveiMil: that's a way 10:37:11 <planetmaker> AveiMil: I'd do that :-) 10:37:28 <AveiMil> ImportError: No module named ply.lex 10:37:38 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4db81c75.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:37:39 <AveiMil> How do I configure the PLY? 10:38:21 <planetmaker> did you install PLY? 10:38:24 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:38:30 <Alberth> (11:32:12 AM) AveiMil: C:\Games\OpenTTD_NewGRF\ply-3.3 <-- drop the "-3.3" 10:38:35 <AveiMil> it's not an installer (not the one I downloaded anyway) 10:39:01 <Qantourisc> planetmaker: so i cannot load goods to another player ? :D 10:39:07 <Alberth> it is just 2 files or so, not really worth writing an installer for 10:39:08 <Qantourisc> right i already asked sorry 10:39:08 <AveiMil> Alberth, made no difference to the error. 10:39:10 <planetmaker> Qantourisc: via oil rig 10:39:23 <Qantourisc> one should be able to setup contracts :D 10:39:55 <planetmaker> that's what infrastructure sharing used to do. But it's not updated for a year now 10:40:03 <Alberth> where is nmlc in your setup ? 10:40:15 <Qantourisc> :) 10:40:17 <AveiMil> C:\Games\OpenTTD_NewGRF\nml-r1013 10:40:32 <Alberth> no, the main python script file 10:41:18 <AveiMil> Not sure I understand 10:41:30 <Alberth> 'next to nmlc' is literally have 'ply' in the same directory as nmlc 10:41:40 <AveiMil> C:\Program Files\Python27 10:41:53 <Alberth> where is the nmlc.py file? 10:42:40 <AveiMil> Well, it's nowhere to be found in C:\Games at least :) 10:42:43 <AveiMil> Searched. 10:43:21 <planetmaker> you must have put nml somewhere ;-) 10:43:24 <AveiMil> C:\Games\OpenTTD_NewGRF\nml-r1013, that's the nml I downloaded 10:43:26 <Alberth> I'd expect C:\Games\OpenTTD_NewGRF\nml-r1013\nmlc.py 10:43:32 <AveiMil> and there's only a nml cfile there 10:43:34 <AveiMil> nmlc file 10:43:36 <AveiMil> NO extension 10:43:46 <Alberth> ok, that's fine 10:43:56 <Alberth> (I tkhink :p ) 10:44:16 <AveiMil> there isen't much in that file either, just a few lines 10:44:17 <Alberth> put ply in C:\Games\OpenTTD_NewGRF\nml-r1013 too 10:44:31 <AveiMil> like so? C:\Games\OpenTTD_NewGRF\nml-r1013\ply 10:44:49 <Alberth> yes, it does 'from nml import stuff', then stuff.main() 10:45:01 <Alberth> now run nmlc again 10:45:31 <AveiMil> did not work, but it's possible I put the wrong ply folder in there 10:45:34 <Alberth> that's why site-packages is much simpler in the long run 10:45:39 <AveiMil> I put the renamed ply-3.3 folder in there 10:45:54 <AveiMil> but there's a ply folder under ex ply-3.3 10:45:57 <AveiMil> i'll try that isntead 10:46:08 <Alberth> sounds like a good idea 10:46:53 <Qantourisc> Why would one not use maglev ? 10:46:57 <AveiMil> yay, new error 10:47:09 <AveiMil> String "STR_GRF_NAME" does not exist in the translations. 10:47:43 <AveiMil> but that's not true, I have lang\default.lng 10:47:44 <AveiMil> STR_GRF_NAME :AveiMil Mod {VERSION} 10:48:32 <AveiMil> I'll try specifying lang dir 10:49:40 <xiong> There are many, many settings available to the player. Amazing how configurable the game is, even without adding a single grf beyond the basic. My hat is off. 10:50:39 <xiong> And all these settings are available through the ingame GUI. Except for... *nine* of them, all having to do with font selection. These, you must edit the config file by hand. 10:51:03 <AveiMil> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trains/repository/entry/lang/default.lng <- Where does this developer get the {VERSION} from? 10:51:15 <AveiMil> I assumed this was from the header grf{} block 10:51:22 <AveiMil> but giving me an error in my test 10:53:17 <xiong> After crying, moaning, weeping, bitching, and driving everyone up the wall for a month about my poor eyesight and difficulty making out most everything, I have stumbled on these obscure settings, changed my fonts, and increased their sizes considerably. What an improvement! But may I suggest that, if you don't want to suggest players edit their configs by hand, you might allow them to make the changes in the Advanced Settings GUI. 10:53:27 <xiong> Me for bed. 10:53:40 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2F8F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:54:23 <Alberth> please find a universal way to get fonts and sizes etc for all platforms that we support 10:55:14 <Alberth> AveiMil: {VERSION} is some build system magic (you need planetmaker for that) 10:55:29 <AveiMil> I just removed it for now. 10:55:30 <Alberth> a simple way is to replace it with some fixed text 10:55:38 <AveiMil> Now I have my .grf file 10:55:42 <AveiMil> how do I install it? 10:55:56 <AveiMil> I see mods here are packed: C:\Documents and Settings\sdre\My Documents\OpenTTD\content_download\data 10:55:58 <Alberth> put in 'data' of your game 10:56:03 *** TrueBrain [~patric@145.118.72.168] has joined #openttd 10:56:03 <AveiMil> ok 10:56:33 <Alberth> start openttd, and select it from the main menu :) 10:56:37 <planetmaker> yes... I always want the newgrf to have the version my repository for the newgrf has 10:56:38 <AveiMil> it loads all .grfs in the C:\Games\OpenTTD\data automatically? 10:56:50 <planetmaker> I write the {VERSION} into custom_tags.txt 10:56:54 <planetmaker> which then can be used 10:56:55 <AveiMil> load it via NewGRF settings I guess 10:57:11 <Alberth> yes 10:57:30 <AveiMil> wow it worked 10:57:35 <AveiMil> fantastic 10:57:56 <AveiMil> I would never been able to piece together this information to do this without your IRC help 10:58:36 <AveiMil> When playing multiplayer, does everyone need teh same NewGRF packs, or is it only the server that matters? 10:59:38 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4db81c75.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:59:41 <Alberth> everybody must have the exact same setup 11:00:00 <AveiMil> are you sure? because I created a game yesterday and I had AI configured 11:00:21 <AveiMil> and that worked fine and Im' sure the others didt neccessary have the smae AI's configured 11:00:37 <Alberth> AIs run only at the server iirc, but that is a bit of an exception 11:00:43 <planetmaker> AIs are not newgrf 11:00:49 <AveiMil> ah right 11:01:16 <Alberth> basically, in MP, every player runs the same program at the same time, so you don't have to transfer all changes in the whole world 11:01:24 <AveiMil> planetmaker, Alberth said you did {VERSION} magic 11:01:25 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4db81c75.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:01:29 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-110.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:01:39 <AveiMil> How can I get the version from the .nml file to display in the language file? 11:01:50 <Alberth> which obviously breaks if you do something different than another player 11:01:50 <planetmaker> [11:57] <planetmaker> yes... I always want the newgrf to have the version my repository for the newgrf has 11:01:52 <planetmaker> [11:57] <AveiMil> it loads all .grfs in the C:\Games\OpenTTD\data automatically? 11:01:53 <planetmaker> [11:57] <planetmaker> I write the {VERSION} into custom_tags.txt 11:01:55 <planetmaker> [11:57] <planetmaker> which then can be used 11:02:29 <AveiMil> sorry, I missed that 11:03:18 <AveiMil> where do you place the custom_tags.txt? 11:03:31 <planetmaker> same place as the nml 11:03:59 <AveiMil> do you have an example file? 11:04:13 <AveiMil> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trains/repository/show <- don't see one there 11:04:43 <Alberth> it is generated, so not stored in the repo 11:05:17 <planetmaker> plain text file: 11:05:20 <planetmaker> VERSION :nightly-r88M 11:05:21 <planetmaker> TITLE :OpenGFX+ Trains nightly-r88M 11:05:44 <Qantourisc> Why does shipyard earn so litle ? :D 11:05:59 <AveiMil> So you update the version in both the .txt and the .nml file each time then? 11:10:07 <planetmaker> AveiMil: that's why I use for example the makefiles :-) 11:10:17 <planetmaker> They take care to update the version automatically for me ;-) 11:10:21 <planetmaker> otherwise: yes 11:12:00 <AveiMil> ah 11:12:05 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73C2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:12:33 <AveiMil> That's why your header says version : REPO_REVISION; 11:12:42 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73C2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:13:50 <planetmaker> yes 11:14:09 <planetmaker> that's only the numerical version. It's replaced by the gcc preprocessor to the actual number 11:14:59 <AveiMil> ah 11:15:09 <planetmaker> which in this case is not a string defined in custom_tags.txt :-) 11:15:18 <AveiMil> Thank you very much, now I have the basic tools and knowledge I need to make a basic mod. 11:15:23 <planetmaker> :-) 11:15:26 <planetmaker> you're welcome 11:16:40 <planetmaker> the very simple example project is possibly a good idea, Alberth 11:17:23 <Alberth> ask AveiMil for the source :p 11:17:27 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4db81c75.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:17:49 <Alberth> AveiMil: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1760 <-- this is what we are discussing about 11:18:54 <planetmaker> Alberth: I dare say, though, that half of it is already found in the documentation: fhttp://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml/raw-file/tip/docs/nml-language.html#installation ;-) 11:19:00 <planetmaker> http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml/raw-file/tip/docs/nml-language.html#installation 11:22:57 <AveiMil> Want me to upload my little silly mod there? 11:23:00 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 11:23:15 <planetmaker> start a forum thread about it in the newgrf development forum 11:23:20 <planetmaker> but seriously yes! 11:25:07 <planetmaker> IMOH it's important to share the work being done with others. Feedback can be useful and where's the fun to just have it for your own when others may find it useful? 11:25:21 <planetmaker> s/OH/HO/ 11:25:57 <Alberth> planetmaker: yeah, it mostly needs more details, like urls, versions, directory paths, actual command-line 11:26:07 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-86-49-8-184.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 11:26:20 <planetmaker> I guess so... but I don't know how all that works on windows... 11:26:22 <AveiMil> finnishing up my example mod, I'll upload it then 11:26:35 <Alberth> planetmaker: ^^^ where to publish can also be added :) 11:27:06 <Alberth> planetmaker: me neither, so glad I have yum doing it all for me :) 11:27:50 <planetmaker> :-) 11:28:02 <planetmaker> zypper or macports do the job for me, yes 11:28:14 <planetmaker> Upload possibilities... good point. 11:31:19 <Qantourisc> can i make chat text stay longer ? 11:31:42 <planetmaker> no. But you can scroll up in the console and read back there 11:32:11 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73C2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:32:36 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 11:32:54 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73C2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:38:59 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.104.150] has joined #openttd 11:40:17 <Qantourisc> ²a ok 11:42:00 <AveiMil> planetmaker, I can't get taht custom_tags.txt to work properly 11:42:20 <AveiMil> custom_tags.txt I have -> VERSION :1.0 (space between N :) 11:42:39 <AveiMil> in default.lng I have STR_GRF_NAME :{VERSION} 11:42:45 <planetmaker> what does 'not properly' mean 11:43:11 <AveiMil> wait, maybe it's something else: error is : line 3: String "STR_GRF_NAME" does not exist in the translations. 11:43:21 <AveiMil> STR_GRF_NAME :IRC Log Viewer {VERSION} is in my lang file 11:43:30 <AveiMil> TITLE and VERSION are defiend in custom_tags.txt 11:43:46 <planetmaker> and the langauge file is in the lang subfolder? 11:44:43 <AveiMil> yeah but nvm, found a small typo 11:44:44 <AveiMil> doh 11:44:47 <planetmaker> :-) 11:45:09 <dih> i am missing a hg repo for berries ..... 11:45:56 <Alberth> easy fix: hg init berries 11:46:07 <dih> on the dev server? 11:46:07 <AveiMil> Language file "C:\Games\OpenTTD_NewGRF\AveiMil_BaseCost_Mod\lang\norwegian.lng" 11:46:07 <AveiMil> contains non-utf8 characters. Ignoring (part of) the contents 11:46:10 <AveiMil> Is that bad? 11:46:14 <AveiMil> Guessing it dosen't like Ã¥ 11:46:19 <Alberth> dih: it is still empty then though :( 11:46:32 <Eddi|zuHause> AveiMil: you used the wrong encoding when saving that file 11:46:50 <dih> uh - wrong channel :-D 11:47:08 <AveiMil> ah 11:47:12 <AveiMil> works now, thanks 11:48:20 *** TB [~patric@145.118.72.168] has joined #openttd 11:48:31 <dih> hello TB 11:49:06 *** TrueBrain [~patric@145.118.72.168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:51:05 <AveiMil> I've added a norwegian.lng with language code 2F, the same as you did here: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-trains/repository/entry/lang/norwegian.lng 11:51:13 *** TB [~patric@145.118.72.168] has quit [] 11:51:17 *** TB [~patric@145.118.72.132] has joined #openttd 11:51:21 *** TB is now known as TrueBrain 11:51:24 <AveiMil> But when I test it in the game, choose norwegian language, it does not display the norwegian descritption for the mod 11:51:32 <Qantourisc> Is there a lot to translate if you want to add a new language ? 11:52:00 <Alberth> in OpenTTD you mean? 11:52:05 <Qantourisc> yes 11:52:37 <planetmaker> ~4200 strings or so? 11:52:37 <AveiMil> yes 11:52:44 <Qantourisc> JIKES 11:52:45 <Hirundo> AveiMil: Do you use a nightly version of OpenTTD? 11:52:51 <AveiMil> 1.0.4 11:52:54 <Alberth> Qantourisc: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/lang/english.txt 11:52:55 <Qantourisc> so only add a language if you are deteremend ? :p 11:53:18 <planetmaker> Qantourisc: well, yes and no 11:53:23 <Alberth> there is a web-interface for the translators 11:53:34 <planetmaker> http://translator.openttd.org 11:53:37 <Alberth> often there are several for a single language 11:53:38 <Qantourisc> planetmaker: actaully that list is managable :) 11:53:55 <Hirundo> AveiMil: Translated grf descriptions only work in nightlies, the translated vehicle names should work, though 11:53:57 <Qantourisc> planetmaker: are all languages accepted ? 11:54:14 <planetmaker> Qantourisc: in principle yes. Why not? 11:54:25 <planetmaker> Klingon might be a bit off-scale, but... 11:54:39 <Qantourisc> LangCode: jbo 11:54:56 <AveiMil> I see. 11:55:13 <planetmaker> what language code should that be? 11:55:22 <planetmaker> it doesn't follow the usual rules 11:55:41 <planetmaker> en_UK is the iso style we us. or just en for fallback 11:56:39 <Qantourisc> there is only 1 jbo :) 11:56:46 <Qantourisc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lojban 11:56:51 <planetmaker> ##isocode zh_TW <-- e.g. for traditional chinese 11:56:55 <Qantourisc> there are no subsets :) 11:57:20 <Qantourisc> jbo_world if you want :) 11:57:40 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ffa66.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:58:19 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host71-15-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 11:58:36 <Wolf01> hello 11:59:02 <planetmaker> I think we need ISO 639-1 ;-) 11:59:41 <Alberth> hello frosch123 and Wolf01 12:00:15 <planetmaker> and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-2 ;-) 12:00:47 <frosch123> hai alberth 12:00:50 <frosch123> hello everyone :) 12:03:56 <planetmaker> quak :-) 12:04:18 <frosch123> moin :p 12:04:47 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8813.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:04:50 <planetmaker> hm... is it scary if I have to consider switching on lights at 1pm? :-( 12:04:56 <Qantourisc> "You will only translate languages that you know," 12:05:05 <Qantourisc> hmmm 12:05:10 <frosch123> planetmaker: are you chatting while driving? 12:05:27 <planetmaker> frosch123: no, I'm sitting on my kitchen table. But it's dark... 12:05:32 <Qantourisc> planetmaker: in case of this language ... what would you consider "known enough" ? 12:05:40 <Alberth> he didn't open the curtains yet :) 12:05:45 <planetmaker> :-P 12:05:56 <planetmaker> Qantourisc: I only translate my mother tongue 12:05:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Qantourisc: that is entirely your own judgement 12:06:10 <Qantourisc> planetmaker: well no-one speaks this language by mother :D 12:06:27 <Qantourisc> planetmaker: (well exepct for 1 translation website, i think they breed them :D) 12:06:38 <planetmaker> I have no categories at hand how to judge proficiency in languages. 12:07:07 <Qantourisc> editing "afrikaans" 12:07:41 <Qantourisc> Whole map screenshotHele kaart schermprint <= that's translated like an ass :/ 12:08:04 <Qantourisc> but i don't know how to translte it any better though :) 12:08:10 <AveiMil> Hey guys, I put together my demo mod and uploaded it here 12:08:10 <AveiMil> http://www.aveimil.com/misc/AveiMil_BaseCost_Mod.zip 12:08:27 <AveiMil> take a look at let me know if something else should be added that's useful for beginners 12:08:47 <AveiMil> also let me know if I should upload it somewhere else 12:14:57 <planetmaker> AveiMil: why don't you start a tt-forums thread? 12:15:19 <planetmaker> no-one will find it, if you upload it *somewhere* 12:22:00 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8cd50.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:22:47 *** mikl [~mikl@2904ds1-mrb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 12:23:40 <AveiMil> ok, but did the contents look fine? should I change something before I make a tt-thread? 12:23:52 <mikl> Hmm, wasn't there Mac OS X builds of OpenTTD at some point? 12:24:04 <Alberth> there was 12:24:31 <planetmaker> at one point. prior to 1.0 12:25:11 *** Brianetta [~brian@212.183.140.42] has joined #openttd 12:25:22 <Alberth> but the Mac dev went away, so we cannot build the program any more, nor fix bugs 12:25:22 <George> would nvar=0 work for VariationalAction2 in case it is not a callback, but a usual Action2HousesIndustryTiles? 12:25:28 <mikl> seems a bit wierd that there are builds for OS/2 but not for Mac OS X ;) 12:25:37 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 12:26:05 <mikl> well, at least there is a homebrew recipe for it 12:26:32 <Eddi|zuHause> mikl: that is basically Apple's fault 12:26:42 <frosch123> George: nvar=0 always means a callback result 12:26:43 <Alberth> you cannot run Mac in a VM legally, so building is not possible 12:27:05 <Terkhen> mikl: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=45247 12:27:17 <Alberth> but building a version with bugs is useless anyway 12:27:34 <George> frosch123: what would happen for Action2HousesIndustryTiles? default value would be used instead of calculation result? 12:28:24 <George> I mean VariationalAction2 would fail and ude default result? 12:28:33 <frosch123> a default value is still a callback result. when resolving realsprites results in a callback result, the realsprite resolving failed 12:28:56 <frosch123> i guess industrytiles/houses would then draw the original image of the substitute type 12:29:25 <frosch123> vehicles likely draw a "?" image 12:30:15 <mikl> Alberth: well, you can if you run the VM on a Mac ;) - but I see what youâre saying :) 12:30:33 <planetmaker> mikl: do you donate to us an XServe? 12:30:53 <Alberth> planetmaker: we need a Mac dev much more urgently :) 12:30:59 <planetmaker> :-) 12:31:06 <planetmaker> I heard that much, I guess ;-) 12:31:34 <frosch123> how about buying apple, and resolving the company? 12:31:42 <mikl> planetmaker: I suppose a Mac Mini would do the trick :) 12:31:47 <planetmaker> I also heart that the remaining bugs are a bitch to fix, if not the appropriate hardware is available to test it on as they're very hardware specific 12:32:04 <Alberth> mikl: it needs to be a 19" rack machine 12:32:08 <mikl> but yeah, if we don't have a developer, that pointless anyways 12:32:43 <planetmaker> Alberth: With some I'm tempted to say 'works for me' :-P 12:33:04 <planetmaker> but as long as two people report the same issue... :S 12:33:08 <Qantourisc> planetmaker: hardware specific bugs ?!? 12:33:41 <Alberth> Qantourisc: we are as flabbergasted as you are :) 12:33:50 <Qantourisc> :) 12:34:02 <Qantourisc> unless you are using hacks ... there shouldn't be any of those :/ 12:34:20 <planetmaker> Qantourisc: there's no other way to explain it. If it works here on the same OS, but not there, it has to be hardware - if that's the only thing which differs 12:34:36 <planetmaker> especially if it comes to display-related bugs 12:34:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Qantourisc: the entire mac port is consisting of hacks. 12:35:02 <Qantourisc> ow .... 12:35:04 <Qantourisc> jikes 12:35:13 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 12:35:17 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:36:15 <planetmaker> so the only thing I can do is 'look at the bug report, guess where it goes wrong and then make another guess how to fix it' - and then hope that the original bug report can test it, does test it and verify whether it fixes it or not 12:36:21 <planetmaker> tedious at least 12:36:39 <Qantourisc> at the least indeed 12:36:42 <Eddi|zuHause> Qantourisc: apple has an extraordinarily unstable API. they introduce a brand new API in one version, deprecate it in the next, and remove it in the next. 12:36:50 <planetmaker> the only thing open which is NOT that way is the missing support of CJK input 12:37:04 <Qantourisc> Eddi|zuHause: how is one suppost to support thart 12:37:08 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-24-4.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 12:37:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Qantourisc: exactly. 12:37:23 <planetmaker> it's not quite as bad, but nearly, yes 12:37:48 * andythenorth_ looks at OS X bugs 12:37:53 <Alberth> Qantourisc: easy, be a proper Mac dev, buy dev kits from apple, go to courses, etc 12:37:55 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21090 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_engine.cpp openttd.cpp vehicle_base.h): -Codechange: Rename VehicleCache to NewGRFCache. 12:38:21 <Qantourisc> Alberth: i never liked mac :p 12:38:22 <Alberth> Qantourisc: except not feasible without money :) 12:38:38 <andythenorth_> what is the CJK issue? 12:39:01 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21091 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_engine.cpp vehicle_base.h): -Codechange: Add bit constants for checking NewGRFCache validity. 12:39:01 <mikl> well, this homebrew recipe does work: https://github.com/mxcl/homebrew/blob/master/Library/Formula/openttd.rb 12:40:24 <planetmaker> andythenorth_: it's basically a missing feature: you cannot input chinese characters 12:40:31 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21092 /trunk/src/ (ground_vehicle.cpp ground_vehicle.hpp roadveh.h train.h): -Codechange: Merge max speed functions. 12:40:47 <mikl> I'll try to add instructions for it on the Wiki 12:41:07 <planetmaker> mikl: http://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_Mac <-- like that? 12:41:15 <mikl> yeah 12:41:27 <mikl> `brew install openttd` FTY 12:41:29 <andythenorth_> hmm 12:41:45 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21093 /trunk/src/aircraft.h: -Codechange: Align some functions. 12:41:45 <Alberth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=48965 <-- more people doing Mac builds 12:41:57 <andythenorth_> FIRS 0.5.3 is going to have a little problem 12:42:02 <andythenorth_> :( 12:42:31 <planetmaker> andythenorth_: which one? 12:42:33 <Alberth> you hit a bump in the FIRS road? 12:43:22 <andythenorth_> Sugar refinery layout in 0.5.x is 2x3 12:43:35 <planetmaker> mikl: I don't know what that script is supposed to do... obviously install OpenTTD. But you might remove the reference to the original TTD. It's absolutely not needed 12:43:38 <andythenorth_> graphics I'm using are 3x2 12:43:54 <planetmaker> Rather install also automagically the base sets 12:44:01 <Eddi|zuHause> 2x3 sounds a little small 12:44:01 <planetmaker> andythenorth_: then add (also) a 2x3 layout 12:44:13 <planetmaker> problem then solved 12:44:23 <andythenorth_> graphics will be weird 12:44:27 <andythenorth_> but yes 12:44:33 * planetmaker sees no big issue with that except that andy has to do more drawing :-P 12:44:40 <andythenorth_> no 12:44:56 <andythenorth_> it will just be a bit broken until 0.6 12:45:20 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21094 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Aircraft speed would ignore callback 36 result when it is greater than the engine speed. 12:45:20 <planetmaker> screenshot? 12:45:30 <AveiMil> PR_BUILD_WAYPOINT_RAIL -> http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml/raw-file/tip/docs/refs.html#refs-basecost-table 12:45:35 <AveiMil> How can I tell what that means? 12:45:48 <AveiMil> Waypoint rail? 12:46:00 <Hirundo> building a rail waypoint? 12:46:26 <planetmaker> if the name is not descriptive enough... you can only try :-P 12:46:44 <AveiMil> Don't see a rail waypoint in the game 12:46:49 <planetmaker> o_O 12:46:50 <AveiMil> nvmmm 12:46:50 <AveiMil> :D 12:46:57 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21095 /trunk/src/ (aircraft.h economy.cpp newgrf_engine.cpp): -Codechange: Use a function to convert aircraft speed to old units. 12:47:22 <Alberth> AveiMil: the real challenge is to find the non-rail waypoint :p 12:47:29 <planetmaker> :-) 12:48:08 <AveiMil> http://wiki.openttd.org/Waypoints , ah did not know about that feature 12:48:09 <AveiMil> hehe 12:48:09 <Hirundo> I guess, these are called buoys 12:48:27 <planetmaker> booooring! 12:48:44 <Alberth> Hirundo: you are giving the answer too soon :( 12:48:50 <Hirundo> Floating ship-guiding device, then? ;) 12:49:08 <Alberth> lol 12:49:20 <planetmaker> hehe 12:50:00 <planetmaker> but actually the list of constants tells about ...WAYPOINT_RAIL and ...WAYPOINT_BUOY 12:50:04 <AveiMil> PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_STEAM <- is taht running cost for stream trains? 12:50:05 <planetmaker> so it would have been obvious 12:50:12 <planetmaker> yeah 12:50:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21096 /trunk/src/ (aircraft.h aircraft_cmd.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp): -Fix: Display the real max speed for aircrafts instead of always using the engine value. 12:51:06 <planetmaker> :-P s/aircrafts/aircraft/ ;-) 12:51:21 <planetmaker> nasty word, granted 12:51:26 <Terkhen> too late :) 12:51:50 <Alberth> planetmaker: should be ...WAYPOINT_WATER :) 12:51:59 <planetmaker> hm, yes 12:52:26 <planetmaker> as patch author I'd love to see that kind of changes :-P 12:52:28 <Hirundo> The Internet (tm) often talks about aircrafts, The Internet (tm) is always right, ergo.... 12:52:29 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 12:52:33 <Alberth> or even WAYPOINT and BUOY 12:52:57 <planetmaker> Alberth: just waypoint is IMHO not good. We might introduce it for RV or planes, too 12:53:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21097 /trunk/src/ (9 files): -Codechange: Unify cached max speed for all vehicle types. 12:53:14 <planetmaker> though I don't see the latter ;-) 12:53:34 <planetmaker> waypoint_water sounds better to me 12:53:45 <Alberth> didn't we have a suggestion for radio towers or so for planes ? 12:53:51 <Hirundo> FYI - I reused the names from the OpenTTD source :) 12:53:54 <planetmaker> yes, we did 12:54:04 <planetmaker> hehe @ Hirundo :-) 12:54:10 <AveiMil> PR_BUILD_VEHICLE_TRAIN <- is there any way to split this so I can change purchase costs for steam/diesel/electric costs induvidually? 12:54:14 <AveiMil> just like running costs 12:54:27 *** Brianetta [~brian@212.183.140.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:54:40 <Hirundo> You can set a multiplier for each train individually 12:54:53 <AveiMil> but not by category? 12:54:58 <Hirundo> no 12:55:03 <planetmaker> AveiMil: no 12:55:29 <AveiMil> how many tears does it take for someone to implement that? 12:55:43 <planetmaker> 10 years or so 12:55:52 <Alberth> Hirundo: internal names of OpenTTD do not always mean anything useful outside the source. eg we have that names only because waypoint code and buoy code was unifiied recently 12:55:53 * AveiMil cries 12:55:53 <Hirundo> tears or years? 12:56:02 <AveiMil> my sweet tears 12:56:19 <planetmaker> Hirundo: I deliberately switched the few letters ;-) 12:57:06 <Hirundo> Vehicle set authors manage quite well without separate base costs, I think 12:57:23 <planetmaker> it works at least 12:58:26 <Alberth> AveiMil: running costs make a much bigger impact than the one time that you buy a train 12:58:28 <AveiMil> Can I set the purcahe cost for the induvidual trains in the basecost block? 12:58:39 <AveiMil> Yes 12:58:49 <Alberth> AveiMil: also, what happens if you combine a electric engine with a steam engine in a train? 12:58:59 <AveiMil> I want to have higher running costs for steam trains, but have the trains be relatively cheap, and lower running costs for electric trains 12:59:06 <AveiMil> but have the trains be fairly expensive 12:59:26 <Yexo> you can't change the cost of individual engines in the basecost block 12:59:35 <AveiMil> I mean the engine, not train 12:59:35 <Yexo> you'll need an item/property block for that 13:01:07 <AveiMil> Do you have an example block where a trains cost is cahnged? 13:01:47 <AveiMil> I notice I blend the words trains and engine 13:02:17 <planetmaker> look at opengfx+trains 13:02:27 <Yexo> item(FEAT_TRAINS, train_name, 3) { property { running_cost_factor: 20; } } 13:02:59 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21098 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Ships now store their max speed in the cache instead of recalculating it every time. 13:03:01 <Yexo> defauklt running cost factors (and the list of ids) can be found here: file:///D:/cygwin-home/openttd/nml/docs/refs.html#refs-vehicleIDs 13:03:20 <AveiMil> Give me access to your d drive :) 13:03:31 <Yexo> ehm, you know the url to the online docs 13:03:43 <planetmaker> :-D 13:03:55 *** Brianetta [~brian@212.183.140.36] has joined #openttd 13:03:58 <planetmaker> I seem to have seen that problem, Yexo ;-) 13:04:05 *** RoDJi [RoDJi@109.232.117.198] has joined #openttd 13:04:18 <Yexo> yeah, I've done that before :( 13:04:55 <planetmaker> I remembered when I put such link in the NML posting in tt-forums, but yeah 13:05:02 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21099 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: Store road vehicle max speed in the vehicle cache. 13:06:45 <AveiMil> I reallly don't know what path your trying to link me 13:06:47 <planetmaker> Alberth: http://pastebin.com/yJDmwwJi <-- publishing information maybe like that? 13:06:47 <AveiMil> I guessed http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml/docs/refs.html#refs-vehicleIDs 13:07:10 <AveiMil> dosent seem to be it 13:07:39 *** Yexo [~Yexo@153-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Quit: bye] 13:07:56 *** Yexo [~Yexo@153-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 13:07:59 *** mode/#openttd [+o Yexo] by ChanServ 13:08:09 <planetmaker> AveiMil: but you know where the NML docs are? 13:08:18 <planetmaker> You even have them on your hard disk. Come on! 13:08:49 <Yexo> http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml/raw-file/tip/docs/refs.html#refs-vehicleIDs <- you forgot /raw-file/tip/ 13:08:59 <Alberth> planetmaker: I'd add 'publishing' at the forums in there somewhere as well, but otherwise seems fine 13:09:09 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 13:09:11 <AveiMil> I don't have them on my harddrive :( 13:09:30 <Alberth> nml-rXYZ/docs 13:09:43 <AveiMil> right, ok I already had taht table up 13:09:54 <AveiMil> so I should use the name Kirby Paul Tank (Steam) ? 13:10:01 <AveiMil> looked funny since there's spaces and stuff 13:10:29 <Yexo> no, you can use any name you want 13:10:38 <Yexo> as long as it doesn't have spaces 13:11:07 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r21100 /trunk/src/ (engine.cpp newgrf.cpp newgrf_properties.h roadveh_cmd.cpp): -Feature [NewGRF]: Add CB36 support for road vehicle property 0x15 (Speed). 13:11:10 <Terkhen> andythenorth_: ^ 13:11:26 <andythenorth_> win 13:11:35 <andythenorth_> I can finish HEQS 0.9 :) 13:11:40 <AveiMil> So to set the KirbyPaul train cost I do this? 13:11:41 <AveiMil> item(FEAT_TRAINS, KirbyPaulTankSteam, 0) { property { cost_factor: 4; }} 13:11:47 <AveiMil> 0 = the number in the table 13:12:08 <planetmaker> yes 13:12:08 <Yexo> indeed 13:12:19 <Terkhen> tell me if something explodes :) 13:12:27 <Yexo> but notice that the default is 50, so you've just lowered the running cost 12.5x 13:13:04 * planetmaker prepares some IEDs for Terkhen 13:13:04 <AveiMil> hehe yeah, just to test 13:13:19 <AveiMil> but now that I tested, I see the train has dropped in the default purcahse list ordering 13:13:30 <AveiMil> I don't want to do that 13:13:30 <AveiMil> :( 13:13:40 <planetmaker> Not much way around that 13:13:54 <AveiMil> it says EngineID sort 13:13:58 <AveiMil> so why ain't it at the top 13:14:15 <planetmaker> yes. And it gets a new one as you re-define it 13:14:30 <planetmaker> hm... though it might be considered a bug... 13:14:45 <AveiMil> can't I set ID with a property? 13:14:47 *** Brianetta [~brian@212.183.140.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:15:04 <Hirundo> What happens, when you disable the engine pool? 13:15:33 <AveiMil> The what? 13:15:58 <planetmaker> Psst, Hirundo don't give people bad ideas :-) 13:16:23 <Yexo> planetmaker: why is that bad in this case? 13:16:26 <planetmaker> I actually always ponder whether I shall make the check for engine pool enabled fatal or keep it at warning level 13:16:33 <planetmaker> Yexo: it's not 13:16:38 <Yexo> either he sets a property of all the default engines (and they're sorted properly again) 13:16:39 <planetmaker> But it will then at a later stage 13:16:44 <Yexo> maybe 13:16:46 <Hirundo> The setting is called "Enable multiple GRF engine sets" 13:17:05 <planetmaker> It's actually a setting which could go from the GUI 13:17:25 <planetmaker> 'normal' users don't need it 13:18:04 <AveiMil> I don't notice any diference in the purcahse menu after disabling it 13:18:16 <Yexo> did you start a new game with the setting disabled? 13:18:26 <Yexo> planetmaker: only show it if "newgrf developer tools" is active 13:18:33 <planetmaker> Yexo: good idea :-) 13:19:06 <AveiMil> well no, but now I did 13:19:09 <Yexo> no idea if the current code for the advanced settings window allows that 13:19:11 <AveiMil> and notice no difference 13:19:48 <planetmaker> only when you start a new game 13:19:48 <Yexo> AveiMil: in that case probably the easiest solution is to set at least one property for all engines 13:20:03 <planetmaker> ^^ 13:20:09 <Alberth> no afaik, but folding of entries in a tree needs to be generalized :p 13:20:09 <AveiMil> Thought of that my self 13:21:28 <Yexo> George: do you check any ttdpatchflags in your newgrfs? And if so, which ones? 13:22:23 <Yexo> andythenorth_: same question ^^ 13:22:57 <AveiMil> I don't even need to change a property 13:23:03 <AveiMil> I just use the default cost 13:23:08 <AveiMil> and now the list is displaed correct again 13:23:17 <andythenorth_> Yexo: I don't know what ttdpatchflags are :) 13:23:19 <Yexo> you need to _set_ one property 13:23:22 <Yexo> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=TTDPatchFlags 13:23:34 <AveiMil> I guess I set one, but I just overwrite the default value with the default value 13:23:38 <Yexo> action7 with variable 0x85 13:23:40 <AveiMil> item(FEAT_TRAINS, GinzuA4Steam, 9) { property { cost_factor: 19; } } 13:23:50 <AveiMil> since it's already 19 it's fine 13:24:03 <AveiMil> so you don't hvae to set it to something diffeerent than 19 i meant 13:24:14 <Yexo> indeed 13:24:22 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4db81c75.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:24:29 <AveiMil> Ploddyphut Choo-Choo 13:24:32 <AveiMil> what are these trains? 13:24:36 <Yexo> toyland 13:24:37 <AveiMil> they don't have any (Steam)(Diesel) 13:24:59 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 13:25:26 <Yexo> give there is also a "Ploddyphut Diesel " I'd guess that "Ploddyphut Choo-Choo " is a steam train 13:25:48 <AveiMil> ah, lol, toyland 13:25:52 <AveiMil> silly 13:27:45 <andythenorth_> Yexo: far as I know I don't set any of those flags 13:27:56 <andythenorth_> only reason would be if another contributor has set them 13:28:01 <Yexo> you can't set them, only query them 13:28:11 <AveiMil> What is the cost_factor? cost factor 8 is 2x of cost factor 4? 13:28:45 <Yexo> yes 13:30:46 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 13:32:02 <planetmaker> [14:09] <Alberth> planetmaker: I'd add 'publishing' at the forums in there somewhere as well, but otherwise seems fine <-- you mean the forum post I made some time ago? Or...? 13:33:04 <Alberth> I mean the fact that you can make a thread in the Graphics Releases forum 13:33:44 <Alberth> to announce, and discuss the new NewGRF 13:34:23 <planetmaker> Uhm... I discuss the use of the Graphics Forum in length, don't I? 13:34:43 <planetmaker> Or you mean publishing there needs extra mentioning? 13:35:14 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 13:37:37 <Alberth> now it looks like bananas is the only option 13:38:51 <planetmaker> ok, added :-) 13:38:59 <Alberth> thanks 13:39:00 <George> [16:22:11] <@Yexo> George: do you check any ttdpatchflags in your newgrfs? And if so, which ones? > newcargos newindustries newhouses 13:39:37 <Yexo> you just check them to be sure they're enabled and if not, disable the newgrf? 13:39:47 <George> Yexo: yes 13:39:52 <Yexo> ok, thanks :) 13:40:21 <George> Yexo: LV checks newrvs 13:41:39 <Yexo> is there a better description of what those flags do than http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=TTDPatchFlags ? 13:43:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: afair ttdpatch.cfg has some more detailed descriptions 13:46:57 <planetmaker> <li>If you don't want to set all paths, make this library directly available inside nml's folder, so that ply.py is found in the 13:46:59 <planetmaker> sub-directory ply: nml/ply/ply.py 13:47:00 <planetmaker> ^^ can I say that, Alberth? 13:47:32 <Yexo> why not instruct to go to nml/ply and do: python setup.py install ? 13:47:48 <Yexo> same for nml btw 13:48:32 <Alberth> it's not ply.py, it is ply/yacc.py and ply/lex.py (ie AveiMil has ply-3.3/ply/{lex,yacc}.py) 13:48:58 <Alberth> but under site-packages is much more generic 13:49:28 <Alberth> does ply have a setup.py? 13:49:32 <Yexo> yes 13:49:56 <Alberth> in that case, definitely python setup.py install :) 13:50:02 <planetmaker> hm, also pil? 13:50:08 <Yexo> yes 13:50:17 <Alberth> apparently, it had an installer 13:50:43 <Yexo> but for windows there are exe installers for several packages, like pil 13:50:54 <Yexo> so that's "easier" for most windows users 13:51:10 <Alberth> Yexo: for linuces, you'd use a package manager 13:51:31 <Yexo> true 13:51:46 <Yexo> but I doubt ply is available there 13:52:33 <Alberth> python-ply-3.3-2.fc13.noarch you wanna bet? :) 13:52:43 <AveiMil> Can anyone identify all the toyland trains? http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml/raw-file/tip/docs/refs.html#refs-basecost-table 13:52:44 <planetmaker> Yexo: you'd loose 13:52:58 <planetmaker> AveiMil: no. Look at the docs. 13:53:05 <planetmaker> look at the default vehicle list 13:53:12 <Alberth> several ply using programs distribute the ply files as part of the program 13:53:40 <planetmaker> it's listed nicely by climate there.... :-( 13:53:43 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2F8F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 13:54:04 * planetmaker starts to be a bit disappointed 13:54:21 * Alberth hugs planetmaker 13:54:30 <AveiMil> http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml/raw-file/tip/docs/refs.html ain't that the docs? 13:54:31 <AveiMil> :( 13:55:03 <planetmaker> hm indeed not :S 13:55:07 <Yexo> planetmaker: it's not in the nml documentation 13:55:19 <Yexo> might be good to add it in that table 13:55:31 <planetmaker> but still: just open the game and look at it what you have in 2050 when you have all vehicles set to 'never expire' 13:55:34 <planetmaker> yes, it would be good 13:55:37 <planetmaker> to add there 13:55:48 <planetmaker> And I could have sworn it was there ;-) 13:56:18 <Alberth> AveiMil: http://wiki.openttd.org/Trains 13:56:35 <Alberth> AveiMil: and please feel free to enhance the docs 13:57:45 <planetmaker> we happily accept amended documentation to the NML docs 13:57:54 <planetmaker> and it would indeed be great to have that 13:58:13 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4db81c75.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:58:55 <planetmaker> http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/table/engines.h?rev=21100 <-- AveiMil a comprehensive list of all vehicles 13:59:11 <planetmaker> also with the climate information 14:06:11 *** Ammler [~ammler@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:06:48 *** Ammler [~ammler@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 14:08:24 *** Tennel [~Tennel@88.150.10.194] has joined #openttd 14:08:24 <AveiMil> PR_BUILD_RAIL <- this affects normal railway/electric rails and monorails right? 14:08:59 <planetmaker> IIRC yes 14:10:05 <planetmaker> If you don't install these with the packet manager of your choice (or there is none like on windows), 14:10:07 <planetmaker> you should install these libraries using <code class="ex">python setup.py install</code> from your 14:10:09 <planetmaker> command promt. 14:10:10 <planetmaker> ^^ concerning installation of python, pil and ply? 14:10:14 <planetmaker> maybe add NML to the list, too 14:11:18 <planetmaker> ...libraries and NML itself... 14:11:57 <planetmaker> ^ sounds ok, Yexo ? 14:12:18 <Yexo> yes 14:13:34 <planetmaker> then that's it for now 14:13:44 <Alberth> s/promt/prompt/ <-- planetmaker 14:13:54 <planetmaker> oh. :-) thanks 14:14:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.203.208] has joined #openttd 14:14:55 * andythenorth_ should learn how buildout works 14:15:00 <andythenorth_> and provide one for nml 14:15:10 <andythenorth_> buildout is good magic 14:16:16 <Alberth> only for platforms without their own package manager imho 14:16:35 <andythenorth_> really? 14:16:59 * andythenorth_ only knows about world of Zope 14:17:06 <andythenorth_> buildout is standard in zope world 14:17:12 <AveiMil> Ok, here's a stupid question 14:17:21 <AveiMil> item(FEAT_TRAINS, KirbyPaulTankSteam, 0) { property { cost_factor: 7; } } can I somehow multiply that cost_factor with a variable? 14:17:23 <Alberth> it is an solution for python-only afaik. 14:17:43 <andythenorth_> are there non-python dependencies for nml? 14:17:45 <AveiMil> like cost_factor: 7*STEAMENGINECOST 14:17:58 <AveiMil> and define STEAMENGINECOST elsewhere 14:18:00 <planetmaker> you can 14:18:20 <Yexo> AveiMil: note that openttd already multiplies it with the base cost 14:18:50 <AveiMil> right, but lets say I wanted to test and try with 50% increased cost for all steam enginees 14:18:55 <AveiMil> then I could just set my variable to 1.5 14:18:57 <Yexo> another thing to note is that the cost_factor cannot be greater than 255, also after multiplication 14:19:20 <Yexo> using a preprocessor would be a good idea 14:19:45 <AveiMil> Steam_Engine_Cost: 1.5 14:19:45 <AveiMil> item(FEAT_TRAINS, KirbyPaulTankSteam, 0) { property { cost_factor: 7*Steam_Engine_Cost; } } 14:19:46 <Alberth> andythenorth_: I have all my files managed by the system package manager yum. yum knows nothing about packages installed by buildout and vice versa. These managers tend to freak out if you try updating stuff, as files change without the manager knowing about. 14:19:48 <AveiMil> that's correct? 14:19:59 <Yexo> no, that syntax is not supported 14:19:59 <andythenorth_> Alberth: that makes sense 14:20:10 <Yexo> AveiMil: as I said, the best option is to use a preprocessor 14:20:14 <Yexo> than do something like this: 14:20:22 <Yexo> #define steam_engine_cost 1.5 14:20:23 <AveiMil> I don't know what a preprocessor is 14:20:25 <Yexo> and your second line 14:20:42 <andythenorth_> far as I know buildout helps isolate a specific project from any packages managed by the OS 14:20:43 <andythenorth_> http://www.timecastle.net/static/3-python-buildout.pdf 14:20:43 <Alberth> andythenorth_: you should have only one captain at a ship :) 14:20:43 <Yexo> planetmaker: are there somewhere instructions for copying the default newgrf project? 14:21:08 <planetmaker> not yet really... except in the example_newgrf project itself 14:21:13 <Alberth> andythenorth_: that would work of course 14:21:14 <planetmaker> which is by default still NFO 14:21:35 <planetmaker> I should change that :-) 14:21:43 <Alberth> but eg prevents installation at the general pythons site-packages 14:21:49 <andythenorth_> yes 14:22:00 <andythenorth_> in certain development cases, that's considered a benefit :) 14:22:05 <planetmaker> mind if I add the photoshop windows palette file to NML? 14:22:16 <Yexo> of course not 14:22:40 <Alberth> andythenorth_: sure, we do such stuff at work too, but your average windows user? 14:22:47 <andythenorth_> dunno 14:22:50 <AveiMil> Can you tell me the correct syntax? 14:22:59 <andythenorth_> compared to installing multiple packages manually? 14:23:13 <andythenorth_> I am used to buildout as a one-stop thing we give to people like me and testers 14:23:29 <planetmaker> AveiMil: param[40] = 1.5 14:23:32 <andythenorth_> it avoids having developers wandering around building python environments all the time 14:23:38 <andythenorth_> on other people's laptops 14:23:38 <Alberth> hmm, good point. 14:23:40 <planetmaker> and then use param[40] instead of your named constant 14:23:59 <andythenorth_> it's also the only sane way to deploy python apps to production webservers... 14:24:12 <andythenorth_> I can advocate buildout, but I can't create one :P 14:24:32 <Alberth> more difficult than NFO :p 14:24:46 <AveiMil> param[40] = 1.5 14:24:46 <AveiMil> item(FEAT_TRAINS, KirbyPaulTankSteam, 0) { property { cost_factor: 7*param[40]; } } 14:24:48 <AveiMil> like so? 14:24:57 <planetmaker> I think it'll work, yes 14:25:04 <AveiMil> what's the 40? 14:25:09 <planetmaker> a number ;-) 14:25:09 <AveiMil> can it be any number? 14:25:15 <planetmaker> 0 ... 64 14:25:17 <AveiMil> ok 14:25:23 <Yexo> <@planetmaker> AveiMil: param[40] = 1.5 <- that doesn't work, param[40] will be either 1 or 2 14:25:26 <planetmaker> it's the newgrf parameter number 14:25:41 <planetmaker> oh... hm. Ok :-) 14:25:42 <Alberth> planetmaker: I was sooo tempted to link to wikipedia 'definition of a number' :p 14:26:20 <Yexo> AveiMil: you can work around that by doing: param[40] = 100; (100 = 1, 150 = 1.5, etc.) 14:26:32 <planetmaker> ok... so param[40] = ... ^ 14:26:38 <Yexo> item(FEAT_TRAINS, KirbyPaulTankSteam, 0) { property { cost_factor: 7*param[40]/100; } } 14:26:43 <planetmaker> ^ 14:26:45 <planetmaker> :-) 14:27:32 * andythenorth_ has two releases to do :0 14:32:08 <AveiMil> hm, on this line: item(FEAT_TRAINS, KirbyPaulTankSteam, 0) { property { cost_factor: 7*param[10]/100; } } 14:32:10 <AveiMil> I get error: nmlc: "input", line 30: Syntax error, unexpected token "item" 14:33:04 <Yexo> the line before that has an error 14:33:11 <Yexo> probably you forgot the semicolon 14:33:40 <AveiMil> you are brilliant 14:34:27 <planetmaker> just seen that too often ;-) 14:34:58 <AveiMil> Well that works perfectly 14:35:08 <AveiMil> now it's easy to play-test with different values 14:35:23 <planetmaker> :-) 14:35:41 <planetmaker> AveiMil: make use of 'reloadnewgrfs' in the console 14:36:01 <AveiMil> then I don't need to create a new game? 14:36:04 <planetmaker> yes 14:36:08 <AveiMil> nice 14:36:23 <planetmaker> just copy your updated newgrf over the existing one and use that console command 14:36:32 <AveiMil> yeah, my build.cmd does that 14:36:38 <planetmaker> :-) 14:36:51 <AveiMil> xcopy "%ProjectDir%%ProjectNMLDir%%ProjectNMLFile%.grf" "%OpenTDDDataDir%" /Y 14:36:51 <AveiMil> :D 14:36:51 <planetmaker> my makefile does that for me :-P 14:36:56 <planetmaker> make install 14:36:57 <AveiMil> ah 14:37:21 <planetmaker> and it would / should work for everyone, independent of OS 14:42:01 <Alberth> except some OSes don't provide 'make' by default 14:42:33 <Hirundo> Some quite popular OSes sold by M$? 14:42:56 <planetmaker> Alberth: unfortunately yes 14:43:12 <planetmaker> those are also known to be quite slow when running that 14:43:13 <Alberth> could be, it has always been beyond me how you can do actual work at such systems :p 14:43:24 <planetmaker> And ... I actually thought to complement the project by a set of bat files 14:43:32 <mikl> planetmaker: mm, not sure what you mean, it's not me that created the recipe :) 14:44:07 <Alberth> planetmaker: just give them a linux install DVD instead :p 14:44:11 <planetmaker> mikl: I have even no idea what file format that is and what purpose it serves. I've never seen that before 14:45:06 <mikl> planetmaker: it's a recipe for an open source package manager for Mac OS X called homebrew that builds OpenTTD :) 14:45:19 <planetmaker> ah. Never heart of that 14:45:21 <Alberth> I once saw a game that listed 'linux' as a install dependency :) 14:45:31 <planetmaker> mikl: what about rather creating a macports package? 14:45:41 <planetmaker> haha @ Alberth :-) 14:46:22 <mikl> planetmaker: I think there is one already. I donât use Macports, though :) 14:46:34 <planetmaker> there's none I know... 14:47:59 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:49:44 <Jolteon> Hm, is it possible to make towns stop building bridges ridiculous lengths to 'nearby' land? 14:49:49 <AveiMil> item(FEAT_TRAINS, KirbyPaulTankSteam, 0) { property { cost_factor: 7*param[10]/100; running_cost_factor: 50*param[20]/100; } } 14:49:52 <AveiMil> I can do that on 1 line? 14:50:06 <AveiMil> (adding running_cost using the same method) 14:50:09 <planetmaker> I think so. But why not make it readable 14:50:32 <AveiMil> think this is best way to read it, otherwise there's sooo many lines per engine 14:50:37 <planetmaker> if you defined both param[10] and param[20] before 14:50:47 <AveiMil> yes 14:50:48 <planetmaker> AveiMil: yes. one per property 14:50:55 <planetmaker> that's the best readable you can get 14:50:59 <planetmaker> many lines per engine don't hurt 14:51:10 <AveiMil> it depends, since all the lines are the same 14:51:16 <AveiMil> there's no need to have many lines per engine 14:51:23 <planetmaker> oh well. 14:51:23 <AveiMil> it's easier to get an overview by having it on 1 line 14:51:33 <AveiMil> maybe if you have different properties or all and stuff 14:51:37 * planetmaker disagrees, but not me who looses overview 14:51:38 <AveiMil> then it's better to split 14:53:06 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has joined #openttd 14:58:59 <mikl> planetmaker: now its on the Wiki if anyoneâs interested. Works great on my Mac: http://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_Mac#Using_Homebrew :) 15:00:01 <planetmaker> I would have preferred to not have it as the first choice... I'll redirect all support requests to you, ok? 15:01:15 <mikl> well, it is certainly the easiest option, but feel free to rearrange 15:02:18 <planetmaker> well. I'll refer all people with problems to you. Can you give me your e-mail for that? :-) 15:03:41 <AveiMil> Did someone mention taht running_cost value can max be 255? 15:04:37 <Hirundo> That's what the documentation says 15:05:50 <planetmaker> :-O what a nice advice... 15:06:06 <planetmaker> "to avoid using sudo when installing packages, change the owner recursively on /usr/local directory 15:06:08 <planetmaker> sudo chown -R `whoami` /usr/local" 15:06:15 <AveiMil> http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml/raw-file/tip/docs/refs.html#refs-basecost-table <- why is there no PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_ELECTRIC for monorail or maglev? those are considered electric? 15:06:23 <Alberth> very nice :p 15:07:23 * planetmaker isn't impressed to find that on the 3rd page of the 'homebrew' page directly 15:07:39 <planetmaker> as piece of official advice how to handle that system 15:09:54 <planetmaker> omfg 15:09:57 <planetmaker> "We recommend you delete /usr/local/include and /usr/local/lib" 15:10:14 <planetmaker> those pages are highly dangerous to those who don't know 15:10:40 <mikl> planetmaker: not neccesarily. Mac OS X does not ship anything in /usr/local/ 15:10:58 <planetmaker> so what? 15:11:09 <planetmaker> The worse is the advice to 'just' delete it 15:11:17 <mikl> so people who don't know will likely not have anything in those folders 15:11:19 <planetmaker> Because - if they're there - they're there for a reason 15:12:01 <Qantourisc> Didn't knew therer where jerks in openttd 15:12:04 <Qantourisc> i ques there are 15:12:33 <Alberth> unfortunately, yes 15:13:07 <Qantourisc> So a password on your company is required 15:13:10 <Qantourisc> *cheeze* 15:13:22 <Qantourisc> you'd think peaple in a constructive game would be well 15:13:25 <Qantourisc> constructive 15:13:42 <planetmaker> mikl: all this and other changes suggested there make be believe that all advice on the homebrew pages are at best dangerious and malicous at worst. 15:13:58 <planetmaker> those may work for one person, but NEVER can be considered general advice 15:14:16 <planetmaker> especially none given to people who do NOT know the internals 15:14:45 <AveiMil> reloadnewgrfs <- error command not found 15:14:58 <planetmaker> AveiMil: you might need to enable the newgrf_developer_tools 15:15:10 <planetmaker> set newgrf_developer_tools 1 15:15:12 <planetmaker> in the console 15:16:24 <AveiMil> ty 15:16:47 <AveiMil> unknown setting it says 15:17:30 <mikl> planetmaker: well, they are hardly malicious, but I see your point 15:18:08 <Alberth> AveiMil: you need a nightly for that setting I think 15:20:33 <mikl> planetmaker: they do say "If in doubt, donât delete this stuff, but be aware that this may cause build issues." right below that headline though :) 15:21:00 <planetmaker> AveiMil: oh, yes. You need a nightly for those goodies 15:21:36 <planetmaker> mikl: excuse me, but I added a strong warning to our page where homebrew is linked. I fear for our users. 15:23:07 <mikl> planetmaker: well, as I said earlier, you can't break OS X by deleting /usr/local 15:23:26 <mikl> but you could ostensibly break software that you have build manually using gcc 15:23:57 <Yexo> <AveiMil> why is there no PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_ELECTRIC for monorail or maglev? those are considered electric? <- yes, monorail and maglev trains use the PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_ELECTRIC base 15:26:08 <planetmaker> mikl: just so much: you have no clue how much on my system would break, if I just deleted /usr/local 15:26:38 <planetmaker> I might still be able to boot. But I'd not stop swearing before sunset 15:27:15 <planetmaker> and "being able to boot" is not the same as "safe advice" 15:27:42 <planetmaker> it's the same as advising to delete everything in /Users 15:28:00 <planetmaker> it's save. You'll still be able to boot. Oh well 15:28:27 <mikl> planetmaker: that's ridiculous. The average OS X user is unlikely to have anything of value in /usr/local 15:28:36 <mikl> you can hardly say the same for /Users 15:29:02 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 15:29:05 <planetmaker> it is the same savety level, though 15:30:10 <Alberth> it is a clear sign they think they own /usr/local that is something they should NEVER consider imho 15:30:29 <planetmaker> yep 15:32:32 <planetmaker> which actually is a sign to stop reading on immediately :-) 15:33:03 <Qantourisc> hmm ECS makes the game a "litle" to complicated :) 15:33:08 <Qantourisc> something in between to start out with ? 15:33:27 <Yexo> firs? not sure how difficult that is though 15:33:38 <Qantourisc> rigt firs 15:33:41 * Qantourisc fergot 15:33:59 <Yexo> you could also try pbi, but I'm not sure if you can disable the stockpile limits in that set 15:34:21 <mikl> Alberth, planetmaker well, I don't think that this is such a huge issue, but I have better things to do than try to convince you otherwise :) 15:34:51 <planetmaker> you will fail 15:35:02 <planetmaker> as there's no argument in your favour 15:35:09 *** TheMask96 [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:35:21 * Alberth agrees 15:37:10 <Alberth> eh, Pathzilla is building trams! 15:38:29 <Qantourisc> 1.1.0 ? 15:38:39 <mikl> well, I would probably fail, but not necessarily for lack of arguments ;) 15:38:54 <Alberth> Yexo, Qantourisc: FIRS is very nice, no stockpile limits, no industries disappearing by default, you just get a little lost with all the new cargoes and industries 15:39:08 <Qantourisc> i get lost over the version error :) 15:39:13 <mikl> but this meta-argument is boring, I'd rather build some railroads :) 15:39:13 <Yexo> I know firs :) 15:39:17 <Yexo> just pbi not that well 15:39:46 <Yexo> Qantourisc: it means you need a nigthly 15:39:51 <Qantourisc> a ok 15:39:54 * Qantourisc checks out 15:41:28 <andythenorth_> you can't disable stockpile limits in PBI 15:41:36 <andythenorth_> Pikka considers 'evil' a core feature :D 15:42:13 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 15:43:01 <planetmaker> where is in the code the generation of the train purchase list? 15:43:13 <planetmaker> I'm searching it somehow in vain currently... 15:43:45 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:54 <planetmaker> hm... vehicle_gui.cpp I guess 15:45:59 <Yexo> build_vehicle_gui.cpp I think 15:46:44 <planetmaker> hm, that sounds better :-) 15:46:50 <Yexo> starting at line 906 to be exact 15:46:54 <planetmaker> thank you 15:50:58 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:52:48 <AveiMil> http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml/raw-file/tip/docs/refs.html#refs-basecost-table <- Where can I get the cost and running cost information for the busses and trucks? 15:56:00 <Yexo> decode it from http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/file/f801f9246c35/src/table/engines.h 15:56:36 <Yexo> or if you mean the base cost: PR_RUNNING_ROADVEH is used for both trucks and busses 15:57:39 <AveiMil> i meant the induvidual ones 15:59:36 <Yexo> http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/file/f801f9246c35/src/table/engines.h#l634 see this 16:00:59 <Alberth> I aplogize, I could not help myself :) 16:01:18 <AveiMil> damn, that's a lot to go through :P 16:02:13 <planetmaker> Alberth: may I now be disappointed as I gave the link already? ;-) 16:02:45 <Yexo> planetmaker: did you really expect him to remember that? :p 16:02:52 <planetmaker> :-P 16:03:02 <AveiMil> now that I see it I remember it 16:03:03 <AveiMil> :P 16:03:04 <planetmaker> actually I gave the link to the svn repository instead of hg 16:03:14 <AveiMil> too much new info :( 16:03:25 <Yexo> I know, but your link dropped from my irc history, and personally I always use the hg webinterface 16:03:29 <Alberth> yeah, that was a different repo :) 16:03:52 <AveiMil> Comedy cars, is taht toyland? 16:04:15 <AveiMil> looks like it 16:04:38 <AveiMil> who plays with toyland really? 16:04:39 <AveiMil> lol 16:04:40 <Alberth> Ploddyphut MkI Bus is toyland 16:04:46 * Alberth does 16:04:47 <planetmaker> Alberth: Toy-land with hyphen? 16:05:10 <AveiMil> Why do you like toyland? 16:05:34 <planetmaker> and... why sub-arctic if we use arctic everywhere else? 16:05:34 <Alberth> nice colourful industries / vehicles 16:05:41 <planetmaker> AveiMil: because it's nice! 16:05:50 <frosch123> it has detailed animations 16:05:57 <Alberth> planetmaker: will fix it 16:06:07 <AveiMil> o.O 16:06:16 <frosch123> and because i like to transport 600 bags of sweets :p 16:06:28 <frosch123> AveiMil: of course we are only playing with ogfx 16:06:33 <planetmaker> :-) 16:07:04 <planetmaker> and transporting toys... is nice, too. Especially in the winter months 16:07:14 <AveiMil> hehe 16:07:18 <planetmaker> hm... me suddenly has a Christmas game idea 16:10:43 <andythenorth_> Christmas newgrf? 16:10:51 <AveiMil> hmm, before I start doing this which will probably take quite a bit of time my way, can any of you bright minds look at this and see fi there's an easier method to do the same thing I've done for trains with trucks? http://www.aveimil.com/misc/temp.txt 16:11:55 *** saronpasu [~saronpasu@catv075-208.lan-do.ne.jp] has joined #openttd 16:11:59 <andythenorth_> planetmaker: some inspiration :) http://shop.lego.com/ByTheme/Product.aspx?p=10216&cn=61&d=100 16:12:03 <andythenorth_> http://shop.lego.com/ByTheme/Product.aspx?p=10199&cn=61&d=100 16:12:20 <andythenorth_> http://shop.lego.com/ByTheme/Product.aspx?p=40010&cn=61 16:12:33 <planetmaker> thanks Alberth for that documentation update :-) 16:13:19 <Qantourisc> can i specifiy the datadir from cli ? 16:13:30 <Qantourisc> the makefile agains are pain in the bum (like all make files) 16:13:41 <Alberth> I was waiting for a game to progress through 10+ years, so I had some idle time :) 16:14:24 *** Tennel [~Tennel@88.150.10.194] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 16:14:39 <andythenorth_> hmm 16:14:42 * andythenorth_ is stumped 16:14:56 <andythenorth_> how to have cb36 fire in the buy menu 16:15:03 <andythenorth_> whilst using cargo FF 16:15:11 <andythenorth_> and also not replicating varaction2 16:15:27 <Alberth> Qantourisc: ./openttd -h doesn't give that option, but you can make a softlink in the data dir (I think) 16:15:47 <Qantourisc> you can yes 16:15:51 <AveiMil> did anyone look at http://www.aveimil.com/misc/temp.txt? 16:15:54 <Qantourisc> if one know where that dir is 16:15:56 <frosch123> andythenorth_: mulitple varact2 can reference to the same varact2 16:16:11 <frosch123> so you can have ff and default cargochains, which merge later for cb36 16:16:14 <andythenorth_> they'd need to return different graphics results though 16:16:21 <andythenorth_> I have some code from DJ Nekkid 16:16:26 <andythenorth_> it checks vehicle length 16:16:49 <frosch123> using unavailable variables is going to break somewhen 16:18:20 <andythenorth_> is there a better way? 16:18:27 <andythenorth_> can I just check the cargo? 16:18:31 <andythenorth_> or is that too obvious :P 16:18:44 <frosch123> no, the cargotype gives you the default cargo 16:19:13 <frosch123> as i said, you can merge varct2 chains later, you do not have to duplicate the whole chain for purchase list 16:19:53 <andythenorth_> I am failing to see how? 16:20:09 <andythenorth_> hmm 16:20:14 <andythenorth_> I see at least one way 16:20:36 <andythenorth_> two varacts handling cbs 16:20:48 <frosch123> yes 16:22:42 <Qantourisc> weird INSTALL_DATA_DIR is configured correctly now, but still no go 16:24:06 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@ip-89-102-137-248.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 16:25:42 <planetmaker> AveiMil: as I said... it's hardly visible what you do with the single engines due to your formating 16:26:27 <planetmaker> param[10] = 100; // Steam Engines Purchase Cost (150 = 50% more expensive) <-- I'd write that comment as "in % of the default purchase cost" 16:28:25 <AveiMil> mm 16:28:46 <Qantourisc> halelouja ... 16:28:50 <Qantourisc> bring the debuggers ! 16:29:35 <AveiMil> but to do this with trucks as well 16:29:40 <AveiMil> I just have to start doing it manually? 16:30:47 <AveiMil> and about the formatting it's very simple in my head, each line is one engine and each line does the same really, so it's easy to view 16:30:59 <AveiMil> if you know what's on 1 line, you know the others 16:31:37 <Qantourisc> What was the program one could use to watch a porgrams kernel calls again ? 16:31:56 <Qantourisc> strace 16:36:26 <Qantourisc> now i need the base set 16:36:30 <Qantourisc> cause i miss a few sprites 16:36:33 <Qantourisc> or can i ignore that? 16:37:29 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-24-143.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:39:25 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-55-59.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 16:39:28 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 16:55:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r21101 /trunk/src/engine.cpp: -Doc: Additions and clarifications of doxygen comments 16:55:39 <Qantourisc> in FIPS what is a "store" ? 16:56:15 <Qantourisc> nvm accepts food :D 16:56:19 <andythenorth_> some kind of shop 16:56:34 <andythenorth_> right now there's only one kind 16:56:37 <andythenorth_> in future there'll be more 16:56:47 <Qantourisc> so not town ? 16:56:56 <andythenorth_> yes in town 16:57:06 <andythenorth_> but provided as an industry not a house - for various reasons 16:57:23 <andythenorth_> there could be more layouts for it in future, but depends on this: 16:57:23 <andythenorth_> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4131?string=cb28&project=1&type%5B0%5D=&sev%5B0%5D=&pri%5B0%5D=&due%5B0%5D=&reported%5B0%5D=&cat%5B0%5D=&status%5B0%5D=open&percent%5B0%5D=&opened=&dev=&closed=&duedatefrom=&duedateto=&changedfrom=&changedto=&openedfrom=&openedto=&closedfrom=&closedto= 16:58:34 * Qantourisc confused 16:58:43 <Qantourisc> if i got a but-load of "tons of food" where to put them ? 16:58:59 <planetmaker> into that store? 16:59:06 <andythenorth_> what climate are you playing? 16:59:18 <Qantourisc> temperance or how it is called 16:59:22 <andythenorth_> send them to the store 16:59:30 <Qantourisc> the "first" one 17:00:00 <Qantourisc> omg found it 17:00:04 <Qantourisc> they are hard to spot :D 17:00:09 <Qantourisc> has to use the map to find them 17:00:12 <Qantourisc> nvm :) thx 17:00:33 <andythenorth_> one of the reasons they are an industry is that at least then they appear on the map :) 17:01:56 <Qantourisc> I think i got more then i barganded for :) 17:02:07 <Qantourisc> FIPS is not super easy :D 17:02:12 <andythenorth_> not currently 17:02:23 <planetmaker> did anyone claim so? 17:02:27 <andythenorth_> in future we'll give the option for an easier version 17:02:31 <Qantourisc> :) 17:02:39 <Qantourisc> now doubting between normal or FIPS 17:02:57 <andythenorth_> FIRS webpage here helps a bit http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/industries?economy=point_5_release 17:03:14 <andythenorth_> I'd play normal until you're bored of it 17:03:24 <andythenorth_> then try PBI or FIRS 17:03:30 <andythenorth_> it helps make the game interesting for longer 17:03:34 <Qantourisc> ok 17:03:43 <andythenorth_> play all three climates - the industries are different 17:03:48 <andythenorth_> don't play Toyland though :P 17:03:54 <Qantourisc> jrjr :) 17:05:37 *** mode/#openttd [+v Yexo] by ChanServ 17:05:37 *** mode/#openttd [+v Alberth] by ChanServ 17:05:37 *** mode/#openttd [+v orudge] by ChanServ 17:05:40 *** mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ 17:05:49 <Qantourisc> This time i'm going to make a master plan :D 17:06:29 <Terkhen> toyland is awesome :P 17:08:36 <planetmaker> <3 toyland :-) 17:08:53 *** Chrill [Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 17:09:26 <andythenorth_> toyland -1 17:10:08 <Terkhen> :) 17:10:16 <andythenorth_> :o 17:10:20 <andythenorth_> FIRS doesn't work in toyland 17:11:02 <planetmaker> wow... arctic engines really have A LOT of tractive effort 17:12:14 <andythenorth_> hmm 17:12:24 <andythenorth_> toyland is quite pretty - apart from the ground tiles :P 17:12:31 <Jolteon> s/pretty/ugly 17:12:51 <Qantourisc> How do you guys plan your main line ? 17:12:53 <Qantourisc> or don't ? 17:13:13 <planetmaker> andythenorth_: play it with opengfx 17:13:15 *** enr1x [~kiike@171.224.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 17:13:48 <Terkhen> yeah, I never was able to play on toyland without getting a headache before opengfx 17:13:52 <Jolteon> You know what i'd like to see? I'd like to see the menu screen vary in landscape. 17:14:06 <Jolteon> Like alternate from temperate to arctic to tropical. 17:15:34 <planetmaker> make a newgrf 17:16:01 <planetmaker> or do you mean the title game? 17:16:35 <Jolteon> I mean the 'game' that plays in the background of the menu when you first open the game. 17:16:39 <Jolteon> Kinda bland how its always the same. 17:17:08 <planetmaker> Jolteon: make a new one for the 1.1 release. The competition is up and running 17:17:16 <Jolteon> Eh, no point. 17:17:21 <Alberth> Qantourisc: I never plan a main line, I build a lot of unconnected lines 17:17:24 <Jolteon> From what i've seen, it'll be temperate based, no matter what. 17:17:36 <Qantourisc> Alberth: also a plan :) 17:17:36 <planetmaker> aha. 17:17:39 <Jolteon> I just think it'd be nice if the game alternated between 3 different ones, in different regions. 17:17:55 <Jolteon> or even the exact same game, just a different region. 17:18:33 <Alberth> Qantourisc: although if you connect everything to one line, it looks very impressive :) 17:18:38 <planetmaker> now it gets boring with an attitude of "I can't be bothered to even make a submission for a good new title game" :-( 17:18:42 <Qantourisc> :) 17:19:01 <planetmaker> but at the same time wanting FOUR of them being present 17:19:07 <Jolteon> three. 17:19:18 <Jolteon> The day OpenTTD advertises toyland to any amount is the day I quit it. 17:19:25 <planetmaker> good bye :-) 17:19:27 <Jolteon> Ridiculous thing, should be bombed :p 17:19:37 <Alberth> Jolteon: that can be arranged :) 17:19:42 <Jolteon> Was Chris Sawyer drunk when he thought of it? :p 17:20:21 <Jolteon> planetmaker; I can't be 'bothered' cause I know full well it won't get chosen. 17:20:29 <Jolteon> A) It won't be temperate, B) I'm not that good of a player. 17:21:12 <planetmaker> I don't know where you get your premises from 17:21:27 <planetmaker> I can't judge B) - but why do you think A) holds? 17:21:53 <Jolteon> Temperate is the mode most people play, its logical to assume OpenTTD devs will chose it over another, as it advertises the game to a more broader range of players. 17:22:18 <Jolteon> that, and i've never actually seen an OpenTTD opening game thats not temperate anyway, so why break with tradition? 17:22:30 <planetmaker> btw, Alberth, did you say earlier that TE is not displayed with original acceleration? 17:22:43 <andythenorth_> Jolteon: you are really rather wrong :P 17:22:49 <andythenorth_> go look at the title screen 17:22:50 <Alberth> I did 17:23:05 <Jolteon> I have done, multiple times. Every time I play the game. 17:23:08 <planetmaker> hm... 17:23:14 <Jolteon> I know everything there is to know about it, andythenorth_. 17:23:21 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:23:24 <andythenorth_> how come you're so wrong then? 17:23:34 <Jolteon> Well, what is it i'm missing? 17:23:39 <planetmaker> [18:21] <Jolteon> Temperate is the mode most people play, its logical to assume OpenTTD devs will chose it over another, as it advertises the game to a more broader range of players. <-- just as the last year we'll put it to public vote 17:23:49 <Terkhen> oh, we get to choose the title game now? 17:23:49 <Alberth> Jolteon: I gues I am not a dev then 17:23:53 <Jolteon> I drop my case then. 17:23:55 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 17:23:59 <planetmaker> Terkhen: as last year? yes 17:24:01 <Jolteon> It'll definately be temperate, planetmaker. 17:24:09 <Jolteon> If not, i'll donate £25 to the openTTD project. 17:24:14 <Alberth> planetmaker: nope, users voted 17:24:17 <Jolteon> That is how sure I am the public will vote a temperate :> 17:24:35 <planetmaker> Alberth: well. I think we can vote, too. Just our vote is not more important ;-) 17:24:42 <planetmaker> The only one, probably, who cannot vote, is me 17:24:45 <planetmaker> this year 17:24:50 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:24:53 <Jolteon> Why not? :p 17:24:58 <planetmaker> I run the competition 17:24:59 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 17:25:03 <Qantourisc> Ps what weight modifier do you guys use ? 17:25:04 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:25:06 * andythenorth_ must be blind 17:25:19 <Terkhen> I would submit one, but you are discriminating against toyland :( 17:25:23 <planetmaker> I'd not be trustworthy if I then announce my favourite the winner 17:25:23 <Alberth> Qantourisc: 5 to 10 :) 17:25:39 <Qantourisc> depends on how flat it is i assume ? 17:25:41 <planetmaker> Terkhen: I definitely don't. And actually... please submit toyland! :-) 17:25:44 <Alberth> I know it is insane :) 17:25:48 <Jolteon> planetmaker: Nah, why not? Its fair to assume you'd only vote once, like everyone else, and wouldn't jynx it. 17:25:49 <Terkhen> :D 17:25:49 <andythenorth_> the current title game is Arctic right? 17:25:51 <Qantourisc> Alberth: i'm using 10 :D 17:25:51 <Jolteon> (or tamper :p) 17:25:53 <andythenorth_> I'm not smoking crack? 17:26:12 <andythenorth_> I mean, I can see fricking snow in it 17:26:15 <Terkhen> there is snow so yes 17:26:24 <Terkhen> and a food train 17:26:27 <andythenorth_> so Jolteon must be smoking crack :P 17:26:34 <andythenorth_> :D 17:26:34 <Jolteon> Terkhen: Snow? 17:26:34 *** sandro [~sandro@93.177.182.169] has joined #openttd 17:26:34 <planetmaker> and donate 25 pounds :-) 17:26:38 <Jolteon> Not on the resolution I use. 17:26:52 <Jolteon> (1440x900, and 1024 x....something else on the laptop) 17:26:55 <planetmaker> Jolteon: still... the original one is since r0 arctic 17:27:01 <planetmaker> very good point :-) 17:27:05 <planetmaker> möööp 17:27:23 * andythenorth_ accepts that opengfx toyland looks nice 17:27:23 <Chrill> möööp 17:27:26 <planetmaker> and snow even shows on 640x480 window I currently have open 17:27:32 <Jolteon> planetmaker: Where? o.o 17:27:33 <planetmaker> just not on the stable one 17:27:37 <Terkhen> there is a small patch of snow in the top left corner even in 640x480 17:27:44 <sandro> Where should you download it from Chris Sawyer Locomotion? 17:27:44 <planetmaker> in the nightlies. The current stable is the first with temperate 17:27:44 <Terkhen> so that one should be shown in all resolutions 17:27:59 <sandro> Where should you download it from Chris Sawyer Locomotion 17:28:02 <Terkhen> nightlies and all stables except 1.0.x 17:28:12 <Jolteon> sandro: You should pay from it. 17:28:14 *** enr1x [~kiike@171.224.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: awesome /is/ awesome] 17:28:18 <Jolteon> From all good shops, and eBay. 17:28:26 <planetmaker> sandro: wrong channel 17:28:51 <sandro> I have no money 17:29:03 <planetmaker> bad luck. Then don't play games which cost money 17:29:16 <Jolteon> sandro: then I recommend OpenTTD. 17:29:18 <Jolteon> Its free! 17:29:26 <planetmaker> ^ 17:29:29 <Jolteon> Also, I declare myself blind. Where is this snow? http://ft.fckitupload.com/YxS/snowo.o.GIF 17:29:30 <sandro> yes free 17:29:33 <planetmaker> and might even be ontopic here 17:29:50 <sandro> thank you 17:29:58 <planetmaker> Jolteon: as we said: except 1.0.x 17:30:06 <Jolteon> o.o 17:30:08 <Jolteon> You did, where? D: 17:30:12 <sandro> no 17:30:18 <Jolteon> andythenorth_ is right, someone must be feeding me crack. 17:30:18 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2F8F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:30:22 <Terkhen> :D 17:30:24 <sandro> no thank you 17:30:26 <andythenorth_> bah 17:30:26 <Jolteon> sandro: We will not support warez. Buy it. 17:30:31 <andythenorth_> never argue about software :P 17:30:38 <andythenorth_> someone else might have a different version :( 17:31:20 <andythenorth_> Jolteon is right 17:31:31 <Jolteon> ...i am? 17:31:43 <andythenorth_> well you have temperate 17:31:43 <Jolteon> what about? o.o 17:31:45 <Jolteon> yay. 17:31:51 <andythenorth_> I don't :{ 17:31:55 <Jolteon> I thought I was going blind xD 17:32:44 <planetmaker> Jolteon: [18:28] <Terkhen> nightlies and all stables except 1.0.x 17:32:48 <sandro> You want to train tr2009 17:33:18 <sandro> me time 21:34 17:33:20 <Jolteon> planetmaker: er, i thought the current stables were 1.0.*, hence the 'current' ones i was talking about? 17:33:23 <planetmaker> @kban sandro we don't trade with warez 17:33:24 *** mode/#openttd [+b *!~sandro@93.177.182.169] by DorpsGek 17:33:24 *** sandro was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [we don't trade with warez] 17:33:59 <planetmaker> sorry. I've seen that guy before with the same attitude 17:35:33 <Jolteon> also wow, toyland is actually not inducing a seizure. First time i've played it with openGFX :p 17:37:22 <Terkhen> once that you fix the crazy ground tiles, it is fun to play 17:37:33 <planetmaker> Jolteon: http://www.openttd.org/en/screenshot/Nightlies/newgrf_config 17:37:40 <planetmaker> ^ screenshot from current nightlies 17:37:54 *** TGV [~TGV@93.177.182.169] has joined #openttd 17:38:02 <Jolteon> planetmaker: ah/. 17:38:05 <Jolteon> fairynuff :p 17:38:08 <TGV> hey 17:38:16 <Jolteon> I'll still give you guys £25 if the public vote for a non-temperate though :p 17:38:19 <planetmaker> and that's the same game as since... at least three years, Jolteon ;-) 17:38:37 <Terkhen> hi TGV 17:38:45 <planetmaker> Jolteon: then make a good-looking non-temperate game please :-) 17:38:49 <planetmaker> Or maybe you have one... 17:39:00 <planetmaker> salut TGV 17:39:01 <TGV> hi 17:39:23 <Jolteon> planetmaker: 'nice' is not a word I know of. I do what works for the moment and cash I have :p 17:39:51 <planetmaker> he 17:39:51 <Jolteon> and it usually results in a lot of mess and spaghetti junction style stuff. 17:39:57 <planetmaker> cash is no issue ever ;-) 17:39:57 <Qantourisc> lol 10times weight :) top speed: 144, actual speed with load ?: 45 :D 17:40:05 <Jolteon> planetmaker: Is if you cheat :p 17:40:09 <Jolteon> don't, also 17:40:37 <TGV> me time 21:40 17:40:54 <planetmaker> Jolteon: you may for the title game. But after 8 ingame years there's no money issue, if you set up one decent route or so 17:41:04 <planetmaker> ... 17:41:11 <TGV> me name sandro 17:41:13 <Jolteon> planetmaker; I think your friend is back. 17:41:23 <planetmaker> I figured as much, TGV 17:41:29 <TGV> ? 17:41:30 * Jolteon smirks from the corner. 17:42:11 <Jolteon> So what is the title game, planetmaker? Is it just a saved game OpenTTD loads as it loads the game and plays in the background? 17:42:16 <planetmaker> I'll be much more thorough with my next ban. This channel is about OpenTTD. And any questions for wares or downloads for other games will result in an instant ban. 17:42:30 <planetmaker> Jolteon: yes 17:42:44 <planetmaker> It's called opntitle.dat 17:42:50 <TGV> Because I wanted to 17:43:02 <planetmaker> TGV: I care very little about that 17:43:10 <Jolteon> So what, is it a full saved game, or just a good bit that was cut out and shoved into a .dat file? 17:43:20 <TGV> no little 17:43:23 <planetmaker> Jolteon: it's a full savegame 17:43:31 <Jolteon> ah, interesting. 17:43:36 <planetmaker> just rename any savegame you like and copy it over your existing opntitle.dat 17:43:55 <planetmaker> Just mind that newgrfs might make issues, should you not have them. Same with AIs 17:44:07 <planetmaker> So the general rule is: No newgrfs, no AIs 17:44:12 <TGV> Who wants this game ts2009 17:44:23 <TGV> TS2009 17:44:34 <planetmaker> @kban *!*@93.177.182.169 17:44:34 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Error: *!*@93.177.182.169 is not in #openttd. 17:44:47 *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*@93.177.182.169] by planetmaker 17:44:49 <planetmaker> @kick TGV 17:44:50 *** TGV was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [planetmaker] 17:45:25 <planetmaker> this ban will work much longer ;-) 17:46:08 <Jolteon> Hm. I might play about then, cheers. 17:46:27 <planetmaker> I've not been talking in suaheli or so to him, right? 17:46:58 *** fjb is now known as Guest4 17:46:59 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFD35C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:48:32 *** ogre [~ogre@par69-2-82-224-40-212.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ouais bah a plus ouais c'est ça] 17:52:18 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:54:07 *** Guest4 [~frank@p5DDFD180.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:54:36 <AveiMil> planetmaker, do you like the formating better now? http://www.aveimil.com/misc/temp.txt 17:54:45 *** Chrill [Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [] 17:56:15 <planetmaker> yes. But I'd align the numbers. And consistently use indentation by tab or space for indentation 17:59:19 <planetmaker> hm... 17:59:52 <AveiMil> my notepad2 is set to insert space for tab 18:00:33 *** Kles [~jdwh@bas3-london14-1096778500.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:02:40 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:04:59 <AveiMil> damn now I sitll have the ships and airplanes to do 18:07:11 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:08:40 *** TheMask96 [martijn@lust.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 18:11:01 *** saronpasu [~saronpasu@catv075-208.lan-do.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:11:33 *** KritiK_ [~Maxim@95-26-18-188.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 18:16:27 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-24-4.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:16:29 *** KritiK_ is now known as KritiK 18:22:38 *** avdg [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:23:09 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: more listen, more understand, more know] 18:23:23 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2F8F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:24:55 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2F6D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:24:57 *** kenneth [kenneth@cpc1-nrte13-0-0-cust531.8-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:27:02 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 18:38:17 *** benoit [~benoit@main.goulp.net] has joined #openttd 18:38:30 <benoit> Hi 18:42:41 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 18:45:20 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21102 /trunk/src/lang/malay.txt: 18:45:20 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:20 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: malay - 39 changes by rionix88 18:46:18 *** benoit [~benoit@main.goulp.net] has left #openttd [Quitte] 18:49:09 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:50:29 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 18:50:52 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8813.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:51:37 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 18:53:48 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:11:40 *** holyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 19:18:09 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:52:40 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db186b0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: reboot] 19:54:13 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db186b0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:12:03 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r21103 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Change: Use the same sorting of the sorting criteria for both trains and road vehicles 20:12:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r21104 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Doc: Add doxygen commands to a few functions 20:14:11 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-86-49-8-184.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:14:21 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.224] has joined #openttd 20:15:26 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-86-49-8-184.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 20:16:11 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-200.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 20:16:26 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-18-188.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:19:34 <avdg> is there a reason why obj-c files shouldn't be parsed by doxygen? *just asking* 20:20:14 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r21105 /trunk/src/ (build_vehicle_gui.cpp lang/english.txt): -Feature-ish: Allow to sort purchase lists for trains and road vehicles by tractive effort 20:23:34 *** Wolf03 [~wolf01@host153-160-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 20:23:34 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest14 20:23:34 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01 20:24:53 <__ln__> hello Wolf01..3 20:27:45 *** Guest14 [~wolf01@host71-15-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:28:45 *** saronpasu [~saronpasu@catv075-208.lan-do.ne.jp] has joined #openttd 20:28:56 <Rubidium> avdg: Bjarni didn't add it 20:29:27 <avdg> :p 20:30:07 *** Wolf03 [~wolf01@host168-234-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 20:30:08 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest16 20:30:08 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01 20:31:35 *** Guest16 [~wolf01@host153-160-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:33:58 <Chris_Booth> evening all 20:34:42 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.9.61] has joined #openttd 20:42:36 <planetmaker> hm, I should translate my own string... 20:44:45 *** saronpasu [~saronpasu@catv075-208.lan-do.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:53:40 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-86-49-8-184.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:01:11 *** Chris_Booth_ [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:07:51 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:19:44 *** holyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Quit: Forlater kanalen] 21:19:47 <AveiMil> Helps! 21:19:48 <AveiMil> nmlc: "input", line 250: Unknown property name: max_speed 21:19:53 <AveiMil> What's the correct property name? 21:20:01 <AveiMil> I got max_speed from http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/table/engines.h?rev=21100 21:22:00 <planetmaker> you might rather want to check the nml documentation 21:22:03 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 21:22:20 <AveiMil> it dosent' say the properties for airplanes 21:22:24 <AveiMil> only for train engines 21:22:36 <AveiMil> speed (km/h) 21:22:39 <AveiMil> so perhaps only 'speed'? 21:22:45 <planetmaker> perhaps 21:23:02 <planetmaker> I know that it talks about properties common to all vehicles 21:23:12 <planetmaker> then about trains. then rv, then ships then planes 21:24:38 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:24:39 <AveiMil> it was 'speed' 21:24:54 <planetmaker> yes :-) 21:28:09 <planetmaker> please keep such questions also in the public channel. Others might be able to answer that when I'm not around. And others might want to know the answers, too 21:28:21 <AveiMil> aye 21:28:38 <AveiMil> just noticed the channel was dead for a while, hoping a pm would notify you with sound or something :D 21:28:46 <planetmaker> especially the latter saves to answer the same question(s) more often ;-) 21:29:44 <AveiMil> PR_BUILD_WAYPOINT_BUOY <- BUOY? 21:30:02 <planetmaker> andythenorth_: does http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/openttd-custom-ha885a25fM-OSX.dmg work for you? 21:30:05 <Terkhen> highlighting should be enough for that :) 21:31:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.203.208] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:32:12 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.203.208] has joined #openttd 21:32:48 <AveiMil> ? 21:33:01 <planetmaker> dictionary? 21:34:26 <planetmaker> something on water... 21:34:35 <planetmaker> or in. or both 21:34:36 <AveiMil> that's a word? ll 21:34:44 <planetmaker> guess. yes 21:35:11 <planetmaker> you've never played with ships, eh? 21:35:26 <planetmaker> or never with the English version of OpenTTD... 21:35:48 <AveiMil> I've probably played only 5 hours of OpenTTD 21:35:56 <AveiMil> lol 21:36:00 <planetmaker> he 21:36:02 <AveiMil> and 10 hours doing this 21:36:12 <AveiMil> Played TTD as a kid, 12 years old or so 21:36:17 <planetmaker> that's a pretty peculiar ratio ;-) 21:36:25 <AveiMil> yeah :D 21:36:44 <AveiMil> but I felt the game was off when I could build without knowing what I'm doing 21:36:50 <AveiMil> and still beat ai/not bankrupt 21:38:27 <Yexo> I'm quite sure I've spend more time coding for openttd (including related things like nml) than playing the game 21:38:42 <AveiMil> :) 21:38:42 <Yexo> AveiMil: http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml/raw-file/tip/docs/vehicles.html#planes-property does list "speed" under "plane properties" 21:38:44 <planetmaker> :-) Yexo yes, there are people like you 21:39:02 <planetmaker> And... without those it definitely would not be where it is. 21:39:11 <planetmaker> I'm not even sure on which side of the balance I am. 21:39:11 <AveiMil> Yexo, ah, never saw that page 21:39:25 <AveiMil> any of you play Civilization 4? 21:39:40 <Yexo> a bit, but not for long 21:39:51 <planetmaker> I'd need to install windows for that... I tested it in a VM and it was sluggish there 21:40:06 <AveiMil> After all the expansion and with a mod that's one of the best games in the history of games imho. 21:40:15 <AveiMil> Extremely challanging versus AI 21:40:16 <Terkhen> me too, even including the time I played original TTD 21:40:17 <planetmaker> every civ was that 21:40:26 * Yexo prefers civilization II above civ 4 21:40:31 <planetmaker> :-) 21:40:35 <AveiMil> Civ4 is king 21:40:37 <AveiMil> civ5 is junk 21:40:41 <planetmaker> Civ I was the first game I owned which was not pirated 21:40:54 <planetmaker> and it was damn new back then 21:41:01 <AveiMil> Civ I was the first game I played over IPX 21:41:29 <__ln__> AveiMil: are you saying it had multiplayer support? 21:41:46 <AveiMil> yeah 21:41:46 <Yexo> again I have to disagree with you AveiMil, I think civ 5 was better than civ 4 21:42:06 <AveiMil> Yexo, because you're probably a casual player :) 21:42:31 <Yexo> could be, I haven't played either version for very long 21:42:42 *** Brianett1 [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:42:44 <planetmaker> the only two I played much were I and II 21:42:51 <Terkhen> civ4 is a great game 21:43:19 <__ln__> I don't recall I having any kind of multiplayer things, but... it was a long time ago. 21:43:21 <AveiMil> Trying to beat Civilization 4 on Immortal/Diety = you will litterally take 1-2 years practicing/learning to get good enough 21:43:32 <planetmaker> yes 21:43:50 <planetmaker> but then... there's a reason I play OpenTTD ;-) 21:44:06 <AveiMil> hehe 21:44:25 <planetmaker> I set my own goals and 'winning' conditions here 21:44:27 <AveiMil> OpenTTD is great, but I tihnk it really needs victory conditions implemented 21:44:38 <planetmaker> it has. 1000 points in 2050 21:44:47 <planetmaker> did you ever reach tycoon status? 21:44:54 <AveiMil> OTHER victory conditions :) 21:44:57 <planetmaker> tycoon of the century? 21:45:04 <AveiMil> So you could play to 1970 and win/loose 21:45:07 <AveiMil> if you prefer 21:45:28 <planetmaker> so... just an adjustable victory year? ;-) 21:45:36 <planetmaker> I think we once had that... 21:45:41 <AveiMil> haha, yeah and MORE conditions 21:45:43 <__ln__> AveiMil: the ideas of introducing military concepts into OpenTTD have been rejected, so there can't be VICTORY. 21:45:52 <AveiMil> like first company to transport 50203103103 passengers 21:45:54 <AveiMil> or something 21:46:07 <planetmaker> __ln__: that'd mean that there's no winner when playing bridge 21:46:11 <AveiMil> victory = military? 21:47:01 <AveiMil> Victory conditions would certainly make this game far better. Great for community as well, players get to compare and strive for "achivements" 21:47:08 <AveiMil> and in multiplayer it's golden 21:47:27 <planetmaker> AveiMil: yes, possibly. 21:50:01 <AveiMil> http://www.aveimil.com/misc/temp.txt <- lol I've spent all that on that 21:50:11 <andythenorth_> planetmaker: the binary in that dmg crashes on launch 21:50:22 <planetmaker> :-O 21:50:36 <planetmaker> can you give me the crash log? 21:51:09 <planetmaker> hmpf... 21:52:07 <ccfreak2k> Maybe even meta-achievements! 21:52:14 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.205.86] has joined #openttd 21:52:27 <ccfreak2k> Like suggesting yet another idea for pathfinding and/or signalling. 21:52:37 <AveiMil> Anyone want to help me play test my NewGRF? 21:53:33 <AveiMil> http://www.aveimil.com/OpenTTD/AveiMil_PIGM.grf 21:54:03 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:54:27 <avdg> what does it do? :) 21:54:48 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 21:55:46 <AveiMil> Changes base costs and train/viechle/ship/aircraft costs in an "intelligent" way 21:55:47 <AveiMil> hehe 21:56:00 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=44319 http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=47238 http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=44909 <-- maybe give you ideas AveiMil wrt goals ;-) 21:56:10 <planetmaker> and what others would (also) like... 21:56:18 <avdg> :) 21:56:31 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 21:56:38 *** Brianett1 is now known as Brianetta 21:57:08 <AveiMil> Basically I did not like basecost mods I found available. Like AlternateBaseCostMod was decent, until I found out building a tunnel cost 15 million pounds 21:57:19 <AveiMil> and terraforming 1 tile of land cost a few million or something 21:57:29 <AveiMil> it's fine to increase their cost, but that was redicilous 21:57:31 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.203.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:57:36 <AveiMil> migth as well disable that feature 21:58:20 <planetmaker> AveiMil: well... the base costs mods available allow you to change any and every setting which is there... 21:58:28 <planetmaker> :-) 21:58:39 <AveiMil> couldnt figure out how to do taht with 1.0.4 21:58:48 <AveiMil> and it's more fun to learn this my self from scratch 21:58:54 <planetmaker> using the completely user-unfriendly parameter settings ;-) 21:59:06 <AveiMil> and I doubt it would allow me to change base cost per train category 21:59:09 <planetmaker> that's why nightlies rock :-P 21:59:35 <AveiMil> now, for instance trucks, for each "generation" the new trucks are more cost efficient in terms of running cost, but they're expensive 21:59:41 <AveiMil> so it's a trade off, to upgrade or not 21:59:56 <AveiMil> the original the new bus cost about the same as the old 22:00:41 <AveiMil> in* 22:00:50 <planetmaker> andythenorth_: do you have a crash.log for me? 22:01:22 <planetmaker> AveiMil: that only works as long as you don't enable any vehicle newgrf ;-) 22:01:39 <andythenorth_> planetmaker: right now I have a baby :D 22:01:46 <planetmaker> :-) 22:02:03 <planetmaker> give him some beer and he'll sleep well :-P 22:02:12 <AveiMil> that's true, my mod only supports default viehcle sets 22:02:22 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8813.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:07:25 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08:06 <AveiMil> http://www.aveimil.com/OpenTTD/AveiMil_PIGM.grf <- if your up for a challange :) 22:09:02 <planetmaker> AveiMil: and now you modify it such, that you can set the build costs per user-setting parameter 22:09:09 <planetmaker> That'd make it much more useful :-) 22:09:11 <SpComb> mm beer 22:09:31 <Yexo> planetmaker: nml doesn't have documentation yet for user settings 22:09:32 <planetmaker> basically it'd mean to 'just' add the interface / parameter description 22:09:50 <planetmaker> Yexo: yes... He'll need to have to look at SwedishRails for that 22:10:07 <planetmaker> which covers IIRC every possibility there 22:10:11 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 22:11:27 <andythenorth_> planetmaker: 06/11/2010 21:49:53 com.apple.launchd[98] ([0x0-0xb8bb8b].org.openttd.openttd[49011]) Exited abnormally: Trace/BPT trap 22:11:33 <andythenorth_> that's all I've got 22:11:36 <andythenorth_> no crash log 22:11:36 <planetmaker> meh 22:11:45 <planetmaker> how... sad 22:11:54 <planetmaker> but thanks 22:12:12 <planetmaker> andythenorth_: osx 10.6.4 I assume? 22:12:29 <andythenorth_> 10.5.8 22:12:37 <planetmaker> hm, aye 22:13:02 <planetmaker> should still work... should have been built against 10.4u sdk... 22:13:23 <planetmaker> and has both i386 and x86_64 architectures... 22:13:31 <planetmaker> damn. Thanks for testing, andythenorth_ 22:13:36 <andythenorth_> np 22:13:45 <andythenorth_> sorry it didn't work 22:13:52 <planetmaker> might be I send more of that stuff your way one day or another. Not your fault 22:14:05 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@ip-89-102-137-248.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:16:57 <AveiMil> planetmaker, will perhaps look into that at a later time 22:17:32 <AveiMil> my main goal is to just make a solid/good configuration 22:17:36 <AveiMil> that provides good gameplay 22:18:07 <planetmaker> not really difficult... http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/swedishrails/nightlies/LATEST/log/swedishrails.nml 22:19:33 <planetmaker> AveiMil: that might become an option actually for OpenGFX+Trains or RV... in principle it's possible 22:23:33 <AveiMil> 'that'? 22:23:53 <planetmaker> modifying the vehicle purchase costs via parameter 22:24:29 <AveiMil> ok 22:24:54 <AveiMil> Haven't looked into OpenGFX+Trains 22:25:01 <AveiMil> is taht new train sets? 22:25:11 <planetmaker> you don't happen to be willing to install mercurial and get a checkout of one of those sets? 22:25:46 <planetmaker> OpenGFX+Trains currently is a re-definition of the wagons. So that you can transport all possible cargos. And which allow refit to a number of them each 22:28:20 <AveiMil> I don't understand. 22:28:36 <AveiMil> All possible cargos with 1 wagon? eh 22:28:43 <Eddi|zuHause> something like "old wagons, new cargos" 22:28:47 <planetmaker> all possible cargos in 9 wagons 22:29:23 <planetmaker> obviously you cannot transport oil in the wagon designed for passengers 22:29:25 <AveiMil> I'm not following, are you saying there's new wagon types? 22:29:32 <planetmaker> but transporting water is possible after cleaning 22:29:32 <Terkhen> the refit idea only made sense to me after I started playing with new industry GRFs 22:29:41 <AveiMil> There's more than 9 wagons in my game now so I'm not following. 22:29:44 <planetmaker> Terkhen: yeah :-) 22:30:02 <planetmaker> AveiMil: :-) I guess you just need to try it out 22:30:15 <planetmaker> download it. Add it to your game. And see 22:30:44 <planetmaker> an early preview version is available from bananas as OpenGFX+Trains 0.1.0 22:30:49 <Eddi|zuHause> AveiMil: there can be like 32 cargo types in one game. having 32 different cargo wagons makes no sense. so you combine things like "coal and ore can be carried in the same wagon" 22:33:04 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:54:37 <AveiMil> so there's a lot of cargo types trains can't transport? 22:54:42 <AveiMil> 32 cargo types? really? 22:55:00 <AveiMil> trains already have coal wagons and iron ore hoppers :) 22:55:08 <AveiMil> better example? 22:56:50 <Eddi|zuHause> AveiMil: industry sets can define new cargos, like sand or milk 22:57:10 <AveiMil> ah 22:57:18 <AveiMil> are they non-standard industry sets? 22:57:30 <Eddi|zuHause> AveiMil: so you want to define the wagons like "the wagon that can transport water, can also transport other liquids like milk" 22:57:51 <AveiMil> Liquid Transport Wagon :P 22:58:09 <Eddi|zuHause> or "the wagon that can transport coal and ore can also transport other cargo like sand and gravel" 22:58:27 <AveiMil> yeah 22:59:09 <Eddi|zuHause> AveiMil: this way, you can create a fairly short list of "cargo classes", which all cargos can somehow easily be divided in 22:59:11 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:17 <Eddi|zuHause> then you define one wagon for each cargo class 22:59:30 <Eddi|zuHause> instead of one wagon for each cargo type 23:00:35 <Wolf01> nini 23:00:39 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host168-234-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:00:43 <Eddi|zuHause> AveiMil: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Cargos#Cargo_classes_16_ 23:03:59 <AveiMil> sounds smart 23:07:58 *** RoDJi [RoDJi@109.232.117.198] has quit [] 23:08:00 <AveiMil> For train stations, in terms of passenger build up, does it matter how many blue squraes are "touching" the twoN? 23:08:02 <AveiMil> town* 23:09:52 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe83de00-38.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 23:11:02 <SpComb> AveiMil: it's building-specific 23:12:33 <AveiMil> so the more blue buildings inside the coverage zone = the more passangers 23:16:12 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 23:20:04 <Terkhen> good night 23:20:18 <planetmaker> good night here, too 23:20:47 <AveiMil> gn 23:28:59 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.130.59] has joined #openttd 23:29:20 *** andythenorth_ [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth_] 23:35:02 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.130.59] has quit [Quit: more listen, more understand, more know] 23:42:12 *** avdg [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:48:45 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 23:51:28 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:41 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 23:57:21 *** AveiMil [~AveiMil@232.81-166-168.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The alternative IRC client]