Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:03:49 *** Xyzzy_ [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [Quit: -a-] 00:04:24 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 00:08:31 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [] 00:08:47 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 00:14:53 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:24:11 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 00:27:30 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:27:55 *** Chillosophy [~fu@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [] 00:29:09 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:30:14 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 00:39:44 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:39:48 *** Xyzzy_ [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 00:45:20 *** Xyzzy_ [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:46:14 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 00:47:54 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-84-42-201-222.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:49:12 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Ehm.. Quit? What's That?] 00:49:12 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: ...und tschÃŒÃ!] 00:49:12 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: ...] 00:49:12 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Bye - http.//dev.openttdcoop.org] 00:49:12 *** SmatZ [~SmatZ@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 00:49:12 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: So long, and thank's for all the fish] 00:49:12 *** tneo [~tneo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 00:49:12 *** Guest1872 [~V453000@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: You must construct additional PYLONS to get me back!] 00:49:12 *** Ammler [~ammler@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: gone...] 00:50:23 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:51:49 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 00:51:59 *** Ammler [~ammler@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 00:52:10 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 00:52:37 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 00:52:54 *** SmatZ [~SmatZ@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 00:52:57 *** mode/#openttd [+o SmatZ] by ChanServ 00:52:57 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:53:40 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 00:55:22 *** AveiMil [~AveiMil@232.81-166-168.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- \o/] 00:55:40 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 00:55:43 *** mode/#openttd [+o Terkhen] by ChanServ 00:56:10 *** V453000 [~V453000@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 00:56:51 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 00:59:10 *** tneo [~tneo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 01:00:23 *** Zen0x [~Zen0x@cm-84.211.233.232.getinternet.no] has joined #openttd 01:05:18 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:07:24 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 01:07:27 *** mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ 01:08:27 *** Zen0x [~Zen0x@cm-84.211.233.232.getinternet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:10:44 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 01:10:44 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [] 01:11:10 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 01:13:24 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host98-95-dynamic.117-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 01:17:02 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [Quit: -a-] 01:18:16 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 01:22:22 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.104.150] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 01:29:58 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:30:19 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 01:31:36 *** avdg [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:35:27 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 01:35:27 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [Quit: -a-] 01:36:16 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 01:40:52 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [] 01:44:28 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:47:02 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 01:51:47 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [] 01:53:30 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 01:54:13 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-105-132.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:58:59 *** Xyzzy_ [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 01:59:09 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:59:11 *** Joni_ [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-fe00dc00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 02:03:14 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:04:04 *** Xyzzy_ [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:06:36 *** elmz_ [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 02:07:51 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:08:26 *** Joni- [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-fe00dc00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 02:10:27 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:a023:a7ce:84f3:1f61] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:10:28 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5D66.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 02:13:16 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-145-23.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [] 02:33:56 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 02:36:55 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [] 02:43:21 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:45:21 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 02:52:57 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8cd50.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:54:35 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:56:33 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 03:07:56 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:07:58 *** Xyzzy_ [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 03:12:43 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 03:17:47 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:18:36 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 03:18:52 *** Xyzzy_ [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:23:36 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:24:29 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 03:29:16 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [] 03:30:46 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 03:41:05 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:44:07 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 03:50:36 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:52:39 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: more listen, more understand, more know] 03:53:22 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.9.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:58:01 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 04:02:41 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [] 04:03:35 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@borealis.jontysewell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:03:41 *** PeterT [PeterT@peter.tarkoy.com] has quit [Quit: Goodbye] 04:03:46 *** Rubidium [~Rubidium@noiv.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:09:25 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 04:17:27 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:32:10 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 04:38:11 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [Quit: -a-] 04:44:31 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 04:49:14 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [] 04:50:42 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 04:55:10 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.9.61] has joined #openttd 04:57:25 *** Xyzzy_ [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 05:02:11 *** Xyzzy_ [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:02:52 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:03:05 *** kdub [~kdub@user-0c9h81h.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #openttd 05:03:42 <kdub> i have a joint shipping/train station, and the train is set to "transfer and leave empty". my ships don't take any cargo though, how do i get them to? 05:05:13 <kdub> so the train shows up, and does a transfer, some money appears, and the ships just wait at 0% 05:05:16 <Eddi|zuHause> have you checked if it is refit to the correct cargo type? 05:07:34 <kdub> hmm, i havent done anything like that 05:08:08 <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably the problem then ;) 05:08:24 <kdub> it is a cargo ship, i havent seen anything on the wiki about refitting it 05:09:47 <kdub> ah, there we go, lets see if this works... 05:10:04 <kdub> yay, thanks Eddi|zuHause 05:15:41 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 05:21:51 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:23:04 *** Xyzzy_ [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has joined #openttd 05:26:33 *** elmz_ [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:26:34 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 05:26:48 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.31.253.66] has joined #openttd 05:32:37 *** Xyzzy_ [~Xyzzy@41.29.160.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:55:53 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B775B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:11 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75E40.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:07:35 *** kdub [~kdub@user-0c9h81h.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:25:40 *** rubidium [~rubidium@sd511106a.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 06:36:36 *** avdg [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 06:47:16 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.9.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:00:40 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has joined #openttd 07:03:17 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-16-114-12.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 07:18:47 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@2.124.130.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:24:34 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:30:42 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 07:34:59 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-105.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 07:43:10 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe3fdc00-230.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:54:45 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:09 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:01:22 *** rellig [~rellig@vs1191017.vserver.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:04:03 *** Rubidium_ [~Rubidium@noiv.net] has joined #openttd 08:04:11 *** rubidium [~rubidium@sd511106a.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:04:29 *** Rubidium_ is now known as Rubidium 08:06:37 <Terkhen> good morning 08:07:32 <avdg> good morning 08:09:34 <planetmaker> moin 08:10:38 <xiong> Good morning, good morning! 08:11:06 <xiong> Show of hands: Does anyone play this game who does not have an extensive computer programming background? 08:12:46 *** Mortomes|TGIF [~MortomesW@mail.qps.nl] has joined #openttd 08:12:47 *** Mortomes|TGIF is now known as Mortomes|Work 08:19:56 <xiong> No hands. I guess that's all of us. It's only what I expected. 08:20:39 <planetmaker> you should also ask the reverse question ;-) 08:21:25 <xiong> I could; but where would I ask it? "Are there any computer programmers who do not play OpenTTD?" 08:21:48 <xiong> I could ask on PerlMonks, I guess. 08:21:49 <__ln__> background programming of a computer extensive does not have this game who plays anyone does? 08:22:21 <xiong> Only a hacker would say that, __ln__. You are busted. 08:24:08 <planetmaker> the reverse question here would of course be "Does anyone play this game who has an extensive computer programming background" 08:24:18 <planetmaker> and you ask it in the same place(s). 08:24:23 <xiong> I went to work today, spent the first 6 hours planning a huge transfer station in my head and on paper, and quit early. As soon as I put the finishing touches on the small, local, two-city station with a mere 17 tracks, each 6 platform tiles, I start leveling for the transfer. 08:24:30 <planetmaker> or your conclusions are biased by your questions 08:25:00 <xiong> planetmaker, That's not the reverse question; that's the inverse. Testing the theorem also tests the inverse. 08:25:22 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice2n2.emea.ibm.com] has joined #openttd 08:25:42 <xiong> That's probably BS but frankly, I'm not going to strangle a cat with it. 08:25:48 *** norbert79 is now known as Guest160 08:26:01 <Noldo> sample size! 08:26:41 <xiong> I *am* going to build a transfer station with 18 tracks, each 8 platforms -- on the trunk side -- and two blocks of 8 tracks, 6 platforms each for the local side. 08:27:29 <xiong> I figure, based on games played so far, that the key factor in station size is the number of trains waiting to load industrial cargo. 08:28:17 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 08:28:24 *** Guest160 is now known as norbert79 08:32:50 <xiong> Hm. The signals-in-tunnels patch is... not in trunk? 08:35:03 <avdg> hmm, should it belong in the trunk? 08:35:48 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-16-114-12.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:36:13 *** AveiMil [~AveiMil@232.81-166-168.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 08:36:15 <xiong> avdg, Sorry. I'm a baroque kinda guy. I like everything on my hot dog, except of course mustard. 08:36:49 <avdg> :p 08:37:31 <xiong> Although I have always loathed Micro$oft, I used Word 5.1 for many years, simply because it had a built-in little graphics editor, within which was... a tiny text editor. 08:37:50 *** azaghal_ [~azaghal@109.207.46.39] has joined #openttd 08:41:24 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19E13.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:41:26 <planetmaker> [09:25] <xiong> planetmaker, That's not the reverse question; that's the inverse. Testing the theorem also tests the inverse. <-- you apply the wrong methods. Social sciences have a long history of fallacies which are a result from the assumption you express here 08:41:54 <planetmaker> the assumption you express only applies to binary logic in (natural) sciences 08:42:17 <xiong> Oh, it's worse than that. So much worse, I wouldn't know where to start. 08:42:55 <xiong> Small sample size, sample bias, failure to respond, and the nasty question of how many of us are eating french fries right this very minute. 08:43:54 <planetmaker> sample size of 0 maybe? 08:43:58 <xiong> I still think everyone who plays this game (for some value of "everyone") has a computer engineering background, probably in software, very likely advanced. 08:44:29 * planetmaker ponders and wonders 08:44:38 <xiong> Eh? You read the question. You have been sampled. So Noldo and __ln__. 08:44:39 *** azaghal [~azaghal@109.207.46.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:44:40 * planetmaker looks at my CV 08:44:56 <planetmaker> xiong: reading your question doesn't mean I'll answer it ;-) 08:45:11 <Terkhen> ieugh 08:45:19 <xiong> Failure to respond to survey. There's a reason why I'm not in the social sciences. 08:45:58 <planetmaker> thus you're in error if you take 'no answer' as a unique answer 08:46:34 <dih> :-P 08:46:35 <Terkhen> planetmaker: I think he asks these questions this way just to troll us 08:46:44 <xiong> Signals-in-tunnels is an important feature. Prototype railroads signal in tunnels routinely. 08:46:45 <planetmaker> probably 08:46:46 * dih pondered that too 08:46:55 <Terkhen> so it's probably better to not add fuel to the fire 08:47:04 <xiong> Terkhen, That's not nice. I'd like to know. 08:47:11 <planetmaker> Terkhen: I still don't find anywher computer sciences even remotely in my CV? Am I a bad guy now? 08:47:20 <dih> Terkhen, not adding fuel or rather extinguish it? 08:47:22 <Terkhen> :O 08:47:27 <xiong> I didn't place any moral value on it, man. 08:47:43 <Terkhen> planetmaker: why are you on this channel then? 08:47:48 <xiong> It's an extremely complex game. I'll take that as a "no", though. 08:47:49 <planetmaker> l wonder ;-) 08:48:09 <Terkhen> :P 08:48:13 <dih> i know how the fire could be put out ^^ 08:48:25 <xiong> I'm curious: What are your specialties, planetmaker? 08:48:32 <planetmaker> <<--- 08:49:01 <xiong> Although, you know, I have to say that if you've done all the OTTD development I think you have, you are now an experienced computer programmer, whether you had that background when you came in or not. 08:49:36 <xiong> I don't limit experience to resume stuff -- or, as you folks across the pond say, CV. 08:49:42 <planetmaker> I guess I taught myself image processing and I could put that on my CV... 08:50:05 * avdg hates CV's :p 08:50:15 <xiong> avdg++ 08:50:36 <avdg> it screwed up my entire life 08:50:43 <planetmaker> ;-) 08:50:59 <planetmaker> you're totlaly screwed, avdg - you're in this channel! 08:51:15 <avdg> ./part not anymore :p 08:51:37 <planetmaker> sex, drugs and OpenTTD? 08:51:46 <norbert79> lol 08:51:57 <avdg> hmm, the radio 08:52:00 <avdg> thats a good idea :) 08:52:17 <norbert79> Just imagined: "Hey sweety, make me a new rail network, and I will go bed with you" 08:52:25 <Terkhen> lol 08:52:29 <planetmaker> llol 08:53:08 *** avdg1 [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:53:29 <avdg1> <3 cablemanagement *has a desktop full of wires* 08:53:30 * Rubidium wonders whether Belugas' son is has done any computer science related studies 08:55:57 <planetmaker> :-) 08:56:23 <planetmaker> or (m)any of those guys who roam the German forums... 08:57:20 <Terkhen> anyone who checks the forums (or even better, flyspray) would have never asked that question 08:57:23 <xiong> Okay, looking for the experienced answer: Why, on clear track -- no junctions of any kind -- would I want to space out my signals? Why not signal every tile? 08:58:34 <xiong> Terkhen, There is always an amateur fringe. What a terribly worded question! I guess I should abandon my efforts to obtain an anthropology master's. 08:58:52 <xiong> I'd rather talk trains. 08:59:58 <xiong> I see a lot of the shots here and there have signals set every 2 tiles. I don't know why this should be a magic number. At first, I signaled every N tiles, where N is the length of my trains. But this wastes track, dynamically. So, why not every tile? 09:00:03 *** avdg [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:00:26 <TrueBrain> go for it! :) 09:00:31 <planetmaker> equation of continuity ;-) 09:01:11 <xiong> Naturally, past a junction, I want to leave unsignaled N tiles. But leading up to a junction, I don't see the merit in spacing them out. Nor do I see much informed discussion of the topic. 09:01:13 <Terkhen> my point is that doing a survey in a subset of the population will give you biased results 09:02:01 <Terkhen> about the signals... I'm not very good with trains, but in my experience signals spaced every two tiles are usually enough and they cost half 09:02:18 <xiong> So, it's just a money thing? 09:02:30 <planetmaker> keeping a spacing of a signal every tile is difficult for junctions ;-) 09:02:34 <xiong> Or possibly, for some, a thing about the way it looks. 09:02:49 <xiong> planetmaker, I said that. 09:03:04 <Terkhen> also, a space between tiles makes it easier to connect new railways to your line 09:03:20 <xiong> Yah. You don't have to remove an existing signal. 09:04:18 <xiong> This ties into my desire to see signals-in-tunnels. See, here is a tunnel; unsignalled of course. A little further on, a junction, signaled before the junction, of course, and unsignaled for N tiles afterward. 09:04:24 <planetmaker> a chain is only as strong as its weakest link 09:04:30 <planetmaker> strength here is signal distance 09:04:35 <TrueBrain> also, one has to consider the time it takes to get up to speed vs many signals 09:04:46 <planetmaker> As such there's no point to use anywhere a signal distance smaller than your largest gap 09:04:57 <xiong> So, naturally, I want to put a signal immediately after the tunnel exit. This might be right before the next signal, just before the junction. 09:06:25 <xiong> I realize this will not have a large effect on throughput vs leaving the tile empty at the tunnel exit. But the early signal will be cleared a little earlier and let another train into the tunnel just a bit sooner, which may allow something else to get moving upstream, and so on. 09:06:46 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5D66.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:08:24 <xiong> planetmaker, I think you and I are saying the same thing. If I have a stretch of track with a tunnel in it, then the tunnel is the weak link -- or the choke point. The longer the tunnel, the worse the choke. Not signaling right at tunnel entry and exit means, effectively, a longer tunnel -- a longer unsignaled track. No? 09:08:44 *** azaghal [~azaghal@109.207.46.30] has joined #openttd 09:09:48 <xiong> The point is, perhaps, not so much to signal closely on completely clear track; but to signal closely near obstructions: tunnels and junctions. 09:09:59 <xiong> If I'm wrong about this, I'd like to know it. 09:10:14 <xiong> I don't pretend to have any real experience. I'm only theorizing. 09:10:53 <planetmaker> [10:10] <xiong> I don't pretend to have any real experience. I'm only theorizing. <-- I say, that's your main problem 09:10:57 <planetmaker> with many things 09:11:50 *** stinkyfax [~stinkyfax@wowmod.eu] has left #openttd [] 09:11:50 <norbert79> brb 09:11:50 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice2n2.emea.ibm.com] has left #openttd [] 09:15:04 *** azaghal_ [~azaghal@109.207.46.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:20:22 <xiong> What? How can that be a problem? No, don't answer that. This is trains, not scientific method. If you have a problem with people thinking, well, sorry. I'm not going to fool with it. 09:21:03 <xiong> It might be nice if you said something in support, or against, any of my half-assed theories. That would be information, which I can use. 09:21:17 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice2n2.emea.ibm.com] has joined #openttd 09:21:26 <xiong> But you needn't feel compelled and I'm sorry if you take it that way. 09:23:05 <TrueBrain> I think you should play more, and ask less. As that is the game :) 09:23:48 <TrueBrain> everyone has his own style, there is no wrong or right. There only is playing :) 09:24:48 <avdg1> there is, the personal right style :) 09:42:17 *** avdg1 is now known as avdg 09:46:42 * avdg wonders where the bug is in fs4212 09:47:07 <Rubidium> IMO in Windows 09:47:32 <TrueBrain> on the bugtracker 09:47:37 <TrueBrain> hiihihihihihihihhiih :D 09:47:48 <planetmaker> evil you ;-) 09:50:59 *** azaghal [~azaghal@109.207.46.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:51:28 <planetmaker> --without-cocoa-quartz --without-cocoa-quickdraw was not a good choice of options ;-) 09:52:33 * avdg can only wish to learn the c++ api's 09:52:44 <planetmaker> go for it ;-) 09:54:10 <TrueBrain> well, with only wishing you won' get there. I suggest doing. But that is just me :D :) 09:54:14 <TrueBrain> owh, enough with the bad jokes ... 09:54:25 <avdg> yeah, doing exercises :p 09:54:30 <avdg> I'm reading too much :p 09:55:10 *** V453000 is now known as Guest165 09:59:09 *** azaghal [~azaghal@109.207.46.4] has joined #openttd 10:00:22 <planetmaker> x86_64 withut cocoa-quartz was also a bad idea ;-) 10:02:59 * Terkhen wonders how to fight procrastination 10:03:10 <planetmaker> a cookie, if not? 10:04:02 <Terkhen> I already tried having cookies with breakfast; I still prefer to procrastinate over working 10:04:04 <Rubidium> Terkhen: by fixing any of the unsolved bugs? 10:04:31 <planetmaker> :-) 10:04:52 <Rubidium> possibly filter 'OSX' out first and then starting at the bottom 10:04:54 <planetmaker> There might be a *slight* disagreement on the definition of 'procrastinate'? ;-) 10:05:31 <Terkhen> Rubidium: great, now I'll procrastinate while I look at the list :P 10:05:44 <planetmaker> :-D 10:05:53 <avdg> now the great question: 10:05:57 <avdg> what does work? :) 10:05:59 <Rubidium> 42 10:06:05 <Terkhen> ^ 10:06:28 <Rubidium> hmm, or is #openttd.42 already down? 10:09:47 <planetmaker> the channel police is still there 10:10:42 <planetmaker> what purpose did that channel ever server? 10:11:38 <Terkhen> there are many pathfinder bugs... maybe it's time to learn how the pathfinder code works 10:11:47 <Terkhen> but honestly, it scares me :P 10:13:01 <planetmaker> you know what scares me? ;-) 10:13:04 <Rubidium> planetmaker: the old bot was called 42 IIRC 10:13:42 <Terkhen> planetmaker: I think I do... but I said scared, not terrified 10:13:56 <planetmaker> :-) 10:13:59 <Rubidium> 2007-03-06T22:00:57 <_42_> Flyspray: [FS#666] Bug Report changed: field 'task_severity': 'Low' -> 'Medium' by Miham 10:14:58 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@2a02:1680:0:1:2:1:1:6e01] has joined #openttd 10:20:22 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-84-42-201-222.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 10:33:15 <dih> Rubidium, would it make sense to keep admin connections open after issuing the command 'part' ? 10:33:30 <dih> ... if they are not already :-S 10:39:21 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=911101#p911101 <-- xiong Ammler is merely telling you "you can treat your townnames as if they are 100% your own work, you don't need to heed any licenses, con choose whatever suits you" 10:39:38 <planetmaker> s/con/can/ 10:40:24 <planetmaker> (and yes, he knows Fred, even in person) 10:41:43 <norbert79> xiong: But if you stick on having a license, use GPL version 2 10:41:48 <norbert79> thats the easiest 10:42:17 <planetmaker> @ports 10:42:17 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound) 10:44:36 <xiong> Do you see where it says I'm not going to discuss this further, absent new information? I meant that. Please, drop it. 10:44:47 <Rubidium> dih: not really I reckon 10:45:12 <planetmaker> difference between LAN and internet server is the announcement to the masterserver only, right? 10:45:22 <Rubidium> hai 10:45:28 <planetmaker> thanks :-) 10:48:14 <dih> Rubidium, the reason i ask is that if i enter 'part' on the console, the game ends but openttd dedicated console is still active, i can change settings and then run 'newgame' 10:49:09 <dih> and that could be an interesting thing for anything connected to that socket 10:49:27 <Ammler> xiong: just release your town names grf ;-) 10:50:18 <planetmaker> salut Ammler 10:50:27 <xiong> Ammler, I'm not in the habit of writing without forethought. I meant every single word I wrote, no more, no less. I've already addressed your remark, before you even made it. 10:50:46 <Ammler> good morning all :-) 10:50:49 <Terkhen> hi Ammler 10:52:01 <xiong> What many people fail to understand about me is that I think very carefully before I say anything serious. Unless you have new information to offer me, I cannot be persuaded by any amount of rhetoric, repetition, or threat to change my mind -- not on any subject. I am only susceptible to reason. I'm sorry; I realize this infuriates many people. But that's how I'm constructed. 10:52:53 <xiong> On the bright side, I'm extremely willing to reverse myself on a dime, given that new information. I've been wrong all my life; I can be wrong again very easily. 10:52:58 <planetmaker> your lack of understanding makes reasoning futile 10:53:00 <Terkhen> whatever 10:53:16 <xiong> I'm sorry; what is there to understand? 10:53:32 <planetmaker> how copyright works 10:53:41 <norbert79> Just read in the news: The engine failure of the Airbus 380 Quants plane was caused by an oil-leak in the engine. The source of the problem is under investigation, all current Airbus380 planes are on hold for Qantas. 10:53:46 <xiong> Oh, that's not a lack of understanding. That's a lack of interest. 10:54:07 <norbert79> xiong: Well, interested or not, thats an issue, which noone can avoid :) 10:54:29 <Terkhen> :D 10:54:30 <Ammler> that's not true, if you wouldn't be interested in, you would just use the license you get told to use. 10:54:31 <xiong> I consider the entire matter of "intellectual property" to be a fool's errand. That said, yes, it's an issue I can't entirely avoid. 10:54:55 <xiong> Ammler, If you have read my post then you would see I have answered that issue. Very clearly. 10:54:58 <norbert79> Ammler: Which could also cause some troubles for him later on, but thats something which I don't want to go into details about :) 10:55:07 <planetmaker> norbert79: it's one possibility... Lufthansa claims to not have seen that at their engines... 10:55:21 <norbert79> planetmaker: Yeah, I also vote for maintanence issues 10:55:24 <Ammler> xiong: yes, which tells me, that you are very interested in the license topic, maybe too much :-) 10:55:30 <norbert79> planetmaker: Wouldn't be the first time at Qantas 10:55:54 <xiong> No; rather, I'm hostile to it, personally. I don't want to have anything to do with it, at all, not in any way, shape or form. 10:55:59 <planetmaker> norbert79: maintenance issues? Hm... They're one of the very few without fatal incidents in their whole history 10:56:03 <planetmaker> which is rare 10:56:24 <norbert79> planetmaker: Well, not having lost any planes and having ongoing maintanence issues are two different things :) 10:56:49 <planetmaker> true for sure ;-) 10:57:09 <Ammler> norbert79: also gpl isn't the easiest license, imo, that is rather CC-whatever, as you don't need to supply sources then. 10:57:11 <planetmaker> but it tells at least that in the past maintenance has been thorough enough to avoid fatal mishaps ;-) 10:57:14 <xiong> And now, you've all tried again to persuade my without introducing new information. Please, spare yourself the frustration. I'm a blockhead. 10:57:35 <norbert79> Ammler: I still prefer it, besides in case of GRF's, the GRF is the source itself... 10:57:44 <norbert79> Ammler: But you are partly right 10:57:46 <Ammler> it is best :-) 10:58:12 *** zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 10:58:15 <planetmaker> Ammler: the (newer) CDDL is not bad either and makes cooperation easier 10:58:34 <Terkhen> xiong: if that is the case, why bother about releasing your work? 10:58:40 <planetmaker> you may pick pieces, keep the CDDL for that and apply your favourite one for the whole project, the one which you chose 10:58:54 <norbert79> planetmaker: Indeed, but I just think they used some other spare part replacing something in their planes... Just think on the British Airways accident, where the pilot got almost sucked out fully from a Boeing, because the maintanenr has replaced the bolts of the cockpit's front panels with almost similar bolts 10:59:18 <planetmaker> never heart of that. Sounds scary 10:59:33 <norbert79> planetmaker: It's just a hunch... But having the same issue for all planes? Must be maintanence... Let me google that for ya :) 10:59:51 <norbert79> planetmaker: Pilot survived! :) 10:59:54 <xiong> Terkhen, Please stop. Or go on, if you merely want to have the last word. You may, at your option, read my post, which will answer all your questions, I sincerely believe. 10:59:59 <Ammler> xiong: the only info important from me, you got already 11:00:21 <norbert79> planetmaker: Ok, it was a BAC 11:00:24 <norbert79> planetmaker: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_5390 11:00:27 <Ammler> no need for credits and reusing my license 11:00:35 <planetmaker> norbert79: can be a design / construction issue of the engine as well. I read that maintenance is done by Rolls Royce anyway 11:00:57 <norbert79> planetmaker: No, the Airbus is built with two types of engines, one is Rolls Royce only 11:01:09 <xiong> Another thing that may clarify things for you all is that I cannot detect most rhetorical questions. If you are making a statement and you address it to me with a question mark at the end, I think I'm being asked to answer, although I know that quite often, people do not mean to ask, merely to state. Sorry; this is a blind spot of mine. 11:01:17 <planetmaker> yes. But only Rolls Royce engines have that problem, norbert79 ;-) 11:01:18 <norbert79> planetmaker: I mean there are two versions of the plane 11:01:24 <xiong> Ammler, You presented new information, so I replied. 11:01:27 <norbert79> planetmaker: Crap, I rest my case :D 11:01:47 <planetmaker> yes, two engine manufacturers, I know :-) 11:01:49 <Ammler> xiong: and what holds you back from release now? 11:02:06 <planetmaker> Ammler: obviously "no new information" :-P 11:02:08 <xiong> Ammler, Have I truly been unclear? 11:02:27 <xiong> Or are you asking a rhetorical question? 11:02:37 <Ammler> well, you told something to send me your source and I should make the release? 11:02:53 <xiong> You read my reply. It stands. 11:03:39 <Terkhen> xiong: that's my point... why raise the topic again if you don't want to discuss it further? 11:03:49 <norbert79> planetmaker: Ohoohohh... Found the NGC channels episode of the BA 5390 accident: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3041709005694132808# 11:04:27 <xiong> Terkhen, I did not raise the topic again. 11:04:27 <xiong> Read the thread. 11:05:08 <xiong> Why don't you guys just try moving on? You are frustrated, I am frustrated. I'm really a fairly decent guy but you are pushing in the wrong place. I will be happy to come over to your house and do your dishes, even if you have burned gummy crud on the bottom of your pots. I like to be helpful when I can. 11:05:24 <norbert79> xiong: Hehh... Yeah, when you are raising a big thread, you are upset, when you don't get ansewers, when others start a thread partially behalf of your issues, you are upset, because you are involved... :) Clever... 11:05:29 <planetmaker> wth, norbert79 ?! that's... 'amazing' is the wrong word 11:05:54 <Terkhen> xiong: I see a new post from you, which motivated an answer here 11:06:01 <norbert79> planetmaker: Amazing in the term that the pilot survived without any serious injuries 11:06:42 <xiong> norbert79, No, that's not right. I wrote the thread for reasons I stated in the thread itself. I'm upset because I can't put the issue to rest. I have not seen this "other thread"; you might be kind enough to point it out to me. 11:07:28 <dih> what thread are you guys on about? 11:07:33 <planetmaker> xiong: you have all means and all liberty to put it to a rest you like ever since Ammler answered you there. So maybe heed your own words and spoken desire to lest the 'issue' rest, ok? 11:07:36 <xiong> Dear gods, from the littleun down to the big fat one on the end! 11:07:39 <dih> ah 11:07:41 <norbert79> xiong: Other thread: Everything else you started talking about :D Anyway, sorry dude, either you stick to the license of CC or CDDL or GPL2, otherwise US regulations apply and you get ongoing requests on relicensing.. Your choice :) 11:08:10 <norbert79> xiong: Whatever fits you :) 11:08:45 <xiong> planetmaker, Ammler posted. In my reply, I think I made it clear why I *had* to reply. I'd have been happy if nobody had said a word. 11:09:03 <xiong> What is the point of this discussion? 11:09:23 <norbert79> Oh, how many tiomes have we been asking this question :) 11:09:36 <dih> hey fred - you are soooo mean :-P 11:09:43 <Terkhen> yes, we agree on something 11:09:50 <Terkhen> let's drop the issue right now completely :) 11:09:55 * dih wonders if pm even has a highlight for that name :-D 11:10:01 <norbert79> lol 11:10:06 <xiong> I tell all you guys, clearly: I did not start this convo here on IRC tonight. Don't blame me for it. 11:10:09 <dih> Terkhen, close the threads? :-P 11:10:19 <xiong> Terkhen++ 11:10:35 * dih blames fred - after all he does attract this kind of stuff :-P 11:10:45 <Terkhen> dih: ignoring it and further pointless discussions here should be enough 11:11:00 <xiong> Thank you. 11:11:11 <xiong> Now, I will go back to my trains. 11:11:45 <xiong> If I can persuade the Harrisburg local authority to let me build the damn platforms. I've already invested a million bucks in track, tunnels, and signals. 11:11:58 <Noldo> so there is a threah to flame somewhere? 11:12:09 <Ammler> just don't blame others, if you don't want release something then 11:12:21 <planetmaker> [12:10] <dih> Terkhen, close the threads? :-P <-- I guess I'll do that... 11:12:29 <norbert79> Thats what the Fat controller said to Thomas the engine.. He ended up in the asylum too 11:12:40 <norbert79> (going back to his trains) 11:13:23 <norbert79> TFT "And you Percy go straight ahead, and pick up those coals..." Nurse: "Doctor, he is doing it again..." 11:14:11 * norbert79 is a destroyer of childhood illusions... 11:17:14 *** Xyzzy_ [~Xyzzy@41.31.253.66] has joined #openttd 11:17:15 *** Xyzzy [~Xyzzy@41.31.253.66] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:24:42 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 11:32:48 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-84-42-201-222.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:36:20 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 11:39:52 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 11:41:29 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.104.150] has joined #openttd 11:41:44 *** Yexo_ [~Yexo@153-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 11:41:47 *** mode/#openttd [+o Yexo_] by ChanServ 11:42:46 *** Yexo [~Yexo@153-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:48:59 <planetmaker> norbert79: that video on the BA incident looks interesting. I shall watch it tonight 11:50:07 <norbert79> planetmaker: I am happy, that I could share this with you... :) My most investigated, "favorite" accident was the JAL123 in 1985... 11:50:31 <norbert79> planetmaker: There is also a flash animation about the accident including original sound tapes 11:50:53 <planetmaker> where? ;-) 11:51:00 <norbert79> planetmaker: Moment :) 11:51:04 <planetmaker> or you mean JAL123? 11:51:15 <planetmaker> then google video has it as the fingertips 11:51:23 <norbert79> planetmaker: http://jal123.com/JAL123.swf 11:53:12 <planetmaker> ah, yes, I recall that from the news 11:54:19 <norbert79> Most terrible one, and the most honoured one 12:16:16 <dih> BA incident? 12:23:17 <planetmaker> read a bit back for the link 12:27:38 <dih> there is a series called 'air crash investigation' on youtube, they also go through that flight 12:27:52 <dih> very good documentry 12:28:50 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-105.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:28:56 <planetmaker> yes ;-) 12:37:01 <Eddi|zuHause> if you watch too many of these, you'll never want to fly again :p 12:38:59 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: I'm not that afraid ;-) 12:39:31 <planetmaker> I've been flying within a plane only allowed to take-off on special permit for each take-off ;-) 12:39:47 <planetmaker> not once, not twice, but a dozen times ;-) 12:40:54 <planetmaker> http://www.novespace.fr/fr,a300,presentation.html <-- A300, model #3 ;-) 12:41:24 <planetmaker> but it has a hand-picked service crew - but no one else anymore has the qualification ;-) 12:41:45 <planetmaker> and, granted, it's flown by french military test pilot trainer as commander ;-) 12:41:45 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8cd50.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:43:54 <Rubidium> that sounds annoying when you need to make a go-around after the wheels have hit the tarmac 12:49:15 <Rubidium> even then, media have a strange way of covering incidents; a small plane crashing here with a few dead is big news, whereas a car crashing into a tree killing a few doesn't even show up on the local news 12:50:41 <SirSquidness> planetmaker: I am envious of your plane flying escapades (although, only if you're talking about the exact plane featured in that picture, not just a plane of the same model) 12:51:07 <planetmaker> I mean that exact one, yes 12:54:18 *** Guest165 is now known as V453000 12:56:51 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:f553:f7bb:dbe3:4e29] has joined #openttd 12:56:54 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:02:19 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice2n2.emea.ibm.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:03:40 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice1n2.emea.ibm.com] has joined #openttd 13:04:17 *** norbert79 is now known as Guest172 13:05:05 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8933.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 13:05:17 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-83-187.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:07:28 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-105-165.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 13:07:31 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 13:40:40 *** perk111 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 13:42:54 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:47:24 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8cd50.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:52:31 *** perk111 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 14:01:55 *** Guest172 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice1n2.emea.ibm.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:01:55 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 14:09:06 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice4n2.emea.ibm.com] has joined #openttd 14:09:47 *** norbert79 is now known as Guest181 14:13:25 <Belugas> hello 14:15:12 <Belugas> [03:53] * Rubidium wonders whether Belugas' son is has done any computer science related studies <-- unless he has done it behind my back, unless it involves car racing game, no, i really doubt that :) 14:17:19 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:17:33 <planetmaker> a completely realistic 'hello' to Belugas :-) 14:19:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas is back to the right time, it seems ;) 14:19:35 <Belugas> looks like it indeed :) 14:19:38 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 14:20:06 * Belugas shivers at realism when looking at all that realism related stuff on his desk... 14:35:42 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:36:08 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 14:39:09 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 14:40:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't suppose "init 1" is a sensible thing to do from an ssh console :p 14:41:03 <planetmaker> depends on the startup-scripts at runlevel 1 and its crontab 14:48:05 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: does it work? :-P 14:49:18 *** Guest181 is now known as norbert79 14:52:59 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:53:56 <Chris_Booth> I love playing openttd in 1704 with sailing ships 14:54:18 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has joined #openttd 14:54:44 * peter1138 tries to remember the last time he properly played a game 14:56:28 <Rubidium> 1995-ish? 14:56:41 <peter1138> probably :p 14:56:58 * norbert79 just got addicted to SWAT 4... Harder than thought... 14:57:10 <peter1138> well, i meant a game of openttd 14:57:20 <norbert79> Oh... Well, me, I played it last week 14:57:23 <norbert79> Single 14:57:45 <norbert79> not much just as few hours during night 14:59:09 <Chris_Booth> I only wanted to look at the sailing ships 14:59:16 <Chris_Booth> and now have a nice network of canals 14:59:47 <norbert79> lol 15:17:42 *** mikl [~mikl@2904ds1-mrb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:20:51 *** avdg [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:14 *** avdg [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 15:21:30 *** avdg [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:21:53 *** avdg [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 15:28:31 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 15:29:51 *** mikl [~mikl@0166400103.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 15:32:31 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8933.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:52:06 *** mikl [~mikl@0166400103.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by Peer Gynt] 16:00:43 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 16:06:11 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 16:10:24 *** Mortomes|Work [~MortomesW@mail.qps.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:20:14 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:21:02 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice4n2.emea.ibm.com] has left #openttd [] 16:23:08 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.9.61] has joined #openttd 16:29:40 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-84-42-201-222.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 16:35:33 *** avdg1 [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:38:15 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:14 *** avdg is now known as Guest200 16:39:14 *** avdg1 is now known as avdg 16:39:14 *** avdg [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:25 *** avdg [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:42:52 *** Guest200 [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:49:53 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f722fb7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:57:06 *** avdg1 [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:03:50 *** avdg [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:06:20 *** DayDreamer [~pouzara@80.95.101.194] has joined #openttd 17:11:24 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff373.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:12:03 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@2.124.130.198] has joined #openttd 17:14:08 *** DayDreamer [~pouzara@80.95.101.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:18:15 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 17:46:05 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5D66.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 17:46:19 <Belugas> "To make OpenTTD more realistic, I think there should be an option which allows you to sell used vehicles to other companies." 17:46:23 <Belugas> COME ON!!!! 17:46:39 <Belugas> this is and incredible STUPID argument!!! 17:46:39 *** fjb is now known as Guest212 17:46:41 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFD380.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:47:06 <Belugas> yeah, the game will be so freakingly realistic!!! YOU SEEL YOUR VEHICLL!!! 17:47:22 <Belugas> man, i'm going to be hooked to life tio the game this way! 17:47:28 <Belugas> grrrrr.... 17:47:29 <AveiMil> Is there documentaiton on the inflation mechanic in OpenTTD? All I can find is: http://wiki.openttd.org/Inflation 17:47:43 <glx> it's random 17:47:46 <Qantourisc> AveiMil: when in doubt source code :/ 17:47:52 <Belugas> the Sources, my young apprentice, the Sources! 17:47:54 <AveiMil> I don't know how to read the source code. 17:48:04 <Belugas> can you read english? 17:48:10 <AveiMil> Barely 17:48:14 <Qantourisc> :) 17:48:22 <Belugas> obviously :D 17:48:30 <Prof_Frink> Belugas should be more realistic. 17:48:59 <Qantourisc> I'm translating: "Waiting: Nothing" 17:49:01 <Belugas> o... it's coming from Prof_Frink... no need to argue about realism :D 17:49:10 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-86-49-8-184.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:49:19 <Belugas> he's as much a loon as i can be ;) 17:49:20 <AveiMil> realism must take second place to gameplay 17:49:27 <Belugas> third.. 17:49:28 <AveiMil> or 3rd 17:49:29 <Belugas> fourth... 17:49:30 <AveiMil> or 4th 17:49:30 <AveiMil> :D 17:49:42 <Belugas> or... none? 17:49:52 <Qantourisc> Now there are 2 ways i can translate it: "Waiting: nill" or "Waiting: nothing to be transported" 17:50:41 <Belugas> but seriously, no, there is nothing very specal (not as realistic acceleration anyway) about inflation 17:50:47 <Belugas> it just goes up and down 17:50:59 <Belugas> randomly, as glx mentionned 17:51:24 <Qantourisc> AveiMil: maybe there is something _specific_ you wish to know about it ? 17:51:26 <Belugas> economic cycle is not really of an interest, anyway 17:51:56 <AveiMil> Qantourisc, well for one if it has any effect on gameplay otehr than make all the numbers bigger over time... 17:52:11 <Qantourisc> AveiMil: yes 17:52:27 <Qantourisc> AveiMil: it makes you loose money if you cannot keep up with the inflation 17:52:31 <Belugas> it make the game more realistic 17:52:47 <Qantourisc> AveiMil: also yesterday they mentioned that costs inflate faster, as a result, making everything more expensive to do 17:52:50 <AveiMil> Inflation generally increases income too 17:53:05 <AveiMil> so I'm wondering if it increases expenses more than incom... 17:53:09 <Qantourisc> AveiMil: yes, but if your investment return is smaller due to it 17:53:47 *** Guest212 [~frank@p5DDFD4C5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:53:50 <frosch123> AveiMil: expenses increase one percent point more than expenses 17:54:01 <frosch123> *than income :s 17:54:10 <Qantourisc> frosch123: is there way to turn this up ? 17:54:19 <Qantourisc> frosch123: later in the game money roles in :D 17:54:48 <Qantourisc> No comments on how i should translate "Waiting: nothing" ? 17:54:53 <AveiMil> I'm trying to balance the game via my NewGRF so I need to take inflation into account 17:54:58 <AveiMil> makes it much more complicated 17:55:10 <frosch123> Qantourisc: get the source, edit StartupEconomy(), compile, and play 17:55:22 <Qantourisc> frosch123: what ? 17:55:35 <Qantourisc> frosch123: wrong answer :) 17:55:41 <Qantourisc> frosch123: i know how to edit it 17:55:50 <Belugas> no, only possible answer other than : i'll do it for you 17:56:09 <Qantourisc> Belugas: regarding my question ? 17:56:18 <Qantourisc> Belugas: or regadrings AveiMil's ? 17:56:44 <Belugas> ho... frosch123 answered to AveiMil while naming you... 17:57:00 <Qantourisc> Belugas: aaa :) 17:57:16 <Qantourisc> frosch123: sorry frosch123 17:57:17 <Belugas> bad frosch123.. get a coffee you sportster 17:57:32 <frosch123> now, you confused me 17:57:35 <Qantourisc> to think of it 17:57:42 <AveiMil> If that was a answer to me, I don't get it. 17:57:46 <Qantourisc> I think i'll translate it as "Waiting: nill" 17:58:46 * frosch123 grips on "coffee" 18:00:01 <AveiMil> can someone figure out for me how much in % purcahse costs go up over the course of 100 years in the game? 18:00:07 <AveiMil> due to inflation 18:00:21 <frosch123> @calc 1.02 ** 100 18:00:22 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 7.24464611825 18:00:26 <frosch123> @calc 1.05 ** 100 18:00:26 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 131.501257846 18:00:47 <Qantourisc> AveiMil: 1 worth: math :) 18:00:48 <AveiMil> inflation rate is 5%? 18:00:59 <Qantourisc> *word 18:01:01 <frosch123> AveiMil: you can configure between 2 and 5 18:01:20 <Qantourisc> frosch123: i'll change mine to 5% then :D 18:01:35 <AveiMil> where? advanced settings show on or off 18:01:39 <frosch123> Qantourisc: i thought you wanted to make it harder? 18:01:44 <Qantourisc> frosch123: yes :) 18:01:54 <frosch123> Qantourisc: but low inflation is harder 18:01:58 <Qantourisc> frosch123: ow ? 18:02:01 <SmatZ> AveiMil: in difficulty settings 18:02:08 <frosch123> due to the one percent point difference of income and expenses 18:02:09 <Qantourisc> frosch123: i'm confused ? 18:02:17 <Qantourisc> frosch123: aaa :) 18:02:39 <AveiMil> there's no inflation option in difficulty here 18:02:43 <frosch123> 1% on income with 2% on expenses vs. 4% on income and 5% on expenses 18:02:45 <AveiMil> unless it's directly linked to intrrest rates 18:03:10 <frosch123> yes, it is 18:03:29 <Qantourisc> Ok i'm going to ask the channel a general question to prevent all further questions from me: 18:03:31 <frosch123> banks do not earn anything :p 18:03:42 <Qantourisc> Should I translate the exact meaning, or what it should be ? 18:03:57 <AveiMil> so inflation rate is intrest rate + 1? 18:04:05 <Qantourisc> AveiMil: no 18:04:16 <AveiMil> it only goes up to 4 18:04:17 <Qantourisc> AveiMil: the inflation of the COST is +1 18:04:19 <AveiMil> so what's thsi 2-5 18:04:27 <Qantourisc> AveiMil: maybe he made a mistake ? 18:04:43 <AveiMil> Unforgivable 18:04:44 <AveiMil> :) 18:05:07 <frosch123> is it 2-4? maybe :) 18:05:15 <frosch123> iirc tto was up to 6 or so 18:05:31 <AveiMil> @calc 1.04 ** 100 18:05:31 <DorpsGek> AveiMil: 50.5049481843 18:05:55 <SmatZ> _economy.interest_rate = _settings_game.difficulty.initial_interest; 18:05:56 <SmatZ> _economy.infl_amount = _settings_game.difficulty.initial_interest; 18:05:57 <AveiMil> the cost of a 10K car in OpenTTD will be 50K after 100 years then eh? 18:05:58 <SmatZ> _economy.infl_amount_pr = max(0, _settings_game.difficulty.initial_interest - 1); 18:06:01 <frosch123> @calc 1.02 ** 100 / 1.01 ** 100 18:06:01 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 2.67842689927 18:06:04 <SmatZ> so yes, it's linked to interest rate :) 18:06:06 <frosch123> @calc 1.04 ** 100 / 1.03 ** 100 18:06:06 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 2.62791588052 18:06:19 <frosch123> ok, no big deal :) 18:06:34 <Qantourisc> frosch123: so i should pick more inflaction then :D 18:07:04 <Belugas> some users of some countries might argue that these rates are not realistic... 18:07:28 <SmatZ> :) 18:07:31 <Qantourisc> Belugas: you just said it yourself 18:07:38 <Qantourisc> "SOME countries" 18:07:54 <Qantourisc> indicating it's relastic in others, meaning it's realastic 18:08:47 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa326.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:09:05 <frosch123> Qantourisc: i hope you are not from around montreal 18:09:12 <dih> LOL# 18:09:19 *** Joni_ [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-fe00dc00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 18:09:24 <dih> else you are in for a spanking from the daddy :-P 18:09:25 <Qantourisc> frosch123: hmmm ? 18:09:53 <Qantourisc> Hell in the past there have been intrests of 10% ! 18:11:07 <Rubidium> 10%? That's closer to the lover limit 18:11:24 <frosch123> there were also -6% :p 18:12:34 <frosch123> what's the "lovel limit"? the amount of money which survives a shoe shop? 18:13:01 * Rubidium guesses he isn't awake yet 18:13:11 <frosch123> hmm, typos on quoting typos ... 18:13:27 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 18:13:58 <SmatZ> :) 18:14:29 *** Joni- [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-fe00dc00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:14:32 <AveiMil> When you start a new game at for instance 1970, it factors in the inflation rate you would have had if you had started at 1950 and played to 1970? 18:14:55 <AveiMil> Dosen't look like it 18:14:59 <SmatZ> no 18:15:28 <AveiMil> any console command to to that? :P 18:15:34 <SmatZ> no 18:15:41 <frosch123> that's why it is increasing hard to play with dbset in later startyears :p 18:23:56 <AveiMil> dbset? 18:24:59 <frosch123> some ancient cruft 18:25:12 <frosch123> :p 18:25:33 <frosch123> a train newgrf from 2005 in the spirit of duke nukem 18:25:41 <SmatZ> :) 18:27:52 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:30:33 <AveiMil> are you high? 18:33:55 <SmatZ> what, who? 18:34:12 <frosch123> on coffee? 18:37:33 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has joined #openttd 18:39:40 <SmatZ> @seen xiong 18:39:40 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: xiong was last seen in #openttd 7 hours, 27 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <xiong> If I can persuade the Harrisburg local authority to let me build the damn platforms. I've already invested a million bucks in track, tunnels, and signals. 18:39:47 * Rubidium is high on dihydrogenmonooxide and some other stuff like urea, chloride, sodium, etc 18:40:02 <SmatZ> we should certainly ban those drugs! 18:40:43 *** DustSpinner [~DustSpinn@h35012.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 18:40:43 <glx> dihydrogenmonooxide <-- I call that water :) 18:40:53 <SmatZ> :) 18:41:03 <SmatZ> all people who use that drug die sooner or later 18:41:13 * Rubidium slaps glx for spoiling it for AveiMil 18:41:16 <SmatZ> and they die even sooner when they don't use it :p 18:41:31 <Prof_Frink> Or when they use too much of it. 18:41:47 * Belugas is high on apnea 18:42:00 <glx> Belugas: no, you're deep ;) 18:42:01 <SmatZ> http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k25/craver_vii/dhmo.gif 18:42:23 <planetmaker> :-) 18:42:38 <Belugas> lol 18:42:58 <Belugas> good one, glx, very good one!! 18:43:43 * Prof_Frink is high on ladders 18:45:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21117 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed) 18:45:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belarusian - 1 changes by KorneySan 18:45:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 1 changes by VoyagerOne 18:45:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: czech - 1 changes by marek995 18:45:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by glx 18:45:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: korean - 1 changes by junho2813 18:45:44 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 18:47:23 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 18:47:50 *** Zen0x [~Zen0x@cm-84.211.233.232.getinternet.no] has joined #openttd 18:52:44 *** elmz_ [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 18:57:22 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: .] 18:58:12 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:00:29 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:02:12 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:02:44 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 19:04:11 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 19:06:33 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [] 19:09:11 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 19:10:31 *** saronpasu [~saronpasu@catv075-208.lan-do.ne.jp] has joined #openttd 19:17:53 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa326.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:24:35 <__ln__> http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2010/10/siberian-ghost-cities-scare.html 19:25:44 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:26:15 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has joined #openttd 19:33:32 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 19:36:49 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:39:23 *** Zuu [~Zuu@2.69.91.210] has joined #openttd 19:40:26 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.104.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:41:22 * Zuu wonders if it is a good sign that nobody yet has commented his last release of CluelessPlus 19:41:29 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.104.150] has joined #openttd 19:41:48 <Zuu> but it has got 418 downloads, so at least someone has probably tested it. 19:42:55 *** ashb [~ash@callisto.firemirror.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:43:10 *** ashb [~ash@callisto.firemirror.com] has joined #openttd 19:43:58 <Zuu> (it is just a bug-fix release but at least one of them seems to have been fairly critical) 19:45:09 *** Muddy [muddy@playing.OpenTTD.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:49:26 <SmatZ> Zuu: cluelessplus, the smileyAI? :) 19:50:53 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa326.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:50:54 <SmatZ> Zuu: it seems to sometimes build dead stations 19:52:14 <SmatZ> http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/clueless.png 19:52:45 <SmatZ> looks better now 19:52:52 <SmatZ> the stations got destroyed :) 19:59:26 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8933.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 20:00:08 *** saronpasu [~saronpasu@catv075-208.lan-do.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:05:22 <__ln__> your screenshot is laughing at us! 20:05:40 *** Zuu [~Zuu@2.69.91.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:06:10 <SmatZ> :D 20:06:19 <Markk> __ln__: In Soviet Russia, the screenshot laughs at you! 20:06:25 <SmatZ> :) 20:12:43 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:47 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 20:13:44 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d822e88.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:18:52 *** Zuu [~Zuu@2.67.192.186] has joined #openttd 20:20:13 <Zuu> SmatZ: Are you sure that "0 I11 :D" is not from a connection under construction? 20:20:19 <Zuu> (sorry, I got a phone call) 20:21:26 <Zuu> or any of the other CluelessPlus stations around the power plant. 20:21:46 * andythenorth ponders slicing Sugar Refinery 20:21:52 <Zuu> Or did you talk about the yellow truck stop that next to green HQ? 20:22:43 <andythenorth> hmm 20:22:53 <andythenorth> with png, do I need to slice at all? 20:23:01 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2076.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:24:34 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa326.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:36 *** Muddy [muddy@playing.OpenTTD.no] has joined #openttd 20:26:49 <SmatZ> Zuu: it probably was, later the station got removed 20:27:01 <SmatZ> oen station got removed and other got connected :) 20:27:16 <Zuu> Good 20:27:16 <SmatZ> they were just unconnected for quite long time, so I thought they are forgotten somehow 20:29:23 <Zuu> Could be the road pathfinder that took long time to figure out that no path could be found. It tries from one end for X number of iterations and then from the other end for Y number of interations. X is quite small while Y is really the limit of how long time it will pathfind. 20:30:26 <Zuu> By setting X to zero you would minimize the time it takes to find a path if there is a path. The size of X depends how large islands that can be detected without trying *any* route to the island. 20:31:18 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-164-132.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:40:03 <Belugas> #we're on the road to nowhere 20:41:31 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-136.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 20:46:20 <andythenorth> Belugas: or the road to hell :P 20:47:00 * andythenorth wonders when we're driving home for christmas? 20:47:39 <planetmaker> I'd suspect about 17h after Church for the children 20:50:33 <Belugas> #HIGHWAY TO HELL 20:51:28 *** avdg [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 20:51:29 *** avdg1 [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:52:08 *** avdg1 [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 20:56:57 *** avdg1 [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:20 *** avdg1 [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 20:57:35 * Zuu hopes the highway is congested so that the ride takes longer time. :-) 20:59:31 *** avdg [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:00:41 <Belugas> #Riders On The Storm 21:03:39 * Rubidium opens the doors to good music :) 21:07:32 *** DustSpinner [~DustSpinn@h35012.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:07:47 *** DustSpinner [~DustSpinn@h35012.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 21:13:47 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:17:22 *** Markk_ [~mark@rikskriminalpolisen.com] has joined #openttd 21:21:44 *** SpComb [terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:22:55 <Belugas> lol 21:22:59 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r21118 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Name and deduplicate some magic numbers. 21:23:09 <Belugas> quite good music indeed :D 21:25:05 *** SpComb [terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has joined #openttd 21:26:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r21119 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Helicopter flight altitude was determined inconsistently in different places. 21:28:37 <AveiMil> Can you change introduction date via NewGRF? 21:29:04 <Belugas> of a vehicle? yes 21:29:16 <Belugas> of a house? yes 21:29:25 <AveiMil> introduction_date I guess 21:29:33 <Belugas> intro date of what? 21:29:37 <AveiMil> aircraft 21:29:43 <Belugas> yes you can indeed 21:29:58 <AveiMil> introduction_date: 1976;? 21:30:02 <AveiMil> just like that? 21:30:16 <Belugas> to ways: 21:30:21 <Belugas> two ways: 21:30:22 <Belugas> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Planes#Long_format_introduction_date_1A_ 21:30:33 <frosch123> Belugas: AveiMil uses nml :) 21:30:52 <Belugas> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0General#Date_of_introduction 21:30:54 <Belugas> ho... 21:30:56 <Belugas> welll 21:31:01 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 21:31:09 <Belugas> sorry and forget about my presence :) 21:31:10 <frosch123> AveiMil: introduction_date: date(1925,1,1); 21:31:34 <AveiMil> thank you 21:31:39 <frosch123> (copied from ogfx-trains) 21:31:43 *** Markk [~markk@213.229.75.82] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:32:09 *** Markk_ is now known as Markk 21:34:11 <frosch123> Belugas: our days of plain nfo are counted :) the younger guys take over with something better 21:34:17 <frosch123> i also need to learn nml now :) 21:34:25 <Belugas> hehhe 21:34:31 <Belugas> makes that two :) 21:34:40 <AveiMil> is nml something developed FOR OpenTTD? 21:34:46 <AveiMil> or is it something that's used for other things? 21:35:14 * andythenorth feels old 21:35:19 <andythenorth> stuck with this nfo thing :P 21:35:29 <frosch123> AveiMil: there is also effort to make ttdp suitable for it 21:35:53 <frosch123> or the other way around :p 21:36:01 <AveiMil> ttdp? 21:36:16 <Belugas> hehehhe 21:36:25 <Belugas> youger guys indeed :) 21:36:29 <Rubidium> shinkansen! 21:36:32 <Belugas> TTD Patch 21:36:36 <Belugas> the other project 21:37:05 <AveiMil> I see, I thought that was "pre" OpenTTD 21:37:06 <frosch123> AveiMil: http://wiki.openttd.org/TTDPatch 21:37:13 <Belugas> so if you see ottd, that's us, if you see ttdp, it's them, if you see ottdp, it's everyone! 21:37:25 * frosch123 enjoys linking to ottd wiki about ttdp :p 21:38:02 <AveiMil> so ttdp is just a patch for the original, basically 21:38:14 <AveiMil> or mod, wahtever you call it 21:38:20 <frosch123> depends no the definition of 'just' 21:38:33 <AveiMil> meaning you need the original game 21:38:38 <frosch123> yes 21:39:15 <AveiMil> can't imagine ttdp being anywhere near as populare as openttd 21:41:23 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 21:42:22 <Rubidium> the servers running the *.ttdpatch.net domains get (combined) more traffic than the server running the *.openttd.org domain 21:42:23 <Belugas> "just" hehehe 21:43:00 <Belugas> it's quite an incredible patch, in fact. 21:44:32 <AveiMil> I'm sure it is, dind't mean it like that. 21:45:04 <AveiMil> odd, OpenTTD needs to advertsie :D 21:45:19 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [] 21:45:54 <Rubidium> word of mouth seems to work quite well 21:46:39 <AveiMil> I found it by chance, randomly thought of the game I played as a 12 year old and googled transport tycoon 21:46:41 <Belugas> advertise is done with UDP 21:46:43 <AveiMil> and found a blog post 21:46:46 <Belugas> buwhahaha 21:46:53 <AveiMil> I was confused as hell 21:47:02 <AveiMil> as to wheter or not I needed original game graphics with OpenTTD 21:47:10 <AveiMil> or if it was the full game or what 21:48:17 <AveiMil> are and of you game devs/aspiring game devs? 21:48:21 <AveiMil> *any 21:48:30 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:49:07 <glx> before 1.0.0 original was needed 21:49:11 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-16-114-12.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 21:49:39 <Zuu> AveiMil: Many of those who have spoken recently are OpenTTD developers 21:50:23 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 21:50:26 <Zuu> As OpenTTD is a game, you could probably call them game developers if you wish. 21:50:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.203.206] has joined #openttd 21:51:20 <AveiMil> Let me rephrase, paid developers. 21:51:29 <AveiMil> Full time job thing. 21:51:57 <Zuu> At least one of them are, but not for _game_ development. 21:52:10 <glx> Zuu: I count 2 21:52:43 <Zuu> Also, you could include more than just programmers in 'developers'. 21:53:39 <Rubidium> does working on frameworks used in (some) game development count as "game developer"? 21:54:14 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:54:40 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8cd50.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 21:55:42 <AveiMil> not really 21:55:42 <AveiMil> :) 21:55:44 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-16-114-12.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:57 * andythenorth has been a game developer 21:56:01 <andythenorth> and is not any more 21:56:10 <AveiMil> cool, who did you work for and what games did you work on? 21:56:35 <andythenorth> flash games 21:56:47 <AveiMil> ah 21:56:53 <AveiMil> was that fun? 21:57:03 <andythenorth> for a while 21:57:46 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.216.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:59:35 <AveiMil> the viechles speed/cost etc, where the stats pulled from the original? 21:59:42 <Terkhen> yes 22:00:02 <AveiMil> what where they thinking when they balanced the aircraft stats?! 22:00:02 <AveiMil> hehe 22:00:53 <glx> aircraft are meant to be 4 times slower than other vehicles 22:01:45 <AveiMil> I was more thinking about the various aircraft compared to the other aircrafts 22:01:52 <Belugas> i'm paid to play a cool game of cards 22:01:57 <Belugas> hem... 22:02:03 <AveiMil> you play poker? 22:02:05 <Belugas> program a cool game of cards 22:02:08 <Zuu> Belugas: ^^ 22:02:20 <Belugas> no, not quite poker :) 22:02:33 <Belugas> my cards have exotic names, like... 22:02:35 <Belugas> visa 22:02:36 <AveiMil> so not a professional poker player then 22:02:38 <Belugas> mastercard 22:02:42 <AveiMil> ah :D 22:02:44 <glx> amex 22:02:50 <Belugas> :) 22:02:53 <AveiMil> program transaction code thingymagik? 22:02:56 <Prof_Frink> tesco clubcard 22:02:59 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 22:02:59 *** George is now known as Guest241 22:02:59 *** George|2 is now known as George 22:03:22 <Belugas> quite :) 22:04:23 <AveiMil> I'm an application installation packager, if OpenTTD needs someone to make .msi installer files for OpenTTD I'd be happy to help 22:05:00 <Zuu> There is a compile farm that does that work IIRC. 22:05:21 <glx> we have exe installer for now, and it's enough 22:05:23 <Zuu> Maybe not for nightlies, but for stables. 22:05:59 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d822e88.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:06:30 <Zuu> For nightlies there is http://wiki.openttd.org/Updaters 22:07:00 <Zuu> http://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTD_Updaters * 22:08:51 *** Guest241 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:09:09 * frosch123 counts three 'professional' developers in the team 22:10:26 *** avdg1 is now known as avdg 22:10:39 <Belugas> mh... i count 4 22:11:08 <frosch123> good that we know each other so well :) 22:11:11 <Belugas> peter1138, frosch123, Alberth and I 22:11:26 <Belugas> am i right? 22:11:28 <glx> orudge too 22:11:34 <glx> IIRC 22:11:51 <Rubidium> nah, crossover development isn't software development :) 22:12:01 <SmatZ> Rubi isn't a professional (yet)? 22:12:19 <Rubidium> SmatZ: exactly 22:12:23 <__ln__> how do you define 'professional' anyway 22:12:27 <Rubidium> + :( 22:12:30 <SmatZ> __ln__: what you do for linig 22:12:33 <SmatZ> *living 22:12:35 <SmatZ> :( 22:12:39 <frosch123> __ln__: 'paid', not to confuse with 'good' 22:12:43 <SmatZ> :-D 22:12:49 <AveiMil> is a hobo a professional 22:12:49 <AveiMil> ? 22:13:29 <SmatZ> "A hobo is a migratory worker or homeless vagabond, often penniless." hmm 22:13:39 <AveiMil> lol 22:14:36 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:15:24 <Rubidium> there's even an annual hobo convention, so it must have some degree of professionalism 22:16:02 <SmatZ> :-) 22:16:07 <Belugas> yeah, paid =professional. Does not mean good, just paid :) 22:17:19 <__ln__> "did nothing the whole day, still got paid" = professional 22:17:25 <SmatZ> :D 22:17:37 * Belugas is not a professional, in this case... 22:17:58 <SmatZ> :) 22:18:02 <AveiMil> you do nothing and don't even get paid? 22:18:39 * andythenorth wonders what he would be defined as 22:18:48 <glx> Belugas doesn't compile in his head, he's not a real dev ;) 22:18:56 <Rubidium> andythenorth: a maccie? 22:19:35 <AveiMil> Are Mac users allowed in here? 22:19:35 <Belugas> glx, you know me so well :D 22:19:36 <AveiMil> :) 22:19:44 * avdg hides 22:19:56 <glx> AveiMil: we'd prefer Mac devs 22:20:03 <glx> users are useless 22:20:08 <SmatZ> :P 22:20:10 <SmatZ> nah 22:20:13 <glx> they can't fix bugs 22:20:17 <SmatZ> we love OpenTTD users :) 22:20:26 <SmatZ> without users, our work would be useless :) 22:20:38 <Rubidium> glx: lies... they report bugs to make the statistics of the badness of the Mac OS X port more overwhelming 22:20:40 <frosch123> but less annoying :p 22:20:48 <SmatZ> :) 22:20:52 * andythenorth doesn't report OS X bugs 22:21:05 * andythenorth reports newgrf requests 22:21:13 <andythenorth> chuck norris reports OS X bugs 22:21:37 <avdg> ^ is it that bad? :p 22:21:38 <glx> last one is nice but I don't know if planetmaker reported it 22:21:40 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-105-165.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:21:58 <SmatZ> glx: yeah, it looks very broken for no apparent reason 22:22:03 <andythenorth> avdg: works ok for me 22:22:16 <Rubidium> https://secure.openttd.org/bugs/task/4210/getfile/6805/Bildschirmfoto%202010-11-07%20um%2023.19.43.png <- I guess he did :) 22:22:19 <glx> SmatZ: it's OSX, no need for a reason 22:22:25 <SmatZ> :P 22:22:56 <__ln__> glx: are you Rubidium's alter ego? 22:23:00 <avdg> its just software, its made to produce an output and not errors :p 22:23:02 *** Yexo_ is now known as Yexo 22:23:42 <glx> __ln__: no, but at least something working on win9x usually still works on win7 22:23:49 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-20-252.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 22:23:52 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 22:23:55 <glx> and that's clearly not true on OSX 22:24:06 <SmatZ> errors â output 22:25:03 <__ln__> glx: that's also a burden, they cannot ever deprecate anything. 22:25:05 <SmatZ> or better, errors â output 22:26:01 * andythenorth ships a Sugar Refinery 22:26:04 <frosch123> luckily we can deprecate osx :p 22:26:08 <SmatZ> :) 22:26:20 * andythenorth deprecates seld 22:26:22 <andythenorth> self /s 22:26:56 <frosch123> yeah, nfo developers are also deprecated :p 22:27:06 * andythenorth deprecates being awake 22:27:08 <SmatZ> :) 22:27:54 <Eddi|zuHause> <Rubidium> https://secure.openttd.org/bugs/task/4210/getfile/6805/Bildschirmfoto%202010-11-07%20um%2023.19.43.png <- I guess he did :) <-- that looks... interesting... 22:28:15 <Eddi|zuHause> like an obiwan in 2D->1D array access translation 22:28:34 <Eddi|zuHause> during deciding which rectangle to redraw 22:28:35 <glx> Eddi|zuHause: but only for x86_64 22:28:50 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: it seems some ground sprites are not drawn, for some reason 22:28:54 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: except it follows the shape of the sprites 22:29:17 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... so a bug in the spritecache access? 22:29:24 <SmatZ> there might be a valgrind for OSX... 22:30:58 <SmatZ> it could be some broken linking/whatever 22:31:32 * frosch123 also guesses for some compiler incompatibility 22:31:53 <frosch123> some signed/unsigned 32bit/64bit issue 22:32:37 <andythenorth> good night 22:32:47 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:32:47 <SmatZ> it works fine under x86_64 linux / windows 22:33:38 <SmatZ> at least we can rule out endian issues :) 22:33:39 <glx> frosch123: I remember a nice signed/unsigned issue on windows :) 22:35:08 <glx> @commit 20722 22:35:12 <DorpsGek> glx: Commit by glx :: r20722 trunk/src/statusbar_gui.cpp (2010-09-03 12:52:09 UTC) 22:35:13 <DorpsGek> glx: -Fix (r20719): signed/unsigned side effect makes a small negative value become a big positive value 22:35:51 <frosch123> yeah, something like that :) 22:36:05 <SmatZ> :) 22:36:24 <SmatZ> pm uses gcc I think 22:36:35 <frosch123> apple gcc 22:36:38 <planetmaker> he does 22:36:44 <frosch123> (at least i expect) 22:36:53 <SmatZ> hello planetmaker :) 22:36:55 <frosch123> evening planetmaker 22:37:10 <planetmaker> self-compiled gcc goesn't compile openttd on OSX. Hello folks :-) 22:40:07 <Rubidium> even then Apple seems to be using llvm for their "latest" gcc 22:40:24 <planetmaker> yes. that works here, too 22:40:33 <SmatZ> clang/llvm almost compiles openttd nowadays :) 22:40:48 <planetmaker> almost ;-) 22:41:03 <planetmaker> default gcc also almost compiles openttd on osx :-P 22:41:16 <SmatZ> :D 22:41:32 <SmatZ> well, there's one bug I mentioned before you became a dev 22:41:44 <planetmaker> hm? 22:41:54 <SmatZ> there's one (mis)understanding of standard, where clang refuses to behave the same way as other compilers 22:42:07 <SmatZ> (I have to say I agree with the behaviour of clang) 22:42:19 <planetmaker> now I'm curious, what is it? 22:42:58 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8933.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:43:17 <SmatZ> struct A { protected: static int i; }; struct B { friend struct C; }; struct C { C() { A::i = 0; } }; 22:43:42 <SmatZ> if it compiles depends on whether definition of B is visible when compiling C::C() 22:44:19 <SmatZ> clang doesn't compile 22:44:20 <SmatZ> *it 22:44:31 <SmatZ> other compilers compile it only when definition of B is visible 22:44:31 <frosch123> doesn't that lack some " : B"? 22:44:33 *** Zen0x [~Zen0x@cm-84.211.233.232.getinternet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:44:50 <SmatZ> frosch123: I think it's fine as it is, but I might be wrong :) 22:44:53 <planetmaker> hm... 22:44:54 <SmatZ> actually... 22:44:59 <SmatZ> struct B : A { friend struct C; }; 22:45:08 <SmatZ> is was missing a ": A" 22:45:16 <frosch123> right, that way :) 22:45:40 <SmatZ> :-) 22:46:38 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f722fb7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:49:24 <frosch123> night 22:49:28 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff373.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:50:57 <Rubidium> night frosch et al. 22:51:03 <planetmaker> circular dependencies... can be trip-wires, I guess 22:51:47 <SmatZ> good night, Rubidium 22:52:14 <planetmaker> good night Rubidium 22:52:23 <planetmaker> and actually, good night SmatZ and others, too :-) 22:53:07 <SmatZ> good night, planetmaker :) 22:53:28 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19E13.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:49 *** Zuu [~Zuu@2.67.192.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:54:57 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 22:55:22 <Terkhen> good night everybody 22:55:44 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has quit [Quit: Quit] 22:55:49 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-86-49-8-184.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:56:34 <SmatZ> good night, Terkhen :) 23:09:44 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-20-252.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:11:51 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-26-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 23:11:54 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 23:15:57 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Quit: âI-n-v-i-s-i-o-nâ 3.2 (July '10)] 23:23:41 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-26-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:25:56 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-29-25.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 23:25:59 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 23:25:59 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:44:42 <AveiMil> Anyone around? 23:45:48 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-84-42-201-222.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:46:07 <SmatZ> kind of 23:46:59 *** PeterT [PeterT@peter.tarkoy.com] has joined #openttd 23:47:54 <AveiMil> Just finnished going through all the aircraft and balancing them as best I could relative to the other aircraft. Needs practical testing of course but it's a start. Looking for anyone willing to load up a game and look through the list to see if it makes sense/has problems. Can download here: http://www.aveimil.com/OpenTTD/ 23:49:33 <SmatZ> I am not really a newgrf guy 23:49:51 <SmatZ> though, whoever will review your grf, will prefer to see the nfo/nml instead 23:52:00 <AveiMil> much easier to see the changes in the ingame GUI 23:52:21 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Quit: Forlater kanalen] 23:52:30 <SmatZ> ok :) 23:54:45 <AveiMil> it's the aircraft stats I want a second opinion on 23:54:49 <AveiMil> not the newgrf code 23:55:23 <AveiMil> :) 23:56:24 <SmatZ> I have no clue about aircraft 23:56:31 <SmatZ> Belugas likes planes :) 23:59:17 <AveiMil> Bellluuugaaas!! 23:59:20 *** avdg1 [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 23:59:54 *** avdg1 [~avdg@78-21-59-217.access.telenet.be] has left #openttd []