Log for #openttd on 12th November 2010:
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00:01:46  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i suppose naming a file "" makes it difficult to import :p
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00:03:35  <avdg> hmm is there anything such as an includepath?
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00:04:25  <SmatZ> in nml?
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00:29:04  <AveiMil>
00:29:05  <AveiMil> !!!
00:29:36  <AveiMil> are you happy now planetmaker?
00:29:47  <SmatZ> AveiMil: planetmaker is sleeping!
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00:31:21  <AveiMil> bastard
00:31:42  <SmatZ> planetmaker is not bastard, he's a very nice person :<
00:31:46  <SmatZ> Plane Speed Factor: 1/3
00:31:48  <AveiMil> I know I'm just joking
00:31:50  <SmatZ> interesting setting
00:31:51  <SmatZ> :)
00:32:00  <AveiMil> planetmaker, is my favourite planetmaker
00:32:04  <SmatZ> ;-)
00:32:17  <AveiMil> hehe
00:32:28  <SmatZ> people mostly use 1/1 or 1/4
00:32:53  <AveiMil> the only reason I have that is becasue I balanced the aircraft with that setting on
00:33:03  <AveiMil> I'm sure it's fine with other settings too, not sure how much of an impact it makes
00:33:36  <AveiMil> Now lets see how many will care to help me playtest, the success or failure of this mod will depend entierly on how many wants to play it.
00:33:46  <SmatZ> :)
00:34:00  <AveiMil> Can't test everything my self, sooooo many variables in balancing this game.
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01:03:52  <Eddi|zuHause> if you truely want to balance the game, start with making a superlinear cost [one that models the increased management effort needed in big companies, while not penalising small companies]
01:04:22  <Eddi|zuHause> currently the only non-linear cost is the inflation, and it has two flaws:
01:04:41  <Eddi|zuHause> 1) its meaning is counterintuitive (higher inflation makes the game easier)
01:05:01  <Eddi|zuHause> 2) it penalises small firms the same, maybe more than big ones
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01:11:44  <AveiMil> Not sure I understand what all that means in relation to the game context or if I have the skills and tools to do that.
01:12:29  <AveiMil> must sleep now
01:12:31  <AveiMil> good night
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01:14:06  <SmatZ> silly valgrind
01:14:11  <SmatZ> it crashes on my program
01:14:27  <SmatZ> but when I try to debug valgrind, it gives:
01:14:36  <SmatZ> $ valgrind --sim-hints=enable-inner valgrind ./a.out
01:14:42  <SmatZ> valgrind: You cannot run 'valgrind' directly.
01:14:43  <SmatZ> valgrind: You should use $prefix/bin/valgrind.
01:14:45  <SmatZ> boo :(
01:15:03  <SmatZ>  /usr/bin/valgind doesn't help...
01:20:50  <FauxFaux> Start debugging it, set argv[0], then continue!
01:23:12  <SmatZ> it won't work
01:23:25  <SmatZ> to what should I set argv[0]?
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01:34:00  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe there's two valgrinds in the path or something
01:35:03  <Eddi|zuHause> no, that's probably a silly remark ;)
01:44:43  <SmatZ> :)
01:44:58  <SmatZ> there's two valgrind on my command line
01:45:07  <SmatZ> and they hate each other :p
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01:54:38  <ccfreak2k> which valgrind
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04:29:56  <supermop> hello
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07:28:45  <avdg> hi
07:29:33  <Terkhen> good morning
07:30:41  <Rubidium> moi
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07:47:56  <planetmaker> moin
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08:02:25  <avdg> hmm, openttd doesn't open :o
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08:03:16  <avdg> hmm, stopid ports
08:04:15  <avdg> liblzma update and old lib was removed
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08:05:07  <avdg> :o make clear doesn't work too
08:05:39  <avdg> oh typo :p
08:06:23  <Alberth> that looks like a typo yeah :)
08:06:38  * avdg is too happy today :p
08:10:24  <avdg> finally, openttd works :p
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08:12:19  <avdg> :p I like the word "wereldontwikkeling" for the world generation screen
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08:42:43  <AveiMil> morning!
08:45:03  <Alberth> morning
08:49:43  <planetmaker> moin°
08:50:33  <AveiMil> planetmaker, are you please now? :-)
08:50:52  <planetmaker> it's not about pleasing me :-)
08:51:45  <planetmaker> But yes, I think it makes sense this way
08:52:28  <AveiMil> oh, it's all about pleasing you baby
08:54:29  <planetmaker> please don't.
08:54:52  <planetmaker> Don't mind me, but mind the community in general
08:55:18  <planetmaker> That's what I try to make my views based on, though
08:55:37  <AveiMil> you've got it all wrong
08:55:41  * AveiMil hails planetmaker
08:55:51  <AveiMil> ;-)
08:55:53  <planetmaker> I don't claim to be right
08:56:26  <AveiMil> I claim you're right.
08:56:27  <planetmaker> But what I said in this respect is what works best from my years of experience in this community
08:56:30  <AveiMil> That's enough :)
08:56:58  <AveiMil> Yes
08:58:04  <AveiMil> Well thanks for all your help thus far, I could not have done it without it.
09:03:21  <planetmaker> you're welcome :-)
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09:42:42  <norbert79> I think I will use this license for my releases in the future :)
09:42:44  <norbert79>
09:46:03  <avdg> whats next? wtfgetalicense? :p
09:46:10  <norbert79> :D
09:46:26  <norbert79> Nah, I just like the way.. Not complicated, plain, easy to understand :
09:46:28  <norbert79> :)
09:47:43  <avdg> true, but maybe a bit too easy for complex software
09:47:58  <norbert79> avdg: But not for a GRF :)
09:48:04  <planetmaker> hehe, norbert79. Indeed I kind of like it, too.
09:48:11  <planetmaker> avdg: why too easy?
09:48:14  <Alberth> how is software complexity related to license complexity?
09:49:14  <AveiMil> What the fuck is not clear in “DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO”? If you do not like the license terms, just relicense the work under another license.
09:49:15  <AveiMil> hahaha
09:49:19  <AveiMil> I like it.
09:49:37  <blathijs> WTFPL rules :-)
09:51:33  <avdg> the license itself doesn't tell anything actually, kinda the opposite of closed/restricted software
09:52:18  <Rubidium> actually, parts of the license make it really easy to make it just closed software
09:52:47  <avdg> that too :o
09:53:48  <Rubidium> license the Linux kernel under that license and I bet you that AMD comes with its own closed source kernel just to support their video cards
09:54:03  <Terkhen> :D
09:54:06  <planetmaker> :-)
09:54:38  <planetmaker> the wtfpl is actually a nice way to put the concept of 'public domain' into license terms
09:54:45  * Rubidium will look harder for a replacement laptop that doesn't have a nvidia or amd video card
09:55:08  <avdg> just a good wtfINeedALicense alternative :)
09:55:19  <AveiMil> Upgrading to frun OpenTTD at 100 fps?
09:55:34  <avdg> by running it on a supercomputer :)
09:55:43  <Rubidium> AveiMil: that's easy
09:55:57  <planetmaker> Rubidium: what's wrong with nvidea/amd video cards?
09:56:02  <AveiMil> :P
09:56:24  <Rubidium> small map, low details, no AI, no animation, fast forward
09:56:31  <Rubidium> oh, and low resolution
09:56:35  <planetmaker> AveiMil: just make the window 100x100 px and fast forward.... ^
09:56:43  <Rubidium> planetmaker: their drivers
09:56:47  <planetmaker> hm
09:57:15  <Alberth> AveiMil: and look at a lake instead of a busy station
09:57:22  <blathijs> Rubidium: Intel graphics, then?
09:57:35  <AveiMil> You all do realize I was joking?
09:57:36  <AveiMil> :S
09:58:01  <Rubidium> e.g. I'm running the May drivers for my video card because every release since messes up my browser/text editors when scrolling
09:58:27  <Rubidium> blathijs: that's the video card manufacturer I've had the best experience with
09:58:58  <Alberth> AveiMil: there are cases where such settings are needed
09:59:03  <Rubidium> and the free/open source ones just make my screen flicker randomly after a while
09:59:21  <AveiMil> okay
09:59:35  <Rubidium> (free/open source radeon drivers that is)
09:59:53  <planetmaker> <-- hehe. Fundamental concept of marketing is understood, eh, AveiMil ;-)
10:00:06  <Rubidium> well, or they don't support video acceleration which kinda sucks with 1080p content
10:00:06  <AveiMil> :D
10:00:31  * avdg stamps it as most usefull content of the day
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10:02:55  <norbert79> AveiMil: Sounds interesting
10:03:21  * norbert79 never really played through any company in Toyland... Might be that the time has come for a through game :)
10:04:03  <AveiMil> I really need play testers so gogogo :)
10:04:23  <norbert79> AveiMil: Maybe later today, I am sitting in the office atm :D
10:04:49  <planetmaker> AveiMil: those testers will surely come, no worries
10:04:50  <norbert79> the bastards dont let me play during working hours...
10:04:51  <AveiMil> hehe :)
10:04:57  <AveiMil> bastards!
10:05:23  <AveiMil> "What they don't know can't hurt them...."
10:05:25  <norbert79> AveiMil: Why don't you release this as an OpenTTD server too?
10:05:34  <planetmaker> but it might take maybe some patience. E.g. OpenGFX+Trains is available for weeks. Even on bananas. And only yesterday someone reported that there's no means to transport lumber...
10:05:38  <AveiMil> create a dedicated server you mean?
10:05:40  <norbert79> AveiMil: Sounds easy in a closed office-room, but hard in an open-space place :)
10:05:53  <norbert79> AveiMil: Indeed
10:05:57  <AveiMil> hehe indeed
10:06:01  <avdg> hint: invite the whole company to play :p
10:06:06  <norbert79> AveiMil: And release it to Bananas for easier downloading
10:06:10  <AveiMil> I hate open office room where my back is exposed.
10:06:18  <norbert79> AveiMil: It is, all the time
10:06:33  <AveiMil> Even if I'm not doing anything I'm not supposed to do, feel paranoid with people walking behind me
10:06:37  <norbert79> moment, have to walk back to my place... Just came out from a meeting :)
10:06:57  <AveiMil> are you chatting on your phone? :)
10:07:19  <AveiMil> not sure I should realease it to Bananas quite yet
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10:07:49  <planetmaker> it's a bit of a two-edged sword
10:07:54  <AveiMil> if a casual user downloads it expecting perfection and notice something is broken at this stage he might remove it and never pay attention to it again
10:08:20  <Forge> love your your work guys
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10:08:38  <planetmaker> that's nice to hear, Forge
10:08:45  <norbert791> sso
10:08:47  <norbert791> eh
10:08:51  <Alberth> AveiMil: explain in the description that it is a experimental version?
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10:09:32  <AveiMil> yeah but, they might not bother to check back, dunno, just want it a bit more solid first
10:09:34  <planetmaker> indeed. Maybe like TITLE-OF-MYGRF preview version
10:09:39  <norbert79> So, I really think that for real testing a Bananas release is a must. People not always going to the forums, but Bananas is easy to access
10:09:43  <AveiMil> we'll see though, maybe in a few days
10:09:47  <AveiMil> I might change my mind
10:10:01  <AveiMil> good point
10:10:03  <planetmaker> give it a week or so :-)
10:10:12  <AveiMil> Bananas enable easy upgrading?
10:10:15  <planetmaker> sure
10:10:18  <planetmaker> any time
10:10:21  <norbert79> Besides, some servers do offer GRFs, which are from Forum entries, and it drives me nuts not being able to download those from Bananas :)
10:10:22  <Alberth> 'teaser version' :)
10:10:29  <norbert79> AveiMil: It does...
10:10:39  <AveiMil> cool
10:10:45  <norbert79> AveiMil: I am always keeping my collections up to date, and earlier versions are also available there
10:10:48  <AveiMil> maybe I should just upload it there then
10:10:52  <planetmaker> AveiMil: just check out how it works for other grfs ;-)
10:10:57  <planetmaker> e.g. download now FIRS
10:11:10  <planetmaker> you'll find it easy to get the newer version next week or so ;-)
10:11:38  <norbert79> planetmaker: Right! Indeed
10:11:49  <AveiMil> I noticed there was a get updates or something button which I acciedentialy clicked and it appeard to update some my of addons
10:11:57  <AveiMil> so that's easy then
10:12:02  <planetmaker> the only thing which does not work without problems, of course, is updating the newgrf used in existing games.
10:12:08  <norbert79> AveiMil: And TAR the GRF together with the license :D
10:12:18  <planetmaker> But that's an issue which where updates were never meant to be used for
10:12:23  <AveiMil> haha yeah
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10:12:32  <AveiMil> ah
10:12:44  <norbert79> planetmaker: Agree, and besides where already saved games need those replacement manual changes are necessary, but works like charm
10:12:58  <norbert79> planetmaker: Had a similar issue with my big saved game, but that got solved easy
10:13:01  <planetmaker> well... they should not work at all ;-)
10:13:01  <AveiMil> well, is that banana spesific? Because I would update my NewGRF and load a save game, over and over to test
10:13:03  <AveiMil> worked fine
10:13:28  <planetmaker> updating newgrfs in savegames / running games has nothing to do with bananas
10:13:38  <planetmaker> bananas is just a convenient means to distribute newgrfs
10:13:39  <norbert79> AveiMil: If you have an updated GRF in your savegame you have to add the new version, and remove the old in your saved game manually... But thats it
10:14:05  <planetmaker> norbert79: and any support on any failure or crash is rendered void by those actions
10:14:08  <AveiMil> ah, probably worked for me then becasue I did not change version number
10:14:16  <planetmaker> :-O
10:14:22  <norbert79> planetmaker: Indeed, but I never had any issue nor crash so far
10:14:25  <AveiMil> when testing that is
10:14:34  <Alberth> AveiMil: it only means you were more lucky
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10:14:42  <AveiMil> lucky?
10:14:49  <planetmaker> AveiMil: no, you enabled the newgrf_developer_tools I assume and used reload_newgrfs?
10:15:02  <Alberth> AveiMil: 2 versions with the same number is a recipe for disasters in general
10:15:11  <norbert79> Alberth: Thats something meant for me
10:15:12  <AveiMil> no, that only worked in nightly
10:15:18  <planetmaker> which is a potentially dangerous action. That's why it's guarded by these switches
10:15:28  <norbert79> Alberth: And besides, no, it worked fine... Seleceted the new, removed the old, 'Apply', works...
10:15:31  <AveiMil> so I loaded a save game (from the same game) everytime I re-compiled my newgrf
10:16:00  <planetmaker> you make your life unnecessarily difficult when compared to how easy it is to test in nightlies
10:16:17  <Alberth> norbert79: it heavily depends on the NewGRF, it is easy to make one that breaks your game in various subtle and not-so-subtle ways
10:16:21  <planetmaker> norbert79: it appears to work fine is the better description
10:16:23  <AveiMil> well loading a save game is about as easy as putting down the console and using that command :)
10:16:29  <norbert79> Alberth: One example: Had one huge savegame with the Aviators add-on loaded, F1, NewGrf, added new, removed old, apply, works still :)
10:16:30  <planetmaker> But it doesn't really except in a few cases
10:16:41  <planetmaker> norbert79: you're incredibly lucky
10:16:49  <AveiMil> when is the next stable due?
10:16:49  <norbert79> planetmaker: All the time? :D
10:16:54  <planetmaker> yes
10:17:09  <norbert79> planetmaker: Noone has that much of luck :)
10:17:13  <Alberth> norbert79: so try that with FIRS 0.1 and 0.5.2 :p
10:17:18  <planetmaker> :-)
10:17:27  <norbert79> Alberth: lol, hey even I know, that might do some issues :D
10:17:28  <planetmaker> Or ISR 0.6 and 0.8
10:17:37  <norbert79> planetmaker: Never used ISR
10:17:44  <planetmaker> the station newgrf?
10:17:53  <norbert79> Wait, let me check what I am using
10:18:03  <planetmaker> industrial station renewal
10:18:09  <norbert79> yeah, yeah... Moment
10:18:17  * norbert79 is lookinmg for his pendrive
10:19:23  <norbert79> planetmaker:
10:19:41  <planetmaker> that's just your current newgrf list...
10:19:53  <planetmaker> and yes, you use ISR
10:19:58  <norbert79> planetmaker: Indeed, but thats what I am updating
10:20:07  <norbert79> and no had no issues with ISR
10:20:22  <norbert79> and thats the same what I am using for this savegame:
10:20:27  <planetmaker> you have the current one. But try to update a running, evolved game from ISR 0.6 to ISR 0.8
10:20:29  <norbert79> moment
10:20:41  <norbert79>
10:20:43  <planetmaker> you'll find yourself your game in no time in data nirvana
10:21:02  <norbert79> I guess I have not been going through that :)
10:21:09  <norbert79> Hah, I am an ANgel, Health 300 :D
10:21:15  <norbert79> No need for Nirvana :D
10:21:31  <planetmaker> <-- load one of those savegames
10:21:38  <planetmaker> or rather... try
10:21:44  <norbert79> planetmaker: Not possible... Office Space :)
10:22:27  <planetmaker> btw, norbert79, the pgs_station* grfs are obsoleted by ISR and not necessary
10:22:28  <norbert79> planetmaker: Btw, I also love add-ons with included docuemntations... Have some of those
10:22:40  <norbert79> planetmaker: It still offers some tiles, which are not in ISR
10:22:42  <planetmaker> yes, I love those, too
10:22:50  <planetmaker> (documentations)
10:22:56  <norbert79> planetmaker: I see :)
10:23:11  <planetmaker> that's why I ship all my newgrfs with one ;-)
10:24:24  <norbert79> planetmaker: - my current GRF list :)
10:25:55  <planetmaker> I guess except the apache one or so I do have them, too ;-)
10:26:15  <planetmaker> there have to be some which make up for the 250MB of newgrfs ;-)
10:26:20  <norbert79> planetmaker: This means only one thing! Glitch in the Matrix! :D
10:28:44  <norbert79> And can me please tell anyone, why I am listening to Lady Gagas Alejandro?
10:30:28  <AveiMil> you identify with the transgender community
10:31:10  <norbert79> Ok, now I lost the logic: What does Lady Gaga has to do with the transgender community?
10:31:40  <AveiMil> those rumours back a while ago about Lady Gaga having a penis
10:32:33  <norbert79> AveiMil: Well, she does seem a bit weird, but she had just overweight.. Check those videos about her while having a band, or when she was seen in the Sopranos
10:32:44  <norbert79> She is a girl, just an anoying one
10:35:04  <norbert79> Heh, her only appearance as actress was indeed that Sopranos episode appearntly, well, according to IMDB
10:35:43  <AveiMil> Don't care :)
10:35:55  <AveiMil> she could have a 12 inch rock hard dick for all I care
10:36:11  <norbert79> AveiMil: Well, you have some imagination I must say... :D
10:36:52  <AveiMil> aye :D
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10:37:55  <SmatZ> this place is getting creepy
10:38:18  <norbert79> SmatZ: Aye, agree :]
10:38:21  <planetmaker> hm... why does a paused OpenTTD eat 11% of the core's power?
10:38:32  <AveiMil> I'm sure I have nothing to do with that trend
10:38:34  <norbert79> planetmaker: Music?
10:38:35  <AveiMil> *whistles*
10:38:38  <planetmaker> nope
10:39:04  <norbert79> planetmaker: Is it real CPU usage or just 'want to have that much of CPU'?
10:39:30  <planetmaker> eh? It uses 11%
10:39:32  <avdg> openttd runs at 14% paused without music here
10:39:36  <norbert79> planetmaker: So real usage
10:39:42  <planetmaker> for a paused game that's IMHO not little
10:39:57  <norbert79> planetmaker: Agree... I would normally expect RAM usage, rather than CPU usage
10:40:06  <planetmaker> I don't care about RAM.
10:40:24  <AveiMil> My OpenTTD uses 0% when paused and minimized
10:40:25  <norbert79> AveiMil: So you don't, do you? :D
10:40:30  <planetmaker> of course that's not dropped by pausing an application
10:40:39  <planetmaker> not minimized, just paused
10:40:57  <norbert79> Maybe because it's not full screen?
10:40:58  <AveiMil> dosen't use anything just paused either
10:41:02  <AveiMil> well 0.48 it spiked at
10:41:04  <avdg> minimized doesn't drop here, maybe due the osx architecture
10:41:24  <AveiMil> 0% constalty
10:41:36  <norbert79> planetmaker: What OS?
10:41:45  <norbert79> planetmaker: Linux? Which distribution?
10:41:45  <planetmaker> yep, minimizing doesn't change a thing...
10:41:48  <AveiMil> fast forwarding minimized = 20%
10:41:52  <planetmaker> norbert79: OSX
10:42:19  <planetmaker> actually a osx 10.6.5 binary compiled for x86_64
10:42:23  <norbert79> planetmaker: Ok, that might be the reason behind that... Does OpenTTD use X under MacOS?
10:42:28  <planetmaker> no
10:42:37  <norbert79> ok, one reason less
10:42:39  <planetmaker> it uses the native window system
10:42:59  <planetmaker> but compiling openttd for X under OSX has no significant impact on the ressource usage in terms of cpu either
10:43:02  <norbert79> it must be some OSX issue
10:43:12  <norbert79> planetmaker: I wouldn't be so sure on that one
10:43:21  <planetmaker> norbert79: I am. I tested it
10:43:28  <norbert79> planetmaker: But i don't want to go into details, it has an affect.. Just think on OpenOffice pre 3.0
10:43:53  <planetmaker> but sdl is broken in terms of colours.
10:44:51  <norbert79> To be honest i wish I could test it, but I only had access to a 1994 MacOS back in 2000 once, and never touched a Mac since that
10:45:00  <norbert79> so I would not be a big help
10:45:04  <avdg> osx just renders screens and resize them (and can be used on multiple places like the windows overview), maybe can be a factor
10:45:30  <norbert79> avdg: Kinda like the remote control applications?
10:45:56  <norbert79> Or like XCMP?
10:47:50  <norbert79> eh, void the XCMP part
10:48:11  <norbert79> XDMCP what I meant
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10:50:14  <avdg> we should actually benchmark it
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10:51:40  <planetmaker> yes. and for each architecture ;-) i386, x86_64, ppc and ppc64 :-)
10:52:11  * planetmaker still ponders to re-define the meaning of 'universal' build :-)
10:52:34  <norbert79> lol
10:52:54  <norbert79> well, I have seen binaries which could been run under each architecture, there were also some projects started on these
10:53:18  <norbert79> but they really ended up afaik having the binaries merged together, making one huge file
10:53:38  * avdg hopes not on a 100mb binarie with support for offline installation of windows, linux, bsd and osx
10:53:42  <planetmaker> <-- norbert79 ;-)
10:54:29  <planetmaker> norbert79: binaries running under each architecture are the (preferred) default for OSX. So yes, OpenTTD provided such binaries. And provided you have also universally compiled libraries everyone with OSX can build thos universal binaries
10:54:30  <norbert79> planetmaker: Wouldn't you end up having one huge file this way? :)
10:54:35  <planetmaker> yes, you do
10:55:08  <norbert79> Incase for Linux generic binaries builds and Windows binaries the difference is just a few hundred kilobytes
10:55:14  <norbert79> but what about this?
10:55:23  <norbert79> How big would the file come to be?
10:56:10  <planetmaker> number of architectures * binary size
10:56:24  <norbert79> ouch
10:56:34  <norbert79> so at least 10 MB
10:56:37  <avdg> + additional files
10:56:46  <planetmaker> yes
10:56:59  <avdg> but these are shared
10:58:08  <Rubidium> in 0.7.5 it's 7.4 (zipped) Mac OS X universal, 3.3 zipped Windows, 3.4 zipped generic binary
10:58:36  <planetmaker> a single binary here is (uncompressed) 6.5MB
10:59:33  <norbert79> I see... But oh well, I know it's an issue, but at least we have the game for plenty of architectures :)
11:00:37  <planetmaker> norbert79: there are also different versions for win9x, 2k/XP and vista/7
11:00:55  <planetmaker> as well as for debian32, debian64, ubuntu32 and ubuntu64
11:00:56  <norbert79> planetmaker: I know, I always gather the latest macOS installer, all Windows and Linux binary
11:01:05  <norbert79> (Geneirc binaries)
11:06:07  <AveiMil> Reading the forums about upgrading to maglev/monorail tracks
11:06:55  <AveiMil> that should be something to develop for new versions, maybe a "magic tool" that if you click on a rail track it will try to upgrade all connected tracks with the new track type (assuming you hvae enough funds)
11:07:07  <AveiMil> no idea if that's hard or not
11:07:36  * avdg is dreaming about hybride rails and hybride trains
11:09:38  <planetmaker> avdg: just programme them...
11:09:48  <planetmaker> it's possible with newgrfs
11:10:08  <avdg> :p thats fast
11:10:09  <norbert79> AveiMil: You already can upgrade your tracks, but you cannot upgrade your trains...
11:10:28  <AveiMil> Not what I meant.
11:10:40  <AveiMil> That tool just upgrades each trile induvidually, right?
11:10:57  <avdg> in ttd it does
11:11:09  <norbert79> AveiMil: No, mass transformatiuon is possible too
11:11:14  <norbert79> AveiMil: To a given area
11:11:18  <avdg> but there is no convert tool too :o
11:11:26  <norbert79> ?
11:11:33  <avdg> in ttd :p
11:11:35  <norbert79> What did I use then in the past few years? :)
11:11:37  <norbert79> Ah
11:11:44  <norbert79> Well, not in TTD, but in OpenTTD :)
11:12:07  <AveiMil> ah, you can just draw a huge square
11:12:08  <planetmaker> -rw-r--r-- 7103444 12 Nov 12:11 bundles/ <-- @ norbert79 (i386 and x86_64 binaries in a bundle)
11:12:24  <norbert79> Nice :)
11:13:09  <AveiMil> well then that's great, if you play with my mod I don't see a problem because you won't be able to upgrade 50 trains at once (too expesnive) :D
11:13:38  <planetmaker> -rw-r--r--@  8183573 12 Nov 12:13 openttd-custom-h2873c535-OSX.dmg <-- though that'd actually be the 'better' file format
11:13:45  <norbert79> There is already a conversion tool in OpenTTD for changing railtypes... You have to only upgrade your trains manually
11:13:46  <AveiMil> but if you have three tracks running side by side and you only want to upgrade one of them
11:13:55  <AveiMil> a magic tool that does what I described would be handy
11:13:57  <norbert79> planetmaker: I prefer ZIP ;-)
11:14:22  <planetmaker> yes and no. dmg is something like an install-package
11:14:37  <planetmaker> just drag it into you app-folder and be done
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11:15:33  <planetmaker> more correctly it's a kind of virtual drive
11:19:29  * avdg wonders if osx is spending a lot of time and processorpower in waiting for semaphores and waiting
11:20:04  * planetmaker won't stop avdg doing some profiling ;-)
11:20:57  <avdg> well, I have 1 experiment in mind
11:21:17  <avdg> running an other light program with the same technology and compare it
11:25:45  <norbert79> just rocks...
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11:26:52  <AveiMil> Can you make a NewGRF that changes peoples advanced settings?
11:28:09  <planetmaker> no
11:28:34  <planetmaker> settings and newgrf are complements.
11:29:08  <planetmaker> they can influence eachother (esp. settings newgrf behaviour), but not modify them
11:29:19  <AveiMil> ok
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11:32:53  <DayDreamer>  Hi guys, could you help me? Version r21089 eating ~ 650mb of RAM on windows 7 64bit .. on ubuntu 32bit is everything ok. Any opinion why is ottd taking too much ram space?
11:33:24  <planetmaker> how much with 32bit? Running the same savegame?
11:33:24  <norbert79> wow
11:33:39  <DayDreamer> multiplayer openttdcoop
11:33:45  <AveiMil>
11:33:47  <planetmaker> @calc 2048*2048*7
11:33:47  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 29360128
11:33:56  <AveiMil> Guess I was not the only one confused about that.
11:35:24  <Terkhen> how much RAM does it take on ubuntu 32bit?
11:35:43  <DayDreamer> about 20 - 30mb
11:36:25  <Terkhen> public game #192 takes about 24 mb for me under windows 7 64 bit
11:36:29  <AveiMil> and to revisit my idea of a "Maxium Recommended Cargo Weight:" tooltip I wanted for each train engine I think I got a decent way of putting in a reasonable number. Simply create a flat track and test and see how much cargo a train can pull before it drops down below 50% (can be another value) of the train engines stated speed rating. Voila and you have good way to gauge relative performance of train engines.
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11:37:25  <planetmaker> that game uses here 44MB, Terkhen
11:37:35  <planetmaker> on osx i386
11:37:59  <Terkhen> it can change a bit depending on the OS and the game, but 650mb is way too much
11:38:12  <planetmaker> 0640- openttd      12.9 00:20.48 3/1  1    139  563   29M+   91M    47M+   50M    1078M  20619 20619 running
11:38:14  <planetmaker> 2
11:38:19  <planetmaker> yes, I agree
11:38:30  <planetmaker> it seems that my memory usage is increasing, though
11:38:48  <Terkhen> if you can send me the savegame we can check if it is OS related or not
11:38:51  <planetmaker> DayDreamer: same thing when you reconnect?
11:38:59  <planetmaker> Terkhen: current public server
11:39:06  <DayDreamer> it doesnt matter which game is running main screen is same problem
11:39:12  <planetmaker>
11:39:37  <Terkhen> hmm... I have never connected to it
11:39:42  <planetmaker> DayDreamer: I mean. Just quit and restart
11:39:47  <planetmaker> Then the same memory usage?
11:40:00  <Rubidium> DayDreamer: are AIs running?
11:40:09  <DayDreamer> yes .. i try to restart comp, but still same
11:40:20  <planetmaker> DayDreamer: no need to recompile. Just restart
11:40:41  <planetmaker> uhm... ok. comp = computer and not compiler, I guess
11:41:02  <DayDreamer> u guess right
11:41:25  <Rubidium> did you compile the binary yourself?
11:41:52  <planetmaker> urx... can you do me a favour and NOT abbreviate everything to mis-understandably short letters and acronyms?
11:42:14  <DayDreamer> at ubuntu .. in windows i downloaded zip file
11:42:31  <planetmaker> [12:40]	<Terkhen>	hmm... I have never connected to it <-- about time then ;-)
11:43:24  <Terkhen> I can't build any network more complicated than point to point lines :P
11:44:06  <planetmaker> we also take on newcomers. And you exercise more understatement than many Britons usually muster
11:48:19  *** StraFFeR [] has joined #openttd
11:48:31  * StraFFeR says hello to everyone
11:48:52  <Terkhen> okay, maybe I'll try one of these days :)
11:48:55  <Terkhen> hello StraFFeR
11:49:22  <StraFFeR> guys i have problem: everytime i start my dedicated server generation_seed doesnt change ....
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11:50:04  <planetmaker> StraFFeR: it's saved in the openttd.cfg
11:50:26  <StraFFeR> yes and it doesnt change ... it used to change everytime i ran server
11:50:40  <planetmaker> is the cfg writable?
11:51:12  <StraFFeR> well i deleted generation seed once and when i checked it after i ran server it was copleted with 0
11:51:20  <StraFFeR> so yes... its writeable probably
11:53:34  <StraFFeR> -rw-r--r--  1 wow    wow       8606 11-11 21:31 straff.cfg
11:54:10  <StraFFeR> so anyone can give me another reason why my server runs always the same map?
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11:54:22  <Rubidium> what version of OpenTTD are we talking about?
11:54:27  <StraFFeR> 1.0.4
11:55:08  <StraFFeR> im hosting 2 servers on that machine and they have the same problem
11:56:56  <StraFFeR>
11:57:20  <Rubidium> how do you start OpenTTD? i.e. what parameters do you use for starting
11:58:12  <StraFFeR> ./openttd -D -o straff.cfg
11:58:18  <StraFFeR> something like that... as i remember
12:00:09  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21150 /trunk/src/os/macosx/splash.cpp: -Fix: [OSX] Deprecation warning with libpng 1.4
12:01:56  <Terkhen> DayDreamer: the current public server game takes only about 13 MB of ram for me... I don't know what can be the reason for such a huge memory waste
12:02:00  <Rubidium> the -o is definitely wrong, a given me a "guessed" set of parameters only makes things harder as I have to guess now as well what it *might* have been
12:02:32  *** Fuco [] has joined #openttd
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12:04:11  <norbert79> DayDreamer: Are you sure you are using the right binary for your Windows 7, and not having compatibility mode turned on?
12:04:17  <norbert79> It's just an idea...
12:04:41  <norbert79> Because as I know when having XP mode set to on, it just starts a virtual XP 'image'
12:06:05  <StraFFeR> Rubidium: sorry ... parameters are exact -D -c straff.cfg
12:08:02  <Rubidium> each "newgame" (when the server is started) causes the same game to be started over and over again? Or does it start a different one?
12:08:13  <norbert79> DayDreamer: Btw SysInternals Process Explorer could be also a bit of help, it offers more information about processes
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12:09:32  <StraFFeR> the same map
12:09:55  <StraFFeR> its starts as new but with the same map
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12:10:10  <DayDreamer> norbert79: im sure, that i have everything in my computer right .. i try the explorer
12:10:11  <StraFFeR> time is restarted
12:12:55  <Rubidium> what operating system and kind of CPU are you using?
12:13:59  <Terkhen> DayDreamer: did it happen just after joining or were you already playing for a while?
12:14:04  <StraFFeR> intel xeon debian squeeze
12:14:26  <planetmaker> 32 or 64bit?
12:14:30  <StraFFeR> 64
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12:15:03  <DayDreamer> Terkhen: just start ottd .. in main screen
12:15:23  <Terkhen> strange
12:15:43  * Rubidium is officially out of ideas what might cause StraFFeR's issue :(
12:15:57  * StraFFeR is beeing very sad
12:16:15  <planetmaker> as which user do you start openttd?
12:16:25  <StraFFeR> normal one
12:16:29  <StraFFeR> not superuser
12:16:36  <planetmaker> yes. and its name is?
12:16:46  <StraFFeR> wow?
12:16:55  <planetmaker> that's what I'm asking you ;-)
12:16:57  <StraFFeR> cfg belongs to him
12:17:01  <planetmaker> ok :-)
12:17:03  <StraFFeR> im not that dumb
12:17:08  <StraFFeR> : )
12:17:11  <planetmaker> oh, things happen :-)
12:17:15  <StraFFeR> yeah
12:17:35  <Alberth> is the seed still 0?  perhaps try another value?
12:17:46  <StraFFeR> when i manually change value map changes
12:17:59  <StraFFeR> but i want to randomize automaticcaly
12:17:59  <planetmaker> how do you terminate openttd?
12:18:05  <StraFFeR> well...
12:18:15  <Alberth> I meant, in the openttd.cfg file, when the program is not running
12:18:46  <StraFFeR> Alberth: its still 0 i can only change it manually
12:18:54  <StraFFeR> than it stays
12:19:16  <Alberth> perhaps 0 is a special value for the generator
12:19:30  <StraFFeR> planetmaker: normally i just ctrl+c openttd ... but even when game stops timecycle it doesnt randomize generation_seed
12:19:47  <planetmaker> try exit in the console
12:19:51  <planetmaker> does it work then?
12:20:07  <StraFFeR> Alberth: 0 is just expample i can write there anything like 12324  it still wont change
12:20:12  <StraFFeR> planetmaker: ill try that
12:20:14  <Alberth> planetmaker: the cfg file gets a different time stamp, so it should get written
12:20:31  <planetmaker> missed that... hm. still
12:20:58  <StraFFeR> planetmaker: when i left generation seed empty it completed with 0
12:21:33  <planetmaker> does the same thing occur, if you don't use a custom cfg file, but openttd.cfg?
12:21:58  <StraFFeR> planetmaker: i tried exit nothing changes ;;; YES
12:22:17  * planetmaker now is also out of ideas :-(
12:22:26  <Alberth> hmm, did you create a new cfg file after upgrading 1.0.4, or is it a previous cfg?
12:22:41  <StraFFeR> i got 2 servers 1 with default openttd.cfg wich is probably updated since like 0.7 and custom one newly generated 1.0.2
12:22:44  <planetmaker> Alberth: I rarely ever create a new cfg
12:22:56  <planetmaker> and use the same for all my versions
12:23:06  <StraFFeR> ya
12:23:23  <StraFFeR> ill try to leave it empty again
12:23:24  <Alberth> me too, but I never look at what map I get :)  neither do I run a server
12:24:12  <StraFFeR> maybe i got bad lang generator?
12:24:18  <StraFFeR> 1? thats proper?
12:24:23  <StraFFeR> land*
12:24:29  <planetmaker> well. I do get different maps when starting new games...
12:24:45  <StraFFeR> i dont : /
12:24:45  <planetmaker> StraFFeR: it shouldn't matter. Bot land gnerators use random numbers
12:24:52  <planetmaker> *Both
12:25:38  <StraFFeR> haha that means that random number generator broke in my machine : P
12:26:15  <StraFFeR> hell i dont know
12:26:32  <StraFFeR> im so desperate that ill ever restart the box
12:26:35  <StraFFeR> 13:41:47 up 125 days, 19:23,  5 users,  load average: 0.01, 0.02, 0.00
12:27:09  <StraFFeR> even*
12:28:17  <planetmaker> I just did the same thing here twice...: bin/openttd -D -c path/to/some.cfg two times. And it gave different ones...
12:28:33  <StraFFeR> i used the pre combiled package
12:28:42  <StraFFeR> maybe thats problem
12:28:42  <StraFFeR> ....
12:28:50  <StraFFeR> compiled*
12:28:59  <planetmaker> I *should* not
12:29:15  <planetmaker> On debian it's quite easy to self-compile your openttd, though
12:29:22  <StraFFeR> yea...
12:29:40  <StraFFeR> but you know ... im to lazy ... if i dont need to ... i just dont
12:29:59  <StraFFeR> anyway thats why debian is so great... packages...
12:33:36  <StraFFeR> arghg
12:33:37  <planetmaker> yeah, that works for stables.
12:33:39  <StraFFeR> WTF
12:33:43  <planetmaker> <-- we use that :-)
12:33:52  <planetmaker> updates to the latest nightly
12:34:08  <StraFFeR> i ran server on my user... and it randomizes maps
12:34:31  <planetmaker> hehe
12:34:36  <StraFFeR> the other thing is that i use newly generated cfg
12:34:53  <StraFFeR> il try to run server with my cfg
12:36:26  <planetmaker> !trains
12:36:36  <planetmaker> !rcon companies
12:36:44  <planetmaker> !companies
12:36:46  <planetmaker> !info
12:36:52  <planetmaker> ups...
12:37:36  <planetmaker> good that glx' script was not here ;-)
12:37:55  <Terkhen> :D
12:37:57  <Hirundo> !password
12:38:05  <planetmaker> :-)
12:38:32  <avdg> hmm, no action by Dorpsgek? boring :)
12:38:56  *** avdg was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [and.... action!]
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12:39:08  <avdg> :p
12:39:17  <StraFFeR> uhm
12:39:19  <StraFFeR> guys ...
12:39:34  <StraFFeR> i ran my cfg on my user... and... thats purely cfg problem ...
12:39:58  <DorpsGek> zzzzzzzzz
12:40:03  <StraFFeR> is there any swich in cfg wich forbids map randomization?
12:40:59  <planetmaker> @whoami
12:41:00  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: planetmaker
12:41:48  <planetmaker> [13:41]	<StraFFeR>	is there any swich in cfg wich forbids map randomization? <-- hm, not that I know...
12:42:33  <StraFFeR> theres just something fcked up in my cfg
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12:53:41  <StraFFeR> im so dumb
12:53:48  <StraFFeR> i found the problem ^^
12:54:31  <StraFFeR> planetmaker: you re interested in solution? : P
12:54:37  <planetmaker> sure :-)
12:54:45  <StraFFeR> reload_cfg true
12:54:53  <planetmaker> gives me one or two more questions to ask the next person...
12:55:01  <planetmaker> hm
12:55:10  <StraFFeR> if its true it doesnt randomize generation seed
12:55:22  <planetmaker> yes, that's its purpose...
12:55:26  <planetmaker> now that you mention it :-)
12:55:35  <planetmaker> so that you can re-play the same map
12:55:41  <planetmaker> and re-generate it
12:56:35  <planetmaker> maybe its name better should be keep_cfg
12:56:49  <StraFFeR> keepandreload_cfg
12:56:51  <StraFFeR> xd
12:57:19  <StraFFeR> as i understand if cfg changes in meantime it loads changes right?
12:57:40  <StraFFeR> i mean with every newgame
12:57:40  <StraFFeR> ?
12:57:46  <StraFFeR> or timerestart ?
13:01:29  <Eddi|zuHause> implement handling SIGHUP ;)
13:03:49  <planetmaker> [13:57]	<StraFFeR>	as i understand if cfg changes in meantime it loads changes right? <-- possibly
13:03:59  <StraFFeR> planetmaker: haha
13:04:14  <planetmaker> usually the cfg is written when terminating openttd. All changes to the cfg done meanwhile are then overwritten
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13:08:53  <AveiMil> can someone test and see if they see my dedicated server in the advertised list please?
13:09:06  <AveiMil> AveiMil's Possibly Improved Game Play Mod (PIGM) 0.1 is the name
13:10:01  <AveiMil> the console is bitching about not reciving achknowledgement from the master server and to allow upd/tcp packets to port 3980, but I already forwarded 3980
13:10:19  <AveiMil> and previously when I played with a freind online I enver had to forward any ports when I created a server
13:10:25  <AveiMil> (with my client)
13:10:39  <Terkhen> AveiMil:
13:11:20  <AveiMil> cool
13:11:34  <AveiMil> is there anything else that needs to be done other than forward the configured port?
13:12:53  <AveiMil> weird, just works now all of a sudden
13:14:50  <Ammler> it needs a bit of patience
13:15:15  <Ammler> the server list doesn't update in real time, afaik
13:16:04  <Ammler> oh and hello people :-)
13:16:10  <AveiMil> hi
13:16:13  <planetmaker> hello Ammler :-)
13:16:23  <AveiMil> it just fails to communicate with the master server frmo time to time
13:16:30  <AveiMil> noticed it again now after reboot
13:16:44  <planetmaker> unstable connection, eh? ;-)
13:16:44  <AveiMil> but it retries and eventually advertisement is successfull
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13:17:00  <AveiMil> my connection is definetly not unstable
13:17:11  <Ammler> the refresh is every 5 mins? not sure though
13:17:20  <AveiMil> no worries, it works fine
13:23:20  <planetmaker> hm, callback 0x19 != property 0x19 ;-)
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13:27:08  <Ammler> AveiMil: also if you setup a server with newgrf, you should upload the newgrf to bananas
13:27:24  <planetmaker> :-)
13:27:29  <Ammler> if it is in testing stage, you can "hide" it from public
13:28:43  <planetmaker> NewGRF-ing 101 by Ammler: Hide your test grfs and make them available at the same time. Now on #openttd
13:28:56  <Ammler> :-D
13:29:16  <Ammler> grfs which you use on a server
13:29:25  <planetmaker> :-) I know. And I fully agree
13:29:59  <Ammler> hiding like setup version to nightly
13:30:09  <planetmaker> ^
13:30:25  <planetmaker> my cargo subtype display doesn't work :-(
13:32:31  <planetmaker> anyone an idea?
13:32:45  <AveiMil> wait wah?
13:33:09  <AveiMil> yeah, I'll do this banana thing in a bit, real work gets in the way
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13:35:53  <planetmaker> hm... nvm. Callbacks need to be enabled correctly
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14:17:00  <Belugas> hello
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14:17:47  <AveiMil> hi Belugas
14:17:51  <norbert79> Hello Belugas
14:18:16  <planetmaker> moin Belugas
14:18:20  <Belugas> hi guys :)
14:20:55  <norbert79> would ben funnier, if all the other 115 online individuals have said 'hello' :)
14:21:21  <fjb> Moin Belugas
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14:22:16  <Alberth> hello
14:22:22  <avdg> hello
14:22:55  <norbert79> 112 more missing ;-)
14:23:17  <Eddi|zuHause> silly people...
14:23:30  <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: Yeeah, life would be dull otherwise :)
14:25:07  <Belugas> hehe
14:25:14  <Belugas> a wave of hello's!
14:26:03  <fjb> Moin Alberth
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14:30:21  <norbert79> Moin fjb, Alberth :)
14:30:31  *** Dreamxtreme2 [~Dre@] has joined #openttd
14:30:46  <fjb> Moin norbert79
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14:34:59  <Belugas> funny idea...  whomever have not waved hello or moin or salut or hi today will be kicked out
14:35:01  <Belugas> a joke...
14:35:12  <Belugas> too much of a job anyway
14:35:47  <avdg> unless you have a bot :p
14:36:22  <avdg> but then would the channel be boring
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14:37:57  <Belugas> it would?
14:38:56  <avdg> who likes to be massmurdered?
14:41:49  <fjb> Bjarni would have done it.
14:42:02  <fjb> The kicking.
14:43:39  <__ln__> or the One we don't speak of.
14:44:02  <Alberth> Belugas: and anybody who auto-connects again, gets banned :p
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15:11:02  <AveiMil> Looking for a new and fresh OpenTTD challenge? BAM! Try out the PIGM NewGRF:
15:12:31  <planetmaker> it would be very nice, if you added the images to the forums and not a random 3rd-party page :-)
15:12:45  <AveiMil> 3rd party page?
15:13:06  <AveiMil> ah, well that's not really a random-3rd party page, that's my domain
15:13:29  <planetmaker> same thing ;-)
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15:13:58  <planetmaker> it breaks potentially layout and is less long-term stable than the forums
15:16:48  <AveiMil>
15:16:53  <AveiMil> that dosen't look good though
15:17:54  <AveiMil> much easier for me to control/update with my own url
15:18:09  <AveiMil> and domain won't be going away for several years at least, so no worries
15:18:34  <Rubidium> it's not the domain I'm worried about :)
15:18:51  <AveiMil> well I don't delete it either :)
15:18:57  <avdg> traffic
15:19:43  <AveiMil> 125 views in 16 hours~, I wouldn't worry too much ;)
15:20:21  <Rubidium> but then, I'm not that worried about "off-site" images on tt-forums as they don't show for me anyways :)
15:20:39  <AveiMil> they don't show?
15:21:44  <Rubidium> yeah, I block all those images because they usually load very slowly
15:21:55  <Rubidium> annoying image share sites and such
15:22:09  <Rubidium> so if it ain't coming from the same domain it isn't shown
15:22:17  <AveiMil> o.O
15:22:49  <avdg> I've done such things on my previous laptop too :o
15:23:11  <avdg> but I'm now too lazy and see no effort in doing it again
15:23:13  <AveiMil> never experienced such problems
15:23:29  <AveiMil> nor do I see it as a problem if some images would load slowly
15:23:44  <AveiMil> not being able to see what something was would just drive me crazy with curiosity
15:23:46  <Rubidium> it messes up "scroll to last post" links
15:24:05  <Rubidium> AveiMil: then you haven't seen my IRC ignore list yet :)
15:24:37  <AveiMil> hehe, long?
15:25:04  <Rubidium> want to be entry #75?
15:25:44  <AveiMil> hmmm, what advantages can you offer me by being on the list?
15:26:22  <Rubidium> not having to explain you're joking every X minutes?
15:26:31  <AveiMil> sign me right up!
15:26:35  <norbert79> lol
15:26:59  <AveiMil> are you easily annoyed Rubidimdimdum?
15:27:35  <SmatZ> banlist here is quite long, too, AveiMil
15:28:05  <AveiMil> are you suggesting I am under threat?
15:32:15  <Alberth> possibly that question is already too late
15:34:33  <AveiMil> hmm, so serious :( norbert79 has the right idea, laugh more, less seriousness.
15:34:54  <norbert79> AveiMil: Well, being sad does not change anything :)
15:35:55  <norbert79> Yet I won't laugh on a funeral, that won't bring the dead alive... :)
15:36:04  <AveiMil> hehe :)
15:36:19  <norbert79> Oh, I wish it would work that way :)
15:36:23  <AveiMil> Crying and being sad on a funeral is really selfish.
15:36:29  <AveiMil> But that's what funerals are about, seflishness.
15:36:54  <norbert79> nah, mourning is a good thing, because that way you self feel, that you want to remember the person, who has been lost
15:37:01  <AveiMil> Really you should be celebrating his/hers life instead!
15:37:06  <AveiMil> yeah, mourning is good
15:37:10  <AveiMil> but it's selfish
15:37:17  <AveiMil> that's what mourning is about :)
15:37:24  <norbert79> I disagree, but that depends on the point of view :)
15:37:34  <AveiMil> notice I don't use the word selfish in a negative connotation
15:38:11  <AveiMil> per definiton you cannot not be selfish
15:38:22  <norbert79> Besides, this reminds me on a joke "I applied for a reincarnation school, it wasn't cheap, but hey, we live for once!"
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15:38:31  <AveiMil> haha
15:40:05  <AveiMil> but really mourning is a prime example of being selfhish, you don't mourn over your dead friend for him, the bloke's freaking dead he dosen't and can't give a damn :)
15:40:42  <norbert79> hey, I will not mourn over my death, okay? I am not selfish! :D
15:40:54  <AveiMil> hehe
15:41:07  <AveiMil> at my funeral I want a stand-up comedian
15:42:07  <AveiMil> I want people coming out of the facility and going "that was an awsome funeral, lets do THAT again next year"
15:42:16  <norbert79> Oh no, I don't want blame my own death with some low-type nutty one :D I want to have money, so I can hire some professional :) You know what 'rocked'? The funeral of Graham Chapman (Monty Python)
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15:42:50  <AveiMil> hmm, don't remember that one, youtube here I come
15:43:00  <Noldo> yeah, just watched the somewhat new documentary that had clips of it
15:43:44  <norbert79> "He was the first person who said shit in live television"...If I can recall well :)
15:44:02  <AveiMil> that sounds like a man I would like
15:44:07  <norbert79> no, wait
15:44:17  <Noldo>
15:44:26  <norbert79> never mind, there you go with the link :)
15:45:18  <AveiMil> lolol
15:47:15  <AveiMil> brilliant
15:49:20  <norbert79> Well, have to go for today, I see you then later on! Pleasent afternoon!
15:49:22  <norbert79> Bye
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15:49:53  <AveiMil> see ya!
15:57:13  <Belugas> hooo..
15:57:17  <Belugas> hem... sorry
15:57:20  <Belugas> wrong channel
15:59:06  <xiong> (FS#4154 - Transfer and Take Cargo fix)++
16:00:56  <xiong> The workaround I'm fooling with is just to have the vehicle stop twice at the same station -- once to unload-transfer, once to load and go. The short time interval increases the chance that *some* other vehicle waiting at the transfer point will get the cargo first.
16:01:51  <xiong> I feel that this issue is only truly critical for pax and mail. Other cargoes, you don't usually want to both load and unload at the same point.
16:02:35  <xiong> That is, for pax and mail, bidirectional flow taken for granted; other cargoes, not. I would like to see this fix fixed.
16:03:30  <avdg> except if you are doing a 2way service, which isn't that unusual then you think
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16:31:06  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21151 /trunk/src/ (build_vehicle_gui.cpp fios_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#4221]: Sort arrow wasn't accounted for in two windows causing it to be overwritten by the "sort by" string
16:36:18  <AveiMil> Looking for a new and fresh OpenTTD challenge? BAM! Try out the PIGM NewGRF:
16:37:05  <planetmaker> AveiMil: posting that same message here every hour is not really helpful...
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16:39:56  <glx> and it's dangerous :)
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16:44:20  <planetmaker> I have to try...
16:44:22  <planetmaker> !trains
16:44:25  <planetmaker> :-D
16:45:43  <planetmaker> do you have !rcon in your list of banned commands?
16:46:15  <AveiMil> me?
16:46:19  <planetmaker> no
16:46:30  <glx> try :)
16:46:30  <avdg> ohno :)
16:46:44  <planetmaker> !rcon insanely try
16:46:44  *** planetmaker was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
16:46:52  <AveiMil> lol
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16:46:58  <planetmaker> :-D
16:47:05  <AveiMil> n1
16:47:18  <planetmaker> then I was lucky this afternoon :-)
16:47:20  <avdg> your rank wasn't helpfull pm :(
16:47:37  <planetmaker> avdg: op doesn't help when being kicked at all ;-)
16:50:05  * avdg is wondering if he could kick himself
16:50:28  <planetmaker> so... what should I do, I have 4 different coal wagons: two types early, two types later. And then pick a random one? The same for a whole train? Or randomly by the wagon?
16:58:17  <Yexo> 2 early and 2 later only makes sense if some of them are clearly "old" models and some of them are more modern
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16:59:14  <Yexo> if they mix well I'd prefer random per wagon, so you get varied trains
16:59:29  <planetmaker> they unfortunately are not clearly old or modern
17:00:08  <planetmaker>
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17:02:26  <planetmaker> basically the difference is as between ore and coal wagon
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17:03:26  <planetmaker> and for each I have two variations
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17:13:47  <xiong> avdg, Been doing a lot of thinking about that. Been thinking about that since before OTTD, actually. RRT2 also was willing to pay for the same cargo moved from one side of the map to the other and back again.
17:14:52  * avdg is confused
17:15:20  <xiong> Say you have, oh, two forges and two coal mines. Way over E, there's one forge, one mine; way out W, the others. You can run coal back and forth endlessly for big bucks, so long as the E side mine supplies the W side forge, etc.
17:15:47  <xiong> I say that's silly.
17:16:39  <xiong> Pax and mail is a special case. But coal is coal. Why would a mine pay to have its stuff shipped across the continent when it can truck it to a nearby buyer?
17:16:40  <AveiMil> any way to turn off the subsidies ads?
17:16:48  <planetmaker> don't do it. But don't forbid people doing that, who like it
17:16:59  <planetmaker> AveiMil: no
17:17:07  <planetmaker> except in the news options
17:17:15  <avdg> oh, I think I get it now :)
17:17:48  <xiong> "Forbid"? Who said anything about "forbid"?
17:17:57  <planetmaker> [18:17]	<xiong>	Pax and mail is a special case. But coal is coal. Why would a mine pay to have its stuff shipped across the continent when it can truck it to a nearby buyer? <-- coal is shipped half around the globe. So why not?
17:18:19  <xiong> Where did I use the word "forbid"?
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17:18:50  <xiong> I strongly dislike having words put into my mouth. I am not a straw man to be knocked over for your personal amusement, Sir.
17:18:56  <__ln__> between the quotes, twice.
17:18:58  <AveiMil> ty
17:19:33  <planetmaker> xiong: the next thing after 'this is silly' always is 'that has to be changed'
17:19:35  <xiong> I simply consider it silly to exchange a commodity -- not a cargo in general, but a commodity -- bidirectionally. You're free to do so.
17:19:53  <xiong> I don't think anything "has to be changed".
17:20:20  <xiong> Shall I go on record with that? Post to forum?
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17:20:49  <xiong> I don't think OTTD devs "should" or "must" anything. This is a game, a free-time activity. Period.
17:21:28  <xiong> Once more, *my* point is steamrollered over. Do you mind?
17:21:53  <xiong> My point is that pax and mail are an exception to this... silly opinion of mine. They are not fungible.
17:22:14  <planetmaker> I mind you starting to whine yet again over nothing
17:22:34  <xiong> A person is quite willing to pay well for transportation to the other side of the state, nation, or world; even though there is a cottage just down the road willing to welcome... someone.
17:23:32  <xiong> Will you stop? /ignore me if you like. If you define all I say as whining then there is little point in listening to me, is there?
17:23:48  <xiong> Do you come here to fight? I mean, what's the point?
17:24:34  <xiong> My comment was a polite and enthusiastic backing of someone else's thing: (FS#4154 - Transfer and Take Cargo fix)
17:24:56  <xiong> I'd like to see that done.
17:26:17  <xiong> avdg pointed out that some people will run the same cargo in both directions. I think that's silly and I don't much care one way or the other. But I do say that the lack of that fix prevents realistic pax and mail service over long distances.
17:26:49  <avdg> thats an opinion, not a good reason imo
17:27:35  <xiong> By definition, I'm not the only person who feels this way. Why don't you go hammer on Fragster, the fellow who wrote that?
17:27:47  <avdg> I prefer 1way, but I can understand why to use trains 2way
17:28:06  <avdg> you have then profit at both ways
17:28:10  <avdg> *directions
17:28:21  <xiong> avdg, Don't you see that my viewpoint doesn't conflict with yours, even though they differ?
17:28:35  <xiong> I don't want to see anything break your fun.
17:29:03  <Belugas> xiong: "But I do say that the lack of that fix prevents realistic pax and mail service over long distances."  Yup, the cat has been taken out of the bag :)  Indeed, it's the lack of realism of that "feature" that bothers.
17:29:11  <xiong> I'd like to be *able* to run a bus into a train station and leave with different people than I brought.
17:29:30  <avdg> srr, I don't want to go into a discussion, my parents are in deep conversation already with neightbourproblems
17:30:30  <xiong> Belugas, Sorry; I can't tell what point you're making. Are you agreeing with Fragster, myself, and others who seek such an ability?
17:32:31  * planetmaker feeds some nice saussages to Belugas' realism-cat
17:33:51  <xiong> FWIW, I don't consider it a high priority. As I say, I've dummied out a workaround: Order the vehicle to stop twice at the same station, once to unload, once to load. Given that there *are* other vehicles waiting to take pax onto the next leg, there's a good chance the departing vehicle will not take only the ones it just arrived with.
17:34:20  <xiong> One could easily justify angry pax leaving the airport on the same bus they came on, if no plane was there to take them away.
17:34:41  <planetmaker> it might also be realistic to consider different types of coal with different sulphur content and so on. And for one application coal A is MUCH more suitable than coal B which is found next door. Hm... too realistic? Oh damn...
17:35:00  <planetmaker> nice cat. Yes, that was tasty, right?
17:35:04  * planetmaker pets the cat a bit more
17:35:25  <xiong> ... and, if I understand it correctly, "improved loading algorithm" means that the already-waiting vehicle really will try to load first, before the turning-around vehicle.
17:36:00  <xiong> No, Coal is coal. If there were two types of coal, then there would be two types of coal.
17:36:36  <xiong> If there were different kinds of farm implements, then there would be different kinds of farm implements.
17:37:07  <xiong> I don't object to simplification. I do object to imaginary elaboration.
17:38:02  <xiong> One terrible limitation of RRT2 -- among so many others -- was the inability to do much in the way of cargo transfer. OTTD is a vast improvement.
17:38:26  <xiong> I should have preferred to see yards, though, rather than loading/unloading.
17:38:38  <xiong> Or, perhaps, in addition to.
17:39:14  <xiong> At least in modern times, loading/unloading is avoided whenever possible: hence the intermodal container.
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17:41:40  <AveiMil> cool, I'm proxying oil via oil tanker vehicles from two oil wells to a central dock and then shipping that off to a nearby refinery with my 420,000 litre oil tanker
17:42:06  <AveiMil> and then two 420,000 crates of goods cargo ships deliver the goods produced 6 months away for a juicy pay day
17:43:46  <xiong> AveiMil, I think you have the makings of a great seaman.
17:44:52  <AveiMil> well, this is something made possible with my NewGRF, now ships are viable tools
17:45:02  <AveiMil> (
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17:55:52  <AveiMil> What are the chances, a UFO collided with my oil tanker truck
17:56:06  <Xaroth> 50%
17:56:15  <Xaroth> it either does, or does not.
17:56:39  <AveiMil> heh heh
17:59:23  <Eddi|zuHause> depends on how many of your trucks are carrying oil
18:01:19  <xiong> Ow.
18:03:30  <xiong> Yes, the double-stop workaround is... workable. Doing this turned a terrible, atrociously designed layout that was gushing cash in utterly pointless revenueless service into an atrociously designed layout slowly losing money, with about 50% of cargo arriving at its origin.
18:04:08  <xiong> Gushing out...
18:06:58  *** norbert79 [] has joined #openttd
18:09:42  <xiong> There is no such thing as saturation in acceptance here, is there? If a town accepts a single pax, it will accept a million?
18:10:38  <xiong> Industries may experience a temporary backlog of input cargoes but there's no practical way to jam in so much that the industry never catches up?
18:11:33  * norbert79 sees, that it was a bad time to rejoin the channel :)
18:12:12  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it's always a bad time to be in the same channel with xiong.
18:12:23  * planetmaker hugs norbert79
18:12:31  <norbert79> evening guys :)
18:13:00  <norbert79> xiong: Just one very simple question, just this one time: Did you ever, and I repeat, ever tried just to ENJOY the game?
18:13:39  <Eddi|zuHause> ARGHH!!!
18:13:45  <Eddi|zuHause> DON'T FEED THE TROLL!!!
18:13:50  <Eddi|zuHause> NOT EVEN ON FRIDAYS!
18:14:02  *** theholyduck [~holyduck@] has joined #openttd
18:14:04  <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: Sorry, I was just curious, since I am planning on joining a game online :)
18:14:09  <norbert79> right now
18:14:28  <norbert79> lets see...
18:15:42  <Belugas> xiong, no, i do not agree with you on it.  I only say that the request for that type of feature comes from a need of more realism.  The whole point, though, is that game wise, a cargo is a cargo, been human or paper or else.  And that's all that matters.  Some may wish more.  Good for them.
18:16:03  <xiong> norbert79, I'm having fun.
18:16:30  <xiong> Belugas, Well, I agree with you on that.
18:16:31  <Eddi|zuHause> xiong just has neither tried ECS nor CargoDist.
18:16:48  <xiong> I'm not sure where you come down on the transfer point issue.
18:17:21  <Belugas> making network easier to manage
18:17:57  <Belugas> i lke to use transfers from <somewhere> to <main station> with say trucks
18:18:05  <Belugas> than train picks up the built up of cargos
18:18:19  <xiong> Er, I mean, do you think the feature good or bad? Not to say it's a binary choice; rather a spectrum ranging from "essential" through "indifferent" to "avoid at all costs".
18:18:33  <Belugas> otherwise, i'd have to lay a track to somewhere and that would prove inneficient
18:18:53  <Belugas> which feature?
18:19:06  <xiong> I'm talking specifically about an order that would forbid a vehicle picking up the exact same cargo that it *just* dropped.
18:19:07  <peter1138> we have to lay a track
18:19:08  <peter1138> in ARDOUR
18:19:45  <Belugas> hehehe
18:20:08  <Belugas> xiong, i'm totally indifferent
18:20:14  <xiong> ?
18:20:23  <Eddi|zuHause> can anyone tell xiong that we talked about that exact same thing for YEARS.
18:20:33  <xiong> Okay, well then: How do you transfer pax?
18:20:35  <Eddi|zuHause> and it was always rejected for the same reasons.
18:20:56  <Belugas> as i would for coal
18:21:06  <Belugas> pick and dump
18:21:13  <xiong> The only totally clean way I can see to do it, is to have two completely distinct sets of vehicles, with all of them empty half the time.
18:21:22  <Belugas> yep
18:21:30  <xiong> Two sets of stations -- Wbound and Ebound.
18:21:35  <Belugas> yup
18:21:49  <xiong> So, that's what you do?
18:22:13  <Belugas> or better: pick at A, dump at B, pick at C, dump at D and go to A
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18:22:56  <xiong> Okay, but that doesn't make much sense in a feeder route. There, it's pick B, dump A, pick C, dump A, pick D, dump A.
18:22:56  *** CIA-10 [~CIA@] has quit []
18:23:17  <Belugas> given that b and c are close and a and d are close
18:23:21  <xiong> ... and that's fine, right there, for coal, and I'm happy with that.
18:23:42  <xiong> My point is with pax.
18:24:16  <xiong> I don't want to build two airports, one for arrivals, one for departures; each with its own fleet of trains taking off for the city.
18:24:59  <avdg> its not about getting things right, its about getting things that fit in the game
18:25:00  <xiong> The same bus that drops pax at the airport should take away pax -- but not the *same* pax, for they don't want to go back home and will not pay for the disservice.
18:25:22  <xiong> avdg, You ever spend much time modeling?
18:25:23  <AveiMil> lol wtf? they aren't real people
18:25:44  <xiong> Doesn't matter. In pure game terms, they won't pay game money.
18:25:45  <__ln__> AveiMil: of course they are, don't talk like that about human beings
18:26:00  <AveiMil> I'm sorry :'(
18:26:04  <avdg> xiong: start a local blog/wiki and write your notes there
18:26:12  <xiong> Why?
18:26:16  <Belugas> xiong, your view is tainted with desire of realism
18:26:25  <avdg> you are spamming the chat
18:26:32  <xiong> Belugas, You ever do much modeling?
18:26:41  <Belugas> i do lots of lego
18:26:50  <xiong> avdg, Dunno. I thought I was having a convo with Belugas.
18:27:16  <xiong> "spam" is pretty much Sales, Promotion, Advertising, Marketing. I have nothing to sell.
18:27:22  <Terkhen> :D
18:27:22  <Belugas> if you talk in this channel, you have a conversation with.. a lot of users :D
18:27:38  <xiong> Oh, I agree with that, Belugas.
18:27:58  <Belugas> spam can also mean floading with stuff undesired ;)
18:28:06  <xiong> I'd still like to know how you conceive a profitable long-distance passenger route, with transfers along the way. How do you do it?
18:28:15  <Belugas> so.... CashZ window to fix... byebye
18:29:36  <xiong> Hm. Well, I desire to talk trains.
18:30:24  <AveiMil> I don't quite understand the problem, can you break it down for me in a simple sentence or two?
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18:45:47  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r21152 /trunk/src/lang/ (catalan.txt polish.txt):
18:45:47  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:47  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 1 changes by arnau
18:45:47  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: polish - 2 changes by silver_777
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18:54:29  <AveiMil> A cargo ship should be able to carry both livestock and grain in one go.
18:54:33  <AveiMil> Is that moddable in NewGR?
18:54:35  <AveiMil> F
18:55:34  <Terkhen> no, ships can only carry a single type of cargo at once
18:55:58  <AveiMil> :(
18:56:59  <Belugas> only planes can carry 2 carogs
18:57:01  <Belugas> cargos
18:57:15  <Belugas> the trick is that the second one is in fact in the shadow :)
18:57:32  <__ln__> which is not nice
18:57:49  <SpComb> depends if you're an asm programmer or not
18:59:35  <Terkhen> :D
19:00:41  *** Samu [] has joined #openttd
19:01:01  <Samu> hi
19:02:39  *** saronpasu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:02:45  <Terkhen> hello Samu
19:02:57  <Samu> i installed mirc
19:03:23  <Samu> there's a little problem
19:04:09  <Samu> this link that is on the forum doesn't work, even with mirc installed irc://
19:04:37  <Samu> using IE8
19:04:39  <Rubidium> sounds like mirc didn't register itself for the irc protocol
19:05:15  <avdg> samu: try irc://
19:05:23  <Samu> was it because I installed as portable?
19:07:02  <Samu> avdg, that didn't work either
19:07:23  <Samu> i will try to reinstall mirc
19:07:30  *** Samu [] has quit []
19:07:31  *** ecke [~ecke@] has quit [Quit: more listen, more understand, more know]
19:09:24  *** andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
19:10:32  <AveiMil> Wish you could clone veichles so they end up with shared orders.
19:10:43  <andythenorth> you can
19:10:56  <andythenorth> using the hugely obvious ctrl-click when cloning ;)
19:11:03  *** Samu [] has joined #openttd
19:11:09  <Samu> :)
19:11:12  <Samu> it works now
19:11:15  <avdg>
19:12:06  <Rubidium> andythenorth: yes, obviously everyone reads the readme before asking such questions here
19:12:33  <andythenorth> readme?
19:12:39  <andythenorth> what's that?
19:13:10  <AveiMil> no
19:13:14  <AveiMil> when you ctrl click clone
19:13:20  <AveiMil> the veichle gets all the orders
19:13:24  <AveiMil> but they ain't shared orders
19:13:56  <Rubidium> andythenorth: the thing you obviously haven't read yet...
19:14:17  <AveiMil> wait wtf, they are shared orders
19:14:33  <AveiMil> thought I tested that and discovered they werent' after ctrl click cloning
19:14:35  <AveiMil> ack
19:15:28  <andythenorth> it's ripe for improvement, but no-one knows how :P
19:16:11  <avdg> or someone is too scared too code ;-)
19:16:30  <andythenorth> code without any spec :O
19:16:48  <avdg> I have already an idea (for years actually)
19:17:15  <avdg> thats why partly I said no to cloned orders
19:17:31  <avdg> *banning shared orders I mean
19:18:37  <avdg> hmm, time to get the docs done I think :) (graps todolist)
19:19:08  <norbert79> Hmm, I feel rusted... But my company works :)
19:19:08  *** avdg [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:19:36  *** avdg [] has joined #openttd
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19:23:55  * Zuu is crazy - have to be at the railway local station around 6 o clock on sunday.
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19:24:45  <Zuu> Booked a train ticket via and had forgoten that I booked it from Kopenhagen H and not my city so I though 7:45 is doable, but now I realzie I have to get to copenhagen as well :-p
19:26:27  <SmatZ> :)
19:26:29  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you certainly are crazy.
19:27:55  <Zuu> The problem is that bahn e-tickets are not valid on local trains in Sweden, so you need to book from denmark and use a local PT-card to get to denmark.
19:28:52  <__ln__> so it would be easier if Skåne still was a part of denmark
19:29:01  <Zuu> Yes in this case ^^
19:29:02  <Markk> Scania o/
19:29:32  <AveiMil> asdf, what was I thinking. Yeah, when you use the clone tool on a truck that has Shared Orders
19:29:37  <Markk> Zuu: Whera are you goin'?
19:29:41  <AveiMil> your new truck will just hvae the orders, not shared orders
19:29:43  <AveiMil> :(
19:29:46  <Zuu> Or if DB would enter the swedish market now with the removal of the state monopoly in sweden.
19:29:54  <Zuu> Markk: Karlsruhe
19:30:30  <Markk> Ah
19:30:34  <Zuu> AveiMil: Hold control while cloning
19:30:36  <SmatZ> AveiMil: use the magic ctrl key
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19:31:30  <Markk> Zuu: Where in Scania do you live?
19:31:37  <Zuu> Lund
19:31:40  <Markk> ah
19:32:11  <Zuu> "The academic farmers village"
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19:32:29  <Wasila> Hey
19:32:55  <Samu> is there a way to lock someone to only 1 company?
19:33:08  <Wasila> I just had a quick question
19:33:13  *** xi23 [~xi23@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:33:18  <Zuu> Samu: Not by default
19:33:20  <Samu> this guy in this game is creating new companies to terraform for his main company :(
19:33:20  <Wasila> Is it feasible for me to personally edit a newGRF?
19:33:36  <SmatZ> Samu: unleash the mighty banhammer
19:33:56  <__ln__> Zuu: was the train any cheaper than flying?
19:34:19  <andythenorth> Wasila: depends on all kinds of things ;)
19:34:20  <Markk> Zuu: Haha
19:34:48  <Zuu> I didn't check the flight actually. But the train was not much more expansive than going to Stockholm.
19:34:56  <Wasila> Oh, andythenorth, I just want to change the capacity of this train
19:35:05  <Zuu> The company I work for have a policy against flying even if train is slower.
19:35:10  <andythenorth> Wasila: depends (1) which newgrf it is (2) do you have the tools (3) will you be able to figure it out :P
19:37:00  <Zuu> We even have goals on the transport mode shares within the company and I think there is also compensation for the CO2 that our trips generates.
19:37:36  <__ln__> try not to breathe much
19:38:03  <SmatZ> Zuu: sounds like you are working for the green party :)
19:38:07  <Zuu> But in this case, I don't know if I might use some Vattenfall coal power ^^
19:38:50  <Zuu> SmatZ: It's a traffic consultancy company.
19:38:56  <Wasila> OK
19:39:04  <Wasila> It's 1) Monolev Set 2) Dunno 3) I hope so ;)
19:39:20  <Wasila> Monolev or Japenese Maglev Set
19:40:11  <Wasila> I just want to make the maglev trains high capacity enough to be feasible, andythenorth
19:40:17  <andythenorth> this set?
19:40:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21153 /trunk/src/ (saveload/afterload.cpp tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp): -Change: unify the moment trains/road vehicles become (un)visible when entering/leaving a tunnel. As a side effect some tunnel related glitches are gone.
19:40:25  <__ln__> Zuu: if you were going to america, would you need to take the ferry?
19:41:06  <andythenorth> Wasila: you could ask Lawton to do it?
19:41:08  <Wasila> Yeah that'd do, although if another maglev set is easier that'd be alright too
19:41:18  <avdg> <- what about this list of features?
19:41:23  <Zuu> __ln__: hehe no, probably not.
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19:41:46  <Wasila> Is he still around? The thread is a little old
19:42:09  <AveiMil> Damn, I'm dumb. Thanks.
19:42:17  <AveiMil> There should be waypoints for road vehicles too :)
19:42:32  <SmatZ> AveiMil: you can use drive-throughs for that
19:42:37  <AveiMil> yeah I did
19:42:38  <SmatZ> with non-stop order
19:42:42  <Samu> hey, there is a translation error, can someone edit it?
19:42:44  <andythenorth> planetmaker: is monolev a coop hosted project?  I can't tell from
19:43:00  <AveiMil> non-stop? I just set them to no unload/load
19:43:13  <AveiMil> if I set non-stop and one in the middle they will still use it as a waypoint?
19:43:13  <SmatZ> then they will still stop there
19:43:28  <AveiMil> ccool
19:43:31  <SmatZ> it will work as a waypoint
19:43:42  <SmatZ> it's "Go via" order
19:44:18  <AveiMil> thanks
19:44:40  <Samu> How do I edit an error in the translation, or submit an error?
19:45:29  <SmatZ> Samu: become a translator :)
19:45:33  <SmatZ> or contact your translator
19:46:00  <Samu> Interface/Interaction/Left-click scrolling
19:46:06  <Samu> it translates to
19:46:44  <Samu> Deslocar com o botão esquerdo
19:46:55  <Samu> not Deslocar com o botão direito
19:47:24  <Alberth> there are very few people understanding what you say :)
19:47:27  <SmatZ> :)
19:47:31  <Samu> esquerdo = left
19:47:36  <Samu> direito = right
19:47:40  <Wasila> soo badd
19:47:44  <frosch123> what language is that? spanish? italian?
19:47:49  <Samu> portuguese
19:47:51  <SmatZ> portuguese
19:47:57  <Samu> not brazilian
19:48:13  <Wasila> So andythenorth, is it not worth my while doing it myself?
19:49:08  <andythenorth> Wasila: I'm not sure.  It looks like the fastest way would be to decode the grf, edit and reencode
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19:49:21  <andythenorth> that means you basically just need grfcodec, maybe nforenum
19:49:33  <andythenorth> I don't know the licensing or anything on that set
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19:51:11  <frosch123> Samu: there is no "o" between "com" and "botão" in current translation
19:51:30  <Wasila> I just found a tool on the forums called GRF reader, I'll check that out first
19:51:42  <Samu> ah, sorry
19:51:56  <frosch123> does that change something?
19:52:10  <Samu> deslocar com botão esquerdo or deslocar com o botão esquerdo is the same
19:52:39  <Samu> it says "deslocar com botão direito" right now, I'm reading it
19:52:51  <Samu> it should be "deslocar com botão esquerdo"
19:52:57  <frosch123> done, now wait for tomorrow nightly :)
19:53:16  <SmatZ> frosch123: you have global editor rights?
19:53:26  <frosch123> SmatZ: yeah, no idea why though :p
19:53:31  <andythenorth> Wasila: you need
19:53:32  <SmatZ> :)
19:53:53  <Zuu> Hmm, it would be nice if WT3 would show how the English string has changed or the old string so you can more quickly see how the meaning has changed.
19:54:09  <Samu> cool, ty
19:54:51  <Wasila> andythenorth: Where do I hit download?
19:55:00  *** fonsinchen [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:55:09  <andythenorth> Wasila:
19:55:23  <Wasila> ok, I'm on it
19:56:04  <andythenorth> Wasila: it should ship with a readme that explains basically how to use it
19:56:16  <andythenorth> you won't get very friendly code out of it unfortunately
19:56:22  <andythenorth> you might find it hard to edit :(
19:57:24  <Samu> the brazilian translation is correct, another way to say the same thing, lol
19:58:19  <Wasila> andythenorth: Do I use it in conjunction with MinGW?
19:58:28  <andythenorth> not sure
19:58:43  <andythenorth> anyone? ^
19:58:50  <andythenorth> (grfcodec)
19:59:39  <Zuu> not sure what you are talking about, but you don't need MinGW to run terminal programs in Windows.
20:00:05  <Zuu> grfcodec is as far as I know just a terminal program that you can run from cmd.exe.
20:00:15  <Samu> i found a bug (I think) with the music volume
20:00:27  <Samu> I can't lower it or raise it, it still plays
20:00:55  <Samu> doesn't go down or up
20:01:10  <Zuu> Only left and right? ^^
20:01:22  <Samu> ah yes
20:01:26  <Zuu> (sorry, I'm a bit tired and couldn't resist :-p )
20:01:33  <Samu> im on the musicbox thing
20:01:49  <Samu> changing the volume has no effect
20:02:11  <Zuu> (the slider goes left-right, not up-down :-D ... SORRY )
20:02:19  <Samu> yes
20:02:29  <Wasila> andythenorth: OK, I have 2 files
20:02:32  <Samu> sliding to Min or Max has no effect
20:02:33  <Wasila> .nfo and .pcx
20:02:42  <Samu> it works for sounds though
20:02:49  <andythenorth> Wasila: you need to edit the nfo
20:02:56  <andythenorth> welcome to madness :P
20:03:16  * Wasila cries
20:03:40  <Wasila> I have .dat files now
20:03:41  <Wasila> from the nforenum
20:03:47  <Wasila> in MinGW/home, but I don't know how to open them
20:03:54  <andythenorth> don't worry about those
20:03:55  <Zuu> Samu: On what platrofm are you?
20:03:59  <Zuu> Windows, Linux?
20:03:59  <andythenorth> paste the nfo to
20:04:17  <Samu> windows xp pro
20:04:19  <Samu> 32 bit
20:04:58  <Samu> using openttd 1.0.4
20:05:24  <Wasila>
20:05:30  <Wasila> Sorry, I have to go now. Will you be around in an hour?
20:05:36  <Wasila> bye
20:05:42  <andythenorth> probably
20:06:13  * andythenorth urgh
20:06:15  <andythenorth> nfo
20:06:18  <andythenorth> uncommented
20:06:46  <norbert79> Eh, lol.. asks for help, then flees :)
20:07:18  <andythenorth> urgh.  Turns out I can actually *read* uncommented nfo reasonably quickly :(
20:09:06  <Zuu> Samu: Unless it is in known-bugs.txt or on the bug tracker, I suggest posting it to
20:09:14  <Zuu> You could try with a different sound driver as well.
20:09:44  <Zuu> I kind of remember having read about this bug before.
20:09:45  <SmatZ> [21:01:48] <Samu> changing the volume has no effect <== it's a "known bug"
20:10:00  <SmatZ> or misfeature (missing feature ;)
20:10:36  <SmatZ> not sure if it's documented though
20:10:38  <Zuu> SmatZ: I can't find it in known-bugs.txt
20:10:55  <Samu> it's not on my known bug text file
20:11:01  <Zuu> This time I also checked with last stable known-bugs.txt (before I checked my last nightly)
20:11:28  <SmatZ> :)
20:14:08  <Samu> found another bug
20:14:26  <Samu> in the advanced settings, when changing the servicing from % to days
20:14:30  *** perk11 [~perk11@] has joined #openttd
20:14:37  <Samu> ship and planes are switched
20:14:38  *** KritiK [] has joined #openttd
20:14:52  <Samu> it's 100 days for planes, 360 for ships
20:17:38  <AveiMil> Question, I have a ship, told it to "fully load cargo" at a dock where livestock slowly ticks in. Does the late delivery penatly kick in from the moment the ship reaches 100% or from the moment the first livestock is loaded on board? (i.e. each livestock are prized seperately) ?
20:17:56  <AveiMil> (reaches 100% and starts to head for unloading dock)*
20:19:32  <andythenorth> ta da
20:19:36  <andythenorth> FIRS 0.5.3 :)
20:19:44  <andythenorth> with extra translation sauce
20:19:55  <Ammler> dear forum mods, please do not lock threads, just move those out of public, you have such category, don't you? I so much hate it to read something and then you can't answer.
20:21:18  <Ammler> orudge: maybe you can configure the forum, so mods can't close?
20:22:48  <Samu> wow, I can't really host a server, I'm the only one on it and it still sends packets to somewhere, masterserver?
20:23:37  <AveiMil> tries to advertise it with the master server if you make an internet server
20:24:09  <Samu> I currently have a higher upload ratio than download, just terminated server
20:24:41  *** APTX [] has joined #openttd
20:25:10  <Samu> mirc seems fine and not the problem
20:25:22  <Samu> it's teh game :(
20:25:23  *** APTX_ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:27:06  <Samu> 15.77MB uploaded
20:27:15  <Samu> 15.47MB downloaded
20:27:50  <Samu> the downloaded part includes mirc, 2 megas for it
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20:30:41  <peter1138> "megas"?
20:30:48  <Samu> MB
20:31:54  <SmatZ> mb?
20:32:09  <Samu> I don't know
20:32:12  <Samu> let me check
20:32:12  <Prof_Frink> megÊ
20:32:40  <Samu> windows says this
20:32:42  <Samu> 1,98 MB (2.078.272 bytes)
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20:48:52  <Samu> i added a new task
20:48:53  <Samu>
20:49:38  <Alberth> the latter part is a translation issue
20:50:09  <Alberth> portuguese translators handle that, not us
20:50:26  <Samu> :)
20:53:44  <Samu> what is the difference between OPF and NPF?
20:54:01  <Samu> or Original / OPF / NPF
20:54:27  <Samu> sometimes the settings say (not with OPF)
20:54:34  <Samu> but there is no OPF to select from
20:55:09  <Wasila> andythenorth, are you still there?
20:55:39  * avdg wonders howmany people can read
20:55:49  <Alberth> Samu: nice ones :)
20:56:01  <andythenorth> Wasila: hi
20:56:18  <Wasila> Hey :). So do you know which line refers to capacity of the train (there should be only one)?
20:56:57  <andythenorth> Wasila: what property number is speed here?
20:57:19  <Wasila> 09, according to that page
20:58:23  <andythenorth> Wasila: I think it's sprite 5 or sprite 6
20:58:36  <Samu> did I discover some typo?
20:59:10  <__ln__> i wish to register a complaint.  it's about this configure script i downloaded just a moment ago from this very boutique.
20:59:11  <andythenorth> Wasila: I can't be sure.  Looks like there are two action 0s applied to the same train
20:59:25  <andythenorth> hmm
20:59:34  <andythenorth> no one is a wagon
20:59:39  <andythenorth> I think it's sprite 5
21:00:06  <Wasila> Capacity is 400 passengers
21:00:08  <Wasila> If that helps
21:00:20  <andythenorth> oh you want to change capacity?
21:00:25  <Wasila> What did you think?
21:00:33  <andythenorth> speed of the loco for some reason :P
21:00:38  <Wasila> Oh noes xD
21:00:42  <andythenorth> so capacity is what property number?
21:00:55  <Wasila> 14
21:01:55  <andythenorth> what's the current capacity?
21:01:56  <andythenorth> 320?
21:02:02  <Wasila> 400
21:02:06  <andythenorth> hmm
21:02:19  <Wasila> Perhaps I could try a different maglev GRF, if it might be easier
21:02:56  <andythenorth> Wasila: how many wagons to get the 400 capacity?
21:03:01  <andythenorth> I need to know capacity per wagon...
21:03:15  <Wasila> Well, you can't buy wagons
21:03:17  <Wasila> It's a fixed length train
21:03:20  <andythenorth> yep
21:03:24  <Wasila> It looks like 8
21:03:24  <andythenorth> so how many wagons in it?
21:03:25  <Alberth> Samu: no, OPF probably got removed at some point in the past as choice for all except ships. Please ass a bug
21:03:34  <andythenorth> Wasila: including engines?
21:03:37  <Wasila> No
21:03:37  <Wasila> 10
21:03:38  <Alberth> *add
21:04:31  <Samu> ok
21:05:04  <SmatZ> Please ass a bug <== that sentence could be really confusing :)
21:05:26  <Alberth> avdg:
21:05:36  <Alberth> SmatZ: yeah, sorry about that
21:05:37  <Prof_Frink> Pleasing asses are a feature, not a bug.
21:05:40  <andythenorth> Wasila: all we have to do is find the correct 14 in sprite 6
21:05:43  <SmatZ> Alberth: no problem at all :)
21:06:19  <avdg> interesting :) I will take a look very quickly
21:06:24  <Wasila> andythenorth: There appear to be 2. Process of elimination?
21:06:30  <andythenorth> I think it's the second one
21:06:34  <andythenorth> 14 20
21:06:50  <andythenorth> change that to something like 14 32 and recompile ;)
21:06:55  <andythenorth> see what happens
21:07:08  <Wasila> Will I have to reload the game to see the changes?
21:07:15  <Wasila> Or reapply the grf?
21:07:32  <andythenorth> reapply the grf should work
21:07:45  <andythenorth> do you have newgrf developer tools enabled?
21:08:23  <Wasila> In-game?
21:08:31  <AveiMil> I need help to understand how the (transported x%) part of industries work. I think my ships are killing industries :(
21:08:38  <andythenorth> Wasila: yes, in game
21:08:43  <AveiMil> Does it count % transported THAT month only?
21:08:45  <Wasila> I don't think so
21:08:50  <andythenorth> nvm
21:09:09  <AveiMil> becasue I have a coal ship that keeps transporting 100% of what the coal mine has produced every 3 months or so and transported value is only 44%
21:09:44  <andythenorth> run a second ship
21:09:55  <andythenorth> so one is always loading
21:09:55  <Samu>
21:09:57  <Samu> done
21:10:08  <AveiMil> I can't, it's to expensive.
21:10:13  <Alberth> Samu: thanks
21:10:17  <AveiMil> so it counts transported % for THAT month?
21:10:33  <Wasila> andythenorth: I appear to have changed Max. Reliability, although I can't actually tell for certain
21:10:39  <andythenorth> :D
21:10:52  <Wasila> xD
21:11:20  <Wasila> I take it it's the other one?
21:11:25  <andythenorth> try it
21:13:47  <AveiMil> is there a way to tell if the economy has gone into recession with fluctuating economy on?
21:13:49  <Samu> is it possible to have openttd window always on top?
21:14:22  <AveiMil> cargo payment rates perhaps
21:14:50  <Wasila> andythenorth: I changed 03 to 09 and upon applying Failed: Unknown Action 0 Property
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21:15:57  <andythenorth> Wasila: I normally format nfo like this
21:15:57  <andythenorth>
21:16:02  <andythenorth> makes it easier to read :)
21:16:24  <andythenorth> makes property 14 more obvious
21:16:40  <andythenorth> unless I did it wrong :o
21:17:39  <Wasila> From that it appears that the 14 is actually part of 02
21:17:47  <andythenorth> yes
21:17:51  <andythenorth> you need the other 14
21:17:57  <Wasila> The max reliability one?
21:18:00  <andythenorth> hmm
21:18:10  <andythenorth> 14 20
21:18:19  <andythenorth> that changed max reliability?
21:18:27  <andythenorth> max reliability changes when you reload a newgrf
21:18:33  <andythenorth> could be the reason...
21:18:58  <Wasila> Mhmm, I thought the change wasn't consistent going back and forth
21:19:23  <andythenorth> I'm 99% certain that prop 14 is that byte
21:19:34  <andythenorth> and I'm 99% certain that's the chimera carriage
21:19:38  <Wasila> Lemme double check
21:20:01  <andythenorth> hey, this could have been us :D
21:20:12  <Samu> AIAI crash
21:20:22  <Samu> division by zero
21:20:36  <Samu> explosion caused by vehicle Road Vehicle 7
21:21:11  <avdg> hmm, could have many causes
21:22:03  <Samu> I loaded a TTD savegame
21:22:07  <Wasila> andythenorth: Strange, I must have overlooked it. There are now 2 Chimaeras, one with 400 capacity and one with 333
21:22:19  <Samu> the AI's loaded, this one crashed
21:22:21  <Wasila> The 333 is also roughly half the speed
21:22:25  <Wasila> Unless it was always like that
21:22:37  <andythenorth> Wasila: try starting a new game with just your modified grf ;)
21:23:03  <andythenorth> You can change the name in your grf mod if that helps - should be obvious how
21:24:55  <Wasila> Oh no, I think it worked
21:25:43  <AveiMil> Can someone explain to me why a oil well is constatly at 70% transported every month when I have oil trucks 100% of the time loading constantly everything that pops out?
21:25:57  <Wasila> although how exactly do I control it? What do the numbers mean?
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21:26:18  <frosch123> AveiMil: build a statue in the next town, and it will be at 80%
21:26:36  <frosch123> transport the oil with 500km/h maglev, and it will be at 100%
21:26:53  <andythenorth> Wasila: there are two bytes.  First is prop number (14).  Second is value, in hex
21:27:28  <andythenorth> can you count in hex? :P
21:27:28  <AveiMil> that's just weird
21:27:56  <Wasila> No, but Microsoft Calculator can ;)
21:28:10  <AveiMil> why does the speed of transport matter?
21:28:24  <Wasila> So 20 = 320?
21:28:30  <frosch123> the coolness of the trains matter or so
21:28:55  <AveiMil> which means road vehicles can never obtain 100% rating
21:29:09  <AveiMil> and why is it called "transported" if that's not what it means, gah
21:29:13  <andythenorth> Wasila: 20 = 32
21:29:24  <AveiMil> If I transport 100% in any given month, I expect that number to be 100%
21:29:28  <Wasila> And that's 10x in terms of capacity, andythenorth?
21:29:29  <andythenorth> I wonder if train capacity = prop 14 * 10?
21:29:37  <Wasila> That's what I mean
21:30:36  <andythenorth> what capacity do you want?
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21:31:00  <AveiMil> That's a horrible game mechanic.
21:31:14  <AveiMil> Ships ruin industries over time.
21:31:29  <Samu> it seems to work for ships
21:31:41  <AveiMil> ?
21:31:45  <andythenorth> AveiMil: alternative industry sets are available :D
21:31:50  <Samu> a full loading ship
21:31:55  <Samu> gets
21:31:57  <Samu> 67% rating?
21:31:58  <Samu> i think
21:32:11  <AveiMil> yeah, and why would you get 67% rating if you load 100%?
21:32:15  <AveiMil> you should get 100% rating
21:32:30  <AveiMil> otherwise the cahnce of production decrease per month will eventually mean the industry dies
21:32:49  <Samu> but when the ship is away, the rating decays slower
21:32:52  <Wasila> Yeah andythenorth, thanks. Now the trains are feasible. BTW, how hard would it be to increase the length of the train (add wagons)?
21:32:52  <AveiMil> andythenorth, is that related to industry sets? ain't it a game mechanic?
21:33:02  <andythenorth> Wasila: let me see...
21:33:10  <Wasila> Heh. Whole new can of worms
21:33:17  <AveiMil> yeah, so the month the ship loads the rating goes up to about 70%
21:33:27  <AveiMil> then the ship goes away for three months and by the time it's back the rating is 51%
21:33:41  <AveiMil> and during those 2-3 months there's a larger chance the industry production has decreased
21:33:43  <AveiMil> than increased
21:33:44  <andythenorth> Wasila: it will just be one byte to change somewhere
21:33:47  <AveiMil> thus over time it will surely die
21:34:03  <Wasila> andy, will it be 10 in hex or 8?
21:34:14  <Samu> does the rating influence the industry production change?
21:34:18  <Samu> station rating
21:34:21  <andythenorth> Wasila: for number of vehicles?
21:34:26  <Wasila> Wagons
21:34:34  <andythenorth> not sure...depends how it's doing the counting
21:34:38  <Wasila> D:
21:34:46  <andythenorth> it probably goes engine....wagons x 8, rear engine
21:35:01  <__ln__> who is in charge of the configure script?
21:35:49  <Wasila> andythenorth: no idea what it could be?
21:35:59  <Wasila> Will it be under that same section (sprite 6)?
21:36:03  <avdg> Alberth: sounds like limits in the current implementation, not that worst that I thought at, but still enough to do some extra research
21:36:07  <andythenorth> I'm looking for the action 2 that handles articulated vehicle cb
21:36:22  <AveiMil> the "transported" rating influence the industry production change
21:36:23  <andythenorth> Wasila: it starts at sprite 56
21:36:48  <andythenorth> then it chains to sprite 53
21:36:58  <AveiMil> in simple terms you must keep the industry above 67% transported every month (or at least 6+ months out of 12 in a year) otherwise the industry WILL die (FOR SURE), all it takes is time
21:37:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21154 /trunk/src/lang/ (50 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#4223]: OPF has been removed for trains, so the 90 degree turn option doesn't need to mention it's not supported for OPF
21:37:12  <Alberth> avdg: sorry, awfully busy atm
21:37:21  <avdg> nvm then
21:37:47  <Wasila> Which means? D:
21:37:54  <avdg>
21:37:57  <Wasila> I have to change something in 56 then the same in 53?
21:38:00  <andythenorth> nah
21:38:04  <andythenorth> something in 53
21:38:06  <andythenorth> I think
21:38:18  <Wasila> 53 * 18	 02 00 54 81 10 00 FF 02 01 80 01 09 00 80 0A 0A FF FF
21:38:39  <Wasila> No 8s, but two A's, so I take it it's 10?
21:39:05  <andythenorth> Wasila: yes
21:39:10  <andythenorth> how many wagons do you want?
21:39:22  <Wasila> I want 5 tiles - it's 3 now
21:40:05  <Wasila> So 16 2/3 <_<
21:40:34  <andythenorth> Wasila:
21:41:03  <andythenorth> you need to mod lines 4 and 5 in the paste
21:41:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21155 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix [FS#4222] (r14959): default service interval for ships/aircraft got switched
21:41:51  <andythenorth> Wasila: make sense, or do you need more clues? :)
21:42:54  <Wasila> Wait, what's vehicle 1 and 0? Is one the wagon and one the engine?
21:42:58  <Wasila> More clues <_<
21:43:18  <andythenorth> wagon is 1, engine is 0
21:43:32  <andythenorth> the name strings give you a clue, if you know how to read them ;)
21:44:39  <Wasila> So if I wanted 14 wagons, would line 4 become '01 80 01 0E'??
21:44:53  * Wasila crosses fingers
21:44:54  <andythenorth> yes
21:45:02  <andythenorth> but you need to change line 5 as well
21:45:14  <Wasila> to
21:45:15  <andythenorth> or you'll get either (1) failure to build or (2) weird result :P
21:45:21  <Wasila> 00 80 0A 10?
21:45:28  <Wasila> For 16?
21:45:39  <andythenorth> 00 80 0F 0F in that case
21:46:06  <Wasila> Does dual-headed train only count for one?
21:46:58  <andythenorth> It doesn't count the first vehicle in that particular piece of code
21:47:04  <andythenorth> the first vehicle already exists
21:47:10  <andythenorth> when that code runs
21:47:32  <andythenorth> try it and see :)
21:49:20  <AveiMil> Where can I read about cargo stocked at a station and at what rate it dissapears?
21:49:24  <Wasila> Back end of train has magically disappeared
21:50:54  <Samu> rubidium or someone
21:51:03  <Samu> is it possible to have a "always on top" feature?
21:51:12  <Samu> for the whole program of course
21:51:36  <Samu> always visible or always on top
21:51:41  <__ln__> Rubidium: would be nice if the configure script logged into config.log what options were given to configure.
21:51:41  <SmatZ> Samu: depends on your WM
21:51:46  <Rubidium> Samu: you mean the whole OpenTTD window?
21:51:56  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@] has joined #openttd
21:51:59  <Samu> yes, I mean that
21:52:00  <Rubidium> in that case I suggest you use a better window manager
21:52:06  <Wasila> andythenorth: There are 15 wagons but only 1 engine
21:52:43  <Samu> I'm using windows xp
21:52:58  <Samu> i can chose to split windows horizontaly, verticaly, in cascade
21:53:03  <Alberth> that sounds like your problem :)
21:53:19  <Samu> but a always on top would be better
21:53:43  <Alberth> Samu: I am sure someone has invented other window handler thingies for XP
21:55:12  <Samu> oh well, t.t
21:55:17  <Rubidium> but you're talking about a Windows only feature, so you're probably more experienced than I am
21:55:43  <Samu> well, yeah, some programs have that choice
21:56:18  <Samu> you right click on the program on the task bar and have an option to make it always on top or always visible
21:57:00  <Wasila> andythenorth: there appears to be some sort of upper limit on the carriages. I set it up again to 16/18 but it stayed down
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22:01:40  <AveiMil> Can you change the cargo delivery payment rates via NewGRF?
22:02:00  <SmatZ> yes
22:02:06  <Samu> does anyone here use windows xp?
22:02:14  <SmatZ> yes
22:02:37  <Samu> there is a way to globally increase the size of everything
22:02:49  <Samu> let me check
22:02:51  <SmatZ> lower screen resolution
22:03:06  <SpComb> UTF-16
22:03:11  <Samu> ah
22:03:21  <Samu> rigght click the desktop
22:03:27  <Rubidium> SpComb: that doesn't increase the size of everything :)
22:03:33  <Samu> and properties
22:03:42  <SpComb> 16-bit RGB then
22:03:43  <Samu> then the last tab, settings
22:03:49  <Samu> advanced button
22:03:50  <SpComb> as in, 16-bit color channels
22:04:04  <SmatZ> do not use 16bit colors if you can use 32bit
22:04:05  <Samu> and visualization
22:04:13  <Samu> normal size is 100%
22:04:18  <Samu> I currently put it to 125%
22:04:29  <Samu> it works for most windowed programs, not on openttd
22:04:46  <SmatZ> Samu: edit openttd.cfg ... there is some... font size setting
22:04:53  <Rubidium> so you lied; it doesn't increase the size of everything
22:05:00  <SmatZ> small_font =
22:05:01  <SmatZ> medium_font =
22:05:03  <SmatZ> large_font =
22:05:04  <SmatZ> Rubidium: hehe :)
22:05:31  <Samu> did you find it smatz?
22:05:37  <Samu> 96 ppp, 120 ppp?
22:05:46  <SmatZ> Samu: I am not using windows XP
22:05:47  <AveiMil> SmatZ, how does cargo stockpiled at stations work? At what rate do they start to dissapear if nothing it loading?
22:05:50  <andythenorth> Wasila: perhaps there's a limit for articulated trains
22:05:57  <AveiMil> Can't find anything on that in the wiki
22:06:16  <SmatZ> Samu: to make everything larger, lower screen resolution
22:06:18  <Samu> could OpenTTD redraw graphics based on this setting?
22:06:33  <Samu> :(
22:06:38  <Samu> not exactly the same thing
22:06:39  <Rubidium> andythenorth: ofcourse there's a limit for articulated trains (or road vehicles)
22:06:45  <SmatZ> Samu: not sure if OpenTTD respects that settings (when using system fonts) - it might need openttd restart at least
22:07:00  <SmatZ> if you use built-in fonts, it won't work for sure
22:07:08  <Samu> it's not a font size only
22:07:23  <Samu> it's a 'visualization size' if my translation is correct
22:07:24  <Rubidium> andythenorth: although the limit is 100 carriages (or parts)
22:07:26  <andythenorth> Rubidium: 65536?
22:07:30  <andythenorth> oh
22:07:34  <Samu> it increases icon sizes too
22:07:36  <Wasila> Very strange
22:07:37  <Samu> image sizes
22:07:42  <Samu> font sizes
22:07:47  <Samu> video sizes
22:08:16  <Rubidium> well, just post a feature request in the appropriate place (tm)
22:08:16  <andythenorth> Wasila: pastebin your code...
22:08:25  <SmatZ> AveiMil: uhh... I would have to have a look in the code :) I think at volume of 4096 it starts disappearing more quickly, and at volume of 16384 no more items are added
22:08:35  <SmatZ> there should be a wiki page for that
22:08:46  <Samu> it requires windows restart if you're going to change it
22:08:50  <SmatZ> (and Rubidium might correct me, as he coded the soft/hard limit, iirc :)
22:08:58  <SmatZ> Samu: silly windows  :p
22:09:13  <SmatZ> just lower the resolution
22:09:17  <SmatZ> it doesn't need restart
22:09:21  <SmatZ> and everything gets bigger
22:09:23  <SmatZ> :p
22:09:28  <Wasila> Pastebin seems to have assploded
22:09:29  <Wasila> 53 * 18	 02 00 54 81 10 00 FF 02 01 80 01 10 00 80 12 12 FF FF
22:09:42  <SmatZ> I am using 1024x768 on my 21" CRT as well :p
22:10:00  <Wasila> nvm, I was on the wrong site.
22:10:00  <Wasila>
22:10:08  <Samu> it's about the same thing that most browsers use
22:10:12  <Samu> a zoom feature
22:10:18  <Samu> it zooms everything you see
22:10:21  <andythenorth> 53 * 18 02 00 54 81 10 00 FF 02 01 80 01 10 00 80 11 11 FF FF
22:10:25  <Samu> but globally
22:10:30  <SmatZ> FF increases just font size iirc
22:10:43  <Rubidium> SmatZ: newer ones increase images as well
22:10:47  <SmatZ> ok :)
22:11:00  <Rubidium> but that (occasionally) messes up layouts royally
22:11:06  <SmatZ> hehe :)
22:11:16  <Wasila> That's what I should replace it with?
22:11:27  <AveiMil> SmatZ, yes
22:11:38  <andythenorth> Wasila: explained here
22:11:50  <Samu> I'm on IE8 btw
22:11:58  <Wasila> lol IE
22:12:25  <Samu> there's a ie9 beta coming
22:12:30  <Samu> or out already
22:12:36  <Samu> not sure if i use it
22:12:59  <andythenorth> Wasila: you can paste in my commented code if that helps
22:13:05  <SmatZ> openttd GUI isn't in HTML :p
22:13:12  <andythenorth> grfcodec should ignore the comments
22:13:25  <Samu> mirc is using giant fonts already
22:13:42  <Samu> icons could be a bit bigger, but ok
22:13:50  <SmatZ> have you considered buying glasses?
22:13:56  <Wasila> My head hurts :(
22:13:57  <Samu> I have
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22:14:05  <Rubidium> SmatZ: yes, but they make it worse...
22:14:06  <Samu> heh :)
22:14:09  <Wasila> I pasted in what you just put up and now the Chimaera won't appear at all
22:14:10  <SmatZ> :-)
22:14:18  <andythenorth> oh
22:14:42  <andythenorth> Wasila: ok try this one 53 * 18 02 00 54 81 10 00 FF 02 01 80 01 10 00 80 11 11 FF FF
22:15:04  <Rubidium> oh, 3 times firefox but no internet explorer... how biased NFO is
22:15:24  <andythenorth> no safari either
22:15:25  <SmatZ> :)
22:15:29  <andythenorth> silly old nfo
22:16:35  <Samu> about the idea of presets for advanced settings, I agree
22:16:41  <Samu> there should be one
22:16:54  <Samu> (reading forum)
22:17:03  <Wasila> Only one engine, but that's OK. It's perfect
22:17:06  <Wasila> Thanks andythenorth ;)
22:17:29  <andythenorth> Wasila: with only one engine it will be underpowered :o
22:17:32  <AveiMil> In nml, FEAT_CARGOS, how can I find out what items and properties are available under that feature?
22:18:55  <andythenorth> Wasila: I'm not sure why there is only one engine
22:19:29  <Wasila> Do passengers weigh the train down? At empty it's going at full speed (and acceleration is insanely quick anyway)
22:19:40  <andythenorth> passengers have weight
22:19:52  * andythenorth thinks bedtime
22:20:00  <Rubidium> night andythenorth
22:20:04  <andythenorth> Wasila: you're now a newgrf author :P
22:20:07  <Alberth> Wasila: loaded and unloaded weight is mentioned when you buy a wagon
22:20:12  <andythenorth> good night
22:20:29  <Wasila> That is quite cool :o
22:20:34  <Wasila> Night andythenorth
22:20:35  <Wasila> Thanks a lot
22:20:45  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
22:20:51  <Samu> there is a feature in av8 that i liked
22:20:59  <Wasila> Meh, I'm not too fussed about it.
22:21:01  <Wasila> Thanks anyway
22:21:16  <Samu> it could be implemented in the original planes, the size they are
22:21:44  <Samu> a Line saying: aircraft type: Small/Large/Helicopter
22:21:53  <Wasila> Now I can get back to my international network
22:23:44  <AveiMil> In nml, FEAT_CARGOS, how can I find out what items and properties are available under that feature?
22:24:13  <AveiMil> planetmaker, art thou here?
22:25:06  <Samu> hey
22:26:32  <Samu> I'll post it on the bugtracker
22:27:30  <Alberth> not everything you post on the tracker gets fixed, and few people read it
22:29:18  <Samu> it's a feature request, more like a suggestion
22:29:42  <Alberth> then you better post it at the forums
22:29:43  <Samu> to add aircraft type: Small/Large/Helicopter
22:30:02  <Samu> ok
22:30:03  <Alberth> bug tracker is more for stuff that is coded
22:30:27  <Alberth> ie past 'suggestion' phase
22:31:02  <orudge> Ammler: are there any particular threads you're referring to? Usually locking is a last resort, or as a result of a particularly stupid thread, etc
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22:36:41  <Samu> here
22:36:43  <Samu>
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22:41:35  <Samu> heh, there's some translation inconsistencies, but it's ok
22:41:53  <AveiMil> Who knows nml?
22:42:09  <Samu> on those screenshots you can see on the left window "aeronaves" and on the right window "aviões"
22:43:03  <Samu> much like "planes" vs "aircraft"
22:43:31  <Samu> AveiMil i don't know sorry
22:46:18  <Alberth> AveiMil: PM does, but he is probably to bed already
22:47:06  <AveiMil> I figured it out by searrching in
22:47:22  <AveiMil> the only thing I don't know is how to figure out what the default values are
22:47:44  <AveiMil> Can you help me there?
22:48:21  <AveiMil> How can I find the default price cost info for Oil for instnace
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22:50:34  <Alberth> I'd expect such information in the action 0 properties of NewGraphicsSpecs
22:51:11  <Samu> is it intended that the cargo ship looks bigger than the oil ship, despite carrying less?
22:51:30  <AveiMil> 'pricefactor'               : {'num' : 0x12, 'size' : 4},
22:51:32  <AveiMil> that's all I see
22:52:25  <Alberth>   <-- here, I mean.  A table should be findable.
22:53:35  <AveiMil>
22:53:38  <AveiMil> I guess that? thanks
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22:58:25  <Samu> what does the red dot to the right side of company name on the bottom sidebar mean?
23:02:55  <Eddi|zuHause> that you suppressed a news message
23:03:34  <Eddi|zuHause> click to view it.
23:05:34  <Samu> ah, coool
23:05:59  *** Zuu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:06:09  <avdg> hidden features :)
23:07:26  <Wasila> see you guys
23:07:49  <avdg> gn
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23:08:06  <Samu> the transparency settings don't carry to the newspaper
23:08:14  <Samu> i guess it's intended
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23:08:49  <SmatZ> yes
23:11:17  <Samu> isn't the newspaper just another Viewport?
23:11:29  <Samu> hmm interesting
23:13:58  <SmatZ> it is
23:14:07  <SmatZ> it is a special viewport
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23:17:16  <Samu> I started a game with 14 AI's on a 2048x2048 map
23:17:44  <Samu> had to disable autosave, takes too long
23:17:48  <SmatZ> hope you have powerful CPU
23:17:57  <Samu> it's a poor pc
23:18:03  <SmatZ> it indeed is
23:18:06  <SmatZ> you torture it
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23:20:17  <Samu> when cycling through old news by clicking on the newsbar, it should only display those I have selected to display
23:20:34  <Samu> currently it displays even hidden news
23:21:21  <SmatZ> by design
23:21:43  <SmatZ> open a feature request :)
23:21:46  <Samu> ok
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23:32:33  <Samu>
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23:43:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i have a feeling this NekoMaster bloke hasn't learned _anything_ in the last 2 years
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23:48:29  <Samu> why does the cargo ship size is bigger than the oil tanker ship?
23:48:41  <Samu> opengfx
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23:49:52  <Samu> it should be switched, imo
23:51:02  <Samu> I'll make a poll, never made one :p
23:51:28  <Eddi|zuHause> you should just ask in the opengfx thread.
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23:52:38  <Samu> ok
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