Log for #openttd on 17th November 2010:
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00:02:44  <Samu> it's working fine :)
00:03:14  <Samu> whoever worked on the transfer system is a genious
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00:13:14  <Samu> question
00:13:23  <Samu> during subsidies
00:13:45  <Samu> when transferring from 1 to 2 and then delivering from 2 to 3, why does it apply the subsidy twice?
00:14:21  <Samu> from 1 to 2 there's no subsidy
00:14:47  <Samu> from 2 to 3, the subsidy applies to all the transfers in course
00:14:52  <Samu> is it supposed to be that way?
00:14:59  <glx> maybe a bug
00:15:17  <Samu> i give you numbers
00:15:30  <Samu> from 1 to 3, a direct system, no transfers, I receive
00:15:32  <glx> well the subsidy apply to "1 to 2" delivery
00:15:38  <glx> hmm 1 to 3
00:15:40  <Samu> sec, checking
00:16:24  <Samu> ok, this subsidy was 3x income
00:16:45  <Samu> it rewarded 1890
00:17:00  <Samu> it's 630 normal income
00:17:11  <Samu> the other truck, goes from 1 to 2 and 2 to 3
00:17:28  <Samu> from 1 to 2 there's no way for the game to know it's going to be subsidized, only from 2 to 3
00:17:42  <Samu> without subsidy
00:17:52  <Samu> 1 to 2 gets a transfer of 260
00:17:58  <planetmaker> good night
00:18:00  <Samu> from 2 to 3 transfer is 370
00:18:10  <Samu> 260+370 = 630 which is correct
00:18:18  <Samu> but during subsidy
00:18:38  <Samu> those 260 will be multiplied by 3
00:18:42  <Eddi|nichZuHause2> subsidy is for the whole route
00:19:08  <Samu> shouldn't it only be 250+370*3?
00:19:11  <Samu> 260
00:19:13  <glx> cargo knows where it comes from
00:19:25  <glx> and it's 1 to 3
00:19:35  <Samu> ah, so it's correct
00:19:37  <glx> you're paid for the whole route
00:19:55  <Eddi|nichZuHause2> all cargo originating in Town A, and final delivery in Town B will get x3
00:20:08  <glx> transfer are virtual money only for the vehicles
00:22:43  <Samu> 1630 is the final number
00:22:49  <Samu> wondering how this was calculated
00:23:05  <Samu> 1890-260?
00:23:19  <glx> yes
00:23:50  <Samu> 1630 was the real income when it went from 2 to 3
00:23:59  <Samu> bug or intended?
00:24:01  <glx> but that's the revenue for the vehicle :)
00:24:48  <glx> your income was 1890
00:26:09  <glx> but it's easier to just don't care, making money is easy enough to not look into details
00:28:19  <Samu> I think I get it
00:28:41  <Samu> distance from 1 to 2 is not equal to distance from 2 to 3
00:28:56  <Samu> distance from 1 to 3 is however, equal to distance from 1 to 2 + 2 to 3
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00:29:23  <Samu> it still counts when calculating transfer
00:31:45  <Hirundo> transfer money is just like today's euros/dollars; they look nice but they have no actual value
00:32:11  <Samu> tomorrow I'll do a better testing scenario about this
00:32:22  <Samu> equal distances between all stations
00:32:26  <Samu> gotta go
00:32:38  <Samu> bye
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02:45:25  <ccfreak2k> I think FIRS should be called A Fistful of Industries.
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07:17:38  <Terkhen> good morning
07:18:08  <Rubidium> ola Terkhen
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07:19:02  <Terkhen> wow, what a nasty bug... I wonder why that code works for road vehicles
07:19:22  <Rubidium> because RVs don't need 0 speed for turning
07:19:47  <Rubidium> i.e. for RVs turning is just going through two corners at the end of a road tile
07:20:05  <planetmaker> good morning
07:20:06  <Rubidium> whereas turning of trains entails stopping and really going the other way
07:20:10  <Rubidium> moi planetmaker
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07:20:57  <Terkhen> oh, I see
07:21:16  <Terkhen> hi planetmaker
07:23:45  <Ammler> heya people, hmm, god already switched to arctic climate here, snowline below :-/
07:24:09  <planetmaker> he :-)
07:24:21  <planetmaker> when I returned last night it was freezing here, too
07:24:33  <Rubidium> nah, you already were in the arctic climate. Just the snowline (from the NewGRF) wasn't set low enough for the previous days
07:24:50  <Ammler> the house roofs are white in the neighbour hood
07:25:09  <planetmaker> that's early for my liking, but well :-)
07:28:58  <planetmaker> the only thing which is IMHO really bad about winter is that it gets dark *really* early
07:29:13  <Terkhen> here too, but the snowline is still set to 3 km
07:32:02  <Ammler> I am at 900m and already white
07:32:27  <Ammler> oh well, you are the sunny guy here :-P
07:35:07  <Terkhen> :)
07:35:34  <Eddi|nichZuHause> yes, it's almost dark here already :p
07:35:45  <Terkhen> hmmm...
07:36:34  * Terkhen wonders why he never noticed that road vehicles brake instantly under realistic acceleration
07:39:37  <Terkhen> I also wonder if it is worth it to add that; to me it seems like something added just for the sake of realism
07:39:57  <planetmaker> Belugas will love you for that ;-)
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07:42:06  <Terkhen> I am already happy with how the acceleration works, that probably means that I don't feel braking slowly is needed or I would have noticed by now
07:42:22  <Rubidium> s/realism/consistency/ s/Belugas/SmatZ/
07:42:32  <planetmaker> :-) I wouldn't have noticed it either, Terkhen :-)
07:42:59  <Terkhen> time for coffee, maybe the world and my words will make sense after that
07:43:11  <planetmaker> :-D
07:47:17  <planetmaker> Hm... I've a dilemma: on the German keyboard ^ (a dead key usually) opens the console. So either I treat that key as a key modifier or I let it open/close the console and not work properly otherwise.
07:47:44  <planetmaker> Or I just ignore that and live with the fact that < also opens the console, but without any problem
07:48:06  <planetmaker> But I'm not even sure what the 'correct' behaviour in such case would be.
07:48:06  <Ammler> which console?
07:48:11  <planetmaker> openttd ingame
07:48:32  <Ammler> that is here §
07:48:35  <planetmaker> Swiss keyboard layout might yet be different. But left of 1 is ^
07:48:40  <Ammler> a char you never use
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07:49:14  <planetmaker> But it's nice to be able to add signs like señor or égalité
07:49:40  <planetmaker> but opening the console an then nearly inevitable have a ^ as first character is also bad
07:49:49  <planetmaker> unless I change my habit
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07:50:02  <planetmaker> to use <. But then the key left of 1 is standard afaik
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07:51:00  <planetmaker> hm... my hotkeys.cfg lists it as 'BACKQUOTE'
07:51:10  <planetmaker> I wonder what any of those keys has to do with 'backquote'
07:52:22  <Terkhen> hmm... that's right, it should be consistent
07:53:08  <Terkhen> besides, the common acceleration code should already handle braking slowly, but the speed is being set to zero somewhere
07:58:24  <Terkhen> of course, it's more complicated than that :)
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08:37:34  <IchGuckLive> Hi from Germany
08:37:56  <IchGuckLive> is somthing wrong with the homepage i can not connect to it
08:38:25  <IchGuckLive> Quest can i turn (rotate)the map
08:38:26  <planetmaker> yes. server issues
08:39:56  <Terkhen> the map can't be rotated
08:40:10  <IchGuckLive> thank ypou
08:40:10  <planetmaker> question != quest
08:40:42  <IchGuckLive> ah ok sorry im 54 my english is not  perfect
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08:44:16  <IchGuckLive> i'am living around Ramstein/AFB Germany 75 thousand American soldier around in a 5 thousand German City
08:45:40  <Ammler> still, thought they are gone since 89
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08:46:14  <IchGuckLive> there are Centerd in spots
08:46:19  <planetmaker> Ammler: not really. nor why should they?
08:46:28  <planetmaker> it's the USAF's European hub air base
08:47:18  <planetmaker> though I doubt they have 75k soldiers there ;-)
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08:51:46  <Ammler> yeah, wikipedia tells something else, also no jets anymore
08:54:54  <planetmaker> none? I believe it's a place to host strategical bombers
08:55:29  <planetmaker> and even rumored to have nukes there
08:55:37  <planetmaker> (even though it must not be admitted)
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08:57:26  <planetmaker> maybe not anymore, though
08:57:30  <planetmaker> who knows ;-)
08:57:48  <Ammler> hehe
08:58:02  <Ammler> I hope, your officials do
08:58:53  <Ammler> everything what is done from there is kinda also part of Germany
09:01:09  <planetmaker> sure it is... But not much control there...
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09:02:32  <IchGuckLive> what does at start at end mean at the traffic plan ?
09:03:48  <planetmaker> if your station is longer than the train it sets the place where the train actually stops
09:04:19  <IchGuckLive> ok
09:04:39  <andythenorth> Rubidium: wondering if the FIRS bug you found is caused by this known issue:
09:04:39  <andythenorth>  #include "sprites/nfo/industries/quarry.pnfo"
09:04:40  <andythenorth>  #include "sprites/nfo/industries/sawmill.pnfo"
09:04:40  <andythenorth>  #include "sprites/nfo/industries/sheepfarm.pnfo"
09:04:46  <andythenorth> oops, paste fail :o
09:04:49  <andythenorth>
09:04:56  <IchGuckLive> after now 3days the signaling is moe confuse then at the start
09:06:25  <Rubidium> I've got no idea
09:08:14  <andythenorth> well there are some plausible reasons it would be that issue :)
09:08:41  <andythenorth> I'll leave the bug open and hope it goes away when I make changes elsewhere
09:09:20  <IchGuckLive> is ther somthing i can do on a long rail track to avoid crash
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09:09:39  <andythenorth> IchGuckLive: ask a better question? :P
09:09:59  <andythenorth> ;)
09:10:16  <planetmaker> IchGuckLive: trains don't crash. Unless you ask specifically for it by telling a train to ignore signals
09:10:39  <IchGuckLive> breakdown
09:10:40  * andythenorth just thought of an awesome prank
09:10:50  <andythenorth> switch someone's smiley icon set to invert them :D
09:11:34  <planetmaker> if you play with break-downs you cannot avoid them completely
09:12:09  <IchGuckLive> so is there a hook anywhere that i can get rid of breakdowns
09:12:37  <andythenorth> yes
09:12:44  * andythenorth looks
09:12:51  <planetmaker> difficulty settings
09:12:53  <andythenorth> difficulty setting
09:13:19  <IchGuckLive> not to change in a runing game
09:13:33  <IchGuckLive> only at the start of a new one
09:13:44  <andythenorth> can use that in a game, or at the start of a new one
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09:16:29  <IchGuckLive> thanks
09:16:44  <IchGuckLive> rest is over so till  later BY
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09:33:43  <ccfreak2k>
09:33:52  <ccfreak2k> Apparently, before there was ttd, there was this.
09:34:39  <b_jonas> ccfreak2k: there was also Railroad Tycoon
09:35:15  <b_jonas> ccfreak2k: given how model trains was kind of how hacker culture started, it's no wonder there are lots of train simulation games
09:35:46  <__ln___> before TTD, there was TT.
09:39:09  <andythenorth> google 'tech model railroad club'
09:39:13  <andythenorth> and also 'space war'
09:39:22  * andythenorth spent far too much time with trains and lego as a kid
09:40:28  <b_jonas> I tried to build a motorized lego car with a gearbox with more than two gears instead, but never succeeded
09:40:34  <b_jonas> two gears are easy
09:41:09  <b_jonas> though I also never built one that had two gears and switched automatically depending on which direction you run the engine
09:41:10  <ccfreak2k> I tried the same thing, but in garrysmod.
09:41:22  <ccfreak2k> More recently.
09:42:09  <andythenorth> b_jonas:
09:44:04  <b_jonas> andythenorth: yes, that's even cooler
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10:38:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21219 /extra/masterserver_updater/src/shared/newgrf_config.h: [MSU] -Fix (r19256): not properly clearing memory when allocating GRFConfig
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12:29:02  <fjb> Moin
12:30:05  <planetmaker> hi fjb
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12:38:02  <SmatZ> Terkhen: ships stop instantly as well :)
12:38:10  <SmatZ> and aircraft too, if not flying...
12:38:13  <SmatZ> hello all :)
12:38:17  <Terkhen> hi SmatZ :)
12:38:44  <planetmaker> moin SmatZ :-)
12:39:07  <SmatZ> hello Terkhen and planetmaker :)
12:39:30  <avdg> hi
12:39:38  <Terkhen> IMO gradual stop is not really needed for road vehicles; not even if we wanted to consider realism reasons
12:39:42  <SmatZ> hello avdg
12:39:51  <Terkhen> so the only reason to include that would be consistency between all vehicle types with realistic acceleration
12:40:27  <SmatZ> RVs have much bigger tractive effort than trains
12:40:35  <SmatZ> said in that terminology :)
12:40:47  <SmatZ> hmm
12:40:54  <SmatZ> maybe not, they are much  lighter
12:41:41  <SmatZ> but anyway, RVs can stop at several tens of meters from full speed, trains at kilometers
12:41:46  <SmatZ> so it makes sense :)
12:41:46  <Terkhen> yes; what I mean is that I have never heard of a truck requiring a few kilometers to brake
12:42:05  <Terkhen> so it even makes sense to let them stop "instantaneously"
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12:45:34  <fjb> There are trucks which have trouble to stop at all downhill. But that is another story, I guess.
12:46:40  <SmatZ> is the slope even accounted in acceleration?
12:47:33  <b_jonas> SmatZ: it is for trains in the traditional non-realistic model I think
12:47:44  <b_jonas> maybe in the realistic too, but not as much
12:48:05  <b_jonas> but I noticed that my ships seem to go up on consecutive locks just as fast as on normal sea
12:48:14  <b_jonas> which seems a bit unrealistic
12:48:21  <Terkhen> the slope is accounted, yes
12:48:35  <SmatZ> b_jonas: Terkhen: ok, thanks, I just can't find it :)
12:48:52  <b_jonas> but then the locks are expensive so maybe they have huge reserves of water and fill very fast
12:51:23  <SmatZ> found it, GetSlopeResistance() :)
12:52:13  <b_jonas> and, as everyone knows, ttdspace is distorted, the sea squares are much larger than the road squares.
12:52:21  <fjb> Trucks which are unable to stop downhill if they are fully loaded would be fun. :-)
12:52:39  <SmatZ> :)
12:54:09  * fjb is still playing r19639 because of the cargo distribution patch.
12:54:30  <b_jonas> fjb: there was a patch that puts vegetation on unused train tracks which slows down trains but shrink if a train goes there. combine that with this so fully loaded trucks can't stop on downhill slopes above snow level that weren't used for ages
12:56:00  <fjb> Icy roads on slopes. :-)
12:56:17  <andythenorth> road types
12:56:19  <andythenorth> :P
12:56:37  <andythenorth> drop the coefficient of friction ~0 on ice
12:56:55  <fjb> Hm, where is Peter?
12:57:51  <__ln___> which one?
12:57:53  <b_jonas> but, in general, trucks having problems on snowy roads makes more sense to me than trains stopped by lush vegetation
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12:58:22  <b_jonas> though actually that applies more to cars in cities than trucks
12:58:47  <andythenorth>
13:01:57  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... something's suddenly wrong with ICQ... it says my password is wrong?!
13:02:36  <__ln___> Eddi|zuHause: same here a few days ago
13:02:51  <Eddi|zuHause> any reason?
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13:03:15  <__ln___> try disabling SSL
13:03:52  <fjb> __ln___: The nice one.
13:04:53  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: ICQ getting agressive against third party clients I guess.
13:08:26  <planetmaker> <andythenorth> drop the coefficient of friction ~0 on ice <-- we had that last night already...
13:13:56  <Eddi|zuHause> apparently needs changing the login server to ""
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13:34:15  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: just change the login server to
13:34:24  <Ammler> oh :-)
13:34:30  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i found out ;)
13:34:34  <Ammler> I just read to the end :-P
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14:05:36  <Belugas> hello
14:06:02  <Terkhen> hello Belugas
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14:07:15  <Belugas> hi hi senor Terkhen :)
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14:07:45  <planetmaker> salut sir Belugas
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14:08:55  <Belugas> sir planetmaker :)
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14:09:02  <Belugas> how's life you all ?
14:10:01  <SmatZ> not bad :)
14:12:54  <Belugas> good to know.  same here, apart the rain and dark sky, but... after all, it's fall. and not winter yet!
14:15:14  <SmatZ> :-)
14:23:01  <fjb> Moin Belugas
14:23:19  <Belugas> ho... and my brother called me , we're going to put concrete on my basement floor in two saturdays. this weekend, we're going to transport th concrete bags.  30kg each.  25 to carry from the store to down the stairs
14:23:32  <Belugas> hooo... my poor programmer's back :S
14:23:35  <SmatZ> :(
14:23:52  <planetmaker> uh :-(
14:24:01  <Rubidium> poor Belugas... you'd never find 30kg bags here
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14:24:13  <Belugas> no???
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14:24:55  <ooovooo2> hi
14:24:56  <Rubidium> Belugas: no, legally workers may only carry 25kg (without a lifting device), so the bags in the shops are limited to that as well
14:24:59  <ooovooo2> I ned help
14:25:00  <ooovooo2> ?
14:25:03  <ooovooo2> plezz
14:25:14  <llugo> Don't ask to ask, just ask
14:25:15  <ooovooo2> I need help
14:25:28  <Belugas> me too!@!!! I NEED HELP!!!MY BACK WILL!!!!
14:25:41  <Rubidium> ooovooo2:
14:25:44  <Belugas> Rubidium, i like your country more than mine ;)
14:25:55  <planetmaker> Belugas, why?!
14:25:59  <Rubidium> Belugas: you'd need to go up/down that stair 30 times though
14:26:04  <ooovooo2>  want to play with a group on the game
14:26:11  <ooovooo2> how I can do it
14:26:17  <Belugas> planetmaker, they make lighter concrete bags ;)
14:26:41  <planetmaker> also... Belugas what about a dolly?
14:26:42  <Belugas> true that...
14:26:52  <Belugas> dolly? on th stairs?
14:26:53  <andythenorth> Belugas: what about an employee? :P
14:26:57  <Belugas> mmh... could be...
14:26:59  <planetmaker> Belugas, that's what it's for
14:27:07  <Belugas> naaa.... i'll do it with my bro;
14:27:08  <planetmaker> maybe I found the wrong word...
14:27:22  <planetmaker> sack barrow. sack truck
14:27:24  <planetmaker> whatever :-)=
14:27:46  <planetmaker> would still be easier than carrying it
14:27:49  <Belugas> ooovooo2, there's plenty of wiki / forums for that.  have you searched a bit?  have you tried a bit?
14:28:03  <Belugas> i think i know what you mean, planetmaker
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14:28:27  <planetmaker>
14:28:41  <andythenorth> slide
14:29:11  <planetmaker> oh... no patience those guys anymore
14:29:55  <Belugas> feeeed feeeeed feeeeed!!!!
14:29:57  <Belugas> hu?
14:30:04  <Belugas> no food?
14:30:13  <Belugas> oooooooouuuiiiiiiiinn!!!!
14:30:51  <Belugas> are we that bad?  should all queries be answered with a smile?
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14:31:04  <planetmaker> certainly not
14:33:50  * andythenorth requests a vote.  Explosives cargo for mining economy in FIRS....yes or no?
14:34:14  <fjb> Exploding trucks! I want it.
14:34:16  <andythenorth> (potential problem due to war theme)
14:35:07  <avdg> hmm, war in openttd?
14:35:39  <fjb> Everything could be used as a weapon, so I see no war thing in there. But I would strongly vote against explicit war stuff.
14:35:47  * avdg doesn't know how to simulate that ingame
14:39:10  <George> is it possible to transport cargo from the industry in the sea if the industry does not have the dock/helipad without rising a ground and building a dock on it?
14:39:45  <planetmaker> no
14:39:59  <planetmaker> except by building a train station in the vicinity
14:40:05  <planetmaker> or airport
14:40:14  <George> in TTDP it is possible to make a buoy that would store cargo
14:40:23  <planetmaker> but not in OpenTTD
14:40:47  <planetmaker> currently at least
14:40:48  <andythenorth> George: no
14:41:08  <planetmaker> but I know of no really good concept how that should be solved
14:41:10  <andythenorth> new airports / new stations will extend what stations can be included in an industry
14:41:13  <planetmaker> Except newgrf ports
14:41:23  <andythenorth> there's a proof of concept somewhere
14:42:17  <George> andythenorth: do you mean FS#2479 is solved?
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14:42:44  <andythenorth> George: no
14:42:51  <andythenorth> but there is some work towards it
14:43:03  <andythenorth> I don't know how much
14:43:14  <andythenorth> I don't know if new airports branch is making progress currently
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14:44:32  <George> who is doing new airports branch?
14:45:00  <andythenorth> yexo?
14:45:27  <planetmaker> the repo log suggests: not much going on
14:47:02  <__ln___> what's new about new airports?
14:47:04  <George> Yexo: are you here?
14:48:28  <planetmaker> __ln___, newgrf airports?
14:48:50  <Ammler> afaik, currently, it is able to rotate the default airports
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14:49:40  <planetmaker> that's in trunk
14:49:49  <planetmaker> maybe even stable. Don't know
14:50:16  <planetmaker> and the airportsplus newgrf implements that for the small airport
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14:50:32  <__ln___> isn't the runway kind of short and wide if i it's rotated 90°
14:50:53  <planetmaker> did you try the newgrf?
14:51:13  <planetmaker> if not... do so
14:51:58  <__ln___> i guess the only newgrf i've tried is trams
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14:56:51  <planetmaker> hm... should I err?
14:57:50  <planetmaker> well. At least OpenTTD supports it, but I fail to convince the small airport to rotate.
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15:38:48  <planetmaker> hm, any reason why vehicle variable 0x60 cannot be cached?
15:39:13  <Rubidium> parameter?
15:40:05  <planetmaker> yes
15:41:43  <SmatZ> for each vehicle, that value could represent number of vehicles with the same ID after it
15:42:00  <Rubidium> SmatZ: no, with one of 256 IDs
15:42:05  <SmatZ> so you would only need to find first matching vehicle
15:42:13  <SmatZ> Rubidium: oh
15:42:34  <Rubidium> and for each vehicle part
15:43:09  <planetmaker> hm
15:43:11  <Rubidium> as it basically counts the number of that ID currently+following
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15:44:53  <planetmaker> ok... it could be cached if it didn't accept a parameter but gave the number of the very same ID within the consist
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16:08:29  <Yexo> George: yes, I'm here. but I have to go in a few minutes
16:08:42  <Yexo> will be back later tonight, in about 5 or 6 hours
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16:13:29  <planetmaker> the question was about the current state of affairs on airports
16:13:47  <planetmaker> hi also and enjoy whatever you're bound to do :-)
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17:08:24  <Samu> hello
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17:30:09  <IchGuckLive> Hi are ther e somtiomes things disapearing (i put a station beside a Forest camp ) and as i  delevered a train there where no camp anymore ?
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17:31:07  <IchGuckLive> also is there a time between setting up a station and the station has some produktion
17:32:03  <SmatZ> bad luck
17:32:11  <IchGuckLive> O.O
17:32:35  <SmatZ> cargo starts appearing once first vehicle taking that cargo arrives
17:32:40  <SmatZ> (with default settings)
17:33:09  <IchGuckLive> is there a basic Strategie on the game ground to go for it
17:33:30  <IchGuckLive> SmatZ: so i got to put in the path wait for load
17:33:50  <Belugas> industries can get removed when not serviced, or if you enabled the cheat for destroying everything.  The town can use it too ;)
17:33:51  <SmatZ> IchGuckLive: yes, "full load" order is often useful
17:34:07  <IchGuckLive> there is a drop doun menue but it seams to only work one of the items in it
17:34:44  <SmatZ> IchGuckLive: you have to select the order by clicking on it
17:34:49  <IchGuckLive> is there a reading that tells the issues of the train contracts maybe a tutorial ?
17:35:19  <Samu> tutorial, that just gave me an idea
17:35:33  <IchGuckLive> B)
17:36:59  <Samu> gonna record TTD original tutorials to a video
17:37:20  <planetmaker> you could just go to youtube...
17:37:38  <Samu> i just won't be able to upload any time soon
17:37:46  <IchGuckLive> with basic strategie i mean From Download openttd generate a terrain then first go for cole to power then  busservice then ....
17:38:11  <planetmaker> go to our wiki...
17:38:25  <IchGuckLive> planetmaker: im there
17:38:31  <planetmaker> it even has a German translation of the tutorial...
17:38:51  <IchGuckLive> this give me only samples of eatch issue but no overview
17:39:37  <IchGuckLive> as i come from railroadtycoon im most interestet in trains  there it is only by transporting peopöle and mail
17:40:06  <planetmaker> then maybe youtube will indeed help you, it has lots of more or often less quality tutorials
17:40:20  <planetmaker> But I don't know them really, so I can't recommend any particular one
17:40:41  <IchGuckLive> in a chart you can see what type of wagon is giving you what money for  5 feald travel distance
17:41:04  <IchGuckLive> ok
17:41:20  <IchGuckLive> ao i youtube now
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17:43:08  <planetmaker> there's also an active German forum dedicated to OpenTTD and alike. - maybe they know there some good advice or tutorials in German.
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17:51:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21220 /trunk/src/ (57 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: give a string a much better name
17:53:16  <IchGuckLive> alot of fun stuff is playd around
17:54:08  <IchGuckLive>
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17:56:18  <IchGuckLive>
18:03:33  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21221 /trunk/src/ (58 files in 3 dirs): -Fix (r11429): short cargo units names for some cargo types/strings are not properly mapped to the strings that we use for the default industries
18:04:52  <andythenorth> Are "Rob's finished graphics" a massive GPL violation?
18:05:46  <andythenorth> I haven't decompiled it to see, but I can't think of an easy way to draw those sprites without infringing copyright
18:05:56  <andythenorth>
18:07:51  <Rubidium> andythenorth: if I read the first post correctly kamnet was given a blanket GPLv2 license by Rob for his work for the purpose of that conversion
18:08:04  <andythenorth> but Rob can't grant that license
18:08:20  <andythenorth> he's modifying S.F's original sprites
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18:08:35  <andythenorth> unless they've done it by comping in action 2 to insane level
18:08:49  <Rubidium> I've got no idea what he did
18:08:55  <SmatZ> modifying them wouldn't be violation of GPL
18:10:14  <andythenorth> in what way?
18:11:01  <andythenorth> violation / invalidation /s
18:11:43  <planetmaker> technically he could be in possession of the right to make derivative work of the original sprites
18:11:47  <planetmaker> but that's doubtful
18:12:01  <planetmaker> so I believe that andy most probably is right
18:12:27  <andythenorth> Pikka does much the same, but Pikka refuses any specific license
18:12:37  <andythenorth> it's one thing to infringe copyright on a dead game
18:12:47  <andythenorth> it's another to distribute that incorrectly under GPL
18:14:47  <IchGuckLive> on most of the Youtube vidios are they building there own terain or does the citys grow ?
18:14:48  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21222 /trunk/src/ (59 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: unify some string drawing and make it use the proper infrastructure for that...
18:15:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21223 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix: use proper plural for the short cargo unit names
18:15:54  <Rubidium> there... now the translators have some work again :)
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18:20:57  <planetmaker> month{P 0:1 "" s} <-- what does that exactly do?
18:21:07  <planetmaker> 0 months, 1 month, 2 months?
18:21:58  <Rubidium> planetmaker: exactly
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18:25:23  <Eddi|zuHause> isn't the 0:1 something that picks which parameter this is based on?
18:26:00  <frosch123> yes
18:26:35  <frosch123> of parameter 0 the subparameter 1
18:26:44  <frosch123> or so
18:34:03  <SmatZ> hmm czech translation of STR_CONFIG_SETTING_HOVER_DELAY is nonsencial
18:34:11  <SmatZ> but how to translate "hover events"?
18:34:20  <SmatZ> does that make sense in English? :)
18:35:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21224 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix [FS#4172]: [NewGRF] The specs' cargo strings and OpenTTD's use of the clashed. Provide properties so NewGRFs can provide cargo strings tailored for OpenTTD while retaining (some) backward compatability
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18:38:50  <planetmaker> SmatZ, "mouse over" better translatable?
18:40:22  <SmatZ> planetmaker: I just changed it to "delay to show tooltip"
18:40:37  <SmatZ> the "last changed date" field is strange
18:40:42  <SmatZ> marek995 (revision 20854, 1 year ago)
18:40:53  <SmatZ> it's like, 2 months ago...
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18:44:15  <Rubidium> SmatZ: looked at the website's bug tracker?
18:44:17  <planetmaker> yes. That works or works not often in strange ways
18:44:48  <SmatZ> Rubidium: ok :)
18:44:57  <SmatZ> sorry
18:45:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r21225 /trunk/src/lang/ (14 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:45:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 7 changes by VoyagerOne
18:45:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 14 changes by SmatZ
18:45:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 2 changes by habell
18:45:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: finnish - 8 changes by USephiroth
18:45:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 6 changes by glx
18:46:34  <Rubidium> planetmaker: you are aware that {P "" ""} is utterly pointless?
18:46:51  <Rubidium> well, maybe besides documenting that there is no plural different :)
18:48:08  <planetmaker> yes, I'm aware.
18:48:53  <planetmaker> But it indeed documents that a plural could be used (even though it's in the current form of the sentence not)
18:49:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21226 /trunk/src/lang/ (croatian.txt italian.txt): -Fix: load of failures of WT3 to properly validate some strings...
18:53:40  <SmatZ> Rubidium: what was broken in italian?
18:58:15  <Rubidium> you mean you haven't spotted it yet?
18:58:28  <Rubidium> ) != }
19:00:25  <SmatZ> oohh :)
19:00:31  <SmatZ> thanks
19:05:21  <planetmaker> <--- poor wallyweb was installed into the grf files. :-P I wonder how he'll get out again ;-)
19:07:47  <SmatZ> :D
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19:41:16  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21227 /trunk/src/lang/polish.txt: -Fix (r21222): conversion didn't go right when cases were involved
19:42:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21228 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_text.cpp settings_gui.cpp): -Fix: some MSVC 64 bits warnings
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20:04:51  <Samu> hi
20:05:18  <Samu> i'm recording TTD tutorial videos
20:06:02  <Samu> virtualdub creates invalid videos when I encode audio to flac
20:06:12  <Samu> but it works when its encoded to mp3
20:06:14  <planetmaker> use another tool then
20:06:15  <Samu> :(
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20:06:54  <Samu> the original sounds are in which format?
20:07:04  <Samu> 22050, 8 bit mono?
20:07:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i think 11kHz
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20:07:33  <Eddi|zuHause> really not sure, though
20:08:11  <Ammler> what is bad with mp3?
20:08:41  <Samu> do you think youtube accepts zipped motion block video
20:08:46  <Samu> mp3 is not free
20:08:48  <Samu> flac is
20:09:09  <Ammler> youtube doesn't allow movies with mp3 sounds? :-o
20:10:30  <Samu> road vehicle tutorial is 26 MB zmbv/mp3 encoders
20:10:42  <Samu> can't send it
20:10:48  <Samu> maybe next month
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20:40:01  <Eddi|zuHause> wtf is up with obscure esoteric video formats?
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20:40:48  <Eddi|zuHause> why can't you do H.264/mp3 like everybody else on the planet?
20:42:43  <Samu> h.264 is 32-bit
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20:43:19  <Samu> ttd isn't 32-bit
20:43:23  <Samu> 8bit
20:43:30  <Samu> zmvb is better
20:43:42  <Samu> zmbv
20:44:15  <Samu> I don't have fddshow here, but I bet it would lose quality
20:44:33  <Samu> zmbv is lossless
20:44:59  <Eddi|zuHause> so, why youtube then?
20:45:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure you can ask orudge for TT-related hosting
20:48:03  <orudge> It would seem to be silly to include the audio to a tutorial video in FLAC, it's just not necessary. MP3 would be fine and playable by almost everybody. Ogg Vorbis if you're particularly bothered about the legalities, although I still think that if you do record your videos in this ZMBV with something like Vorbis as audio, almost nobody will be able to easily play your videos
20:48:12  <orudge> unless they've installed VLC or ffdshow or something, which many "newbies" won't have.
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20:48:40  <orudge> So while they may be lossy, I would have thought using xvid and MP3 like everybody else (or just uploading to YouTube) would probably be the best thing
20:49:05  <orudge> You can upload in some kind of high-resolution x264 format to YouTube, and get "HD" video on there too
20:49:18  <Rubidium> 1080p :)
20:49:24  <orudge> quite
20:50:45  <Rubidium> must say I've seem pretty high quality 1080p stuff on youtube
20:51:03  <orudge> I tend to find 720p to be sufficient on YouTube, and often better quality than the 1080p
20:51:24  <orudge> since the bitrate increase from 720p to 1080p isn't really sufficient to maintain as high a quality
20:51:29  <orudge> but that's perhaps just my view of it
20:51:30  *** azaghal_ is now known as azaghal
20:52:49  <Samu> 480p
20:53:01  <Samu> is what ttd uses
20:53:16  <orudge> well
20:53:25  <orudge> if you're talking about the original DOS or Windows TTD, then yes
20:53:35  <orudge> although, Windows TTD can of course have an increased resolution using TTDPatch
20:53:39  <orudge> and OpenTTD can use any resolution
20:53:45  <Samu> yes, I'm recording those tutorials
20:58:02  <Samu> lol, ship tutorial is terrible
20:58:39  <michi_cc> planetmaker: You sure that Passagiers is correct? :)
20:59:01  <planetmaker> absolutely!
21:01:02  <planetmaker> but you won a cookie in the attention for translation competition ;-)
21:01:06  <Eddi|zuHause>
21:03:57  <b_jonas> Samu: great
21:04:07  <b_jonas> we need good tutorials
21:04:11  <b_jonas> and some people like videa
21:05:07  <planetmaker> Then a tutorial re-played with OpenTTD would be more helpful, though, than one with the original TTD
21:05:25  <b_jonas> yep
21:05:28  *** nicfer [~nicfer@] has joined #openttd
21:05:48  <b_jonas> and possibly one that openttd itself replays, instead of a video stream
21:06:20  <Eddi|zuHause> those existed once, but they were unusable as soon as new features got added.
21:07:25  <b_jonas> yeah, that might be a problem
21:07:31  <Samu> all 5 tutorials recorded
21:07:37  <b_jonas> great
21:07:45  <Samu> ship tutorial is bad
21:07:52  <Samu> gonna install original tt
21:07:57  <Samu> it also has tutorials
21:08:21  <planetmaker> better make a tutorial.
21:08:29  <planetmaker> Than making a video of another game
21:09:29  *** JVassie_ [~James@] has joined #openttd
21:10:14  <AveiMil> are there any youtube tutorials that cover signals in depth?
21:10:34  <Samu> I wish I could, but I have no program that can record OTTD
21:10:48  <AveiMil> fraps?
21:10:50  <Samu> seems like it's GDI
21:10:55  <Samu> my fraps doesn't work
21:11:09  <AveiMil> camstudio
21:11:17  <Samu> doesn't recognize openttd
21:12:14  <Eddi|zuHause> openttd uses GDI [on windows], but can be configured to use SDL instead
21:12:28  <SmatZ> it shouldn't be hard to patch openttd so it makes screenshot after each frame
21:13:01  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure that patch already exists
21:13:05  *** asnoehu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:13:43  <planetmaker> timelapse or so
21:13:52  <planetmaker> not after every frame there, but...
21:14:48  *** JVassie [~James@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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21:21:35  <Samu> there are 2 drivers
21:21:49  <Samu> win32 gdi video driver
21:21:52  <Samu> dedicated video driver
21:22:04  <Samu> or null video driver
21:22:12  <Samu> there's no sdl
21:22:18  <planetmaker> the latter will work great
21:22:22  <planetmaker> ;-)
21:22:54  <glx> right SDL is not in msvc builds
21:23:28  <Samu> OpenTTD Dedicated server
21:23:36  <Samu> looks like DOS
21:23:48  <Samu> listening to music and some industries
21:23:52  <Samu> what is this?
21:24:09  <Hirundo> does it quack like DOS?
21:24:37  <Samu> your script made an error: the index doesn't exist
21:24:42  <Samu> no idea what this is
21:27:00  <Samu> how do I copy what's showing?
21:27:22  <glx> that's an AI
21:27:26  <Samu> it's saying something about AroAI
21:27:35  <Samu> info.nut line 49
21:28:37  <Samu> could not create IPv6 socket on port []:0 (IPv6): No error
21:29:38  <Samu> vier has joined the game?
21:29:58  <Samu> and I hear it building
21:32:06  <__ln___> oh my, is it time for the monthly SDL discussion already?
21:33:16  <Samu> interesting , this is the console
21:33:20  <Samu> not a video driver
21:34:04  <glx> it is a video driver
21:34:04  *** ecke [~ecke@] has joined #openttd
21:34:28  <glx> it just does nothing ;)
21:37:06  *** ecke [~ecke@] has quit []
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21:41:47  * andythenorth wonders what to do
21:41:54  <andythenorth> and concludes 'sleep' :P
21:42:02  <planetmaker> sleep well :-)
21:50:23  <Mazur> Who says I'm sleeping?
21:50:35  <Mazur> Let alone well....
21:50:40  <Mazur> ;-D
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21:52:28  <Eddi|zuHause> i know wishing wells, but i can't imagine a sleeping well :p
21:53:28  <Mazur> I could see drowning well...
21:53:39  <Samu> what is a blitter?
21:53:45  *** Devroush [] has joined #openttd
21:53:53  <Prof_Frink> Something that blits.
21:53:54  <Mazur> A blithering twitter?
21:54:26  <Samu> openttd.exe -h
21:54:29  <Samu> lists some blitters
21:54:38  <Mazur> In a computer system, a blitter is a circuit, sometimes as a coprocessor or a logic block on a microprocessor, that is dedicated to the rapid movement and modification of data within that computer's memory
21:55:08  <Mazur> says Wikipedia, so don;t hold that against me.
21:56:08  <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably not it ;)
21:56:45  <Eddi|zuHause> <- that is evil :)
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21:57:48  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:57:59  <AveiMil> or genius :)
21:58:45  <Samu> omg, 8bpp-debug is funny
21:59:08  <perk11> Samu: why?
21:59:17  <Samu> looks like a rainbow game
21:59:42  <perk11> lol
21:59:42  <Eddi|zuHause> and who says we don't have easter eggs ;(
21:59:49  <Eddi|zuHause> ;)
22:01:04  <Samu> but what is this for
22:01:26  *** Pulec [] has quit []
22:01:28  <frosch123> for those who miss the old toyland sprites
22:01:59  <Samu> 32bpp-anim is slow as heck
22:02:19  <SmatZ> Samu: disable animation
22:02:39  <perk11> really funny, especially trains looking as a garland
22:03:38  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: <- oh... we need that for the real cops :)
22:03:47  <perk11> oh, there were cars, not trains
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22:04:55  *** Yexo_ is now known as Yexo
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22:07:33  *** Fast2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:08:58  <Prof_Frink> Rubidium: 'Dwarf did it better. Uncrop!
22:09:40  <Samu> you say there's a slowdown when switching music
22:10:18  *** FloSoft [] has joined #openttd
22:17:20  <Samu> known-bugs has an invalid information
22:17:35  <llugo> andythenorth, are you unquirking
22:17:38  <Samu> the game uses dmusic
22:17:43  <llugo> firs?
22:17:44  <Samu> without any command line
22:17:55  <llugo> ;)
22:18:06  <Samu> the text says win32 is the default driver
22:18:22  <Belugas> night
22:18:42  <llugo> (just read that explosives-part from the log)
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22:46:44  <Terkhen> good night
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22:46:54  <SmatZ> good night Terkhen
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23:04:46  <Samu> i'm now testing trasnfers again
23:07:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21229 /trunk/src/pathfinder/follow_track.hpp: -Fix [FS#4130]: [YAPF] Road vehicles not finding the nearest depot in some (corner) cases
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23:16:43  <Samu> how does the game count the distance?
23:17:00  <Samu> I enumerated 40 tiles
23:17:08  <Rubidium> like they do in New York
23:17:12  <planetmaker> use the measurement tool
23:17:24  <Samu> placed a station at tile 0, another at tile 20 and another at tile 40, all going through a straight line
23:17:33  <Samu> ok, checking
23:17:59  *** Jolteon [~Leftie@] has quit [Quit: Speech Thewapy Wools OK?]
23:18:06  <Samu> strange
23:18:17  <Samu> says 21 length
23:18:28  *** Jolteon [~Leftie@] has joined #openttd
23:18:28  <Samu> that would be 42
23:18:41  <Samu> but I counted 40 tiles
23:19:09  <Samu> does the first tile count as 1 distance?
23:19:29  <Samu> which is the point where the truck loads?
23:21:58  <Samu> I put the question in another way
23:22:16  <Samu> if 2 stations are adjacent to each other, what is the distance between them?
23:22:30  <Samu> 1 or 2?
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23:50:22  <Samu> I need help
23:50:41  <Samu> I am transporting 25000 liters of oil
23:50:47  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:50:52  <Samu> from 2 stations adjacent to each other
23:50:59  <Samu> and I gain £10
23:51:04  <Samu> how is this calculated
23:54:11  *** robotboy [] has joined #openttd
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23:55:05  <Samu> erm... speed matters
23:58:00  <Samu> nop, speed doesn't matter
23:58:07  <Samu> I don't get it
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