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00:02:59 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.54.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:35 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:16:39 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:18:03 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5B45.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 00:22:12 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd 00:23:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r21262 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: 00:23:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix (r18708)[FS#4246]: Custom station foundations using the 'simple 00:23:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: foundations'-method did not draw any sprite for WSE-slopes when there are 00:23:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: foundations on both neighboured tiles in the north. As there must be at least 00:23:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: one sprite to provide the correct offset for the groundsprite draw the (empty) 00:24:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: default foundation sprite in that case. 00:31:10 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-63-40.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:33:24 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-244-144.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 00:33:27 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 00:34:25 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7460.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:37:15 *** macee [macee@macee.vpk.bme.hu] has joined #openttd 00:39:39 *** macee [macee@macee.vpk.bme.hu] has left #openttd [] 00:39:45 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:54:45 *** AveiMil [~AveiMil@232.81-166-168.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:56:19 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF84AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:56:34 <Eddi|zuHause> <Zuu> jpcooper: As far as I've been informed, in Germany they have only capability to run trains on the "right" track, but not on the wrong one in case of unbalance in the network. <-- that heavily depends on the route. some routes are specially refit to handle "wrong way" traffic. 00:58:01 <Eddi|zuHause> it's generally very expensive to refit a line (switches, catenary, etc.) to bi-directional traffic in high speed 00:58:34 <Eddi|zuHause> for low speed, "only" the signalling must be adapted. 00:59:01 <Eddi|zuHause> "overtaking" usually happens while one train is standing. 00:59:21 <Eddi|zuHause> mostly at stations. 01:02:56 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.104.150] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 01:11:01 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:14:52 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AA07.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:03 *** Samu [Samu@159.47.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [] 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04:25:48 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has joined #openttd 04:35:12 <SmatZ> evening/morning 04:36:44 <supermop> good evening 04:37:02 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8ce17.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:09:59 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-96.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:37:54 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 05:54:55 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B775A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:55:11 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7532C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:18:59 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 06:38:01 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:38:56 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:51:35 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 07:05:01 <planetmaker> moin 07:15:59 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 07:15:59 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:25:59 *** pyth [~dirkjan@5352D707.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 07:32:47 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 07:35:00 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: more listen, more understand, more know] 07:54:39 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe8bde00-63.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:03:02 <Terkhen> good morning 08:07:06 *** asnoehu [~thok@524B7349.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:17:52 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7532C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:18:10 *** asnoehu [~thok@524B7349.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 08:18:39 *** heffer [~felix@hyperion.fetzig.org] has joined #openttd 08:19:07 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7532C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:23:00 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 08:31:58 *** roelmb [~roelmb@16.34-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #openttd 08:32:07 *** roelmb [~roelmb@16.34-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has left #openttd [] 08:47:07 *** green-devil [~agw@0603ds4-abc.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 08:50:31 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:50:34 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 09:09:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21263 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [FS#3935]: under some circumstances two vehicles could leave a non-drive through road stop at once 09:27:51 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 09:39:56 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 09:42:38 *** elmz_ [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 09:43:40 *** elmz__ [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 09:43:59 <Alberth> you'd say one time entering the channel is sufficient 09:44:08 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1CA2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:49:29 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:50:17 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 09:50:29 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:50:43 *** elmz_ [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:01:12 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:05:02 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba931c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:06:48 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d8228e7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:14:03 *** dageek [~dageek@87-194-2-213.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:24:33 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:25:56 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 10:26:48 *** dageek [~dageek@87-194-2-213.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: dageek] 10:36:13 *** roelmb [Guest848@16.55-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #openttd 10:44:34 *** roelmb [Guest848@16.55-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has left #openttd [] 10:48:49 *** AveiMil [~AveiMil@232.81-166-168.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 10:48:55 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-75-247.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:49:19 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5B45.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:01:36 <fjb> Moin 11:03:05 <planetmaker> hi fjb 11:03:21 <fjb> Hi planetmaker 11:03:45 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8ce17.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:09:04 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba931c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:11:36 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-124.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 11:21:38 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9FC0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:27:26 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd522.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:38:48 *** hermitek [~hermitek@ip-89-102-35-139.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 11:38:53 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 11:39:07 *** asnoehu [~thok@524B7349.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:42:57 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:45:03 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=51205&start=20 <-- popcorn out! :-P 11:45:37 <ccfreak2k> I'll be honest. 11:45:42 <ccfreak2k> Sometimes a diagonal road would be nice. 11:45:54 <ccfreak2k> Wouldn't mesh well with 3x3 cities, though. 11:47:05 <planetmaker> Given the thread, I find noteworthy especially the statement "I'm not too concerned about proportion" 11:47:52 *** IchGuckLive [~chatzilla@88-134-59-132-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 11:48:03 <frosch123> does someone have the c't magazine? 11:48:06 <IchGuckLive> Hi from sunny Germany 11:48:09 <planetmaker> I do, frosch123 11:48:13 <ccfreak2k> Yeah, it's a hijack post. 11:48:21 <IchGuckLive> i crashed 2 mag trains 11:48:27 <ccfreak2k> "Sorry about not being on topic at all, buuuut..." 11:48:28 <planetmaker> And yes, I checked it out :-) 11:48:38 <IchGuckLive> how long do i have to wait to use them again ? 11:48:38 <frosch123> does "prominently featuered" mean an article? or just on the cd? 11:48:57 <planetmaker> They write a few words on every programme on the CD 11:48:58 <ccfreak2k> 2 months? 11:49:14 *** asnoehu [~thok@524B7349.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 11:49:17 <IchGuckLive> i cant build any signals on this track 11:49:29 <frosch123> ok, prissis' note sounded like "more" 11:49:37 <frosch123> in which case i would have bought it :) 11:49:40 <Terkhen> IchGuckLive: you have to wait until the maglev trains dissapear from the track 11:50:16 <IchGuckLive> since a lon time there is no train on the track 11:50:32 <IchGuckLive> cant convert the signal here ... 11:50:59 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.104.150] has joined #openttd 11:51:38 <planetmaker> frosch123: it's about 1/6 of a page 11:52:19 <Alberth> ccfreak2k: he hijacked hos own topic :) 11:52:27 <IchGuckLive> what are thise waypoints for on the mag reiltrack 11:52:35 <Rubidium> s/he/she/;s/hos/her/ 11:52:42 <frosch123> planetmaker: so, nothing you would pin over your bed :p 11:52:42 <Rubidium> after all, it's Fred's wife 11:52:43 <ccfreak2k> Oh, I thought it was a different poster. 11:53:26 <planetmaker> frosch123: too small for that and without picture, yes :-( 11:53:42 <planetmaker> It's also indicated as "OSX version available from their website" ;-) 11:54:02 <planetmaker> they only packed the windows version on the CD 11:55:29 <Alberth> IchGuckLive: you have waypoints for every type of track, they are used for steering trains to some specific track. See also http://wiki.openttd.org/Waypoint 11:57:49 <Ammler> heise removed the "OSX-logo" from the download section 11:58:36 <IchGuckLive> Alberth: thanks but i can not put any signal on the track after the train crashed 11:59:39 <Alberth> just wait until the fire brigade has cleared the mess :) 11:59:46 <Rubidium> so they didn't even follow our request of letting us see the "article" before press, so we could point out any errors 12:02:48 <IchGuckLive> no way to get any signal on the Track 12:09:48 <Alberth> we probably need a picture or a save game to help you with that 12:10:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21264 /trunk/ (10 files in 2 dirs): -Change: compress some PNGs more efficiently 12:10:31 <IchGuckLive> that is so desepointing i need signals to run 2 trains on a track but i cand builld signals even on a new tracksegment 12:12:46 <lugo> IchGuckLive, can you make a screenshot and upload it to http://imgur.com or the like 12:13:16 <Alberth> IchGuckLive: did you try http://wiki.openttd.org/Signals#Signal_Construction ? 12:14:37 <IchGuckLive> i wil but does it make sence a svreenshot 12:15:22 <IchGuckLive> i can build rails to the track fit trains on it but i can not build any signals 12:15:54 <IchGuckLive> i try to build one normal railway now just to lolok if this works 12:17:04 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host204-232-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 12:17:47 <Wolf01> hello 12:18:07 <IchGuckLive> no also now signal to a conventional raltrack i saved now the game 12:18:16 <IchGuckLive> shot down and restart it 12:20:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r21265 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#4245]: Don't setup target industry type counts if there are no industry types available. 12:20:49 <planetmaker> IchGuckLive: none of your last 5 sentences are even remotely correct on both accounts grammar and spelling and due to that their meaning can be guessed only by creative readers 12:21:10 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 12:21:30 <Alberth> also, without further information, we cannot help you 12:21:58 <IchGuckLive> planetmaker: sorry for my bad english 12:22:02 <ccfreak2k> As far as I can tell he placed non-electric rails, placed at least one signal, saved and restarted. 12:22:14 <IchGuckLive> planetmaker: Game is running now as it shoudt i restarted it 12:35:31 *** lewymati [~lewymati@dynamic-62-87-129-52.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #openttd 12:51:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21266 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Change: don't receive money for removing the rail of non-rail railstation tiles, i.e. rail station tiles for which the NewGRF has prevented trains to be routed 13:06:24 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 13:06:56 <IchGuckLive> so i do not understand the function of a waypoint can i advice it ,to put a train on a platform or does the AI this 13:08:29 <IchGuckLive> by the way my first large game gives me a 40bil loan no cheets involved 13:10:00 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba931c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:10:20 <IchGuckLive> shoudt i upgrade the old trains to a mag ? or only to electric ? 13:12:10 <lugo> it is for you to find out what works best :p - if you have the money, why not upgrade... 13:12:42 <IchGuckLive> ok 13:12:52 <IchGuckLive> By for today 13:12:56 *** IchGuckLive [~chatzilla@88-134-59-132-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]] 13:13:17 <Alberth> grr, I was writing a reponse for him :( 13:18:30 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:4c09:e174:1b4b:128c] has joined #openttd 13:23:29 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by DorpsGek 13:32:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r21267 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Doc: Typo fixes. 13:39:25 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 13:44:49 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5B45.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:45:06 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC3088.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:46:54 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 13:49:14 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC3088.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 13:56:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21268 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r21266): crash (or rather a triggered assertion) in some cases 14:04:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r21269 /trunk/src/table/station_land.h: -Codechange: Add TILE_SEQ_CHILD macro to construct child sprites in default stations sprite layouts. 14:11:41 *** pyth [~dirkjan@5352D707.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: pyth] 14:14:08 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r21270 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs): -Doc: Doxyment updates and additions. Removal of doxyment in code. 14:33:03 <Eddi|zuHause> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21266 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Change: don't receive money for removing the rail of non-rail railstation tiles, i.e. rail station tiles for which the NewGRF has prevented trains to be routed <- so now one can cheat money by deactivating the grf? or is the non-trackness meanwhile stored in the map array [which would imho be a good thing] 14:34:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21271 /trunk/src/pathfinder/yapf/yapf_costrail.hpp: 14:34:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Change: use the last red instead of last red exit penalty for making sure other 14:34:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: waypoint entries are evaluated as well when they are occupied, e.g. when there 14:34:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: are no signals before the waypoint but a train just beyond the waypoint is 14:34:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: stopped (like for stations) 14:34:52 * frosch123 would like to see the cheater who constanly activates and deactivates grfs to get some money 14:35:16 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: you can do it more effectivle with a basecost grf 14:35:31 * Rubidium would like to see cheaters being able to change NewGRFs while the server is running 14:37:04 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba931c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:37:20 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d8228e7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:40:56 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d8228e7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:42:06 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.54.90] has joined #openttd 14:42:28 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@92-249-141-146.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 14:42:33 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@92-249-141-146.pool.digikabel.hu] has left #openttd [] 14:44:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r21272 /trunk/src/table/station_land.h: -Change [FS#119-ish]: Draw airport fences as groundsprites on runway/taxiway tiles. This makes the usual foundation-glitch a lot less likely to happen. 14:49:37 <Eddi|zuHause> :o 14:50:08 *** pyth [~dirkjan@5352D707.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 14:52:59 <frosch123> there were no multiple-groundsprites in 2007/2008 :p 14:53:19 <xiong> I seem to be stumped on a very basic thing. I have a depot with an entry and an exit track. I cannot figure out how to signal trains in the depot to stay in the depot until the exit track is clear (up to some safe stopping point). Whatever I do, the train in the depot tries to back out onto the entry track until it hits a signal; then it reverses and repeats. 14:53:57 <frosch123> xiong: depots have implicit entry-signals resp. path signals 14:54:03 <planetmaker> I just wonder though... fences as ground sprites... they overlap the airport 14:54:10 <frosch123> so just put no additional signal in front of the depot 14:54:20 <xiong> frosch123, Um, "resp."? 14:54:22 <frosch123> planetmaker: hardly 14:54:31 <frosch123> respectively 14:54:32 <planetmaker> depends upon the fence ;-) 14:54:55 <xiong> I understand that depots have builtin entry presignals. I don't understand how path signals fit into that. 14:54:55 <frosch123> ok, actually we can revert the change for fences on the north end 14:55:43 <frosch123> xiong: fine, then ignore that part 14:55:59 <frosch123> either you use block signals, or path signals 14:56:08 <xiong> I'd rather understand that part, frosch123. 14:56:22 <frosch123> any mixures are licensed to #coop exclusively 14:57:17 <xiong> I have a path signal on the entry track -- in fact, several. I have a path signal on the exit track, well down the line, plenty of safe waiting. I have a second train stopped in that clear space, blocking the exit track. The train in the depot keeps trying the entry track. 14:58:15 <planetmaker> wtf is that: "Installation on volumes which support to distinguish cases is not supported. Please chose a volume which doesn't distinguish cases" 14:58:20 <planetmaker> bloody photoshop 14:58:46 <xiong> I put a waypoint on the exit track and ordered the train to go through the waypoint on its way out. This changed nothing; the train in the depot continues to charge the entry track, hoping for a way to get to the waypoint. 14:59:34 <xiong> Are you saying that, globally, I can never use presignals and path signals on the same map?? 14:59:58 <frosch123> no, within a junction 15:00:21 <xiong> Well, I'm not. It's all path signals, now. I tried a mix, which didn't work. 15:01:35 <xiong> Is some internal state set in the depot that makes it think it should act as a presignal? Must I demolish it and build again to get it to recognize its "path signal environment"? 15:01:49 <frosch123> no 15:02:43 *** pyth [~dirkjan@5352D707.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: pyth] 15:02:52 <xiong> Is the waypoint confusing things? 15:03:04 <Terkhen> "The vehicle names were changed in TTD to avoid trademark infringements, and OpenTTD retains the made-up names. They can, however, be changed back by setting "Original vehicle names (ENG)" for the language." <--- there was once a setting like this? 15:03:28 <planetmaker> he 15:03:42 <planetmaker> I doubt it's still present ;-) 15:03:54 <Terkhen> I have never heard of it until now 15:03:55 <xiong> No. Removing the waypoint changes nothing. 15:04:08 <Terkhen> I guess it's safe to remove this reference from the wiki :) 15:04:11 <planetmaker> but it sounds like a language selection rather than a setting 15:04:21 <planetmaker> certainly yes 15:04:43 <xiong> frosch123, I've used depots before, you know, and can't remember having this issue. What could be causing it? 15:05:39 *** mode/#openttd [+v Alberth] by ChanServ 15:05:39 *** mode/#openttd [+v Yexo] by ChanServ 15:05:39 *** mode/#openttd [+v DorpsGek] by ChanServ 15:05:39 *** mode/#openttd [+v Terkhen] by ChanServ 15:05:39 *** mode/#openttd [+v planetmaker] by ChanServ 15:05:39 *** mode/#openttd [+v SmatZ] by ChanServ 15:05:39 *** mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ 15:05:39 *** mode/#openttd [+v peter1138] by ChanServ 15:05:42 *** mode/#openttd [+o Rubidium] by ChanServ 15:06:02 *** Biolunar is now known as Guest10 15:11:39 <xiong> It doesn't even seem to matter now that I have moved the blocking train off the track. With completely clear exit track to the next path signal -- and to the next three -- the train in the depot continues to try the entry track. Yes, there is track to the exit track; that's how I got the blocking train there. 15:13:16 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:13:21 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1CA2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:13:30 <Alberth> we need a picture 15:13:45 <Alberth> (or a save game) 15:16:44 <frosch123> Terkhen: it was removed in 0.7 and converted into a (static) newgrf on bananas 15:16:52 <xiong> Well, Alberth, I'm constantly changing the situation. Do you know of any sort of act or situation that might confuse things? I could test that. I was hoping that I might have done something obviously stupid, so obvious that you could say, "Did you..." 15:16:57 <frosch123> it's still called "original vehicle names" 15:17:20 <Terkhen> frosch123: thanks, I'll edit it to make reference to that GRF 15:18:00 <Alberth> xiong: except for missing electrified track pieces or signals placed in the wrong way, not really 15:18:06 <xiong> Alberth, I'm betting that it has to do with mixing presignals and path signals, together with a long route that really needs waypoints. I notice my trains often try to head out the entry track of a station if I don't waypoint the exit. 15:18:49 <Alberth> yeah each block should be entered with one type of signals only, unless you like train crashes and so 15:18:58 <xiong> I did have a presignal on the exit track and although it's gone now, I think some state may have lingered. I've re-waypointed and released both trains; I'll set up the situation when they come around again. 15:19:32 <Alberth> but perhaps the path finder thinks it is more smart than it really is 15:19:33 <xiong> Then, I'll post a savegame, if I can reproduce the situation. 15:20:16 <xiong> Well, I understand that, given presignals or any sort of block signals, if a train finds its way blocked, it might look for another way out. Path signals, the train will wait until clear. 15:20:43 <xiong> I don't see how depots "know" whether their internal signals should act as block or path. 15:23:00 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 15:23:02 * planetmaker rather suspects layer8 error 15:23:24 <Alberth> oh, the game handles that automagically, depending on the signal types you use outside the depot 15:23:25 <Eddi|zuHause> <Terkhen> "The vehicle names were changed in TTD to avoid trademark infringements, and OpenTTD retains the made-up names. They can, however, be changed back by setting "Original vehicle names (ENG)" for the language." <--- there was once a setting like this? <-- i remember back when i installed the world editor, my brother was really upset about the "screwed up" vehicle names 15:24:05 <xiong> Um. Yes, Alberth, so I suspected. And if there's a mix? What if I build, then demolish, a signal? 15:24:21 <xiong> I now have a similar hangup at another station. I will save the game and post it. 15:25:05 <Terkhen> :) 15:25:51 <Terkhen> I'm so used to these names that they are the real names for me 15:25:57 <Alberth> isn't there a newgrf for setting the vehicle names back to their originals? 15:25:59 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-101-84.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 15:26:54 *** Guest10 is now known as Biolunar 15:26:58 <planetmaker> Alberth: [16:17] <frosch123> Terkhen: it was removed in 0.7 and converted into a (static) newgrf on bananas 15:27:15 <planetmaker> tripple highlight :-P 15:28:32 <Eddi|zuHause> you haven't counted the people who have a highlight on newgrf or bananas :p 15:28:45 <Eddi|zuHause> ... or something p 15:29:13 <planetmaker> who would that? 15:29:36 <Eddi|zuHause> how should i know? 15:30:47 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: sirkoz is your brother? 15:31:03 <Alberth> perhaps people have a highlight on the letter 'e' :p 15:31:10 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i don't think so :p 15:31:19 <Terkhen> :D 15:31:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: the letter that is part of 98% of the words? :p 15:33:07 <Eddi|zuHause> (number may vary depending on language) 15:33:48 <Eddi|zuHause> (in german it's probably higher than in english) 15:43:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r21273 /trunk/src/ (16 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Return values should start at the same line. 15:44:06 *** green-devil [~agw@0603ds4-abc.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [] 15:48:09 <AveiMil> when I define the speed on items via NML 15:48:15 <AveiMil> can I write kmh or somehing as unit? 15:48:38 <Terkhen> you can use km/h 15:48:40 <AveiMil> km/h ya 15:48:56 <AveiMil> just sceptical about the "/" 15:50:01 <AveiMil> dosen't quite work though 15:50:02 <AveiMil> speed: 30 km/h ; 15:50:07 <AveiMil> that gives me in-game speed fo 28 15:50:13 <AveiMil> guess it's a rounding problem 15:50:26 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.54.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:51:23 <frosch123> the speedunits have higher granularity 15:51:30 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.54.90] has joined #openttd 15:51:31 <Terkhen> IIRC there is an open issue in the NML tracker about that 15:53:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r21274 /trunk/src/table/station_land.h: -Change: Increase the bounding box size of hangars in the hope it fixes more glitches than it causes. 15:54:01 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, but it's likely still a rounding issue, because if the granularity is 1.6km/h, then the values should be 32, 30.4, 28.8 15:54:20 <Eddi|zuHause> so it should rather be rounded to 30.4 15:54:25 <Eddi|zuHause> than 28.8 15:55:15 <Terkhen> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/1629 15:56:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r21275 /trunk/src/table/station_land.h: -Fix (r21272): Draw NW+SW fences in the correct order. 15:57:26 <Eddi|zuHause> the last time the raw value -> km/h conversion in openttd was changed, gave a huge outcry among grf authors and purists 15:58:18 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba931c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:58:46 *** murr4y [~murray@166.84-48-64.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:59:53 <Eddi|zuHause> but the topic talks about road vehicles, which have different granularity afaik 16:00:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i was thinking trains 16:01:40 <frosch123> rv can choose between 0.5 and 2 km/h granularity 16:01:52 <frosch123> iirc 16:02:02 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 16:03:22 <xiong> Okay, well, Alberth, I cannot now reproduce the situation. The thing at the other station was just a matter of the pathfinder getting confused; waypointing fixed it. When the trains came around again, I set up the same situation -- one train blocking the exit track from the depot but a few tiles down -- and the other train is sitting in the depot, waiting to leave, properly. 16:04:04 <xiong> Even putting the waypoint before the first signal on the exit track did not screw it up. I thought that might be an issue but it's just not. 16:04:10 <Eddi|zuHause> it always annoys me that so many vehicles end up having 59,69,99 etc. as max speed, instead of 60,70,100 16:04:27 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a very short period when it was like that... 16:04:35 <Eddi|zuHause> but that change got reverted 16:05:08 <xiong> I infer that some sort of state was retained when I deleted the exit presignal. That state was eventually cleared by the time the trains had run around the layout awhile. 16:05:42 <AveiMil> This in NML dosent appear to do anything: PR_BUILD_CANAL 16:05:55 <AveiMil> Only changing PR_CLEAR_WATER changes the cost it seems. 16:06:12 <Eddi|zuHause> AveiMil: nightly or stable openttd? 16:06:18 <xiong> If the depot doesn't remember what signals it saw "before", then I have to think it is the train; although this was *not* fixed when the train returned to the depot. Perhaps the stopped train forced the state retention. 16:06:40 <AveiMil> 1.0.5 16:06:42 <AveiMil> 4 16:06:44 <AveiMil> stable 16:06:49 <Terkhen> AveiMil: PR_BUILD_CANAL is only available in nightlies with a revision greater than r19720 16:06:55 <Eddi|zuHause> AveiMil: It might be that this was introduced fairly recently, so it's not in the stable, only in the nightly 16:07:03 <AveiMil> ah I see 16:07:03 <Terkhen> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=BaseCosts <--- you can check the exact revisions here 16:07:11 <xiong> If I'm going to work on reproducing the... weirdness, then I'm going to start with a clean map and try to do only that thing. Not today. Thanks for your help. 16:08:07 *** lewymati [~lewymati@dynamic-62-87-129-52.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has quit [] 16:09:08 <AveiMil> PR_BUILD_FOUNDATION, what does that do? what foundation? 16:09:34 *** murr4y [~murray@166.84-48-64.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 16:09:50 <Eddi|zuHause> AveiMil: it was introduced to separate building on slopes from the terraforming base cost 16:10:06 <planetmaker> foundations of paradise 16:10:34 <AveiMil> ah 16:10:56 <AveiMil> r18283, how do I know if the table 1.0.4 is newer or older than taht? 16:11:08 <AveiMil> *stable 16:11:59 <planetmaker> http://www.amazon.com/Fountains-Paradise-Arthur-C-Clarke/dp/0446677949 16:11:59 <Eddi|zuHause> @commit 19142 16:11:59 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Commit by rubidium :: r19142 branches/1.0/ (2010-02-15 23:59:46 UTC) 16:12:00 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: [1.0] -Branch: the 1.0 series 16:12:05 <Terkhen> checking the revision log 16:12:26 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 16:18:46 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:19:51 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba931c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:23:45 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:24:46 *** hermitek [~hermitek@ip-89-102-35-139.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:32:01 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.104.150] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:35:20 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.104.150] has joined #openttd 16:42:11 <AveiMil> When I do this in NML: 16:42:12 <AveiMil> item(FEAT_INDUSTRIES, FruitPlantation) { property { substitute: INDUSTRYTYPE_FRUIT_PLANTATION; override: INDUSTRYTYPE_FRUIT_PLANTATION; prod_multiplier_1: 13; } } 16:42:28 <AveiMil> The Fruit Plantation shows up on the map overview in Temperate climate 16:42:31 <AveiMil> how do I fix that? 16:43:15 <AveiMil> It does not show up on the actual map, just it's listed on the overview 16:44:28 <Terkhen> AveiMil: I think that you need to specify its ID too at item 16:44:52 <Terkhen> does it appear twice in subtropical? 16:44:58 <AveiMil> let me check 16:45:30 <AveiMil> nope, just the once 16:45:48 <AveiMil> but the other ones I cahnged, like Iron Ore Mine also shows in tropical 16:45:59 <Terkhen> item(FEAT_INDUSTRIES, FruitPlantation, INDUSTRYTYPE_FRUIT_PLANTATION) <--- then I'm probably not right, but try this change to be sure 16:46:22 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.54.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:46:27 <AveiMil> ok 16:46:44 <AveiMil> nmlc: "input", line 427: Unrecognized identifier 'INDUSTRYTYPE_FRUIT_PLANTATION' 16:46:44 <AveiMil> encountered 16:46:51 <AveiMil> it does not like taht 16:48:03 <AveiMil> I tried this: item(FEAT_INDUSTRIES, FruitPlantation, 19) { property { substitute: INDUSTRYTYPE_FRUIT_PLANTATION; override: INDUSTRYTYPE_FRUIT_PLANTATION; prod_multiplier_1: 13; } } 16:48:08 <AveiMil> compiles fine but dosent make a difference 16:48:15 <AveiMil> I got the 19 from http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=IndustryDefaultProps 16:48:22 <Terkhen> yes, I was going to suggest that 16:48:23 <AveiMil> and I assume 13h is hex, which is 19 16:48:37 <Terkhen> no idea of what might be happening then, sorry 16:48:54 <AveiMil> alright thanks 16:50:54 *** pyth [~dirkjan@5352D707.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:52:40 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-66.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 16:55:21 <AveiMil> need one of the FIRS developers :) 16:56:03 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC3088.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:59:31 <Hirundo> AveiMil: What do you intend to do? 17:00:36 <AveiMil> Fix a "bug". 17:00:36 *** Arie- [~Arie@s5592da6d.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:00:45 <AveiMil> item(FEAT_INDUSTRIES, FruitPlantation) { property { substitute: INDUSTRYTYPE_FRUIT_PLANTATION; override: INDUSTRYTYPE_FRUIT_PLANTATION; prod_multiplier_1: 13; } } 17:00:48 <AveiMil> I've done that via NML 17:01:00 <AveiMil> And in the game, when you go to the map of the world and list industries in tempareate climate 17:01:31 <AveiMil> it shows fruit plantation there 17:01:57 <AveiMil> it never generates any fruit plantations in temperate climate, but it shows on the overview list 17:02:06 <AveiMil> same applies for Iron ore Mines when in tropical climate for instance 17:02:51 *** perk111 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 17:04:11 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-75-247.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 17:04:46 <AveiMil> Hirundo, do you know anything about that? 17:06:05 <Hirundo> Possibly 17:06:27 <AveiMil> For example you can just goto Bananas and download AveiMil's PIGM 0.3 17:06:28 <Hirundo> But I can't really help you unless you tell me what you want to achieve, instead of what your current obstacle is 17:06:29 <AveiMil> it has the problem 17:06:39 <AveiMil> oh, guess I'm unclear 17:07:04 <AveiMil> I don't want fruit plantations to show up in the map of the world industry overview when playing in the temperate climate 17:08:06 <AveiMil> *afk for a bit 17:08:30 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:08:32 <Hirundo> Fruit plantations never show up in the temperate climate for me, you shouln't need a grf for that 17:08:57 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-75-247.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:10:18 <Hirundo> AveiMil: have you tried something like " if (climate == CLIMATE_TROPIC) { $code }" 17:11:04 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.54.90] has joined #openttd 17:11:13 <AveiMil> Hirundo, no, it only shows up there with my NewGRF 17:11:23 <AveiMil> ok, I will try something like that 17:15:57 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.54.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:21:40 *** Samu [Samu@246.123.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 17:23:37 <Samu> hi 17:27:12 <Samu> finger 17:27:20 <Samu> translator 17:27:26 <planetmaker> ... 17:27:31 <Terkhen> :D 17:27:40 <Samu> what 17:27:57 <Terkhen> *.openttd.org 17:28:16 <AveiMil> Hirundo, are the other properties CLIMATE_TEMPERATE and CLIMATE_ARCTIC? 17:28:22 <__ln___> Samu: please keep your phantasies to yourself 17:29:09 <Hirundo> AveiMil: Yes, you can refer to the documentation for that 17:29:24 <AveiMil> couldnt find it 17:29:35 <AveiMil> there's no easy way to search for details like taht :( 17:29:40 <AveiMil> (or none that I know abut) 17:29:44 <Hirundo> grep ? 17:31:32 <Hirundo> In this case, you might want to search for the global variable 'climate' 17:32:25 <AveiMil> where would you search? 17:38:56 <Alberth> in the table of contents? 17:39:45 <Alberth> or if you have the NML docs, grep all files 17:40:52 <AveiMil> what is grep 17:43:00 <AveiMil> the doc's are not included in the NML download I got 17:44:49 <Alberth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/show/docs is the directory, but pulling a clone with mercurial is much easier 17:45:09 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 17:45:37 <Alberth> grep searches all lines of the given files, and outputs all lines that contain a given text 17:45:56 <Alberth> it is very good for a first hint of where to look more closely 17:46:24 <Alberth> Windows used to call it 'search' iirc 17:46:36 <Alberth> or 'find files' or so 17:50:05 <AveiMil> never heard about grep before but I get it 17:50:39 *** Arie- [~Arie@s5592da6d.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:51:02 <AveiMil> nmlc: "input", line 421: Syntax error, unexpected token "{" 17:51:04 <AveiMil> woot? 17:51:16 <AveiMil> line 421 If (climate == CLIMATE_TEMPERATE) { 17:51:36 <AveiMil> doh, if is case sensetive 17:52:09 <Alberth> :) 17:58:09 <glx> like in any sane language ;) 17:58:52 <planetmaker> you'll like NML then ;-) 17:59:58 <AveiMil> I like insanity 18:02:03 <Samu> why does no one join my game? Is it because I have placed AIs? 18:02:35 <Terkhen> Samu: most servers are empty, there are way more servers than players 18:03:02 <Samu> :( 18:03:28 <Samu> but I cheated the server listing 18:03:36 <Terkhen> really? how? 18:03:36 <Samu> it should appear on the top of the list 18:03:44 <planetmaker> congratulations 18:04:21 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:04:32 <Terkhen> since most servers avid of players tend to do that, personally I would ignore all of the first servers just because of that 18:05:22 <planetmaker> :-) 18:05:37 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe servers shouldn't be sorted by name at all 18:05:39 <Samu> I added spaces 18:06:06 <Eddi|zuHause> sort by IP, players and version 18:06:07 <Zuu> Sort them by uptime instead? 18:06:46 <Zuu> longest up-time first? (after first having removed old OpenTTD versions) 18:07:34 <Zuu> hmm, still probably not good as there might be some start-and-forget servers that end up at the top. 18:08:29 <Eddi|zuHause> ip is a fairly unbiast, difficult to influence and fairly stable criterium 18:08:43 <Eddi|zuHause> s/st/sed/ 18:08:53 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:09:16 <b_jonas> I'm ending the current game and starting a new one, so please recommend me newgrfs I should try 18:09:50 <Eddi|zuHause> plus, that makes it slightly more likely that servers from the same coutry are grouped/clustered together 18:09:57 <Zuu> b_jonas: Which ones did you already have? 18:10:00 <b_jonas> I'd like fun and not too restrictive ones 18:10:15 <b_jonas> Zuu: I was playing vanilla with only the base newgrf 18:10:19 <Zuu> Pikas industries? 18:10:29 <b_jonas> as I'm starting a new game, I can choose anything 18:10:39 <Zuu> They have some more industries but are not really complicated. 18:11:30 <Samu> play toyland 18:11:37 <b_jonas> I hate toyland 18:11:52 <b_jonas> what's this pikas industries? is there a link? 18:11:55 <Samu> ok, play arctic with original generator 18:12:26 <planetmaker> take the whole lot of Japanese NewGRFs 18:12:41 <b_jonas> all of japanese? 18:13:31 <planetmaker> And if you play in arctic, throw in the SwedishRails as well. 18:13:35 <Zuu> hmm, can't find pikkas industries on bananas. IIRC they were abbrivated as PBI. 18:14:06 <Zuu> You can probably find them in #openttdcoop GRF pack if they are not on bananas. 18:14:12 <Zuu> Or use the grf crawler. 18:14:42 <planetmaker> manual install is too much hassle ;-) 18:14:51 <planetmaker> what there is not on bananas does not exist :-P 18:15:04 <b_jonas> planetmaker: I can bear with manual install 18:15:14 <planetmaker> it's like everywhere on the internet:if it's not on google, it doesn't exist 18:15:37 <planetmaker> b_jonas: I also don't agree with PBI being the best possible extension :-) 18:15:43 <planetmaker> I rather recommend FIRS ;-) 18:15:46 <Zuu> "Pikka's Basic Industries v1.5" is what it is called in my NewGRF window and seeing from the path it is inded in the #openttdcoop grf pack. 18:15:49 <planetmaker> less restrictions, more fun 18:16:06 <Samu> I prefer original 18:16:15 <Zuu> Isn't PBI more like originals than FIRS? 18:16:18 <Terkhen> if you want to use a industry NewGRF, you will need vehicle GRFs to handle the new cargos 18:16:33 <planetmaker> Zuu: maybe from the type of industries. But not from their behaviour. 18:16:37 <planetmaker> Stockpiling sucks IMHO 18:16:41 <Zuu> Isn't it ECS > FIRS > PBI when it comes to industries. 18:16:51 <Zuu> restrictions* 18:16:56 <planetmaker> no 18:17:01 <planetmaker> FIRS has basically no restrictions 18:17:09 <Terkhen> FIRS has supplies 18:17:18 <planetmaker> yes, but it's not really a restriction 18:17:35 <planetmaker> it's just a limit on the growth ;-) 18:18:10 <Zuu> IIRC PBI has only just a few extra industries and is thus more like 1.5 the old industries. 18:18:48 <Zuu> Compared to FIRS which is nice if you have an AI that takes care of finding out which industries that are compatible with which ones and uses the right cargo types. :-) 18:18:55 <planetmaker> the main problem for me with PBI is that e.g. the steel mill doesn't accept coal from more than three trains at once. And you need to ship an appropriate amount of ore there, too 18:19:00 <planetmaker> or it won't do a thing 18:19:39 <Alberth> Zuu: did I make the industry link window for nothing? :( 18:19:48 <b_jonas> planetmaker: sure, it should exist on the internet, and there should be at least some description of what the grf does, or I won't know what to choose. but whether it's on bananas or downloaded and installed easily from some website I don't care 18:19:51 * planetmaker hugs Alberth 18:20:03 <Zuu> Alberth: Not for nothing, it is very nice and does helps. 18:20:32 <planetmaker> With that help FIRS is much easier 18:20:35 <planetmaker> it just has more cargos 18:20:54 <Zuu> But compared to the original industries which I know by heart, FIRS is a lot more having to lookup chains etc. 18:21:20 <Rubidium> is "nothing" Fred's sibling? 18:21:21 <Alberth> you didn't know the default industries either the first time :) 18:21:45 <Zuu> No, but that was like 10 years ago and is a forgotten moment :-) 18:22:06 <Alberth> nothing is the brother of someone, most likely 18:22:34 *** Arie- [~Arie@s5592da6d.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:22:52 <b_jonas> also, what trams? 18:22:59 <Zuu> Honestly I really like the industry graph - good job there Alberth! - It is just that I seldome get aronud to play the game myself anymore. 18:23:13 <planetmaker> If you use Japanese... use the Hiroshima 18:23:22 <Samu> why did you add trams to the game? 18:23:39 <b_jonas> Samu: because they were in ttd only not fully working 18:24:09 <Samu> no way 18:24:10 <Alberth> Zuu: yeah that happens after some time 18:24:43 <Samu> what about giant airports, why add them? 18:25:07 <Zuu> Because the "large" airport is fairly limited :-) 18:25:11 <planetmaker> Samu: why play at all? 18:25:37 <Samu> air is imbalanced 18:25:40 <Alberth> b_jonas: they were added in 0.6 18:25:50 <Samu> yet you add larger airports 18:26:09 <planetmaker> we just want to annoy you 18:26:12 <b_jonas> Alberth: I meant what tram grf to use 18:26:17 <Zuu> Samu: You can turn them off if you don't like them. 18:26:18 <planetmaker> or maybe many people wanted larger airports 18:26:35 <b_jonas> either air's not unbalanced or I'm playing air wrong 18:26:43 <Zuu> Just set the station spread = the size of the largest airport you want to allow. 18:26:54 <Samu> ah... :( 18:26:56 <b_jonas> I keep getting much more profit from trains than from airports 18:26:58 <Terkhen> Samu: why do you want to play OpenTTD? play TTD instead 18:27:01 <planetmaker> +1 tile, Zuu :-) 18:27:14 <Zuu> Why +1? 18:27:16 <Samu> OpenTTD has multiplayer 18:27:28 <Samu> TTD doesn't 18:27:52 <Samu> that's my main reason 18:28:00 <Rubidium> TTD has multiplayer 18:28:06 <Rubidium> TTD has nothing that resembles trams 18:28:40 <Alberth> b_jonas: find 2 big towns, 256+ tiles apart, put airports as close to the center as possible, and push as many aircraft as you can without getting full holding queues in the air 18:29:02 <Alberth> each aircraft as many passengers as possible 18:29:09 <Terkhen> I remember trying to make multiplayer work in TTD without success 18:29:09 <planetmaker> Alberth: even better, if you abuse the station spread and split stations 18:29:16 <Samu> a game without online play these days is a dead game 18:29:23 <b_jonas> Alberth: on the other hand, large airports do help in collecting passengers for my trains 18:29:31 <Terkhen> the fact that I had no idea of what I was doing back then probably had much to do with my failure 18:30:01 <planetmaker> b_jonas: that's not a good argument for the airports. Just add a few disjoint station tiles 18:30:08 <Alberth> b_jonas: you can then also "abuse the station spread and split stations" :) 18:30:40 <Alberth> Samu: from marketing perspective sure, luckily we don't care about market share 18:30:43 <Zuu> And allow for town buildings <inside> your station. 18:31:01 <Terkhen> I think he meant TTD 18:31:06 <b_jonas> planetmaker: large airports have a larger catchment area so they collect passengers from farther from the station 18:31:18 <planetmaker> b_jonas: but that doesn't matter. 18:31:28 <b_jonas> why? 18:31:33 <Zuu> You can upgrade your catchment with a heliport. 18:31:34 <planetmaker> Just add two further station tiles to catch the same area 18:31:49 <planetmaker> That's a nice idea, Zuu :-) 18:31:53 <b_jonas> okay, I'll try that 18:32:28 <Samu> how do stop those cheaters, Alber 18:32:29 <Zuu> A dock will also work if there is water close enough. 18:33:10 <Samu> yesterday some guy built a piece of train station to enlarge his airport catchment area 18:33:20 <Samu> but the station wasn't even close to the airport 18:33:31 <Samu> the setting had it disabled, why didn't it work 18:33:38 <Zuu> You can turn of irregular stations. 18:33:51 <Zuu> You can set a lower station spread. 18:33:59 <Alberth> yep, you get that behaviour when you add a goal for winning 18:34:05 <Terkhen> he probably did a station walk 18:34:23 <b_jonas> and... I think I need some airports too 18:34:42 <planetmaker> ctrl+click when building stations for the win :-) 18:34:50 <Samu> also it's funny these cheaters say it's a feature 18:34:55 <AveiMil> PIGM 0.4 is out! -> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=51112&p=912866#p912866 18:35:26 <Samu> they find all sort of reasons to make their lameness sound fair 18:35:26 <AveiMil> distant_join_stations = false helps prevent 'cheating' 18:35:39 <planetmaker> Samu: if it's allowed, it's not cheating 18:35:51 <planetmaker> don't do it, if you don't like it 18:35:53 <AveiMil> planetmaker, there's a lot of mechanic abuse you can do 18:35:56 <AveiMil> that's a form of cheating 18:35:56 <AveiMil> :( 18:36:06 <AveiMil> the game clearly never intended you to station walk 18:36:10 <planetmaker> Well, you can abuse some game mechanics 18:36:15 <AveiMil> and deliver cargo with 2 trucks 1 tile 18:36:18 <AveiMil> when the distance is 20 tiles 18:36:24 <Alberth> so make a rule against it, and kick/ban people that do it anyway 18:36:29 <planetmaker> ^ 18:36:34 <AveiMil> that's what I do 18:36:39 <AveiMil> but it requires an admin 18:36:45 <planetmaker> of course 18:36:46 <AveiMil> would be good to find solutions to prevent it 18:36:54 <planetmaker> or diable distant join in the first place 18:37:10 <AveiMil> that helps 18:37:11 <planetmaker> make a small station spread like 12 and most of those issues are gone 18:37:17 <Alberth> AveiMil: doesn't matter, then they find some other gap 18:37:31 <b_jonas> can you recommend me airport grf too? 18:37:32 <Zuu> If you want to go to the extereme you can turn off irregular stations. :-) 18:37:33 <AveiMil> then you fix that gap as well :) 18:37:53 <Alberth> AveiMil: it is a myth to have a good openttd server without an admin 18:38:14 <Zuu> b_jonas: For nightlies/stable there are no grfs with new airports. 18:38:37 <Zuu> Only aircrafts and fake airport tiles. 18:39:53 <planetmaker> I can recommend airportsplus / climate dependent airports / OpenGFX+Airports. Dunno how it's called on bananas ;-) 18:40:02 <AveiMil> that's not a good argument for not trying to find ways to disable game mechanic abuse 18:40:02 <planetmaker> it makes at least for better looks 18:40:10 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 18:40:15 <AveiMil> not saying it's easy or even doable in some cases for OpenTTD 18:40:36 <planetmaker> AveiMil: as you can limit that abuse by proper settings, I see no reason for any action 18:40:55 <b_jonas> Zuu: thanks 18:41:02 <AveiMil> yeah and for newcomers setting up a game, they won't know about it 18:41:09 <AveiMil> because there's an ocean of settings 18:41:20 <planetmaker> running a server is not for newcomers 18:41:22 <AveiMil> so might get frustrated and just leave 18:41:26 <Zuu> Eg. why do one need a larger station than 12x12 if you are not supposed to use dis joints over any longer distances? 18:41:32 <AveiMil> I ran a server for my 2nd game session 18:41:33 <AveiMil> hah 18:41:37 <planetmaker> Playing a game on your own: limit yourself to what you seem fit. No-one should complain there 18:42:08 <AveiMil> ya ya 18:42:32 <planetmaker> honestly: yes. Or why does it need changing? 18:42:58 <planetmaker> You can limit it for multiplayer. And playing on your own you can even limit yourself to what you seem fit. Where's the issue? 18:43:01 <AveiMil> well number one problem imho, is too many settings. like original and realistic train accel as an example. there's no need for both of those, come up with reasoned arguments for why one is superior to the other and elminate the other from the game 18:43:09 <planetmaker> Trying to force your 'proper' way on others? 18:43:24 <planetmaker> That fails on the account that everyone has a different view of what is 'proper' 18:43:51 <AveiMil> but I'm sure you can get a majority agreement 18:43:59 <planetmaker> I'm sure one cannot 18:44:10 <AveiMil> then someone just make a freaking decision 18:44:20 <Samu> i just want a balanced cheat free game 18:44:31 <Alberth> also, we want to make EVERYBODY happy, not just some subset. 18:44:32 <planetmaker> well. if there's a A or B decision a majority will agree to *something*. Which might as well be 'leave everything as is' 18:44:42 <Terkhen> heh 18:44:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r21276 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files): (log message trimmed) 18:44:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:44:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 8 changes by marek995 18:44:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_ 18:44:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 2 changes by planetmaker 18:44:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: italian - 3 changes by lorenzodv 18:44:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: russian - 2 changes by Lone_Wolf 18:44:54 <AveiMil> Plenty won't be happy with a sea of settings :) 18:45:32 <Zuu> Yet we get requests to add a GUI for even more settings. 18:45:38 <Alberth> why, defaults are useful, and then it is just a matter of reading if you like experimenting 18:46:31 <Terkhen> AveiMil: I suggest that you make a list of settings that are not useful in your opinion and promote a discussion at the forums about which ones could be removed or could have their default values changed 18:46:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21277 /trunk/src/lang/slovenian.txt: -Fix: failure of WT3 to properly validate some string... 18:47:10 * planetmaker agrees with Terkhen 18:47:14 <b_jonas> I'll try Japanese then 18:47:41 <AveiMil> I'm just a fan of having a rigdig core settings that everyone uses, personally I don't care about half the settings if they are on or off or what have you but oh well. when I think about it maybe TTD is not a game like that 18:47:46 <planetmaker> b_jonas: for added fun add also industria stations renewal and maybe one or another different station newgrf 18:48:05 <Terkhen> if you don't care about them, why do you bother on modifying them on the first place? 18:48:08 <planetmaker> I'm just a fan of having a rigdig core settings that everyone uses, <-- aha. so you want everyone to use the same. 18:48:21 <AveiMil> yeah :) 18:48:27 <Samu> yes 18:48:28 <planetmaker> sorry mate. Won't happen. 18:48:35 <AveiMil> having everyone use the same settings means there's a better frame of reference 18:48:39 <b_jonas> okay, I'll try that 18:48:42 <AveiMil> and you can compare games 18:48:51 <planetmaker> what do you need that for? 18:49:10 <AveiMil> I guess that's lost of people who just want to play in a sandbox and build stuff 18:49:12 <AveiMil> heh 18:49:16 <AveiMil> afk dinner 18:49:21 <Terkhen> AveiMil: that's what default settings are for 18:49:24 <planetmaker> many people do exactly that, yes 18:49:30 * planetmaker is one of them 18:49:31 <fjb> To feel good if others have difficulty to play with his favorite settinhg. 18:49:35 <b_jonas> me too 18:49:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.167.78] has joined #openttd 18:50:00 <Samu> easy/medium/hard as presets 18:50:08 <Terkhen> Samu: that's already done 18:50:11 <Samu> then work from then on 18:50:14 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1CA2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:50:15 * planetmaker also usually abuses airplanes to have infinitely enough money within very short time 18:50:34 <Terkhen> you can modify the difficulty settings 18:50:40 <Terkhen> the advanced settings are called advanced for a reason 18:50:45 * planetmaker still ponders to remove thedifficulty settings, though ;-) 18:50:52 <fjb> Abusing airplanes becomes harder with cargodist. 18:50:58 <planetmaker> they're pointless 18:51:04 <Terkhen> yeah, having three different windows for settings is pointless 18:51:14 <planetmaker> fjb: not, if the passengers have no other choice 18:51:17 <b_jonas> with these grfs, what year should I start? 18:51:27 <planetmaker> I'd start the usual time, 1950 18:51:27 <Wolf01> a "sandbox" difficulty would be cool, no use of money, no local authority, station spread set to max, all advanced settings enabled and so on 18:52:02 <planetmaker> Wolf01: what would 'enabled' mean for choice of acceleration model? 18:52:24 <planetmaker> or choice of airport noise influence? 18:53:15 <Wolf01> since you don't really need to make money in a sandbox you can enable the original or the "best looking" one (the one which doesn't slow down on cliffs) 18:53:40 <Wolf01> airport noise should be disabled since it's a limitation for normal games and not for a sandbox 18:53:55 <Terkhen> you can also set realistic acceleration with slope steepness 0 18:54:00 <Samu> no idea what a sandbox is... 18:54:11 <frosch123> __ln___: https://secure.openttd.org/bugs/task/4249/getfile/6877/crash.png <- are there any vehicle related news in the news history? 18:54:11 <Wolf01> never played rollercoaster tycoon? 18:54:17 <Samu> nope 18:54:44 <Wolf01> a sandbox is a place where you can do whatever you want without worring about money/limitations 18:55:05 <b_jonas> or consequences 18:55:05 <frosch123> oh, "juna" seems to mean train 18:55:32 <b_jonas> arctic 18:56:33 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.176.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:56:56 <Wolf01> and another cool thing might be "fixed year" and all engines/buildings already unlocked, so you don't need to wait if you want to try a 1920 steamer aside of a 240 maglev 18:57:07 <Wolf01> *2040 18:57:19 <Terkhen> you can start at 2050 with vehicles never expire on 18:58:27 <Wolf01> does it keep obsolete vehicles or only the ones available on 2050? 18:59:33 <Wolf01> 'cause I remember I needed to start at 1900 then cheat the date to have all the vehicles, I don't know if this has been changed 18:59:36 <planetmaker> Wolf01: 'fixed year' is easy: vehicles never expire and year 3000 19:00:00 <Terkhen> if you have "vehicles never expire" on, all of them 19:00:04 <planetmaker> that has been working for as long as I'm around, so over 3 years 19:01:04 * Alberth never used tried that setting so far :) 19:01:18 <Alberth> s/used /used\// 19:02:48 <Wolf01> I usually play with it enabled 19:03:06 <Alberth> I never even reach 2000 :) 19:03:27 <Wolf01> I reach it too quickly instead 19:03:45 <Terkhen> my games tend to be too short, after 20 or 30 years I'm already bored of them 19:04:24 <Alberth> yeah, in 30 years you have connected all the interesting industries 19:04:25 <Wolf01> I usually take 20-30 years to build the main route :P 19:04:25 <planetmaker> Alberth: you always play with expiring vehicles? 19:04:51 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:04:57 <planetmaker> I find that too... bothersome. The time line is too fast for me 19:05:05 <planetmaker> So I have to make my own and not upgrade immediately 19:05:07 <Wolf01> then I need to upgrade it to electric and autoreplace all trains 19:05:26 <b_jonas> Alberth: if you find that, you can play a larger map 19:05:56 <Wolf01> yeah, 100 years are way boring in a 64x64 map ;) 19:06:06 <planetmaker> Time surely flies, especially as I like to also watch things moving after I have built something. And then easily a few ingame years pass by while I just look at things and maybe ponder where to extend and how to improve the network 19:06:38 <Alberth> I was thinking to play FIRS on 64x64 with trucks only. With small delivery bug fixed, that becomes feasible :) 19:06:48 <Samu> breakdowns, inflation and hard makes the game more appealing to me 19:07:05 <fjb> Yes. it is fun to just look. I Save the game then and reload it after I got bored just looking. 19:07:06 <Alberth> actually turning inflation off is harder 19:07:07 <planetmaker> I tried FIRS on 256^2 in my last game. It was a fail as many industry chains were broken due to missing industries 19:07:27 <planetmaker> well... fail is too hard. But I found it sad :-) 19:07:27 <Samu> how's it harder? 19:07:38 <b_jonas> flb: inflation actually makes the game easier because you build and buy the trains cheap and eary much higher cargo income later 19:07:48 <Terkhen> Alberth: I had many nice truck games with FIRS in small maps, but it was many months ago 19:07:58 <planetmaker> :-) 19:08:20 * planetmaker still likes to build train networks :-) 19:08:24 <Samu> well, tell that to AI makers 19:08:27 <Terkhen> I'll probably have another soon, as I need to test opengfx+ road vehicles 19:08:32 <Samu> nearly all AIs go bankrupt with inflation on 19:08:37 <Wolf01> I usually play with breakdowns and inflation enabled, but when I need to try new things I have my custom config which allows me to do anything, and the first thing I do as soon as the game starts is to cheat some money (1 click is enough for the tries) in my bank balance 19:08:43 <fjb> Inflation hauts you after 200 years. 19:08:52 <planetmaker> oh, breakdowns... quite annoying ;-) 19:08:58 <planetmaker> good for scenario quests, though 19:09:08 * Alberth plays with breakdowns and servicing 19:09:24 <Terkhen> I never got the hang of building real train networks; I always end up building a different small network for each cargo 19:09:25 <planetmaker> servicing is another thing. That I don't care :-) 19:09:27 <Wolf01> I manually set the servicing in the vehicles schedule 19:09:39 <fjb> Without breakdowns it gets boring and you tend to never upgrade vehicles. 19:09:44 <Samu> wow, you guys cheat, that's funny... it's as if you don't know how the game you make really works 19:09:53 * fjb plays with reduced breakdowns. 19:10:16 <planetmaker> Samu: it's not cheating on any account 19:10:22 <planetmaker> it's just not _your_ playing style 19:10:53 <Wolf01> dinner time 19:10:58 <planetmaker> but you may understand now why there can never be a commonly agreed set of default settings 19:10:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i hate breakdowns 19:11:24 <fjb> Autoupgrade with pattern matching would be great. And autoupdating only engines with are at the end of their life. 19:11:27 <Samu> wolf says 19:11:28 <planetmaker> and why it is near-impossible to find concensus also on abolishing this or that setting 19:11:29 *** Arie- [~Arie@s5592da6d.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:11:30 <Alberth> Terkhen: me too :) 19:11:35 <Samu> he cheats for some money 19:11:41 <Samu> what does he mean? 19:11:43 <Terkhen> planetmaker: it's easy; everyone who does not like to play with my style is a cheater 19:11:51 <planetmaker> :-D 19:12:04 <Terkhen> Samu: press CTRL+ALT+C in a single player game 19:12:35 <Terkhen> handy when you want to try stuff 19:12:52 <fjb> Or when you want to help a poor ai. 19:12:55 <Samu> the wrong way to balance a game 19:12:57 <b_jonas> "smooth economy" means how the production of primary industries change, right? 19:13:11 <Samu> is it a cheat? 19:13:21 <planetmaker> yes. With smooth economy the changes are more frequent but smaller 19:13:25 <Alberth> Samu: different people like different parts of the game, they change the game so it fits their ideas as good as possible 19:13:28 <b_jonas> thanks 19:13:31 <planetmaker> around 5% or so instead of 50% 19:13:35 <b_jonas> I'll turn that off 19:13:40 <b_jonas> I prefer larger changes 19:13:43 <planetmaker> smooth economy is nice :-) 19:14:00 <Alberth> you just too much news :) 19:14:00 <b_jonas> the name is confusing 19:14:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: based on recent poll results, we can remove original acceleration model :p 19:14:05 <Alberth> +get 19:14:08 <Samu> I just hate to be spammed with news about industry changes, so I tend to turn it off, besides TTD didn't have it 19:14:08 <Terkhen> I never tested how is the game with that on 19:14:29 <b_jonas> I mean, there's also the global economy that changes prices 19:14:39 <b_jonas> in the difficulty settings 19:14:44 <planetmaker> not really confusing... 'smooth economy' exactly tells what it does ;-) 19:15:10 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but it doesn't tell that it won't work with any modern industry set ;) 19:15:19 <planetmaker> he ;-) 19:16:32 <Samu> my poll results are very aggravating 19:16:49 <Samu> only 1 guy besides me voted original 19:17:03 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 19:17:03 <frosch123> imo we have far too many languages to select from. we should start a poll about the most used ones 19:17:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: it just tells you your idea what people might want may be totally off... 19:17:15 <Terkhen> Samu: it explains why settings are needed 19:17:29 <Terkhen> we could remove the original acceleration and only a few people would care 19:17:39 <Terkhen> but, in order to give more options, we make it a setting instead 19:17:45 <Rubidium> but SirkoZ would care... 19:18:11 <Samu> my opinion, it makes the game easy 19:18:32 <Eddi|zuHause> it does not. 19:18:32 <Samu> but whatever, it doesn't count 19:18:37 <frosch123> Rubidium: are you sure? doesn't vehicle smoke work better with realistic acceleration? 19:18:52 <Rubidium> no clue 19:19:10 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i remember my diesel engines smoked far more in TTO than they do in OpenTTD 19:19:14 * Terkhen starts testing 19:19:17 <Samu> realistic acceleration on a mountanious map makes it much more easier than original acceleration 19:19:30 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: isn't there even some setting for that :p 19:19:30 <Samu> trAIns 19:19:35 <Samu> survive with realistic 19:19:37 <Samu> dies with original 19:19:52 <Samu> same with denver & rio grande 19:19:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: but you tested with stable, not with nightly? 19:20:07 <Samu> tested with 1.0.4 19:20:18 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's what i meant. 19:20:37 <Hirundo> diesel smoke is only at < 0,5*max speed ('original' setting) and trains spend longer at low speeds with original acceleration, so it's possible that there's more smoke then 19:20:43 <Terkhen> @commit 21106 19:20:44 <DorpsGek> Terkhen: Commit by michi_cc :: r21106 /trunk/src (4 files) (2010-11-07 13:35:07 UTC) 19:20:45 <DorpsGek> Terkhen: -Change: Tuned realistic acceleration to be a bit more realistic in order to make acceleration "slower", which highlights the differences between vehicle types more. 19:20:57 <Samu> cool 19:21:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: please run the same test on a recent nightly 19:21:04 <Samu> thanks for the nerf 19:21:22 <Terkhen> :D 19:22:15 <Samu> if nearly no one joins my game on 1.0.4, I doubt anyone would join a night version 19:22:18 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 19:22:20 <Samu> but ok 19:22:20 <__ln___> Eddi|zuHause: a nightly must be several megabytes in size 19:22:40 <Terkhen> about 4 MB 19:23:44 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln___: i can't help it if people are on 28.8 modem with 19¢/min... 19:23:45 <planetmaker> oh no...! 19:26:54 *** perk111 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:27:48 *** pyth [~dirkjan@5352D707.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: pyth] 19:27:58 <Zuu> Samu: I would prefere a nightly server over a stable server, if there was one apart from #openttdcoop that was good. 19:28:11 * fjb does not care for smoking diesel engines. 19:28:27 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-124.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:31:08 <Zuu> When dihedral auto nightly was active, I had support for it in OpenTTD Auto Update in the same way as it supports #openttdcoop. Since some year ago or so it is possible for users to follow any server they like using the custom server target. 19:32:35 <Zuu> Also OpenTTD Auto Update is not even the only program to support the task of finding the right nightly to join a server. There is another tool that is based on a list similar to openttd.com/servers where you select a server to join and the tool fetch the right binary version if you don't have it yet. 19:36:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: if you have a semi-up-to-date nightly server, the adressable player base might be smaller, but you also have not as big a competition around... 19:37:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: plus, nightly players may be more willing to also use newgrfs 19:38:09 * Wolf01 enjoys his macross vf-1j valkyrie with armor parts, 1/48 scale 19:38:22 <Zuu> And the risk of getting lame players that just are trying to destroy as much as possible is probably lower for nightly servers. 19:39:30 <Samu> I can't, sorry 19:39:39 *** Arie- [~Arie@s5592da6d.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:39:41 <planetmaker> The competition for a (semi-)nightly server with competition would be about zero 19:39:52 <Zuu> Samu: Why not? 19:40:08 <Samu> there's night versions everyday 19:40:14 <Samu> I'd have to download daily 19:40:17 <b_jonas> wow, this terrain is dry 19:40:28 <b_jonas> I've generated a tropic map 19:40:32 <Zuu> You do not need to download every day. 19:40:34 <b_jonas> it only has three water supplies 19:40:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: it would suffice to switch nightly every new game, or every week or so 19:40:46 <Zuu> It's up to you as server owner how often you want to upgrade. 19:41:08 <planetmaker> dih's nightly server was indeed nice 19:41:26 <planetmaker> Well. Maybe we can get such thing going again... not too difficult 19:41:28 <Zuu> As I said, there are ways to obtain or keep in sync with nightly servers even if they are not using the very latest nightly. 19:42:18 <Alberth> Samu: build your own from source, much less data to download 19:42:20 <Zuu> If we have enough people to admin it and give it some love :-) 19:42:26 <Eddi|zuHause> /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTD/1.0/src/pathfinder/yapf/../../misc/blob.hpp:319:10: warning: attempt to free a non-heap object ‘CBlobBaseSimple::hdrEmpty’ 19:42:30 <Eddi|zuHause> is that known? 19:42:35 <Eddi|zuHause> trying to compile RC2 19:42:50 <Alberth> it looks somewhat familiar 19:43:00 <b_jonas> isn't there a setting for delaying the start time of the AI players? 19:43:02 <Zuu> Alberth+ Samu: If you use a vcs to download you also only need to download the files that has changed. 19:43:06 <b_jonas> I can't find that setting for some reason 19:43:07 <Eddi|zuHause> comes with lots of template babble before 19:43:12 <planetmaker> b_jonas: look in the AI settings... 19:43:12 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: yes, it's known to those at GCC 19:43:30 <planetmaker> :-) 19:43:52 <Eddi|zuHause> aye... so only a compiler bug... nothing to worry about :p 19:44:20 <Alberth> more a compiler flagging a false positive 19:44:43 <Samu> how would I compile OpenTTD 19:44:46 <b_jonas> planetmaker: ah, for each individual AI! thanks 19:44:58 <Eddi|zuHause> ey... there's way too many string updates in svn up... 19:45:03 <Samu> I would make it use TTD graphics, sounds and music 19:45:24 <planetmaker> Samu: all that matters not at all for a server... 19:45:34 <Alberth> Samu: with a C++ compiler :P there are 'how to compile' pages at the wiki 19:46:07 <Samu> microsoft own installer is heavy 19:46:19 <Samu> I would use something like 19:46:23 <Samu> PAQ8PX 19:46:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: nah... you can do it just under 1GB of download :p 19:46:50 <Alberth> Samu: is PAQ8PX supposed to make any sense? 19:46:53 * planetmaker today downloaded 1.5GB installer to find out "I cannot install this here" :-( 19:47:11 <Samu> PAQ8PX I think it's the correct name for an archiver 19:47:37 <Samu> requires 2 GB to compress 19:47:38 <Alberth> I just use tar + gzip or bzip2 :) 19:47:40 <Samu> ram 19:48:18 <Eddi|zuHause> bzip2 the gzip output, and then rar and 7z that. 19:48:26 <Eddi|zuHause> that ought to make it _really_ compressed :p 19:48:27 <planetmaker> xz for the win ;-) 19:48:49 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: and encrypt it first :p 19:48:55 <Samu> PAQ8PX compressed original TT to 1,6 MB 19:48:58 <planetmaker> better after that ;-) 19:49:06 <Samu> but it took 40 minutes 19:49:10 <Samu> on my comp 19:49:11 <glx> 7z uses same algo than xz IIRC 19:49:24 <planetmaker> 7z knows lzma, yes 19:49:27 <Rubidium> glx: isn't 7z lzma and xz lzma2? 19:49:27 <Alberth> planetmaker: and loose the chance to cripple all the compression algorithms? nah 19:49:33 <Eddi|zuHause> if you take a compressor that can turn every n bit stream into <=n-1 bits, then it's trivial to compress everything to 1 bit :p 19:49:42 <planetmaker> ahaha :-) 19:49:59 <Rubidium> oh, not since 9.04beta :) 19:50:13 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: I can compress everything to 1 bit. 19:50:15 <glx> 9.04: LZMA2 and XZ support. ;) 19:50:20 <planetmaker> Did anyone mention without information loss? 19:50:29 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: not really, you also need to store how often you applied the compression program 19:50:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: yes, but you can then apply the same algorithm on that number :p 19:51:02 <glx> hmm I'm still using 4.65b 19:51:27 <glx> upgrading to 9.20 should be a good idea 19:51:44 <Eddi|zuHause> (obviously such an algorithm can't exist anyway. it's the computer science equivalent of a perpetuum mobile) 19:52:09 <planetmaker> might be a good idea to install p7zip in the first place :-) 19:52:19 <Alberth> did someone already claim they had such an algorithm? 19:52:38 <planetmaker> Alberth: I do :-) Still no-one wanted lossless-ness ;-) 19:52:43 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, afair someone wanted a patent on that method 19:52:54 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: it just needs an inventive way of defining "one bit" 19:53:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: well, compression algorithms generally are assumed to operate on two eqivalent alphabets... 19:53:42 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: otherwise it doesn't make sense
19:54:34 <Rubidium> e.g. define a bit as the space needed to store a bit in early 1940s computer 19:55:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: relais based or tube based? 19:55:16 <Alberth> oh, a relay has space enough :) 19:55:22 <Alberth> *relais 19:55:24 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: doesn't really matter 19:55:47 <Rubidium> given you could fit the universe in basically no space at all 19:55:53 <b_jonas> maybe the algorithm guarantees only to compress anything at least a megabyte long by at least a bit 19:56:05 <b_jonas> then you couldn't compress everything to one bit 19:56:08 <b_jonas> but it's still impossible 19:56:33 <Rubidium> in any case, zip is a "bad" file format for achieving optimal compression 19:57:01 <b_jonas> many times you don't actually need optmal compression 19:57:03 <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: the proof that it's impossible is actually really simple. 19:57:25 <b_jonas> it doesn't matter if you compress the 2G raw stuff to 500 M or 400 M 19:57:33 * Rubidium awaits Eddi|zuHause's proof given my definition of bit :) 19:57:37 <b_jonas> compression speed and compatibility also matters 19:57:56 <b_jonas> anyway, this industry revolution set seems fun 19:58:03 <b_jonas> has many different kinds of stations 19:58:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i already said beforehand that your definition is probably silly and not even worth discussing :p 19:58:36 <b_jonas> can I change opponent's color schemes? 19:58:38 *** asnoehu [~thok@524B7349.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:58:41 <b_jonas> AI opponent's 19:58:59 <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: you can only say that you don't want to see its custom colours 19:59:56 <b_jonas> I see 20:00:09 <b_jonas> I think it would make sense if I could change their colors 20:00:28 <b_jonas> I mean, that won't hinder their building, they don't see in color anyawy 20:00:37 <b_jonas> in a single player game at least 20:00:46 <b_jonas> maybe I should change their colors by cheating 20:00:53 <planetmaker> no hurt in that. 20:00:54 <Samu> http://encode.ru/forums/2-Data-Compression 20:01:07 <Samu> should be there 20:01:24 <Zuu> Why is not the select dependencies list on bananas manager page sorted alphabetically? Makes it a whole lot harder to properly set up NewGRF dependencies for scenarios. 20:02:03 <planetmaker> probably no-one told it to be sorted ;-) 20:02:08 <Rubidium> Zuu: because TB didn't code that I reckon, or because Django doesn't do that out-of-the-box 20:02:28 <Rubidium> but... file a feature request on the website project with the bananas category 20:02:48 * Terkhen had forgotten how expensive is playing with road vehicles 20:03:02 <planetmaker> http://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?project=4 <-- suggestions are taken there :-) 20:04:22 * Rubidium wonders how much people are going to complain if I replace the .zip with .7z and remove .bz2 in favour of .xz on the download page (for future builds) 20:04:37 <b_jonas> Rubidium: I will 20:04:42 <planetmaker> removing .zip would not be a good idea. I would ;-) 20:05:08 <b_jonas> xz isn't even stable yet 20:05:11 <planetmaker> every OS can read .zip (near-)natively, but not .7z 20:05:15 <planetmaker> b_jonas: it is 20:05:24 <Rubidium> b_jonas: xz is stable 20:05:50 <planetmaker> replacing bz2 by xz, though... ok :-) 20:06:05 <b_jonas> I don't understand. doesn't the Japanese train set promise to provide trains from 1920? 20:06:14 <b_jonas> I didn't get any trains in 1930, and only one train in 1950 20:06:15 <Samu> the other day I compared several compressors/archivers 20:06:25 <Samu> winace, winrar, freearc, 7-zip 20:06:49 <Samu> winace and winrar are the worst 20:06:53 <b_jonas> why's that? 20:06:56 <Samu> freearc is the better 20:07:03 <Samu> 7-zip a close second 20:07:17 <glx> depends on what you want to compress 20:07:26 <Samu> I compressed old dos games 20:07:48 *** asnoehu [~thok@524B7349.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 20:08:05 *** Arie- [~Arie@s5592da6d.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:08:37 <Samu> zip is still the fastest 20:08:45 <Samu> but loses to all 20:08:51 <Wolf01> 'nighty night 20:08:55 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host204-232-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:08:59 <Rubidium> lzo2 is definitely faster than zip 20:09:33 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.54.90] has joined #openttd 20:09:40 <Samu> do you know what is the zip version that comes with windows xp? 20:09:42 <Rubidium> except, IIRC, on zlib compression level 0 20:10:00 <b_jonas> wait, this isn't a japanese train! 20:10:04 <b_jonas> Wills 2-8-0 20:10:19 <Samu> I always wanted to search for the strongest zip compressor compatible with windows xp extractor 20:10:26 <b_jonas> ah, I see 20:10:35 <b_jonas> the japanese set doesn't support tropical climate 20:10:36 <b_jonas> hmm 20:11:22 <planetmaker> try it in arctic or temperate 20:11:49 <planetmaker> check whether it works in arctic though. Not 100% right now, but I *think* 20:12:16 <b_jonas> well, I'd rather play tropic now, with possibly some other trains 20:12:34 <b_jonas> tropical is less fun but looks better 20:12:46 <b_jonas> arctic makes me cold 20:12:53 <b_jonas> even if it's more balanced 20:12:58 <b_jonas> it's not what I need in the winter 20:16:04 <b_jonas> I wish depot orientations had keyboard shortcuts 20:17:31 <Eddi|zuHause> implement them 20:17:54 <Eddi|zuHause> it should really not be difficult 20:18:13 <Eddi|zuHause> if it's not actually already implemented and you only need to define one in hotkeys.cfg 20:18:14 <Alberth> new hot keys :) 20:19:38 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and while you are at it, keep it consistent with road station orientations ;) 20:19:57 <Eddi|zuHause> and when you're done with it, the signal gui 20:19:59 <Alberth> planetmaker: do you know when the first industry is available in-game in FIRS? 20:20:22 <Alberth> ie after initial industry generation? 20:20:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: the bakery in 14-something-ish? 20:20:54 <Alberth> woo, much earlier than 1937 :( 20:21:19 <b_jonas> where's this hotkeys.cfg? 20:21:34 <Alberth> right next to your openttd.cfg 20:21:40 <b_jonas> it's not there 20:21:55 <Eddi|zuHause> then you're using an ancient version 20:21:58 <b_jonas> my openttd.cfg is in ~/.openttd 20:22:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21278 /branches/1.0/ (5 files in 3 dirs): [1.0] -Prepare for 1.0.5 20:22:04 <b_jonas> I'm using -1.0.4 20:22:14 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's exactly what i mean ;) 20:22:16 <b_jonas> should I install -1.0.5 rc2? 20:22:20 <Eddi|zuHause> no 20:22:25 <Samu> pan window when mouse is at the edge 20:22:31 <Samu> what does this do? 20:22:44 <Eddi|zuHause> a) you can wait half an hour for 1.0.5, and b) it won't contain new features 20:23:06 <Rubidium> pan the viewport when you place the mouse at the edge of the window 20:23:06 <Alberth> Samu: I think it makes the main window move when you move your mouse to the edge 20:23:10 <b_jonas> okay, so how do I customize the hotkeys? 20:23:18 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: a) is more like 45-50 minutes for releases 20:23:20 <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: you download a nightly 20:23:25 <b_jonas> oh 20:23:53 <Samu> what about moving up or down? 20:24:00 <Samu> it only goes left and right 20:24:10 <b_jonas> I guess the way hotkeys would make sense if local hotkeys (ones that are active only in a few dialogs) such as skip wouldn't collide with global ones 20:24:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: it should do all directions 20:24:46 <b_jonas> so there would be a few keys (say f g h j k l) reserved for local hotkeys, and those would operate depot directions, station directions, the vehicle orders menu, etc 20:24:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21279 /tags/1.0.5/ (9 files in 4 dirs): -Release: 1.0.5 20:24:57 <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: local hotkeys override global ones 20:24:57 <b_jonas> becuase I keep getting tripped up by the hotkey for skip 20:25:04 <Samu> mouse outside window and it's still moving 20:25:07 <b_jonas> Eddi|zuHause: right, that's what's painful 20:25:10 <Samu> eh... 20:25:30 <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: the problem you have might already be different in nightly 20:25:38 <b_jonas> the D key 20:26:00 <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: yes, i know 20:26:04 <Samu> it's not working 20:26:05 <b_jonas> okay, thanks 20:26:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i've had that problem a couple times myself 20:26:40 <Samu> or, it works only for left and right, and sometimes when the mouse moves out of the window, it still goes to that direction 20:26:57 <b_jonas> I wouldn't mind using L for local hotkeys, I don't use the global L because D/Q/W/E/U/I already brings the landscaping up 20:27:05 <b_jonas> and I have the landscaping toolbar on almost always anyway 20:27:48 <Eddi|zuHause> which reminds me of this annoyance that i had: 20:28:10 <Eddi|zuHause> when you switch toolbars (road/rail/air/...), the stickiness goes away 20:28:30 <Samu> ah, I made it work up and down 20:28:35 <Samu> the toolbars 20:28:38 <Samu> don't let it work 20:28:48 <Samu> 640x480 doesn't work 20:29:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: that might be a bug 20:29:18 <Zuu> Oh, and while you are at hotkeys, add a hotkey hook for the AI debug menu item. :-) 20:29:59 <Samu> why does the screen keeps moving if I don't have the mouse pointing at that direction? 20:30:04 <Samu> so annoying 20:30:19 <b_jonas> what I would like is a button for railway fences in the transparency toolbar 20:30:48 <b_jonas> railway fences sometimes make it harder to see the fences, so I keep switching "full details" for that 20:30:57 <b_jonas> but it would really be better handled as a transparency option 20:31:12 <b_jonas> if it's performance critical than sure, let full detail switch it too 20:32:00 <b_jonas> these desert towns are stupid. they have more banks than water towers. 20:32:06 <Samu> when I don't have the mouse inside OpenTTD window, the game still remembers it's last position 20:32:08 <b_jonas> don't even the rich need to drink? 20:32:12 <Samu> so it keeps moving 20:32:26 <Samu> bah :( 20:33:34 <Samu> hard to get the pointer outside OpenTTD window without activating panning 20:33:38 <Samu> lol 20:34:45 *** nicfer1 [~nicfer@190.50.36.217] has joined #openttd 20:36:01 <AveiMil> Feature requst: Middle Mouse button scroll 20:36:08 <Samu> customizable hotkeys 20:36:13 <Samu> like all games have 20:36:22 <Eddi|zuHause> AveiMil: what's that supposed to be? 20:36:30 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.224] has joined #openttd 20:36:53 *** green-devil [~agw@0603ds4-abc.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 20:37:16 <Samu> function of scrollwheel, scroll map? what does it do? 20:37:26 <Samu> or, how do I get it to work 20:38:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: i think that was originally developed for Mac, not sure if it was ever tested on other computers. 20:38:22 <Rubidium> buy a mac 20:38:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: originally it's intended for touchpads, where you can do two-finger-scrolling in multiple directions 20:39:20 <Samu> macs barelly sell here 20:39:25 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.54.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:39:32 <Zuu> Also some older one-finger-touchpads support horizontal scrolling. 20:39:45 <Zuu> My old laptop had that (and it was a pc) 20:39:57 <Samu> ah, I don't have a laptop 20:40:02 <Samu> or touchpad 20:40:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: any 2D-scrollwheel should do :p 20:40:33 <Samu> my mouse has 3 buttons and a wheel 20:40:44 <Samu> middle button serves as wheel too 20:40:59 <Eddi|zuHause> wheel counts as 2 buttons usually (up, down) 20:41:13 <Samu> hmm, then it's 5 buttons? 20:41:16 <Eddi|zuHause> and 2D-Wheel is 4 buttons (up, down, left, right) 20:41:16 <Zuu> Yes 20:41:27 <Eddi|zuHause> my mouse is advertised as "9 buttons" 20:41:32 <Samu> it only goes up and down 20:41:37 <Zuu> A 3 button + wheel looks like a 5 button-mouse to the OS. At least in Linux. 20:42:04 <Zuu> Only that button 4 and 5 is mapped to the z axis. 20:45:19 <Samu> i have paq8px here 20:45:25 <Samu> 380kb 20:45:32 <Samu> need? 20:45:51 <b_jonas> there are also mouses with two actual extra buttons on the sides 20:47:49 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. all we ever needed is more esoteric compression algorithms 20:48:48 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba931c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:48:59 *** Arie- [~Arie@s5592da6d.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 20:49:12 <Samu> it has 4 exe files, I think 2 of them are for AMD, and 2 others are for Intel 20:49:54 <Samu> what is SSE2? 20:50:28 <Rubidium> old 20:50:45 *** andythenorth [~andy@host-135-196-34-178.lines.viateldsl.com] has joined #openttd 20:51:02 <andythenorth> efening 20:51:07 <Samu> hi 20:51:35 <AveiMil> What I meant by scroll was 20:51:37 <AveiMil> map scroll 20:51:47 <AveiMil> right now you can define left or right mouse button 20:52:00 <AveiMil> pressing mouse 3 should be viable :) 20:52:00 <planetmaker> [Alberth]: planetmaker: do you know when the first industry is available in-game in FIRS? <-- somewhen in the middle ages 20:52:33 <andythenorth> first FIRS industry? Some have no specific intro date, so probably 0 20:52:57 <andythenorth> we catered for those weirdos who want to play late rome :P 20:54:49 *** IchGuckLive [~chatzilla@88-134-59-132-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 20:54:52 <Alberth> I was wondering about the crash in FS#4250, perhaps http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4250/getfile/6881/crash.png is not FIRS? 20:55:53 <andythenorth> Alberth: it's a FIRS game 20:56:00 <andythenorth> is all I can tell you 20:56:11 * andythenorth thinks kogut is a very helpful finder of bugs 20:56:17 <andythenorth> and should get cookies 20:56:22 <Samu> autoslope is so expensive already, yet ppl still don't care 20:56:38 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:57:46 <Alberth> andythenorth: indeed, he finds many bugs. No if he also reduced the number of topics & sites he posts in, that would be useful ;) 20:58:46 <Alberth> Samu: I get money faster than I can spend, why should I care? 20:58:47 <IchGuckLive> can i get rid in jyear 2020+ of the losing of industries 20:59:14 <IchGuckLive> i spend near 1Bio on a channel then the oil raddenerie is gone ! 20:59:35 <Samu> there is a bug, or maybe an unintended feature regarding bridges on water + autoslope 21:00:01 <Alberth> IchGuckLive: oh, yes, industries disappear every now and then. 21:00:12 <Alberth> you can build a new one at the same place 21:00:41 <Alberth> or you can disable closing + opening of industries completely 21:01:00 <Alberth> or some industry newgrfs disable such things by themselves 21:01:24 <IchGuckLive> 1,8bio thats huge 21:01:54 <Samu> hard to explain, a bridge where the starting tile is half water, half land becomes way too expensive than a bridge that raises height one level, is longer and starts on full land 21:02:13 <Samu> meh, english 21:02:24 <IchGuckLive> Alberth: and noe the town refuses to build a Harbour 21:02:45 <Alberth> Samu: I get it 21:03:02 <IchGuckLive> Alberth: even no build on my own land 21:03:20 <Alberth> you can build tracks :p 21:03:38 <planetmaker> plant trees :-) 21:03:47 <Samu> bridge of length 4 21:03:54 <planetmaker> cutting down trees for whatever reason is greatly resented by the town citizens 21:03:56 <IchGuckLive> transfer is not good i nearly spend all my mony on this projekt ! 21:03:59 <Samu> starting tiles half water, half land 21:04:01 <Alberth> wait a while (if you have stations with good ratings), plant lots of trees, or bribe them :) 21:04:03 <Zuu> Samu: Did you play OpenTTD before autoslope existed? 21:04:09 <Samu> cost = 44k 21:04:10 <Samu> yes 21:04:22 <b_jonas> tropical map generation seems strange. even with mountainous setting, there are few snowy regions and almost no snowy towns. 21:04:27 <b_jonas> what am I doing wrong? 21:04:35 <IchGuckLive> desepointet so closing for tonight BY O.o 21:04:39 <fjb> planetmaker: Stuttgart 21. :) 21:04:44 <Zuu> Good, then you should be able to value the convinience of that feature :-) 21:04:44 <Alberth> IchGuckLive: bye 21:04:49 *** IchGuckLive [~chatzilla@88-134-59-132-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]] 21:05:04 <b_jonas> Zuu: that and building on slopes, yes 21:05:12 <b_jonas> anyone who's played ttd can value it 21:05:14 <Alberth> b_jonas: tropical with snow? sounds very wrong :) 21:05:20 <b_jonas> um, arctic 21:05:21 <b_jonas> sorry 21:05:25 <b_jonas> subarctic climate 21:05:38 <Samu> it's a bad feature imo, but since it increases costs, I think it's fair 21:05:50 <b_jonas> Samu: you can turn it off 21:06:02 <b_jonas> I've got only two snow towns on a 512x256 map 21:06:28 <Samu> it seriously remove planning and thinking altogether 21:06:54 <Samu> "should I make a bridge here?" "or a tunnel" "or terraform here?" "or turn around"? 21:07:02 <b_jonas> no, I've got three 21:07:04 <Samu> no, I just build a straigth line 21:07:05 <planetmaker> Just set terraform cost to max 21:07:13 <Alberth> b_jonas: do you use 'terragenesis' land generator? 21:07:17 <Samu> the game automatically does the bad part 21:07:34 <b_jonas> Alberth: yes 21:07:43 <b_jonas> and snow height is 7, I don't know what the default is 21:08:04 *** green-devil [~agw@0603ds4-abc.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [] 21:08:06 <planetmaker> possibly 7 ;-) 21:08:07 <Alberth> b_jonas: variety not too high 21:08:28 <planetmaker> he :-) I usually recommend variety to very high 21:08:35 <Alberth> b_jonas: lower snow limit => more snowy towns :) 21:08:44 <b_jonas> variety is set to very low. I don't know what that even means 21:08:46 <Alberth> planetmaker: then you get more 'waves' 21:08:47 <b_jonas> Alberth: obviously 21:09:01 <planetmaker> concerning snowline: use the snowlinemod newgrf </shameless plug> 21:09:02 <Alberth> b_jonas: set to medium 21:10:07 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@adsl-99-129-154-191.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Don't Panic!] 21:10:18 <Alberth> b_jonas: variety adds mountain 'waves', low is almost nothing, very high are many 'short' mountains 21:10:34 <Samu> I thought variety was for trees 21:10:37 <Samu> :( 21:10:58 <Alberth> that's the tree algorithm :) 21:11:16 <Alberth> but trees are also affected by height 21:11:26 <b_jonas> Alberth: I see. thanks. 21:11:30 <planetmaker> there's a tooltip... it briefly explains every function 21:11:41 <Samu> the game seems to build autoslope-trees 21:11:53 <Samu> on this scenario from TTD 21:12:00 <Alberth> I also have map edges to 'random' so you can have land at the edges 21:12:08 <Samu> called Dice Zone, planting trees on slopes makes the map look bad on the minimap 21:12:11 <b_jonas> I don't get it. what use do they have for so may oil refineries and prining works in 1950 while they don't have as many food processing plants 21:12:19 <b_jonas> seems to go against common sense 21:12:58 <b_jonas> and many banks too 21:13:12 <b_jonas> I think I'm going to rob one of these banks to get money 21:13:23 <Alberth> the game has nothing to do with any form of reality 21:14:20 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@adsl-99-129-154-191.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 21:14:27 <b_jonas> sure 21:15:30 <Alberth> planetmaker: no tooltip for many buttons, it seems (after trying randomly 3 buttons) 21:16:39 <planetmaker> he :-( 21:17:54 <Samu> can you fix bridge costs over water? 21:18:31 <Terkhen> what is the bug? 21:18:55 <Samu> makes no sense that a bridge that goes 2 levels higher on water is cheaper than another that goes only 1 level just because its starting points are full land 21:19:08 <Terkhen> why not? 21:19:53 <Samu> 2 slopes and 1 more level is the difference between a bridge costing 40k and 4k 21:21:02 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba931c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:21:24 <Terkhen> I still don't understand the problem 21:21:51 <Alberth> modifications near the water are very expensive 21:22:32 <Terkhen> oh, okay :) 21:23:09 <Alberth> Terkhen: he is building a bridge against a half-tile that is half in the water, so foundations are added. 21:23:15 <Terkhen> Samu: you can change the base costs using a NewGRF 21:23:32 <Terkhen> some of the water costs can only be changed with a nightly newer than r19720 21:23:34 <Alberth> the other option is to raise the bridge 1 level. Way cheaper 21:23:44 <planetmaker> but then not everyone has to suffer from that, Terkhen ! ;-) 21:24:04 <Samu> let me show you a topic 21:25:05 <Samu> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=912348#p912348 21:25:07 <Samu> that's it 21:25:35 <Terkhen> in which way is that related to our bridge discussion? 21:26:19 <Samu> the AI elevated the bridge 21:26:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21280 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Merge: documentation updates from 1.0 21:26:26 <Samu> because it's cheaper 21:26:33 <Terkhen> yeah, it is the same I would do 21:26:49 <Samu> makes no sense, but ok... 21:27:08 <Samu> a longer/higher bridge cheaper than a shorter, same level bridge 21:27:23 <Terkhen> whatever, I'm tired of hearing that nothing makes sense and that everything is wrong 21:28:18 <planetmaker> welcome to the club, Terkhen 21:28:26 <andythenorth> we broke Terkhen :( 21:28:39 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba931c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 21:28:40 <Alberth> that short bridge has 4 terraformed tiles at a water-edge 21:28:45 * planetmaker hugs Terkhen 21:28:47 <planetmaker> cookie? 21:28:57 <Terkhen> thanks :P 21:29:14 <planetmaker> :-) 21:29:16 <Terkhen> continuing with my road vehicle testing will help too 21:29:43 <planetmaker> reminds me... I was about to update our stable server... 21:29:54 <planetmaker> we're not up to date anymore :-) 21:30:22 <Samu> if only I could show you what I wanted... 21:30:31 <Terkhen> although my highways are already about to collapse with just 2 iron ore mines, 2 coal mines and a steel mill 21:30:40 <planetmaker> already? 21:31:08 <Rubidium> @topic set 1 1.0.5 21:31:08 *** DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.0.5 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | English only 21:31:30 <Alberth> Samu: so many people want their thing from us.... 21:31:40 <Terkhen> they probably can still take a bit more traffic 21:31:54 <Terkhen> but since the mines are starting to receive ENSP it won't last much 21:31:55 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1CA2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:10 <Alberth> if you look at what AIs put on the road ... :) 21:32:14 <Samu> cool, i made 2 screenshots, where do I send them? 21:32:36 <Alberth> to do what? 21:32:41 <andythenorth> Terkhen: maybe you need some bigger trucks :P 21:32:50 <Alberth> there is a screenshot forum 21:32:59 <Samu> I'll post on the problem forum 21:32:59 <Alberth> there are also image bins 21:33:02 <planetmaker> Terkhen: maybe also some... 15-vehicle trams? 21:33:07 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I know which ones I should be using, but I wanted to test mine :) 21:33:18 <planetmaker> some friendly newgrf dev has a newgrf with those ;-) 21:33:20 <andythenorth> http://etftrucks.nl.vedor.com/ 21:33:32 <Terkhen> they have all the problems of the standard road vehicles, except the refit part :P 21:33:47 <planetmaker> :-) 21:33:47 <Terkhen> it is not very fun to play only with them 21:33:56 * Terkhen ponders adding a NewGRF to a running game 21:34:03 <Alberth> andythenorth: shiny green ones :) 21:34:03 <planetmaker> oh no! 21:34:14 <planetmaker> But I guess you may... you're a newgrf developer ;-) 21:34:35 <Terkhen> I think I'm going to ignore the warning and complain if it crashes :) 21:34:46 <Alberth> planetmaker: everybody may, as long as they don't come and complain with us 21:35:09 <planetmaker> :-) they may not! Because it has to be played by my rules! 21:35:12 <planetmaker> :-P 21:35:13 <Terkhen> andythenorth: what a monster 21:35:14 <Zuu> Terkhen: Sounds like a good plan ^^ 21:35:15 <Samu> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=51330 21:35:37 <Alberth> Terkhen: good, I already know which dev will volunteer to solve the problem :p 21:36:28 <Terkhen> that's really efficient: I can complain to myself about the problem, complain against myself because I'm a stupid user and fix my own problem 21:37:00 <Alberth> Samu: is that a new trend, posting pictures without explaining what I am supposed to learn from them? 21:37:16 <frosch123> pictures are worth more than 1000 words 21:37:23 <frosch123> see: there is a green pixel 21:37:28 <b_jonas> wow, this version has a setting for the date format in the savefile name 21:37:32 <b_jonas> that's just what I wanted 21:37:33 <frosch123> 6 words per pixel 21:37:38 <b_jonas> I guess that's new 21:37:46 <frosch123> b_jonas: no :p 21:37:56 <b_jonas> thanks for whoever did it 21:37:57 <frosch123> i would guess about 2 years old 21:37:58 <Samu> I have already explained here 21:38:04 <b_jonas> I think it's new because I hasn't set it yet 21:38:21 <Alberth> frosch123: except the post contains entire screen shots, so many words that the message gets lost 21:38:35 <Zuu> andythenorth: Nice big trucks :-) 21:38:42 <Alberth> Samu: most forum readers are not here 21:38:50 <andythenorth> fortunately :P 21:38:54 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba931c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:54 <Terkhen> oh well 21:39:11 <Alberth> not to mention that in one week from now, nobody remembers this conversation 21:39:18 <Terkhen> the bulk truck is already tested, I'll just start another game with HEQS to test the other trucks 21:39:48 <Alberth> Terkhen: load another grf, and have a truck race :) 21:40:55 <Terkhen> :D 21:42:59 <Samu> i edited topic 21:43:22 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d8228e7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: reboot] 21:44:38 <Zuu> andythenorth: Speaking of rv wagons - reminds me of a logistics book I had at university that included tips on how you can setup a set of trucks + wagons that can run using two drivers in nordic countries and then as three in the rest of the EU where 24 meter trucks are not allowed. :-D 21:44:57 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d8228e7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 21:45:10 <Zuu> All you needed is a extra driving unit and reordering the wagons. 21:45:19 <Samu> how do I build a bridge over a bridge? I saw some AI doing it, then I tried and I couldn't 21:45:34 <Zuu> In order to go from 24 meter to whatever the limit is in the rest of the EU. 21:46:19 <b_jonas> uh, I might be young, but... do I put the break van to the very back of the train or to the front behind the engine? 21:46:35 <andythenorth> b_jonas: wherever you like? 21:46:49 <andythenorth> normally to the back though 21:47:15 <b_jonas> thanks 21:47:25 <Samu> those newgrfs overcomplicate things sometimes 21:47:58 <Samu> it's hard to make one, then no one plays it 21:48:12 <Samu> kinda reminds me of my war3 maps 21:48:24 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:50:28 * andythenorth wants newgrfs to phone home 21:50:38 <andythenorth> in some horribly invasive way :P 21:51:08 <Terkhen> can't you do that already with some callback? 21:52:06 <b_jonas> I'm not using the newgrfs because I don't know which ones to use 21:52:14 <b_jonas> but now you gave me some hints so now I can use some 21:53:03 <Terkhen> b_jonas: it is confusing at first; I started playing with a few vehicle GRFs without new industries and kept trying other things to see which ones I liked 21:53:39 <planetmaker> b_jonas: the only good tip really is: try few at a time only :-) 21:54:06 <b_jonas> planetmaker: uh, you should have told that earlier 21:54:19 <planetmaker> depends on the definition of few ;-) 21:55:10 <b_jonas> and depends on which kinds of grf: there are ones that replace the entire industrial chain, and ones that only give a single extra town building 21:55:27 <b_jonas> I've loaded quite a few now 21:57:35 <Samu> compatability 21:57:37 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@225.80-202-65.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 21:57:44 <Samu> who writes compatability? :p 21:57:59 <b_jonas> Hungarian town names, Industrial Stations Renewal, Japanese Stations (these two sort of clash), Japan Set Trees, Japanese Building, Japanese Landscape, Japanese Maglev, Japanese Train, Swedish Houses, Swedish Rails, Generic Tram set. 21:58:17 <planetmaker> stations never clash :-) 21:58:31 <planetmaker> your list is fine 21:58:44 <planetmaker> I'd not have chosen both house sets, though 21:58:52 <b_jonas> I made a point not to load two train sets, and not load two town name sets 21:58:59 <planetmaker> it's not a problem but doesn't make sense visually 22:02:02 <b_jonas> thanks 22:03:18 <Samu> Does NoCAB work on this new release? 22:03:26 <Samu> 1.0.5? 22:03:55 <Samu> he mentioned something about the API 22:04:31 <Zuu> If he mentioned something about the API, I would re-read that part. 22:04:36 <Samu> but there's some contradictions 22:04:49 <Samu> yexo says no, nocab says yes 22:06:12 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 22:06:28 <Samu> it was planetmaker, not yexo 22:06:46 <Samu> planetmaker says no, nocab says yes 22:06:53 <planetmaker> ? 22:07:29 <Zuu> According to the API docs, you need a nightly. 22:07:54 * andythenorth wonders how we can make the game more beautiful 22:07:59 <Zuu> Morloth said he need AIIndustry::INDUSTRYTYPE_*. 22:08:19 <Samu> yes, that 22:08:23 <Zuu> That is only available in the trunk API (in AIIndustryType::INDUSTRYTYPE_*), not the 1.0.5 API. 22:08:31 <Samu> ah :( 22:08:40 <Samu> gonna complain then 22:08:50 <Zuu> Compare http://noai.openttd.org/api/1.0.5/ and http://noai.openttd.org/api/trunk/ 22:09:08 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 22:09:15 <Zuu> Complain is not good. Making him aware of the issue is better. 22:09:20 <Rubidium> there are no NoAI API changes in 1.0.5 compared to 1.0.4, so if it doesn't work in 1.0.4 it doesn't work in 1.0.5 either 22:10:04 <b_jonas> andythenorth: make a newgrf with lots of different town houses 22:10:11 <Samu> how long 'till 1.1.0? 22:10:24 <Samu> 5 more months? 22:10:26 * Terkhen wonders if using the Gmund Hog for delivering supplies is a good idea 22:10:32 <Zuu> He probably have set API version as "1.0" in his AI, but develop on a nightly build. Then you have the 1.0 compatibility loaded but can accidently access newer functions that are not part of the 1.0 API version. 22:10:46 <andythenorth> Terkhen: that's what it's intended for 22:10:50 <Samu> well, I'll wait for 1.1.0 22:10:55 <andythenorth> it's not fast though 22:10:58 <Terkhen> okay, let's see :) 22:11:30 <Terkhen> I'm in 1950, it is my fastest road vehicle besides buses 22:11:32 <Zuu> Samu: There will probably be betas comming around a few months before the next stable. 22:12:58 <Samu> why is the file COPYING without any extension? :) 22:13:07 <Samu> it's a text 22:13:18 <planetmaker> convention 22:14:05 <Samu> DOSBOX has it as COPYING.txt 22:14:14 <b_jonas> strange. some trees I see on the map don't show up in the trees selector 22:14:16 <Samu> exactly the same file 22:14:22 <Rubidium> so they're violating convention 22:14:34 <Samu> really? lol poor guys 22:14:41 <b_jonas> or maybe they just have a very different color 22:14:44 <b_jonas> but the same shape 22:15:06 <b_jonas> Rubidium: quite the contrary: the dos convention is that all regular files should have an extesions 22:15:12 <b_jonas> that's kept by all dos programs 22:15:21 <b_jonas> even if not actually required by the system 22:15:37 <Rubidium> the DOS convention is that command line arguments use / 22:15:38 <b_jonas> so it makes sense that the dos port keeps it 22:15:44 <Rubidium> you don't see that in OpenTTD 22:15:45 <b_jonas> Rubidium: sure, but many dos programs break it\ 22:15:53 <b_jonas> the / arguments that is 22:16:12 <Rubidium> and for fun: dosbox uses "-" for arguments and not "/" 22:17:41 <Rubidium> b_jonas: ever looked at dosbox's source code 22:18:04 <Rubidium> the violation of "dos" protocol is immensive 22:18:18 <Eddi|zuHause> <Rubidium> so they're violating convention <-- violating a convention is far less serious than violating the actual license ;) 22:18:21 <Rubidium> e.g. it's COPYING, not COPYING.txt, in dosbox's source code 22:18:41 <Rubidium> actually, dosbox's readme doesn't even have an extension 22:18:53 <Rubidium> and for what it's worth, DOS convention is COPYING.TXT 22:19:13 <Samu> all texts from dosbox are .txt over here 22:19:39 <Rubidium> then someone did change all of those during release 22:19:57 <Samu> i downloaded dosbox 0.74 22:20:05 <Samu> that's the version I'm using 22:20:08 <Rubidium> I downloaded dosbox 0.74's source code 22:20:30 <Samu> no idea how to use a source code 22:23:51 <b_jonas> Rubidium: I see 22:24:31 * andythenorth thinks bedtime 22:24:33 *** andythenorth [~andy@host-135-196-34-178.lines.viateldsl.com] has left #openttd [] 22:27:19 *** dageek [~dageek@87-194-2-213.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:38:30 <Terkhen> good idea 22:38:31 <Terkhen> good night 22:39:17 *** dageek is now known as Guest60 22:39:18 *** dageek [~dageek@87-194-2-213.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:39:54 *** dageek [~dageek@87-194-2-213.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 22:43:11 *** Guest60 [~dageek@87-194-2-213.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:47:58 <Samu> autoreplace all trains in the depot 22:48:12 <Samu> what does this do? even with trains inside, it does nothing 22:49:34 <Eddi|zuHause> you can set up replacement rules while game is paused, replace the trains, and remove the rule again, to not influence other trains 22:50:59 <Eddi|zuHause> (i almost always use autoreplace this way) 22:53:39 <Samu> I thought this button would change the engine to a new one of the same model 22:54:36 <Eddi|zuHause> it can probably do that as well, but it needs (temporarily) setting the autorenew setting in advanced options 22:55:24 *** Arie- [~Arie@s5592da6d.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:55:31 <Eddi|zuHause> # isn't that cute 22:55:36 <Eddi|zuHause> # an extra belly button 22:55:41 <Eddi|zuHause> ... what a stupid song... 22:56:31 *** nicfer1 [~nicfer@190.50.36.217] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:56:52 <Samu> I remember that song 22:57:06 <Samu> it's old 22:57:13 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it is ;) 22:58:14 <Samu> short dick man 22:58:30 <Eddi|zuHause> early 90's? 22:58:47 <Eddi|zuHause> damn thing isn't tagged properly... 22:59:12 <Samu> 94 somewhat 22:59:14 <Samu> not sure 23:01:59 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 23:02:41 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.36.217] has joined #openttd 23:05:59 <Eddi|zuHause> of course i didn't understand a single word back then... 23:06:03 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd522.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:43 *** Arie- [~Arie@s5592da6d.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 23:07:58 <__ln___> it's confusing when actors from Heroes appear on House M.D. 23:08:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't watch house. 23:10:49 <__ln___> you should 23:11:00 <Samu> OMG I went bankrupt 23:11:54 <Samu> lol, the plastic fountains was only producing 18,000 23:11:56 <Samu> :( 23:12:20 <Samu> gonna download 1.0.5 23:12:40 <__ln___> and they don't have their powers when on House. 23:13:01 <Samu> problem with the 1.0.4 uninstaller 23:13:15 <Samu> save game folder is not located at where the uninstaller says it is 23:13:37 <Samu> scenario folder, same thing 23:13:58 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln___: damn, i thought the actual actors had those powers!! 23:14:04 <Eddi|zuHause> I HAVE BEEN SCREWED!! 23:14:06 <Zuu> Samu: What does the installer say? 23:14:27 <Samu> it asks me if I want to delete save games 23:14:33 <Samu> and then if I want to delete scenarios 23:14:39 <Samu> and it points me to their folders 23:14:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: usually you don't want to do that 23:14:50 <Zuu> I mean, which path does the installer suggest? 23:14:52 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:14:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: also, you usually don't need uninstalling at all 23:14:58 <Zuu> I never used the installer myself. 23:15:08 <Samu> c:\programas\openttd\save 23:15:10 <Samu> c:\programas\openttd\scenario 23:15:40 <Samu> they are here 23:15:43 <Samu> C:\Documents and Settings\MOI\Os meus documentos\OpenTTD\save 23:15:53 <Samu> C:\Documents and Settings\MOI\Os meus documentos\OpenTTD\scenario 23:16:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: might be simply an unimplented validation routine... 23:16:38 <Zuu> If it bothers you, you can file a bug report - after checking that there isn't one already. 23:17:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: but you should not put this stuff in programs\openttd anyway. 23:17:17 <Rubidium> ye good old days the savegames were in program files... 23:17:17 <Zuu> Please make that report more self explaining than your screenshot thread then. 23:17:50 <Samu> ok 23:17:59 <Eddi|zuHause> what? his poll thread was hugely self-explaining :p 23:19:22 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.36.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:20:25 <Samu> data and gm folders weren't uninstalled 23:20:30 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.36.217] has joined #openttd 23:20:33 <Samu> I guess I know why 23:24:12 <Samu> what is the category for this? 23:24:15 <Samu> build system? 23:27:46 <glx> some installer bugs are fixed in trunk but not yet backported 23:30:08 <Samu> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4251 23:30:13 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:34:21 <planetmaker> good night 23:35:14 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:36:40 <Samu> I always wanted to ask, the installer is smaller than the zip version 23:39:15 <Rubidium> yeah, the installer uses lzma (7z), the zip doesn't 23:39:57 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1CA2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:40:45 <Eddi|zuHause> the 30 year old generic algorithm obviously isn't as efficient as the 5 year old one 23:41:14 <Eddi|zuHause> lmaa 23:41:25 <Samu> 28kb/s 23:41:28 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, the joke wasn't funny the first time either :p 23:42:03 <Samu> 1 minute to go 23:43:19 *** Arie- [~Arie@s5592da6d.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:43:27 <Samu> scan with avgfree 23:44:29 <Samu> meh, i have to mount the isz 23:46:46 <Eddi|zuHause> you are a strange kid, even under nerds you manage to stand out :p 23:47:19 * Rubidium ponders mounting some other defenses 23:47:47 <Samu> it's good to called kid at this age 23:48:43 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d8228e7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:50:40 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-101-84.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:51:11 <Eddi|zuHause> you know, "kid" was meant metaphorically... 23:51:48 <Samu> aww, you didn't add aircraft type line :( 23:51:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i managed to be called "old man" at the age of 20 on the internet :p 23:52:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: no new features are added at all 23:52:47 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe8bde00-63.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 23:53:43 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 23:53:52 <Samu> you fixed something about snow line? what was that about? 23:54:53 <Eddi|zuHause> you know, it has a revision number attached to it for a reason. 23:55:08 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]