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00:00:20 <Zuu> So in order to auto-detect a GUI scale, OpenTTD would need to have access to the graphics/monitor driver to maybe be able to detect the physical screen size + resolution in order to calculate the DPI. 00:00:40 <FauxFaux> Windows certainly exposes an estimate of that information. ¬_¬ 00:03:00 <Wolf01> and an option to chose the dpi in the options gui (near the resolution)? 00:09:37 <b_jonas> it needn't autodetect, there could be an option in the menu. the hard part is drawing all the graphics. 00:11:51 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:23:30 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-217.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:25:35 <Wolf01> b_jonas, why drawing when you can resize? 00:25:39 *** Arie- [~Arie@s5592da6d.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 00:25:57 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:36:00 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-75-247.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:38:13 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2811.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 00:41:50 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 00:44:02 *** Lakie is now known as Guest721 00:44:03 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 00:48:59 *** AveiMil [~AveiMil@232.81-166-168.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC with a difference] 00:50:41 *** Guest721 [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:50:56 <Wolf01> uhm... why does the vehicle factory produces cars while I must rely only on horses in 1850? it should produce wheelbarrows and coaches 01:07:08 <Markk> Current date: 5430-03-27 01:07:10 <Markk> Whoops 01:07:17 <Markk> Think I may have forgotten to restart the game 01:07:31 <Wolf01> :) 01:14:32 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.200.216] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 01:18:53 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8016.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:20:27 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:23:38 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-26-242.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:29:46 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77D9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:30:23 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77D9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:34:48 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 01:36:31 <Wolf01> nini 01:36:35 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host204-232-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 01:38:03 *** APTX_ [~APTX@chello089077244008.chello.pl] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 01:38:25 *** APTX [~APTX@89.77.244.8] has joined #openttd 01:55:47 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 01:57:54 *** fmauneko [~fmauneko@88.166.241.226] has quit [Quit: fmauneko] 02:06:46 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] 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roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:56:25 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:59:48 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe8bde00-63.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:04:40 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:05:31 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:07:20 *** Arie- [~Arie@s5592da6d.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 08:10:55 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:14:55 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:22:48 *** Nite [5472b1fc@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 08:22:54 <Nite> Hi 08:24:13 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:25:32 <Nite> Anyone on? 08:26:04 <Nite> too early 4 sunday i guess ;) 08:26:16 *** Nite [5472b1fc@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [] 08:26:59 <Rubidium> or just too early to be bothered to answer those kinds of questions 08:37:36 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:50:33 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2811.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:51:58 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-251-33.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:54:26 <Terkhen> good morning 08:54:35 <Rubidium> moi 09:05:25 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-247.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:05:30 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-97-226.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 09:06:33 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 09:08:30 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:13:38 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:27:17 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:27:20 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 09:27:41 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 09:28:53 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 09:29:43 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host204-232-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:30:02 <Wolf01> hello 09:31:33 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:31:46 <andythenorth> mornink 09:31:50 <andythenorth> Alberth: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=51508 09:32:50 <Alberth> I don't believe such things happen by accident any more :) 09:34:19 <andythenorth> also http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=51510 09:34:24 <andythenorth> but that's rv-wagons 09:38:00 <peter1138> heh 09:43:48 <Terkhen> :D 09:50:27 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 09:53:14 <andythenorth> if I add too many hi-rail trucks to HEQS, gameplay will be distorted :o 09:55:15 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d821d8c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:58:05 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 09:58:11 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C595.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:59:25 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 10:05:31 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 10:06:14 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:06:15 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 10:12:15 <Wolf01> andythenorth: I don't think so, maybe you can give more visibility to road vehicles, trains are nice because they earn money really fast and people go crazy in building stations and track layouts, rv are ignored sometimes 10:12:34 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ENOIRC] 10:12:36 <andythenorth> Wolf01: hi-rail trucks are trains ;) 10:12:53 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 10:13:03 <Wolf01> oh, I thought they were trams 10:15:31 <andythenorth> http://www.google.co.uk/images?client=safari&rls=en&q=hi-rail+truck&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1276&bih=668 10:18:50 <Wolf01> if you could make them use both rail and roads you can add thousands of them IMHO :D :D :D 10:19:24 <andythenorth> yeah 10:19:39 <andythenorth> would you like to take a bet on whether that's going to happen :D 10:19:40 <andythenorth> ? 10:20:53 <Wolf01> eheh, I hope this won't remain a pony in eternity 10:21:02 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 10:23:20 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:25:40 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:26:14 * Alberth bets it has happened in the year â 10:26:58 * andythenorth can't even think how it would work 10:29:46 <Alberth> path-finder will find a route over both road and rail 10:30:07 <Alberth> at a level crossing, you switch between road and rail :) 10:34:07 *** AveiMil [~AveiMil@232.81-166-168.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 10:40:32 <AveiMil> is there any way to increase the buy land cost? 10:40:39 <AveiMil> or disable the feature? 10:41:03 <Wolf01> newgrf to alter the base costs 10:42:08 <AveiMil> yeah but can you alter JUST the buy land cost? 10:43:15 <Wolf01> uhm, I think it influences all the land clearance commands 10:43:34 <AveiMil> yeah I don't want that 10:49:57 <AveiMil> Do you know how to make a server welcome message? 10:52:11 *** fjb is now known as Guest752 10:52:12 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFE390.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:54:41 <andythenorth> Alberth: make a road-rail type 10:54:46 <andythenorth> road and rail on same tile 10:55:02 <andythenorth> but pathfinding + obeying signals etc might really suck :P 10:57:48 <Alberth> you get new disasters for free :p 10:59:31 *** Guest752 [~frank@p5DDFD2E9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:05:41 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2811.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 11:25:43 <AveiMil> Anyone up for a game, 13:00 CET? 11:38:21 * andythenorth wonders why running cost is fixed, and not a factor of fuel use? 11:44:43 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9A16.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:48:21 <Wolf01> <Alberth> you get new disasters for free :p <- it crashes with itself because it is both rv and rail vehicle on the same tile 11:49:24 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-134-107.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 11:51:03 <AveiMil> http://www.openttd.org/en/server/37719 <- need 2 more for a game 11:55:34 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-97-226.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:59:56 *** Arie- [~Arie@s5592da6d.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:00:46 *** IchGuckLive [~chatzilla@88-134-59-132-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 12:01:38 <IchGuckLive> HI all ! I buildet a monorail line now i i opend the DEpo on this line but there is no monorail engine in the list to buy ? 12:02:25 <FauxFaux> Unlucky. 12:03:43 <TrueBrain> FauxFaux: can't you be more helpful? :p 12:03:44 <IchGuckLive> i worked hard for 4mio cash now i got to rap it ? or shoudt i downgrade to elecrtic 12:04:02 <TrueBrain> IchGuckLive: did you build a monorail depot? 12:04:09 <IchGuckLive> yes 12:04:31 <TrueBrain> so monorail engines are not invented in the year you are, I guess .. meh .. I shouldn't be guessing, haven't played this game in ages :) 12:04:49 <Eddi|zuHause> IchGuckLive: and you have wagons available? 12:04:56 <IchGuckLive> yes 12:05:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess you should get an engine within the next year or so 12:05:11 <IchGuckLive> 2 engines also there saying electrical 12:05:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so you DO have an engine? 12:05:37 <IchGuckLive> X2001 electric and milleniumZ1 12:05:51 <Eddi|zuHause> it just doesn't say "monorail" next to it, so you get confused? 12:06:07 <IchGuckLive> ok i thught it shoudt be named monorail 12:06:23 <IchGuckLive> ok 12:06:27 <IchGuckLive> BY 12:06:46 *** IchGuckLive [~chatzilla@88-134-59-132-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]] 12:12:08 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:13:54 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 12:17:21 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 12:22:10 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 12:24:31 <AveiMil> Anyone want to compete? 12:24:35 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.200.216] has joined #openttd 12:24:38 <AveiMil> We're about to start with 5 people, http://www.openttd.org/en/server/37719 12:25:00 <Terkhen> AveiMil: please stop the spam 12:25:24 <AveiMil> please stop bugging me about spamming when I'm not spamming 12:26:06 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-75-247.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:27:51 * andythenorth wonders how much trams should cost 12:28:25 <TrueBrain> AveiMil: please stop disagreeing about if you are spamming or not 12:28:59 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:29:03 <andythenorth> is he spamming? 12:29:10 <TrueBrain> advertising is spamming, so yes :) 12:29:20 <AveiMil> I asked if anyone wanted to PLAY a game, 30 minutes apart 12:29:22 <AveiMil> if that's spamming 12:29:26 <TrueBrain> imagine how this channel would be if everyone would do that .. omg ... 12:29:26 <AveiMil> blow me 12:29:32 <TrueBrain> @kban AveiMil 600 granted 12:29:33 *** mode/#openttd [+b *!~AveiMil@232.81-166-168.customer.lyse.net] by DorpsGek 12:29:33 *** AveiMil was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [granted] 12:29:54 <andythenorth> harsh :P 12:29:55 <TrueBrain> wrong person to challenge 12:30:13 <andythenorth> knife, gun fight 12:30:17 <TrueBrain> I somehow dislike people who show little respect, dunno what it is :) 12:33:03 <Terkhen> it's actually the second time he answers rudely to my request, I was checking the kban syntax to avoid having the same scene a third time :) 12:33:13 <Terkhen> but you always learn better with an example 12:33:18 <TrueBrain> sorry Terkhen, I didn't want to steal it from you :) 12:33:46 <Terkhen> :) 12:33:56 <TrueBrain> but yeah, now you know the syntax :D 12:34:04 <Terkhen> :D 12:34:09 <Rawh> you could always kickban at random, to even out the score, as long as it isn't me >.< 12:34:22 <andythenorth> brrrr 12:34:28 <TrueBrain> Rawh: smart addition, the last part :D 12:34:32 <andythenorth> balancing capacities against Pikka trains is hard 12:34:40 <Rawh> yeh :D 12:34:40 <andythenorth> due to arbitrarily low capacity in those sets 12:37:30 <V453000> ukrs2? 12:38:19 <Wolf01> TrueBrain, do you still have the patch for PocketPC? Maybe it's a bit outdated, but I think it will be possible to update to trunk with less modifications than developing a new patch 12:38:48 <TrueBrain> eeeuuhhhh 12:39:03 <andythenorth> V453000: yes 12:39:13 <V453000> y, I see no point why the capacities are so low 12:39:35 *** mode/#openttd [-b *!~AveiMil@232.81-166-168.customer.lyse.net] by DorpsGek 12:39:39 <andythenorth> to encourage trains with more wagons 12:39:45 <andythenorth> Dan and Pikka did it for valid reasons 12:39:47 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: nope, not here anyway. Most likely on some topic .. dunno .. 12:39:49 <TrueBrain> it never really worked 12:39:59 <TrueBrain> most is committed what did .. 12:40:01 <V453000> oh lol, supporting longer trains ... nice for noobs 12:41:09 <Ammler> andythenorth: and why is it hard,just half your cap too 12:41:29 <andythenorth> Ammler: because road vehicles don't work like trains 12:41:39 <Wolf01> then I must only work on the gui and disable some settings like maps with more than 512*512 tiles etc 12:41:42 <andythenorth> half capacity == road vehicle losing money, and double the number of vehicles needed 12:42:00 * Terkhen knows where this discussion is going :) 12:42:18 <andythenorth> this discussion is going towards me annoying players by reducing capacity of existing HEQS trams :P 12:42:30 <V453000> which would be quite appropriate :) 12:42:49 <Ammler> well, this sounded more like a parameter setting or autodetection of ukrs 12:43:26 <andythenorth> not so much :) 12:43:41 <andythenorth> although I may add a capacity parameter to HEQS 2 12:43:43 <planetmaker> hello 12:43:43 <andythenorth> not sure yet 12:43:46 * Terkhen mumbles bad things about libicu 12:43:48 <andythenorth> hi planetmaker 12:43:49 <Terkhen> hi planetmaker 12:43:53 <V453000> hi 12:44:11 <planetmaker> [13:36] <andythenorth> balancing capacities against Pikka trains is hard <-- you could go for low capacity when pikka's newgrfs are present. But go for your faviourite otherwise. Or alike 12:44:14 <Wolf01> hi planetmaker 12:44:21 <planetmaker> if it is just a simple multiplier 12:45:19 <V453000> which brings us back to the point why to get out of the "standard" capacity which is like 30-40 units of cargo per wagon ... (pointing at 2cc or ukrs2) 12:46:03 * planetmaker likes the way I solved the prices with OpenGFX+Trains: auto-adjust to other newgrfs - or if alone use my way :-) 12:46:30 <planetmaker> but prices are easier than capacity 12:47:36 *** Zuu_ is now known as Zuu 12:48:02 *** AveiMil [~AveiMil@232.81-166-168.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 12:48:11 <AveiMil> heh 12:48:49 <planetmaker> Generally Pikka's values are IMHO a good baseline 12:49:05 <planetmaker> From which things can then be modified via parameters :-) 12:49:26 <planetmaker> Especially as Pikka has NewGRFs for nearly everything, so chances are big that you'll have at least one from him 12:50:02 <V453000> well, wagons capping 20 tons capacity are pretty low 12:50:26 <planetmaker> hm, are they THAT low? 12:50:32 <V453000> yes 12:50:39 <V453000> 20 is max 12:50:39 <TrueBrain> AveiMil: and to make it perfectly clear to you: we do not blow people here. We tend to be polite. Also, server advertising is spamming, and when asked, you should stop doing that. I hope I made myself somewhat clear on this now. 12:50:45 <planetmaker> Then I recall wrongly... I thought his were mostly somewhat like default 12:50:59 <V453000> pm: that is for UKRS 12:51:01 <V453000> not for UKRS2 12:51:17 <V453000> UKRS2 has all around 30 units of cargo per wagon, just as standard 12:51:23 <V453000> *1 12:51:24 <planetmaker> Hm, I should probably add UKRS to my checklist, too ;-) 12:51:30 <V453000> lost in the 1/2 :D 12:51:34 <planetmaker> :-) 12:51:47 <V453000> ukrs1 is imo the best newGRF, which I am sure I already said before :p 12:52:37 <planetmaker> Pikkas cost balancing wrt default prices is pretty easy: normal purchase, 4x running :-) 12:53:04 <V453000> well, how do the money make importance? :p 12:53:26 <planetmaker> It is not. But to balance sets against eachother for people like you who add all sets ;-) 12:53:51 <planetmaker> Then you can set the overall level via base costs while similar trains from different sets cost similarly 12:54:04 <V453000> thats true :) 12:54:11 <V453000> then just make similar numbers everywhere :p 12:54:29 <planetmaker> well. An AsiaStar must be more expensive than the KirbyPaul ;-) 12:55:34 <V453000> for sure :) 12:56:27 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8cba6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:56:49 <andythenorth> V453000: UKRS2 has more like 10t per wagon 12:56:58 <andythenorth> which may or may not be 10 units :P 12:57:11 <V453000> yes, capping at 20 - 20 is the most capacity 12:57:30 <V453000> for the coal hopper 12:57:52 <planetmaker> hmpf. properties must be compile time constants... 12:57:57 <planetmaker> hm. must they? 12:58:07 <planetmaker> action06 should allow to change that 12:58:14 <V453000> dunno, I just ignore UKRS2 because I a) find it ugly, and b) I dislike the capacities so far away from standards, just the same as 2cc set 13:00:55 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 13:08:11 *** green-devil [~greendevi@0603ds4-abc.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:11:59 <planetmaker> lool. The answers to Purno in the 2cctrainset thread are hilarious :-) 13:29:30 *** Jolteon [~Leftie@s4.rdlbnc.com] has joined #openttd 13:34:33 <andythenorth> meh 13:34:44 <andythenorth> it's easy to add more wagons to trains 13:34:46 <andythenorth> trams, not :( 13:42:54 *** wito [~wito@193.142.30.63] has joined #openttd 13:44:18 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d821d8c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 13:45:05 <wito> I'm having a bit of a wierd issue; when using r21333+cargodist with ECS or FIRS; no new industries appear during the course of the game 13:45:17 <wito> Did that become a setting somewhere, or is my build bad? 13:45:52 <andythenorth> wito: can you build an industry manually? 13:45:58 <wito> yes 13:46:28 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 13:46:36 <wito> might be worht mentioning that I'm generating the scenario without industries 13:47:32 <andythenorth> got towns? 13:47:58 *** Doorslammer [770b11a4@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 13:48:11 <wito> Yes. 13:48:53 <andythenorth> hmm 13:48:57 * andythenorth is stumped 13:49:47 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d821d8c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:50:13 <wito> also, Mac OS X 13:50:30 <wito> In case that matters 13:51:02 <wito> For ECS all the GRFs are loaded properly, and all of that 13:51:23 <planetmaker> wait. you use FIRS and ECS? 13:51:26 <planetmaker> that must fail 13:51:36 <planetmaker> probably both sets deactivate themselves 13:51:37 *** kenneth [kenneth@cpc1-nrte13-0-0-cust531.8-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:51:45 <andythenorth> *or* 13:51:53 <kenneth> quick question, can i launch openttd in dedicated mode on windows without switches 13:51:59 <kenneth> i am writing a monitor program 13:52:06 <kenneth> and i need to point just at openttd.exe 13:52:10 <kenneth> -D breaks my code 13:52:34 <wito> neither ECS nor FIRS spawn new industries; and I'm not running them together. (That'd be pretty silly of me) 13:52:39 <FauxFaux> Doesn't it honour the config file, kenneth? 13:52:57 <wito> prospecting, building, etc, works 13:53:27 <kenneth> can you force dedicated in openttd.cfg ? 13:53:29 <kenneth> didnt think you could 13:54:00 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:6c99:7d99:e863:ac1e] has joined #openttd 13:54:03 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:54:22 <FauxFaux> Maybe you can't and I've lost it. 13:54:30 <Rubidium> kenneth: you can 13:55:00 <Rubidium> just set the video driver to dedicated 13:55:18 <Rubidium> it might still try to play music and sounds though 13:55:49 <Rubidium> and do "screen" drawing 13:58:54 <Alberth> wito: did you set 'no industries' ? 13:59:16 <wito> Alberth: When generating the map, yes 13:59:21 <wito> or? 13:59:26 <kenneth> ah cool 13:59:32 <kenneth> thanks Rubidium 13:59:34 <wito> Am I missing some salient fact about changes in names on generation settings or something? 14:00:00 <Alberth> 'no industries' literally means 'no industries' 14:00:38 <Alberth> ie the game does not create new ones. You can fund your own though 14:01:22 <wito> Well, that does explain it 14:01:41 <wito> Is there a setting to not generate any industries but still have them turn up randomly after game start? 14:06:17 *** Arie- [~Arie@s5592da6d.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 14:06:35 <b_jonas> wito: try the scenarie editor maybe 14:06:44 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-97-226.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 14:11:11 <wito> Well, trying with low industries now; and then we'll see if that works as expected. 14:15:53 <kenneth> Ok, so im starting openttd withouth -D switch with video set to dedicated 14:15:54 <kenneth> and i get dbg: [net] [udp] could not create IPv6 socket on port []:0 (IPv6): No error 14:19:37 <kenneth> port is clearly defined in openttd.cfgb 14:19:57 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.45.7] has joined #openttd 14:22:33 <kenneth> ignore me, port forwarding, i forgot im now on the linux box 14:22:53 *** kenneth [kenneth@cpc1-nrte13-0-0-cust531.8-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:22:56 *** kenneth [kenneth@cpc1-nrte13-0-0-cust531.8-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:25:01 <wito> How often should I expect ECS industries to spawn? 14:26:46 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 14:28:58 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:6c99:7d99:e863:ac1e] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:29:09 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:6c99:7d99:e863:ac1e] has joined #openttd 14:31:00 *** kenneth [kenneth@cpc1-nrte13-0-0-cust531.8-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:31:06 *** kenneth [kenneth@cpc1-nrte13-0-0-cust531.8-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:32:46 <wito> Huh, I think I found another bug, tho'; that might actually be a bug 14:33:34 <wito> Too bad autosave was off. :( 14:39:08 *** kenneth [kenneth@cpc1-nrte13-0-0-cust531.8-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:41:46 *** kenneth [kenneth@cpc1-nrte13-0-0-cust531.8-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:13:14 *** green-devil [~greendevi@0603ds4-abc.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 15:28:08 <wito> ok, so this is a bit odd 15:28:47 <wito> When generating at low number of industries; I get exactly one of each industry type; and no industries appear during play. 15:29:20 <wito> except to replace closed industries of the same type⊠15:29:50 <andythenorth> hmm 15:30:01 <andythenorth> is http://vcs.openttd.org/ supposed to be up? 15:30:08 <andythenorth> nginx reporting bad gateway 15:30:10 <andythenorth> Rubidium: ^ 15:30:10 <wito> It's worth noting that I'm only 20-ish years in 15:31:14 <Alberth> wito: you probably should have less industries, but you get forced 1 instance of each type 15:31:28 <wito> Right 15:31:36 <Alberth> so you can build chains of industries 15:31:43 <wito> But in short; the generated industries determine how many you get? 15:31:50 <wito> That's new, isn't it? 15:32:15 <Alberth> together with the mapsize 15:32:21 <Alberth> it is not new though 15:32:34 <wito> Fairly new. 15:32:59 <wito> Previously, as late as 1.0.0(M) when playing with no industries on the board from the get-go they still spawn 15:33:24 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 15:33:30 <Alberth> yes, I modified the industry model :) 15:33:57 <wito> didn't strike you as possible to add a switch for this somewhere? :P 15:34:54 <wito> don't get me wrong; I like the possibilty of not having to deal with spawned industries at all; but still 15:35:15 <wito> It would be nice having the choice. :P 15:35:32 <planetmaker> there are sufficient switches 15:35:43 <Alberth> they are still spawning, but you have a lot of forced industries. In other words, you have way too many currently 15:35:50 <wito> Right. 15:35:53 <wito> Fair enough 15:36:11 <wito> but if I start a new map with no industries; I still want industries to spawn naturally. 15:36:22 <wito> I just like getting some of my PAX set up first between cities and whatnot. 15:36:55 <planetmaker> what stops you doing so on a map _with_ industries? 15:37:14 <planetmaker> seems that's the worst argument for that end possible 15:37:14 <wito> the _industries_ 15:37:14 <Ammler> wow, is it now possible to play a map without industries? 15:37:48 <Zuu> wito: How does they stop you? 15:37:50 <planetmaker> how does an industry stop you building pax connections? 15:37:52 <Alberth> your industry set is not really designed for the small map that you have, combined with the 'low industry' setting. 15:38:10 <wito> Zuu: They get in the way of where I want to build my train lines 15:38:16 <wito> especially on small maps, of course 15:38:21 <Zuu> Magic dynamite? 15:38:28 <Zuu> :-D 15:38:35 <wito> hmm 15:38:43 <wito> let's give that a shot and see what happens 15:38:46 <Zuu> Its found it the cheats. 15:38:54 <Zuu> Just make sure to turn it off when you not use it. 15:39:04 <Zuu> Otherwise, towns may as well make use of it. 15:39:27 <planetmaker> wouldn't matter... he doesn't want inudustries anyway... 15:40:20 <Zuu> Is it only industries that magic dynamite can destroy? Isn't there more to it that might be bad? 15:41:25 <wito> ok; industries not serviced have been bulldozed 15:41:30 <wito> let's see what happens. 15:45:37 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:45:49 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5B5F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:46:42 <Alberth> it recreates the industries you removed, they are forced to exist at least once 15:48:05 <Alberth> the previous implementation did not care about breaking chains 15:48:14 <Zuu> wito: If money is not important, you could create one instance of each industry in some corner of the map which you don't use to stop them from appearing where you don't want them. 15:48:51 <Zuu> Use some NewGRF that stops industries from dying if they aren't served. 15:51:40 <wito> Alberth: Here's the kicker: _I_ don't care about breaking chains. ;) 15:52:24 <planetmaker> Here's the kicker: _I_ don't care about you not caring 15:52:30 <wito> Heh. 15:53:02 <planetmaker> I care about the usual player who expects that the industries are usable. Which means each is present at least once 15:53:24 <planetmaker> unless defined differently by the newgrf 15:53:52 * Alberth ponders about making a wiki page with hints how to generate a useful new world 15:54:07 <planetmaker> define 'useful' ;-) 15:54:23 <Alberth> default industries do not enforce, FIRS at least does 15:54:40 <wito> ECS does too, by the looks of it. 15:55:03 <planetmaker> http://blog.openttdcoop.org/2008/11/11/creating-a-good-new-game-call-for-scenarios-and-maps/ <-- like that, Alberth ? 15:55:11 <Alberth> planetmaker: sufficiently large for industry sets, not flat-ish with arctic 15:55:11 <planetmaker> or in what direction? 15:55:19 <b_jonas> not enforce what? the last oil refinery not closing even if you don't supply it? 15:55:50 <planetmaker> that guide is of course specific to coop maps, but can be generalized 15:56:10 *** Qantouri1c [~Qantouris@d54C49238.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 15:57:33 <wito> Alberth: What would happen if I were to remove industry_cmd.cpp:1875-1878? 15:57:39 <Alberth> b_jonas: hmm, yeah there is closure protection. 15:57:44 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.45.7] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:57:55 <Alberth> you have a file with 4 less lines? :p 15:58:13 <wito> http://pastebin.com/DpiyGuEZ 15:58:19 <wito> These lines in particular 15:59:20 <b_jonas> I think the protection against closure is a feature, for often I don't transport any oil until the oil rigs appear, and by that time sometimes there's no refinery at all, so I must found one 15:59:26 <Alberth> not sure whether that is sufficient, and/or will not crash elsewehere 15:59:49 <planetmaker> I'm actually not even sure it's good to remove those :-) 16:00:12 <Alberth> it may be better to set the variable in the console, if that's possible 16:00:18 <wito> Alberth: http://pastebin.com/7XWeYvp6 like the assert here? 16:00:26 <planetmaker> but might be consistent 16:01:10 <Alberth> wito: no problem, that's protection for reading garbage, eg if you set the var to 100 or so 16:01:19 <wito> ah, ok 16:02:43 <wito> I guess there's not much for it. 16:02:49 <wito> I'll just have to try it and see. 16:03:13 *** Qantourisc [~Qantouris@d54C49D91.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:04:04 <Alberth> you should have more industries than there are forcibly created. Then spawning is not running behind, and new industries will be built 16:05:21 *** green-devil [~greendevi@0603ds4-abc.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:07:49 *** green-devil [~greendevi@0603ds4-abc.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 16:09:55 <wito> hmm 16:10:04 <wito> it seems as if removing that line alone does not indeed do the trick 16:10:08 <wito> well, those 16:10:37 <wito> owait 16:10:41 <wito> it does ^_^ 16:11:30 <wito> does the new implementation protect industries that are not being serviced if they are the last of their kind? 16:12:30 <Alberth> the old already did 16:12:44 <Alberth> the new one rebuilds them if needed 16:14:04 <wito> if the NewGRF specifies that it should, yeah? 16:16:36 <planetmaker> if the newgrf doesn't specify it shouldn't ;-) 16:19:05 <wito> right 16:19:30 <wito> but now it seems as if it works 16:20:44 <wito> I'm not familiar with the code base; how do I check a global or game setting? 16:21:14 <planetmaker> console 16:21:19 <planetmaker> set <settingname> 16:21:21 <wito> planetmaker: In code. 16:21:40 <planetmaker> they're all in settings.h 16:21:46 <planetmaker> or table/settings.h 16:22:48 <wito> is adding a hidden setting a one-line job? 16:22:56 <planetmaker> no 16:23:19 <planetmaker> it's rather like 10 + actual influence 16:24:00 <wito> yeah; OK 16:24:02 <wito> I get it. 16:29:15 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-251-33.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 16:31:27 *** DayDreamer1 [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 16:34:53 <planetmaker> @commit 21116 16:34:53 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Commit by planetmaker :: r21116 /trunk/src (5 files in 2 dirs) (2010-11-07 21:46:41 UTC) 16:34:54 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: -Add [FS#3012]: Reduce the chances to accidentially break savegames with NewGRFs 16:35:07 <planetmaker> ^ wito that is pretty much minimal effort for a new setting 16:35:53 <andythenorth> please no more industry settings 16:36:00 *** kenneth [kenneth@cpc1-nrte13-0-0-cust531.8-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:36:11 <andythenorth> it's already near-impossible to provide newgrf industry in a reasonable way 16:36:47 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:37:24 *** kenneth [kenneth@cpc1-nrte13-0-0-cust531.8-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:38:51 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-7.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 16:42:16 *** fmauneko [~fmauneko@88.166.241.226] has joined #openttd 16:45:29 <Alberth> I was not planning any new ones :) 16:52:44 <planetmaker> nor me :-) 16:57:18 <planetmaker> "because you cannot build a bridge over a mountain" <-- nice! :-) 16:58:05 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9A16.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:59:21 <planetmaker> George: maybe you would like to consider to upload LV4 to bananas? 17:02:04 <Alberth> no doubt he had other places where he wanted a tunnel :) 17:02:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.168.86] has joined #openttd 17:03:56 <planetmaker> :-) Sure enough for junctions 17:04:08 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:6c99:7d99:e863:ac1e] has quit [Quit: bye] 17:04:14 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:04:17 <planetmaker> where indeed now bridges become the slightly better option except for Lev4 maglev 17:04:30 <planetmaker> and they are already as they can be placed more freely than tunnels 17:09:52 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C4E1.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:38:01 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 17:39:07 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.45.7] has joined #openttd 18:01:33 <__ln__> ahh, -17 degrees Celsius, ~10 cm of snow 18:03:04 <Markk> :D 18:03:27 <Markk> We recently got some frost on car windows in the morning. 18:03:33 <Markk> ANd now some frost on the grass. 18:04:18 <Markk> __ln__: Where you you live ike? 18:04:21 <Markk> like* 18:04:22 <planetmaker> lik -5°C here at noon 18:04:36 <__ln__> Markk: southern Finland 18:04:43 <Markk> Ah. :) 18:05:52 <Markk> I'm from Homojen Valtakunta. 18:07:17 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.224] has joined #openttd 18:09:24 <__ln__> "great" 18:09:48 <Markk> Haha 18:10:26 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@5e0bbfb2.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 18:11:07 <Markk> I have a finnish colleague, and I asked what you're calling Sweden. :) 18:11:45 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f5f5d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:12:03 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a3be4.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:12:03 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 18:16:49 *** Doorslammer [770b11a4@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 18:19:26 <Markk> __ln__: Why is it "Great"? 18:21:22 *** fmauneko [~fmauneko@88.166.241.226] has quit [Quit: fmauneko] 18:21:38 * andythenorth sighs 18:21:44 <andythenorth> trams need costs done 'proper' 18:21:51 <andythenorth> due to changing capacity 18:21:57 <andythenorth> :| 18:25:12 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-75-247.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:26:24 <planetmaker> andythenorth: callback 18:26:31 <andythenorth> I know :| 18:26:34 <andythenorth> I'm doing it 18:26:36 <andythenorth> more defines :P 18:26:40 <Markk> Oh noes. 18:26:46 <Markk> Callback 18:26:54 <andythenorth> did me mention rv-wagons? 18:27:00 <andythenorth> I'd do whatever I could to help 18:27:07 <planetmaker> though... difficult 18:27:38 <andythenorth> doing articulated vehicles with multiple refits is fiendishly clever 18:27:40 <andythenorth> too clever 18:27:53 <planetmaker> >:-) 18:27:57 <andythenorth> I'd sooner put the work into trying to help patch the game 18:28:18 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I thought recently about a callback for refit costs. 18:28:29 <planetmaker> What is easy: refit cost depending upon the current status of the vehicle 18:28:31 <andythenorth> there isn't one already? 18:28:40 <planetmaker> what you want rather: refit cost depending upon target 18:28:55 <planetmaker> and that borders very much to tmwftlg or is even beyond 18:29:01 <Terkhen> my principal problem is that I don't know how difficult would rv-wagons be exactly because I fail to understand the difference (codewise) between articulated vehicles and wagons 18:29:04 <andythenorth> I thought of that for FISH, in connection with bulk <-> tankers 18:29:12 <andythenorth> but concluded tmwftlb 18:29:29 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I'm just adjusting running cost, which is within reach already 18:29:42 <planetmaker> If you need a CB just for refit cost: I have a nearly-done patch for that. But for the selected one... not 18:29:51 <planetmaker> running costs: easy :-) 18:29:52 <Terkhen> I guess that fixing the partial refit patch should help me in understanding that 18:29:59 <andythenorth> planetmaker nah, I don't really care about refit costs 18:30:04 <planetmaker> pew :-) 18:30:07 <andythenorth> I'm running them all around 0, it's a boring cost 18:30:08 <planetmaker> Lucky me :-P 18:30:57 <andythenorth> in expensive sets I find it annoying to scrape money to buy a train, then can't afford the refit 18:31:04 <andythenorth> it's not part of the challenge, it's just annoying 18:31:11 <planetmaker> :-) 18:31:24 <andythenorth> Terkhen: what else might help you understand it :) 18:31:25 <andythenorth> ? 18:32:00 <Terkhen> probably trying to code an articulated vehicle, to understand the method by myself 18:32:07 <Terkhen> it worked for CBs 18:32:14 <andythenorth> code in game, or newgrf? 18:32:20 <Terkhen> newgrf 18:32:23 <andythenorth> I can teach you 18:32:34 <andythenorth> it will take about two minutes :P 18:32:39 <andythenorth> do you learn that fast? 18:32:45 <planetmaker> :-D 18:32:50 <Terkhen> nope 18:33:00 <andythenorth> an arv is, in principle, just a consist of vehicles 18:33:28 <Terkhen> it takes me ages to understand nml code; I learned CBs basically by copying things already done in OpenGFX+ Trains 18:33:30 <andythenorth> I've been assuming recently that if arvs can be built by newgrf with a cb.... 18:33:39 <andythenorth> ...then they can be built in a similar way, via a GUI, with arbitrary order 18:34:25 <andythenorth> unless they really are weird and magic :P 18:35:17 <andythenorth> cb16 is articulated building instructions 18:35:24 <andythenorth> the return values are vehicle IDs 18:35:26 <planetmaker> Terkhen: but it might help to then look at the nml2nfo code from what you know how it looks in NML :-) 18:35:40 <frosch123> Terkhen: compare Vehicle::Next(), Train::GetNextVehicle() and Train::GetNextUnit() :) 18:35:40 <andythenorth> in principle arv could be built to all kinds of weird rules depending on varaction2 18:35:46 <frosch123> evening everyone btw :) 18:35:51 <Terkhen> hi frosch123 18:35:52 <andythenorth> quak etc 18:35:52 <planetmaker> quak :-) 18:36:04 <andythenorth> hmm 18:36:05 <andythenorth> nothing broke 18:36:11 * andythenorth back to cost cb 18:37:00 <fjb> Moin frosch123 18:41:01 <Terkhen> hmm... thanks frosch123, it makes sense now :) 18:41:41 * Terkhen will be using GetNextArticPart and GetFirstEnginePart to keep articulated vehicles consistent in the partial refit patch 18:42:27 <Terkhen> I was thinking about the following solution: selecting any part of an articulated vehicle always selects the complete vehicle 18:43:01 <frosch123> would be consistent with the depot gui :) 18:43:30 <Terkhen> the greatest problem is that "random" selections far away from the real selection might be confusing for the user 18:47:48 <Terkhen> hmm... another issue will be making sure that some articulated parts are not refitted twice by the command 18:55:49 * andythenorth runs smack into a problem 18:56:05 <andythenorth> road vehicle weight has to be <64t 18:56:38 <andythenorth> which presents a problem for 62t tram with 15 wagons at 4t each 18:56:56 <andythenorth> so I can't provide even slightly accurate unladen weight 18:57:09 <andythenorth> nvm 18:57:28 <Rubidium> @calc 15*4+62 18:57:28 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 122 18:57:38 <frosch123> 64t? is rv weight given in kg? 18:57:46 <Rubidium> so give it weight 22t, then at least 2 of the 3 digits is right 18:57:56 <Rubidium> frosch123: isn't it in quarter tonne units? 18:58:02 <Hirundo> yes 18:58:16 <frosch123> @calc 32768/4 18:58:16 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 8192 18:58:20 <frosch123> so 8000t 18:58:30 <frosch123> when using cb35 18:58:32 <frosch123> *36 18:58:52 * andythenorth looks up what cb36 can return 18:59:28 <andythenorth> hmm 18:59:31 <andythenorth> can't see any spec 18:59:39 <andythenorth> I assumed it was bytes only 18:59:53 <frosch123> andythenorth: in ottd cb36 is always 15bit 19:00:08 <andythenorth> hokey dokey 19:00:11 <frosch123> independent of the property size 19:00:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r21345 /trunk/src/lang/ (turkish.txt vietnamese.txt): 19:00:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 19:00:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: turkish - 2 changes by niw3 19:00:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: vietnamese - 1 changes by nglekhoi 19:00:36 * andythenorth is definitely jumping off the tmwftlb cliff here 19:01:12 <Rubidium> then you'll just land in the fresh snow 19:01:54 <andythenorth> weight can be constant for trams 19:02:14 * andythenorth wants to 1.0 HEQS 19:03:00 <Terkhen> andythenorth: all the new callbacks for RVs use the two bytes right now 19:03:25 <Terkhen> I don't know about the others, but most should too 19:04:08 <Terkhen> are you planning to change the weight of the cargo trams when you change their number of wagons? 19:04:22 *** green-devil [~greendevi@0603ds4-abc.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:04:48 *** Doorslammer [770b11a4@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:05:06 <andythenorth> Terkhen: I was 19:05:34 <andythenorth> now I'm not :P 19:05:39 <Terkhen> :) 19:06:43 <andythenorth> wow. The big tram just got *very* expensive compared to previously :o 19:08:31 <Terkhen> it makes sense... it is by far the HEQS vehicle with biggest capacity 19:08:43 <andythenorth> it also got smaller :p 19:08:56 <Terkhen> it is not very fast, but there are many slower vehicles 19:09:07 <Terkhen> what is its max capacity now? 19:09:16 <andythenorth> 300t 19:09:24 <Terkhen> it is still very big :) 19:09:35 <Terkhen> so IMO it makes sense to make it expensive 19:10:02 <andythenorth> I shall 19:10:02 <andythenorth> :) 19:11:53 <Ammler> rvs shouldn't earn much money 19:12:13 <Ammler> just very close to not losing :-) 19:12:33 *** KritiK_ [~Maxim@95-26-30-212.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:12:46 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-134-107.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:12:58 *** KritiK_ is now known as KritiK 19:18:29 *** DDR_ [~DDR@66.183.113.224] has joined #openttd 19:20:33 *** Arie- [~Arie@s5592da6d.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:21:03 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-30-212.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:21:33 <andythenorth> This returns refit_cost_1 for refit 1, and refit_cost_3 for refits 2 and 3. Which is puzzling :P 19:21:34 <andythenorth> http://pastebin.com/2WSf4VvG 19:23:58 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:24:09 *** DDR_ is now known as DDR 19:25:19 *** yorick [yorick@hurf.minds.durf.alike.shellium.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:29:07 *** Arie- [~Arie@95.98.164.63] has joined #openttd 19:29:15 *** yorick [yorick@hurf.minds.durf.alike.shellium.org] has joined #openttd 19:31:44 * andythenorth is having one of those 'just delete this not-working code' moments :| 19:33:36 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-213-49-89-67.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 19:33:50 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-47-103.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:38:41 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9A16.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:41:31 <Yexo> andythenorth: 82 42 0F FF <- you shift 15 intead of 16 bits to the right 19:41:41 <Yexo> I think it should be 82 42 10 FF 19:41:47 <andythenorth> hmm 19:42:05 <andythenorth> that means something else is broken elsewhere (this was copy and paste) 19:42:07 <andythenorth> I'll test, thanks 19:42:35 <andythenorth> yexo: solved, thanks 19:44:29 * andythenorth doesn't delete code like a baby :P 19:47:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r21346 /trunk/src/strgen/strgen.cpp: -Fix (r2592): buffer overflow in strgen for strings with very large arguments 19:47:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r21347 /trunk/src/strgen/strgen.cpp: -Cleanup: remove an unused feature from strgen and remove some ifs where we already know the result 19:48:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r21348 /trunk/src/strgen/strgen.cpp: -Fix (r21346): some compilers complain about int-uint comparisons 19:51:41 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-11-24.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 20:06:48 *** aq [~aq@188-195-65-36-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 20:07:17 *** aq is now known as Guest800 20:08:52 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 20:11:54 <andythenorth> Hirundo: the amount of smoke effect vehicles any vehicle adds could sanely be limited to <8 20:12:09 <andythenorth> there's no case for more 20:12:23 <andythenorth> I think <5 might handle even weird cases 20:17:30 <Hirundo> I think it'll add up fairly quickly 20:17:34 *** Arie- [~Arie@95.98.164.63] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:17:47 <Hirundo> Perhaps it's easier to do smoke plume 1 in tick 1, plume 2 in tick 2 etc 20:18:24 <Hirundo> Thinking about it, there must be a way to use random bits somewhere 20:19:58 <andythenorth> is there a way to do it without setting a flag? 20:20:18 <andythenorth> if high bit is used, do advanced behaviour, otherwise normal 20:20:52 <Hirundo> I think the discussion with MB shows that backwards compatibility is easily broken :) 20:21:14 <andythenorth> indeed 20:21:25 <andythenorth> does that mean it's better to use a flag or some such? 20:21:40 <Hirundo> I'd recommend that, at least for performance 20:22:22 <andythenorth> why is it better? 20:23:10 <Hirundo> What if you'd call the CB 10 of an existing grf that doesn't expect it? Would it show a smoke cloud every tick? 20:23:28 <andythenorth> ugh 20:23:30 <andythenorth> no 20:23:51 <Hirundo> ^^ so you need *something* to distinguish old/new behaviour 20:24:21 <andythenorth> ok 20:24:42 <Rubidium> grf version 8 20:25:09 <Hirundo> don't mention the word! 20:25:25 <Hirundo> I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it 20:26:57 <andythenorth> Hirundo: thanks for the smoke anyway :) It looks good for HEQS 20:27:52 <Hirundo> How does TTDP handle 8 / 15 bit callbacks at the moment? 20:36:04 <Rubidium> I think roughly how newgrf_callbacks.h says the callbacks are used; I remember frosch doing a massive review a (long) while ago 20:41:26 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 20:45:18 *** retro [~retro@125.151.broadband3.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 20:45:57 <retro> hello 20:46:09 <retro> How can I set rcon when no set in config ? 20:46:16 <retro> Without restart ? 20:48:34 <Rubidium> it/when OpenTTD is started from a cronjob? 20:48:39 <Rubidium> s/it/if/ 20:50:01 <retro> started with -f -D 20:51:08 <Rubidium> if compiled with debugging symbols you can attach the debugger to it and possibly modify it 20:52:07 <retro> nopem isn't 20:52:19 <Rubidium> otherwise maybe with editting something from /proc/*, but... those are all more prone to failure than any good way of changing a setting 20:52:41 <retro> ok 20:52:44 <retro> I'm on server. 20:53:02 <retro> When I save it locally, upload savegame 20:53:07 <retro> Can I load it on server ? 20:53:14 <Rubidium> yep 20:53:17 <retro> With rcon ? 20:53:30 <retro> I cann't find any wiki page about rcon and server administrating. 20:53:35 <retro> Wonder 20:53:59 <retro> What is admin password in config. 20:54:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21349 /trunk/docs/multiplayer.txt: -Doc: relayout and tweak the multiplayer documentation a bit; e.g. no real need to tell that the network code was rewritten in 0.3.5 20:54:51 <Rubidium> that's for remote admin, but that's more than likely an empty password and as such not enabled 20:55:05 <Rubidium> see docs/admin_network.txt for a bit more info 20:55:11 <retro> ok, thanks 20:56:37 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:01:42 <frosch123> Hirundo: http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/texts/cb.csv 21:02:04 <frosch123> the 8/15 bit callback issue mostly affects callbacks with computed results 21:02:26 <frosch123> however, i actually doubt there are any grfs which exploit 8bit callbacks 21:02:35 <retro> Rubidium: it's really small amount of informations (for server admin) 21:04:05 *** Doorslammer [770b11a4@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 21:04:27 <avdg> nice, I'm blacklisted on the openttd wiki 21:04:58 <Rubidium> huh? 21:05:04 <Rubidium> (to avdg) 21:06:01 <avdg> warning: Missing argument 4 for wfSpamBlacklistFilterMerged() in /usr/share/mediawiki_extensions/SpamBlacklist/SpamBlacklist.php on line 83 (typed over) 21:06:12 <Hirundo> frosch123: thanks for the info 21:06:48 <avdg> I can't copy the error somehow 21:08:22 <avdg> hmm, does something exists like winGrf? 21:08:59 <avdg> http://wiki.openttd.org/?title=Links 21:09:42 <andythenorth> "Money is basically what ruined the computer gaming industry" 21:09:47 <andythenorth> what a dumb statement 21:09:52 <andythenorth> oxymoron at best 21:09:57 <Rubidium> avdg: I have no clue what causes that problem 21:10:46 <frosch123> Hirundo: we changed ottd's behaviour back then to match ttdp, except for cb 36 21:10:47 <avdg> I bet there are some 'bad' links, or I'm adding too many links 21:11:08 <avdg> I'll try the version with less links 21:11:58 <avdg> hmm, that works 21:12:48 <avdg> oh, I had to read the error 21:12:54 * andythenorth forgot to eay 21:12:56 <andythenorth> eat even 21:13:03 <andythenorth> lack of food == worse spelling than usual 21:13:23 <andythenorth> should I release HEQS 0.9.6? Seeing as I've tagged it and all 21:13:37 <avdg> http://www.squidoo.com/history-of-transport-tycoon/ is blocked by the spamfilter 21:14:46 *** Arie- [~Arie@82-169-69-154.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 21:15:28 <Hirundo> frosch123: is using the high bits of CB10 expected to be a problem? 21:21:09 <frosch123> it is very unlikely that someone returns a computed result 21:21:13 <frosch123> so it is unlikely to break 21:28:27 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe8bde00-63.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 21:31:36 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f72288f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 21:45:30 <frosch123> night 21:45:34 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f5f5d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:42 *** ogre [~ogre@82.224.40.212] has joined #openttd 21:57:54 *** kenneth [kenneth@cpc1-nrte13-0-0-cust531.8-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:58:28 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 21:58:51 <andythenorth> new game time 21:58:57 <andythenorth> temperate or tropic? 22:00:22 <Rubidium> toyland! 22:01:37 *** Guest800 [~aq@188-195-65-36-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 22:01:47 <Eddi|zuHause> alpine-mod with firs-mod 22:01:53 <andythenorth> fail 22:02:45 <andythenorth> tropic I guess 22:05:31 <Eddi|zuHause> (the firs-mod is basically commenting out the check for alpine-incompatibility ;)) 22:08:38 * andythenorth wonders what RV set to use 22:08:51 <andythenorth> are there any good rv sets besides eGRVTS? 22:09:11 <Eddi|zuHause> most are incomplete... 22:09:19 <Eddi|zuHause> there are almost no truck sets 22:09:33 *** Lurimax [~quassel@68.59.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd 22:09:44 <Eddi|zuHause> everyone always provides trams and busses first 22:10:10 <andythenorth> and yet buses are all essentially the same :P 22:10:30 <Eddi|zuHause> and HEQS has no small general purpose trucks... 22:10:47 <Eddi|zuHause> so there's a gap somehow... 22:10:59 <andythenorth> indeed 22:11:03 <andythenorth> it's BANDIT shaped :P 22:11:20 <andythenorth> I need to 1.0 something before I start that though 22:12:44 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-213-49-89-67.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:13:17 <Ammler> there are some trucks in 4lv, aren't? 22:13:59 <Zuu> Yes 4 or 5 trucks or so. 22:14:09 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-167-194.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 22:14:10 <Zuu> which are refittable to any cargo. 22:14:18 <Zuu> (except for pax of course) 22:14:36 <andythenorth> does cold weather make broadband slower? 22:14:49 <andythenorth> cold fibre :P 22:15:17 <Ammler> and isn't there a czech or romanian set? 22:15:38 <Rubidium> andythenorth: yes, though socially not technically 22:15:39 <Ammler> and na, there are lots :-) 22:16:07 <andythenorth> people should go to the pub 22:16:14 <andythenorth> and stop using my bandwidth :P 22:16:26 <Prof_Frink> You should go to the pub, 22:16:31 <andythenorth> I should go to bed 22:17:08 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9A16.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:18:39 <Zuu> Though, if you have a radio link it can get worse in bad weather. 22:19:02 <Zuu> Depending on the frequency used. 22:24:49 <andythenorth> how do I get mountains in tropic? 22:24:50 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:25:32 <Ammler> SmatZ: has a patch 22:35:25 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d821d8c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:20 *** DayDreamer1 [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:37:46 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-97-226.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:38:02 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:39:36 <Ammler> [23:26] <andythenorth> how do I get mountains in tropic? <-- [23:27] <Ammler> SmatZ: has a patch 22:40:03 <andythenorth> is it easily available? 22:40:36 <Ammler> http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/tropic.diff <-- this one maybe? 22:40:43 <andythenorth> I can probably hack it myself if I can be bothered 22:41:18 <andythenorth> yeah, looks quite simple :D 22:41:27 <Ammler> :-) 22:41:38 <andythenorth> playing patched versions is often a bad idea though :P 22:41:41 <andythenorth> I end up with dead savegames 22:42:15 <Ammler> don't think this one is needed after creating the map 22:42:29 <Ammler> so quite save compatbile 22:43:43 <Ammler> mountainious tropic is like snow in temperate, why don't devs like that? ;-) 22:44:03 <Xaroth> hrnf 22:44:13 <Xaroth> my admin port lib works, now what to do with it :P 22:44:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21350 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Fix: some indentation 22:44:33 <Eddi|zuHause> am i really talking this ununderstandably? (re http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=51517&p=915896#p915896 ) 22:45:06 <Xaroth> bit vague, yes 22:46:08 <Rubidium> Ammler: because people aren't really thinking about the side effects of said changes? 22:46:35 <Rubidium> e.g. mountainous tropic means loads of tropic and little to no desert 22:46:44 <Ammler> yep 22:47:02 <Ammler> you might need to rerender the map many times 22:47:17 <Ammler> else you don't have a town which can use water 22:48:24 <Eddi|zuHause> there aren't a lot of mountains in tropic area... the Andes, Kilimandjaro, some volcanos in indonesia... 22:49:54 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:50:01 <Ammler> rocky mountains 22:50:21 *** ogre [~ogre@82.224.40.212] has quit [Quit: ouais bah a plus ouais c'est ça] 22:50:37 <Eddi|zuHause> those are not very tropical, but they're practically the same as the andes otherwise... 22:50:54 *** IPG [~chatzilla@pool-152-66-222-50.bgk.bme.hu] has joined #openttd 22:51:43 *** IPG [~chatzilla@pool-152-66-222-50.bgk.bme.hu] has quit [] 22:53:01 * avdg is looking at the slow openttd wiki that is still loading 22:53:02 <planetmaker> Atlas 22:53:35 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:b425:a8f:a3ab:2e77] has joined #openttd 22:53:38 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 22:54:39 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway... all that this needs is a tweak to the landscape variation, so you get wide low flat areas and few steep high areas mixed 22:55:21 <Rubidium> avdg: yes, the wiki is horridly slow... but I've tried a dozens of things to speed it up. Nothing seems to work reliably 22:56:02 <avdg> wikimedia *is* slow 22:56:17 <avdg> running on my pc, it can only handle 10 pages a second 22:57:22 <avdg> but mine version can handle a lot more optimalisations 22:59:16 <avdg> looks like it works again 23:02:39 <Eddi|zuHause> the software is called mediawiki 23:03:03 <avdg> yeah, I mixes both all the time (both exists) 23:03:05 <Eddi|zuHause> wikimedia is the legal entity that runs wikipedia 23:03:43 <avdg> you mean a tweaked mediawiki 23:05:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean the ones you would sue if something illegal was happening... 23:06:44 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:16:57 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:19:24 <Eddi|zuHause> furry-things-that-make-miau are somewhat inefficient fly catchers... 23:20:32 <Prof_Frink> You're using it wrong. 23:25:30 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:10 *** Lurimax [~quassel@68.59.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:08 <retro> When I compile last nightly (http://binaries.openttd.org/nightlies/trunk/r21345/openttd-trunk-r21345-source.tar.gz). 23:31:23 <retro> Revision is norev00 (it warned me during configuration). 23:31:33 <retro> How can I change it to r21345 ? 23:31:36 <retro> Some parameter ? 23:31:40 <Rubidium> use a svn checkout 23:32:02 <Rubidium> (or mercurial) 23:32:34 <Rubidium> it even saves you from downloading ~7 MiB per day 23:32:42 <retro> Rubidium: :( 23:32:47 <retro> Rubidium: I'm writing smart script. 23:32:59 <Xaroth> it clearly isn't -that- smart :P 23:33:04 <retro> I prefer git. 23:33:10 <Rubidium> then use git 23:33:14 <retro> How can I point to last nigthly revision ? 23:33:15 <Xaroth> there's also git 23:33:33 <retro> I know. 23:33:36 <Rubidium> use http://finger.openttd.org/versions.txt to get the last revision 23:33:40 <retro> But r21345 means SVN revision. 23:33:40 <Xaroth> http://wiki.openttd.org/Development:Git 23:34:08 <Xaroth> nightlies are just whatever revision the svn is at <X> time during every day 23:34:16 <Rubidium> and then your script can go through the git log to figure out what's r21345 of trunk. Compile that and the version will be magically right 23:34:35 <Rubidium> Xaroth: if <X> is a variables, then yes :) 23:34:58 <Xaroth> else I would have put in a fixed value :) 23:35:24 <retro> Xaroth: I understand. 23:35:28 <Rubidium> it could also be a substiture for a constant 23:37:23 <Xaroth> true that 23:37:36 <Rubidium> especially with OpenTTD's coding style that all capitalised = constant 23:38:08 <Xaroth> so i've noticed :P 23:40:58 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f72288f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:44:23 <retro> And any chance to write revision tag before compiling ? 23:44:58 <Xaroth> the find version script should do that 23:45:14 <retro> ./configure --revision maybe 23:45:27 <Xaroth> rev.cpp :) 23:46:05 <retro> it did own work 23:46:12 <retro> that parameter to configure script 23:48:14 <Rubidium> I really hope you're not going to use NewGRFs on your server 23:49:24 <Rubidium> oyasuminasai 23:50:39 <Xaroth> nn rubi 23:51:12 <Terkhen> good night 23:51:21 <retro> Rubidium: why ? 23:52:43 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-11-24.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:53:33 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:58:23 <avdg> gn